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Hey, hey, welcome to the Bitcoin Matrix. I'm your host, Cedric Youngelman.

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Last month, I partnered with MicroSeed officially, as this is the best seed storage hardware I have

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simple. Use the code matrix for a discount at microSeed.io. In this episode, I chat with Natalie

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Brunel, host of Coin Stories, a top-ranked Bitcoin podcast and one of the most powerful voices in

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Bitcoin education and financial media.

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Natalie opens up about her family's journey through immigration and the great financial

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crisis, her evolving views on capitalism and the American dream, and how Bitcoin has completely

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changed her relationship with time, money, and purpose.

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We also explore the role of women in Bitcoin, the deeper implications of home ownership,

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rising inequality, personal empowerment, and why she sees Bitcoin as a deeply moral technology.

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If you're looking to reconnect with the idea of financial freedom, discover how Bitcoin might reshape society, or simply hear an aspiring story of resilience and conviction, this conversation is for you.

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If you want to buy some dope Bitcoin Matrix merch, or if you want to get in touch with me, head over to thebitcoinmatrix.com.

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Also, please consider supporting the show by subscribing to the Bitcoin Matrix on the Fountain app.

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And now, let's enter the Bitcoin Matrix with Natalie Brunel.

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What is real?

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How do you define real?

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You can't jump into cash.

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Cash is trash.

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What do you do?

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You get out.

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Natalie Brunel is the host of Coin Stories, the number one Bitcoin podcast in the world.

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A leading voice in Bitcoin education and media.

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She's known for her powerful interviews, sharp storytelling, and ability to make complex financial topics relatable.

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A first-generation immigrant and former investigative journalist, Natalie brings a unique passion for uncovering truth and empowering people through knowledge.

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Her show features conversations with the most influential voices in Bitcoin and economics, consistently ranking among the top business news podcasts in the world, in the U.S.

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Natalie holds a Master of Science degree in journalism from Northwestern University and has taught communication at the University of Southern California.

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She also serves on the board of Semler Scientific, one of the largest public corporate Bitcoin treasury companies in the U.S.

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And now Natalie is coming out with her first book, Bitcoin is for Everyone.

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Why our financial system is broken and Bitcoin is the solution.

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Natalie Brunel, welcome back to the Bitcoin Matrix podcast. How are you?

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Hi, thank you so much for having me. Doing great. I'm so excited for this book to finally be out. It's been years in the making.

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Yeah, well, it's a great book. It's fantastic. I just finished reading it. And, you know, not just with the book, but you're just killing it overall, especially, I think, sort of pushing Bitcoin into mainstream consciousness and news and things like that. I think you're one of the best speakers for it in the space and especially at that wide of an audience.

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Oh, well, that's really kind of you. Thank you.

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Yeah. So I would love to get into your story a bit, you know, sort of the story of an immigrant, if you will. Do you sort of remember moving here from Poland at such a young age?

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I wish I had more memories from that time. You know, it's funny because I see my friends with kids now and I love being around them. And I think it's so sad that babies don't remember these moments that we have with them. Right.

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And so I have very few memories because I was only in Poland until we were five.

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But I do remember moving.

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I remember my flight over here to the United States.

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And I just remember my parents working so hard when I was young.

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They worked weekends.

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They worked long hours.

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My dad, I mentioned this in the book, he would get up in the middle of the night basically

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to scrape the car, the snow off the car outside of Chicago.

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And so I thought that people were wealthy if they owned a garage.

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And I went to school with a lot of people who were, I would say, like upper middle class.

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And so that really encouraged me to just work hard.

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And I felt like if I just get a good education and I work hard, I can make the American dream come true.

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And the pain point that I think happened that made me appreciate Bitcoin down the line is that I saw my family lose everything after they had worked so hard and come to this country with nothing.

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they were finally able to afford a home in the suburbs of Chicago and then they lost it in the

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great financial crisis and I just thought wow here are literally I mean 10 million families

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who lose their homes but the bankers who took all this risk they get bailed out and that really

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skewed my perception of is the American dream true is it a lie is it achievable and and then I set

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out to become a journalist and I did. And I witnessed the symptoms of what I didn't realize

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was a broken monetary system. So it was actually Bitcoin that helped me connect the dots because I

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was very aware of the problem. I very much understood the experience of the working class

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and knowing what it means to struggle and seeing the cost of everything balloon past what your

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wages and income were. And I realized that there needs to be a solution and that Bitcoin is really

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the best solution that we have. So I try to guide the reader through that process of like,

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let's get on the same page. There's a problem. Let's explain what the problem is and how we got

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here and why Bitcoin, I think, is the best solution to that problem. Yeah. No, I think one of the

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really interesting stories in the book was about your move here and how I don't think there was

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even enough bedrooms for all of you to get started in the new house. And, you know, my family, we

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just moved across country a few years ago to, in my mind, I think have a better life, but it was a

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hard move. And I moved when I was nine years old, but across town, but to move across the world,

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have to learn new languages. Maybe what was it like? Would you remember the stories of

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your grandparents and how they dealt with inflation in Poland?

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Yeah. So I share some of that in the book as well. I mean, Poland has gone through so much

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over the last 100 years and came out of communism in the nineties, just as we moved and, and things

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are drastically different today in Poland than they were when my parents were growing up, but

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it was just really difficult to save. And a lot of activity happened in an underground economy

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in communism, right? I mean, I share a story of how my grandparents had a friend who the husband

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went to America to earn money and send it back to Poland. And there was actually a special police

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that would ransack people's homes in search of cash and dollars if you were holding it because

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it was illegal. And so there's a story in the book where my grandma's friend is actually holding

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a baby when the officers come in to search the home for money because a neighbor had like ratted

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them out. And she's holding a baby and she has the money tucked into the baby's diaper. And so

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that's how she like gets away with it essentially. And, you know, people resorted to things because

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in communism, when the government controls all of the resources and controls the economy totally

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and controls the money, people don't have freedom.

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They don't have economic mobility.

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There was so much scarcity.

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Like my mom talked about how many food lines

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she would stand in and sometimes she would get

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to the front of the line and everything was gone.

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And so people don't appreciate how difficult that was

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and how lucky we are to be in a country where,

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I mean, this is why so many people risk their lives

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to come here because there's so much opportunity here.

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You can come from any background

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and you can make something of yourself.

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And I just think a lot of that hope

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And that feeling of possibility has been lost because of how broken things have gotten and how difficult it is to achieve what was once easier, especially for one income just a generation ago.

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And so I wanted the book to ultimately offer a message of hope and empowerment that we can write this ship that is sort of sinking and we can work together.

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And there's something so much better on the other side because if any of your viewers or listeners are like me, I had started to lose hope in the future.

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I was like, my parents sacrificed everything to come here.

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And I don't even know if I'm going to be able to afford to have a family or a home or retire someday.

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And I saw my parents really struggle and wonder if they made a mistake by moving here.

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And so I feel like the one thing that the average person needs today is that sense of economic empowerment and hope so that they can make better decisions,

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so that they can plan for their future, so that they can start their companies and take care of their kids.

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And I think that, you know, the way that the system is going, we know that it can't happen in the current financial system.

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Like we're just getting robbed and inflation is stealing our purchasing power and stealing our futures from us.

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And Bitcoin creates so much more opportunity and a better world for all of us.

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And that's why I see it as a calling to educate people about it.

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Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about the American dream.

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What was it like for your family going through the great financial crisis?

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Maybe how did it turn things so upside down for you and your family?

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because it seemed like they moved here.

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You know, they're trying to create maybe a better,

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more opportunities for you and themselves.

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Yes.

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My parents like really sacrificed everything to come here.

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They didn't know the language.

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They had to start from scratch.

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And I think it was really just difficult for me to see

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how much they were impacted by losing everything

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and having to start over again in their fifties now

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when it's much, much harder.

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I mean, you know, it's like they should have been thinking about

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in the next decade retiring.

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And instead, they really had to make plans for how they were going to start over and build up from filing for bankruptcy.

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And it impacted their marriage.

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And one thing that, you know, maybe some people will relate to this because I've talked to a lot of the children of immigrants or the children of foreign-born parents.

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And they experienced the same thing, which is that my parents didn't want me to see how bad it was.

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So they kept some of that from me.

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And I was kind of sheltered from seeing the worst of it because I was away and out of

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at an out of state college.

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And so when I would come home and I would see just how bad it had gotten and how it

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really took a toll on my family, it really hit me because I felt a sense of injustice

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and I felt like the promise of the American dream had been broken and I felt like it had

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been hijacked.

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And so if you follow my work, you'll know that I am very, very vocal and open about the

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fact that I actually used to be in the tax the rich movement. I really resonated with Occupy Wall

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Street. And I thought some, some force, some political entity or people need to come in there

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and redistribute the wealth because it's so unfair that the rich have gotten so rich and the poor are

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essentially paying the bill. And I just, I had to humble myself and I had to have an ego check

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because at that time I did not understand our financial system. And like so many people that I

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see today, I confused capitalism with cronyism. And the system that we have today is not capitalism

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because in a system of capitalism, we wouldn't have the banks bailed out by the taxpayer and

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we wouldn't have a system of constant inflation and manipulation of money. And so that's where

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I had to have that realization and really go on a journey of understanding how our financial system

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works, what fractional reserve banking is, who controls the money, how the supply impacts

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purchasing power.

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And those are things that I really want to teach through the book, because once you're

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empowered with that knowledge, not only do you see the world very differently, but you

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also feel like you can grab a hold of your future and you can make decisions to protect

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yourself, protect your loved ones and sort of navigate this financial system that is

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rigged against the working class.

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And so, yeah, it was a lot of lessons learned.

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But I'm grateful for the experience in the sense that it really shaped me and it lit a fire under me.

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And I was determined to help my family and really make something of myself so that I could sort of heal some of the pain that was caused by that experience.

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Yeah, for sure.

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In terms of maybe the American dream being broken and hope, where do you think the American dream stands right now for Americans and maybe new immigrants?

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Well, that's where I feel like there's an interesting dichotomy because I think that

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this country still represents one of the only places in the world where the American dream,

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which is a really universal feeling of just like you can come from any background and you

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can succeed.

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You can achieve your dreams.

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You can pursue greatness.

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I do think that this is a wonderful place for it.

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I just feel like so many people have lost hope in it and it feels broken because they don't

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have the tools.

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And the tools includes the knowledge of how the financial system works.

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Because when you really dig into it, if you understand that you can't save in cash, that

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you need to acquire hard, scarce assets, if you start to understand how to really benefit

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from the system as it is, I feel like it's in a way never been easier to get wealthy.

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But because so many people are not taught this in school or they have gotten in, you

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know, they're just in the grind.

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they're in the rat race and they feel like there is no hope. They, they, they push aside any

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opportunity to learn about how the system really works and how to empower themselves. And so they,

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they put themselves in sort of a box where they're like, no, it's not possible anymore.

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The American dream is absolutely dead And the surveys show it It like young people have no hope for the future And so I I really urge people and challenge people to not give up and not think that they doing something wrong I mean so many of us it like what am I doing wrong Am I am I crazy Am I stupid No Like my book is actually meant to say that no you not

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It's the system that is designed in a way that drains you of your purchasing power, steals your

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time from you. And there is a way to escape it. There's a way to take hold of your time and your

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energy and your future. And Bitcoin, again, I think is the best solution and the best answer

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to so many of these problems. It's not the only one. People will still invest in stocks and real

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estate and companies and all of that. But I do believe that Bitcoin is the best solution

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to the fundamental issue with our money being broken. And it is the best form of money in the

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world. Well, I agree there. And we'll get into it a little bit more. What do you think fiat or

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living in this current system has done to relationships and family building?

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When it comes to Bitcoin, the rules are simple.

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Run your own node, hold your own keys, and protect your seed phrase.

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That's where MicroSeed comes in.

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Unlike bulky backups, MicroSeed is stamped onto a tiny steel washer.

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Fireproof, waterproof, and so small you can carry it anywhere or hide it in plain sight.

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Go to MicroSeed.io and use the code MATRIX for a discount on your order.

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Well, I think that these are some of the second, third and fourth order effects of a broken monetary system.

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We often point out the symptoms and we call them the problems.

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But I actually think that the core problem is that we have a broken incentive system where we don't even know what value is anymore because we have a centralized entity, which is the central bank that gets to print money and hands it to the banks.

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By the way, the banks are the first beneficiaries of the Cantillon effect.

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and that money doesn't move downstream

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to benefit the average person

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that is working harder than ever.

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And so we see charts like the one,

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there's a very stark change in the chart

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that shows productivity versus wages and income.

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And it forks in about 1971, early 1970s,

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which you'll learn about in the book.

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And it shows that the worker has gotten more productive

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and we're giving up our time and energy,

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but we're not making more, we're actually making less.

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and Jeff Booth calls this out.

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He says, asset inflation is wage deflation.

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And so again, you really have to call out

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what has become so broken in the system

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because when someone can just print money,

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they can steal your time.

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So why do we have a system like that?

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And what I hoped to do with the book as well

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is not to take some sort of like political stance

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where I'm blaming people and these people are greedy,

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this side did this.

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I actually look at it more from a technological standpoint

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where we see how money evolves over centuries.

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And we see that there was an inherent flaw

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of the gold standard,

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which is that gold is so difficult to transport

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and settle across large distances

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and across large economies.

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So the natural answer to that was to paper over it.

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And so you have an abstraction

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and the paper represents the gold.

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And we know what banks do

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when people aren't all claiming their gold all at once.

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They start to take on leverage.

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They start to, you know, maybe issue more paper dollars than there are gold in vaults

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and reserves.

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And that's what I think created some of the problems that eventually led to the ultimate

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fiat system that we have today, where we have no tether to any real value, nothing, nothing

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that is, you know, not created by man.

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And and I think that going back to gold is the wrong decision because we know that there's

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a problem with gold and settling it and verifying it and having it settle long distances.

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and the answer is Bitcoin.

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It's something for the digital economy

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where we are all connected globally

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that gives opportunity to people all over the world

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that they can save in Satoshi by Satoshi.

242
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And I think that that gives so much hope

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in a world where a lot of people,

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no matter where they are,

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feel like it's so much harder to get by

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and to earn a living wage

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and to save for the future.

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And so I don't know if that answers your question,

249
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but it's something that I think is really important

250
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because if you know the history,

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you understand how we got here,

252
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you can appreciate the solution of how we make changes. Yeah. And definitely as we move forward,

253
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but like, where do you think we are with homeownership and how people are sort of

254
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dealing with that right now? Yeah. So, I mean, homeownership is one of the saddest statistics,

255
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right? Because it's so core to the American dream. And I think that for many people,

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especially me, when I was growing up, that was like the ultimate marker of success,

257
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like having your dream home. And everyone's dream home probably looks different. I think mine when

258
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I was growing up because I was outside of Chicago probably looked something like the home alone house,

259
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right? And if you look at something like that, I mean, that home probably costs, you know,

260
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$100,000 in the 1970s. And now today, it's probably $3 million. And you think, well,

261
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did the home suddenly get more valuable? Why was it so easy for someone, a parent,

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maybe on one income to afford that house? And today you need multiple incomes. And so that's,

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again that lesson of where does monetary inflation go when they print money and those extra units get

264
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added to the system and dilute each individual unit's purchasing power where does that money go

265
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and one of the asset classes that we've seen has been the beneficiary of money printing and

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quantitative easing has been real estate but people think that they're wealthy on paper right

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the house is suddenly worth three million but think about what comes with that maintenance costs that

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are sky high, insurance costs, property taxes that start to balloon, especially for people who are on

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a fixed income. There are so many costs that make homeownership more and more prohibitive.

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And again, if the house is now $3 million, how is someone on even a pretty solid salary going to

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enter into the housing market unless they have a massive nest egg where they can put a huge down

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payment down and interest rates have exacerbated the problem because they have increased monthly

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payments. So home ownership for so many people now feels completely out of reach. And it's an

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asset class that is mostly dominated by boomers that were lucky enough to be able to purchase

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homes when they were a lot cheaper on lower incomes. And so I think that this makes people,

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again, feel like a disconnect from the American dream. And it can be great to rent. Look, I've

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rented for the majority of my adult life, but you don't have that same sense of ownership and equity

278
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stake in the community if you don't own, right? Because you can always leave it. You're not really

279
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invested in what's happening necessarily with the community and your neighbors and taxes long term.

280
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So I think that if we all become renters, then we're literally like someone else is owning what

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we work so hard for. And so I don't like that image of the world. And I don't think that that

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represents the American dream. I hope that it becomes easier. And one thing that's great about

283
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Bitcoin is when you price homes in Bitcoin, we see deflation in action. We see it getting cheaper

284
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and cheaper and more affordable. And the price of a home has gone from like 20,000 Bitcoin down to

285
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3.5 or something for a median priced home. So I actually see the only hope for homeownership,

286
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especially for young people, is ones who embrace Bitcoin and start saving in an asset that is

287
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increasing in value by an average of around 30% a year. And then they can focus on the home as a

288
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like true utility value, right?

289
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Like this is shelter over my head.

290
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This is where I'm gonna start a family

291
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and raise a family.

292
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This is where I care about the schools.

293
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I care about my neighbors.

294
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That is the world that I envision

295
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under the Bitcoin standard.

296
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And I hope it does become easier

297
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for young people to enter the housing market

298
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because it's something that I think

299
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a lot of people dream about.

300
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Yeah, I mean, it's definitely more,

301
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home ownership is more skin in the community,

302
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skin in the game in the community.

303
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But, you know, you think about rising home prices

304
00:21:44,192 --> 00:21:49,212
comes with sort of rising home maintenance costs and expenses. Did you happen to have an experience

305
00:21:49,212 --> 00:21:54,092
this, like maybe this summer with home maintenance repairs or something that went awry? Yeah, well,

306
00:21:54,192 --> 00:22:00,592
I really wanted to help. Like I said, I'm really focused on helping my family at this point. I've

307
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been really grateful to have had the best shot here for achieving the American dream because I

308
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came when I was five. My brother was 16. It was much more tough for him. And my parents were in

309
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their late thirties, early forties, and then lost everything in the great financial crisis.

310
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So it was my goal to help my mom get a home and for me to help take care of her. And we ran into

311
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some issues with contractors, which are, which are never fun. There are so many lessons that you

312
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learn when you, when you end up, um, you know, experiencing what it's like to have a home. And,

313
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and I, I'm very grateful for all those experiences. And I just hope that Bitcoin really does help me

314
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provide for my family because I hope to have, you know, I picture a dream home in my head someday.

315
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and I hope that Bitcoin can help me get there,

316
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but I'm not there yet.

317
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And I don't want to sell my Bitcoin too early

318
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because I don't want to be in that situation

319
00:22:46,972 --> 00:22:51,152
where I think about how much the Bitcoin would be worth.

320
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But someday I hope to have my dream home,

321
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thanks to Bitcoin.

322
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What do you sort of make of what's happening

323
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with maybe trust in our society?

324
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Do you think it's on the rise or on the decline?

325
00:23:01,792 --> 00:23:03,952
No, I think trust has really broken down.

326
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I think that trust in institutions is at an all-time low.

327
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trust in congressional members and politicians is at an all-time low. And I think that's

328
00:23:12,592 --> 00:23:17,032
understandable because people aren't stupid and, you know, they're told one thing and they see

329
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something else and they experience something else. And there's a cognitive dissonance and you,

330
00:23:20,992 --> 00:23:26,192
you start to question things. And I think that's actually a sign of a healthy, you know,

331
00:23:26,212 --> 00:23:31,592
questioning society that wants something better. Um, the problem I see is that they're reaching

332
00:23:31,592 --> 00:23:35,832
for these political answers, right? Maybe something the opposite of what they currently

333
00:23:35,832 --> 00:23:41,392
have. They're just going to go maybe to another extreme just just for some sense of hope and and

334
00:23:41,392 --> 00:23:46,212
change. And the problem is it won't be fixed through politics. And we ping pong in this country

335
00:23:46,212 --> 00:23:52,412
back and forth between red and blue, left and right. And nothing gets better for the average

336
00:23:52,412 --> 00:24:00,452
person. I mean, look at that. The politicians are becoming enriched and the average working class

337
00:24:00,452 --> 00:24:05,752
person's quality of life is deteriorating. Health care costs are skyrocketing. College tuition costs

338
00:24:05,752 --> 00:24:11,392
are skyrocketing. Wages are barely ticking up. Groceries are more and more expensive. I don't

339
00:24:11,392 --> 00:24:18,052
know if anyone's tracking the stake inflation that Parker Lewis has been posting, but it's

340
00:24:18,052 --> 00:24:22,672
basically gone up like 100% over the last couple of years, but they tell us that inflation is

341
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somewhere around 3%. So when your eyes and your experiences don't match what you're being told,

342
00:24:30,072 --> 00:24:35,192
what your ears are hearing, you start to question things. You start to lose trust.

343
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And I think that the only thing that will restore trust is restoring a system that actually

344
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rewards value and creates a positive incentive loop, which is what I think Bitcoin does,

345
00:24:44,972 --> 00:24:49,812
because the current system of fiat, of money printing, rewards those with access.

346
00:24:50,112 --> 00:24:53,232
It rewards those who are politically close to the money printer.

347
00:24:53,552 --> 00:24:56,192
It rewards the entities close to the banks.

348
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And it hurts.

349
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It socializes the losses.

350
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It hurts the working class.

351
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And so I think that's why people are frustrated.

352
00:25:03,792 --> 00:25:06,512
And I want them to feel like there is hope.

353
00:25:06,632 --> 00:25:10,972
I want them to feel like we can come together and create a better system.

354
00:25:10,972 --> 00:25:13,352
But we need to address the core problem, which is the money.

355
00:25:13,472 --> 00:25:15,192
We can't have a monopoly over money.

356
00:25:15,352 --> 00:25:19,772
And I'm not talking about, you know, what we use as a medium of exchange because that

357
00:25:19,772 --> 00:25:20,432
we can debate.

358
00:25:20,432 --> 00:25:24,332
And, you know, what I use to pay for a cup of coffee, I'm not as worried about.

359
00:25:24,472 --> 00:25:28,712
What I'm really worried about is what I store my my time and energy in.

360
00:25:28,772 --> 00:25:30,432
And that's what I think Bitcoin fixes.

361
00:25:30,432 --> 00:25:36,672
We need to remove the store of value from being dollars that are printed by a small group of people that we don't elect.

362
00:25:36,972 --> 00:25:42,312
And we need a return store of value to something that is backed by math and energy, which is Bitcoin.

363
00:25:42,572 --> 00:25:44,312
I agree. I love all that.

364
00:25:44,312 --> 00:25:52,392
One thing I really want to explore maybe is how has Bitcoin changed your engagement with time as you move on to a Bitcoin standard?

365
00:25:52,772 --> 00:25:55,992
Yeah, it's completely changed my perspective on time.

366
00:25:56,312 --> 00:26:00,192
It's completely given me hope for the future.

367
00:26:00,432 --> 00:26:06,232
I sort of alluded to this earlier, but after I was a reporter for about 10 years, I mean,

368
00:26:06,312 --> 00:26:12,152
I was covering some of the worst sides of society and humanity through those stories,

369
00:26:12,352 --> 00:26:15,492
you know, mass shootings, crime, political corruption.

370
00:26:16,312 --> 00:26:19,312
It was just terrible news every single day, right?

371
00:26:19,312 --> 00:26:24,372
I was surrounded by sort of the worst sides of humans and what they do to each other.

372
00:26:25,072 --> 00:26:29,932
And I started to feel like there is no hope that things are just going to get worse and

373
00:26:29,932 --> 00:26:34,532
harder. And as I get older, it's going to be harder. And I have to figure out a way that I

374
00:26:34,532 --> 00:26:40,272
can survive that and hope for to be able to have a family and all of that. And Bitcoin,

375
00:26:40,692 --> 00:26:46,552
it took me years to really, truly understand it because I had to go from the beginning. I had to

376
00:26:46,552 --> 00:26:52,292
learn about economic theories. I had to learn what money is. I had to learn about the history of banks.

377
00:26:52,652 --> 00:26:57,592
I had to put all of this into context with the other, you know, historical lessons that I was

378
00:26:57,592 --> 00:27:05,092
taught in school. And it transformed my view into one of how I really, I can identify the core

379
00:27:05,092 --> 00:27:12,012
problem now. And we need to solve this. And the best solutions I think come from technology and

380
00:27:12,012 --> 00:27:18,292
advancements in human innovation and technology. And we've now perfectly engineered money to solve

381
00:27:18,292 --> 00:27:24,352
for and account for things that you can never solve, which are things like human greed and the

382
00:27:24,352 --> 00:27:28,772
differences between us and the fact that some people will have better skills than others and

383
00:27:28,772 --> 00:27:33,992
some people will be more greedy than others and Bitcoin levels the playing field. There's no one

384
00:27:33,992 --> 00:27:37,912
who has a special advantage. When you send a Bitcoin transaction, the Bitcoin network doesn't

385
00:27:37,912 --> 00:27:54,464
care if you a billionaire or you have two Satoshis to your name Everyone can access it equally without permission And I just saw so much hope in that in a system that no one can manipulate and and take profit from and and co for themselves and that what i think

386
00:27:54,464 --> 00:27:59,584
is so beautiful and powerful about what satoshi gave us because so many i mean you look at the

387
00:27:59,584 --> 00:28:04,304
crypto industry at large right and you don't you don't see a lot of satoshis where they just they

388
00:28:04,304 --> 00:28:08,144
create something they give it to the world and then they walk away they disappear they take no

389
00:28:08,144 --> 00:28:13,044
profit. They don't want their name attached to it. They don't want companies and foundations and

390
00:28:13,044 --> 00:28:19,004
they don't lobby presidents. You know, it's like, it's so, it's so different what Satoshi did. And,

391
00:28:19,164 --> 00:28:24,924
and I think that we're, it's such an incredible gift to, to have something like Bitcoin and to,

392
00:28:25,004 --> 00:28:31,144
to see it reach a place where it's become so diffused and powerful as a computer network,

393
00:28:31,144 --> 00:28:37,124
that it can stand the test of institutions and politics and time.

394
00:28:37,384 --> 00:28:39,664
And that's what gives me so much hope for the future.

395
00:28:39,804 --> 00:28:43,684
So now I view the future with abundance and hope and positivity.

396
00:28:43,684 --> 00:28:45,404
And that's why I want to share it with everyone,

397
00:28:45,404 --> 00:28:47,584
because there's nothing better really than that feeling.

398
00:28:48,164 --> 00:28:51,824
Sure. In terms of maybe hope, you know, I'm sort of building a better future.

399
00:28:52,044 --> 00:28:55,824
What is your take around maybe immigration right now?

400
00:28:56,404 --> 00:28:59,144
Bitcoin, in a lot of ways, dematerializes borders

401
00:28:59,144 --> 00:29:04,544
and allows us to trade with people very far away or even close by that we couldn't trade with before.

402
00:29:05,604 --> 00:29:12,364
But physical sort of voting with your feet and sort of there are a lot of opportunities that are still in the physical space,

403
00:29:12,524 --> 00:29:15,064
whether it be cities or different countries with different rules.

404
00:29:15,064 --> 00:29:22,784
Yeah, I mean, I obviously have some probably more personal and sensitive takes on immigration just because of my family's journey here.

405
00:29:22,784 --> 00:29:31,564
And I really admire my family for risking everything and coming here and not asking for anything of the country but a chance to work here.

406
00:29:31,664 --> 00:29:33,284
They didn't ask for handouts.

407
00:29:33,404 --> 00:29:34,604
They didn't ask for freebies.

408
00:29:34,864 --> 00:29:38,244
They didn't say that, oh, everyone needs to speak our language.

409
00:29:38,504 --> 00:29:38,724
No.

410
00:29:38,884 --> 00:29:43,084
Like they wanted to be American so badly and they wanted to follow the rules.

411
00:29:43,404 --> 00:29:50,724
And that's why I was so frustrated when they lost everything because it's like here are two good, hardworking people that played by all the rules

412
00:29:50,724 --> 00:29:54,744
and ended up, you know, losing everything in the GFC.

413
00:29:55,104 --> 00:29:57,504
And so with immigration, it's, again,

414
00:29:57,644 --> 00:29:59,384
there are so many people around the world

415
00:29:59,384 --> 00:30:02,024
who want to come here for a very specific reason

416
00:30:02,024 --> 00:30:04,184
because it offers so much opportunity.

417
00:30:04,584 --> 00:30:08,264
And that opportunity should not be taken for granted

418
00:30:08,264 --> 00:30:11,104
and people shouldn't feel entitled to it.

419
00:30:11,184 --> 00:30:14,164
And I think people need to be, need to follow the rules

420
00:30:14,164 --> 00:30:15,564
and they need to be good to one another

421
00:30:15,564 --> 00:30:16,924
and they need to work hard.

422
00:30:17,304 --> 00:30:19,464
That's one of the things that actually is reflected

423
00:30:19,464 --> 00:30:24,924
in Bitcoin. Like you don't just get Bitcoin handed to you. You have to earn it or expend resources.

424
00:30:25,224 --> 00:30:28,864
There's proof of work involved. And I feel like today, so many of the conversations,

425
00:30:29,244 --> 00:30:35,864
they lose that. There's almost this like, it's okay to break laws. There's a sense of entitlement.

426
00:30:36,284 --> 00:30:41,384
There's a, you need to conform to my culture. Like I really don't believe that. I don't. I

427
00:30:41,384 --> 00:30:46,884
think that this country was founded on really important principles and the founding fathers

428
00:30:46,884 --> 00:30:54,624
recognized the dangers of paper currency and of a central banking authority and warned us of this.

429
00:30:54,924 --> 00:31:00,244
And the founding fathers created a distributed, decentralized form of government to the best of

430
00:31:00,244 --> 00:31:05,764
their ability and set that up for us to create what became the greatest experiment in human

431
00:31:05,764 --> 00:31:11,344
governance. And I cherish that. I think that people should study the constitution. I feel like

432
00:31:11,344 --> 00:31:16,944
they should, um, study, you know, how laws are made. I feel like so many people don't have that

433
00:31:16,944 --> 00:31:22,724
civic responsibility anymore and they, they're not even proud to be American. And as someone who

434
00:31:22,724 --> 00:31:28,084
comes from a family that's very proud to be American, I don't understand that because there

435
00:31:28,084 --> 00:31:33,604
are so many places you could go that are far worse. And so I just, I urge people again to just

436
00:31:33,604 --> 00:31:38,624
to really know, know what they're talking about before they share things online, really study

437
00:31:38,624 --> 00:31:43,764
things. And sometimes there are no easy answers. And I know it's a topic that's wrought with a lot

438
00:31:43,764 --> 00:31:49,444
of emotion. But I think when we take the emotion away, again, like Bitcoin, for example, is a system

439
00:31:49,444 --> 00:31:55,684
of rules. And a nation needs to be a system of rules as well that we follow so that we bring out

440
00:31:55,684 --> 00:32:01,004
the best in one another as opposed to taking advantage of one another. Yeah. Wow. Yeah,

441
00:32:01,004 --> 00:32:05,884
no, I agree with that. Something I really want to ask you is how do people react when they find

442
00:32:05,884 --> 00:32:11,364
out you're a Bitcoin educator. And I'm sure you go into different circles where, you know, maybe

443
00:32:11,364 --> 00:32:16,824
you're going on to Fox and you're the Bitcoin educator amongst, you know, other economic or

444
00:32:16,824 --> 00:32:20,944
macroeconomic thinkers. And then sometimes maybe you just meet people in real life and they don't

445
00:32:20,944 --> 00:32:25,144
know what you do when they find out you're a Bitcoin educator. Yeah, it really just depends

446
00:32:25,144 --> 00:32:29,784
on the room. Sometimes I feel very welcome. Sometimes I feel like the sore thumb sticking

447
00:32:29,784 --> 00:32:35,484
out. It's just I know we're so early still and it feels really good to be early when you have

448
00:32:35,484 --> 00:32:40,884
strength in your conviction. And I do. It took me a while to get there. I didn't always feel that way.

449
00:32:41,024 --> 00:32:45,684
I definitely, at the very beginning, was worried that I was missing something or that I didn't have

450
00:32:45,684 --> 00:32:50,124
enough knowledge to understand. Just something, like, right, something about economics that I

451
00:32:50,124 --> 00:32:54,184
might be missing, something about the technology aspect that I might be missing. And I really had

452
00:32:54,184 --> 00:32:59,384
to put in the work and I learned from the best. And now I'm at a place where I feel really confident.

453
00:32:59,644 --> 00:33:04,924
And so I feel more confident walking into a room where maybe people have a different worldview and

454
00:33:04,924 --> 00:33:09,784
they reject Bitcoin and they're steadfast about it. And I'm happy to discuss it with them. And I

455
00:33:09,784 --> 00:33:14,504
feel like I have put in the work to be able to make some arguments. Certainly they're not going

456
00:33:14,504 --> 00:33:20,004
to be perfect and I'm not the most technical person, but I do believe based on all of my

457
00:33:20,004 --> 00:33:27,084
research, I know why I feel the way I feel and why I put my money in Bitcoin. And I just hope

458
00:33:27,084 --> 00:33:31,584
that I spark curiosity because at the end of the day, I think investing is really personal and

459
00:33:31,584 --> 00:33:37,684
people have different time horizons and people have different goals and wishes. And, and so,

460
00:33:37,824 --> 00:33:43,164
you know, I understand why some people might say, I'm just not ready to, to invest too much in this.

461
00:33:43,224 --> 00:33:47,024
I'm not going to put everything into it. And then I also understand why some people say,

462
00:33:47,024 --> 00:33:52,264
I'm going to put everything into Bitcoin. And, um, so I think it's really a personal decision,

463
00:33:52,264 --> 00:33:56,404
but it's been great to be one of the early educators in the space.

464
00:33:56,524 --> 00:33:59,244
Well, I think, you know, like I said earlier, I think you're doing a tremendous job. I don't

465
00:33:59,244 --> 00:34:04,404
think I've ever seen you miss, but, and you're killing it. But my question, do you feel pressure

466
00:34:04,404 --> 00:34:10,484
to maybe get the right message across? Because you might be the first time people hear about

467
00:34:10,484 --> 00:34:17,204
Bitcoin in sort of a setting that they might lend credibility to, like mainstream news or

468
00:34:17,204 --> 00:34:23,264
something like that. Oh, 100%. Yes. With a platform comes great responsibility. I've always

469
00:34:23,264 --> 00:34:28,124
taken that very, very seriously. Even with what I do as a podcast, you know, in the world of

470
00:34:28,124 --> 00:34:34,784
decentralized media and decentralized information, there's so much responsibility to make sure that

471
00:34:34,784 --> 00:34:39,564
you're putting out information that is factual so that you can build trust and people come to you

472
00:34:39,564 --> 00:34:46,764
and there's a sense of credibility and authenticity. And so I'm really grateful for my communication

473
00:34:46,764 --> 00:34:51,344
background because I feel like in many ways it prepared me for this moment where Bitcoin needs

474
00:34:51,344 --> 00:34:56,504
more communicators. It needs more storytellers. It needs more educators. And that's what I've chosen

475
00:34:56,504 --> 00:35:02,064
to do. And it's really, um, it makes it feel not like a job. It makes it feel like such a rewarding

476
00:35:02,064 --> 00:35:07,704
experience to daily hone that craft and try to improve upon it. And that's what I try to do with

477
00:35:07,704 --> 00:35:14,064
every news hit. Just like when I was a journalist, I watch it back. I critique myself. I read the

478
00:35:14,064 --> 00:35:19,464
critiques of others, which are nicer, you know, sometimes than others. And, and I try to get

479
00:35:19,464 --> 00:35:24,004
better. I try to get better. I try to fill in the gaps of my knowledge. Uh, I wish I had a perfect

480
00:35:24,004 --> 00:35:29,184
memory, right? Because you read stuff and you want to be able to retain all of it and just be able to

481
00:35:29,184 --> 00:35:34,864
say it in a moment's notice on call. But you can't. The human brain doesn't work that way. So I work

482
00:35:34,864 --> 00:35:39,924
hard to reread things and study things and just try to stay on top of all the developments because

483
00:35:39,924 --> 00:35:44,924
there are so many. And just do my best. You know, we just sometimes we get really hard on ourselves,

484
00:35:44,924 --> 00:35:49,624
but we are making progress. We've done so much. Bitcoin is at a place that I didn't expect it to

485
00:35:49,624 --> 00:35:55,184
be, which is that a president has endorsed it. And we have all of these tailwinds when it comes

486
00:35:55,184 --> 00:36:02,504
to regulations and people embracing it and the number one performing ETF. It's beat gold. It's

487
00:36:02,504 --> 00:36:07,904
beat all of the traditional asset classes in terms of inflows. And we've got a long way to go,

488
00:36:07,964 --> 00:36:11,604
but I think every year we're going to bring millions more into this movement.

489
00:36:11,904 --> 00:36:16,324
Yeah, for sure. And then maybe thinking about wealth inequality, because that seems to be

490
00:36:16,324 --> 00:36:18,424
getting worse and worse in a lot of ways.

491
00:36:18,684 --> 00:36:23,504
Should, you know, Bitcoiners, you know, might have survivor's guilt or maybe just feel guilty

492
00:36:23,504 --> 00:36:27,844
about doing well on a Bitcoin standard, whether they've been here for 10 years or they've

493
00:36:27,844 --> 00:36:30,804
been here for 10 months and they're hoping to do well.

494
00:36:30,944 --> 00:36:34,624
And maybe that comes quickly if things move quickly with price.

495
00:36:34,724 --> 00:36:38,644
I mean, do you think Bitcoiners will have a sense of guilt or should feel guilty maybe

496
00:36:38,644 --> 00:36:41,284
as things get more split in society?

497
00:36:42,144 --> 00:36:44,624
When it comes to Bitcoin, the rules are simple.

498
00:36:45,224 --> 00:36:46,224
Run your own node.

499
00:36:46,324 --> 00:36:49,604
hold your own keys, and protect your seed phrase.

500
00:36:50,224 --> 00:36:52,024
That's where MicroSeed comes in.

501
00:36:52,684 --> 00:36:57,264
Unlike bulky backups, MicroSeed is stamped onto a tiny steel washer.

502
00:36:57,964 --> 00:37:03,544
Fireproof, waterproof, and so small you can carry it anywhere or hide it in plain sight.

503
00:37:04,124 --> 00:37:09,204
Go to microseed.io and use the code MATRIX for a discount on your order.

504
00:37:10,824 --> 00:37:14,704
I don't think that anyone should feel guilty when they acquire wealth.

505
00:37:14,704 --> 00:37:20,404
I think that they should feel responsible to be of service and to be of a positive impact.

506
00:37:20,984 --> 00:37:24,684
I mean, that's where I feel like it's your business, what you do with your money.

507
00:37:24,804 --> 00:37:33,584
But I would hope that where you find the most reward and the most like calling is to be of

508
00:37:33,584 --> 00:37:36,564
service, be to provide value, to give back.

509
00:37:36,664 --> 00:37:40,744
I'm not necessarily in terms of a charity, but like building a company, building a product,

510
00:37:40,844 --> 00:37:43,884
building a service, innovating, investing in other people's ideas.

511
00:37:43,884 --> 00:37:46,924
Like, I just think there are so many ways to help each other.

512
00:37:47,044 --> 00:37:55,284
I feel like today, because of the wealth concentration and wealth equality, there is this sense of resentment toward the people at the top who have a lot.

513
00:37:55,284 --> 00:37:59,104
And I know because I was there, I used to feel this way and I do not anymore.

514
00:37:59,284 --> 00:38:02,064
I now view it more as a source of inspiration.

515
00:38:02,064 --> 00:38:05,904
I really do believe that, especially in America, anyone can make it happen.

516
00:38:06,084 --> 00:38:11,404
Anyone has the tools, especially with the Internet and how much information you have at the tip of your fingers.

517
00:38:11,404 --> 00:38:14,744
Like anyone can learn anything and achieve anything today.

518
00:38:14,864 --> 00:38:17,164
Honestly, probably easier than it was before.

519
00:38:17,344 --> 00:38:22,824
It's just so many people I think are stuck in a paradigm where they think it's not possible

520
00:38:22,824 --> 00:38:26,584
and they're stuck in their nine to five and they're not making enough and things are getting

521
00:38:26,584 --> 00:38:28,604
more expensive and they don't know how to break out.

522
00:38:28,684 --> 00:38:33,384
And the way to break out is to understand the system, is to understand what is happening,

523
00:38:33,384 --> 00:38:37,144
why income is not catching up to the price of things.

524
00:38:37,144 --> 00:38:41,704
and build your plan knowing that

525
00:38:41,704 --> 00:38:44,004
so that you can really take advantage

526
00:38:44,004 --> 00:38:46,864
of what you have and the assets that you have.

527
00:38:46,984 --> 00:38:50,324
I mean, the scarcest asset all of us have is time.

528
00:38:50,324 --> 00:38:53,264
And I think that everyone has abilities

529
00:38:53,264 --> 00:38:54,904
that they may take for granted

530
00:38:54,904 --> 00:38:57,924
that could be a positive contribution to society

531
00:38:57,924 --> 00:39:00,444
or to a company or to starting their own business.

532
00:39:00,864 --> 00:39:02,504
And I think that a Bitcoin world

533
00:39:02,504 --> 00:39:05,364
will encourage more people to think outside of the box

534
00:39:05,364 --> 00:39:08,884
and to start their own companies and provide service.

535
00:39:09,204 --> 00:39:11,704
And I think that there would actually be naturally

536
00:39:11,704 --> 00:39:14,984
less wealth concentration than there is today

537
00:39:14,984 --> 00:39:16,864
because there would be more competition.

538
00:39:17,244 --> 00:39:20,124
Because again, with Bitcoin, there is no money printer

539
00:39:20,124 --> 00:39:23,284
that can benefit a few people at the expense of everyone else.

540
00:39:24,004 --> 00:39:26,604
You actually have to work and provide value

541
00:39:26,604 --> 00:39:28,224
in order to earn your Bitcoin,

542
00:39:28,404 --> 00:39:29,984
or you have to expend resources.

543
00:39:29,984 --> 00:39:31,324
You have to mine the Bitcoin.

544
00:39:31,324 --> 00:39:33,784
You have to get sources of electricity.

545
00:39:33,784 --> 00:39:36,824
you have to play by the rules of the game.

546
00:39:37,144 --> 00:39:38,364
And the game is the same

547
00:39:38,364 --> 00:39:40,584
whether you're at the top of the pyramid or the bottom.

548
00:39:41,024 --> 00:39:42,584
And that's what I like that

549
00:39:42,584 --> 00:39:45,924
because I think that that encourages ingenuity and innovation

550
00:39:45,924 --> 00:39:47,964
and nothing will ever be equal.

551
00:39:48,284 --> 00:39:50,664
And people who think that communism and socialism

552
00:39:50,664 --> 00:39:53,044
is the answer, my family will be the first to tell you

553
00:39:53,044 --> 00:39:54,684
that's not the case.

554
00:39:54,764 --> 00:39:56,444
But if we can strive for more access

555
00:39:56,444 --> 00:39:58,784
to opportunity and education,

556
00:39:58,784 --> 00:40:00,844
I think that that's where we will have

557
00:40:00,844 --> 00:40:07,764
sort of the best and most abundant human potential and activity and interaction happen.

558
00:40:07,984 --> 00:40:08,344
Sure.

559
00:40:09,024 --> 00:40:13,264
Then maybe speaking about women's empowerment, because you're at the forefront of Bitcoin

560
00:40:13,264 --> 00:40:17,824
education, the Bitcoin industry is predominantly male, but women are beginning to join the

561
00:40:17,824 --> 00:40:19,884
financial revolution, it seems like.

562
00:40:19,944 --> 00:40:20,944
What do you see there?

563
00:40:21,044 --> 00:40:23,804
Is it resonating, your message with women?

564
00:40:24,544 --> 00:40:25,804
You're holding events.

565
00:40:25,864 --> 00:40:27,104
I see that you're out in the space.

566
00:40:27,224 --> 00:40:28,544
What can you share about that?

567
00:40:28,544 --> 00:40:51,424
Yes, this is something that I love speaking about. And I love that it's a part of my mission. I think that we are underrepresented. And I think Bitcoin is for women. It's for everyone. That's why my book's called Bitcoin is for everyone. And I really am excited to see more women find inspiration through learning about Bitcoin and find a sense of empowerment.

568
00:40:51,424 --> 00:40:57,724
And yes, I host Women of Bitcoin Brunch with my dear co-chair, Callie Bailey, every single

569
00:40:57,724 --> 00:40:58,904
year at the Bitcoin conference.

570
00:40:58,904 --> 00:41:01,704
We're already starting to plan the 2026 one.

571
00:41:01,824 --> 00:41:06,604
But I've partnered with a lot of different women in the space just to try to encourage

572
00:41:06,604 --> 00:41:11,864
more female adoption of this technology to make them feel like they're not outnumbered

573
00:41:11,864 --> 00:41:13,644
and it's not intimidating.

574
00:41:14,084 --> 00:41:19,424
Because one thing that I've noticed is that Bitcoin is, it sits at this really interesting

575
00:41:19,424 --> 00:41:27,104
intersection of economics and finance, technology, computer science, engineering, programming,

576
00:41:27,104 --> 00:41:31,744
all of these fields are very male dominated. So I feel like sometimes women, like they're peering

577
00:41:31,744 --> 00:41:44,716
in and they don feel they welcome And I just want to be a voice and a representation that they absolutely are And it been a great room to be in and table to sit at It it wonderful The men are very welcoming and I encourage more women to

578
00:41:44,836 --> 00:41:50,416
to look into it. And honestly, the book was, was partially because of that feeling, because I would

579
00:41:50,416 --> 00:41:55,076
give a lot of the books are obviously written by men. I would give them to my girlfriends and they

580
00:41:55,076 --> 00:41:59,296
wouldn't finish them. And I was like, okay, I want a book that they will actually finish, that they

581
00:41:59,296 --> 00:42:04,856
will read and feel like someone's speaking to them. And I hope that that is the case. And I

582
00:42:04,856 --> 00:42:09,916
hope that there's a large readership of women for Bitcoin is for everyone. Sure. When you mentioned

583
00:42:09,916 --> 00:42:13,996
all the fields, Bitcoin is sort of predicated on, but when you put them and they're male dominated,

584
00:42:14,076 --> 00:42:20,496
maybe when you put them all together, you kind of get this one thing. And that to me, you know,

585
00:42:20,516 --> 00:42:25,236
is a lot of what your message is about, though, around equity, justice and personal empowerment,

586
00:42:25,396 --> 00:42:29,176
Bitcoin, the whole tool together, no matter what it's sort of built on. And those are not

587
00:42:29,176 --> 00:42:33,756
gender specific and I think resonate with men and women alike. I don't want to speak for women.

588
00:42:34,156 --> 00:42:38,116
One thing, you know, I've been thinking about, though, I was at the Canadian Bitcoin conference

589
00:42:38,116 --> 00:42:42,496
and someone was speaking about sort of Bitcoin adoption. And he noticed it again. He's a male,

590
00:42:42,496 --> 00:42:47,336
but he's saying women, you know, when they get something specifically Bitcoin, kind of get it

591
00:42:47,336 --> 00:42:54,436
and move on. Maybe men want to wax poetic about it on and on and on, you know, and sort of talk

592
00:42:54,436 --> 00:42:58,476
about it and ruminate on it. But I don't know if that's true. Maybe women are getting it and they

593
00:42:58,476 --> 00:43:02,956
just sort of use it and they don't have to talk about it or, you know, kind of pontificated about

594
00:43:02,956 --> 00:43:08,996
it as much. I'm not sure there. I mean, that's interesting. It's hard for me to relate because

595
00:43:08,996 --> 00:43:16,956
all I want to do is talk about Bitcoin. So I have a hard time relating to that. And my girlfriends

596
00:43:16,956 --> 00:43:21,596
who I've gotten into Bitcoin, they all just want to talk about Bitcoin too. Once you've been orange

597
00:43:21,596 --> 00:43:27,256
pill, you can't really go back or unsee the world. But I mean, maybe I feel like it's more so that

598
00:43:27,256 --> 00:43:33,836
Bitcoin has been made to seem like a trade or like a speculation or something that's very highly

599
00:43:33,836 --> 00:43:40,056
technical. And the women in my life, they are, they really are more about like relationships,

600
00:43:40,316 --> 00:43:47,556
community building, like being, being storytellers. And that's what Bitcoin really needs of all things.

601
00:43:47,556 --> 00:43:52,856
And, and so I don't want women to think, oh, it's just a trade. And it's just something where you're

602
00:43:52,856 --> 00:43:58,056
looking at charts all day because it's not. It's something that is so much more and empowers people.

603
00:43:58,276 --> 00:44:03,176
And I think that's why the human rights angle of Bitcoin has really caught the attention of a lot

604
00:44:03,176 --> 00:44:06,896
of women. That's something that they feel really passionate about is addressing some of these

605
00:44:06,896 --> 00:44:12,776
bigger systemic issues. And that means something to them. Because again, like all the women in my

606
00:44:12,776 --> 00:44:18,396
life, they want to build community. They want to solve problems amongst people. They're all about

607
00:44:18,396 --> 00:44:24,956
people. Whereas the guys in my life are more about like things and projects. And maybe that's,

608
00:44:24,996 --> 00:44:29,296
I don't know, maybe that's just my world. But I just feel like Bitcoin needs more people,

609
00:44:29,516 --> 00:44:35,316
more women that are about building community and helping solve some of these deeper issues.

610
00:44:35,576 --> 00:44:40,636
Sure. And maybe you could tell us a little bit about Farida, Farida Nabarima from Togo.

611
00:44:40,976 --> 00:44:46,416
Yes. She's included in my human rights chapter. And it's not the first time she's been written

612
00:44:46,416 --> 00:44:51,496
about. She's an incredible freedom warrior who has been in Alex Gladstein's writings,

613
00:44:51,496 --> 00:44:55,636
and she's been very involved with the Human Rights Foundation and speaks at a lot of

614
00:44:55,636 --> 00:45:01,596
conferences worldwide. She's from Togo, and she really escaped a brutal monetary dictatorship,

615
00:45:01,596 --> 00:45:07,636
and she fled, and she's trying to educate people about Bitcoin because she knows firsthand what it

616
00:45:07,636 --> 00:45:12,516
means when a country and the people who lead it could just debase the currency overnight.

617
00:45:12,516 --> 00:45:17,536
And all of a sudden, all of the work, all the work that you saved that money in has been cut in half.

618
00:45:17,976 --> 00:45:23,176
Your time, your energy, your work has been stolen from you and you have no control and no say in it.

619
00:45:23,476 --> 00:45:29,136
And unfortunately, in some countries, including hers, this has resulted in violence, in deaths.

620
00:45:29,136 --> 00:45:32,896
And anyone who speaks out against the regime has a target on their back.

621
00:45:32,996 --> 00:45:39,896
And so her story is really powerful because it takes a lot of bravery, not just to recognize that there's something wrong and speak about it,

622
00:45:39,896 --> 00:45:45,436
but do something about it and encourage people to embrace a system that opts out of a monetary

623
00:45:45,436 --> 00:45:51,576
dictatorship. And so she sheds light in a very effective and powerful way about the issues that

624
00:45:51,576 --> 00:45:57,296
still exist today with colonialism and how it's impacted her communities and their opportunities.

625
00:45:57,896 --> 00:46:02,816
And when you look at it from the monetary angle, which none of us are taught again in school,

626
00:46:03,316 --> 00:46:09,436
you think, whoa, oh my, like, how have I not been taught this? And you feel a lot of hope in the

627
00:46:09,436 --> 00:46:15,396
sense that this could change if enough people really understand it and sort of move, transfer

628
00:46:15,396 --> 00:46:19,936
their money and their time out of the system that has created so much oppression.

629
00:46:20,456 --> 00:46:20,556
Yeah.

630
00:46:20,856 --> 00:46:22,236
And then whose story was it?

631
00:46:22,256 --> 00:46:27,196
I'm trying to find it right now, but about they had to rob a bank to get their own money

632
00:46:27,196 --> 00:46:28,776
to pay for medical.

633
00:46:29,236 --> 00:46:29,456
Yeah.

634
00:46:29,536 --> 00:46:34,736
So I think you're thinking of a story that I also echoed from Lynn Alden's Broken Money

635
00:46:34,736 --> 00:46:38,776
book, which is that there was a woman, they closed the banks in Lebanon.

636
00:46:38,776 --> 00:46:41,796
And so you literally could not access your own money.

637
00:46:41,976 --> 00:46:45,276
And she had a relative who needed health care.

638
00:46:45,396 --> 00:46:50,296
And so she literally took a gun to the bank and held up the bank to try to get her own

639
00:46:50,296 --> 00:46:50,916
money out.

640
00:46:50,996 --> 00:46:56,796
And it just it's a very dramatic anecdote about the fact that when you earn money and

641
00:46:56,796 --> 00:47:01,156
put it in the bank, is it really your money or is it the bank's money?

642
00:47:01,196 --> 00:47:03,856
And they could just shut you off and cut you off from accessing it.

643
00:47:03,856 --> 00:47:07,356
Because if you can't access your own money, what freedom do you have?

644
00:47:07,756 --> 00:47:08,016
Right.

645
00:47:08,016 --> 00:47:18,076
And that's why I really I shed light on the on the book about the importance of financial freedom and property rights, because if you don't have that, a lot of your foundational basic freedoms don't exist.

646
00:47:18,276 --> 00:47:20,696
And you can't you can't help your family.

647
00:47:20,876 --> 00:47:22,016
You can't feed yourself.

648
00:47:22,096 --> 00:47:23,076
You can't house yourself.

649
00:47:23,076 --> 00:47:24,456
So it's very important.

650
00:47:24,456 --> 00:47:29,676
And these are some of the aspects of Bitcoin that attracted really prominent names like RFK Jr.

651
00:47:29,676 --> 00:47:43,796
I mean, he was really he became active and understood Bitcoin after the Canadian trucker protest where people's bank accounts were being cut off from them simply because they were, you know, speaking out against something that the government had a different opinion on.

652
00:47:43,916 --> 00:47:46,616
And so I just think that those stories are really powerful.

653
00:47:46,616 --> 00:47:48,956
And that was one that really stuck out to me.

654
00:47:49,016 --> 00:47:54,276
But I have to lend credit to Lynn Alden because she really she informed me of that story.

655
00:47:54,276 --> 00:47:55,996
I think it was a fake gun, too.

656
00:47:56,536 --> 00:47:58,876
But it's a really powerful story.

657
00:47:58,876 --> 00:48:05,216
It resonates with sort of Silk Road and sort of being able to do what you want with your money and what you need to do.

658
00:48:05,396 --> 00:48:12,836
So I was driving home and I don't listen to, I don't love the radio, but I was listening to radio and I was one of the oldest VJs from MTV.

659
00:48:13,036 --> 00:48:14,736
She's now on the radio, I think Martha Quinn.

660
00:48:15,556 --> 00:48:27,736
And I was listening to her and one of the sort of interludes was around a study that was done around like the cost of motherhood or sort of like what the salary of motherhood would be.

661
00:48:27,736 --> 00:48:36,056
and you know so if if your husband if the husband paid the mother and the mother worked

662
00:48:36,056 --> 00:48:42,636
2 000 hours a year as a mom and what the rate what would be the sort of the salary of a mother

663
00:48:42,636 --> 00:48:46,516
based on her tasks compared to other people in the workforce and they came up with some number

664
00:48:46,516 --> 00:48:52,956
around like 180 000 before overtime and i just thought this was sort of unfortunate to sort of

665
00:48:52,956 --> 00:48:58,296
monetize life, sort of this notion of cost of living. And I think about, yeah,

666
00:48:58,896 --> 00:49:02,596
I didn't mean to cut you off. Well, you know, I mean, I don't have children yet of my own,

667
00:49:02,596 --> 00:49:08,616
but I've seen a lot of my friends struggle with the cost of childcare and it has gotten outrageous,

668
00:49:08,916 --> 00:49:16,456
right? And I do think that there's something to think about when it comes to the pressure that

669
00:49:16,456 --> 00:49:22,296
people feel in order to have everything and balance everything when the costs are just

670
00:49:22,296 --> 00:49:29,736
skyrocketing. And so women, of course, maybe they feel a natural urge and inclination to have a

671
00:49:29,736 --> 00:49:35,276
family. I certainly feel that way. How do you make sure that you can do that while also keeping your

672
00:49:35,276 --> 00:49:40,796
job? Because a lot of people can't afford to just have the father work. And maybe sometimes they want

673
00:49:40,796 --> 00:49:45,836
to work. They want to be a working mom. My mom always was a working mom. I think one of the

674
00:49:45,836 --> 00:49:51,276
things that I love about Bitcoin is it empowers you economically, allows you to save in literally

675
00:49:51,276 --> 00:49:56,416
the best savings technology ever that goes up about 30% a year. Don't mind the short-term

676
00:49:56,416 --> 00:50:00,916
volatility, really zoom out at the performance. It's been about 30 to 50% per year that it

677
00:50:00,916 --> 00:50:08,856
appreciates. And with that gives you more optionality because what I see, especially as I

678
00:50:08,856 --> 00:50:15,256
get older, is I have a lot of people in my life, especially women who are making decisions out of

679
00:50:15,256 --> 00:50:22,516
I have to, I feel obligated out of fear, out of desperation, as opposed to, I want to do this.

680
00:50:22,736 --> 00:50:28,156
So maybe some people want to have a child, but they feel like they can't afford it. Maybe some

681
00:50:28,156 --> 00:50:32,776
people want to spend more time with their child, but they feel like they can't afford it. And,

682
00:50:32,776 --> 00:50:37,736
and childcare is very, very expensive. And so again, all of these decisions, I go back to,

683
00:50:37,816 --> 00:50:41,496
this is very personal. I'm not going to sit here and say, women should do this or that.

684
00:50:41,496 --> 00:50:42,716
That is a personal decision.

685
00:50:42,876 --> 00:50:48,096
But I do think that if our money was not so broken and it just leaked purchasing power

686
00:50:48,096 --> 00:50:52,996
because they kept printing, printing, printing into oblivion, I feel like more women would

687
00:50:52,996 --> 00:50:57,236
be able to sit back for a moment and think, what do I really want?

688
00:50:58,236 --> 00:51:00,016
Can I spend more time with my child?

689
00:51:00,116 --> 00:51:01,216
How can I afford to do that?

690
00:51:01,356 --> 00:51:02,336
Can I have a child?

691
00:51:02,696 --> 00:51:04,596
How can I make financial plans for that?

692
00:51:04,836 --> 00:51:10,976
Do I want to work and do, but like, I feel like women just need more freedom to make

693
00:51:10,976 --> 00:51:16,596
those decisions. And when you feel the grinder of just like, you know, the bills got to be paid,

694
00:51:16,796 --> 00:51:21,336
you don't feel like you have any freedom and you just do the best that you can. And that's what

695
00:51:21,336 --> 00:51:25,116
most of us are doing. We're doing the best that we can. And I just want people to feel

696
00:51:25,116 --> 00:51:29,196
more empowerment. And if they had a form of money that allowed them to save for the future,

697
00:51:29,196 --> 00:51:34,456
I think that they would have less pressure to make some of these difficult decisions

698
00:51:34,456 --> 00:51:40,376
and be able to do maybe more for their family and have bigger families if they had a money that they

699
00:51:40,376 --> 00:51:46,176
could rely on. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I felt that sort of economics probably delayed sort of

700
00:51:46,176 --> 00:51:50,996
my outlook towards family building when I was in my 20s and thinking about what I could afford and

701
00:51:50,996 --> 00:51:54,796
really more thinking about what I couldn't afford and how I was going to have to push things off

702
00:51:54,796 --> 00:51:59,496
until I could afford the things I needed or wanted to put all that together. And some of that's

703
00:51:59,496 --> 00:52:04,096
cultural, you know, what you see in sort of music and TV and film. But I think it comes from the

704
00:52:04,096 --> 00:52:07,156
money first. You know, what would you say to people if they they wanted to know if they were

705
00:52:07,156 --> 00:52:13,656
too late to Bitcoin. It's over 100K. The ETFs are here. They're already the most successful ETF in

706
00:52:13,656 --> 00:52:18,596
history in terms of adoption and rate of growth. What would you say if they were worried they were

707
00:52:18,596 --> 00:52:21,576
too late? Yeah, you just made me think of something. So I'm just going to put a bow on

708
00:52:21,576 --> 00:52:27,636
the last question too. Something that I also have changed my perspective on. When I was younger,

709
00:52:28,236 --> 00:52:32,756
all I wanted is just the career, the career, the career, the career is everything. I put everything

710
00:52:32,756 --> 00:52:39,916
into it. I didn't think at all about marriage and family and all of that. And what I've realized in

711
00:52:39,916 --> 00:52:47,016
the last few years is the people around you, whether you have a family in the form of children

712
00:52:47,016 --> 00:52:53,616
or even just like your friendships, the community that you create, your loved ones, those are the

713
00:52:53,616 --> 00:52:58,216
people that are going to be there for you in your old age. Those are the stories you're going to

714
00:52:58,216 --> 00:53:03,656
remember, those are the experiences that will carry you through your life. Not necessarily,

715
00:53:03,996 --> 00:53:08,296
you know, the corporate job that you're sitting at where your boss, if you quit, would replace you

716
00:53:08,296 --> 00:53:13,436
in two days. Right. And I think so many women have been programmed that like the thing to do

717
00:53:13,436 --> 00:53:18,176
is you got to be the working boss. You got to be the boss lady. You got to, you know, climb the

718
00:53:18,176 --> 00:53:22,916
corporate ladder. You got to break the glass ceiling. And I just wonder if we were in a system

719
00:53:22,916 --> 00:53:28,976
of hard money that allowed us to save for the future, would women really feel that pressure

720
00:53:28,976 --> 00:53:33,336
so much? Or would they work because they have a passion in something and they want to be of

721
00:53:33,336 --> 00:53:37,516
service in a certain industry and provide value? Or would they decide that, hey, you know what?

722
00:53:37,516 --> 00:53:42,676
I actually love the idea of being at home with my kids and having a family. Or I just feel like,

723
00:53:42,756 --> 00:53:48,896
again, the more options we have, the better. And we would have more options if we had better money.

724
00:53:48,896 --> 00:53:52,576
So I just want to say that second on we're super early.

725
00:53:52,836 --> 00:53:54,796
And that's that's a huge message of the book.

726
00:53:54,836 --> 00:53:55,976
Like people think that they're late.

727
00:53:56,456 --> 00:54:02,236
Bitcoin is a two trillion dollar asset class within a pool of like think of the money of

728
00:54:02,236 --> 00:54:05,076
the world representing almost one quadrillion.

729
00:54:05,676 --> 00:54:10,176
So I think the estimates are somewhere between 900 trillion now and one quadrillion, which

730
00:54:10,176 --> 00:54:12,896
is like, whoa, we can't even fathom those numbers.

731
00:54:12,976 --> 00:54:16,976
People throw around billions and trillions today, but there's a huge difference between

732
00:54:16,976 --> 00:54:17,616
each one.

733
00:54:17,616 --> 00:54:25,836
And assets like real estate and bonds and equities represent hundreds of trillions of dollars worth of value.

734
00:54:26,556 --> 00:54:30,336
So think about $2 trillion competing with hundreds of trillions.

735
00:54:30,576 --> 00:54:37,376
As Bitcoin grows and eats into these other asset classes, it has tremendous upside.

736
00:54:37,376 --> 00:54:39,876
I mean, you're at a $2 trillion asset class.

737
00:54:39,876 --> 00:54:46,376
to enter now, the potential is not five times, not 10 times, but in my opinion,

738
00:54:46,916 --> 00:54:51,956
a hundred times from where we are here. I can't say that about any other asset or any other form

739
00:54:51,956 --> 00:54:55,516
of investment. And that's why I think it's so imperative that we tell people about Bitcoin

740
00:54:55,516 --> 00:55:00,456
because all of us are very early. Yeah. The only bow I'll put back on the last point is I think

741
00:55:00,456 --> 00:55:05,016
growing up before I think inflation really took hold, I think boomers were kind of telling my

742
00:55:05,016 --> 00:55:07,476
generation, don't start a family so young.

743
00:55:07,596 --> 00:55:08,816
Focus on your career.

744
00:55:09,056 --> 00:55:09,956
Focus on yourself.

745
00:55:10,216 --> 00:55:12,656
And I don't know if that was good advice.

746
00:55:13,636 --> 00:55:17,876
And I think economics also played a role by the time my generation got a little older

747
00:55:17,876 --> 00:55:20,316
that the economics were, for every generation, get harder.

748
00:55:20,756 --> 00:55:23,096
But I think there was a cultural aspect of it, too.

749
00:55:23,896 --> 00:55:25,776
And a lot of messaging from that side.

750
00:55:25,896 --> 00:55:28,436
But I just have a couple more questions here.

751
00:55:28,436 --> 00:55:31,816
If you could orange pill anyone in the world, who would it be and why?

752
00:55:32,196 --> 00:55:32,656
Oh, wow.

753
00:55:32,688 --> 00:55:34,868
That's a really, that's a good question.

754
00:55:36,088 --> 00:55:38,908
I think it's important to Orange Pill,

755
00:55:39,068 --> 00:55:40,848
the people who have the most influence.

756
00:55:40,848 --> 00:55:43,928
So there would be a lot of people on that list

757
00:55:43,928 --> 00:55:45,588
because, I mean, today,

758
00:55:45,988 --> 00:55:50,808
some people consider followers an online form of currency, right?

759
00:55:50,908 --> 00:55:52,948
Like the more people you can influence,

760
00:55:52,948 --> 00:55:54,808
that would do a lot of good for Bitcoin.

761
00:55:55,068 --> 00:55:57,708
So I would say that the most important people to Orange Pill

762
00:55:57,708 --> 00:55:59,488
are the people with the biggest platforms

763
00:55:59,488 --> 00:56:01,948
who have the people who follow them.

764
00:56:02,688 --> 00:56:10,848
the most. So, you know, I think political figures, tech leaders, like the CEOs of these

765
00:56:10,848 --> 00:56:16,608
major corporations who could embrace Bitcoin for their companies, entertainers that have big

766
00:56:16,608 --> 00:56:20,908
platforms, really anyone with a big voice. I think those are the people I'd want the most

767
00:56:20,908 --> 00:56:28,528
orange pill. But if I had to pick one person, gosh, that's hard. I would say, I don't know.

768
00:56:28,528 --> 00:56:33,128
I mean, again, I think about some of the big, big podcast hosts.

769
00:56:33,768 --> 00:56:37,468
Joe Rogan's a Bitcoiner, but I don't think he's enough of a Bitcoin.

770
00:56:37,568 --> 00:56:39,008
I wish he would cover it more.

771
00:56:39,208 --> 00:56:42,728
So I wish Joe Rogan was really, really orange-pilled.

772
00:56:42,948 --> 00:56:45,728
I think Elon Musk is almost there.

773
00:56:46,288 --> 00:56:49,868
I wish Elon Musk was hardcore wanting to talk about Bitcoin all the time.

774
00:56:49,928 --> 00:56:50,588
That would be fun.

775
00:56:51,028 --> 00:56:51,988
But we'll get there.

776
00:56:52,168 --> 00:56:52,748
We'll get everyone.

777
00:56:52,948 --> 00:56:53,108
Sure, let's see.

778
00:56:53,488 --> 00:56:55,328
And then do you run your own node?

779
00:56:55,708 --> 00:56:56,668
I do, yes.

780
00:56:56,668 --> 00:56:59,488
And I'm so grateful that Sam actually helped me.

781
00:56:59,608 --> 00:57:01,088
A lot of you might know Sam Callahan.

782
00:57:01,688 --> 00:57:07,648
He helped me set up my Raspberry Pi and I run a node and I'm very happy that I do.

783
00:57:07,768 --> 00:57:25,192
I was so intimidated when I first started and he made me realize how easy it is So anyone can do it I write in my book that anyone can do Running the same reference client or is there dissent in the household There not there not dissent There not dissent No Um and this is an area that I think

784
00:57:25,292 --> 00:57:31,212
again, is like more, more personal. I respect, I respect the community and in the differences

785
00:57:31,212 --> 00:57:35,472
that we have right now. My opinion might change as I do more research, but yeah.

786
00:57:35,692 --> 00:57:39,112
All right. Well, I loved the book. Thank you so much for writing it and sharing it.

787
00:57:39,112 --> 00:57:42,752
I'll leave it to you for any parting words and let people know where they can find you and your work.

788
00:57:43,092 --> 00:57:44,232
Yeah, just thank you so much.

789
00:57:44,492 --> 00:57:47,692
Again, I just really want to get this book out to as many people as possible,

790
00:57:47,692 --> 00:57:52,132
especially those who are skeptical or feel like Bitcoin's not for them.

791
00:57:52,252 --> 00:57:55,412
I want them to feel like this is a really easy introduction.

792
00:57:55,712 --> 00:57:58,912
So please pre-order my book, Bitcoin is for Everyone.

793
00:57:59,352 --> 00:58:03,792
And you can check out my show, Coin Stories, on every podcasting platform.

794
00:58:03,972 --> 00:58:05,952
I do a weekly news update called The News Block.

795
00:58:05,952 --> 00:58:09,452
I have a free newsletter for that, thenewsblock.substack.com.

796
00:58:09,972 --> 00:58:12,672
And yeah, catch me on Twitter, X, all of it.

797
00:58:12,912 --> 00:58:13,972
Thank you so much, Natalie.

798
00:58:14,052 --> 00:58:14,552
It's been a pleasure.

799
00:58:14,812 --> 00:58:15,392
Thanks so much.

800
00:58:15,712 --> 00:58:18,672
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of The Bitcoin Matrix.

801
00:58:18,952 --> 00:58:23,492
If you enjoyed the conversation, don't forget to like, subscribe, and drop a comment below

802
00:58:23,492 --> 00:58:25,272
with any questions or thoughts you may have.

803
00:58:25,512 --> 00:58:26,712
We'd love to hear from you.

804
00:58:27,052 --> 00:58:31,252
You can support the show by checking out our sponsors and affiliate links in the description.

805
00:58:31,252 --> 00:58:36,032
It helps keep bringing you great content while connecting you with awesome products that I believe in.

806
00:58:36,272 --> 00:58:40,052
Share this episodes with your friends, family, or anyone curious about Bitcoin.

807
00:58:40,472 --> 00:58:42,532
And let's keep growing this community together.

808
00:58:42,832 --> 00:58:46,332
Stay curious, keep stacking, and I'll catch you in the next one.