if bitcoin fails it is a catastrophic disaster for humankind because we have one shot at sound
money and it's the most important opportunity possible right if nostril fails tomorrow what
did we lose nada we lost some content content is worthless in the digital age maybe we lost some
reputations and stuff like that amongst some people but honestly it's so small that it doesn't
fucking matter and also the reputations are generally tied to real people i've been banned
on twitter 10 times i come back i get a new account i get all my followers back right so it doesn't
matter so it's not like the cost of the cost of losing one is completely different to the cost of
losing the other yes there's some relationship between the two but the level of importance man
is like fucking galaxies apart like bitcoin is a billion times more important than nostril if
nostril fails tomorrow another implementation will be developed and another one will take off but if
Bitcoin fails, Jesus Christ, with all the problems.
Hello guys, welcome once again to a new season actually of BitCorn podcast.
Today we start season 5.
So before starting the podcast, I just want to say thanks to you.
Thank you for being part of this amazing project.
and thank you for these two wonderful years.
We have been recording about two seasons per year.
Today we're going to start the 50th.
And you're hearing this probably is the beginning of January of 2026,
probably the end of the year in December.
Yeah.
What can you expect in this new season?
Basically the same.
As you know, Bitcoin our podcast is a bit different
from the rest of the Bitcoin podcast out there in the world.
And why? Because we play the long time preference game.
So that means that from time to time, we cover the things that are happening around the world in the current time.
But we actually, because again, we're focusing on the long time preference.
That's why our podcast is educational content exclusively, or better said, primarily,
because we do, from time to time,
cover some things that are related to economy,
politics that probably are huge in that moment
or that actually impact El Salvador or Surroundis somehow
that, yeah, in fact, we need to cover.
But those are the exceptions.
So, but why do we do that?
Because it doesn't matter if you start the podcast,
for example, to listen to season three,
two four or one today doesn't matter because we're playing the long time preference so
if you can watch an episode of the previous seasons the value will be and remain the same
so that's something that we want to provide to El Salvador so it doesn't matter if you are
Salvadorian but also any person from any part of the world if you can have any benefit to listen
this podcast and learning about Bitcoin, no matter where you listen, you will learn about
it.
And the value will remain the same because it's not something that is happening right
now.
It's beyond that.
It's related to the core values of Bitcoin.
So that's why we are a little bit different from the rest of the podcast.
And I'm not saying that those are bad.
On the contrary, they are the perfect creators on those topics.
and that's why we're leaving to them because I think they do a better job than myself on those
topics. So what do you expect again in this season? Well, we will continue doing these kind of topics
in Bitcoin, but also we're going to talk a little bit more about Noster and we're going to start
the season with that. Today we're going to talk about Noster, more specifically about Satlantis.
So Satlantis, if you know Jordi or if you know Alex, who is the one that's going to be
our guests today, they have been working in this project that is South Atlantis, which not just
involved Bitcoin, but also Noster, but also AI. So I think it's quite interesting. And for my
surprise, when we do this recording, I was thinking that we were going to talk a little
bit more about Noster, but in fact, we ended up talking a little bit more of Bitcoin. So
it was quite interesting. I love it. I learned a lot from Alex. I learned a lot from Alex,
and I hope that you can learn as well.
I must say that this episode was recorded a few weeks ago
that today that I'm recording
and then I went to holidays
and then I started planning the road of the season five.
So what you're going to see today
is actually a recording that happened a few weeks before
but from the rest of the episodes
it will be the actual season recording season five.
so I just want to say
thank you to Alex for doing the recording
and
I hope that you get excited with this episode
but also the next one
and again, as you know, the podcast is bilingual
so which means that
if you're hearing this
you'll listen in English
but if you're watching this
you can see that we have Spanish subtitles
and when we have recordings in Spanish
we will have English subtitles
so that way we close the gap
and you can say, Juan
but why don't you use AI Dove?
And the reason is that I just don't like it.
So I won't do it.
For me, it's very unnatural.
And I prefer that people talk in the language
that they can be more fluent.
So if it's English, if it's Spanish, let's go for that.
And so you can learn from their voice
and not from an artificial intelligence.
Let's be the most humans possible.
So I think that's it.
season five will have a lot of surprises in the road i just want to say once again thanks to you
the listener but also i would just want to say thank you to my partners from blackstream to be
here since the beginning but also people bloom gary lennon is an amazing friend also adopting
bitcoin guys uh you have made an amazing job this year like every single year but i also want to
shout out to the rest of the meetups and conferences that went that happened in el
salvador in november november is basically the month of el salvador bitcoin country i was following
bitcoin story go was amazing also i want to shout out to economia btc from berlin but also i want to
shout out to the conferences and all the of course the bitcoin farmer market and all the amazing
Bitcoin communities that are evolving little by little in El Salvador and that we can show more
how El Salvador is transforming by the daily life, but also in these meetings or in these conferences.
So I just want to say thank you to all my partners, to you, and also last but not least to the Bitcoin
conference, which is another partner, and also the amazing guys that we have done, the side projects
with the guys of the Bitcoin Film Fest.
So yeah, hopefully we'll have more recordings with them.
So I think that's it.
Everything that I want to say for now.
So let's leave it here.
And I just want to tell you,
enjoy the beginning of season five of Bit Corner Podcast.
All right.
I'll leave you with myself and Alex.
So see you right now.
Welcome to the podcast.
Gracias, Juan.
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate the invitation and looking forward to our conversation.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, you're working in heavy stuff.
South Atlantis is one that actually I learned about that because of Jordi.
So shout out to Jordi.
I know that he watched the podcast as well.
And he gave me a test of this and I think the beta and I tried it.
And it's cool.
And so we're going to discuss about that.
But I think a good idea is to start from the beginning.
I mean, for those probably that are new to it, actually, Nostra is quite new in a way.
So if you can explain what is Nostra and why does it matter for the future of communication,
privacy, and sovereignty?
See? Okay.
I mean, I don't know about privacy and sovereignty, honestly.
I think those...
I don't know how much Nostra really helps with those, and that might be a contrarian opinion.
For me, maybe somewhat the sovereignty element, because the nature of Nostra is that your identity is a bearer instrument, a bit like how Bitcoin is a bearer instrument, right?
So there's a similarity there.
But actually, honestly, I think that's where the similarity between Bitcoin and Nostra stops.
And I'll explain what I mean by that in a minute.
Okay.
But beyond that, the way I would define Nostra really simply is identity protocol for the web.
Many people call it a social protocol.
And while that is somewhat true, you know, because it's quite versatile and the nature of being able to create metadata like follower lists and natively on the protocol means that it's primarily being used as a social content protocol these days.
But I think where the utility is, is that it's almost like an identity as a service or a social graph as a service that you could build applications on and give them some sort of social context that they may not have been able to have before.
So in our case, you know, we've sort of evolved Atlantis into more of an events app now.
And I'll talk about our evolution during the call.
But for us, we're now less and less interested in content.
and more and more interested in tooling.
And the tool specifically is kind of like a meetup in Eventbrite,
but with Bitcoin ticketing and a social layer powered by Nostra.
So to come back to your question, I view Nostra as a,
like if the internet has four layers today,
like the base layer, TCP, IP, and then HTTPS,
with Bitcoin and Nostra, we have another two layers.
We have two new layers.
We have the monetary layer, and now we have an identity layer.
And what you can build on top of that stack is things that you couldn't build on the stack of just four layers.
So that to me is exciting.
That's the way I kind of look at Nostra is it's a new layer for the internet that enables us.
It gives us a new design space for applications.
I think we're very early in the kinds of applications that are being built.
But we at Sotlantis are going to try and do something unique with this stack that hopefully hasn't been done before, hasn't been done in a great way.
So that's my attempt to kind of define Nostra.
Identity layer for the web.
And how do you explain the difference between a protocol and a platform?
Yeah, I mean, a platform is a product.
So a platform is an application that is built on top of protocols, whereas a protocol is not a product.
It's not an application.
A protocol is just kind of like a messaging medium.
So it's very different in that sense.
And I think this is maybe one of the confusions around Nostra is that, you know, a lot of
people view Nostra as competition to Twitter, but they're conflating protocol with a platform.
And I don't think that's the right thing.
And people sort of look at it as like a failed Twitter.
They're like, oh, okay, well, it's not that fucking great, you know, but I don't think
that's what it is.
I think, you know, Primal is competing with Twitter and that's a different story, but not Nostra, right?
And this is sometimes, you know, gets people confused, I think, because, you know, for example, products like Primal and Damus and even us to some degree, we market Nostra instead of marketing our products.
And then people, you know, use it not because of the product, but because of Nostra and like things get a little bit messy there.
I think we need to start separating the two and focusing on building good products that use Nostra in the stack.
Yeah.
And what is the ANAP approach, as Nostra as possible?
You use that a lot.
Yeah.
I spoke about this when we met actually in Barcelona.
So I spoke about this on stage there.
So I basically said, look, Nostra, let's even take Nostra out of the equation here.
protocols in general move move at a slower pace than businesses right a business has to find you
know particularly if you're a tech product you have to find product market fit you have to get
customers and you have to survive you know you have to do something useful and you need to do
that in a relatively short period of time one year two years you know three years maximum sort of in
that range a protocol on the other hand five ten twenty thirty fifty years right like you know
HTTPS has been around for what now?
35?
No, what am I talking about?
Like almost 40 years now, right?
So it's been around.
And we're still, honestly, I believe we're still in the early days of the internet.
Like the internet is still like growing.
Bitcoin, what is it now?
16 years old?
17 years old?
16 years?
Yeah.
It takes time, right?
You know, Nostra is three years old, maybe three and a half.
You know, like it's still young.
It's still a baby.
which means that if we try and build products that are all like fully Nostra compatible,
but have really shit user interface or really clunky or really slow or really bad user experience,
but they're on Nostra, we've achieved nothing because we've just pissed off the customers.
They're not going to come back. Maybe a few hardcore people will stick around,
but most people will go away, we'll leave. So then the business disappears. And then the protocol
suffers because now the businesses aren't building on there, right? So as Nostra as possible
is sort of like a framework which says, okay, start with the customer in mind and use the
elements of Nostra that make the most sense to enhance the product for the customer. And if
there's something that could be built on Nostra, but it takes away from the experience or makes
the experience for the customer worse, don't fucking do it on Nostra. Don't make it an event
kind. Don't like, don't try and do it because Nostra, like that's cultish thinking. What you do
is because it makes sense for the customer and the business, get the business right first. And then
once you've fleshed out the product, once you've fleshed out the feature, once you, once you've
proven that it can deliver some value to the customer, to the end user, then later you can
turn that feature into a nip that others you can turn that into a standard then others can then
adopt so it's like make it work first prove that you have a business prove that you have a product
and then you know turn it into a nostril feature and that's something like you know people have
asked me many times they're like oh you know well is this part of your app built on nostril is this
part of your app nostril compatible i'm like well no because we don't even know whether this is
useful to users like we we're building it we need to validate that first we need to know
that the energy and the resources that we have,
which are very limited, we're a startup.
We have limited limited limited resources We need to know that this thing is actually going to move the needle and then fuck yeah we come and nostrify it So that my philosophy there I know some people don agree
with that, but I think as a business owner, my priority is making sure the business works and
make sure the customers are happy. My priority is not making sure Nostra survives. Nostra is bigger
than me. I need to focus on
what I can control, not
the thing that I can't control.
Yeah, absolutely.
I was asking you before
about the difference between a protocol
and a platform because
one thing that we have discussed
a lot in Bitcoin lately
and probably by the time you're watching this
I think there's a discussion of that
is the
war between
Bitcoin core and nuts
but there's also the protocol wars
that probably is not in the media as much as these things right now in Bitcoin.
Actually, I read a little bit of that in one of the articles in Substack that be on the feed.
So I want to talk a little bit about also how does Nostar compare to other protocols or platforms.
Like, you know, Mastodon uses, for example, ActivityPath.
BlueSky uses the AT protocol.
So ATProt, I don't know, what is the name?
Or BlueSky.
But also, how does Nostra compare to them?
And why do you think those misses the point of what Nostra tried to do?
I mean, whether they miss the point or not, I guess, is beyond my technical expertise, honestly.
We selfishly as an entrepreneur and us selfishly as a business and as a team,
if I'm being purely honest, we looked at Nostra and we found it simpler than the other stuff,
more open, so more permissionless.
we didn't have to fuck around with trying to build on it.
We liked the fact that Nostra was stateless.
I mean, it has some pros and cons, obviously,
but I think it's more pros than cons.
And sort of the tightness with Bitcoin was very important for us.
Like we didn't implement Bitcoin functionality into the app early on
because we wanted to, once again,
we wanted to find value outside of the Bitcoin echo chamber,
which quite honestly, from a content perspective, we didn't succeed.
but that being said bitcoin was always a very important piece to us we were always going to come
and build a wallet into atlantis and build zaps and all of that sort of thing so they were sort
of the reasons why we went with um with nostr one thing i will say though is i was writing a very
short article recently on the the difference between bitcoin and nostr and this this is
related to your point about the different protocols for identity i would argue that bitcoin the
implementation is more important than bitcoin the idea and what i mean by that is like bitcoin the
idea has been replicated 50 000 times with every shit coin in the world right so every shit coin
is like copying the idea so it's not the idea that matters you know and it's like you know you can
fork Bitcoin as many times as you want if you have a better version of the idea, but they don't
fucking matter. What matters is the implementation and the chain that goes all the way back to the
Genesis block. What matters is the node software that everyone's running and the fact that they're
all in sync. That's what matters. But with Nostr, I think it's the opposite way around.
I think the idea is more important than the implementation. And what I mean by that is
The idea of Nostra is an identity layer for the web where the identity is a bearer instrument or a public-private key pair that the user controls and can generate randomly.
That idea is more important.
Whether Nostra succeeds or not doesn't really matter in my opinion.
Or maybe I'll explain it this way.
If Bitcoin fails tomorrow, the world is fucked.
like that's a catastrophic disaster like if bitcoin fails creating a new bitcoin from scratch
fucking impossible it's not going to happen like that that happened once it's a zero to one moment
right if if bitcoin fails it is a catastrophic disaster for humankind because we have one shot
at sound money and it's the most important opportunity possible right if nostril fails
tomorrow what did we lose some content nada right we lost some content content is worthless in the
digital age yeah maybe we lost some reputations and stuff like that amongst some people but
honestly it's so small that it doesn't fucking matter and also the reputations are generally
tied to real people so you know i've been banned on twitter 10 times i come back i get a new account
i get all my followers back right so it doesn't matter so it's not like the cost of the cost of
losing one is completely different to the cost of losing the other and this is something i've
noticed in the nostril spaces people like orange pill purple pill orange pill purple pill it's like
oh yeah nostril and bitcoin are the same yes there's some relationship between the two but the
level of importance man is like fucking galaxies apart like bitcoin is a billion times more
important than nostril like nostril can come and go doesn't matter if nostril fails tomorrow another
implementation will be developed and another one will take off you know that that's perfectly
fucking fine and we as a business will pick the next uh great implementation of a digital layer
for identity for the web that's that's what we'll do but if bitcoin fails
jesus christ with all the problems yeah well now that you're talking about well finished earlier
so so what i'll finish on is you know there is other protocols that are um that are kind of
trying to deliver on a similar promise to Nostra.
I personally think that Nostra is the best implementation so far.
I think that it has the highest probability of winning,
but I'm also pragmatic and objective enough to admit
that it may not be the implementation that ultimately transforms the web
and acts as the digital layer for the new web.
But I hope it is because we've spent a shitload of energy building on there
And I hope it's the one that wins.
So, yeah.
No, I was just going to say that now that you mentioned this,
is that also I was just thinking that, for example,
in the other protocols, the thing is that in the end,
there's things like they have,
I think some of them have their own federations
that still is something that there are companies
that follow their own protocols.
And they try to be decentralized.
But as we use the word also in Bitcoin,
that compared to shitcoins that there are,
which means the central lines in name only, right?
In name only, yeah.
So, but the beauty of Nostra
is that you can actually pick your own algorithm
or protocol or whatever,
so you can check your own fit and time and whatever,
because it's pretty decentralized, right?
But yeah, besides that, I think another,
probably the most important thing
that we can lose in Nostra, in my opinion,
is the free speech somehow,
because in the other platform you can be banned.
But here in Nostra, I think not.
So whatever you say, you can say it and you won't be banned.
Either a content or an idea or anything.
But I don't know.
Maybe.
That's not entirely true because the content itself,
it's not hard to get the relays to delete your content if they want to.
I mean, I guess you could just run your own relay
if you really have content that's going to be censored.
But I don't know.
I'm not convinced that that's a big enough factor.
these days i just think enough people like at least maybe it's valid for a small small small
small small percentage of people um but i don't think it's valid for for a real market like that
is meaningful and maybe that's a contrarian view i i'm just no longer bullish on the censorship
resistance side of things i think censorship resistance is very important for money i don't
think it's important for social content all right well you mentioned also uh you talk a little bit
about Bitcoin and Nostra, but there's also another element nowadays that is AI.
So how do you think the three of them converge?
And well, what's actually happening there?
Yeah, so I think where they converge or where the similarities lie is that they are just
tools, right?
And I think everyone has a tendency to overhype each of these tools, right?
You know, people are like, oh, Bitcoin, Bitcoin is everything.
And look, economically speaking and socially speaking, Bitcoin is very fucking important.
I think of all of these things, Bitcoin is the most important.
It's a billion times more important than not sure.
And it's a hell of a lot more important than the AI shit.
That being said, Bitcoin is still fundamentally a tool.
If you, at least for me in the context of an entrepreneur, I'm looking at Bitcoin now more pragmatically in the sense that, hey, I'm running an events app.
and I want to enable hosts because hosts are my main user.
I want to enable hosts to quickly and easily and cheaply monetize their events.
So they should be able to create an event.
They should be able to spin up a wallet
and they should be able to get paid for tickets in 60 seconds.
Well, what faster way to do that than with Bitcoin?
You don't have to do fucking KYC, Fiat, fucking Rails
and all the bullshit that goes into creating an event
with something like Eventbrite or Luma or any of that.
Here you go.
Boom.
Create an event.
Ow.
It's so easy.
It's so beautiful.
It's so seamless.
It's 10 times better than the thing.
So Bitcoin tool number one.
Tool number two, Nostra.
We want to have a social layer in the event
because what happens when you go to an event?
You want to meet some people.
Well, then you want to connect with those people.
So instead of going to the event,
then at the event,
getting everyone to download Telegram or WhatsApp
and then get everyone in WhatsApp or Telegram
to share their end pubs
so they can follow each other on Nostra.
It's like fucking 10 different apps to try and have one experience.
And it's like, okay, you're at the event.
Which cafe do we go to?
What place do you – where's the Bitcoin accepting?
That's another app and Google Maps.
Fuck that.
Here with Atlantis, you've got the social graph in there.
You can see the attendees.
You can click follow all or you can follow who you want to follow.
And boom, you've got communication.
You've got the event and you've got the chat right in one place.
Boom, second tick, done.
So Nostra is a tool to make our events app better.
Now, number three, the AI piece.
For me, AI is not some fucking god in the circuits that is going to come alive and become sentient and rule the world and run everything.
No, that's like the nerds are out of their minds.
To me, AI is a tool and it's an automation tool.
It is a productivity enhancer.
So one way we're using AI, for example, is for building automated tests from a software
development side of things.
So in order to produce good software, you need to run as many technical automated tests
as possible to make sure all of your code is squeaky clean, working, doesn't create regressions
and doesn't fuck things up.
Well, instead of spending our developer time on that stuff, we run BugBot and it does it
for us.
Boom.
You've just saved probably an entire person's salary per month using an AI tool and you've sped things up.
That to me is a tick.
What's another way we're using AI?
Well, to populate the events on our discovery experience in the app, we go out and we have a bot that goes and pulls the events from Luma, from Meetup, from Eventbrite, from all these other places, tags them with interests.
So like this is a Bitcoin event.
This is a longevity event.
This is a running club.
This is whatever, blah, blah, blah.
And then it puts the events onto our app, which the host can then claim if they want to control the event on our app.
But people can discover.
So it's like on the other flip side, because a marketplace has two sides, right?
It has hosts and it has attendees.
Potential attendees can discover these events.
And if that person is a Bitcoiner, they can see all the cool Bitcoin events going on around the world on the app.
and even if the event is not hosted on our app,
people can click through,
it'll open up the other app,
it'll open up Meetup or Luma or something like that
and then they can register themselves over there.
So we're using it as an enhancer to the app.
But that's where like,
I spoke with Marty Bent yesterday
and we talked about this specifically.
There has not been,
for the last 10 years really or 10, 15 years,
consumer apps have been pretty dead, right?
Like everything has been like Slack and Jira and Atlassian
and everything's been sort of like B2B apps over the last decade.
The last great consumer apps were like Uber, right, and Airbnb.
That was sort of the last era of really great consumer applications.
Yeah, probably.
And yeah, what happened was since then,
the consumer applications got so big that they took so much market share,
like that they sort of closed it off.
I think we are at the precipice,
we're at the dawn of a new age for consumer applications
where small teams and startups like us have this new Bitcoin AI,
we can do things that previously would have required a team
of maybe 100 people to do.
Ten years ago to build what we want to build today,
to build a global events app with instant payments,
with a social layer, would have probably taken a team of 50 people
and $20 million, right?
Now we can do it at a fraction of the cost at much faster speed
because we have better tools.
And that's the way I see all of this.
It's like AI is not going to take over the world.
It's not going to change everything.
It is just another improvement in software.
And it's a significant improvement because we can do better marketing.
We can do better code.
We can move faster and we can create a better user experience.
Bitcoin gives us superior payments, makes our application global from day one.
And Nostra gives us a social layer.
Bam.
We have a fucking great events app that is better than Eventbrite, Meetup.com or anything else out there.
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Yeah, I want to pause a little bit on that and probably double click on the South Atlantis.
I want to talk a little bit more on that.
Because you're talking a lot about these things, but what inspired you to do all things?
You know, I always ask in this podcast, like if you have an origin moment for Bitcoin, but was there a single origin story for you or moment where it clicked all for you to develop this thing?
So two origin parts for Atlantis.
The first origin story was actually in Salvador in 2023.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
It was end of 2023.
I was walking around in El Salvador with my wife and we were looking for some coffee.
And I was looking on Google Maps.
and we found one place that was like 4.8 stars and the coffee sucked the next day we had another
place and it was like 4.9 um stars and the coffee sucked i was like fuck this shit and then there
was someone i can't remember who it was but they were local they were salvadoranian and they said um
go to this place and i looked it up on google i was like you sure it's good it's 4.4 stars they're
like no no trust me it's good just go there so we went there and the coffee was fucking fantastic
And what hit me was that like all of the shit that we see on Google Maps and TripAdvisor
and all the reviews and everything, it's all bullshit.
The real signal comes from your social network, comes from people you trust, people you know.
So then that's what hit me with the original incarnation of Atlantis.
And this maybe it was the aha moment, but it also probably made me build Atlantis too
broadly.
But the original idea for Atlantis was, hey, could we create a travel and discovery application with social graph information where anywhere you are in the world, you know, the places you find, the events you go to, the people you connect with and everything is influenced by your social graph.
So when you see a review or a rating from someone, it's from someone you know.
Then you know it's a real one, not some fake bullshit.
That was the original idea.
Now, that turned out, like, we still want to get there, but we have to pick very carefully what we do first and in what order, in what sequence, right?
So what we discovered, and this is the second aha moment, when we were in Prague a couple months ago for the BTC Prague conference, one of the things we had in the app was we had all of the satellite events were on Atlantis.
and what we found was people naturally used the events part of the app not because we marketed to
them not because we convinced them to use but because it was a tool and it solved the problem
which is hey i can find all the satellite events here on this one app so they used it and they
rsvp to the events and it was simple so what we realized was okay we think we can make the biggest
impact by building the best possible events app and add bitcoin payments add a social layer
and give it to event hosts like there is there is thousands of bitcoin meetups and bitcoin
communities around the world who are all using meetup.com which fucking sucks they're using
event price they're using luma they're using nomeo they're using whatsapp and telegram and all this
shit we want to give them a superior experience where they can even earn sats if they want to
charge for tickets and put it all on nostril and i think it's like the most compelling compelling
pitch it's super simple it's super narrow it's like it's perfect for the bitcoin community and
that's that's who we want to target so that was the second aha moment like in prague was hey let's
not build everything to start off with like let's focus on this first and then we can add shit later
absolutely and uh when if people want to try using it again uh because i have it on
well actually no it's not in beta anymore i think it's it's out in ios right i have ios you can yeah
you can download an ios exactly we still the test flight is still further ahead than the ios app but
yes it's on ios and you can download it oh okay okay because yeah i have it on test flight but
now i have it on ios but my question is that how can people get started they want to use it
yeah so the depends how they want to use it if if you're an event host the best way to do it is just
jump on the website. You can't create an event from the app just yet. The event is created from
the desktop experience. So if you're already on Nostro, you can log in with your extension. So
like Albi or Nostrox or Amber or whatever else is out there that is an extension. You log in,
click the plus button, click create an event. That's it. And it's very simple. It's just like
you would create an event for Meetup or Luma or anything like that. You create the event,
you can add co-hosts, you select the venue, put your banner image, select your interests,
Bitcoin, longevity, whatever you want to put in there, put it in there.
And then, yeah, create the event.
You can then share it to your Nostra feed, which then broadcast it to all of Nostra.
So people can see it all over the place, Primal, Damus, Amethyst, whatever.
And then you have a whole admin dashboard for people as they register.
You can see who they are.
When they register to your event, they auto follow your Nostra.
So if you're an event host and you want to build your Nostra profile, this is the fucking
best way to do it.
Every single time you run an event, you actually build your follower list because people automatically follow you.
So that's how you build your community on there.
So that's for hosts.
If you're an attendee, then I would argue the best thing to do is download the app.
Download the app, create a profile, select your interests.
We have a whole lot of interest in there.
So when you're selecting your interests, what you're doing is you're basically building like your own algorithm.
And then that will help you discover a couple of things.
It'll help you discover content that is right for you, places that are right for you, and events that are right for you.
Now, the current app still supports content, places, and events, but slowly by slowly, as I said, will diminish the importance of content and will elevate the importance of events.
So you have a really nice discovery experience that looks like Spotify for discovering events and for discovering places around events.
That's kind of the look.
Okay, perfect.
we're at now
we're right now in the middle of the podcast
we're going to continue talking about
Asset Atlantis because there's a lot of
like the experience economy and location
and some more stuff related to that
but I told you I have a game in the podcast
so my private guests have a question for my next guest
and you when we finish recording
you will have the opportunity to make a question for the next guest
so oh my god I have enough deja vu
because this is exactly what happened
the last season and just by coincidence.
So last season, I finished
the podcast with
Kiki. Probably you met her.
Yeah.
And the season 3,
in beginning season 4, I also
finished with Kiki.
Ha!
So it was funny because I started
the season and
Kiki made a question, the starting question.
So now she's doing the starting question again.
There you go.
Let's see what she got for me.
yeah so i'm gonna share where's kiki after long thinking long and hard my question is what famous
person do you think would have been or is secretly a bitcoiner and my example for myself is anthony
bardine so my one so they can be dead right yeah i can be dead yeah i mean totally tupac or steve
jobs would have been bitcoiners oh wow probably yeah why there's why i think tupac for example was
very interested in justice righteousness he had the kind of personality that was um that was a man
of virtue like i actually even made a tweet about this a couple years ago i said tupac would have
been a bitcoiner and biggie would have been a shitcoiner really yeah man so um so that was uh
that's one and then i think steve jobs also has a similar kind of character i think steve jobs
likes to pierce through all the fucking bullshit and he's he he loves sort of the idea of he loved
the idea i should say of things that were elegant things that were just like solid you know no sort
of like frills and crap and all this sort of stuff and like bitcoin is pure pristine money
and he was also the kind of personality who i think wouldn't have been afraid to just say you
go fuck yourself like it's bitcoin so yeah they're my they're my two so you think that he had on board
bitcoin so far right now in in our iphones and all the the apple products probably actually yeah
yeah yeah yeah i think so he was uh he was the kind of person who would have like broken the
mold he didn't take shit from nobody so i think so like steve is rolling in his grave right now
with what's happened with apple man like there's been nothing new since he died nothing nothing
nothing fucking new like apple should have had a apple tv there should have been an apple car
there should have been an apple fucking like oven and all of our appliances in the house should
have been apple everything should have worked but here we are dealing with shit everywhere um and
we're still stuck with fucking ipad iphone and the laptop like nothing new drives me crazy
yeah one last thing about apple team cook if you're watching this probably not but if you're
watching this. Please change the
configuration of the mouse. To
charge it, you need to plug it
in the belly,
like here, so you cannot use it.
It's just a design.
You just need to change.
Where's the USB-C port?
But, yeah.
Anyways,
I'll continue with Nostar and South Atlantis.
We're also watching
a new way of location independence.
I don't know, Borderless Living.
I don't know.
also people living abroad.
So my question is, like, with all that we're facing with new economies,
now they say that also in South Atlantis,
you can build your own events and everything.
So events and...
For me, you know, what's more than events?
I think it's a place where actually people can collide and talk
because you will be present there.
It's not just chatting in the internet, like, in Twitter or whatever, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you also mentioned that now that we have these new three tools, Bitcoin, Nostra, and AI, what does it mean that for these new generations that, well, you already mentioned a little bit that they can build more stuff, but not just in Bitcoin related.
let's say this is a question for people that are not precisely on the Bitcoin space, but how can
they take advantage? Think about it as people that, because I know that people, some people in El
Salvador, not just in El Salvador, but here in the podcast for the first time, and they hear like,
all right, they're talking something similar, but I don't get it quite well. So how can take
advantage in my real life of these kind of tools? Yeah. So let's start with this idea of like the
world has gotten smaller and faster right like we're all connected online you know we're sort of
couple degrees of separation from each other um you know you can be in salvador today in brazil
tomorrow in bali next week in japan australia like it's just a flight away but when you land
you're going to know people because you're connected to them on nostril twitter or instagram
or something like that it's like the world is smaller you know and people people live this kind
of lifestyle they go to different conferences like i've been to probably 50 conferences and
there's probably people that i've seen at almost every single one of those 50 conferences like i
see them all the time like canute or giacomo or this and it's like hey how you doing again
um like you've sort of got that part is like that the way we live like travel and movement and
mobility is a is kind of like a lifestyle now like people work remotely like ever since the
whole lockdowns thing like the way we live the way we work um the way we live the way we live
the way we work it's completely changed and we have and this isn't with everybody but there's a
growing cohort of people who have some level of location independence right like they can have
multiple home bases they can move around they can be mobile so i think that's one sort of pillar to
to think about the second pillar is what i call sort of the rise of the experience economy which
you sort of alluded to with like not just events but kind of like meeting up in meet space is the
world is more connected online but people have never felt more disconnected i agree like so
there's this like huge desire for um for people to come together and to meet like i don't mind
jumping on a podcast or speaking to someone on zoom or something like that but bro it is a hundred
times, it is a thousand times better to catch up with you in real life and sit down and hang out,
right? Like we are physical beings. It means the world. So in the context of what I'm building here
with Atlantis, we're sort of shifting the focus now. It's like, okay, we want to get people off
their phones. I want to get people into the real world. And this is what I'm calling the experience
economy. Like you experience events, you experience travel, you experience going to places and
checking out cool cafes and cool parties and cool restaurants, or if it's just a fucking,
a cool beach that you want to go to with the friends and just hang out, like,
this is what I'm interested in. So for me, that's sort of like the, the, the mission or the vision
that I'm trying to build for, like the world has changed, like mobility and location independence
is more important, but we're more disconnected than ever. We want to do stuff in real life.
So where all of those pieces of the puzzle come together is kind of where the product is.
And I truly think we're onto something here.
Yeah, absolutely.
Also, I think you mentioned here in Barcelona, because you talk about this, about the three Cs in your panel, our connection, community and creation.
How do they shape in our culture?
And when I'm talking about our culture now, I'm talking about in our culture.
yeah i mean this is related to exactly what i said like people but what people human beings
really want is that they want to build a community like the whole sovereign individual
thesis is bullshit because no one no one is an individual like we're we are tribes we're
community we're social creatures you know and as part of that community what holds it together is
the connection we feel um you know and this is another thing that people get wrong i think is
they look for like-minded people but what they should be looking for is like valued people that's
more important. Like if you get like-minded, you get a bunch of people who think the same,
but maybe they don't share the same values. But what you really want is people who value the same
things, but think differently. They're multi variant minded, but like valued. So that's
connection. And then third is, this is sort of part of the curation I view as the antidote
to noise So when you live in a world where anything that you want from an information perspective is just the prompt to chat GPT away like if you can just google anything like if you can just open up google maps and see a
fucking million places you don't have value there now now you're drowning in a sea of noise so what
you really want now is curation you want something where like if you're going to go to a place if
you're going to do something if you're going to have a suggestion you want someone that you trust
or someone that you know to have told you like a list and that's why you see on instagram these
days there is how many thousands or hundreds of thousands of accounts now that are kind of like
curation or tastemaker accounts you know they create like oh these are the best 10 places in
Bali to go to this is the best thing to do here like what are these people doing they're curating
but the tool Instagram is not great for curation because all you can do is do a you know a reel
and then someone saves that reel and forgets about it right so I think we can do that a little bit
better with um with tools like Nostra so I think yeah the three C's community connection curation
I think that's hyper, hyper important for human beings in general, especially in the digital age where we are more disconnected, more distracted, more alone, all of these things.
Like this is the antidote to this stuff.
Yeah.
You know, I was thinking about that.
I remember when I started the podcast, I was talking with a lot of the guests that come to Bitcoiners.
And we were talking about, you know what, how do we bring Bitcoin to the mainstream?
now bitcoin is becoming mainstream thanks to you know sabato but also trump and also the
now the bitcoin treasury companies blah blah so eventually bitcoin it's in the mouth of people
so i have now the same question to you but in nostril how do we bring this nostril to to the
mainstream we we do it by not talking about nostril by building seriously by by building cool
products where nostril is just a tool in the stack that's it like i don't it's and honestly
it's the same answer for bitcoin you bitcoin even today like yeah sure more people are talking about
it and it's become more normalized but it's still in most people's mind yeah we're still really early
but it's still in most people's minds bitcoin lives in the category of uh investment vehicle
or speculative instrument or something like that.
It's still not money, right?
Maybe for 1% of 1% of us it is,
but for most people, it's not money yet.
So, you know, when Bitcoin, like, I'll tell you how these win.
In the next 5, 10 years,
we're going to see really cool products get built,
whether it's a travel app, whether it's a SaaS tool like Slack,
whether it's an Airbnb app, whether it's a new competitor, Uber, whatever.
Like you're going to see new products and there's going to be two things in there that come standard.
Bitcoin is a payments mechanism and there'll be some sort of social element in there that makes the application better.
So you'll see events apps, which is what we're doing.
Right.
So you'll see that.
Now, none of these companies will be Bitcoin companies or Nostra companies.
They're just going to be events company, travel company, transport company, communications company, whatever.
They're going to be actual businesses, but they just use Nostra and Bitcoin in the stack.
That's how we take this shit mainstream.
Not by talking about fucking Nostra and Bitcoin and why Nostra is better and all this shit.
No, the devs will come, they'll build it because it's superior.
Simple as that.
Yeah, it's like I was thinking like also when we use the internet, we don't think in the protocols, right?
We don't think about the HTTPS.
We just use it, but we don't think what is behind that.
imagine if there was a HTTPS podcast
probably could have been
if we had podcasts by that time
probably
different times
I had a question in mind
for you what surprised you
or excited you the most building on this thing
actually working on it
Look, for me, it's the, you know,
more people know me for my writing than building stuff,
but I've always been a builder.
I like building and I really enjoy working with the team,
with the product guys, you know, working with customers,
talking to them, all this sort of stuff.
For me, I guess it's not so much a, you know,
maybe one surprise is I was more bullish on the places element of our app
where pins and maps and all that sort of stuff.
But what we found was that more people wanted a really good events app.
And maybe that's the big surprise.
I was surprised that there is no good events app with Bitcoin native ticketing.
That's the fucking surprise.
There's nowhere I can go right now and create a meetup
and make $5 tickets in Bitcoin.
It's crazy.
It doesn't exist.
That's probably the surprise, I must say.
Forget all the other bullshit that I said.
That's the surprise.
yeah like and that's like and the biggest surprise is that i didn't fucking realize this earlier like
i'm an idiot i was sitting there building all this other shit and i was like wait a minute this is
staring me right in the face so here i am we're gonna build the best possible events up in the
world and it's gonna be bitcoin native and we're gonna orange pill a bunch of people in the process
that's cool hey we're gonna start wrap it up because i think we have just like 10 minutes or
or less but yeah before that you know this is salvador and bitcoin podcast and you have been
el salvador several times so if you can share a little bit about your experience there and because
you have been there a couple of times you can you have seen whatever you have seen the good bad
progress or not because i also encourage to people to not just read in the media to ask people who
has been the salvador and to share their experience either good or bad whatever i just want you to
to share uh yeah your experience there personal and also in the events the big the big standout
for me for salvador is the progress that it's made over the last couple years so when i first
went there it was yeah 2021 but it was um in july so it was before bitcoin law came into effect
it was it was kind of right after the announcement so i went there it was the first time
and yeah it was like you know pretty rough you know things you know things haven't been cleaned
up yet but it was i was already a little bit used to it because i was traveling through latin america
a little bit so you know to me it was just sort of latin america but you know maybe a little bit
more rough whatever but then one thing i something i noticed that each time i came back i've been
there four times now it improved improved improved improved so to me the sort of the big takeaway is
that things are on the up. And that's not the same with every other place. Many, many other places
are actually getting worse as time goes by. So that's sort of one thing. What I will say, though,
for the people who just assume that means it's everything is perfect. It's like, no, fuck no.
Like Salvador is starting from very far behind. So even though everything's on the up,
it's going to take a long time for all sorts of things to get fixed. I know lots of people go
there and they're like overly optimistic they they you know believe everything they see on twitter or
podcasts or this and that and they think like oh i'm coming to paradise and then all of a sudden
they can't get this and they can't do that and they can't like or one thing that drives me crazy
in el salvador is the fucking roads man holy shit like no like i always say that it's like stevie
wonder built the roads like with his eyes closed or something like you know you you take one fucking
turn left that's wrong bro you'll be driving around for another three hours to try and get
back to like where you're supposed to go to drives me nuts so that's going to take a long time to get
fixed and i think the reality is people need to go there with just with some humility and say hey
it's improving but it's a long way from perfect and you know particularly if you come from like
a previous western world country like you're going to have a certain level of expectations
that are not going to be met if you don't understand that.
So you go to El Salvador for progress, not for perfection.
And that, to me, is very important for people to realize.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, no, and actually I was asking you this because at first,
of course, I read Coiners.co.
I asked, can you share the positive side of El Salvador?
but then I get comments back
yeah if you ask this way
you're talking just the positive things
and I was like yeah but I also
want people to know that
it's not perfect but
we're in the progress we're in the right path
so what I'm trying
to say here is that
ask to people that go to
El Salvador and you will see the progress
the actual progress is not
because we also have a lot of
shit thrown to El Salvador that
you know that
well related to politics
or whatever or also that
Bitcoin failed. There's a lot of shit, you know
but the best way to
know the truth is to ask into other people
traveling on Sabbath. So that's why I also
like to
ask the experiencer. Some people tell
me that I don't like Pupusa
and I was like, I'm just kidding.
No, but
I mean, the reality of it
and what I encourage and I always say it
actually in most of the episodes is that
yeah, I agree. We come from behind
but the good part is that now we have the tools and the opportunities to build so yeah we're
building but it will take a long road rome wasn't built in one year or one day you know so
dude people are so fucking impatient these days man like we live in the tiktok generation where
everyone wants everything it's like fucking hell man you know like it takes years to turn a business
around like go try and turn a fucking country around like it's a it's a process and this is
like people always piss me off when they do shit like that they're like oh yeah but you know
bitcoin's been around for 15 years it's like motherfucker bitcoin's designed to be around for
a thousand years like hold your horses like bitcoin wins in a hundred like and it's the
same thing with the country it's like oh you know bukele's been around for four years and blah it's
like yeah bro four years is nothing nothing yeah it takes time so shut the fuck up and if you think
you can do it better yourself go do it otherwise shut up so like it just drives me crazy like the
sort of the keyboard warriors who've got a lot to say but don't actually do anything
yeah absolutely my last question is and we're gonna we're gonna finish the podcast i actually
it was going to be mine but i just remind that last season i recorded an episode and we were
supposed to have that episode so someone made a question for you and i'm looking up for this
because it was related to bitcoin and also to quantum computer i i remind that it was
quite interesting so when quantum computing is here and we know that the old you know pre-2010
wallets are going to be exposed but they haven't moved do we as bitcoiners have a responsibility
to move those for them or do we just say tough we shouldn't touch them but potentially a hacker
drains those wallets?
It's a very well-framed question, actually.
Yeah, I can give you a time to think about it.
It's not just the usual bullshit quantum computing question
about is this thing going to break everything, blah, blah,
takes into consideration the fact that, yeah, at some point,
some of those early addresses are going to be susceptible
to being reverse-engineered.
Do we have a duty to move those coins?
I don't think so. My gut feeling is that it's not our duty. I think it's whoever can get access to those coins is going to get access to those coins and they're going to do what they want with them. And those coins will end up back in circulation, basically. And that will create economic velocity and it'll probably have some impact on the price and purchasing power of Bitcoin as they come back into circulation.
but yeah I think the answer is
no we don't have a responsibility to move those
coins for anyone else they are what they are
and it's how the coins will come back
into circulation because if someone like if you think
about it someone's gonna take them
quote unquote steal them
but then they'll use them so those
coins will come back around and
that's just what's gonna happen
alright that's
very good and interesting
answer alright yeah my last
question will be like what's next for
so atlantis and astor what can we explain okay so the next thing is we are going to be the official
side event app for adopting bitcoin so all of the satellite events yeah so all the satellite events
everything's going to happen on atlantis okay um so i don't know if you're going to be running an
event there but you just created on atlantis you can add it to the adopting bitcoin calendar
and off we go we are going to also partner with a bunch of other conferences so amsterdam
LaBitComp, BGC Mina, Bitcoin Japan, all these sort of things.
So we're basically one of our strategies to be the satellite event partner for all of these conferences, number one.
Number two is we want to get every single meetup that is a Bitcoin meetup in the world on Atlantis.
So I would love an introduction.
If you know the meetup organizers in Salvador, around the place, please introduce me.
I'd love to get them to getoffmeetup.com.
We have several.
Yeah, yeah.
let's get them all on Atlantis, man.
That's the place.
That's my mission over the next six months.
I want every single Bitcoin meetup,
every single Bitcoin conference around the world
to be on Atlantis.
Give us a beautiful marketplace of events
so that anyone can find them,
anyone can attend, anyone can host.
It'll be amazing.
All right, perfect.
What about Barcelona?
I know that you have Jordi here,
but I don't know if Jordi is working
with the guys in Barcelona.
Yeah, so he's got one of the meetups,
because I know there was like a fork
with the Bitcoin meetups in Barcelona.
So one of them is on Atlantis.
The other one hopefully will come soon.
Okay, perfect.
And yeah, I think we're going to,
because I also one of the organizers
of the Barcelona conference,
you know, the ones that we made this year.
So hopefully next year we're going to have it again.
Fuck yeah, let's do it.
We will help you set up the calendar.
By next year, we'll have an agenda feature on this.
So that way you as a conference organizer
have end-to-end support.
You'll have ticketing, agenda, side events, everything in one place.
And you'll be able to spin that up in 10 minutes.
You don't have to fuck around with a website and all the other bullshit.
You can have your unique link and you can run your whole event there, Bitcoin ticketing, all of it, all in one place.
It'll be so good.
Perfect, man.
So excited for this.
All right, man.
Vesky, Alex, thank you for coming for the podcast.
Thank you for being the first guest on the new season.
Yeah, thank you, man, for your time.
Gracias, amigo.
I appreciate the time.
I appreciate the questions.
I appreciate all of it,
man.
I look forward to catching up,
doing some stuff together.
It's going to be amazing.
Yeah,
absolutely.
All right,
guys,
we're ready to start the season.
See you next week.
Ciao.