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I went from a high school dropout to building a seven-figure online company within a couple of

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months with just talking to AI for four, six, eight, ten hours a day. Like, it was absolutely

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relentless. You've been the person who I've been following on this journey who is most excited,

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optimistic. Everything I've seen from you is like, guys, this will change your life. Learn to do it,

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but like, put in the time. It's like Bitcoin. You're not going to get it straight away. It's

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asymmetric bet, right? Like even if you're wrong, like your time wasted is not as near as much as

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the opportunity cost of not doing it if the AI maxis and the Bitcoin maxis are right.

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The money and everything's broken and it's getting worse and worse and worse and we've got

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like three or four hundred thousand Australians now homeless because the government's just

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obliterating the money. It's absolutely worthless.

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Hey, everyone. Michael here with the Bitcoin Way podcast. Thank you for tuning in. Today on the

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show, I have Sean Clark, a good friend and partner of the Bitcoin Way. We dug deep into AI. He has

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been on quite a journey. Fascinating stuff. I mean, these tools are incredibly powerful. If you

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are behind and you've just been chatting with ChatGPT or whatever your little LLM friend is,

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this is way bigger than that. I'm going to be digging deep on this very soon. You will get a

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lot out of this conversation. And I hope you start going down this rabbit hole as well.

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You will love this conversation. Everyone, like I said in the intro, I've got Sean here with me.

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Sean, welcome to the Bitcoin Way podcast. Michael Jordan, always a pleasure. How are you, mate?

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Good, my friend. It's been a long time coming. I don't know why I didn't reach out to you long,

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long ago, but I knew I had you on my list and I'm glad we get to talk. I think I found you at

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like peak Sean time because it's always been Bitcoin. And then lately I've seen your feed

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more and more interesting stuff on AI. I want to spend a lot of time on that because you're the

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person I'm paying most attention to who's kind of gone down this rabbit hole. I want to start,

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though, with we've got bombs dropping and missiles flying and the world is just, I mean,

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in absolute chaos. What's your take on, like, as someone abroad, probably a bit removed,

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I assume Australia is not heavily involved in any of these interventions. Like, what's your take on

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on what you're seeing um i i guess first off people killing each other like i don't know if

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it's old men in a room or whatever and they want to move the chess pieces around it just seems so

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absurd that we're sending our youngest people to kill other states youngest people really when the

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issue is not i have a problem with those people or those people have a problem with us it's the

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the people right at the the very top um but as for australia and our intervention fuel's gone up

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a little bit about 50 cents a liter is filling up a couple of jerry cans and the vehicles and stuff

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yesterday um you know we haven't got fuel supply uh fuel reserves strategically for that so i guess

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that's the impact here um obviously we are fairly far removed the the politicians and stuff are

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trying to jump in but i guess my thoughts i just don't want to see people dying michael so can we

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just not get in a room and talk peacefully or whatever i guess that's um you know trying to

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live in a perfect world but that's what i would prefer um as for what's going on personally i've

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been very removed head down focused with ai and um bitcoin i did see those videos the missiles

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flying and things like that and it looks like the dictator supposedly from the little that I've

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removed has been taken out but then what happens? Is there a power vacuum? Is there civil war?

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There's never a good situation for anyone. I don't know if it was better before or it's going to be

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better now or there's going to be this long process but from all the wars and I just finished

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reading a book called chicken hawk about a helicopter pilot and in vietnam and they went

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there and halfway through they started to question the vietcong and they started to realize that the

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vietcong were just the villagers that they're fighting and they're shooting and they're killing

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And, you know, there's a lot of people get caught up in the mix.

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And I guess that's wanting to live in a perfect world.

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If people are willing to go and fight for their country, that's one thing.

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But the casualties and innocent victims and stuff, it's heartbreaking.

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Yeah, I completely agree.

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And it's funny, five years ago, I would have just laughed at you and called you a hippie.

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uh like i think it's taken this i think as i've grown to appreciate what it is that funds wars

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that incentivize incentivizes wars i have a much softer spot for what's really happening and at the

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end of the day it's a bunch of young people going to die for something that's not particularly useful

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and um they spin all kind of all kinds of narratives around it and it just i mean those

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just roll right off my back. I just don't buy a single word of anyone, any side of the political

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aisle at the top explaining why we have to go bomb another country. I think all of the justifications

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are total bullshit. So that's my take. Interesting though, Bitcoin is not ripping with this. I know

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a lot of people, it's the hedge, and it feels like we're kind of close to that point where

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enough people understand that that you would think we'd see Bitcoin doing something in a world of

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uncertainty, but seems like a lot of people still view it as speculative. What's your thought?

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Obviously, I feel like I've been talking a lot more price action just because people are so baffled

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than I usually care to talk about, but I'd love to hear what you think is going on.

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I think ever since we've come off the all-time high from 127 down to 61, I think was the recent

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low. What an opportunity that it's been for anyone. If you're worried about price, just

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buy, stack and chill, get as much as you possibly can into self-custody. Get the Bitcoin way to help

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you protect it if you don't know how. But in regards to it not ripping, I woke up and I haven't

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checked the price. I don't know if I've seen the price in two, three weeks maybe. But I went on X

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and I saw Peter Schiff just having a meltdown over it.

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And it was like, Bitcoin's at 71,000.

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You need to sell everything now.

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It's not going to go any higher.

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And he was like, Bitcoin's at 73,000.

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You need to sell it now.

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It's not going to go any higher.

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So I was like, I opened up the app

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and I've just opened it up here again now.

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And it's up 5.7% in the past 24 hours.

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So I don't know, maybe it is ripping on this news

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and people are getting it.

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But I guess for everyone that truly understands it, if the whole world understood it on this news, we'd be at a million or higher straight away.

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So, yes, it's starting to move and it's starting to go back up there.

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Is it completely undervalued and is the price under $100,000 USD?

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Insane, very much so.

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It's an amazing opportunity.

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but very much it should be higher because of what's going on.

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Why isn't it?

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I think there's a lot of misinformation.

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People are still, they just don't understand.

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Like Bitcoin takes at least 100 hours to be able to get a basic knowledge.

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Everyone's busy.

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People can speed read that by reading the big print by Lawrence Lippard,

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but it still takes work.

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and as fiat inflates more and more and people have to work two, three jobs

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to be able to stay in the same place or there are wars going on.

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People are focused elsewhere, just trying to keep up

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or trying to just have a normal pace of living.

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And they don't feel like they need to study Bitcoin

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because when they turn on the news, oh, Bitcoin's this magic internet money,

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it's a Ponzi scheme or whatever it is,

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It's used for all the nefarious things that Jamie Dimon says.

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None of that's true, but that's the information they're getting

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and they're struggling and they don't have the times.

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So they just don't put in the proof of work.

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And I think that's probably more so why we're not in a million dollars today

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or 10 million or whatever the fiat number is that people want to do.

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I think it's just Bitcoin takes people effort and it's not going to get there.

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And I think we're just still early.

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Bitcoin is still very new and it's very different.

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We've never had a money that's also a technology before, at least in recorded human history.

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Yeah, I agree.

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Like truly the proof of work meme is kind of what it comes down to.

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So you have to be willing to, because so many people in my life understand that Bitcoin is a thing that I have a high conviction in and spend all my day thinking about and talking about and they haven't picked up a book.

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That's crazy.

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It's really just a matter of expending a little bit of energy to zoom in on what it is.

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Okay, so we'll probably get back to Bitcoin.

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I want to get to AI.

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So first of all, I want you to tell a story.

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before i'm going to ask you a little bit about like the mechanics of your setup because i want

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like this is a very self-serving podcast i'll be honest however you uh tweeted about uh maybe a

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couple weeks ago you saved like forty five hundred dollars it's gone up a lot since then with

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software it's about 10 grand now worth in software so what what happened what did you save money on

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how did you do it? Yeah. So obviously, AI is an amazing deflationary technology for a little bit

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of context. So just to be able to set the frame, Jack Dorsey, the founder of Twitter, the creator

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of Twitter originally, is now CEO and founder of Square. He just laid off 40% of his workforce,

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4,000 highly technical coders, computer knowledge workers, and replace them with AI.

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So that's like on a grand scale, and that's happening more and more and more.

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In my own life, what I've done is, in Christmas holidays, I kept seeing this stuff about OpenClaw,

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this AI agent that ran on its own computer and can control its own computer.

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And I was on holiday, and I actually wanted to stop and have a break.

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and it was amazing. I hadn't had a proper, mentally, I hadn't been on holidays for like

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five years. So I was like, I'm not going to get this while I'm on holiday because otherwise I'm

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just going to go down the rabbit hole. But as soon as I got back to the company and back into it,

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I went out and bought a Mac mini, downloaded and installed OpenClaw on it, set it up.

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Now, you don't necessarily need a Mac mini. I just wanted to give it a sandbox space. And I

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I think this is the most important for anyone playing around with AI and OpenClaw.

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It's incredibly powerful technology.

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It can take full control of your computer, access everything.

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So what that means is give it its own device.

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Don't put it on anything that touches Bitcoin.

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If you do anything, say on your personal computer, Bitcoin related, don't also install OpenClaw or any AI tool that can take control

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and look through your folders and everything like that.

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I think just caution it.

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But anyway, got that, installed it, set it up,

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and then started like really feeding it a lot of information

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on who I am, what I do.

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So I gave it 90 of my YouTube transcripts, 30 gig worth of X data,

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a whole lot of company emails and all our company content

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of what we're doing with our online training business.

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and then I got to a point where I needed to fill a contract

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and with the course at the moment we hosted on our WordPress website

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and our own LMS, the learning management system,

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the organizations wanted to embed the course

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onto their own learning management system.

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It just needs to be put into a certain file structure,

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a SCORM file, pretty easy to be able to do,

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But that software to be able to convert how our course was into that SCORM was about $2,999.

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So that was the first $3,000 saving straight away.

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I got my OpenClaw agent to be able to code and build an app for myself that could do that.

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So that's the first subscription or software package that I didn't need.

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The second thing is we need licensing around it.

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So user limits for this particular organization, just under 1,000 people for 12-month access.

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To be able to do that and actually make it happen was about another $1,500 worth of software for that functionality.

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A couple of prompts and then I built that on top of it and to the course builder, the packager, et cetera.

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and then the other savings coming from it.

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So I built all that.

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It did it.

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I tested it.

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It was incredible.

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And then I really wanted to increase the quality of the output

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of how the SCORM looks and what it can do

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and the functions and features.

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So I just started working with it and Googling the best features

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that you can use within SCORM files and packages

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for online courses and stuff and then just recreated those

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and built those into the app,

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which would have been about another $6,000 of either plugins

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or to be able to pay for somebody to be able to code and stuff.

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And obviously, I've got no coding experience or anything like that.

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But intrinsically, I knew exactly what I needed to achieve

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and how to achieve it.

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And I'd been looking at all the other products and software

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that was out there in the market.

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And I just got the AI to recreate and refine it, for example.

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and so that's just like one small thing it's built like little apps instead of a task taking

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five minutes you open it you double click and it fires off that automation um for for those as well

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but like as for cost savings someone else with an open claw like you're not going to get your ai to

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go out and build a course package or whatever it's you you don't need that within your organization

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But the point of it is I did and I would have had to have paid for it regardless.

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I probably wouldn't have paid for all those extra features like the $5,000, $6,000 on top, but I would have paid for the $4,500.

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I had to have that capability.

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I'd just build it and I can make as many courses as I want so I don't need to worry about paying more in higher tiers.

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If you have more people, like over 1,000 people going through the course and they charge you more per person.

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Etc So they really capture it And I guess the point is we can all create whatever it is we need specific to our company our business our workflows whatever it is personalized to us and then we can

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keep improving on it and it can build it with our context knowing who we are what we do and how we

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need to be able to use it wild so it's like a magic box man it's like a little genie no i i

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believe you man so what is the what percentage of this work is done locally versus are you have a

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bunch of api calls going out are you paying a bunch of money to get this done in order to access other

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models like i i'm not fully aware of like a mechanic like the setup yeah 100 so just recently

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this week so aim is so so so quick at the moment but just this week um quen 3.5 has come out with a

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local model that runs on the mac mini it's about as powerful as what chat gpt 4.0 was like running

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locally free forever it's yours it's amazing to be able to do that build out and everything like

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that that's not powerful enough to be able to use so it is using api and calls i've got a couple

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chat gpt anthropic for a little bit it's been issues with the open claw doing it they don't

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really like it so that's not really mainly in use and then kimmy which is a chinese model

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it's super capable it's super cheap the thing about it being as chinese is you don't know where

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your information your data is going so being very selective with when that agent that's connected

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to Kimmy what he's processing is he's just running the task and then pushing things into the background

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and also being aware that some things can run locally they are very slow and they sort of need

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to happen overnight and you just come back to something ready instead of waiting on it but

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having like gpt 4.0 level local now is absolutely incredible if we had this last year we're like

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oh my god the the future's here now that we've got gpt 5.3 or whatever we're like oh that's a

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little bit slow you know like we get used to it if your computer browser doesn't load the page

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instantly and the video doesn't come or whatever you're like what's wrong with this thing um but

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when we're kids downloading from LimeWire or whatever like that.

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It could take hours to download a MP3, for example.

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But that's the setup at the moment.

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There's Quinn running locally and the main models are running Kimi

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and OpenAI with the codex for the coding and for the app building.

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So can you just, like through Telegram, ping your bot?

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You named it Lindy, is that right?

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I called him Charles Lindbergh after the great aviator.

223
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And Charles's nickname was Lindy, yes.

224
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Okay, so could you ping Lindy right now and say, go build me a website?

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Yes.

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And just describe here.

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And then so it's something like that.

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Like you want to build like a quick informational marketing website or something.

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Is that the kind of thing that's low enough processing requirements?

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It can do that locally?

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does it like does it can you go purchase a domain name on your behalf it could if you gave it a

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credit card for sure or they um organize say again have you given it access to any sort of financial

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no not yet process no no yeah at the moment is very much sandboxed and it's just building things

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in parallel on its own thing you know when i need to get the course i'll bring it in there

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or marketing material.

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One thing which is pretty incredible, Michael,

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is gave it a whole lot of like off your website,

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all information about the course, everything that's happening,

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and said, hey, like I want a 45-second animation.

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Can you make one?

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And then it just like pulls this thing up on the computer.

242
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I'd need to look at the name of the program.

243
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And it just makes this like incredible graphic animation

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that goes through them like oh can you add sound to it it's like i don't have any access to sound

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go here or here so i just downloaded the the sound file it added that in and then exported it all

246
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for me and at the start of it there's on two two of the slides out of seven of the slides and the

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slides were all animated it um some of the wording wasn't quite right or it was like bunched up and

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things like that and you just speak into your phone just saying on slide one can you create a

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little bit of separation between the two words and then on slide five can you like remove that

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last line and do this and it's like yep done and then i'll export it again you've got like another

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version um so that's like one thing that's just absolutely incredible you just talk to it and it

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can do whatever it can make powerpoints and images and graphics as for websites it's built us

253
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a whole dashboard website everything like that just from a couple of prompts and then

254
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what it spits you out first off is like absolutely amazing and like a minute two minutes or whatever

255
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it builds and you're like holy cow it's something that would take me 10 20 hours to be able to get

256
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to like that that level of looking nice and functionality and there'll be like a couple of

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little quirks and stuff that you want to change, you'll be able to refine or things won't work and

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they won't lead you to the next page where you need to be. And you just talk to it like a human

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and be like, hey, can you fix this? It's not working. I'd like that button to be a little

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bit brighter or can you bring the opacity? Whatever it is, whatever you can imagine,

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you just talk to it and I'll figure it out and I'll change it. And then another two minutes

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later, it's done. It's live. So you spend four minutes instead of like 20 hours doing

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doing whatever it is. So not a lot of babysitting. So you could, for example,

264
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say, hey, let's say you wanted to give it access to a debit card. So you could just,

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you auto transfer a hundred bucks a month or a Bitcoin wallet. You auto transfer a number of

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sats per month or whatever. You could tell it, hey, you have a $100 monthly budget and you can,

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you know you can subscribe to tools api calls whatever you need to do to get the tasks done

268
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and then just ping me if you need an extra 50 or whatever and it can facilitate it can do that it

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can do the account creation it can do download any tools it needs it can figure out those tools

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because obviously it has access to all of the support pages youtube video whatever it needs

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to do to figure out how to do this stuff it's if it's not already baked in and it and it's then

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learning those skills like it's refining its ability to serve you in those capacities is that

273
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do i have that right yeah yeah bang on and i guess specifically to um agents like open claw

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is to backtrack a little bit yes and put a pin in that with the ai agents like chat gpt for example

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you like i've used it very intensively um but it like forget context over time and start to just

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not remember previous conversations that you've had with it by giving open claw its own mac mini

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its own hard drive space it saves all these different files and you can give it a soul so

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like its personality which is lindy the great aviator and to be able to help in specific areas

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of the business.

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But then you can give it different skills in those folders.

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So one of those skills could be here's like your credit card number

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to be able to access it.

283
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It's got this much.

284
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When it runs out, ping me, let me know.

285
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But the skill, one of its skills is that it has access

286
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to that credit card.

287
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One of the other skills is that when you ask it to do something,

288
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it'll go out and it'll choose whatever apis that it needs to do and then it'll use the skill of

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paying with that credit card to be able to do it so you're like building out and you're training it

290
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so it's like a i guess the best way to explain it is like a junior employee they've they've got a

291
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brain they can think they've passed school you know university or whatever so they're clever enough

292
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:41,280
but they've never worked in your organization before they don't know your workflows your work

293
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process whatever is specific to you so you need to train them you need to give them the standard

294
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operating procedures and then build out those workflows and those automations and at the start

295
00:24:51,780 --> 00:24:57,360
it's not plug and play and it's not easy and there's still updates and I was helping somebody

296
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:02,580
set up OpenClaw just yesterday and because of these new updates it wasn't taking control over

297
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this whole computer the computer wasn't giving it any access at all so i was like a dumb fucking

298
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brick at the moment you know and that took us two hours and we couldn't quite get it

299
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so it's not like you can just go out buy mac mini download it and then be like hey i'm gonna make

300
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ten thousand dollars in software or i'm gonna give it a thousand dollars and it's gonna go

301
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out and trade it into a million dollars and people are doing these things with these ais and i i did

302
00:25:30,860 --> 00:25:36,100
it with the software and different workflows and things like that other people have told their

303
00:25:36,100 --> 00:25:43,340
open claw agent like here's a thousand dollars if like once you lose it you're dead so like make

304
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money and then it'll go out and make money people are getting their ai to um scrape websites and

305
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:57,180
this is this is the cynicist side of things but it's just to give a good example scrape websites

306
00:25:57,180 --> 00:26:02,100
and then send out like 50,000 fraudulent invoices to companies

307
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and just hoping that they won't look, accounts payable won't look,

308
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and they'll just pay it.

309
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And they reckon about 1% to 2% of companies will just pay it.

310
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And so they've made like a million dollars or whatever from doing that.

311
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But the point is like it can be powerful and it can do whatever it is

312
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and it can make money in positive ways, negative ways.

313
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it can save you money i think more importantly it's about learning the tools and saving yourself

314
00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:35,380
time and tinkering because overall this is the worst it's ever going to be it's only going to

315
00:26:35,380 --> 00:26:39,200
get better and better and better and better and better and to be able to have like quen running

316
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:48,040
locally which was as powerful as gpt 4.0 like on a a thousand dollars australian a 600 machine

317
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:54,780
that's that's pretty mind-blowing but all of these things are not going to just you're not going to

318
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download OpenClaw and then it's just going to do it.

319
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You have to build it into it and you have to teach and you have to train

320
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and then you need to stack those skills up.

321
00:27:04,060 --> 00:27:04,580
Okay.

322
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,100
What are your favorite sort of plugins that you've identified?

323
00:27:09,380 --> 00:27:13,560
Like what's been most useful for you personally that, you know,

324
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,180
a local LLM isn't going to get you?

325
00:27:16,300 --> 00:27:21,060
Is it like image generation that maybe you need like more powerful tools?

326
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:23,300
Is it, you know, video?

327
00:27:23,300 --> 00:27:25,860
like what in particular has been helpful for you?

328
00:27:26,740 --> 00:27:32,480
Obviously, building out that software package is the most editing documents

329
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:38,140
and putting like the initial draft together in various company documents and stuff.

330
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,960
It sounds very, very boring, but to be able to go through and to be able to format it

331
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and our language, our style, our definitions in a very like nuanced focus way

332
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:49,900
and then to be able to format it.

333
00:27:49,900 --> 00:27:56,820
so it looks like a really nice like pdf type document and then i just need to go through and

334
00:27:56,820 --> 00:28:03,880
just change a couple of things so instead of that job i don't know taking four hours maybe

335
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:12,380
or like even for um my assistant to spend two or three hours on it then for me to spend another

336
00:28:12,380 --> 00:28:18,660
two or three hours on it at the initial drafts done in a minute two minutes or whatever and then

337
00:28:18,660 --> 00:28:25,320
i can go through in like 15 20 minutes for that sort of final edit polish or whatever and then

338
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:30,840
it's good to go because it it's got all the past documents everything like that so it knows the

339
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:37,200
style and then it'll lay it out how we want it it sounds boring or not revolutionary um

340
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:44,740
but it's that's pretty powerful yeah imagine over the course of a week the like those little time

341
00:28:44,740 --> 00:28:50,540
saving like i'm thinking right now you know every day we've got six segments going out on our youtube

342
00:28:50,540 --> 00:28:56,240
channel every week and i'm manually typing descriptions that you know like that that kind

343
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:04,500
of stuff based on transcript summaries and that so here's one for you yeah drop the my youtube video

344
00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:10,420
into a dropbox file it'll go in there it gets sorry into a google drive folder which it's got

345
00:29:10,420 --> 00:29:12,740
So I gave it its own Gmail account.

346
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:23,260
So it's got its own email, which obviously comes with like that Google suite of Drive, not Dropbox, Google Drive.

347
00:29:23,380 --> 00:29:31,940
So I dropped my video into that and then it'll go through and get the subagent to pull out the transcripts and then it'll go through the transcripts and everything like that.

348
00:29:31,940 --> 00:29:36,420
It'll create the initial title, the description, the tags that need to do it,

349
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and then also like a draft post to be able to share on top of that.

350
00:29:41,020 --> 00:29:44,920
The next stage of building this out is to get it to go through

351
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,800
and then cut out six shorts out of each video as well,

352
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,180
and then to automate the distribution onto all the platforms,

353
00:29:51,380 --> 00:29:57,540
YouTube, Fountain, X, TikTok, Instagram for the shorts as well.

354
00:29:57,540 --> 00:30:03,340
It's just the time that it takes to be able to set it up.

355
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:13,560
You want to put a weekend aside, I guess, to get like a workflow or not even a weekend, a couple of hours on a Saturday to be able to put that into a place.

356
00:30:14,460 --> 00:30:21,600
So does Lindy for you, it sounds like it has access to the administrative functions of your YouTube channel.

357
00:30:22,140 --> 00:30:24,660
At the moment, it's not posting on there.

358
00:30:24,660 --> 00:30:29,480
it's just giving me that information in a document i'll edit it and then i'll copy and

359
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:36,600
paste it over okay one thing with this and then getting better and better with their security and

360
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:41,960
it's coming out and it's almost industry grade level of security but i'm still very specific

361
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:47,340
to sandbox it it's its own email it's not connected to my email when i've got podcasts

362
00:30:47,340 --> 00:30:55,600
and stuff, I will forward the invite to the OpenClaw email so that it knows

363
00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:00,640
and they'll ping me to say, hey, Sean, you've got a video with Michael Jordan

364
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,940
at 9.30, your time that's coming up in 5, 10 minutes.

365
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,800
So I will do that.

366
00:31:08,180 --> 00:31:12,140
I guess one of the other things when it comes to AI,

367
00:31:12,580 --> 00:31:16,560
and I've reiterated a couple of times, it's not plug and play,

368
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:23,880
but this is the worst that it's ever going to be and for me my open claw has been

369
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:30,180
up the whole time or with very little um downtime and i haven't had any issues

370
00:31:30,180 --> 00:31:43,000
i haven done the very latest update and someone had done the very latest update and then uninstall and get OpenClaw to start working it hasn gone as smoothly this time

371
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,060
So there's a little bit of troubleshooting and stuff to be able to play around with it.

372
00:31:47,180 --> 00:31:57,000
So I guess my message is for everyone with AI and these tools is have patience with it,

373
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:02,560
learn learn to do it but like put in the time it's like bitcoin you're not going to get it

374
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:07,000
straight away and it's not going to create you a million dollar business straight away

375
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:13,840
but ai will make you a million dollar business if you put the work in you use it like source

376
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:24,120
trust me bro it happened it's incredible but it's not i think the hardest thing michael is we see

377
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:29,760
all these videos and stuff and I'll create the software from a couple of prompts and it works

378
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:35,500
just like that and the websites and the documents and everything that I need it it's just happening

379
00:32:35,500 --> 00:32:44,180
but that came from using AI every day since like 2022 and then the first week that I got open claw

380
00:32:44,180 --> 00:32:49,680
is I had five hours sleep in three days for example and I don't encourage everyone for that

381
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:55,560
but it's just there's no get rich quick scheme in the world or whatever.

382
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,300
Things aren't just going to be handed to you and here's a magic box,

383
00:32:59,380 --> 00:33:01,820
you plug in the Mac, you're going to make all this money,

384
00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:03,600
it's going to save you all this time or whatever.

385
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,000
No, at the start, it's going to cost you time, it's going to cost you energy,

386
00:33:07,100 --> 00:33:09,560
it's going to cost you your awareness late nights

387
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,380
and you have to put in the proof of work.

388
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,340
But then once you do that, it compounds and then it's exponential

389
00:33:16,340 --> 00:33:24,400
And then it's very easy just to be able to say, hey, I need a document related to this.

390
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,000
Now you get the document back, please email it to me.

391
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:28,240
Cool.

392
00:33:28,340 --> 00:33:31,720
Can you make an animation to be able to go along with this?

393
00:33:31,940 --> 00:33:35,660
We want to put that out on LinkedIn or can you make a LinkedIn carousel, for example?

394
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:36,640
And it can do all that.

395
00:33:36,740 --> 00:33:39,440
It can email and you just copy and paste and put it over.

396
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:47,040
but I guess the message is for people that already have a business where you've got systems

397
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:54,120
or you've got processes in place that just waste a lot of time you can start to automate those out

398
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:59,400
instead of just having the human doing all the computer input it's like AI human check AI goes

399
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:07,280
human verified accepted great and then you move on to the next task this is amazing I can't wait

400
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:13,320
to get started. I'm waiting for my Mac mini to come. So one question for you, what is, I've heard,

401
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:19,800
you've been the person who I've been following on this journey, who is most excited, optimistic,

402
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,260
everything I've seen from you is like, guys, this is, this will change your life and the way that

403
00:34:24,260 --> 00:34:29,140
you work and all of these things. And then I've heard some people who are like, it's going to cost

404
00:34:29,140 --> 00:34:34,640
you thousands of dollars, you know, in API calls. It's like the cost is not going to be worth it,

405
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:39,240
Or maybe it would be worth it, but I don't have $5,000 or $10,000 to spend.

406
00:34:40,020 --> 00:34:42,520
Is that just specific to what you want to do?

407
00:34:42,660 --> 00:34:47,640
Obviously, the more processing intensive, I think the more expensive it's going to be.

408
00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:52,100
But for the average person who's just doing the kind of tasks you're describing here,

409
00:34:52,620 --> 00:34:56,720
it sounds to me like you're not spending thousands of dollars a month to operate this.

410
00:34:56,860 --> 00:34:57,600
Is that fair?

411
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,840
No, it's cheap as chips.

412
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:09,260
And where the cost comes down to is what, like, LLM are you using?

413
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,860
And the best LLM to be able to use was Anthropic.

414
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:19,880
It was Claude and people were connecting their $200 a month subscriptions

415
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,320
through OAuth authentication, so just their subscription to it.

416
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,380
Now, Anthropic clamped down on that and was like, absolutely not.

417
00:35:28,380 --> 00:35:29,180
You're not doing that.

418
00:35:29,180 --> 00:35:31,660
you need to use that API call.

419
00:35:32,860 --> 00:35:36,880
And API calls can get very expensive to be able to do it.

420
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,180
So that's where people were spending a hell of a lot of money.

421
00:35:40,300 --> 00:35:42,240
And because it's remembering everything

422
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:46,200
and it's putting a lot of context into each window

423
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,940
with all its memories specific to you or that conversation,

424
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:51,880
it's costing you a lot of tokens.

425
00:35:54,140 --> 00:35:58,000
Obviously, OpenAI has paid for PETA.

426
00:35:59,180 --> 00:36:02,140
I don't know exactly what the deal was.

427
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,060
OpenClaw, so Peter's the founder of OpenClaw.

428
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:13,140
OpenClaw's stayed open source and OpenAI hasn't bought it,

429
00:36:13,180 --> 00:36:14,800
but they're very much supporting it.

430
00:36:15,100 --> 00:36:20,520
So where I'm getting is with OpenAI, which is like the chat GPT ecosystem,

431
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,580
you can use your subscription, like your pro subscription,

432
00:36:23,780 --> 00:36:27,540
which is what, like $49 a month or something like that.

433
00:36:27,540 --> 00:36:28,200
I don't know.

434
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,660
I've got two pro subscriptions, but we just connected one of those with it.

435
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:38,500
And that's, you know, for the coding, the building with GPD Codex,

436
00:36:38,620 --> 00:36:41,140
it uses that and it's not costing any more.

437
00:36:42,140 --> 00:36:45,480
If you were to connect it to the API instead of a subscription,

438
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,640
yes, it would cost you a little bit more, not as much as Anthropic

439
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:54,120
for just the thinking and the communicating and for the areas

440
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,520
where you're not worried about your information going to China.

441
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:05,940
kimmy k 2.5 is like 30 or 29 or something like that so those two subscriptions was 80 australian

442
00:37:05,940 --> 00:37:11,620
like even if it's 100 bucks us for for what it can build like who cares yeah yeah yes you'll be

443
00:37:11,620 --> 00:37:18,140
able to do it see and then if you need more sorry just quickly just answer the rest of it if you

444
00:37:18,140 --> 00:37:22,480
need more capacity or whatever and you're like building out the craziest things and you need

445
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,100
philanthropic API.

446
00:37:24,500 --> 00:37:30,200
Just get it to build something initially with those cheaper subscriptions that gives you

447
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,500
enough value or enough time back to be able to pay for the higher API calls.

448
00:37:34,620 --> 00:37:40,660
Don't just like throw everything all at once, like build it and stack it up slowly.

449
00:37:40,660 --> 00:37:47,680
Like any endeavor wants to be cashflow positive as soon as possible.

450
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,140
Otherwise, you can't keep doing what you're doing if you've got something that provides

451
00:37:51,140 --> 00:37:58,940
value there's no point like going broke before you even start gosh yeah i mean that makes sense

452
00:37:58,940 --> 00:38:07,100
and i assume too you can automate this to learn sort of the workflow of hey build cheaply you know

453
00:38:07,100 --> 00:38:16,540
inexpensively quickly and then like be thoughtful so to speak artificially thoughtful as to when we

454
00:38:16,540 --> 00:38:22,200
go to more like of a production level environment, we're willing to pay more. It's going to kind of

455
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:28,660
figure that out, build you like a rougher maybe product. And then, and then you, you sort of,

456
00:38:28,740 --> 00:38:33,580
you sort of work your way to the more expensive models. If you even need to get there, I bet for

457
00:38:33,580 --> 00:38:38,400
most people, most of the time they get with these subscriptions, you know, that, you know, they,

458
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:43,220
they pay a hundred bucks a month for a couple of subscriptions in total, and it'll do what they

459
00:38:43,220 --> 00:38:52,500
needed to do is that is that probably absolutely like even just open ai like just that one

460
00:38:52,500 --> 00:39:01,060
subscription for 99 of people 95 of people would be fine or kimmy if you don't worry about your

461
00:39:01,060 --> 00:39:06,700
information or your selective with when you're interacting with that agent going to kimmy if

462
00:39:06,700 --> 00:39:12,240
you're not worried about it like send it there but i think even more to your point apple's just

463
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:21,040
announced their m5 macbook and stuff they're going to come out with a m5 mac mini um you know later

464
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:29,760
this year the capacity of the llms locally that it'll be able to run will be absolutely insane

465
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:38,080
but two weeks ago i had another um local llm the name will come to me in a sec and it was like

466
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:43,100
Like, it was like when I started using ChatGPT in 2022.

467
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,640
Like, it was there, but it was, like, so slow with it.

468
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,060
And you're like, this is just absolutely useless.

469
00:39:51,060 --> 00:39:59,300
But then two days ago when QAN 3.5 came out, backing up a little bit.

470
00:39:59,620 --> 00:40:04,860
So two weeks ago when that first AI local, I installed it and I was like, oh, that's cool.

471
00:40:04,980 --> 00:40:07,800
Like, it works, but it's super slow and it's going to drive me crazy.

472
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:16,060
But I just, I was saying to people, just all we need to do is wait four to six weeks and there'll be something like better and we'll have a new step change.

473
00:40:16,540 --> 00:40:21,780
Two weeks later, we're going to like GPT 4.0 level straight away locally.

474
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,480
Like, let alone the next four to six weeks, what's going to happen in the next two weeks?

475
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,400
You know, like every single day, these models are getting smaller, more powerful.

476
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:37,040
and then as the hardware comes out and Apple gets that M5 chip onto the market,

477
00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:38,660
it's going to be insane.

478
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:43,560
I think in the next, I don't even think it's going to be 12 months, Michael,

479
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:48,740
but most people will be able to get away with running everything locally,

480
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:51,340
maybe even on like a Mac mini level.

481
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,140
If it's not a Mac mini level, go out and buy an Apple studio,

482
00:40:55,780 --> 00:40:58,560
like fully, fully spec'd out at the moment, like everything,

483
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:06,700
the biggest hard drives everything in australia it's like 27 000 so that's maybe 18 20 000 us

484
00:41:06,700 --> 00:41:12,780
people like i'm not spending 20 000 on a computer if that can computer can replace

485
00:41:12,780 --> 00:41:19,160
just just one staff member but what happens if it replaces four or five staff members or you've got

486
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:26,400
say five staff members and they're using this local ai that costs you 20 000 but now they're five

487
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,060
times more productive, 10 times more productive.

488
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:37,120
Like the cost of that is like it's non-existent to a business owner

489
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:41,520
or it should be and it should be something that they should budget for

490
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,340
and start to be able to plan for.

491
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:48,180
And I guess the point with OpenClaw and instance on the Mac Mini now is,

492
00:41:48,180 --> 00:41:52,920
yes, it works, it's a little bit finicky and you need to tinker with it.

493
00:41:53,260 --> 00:41:55,580
But you want to learn all these things and you want to learn

494
00:41:55,580 --> 00:42:03,120
just how to use it so that when we get to the level where you can run everything locally as

495
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:08,940
powerful as like the best models that we have today you want to be prepared for that because

496
00:42:08,940 --> 00:42:14,000
they're also not going to be plug and play and you want them to be specific to to your situation

497
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,860
it's pretty exciting so you're saying you would rather be in a place where you've been training

498
00:42:18,860 --> 00:42:22,760
you've been training Lindy on a Mac Mini

499
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,800
and as the technology advances

500
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:30,620
it will be something that you can

501
00:42:30,620 --> 00:42:34,340
that's sufficiently compact that you can put it onto

502
00:42:34,340 --> 00:42:38,460
like a Mac Studio. But you're basically taking all of its

503
00:42:38,460 --> 00:42:42,660
learning that's done with you onto a more powerful machine in the future

504
00:42:42,660 --> 00:42:46,460
with better LLMs that can run more localized

505
00:42:46,460 --> 00:42:53,400
and it's you're not starting from scratch when these new machines come out like you you have

506
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,720
you know years of data that you've been feeding it and you're able to take advantage of the new

507
00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:07,500
technology much more quickly that's right so for to relate this not to ai but say with my

508
00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:14,240
admin assistant originally when she first came on i'd show her a task on the computer and we'd get

509
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:20,880
on Zoom and we'd record it. So I'd show her the task, exactly how to do it. She'd watch the video

510
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:25,340
and she'd download the transcript and then she'd write an SOP, a standard operating procedure

511
00:43:25,340 --> 00:43:33,040
on how to do every single task. She would send me that SOP, I'd check it, we'd get on another call

512
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:39,100
and then I'd read it out to her and then she'd follow it step by step by step by step, gets the

513
00:43:39,100 --> 00:43:43,720
end. If the result was great, great. That's the SOP, that's the workflow, that's the structure,

514
00:43:43,720 --> 00:43:46,580
that we're going to follow, do this every single time.

515
00:43:47,020 --> 00:43:50,580
If I was reading it out one by one, she was following

516
00:43:50,580 --> 00:43:52,860
and she didn't get the answer, then all we needed to do

517
00:43:52,860 --> 00:43:54,760
was change that SOP.

518
00:43:55,220 --> 00:43:58,520
For each SOP, you're probably putting in like four to six hours

519
00:43:58,520 --> 00:43:59,800
for that.

520
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,520
And that's like a lot of time where maybe that task originally

521
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,440
would take half an hour, 40 minutes, an hour or whatever.

522
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:12,440
So it's taking 600% longer originally, but you just do it once,

523
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:17,580
you do it properly then that standard operating procedure is in place the same with the agents

524
00:44:17,580 --> 00:44:24,160
now is when you're building out their workflows their sops the frameworks they take time they

525
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:31,520
take effort and stuff so do you want to wait until ai is where it can run and do absolutely everything

526
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:38,100
are you going to wait till that moment where it's super freaking capable it's super capable now

527
00:44:38,100 --> 00:44:45,660
but you're starting from scratch so you've got like this amazing tool it's like a bmw and you've

528
00:44:45,660 --> 00:44:49,840
got the learner key or whatever so it's giving you 10 horsepower instead of a thousand horsepower

529
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:56,000
or do you want to start tinkering now learning the systems learning how to build the skills the

530
00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:02,900
workflows the frameworks sops and then when it's ready either copy and paste them over or

531
00:45:02,900 --> 00:45:09,380
your agent can do all that for you but everything's already automated and you know

532
00:45:09,380 --> 00:45:15,080
how that automation has come together so on the more powerful models it can then take it up to

533
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:23,460
the next step and then you can be up here instead of starting from scratch in the future um i just

534
00:45:23,460 --> 00:45:28,340
don't think anyone not paying attention they're just going to get left behind like they don't have

535
00:45:28,340 --> 00:45:35,760
have time unfortunately not not to play around and pay for it because the people paying attention now

536
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:43,080
compared to the people waiting for for the next local wham bam whiz local model or whatever

537
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:47,320
they're just going to be so far behind and they're never ever going to catch up it's exponential

538
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:52,880
so it's a it's a bit like bitcoin you know you you sort of get ai at the price you deserve

539
00:45:52,880 --> 00:46:00,640
100 yeah so what do you think uh and i want to get to bitcoin and ai and there's been a lot of

540
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:05,260
chatter about this but i i want to hear your thoughts on where you think we're headed so i

541
00:46:05,260 --> 00:46:13,440
my echo chamber sort of uh i think aligns with you and like tony is so excited i mean i know you

542
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:20,120
know and love tony he's so excited about when this ai is transplanted into human-like droids

543
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,820
that can do anything and everything for you.

544
00:46:23,060 --> 00:46:24,000
Like he thinks that is like,

545
00:46:24,180 --> 00:46:25,640
to me that's like dystopian,

546
00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:27,380
but I understand that's probably where we're headed.

547
00:46:27,620 --> 00:46:29,320
For him, he's just, he's pumped.

548
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:30,100
So I have an idea.

549
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:31,480
Do you think, but then,

550
00:46:31,540 --> 00:46:33,860
oh, but then I stepped outside of my echo chamber recently,

551
00:46:33,860 --> 00:46:34,700
a couple of weeks ago,

552
00:46:34,700 --> 00:46:37,460
was talking to a friend of mine and he's,

553
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,880
I wouldn't say he's a normie.

554
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:44,120
He's awakened to a lot of the things we talk about.

555
00:46:44,220 --> 00:46:45,520
He's not a Bitcoiner though,

556
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:50,100
but he thinks that the AI thing is way overblown.

557
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,180
It's not like, yes, they'll automate some things.

558
00:46:54,260 --> 00:46:56,860
There'll be some leaps forward with AI.

559
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,380
But at the end of the day, you need consumers who have jobs in order to pay for the things

560
00:47:01,380 --> 00:47:02,500
that AI can provide.

561
00:47:02,700 --> 00:47:08,380
And so it's going to eat itself and die if there isn't something for humans to do.

562
00:47:08,980 --> 00:47:14,580
I would love to hear your thesis on where you think the AI economy is taking us.

563
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:16,120
Yep.

564
00:47:17,780 --> 00:47:28,700
I dive into that But imagine if he wrong and he takes that opportunity I just not going to play out

565
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,280
I'm not going to learn AI and I'm not going to use it.

566
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:39,200
if he's wrong in his thesis or it's like when people say bitcoin's never going to work it's

567
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:47,260
a failed experiment or whatever if they're wrong and bitcoin is apex predator or money and ai is

568
00:47:47,260 --> 00:47:53,740
here to stay and you totally ignore them then you're shooting yourself in the foot whereas the

569
00:47:53,740 --> 00:47:58,960
worst case situation maybe you still believe that they're going to fail and maybe they do fail

570
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:00,860
But what's the harm in learning them?

571
00:48:00,940 --> 00:48:01,940
You've learned a new skill.

572
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:03,000
You've paid attention.

573
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:06,840
There's no downside to it.

574
00:48:07,540 --> 00:48:10,880
And it's like, I believe it's an asymmetric bet.

575
00:48:11,460 --> 00:48:12,000
That's right.

576
00:48:12,260 --> 00:48:22,660
Even if you're wrong, your time wasted is not near as much as what is the opportunity cost of not doing it if the AI maxis and the Bitcoin maxis are right.

577
00:48:24,300 --> 00:48:25,560
Yeah, that's right.

578
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,860
But as for, is it overblown?

579
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:39,000
not in my own life like i went from a high school dropout to building a seven figure

580
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:45,640
online company within a couple of months with just talking to ai for four six eight ten hours

581
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:51,060
a day like it was absolutely relentless and it's like the few hours uh the few years leading up to

582
00:48:51,060 --> 00:48:57,280
that that allowed me to condense that into it so is it overblown like fuck no but

583
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:03,240
fuck no it's not how people like oh this thing doesn't make any money like you've got no idea

584
00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:08,440
like ideas flowing or percolating or you've got nothing going on if you can't save five minutes

585
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,880
of your time with like even when you're saying when you're trying to get just the youtube

586
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:18,860
description and everything like that just the first draft and to get it formatted so it looks

587
00:49:18,860 --> 00:49:23,100
good within your youtube description that can save you five minutes and you just chuck it in

588
00:49:23,100 --> 00:49:26,220
and you just edit it super quickly, but it's all in your tone,

589
00:49:26,340 --> 00:49:27,220
your brand, your voice.

590
00:49:27,420 --> 00:49:28,880
It sounds exactly like you.

591
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,520
You just make sure that everything's factual because it can still

592
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,460
hallucinate doing that.

593
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:40,160
But could it all just go away and could it eat itself?

594
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:48,160
Sure, it's possible, but humanity seems to always improve on itself

595
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,880
and like the natural state of the market in the words of the author

596
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:58,360
of the price of tomorrow jeff booth is is deflation and we're going to get better and better and better

597
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:07,920
and because we can run local models even if um like i just don't see how they could possibly go

598
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:15,460
away anymore like we've been given this magic box a genie three three magic wishes that we can ask

599
00:50:15,460 --> 00:50:20,180
over and over and over and over and over and over again and we get those delivered to us

600
00:50:20,180 --> 00:50:26,260
every single time like who in their right minds is going to be like no ai is like going away like

601
00:50:26,260 --> 00:50:33,000
yes it's going to displace a lot of people 40 4 000 people of square gone like what are they

602
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:37,260
going to do hopefully they can leverage ai and they can use it because they've got the skills

603
00:50:37,260 --> 00:50:42,020
they're already peak of their field so they can do something better than i can with doing it but

604
00:50:42,020 --> 00:50:51,100
that playing field stopped i um hope so but then in regards to what what happens that that's when

605
00:50:51,100 --> 00:50:55,460
like universal basic income comes in and people are eating the the bug soup and it will be the

606
00:50:55,460 --> 00:51:01,720
haves and have nots the people with using bitcoin and ai together and the ai agents are going to use

607
00:51:01,720 --> 00:51:06,600
bitcoin they're going to have whatever they want it is like tony yasbeck always says it's like

608
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:13,000
Elysium there will be people in this AI incredible paradise and there'll be people that are just

609
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:20,500
living in hell and I was saying this to Tony on the podcast just before I go down to the beach

610
00:51:20,500 --> 00:51:26,300
every afternoon and in the dunes there's a couple of people sleeping rough and stuff

611
00:51:26,300 --> 00:51:35,400
homeless like that is so sad and it feels sometimes like Elysium I'll come out to this

612
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:41,420
beautiful house with ocean views and everything and we have nice food and like clean clothes and

613
00:51:41,420 --> 00:51:47,460
everything like that nice lawn and just like a lovely environment friends family everything like

614
00:51:47,460 --> 00:51:54,200
that if any anything happened to us a medical appointment or emergency if our dog gets an

615
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:59,580
allergy and she needs three and a half thousand dollar allergy medication true story we can get

616
00:51:59,580 --> 00:52:06,220
it absolutely no problem we don't even question it whereas some people are living under a fucking

617
00:52:06,220 --> 00:52:12,980
canvas sheet on the beach and what's that from like yes they've probably made some bad choices

618
00:52:12,980 --> 00:52:19,240
I've lived rough um from myself who have lived out of a car for a while out of a tent for for a long

619
00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:24,540
time so I I know what it's like and it's definitely the the choices that I was making but it's also

620
00:52:24,540 --> 00:52:30,140
because the money and everything's broken and it's getting worse and worse and worse and we've got

621
00:52:30,140 --> 00:52:37,020
like three or four hundred thousand australians now homeless because the government's just

622
00:52:37,020 --> 00:52:43,900
obliterating the money it's absolutely worthless and so the the point is if you're not saving and

623
00:52:45,420 --> 00:52:51,740
hard money that can't be um effed with that they can't be manipulated in any way obviously price

624
00:52:51,740 --> 00:52:57,140
short term is a different story and you're not paying attention to ai technology that can really

625
00:52:57,140 --> 00:53:04,760
leverage every area of your life um then you get into those type of situations where you can

626
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:09,660
prevent it um but yeah i don't think like in regards to your friend

627
00:53:09,660 --> 00:53:18,580
it'll just split like it'll be like that for for some people but the people with with bitcoin

628
00:53:18,580 --> 00:53:29,080
hard assets you know it's hard in a digital age to say gold will still contain like be as useful

629
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:34,600
as bitcoin it's worked well for 5 000 years like in a local economy and stuff the the gold bugs

630
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:41,600
they're still going to be all right as well i i believe but unless you're holding gold or bitcoin

631
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:48,280
or gold i think people are going to be on struggle street and then as time progresses and the iia

632
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:55,620
agents more and more take up Bitcoin as their medium exchange, then that's going to eat into

633
00:53:55,620 --> 00:54:04,160
that gold market as well. And I was thinking about this last night. There is no way long term,

634
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:09,880
people like look out a little bit, everyone wants hyper Bitcoinization today, like just make it in

635
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:17,600
your own life today. It's not coming tomorrow, but it will come. But over time, the AI agents

636
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:19,280
are only going to accept Bitcoin.

637
00:54:19,460 --> 00:54:21,320
It's backed up by proof of work.

638
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:22,100
It's limited.

639
00:54:22,420 --> 00:54:22,920
It's scarce.

640
00:54:23,020 --> 00:54:23,960
Can't be manipulated.

641
00:54:24,220 --> 00:54:25,500
Can't be confiscated.

642
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,320
There's nobody going to change it in any way

643
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:33,760
and they can take 100% ownership of it.

644
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,080
Whereas what like USDC,

645
00:54:36,260 --> 00:54:38,920
it just gets absolutely taken

646
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:40,780
or the government prints a whole lot of money

647
00:54:40,780 --> 00:54:42,220
and it's worth less

648
00:54:42,220 --> 00:54:43,980
or something like Ethereum

649
00:54:43,980 --> 00:54:46,060
where they changed the rules 300 times

650
00:54:46,060 --> 00:54:47,380
over the last couple of years

651
00:54:47,380 --> 00:54:53,900
or whatever. No, it's going to be Bitcoin. So you probably want to get some Bitcoin and then

652
00:54:53,900 --> 00:55:00,380
learn to use your AI agent and then train it to be able to accept lightning or use lightning on the

653
00:55:00,380 --> 00:55:10,040
402 and exchange things. But it's already happening. AI agents are paying people in Bitcoin to be able

654
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:16,220
to do work. AI agents are hiring humans to go out and do things. They're paying with credit cards,

655
00:55:16,220 --> 00:55:23,200
they're paying and stable coins they're paying in bitcoin like i i don't know go go out and try

656
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,300
build one even if it takes you a year or six months or whatever it's not going to happen overnight

657
00:55:27,300 --> 00:55:32,360
start building one and then give it capacity to connect connect to the lightning network

658
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:38,400
and then go out and do things but still like sandbox the hell out of it slowly don't give

659
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:43,540
it access to your personal information don't connect it to your personal email forward it things

660
00:55:43,540 --> 00:55:46,940
to what it owns and what it controls,

661
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,400
but don't give it like your personal stuff.

662
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:50,820
Not yet.

663
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:51,620
Yeah, yeah.

664
00:55:52,540 --> 00:55:53,200
Man, okay.

665
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:54,960
So Bitcoin and AI,

666
00:55:55,060 --> 00:55:56,300
we've just got a couple minutes here.

667
00:55:56,860 --> 00:56:00,220
Your final thoughts on how Bitcoin gets integrated

668
00:56:00,220 --> 00:56:02,660
because I know a lot of people are saying,

669
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:04,680
and we talked about this on our live stream earlier today,

670
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,040
that if you do like these,

671
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,300
you can sort of model this out

672
00:56:09,300 --> 00:56:13,220
and it looks like the LLMs want Bitcoin broadly.

673
00:56:13,220 --> 00:56:17,800
Almost half of them prefer that over stable coins or obviously fiat.

674
00:56:17,980 --> 00:56:18,780
It's very slow.

675
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,520
Let's ask ChatGPT real quick.

676
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:26,980
Is this an experiment you've done?

677
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:29,120
No, never.

678
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:33,880
Hey, I'm just on a podcast talking with Michael Jordan.

679
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:44,100
And I was just wondering in regards to AI, what type of currency in the future they are going to want to accept?

680
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:49,160
Would it be fiat currency like the US dollar, something like Bitcoin?

681
00:56:49,420 --> 00:56:53,980
Would it be something like XRP or Ethereum?

682
00:56:54,180 --> 00:56:56,380
What would be the AI agent's best pick?

683
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:01,720
Well, I can't speak for AI agents as if they have preferences like people.

684
00:57:01,720 --> 00:57:08,600
But if we're talking about how they might handle transactions in the future, it would probably depend on the systems we humans set up.

685
00:57:09,180 --> 00:57:12,120
AI would likely work with whatever currency is most efficient.

686
00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:13,560
Oh, that's a fucking dead song.

687
00:57:14,460 --> 00:57:16,400
That is Chad J.P.T. for you.

688
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:17,260
It's like a shit.

689
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:17,780
Politically correct.

690
00:57:18,140 --> 00:57:18,380
Yeah.

691
00:57:18,820 --> 00:57:30,020
But I saw a study from the Bitcoin Policy Institute that said they gave these different conversations, like 9,000 conversations across a number of LLMs, I think.

692
00:57:30,020 --> 00:57:35,220
and it was like almost half of them said bitcoin and you've got to think that crock

693
00:57:35,220 --> 00:57:41,160
kimmy but they all say bitcoin yeah anthropic that's the thing is i actually use chat gpt

694
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:48,200
as my litmus test i'll ask it if i ask it a an unpopular historical question i want to see what

695
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:52,960
it says first because it's going to have the most mainstream woke bullshit sort of answer

696
00:57:52,960 --> 00:58:01,100
and if it gives me feedback that seems out of place for it to provide, I tend to assume it's

697
00:58:01,100 --> 00:58:05,400
true. I don't assume it's true, obviously, if it's feed me the same thing that I learned in

698
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:10,860
elementary school, but it's a good start. It's a good diving off point. Okay. Hey, man, I want to

699
00:58:10,860 --> 00:58:14,640
be respectful of your time. I know you're on a tight schedule today. My last question for you,

700
00:58:15,100 --> 00:58:19,980
same one I ask everyone, what is an unpopular opinion that you hold? You get bonus points if

701
00:58:19,980 --> 00:58:34,440
you offend some bitcoiners with it i don't know if it's unpopular but the people leveraging bitcoin

702
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:49,240
in any way are very misguided and i believe they're trying like it's that poor gambling get

703
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:55,560
rich quick mentality and they don't understand bitcoin at all they they're not here for for the

704
00:58:55,560 --> 00:59:00,580
revolution they haven't put in enough proof of work so what what what kind of people are you

705
00:59:00,580 --> 00:59:04,340
are you describing here like what kind of big what kind of bitcoiners

706
00:59:04,340 --> 00:59:11,780
is it well they're not bitcoiners they're like they're shit coining on bitcoin yeah yeah yeah

707
00:59:11,780 --> 00:59:16,420
yeah like they're suit coiners but anyone that wants to get the world's hardest

708
00:59:16,420 --> 00:59:23,840
yes it's the best form of collateral and stuff and for a company to lend you fiat dollars in

709
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:28,460
exchange for your bitcoin best business model in the world like it truly is they've got absolutely

710
00:59:28,460 --> 00:59:36,540
no risk at all but just recently with the last pull down where it came to 61 000 some people

711
00:59:36,540 --> 00:59:41,900
that i thought were incredible bitcoiners that doing amazing things in the space getting close

712
00:59:41,900 --> 00:59:47,560
to getting liquidated, like losing nearly 90% of their Bitcoin stack,

713
00:59:48,140 --> 00:59:49,960
they haven't put in the proof of work.

714
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:51,580
Fucking misguided.

715
00:59:51,580 --> 00:59:54,120
So how to describe them?

716
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,660
Lazy misguided on the nice side.

717
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:04,840
I won't go any worse than that.

718
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:05,200
Okay.

719
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:06,800
No, I think that's a good one.

720
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:09,100
I don't know if that'll offend our audience.

721
01:00:10,100 --> 01:00:10,360
Probably.

722
01:00:10,580 --> 01:00:11,020
If you can imagine.

723
01:00:11,020 --> 01:00:14,300
Most people following you guys get it.

724
01:00:14,380 --> 01:00:15,860
You don't trade Bitcoin.

725
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:17,760
You trade everything else for Bitcoin.

726
01:00:17,900 --> 01:00:22,320
You don't take leverage on something as volatile as Bitcoin in the short term.

727
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:27,160
You just do everything you can to get as much of it and to self-custody.

728
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:27,860
That's it.

729
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:31,260
It's maybe boring, but it shouldn't be exciting.

730
01:00:31,460 --> 01:00:33,340
It's just superior savings technology.

731
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:34,760
And then go out and provide value.

732
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:39,120
Use AI to be able to create value, to be able to get more Bitcoin and just repeat.

733
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:40,780
Beautifully said, my friend.

734
01:00:40,780 --> 01:00:42,140
And Sean, why don't you give people a handoff?

735
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,300
Tell them where they can find you and anything else you want to point them to.

736
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:46,880
Yeah, cool.

737
01:00:47,620 --> 01:00:48,560
I'll give you a link.

738
01:00:48,660 --> 01:00:53,400
But if anyone's interested in learning about AI and Bitcoin over the next year, if you'd

739
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,780
like to book a call and learn more, you can.

740
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:57,200
I'll give Michael the link.

741
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:00,320
But G'day Bitcoin over on YouTube.

742
01:01:00,860 --> 01:01:03,420
It's also my ex-account, SeanClark911.

743
01:01:05,620 --> 01:01:10,140
Incredible podcast, incredible guests, an amazing conversation I had recently with Michael

744
01:01:10,140 --> 01:01:11,960
that's out there for you to check.

745
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:13,940
But just come over and say g'day.

746
01:01:13,940 --> 01:01:18,720
And the final message is what I think is the most important

747
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:22,080
over the next 12 to 36 months to be able to focus on

748
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:25,880
is get an amazing habit stack, build a personal brand,

749
01:01:26,180 --> 01:01:30,180
use AI and save and stack and become sovereign with Bitcoin.

750
01:01:30,300 --> 01:01:31,760
If you can sort out those four things,

751
01:01:31,900 --> 01:01:34,960
you're going to be happy days and we're going to live in Elysium.

752
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:43,080
if not it's um it's gonna be a hard time for for many people and if i'm wrong and you still learn

753
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:48,780
those things do there's no bad side it's all all upside anyway i think that's a great place to

754
01:01:48,780 --> 01:01:52,740
close sean thanks for the time man enjoyed the chat and i look forward to staying in touch

755
01:01:52,740 --> 01:01:58,280
always a pleasure thank you cheers brother and that's a wrap again i hope you enjoyed my

756
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:03,940
conversation with sean this guy is doing amazing things go check out his uh page on x go follow

757
01:02:03,940 --> 01:02:08,760
him. Go check out everything else he's offering. This guy is a world of knowledge and insight.

758
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:13,380
I think everyone should be paying attention to what he is talking about and follow along on his

759
01:02:13,380 --> 01:02:17,740
journey and start taking steps yourself. And of course, if you need help taking your Bitcoin into

760
01:02:17,740 --> 01:02:23,960
proper 100% self-custody, go to thebitcoinway.com slash podcast. You can schedule a free 30-minute

761
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:28,240
consult with a member of our team. We can talk you through proper self-custody, protecting your

762
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:32,400
online privacy, setting up a privacy phone. We have a plan B residency option that is getting

763
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:38,320
extremely popular in Panama. Again, it's the Bitcoin way.com slash podcast. It costs you

764
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:42,700
nothing, just 30 minutes of your time to learn more. If you are enjoying the channel, the show,

765
01:02:42,780 --> 01:02:47,040
you like this episode, do me a huge favor. Give us a like, subscribe, comment, share it with

766
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:51,020
someone who you think might be interested. Anything you can do to help feed the algorithm

767
01:02:51,020 --> 01:02:55,760
and get the word out about Bitcoin, self-custody, self-sovereignty, everything we talk about here

768
01:02:55,760 --> 01:03:01,760
every day. And until next time, stay safe, stay sovereign, and remember the yield on Bitcoin is

769
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:02,120
freedom.