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You guys have been working on Stratom v2 for a while, so clearly it's important to you.

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Why is the majority of the network still not using it?

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HashrateUp. Hardware sales, advisory, hosting, and site brokerage.

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Find new and used ASIC deals through the website and the Telegram channel below.

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Make smarter decisions with HashrateUp.

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All right, everyone. Welcome back to HashrateUp.

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Another week, another episode.

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Before we get into it, I want to quickly share my screen and show you guys when we are recording.

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We're co-recording at 932-377 block height.

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And then one thing I have been loving to look at is the timechaincalendar.com, if you haven't seen this before,

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which tells us that currently hashrate is at 1020 and the average block time is at 10 minutes 32.

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and we're about 54 blocks too slow right now, which is significant.

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If you look at the difficulty over the last couple weeks,

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then something very historically is happening or historically very seldom is happening

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where we have one, two, three difficulty adjustments downward.

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Then this one was slightly up, but to be honest, it was pretty stagnant.

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Then we have another one down, another difficulty adjustment down.

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And then the next one is expected to be minus 5% right now.

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So that's significant as well.

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The impact there, and I want to go a bit longer on this,

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is that if you price the hash price in Bitcoin terms,

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then we're talking about one bump upwards, another bump upwards, another one.

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Then it will stagnate, as I said, another bump upwards,

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and then we're going to get another bump.

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So we're going to be in the sort of 45,000 sets per terahash per day range.

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And then, yeah, I mean, this is historically,

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in historical context, it's nothing.

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But if you sort of look a couple months back,

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then it's actually quite significant.

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But without further ado, let us jump in the interview.

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Today, we're going to talk about Stratum v2.

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and I've been made aware by my lovely guests Pavel and Gabriel

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that a bunch of interviews have been done on Stratum V2 and Stratum V1.

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So if you want to learn about that comparison directly,

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go out there and learn about that somewhere else.

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I have Pavel on.

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He said he's janitor and PM at Stratum V2

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and Gabriel as well, lead maintainer,

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as Stratum V2 is an open-source project.

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Now, first question to you guys.

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You guys have been working on Stratum V2 for a while.

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So clearly it's important to you, right?

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Why is the majority of the network still not using it?

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I don't know who wants to go first, Pavel.

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Maybe you go first.

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I've been working on Stratum V2 for four years now,

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maybe even a little bit more.

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Short answer is that miners are busy.

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They are in a cutthroat business trying to keep machines online,

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trying to find cheaper energy, trying to optimize and tweak setups,

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and they just don't have time to learn about these upgrades.

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Another thing is that maybe we as an open source project and community

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haven't really found the proper way to talk to them about this

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because we approach it from a very technical aspect of all of these improvements

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for a few years while we were developing it.

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And as we became miners ourselves in a way, got connected to miners,

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We understood how miners think, what do they want.

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I can talk about myself.

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I come from the payment processing BTC-based server.

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So I came into mining completely new.

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It took me a couple of years to understand the mind of a miner

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and what is it really important for them.

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So I think short answer is like education hasn't been maybe the best on our end

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and miners are just busy.

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That's, I think, my take on it.

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Gabriel, anything to add there?

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No, I completely agree with all the points.

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but mate i would just add that on top of what he said it's always difficult like to change

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something which is at the core of like a business like bitcoin mining so like upgrading the the

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core protocol which is currently used by anyone is like it takes a lot of time okay especially for

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for big companies to take decisions okay maybe maybe explain that quickly because i don't

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understand that why why would the core protocol have to be upgraded explain that context

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so basically nowadays like 99 of the asset of the global bitcoin network is currently using

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a protocol which is called just stratum we're gonna call it stratum v1 for now

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which is basically allowing all the machines spread all over the world to be connected to

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some central points, which are the pool servers, so that the lack of finding a block is going to

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be shared among different participants in the pool. And in order to do that, the machines and

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the pool servers, which are hosted somewhere else, they need to communicate in a proper way.

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And nowadays, they are using this protocol, as I mentioned, Stratum v1. And so it means that all

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the machines they know the stratum v1 language in a way to be able to communicate with the pool

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servers and the pool servers they do the same so they they have the implementation there which is

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based on stratum v1 protocol so even though switching to sv2 doesn't require like firmware

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upgrades on miners end maybe we're gonna dive deeper into this detail later it means that

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on the pool level, the pool servers, they need to be upgraded to use this new protocol,

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which is Sv2, Strading V2.

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So that's what I was referring to.

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Yeah, makes sense.

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I mean, and then we're quickly talking about financial gains, right?

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Before incentives and game theory and anything that makes Bitcoin work at its core, right?

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Before we get there, though, is there anybody that loses power or anybody that loses

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financial gain if stratum v2 were to be widely adopted tomorrow like who loses out on that trade

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so i don't think anybody loses like stratum v2 is an upgrade of a mining protocol that has been

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used since 2011 since 2011 mining industry evolved a lot and we are still using a protocol which was

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made from the very like 10 years ago completely unoptimized completely insecure so like i don't

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think anybody would lose from adopting a more efficient a more private more secure protocol and

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consequentially a protocol that brings them more money i don't think anybody would be losing here

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of course there is a little bit of technical effort required that gab already mentioned

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to get this adopted and pushed through.

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So the only losers, in my opinion,

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will be the ones that are still using SV1

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as soon as the SV2 gets adopted.

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Miners that are not upgrading,

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miners that are not learning on time,

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not educating themselves,

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it will take them way more time

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to upgrade to a new protocol

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than to ones that we are talking to.

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And we are talking to a dozen of miners,

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like pools, firmware developers, manufacturers.

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Like for years, we've been talking to them.

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All of us are collaborating in a way together to better understand ecosystem and what is needed and how to overcome all of these inefficiencies that we have.

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So only losers will be the ones that will be left behind because I think it is inevitable that industry that has matured, industry that has reached insane hash rate volumes as well, will inevitably move to SV2.

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and miners that are not educated and don't know anything about it will be left behind and it will

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take them weeks months for some even years to become aware of it and they will probably

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end up in in oblivion in my way in my opinion when when things start getting traction okay um

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all right so tell talk to me about the problems that it solves like how if if i were to adopt

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stratum v2 as a pool um tomorrow how does it make me more money yeah that that's a good question um

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um stratum v2 i can talk a little bit of like more generic uh talking points and then gabo can

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maybe elaborate on any technicalities fun fact gabo is probably the only person in the world that

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has a master thesis specifically for stratum v2 so if anybody here wants to read it it's

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available in English, Gabo, right, as well, from what I remember.

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So Stratum v2 master thesis by Gabriele is online.

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So yeah, Stratum v2 is a more efficient protocol.

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It has a binary format, which eliminates unnecessary messages and removes JSON serialization overhead

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used in Stratum v1.

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Basically, it is way lighter over the wire.

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So like there is data transfers are way more efficient.

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I will give you a concrete example.

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All of this sounds maybe a little bit more technical, but what does that mean for a pool?

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For a pool, that means 60% less bandwidth consumption.

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And bandwidth consumption, from what I became aware, is like second biggest cost of running a pool.

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So reducing that cost to 60% is a pretty good incentive to adopt something.

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And then in a certain configuration, miners themselves can reduce bandwidth up to 70% just from these basic protocol properties because it's lighter and better over the wire.

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So imagine you're a miner in a bandwidth constrained environment running somewhere remote and then you save 70% of bandwidth.

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I think that's a pretty big win.

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So these are like very obvious technical advantages of Stratum V2.

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I have a follow-up question, right?

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A lot of, I mean, my company evolves around bringing more hashrate to Africa.

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And I think with sort of AI craze and all of that stuff,

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we're going to see hash rate, hash price compression.

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We're going to see a lot of people move to sort of fringe mining,

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what I like to call, you know, bush mining somewhere remote

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with a Starlink or whatever, right?

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So I think we're going to see a lot more like that

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somewhere in the middle of nowhere in Nigeria

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on some sort of GSM connection.

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So I can understand the benefits there.

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If I had a remote setup, right?

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Talk to me how I would practically now adopt strategy too.

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Like what does that actually look like?

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I have, I don't know, 100 machines running in a container somewhere.

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Like, how do I actually use the protocol?

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That is to me isn't clear.

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Yeah, I can pick this one or maybe if I want to go ahead.

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Go, Gabo.

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I will fill it in if there is anything missing.

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Go ahead.

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Yeah, earlier in my previous answer, I mentioned briefly a way for which there is no need for the remote place,

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for the miner to upgrade the firmware of the machines.

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And that's because we have a component in the SRI ecosystem,

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which is called translator proxy.

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So this translator proxy allows all your machine, in this case,

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which are speaking natively, just Stratton V1,

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to be able to connect to an SV2 pool server, to an SV2 endpoint.

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because what it does, it's just a proxy that you have to run

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like on a mini PC or like a Raspberry Pi also eventually

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in the mining site, in the mining farm itself.

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And this proxy is just going to do the translation.

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So basically the machines, they can also not like upgrade the firmware

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to be able to speak SV2.

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They just need to pass through this translator proxy

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and they will be able to connect to an SV2 pool.

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getting in this case all the benefits that that pub was was mentioning earlier in terms of bandwidth

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reduction and and uh security all right that clear that makes sense okay and then i need to connect to a pool that speaks Stratum v2 as well right So it machine translator proxy

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all the traffic between the machine

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and that proxy gets translated to v2,

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all the bullshit gets filtered out,

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and then you send the hash rate

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to a Stratum v2 server or pool

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that'll then make use of all that traffic

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and reward you for any work that you're sending.

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Okay.

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Now, there are benefits along the way as well.

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That is the extent to which I am clued up about V2,

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that there's a potential of hijacking the hash rate,

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which V2 eliminates and stuff like that.

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Before you answer that or confirm that,

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maybe tell me what pools can I choose from today?

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What pools are out there that I can connect to

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from that translator proxy?

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00:14:24,754 --> 00:14:30,374
Yeah, so just to put things into perspective, Stratum v2 is a protocol.

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Then you have different implementations of the protocol.

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We have currently two implementations of Stratum v2.

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One is by Brains and one is SRI, which is open source, community governed, completely free to use MIT license implementation of Stratum v2 in Rust.

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We collaborate with Brains.

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We recently formed a working group.

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So all of us together are working on having, in a way, convention how protocols should work.

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So I just wanted to put that into perspective before I move into the rest of your question.

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So Brains was actually the first company that implemented Stratum V2 in production.

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It's been live in their pool for, I think, already three to four years.

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They brag with efficiency gains and all this other stuff that Stratum V2 brings.

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They are just missing the component, which we call the job declarator, which allows miners to construct their own templates.

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So this is one part that Brains still hasn't implemented into their own implementation.

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Speaking of our open source implementation, it's available and can be used today.

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So today we have Brains.

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We have Demand Pool recently opened up and launched for Stratum V2.

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Big miners, I would say.

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So they are targeting businesses.

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it seems first to get a hash rate so that then it will make economical sense for smaller miners to

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to jump in so they are prioritizing i think uh larger miners publicly traded miners so they are

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focused on you know various compliance and all of these things that uh publicly traded miners require

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and then yes exactly exactly so they are focused on onboarding uh i would say like larger amount

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of hash rate publicly traded hash rate and then they will focus on smaller miners hopefully

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and open the gates for that.

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But I guess they are startup trying to onboard people one step at a time.

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So they are actually using our implementation SRI,

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open source implementation demand.

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And then we also have, we earlier mentioned that miners do not need

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to update their firmware to use Stratum V2.

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So in order to connect to Stratum V2 pool,

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you can use something called translation proxy.

231
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However, recently a company named Oradin,

232
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I'm sure you guys know about them.

233
00:16:44,594 --> 00:16:50,354
they launched the stratum v2 compatibility on all of their miners through their flux os

234
00:16:51,554 --> 00:16:56,114
so all of their miners are natively supporting stratum v2 what does that mean well that means

235
00:16:56,114 --> 00:17:01,874
that you no longer need this proxy in order to connect to stratum v2 pool and that also helps

236
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with end-to-end encryption meaning that communication from the miner itself to the pool is all the way

237
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end-to-end encrypted so i would also like to encourage any miners to give oradin a try as

238
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well since they are really pushing hard on innovation and it has been great collaborating

239
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with them they're also part of our working group which aims to accelerate stratum v2 as a public

240
00:17:25,074 --> 00:17:35,554
good protocol very cool right i lost my point as to where i was before hold on let me mark we were

241
00:17:35,554 --> 00:17:40,434
talking about advantages i guess i was talking about efficiencies then we got sidetracked a little

242
00:17:40,434 --> 00:17:47,874
bit. So if you want, we can talk a little bit more. I covered bandwidth efficiencies, but I think there

243
00:17:47,874 --> 00:17:56,194
are a few more bullet points that will be important for miners on Y. Because Stratton V2 is way more...

244
00:17:57,394 --> 00:18:03,394
I want to say for a while, we tried to push Stratton V2 as this miners are constructing templates

245
00:18:03,394 --> 00:18:08,834
protocol, and a lot of miners don't really care about that. However, Stratton V2 brings in, as I

246
00:18:08,834 --> 00:18:11,374
As I already explained, like a lot of efficiency improvements.

247
00:18:11,374 --> 00:18:18,154
I did mention like 60% bandwidth reduction for the pool, 70% for miners in certain configuration.

248
00:18:18,154 --> 00:18:25,574
But there is like a few more bullet points that, for example, Stratum V2 nearly eliminates

249
00:18:25,574 --> 00:18:31,134
stale shares because the node is running in certain configurations.

250
00:18:31,134 --> 00:18:36,274
For example, when a miner is doing template selection, creation, sorry, they are running

251
00:18:36,274 --> 00:18:39,914
node at their own farm, so it removes a lot of latency there.

252
00:18:39,914 --> 00:18:44,194
So Gabo has been doing a lot of benchmarking recently.

253
00:18:44,194 --> 00:18:48,874
Maybe he can explain a little bit better how all of this works.

254
00:18:48,874 --> 00:18:55,034
But like very simply said, traditionally, up to 2% of shares that the miners submit

255
00:18:55,034 --> 00:18:57,374
to the pool are rejected for some reason.

256
00:18:58,654 --> 00:19:05,034
Most of the out of these 2%, only I think 0.2% are actually valid rejections,

257
00:19:05,034 --> 00:19:12,814
which means that it was rejected by the pool because difficulty was lower than the pool wanted.

258
00:19:13,374 --> 00:19:17,714
And then you're left with this number of shares that are lost simply because of latency.

259
00:19:18,514 --> 00:19:24,894
So by running a node closer to the mining farm, these latencies nearly eliminated with Stratum V2.

260
00:19:24,894 --> 00:19:31,874
So you are actually getting paid more because you have more shares submitted that are accepted and valid by the pool itself.

261
00:19:31,874 --> 00:19:38,954
then lower latency also means that you can start working on a template quicker you can start

262
00:19:38,954 --> 00:19:45,614
capturing more transaction fees and I will stop there because Gabo has created a benchmarking tool

263
00:19:45,614 --> 00:19:51,114
which is completely open source which any miner can run maybe he can explain how we measured all

264
00:19:51,114 --> 00:19:57,674
of these concretely and then we can maybe go into security privacy there is like there is a lot of

265
00:19:57,674 --> 00:20:01,814
talking points which I really hope we can explain in this podcast because I don't think we've been

266
00:20:01,814 --> 00:20:04,054
doing a good enough job at elaborating

267
00:20:04,054 --> 00:20:05,714
to miners and your podcast

268
00:20:05,714 --> 00:20:07,974
is like one of the best if not the best

269
00:20:07,974 --> 00:20:09,994
out there and a lot of miners listen to you

270
00:20:09,994 --> 00:20:11,234
so I care that we

271
00:20:11,234 --> 00:20:14,074
clarify all these talking points

272
00:20:14,074 --> 00:20:16,074
one by one. I'll clip what you just said

273
00:20:16,074 --> 00:20:18,054
to make sure everybody sees it as a short

274
00:20:18,054 --> 00:20:19,674
as well. Cabo go.

275
00:20:22,134 --> 00:20:24,054
Sure so yeah Pav mentioned

276
00:20:24,054 --> 00:20:25,974
this benchmarking tool which I

277
00:20:25,974 --> 00:20:28,014
worked on during last year

278
00:20:28,014 --> 00:20:29,994
and so you can find it

279
00:20:29,994 --> 00:20:31,454
on our GitHub

280
00:20:31,454 --> 00:20:33,334
organization.

281
00:20:34,454 --> 00:20:38,354
It's open source and can be run by anyone very easily.

282
00:20:38,354 --> 00:20:45,734
So what it does, it's basically packaging all the components necessary to run an SV1

283
00:20:45,734 --> 00:20:51,894
pool or an SV2 pool with all the translation proxy and all the components that we mentioned

284
00:20:51,894 --> 00:20:52,254
earlier.

285
00:20:52,914 --> 00:21:00,174
So the way it works is that between all of these components, we have some sniffers and

286
00:21:00,174 --> 00:21:08,814
some monitoring tools and some measurement tools which like measure for example the time which

287
00:21:08,814 --> 00:21:16,254
takes for a miner to receive a new job from the pool for example and so by doing that in the sv1

288
00:21:16,254 --> 00:21:23,934
context in the s1 side of the tool itself and on the sv2 we can do comparisons so you what you are

289
00:21:23,934 --> 00:21:30,414
going to see after like some minutes of like connecting miners to to this tool is going to be

290
00:21:30,414 --> 00:21:35,374
a dashboard a graphana dashboard with all these metrics so for example you're going to see like

291
00:21:35,374 --> 00:21:42,174
the time it takes to receive a job from the from the pool for the sb1 connection and for the sb2

292
00:21:42,174 --> 00:21:48,494
connection so you're going to notice that the latency there uh is going to be reduced when

293
00:21:48,494 --> 00:21:55,054
using sb2 that's just one one one simple method you say succinctly why the latency is less

294
00:21:56,974 --> 00:22:04,574
it's uh so if it depends on the configuration so in the simplest one where the miner is not

295
00:22:04,574 --> 00:22:10,894
constructing any template the miner is working on jobs which are selected by the pool as nowadays

296
00:22:10,894 --> 00:22:19,554
the latency improvement there is just due because of the bandwidth and the efficiency gains of the protocol.

297
00:22:20,214 --> 00:22:23,954
So earlier we mentioned that the current Strading V1 protocol,

298
00:22:24,154 --> 00:22:31,834
it uses basically JSON for transmitting messages and communicating with the miners from the pool.

299
00:22:32,634 --> 00:22:35,294
Strading V2, it uses a binary encoding.

300
00:22:35,294 --> 00:22:41,594
so it means that like the same amount of data which has to be transmitted from the pool to the

301
00:22:41,594 --> 00:22:47,854
which is like the mining job in this case it's going to take less time to be transmitted over

302
00:22:47,854 --> 00:22:54,234
the wire that's because the framing so the way the packet the network packet is constructed

303
00:22:54,234 --> 00:23:00,414
is going to require less space because of the binary framing which is making this more efficient

304
00:23:00,414 --> 00:23:06,714
but in the configuration which is like the most interesting one that we are aiming to like

305
00:23:06,714 --> 00:23:14,574
be widely adopted by by majority of miners which is the one where the miner itself is constructing

306
00:23:14,574 --> 00:23:20,734
the block templates its own jobs and it's not relying anymore on the pool server to do that

307
00:23:20,734 --> 00:23:29,094
in that case the latency to get the job is nearly zero because you as a miner you're running this

308
00:23:29,094 --> 00:23:36,294
bitcoin node in your mining site in your mining farm and as soon as like a new block is found for

309
00:23:36,294 --> 00:23:41,734
example in the network you're gonna be notified by the bitcoin node itself which is like there you

310
00:23:41,734 --> 00:23:47,854
know like together with the machines so like the machines are gonna start working on the next job

311
00:23:47,854 --> 00:23:55,694
right right after that why i guess if you rely on the pool yeah the pool has to notify you

312
00:23:55,694 --> 00:23:57,034
Sorry to interrupt you.

313
00:23:57,094 --> 00:23:58,674
Yeah, okay, that makes perfect sense.

314
00:23:58,854 --> 00:24:02,434
Now, let's say I was running a node very remotely, right?

315
00:24:02,694 --> 00:24:06,834
Now I'm still limited by the connection of the node

316
00:24:06,834 --> 00:24:11,294
to make sure that I'm working on the most up-to-date jobs.

317
00:24:11,474 --> 00:24:14,154
And I guess a 10-minute time frame is a lot longer

318
00:24:14,154 --> 00:24:19,534
than what I work with if I don't build block templates myself.

319
00:24:19,614 --> 00:24:20,194
Is that correct?

320
00:24:21,954 --> 00:24:22,434
Sure.

321
00:24:22,434 --> 00:24:29,334
so like connection internet connection status on your site is crucial for for deciding like

322
00:24:29,334 --> 00:24:35,074
what to do in this case yeah if you're like in a very remote place and you know that like a bitcoin

323
00:24:35,074 --> 00:24:42,134
node could be like uh not well connected because of very very poor internet connection

324
00:24:42,134 --> 00:24:51,694
it's probably best for you to rely on the pool jobs in this case yeah uh in both cases i would

325
00:24:51,694 --> 00:25:00,014
say that sv2 brings enhancements because in both cases you're gonna save a ton of bandwidth so if

326
00:25:00,014 --> 00:25:05,434
you are in a remote place and you have poor internet connection as we are saying now you would

327
00:25:05,434 --> 00:25:12,114
you would get like benefits in both cases because like your communications with the external pool

328
00:25:12,114 --> 00:25:16,874
server is going to be reduced the bandwidth used there is going to be way way more less

329
00:25:16,874 --> 00:25:18,774
than now it's currently.

330
00:25:19,414 --> 00:25:19,714
Okay.

331
00:25:20,074 --> 00:25:23,114
Should we talk about the privacy aspects, Pebble?

332
00:25:24,694 --> 00:25:25,194
Yeah.

333
00:25:25,694 --> 00:25:31,774
To understand why SV2 bring privacy aspect,

334
00:25:31,914 --> 00:25:35,374
we have to understand that currently all SV1 miners

335
00:25:35,374 --> 00:25:38,754
are basically running over unencrypted connections,

336
00:25:38,874 --> 00:25:40,314
which is a security risk.

337
00:25:40,314 --> 00:25:43,974
So I will very quickly explain security enhancements

338
00:25:43,974 --> 00:25:48,934
because what we did, first thing that was suggested for a new protocol

339
00:25:48,934 --> 00:25:53,054
is to be actually encrypted because, hello, we are in 2026 now

340
00:25:53,054 --> 00:25:58,994
and basically running an entire multi-billion dollar industry

341
00:25:58,994 --> 00:26:01,394
on top of an encrypted connection is ridiculous.

342
00:26:02,514 --> 00:26:13,409
So Stratton V2 uses the same cryptographic primitives as used in Signal and WhatsApp and it encrypts connections meaning that the hashrate cannot be intercepted

343
00:26:13,589 --> 00:26:21,109
Currently in SV1, it is a very common attack that an attacker sits on top of your network, listens and tries to probe.

344
00:26:21,109 --> 00:26:25,029
and when they manage to intercept the connection,

345
00:26:25,289 --> 00:26:28,789
they usually reroute a portion of your hash rate

346
00:26:28,789 --> 00:26:30,228
because they don't want to do it entirely

347
00:26:30,228 --> 00:26:31,649
because you were quickly noticed.

348
00:26:31,889 --> 00:26:36,529
So what they do is take 1%, 2%, 5%, 10%.

349
00:26:36,529 --> 00:26:38,669
I got confirmation from any pool

350
00:26:38,669 --> 00:26:41,988
that they will unlikely notice very quickly

351
00:26:41,988 --> 00:26:43,929
even if it was after 20%, 30%,

352
00:26:43,929 --> 00:26:47,109
which is pretty scary that somebody can steal.

353
00:26:47,809 --> 00:26:50,429
This is basically 100% of your profitability,

354
00:26:50,429 --> 00:26:52,129
just like steal your hash rate.

355
00:26:52,269 --> 00:26:54,269
So by encrypting connection,

356
00:26:54,508 --> 00:26:56,829
we are making sure that this doesn't happen.

357
00:26:57,789 --> 00:27:00,829
Also, so that's like man-in-the-mill attack prevention.

358
00:27:01,389 --> 00:27:03,849
We also protect you

359
00:27:03,849 --> 00:27:07,129
from the internet service provider themselves, right?

360
00:27:07,169 --> 00:27:09,988
Because unencrypted connections can very easily be scanned

361
00:27:09,988 --> 00:27:12,869
so they can see what is going on.

362
00:27:12,968 --> 00:27:15,389
Your ISP is actually a huge attack vector

363
00:27:15,389 --> 00:27:17,649
that I don't think anybody's talking about,

364
00:27:17,649 --> 00:27:23,149
but like they are even able to calculate your how much money you're making based all of these

365
00:27:23,149 --> 00:27:29,089
messages like they can reverse engineer a lot of these things so a very skilled uh attacker can

366
00:27:29,089 --> 00:27:35,389
really harm your business so just doing a basic encryption ensures that your profitability as a

367
00:27:35,389 --> 00:27:41,889
is uh safe and then in terms of security strutton v2 ensures that there is no out-of-band payment

368
00:27:41,889 --> 00:27:45,008
because if you as a miner are constructing templates yourself,

369
00:27:45,589 --> 00:27:52,248
then hell no, pool cannot get paid for transactions that are not included

370
00:27:52,248 --> 00:27:55,188
because you are aware what is included.

371
00:27:55,409 --> 00:27:58,429
You are sure that the hash rate that you provided

372
00:27:58,429 --> 00:28:00,448
is actually the ones that is used for certain things.

373
00:28:00,549 --> 00:28:04,669
So it prevents pool getting out-of-band payments for out-of-band transactions.

374
00:28:05,669 --> 00:28:09,649
And that means that basically all of this encryption helps,

375
00:28:09,649 --> 00:28:13,988
as I said, reduce, for example, ISP,

376
00:28:14,109 --> 00:28:15,228
ice dropping your connection,

377
00:28:15,929 --> 00:28:18,429
protecting you from somebody trying to learn

378
00:28:18,429 --> 00:28:19,369
how much money you have,

379
00:28:19,629 --> 00:28:22,149
which for certain type of miners is very important.

380
00:28:22,329 --> 00:28:24,008
We have miners running in very,

381
00:28:25,169 --> 00:28:28,569
I would say politically unsecure environments

382
00:28:28,569 --> 00:28:31,228
where regulations are unclear

383
00:28:31,228 --> 00:28:33,728
and their privacy there is probably important.

384
00:28:33,929 --> 00:28:36,508
However, most of them are not even aware of this.

385
00:28:36,728 --> 00:28:38,549
So on an education level,

386
00:28:38,549 --> 00:28:43,849
we need to do better job to explain that like yeah you may be running in a basement but like

387
00:28:43,849 --> 00:28:49,429
your isp can actually spy on you and like if somebody really wanted to to find you they will

388
00:28:49,429 --> 00:28:56,248
yeah but i mean that that if by extension also makes the network um more likely to be more

389
00:28:56,248 --> 00:29:02,448
decentralized right if more people um have feel like they have less eyes on them and can run

390
00:29:02,448 --> 00:29:08,069
machines in jurisdictions where it's maybe illegal to do so right it might propel them to do it more

391
00:29:08,069 --> 00:29:09,948
because now they have more security there.

392
00:29:10,069 --> 00:29:10,508
That makes sense.

393
00:29:12,208 --> 00:29:12,909
Yeah, absolutely.

394
00:29:14,008 --> 00:29:16,228
Okay, so with the time that we have left,

395
00:29:16,309 --> 00:29:18,589
I wanted to harp on a few more points.

396
00:29:20,029 --> 00:29:22,248
Block template creation has come up.

397
00:29:22,869 --> 00:29:26,769
That's usually a prompter for people like me

398
00:29:26,769 --> 00:29:28,208
to ask you about Datum and Ocean.

399
00:29:28,728 --> 00:29:30,809
I understand with Datum, you can do that as well,

400
00:29:30,968 --> 00:29:33,248
but then you're locked into the Ocean pool.

401
00:29:33,349 --> 00:29:34,669
You can't really switch.

402
00:29:35,049 --> 00:29:36,329
So a question there for me would be

403
00:29:36,329 --> 00:29:39,089
if I were to create my own block templates with v2.

404
00:29:39,708 --> 00:29:41,448
Again, you mentioned brains earlier,

405
00:29:41,909 --> 00:29:43,248
which leads me to a follow-up question,

406
00:29:43,309 --> 00:29:44,248
but is there any other pool?

407
00:29:44,329 --> 00:29:46,649
I know demand pool also works on stratum v2.

408
00:29:46,889 --> 00:29:48,389
What other options do I have?

409
00:29:50,508 --> 00:29:54,468
Yeah, currently demand is probably the option to use.

410
00:29:55,248 --> 00:29:57,008
However, you need to be like, you know,

411
00:29:57,369 --> 00:29:59,988
miner that is willing to do KYB with them.

412
00:30:01,069 --> 00:30:03,488
We are working on our end as an open source implementation

413
00:30:03,488 --> 00:30:06,228
to allow miners to deploy pools easily

414
00:30:06,228 --> 00:30:12,109
themselves. So in our configurations, like Miner can deploy pool over Docker, a very basic one.

415
00:30:12,269 --> 00:30:18,488
However, if you wanted to, we are working on that. And the other pool, basically projects,

416
00:30:18,669 --> 00:30:24,629
I don't know, like BraidPool or P2P pool, they can all benefit from Stratum v2 because they can

417
00:30:24,629 --> 00:30:29,968
utilize the communication protocol of it when the time is right for adopting something like that.

418
00:30:30,468 --> 00:30:35,849
I just wanted to get that one clear because I think there is a lot of misconceptions on social

419
00:30:35,849 --> 00:30:41,109
media and there is a lot of well people try to make like this bad blood between ocean and us so

420
00:30:41,109 --> 00:30:46,629
i will just quickly explain the differences so what ocean did is early on even before they made

421
00:30:46,629 --> 00:30:51,409
datum we had a group we communicated together how can we resolve this they wanted to adopt stratum

422
00:30:51,409 --> 00:30:57,708
v2 however they internally came up with a new new protocol basically called datum which

423
00:30:57,708 --> 00:31:05,008
is strictly focused uh focused on you know miners like the templates um they did it in a way that

424
00:31:05,008 --> 00:31:07,349
they don't have to do any upgrades to Bitcoin Core.

425
00:31:08,488 --> 00:31:12,129
So basically, they made a protocol which works for that time.

426
00:31:12,129 --> 00:31:19,448
And they were able, as a venture-backed startup, to gather some hash rate and start using and

427
00:31:19,448 --> 00:31:20,049
mining blocks.

428
00:31:20,169 --> 00:31:25,448
Because at the end of the day, the only metric that matters how something is adopted is amount

429
00:31:25,448 --> 00:31:26,369
of mined blocks, right?

430
00:31:26,448 --> 00:31:28,889
And currently, Ocean, kudos to them.

431
00:31:29,089 --> 00:31:31,029
They are currently doing a good job.

432
00:31:31,208 --> 00:31:34,789
However, Datum Protocol just focuses on template selection.

433
00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:36,948
It doesn't focus on security.

434
00:31:37,649 --> 00:31:41,149
It is not as nearly as efficient as Stratum V2.

435
00:31:41,629 --> 00:31:43,948
It doesn't bring all of these benefits that we talked about.

436
00:31:44,329 --> 00:31:45,609
And I talked to Luke.

437
00:31:45,649 --> 00:31:46,468
I talked to Mechanic.

438
00:31:46,589 --> 00:31:52,149
They said, when Stratum V2 becomes implemented, we will happily, as a pool, adopt it if our clients want it.

439
00:31:52,208 --> 00:31:56,329
So I think there is this unhealthy competition being made, which is probably good.

440
00:31:56,448 --> 00:31:57,948
These days, drama makes marketing.

441
00:31:58,269 --> 00:32:01,228
So I think for both projects, it was okay.

442
00:32:01,508 --> 00:32:03,448
But I just want to elaborate on the differences.

443
00:32:03,448 --> 00:32:08,448
So first and foremost, Stratum V2 is an open source, independent protocol.

444
00:32:09,329 --> 00:32:11,169
There is no single company funding it.

445
00:32:11,289 --> 00:32:16,109
There is six of us working on it, and it's like five entities funding it.

446
00:32:16,129 --> 00:32:23,289
So we try to have this distributed funding in a way, ensuring that no single entity has control over our implementation.

447
00:32:23,629 --> 00:32:24,428
Are they public?

448
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:26,549
Absolutely.

449
00:32:26,849 --> 00:32:30,968
You can go to stratumprotocol.org and you can see, and I can even tell you who they are,

450
00:32:30,968 --> 00:32:32,988
but I'm not sure how much time we have.

451
00:32:33,448 --> 00:32:35,228
But yeah, all of this is public.

452
00:32:35,549 --> 00:32:37,089
Our calls are public.

453
00:32:37,188 --> 00:32:38,748
You can join our dev calls.

454
00:32:39,008 --> 00:32:40,669
All of this is made in the open.

455
00:32:40,809 --> 00:32:42,428
We are developing Stratton V2

456
00:32:42,428 --> 00:32:45,188
as a public good for miners.

457
00:32:45,428 --> 00:32:48,069
We believe that open source infrastructure is critical

458
00:32:48,069 --> 00:32:51,569
and six of us currently are doing our best

459
00:32:51,569 --> 00:32:53,869
to make that work.

460
00:32:55,089 --> 00:32:58,169
So Stratton V2 has both client and server implementation.

461
00:32:58,169 --> 00:33:03,428
I am not aware that Ocean has open source, for example, pool implementation.

462
00:33:04,309 --> 00:33:06,829
I already said that Stratton V2 is more efficient.

463
00:33:07,309 --> 00:33:10,748
Ocean still uses get block templates, which are horrible.

464
00:33:11,488 --> 00:33:17,069
Stratton V2 has pushed based templates.

465
00:33:17,829 --> 00:33:22,488
So that means the template is sent immediately to you when the block is found.

466
00:33:22,569 --> 00:33:24,508
You're not trying to pull them.

467
00:33:24,508 --> 00:33:29,248
And so there is a lot of efficiency enhancements there.

468
00:33:29,409 --> 00:33:30,169
I'm not sure how much.

469
00:33:30,248 --> 00:33:30,829
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

470
00:33:30,829 --> 00:33:35,488
So Datum is great for current protocol.

471
00:33:35,728 --> 00:33:39,669
Unfortunately, current protocol is so bad that I really don't see.

472
00:33:39,889 --> 00:33:44,708
It's very unrealistic to expect that it will remain adopted

473
00:33:44,708 --> 00:33:46,909
because things are moving on.

474
00:33:47,329 --> 00:33:48,869
Miners are in a cutthroat business.

475
00:33:49,008 --> 00:33:50,049
It's a race for excellence.

476
00:33:50,188 --> 00:33:51,409
Everybody wants more efficiency.

477
00:33:51,988 --> 00:33:53,569
Everybody are trying to get more energy.

478
00:33:53,569 --> 00:33:59,349
But at the end of the day, with very simple software tweaks, you will be able to squeeze more profitability.

479
00:33:59,609 --> 00:34:02,169
And once miners realize that, it will be a no-brainer.

480
00:34:02,669 --> 00:34:05,889
BitX, solomining.de, got it.

481
00:34:06,029 --> 00:34:07,829
Premium made in Germany.

482
00:34:07,988 --> 00:34:08,789
You want to go fancy?

483
00:34:09,269 --> 00:34:12,829
Go for NerdX or NerdQX++ for a lot of power.

484
00:34:13,229 --> 00:34:13,869
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485
00:34:14,369 --> 00:34:16,468
Check out solomining.de today.

486
00:34:16,789 --> 00:34:21,269
So one thing that Gavo said earlier that we talked about was the stale shares, right?

487
00:34:21,269 --> 00:34:24,508
and I mean anybody in a hosted environment

488
00:34:24,508 --> 00:34:27,329
any miner that's struggling with compressed margins

489
00:34:27,329 --> 00:34:29,769
that's not being paid for 2% of the work

490
00:34:29,769 --> 00:34:31,729
that's like an extra pool fee basically

491
00:34:31,729 --> 00:34:34,089
you pay 2% fee on the pool

492
00:34:34,089 --> 00:34:36,488
and then you pay another 2% of work

493
00:34:36,488 --> 00:34:38,128
that's not counted towards your balance

494
00:34:38,128 --> 00:34:41,108
even though you expanded energy to create those shares

495
00:34:41,108 --> 00:34:43,628
and they get registered by the pool

496
00:34:43,628 --> 00:34:46,008
but they don't get counted towards your revenue

497
00:34:46,008 --> 00:34:48,289
because they, I don't know, for some reason

498
00:34:48,289 --> 00:34:50,409
are not counted, right?

499
00:34:51,269 --> 00:34:57,988
and I think is that maybe so if we sort of talk about the future of v2 I mean yes you guys have

500
00:34:57,988 --> 00:35:05,249
funders they're open source cool I understand that um but that's in my in my mind is not a

501
00:35:06,089 --> 00:35:12,928
um highly sustainable um business model or or model for the future right you can't rely on

502
00:35:12,928 --> 00:35:19,049
always having funders um and I understand look Bitcoin Core has been open source funded for for

503
00:35:19,049 --> 00:35:26,508
longest time now however there i have the assurance that even without maintenance you know the the

504
00:35:26,508 --> 00:35:31,369
protocol works and can be used yes it needs maintenance but it's not a do or die situation

505
00:35:31,369 --> 00:35:38,128
if tomorrow funding dried up and you guys are not paid anymore you guys have families um and you need

506
00:35:38,128 --> 00:35:44,689
to feed yourselves right so then you move on to other things um and v2 i would say is not in a

507
00:35:44,689 --> 00:35:53,148
stage where it sort of carries itself right so is there um is there maybe a lack of or is there room

508
00:35:53,148 --> 00:36:00,049
for for the project to adopt better marketing and say like yo these are the these are the benefits

509
00:36:00,049 --> 00:36:05,729
of adoption of v2 you know less stale shares what does that actually mean to your to your bottom

510
00:36:05,729 --> 00:36:11,809
line as a miner to get more people on that bandwagon and push it up their priority list

511
00:36:11,809 --> 00:36:13,089
because as you said in the beginning,

512
00:36:13,089 --> 00:36:15,628
it's just not where it needs to be

513
00:36:15,628 --> 00:36:19,589
and miners are quote-unquote too busy to adopt it.

514
00:36:20,069 --> 00:36:20,589
What do you think?

515
00:36:21,488 --> 00:36:23,349
So I guess your question is,

516
00:36:23,549 --> 00:36:25,549
how does the project sustain financially?

517
00:36:25,988 --> 00:36:29,069
Are there any risks there if all of us got hit by a bus?

518
00:36:29,209 --> 00:36:29,869
What does it happen?

519
00:36:29,988 --> 00:36:30,589
Well, it's published.

520
00:36:30,709 --> 00:36:32,209
First and foremost, it's published on GitHub.

521
00:36:33,008 --> 00:36:34,928
If all of us leave the project tomorrow,

522
00:36:35,249 --> 00:36:36,928
MIT license, anybody can fork it

523
00:36:36,928 --> 00:36:40,108
and keep improving it if their business depends on it.

524
00:36:40,108 --> 00:36:42,529
So I don't think that's a very realistic argument.

525
00:36:42,729 --> 00:36:47,128
Second of all, I've been doing open source for nine years now, full time in Bitcoin.

526
00:36:47,648 --> 00:36:50,749
I worked first two and a half years for absolutely zero.

527
00:36:51,648 --> 00:36:54,948
So for me, this is mission and it will continue to be a mission.

528
00:36:54,948 --> 00:37:00,608
And I'm sure for Gabo as well, like for all of us, this is a mission because we deeply care about Bitcoin.

529
00:37:01,689 --> 00:37:07,749
And I think that mining is a deeply underserved area, deeply undervalued.

530
00:37:07,749 --> 00:37:18,309
And I think there is a lot of improvements that can be made of having an open source infrastructure for all of these companies to build and innovate on.

531
00:37:18,589 --> 00:37:22,529
Because with Stratum V2, we have a set of modular libraries.

532
00:37:22,529 --> 00:37:26,389
So basically any company can now come and start building on top of these.

533
00:37:26,569 --> 00:37:27,709
They can build innovative products.

534
00:37:27,869 --> 00:37:32,428
So they spend more time on building innovation versus chasing compatibility problems.

535
00:37:32,428 --> 00:37:36,389
Because what happened with SV1 is like everybody kept ripping off each other.

536
00:37:36,488 --> 00:37:37,508
There were no specifications.

537
00:37:37,749 --> 00:37:41,869
I make this, you try to reverse engineer it, and then we have compatibility issues.

538
00:37:42,069 --> 00:37:46,769
So now my engineering team needs to spend like three weeks trying to figure out what's wrong

539
00:37:46,769 --> 00:37:50,628
instead of like we have clear set of specifications here of how things should work.

540
00:37:51,309 --> 00:37:54,389
So, you know, we have more time to innovate.

541
00:37:55,049 --> 00:38:00,628
I really don't think that like, I think the model we currently have is great.

542
00:38:00,889 --> 00:38:04,448
I would love if there were more miners there to support us.

543
00:38:04,448 --> 00:38:16,269
But I am pretty sure that once they see the value of this and their business start using it, they will be financially incentivized as well to support open source or to become involved.

544
00:38:16,389 --> 00:38:22,309
Because we had miners, we had mining companies that sent their own employees to help work on Stratum V2.

545
00:38:22,829 --> 00:38:28,269
And just one more thing, we have 47 contributors until this day working on one of the main repos.

546
00:38:28,269 --> 00:38:35,128
so i don't think like you know passion will dry up and like i don't think uh you know people can

547
00:38:35,128 --> 00:38:41,128
build their careers people move on so it's more about the money you know i mean 40 hash price

548
00:38:41,128 --> 00:38:46,269
impacts everybody uh and that means there's less money in mining so what i'm saying is the risk is

549
00:38:46,269 --> 00:38:53,069
that open source funding over time dries up um yeah but like you know exactly what you like it's

550
00:38:53,069 --> 00:38:57,709
it's getting harder and harder to to make profit in mining and like with these small tweaks miners

551
00:38:57,709 --> 00:39:00,749
miners will unlock possibilities to make more money.

552
00:39:00,749 --> 00:39:18,243
And then they will be incentivized to either send their people to contribute to the main project or they will just find somebody and give them a grant because there is a lot a company can gain by providing a grant I don think it fair to say oh it just marketing

553
00:39:18,483 --> 00:39:20,423
Oh, it's just like we are throwing money.

554
00:39:20,523 --> 00:39:25,503
No, you are a financially responsible company if you support open source

555
00:39:25,503 --> 00:39:28,003
because it's in a way R&D for you.

556
00:39:28,243 --> 00:39:30,163
You get a lot of benefits from it.

557
00:39:30,163 --> 00:39:36,963
You know, you're not actually, you're like directly connected with the infrastructure your business relies on.

558
00:39:37,083 --> 00:39:39,163
So I think it's pretty incentivized.

559
00:39:39,943 --> 00:39:43,503
I think it's aligned and I don't think, you know, it will dry up.

560
00:39:43,623 --> 00:39:48,743
I think as Bitcoin continues to grow, we can only see more of this and we can see more contributors coming in.

561
00:39:49,803 --> 00:39:49,963
Yeah.

562
00:39:50,243 --> 00:39:50,483
Okay.

563
00:39:50,543 --> 00:39:55,143
Now I have one more question around primary pools that I wrote down earlier.

564
00:39:55,143 --> 00:39:59,923
When you mentioned Brains, you mentioned that Brains doesn't have the job declaration feature yet.

565
00:40:00,163 --> 00:40:08,363
And from what I understood, and please correct me if it's entirely wrong, because it's a very complicated topic for me to wrap my head around.

566
00:40:09,803 --> 00:40:15,023
For any miner to adopt V2, they need to have an endpoint being a pool that also adopts V2, correct?

567
00:40:15,523 --> 00:40:20,863
So now I'm thinking, okay, like if you see Luxa pool, Brains pool, all these big pools,

568
00:40:20,863 --> 00:40:27,723
um they tend to occasionally also use bigger primary pools to offload their hash rate too

569
00:40:27,723 --> 00:40:32,403
if you know they they run the risk of having a bad luck streak and stuff like that right

570
00:40:32,403 --> 00:40:42,283
so let's let's say um um brains were to adopt this doesn't mean that they if they let the

571
00:40:42,283 --> 00:40:47,943
miner create the block templates right doesn't that automatically also mean that they cannot

572
00:40:47,943 --> 00:40:53,463
sell the hash rate to a primary pool and lose that optionality?

573
00:40:53,463 --> 00:40:55,703
Do you know what that means? Does that make sense?

574
00:40:57,703 --> 00:41:04,743
Yeah, I think I got it. I think the answer is that they can keep doing it eventually.

575
00:41:06,183 --> 00:41:14,183
Because when you're mining as a miner in a pool, the reward is typically being assigned to the pool

576
00:41:14,183 --> 00:41:19,943
or to the address or the coinbase transaction which is built by the pool so you as a miner

577
00:41:20,743 --> 00:41:25,543
you are constructing the template so you are doing the so-called transaction selection

578
00:41:25,543 --> 00:41:33,383
from the main pool of your knot but then where the money goes it that that that thing is decided

579
00:41:33,383 --> 00:41:41,863
by the pool because like that's what the pool uh typically does so that that doesn't change

580
00:41:41,863 --> 00:41:50,663
with sv2 it always gonna be depend on the pool itself so let's say maybe the way the way i'm just

581
00:41:50,663 --> 00:41:54,743
sorry sorry maybe i didn't understand uh maybe i don't understand what you're saying let me let me

582
00:41:54,743 --> 00:42:02,183
rephrase my question right so if i'm the pool and i send you jobs and i want to have the optionality

583
00:42:02,183 --> 00:42:10,583
of selling the hash rate that you send me to and pool right um but now i let you do the job

584
00:42:10,583 --> 00:42:19,383
declaration will end pools still buy that hash rate yeah i think the to to properly reason about

585
00:42:19,383 --> 00:42:27,543
this we have like to to be aligned on the way these pools these these smaller pools are sometimes

586
00:42:27,543 --> 00:42:34,183
selling the ashrate to another big bigger one the way i see it is that they are selling it

587
00:42:34,183 --> 00:42:41,543
by redirecting the money which are collected in the block which is the the block reward to them

588
00:42:42,423 --> 00:42:50,343
that's the way they are selling it okay uh and this part the block reward coinbase transaction

589
00:42:50,903 --> 00:42:57,943
is decided by the pool itself so also in the job declaration mod which is the configuration where

590
00:42:57,943 --> 00:43:09,863
the miners select the transactions from the node, the pool is always the point, the entity which

591
00:43:09,863 --> 00:43:16,423
is going to decide where the money is going to be collected, basically the Coinbase transaction.

592
00:43:17,383 --> 00:43:25,703
So there's no difference with regards to that. It's not a protocol thing per se. It's something

593
00:43:25,703 --> 00:43:32,023
decided by the pool so for example like now ocean that doesn't do that because ocean like

594
00:43:32,023 --> 00:43:38,263
read redistributes majority of the block reward to the miners right directly into the coinbase

595
00:43:38,263 --> 00:43:45,703
transaction but it's like a business decision decision they made on top on top of a protocol

596
00:43:45,703 --> 00:43:52,983
yeah i guess i guess what the pools do give up though is um so the pools if they let you

597
00:43:52,983 --> 00:44:02,523
you decide what goes into the um into the templates there is of course there's game theory

598
00:44:02,523 --> 00:44:06,043
right miners want to make as much money as possible so they're always going to choose the

599
00:44:06,043 --> 00:44:11,863
highest fee transaction but there is room for miners to make mistakes there you know and then

600
00:44:11,863 --> 00:44:17,143
the pool gives up that revenue uh from the fees i guess if they let somebody else decide

601
00:44:17,143 --> 00:44:19,343
and that's a risk on them, right?

602
00:44:20,963 --> 00:44:24,763
But that's potentially a weakness of letting the miner,

603
00:44:25,343 --> 00:44:27,783
if I'm the pool, it's a downside for me

604
00:44:27,783 --> 00:44:30,743
to let the miner decide what transactions go in

605
00:44:30,743 --> 00:44:34,403
because it reduces my total revenue potentially

606
00:44:34,403 --> 00:44:35,583
if they make mistakes.

607
00:44:37,363 --> 00:44:39,203
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

608
00:44:40,023 --> 00:44:43,263
This point has been discussed for a while now.

609
00:44:43,263 --> 00:44:55,163
I think the answer is something similar to what the demand guys did, which is designing a payout mechanism.

610
00:44:55,823 --> 00:45:06,543
In their case, the name is Slice, which pays the miner accordingly to the amount of fees, transaction fees, which they are collecting.

611
00:45:06,543 --> 00:45:12,803
so for example if we are if we are two miners and we are mining let's say with the path pool

612
00:45:12,803 --> 00:45:19,863
and we are building our block templates let's say i'm collecting in my block template one bitcoin

613
00:45:19,863 --> 00:45:26,523
as transaction fees while you you want to to create like a bad template and you are collecting

614
00:45:26,523 --> 00:45:34,383
like 1000 sats instead of one bitcoin you uh since you are working on a template which is like

615
00:45:34,383 --> 00:45:40,883
getting less money than me you are gonna proportionally be paid less from the pool than me

616
00:45:40,883 --> 00:45:48,183
because like the amount of value that you are creating for the the entire pool itself is less

617
00:45:48,183 --> 00:45:55,203
than mine and like the slice payout mechanism which i mentioned earlier which is like formalized

618
00:45:55,203 --> 00:46:03,603
uh by the demand guys demand pool guys uh is is basically doing that allowing for that

619
00:46:03,603 --> 00:46:10,663
all right sounds good guys we're running out of time unfortunately and we'll have to do a follow-up

620
00:46:10,663 --> 00:46:15,763
to this i want to do a quick round of rapid fire if you don't mind um i'm going to ask you um

621
00:46:15,763 --> 00:46:21,343
question and then first pavel answers very briefly and then gabo you go if you have a good answer okay

622
00:46:21,343 --> 00:46:27,043
all right number one stratum v2 in one word how do you describe it

623
00:46:27,043 --> 00:46:29,503
future

624
00:46:29,503 --> 00:46:37,243
optimization biggest myth about stratum v2 bubble

625
00:46:39,883 --> 00:46:45,703
oh uh there are way too many uh i think one of the biggest ones is that it is controlled by brains

626
00:46:45,703 --> 00:46:53,923
for some reason i was called brains spy for years and years until and i have never even uh yeah been

627
00:46:53,923 --> 00:46:57,323
or I know them, but I never really was very close with brains.

628
00:46:57,883 --> 00:47:00,863
But yeah, it is just like to debate that one.

629
00:47:00,983 --> 00:47:04,963
It's like completely public good developed by multiple entities,

630
00:47:04,963 --> 00:47:07,003
by a working group these days.

631
00:47:07,263 --> 00:47:10,763
And it's really a public group, open source specification

632
00:47:10,763 --> 00:47:14,183
and infrastructure for any miners to build on innovation

633
00:47:14,183 --> 00:47:15,603
and products on top of.

634
00:47:16,223 --> 00:47:19,423
Gabriel, quick answer, biggest myth about strategy two.

635
00:47:19,643 --> 00:47:23,203
Mine was the same, but I recently started to see

636
00:47:23,203 --> 00:47:27,203
like the same thing, but not with brains, but with Bitcoin Core.

637
00:47:27,403 --> 00:47:28,183
I don't know why.

638
00:47:28,863 --> 00:47:30,263
Yeah, Bitcoin Core versus NOS.

639
00:47:30,363 --> 00:47:31,143
There's another discussion.

640
00:47:31,743 --> 00:47:34,463
Hardest thing to explain to miners, Favo?

641
00:47:36,903 --> 00:47:45,143
In context of Stratum V2 is that very small software tweaks can unlock more profitability.

642
00:47:45,883 --> 00:47:50,763
We've done a case study that maybe we can link in the show notes.

643
00:47:51,743 --> 00:47:52,943
Maybe, Jesse, you can do that.

644
00:47:53,203 --> 00:48:07,863
But basically, one of our starting points there is to prove that miners can earn at least, I think it was 7.4% more with Stratum V2, which in a competitive race is quite a lot.

645
00:48:07,863 --> 00:48:12,023
And we were pretty conservative there, I must say, in our assumptions.

646
00:48:12,523 --> 00:48:17,243
And we tested it on our non-production ready applications at that time.

647
00:48:17,743 --> 00:48:20,143
And we will continue doing these benchmarks.

648
00:48:20,143 --> 00:48:29,763
And as Gabo said, this tool is also open source, so any miners can deploy it, run it constantly and just see how much more efficiency they can squeeze with Stratton V2.

649
00:48:30,563 --> 00:48:33,523
Gabo, what's the hardest thing to explain to miners about V2?

650
00:48:35,543 --> 00:48:41,903
I think the same. So the efficiency gains, that's why we built the tool and we did the study.

651
00:48:41,903 --> 00:48:49,903
But also the security benefits of it. How much important is security in the mining scenario?

652
00:48:50,143 --> 00:48:51,483
All right, last one.

653
00:48:51,663 --> 00:48:53,483
Pavel, what kills Stratumv2?

654
00:48:56,603 --> 00:49:01,703
Oh, I would say that lack of adoption can kill it.

655
00:49:02,223 --> 00:49:04,923
Not having a block maybe next time when we speak.

656
00:49:05,143 --> 00:49:09,543
Jesse, if Stratumv2 block hasn't appeared on mainnet,

657
00:49:09,643 --> 00:49:11,783
then maybe it means that we are doing something wrong.

658
00:49:11,963 --> 00:49:15,123
However, just knowing a little bit behind the scenes

659
00:49:15,123 --> 00:49:17,463
and all the adopters that we are talking to,

660
00:49:17,463 --> 00:49:23,103
I'm pretty confident that Stratum v2 will be a different story than the one kill.

661
00:49:23,243 --> 00:49:28,463
I think next time we speak, it will probably be a race to adopt Stratum v2.

662
00:49:28,643 --> 00:49:35,143
And maybe I will not even have time to talk with you because we'll have to talk to all of these miners and try to educate them and explain them how they can implement things.

663
00:49:35,983 --> 00:49:39,523
But yeah, maybe lack of education can be a critical factor.

664
00:49:39,523 --> 00:49:44,063
And I think we as an open source project understand the value of that.

665
00:49:44,063 --> 00:49:46,463
And we are doubling down on education in recent years.

666
00:49:46,783 --> 00:49:48,843
And maybe like last year, we did a lot,

667
00:49:48,983 --> 00:49:50,903
doing a lot of conferences, a lot of podcasts.

668
00:49:51,123 --> 00:49:53,803
So also thank you to you for inviting us

669
00:49:53,803 --> 00:49:57,803
because it is important to keep spreading education

670
00:49:57,803 --> 00:50:01,383
and talking points, which is critical, I think, for adoption.

671
00:50:02,043 --> 00:50:02,343
All right.

672
00:50:02,403 --> 00:50:04,203
Is there anything, guys, that I have not asked

673
00:50:04,203 --> 00:50:05,283
that you wanted to explain?

674
00:50:09,343 --> 00:50:12,563
Well, we talked a little bit on adoption side.

675
00:50:12,563 --> 00:50:17,843
I mentioned that like already in brains, I forgot to mention that Proto is also announced publicly,

676
00:50:17,843 --> 00:50:21,123
you know, launching compatibility on Stratum v2.

677
00:50:21,683 --> 00:50:25,283
Demand has recently opened their pool for miners.

678
00:50:25,283 --> 00:50:27,843
We have several more, which are even public.

679
00:50:27,843 --> 00:50:30,723
I don't want to mention anybody by name because mine.

680
00:50:30,723 --> 00:50:35,363
Like one more thing I want to say is like when we work with early adopters as an open source project,

681
00:50:35,363 --> 00:50:37,923
we really try to be privacy minded.

682
00:50:37,923 --> 00:50:41,763
We don't want to, we don't spread around like who is testing it, who is using it,

683
00:50:41,763 --> 00:50:44,823
because we understand that mining is a very competitive business

684
00:50:44,823 --> 00:50:48,483
and we as an open source community really approach it carefully.

685
00:50:48,963 --> 00:50:51,543
So if there are any miners that are considering Stratum V2,

686
00:50:51,643 --> 00:50:54,943
implementing it or need help, feel free to reach out to us.

687
00:50:55,523 --> 00:50:58,523
We as a community are always open to help you.

688
00:50:58,783 --> 00:51:00,703
Website is stratumprotocol.org.

689
00:51:00,803 --> 00:51:03,603
We have Discord where you can come ask questions publicly

690
00:51:03,603 --> 00:51:05,283
or reach out to us privately.

691
00:51:05,943 --> 00:51:08,903
We do respect the privacy of all the adopters.

692
00:51:08,903 --> 00:51:11,883
all right Gabor anything from you that we haven't covered

693
00:51:11,883 --> 00:51:15,763
I think we covered a lot of stuff

694
00:51:15,763 --> 00:51:17,663
of course we have a ton of resources

695
00:51:17,663 --> 00:51:19,803
as we mentioned at the beginning of this podcast

696
00:51:19,803 --> 00:51:21,763
so we are collecting

697
00:51:21,763 --> 00:51:22,743
some of them

698
00:51:22,743 --> 00:51:26,303
in our website which is stratumprotocol.org

699
00:51:26,303 --> 00:51:27,783
then check out

700
00:51:27,783 --> 00:51:29,983
also our github repositories

701
00:51:29,983 --> 00:51:31,463
and yeah

702
00:51:31,463 --> 00:51:33,743
I think it was

703
00:51:33,743 --> 00:51:35,683
like a very big opportunity for us

704
00:51:35,683 --> 00:51:37,823
to share some more knowledge about SV2

705
00:51:37,823 --> 00:51:44,063
and hopefully we demystified some myths as well so yeah thanks thanks jesse again for that for sure

706
00:51:44,063 --> 00:51:48,623
no absolutely my guys thank you so much for your time and and explaining things to me and my

707
00:51:48,623 --> 00:51:57,023
audience absolutely appreciate it um this were pavel and gabbo gabriel from stratum v2 feel free

708
00:51:57,023 --> 00:52:01,823
to reach out we're gonna leave a list of resources in the show notes for sure for you to check out

709
00:52:01,823 --> 00:52:12,063
later and yeah i hope you learned something new i know i did so i'll see you next time thank you bye