1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,100
Muzz, welcome to Early Days.

2
00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:04,100
Thanks, Carr.

3
00:00:04,300 --> 00:00:06,140
I feel like it's long overdue, man.

4
00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,380
It's good to hang out with you.

5
00:00:09,140 --> 00:00:09,580
Thanks.

6
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:38,380
I spent my whole life chasing you

7
00:00:38,380 --> 00:00:41,500
When will you come?

8
00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:43,800
Come on to me

9
00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:49,740
Yeah, so I'm just excited to get you on finally on early days.

10
00:00:49,740 --> 00:00:55,300
You're the first venture capitalist in Bitcoin that we've had on the show.

11
00:00:55,300 --> 00:01:00,000
so um thank you for being the first one to share all the alpha

12
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:08,340
first but not the last i'm sure but for the people at home who don't already know you because you're

13
00:01:08,340 --> 00:01:13,800
like one of the most popular people i think in the space i think everybody knows you

14
00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:24,400
you have a one you're like me you have a one name uh persona it's just muz so what uh who are you

15
00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:30,640
was and yeah what have you been building in Bitcoin for the past I guess you've been like

16
00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:35,520
in the space for like a decade right or over a decade or something like that yeah it sucks I

17
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:40,100
should be a billionaire you know it's a hard thing it's a hard thing to live with I know Marty Malmy

18
00:01:40,100 --> 00:01:46,520
has the same problem actually probably a lot of people do but but yeah I've been in Bitcoin for

19
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:54,680
quite a while. Definitely, you know, following it and playing around with it. And I had a bar in

20
00:01:54,680 --> 00:02:00,060
New York City. We had the second Bitcoin ATM at the time. That was a lot of fun. It was pretty

21
00:02:00,060 --> 00:02:10,020
much a homemade unit. And yeah, that was that, you know, that late 2013 era, 2014, 2015. That was a

22
00:02:10,020 --> 00:02:17,040
pretty fun time in Bitcoin. My biggest regret, I guess, is that I didn't work in Bitcoin back then.

23
00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:23,080
I didn't just quit everything that I was doing and just dive in full time. That would have been

24
00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:30,620
a wise move. But yeah, I discovered angel investing along the way. There weren't really a ton of

25
00:02:30,620 --> 00:02:36,240
Bitcoin opportunities that I had a chance to invest in, but I invested in a lot of other things,

26
00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:42,260
like way too many things and just learned as much as I could about early stage investing.

27
00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,780
And in case you can't tell, I do not have that Cornell MBA.

28
00:02:48,380 --> 00:02:57,320
So, you know, learned by experience and doing my own thing and a lot of small checks, a few larger ones.

29
00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:05,080
And then eventually in 2021, I decided to just focus on the Bitcoin space.

30
00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:23,400
So I was in a group of, I mean, I was in probably 400 syndicates, right? And a syndicate is just a group of investors. So one syndicate might be ex-Facebook people or ex-Doordash people or ex-alumnies from a network, ex-Googlers.

31
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:28,460
and they kind of present opportunities to the group.

32
00:03:28,460 --> 00:03:34,920
And I was in a bunch of those and some friends kind of motivated me to start my own

33
00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,820
and just focus on the Bitcoin space.

34
00:03:37,940 --> 00:03:41,520
There really weren't too many, I can't think of any actually,

35
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,600
syndicates or group of investors that were just focused on Bitcoin.

36
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:53,020
So I put a lot of effort into that and I raised a pilot fund.

37
00:03:53,020 --> 00:03:57,980
That was our first fund, just friends and family and a lot of small checks that we cut out of that.

38
00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:11,940
And we built up the syndicate alongside of it to become the world's largest Bitcoin focused angel investing network and put a lot of effort into just getting awesome people in the group.

39
00:04:12,140 --> 00:04:19,820
That's kind of the name of the game for the syndicate is it doesn't really matter how much people are investing or how often they're investing.

40
00:04:19,820 --> 00:04:31,020
Yeah, we need investors, too. But just getting really awesome people in the fold and getting their eyes on deals and being able to help out when needed with companies.

41
00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:39,120
That was always like the main goal in the beginning. So that was 2021. And I've been doing that full time ever since.

42
00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:46,520
yeah i think that's one of the that's one of the coolest things i think being i guess running

43
00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:51,200
plub lab must i don't think i've ever told you this but like there's like two there's like two

44
00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:58,780
people that come up to me um around like whenever i go to conferences um around the world or

45
00:04:58,780 --> 00:05:03,380
wherever wherever i'm at they either tell me two things they either say i'm invested through plub

46
00:05:03,380 --> 00:05:11,140
lab through lightning through through um through the lightning syndicate or they say i know you

47
00:05:11,140 --> 00:05:16,680
through snacker news life it's either one of those two things and it's and it's it never fails dude

48
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:22,440
and and i always feel like a sense of like uh-oh like a duty whenever they say that through the

49
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:29,940
syndicate it's like i'm like oh okay and um and yeah you're right it's it's a it's crazy how

50
00:05:29,940 --> 00:05:38,520
popular or like how, um, almost like a sense of like, yeah, yeah. What do you, what do you think

51
00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:43,120
that is? Like, what do you, what do you think? Why do you think there's so, why do you think you

52
00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:49,080
have such a loyal base of like, just what do you call them? Like members, investors, like,

53
00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:58,260
why do you think that base is so, um, just so loyal to, to yeah, to that? Yeah. I think a term

54
00:05:58,260 --> 00:06:03,080
that most people that's appropriate is backers, right? You're a backer, even if you're not

55
00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:08,160
investing. And of course, it doesn't cost any money to join. But we call them syndicate backers.

56
00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:13,880
I guess technically, based on the actual legal structure, you would refer to them as LPs.

57
00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:20,660
But it's not really the same as an LP, right? An LP maybe invests in a fund or invests a larger

58
00:06:20,660 --> 00:06:26,960
amount in something like that. We just call them syndicate backers because you get to decide what

59
00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:33,680
you want to invest in with your own money on a deal by deal basis. Right. So you might get two

60
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:39,340
deals. You might get a deal for, you know, name a company, right. Name a company that you don't

61
00:06:39,340 --> 00:06:42,980
really like. They're not your favorite or for whatever reason you can't invest in. And you

62
00:06:42,980 --> 00:06:48,820
might just decide not to. And then you get one for Stacker News or Pleb Lab or whatever. And then

63
00:06:48,820 --> 00:06:53,560
you want to invest a small amount. And it's really just a great way for people to get started

64
00:06:53,560 --> 00:07:01,560
dipping their toe into the, you know, kind of the angel investing world. And it goes both ways.

65
00:07:01,780 --> 00:07:06,160
You know, I've had a lot of founders, like what you just said, where, you know, you meet people

66
00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:11,060
and a lot of people come up to you and, oh, I invested in your deal or, you know, I'm an investor.

67
00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:16,460
And you're dealing with a lot of small checks. You know, most likely you're not dealing with

68
00:07:16,460 --> 00:07:22,760
somebody who invested 50 grand through the syndicate into Pleb Lab. You're dealing with a

69
00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:28,500
lot of, you know, one to five thousand, maybe a couple of ten thousand dollar checks.

70
00:07:28,940 --> 00:07:33,220
And and it's a good way for you to meet the people who are supporting you.

71
00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:38,140
And also, you know, when you have something that you need or you have an investor update,

72
00:07:38,260 --> 00:07:41,320
you know, maybe you're looking to roll out a new product or something.

73
00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:47,260
You know, you can communicate with all those people and and kind of ask for some help, you

74
00:07:47,260 --> 00:07:52,680
know, which is something that that I'm learning now that I'm in the operator seat more than

75
00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:59,160
the VC seat, you know, it's easy for me as a VC to be like, car, you don't send enough investor

76
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:05,460
updates, man. And here I have to send them and I'm like way overdue. And I'm like the procrastination

77
00:08:05,460 --> 00:08:09,540
king for like the past six weeks. I just been like every other day, it's like, okay, we're gonna get

78
00:08:09,540 --> 00:08:14,760
this done. And, and I haven't. So it's, it's harder said than done, you know, especially when it's not

79
00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:19,300
like, you know, you're playing whack-a-mole as a founder all day long. You know, you've got this

80
00:08:19,300 --> 00:08:24,120
and that and this needs to be done right now you know i have to do this right now and those investor

81
00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:32,100
updates can wait a little bit yeah i i apologize about that i don't send nearly enough um i'm

82
00:08:32,100 --> 00:08:37,960
always waiting for teresa to send me over some deliverables and then she's like oh this week and

83
00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:44,180
then i'm still waiting for teresa to send me some stuff um but anyway but i it's kind of like it's

84
00:08:44,180 --> 00:08:48,260
kind of like one of those things like if it's if i have usually when i send an investor updates like

85
00:08:48,260 --> 00:08:49,840
I'm sending over bad news.

86
00:08:52,680 --> 00:08:54,320
I mean, I shouldn't do that.

87
00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,160
But like, anyway, long story short to get off of that.

88
00:08:57,620 --> 00:09:00,260
But yeah, I hear what you're saying.

89
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:06,720
I think ultimately, I think the syndicate model is a really interesting model.

90
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:14,980
Because yeah, like you said, it just shows that there's a lot of interested people in the ecosystem

91
00:09:14,980 --> 00:09:18,700
that really do care about what you're building.

92
00:09:18,700 --> 00:09:22,020
And I think that's what's so unique about our ecosystem

93
00:09:22,020 --> 00:09:24,160
than other ecosystems.

94
00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:26,600
What have you learned through,

95
00:09:27,660 --> 00:09:31,160
just, I guess, just before we go into the other things

96
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:32,720
that you do, Muzz, but like just through the,

97
00:09:33,380 --> 00:09:35,460
just through your time, like investing

98
00:09:35,460 --> 00:09:38,320
and like working with founders and all that stuff.

99
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,100
Like what have you learned just from that, Muzz?

100
00:09:41,180 --> 00:09:43,320
Like, is it as hard as it looks

101
00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,060
compared to like some of the fiat investing models that are out there?

102
00:09:47,180 --> 00:09:47,820
Is it harder?

103
00:09:48,260 --> 00:09:52,060
Like, yeah, just can you share any kind of alpha that you've learned?

104
00:09:53,860 --> 00:09:58,360
Yeah, so, you know, real quick on the founder sort of perspective

105
00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,720
with the updates, and it is easier said than done.

106
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,880
You know, after people invest in your company,

107
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,980
they're only there to help, you know, especially at this early stage.

108
00:10:10,980 --> 00:10:27,260
So by not updating them and by not asking for their help, not like you're calling them at work and bothering them, asking them for intros, but leveraging the people who've invested in your company is so important.

109
00:10:28,020 --> 00:10:30,500
And it's hard to do, right?

110
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,820
Because there's a million other things to do and you don't think about it.

111
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:38,580
And if there's really no great news, do you really want to bother with an investor update?

112
00:10:38,580 --> 00:10:46,680
And I know that the way that they teach it in YC, for example, is basically no matter what, you're sending something out once a month.

113
00:10:47,180 --> 00:10:52,340
And it doesn't have to be a million charts and graphs and all this kind of, you know, you think about an investor update.

114
00:10:52,420 --> 00:10:57,060
So I got to sit down and I got to make all these fancy metrics and KPIs.

115
00:10:57,220 --> 00:11:03,220
And, you know, it can just be like stream of consciousness, couple paragraphs, you know, here's what's going well.

116
00:11:03,340 --> 00:11:06,580
Here's what isn't. We'll be here. This is what's up.

117
00:11:06,580 --> 00:11:33,420
We brought this person on. We let this person go. Hey, and by the way, we're rolling out an affiliate thing. If you think you might know of somebody who can help, whatever. Right. And that's it. You know, we always overthink these updates like it's just got to be this monumental thing. And I can give you two examples. I have to sing their praises. I have to call it out. But like, say, Thunder Games, Des, every month, an update every month.

118
00:11:33,420 --> 00:11:39,580
And it doesn't have to be 50 pages and a Notion link and here's the expanded and whatever, just every month.

119
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:45,620
And, you know, Oscar from Fountain, he actually went through YC previously.

120
00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:51,800
And I'm not sure if that's a habit that he picked up there, but he's very consistent on his updates.

121
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:53,460
You know, Geyser too.

122
00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:57,680
Every, you know, every month nearly they kick something out.

123
00:11:57,860 --> 00:12:00,680
So you and me, Carr, we can learn from these people.

124
00:12:00,820 --> 00:12:01,160
All right.

125
00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:02,860
We're going to get it together.

126
00:12:02,860 --> 00:12:05,240
All right. You know what? I'm, you know what? You got me now.

127
00:12:05,300 --> 00:12:08,620
Now I'm going to start doing it every month and you're going to be annoyed by it.

128
00:12:08,700 --> 00:12:11,160
Okay. So it's kind of therapeutic too.

129
00:12:11,420 --> 00:12:12,940
I'm going to start doing just two paragraphs.

130
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,560
You're unconscious. Here we go. All right. Setting the calendar now.

131
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:23,260
But your question was like, what was learned or, you know,

132
00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:24,840
is it easier than it looks?

133
00:12:24,860 --> 00:12:27,500
I can't remember exactly how you just phrased it a second ago.

134
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,060
Yeah. Just, just kind of like, what do you think?

135
00:12:30,060 --> 00:12:34,720
because you have so much experience doing this and you've been through so many different

136
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:41,440
bear markets like like like yeah like what what like how is how harder how easier is it compared

137
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:46,340
to the fiat i mean i feel like i know it's probably that much more difficult to raise

138
00:12:46,340 --> 00:12:51,060
and to even get off the ground doing a syndicate and now you're doing thunder thunder and that's a

139
00:12:51,060 --> 00:12:56,940
whole nother beast because of the complexity with the sec and and then and then like yes dude just

140
00:12:56,940 --> 00:13:02,800
talk about the pain points, the hassles, the complete bullshit and just like, yeah, that man.

141
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,720
So we, we, so we talked about this on stage somewhere. I can't remember where it was. I

142
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:13,780
think it was at your top builder event or somewhere, but it is definitely unique and

143
00:13:13,780 --> 00:13:20,360
refreshing in the Bitcoin land that, uh, Bitcoin founders and companies, people like yourself or me,

144
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:24,460
or, you know, I mean, name it, name people, name people that are out there, right. Something like

145
00:13:24,460 --> 00:13:32,180
Azteco or even Keon, like, you know, satsback.com, like they're in it. Like we are in it. We could

146
00:13:32,180 --> 00:13:38,260
have no money and we're still going to find a way, you know, and that resilience of like not going to

147
00:13:38,260 --> 00:13:45,980
die. I've never once seen that in the fiat world ever. And they are the first one. They're the first

148
00:13:45,980 --> 00:13:54,180
ones to send out a letter. You know, it is with a heavy heart that this robotic lawnmower

149
00:13:54,180 --> 00:14:01,520
startup that I worked so hard for, you know, just didn't make it. And there's no way that like the

150
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:06,060
runway goes and they are just so passionate about what they're doing that they're just going to find

151
00:14:06,060 --> 00:14:14,060
a way. And that's definitely unique in the Bitcoin space. It's probably a lot easier for a non-Bitcoin

152
00:14:14,060 --> 00:14:20,360
company to raise funds. I mean, the reality is, you know, anything AI, you know, get your trust

153
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:27,640
and will done with AI or examine your legal documents or AI for HVAC or who the hell knows

154
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:32,580
what's out there, you know, but any of those type of things, even the stuff that I really don't like

155
00:14:32,580 --> 00:14:39,340
to invest in like biotech, you know, and we're in a stage two of caring God knows what and all this

156
00:14:39,340 --> 00:14:47,080
kind of things. Man, they really raise a lot of money. And it's just tough for a Bitcoin company

157
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:54,240
to raise money. It's challenging. It's challenging. And you would think like, oh, Bitcoin, you know,

158
00:14:54,240 --> 00:15:00,160
just hit an all time high and everything's great. And that's not the case. It is still very,

159
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:07,040
very hard for Bitcoin companies to raise money, I have to say. And hopefully that'll change and

160
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:13,420
even out. You know, it was all about the crypto, crypto everything, not much Bitcoin. And that

161
00:15:13,420 --> 00:15:20,240
changed to where now there's more Bitcoin and a little less crypto. Some of those crypto people

162
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:37,519
have came over those VCs But man it is still really hard to raise money Conversely the one other thing that I say is fiat companies or should I say non startups are very good at dissolving their company

163
00:15:38,459 --> 00:15:41,099
So that's like there's a process, right?

164
00:15:41,179 --> 00:15:43,019
Like we have X amount of dollars.

165
00:15:43,379 --> 00:15:46,339
We've decided this isn't going to work anymore.

166
00:15:46,479 --> 00:15:47,679
We're not going to do this.

167
00:15:47,679 --> 00:15:55,719
There's a process to unwinding that company or I'm sure to wind down the company.

168
00:15:56,319 --> 00:16:05,419
And, you know, if somebody invested 100K, they might get $94 back, but they're getting $94 back and the company is being dissolved.

169
00:16:05,699 --> 00:16:12,179
And the founder or CEO is writing some type of letter that basically says what happened.

170
00:16:12,499 --> 00:16:15,639
And that to me is the most valuable part.

171
00:16:15,639 --> 00:16:17,999
Like, it's okay if your company fails.

172
00:16:18,179 --> 00:16:19,379
It's okay if you fail.

173
00:16:19,839 --> 00:16:23,299
I mean, Travis Kalanick from Uber, like, that was his fourth startup.

174
00:16:24,119 --> 00:16:26,319
Like, he was 0 for 3.

175
00:16:26,959 --> 00:16:32,279
Like, blew millions and millions of other people's money, you know, before he started Uber.

176
00:16:32,779 --> 00:16:35,039
So, people fail all the time.

177
00:16:35,159 --> 00:16:41,399
It's just, like, failing in the right way and giving those learnings of, like, here's what we learned.

178
00:16:41,539 --> 00:16:44,019
Here's what we thought we were going to, here's what we wanted to do.

179
00:16:44,019 --> 00:16:45,499
Here's what we realized.

180
00:16:45,639 --> 00:16:47,059
Here's where we tried to pivot.

181
00:16:47,339 --> 00:16:48,359
It didn't work.

182
00:16:48,479 --> 00:16:49,939
And now we're done.

183
00:16:50,179 --> 00:16:51,939
And we hope to see you again.

184
00:16:52,119 --> 00:16:54,599
And the fiat companies are really good at that.

185
00:16:54,959 --> 00:16:56,259
Okay, they know how to fail.

186
00:16:56,339 --> 00:16:58,099
And the Bitcoin companies are terrible.

187
00:16:58,639 --> 00:17:01,599
Where there's like no update, no information.

188
00:17:01,599 --> 00:17:06,899
Who knows if they actually wound down the LLC or what happened with the final accounting or anything.

189
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:08,959
And they're just like gone.

190
00:17:09,239 --> 00:17:12,239
They just don't do that in the proper way.

191
00:17:12,239 --> 00:17:16,419
So that's one observation that I've had from both sides of it.

192
00:17:16,719 --> 00:17:20,779
Do you think it's hard because the baseline is Bitcoin's appreciation value?

193
00:17:20,939 --> 00:17:23,439
Do you think maybe that's why it's so hard to raise?

194
00:17:24,059 --> 00:17:27,639
Because we're just pit against that from the get?

195
00:17:28,979 --> 00:17:30,019
Do you know what I mean?

196
00:17:30,219 --> 00:17:38,159
Like we're just always valued against whether to invest in the Bitcoin company or to just buy Bitcoin instead.

197
00:17:39,059 --> 00:17:40,019
The hurdle rate?

198
00:17:40,239 --> 00:17:40,559
Yeah.

199
00:17:40,559 --> 00:17:44,059
The Jack Mahler's 60% CAGR or whatever the number is.

200
00:17:44,159 --> 00:17:45,659
I mean, it's always there.

201
00:17:45,719 --> 00:17:47,699
I mean, we're teaching that in startup school right now.

202
00:17:47,919 --> 00:17:51,199
Like, we're teaching that to early stage founders that are coming in.

203
00:17:51,259 --> 00:17:53,479
We're saying, hey, this is the baseline.

204
00:17:54,399 --> 00:17:55,239
Beat this.

205
00:17:56,699 --> 00:17:59,599
Like, you've got to beat this as your revenue.

206
00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,119
Like, when we're being upfront about it, we're not, like, bullshitting them.

207
00:18:03,159 --> 00:18:05,999
We're just saying, hey, this is what you have to beat.

208
00:18:05,999 --> 00:18:10,419
just because we want them to know the truth.

209
00:18:10,539 --> 00:18:13,379
We don't want them to discover this, you know, a year, two years in,

210
00:18:13,499 --> 00:18:17,399
like I had to, like, you know, like everybody else had to.

211
00:18:18,839 --> 00:18:21,819
So do you think that's probably the,

212
00:18:22,259 --> 00:18:24,419
do you think maybe that's why it's a little bit harder?

213
00:18:24,999 --> 00:18:30,579
It definitely comes into play when you're thinking about where to invest,

214
00:18:30,879 --> 00:18:34,059
that you don't really have it top of mind for people

215
00:18:34,059 --> 00:18:37,099
who don't eat, sleep, and breathe Bitcoin all day long.

216
00:18:37,339 --> 00:18:40,359
If you're the typical LATAM-focused investor,

217
00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:43,279
I do SaaS deals, or I'm a fintech person,

218
00:18:43,499 --> 00:18:45,459
or whatever they're doing,

219
00:18:45,659 --> 00:18:47,899
they don't put everything they do

220
00:18:47,899 --> 00:18:50,759
up against what Bitcoin is going to do.

221
00:18:51,179 --> 00:18:54,619
They know this world, and that's why they're more likely,

222
00:18:55,219 --> 00:18:56,919
you have much less resistance.

223
00:18:57,659 --> 00:18:58,979
They're not answering the question of,

224
00:18:58,979 --> 00:19:02,979
why would I invest in your...

225
00:19:04,059 --> 00:19:10,579
widget company when I can just buy Bitcoin. They're like, what? Who's talking about Bitcoin?

226
00:19:10,959 --> 00:19:16,779
This is something totally different. And we're dealing with people who put everything against

227
00:19:16,779 --> 00:19:24,679
Bitcoin, whether I should go buy this hamburger with fiat dollars versus buying Bitcoin. The meme

228
00:19:24,679 --> 00:19:29,699
that guy's got the card table and the TV with Sailor on it, and he's sleeping on the floor,

229
00:19:29,699 --> 00:19:33,959
you know, that type of deal. So I definitely think that comes into play when you're dealing

230
00:19:33,959 --> 00:19:38,779
with Bitcoin centric people because they put everything against it. Right. Why would I buy

231
00:19:38,779 --> 00:19:44,039
the S&P? Why would I do this? I mean, everything they do. Why would I buy this car with cash when

232
00:19:44,039 --> 00:19:49,139
I can finance it and buy Bitcoin? You know, everything comes down to acquiring more Bitcoin.

233
00:19:49,279 --> 00:19:56,119
And I don't think that you run up against that in the traditional with traditional investors

234
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:57,939
from the other side.

235
00:19:58,039 --> 00:20:00,899
So I think there's definitely a part of it with that.

236
00:20:01,339 --> 00:20:05,859
But, you know, Bitcoin treasury company is kind of like the talk of the day and everything.

237
00:20:05,859 --> 00:20:11,779
But if you think about it, you know, what we've been investing in, we're kind of like

238
00:20:11,779 --> 00:20:18,919
the OG Bitcoin treasury companies because I don't know of a single Bitcoin company or

239
00:20:18,919 --> 00:20:22,579
startup that doesn't have Bitcoin on their balance sheet.

240
00:20:22,579 --> 00:20:44,399
So, you know, we're kind of like the pioneers of this world, you know, let the sats flow, as they say, you know, or whatever. So there's definitely indirect exposure to Bitcoin's appreciation that you get with these type of investments that you will not get, period, with something outside of this world, you know.

241
00:20:44,399 --> 00:20:56,039
And I don't think that that is really talked about enough, you know, and and maybe not on a day like today, because, you know, the price is down and it's over and pack it up and, you know, life's over.

242
00:20:56,319 --> 00:21:04,919
But, you know, but normally when Bitcoin is going up, your your runway is extending, you know, and yes, it goes both ways.

243
00:21:04,919 --> 00:21:18,099
But we've had a couple of portfolio companies who raised during, you know, they put a sizable amount in Bitcoin and that has been single handedly the best thing that they have done.

244
00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:21,499
Not only that they're they're doing well as a company. Right.

245
00:21:21,559 --> 00:21:30,399
But it just kind of multiplies their success and likelihood of success because they've implemented a Bitcoin treasury.

246
00:21:30,399 --> 00:21:38,519
So I think that's something that not everyone really thinks about is that when you invest in, you know, just off the top of my head, you know, like the orange pill app.

247
00:21:38,699 --> 00:21:43,779
I mean, he's got five Bitcoin on his balance sheet or so, you know, I mean, that's great.

248
00:21:44,379 --> 00:21:46,399
You know, he's not losing money every month.

249
00:21:46,419 --> 00:21:49,919
He's running a little profitable company and he's got five Bitcoin, you know.

250
00:21:49,979 --> 00:21:57,539
So there's definitely like something baked in there as far as the treasury aspect of it for for additional upside.

251
00:21:57,539 --> 00:21:59,579
And by the way, you know, it goes the other way.

252
00:22:00,399 --> 00:22:26,219
Absolutely. Yeah. I think, I think the other interesting thing is too, and I think this is where I think there's like, like two camps here. I think there's definitely this, like, there's this like bare metal camp where you're, you're kind of building on the Bitcoin protocol. And it probably takes a little bit more time to, to, to, to build on this aspect, kind of like more like the block stream side where you're like, you're actually building on the, on the tech itself.

253
00:22:26,219 --> 00:22:31,079
and then there's this like kind of like what you said there's like this uh the the the which the

254
00:22:31,079 --> 00:22:34,819
bitcoin app like what material is building right it's like uh it's building on top of it and it

255
00:22:34,819 --> 00:22:40,119
has revenue and it's it's more of like a technology startup that that leverages bitcoin has a bitcoin

256
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:46,599
treasury all that kind of stuff um and i i kind of see these two camps right and and i think that's

257
00:22:46,599 --> 00:22:53,619
what's the most interesting part about it is like there's that's where i think the the incentives

258
00:22:53,619 --> 00:22:59,039
are when it comes to investing in Bitcoin companies is like some just take a little bit

259
00:22:59,039 --> 00:23:07,759
longer to bake. And then there's these other ones that they are investable, right? They're just a

260
00:23:07,759 --> 00:23:14,279
different sort of beast, I would say, right? And you're more investing in the founder, you're

261
00:23:14,279 --> 00:23:18,619
investing in the idea and the business plan. And this one's going to take a little bit more time

262
00:23:18,619 --> 00:23:23,419
to bake because it's actually investing in the protocol itself. Can you talk about that,

263
00:23:23,539 --> 00:23:28,499
because I feel like you see a lot of decks, you see a lot of business plans, you see a lot of

264
00:23:28,499 --> 00:23:34,139
founders. Talk about these different types of strategies and these different types of

265
00:23:34,139 --> 00:23:40,159
founders that are out there. So in terms of a founder and pitching, and by the way,

266
00:23:40,159 --> 00:23:44,199
everyone pitches, right? Even VCs pitch. It's not something that's often talked about,

267
00:23:44,199 --> 00:23:48,719
But VCs have to go to people asking for money, you know, and nobody likes to ask for money.

268
00:23:48,999 --> 00:23:51,139
Maybe Alex Svetsky, but he's the only one.

269
00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:53,939
Is that a shot at Svetsky?

270
00:23:54,499 --> 00:23:57,999
He's a friend, and I've never known somebody who's—

271
00:23:57,999 --> 00:23:59,099
Why does everybody take shots at Svetsky all the time?

272
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:00,519
He's so damn good at fundraising.

273
00:24:00,779 --> 00:24:01,939
I like Svetsky.

274
00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:02,859
We all do.

275
00:24:03,239 --> 00:24:03,739
We all do.

276
00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:04,499
It's just a joke.

277
00:24:04,899 --> 00:24:06,259
He's very good at fundraising.

278
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:09,279
But, you know, who are you talking to?

279
00:24:09,379 --> 00:24:12,259
So as a founder, you know people's flavor, right?

280
00:24:12,259 --> 00:24:14,199
and you know what they like.

281
00:24:15,039 --> 00:24:19,619
I don't particularly do much mining.

282
00:24:20,319 --> 00:24:23,799
You know, mining is not really my favorite part of Bitcoin.

283
00:24:24,019 --> 00:24:25,939
It's not the most interesting to me.

284
00:24:26,039 --> 00:24:27,259
It's not the most investable.

285
00:24:27,699 --> 00:24:29,639
You know, it's just, it's not my wheelhouse.

286
00:24:30,099 --> 00:24:32,639
So, hey, we got stranded natural gas

287
00:24:32,639 --> 00:24:33,619
in the middle of Nevada

288
00:24:33,619 --> 00:24:35,079
and we got a shipping container.

289
00:24:35,299 --> 00:24:37,119
Like, that's just not for me.

290
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:38,879
I don't know anything about that.

291
00:24:39,279 --> 00:24:41,079
You know, hey, this is really cool.

292
00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:47,039
It bridges fiat and Bitcoin and you can spin this wheel and you get sats back and here's how it works.

293
00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:48,099
Like, I'm all about it.

294
00:24:48,399 --> 00:24:49,519
You know, let's go.

295
00:24:49,979 --> 00:24:53,059
Or something a little bit more fun, you know.

296
00:24:53,339 --> 00:24:58,439
So there are certain people like Max Webster who would also be a great guest for you to have on.

297
00:24:58,739 --> 00:25:02,699
You know, he purposefully wants to be the first check.

298
00:25:02,979 --> 00:25:06,319
He wants to be the first check in as early as possible.

299
00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:09,799
And he is like it's either going to a billion or zero.

300
00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:14,839
he's like and he's totally cool with that that for me is a little scary you know i'm never the

301
00:25:14,839 --> 00:25:20,779
the first check uh kind of person i i like this is pleb lab right unless it's pleb lab

302
00:25:20,779 --> 00:25:31,699
we finally got a sponsor can you believe it vintech they're a legal firm out of dallas texas

303
00:25:31,699 --> 00:25:39,379
who pleb lab uses we actually use jim who is this amazing gentleman central texas lawyer

304
00:25:40,079 --> 00:25:40,699
Straight shooter.

305
00:25:41,659 --> 00:25:47,679
And he does legal expertise, and he has this amazing thing called Vintech.

306
00:25:48,099 --> 00:25:51,339
It's a place where you can get access to legal forms.

307
00:25:51,579 --> 00:25:55,239
You don't have to use ChatGBT to spin up some kind of gibberish.

308
00:25:55,239 --> 00:25:58,879
You can actually get these legal forms that are there already pre-built.

309
00:25:59,339 --> 00:26:02,299
You get access to his consulting two times a month.

310
00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:09,119
There's 25% off all his legal work that he applies to the network of attorneys that he knows.

311
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,379
There's no long-term commitment.

312
00:26:10,599 --> 00:26:12,219
It's all for $199 a month.

313
00:26:13,579 --> 00:26:16,199
He also has this other thing called Vintech Plus,

314
00:26:16,719 --> 00:26:20,279
which is three hours of additional services per month,

315
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,339
which is contract review, drafting, LLC, corporate formation,

316
00:26:23,459 --> 00:26:24,179
all that kind of stuff.

317
00:26:24,399 --> 00:26:27,739
That's for $999 a month.

318
00:26:28,539 --> 00:26:31,979
And it's affordable business legal stuff for startups, founders like yourself.

319
00:26:32,379 --> 00:26:36,539
Use the code PLEBLAB at myvintech.com and get 10% off your subscription.

320
00:26:36,539 --> 00:26:38,999
and a big thanks to Jim and the Vintech team

321
00:26:38,999 --> 00:26:40,159
for backing the builder community

322
00:26:40,159 --> 00:26:41,659
and helping us push things forward.

323
00:26:42,219 --> 00:26:43,399
All right, let's get back to the show.

324
00:26:45,159 --> 00:26:48,499
I'm not usually the first check, the first check in,

325
00:26:48,559 --> 00:26:49,719
but that's what he likes to do.

326
00:26:49,759 --> 00:26:51,579
He wants to be as early as possible.

327
00:26:51,919 --> 00:26:54,979
So if you're in that position as that early

328
00:26:54,979 --> 00:26:56,819
and you might think, oh no, it's too early.

329
00:26:56,959 --> 00:26:58,299
Like who doesn't invest in this?

330
00:26:58,379 --> 00:27:00,399
Maybe there's some people, maybe like myself,

331
00:27:00,459 --> 00:27:01,899
who likes to see a little traction

332
00:27:01,899 --> 00:27:03,979
and a little revenue and an MVP.

333
00:27:04,379 --> 00:27:05,979
You can go to someone like Max,

334
00:27:05,979 --> 00:27:09,699
who like will just admit that that he likes those type of deals.

335
00:27:10,279 --> 00:27:15,359
You know, some funds have a mandate where they can only invest in later stuff, right?

336
00:27:15,399 --> 00:27:16,959
Maybe series A and later.

337
00:27:17,499 --> 00:27:21,399
So if you're not there, you're kind of wasting your time, you know, pitching to these people

338
00:27:21,399 --> 00:27:24,279
because you kind of have to know everyone's flavor.

339
00:27:24,999 --> 00:27:31,619
So, yeah, you can if you're building on, you know, the protocol level or something like Blockstream,

340
00:27:31,959 --> 00:27:35,899
which Blockstream's businesses, there's so much going on there.

341
00:27:35,979 --> 00:27:40,599
You know, they have Blockstream Capital Partners where they make investments and things.

342
00:27:40,759 --> 00:27:43,319
You know, they just made an acquisition, I think, two weeks ago.

343
00:27:43,899 --> 00:27:45,359
They had a mining unit.

344
00:27:45,479 --> 00:27:48,379
I think that they spun it off or did something with it.

345
00:27:48,679 --> 00:27:53,859
You know, they're kind of like the Cisco Systems conglomerate of the Bitcoin space.

346
00:27:54,579 --> 00:27:59,019
So, I mean, there's just so much going on with Bitcoin.

347
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:05,079
You know, whether it's something like Scare City, you know, they're doing the Sotheby's, the art and their whole thing.

348
00:28:05,079 --> 00:28:18,019
whether it's education and community, the accelerator sort of model, like what you're doing, a lot of events and a lot of value to people who need it.

349
00:28:18,859 --> 00:28:24,839
There's things like that. You know, there's stuff like OpenNode, ZapRite, which came out of PlebLab.

350
00:28:25,279 --> 00:28:29,539
You know, they're doing great, you know, as a as a payments company.

351
00:28:30,419 --> 00:28:32,879
There's just, there's so much going on in Bitcoin.

352
00:28:33,159 --> 00:28:36,059
There's so many different areas that if you are a founder,

353
00:28:36,479 --> 00:28:39,599
you should find whose flavor you're looking at.

354
00:28:39,859 --> 00:28:42,239
You know, something that's like incredibly technical.

355
00:28:43,419 --> 00:28:47,299
You know, maybe Stillmark is a great person,

356
00:28:47,859 --> 00:28:49,779
a great fund and great fit for you.

357
00:28:49,779 --> 00:28:50,879
You know, if it's incredibly,

358
00:28:51,179 --> 00:28:52,819
if it's an incredibly technical deal.

359
00:28:54,399 --> 00:28:57,759
Because Vcash over there is incredibly technical

360
00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:02,099
and they have the AI, ML background and all these other things.

361
00:29:02,259 --> 00:29:05,939
So if you have that, you know, they invested in Amboss, for example.

362
00:29:06,299 --> 00:29:09,819
You know, I love Amboss, but they saw everything they were doing.

363
00:29:09,819 --> 00:29:13,779
Now the company is on fire with a bunch of different products, you know.

364
00:29:14,739 --> 00:29:19,099
So I would say that that is kind of the most important thing

365
00:29:19,099 --> 00:29:21,239
is knowing the flavor of who you're pitching

366
00:29:21,239 --> 00:29:24,199
and whether it's something that might be for them.

367
00:29:24,199 --> 00:29:32,059
where's the where's the best resource to get a lot of that um obviously we have these technical

368
00:29:32,059 --> 00:29:37,359
conferences and and you know there's accelerators like wolf and blah blah but like where where else

369
00:29:37,359 --> 00:29:44,259
can they get like you know vc help outside of just like going to to websites like lightning

370
00:29:44,259 --> 00:29:50,939
ventures or like still mark or like some of these other ones well but like what do you but what do

371
00:29:50,939 --> 00:29:55,439
you mean do you mean like like where can where can they find where can they find you guys like

372
00:29:55,439 --> 00:30:02,699
where can they find like muz or like of the where can where can they find a list of vcs yeah um

373
00:30:02,699 --> 00:30:12,279
boy um maybe the free version of crunchbase has some kind of filters where you can none of these

374
00:30:12,279 --> 00:30:18,859
filters also have bitcoin by the way every one of these filters is like crypto so if you filter

375
00:30:18,859 --> 00:30:23,959
it down to crypto and you filter it down in north america and you know and you flip it down to early

376
00:30:23,959 --> 00:30:31,139
stage you'll probably get everyone in crypto and maybe you'll see us and 1031 and still mark and

377
00:30:31,139 --> 00:30:37,719
all them in there too but they don't really separate it by bitcoin yeah yeah we have we have

378
00:30:37,719 --> 00:30:45,219
a resource inside our notion um for for the people inside the lab that we use for like our list and

379
00:30:45,219 --> 00:31:03,118
stuff but um yeah we i guess we should i guess we should open it up for everybody i guess that be helpful but i don know if people want their information out there though I always scared about that too Yeah You know what I mean So you talking about helping Pleb Lab companies

380
00:31:03,118 --> 00:31:05,118
with their initial outreach and fundraising?

381
00:31:05,118 --> 00:31:08,237
No, I guess Pleb Book kind of already does that that we have out there.

382
00:31:08,398 --> 00:31:10,518
It kind of gives the websites and stuff.

383
00:31:11,358 --> 00:31:13,078
So I guess we kind of already have that out there.

384
00:31:13,338 --> 00:31:15,438
But, yeah, I guess that's enough.

385
00:31:15,438 --> 00:31:34,998
Well, what I would love to see Pleb Lab do, if I get to be selfish here, is I would love to see you guys do something better or different than Bitcoin AI Startup Lab or Outlier Ventures do.

386
00:31:35,758 --> 00:31:43,038
The Outlier Ventures cohort, their accelerator, it is, in my opinion, a terrible deal.

387
00:31:43,838 --> 00:31:44,957
What is that?

388
00:31:45,438 --> 00:31:46,658
Outlier Ventures.

389
00:31:47,098 --> 00:31:49,477
I mean, they definitely have a Bitcoin focus too.

390
00:31:50,658 --> 00:31:56,278
It's crypto, a lot of DeFi, a lot of things that we would never be interested in.

391
00:31:56,538 --> 00:31:59,697
But sometimes if a decent company goes through there,

392
00:31:59,737 --> 00:32:02,278
I actually think Joltz went through Outlier.

393
00:32:02,758 --> 00:32:04,217
And it's a terrible deal.

394
00:32:04,298 --> 00:32:06,457
It's like 100K for 10% of your business.

395
00:32:06,678 --> 00:32:10,158
It's like the worst deal on the planet, something like that.

396
00:32:10,158 --> 00:32:17,878
and you know they get a lot of submissions and they have a demo day and they invite the investors

397
00:32:17,878 --> 00:32:22,638
and they do everything they do and they're stacking equity and you know it's a real program

398
00:32:22,638 --> 00:32:27,158
you know I just don't think it's a very good deal for the founder I wouldn't be able to recommend it

399
00:32:27,158 --> 00:32:35,538
nearly never and then you know you have the pre-accelerator bitcoin startup bitcoin AI

400
00:32:35,538 --> 00:32:38,237
thing, startup lab or whatever.

401
00:32:38,518 --> 00:32:40,898
And I think they rebranded and they added AI.

402
00:32:41,138 --> 00:32:44,498
And they're very, like, there's a nice guy, like Albert or whatever.

403
00:32:44,658 --> 00:32:45,237
I've done a bunch of.

404
00:32:45,237 --> 00:32:45,998
Oh, I know Albert.

405
00:32:46,278 --> 00:32:47,438
Yeah, he's super nice.

406
00:32:48,638 --> 00:32:49,618
He's not in Austin.

407
00:32:49,717 --> 00:32:51,418
He's in Asia somewhere, I think.

408
00:32:52,178 --> 00:32:52,798
Unless maybe he splits his time.

409
00:32:52,798 --> 00:32:53,818
Are you talking about startup labs?

410
00:32:54,418 --> 00:32:56,678
Bitcoin AI startup lab.

411
00:32:56,678 --> 00:32:59,237
It's like a pre-accelerator where they take.

412
00:32:59,258 --> 00:33:00,217
Bitcoin startup labs?

413
00:33:01,618 --> 00:33:02,737
BTC startup labs?

414
00:33:03,558 --> 00:33:04,078
Tell me about that one.

415
00:33:04,298 --> 00:33:05,457
That might be something else.

416
00:33:05,538 --> 00:33:06,378
I have to look it up.

417
00:33:07,178 --> 00:33:10,758
But this guy is based out of Asia somewhere.

418
00:33:12,098 --> 00:33:18,518
And, you know, you can go in there as a builder with, like, no incorporation or anything.

419
00:33:18,878 --> 00:33:20,358
And he runs a cohort.

420
00:33:20,858 --> 00:33:24,798
And there's a lot of co-founder matching and some other good things that go on there.

421
00:33:24,838 --> 00:33:27,338
And I don't know what the actual content is like.

422
00:33:27,378 --> 00:33:30,338
I don't know how good it is or, you know, whatever it is.

423
00:33:30,578 --> 00:33:33,538
But it's a really cool idea, you know.

424
00:33:33,538 --> 00:33:39,858
And I got invited to all their demo days and, like, I tried to tune in for it or whatever.

425
00:33:40,078 --> 00:33:49,358
And it would be cool if you did a quarterly sort of demo thing like that, you know, and invited all of us to it.

426
00:33:49,498 --> 00:33:50,278
I mean, that would be fun.

427
00:33:50,278 --> 00:33:51,838
Yeah, we just need capital to do it, Moss.

428
00:33:51,878 --> 00:33:52,438
That's the thing.

429
00:33:52,778 --> 00:33:54,118
Everyone needs capital.

430
00:33:54,197 --> 00:33:55,178
That's the problem.

431
00:33:55,818 --> 00:33:56,018
Yeah.

432
00:33:56,477 --> 00:33:58,578
How do we get all that capital, Carr?

433
00:33:59,398 --> 00:33:59,898
I don't know.

434
00:33:59,957 --> 00:34:00,477
You tell me.

435
00:34:00,477 --> 00:34:08,238
using no i mean right now we're doing so so right now we're doing a startup school and we're kind

436
00:34:08,238 --> 00:34:13,118
of building this primer right now and so far we're in product right now we're about to finish

437
00:34:13,118 --> 00:34:18,218
up that and then we're going to do revenue and uh and then that's going to be and then once we have

438
00:34:18,218 --> 00:34:22,858
this like kind of primer built then we can do what you're saying is then we can start doing these

439
00:34:22,858 --> 00:34:27,418
quarterly things and then see how that works because because i don't like doing things i don't

440
00:34:27,418 --> 00:34:31,358
know what I'm doing. You know what I mean? So we got to do these. I mean, we're Bitcoiners. We got

441
00:34:31,358 --> 00:34:36,998
to test this stuff out. We can't just, you know, we're not like these guys where we can just like,

442
00:34:37,118 --> 00:34:40,278
we don't know how, we don't want, we don't have the, I don't have the experience to know how to

443
00:34:40,278 --> 00:34:44,918
do this stuff. And I don't want to just guess, like, you know what I mean? I don't want to run

444
00:34:44,918 --> 00:34:49,438
without knowing how to walk first. So we got to build these things out slowly. So I want to be

445
00:34:49,438 --> 00:34:53,918
intentional about what we're doing. So once we go through this startup school, we'll at least have

446
00:34:53,918 --> 00:34:55,558
like the primer of what to do.

447
00:34:55,918 --> 00:34:58,618
And then we'll take out all the stuff that we knew that works

448
00:34:58,618 --> 00:34:59,538
and then what doesn't work.

449
00:34:59,818 --> 00:35:01,477
And then we'll do what you're talking about,

450
00:35:01,518 --> 00:35:02,338
like the quarter thing.

451
00:35:02,518 --> 00:35:06,258
And then we'll at least know exactly like what to optimize for it.

452
00:35:06,977 --> 00:35:07,298
Yeah.

453
00:35:07,398 --> 00:35:09,618
So can we talk about the startup school for a minute?

454
00:35:09,977 --> 00:35:10,657
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

455
00:35:10,758 --> 00:35:11,418
What do you want to talk about?

456
00:35:11,438 --> 00:35:11,977
How does it work?

457
00:35:12,038 --> 00:35:13,218
How many weeks is it?

458
00:35:13,278 --> 00:35:14,818
What are you thinking on the material?

459
00:35:15,177 --> 00:35:16,657
What are some of the modules?

460
00:35:17,477 --> 00:35:20,618
Yeah, so far I think it's going really well.

461
00:35:20,618 --> 00:35:23,898
So we started off with product.

462
00:35:24,258 --> 00:35:25,418
So month one, I'm looking over here

463
00:35:25,418 --> 00:35:26,218
because we have the whiteboard.

464
00:35:26,338 --> 00:35:27,518
So month one is product.

465
00:35:27,838 --> 00:35:29,138
The second month is revenue.

466
00:35:29,698 --> 00:35:33,477
The third month, hang on.

467
00:35:33,778 --> 00:35:35,177
No, first month is foundation.

468
00:35:35,718 --> 00:35:36,818
Second month is product.

469
00:35:37,298 --> 00:35:38,198
Third month is revenue.

470
00:35:38,457 --> 00:35:39,518
The fourth month is pitch.

471
00:35:39,657 --> 00:35:41,118
And that's going to end with startup day.

472
00:35:41,558 --> 00:35:43,157
Wow, four months.

473
00:35:43,377 --> 00:35:43,798
Four months.

474
00:35:43,898 --> 00:35:46,198
So that's why I'm saying we're going really broad, right?

475
00:35:46,258 --> 00:35:47,258
It's like really long.

476
00:35:47,258 --> 00:35:55,698
but um once once uh once we went through foundation that was all the the the basic stuff of like llc

477
00:35:55,698 --> 00:36:02,177
equity uh c corp all that stuff like bitcoin narrative what we were just talking about earlier

478
00:36:02,177 --> 00:36:06,918
about the baseline all that stuff like really the ethos about what it is to be a build a bitcoin

479
00:36:06,918 --> 00:36:12,118
company especially a club lab like a club lab bitcoin company is a different type of bitcoin

480
00:36:12,118 --> 00:36:17,138
company than like a you know no offense to other bitcoin companies that are listening to this but

481
00:36:17,258 --> 00:36:17,918
It's different.

482
00:36:18,138 --> 00:36:22,157
When you're building a PubLab company, it's different than, or Bitcoin project in PubLab

483
00:36:22,157 --> 00:36:24,578
is different than a Bitcoin project outside of PubLab.

484
00:36:25,018 --> 00:36:29,338
Like the way we look at each other, the way we look at companies in PubLab is different

485
00:36:29,338 --> 00:36:33,977
than companies outside of PubLab or projects outside of PubLab.

486
00:36:34,338 --> 00:36:37,438
We're like the Navy SEALs, basically.

487
00:36:37,898 --> 00:36:39,377
Everybody else is the Navy out there.

488
00:36:39,477 --> 00:36:40,338
We're the Navy SEALs.

489
00:36:41,038 --> 00:36:42,638
I mean, we have a high bar for a reason.

490
00:36:43,838 --> 00:36:44,438
I love it.

491
00:36:44,798 --> 00:36:46,798
Well, it's just how we feel about each other.

492
00:36:47,258 --> 00:36:48,718
How did you source the submissions?

493
00:36:50,358 --> 00:36:54,398
We used, what's the name of the thing?

494
00:36:55,318 --> 00:36:58,738
No, but I mean, how did you, I mean, did you get many builders?

495
00:36:58,738 --> 00:36:59,618
No, not that many.

496
00:37:00,238 --> 00:37:02,177
It's like 20, 20.

497
00:37:03,778 --> 00:37:08,998
So we went through foundation and then we're doing product right now.

498
00:37:10,258 --> 00:37:11,477
So we're going through that.

499
00:37:11,558 --> 00:37:13,798
And then each one has a book that we're reading with it.

500
00:37:14,738 --> 00:37:17,157
It's based off of the material that we're doing with it.

501
00:37:17,258 --> 00:37:22,638
And, um, and then Keon's advising me, Teresa's advising me, and then we're just going through it.

502
00:37:22,778 --> 00:37:26,238
And then next month we're doing revenue and then we're going to end with pitch.

503
00:37:26,338 --> 00:37:27,358
Pitch will probably be the shortest.

504
00:37:27,898 --> 00:37:31,578
Um, and then, um, yeah, we're just using the builders in the lab.

505
00:37:31,638 --> 00:37:36,938
We're using our little network that we have club labians, I guess, that we have in our Slack.

506
00:37:37,318 --> 00:37:38,977
And then we're just structuring all together.

507
00:37:39,157 --> 00:37:42,377
It's just like a more hyper focused version of top builder.

508
00:37:42,498 --> 00:37:45,957
The only difference was top builder is more of like an incubator, if you could say.

509
00:37:45,957 --> 00:37:51,838
and and this is more intentional the school's more actually more of a type of accelerator if

510
00:37:51,838 --> 00:37:57,318
you want to call it that it's just more focused and from what we've seen i mean you saw hustle

511
00:37:57,318 --> 00:38:03,457
like hustle is just like dude you should see it now it's it's far far better now and it's it's in

512
00:38:03,457 --> 00:38:11,718
test flight now it's sick so i'm i'm we're super we're super like it's it's going great and so

513
00:38:11,718 --> 00:38:15,877
i love that you show me this because this could probably be the next thing that we get to

514
00:38:15,877 --> 00:38:18,318
because if we can run that quarterly now,

515
00:38:18,477 --> 00:38:21,578
maybe we can shrink this down from four months to a quarterly thing,

516
00:38:22,177 --> 00:38:23,957
and then maybe we can get to that.

517
00:38:25,398 --> 00:38:26,418
That's cool, man.

518
00:38:26,618 --> 00:38:28,477
All right, so look, I know it's your interview.

519
00:38:28,598 --> 00:38:29,078
I'll be quiet.

520
00:38:29,318 --> 00:38:30,957
But listen, what in there has got you excited?

521
00:38:31,098 --> 00:38:33,498
Can you talk about one of the projects that maybe stands out?

522
00:38:33,558 --> 00:38:35,718
Is there one in particular that maybe comes to mind?

523
00:38:36,677 --> 00:38:39,118
Because, I mean, if you want to talk about tip of the sphere

524
00:38:39,118 --> 00:38:41,758
for Bitcoin builders, you're there.

525
00:38:41,758 --> 00:38:47,318
okay well i would like i don't i don't think i don't think we're there i think i think austin's

526
00:38:47,318 --> 00:38:54,038
there so i realize it's just the austin the the austin bitcoin scene is there i don't necessarily

527
00:38:54,038 --> 00:38:59,157
think it's plub blub i think the austin bitcoin scene is there i think i think i think austin's

528
00:38:59,157 --> 00:39:05,778
bitcoin scene is the leader when it comes to the tip of the spear um and and i think and i think

529
00:39:05,778 --> 00:39:09,938
what we're seeing here in town is now that we have bitcoin park and that we have nifty down the street

530
00:39:09,938 --> 00:39:14,558
with her Bitcoin Plus Plus studio.

531
00:39:15,198 --> 00:39:15,898
And then we have,

532
00:39:16,457 --> 00:39:18,418
so there's another hackerspace being built out

533
00:39:18,418 --> 00:39:19,918
way out West now.

534
00:39:20,298 --> 00:39:21,977
And these are like Web5 guys.

535
00:39:23,118 --> 00:39:24,457
And we don't know what they're doing.

536
00:39:24,558 --> 00:39:25,138
They could be CIA.

537
00:39:25,278 --> 00:39:25,618
We don't know.

538
00:39:26,618 --> 00:39:29,698
And then we have Capital Factory doing their thing.

539
00:39:29,918 --> 00:39:30,598
And those guys always,

540
00:39:31,158 --> 00:39:31,857
but they're not doing,

541
00:39:31,938 --> 00:39:33,058
they're doing AI stuff now.

542
00:39:33,318 --> 00:39:35,038
And then we have Antler down the street,

543
00:39:35,238 --> 00:39:36,538
which are friends of the lab.

544
00:39:37,038 --> 00:39:38,578
And then we even have Block here now.

545
00:39:38,578 --> 00:39:44,918
they're doing like secret meetups now um and then we have um who else then we have some new ai guys

546
00:39:44,918 --> 00:39:51,118
now and then i've been making friends with the react guys over here um so i've just realized that

547
00:39:51,118 --> 00:39:56,938
like uh the bitcoin scene is just um it's just it's just and then we have unchained obviously

548
00:39:56,938 --> 00:40:02,098
and then i think the bitcoin scene is just it's just where it's at here it's just now everybody's

549
00:40:02,098 --> 00:40:06,738
just a lot more quieter now i think it's kind of what and then we have the round rock san antonio

550
00:40:06,738 --> 00:40:10,638
and then all the other meetups that happen that are just offline now.

551
00:40:11,718 --> 00:40:14,118
But it's a remote program, right?

552
00:40:14,838 --> 00:40:15,457
Yeah, it's remote.

553
00:40:16,438 --> 00:40:17,898
Yeah, everything's remote.

554
00:40:18,098 --> 00:40:24,258
But I'm saying like the tip of the spear for Austin is like it's just a big Bitcoin scene now.

555
00:40:24,618 --> 00:40:27,578
And PubLab Lab is the only one focused on startups.

556
00:40:28,377 --> 00:40:29,977
And that's where our focus is.

557
00:40:29,977 --> 00:40:35,638
I mean, we're doing community stuff, but it's not at the same level as we were four years ago or three years ago.

558
00:40:35,638 --> 00:40:36,698
We're just doing startups.

559
00:40:37,138 --> 00:40:39,078
That's all I want to work on now is just startups.

560
00:40:40,038 --> 00:40:41,658
We're better at doing startups anyway.

561
00:40:41,898 --> 00:40:43,377
Me and Keon like doing that kind of stuff.

562
00:40:43,477 --> 00:40:44,518
Teresa likes doing that stuff.

563
00:40:45,838 --> 00:40:51,158
Well, I can't wait to check it out and see what comes out of there.

564
00:40:52,098 --> 00:40:56,138
Yeah, I mean, so you're doing the startup stuff too with Thunderfunder.

565
00:40:56,258 --> 00:40:57,518
So let's talk about that.

566
00:40:57,718 --> 00:40:59,638
Tell me how that's going.

567
00:40:59,638 --> 00:41:05,218
I mean, I've been seeing some of the email updates,

568
00:41:05,218 --> 00:41:07,957
But, dude, these are big names.

569
00:41:08,058 --> 00:41:09,177
These aren't like small names.

570
00:41:10,357 --> 00:41:11,438
You got OrangePail app.

571
00:41:12,198 --> 00:41:13,498
You got EllenBits.

572
00:41:13,658 --> 00:41:15,038
You got even SimplyBitcoin.

573
00:41:15,857 --> 00:41:16,778
Niko coming.

574
00:41:17,338 --> 00:41:18,098
That's huge.

575
00:41:18,457 --> 00:41:18,838
Hopefully.

576
00:41:20,078 --> 00:41:20,877
We'll see.

577
00:41:21,318 --> 00:41:22,477
What's going on with this?

578
00:41:23,218 --> 00:41:26,398
What is ThunderFunder and then like how is this going?

579
00:41:26,658 --> 00:41:29,218
Well, ThunderFunder would complement PlebLab very well.

580
00:41:30,058 --> 00:41:33,677
Well, ThunderFunder is an equity crowdfunding portal.

581
00:41:33,677 --> 00:41:37,078
and this is not like donation.

582
00:41:37,338 --> 00:41:38,918
This is not Geyser or Patreon,

583
00:41:39,438 --> 00:41:41,658
but everyone would love those companies

584
00:41:41,658 --> 00:41:42,977
for whatever they're doing,

585
00:41:43,118 --> 00:41:44,698
but this is actually equity.

586
00:41:44,957 --> 00:41:47,838
So it's kind of like the angel investing syndicate

587
00:41:47,838 --> 00:41:50,818
in the same way that you can invest

588
00:41:50,818 --> 00:41:55,838
and actually get equity in these companies.

589
00:41:55,838 --> 00:41:58,218
So it's completely regulated

590
00:41:58,218 --> 00:42:09,058
and that is a new experience is going through the regulations that we have to deal with.

591
00:42:10,078 --> 00:42:15,658
You can raise up to $5 million as a company within a 12-month period.

592
00:42:16,338 --> 00:42:19,138
So let's just say I'm just going to pick on Swan.

593
00:42:19,138 --> 00:42:25,477
Let's just say Swan was going to go public in Q1 of next year

594
00:42:25,477 --> 00:42:27,578
and they wanted to do a pleb round.

595
00:42:27,578 --> 00:42:32,357
They wanted to give a pre-IPO chance for everyone to invest, right?

596
00:42:32,438 --> 00:42:36,158
Thunderfunder would be the best spot for that to happen.

597
00:42:36,318 --> 00:42:42,438
And they could raise $5 million from the plebs before they go public, right?

598
00:42:42,658 --> 00:42:47,018
Now, conversely, you can do small deals too.

599
00:42:47,018 --> 00:42:57,457
So say that there's a really cool company that's going through Top Builder or that wins Top Builder or something like that.

600
00:42:57,578 --> 00:43:04,778
And, you know, we did a deal, but maybe it didn't quite, you know, have the oomph of something like a strike or a swan.

601
00:43:04,918 --> 00:43:11,098
Maybe they only raised 30 or 40,000 bucks, you know, but it was still a successful transaction.

602
00:43:11,258 --> 00:43:13,098
And they got 30 or 40 grand.

603
00:43:13,298 --> 00:43:17,298
And those people who invested definitely have equity in that company.

604
00:43:17,778 --> 00:43:26,457
And to kind of roll those out, it's harder to do the small deals, especially with like investor sentiment the way that it is.

605
00:43:26,457 --> 00:43:29,977
we're actually rebuilding the entire platform right now.

606
00:43:30,198 --> 00:43:31,518
It's going to be sick.

607
00:43:31,938 --> 00:43:33,258
The Figma's look sick.

608
00:43:33,898 --> 00:43:37,138
Actually, Austin, your buddy over there, PlebDev,

609
00:43:37,438 --> 00:43:39,457
actually referred us a killer developer.

610
00:43:39,818 --> 00:43:41,558
We actually just talked to him today.

611
00:43:42,438 --> 00:43:44,838
Hopefully he's willing to work for the poverty line,

612
00:43:44,918 --> 00:43:46,377
which is what we all get paid over here.

613
00:43:47,818 --> 00:43:51,198
But, you know, it's going to look like a cool LinkedIn,

614
00:43:51,198 --> 00:43:53,998
but for Bitcoiners, there's going to be a troll box.

615
00:43:54,138 --> 00:43:55,477
There's going to be all this fun shit.

616
00:43:55,618 --> 00:43:56,418
Like, it's going to be dope.

617
00:43:56,457 --> 00:44:00,738
and we built the entire tech stack.

618
00:44:00,957 --> 00:44:03,258
So no backend provider, no nothing.

619
00:44:03,518 --> 00:44:05,018
We can do Bitcoin payments.

620
00:44:05,158 --> 00:44:06,798
We don't have to deal with any bull crap.

621
00:44:07,357 --> 00:44:09,177
And that's really what we're working on

622
00:44:09,177 --> 00:44:11,798
because when the investor sentiment isn't there,

623
00:44:12,118 --> 00:44:14,838
they say bear markets are for building.

624
00:44:14,838 --> 00:44:16,177
It's not a bear market.

625
00:44:16,477 --> 00:44:19,098
But for investing in Bitcoin startups,

626
00:44:19,198 --> 00:44:23,198
it's definitely not a bull market, at least not yet.

627
00:44:23,258 --> 00:44:25,278
It lags the price.

628
00:44:25,278 --> 00:44:26,957
It lags everything else.

629
00:44:27,078 --> 00:44:28,677
And now there's a lot of distractions.

630
00:44:28,977 --> 00:44:37,538
You know, someone can just invest in one of these treasury companies, you know, and that's kind of stealing some of the show, you know, which is fine.

631
00:44:37,718 --> 00:44:38,718
So we're heads down.

632
00:44:39,058 --> 00:44:40,698
We're heads down just building on that.

633
00:44:40,957 --> 00:44:41,918
So that's Thunder Funder.

634
00:44:42,038 --> 00:44:52,477
And hopefully we get it to a point where we can have 10 deals that are there, you know, and maybe those are 10 companies that are all going through one of your cohorts.

635
00:44:53,038 --> 00:44:54,957
You know, that's that would be the goal.

636
00:44:54,957 --> 00:44:58,538
But right now we're taking it a little slow.

637
00:44:58,677 --> 00:45:00,218
So, yeah, we did a deal for Jolts.

638
00:45:00,418 --> 00:45:02,398
We did a deal for the Orange Pill app.

639
00:45:03,177 --> 00:45:05,498
And that's kind of it for right now.

640
00:45:06,457 --> 00:45:12,318
What are some of the learnings you guys have acquired from, you know,

641
00:45:12,318 --> 00:45:15,518
seeing Orange Pill app and Jolts go through there?

642
00:45:16,857 --> 00:45:18,638
They seem like they raised a lot of money, though.

643
00:45:18,977 --> 00:45:20,138
Well, not that much.

644
00:45:20,138 --> 00:45:28,058
You know, if they raised $120,000 or $150,000 each or so, maybe somewhere around there, you know, it's still not like a ton, right?

645
00:45:29,877 --> 00:45:31,158
What are some of the learnings?

646
00:45:31,177 --> 00:45:33,058
I actually can't remember the numbers off the top of my head.

647
00:45:33,177 --> 00:45:34,857
Don't quote me, but somewhere around there.

648
00:45:34,877 --> 00:45:36,038
I think it's online.

649
00:45:36,198 --> 00:45:36,658
I think it's published.

650
00:45:36,658 --> 00:45:37,857
Yeah, I see it right here.

651
00:45:37,938 --> 00:45:39,457
It's like $102,000, $183,000.

652
00:45:39,618 --> 00:45:39,877
Yeah.

653
00:45:39,998 --> 00:45:42,818
I mean, it's a lot for a pleb raise for sure, right?

654
00:45:43,177 --> 00:45:44,058
Yeah, why not?

655
00:45:44,058 --> 00:45:54,677
You know, but when you think about if they're raising, you know, if they're out to raise one point three million and they get one hundred grand from our platform, that's fine.

656
00:45:54,738 --> 00:45:57,618
We're still eight percent or whatever of the of the entire round.

657
00:45:57,758 --> 00:46:00,098
You know, we can help fill those things out.

658
00:46:00,658 --> 00:46:03,778
They also have a captive audience of people who love their company.

659
00:46:03,778 --> 00:46:10,998
So when they do send out their updates and ask for help or, hey, we just released this product or, hey, sign up now or whatever they want to do.

660
00:46:10,998 --> 00:46:16,898
So, you know, we want to do bigger deals, obviously.

661
00:46:17,377 --> 00:46:30,836
You know we want to do deals that are going to raise a couple hundred thousand dollars like a few million dollars you know because that how we going to keep the lights on and keep things cruising over in Thunder Thunderland

662
00:46:31,056 --> 00:46:33,776
But the reality is it's great for the builders.

663
00:46:34,296 --> 00:46:37,996
It's great for the people that are in your cohort,

664
00:46:38,376 --> 00:46:39,776
you know, that are going through your program

665
00:46:39,776 --> 00:46:41,496
when they finish, you know.

666
00:46:41,616 --> 00:46:44,616
And if we can do some cool media or something behind it,

667
00:46:44,916 --> 00:46:46,716
you know, Tim Draper used to have a TV show.

668
00:46:46,816 --> 00:46:47,856
It was called Meet the Drapers.

669
00:46:48,316 --> 00:46:49,236
I've seen every episode.

670
00:46:50,136 --> 00:46:56,836
And they would have maybe eight startups on there and they would film it and they're iterating and they're going and they're pitching and they're doing their thing.

671
00:46:57,036 --> 00:47:03,076
And at the end of the show, he would say, if you like any of these startups, you can invest online.

672
00:47:03,856 --> 00:47:06,956
And Republic was the name of the platform.

673
00:47:07,176 --> 00:47:09,536
But they had the live deals there during the show.

674
00:47:10,196 --> 00:47:16,936
So, you know, piloting something like that is really a fun idea, you know, that we're kind of working on.

675
00:47:16,936 --> 00:47:43,236
What was something that got you to this idea, Muz, as far as like, I mean, obviously, I think we've been needing something like this, you know, since 2020, or at least since I came into the space. I mean, this would have been amazing to have way back when for a lot of Bitcoin companies. I feel like there's just so much more resources for builders now than there's ever been. Never been a better time to build on Bitcoin. But yeah, go ahead, Muz.

676
00:47:43,236 --> 00:47:53,756
It came around in, I think, 2012 or 2013 with this as one of those, you see one of those government bills and it's like 8,000 pages.

677
00:47:54,036 --> 00:48:03,716
Well, they crammed this little thing in there in that Jobs Act about the crowdfunding because private companies were not allowed to raise and investors weren't allowed to raise.

678
00:48:03,796 --> 00:48:06,356
So they kind of created this new thing.

679
00:48:06,356 --> 00:48:19,736
OK, but the large incumbents in the crowdfunding world like Republic, like WeFunder, like StartEngine, Mr. Wonderful is one of StartEngine's spokespeople there.

680
00:48:20,496 --> 00:48:23,776
They kind of have all the dominance in market share.

681
00:48:24,216 --> 00:48:29,776
But the problem is, is when you go on StartEngine or one of these platforms, there's like a thousand things.

682
00:48:29,776 --> 00:48:34,476
And here's electric bicycles and here's a hot air balloon guy.

683
00:48:34,636 --> 00:48:37,336
And this lady's got 10 juice shops in the Midwest.

684
00:48:37,656 --> 00:48:40,156
And there's just so much stuff to sort through.

685
00:48:40,476 --> 00:48:47,196
So to have one that's specifically focused on Bitcoin and open source companies, that's kind of it.

686
00:48:47,696 --> 00:48:54,636
So I don't ever want somebody to go to Thunderfunder and see 40 deals or 30 deals.

687
00:48:54,776 --> 00:48:55,236
You know what I mean?

688
00:48:55,296 --> 00:48:58,096
There has to be a sweet spot with a time.

689
00:48:58,096 --> 00:49:19,656
You know, so it's kind of the focus, but we're also really limiting what we could be doing, because if AI is the flavor of the day and we're not doing any AI deals or nothing that doesn't have something to do with Bitcoin, etc., then we're kind of shooting ourselves in the foot a little bit, but we're sticking to the mission.

690
00:49:19,656 --> 00:49:28,336
And for people that aren't comfortable with joining the Lightning Venture Syndicate, because as of right now, you have to be an accredited investor.

691
00:49:29,016 --> 00:49:37,176
It's being put forth right now in Congress to amend the requirements for an accredited investor.

692
00:49:37,316 --> 00:49:38,296
I hope that happens.

693
00:49:38,836 --> 00:49:41,716
If that happens, it's going to kill the reg CF crowdfunding thing.

694
00:49:42,036 --> 00:49:44,196
And then that would be fine with me.

695
00:49:45,056 --> 00:49:45,356
Wait, wait, wait.

696
00:49:45,396 --> 00:49:46,076
Say that again, Buzz.

697
00:49:46,176 --> 00:49:48,416
So can you explain that a little slower?

698
00:49:48,416 --> 00:49:48,996
Say that again.

699
00:49:48,996 --> 00:50:07,836
Yeah, well, it's different in every country and it's different all over the world. But if you are domiciled in the U.S. and you want to join the Lightning Ventures Syndicate or invest in a fund or invest, you have to be an accredited investor. So you have to have a million dollars of net worth, excluding your primary residence.

700
00:50:07,836 --> 00:50:15,116
If you have a Series 7 or 65 or a few other FINRA licenses, that exempts you and makes you an accredited investor.

701
00:50:15,356 --> 00:50:16,436
That's actually another way.

702
00:50:16,496 --> 00:50:23,556
If you really didn't want to click the button and say you were accredited, you could just go and actually get your 65.

703
00:50:26,456 --> 00:50:28,116
I'm sure you can pass the test.

704
00:50:29,696 --> 00:50:36,736
That's something that we're actually thinking about doing for people who aren't comfortable, like us helping them get through the process, get the 65.

705
00:50:36,736 --> 00:50:38,896
and then you're automatically an accredited investor.

706
00:50:39,416 --> 00:50:41,656
Or if you made, I think it's $200,000,

707
00:50:42,176 --> 00:50:46,216
it might be $250,000, but I think it's $200,000 last year

708
00:50:46,216 --> 00:50:50,196
and you expect to make $200,000 this year,

709
00:50:50,196 --> 00:50:53,136
you can also click the button and say I'm accredited.

710
00:50:53,596 --> 00:50:56,816
But that's the other thing is it's a self-accreditation process.

711
00:50:57,456 --> 00:51:01,376
I like to joke everyone's accredited if you click the right button,

712
00:51:01,636 --> 00:51:03,216
and that's actually true.

713
00:51:03,216 --> 00:51:10,936
and you know right now in Congress they're trying to to change that they're trying to to make it

714
00:51:10,936 --> 00:51:18,376
easier and less you know remove some of the gatekeeping to allow people to invest more

715
00:51:18,376 --> 00:51:22,596
maybe does it come down they're talking about implementing a test they're talking about

716
00:51:22,596 --> 00:51:27,856
implementing sort of a universal test it'll be like 30 questions I don't know if you take it

717
00:51:27,856 --> 00:51:35,036
online or if you know in the UK if you're a Bitcoin exchange in the UK you have to administer

718
00:51:35,036 --> 00:51:40,336
a test to everyone who signs up for your platform so I'm running a Bitcoin exchange in the UK

719
00:51:40,336 --> 00:51:48,336
you want to buy some Bitcoin I have to give you a test that has been checked out by their

720
00:51:48,336 --> 00:51:54,196
UK regulators you have to pass it before you can come on maybe they're going to do something like

721
00:51:54,196 --> 00:51:59,896
that but either way i would love to see that happen i would love to see you pass a 30 question

722
00:51:59,896 --> 00:52:05,916
test and then all of a sudden everyone's accredited the whole thing's a scam um but for thunder funder

723
00:52:05,916 --> 00:52:11,536
and other reg cf portals you don't have to be accredited you know nearly anyone can sign up and

724
00:52:11,536 --> 00:52:19,256
invest so that's kind of the rigmarole that they make you go through interesting i didn't know that

725
00:52:19,256 --> 00:52:24,016
that's fascinating well i know a guy like you is accredited so no problems there

726
00:52:24,016 --> 00:52:29,936
That's fascinating. I didn't know that. So do you think that's good? So it's going to help you, though, right? It's going to help Thunderfunder then.

727
00:52:30,536 --> 00:52:38,296
If they if they make it easier to be an accredited investor, it actually doesn't help Thunderfunder at all.

728
00:52:38,856 --> 00:52:52,556
But we'll just we'll be it'll be better for Lightning Ventures and we'll better be better for the syndicate and other larger deals over there because more people will be able to invest over there.

729
00:52:52,556 --> 00:52:58,196
Oh, because you think people would just want to be LPs, I guess?

730
00:52:59,136 --> 00:53:08,876
Well, I mean, there's pros and cons to Thunderfunder and Lightning Ventures, or let's just say Reg CF versus Reg D.

731
00:53:09,396 --> 00:53:17,776
Reg D is your syndicate, your SPV, your special purpose vehicle that they spin up to invest in a private company.

732
00:53:18,696 --> 00:53:21,676
So with crowdfunding, everything has to be public.

733
00:53:22,376 --> 00:53:27,356
So, car at Pleb Lab, which I wish that you did, you call me up and you're like,

734
00:53:27,456 --> 00:53:29,456
Muzz, I want to do a deal on Thunder Funder.

735
00:53:29,556 --> 00:53:30,996
We're going to do a pleb round.

736
00:53:31,356 --> 00:53:35,096
You know, it doesn't have to be huge, but we're going to raise $125,000.

737
00:53:35,456 --> 00:53:35,776
Okay?

738
00:53:35,836 --> 00:53:37,956
And we're going to do it fast and it's going to be awesome.

739
00:53:38,176 --> 00:53:38,436
Okay?

740
00:53:38,456 --> 00:53:40,496
And I'm like, yeah, car, that's a great idea.

741
00:53:40,576 --> 00:53:41,196
Let's do it.

742
00:53:41,556 --> 00:53:41,856
Okay?

743
00:53:42,056 --> 00:53:49,016
You're going to have to basically make everything public for your company to some degree.

744
00:53:49,756 --> 00:53:55,056
We're going to do it for you and help you through the process of filing what's called a Form C, right?

745
00:53:55,136 --> 00:53:57,876
That could be 25 pages. It could be 35 pages.

746
00:53:58,036 --> 00:54:04,636
That's going to have some financial paperwork in there, something for what you grossed last year,

747
00:54:04,636 --> 00:54:13,136
something for revenue, some sort of numbers about this much on a third of one piece of paper in that 40-page stack

748
00:54:13,136 --> 00:54:16,836
will give some sort of financial overview about Pleb Lab.

749
00:54:16,836 --> 00:54:26,396
Now, you might be fine with that, but some companies aren't, and some companies don't want that stuff out there and some of those other questions.

750
00:54:26,936 --> 00:54:38,116
And for those companies, it's much better to do a deal in the syndicate because in the syndicate, everything is private, and there's a zero-tolerance policy for leaks.

751
00:54:38,956 --> 00:54:46,796
Thankfully, we haven't had any, and none of that stuff needs to be disclosed when you're dealing with the accredited investors.

752
00:54:46,836 --> 00:54:50,176
So for some companies, they don't want to deal with all that.

753
00:54:50,656 --> 00:54:57,556
So those are just deals that are going to land in the Reg D environment for the accredited investors only.

754
00:54:57,836 --> 00:55:04,816
So it's kind of cool to have both of those levers to pull for what's best for the company.

755
00:55:05,056 --> 00:55:08,336
But they're two different scenarios.

756
00:55:08,636 --> 00:55:10,256
It's not one size fits all.

757
00:55:10,896 --> 00:55:11,996
Yeah, that makes sense.

758
00:55:12,576 --> 00:55:13,636
It makes a ton of sense.

759
00:55:14,476 --> 00:55:14,956
Interesting.

760
00:55:15,376 --> 00:55:18,996
Well, I'm excited to see what you're going to be building for this next iteration of it.

761
00:55:19,476 --> 00:55:20,036
Me too.

762
00:55:20,536 --> 00:55:20,816
Yeah.

763
00:55:22,616 --> 00:55:25,056
Wait, so you guys had a recent hire there, right?

764
00:55:25,116 --> 00:55:26,596
Didn't you guys hire Josh?

765
00:55:27,696 --> 00:55:28,136
Yes.

766
00:55:28,256 --> 00:55:30,196
Josh is now the CEO of Thunder Thunder.

767
00:55:30,476 --> 00:55:31,256
How's that going?

768
00:55:31,856 --> 00:55:33,736
So far, it's great.

769
00:55:34,496 --> 00:55:34,636
Yeah.

770
00:55:34,636 --> 00:55:38,596
Does it take, is he doing all the heavy lifting now for you?

771
00:55:41,656 --> 00:55:42,136
Yeah.

772
00:55:42,576 --> 00:55:43,216
That's good.

773
00:55:43,216 --> 00:55:51,556
I mean, my goal right now, I'm focused on what we're going to be launching with this upcoming Lightning Ventures platform.

774
00:55:52,176 --> 00:55:52,296
Okay.

775
00:55:52,296 --> 00:55:54,276
That's 100% of my focus.

776
00:55:54,456 --> 00:55:56,936
Right now, we still manage everything on AngelList.

777
00:55:56,996 --> 00:56:00,356
We just closed a deal on AngelList.

778
00:56:00,436 --> 00:56:01,616
We're closing it right now.

779
00:56:02,056 --> 00:56:02,356
Congrats.

780
00:56:02,356 --> 00:56:05,176
And my goal is to get off of AngelList.

781
00:56:05,796 --> 00:56:12,676
AngelList is a great platform and all, and I'm the poster boy for them, and I've invested a million deals and everything that we've done there, and it's great and all.

782
00:56:12,676 --> 00:56:19,276
But I want to have our own really sick investing portal, right?

783
00:56:19,376 --> 00:56:20,056
A platform.

784
00:56:21,116 --> 00:56:26,076
You know, the E-Trade meets Fidelity for the Bitcoiner and all the fun stuff.

785
00:56:26,436 --> 00:56:28,836
So that is 100% my focus.

786
00:56:29,396 --> 00:56:32,276
And I'm putting all the effort in that.

787
00:56:32,596 --> 00:56:35,336
So Josh, yeah, he's CEO of Thunder Funder.

788
00:56:35,756 --> 00:56:39,556
He's the one who answers the call when FINRA has something to say

789
00:56:39,556 --> 00:56:43,796
and goes through that annual review that we're going through right now

790
00:56:43,796 --> 00:56:45,896
and everything else.

791
00:56:47,276 --> 00:56:50,376
I'm really just focused in Lightning Ventures land.

792
00:56:51,096 --> 00:56:51,696
That's great.

793
00:56:51,976 --> 00:56:53,456
Sounds like the place to be.

794
00:56:55,676 --> 00:56:58,036
Well, I'm excited to have you at the Yucatan.

795
00:56:58,316 --> 00:57:00,016
Startup Day is coming up here pretty soon.

796
00:57:00,896 --> 00:57:04,616
You're going to be there with some kind of drink in your hand, I'm sure.

797
00:57:05,376 --> 00:57:05,696
Chilling.

798
00:57:06,536 --> 00:57:07,556
Okay, when is that?

799
00:57:07,616 --> 00:57:08,676
Because I need to buy my ticket.

800
00:57:08,896 --> 00:57:09,536
Give it a plug.

801
00:57:09,556 --> 00:57:15,476
That's going to be October 10th, 9th, 10th, and 11th in the Yucatan.

802
00:57:16,396 --> 00:57:18,336
Francisco will be there.

803
00:57:18,436 --> 00:57:22,216
He's going to be launching some new cool stuff for Yopaki.

804
00:57:22,556 --> 00:57:25,076
It's going to be at the new White Paper House.

805
00:57:26,256 --> 00:57:27,616
There's going to be amazing builders.

806
00:57:27,916 --> 00:57:29,936
We'd love to have Josh there if he wants to come speak.

807
00:57:30,116 --> 00:57:35,096
I mean, I've only met him a couple of times, but that'd be great to get Thunder Thunder there.

808
00:57:35,336 --> 00:57:35,776
Okay.

809
00:57:35,776 --> 00:57:38,436
Are you an organizer of the Yucatan?

810
00:57:38,436 --> 00:57:47,976
I hope so. It's Plob Lab's name all over it. I mean, Yopaki's doing a lot of the heavy lifting, but yeah, we're organizing too.

811
00:57:48,616 --> 00:57:50,376
Okay, so it's a three-day event?

812
00:57:50,376 --> 00:57:57,136
yeah it's three-day event so the the on on thursday uh the white paper house is putting

813
00:57:57,136 --> 00:58:03,056
together some like community stuff that day and they're gonna they're gonna um roll out the the

814
00:58:03,056 --> 00:58:07,476
house and it's gonna be like a whole kind of show the community stuff and they're supposed to be

815
00:58:07,476 --> 00:58:13,456
people from all over mexico gathering uh i don't know what francisco has shared online yet but um

816
00:58:13,456 --> 00:58:20,936
There's going to be some big news coverage there from all sorts of Latin America publicity.

817
00:58:21,476 --> 00:58:21,916
I don't know.

818
00:58:21,976 --> 00:58:24,996
They're just like some big news team are going to be there.

819
00:58:24,996 --> 00:58:28,856
And we got Bitcoin news covering it too as well.

820
00:58:29,316 --> 00:58:30,176
Yeah, it's going to be fun.

821
00:58:30,296 --> 00:58:31,536
9, 10, and 11.

822
00:58:31,876 --> 00:58:32,276
Nice.

823
00:58:32,616 --> 00:58:33,456
9, 10, and 11.

824
00:58:33,696 --> 00:58:38,596
But yeah, I think it's going to be really cool.

825
00:58:38,736 --> 00:58:40,536
Yopaki's doing some really cool stuff.

826
00:58:40,536 --> 00:58:43,736
They're going to unleash some really cool stuff from what I'm hearing.

827
00:58:44,296 --> 00:58:45,236
I love Yopaki.

828
00:58:45,576 --> 00:58:47,376
I've been trying to invest for a while.

829
00:58:47,516 --> 00:58:48,556
I love them, man.

830
00:58:48,696 --> 00:58:49,676
Great guys.

831
00:58:50,456 --> 00:58:50,676
Yeah.

832
00:58:51,056 --> 00:58:54,876
And then there's going to be some other launches there too as well.

833
00:58:54,976 --> 00:58:56,356
I know Cascader is doing some stuff.

834
00:58:56,496 --> 00:58:58,676
Really amazing news if it comes to fruition.

835
00:58:59,876 --> 00:59:02,896
And then, yeah, it's going to be fun.

836
00:59:03,536 --> 00:59:06,816
But we're hoping to see you out there.

837
00:59:07,196 --> 00:59:08,396
Are you excited?

838
00:59:08,476 --> 00:59:09,016
I'm going to be there, man.

839
00:59:09,016 --> 00:59:11,656
I am going to be there

840
00:59:11,656 --> 00:59:13,996
yes I'm excited

841
00:59:13,996 --> 00:59:15,736
I'm excited to get more of a

842
00:59:15,736 --> 00:59:17,796
overview for what you're doing because that's

843
00:59:17,796 --> 00:59:18,496
three days

844
00:59:18,496 --> 00:59:21,676
the third day will be a beach day

845
00:59:21,676 --> 00:59:23,856
or a pyramid day we'll see

846
00:59:23,856 --> 00:59:25,756
but Muzz thank you so much

847
00:59:25,756 --> 00:59:27,716
for coming on the show was there anything else that

848
00:59:27,716 --> 00:59:29,256
you wanted to talk about that we didn't cover

849
00:59:29,256 --> 00:59:31,556
no man this is great I'm

850
00:59:31,556 --> 00:59:33,736
looking forward to checking out the four

851
00:59:33,736 --> 00:59:35,716
month program that you're putting together now

852
00:59:35,716 --> 00:59:37,676
for this trial run I'd love

853
00:59:37,676 --> 00:59:42,596
to be a fly on the wall. Maybe I'll pay you and I'll, and I'll, and I'll join. You can teach me

854
00:59:42,596 --> 00:59:50,416
because now I'm the operator over here. Um, and it's, it's definitely different doing both sides

855
00:59:50,416 --> 00:59:56,596
of it. Um, it's, it's, it's a wake up call, you know, it's really easy to, uh, to tell everyone

856
00:59:56,596 --> 01:00:02,216
else what to do with their run and their burn, their runway and their burn rate and their marketing

857
01:00:02,216 --> 01:00:06,336
and, you know, and then you're in that position yourself and you, you really, I've never, I haven't

858
01:00:06,336 --> 01:00:14,176
been there with a with a with a tech startup right as an operator so um i just had the most respect

859
01:00:14,176 --> 01:00:21,396
i have more respect now for for builders and founders after after jumping over and this side

860
01:00:21,396 --> 01:00:28,856
of it um you do i will say i will say like uh since you started thunder funder i guess it was

861
01:00:28,856 --> 01:00:33,216
probably like october of last year you seem more like a little bit more mild-mannered now

862
01:00:33,216 --> 01:00:41,556
where you're you're more um i don't know you're just more kumbayamas now i don't know how to

863
01:00:41,556 --> 01:00:46,596
explain it that's what it's all about man you got to be kumbaya you're like centered i guess it's

864
01:00:46,596 --> 01:00:51,876
like you're full you're full rick rubin now i guess is that the easiest way to put it it's like

865
01:00:51,876 --> 01:00:57,656
you see everything like you're like uh fully seeing everything from all angles which is good

866
01:00:57,656 --> 01:01:02,236
because like not a lot of people have that vc experience plus the now you have the builder

867
01:01:02,236 --> 01:01:03,316
experience now so

868
01:01:03,316 --> 01:01:05,156
it's a good spot to be in

869
01:01:05,156 --> 01:01:07,496
yeah

870
01:01:32,236 --> 01:01:52,696
Thank you.