1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,680
Hey, hey, welcome to the Bitcoin Matrix. I'm your host, Cedric Youngelman.

2
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:11,000
This episode is brought to you by Microseed, the Bitcoin self-custody maximalist.

3
00:00:11,460 --> 00:00:16,120
Stamp your 12 or 24-word seed phrase on titanium the size of a quarter.

4
00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,640
Discreet, resilient, seed security made simple.

5
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,900
Make sure to use the code matrix for a discount at microseed.io.

6
00:00:24,140 --> 00:00:28,660
If you haven't tried Peony Lane wines yet, what are you even doing with your life?

7
00:00:28,660 --> 00:00:30,620
The Pinot Noir is my favorite.

8
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,640
Thank you, Ben Justman, for creating your beautiful wines.

9
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,020
Get yours now just in time for the holidays.

10
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:42,560
In this episode, I had the pleasure of joining Robin Sayer on his show to dive deep into Bitcoin,

11
00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,800
its current trajectory, and the bigger forces shaping our future.

12
00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:52,580
Robin and I unpack everything from Bitcoin treasury companies and ETFs to price discovery,

13
00:00:53,140 --> 00:00:56,600
passive investing, and what it really means for Bitcoin adoption.

14
00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:05,580
We touch on how governments might try to co-opt Bitcoin, the role of stablecoins, and whether Bitcoin is ultimately a lifeboat away from fiat collapse.

15
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:15,560
If you're curious about where Bitcoin stands today, how it could evolve tomorrow, and what we could do as individuals to preserve its core ethos, this RIP is for you.

16
00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:21,900
If you want to get in touch with me, it's Cedric at TheBitcoinMatrix.com, where we also have our new merch store.

17
00:01:22,340 --> 00:01:28,240
Head over there to get your Bitcoin Against the Machine, Cash is Trash, and Bitcoin Matrix logo t-shirts.

18
00:01:28,820 --> 00:01:36,620
If you want to help support me and the show directly, I've added links for Venmo, PayPal, Bitcoin with Strike, and a P.O. box so you can send a check or money order.

19
00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:38,260
Value for value style.

20
00:01:38,580 --> 00:01:41,620
I really appreciate your past, current, and future contributions.

21
00:01:42,020 --> 00:01:45,260
They mean the world to me and help make the show sustainable.

22
00:01:45,260 --> 00:01:54,620
Also, if you could leave a five-star review and share your favorite Bitcoin Matrix episodes with your friends and family, this would really help us get the word out.

23
00:01:54,980 --> 00:02:00,080
And now, let's enter the Bitcoin Matrix with me, interviewed by Robin Sayre.

24
00:02:03,540 --> 00:02:07,380
What is real? How do you define real?

25
00:02:07,940 --> 00:02:10,140
You can't jump into cash.

26
00:02:12,020 --> 00:02:13,800
Cash is trash.

27
00:02:15,260 --> 00:02:16,620
What do you do? You get out.

28
00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:24,460
Maybe you can give us some brief overview of who you are and especially why you're excited about Bitcoin.

29
00:02:24,860 --> 00:02:27,060
Sure. My name is Cedric Youngelman.

30
00:02:27,060 --> 00:02:30,220
I'm the host of the Bitcoin Matrix podcast and Bitcoin Center.

31
00:02:30,220 --> 00:02:32,220
I'm co-host of Bitcoin Center with Paul Tarantino.

32
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,560
That's live Tuesdays at 8 p.m. Eastern.

33
00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,900
And why am I excited about Bitcoin?

34
00:02:37,900 --> 00:02:42,820
Well, I'm excited about separating money from state, state from money.

35
00:02:42,820 --> 00:02:49,640
I think that's been a terrible combination for most citizens around the world.

36
00:02:50,180 --> 00:02:57,500
And I think it's also the best way to have something that can't be debased.

37
00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:06,300
And it's a great anchor for, I think, people to think about how to protect their wealth or life raft, if you will.

38
00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,120
So quickly, that's some of the reasons I'm excited about Bitcoin.

39
00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,340
I think it's the most important thing in the world.

40
00:03:14,340 --> 00:03:21,060
So I think you just say, no, I'm sorry, because you said in the beginning, before we started

41
00:03:21,060 --> 00:03:25,580
recording that you kind of annoyed on this like between treasury companies, because I

42
00:03:25,580 --> 00:03:30,380
think that that's exactly the reason why I feel like it's a distraction because there's

43
00:03:30,380 --> 00:03:31,380
all those things.

44
00:03:31,380 --> 00:03:34,580
Why are we excited about Bitcoin and why we got into Bitcoin?

45
00:03:34,580 --> 00:03:38,880
Maybe not like I, if I'm totally honest, I got into Bitcoin because of the gains, but

46
00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:44,640
state and then got deep into Bitcoin because of exactly the reasons that you lined out.

47
00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,840
So I feel like there's a big value to just like the number of go up technology.

48
00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:56,880
But I hear you a lot with being like kind of annoyed at this distraction of the Bitcoin

49
00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:01,680
Treasury companies. And when you said like you're excited about this and like I thought about

50
00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:07,680
Bitcoin Treasury companies kind of a distraction to that. It's a major distraction. I'm excited

51
00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:15,240
about them from a finance and economics perspective and how they're going to hopefully eat traditional

52
00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:23,320
finance. But I think it's a distraction from all the things that make Bitcoin Bitcoin because

53
00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:30,260
Bitcoin treasury companies, they centralize their Bitcoin. You're not holding the Bitcoin. You don't

54
00:04:30,260 --> 00:04:34,080
have any real true claim on it other than it's a shareholder and you're last in line.

55
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:41,180
it's not about self custody it's not about using bitcoin as a currency or medium exchange

56
00:04:41,180 --> 00:04:47,920
it's not about improving bitcoin's privacy or you know personal security or just even

57
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:53,720
you know layer one security so i think it's a big distraction from the bigger issues

58
00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:58,720
in bitcoin i think it's also potentially a great way for the state to capture

59
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,220
Bitcoin, I guess in quotes,

60
00:05:03,220 --> 00:05:06,600
you know, or literally seize Bitcoin,

61
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,180
confiscate Bitcoin in the future.

62
00:05:09,980 --> 00:05:12,140
So while I think it's exciting

63
00:05:12,140 --> 00:05:15,540
from the financialization of Bitcoin,

64
00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,800
yeah, I just, I wish those other topics

65
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,720
wouldn't be so suffocated in this environment.

66
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,080
And I think it also brings a lot of people to Bitcoin.

67
00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:31,080
Bitcoin is great. Bitcoin is for everyone.

68
00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:38,080
But it brings a lot of people, I think, to Bitcoin who really see it as a get rich quick scheme and something they could trade and flip.

69
00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:45,080
You know, so in that regard, you know, it's not really it's any education.

70
00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:53,080
There's like there's no bad publicity, but, you know, I don't think it's the best necessarily on ramp for Bitcoin education.

71
00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:57,320
education. Yeah, there's this thing where everything is good for Bitcoin.

72
00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:03,080
But also even Satoshi was very concerned about how we grow this thing.

73
00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:08,240
And he was cautious about not making it too big too fast because it can be captured.

74
00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:13,320
And I'm kind of wondering because I do see the positive and the negative side of

75
00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,240
treasuring companies, and I think it's kind of coming anyway.

76
00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:21,520
So like we can come in on it, but it will come like

77
00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:26,960
they are coming faster and faster in there and it will happen anyways. But I do wonder if the value

78
00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:33,440
they bring and the service they bring and they do bring a lot of service with unlocking capital that

79
00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:38,080
wouldn't otherwise be impossible to get into Bitcoin and the financialization that you brought

80
00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:46,800
in. If this makes up for the negative aspects of decentralizing coins, possibly being a target for

81
00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:53,360
six one or two and all the things that you have mentioned like the the this this this balancing of

82
00:06:53,920 --> 00:07:01,120
uh we we want bitcoin to go up and be financialized but also we wanna have this core ethos

83
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:08,080
uh in bitcoin maintained and i don't know like do do we succeed if bitcoin is just mainstream money

84
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:14,160
uh and and along the way we might lose some of the core ethos i don't know yeah we might um

85
00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:22,640
I mean, I think Bitcoin treasury companies are an evolving financial mechanism.

86
00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:36,160
And I think at some point you reach a nexus where more operating companies that have positive cash flow take on that strategy.

87
00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:41,080
And it just eats the Bitcoin treasury companies.

88
00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,700
Maybe only a few survive in that regard.

89
00:07:43,700 --> 00:07:45,980
I do think it unlocks capital.

90
00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:56,920
I personally understand that at a very personal level with whatever money I had trapped in 401ks and Roths here in the U.S.

91
00:07:58,260 --> 00:08:03,360
And, you know, someone who works and saves and, you know, receives company matches.

92
00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:09,260
I had a small pool of capital in my 401k and I think I had an IRA.

93
00:08:09,260 --> 00:08:15,960
and there it was there were things like gbtc that i looked at as how can i you know get bitcoin price

94
00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:21,800
exposure with this trapped capital it worked for me i can understand why metaplanet's having

95
00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:29,760
success in japan smarter web's trying to do it uk i do question though how much capital in in this

96
00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:34,460
um how much money coming into these bitcoin treasury companies is actually tracked cap

97
00:08:34,460 --> 00:08:42,120
trapped capital versus retail excitement that's not necessarily trapped. And I would also encourage

98
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:48,560
people to think about, you know, if you, let's say you had some trapped capital, you have $10,000

99
00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:57,280
in your IRA and you've done phenomenally well, you've done a 10, 20, 50, 100x with any of these

100
00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:04,960
securities. It's okay, I think, to thank those securities and pull your money, maybe even pay

101
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:10,100
penalties to get your trapped capital out of the system entirely. Or there are new products that

102
00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:17,020
have come along. The ETFs are here. And again, that's not Bitcoin ethos, but you can use ETFs.

103
00:09:17,020 --> 00:09:23,960
And you could also do self-custody in a lot of these vehicles now, especially in the United States.

104
00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:32,680
And Trump just did an executive order to increase the ability to buy Bitcoin in your 401k.

105
00:09:33,060 --> 00:09:34,400
I think in the States, it's just your IRA.

106
00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,020
So I really see that use case.

107
00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:42,780
I just think right now, a lot of the fervor in this market is retail, FOMO, and not necessarily 100% trapped capital.

108
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,340
And trapped capital sometimes gets unleashed.

109
00:09:47,940 --> 00:09:53,100
You know, Japan can change their rules around spot Bitcoin and how it's treated from a tax perspective.

110
00:09:53,100 --> 00:09:56,660
And that reduces the moat of a company like MetaPlanet.

111
00:09:58,500 --> 00:10:01,740
So, yeah, it's a great question.

112
00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:03,660
Sorry for the ramble.

113
00:10:04,300 --> 00:10:17,360
It's besides the narrative and besides maybe getting some retail folks excited about a treasury company and not Bitcoin itself.

114
00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:32,820
Do Bitcoin Treasury companies and the institutions and companies in general that they're coming more and more into Bitcoin change something like maybe the cycles, maybe like the buying behavior or maybe whatever you want to take it?

115
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:40,580
Yeah, I think the ETFs combined with the Bitcoin Treasury companies have definitely altered or are altering the cycles.

116
00:10:40,580 --> 00:10:47,220
ETFs are some of the people who are buying the ETF, the Bitcoin ETFs right now are some of the

117
00:10:47,220 --> 00:10:54,020
smartest value investors in traditional finance. And those are strong hands, generally speaking.

118
00:10:54,600 --> 00:11:02,100
And we've seen this over the last, I think, year plus, every dip is getting sort of bought up

119
00:11:02,100 --> 00:11:07,820
rather quickly. We're not having large spikes up. We're going sideways for a long time,

120
00:11:07,820 --> 00:11:14,640
minor dips bought up right away and moving up levels like a stepladder so it seems like

121
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:20,220
bitcoin's act it's maturing it seems like as an asset class that doesn't preclude me from thinking

122
00:11:20,220 --> 00:11:25,740
that it can get much more volatile going forward still and volatility can come back but i do think

123
00:11:25,740 --> 00:11:33,280
that um we'll see my my hypothesis will see probably smaller drawdowns than historically

124
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:41,040
speaking. You know, you have to really think about already 90% plus of Bitcoin has been issued.

125
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:49,700
So how much does the halvings really matter, you know, going forward? Are they going to have the

126
00:11:49,700 --> 00:11:59,540
same sort of jolt on, you know, humanity when you're at 94.5% Bitcoin already emitted and more

127
00:11:59,540 --> 00:12:05,460
Bitcoin is getting bought per day than is produced through mining through these treasury companies.

128
00:12:05,460 --> 00:12:12,120
And that'll be interesting. I do also think, though, the ETFs bring probably like this.

129
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:21,260
I think we have less true price discovery. So, you know, the security markets are incredibly

130
00:12:21,260 --> 00:12:28,200
centralized. You can note BlackRock and Vanguard. And yeah, they're acting on behalf of their

131
00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:33,160
customers and they own those assets on behalf of those customers but they know all the deal flow on

132
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:39,400
probably 60 to 75 percent of the market because they manage the deal flow of their customers

133
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:50,040
and then the dtcc clears like 99.99 of all securities bonds and all financial instruments

134
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:55,800
derivatives in in almost the globe i think you know definitely in america i i feel like there's

135
00:12:55,800 --> 00:13:00,760
a lot of um i don't think there's true price discovery in any of these markets anymore

136
00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:07,640
for so many different reasons from passive investors who never turn off the you know the

137
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:15,160
the buying on a monthly weekly or by week by monthly basis so i do think there's potential

138
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:20,920
or that we just haven't seen true price discovery because but at the same time i do think it supports

139
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:28,660
you know the floor the price floor um so i don't know this is very it's it's it's interesting to

140
00:13:28,660 --> 00:13:34,960
watch i mean do you think the the bitcoin treasury companies alter the cycles when it comes to

141
00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:41,700
bitcoin the rules are simple run your own node hold your own keys and protect your seed phrase

142
00:13:41,700 --> 00:13:48,900
that's where micro seed comes in unlike bulky backups micro seed is stamped onto a tiny steel

143
00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:55,620
washer fireproof waterproof and so small you can carry it anywhere or hide it in plain sight

144
00:13:56,180 --> 00:14:01,300
go to microc.io and use the code matrix for a discount on your order

145
00:14:03,300 --> 00:14:12,020
i think price and uh supply and demand usually all the cycles and as the supplies there's the same

146
00:14:12,020 --> 00:14:19,300
and the demand changes, the cyclical nature of Bitcoin might actually change.

147
00:14:20,980 --> 00:14:27,140
But I'm really interested because you said like less price discovery. Do you mean because people

148
00:14:27,140 --> 00:14:36,340
are just in those passive instruments and then they just invest in like a phone and then it just

149
00:14:36,340 --> 00:14:41,540
gets passively invested in like a little bit Bitcoin, a little bit stocks, a little bit here

150
00:14:41,540 --> 00:14:47,860
and there and basically people don't really pick themselves and they just let them management or

151
00:14:47,860 --> 00:14:55,620
like an automatic thing uh do it uh or do you talk more about paper bitcoin and the ios uh things

152
00:14:56,260 --> 00:15:02,100
i think more of the first and so i i think passive investors uh you know imagine going to the

153
00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:06,660
supermarket and you you want to buy you bought tomatoes last week three for a dollar and you

154
00:15:06,660 --> 00:15:09,400
and you want to buy them again today, this week,

155
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:10,560
you're gonna make a salad,

156
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,980
and now they're four bucks each.

157
00:15:12,980 --> 00:15:14,560
And you might think to yourself,

158
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,780
hey, maybe I'm not gonna go buy three tomatoes for $12 now.

159
00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:20,660
Things have changed, I'm gonna buy cucumbers,

160
00:15:20,660 --> 00:15:24,800
I'll buy croutons, I'll buy red peppers, I'll change it up.

161
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,340
But if you're sort of a 401k investor,

162
00:15:28,340 --> 00:15:31,460
you're buying on an algorithmic basis

163
00:15:31,460 --> 00:15:43,006
whenever you stacking and you buying generally Like so you saying okay I want to buy Microsoft this week I don care what the price is I gonna buy I gonna rebalance it to Microsoft

164
00:15:43,006 --> 00:15:44,466
I'm gonna buy Amazon, I'm gonna buy Google.

165
00:15:44,466 --> 00:15:48,126
I'm gonna buy the mag seven regardless of price.

166
00:15:48,126 --> 00:15:51,746
So passive investors are not looking at value investing

167
00:15:51,746 --> 00:15:53,406
or trying to see, hey, you know,

168
00:15:53,406 --> 00:15:56,006
this stock has gone up a lot since last week.

169
00:15:56,006 --> 00:15:57,626
Maybe I should buy more of this other stock

170
00:15:57,626 --> 00:16:01,046
that I have a lot of faith in that hasn't gone up.

171
00:16:01,046 --> 00:16:07,326
And generally speaking, passive investors, you sort of, you cut your flowers and you water your weeds.

172
00:16:07,666 --> 00:16:11,726
Generally speaking, you know, you rebalance out of the winners and into your losers.

173
00:16:13,066 --> 00:16:18,846
And so I think that leads to higher floors, less price discovery on the downside.

174
00:16:19,666 --> 00:16:22,946
You kind of see this with like the video or Amazon.

175
00:16:23,186 --> 00:16:26,226
Anytime bad news comes out, there might be a small dip.

176
00:16:26,506 --> 00:16:30,166
And then the stock recovers and goes to new highs.

177
00:16:30,166 --> 00:16:36,346
there's there's no real price discovery on the downside right now there's not a lot of

178
00:16:36,346 --> 00:16:44,746
short sellers in any of these markets who are challenging and pushing and you know um pushing

179
00:16:44,746 --> 00:16:51,286
back on valuation models there's very little value investors are doing well right now um and i think

180
00:16:51,286 --> 00:16:58,626
a lot of that's driven by passive investing and in essence a lot of that is really not doing like

181
00:16:58,626 --> 00:17:01,026
true mark to market valuations.

182
00:17:01,026 --> 00:17:07,026
So, you know, everyone thinks, you know, like, I mean, NVIDIA is trading at what, 50 P right now, right?

183
00:17:07,026 --> 00:17:10,566
It's a $4 trillion as stock.

184
00:17:11,346 --> 00:17:14,566
So everyone, there's a lot of people who think they're worth that much money.

185
00:17:15,046 --> 00:17:26,086
And if those bubbles pop or burst or come back to any sort of mean or medium, historically, a lot of people are going to have less money than they thought they did.

186
00:17:26,086 --> 00:17:30,986
I don't know. I kind of went on a tangent there.

187
00:17:30,986 --> 00:17:54,226
And I think that having all the centralized forces in these markets leads to more, I wouldn't say price fixing or anything illegal, but more price coordination, more collusion, more aligned interests.

188
00:17:54,226 --> 00:18:01,506
um just in terms of the etf you're not even you're not going from even cash to bitcoin

189
00:18:01,506 --> 00:18:07,746
you're going from generally speaking in the system the authorized participants are trading in and out

190
00:18:07,746 --> 00:18:15,906
of the etf with cash so it's not even in kind exchanges that just got approved so i think

191
00:18:15,906 --> 00:18:22,306
there's there's that that leads to more fees more middlemen which which leads to think about if

192
00:18:22,306 --> 00:18:26,686
If you're buying $100 of Bitcoin and there's 2% of fees,

193
00:18:27,106 --> 00:18:30,246
so every $100 you want to put into Bitcoin, $2 goes into fees.

194
00:18:30,706 --> 00:18:32,866
That's less money going into the asset.

195
00:18:32,866 --> 00:18:34,266
I don't know.

196
00:18:34,886 --> 00:18:42,026
And I think that it seems like most parties that are the biggest supporters of Bitcoin right now,

197
00:18:42,126 --> 00:18:46,226
like let's say the U.S. government, is really embracing Bitcoin,

198
00:18:46,986 --> 00:18:51,666
which is strange if you really boil it down.

199
00:18:51,666 --> 00:18:54,606
But it seems like everyone's really excited about it because that means I think everyone thinks

200
00:18:55,446 --> 00:18:59,606
when governments get involved, these treasury companies get involved, that's people who are going to buy their bags,

201
00:19:00,166 --> 00:19:02,506
right, make them rich.

202
00:19:02,506 --> 00:19:06,606
Oh, I forgot where I was going with that, but.

203
00:19:06,606 --> 00:19:07,606
Yeah, no, I'm sorry.

204
00:19:07,606 --> 00:19:11,526
Hey, it's fascinating because I never thought about

205
00:19:12,246 --> 00:19:15,266
passive investment like ETFs and all those instruments.

206
00:19:15,266 --> 00:19:18,726
Like if you think about on first principles, like Fiat

207
00:19:18,726 --> 00:19:25,286
Fiat came around and Fiat pushed people to all sorts of financial instruments for savings

208
00:19:25,286 --> 00:19:30,646
because Fiat is horrible in saving money, obviously.

209
00:19:30,646 --> 00:19:38,106
And so a lot of my friends, they have ETFs, they have, they have some, they usually have

210
00:19:38,106 --> 00:19:40,946
ETFs actually as savings.

211
00:19:40,946 --> 00:19:43,486
Rarely people have something else outside of that.

212
00:19:43,486 --> 00:19:45,486
They usually have like a bank consultant.

213
00:19:45,486 --> 00:19:48,726
They're like, hey, like there's this X, Y, Z ETF.

214
00:19:48,766 --> 00:19:50,406
You want to be more aggressive.

215
00:19:50,446 --> 00:19:52,006
You want to be more economic friendly.

216
00:19:52,046 --> 00:19:54,446
You want to like all those we did.

217
00:19:54,486 --> 00:19:58,646
They all have kind of the same thing, but they have a different name, a different label

218
00:19:58,686 --> 00:20:04,846
on them, and then they all invest in that just because the bank consultant told them

219
00:20:04,886 --> 00:20:06,726
to and they trust the banks.

220
00:20:06,766 --> 00:20:10,806
And literally today there's an Austrian study coming up.

221
00:20:10,806 --> 00:20:16,686
came out how many people are trusting in the government institutions.

222
00:20:16,726 --> 00:20:17,926
And it was a high number.

223
00:20:17,966 --> 00:20:21,646
It was like in the 90s where people were saying, like, yeah, I trust the banks.

224
00:20:21,686 --> 00:20:22,446
I trust the government.

225
00:20:22,486 --> 00:20:29,806
I trust the police and execution, which is generally a good thing for a state to have.

226
00:20:29,846 --> 00:20:32,326
It means like the state is working fine.

227
00:20:32,366 --> 00:20:34,926
And I think like Austria still works okayish.

228
00:20:34,966 --> 00:20:39,606
I am not a fan of the EU, but like also government does not complete.

229
00:20:39,606 --> 00:20:43,306
complete BS, but there's another tangent.

230
00:20:44,446 --> 00:20:49,146
But when we have that situation and you know, like before you told me,

231
00:20:49,146 --> 00:20:50,526
I'll never thought about that.

232
00:20:50,526 --> 00:20:56,946
We have a lot of people that just invest in this instruments and leave it there.

233
00:20:57,106 --> 00:20:59,026
And there's rebalancing going on.

234
00:20:59,726 --> 00:21:03,686
The there's nobody that really says like, oh, like this is a good thing.

235
00:21:03,686 --> 00:21:06,406
And especially it's not your own money.

236
00:21:06,406 --> 00:21:09,366
You invest other people's money and like with other people's money,

237
00:21:09,366 --> 00:21:12,326
You don't care that much as with your own money.

238
00:21:12,886 --> 00:21:15,966
This distorts the price and the price discovery.

239
00:21:16,046 --> 00:21:18,046
I literally never thought about that.

240
00:21:18,046 --> 00:21:23,046
And it's so obvious once you see it because like the fiat

241
00:21:23,726 --> 00:21:28,806
fiat itself distorts the price signal, but fiat and the second implications

242
00:21:28,806 --> 00:21:33,046
with financial instruments like ETFs distorting the price massively.

243
00:21:33,526 --> 00:21:37,766
I'm like almost 600 episodes in and then it's the first time I thought

244
00:21:37,766 --> 00:21:44,586
about ETFs kind of destroying the price discovery of, of a free market and kind of is a tool

245
00:21:44,586 --> 00:21:49,926
against the free market just because people use it really weirdly and, and, and, and, uh,

246
00:21:49,926 --> 00:21:55,706
as a savings vehicle and they just put the money in there and no matter what that that's,

247
00:21:55,706 --> 00:21:57,166
that that's really interesting.

248
00:21:57,166 --> 00:21:58,166
Speaker 2

249
00:21:58,166 --> 00:21:59,166
Speaker 2

250
00:21:59,166 --> 00:22:00,166
Speaker 2

251
00:22:00,166 --> 00:22:01,166
Speaker 2

252
00:22:01,166 --> 00:22:02,166
Speaker 2

253
00:22:02,166 --> 00:22:03,166
Speaker 2

254
00:22:03,166 --> 00:22:04,166
Speaker 2

255
00:22:04,166 --> 00:22:05,166
Speaker 2

256
00:22:05,166 --> 00:22:06,166
Speaker 2

257
00:22:06,166 --> 00:22:07,166
Speaker 2

258
00:22:07,166 --> 00:22:14,206
column and and his uh his tweets and he's really speaking to sort of uh the value in the market

259
00:22:14,206 --> 00:22:21,006
it just seems like it's 200 over value like stocks and and real estate seems incredibly overvalued

260
00:22:21,806 --> 00:22:27,486
and and so you can talk about all the reasons why it's overvalued but at some point it returns to

261
00:22:27,486 --> 00:22:36,206
the mean at some point you know stocks aren't going to be 50 p.e uh he he talked about how

262
00:22:36,206 --> 00:22:40,846
Now, if you ask the average investor what they expect out of their portfolio, they're

263
00:22:40,846 --> 00:22:44,846
expecting sort of like 10% to 12% returns above inflation.

264
00:22:45,806 --> 00:22:50,546
If you're buying a stock at 50 PE, that's a 2% return.

265
00:22:51,546 --> 00:22:53,646
And there's a major disconnect there.

266
00:22:54,466 --> 00:23:01,666
And the other thing I'm tying into all this is, I think it's possible AI is completely

267
00:23:01,666 --> 00:23:10,406
overvalued and not going to deliver the growth that they want to see in the economy.

268
00:23:10,766 --> 00:23:14,206
And it's possible that it's actually going to be deflationary.

269
00:23:14,406 --> 00:23:15,966
People will lose jobs.

270
00:23:16,966 --> 00:23:20,326
There won't be as many new jobs maybe or a new whatever.

271
00:23:20,486 --> 00:23:21,746
So let's say it's deflationary.

272
00:23:22,806 --> 00:23:29,446
And if people want to like all this, they want to think kind of contain sort of that

273
00:23:29,446 --> 00:23:35,806
whole narrative in NVIDIA and the MAG-7. And if this bubble pops, they're praying that people

274
00:23:35,806 --> 00:23:44,446
only sell their MAG-7. But right now, through the things like ETFs and funds, you could just sell

275
00:23:44,446 --> 00:23:49,726
the whole thing with one push of a button. And that will be interesting, you know, in a digital

276
00:23:49,726 --> 00:23:53,086
error when we ever get into real price discovery on the downside.

277
00:23:55,826 --> 00:23:57,666
So yeah, I

278
00:23:58,666 --> 00:23:59,626
yeah, it's

279
00:24:00,826 --> 00:24:04,066
I think the other thing right now, it's just interesting how not

280
00:24:04,426 --> 00:24:07,726
how lack how much lack of exuberance there is at

281
00:24:08,526 --> 00:24:11,866
for Bitcoin, this price point in US dollar terms.

282
00:24:12,526 --> 00:24:13,926
I do think so.

283
00:24:13,926 --> 00:24:16,886
I get I get messages and I just talked about it with Sean

284
00:24:16,886 --> 00:24:23,646
in the morning where we talked about we are up 87%.

285
00:24:23,646 --> 00:24:29,486
The last time I looked with the Bitcoin price in the last 12 months and people

286
00:24:31,126 --> 00:24:33,806
and people act like we are down 50.

287
00:24:35,126 --> 00:24:39,246
Like people act we are in a massive bear market since two years.

288
00:24:39,686 --> 00:24:41,566
But we actually are in a bull market.

289
00:24:41,566 --> 00:24:46,686
We are 87% up. Yes, we are not 200, 300, 400% up

290
00:24:46,686 --> 00:24:51,026
in the last two weeks, but Bitcoin kind of changed.

291
00:24:51,026 --> 00:24:57,446
And as we said before, we went from like, I don't know, a jet ski to like a small speedboat

292
00:24:57,446 --> 00:25:01,986
to now maybe we are slowly coming to being an aircraft carrier.

293
00:25:01,986 --> 00:25:04,446
And at some point we will be a freaking island.

294
00:25:04,446 --> 00:25:12,386
So like we are growing and then Bitcoin, it needs a lot of people have this price targets

295
00:25:12,386 --> 00:25:15,926
of, I don't know if you have price targets, but like they have this price, I guess, of

296
00:25:15,926 --> 00:25:17,846
like half a million, a million, two million.

297
00:25:17,886 --> 00:25:23,406
And I'm like, you know how much money has to go in there to reach those price

298
00:25:23,446 --> 00:25:27,886
targets and what has to happen in order to go there.

299
00:25:27,926 --> 00:25:31,726
And I'm not saying it's impossible this year and this cycle.

300
00:25:31,766 --> 00:25:34,486
I will definitely hit it at some point.

301
00:25:34,526 --> 00:25:37,566
But people say, oh, like a million this year, a million next year.

302
00:25:37,606 --> 00:25:41,566
I don't wish that for anyone, because I think this shows that the field system is

303
00:25:41,606 --> 00:25:45,886
kind of completely bust and there's friends and families that you still

304
00:25:45,926 --> 00:25:51,546
have to save you. Well, that's what Michael Novogratz mentioned the other day. And maybe

305
00:25:51,546 --> 00:25:57,126
you agree with him is like, if Bitcoin went to a million this year, which I think is still possible,

306
00:25:57,126 --> 00:26:05,326
not maybe likely or probable, you know, how bad would that be for, you know, let's say the economy?

307
00:26:06,346 --> 00:26:13,366
And what does that mean for the price of different things? But maybe, you know, the price of bread

308
00:26:13,366 --> 00:26:15,466
doesn't skyrocket in that example.

309
00:26:15,886 --> 00:26:17,266
And maybe that's a way to export

310
00:26:17,266 --> 00:26:19,006
all the inflation into Bitcoin.

311
00:26:20,426 --> 00:26:21,426
And I do

312
00:26:21,426 --> 00:26:22,946
also think at some point

313
00:26:22,946 --> 00:26:25,306
we kind of have to rip

314
00:26:25,306 --> 00:26:27,226
the Band-Aid off. Even if we don't

315
00:26:27,226 --> 00:26:29,266
want it to go quick, we don't want it

316
00:26:29,266 --> 00:26:29,806
to be ugly,

317
00:26:30,606 --> 00:26:32,946
I don't think we have a choice.

318
00:26:34,086 --> 00:26:34,646
I think

319
00:26:34,646 --> 00:26:37,106
idealistically, the longer this

320
00:26:37,106 --> 00:26:39,266
takes, the slower the grind up, the better

321
00:26:39,266 --> 00:26:40,086
for everybody.

322
00:26:42,566 --> 00:26:43,086
But

323
00:26:43,086 --> 00:26:45,846
But I don't think we're assured that by any means.

324
00:26:45,846 --> 00:26:52,106
And I think at some point we have to deal with this, the pain in the system or how broken

325
00:26:52,106 --> 00:26:53,106
it is.

326
00:26:53,106 --> 00:26:56,926
There's two interesting theories and I'm really curious on what you think, because I'm not

327
00:26:56,926 --> 00:27:05,046
100% sure on like what what I really am fixed on the first theory.

328
00:27:05,046 --> 00:27:10,906
And this is what I always kind of pushed on, but I'm not sure if it's the right one is

329
00:27:10,906 --> 00:27:16,086
that we are on the Titanic with feared and we should take we should sink the Titanic as

330
00:27:16,106 --> 00:27:20,666
slow as possible to get everyone safe to the Bitcoin land.

331
00:27:20,706 --> 00:27:26,386
This makes sense because like a Titanic, if it sinks slowly, we have enough chance to

332
00:27:26,426 --> 00:27:30,546
actually get the people out and get them safe and they're not wet and they're not

333
00:27:30,586 --> 00:27:35,906
sinking in the water. But then there's also the other theory and the data kind of like

334
00:27:35,906 --> 00:27:44,146
for the experiment. What if feared is an addiction, a drug addiction, and we are now saying,

335
00:27:44,146 --> 00:27:50,466
Oh, let's, let's take field still. But let's take it a little less. So it's like, Oh, let's,

336
00:27:50,466 --> 00:27:55,346
let's still take heroin. But let's take a little less, little less. And as you said,

337
00:27:55,346 --> 00:28:00,306
maybe we have to rip off the bandaid. Maybe we have to just stop taking the drugs. Maybe

338
00:28:00,306 --> 00:28:08,946
We have to just stop taking the addiction that we are in and just get clean and get the Bitcoin system.

339
00:28:08,946 --> 00:28:14,706
And also with drug addicts, like if you completely cut them, like there's usually a crash happening.

340
00:28:14,706 --> 00:28:19,506
Like I'm not super into this topic, but I can imagine things like that happening.

341
00:28:19,506 --> 00:28:25,666
So anyways, Bitcoin will do what Bitcoin will do and we will see how it progresses.

342
00:28:25,666 --> 00:28:31,066
I just think if Bitcoin goes up too quickly and then in the same time,

343
00:28:31,066 --> 00:28:33,766
Fiat goes down too, too fast.

344
00:28:34,806 --> 00:28:38,866
There might be bad things happening along the way,

345
00:28:39,566 --> 00:28:44,666
but either way we will come to a nice Bitcoin, a nice Bitcoin land.

346
00:28:44,866 --> 00:28:51,066
I just don't think like the slower it goes, like for me, it's, it's, it's the better,

347
00:28:51,066 --> 00:28:52,826
but I'm not, I'm not certain about that.

348
00:28:52,826 --> 00:28:55,166
If we see fear, there's the poison.

349
00:28:55,166 --> 00:28:57,566
Maybe we have to get the poison out of the system faster.

350
00:28:57,626 --> 00:28:59,566
I am not fully sure on that.

351
00:29:00,266 --> 00:29:04,366
I so I look at the United States government.

352
00:29:04,366 --> 00:29:05,266
Maybe this is where I was going with it.

353
00:29:05,266 --> 00:29:07,366
The United States government is embracing Bitcoin

354
00:29:08,166 --> 00:29:10,886
and a lot of governments are looking at Bitcoin and

355
00:29:13,186 --> 00:29:16,726
Bitcoin, from my perspective, is is discovered

356
00:29:16,726 --> 00:29:18,926
and utilized to separate money from state.

357
00:29:19,586 --> 00:29:22,366
But what if the state and my good friend

358
00:29:22,366 --> 00:29:26,246
Paul Tarantino talks about this. What if the state kind of mapped out and gamed out

359
00:29:26,246 --> 00:29:29,946
their debt problem with fiat and

360
00:29:29,946 --> 00:29:34,266
came up with the answer? And the answer is you need a heat

361
00:29:34,266 --> 00:29:37,106
sink like Bitcoin, like gold, like oil.

362
00:29:37,946 --> 00:29:42,266
So I'm also reading Mark Goodwin's book, The Bitcoin Dollar, and I'm trying to understand this.

363
00:29:43,606 --> 00:29:46,326
If you can yoke the dollar

364
00:29:46,326 --> 00:29:49,946
to one of these asset classes, like gold originally

365
00:29:49,946 --> 00:29:51,226
and then oil.

366
00:29:52,086 --> 00:29:54,026
And you always keep,

367
00:29:54,126 --> 00:29:56,446
you keep medium exchange out of it

368
00:29:56,446 --> 00:29:57,906
and you keep unit of account out of it.

369
00:29:57,986 --> 00:30:00,726
So you don't care if the dollar is store value.

370
00:30:00,846 --> 00:30:02,326
You just need it to be a medium exchange.

371
00:30:02,806 --> 00:30:04,126
Means you need to buy,

372
00:30:04,286 --> 00:30:05,686
if you want to buy that thing,

373
00:30:05,766 --> 00:30:07,166
you have to use dollars.

374
00:30:09,166 --> 00:30:11,386
And you want to keep unit of account.

375
00:30:11,466 --> 00:30:12,866
So if you want to measure that thing,

376
00:30:12,926 --> 00:30:14,166
you measure it in dollars.

377
00:30:14,666 --> 00:30:16,446
And therefore then the wealth in the world

378
00:30:16,446 --> 00:30:17,666
stays in dollars.

379
00:30:18,106 --> 00:30:19,746
Everything is measured in dollars.

380
00:30:19,946 --> 00:30:40,646
And I think this is what Jeff Booth talks about. So Bitcoin fails as a medium exchange. It fails like gold failed. So I think that's why, and again, I look at, you know, Bitcoin is built utilizing SHA-256 technology, which is CIA government technology.

381
00:30:40,646 --> 00:30:43,766
and they're embracing it now.

382
00:30:44,066 --> 00:30:46,966
And if the way they're embracing it, though,

383
00:30:47,606 --> 00:30:51,766
is by hurting it all together and ghettoizing it.

384
00:30:52,106 --> 00:30:55,366
So making it a stagnant asset,

385
00:30:57,046 --> 00:30:58,266
sort of like a pet rock.

386
00:30:58,926 --> 00:31:02,546
And if that thing grows in value,

387
00:31:03,026 --> 00:31:05,066
they can sell dollars

388
00:31:05,066 --> 00:31:06,726
and have everything measured in dollars.

389
00:31:06,726 --> 00:31:08,526
So they can sell treasuries to the stable coins.

390
00:31:08,586 --> 00:31:24,772
If you want to buy the thing you got to buy the stable coin And then so you want to buy this stable coin you got they got to buy us treasuries and you have this beautiful mechanism you actually build a floor into the dollar because anytime the stable coin breaks peg and goes below there be large

391
00:31:24,772 --> 00:31:29,012
institutions and pools of capital that want to buy dollars for less than the price of a dollar

392
00:31:29,012 --> 00:31:33,412
and then you have a valuable dollar if it breaks the peg above you know now you could buy more than

393
00:31:33,412 --> 00:31:43,092
a dollar for a dollar so um it's i i i think that that's sort of the the end game or the way to

394
00:31:43,092 --> 00:31:49,172
extend the life of the dollar is is the government's going to look to use bitcoin as a heat sink the

395
00:31:49,172 --> 00:31:54,692
way they used and so you had the petrodollar right after we broke the peg with gold we had

396
00:31:54,692 --> 00:32:00,612
the petrodollar if you wanted to buy the oil and use energy in the world you had to go with dollars

397
00:32:00,612 --> 00:32:06,712
Even if both parties didn't trade in dollars in their home currency, you know, they have

398
00:32:06,712 --> 00:32:10,992
native currencies, they had to use dollars as an intermediary to buy oil.

399
00:32:11,772 --> 00:32:13,012
And oil is priced in dollars.

400
00:32:13,532 --> 00:32:19,252
And, you know, yeah, so I think a lot about that convergence.

401
00:32:20,832 --> 00:32:25,972
And alongside the Bitcoin treasuries companies, which is a centralizing force and sort of

402
00:32:25,972 --> 00:32:29,752
the lack of interest in sort of the other qualities of Bitcoin.

403
00:32:30,612 --> 00:32:37,412
It's super interesting. And I like I'm big on that. There's like the Bitcoin system and

404
00:32:37,412 --> 00:32:45,292
the fiat system and you can hold Bitcoin in the fiat system. And if, if I do not hope

405
00:32:45,292 --> 00:32:50,712
that for anyone, but it's a possibility that if you hold Bitcoin in the fiat system, which

406
00:32:50,712 --> 00:32:57,032
an ETF is, or like in the treasury company or like on exchange, even, uh, you might end

407
00:32:57,032 --> 00:33:02,712
with zero Bitcoin. Like I do not hope that for anyone. Like I do hope that your IOU is actually

408
00:33:02,712 --> 00:33:08,632
holding up and you get your Bitcoin at some point in kind. But it's just a reality that

409
00:33:09,912 --> 00:33:15,112
those are not really your Bitcoin and they're in the fiat system. And you might end up with

410
00:33:15,112 --> 00:33:21,512
zero Bitcoin because it's just a piece of paper that you in the end have. That's why as long as

411
00:33:21,512 --> 00:33:28,112
as we can push self custody and maybe like spending a Bitcoin and kind of trying to have

412
00:33:28,112 --> 00:33:32,252
more and more Bitcoin ecosystems and full node operators and all those things out there.

413
00:33:33,032 --> 00:33:38,732
I think as long as we have that, we are good. And only individuals that hold it in the field

414
00:33:38,732 --> 00:33:40,232
system will suffer from that.

415
00:33:40,232 --> 00:33:46,052
Yeah, I think about this a lot too. And I've sort of mixed feelings. On one hand,

416
00:33:46,052 --> 00:33:53,012
you have to have your Bitcoin in self-custody to get the qualities and the good stuff from Bitcoin.

417
00:33:53,572 --> 00:33:58,772
But you become your own counterparty risk to yourself and to anyone else in your life that

418
00:33:58,772 --> 00:34:02,572
you want to inherit your Bitcoin or get access to Bitcoin in case anything happened to you.

419
00:34:04,512 --> 00:34:11,212
But for thousands of years or hundreds of years, people have trusted institutions with their wealth.

420
00:34:11,212 --> 00:34:13,372
you've never been able to take full

421
00:34:13,372 --> 00:34:15,752
self-custody of this kind of wealth

422
00:34:15,752 --> 00:34:17,552
before. And you think about

423
00:34:17,552 --> 00:34:19,652
why necklaces were created so that you

424
00:34:19,652 --> 00:34:21,052
didn't hide your money under a mattress.

425
00:34:21,372 --> 00:34:23,112
You put your shelves on your neck.

426
00:34:23,332 --> 00:34:25,352
So if someone wants to steal your money in the middle of the neck,

427
00:34:25,432 --> 00:34:27,572
in the middle of the night, they had to wake you up to take it

428
00:34:27,572 --> 00:34:28,032
off your neck.

429
00:34:29,232 --> 00:34:31,492
It wasn't to show off the money. It was to protect

430
00:34:31,492 --> 00:34:33,412
the money, to keep it on you, to have

431
00:34:33,412 --> 00:34:35,272
self-custody of your shelves.

432
00:34:35,272 --> 00:34:36,512
But at some point,

433
00:34:36,772 --> 00:34:38,912
you look at Rye Stones

434
00:34:38,912 --> 00:34:41,052
and the biggest Rye Stones

435
00:34:41,052 --> 00:34:44,412
and then the village were kept in the middle of the village because it was an honest transparent

436
00:34:44,412 --> 00:34:49,372
ledger people knew who worked or owned that particular stone and even if you stole it

437
00:34:49,932 --> 00:34:55,212
the idea of the value behind the stone and who and who should accrue to was still in everyone's

438
00:34:55,212 --> 00:34:59,452
ledger because it was small enough uh economy where they could kind of keep track of those things

439
00:34:59,452 --> 00:35:07,052
but trust is in the system and i i my my guess is if bitcoin overtakes the entire economy

440
00:35:07,052 --> 00:35:09,332
and becomes all three things,

441
00:35:09,412 --> 00:35:11,272
store of value, medium exchange,

442
00:35:11,392 --> 00:35:11,952
and unit of account,

443
00:35:12,412 --> 00:35:14,252
I do think a lot of people

444
00:35:14,252 --> 00:35:16,372
and institutions and entities

445
00:35:16,372 --> 00:35:18,472
would probably have,

446
00:35:19,312 --> 00:35:20,972
not take self-custody of their Bitcoin.

447
00:35:21,932 --> 00:35:22,772
And I don't think that would be

448
00:35:22,772 --> 00:35:24,232
the worst thing in the world.

449
00:35:24,812 --> 00:35:25,872
You know, I think a lot of people

450
00:35:25,872 --> 00:35:26,652
would look at it and say,

451
00:35:26,732 --> 00:35:27,912
hey, how much of my stack

452
00:35:27,912 --> 00:35:29,312
do I have to have in self-custody

453
00:35:29,312 --> 00:35:30,492
for various reasons?

454
00:35:31,332 --> 00:35:33,412
And what rights and access

455
00:35:33,412 --> 00:35:33,992
do I have to have

456
00:35:33,992 --> 00:35:34,892
to the other part of the stack

457
00:35:34,892 --> 00:35:36,772
to move it into my getaway stack

458
00:35:36,772 --> 00:35:38,552
if I needed to change my threat vector.

459
00:35:39,752 --> 00:35:39,872
Right?

460
00:35:40,032 --> 00:35:44,612
I mean, Joe Rogan doesn't keep all his wealth at his crib.

461
00:35:45,792 --> 00:35:47,092
He's a very wealthy person.

462
00:35:47,232 --> 00:35:48,232
People know he's wealthy.

463
00:35:49,572 --> 00:35:51,792
And even though he doesn't keep it there,

464
00:35:53,272 --> 00:35:55,712
he still hires bodyguards probably in security.

465
00:35:56,032 --> 00:35:58,072
I mean, everyone has to look at their own threat vector.

466
00:35:58,692 --> 00:36:00,352
I was talking to David Callum last night,

467
00:36:00,592 --> 00:36:03,992
and he would be scared of a wrench attack.

468
00:36:04,452 --> 00:36:06,412
And he doesn't understand maybe multi-sig

469
00:36:06,412 --> 00:36:07,832
and different ways to secure your Bitcoin.

470
00:36:08,532 --> 00:36:09,832
But I think if he owned a Bitcoin,

471
00:36:09,932 --> 00:36:10,772
I don't think he'd have a problem

472
00:36:10,772 --> 00:36:11,952
if he kept it at fidelity

473
00:36:11,952 --> 00:36:15,372
and for him avoided his biggest nightmare,

474
00:36:15,812 --> 00:36:16,732
someone coming to his home

475
00:36:16,732 --> 00:36:17,932
and trying to take his Bitcoin,

476
00:36:18,792 --> 00:36:20,072
you know, or any of his wealth.

477
00:36:20,952 --> 00:36:23,052
So I think that will evolve too.

478
00:36:23,132 --> 00:36:24,632
And I think the way you self-custody

479
00:36:24,632 --> 00:36:26,072
will probably evolve over time.

480
00:36:26,892 --> 00:36:27,832
I mean, we're very,

481
00:36:27,992 --> 00:36:29,492
it's a very nascent technology

482
00:36:29,492 --> 00:36:30,972
in that respect, all of this.

483
00:36:31,752 --> 00:36:32,912
So in how we look at it,

484
00:36:32,952 --> 00:36:34,132
how we interact with it,

485
00:36:34,132 --> 00:36:40,452
I mean, like corporations, I mean, they're going to have to really look at how they hold it.

486
00:36:40,572 --> 00:36:46,192
Do you have three people who, you know, five people who have keys and three of them can move the coins?

487
00:36:46,832 --> 00:36:47,872
Do you have nine people?

488
00:36:47,972 --> 00:36:48,772
Do you have 17?

489
00:36:49,092 --> 00:36:50,412
Like, how do you figure this out?

490
00:36:50,452 --> 00:36:55,872
Do you keep it at three different custodians and have only certain people who can call the custodian?

491
00:36:55,972 --> 00:37:00,232
I mean, how do countries then, you know, buy and store Bitcoin?

492
00:37:00,232 --> 00:37:01,452
And that's another thing.

493
00:37:01,532 --> 00:37:04,952
I think, you know, a lot of people think the U.S. is going to buy Bitcoin.

494
00:37:05,072 --> 00:37:06,192
And I really don't.

495
00:37:06,312 --> 00:37:12,872
I don't think the United States government is interested in buying something and never selling it.

496
00:37:13,192 --> 00:37:30,212
I don't think they have, like, you'd have to buy Bitcoin and sell it to actually capture gains for, like, I just don't see the United States government or really a lot of governments looking to do that in the near term.

497
00:37:30,232 --> 00:37:33,892
especially killing the notion of their own golden goose.

498
00:37:34,972 --> 00:37:42,232
The United States government gets to issue $100 bills that cost them 7 cents to produce.

499
00:37:42,652 --> 00:37:46,672
Think about a supermarket that's operating at 1% to 2% profit margins.

500
00:37:47,172 --> 00:37:55,052
They're operating at over 99% operating margin or profit margin on their goods.

501
00:37:55,452 --> 00:37:58,992
They're not going to let anyone mess with that business.

502
00:37:58,992 --> 00:38:02,492
But maybe they need Bitcoin to prolong this business.

503
00:38:02,492 --> 00:38:03,492
They totally do.

504
00:38:03,492 --> 00:38:10,332
They need, if Bitcoin goes up in value, stable coins have to buy more U.S. treasuries.

505
00:38:11,332 --> 00:38:16,832
And when, when a stable coin is issued, the United States government gets a two for one.

506
00:38:17,152 --> 00:38:19,152
So they issue the stable coin.

507
00:38:19,892 --> 00:38:20,652
That's a dollar.

508
00:38:21,452 --> 00:38:23,492
And the stable coin has to go buy a U.S.

509
00:38:23,492 --> 00:38:26,492
Treasury, which is a second dollar to back the first dollar.

510
00:38:26,492 --> 00:38:30,692
So $1 bought, $2 sold.

511
00:38:30,692 --> 00:38:33,532
So it's a great business.

512
00:38:33,532 --> 00:38:38,532
And I think that's part of the reason the price of Bitcoin is through any,

513
00:38:38,772 --> 00:38:43,172
whether it's nefarious or just again, I think there's a lot of parties involved

514
00:38:43,172 --> 00:38:45,972
that are moving a lot of Bitcoin through regulated markets.

515
00:38:46,452 --> 00:38:49,572
And I think those parties have an opportunity to work together

516
00:38:50,452 --> 00:38:54,452
to push price in different directions,

517
00:38:54,452 --> 00:39:00,212
whether it's to burn short sellers or to liquidate longs or whatever it might be.

518
00:39:00,392 --> 00:39:03,692
I mean, we've seen a lot of manipulation in gold markets.

519
00:39:05,332 --> 00:39:09,652
So I think the United States government is trying to roll out the Genius Act

520
00:39:09,652 --> 00:39:14,912
and the big, beautiful bill and all the regulatory clarity on stable coins

521
00:39:14,912 --> 00:39:20,172
and onshore as much stable coins as possible to sell U.S. treasuries

522
00:39:20,172 --> 00:39:22,952
and then let the price of Bitcoin potentially rip

523
00:39:22,952 --> 00:39:28,072
or at least step ladder up a lot more and issue more treasuries behind all those stable coins i

524
00:39:28,072 --> 00:39:34,872
see like uh the same was gold and paper bills were now bitcoin and stable coins it's like almost a

525
00:39:34,872 --> 00:39:42,392
brett and woods 2.0 where uh the the the us is already saying like um we want bitcoin to flourish

526
00:39:42,392 --> 00:39:48,072
in in america and we will give the rest of the world stable coins like that's a genius thing to

527
00:39:48,072 --> 00:39:53,832
do it's monetary colonialism i mean those u.s dollar stable coins whatever you want to call them

528
00:39:53,832 --> 00:39:58,792
i think we should call them digital political currency units um but those things will get into

529
00:39:58,792 --> 00:40:06,072
markets that the dollar has never been able to get into like iran and china and russia and it'll

530
00:40:06,072 --> 00:40:12,232
help uh bring down and that will be a stepladder improvement for all the economies around the world

531
00:40:12,232 --> 00:40:17,992
who are on a crappier coin than the dollar and i think that's where you know you see stable coins

532
00:40:17,992 --> 00:40:24,332
is a bridge to Bitcoin or an on-ramp, but I think it extends the life of the dollar because

533
00:40:24,332 --> 00:40:29,652
it brings it, that's a much better unit of account for a lot of economies.

534
00:40:29,652 --> 00:40:34,172
It's a slower death for a lot of people around the world to be on the dollar than it is to

535
00:40:34,172 --> 00:40:35,492
be on their local currency.

536
00:40:35,492 --> 00:40:41,192
I mean, if you look at Turkey and all those, like if you have like a inflation rate of

537
00:40:41,192 --> 00:40:47,572
like 100 or over 100% a year like that, like it's not, the US dollar is almost like a Bitcoin

538
00:40:47,572 --> 00:40:53,092
at that point right and if you look at bitcoin treasury companies i mean these are right now the

539
00:40:53,092 --> 00:41:02,052
companies coming to this uh strategy are failing companies uh you know meta planet they can't get

540
00:41:02,052 --> 00:41:07,412
people you know covert destroyed their hotel business so how do we change it up what can we

541
00:41:07,412 --> 00:41:12,132
do we could become a bitcoin treasury company right and then that was a lot of um exterior

542
00:41:12,932 --> 00:41:17,332
external qualities too beyond just being getting you're tethering yourself to the bitcoin price

543
00:41:17,332 --> 00:41:22,072
You get great marketing, you get sort of community support, all these different things.

544
00:41:22,072 --> 00:41:27,212
But it's been struggling and failing companies that have come to this game plan first.

545
00:41:28,072 --> 00:41:32,632
And the companies that will come last are your most successful companies.

546
00:41:33,272 --> 00:41:37,692
They have the least incentive to change what they're doing.

547
00:41:37,692 --> 00:41:46,372
um but uh and so it's going to be countries that have you know that the dollar has uh

548
00:41:46,372 --> 00:41:51,972
taken over their local currency and they don't have a local currency and or they have a failing

549
00:41:51,972 --> 00:41:58,312
currency and these will be the countries that turn to bitcoin first like a la el salvador right

550
00:41:58,312 --> 00:42:03,752
they didn't have their own currency they were already dollarized so um they have the least skin

551
00:42:03,752 --> 00:42:07,832
the game and keeping their own currency so they can move to the you know sort of try to experiment

552
00:42:07,832 --> 00:42:13,912
with bitcoin and so i think you'll see tiny failing countries try bitcoin first and that

553
00:42:13,912 --> 00:42:19,832
will be exciting i would love to see some countries that you know really turn everything around for

554
00:42:19,832 --> 00:42:27,032
their citizens by jumping on the bitcoin uh bandwagon right and and moving to a bitcoin standard

555
00:42:27,032 --> 00:42:32,632
uh i'd love to see a con a company continue to thrive like what we've seen with el salvador in

556
00:42:32,632 --> 00:42:39,592
a short period of time and that sort of remains to be written but it'll be amazing to see a country

557
00:42:39,592 --> 00:42:46,952
rise to the cream of the crop uh through a bitcoin standard um but it'll be countries without their

558
00:42:46,952 --> 00:42:53,512
own currency i think first or failing currencies yeah and i've 100 agree that's why i was so

559
00:42:53,512 --> 00:43:00,072
surprised to see uh president of the united states talking about bitcoin being at bitcoin conferences

560
00:43:00,072 --> 00:43:06,992
investors being openly about, oh, maybe we do, we buy some, maybe we do this and that.

561
00:43:06,992 --> 00:43:13,712
Like just the presence of him at a Bitcoin conference that honestly surprised me that

562
00:43:13,712 --> 00:43:17,352
it felt so out of place.

563
00:43:17,352 --> 00:43:23,192
Like it felt like this should happen in 2035 or 2030 or something like that.

564
00:43:23,192 --> 00:43:25,192
For me also El Salvador felt out of place.

565
00:43:25,192 --> 00:43:28,232
Like El Salvador happened way earlier than I thought it will happen.

566
00:43:28,232 --> 00:43:33,832
I came into Bitcoin in 2020 and had my theories of if Bitcoin is successful, how it will go.

567
00:43:33,832 --> 00:43:39,832
And I completely underestimated developments on a nation's side of things. I overestimated

568
00:43:39,832 --> 00:43:44,712
how quick it will go with companies. Like I thought we have like 100, 200 companies within

569
00:43:44,712 --> 00:43:53,512
like 2022, but we are not even at 200 publicly traded companies yet. So it's interesting how

570
00:43:53,512 --> 00:44:00,472
countries are already doing that like yeah unreal for me i put on my tinfoil hat and i wonder if

571
00:44:01,032 --> 00:44:07,992
you know salvador is like a cia project to test out in a small economy what putting it on bitcoin

572
00:44:07,992 --> 00:44:17,512
standard would look like um and also sort of um aligning bitcoin with sort of uh a more you know

573
00:44:17,512 --> 00:44:22,552
people look at things with broad strokes and it's not that you know you could say el salvador is not

574
00:44:22,552 --> 00:44:27,672
a democratic country anymore and i don't think democracy is necessarily the best thing humanity

575
00:44:27,672 --> 00:44:32,872
will ever come up with but you know that's used that's a double-edged sword right and i i think

576
00:44:32,872 --> 00:44:40,872
that um you know i i i don't i don't think trump is an outsider um i do think his family got debanked

577
00:44:40,872 --> 00:44:47,112
maybe but i don't think that they're outside the establishment he was a prior president already um

578
00:44:47,112 --> 00:44:54,772
And I think he was installed to roll out the digital surveillance network.

579
00:44:55,372 --> 00:44:59,672
And I think that starts with, you know, paving the way for stable coins.

580
00:44:59,832 --> 00:45:03,392
And notice how they put a really broad net on crypto.

581
00:45:04,392 --> 00:45:14,032
And sort of, and they've sort of sanctioned all, like Ripple and ETH are now like sort of legal securities

582
00:45:14,032 --> 00:45:18,332
or just kind of gotten backdoored around the Howey test.

583
00:45:19,652 --> 00:45:23,292
And all these things should, you know, I hate government intervention,

584
00:45:23,512 --> 00:45:26,632
but I do think, you know, we're going to have a government,

585
00:45:26,752 --> 00:45:29,932
they should be intervening in predatory behavior.

586
00:45:30,552 --> 00:45:32,792
And I think a lot of these things have been predatory

587
00:45:32,792 --> 00:45:38,112
and not in good faith and are kind of registered security.

588
00:45:38,112 --> 00:45:40,372
So, or not on registered securities.

589
00:45:40,372 --> 00:45:46,052
So I still, why is Trump bear hugging Bitcoin?

590
00:45:46,232 --> 00:45:51,092
Why were, you know, I think it was great that we had politicians come speak to us,

591
00:45:51,232 --> 00:45:58,152
but it felt more like we were at a certain politician's rally rather than they were asked

592
00:45:58,152 --> 00:46:02,032
to come and present their ideas to us for us to think through their ideas.

593
00:46:02,992 --> 00:46:07,312
And I think we, you know, we might have got a lot of short-term gains,

594
00:46:07,312 --> 00:46:08,772
and I use we very loosely here.

595
00:46:08,832 --> 00:46:10,332
There is no real Bitcoin community.

596
00:46:10,372 --> 00:46:16,612
but if there is a movement, you know, we've really tethered our movement to one political party.

597
00:46:17,872 --> 00:46:22,712
And, you know, political, I think both political parties are used to divide and conquer us.

598
00:46:23,192 --> 00:46:27,792
So you could see, you know, what if the Republican Party loses the midterm elections?

599
00:46:28,652 --> 00:46:31,672
Then, you know, the other party wants to do a whole bunch of,

600
00:46:31,912 --> 00:46:35,892
they want to repeal a lot of EOs and laws and new regulation.

601
00:46:35,892 --> 00:46:41,892
I mean, what if we get a different president from a different party in three years?

602
00:46:42,572 --> 00:46:43,332
A lot can change.

603
00:46:43,392 --> 00:46:56,298
A lot of the things that Trump has done that have been positive for Bitcoin have been done through EO not through sort of the voting process and you know through more mainstream legislation

604
00:46:57,138 --> 00:46:59,558
So those things can change in the headwinds.

605
00:46:59,558 --> 00:47:05,218
And you could see how Bitcoin could be a political football, you know, years from now in the

606
00:47:05,218 --> 00:47:06,018
United States government.

607
00:47:07,038 --> 00:47:12,278
And that this could, you know, humans have been FOMOing in and out of Bitcoin for 16

608
00:47:12,278 --> 00:47:12,838
years now.

609
00:47:12,838 --> 00:47:20,518
So you could see how, what if we did go up to like, you know, a million dollars by April of next year.

610
00:47:21,018 --> 00:47:25,578
And then, you know, things change in the political environment.

611
00:47:26,318 --> 00:47:34,698
And there's, you know, recession and Bitcoin goes down to back down to 42K or 47K or, you know.

612
00:47:34,698 --> 00:47:43,858
And if Bitcoin were to go below 69K, I think that would really put a wrinkle in the narrative of, you know, always having higher lows.

613
00:47:43,858 --> 00:47:51,398
So, you know, it's interesting how, you know, how the hand has been played.

614
00:47:52,438 --> 00:47:58,098
You know, I would have liked to have seen the Bitcoin community just continue to be sort of like the orange party.

615
00:47:59,558 --> 00:48:04,418
And, you know, you can come and bend the knee, tell us what you'll do for us.

616
00:48:04,418 --> 00:48:10,778
but like we're not necessarily going to long term put ourselves blindly behind a candidate or a party.

617
00:48:11,378 --> 00:48:14,318
You know, or just appeal to one side and not the other.

618
00:48:15,018 --> 00:48:20,458
And it's made it a very, you know, with Trump and the meme coins that he launched and some of that bullshit.

619
00:48:21,578 --> 00:48:24,778
And, you know, it really hasn't.

620
00:48:25,258 --> 00:48:32,738
In 2025, outside the Bitcoin bubble, you still go to like something like family barbecues or Thanksgiving.

621
00:48:32,738 --> 00:48:48,338
And there's a lot of people on the left or from the Democratic, whatever you want to call it, like who hear about Bitcoin and are just annoyed right away or have bias against Bitcoiners because of their association with some of these things.

622
00:48:49,578 --> 00:48:58,098
So, you know, yeah, it'll be interesting to see how that goes and whether, you know, short term games lead to long term pain there.

623
00:48:58,098 --> 00:49:04,918
Yeah, the association is interesting because people and I see it in the mainstream media

624
00:49:04,918 --> 00:49:05,918
all the time.

625
00:49:05,918 --> 00:49:09,458
Bitcoin rise partly because of Trump.

626
00:49:09,458 --> 00:49:13,278
And that's the only reason they always mention, like, I don't know how it is in America, but

627
00:49:13,278 --> 00:49:19,238
in the Austrian mainstream news cycle, that's when they represent Bitcoin and they show

628
00:49:19,238 --> 00:49:20,958
how Bitcoin was rising.

629
00:49:20,958 --> 00:49:26,418
This always say, yeah, because Trump is in office and he is a Bitcoin and that's why

630
00:49:26,418 --> 00:49:32,358
Bitcoin is now on the rise. Ah, I don't know. Like that. There's some truth in that, but

631
00:49:32,358 --> 00:49:34,038
you let a lot of truth out.

632
00:49:34,038 --> 00:49:40,958
Yeah. That doesn't discuss fiat and inflation and any of these things that are truly driving

633
00:49:40,958 --> 00:49:46,858
the network effects of Bitcoin and it turns people off and it helps them sort of, um,

634
00:49:46,858 --> 00:49:52,938
yeah, just, just, um, I forget that, you know, just push it aside and, and the past based

635
00:49:52,938 --> 00:49:55,338
on, you know, kill the messenger type stuff.

636
00:49:56,898 --> 00:50:01,878
I also find it interesting how in the EU, they are very open

637
00:50:02,478 --> 00:50:04,278
and pushing forward the CBDC.

638
00:50:04,278 --> 00:50:08,178
And in America, it's a topic where like there's no CBDC.

639
00:50:08,478 --> 00:50:10,178
But at the same time, we have stable coins.

640
00:50:10,178 --> 00:50:13,838
And I'm like, maybe the stable coins are just the CBDCs of America

641
00:50:13,838 --> 00:50:15,798
with a different label on them.

642
00:50:15,798 --> 00:50:17,378
Like they can be controlled.

643
00:50:17,378 --> 00:50:17,898
They're digital.

644
00:50:17,898 --> 00:50:20,298
Like what's the difference to a CBDC?

645
00:50:20,298 --> 00:50:21,338
Yeah.

646
00:50:21,338 --> 00:50:28,498
I mean, this is where I think you really get into debate over definitions around, you know, how involved the central bank is with the coin.

647
00:50:28,778 --> 00:50:32,978
But I think of things like PayPal already as like a CBDC, right?

648
00:50:33,058 --> 00:50:34,078
They can turn me on.

649
00:50:34,138 --> 00:50:34,918
They can turn me off.

650
00:50:35,018 --> 00:50:36,638
They can, you know, go fund me.

651
00:50:36,698 --> 00:50:39,178
They could take all the money away from the Canadian truckers.

652
00:50:39,778 --> 00:50:41,938
They could turn your bank account on and off.

653
00:50:41,978 --> 00:50:43,938
And they can do this at the individual level.

654
00:50:44,458 --> 00:50:46,658
And they could do this at the zip code level.

655
00:50:46,658 --> 00:50:49,998
and it's just in the United States

656
00:50:49,998 --> 00:50:51,958
it's just masked behind a private

657
00:50:51,958 --> 00:50:52,858
public partnership

658
00:50:52,858 --> 00:50:55,638
so the government doesn't track every word you say

659
00:50:55,638 --> 00:50:56,598
Palantir does

660
00:50:56,598 --> 00:50:59,638
you know we didn't turn the government

661
00:50:59,638 --> 00:51:01,878
turn off your money Bank of America

662
00:51:01,878 --> 00:51:02,198
did

663
00:51:02,198 --> 00:51:06,158
but under whose orders and direction

664
00:51:06,158 --> 00:51:08,118
and

665
00:51:08,118 --> 00:51:09,758
I think that's

666
00:51:09,758 --> 00:51:11,938
you know it's just crazy to me how much

667
00:51:11,938 --> 00:51:14,038
you know people want to think

668
00:51:14,038 --> 00:51:15,918
that Trump and Musk were outsiders

669
00:51:15,918 --> 00:51:22,918
and they were just able to buy Twitter and become president of the United States.

670
00:51:23,998 --> 00:51:27,338
And then, like, Musk is not even a United States citizen.

671
00:51:28,258 --> 00:51:34,138
And he's, like, heading up Doge and access to every computer system in the government.

672
00:51:35,418 --> 00:51:39,458
And, you know, him and Teal go back to PayPal.

673
00:51:39,458 --> 00:51:42,898
and if you look at the PayPal mafia

674
00:51:42,898 --> 00:51:43,398
I mean

675
00:51:43,398 --> 00:51:46,698
every product they've come out with since PayPal

676
00:51:46,698 --> 00:51:47,638
which was built on

677
00:51:47,638 --> 00:51:50,138
which was trying to basically be a private Bitcoin

678
00:51:50,138 --> 00:51:52,418
was trying to be a private money PayPal

679
00:51:52,418 --> 00:51:53,938
originally was trying to be a currency

680
00:51:53,938 --> 00:51:56,678
and then they just became Rails

681
00:51:56,678 --> 00:51:58,678
to tell me

682
00:51:58,678 --> 00:52:00,038
Musk doesn't understand currency

683
00:52:00,038 --> 00:52:01,118
is crazy

684
00:52:01,118 --> 00:52:03,678
considering how far back he goes with this thing

685
00:52:03,678 --> 00:52:06,498
and I think his goal with X is to turn it into like WeChat

686
00:52:06,498 --> 00:52:09,378
where you do everything from book your dentist appointment

687
00:52:09,378 --> 00:52:14,858
to pay for the dentist bill, which is just a CBDC right there,

688
00:52:15,558 --> 00:52:17,898
you know, when he partners with the government.

689
00:52:17,898 --> 00:52:22,558
And every business Musk is in is subsidized by a United States government,

690
00:52:22,958 --> 00:52:31,678
from satellites to, oh, man, I'm blanking here, but, like, to Tesla.

691
00:52:32,938 --> 00:52:36,338
And, like, people want to say, you know, Musk is a smart guy,

692
00:52:36,418 --> 00:52:38,318
and, like, Tesla is, like, the stupidest idea ever.

693
00:52:38,318 --> 00:52:40,158
electric cars.

694
00:52:40,418 --> 00:52:40,618
I mean,

695
00:52:42,038 --> 00:52:44,378
but anyway, I digress,

696
00:52:44,518 --> 00:52:46,438
but I

697
00:52:46,438 --> 00:52:48,258
think Trump's been installed to sort of

698
00:52:48,258 --> 00:52:50,338
roll out all these things and

699
00:52:50,338 --> 00:52:51,778
get people to digest it.

700
00:52:52,318 --> 00:52:54,178
I think Biden was put in to like

701
00:52:54,178 --> 00:52:56,538
go crazy with the inflation

702
00:52:56,538 --> 00:52:58,258
because the right would never

703
00:52:58,258 --> 00:52:59,758
accept that at first and then

704
00:52:59,758 --> 00:53:02,218
they would never accept sort of

705
00:53:02,218 --> 00:53:04,178
the infringement on digital rights

706
00:53:04,178 --> 00:53:05,538
under a Biden administration.

707
00:53:06,218 --> 00:53:07,818
It was the same way like Trump.

708
00:53:07,818 --> 00:53:10,918
it was great to roll out COVID and the pandemic during Trump.

709
00:53:11,598 --> 00:53:15,958
Because no, the right would have revolted if, if the left did that.

710
00:53:16,318 --> 00:53:19,938
But if it came from the right, it kind of got through a lot easier.

711
00:53:22,238 --> 00:53:23,258
So I don't know.

712
00:53:25,038 --> 00:53:27,078
I think, I think that's, that's the thing.

713
00:53:27,078 --> 00:53:29,878
Like, I think that Bitcoiners are not really thinking about

714
00:53:31,038 --> 00:53:33,538
like any threats anymore.

715
00:53:33,538 --> 00:53:36,538
Like it's, it almost seems like Bitcoin is like, Hey, we won.

716
00:53:36,538 --> 00:53:38,538
The state's going to pump our bags.

717
00:53:39,078 --> 00:53:41,398
Bitcoin companies are going to pump the price.

718
00:53:41,638 --> 00:53:42,378
And we're here.

719
00:53:42,498 --> 00:53:43,178
We're in Valhalla.

720
00:53:44,298 --> 00:53:51,698
And Bitcoin was built to be anti-fragile, which means that it's going to get tested over and over.

721
00:53:51,798 --> 00:53:53,578
And the tests are going to get bigger and bigger.

722
00:53:54,918 --> 00:54:03,118
So I would only imagine something's coming we just can't even imagine or envision that's going to test Bitcoin in a very different way than ever before.

723
00:54:03,118 --> 00:54:11,278
and and i would imagine the state's behind it that's a super interesting thing do you like how

724
00:54:11,278 --> 00:54:17,358
do you like what if if someone is listening to this like what can we do to make sure like we

725
00:54:17,358 --> 00:54:23,678
have bitcoin and we have as many freedom rights as possible with bitcoin do you remember proof

726
00:54:23,678 --> 00:54:29,678
of keys where every like january 3rd trace mayor you know it's proof of keys and won't take their

727
00:54:29,678 --> 00:54:35,438
key you know their coins off i mean i think self-custody is is the most important thing to

728
00:54:35,438 --> 00:54:39,918
the movement right now again i already said earlier like i don't think all coins will be

729
00:54:40,798 --> 00:54:46,718
in self-custody in the future but i think if we want true price discovery and if humanity wants

730
00:54:46,718 --> 00:54:52,718
the qualities of bitcoin i think we need to take self-custody of coins which means people need to

731
00:54:52,718 --> 00:54:58,398
just like be educated i don't think just because you want to take self-custody doesn't mean you

732
00:54:58,398 --> 00:55:02,938
You should take 100% self-custody of all your coins right away or all your sats right away.

733
00:55:03,218 --> 00:55:08,438
Or, you know, maybe there's, maybe you go to single SIG first, maybe then you go to multi-SIG.

734
00:55:08,558 --> 00:55:12,278
Maybe you learn when you're a multi-SIG that you think single SIG is better.

735
00:55:12,998 --> 00:55:14,938
I mean, there's so much learning here.

736
00:55:14,938 --> 00:55:20,718
And then I think circular economies, people actually using Bitcoin as a medium exchange.

737
00:55:21,238 --> 00:55:27,158
And obviously the biggest obstacle there is the taxation of capital gains on Bitcoin transactions,

738
00:55:27,158 --> 00:55:34,218
which is if the United States government truly liked Bitcoin and loved Bitcoin,

739
00:55:35,278 --> 00:55:38,638
they would treat it as nice as the dollar. They would treat it like money.

740
00:55:39,638 --> 00:55:45,718
But you notice they haven't repealed any or your tax on any time you spend your Bitcoin in America

741
00:55:45,718 --> 00:55:50,498
if there's capital gains. That would be the best thing the United States government could do for

742
00:55:50,498 --> 00:55:57,698
Bitcoin. And the, I think the idea of removing capital gains tax, uh, for Bitcoin transactions,

743
00:55:57,698 --> 00:56:04,818
if they're used to buy something like a product or service, that would be amazing. Like I already

744
00:56:04,818 --> 00:56:11,378
spent my Bitcoin. I earn most of my money in directly in Bitcoin and I spend whatever I can.

745
00:56:11,378 --> 00:56:17,058
I have a freelancer that works fully on Bitcoin. I work on the second one. Uh, we're doing more and

746
00:56:17,058 --> 00:56:24,498
more there. So it's I love having a cash flow directly in Bitcoin that doesn't even touch

747
00:56:24,498 --> 00:56:32,898
fiat. Like the more I can get there, the happier, the more the more freaked I am like that. That's

748
00:56:32,898 --> 00:56:38,258
really cool. I do this like banks a lot and what they're charging and what they're doing and all

749
00:56:38,258 --> 00:56:44,898
of those things. So I do like that we have that Bitcoin option and Bitcoin as a media exchange.

750
00:56:44,898 --> 00:56:51,898
I thought they talked about like some 600 US dollar lift on transaction in the US.

751
00:56:51,898 --> 00:56:53,898
I have no clue what the statement is.

752
00:56:53,898 --> 00:56:54,898
None of that passed.

753
00:56:54,898 --> 00:56:56,898
I don't think any of that passed.

754
00:56:56,898 --> 00:56:57,898
That was a lot of talk.

755
00:56:57,898 --> 00:57:03,898
I think there's been, I think a lot of the political rhetoric around Bitcoin the last

756
00:57:03,898 --> 00:57:07,898
year or two has been a grift, a fundraising grift.

757
00:57:07,898 --> 00:57:10,898
Nothing other than Ross getting released.

758
00:57:10,898 --> 00:57:15,558
released. I mean, not a lot is and repeal, you know, I look a lot has happened. I don't want to

759
00:57:15,558 --> 00:57:21,058
gloss over things. But I think, you know, in terms of campaigning on the United States government,

760
00:57:21,198 --> 00:57:27,258
buying Bitcoin and strategic Bitcoin reserve. I think a lot of that has been a great way to raise

761
00:57:27,258 --> 00:57:34,678
money from Bitcoiners and the greater community of crypto and deliver on the crypto side and not a lot

762
00:57:34,678 --> 00:57:35,598
on the Bitcoin side.

763
00:57:37,598 --> 00:57:40,778
And I think that, you know,

764
00:57:40,978 --> 00:57:44,378
price going up is great,

765
00:57:44,638 --> 00:57:46,138
but Bitcoin is like, you know,

766
00:57:46,178 --> 00:57:47,878
buying Bitcoin because treasury companies

767
00:57:47,878 --> 00:57:49,418
are buying Bitcoin or buying Bitcoin

768
00:57:49,418 --> 00:57:51,678
because governments might buy Bitcoin

769
00:57:51,678 --> 00:57:54,598
is, it should be cherries on top.

770
00:57:55,498 --> 00:57:57,538
Like Bitcoin should be enough.

771
00:57:57,818 --> 00:57:59,898
Like you don't need yield on your Bitcoin.

772
00:58:00,898 --> 00:58:03,258
You shouldn't be, you don't need governments

773
00:58:03,258 --> 00:58:04,338
to buy your bags.

774
00:58:04,678 --> 00:58:10,198
Like if you're thinking long term that this is truly savings, you're not even planning on selling.

775
00:58:10,298 --> 00:58:13,678
Just continue to accumulate whatever you can and stack.

776
00:58:14,118 --> 00:58:20,678
Yeah, I just I don't think we're going to I mean, even Bo Hines, he just left after seven months with the government.

777
00:58:21,898 --> 00:58:29,938
And like what was a kind he went to Tether again, which indicates where this is going.

778
00:58:29,938 --> 00:58:33,698
I mean, he didn't even go to like a river or a Swan.

779
00:58:34,558 --> 00:58:36,158
I mean, he went to a stable coin company.

780
00:58:38,238 --> 00:58:41,738
And he was one of the people who were most excited about being in the government.

781
00:58:42,078 --> 00:58:43,358
There's a lot of stable coin talk.

782
00:58:43,458 --> 00:58:43,558
Yeah.

783
00:58:43,638 --> 00:58:45,798
I mean, there's even like at the last Bitcoin conference.

784
00:58:45,918 --> 00:58:46,778
It was all stable coins.

785
00:58:46,778 --> 00:58:49,758
This remakes of stable coins was really fun.

786
00:58:49,898 --> 00:58:56,138
That's like never heard so many times the talks about stable coins, which is kind of interesting

787
00:58:56,138 --> 00:59:01,298
because we, I think as Bitcoiners, we have to stay vigilant.

788
00:59:01,558 --> 00:59:04,378
We have to stay active and be aware of things.

789
00:59:04,518 --> 00:59:06,178
And people got something from this podcast.

790
00:59:06,398 --> 00:59:07,778
I do enjoy it a lot.

791
00:59:07,938 --> 00:59:10,898
I learned about the necklace thing that was new for me.

792
00:59:10,978 --> 00:59:12,258
It was a small nugget in there.

793
00:59:12,258 --> 00:59:15,118
I wasn't aware how necklace came to be,

794
00:59:15,538 --> 00:59:17,198
but the theory makes a lot of sense.

795
00:59:17,278 --> 00:59:18,338
I have to go deep on that.

796
00:59:18,898 --> 00:59:19,758
That's really cool.

797
00:59:20,278 --> 00:59:24,118
I have one question for each and every one of my returning guests.

798
00:59:24,118 --> 00:59:28,798
And the question is, what have you learned outside of Bitcoin since your last appearance?

799
00:59:29,978 --> 00:59:32,358
How to take care of an RV.

800
00:59:33,138 --> 00:59:34,898
I'm in an RV now.

801
00:59:35,378 --> 00:59:37,878
And so I'm learning a whole new set of skills.

802
00:59:38,538 --> 00:59:41,738
It's kind of like taking care of a house.

803
00:59:41,898 --> 00:59:46,818
But there's just a few other things that you got to do around this thing.

804
00:59:46,918 --> 00:59:49,558
And that's what I've been putting my brainpower into.

805
00:59:50,918 --> 00:59:51,978
Yeah, this RV.

806
00:59:52,158 --> 00:59:52,938
What have I learned?

807
00:59:52,938 --> 00:59:55,338
Oh, man. I've learned my kids are smarter than me.

808
00:59:56,778 --> 00:59:58,038
And I can't learn.

809
00:59:59,818 --> 01:00:01,518
Yeah, it's wild.

810
01:00:01,998 --> 01:00:03,598
But they're intimidating now.

811
01:00:04,438 --> 01:00:08,998
So they're turning 13 and nine.

812
01:00:10,278 --> 01:00:12,038
So each birthday is coming up.

813
01:00:12,398 --> 01:00:14,098
So, yeah, my son, he's like a young man.

814
01:00:15,418 --> 01:00:18,498
And if I need to know anything, I just either Google it or ask him.

815
01:00:19,018 --> 01:00:20,098
He'll tell me the answers.

816
01:00:20,098 --> 01:00:23,158
And it'll interpret it better and explains to me better than Google will.

817
01:00:23,398 --> 01:00:26,038
When it comes to Bitcoin, the rules are simple.

818
01:00:26,638 --> 01:00:30,998
Run your own node, hold your own keys, and protect your seed phrase.

819
01:00:31,618 --> 01:00:33,418
That's where MicroSeed comes in.

820
01:00:34,078 --> 01:00:38,678
Unlike bulky backups, MicroSeed is stamped onto a tiny steel washer.

821
01:00:39,358 --> 01:00:44,938
Fireproof, waterproof, and so small you can carry it anywhere or hide it in plain sight.

822
01:00:44,938 --> 01:00:50,638
Go to microc.io and use the code MATRIX for a discount on your order.

823
01:00:52,338 --> 01:00:53,178
Really cool.

824
01:00:53,718 --> 01:00:57,978
We have an entertainer in the podcast where the previous guest is asking a question for the next guest, as you know.

825
01:00:58,778 --> 01:01:07,238
And the last guest asks you, without knowing what the next guest is, and the last guest asked you, what changed Bitcoin for you?

826
01:01:08,418 --> 01:01:10,518
What changed Bitcoin for me?

827
01:01:10,598 --> 01:01:12,858
Like, you mean, like, what made me get it?

828
01:01:12,858 --> 01:01:20,338
Uh, no, like, uh, maybe poorly formulated, but like what, uh, what did change for you

829
01:01:20,338 --> 01:01:21,538
because of Bitcoin?

830
01:01:21,538 --> 01:01:26,038
It's lack of nihilism, having no faith in the future.

831
01:01:26,038 --> 01:01:33,418
I got a lot more faith in my ability to steer and create my own future, uh, and take it

832
01:01:33,418 --> 01:01:34,418
back.

833
01:01:34,418 --> 01:01:36,958
Uh, as a kid, I always felt like I could create my own future.

834
01:01:36,958 --> 01:01:42,838
And then in adulthood is sort of that, that, that, uh, that feeling started to wane.

835
01:01:42,858 --> 01:01:54,798
And I didn't realize that it was inflation that was just taking so much from me and making it so hard for me to keep up and get ahead and do all the things I wanted to do for my family.

836
01:01:56,378 --> 01:02:02,178
So it gave me the ability to almost like stop and smell the roses, you know.

837
01:02:02,178 --> 01:02:12,538
So, you know, so much of, you know, we talk about Bitcoin being time, but when you don't

838
01:02:12,538 --> 01:02:17,098
have a lot of time or you're, you know, you're, let's say you're working a lot of hours or

839
01:02:17,098 --> 01:02:22,358
something, you start to outsource certain things to get by.

840
01:02:22,358 --> 01:02:28,318
And I found a lot of things I was outsourcing to kind of focus on my fiat job.

841
01:02:28,344 --> 01:02:34,224
wanted to, I wanted to do myself like parenting, you know, I wanted more time to be there with

842
01:02:34,224 --> 01:02:43,024
my kids and parent. Um, and so, um, and, and that's, yeah, I don't know. It's a hard thing

843
01:02:43,024 --> 01:02:44,664
to explain, but, um,

844
01:02:45,904 --> 01:02:50,604
It's an interesting thing of like outsourcing parenting while you want to do parenting and

845
01:02:50,604 --> 01:02:54,684
then you go to the future. But, and, and most people do that, you know, like that's, uh,

846
01:02:54,684 --> 01:02:58,944
How homeschooling is very popular in the Bitcoin ecosystem,

847
01:02:58,944 --> 01:03:01,524
but not that popular in the general population.

848
01:03:02,144 --> 01:03:02,644
Yeah.

849
01:03:02,644 --> 01:03:04,524
And or even just taking care of this trailer.

850
01:03:04,524 --> 01:03:06,484
Like I want to do these things myself.

851
01:03:06,484 --> 01:03:11,784
And before Bitcoin, I never felt like I had the time and that I always had to like

852
01:03:12,544 --> 01:03:16,124
go fiat mine and that I just if, you know,

853
01:03:16,784 --> 01:03:18,644
just pay someone else to do that.

854
01:03:18,644 --> 01:03:23,284
If it cost me less than what I make per hour or something, you know, my fiat job.

855
01:03:23,284 --> 01:03:28,284
And I lost a lot of skills doing that.

856
01:03:28,284 --> 01:03:31,284
And I think it's a pleasure of doing things yourself.

857
01:03:31,284 --> 01:03:32,284
I don't know.

858
01:03:32,284 --> 01:03:36,284
Yeah, I think it's just kind of made me more in control of my time,

859
01:03:36,284 --> 01:03:38,284
understand the value of my time,

860
01:03:38,284 --> 01:03:42,284
or not storing it in something that can be taken from me like the dollar,

861
01:03:42,284 --> 01:03:44,284
what I'm trying to store in there.

862
01:03:44,284 --> 01:03:47,284
So, yeah, just a lot of trying to understand time

863
01:03:47,284 --> 01:03:50,284
and how to choose how to spend your time.

864
01:03:50,284 --> 01:03:52,944
You know, what is it?

865
01:03:52,944 --> 01:03:55,384
What does it mean to have free time?

866
01:03:55,384 --> 01:04:07,110
You know so many people are just like I don have free time I don have time to do anything you know and and what if you do have time What do you want to do And then sometimes you have to do even if you have

867
01:04:07,110 --> 01:04:09,810
as that's interesting, it's like, I do chores,

868
01:04:09,810 --> 01:04:12,050
you do chores and I do that in my free time.

869
01:04:12,050 --> 01:04:13,450
Is that free time?

870
01:04:13,450 --> 01:04:16,630
Yeah, you know, if you choose to do the chore

871
01:04:16,630 --> 01:04:18,650
during your free time or is that a,

872
01:04:18,650 --> 01:04:21,230
and so that's perspective, right, too.

873
01:04:22,830 --> 01:04:25,290
Why do I have to look at this as not my free time?

874
01:04:25,290 --> 01:04:32,970
is all this is my free time you know um and and then just also like attitude yeah yeah and then

875
01:04:32,970 --> 01:04:38,730
you think about something like just the notion of cost of living like oh you're gonna have another

876
01:04:38,730 --> 01:04:46,330
kid like wow can you afford that you know and it's like you're putting a price tag on life you know

877
01:04:46,330 --> 01:04:51,370
like um it's a weird thing like um you know i was coming home from work the other day and there was

878
01:04:51,370 --> 01:04:53,310
I was a DJ on the radio.

879
01:04:53,450 --> 01:04:55,850
I like her, but I don't like everything she says.

880
01:04:56,190 --> 01:04:57,190
Seems like a lot of propaganda.

881
01:04:57,830 --> 01:04:59,550
And she was talking about Mother's Day.

882
01:05:00,050 --> 01:05:12,130
And she was like, you know, there's a survey that came out or a study that mothers make $160,000 a year if they got paid for what they do.

883
01:05:13,430 --> 01:05:16,170
So make sure your family appreciates you.

884
01:05:16,170 --> 01:05:18,530
And now you're putting a price tag on motherhood, right?

885
01:05:18,530 --> 01:05:26,530
And you're also like pitting the mother versus the father in this weird way.

886
01:05:26,530 --> 01:05:41,176
Because maybe the father doesn make I don know where they get this number where motherhood worth Because now that assuming that you get if you get paid to be a mother that you get paid 365 days 24 hours a day or is it nine hours a day Like how does this work

887
01:05:42,196 --> 01:05:48,896
And, and now you're saying like, Oh, like honey, you should give me, like, it's just really like

888
01:05:48,896 --> 01:05:55,796
puts all this price tag and this notion that life costs money. Like, you know, uh, I have deer

889
01:05:55,796 --> 01:06:00,356
sometimes in my woods they're behind my house like i'm sure they're not sitting there like should we

890
01:06:00,356 --> 01:06:05,716
have another baby like will that cost us money like you know they just figure out like what we

891
01:06:05,716 --> 01:06:12,756
need to do to live and eat and sleep and um so you see how it disconnects us from just like being

892
01:06:12,756 --> 01:06:18,836
alive this whole notion of how much things cost um i'm not saying money's not useful but just around

893
01:06:18,836 --> 01:06:23,876
like the way they've financialized every aspect of living.

894
01:06:23,876 --> 01:06:30,596
It's, uh, and putting a price tag on motherhood. That's, that's an impossible job to do. Like

895
01:06:32,196 --> 01:06:38,196
that seems like, oh yeah. Like it seems anti-family it's anti-fam. Yeah. Like what, what is,

896
01:06:38,196 --> 01:06:43,636
was it worth that my mother raised me? Like, like everything or how much should she have paid if

897
01:06:43,636 --> 01:06:48,436
that, you know, if that was a job that paid, you know, and then making that part of the

898
01:06:48,436 --> 01:06:54,316
the economic conversation in a household. And yeah, I don't know.

899
01:06:54,316 --> 01:06:59,956
Um, I agree with you, man. That, uh, makes a whole lot of sense. And, uh, it sounds like

900
01:06:59,956 --> 01:07:16,382
a very healthy attitude and it a very Bitcoin attitude Uh I I hear uh that that really cool Um before I let you go where uh where can people find you and and ask your questions They can find me on X or Twitter at said Youngman C

901
01:07:16,862 --> 01:07:18,622
I host the Bitcoin Matrix podcast.

902
01:07:18,622 --> 01:07:25,542
We drop a show weekly, a philosophical podcast about Bitcoin's effects on society, culture and economics.

903
01:07:26,422 --> 01:07:33,582
That's at X underscore Bitcoin Matrix and now Bitcoin Center, Bitcoin underscore center.

904
01:07:33,622 --> 01:07:41,462
live Tuesdays at 8 p.m. That sounds very well trained. Oh man, I never get that right. Trying.

905
01:07:42,422 --> 01:07:46,502
You got to promote yourself in this space. I'm not good at that. I'm working on that.

906
01:07:47,222 --> 01:07:52,502
Yeah, check it out and hit me up on X. My DMs are open. Awesome. Thank you so much, Cedric,

907
01:07:52,502 --> 01:07:55,862
for being on. And also thank you so much for everyone that is watching and listening for

908
01:07:55,862 --> 01:08:01,062
joining us today as always. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of The Bitcoin Matrix.

909
01:08:01,062 --> 01:08:05,542
If you enjoyed the conversation, don't forget to like, subscribe, and drop a comment below

910
01:08:05,542 --> 01:08:07,322
with any questions or thoughts you may have.

911
01:08:07,562 --> 01:08:08,762
We'd love to hear from you.

912
01:08:09,102 --> 01:08:13,322
You can support the show by checking out our sponsors and affiliate links in the description.

913
01:08:13,322 --> 01:08:17,562
It helps keep bringing you great content while connecting you with awesome products that I

914
01:08:17,562 --> 01:08:18,062
believe in.

915
01:08:18,302 --> 01:08:22,102
Share this episodes with your friends, family, or anyone curious about Bitcoin.

916
01:08:22,522 --> 01:08:24,582
And let's keep growing this community together.

917
01:08:24,842 --> 01:08:28,362
Stay curious, keep stacking, and I'll catch you in the next one.

918
01:08:31,062 --> 01:08:33,742
—