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Best case scenario is we have a Super Bowl ad. It's fully scaled up. We've got this beautiful

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learn directory that's curated with a one-stop shop that we can send friends and family to when

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they're curious and ready to start learning about Bitcoin. What's your soft spot for middle-class

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families and how do you think what you're doing at Bitcoin is better specifically reaches and

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engages those people? 50, 100 years from now, people are going to look back and be like, wow,

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so many people were working and they didn't even know the denominator of their money.

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It all makes no sense unless the only thing that you think is viable is the fiat system.

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Throughout the middle class is that you've missed the boat.

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Bitcoin today is $73,000 per coin.

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So it almost feels like you're too late, but that's not the truth.

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Hey everyone, Michael here with the Bitcoin Way podcast.

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Thank you for tuning in.

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Today on the show, I have Daniel Hershberger of Bitcoin is Better. They are doing amazing work

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with the goal of getting a Bitcoin-only high signal ad in the Super Bowl. We talk about how

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it works, where your sats go. You can vote on different ads. So many cool things that they

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are engaging in the space. Enjoy my chat with Daniel. Hey, everyone. Like I said in the intro,

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I have Daniel here with me. Daniel, welcome to the Bitcoin Way podcast.

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Michael, great to finally meet you face to face and excited to be here.

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Yeah, I'm glad Adam Sameka connected us. Very excited for this conversation. I think what you're working on here, and I know, by the way, this is like a volunteer role for you, but it's a very important thing that you're working on sort of in the Bitcoin space. And it doesn't sound like a back burner item for you. I imagine this is taking a lot of time. But why don't you just give some context? Explain to people what is Bitcoin is better and why should they be excited about what you're doing?

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Yeah.

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So Bitcoin is better.

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It's a very broad statement because in my opinion, Bitcoin is better means something

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different to everyone.

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So the purpose of the nonprofit is really to help middle class families see themselves

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within the Bitcoin story.

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So then once you see yourself inside the Bitcoin story of why it is better to you, then you

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adopt it and build that firm foundation economically on Bitcoin, which we are still so early to

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this adoption phase, but the common myth throughout the middle class is that you've missed the boat.

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Bitcoin today is $73,000 per coin. So it almost feels like you're too late, but that's not the

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truth. So yeah, with the nonprofit, the idea came about in about 2022. The Super Bowl ads came on

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and we had Matt Damon pitching Crypto.com and Tom Brady was partnering up with Same Bankman

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Freed. And I just watched those commercials and I was like, man, there's so many people that are

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just going to get rubbed by these celebrities pushing crypto and of course, putting a little

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bit of Bitcoin in there, you know, just a little sprinkle of truth. But I was like, man, there just

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needs to be like a unified message of why Bitcoin exists, why it matters, helping people ask better

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questions about money so that they can understand why Bitcoin exists and get in early for themselves

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and their families. So the nonprofit started in 2023. I wrote a book, Bitcoin is Better,

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Natural Money That Works for the Working Class, to basically polish up my thoughts for the

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nonprofit, like the five main areas that Bitcoin is better has changed the way that I view the

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world and how it's made money, economics, politics, property, and health better and is making it

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better. So I broke it down into five chapters. But like I said, it's such a broad statement.

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Bitcoin is better really means something different to each person. So the book was launched. The

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nonprofit was filed. It took us about nine months to actually get approved for our 501c3 status.

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That was during the Biden administration. So I'm sure we hit some keywords somewhere, you know,

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so the administrative headache was a little bit more than anticipated. But yeah, we're rocking

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and rolling now. Last month, we launched our TV ads and learn directory. So that's up and running.

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We've got seven ads so far that we're crowdfunding. So I encourage people to check out

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bitcoinisbetter.org. If one of the ads connects with you, feel free to throw some sats at it and

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help us to get it out. But we have other plans as well to increase distribution. We've really just

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kickstarted this thing as an all-volunteer board, but we're opening up what's called our

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guild to get more of the Bitcoin community involved and get people to help us build this

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vision of just having a unified signal message of why Bitcoin exists and helping middle-class

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families adopt Bitcoin. That's awesome. So I feel like it was, was it two years ago that we first

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saw the Coinbase ad in the Super Bowl or was that further back? I remember, I know I was in Bitcoin

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at the time. And I remember thinking at the time I was kind of earlier on my journey and I remember

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thinking this is exciting. Like it's going mainstream. I was probably like still buying

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on Coinbase at the time or something. And then I guess there were more last year and I, it was

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like just hard to watch. It's so sad. The further down the Bitcoin rabbit hole you go and you see,

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you know, FTX and Coinbase sort of taking airtime for crypto.

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So what's the what's the hope here is the hope to have a Super Bowl ad?

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Is the hope to just broadly distribute this across mainstream outlets,

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you know, network television?

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Like, where do you see these ads playing out?

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Yes.

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And I mean, a hat tip to Coinbase, they put out some really solid Bitcoin ads.

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Yeah, actually, they have been more recent days.

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Yeah, more recent days that are amazing.

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But it's like, where does that traffic go? And you enter Coinbase. It's a casino. It's turned into a casino instead of focusing on Bitcoin. So, yeah, the idea, the big stretch goal for the organization is to put together a Super Bowl ad.

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and we've actually just recently partnered up with the Bitcoin Marketing Association

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and they have a similar vision as us.

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They're a 501c6 organization, I believe, which is like a trade organization nonprofit.

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But their original idea was to send traffic to bitcoinisbetter.com

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and make it like a got milk commercial where it's like, you know,

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got Bitcoin or beef it's what's for dinner.

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So just brand neutral and send traffic to a website.

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And then we met up and like we were a little bit further along as far as ready to go to production.

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But now we're going to be kind of like teaming up.

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So we've got Bitcoin is better dot com and Bitcoin is better dot org.

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But the idea is like you can't really run a got milk commercial for Bitcoin, because as soon as somebody goes to YouTube and types in Bitcoin, they're going to get captured by all these algorithms that are going to take them to to crypto and other types of scams.

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So the idea is to send traffic to a board curated brand neutral learn directory with the best Bitcoin resources for people to begin their learning journey.

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So so, yeah, that's the idea of like how the ads platform and the learn directory are, you know, working together and complementary.

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That's fantastic. Yeah. And I think the Bitcoin way is is in there as well for for self custody.

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So I hope everyone checks it out. So I think it's something people are going to want to know, because whenever you have.

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I think people are rightfully skeptical of, I mean, certainly anyone collecting money and maybe increasingly of nonprofits.

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How does like the flow of sats work?

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So if I go on your site and I see an ad that I say, this is one I really like.

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I want to support this.

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I'd love to see this on, you know, a major news outlet or a major media outlet.

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And I and I and I contribute.

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Right. And actually, by the way, I did just a couple of hours ago.

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I contributed to one of the ads.

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what like does bitcoin is better you know retain a small portion of that like a fee basically

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does the creator uh earn anything does what happens if it doesn't go you know and it's not

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voted on uh enough to actually get airtime how does all of that work yeah that's a great question

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um so the the donation breakdown is basically 80 goes to distribution of the ad uh 10 goes to the

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creator of the ad and then 10% is retained by the nonprofit to keep the lights on for administrative

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costs. So we have a board of 12 board members, Bitcoin only board members. And yeah, so there's

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transparency that comes with that. We have Joe Wood from Satoshi Pacioli. He's our treasurer.

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So he handles the finances of the organization. And each week or each month we meet as an

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organization and make sure that funds are responsibly handled. But yeah,

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that's a great question because a nonprofit has almost become like slang word

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for, for scam, you know, the last couple of years in Minnesota, right?

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Yeah, yeah, that's right. Well, I think it is, it is an important question.

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What I will say is that knowing some of the folks on your team,

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I have complete confidence because I have personal relationships.

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Obviously not everyone does. I, I, I couldn't rattle off the,

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like what you would typically see in a nonprofit.

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My impression though, is that 80% actually going to the cause,

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to the purpose is incredibly good.

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And people have to realize that there is overhead

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with running something like this.

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And it's not to pay volunteers, obviously.

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It's to pay to keep the lights on.

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It's to make sure the website is functioning, outreach.

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I imagine there's marketing that you want to do,

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those sorts of things, because you can only receive ads

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and have an effective game plan if people know that you exist

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and are incentivized in some way to do something

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and to spend time and invest energy

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and put in proof of work into creating something

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that they think could potentially be shown on live television.

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Where have been, you said,

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I think there are seven ads right now on the site.

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Where have those come from?

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Are those people who you just,

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because this launched relatively recently,

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are those people who you knew and you sort of primed for,

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hey, we want to get some content up there. So when we go live, we have people have options.

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Or are those people who heard about you after you launched and said, this is awesome,

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I want to do this? What's been the source of content so far?

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Yeah. So, so far we have bootstrapped as a board. So six of the ads I created,

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one of the ads Adam created, Adam Semeca. The idea behind that, we don't have,

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neither of us have a film background, but we both are very passionate about Bitcoins.

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We're like, okay, these new AI tools are coming out. This is like five or six months ago.

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Let's put together just some 30 second and 60 second ads and see what we can come up with

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with these AI tools. So we did that. We went through a few iterations of the ads based on

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board feedback. And the idea was just to get launched. This isn't like the final product

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that's ready for the Super Bowl, but this is the idea, the vision that we have.

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So we're hoping that that inspires people in the Bitcoin community who are more creative than us,

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have a background in film, to put together some really, really moving stories that plant those

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seeds in people's minds that get them curious about Bitcoin, which leads to a desire for education.

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But yeah, the idea is crowdfunding and crowdsourcing of these videos. But also,

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we're going to be opening up a new venue as well for Bitcoin whales who have a vision in their mind

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that they want to share with middle-class families about why Bitcoin exists. And then partnering that

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Bitcoin whale with a production team to actually put that into a 30-second or a 60-second ad.

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And the whale can push it out. We could probably supplement it with some crowdfunding as well.

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so that's going to be another venue and just yeah it's it there's a lot of moving parts to it but

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we're kind of learning as we go and figuring out you know what works best and to answer your

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question before moving on about the funds because I think it's really important so we we pick a

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monthly winner to actually push out all the videos that don't win eventually we're going to drop them

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off of the platform at some cadence you know two to three months and then those funds are going to

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go into like optimized alternative media campaigns where the Bitcoin Marketing Association is going

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to help us, you know, with Instagram ads, YouTube ads, you know, banner ads. But we're going to take

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those funds and, you know, put them into other forms of media, which may show like a higher ROI

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because ultimately our KPI that we're really striving for is number of learners per month.

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Okay. Yeah, that's what we're optimizing for.

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That's fantastic. And I really can't overstate at least my opinion that all of those things that you're talking about are really important. I know there are a lot of people when they donate or contribute in any capacity to a nonprofit, they want to know that their money went to this place around the world that they're trying to fund.

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And that is obviously the most important at the end of the day.

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It doesn't matter if it's your sats that go there.

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What matters is that your sats help drive the machine that enable that activity to take place.

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And sometimes that is marketing.

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We run a business at the Bitcoin Way and we have an unbelievable service.

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Doesn't matter if no one knows about us.

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And that's just part of what we have to do.

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It's why we do the podcast.

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It's why we do marketing.

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It's why we do all sorts of things.

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So I hope that your numbers are, I think, very compelling, but I hope that doesn't discourage anyone.

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The fact that some of this isn't going directly to getting a Super Bowl ad produced.

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So I like this concept of Bitcoin whales funding production teams because I am unfortunately I'm not a Bitcoin whale.

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I haven't been around long enough, wasn't stacking hard enough in my early days.

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It's given me freedom, but not immense riches.

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However, I think that there are people who are still on this mission that you're on, that I'm on, who have stacked a lot of stats over the last decade, decade and a half.

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Are you helping to orchestrate the production teams?

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Like are there people you know who you or is that the Bitcoin Marketing Association where they got incredibly talented folks who can work with AI who have the cameras the equipment whatever they need in order to produce these ads And it more just a matter of finding the interested investors matching them up with

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people who you know are going to do good work and making it come together.

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Yeah, I would say more of the latter. So thankfully, we had Terrence Michael join our board

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last week. And he has a background of film. So for those of your listeners who may not be familiar

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with him he wrote the book proof of money but if you look at his wikipedia he's got you know quite

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the track record in in hollywood making and producing film i didn't know that yeah yeah

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it's cool cool dude yeah background um but yeah so terrence is great he's bringing a lot of

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direction as far as like how to how to build those teams out in the right way i've had some

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i had an interview this week with a guy who reached out about the guild who has a video

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editing background and he's going to put together an ad and you know get board feedback on it so it's

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really just like as volunteers reach out to create ads like the cream will rise to the crop and we'll

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kind of like develop our own uh team of sorts and um and yeah yeah put that together like i said with

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with terrence and there's another uh another guy named jordan he he has a film background as well

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he's starred in a few films um and i just met him over the last couple weeks with the launch as well

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And he's interested in getting involved and helping us up our video creation skills.

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So, yeah, I'm just confident that when the time is right, when the Lord's timing is right,

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you know, the team's going to be there.

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But we're just kind of putting the vision out as a nonprofit and trusting that, you know,

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the right people will come at the right time.

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Yeah, I think that time has come in.

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It's just a matter of getting enough people aware of what's going on and why they should do it.

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I would also add that people spend,

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And Bitcoin spend a lot of time trying to orange pill their friends and family to no

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avail.

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You're just, it's too close to home.

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They don't want, people don't want to imagine that you were right about something and that

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they didn't get it and that they kicked the can for so long.

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The moment I think like a third party can intervene with an interesting, catchy ad,

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a resource, a website where they can go learn sort of on their own time at their own pace.

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It just opens the door for better conversations.

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Because I know like for my family, I think they probably think I'm the only Bitcoiner

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in the world and that I'm the only one who's screeching about all this stuff.

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When in reality, we're hopefully very close to a Super Bowl ad just about Bitcoin, not

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about a crypto casino launching and the whole world being awakened to the notion that this

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is really happening and that there is something to be paying attention to.

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So I love that.

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You mentioned on your website in many places that this is largely about helping middle class families.

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The ads to me make a lot of sense for that.

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Obviously, if people are watching TV at night, that's going to be a lot of middle class families.

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What's your soft spot for middle class families?

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And how do you think what you're doing at Bitcoin is better specifically reaches and engages those people?

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Yeah, so I grew up in a working class family.

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my dad worked in a factory. My mom is a nurse. So yeah, I would say growing up that way created

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a soft spot. And then also I'm a Christian, so I read the Bible and especially Proverbs is very

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heavy on the consequences of oppressing the poor, stealing from the poor. And with inflation being

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intentional the way it is, I view that as one of the greatest justice issues of our time.

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And Bitcoin is a tool for economic justice. Because I think that if Joe the plumber, if his

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boss gave him a 7% pay cut every year, Joe the plumber would be pretty upset. Or if Joe the

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plumber's congressman voted for a seven percent tax increase every year joe the plumber would be

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upset but somehow you know the the fed can print seven percent more dollars each year and dilute

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joe the plumber's paycheck and he's not even aware of it so i just think the the subtlety the

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stealthness of intentional inflation is um is something worth uh i don't know asking questions

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about. And then for me, I've ultimately found Bitcoin to be the better tool. And that's why I

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support Bitcoin with my economic energy. And yeah, I think that it has the opportunity to change the

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world more, like as much as AI or if not more than AI, because just think about like all the economic

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consequences of money gaining value over time. So if your money bought more each year, how is that

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going to change how you invest your time, how you think about your work. So many things change when

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money grows in value over time. So it's just a big idea that most people haven't wrestled with.

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And same with you, Michael. It's like, yeah, family and friends sometimes are the toughest.

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Yeah. I like the way you frame that though, is if they voted every year on a 7% tax increase,

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if your employer paid you 7% less every year and the answer was, well, you just need to invest

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better. That's kind of the obvious solution is we need the S&P 500 to go up more than that 7%.

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People would be screeching about it and they would never stand for it. The hurdle to overcome there,

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of course, is that they don't advertise 7% M2 inflation. And most people wouldn't know what

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that meant anyway. They advertise, well, we're about at target, we're close to 2%.

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And most people don't understand that 2% versus 3% is a 50% increase. And so 3% sounds close in

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enough, you know, it's only one percentage off when really it's a 50% difference. So it's, it's

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a huge educational gap. I'm always curious, Daniel, you said that friends and family are one of the

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tougher, one of the sticking points for, for Bitcoiners. Have you had any success with your

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friends and family? Like when you talk to loved ones, are they on board Bitcoin? Are they not?

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What's, what's the status? So at first, when I first, like when first Bitcoin first clicked for

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me. Like, I would just talk about it for like an hour and like see faces glazing over and you know,

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it just felt like I was being annoying. So that was, yeah, you can relate. Yeah. So I was like,

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okay, I'm going to write a book. They'll know I'm really serious about this if I write a book.

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So I wrote a book and yeah, my brother read it. He had great feedback. You know, he got,

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he got a little Bitcoin as well after it. But I still have family members like who, who haven't.

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Thankfully, I mean, my dad read the book and then after that he started saving in Bitcoin.

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So I was like, all right, that's cool.

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Yeah, yeah.

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If you can affect the habits of your father, I think that's a good signal that you're saying some of the right things, you're making sense.

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That's fantastic.

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The other thing, it's so funny that what I think is going to be the most powerful orange peeling tool, and I think, again, not everything you're working on is incredibly important.

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it's actually the interactions with,

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with an everyday life that are going to fundamentally change people's

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opinions because my,

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so my wife and I are expecting our fourth baby this summer and we're upgrading

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her car because we just don't have room for,

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for four and what she currently drives.

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And so we're going through this process of trying to figure this out.

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Like right now at this moment, we might go after,

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after I finished recording, I might be going to pick up a new car.

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We'll see.

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And they don't accept Bitcoin at the car dealership.

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And so we're trying to figure out, okay,

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do we wire? Do we need to get money moved into our checking account, write a check?

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We're sorting all this stuff out. And there are all of these delays. And if you want to do a wire,

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well, you've got to sign off. You've got all of these moving parts. And I told my wife, I said,

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do you, because she's a Bitcoiner by proxy, I guess you could say. And she has to listen to me

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explain these things and why it's so important. But I said, if he could just send me a QR code,

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if the guy at the dealership could just send me a QR code,

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he could be paid in 10 minutes.

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And we don't have to worry about the fact that the weekend's almost here.

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We don't have to do any paperwork.

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He can verify it right then and there.

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I can see that I no longer have access to those funds and we're,

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and we're done.

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And I told the story,

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I don't know if I told on the podcast or one of our Bitcoin banter segments,

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but my sister-in-law had an issue with a contractor who needed to be paid

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very quickly.

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and her bank doesn't have traditional checking account services, so she couldn't pull out

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enough cash. She couldn't pull out any cash. She can just go to the ATM for $200, $400 a day or

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something like that. And she needed several thousand dollars. And she was going to have to

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open a checking account at another bank, initiate a permission to transfer to that bank, and then

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they have a 30 day waiting period to withdraw that much cash because you're a new client.

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We don't know you yet. We need to, you know, there's all these approvals that need to happen

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for us if we wanted to expedite that, but we probably can't. I don't even know what their

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internal rules are, but it's these sorts of everyday examples that I think really awaken

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people to that. So as I'm thinking about what you're working on, sorry, I'm kind of rambling

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here, but as I think about what you're working on, it's those everyday stories that if we can

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articulate those in a medium like an ad that reaches many, many, many, many millions of people

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potentially. Just to have that awakening moment where they realize how insane it is that they have

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to sign off on everything. They have to wait. They're holding periods. Oh, it's a bank holiday.

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It's the weekend. I can't. I have to rush this because of this or that. And oh, never mind. I'm

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We have to wait anyways.

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It all makes no sense unless the only thing that you think is viable is the fiat system.

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The moment you have any understanding of Bitcoin, any understanding of Bitcoin at all, and then you have to jump through those hoops, you think this is absolutely insane.

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It makes no sense.

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So I'm hopeful maybe those are some of the stories that can emerge from these ads.

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I'm curious if you've...

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I watched a couple of the ads.

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I didn't think I got through all of them, but are any of those, the sorts of stories or ads that you envision could be, could be a part of this?

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Yeah, a hundred percent. And like the metaphor that was coming to mind as you were telling that story is almost like back in the early 1900s when people were, you know, horse and buggy going down the dirt road and then their neighbor comes by, you know, on a model way or whatnot.

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right and until you see that neighbor pass you like you're probably going to be very skeptical of

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motorized vehicles and um so i think that there's going to be like time that takes time and like you

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said you can't pay with bitcoin right now to at the dealership but if you could and you had this

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story or like somebody was with you and saw how much easier it was i i think that that's going to

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be when it clicks that you don't have to live in this fiat system that technology has evolved beyond

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that um but but for me too it's like the ease of transactions over lightning is a game changer and

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cash app you know doing what they've done and with square terminals i think that's a huge move

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forward in adoption um and i think that that's a big friction pain point but also i think that

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50 100 years from now people are going to look back and be like wow so many people were working

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and they didn't even know the denominator of their money.

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It's like, why would you work for a money

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and you don't even know how much exists

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or how much is going to exist 10 years from now?

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And I just think that that's going to be like historically,

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like what were people thinking?

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Like why didn't they adopt Bitcoin sooner?

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But like you said, once it clicks, once you experience it,

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once you send your first Bitcoin transaction,

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like this is dumb.

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Like why are we still living this way?

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There's a much better way.

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Yeah, it's just people need to have that experience. Like I think I tweeted about it. I said, hopefully this is my sister-in-law's awakening to Bitcoin because I told her, I said, first of all, it's not money. Second of all, they don't have it. And third, it's not yours. This is why you need Bitcoin. So I'm hoping maybe she starts to ask some more questions.

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my brother is a bit more on board. So they've got a little bit of Bitcoin, but they're not as

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they're not doing a Bitcoin podcast or working in Bitcoin or earning in Bitcoin. I'm hopeful

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these are the sorts of conversations we have that lead them down that path eventually. But

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we'll see, man. Hey, tell me a little bit more about. So on your website, you've got some other

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things that you're doing. So the ads to me, that's the most exciting because I think that's just very

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public. But I know that there are some more personal ways that people can be affected by

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your work. So it's correct me if any of this isn't is inaccurate. It sounds to me like you're

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trying to also find ways to help match people up with Bitcoin jobs, because obviously it's very

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competitive working in the Bitcoin space and then helping early stage Bitcoin startups find people

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who are maybe not willing to work or maybe would like to work for pay, but are willing to work as

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volunteers so they can they have some of these resources, these tools at their disposal to to

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get off the ground, hopefully without a bunch of VC funding. And then now new incentives enter the

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equation. What are you doing there? And did I, was I wrong about any of what I've just described?

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No, you described it correctly. So, so yeah, that's called our guild program and Dan Sherman.

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So he goes by Hoddling J on X. He's the author of the gospel according to Bitcoin. He leads

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the guild program. And the idea there is, yes, it's very competitive to get into

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full-time Bitcoin work for a Bitcoin company.

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So the idea is come help us as an organization, as a nonprofit,

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build your portfolio, put in the proof of work,

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hopefully build your network as well as you're working with different people

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in the Bitcoin space on a volunteer basis.

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And then eventually, yeah, connect you with people within our network

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to hopefully work full-time in Bitcoin.

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And I would say like we really pushed this initiative hard a year or two ago.

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We kind of scaled back and focused more on the ads and the learn directory recently.

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But we getting a lot of interest Like people are submitting forms on bitcoinisbetter for the guild So Dan is like reigniting that program to really put in more effort to bring more people into the Bitcoin

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ecosystem. But I would say like the last few years, I don't think that there's going to be

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enough Bitcoin jobs to go around for Bitcoin people. I mean, there's also like some something

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to working your fiat job and converting that to Bitcoin. It's still working for Bitcoin if you're

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earning Bitcoin. Because unlike the fiat banking system, I don't think that there's going to be as

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much overhead in the Bitcoin economy. It flourishes. There's not going to be as much financialization.

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But I still think that it is a great opportunity to network, to build your portfolio. And then,

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like I said, proof of work will kind of rise the cream to the top. And then hopefully, you know,

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those connections will pay off and then also help our organization get your work out in front of

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more eyeballs. And like I said, on a volunteer basis, we'll take all the help that we can get.

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I think that's fantastic. You know, I'll say as someone who has been involved,

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and first of all, I have people ask me from time to time, like, hey, how do you get a job in

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bitcoin because i have one and i have to be completely honest i i got really lucky i was

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a client of the bitcoin way and so the lines of communication were already open with them i was

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going through like the self-custody setup process when they were looking to hire someone with my

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with my experience and knowledge and so it just sort of worked out so i don't have any real

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tangible you know no personal story to tell however i've been fortunate to be involved in

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some of the hiring that we do. And one of the things that, at least for a company like ours,

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where we are very hardcore, uncompromising, Bitcoin only, toxic maxis, that sort of thing,

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people who are willing to trade some of their time in exchange for that experience,

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that proof of work, a better resume within Bitcoin, that means a lot. And then I would

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also just add some free advice for anyone. If you send exactly what we ask for, like,

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hey, we want a resume and answer these questions or whatever. And you send a resume and answer

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those questions might work out well for you because that's what we're asking for. If you

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do that and then you also go above and beyond and you send a video, you send examples of the work

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that you've done, you reference something that you did for Bitcoin is better, for example,

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and how you connected with them and spent five or 10 or 20 hours a week doing work that you didn't

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have to be doing, but it was because you are on this mission with us, it goes a long way. So I

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love that. What do you, what sort of work? So if I was looking to bolster my resume, if I was

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looking for an opportunity to work for Bitcoin is better, what sort of, because I think there will

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be people who are interested, what sort of work is useful to you right now? And who would you

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accept into that program? Yeah. So right now our immediate need is video editors, graphic designers,

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also programming.

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We've got a few things with our apps

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or with our website that we're wanting to build out.

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So those are the top three that come to mind.

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But really, if you've got a vision

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for how to grow Bitcoin adoption

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within the middle class,

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I'm open to new ideas as well.

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And our board is as well.

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So I want it to be a big tent, basically, a big tent to grow Bitcoin adoption.

397
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But yeah, I'd say out the gate video editing.

398
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If you put together AI videos for Bitcoin content, then yeah, that would be a good place to start.

399
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I think that's a great call to action because some of the videos, again, I didn't watch all of them,

400
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but some of the ads that you guys put together I thought looked really good.

401
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I like the, I think it was Thomas Jefferson, George Washington one.

402
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I thought it was cool.

403
00:33:28,648 --> 00:33:38,948
But I know that there are really talented people or even people who are maybe not designers themselves or videographers or anything like that.

404
00:33:38,948 --> 00:33:40,208
But they're really good with AI.

405
00:33:40,548 --> 00:33:48,948
They've got a creative lens by which they view the world who could produce sort of a next level of content for you guys very quickly.

406
00:33:48,948 --> 00:33:56,448
And at least your portfolio of the content that you're offering for people to vote on and to send sats in on could grow exponentially.

407
00:33:56,648 --> 00:34:03,528
So if you're one of those people listening, if you can create an awesome 30, 60 second AI ad or not an AI ad, right?

408
00:34:03,588 --> 00:34:04,768
Make it fully authentic.

409
00:34:05,208 --> 00:34:08,668
I think those are people that would benefit immensely.

410
00:34:08,768 --> 00:34:11,368
And I think you guys would see the fruits of that labor as well.

411
00:34:13,048 --> 00:34:16,028
What's your take on scaling Bitcoin is better?

412
00:34:16,028 --> 00:34:40,368
So as you think about your very, you know, sort of a recent post launch that we're discussing this, how do we get from what you're doing now, a handful of ads that you guys have generated to an ad in the Super Bowl, for example, is maybe sort of the pinnacle of advertising nirvana.

413
00:34:40,908 --> 00:34:43,628
What do you think needs to happen between now and then?

414
00:34:43,628 --> 00:34:47,688
I think our ads need to be better.

415
00:34:48,168 --> 00:34:50,688
So hopefully we can level up our ads and our storytelling.

416
00:34:52,168 --> 00:34:55,828
I think after we get the first ad running on, you know,

417
00:34:57,528 --> 00:35:02,068
normie airways and we start to get some metrics in for number of learners per

418
00:35:02,068 --> 00:35:04,368
ad dollars, I think that those metrics will help.

419
00:35:05,088 --> 00:35:09,888
And I think ultimately it's going to come down to Bitcoiners because there is

420
00:35:09,888 --> 00:35:18,728
a lot of, I don't know the right word to define it, but basically if you go on Geyser, Geyser

421
00:35:18,728 --> 00:35:26,008
Fund, a lot of great projects never get funded. So a big hesitation with the Bitcoin is better

422
00:35:26,008 --> 00:35:31,868
approach is will Bitcoiners donate? Will they actually support this? Like Bitcoiners will go to

423
00:35:31,868 --> 00:35:38,328
multiple conferences per year, spend millions of sats to go and hear the same speeches by the same

424
00:35:38,328 --> 00:35:42,868
speakers multiple times. And I mean, there's networking opportunities there and, you know,

425
00:35:42,868 --> 00:35:47,648
there's benefits to going to conferences. But that's a question I've been wrestling with is

426
00:35:47,648 --> 00:35:55,528
like, why do most Geyser funds fail? And can we come together as a community and get behind this

427
00:35:55,528 --> 00:36:02,968
idea of giving back to people who, you know, haven't experienced Bitcoin yet, like giving

428
00:36:02,968 --> 00:36:08,388
Bitcoin to people because Bitcoin has improved our lives so much. So it's a, it's an optimistic

429
00:36:08,388 --> 00:36:15,468
experiment. Like for my, in my mind, like best case scenario is we have a Superbowl ad. It's

430
00:36:15,468 --> 00:36:20,168
fully scaled up. We've got this beautiful learn directory that's curated with, with, you know,

431
00:36:20,188 --> 00:36:24,468
a one-stop shop that we can print, send friends and families, family to when they're curious and

432
00:36:24,468 --> 00:36:31,528
ready to start learning about Bitcoin. But worst case scenario is, okay, we've got these ads,

433
00:36:31,528 --> 00:36:36,988
We've got a modest learn directory that's still a helpful resource for the Bitcoin community,

434
00:36:37,308 --> 00:36:40,388
but maybe donations didn't come in the way we thought they would.

435
00:36:40,448 --> 00:36:44,468
And we didn't get out on the airwaves like we thought we could, but we still come together.

436
00:36:44,788 --> 00:36:50,428
We came together as a 12-person volunteer board and put together this helpful resource for the community.

437
00:36:50,928 --> 00:36:52,508
So it's an optimistic experiment.

438
00:36:52,788 --> 00:36:53,948
I hope it scales up.

439
00:36:54,008 --> 00:36:58,368
I hope that we're able to get thousands, millions of learners, whatnot.

440
00:36:58,888 --> 00:36:59,728
That would be amazing.

441
00:36:59,728 --> 00:37:04,528
but if not, like we're going to still give it our best. So it's really, it's an experiment. And I,

442
00:37:04,528 --> 00:37:10,608
I don't know if it's going to be crowdfunding, uh, you know, plebs zapping sats to their favorite ads,

443
00:37:10,608 --> 00:37:14,368
or if it's going to be, you know, getting a few whales and then hooking them up with the production

444
00:37:14,368 --> 00:37:20,208
team and then we get the ads out. Um, so, so yeah, I guess, I don't know. That's a long way of saying,

445
00:37:20,208 --> 00:37:27,568
I don't know, Michael. I think it's a fair answer. My, my only request of you as you,

446
00:37:27,568 --> 00:37:33,028
you look at going to whales is that you're cautious about, because I think there's value

447
00:37:33,028 --> 00:37:38,188
to centralization when it comes to something like this, because people can get behind the vision of

448
00:37:38,188 --> 00:37:42,248
what you're doing and say, okay, I like this guy. I like what they're doing. I like the message

449
00:37:42,248 --> 00:37:48,028
they're sending. I'm going to invest in this. I'm going to send some sats. I'm going to vote on an

450
00:37:48,028 --> 00:37:54,148
ad. It's very easy. I think at times when you start to get someone who says, Hey, I've got,

451
00:37:54,148 --> 00:37:57,168
I hold 1,000 Bitcoin or 10,000 Bitcoin.

452
00:37:57,768 --> 00:37:59,648
And yeah, I'll fund this.

453
00:37:59,768 --> 00:38:01,848
But this is what I want the message to be.

454
00:38:02,568 --> 00:38:06,428
And it in some way deviates from the real intent.

455
00:38:06,668 --> 00:38:08,448
But it's like, hey, this could be our Super Bowl ad.

456
00:38:08,588 --> 00:38:11,428
Okay, but is it just another Coinbase Super Bowl ad?

457
00:38:11,748 --> 00:38:13,368
That's not what we're going for.

458
00:38:13,428 --> 00:38:16,128
But if they fund it and they put all their support behind it,

459
00:38:16,168 --> 00:38:19,988
there is the opportunity for a whale to make their own,

460
00:38:20,688 --> 00:38:23,188
to make waves, pun intended.

461
00:38:23,188 --> 00:38:31,488
And to, I don't know, maybe to potentially dilute really the message that I think you are here to send.

462
00:38:31,888 --> 00:38:42,928
Are there any, I don't know, checks and balances on that where you say, hey, this was not like you vet the ads yourself or does your team vet the ads before they go up?

463
00:38:42,928 --> 00:38:48,208
will that continue as you have hopefully more funding come in because you want to make sure

464
00:38:48,208 --> 00:38:53,568
that we're not just we don't have one whale who's massively funding some generic crypto ad or

465
00:38:53,568 --> 00:38:59,648
something like that right um yeah because one of our original ideas was just to set up our website

466
00:38:59,648 --> 00:39:03,088
where somebody could upload their video and it automatically went to the you know

467
00:39:03,968 --> 00:39:09,968
that's dangerous yeah that's dangerous after yeah after talking that through as a board we're like

468
00:39:09,968 --> 00:39:17,328
no we better we better have a curation process so yeah 100 um has to get a majority vote from the

469
00:39:17,328 --> 00:39:24,208
board to be put up on our ads platform and then it's a non-negotiable that we send traffic to

470
00:39:24,208 --> 00:39:29,648
bitcoin is better.org which is a learn directory that's also curated by our board to be bitcoin

471
00:39:29,648 --> 00:39:36,528
only and to be helpful yeah so that was the other thing i wanted to ask you about is the where you

472
00:39:36,528 --> 00:39:42,608
direct people so let's say we get we get our super bowl ad going and we have millions of eyeballs on

473
00:39:42,608 --> 00:39:47,888
bitcoin is better learning about bitcoin and they are being funneled somewhere to your website

474
00:39:47,888 --> 00:39:54,048
presumably and uh i think it really matters a lot what the first thing they see what their first

475
00:39:54,048 --> 00:40:00,928
touch point is on that website uh obviously and you know i i hope people see the bitcoin ways spot

476
00:40:00,928 --> 00:40:05,968
is you know great but more importantly those people aren't they're not thinking about self-custody

477
00:40:05,968 --> 00:40:07,988
because they don't even know what self-custody is.

478
00:40:08,388 --> 00:40:12,188
They're thinking that something about that ad resonated with me.

479
00:40:12,588 --> 00:40:13,848
What do I not understand?

480
00:40:13,988 --> 00:40:14,768
What do I not know?

481
00:40:14,848 --> 00:40:15,668
What is Bitcoin?

482
00:40:16,448 --> 00:40:21,528
And like, what do you view the future of that landing page

483
00:40:21,528 --> 00:40:25,368
or whatever their first interaction with the website to be?

484
00:40:26,548 --> 00:40:30,148
Because just imagine a world where you have a Super Bowl ad.

485
00:40:30,548 --> 00:40:33,968
That needs to be an incredibly important bit of information

486
00:40:33,968 --> 00:40:36,248
that you're sharing when they get directed to that site.

487
00:40:37,068 --> 00:40:38,728
What do you think that needs to be?

488
00:40:38,788 --> 00:40:40,908
And what's sort of your vision for where you're headed with it?

489
00:40:41,868 --> 00:40:43,988
Yeah, so that's where the guild comes in.

490
00:40:44,388 --> 00:40:49,228
We're hoping that a web developer can come and help us to optimize that welcome.

491
00:40:50,188 --> 00:40:52,608
Right now, we just have two buttons up.

492
00:40:52,608 --> 00:40:56,648
It's learn about Bitcoin or watch the TV ads.

493
00:40:57,288 --> 00:40:58,308
So which way do you want to go?

494
00:40:58,388 --> 00:41:03,188
And then we've got it kind of structured by books, podcasts, and businesses.

495
00:41:03,968 --> 00:41:06,668
Each one broken down into their different category.

496
00:41:07,608 --> 00:41:12,868
But yeah, I mean, in my mind, it would be a friendly face welcoming them to Bitcoinisbetter.org

497
00:41:12,868 --> 00:41:17,028
and then make it interactive, like which ad connected with you.

498
00:41:17,488 --> 00:41:22,288
Here's the top three things that you may not know about Bitcoin, but you should know.

499
00:41:22,668 --> 00:41:24,508
And then you click and work through.

500
00:41:24,848 --> 00:41:27,108
But yeah, that's the good thing about starting small.

501
00:41:27,288 --> 00:41:33,088
We're starting small and hopefully over time we'll learn and optimize before we get on the big stage.

502
00:41:33,088 --> 00:41:37,028
and have that responsibility to optimize that onboarding process.

503
00:41:37,468 --> 00:41:37,568
Yeah.

504
00:41:37,668 --> 00:41:40,768
I have to imagine you've got five or 10 people who will hear this,

505
00:41:41,268 --> 00:41:45,048
who will listen to this podcast who say, I can contribute to that.

506
00:41:45,088 --> 00:41:46,428
I can help make that good.

507
00:41:46,768 --> 00:41:48,628
The thing, it takes a village though, right?

508
00:41:48,628 --> 00:41:50,088
Because yeah, you need software engineers.

509
00:41:50,188 --> 00:41:51,088
You need web developers.

510
00:41:51,588 --> 00:41:52,708
You need really good designers.

511
00:41:52,708 --> 00:41:53,768
It needs to look clean.

512
00:41:54,268 --> 00:41:57,328
You need, and the hardest part is what is the content?

513
00:41:57,528 --> 00:41:58,788
What is the message, right?

514
00:41:58,948 --> 00:42:01,548
I've presented to two or three churches now

515
00:42:01,548 --> 00:42:07,788
trying to get them to adopt a Bitcoin treasury. And each time I do the presentation and like slide

516
00:42:07,788 --> 00:42:14,108
deck and all, and I think, is this the best way that I can present this to them? Am I overwhelming

517
00:42:14,108 --> 00:42:19,848
them? Do I sound like a crazy person? Is it logical? You know, like I have, I really have no,

518
00:42:19,928 --> 00:42:24,568
I'm just guessing. And there is certainly, there are certainly resources that do it much better

519
00:42:24,568 --> 00:42:31,148
than I could. And maybe you should team up with someone like Joe Bryan from Sats versus Fiat.

520
00:42:31,148 --> 00:42:35,628
you know he did the what's the problem video something like that if we could like i think 40

521
00:42:35,628 --> 00:42:39,948
minutes is a little bit long but an abbreviated version of something like that i think it'd be

522
00:42:39,948 --> 00:42:46,108
incredibly impactful for people but i i don't have the answer well it requires someone who is way

523
00:42:46,108 --> 00:42:51,148
smarter or at least way more thoughtful than i am who who's who can explain this stuff simply it's

524
00:42:51,148 --> 00:42:56,908
it in me otherwise i'd volunteer and help you man yeah and that goes back to um the bitcoin

525
00:42:56,908 --> 00:43:03,548
Marketing Association. So the guy that leads that, his name is Randy. And that's his specialty. He's

526
00:43:03,548 --> 00:43:09,808
done paid media for 25 years, especially in like regulated environments. And his vision for the

527
00:43:09,808 --> 00:43:15,828
Bitcoin Marketing Association is figuring out what messaging works for converting someone from

528
00:43:15,828 --> 00:43:26,168
no coiner to a bitcoiner. So he's going to look at that data and try to figure out what works for

529
00:43:26,168 --> 00:43:30,348
certain audiences, like what clicks for them, Bitcoin is better. And how do you frame it? How

530
00:43:30,348 --> 00:43:36,168
do you say it? So that's not my specialty. But thankfully, you know, Randy's coming to the

531
00:43:36,168 --> 00:43:41,948
picture with what they're doing at the Bitcoin Marketing Association. And his idea is to share

532
00:43:41,948 --> 00:43:48,088
that data with different Bitcoin companies who have a marketing advertising budget and, you know,

533
00:43:48,108 --> 00:43:54,228
want to know what messages are working with their future customers. So it's a really cool

534
00:43:54,228 --> 00:43:56,128
a nonprofit model he has going as well.

535
00:43:56,568 --> 00:43:57,188
That's fantastic.

536
00:43:57,348 --> 00:43:58,468
You need to connect me with him

537
00:43:58,468 --> 00:44:00,888
because I'd like that for my own personal benefit.

538
00:44:01,068 --> 00:44:13,062
I don want to walk into another church or to my local farmer market without being armed with something better than what I done before I two for two on the churches but I think it more because I offered to help

539
00:44:13,062 --> 00:44:18,782
seed their treasury, not because I just made such a compelling case for Bitcoin. I think they're

540
00:44:18,782 --> 00:44:24,702
like, hey, this guy wants to give us something. I guess we can accept it. We'd be idiots if we

541
00:44:24,702 --> 00:44:31,262
didn't. I love that. So the last thing I wanted to talk with you about as we head for home here is

542
00:44:31,262 --> 00:44:36,582
a topic we talk a lot about on the podcast. It just comes up in just about everything these days

543
00:44:36,582 --> 00:44:43,522
is AI. So you talking with Adam, I understand you guys used AI for a lot of the development

544
00:44:43,522 --> 00:44:48,442
of what you've done so far. I would love to know your, tell us a little bit about your background

545
00:44:48,442 --> 00:44:55,042
because I know you've got some other, some work that you do in the outside of Bitcoin is better

546
00:44:55,042 --> 00:45:00,282
that I think is related to some of this stuff and maybe has enabled you to better leverage AI tools.

547
00:45:00,282 --> 00:45:05,122
How did this all come together and what was AI's role in it?

548
00:45:05,922 --> 00:45:07,922
Yeah, so a little background on myself.

549
00:45:08,262 --> 00:45:09,522
I'm an industrial engineer.

550
00:45:09,902 --> 00:45:17,842
I started my career building databases and reporting for Fortune 100 companies, including the big banks.

551
00:45:18,302 --> 00:45:21,382
So Bank of America, Wells Fargo, I was a contractor.

552
00:45:21,802 --> 00:45:23,882
That was before my Bitcoin days.

553
00:45:24,002 --> 00:45:24,802
I became my own bank.

554
00:45:24,802 --> 00:45:25,182
Yeah, I had the lines.

555
00:45:25,182 --> 00:45:33,262
So I became a full-time entrepreneur in 2018. I did a bunch of different businesses,

556
00:45:33,262 --> 00:45:39,762
but ultimately I landed on, I'm a Microsoft certified Excel expert. So I did consulting

557
00:45:39,762 --> 00:45:45,342
for about six months where I would come in and help these small, medium-sized businesses with

558
00:45:45,342 --> 00:45:50,962
their spreadsheet nightmares, add some VBA, some AppScript to their Google script, some buttons,

559
00:45:50,962 --> 00:45:56,962
make it better. And then I had one client about a year, year and a half ago, who asked me to build

560
00:45:56,962 --> 00:46:01,662
a custom web app for them instead of a spreadsheet. I was like, okay, sure, I'll take a shot. You know,

561
00:46:01,682 --> 00:46:06,002
I was certified in Python back in 2019. So maybe it's like riding a bike, you know,

562
00:46:06,142 --> 00:46:11,462
we'll take a shot at it. And then I discovered these like AI, you know, app building tools,

563
00:46:11,622 --> 00:46:17,722
and it's been off to the races since then. So I've transitioned from SheetSignal, where I was

564
00:46:17,722 --> 00:46:23,082
a Microsoft certified Excel expert to now run an agency called Express Apps Agency.

565
00:46:23,442 --> 00:46:26,662
And we help our clients escape spreadsheets.

566
00:46:26,662 --> 00:46:30,502
So we build AI empowered apps.

567
00:46:31,322 --> 00:46:35,822
And yeah, it's really amazing how that technology has come along.

568
00:46:37,182 --> 00:46:42,722
So that and then recently launched something called the AICardInstitute.org.

569
00:46:43,142 --> 00:46:47,142
And the idea behind the AICard Institute is to measure your workforce

570
00:46:47,142 --> 00:46:51,782
and how AI ready they are to identify your AI champions

571
00:46:51,782 --> 00:46:58,462
and basically find the critical gaps in their understanding and measure it.

572
00:46:58,462 --> 00:47:03,502
And then we offer a training, so customized training based on the test results.

573
00:47:04,222 --> 00:47:07,402
And then also we can come in and build systems if that's the best route

574
00:47:07,402 --> 00:47:12,662
or the business owner can just take the strategy report and their CEO report

575
00:47:12,662 --> 00:47:14,862
and all that information and do it themselves.

576
00:47:14,862 --> 00:47:26,402
But I think that the biggest problem in small business right now with medium-sized business with AI is like you buy all your employees a chat GPT subscription and you think, okay, I checked the box on AI.

577
00:47:27,102 --> 00:47:29,622
But you don't want to get comfortable in that position.

578
00:47:30,162 --> 00:47:37,502
That's like buying everyone a gym membership and then expecting all of your employees to be healthy just because you bought the gym membership.

579
00:47:38,042 --> 00:47:38,102
Right.

580
00:47:38,102 --> 00:48:02,722
So it's really important to measure where you're at. And I think that we can help a lot of small, medium-sized businesses compete with the big guys. Because I saw working for some of these big corporations, they're putting teams together, huge teams to just build projects that now AI can help a smaller, medium-sized business build with 90% less costs, but still get similar results.

581
00:48:02,722 --> 00:48:07,402
So I view AI, both AI and Bitcoin as like leveling the playing field.

582
00:48:07,582 --> 00:48:11,022
And I think that we really need to lean into that technology.

583
00:48:11,282 --> 00:48:18,022
So that's where I devote my nine to five, you know, daytime effort is helping small

584
00:48:18,022 --> 00:48:19,322
medium size business do that.

585
00:48:19,982 --> 00:48:20,022
Interesting.

586
00:48:20,362 --> 00:48:22,082
So I've sort of had this assumption.

587
00:48:22,242 --> 00:48:23,762
This is not a thesis or anything.

588
00:48:23,922 --> 00:48:26,262
I have no idea what's really going to play out.

589
00:48:26,282 --> 00:48:29,182
But I've had this assumption that there's going to come a day here in the very near

590
00:48:29,182 --> 00:48:34,702
future when you onboard you're hired by a company you onboard and part of the onboarding process

591
00:48:34,702 --> 00:48:41,822
is hey here's your you know here's your pc and here's your mac mini that's all set up for you to

592
00:48:42,542 --> 00:48:48,542
it'll query salesforce or you know your crm it'll answer questions write emails do all this stuff

593
00:48:49,182 --> 00:48:55,982
and you sort of have access to your own customized personal ai bot that can help you automate all of

594
00:48:55,982 --> 00:49:01,582
your work, maybe dial the phone for you and your job is just to talk to the customer, talk to the

595
00:49:01,582 --> 00:49:07,742
prospect or whatever job that you're working in. Do you think this is just a matter of curiosity?

596
00:49:07,742 --> 00:49:11,822
Do you think that is what's going to happen or do you think it's going to be more of a simple

597
00:49:11,822 --> 00:49:19,182
setup like you describe? Everyone gets a ChatGPT subscription and it's maybe enterprise level. So

598
00:49:19,182 --> 00:49:25,262
there's some amount of privacy if you believe Sam Altman. What do you think the future of small

599
00:49:25,262 --> 00:49:29,182
business in their use of AI is at least over the next couple of years, 10 years from now,

600
00:49:29,322 --> 00:49:32,902
I don't think either of us probably have any concept of how crazy it could get.

601
00:49:33,422 --> 00:49:33,562
Yeah.

602
00:49:34,342 --> 00:49:35,182
Oh, yeah.

603
00:49:35,222 --> 00:49:41,302
So I think we're slowly transitioning out of AI chat into AI agents.

604
00:49:42,342 --> 00:49:46,602
So the easiest way to break down the difference between the two is AI chat is you have a

605
00:49:46,602 --> 00:49:50,802
question, AI gives you an answer better than Google can give you an answer.

606
00:49:50,802 --> 00:50:00,782
yeah um ai agents it's you give the agent a task and then the goal of that task and it completes it

607
00:50:00,782 --> 00:50:10,062
you know from from start to finish um i i'm similar to your vision i think within two years it's going

608
00:50:10,062 --> 00:50:15,842
to be um to be competitive in the workforce you're going to have to work alongside an agent

609
00:50:15,842 --> 00:50:21,002
as the curator, as the skill creator for the AI agent.

610
00:50:21,882 --> 00:50:26,782
And that's where I'm leaning heavy right now is with AI agent skills.

611
00:50:27,782 --> 00:50:33,682
So actually going in and doing a process from start to finish with an AI chat.

612
00:50:33,922 --> 00:50:38,082
And then at the end of that AI chat, it's like, okay, we got this process where it needed to be.

613
00:50:38,182 --> 00:50:40,702
We worked out all the hiccups, create a skill for my agent.

614
00:50:41,582 --> 00:50:45,382
And then the AI agent will create the skill for you.

615
00:50:45,382 --> 00:50:48,502
and then the agent can run off and do it on its own.

616
00:50:48,722 --> 00:50:51,002
But yeah, I don't know if it's going to be more open source

617
00:50:51,002 --> 00:50:52,982
like OpenClaw or I mean,

618
00:50:53,222 --> 00:50:56,882
Claude just launched managed agents this past week.

619
00:50:57,642 --> 00:50:59,022
So I don't know.

620
00:50:59,142 --> 00:51:02,702
I mean, anytime you approach a business with open source,

621
00:51:02,842 --> 00:51:04,222
I mean, there's security vulnerabilities.

622
00:51:04,682 --> 00:51:06,862
There's a lot more things you have to do

623
00:51:06,862 --> 00:51:11,582
versus Claude's got their policy,

624
00:51:11,582 --> 00:51:17,102
They're, you know, large organization security measures behind this product.

625
00:51:17,442 --> 00:51:25,202
So I would lean, I don't know, I think probably OpenClaw is going to be more niche, at least in the beginning.

626
00:51:25,822 --> 00:51:30,682
And I think the clods and the open AIs and stuff will probably capture most of the small business.

627
00:51:30,802 --> 00:51:32,622
But I think that there's a place for both.

628
00:51:32,702 --> 00:51:36,902
And I think that open source keeps the big guys honest as well, more honest.

629
00:51:37,402 --> 00:51:38,182
Okay, interesting.

630
00:51:38,182 --> 00:51:45,362
So I'm curious if you're willing to share if you have your own agent that you're running and what your setup looks like.

631
00:51:46,402 --> 00:51:47,962
That's probably best for another.

632
00:51:48,422 --> 00:51:51,302
Yeah, we could go deep down that rabbit hole.

633
00:51:51,702 --> 00:51:54,782
Let's do an AI pod next time we get together.

634
00:51:55,302 --> 00:51:57,182
You know, I try to keep it Bitcoin focused.

635
00:51:57,902 --> 00:52:00,482
At the same time, there's a lot of interdependency.

636
00:52:01,102 --> 00:52:03,442
The agents are going to use Bitcoin, I believe.

637
00:52:03,442 --> 00:52:07,662
I talked with Dave Birnbaum about this recently and we had a great chat.

638
00:52:07,662 --> 00:52:12,442
It's a really good reason to be bullish, but I think people are interested.

639
00:52:12,602 --> 00:52:15,042
They're trying to figure out what does this mean for my career?

640
00:52:15,302 --> 00:52:16,802
What should I be learning, studying?

641
00:52:17,242 --> 00:52:21,202
What skills do I need to work alongside of an agent, to out-compete an agent?

642
00:52:21,882 --> 00:52:23,762
They just have no idea where to even begin.

643
00:52:24,322 --> 00:52:25,662
And I kind of feel the same way.

644
00:52:26,022 --> 00:52:32,722
I've got my own setup, and it's so far from what it probably could or should be,

645
00:52:32,982 --> 00:52:34,122
but I'm learning.

646
00:52:34,342 --> 00:52:35,702
I know I'm just scratching the surface.

647
00:52:35,702 --> 00:52:44,122
And I would just say too, like the last six months has, I think, been a foreshadowing of what it's going to be like with Bitcoin one day.

648
00:52:44,282 --> 00:52:46,502
Because we're all seeing like AI in action.

649
00:52:46,642 --> 00:52:48,402
And if you don't use it, you get left behind.

650
00:52:49,042 --> 00:52:57,842
We haven't really seen that with the Bitcoin adoption wave quite yet, where people are looking at, oh, if I don't adopt the Bitcoin treasury for my business, I'm going to get left behind.

651
00:52:57,942 --> 00:52:58,862
How do I do this?

652
00:52:59,362 --> 00:53:01,082
Because my competitors are getting ahead.

653
00:53:01,082 --> 00:53:20,642
So I think eventually like AI is going first, but I think we're going to experience something similar with Bitcoin where people unfortunately have that fear of missing out and it drives curiosity because the idea with Bitcoin is better is, you know, people can have that desire for education out of curiosity or out of pain.

654
00:53:20,962 --> 00:53:25,842
And we're trying to like spark it with curiosity before the pain really kicks in.

655
00:53:26,862 --> 00:53:28,022
But I don't know.

656
00:53:28,022 --> 00:53:35,322
I mean, we'll see what percentage of people react to curiosity versus pain and fear of missing out.

657
00:53:35,742 --> 00:53:35,882
Yeah.

658
00:53:36,102 --> 00:53:44,162
You're never too late to Bitcoin, but you might be so late that you just don't get a whole lot of it without having to go figure out new skills and earn it.

659
00:53:44,162 --> 00:53:48,182
I think is where we're headed probably much sooner than most people can imagine.

660
00:53:48,702 --> 00:53:51,662
So, okay, man, let's end on this final question.

661
00:53:51,762 --> 00:53:52,982
I warned you in advance.

662
00:53:53,302 --> 00:53:55,102
What is an unpopular opinion you have?

663
00:53:55,162 --> 00:53:57,682
You get bonus points if you offend some Bitcoiners with it.

664
00:53:58,022 --> 00:54:02,842
All right. So I'm going to use scripture for this one. So 2 Timothy 3.7.

665
00:54:03,602 --> 00:54:07,482
They were always learning, but never coming to knowledge of the truth.

666
00:54:08,462 --> 00:54:14,582
And I think in Bitcoin, we can almost become selfish by going down the rabbit hole too deeply

667
00:54:14,582 --> 00:54:21,222
without coming up to people who haven't even entered the rabbit hole yet and explaining it

668
00:54:21,222 --> 00:54:30,422
simple terms. So I think an unpopular opinion that I hold is whether it's conferences, podcasts,

669
00:54:30,422 --> 00:54:35,782
like all these different ways that we just dive so deep into all this theoretical future on a

670
00:54:35,782 --> 00:54:43,462
Bitcoin standard or with AI, instead of diving so, so deep and almost becoming like selfish in our

671
00:54:44,022 --> 00:54:49,702
intellectual pursuit, like my opinion is we should come back up, maybe not go so deep,

672
00:54:49,702 --> 00:54:52,902
but like come back up and bring other people into the better system.

673
00:54:53,702 --> 00:54:58,582
I think that's a good one. It's I'll tell you for myself of the first two years of my journey,

674
00:54:58,582 --> 00:55:02,982
I was listening to multiple hours of Bitcoin podcasts a day. And to be fair at the time,

675
00:55:02,982 --> 00:55:07,622
I didn't understand it real well. It wasn't as self-indulgent. I just didn't know anything.

676
00:55:08,502 --> 00:55:14,262
But it was a lot of consumption, a lot of consumption. And lately I've been, like I said,

677
00:55:14,262 --> 00:55:19,142
trying to orange peel my church, my church, another church here in town. And I think maybe

678
00:55:19,142 --> 00:55:24,422
more important for my sanity. I've really unwound from listening to a lot of Bitcoin podcasts and

679
00:55:24,422 --> 00:55:29,622
I've dug into some other podcasts, other topics of interest and things that I think round me out a bit

680
00:55:29,622 --> 00:55:35,062
better as a human. So my only knowledge that isn't that we need Bitcoin and that everyone needs

681
00:55:35,062 --> 00:55:40,102
Bitcoin. And I also think that some of what I've explored has actually helped me explain Bitcoin

682
00:55:40,102 --> 00:55:44,662
better because I've learned, like I've gone down sort of the history, revolutionary war,

683
00:55:44,662 --> 00:55:53,942
rabbit hole, a lot of those things. And it sort of reinforces my desire to promote Bitcoin because

684
00:55:53,942 --> 00:55:58,342
I realized how far we've gone. And I think a lot of people have done that too, very effectively in

685
00:55:58,342 --> 00:56:03,462
the health space and whatever their topics of interest are. And it's refreshing, I think,

686
00:56:03,462 --> 00:56:10,182
at times to have those sorts of conversations and to take a little bit of a breath from the same

687
00:56:10,182 --> 00:56:16,422
same old stuff. But again, I think it's just, it's a balancing act, right? Like life is not Bitcoin,

688
00:56:16,902 --> 00:56:20,782
but Bitcoin is a very important thing that I'm grateful that you're investing your time in.

689
00:56:21,362 --> 00:56:25,422
And hopefully people are going to, hopefully what you're doing is going to end up reaching

690
00:56:25,422 --> 00:56:30,522
millions of people for the better. So I appreciate that. And I appreciate your time, man. Why don't

691
00:56:30,522 --> 00:56:35,682
you tell people where they can find you? Show anything. You've got a lot of stuff going on.

692
00:56:35,682 --> 00:56:39,622
Tell them where they can follow you, find you, look up more about Bitcoin is better, anything.

693
00:56:40,182 --> 00:56:42,882
Yeah. And thank you. I've really enjoyed this conversation, Michael.

694
00:56:43,022 --> 00:56:45,122
And I love what you guys are doing at the Bitcoin way.

695
00:56:45,862 --> 00:56:52,542
You're one of the good guys in the space and there's such mission alignment, you know, between our organizations.

696
00:56:52,542 --> 00:56:56,482
So really, really happy to have this chat today and hopefully it's the first of many.

697
00:56:57,722 --> 00:57:01,902
So, yeah, as far as shilling, I mean, I just say I'm on X.

698
00:57:02,082 --> 00:57:05,882
So at D.C. Hirsch, D.C. H.E.R.S.H.

699
00:57:05,882 --> 00:57:09,282
that's where I spend most of my social media time

700
00:57:09,282 --> 00:57:11,062
my DMs are open

701
00:57:11,062 --> 00:57:14,322
if you want to reach out to me about the organization

702
00:57:14,322 --> 00:57:16,902
and also our website

703
00:57:16,902 --> 00:57:18,102
bitcoinisbetter.org

704
00:57:18,102 --> 00:57:21,362
if some of the things that we were talking about

705
00:57:21,362 --> 00:57:23,902
things that we need from our volunteer base

706
00:57:23,902 --> 00:57:25,682
connect with you and you want to contribute

707
00:57:25,682 --> 00:57:28,082
and help us grow middle class adoption of Bitcoin

708
00:57:28,082 --> 00:57:30,742
please reach out through our guild program

709
00:57:30,742 --> 00:57:32,682
and we'll be happy to meet with you

710
00:57:32,682 --> 00:57:34,462
to be either myself or Dan Sherman

711
00:57:34,462 --> 00:57:35,582
Perfect

712
00:57:35,582 --> 00:57:38,402
And to our listeners, please, let's help these guys get off the ground.

713
00:57:38,542 --> 00:57:40,702
I think what you guys are doing is incredibly important work.

714
00:57:41,122 --> 00:57:42,702
Daniel, it's been a pleasure, a lot of fun.

715
00:57:42,762 --> 00:57:44,022
I hope we get to do this again sometime.

716
00:57:44,322 --> 00:57:46,422
And best of luck with all that you're working on, my friend.

717
00:57:46,782 --> 00:57:47,062
All right.

718
00:57:47,082 --> 00:57:47,622
Thank you, Michael.

719
00:57:47,842 --> 00:57:48,102
Take care.

720
00:57:48,722 --> 00:57:49,942
And that's a wrap again.

721
00:57:50,042 --> 00:57:51,782
Hope you enjoyed my conversation with Daniel.

722
00:57:51,942 --> 00:57:52,742
I know I did.

723
00:57:52,862 --> 00:57:54,382
Go check out Bitcoin is Better.

724
00:57:54,762 --> 00:57:55,622
Send him some sats.

725
00:57:55,722 --> 00:57:56,742
Vote on one of these ads.

726
00:57:56,822 --> 00:58:00,842
It's such a great way to support Bitcoiners who are doing the right thing, doing very important work.

727
00:58:01,262 --> 00:58:07,062
Of course, if you need help taking your Bitcoin into proper 100% self-custody, go to thebitcoinway.com

728
00:58:07,062 --> 00:58:07,962
slash podcast.

729
00:58:08,222 --> 00:58:11,902
You can schedule a free 30-minute introductory call with a member of our team.

730
00:58:12,202 --> 00:58:15,802
We can also help you with protecting your online privacy, setting up a privacy phone.

731
00:58:16,162 --> 00:58:21,322
We even have a very, very popular Plan B residency option in freedom-loving Panama.

732
00:58:21,802 --> 00:58:24,002
Again, it's thebitcoinway.com slash podcast.

733
00:58:24,002 --> 00:58:25,202
We'll walk you through what we do.

734
00:58:25,582 --> 00:58:28,362
This is for people who are serious about their self-sovereignty.

735
00:58:28,862 --> 00:58:29,342
Do me a favor.

736
00:58:29,422 --> 00:58:31,062
If you haven't already subscribed to the channel,

737
00:58:31,162 --> 00:58:32,762
give us a like, comment, share it with someone

738
00:58:32,762 --> 00:58:34,602
who you think might be interested in it.

739
00:58:34,642 --> 00:58:35,862
We'd really appreciate that.

740
00:58:36,162 --> 00:58:38,942
And until next time, stay safe, stay sovereign,

741
00:58:38,942 --> 00:58:41,782
and remember the yield on Bitcoin is freedom.