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Hey, hey, welcome to the Bitcoin Matrix. I'm your host, Cedric Youngelman.

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This episode is brought to you by Microseed, the Bitcoin self-custody maximalist.

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Ben Justman, for creating your beautiful wines. Get yours now just in time for the holidays.

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In this episode, I chat with Daniel White, the author of The Great Realignment, Power, Money,

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Greed, and Bitcoin, and the CEO of MicroSeed, a Bitcoin self-custody startup.

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We dive deep into the foundational structures of power and greed,

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tracing their origins from tribal society through the rise of the state

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and into the modern fiat era.

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Dan brings a rare combination of libertarian roots,

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legal scholarship, and real-world experience

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to unpack how Bitcoin realigns the ancient game of resource capture.

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If you've ever wondered why the world works the way it does

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and how Bitcoin offers a profound shift in that dynamic,

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this conversation is for you.

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If you want to get in touch with me or buy some dope Bitcoin Matrix merch, head over to thebitcoinmatrix.com.

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Also, please support the show by subscribing to the Bitcoin Matrix on the Fountain app and get early ad-free access to all of our new episodes.

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And now, let's enter the Bitcoin Matrix with self-custody maximalist Daniel White.

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What is real? How do you define real?

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you can't jump into cash.

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Cash is trash.

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What do you do?

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You get out.

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Daniel White is the author of The Great Realignment,

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Power, Money, Greed, and Bitcoin.

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And the Grand Puba at MicroSeed,

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the self-custody maximalists.

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Stamp your seed phrase on a piece of titanium

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the size of a washer.

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Then you could hide, take, or leave that thing

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in plain sight and you'll be all right. Daniel White, welcome to the Bitcoin Matrix podcast.

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How are you? I'm wonderful. Thank you so much for having me, Cedric. It's great to be here,

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man. Thanks. Yeah, I'm super excited to get into it. We're going to talk about Microseed.

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I have mine. It's pretty dope. But first, I mean, we're going to talk about this book.

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Awesome. Yeah, we're going to talk about this book. You sent me this. It's got a really

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interesting uh title the great realignment and that kind of comes more at the end though

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but you know power money greed and bitcoin and some things within power that i don't think we

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really think about or talk about that much all these subjects kind of bring a different angle

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let's maybe talk about your background first though it seems like you got a wide background

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or varied experiences.

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Yeah.

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Maybe walk us through that a little bit.

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Well, I'll do my best to not be dull.

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But yeah, I would definitely say

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I have a sort of unique background

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when it comes to things like,

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you know, the history of money

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and writing about this kind of stuff.

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As I've told many people in the past,

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I was raised in a libertarian household.

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Like my dad had literally like a picture

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of Ayn Rand on the wall, you know?

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And I think my mom used to get jealous about it.

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Like, who's this lady?

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and why, you know, nevermind if you ever saw Ayn Rand, you'd never get jealous about her.

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But, but nevertheless, so I was very early on, I was exposed to like libertarian ideas

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and he was like on the little mailing lists and, you know, when you'd get little like

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things in the mail actually, and, and read these little libertarian handouts and stuff.

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And I remember reading articles about why we need to ban the post office and, you know,

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all kinds of, you know, stuff like that.

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Right.

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So like the sort of standard small government libertarian tropes of stuff.

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but I you know by the time I was nine or ten I was talking about you know like the need to cut down

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the size of the federal government I mean I'm sort of parroting just what my parents were saying and

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stuff like that but that was my sort of early exposure so by the time I was in high school

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I was getting exposed to people like Peter Schiff and Schiff and talking about sound money and

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it's one of the reasons why even to this day like people crap on his head because he's always like

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dogging on bitcoin but I'm like that guy is kind of like an OG like sound money guy like regardless

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of the fact whether or not he gets Bitcoin, like he's a Bitcoin holder right now. So I go, whether

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you want to say he's orange filled or not, he's, he's collecting sats and he's sitting on them,

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I think. So he's just as good of a Bitcoin or as anybody else, the best I can tell,

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even though he makes a career out of crapping on it. But from there, I kind of continued on. I

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ended up working in the film and television industry in my twenties, but I stayed very

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active in like libertarian thinking, libertarian circles and stuff like that. I actually ran for

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office as a libertarian candidate in Southern California, like in the 43rd state assembly

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district. Yeah, obviously I didn't do very well in that. I don't even think I should have been on

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that stage. Like I wasn't a very good public speaker at the time or anything, but it was

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sort of through all these little fits and trials that I finally ended up kind of in my late thirties.

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I left the film industry and went and got a law degree and it was from the law degree.

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like when you start studying the law, you kind of start to see some of the holes in the libertarian

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logic about things. And, and when I say libertarian, by the time I was in my twenties, I was probably

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more like one of these sovereign citizen kind of guys than anything else. You know, like I was

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really deep down in the weeds, but when you kind of study the law and the beauty of the law is

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there's, it's a, it's a history lesson, right? And it's a history that's been well documented. Like

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unlike most historical accounts of things where it's like a third person relating things that

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they read about or heard about or maybe saw or not and then putting their biases and things in there

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the the law is a history and especially in the common law and the english common law goes back

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a thousand years to the magna carta but you can read cases from you know 1400 that they talk about

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like two people in conflict and how they resolve that conflict and why and so it's very very well

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documented historical accounts of like how people resolve conflict is basically what it boils down

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to. But it also shows you like just how deep the nuance is when it comes to these conversations.

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People say, oh, you know, we need to ban this or do that or pass this law or don't pass that law.

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And I go like in my mind, I always hear that sort of like there are so many ripples that flow from

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this and like third order effects, fourth order effects. And I think most people kind of stop at

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first or second order effects of things.

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They just go, well, if we do this and this is going to fix this,

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but they don't see all the unintended consequences and things like that.

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But my law degree was for lack of a better term was kind of like a ding dong

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degree. Like it was basically like going to like better call Saul law school,

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you know, like it was, I wasn't going to Harvard or Stanford or anything like

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that. And so when I finished up with that, I thought, well, you know what?

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I should probably polish this degree up a little bit.

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And so I went and did a master of laws down at the Thomas Jefferson school law

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down in San Diego. And at the time it was at least a reputable school. Now it's even that one's sort

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of falling into disrepute. So now I've got like strike one, strike two on my law school ding dong

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degrees. But I was very fortunate when I got to Thomas Jefferson that like all these little

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thoughts and ideas that I've been percolating around in my head for the last, you know, up to

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that point, 40 years, uh, started coming out like in my legal research. And I had a law professor

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that said, Hey, you know, you should consider like trying to publish like a, an article in one of

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these law reviews because you're a good writer, man. I said, okay, cool. I'll give it a shot.

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And he kind of told me a story. He said, you know, my first law review article I got published,

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I, I submitted it to like a hundred journals and I got turned down for every single one of them.

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Then I wrote another article, submitted it to a hundred journals. And then I got accepted after

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like 98 rejections. And then he went back and resubmitted. So for me, I came out and like my

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first article that I wrote, I submitted and I got published like two months later and I went and

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told him like, Hey, they published my article. And he's like, Oh, that's, that's great. Like,

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how cool for you. And then I wrote another one that got published right away. And you could kind

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of see that little look of just like, you got to be shitting me, buddy. Like, where are you coming

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from? So with that, I found that I had this penchant for research. And, and a lot of those

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papers that I wrote, like I've wrote a four part series for the banking law journal. It was about

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anti money laundering regulation, but all the articles I wrote for the law reviews were,

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would always entail like a deep historical analysis. And I think that's one of the things

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that made them stand out when it came to the review process. Because I would go back, you know,

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like I wrote a paper on bankruptcy law. I went all the way back to like, where did bankruptcy

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come from? Why are we talking about this kind of stuff? Where do these ideas come from? And that's

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sort of always my basis. And it was the same thing with the money laundering series that I did for

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the Banking Law Journal. And from all that publishing, I went and I thought, you know,

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this is all kind of interesting, but I don't really want to be a lawyer, but I really do enjoy

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this research thing. So I applied to the London School of Economics. I originally applied as a

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political, international political economy student. And when I got to the school, like all these,

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they were, you know, developmental economics courses, like in the third world kind of thing

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that I was super, super interested in learning about. And they weren't on offer when I got there,

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but there was a guy running a criminology program that was, you know, criminal justice program,

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basically. And so I switched majors and then went there, but then I ended up publishing a bunch of

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papers while I was at the LSE as well. So, so through it all, I just ended up with this kind

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of like deep research background, uh, that I found, like I kind of took to like a duck to water.

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But when it came time to write the book, I thought, man, I got all this stuff just floating

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around my head, you know, and I would hear these arguments and people, and very, very brilliant

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thinkers like Lynn Alden would come out and she's absolutely astonishing just in her depth of

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knowledge and how she presents ideas and things like that. But even still, there's like, she'll

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say stuff and I'm just like, that's just not right. And at the risk of incurring the wrath of the

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gods of the brilliant people of the world, I just go, there are some things that I think people

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overlook. And I was trying to kind of tackle that because at the end of all of this, my sort of

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thesis about like why Bitcoin is important is I think it aligns with most people that are into

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Bitcoin, but there's enough nuance in there that I think it distinguishes it. But I think that

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historical analysis sort of informs that a lot and has me with a very, very deep conviction about why

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Bitcoin is really, really a remarkable thing. And I think it goes far deeper than most people

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give it credit for. Even people that would call themselves full on maxis and sound money advocates

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and all that kind of stuff. I go, there's another layer to this that I think is very, very

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pertinent to the discussion about what Bitcoin is, which is why I'm such a huge fan and such

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a huge proponent of running nodes, making sure people participate in this network,

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because it is a robust system and it's not foolproof. It's not perfect. And it requires

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user participation. And I desperately want to see that protected for generations to come,

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because I literally think it realigns a game that's been being played for 12,000 years. And

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And that was sort of the impetus for the great realignment.

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So hopefully I managed to get through this without being dull.

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I tried to preface that it might be, but yeah, that's kind of the origin story.

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No, I don't think that's dull at all.

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And I think there's a lot more I want to get into about your background, but let's jump

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into this.

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You know, I think one of the things that's really interesting about this and, you know,

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you tend to come across a piece of work at the right time.

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and I think that this book is really pertinent for where we are with Bitcoin today.

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And one of the things that you kind of, I think, really hammer home here is asking two questions,

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like why are things the way they are and why is it acting that way?

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Or why is this entity acting that way?

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So let's start with power and the notion of power.

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What is power?

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In your book, you kind of have like the, you know, some simple categorizations of power, like political or national strength.

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Like after a war, like that could change, you know, the balance of power could change in a particular area.

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The possession of control or command over people, so like words have power.

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Political ascendancy or control in the government of a country, they attained power, you know, by overthrowing the legal government.

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legal ability, capacity, or authority, like Congress has certain authority, delegated authority,

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a document or written statement conferring legal authority, a person or thing that possesses or

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exercises authority or influence, a state or nation having international authority influence,

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great powers hold, you know, like the G7 will hold a conference, or a military or naval force,

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you know. So what, like, you know, that gets confusing.

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Correct. You know, and people kind of just throw these words around. So, yeah. Yeah. Where would you take it from here in terms of sort of your exploration of power and how you see it?

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I mean, I think you've summed it up really well.

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People just kind of toss these terms around.

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And I think they do so without really thinking about what they're saying, right?

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Because there's that old saying, the biggest barrier to communication is the illusion that

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it has been accomplished.

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And you can have two people talking about the same thing that they think because they're

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using the same words, but what they're referring to can be vastly different.

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And I think power, money, greed, all of those things are all those types of terms.

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Like if I say – like even the current debate with knots and core and spam and not spam and this and that, people go, Bitcoin should be a monetary network.

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And I say, well, OK, define money.

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And then people go, you're just being pedantic.

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You're just being – this isn't a philosophy class.

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Everybody knows what money is.

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I go, well, the definitions are important because if you're arguing about something and you're suggesting something should be a thing, then it's probably important to understand what that thing is and what it means and why.

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and you know i mean there are people like robert breedlove made an entire career off

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asking what is money right so i go and i don't think he's come up with a sound answer yet because

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it's a really difficult concept to unpack and that was sort of the starting point of the book

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i originally started the book with money and i thought well i want to take it back even further

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and go well where does power come from what does it mean to be in power what does it mean to have

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power what does it mean to wield power all those kind of things are all very very nebulous terms i

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I mean you can assign a lot of meaning to what that means.

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Like I can say I'm powerful or she's a powerful woman or she's a powerful singer or he's a powerful bodybuilder or whatever it is.

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But you obviously can't transpose those onto national power, state power, state authority, things like that.

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So the purpose of that was to try and kind of strip back the ideas of like where does power come from?

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Why do people ascend to power?

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And to kind of give like a headline type view of it, it's like if most people cannot withstand

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sustained periods of chaos, right?

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Like in any, if you talk about a failed state, if you talk about like Afghanistan after the

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Russians left if you talk about you know Somalia today or you know Jamaica or wherever anywhere what was that Haiti Anywhere that these social norms the power systems collapse within somebody somewhere is going to come and alleviate the chaos for people

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And it's their ability to alleviate that chaos and to bring some semblance of order that ushers them into power.

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And oftentimes these people are not the people that wanted to do that, right?

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But the seizure of power is either opportunistic or it's because of necessity.

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And oftentimes it's both.

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But, you know, the the the object of capturing power in a system where there are what I call a competitive resource capture economy, that that's where power capture comes from.

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But if you go back before agriculture and if you look at hunter gatherer societies and societies that consume as they go, they don't hoard things.

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Right. You know, what are their power structures look like?

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And they go, what are you talking about?

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There is none.

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It is very, very, very egalitarian.

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people that come on and go, you know what? I'm the leader of this group. They just get mocked

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relentlessly until they go away. Right. Like people just do not have any tolerance for anybody that

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comes along and says, I'm the boss. And so they tend to be these very egalitarian social structures.

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And so to my mind, I go, well, how is it that human beings managed to live for 250,000 years

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without any sort of like power hierarchies at all? But then suddenly just randomly out of the blue,

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everyone just decided, hey, now's a good time that we should start installing kings and having

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warlords and leaders and wars and all this kind of stuff and i say that's a direct result of

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sedentism basically like when people started putting down roots when they started having

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assets that could be hoarded and then thus captured that's the time when power structures

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start showing up and so that's the the funny thing about that game is like people that will

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come in and hoard and steal resources create a lot of chaos right like if you're just a bunch

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of little farming villages or a bunch of families doing little like small holds and then a group of

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thugs comes in and starts stealing stuff well then you guys got a gang up and get your pit fork out

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and and fight back but then some other gang comes along and if that gang takes over then another

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gang's always trying to take from them and they're always fighting but it's constant chaos nobody can

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get anything done so sooner or later the gangs kind of figure that out and go hey you know what

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it's better if we all just kind of group up and we'll just have a coalition and you can see that

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in street gangs today. You can see that in El Salvador. You can see it in Brazilian favelas.

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You can see it anywhere in the world where power structures start emerging like that.

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The natural inclination is for people to fight, scrabble, and grab as much as they can. But

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eventually that leads to a situation where it's very costly to continue doing that. So then the

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natural inclination is to gang up, group up, find like groups, and then consolidate resources and

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territory. And then you start having coalitions fighting each other. And if the coalitions,

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depending on how big they get, one coalition is going to squeeze another one out. They're going

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to incorporate smaller coalitions. It grows and grows and grows. If you give that a couple thousand

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years, you end up with a king and a castle and knights and an orderly system of like, hey,

248
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this is how this power hierarchy works. But it starts from resource capture and chaos. Those

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people just happen to group up and provide some order to that chaos. So that's kind of

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maybe the long-winded trek around power hopefully that was a coherent thought that came out of my

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head right now that was great and i what what really made me think about though is just sort

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of the kind of people that come to power and how it's sort of not sort of by like you were saying

253
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it's not by dictate it's sort of emergent but you'd imagine uh and maybe you could describe

254
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better than i do like what what are the kind of people that like either become the head of a gang

255
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like in a prison or a mob or you could even maybe include a politician like what is it about them

256
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are they just the strongest person you know we could talk about like strength like you know what

257
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what makes them sort of ascend and um what is sort of the life or you know being in power well that's

258
00:19:38,448 --> 00:19:43,508
a great question and you know i i think there's been like endless dramatizations of this process

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right uh and i mean there's like you could even just go to like game of thrones because if you

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if you know anything about the game of thrones and that series and the series

261
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of books and all that kind of stuff,

262
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it's essentially the English war of the roses with dragons,

263
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right?

264
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I mean,

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that guy just went,

266
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read a bunch of history books and said,

267
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Oh,

268
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this might be interesting.

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If I toss a couple of dragons in there and some fantasy tropes and we got

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ourselves a new series.

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But if you look at the leaders and if you look at even the dramatizations of

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it,

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they go,

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they will say things like,

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well,

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if,

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if it's just strength and how come all the nights aren't in charge,

278
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how come this weaselly little guy in the shadows is the one that's pulling

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strings.

280
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And how come this guy,

281
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because when you start getting to coalition building and we start getting into navigating

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complex social dynamics, it's not necessarily the brute that's going to figure that out.

283
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Brutes are pretty good at getting there, but there are guys that work angles and do things

284
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differently and think their way through problems. And those are the people that tend to rise to

285
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those power positions. But they also find as soon as they get there, it's a real pain in the ass,

286
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right? Like there's nothing nice about it and you can never trust people around. It's a miserable

287
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existence for everybody that seizes power. It's, it can be quite comfortable until you get a knife

288
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in your back or until someone blows you up or until your kingdom gets overrun or until you make

289
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a tactical error, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So they tend to be short-lived and they tend to be

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people that are very shrewd and also very capable. I mean, especially in like prison gangs,

291
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typical like gang type hierarchies, obviously the, the ability to wield physical violence

292
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effectively is an asset and a tool.

293
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But being a good coach is oftentimes better.

294
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Like if you're good at organizing that violence and making sure that you

295
00:21:24,868 --> 00:21:27,508
counter whatever tactics your enemy is bringing,

296
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that brings a lot of prestige to you as a leader of that group.

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You go, hey, man, we were outnumbered two to one by these gangs,

298
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but old Tommy here came in and he just said, do this, do this.

299
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And then next thing you know, we whooped those guys

300
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and they kicked him right out of the neighborhood.

301
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And so it's that kind of tactical thinking.

302
00:21:45,588 --> 00:21:48,328
And a lot of times it just boils down to luck, right?

303
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I mean, if you think about like what has turned the tide of battles, I don't know if you ever read War and Peace.

304
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But there's a great little passage in there where there was a fellow, you know, I mean, it's a fictional book, obviously, but based on sort of events.

305
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But there was a guy who was standing on a hill and some general came along and said, hey, you're not supposed to be standing on the hill.

306
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You're supposed to be doing this.

307
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And why are you wasting all this time?

308
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So the guy followed his orders and did that.

309
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what the general didn't know because he came waddling down the hill was that that guy was

310
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there for a reason and now that he left that reason got exposed and the whole tide of the

311
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battle changed because this one dipshit came along and said hey you shouldn't be here i know what's

312
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best and get out of here right so but that's true of any physical combat these are these are very

313
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very delicate competitions and they can come down to fractions of a second i mean things that can

314
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turn the tide of battle can be you know as minuscule as a mouse fart or it can be as big as

315
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an atom bomb, but you never know what the thing is that made that one come out victorious and the

316
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other. The problem is, is if you are embroiled in a power hierarchy and you kind of look around the

317
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world and go, Hey, I'm here because God willed it. I belong here. I'm the smartest one. You start

318
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thinking like, Hey, these successes are because I am here. And you start leaving out the, well,

319
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I mean, I'm here also because like Tom slipped and he knocked all those bombs off the roof.

320
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And then they fell on the guys that were coming up behind us and we didn't see them.

321
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So that was kind of a good thing because we would have got wrecked otherwise.

322
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But I'm here because I'm a brilliant tactician.

323
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I'm ordained by God, et cetera, et cetera.

324
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So the type of personality that gets there, it can oftentimes be very different than the type of people that stay there and sustain it, which is why I think you see these power structures come into place, the bureaucracy come into place because they then surround themselves with layers of other things to keep them away from their own decisions and their own egos and things like that.

325
00:23:39,928 --> 00:23:44,088
But it's also a way to put barriers between you and the people that are trying to seize power from you.

326
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Right. So it's a complex bugger, as they say.

327
00:23:47,828 --> 00:23:50,368
Yeah, it really made me like vacillate between.

328
00:23:52,828 --> 00:24:00,548
There's the sort of the randomness of how things can happen and people can have survivor bias or success bias.

329
00:24:01,128 --> 00:24:08,568
But at the same time, there might be a sense of a natural law or just order of like,

330
00:24:08,568 --> 00:24:10,548
when you see someone like Tony Soprano

331
00:24:10,548 --> 00:24:12,508
and there's part of me was like,

332
00:24:12,988 --> 00:24:14,528
Tony, you know this is not going to end well.

333
00:24:14,648 --> 00:24:16,648
Why did you even covet this role?

334
00:24:17,508 --> 00:24:20,088
Why does people like you want this role

335
00:24:20,088 --> 00:24:21,708
over and over and over

336
00:24:21,708 --> 00:24:24,368
knowing how it usually doesn't end well on that?

337
00:24:25,028 --> 00:24:26,228
You know, you seize that power

338
00:24:26,228 --> 00:24:28,088
and you think you're going to be the one to hold it forever

339
00:24:28,088 --> 00:24:30,288
and you're going to prevent the kind of people like yourself

340
00:24:30,288 --> 00:24:31,448
who took it from you.

341
00:24:31,888 --> 00:24:33,488
But it's almost inevitable.

342
00:24:34,988 --> 00:24:37,608
And so it's like,

343
00:24:37,608 --> 00:24:39,488
But it's like they're calling.

344
00:24:41,728 --> 00:24:42,708
You know?

345
00:24:43,368 --> 00:24:43,708
Yeah.

346
00:24:43,848 --> 00:24:45,688
So it really made me think about that a lot.

347
00:24:45,848 --> 00:24:46,028
Yeah.

348
00:24:46,108 --> 00:24:48,368
Well, I think it's a great, it's an excellent analogy.

349
00:24:48,548 --> 00:24:53,168
And I think Tony Soprano probably resonates really well in terms of what we're talking about.

350
00:24:53,468 --> 00:24:59,928
Because, I mean, if you look at the power structures that the Italian mafia, for instance, you know, created in the United States.

351
00:24:59,928 --> 00:25:01,928
And, I mean, they have state influence, right?

352
00:25:02,628 --> 00:25:09,428
So if you look at that, you go, what kind of person wants to become an astronaut, right?

353
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Like there's a select subset of human beings that just go, I really, really want to try

354
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that.

355
00:25:13,788 --> 00:25:16,508
But it's the same subset of human beings that want to be a rock star.

356
00:25:16,628 --> 00:25:19,368
It's the same subset of human beings that want to be a great basketball player.

357
00:25:20,008 --> 00:25:24,828
Most people just don't have the core attributes to get there to begin with, right?

358
00:25:24,828 --> 00:25:29,528
Like they just don't have the aptitude, ability, or skills to be Michael Jordan or to be.

359
00:25:29,528 --> 00:25:42,848
But the thing is, once you get to like the minor leagues of baseball or once you get to the little farm leagues of basketball or any of these competitive hierarchy type, these competitions for these very, very rare possibilities of success.

360
00:25:43,768 --> 00:25:52,068
If you try and delineate what's the difference between this astronaut candidate that went through and this astronaut candidate that didn't, you go on paper, good luck.

361
00:25:52,148 --> 00:25:54,968
You'll never find that je ne sais quoi.

362
00:25:54,968 --> 00:25:57,228
And it's the same thing with the baseball hierarchy.

363
00:25:57,228 --> 00:26:00,088
Like there was a guy, I can't remember his name.

364
00:26:00,328 --> 00:26:01,888
He was a catcher for the Dodgers.

365
00:26:02,368 --> 00:26:06,308
He was remarkable to me because he spent like 15 years in the minors as a

366
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catcher.

367
00:26:06,668 --> 00:26:10,048
So if you know anything about baseball, that guy, like by the time you're 27,

368
00:26:10,128 --> 00:26:10,828
your knees are wrecked.

369
00:26:10,828 --> 00:26:14,188
This guy was 35 and still duking it out and double a and, you know,

370
00:26:14,208 --> 00:26:17,208
making 25 grand a year and sleeping on crappy mattresses and,

371
00:26:17,268 --> 00:26:18,728
and just doing the grind.

372
00:26:18,728 --> 00:26:22,468
And all the while he's got like 18 year old kids that are absolute studs

373
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coming up right behind him.

374
00:26:23,488 --> 00:26:26,788
And every voice on the planet going, dude, you're 35.

375
00:26:26,788 --> 00:26:29,568
If you're not your day passed, man, it's never going to happen.

376
00:26:29,668 --> 00:26:30,568
You're never going up.

377
00:26:30,628 --> 00:26:32,048
You're never going to make it to the bigs.

378
00:26:32,228 --> 00:26:35,428
And then one year, age 36, he got called up to the majors.

379
00:26:35,428 --> 00:26:40,228
He went and like led the Dodgers and, you know, on base percentage and just absolutely

380
00:26:40,228 --> 00:26:40,708
crushed it.

381
00:26:40,748 --> 00:26:45,208
I mean, he's an absolute stud and he got to retire with a couple million, you know, sort

382
00:26:45,208 --> 00:26:45,588
of bonus.

383
00:26:45,588 --> 00:26:49,648
And he got to play in the bigs and he got, but you think about like, what kind of person

384
00:26:49,648 --> 00:26:50,708
can endure that?

385
00:26:50,788 --> 00:26:52,528
And you go, who knows?

386
00:26:52,588 --> 00:26:52,828
Right.

387
00:26:53,248 --> 00:26:55,928
So was it natural that he got there?

388
00:26:56,488 --> 00:26:56,768
Maybe.

389
00:26:56,928 --> 00:26:58,708
Was he just batshit crazy and got lucky?

390
00:26:59,368 --> 00:26:59,668
Maybe.

391
00:26:59,988 --> 00:27:03,828
I mean, did it take that long for his natural ability,

392
00:27:03,988 --> 00:27:06,368
aptitude, and skills to catch up with the needs?

393
00:27:06,668 --> 00:27:06,948
Maybe.

394
00:27:07,408 --> 00:27:10,328
Is it how long it took him to be able to deal with the pressure

395
00:27:10,328 --> 00:27:11,268
that made him choke earlier?

396
00:27:11,408 --> 00:27:11,668
Maybe.

397
00:27:12,528 --> 00:27:15,288
So there are guys, for every Tony Soprano that makes it,

398
00:27:15,328 --> 00:27:16,988
to your point about survivorship bias,

399
00:27:16,988 --> 00:27:20,348
there's 1,000 would-be Tony Sopranos that don't ever get there.

400
00:27:20,948 --> 00:27:23,108
Most of them aren't qualified for the job.

401
00:27:23,108 --> 00:27:28,988
and the few that are left are, you know, they're always one, you know, car bomb away from getting

402
00:27:28,988 --> 00:27:35,108
offed or one backstab or one betrayal. And then they just don't get there. And the thing that

403
00:27:35,108 --> 00:27:39,748
makes those stories so dramatic is, is not so much like the will of the person to survive.

404
00:27:39,748 --> 00:27:44,228
It's the miracles that they do survive to get to where they are. Like, if you think about any of

405
00:27:44,228 --> 00:27:49,228
those sort of dramatic characters, whether it's from Shakespeare to, to Breaking Bad or The

406
00:27:49,228 --> 00:27:52,888
Sopranos or whatever, you go, what did that guy have to endure to get to that place where he

407
00:27:52,888 --> 00:27:57,348
became suddenly fragile and vulnerable oh my god well there's that one time where he almost got

408
00:27:57,348 --> 00:28:01,868
blown up but then you know xyz happened and that one time when the feds were closing in they did

409
00:28:01,868 --> 00:28:05,568
this but then he escaped through the sewer and no one saw that coming so oh my god you know

410
00:28:05,568 --> 00:28:10,768
they go is that his skill or did he just was he just really good at wiggling when he needed to and

411
00:28:10,768 --> 00:28:16,808
and the thing that kept him safe was probably more a roll of the dice and you know the universe

412
00:28:16,808 --> 00:28:20,868
lining up more than anything else so i think it's really difficult to kind of pin down like

413
00:28:20,868 --> 00:28:25,568
what makes it, what makes anybody be successful? And that's true. If they're a corporate raider,

414
00:28:25,748 --> 00:28:31,048
a CEO, you know, those same sort of hierarchies you go, how did this guy get chosen? This guy,

415
00:28:31,108 --> 00:28:36,608
not, and you can look at any number of things, professional sports acting. There was a guy I

416
00:28:36,608 --> 00:28:40,968
knew that was an actor. He'd been acting for 15 years. He came down to a role that would have been

417
00:28:40,968 --> 00:28:46,888
life-changing for him as him and for the guys. And he didn't get it. One guy got the role and

418
00:28:46,888 --> 00:28:50,528
is probably going to go on TV shows and go, yeah, man, I got here because I worked hard and I did

419
00:28:50,528 --> 00:28:55,748
this and you know reasons and there's three other guys that did exactly the same thing and it could

420
00:28:55,748 --> 00:29:00,348
have literally come down to like i don't know i kind of like that guy's eyebrows yeah me too like

421
00:29:00,348 --> 00:29:04,208
he's got those kind of great eyebrows like these are these guys are all great but that one guy just

422
00:29:04,208 --> 00:29:09,488
his eyebrows are just you know they'll never say on david letterman or whatever whoever's talking

423
00:29:09,488 --> 00:29:14,168
on talk shows these days like oh well i got chosen because i had great eyebrows like these other guys

424
00:29:14,168 --> 00:29:17,128
were probably way better than me but it was my eyebrows that just really put me over the line

425
00:29:17,128 --> 00:29:23,028
they'll never say that kind of stuff right so it's uh i hope i'm not just rambling here but

426
00:29:23,028 --> 00:29:29,168
it's interesting which sort of uh in in that respect like how even just like maybe missing

427
00:29:29,168 --> 00:29:33,968
a piece of mail could change your whole life yeah oh yeah it does for everybody all the time

428
00:29:33,968 --> 00:29:38,608
uh you know and how interesting that would be where you know something i saw in the book is

429
00:29:38,608 --> 00:29:44,768
where does sheriff come from that's a pretty big role in the states yeah that was the shiree that

430
00:29:44,768 --> 00:29:50,708
was actually a new one on me too uh i remember i first read about that in law school and the shire

431
00:29:50,708 --> 00:29:58,948
reeve uh you know back when in english shires each shire would hire or elect or however you

432
00:29:58,948 --> 00:30:04,308
choose a reeve and the reeve was kind of the spokesperson for the shire but part of the english

433
00:30:04,308 --> 00:30:10,608
honor system back then is much like the you know the modern day gang system like you're part of my

434
00:30:10,608 --> 00:30:15,448
family, if you screw up, we have to punish you. It's not, the town's not going to come and take

435
00:30:15,448 --> 00:30:19,368
care of you. We're going to take care of you. And so the Shire Reeve was simultaneously like the

436
00:30:19,368 --> 00:30:23,568
person that would kind of be a spokesperson for the Shire. They would be a person that would kind

437
00:30:23,568 --> 00:30:28,928
of, you know, mediate disputes. They would be the sort of public, like wrangle the drunks and

438
00:30:28,928 --> 00:30:34,968
maintain order kind of thing. So they became like this sort of de facto pseudo elected leader of the

439
00:30:34,968 --> 00:30:39,428
Shire. And then the Shires would each send their Shire Reeves to the Shire Reeve conference every

440
00:30:39,428 --> 00:30:43,168
year and they'd have, you know, swag bags or whatever. I don't know what they did back then.

441
00:30:43,648 --> 00:30:48,408
But that position sort of developed out of that and became formalized. And we still call it

442
00:30:48,408 --> 00:30:53,328
a Shiree to this day. It's called a sheriff. And if you kind of look at the constitutional history

443
00:30:53,328 --> 00:30:56,528
of a sheriff and you'll see these like constitutional sheriffs around the world, like

444
00:30:56,528 --> 00:31:04,268
they occupy a very, very unique position in the legal authority scheme because they are somewhat

445
00:31:04,268 --> 00:31:07,088
but immune to like some of these constitutional mandates.

446
00:31:07,808 --> 00:31:23,936
They are not immune to county budget you know allocations though So they can come out and say I a constitutionalist I never follow this law And the County board can go well we not going to fund your department So good luck being you know whatever you think you going to do So they have practical

447
00:31:23,936 --> 00:31:29,176
constraints on it, mostly related to money. But in terms of like the on paper authority that they

448
00:31:29,176 --> 00:31:33,756
wield within the County, it's actually a pretty powerful position. So yeah, but it's a fascinating

449
00:31:33,756 --> 00:31:37,696
evolution of things, I think. And that was one of the reasons I put it in there is because it kind

450
00:31:37,696 --> 00:31:42,516
of shows like how these early power structures develop and, and sort of the reasons behind why

451
00:31:42,516 --> 00:31:46,756
we create these power structures. But it, it sort of advances all the way through to where you end

452
00:31:46,756 --> 00:31:51,456
up with like officers of the court and, and, you know, the chancery courts and the ecclesiastical

453
00:31:51,456 --> 00:31:56,516
courts all sort of merging into like the common courts we have today. And, and the way all these

454
00:31:56,516 --> 00:32:03,696
power structures sort of coalesce into these very grand institutions that are by design intimidating,

455
00:32:03,816 --> 00:32:07,316
right? Like, I don't know if you've ever been to a court of law, but just walking into that little

456
00:32:07,316 --> 00:32:11,396
room. It's, it's, I mean, for the most part, the furniture kind of sucks. The decor isn't all that

457
00:32:11,396 --> 00:32:15,516
great, but you know, if you kind of look around, you go, Oh yeah, this, these are like all the

458
00:32:15,516 --> 00:32:20,796
trappings of projected soft power, like the stuff like Jason Lowery talk about, but you know, the

459
00:32:20,796 --> 00:32:24,076
bigger, the higher up that ladder you go, like if you ever walked in the Supreme court, that's a

460
00:32:24,076 --> 00:32:28,816
vastly different experience, you know? And, and it's like these, this sort of sense of being

461
00:32:28,816 --> 00:32:32,376
hallowed ground and all this kind of stuff. And the attorneys, like the first time a guy walks in

462
00:32:32,376 --> 00:32:36,536
there as an attorney is just like shaking in his boots, but that's, you know, the projection of,

463
00:32:36,536 --> 00:32:42,836
of that soft power so uh yeah but that that's the sort of nutshell version of the shire reef

464
00:32:42,836 --> 00:32:47,136
turning into our modern day sheriff and and at least the vestiges of it i should say it's not

465
00:32:47,136 --> 00:32:52,276
quite exactly the same thing but but it's a very formalized version of the at least that's where

466
00:32:52,276 --> 00:32:59,676
the name comes from how did things drastically change for sort of humans in competitive resource

467
00:32:59,676 --> 00:33:05,776
acquisition with like going from a hunter-gatherer to sort of agricultural?

468
00:33:06,156 --> 00:33:06,916
Well, that's the thing.

469
00:33:07,016 --> 00:33:11,696
Like if you go look through the archaeological record, and it's fascinating to bring that

470
00:33:11,696 --> 00:33:11,916
up.

471
00:33:11,956 --> 00:33:16,096
I think it's a great question because I think that's sort of the crux of the shift that

472
00:33:16,096 --> 00:33:17,276
I talk about in the book.

473
00:33:17,336 --> 00:33:22,816
Because there are examples, there are historical, like anthropological and archaeological evidence

474
00:33:22,816 --> 00:33:27,556
of like large-scale conflict amongst what you might call pure hunter-gatherers, hunter-gatherers

475
00:33:27,556 --> 00:33:29,396
that don't practice sedentism.

476
00:33:29,676 --> 00:33:31,776
and they consume as they go kind of thing.

477
00:33:32,556 --> 00:33:36,196
And 99 times out of 100, it's because one group came along and said,

478
00:33:36,256 --> 00:33:37,776
hey, man, this fishing hole is pretty cool.

479
00:33:38,356 --> 00:33:39,916
How about we just keep the fishing hole?

480
00:33:40,336 --> 00:33:42,076
Instead of moving around, we're just going to like,

481
00:33:42,156 --> 00:33:43,256
this is our fishing hole now.

482
00:33:43,516 --> 00:33:45,936
And then the other group that's used to coming by will go like,

483
00:33:45,976 --> 00:33:46,816
hey, guys, how's it going?

484
00:33:46,916 --> 00:33:47,736
We came to get some fish.

485
00:33:47,816 --> 00:33:49,056
They go, no, you can't have any fish anymore.

486
00:33:49,136 --> 00:33:49,896
They go, what are you talking about?

487
00:33:50,296 --> 00:33:51,556
This is just like the fishing hole.

488
00:33:51,656 --> 00:33:53,136
They go, yeah, but it's our fishing hole now.

489
00:33:53,176 --> 00:33:54,876
And you go, what do you mean your fishing hole?

490
00:33:54,936 --> 00:33:56,036
Like God gave you a fishing hole?

491
00:33:56,036 --> 00:33:56,636
What are you talking about?

492
00:33:56,636 --> 00:33:58,916
Like this is – it's nature's bounty.

493
00:33:58,916 --> 00:34:02,676
Like you can't just keep something like you can't just have land.

494
00:34:02,756 --> 00:34:03,416
What are you talking about?

495
00:34:03,716 --> 00:34:04,956
And then they duke it out.

496
00:34:04,956 --> 00:34:05,216
Right.

497
00:34:05,236 --> 00:34:08,296
And they would turn into these really, really horrific battles.

498
00:34:08,736 --> 00:34:14,956
So it's almost inevitably when someone tries to like exclude others from a shared resource

499
00:34:14,956 --> 00:34:20,576
or when they have the ability to hoard a necessary resource is when you start seeing people go

500
00:34:20,576 --> 00:34:23,896
like, hey, I don't, I don't like you took all the deer.

501
00:34:23,976 --> 00:34:24,236
Right.

502
00:34:24,276 --> 00:34:26,036
So they get mad and then they start fighting about it.

503
00:34:26,036 --> 00:34:32,376
agriculture sort of accelerates that process because like if you're some 22 year old kid who

504
00:34:32,376 --> 00:34:35,316
just got kicked out of your last village and you're wandering around in the forest and you're kind of

505
00:34:35,316 --> 00:34:39,136
hungry and you look over and you see this little like farming village and you notice there's a

506
00:34:39,136 --> 00:34:43,536
bunch of fat plump people sitting around just you know hoeing the grass and you know plucking

507
00:34:43,536 --> 00:34:47,836
potatoes or whatever they're doing you go well i could go and offer to work for these people but

508
00:34:47,836 --> 00:34:51,276
the last time i did that they all got pissy with me and they called me a jerk and they kicked me

509
00:34:51,276 --> 00:34:53,116
out of the village or whatever.

510
00:34:53,696 --> 00:34:56,036
But now I'm kind of a big, strong 22-year-old.

511
00:34:56,916 --> 00:34:58,156
I'm full of piss and vinegar,

512
00:34:58,296 --> 00:35:00,176
and I bet you I could just go beat the hell out of that guy

513
00:35:00,176 --> 00:35:00,956
and take his potatoes.

514
00:35:01,796 --> 00:35:03,056
That might work out pretty good.

515
00:35:03,236 --> 00:35:05,636
You mentioned, like, tournament style in the book.

516
00:35:06,576 --> 00:35:06,676
Right.

517
00:35:06,676 --> 00:35:09,576
Or, you know, how does that sort of –

518
00:35:09,576 --> 00:35:11,036
what was the lesson we saw there,

519
00:35:11,076 --> 00:35:13,596
and how would you explain what you meant by tournament style?

520
00:35:13,896 --> 00:35:15,796
Well, I mean, if you look at, like, the competitions,

521
00:35:16,236 --> 00:35:19,776
these were tournaments for, you know, like, you know,

522
00:35:19,776 --> 00:35:24,016
back in the day, like if you talk about the European continent in general,

523
00:35:24,116 --> 00:35:26,796
right? Like they would feel these big armies, they would go,

524
00:35:26,916 --> 00:35:29,456
and it was essentially a tournament. They would go out and stand in the field and go,

525
00:35:29,556 --> 00:35:30,976
okay, we're going to put our guys against your guys.

526
00:35:31,036 --> 00:35:33,456
I'm going to see who wins, whoever wins that tournament.

527
00:35:33,736 --> 00:35:36,476
Then they go, okay, well, what's the prize? Well, you get to keep this keep,

528
00:35:36,536 --> 00:35:39,976
you get to keep this castle, my goats, whatever it was. Right.

529
00:35:39,996 --> 00:35:42,456
So it's, it becomes a tournament style competition,

530
00:35:42,456 --> 00:35:45,256
but it also because of that tournament style,

531
00:35:45,256 --> 00:35:48,316
like they wouldn't necessarily just go and lay siege to stuff. Right.

532
00:35:48,316 --> 00:35:54,076
Like, I mean, that could happen. That would happen. But far more common were these battles.

533
00:35:54,216 --> 00:36:00,716
I mean, there's historical accounts of these big epic battles all throughout history where two two armies march in.

534
00:36:01,576 --> 00:36:08,136
And it's not till later that you start seeing wars of attrition and, you know, the kinds of wars that like World War Two was and World War One was.

535
00:36:08,616 --> 00:36:14,136
World War Two was probably the penultimate version of like the war of attrition kind of thing.

536
00:36:14,136 --> 00:36:21,576
Like we're going to throw massive resources and destroy everything trying to win this, whatever they're trying to win, whatever prize they're trying to capture.

537
00:36:22,356 --> 00:36:27,356
But, you know, prior to that, and even there, they have tournament style competitions.

538
00:36:27,416 --> 00:36:34,936
Like, and I say it's a tournament because if you look at like the way it resolves, like it's two guys in a tent sipping tea going, okay, well, I guess you won this one, Tom.

539
00:36:36,196 --> 00:36:37,516
Where else does that happen?

540
00:36:37,596 --> 00:36:39,136
That happens at the end of a match, right?

541
00:36:39,136 --> 00:36:45,976
Like that's not, you know, one guy standing over the other guy and his face is in the money, drives a sword to the back of his head and goes, yeah, that proves we won.

542
00:36:46,076 --> 00:36:49,896
You know, it's, it's guys that, that parlay and talk about things when they're done.

543
00:36:50,416 --> 00:36:55,776
But there's a couple of guys in control of that and they just field their armies and whoever, you know, comes out.

544
00:36:56,396 --> 00:37:01,836
But the beauty of the tournament style competition is that it breeds a lot of innovation, right?

545
00:37:01,836 --> 00:37:08,256
Because if you're in a competition, you go, well, hey, you know, last time we went out there, like we sank to our knees in mud.

546
00:37:08,256 --> 00:37:09,796
and maybe we should make lighter armor.

547
00:37:09,956 --> 00:37:11,996
Maybe we should get something that can throw a rock further,

548
00:37:12,216 --> 00:37:12,996
whatever it is.

549
00:37:13,236 --> 00:37:14,256
They're always seeking advantage.

550
00:37:14,416 --> 00:37:18,036
So that advantage seeking tends to foster innovation,

551
00:37:18,156 --> 00:37:20,856
especially if there's a massive playing field

552
00:37:20,856 --> 00:37:22,496
for these competitions to take place.

553
00:37:22,496 --> 00:37:24,696
Like the innovation occurs a lot quicker

554
00:37:24,696 --> 00:37:27,156
because you learn from both losing and winning

555
00:37:27,156 --> 00:37:29,476
and you kind of go, oh, hey, that was a pretty good idea.

556
00:37:29,556 --> 00:37:31,016
Like those guys ran off in a pack

557
00:37:31,016 --> 00:37:32,256
and then they came around behind us

558
00:37:32,256 --> 00:37:33,176
and just beat the hell out of us.

559
00:37:33,256 --> 00:37:34,456
That was a great idea.

560
00:37:34,616 --> 00:37:35,776
We should do that too, you know?

561
00:37:35,776 --> 00:37:38,956
so that's kind of the development of that

562
00:37:38,956 --> 00:37:41,776
and the point of that in the book was like

563
00:37:41,776 --> 00:37:44,876
it tended, you know, people say, oh, it's because Europeans are more advanced

564
00:37:44,876 --> 00:37:47,656
or more this and more that, but if you kind of look at the way the

565
00:37:47,656 --> 00:37:50,576
Asian dynasties did things, they didn't necessarily, you know,

566
00:37:50,696 --> 00:37:53,676
compete that way. They would certainly have fights

567
00:37:53,676 --> 00:37:56,656
and they would certainly squabble over things, but it wasn't like, hey, you get

568
00:37:56,656 --> 00:37:59,396
your armor together, I'll get my armor together, I'll meet you at 10 o'clock on Sunday

569
00:37:59,396 --> 00:38:02,476
and we'll just duke it out and see who wins, you know, and so

570
00:38:02,476 --> 00:38:05,476
the argument, at least that one paper that I was referencing in there

571
00:38:05,476 --> 00:38:10,016
was like, well, that's why their military tactics kind of fell behind their European counterparts,

572
00:38:10,156 --> 00:38:13,956
despite China having a 2,000-year head start on civilization, arguably.

573
00:38:14,836 --> 00:38:16,876
So that was sort of what that was about.

574
00:38:17,156 --> 00:38:20,556
But I mean, if I may, I can kind of trace back to what I was saying before

575
00:38:20,556 --> 00:38:23,716
with the young men capturing resources and things like that.

576
00:38:24,996 --> 00:38:29,056
If that's not too much of a diversion, we can keep going where we're headed right now if you want.

577
00:38:29,296 --> 00:38:29,796
No, please.

578
00:38:30,036 --> 00:38:34,716
Well, there's just an interesting thing, like the FIANA was what I was going to talk about.

579
00:38:34,716 --> 00:38:44,376
And the Fiannau were like these – they're romanticized today and they said, oh, these were young men that were cast out from their homes and they would band together in the forest and they would go on adventures.

580
00:38:44,696 --> 00:38:50,136
And to get accepted, you have to prove bravery in battle and write a poem or sing a song or stuff like that.

581
00:38:50,196 --> 00:38:54,756
And I go, do you not see the parallel to modern gang initiation rituals?

582
00:38:54,756 --> 00:38:59,616
You go, hey, we're a bunch of young men that have been cast out from our neighborhoods or homes or families, whatever.

583
00:38:59,616 --> 00:39:06,556
we band together so we can capture resources ourselves on the margins of society and how do

584
00:39:06,556 --> 00:39:10,496
you get in well you got to do an act of bravery and you got to prove yourself in combat well they

585
00:39:10,496 --> 00:39:14,636
get jumped in and they got to go and like go rob that store and that'll prove that you're a badass

586
00:39:14,636 --> 00:39:18,936
and you know do this and that and hey if you got some dope flows and some good rhymes man like

587
00:39:18,936 --> 00:39:24,716
that's added bonus like you're obviously a you're obviously worth rolling with us but it's the same

588
00:39:24,716 --> 00:39:29,956
process and this thing has been going on for 12,000 years like all the time there's a bunch of

589
00:39:29,956 --> 00:39:33,736
young men to get disenfranchised and they run off and then they form these little gangs and they do

590
00:39:33,736 --> 00:39:39,236
crazy stuff out in the forest or out in the you know city streets but if they get clever enough

591
00:39:39,236 --> 00:39:44,756
and they get powerful enough and they gather enough power behind them they suddenly become

592
00:39:44,756 --> 00:39:50,776
a transformative force and you can hear naive bukele to this day goes hey you know back when

593
00:39:50,776 --> 00:39:56,656
ms-13 was effectively running our country all the ngos and all the political bodies were telling

594
00:39:56,656 --> 00:40:02,076
them you should form a political party but what you mean the guys with the like the devil tattoo

595
00:40:02,076 --> 00:40:06,536
on their face and the thing and they're you know using machetes to cut people's heads off and leave

596
00:40:06,536 --> 00:40:11,796
them on the fountain square like those guys should form a party why is that because they were able to

597
00:40:11,796 --> 00:40:17,696
capture sufficient resources to be a political force right so when i say in the book like all

598
00:40:17,696 --> 00:40:24,696
means of power capture are valid that's what i'm talking about if you as you know the bloods or

599
00:40:24,696 --> 00:40:29,416
crips or ms-13 or whoever can wield sufficient force and authority where the authorities cannot

600
00:40:29,416 --> 00:40:35,036
counter you anymore then you're a power to be dealt with in the region and you can ascend

601
00:40:35,036 --> 00:40:39,956
political legitimacy just by being strong enough to take power from people that are in power if

602
00:40:39,956 --> 00:40:44,636
that makes sense so yeah but that was my little diversion back i wanted to kind of cover but yeah

603
00:40:44,636 --> 00:40:49,956
That's important. So I really want to break, I want to get into this chapter about authority.

604
00:40:50,436 --> 00:40:51,036
Oh, yeah, please.

605
00:40:51,256 --> 00:41:02,756
It seems like around 12,000 years ago, prior to the advent of agriculture and animal husbandry, pure hunter gatherers were different.

606
00:41:02,856 --> 00:41:05,656
They didn't create these types of social structures and rule-based systems.

607
00:41:05,996 --> 00:41:10,096
So what was different? What kind of rule-based systems then get created?

608
00:41:10,096 --> 00:41:18,216
and what about like because this talks about like cooperative effort is is is that the normal state

609
00:41:18,216 --> 00:41:23,756
of human beings to be cooperative and are we all looking to be in competition with each other

610
00:41:23,756 --> 00:41:28,556
is that the natural state well i mean that's the funny thing about it is like i think people

611
00:41:28,556 --> 00:41:33,236
conflate the idea of like competition for scarce resources because that's a very common trope they

612
00:41:33,236 --> 00:41:38,476
go life is a competition for scarce resources i go well not really i mean resources are abundant

613
00:41:38,476 --> 00:41:40,756
But there can be competitions in the near term.

614
00:41:41,136 --> 00:41:47,016
But if you look at it from a from like a broader lens, you go, well, that's just homeostasis is what we call that.

615
00:41:47,016 --> 00:41:48,636
Like, hey, that wolf ate that deer.

616
00:41:48,756 --> 00:41:55,156
OK, well, you know, things are in better balance because if the wolf doesn't eat the deer, then so it looks like a competition between the wolf and the deer.

617
00:41:55,156 --> 00:42:01,456
But in a bigger picture, you go, well, the ecosystem is now better off because the balancing mechanism worked.

618
00:42:01,456 --> 00:42:08,096
and so when human beings were part of that balancing mechanism there is no real need to

619
00:42:08,096 --> 00:42:14,396
have to form a power hierarchy like like i said before they you know those societies tend to be

620
00:42:14,396 --> 00:42:18,416
very egalitarian if you go down there's modern day examples like you can go visit the hazda

621
00:42:18,416 --> 00:42:22,356
i think they're in tanzania or nambibia or wherever they are right now go hey can i hang

622
00:42:22,356 --> 00:42:25,616
out with you guys for a little bit and go hey who's the leader what are you talking about like

623
00:42:25,616 --> 00:42:29,616
what do you mean leader like there's no we just kind of do shit you know like there's nobody

624
00:42:29,616 --> 00:42:33,556
telling us what to do and when we're supposed to do it. But, but there's that sort of shared,

625
00:42:33,556 --> 00:42:37,536
like if a lion comes and they're all sort of saying they're, they're all going to gang up

626
00:42:37,536 --> 00:42:41,896
and go, Nope, we're all, we're one right now. That thing's a problem. We're going to deal with it,

627
00:42:41,896 --> 00:42:45,616
but no one has to tell them to do it. Right. They, they just work together cooperatively.

628
00:42:45,916 --> 00:42:49,396
If there's old people in the village and I'll go, Hey, Tom, you're not pulling your weight anymore.

629
00:42:49,396 --> 00:42:54,136
So just go die. Right. They feed the old, they feel they feed the young, but wolves do this.

630
00:42:54,136 --> 00:43:01,756
So like all pack animals take care of the weak and the young and the elderly because that's how the pack survives, right?

631
00:43:02,216 --> 00:43:05,196
And I think humans do the same thing.

632
00:43:05,356 --> 00:43:08,276
Does that mean people don't like go, I bet you I run faster than you?

633
00:43:08,376 --> 00:43:08,956
Well, of course.

634
00:43:09,136 --> 00:43:13,196
You know, people enjoy competition like in gamesmanship and things like that.

635
00:43:13,656 --> 00:43:18,156
But it doesn't necessarily equate to power struggles and power competitions, right?

636
00:43:18,616 --> 00:43:22,736
The power competition starts showing up when one person says, hey, these are all mine.

637
00:43:22,816 --> 00:43:23,516
You can't have any.

638
00:43:23,516 --> 00:43:29,056
and someone else goes, well, I kind of like those things and I'm pretty sure I can take it from you.

639
00:43:29,156 --> 00:43:32,596
So I'm going to try, you know, and then you've got a very different kind of competition that's

640
00:43:32,596 --> 00:43:38,396
evolved from there. So I would say the natural inclination for human beings is cooperation,

641
00:43:38,396 --> 00:43:45,216
almost universally, even in competitive resource capture economies, the group that cooperates the

642
00:43:45,216 --> 00:43:50,916
best tends to be the one that is more successful in tournament style competitions, in combat, in,

643
00:43:50,916 --> 00:44:01,096
And, you know, like the entire essence of team building and team sports like football, baseball, any of those things, soccer, those are all squad level tactics, right?

644
00:44:01,116 --> 00:44:07,536
To teach squad level coordination under somewhat like a leader of that group, right?

645
00:44:07,556 --> 00:44:09,056
Like the team captain or whatever it is.

646
00:44:09,416 --> 00:44:12,416
And it's mimicking combat roles, right?

647
00:44:12,416 --> 00:44:16,916
And the pressure of playing live in front of an audience adds to that pressure.

648
00:44:17,116 --> 00:44:20,096
It's like simulated combat just without the death and destruction.

649
00:44:20,096 --> 00:44:27,736
But if a team is not cooperating, if you've got two like egomaniacs on the team and they don't pass the ball to each other or whatever it is, they're always squabbling.

650
00:44:27,996 --> 00:44:35,356
A team doesn't do very well. So it's cooperation is cornerstone of success, even if there are two groups in competition, if that makes sense.

651
00:44:35,356 --> 00:44:40,016
yeah it seems to me like the turning point in human history and i from like the way i read the

652
00:44:40,016 --> 00:44:45,516
book is that uh hunter gatherers in my mind the way i'm thinking about this is we're all out here

653
00:44:45,516 --> 00:44:50,656
trying to do our our best for ourselves catch whatever food i could eat today maybe i'll eat

654
00:44:50,656 --> 00:44:55,236
a little bit of it tomorrow gotta do it all over again all of us are kind of like doing it all over

655
00:44:55,236 --> 00:44:59,736
again every day maybe i catch enough to grow family a little bit maybe catch enough for my

656
00:44:59,736 --> 00:45:04,816
parents my kids my grandkids whatever do it all over again we're all in it together

657
00:45:04,816 --> 00:45:11,496
all of a sudden uh maybe we start cooperating but for some reason uh you know we start herding

658
00:45:11,496 --> 00:45:17,616
animals goats and growing corn whatever it is but you know uh we work together to do that but

659
00:45:17,616 --> 00:45:24,036
kind of at the end of the day like one guy's got 200 goats and one girl's got all the corn

660
00:45:24,036 --> 00:45:29,376
and all of a sudden it's like well like we're not all out here starting over every day

661
00:45:29,376 --> 00:45:32,396
this guy's got all the goats

662
00:45:32,396 --> 00:45:33,496
and maybe like

663
00:45:33,496 --> 00:45:36,096
you know now I'm starting to think about

664
00:45:36,096 --> 00:45:38,076
you know what power or authority

665
00:45:38,076 --> 00:45:39,656
does he have and what

666
00:45:39,656 --> 00:45:41,896
you know kind of from the book

667
00:45:41,896 --> 00:45:42,636
it's like well

668
00:45:42,636 --> 00:45:45,476
there's power but like

669
00:45:45,476 --> 00:45:47,776
and there's rules but

670
00:45:47,776 --> 00:45:50,016
there's no rules because if I can get those goats

671
00:45:50,016 --> 00:45:51,296
and feed my family

672
00:45:51,296 --> 00:45:53,636
they're my goats now and if I can

673
00:45:53,636 --> 00:45:55,636
out you know

674
00:45:55,636 --> 00:45:57,516
gun this person they're mine

675
00:45:57,516 --> 00:46:23,656
Well, I think you're spot on. I mean, I think that's the shift, right? Like when it gets to a place where people are by choice or necessity need to exclude others from a resource, that's when people start fighting. When the fighting starts is when the structure starts forming, right? It's like if you put two kids in a room and go, hey, whoever gets that ball first wins, right? And go, you know, and there's no prize even. You just tell two kids go get the ball.

676
00:46:23,656 --> 00:46:27,316
who were, you know, they're going to start squabbling within about 45 minutes. Like,

677
00:46:27,376 --> 00:46:30,476
Hey, that wasn't fair. You did this, you did that. Oh yeah, but I got the ball. I won,

678
00:46:30,536 --> 00:46:34,756
but you know, over nothing, like quite literally nothing, just a fiction that you created

679
00:46:34,756 --> 00:46:40,756
by walking in a room. You can encourage these kids to fight within 30 minutes just by saying

680
00:46:40,756 --> 00:46:45,616
whoever wins this is the best, you know? So when you're actually talking about survival resources,

681
00:46:45,616 --> 00:46:58,664
because if you look at most like small holds back in the day like early medieval or early England let say or at least English continent or island you can look at it and go well how much were they able to store It like

682
00:46:58,684 --> 00:47:02,064
oh God, almost nothing, dude. Like those guys were lucky if their potatoes came up because they

683
00:47:02,064 --> 00:47:05,904
didn't understand anything. Right. But they, they kind of got by, but they're also like a mix. Like

684
00:47:05,904 --> 00:47:09,484
they grow some potatoes, but they still had to go out and forage. They still had to go and hunt.

685
00:47:09,484 --> 00:47:12,404
They still had to go do this stuff, but they had like a settlement going on. Right.

686
00:47:12,404 --> 00:47:17,704
but the second you put down roots the second you become sedentary when you got the fiona when you

687
00:47:17,704 --> 00:47:23,464
got the local gang coming by they can go well man i'm hungry too last time we tried to kill an elk

688
00:47:23,464 --> 00:47:28,424
tom got gored that kind of sucked but hey look there's that plump little lady down there's got

689
00:47:28,424 --> 00:47:32,584
a bag full of potatoes we can just go take potatoes that's like way easier than fighting

690
00:47:32,584 --> 00:47:37,344
an elk and i think they got some elk in there like let's go get that right so the second those

691
00:47:37,344 --> 00:47:41,224
guys come and do that then they've stolen something and and once you have that theft

692
00:47:41,224 --> 00:47:45,444
then the natural thing is to retaliate or to try and get back or to defend or whatnot.

693
00:47:45,444 --> 00:47:52,204
And you can see these power systems just evolve dynamically from just that one act of like,

694
00:47:52,504 --> 00:47:54,384
I want, you have, I'm taking, you know.

695
00:47:55,344 --> 00:48:02,804
So regardless of how it develops, most of them don't develop in, like Afghanistan has been ruled by warlords

696
00:48:02,804 --> 00:48:04,704
for since the Soviets left.

697
00:48:05,184 --> 00:48:10,004
And despite the U.S. intervention, you know, the 20 years of them just kind of trying to wrangle goats,

698
00:48:10,004 --> 00:48:14,804
They never managed to overcome the tribalism in that country.

699
00:48:15,084 --> 00:48:15,984
And they're right back to it.

700
00:48:16,184 --> 00:48:25,544
But they have a loose coalition of warlords that all say, well, hey, we're going to use some religious doctrine to sort of normalize behavior as much as we can.

701
00:48:26,264 --> 00:48:31,384
And if you combine – all your gangs are all together and now you have a godly purpose.

702
00:48:31,664 --> 00:48:35,464
It gives you a lot of legitimacy in the people that you're trying to govern, so to speak.

703
00:48:35,864 --> 00:48:37,564
And it also gives you a rule book to follow.

704
00:48:37,864 --> 00:48:38,724
Hey, did you steal that?

705
00:48:38,724 --> 00:48:39,744
Yeah, we'll cut off his hand.

706
00:48:39,744 --> 00:48:58,744
Right. Like there's no like, let's talk about it. Let's bring in some evidence. Let's see if he's got some witnesses. And they just go, no, no, no. We're just going to, you know, because that brings a lot of order to the chaos that's going on. But it also tends to hinder things like how well the country can survive. Right. So those institutions help with thriving under a power system.

707
00:48:58,744 --> 00:49:04,004
system, but absent the institution, the next level down is like, well, we got to prevent

708
00:49:04,004 --> 00:49:04,504
the chaos.

709
00:49:04,604 --> 00:49:08,524
We got to prevent people from eating each other in the streets and being batshit crazy.

710
00:49:08,684 --> 00:49:13,064
We need some stability here because otherwise it's just, it's intolerable.

711
00:49:13,064 --> 00:49:14,244
Like no one can stand it.

712
00:49:14,284 --> 00:49:15,504
The gang leaders can't stand it.

713
00:49:15,844 --> 00:49:17,284
They're just killing each other.

714
00:49:17,424 --> 00:49:20,464
The people can't stand it because they're starving and you know, everybody's miserable.

715
00:49:20,584 --> 00:49:21,264
Everything sucks.

716
00:49:21,864 --> 00:49:25,984
And so somebody comes in to try and fix the mess is kind of what it boils down to, you

717
00:49:25,984 --> 00:49:26,144
know?

718
00:49:26,424 --> 00:49:26,784
Right.

719
00:49:26,784 --> 00:49:29,444
We need some rules here just to get some order.

720
00:49:30,184 --> 00:49:33,324
The more rules we get, the way people are going to cheat.

721
00:49:34,504 --> 00:49:44,104
But it seems like the arc you're painting for me is that we've gone to a place where things could be, you could describe, you could say this is bad.

722
00:49:44,304 --> 00:49:53,384
But we're in a much better place because if we're in this place like with Afghanistan warlords or in Iraq after the war, it's like there's in-group and out-groups.

723
00:49:53,484 --> 00:49:56,304
And you have to be in one of them to survive.

724
00:49:56,304 --> 00:49:59,664
Because if you're in no group, you're kind of going to be like just random shrapnel.

725
00:50:00,164 --> 00:50:01,624
And you're going to get hit.

726
00:50:01,804 --> 00:50:03,384
So now you've got to jump in a group.

727
00:50:04,064 --> 00:50:07,824
But even that sucks because now you've got to do all the things the group expects of you.

728
00:50:08,664 --> 00:50:11,824
And maybe in this situation, it's things you don't want to do, right?

729
00:50:12,324 --> 00:50:14,084
And you've got to be lucky to survive.

730
00:50:14,204 --> 00:50:15,364
You've got to be good and lucky.

731
00:50:16,224 --> 00:50:16,544
Right.

732
00:50:16,824 --> 00:50:17,024
Right.

733
00:50:17,124 --> 00:50:17,264
Yeah.

734
00:50:17,544 --> 00:50:21,144
And it's like going through – it's like being hazed or going through the meat grinder.

735
00:50:21,144 --> 00:50:25,824
and if you're really good at it you get to the top where everybody wants to kill you in like an

736
00:50:25,824 --> 00:50:30,284
invert like your enemies want to kill you at the bottom in a way but when you get the top now

737
00:50:30,284 --> 00:50:36,144
everyone inside the group wants your job right it wants to be you and the better you are at it the

738
00:50:36,144 --> 00:50:41,984
higher you go but like i feel bad for people just like i don't want to play this game and it's almost

739
00:50:41,984 --> 00:50:47,584
like the game picks you um and it seems like in america a place like america it's just a more

740
00:50:47,584 --> 00:50:49,664
civilized version of the game

741
00:50:49,664 --> 00:50:51,664
where the outcomes

742
00:50:51,664 --> 00:50:53,764
have been muted down so that people don't

743
00:50:53,764 --> 00:50:55,204
die every day from

744
00:50:55,204 --> 00:50:57,544
the randomness of the game.

745
00:50:58,564 --> 00:50:59,804
And so you can't

746
00:50:59,804 --> 00:51:01,664
maybe ascend as much, but you can't descend

747
00:51:01,664 --> 00:51:03,764
as quickly either. And it's a little

748
00:51:03,764 --> 00:51:05,584
more civilized in some way.

749
00:51:05,584 --> 00:51:07,484
But that kind of brings us to

750
00:51:07,484 --> 00:51:09,424
like our authority.

751
00:51:10,724 --> 00:51:11,284
Right. And

752
00:51:11,284 --> 00:51:13,824
sort of like where do you know

753
00:51:13,824 --> 00:51:15,404
had like what is our authority?

754
00:51:15,604 --> 00:51:16,744
Like who gets to

755
00:51:16,744 --> 00:51:22,104
like how would you describe what authority is maybe in the context of like a sport or a game

756
00:51:22,104 --> 00:51:26,244
well i think the authority like the way i kind of frame it in the book is like the person who's

757
00:51:26,244 --> 00:51:31,244
the authority is the one that gets to make the rules right so if if two of you meet in a field

758
00:51:31,244 --> 00:51:36,144
and there are no rules and you go this is our field now and you duke it out and you fight it

759
00:51:36,144 --> 00:51:39,904
out and then your group comes out on top and you happen to be the leader of that group well now you

760
00:51:39,904 --> 00:51:44,824
get to make the rules for what happens on the field you guys get to farm here you guys get to

761
00:51:44,824 --> 00:51:48,624
do this. I'm the authority here because I took this and you can't take it from me. No one else

762
00:51:48,624 --> 00:51:53,124
can. And that's the cornerstone of sovereignty. And that's the peace of Westphalia. And that's

763
00:51:53,124 --> 00:51:57,384
that whole treaty that they came up with. They sort of delineated like, well, you guys have been

764
00:51:57,384 --> 00:52:00,764
duking it out over here for this amount of time. And it looks like you've got pretty good control

765
00:52:00,764 --> 00:52:03,864
of it. And we've been duking it out here. So let's just draw a line between the two and say,

766
00:52:03,904 --> 00:52:07,744
that's yours. This is ours. And we won't argue about it anymore. They go, okay, great. But

767
00:52:07,744 --> 00:52:13,204
obviously they did. So when you're in authority, you are the person that is able to make the rules

768
00:52:13,204 --> 00:52:18,664
for the resources under your control, right? And when I talk about a game of competitive resource

769
00:52:18,664 --> 00:52:22,544
capture, you go, well, the barest essential of that game is like, I need to capture some food.

770
00:52:22,744 --> 00:52:27,664
Now I control food. And when you can control food, then you can go, well, now I'm a little

771
00:52:27,664 --> 00:52:31,124
bit stronger. I'm a little bit better fed. I can get more people on my side because I got all this

772
00:52:31,124 --> 00:52:35,484
extra food laying around. So now I got like 10 guys that can go. And how about we just take over

773
00:52:35,484 --> 00:52:39,784
this land? We don't want to farm the land. There's already people on the land. We can just make them

774
00:52:39,784 --> 00:52:43,604
keep farming and then we just keep getting food so that's a pretty good deal all right let's do

775
00:52:43,604 --> 00:52:48,564
that yeah okay great and but the example i use all the time is like if you think about like little

776
00:52:48,564 --> 00:52:53,084
italy and you know 1950s and the mob boss comes by and goes hey sal i see you got a nice sandwich

777
00:52:53,084 --> 00:52:57,724
up here so how about you just give us like 10 sandwiches every week and we'll make sure that

778
00:52:57,724 --> 00:53:02,444
nobody breaks up your shop the guy goes hey gfy man i came to america i make this from nothing

779
00:53:02,444 --> 00:53:07,244
is my place you cannot do this to me and i go okay whatever you say sal and then the next day

780
00:53:07,244 --> 00:53:08,784
the guy comes back and smashes up his shop,

781
00:53:08,884 --> 00:53:09,584
bonks him on the head.

782
00:53:09,684 --> 00:53:09,724
And,

783
00:53:09,724 --> 00:53:10,084
you know,

784
00:53:10,724 --> 00:53:13,284
and then the same guy comes back the day after that goes,

785
00:53:13,344 --> 00:53:13,444
Hey,

786
00:53:13,444 --> 00:53:15,004
so it looks like your shop got busted up.

787
00:53:15,144 --> 00:53:16,824
Where are those cops that were going to come save you?

788
00:53:16,884 --> 00:53:17,224
I didn't,

789
00:53:17,684 --> 00:53:19,144
doesn't look like they helped you out very much.

790
00:53:19,144 --> 00:53:19,804
Like I'm telling you,

791
00:53:19,804 --> 00:53:22,724
you could have just given us 10 sandwiches and this would have been great.

792
00:53:23,404 --> 00:53:24,404
And Sal goes,

793
00:53:24,504 --> 00:53:25,584
if he has half a brain and say,

794
00:53:25,624 --> 00:53:25,824
he goes,

795
00:53:25,884 --> 00:53:26,084
okay,

796
00:53:26,084 --> 00:53:26,984
well 10 sandwiches,

797
00:53:27,164 --> 00:53:28,184
I got to make extra,

798
00:53:28,364 --> 00:53:28,564
you know,

799
00:53:28,564 --> 00:53:30,104
I got to charge 10 cents more per sandwich.

800
00:53:30,324 --> 00:53:30,544
Okay.

801
00:53:30,564 --> 00:53:32,124
I can cover the sandwiches to,

802
00:53:32,264 --> 00:53:33,004
to the mobster.

803
00:53:33,644 --> 00:53:34,484
But sooner or later,

804
00:53:34,484 --> 00:53:36,284
the mobster is going to have plenty of sandwiches.

805
00:53:37,244 --> 00:53:40,324
And he doesn't need sandwiches stored up in his fridge forever and ever and ever.

806
00:53:40,324 --> 00:53:56,084
So one of the clever things a mobster can do in the absence of anything else is to go, hey, let's make people pay us the tax in, I don't know, like wampum or cowry shells or obsidian beads or silver coins or whatever.

807
00:53:56,764 --> 00:54:05,864
They have to pay us this tax, but they have to accept the tax that we collect from them when we come in, you know, when we need stuff from them.

808
00:54:05,864 --> 00:54:06,344
Right.

809
00:54:06,344 --> 00:54:16,584
Right. So it gives them the ability to marshal their resources in a way where they can still capture the fruits of their labor without having to store the fruits of their labor on demand.

810
00:54:16,804 --> 00:54:30,064
Right. And so when when we start talking about, like, where does this authority come from and the rules and all that kind of stuff, when you start coming up with rules about, like, how do I get resources out of these people that are under my control now?

811
00:54:30,064 --> 00:54:34,464
how do i get them to work the farms how do i get them to keep giving me stuff how do i you know

812
00:54:34,464 --> 00:54:40,084
one of the great ways to do that is to invent money you know so that that's where i kind of

813
00:54:40,084 --> 00:54:47,004
get to i might be skipping ahead a little bit here but you know slipped in where money comes from

814
00:54:47,004 --> 00:54:51,604
right yeah yeah yeah you know well there's yeah very different than sort of the credit-based

815
00:54:51,604 --> 00:54:58,004
theory or the barter theory right yeah yeah and it kind of speaks it's more pragmatic it speaks to

816
00:54:58,004 --> 00:55:03,624
just like what the need is and what the problem was and why it's a sort of a fiat or a solution

817
00:55:03,624 --> 00:55:10,204
that's kind of just dictated and it's through force. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's a chartalist

818
00:55:10,204 --> 00:55:14,944
view. Like if you look at the chartalists and the funny thing about the chartalists is they

819
00:55:14,944 --> 00:55:19,944
went on to become people like the MMT proponents and they influenced people like Maynard Keynes and

820
00:55:19,944 --> 00:55:25,024
all those sort of like illustrious thinkers of like, well, the state creates money. So the state

821
00:55:25,024 --> 00:55:28,504
can just create as much money as they want, which I think is a corruption or a bastardization

822
00:55:28,504 --> 00:55:29,184
of the idea.

823
00:55:29,384 --> 00:55:33,964
But I do agree, at least on some level, that money is a creation of the state, not the

824
00:55:33,964 --> 00:55:34,524
other way around.

825
00:55:34,664 --> 00:55:38,764
And there will be people, you know, the monetarists or the commodity people or the credit people

826
00:55:38,764 --> 00:55:43,284
come on and go, well, so-and-so did such and such trade in Africa with this and they

827
00:55:43,284 --> 00:55:43,904
didn't have a state.

828
00:55:44,004 --> 00:55:47,864
And they go, yeah, but that's, you know, that doesn't necessarily mean that money came

829
00:55:47,864 --> 00:55:53,384
from the two randos that were working in, you know, Mesopotamia and trying to trade

830
00:55:53,384 --> 00:55:54,764
beads for salt or whatever it was.

831
00:55:55,024 --> 00:56:03,764
So just because someone else has figured out a way to use a medium of exchange doesn't necessarily mean that's where money – the idea of money comes from, right?

832
00:56:03,804 --> 00:56:05,864
So it kind of conflates two ideas.

833
00:56:06,164 --> 00:56:10,724
But I mean that would be a debate for like PBS or something.

834
00:56:10,784 --> 00:56:11,064
I don't know.

835
00:56:11,064 --> 00:56:24,144
But the broad point being is yes, I think that money origin story is problematic and the way you framed it where you say like it kind of makes sense, right?

836
00:56:24,144 --> 00:56:26,784
I go, well, yeah, that's the part that I come to as well.

837
00:56:26,844 --> 00:56:29,284
I look at it and I go, this makes more sense to me.

838
00:56:29,464 --> 00:56:34,384
Like it makes more sense that a state would create money as an effort to manage resources

839
00:56:34,384 --> 00:56:39,384
under their control versus like, hey, these markets just spontaneously cropped up out

840
00:56:39,384 --> 00:56:44,104
of nowhere and we don't know why, despite the fact they never existed before agriculture

841
00:56:44,104 --> 00:56:47,124
and they never existed before we had power hierarchies.

842
00:56:47,264 --> 00:56:51,344
But somehow they just magically showed up and they just created money.

843
00:56:51,344 --> 00:56:56,284
And then these kings came around and decided, hey, these peasants came up with this neat thing.

844
00:56:56,484 --> 00:56:58,844
We're going to use that as a tax and a medium of exchange.

845
00:56:59,364 --> 00:57:04,744
That doesn't make as much sense to me as it does for the sovereign to go, fuck, I don't need any more wheat.

846
00:57:05,424 --> 00:57:06,864
What can I do instead of wheat?

847
00:57:06,964 --> 00:57:07,484
Oh, I know.

848
00:57:08,204 --> 00:57:08,564
Coins.

849
00:57:09,844 --> 00:57:14,784
But I mean I may be in the weeds now, but yeah, that's kind of where I'm at.

850
00:57:15,364 --> 00:57:17,164
Yeah, no, it's very interesting.

851
00:57:17,164 --> 00:57:24,984
And I think the reason one of the reasons it's timely is if you think about sort of money being a creation of the state, we think about Bitcoin is separating money from the state.

852
00:57:25,064 --> 00:57:31,764
But right now, the conversation with Tucker Carlson and the CIA and you could look at sort of, you know, the NSA created shop 256.

853
00:57:32,124 --> 00:57:36,144
Like maybe Bitcoin is a creation of the state in the same way.

854
00:57:36,204 --> 00:57:38,904
Maybe the state had a problem and they came up with a solution.

855
00:57:39,324 --> 00:57:43,744
And that's a different debate in terms of that doesn't really affect what Bitcoin can be for people.

856
00:57:43,744 --> 00:57:49,784
But what did sort of Native Americans, what did they think of land ownership or sort of authority?

857
00:57:49,924 --> 00:57:51,404
What was that notion like to them?

858
00:57:51,524 --> 00:57:52,564
Well, it was abhorrent to them.

859
00:57:52,684 --> 00:57:56,384
I mean, it was like – and it's well documented.

860
00:57:56,604 --> 00:58:05,824
Like there were all kinds of documentarians at the time that would very clearly point out to the people asking like, hey, what about land ownership?

861
00:58:06,164 --> 00:58:07,324
It was a foreign concept.

862
00:58:07,324 --> 00:58:12,384
like it would be just as foreign as if I walked into your room and said, Hey, uh, Cedric, I,

863
00:58:12,604 --> 00:58:15,924
I bought all the air in this room. You can't use it anymore. You just feel like, what are you

864
00:58:15,924 --> 00:58:19,664
talking about? You can't do that, dude. Like it doesn't work. Like this is clearly a shared

865
00:58:19,664 --> 00:58:23,964
resource. You can't just own the air. Uh, and they felt the same way about the land. You go,

866
00:58:24,024 --> 00:58:27,864
what do you mean? You can't, you own the land. Like, are you using this land? No. Well then how

867
00:58:27,864 --> 00:58:32,164
do you own it? Like, what are you talking about? Well, I put a fence around it and I'll bash the

868
00:58:32,164 --> 00:58:37,224
hell out of you trying to walk across it. So this mine, they, they just thought that was an insane

869
00:58:37,224 --> 00:58:39,464
They thought of it as a literal insanity.

870
00:58:39,704 --> 00:58:41,364
They go, that just doesn't make any sense to me.

871
00:58:41,604 --> 00:58:45,904
So just the concept of land ownership, I mean, depending on which tribe you're talking about,

872
00:58:45,944 --> 00:58:47,904
and there's all sorts of nuance to that discussion as well.

873
00:58:48,064 --> 00:58:52,764
But if bared to its sort of essentials, you go, well, are you using that thing right now?

874
00:58:53,144 --> 00:58:55,244
No, then it's not really yours anymore.

875
00:58:55,484 --> 00:58:58,404
If you're using it, then obviously I can't come and take it out of your hand.

876
00:58:58,784 --> 00:59:01,024
I can't just go, hey, you planted a garden here.

877
00:59:01,044 --> 00:59:03,324
I'm just going to kick over it and put some daisies in instead.

878
00:59:03,624 --> 00:59:05,244
Everyone knows, hey, that's not fair.

879
00:59:05,244 --> 00:59:13,144
Like I spent a lot of time building that garden. Right. So there was a respect for the person, right, that was doing or using a thing.

880
00:59:13,144 --> 00:59:17,344
But there's not necessarily this idea of like, well, Tom used to put a garden there.

881
00:59:17,464 --> 00:59:22,864
But, you know, Tom's been gone for 10 years. He came back and then kicked my daisies out because he said, hey, that's my garden.

882
00:59:22,924 --> 00:59:26,764
I grew a garden there 10 years ago. It's mine. What are you talking about, Tom? You've lost your mind.

883
00:59:27,184 --> 00:59:33,044
That's not how the game gets played, dude. But the European Christians and the resource capture game changed that.

884
00:59:33,044 --> 00:59:51,104
They said, no, this is mine. You can't be here. This is ours. And oddly, one of the first cases tried before the Supreme Court, the natives made that argument. They said, hey, you Europeans are all about title and all about ownership and who's been on the land, who occupies land. We had title to this land and you just took it. And that's not fair. You should pay us for that.

885
00:59:51,104 --> 00:59:55,264
and the Supreme Court, I think it's probably their fourth or fifth decision. They came along

886
00:59:55,264 --> 00:59:58,584
and said, well, you know what? You're right. You made a really good point here. You guys had title

887
00:59:58,584 --> 01:00:03,284
of the land. Unfortunately you lost. So we're not going to honor any of that.

888
01:00:03,664 --> 01:00:07,384
And that was it. Like, I mean, if you, and so you talk about a country that's founded on these

889
01:00:07,384 --> 01:00:11,984
principles of individual liberty and respect for property rights and, you know, individual rights

890
01:00:11,984 --> 01:00:15,964
and freedoms and yada, yada, yada. But the very first decision from the highest court in the land

891
01:00:15,964 --> 01:00:20,944
was like, well, we won, you lost, go suck an egg. You know, like that, that was the end result of

892
01:00:20,944 --> 01:00:22,744
that because there was no other way for them to do it.

893
01:00:22,804 --> 01:00:24,324
They go, well, if we rule in favor of the Indians,

894
01:00:24,384 --> 01:00:26,164
we've got to give all the shit back, and that's not going to work.

895
01:00:26,564 --> 01:00:29,004
And we're certainly not going to do that because now we've got all these

896
01:00:29,004 --> 01:00:31,144
settlements, and what are we going to pay the Indians a tax?

897
01:00:31,444 --> 01:00:33,544
Not to mention they thought of them as subhuman anyway.

898
01:00:33,744 --> 01:00:36,784
So you put all that together, and you go, it's kind of a no-brainer.

899
01:00:36,884 --> 01:00:38,864
They're just going to go, well, we're in power now.

900
01:00:38,904 --> 01:00:39,764
I'm the captain now.

901
01:00:40,144 --> 01:00:40,964
You sit down.

902
01:00:41,444 --> 01:00:42,724
Sorry, you lost your land.

903
01:00:43,024 --> 01:00:44,464
You should have had better guns.

904
01:00:44,464 --> 01:00:46,684
You guys should have been in tournament competition all along

905
01:00:46,684 --> 01:00:49,804
because then maybe you would have had a fighting chance, but you didn't.

906
01:00:49,924 --> 01:00:50,644
So here we are.

907
01:00:50,944 --> 01:00:58,844
So that's kind of where that traces around in terms of what that looks like and why, if that answers the question.

908
01:00:59,584 --> 01:01:00,884
Yeah, no, it's interesting.

909
01:01:00,884 --> 01:01:02,824
You think about sort of like authority.

910
01:01:03,384 --> 01:01:16,704
In my younger, more childish days, and I can't believe I'm sharing this, but we're walking out of a bar in New York City in Manhattan at like 4.30 in the morning, last call, with a full pitcher of beer, four or five empty pint glasses, and we get in a cab.

911
01:01:16,704 --> 01:01:20,224
and the cab driver says, you know, I'll take you where you guys are going,

912
01:01:20,304 --> 01:01:22,624
but you can't bring that full pitcher of beer in here.

913
01:01:22,804 --> 01:01:24,064
You know, you can't drink beer in here.

914
01:01:24,584 --> 01:01:27,884
And my friend says, well, are you going to kick us out?

915
01:01:28,684 --> 01:01:30,144
And he said, no.

916
01:01:30,944 --> 01:01:32,344
So he said, I guess we can.

917
01:01:33,104 --> 01:01:36,844
You know, and it's just sort of, well, if you're not going to punish us,

918
01:01:36,844 --> 01:01:39,064
and you get into this weird thing of, like, what is authority?

919
01:01:39,384 --> 01:01:40,184
Who has it?

920
01:01:40,364 --> 01:01:43,244
And if I just say no, and you could just do things, you know.

921
01:01:43,244 --> 01:01:49,364
but what about uh and also with the in and out group thing it was really interesting because you

922
01:01:49,364 --> 01:01:54,284
have this such odd behavior within and out groups where you're in the in group and you're supposed

923
01:01:54,284 --> 01:01:59,904
to almost like advance your group and attack the other group but if you do anything sort of outside

924
01:01:59,904 --> 01:02:05,084
the line or do too good of a job like you have to almost be punished by your group in front of the

925
01:02:05,084 --> 01:02:11,144
other group to their uh liking satisfaction yeah yeah to this action it's this weird yin and yang

926
01:02:11,144 --> 01:02:14,904
where you're against them, but like in a weird way, you have to cooperate with them to move

927
01:02:14,904 --> 01:02:15,404
forward.

928
01:02:16,284 --> 01:02:17,544
And their opinion matters.

929
01:02:18,144 --> 01:02:18,644
Yeah, absolutely.

930
01:02:19,304 --> 01:02:27,024
And that's the problem with coalitions, right, is like they put this idea to an extreme test

931
01:02:27,024 --> 01:02:27,744
in World War Two.

932
01:02:27,864 --> 01:02:29,644
They said, how far can we push the coalitions?

933
01:02:29,712 --> 01:02:34,252
thing, like where we're not going to police our in-group, we're just going to let another

934
01:02:34,252 --> 01:02:35,992
out-group do whatever they, you know.

935
01:02:37,212 --> 01:02:42,772
And without that self-policing mechanism, those, you, everybody in the world knows what

936
01:02:42,772 --> 01:02:44,712
the outcome of World War II was, right?

937
01:02:44,852 --> 01:02:47,612
Like it was just, Europe was leveled, right?

938
01:02:47,672 --> 01:02:49,272
I mean, it was just absolutely devastating.

939
01:02:49,572 --> 01:02:55,512
We, you know, like factories, thousands of years of history just flattened because of

940
01:02:55,512 --> 01:02:59,052
this tournament competition for who's going to control the resources of Europe.

941
01:02:59,712 --> 01:03:03,852
And that's the problem with not self-policing, right?

942
01:03:03,912 --> 01:03:15,832
So when you talk about international law and all these kind of things and these international norms and international rules, it's because the coalitions realize and recognize to go, hey, if we just keep duking it out all the time, we all die.

943
01:03:16,292 --> 01:03:17,292
Like nobody wins.

944
01:03:17,292 --> 01:03:21,352
Like someone might come out on top, but all of us are decimated and that's no good.

945
01:03:21,452 --> 01:03:24,352
We want to further our gains.

946
01:03:24,352 --> 01:03:31,572
We want to maintain our gains, but we also want to make sure that we're not just willy-nilly duking it out because it's very, very, very expensive.

947
01:03:31,992 --> 01:03:36,112
So it becomes a financial – like at its core, it's a financial decision.

948
01:03:36,292 --> 01:03:41,832
I mean if you take human capitals as a financial decision, it becomes very clear.

949
01:03:41,972 --> 01:03:44,372
You go, well, we shouldn't get in a war.

950
01:03:44,672 --> 01:03:45,652
We shouldn't get in a gang war.

951
01:03:45,832 --> 01:03:48,712
And even those gangs like imprison gangs and all that kind of stuff, those things degrade.

952
01:03:48,712 --> 01:03:52,652
these aren't exactly the brightest candles in the box sort of thing or whatever,

953
01:03:52,812 --> 01:03:55,672
brightest candles in the room or however you say it. I don't know. But for the most part,

954
01:03:55,732 --> 01:04:00,512
they try and avoid that kind of thing because of the cost. Right. And I think I use in a book,

955
01:04:00,612 --> 01:04:04,792
in the book, there's a, there's an example, Eve online, there's a video game, right?

956
01:04:05,572 --> 01:04:11,632
And Eve online had this area in the video game. This is literal, like people clicking buttons on

957
01:04:11,632 --> 01:04:17,632
a computer, nothing at stake here at all. Like nothing. It's just code. But there was a section

958
01:04:17,632 --> 01:04:22,112
of this space area that had no rules. It was called NullSec. There was no security intervention.

959
01:04:22,332 --> 01:04:25,812
If you'd wandered out there and someone came and took all your stuff, you lose. Sorry.

960
01:04:26,772 --> 01:04:31,972
And guess what happened? The exact same identical process that's been repeated over and over and

961
01:04:31,972 --> 01:04:36,512
over for the last 12,000 years. One guy came along and said, hey, that guy's got a pretty

962
01:04:36,512 --> 01:04:40,872
juicy little spaceship. I'm going to go take spaceship stuff off of him. And then someone said,

963
01:04:40,932 --> 01:04:45,772
hey, man, every time someone tries to cross here, why don't we gang up and make sure?

964
01:04:45,772 --> 01:04:47,732
and while we're ganged up, you know what?

965
01:04:47,752 --> 01:04:49,092
We can probably take some more stuff over.

966
01:04:49,252 --> 01:04:50,012
So we'll get richer.

967
01:04:50,212 --> 01:04:51,572
And then another gang forms.

968
01:04:51,692 --> 01:04:53,532
Next thing you know, that entire null sec

969
01:04:53,532 --> 01:04:57,012
was divided up into sectors that had policing authority

970
01:04:57,012 --> 01:04:58,272
and they had people going around saying,

971
01:04:58,412 --> 01:04:59,812
hey, you can't do this, you can't do that.

972
01:04:59,892 --> 01:05:00,612
Don't do this here.

973
01:05:00,712 --> 01:05:01,692
We're going to blow you up.

974
01:05:01,852 --> 01:05:03,612
And suddenly you had rules of trade

975
01:05:03,612 --> 01:05:05,412
and all this sort of like market economy

976
01:05:05,412 --> 01:05:06,792
and all this kind of crazy shit going on.

977
01:05:07,052 --> 01:05:08,672
And they still got in these big battles.

978
01:05:08,672 --> 01:05:10,292
But those big coalitional battles

979
01:05:10,292 --> 01:05:12,352
ended up costing like real world,

980
01:05:12,512 --> 01:05:14,932
something like $200,000 for the participants

981
01:05:14,932 --> 01:05:19,272
in this real world battle or this fictional fake video game battle.

982
01:05:19,392 --> 01:05:23,012
But people in the meat space, like me and you, were sitting in front of their computers

983
01:05:23,012 --> 01:05:25,772
pumping all kinds of money into this thing to make this happen.

984
01:05:25,932 --> 01:05:28,052
And the losses were extraordinary, right?

985
01:05:28,672 --> 01:05:32,352
So I don't know how popular that game is to this day.

986
01:05:32,452 --> 01:05:36,872
I never played it, but it was such a fascinating journey because if you look at a tournament

987
01:05:36,872 --> 01:05:41,972
style competition in the absence of rulers, in the absence of a rule book, what you get

988
01:05:41,972 --> 01:05:48,352
is exactly the same as every single power struggle in the history of mankind going back 12,000 years.

989
01:05:49,052 --> 01:05:50,132
You go, well, isn't that interesting?

990
01:05:50,412 --> 01:05:52,892
I mean, it's a self-perpetuating cycle.

991
01:05:53,012 --> 01:05:53,712
It has to be.

992
01:05:54,172 --> 01:05:56,072
And, you know, I give myriad examples.

993
01:05:56,232 --> 01:06:00,212
I go, hey, if you get two groups of guys at a picnic and go, hey, let's go kick this ball around.

994
01:06:00,572 --> 01:06:02,172
And then one of them comes up with a game.

995
01:06:02,272 --> 01:06:03,072
They go, hey, I got it.

996
01:06:03,672 --> 01:06:07,452
Whoever can kick the ball through this part of the tree, you know, wins a point.

997
01:06:07,572 --> 01:06:07,872
Okay.

998
01:06:07,872 --> 01:06:12,492
if they take if they start getting serious about it and especially if they're super competitive

999
01:06:12,492 --> 01:06:16,652
these guys will be duking it out within you know an hour or two hey tom that would be yeah you

1000
01:06:16,652 --> 01:06:21,412
shouldn't you know they're gonna fight right so if they want to keep playing the game they go okay

1001
01:06:21,412 --> 01:06:26,832
we gotta we gotta come up some rules like you can't stab tom in the ass with a you know a picnic

1002
01:06:26,832 --> 01:06:31,612
knife if he takes the ball for me that's no good dude we can't be okay okay no stabbing tom in the

1003
01:06:31,612 --> 01:06:36,192
i got it i got it okay what do i poke him in the eyes no no no you can't poke tom in the eyes either

1004
01:06:36,192 --> 01:06:42,812
But those rules become more and more intricate and more and more defined because there's more and more ways to try and cheat the rules, right?

1005
01:06:43,452 --> 01:06:46,112
So that's the nature of those resource capture games.

1006
01:06:46,312 --> 01:06:50,732
But if there's a big prize on the other side of that tree, there's going to be people going, I don't give a shit about the rules.

1007
01:06:50,832 --> 01:06:51,572
I'm taking the prize.

1008
01:06:51,972 --> 01:06:53,512
And if you can't stop me, I'm getting the prize.

1009
01:06:53,672 --> 01:06:55,812
And that's where these games come from.

1010
01:06:55,892 --> 01:06:58,172
But that's why we end up with the system we have.

1011
01:06:58,672 --> 01:07:01,332
The real world losses, I think, were $350,000.

1012
01:07:02,192 --> 01:07:03,772
Yeah, it's crazy.

1013
01:07:03,772 --> 01:07:05,272
I want to read a little bit from the book.

1014
01:07:05,272 --> 01:07:11,232
at any rate after the king's landlord collected those taxes from the peasants the landlord would

1015
01:07:11,232 --> 01:07:15,832
keep a share for himself the rest would go to the king in order to settle the landlord's tax

1016
01:07:15,832 --> 01:07:20,832
to the sovereign in this way community produced resources were redistributed up from the working

1017
01:07:20,832 --> 01:07:26,072
peasant class and a managerial landlord class and then on to the sovereign if you did not notice

1018
01:07:26,072 --> 01:07:32,372
this is much the same redistribution process in use today with the exception today of course that

1019
01:07:32,372 --> 01:07:36,352
is much more layered and theoretically voluntary.

1020
01:07:36,712 --> 01:07:38,512
It is important to the discussion at hand

1021
01:07:38,512 --> 01:07:40,132
to keep in mind that there's still a gun

1022
01:07:40,132 --> 01:07:41,532
at the end of that chain.

1023
01:07:41,992 --> 01:07:45,132
Nonetheless, the larger trouble with taking stuff

1024
01:07:45,132 --> 01:07:47,772
is that there's only so much wheat or meat or shoes

1025
01:07:47,772 --> 01:07:49,652
or what have you that you can store

1026
01:07:49,652 --> 01:07:52,372
before it rots, loses value, or gets too cumbersome.

1027
01:07:52,772 --> 01:07:55,832
Meaning direct taxation by theft or extortion of goods

1028
01:07:55,832 --> 01:07:58,712
can quickly become a basic logistics and storage problem.

1029
01:07:59,132 --> 01:08:01,232
Not to mention the direct taking of goods

1030
01:08:01,232 --> 01:08:05,332
leaves a lot of value exchange between your peasants that you cannot profit from through

1031
01:08:05,332 --> 01:08:09,912
the theft of stuff. Think of it from a king's perspective. If building a fence is a valuable

1032
01:08:09,912 --> 01:08:14,852
service, why should the king not get a cut of that too? The peasants, after all, are his property by

1033
01:08:14,852 --> 01:08:19,432
Devon Wright. Their labor is merely a rental, much like a plow horse tilling another man's field.

1034
01:08:19,932 --> 01:08:24,792
Certainly the king deserves a fee for divinely providing that rental service, right? Nevertheless,

1035
01:08:25,412 --> 01:08:30,492
the clever way the inventors of modern monetary systems got around these problems was to demand

1036
01:08:30,492 --> 01:08:32,952
and taxes be paid in species instead of stuff.

1037
01:08:33,072 --> 01:08:37,432
Such an arrangement makes a lot of sense if you are a king and your kingdom has grown quite large.

1038
01:08:37,592 --> 01:08:42,652
Forcing your population to pay taxes in species instead of stuff forces them to trade in species.

1039
01:08:43,172 --> 01:08:47,732
Put another way, they are now forced to make and do things in order to get species to pay their tax to you.

1040
01:08:47,952 --> 01:08:50,432
This arrangement does three really great things for you.

1041
01:08:50,432 --> 01:08:52,872
Our most honorable, wise, and divine king.

1042
01:08:53,272 --> 01:08:56,672
You do not have to store a bunch of stuff you do not need right away.

1043
01:08:57,092 --> 01:08:59,452
You force your population to be measurably productive.

1044
01:08:59,452 --> 01:09:04,812
no more hiding potatoes you can give your peasants the species you took from them in tax receipts to

1045
01:09:04,812 --> 01:09:09,132
pay them for the work you are indirectly forcing them to do or to pay for the products you are

1046
01:09:09,132 --> 01:09:14,412
indirectly forcing them to make which in turn incentivizes them to be even more productive

1047
01:09:14,412 --> 01:09:19,792
well this really made me think about though just in terms of how it's very similar to the feudal

1048
01:09:19,792 --> 01:09:27,272
system is that no one can even afford not to work and that's a weird concept today but like

1049
01:09:27,272 --> 01:09:32,892
you're almost, you're forced to work because you're going to have to pay these taxes in that

1050
01:09:32,892 --> 01:09:38,232
money, in those political currency units. And so now you have to be productive to afford your taxes.

1051
01:09:39,252 --> 01:09:44,152
But like you used to have people, you know, even a hundred years ago in America would acquire a

1052
01:09:44,152 --> 01:09:48,852
piece of land out West and not necessarily work. They would just exist. And if you just think

1053
01:09:48,852 --> 01:09:55,772
about like the psychological, the metaphysical, like notion of cost of living, you know, like I

1054
01:09:55,772 --> 01:09:58,112
I was going home the other day on Drive Radio.

1055
01:09:58,392 --> 01:10:01,532
The DJ was talking about how there was a new study.

1056
01:10:02,212 --> 01:10:13,172
And if moms got compensated by their husbands or their fathers for their work, they would be making or worth $165,000 a year.

1057
01:10:13,712 --> 01:10:15,092
It's a weird study.

1058
01:10:15,092 --> 01:10:25,332
And I think it's propaganda in the sense that it's embedding the notion that animals don't think about, oh, let's not have another kid.

1059
01:10:25,332 --> 01:10:29,032
It's going to be more cost of living to have this child.

1060
01:10:29,332 --> 01:10:31,132
It's another deer, a doe.

1061
01:10:31,372 --> 01:10:35,612
You know, it's just you just procreate and you live and you just be.

1062
01:10:36,132 --> 01:10:38,972
And taxes in a way like doesn't allow us to just be.

1063
01:10:39,632 --> 01:10:40,072
Right.

1064
01:10:40,512 --> 01:10:40,732
Yeah.

1065
01:10:40,732 --> 01:10:41,752
It's kind of interesting.

1066
01:10:42,392 --> 01:10:42,812
I agree.

1067
01:10:42,932 --> 01:10:43,992
I think it's super interesting.

1068
01:10:44,172 --> 01:10:47,452
Like the British actually imposed a hut tax in Africa.

1069
01:10:47,752 --> 01:10:48,572
They went down.

1070
01:10:48,652 --> 01:10:49,452
I can't remember the country.

1071
01:10:49,652 --> 01:10:53,712
They were trying to modernize or conquer or colonize or whatever it was.

1072
01:10:53,712 --> 01:10:56,712
but they came along and said, Hey, we got all this labor just standing around.

1073
01:10:56,792 --> 01:11:01,292
We need to build a train, like a rail line and a road and some dams and stuff like that.

1074
01:11:01,472 --> 01:11:03,032
But we can't get these people to work.

1075
01:11:03,332 --> 01:11:04,612
I'll just charge them a hut tax.

1076
01:11:05,172 --> 01:11:07,712
What? Yeah. If you own a hut, you have to pay tax.

1077
01:11:07,972 --> 01:11:09,352
Well, how do I get the money to pay the tax?

1078
01:11:09,612 --> 01:11:11,872
Well, you got to come work for us and we'll pay you some money.

1079
01:11:11,992 --> 01:11:13,172
Then you can pay your hut tax.

1080
01:11:13,412 --> 01:11:14,592
So you go, what did they do there?

1081
01:11:14,652 --> 01:11:17,472
They go, well, we've got a valuable resource that we're not exploiting.

1082
01:11:18,032 --> 01:11:21,992
We have all this idle labor and these people don't give a shit because they're just like,

1083
01:11:21,992 --> 01:11:25,692
I'm just going to go like, you know, kill a badger and, you know, skin it.

1084
01:11:25,752 --> 01:11:28,212
And then I'll make myself some shoes and I'll have some badger meat that week.

1085
01:11:28,452 --> 01:11:32,532
Then I'm going to go find a honey hive and I'm going to go eat some honey and pick some fruit.

1086
01:11:32,772 --> 01:11:38,652
And otherwise I'm just going to chill and do what I've been doing for the last, you know, generations after generation after generation.

1087
01:11:38,772 --> 01:11:39,812
I don't care what flag you're carrying.

1088
01:11:40,372 --> 01:11:41,292
They go, yeah, but you got to work.

1089
01:11:41,412 --> 01:11:42,012
You go, why?

1090
01:11:42,612 --> 01:11:43,432
Like, what are you talking about?

1091
01:11:43,652 --> 01:11:44,732
Well, there's a hut tax now.

1092
01:11:45,332 --> 01:11:46,352
What do you mean a hut tax?

1093
01:11:46,432 --> 01:11:48,512
Well, if you don't pay your hut tax, we're going to come through you in jail.

1094
01:11:48,632 --> 01:11:49,192
You go, wait, what?

1095
01:11:49,192 --> 01:11:53,252
you're not going to pay to live in the thing that I've been living in for the last 40 years that I

1096
01:11:53,252 --> 01:11:58,672
built by my, by my own hand. Yeah. Yeah. You owe us money for that now. So, but that that's,

1097
01:11:58,732 --> 01:12:03,392
you know, it's kind of a very stark illustration of what we're talking about, but I remember very

1098
01:12:03,392 --> 01:12:07,972
clearly, like the first time I got a job, I said, well, what happened to my paycheck? Right. I

1099
01:12:07,972 --> 01:12:12,052
thought I was supposed to get, you know, $240 this week. I've only got 200 go. Yeah. Well,

1100
01:12:12,052 --> 01:12:17,392
there's tax and go, what's that for? Well, that's just what you pay to exist. It's like, wait a

1101
01:12:17,392 --> 01:12:19,872
That hardly seems fair.

1102
01:12:20,072 --> 01:12:21,952
Like I just existed anyway, didn't I?

1103
01:12:22,552 --> 01:12:37,272
And the sort of clever thing that these rulers do, by the time you – if you take all the valuable resources and hoard them and then say these are all mine now and you only get access to resources by my permission, therefore I can tax you to have access to my resources.

1104
01:12:38,572 --> 01:12:43,952
What you've basically done is cut humanity off from humanity's purpose in the world.

1105
01:12:43,952 --> 01:12:49,292
just like you said with the doe and the deer like you go well i have a financial decision to make

1106
01:12:49,292 --> 01:12:54,152
now you know like we need to have a lot of babies because that's how we can do more labor right but

1107
01:12:54,152 --> 01:12:59,132
once your baby starts surviving you go well god we it would be great to have another kid bouncing

1108
01:12:59,132 --> 01:13:04,552
around and we could you know clean up puke and but i don't know we're trying to save for susie's

1109
01:13:04,552 --> 01:13:09,032
college so let's think about it oh it's an accident you know but but these are all very

1110
01:13:09,032 --> 01:13:15,492
very strange decisions in the history of humankind the thing you'll notice is like the hunter gatherer

1111
01:13:15,492 --> 01:13:21,532
tribes don't ever like go like hey let's just have like 50 kids that only shows up after agriculture

1112
01:13:21,532 --> 01:13:26,272
where you go like hey man we need extra labor here well how do we get extra labor well let me just keep

1113
01:13:26,272 --> 01:13:30,052
making babies and sooner or later we can put them to work and that's going to help us half of them

1114
01:13:30,052 --> 01:13:35,112
are going to die so their financial calculation is very different but it's still a financial

1115
01:13:35,112 --> 01:13:40,052
calculation at least i mean they might not think so right out of the gate but you certainly don't

1116
01:13:40,052 --> 01:13:44,552
see like one guy cruising around the the hosda tribe going like yeah i knocked her up i knocked

1117
01:13:44,552 --> 01:13:47,992
her up i got 10 out of that one you know i mean they just don't do it because it doesn't make any

1118
01:13:47,992 --> 01:13:53,132
sense to the tribe right they just go oh that's like a lot of miles to feed and knock that off

1119
01:13:53,132 --> 01:13:58,752
quit doing that but the gal herself will just pick no get off me go away like we're not doing

1120
01:13:58,752 --> 01:14:03,192
this tonight i don't know what you're you're drunk get out of here whatever right so so these

1121
01:14:03,192 --> 01:14:09,712
calculus is all changed just from the exclusion of resources, right? It changes everything about

1122
01:14:09,712 --> 01:14:14,132
the world and how people interact with the world. The thing I used to say to people is like,

1123
01:14:14,232 --> 01:14:19,012
the earth provides everything you need to survive as a human being. The fact that people prevent you

1124
01:14:19,012 --> 01:14:22,772
from doing that is, it should be the thing that angers you more than the fact you're being taxed

1125
01:14:22,772 --> 01:14:27,292
or that, you know, you don't get paid as much or you're being diluted because of this, that,

1126
01:14:27,312 --> 01:14:31,672
and the other thing. It's like, you can just go grow a garden and you can, you know, hunt things

1127
01:14:31,672 --> 01:14:32,552
and you can live.

1128
01:14:33,212 --> 01:14:34,392
It's not quite as convenient.

1129
01:14:34,592 --> 01:14:35,452
It's not quite as comfortable.

1130
01:14:35,732 --> 01:14:38,772
But, you know, you've been separated from your humanity.

1131
01:14:38,952 --> 01:14:40,432
You've been separated from the earth, you know.

1132
01:14:40,532 --> 01:14:43,652
And that's one of the reasons why I think Bitcoin is such a big deal.

1133
01:14:43,792 --> 01:14:46,692
Because if you're talking about a game that has no rules

1134
01:14:46,692 --> 01:14:48,852
and is ruled by people in power

1135
01:14:48,852 --> 01:14:51,472
and their ability to exclude people from resources,

1136
01:14:52,472 --> 01:14:56,192
but suddenly you have a resource that gets introduced to this game

1137
01:14:56,192 --> 01:14:57,912
that's been being played for 12,000 years.

1138
01:14:57,972 --> 01:14:59,772
And you go, hey, no one can take this resource from you.

1139
01:15:00,452 --> 01:15:01,912
Oh, that's an interesting wrinkle.

1140
01:15:02,832 --> 01:15:04,132
Well, what do we do about that?

1141
01:15:04,252 --> 01:15:05,732
Well, it forces you to trade.

1142
01:15:05,892 --> 01:15:07,392
You have to trade for this resource.

1143
01:15:07,472 --> 01:15:08,572
You can't just come and seize it.

1144
01:15:08,652 --> 01:15:13,272
I can't just look at you and go, hey, Cedric's got, you know, one Bitcoin, 50 Bitcoin, a

1145
01:15:13,272 --> 01:15:13,772
thousand Bitcoin.

1146
01:15:13,952 --> 01:15:15,512
I'm just going to bonk him on the head and take his Bitcoin.

1147
01:15:15,732 --> 01:15:17,172
I can try and coerce you to do it.

1148
01:15:17,412 --> 01:15:20,852
But if you set things up in a way you go like it doesn't, you can beat me and tell him purple,

1149
01:15:20,852 --> 01:15:24,292
dude, I can't get to that without X, Y, Z things happening first.

1150
01:15:24,512 --> 01:15:25,912
And that's never going to happen.

1151
01:15:25,912 --> 01:15:31,572
so we can negotiate or you can just kill me, but I, I can't give you the big, I can't get it. Sorry.

1152
01:15:32,192 --> 01:15:36,052
I'm excluded from my own resource, but I have sovereign control over it. Right. That's a very,

1153
01:15:36,112 --> 01:15:41,972
very different rule in the game because there's, there's a game without rules. If I had an army

1154
01:15:41,972 --> 01:15:46,612
behind me and a wall of nukes, and I just happened to be in Albuquerque, New Mexico,

1155
01:15:46,612 --> 01:15:49,132
and just sitting here doing my thing. And I go, you know what? I'm going to take over the United

1156
01:15:49,132 --> 01:15:55,012
States of America. Who's going to stop me? The cops. I go, Hey man, like I got a nuke and I got

1157
01:15:55,012 --> 01:15:59,292
a 5,000 strong army. Like how many cops you got on the beat right now? 40. All right, let's go,

1158
01:15:59,372 --> 01:16:04,932
dude. You know, like, okay, now I guess I'm the ruler of Albuquerque. Yeah. Okay, cool. I am the

1159
01:16:04,932 --> 01:16:09,872
mayor of Albuquerque. Well, I'm going to branch out. Now I've conscripted a bunch of people from

1160
01:16:09,872 --> 01:16:13,592
the city of Albuquerque. I've armed them to the teeth and I got nukes behind me. So if you try

1161
01:16:13,592 --> 01:16:19,292
and invade Albuquerque, I'm going to blow up Washington, DC. Let's go. Like, could I take over

1162
01:16:19,292 --> 01:16:24,832
over texas yeah could i how much how much property in the united states could i take over

1163
01:16:24,832 --> 01:16:30,772
if i had 10 000 strong army and a bunch of nukes at my disposal you know that's a problem right

1164
01:16:30,772 --> 01:16:36,032
because who's going to stop you those guys in malheer county in oregon took over a reserve

1165
01:16:36,032 --> 01:16:40,472
prior to the malheer county thing they they got in a big fight outside of elco nevada i think it

1166
01:16:40,472 --> 01:16:45,172
was with the cops they said hey we're grazing our cattle we've been grazing our cattle you're not

1167
01:16:45,172 --> 01:16:49,352
change the rules. Cops said, you can't do that. We're here to stop you. And then a bunch of guys

1168
01:16:49,352 --> 01:16:52,712
in trucks showed up with rifles and said, go ahead and try. And the cops went, oh,

1169
01:16:53,072 --> 01:17:01,732
well, that's a problem. Uh, okay. We're going to leave. Like that was it. Like the cops,

1170
01:17:01,812 --> 01:17:05,272
the ultimate authority, they have all the state power behind them. Just went, nope,

1171
01:17:05,632 --> 01:17:11,812
not doing that. Cause we're way outgunned. We're going to lose bad. So let's not lose bad. Let's

1172
01:17:11,812 --> 01:17:15,672
regroup and figure out a different way to, you know, so they went to the negotiating table.

1173
01:17:16,572 --> 01:17:20,592
Bitcoin circumvents all of that stuff. You just go, well, it's mine. Okay, well, we're here to

1174
01:17:20,592 --> 01:17:28,712
take it. Good luck. Okay. Wow. Well, you got a lot of it. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I'm super powerful.

1175
01:17:29,392 --> 01:17:37,952
So it changes the game. It gives people access to a thing that no pleb, no peasant, no what I call

1176
01:17:37,952 --> 01:17:42,032
like the human farm animal has ever had access to for the last 12,000 years. I have something you

1177
01:17:42,032 --> 01:17:46,832
can't take. King, president, govern, government, whatever. It doesn't matter how many guns you

1178
01:17:46,832 --> 01:17:50,392
have. It doesn't matter how many nukes. You just can't take it. You can kill me, but you can't take

1179
01:17:50,392 --> 01:17:54,612
this thing. And it's valuable now. The second it became valuable and widely accepted, you go,

1180
01:17:54,732 --> 01:17:59,472
oh, all right. That fundamentally changed the game forever. And that's why I'm such a huge

1181
01:17:59,472 --> 01:18:14,654
proponent of Bitcoin is because it comes from that understanding of money the origins of money the origins of power the origins of state power and all those sorts of things which circles me all the way to like oh there this really neat thing that changes this resource capture game rule forever you know and it fundamentally

1182
01:18:14,654 --> 01:18:20,034
realigns those sort of resource capture game rules. Well, I do want to backtrack a little bit

1183
01:18:20,034 --> 01:18:25,494
because you brought up there, but like, what do you think about stock to flow as far as the

1184
01:18:25,494 --> 01:18:31,694
valuation of money or the... When it comes to Bitcoin, the rules are simple. Run your own node.

1185
01:18:32,134 --> 01:18:35,034
hold your own keys, and protect your seed phrase.

1186
01:18:35,554 --> 01:18:37,454
That's where MicroSeed comes in.

1187
01:18:38,114 --> 01:18:42,714
Unlike bulky backups, MicroSeed is stamped onto a tiny steel washer.

1188
01:18:43,394 --> 01:18:48,974
Fireproof, waterproof, and so small you can carry it anywhere or hide it in plain sight.

1189
01:18:49,334 --> 01:18:54,654
Go to MicroSeed.io and use the code MATRIX for a discount on your order.

1190
01:18:54,654 --> 01:19:02,434
uh yeah i you know it's got its its merits in terms of like it sort of makes intuitive sense

1191
01:19:02,434 --> 01:19:07,714
if you don't think about it too hard um but the examples they always use like i think lynn alden

1192
01:19:07,714 --> 01:19:12,794
uses wampum and they talk about most people that promote this theory talk about things like um

1193
01:19:12,794 --> 01:19:21,314
you know whether it's cowrie shells or obsidian beads or you know whatever it is the the notion

1194
01:19:21,314 --> 01:19:26,914
says like, well, hey, the stock to flow characteristics of gold are lower than cowry

1195
01:19:26,914 --> 01:19:33,794
shells or wampum or, you know, obsidian beads or rye stones of yap or whatever. That's why they

1196
01:19:33,794 --> 01:19:38,054
succeeded as money. And I go, well, but that that's assuming that all those other things were

1197
01:19:38,054 --> 01:19:43,354
money to begin with. And they weren't. Not one of those examples is something where you go,

1198
01:19:43,494 --> 01:19:47,934
this is money. And the example I've been using recently, I don't know if you're familiar with

1199
01:19:47,934 --> 01:19:51,554
a challenge coin. Do you know what a challenge coin is? Like military law enforcement people,

1200
01:19:52,154 --> 01:19:54,914
military and law enforcement people carry these little things called challenge coins,

1201
01:19:54,914 --> 01:19:58,634
and they usually get issued from their unit because of something they did or something they

1202
01:19:58,634 --> 01:20:03,734
participated in. It's called a challenge coin because you have to produce it upon a challenge.

1203
01:20:03,814 --> 01:20:07,614
You go, hey, you got your challenge coin on you. If you don't have it, you got to buy a round of

1204
01:20:07,614 --> 01:20:11,774
drinks or something like that. Right. So it's got all these like social characteristics embedded in

1205
01:20:11,774 --> 01:20:17,094
it. It's a cultural artifact of military and law enforcement circles. Right. And the thing is,

1206
01:20:17,094 --> 01:20:20,634
there are some challenge coins that are now very valuable to the holder.

1207
01:20:20,794 --> 01:20:24,494
They go, Oh, I got a challenge coin from the CIA special ops team. Ooh,

1208
01:20:24,674 --> 01:20:26,874
wow. Wow. Where'd you get that? Like, you know,

1209
01:20:26,874 --> 01:20:29,134
I've got a challenge going from the department of corrections in Oregon.

1210
01:20:29,274 --> 01:20:33,154
You go, eh, so you and 5,000 other guys, big whoop. Right.

1211
01:20:33,254 --> 01:20:36,694
But not very many people have a challenge coin from like the Los Angeles SWAT

1212
01:20:36,694 --> 01:20:41,754
team or the, you know, FBI hostage rescue team or things like that. Right.

1213
01:20:41,754 --> 01:20:45,374
So, so those things become kind of valuable and they can become tradable.

1214
01:20:45,914 --> 01:20:55,854
Now, if you're a space alien that comes down and you show up at the local law enforcement, you know, symposium, and you just look around and go look at these hairless apes, these baboons, these backwards monkeys.

1215
01:20:56,614 --> 01:21:01,194
And, huh, all these guys are trading these little coins they call challenge coins.

1216
01:21:01,274 --> 01:21:02,194
That must be their money.

1217
01:21:02,674 --> 01:21:04,754
OK, so we're going to use this as money.

1218
01:21:05,054 --> 01:21:09,694
So it turns out the FBI, HRT, the hostage rescue team challenge coins are worth a lot.

1219
01:21:09,754 --> 01:21:12,974
So we're going to go make a bunch of those in our spaceship and bring them down here and start doling them out.

1220
01:21:12,974 --> 01:21:17,434
because we noticed that this guy came to this guy and said,

1221
01:21:17,494 --> 01:21:18,754
hey, I have an HRT token.

1222
01:21:19,154 --> 01:21:21,414
I'll trade you for that jacket.

1223
01:21:21,574 --> 01:21:24,714
And the guy goes, oh, yeah, hell yeah, I'll give you this jacket for that coin.

1224
01:21:25,014 --> 01:21:25,914
Oh, it's obviously money.

1225
01:21:25,994 --> 01:21:27,494
They use that to transact value.

1226
01:21:27,614 --> 01:21:28,514
Okay, so that's their money.

1227
01:21:28,734 --> 01:21:31,254
So then they flood the market with challenge coins.

1228
01:21:31,394 --> 01:21:33,334
Everybody, all the law enforcement cops and everybody go,

1229
01:21:33,334 --> 01:21:34,954
oh, these things aren't worth anything anymore

1230
01:21:34,954 --> 01:21:37,494
because these stupid aliens came down and just ruined everything.

1231
01:21:37,794 --> 01:21:40,474
Like now we don't even know what a real challenge coin is or not.

1232
01:21:40,574 --> 01:21:41,674
We don't use them anymore.

1233
01:21:41,834 --> 01:21:42,394
It's worthless.

1234
01:21:42,394 --> 01:21:56,654
They go, well, the stock-to-flow characteristics of challenge coins made it so it was replaced as money because our superior alien doodad widgets are much harder to produce because they're produced in a quantum vacuum in a different galaxy.

1235
01:21:57,254 --> 01:22:08,734
And that's why it's rare and that's why that – the stock-to-flow characteristics of our quantum black dark matter units obviously defeated challenge coins because challenge coins were so easy to make.

1236
01:22:08,734 --> 01:22:14,334
The stock to flow characteristics dominated. That's why quantum dark matter units replaced challenge coins.

1237
01:22:14,454 --> 01:22:19,914
You could hear that, and especially if you're the space aliens, you go, oh, yeah, that makes perfect sense.

1238
01:22:19,974 --> 01:22:21,794
Of course, yeah, stock to flow, right.

1239
01:22:22,394 --> 01:22:25,134
These backwards morons didn't know what real money was.

1240
01:22:25,214 --> 01:22:28,174
They didn't understand sound money. They didn't understand scarcity, morons.

1241
01:22:28,914 --> 01:22:34,994
But that's the same attitude that the European Christians had when they encountered all these native tribes that were trading in these native things.

1242
01:22:35,674 --> 01:22:38,314
And they would come in, and they had a resource capture mentality.

1243
01:22:38,314 --> 01:23:07,194
They go, we use money. These people must be using money because that's the only way humans interact, because that's what Adam Smith said. We understand this to be true because God's divine purpose and our divine purpose is to capture as much land as possible for God because we're Christians. That's our mandate in the world. And these heathens don't even get that. They're obviously backwards. They don't have a bath. They don't have a king. They don't know anything. These guys are morons. And they trade this wampum thing. What? Hell yeah. Let's. Yeah, we can.

1244
01:23:07,194 --> 01:23:12,814
here have some wampum dude well can we have this entire island of manhattan they go yeah sure i

1245
01:23:12,814 --> 01:23:18,054
don't know it's pretty cool wampum i never had seen this one before but it gets diluted right so

1246
01:23:18,054 --> 01:23:22,074
the the bigger problem with wampum is that it actually did get adopted as a currency in the

1247
01:23:22,074 --> 01:23:26,654
colonies but that wasn't because of the native trade that was because of the colonists didn't

1248
01:23:26,654 --> 01:23:31,214
have access to coins the spanish and the portuguese were like dominating the gold trade

1249
01:23:31,214 --> 01:23:36,814
all throughout north america so when it came time to like the colonies getting coins you know king

1250
01:23:36,814 --> 01:23:39,954
George is going, no, no, no. We need that stuff here. You guys figure something else out. And I

1251
01:23:39,954 --> 01:23:43,874
go, well, this wampum thing seems to work. Let's just trade that for a while. We'll just use this

1252
01:23:43,874 --> 01:23:47,774
as our unit of account and our medium of exchange, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The fact that the

1253
01:23:47,774 --> 01:23:54,134
wampum trade collapsed because of the characteristics of wampum being inferior to gold and silver have

1254
01:23:54,134 --> 01:23:59,094
nothing to do with the fact that stock to flow replaced it. If given a choice, none of them would

1255
01:23:59,094 --> 01:24:03,414
have been using wampum. They would have been using gold or they would have been using silver because

1256
01:24:03,414 --> 01:24:04,294
That's what they wanted to use.

1257
01:24:04,334 --> 01:24:05,134
They just didn't have it.

1258
01:24:05,654 --> 01:24:09,434
So because they were in a trading system that required the use of currency and species and

1259
01:24:09,434 --> 01:24:11,574
money and things like that, that's what they adopted.

1260
01:24:12,034 --> 01:24:17,174
But just because they misallocated a cultural artifact doesn't make it money, which doesn't

1261
01:24:17,174 --> 01:24:19,694
make it subject to a stock to flow thesis, I think.

1262
01:24:19,694 --> 01:24:22,114
So that's where I think the argument kind of falls apart.

1263
01:24:22,294 --> 01:24:24,694
And same thing for the Rhystones of Yap and all that kind of stuff.

1264
01:24:24,794 --> 01:24:30,534
There are characteristics of it that are reminiscent of money to us coming from a money idea like

1265
01:24:30,534 --> 01:24:32,134
this is how trade happens kind of idea.

1266
01:24:32,134 --> 01:24:36,434
but if you look at the cultural significance of the rhinestones and why they were valuable and what

1267
01:24:36,434 --> 01:24:41,434
you know what significance was placed on them it's far closer to the challenge coin than it was to

1268
01:24:41,434 --> 01:24:45,654
you know i mean just the fact you get the thing across the water it's like wow you know tom's

1269
01:24:45,654 --> 01:24:51,474
amazing he brought this whole thing over dude yeah like hell yeah he's rich but uh you know the guy

1270
01:24:51,474 --> 01:24:55,494
that i think it was a dutch explorer was down there he said man i can't get these guys to do

1271
01:24:55,494 --> 01:24:59,414
nothing but they'll work like crazy for these rhinestones and we can just put those things on

1272
01:24:59,414 --> 01:25:03,954
ship, dude. We can get that shit anytime we want. So yeah, let's like, let's put them to work, dude,

1273
01:25:04,294 --> 01:25:10,214
money. But then gold and silver replaced it as money. No, that wasn't the purpose of Rhystones

1274
01:25:10,214 --> 01:25:15,814
to begin with, you know? So that's kind of where I land on the stock to flow theory. I'm sure

1275
01:25:15,814 --> 01:25:20,974
somebody that was really immersed in it would dicker with me on the, you know, finer points

1276
01:25:20,974 --> 01:25:26,014
or whatnot, but I kind of liken it to geocentrism anymore. I just go like the idea of like money

1277
01:25:26,014 --> 01:25:31,294
replace the inefficiencies of barter or, you know, credit systems evolved because of this

1278
01:25:31,294 --> 01:25:31,514
and that.

1279
01:25:31,614 --> 01:25:35,114
And I go, well, that's kind of like, well, the earth is the center of the universe and

1280
01:25:35,114 --> 01:25:37,354
all these things, you know, revolve around us.

1281
01:25:37,554 --> 01:25:41,994
And we have to come up with all these different little add-ons to make it work, but it all

1282
01:25:41,994 --> 01:25:43,594
kind of works if you don't look too hard.

1283
01:25:43,954 --> 01:25:48,354
But if you start looking a little deeper, you go, well, maybe, just maybe, the origin

1284
01:25:48,354 --> 01:25:49,294
story is wrong.

1285
01:25:49,694 --> 01:25:51,754
Maybe you're just starting from the wrong starting assumption.

1286
01:25:52,034 --> 01:25:54,294
And then you're piling all these ideas on top of it.

1287
01:25:54,294 --> 01:25:59,074
like stock to flow is kind of like the, you know, whatever, whatever,

1288
01:25:59,194 --> 01:26:04,034
the guy before Copernicus was putting up Ptolemy, Ptolemy,

1289
01:26:04,154 --> 01:26:07,254
I don't know what it is, P-T-O-L-M-E-M-Y, whatever.

1290
01:26:07,594 --> 01:26:10,794
That guy was coming up with all kinds of theories about like, well, you know,

1291
01:26:10,854 --> 01:26:14,114
in this thing, this rotates this way because of this one little wrinkle.

1292
01:26:14,374 --> 01:26:17,774
And that's why the geocentric model still works. Well,

1293
01:26:17,874 --> 01:26:20,894
or maybe it's just wrong model. Like maybe just maybe,

1294
01:26:20,894 --> 01:26:25,834
But it's got a lot of academic momentum, I guess, for lack of a better term.

1295
01:26:26,374 --> 01:26:28,094
So it's hard to disrupt that idea.

1296
01:26:28,254 --> 01:26:30,894
But I think once you see it, you can't unsee it, I think.

1297
01:26:30,974 --> 01:26:33,374
And once you kind of look around and go, oh, yeah, that kind of doesn't make sense.

1298
01:26:33,454 --> 01:26:36,874
Like none of this stuff really makes sense if you start boiling it down to its essentials.

1299
01:26:37,174 --> 01:26:41,374
But it makes a lot of sense if you start your analysis 5,000 years too late.

1300
01:26:41,994 --> 01:26:42,294
Right.

1301
01:26:42,454 --> 01:26:43,374
It feels intuitive.

1302
01:26:43,914 --> 01:26:44,374
Yeah, yeah.

1303
01:26:44,374 --> 01:26:53,134
And it does help, I think, kind of frame things up or compare things, especially as a Bitcoin or comparing it to gold and other commodities.

1304
01:26:53,554 --> 01:26:58,894
It doesn't necessarily maybe explain the origin or whether it was emergent or top down, I guess.

1305
01:26:59,534 --> 01:27:00,694
What about free riding?

1306
01:27:00,794 --> 01:27:01,474
What is free riding?

1307
01:27:01,474 --> 01:27:07,414
Well, free riding is the thing that crops up in most resource captured economies, right?

1308
01:27:07,494 --> 01:27:12,374
Like you can't free ride in an egalitarian hunter gatherer society because everyone knows.

1309
01:27:12,374 --> 01:27:17,394
right like they just and they'll mock you they just go hey come on you didn't do anything what

1310
01:27:17,394 --> 01:27:21,074
are you gonna lay under a tree again if you got good reasons but the guy would never do it right

1311
01:27:21,074 --> 01:27:25,754
because just he would just go oh that's not fair like i gotta go help you know but they would

1312
01:27:25,754 --> 01:27:29,594
certainly recognize like if you got a lame foot they don't just go hey you're not you're not pulling

1313
01:27:29,594 --> 01:27:33,694
your weight pal they're got a bad foot well you're ostracized from the group they just they accept

1314
01:27:33,694 --> 01:27:39,654
because it's it's based on communal sharing right and it's based on community thriving

1315
01:27:39,654 --> 01:27:43,454
like everyone goes well we all got to kind of work together to get along right we all got to

1316
01:27:43,454 --> 01:27:47,254
work together to kind of make this work and we all got to respect each other and each other's

1317
01:27:47,254 --> 01:27:52,274
individuality and we can't like nick things from each other and we can't make one guy go do all the

1318
01:27:52,274 --> 01:27:56,234
work and someone else doesn't and stuff like that so free writing doesn't really show up very much

1319
01:27:56,234 --> 01:28:01,474
just like leadership doesn't show up like both get dealt with almost the same way they just mock

1320
01:28:01,474 --> 01:28:04,714
them relentlessly and shame them into doing it or they kick them out of the group right

1321
01:28:04,714 --> 01:28:10,634
and that's pretty easy but you know when you get to a place where it's like there's a bunch of stuff

1322
01:28:10,634 --> 01:28:15,454
laying around you can free ride like you can kind of go like oh yeah i'm helping with farming this

1323
01:28:15,454 --> 01:28:19,734
week doesn't look like it to me well i got all these potatoes so somehow that worked you know

1324
01:28:19,734 --> 01:28:24,474
and you can kind of beggar your way around things and it's really hard that's why i like all those

1325
01:28:24,474 --> 01:28:27,694
hippie communes always collapse right because there's always free riders there's always some

1326
01:28:27,694 --> 01:28:31,334
guy that goes yeah man i i want to help in the field but like i'm kind of ripping a bong load

1327
01:28:31,334 --> 01:28:35,914
right now and I want to be chill bro it was like why aren't you respecting my individuality you

1328
01:28:35,914 --> 01:28:40,834
know they go because we're feeding you asshole but that's not the communist way right so so they

1329
01:28:40,834 --> 01:28:46,554
kind of mistake like hey we're gonna apply communal thinking to a market process and that's why those

1330
01:28:46,554 --> 01:28:51,494
collapse but it's the same thing that happened in the libertarian communities like my my podcast

1331
01:28:51,494 --> 01:28:55,754
partner Fritz was talking about like a libertarian walked into the woods and met a bear or something

1332
01:28:55,754 --> 01:28:59,394
like that there's a book there's like some libertarian community that kind of cropped up

1333
01:28:59,394 --> 01:29:02,114
and it just sort of collapsed and didn't work because, hey, guess what?

1334
01:29:02,214 --> 01:29:05,754
Like this voluntary, like we're all going to agree to these unspoken rules

1335
01:29:05,754 --> 01:29:09,814
that everyone is just magically supposed to follow without any enforcement mechanism.

1336
01:29:10,134 --> 01:29:11,554
Okay, well, good luck with that.

1337
01:29:13,074 --> 01:29:16,394
That's not how human games get played, right?

1338
01:29:16,694 --> 01:29:18,194
And what we are playing is a game.

1339
01:29:18,454 --> 01:29:20,594
It's just a game with lethal consequences.

1340
01:29:21,014 --> 01:29:24,874
So that's the sort of free riding thing.

1341
01:29:25,054 --> 01:29:28,514
It's where you can kind of come in, get things for not doing anything, right?

1342
01:29:28,514 --> 01:29:33,934
And if you have to pay in specie, that kind of, you know, then it's either you're stealing or you're free riding.

1343
01:29:34,234 --> 01:29:43,734
But, you know, it elevates you to you have to do something to get the resources to keep going, which is why there's so much free riding going on in the United States right now.

1344
01:29:43,794 --> 01:29:50,074
Like if you just look around every city in America that's in especially in the blue states, it's just a run with people like sleeping on the street.

1345
01:29:50,594 --> 01:29:51,534
They go, they're homeless.

1346
01:29:51,634 --> 01:29:52,354
They go, they're bums.

1347
01:29:52,494 --> 01:29:53,254
There's a difference.

1348
01:29:53,254 --> 01:29:58,534
Like none of these people are like involuntarily homeless where they go, oh, I can't find a house and I was working it.

1349
01:29:58,854 --> 01:30:00,634
There are lethal consequences to the game.

1350
01:30:00,854 --> 01:30:08,254
And it seems like the game gets much more complex, which actually like leads to less sort of lethal outcomes, I think, for random players.

1351
01:30:09,094 --> 01:30:09,334
Yeah.

1352
01:30:09,634 --> 01:30:17,334
Or these and the game's gotten a little bit more refined and you kind of have to less people could kind of have leverage over the system.

1353
01:30:17,714 --> 01:30:17,974
Right.

1354
01:30:17,974 --> 01:30:26,654
Maybe fiat affects that and warps that a little differently than if the system or the game, the way it's designed, had leak-free money.

1355
01:30:26,914 --> 01:30:32,514
But where I wanted to go with this is I wanted to get into greed.

1356
01:30:33,094 --> 01:30:34,634
You're going for the deep dive, man.

1357
01:30:35,314 --> 01:30:37,554
Yeah, no, this is interesting stuff.

1358
01:30:38,114 --> 01:30:38,674
Oh, thank you.

1359
01:30:39,274 --> 01:30:45,474
So when you think about greed, maybe you use Elon Musk as a great foil in the book, so maybe we could talk about Elon.

1360
01:30:45,474 --> 01:30:47,994
I mean, is Elon greedy?

1361
01:30:48,374 --> 01:30:51,134
You know, I'll ask it like that.

1362
01:30:51,454 --> 01:30:54,734
Well, I think it's a great question to ask, right?

1363
01:30:54,794 --> 01:31:01,234
Because that's one of the problems with the notion of greed is you kind of go, well, what does it mean to be greedy?

1364
01:31:01,534 --> 01:31:07,954
And I kind of provide dictionary definitions like, well, taking more than you need and this and that and the other thing.

1365
01:31:08,034 --> 01:31:09,114
Okay, well, define need.

1366
01:31:09,274 --> 01:31:12,254
And I think it sounds very pedantic and I think it sounds very academic.

1367
01:31:12,254 --> 01:31:15,534
And yet it matters if you're going to say, well, that person's greedy.

1368
01:31:15,814 --> 01:31:22,014
And when you start talking, when you add in like the Randian sense of like, you know,

1369
01:31:22,254 --> 01:31:24,954
rational self-interest and then what is this and what is that?

1370
01:31:25,294 --> 01:31:27,134
It becomes a very convoluted topic.

1371
01:31:27,394 --> 01:31:30,994
But like if you looked at Elon Musk and you say, well, what's that guy worth?

1372
01:31:31,314 --> 01:31:33,434
You go, you know, $100 billion, $200 billion.

1373
01:31:33,714 --> 01:31:34,714
Does he need all that?

1374
01:31:35,194 --> 01:31:36,474
Well, based on who?

1375
01:31:36,614 --> 01:31:38,274
I mean, he thinks he needs it, right?

1376
01:31:38,914 --> 01:31:41,414
But how much of that is like liquid net worth?

1377
01:31:41,414 --> 01:31:42,094
I don't know.

1378
01:31:42,254 --> 01:31:45,854
But what game is he playing? Because that's an argument.

1379
01:31:46,134 --> 01:31:52,874
Like if someone being greedy is a value judgment that you that you as an NPC and me as an NPC or what I call resources.

1380
01:31:52,874 --> 01:31:57,214
Like if there are two chickens on the chicken farm and they go, hey, that chicken's taking way too much feed.

1381
01:31:57,414 --> 01:32:00,834
That chicken's greedy. The farmer's looking at it goes, he doesn't.

1382
01:32:01,434 --> 01:32:05,974
Yeah, that chicken's smarter than you are, whatever. I mean that he's not going to care.

1383
01:32:06,194 --> 01:32:11,134
The farmer is there to get resources from you. The farmer wants you to produce eggs and meat.

1384
01:32:11,134 --> 01:32:20,514
And if you don't produce eggs and meat, he just kind of goes, ah, you're not really worth anything to me. So he's going to chop you up and turn you into feed for the other chickens, or he's going to feed you the hogs or however that works, right?

1385
01:32:20,514 --> 01:32:42,494
But, you know, so with Elon Musk, my sort of takeaway from whether or not he's greedy as I go, if you look at what the guy's doing in a competitive resource capture game where the idea of the game, the concept of the game, the core purpose of the game is capturing control as much resources as you can.

1386
01:32:42,494 --> 01:32:45,554
He controls a constellation of low-Earth satellites.

1387
01:32:46,334 --> 01:32:55,474
He controls the largest fleet of launch-capable vehicles like gravity escape velocity vehicles on planet Earth, and it's all under private control.

1388
01:32:56,094 --> 01:32:59,754
He controls an infrastructure project in the boring machine.

1389
01:32:59,954 --> 01:33:06,654
He controls an energy grid project in the solar company, whatever it's called, Tesla Energy.

1390
01:33:06,654 --> 01:33:14,934
He also is a major auto manufacturer, so he controls light industry and potentially getting into heavy industry if you count SpaceX.

1391
01:33:15,594 --> 01:33:18,114
So what kind of resources are under this guy's control?

1392
01:33:18,514 --> 01:33:19,174
Oh, my God.

1393
01:33:20,194 --> 01:33:25,814
Defense, communications, public and private infrastructure, light and heavy industry.

1394
01:33:26,454 --> 01:33:26,654
Huh.

1395
01:33:27,674 --> 01:33:28,974
Well, is he greedy or is he rich?

1396
01:33:29,074 --> 01:33:30,114
No, he's just playing the game.

1397
01:33:30,214 --> 01:33:32,254
He's capturing resources as quick as he can.

1398
01:33:32,334 --> 01:33:34,414
He's pretty clever at it, and he's really, really good at it.

1399
01:33:34,414 --> 01:33:49,716
But at the end of it you go well I hope this guy is benevolent because good grief he got a lot of power He wields extraordinary power And I don think people have quite realized what he amassed yet There are huge fans of Elon Musk

1400
01:33:49,796 --> 01:33:55,416
I was talking to Dominic Frisbee in BTC Prague, and he's a big Elon Musk fan.

1401
01:33:55,576 --> 01:33:57,136
I think Frisbee is hilarious.

1402
01:33:57,336 --> 01:33:59,256
I mean he's a really brilliant thinker.

1403
01:33:59,816 --> 01:34:03,436
And I was talking to him about Musk, and I go, well, you've got to understand.

1404
01:34:03,516 --> 01:34:06,436
The guy controls the internet now effectively.

1405
01:34:06,436 --> 01:34:07,096
He will.

1406
01:34:07,676 --> 01:34:11,556
Within five to ten years, like all network communications are going to route through Starlink.

1407
01:34:12,416 --> 01:34:13,516
Now, that couldn't happen.

1408
01:34:13,616 --> 01:34:13,976
Why would that?

1409
01:34:14,136 --> 01:34:16,576
You know, Verizon's got all these cables and this, that, and the other thing.

1410
01:34:16,656 --> 01:34:21,096
Okay, well, Starlink, for them to upgrade, they have to do a software upgrade.

1411
01:34:21,376 --> 01:34:22,796
They have to launch a few more satellites.

1412
01:34:22,936 --> 01:34:24,456
They're launching a few hundred a week.

1413
01:34:25,236 --> 01:34:28,076
Pretty soon, there's going to be 50,000 of those things floating around.

1414
01:34:28,536 --> 01:34:36,416
And if you're Verizon and you look at your balance sheet and you say, well, we've got to do, I don't know, $4.6 billion in infrastructure upgrades.

1415
01:34:36,416 --> 01:34:37,916
just to keep up with Starlink.

1416
01:34:38,356 --> 01:34:39,856
But then they patch a new upgrade and go,

1417
01:34:39,896 --> 01:34:41,776
oh shit, now we got to do another 10 billion

1418
01:34:41,776 --> 01:34:43,116
just to keep up with his speeds

1419
01:34:43,116 --> 01:34:46,176
and we'll never reach most of his customers.

1420
01:34:46,596 --> 01:34:47,536
What are we going to do?

1421
01:34:48,236 --> 01:34:50,276
Well, Elon called and said,

1422
01:34:50,376 --> 01:34:52,496
you guys can just lease access to Starlink

1423
01:34:52,496 --> 01:34:54,616
and you can keep selling Verizon as a service

1424
01:34:54,616 --> 01:34:57,136
and you can still be collecting checks.

1425
01:34:57,176 --> 01:34:58,276
You just have to do a premium.

1426
01:34:58,456 --> 01:34:59,596
We'll give you a network access

1427
01:34:59,596 --> 01:35:01,176
and you just route all your traffic through me.

1428
01:35:01,436 --> 01:35:02,576
Oh, that makes a lot of sense.

1429
01:35:03,096 --> 01:35:04,216
Like we don't have to lay any cable.

1430
01:35:04,296 --> 01:35:04,916
We just make money.

1431
01:35:05,056 --> 01:35:05,216
Yep.

1432
01:35:06,016 --> 01:35:06,336
Cool.

1433
01:35:06,416 --> 01:35:15,216
And AT&T, same thing. And, you know, whoever else, T-Mobile and every single telecommunications, anybody that's passing data around the planet.

1434
01:35:15,716 --> 01:35:19,316
If you have to do terrestrial infrastructure, that doesn't make any sense.

1435
01:35:19,316 --> 01:35:28,136
If there's a pipeline right above your head, that's like just as fast, just as quick and upgrades faster than you can even come up with a proposal for the board.

1436
01:35:28,816 --> 01:35:39,036
So pretty soon, unless you're just a baboon that is just dead set on creating fiber lines all around the world, you just eventually drift to Starlink.

1437
01:35:39,136 --> 01:35:40,956
And I think Elon Musk is aware of this.

1438
01:35:41,296 --> 01:35:43,776
I mean, because once you see it, you can't unsee it.

1439
01:35:43,856 --> 01:35:45,976
You go, oh, yeah, of course that makes sense, right?

1440
01:35:46,276 --> 01:35:50,936
But that also puts one guy in charge of all global telecommunications.

1441
01:35:51,316 --> 01:35:52,116
Is that powerful?

1442
01:35:52,416 --> 01:35:52,736
Ooh.

1443
01:35:53,856 --> 01:35:54,916
Yeah, I think so.

1444
01:35:54,916 --> 01:35:57,316
I think that's probably a pretty big effing deal.

1445
01:35:58,136 --> 01:36:06,516
And he happens to also reside in a country where he's rabble-rousing like crazy and pushing for all kinds of America first stuff.

1446
01:36:06,596 --> 01:36:09,096
And I go, of course, because this is your power base.

1447
01:36:09,336 --> 01:36:18,736
And if you can acquire power within the power structure that is currently dominating the global monetary network, wow, you got a powerful one-two punch there.

1448
01:36:18,816 --> 01:36:20,556
We control all communications and the money.

1449
01:36:20,736 --> 01:36:22,876
So welcome to America, suckers.

1450
01:36:24,816 --> 01:36:26,876
Plus, he's got military capabilities.

1451
01:36:26,876 --> 01:36:29,216
He's deeply embedded with the military industrial complex.

1452
01:36:29,216 --> 01:36:32,616
Like if you Cedric tomorrow wanted to build a launch capable vehicle,

1453
01:36:32,616 --> 01:36:33,536
like a earth,

1454
01:36:33,916 --> 01:36:38,276
like an escape velocity vehicle in your backyard and then go send it up in

1455
01:36:38,276 --> 01:36:38,676
space.

1456
01:36:38,676 --> 01:36:41,036
There's going to be some people coming by in suits going like,

1457
01:36:41,116 --> 01:36:41,556
hi Cedric,

1458
01:36:41,676 --> 01:36:45,716
we're here from all sorts of places that are going to talk to you about your

1459
01:36:45,716 --> 01:36:47,976
little project here and what you think you're trying to do.

1460
01:36:48,056 --> 01:36:48,716
And we're,

1461
01:36:48,836 --> 01:36:49,076
yeah,

1462
01:36:49,116 --> 01:36:49,376
no.

1463
01:36:50,116 --> 01:36:54,256
So somehow he's managed to just be launching these all the time.

1464
01:36:54,256 --> 01:36:57,896
and he's kind of navigated all that weird regulatory hurdles and things like that.

1465
01:36:58,636 --> 01:37:00,956
So now he is very much a player on the board.

1466
01:37:01,236 --> 01:37:02,416
We are NPCs.

1467
01:37:02,476 --> 01:37:03,136
We are resources.

1468
01:37:03,336 --> 01:37:05,296
We are things that are being extracted from.

1469
01:37:05,436 --> 01:37:07,356
He is a guy that is doing the extracting.

1470
01:37:07,796 --> 01:37:12,316
So he's one of the sovereigns in the world right now that controls vast amounts of resources

1471
01:37:12,316 --> 01:37:14,036
and is becoming increasingly powerful.

1472
01:37:14,336 --> 01:37:19,016
So part of the point of that little treatise on Elon Musk is to go,

1473
01:37:19,496 --> 01:37:22,896
hey, it's fun to talk about greed and who's being greedy, who's not being greedy,

1474
01:37:22,896 --> 01:37:25,656
and capitalism drives greed and this, that, and the other thing.

1475
01:37:25,656 --> 01:37:29,736
But that's not the purpose of the game is to like just randomly hoard things.

1476
01:37:30,496 --> 01:37:34,536
There are people that exhibit those traits and peacock around with Lamborghinis

1477
01:37:34,536 --> 01:37:36,276
and yo, I'm crypto bro, whatever.

1478
01:37:36,276 --> 01:37:38,956
And I got, look, check out my rings, check out my stuff, you know,

1479
01:37:38,956 --> 01:37:40,036
but those guys aren't there.

1480
01:37:40,036 --> 01:37:42,156
They're just like peacocking.

1481
01:37:42,156 --> 01:37:45,216
That's like a chicken running around the chicken farm with, you know,

1482
01:37:45,216 --> 01:37:48,496
really brilliant feathers and the farmer still doesn't care.

1483
01:37:48,496 --> 01:37:51,416
He goes, well, you're going to give me meat and eggs sooner or later, dude.

1484
01:37:51,416 --> 01:37:53,596
It doesn't matter what you dress like.

1485
01:37:53,636 --> 01:37:54,756
You're still meat and eggs to me.

1486
01:37:54,976 --> 01:37:59,056
But right now, like if Elon Musk started as one of the chickens, now he's standing there

1487
01:37:59,056 --> 01:38:01,896
in overalls with a pitchfork and he holds a bunch of land.

1488
01:38:01,996 --> 01:38:04,556
He's going, well, not a chicken anymore, guys.

1489
01:38:05,056 --> 01:38:06,036
I'm one of you now.

1490
01:38:06,176 --> 01:38:08,736
So that's kind of where part of that was going.

1491
01:38:08,896 --> 01:38:14,416
But a lot of it just traces back to like even the old, you know, like the English hierarchies.

1492
01:38:14,516 --> 01:38:17,276
And it was touching a little bit on the idea of natural law.

1493
01:38:17,356 --> 01:38:19,616
Like this is in accordance with the laws of nature.

1494
01:38:19,616 --> 01:38:20,876
And I think people say that a lot.

1495
01:38:20,876 --> 01:38:22,376
Like, oh, it's just the law of nature, right?

1496
01:38:22,896 --> 01:38:24,596
Well, what does that mean?

1497
01:38:24,716 --> 01:38:27,576
Well, back in the day, that actually had a meaning in the 1800s.

1498
01:38:27,756 --> 01:38:35,296
They said, well, the laws of nature say that each object has an essence, a character, and that object has to adhere to its character.

1499
01:38:35,696 --> 01:38:38,616
A rock has to be a rock because that's its nature.

1500
01:38:39,136 --> 01:38:42,756
And obviously that sounds absurd and preposterous to anybody today.

1501
01:38:42,756 --> 01:38:53,156
What are you talking about? A rock is because of chemicals and chemical bonds and spooky interference at a distance and whatever physics that are coming into play, what makes a rock a rock.

1502
01:38:53,556 --> 01:38:58,476
They certainly wouldn't say it has a characteristic ordained by God that it's trying to live up to as a rock.

1503
01:38:58,576 --> 01:39:11,176
But if you start extrapolating that out to like, well, how come there are people that are like the gentry that control like vast tracts of land in England, but there are peasants that work that field?

1504
01:39:11,456 --> 01:39:12,736
Well, that's the laws of nature.

1505
01:39:13,116 --> 01:39:16,896
You know, the laws of nature dictate that there are some people that are born to be leaders

1506
01:39:16,896 --> 01:39:21,656
and they're just doing leadership things because that's their nature.

1507
01:39:21,776 --> 01:39:22,616
That's in their nature.

1508
01:39:22,756 --> 01:39:23,736
That's ordained by God.

1509
01:39:23,796 --> 01:39:24,536
You can't change it.

1510
01:39:24,596 --> 01:39:26,096
They just have to do leader things.

1511
01:39:26,416 --> 01:39:28,376
And there are some people that are just born to be workers.

1512
01:39:28,576 --> 01:39:31,036
So those people are just adhering to the laws of nature.

1513
01:39:31,616 --> 01:39:35,416
And it's a toxic idea if you allow it to propagate.

1514
01:39:35,976 --> 01:39:37,496
But people still say it to this day.

1515
01:39:37,636 --> 01:39:39,316
Oh, it's just the laws of nature.

1516
01:39:39,716 --> 01:39:40,996
They don't even think about what they're saying.

1517
01:39:41,176 --> 01:39:42,256
Because it sounds intuitive.

1518
01:39:42,376 --> 01:39:43,376
It sounds, oh, yeah, of course.

1519
01:39:43,656 --> 01:39:44,736
We all understand nature.

1520
01:39:44,816 --> 01:39:46,196
We all understand what the law of nature is.

1521
01:39:46,276 --> 01:39:48,516
The law of nature says it, but they don't.

1522
01:39:48,816 --> 01:39:50,016
Because you ask them to define it.

1523
01:39:50,176 --> 01:39:51,696
It's the same problem.

1524
01:39:52,056 --> 01:39:57,656
I can't remember what psychologist wrote the paper and said, hey, ask anybody, do you know how a zipper works?

1525
01:39:57,716 --> 01:39:58,456
They go, of course, yeah.

1526
01:39:58,516 --> 01:39:59,256
Okay, describe it.

1527
01:39:59,256 --> 01:40:04,556
They go, well, there's a thing.

1528
01:40:04,756 --> 01:40:07,316
It's like a tab, and then the things go together.

1529
01:40:07,516 --> 01:40:08,476
I go, yeah, but how does it work?

1530
01:40:08,476 --> 01:40:11,856
I guess I don't know how the zipper works, right?

1531
01:40:12,116 --> 01:40:14,496
But it sounds absurd until you try and spell it out.

1532
01:40:14,556 --> 01:40:18,736
I think it's the same thing is true with the law of nature or money or power or greed or any of this stuff.

1533
01:40:18,836 --> 01:40:20,056
I go, okay, well, how does that work?

1534
01:40:20,136 --> 01:40:24,056
And they go, well, you know, they just end up stumped.

1535
01:40:24,236 --> 01:40:29,976
And so they might reach for their first thing that they heard in their college textbook back in 1976 or whatever.

1536
01:40:29,976 --> 01:40:54,736
But I think these concepts deserve unpacking just because if we're going to try and understand the world we're in, and especially if we are truly a bunch of NPCs or just resources, and we all have access to this amazing property right called Bitcoin, it might behoove us to understand the game that we're actually playing and what that thing means and why it's important and why we should preserve it and cherish it and all those sort of things I think come out.

1537
01:40:54,736 --> 01:41:01,596
I think they're less so if you stay in the matrix or at least most of the time in the matrix because you want to eat your steak.

1538
01:41:02,116 --> 01:41:08,096
And, you know, I just I just want to have a steak, you know, like that kind of that kind of attitude, I think, permeates the Bitcoin space.

1539
01:41:08,096 --> 01:41:14,636
And I'd like to see that sort of shift a little bit more to the tangible meat space of the game we're actually playing and where it's headed and why.

1540
01:41:14,996 --> 01:41:18,156
Yeah. And maybe what is good about the game and what is the game holding together?

1541
01:41:18,156 --> 01:41:20,256
Maybe we don't want to get rid of the whole game.

1542
01:41:21,036 --> 01:41:23,336
I just maybe put different water through the pipes.

1543
01:41:24,016 --> 01:41:26,956
So then, you know, what is, let's look at free will and choice,

1544
01:41:26,956 --> 01:41:29,196
but let's look at it through the lens of the Federal Reserve.

1545
01:41:30,216 --> 01:41:32,736
And sort of like, you know, good and evil.

1546
01:41:33,036 --> 01:41:38,296
I mean, do you think, did you subscribe to the Jekyll Island theory that, you know,

1547
01:41:38,336 --> 01:41:43,396
a few people got together with all the power they've amassed and were like,

1548
01:41:43,476 --> 01:41:48,056
we're just going to bend all the rules to our will so that we can hoard and collect resources

1549
01:41:48,056 --> 01:41:49,676
and put everyone under our spell?

1550
01:41:50,136 --> 01:41:51,276
I do not.

1551
01:41:51,276 --> 01:42:21,156
I mean it puts me at odds with like a lot of Bitcoin sort of dogma for lack of a better term right but like I see a lot of Bitcoin oh you got to read Jekyll Island this will change your mind and you know but I also know the history of the Federal Reserve right and I cite a paper in there and you can actually like the guy that wrote that paper was there when the Federal Reserve was being created and so were there powerful people that got together and tried to figure out a problem yes absolutely 100% were they an evil cabal lizard people that were secretly trying to figure out how to control everything from their

1552
01:42:21,156 --> 01:42:25,676
a little retreat on Jekyll Island to go, yeah, that's more of a stretch than otherwise.

1553
01:42:25,936 --> 01:42:30,236
There was a big problem with like, how do we redeem greenbacks back in the day?

1554
01:42:31,076 --> 01:42:33,156
Why don't we just go back to a silver standard?

1555
01:42:33,276 --> 01:42:34,576
Why don't we have a bimetal standard?

1556
01:42:34,916 --> 01:42:37,476
And this was a Republican talking point back then.

1557
01:42:37,476 --> 01:42:41,356
And they would just never pull the trigger because it implicated too many other problems.

1558
01:42:41,716 --> 01:42:44,956
So they had all these problems of like, how do we pay for the war debts?

1559
01:42:45,076 --> 01:42:46,696
How do we get this thing working?

1560
01:42:47,136 --> 01:42:49,656
Our banking system is absolute and utter chaos.

1561
01:42:49,656 --> 01:42:50,996
It's a complete shitshow.

1562
01:42:51,156 --> 01:42:54,216
Like we've got wildcat banks showing up all the time.

1563
01:42:54,296 --> 01:42:55,096
They just go bankrupt.

1564
01:42:55,336 --> 01:42:56,836
Like it wrecks all these people.

1565
01:42:56,936 --> 01:42:58,176
Like nobody knows what the hell they're doing.

1566
01:42:58,516 --> 01:43:05,136
But it kind of reminds me like the banking system in the United States in the 1800s was a lot like the crypto ecosystem today.

1567
01:43:05,236 --> 01:43:07,216
It's just like, yeah, we just do shit.

1568
01:43:07,376 --> 01:43:10,136
And we, you know, and we're worth a billion dollars.

1569
01:43:10,236 --> 01:43:10,776
Okay, cool.

1570
01:43:10,876 --> 01:43:11,776
Okay, we're zero.

1571
01:43:11,936 --> 01:43:12,496
Like, wait, what?

1572
01:43:12,656 --> 01:43:13,336
How did that happen?

1573
01:43:13,736 --> 01:43:16,636
Well, because like, you know, math and things and other things happen.

1574
01:43:16,756 --> 01:43:18,496
And this guy did this and then this.

1575
01:43:18,636 --> 01:43:20,656
But it was all vapor to begin with.

1576
01:43:20,656 --> 01:43:22,776
That was like every wildcat bank back in the day.

1577
01:43:22,876 --> 01:43:26,056
So you never knew what was like a quality project or a not quality project.

1578
01:43:26,256 --> 01:43:27,516
And all of them were trash.

1579
01:43:27,576 --> 01:43:28,956
It was just like they're all shit coins now.

1580
01:43:28,956 --> 01:43:42,316
So they're trying to solve that problem because you can't run like you can't have this sort of bifurcated federalist system or not even bifurcated, but just like fractured federalist system with all these different people pulling all these different directions and not have like a uniform currency.

1581
01:43:42,436 --> 01:43:46,796
But you can't do that with the fractured federal system because of reasons and problems there.

1582
01:43:46,796 --> 01:43:50,456
and you've got this collective war debt that you're trying to figure out how to redeem and

1583
01:43:50,456 --> 01:43:54,076
make it so the whole country doesn't go bankrupt and we don't want another banking crisis and yada

1584
01:43:54,076 --> 01:44:02,696
yada how do we weave this little thing i've got it that's what if we did xyz we peg gold to these

1585
01:44:02,696 --> 01:44:07,336
pieces of paper but we're going to back it from this thing that's a separate entity from the feds

1586
01:44:07,336 --> 01:44:10,616
because we can't really do it under the constitution because that wouldn't really work

1587
01:44:10,616 --> 01:44:14,436
but i think we can pull this off what are you guys saying yeah that sounds like a pretty good

1588
01:44:14,436 --> 01:44:18,616
idea but we'll make sure it's like independent from the political body yeah yeah yeah so there's

1589
01:44:18,616 --> 01:44:23,356
no so there's no chance of manipulation yeah it's a great idea tom good good job you know

1590
01:44:23,356 --> 01:44:31,636
but they they're they're always throughout all of these like how do you manage your resources right

1591
01:44:31,636 --> 01:44:36,336
the chicken will look at the farmer and go this farmer's doing these things because he's part of

1592
01:44:36,336 --> 01:44:40,336
the evil cabal of farmers that all do farmer things because they want to just they want to

1593
01:44:40,336 --> 01:44:43,696
squeeze more eggs out of us but the farmer has very different point of view the farmer's like

1594
01:44:43,696 --> 01:44:48,716
oh shit man like all tom's chickens had to get cold last year and that kind of sucked and we want

1595
01:44:48,716 --> 01:44:52,036
to avoid that here so we got to give all these chickens a shot but the chickens get really pissy

1596
01:44:52,036 --> 01:44:55,456
and they don't make enough eggs so if we give them another shot they'll make more eggs they go see

1597
01:44:55,456 --> 01:44:58,856
what they're doing you see what they're doing to us they're trying to control us and go well yeah

1598
01:44:58,856 --> 01:45:02,236
they're kind of they're trying to make sure you keep producing eggs like that's all they care

1599
01:45:02,236 --> 01:45:07,716
about they don't care about like you're like is this fair you know like that those are rules for

1600
01:45:07,716 --> 01:45:12,696
the npcs to interact but just like a player running through a game with npcs you don't like

1601
01:45:12,696 --> 01:45:15,316
if you bowl an NPC over with your car in Grand Theft Auto,

1602
01:45:15,476 --> 01:45:16,636
you're going to go, oh my God, the poor NPC.

1603
01:45:17,196 --> 01:45:19,756
But if there was an NPC coalition, it was like, this is unfair.

1604
01:45:20,216 --> 01:45:22,556
The guy that's playing the game is always running us down.

1605
01:45:22,856 --> 01:45:25,136
We need to come up with a rule that he can't run us down anymore.

1606
01:45:25,796 --> 01:45:26,816
But the player is just going to, like,

1607
01:45:26,836 --> 01:45:29,596
if the player really likes running down, you know, NPCs, he's just,

1608
01:45:29,676 --> 01:45:31,256
oh, I found a hack around that.

1609
01:45:31,696 --> 01:45:32,656
I'm just going to squish you this way.

1610
01:45:32,736 --> 01:45:34,756
So that's kind of my analogy there.

1611
01:45:35,116 --> 01:45:36,736
It might be a loose, terrible analogy.

1612
01:45:36,736 --> 01:45:40,196
But if you're talking about people that are in control of resources

1613
01:45:40,196 --> 01:45:43,336
and how they're extracting value from those resources.

1614
01:45:43,476 --> 01:45:45,996
How are they maximizing the productivity of those resources?

1615
01:45:46,516 --> 01:45:48,556
I think through trial and error, they figured out,

1616
01:45:48,676 --> 01:45:50,256
hey, if we get these people to trade

1617
01:45:50,256 --> 01:45:52,636
and we get these people kind of fat and happy,

1618
01:45:52,836 --> 01:45:54,176
they get way more productive,

1619
01:45:54,336 --> 01:45:55,936
which means we control way more stuff.

1620
01:45:56,156 --> 01:45:57,036
That's pretty neat.

1621
01:45:57,176 --> 01:45:59,776
Like that gives us more power because we have more things.

1622
01:46:00,136 --> 01:46:02,196
So let's keep encouraging that.

1623
01:46:02,296 --> 01:46:05,856
And if we screw that up, then well, shoot,

1624
01:46:05,856 --> 01:46:07,416
we'll try and figure out a different way

1625
01:46:07,416 --> 01:46:10,636
to keep that resource capture game going,

1626
01:46:10,776 --> 01:46:13,696
but it also provides a new surface area for attack

1627
01:46:13,696 --> 01:46:16,416
because in the maximization of resources,

1628
01:46:16,716 --> 01:46:18,196
there's this other group of people who goes,

1629
01:46:18,276 --> 01:46:20,056
hey, you see this is unfair, right?

1630
01:46:20,396 --> 01:46:21,796
We can fix that.

1631
01:46:22,256 --> 01:46:23,276
We have the solution.

1632
01:46:23,556 --> 01:46:25,616
It's called communism or socialism or whatever.

1633
01:46:25,756 --> 01:46:27,656
So all they do is provide a new lever

1634
01:46:27,656 --> 01:46:29,396
for a new resource capture guy to come in.

1635
01:46:29,396 --> 01:46:30,996
So the people that are running the thing goes,

1636
01:46:31,076 --> 01:46:32,796
hey, we make people super productive

1637
01:46:32,796 --> 01:46:33,916
by keeping them busy

1638
01:46:33,916 --> 01:46:37,016
and making them make widgets and ding-dongs and things.

1639
01:46:37,416 --> 01:46:39,956
And making them fat and happy, that makes us rich.

1640
01:46:40,056 --> 01:46:49,256
But now they're so rich that they're really pissed off about how they don't have more widgets and ding-dongs because they feel like they're just working way too much by pushing email at the office this week.

1641
01:46:49,336 --> 01:46:52,696
So this other group of people is now trying to take power from us.

1642
01:46:53,616 --> 01:46:57,716
So how about we just adopt some of the things those power-capturing guys are trying to do?

1643
01:46:57,856 --> 01:46:59,216
Well, okay, we'll give you Social Security.

1644
01:46:59,216 --> 01:47:08,776
So there's just like this iterative process where people are just weaving the halls of power, trying to maintain their structural control over the resources under their domain.

1645
01:47:09,276 --> 01:47:13,356
The trouble with communism is it doesn't work because it's based on a market system, right?

1646
01:47:13,376 --> 01:47:16,876
So you can't come in and do communal – just like the hippie communes didn't work.

1647
01:47:16,936 --> 01:47:18,296
It doesn't work on a nation-state level.

1648
01:47:18,336 --> 01:47:19,876
It doesn't work any better with scale.

1649
01:47:20,236 --> 01:47:22,116
And it just misallocates things.

1650
01:47:22,176 --> 01:47:22,696
It collapses.

1651
01:47:23,016 --> 01:47:25,956
And then it devolves right back down to, guess what, gangs, chaos.

1652
01:47:26,056 --> 01:47:27,376
The gangs come into power.

1653
01:47:27,376 --> 01:47:29,456
They seize control of the resources.

1654
01:47:29,696 --> 01:47:32,276
If they're benevolent and smart, they marshal those resources effectively.

1655
01:47:32,536 --> 01:47:37,656
They start funneling those resources back down so they can make their people fat and happy again, so they can make them more productive.

1656
01:47:38,156 --> 01:47:39,536
That's Russia, right?

1657
01:47:39,636 --> 01:47:42,556
I mean it's like you can just – it was painted right in front of everybody.

1658
01:47:42,676 --> 01:47:44,276
They can see it unfold right in front of them.

1659
01:47:44,336 --> 01:47:44,876
They go, what happened?

1660
01:47:45,016 --> 01:47:51,496
Well, they were this sort of pseudo-peasant market economy with a legacy monarch.

1661
01:47:52,416 --> 01:47:57,196
The communists came in and seized power, and then they drove everything into the ground and starved like 40 million people.

1662
01:47:57,196 --> 01:47:58,356
and that kind of sucked ass.

1663
01:47:58,576 --> 01:47:59,856
And so, of course, that collapsed

1664
01:47:59,856 --> 01:48:01,256
because nobody wants to keep doing that.

1665
01:48:01,456 --> 01:48:02,116
So who took over?

1666
01:48:02,236 --> 01:48:04,076
Well, all the people that were amassing power

1667
01:48:04,076 --> 01:48:05,796
behind the scenes in communist land

1668
01:48:05,796 --> 01:48:08,156
because that's what happens with any power seizure.

1669
01:48:08,596 --> 01:48:09,456
It doesn't matter if you're capitalist,

1670
01:48:09,596 --> 01:48:10,536
communist, socialist, whatever.

1671
01:48:10,736 --> 01:48:11,656
Power's going to flow up.

1672
01:48:11,936 --> 01:48:13,196
Resources flow up, period.

1673
01:48:14,076 --> 01:48:15,876
Capitalism is kind of neat in a way

1674
01:48:15,876 --> 01:48:17,276
because it also allows resources

1675
01:48:17,276 --> 01:48:18,596
to flow back down and around.

1676
01:48:18,596 --> 01:48:20,576
So everyone gets a little more fat and happy,

1677
01:48:20,716 --> 01:48:23,216
but the people at the top get really fabulously rich.

1678
01:48:23,496 --> 01:48:24,596
The communists come in

1679
01:48:24,596 --> 01:48:26,316
and they just get fabulously rich

1680
01:48:26,316 --> 01:48:28,956
by extracting what's left amongst the plebs.

1681
01:48:29,036 --> 01:48:30,176
And then they starve and get pissed.

1682
01:48:30,296 --> 01:48:31,776
And then somebody else comes in

1683
01:48:31,776 --> 01:48:33,156
and starts the game over again.

1684
01:48:33,216 --> 01:48:33,856
They come in and go,

1685
01:48:33,956 --> 01:48:35,536
hey, this thing's all broken now.

1686
01:48:35,596 --> 01:48:36,616
Everyone's rioting in the streets.

1687
01:48:36,696 --> 01:48:37,196
There's bread lines.

1688
01:48:37,256 --> 01:48:37,956
Nobody has anything.

1689
01:48:38,056 --> 01:48:38,696
It's fucking chaos.

1690
01:48:38,776 --> 01:48:39,356
Everybody hates it.

1691
01:48:40,016 --> 01:48:41,296
I'm here to fix that.

1692
01:48:41,736 --> 01:48:42,416
How are you going to do that?

1693
01:48:42,476 --> 01:48:43,876
Well, all my thugs are going to go around

1694
01:48:43,876 --> 01:48:45,116
and bash the shit out of anybody

1695
01:48:45,116 --> 01:48:46,416
that does anything we don't like.

1696
01:48:46,476 --> 01:48:47,516
And then we're going to, you know,

1697
01:48:47,576 --> 01:48:49,496
iron fist this thing back into coherence.

1698
01:48:49,596 --> 01:48:50,656
If that happens in Cuba,

1699
01:48:50,656 --> 01:48:51,976
you end up with Fidel Castro.

1700
01:48:52,116 --> 01:48:52,916
If it happens in Russia,

1701
01:48:53,116 --> 01:48:54,396
a nuclear armed peer,

1702
01:48:55,036 --> 01:48:56,056
it turns into Russia.

1703
01:48:56,056 --> 01:49:00,496
right where you go hey we kind of got the vestiges of a market economy we've kind of got some

1704
01:49:00,496 --> 01:49:06,556
semblance of like the order and has been restored for the most part throughout russia it's not quite

1705
01:49:06,556 --> 01:49:10,436
as advanced as like if you went to vienna austria or something like that but it's not nearly as

1706
01:49:10,436 --> 01:49:15,976
backwards as if you went to albania so it it kind of works but they're also a nuclear-owned peer so

1707
01:49:15,976 --> 01:49:31,238
that that gives them a lot more latitude to effectuate actual changes that benefit the populace and now we right back to the power structure power games power plays And right now those little trade things like the trade deal with India and cutting off India

1708
01:49:31,438 --> 01:49:34,198
you can trade with us and we'll cut all the tariffs as long as you don't buy Russian oil.

1709
01:49:34,618 --> 01:49:35,618
It's all power plays.

1710
01:49:36,058 --> 01:49:40,598
They're just going right back to the levers they can pull because they can't go and just make Russia do stuff

1711
01:49:40,598 --> 01:49:42,238
because Russia will blow us up.

1712
01:49:42,378 --> 01:49:43,338
They have nukes.

1713
01:49:43,438 --> 01:49:45,818
They just go, hey, you need to stop invading Ukraine, or what?

1714
01:49:45,818 --> 01:49:50,858
just like your buddy in the cab you're gonna kick us out no well i guess we can be here then right

1715
01:49:50,858 --> 01:49:54,978
like hey russia you need to knock that off or what well we're gonna make it so you can't use

1716
01:49:54,978 --> 01:50:00,038
our money that's fine we'll go around it uh are you gonna invade no then go fuck yourself right

1717
01:50:00,038 --> 01:50:04,778
like they don't care because they have nukes so that's that's the sort of game that's getting

1718
01:50:04,778 --> 01:50:09,778
played and i think bitcoin changes it all you know yeah we'll get to that i want to read a little

1719
01:50:09,778 --> 01:50:14,118
bit more from the book of course ultimately understanding the process of making a decision

1720
01:50:14,118 --> 01:50:17,758
is arguably far less impactful than the results of the decisions that are made.

1721
01:50:18,378 --> 01:50:22,258
Nevertheless, the biggest problem with all the various and varied economic theories

1722
01:50:22,258 --> 01:50:24,878
is the niggling little problem of falsifiability.

1723
01:50:25,078 --> 01:50:29,418
For those unfamiliar, the idea revolves around the criterion for scientific inquiry

1724
01:50:29,418 --> 01:50:34,278
put forth by Sir Karl Popper that says a theory can only truly be scientific

1725
01:50:34,278 --> 01:50:36,118
if it is possible to prove false.

1726
01:50:36,298 --> 01:50:38,458
It would be a near impossibility to, for instance,

1727
01:50:39,058 --> 01:50:41,958
falsify the concept of subjective, expected utility.

1728
01:50:41,958 --> 01:50:50,938
It would be impossible because there would always be an observable instance of someone behaving according to that criteria in no objective way to disprove the cause of the behavior.

1729
01:50:51,458 --> 01:51:00,578
Put in a more disparaging light, it seems to me the entire field of economics more appropriately belongs in the realm of the metaphysical inquiry rather than any scientific one.

1730
01:51:00,698 --> 01:51:08,358
What is readily observable, however, is the ability for an actor to be able to reliably and repeatably modify the behavior of another actor by altering their incentives.

1731
01:51:08,438 --> 01:51:10,858
Give me one of your pigs or I will bash your head in.

1732
01:51:10,858 --> 01:51:14,258
is a brutish but simple example of incentive modification.

1733
01:51:14,978 --> 01:51:19,218
Of course, one could fritter about extolling the process of this economic actor,

1734
01:51:19,478 --> 01:51:24,598
determining the subjective, expected utility of not getting conked on the head versus giving up a pig.

1735
01:51:24,738 --> 01:51:28,598
The observable reality is there is a high likelihood of compliance with that demand,

1736
01:51:28,718 --> 01:51:30,978
which only increases with the credibility of the threat.

1737
01:51:31,118 --> 01:51:35,158
Moreover, there is also an observable reality that says a select few will resist,

1738
01:51:35,658 --> 01:51:38,358
perhaps to their serious detriment, and then again, perhaps not.

1739
01:51:38,358 --> 01:51:40,458
Indeed, it is quite possible they will prevail.

1740
01:51:40,458 --> 01:51:48,718
The broad point being much of the behavior explored by the economists and philosophers is likely closer to gambling than anything else.

1741
01:51:48,958 --> 01:51:55,358
As a gambler finds in a casino, the house has a number of incentives they can use to encourage or retard the behavior of their patrons.

1742
01:51:55,598 --> 01:51:59,318
Indeed, many of those incentive structures have been well documented and researched.

1743
01:51:59,558 --> 01:52:04,738
An infamous and related example even ended up as the subject of a Nevada Gaming Commission court case.

1744
01:52:04,858 --> 01:52:09,658
The core structure of the casino environment is one that is constructed entirely with gambler incentives in mind.

1745
01:52:10,198 --> 01:52:14,358
Everything from the decor to the food to the floor design and lighting and everything in between,

1746
01:52:14,498 --> 01:52:18,238
they are all crafted to incentivize gamblers to stay as long as possible,

1747
01:52:18,418 --> 01:52:21,738
even when they are broke or tired or indeed spending their next month's rent.

1748
01:52:22,118 --> 01:52:26,638
Keeping in mind, of course, that this environment is built within the confines of enormous structures

1749
01:52:26,638 --> 01:52:29,298
that clearly cost a lot of money to build and maintain,

1750
01:52:29,538 --> 01:52:33,078
meaning everyone who walks through the door is or should be immediately unnoticed

1751
01:52:33,078 --> 01:52:36,838
that the profit margins are clearly high enough to warrant these exorbitant expenses

1752
01:52:36,838 --> 01:52:41,078
and that the money in their pocket is the only possible source of those profits.

1753
01:52:41,278 --> 01:52:45,318
Within the discussion at hand, when we were talking about greed and the human structures of power and money,

1754
01:52:45,498 --> 01:52:49,978
there is a distinct line of scholarship devoted to the idea that the entire pseudo-capitalist structure

1755
01:52:49,978 --> 01:52:53,438
underpinning the global political economy is really nothing more than a giant casino.

1756
01:52:53,578 --> 01:52:59,618
Unlike a walk-in casino, however, the global political economy casino is not one we can simply leave.

1757
01:53:00,058 --> 01:53:01,398
Rather, the opposite is true.

1758
01:53:01,398 --> 01:53:06,818
And the sovereign, your sovereign, demands that we all both play and pay under penalty of death.

1759
01:53:07,458 --> 01:53:10,058
As Susan Strange writes in Casino Capitalism,

1760
01:53:10,498 --> 01:53:15,398
the Western financial system is rapidly coming to resemble nothing as much as a vast casino.

1761
01:53:15,638 --> 01:53:20,958
Everyday games are played in this casino that involve sums of money so large that they cannot be imagined.

1762
01:53:21,518 --> 01:53:24,318
At night, the games go on at the other side of the world.

1763
01:53:24,318 --> 01:53:28,258
In the towering office blocks that dominate all the great cities of the world,

1764
01:53:28,718 --> 01:53:32,378
rooms are full of chain-smoking young men all playing these games.

1765
01:53:32,578 --> 01:53:36,218
Their eyes are fixed on computer screens flickering with changing prices.

1766
01:53:36,218 --> 01:53:40,318
They play by intercontinental telephone or by tapping electronic machines.

1767
01:53:40,498 --> 01:53:45,598
They are just like the gamblers in casinos watching the clicking spin of a silver ball on a roulette wheel.

1768
01:53:45,878 --> 01:53:51,998
It is perhaps disingenuous to relegate the entirety of the global political economy to the ranks of a vast 24-hour casino,

1769
01:53:52,178 --> 01:53:59,378
but the underlying logic may certainly help explain some of the madness that is otherwise attributed to the nefarious secret cabals of lizard people.

1770
01:53:59,638 --> 01:54:04,098
The reason this underlying logic may prove helpful relates to a notion many find quite troubling,

1771
01:54:04,098 --> 01:54:09,918
the notion that much of what passes for success may in fact be more attributable to simply getting lucky.

1772
01:54:10,178 --> 01:54:15,578
Yeah, I thought that was really fascinating and a really great way to sum up sort of how we're all trying to operate within the game,

1773
01:54:15,578 --> 01:54:17,178
but there's so much we can't see.

1774
01:54:17,678 --> 01:54:24,518
It reminds me a lot of Fight Club in a way, you know, and everyone's trying to like figure out their way.

1775
01:54:24,758 --> 01:54:28,518
But there's just so much unknown and you can only play by the rules that you know.

1776
01:54:28,998 --> 01:54:30,198
You try to break the rules.

1777
01:54:30,198 --> 01:54:34,218
You try to figure out what you can get away with, what you can't get away with, how much power you have in the system.

1778
01:54:34,758 --> 01:54:44,698
And it's really interesting the people that just kind of intuit this and live it out and find themselves in these positions of power almost unbeknownst to themselves, how they got there.

1779
01:54:45,318 --> 01:54:54,358
Well, it's a fascinating world just in the regard that we've relegated the success of combat down to things like the success of the spoken word, right?

1780
01:54:54,358 --> 01:55:05,978
And one of the things I would point out to people, I used to work in the prison system briefly, and I've talked to some of the young people and I say, you have to understand, like, it's your ability to convey an idea that can grant you enormous power in this world.

1781
01:55:06,098 --> 01:55:15,298
And it's just the same thing as the shot caller at the top of your gang that you're rolling with, as it is for the shot caller at the, you know, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase, right?

1782
01:55:15,718 --> 01:55:18,098
That guy didn't walk in and go, look how hard I can work.

1783
01:55:18,598 --> 01:55:20,198
Look how many holes I can dig.

1784
01:55:20,298 --> 01:55:23,038
Look how many, you know, buttons I can push.

1785
01:55:23,038 --> 01:55:28,318
that guy comes in and goes hey i can put people together i can convince people to give us money

1786
01:55:28,318 --> 01:55:34,318
and i can convince other people to help us make that into more money that's it can you do that

1787
01:55:34,318 --> 01:55:38,378
effectively yeah well you go up the ranks can you not do it effectively then you're going to toil

1788
01:55:38,378 --> 01:55:43,358
right so it's your ability to orate anymore that kind of grants you access to a lot of power in a

1789
01:55:43,358 --> 01:55:49,258
fiat system which is a sort of unfortunate disconnect from on one level of like well

1790
01:55:49,258 --> 01:55:51,438
back in the day, you would have had to

1791
01:55:51,438 --> 01:55:53,078
survive at least a couple of tournaments and maybe

1792
01:55:53,078 --> 01:55:55,258
chop a guy's leg off in combat

1793
01:55:55,258 --> 01:55:57,398
before you could actually even get a chance to

1794
01:55:57,398 --> 01:55:59,458
sit at the table. Now you just gotta go chop a guy's

1795
01:55:59,458 --> 01:56:01,018
head off in the back office by

1796
01:56:01,018 --> 01:56:03,538
spreading a bad rumor about him or something.

1797
01:56:03,698 --> 01:56:04,658
I don't know. But

1798
01:56:04,658 --> 01:56:07,258
it kind of relegates

1799
01:56:07,258 --> 01:56:09,238
us to the world of slimes and

1800
01:56:09,238 --> 01:56:11,458
people that are really Machiavellian

1801
01:56:11,458 --> 01:56:13,438
in a lot of ways. And it rewards

1802
01:56:13,438 --> 01:56:15,538
that kind of behavior. But that's the problem

1803
01:56:15,538 --> 01:56:17,338
of an extractive system that is so

1804
01:56:17,338 --> 01:56:20,058
sort of concretely manifested now.

1805
01:56:20,138 --> 01:56:21,098
I mean, it's really, really,

1806
01:56:21,638 --> 01:56:23,898
in a way, it's super easy to navigate this system

1807
01:56:23,898 --> 01:56:25,718
and you can make bloody fortune from chaos.

1808
01:56:25,898 --> 01:56:28,538
But in other ways, it limits a lot of people

1809
01:56:28,538 --> 01:56:29,678
who just don't think that way

1810
01:56:29,678 --> 01:56:31,038
or don't want to operate that way.

1811
01:56:32,138 --> 01:56:35,158
And while the United States may have been predicated

1812
01:56:35,158 --> 01:56:36,618
on the idea of the human farmer,

1813
01:56:36,758 --> 01:56:38,418
that idea went out the window

1814
01:56:38,418 --> 01:56:40,578
like the year after the country was born, right?

1815
01:56:40,618 --> 01:56:43,038
They started recognizing the problems there already.

1816
01:56:43,338 --> 01:56:44,538
And people come in and start going,

1817
01:56:44,618 --> 01:56:45,898
hey, there's a bunch of cool shit here

1818
01:56:45,898 --> 01:56:46,838
I want to try and control.

1819
01:56:47,338 --> 01:56:52,578
because that's my job i'm a player in the game of competitive resource capture there are no rules

1820
01:56:52,578 --> 01:56:55,738
to this game so i'm going to try and capture these resources they can have a little piece

1821
01:56:55,738 --> 01:56:59,358
of paper that says there's this that and the other thing i don't give a shit about your piece of

1822
01:56:59,358 --> 01:57:02,838
paper i'm not playing according to your piece of paper i'm playing according to the games of

1823
01:57:02,838 --> 01:57:08,698
resource capture resource capture says if you can do it it's valid if you can't do it you lose

1824
01:57:08,698 --> 01:57:14,058
right but that's straight out of game of thrones it's either it's a game you play and either you

1825
01:57:14,058 --> 01:57:18,398
win or you die right and that's sort of the game of competitive resource capture it always has been

1826
01:57:18,398 --> 01:57:23,798
you you have to risk a little bit you have to be conniving you have to be cunning and if you can

1827
01:57:23,798 --> 01:57:29,098
figure out how to wield enough force or leverage or power then you get to control resources you get

1828
01:57:29,098 --> 01:57:32,618
to play the game and you get to become vulnerable to the people that are trying to take the resources

1829
01:57:32,618 --> 01:57:36,878
from you so round and round you go i don't know why people want to play this game it kind of

1830
01:57:36,878 --> 01:57:40,258
doesn't make sense to me i mean i kind of i get it on some level like well i don't have to deal

1831
01:57:40,258 --> 01:57:45,898
with the plebs all the time but on the other level it's like you said you go from here are my enemies

1832
01:57:45,898 --> 01:57:49,738
i'm fighting to get somewhere what by the time you get there now all the enemies are right behind you

1833
01:57:49,738 --> 01:57:54,758
you're oh shit now what now i gotta stay here ah this is a pain in the ass can i just retire no

1834
01:57:54,758 --> 01:57:59,738
that doesn't work there are a handful of people who get to ride off into the sunset but not many

1835
01:57:59,738 --> 01:58:06,138
you know and most end up so when it comes to the cabals of lizard people there there is some

1836
01:58:06,138 --> 01:58:10,698
semblance of an idea of like well there are people that have been playing this game for so long for so

1837
01:58:10,698 --> 01:58:14,218
many generations that they've got it refined to such a point that they go well we're not

1838
01:58:14,218 --> 01:58:20,438
really exposing ourselves to any of the dangers and the risks of resource capture we're still

1839
01:58:20,438 --> 01:58:24,598
funding things we still pull levers here and there we still kind of maneuver in the background

1840
01:58:24,598 --> 01:58:32,018
but to give them so much agency that they just control things i think overstates their ability

1841
01:58:32,018 --> 01:58:35,298
right because there's still people that take a dump they got to put their socks on every day

1842
01:58:35,298 --> 01:58:40,498
you know they get a head cold and they make dumb decisions and and they have layers of decisions

1843
01:58:40,498 --> 01:58:45,578
underneath them that prevent them from catastrophically screwing up but they're still

1844
01:58:45,578 --> 01:58:51,218
influencing the game but no more than elon musk is right or no more than the public figures that

1845
01:58:51,218 --> 01:58:55,858
you know about to say that somehow elon musk has got puffs strings behind him and that's some

1846
01:58:55,858 --> 01:59:00,998
shadowy person with lizard blood that you know drinks baby juice or i don't know what the hell

1847
01:59:00,998 --> 01:59:05,998
these people are accused of anymore, I think provides too much, you know,

1848
01:59:05,998 --> 01:59:09,558
weight to their ability, which I'm kind of being repetitive now, but yeah.

1849
01:59:10,378 --> 01:59:13,538
No, that's great. And all right. So let's, uh,

1850
01:59:13,538 --> 01:59:17,298
there is a really interesting anecdote here about a sort of particular court

1851
01:59:17,298 --> 01:59:19,218
case versus the long Island railroad system.

1852
01:59:19,218 --> 01:59:20,378
And that's kind of my neck of the wood,

1853
01:59:20,378 --> 01:59:25,138
but it really kind of gets into sort of causality versus causation and what

1854
01:59:25,138 --> 01:59:28,138
really like, you know, so, and so like that, it's a wild case, you know,

1855
01:59:28,138 --> 01:59:30,778
a couple of people are getting on a train, second person, like,

1856
01:59:30,778 --> 01:59:33,218
lunges to get on the train. He's getting pushed from a guard

1857
01:59:33,218 --> 01:59:35,358
behind who's trying to help him on. He's getting pulled

1858
01:59:35,358 --> 01:59:37,118
on. He drops his package.

1859
01:59:37,458 --> 01:59:38,998
Fireworks go off. They were in the package.

1860
01:59:39,738 --> 01:59:40,538
People get hurt.

1861
01:59:41,038 --> 01:59:43,198
What really caused this? Was it the person who pushed him

1862
01:59:43,198 --> 01:59:44,838
on the train? The person who pulled him on the train?

1863
01:59:45,258 --> 01:59:46,958
Was it his efforts to get on the train?

1864
01:59:47,198 --> 01:59:48,718
Was it that he was late to the train?

1865
01:59:50,198 --> 01:59:50,858
And really,

1866
01:59:51,058 --> 01:59:52,438
that was kind of interesting.

1867
01:59:53,038 --> 01:59:54,858
But I want to get into the title of the book,

1868
01:59:54,858 --> 01:59:56,898
The Great Alignment and Bitcoin

1869
01:59:56,898 --> 01:59:58,838
here. So, what

1870
01:59:58,838 --> 02:00:02,178
What problem do you see Bitcoin trying to solve?

1871
02:00:02,598 --> 02:00:07,698
Well, you know, oddly enough, I think Bitcoin is neutral in what it is trying to do, right?

1872
02:00:07,778 --> 02:00:10,758
Like, I don't provide any agency to Bitcoin.

1873
02:00:10,918 --> 02:00:12,498
I just recognize what it has become.

1874
02:00:12,798 --> 02:00:18,558
And so Michael Saylor used to talk a lot about, like, Bitcoin is property and it alleviates the problems of calling it money.

1875
02:00:18,718 --> 02:00:19,298
I think.

1876
02:00:19,438 --> 02:00:19,918
I don't know.

1877
02:00:19,998 --> 02:00:20,738
I've never really asked.

1878
02:00:20,898 --> 02:00:24,178
I haven't sat down for a coffee with Michael Saylor to go, hey, what do you think about it?

1879
02:00:24,178 --> 02:00:25,498
Was this what you meant by that?

1880
02:00:25,498 --> 02:00:28,238
But I think he's speaking from a financial standpoint.

1881
02:00:28,238 --> 02:00:34,578
I think from a purely like we exist in a fiat system, it's a recognition of the reality of the situation that all of us find ourselves in.

1882
02:00:34,698 --> 02:00:37,698
We don't live in a system where you can just opt out, right?

1883
02:00:37,738 --> 02:00:39,598
Like that's not a possibility.

1884
02:00:39,778 --> 02:00:47,758
Maybe on some very limited scale, but even the people that quote unquote opt out are not truly opting out because they go and I'm going to go build a bunker in the woods in Montana.

1885
02:00:48,418 --> 02:00:50,158
Okay, well, what happens when your tractor breaks?

1886
02:00:50,658 --> 02:00:52,298
I'm just going to go on Amazon real quick and get some.

1887
02:00:53,278 --> 02:00:55,198
You didn't really opt out of the system, did you?

1888
02:00:55,838 --> 02:00:57,558
I mean, are you building your own parts?

1889
02:00:57,558 --> 02:01:00,538
And there is a guy out there that's got open source parts to how to build a

1890
02:01:00,538 --> 02:01:01,618
tractor and all this crazy shit.

1891
02:01:01,778 --> 02:01:04,698
But even that guy, you go, well, where'd you get the steel?

1892
02:01:05,378 --> 02:01:06,178
Oh, scrap steel.

1893
02:01:06,478 --> 02:01:08,178
So that just magically appeared.

1894
02:01:08,358 --> 02:01:11,018
Was there a scrap steel tree that you harvested that from,

1895
02:01:11,098 --> 02:01:13,258
or was that something that came from the Fiat system?

1896
02:01:13,858 --> 02:01:14,458
Well, yeah, of course.

1897
02:01:14,518 --> 02:01:17,078
But I mean, you have to go, well, of course, but you have to.

1898
02:01:17,258 --> 02:01:20,218
And that, so those are all these qualifiers about like I've opted out,

1899
02:01:20,298 --> 02:01:21,498
but I'm really part of the system.

1900
02:01:21,558 --> 02:01:23,358
I just, I don't have to do the parts.

1901
02:01:23,398 --> 02:01:24,098
I don't like as well.

1902
02:01:24,138 --> 02:01:25,858
That's really sort of saying,

1903
02:01:25,858 --> 02:01:27,978
And they kind of miss out on all the kind of cool things.

1904
02:01:27,978 --> 02:01:32,158
Like it's kind of cool to be able to just go to a store and walk around and go, Hey,

1905
02:01:32,158 --> 02:01:34,798
that's, that's a pretty fresh looking piece of fruit.

1906
02:01:35,098 --> 02:01:35,418
Neat.

1907
02:01:35,598 --> 02:01:36,618
I'm just gonna eat that, you know?

1908
02:01:36,718 --> 02:01:39,978
But there was a guy that I'm going to deviate just a little bit here, but there was a guy

1909
02:01:39,978 --> 02:01:41,658
that went to live with the Hasda for a few months.

1910
02:01:41,698 --> 02:01:42,638
He was talking to Joe Rogan.

1911
02:01:43,038 --> 02:01:44,278
So these guys are like animals, dude.

1912
02:01:44,318 --> 02:01:46,738
Like these guys can just like run all day.

1913
02:01:47,198 --> 02:01:49,018
Like I'm out there just dying, you know?

1914
02:01:49,018 --> 02:01:51,358
And like, and they go, Hey, we're going to go hunt.

1915
02:01:51,678 --> 02:01:54,138
And he said, well, what do you, what do I do?

1916
02:01:54,138 --> 02:01:57,758
what do you mean you don't know how to hunt are you going to skin that i don't know how to skin a

1917
02:01:57,758 --> 02:02:02,018
badger whatever it is you just killed and so the translators go no you don't understand where he

1918
02:02:02,018 --> 02:02:06,958
comes from there's people that kill his meat for him and cut it off like what this guy's a grown

1919
02:02:06,958 --> 02:02:12,618
man like how does that happen you know so i apologize for the deviation there we were talking

1920
02:02:12,618 --> 02:02:18,798
about the great realignment what problem is it's all thank you thank you for getting me back on

1921
02:02:18,798 --> 02:02:24,458
track. What I look at when he says it's property, Michael Saylor, that is, rather than money,

1922
02:02:24,598 --> 02:02:29,198
I look at the problem from a different point of view. I say, well, money, if my thesis proves

1923
02:02:29,198 --> 02:02:36,278
correct, if it is predatory monetarism that started the money to begin with, that's the

1924
02:02:36,278 --> 02:02:41,838
origin story of money, then why would we want, quote unquote, sound money? Well, that implies

1925
02:02:41,838 --> 02:02:46,218
that you want to continue being a farm animal. You just want your taxes to be fair so you can't

1926
02:02:46,218 --> 02:02:51,498
get diluted well that's an outcome that's probably not that bad in the grand scheme of things

1927
02:02:51,498 --> 02:02:56,718
when i hear the ancaps the anarcho-capitalists or whatever say i was smashed the state we're just

1928
02:02:56,718 --> 02:03:02,138
going to do voluntary contracts i go good luck with that dude like have you never played a game

1929
02:03:02,138 --> 02:03:06,898
of softball on the weekend with a bunch of competitive bros that are drinking beer because

1930
02:03:06,898 --> 02:03:11,918
that's a kind of resource capture game you know it's all a fiction right you got to run around

1931
02:03:11,918 --> 02:03:16,898
home pace, but those guys will duke it out. Like I've seen guys getting fistfights at company

1932
02:03:16,898 --> 02:03:19,838
softball games because like they're breaking the rules and doing all that kind of stuff.

1933
02:03:20,098 --> 02:03:25,238
So you think you're going to somehow magically create a society that everyone's just going to

1934
02:03:25,238 --> 02:03:29,278
agree on your unspoken honor code system and you're not going to end up in a power hierarchy

1935
02:03:29,278 --> 02:03:35,218
somehow. It's impossible, right? So those things devolve. When states collapse, it's ugly. And,

1936
02:03:35,218 --> 02:03:39,658
you know, to any anarcho-capitalists that are going to poo-poo on my idea, I go, well,

1937
02:03:39,658 --> 02:03:42,038
Somalia is wide open dude you can just move

1938
02:03:42,038 --> 02:03:43,798
there anytime you want and go set up your

1939
02:03:43,798 --> 02:03:45,398
anarcho-capitalist utopia

1940
02:03:45,398 --> 02:03:47,698
see how far it goes he goes no no no no well

1941
02:03:47,698 --> 02:03:49,878
we're only going to set it up when there's a state there

1942
02:03:49,878 --> 02:03:51,978
to make sure that everything's peaceful so we can come

1943
02:03:51,978 --> 02:03:53,858
in and do our thing well then

1944
02:03:53,858 --> 02:03:55,858
you're not you're just LARPing

1945
02:03:55,858 --> 02:03:57,938
at that point right okay we're going

1946
02:03:57,938 --> 02:04:00,018
to go amass an arm well as soon as we convince

1947
02:04:00,018 --> 02:04:02,038
enough people that we want to move to Somalia

1948
02:04:02,038 --> 02:04:04,238
to create the libertarian anarcho-capitalist

1949
02:04:04,238 --> 02:04:06,158
utopia we're all going to move to Somalia

1950
02:04:06,158 --> 02:04:07,918
and invade good luck with that dude

1951
02:04:07,918 --> 02:04:10,498
Like you got all kinds of problems on the road down there.

1952
02:04:10,578 --> 02:04:13,318
So, so I think there is some role for the state.

1953
02:04:13,318 --> 02:04:14,958
That was what I'm kind of ultimately getting to.

1954
02:04:15,138 --> 02:04:18,398
And the idea that we get to keep all the benefits of the fiat system.

1955
02:04:18,498 --> 02:04:19,898
We get to keep all the trappings.

1956
02:04:20,078 --> 02:04:26,618
We get to keep all the comforts, the creature comforts, the, the thing that makes the has to laugh at us and go, wait, there's people that cut your meat for you.

1957
02:04:26,678 --> 02:04:27,538
Like, what are you talking about?

1958
02:04:27,558 --> 02:04:30,578
That's crazy for us to continue enjoying those things.

1959
02:04:30,578 --> 02:04:31,698
They come from a fiat system.

1960
02:04:31,698 --> 02:04:36,098
They didn't come from just automagically, you know, they didn't just get created out of thin air.

1961
02:04:36,098 --> 02:04:45,718
They were created under state control, sovereign authority, and people competing for power and control of resources, and then managing those resources and trying to extract from them.

1962
02:04:45,798 --> 02:04:49,418
That's how we ended up with iPhones and this thing that we're talking on right now and all that kind of stuff.

1963
02:04:49,478 --> 02:04:56,918
But I think if you treat Bitcoin as property, it's a very different conversation because that is the cornerstone of the resource capture game.

1964
02:04:56,998 --> 02:04:58,498
You are trying to capture resources.

1965
02:04:58,898 --> 02:04:59,238
That's...

1966
02:04:59,400 --> 02:05:06,860
property, that's land, oil, trees, people. Those are things that you want in the resource capture

1967
02:05:06,860 --> 02:05:11,360
game. If there is a resource that you can't capture, that changes how you play that game.

1968
02:05:11,540 --> 02:05:19,320
And I say that because it gives an opportunity now for you as an individual to take a semblance

1969
02:05:19,320 --> 02:05:24,460
of sovereignty unto yourself, meaning that you have a property that can't be debased,

1970
02:05:24,460 --> 02:05:37,220
It can't be taken. It can't be stolen. And it allows you to integrate into the sovereign system, benefit from the sovereign luxuries that we all get from this and the sovereign conveniences and the sovereign comforts.

1971
02:05:37,220 --> 02:05:48,100
Well, Bitcoin as property, I think, adds a neat layer because it allows people, whether it's a company, a person, all the way up to the sovereign.

1972
02:05:48,100 --> 02:05:55,640
It gives them a vehicle by which they can survive in a system that is dependent upon continual debasement.

1973
02:05:56,540 --> 02:05:58,800
The system doesn't survive.

1974
02:05:59,240 --> 02:06:02,360
We don't get all this neat stuff without continual debasement.

1975
02:06:02,360 --> 02:06:09,200
And there is some academic literature that says, hey, there is a preferred rate of debasement of 2% or 3%.

1976
02:06:09,200 --> 02:06:18,020
And people that would otherwise be considered like sound money people have been accused of saying things like, well, 2% debasement is a pretty good idea, 3% debasement.

1977
02:06:18,140 --> 02:06:21,120
They kind of dicker on how much debasement is good or not good.

1978
02:06:22,480 --> 02:06:27,260
The chart lists that branched off into the MMT world say, well, like unlimited debasement is fine.

1979
02:06:27,280 --> 02:06:29,540
But I think they're kind of missing the point as well.

1980
02:06:29,540 --> 02:06:41,840
So what Bitcoin does is it kind of gives you an opportunity to sort of allow the fiat system to kind of gradually reorient itself, if that makes sense.

1981
02:06:41,840 --> 02:06:56,220
So, yeah, I mean, I really think that it really changes the way you think about Bitcoin. I'm really trying to digest sort of this idea of money sort of coming from top down and the problem it's solved.

1982
02:06:56,220 --> 02:07:00,320
and just that the way this game is structured

1983
02:07:00,320 --> 02:07:02,840
and how we operate within the game

1984
02:07:02,840 --> 02:07:04,520
and the confines,

1985
02:07:04,760 --> 02:07:07,680
not the confines in terms of power or authority,

1986
02:07:07,840 --> 02:07:08,940
but in sort of knowledge

1987
02:07:08,940 --> 02:07:11,940
and understanding where we are in the game

1988
02:07:11,940 --> 02:07:12,880
and who knows what

1989
02:07:12,880 --> 02:07:15,840
and what is actual sort of what we don't know.

1990
02:07:16,560 --> 02:07:18,920
That's the struggle in the game in a lot of ways.

1991
02:07:18,920 --> 02:07:21,860
It's sort of the unpredictability of our actions

1992
02:07:21,860 --> 02:07:26,440
than mixing with unknown happenstance around us.

1993
02:07:26,900 --> 02:07:26,960
Yeah.

1994
02:07:27,160 --> 02:07:31,140
So to wrap it up, though, I do also want to touch on micro seed.

1995
02:07:33,080 --> 02:07:34,900
Yeah, we can chat about it a little bit.

1996
02:07:35,720 --> 02:07:38,500
Well, thinking about everything we've talked about,

1997
02:07:38,620 --> 02:07:42,120
you've decided to channel your energy into securing the seed phrase.

1998
02:07:42,620 --> 02:07:47,620
So sort of where did you come up with the idea of tackling that?

1999
02:07:47,820 --> 02:07:49,580
Well, that was sort of a selfish invention.

2000
02:07:49,580 --> 02:07:58,200
For those who aren't aware, MicroSeed lets you record all 24 hours of your Bitcoin seed phrase on a single one inch titanium or stainless steel washer.

2001
02:07:58,400 --> 02:08:05,640
At the time when I was making it, it was right after I had used a competitor's product and I kind of banged my fingers and it took me a long time to do it.

2002
02:08:05,660 --> 02:08:08,740
And I screwed up the text a couple of times and I was really frustrated with the whole process.

2003
02:08:09,060 --> 02:08:12,500
And it was also a thing that kind of sat on my coffee table for like three weeks.

2004
02:08:12,540 --> 02:08:13,900
And I was just like, oh, I should really do that.

2005
02:08:14,040 --> 02:08:15,340
I just wouldn't do it. Right.

2006
02:08:15,340 --> 02:08:20,780
So when I finally banged the thing out, I was like sitting on a concrete floor in the garage because it didn't work on my kitchen table.

2007
02:08:21,000 --> 02:08:23,380
I wasn't able to make deep enough impressions on the thing.

2008
02:08:23,800 --> 02:08:26,840
So my girlfriend's coming out looking at me like, you look like an orangutan, dude.

2009
02:08:26,840 --> 02:08:27,600
Like, what are you doing?

2010
02:08:27,700 --> 02:08:29,380
I've got to get the seat face and the titanium.

2011
02:08:30,120 --> 02:08:33,860
So it was a little – and like I said, I bashed my finger.

2012
02:08:34,040 --> 02:08:36,460
I hadn't hit myself with a hammer in 20 years, right?

2013
02:08:36,460 --> 02:08:37,920
So it was a little frustrating there.

2014
02:08:38,000 --> 02:08:43,240
I mean it wasn't like I didn't get injured or anything, but it was just like one of those like kind of like when you bite your cheek kind of thing.

2015
02:08:43,240 --> 02:08:48,340
So, but when I was all done with the whole thing, I looked at it and well, what if I

2016
02:08:48,340 --> 02:08:49,340
wanted to take this on a plane?

2017
02:08:49,340 --> 02:08:51,340
Like, what if I had to like flee the country?

2018
02:08:51,340 --> 02:08:52,740
What am I going to do with this damn thing?

2019
02:08:52,740 --> 02:08:55,040
Like, am I going to put that in my checked luggage?

2020
02:08:55,040 --> 02:08:56,240
Like, that's a terrible idea.

2021
02:08:56,240 --> 02:08:59,540
Like some TSA guy snooping through there goes, oh, I know what that is.

2022
02:08:59,540 --> 02:09:00,540
Sweet.

2023
02:09:00,540 --> 02:09:22,860
Yoink Mine now you know so I end up in you know I flee to Paraguay or whatever and I go where my where my seed phrase I don know But there a big piece of tape around your bag that says inspected by TSA Like shit Am I going to put it in my pocket I don think that going to pass security Maybe I get through But you know they brought me through the little millimeter wave thing I go hey what that in your pocket I go you don need to see that Yeah I think I do sir

2024
02:09:22,860 --> 02:09:28,840
and you know they might let you pass you know and who knows maybe they don't notice maybe you put it

2025
02:09:28,840 --> 02:09:33,240
in your little carry-on bag and the tsa guys just sleep that day and it just lets it go by i mean

2026
02:09:33,240 --> 02:09:37,420
they let guns go by all the time so why not your seed phrase but i don't want to roll the dice on

2027
02:09:37,420 --> 02:09:45,020
it right and i always sort of was not fond of the stack of diy washers kind of thing where you just

2028
02:09:45,020 --> 02:09:49,560
oh i'm gonna go to home depot i'm gonna get a screw and a bolt or a bolt and a wing nut and

2029
02:09:49,560 --> 02:09:50,880
And I'm going to buy a bunch of washers.

2030
02:09:50,940 --> 02:09:52,900
I'm going to bang this thing out like a chimp on the floor.

2031
02:09:53,060 --> 02:09:57,260
Partly because you just end up with a roll of quarters in your pocket everywhere you go.

2032
02:09:57,380 --> 02:09:59,180
And I go, well, good luck taking that on a plane too.

2033
02:09:59,320 --> 02:10:04,060
And I mean, yeah, you can divide up your seat phrase into like 40 different, you can spread it around through your bag.

2034
02:10:04,060 --> 02:10:08,960
Or maybe no one's going to notice a big bag of washers in the bottom of your bag or any number of ideas, right?

2035
02:10:09,040 --> 02:10:10,120
And you could probably get it through.

2036
02:10:10,340 --> 02:10:14,560
But again, it was one of those things like, well, what if the security is really tight at the border?

2037
02:10:14,680 --> 02:10:17,560
Like, let's say there really was some sort of financial collapse.

2038
02:10:17,560 --> 02:10:22,280
and hey, heaven forbid, the banks are all shut and you can't get anything going.

2039
02:10:22,500 --> 02:10:23,660
You go, that's a problem.

2040
02:10:23,920 --> 02:10:26,820
Well, I want to leave the country and I want to walk to Paraguay.

2041
02:10:27,000 --> 02:10:30,840
So I'd kind of like to be able to go to the airport and I got a passport and I got enough

2042
02:10:30,840 --> 02:10:34,660
on this card that they'll still let me buy a ticket because I have a passport already,

2043
02:10:34,660 --> 02:10:36,060
even though the government shut down.

2044
02:10:36,120 --> 02:10:37,100
So you can't get a new one.

2045
02:10:37,160 --> 02:10:39,020
So if you're thinking about leaving, now you're kind of stuck.

2046
02:10:39,600 --> 02:10:43,400
But me, I was super smart and I had my passport ready and I just packed a little bag and said,

2047
02:10:43,440 --> 02:10:44,420
oh, it's just a business trip.

2048
02:10:44,800 --> 02:10:47,400
I'll be right back as soon as you guys figure out this mess that you created.

2049
02:10:47,400 --> 02:10:51,060
sorry but what if they're going well we just want to make sure you're not taking any crypto out of

2050
02:10:51,060 --> 02:10:55,800
the country you know just in case i mean you're coming back anyway right mr white so no worries

2051
02:10:55,800 --> 02:11:00,580
there but uh just in case you're not got like a trezor or anything on you because we're gonna

2052
02:11:00,580 --> 02:11:09,100
check real hard not me what about like a stack of washers no i would never do that so if i got a

2053
02:11:09,100 --> 02:11:14,880
my seed phrase stamped into a nylon washer which we also offer and i sew that into my clothes

2054
02:11:14,880 --> 02:11:20,480
or I swallow it or I, you know, bolt it to the handle of my bag,

2055
02:11:20,480 --> 02:11:24,160
they go, can you find that little one-inch nylon washer?

2056
02:11:24,740 --> 02:11:24,960
No.

2057
02:11:25,840 --> 02:11:26,480
Zero chance.

2058
02:11:26,620 --> 02:11:30,720
I mean, potentially if they, like, decided we're going to cut every thread

2059
02:11:30,720 --> 02:11:35,200
of everything that you're carrying down to its fundamentals,

2060
02:11:36,040 --> 02:11:38,580
maybe they'll find the washer, and then maybe they'll decipher

2061
02:11:38,580 --> 02:11:40,740
that there's words on it, and then maybe they'll decipher

2062
02:11:40,740 --> 02:11:41,960
that that's a Bitcoin seed phrase.

2063
02:11:42,260 --> 02:11:43,580
I think that's pretty unlikely.

2064
02:11:43,580 --> 02:11:48,680
not saying it's impossible but you know but the thing is if you literally went wow they're cutting

2065
02:11:48,680 --> 02:11:53,240
people's clothes off and they're cutting them down to the threads i should probably swallow this

2066
02:11:53,240 --> 02:11:58,080
washer and now i'm going to get on the plane can they find it then well if they're willing to follow

2067
02:11:58,080 --> 02:12:02,980
you around for three days with a bucket maybe otherwise no that's that's going to pass body

2068
02:12:02,980 --> 02:12:09,060
scan like they're going to get you in a body scanner look and they're going to go nope i don't

2069
02:12:09,060 --> 02:12:13,740
see any metal. I don't see anything that very clearly stands out as something that shouldn't

2070
02:12:13,740 --> 02:12:17,540
be in a human body right now. There's like this little blurry thing, but that could be a turd for

2071
02:12:17,540 --> 02:12:21,020
all I know. I've used a body scanner. I know what they look like. I know what the scans look like,

2072
02:12:21,040 --> 02:12:25,360
and I know the limitations, and I know that that thing is not going to show up. I mean,

2073
02:12:25,440 --> 02:12:29,860
it's possible, but even then, you go, what's that? Oh my God, it was so stupid. I was at a bar the

2074
02:12:29,860 --> 02:12:34,800
other night. My buddies bet me I wouldn't swallow the washer. So I said, hell yeah, I'll swallow the

2075
02:12:34,800 --> 02:12:38,240
washer. The guy said, give me a hundred bucks if I swallowed this washer. So I swallowed it. It's

2076
02:12:38,240 --> 02:12:45,860
rusty what you swallowed a rusty washer yeah oh moron okay well don't that's pretty dumb you know

2077
02:12:45,860 --> 02:12:50,480
see you later tom have a nice flight whatever so the point being is i wanted a way to like

2078
02:12:50,480 --> 02:12:55,720
easily conceal this thing easily carry it easily take it around with me and with the micro seed you

2079
02:12:55,720 --> 02:12:59,880
can do things like you can cover up the one washer you stamped with like plastidiv which is like a

2080
02:12:59,880 --> 02:13:04,400
tool handle coating you can put it in a wax stamp you can i mean you can hide that washer anywhere

2081
02:13:04,400 --> 02:13:06,560
where a washer can go.

2082
02:13:06,560 --> 02:13:17,340
And I think that probably a better way to like hide very valuable information is like make it super small and very very discreet And that was the impetus and birth of Microseed was very selfish innovation

2083
02:13:17,580 --> 02:13:23,500
Yeah, I love it. What I really like about it, the transportability is great, but the really discreet nature of it.

2084
02:13:23,500 --> 02:13:28,740
So there's a lot of discussion about, you know, should you put in metal? Should you leave it on paper?

2085
02:13:28,820 --> 02:13:33,600
A lot of people say no to paper. Paper almost becomes like kind of like counterintuitive.

2086
02:13:33,600 --> 02:13:38,720
And so it's kind of good in a way like, oh, you would never leave your phrase right in this piece of paper right in the top drawer of your desk.

2087
02:13:38,720 --> 02:13:44,120
Right. Right. Where this kind of is a happy marriage is because it's one washer.

2088
02:13:44,900 --> 02:13:47,760
The washer could be in your refrigerator. Right.

2089
02:13:48,560 --> 02:13:55,140
You know, it could be the washer holding your, you know, the the handle to your bag on your suitcase.

2090
02:13:55,140 --> 02:14:03,440
So it's it could be in places so conspicuous, so right in front of everybody that it's it's hidden in plain sight.

2091
02:14:03,440 --> 02:14:08,680
in a lot of ways yeah so that's what i really love about it well thank you um and you're not buying

2092
02:14:08,680 --> 02:14:14,080
just to clarify you're not getting a washer uh you're getting the thing that makes the the gives

2093
02:14:14,080 --> 02:14:19,980
you the ability to stamp the washer correct uh and endless amounts of washers yes uh so what i like

2094
02:14:19,980 --> 02:14:23,760
about that too is you can have in all those discrete places because again it's back to like

2095
02:14:23,760 --> 02:14:31,400
well if you have your seed phrase on a very like uh obvious piece of metal in your uh safe deposit

2096
02:14:31,400 --> 02:14:39,300
box that is a form of a an attack vector oh yeah it'd be a lot more discreet if you had a box in

2097
02:14:39,300 --> 02:14:44,980
your safe deposit box with a bunch of feathers in it and the box had a washer in it holding it

2098
02:14:44,980 --> 02:14:49,120
together and so why are there a bunch of feathers here and no one would have any you know further

2099
02:14:49,120 --> 02:14:53,840
well i guess he likes feathers and they're really important his family yeah this guy's got nothing

2100
02:14:53,840 --> 02:15:00,760
yeah you know he's a bummer yeah so it i love the discreet nature of it and sort of how much

2101
02:15:00,760 --> 02:15:02,140
you can just hide it in plate sight.

2102
02:15:02,380 --> 02:15:04,960
So I really appreciate your contributions to the scene.

2103
02:15:05,800 --> 02:15:08,280
And, you know, it comes down to,

2104
02:15:08,740 --> 02:15:10,040
now a lot of people are calling it,

2105
02:15:10,100 --> 02:15:12,780
it's usually called buy spot Bitcoin, but real Bitcoin.

2106
02:15:13,220 --> 02:15:14,540
I think the reason we say spot Bitcoin

2107
02:15:14,540 --> 02:15:15,580
is we don't want to scare people off

2108
02:15:15,580 --> 02:15:16,860
and it's real and fake, whatever,

2109
02:15:17,020 --> 02:15:18,760
but just go get you some real Bitcoin.

2110
02:15:19,300 --> 02:15:23,620
Put it in self-custody and secure your seed phrase

2111
02:15:23,620 --> 02:15:25,080
for generations.

2112
02:15:25,360 --> 02:15:25,720
Absolutely.

2113
02:15:26,100 --> 02:15:27,800
So however you can do that.

2114
02:15:27,800 --> 02:15:30,120
I'm a huge proponent of the self-custody model.

2115
02:15:30,760 --> 02:15:36,420
precisely because of my understanding of Bitcoin as property, right? If you can control some sum of

2116
02:15:36,420 --> 02:15:40,400
money, I think that makes you a powerful person or can make you a powerful person. But that's not

2117
02:15:40,400 --> 02:15:46,500
the ultimate sign of sovereignty, right? Like, the King of England didn't come to the new world and

2118
02:15:46,500 --> 02:15:51,060
say, hey, capture all the wampum you can. He said, capture the land, capture the valuable thing,

2119
02:15:51,140 --> 02:15:55,520
the property. And if you have valuable property that people can't access, I think that's a huge

2120
02:15:55,520 --> 02:16:00,820
thing. My corollary to that and my sort of secondary purpose, and I would actually argue

2121
02:16:00,820 --> 02:16:05,260
it's my primary purpose. I'm pleased as punch that people like the micro seed and that it's

2122
02:16:05,260 --> 02:16:10,300
becoming a popular device. And I'm excited as all get out to be part of the journey of people

2123
02:16:10,300 --> 02:16:14,400
actually taking self-custody of their Bitcoin. But the far more important thing to me is that

2124
02:16:14,400 --> 02:16:20,460
people run nodes. And I can't stress this enough. If you are a person like me that looks at Bitcoin

2125
02:16:20,460 --> 02:16:24,500
and goes, hey, this is a novel invention. This is the first thing that's ever been invented by

2126
02:16:24,500 --> 02:16:29,820
mankind in 12,000 years that is valuable and can't be stolen. Like that, that fundamentally

2127
02:16:29,820 --> 02:16:33,940
changes the game of that. We've all been collectively playing or not being part of being

2128
02:16:33,940 --> 02:16:38,100
party two for the last 12,000 years. It's a game of competitive resource capture, powerful people

2129
02:16:38,100 --> 02:16:42,640
come and try and control resources. Other powerful people try and take those resources back and round

2130
02:16:42,640 --> 02:16:48,080
and round they go. We are resources. So all we are good for to them is what can they extract from us?

2131
02:16:48,140 --> 02:16:52,120
If we suddenly become people that control properties they want, that changes us fundamentally.

2132
02:16:52,120 --> 02:16:56,600
that puts us, it doesn't necessarily elevate us to the same level as like a guy who controls all

2133
02:16:56,600 --> 02:17:00,560
the low earth constellation satellites, but it certainly puts us in a position of like, well,

2134
02:17:01,060 --> 02:17:07,480
he has something we want and he controls property. That's a, that's a big deal. We become that human

2135
02:17:07,480 --> 02:17:12,240
farmer model that the United States is predicated on. We're just a small holder. We have a little

2136
02:17:12,240 --> 02:17:30,300
chunk of property but you can really dominate us anymore because it ours You can take it So that a big deal And in order for that vision to be realized the network has to remain decentralized and secure This is a Jeff Booth point He hammers it home all the time Provided Bitcoin remains decentralized and secure Bitcoin is going to transform the world

2137
02:17:30,420 --> 02:17:39,280
I agree with Jeff Booth 1,000%. As long as Bitcoin remains decentralized and secure, it's going to transform humanity for the better, whether you hold some or not.

2138
02:17:39,280 --> 02:17:42,380
I think it's going to radically improve the world in a very short amount of time.

2139
02:17:43,040 --> 02:17:47,560
But it's incumbent upon us to understand that to make sure that it stays decentralized and secure.

2140
02:17:48,060 --> 02:17:53,120
Easiest, most powerful way to do that is to fire up a node and provide that nudge effect,

2141
02:17:53,120 --> 02:17:57,140
provide that thing that is a bulwark against software changes you don't agree with.

2142
02:17:57,260 --> 02:18:01,420
Provide that bulwark against being co-opted by powerful financial interests.

2143
02:18:01,580 --> 02:18:05,600
And BlackRock says in their perspectives, hey, we get to say what Bitcoin is.

2144
02:18:05,960 --> 02:18:08,240
I go, not if there's 24 million nodes you don't.

2145
02:18:08,240 --> 02:18:13,680
You might be able to wield that influence with 3,000 nodes, and most of them are controlled by corporations and exchanges.

2146
02:18:13,680 --> 02:18:17,920
And most of the people that have Bitcoin, it's just another thing on their balance sheet.

2147
02:18:18,040 --> 02:18:20,880
They go, gosh, I hope this goes up so I can buy a Lamborghini next year.

2148
02:18:21,300 --> 02:18:26,800
But if there are 24 million plebs that go, nope, we decide what Bitcoin is, not you.

2149
02:18:27,140 --> 02:18:30,380
You can route your Kraken and your Coinbase nodes or whatever you want.

2150
02:18:30,720 --> 02:18:33,440
We're going to tell you what Bitcoin is because we are the protocol.

2151
02:18:33,620 --> 02:18:35,780
We are the people that decentralized this.

2152
02:18:35,900 --> 02:18:36,660
We created it.

2153
02:18:36,900 --> 02:18:37,760
We gave it value.

2154
02:18:37,760 --> 02:18:41,240
and now we are going to make sure that you don't co-opt it.

2155
02:18:41,640 --> 02:18:43,480
That's what the power of node running does.

2156
02:18:43,820 --> 02:18:46,600
Not one, but collectively in the millions,

2157
02:18:46,840 --> 02:18:48,720
in the tens of millions, in the hundreds of millions.

2158
02:18:49,280 --> 02:18:52,260
If every person that has financial exposure to Bitcoin ran a node,

2159
02:18:52,500 --> 02:18:53,800
and especially in the global south

2160
02:18:53,800 --> 02:18:56,960
where we got some geographic diversity of the node location,

2161
02:18:57,640 --> 02:18:59,500
Bitcoin quite literally is unstoppable.

2162
02:18:59,860 --> 02:19:00,940
And once it's unstoppable,

2163
02:19:01,220 --> 02:19:03,100
it fundamentally transforms the world for the better.

2164
02:19:03,240 --> 02:19:05,980
So if you're hearing this, please, for the love of God,

2165
02:19:05,980 --> 02:19:08,720
and you like Bitcoin, please, please, please consider running a node.

2166
02:19:08,820 --> 02:19:12,340
It's not as hard as you think, and it absolutely helps defend the network.

2167
02:19:12,600 --> 02:19:14,580
So that's my sales pitch.

2168
02:19:15,100 --> 02:19:16,000
Buy a MicroSeed if you want.

2169
02:19:16,060 --> 02:19:17,580
I don't care, but run a node, please.

2170
02:19:18,360 --> 02:19:20,540
Yeah, I really appreciate you hammering that home.

2171
02:19:20,820 --> 02:19:21,200
Thank you.

2172
02:19:22,280 --> 02:19:24,360
I think we're getting into dicey times here,

2173
02:19:24,520 --> 02:19:26,180
and I think it's going to come down to running a node

2174
02:19:26,180 --> 02:19:28,860
and holding your own keys and securing them.

2175
02:19:29,640 --> 02:19:32,240
So I'll leave it to you for any parting words.

2176
02:19:32,500 --> 02:19:34,800
I'll let people know where they can find you and your work in MicroSeed.

2177
02:19:34,800 --> 02:19:36,640
and I'll definitely have to have you come back

2178
02:19:36,640 --> 02:19:38,620
because I'd love to hear your take on some of how things are

2179
02:19:38,620 --> 02:19:40,320
developing in the world and where we're going

2180
02:19:40,320 --> 02:19:42,700
oh yeah well Cedric

2181
02:19:42,700 --> 02:19:44,680
I would just say thank you so much I mean you've been

2182
02:19:44,680 --> 02:19:46,600
such an incredibly generous host I like

2183
02:19:46,600 --> 02:19:48,620
we said in that little kind of interruption

2184
02:19:48,620 --> 02:19:50,740
I didn't expect that we'd have like a deep

2185
02:19:50,740 --> 02:19:52,740
dive on this so it's been really

2186
02:19:52,740 --> 02:19:54,620
fun for me I hope I didn't bore you to tears

2187
02:19:54,620 --> 02:19:55,760
through all this kind of stuff

2188
02:19:55,760 --> 02:19:58,720
in terms of being able to find me you can find me at

2189
02:19:58,720 --> 02:20:00,600
Daniel21E15 on X

2190
02:20:00,600 --> 02:20:02,780
I rarely post there or you can find me

2191
02:20:02,780 --> 02:20:04,460
at Microseed underscore IO

2192
02:20:04,460 --> 02:20:08,020
and that's our sort of official Twitter account, which is also just me.

2193
02:20:08,680 --> 02:20:12,380
But I interact a lot more there just because I'm running the company now.

2194
02:20:12,720 --> 02:20:17,960
So yeah, if you have an opportunity, please check out the MicroSeed.

2195
02:20:18,280 --> 02:20:19,080
Check out the book.

2196
02:20:19,220 --> 02:20:20,540
I'm not here to peddle a book.

2197
02:20:20,680 --> 02:20:22,220
You can read it for free on Noster.

2198
02:20:22,220 --> 02:20:24,480
You can just follow the link from my homepage on Twitter

2199
02:20:24,480 --> 02:20:27,040
or you can get a paperback if you like.

2200
02:20:27,420 --> 02:20:28,800
I think it's an interesting read.

2201
02:20:28,860 --> 02:20:31,360
I'm working on a new book now, so hopefully that will be coming pretty soon

2202
02:20:31,360 --> 02:20:34,080
and I can tack on to some of the ideas I started in that one.

2203
02:20:34,460 --> 02:20:38,780
Thank you so much, Cedric. I feel incredibly blessed to be part of your show. Thank you so much.

2204
02:20:38,900 --> 02:20:40,540
Thank you so much, Daniel. It's been so dope.

2205
02:21:04,460 --> 02:21:10,140
about bitcoin and let's keep growing this community together stay curious keep stacking and i'll catch

2206
02:21:10,140 --> 02:21:24,140
you in the next one