Hey, hey, welcome back to the Bitcoin Matrix. I'm your host, Cedric Youngelman. The Bitcoin
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Today's guest is someone who didn't find Bitcoin through a white paper or a Reddit thread.
He found it the hard way. After watching Lebanese banks steal his life savings overnight,
Tony Yazbek went from cybersecurity veteran to full-on Bitcoin sovereignty advocate.
Now as co-founder of The Bitcoin Way, he's on a mission to make sure what happened to him
doesn't happen to you. This conversation gets real. We're talking bank collapses,
self-custody, opting out of the system entirely, and why proper Bitcoin education might be the
most important thing you do in 2026. If you're getting value from the show, the best way to
support us is to subscribe on Fountain. Five bucks a month gets you early ad-free episodes and
membership perks. Drop a five-star review, share the Bitcoin Matrix with a friend, grab some merch,
or hit me up at thebitcoinmatrix.com. Every sponsor and affiliate on the Bitcoin Matrix
is something I personally use and believe in. So when you support them, you're helping keep
the Bitcoin matrix independent. Love this community. Appreciate you all. And now let's
enter the Bitcoin matrix with Tony Yazbek. What is real? How do you define real? You can't jump
into cash. Cash is trash. What do you do? You get out.
Tony Azbeck, welcome to the Bitcoin Matrix. How are you?
I'm fantastic, Cedric. Thank you for having me, man. Very, very excited to get into this
conversation. Yeah, me too. You're doing tremendous things in the space. But, you know,
before we get into all that, how did you find Bitcoin?
The most horrific way, man. You know, I wish I could say I just, you know, opened up the white paper one day and the light bulb just went off. But the truth about this is very far away from that.
I just I came into Bitcoin after a horrific collapse in Lebanon when I woke up one morning
to find out that the banks had have stolen all my life savings so I literally you know woke up
homeless with no options no one to call and no idea what the next move is going to be and so I
went through a very dark period of my life trying to figure that out because you know like literally
overnight, we were catapulted back into the Stone Age, where survival was, you know, based on instinct
and barter. You had to, you know, trade service for service. And those services were very primal.
I mean, my tech skills, cybersecurity were worth absolutely nothing in a world of turmoil and chaos
when people, you know, they had to find out where to eat.
And so, you know, you had to do whatever it is that came instinctively
and that was at your disposal in order to survive,
especially, you know, if you had dependents relying on you,
well, man, you had to figure something out and fast
in a world that was completely unstable and literally insane.
So that's what brought me into Bitcoin.
Nine months, you know, after dealing with that darkness,
I stumbled across a Andreas Antonopoulos video.
And that, I think, for the first time during, you know, that those nine months that I smiled again.
And, you know, the journey took off, you know, from there.
I dove deep down the rabbit hole.
I learned, you know, the truth about the money that we're using, you know, the lies we've been told, who's responsible for the collapse.
You know, I was able to put names behind, you know, the horror show that, you know, we went through.
And once you discover all of this, your lens on the world changes forever.
And so when I decided to rise back up, I made the very, very difficult decision to do this on a platform where the chances of exploitation are zero.
And even though that was the path that the fewest people have taken, I knew deep in my heart that that was going to be the right path forward.
and you fast forward to today, thankfully it was the right bet.
So that's really what brought me into Bitcoin to warn others
who have not yet experienced their Lebanon moment
that Lebanon was not an isolated case.
It wasn't the exception, it was really the rule
because the mechanics of that collapse is global
and it's coming to every city of every country at some point.
So when we eventually put together the Bitcoin way
is to help people get into Bitcoin the proper way.
Because since it comes from the world of tech,
a lot of people shy away from it
and have a lot of misunderstandings around it.
So that's like the TLDR of what brought me here.
Well, that's a lot to unpack.
I want to go more than the TLDR,
especially on the Lebanon moment.
I mean, I think that's how I would describe
how it impacted my life.
I saw it on X and I heard about it
and it was a moment in time for me,
but I don't know what it really means
to go through sort of the mechanics of a financial collapse.
It's hard to fathom someone being retired
and then being homeless within a very quick period of time.
So no one really prepares you for that moment, man.
It's very hard to describe other than a horror show
that you've never seen before
because people are running on instinct
and they're not thinking rationally
and they're doing, you know, whatever comes to mind.
I'll give you like a brief example, just one of like really thousands. When the food runs out in
your kitchen, where do you replenish it from, right? Like if you have kids, you know, what's
for lunch and what's for dinner? I have no idea. So your gut move is to go find food, but the
supermarkets are closed. And even if they weren't, how are you going to pay for the food? Your cards
don't work. There's no money in the ATMs. The banks are long gone and nobody's picking up the
phone anywhere. So instinctively, you're going to go and like steal the food, right? Like that would
be like your next logical move. Except when you go to do that, you realize that there's like 10,000
people that have also had that brilliant idea before you and are waiting already there, looting
guns, knives, hammers, screwdrivers, you name it. And so when you see this, you're like, you know
what the you know a diet sounds good just about now because you know that that that bag of toast
is gonna potentially cost me my life and so you have to figure out other ways to get that food
and so this is just like a a preview of the many things that this shit show looks like
and of course i'm not gonna get into like uh all the the horrific stories because there are many
But the point here is not to doom and gloom this message, but to really highlight the reality of when fiat money fails, everything collapses very fast.
And we're starting to see this now again in Iran.
Iran is actually worse than Lebanon.
As bad as I thought we had it, they have it much, much worse.
And so every place will react differently.
My biggest fear is that the United States experiences a Lebanon moment.
And the main reason for that fear is that Lebanon doesn't have 500 million privately owned assault weapons.
The United States Constitution allows people to be bearers of guns, right?
So when these folks get locked out of their bank account or worse, realize that their purchasing power has been depleted, reduced to zero, what happens, right?
I mean, there's no logical conversation you can have with someone in that predicament.
they're going to react first think later and when you have that reaction you know uh equipped with
guns or whatever else you know is at their disposal that again is that horror show that
no one has seen before unless you've lived in that situation this is what the uh the people
stuck in iran are unfortunately going through right now so um very bad news you know but again
all of this is like the cause of all this now is known it's broken money nothing else will fund
this type of evil and get to these types of result unless it's like a massive ponzi that
has finally collapsed which was the case in uh in beirut in beirut lebanon and now in iran and god
knows what the next country is going to be like but tiktok it's i am 100 convinced it's coming
everywhere. And so we're trying to push out as much education and warning in order to make folks
still living in, you know, relatively comfortable, financially privileged countries that don't hide
behind this delusion, thinking that you're safe. You're not safe. It's just you might be the last
one to be hit, but your turn is coming. So, yeah, let's try to focus a little bit on the positive.
Was there any, maybe around community, working with your friends and families and neighbors?
in nine months before you discovered even Bitcoin and even after.
But can you sort of relate like how maybe people came together
to figure things out in this chaotic, uncertain environment?
Absolutely. You nailed it.
It was a very, very powerful sense of bonding among strangers.
And of course, some people that you know that, you know,
we're living within your proximity.
Everybody was helping each other out, you know,
like doing things you never thought you would ever be doing.
But just because, you know, the situation called for it. And not only was it survival tactics that were important, it was also self-defense. Because in a situation of complete mayhem, you know, the next thing that, you know, pops up like a bad weed are the gangs that, you know, all of a sudden now want to claim, you know, their territory.
and the skills these guys come with is you know murder theft all that fun stuff so how do you
protect yourself against against that a lot of people don't know how to how to fight or how to
you know engage in such situations because they've never had to before but now this was a reality like
almost at every block so there was a lot of things that had to be learned very quickly you know so
So like the strongest, you know, bonded together for certain things, protected those, you know, that were a little weaker.
And then, you know, everybody had their strong points.
And collectively, we figured it out.
We figured something out to take us to the next day and the next week and what have you.
But it wasn't an easy journey, man.
It was a very horrific one.
And like I tell this to everyone, sometimes it's almost like a miracle that I'm still sitting here, you know, doing what I do at the Bitcoin way and just in general sitting on podcasts.
considering where my mental health was and my physical, you know, being was, you know, just a
few years ago. And so I don't want to see anyone go through anything remotely close to that. But
if you want to discover who you are, this is the best way to figure that out because you are stripped
down to your DNA. There's nothing left. And so this is how you discover what you're made of,
And of course, the strong survive and the weak don't, unfortunately.
Yeah, maybe talking about what people are made of or what people need to do more like, maybe frame it that way.
What do people can do to improve their individual physical and mental self-sovereignty beyond Bitcoin and self-custody, which we'll talk about?
What do you mean Self goes I think beyond just stacking sats probably In a situation in Lebanon you know maybe there were people around you not the many
but the few who somehow through some sort of form of luck or skill came through this
financial collapse.
Maybe a few of them were because they were in this commodity business.
They did well or this service or they were in this gang or they had Bitcoin or something
else.
But you still have to kind of live in the physical environment.
and have, like you were saying, mental health to come back or rise from these things.
Yeah, man, this is it. It was, you know, human support.
You know, everybody had to support one another.
Just when somebody thought they were going to break down and give up,
you know, you'd have others rally and, you know, try to comfort them
and lift them up and boost them, try to distract, you know,
their attention from all these dark thoughts and what have you.
But it's very difficult.
I mean, there are a lot of folks that I grew up with that I knew that are unfortunately not here anymore because of everything that unfolded.
I don't talk about this too much because, you know, like there's no point of it.
It's too dark and it's not going to make much of a difference.
Just, you know, bringing back all these dark memories.
But, you know, people learned many skills.
I learned many skills.
I learned how to cut hair.
You know, I learned a little bit of plumbing.
I learned how to change tires you know like become a bit of a mechanic like there's a lot
of things that you think you will never do I'm a tech guy like I have no business changing tires
or learning how to fix a car engine or you know turning such tools into different you know
different utility factors right but you learn all of these things because you know it's survival
tactics like how to turn a wrench into a weapon type of thing you know like how to use that for
that people had to adapt like we had to become chameleons in everyday life in order to survive
because you never knew when the next threat was going to come and in those first months there was
no bitcoin anywhere like nobody nobody knew this thing even existed it was find me cash in order
to trade it for a piece of bread or some fruits and vegetables to feed my kids it was like imminent
needs. Nobody was thinking about saving or investing or anything. It's like, I need to eat
by 6 p.m. Let's figure something out to get something and then we'll split it amongst everybody
that's here. That's really how everybody was rallying together. And so nine months of hell.
And then when I discovered, when one day I just sat down in front of the computer again
and just decided just to disconnect and I came across that video. I don't know, man,
like I think my past career just, you know, came back to me and it's just, you know, I just felt
alive for like those 30 seconds. And I had to watch that video many times because, you know,
like in my mental state, I couldn't trust like if I was being delusional, right? Because I was so
desperate that anything sounded like good news. And so this is why, you know, I sat down, watched
it several times and then, you know, then it just clicked. And that's when, you know, the whole
the whole rabbit hole uh unfolded but you know starting your life on a bitcoin standard when
everybody around you has no idea what that is and has no interest in learning about anything except
where the next meal is coming from that is you know like trying to run up mount everest you know
when you've had no training whatsoever so it's uh but you know i'm living proof that even under the
most seemingly impossible conditions when there's a strong enough will bit by bit you can lift
yourself up and you can rebuild your life and once you do you become a completely different human
being i mean like tony 1.0 before the collapse it's not the same person sitting in front of you
here having this this conversation i was very successful in the past like fiat successful very
successful. I ran three companies, extremely successful. I was essentially retired. So I was
living the life of someone who's not worried about money. And then you go from that to what I just
described, flatlined, homeless, having to figure things that I've never done before out. And so
now money means nothing to me, right? Like now when I discovered all of this, I'm completely
desensitized to money. I don't give a shit about money at all. Even with the work that I do now,
I don't do it to get rich. I have a sense of purpose now that goes way above and beyond
any form of currency that you can possibly offer me. My mission here, my currency is the
separation of money and state. I know who's responsible for these attacks. I know who's
responsible for the evil in this world. And I'm going to do whatever I can in order to put an end
to it, if I can. And the way I'm going to do this is by arming as many people as possible
with the knowledge and intellect to protect themselves and opt out of the very system
that is causing all of this, right? We can't go to war with these people. This is an octopus that
has grown far and wide beyond anybody's capabilities, like physical capabilities.
So the only way to defeat it is to render it irrelevant. And the only way I know how to do this is by refusing to use its product. You opt out of the dollar, you opt out of the fiat currency, you pretend it doesn't exist now that we have a viable option that allows us to do this.
so as of 2009 that entire world became optional as far as i'm concerned you don't have to live in it
of course it's it's a bit of a workout depending on where you are to get to this level of conviction
but it is possible and i and millions of other people are living proof of it and once you live
in that new future nothing phases you anymore you know like you develop the sense of a fearlessness
because now you know that they can't confiscate you.
They can't shut you down.
They can't debase you.
You don't give a shit about what they're doing.
Whatever they say, whatever they babble about,
whatever they try to regulate, it doesn't matter.
You are no longer living in that world
when you understand Bitcoin truly for its essence
and you just decide to walk forward, right?
So there's a lot to unpack here,
but really like I'm trying to sum up the transition
between someone who has done really well in a fiat world,
collapsed through reasons that have nothing to do with his failure,
and then rebuilt himself in a way that that past can no longer affect them.
Yeah, I'm really trying to process all that.
You know, the ride and the journey of being very successful
in the way everyone sort of denominates or sort of categorizes.
I mean, we can call it the fiat world, but that's everyone else's world for the most part.
I mean, Bitcoin adoption is very low.
Of course.
And I can't imagine a fall from grace.
Even of not my own fault, I'd still have really, you know, the weight of the world on my shoulders.
And my pride would probably be wounded.
And I get sort of the idea of like money means nothing now because we're in this weird economy or being that traditional world.
but it just, it can screw with people
and through no fault of your own,
you're in this position.
And now you, but then you find Bitcoin.
I, but to go from finding Bitcoin on a video,
it sounds like to the mission
and conviction you have now.
I mean, I kind of want to hear more about that journey,
but I can only imagine also,
I'm sorry to interrupt,
but like, I can only imagine then my family being like,
wow, we were whatever you want to call it.
Let's call it rich.
Now we're poor.
And now we're on our way back to stabilization again.
And I'm, dad, this is kind of crazy what you're talking about.
We just want to be back to normal.
Like now you're talking about not even going back to normal when we get upright.
You're talking about taking on the world and this new mission and Bitcoin standard.
And what does that mean?
You know, and were they on board?
Yeah, it's really interesting.
Man, there's no normal anymore when your life collapses in such a way.
If you survive it, there's no way you remain the same human being.
You know, like there's a saying that when you die, you are free, right?
So back then I died.
And when that happened, I became free.
Free of all the lies and the bullshit that I've been fed since the day I was born.
This is something that to this day, too many people don't comprehend.
They don't understand what money is.
They don't understand who's behind the money that they're slaving for.
they don't understand that they're being exploited on a daily basis no matter where you are in this
world if you're using that product like for them like this sounds like crazy talk because their
turn hasn't come yet right i mean a lot of people complain high prices you know too much taxes blah
blah all that shit but that belongs to a club that has created this system specifically for the
exploitation of everyone that uses it. It's not by fluke that things are expensive, that, you know,
everybody knows what the word inflation means now, all of a sudden, it's like 20 years ago,
nobody even knew that word, right? Now everybody talks about it because it's like inflation,
inflation, inflation, because now they can't buy anything, right? So pain causes you to learn
things very, very quickly. And so once you understand who is fueling this world of pain
and evil, that rabbit hole becomes endless. I was never a historian. After my collapse,
I started reading things that you can't possibly pay me to read previously. The wars, why they
happened. Now all the pieces start to fit together, right? Like, how is a war possible? Well, it's
possible when it's a business, a profitable business. How is it funded? A money printer.
Who controls that bloody money printer? Aha, well, now we know where the origins are. Now,
connect the dots everywhere else, right? And so once you go down that rabbit hole and you absorb
all that information and you factually prove it as a human being, why would you willingly
keep yourself in that world, right? When you know you have an option, but because it sounds too good
to be true when you first hear about it, people dismiss it. They think, oh my God, this is like,
no chance. That's where you had, you know, the previous Fed, oh, the government's going to shut
down bitcoin oh they're going too much energy oh blah blah blah you just the list goes on and every
single time all of them have been debunked and tick tock next block 17 years later bitcoin is
is bigger stronger than ever right now so it exists as an option the problem is that the people who
need it the most don't understand this and the people who shouldn't understand it understand it
the wrong people understand it governments institutions all the folks that bitcoin was
created to replace understand Bitcoin. And they understand that this is something they cannot stop.
They tried. They tried to kill it many times in the past. Every single time they failed. They know
from a tech point of view, it's not going to happen. So what do they do? They try to attack it
in a different way. They're not stupid. They're corrupt, but they're not dumb.
So they attack the narrative. They try to rebrand Bitcoin into what we have it today.
For the most part, they've rebranded Bitcoin as a risk-on tech stock asset.
This is what if 9 out of 10 people you talk to about Bitcoin, they tell you, yeah, yeah, I bought it and I made money.
How did you make money?
Well, I bought it at X dollars.
Now I have X plus whatever dollars.
I'm like, so clearly you don't understand what you have and what it is that you're doing.
because if you're still measuring in dollars, then you don't understand Bitcoin. You're seeing it,
you know, you're playing right into that narrative that they're trying to make you believe it is.
Bitcoin is not a speculation. It's not a stock. It's money itself. But if enough people understood
this, the fiat system would collapse because the incentives of sound money completely destroyed
out of the fiat system, right?
I've said this many times.
If the US dollar and other fiat currencies
were such good products,
why do you have to be threatened to use it?
Why do you have to be threatened in jail time
if you don't pay your taxes?
Why do you have to be coerced into using it?
Why do you have to go through all of this AML, KYC bullshit
under the pretext of your protection
if it's such a good product?
If it was such an amazing thing,
people would like willingly jump to go and get it. But if they don't play by these rules,
they get either killed or thrown in jail. Now you have another product that does none of these
things. It restores your time and energy to you. You actually can own it because nobody owns fiat
money. When you put it, you know, with a custodian, it's the custodian's money and they technically owe
it back to you. So if they don't like your face for whatever reason, fuck you, no more money,
right and you have no recourse try to do that with bitcoin in self-custody bitcoin in self-custody
reverses that middle finger back to that system and that empowers 8 billion people and so once you get that sense of empowerment everything about your perspective on life changes because now you actually working for something that has value not something
that somebody else can debase by printing, by hitting a button and printing trillions, right?
And then coercing you and like telling you you can or cannot use it because of X, Y, and Z,
and answering 700 questions when you want to withdraw some cash to do whatever it is that you
want right this is this is not freedom this is the illusion of freedom so the fiat system was by
design created to extract sensor and control which is the complete opposite of what bitcoin was created
for it's the free empower and you know restore your time and energy for you to do whatever it
is that you want whenever you want it transact from point a to point b with anyone no permission
required. So you have two incentives, very clear incentives. Which one would you logically choose?
Of course, the obvious one is Bitcoin. But you need to learn how to do it, how to use it,
because the world has never seen anything like it. It comes from the world of technology. And so most
people, you know, believe that they're terrible behind the computer. Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't
matter. But everybody can learn seven or eight new steps to figure this out. The main obstacle
that I've encountered through my experience, you know, with dealing with people is that they can't
wrap their heads around that money can exist when it's not government or central bank issued.
It's such a novel concept that, you know, it forces you to admit that you've been, you know,
lied to your entire life, right? And so all your professional career and everything that you've
been doing now, all of a sudden was like completely fake, right? Like some based on rubbish.
A lot of some people don't want to accept that. And so they dismiss Bitcoin. They're like, whatever, man, that's going to go down to zero and whatever other nonsense comes out of their mouth. But then you have some folks that don't think that way. And they're like, hold on, let me verify it myself. So they go in, they do the work, they go down the rabbit holes themselves. They watch podcasts, you know, like this one, they ask the right questions.
and then it just clicks.
Like why am I subjugating myself
to a life of pain unnecessarily
when I can go the extra mile,
sure there's a few steps in the process for now,
but opt out into a world
that restores my freedom 100%.
This is the conflict that I see in the world today.
People who want to accept that
and people who just, I don't know,
It's like self-inflicted pain by refusing to listen.
Right.
So I'm very bullish on the future anyhow.
So but I mean, there's a lot to unpack here.
So I'll let I'll throw the ball back to you.
Yeah.
In case you want to in case you want to fire some questions.
Yeah.
Anywhere you want to go.
Well, my next question would be, what do people do if they they want to they want freedom?
And what steps do they take as a Bitcoin?
Are they like I'm talking someone's like, OK, I get it.
What do I do?
Do I buy the ETF?
It sounds like I have to do more than that.
What do I do?
Do I buy Bitcoin and keep it on exchange?
Do I put it in this hardware?
What do I have to do to be a Bitcoiner and live on a Bitcoin standard?
All right, look, the TLDR, like you really have to be gifted to screw up Bitcoin if you
understand what it is, right?
That's how simple it is.
Bitcoin is not a speculation.
It's not an investment.
It's a savings technology.
so when you go out and provide value in the world what you want normally is to earn and sound money
not debasing paper that's still that's stealing from you all day long so that's one if you don't
want to do this 100 from the from like day one that's cool but step one is understand why you're
looking at bitcoin if you're looking at it from a lens of a savings technology and proper sound
money then you're on the right track if you're not stop doing anything that you are until you
you you know cement that understanding and then come back to bitcoin because otherwise you're
going to screw it up you're either going to leave bitcoin on an exchange or you're going to buy a
worthless etf or some other chatify bitcoin wrapper thinking it's your bitcoin and you're
going to realize that you have nothing really except for hot air bitcoin is bitcoin and the
only way you have that bitcoin is that if you own it yourself in 100 self-custody and that means like
in your hardware wallets.
But that's a process to learn, right?
It comes from the tech world.
It's not rocket science.
It's really not hard.
But you have to learn, you know,
like how you learned how to drive
or whatever other skill you picked up,
you know, during your career,
you're going to learn how to use this new form of money.
And once you do, there's no going back.
Compared to 17 years ago,
the tools to use Bitcoin have been so simplified
that now really there's no difference.
I mean, almost no difference between, you know, what you're accustomed to using in TratFi in the fiat world versus what you have in Bitcoin.
So people that live on a Bitcoin standard, how do they do it?
Well, first of all, there's a lot of merchants around the world today that accept Bitcoin, way, way more than a lot of people realize.
I'm sure sometimes you have to do a bit of research to find what you're looking for, but you will find them.
And every day thousands adopt it because, you know, they're realizing that, you know, this is the way to go.
And there's a lot of tools that are enabling more merchants to adopt Bitcoin easily.
For example, not that long ago, the Square and Cash App in the US was a monumental bullish news where 4 million merchants now have the ability to start accepting it at a click of a button.
To me, this is the signal that people should be focusing on rather than the worthless charts and metrics and all that nonsense that people go on about with the macro and micro on Bitcoin.
This is not where the attention should be.
The attention should be on the ecosystem that is being built on Bitcoin, because at the end of the day, it's a protocol, right?
It's money, but it's also a protocol.
So those tools, you need to learn how to use them.
And once you do, everything unlocks.
You can pay in Bitcoin.
Find circular economies.
You'll find tons of them.
The other part of the puzzle is look for jurisdictions that actually want you.
Like a lot of people complain about their home country.
Ah, the taxes are bad.
The government is shit and blah, blah, blah.
All right, cool. If you're in a position to move, why don't you consider it? Like it's a it's the missing piece of the puzzle. You can own your money. But if you're living in a hellhole, then you're still not free. Both of them, that circle needs to be complete. So it's your money. And it's your the freedom of your body. Your jurisdictional freedom also matters.
you find places in the world that are pro-Bitcoin, pro-freedom, pro-humanity coming in and contributing
to their economies, right? They're not overtaxing you, they're not hounding you, they're not harassing
you or threatening you all day long. They leave you alone. And as long as you're not, you know,
breaking any legitimate rules, your life is your life, man. Nobody cares, right? And so you can pay
in Bitcoin. The tools are simplified. In the event where you have to pay a fiat bill, there are many
Bitcoin friendly banks now that'll give you debit cards, you know, Visa, MasterCards, except they're
powered by your Bitcoin. And so you tap, tap, tap like you normally do. The only difference is that
in the background, it's your Bitcoin in action. The merchant may not, doesn't even know that.
You know this because it's your card. So you earn in Bitcoin, you increase your savings in Bitcoin.
When you need to use it, you use it either Bitcoin natively or via, you know, those debit cards. And
I know as time moves forward, there's going to be a lot more tools coming about.
It's like, you know, it's like the flourishing of the Internet.
You start off with two apps and then you end up with like an infinite amount.
This is what's coming to Bitcoin.
This is already happening in Bitcoin.
And so how do you live on a Bitcoin standard?
It's very easy.
You just, you know, ask the right questions, learn a few new steps and you just do it.
And it's as simple as that.
And when you surround yourself with like minded individuals, which there are plenty of, by the way, because one thing I also get is that, oh, but I'm all alone here.
everybody thinks I'm the crazy one in the family or in my neighborhood. Sure, because, you know,
globally, you know, we're still a minority, but that minority represents millions of people.
So come to meetups or jurisdictions where everybody around you is like you or on the same path,
and then it doesn't feel so lonely anymore, right? And so at the Bitcoin Way, part of our mission is
to also enable those connections so that people don't feel that they're all alone anymore. In fact,
people that live you know on a bitcoin standard amongst like-minded individuals for a big part of
their everyday lives they don't even think about the fiat world anymore like i like myself i don't
even think about it anymore for me it's like wow man like holy shit i can't believe i lived you know
so many years in that horrific product and so again you you disconnect you structure your life
to allow you to disconnect and then once that's done you're already living in the future that i
know we are headed towards. Maybe living through what you did in Lebanon, massive volatility. I
don't know how much volatility there was before the major event, but what kind of perspective
has that given you on the volatility of living on a Bitcoin standard? Sounds like, I mean,
it feels like you would not experience that much because, you know, you've experienced it more
before you're expressing already. You don't even look at the fiat prices in the world. And it's
So maybe how did that influence your thinking or what is the volatility like for you?
Does it just feel like nothing?
Does it still feel volatile?
Look, Cedric, there's nothing more volatile than having your bank account seized, right?
So one, you wake up with a big fat zero.
That's it, man.
Like what volatility is going to phase you afterwards?
So it goes up a little bit.
It comes down a little bit.
So what?
Besides, it's not even Bitcoin that's volatile.
It's the fact that, you know, so many are denominating it in fiat money.
That's the volatility.
But one Bitcoin is one Bitcoin, right?
So sure, some days you're spending more Bitcoin and other days you're spending less Bitcoin.
But it's money.
Like, who cares?
Like, you don't obsess over these details.
What you obsess over is making sure that you are building your life, your savings, you're increasing them on sound money.
so that's where the uh the energy should be placed not on oh shit now i'm spending more bitcoin oh
i can't spend i can't do this because i'm gonna lose no that's the wrong mindset if you're holding
onto a tiny amount and that's it that's all you're doing you know we're not living in that future yet
so ultimately if you're going to need some money you're going to lose that bitcoin but if you're
continuously working towards increasing your stack by whatever means possible either upgrading
your worthless paper to sound money or earning that sound money flat out, then the volatility
is a nothing burger.
So when Bitcoin was at, I don't know, 126K, okay, so if I had to buy something that was
worth, let's say, 100 US dollars, I'd pay X amount of Bitcoin.
Today, I'd pay a little bit more Bitcoin for that same thing.
Doesn't matter.
That shouldn't be the focus.
the focus should be on remembering that no one can stop you from transacting
that is what you're investing in when you start saving in bitcoin you're investing in your freedom
not in some bullshit yield number that is completely meaningless and controlled by a
pack of thieves and you know every other description in the book right that is what
bitcoin represents and that is ultimately its value proposition so if you don't want to live
in a world of evil, in a world that, you know, every other week something comes out, like now
we have the Epstein files. Are you happy about living in that world? Like they say Bitcoin is
for criminals. So what's fiat for? Pedophiles, right? So like there's an argument that can be
made everywhere at this point. So Bitcoin is leaving that world behind. It's like walking
away from an abusive relationship, like a bad breakup. You know, like, all right, get lost now.
I'm moving forward into something much better.
And I want nothing to do with you anymore.
You are completely dead in my head.
You don't exist anymore.
Done.
Right.
So to me, this is the power of Bitcoin.
This is what it restores to humanity, where promises matter again.
Work matters again.
People are accountable for their smart and stupid decisions.
That is the world that is going to propel us forward.
You cannot be living in a world that is paralyzed and handicapped by those that have no good intentions towards you.
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So I love the fire and the conviction.
We can stick with that.
But where's the optimism coming from?
And I ask that in a sense of like, I get, you know, maybe we could just say blank.
Bitcoin fixes everything.
Bitcoin fixes this, fix the money, fix the world.
What can you outline or describe your optimism or things you're optimistic about?
Yeah, I'm the perfect answer to your question.
I came from nothing and now I'm back up on my feet.
And the only reason I am back up on my feet was because of Bitcoin.
Bitcoin literally saved my life.
And so everything I do now and everything I'm able to do now was thanks to Bitcoin.
If it wasn't for that, I probably wouldn't be sitting here talking to you.
And there's a lot of folks that are using Bitcoin as money because that's really what it is.
In financially privileged countries and in the West and EU, they're like taking a very spoiled brat position on Bitcoin,
treating it as an investment or an extra like an extra sprinkle on their portfolio.
This is a very, you know, very, very silly way to look at something that is revolutionizing the entire planet. Right. But for those that have been debanked their entire lives, that have never seen a bank account, that have been shunned from society because a group of people decided that that's how it should be.
these people now have a have a sense of untouchable purpose they own businesses they you know they are
completely independent they they live on a bitcoin standard like they're not saving bitcoin to make
dollars they're not looking at it as a speculation they can't they earn 20 they spend 10 because they
have to buy food and whatever it is so they are using bitcoin you know the way it was meant to be
used. And I think it's because it's being used as money that it has value. Since, you know,
Bitcoin is three things, the store of value, medium of account and unit of exchange. We can't pick and
choose which part of it we want and let somebody else figure out the other one. It's like a wheel.
Everything has to work together. But depending on where you are on this planet, you know, if you're
comfortable, you're going to look at the store of value. And if you're you need to survive, you're
to use it as a medium of exchange because that's what makes sense. But the only way Bitcoin remains
decentralized and secure is if it's used as money, because if it wasn't, it would get co-opted
and that's it. Game over, which is thankfully not the case. Yeah, for sure. So, I mean,
why or how did you get the idea to start the Bitcoin way? What is the mission? How did you go
from you know bitcoin i founded it bitcoin saved my life to i'm going to start a bitcoin company
and decide what you're going to focus on and uh what the mission is you know what that's a funny
story and that's like uh if you want to believe in you know the stars aligning type of uh thing
this this will fall right into that after i you know decided to get back up on my feet and use
bitcoin to restructure my life i was literally talking about it to anyone that crossed my path
you know supermarkets grocery stores barbers like you name it so I was like freelancing my
way through life anyone like 200 people a day I would talk to a lot of them would ignore me of
course you know but some of them would listen and you know slowly but surely I started you know
charging like I was essentially freelancing the the orange peeling you know business
in order to sustain myself and to sort of like slowly rebuild my life.
And then one day, you know, out of nowhere,
I received a text message on Noster by one of my partners, Endy.
And he's like, yeah, we saw your profile, you know,
and it's very interesting, you know, let's talk.
And I'm like, all right, man, okay, so this is either another scammer
or, you know, there's something to it.
And the only reason I answered him
is because he contacted me on Noster.
Back then, like barely anyone knew Noster.
And so if a message came on that platform,
he must have an idea of what he's doing, right?
And so I entertained the call and, you know, we spoke
and he said, you know, I want to start, you know,
figuring out a way to orange pill more people about Bitcoin
and blah, blah, blah.
And so like the connection aligned.
And so, you know, given, you know, a few more conversations, we decided to put the team together here in order to bring this knowledge and education to as many folks as possible.
And, you know, you fast forward to now and here we are.
We started this project about, I'd say, three and a half years ago.
And, you know, I'm happy to say that, you know, it's been a very, very good journey.
We've met tons of folks, a lot of folks that are coming into Bitcoin today are coming in for the right reasons. And to me, this is extremely bullish. You know, like when you have people, you know, fearful out in the streets, and you've got other folks that are like excited to get started on Bitcoin in self-custody, you know, there's a change in the world, right?
and the silver lining is Bitcoin's fixed supply.
It's not going to take 8.3 billion people for Bitcoin to win.
Bitcoin has already won.
It's just getting that much more people across the line
before everybody else decides to FOMO in.
So this is essentially how the Bitcoin way came about.
And the services that we focus on have everything to do with the journey to self-sovereignty.
so we're about teaching you how to self-custody properly we don't have any sponsors by the way
nobody pays us to say anything we test everything out there in-house try to blow it up ourselves
filter out the good from the bad put out these recommendations and you know people buy whatever
it is that they want and we guide them into putting the whole infrastructure together so
there's a bitcoin side of things then there's also the cyber security side of things where
you're protecting your you know your your digital footprint um you want to dig old phones you know
When you were putting out, you know, the knowledge about the realities, about the phones that you're carrying in your hands, those spy tools that you're paying a thousand or more for.
Well, now, you know, you understand what they're really doing, how you can get rid of them without really changing your everyday usability factor with these phones.
And of course, we have jurisdictional freedom.
You know, we have our plan B service that helps people move from bad places to better places, live amongst Bitcoiners and amongst, you know, like minded individuals and really complete that whole journey to self-sovereignty.
Wow. That's a lot to unpack there, though. I'm trying to think, how is maybe your has your life changed? Have you moved jurisdictions?
Yeah, absolutely, man.
My life has changed in a major, major way.
I'd say it has been the biggest upgrade to my existence was Bitcoin.
I left, like I'm no longer in Lebanon, obviously.
Right now, we're in Central America.
We're in Panama, where our plan B is currently focused.
And Panama was not chosen, you know, just, you know, from like a paper and a hat type
of thing.
we spent about nine months tearing apart every jurisdiction on the planet to see which one
checks the most boxes because essentially Panama was for me. I needed to go somewhere where the
chances of another Lebanon was as close to zero as humanly possible. And so we looked high and low
for a very long time and Panama won. Even back then, you know, like a few years ago, two, three
years ago, Panama wasn't really pro-Bitcoin, but it wasn't against it either. Just like whatever,
it's here, it's here, like nobody's going to interfere with it. But some of the banks were
already pro-Bitcoin. Some people were already interacting in Bitcoin. Bitcoin was a thing here,
right? And so you fast forward to now, now the government is pro-Bitcoin. The banks are even
more bullish on Bitcoin. And a lot of folks are coming here because the incentives of the country
are incredible. They see this an opportunity to go from the back of the line to becoming like
potentially like one of the new Monocos of the new world, which I genuinely believe they have a very
strong likelihood of achieving. And so, so far, the bet, the gamble has paid off tremendously
in the amount of, you know, good quality folks that are coming to the country. And so,
this is why I'm bullish. You know, like we have Bitcoin adoption is growing. Like if you come to
Panama, Bitcoin is, I wouldn't say everywhere, but it's in a lot of places. So if you want to find
yourself on a Bitcoin standard here, it's much easier than, for example, I don't know, somewhere
in the US or somewhere in Europe or what have you, where it's not as prevalent yet. But, you know,
that's going to come because at some point we're going to head into a two-tier world. You're going
to have one half stuck in hell, UBI, central bank, digital currency, digital IDs, and all that
rubbish. And you're going to have another half that is completely free, sound money, no permission
required, transact whenever you like, live in a jurisdiction where the government wants you,
where people like you, and you're surrounded by people just with the same ethos and values that
you have, and you're not thinking about anything else, right? And so when that happens, at some
point, those stuck in hell are going to realize that, you know, there are a whole bunch of other
people that are not living in hell. And of course, they're going to want to move from here to there.
Except, you know, at that stage, there's no ticket. Like, who's gonna sell their freedom
or trade their freedom for that? It's either not going to happen, or it's going to be extremely
expensive. And if you're not in a position to, you know, to buy that ticket by whichever way you can,
then what happens? Wow, it's an interesting way to put it. You understand? And that's not a pretty
scenario either. Because you can only suffocate people so much before, you know, before they push
back, right? Like when you're boiling water, and you're trying to hold down the cover to that kettle,
There's only so much you can hold it before it builds up in your face.
And so that's what I mean.
It's not a pretty scenario because by hook or by crook, people are not going to accept,
maybe not everybody, but a lot of them will not accept being suffocated and bullied anymore.
And so they're going to react.
That reaction is not a pretty picture.
So a lot of folks don't see this.
I see this like crystal clear for me because I lived through that hell.
I know what people are capable of when they have no options.
It's very hard for you to really resonate with this unless you are in these shoes.
I mean, sure, you can listen to me and you might be empathetic and you're like, holy shit, this sounds terrible.
Fine.
But unless you are in these shoes, it's not going to hit you the right way.
And when you are in these shoes, you never forget it.
And so every decision you make is strategically based on protecting yourself from that situation.
That's where the fearlessness comes in.
Because now you've inundated yourself with all this new knowledge and information that you were completely oblivious to before.
That transforms your brain, like your mental strategic capabilities.
Like it's completely different now.
You don't put yourself at risk. You know who the enemy is. You know what their game is like. It's very obvious. And you just, you don't play on that chessboard anymore. You're like, okay, do your whatever it is that you want to do. But I'm not there anymore. So good luck to you and whoever else you're going to screw on that chessboard. It's not going to be me. And it's not going to be the millions of others that have opted out of your chessboard.
And we're seeing that chessboard fall apart.
I mean, we're reaching the endgame here now, at least it seems like it,
because when you have an escalation of bad news in a very short period of time,
that's usually the indication that the mothership is about to come crashing.
Yeah.
I was going to ask you what are sort of maybe the telltale signs before the collapse.
If you could orange pill anyone in the world, who would that be and why?
everybody man i orange people every single day we work with a ton of folks but we do it not by
making empty promises like we don't talk about price we don't you know market bitcoin as your
ticket to dollar riches because that's not what it is we talk about bitcoin you know as a as a
lifestyle as sound money as truth and we educate folks on how to use it and how to protect it
and how to, you know, become aware of scams and, you know, possible cyber attacks, you know, against it, because, you know, I expect these to increase as well as it's valuing.
value continues to appreciate. And of course, more importantly, we help educate folks
to desensitize from the noise that's out there. Like a lot of people now are freaking out at the
Bitcoin price. Oh my God, it crashed 50%. What are you upset about? When it was 126,
you were complaining, oh shit, it's too expensive. All right. So now it's like 66.
Now you think it's going to zero, right? So that stupidity is what we help
neuter and that comes we know with proper education providing you know verifiable facts
and and what have you and then once people once it clicks that's it man you're you're not going
back to that chart like it doesn't really matter this chart is part of the whole attack on bitcoin
right again framing it as this oh my gosh this scary thing that's so risky don't touch it while
the wrong people accumulated in the background, which is what they're doing, because they want to
hold it in self-custody. But you, the worthless pleb, should only use it as a service that they
provide. You don't deserve the right to own your own freedom because you're not elite enough, right?
So that's what's happening. And as long as people fall for these tricks, ETFs, Bitcoin treasuries,
borrowing against your Bitcoin, all these little carrots that they dangle to separate the ignorance
from their Bitcoin, they're going to lose it. Most of our clients, most of our clients, I'd say like
95% verifiably during this quote unquote crash, we're buying. That means we're doing something
right, right? When the price goes from 126 to whatever it is now, most of our clients, 95% of
them are buying. They're not selling because they understand why they're here and what they're
So, again, proper education matters a lot.
It's not about hype or fake promises.
It about understanding why we here This is awesome I can tell you how much I enjoyed this conversation Tony has been so dope How would you describe the best candidates for the Bitcoin way
People listening, what makes a Bitcoiner think, I could use the Bitcoin way?
Well, look, if you no longer want to be ripped off in your daily life,
if you're tired of being lied to if you no longer want to fund indirectly you know all the evil in
the world because you know you're spending money on things you didn't vote for like if you're tired
of that type of abuse asking for permission always being you know under somebody's uh chain
then bitcoin is for you because it's it's it's your ticket it's your ticket out but if you're
going to come to Bitcoin thinking, you know, you're going to become dollar rich, then don't come to
Bitcoin until you stop thinking that way. Because you're going to make emotional mistakes. You're
going to look at the price every five minutes and you're going to panic and do something irrational.
Bitcoin is the long game, right? But I mean, as the world decays and deteriorates, that long
timeframe becomes shorter and shorter organically. None of what's happening out there, by the way,
is organic. That crash that happened now is man-made because there's a psychological war
going out there in order to destroy people's perception of Bitcoin. Because of course,
like I said earlier, they can't kill the tech, but they can try to attack people's perception of it
to keep them away from it. And when the price goes from $126 to $66, that's exactly what's happening.
It tells you that those that bought it initially understand nothing of what they were holding.
and now they're panicking, oh my gosh, there's bad news,
they scram right back into the worst product
that they were trying to escape from in the first place.
So it a bit funny but that only comes because people feel safe in something that they always known not necessarily because it the better product Yeah for sure Well you really piqued my interest in Panama
I'm in the States, but we think a lot about a plan B and what that might be and how to go about that.
Maybe we can come visit you.
Absolutely, man.
There's a lot of Americans here, by the way, like a lot.
and so when I walk down the street
you know I'd say like 7 out of 10
people are from the United States
wow
I see locals but
not as frequently as I see Americans
I don't know if this is good or bad
maybe we were
good or bad
some of the nicest folks
at least my interactions with them have been
tremendously positive
very nice people here
but of course my interactions with them
are very superficial.
Hey, how's it going?
How's your day type of thing?
You know, we're not,
there's no intimate conversations beyond that,
but they're definitely here.
And you have a lot of Europeans as well coming here.
There's a ton of Australians that are coming here.
It's becoming like a honeypot of expats.
That's awesome.
And I've heard, I mean,
a lot of talk in the Bitcoin world about El Salvador.
I've personally, I guess, heard some anecdotes
that Colombia is awesome now.
I went on my honeymoon to Costa Rica
Definitely want to go back to this part of the world
Beautiful countries, man
El Salvador is doing remarkable things
The only thing with El Salvador right now
Is that citizenship costs a million bucks
So there's that barrier to entry for some folks
Some people love it
But if the cost is an issue
There are other options
Panama is way more affordable than that
And of course it's personal preference
You know, like Panama is a bit more mature as a country, like city life.
I describe it as like a hybrid between you know New York Miami and Vegas but like without the junk it a really beautiful clean city And if you more the outdoorsy type just Google it Panama Caribbean and just look at the pictures that show up It literally like a page out of a fairy tale And the people here are super friendly The
food is phenomenal. The cost of living, I would estimate is at least 20 to 30% cheaper than you
have back home. And if you're a carnivore and you like your steaks, I'll place a bet that the
stakes here win all right salt uh this has been so dope i'll leave it to you for any parting words
and let people know where they can find you and the bitcoin way absolutely man you guys can follow
me on twitter you know my handle is v4 btc of course the bitcoin wake up underscore handle is
also very active we put out a lot of content on a daily basis you know we love meeting folks face
to face, especially myself. I'm very old school in that sense. We try to go to as many conferences
as possible in order to spotlight the truth and the knowledge and the education about this.
We don't buy or sell any Bitcoin. We handhold people through the entire process. There's no
stupid questions on any of our calls. And of course, we help folks get this whole sovereignty
thing right the first time. Love it. Sounds awesome. Thank you so much.
Cedric, thank you for having me, man.
Yeah, it's been really great.
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