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That was the biggest thing is realizing how much I did not know and how much all the things I thought

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I knew were based on these assumptions that were all built on top of this foundation of quicksale.

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People complain about the problem. They don't know that there's a solution out there. Bitcoin

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is the only find it asset, right? We all wish we would have paid attention to Bitcoin the first

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time we heard about it. Very few people actually did. I don't think Bitcoin is done running yet.

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I think in 2026, we're going to see a massive influx of people. Like they don't want it when

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it's on sale. They want it when it's at new all-time highs. That's when they pile in.

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I thought it was dead, I thought it crashed again, but it's still here and wow, it's double

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what it was the last time I looked.

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That's funny.

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Maybe I should go search for Bitcoin on YouTube.

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If even one more person decides to start saving in Bitcoin to change their life by learning

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about Bitcoin, my show will have been a success.

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What is real?

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How do you define real?

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You can't jump into cash.

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Cash is trash.

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What do you do?

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You get out.

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Walker America is one half of the crypto couple and the host of the Bitcoin podcast.

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Walker is also the senior vice president of Vibes Capital Management.

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He has the smoothest voice in Bitcoin.

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And he's here to talk about the separation of money and state.

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As he says, there is no red, there is no blue.

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There is the state and there is you.

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Walker America, welcome to the Bitcoin Matrix podcast.

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How are you?

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I'm good, man.

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Thanks for having me.

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Stoked to be on here.

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Yeah, man.

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I'm excited to get into it.

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I want to kind of go back to the beginning.

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So where did this all start?

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The crypto couple, your Bitcoin journey, your childhood.

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Where do you want to kick it off from?

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Because I want to hear about your background.

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The crypto couple thing, that started during the pandemic.

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Carl and I were working our fiat jobs, then also we're working on a startup.

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the startup hit some snags with supply chain issues. We were trying to source some sensors

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and different microprocessors and things like that. And we just like, at that time, it was like,

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nobody could get microprocessors. Like it was, unless you were, you know, Apple or whatever.

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And so we hit a bit of a snag there and found ourselves a little bit more time on our hands

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that we were no longer dedicating to kind of getting the startup off the ground. And we had

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been lurking on, on Bitcoin Twitter. It was Twitter at that time, obviously. And we, the vibes were,

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The vibes were a little bit weird.

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This was, we'd been stacking Bitcoin since kind of like the mid-start of the pandemic in 2020.

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I can get back to when I first heard about Bitcoin because I've ignored Bitcoin longer than I've been stacking it,

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which is a mistake I think a lot of people have made and mistake people will continue to make.

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But we were, this was when things started getting really bearish in like 2021.

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You know, we started coming, blew off the all-time highs.

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Vibes were super weird.

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People were just down in the dumps.

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as Bitcoin started kind of cascading down maybe, you know, May, June, 2021.

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And we said, you know, everybody's so down in the dumps.

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Everybody's taking everything so seriously.

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All of the Bitcoin haters, you know, the Peter Schiff's,

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whether it's the gold bugs or the environmentalists,

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environmental FUD was really big at that time.

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It's kind of died off now.

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But everybody was just taking the opportunity to dance on Bitcoin's grave.

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And we were like, you know, what if we just made a little video

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making fun of different types of Bitcoin haters?

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Let's just see.

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We'll start a TikTok.

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TikTok had obviously blown up pretty big at that point, as most social media apps really did in the pandemic.

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Like, what else were people going to do?

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Made this TikTok.

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And it was, I mean, it was pretty solid.

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It was pretty funny.

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It wasn't like world shattering, you know?

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And the thing just took off.

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Like, hundreds of thousands of views within a couple of days, like, really blew up.

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And we said, oh, shit, people like this.

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Okay, like, must be a fluke, though.

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Let's make another.

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In another kind of similar vein.

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And it blew up also.

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And now we're thinking, okay, maybe there's something here.

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People are clearly kind of starved for this.

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And then we just kept going.

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At one point, we were making two or sometimes three videos a day.

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Just a lot of content.

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A lot of it not particularly great.

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It was more of a volume thing, but we were just churning it out.

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We started posting on Twitter as well.

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Because initially, again, we just started on TikTok.

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But very quickly, TikTok started kind of throttling our content.

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I think because we said stuff about COVID, we said we're also saying stuff about Bitcoin, obviously, which is apparently fine for a little while.

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Then it fell into that weird like you're giving financial advice or about an investment product.

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So they start throttling it.

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So we said, OK, let's go over to Twitter and start a new Twitter account from zero.

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And that pretty quickly started kind of blowing up.

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And the first Bitcoin conference we ever went to, shout out to Tone Vase and Mike Yarmaz, who were running Unconfiscatable in Vegas 2022.

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It was right around Valentine's Day 2022, somewhere around there.

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And they invited us.

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Tone Vase said, I'd love you guys to run the Scammy Awards.

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You guys are funny.

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I like you run the Scammy Awards.

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And so we did.

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And that was our first conference experience.

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Met some people who have now been our friends for years, which is just amazing.

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At that conference, it was a great time.

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And the rest, as they say, is history.

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Just kept making videos, making content.

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We stopped, or I should say paused, making videos a little ways into Carla's pregnancy

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because she was just like, look, I'm tired.

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I'm making a child in here.

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I don't really have the energy to be doing all this editing because she was the editing guru and everything, right?

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All of the post-production, most of the acting too, and all of the singing as well.

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She was really carrying the torch there.

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And so I said, well, what is a man to do when he wants to talk about Bitcoin,

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but is no longer making short-form content?

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Well, of course, he should start a podcast, as should everyone.

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Anyone listening should start a Bitcoin podcast.

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A rising tide lifts all boats.

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We need more Bitcoin podcasts.

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There are still far too few.

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Until there are more Bitcoin podcasts than TradFi podcasts, we do not have enough.

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So maybe I'll pause there.

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But the moral of the story here is you can just do things.

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You can just start making content.

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You have a supercomputer and a production studio literally right here on your phone.

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Anybody can start making content.

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You don't have to be super talented.

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the AI tools that are available have gotten so like worlds better.

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They didn't even exist when we started making content just a couple of short

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years ago.

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All of that's going to continue getting better,

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lowering the barrier to entry.

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And the legacy media is not the mainstream anymore.

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The legacy media is dead.

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Independent content creators in the mainstream podcasts,

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the mainstream short form creators are the mainstream.

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That is how people consume information.

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And so if you have a message that you want to get out there,

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there's nothing stopping,

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you know,

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there's no excuse.

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The only thing stopping you is yourself.

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You just have to start doing it.

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All right.

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I mean, there's lots of unpacked there.

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That was awesome.

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Okay.

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So you started making content.

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Did you have any background in making content before or, or performing growing up or anything?

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Was it something you, you were noodling on or wanted to do or just kind of really did

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fumble into?

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No, I mean, not me.

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Carla did.

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Carla was like, was a classically trained like opera singer for a little while.

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Also did theater and musical theater for many years.

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she also learned like all of her editing stuff she learned because she went to school for journalism

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and like a couple different journalism tracks and business and so she learned a bunch of

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documentary filmmaking and editing and all these things so she's like a final cut whiz you know

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she'll tell you she's not but she is at me no I'm went to school for engineering didn't have any sort

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of background in in acting or anything like that you know besides like really really minor like

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little things in school or something like that, but not even, not even like not, not

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plays or anything like that.

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And so no, didn't really have any of that.

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That's why she did most of the singing and the, uh, the acting.

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But I think it was one of those things we didn't set out to do this.

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Like we didn't, our goal wasn't to say, we're going to start making content and here's our

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plan for how we're going to grow to this many followers.

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And then we'll start getting invited to Bitcoin conferences.

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We'll become niche internet micro celebrities.

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And, uh, and that'll be fine.

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It was like, we just kind of started doing it and, and kept doing it.

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And inertia kept us kept us moving.

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And it was honestly a great outlet for us.

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It was also an amazing way for us to learn about Bitcoin, because I think anybody who

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teaches in any way knows this.

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And like we're all teachers in some way, right?

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We're all educators.

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I think anybody who evangelizes on behalf of Bitcoin is an educator, right?

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When you talk to your friends and your family, you try to distill Bitcoin down into into

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simple terms.

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That's that's education, right?

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You're teaching.

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And I think anybody who has tried to do that knows that the hardest thing to do is to explain something complex in simple terms in a short amount of time.

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It's easy to use long, drawn-out sentences and verbose language and technical jargon.

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That's easy.

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It's easy to explain something complex in a complex way.

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It's hard to explain something complex in a simple way.

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Like to be able to ELI five, that requires that, you know, the material backwards and forwards, you have to master the material to be able to teach it well. And I think the act of teaching it or trying to figure out how to teach material forces you to master it. Like it's this beautiful Ouroboros, you know, you, you need to become a master of that domain in order to explain it simply.

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And so for us, anytime we're making a video, we were trying to figure out, you know, this is how we went down all these different rabbit holes.

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And, you know, shout out to amazing, amazing Bitcoin podcasters.

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Shout out to amazing Bitcoin authors like the Bitcoin standard.

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I think for for a lot of us was a huge kind of awakening point.

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Right. Just really sending us down the Austrian economics rabbit hole for me, at least.

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I didn't know what Austrian economics was until Seyfedean was talking about it.

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So I owe him a huge debt of gratitude.

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But you have to learn about these things to explain them simply.

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And then once you can explain them simply, once you can really break this down, it becomes a lot more fun, right?

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Because then you can figure out, okay, it's not so much how do I, I know how to explain it simply,

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but how do I explain it simply in a way that's going to be sticky?

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Because we can, you know, saying Bitcoin is sound money, there will only ever be 21 million,

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you know, nobody can corrupt it, nobody can debase it, da-da-da.

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Saying these things, they may be true, but that's not sticky for most people.

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It's certainly not sticky in our instant gratification, goldfish brain environment of

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social media.

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You need to hook people, you need to get them interested and you need to keep their attention

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and then you want them to actually remember it after they finish because everybody knows

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this, this feeling of being on, you know, scrolling X or scrolling, whatever it might

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be.

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TikTok, Instagram, doesn't matter.

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Facebook, if you're still there, I guess I'm not.

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But if you are, you're scrolling, you spend five minutes, maybe you're sitting on the

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toilet while you do it.

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Then you finish your business, you get up and you're like, I have no idea what I just read or what I just watched.

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I literally like I couldn't tell you.

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I can maybe remember the last thing vaguely, but I couldn't tell you any specifics about it.

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Nothing actually stuck there in a deep way.

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And that's because this information isn't meant to be to commit to long term memory.

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It's meant to keep you dopamine addicted in the short term.

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So how do you actually make sure that people remember?

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Well, you got to get creative.

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And that's where like the musical side of things came in.

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I think that's been that was the thing where Carla was really able to shine.

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She's got an incredible voice.

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And, you know, if you can put something into song format with the songs that people recognize, you know,

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it's raining men or cry me a river or, you know, some ABBA money, money, money.

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These are things that are already sticky in people's brains.

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You're just putting new lyrics to them, you know.

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So I think that was a huge kind of a huge moment that was made it a lot of fun

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and also gave us the ability to make content that was going to be much more sticky in the long term

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and be evergreen.

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Because that's the other thing.

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It's like having content that people can go back to

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and go back to and send to their friends and family

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years later, that's what you want to be able to do, right?

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You want to make stuff that's going to be,

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that's going to have a long lifetime to it.

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If that makes sense.

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Health insurance is broken.

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I know it.

238
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239
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So when open enrollment rolls around

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and all those health insurance companies

241
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start hoping you'll just re-sign, eyes closed,

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for the same overpriced plan with confusing fine print,

243
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It feels like they're betting on your inaction, but we deserve better than that.

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That's why I started looking for something different for me and my family.

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00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:19,300
Something honest.

246
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That's when I found CrowdHealth.

247
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248
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249
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250
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access to low-cost prescriptions and lab tests,

251
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and a list of doctors who don't treat you like a number.

252
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And if something major happens, you cover the first $500.

253
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Then the crowd steps in to help share the rest.

254
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It feels real. It feels like taking care of your health the way it should be.

255
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256
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257
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258
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260
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261
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Well, I mean, there's a lot there, too. So maybe, though, I agree.

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I think we need more voices. People are going to relate to voices that are similar to theirs, maybe.

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or, you know, there's always probably a desire to hear a different way of, you know, talking about something and breaking it down.

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But maybe you could talk about the work that goes into running a podcast.

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So it you know you make a couple of pieces they take off that fun But you know to be consistent to like the grind maybe some of the things you didn anticipate or you know what is sort of the work that goes into running your show on a

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consistent basis so that it is still high quality and, you know, is good at orange

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filling people or even bringing people further down the rabbit hole?

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Yeah.

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So after, again, you know, Carla had been pregnant for a little while and was getting

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getting bigger. And she decided to like take a step back. As I mentioned, I went and started

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making the podcast and kind of wanted to initially, I wanted to make a podcast that was going to be

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like a, it was going to be satire. It was going to be another fucking Bitcoin podcast was going

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to be like the actual title of it. Because at that point I really thought like, oh, there's so many

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Bitcoin podcasts, you know, how can I possibly like, you know, compete with all these? I'll just

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make a Bitcoin podcast about Bitcoin podcasts. You know, it's Bitcoin podcasters podcasting about

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Bitcoin podcasts, really meta and satirical, make it all a joke. And I was playing with that idea

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for a while. And then I thought, well, okay, but, but what if you just actually tried to make a

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high quality podcast? Like you didn't make this joke. It doesn't mean you have to take everything

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super seriously. You can have some fun with it still. You can, you know, get the domain titcoin.org

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and call it titcoin podcast, you know, and the handle, like you can still have some fun with it,

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but maybe there is room for more voices. And it turns out there was, and there very much still is

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again, everybody should start a Bitcoin podcast. If you're passionate about Bitcoin, there's plenty

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of room. And so for me, honestly, I was, I knew it was going to be a lot of work, but you know,

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this, like it's, it is a lot of work to run a podcast. Like it's, it doesn't stop when the

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microphone's off. You then, then like the most of the work comes after the fact, most of the work

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is prepping and then all the post-production, all the following up, everything that goes with it.

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And so I was kind of, I was a little bit surprised at how time consuming that work was and the tools

289
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have gotten a lot better. We're recording on Riverside right now. It's what I use as well.

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Just Riverside alone, since I started using it for the podcast in the space of, you know,

291
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two years, it's improved by leaps and bounds. There's way more automations, way more cool

292
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things you can do. So that's great. Like, it's great to see technology making things better for

293
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us. But in terms of like what, what goes into it for me, I guess I've, I've just recently actually

294
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brought somebody on to help me do the YouTube side of things. I hate the YouTube side of things.

295
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I hate playing to the algorithm. I don't like that. I initially wasn't even going to have video

296
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on my podcast. I was just going to have it be an actual audio only podcast, you know, a true podcast

297
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because I never watched, I literally never watched podcasts on YouTube ever. That was not a thing

298
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that I did. I only listened to them and I just assumed, you know, that most people probably did

299
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the same. Then I realized, Oh my God, no, actually for most Bitcoin podcasts where they have the most

300
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reach is not their RSS feed. It's on YouTube. So then a little ways in, I'm like, okay, I guess I

301
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got to start. I got to get a camera. I got to, you know, get a setup and all of this. And so that was

302
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again, another learning moment. I think for me, what I try to do is make sure that I I'm, I'm not

303
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going to try to be anything that I'm not when it comes to how I conduct myself for my podcast. You

304
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know what I mean? Like there's like the very Lex Friedman style of podcasting, which is like,

305
00:16:57,632 --> 00:17:05,732
let me ask you a lot of very serious questions and I'll ask them one after another. And I really

306
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won't follow up with the questions. If there's a cool tangent, I'll just kind of stick to my script.

307
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And when did you first realize that you were in love with your own mother? You know, like I,

308
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I can't do that. Right. I'm, I need to be a little more off the cuff. I need this to be a conversation.

309
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I let, you know, I like Joe Rogan style of doing things. It's just a conversation. I think more

310
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interesting, more interesting dynamics, more interesting takeaways come out of those conversations.

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And so trying to make sure that I kept it light and kept it fun, that was always a priority.

312
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In terms of, I mean, are you curious like about like nuts and bolts wise, like how,

313
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like actually, like, what do I use? I'm happy to tell people because I actually started,

314
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I got so many questions because I've been evangelizing for Bitcoin podcast saying everybody

315
00:17:46,292 --> 00:17:50,072
should start one. I put together something on my website that just like, this is the gear I use.

316
00:17:50,072 --> 00:17:52,652
Like just, you can go to bitcoinpodcast.net slash gear.

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There's links to, to, to get all the gear that I have on Amazon.

318
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You, the nice thing is that you can start a podcast with a very small capital investment,

319
00:18:02,552 --> 00:18:02,952
right?

320
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You don't need a nice, like a super nice microphone.

321
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You can get a pretty inexpensive one.

322
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That sounds great.

323
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You can use your phone for filming, like phones shoot 4k.

324
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Like you're, you're good to go.

325
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You don't need it.

326
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Like, that's the cool thing.

327
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It's the barrier to entry is very low.

328
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And for me, I wanted to make sure, cause I still have a fiat job.

329
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Like I still have a quite a demanding fiat job and I needed to make sure that I was going to be able to still excel in that role while also making a podcast that is quality.

330
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So it all came down to how can I optimize this as much as possible?

331
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How can I make sure that I'm going to be able to put out a quality product without it taking absolutely all of my time when my time is already scarce?

332
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Chris and I have a young son as well, and I have a wife,

333
00:18:44,912 --> 00:18:47,172
and they both presumably want to spend time with me,

334
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and I want to spend time with them.

335
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So for me, it's about, okay, what do I do?

336
00:18:51,572 --> 00:18:53,092
Riverside is one of the best tools that I have,

337
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and I'm sure it is the same for you.

338
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I'm able to automate so much of things

339
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that being able to do text-based editing is amazing.

340
00:19:00,632 --> 00:19:03,832
But really, it just comes down to, I don't know,

341
00:19:04,132 --> 00:19:07,772
utilizing the incredible tools that we have at our disposal,

342
00:19:07,772 --> 00:19:09,332
whether those be software or hardware,

343
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utilizing the platforms that are going to be the highest impact.

344
00:19:12,252 --> 00:19:14,812
Like I focus on X and I focus on Noster.

345
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I focus a lot on Noster.

346
00:19:16,112 --> 00:19:21,092
I've got more podcast followers on Noster than I do on X by like four or 5,000.

347
00:19:21,092 --> 00:19:24,052
It's up to almost like 20,000 followers in the podcast on Noster

348
00:19:24,052 --> 00:19:27,832
because that's also a dedicated audience of people who I know care about Bitcoin.

349
00:19:28,212 --> 00:19:29,492
So I like to focus a lot there.

350
00:19:30,652 --> 00:19:36,332
And then, yeah, where I was lucky is I was able to get a lot of people to come on the show

351
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that are, you know, quote, like big, big names because I'd met those people already through

352
00:19:41,412 --> 00:19:45,892
just being a court jester. So I had a little unfair advantage there in that I already knew

353
00:19:45,892 --> 00:19:49,532
a lot of people. I was able to have some doors open where I could say, would you mind coming

354
00:19:49,532 --> 00:19:54,092
on the show and shoot them a text and they'd be happy to do so. I'm very, I think you know,

355
00:19:54,092 --> 00:19:57,892
this as well, people within the Bitcoin space are so generous with their time,

356
00:19:57,892 --> 00:20:03,672
even though they know better than almost anyone in the world, how scarce your time is, you know,

357
00:20:03,672 --> 00:20:08,812
Bitcoin is the only finite asset, right? Besides your time and your time is even more finite and

358
00:20:08,812 --> 00:20:13,172
more unknown unlike Bitcoin. And so I think that's, that's an incredible thing, but I don't know if I

359
00:20:13,172 --> 00:20:15,972
really answered the question there. That was just kind of a roundabout way of me saying,

360
00:20:16,072 --> 00:20:22,332
I use Riverside. I do what I can to keep my workflows optimized as possible. And I focus

361
00:20:22,332 --> 00:20:27,112
on trying to, uh, to interact with people on the platforms where I know, or the protocols where I

362
00:20:27,112 --> 00:20:30,872
know the impact is going to be highest. Like I don't mess around with tech talk. I just don't

363
00:20:30,872 --> 00:20:34,712
have any interest to. I've never had it on my phone. Carla had it on her phone. I was like,

364
00:20:34,752 --> 00:20:40,072
you can have the Chinese spyware. I'll just keep mine clean. So never focused on that. Only recently

365
00:20:40,072 --> 00:20:44,052
set up an Instagram account for it. Don't really like using that either. I just find it to be kind

366
00:20:44,052 --> 00:20:50,212
of hollow. So Noster is where I spend most of the time focused for at least the conversations

367
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371
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a discount on your order. Yeah, not only are Bitcoiners, I think, generous, but I find them

372
00:21:23,612 --> 00:21:29,332
courageous to go on little to no known shows, not know what they're going to be asked, where it's

373
00:21:29,332 --> 00:21:33,412
going to go, how they're going to be edited. I think it takes an element there of courage.

374
00:21:33,992 --> 00:21:38,332
Maybe how long do you think or how much time do you think during the week does it take you to

375
00:21:38,332 --> 00:21:44,252
do the whole show to give people an idea? I mean, if I had to guess, I mean, well, it's at least a,

376
00:21:44,252 --> 00:21:51,612
you know, hour and a half to two hours for every recording prep time for each is probably about the

377
00:21:51,612 --> 00:21:55,332
same because I want to, it depends, it depends who it is. It depends, depends who I'm prepping

378
00:21:55,332 --> 00:21:58,732
for. Cause some people have had them on before. If I know them well, if I know we're going to talk

379
00:21:58,732 --> 00:22:02,312
about, I don't need to prep very much at all. I can just, I know the conversation is going to flow.

380
00:22:02,392 --> 00:22:05,852
If it's somebody new, then I need to maybe do a little more research, dig into their background

381
00:22:05,852 --> 00:22:10,532
a little bit, figure out more about them so that I can make sure that it's a, a well-structured

382
00:22:10,532 --> 00:22:13,972
conversation that still has room to go off on tangents and rants and everything else.

383
00:22:14,672 --> 00:22:18,472
And then editing wise, I mean, that's honestly what takes the most time. I think the editing

384
00:22:18,472 --> 00:22:22,992
is probably it's the same amount of time as the recording, not, not just for like, not really doing

385
00:22:22,992 --> 00:22:27,192
any real editing besides picking the parts from the episode that I want to put as the kind of

386
00:22:27,192 --> 00:22:31,552
highlight reel at the beginning and then getting it all structured together and throwing in ad

387
00:22:31,552 --> 00:22:36,192
reads and intro, outro, whatever. And then honestly, posting takes a shocking amount of time,

388
00:22:36,192 --> 00:22:38,952
just going through and doing it across everything. Like it's such a pain in the,

389
00:22:39,012 --> 00:22:42,252
pain in the ass. That's why I brought somebody on to do the YouTube side. Cause again, I just,

390
00:22:42,332 --> 00:22:46,692
I don't like constructing YouTube thumbnails and doing that kind of thing and figuring out what's

391
00:22:46,692 --> 00:22:51,412
going to, it's going to please the algorithm. I just, I can't stand that. So, I mean, it's a good

392
00:22:51,412 --> 00:22:55,572
amount of time. I do most of my editing, uh, and most of like all the podcast work besides the

393
00:22:55,572 --> 00:23:01,852
interviews themselves in the late evenings, uh, into the wee hours of the night after my wife and

394
00:23:01,852 --> 00:23:08,032
son have gone to bed. So yeah, uh, I, I spend, I mean, I guess probably it's probably at least

395
00:23:08,032 --> 00:23:13,292
five plus hours per episode on either side of it. Plus the recording, I would say like at least,

396
00:23:13,292 --> 00:23:17,652
I don't know maybe maybe you're more efficient than I am but yeah that's now that time's going

397
00:23:17,652 --> 00:23:22,452
down that time's going down a little bit but you know with uh bring some people on to help with the

398
00:23:22,452 --> 00:23:27,432
YouTube side but yeah this stuff takes a while you're probably talking about 10 to 20 hours a

399
00:23:27,432 --> 00:23:32,012
week and you're probably trying to grind it down to 8 to 12 as much as you can so you can spend

400
00:23:32,012 --> 00:23:36,092
time with your family and get that back but it's amazing how that stuff just kind of builds even

401
00:23:36,092 --> 00:23:42,952
just that administrative stuff like posting I saw your panel in Vegas that you did with your wife

402
00:23:42,952 --> 00:23:48,572
Carla and Katie the Russian and JD Lott and George McHale. And it was called Raising Future

403
00:23:48,572 --> 00:23:54,132
Bitcoiners, sort of fiat families versus Bitcoin families. You know, a lot of Bitcoin families are

404
00:23:54,132 --> 00:23:58,712
interested in homeschooling. Either they are or they want to or they want to know more about it.

405
00:23:59,572 --> 00:24:05,312
From what I gather, you grew up homeschooled. Can you talk about your experience? I mean,

406
00:24:05,672 --> 00:24:09,792
was it just something that your parents initiated and you didn't know any different?

407
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Were you sort of the weird kid or an outlier? Did you have opportunities to socialize, play sports?

408
00:24:17,032 --> 00:24:18,432
How would you sort of characterize?

409
00:24:19,052 --> 00:24:23,892
I would say the older I get, the more grateful I am to my parents that they homeschooled me.

410
00:24:24,412 --> 00:24:30,332
It's a sacrifice that parents make. It's obviously, it's a lot easier to put your kids on a school bus,

411
00:24:31,012 --> 00:24:35,012
send them off for eight plus hours a day and go about your business, right?

412
00:24:35,112 --> 00:24:36,652
That's the path of least resistance.

413
00:24:36,652 --> 00:24:44,512
The problem is that I think that that path creates more resistance later in life, and it ultimately takes away so much time that you could be spending with your kids.

414
00:24:45,092 --> 00:24:50,472
So I'm very grateful that my parents took the initiative to homeschool my sister and myself.

415
00:24:51,612 --> 00:24:58,292
I was homeschooled until high school when I decided, I told my parents, I want to go to, I want to try public school.

416
00:24:58,292 --> 00:25:06,592
I was actually, I was legitimately worried that I might be really far behind, like that I might, you know, maybe I, the reason I thought that I was going to be

417
00:25:06,592 --> 00:25:10,732
so far behind the kids in public school is because I, uh, I did a lot of socialization,

418
00:25:10,792 --> 00:25:14,932
right? This, this myth that if you're homeschooled, your kids won't get socialized. It's like,

419
00:25:14,972 --> 00:25:21,032
it's bullshit. It's complete bullshit. You, you have sports, you have community activities,

420
00:25:21,032 --> 00:25:24,572
you have church, you have whatever you have, whatever it might be for you and your family,

421
00:25:24,952 --> 00:25:29,072
but there are so many different things you can do. We also, we started a small charter school with

422
00:25:29,072 --> 00:25:34,012
like five other families bringing in tutors from the outside, things like that. There are all these

423
00:25:34,012 --> 00:25:37,812
things you can do to create opportunities for socialization. That's not hard. That's something

424
00:25:37,812 --> 00:25:42,872
that humans naturally do. Maybe you have to do a little bit more work, but it's also more natural

425
00:25:42,872 --> 00:25:47,692
socialization. It's socialization with people that aren't just exactly the same age as you,

426
00:25:48,172 --> 00:25:52,472
sitting in a room for eight hours a day, being told to walk in a straight line, and you can go

427
00:25:52,472 --> 00:25:55,572
to the bathroom at this time and raise your hand if you want to speak and all these things.

428
00:25:56,332 --> 00:26:02,152
It's socialization that's normal. I think the type of socialization that happens in public school is

429
00:26:02,152 --> 00:26:09,072
quite abnormal. It's based on this, where does mandatory public education come from? It comes

430
00:26:09,072 --> 00:26:16,532
from the Prussian era, right? It literally comes from the Prussians lost some major battles.

431
00:26:17,552 --> 00:26:20,872
And the king, I'm forgetting his name at the time, but the king basically said,

432
00:26:21,212 --> 00:26:25,652
we need to get our kids in shape. We need to start training them to be good soldiers

433
00:26:25,652 --> 00:26:29,492
from the moment they're young children. How do we do that? Well, we make sure that we get them

434
00:26:29,492 --> 00:26:31,292
into a giant big hall together.

435
00:26:31,752 --> 00:26:32,972
And we tell them exactly what to do

436
00:26:32,972 --> 00:26:34,372
and what to think and how to follow orders.

437
00:26:34,572 --> 00:26:36,592
And then they'll be primed and ready to be good soldiers.

438
00:26:36,592 --> 00:26:38,472
Or if they're not soldiers, good little worker bees,

439
00:26:39,112 --> 00:26:41,652
good little citizens, just good little drones.

440
00:26:42,252 --> 00:26:43,352
This is exactly what they did.

441
00:26:43,352 --> 00:26:47,992
Another group that happened to love mandatory public education,

442
00:26:48,172 --> 00:26:49,912
compulsory public schooling a lot, was the Nazis.

443
00:26:50,692 --> 00:26:51,752
Hitler was a big fan of that.

444
00:26:51,832 --> 00:26:54,792
Homeschooling has been illegal in Germany since the Nazis.

445
00:26:55,132 --> 00:26:56,892
It's funny that Germany gets rid of absolutely

446
00:26:56,892 --> 00:26:58,772
every other vestige of the Nazis,

447
00:26:58,772 --> 00:27:00,532
but they kept compulsory public schooling.

448
00:27:00,652 --> 00:27:03,132
It's still illegal to homeschool your children in Germany.

449
00:27:03,752 --> 00:27:04,692
I think that's insane.

450
00:27:05,232 --> 00:27:07,992
I think that is insane that you should not be allowed as a parent

451
00:27:07,992 --> 00:27:10,192
to do what you think is best for your child.

452
00:27:10,292 --> 00:27:13,712
I think that is honestly criminal and a massive state overreach.

453
00:27:14,072 --> 00:27:15,452
Again, why Germans?

454
00:27:15,572 --> 00:27:18,432
Why Germans have you kept this last vestige of Hitler and the Nazis?

455
00:27:18,512 --> 00:27:19,492
It doesn't make any sense.

456
00:27:20,252 --> 00:27:21,552
Or maybe it does.

457
00:27:22,432 --> 00:27:26,632
Point being, I was worried that I was going to be behind these kids.

458
00:27:26,632 --> 00:27:30,412
I saw all of my friends who I was in sports with or whatever, you know, friends that were

459
00:27:30,412 --> 00:27:31,972
a little younger, a little older, same age as me.

460
00:27:31,972 --> 00:27:36,692
I had, you know, friends across the age spectrum and, you know, was used to interacting with

461
00:27:36,692 --> 00:27:41,392
adults as well and how to speak with adults because again, you should like no time in

462
00:27:41,392 --> 00:27:54,504
human history besides the past 150 years have kids just been like locked in a room with only people their own age exactly their own age It just doesn make any sense And I saw that my friends would always they would be in school for eight hours a day

463
00:27:54,864 --> 00:27:57,544
And then they would come home and they would do hours and hours of homework.

464
00:27:58,224 --> 00:28:03,964
And I was like, oh my God, they must like, I get all of my work done in two, three hours in the morning.

465
00:28:04,044 --> 00:28:06,064
You know, get up at six, I'm done by nine.

466
00:28:06,344 --> 00:28:07,404
Then I go play outside.

467
00:28:07,764 --> 00:28:11,384
Or like, you know, my mom takes me to apprentice with a blacksmith.

468
00:28:11,464 --> 00:28:16,224
or like to go do like random, random things like that, like incredible things. Like I spent some

469
00:28:16,224 --> 00:28:19,884
time with this awesome, badass blacksmith dude who literally was the first one who taught me

470
00:28:19,884 --> 00:28:26,064
about the Fibonacci sequence because how he uses it in his, uh, in his craft. These are experiences

471
00:28:26,064 --> 00:28:31,024
that you just don't have if you're locked in a room with only people your own age. And so then I,

472
00:28:31,104 --> 00:28:34,244
you know, I told them they were like, okay, it's your choice, but you know, you make the decision.

473
00:28:34,244 --> 00:28:36,644
If you want to go to public school, you can go to public school. It's like, we're not going to

474
00:28:36,644 --> 00:28:42,224
stop you. And I did. And then I found out, Oh no, it's not that you're stupid or that you're behind.

475
00:28:42,264 --> 00:28:46,264
You're, you're actually quite far ahead. I graduated number one after those four years

476
00:28:46,264 --> 00:28:51,504
of high school. And it was one of these realizations where I got into school and I realized

477
00:28:51,504 --> 00:28:54,964
very quickly, like, Oh wow, everything is catering to the lowest common denominator.

478
00:28:55,224 --> 00:28:58,804
We're going at this snail's pace. We're not even doing all the problem. We're not doing all the

479
00:28:58,804 --> 00:29:03,584
problems in our math textbook. I didn't know that Bob back of book existed, you know, like this,

480
00:29:03,584 --> 00:29:07,364
you could just find all the answers and that's where kids would just go and you know get the

481
00:29:07,364 --> 00:29:12,604
answers and write them down and like I don't know it was it was kind of a shock to the system for me

482
00:29:12,604 --> 00:29:19,584
because I realized not only are you are you not behind you're you're quite far ahead of 99.9% of

483
00:29:19,584 --> 00:29:28,104
of your peers here and also that this system is not incentivizing you or rewarding you for being

484
00:29:28,104 --> 00:29:35,284
ahead. In fact, you're, you're kind of throttled, right? And so that was, yeah, I'm glad that I got

485
00:29:35,284 --> 00:29:39,444
that experience because I think it showed me both sides of the coin. But to anybody who's thinking

486
00:29:39,444 --> 00:29:43,484
about homeschooling, I think it's a wonderful, wonderful thing and the greatest gift you can

487
00:29:43,484 --> 00:29:47,784
give your children. And it's also a great thing for yourself. Like now we live in this time where

488
00:29:47,784 --> 00:29:54,244
a lot of people work remotely or are able to work remotely. We can, you know, it's also a problem

489
00:29:54,244 --> 00:29:57,944
that most people, in order to keep their family afloat,

490
00:29:58,024 --> 00:29:59,124
both parents need to work.

491
00:29:59,224 --> 00:30:02,364
I think that's one of the greatest destructive forces

492
00:30:02,364 --> 00:30:04,004
that fiat has wrought on us,

493
00:30:04,024 --> 00:30:06,964
is that you can't have a mom staying home,

494
00:30:07,424 --> 00:30:10,664
spending all of that quality time with the kids.

495
00:30:11,484 --> 00:30:14,824
The kids are in school, the mom and dad are both working,

496
00:30:15,344 --> 00:30:16,744
and then they see each other just at night.

497
00:30:16,744 --> 00:30:19,644
In the early mornings and at night after they get home,

498
00:30:19,704 --> 00:30:21,404
when everybody's all tired and everybody's worn out,

499
00:30:21,544 --> 00:30:23,944
how much time are you missing?

500
00:30:24,244 --> 00:30:29,504
that could be spent doing what I think is the most important thing in the world, which is

501
00:30:29,504 --> 00:30:35,524
raising your kids. Like I'm, I'm so grateful to Carla that like, that is, that is what she is

502
00:30:35,524 --> 00:30:40,704
doing. We're going to homeschool our son and any future kids that we have. I work. I also am able

503
00:30:40,704 --> 00:30:46,504
to work from home, which is nice. And, and her focus is how do I make sure that this kid has the

504
00:30:46,504 --> 00:30:51,344
best childhood possible, right? And spend as much time with us as possible. Because again, time,

505
00:30:51,344 --> 00:30:55,784
Time, that's the only thing that is truly, truly finite besides Bitcoin, right?

506
00:30:56,004 --> 00:30:57,384
Our time is very finite.

507
00:30:57,544 --> 00:30:58,624
We don't know how much of it we get.

508
00:30:59,404 --> 00:31:04,904
What a shame that this system incentivizes people to spend the majority of their time

509
00:31:04,904 --> 00:31:07,384
away from their kids instead of with them.

510
00:31:07,664 --> 00:31:10,324
I think that's just a, that is truly a shame.

511
00:31:10,604 --> 00:31:12,584
And I think we're seeing the effects of it too.

512
00:31:13,044 --> 00:31:15,044
We're seeing the effects of all of this.

513
00:31:15,044 --> 00:31:23,424
So if you have the ability and the desire, I think homeschooling is a wonderful thing, wonderful thing to do for your kids.

514
00:31:24,064 --> 00:31:26,184
If you're in Germany, I'm sorry, you're shit out of luck.

515
00:31:26,224 --> 00:31:27,184
You can't do that. It's illegal.

516
00:31:27,304 --> 00:31:29,504
Maybe you should petition your government or move elsewhere.

517
00:31:29,724 --> 00:31:35,564
But boy, what a crazy world we live in where it's been normalized to ship your kids off and spend so little time with them.

518
00:31:35,564 --> 00:31:44,624
Yeah, for sure. What do you think is maybe the benefit or difference of being a Bitcoin family

519
00:31:44,624 --> 00:31:50,124
versus a fiat family? And I like to think of that as something that's not related to how much Bitcoin

520
00:31:50,124 --> 00:31:55,004
or how many sats you have. But what do you think is like sort of the difference there? Like, so

521
00:31:55,004 --> 00:32:00,224
you're stacking sats, whatever you have, and what does it mean to be a Bitcoin family versus, you

522
00:32:00,224 --> 00:32:04,824
know, fiat family? It's a great question. If you're comparing Bitcoin family versus fiat family,

523
00:32:04,824 --> 00:32:11,464
so much of it has to come down to time preference it has to come down to how are you thinking about

524
00:32:11,464 --> 00:32:18,164
the way that you spend your time the actions that you take the moves that you make the choices that

525
00:32:18,164 --> 00:32:23,344
are brought before you are you thinking about it in terms of the short term are you thinking about

526
00:32:23,344 --> 00:32:29,084
it in terms of the long term because a lot of times the the choices that may be easier for the

527
00:32:29,084 --> 00:32:33,384
short term and and harder in the long term those are the ones that are so much so so so detrimental

528
00:32:33,384 --> 00:32:39,504
really. Like, again, it's very easy. It's very high time preference. You know, look, it's very

529
00:32:39,504 --> 00:32:46,844
just short thinking to ship your kids off for eight plus hours a day, five days a week to public

530
00:32:46,844 --> 00:32:53,184
school. I think that's, you know, that's easy, but what effect does that have in the long run?

531
00:32:53,564 --> 00:32:58,624
Like you can't get that time back. And I think, you know, a lot of Bitcoiners,

532
00:32:58,624 --> 00:33:05,164
no matter how much Bitcoin you have and no matter what your particular place is on the

533
00:33:05,164 --> 00:33:10,244
socioeconomic ladder, having even just a little bit of Bitcoin allows you to have more control

534
00:33:10,244 --> 00:33:15,344
over that time. You have more of a safety net for your family. You also have something that you know

535
00:33:15,344 --> 00:33:20,624
is going to continue growing and purchasing power year over year over year over year.

536
00:33:20,624 --> 00:33:26,744
I thought I understood the idea of time preference pretty well. I read the Bitcoin standard after all

537
00:33:26,744 --> 00:33:31,284
and I'm a Bitcoiner and thought I understood it pretty well. And then I, our son arrived and I

538
00:33:31,284 --> 00:33:35,784
said, Oh wow. Now I understand what it means to have a low time preference. Now I truly care about

539
00:33:35,784 --> 00:33:41,564
what happens, not just 10, 20, 30, 40 years from now, but when I'm gone, I care about what happens

540
00:33:41,564 --> 00:33:47,144
when I, when I eventually die, because I will, we all do what happens then. And then what happens,

541
00:33:47,724 --> 00:33:51,384
what happens another generation after that? Like, how am I setting up? What kind of legacy am I

542
00:33:51,384 --> 00:33:55,824
going to leave? And not a legacy from, I think legacy gets a bad rap sometimes. It's, it's

543
00:33:55,824 --> 00:34:01,424
associated with this idea that you you're somehow feeling so self-important that you want to you

544
00:34:01,424 --> 00:34:06,384
know impose this legacy or whatever but I don't look at it that way I think it's about how do you

545
00:34:06,384 --> 00:34:14,004
give your family and your descendants the best possible shot at success how do you instill values

546
00:34:14,004 --> 00:34:18,324
in them that are going to last generations how do you build things how do you build structures

547
00:34:18,324 --> 00:34:24,524
whether physical or figurative that are going to last far into the future and so I think that that's

548
00:34:24,524 --> 00:34:26,484
that Bitcoiners think about a lot.

549
00:34:26,604 --> 00:34:27,804
The Bitcoiners I talk to,

550
00:34:28,384 --> 00:34:29,984
they think about this constantly,

551
00:34:30,104 --> 00:34:32,524
especially the ones that are fathers or mothers.

552
00:34:33,484 --> 00:34:36,924
They think about what are we going to do for the long term?

553
00:34:36,984 --> 00:34:41,584
I think this is contrasted with a lot of the boomer mentality.

554
00:34:41,724 --> 00:34:42,384
Not all boomers.

555
00:34:42,464 --> 00:34:44,304
Again, I've met a lot of incredible boomers

556
00:34:44,304 --> 00:34:45,224
through Bitcoin, right?

557
00:34:45,704 --> 00:34:47,264
But that generation,

558
00:34:48,144 --> 00:34:49,784
I'm generalizing here again, boomers,

559
00:34:49,784 --> 00:34:50,304
if you're listening,

560
00:34:50,444 --> 00:34:52,144
like there are a lot of incredible boomers out there.

561
00:34:52,204 --> 00:34:53,464
This is not directed at you specifically.

562
00:34:53,464 --> 00:34:58,044
this is a broad strokes, a broad stroke statement. You hear all these stories. And I know these

563
00:34:58,044 --> 00:35:01,364
stories personally from, from talking to friends and, you know, hearing from family and whatnot.

564
00:35:02,424 --> 00:35:05,344
And of course, reading them on the internet, you shouldn't believe everything, but that's why you

565
00:35:05,344 --> 00:35:10,244
can talk to people in the real world about this, this idea that the boomers, they think that

566
00:35:10,244 --> 00:35:13,364
everybody needs to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. Like, you know, just go ahead and

567
00:35:13,364 --> 00:35:16,864
give them a firm handshake and hand them your resume and you'll be good. Just, just buy yourself

568
00:35:16,864 --> 00:35:20,444
a house. I got, after all, I got mine for two strawberries and it's worth, you know, $4 million

569
00:35:20,444 --> 00:35:25,884
dollars now. Why can't you just do that? This complete disassociation from the actual reality

570
00:35:25,884 --> 00:35:33,264
of the economic situation that allowed those boomers to benefit disproportionately. And then

571
00:35:33,264 --> 00:35:38,604
seeing the way a lot of boomers, you know, it's kind of like a lot of boomers like don't want to

572
00:35:38,604 --> 00:35:44,044
give their accumulated wealth to their offspring. It's kind of like a, well, I earned this and I'm

573
00:35:44,044 --> 00:35:47,384
going to enjoy my twilight years. And, you know, you can, you can figure it out just like I did,

574
00:35:47,384 --> 00:35:53,844
Sonny boy. I think that that's just such a, such a, such a selfish mentality. Like I want,

575
00:35:54,164 --> 00:35:59,604
I'm building things now. I'm working hard now, not so that I can sail off into the sunset and

576
00:35:59,604 --> 00:36:04,464
ignore my offspring and say, pick yourself up by your bootstrap, Sonny. It's so that I can be able

577
00:36:04,464 --> 00:36:10,644
to provide a framework that is going to give my son and future children the greatest probability

578
00:36:10,644 --> 00:36:16,184
of success. And so that I can spend as much time as possible with them. That's what I want to do,

579
00:36:16,184 --> 00:36:22,044
right? Like I work because it is satisfying, right? And I think men, we have a desire to work,

580
00:36:22,104 --> 00:36:27,964
to create, to be providers, to be fulfilled through that work of providing. But also it's

581
00:36:27,964 --> 00:36:33,264
like the whole point of working is so that you can have more freedom to do great things for your

582
00:36:33,264 --> 00:36:36,924
family and spend time with your family. Like that's the point. If you're just always working

583
00:36:36,924 --> 00:36:40,924
and working and working and working, but that doesn't actually equate to more freedom for your

584
00:36:40,924 --> 00:36:45,644
family or more, uh, more time spent with your family just equates to shinier objects that you

585
00:36:45,644 --> 00:36:49,824
bestow upon your family to excuse all the time you spent away. I don't really see the point in that.

586
00:36:50,284 --> 00:36:55,664
Like for me, it's about how do I, how do I make sure that I'm working in a really purposeful way,

587
00:36:56,264 --> 00:37:00,704
focusing on the things that matter most? Because any time that I'm working, that I'm spending,

588
00:37:00,864 --> 00:37:05,624
you know, that's time I'm spending away from my family. It's time I'm not focusing on them.

589
00:37:05,624 --> 00:37:10,304
I'm doing it for them, but it's time that I could be spending with them. So it's, it's for me,

590
00:37:10,304 --> 00:37:15,784
a constant calculus of, is this worth my time? And I have more freedom to make those decisions

591
00:37:15,784 --> 00:37:20,444
because of Bitcoin, because of what Bitcoin allows. It gives you more freedom over your time. It gives

592
00:37:20,444 --> 00:37:27,184
you more agency, I think, over your time because you have that way to actually save the value of

593
00:37:27,184 --> 00:37:30,844
your time and energy into the future without it being debased. You don't have to be stuck on that

594
00:37:30,844 --> 00:37:36,024
hamster wheel forever. So for me, I think to sum that up, the biggest difference between fiat

595
00:37:36,024 --> 00:37:41,184
families and Bitcoin families is just how they think about the time that they're spending.

596
00:37:42,024 --> 00:37:44,104
Is the time that both parents are working?

597
00:37:44,284 --> 00:37:48,664
Like there's a lot of parents you could have, you know, the wife or the husband, but let's

598
00:37:48,664 --> 00:37:51,644
be honest, usually the wife, because women are naturally more nurturing.

599
00:37:51,644 --> 00:37:54,244
Like this is a fact, but he has to be offended by this.

600
00:37:55,204 --> 00:38:00,004
You could have the one parent stay home and spend time with the children and homeschool

601
00:38:00,004 --> 00:38:00,344
your kids.

602
00:38:00,404 --> 00:38:02,644
You'd be, you'd be bringing in less money, right?

603
00:38:02,644 --> 00:38:09,184
but like I know a ton of people who send their kids off to uh you know to like really nice private

604
00:38:09,184 --> 00:38:13,764
daycares or we'll send them to private elementary schools or things like that that cost I mean they

605
00:38:13,764 --> 00:38:19,344
cost as much as college tuition and it's like one pair after taxes basically all of one parent's

606
00:38:19,344 --> 00:38:23,944
earnings are going towards just financing somebody else taking care of your fucking kids what the

607
00:38:23,944 --> 00:38:27,944
fuck is the point of that why the fuck is one of your parents spending all this time working

608
00:38:27,944 --> 00:38:32,884
away from the kids just to pay for somebody else to take care of your kids who does not care about

609
00:38:32,884 --> 00:38:36,984
your kids. No matter who they are, nobody's going to care as much as the parent. It's not possible.

610
00:38:37,364 --> 00:38:41,384
The state does not give a fuck about your kids. Some daycare instructor, they may be really nice

611
00:38:41,384 --> 00:38:45,244
and really sweet, Mrs. So-and-so, but they don't actually give a fuck about your kids in the same

612
00:38:45,244 --> 00:38:48,444
way that you do. They don't love your kids in the same way that you do. It's not possible.

613
00:38:48,964 --> 00:38:53,444
So for me, it's like being able to make those value judgments, being able to make those value

614
00:38:53,444 --> 00:38:57,664
judgments about how you spend your time. That is the biggest separating factor between a fiat family

615
00:38:57,664 --> 00:39:03,184
and a Bitcoin family. That was very well put. So before you were the Bitcoin family, you were the

616
00:39:03,184 --> 00:39:08,524
Bitcoin couple. So who found Bitcoin first? Who went down the rabbit hole first and was the other

617
00:39:08,524 --> 00:39:14,604
one easy to convince? Because I think a lot of people, they find Bitcoin and maybe their spouse

618
00:39:14,604 --> 00:39:19,884
or partner doesn't come along for the journey. Yeah, it's a question I get all the time. I've

619
00:39:19,884 --> 00:39:24,504
got this question of like, oh, you know, your wife is so into Bitcoin and how do I get my wife to

620
00:39:24,504 --> 00:39:29,484
care about Bitcoin. And I'm at a little bit of an advantage here because we kind of went down the

621
00:39:29,484 --> 00:39:38,504
rabbit hole meaningfully at the same time. I first heard about Bitcoin in 2014 during the Silk Road

622
00:39:38,504 --> 00:39:42,564
days. Now, let me clarify, I ignored Bitcoin. Somebody told me about Bitcoin. They were like,

623
00:39:42,644 --> 00:39:49,004
Walker, I'm buying such and such thing on this website called the Silk Road. It was a finance

624
00:39:49,004 --> 00:39:53,504
buddy of mine. And he's like, me, the engineer. So he asked me, have you heard about this Bitcoin

625
00:39:53,504 --> 00:39:58,264
thing. You know, I've got to buy these Bitcoins in order to buy such and such. And I'm like, I,

626
00:39:58,404 --> 00:40:02,244
I don't know what you're talking about. I have no idea what this Bitcoin is. Um, I don't really

627
00:40:02,244 --> 00:40:06,024
care, man. Like back to whatever fiat stuff I was doing. So completely ignored it, dismissed it.

628
00:40:06,844 --> 00:40:12,004
You know, that's, that's on me. Right. Uh, we, we all wish we would have paid attention to Bitcoin

629
00:40:12,004 --> 00:40:17,184
the first time we heard about it. Very few people actually did. Then it was 2017 and Carla actually

630
00:40:17,184 --> 00:40:20,884
brought it up to me. She brought, you know, have you heard of this Bitcoin thing? Yeah. Yeah. You

631
00:40:20,884 --> 00:40:25,064
know, heard about it. It's been, you know, around you see news articles pop up every once in a while.

632
00:40:25,304 --> 00:40:29,064
I don't really know much about it. Oh, you know, it's like, this was like top of the top of the top

633
00:40:29,064 --> 00:40:33,964
in 2017, like when Bitcoin's like ripping off. And, you know, we're both looking at the price

634
00:40:33,964 --> 00:40:37,564
of Bitcoin and we're like, geez, can't afford a full Bitcoin, you know, and assumed you had to

635
00:40:37,564 --> 00:40:41,764
buy a full Bitcoin, did absolutely zero meaningful research into it. So I always have empathy for

636
00:40:41,764 --> 00:40:45,344
people who, you know, have that same idea that, oh, you have to buy a full Bitcoin. It's like,

637
00:40:45,364 --> 00:40:48,224
no, you don't. You can buy a fraction called a Satoshi. I didn't know that. Cause again,

638
00:40:48,224 --> 00:40:52,864
I didn't put any time into it. So I bought a couple of Litecoin at the top, you know, sold

639
00:40:52,864 --> 00:40:56,344
them a couple of years later at a loss. Cause I don't, I still don't think Litecoin has recovered

640
00:40:56,344 --> 00:41:00,984
to its 2017 top. Carla bought a couple of ETH, you know, like, cause that's what we thought we

641
00:41:00,984 --> 00:41:04,804
could afford. And maybe they'll be worth as much as one Bitcoin is someday, you know, the classic

642
00:41:04,804 --> 00:41:13,164
shit coin trap. And then it was 2020 and we started locking people down. They started sending

643
00:41:13,164 --> 00:41:19,184
out checks. And we both kind of had this like, what the fuck is going on right now? None of this

644
00:41:19,184 --> 00:41:26,164
makes any sense. And we both started kind of looking back into Bitcoin a little bit, like

645
00:41:26,164 --> 00:41:29,784
actually looking into it. I can't even say looking back into it because neither of us really went deep

646
00:41:29,784 --> 00:41:34,684
into it at all, either of the times we'd heard about it before. And so really started taking the

647
00:41:34,684 --> 00:41:46,296
time and you know listening to podcasts and reading the Bitcoin standard then things start to click And then you start spending some time on Bitcoin Twitter and you know following calling different people and learning from know listening to podcasts and reading the Bitcoin standard then things start to click and you start spending some time on Bitcoin Twitter and you know following different people and learning from them listening to podcasts And so we really we really went down

648
00:41:46,296 --> 00:41:50,676
that rabbit hole together. It was kind of a unique, unique situation. And once we started making

649
00:41:50,676 --> 00:41:55,336
content that just accelerated that process of going deeper down the rabbit hole, really finding

650
00:41:55,336 --> 00:42:00,376
out all the unknown unknowns, you know, the things that you don't know that you don't know. And with

651
00:42:00,376 --> 00:42:04,556
Bitcoin, as we all know, that rabbit hole is deep and there are many winding passageways that

652
00:42:04,556 --> 00:42:09,236
are, you know, go off tangentially from Bitcoin into other directions, whether it be Austrian

653
00:42:09,236 --> 00:42:14,356
economics, energy, just, you know, the nature of the state itself, whatever it might be. So

654
00:42:14,356 --> 00:42:18,416
the other difficulty is like people ask me, okay, you know, again, how do I get my wife into Bitcoin?

655
00:42:18,476 --> 00:42:27,476
I'm like, I don't know. Make her the daughter of parents who grew up in communism and think

656
00:42:27,476 --> 00:42:32,596
communism is horrible and we're communist defectors. That helps. That helps a lot if

657
00:42:32,596 --> 00:42:37,836
She's got a really innate hatred of the state and of communism and totalitarianism.

658
00:42:38,456 --> 00:42:41,716
That's generally helpful for getting somebody to really grok freedom money.

659
00:42:42,476 --> 00:42:48,016
But yeah, I wish I had better advice here to give people because my situation was just fairly unique.

660
00:42:48,016 --> 00:42:52,396
The one thing that I would say is that it's not always just not with Bitcoin, but with anything.

661
00:42:52,956 --> 00:42:56,356
If there's something you really care about that you want your significant other to care about,

662
00:42:57,316 --> 00:43:02,196
the best course of action is not to like browbeat them with it and try to shove it down their throats repeatedly.

663
00:43:02,596 --> 00:43:06,576
And, you know, make it the only thing that you will talk to them about because that's

664
00:43:06,576 --> 00:43:07,396
just going to turn them off.

665
00:43:07,856 --> 00:43:12,376
What will help is you being passionate about it and being ready to answer questions when

666
00:43:12,376 --> 00:43:12,856
they have them.

667
00:43:12,936 --> 00:43:15,036
And this goes for, you know, this goes for spouses.

668
00:43:15,356 --> 00:43:16,916
This goes for friends and family too.

669
00:43:17,476 --> 00:43:21,796
I think that's a big thing that a lot of people realize that myself included on this Bitcoin

670
00:43:21,796 --> 00:43:22,056
journey.

671
00:43:22,116 --> 00:43:25,336
What's the first thing you do once you really start grokking Bitcoin and you're feverishly

672
00:43:25,336 --> 00:43:27,256
excited about it and it's all you can think about?

673
00:43:27,776 --> 00:43:28,976
You want to tell everyone about it.

674
00:43:28,976 --> 00:43:30,836
You know, you want to just tell absolutely everybody.

675
00:43:30,836 --> 00:43:33,616
it's all you're going to talk about with your friends and family. And you know what?

676
00:43:34,156 --> 00:43:37,216
Most of them are just going to be sick and tired of hearing about it from you.

677
00:43:37,396 --> 00:43:41,456
And they're not going to go down the rabbit hole themselves, no matter how compelling an argument

678
00:43:41,456 --> 00:43:45,796
you make. Some of them will, very few though. What ends up working out better is just living

679
00:43:45,796 --> 00:43:50,636
your life, living, you know, living the Bitcoin or life, doing the best you can and being a

680
00:43:50,636 --> 00:43:56,216
resource for them when they eventually do hear about Bitcoin a few more times from news, from

681
00:43:56,216 --> 00:44:00,756
other friends, from whatever it is. And when they start seeing the price go up and wow, that's

682
00:44:00,756 --> 00:44:04,916
weird. It's like, you know, it's, it's 10, you know, 10 times the price it was when so-and-so

683
00:44:04,916 --> 00:44:08,436
first told me about it, what's going on there? Like, that's what eventually brings people over.

684
00:44:08,496 --> 00:44:13,236
That's what gets people orange pilled is, you know, you can't, uh, you can't, you can give

685
00:44:13,236 --> 00:44:16,556
somebody an orange pill, but you can't make them take it. I think it's something we all need to

686
00:44:16,556 --> 00:44:21,396
realize. They have to take it themselves. Uh, they have to be want, they have to want to do

687
00:44:21,396 --> 00:44:27,276
the work to understand it. Yeah. All right. I, I, you know, I want to, before you were in the

688
00:44:27,276 --> 00:44:34,476
Bitcoin couple, you were just Walker. So how did you become one half of the Bitcoin couple? Because

689
00:44:34,476 --> 00:44:38,556
I think, you know, maybe a lot of people, depending on when they found Bitcoin, they find Bitcoin before

690
00:44:38,556 --> 00:44:43,836
they find their partner in life. And they're just not sure how that happens for others, or maybe even

691
00:44:43,836 --> 00:44:46,936
they're wondering how it's going to happen for them. But how did you meet Carla?

692
00:44:47,276 --> 00:44:52,996
Yeah, we met like the first week of college. So we've known each other for a long time now. And we

693
00:44:52,996 --> 00:44:56,936
were, yeah, we were, we were married before we started making Bitcoin content, right? We'd been

694
00:44:56,936 --> 00:45:01,516
together for, you know, engaged for some time before that, you know, dating for some time before

695
00:45:01,516 --> 00:45:06,236
that. So we've, we've known each other for, for a very long time. And I'm not one to give, you know,

696
00:45:06,316 --> 00:45:11,056
relationship advice here. I'm, I'm no expert. We're all just figuring it out. But what I would say

697
00:45:11,056 --> 00:45:16,936
to anyone who is out there, especially, you know, younger guys who are looking for a wife to spend

698
00:45:16,936 --> 00:45:20,536
the rest of their life with is, man, I think it's the most important decision you can make.

699
00:45:20,536 --> 00:45:31,136
I think it is the number one decision you can make beyond your individual career or job opportunities or anything else, who you're going to spend your time with.

700
00:45:31,616 --> 00:45:33,476
Who are you going to spend the rest of your life with?

701
00:45:33,956 --> 00:45:37,996
And hopefully you're going into it with the expectation that you're going to spend the rest of your life with them.

702
00:45:38,036 --> 00:45:40,896
If not, you might want to kind of check your priorities.

703
00:45:41,016 --> 00:45:45,116
If you can't see yourself spending the rest of your life until death do us part, you might want to rethink that.

704
00:45:45,196 --> 00:45:47,576
But I think that it's such an important decision.

705
00:45:47,576 --> 00:45:56,336
And honestly, I don't envy the plight of especially younger guys, younger gals who are trying to date and find people in this environment of dating apps and all that.

706
00:45:56,376 --> 00:45:58,236
I never had to do any of that.

707
00:45:59,036 --> 00:46:07,916
I can imagine that that is fucking exhausting and honestly really difficult in this generation where this, I should say, not even just generation because it's multi-generational.

708
00:46:07,916 --> 00:46:14,996
But in this time where everybody only presents the most polished, perfect version of themselves, it is only looking for the most polished, perfect version of other people.

709
00:46:14,996 --> 00:46:19,436
in this dopamine-charged, gamified online dating,

710
00:46:19,656 --> 00:46:22,316
or not even online, app dating environment.

711
00:46:23,416 --> 00:46:25,856
Man, that's just, that's got to be tough.

712
00:46:26,576 --> 00:46:30,336
But maybe a great place to meet your future Mr. or Mrs.

713
00:46:30,336 --> 00:46:32,816
is at a Bitcoin meetup or a Bitcoin conference.

714
00:46:33,116 --> 00:46:35,136
There are, in fact, women that go to these things.

715
00:46:35,196 --> 00:46:36,436
Yes, the line at the women's room,

716
00:46:36,436 --> 00:46:38,536
a Bitcoin conference is the only place

717
00:46:38,536 --> 00:46:40,096
you'll find a giant line at the men's room

718
00:46:40,096 --> 00:46:41,216
and no line at the women's room.

719
00:46:41,276 --> 00:46:42,436
But that is changing, I think.

720
00:46:42,496 --> 00:46:43,116
That is changing.

721
00:46:43,116 --> 00:46:50,036
and so yeah it's a I'd say you want to find somebody who's who's they don't have to be

722
00:46:50,036 --> 00:46:52,996
perfectly ideologically aligned with you they don't have to be exactly the same as you they

723
00:46:52,996 --> 00:46:57,696
don't have to share all these similarities with you in fact you want somebody who is at least

724
00:46:57,696 --> 00:47:02,056
different enough from you that they're going to be able to help you grow right because you are not

725
00:47:02,056 --> 00:47:06,976
a finished product you are constantly in a state of growth I'm very lucky to have found an incredible

726
00:47:06,976 --> 00:47:12,736
wife in Carla who is now an incredible mother to our son but I would say yeah I don't I don't have

727
00:47:12,736 --> 00:47:16,776
relationship advice. I don't have dating advice. I don't have any of that. I would just say,

728
00:47:16,916 --> 00:47:21,876
be very, be very purposeful about who you decide to spend the rest of your life with. Because

729
00:47:21,876 --> 00:47:29,296
if you find a great, great woman or a great man, if you're a lady, you will, your life will be so

730
00:47:29,296 --> 00:47:33,716
much better for it. And other decisions become a lot easier because you've got somebody else there

731
00:47:33,716 --> 00:47:39,416
to, to, you know, be able to bounce ideas off of like, enough cannot be said for that.

732
00:47:39,416 --> 00:47:42,376
When it comes to Bitcoin, the rules are simple.

733
00:47:42,956 --> 00:47:47,336
Run your own node, hold your own keys, and protect your seed phrase.

734
00:47:47,776 --> 00:47:49,756
That's where MicroSeed comes in.

735
00:47:50,416 --> 00:47:55,016
Unlike bulky backups, MicroSeed is stamped onto a tiny steel washer.

736
00:47:55,716 --> 00:48:01,296
Fireproof, waterproof, and so small you can carry it anywhere or hide it in plain sight.

737
00:48:01,856 --> 00:48:06,956
Go to MicroSeed.io and use the code MATRIX for a discount on your order.

738
00:48:06,956 --> 00:48:14,976
yeah i agree it is the most important decision you'll make maybe how has bitcoin changed you

739
00:48:14,976 --> 00:48:19,396
i mean you grew up you're homeschooled you're kind of going against the grain a little bit already

740
00:48:19,396 --> 00:48:23,376
or a lot you know for some people you'd say maybe it doesn't change them at all maybe it just

741
00:48:23,376 --> 00:48:29,016
enhances them do you think bitcoin has like changed you in any way i think that it has uh

742
00:48:29,016 --> 00:48:35,996
i and i think that it's it's about the process of discovery right i think that one thing i say

743
00:48:35,996 --> 00:48:40,556
Bitcoin fixes a lot, but it doesn't fix you, right? It's not going to fix you as if you are

744
00:48:40,556 --> 00:48:43,796
somehow viewing yourself as deficient in some way. It's not going to fix you. Just you buying Bitcoin

745
00:48:43,796 --> 00:48:46,856
doesn't automatically make you a better person. It doesn't make you holier than now. It doesn't

746
00:48:46,856 --> 00:48:50,876
make you smarter. It doesn't make you anything. Just the act of buying Bitcoin does not do that.

747
00:48:51,516 --> 00:48:56,416
The act of discovery, the act of learning, the quest for knowledge that I think Bitcoin inspires,

748
00:48:57,136 --> 00:49:01,536
that is what changes people. That is what changed me. It sent me down so many different rabbit holes.

749
00:49:01,936 --> 00:49:05,956
It's made me read so much more. It's made me listen so much more. It's made me learn

750
00:49:05,956 --> 00:49:12,316
so much more, it's made me question things. I think that before Bitcoin, I very much suffered

751
00:49:12,316 --> 00:49:19,376
a lot more from both the Dunning-Kruger effect and also Gelman amnesia. Both of those syndromes

752
00:49:19,376 --> 00:49:27,576
I was suffering from to a certain extent. And I think it's because so much in the world is obscured.

753
00:49:28,216 --> 00:49:34,696
So many of our systems are so opaque. The way that things actually work is hidden behind so

754
00:49:34,696 --> 00:49:40,016
many different layers and so much jargon and so many academics and, and just, and just so much

755
00:49:40,016 --> 00:49:45,076
noise, but like there is signal. You have to be able to find it. I think finding Bitcoin and

756
00:49:45,076 --> 00:49:48,616
learning about Bitcoin and going down the tangential rabbit holes that are involved there,

757
00:49:48,616 --> 00:49:54,216
that helps you find signal. The world is very noisy, but that helps you find some signal because

758
00:49:54,216 --> 00:49:58,676
now you at least have, you have something fundamental that you are gaining a better

759
00:49:58,676 --> 00:50:02,096
understanding of. You're getting a better understanding of money and how money works

760
00:50:02,096 --> 00:50:06,196
and energy and how energy works and time and how you should treat it.

761
00:50:06,656 --> 00:50:08,556
And once you start thinking about those things more,

762
00:50:09,416 --> 00:50:13,436
the questions that you need to ask in other domains, I believe, become clearer.

763
00:50:13,716 --> 00:50:19,356
It becomes easier to start to parse the signal from the noise in everything you're doing.

764
00:50:19,916 --> 00:50:22,416
And again, this requires you to still remain curious.

765
00:50:22,776 --> 00:50:24,316
I think the worst thing you can do is say,

766
00:50:24,836 --> 00:50:28,456
well, I've found Bitcoin and now I know what money is.

767
00:50:28,456 --> 00:50:32,156
And now I know that I must, all of my other previously held opinions must also be correct

768
00:50:32,156 --> 00:50:33,976
because I now have the correct opinion about this.

769
00:50:34,356 --> 00:50:35,036
It's not the case.

770
00:50:35,116 --> 00:50:36,336
You're probably wrong about a lot of things.

771
00:50:36,416 --> 00:50:40,496
I know that I was and still am and certainly will be long into the future.

772
00:50:41,016 --> 00:50:43,076
We're all works in progress, or at least we should be.

773
00:50:43,076 --> 00:50:47,276
You should do whatever you can to try and grow and learn and expand your mind and expand

774
00:50:47,276 --> 00:50:48,816
your horizons every single day.

775
00:50:48,916 --> 00:50:55,276
But I think that, again, that act of discovery in Bitcoin is what is so powerful because you

776
00:50:55,276 --> 00:51:01,456
realize, it's that realization with Bitcoin, that you realize, I never understood how money really

777
00:51:01,456 --> 00:51:07,956
worked. I never really understood what money could be. And now that I understand a bit better

778
00:51:07,956 --> 00:51:14,396
how money works, how Bitcoin works, and how fiat money works, and I understand that what the

779
00:51:14,396 --> 00:51:18,876
implications of that are, what the implications of this broken monetary system are for the incentives,

780
00:51:19,476 --> 00:51:24,116
that this is in fact the disease that was underlying all of the rot that we see. Every

781
00:51:24,116 --> 00:51:28,416
other symptom that you see people talking about, every other problem that you see people talking

782
00:51:28,416 --> 00:51:32,976
about, it's a symptom of the disease. It's not the disease itself. The disease is that the money

783
00:51:32,976 --> 00:51:37,616
is broken, the incentives are broken, and everything breaks down because of that. This is how

784
00:51:37,616 --> 00:51:44,596
civilizations fall. Every revolution is ultimately a monetary revolution, right? It comes back down to

785
00:51:44,596 --> 00:51:53,756
a breaking of the monetary order. It comes back to the debasement of money ruins so, so many things

786
00:51:53,756 --> 00:52:01,076
but even though that problem like that disease is central to it it's the thing we learn least about

787
00:52:01,076 --> 00:52:05,996
growing up like being homeschooled didn't help me there at all right like parents were both

788
00:52:05,996 --> 00:52:13,276
english majors like they weren't you know uh savvy uh you know savvy finance people or anything like

789
00:52:13,276 --> 00:52:17,256
that they they did a great job to work hard and provide an amazing life for me and my sister and

790
00:52:17,256 --> 00:52:22,096
i'm forever forever grateful for that but i didn't just because i was homeschooled didn't mean i like

791
00:52:22,096 --> 00:52:26,136
you know, learned about Austrian economics when I was young. I wish I would have. I can't wait to,

792
00:52:26,236 --> 00:52:31,976
you know, uh, you know, read, read some, some Hayek and Mises and Rothbard to my son already

793
00:52:31,976 --> 00:52:35,976
have a little bit, uh, doesn't really quite crock it yet, but I think he will soon, maybe by age

794
00:52:35,976 --> 00:52:41,056
three or so, uh, he'll be reading it on his own. But I think that that's really the fundamental

795
00:52:41,056 --> 00:52:45,156
thing is that learning about Bitcoin and going down that Bitcoin rabbit hole makes you realize

796
00:52:45,156 --> 00:52:49,716
that if you did not, if you did not, in fact, understand how something that we use every day,

797
00:52:49,716 --> 00:52:54,676
something that's seemingly so obvious and easy and simple as money, if you didn't understand how

798
00:52:54,676 --> 00:53:02,476
that works, what else don't you understand? What else is hidden from you? What else are you missing?

799
00:53:02,896 --> 00:53:08,056
And it turns out you're probably missing a lot. So for me, that was the biggest thing is realizing

800
00:53:08,056 --> 00:53:14,576
how much I did not know and how much all the things I thought I knew were based on these

801
00:53:14,576 --> 00:53:18,816
assumptions that were all built on top of this foundation of quicksand.

802
00:53:18,816 --> 00:53:23,776
It was built on top of nothing. And how many things I was just believing, because that's what,

803
00:53:24,336 --> 00:53:27,996
that's, that's just the obvious thing. It's what any prudent person would believe. You know,

804
00:53:28,316 --> 00:53:32,016
you realize how much bullshit is out there, basically, Cedric. That's what it comes down to.

805
00:53:32,396 --> 00:53:38,736
Yeah, no, I hear you. I want to riff a little bit about podcasting. What is your goal with your show?

806
00:53:38,916 --> 00:53:45,776
My goal is to try and educate as many people as I can that do not already know about Bitcoin

807
00:53:45,776 --> 00:53:51,796
one. Also to provide a forum for Bitcoiners to be able to, for people who are already down the

808
00:53:51,796 --> 00:53:57,056
rabbit hole, to learn more, to speak if they're, you know, if they want to come on my show and

809
00:53:57,056 --> 00:54:01,996
speak about things, I want to provide an avenue by which we can have important conversations.

810
00:54:02,096 --> 00:54:06,196
And I know, you know, people are always like another fucking Bitcoin podcast. Like,

811
00:54:06,256 --> 00:54:09,756
how many times can you talk about Bitcoin? Right. And it's like, well, it turns out a lot because

812
00:54:09,756 --> 00:54:14,836
it turns out money touches so many things. And so my goal is ultimately education.

813
00:54:15,776 --> 00:54:19,456
But also I think for people that are already Bitcoiners, like I'm speaking for myself here

814
00:54:19,456 --> 00:54:21,756
too, it's like, it's a sanity check.

815
00:54:21,756 --> 00:54:25,256
Like listening to Bitcoin podcasts is a sanity check for Bitcoiners.

816
00:54:25,376 --> 00:54:28,416
Like letting you, it reminds you, you're not the only crazy one.

817
00:54:28,476 --> 00:54:29,516
In fact, you're not crazy at all.

818
00:54:29,616 --> 00:54:31,736
Like the system is, that's what's crazy.

819
00:54:31,876 --> 00:54:35,916
And so for me, at least, I think for a lot of folks, especially during the pandemic, when

820
00:54:35,916 --> 00:54:41,756
everything was just so nuts, having this outlet where you could learn and hear conversations

821
00:54:41,756 --> 00:54:44,676
that like where people, it sounds like they're speaking, you know, right to you.

822
00:54:44,676 --> 00:54:49,416
that was really powerful for me. And I think powerful for a lot of people and hopefully still

823
00:54:49,416 --> 00:54:56,496
is. But ultimately my goal is I, I want to do what I can to help more people find Bitcoin.

824
00:54:57,036 --> 00:55:02,976
I hope that I can do that. I hope that through, uh, through my show, at least if even one more

825
00:55:02,976 --> 00:55:08,696
person decides to start saving in Bitcoin, decides to change their life by learning about Bitcoin,

826
00:55:08,856 --> 00:55:12,916
my show will have been a success. Like if you, and hopefully it's quite a lot more than one,

827
00:55:12,916 --> 00:55:17,136
But even one, I think that that matters and that ripple effect matters.

828
00:55:17,996 --> 00:55:23,196
This is why I encourage more people to start podcasts or just start making any sort of Bitcoin content.

829
00:55:23,296 --> 00:55:25,336
It doesn't have to be a podcast if you're not into that kind of thing.

830
00:55:25,836 --> 00:55:27,476
You can make any sort of Bitcoin content you want.

831
00:55:27,876 --> 00:55:32,856
Julian Figueroa is doing an amazing job of this with the exit manual that he's doing through GetBaseTV, the DC session.

832
00:55:32,928 --> 00:55:38,468
legendary, you know, it needs no introduction. The educational work that he has done has helped

833
00:55:38,468 --> 00:55:43,708
so many people, like countless, countless people. I can't even fathom how many, like you have the

834
00:55:43,708 --> 00:55:49,928
potential to help somebody, to help somebody else who is now where you once were. And I think that's,

835
00:55:49,988 --> 00:55:53,948
that's really the thing. It's, it's in a way it's trying to, to pay it forward a little bit,

836
00:55:53,948 --> 00:55:59,768
right? Cause you never know who you may be able to, to help. Like you never know what's going to

837
00:55:59,768 --> 00:56:06,228
resonate with someone. You never know whose voice, whose attitude, whose persona, whose manner of

838
00:56:06,228 --> 00:56:10,428
speaking, even like little things make a difference for people. Maybe, you know, they see something of

839
00:56:10,428 --> 00:56:16,088
themselves in you. And that is what allows them to say, okay, like, you know, I like the way this

840
00:56:16,088 --> 00:56:19,548
guy thinks. I like the way he talks. I like the way, you know, conducts himself. And this is

841
00:56:19,548 --> 00:56:24,088
somebody I want to try and learn with, you know? And so for me, that's what it comes down to. It

842
00:56:24,088 --> 00:56:26,228
It comes down to education.

843
00:56:26,948 --> 00:56:29,668
And then beyond that too, selfishly,

844
00:56:30,108 --> 00:56:32,908
it's a great way for me to talk to really amazing people.

845
00:56:33,428 --> 00:56:35,828
That's one of the best things about Bitcoin podcasting

846
00:56:35,828 --> 00:56:38,428
is you get to talk to some really incredible, inspiring people

847
00:56:38,428 --> 00:56:40,508
who through those conversations,

848
00:56:40,688 --> 00:56:43,628
you yourself become a little bit better, a little bit wiser, hopefully,

849
00:56:44,348 --> 00:56:46,468
make you question your own preconceived notions.

850
00:56:46,468 --> 00:56:50,168
I think that that's a beautiful side effect of Bitcoin podcasting

851
00:56:50,168 --> 00:56:52,588
is you just get to have amazing conversations.

852
00:56:52,588 --> 00:56:58,628
like that's uh so selfishly that's that's why i love doing it unselfishly i hope i hope that

853
00:56:58,628 --> 00:57:05,128
people listen to it they find it and that it helps them to go deeper down that bitcoin rabbit hole or

854
00:57:05,128 --> 00:57:09,848
to orange pill a family member or whatever it might be maybe orange pull their wife who can say

855
00:57:09,848 --> 00:57:16,948
maybe not maybe that's that's what i hope though i hope it's the the small thing that we can all do

856
00:57:16,948 --> 00:57:22,108
to try and forward this mission is to to just bring a couple more people on board the life raft

857
00:57:22,108 --> 00:57:27,908
with us. So I hope that I'm able to do that. I'm going to keep trying for, for until they shut me

858
00:57:27,908 --> 00:57:33,488
down. So, yeah, I mean, I agree that, you know, I think everyone probably feels like they're always

859
00:57:33,488 --> 00:57:41,388
late to a lot of things, whether it's like the.com era, social media, mobile. I remember even in 2000,

860
00:57:41,528 --> 00:57:45,708
2003, me and my best friend, we wanted to open a brewery and we were like, we don't know how to

861
00:57:45,708 --> 00:57:50,368
make beer. We don't own a brewery. There's all, you know, but we, we didn't realize you could just

862
00:57:50,368 --> 00:57:55,308
do things. We thought we were late then. And the explosion in craft beer since then, you know,

863
00:57:55,368 --> 00:58:00,168
I went to Florida in 2007, 2008 to visit my parents. And I was like, oh, it's already too

864
00:58:00,168 --> 00:58:02,768
late here. And then there's like, you know, millions of breweries there. And you always

865
00:58:02,768 --> 00:58:07,288
think you're late. And even through watching the beer industry for decades, I thought I was

866
00:58:07,288 --> 00:58:13,188
late and it was always early. Maybe now it's saturated. But so thinking about, you know,

867
00:58:13,188 --> 00:58:20,008
the show, did you have full confidence or what do you make of the phenomena of how large your show

868
00:58:20,008 --> 00:58:26,228
is now in terms of a platform and being able to speak to people. What is that like for people who

869
00:58:26,228 --> 00:58:31,528
are like, should I start a show? I remember when I started my show five years ago, my personal

870
00:58:31,528 --> 00:58:36,448
profile had a thousand followers. And I looked at someone like Princey, Daniel Prince, who has a

871
00:58:36,448 --> 00:58:41,708
great show. And he had like 4,000 followers. I was like, wow. In my mind, I was like, if I could

872
00:58:41,708 --> 00:58:48,148
just quadruple my followers, I've made it. You know, John Vallis had 19,000 followers at the time.

873
00:58:48,148 --> 00:58:55,408
And it just, the idea of kind of 10Xing, 20Xing the show, the platform, and it's something I still don't think about.

874
00:58:55,488 --> 00:58:57,108
I try not to think about the audience.

875
00:58:57,248 --> 00:58:58,908
I mean, do you think about the audience?

876
00:58:59,048 --> 00:59:00,548
What do you think about having an audience?

877
00:59:00,748 --> 00:59:05,648
And this idea of kind of going from zero to one, did you have a lot of confidence in it?

878
00:59:05,808 --> 00:59:07,188
What's that experience been like?

879
00:59:07,188 --> 00:59:13,928
I think about the audience from the perspective of the larger my audience grows, the greater the network effect of the message is,

880
00:59:14,268 --> 00:59:18,108
and the greater chance I have of getting that message in front of more and more people.

881
00:59:18,148 --> 00:59:22,968
and this is you know like honestly one of the reasons i started i just hired somebody to to

882
00:59:22,968 --> 00:59:28,248
help me out on on youtube is because like youtube is an area where i just i just i just hate playing

883
00:59:28,248 --> 00:59:33,748
that game but that's also top of the funnel that's that is top of the funnel for people getting into

884
00:59:33,748 --> 00:59:39,488
bitcoin what the algorithm serves up to them right like growing your rss feed you know growing the

885
00:59:39,488 --> 00:59:44,368
audio side that's that's super super important and that's like i feel like i view that as for

886
00:59:44,368 --> 00:59:49,508
like the diehard fans, right? But a lot of people, it's about, is the algorithm going to serve them

887
00:59:49,508 --> 00:59:54,348
up this thing that might change their life? That's where the algorithm can be a positive thing,

888
00:59:54,388 --> 00:59:58,648
right? Because it just so happens you watched such and such video and such and such video,

889
00:59:58,648 --> 01:00:03,708
and there was a little confluence of different keywords there that then served you up with this

890
01:00:03,708 --> 01:00:07,528
Bitcoin podcast video. And that sent you down the rabbit hole. You never know what it's going to be.

891
01:00:08,088 --> 01:00:11,268
So I think about the audience in that way, because the larger it gets, the greater the chance it is

892
01:00:11,268 --> 01:00:14,848
that it continues to grow larger and get out in front of more people. I don't think about it from

893
01:00:14,848 --> 01:00:20,308
the perspective of like, I don't have like, you know, metrics that I'm trying to, that I'm trying

894
01:00:20,308 --> 01:00:24,828
to hit or things like that. It's just, it's just, I would like to keep growing it so that it can

895
01:00:24,828 --> 01:00:30,868
reach more people. From the, in terms of like kind of going, let's say zero to one, let's say,

896
01:00:30,968 --> 01:00:35,188
or just initial growth, that's the hardest part. I mean, that's the hardest part. Some,

897
01:00:35,288 --> 01:00:39,168
there's some crazy statistic I'm going to botch it, but it's directionally correct.

898
01:00:39,168 --> 01:00:45,628
it's like 90 some percent of podcasts don't make it past 12 or 13 episodes something like that

899
01:00:45,628 --> 01:00:50,728
like the vast majority of podcasts just they you know people start they're super stoked they've got

900
01:00:50,728 --> 01:00:55,088
an awesome podcast idea they start making the podcast they get you know a dozen episodes in

901
01:00:55,088 --> 01:00:59,928
and they're like i mean nobody's listening to this i give up you know and you know how this is like

902
01:00:59,928 --> 01:01:05,128
the you know first few episodes you make there's a couple people you know a couple people tuning in

903
01:01:05,128 --> 01:01:08,648
And you're like, wow, you know, like you see like 10 people that listen to an episode.

904
01:01:08,748 --> 01:01:10,968
You're like, oh, 10 people listen to this.

905
01:01:11,008 --> 01:01:11,628
That's incredible.

906
01:01:12,008 --> 01:01:12,808
You see like 100 people.

907
01:01:12,868 --> 01:01:16,188
Holy shit, 100 people, like 1,000 people, 2,000 people.

908
01:01:16,188 --> 01:01:17,748
That's as many people as are in my hometown.

909
01:01:17,748 --> 01:01:20,548
Like, holy shit, it's like my entire town listening to this podcast.

910
01:01:20,548 --> 01:01:21,368
That's insane.

911
01:01:22,168 --> 01:01:24,728
And so it's all relative, right?

912
01:01:25,308 --> 01:01:30,148
And I think that it's also important for people to realize that you don't have to have a,

913
01:01:30,148 --> 01:01:34,648
like a giant, giant audience to still be effective.

914
01:01:35,128 --> 01:01:39,648
to still be effective in the sense that you are providing value and that you are reaching people.

915
01:01:40,468 --> 01:01:45,388
Joe Rogan, biggest platform on the planet. I'm never going to be Joe Rogan. You're never going

916
01:01:45,388 --> 01:01:48,988
to be Joe Rogan. You know, no Bitcoin power. Nobody's going to be Joe Rogan because he's Joe

917
01:01:48,988 --> 01:01:53,628
Rogan. Like you're not going to catch him, but you don't need to be that big to be able to have

918
01:01:53,628 --> 01:01:59,908
a massive impact on somebody's life. You can have a small audience, but a dedicated audience who are

919
01:01:59,908 --> 01:02:04,148
our diehard fans. And that, that like, that's enough.

920
01:02:04,148 --> 01:02:07,988
It depends what you're looking for personally, I think. And for me, again,

921
01:02:07,988 --> 01:02:09,248
it always just came back to the,

922
01:02:09,908 --> 01:02:12,888
and this is the reason Carl and I made made videos in the first place.

923
01:02:13,488 --> 01:02:16,208
It wasn't to like, wasn't to make money. Like we weren't,

924
01:02:16,288 --> 01:02:17,988
we weren't doing sponsored videos thing.

925
01:02:18,028 --> 01:02:22,548
We did maybe one or two sponsored videos and like out of hundreds and hundreds

926
01:02:22,548 --> 01:02:25,168
of videos, just cause somebody reached out and we were like, it was a, you know,

927
01:02:25,168 --> 01:02:28,148
a friend and they're like, would you want to do this? We said, okay. Yeah.

928
01:02:28,148 --> 01:02:31,548
We never really thought about that, but sure. Like that wasn't why we were doing, we did it

929
01:02:31,548 --> 01:02:36,708
because we wanted to hopefully do a small part, our small part to educate just a couple more people

930
01:02:36,708 --> 01:02:40,928
or to dispel a little bit of FUD. We went on a crusade against Greenpeace. You know, I mean,

931
01:02:40,948 --> 01:02:46,228
we like those fuckers. But we made it our mission, you know, to FUD bust Greenpeace,

932
01:02:46,368 --> 01:02:51,368
not because somebody was paying us, you know, we didn't get $5 million from Ripple like Greenpeace

933
01:02:51,368 --> 01:02:55,908
did. No, we were doing it for free because we care about Bitcoin and we care about the message

934
01:02:55,908 --> 01:02:57,568
of what Bitcoin can do for people.

935
01:02:57,848 --> 01:03:00,068
And so I think where people run into trouble

936
01:03:00,068 --> 01:03:02,128
is if you, one, think that your show

937
01:03:02,128 --> 01:03:05,148
is going to be some overnight success

938
01:03:05,148 --> 01:03:07,848
and have millions of listeners,

939
01:03:08,128 --> 01:03:11,428
it's just probably not going to happen that way.

940
01:03:11,748 --> 01:03:13,428
It's gonna be a slow and steady grind.

941
01:03:13,588 --> 01:03:15,048
Some people, yeah, some people may have

942
01:03:15,048 --> 01:03:16,748
this astronomical trajectory.

943
01:03:17,248 --> 01:03:20,308
I think in the Bitcoin space, that's harder to do

944
01:03:20,308 --> 01:03:21,988
because it's still a niche.

945
01:03:22,528 --> 01:03:23,868
It won't be a niche forever,

946
01:03:23,868 --> 01:03:29,328
but it's still a niche now. It's like still the majority of the world doesn't know about Bitcoin.

947
01:03:29,708 --> 01:03:36,948
We're so early. Bitcoin is a roughly $2 trillion asset. There's $1,000 trillion worth of global

948
01:03:36,948 --> 01:03:42,868
asset value out there. We're at 0.2% of global asset penetration. We are not even close. We're

949
01:03:42,868 --> 01:03:47,768
not even in the first inning. We're still warming up. We're still jogging the bases. We're just

950
01:03:47,768 --> 01:03:53,268
barely getting started. We're at less than a percent of people own Bitcoin around the world,

951
01:03:53,268 --> 01:03:59,568
like far less than a percent. We're not even close. So given that we are so early, we're also

952
01:03:59,568 --> 01:04:04,288
very early to Bitcoin podcasting. And so I would say you have to be realistic about the total scope

953
01:04:04,288 --> 01:04:08,708
of your reach. Somebody like Peter McCormack has been able, and shout out to Peter, one of my

954
01:04:08,708 --> 01:04:13,228
favorite people, just an awesome dude. His podcast was the first one I ever listened to, first Bitcoin

955
01:04:13,228 --> 01:04:18,348
podcast I ever listened to, Guy Swans being the second. That was like my perfect, you know,

956
01:04:18,348 --> 01:04:24,828
double punch. But he's been able to really actually, I think, do a great job of pivoting

957
01:04:24,828 --> 01:04:30,068
to go outside of the Bitcoin echo chamber. And now he focuses on the UK and the political.

958
01:04:30,648 --> 01:04:35,748
He still slips Bitcoin in there. Bitcoin's still the heartbeat, but he has now expanded that

959
01:04:35,748 --> 01:04:40,628
audience. I think he probably hit the maximum that you could, at least within the Bitcoin-only

960
01:04:40,628 --> 01:04:45,428
type content, right? If you want to talk about crypto and all that stuff, there's plenty of

961
01:04:45,428 --> 01:04:50,808
DGENs out there, but we don't want to do that, right? We want to focus on Bitcoin only. So I

962
01:04:50,808 --> 01:04:55,968
think you have to be realistic about what the potential growth is, but you also have to be

963
01:04:55,968 --> 01:05:01,708
mindful of the fact that even if you don't have a ton of people listening, you can still have a

964
01:05:01,708 --> 01:05:08,408
massive impact on those people who do. And to me, at least that's enough. Like maybe I'll Peter

965
01:05:08,408 --> 01:05:14,668
McCormack pivot into a political show at some point too, you know, but, and I don't really like

966
01:05:14,668 --> 01:05:19,548
wrestling with the pigs as much. He's good at it. He's great at it. He's the master. But for me,

967
01:05:19,588 --> 01:05:22,348
it's like, I like to talk about Bitcoin. So I'm going to keep doing that.

968
01:05:22,628 --> 01:05:27,608
Oh, Peter's great. I mean, he really built an empire. He was one of the first show I listened

969
01:05:27,608 --> 01:05:39,352
to was Peter and Marty Bent and Stefan Lavera Peter was traveling the world It was very kind of experiential to kind of hear his journey He be in different cities interviewing different people He like the Michael Jordan

970
01:05:39,352 --> 01:05:40,572
Football club and everything too.

971
01:05:41,012 --> 01:05:42,112
Yeah, football club.

972
01:05:42,312 --> 01:05:43,912
And congrats to Peter.

973
01:05:44,212 --> 01:05:44,772
Great work.

974
01:05:45,192 --> 01:05:47,392
Well, it was an interesting part of my Peter story.

975
01:05:47,392 --> 01:05:50,692
So I remember I had lots of reason to start a podcast.

976
01:05:50,972 --> 01:05:52,052
This interview is not about me.

977
01:05:52,232 --> 01:05:57,352
But the final straw was after I had sent my wife a few Peter McCormick episodes

978
01:05:57,352 --> 01:05:59,852
I thought would really be great for her and I to share.

979
01:06:00,132 --> 01:06:03,332
She started listening to Peter on her own and I'd come home from work and

980
01:06:03,332 --> 01:06:06,492
she'd be in the kitchen and be like, Oh, this is great podcast host.

981
01:06:06,572 --> 01:06:09,012
And I was like, all right, fuck this. I'm throwing my hat in the ring.

982
01:06:09,252 --> 01:06:13,412
Maybe you'll listen to my show. And then, you know, I think,

983
01:06:13,492 --> 01:06:17,872
I think I drunk DM'd Pierre like midnight on a Saturday night. Like, you know,

984
01:06:17,872 --> 01:06:20,792
I want to start a podcast. Would you be like my first guest?

985
01:06:20,792 --> 01:06:23,932
And he was 8am on Sunday morning. He was like, yeah, how about this week?

986
01:06:24,292 --> 01:06:25,512
And I had to throw a show together.

987
01:06:25,512 --> 01:06:31,012
And I remember I released four episodes on the very first day I dropped with Pierre in there.

988
01:06:31,032 --> 01:06:35,112
And I think I got like 54 spins and downloads across all four.

989
01:06:35,192 --> 01:06:36,752
And I was just like, I guess we're done here.

990
01:06:37,352 --> 01:06:38,752
I guess this is not happening.

991
01:06:38,752 --> 01:06:44,032
But, you know, I stuck with it and grinded until I got 100 an episode and 1,000 and et cetera.

992
01:06:44,152 --> 01:06:53,672
But is there anyone that was on your bucket list that you were like, if I start a Bitcoin podcast, I have to, you know, for my own gratification,

993
01:06:53,672 --> 01:06:56,792
I would want to talk to have this person on the show, these people.

994
01:06:56,792 --> 01:06:59,992
And did you get to talk to any of them and who's still remaining?

995
01:07:00,292 --> 01:07:03,512
Honestly, one of the people that I always wanted to be able to talk to,

996
01:07:03,572 --> 01:07:07,432
or I should say two of the people are Jeff Booth and Preston Pish,

997
01:07:07,552 --> 01:07:11,612
just because I like really look up to those guys and they're awesome dudes.

998
01:07:11,692 --> 01:07:15,272
I'd gotten a chance to meet them, meet them, you know,

999
01:07:15,632 --> 01:07:18,772
a couple of times kind of, you know, briefly prior to starting the podcast,

1000
01:07:18,772 --> 01:07:22,492
just again, because of Carl and I making content and, you know,

1001
01:07:22,492 --> 01:07:26,252
they found our videos, you know, got to say, you know, hello to them at a couple of conferences,

1002
01:07:26,412 --> 01:07:32,152
you know, nothing like crazy though. And then they were both two of the first guests on my show

1003
01:07:32,152 --> 01:07:37,652
and said yes immediately. Both took time out of their busy schedules. They both, I just had,

1004
01:07:37,832 --> 01:07:41,852
I just had both of them on again, actually within the last couple of weeks, I just released the Jeff

1005
01:07:41,852 --> 01:07:48,032
episode, Preston one. I just talked to him, what? Yes, yesterday. That'll be coming out soon. And so,

1006
01:07:48,032 --> 01:07:51,792
and I've had them both on like several times throughout the course of this

1007
01:07:51,792 --> 01:07:54,412
podcast. And now they've both become like what I consider really,

1008
01:07:54,732 --> 01:07:57,472
really great friends, which is, which is an amazing thing.

1009
01:07:57,472 --> 01:07:57,952
It's like some,

1010
01:07:58,072 --> 01:08:02,652
you see these people that you really look up to and learn so much from,

1011
01:08:02,712 --> 01:08:06,732
and I still learn so much from both of them. And then to see like, wow,

1012
01:08:06,872 --> 01:08:08,852
not only do you get to interview them,

1013
01:08:08,872 --> 01:08:11,772
but you are able to actually become, become friends with these people.

1014
01:08:11,872 --> 01:08:14,592
Call these like, that's, that's an amazing thing about Bitcoin.

1015
01:08:14,652 --> 01:08:17,492
It will not always be this way with Bitcoin when Bitcoin is,

1016
01:08:17,492 --> 01:08:24,612
more normalized, when Bitcoin is more mainstream, it's, you know, how long do Bitcoin conferences

1017
01:08:24,612 --> 01:08:28,692
keep going on? Right. When it's, when it's just like, you know, you don't have internet conferences

1018
01:08:28,692 --> 01:08:32,632
anymore in that same way. Right. And then again, you have gold conferences still, and gold's been

1019
01:08:32,632 --> 01:08:36,812
around for 5,000 years. So you know what, maybe, maybe we got at least 5,000 years of conferences.

1020
01:08:37,172 --> 01:08:42,932
I'm not sure, but, but it's amazing that right now where we're at, this is still this niche

1021
01:08:42,932 --> 01:08:47,012
industry, this niche community. I know people don't like calling it a community, but for lack

1022
01:08:47,012 --> 01:08:51,612
of a better word, right? Happy to hear alternate suggestions for that. So those were two people who

1023
01:08:51,612 --> 01:08:58,052
I was really excited to speak with and, uh, and was able to have on very early. And now again,

1024
01:08:58,052 --> 01:09:02,972
I've had on multiple times since learned something new from these guys every time, uh, respect them

1025
01:09:02,972 --> 01:09:08,472
both a lot as, uh, both, you know, businessmen and Bitcoiners and thinkers and, uh, and fathers

1026
01:09:08,472 --> 01:09:12,992
and family men too. You know, it's, it's cool. There's a lot of great examples out there in the

1027
01:09:12,992 --> 01:09:16,332
Bitcoin space. So yeah, those were two people, those, those, those dreams have already come true.

1028
01:09:16,332 --> 01:09:21,052
I guess I got to, I got to find a new one, you know, got to, got to find a new, a new white whale

1029
01:09:21,052 --> 01:09:28,032
to, to slay. If, uh, I think of Bitcoin, maybe I, I think of a culturally more like maybe hip hop

1030
01:09:28,032 --> 01:09:32,972
and even the dollar. So I don't think that like, there are conferences now about the dollar. People

1031
01:09:32,972 --> 01:09:37,032
aren't like, we love fiat, but there might be conferences about how to like make money off the

1032
01:09:37,032 --> 01:09:42,032
dollar or have instruments that are tied or, so I'd imagine that as Bitcoin becomes more ubiquitous

1033
01:09:42,032 --> 01:09:46,512
and mainstream, it might burn out culturally, like in hip hop, like where people aren't

1034
01:09:46,512 --> 01:09:48,792
going to, like now they would wear a Bitcoin sign.

1035
01:09:48,892 --> 01:09:51,532
But in the future, I don't think you'll wear your Bitcoin sign, like you wouldn't wear

1036
01:09:51,532 --> 01:09:52,232
a dollar sign.

1037
01:09:52,592 --> 01:09:56,912
And then I think the conferences will become more mainstream where they're about like lending

1038
01:09:56,912 --> 01:09:59,472
your Bitcoin or borrowing against your Bitcoin.

1039
01:09:59,812 --> 01:10:00,172
Specialized.

1040
01:10:00,532 --> 01:10:00,972
Yeah.

1041
01:10:01,032 --> 01:10:02,452
Or for Bitcoin investors.

1042
01:10:02,452 --> 01:10:06,452
And then there'll be like the breakaway, like the Burning Man Bitcoin for like, you know,

1043
01:10:06,492 --> 01:10:08,572
the real Bitcoiners and the Maxis.

1044
01:10:08,732 --> 01:10:10,432
And they won't even announce these events.

1045
01:10:10,432 --> 01:10:13,232
They'll just be like in the know, you know, peer to peer.

1046
01:10:13,472 --> 01:10:14,632
But who knows?

1047
01:10:15,332 --> 01:10:21,232
Can I ask you who was or is your white whale for a guest?

1048
01:10:21,452 --> 01:10:24,152
Well, before I started the show, if you want to ask it from that perspective,

1049
01:10:24,572 --> 01:10:27,992
I was like, I want to interview Pierre Richard.

1050
01:10:28,212 --> 01:10:29,512
He was sort of like my Morpheus.

1051
01:10:30,252 --> 01:10:33,972
American HODL was really big, you know.

1052
01:10:34,092 --> 01:10:35,672
And so there were a few like that.

1053
01:10:35,732 --> 01:10:38,472
Bitcoin Tina, I guess that's a whale I haven't landed.

1054
01:10:38,472 --> 01:10:44,312
I've actually gotten, I put up a tweet and Bitcoin Tina DMed me.

1055
01:10:44,472 --> 01:10:46,452
He said, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

1056
01:10:46,612 --> 01:10:48,352
You're a fucking moron like all of them.

1057
01:10:48,972 --> 01:10:51,292
And then I said, oh, you're right.

1058
01:10:51,472 --> 01:10:51,772
Oops.

1059
01:10:51,832 --> 01:10:53,632
And he was like, can I call you?

1060
01:10:54,192 --> 01:11:00,212
And then we talked for like an hour just offline before he had to go catch a train to work.

1061
01:11:00,852 --> 01:11:02,112
And for me, that was kind of epic.

1062
01:11:02,232 --> 01:11:04,352
It wasn't recorded, but he's someone.

1063
01:11:04,352 --> 01:11:09,072
uh it's really those are like american how bitcoin tina pierre these were the people that

1064
01:11:09,072 --> 01:11:14,292
orange pilled me the most um there's been a lot that have kind of come after that maybe i didn't

1065
01:11:14,292 --> 01:11:20,232
know before the show started you know like maybe michael saylor was a big one um you know jeff

1066
01:11:20,232 --> 01:11:25,072
booth was later on but that was great and jeff was like episode 27 and that was like a real kind

1067
01:11:25,072 --> 01:11:32,632
of level up for the show you know but uh who's still left um well who who's left for you like

1068
01:11:32,632 --> 01:11:38,752
who would be, you know, maybe a huge Bitcoiner and maybe a huge no, not huge. What would be like

1069
01:11:38,752 --> 01:11:44,792
the, a no corner you would really love to interview? That's tricky. Um, no coiner. I mean,

1070
01:11:44,872 --> 01:11:50,812
hell, I'd love to talk to Jerome Powell. You know, if we're really like, if I'm shooting my shot,

1071
01:11:50,912 --> 01:11:55,192
I think that'd be fascinating. I think it would be fascinating to talk to him, especially after

1072
01:11:55,192 --> 01:12:00,632
he's gone from the fed. I think it would be fascinating to talk to a federal reserve, you

1073
01:12:00,632 --> 01:12:04,072
the chair of the Fed, I think that would be illuminating,

1074
01:12:04,132 --> 01:12:06,192
especially if we could get a little drunk.

1075
01:12:06,352 --> 01:12:09,692
We could get him loosened up a bit, get him to have a few beers,

1076
01:12:10,732 --> 01:12:14,132
maybe a couple shots of whiskey and really get his tongue wagging a bit.

1077
01:12:15,392 --> 01:12:19,952
I'd love a peek behind the curtain, I think, of the Fiat Panopticon.

1078
01:12:20,512 --> 01:12:23,212
I don't know if that's probably never going to happen.

1079
01:12:23,772 --> 01:12:24,372
But you know what?

1080
01:12:24,652 --> 01:12:26,192
I'm putting it out there in the universe.

1081
01:12:26,352 --> 01:12:27,232
Maybe at some point.

1082
01:12:27,672 --> 01:12:29,252
I just think that that would be fascinating.

1083
01:12:29,252 --> 01:12:30,852
and then talk about, you know, a no-coiner.

1084
01:12:30,952 --> 01:12:33,192
Maybe he owns some Bitcoin, slyly on the side.

1085
01:12:33,212 --> 01:12:33,572
I don't know.

1086
01:12:33,932 --> 01:12:34,332
I don't know.

1087
01:12:34,452 --> 01:12:38,092
He's actually spoken about it in not too disparaging terms.

1088
01:12:38,212 --> 01:12:41,312
I mean, he's literally said Bitcoin is like gold but digital.

1089
01:12:41,412 --> 01:12:42,172
It's digital gold.

1090
01:12:42,332 --> 01:12:45,212
Like there's been a lot worse things said about Bitcoin than that.

1091
01:12:45,292 --> 01:12:46,892
That's the same thing that a lot of Bitcoiners say.

1092
01:12:46,892 --> 01:12:51,372
So, you know, you could certainly find harsher Bitcoin critics.

1093
01:12:51,532 --> 01:12:54,352
I'd be interested to talk to Peter Schiff too, actually.

1094
01:12:54,352 --> 01:13:04,332
Just as far as people who are so wildly against Bitcoin, or say they are anyway, he still accepts Bitcoin.

1095
01:13:04,672 --> 01:13:07,112
You can pay for Peter Schiff's gold in Bitcoin.

1096
01:13:07,752 --> 01:13:12,372
He had an ordinal series on Bitcoin with his little Schiff gold.

1097
01:13:12,952 --> 01:13:14,312
So I don't know.

1098
01:13:14,332 --> 01:13:16,172
I'm not entirely convinced Peter's a no-coiner.

1099
01:13:16,552 --> 01:13:21,352
I think he at least has some, but he's certainly a good actor, if nothing else.

1100
01:13:21,352 --> 01:13:25,072
I'm a good actor from the sense that he's good at acting.

1101
01:13:25,872 --> 01:13:28,572
So I'm going to give you my full list here.

1102
01:13:28,692 --> 01:13:30,792
Dream guests for the Bitcoin Matrix podcast.

1103
01:13:31,212 --> 01:13:33,472
This was written, I wrote this over a year ago.

1104
01:13:34,092 --> 01:13:39,552
So Snowden, Stella Assange, Jack Mahlers, Jack Dorsey, Whitney Webb,

1105
01:13:40,032 --> 01:13:46,692
Cat Williams, Ross Ulbrich, Lynn Ulbrich, Zabo, Bukele, Max Keiser,

1106
01:13:46,692 --> 01:13:52,672
Stacey Kaiser, Giacomo Francis, Jack Dorsey, Ron Paul, and Luke Roman.

1107
01:13:54,092 --> 01:13:55,232
It's a great list.

1108
01:13:56,212 --> 01:13:59,332
There's definitely no no-coiners in there.

1109
01:14:00,012 --> 01:14:02,012
But that's a very solid list.

1110
01:14:02,832 --> 01:14:06,612
I think talking to Snowden would be pretty incredible.

1111
01:14:06,932 --> 01:14:10,092
He's going to be a tough one to pin down, I think.

1112
01:14:10,312 --> 01:14:12,892
But, you know, hey, it'd be pretty darn cool.

1113
01:14:13,352 --> 01:14:15,292
I almost had Lynn Albrecht on the show.

1114
01:14:15,292 --> 01:14:16,972
This was like three years ago.

1115
01:14:17,352 --> 01:14:18,892
And she agreed to come on the show.

1116
01:14:19,172 --> 01:14:22,012
And then about a week before we were supposed to do the recording,

1117
01:14:22,292 --> 01:14:26,912
the Daily Mail came out with a piece that Trump was considering a pardon.

1118
01:14:27,252 --> 01:14:29,152
This was, I guess, in 2020.

1119
01:14:30,172 --> 01:14:32,752
And so she was just like, I can't do this now.

1120
01:14:33,172 --> 01:14:34,672
You know, we were on silence.

1121
01:14:34,792 --> 01:14:36,332
So she backed out then.

1122
01:14:36,392 --> 01:14:37,652
And I completely understand.

1123
01:14:37,792 --> 01:14:40,332
And, you know, we lost communication from then on.

1124
01:14:40,332 --> 01:14:48,772
But yeah, I think that Bitcoin podcasts have gone through like a weird, they're in a weird moment, I think.

1125
01:14:48,992 --> 01:14:54,952
So I think that, you know, pre ETFs, Bitcoin by default was sort of zeitgeisty.

1126
01:14:55,772 --> 01:15:01,572
And you could kind of find what Bitcoiners or what was sort of interesting in the world and look at it through a Bitcoin lens.

1127
01:15:01,832 --> 01:15:10,152
I think almost after the ETFs, Bitcoin has become sort of like the antithesis of zeitgeisty, like zeitgeist, like sort of like, oh, that's.

1128
01:15:10,332 --> 01:15:12,292
That's now a hundred thousand dollar thing.

1129
01:15:12,292 --> 01:15:13,692
That's, that's wall street.

1130
01:15:13,692 --> 01:15:15,652
That's more suits.

1131
01:15:15,652 --> 01:15:16,952
It's all treasury companies.

1132
01:15:16,952 --> 01:15:18,652
It feels less revolutionary.

1133
01:15:18,652 --> 01:15:20,752
It feels less about self custody.

1134
01:15:20,752 --> 01:15:23,032
It is like, it's almost a little like, you know,

1135
01:15:23,032 --> 01:15:26,792
I think Peter McCormack like left on top.

1136
01:15:26,792 --> 01:15:41,836
It feels like there a little bit less for and I don I think it going to come back I not trying to be ultimately pessimistic but but I But I think even things like world events like Charlie Kirk assassination has took a lot of the algorithm

1137
01:15:42,076 --> 01:15:44,856
I think as your show, it just shows in general,

1138
01:15:44,976 --> 01:15:47,596
the content is much more YouTube-based now.

1139
01:15:47,596 --> 01:15:50,156
Even Bitcoin podcasts, which I agree with you,

1140
01:15:50,236 --> 01:15:54,056
you have your sort of loyal audience on the RSS feed.

1141
01:15:54,176 --> 01:15:55,516
It's audio. It's sort of pure.

1142
01:15:56,136 --> 01:15:58,096
And then you bring that show to YouTube,

1143
01:15:58,096 --> 01:16:00,796
and you get a whole different imagination around how you title it,

1144
01:16:00,876 --> 01:16:03,016
how you do your trailer, how you do your thumbnail.

1145
01:16:03,316 --> 01:16:06,556
And that might even affect how you think about what topics to bring up,

1146
01:16:06,636 --> 01:16:07,796
when to bring them up on the show.

1147
01:16:07,956 --> 01:16:12,436
And so how do you think through like maybe the sort of where Bitcoin is

1148
01:16:12,436 --> 01:16:13,996
in sort of podcasting right now?

1149
01:16:13,996 --> 01:16:14,856
I think so.

1150
01:16:14,976 --> 01:16:16,796
I definitely see what you mean.

1151
01:16:16,876 --> 01:16:20,176
I think that I don't know if I completely agree with the fact that Bitcoin

1152
01:16:20,176 --> 01:16:23,776
is kind of no longer this cultural zeitgeist.

1153
01:16:23,936 --> 01:16:25,136
I think that it is.

1154
01:16:25,256 --> 01:16:27,176
I think that it's just somewhat obscured.

1155
01:16:27,176 --> 01:16:32,516
I think there's so much, again, I think we're just so early.

1156
01:16:33,056 --> 01:16:37,776
I think we're so early that, and it's hard to square that, right?

1157
01:16:37,796 --> 01:16:46,496
Because you mentioned the ETFs and like now it's like, okay, how can we be early when Larry Fink of BlackRock is promoting Bitcoin and Bitcoin ETFs?

1158
01:16:46,536 --> 01:16:52,096
How can that possibly be when the world's largest asset manager is speaking favorably about Bitcoin?

1159
01:16:52,096 --> 01:16:57,216
they've got their ibit etf and a number you know obviously there's a lot of different bitcoin etfs

1160
01:16:57,216 --> 01:17:01,576
but you know speaking of black rocks they've got that and it's their you know it's their number one

1161
01:17:01,576 --> 01:17:06,476
money maker it's the biggest etf launch in history so how can you say you know that we're still early

1162
01:17:06,476 --> 01:17:10,936
but it's like all you have to do is you just just even talk to your immediate group of you know of

1163
01:17:10,936 --> 01:17:15,096
friends friends and family you know outside of like the bitcoin space right you know how early

1164
01:17:15,096 --> 01:17:21,836
where I talk to talk to random people, you know, on the street, uh, about like most people just

1165
01:17:21,836 --> 01:17:26,996
still aren't there yet. They're not, they're not even close. People are like one of the biggest

1166
01:17:26,996 --> 01:17:30,216
topics of every conversation that you have with people, wherever you are in the world,

1167
01:17:30,216 --> 01:17:35,456
is that the price of everything is going up. Everything's so expensive. Oh yeah. It's never

1168
01:17:35,456 --> 01:17:39,576
been, this is just ridiculous. The price just, you know, it's like, it's every conversation you

1169
01:17:39,576 --> 01:17:43,916
have very few of those conversations ever go back to, well, you know, at least we can save in Bitcoin

1170
01:17:43,916 --> 01:17:47,236
and retain our purchasing power

1171
01:17:47,236 --> 01:17:48,396
and actually grow our purchasing power.

1172
01:17:48,516 --> 01:17:51,056
It's like people complain about the problem,

1173
01:17:51,196 --> 01:17:53,696
but they don't know that there's a solution out there to it.

1174
01:17:53,956 --> 01:17:55,216
And they don't even necessarily understand

1175
01:17:55,216 --> 01:17:56,716
what the actual root problem is.

1176
01:17:56,776 --> 01:17:57,936
That's a whole different story, right?

1177
01:17:57,936 --> 01:17:59,596
Because most people don't think about what money is

1178
01:17:59,596 --> 01:18:01,496
or what it's supposed to be or what this fiat money is.

1179
01:18:02,416 --> 01:18:05,136
So I hear you from a, I think also from,

1180
01:18:05,236 --> 01:18:07,496
let's just say a content creation standpoint,

1181
01:18:07,496 --> 01:18:10,036
from an algorithmic standpoint,

1182
01:18:10,036 --> 01:18:17,136
like it is way easier like if you if you were starting a podcast from scratch let's say just

1183
01:18:17,136 --> 01:18:20,976
from if you wanted to start something from scratch zero followers zero subscribers zero anything

1184
01:18:20,976 --> 01:18:27,296
you would be able to grow a political podcast you know a really kind of like edgelord politics

1185
01:18:27,296 --> 01:18:34,416
podcast exponentially faster than a bitcoin focused podcast right because people are kind of

1186
01:18:34,416 --> 01:18:36,396
I think people are addicted to the rage bait.

1187
01:18:36,896 --> 01:18:40,316
They are addicted to that algorithmically fueled rage.

1188
01:18:41,016 --> 01:18:43,236
This is one of the reasons I also like Noster so much

1189
01:18:43,236 --> 01:18:45,716
is because there's so much less of that, right?

1190
01:18:46,056 --> 01:18:48,996
You're not being just served things up

1191
01:18:48,996 --> 01:18:52,316
that the algorithm believes are going to keep you

1192
01:18:52,316 --> 01:18:54,276
on the application that you're using longer.

1193
01:18:55,076 --> 01:18:55,896
It gets you're finding things

1194
01:18:55,896 --> 01:18:56,876
that are a little bit more valuable,

1195
01:18:56,996 --> 01:18:57,976
a little more high signal.

1196
01:18:58,096 --> 01:19:00,096
But I think obviously most people don't use Noster either.

1197
01:19:00,156 --> 01:19:01,676
That's an even tinier subset.

1198
01:19:01,676 --> 01:19:11,296
And so I do think that like we, I don't think we ever really got the, the quote, retail wave

1199
01:19:11,296 --> 01:19:16,976
in Bitcoin, uh, this, you know, in this past, you know, year and a half, two years, like since the,

1200
01:19:17,176 --> 01:19:22,536
since the bottom of the bear in 2022, I don't think there has been a very significant influx

1201
01:19:22,536 --> 01:19:27,536
of just, you know, retail plebs, let's say maybe, maybe I'm wrong. I don't know if you,

1202
01:19:27,536 --> 01:19:31,056
if you feel differently, but I haven't felt that. I don't think that's been the case.

1203
01:19:31,056 --> 01:19:41,156
I think that as I've watched my podcast grow, I think it's been amongst – primarily it's been I've been pulling from a bucket of Bitcoiners that are already out there.

1204
01:19:41,256 --> 01:19:44,956
It's not like a bunch of – a huge new wave of people came in trying to learn about Bitcoin.

1205
01:19:45,576 --> 01:19:47,016
I think that's going to change.

1206
01:19:48,256 --> 01:19:54,116
I don't think Bitcoin is done running yet this year or next year.

1207
01:19:54,216 --> 01:19:57,676
I don't think we're going to be in a protracted bear market here as some people are saying.

1208
01:19:57,676 --> 01:20:03,796
and number go up is the number one way to get people to pay attention to Bitcoin, right?

1209
01:20:03,916 --> 01:20:04,856
That's, let's be honest.

1210
01:20:04,896 --> 01:20:09,096
Like nobody wants to buy Bitcoin after it's crashed 30% or 60% or 80%.

1211
01:20:09,096 --> 01:20:09,956
Nobody wants it then.

1212
01:20:10,316 --> 01:20:11,496
They don't want it when it's on sale.

1213
01:20:11,736 --> 01:20:15,856
They want it when it's, when it's at new all-time highs, that's when they pile in.

1214
01:20:16,296 --> 01:20:18,596
And I just don't think we've seen that from the retail perspective.

1215
01:20:18,596 --> 01:20:24,496
We've seen, you know, a lot of, a lot of, you know, I mean, let's say like, like boomers

1216
01:20:24,496 --> 01:20:28,276
have been surprisingly diamond handed buying up these ETFs, you know, from massive retirement

1217
01:20:28,276 --> 01:20:33,376
accounts. You've seen now even like, you know, Bank of America is now Bank of fucking America

1218
01:20:33,376 --> 01:20:38,916
is recommending a one to 4% Bitcoin allocation. You know, you've got Vanguard who finally bent

1219
01:20:38,916 --> 01:20:42,896
the knee. And even though they said we will never offer Bitcoin ETFs to our clients, well,

1220
01:20:43,016 --> 01:20:48,536
that CEO is gone now. And now they're offering Bitcoin ETFs to their clients. Like that's,

1221
01:20:48,616 --> 01:20:53,216
you know, another $11 trillion of assets under management. That's at least some portion that's

1222
01:20:53,216 --> 01:21:00,816
going to come into Bitcoin. Not real Bitcoin, unfortunately, but IOU Bitcoin, PDF, ETF Bitcoin.

1223
01:21:01,036 --> 01:21:08,536
But my point being, I think that there's still, from a content perspective, I think that there's

1224
01:21:08,536 --> 01:21:14,016
still a massive desire for new types of content, whether it be podcasts or there be short form.

1225
01:21:14,096 --> 01:21:19,156
I mentioned Julian Figueroa and the work that GitBased is doing on this new YouTube channel,

1226
01:21:19,156 --> 01:21:24,716
the exit manual, they've hit like, they are, they hit, uh, um, after eight or nine videos,

1227
01:21:24,716 --> 01:21:30,076
they hit like a million views already. And they, they hit 20 some thousand followers. They've

1228
01:21:30,076 --> 01:21:33,476
already got more followers than my YouTube channel has. And they started it like a few weeks ago.

1229
01:21:33,676 --> 01:21:37,656
Right. And it's, it's shorter form. It's like seven to eight minutes, super high energy,

1230
01:21:37,756 --> 01:21:42,896
incredible editing. That's really resonating with people. So people are looking for it. But I think

1231
01:21:42,896 --> 01:21:47,636
when it comes to, especially YouTube or, or, or X or any of these centralized social media

1232
01:21:47,636 --> 01:21:53,276
platforms, there's so much noise to wade through. There's so much noise. And for something new to

1233
01:21:53,276 --> 01:21:58,436
break into your particular algorithmic bubble, you have to kind of go out and look for it first.

1234
01:21:58,936 --> 01:22:01,736
That's the only way. Otherwise, the algorithm is just going to keep serving you what it knows you

1235
01:22:01,736 --> 01:22:05,336
like. It's going to keep serving you what it knows keeps you using that particular platform,

1236
01:22:05,416 --> 01:22:10,076
that particular application. It's not going to deviate from that unless it has a reason to,

1237
01:22:10,496 --> 01:22:16,096
because its job is to make people spend more time on the platform, to put in more viewing hours.

1238
01:22:16,096 --> 01:22:17,616
That's what it does.

1239
01:22:18,256 --> 01:22:26,936
So I think that you have to find ways to break outside of that echo chamber to be able to see kind of a new wave of people come in.

1240
01:22:27,076 --> 01:22:31,116
I also just, I think that new wave is coming, but I just don't think it's here yet.

1241
01:22:31,556 --> 01:22:35,956
I think we're still like, I think in 2026, we're going to see a massive influx of people.

1242
01:22:35,956 --> 01:22:44,596
Like if you look at the Bitcoin search term or search frequency in Google, like it's still not that high, relatively speaking.

1243
01:22:44,596 --> 01:22:46,216
You know, people just still don't care.

1244
01:22:46,876 --> 01:22:48,176
Most people just don't care.

1245
01:22:48,696 --> 01:22:49,136
They will.

1246
01:22:49,536 --> 01:22:51,336
They will come and they will care.

1247
01:22:51,836 --> 01:22:56,896
But I think a lot of them are just kind of like, I don't know, there's a lot of distractions out there in the fiat circus.

1248
01:22:57,196 --> 01:22:58,716
You can't entirely blame them.

1249
01:22:59,196 --> 01:23:02,296
We were all distracted by it for a long time before we found Bitcoin, too.

1250
01:23:02,376 --> 01:23:03,596
So, you know, we've got to have some empathy there.

1251
01:23:03,696 --> 01:23:06,316
But I think, you know, they're coming.

1252
01:23:06,496 --> 01:23:08,836
Printer is coming and plebs are coming.

1253
01:23:09,236 --> 01:23:12,056
It's just maybe might take a little bit longer for both.

1254
01:23:12,056 --> 01:23:13,356
Less time for the printer.

1255
01:23:13,356 --> 01:23:19,236
And the printer will ultimately bring the plebs because people are going to be wondering why the price of everything keeps getting higher.

1256
01:23:19,336 --> 01:23:20,996
And why the heck is that Bitcoin thing?

1257
01:23:21,036 --> 01:23:21,676
I thought it was dead.

1258
01:23:21,736 --> 01:23:23,796
I thought it crashed again, but it's still here.

1259
01:23:23,916 --> 01:23:25,756
And wow, it's double what it was last time I looked.

1260
01:23:25,816 --> 01:23:26,236
That's funny.

1261
01:23:26,336 --> 01:23:28,516
Maybe I should go search for Bitcoin on YouTube.

1262
01:23:29,136 --> 01:23:31,036
And that's how that new trickle starts.

1263
01:23:31,456 --> 01:23:31,636
Yeah.

1264
01:23:31,836 --> 01:23:38,176
I mean, one of the greatest lessons I learned from listening to Bitcoin podcasts was from Bitcoin Tina.

1265
01:23:38,916 --> 01:23:41,616
And it was about trading against your future self.

1266
01:23:41,616 --> 01:23:45,236
Don't trade against yourself and don't trade against, don't trade against others and don't

1267
01:23:45,236 --> 01:23:46,576
trade against your prior self.

1268
01:23:46,676 --> 01:23:49,636
You'll always lose and you'll always feel hopeless and demoralized.

1269
01:23:50,396 --> 01:23:56,116
And I find that in real life, whenever I'm trying to orange pill people, I feel like

1270
01:23:56,116 --> 01:23:57,936
they are trading against me.

1271
01:23:58,116 --> 01:24:01,516
You could kind of feel it like they're not thinking about their own future, thinking

1272
01:24:01,516 --> 01:24:03,776
about how long you've been telling them about Bitcoin.

1273
01:24:04,276 --> 01:24:08,716
They're speculating on what they think you might have or when you're trying to convey

1274
01:24:08,716 --> 01:24:13,356
not so much the this is how much bitcoin you need but this is what happens when you start

1275
01:24:13,356 --> 01:24:19,296
stacking sats don't you want this for yourself don't you want to live like this you're worried

1276
01:24:19,296 --> 01:24:25,136
about bitcoin's volatility but your entire life is volatile your career your family your personal

1277
01:24:25,136 --> 01:24:32,876
time but you know when i moved at 24 years old i moved to san francisco and i was an accountant for

1278
01:24:32,876 --> 01:24:38,176
a big four cpa firm and you know let's say i made 75 grand a year well i had some friends who made

1279
01:24:38,176 --> 01:24:44,976
half that, but they, uh, happened to work at startup.com or whatever, and they became millionaires.

1280
01:24:45,436 --> 01:24:50,096
And at that point in my life, I was just looking around you and I was definitely trading against

1281
01:24:50,096 --> 01:24:57,096
my peers and how come I, I have a master's in accounting and, uh, he or she is a sales rep

1282
01:24:57,096 --> 01:25:00,856
at some bullshit startup. And now they're a multimillionaire. And then they, they, they might,

1283
01:25:00,936 --> 01:25:05,276
it feels like they're turning to you and say, Hey, why don't you quit your accounting job?

1284
01:25:05,276 --> 01:25:11,596
You don't even like that. Go work at a startup and be like me. Try to win the lottery and be like me.

1285
01:25:11,616 --> 01:25:15,716
And you're like, I can't I'm not going to give up my accounting career to be a sales rep.

1286
01:25:15,716 --> 01:25:22,236
And, you know, or even I'm not maybe I'm not even going to go try to make an accounting career of working at startups and hoping, you know,

1287
01:25:22,516 --> 01:25:28,036
I feel like that's where a lot of people are when you when you try to talk about that to them about Bitcoin in real life.

1288
01:25:28,036 --> 01:25:41,560
I think that it a it a great great point I just interject quickly like people are it it hard for people to change their ways right Like change change is hard change is scary Maintaining the status quo always seems

1289
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:47,660
like the, again, the short, uh, short-term thinking, the high time preference, easy option,

1290
01:25:47,740 --> 01:25:51,720
right? Just to, just to keep doing inertia is powerful. You just, just keep doing this. That's

1291
01:25:51,720 --> 01:25:56,120
a lot harder than going over here and start starting this parallel thing that is always

1292
01:25:56,120 --> 01:26:00,940
going to be harder for people. And I think, again, it comes, it comes back to meeting people where

1293
01:26:00,940 --> 01:26:06,900
they are. Uh, and like, I've got, I've got a lot of buddies who are in extremely, uh, extremely

1294
01:26:06,900 --> 01:26:13,400
like high paying finance, you know, jobs at, at very, either very big banks, uh, or other firms,

1295
01:26:13,460 --> 01:26:17,280
you know, consulting firms, that sort of thing, like, you know, very high flying finance jobs.

1296
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:22,620
So they do very well, right? It's hard to convince those types of guys that, Hey, you should look at

1297
01:26:22,620 --> 01:26:26,820
this Bitcoin thing. Cause it's like, I don't know, like I'm doing pretty well, man. You know,

1298
01:26:26,820 --> 01:26:32,860
like I'm doing pretty well for at least two of them that what finally convinced them was

1299
01:26:32,860 --> 01:26:37,980
Trump coming out as pro pro Bitcoin. Like didn't matter all the orange billing I'd been trying to

1300
01:26:37,980 --> 01:26:43,260
do for years, didn't do anything. But the second Trump came out, they were like, Oh, I like Trump

1301
01:26:43,260 --> 01:26:48,060
and all right, I'll buy some Bitcoin then. Like if Trump likes it, I was like, so that's all it

1302
01:26:48,060 --> 01:26:52,620
took you know so my my point being like that that's about meeting them where they are like it

1303
01:26:52,620 --> 01:26:57,320
wasn't a mentality shift for them it wasn't like something that i had said it wasn't any of the

1304
01:26:57,320 --> 01:27:01,460
properties of bitcoin that did it it was just something that they like who they respect who

1305
01:27:01,460 --> 01:27:06,160
they you know who they're going to vote for who said i like bitcoin and that that was all it took

1306
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:11,400
so it's like you know again it's like we go out there with the these best laid plans of we're

1307
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:13,980
we're an orange film this is how i'm going to position it for this person it's like

1308
01:27:13,980 --> 01:27:19,260
it just comes out of meeting, meeting them where they are, or just somebody they care about and,

1309
01:27:19,260 --> 01:27:23,880
and respect. That's a public figure talking positively about it. Like that makes a sure

1310
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:28,520
a lot of like, that's, that's two people I know personally. There's probably more that I know

1311
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:31,880
personally, but those are two people personally that I know started buying Bitcoin because of

1312
01:27:31,880 --> 01:27:36,600
Trump. I'm sure there were a heck of a lot more, you know, like think what you will about what,

1313
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:39,640
what, uh, Trump is doing is this is beside the point. It's just the point that

1314
01:27:39,640 --> 01:27:45,960
that moves the needle a great deal you know all right i love it yeah who if you could orange pill

1315
01:27:45,960 --> 01:27:53,900
anyone in the world who would it be hmm i'm gonna go with i'm gonna go with christine lagarde

1316
01:27:53,900 --> 01:27:59,000
i'm gonna go with christine lagarde because i think she clearly hates bitcoin so much

1317
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:05,240
she i like i i wonder if i i don't know if she can be orange pilled i think she's just honestly

1318
01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:10,220
like she's so corrupt and this is not just me speculating like you can look into her past at

1319
01:28:10,220 --> 01:28:16,320
the imf and all the shady dealers she has she is so incredibly corrupt that like i i don't know if

1320
01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:22,140
she would ever want to grok bitcoin because it would be uh in some way hold a mirror up to her

1321
01:28:22,140 --> 01:28:26,760
and that corruptness but boy if i could i would just love to see the havoc that that would wreak

1322
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:31,220
like if she truly uh truly got orange pilled truly went down the bitcoin rabbit hole and then

1323
01:28:31,220 --> 01:28:35,540
all of a sudden just starts sabotaging the European central bank and central banks around

1324
01:28:35,540 --> 01:28:39,520
the world from the inside out. Now that would be interesting. Uh, that, that would be quite

1325
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:44,180
interesting. Or maybe more, maybe Jerome Powell, honestly, Jerome Powell got him orange building.

1326
01:28:44,260 --> 01:28:48,820
He gets out of his job at the Fed. He just, now he's a hardcore Bitcoin maximalist, throws laser

1327
01:28:48,820 --> 01:28:53,060
eyes up on his Twitter PFP and just starts telling all the dirty secrets of the federal reserve.

1328
01:28:53,060 --> 01:28:56,980
He's like, the people must know Bitcoin is the truth. We need to tell the people about the,

1329
01:28:56,980 --> 01:28:59,340
the machinations behind the scenes of the federal reserve.

1330
01:28:59,900 --> 01:29:01,540
I think that would be quite fascinating.

1331
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:02,300
What about you?

1332
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:03,260
Who would you orange pill?

1333
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:04,700
Who would I orange pill?

1334
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:06,080
Uh,

1335
01:29:06,420 --> 01:29:06,820
my,

1336
01:29:06,840 --> 01:29:07,320
my brother,

1337
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:08,460
one of my brothers,

1338
01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:09,940
both of them would be great,

1339
01:29:09,980 --> 01:29:11,120
but you start with one of them.

1340
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:11,920
Uh,

1341
01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:12,960
I think it's really,

1342
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:17,380
I don't really try to care about famous people getting orange pilled.

1343
01:29:17,480 --> 01:29:17,900
I try.

1344
01:29:18,020 --> 01:29:21,280
I think we all care about the people in our lives and the people closest to

1345
01:29:21,280 --> 01:29:24,380
us that that will get to us to the same place that they have people that

1346
01:29:24,380 --> 01:29:25,040
love them too,

1347
01:29:25,580 --> 01:29:26,000
I guess,

1348
01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:26,340
you know,

1349
01:29:26,340 --> 01:29:29,940
But what is Vibes Capital Management?

1350
01:29:30,460 --> 01:29:32,600
A Vibes-based investment firm.

1351
01:29:32,780 --> 01:29:35,640
It's primarily a group chat where we share a lot of memes.

1352
01:29:36,060 --> 01:29:44,980
But yeah, it takes a Vibes-based approach to analyzing current market sentiment and determining where to deploy our own Vibes, to put it one way.

1353
01:29:44,980 --> 01:29:45,580
You guys hiring?

1354
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:49,400
Vibes Capital Management is always hiring if there are good Vibes to be had.

1355
01:29:49,620 --> 01:29:50,000
There you go.

1356
01:29:50,060 --> 01:29:50,780
A great answer.

1357
01:29:50,960 --> 01:29:54,020
If a job interviewer ever asks you, why do you want this job?

1358
01:29:54,060 --> 01:29:55,440
Just say, because you're hiring.

1359
01:29:56,140 --> 01:29:56,540
Exactly.

1360
01:29:58,780 --> 01:30:00,120
I've enjoyed this immensely.

1361
01:30:00,380 --> 01:30:02,400
Thank you for taking the time to come on the show.

1362
01:30:02,940 --> 01:30:03,520
My pleasure, man.

1363
01:30:03,520 --> 01:30:04,260
Thanks for having me.

1364
01:30:04,580 --> 01:30:04,840
Yeah.

1365
01:30:05,020 --> 01:30:06,800
I'll leave it to you for any parting words.

1366
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:11,400
Let people know where they can find you, your show, and any parting words you might have.

1367
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:11,840
Sure.

1368
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:14,860
You can find my show if you go to bitcoinpodcast.net.

1369
01:30:15,620 --> 01:30:17,160
You can find all the links there.

1370
01:30:17,160 --> 01:30:21,080
It's at Walker America and at Titcoin Podcast on X.

1371
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:25,580
You can just search for The Bitcoin Podcast or Walker America on YouTube or Rumble or wherever.

1372
01:30:26,420 --> 01:30:30,020
You can find me on Noster, primal.net slash walker, primal.net slash titcoin.

1373
01:30:30,220 --> 01:30:32,000
You should check out Noster if you haven't already.

1374
01:30:32,380 --> 01:30:44,780
And yeah, the other thing I would say is there's a petition going around that you can sign to request a presidential pardon for Bill and Keone, the Samurai Wallet developers.

1375
01:30:44,780 --> 01:30:48,980
and I think everybody should take a couple of minutes and go sign that petition and maybe go

1376
01:30:48,980 --> 01:30:55,300
post about it on social media and go tag Trump and the White House and the Trump family and tag

1377
01:30:55,300 --> 01:31:02,160
your elected representatives or give them a call. I think that those guys should not have to go sit

1378
01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:06,740
in prison for years away from their family. So that's what I would end on is that, yeah,

1379
01:31:07,100 --> 01:31:13,440
do what you can to support open source software developers, whether they be Bill and Keone or

1380
01:31:13,440 --> 01:31:18,020
whether they be any of the incredible people that are working right now behind the scenes to make

1381
01:31:18,020 --> 01:31:22,180
sure that we have the freedom tech available to us that we will certainly need. We certainly need

1382
01:31:22,180 --> 01:31:26,580
it already and we will sure as hell need it in the future that is to come. We wouldn't be here today

1383
01:31:26,580 --> 01:31:31,200
without anonymous and pseudonymous open source developers writing code. So if you are one of them,

1384
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:36,060
thank you for what you do. And if you're not, you can do whatever, if you know, you can start a

1385
01:31:36,060 --> 01:31:40,060
podcast and talk about it, or at least, you know, podcasters are there to, they should be there to

1386
01:31:40,060 --> 01:31:43,000
provide some cover for the people doing the real work behind the scenes,

1387
01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:46,580
right? We're, we're the, we are the shield and they are the tip of the spear,

1388
01:31:46,580 --> 01:31:49,380
but they need a little bit of cover to be able to do that work.

1389
01:31:49,380 --> 01:31:51,340
So we get to be the useful,

1390
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:54,980
the useful idiots on the front end who can hopefully give them a little bit of

1391
01:31:54,980 --> 01:31:57,640
a little bit of cover while they make sure that we have the tools available to

1392
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:01,320
us that we need to actually be able to move along that sovereignty spectrum

1393
01:32:01,320 --> 01:32:03,180
towards a, towards a future that we want to live in.

1394
01:32:03,420 --> 01:32:05,380
So thanks so much for having me, man. This was a pleasure.

1395
01:32:05,920 --> 01:32:08,080
Yeah. I just want to squeeze one thing because it was in my brain.

1396
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:17,280
So on the Lagarde thing, I always wonder, the Christine Lagarde, the Peter Schiff's, these types, like, do they secretly hold Bitcoin?

1397
01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:20,200
Because they hate it so much they get Bitcoin in a way.

1398
01:32:20,260 --> 01:32:21,640
Like, they are orange-pilled.

1399
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:23,780
They just refuse to rationally admit it.

1400
01:32:24,340 --> 01:32:33,820
And the only way I kind of – one of the ways I dwell on that is, like, when I was a shit-coiner when I first came to the scene, I didn't know – I thought the blockchain was the technology.

1401
01:32:33,820 --> 01:32:39,300
I thought it was about new technology, like the way Apple or mobile or Facebook was technology.

1402
01:32:39,980 --> 01:32:41,420
And I was trying to understand it.

1403
01:32:41,640 --> 01:32:46,220
And after a long time, I decided I'm a Bitcoin maximalist.

1404
01:32:46,460 --> 01:32:51,160
I want to separate money from state and that, you know, I see Bitcoin as savings.

1405
01:32:51,580 --> 01:32:54,220
I think you can invest and speculate on top of that.

1406
01:32:54,300 --> 01:32:58,580
You know, how much do you save of your income and versus how much do you use for, you know, whatever.

1407
01:32:58,680 --> 01:32:59,880
And I vacillate on that.

1408
01:33:00,220 --> 01:33:03,320
But there was a point in time where I said, I'm not going to hold shit coins.

1409
01:33:03,820 --> 01:33:09,700
Uh, I've ethically moved on and I even lost some money by selling some things before they ran,

1410
01:33:10,320 --> 01:33:14,680
even, you know, and so I've tracked those things. I said, Hey, I sold X amount of this thing. And I,

1411
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:20,600
if I held it as I traded, I sold it, I went into Bitcoin and this other thing did do better. And

1412
01:33:20,600 --> 01:33:23,260
maybe I wouldn't have timed and all that. You look at these things and you say, Oh,

1413
01:33:24,020 --> 01:33:29,120
uh, but it was a choice not to hold it. I wonder if the Lagarde's and the Peter Schiff's actually

1414
01:33:29,120 --> 01:33:34,560
choose ethically like, hey, I rail against this thing. I should not hold it. Or do they secretly

1415
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:40,580
love it and they just want to publicly rail against it? I think Peter Schiff, I know he has

1416
01:33:40,580 --> 01:33:45,360
a Bitcoin address because he's talked about this publicly and been like, you can send me Bitcoin

1417
01:33:45,360 --> 01:33:50,940
if you want. And people have done that. I think he also probably has other Bitcoin besides that.

1418
01:33:50,940 --> 01:33:56,800
I think so too. I'm pretty certain. Christine Lagarde, I doubt that she personally has any

1419
01:33:56,800 --> 01:34:01,180
bitcoin i know her she's publicly stated that her son does like she said that in multiple interviews

1420
01:34:01,180 --> 01:34:06,820
not like peter schiff's son spencer was a huge bitcoin advocate for a while it's like you're

1421
01:34:06,820 --> 01:34:11,220
railing against bitcoin out the front door and you're buying it out the back and one day you're

1422
01:34:11,220 --> 01:34:15,440
going to switch and be like we're a bitcoin exchange now you know we sold all our gold it's

1423
01:34:15,440 --> 01:34:20,640
like a nice transition it's a way to be like i'm still the gold figurehead but it's my crazy son

1424
01:34:20,640 --> 01:34:26,120
who's doing it right same thing right i mean like you're and they had yeah if you were really against

1425
01:34:26,120 --> 01:34:30,620
I'm not going to insult my mother by buying this thing that she tells people that she hates.

1426
01:34:31,900 --> 01:34:36,860
And if some of the wealth is being trickled down, it's just the irony there.

1427
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:39,340
The irony that that's publicly known.

1428
01:34:41,500 --> 01:34:43,220
It is kind of hilarious.

1429
01:34:43,440 --> 01:34:46,000
It's like, well, you know, at least one person in the family gets it.

1430
01:34:46,460 --> 01:34:47,180
Maybe more.

1431
01:34:47,380 --> 01:34:47,880
Who can say?

1432
01:34:48,220 --> 01:34:48,840
All right, bro.

1433
01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:49,900
This has been so dope.

1434
01:34:49,980 --> 01:34:50,700
Thank you so much.

1435
01:34:50,980 --> 01:34:51,820
Thanks for having me, man.

1436
01:34:51,920 --> 01:34:52,120
Cheers.

1437
01:34:52,660 --> 01:34:55,540
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of The Bitcoin Matrix.

1438
01:34:55,540 --> 01:35:00,340
If you enjoyed the conversation, don't forget to like, subscribe and drop a comment below

1439
01:35:00,340 --> 01:35:02,140
with any questions or thoughts you may have.

1440
01:35:02,420 --> 01:35:03,580
We'd love to hear from you.

1441
01:35:03,920 --> 01:35:08,120
You can support the show by checking out our sponsors and affiliate links in the description.

1442
01:35:08,360 --> 01:35:12,140
It helps keep bringing you great content while connecting you with awesome products that

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01:35:12,140 --> 01:35:12,880
I believe in.

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01:35:13,120 --> 01:35:16,920
Share this episodes with your friends, family or anyone curious about Bitcoin.

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01:35:17,320 --> 01:35:19,380
And let's keep growing this community together.

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01:35:19,680 --> 01:35:23,180
Stay curious, keep stacking and I'll catch you in the next one.

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01:35:25,540 --> 01:35:36,060
Thank you.