You've got the evil empire here threatening to kill you, murder you, throw you in jail,
and stealing from you 24-7.
And you've got one here that's restoring your purchasing power to you all day long.
Which one would you pick?
This is what happened to me.
You know, my entire life got obliterated, and I had no choice.
I didn't have time to worry about, you know, the government or, you know, somebody coming after me,
because I had to worry what to eat in the next 30 minutes.
If you're not in self-custody, you are part of the problem.
Like if you want to see million dollar Bitcoin or whatever your number is, if you're not in self-custody, you can't verify that the Bitcoin is real.
Everybody's life situation is getting visibly worse somewhere.
If it's not the money, it's the online laws, it's the restriction on free speech, it's something.
While I believe in the bright orange future on the other side of this, it's not going to be perfect, but it's just going to be significantly better.
I think it has to get worse before people truly seek out what the solution might be.
Think of Bitcoiners as the new Leonardo da Vinci's of the world, right?
Like they're out there, they want to build, they want to contribute, they want to upgrade humanity to something, you know, really like incredible.
Hey everyone, Michael here with the Bitcoin Wave podcast.
Thank you for tuning in to episode 100.
I really appreciate you being here today on the show.
We have our very own Tony Yazbek. Tony is a founder of the Bitcoin Way, incredible guy.
He has been a huge influence on my Bitcoin journey. And we talk about the Bitcoin Way.
We talk about geopolitical tensions in the world, everything going on, the mess,
why Bitcoin in proper self-custody fixes this, the ways you can protect yourself and take
self-sovereignty over your life. You will love this one.
Hey, everyone. Like I said in the intro, I've got Tony here. Tony,
welcome to the 100th episode of the Bitcoin Way podcast.
Hey, Michael. Pleasure to be here, man. I can't believe we're at number 100 already.
It's only been five minutes since I took my first video call in this space. Unreal how quickly things move.
I know. It's been amazing. It's been a fun ride, and no one better to have on for episode 100 than you.
So we have a lot of ground we can cover here. I want to start, though. I think people are curious what's going on in Bitcoin.
I actually sent you a link earlier today that, you know, a lot of the viewership of, you know, Bitcoin and crypto related videos are down.
I think people have this sort of bearish sentiment at the moment because the price isn't doing what everyone wants it to do.
And the Omega candles haven't come.
At the same time, gold, silver, like these hard assets, historical hard assets are doing very well, reaching all time highs.
What is your perception of what's going on?
I know we don't talk a lot about Bitcoin's price, but that's what draws a lot of people in, obviously, the first time.
What do you think is happening currently with Bitcoin?
What's your general assessment?
Man, there's a lot happening in the world in general, you know, like Bitcoin, you know, being included, obviously.
But just overall, there's so much going on.
Like where to start this conversation?
What's become abundantly clear to, I guess, you know, a larger percentage of the population is that there is a problem.
You know, like a lot of folks still can't define that problem other than, you know, their lives are becoming more miserable and things are becoming a lot more expensive and, you know, they can't make ends meet and what have you.
But, you know, most of them still don't know what the root cause of this issue is.
And, you know, of course, you know, we know it's the broken money.
And what we're seeing in this space is people's, you know, instinctive reaction to anything that they think is going to be better than saving their money in a bank.
Those I'm talking about those that are actually paying attention somewhat to what's going on in the world.
So when you see like prices of gold and silver rip, it's because, you know, folks are buying them because they no longer believe in the dollar or the euro or any other fiat currency.
But that's the only thing they understand because, you know, they've grown up, you know, with that fact, their parents have, you know, have also probably, you know, accumulated some of it, their grandparents and what have you.
Bitcoin is still like a very distant conversation because most of these folks, at least those that have significant amount of wealth, you have to you have to understand that they are of a certain age group and most of them don't come from a tech world.
so when you speak about you know ai or bitcoin in general like this is a foreign language almost
to these folks and to try to convince them that this is actually money and that this is going to
become the future of money the future reserve currency because of you know all the uh all the
characteristics that you know we know very well it's a hard sell you know because you know not
everybody's open-minded to begin with um certain people of a certain age group just don't want to
listen. They don't want to learn. They know what they know. They're happy with it. As long as they
live comfortably until the end of their days, they're not really going to bother with a new
workout to prepare for the future. I personally think it's a bit selfish, especially if you've got
a dependence that you love and care about. And not taking the time to understand where the world
is headed, I think is doing them a major disservice. And so this is what I think is
happening, but it's like too many things are going on at the same time. And people are just
instinctively reacting to what they know until it stops working, which then they'll change gears
into something else. And eventually, like I've always said, all roads will lead to Bitcoin because
it's the only thing that'll make sense. And it's the only thing that people will be able to trust.
I think that's what's so interesting to me is that people are rotating into,
They understand that something is breaking.
They see the world, the chaos, and they default back to the historical safe haven assets like gold and silver, precious metals.
And it's fascinating that Bitcoin has been described as digital gold for so long in sort of the TradFi space.
Obviously, we think that's an analogy that falls short of explaining what Bitcoin is.
But I think it's a useful starting point for many people.
and you still have the same investors not digging in on what Bitcoin is and going straight back to
gold because of geopolitical turmoil or what have you. And I think it just reemphasizes this notion
that we are still so early, certainly in adoption. Absolutely. A number go up because the minute that
this clicks in some meaningful way, and it's not just Larry Fink talking about it, but what we've
been talking about for forever resonating with people in like the TradFi space on Wall Street in
a really meaningful way I think we're just it's going to go crazy it's it's I guess on one hand
I'm surprised and on the other hand I realize what a long journey this is for people to figure it out
at times and certainly Main Street you know they're busy they're working two jobs just trying
to make ends meet they're distracted by a million things my hope for 2026 is that more and more
people turn off sports radio on their way to work in the morning and flip on the Bitcoin
Way podcast or whatever resource it is to just begin learning.
And I don't know what it's going to take to get there, but certainly your option at this
point is sort of sink or swim if you're going to figure out Bitcoin or not.
I don't know if you have any comment on that.
Well, the thing is, you know, a lot of people are distracted and they've got a million things
to worry about, leaving them very little time to think and actually, you know, focus
on what could possibly be a viable improvement to their life.
Something so revolutionary like Bitcoin,
people are going to, like you need to attract them to it, right?
And everybody focuses on the lighthouse in their own way.
So whether that's through dabbling in shit coins,
whether that's through dabbling through ETFs,
whether that's through having your bank account frozen and seized,
it doesn't really matter.
At some point, you know, like something is going to tilt your head
in the direction of Bitcoin.
And there's two ways to come to that direction, either through pain or through open-mindedness and listening and doing the work and trying to understand the root cause of your misery and where things are headed.
And I think this is like a big ego challenge for a lot of folks.
Most people don't want to listen.
They believe the world is the way it is and that it'll never, ever change.
And the biggest factor in all of this is the money.
Like some people are genuinely convinced till the last breath that money has to be government issued.
Otherwise, it's of no value or like it's like it's complete nonsense, which is mind blowing,
considering that it's those same people that they believe in that are behind the cause of their lives being such,
such miserable ones because the money has no value.
It is not money.
It's a system created by a pack of thieves to steal from you.
And so many people to this day refuse to believe that,
even though they can't afford anything and they struggle 24-7.
And they still refuse to focus on what that is.
I don't know what it is, whether it's ignorance, whether it's fear,
but that is fundamentally, I think, the biggest hurdle to having more folks,
more retail specifically, focus on something like Bitcoin. I think the fear has a big part to do
with it. And I don't know what's going to break it. I think when the pain of your everyday life
becomes bigger than the fear, then maybe folks will focus. I mean, this is what happened to me.
My entire life got obliterated and I had no choice. I didn't have time to worry about the
government or, you know, somebody coming after me because I had to worry what to eat in the next 30
minutes. Right. And I think it's going to take perhaps something as extreme as this to sort of
reprogram the brains into, you know, more folks to start thinking again.
I completely agree with that because, and here's why I think when it comes to politics,
what politicians are incredibly good at is this insidious, perpetual act of throwing a bone
to attract members of the tribe to imagining that they're fighting for you, they're there for you.
And it's not even exclusively politicians, it's people in power sort of generally. And I look at
the strategic reserve that was just signed in an executive order, Trump freeing Ross, Elon,
allowing free speech on X, all of these things that I think people intuitively cheer on when
they're freedom fighters or they voted for a guy or what have you. But it's really nothing more than
tribalism because at the same time, Elon's enabling free speech on X, people are getting
locked up in the UK for social media posts. I mean, everything else is going wrong in the world.
We've got like, I don't know, eight wars going on or eight proxy wars going on. And we're cheering
on the fact that, you know, our guy did one thing good, you know, he took men out of women's sports.
And it's like, congratulations. And they're going to keep on throwing those bones until the, to your
point, until the pain has become so much that they can no longer ignore the fact that their life is
actually worse and that those bones that they've been thrown do not solve their most pressing
problems of providing for their family, feeding their kids, uh, enabling them, you know, a safe
place to live. And that's the sad thing is that while I believe in the bright orange future on
the other side of this, it's not going to be perfect, but it's just going to be significantly
better. I think it has to get worse before people truly seek out in good faith what the solution
might be. Yeah. And that's the thing, you know, like it's also accepting that you've been lied
to your entire life. Like it's extremely hard, especially if you, you know, if you have a strong
sense of patriotism and like in this specific case I'm referencing you know the American people
because I know how patriotic a lot of Americans are and and rightfully so I mean I grew up in an
American education so I can completely relate to this but like think of it this way when you try
to explain something like Bitcoin to someone and they just flat out refuse to listen like I equate
this to someone coming to tell me that my dad was a serial killer, right? Like even though the
person telling me this has hard evidence to prove it, but because it's my dad, I will not listen,
no matter how much proof he shows me, right? So I see this, there's some sort of like similarity
between trying to convince someone that the dollar or any other fiat currency is not money,
It's actually a tool to steal from you, extract your time and energy.
It's almost as, you know, like there's a block between wanting to accept this because that would mean admitting that, holy shit, like nothing about your life is real, right?
Like you've been a sucker since the day you were born and you just don't want to deal with that.
And like you'll figure something out other than listening to the facts that this person is presenting you, right?
So to me, like I sort of like make that analogy because it makes perfect sense.
Like otherwise, why wouldn't anyone be convinced of it?
Or at least take 10 minutes to look at the hard fact.
It's not like somebody's just telling you, go buy this and then that's it.
They're showing you the proof.
They're explaining it to you.
They're giving you the proof of work in their explanation.
And they're showing you the results of the last 17 years.
So it's not just like, you know, Mickey Mouse talk here.
There's hard evidence, but if you have a mind block and you just refuse to listen because you don't want to accept like your dad is potentially a serial killer or your mom is something because they're your parents, right?
Then nothing's going to happen until some external factor forces you to accept this.
And so fundamentally, I think this is where a lot of people struggle.
They just don't want to believe.
And some people will, most people won't until they're forced to.
But we're starting to see a change now.
And I think the change is happening organically.
Because if you want to simplify the situation as to, you know, why Bitcoin and not the dollar, for example.
Look at the incentives.
If the dollar was such a good product, why do you need such a big force to kill, murder, censor, steal, become dystopian, become tyrannical, you know, threaten you?
extract from you all day long if it was such a good product?
Right?
That's a good question.
Like, why would you have to be so extreme in your evilness
to force people to believe you
if the product in and of itself was a good one?
So if you just simplify it with that question,
maybe more people will start to think.
And then you have a product like Bitcoin,
rules without rulers,
There's no living soul behind it, right?
It's powered by math, bounded by energy,
protected by cryptography.
There's no manipulation, provably, in that system.
And it restores the value of your time and energy
back to you and in your full control.
So you've got the evil empire here
threatening to kill you, murder you,
throw you in jail, and stealing from you 24-7.
And you've got one here that's restoring
your purchasing power to you all day long.
which one would you pick right it's not a hard choice right tony i think i think the sad thing
is that people don't the average person has never had it framed to them that way and so to them it's
it's they they can't even put their finger on why they're getting poorer they just think this is
part of life or it's supply chain issues or it's russia and putin or it's like it's what they're
they're watching Fox news or CNN and there's always someone excusing this system of slave of
economic slavery that we have. And so their only frame of reference is it's someone's fault,
but it's obviously not the people whose fault it is because we never point back to them.
As far as they're concerned, you need a central bank. Government has to issue currency because
otherwise how could we have currency? Right. And so it's all of these, it's, you have people enter
with all of these preconceived notions
that it wouldn't even occur to them to question.
The only question they ask is,
what is the latest flavor of excuse?
Is it Putin?
Is it COVID supply chain issues?
Is it now Venezuela's fault?
Is it illegal immigrants?
And it's like, all of those things
are problematic in their own way,
but it's not the root cause.
It's afraid to label people the right way.
Like when you know someone is stealing from you, you call them a thief, right?
When you see someone commit a crime, you call it out.
But when it comes to the government, nobody says anything.
So what does that tell you?
Like, you know, you're a populace, you know, living in fear.
Because you see what's happening, but you're too chicken to do something about it
Or to, at the very least, call it out, right?
And so if I was living on a farm
and I saw the neighbor's dog come in
and kill my sheep every morning,
what would I do?
What would you do?
At some point, you'd shoot that dog, wouldn't you?
Yeah.
Okay.
So when you see someone breaking in and stealing from you
or murdering members of your family,
what do you do?
You just sit back and just let them do it?
Because that's exactly what's happening when it comes to your money.
People don't react because it's not the neighbor's dog and it's not a random thief.
The real criminal comes behind the title of government and banks, which automatically paralyzes most people, even though the result is the same.
yeah they steal from you they threaten you they do whatever they have to do in order to force you
to use the worst possible fraud imaginable to human beings
what i'm seeing is that more people understanding this and they are opting out peacefully you see
Because before 2009, like what alternative did the world have?
Not much, right?
Power always belonged to whoever was the strongest one.
And the strongest one was the one with the biggest guns, the most guns.
And so strength through violence.
That's how it worked.
The money is controlled by those who are holding the most guns.
So if you want to use their product, you have to follow their rules.
Nobody's saying break the rules, but you have to follow these rules.
And these rules are rigged.
They're not in your best interest, no matter which way you look at it.
They're rigged.
So as of 2009, there came this thing, landed from nowhere.
I also believe, you know, just to quote Simon Dixon, I also believe that Bitcoin could very well have been an intelligence product to begin with.
And part of some like crazy dystopian, you know, idea or objective to come up with a form of currency, which was like slavery on maximum steroids.
I very well believe that this could have been the initial beginnings of Bitcoin.
But somewhere along the line, along the way, something went wrong.
Someone in that team who was developing this product grew a conscience, said enough is enough, didn't like it, whatever.
And then released the code into the wild, open source.
The second this happened, history changed.
You fast forward to today, we have Bitcoin.
There no back doors anyone claiming this is complete rubbish It auditable visible the most transparent network ever known to mankind
So as of 2009, there is an option
not to play on that rigged chessboard anymore.
There is a new form of money.
And its main distinction is that it's not government-issued
or central bank-issued.
It's issued, again, by code, by math, by cryptography.
And so you don't have to use that trade chessboard.
You just have to understand how to use this new money and then move forward.
And so for the past 16 and 17 years, this is what's been happening.
And so there's still a mass number of people that don't understand this.
But because of Bitcoin's finite supply, unfortunately for them, there's not much time for them to figure it out.
right? Like that scarcity is limited to all of those paying attention today. Now, it's not to
say that 8 billion people won't benefit from Bitcoin at some point. They definitely will.
Just not in the same way as those buying, holding in self-custody will. That generational wealth
that you keep hearing about, that is limited to those actually holding UTXOs, which makes this
so incredibly powerful. And it's which is why the legacy system is absolutely petrified of Bitcoin.
They absolutely hate it.
but they can't attack it anymore
because they tried in the last 17 years
and they failed.
And so they know from a tech perspective
that's not going anywhere.
So they attack it
by trying to reshape the narrative.
This is how I see the attacks
and what's going on in the world.
You know, the Bitcoin ETFs,
the Bitcoin treasuries,
you know, all that legacy garbage
using Bitcoin as a wrapper.
These are the attacks.
Why?
Because it's what the ignorant masses
are used to. Okay, I have a good bank, I put my money in, they haven't screwed me yet. Now they're
offering this thing called Bitcoin, which is supposedly, you know, the ticket to riches.
Let me put my Bitcoin with them, not understanding that they still hold nothing and that at any given
point in time, that money will be seized and removed from them completely. That's something
most people still don't believe will happen. And I'm telling you, it's coming 100% because of the
way things are decaying globally because the fiat ponzi is at its end it's it's the expiry date is
here already it's not that it's coming it's here it's just that you have to see it decay across
eight billion people right and so these this is why the tyranny and the dystopia is like at unheard
levels because they know they don't have a large window of time before eight billion people
understand that this is the exit.
That's what's happening here.
This is why digital IDs,
central bank digital currencies,
all these crazy dystopian ideas
are being like fast-tracked.
Almost like there's a sprint
towards getting them out there
because they're so petrified
that at any given moment,
more people understand
that they don't need this
and they just walk away.
That's all that's required
is for people to stop using the dollar
or for enough people to stop using the dollar
and it collapses, it becomes irrelevant.
The dollar, the euro, the yen, whatever it is,
all that worthless paper,
when you have enough people that don't use it,
there's nothing you can do with it anymore.
It becomes like something you hear about
in a history class at some point in the future, right?
And so this is why I'm optimistic on the future
because I see those network effects accelerating.
And so if you ask me, am I worried about the future?
I'll tell you no.
So maybe if I could summarize your view on all of this,
is that we need to see max pain for more people
because the average person is not going to just wake up
and be curious on their own.
However, at the end of the tunnel is this light of,
you know, 8 billion people benefiting from the existence of Bitcoin.
The question then just becomes,
who are the people who are already driven by pain?
For example, folks like yourself, others in Lebanon,
others in many places around the world,
or those like myself who haven't been driven to Bitcoin by pain,
but rather just curiosity.
Those are the folks who are going to benefit disproportionately into the future.
Everyone else is going to benefit sort of by virtue of the incentives that Bitcoin creates.
What is what for you, Tony, is the most exciting development, either technical or trend, anything
going on in Bitcoin that you're seeing at the moment?
The network effects of Bitcoin are exploding.
There's a lot of tools and advancements, you know, in the ecosystem that are coming.
Self-custody has is already much simpler than it was, you know, 16 years ago.
and with the new tools that are being developed and put out,
this is going to get even more simple.
I mean, I see it at one point becoming something
as like a two-step process on a phone and it's done, right?
But you have to have people understand
and build enough confidence in themselves
to know that now they have the option
to become their own banks.
This is fundamentally what it comes to.
The tools are already here.
Simplified tools, you've got experts,
you know, like here at the Bitcoin,
We train people how to do this very meticulously on a daily basis.
But even that process is going to become much, much simpler in the not so distant future.
There's many intelligent brains working on Bitcoin.
I don't think any piece of technology has attracted so much intellect compared to what we see in the Bitcoin space.
And so I'm bullish on that future.
When the internet came about, they had two apps in the early days.
one email, one browser, and now you've got like, you know, an infinite amount. Take this and apply
it to Bitcoin. This is the stage that we're at now. We're still at that two app stage in the
Bitcoin ecosystem. There's not many options, but there's like hordes coming and they're better,
they're faster, they're simpler. You have many more countries now that are using Bitcoin as money.
Like, I mean, they've been using it for a while now. It's not a novelty anymore.
It's only, you know, like those bigger countries, those traditional first world countries that are
still seemingly so far away from the reality of other parts of the world. This is why it seems
like nobody's adopting Bitcoin. But that couldn't be further from the truth. Bitcoin as money is
exploding. And I suspect that it's going to continue exploding as people's situation
continues to deteriorate economically. So if I could elaborate on that concept,
I think I'm just thinking about this now, so I'm probably going to undersell the point I'm trying to make.
But imagine like you've got this economic darkness, a sphere of economic darkness.
It's the fiat world. And in the middle is this little tiny glowing light of Bitcoin.
And it's not just better money, but we're also beginning to see like the elements that make up a society grow.
Bitcoin arc. We've got, you know, home water heaters and heating systems being developed that mine Bitcoin.
We have, you know, people creating just cool gear, gadgets, apparel.
We've got circular economies being built around critical infrastructure like food supplies with local farmers, local ranchers who are accepting Bitcoin.
And it's not just people adopting Bitcoin as money, but actually building the necessary components of a culture that is growing.
So it's like both and.
Instead of banks, it's the opportunity for self-custody, right?
And so all of the elements of the fiat system that you have that we rely on, like architecture and heating and plumbing and all of these things,
it's like we're creating our own little Bitcoinized world of all these things, and it's growing and growing.
and new innovation is happening in that space.
Art, same thing.
And my hope is that over the next five or 10 years,
we just see that explode
where you can literally live
in a self-contained Bitcoin world if you want to.
And over time, over a long enough time horizon,
it just replaces and crowds out the darkness
of the fiat system.
So I don't know if I'm explaining that well,
but I think maybe I'm just elaborating perhaps
on sort of what you're describing here.
No, you are.
I mean, Bitcoiners really are a special breed of individuals.
You know, they're people that have like an extremely strong love for humanity and freedom and, you know, the respect for values and integrity, family and all that stuff.
They're what I would call like the builders.
You know, like if you want to, you know, use an analogy to, you know, to pass people, like think of Bitcoiners as the new Leonardo da Vinci's of the world.
Right.
Like they're out there.
They want to build.
They want to contribute. They want to upgrade humanity to something, you know, really like incredible.
And so at some point, these people, you know, are going to have the purchasing power to do this.
And especially as we head towards, you know, a world with AI, which is going to become even more deflationary, there's going to be like I say this all the time.
I am genuinely convinced we are headed into a split world.
One of them is going to be deflationary,
living that Elysium lifestyle.
And another one is going to be stuck in hell.
And of course, the world that's built on Elysium
is going to be founded by sound money,
incorruptible money,
like a system of abundance, of wealth,
of innovation, of love, of unity.
And the other one is going to be stuck
in one nightmare no one has seen before.
You know, one of UBIs, one of central bank digital currencies, digital IDs, and just like a dystopian nightmare like you've never read before.
And so I'm hopeful more people, you know, will start paying attention to this before they're either stuck or find themselves in a situation where their only exit is a violent one.
Because who's going to trade their freedom and abundance for that other life?
right but when enough people in that dark world see what others are doing in that nice world well
they're going to want it right so how do you go from this to this when there's no ticket to buy
yeah that's the world that worries me
yeah it's going to be it's going to be interesting my hope tony is that that would be what you
described seems highly plausible my hope is it's like an in-between period where eventually the
world sort of those two worlds merge because people learn okay if i want to have a prosperous
life i have to provide value i need to refine my skills i need to do something that people
demand in the marketplace. And then people will part ways with their Bitcoin and spend it on that
given service or skill set. The challenge right now is that, and I view myself, I think I have
obviously marketable skills. I am probably far underskilled compared to what I should be
in a hyper Bitcoinized world because I was raised in a fiat world and I was raised in
fiat education camps. And, um, and so I think people really need to begin recognizing if you
end up in that sort of trap of, you know, you're living in fiat while some of us are living the
high life in a Bitcoin world, what can you do now to begin preparing to bring value to, to society,
to the economy so that these, um, you know, the, the Bitcoiners who have benefited from being
earlier will, will part ways with their sats because you're doing something useful. Um,
Now, how long that takes, I mean, it could be a generation, you know, I mean, you don't flip a switch and suddenly have unique skills to bring to society when you've lived most of your life pushing papers and, you know, just following rules and, you know, checking the boxes on compliance requirements.
But my hope is that it's coming.
Tony, I want to get off this topic because I think something that a lot of people find interesting is the Bitcoin way.
So the company of which you're a founder, our company, and it's been, I'll just say for myself, I've been, I'm coming up on two years with the team. I think I was the first full-time person besides the three founders, and it's been a wild and awesome ride.
How have you found the Bitcoin way to evolve in the last couple of years, three years, since its inception as Bitcoin and the space around Bitcoin evolving?
It's been an incredible journey, man. I mean, I still am a little bit in disbelief, you know, that we came so far in such, you know, a short period of time.
The initial struggle with, you know, putting together the Bitcoin way is just knowing where to start. Right.
I mean, I came from 25 years plus of IT and cybersecurity, and we wanted to push the education around all of this to as many folks as possible, as quickly as possible.
But we needed to find a way to streamline it in a way that it made sense, right?
To break it down into bite-sized pieces so that people don't get overwhelmed, that it's easy to understand and what have you.
And so the initial struggle was into trying to formulate all of this.
And I think we did a terrific job and fine-tuned it, you know, and we continue to fine-tune it like to this day.
But this is an incredibly hard thing to do because I know most people don't come from the tech world.
And so some of the simplest things like to me or someone who's just been living, you know, in that space forever are a big deal.
And so there's an incredible amount of patience and way to translate that seeming complexity into something that's actually fun to do.
Because when people find it fun, the confidence to carry on and push on grows along with it.
And this is something that we've been very successful at doing.
And I'm very proud to say that the whole process has been fine-tuned incredibly since day one.
And we have a lot more coming.
I mean, our vision for the journey to self-sovereignty continues to grow.
I mean, we follow global events and news to see what's going on and how we can tailor our services to provide value to all the folks that contact us.
Because now it's no longer about just the money.
I mean, now you have the money.
You've got you, the individual.
There's your personal safety.
There's, you know, the attacks on your digital data, which are increasing.
So it's not all doom and gloom.
There are many options that people can take to protect themselves, right?
But they just need to be aware of what these options are.
And these options are not going anywhere.
In fact, I'm starting to see like an abundance of these options, specifically because the
situation globally is getting worse.
It's incentivizing those with the intellect to build, to actually build harder, build with mission, build with purpose, build that response to the legacy system that is on a relentless mission to destroy people's life in order for them to remain relevant.
And so a lot of people are fearful of that world because at this point, there's two ways.
You either do nothing and walk straight into a world of slavery, modern digital slavery.
There's no other way to describe it.
Or you do the work to go into a world where you're living on your own terms in a place that actually wants you,
that actually welcomes your value and your contribution
and you're surrounded by like-minded individuals.
And so that dystopian world becomes something you read about,
like you don't have to break your head over.
And so these are really the two options that I see,
at least in the short to midterm future.
Down the line, I don't know what happens,
but ultimately Bitcoin prevails
because I've said it a million times,
when you have neutral money,
the attacks on it are going to accelerate.
It's just the nature of the beast.
Evil wants to live on.
It's going to try to destroy the light.
It won't be able to do it.
Not anymore.
And so once they're depleted of energy and ability to attack it, this thing, you know,
takes over everything.
Now, how long that takes, I have no idea.
But those that are living in that future, as of this conversation, don't worry about
that because they're already living that life. Bitcoiners who understand that it's money,
it's not a speculation, don't complain about high prices as much anymore. Their lives are good.
They're surrounded by like-minded individuals and they're providing value to each other. That's why
you're seeing a boom in circular economies. Now, somebody living in a big city might not see it
because everybody around them is doing nothing.
But if you take yourself out of where you are now
and put yourself somewhere else on this planet
where this is growing,
then everything changes for you.
You're like, wow, why didn't anybody tell me?
Well, no, people were trying to tell you.
You just weren't receptive to that information.
And so you have to almost experience it to believe it.
And once you experience it, there's no going back.
Like there's really no going back.
In my case, Bitcoin saved my life.
Everybody knows this now.
And so if you were to tell me, go back to a fiat job,
like I'd rather die before spending two seconds in a fiat job.
Never going to do it.
Because I understand what it is.
I understand who's behind it.
And if I were to invest my time and energy in that world,
that says more about me, right?
And so if you've got any form of self-respect and dignity, you would never spend 10 seconds in that world knowing that you have an option.
Now, I understand it's not a given to just stop and shift over.
It's a process.
Nobody said it was easy.
It's possible.
And once you do the work, it gets easier.
But you have to start somewhere.
It's like you're completely out of shape.
Somebody tells you, if you don't go to the gym, you're going to die.
Some people would rather die because the thought of going to work out is like, ah, fuck, too much.
But you have some people, they're like, okay, I know it's going to be tough.
I know it's going to be shitty in the beginning because I'm so out of shape.
But once, twice, you keep at it and then it gets easier and easier.
And before you know it, then you're in shape.
You look good.
You feel good.
Life's great.
Economically, financially, Bitcoin does the same thing to your life.
It may be hard at first, or at least hard in your head.
But when you've got a shortcut, like experts, like at the Bitcoin Way, the team, to walk you through it, then most of these hurdles are eliminated for you.
You're going from point A to point B in the shortest amount of time with an assurance that you cannot make a mistake.
Because, of course, we've curated that process for you.
And so once you get there and you build that muscle memory, then you no longer think of Bitcoin as an investment, which is still something a lot of people are doing, speculating to sell it for more dollars or euros or other worthless paper.
That's not it. It's a savings that appreciates in value.
Once that clicks, your life gets better.
I couldn't agree with that more.
One of the interesting things for me has been my journey with the Bitcoin way.
So I think when I started I obviously I think you you probably would recognize this in the way that I talk
Online to some degree certainly offline
my beliefs and philosophy on on Bitcoin and life in many ways has changed It been interesting though to see The growth of the Bitcoin way because when I when I started I don think I had internalized the the desire
for people to take self custody. I knew as a client of the Bitcoin way prior to joining the
team that I wanted that for myself. And I think I always kind of had in the back of my mind is
how long can this really go on? You know, I think there are people. Yeah, some people are going to
take self-custody, but eventually, you know, is the market going to kind of dry up because people
are just going to opt into banks? And what's been cool for me to see is any, any lingering doubt is,
is, has been eradicated by the fact that our team is growing and we have more and more people who
want to take self-custody. And then when I step back, I imagine there are, you know, seven or
eight billion people in the world, even further down the road, some percentage of the, of that
group is going to want to take self-custody, be self-sovereign. And so it's not exclusively
Bitcoin self-custody. I think at some point that market does dry up and, you know, further out into
the future, but because not everyone can own UTXOs and transact on the base layer and there will
probably be other services that we eventually offer. But the cool thing about our business is
it's not just, yes, it's Bitcoin focused and oriented, but it's really self-sovereignty driven.
And so we have cybersecurity, privacy phones, plan Bs, and anyone who is trying to further their life and improve their life as it relates to their own personal freedom should come to the Bitcoin way for something.
What has it felt like for you watching the team grow?
And we're four times larger than when I started, I think.
No, it's incredibly exciting. And for me, the growth of the team means that there's enough people in the world that are finally starting to pay attention to what matters.
The value in our services is really upgrading people's lives, empowering them to regain full control over what they completely lost.
I mean, when we train folks and we provide them guidance on all the options available to them,
it's a massive upgrade to their current situation, be it financial, be it, you know, their digital privacy.
And, you know, in many cases now, their jurisdiction, people are moving.
It's when you first talk about, you know, plan B's, it's a big decision because, you know, you've got friends,
families, your whole life, you know, has been in one place.
And now all of a sudden, you know, the mere thought of going somewhere else where you know nobody is a very scary one.
But, you know, that process is also something that we've simplified.
We've broken it down.
We go out of our way to help folks meet other folks in the same, you know, on the same journey as they are.
So, you know, it completely removes these mind blocks.
and as the situation locally becomes worse,
depending where you are,
then it no longer becomes a plan B.
It almost like shifts to a plan A
and you no longer just want one.
Now you want like two, three, four, maybe five of them.
We have clients with nine passports.
Why?
Because why not?
It's so incredibly empowering
that they don't trust anywhere anymore.
So it's good to have options.
If you're only stuck with one residency or one passport, you're literally at the mercy of that location.
This day and age, you don't want that.
You definitely want to have more options because you don't know what happens tomorrow, right?
And you want to be in a position where you can be like a butterfly.
Something breaks here, you get up and you leave and you go somewhere else.
And as long as you control your money and you've got options in residencies or citizenships,
you're a free, sovereign individual roaming the planet on your own terms.
And there are always going to be places that want you.
But again, the doom and gloom scenarios is not global.
It seems global when you're only listening to the same news.
But if you step out of that manipulated mainstream garbage
and you listen to real stories of real people
whose lives have improved significantly,
then you realize that, you know, first of all, you understand that the world is a very large place
and there are many people that are available to lend a helping hand
and it will help you forget whatever doom and gloom scenarios you think you're stuck in.
Nobody's stuck.
And here at the Bitcoin Way, we go out of our way to really get you from point A to point B
in as seamless and quick of a fashion as humanly possible.
Like we do all the work in the back end
so that you don't have to.
You just have to show up, want to do it.
That's it.
We'll take care of the rest.
Yeah.
So if you'd like,
would you like to tease the audience
with anything that you anticipate in the coming year
for the Bitcoin way?
I feel like we're always working on something
in the background that nobody knows about.
And then we have a big launch.
But what, I guess, what are you looking forward to this year and anything that you'd like to, you know, sort of plant in the minds of anyone listening?
No, man. All I'll say is that I think 2026 is going to be an incredibly bullish year for Bitcoin and sovereignty in general.
And we're going to be riding that wave. We're always exploring new opportunities.
We're taking these opportunities and, you know, simplifying them so that more people can reach them.
and we'll be announcing a few good surprises
in the coming weeks and months.
So stay tuned.
The future is bullish.
I am not negative on the future by any stretch.
Again, Bitcoin is the game changer.
It is not going anywhere.
The fact that so few people understand this today
is not a negative.
It's a plus.
It's a major plus for those who are
because at some point the rest is going to FOMO in like seemingly overnight.
But, you know, what that looks like, I have no idea, man.
But if you want to start living in a future of abundance
and, you know, deflationary economies,
you can do this as of this second.
Yeah, I think that's well said.
So, okay, that's a note of optimism.
Let's talk a little bit about what's wrong with the world.
So I think part of what when I think about my journey the last two years working with you and what's radicalized me is, first of all, I mean, just having conversations with you, understanding more deeply what you know what happened in Lebanon for you.
I've had the opportunity to I think I would say some of the most impactful people the last couple of years for me have been clients of the Bitcoin way who I've had on the podcast.
I've sort of become friends with offline where they're sending me book recommendations and podcast recommendations and I'm digging in on in other areas.
and then i watch all of the news that we talk about on our so this this podcast channel has
a segment called bitcoin banter if anyone you know listening hasn't listened tuned into that
it's it's fun it's sort of news-based we have have some good laughs make fun of uh clown world
but i look at id laws in australia and never mind like you know folks like adam hudson who
were good friends with who are from australia talking about like the insane taxation that
happens there. Social media arrests in the UK. We've got surveillance tech being rolled out in
the US, courtesy of Palantir and many others. Where do you see the world headed? And never
mind Venezuela and Yemen and Palestine and Ukraine-Russia conflict and the prospects of
Taiwan and China maybe having a skirmish. What do you anticipate happening? Because you've been
calling out like some sort of a black swan event, internet outages or, you know, grid blackouts,
other things. Do you think that 2026 is going to be the year where it goes from, you know,
sort of this one-off kind of thing to like, we have this before and after event that everyone
points to and says, this is where the world sort of changed, you know, and like the fourth turning
became evident to everyone. That's a very interesting question, man. And I guess it's
really depends on where you are. I think where things are getting bad, they're going to get,
much, much, much, much worse. For example, like in countries like Australia, unfortunately,
where almost every other week you hear of a horror story. What we're witnessing these days
is the collapse of an empire. This is like history in the making. When you see an entire
monetary system that's been around for over 100 years finally die, well, all this insanity,
that you see around it, you know, is the result of it.
The systems in power that have been, you know,
benefiting from fake money, that worthless paper,
these are parasitical systems.
All they know is how to steal and extract.
And so now that there's a real competitor
that they can no longer stop,
that is a viable option for 8 billion people,
they are desperately trying to find ways
to lock you into their world
so that you cannot leave
because they know as soon as you exit
into a Bitcoin world,
you are never coming back.
And so again, that ties to what I said earlier.
Look at the incentives.
If their product was so good,
why would you need to be the devil himself
in order to force people to use it?
It's because it's a shitty product.
You're a bad person.
And when people understand the truth about you,
no rational human being will spend two seconds on you.
That's why.
And so you've got countries now that are, you know,
quicker to, like more, they're losing control quickly,
like quicker than other places.
And so that's where you start hearing these insane stories more frequently.
The bigger countries, you know,
I guess they have a little bit more time.
I don't think they're going to be escaping their fate.
Fiat money, as far as I'm concerned, is dead.
It's been dead since 2009.
It's just like the world hasn't understood or realized that yet.
But enough people have, and those who have, have walked away from that world.
And so I expect things to get worse where things are bad already.
And I expect things to get much better where things are moving in the right direction.
Like you have countries now that have better tax incentives, that are embracing Bitcoin,
that are welcoming people with, you know, with values and contributions that are not
harassing them with all sorts of stupidities.
These countries are going to boom in ways, you know, that are, you know, Renaissance-like.
And so that's why I'm saying when we're headed towards that split world, the visual between
dark and light is going to be like insane. And so those in the dark that are stuck there
are going to desperately want to leave. But there's no ticket at that point. Or it's going to be an
extremely expensive ticket because no one's going to trade something from here to go back here.
And so what that transition looks like, this is what I don't know. But if I'm going to trust my
gut instinct, it's definitely not good, which is why we're trying to push out as much education
and messaging for folks to let them know that this delusion of, oh, it's not going to happen here,
or it's unlikely to happen here, or it's too much work, that's going to be the biggest mistake,
in my opinion, that people make. So I think that fear is the final tool in the toolbox for tyrants.
and what we what we tend to see day to day.
And I know I tend to speak from a U.S.-centric perspective because that's that's where I am.
And it's sort of what I tend to see.
But what we've what we've seen in the U.S., and I suspect it's similar in other places for so long,
is the fear that Russia is, you know, the bad guy and they're going to do something or China is the bad guy and they're going to do something.
And so they try to invoke fear in our lives by, you know, painting something as if they don't intervene, if they don't do something, if they don't take more power, if they don't surveil, something bad is going to happen.
And I think most people latch on to that.
I think Bitcoiners are sort of awakened to that general theme that plays out.
What I what I don't fear this, but I what I suspect is likely is that when that stops working on enough of the population because people adopt Bitcoin, they recognize the lies for what they are.
Then the fear is going to be more acutely targeted toward those people who have opted out.
If you don't play ball in our system, if you don't turn in your Bitcoin, if you don't, you know, fill in the blank, we are coming after you.
We're no longer trying to scare you with this, the boogeyman of Russia, the boogeyman of China.
Like we are now we are the threat directly to you.
And the question for me is what percentage of Bitcoiners are ready to hold the line and, you know, and face the potential repercussions of being a Bitcoiner fighting this fight.
And, you know, I obviously hope it never turns violent.
I mean, I've, you know, what I've opted for to this point is a peaceful revolution and just simply opting out of the system.
But I could see as more and more governments wake up to the real threat of Bitcoin and the push towards sort of fiatizing Bitcoin and the push for using fear-mongering tactics that other countries are going to do something to us and our government becomes a threat.
I just wonder what it's going to look like for the average Bitcoiner.
Well, the governments have already woken up to the Bitcoin reality.
In my opinion, there's no doubt about this.
They know exactly what this is and they don't like it.
Absolutely don't like it because they can't stop it.
And what they want to prevent is from more people understanding that this exists because it renders them completely obsolete.
So historically speaking, your freedom has always been protected through war.
There was no other way to claim freedom other than having more good fight off bad and having the good win.
Bitcoin, as far as I can recall, is the first time in humankind history that you have a peaceful way to revolt.
You don't have to shoot anyone.
You just stop using the other product and start using something that no one can corrupt or dictate or use against you in any way, shape or form.
But it's so simple that it seems like mission impossible for so many people.
And so the government attacks on Bitcoin have already started, man.
Like this is the ETF, the treasuries, the stablecoin, the Genius Act.
Like who's the genius?
It's definitely not the population, right?
The genius is for those behind that silly policy
because what it's going to do is that it's going to push
that rubbish onto the world,
having normal people hold on to you as dead.
And then when enough people are in it,
then they flip the switch and then boom,
there goes your digital slave chain
and your life is essentially now literally owned
by someone who has no good intentions towards you.
Every breath you take needs to be permissioned at that point.
That is the world, that is the price of doing nothing
and not listening to folks who are trying to bring awareness
about this reality and the fact that there is an option now
that completely prevents it, right?
Bitcoin in full self-custody.
If you want to boycott tyranny, if you want to boycott governments, if you don't believe in central banks, if you want to put an end to them, then the only vote that matters is the one of your time, your energy and your money.
Your ballot is as worthless as a soil piece of toilet paper.
It doesn't matter who you vote for.
Some people think it might because, you know, they get one little piece of candy given to them and that's it.
they're all on the same side.
One throws you one candy,
the other one throws you another piece of candy,
but ultimately they hold the whole jar, right?
And they're just giving you these little nuggets
to keep you quiet and calm.
But I don't think this is going to last very long.
Yeah, I obviously couldn't agree more with that
because that's kind of what I've been trying to,
I sometimes get into debates online and offline with people who are cheering on a particular policy or and I'm like, hey, listen, I agree with you in principle that that this policy is, you know, striving for something good.
What I fear people fall into is complacency, that they they take that piece of candy and they're like, yeah, see, I knew my guy, you know, my my politician was going to come through on this.
And then they completely like the tribalism is reinforced. And then they're completely blind to the fact that they're getting absolutely screwed in a million other ways and that their tax dollars are going to pay for foreign wars that they don't care about, that they're being, you know, coerced their value, their productive values being coercively extracted every day in the form of monetary inflation.
and everything else is going wrong.
But at least they got their little piece of candy.
And that's what's so frustrating for me
is I feel like I've woken up to that.
Many Bitcoiners, I think, are still, in my view,
cheering on the same evil politicians
just because they threw them a bone and they freed Ross.
And I'm like, I'm glad Ross is free as well.
However, that does not negate the fact
that 80, 90% of everything else that's been done
over the last year has been utterly catastrophic
for the lives of most people.
You know, I mean, just imperialism,
protectionist tariff policies,
like everything else adds up to utter failure, I think.
And, you know, I'm hopeful that we,
more people begin to wake up to that.
The thing is, man, as long as people believe
that there is such a thing as decent government
and fair laws, they'd be hard pressed to change
until they're absolutely forced to,
where your money literally can't buy you anything,
and now you have to react somehow.
Because there are no laws.
There's never been any laws.
Bitcoin cast a spotlight on this.
It's all been one big club
that regular people are not part of.
And that big club, unfortunately,
owns most of the guns.
That's why they're in power.
Not because they're good,
It's because, you know, they threaten and kill and murder and, you know, cause all sorts of
insanities around the world. That's the only reason. And so when they're no longer able to
fund themselves, this comes to an end. And who can stop this? It's the people. You know, there's,
it's just, it's a numbers game. There's 8 billion folks versus that small club, which currently,
sadly controls the monetary system for 8 billion people. Up until again 2009, there is real money
now that came out that they can't touch. So the only thing they can do is scare the living
daylights out of you. So hopefully you don't touch that new money that they can't control because
once they lose that, they lose control over you. And that in the head of a psychopath who believes
they have the right to play God, is terrifying.
It's like, oh, no, no, no, no, this cannot happen.
Again they been living over a century extracting from you living for free at the expense of 8 billion people This came to an end in 2009 right
And so when your only skill is to put out evil in this world,
you have to eliminate that threat.
But it's not going to happen.
Open source code, peer-to-peer technology,
Again, it's these ideas whose time has come.
You cannot stop this.
You just need enough people to wake up to that fact.
And I think it's coming.
I definitely think it's coming because we're starting to see it.
One from our interactions with folks when we travel.
There's just more buzz and attention because everybody's life situation is getting visibly worse somewhere.
If it's not the money, it's the online laws, it's the restriction on free speech, it's something.
And everybody has that line that if it gets crossed, they're like, that's enough.
And then they push back, right?
So all this decay that's happening globally, I see it as a good thing because it's going to push people to react.
It's going to push developers to develop harder, to build tools, to take us to the point where you cannot stop this, whether you like it or not.
There's no stopping this.
So the more they attack privacy software, the better software comes out.
The more they attack free speech, the better the tech comes to bypassing their stupidities, right?
And so it's not just a one-way street here.
There's two sides on this fight.
people with brains and people who want to destroy those people with brains. It's a numbers game.
And I think there's more people on the side of good than on the side of bad, which is why
I remain very optimistic on the future. Okay, so I think you've made a compelling case for why
Bitcoin is the opt-out. What I want to discuss a little bit is, so we have a handful of, as we've
describe sort of self-sovereignty services of the Bitcoin way. And you're very intentional about
how we approach these things. Like when we talk about self-custody, it's 100% self-custody.
You hold the keys. You're not KYC, you know, on and on. Why? So I want to do this for sort of each
of the services, not as an ad for the Bitcoin way, but for maybe people to understand why it is that
we approach things the way we do. And we're so hardcore about this. So why, in your view, is 100%
self-custody the only option? Because it's the only way you own your money. There is no dependence
on any third parties. There's no permission to ask. There's no forms to fill. There is no
asshole to call who's going to bother you with 100 million questions as to why you want to use
your money. It's your money. It's your business. If you don't want to share it with anyone,
You don't have to.
But because it's a one-way street, Bitcoin forces you to assume personal responsibility.
There's no refund center.
Like if you screw up and make a mistake, the money's gone.
That's a valid reality.
And yeah, I understand why it petrifies folks.
However, the steps to learning how to do this is not hard.
You literally learn a few steps.
You repeat them a few times to build that muscle memory.
And then you'll be doing it as seamlessly as having a cup of coffee or driving your car.
regardless of the amount of money that's involved,
whether it's a dollar or a billion,
the steps don't change, right?
And so this is very exciting
because for the first time,
people can master these tools
to give them that power,
the control over their money.
And these tools are getting simpler over time.
They're getting more powerful,
more features, more like a user-friendly.
And the more that happens,
the stronger people's confidence gets, right?
Like somebody who's first starting in self-custody,
they're a bit nervous
because they've never seen it before.
But we go through the process once, twice,
three, four times,
and then they're like,
hey, this is not such a big deal
at the end of the day.
And these are all folks
that have never touched a computer
beyond its most basic functions.
And 50s, 60s, well into their 80s,
these are the folks that we deal with
on a daily basis.
Some of the most amazing human beings
I've ever encountered, all of them fully sovereign.
And so every single one of them,
when we ask for feedback, they're like,
wow, man, I didn't realize how incredibly uplifting
and empowering that is knowing that I don't have to worry
about a phone call anymore to use my money.
Like how insane is that, right?
And so you don't understand this
until you've moved to the other side
and you've left that dystopian nightmare behind.
You've upgraded from a shitty product
to a really good one.
And so that's why self-custody matters.
And it's so powerful
that the hardware that you use
in that process doesn't matter.
That's something else
that we make sure people understand.
If your computer blows up,
if your hardware wallet blows up,
if your node stops working,
if everything stops working,
your money is safe.
As long as you've got the moving parts, like your seed words and everything else that's involved in the construction of your wallet,
everything can be rebuilt in under 30 minutes, no matter where you are on this planet.
Even if we're using hardware that is different from what we initially started with.
That is incredibly powerful and why it's also unstoppable.
Right. So this is why self-custody is so important.
And this is why we're so excited when we teach people about this, because I see their reactions.
They're like, whoa, you know, that whoa is priceless because I know they get it now.
They understand what all this talk and pushing and marketing was about is for that whoa moment
when people finally click.
And once it clicks, there's no going back.
I've never met a Bitcoiner who stopped becoming a Bitcoiner.
so not first of all i want to start heading us toward home here with a few of these questions
but not to dilute anything you said that was fantastic but also just as a reminder to the
number go up maxis out there who are pissed off about the current price or whatever if you're not
in self-custody you are part of the problem like if you want to see million dollar bitcoin or
whatever your number is if you're not in self-custody you can't verify that the bitcoin is
real. If you're not in self custody, you don't have all of the sovereignty benefits that we
describe when we talk about Bitcoin. So that's maybe something of an aside, but just a reminder
to the people out there. So Tony, your background is in cybersecurity. So briefly, could you just
talk a little bit about where cyber hygiene, I guess you could say, comes into play on the path
towards self sovereignty and how effective really can a normal person be when it comes to, you know,
opting out of the surveillance of big tech, of big brother, and so forth?
Extremely effective.
Most people can learn, you know, the very basics of cybersecurity very easily.
It's not that people are stupid.
It's because, you know, it's not their thing.
It's not their background.
It's not their specialty.
And, you know, they've had other things to worry about, you know, during their careers
that these things, you know, were not a priority.
But now that they are in charge of their money, well, you know, there are certain things that
you must learn in order to protect yourself from scams.
And I suspect, you know, scams are going to be on the rise, especially these days, you
know, with the existence of AI, the tools to whip up very elaborate phishing scams are
easier than ever.
And so as the value of Bitcoin continues to appreciate, I expect these attacks and these
scams to increase along with it because it's easy money for those who want to take advantage of the
ignorant, right? And so we need more people to become less ignorant so that they're able to,
you know, at least like identify the most commonly seen ones. And of course, these are skills
that continuously evolve. It's not like I said it and forget it. You know, it's something that you
learn and then you fine tune and you learn something new. And we're always pushing out,
education and information around this to everyone that we work with so that they become more adept
at recognizing what's immediately noticeable as a phishing scam. So they don't inadvertently click
on something and put in a seed phrase somewhere where they're not supposed to.
And it's not just for Bitcoin. I mean, we push that education when it comes to protecting your
digital privacy, which is why we push the Google privacy phones now so that that device that you're
paying a thousand plus for no longer acts against you, right? Like it's no longer listening on you,
it's no longer spying on you, it's no longer tracking you. You didn't spend $1,500 to have an
enemy in your hand, right? But this is exactly the reality that we're living in now. And now again,
there are options to opt out. But because it comes from the world of tech, most people have
never heard of it, they don't even know these options exist. Our role here as educator is to
bring awareness to all of this and to show you how to use them so that you don't have to spend
months researching it, maybe getting it right. We will get it flawlessly accurate on the first go
and train you how to use it so that your energy now is just spent on getting comfortable with that
with that tech. And so you have this to protect your money, then you have this to protect your
digital privacy already as an individual living in a digital world, you are way more, you know,
equipped to navigate the insanity that is, you know, surrounding us on a weekly basis. And then,
of course, the last piece of the puzzle is your jurisdictional sovereignty. If you're living in a
country where your government is a complete nightmare to deal with, you're not stuck. Pack up,
leave there are many options that want you believe me surround yourself by like-minded individuals
your entire life whether you have kids or not upgrades almost as significantly as the value
of your bitcoin held in self-custody i think you covered all of that very nicely so i one of my
sort of passionate talking points these days, and yours as well, we get sick of the noise and
we're trying to be the signal in a very crowded world of talking heads. I always fear that new
Bitcoiners are going to come along and they think that being a Bitcoiner means you buy strategy
stock or you use Coinbase to buy your coins and they're the custodian now the treasury
Rico's trust, so it must be safe there. What would your, if you were to give some of your wisdom to
a new Bitcoin or someone who's like tuning in for the first time, maybe some, a lot of what we've
talked about up to this point has been over their heads. They're not there yet, but you're just
talking to someone new. What advice would you give them to anyone just starting down the rabbit hole
today? The basic thing that everyone should understand is that Bitcoin is money. It's nothing
else other than sound money that no living soul can corrupt anymore. And you don't need anybody's
permission to use it. Not a government, not a bank, no one. You just need to learn what it is, learn how
to use it and treat it as money. It's not a speculation. You're not buying a stock and a
share to sell it for more dollars or euros. Bitcoin is the money itself. And I hear a lot of the
arguments, but I can't buy anything with it. I'm like, it depends where you are currently. Like,
It's such a new concept, Bitcoin.
It's only been around for 17 years that, you know, you cannot expect it to be as, you know, as everywhere, as something's been around for over 100 years.
However, there are thousands more merchants accepting Bitcoin as money every single day.
I mean, in the U.S. alone, not that long ago, Square unlocked 4 million merchants to start accepting Bitcoin literally at a click of a button.
as we start seeing more of these of these events happen this is where you're going to start seeing
like that boom right but it depends also where you live there are places around the world where
there are circular economies you know like almost everywhere so those living on a bitcoin like on a
pure bitcoin standard they don't think about fiat i mean we live on a bitcoin standard and the amount
of fiat bills that we have to pay have gone down significantly since the last three and a half years
right? And the way we think about fiat is that if you have a bill to pay, just pay it
and then keep the rest in Bitcoin and just don't think about the fiat world anymore.
Move forward and try to find other people to complete your life with everything that you need
in Bitcoin. Whether it's a doctor, whether it's a mechanic, whether it's a whatever it is that
you need, there are Bitcoiners out there that will fill that gap for you. Whether it's local
or remote, they exist and hundreds and thousands of more of them are popping up every single day.
So we will get to the point where it's like down the street from you, everybody accepts Bitcoin.
But that's not going to happen overnight, at least not in the bigger cities. That's going to be a
slower process. But don't let that discourage you or keep you trapped into the bad habits
of thinking that you need to trust the custodian to protect your Bitcoin. You absolutely do not
need to trust anyone and should not trust anyone other than yourself when it comes to the world's
most scarcest asset, which is your Bitcoin in your 100% of custody, which is why we never recommend
folks speculate or take any unnecessary counterparty risk with their Bitcoin. I'm not a fan about
borrowing against your Bitcoin. I know people are like, yeah, but I need money. If you're going to
do it, first of all, make sure you read the fine print 17 times so you know exactly what you're
signing up for. And make sure you're really good at math. Because that world, even though the people
behind the project, maybe the best individuals, it's nothing against them personally. But they
are playing by rules that they do not control. And I always refer back to that recent example
where Bitcoin was at $126K
and then went down to about $102K in two hours.
Anybody leveraging Bitcoin,
borrowing against their Bitcoin
and didn't have backup collateral
because, you know, at such a big drop,
you have to provide to keep your loan,
they lost their Bitcoin.
How many people spoke about this publicly?
I didn't hear any stories.
Does that mean they didn't happen?
Absolutely, they happened.
And they will continue to happen.
Because again, that rigged chessboard,
these services are the carrots that the legacy system dangles to the masses
to take advantage of their ignorance, right?
Because people are accustomed to somebody else doing the heavy lifting for them.
And this is how they separate ignorant people from their Bitcoin.
You will see plenty more of these services.
Low fees, no taxes, incentives, blah, blah, blah.
Just put your Bitcoin with us.
They don't care about what they offer you.
They care about taking away your ability to self-custody.
Because that's what gives you power.
And the more people have that power, the less they do.
And they don't believe regular plebs are worthy of that power.
because you were put on this planet to be a slave to these delusional people
that believe they own the world, right?
And so if you don't want to be that sucker at the table,
then you need to learn the skills to protect yourself.
And once you do, it's game over, man.
The power comes back with you.
You take that knowledge, you pass it along to your kids.
Hopefully they pass it along to their kids.
And that ripple effect carries on forever.
And given enough time, everybody will be doing this because it's the only logical step for anyone with self-worth to apply.
Well said.
All righty, Tony, this brings us to the last question, the one I ask everyone.
What is an unpopular opinion that you have?
And you get bonus points if you piss off some Bitcoiners with it.
Anyone still trusting a third party with their money will lose it at some point.
yeah there's a lot that's an unpopular one i mean i guess for a lot of people listening to this show
hopefully we've we've resonated but i would say the average bitcoiner would say conspiracy theorist
you're crazy do you want to elaborate on on why you feel that way well because again it's all part
of that chessboard that is controlled by people with an infinite amount of resources that can
manipulate it at any given point in time and you have zero control over this. And so why put
yourself at negative odds when you don't have to? It's the path that's harder to take, I understand.
I mean, when I first got into Bitcoin, my odds of success were like a 0.0001. But I knew this was
the right path to take because if I didn't take it, I'd be right back where I was in the position
to get looked up again in the same way they did in 2019.
And that was not an option that I was willing to take anymore.
So it takes doing the work, the hard work initially,
but believe me, it gets very easy as time progresses.
The more confidence you build in yourself,
the more skills you learn,
the more dangerous you become in the eyes who hate you.
I think that is well said and a great place to wrap up.
Tony, I can't believe we have just completed episode 100.
Thank you so much for making time.
Do you want to tell people where they can find you, learn more about the Bitcoin Way, anything else?
Absolutely, guys.
I'm always active on social media.
On X, it's V4BTC.
And of course, the Bitcoin Way underscore handle is the company's account.
Reach out whenever you want.
You know, like my DMs are always open at the Bitcoin Way.
We offer a complimentary 30-minute call for anyone.
There's no obligation.
just call, say hi, ask questions, you know, just whatever it is that you're interested in, let us
know. And if it's in our, you know, power to assist, you know, you can, you can be assured that we will
go out of our way to do so. And hopefully we meet, you know, a lot more folks. I mean, part of, like,
one of the most rewarding things in this journey for me is just the opportunity to meet folks in
person. You know, like everybody that signs up for Plan B, for example, we meet you in person
at that location.
So it's been incredibly rewarding
from a humane perspective, right?
Like to build these new friendships
with people that are aligned in so many ways
that if it was not for Bitcoin,
our paths would have never crossed.
And I think this is something
that a lot of people will find absolutely priceless
and as like a serious upgrade
to the qualities of their lives.
Yeah, I couldn't agree anymore with that.
But it's been like working, getting to work with this team for me personally has been such a blessing.
And then you go to conferences and you meet a bunch of normal people like yourself who are just on the same journey, learning the same but different things.
And it's it's so much fun. So, Tony, thank you for allowing me to be a part of this journey with you.
Thank you for taking time to chat. I think this is incredibly going to be an incredibly valuable resource for people.
So look forward to chatting with you again soon. But you take care, brother.
Absolutely.
Likewise, Michael.
Talk soon, man.
Cheers.
And that's a wrap.
Again, hope you enjoyed my conversation with Tony.
I know I love talking with him every time, and I'm very fortunate to get to do that all
throughout the week.
But hope this was a good one for you to listen to.
Of course, go follow him at B4BTC on Twitter, and you can do the same thing for The Bitcoin
Way while you're there at TheBitcoinWay underscore.
Also, if you need to take proper 100% self-custody of your Bitcoin, if you want to protect your
devices, set up a privacy phone, or you want a plan B, go over to the bitcoinway.com slash podcast.
You can schedule a free 30 minute consult with a member of our team. We'll walk you through all
things that we do, how we help, why we do it the way we do it. Again, that is thebitcoinway.com
slash podcast. Until next time, stay safe, stay sovereign, and remember the yield on Bitcoin is
freedom.