1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,480
There's nothing that's free, people.

2
00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:02,660
Like, there's nothing that's free.

3
00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:03,680
Instagram is not free.

4
00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:04,760
Twitter is not free.

5
00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:05,520
None of this is free.

6
00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,960
In fact, you're expending the most valuable thing that you have in your entire life, which

7
00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:10,360
is time.

8
00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,400
And you're giving them your time.

9
00:00:13,580 --> 00:00:14,400
Like, huge mistake.

10
00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:15,000
Huge mistake.

11
00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:15,400
What are you doing?

12
00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:16,380
And I'm guilty of this.

13
00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:17,160
I'm totally guilty of this.

14
00:00:17,780 --> 00:00:20,180
So they're going to continue to harvest that as long as they can.

15
00:00:20,220 --> 00:00:20,780
They're not going to stop.

16
00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:21,380
Why would they stop?

17
00:00:21,460 --> 00:00:22,060
It makes them rich.

18
00:00:22,220 --> 00:00:23,280
They're definitely going to keep doing that.

19
00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:28,720
But we have the ability to fork off of that nonsense and to go build something that's more

20
00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:29,060
meaningful.

21
00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,180
You know, it's like America the idea versus America what it is right now.

22
00:00:33,460 --> 00:00:35,480
You can't kill the idea of America.

23
00:00:35,820 --> 00:00:41,860
They've captured it physically, but they can't kill the mind virus idea of what America is.

24
00:00:42,020 --> 00:00:45,580
And so we have to go continue to build that elsewhere.

25
00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,280
I guess what I'm trying to say is it's going to be both, right?

26
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:48,900
We're in a fight.

27
00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,700
We're in a fight right now between the unconscious and the conscious.

28
00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:52,480
I say that.

29
00:00:52,620 --> 00:00:53,720
I'm not trying to be arrogant.

30
00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,080
I'm just saying like Matrix, you know what I mean?

31
00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,960
Like he wakes up and he looks around and all these people are in the pods and they're just like,

32
00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,080
You know, it's this what's happening right now.

33
00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,160
You know, there are people who are watching the housewives of Beverly Hills.

34
00:01:04,320 --> 00:01:05,240
Like, what?

35
00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:06,060
What are you doing?

36
00:01:06,300 --> 00:01:06,980
What are we doing?

37
00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,680
So it really comes down to the individual, I guess, is what I'm saying.

38
00:01:09,740 --> 00:01:10,320
We get to choose.

39
00:01:10,700 --> 00:01:16,380
I am not giving you $15 and then watching 10 minutes of this and being like, that was trash.

40
00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:17,180
That like that.

41
00:01:17,420 --> 00:01:18,900
That's a horrible trade.

42
00:01:18,900 --> 00:01:20,380
Like, this is a bad business.

43
00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:26,180
You know, back in the day when movie tickets were like six bucks or I could go to Blockbuster and rent a movie for like five bucks.

44
00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:26,480
Okay.

45
00:01:26,700 --> 00:01:27,580
You know, all right.

46
00:01:27,580 --> 00:01:32,660
but digitally like i don't want to take that risk so if i can just split the value up into tiny

47
00:01:32,660 --> 00:01:38,780
little chunks i'm much more likely to be to take a chance on a movie if the risk is a half a penny

48
00:01:38,780 --> 00:01:44,440
or five pennies or 10 cents or whatever way more like fine no problem i'm not doing 15 bucks i'm

49
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,800
sorry i don't care that this is a studio movie like i'm just i don't i'm frustrated by that

50
00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:49,260
experience

51
00:01:49,260 --> 00:01:59,260
so

52
00:02:12,060 --> 00:02:17,660
well now that we're talking about indie half and talking a little bit about the problem also i want

53
00:02:17,660 --> 00:02:25,920
I want to get a little bit more, let's say, technical because people probably are thinking, okay, but how this actually works.

54
00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,600
So I have been researching as a good Bitcoiner.

55
00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:29,420
How about your website?

56
00:02:29,420 --> 00:02:33,000
And so you propose Indie Hub about the solution and also Bitcoin.

57
00:02:33,220 --> 00:02:37,760
So first I want to ask you about why Bitcoin, although you've touched a little bit about this.

58
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:43,440
But also I have seen something that's called the stream money like data.

59
00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:45,260
So what does that mean?

60
00:02:45,260 --> 00:02:54,160
And how do per second payments, revenue splits, I don't know, direct distributions empower creators or individual filmmakers?

61
00:02:54,500 --> 00:02:57,420
Well, it actually gives them some kind of sovereignty, right?

62
00:02:57,540 --> 00:02:58,760
Yeah. Yeah. Great question.

63
00:02:58,900 --> 00:03:04,660
So I guess we can attack the why Bitcoin and then feel free to get me back on track when I forget the other questions.

64
00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,280
Bitcoin. Why Bitcoin? Because Bitcoin is permissionless.

65
00:03:10,780 --> 00:03:13,420
So right now on IndieHub's website, right?

66
00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,060
So right now we're in the beta version.

67
00:03:15,060 --> 00:03:18,280
We're in the very early version of this, and it is admittedly centralized.

68
00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:26,620
So interesting.

69
00:03:27,100 --> 00:03:27,640
Sorry about that.

70
00:03:27,780 --> 00:03:28,880
The app just totally crashed.

71
00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,800
But now that I'm on the web browser version, it's got a totally different gamma setting on the camera.

72
00:03:32,980 --> 00:03:33,900
Man, so annoying.

73
00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:37,480
Whatever.

74
00:03:37,900 --> 00:03:38,100
Okay.

75
00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:40,460
Yeah, it just hard crashed.

76
00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:41,220
Take two.

77
00:03:41,220 --> 00:03:42,000
Why Bitcoin?

78
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:43,940
You said like how many have a structure?

79
00:03:43,940 --> 00:03:47,060
how is it not different on ethics, but where is the, what the different comes?

80
00:03:47,060 --> 00:03:52,260
And then you started talking about streaming like per second, if somebody is watching.

81
00:03:52,260 --> 00:03:57,300
Yeah. Yeah. Because I want to, I want to lead this in, and so in the end of the road that I

82
00:03:57,300 --> 00:04:01,860
want to take is that what are the obstacles that the indie filmmakers face today and why

83
00:04:01,860 --> 00:04:05,940
is good idea to use Bitcoin and Indie Hub? So that's why I asked you that question.

84
00:04:05,940 --> 00:04:12,820
Perfect. Yeah. Okay. So, okay. So, so we use, we use Bitcoin because

85
00:04:12,820 --> 00:04:13,980
because Bitcoin is permissionless.

86
00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,680
You know, the way that the website works right now,

87
00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,740
let's say we're not using Bitcoin.

88
00:04:20,840 --> 00:04:21,680
Let's say we're using Stripe.

89
00:04:21,900 --> 00:04:23,560
Let's say we're using a credit card processor.

90
00:04:25,620 --> 00:04:28,980
They get to dictate what payments go across their rails.

91
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:30,480
And if Stripe boots me out,

92
00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,420
if Stripe with a P boots me out,

93
00:04:32,580 --> 00:04:33,740
I don't have a lot of recourse.

94
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,120
On Bitcoin, if the current processing company

95
00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,560
that I'm using decides to boot me off their network,

96
00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:41,020
I can just go use another one.

97
00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:42,440
I can just plug in with a different thing.

98
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:47,080
It's open source. It's free. It's permissionless. The thing that matters more than anything is the

99
00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:52,220
flow of capital, the flow of money, the flow of attention. Like I can't pay my rent on likes,

100
00:04:52,580 --> 00:04:56,620
you know, like, cool. I got a million likes on YouTube on this thing. Like that doesn't mean I

101
00:04:56,620 --> 00:05:00,920
get to go continue to make movies. That doesn't mean much to me. So the thing that matters the

102
00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:08,060
most is, is that the payment system is accessible and decentralized and that we can plug into it

103
00:05:08,060 --> 00:05:13,260
whenever we need to. The way that the system works now is we basically, for every second that

104
00:05:13,260 --> 00:05:19,220
an audience member is watching a filmmaker's film, we're calculating that revenue. I forget if it,

105
00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,200
before it cut, I think I had explained that it's centralized, right? Like we're serving the data.

106
00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:27,180
Did you guys hear that? Okay. So we're serving the data. We're serving the films. That's really

107
00:05:27,180 --> 00:05:30,900
not different than the current scheme. The major difference that I'm focused on with this beta

108
00:05:30,900 --> 00:05:36,440
version is that the payments is fair and as decentralized as possible. Filmmakers, generally

109
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,960
speaking, especially independent filmmakers are not, there's not, there's not accountants,

110
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,660
there's not bookkeepers, there's not lawyer. When you, when you finish a movie, you're at

111
00:05:43,660 --> 00:05:47,500
the 50 yard line, you have to now go sell that movie. That's a whole nother career. That's a

112
00:05:47,500 --> 00:05:51,980
whole nother, you know, group of talent. There's a whole nother category of skill that you have to

113
00:05:51,980 --> 00:05:57,060
figure out how to learn. And it's, it's makes it very difficult. So if I, if I'm lucky enough to

114
00:05:57,060 --> 00:06:00,740
have finished, let's say a documentary on Bitcoin and I go to Netflix and they decide to license it

115
00:06:00,740 --> 00:06:05,660
from me, which is rare that you, that you get a licensing deal that would even remotely cover the

116
00:06:05,660 --> 00:06:09,940
cost of the budget, like rarely happens, but let's say I did. I am now, now I'm still tasked

117
00:06:09,940 --> 00:06:13,380
with, okay, I got to audit it. I got to figure out how many views it has, which they don't tell

118
00:06:13,380 --> 00:06:17,860
you on Netflix, some other platforms they do. But then when that revenue comes in, I now, okay,

119
00:06:17,860 --> 00:06:22,620
I got to check to my movie LLC, but now I got to take the revenue that's in there and I got to

120
00:06:22,620 --> 00:06:26,900
distribute that revenue according to the operating agreement that I, that I created when I started

121
00:06:26,900 --> 00:06:31,980
the movie. I got to pay the EP back. I got to like, and these get very complicated. You know,

122
00:06:31,980 --> 00:06:41,680
For instance, music rights are an absolute nightmare in the film business because for every song that you want to get the rights to, you have two different sides.

123
00:06:41,780 --> 00:06:43,700
You have two different legal sides of that song.

124
00:06:43,780 --> 00:06:45,080
You have masters and you have publishing.

125
00:06:45,340 --> 00:06:48,980
And on either side of those, there could be like 15 people involved.

126
00:06:49,340 --> 00:06:50,160
Maybe it's one person.

127
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:51,820
Maybe it's people and a company.

128
00:06:51,820 --> 00:06:54,480
I'm just making this up to make a point.

129
00:06:54,620 --> 00:06:56,640
But let's say I want to go get a Led Zeppelin song.

130
00:06:57,100 --> 00:06:58,900
And, okay, I got to deal with masters and publishing.

131
00:06:58,900 --> 00:07:02,140
And so obviously they have massive record labels that I have to negotiate with.

132
00:07:02,220 --> 00:07:08,480
But let's say, you know, whoever like John Bonham, right now, I also have to deal with John Bonham's estate because he's dead.

133
00:07:08,660 --> 00:07:13,560
So who who took over the rights to his revenue after his death?

134
00:07:13,620 --> 00:07:15,380
Well, let's what if he had like 15 kids?

135
00:07:15,900 --> 00:07:17,260
Now we got to deal with like 15 kids.

136
00:07:17,820 --> 00:07:21,420
Complicated worse than the set of lights after Christmas that you take.

137
00:07:21,420 --> 00:07:27,780
so that's actually the real the real reason why uh now that james gome is using a score instead of

138
00:07:27,780 --> 00:07:33,660
his famous music list in the films as well there's it's i mean if i if i'm picking up what you're

139
00:07:33,660 --> 00:07:38,080
throwing down it's it's it's why prince was the artist formerly known as prince you know because

140
00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,400
because the whole the way the business works is he didn't have the rights to his music and he was

141
00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:45,460
like fuck you i'm gonna they're like you can't use the name prince he's like i am prince okay fine

142
00:07:45,460 --> 00:07:49,240
the artist formerly known as right so all this is a nightmare right if you're just like one dude and

143
00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,320
I made a doc on Bitcoin and I'm like trying to like, you know, go about my life or whatever.

144
00:07:52,380 --> 00:07:56,980
Like, good luck, bro. So what I'm trying to solve is let's create some payment splits. Let's automate

145
00:07:56,980 --> 00:08:03,900
the process of payments for filmmakers. It makes it a lot easier when you're at the end of the

146
00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:10,040
project to just say, hey, you're a great actor. I'm gonna give you 5%. Okay. It's gonna be simple.

147
00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:15,060
We're just gonna type it in 5%. Boom. Every second of attention, you're gonna get 5% of that.

148
00:08:15,340 --> 00:08:19,220
You're gonna get 5% of the value of the attention that is given to your film. And I

149
00:08:19,220 --> 00:08:22,260
and it makes it easier. I can go, I can talk to anybody I want. I can say the sound guy,

150
00:08:22,380 --> 00:08:25,860
like, hey, I can't pay your day rate. I can't pay a thousand bucks a day, but I'll give you

151
00:08:25,860 --> 00:08:29,300
500 bucks a day and I'll give you 1%. I'm like, okay, that's an easier negotiation.

152
00:08:29,820 --> 00:08:38,960
So it solves the complexity of distributing revenue and it solves the centralization risk

153
00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:45,880
of if you're not saying what they want you to say, they're going to cut you off from the

154
00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,700
payment system. We've already experienced this through all of COVID. Bitcoin is the most

155
00:08:49,700 --> 00:08:56,780
decentralized way to do that. If Netflix creates their own coin or you go to Mark Cuban's coin,

156
00:08:56,900 --> 00:09:05,160
there's a couple of movie coins out, you're beholden to their whole worldview. That doesn't

157
00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:10,060
solve the problem at all. That's more of the same problem. Bitcoin solves that. Right now,

158
00:09:10,180 --> 00:09:14,200
we use, it's a centralized service mostly because educating every filmmaker in the world about

159
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,500
Bitcoin is excruciating and it's going to take time. And they just want to upload their movie

160
00:09:18,500 --> 00:09:21,720
and get paid and do it in the easiest way possible. So I'm solving for that. Audience

161
00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,940
members are the same thing. The overwhelming majority of people don't have lightning wallets.

162
00:09:25,020 --> 00:09:27,640
They don't use Bitcoin. They don't know how to get it. They don't know how to spend it. So fine.

163
00:09:27,700 --> 00:09:31,180
I'll take your credit card. You can pay me a monthly. That's fine. No big deal.

164
00:09:32,020 --> 00:09:36,740
But where we're going and the ultimate vision of this is that once people have the ability

165
00:09:36,740 --> 00:09:43,120
to easily manage an identity online and have a wallet full of sats, that they can connect that

166
00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:49,180
wallet full of sats directly to that film and the filmmaker's cap table and either buy it and stream

167
00:09:49,180 --> 00:09:53,080
the sats all at once, pay the sats all at once or stream it so you don't have to take the risk

168
00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:57,900
renting it. And those sats are streamed on a per segment or per second basis. So what I'm getting

169
00:09:57,900 --> 00:10:02,900
at is ideally IndieHub is not, I don't want to be involved in the payment processing business.

170
00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,660
I'm not really interested in that. I'm doing that right now just because it's easy, but I'm trying

171
00:10:06,660 --> 00:10:11,800
to get the boats to a different place where the audience is as directly connected to the filmmaker

172
00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:16,680
as they can possibly be. And then what we haven't talked about yet is the raising capital side of

173
00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:20,520
things. We touched on it briefly with publicly traded companies, Disney, Netflix, where they're

174
00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,260
getting their money. They're borrowing it from investment banks at nothing percent, and they're

175
00:10:24,260 --> 00:10:28,540
creating whatever propaganda they want to create to brainwash everybody with borrowed money that's

176
00:10:28,540 --> 00:10:32,960
free. What I would like to see is the ability for savvy audience members, or what I would call

177
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,200
tastemakers, people who are really, maybe they're not professional filmmakers, but they have

178
00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:50,028
incredible taste And they can be like this filmmaker is going to hit this filmmaker is going to hit I give them a thousand bucks I give them 10 bucks I give them a million bucks whatever So you have an ecosystem of three parts You have investors audience members and filmmakers

179
00:10:50,408 --> 00:10:55,148
When you have that, those three things, the flywheel can go, the business can jumpstart itself,

180
00:10:55,148 --> 00:10:58,368
and we can go from there. Okay. And that was the Bitcoin question. What were the other ones?

181
00:10:59,088 --> 00:11:06,108
Yeah, it was very technical. What does extreme money like data mean? And how do per second

182
00:11:06,108 --> 00:11:09,048
payments, revenue splits, and direct distribution power creators?

183
00:11:09,248 --> 00:11:09,988
Okay, great question.

184
00:11:10,168 --> 00:11:12,768
So streaming money like we stream data.

185
00:11:12,768 --> 00:11:17,688
So the way that data is sent across the internet is not in one large package.

186
00:11:18,108 --> 00:11:24,088
If I send you a terabyte file, it's not like a helicopter comes and just drops it, you

187
00:11:24,088 --> 00:11:28,948
know, and then through your roof, you know, it splits it up into tiny little chunks called

188
00:11:28,948 --> 00:11:29,388
packets.

189
00:11:29,448 --> 00:11:31,128
And we blast those out.

190
00:11:31,228 --> 00:11:32,308
It's just light, right?

191
00:11:32,868 --> 00:11:34,528
That's why it's called streaming.

192
00:11:34,748 --> 00:11:36,048
We're streaming the data.

193
00:11:36,108 --> 00:11:45,508
Well, if you can chop value up in the same way that we chop data up, now we can stream the money as well.

194
00:11:46,048 --> 00:11:49,208
And there's a number of benefits to this that are outside of filmmaking.

195
00:11:49,348 --> 00:11:59,088
But from a filmmaking perspective, the way that I see it is that one of the major, the obvious answer to this is that it reduces the risk of rentals.

196
00:11:59,088 --> 00:12:01,228
Like I don't rent things cause I'm not going to,

197
00:12:01,428 --> 00:12:06,868
I am not giving you $15 and then watching 10 minutes of this and being like,

198
00:12:06,928 --> 00:12:07,528
that was trash.

199
00:12:07,648 --> 00:12:08,308
Like that,

200
00:12:08,408 --> 00:12:10,008
that's a horrible trade.

201
00:12:10,008 --> 00:12:11,528
Like this is a bad business.

202
00:12:11,688 --> 00:12:12,148
You know,

203
00:12:12,148 --> 00:12:15,908
back in the day when movie tickets were like six bucks or I could go to

204
00:12:15,908 --> 00:12:17,288
blockbuster and rent a movie for like five bucks.

205
00:12:17,348 --> 00:12:17,588
Okay.

206
00:12:17,808 --> 00:12:18,128
You know,

207
00:12:18,148 --> 00:12:18,688
all right.

208
00:12:18,888 --> 00:12:19,868
But digitally,

209
00:12:19,868 --> 00:12:20,208
like,

210
00:12:20,248 --> 00:12:21,088
I don't want to take that risk.

211
00:12:21,088 --> 00:12:24,328
So if I can just split the value up into tiny little chunks,

212
00:12:24,328 --> 00:12:26,128
I'm much more likely to be,

213
00:12:26,248 --> 00:12:27,508
to take a chance on a movie.

214
00:12:27,668 --> 00:12:28,948
If the risk is,

215
00:12:29,088 --> 00:12:32,408
A half a penny or five pennies or 10 cents or whatever.

216
00:12:32,688 --> 00:12:33,608
Way more like fine.

217
00:12:33,668 --> 00:12:34,068
No problem.

218
00:12:34,328 --> 00:12:35,328
I'm not doing 15 bucks.

219
00:12:35,428 --> 00:12:35,928
I'm sorry.

220
00:12:36,108 --> 00:12:37,848
I don't care that this is a studio movie.

221
00:12:37,948 --> 00:12:40,308
Like I'm just, I don't, I'm frustrated by that experience.

222
00:12:40,308 --> 00:12:45,248
And then that also allows us to stream that revenue to filmmakers and audience members

223
00:12:45,248 --> 00:12:47,888
and investors all over the world who are related to that project.

224
00:12:50,048 --> 00:12:56,068
So lightning allows us to chop up the data in the same way that we, sorry, lightning allows

225
00:12:56,068 --> 00:13:01,368
us to chop up the value, the Bitcoin, into tiny little fractions, and we can send them in real

226
00:13:01,368 --> 00:13:06,368
time in the way that we send the data. So the data and the value are now linked. You're sending

227
00:13:06,368 --> 00:13:11,848
the value on top of the data, which has a lot of interesting ramifications outside of IndyHub,

228
00:13:12,188 --> 00:13:15,108
but we can get into those later. This is probably one more why Bitcoin. Okay,

229
00:13:15,328 --> 00:13:22,588
Lightning is a second layer over Bitcoin, right? But you cannot make such tiny micropayments with

230
00:13:22,588 --> 00:13:27,008
any other solution existing out there on the Lightning Network in such a speed, right?

231
00:13:27,208 --> 00:13:28,428
That's not completely true.

232
00:13:28,888 --> 00:13:29,208
Okay.

233
00:13:30,208 --> 00:13:35,468
So when I first got into crypto, when I first got in the crypto world, I couldn't have told

234
00:13:35,468 --> 00:13:39,628
you the difference between Bitcoin or Ethereum or XRP or Cardinal.

235
00:13:39,668 --> 00:13:40,168
I had no idea.

236
00:13:40,368 --> 00:13:41,368
Technically, I had zero clue.

237
00:13:41,668 --> 00:13:45,248
It took me about two and a half, three years to really understand the difference.

238
00:13:45,788 --> 00:13:50,688
So the first proof of concept of IndyHub I built, I built on a technology that was called

239
00:13:50,688 --> 00:13:51,228
Interledger.

240
00:13:51,228 --> 00:14:04,668
Interledger is essentially a, or was, I don't even know if it's still around, but it was a value transfer protocol. It did not have a coin attached to it, but you could use any payment and receive any payment. It's a pretty cool piece of tech.

241
00:14:04,668 --> 00:14:10,808
It was designed in part by one of the guys who was one of the original developers of XRP,

242
00:14:11,028 --> 00:14:13,928
of the XRP Ledger, one of the actual devs.

243
00:14:13,968 --> 00:14:15,008
This guy's name is Stefan Thomas.

244
00:14:15,348 --> 00:14:19,588
The XRP Ledger, as a piece of software, forget Ripple the company, I'm just talking about

245
00:14:19,588 --> 00:14:24,708
XRPL, the tech, actually had payment channels, which is exactly, more or less exactly how

246
00:14:24,708 --> 00:14:25,308
Lightning works.

247
00:14:25,488 --> 00:14:28,448
I'm not saying on a technical level, I'm not saying the code is the same.

248
00:14:28,528 --> 00:14:30,008
I'm just saying the result is the same.

249
00:14:30,008 --> 00:14:34,088
where you could open up a private channel between me and Shalale,

250
00:14:34,288 --> 00:14:35,648
and you and I could,

251
00:14:35,968 --> 00:14:39,508
we could stream value back and forth at 50,000 transactions per second for

252
00:14:39,508 --> 00:14:39,708
free.

253
00:14:39,848 --> 00:14:43,148
So actually there are a few chains that allow you to do this,

254
00:14:43,448 --> 00:14:45,188
that you can create IOUs on the chains.

255
00:14:45,328 --> 00:14:47,168
It's just that they're all centralized, right?

256
00:14:47,168 --> 00:14:49,048
They're all, they're all, they're not Bitcoin.

257
00:14:49,408 --> 00:14:52,448
So like cool, but it's not really that decentralized.

258
00:14:52,648 --> 00:14:54,808
And so one of the things that really orange pilled me,

259
00:14:54,828 --> 00:14:57,668
it was back in the day, I was like, okay, I want to stream, you know,

260
00:14:57,688 --> 00:14:58,868
before I was a hardcore maxi,

261
00:14:58,868 --> 00:15:02,888
I want to stream value to the point of this question. I wanted to chop up the payments like

262
00:15:02,888 --> 00:15:06,528
we're chopping up the data. You couldn't do that on Bitcoin at the time. Lightning didn't exist.

263
00:15:06,748 --> 00:15:10,028
It wasn't sophisticated. And so I was like, okay, well, I'll do this on the XRPL. And it worked

264
00:15:10,028 --> 00:15:14,128
great. It was awesome. But when I started to get further into that world, I said, hey, okay, well,

265
00:15:14,148 --> 00:15:19,748
I want to participate in this network. How can I run a node? I want to run an XRPL node and maybe

266
00:15:19,748 --> 00:15:24,308
host everything for IndieHub on this node and participate in the payments on the network.

267
00:15:24,668 --> 00:15:27,688
And ultimately what I found out, of course, was like, well, that's not possible. It was like,

268
00:15:27,688 --> 00:15:30,848
okay, if you want to do that, it's going to require, you're going to need like a 24 bay,

269
00:15:31,128 --> 00:15:36,428
you know, SSD raid, and you're going to need like a hundred gigabit uplink, and you're going to need

270
00:15:36,428 --> 00:15:40,208
enterprise IT experience. And it's going to cost like a hundred grand, you know, I'm exaggerating

271
00:15:40,208 --> 00:15:43,688
a little bit, but it was like, what, you know? And then I started to understand, oh, this is,

272
00:15:43,828 --> 00:15:48,448
this is why the Bitcoiners are just won't shut the fuck up about this little node. Like,

273
00:15:48,568 --> 00:15:52,968
oh, I get it. I can just, I can just download it. Like anyone can do it. You know, like I didn't,

274
00:15:53,028 --> 00:15:57,148
I was naive at that time. So it was one of the things that really orange filled. But so anyway,

275
00:15:57,148 --> 00:16:00,668
I know I'm being hyper-technical, but there are some other solutions that exist to this.

276
00:16:00,748 --> 00:16:01,428
They're just not Bitcoin.

277
00:16:01,568 --> 00:16:02,868
They're not built on a decentralized type.

278
00:16:03,028 --> 00:16:04,968
They're dynos, decentralized in name only.

279
00:16:05,328 --> 00:16:05,628
Correct.

280
00:16:05,948 --> 00:16:07,108
Yeah, exactly.

281
00:16:07,628 --> 00:16:09,348
And it's so different than a regular database, right?

282
00:16:09,388 --> 00:16:13,948
Like I can just build a database that just tracks value and then remits payment.

283
00:16:14,108 --> 00:16:15,528
Like that's not that complicated.

284
00:16:15,688 --> 00:16:16,708
It's just all going to end up central.

285
00:16:16,748 --> 00:16:18,428
It's either decentralized or it's not, you know?

286
00:16:18,628 --> 00:16:18,948
Absolutely.

287
00:16:19,408 --> 00:16:20,888
Shalali, do you want to ask something?

288
00:16:20,888 --> 00:16:26,128
Yeah, I think I just want to add to what you said, like how you nicely, for me, it was

289
00:16:26,128 --> 00:16:30,568
not so technical, hopefully, for the audience as well, how you nicely explain how the streaming

290
00:16:30,568 --> 00:16:31,368
works, right?

291
00:16:31,668 --> 00:16:35,008
I think you are paying, there is also this expression, pay per use.

292
00:16:35,328 --> 00:16:40,008
So you are, in theory, giving me a chance to decide whether I want to buy it, rent it,

293
00:16:40,128 --> 00:16:45,148
maybe as a gift for, let's say, for Juan, but it is me who decides.

294
00:16:45,148 --> 00:16:47,168
You are not forcing me to do anything.

295
00:16:47,348 --> 00:16:53,168
And this is so sad to see everything that's surrounding us, like Uncle Klaus Schwab said

296
00:16:53,168 --> 00:16:55,028
you own nothing and you will be happy, right?

297
00:16:55,028 --> 00:16:57,568
Sorry, so we are just renting things.

298
00:16:57,668 --> 00:16:58,848
We are not owning anything.

299
00:16:58,988 --> 00:17:02,668
We don't own our sovereignty, our decisions, nothing, literally.

300
00:17:02,848 --> 00:17:07,268
So at least here you are bringing back the basic, yeah, I pay for what I use.

301
00:17:07,268 --> 00:17:14,128
And if later, because you build this kind of trust, okay, if I like it, then it's on me, my decision, what I want to do with it.

302
00:17:14,348 --> 00:17:18,548
But the question is, for example, how will it benefit the creator?

303
00:17:18,548 --> 00:17:24,208
so maybe after some time they will see that okay there are too many people just maybe playing with

304
00:17:24,208 --> 00:17:29,288
the platform testing it or maybe there will be even bots or i don't know what kind of issues that

305
00:17:29,288 --> 00:17:35,068
you know there is a streaming of let's say first 20 30 minutes the movie is let's say two hours

306
00:17:35,068 --> 00:17:38,568
let's imagine that you have long-form content as well and then they will say okay i don't want to

307
00:17:38,568 --> 00:17:43,988
work with you anymore because it doesn't work this way uh bitcoin is also very volatile the

308
00:17:43,988 --> 00:17:47,248
price is changing a lot it doesn't bring me anything i don't want this business model i

309
00:17:47,248 --> 00:17:53,188
prefer the bad, the pain with Netflix than staying here, or I will try to do something else. Do you

310
00:17:53,188 --> 00:17:56,928
think, is there such a risk? Have you thought about it, for example? Yeah, definitely. You know,

311
00:17:57,008 --> 00:18:02,788
this isn't, you know, IndyHub is not going to solve, we're not going to be scaled up fast enough.

312
00:18:02,788 --> 00:18:06,808
You know, you go, you go make a million dollar movie or a $2 million movie or a $10 million movie,

313
00:18:06,888 --> 00:18:11,788
like right now, IndyHub is not the place for you. You know, we don't generate that amount of

314
00:18:11,788 --> 00:18:16,608
revenue for filmmakers at all. Like we're very, very early. So essentially all I can do in that

315
00:18:16,608 --> 00:18:22,588
circumstances is tell the filmmaker, hey, I'm not doing what every other streaming company is doing,

316
00:18:22,648 --> 00:18:26,808
which is essentially just a licensing deal. If you want to upload it here, you can upload it here.

317
00:18:26,808 --> 00:18:31,968
If you want to unpublish it in five seconds and remove it from the platform, that's totally up to

318
00:18:31,968 --> 00:18:37,628
you. You're in control. I'm not buying the rights to this movie from you. You can do whatever you

319
00:18:37,628 --> 00:18:42,448
want. I'm just trying to facilitate attention. You are building the bridge, giving the ground

320
00:18:42,448 --> 00:18:43,608
and the bridge for them.

321
00:18:43,808 --> 00:18:44,548
Yeah, exactly.

322
00:18:44,928 --> 00:18:47,928
So ultimately, I want to out-compete.

323
00:18:47,928 --> 00:18:49,528
I want people to be on IndieHub

324
00:18:49,528 --> 00:18:51,388
because it's the best place for them to be.

325
00:18:51,568 --> 00:18:53,488
And it's because that's where they make the most money.

326
00:18:53,688 --> 00:18:56,808
And it's where the discerning audiences are

327
00:18:56,808 --> 00:18:59,688
that are going to enjoy and watch their projects.

328
00:18:59,908 --> 00:19:02,888
I have to be able to try to compete on those grounds.

329
00:19:03,108 --> 00:19:06,528
And if filmmakers want to do something exclusively with us,

330
00:19:06,728 --> 00:19:07,428
that's up to them.

331
00:19:07,588 --> 00:19:09,428
And we can figure out a deal or whatever,

332
00:19:09,548 --> 00:19:11,168
but it has to be consensual.

333
00:19:11,568 --> 00:19:16,968
Netflix, the way it works right now, let's say most people want to get on Netflix because that's where the exclusivity was.

334
00:19:17,228 --> 00:19:18,668
That's where the cachet was.

335
00:19:18,948 --> 00:19:19,948
Filmmakers want eyeballs.

336
00:19:20,148 --> 00:19:27,428
And it was like, well, if I release it on YouTube, Netflix is never going to want it because Netflix doesn't get to claim any kind of exclusivity.

337
00:19:27,768 --> 00:19:31,888
So there was like a chain of where you tried to get your movie released on.

338
00:19:31,888 --> 00:19:33,288
So you started at the top.

339
00:19:33,568 --> 00:19:36,948
And if you were lucky enough, Netflix says, OK, we'll give you whatever.

340
00:19:36,948 --> 00:19:42,708
We'll give you 15 grand and, you know, we'll keep it on here for a year.

341
00:19:42,968 --> 00:19:44,208
There's no residuals.

342
00:19:44,428 --> 00:19:45,108
We're not going to tell you.

343
00:19:45,108 --> 00:19:46,228
But this is like short-term thinking, right?

344
00:19:46,288 --> 00:19:51,148
Because it might feel like strategic, tactical move now, but in the end, it's like a very

345
00:19:51,148 --> 00:19:53,328
fatal, let's say, mistake in the long term.

346
00:19:53,688 --> 00:19:58,468
And in this sense, what you are saying, being very direct and firm about it, first of all,

347
00:19:58,548 --> 00:20:02,728
you also give this data access to the creator.

348
00:20:02,928 --> 00:20:06,528
So as you were mentioning before a couple of times, you actually highlighted it.

349
00:20:06,528 --> 00:20:09,088
Netflix doesn't share this information with the creator.

350
00:20:09,468 --> 00:20:11,208
So they have no idea what's happening.

351
00:20:11,468 --> 00:20:13,208
It's like giving away your baby.

352
00:20:13,408 --> 00:20:16,568
You have no idea about the future, like no right to check.

353
00:20:16,868 --> 00:20:20,228
The only thing you can do is to have more babies, to produce more movies.

354
00:20:20,468 --> 00:20:23,788
But what you are also giving as a difference is the data.

355
00:20:23,968 --> 00:20:29,048
And if, in theory, what you said sounds pretty cool, I think, to all the filmmakers,

356
00:20:29,188 --> 00:20:33,468
if they want to do something exclusive, maybe if they want to add extra feature based on this data,

357
00:20:33,568 --> 00:20:35,268
maybe they can do that, right?

358
00:20:35,268 --> 00:20:37,208
because you have the ground, you have the bridge.

359
00:20:38,148 --> 00:20:41,528
Yeah, and ideally give them access to the audiences

360
00:20:41,528 --> 00:20:43,208
that are resonating with their work.

361
00:20:48,308 --> 00:20:53,768
I want to also deep dive a little bit more into the Netflix issue.

362
00:20:53,768 --> 00:20:54,608
Let's say issue.

363
00:20:55,268 --> 00:20:58,268
So people are more aware about the problem.

364
00:20:58,788 --> 00:21:03,508
And because, as Silely mentioned, it's actually a pretty good,

365
00:21:03,508 --> 00:21:06,008
I mean, it's a pretty big issue.

366
00:21:06,008 --> 00:21:13,108
So I want to talk about what will come in the short term future time frame, because what

367
00:21:13,108 --> 00:21:17,568
does it mean for Hollywood when so much creativity and, you know, financial power, in this case,

368
00:21:17,648 --> 00:21:19,688
Netflix is concentrated in one studio?

369
00:21:20,208 --> 00:21:32,396
What we can expect from now on how it going to be and also how this concentration of power affects creators in general not just independent or even theatrical releases or even the diversity

370
00:21:32,396 --> 00:21:39,836
of stories that the audience get to see it, right? Yeah. I think that the structure of what's about

371
00:21:39,836 --> 00:21:45,516
to happen, you can back into it by looking at what happens in any market throughout all of history

372
00:21:45,516 --> 00:21:52,196
when you have monopolistic practices or centralized control over the means of production.

373
00:21:52,356 --> 00:21:56,876
You can call it communism, you call it socialism, whatever, monopolies. There's basically two ways.

374
00:21:57,156 --> 00:22:00,476
There's a free and open market whereby the decision-making is decentralized,

375
00:22:01,036 --> 00:22:05,696
and then there are systems where it's not. And the systems where it's not, no matter what the

376
00:22:05,696 --> 00:22:10,016
product is, the price goes up and the quality goes down. You could look at it like a jungle.

377
00:22:10,016 --> 00:22:35,516
You know what I mean? Like a jungle is a hyper competitive, hyper volatile when you're down on the jungle floor, crazy octagon battle for life. But if you zoom out and it looks like there's incredibly healthy ecosystem and there's so much lights teeming with life. That's what we want. We want the freest market possible because that produces the strongest creatures, the best ideas, the most interesting products. Filmmaking is no different.

378
00:22:35,516 --> 00:22:43,296
So as they continue to go down the line here, we're going to be corralled into some buckets

379
00:22:43,296 --> 00:22:48,676
because basically that's, this is a little more of an insidious topic, but they want

380
00:22:48,676 --> 00:22:52,676
us thinking and behaving and feeling a particular way so they can manipulate us.

381
00:22:52,736 --> 00:22:55,296
And they control the means of production here, literally.

382
00:22:55,516 --> 00:22:57,096
You don't get to invest in a movie.

383
00:22:57,236 --> 00:23:00,716
You don't get to decide and participate in what gets created.

384
00:23:00,716 --> 00:23:16,616
That's a handful of people who have the ability to borrow at nothing percent, who have access to public markets and capital markets that none of us have access to. But you don't get access to public markets without playing the game. It just doesn't happen. So everything is going to be tightly controlled.

385
00:23:16,616 --> 00:23:22,456
What I say in this conversation with people is I ask them what the difference is between art and propaganda.

386
00:23:22,776 --> 00:23:25,496
And the difference comes down to who is writing the check.

387
00:23:26,056 --> 00:23:27,956
And so you can use a camera.

388
00:23:28,376 --> 00:23:29,136
It's just a tool.

389
00:23:29,256 --> 00:23:29,856
It's like a gun.

390
00:23:30,156 --> 00:23:31,116
You can use it for good.

391
00:23:31,196 --> 00:23:32,036
You can use it for evil.

392
00:23:32,256 --> 00:23:41,096
And so the material will continue to get dumbed down and it will continue to become more bland, no different than our food, no different than a slice of bread.

393
00:23:41,096 --> 00:23:48,836
At one point, it was a pretty healthy, interesting thing with a lot of different, you know, microbes on it and a lot of different nutritional value.

394
00:23:49,236 --> 00:23:55,196
And then you get to Wonder Bread, which is basically, I don't even know what it is, like white paint, you know, right?

395
00:23:55,276 --> 00:23:59,236
And so the same thing is happening with the content.

396
00:23:59,516 --> 00:24:01,076
I hate that word, but the content.

397
00:24:01,476 --> 00:24:03,016
You're consuming content.

398
00:24:03,276 --> 00:24:03,876
Like, what does that mean?

399
00:24:03,876 --> 00:24:04,736
It's like a soylent green.

400
00:24:04,816 --> 00:24:05,536
Like, what does that mean?

401
00:24:05,596 --> 00:24:06,516
It's so ridiculous.

402
00:24:06,836 --> 00:24:08,336
So it's going to continue to get worse.

403
00:24:08,376 --> 00:24:09,856
It's going to have less nutritional value.

404
00:24:09,856 --> 00:24:14,816
it's going to make you think less it's going to dumb you down more and that's partly by design i'm

405
00:24:14,816 --> 00:24:20,416
not saying that it's a hundred percent that way but it's it's the influence of that is definitely

406
00:24:20,416 --> 00:24:26,256
there um i don't know does that answer the question yeah absolutely okay i don't know

407
00:24:26,256 --> 00:24:32,736
right here then this kind of dystopian future reality can open the door for people who have

408
00:24:32,736 --> 00:24:36,896
enough and they will say i don't want to consume this thing at all though they have the crave for

409
00:24:36,896 --> 00:24:38,816
as your favorite consuming content.

410
00:24:38,816 --> 00:24:41,516
So they will try to find some niche solutions,

411
00:24:41,736 --> 00:24:46,236
niche production studios or streaming services

412
00:24:46,236 --> 00:24:49,016
or whatever, like projects very similar to IndieHub, right?

413
00:24:49,256 --> 00:24:52,256
So there is always like in nature, the yin and yang,

414
00:24:52,416 --> 00:24:54,756
all this evil that will be, unfortunately,

415
00:24:55,116 --> 00:24:57,036
probably for the majority of the time,

416
00:24:57,376 --> 00:24:58,876
the biggest, the loudest,

417
00:24:59,076 --> 00:25:01,956
because of how ugly and depressing it is,

418
00:25:02,056 --> 00:25:05,316
it will actually open the door for everyone else

419
00:25:05,316 --> 00:25:06,456
to kind of handle it anymore.

420
00:25:06,456 --> 00:25:08,956
and then it will actually help something else grow.

421
00:25:09,156 --> 00:25:10,776
Yeah, more or less, basically.

422
00:25:11,356 --> 00:25:13,756
Yes, what's happening right now is

423
00:25:13,756 --> 00:25:16,216
it can't happen any other way

424
00:25:16,216 --> 00:25:18,236
and it's fundamentally necessary for it to happen

425
00:25:18,236 --> 00:25:20,896
because it's waking up a particular group of people

426
00:25:20,896 --> 00:25:24,556
and incentivizing them to behave in a different way,

427
00:25:24,636 --> 00:25:26,196
to make different, better choices,

428
00:25:26,296 --> 00:25:28,856
to build a new system outside of the old corrupt one.

429
00:25:29,256 --> 00:25:30,796
So, you know, in my opinion,

430
00:25:30,936 --> 00:25:33,376
everything is subordinate to creation itself.

431
00:25:33,596 --> 00:25:35,836
The darkness works for the light

432
00:25:35,836 --> 00:25:41,596
by definition and you don't have to participate in abject darkness you just make a choice not to

433
00:25:41,596 --> 00:25:47,756
that doesn't mean that they're you know it the darkness galvanizes the light and puts it back

434
00:25:47,756 --> 00:25:51,556
on mission you know it's part of the game it's just it's part of the game and so we get to go

435
00:25:51,556 --> 00:25:55,516
build something new because the old thing sucks and that's a lot of fun and that's what we're here

436
00:25:55,516 --> 00:26:01,516
for right we're these little uh creative beings who can transmute energy from here to there and

437
00:26:01,516 --> 00:26:05,856
build cool new things. And we're in a totally different world. The technology has changed

438
00:26:05,856 --> 00:26:12,336
everything. And so there has to be a new way to do it. And so it's exciting. If you don't get lost

439
00:26:12,336 --> 00:26:17,056
in the cynicism and the pessimism, it's actually pretty awesome what's happening right now. We get

440
00:26:17,056 --> 00:26:23,316
to go do something that's very, very cool. So I'm hyped about it personally. So now I was just

441
00:26:23,316 --> 00:26:30,356
thinking that if Bitcoin and India, no, hold on. I'm going to start again. When Bitcoin and Indihub

442
00:26:30,356 --> 00:26:38,376
scale globally uh how cool both things reshape the way that storytelling freedom and cultural

443
00:26:38,376 --> 00:26:46,956
diversity works you know because do you now know the the problem we now see the solution but how

444
00:26:46,956 --> 00:26:53,896
can actually affect in in the future when let's say that these things are completely scaled globally

445
00:26:53,896 --> 00:26:59,116
have you ever talked about yeah so let me repeat so i make sure i'm on the same page so you're

446
00:26:59,116 --> 00:27:05,576
asking how these solutions will, or are you asking how they will work or what it will look like when

447
00:27:05,576 --> 00:27:10,596
they're working? Exactly. How will it look like when they're working? Okay. So what I would say,

448
00:27:10,756 --> 00:27:18,136
my assumption or presupposition on this, I guess, is that we'll end up being in a, I would say,

449
00:27:18,256 --> 00:27:23,056
a total renaissance. I personally think, and I think that we're going into the greatest economic

450
00:27:23,056 --> 00:27:27,876
expansion in all of human history. There's probably some bumps before we get there. It might get a

451
00:27:27,876 --> 00:27:32,136
little crazy between now and then. And I don't know how, I don't know the timing. Maybe it's five

452
00:27:32,136 --> 00:27:36,416
years, maybe it's 25 years, maybe it's 50 years. I don't know. But what I do feel pretty confident

453
00:27:36,416 --> 00:27:41,216
about is that the other end of this is going to be the promised land, so to speak. We're going to

454
00:27:41,216 --> 00:27:49,596
have a more diverse ecosystem of human ideas and thought and expression than we have ever experienced

455
00:27:49,596 --> 00:27:55,036
ever. Because prior to this, most human beings, most civilizations were relatively isolated from

456
00:27:55,036 --> 00:28:00,616
each other. They were super decentralized, if you want to look at it that way. And we're going,

457
00:28:00,976 --> 00:28:04,696
post-World War II was probably one of the most centralized periods in all of human history.

458
00:28:04,956 --> 00:28:10,676
And we're going back to a decentralized power structure globally, which is why things feel

459
00:28:10,676 --> 00:28:15,956
unstable. But on the other end of that, I think we're going to, we can just talk from a movie

460
00:28:15,956 --> 00:28:21,136
perspective. I think that some of the best stories to have ever been told have yet to be told. Some

461
00:28:21,136 --> 00:28:25,116
of the best movies to have ever been made have yet to be made. AI is going to play a huge part

462
00:28:25,116 --> 00:28:29,936
in that. AI is incredibly advanced already with respect to filmmaking. And it scares, it's scary

463
00:28:29,936 --> 00:28:34,896
as hell. 20 plus years, more than that, 25, 30 years of my life, I have spent honing certain

464
00:28:34,896 --> 00:28:39,836
skills that are being, you know, kind of put by the wayside by AI. But that doesn't mean that

465
00:28:39,836 --> 00:28:44,016
human beings don't value storytelling. It's just the tools are different. So I think that we're

466
00:28:44,016 --> 00:28:49,836
going to have some of the best artists have an opportunity that they never had before to contribute

467
00:28:49,836 --> 00:28:52,596
to the world in a way that it was never possible before.

468
00:28:52,876 --> 00:28:57,956
You know, what's the, there's a certain math around how many geniuses exist on the planet.

469
00:28:58,176 --> 00:29:00,636
And it's like a relatively fixed ratio.

470
00:29:00,936 --> 00:29:05,536
I mean, I'm probably messing this up, but for brevity's sake, like there's X geniuses

471
00:29:05,536 --> 00:29:06,816
per thousand people, let's say.

472
00:29:07,196 --> 00:29:10,336
Well, if there's, if there really are 8 billion people on the planet, then there should be

473
00:29:10,336 --> 00:29:11,476
a lot of geniuses.

474
00:29:11,476 --> 00:29:13,636
And those geniuses should be able to contribute.

475
00:29:13,636 --> 00:29:21,776
but they're not because the system isn't designed for real competition to let the best and the

476
00:29:21,776 --> 00:29:26,356
brightest to let the cream rise to the top so if we're going into a world where bitcoin is going to

477
00:29:26,356 --> 00:29:31,496
allow for competition i think that um i think that the world is going to look very different than it

478
00:29:31,496 --> 00:29:36,876
looks right now and i think that there's a lot of people who are going to get brutally out-competed

479
00:29:36,876 --> 00:29:41,316
by the smartest among us and they're they're they're not gonna they're gonna be pretty mad

480
00:29:41,316 --> 00:29:45,416
about that. And there's going to be a lot of like, this is very unfair. It's unfair. Life is unfair.

481
00:29:45,756 --> 00:29:50,496
But at the other end of that, if we allow for that to happen, we're going to have access to

482
00:29:50,496 --> 00:29:56,436
better everything than we would have had access to prior if we're just forcing and allowing the

483
00:29:56,436 --> 00:30:00,836
average among us to run everything. And so if you want to be successful in the film business or the

484
00:30:00,836 --> 00:30:04,216
storytelling business, you're going to have to compete, man, because we're going to a world where

485
00:30:04,216 --> 00:30:07,876
you got to compete and it's hyper competitive. You're not going to be able to just join a union

486
00:30:07,876 --> 00:30:11,656
and be like, I get my union rate and I get my residuals and I did one commercial a year,

487
00:30:11,876 --> 00:30:16,056
you know, it's going to be hyper competitive. So on the one hand, it's going to be a very different,

488
00:30:16,416 --> 00:30:19,916
much more competitive world. On the other hand, we're going to see some of the most

489
00:30:19,916 --> 00:30:25,876
mind-blowing, beautiful art that we've ever seen. And some of the most challenging ideas

490
00:30:25,876 --> 00:30:30,796
that will have ever been presented to continue to push us further and farther. So, you know,

491
00:30:30,836 --> 00:30:35,496
we've been spoon fed, right? Like let's say post-World War II United States, just because I

492
00:30:35,496 --> 00:30:41,036
can speak to that to some extent. You had three broadcast networks. You had ABC, NBC, CBS.

493
00:30:41,476 --> 00:30:46,676
Everybody was being programmed by the same shit. Everyone, everyone, you know, the water cooler

494
00:30:46,676 --> 00:30:50,036
conversation was the same conversation because everybody was watching the same thing. You now

495
00:30:50,036 --> 00:30:56,216
live in a world where your flatmate can be watching YouTube with some person on YouTube

496
00:30:56,216 --> 00:31:01,036
who's like wildly famous that I've never heard of. I don't know who the hell that is. Apparently

497
00:31:01,036 --> 00:31:05,496
they're huge. Apparently they're billionaires. I don't know. Right. So we're already seeing the

498
00:31:05,496 --> 00:31:12,456
evidence of the world decentralizing and it's going to get more like a jungle, man. It's going

499
00:31:12,456 --> 00:31:15,776
to be like a jungle. And if you're able to zoom out like down on the jungle floor, it's going to

500
00:31:15,776 --> 00:31:18,916
be kind of brutal. Honestly, like I think there's gonna be a lot of people who aren't really down

501
00:31:18,916 --> 00:31:23,436
for it because it's going to require a lot more of them than they've had to contribute in the past.

502
00:31:23,436 --> 00:31:35,376
But if you're able to zoom out, it's we're going to see a an incredibly thriving species as we as we move forward into space and into this technological era.

503
00:31:35,636 --> 00:31:43,136
But I do think that there's a lot of people who are going to get taken out, so to speak, of the game because, you know, they're just going to be like, you know, back to the dopamine point.

504
00:31:43,196 --> 00:31:46,956
They're like, I'm just sitting here like looking at porn on AI for my whole life.

505
00:31:46,976 --> 00:31:49,996
Like you just wasted you just wasted all the potential you had as a human being.

506
00:31:50,336 --> 00:31:51,336
So you're out of the game.

507
00:31:51,336 --> 00:31:52,496
I mean, yeah, exactly.

508
00:31:52,496 --> 00:31:55,736
Like you're not like, it's no different than somebody smoking crack under the 101.

509
00:31:56,316 --> 00:31:57,196
They've wasted their life.

510
00:31:57,276 --> 00:31:57,996
They're not in the game.

511
00:31:58,196 --> 00:31:59,256
I'm not competing with them.

512
00:31:59,576 --> 00:32:00,956
They're not contributing anything.

513
00:32:01,236 --> 00:32:02,016
It's a waste.

514
00:32:02,276 --> 00:32:03,496
So there's going to be a lot of people.

515
00:32:04,116 --> 00:32:13,524
No go ahead Yeah go ahead I argue that it been always like this We don know Maybe also in medieval times and in even like middle ages

516
00:32:13,944 --> 00:32:17,764
It's a story like even the ice, ice, whatever.

517
00:32:17,964 --> 00:32:18,344
Ice age.

518
00:32:18,764 --> 00:32:20,524
Like, you know, like super, super long time ago.

519
00:32:20,884 --> 00:32:22,444
I mean, there were always this kind of personalities.

520
00:32:22,644 --> 00:32:26,984
There are people who just want to be led and told what to do.

521
00:32:27,084 --> 00:32:29,604
And they are very passive and they just exist like this.

522
00:32:29,684 --> 00:32:30,704
They don't expect anything else.

523
00:32:31,024 --> 00:32:32,724
Now we just see it on a bigger scale.

524
00:32:32,724 --> 00:32:34,584
and probably through the technology,

525
00:32:34,764 --> 00:32:35,684
there will be more noise.

526
00:32:35,944 --> 00:32:37,904
Everything will be more condensed and bigger

527
00:32:37,904 --> 00:32:41,324
and growing exponentially and like, yeah,

528
00:32:41,704 --> 00:32:42,744
sharper and so on.

529
00:32:42,824 --> 00:32:43,584
But on the other hand,

530
00:32:43,784 --> 00:32:46,004
probably the reality didn't really change.

531
00:32:46,124 --> 00:32:47,924
It's just like the scale stretch.

532
00:32:48,044 --> 00:32:48,704
I agree with that.

533
00:32:48,784 --> 00:32:49,284
I agree with that,

534
00:32:49,344 --> 00:32:51,344
except what I would say is that I think for the,

535
00:32:51,984 --> 00:32:52,644
and I could be wrong here,

536
00:32:52,644 --> 00:32:53,744
but I think for the first time,

537
00:32:53,824 --> 00:32:54,924
Bitcoin offers,

538
00:32:55,344 --> 00:32:58,244
there's always going to be an X percent of people

539
00:32:58,244 --> 00:32:59,104
who are like, dude, I don't,

540
00:32:59,184 --> 00:33:00,164
I'm not an entrepreneur.

541
00:33:00,504 --> 00:33:01,144
I don't want to compete.

542
00:33:01,264 --> 00:33:02,604
I don't care, you know, whatever.

543
00:33:02,724 --> 00:33:03,124
I'm doing my thing.

544
00:33:03,164 --> 00:33:03,464
That's fine.

545
00:33:03,824 --> 00:33:10,344
The difference is, is that all of those people don't have to be held back by an inbred king

546
00:33:10,344 --> 00:33:11,704
in a castle, right?

547
00:33:11,844 --> 00:33:16,584
Like the leadership gets to be the people who really are interested in competing and

548
00:33:16,584 --> 00:33:21,944
doing crazy shit technologically, making crazy movies, developing crazy tech.

549
00:33:22,284 --> 00:33:28,164
Bitcoin allows free society so that the people who want to compete can compete as opposed

550
00:33:28,164 --> 00:33:29,764
to, oh, you're a threat to me.

551
00:33:29,844 --> 00:33:32,624
So I'm just going to kill you, you know, which will still happen.

552
00:33:32,724 --> 00:33:37,564
The biggest difference, the first precedent like this, like the first case ever, the humanity.

553
00:33:38,564 --> 00:33:38,864
Yeah.

554
00:33:39,344 --> 00:33:45,604
So in the end, who benefits and who loses in a decentralized creative economic versus, you know, the traditional studio model?

555
00:33:45,724 --> 00:33:47,764
For film, who benefits?

556
00:33:47,904 --> 00:33:51,144
The audience benefits first and foremost, because we're going to have better stories.

557
00:33:51,164 --> 00:33:51,904
We're going to have better movies.

558
00:33:52,364 --> 00:33:54,284
Society benefits, consciousness benefits.

559
00:33:54,544 --> 00:33:59,764
For filmmakers, it's going to be more competitive than ever.

560
00:34:00,004 --> 00:34:02,024
It's going to be more difficult than ever.

561
00:34:02,024 --> 00:34:25,784
But the rewards are going to be greater than ever. You'll have access to capital, but that capital will be intelligent. Nothing is going to be given. Everything is going to be earned. And the people who are able to crack that code and who society responds to the most are going to receive outsized reward. It's going to be massive.

562
00:34:25,784 --> 00:34:54,904
I would say the Pareto principle is going to totally apply here. It's going to have an 80-20, right? 20% of the artists are going to generate and attract 80% of the revenue, maybe more. So the structure won't necessarily be different than it already is. It's just that, like we were saying before, it's not the corrupt at the top who have the money printer. It's hyper. You've earned that place at the top because of a hyper competitive vetting process that got you there.

563
00:34:54,904 --> 00:35:03,704
That was decided ultimately by the audiences themselves because you couldn't have gotten that revenue had all of the people not given you their attention.

564
00:35:03,984 --> 00:35:06,064
It's a direct corollary.

565
00:35:06,324 --> 00:35:11,124
It's not this weird back end, stealing your attention by money printing and ads.

566
00:35:11,264 --> 00:35:15,064
It's literally if you generated that revenue, it's because somebody watched your thing.

567
00:35:15,404 --> 00:35:15,844
That's it.

568
00:35:16,524 --> 00:35:20,144
I'm not offering an egalitarian world here.

569
00:35:20,444 --> 00:35:21,084
It's not.

570
00:35:21,384 --> 00:35:22,344
The world is not.

571
00:35:22,644 --> 00:35:24,124
I'm sorry if you think that it is.

572
00:35:24,124 --> 00:35:27,764
But what I am offering is an opportunity to compete.

573
00:35:28,104 --> 00:35:31,924
If you think that you can compete and you have a good idea, by all means, go make your movie.

574
00:35:32,024 --> 00:35:33,584
The world needs you to try.

575
00:35:33,964 --> 00:35:35,224
We need you to try.

576
00:35:35,484 --> 00:35:37,324
But that doesn't mean that everybody's going to care.

577
00:35:37,564 --> 00:35:38,864
I can't control for that.

578
00:35:38,984 --> 00:35:39,624
That's up to you.

579
00:35:39,844 --> 00:35:40,244
Yeah, absolutely.

580
00:35:40,584 --> 00:35:43,544
And by the way, how do you measure success in this model?

581
00:35:43,764 --> 00:35:47,204
Like creative freedom, audience reach, revenue, something else?

582
00:35:47,204 --> 00:35:54,224
Because that's something that I was thinking also in how they give the price in the Bitcoin phone files as well.

583
00:35:54,404 --> 00:35:55,804
So how do you measure this?

584
00:35:56,024 --> 00:35:56,604
It's a great question.

585
00:35:56,644 --> 00:35:57,624
It's a fantastic question.

586
00:35:57,624 --> 00:36:05,924
You always, in the system I'm trying to build, you can't discount the revenue side of it because the revenue is generated by attention.

587
00:36:06,324 --> 00:36:07,624
So that's always going to matter, right?

588
00:36:07,844 --> 00:36:09,684
You captured attention somehow.

589
00:36:09,984 --> 00:36:10,904
So that's always going to matter.

590
00:36:10,904 --> 00:36:20,164
But in my opinion, what success looks like is the ability for artists to take more risks more quickly and to iterate faster.

591
00:36:20,164 --> 00:36:40,424
So if we go back to, let's say, New York and the neighborhood playhouse, you had some of the greatest performance, the greatest performers in history, the greatest film actors and theater actors came out of a system where they were in an economic system in New York where they were able to rehearse and write and rehearse and write.

592
00:36:40,424 --> 00:36:43,284
and they were able to iterate to an immense degree.

593
00:36:43,584 --> 00:36:44,524
And they could put out a play

594
00:36:44,524 --> 00:36:45,824
and that play could generate some revenue

595
00:36:45,824 --> 00:36:47,984
and nobody was necessarily getting rich on plays,

596
00:36:48,064 --> 00:36:49,084
but they got to practice.

597
00:36:49,284 --> 00:36:50,304
They got to rehearse.

598
00:36:50,644 --> 00:36:51,604
David Mamet got to write.

599
00:36:51,704 --> 00:36:52,744
They got to work on the things.

600
00:36:52,864 --> 00:36:53,544
Mamet sat there.

601
00:36:53,804 --> 00:36:55,284
They got to go back and forth and iterate

602
00:36:55,284 --> 00:36:56,224
and get better and better and better,

603
00:36:56,324 --> 00:36:57,144
faster and faster and faster.

604
00:36:57,624 --> 00:36:58,384
Are you talking about Juilliard?

605
00:36:59,084 --> 00:36:59,324
What?

606
00:36:59,544 --> 00:37:00,604
Are you talking about Juilliard?

607
00:37:01,384 --> 00:37:01,744
No.

608
00:37:02,004 --> 00:37:02,324
The school?

609
00:37:02,844 --> 00:37:03,144
Okay.

610
00:37:03,384 --> 00:37:03,884
I mean, sure.

611
00:37:04,324 --> 00:37:05,624
There was a few back there.

612
00:37:05,964 --> 00:37:07,564
Meisner had the neighborhood playhouse.

613
00:37:07,564 --> 00:37:08,544
You've got, you know,

614
00:37:08,544 --> 00:37:13,284
basically everything Stanislavski comes down into New York in this period. But my point is more of

615
00:37:13,284 --> 00:37:18,624
an economic point, which is that these artists could iterate and they didn't have to work.

616
00:37:18,844 --> 00:37:23,944
They didn't have to allocate their time to doing anything else. They just got to iterate. So success

617
00:37:23,944 --> 00:37:28,784
to me is a world where if you're a student filmmaker and you put your movie on IndieHub

618
00:37:28,784 --> 00:37:33,144
and it, let's say it costs you $10,000 to make your short film. Well, hopefully you could at

619
00:37:33,144 --> 00:37:38,084
least make half of it back. If not just make your 10 grand back, because that means you get to keep

620
00:37:38,084 --> 00:37:41,304
iterating. That means you get to keep getting better and better and better and better and

621
00:37:41,304 --> 00:37:44,564
better. If you go allocate that 10 grand and you never have an opportunity to make it back,

622
00:37:44,644 --> 00:37:50,084
well, now you got to go wait tables or whatever. So success to me is, can you iterate? Because the

623
00:37:50,084 --> 00:37:54,244
best of the best of the best of the best are not going to get there without decades of iterating.

624
00:37:54,244 --> 00:37:58,064
That's how everything works. The best athletes in the world, the best actors, the best artists,

625
00:37:58,244 --> 00:38:04,704
they got that way because they could afford 15 hours a day to their craft. We're in a system

626
00:38:04,704 --> 00:38:09,524
right now where people don't, it's a political system. And so they don't get to dedicate that

627
00:38:09,524 --> 00:38:14,164
many hours a day to their craft. They dedicate more hours to like kissing ass and trying to

628
00:38:14,164 --> 00:38:18,424
develop a following rather than being locked in a room studying the performance of acting.

629
00:38:18,804 --> 00:38:24,584
So to me, success looks like, can we sustain artists so that they can iterate and become

630
00:38:24,584 --> 00:38:27,824
the best version of themselves? And then everything will take care of itself after that.

631
00:38:28,144 --> 00:38:31,484
The market will take care of itself after that. Brilliant pieces of work that will captivate

632
00:38:31,484 --> 00:38:36,624
human beings all over the world that's just a byproduct of artists being able to focus on

633
00:38:36,624 --> 00:38:41,064
their craft so that's success in my opinion perfect so lelly do you have a last question

634
00:38:41,064 --> 00:38:47,704
otherwise let's get out of here let's get out um no no maybe not the last question but um

635
00:38:47,704 --> 00:38:53,964
a message you know it's 2026 still the beginning of the of the new year so what would be the

636
00:38:53,964 --> 00:39:01,044
message the whole fourth term let's say short term i mean not in the next few decades uh

637
00:39:01,044 --> 00:39:08,944
Zach, you have for both the creators, like the filmmakers, video makers, what will be the call for them and the audience as well?

638
00:39:09,064 --> 00:39:14,044
Any call out, any message, any request or wish maybe?

639
00:39:14,464 --> 00:39:16,364
What do you wish for that?

640
00:39:16,564 --> 00:39:19,344
I will, I'll just, this is like a meta, meta, meta quote.

641
00:39:19,464 --> 00:39:26,624
At the end of American History Acts, he basically has this great monologue and he says, if somebody else said it best, just steal from them and go out strong.

642
00:39:26,624 --> 00:39:30,044
Winston Churchill is a solid quote here.

643
00:39:30,224 --> 00:39:30,524
Simple.

644
00:39:30,524 --> 00:39:37,924
It's a simple idea. Never, never, never quit. And really what I'm trying to say is don't succumb to

645
00:39:37,924 --> 00:39:45,044
cynicism. Don't succumb to pessimism. Continue forward knowing that every challenge that you're

646
00:39:45,044 --> 00:39:49,884
going through is a gift to make you better, faster, stronger, smarter. Every challenge in

647
00:39:49,884 --> 00:39:55,224
your life is an opportunity. Do whatever you have to do in your life to orient yourself such that

648
00:39:55,224 --> 00:40:02,864
you truly understand that concept. Because until you really believe that, if you see every opportunity

649
00:40:02,864 --> 00:40:10,324
as a problem instead of every problem as an opportunity, you're fucked, frankly. I'm just

650
00:40:10,324 --> 00:40:17,544
sorry to be direct, but your mindset is the only thing that matters. So don't quit. Figure out how

651
00:40:17,544 --> 00:40:21,984
to see the opportunities in every problem you have and continue forward. The juice is worth

652
00:40:21,984 --> 00:40:26,904
of the squeeze. Like get your relationship with yourself straight because we need you. Humanity

653
00:40:26,904 --> 00:40:32,004
needs you. We need you to be the best version of yourself. It's worth something. So keep going.

654
00:40:32,004 --> 00:40:38,624
That's pretty cool. So life happens like for you, not to you directly. So use it and yeah,

655
00:40:38,984 --> 00:40:43,864
keep moving forward because every challenge is actually a chance. Beautiful. Cool. Thanks.

656
00:40:44,204 --> 00:40:49,524
Nailed it. You nailed it. Go on. You're the best. So decide what's next.

657
00:40:49,524 --> 00:40:50,284
Let's go to dinner.

658
00:40:53,784 --> 00:40:55,644
Yeah, true, because you're a Salvatron.

659
00:40:55,784 --> 00:40:58,044
I'm just looking at my clock.

660
00:40:58,164 --> 00:41:01,104
If I would eat at this hour, I wouldn't probably sleep well.

661
00:41:02,624 --> 00:41:04,004
Grass-fed ribeyes, I hope.

662
00:41:04,904 --> 00:41:06,064
At this hour, cool.

663
00:41:06,184 --> 00:41:07,204
But yeah, for a cool one, maybe.

664
00:41:07,364 --> 00:41:08,104
So enjoy.

665
00:41:08,484 --> 00:41:10,544
I guess for you, Zach, it's still pretty early.

666
00:41:10,864 --> 00:41:12,244
Yeah, we got lunch here.

667
00:41:12,504 --> 00:41:12,984
Lunch time.

668
00:41:13,584 --> 00:41:13,904
Okay.

669
00:41:14,264 --> 00:41:17,264
No, I just want to finish with the shortest horror story ever, mate.

670
00:41:17,404 --> 00:41:17,904
No, I'm just kidding.

671
00:41:18,204 --> 00:41:19,304
But have you read about it?

672
00:41:19,304 --> 00:41:20,324
It's super cool.

673
00:41:20,444 --> 00:41:22,784
I remind, I will remind this about a couple days ago.

674
00:41:22,784 --> 00:41:25,604
And it says that the last man on earth sat alone in a room.

675
00:41:26,004 --> 00:41:26,924
There was a knock on the door.

676
00:41:27,264 --> 00:41:27,564
That's it.

677
00:41:27,684 --> 00:41:28,284
It's horrifying.

678
00:41:29,324 --> 00:41:29,544
Bail.

679
00:41:29,764 --> 00:41:30,744
This is super cool.

680
00:41:31,264 --> 00:41:34,484
Actually, I'm working on this fiction book with 12 different stories.

681
00:41:34,684 --> 00:41:41,704
I think I will try to do something with that one because it's a very creepy, cool, intelligent story.

682
00:41:41,904 --> 00:41:42,424
So thank you.

683
00:41:42,604 --> 00:41:46,484
It's obviously a velociraptor and you're obviously in Jurassic Park 48.

684
00:41:46,484 --> 00:41:47,084
Yeah.

685
00:41:49,304 --> 00:41:51,304
Absolutely.

686
00:41:51,304 --> 00:41:54,304
Well, Zach, thank you very much for your time.

687
00:41:54,304 --> 00:41:56,304
Silali, it was a pleasure to have you again.

688
00:41:56,304 --> 00:41:58,304
We will continue doing more of this episode, guys.

689
00:41:58,304 --> 00:42:01,304
This is the first one of the year, but there's more to come.

690
00:42:01,304 --> 00:42:05,304
And yeah, see you on the regular schedule next week.

691
00:42:05,304 --> 00:42:06,304
So thank you, guys.

692
00:42:06,304 --> 00:42:07,304
Thank you.

693
00:42:07,304 --> 00:42:08,304
Thank you. Bye bye.

694
00:42:08,304 --> 00:42:09,304
Ciao, guys.

695
00:42:12,304 --> 00:42:16,304
Hold on. I need to do this to remind that here's going to be a cut.

696
00:42:16,304 --> 00:42:24,084
is it like some kind of smartphone yeah because you know that when you do post actually i do that

697
00:42:24,084 --> 00:42:29,864
in the in the podcast when i do the game i also clap because it's going a good way so i know that

698
00:42:29,864 --> 00:42:35,124
i need to put the clip of the previous guest so interesting sorry about that the app just totally

699
00:42:35,124 --> 00:42:38,544
crashed but now that i'm on the web browser version it's got a totally different gamma

700
00:42:38,544 --> 00:42:47,824
setting on the camera man whatever okay um yeah it just hard crashed take two