You are listening to The Brian D. O'Leary Show, your sanctuary for
serious content in an unserious culture.
All right, Brian O'Leary here with you with, today with Scott Fischbuch,
who is a Jungian Typology expert.
We've had him on the show in the past and we got to know a little bit about Scott's
story, how he got there and whatnot.
But today, as per the promise of probably about a year ago, Scott, I think, but, a
little more perhaps, I wanted to have you back on to do what you do best... for me.
You agreed to do that, which is to type me and, how you do
your business, which is called ToolsWithScott.com, the website's there.
We've got a website that will be what, updated or maybe
a brand new one, I believe.
Yeah.
Which , is, which is cool.
It, it includes a lot of so originally the first website, I hadn't had a website
and then I wanted to do a retreat, and so I made a website just for the
retreat basically, which went very well.
And now I'm building out a website that includes a more robust explanation of what
I'm doing and how I do it, and then how to getting just a regular business website.
It just sounds like a big deal to me since I haven't done it before, but yeah.
Yeah.
Coming soon, shall we say, which and then on there, your offerings
would be one-on-one consulting and or coaching, depending on how you label
that or how the client labels it.
Mm-hmm.
Corporate consulting the one-on one stuff really focuses on personal growth and
a little bit of encouragement, I think based on what your typology, right?
And then the corporate consulting is to kind get the, your teams working
in conjunction with each other.
What a little more fluidly, I believe you say.
Yeah.
Today what I had in mind, and I think we came to , consensus of the Minds is
that we'll dive in head first to step one of what Scott Fischbuch does on his one
on one personal consulting, and you're, we'll get a little flavor of what he does.
And I'm an open book here.
As far as I know, and Scott's just gonna do his work for us today, and
it's like step one of Scott's program.
So, a little flavor of what you might get working with Scott.
And I know that a lot of people that I work with also work with
Scott and nothing but good feedback.
So here we go.
Scott, I'm gonna give you the floor
high praise.
yeah, so, basically for, so, prior to, meeting, I'd have a,
like a brief preamble, which is basically we're just gonna talk.
And my job while we're talking is to pay attention to certain
preferences in conversation and certain topics that they prefer.
Certain terms of phrase, and that might sound really
nondescript and kind of vague.
But they fall into different categories, just like ingredients in a recipe.
And I can say, okay, here's this ingredient, here's this ingredient.
These ingredients go into a soup.
These ingredients make up bread, right?
And so that's exactly what I'm doing, except the ingredients in this case
are topics, turns of phrase, certain behavioral mannerisms and so on.
And then at the end we say this is a biscuit, or this is a right.
And then to pause.
There's lots of types of biscuits, but this is a bi.
Okay, I don't want to get lost in that analogy.
Say taste the biscuit.
There's a nice internet meme going around taste the biscuit.
Yeah.
I got a quick question here.
Can, if I got a, if I have a question, can I stop you or
would you just prefer me to just.
All right, so one quick question.
You say turns of phrase, could that not only be personality typing,
but what region of the country or the world you're from or Yeah.
Is, are we talking about something entirely different?
Yeah, absolutely.
There, there's completely a cultural overlay onto a personality type.
Yeah.
You take somebody from that has an idiom from the northeast and put
'em in the southwest and they don't know what they're talking about.
Same thing if you go from, United States to Australia or England or whatever, it's
I don't have any idea what you're saying.
Right.
Yeah.
So absolutely.
Cultural norms and preferences influence the way.
A person develops the type of parents they have, everything
influences a person's personality.
What I'm getting at is not those influences, but the core wiring
that those influences are a part of.
So think of what I'm doing is I'm finding the make and model of your
car, but what you've done and where you've been and who you've driven with,
that's a completely different sphere.
Got it.
So you could go offroading with a minivan if you wanted to.
Most minivans don't do that, but you could.
And so what I'm trying to say is this is a minivan.
Okay.
Alright.
But let's roll.
Let's do it.
So tell me a little bit about what inspired your podcast and remember
for the listener, what I'm trying to do is just pay attention to.
Okay.
It makes it a little less organic when I have to do the explanation, kind of
like a comedian explaining why the funny,
it's fine.
Yeah, it's fine.
Okay.
Okay, cool.
This is a masterclass, Scott, what you're doing.
It's a masterclass.
I'll answer the question.
I've answered, I don't know if I've actually answered it on this podcast
I have on others, but what inspired me to do podcasting in general is that I
don't know the initial kernel, however I started listening to podcasts.
Long ago, like before podcasts, I even had a pod or a phone to,
I listen 'em on the computer.
'cause it was like a lot of times just radio shows clipped down to
listen to and reasonable size.
And I was like, oh man, that's kind of neat.
And then people actually had podcasts.
I'm like, oh, that's cool.
I always kinda wanted to do radio, but I didn't know how to do it.
And then, fast forward like 10 years of I just, I have this in the back of my
mind and I love to get into radio and get maybe a podcast might be a cool thing.
I never did anything about it.
Scott.
I never did anything.
I just like, oh, that'd be cool.
I just, I don't even know where to start.
And then in 2020, saw the world collapsing and I might have better start
doing what I want to do or need to do.
Right now, because I don't know if I'm ever gonna get a chance to do it again.
So I called up a buddy of mine.
I said, I've been thinking about doing the sports podcast
for about five years, 10 years.
I don't even know.
Do you wanna do it with me?
He's like, that'd be awesome.
Let's do it.
So we, yeah, recorded the first, or we did episode one, sat
down, talked about some things.
There was no sports going on, by the way, and it was called
Sportlanders the Podcast.
And we didn't even record the first episode because neither of
us could figure out how to do that.
It's not that hard, but it's just like one of those stumbling blocks.
Anyway, fast forward few months.
He doesn't have time to do it.
I barely have time to do it, but I really like doing it, like scratched an itch.
So I continued this podcast about sports until it got to the point
where I'm just like, I can't, I. Do this on a regular basis because it's
not as important to me as a lot of other things going on in the culture.
And
so sports kind of took a backseat and it's that was my life.
And so I got in the Tom Woods School of Life and we started
these accountability groups that you and I are now in one together.
And I said, well, I don't know what I'm gonna do.
I like, I I'm not gonna podcast anymore just because I don't want to do sports.
They're like, you got a podcast, like you got the setup, you
got the, you got it all.
And I said, well, I don't really have any idea what I'm in a podcast about.
And so they're like, you better just come up with an idea and
present it to us next week.
I'm like, oh boy.
Well, I'm gonna get to work.
So I've been writing a bunch of emails, and so I just read an
email and put it out as a podcast.
Little bit of commentary.
Then I got Jeremy Evans on my podcast, and then they're like, all
right what is your podcast about?
I'm like, I dunno.
And I said, well, I'm gonna have about a hundred of you people on the show, and
that's going in to inform my direction.
And Scott, you were one of the early ones on the show also, and I think we've got
like 25 or 30 folks from the Tom Woods School of Life to tell their story on
the on the program here, which is great.
And it allowed me to keep doing this and have an inspiration to keep doing
this along with speaking my own mind.
And then it also opened up other doors to work more, actually, ironically,
within the Tom Woods School of Life that it was something I was never
expecting, but it's wonderful that I get to meet with, dozens of people
every week and hear their stories.
Not on a, public consumption podcast, but just like going back
and forth and learn how to attack life, which is exactly what you do.
And anyway, long story short is that keeps me going also to keep this podcast
going and get my voice out there and get the voices of other people that
I know that are inspiring out there.
So anyway I hope that answered the question.
Yeah.
I think we're, so first off I've done it enough where I can do the thing.
And also listen, really inspiring story.
really cool.
And then within that I have all of the little analytics going on.
So now we can talk a little bit about some things that I noticed.
So first you, most of what you're relaying, as you're talking
about is your subjective personal experience in relation to the past.
You were able to hop back into the past and say, this happened, then
this happened, then this happened and then they all kind of came
from you as a subjective source.
So if that sounds confusing, what I mean is if you were at a oh, and just to label
that, that's called introverted sensing.
Okay.
And so let's compare, let's contrast that with.
A preference or a focus on the experience of other people to the exclusion of
your own personal subjective awareness.
So think about knowing what makes you comfortable versus knowing
what makes someone else comfortable knowing what you've experienced in
the past versus paying attention to what other people are experiencing.
It's a, so that's the distinction line.
So that's one thing I observed.
And so if you're an in introverted sensor, you're also an extroverted intuitive.
And so what that means is, what I want is not clear to me.
What I want is not clear to me, but what I do prioritize is
what other people want to do.
So I want to be a facilitator of the goals and interests of others.
By preference.
It doesn't mean you will always do that.
It just means it's a natural fit.
It feels good to be delivering on what other people want.
What do other people desire?
Can I fulfill those goals and desires?
And so that's the introverted sensing, extrovert intuition, axis.
They flow together.
We won't worry about explaining that in depth, but half of the
personality types have that access.
The other half have a different one.
Okay.
So right now we're down to eight.
So as you're talking, you are staying on topic.
On topic.
Anyone who is listening to you.
So I presented the question as, what inspired you to do the podcast you said.
Here are the things relating to the movement of the podcast.
In my experience, what drove me to do it, what the inspirations are, what
key events happened in that in that movement, you stayed on topic throughout
the entire arc of what you were saying.
So that is called direct communication.
And then also in that same vein, we have responding.
So we have direct and responding.
I am an informative communicator, which is the opposite side of direct, which
means I pivot topics and hop around and say a bunch of words and allow
people to select and choose what they do with the information that I provide.
Direct communicators have a tendency to deliver the information that
was requested, and that's it.
What was requested.
That's it.
And the more informative you are, the more you expand from the point of reference,
which is what inspired your podcast.
So if you had asked me that question, I'm doing it right now, by the way.
I'm hopping around a lot.
So if a listener was listening to me, this is what informative
communication sounds like.
And contrast that to what Brian is doing, which is topic focused,
clear communication relating to the original question.
And then mine is hopping around a lot.
So Brian is a direct communicator and he is introverted sensing,
extroverted intuition access.
So now we're down to four types.
There are only four types that have those trends in common.
Okay.
So we have ESTJ, ISTJ.
Who else would've the direct?
So there's 16 in total, so I'm sort of running the 16th through my head,
figuring out which ones do which.
So I've done for it.
I've done like the tests, the Myers-Briggs analysis or something similar.
And I think I've mentioned to you in the past what those revealed.
Very confused.
So I think the last one I took was IN is that, yeah.
Okay.
So I didn't know if that
Right.
So one thing.
I don't even know what that means right now.
So in intuitives have a preference for broad explanatory conversations
relating to concepts and theories.
They're also hyper future oriented.
We wanna be projecting into the future, and I say we because I also would
represent a member of this category.
So let me explain some evidence and then you can decide if that fits.
So I have said up until this point, that you are, and S and the points of reference
I would use to argue that point are
what does S mean?
Direct.
S means concrete.
We don't have to explain anything.
It's, it just is.
So you say, I talk to my friend.
Okay.
My friend's name is this.
And then N?
N would be what?
I was on a journey of self-discovery
in one word you say concrete for s and then N would be
abstract.
Abstract.
Okay.
So I'm communicating in a way an abstract person would be like,
I was trying to find myself.
I was seeking to learn more about who I was.
And you're like, this is what I did.
And then I, and then there might be a little bit of abstraction there.
I didn't know what I wanted but in the end, they're actual data points.
This is the name of my friend.
This is what happened on the first podcast.
This is what we did.
Well, this is what I did actually.
This is how long it took Scott.
On our first podcast.
We did this is what we're doing now.
No one has to wonder, and even as I'm communicating, you can
say I'm an abstract communicator.
'cause I'm not actually giving the details.
You gave the details.
You said Scott, on that podcast we talked about typology and we talked
about your past and we talked.
It was there, there isn't a need to wonder about the material that's
being presented so abstract are these sort of broad conceptualization.
So for instance if we're talking about the word honor.
Honor, it's this floaty concept of virtuousness capacity,
perhaps bravery loyalty.
It's an umbrella term.
For lots of things.
A sensor would say, my grandpa was honorable.
There is a real literal representation of this concept.
My grandma was an honorable woman.
And then you could say, these are the things these are the exact
moments in which I felt that my grandma was an honorable woman.
And you would pull these things from your personal history attached to this concept.
So the concept informs the theory and not vice versa.
Okay.
I don't wanna get too into that.
Alright.
So yeah, keep on going.
Do your thing.
Yeah.
So right now we have sensing.
Okay, we have, and not only do we have sensing, we have
that it's introverted sensing.
So it's which attaches in an axis.
These two are always together.
Introverted sensing and extrovert intuition.
They always run in pairs.
So extrovert intuition says, this is my pass is my subjective awareness.
This is the physical thing that I experienced, and I remember it over time.
This is the recipe to success that I've experienced in the past.
I will repeat it diligently over and over to avoid chaos and problems.
And then expert intuition says, how can we pivot this?
What could we do?
What could happen differently?
And then depending on how much you use introverted sensing versus how much
you use extroverted intuition, there will be a seesaw or an imbalance, or
an imbalance in the other direction.
So high SI users will struggle with a bunch of chaos occurring.
So they seek to create bounds rules and structures to alleviate this chaos.
So think about the karate master that comes in and says, class, we have arrived.
We will ground, we will become calm.
These are the rules of the dojo that should be followed so that we can
have an ordered and efficient class.
Right?
That's he's a sensitive or sensing introvert there,
is that what you're saying?
Okay.
Yep.
Got it.
Okay.
So now let's pivot just for sake of time.
So right now we've done the S and the N. So we lean S you're a direct communicator,
so you're an ISTJ or an ESTJ, essentially.
And then.
Not that this would distinguish between the two, but the words you're saying
are connected to introverted feeling.
So as you're talking, you're using words like, I loved it.
It was amazing.
I found that I was passionate about this.
It's personal feeling, personal conviction.
This is what I like.
I know that I like it.
Whether everyone else likes it, we'll find out.
But I know that I like it.
I know that I'm passionate about it.
It'd be cool if everybody else liked it, but I know in my soul that
baseball sports is something I enjoy.
However, I struggle with starting, right?
I struggle with initiating, I struggle with beginning.
But since you've begun, you've been going like at a rocket
pace, pulling in new things.
New things are happening.
New things are occurring, but you didn't plan on those
things, you so what we have is.
Direct
responding
concrete,
and we have, what else do we have?
I have a big chart that I just kind of run through my mind right when I
do this, but it's not like having one in front of you, so I actually kind of
have to pause and think about things.
I think that you're systematic
and I think that you're affiliative.
What's that mean?
Affiliative?
It means that group buy-in is important.
I'm not gonna enforce upon you this worldview that I have.
I wanna make sure that it dances well with the tribe.
I wanna make sure that the thing that I'm offering to everyone has
consensus and buy-in before I proceed.
I'm not gonna, like for instance, you work in the Tom Woods School
of Life you have an idea about how to run the call differently.
Instead of just doing it, you would probably seek feedback from superiors or
feedback from peers prior to applying it.
Yeah, I don't do that.
I, right.
So I would represent the other category, which is pragmatic.
I am more likely I might consider it, but it'll be an afterthought.
It'll be like, well, I guess technically I could get some permission here, but
I really don't care about it as much.
I've had to learn to care.
Does that make sense?
It's funny you say that, Scott, because if I were to analyze myself, I would
not analyze it in that same way that you articulated, because I think oh, I
gathered my info, here's how I do it, and then I'm just, I am doing it my own way.
But no, I did go and source, I talked to David before I took over his slot.
I talked to him, I talked to a few of the members about how they do it.
And then I, I kind of sourced how it was not kind of, but I did source from
members how it was going, how it was better, how it was worse, and then change
it evolve in the in these calls and, each one of these calls is different.
So it's not the same in every single call because the group's different.
Right.
Also, but there are patterns that are very similar throughout how I'm been doing.
Right.
Absolutely.
I learned, I took a lot of information from Jeremy, from Barbara, from
David and a few other people.
So you're still facilitating in your own unique way, but
it is bounded by the feedback.
You've curated your personal approach through the lenses
of the tribe perspective.
It's still you.
No one else is facilitating in a suit, no one else is facilitating
the way that you facilitate.
And I'm not just saying that like you bring your interest in sports.
I don't think the other facilitators have an interest in sports.
Right.
And I'm not saying they're uninterested, just that's not the thing that they do.
So there are clear personal flavors that are not absent in your call.
But prior to the call, you're like, how should we go about
running a call better or work?
How can we be efficient?
I don't wanna run it worse.
I don't wanna run worse,
but what I wanna do is fail.
How can I fail more successfully?
Miserably anyway.
Yeah, yeah.
No that's good.
I think I think all the, all this analysis is pretty good because I
see this, and I, if I can go back a little bit, I, one of my other jobs
that I really liked it was volunteer job as a high school baseball coach.
And all these things apply, like group buy-in.
Very important for team, very important direct concrete instructions to.
The ball players.
It's this is how it's going to be done, otherwise we're going to fail.
You just have to be on the same mission.
Now, I might not want to be that way in my own personal life, but when I get
into professional situations, that's how I believe I have to be in order for
any amount of success to be achieved.
Yeah.
So, after listening to everything what I'm arriving at is ISTJ.
ISTJ.
Okay.
That's different than what I've gotten in the past, which was I believe INTJ.
But I think a lot of that, Scott, as you're talking because this is a, this
is, believe it or not, folks this 15, 30 minutes, whatever it's been, is a
lot deeper analysis than some Scantron sheet or, click buttons on a website,
kind of thing to figure this out.
But the thing was, I believe, when they ask you questions on these exams
or surveys or whatever they're called
it's hard to be completely accurate 'cause you don't, if you don't
know exactly what they want out of that question, it's hard to answer.
Like on a scale of five or whatever it might be, or,
yeah, very high and very low.
It's like how do I differentiate between high and average or high and very high?
I don't know.
It's subjective.
Yeah, totally subjective.
And that maybe that's part of the deal, but it's hard.
It's hard for me.
So, but I think.
What I may be doing I could be wrong or may have done, was project the
answers that I, in an ideal situation that I would like and that gave me
that N thing because maybe that's who I by like what we said at the top from
culture, like everything around me.
Maybe that's who I thought I was supposed to be or what I was supposed to be
like, even though that might not be me.
Yeah.
We tend to hyperfocus on loud components of our life.
So here's a reference.
The memory of, I have a memory when I was seven, I got trapped out on a
balcony and I stepped on a hornet's nest.
I remember it vividly.
I remember how many hornets stung me.
I remember everything about it.
We have a tendency to remember anomalous intense experience.
Am I stepping on hornet's nests with enough regularity to say
that is a personality trait?
No.
Yeah.
But do I remember it?
Is it very loud in my mind?
Yeah.
Can I remember it decades after it happened?
Absolutely.
So what can often happen in these tests is we say, man, I was really
sensitive in that one situation Two weeks ago, I cried in public.
That's crazy.
I'm a feeler, right?
I'm totally a feeler.
And it's no one else would think that you're a feeler.
You don't ever talk about your feelings, but you're like, I am a feeler.
I remember that day.
It was very intense.
Right.
So those other,
and so that's another thing that can influence those tests.
Yeah.
And also like the proximity to when you're taking the test obviously
the, most of the time memories are more vivid the closer to the time
that you actually experienced them.
Not like the 7-year-old hornet's nest thing.
It's still there because it was such a big deal.
Yeah.
I can't imagine.
I mean, literally stepping on a hornet's nest, and we talk about that as an idiom
or a turn of phrase a lot, and it's like, no, you actually had that happen.
Yeah.
It's super triggering, right?
It's not.
I'm cool, but yeah.
So you'll notice you'll notice these things and that's why
typing can be difficult because.
It requires like a pivot between self and tribe.
And if you highly value what you think, you won't listen to tribe feedback.
If you only value tribe feedback, you won't listen to what you think.
And so it can be, it's this dance between who is more accurate, and in
some ways, each person is going to prefer themselves as the source of the material.
For instance, I would say so with an ISTJ, their own personal
values are loud and memorable, and their own likes and dislikes are
almost immune to, to tribe attack.
So being yourself is effortless.
Okay.
I wanna stop you right there because this is something that's
been vexing me for a long time.
Yeah.
I agree with that.
Analysis number one.
I think that fits me.
Mm-hmm.
However, I don't believe that it always fit me.
And I think from my study of this stuff and from what people tell me is
that no, you're the same, you're the same personality type all your life.
It's like you you have I don't know,
brown hair.
I you, but you don't always have brown hair.
It changes to gray sometimes or might change to red at certain
point in your life, or, yeah.
I don't, can you ex, can you expound on that a little bit because
Absolutely.
Okay.
So, well, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
It sounded like you were flying.
No, no.
I don't really know how to articulate what I'm asking other than I know I've
changed or I've realized something about me is different, right.
Than your personality type.
Yeah.
I was doing, I was operating differently now.
I, as the older I've gotten, and particularly the catalyst
of 2020 really changed that.
Mm-hmm.
Is that I do, I absolutely say I fit that description, what you said, the
ISTJ where it's like my values matter.
I don't care.
I don't really care that much about these other clowns out there who
are trying to destroy my life.
I have no empathy for them.
However, if you're on my side, I had a lot of empathy for you.
I tended to may think, or I tried to empathize with almost everybody
years ago, and I didn't do a good job of it, but that's where, that
was where I was operating from.
You see what I'm saying?
Versus, yeah.
Now I'm more conscious of where I'm at.
I didn't know this about my personality type say, but I, I gleaned enough
information to say eh, I have my priorities and I have my life rules
and whatever they might be, and you're not gonna change 'em because
I've already experienced them and I've settled on this, this, and this.
Yeah.
So real, real quick
not to get this into a therapy session, Scott, but anyway, go ahead.
Oh yeah.
Alright.
Take a seat on the chair.
We'll figure out what happened in your childhood.
Yeah, yeah.
The so, so what can happen, and I wanna bring up something I mentioned before.
Before Absolutely.
We change Absolutely.
There's nurture.
Like for instance, I can learn how to play basketball, but there are
natural abilities and strengths that I have that might make me
better or worse at basketball.
Right, right.
But over time I'm be like, I wanna do basketball now.
Like in, let's say I decide to do that when I'm 60.
That's not the best time to get good at basketball, but you totally could do it.
You totally could.
And then you'd be the best 60-year-old basketball player, presumably
or something along those lines.
So there preferences and interests and focuses can, and do change over time.
And that doesn't change our core personality.
It just changes where we put our emphasis and focus.
So for instance, an ISTJ and again I'm just saying this from
a more system-y kind of look.
This is a I don't want to get, 'cause this can get real complex real
quick, but, so I'm gonna avoid that.
But we have with the ISTJ, we'll stick to the Jungian typology stuff.
Okay.
Or you could say MBTI there's a whole bunch of, systems involved in this.
So just real quick, any MBTI
Myers-Briggs?
Yeah.
Myers and Briggs essentially took Jung's stuff and they're like,
how can we turn this into a test?
And then they made a test.
Okay, that's it.
That's what happened there.
Got it.
And so when you have that test, it's Myers and Briggs making a test for
Carl Jung's observations, and then you have Dr. Linda Barons, and she's like,
but how do people actually behave?
How do they interact?
And then d Dr. David Kersey is, like, well, what are they kind
of like, inside their mind?
All of these co inform this big thing that I'm using?
And then you have Dr. John Bebe and he's like, let's look at the exact
functions and lenses and what are the cognitive preferences for each of these.
It gets really complex really quickly.
But returning to your question, how is it.
That I am the thing that you described just now, Scott, but I wasn't
really like that when I was younger.
And the answer is we sort of moved down our functional stack as we age and we're
like, oh so just for reference we have introverted sensing at the top, so I kind
of always know how I'm doing physically.
That's not hard for me to do.
I kind of always know if I need to sleep.
I know if if I'm hungry.
I know.
Just so you know, some people have no clue.
The Forrest Gump idea.
There's I'm hungry, I eat.
If I'm tired, I sleep.
Yeah.
It's yes.
Yeah, exactly.
And some people I just want to tell you are utterly out of touch
with their physical experience.
Almost completely.
So it basically allows them to work tirelessly without stopping.
But of course it takes a toll on their body, which is fine.
'cause they don't notice.
Okay.
And so these are the type of people that can work themselves to death or they get
crazy diseases because they're ignoring their body while they're accruing all
this sort of social pressure work pressure physiological issues with their diet.
And they're able to ignore it all.
So it's a superpower and a curse, you could say.
And then being highly attuned, you can't ignore your body.
You have to just endure either, okay, I'm just gonna be hungry.
I feel it, and then push past it.
So that's kind of what introverted sensing does.
So are the folks that are like Iron Men and ultra marathoners and that type of
thing, are you saying that is more of that, that extroverted sensing where
it's definitely what Yeah, absolutely.
It trends that way.
Anyway.
It trends strongly that way.
Strongly.
Probably 90%.
Okay.
Makes sense.
Would be the extroverted sensing types.
That makes sense.
And then there's some crazy SI people that just know how to shut off or
endure to a degree that's insane.
They are not common, but they are in those realms, but they're rare.
You can kind of tweak that in a way, or like to get more attuned
to that one side, for instance.
I mean, I, not to be too abstract, but.
But right now for in the Catholic religion, it's the season of Lent.
And so you are called on too fast.
The fasting rules have changed quite a bit over the par
particular last 50 years or so.
However, it's encouraged that, fast, and then the term fast means
different things to different people.
But historically fasting was no food and oftentimes no water.
I've pushed myself over the last several years to fast a few days
at a time and just to see not only following, religious practices, but
also just to see if I can do it and like what all these people in the past
have done and how they endured it.
And this year, honestly, I've, probably not even supposed to talk about it early
until the whole thing's done, but I failed a few times where I have it on
my calendar, like today's a fast day and I'm like, oh I just can't do it.
I got too many things to do.
I'm hungry.
And I just said, I'll let it slip.
And then I had to double down last week.
I just come on, man, on my calendar.
I said I had something marked out.
I'm like yeah this means no food for real.
For real.
And then some, sometimes, it is, no, no eating until like noon or
00 PM or whatever, and whatever.
But the idea is that you can, that's very hard for me and it's very hard
for a lot of people to do that.
Some people, it's not, like you said, it's no problem.
They have no struggle with fasting because they'll just like, like you
said, eat whenever or exercise whenever.
Like I gotta go out for a walk every once in a while just to kind move the blood.
My head straight.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And I just sat here all day.
It'd be tough, but anyway.
Yeah.
It would be bad for you.
Yeah.
The I just thought this was really interesting.
So here's a great thing to point out.
You asked me, Scott.
This is the difference between informative and direct.
I just noticed that I did it.
You had asked me, Scott I really identify with what you're saying now, but I
didn't use to, what's up with that?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And then I went all over the place and I started talking about fasting,
and then you're like, fasting.
It's really, I didn't answer your question.
I went in all these different directions.
Okay.
And then we got on fasting and so I don't know.
So that meta analysis, uhhuh, so me looking at what I'm doing and being
like, Scott, what are you doing?
He actually asked, I have to work really, really hard to just answer the question.
Okay.
I have a, it's, yeah.
Yeah.
It's interesting.
Okay.
Do you have to kind of tweak certain areas of your personality, say,
to be effective at the job you do?
To raise one lower the other.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And it's tiring.
Or it is just, it's just becoming flexible.
You're like, oh okay, I wanna go run really fast.
Okay, well, I don't want to be pulling any muscles now that I'm running really fast
now I need to go stretch my hamstrings.
Oh man, my hamstrings are really tight.
Okay.
It's just like you're stretching your mind, you're stretching your
abilities, you're stretching your capacities to engage with all
the different types of people.
Right.
They're the people that would naturally fit you.
And then there are people that kind of fit you, and then
there's people that don't fit.
And then in, in each case, you have to figure out, can I move how I am delivering
myself in a way that makes this valuable?
To the other side.
In this case I have to figure out and then you'll be asking the same
questions but in a different way.
Like a, am I accomplishing what Scott's setting out to do?
Are we being efficient?
Are we doing the thing?
Like we're all, everybody has a little vision of how things are supposed to go.
Yeah.
But it's funny you say that because I tend to be a bit direct, I guess.
I don't see myself that way, but maybe, but I also.
I, before we went on, I said I'm, I didn't say this in these terms, but I like, I'm
giving you the runway to take it wherever you want to go, because I'm not part, I'm
constrained by time insofar as it's gotta be probably done within the next hour.
But I said, I think this is a really interesting topic.
I really want to get into it because you, I know you Scott, and
we talk almost every week, and I'm getting glimpses of this, right?
So I want you to be able to and for other people to come in and explore what it
is that you do because, and that'll give everybody, I think a better idea of where
you're coming from and even more to the point where what you mentioned earlier
about how you can get tired or exhausted or it's o overload kind of thing.
And I see that.
Every once in a while.
I don't wanna get too far outta school.
You can stop me at any time here.
But there's some days where you've been doing like many of these meetings,
one on, or consulting, you know, with a large group and you're bushed man.
I can tell.
You're just, you're there.
You're there.
'cause you committed to show up.
Yeah.
But your day was already over a few hours ago.
Yeah.
And right.
Yeah.
That's funny.
And but the thing is you come in and I, now I'm understanding why I'm like, ah.
It's just, you're just talking to people.
But the other thing you say is I'm exhausted, except.
I loved it.
It was so rewarding and yeah, and it's what you do.
And so you have the passion, so not only you can work through that
exhaustion, just like that ultra marathon runner, if that makes any sense.
Right.
Because it's the passion that you have.
You're not working through it necessarily, you're accepting it
and, compartmentalizing it more if I, if that analysis is correct.
Yeah, yeah.
That, that, that's exactly right.
And I suppose if we're going back into what happens in a call.
So.
A little more conversational,
BrianDOLeary.com/tsol if you wanna sign up for Tom's School of Life.
There you go.
Thanks.
Yeah.
Anyway.
Nice.
Yeah.
The and then okay but if we're on a call, I'd be like, okay, I have to do the thing.
I have to, so the next steps we would go into, so we typed them and
then there's a conversation where they're like, oh, I am that way.
Aha.
That's so interesting.
And then there's this sort of rapport okay.
Developed.
And then they're like, okay, so you get me.
So now I can trust your BS stuff like your your little words and 'cause
a lot of times people are like, why am I gonna learn all this vocab?
Why would I do that if you don't get it?
And getting it is typing them and then making sure that they feel that you
understand where they're coming from.
In a cognitive way, because before that, why would they respect
anything that you say, right?
Like you're just some guy?
Like you need to show your capacity.
Yeah.
So after that depending on the type,
is that universal?
That is a universal thing?
That's a universal, okay.
People need to know that you're not an idiot in the way that they value.
Like if you're a banker and you're gonna have a conversation about
banking, you're gonna need to, hear industry specific terminology.
You're gonna need to see cleanness in the way that they're organized and present
themselves because it's a numbers game.
It's an accounting game.
If you're gonna be talking to an artist, you're gonna wanna see an aesthetic that's
beautiful and interesting, and that should be representative in their clothing.
You won't necessarily be interested.
Maybe they will be smart and well-spoken, but it's not necessary that they are
because an artist does this other thing.
And then if you're talking to a pro warrior, you was
taking it for granted that he or she might not be as articulate or
whatever, but you can sense it or whatever from the wardrobe or the
way they carry themselves or more so
Absolutely.
The speech patterns.
Right, right.
We're giving off signals all day long.
All day long we're giving off signals and we're aware and unaware of a lot of
the signals that we're presenting, and just because we don't value those signals
doesn't mean that they don't matter.
People will judge you for how you present yourself.
Full stop.
They will make determinations.
Now, whether they're negative or positive or neutral or objective, they're going to
think something based upon what they see.
They're gonna say, oh, he's beautiful.
Oh he has he's white.
Oh, he's got he wears collared shirts.
He likes to be comfy 'cause he is wearing sweats and pajamas.
He's highly professional, right?
So, for instance, yeah, someone that sees khakis and a messy button-up shirt or
not a fashionable, but a professional, they're like accountant energy.
You're filling the box of like.
Clean, professional, organized, rule follower, but you're
not beautifully dressed.
Does that make sense?
It does make sense quite a bit.
And getting back to the dress, if we ever have this on video, you'll
see the way I'm dressed, dressed in springtime colors because it's,
it stemmed from a conversation that our group had the other night.
Yeah.
With Scott is they're kind of making fun of Scott's background and they're
like, oh, Scott, you need to match the background with your shirt.
It's like, , come on.
And anyway, so I was like, well, yeah, all these past, all these pastel colors.
I said, well, I'll show up on Saturday when I'm recording this
with Scott and I'll show him that I can match my background.
I can match the background or any background with my wardrobe.
What I was going to get to as far as wardrobe goes, so some people
say, oh yeah, uh, I'm comfy 'cause I wear a t-shirt and sweats.
Well, yeah, that's comfy for me at a certain part of the day, at night,
I'm not comfortable at all going to the grocery store in sweatpants
and a t-shirt I that freaks me out.
I'm un under, I'm almost not dressed at that point.
But some people are perfectly fine, right?
Yep.
Yeah.
And then some people need to get in their formal pajamas and to go
to even think about going to sleep.
I, like you said earlier, I'll go to sleep when I'm tired sometimes,
it's just I'll fall asleep and all of my clothes and I just fall asleep.
Yep.
But it does, I do get more comfortable when I get into that mode of sleep.
And now on these podcasts, I don't care what the other person wears, but
for me doing this job, I feel a lot more comfortable in a collared shirt.
And I usually wear a sport coat if I'm in a, any moderately professional
or a sweater or something, depending like how I'm feeling.
But that's just kinda what I do and I'm comfortable that way.
So, other people are perfectly comfortable on T-shirt.
I don't care.
Now, if you came to the office in sweatpants and a t-shirt and the whole
pair of worn out sneakers, it's just, I'm gonna be thinking about that all the time.
It's just not gonna work.
Right.
But on the zoom call or on, you know, whatever that, it's perfectly fine.
'cause we see pretty much everybody from the shoulders up.
It doesn't really matter.
Yeah we're sort of getting into like just idiosyncratic behavior with people.
Okay.
Not personality.
No, no, no.
I'm not.
Well, no, but okay.
But when we're talking about to label it, we're having a conversation about
comfort and then we're looking at a spectrum of personal comfort to the
exclusion of societal preferences.
And social awareness.
Right.
That's really the conversation we're having.
So if I was oblivious, oblivious to the experience I was presenting other
people, it would not be a problem to be a slob because it wouldn't be
hitting me in the face that I was.
Failing to adhere to standards of behavior.
'cause all I was aware of was my own personal experience.
You are like 99.9% I intuition, right?
Yeah.
Or introverted sensing.
Well, right, and regardless of whether we label, but yes.
Yeah.
And in that case actually most, so that's usually the NPs.
Okay.
And especially the INTPs, like my type has an easy tendency
to just ignore everything.
I have stains on my shirt, whatever you know, it's not a big deal 'cause we
have what's called a trickster function.
And our trickster function represents extroverted sensing,
which is the experience that you're giving other people.
You, the experience that you're giving other people is extroverted,
sensing you're seventh function you're blind to, and you don't
even know you're terrible at it.
You have no idea you're terrible at your seventh function.
So there's eight total.
There's four that you're aware of, one that you're kind of bad at, one that
you're effortlessly good at, two that are kind of balanced in the middle.
And then these ones that pop into your consciousness under duress, they'll pop
into your consciousness when problems emerge that you are struggling to handle.
And then they're like, okay.
Like for instance, if you're obsessed with what you think, obsessed with what
you think, obsessed with what you think, finally one day you're like, I'm gonna
listen to the tribe I'm gonna finally humble myself and get some feedback.
Right?
Or it would be like I'm obsessed with how I'm feeling, I'm
obsessed with how I'm feeling.
I'm obsessed with my mood and my stuff.
I'm gonna pay attention to how the tribe's doing.
Every now and then, we'll pivot into these sides of ourselves that
we would rather not unless under duress, unless a stressful event
has occurred, that forces us to use what are called shadow functions.
And our shadow functions are used consciously.
Like they know they're doing it by other personality types.
They're just unconscious for us.
Right.
Some people are hyper aware of the experience they're giving.
They look fantastic all the time.
And they're trying to look fantastic.
If they're uncomfortable, who cares?
What matters is looking good, right?
And then the SI people are like, yeah, but who cares about looking good
if you feel uncomfortable all day?
Right?
Yeah.
Right.
And so there's the, there are these dichotomies, but there
exist people that don't give a crap about how comfy they are.
They don't care.
Right.
It's the high heels.
Some people, some women will wear them all the time.
And some people, some women will just wear them only in at some
highbrow function and only for a certain amount of time because it's,
and then they're mad and then they're like, oh, thank God.
And then they take off all their stuff and they're like, oh man the patriarchy
oppresses me to wear these heels.
And it's this sort of animosity for, and some are like, thank
goodness I get to look great.
And they're like, yes, these rules are not oppressive.
This is the race I wanna win.
I'm cool with all the rules.
And it's just weird what we chafe against as people, like
what can we not put up with?
Let me ask you a question on that last topic of the trickster function.
If you were to analyze me right now, what, and maybe you've said it already,
and that might be the trickster in me, but what is, would you gather would be my
trickster function that I'm unaware of, would I, that I'm unaware of or bad at?
Unaware of and bad at because unaware and bad it's hard to be good at
something that you're unaware of.
I guess in theory, it's possible.
Essentially you, in order to get good at it, you have to pretend to care.
And that takes effort.
So you have to have really good reasons to pretend to care, and then
eventually by mirroring other people, displaying that skill, you can accrue
it and develop it for yourself.
Got you can mimic it.
You can pretend to do it.
And at a certain point, you'll accrue the capacity, the muscle memory.
So essentially if you had no nerve endings in your legs, right?
But they still have the skeleton.
You could learn to walk.
You could learn to walk, but no one would look at you and be like.
He's walking real good.
He's doing a great job.
You'd be like this, you'd be, because, you don't have any nerve
endings there, but you can walk.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
What would you say?
My, so that's my trickster function might be or is?
Oh extroverted feeling.
So I will ignore and not process my emotional response to a thing.
What really matters is how everyone else is feeling like it, it doesn't
matter about my experience, it matters.
Is the vibe being respected?
Are we cool?
Okay.
So you're saying that I'm valuing the feelings and thoughts of
others more so than my own.
Is that opposite?
I am valuing my own feelings more so than of the group.
Yeah.
And I wanna be clear, this is not an accusation.
I wanna just label it because oftentimes it can, it's like,
Hey, this, you're bad at this.
And it's, yeah.
It's valid be, and I'm thinking about it in terms of, my things I've done in the
past, and particularly with coaching, like ball coaching, it translates
to what I'm doing now a little bit.
But, a lot of coaching conventions and stuff, a lot of coaches say, yeah, we just
gotta be empathetic to our ball players, our fellow coaches, all this stuff.
And it's like, man, it's not, it's, you're not just pressing a button
and, producing empathy for people.
And I think it's a, I and I don't know, I've struggled with defining empathy.
And I've done a lot of reading about it, and it's one of the, one of
the books I read, it's nah, there's no such actual thing as empathy.
It's like always a kind of a the carrot and the stick.
It's al it is always out there.
You're never gonna get it, you're never gonna get true empathy.
But it's a standard or a something to reach for the idea.
The ideal is up there, but the reality really doesn't exist.
I don't know where you come out on that or if you've ever thought
about it or do that at all, but I tie that into the extroverted
feeling is more empathetic in nature.
There's two, two kind of competing thoughts perhaps, but...
to clarify.
Oh, and I wanna be, and.
In case there's any misunderstanding, and I'm not saying you misunderstood.
FI says, I, it's the definition of sympathy.
I have felt this thing, therefore, I can understand the feeling that you have.
I am not taking on your feeling, I am feeling from myself with you.
Because I too have felt that.
So it's coming from a, from within and then, yeah.
Sympathy different than empathy for sure.
And empathy by definition is, I don't really know.
And maybe I have had experience with that, but it's not necessary.
Like the other day I have extroverted feeling.
I got really sad all of a sudden because the person in front of me was getting sad.
And I was like, oh no.
And I could feel all the feelings.
Like those weren't, it wasn't my stuff.
And it was just like, oh, you are sad.
And I like, and I knew how they felt.
And it had nothing to do with something I had felt in the past.
It was just taking on like the emotional experience of the people nearby me.
And the higher up the extroverted feeling is, the more intense and aware
you are, and usually because you're more sensitive to it, it affects you more.
Right?
Yeah.
No, I, all right.
I, we've probably got a few more minutes, Scott, don't we?
This is fun.
But I have these meetings on occasion every couple weeks
with the other facilitators within Tom Woods School of Life.
And we talk about anything and everything related to the school about it.
And, some of the, some of 'em know other members and perhaps better than even I do.
And one of the facilitators was talking about a member and oh, like this and this.
I said, I didn't even pick up on that.
I had no idea about a personality trait.
And I'm like it's starting to make sense why, this behavior
and that behavior exhibit.
Good, great people, all of them, but it's oh, no wonder I can't quite get through.
I didn't even recognize that.
But that's what you're saying is going back to probably more of
that extroverted feeling because I'm, it's harder for me to.
'cause it's more concrete.
What I'm seeing You tell me this.
I take in that
Yes.
And subtext.
What is subtext?
Get that outta here.
Let's just stay real.
Quit.
Quit with this weird, fill in the blank mess.
Yeah.
So why would we do that when we could just not do that?
But when that was exposed to me, then I'm, I start thinking, I'm like, I
gotta look a little deeper than what just the words coming out at me are,
because I need to see that a little more.
Not with that member with everybody.
It was a real breakthrough actually.
It gets so complicated once you start doing that, you're
like, oh no, it's too much.
And I can see how, particularly with your personality type
how that can be exhausting.
Yeah.
You're on all the time.
Yeah.
If I were doing podcast, if I were doing podcasts all day long, every
day, radio hosts for crying out loud, four hours is a long day for them.
And then you get some, like the big guys who have a three or four
hour radio show and then an hour of television, and that's a big day.
I'm like, we all work like 8, 9, 10 hours a day doing whatever we're
doing, like getting on air like that.
It sounds fun to me.
Not exhausting, but.
Again, different personality types.
Yeah, yeah.
I was talking to my business partner the other night.
And she said, Scott, is it too late to have a conversation about, and
essentially the topic was analyzing complex data, analyzing complex people
stuff, doing personality typing.
And I was like, Gini Lin, even when I'm exhausted, this is
the easiest energy to summon.
This is the easiest thing that I can do when I am dead tired.
I can do it.
You mean too late in the day to talk about it?
30 PM
Oh wow.
Okay.
So late.
Not late, late in your relation business relationship, but late in the physical day
In the evening.
So essentially the physiological effects of lack of rest are gonna start
emerging later unless you regularly go to bed at that time, which I don't.
But it's the easiest thing in the world to do that.
Now, if you wanted to have me be highly emotionally connected with
you, fully available, I'm gonna need like a five hour warmup.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna need to be fresh in the morning to do a good job.
Like I could do a really terrible job about taking on your emotional experience
and being sympathetic kind and caring.
I can totally do that.
I can . But not in abundant doses.
And it's very hard to do when I myself am tired, whereas.
Analyzing and cohering data and figuring out patterns and conclusions.
I can do that when I haven't slept for two days.
I wouldn't, I would do it poorly.
I can still do it.
And I think that's the difference is like, so those dominant
functions, we always can do them.
It's like breathing.
Right.
So is this brings me to another example when you mention that, and is
this more like a nuance of behavior or is this a personality type that
you would do this or not do it?
So oh yeah, I'm available, but it's going to, I'm just cashing
it in, but I'm available.
I'll do it.
Or.
Would you prefer to just not do it at all until you have that five
minute warm or that five hour warmup?
Or does it matter?
Because
Well, the answer is that's a spectrum and certainly some personality types
will lean in the direction that you described and some will lean in
the other direction you described.
So the NPs don't mind half-assing it.
Okay.
Like they'll show up and do a crappy job.
'cause they're like, yeah, no.
at least something' s getting done?
Some people like, well if you started it, you should finish it
and it needs to be finished properly so those guys just don't start.
Right.
So if, if you're the, so, so, does that make sense?
If you're terrified of leaving a project incomplete.
Probably won't start it.
Unless you know that you have the energy to complete it.
And what if it's one of those huge energy sucking, life changing projects?
It just means you'll never do it unless like a asteroid hits the
earth and then it's time to change.
And then you're like, I'm gonna go.
So it takes some Herculean effort,
podcasting.
Right, right.
And then, okay.
And the flip side is the people that start things, it's almost impossible to finish.
And so they're like, man, isn't it cool that Brian O'Leary
is able to be a coherent?
And he stays responsible.
Wow.
I'm so envious.
But they don't know how hard it was.
To begin.
It's the getting going is often, people are stuck a lot.
And I talk about this a lot.
I have here, I don't know if we have it on video, but I have this kind of like
offensive coordinator's play sheet.
You know, things that come up a lot of time in our calls.
And one, one of the things I say I have just in, in this one square, it
says, stuck some ideas to get unstuck.
Define your mission.
Do something mindlessly boring to don't dwell on this thing and do
something that's totally unrelated, but that's also interesting and creative.
You might have a different system to do that because I haven't
changed this since we had a talk.
It's.
You wanna do the opposite almost to get unstuck.
I think from your personality, Scott, sometimes you'd want to be still
Yeah, I desire, yeah.
It's a different, it's a different thing.
Yeah.
Anyway, I wanted to get back to this point.
I saw this interview.
YouTube, and it was David Letterman early days interviewing Christopher
Reeve, just, not too long after maybe when he was, you know, early
days of the Superman franchise.
And he said, oh man, it must have been great working with Marlon Brando.
And he's like, actually, no, it sucked.
Some, I think that was the language.
He's like, it sucks.
He's like, whoa.
He's like, he's a great, he's don't get me wrong, he's a great actor.
Love actually liked working with him, but he just mailed
it in, he just mailed it in.
He could do that and he could essentially do that work in his sleep.
He was just there to do the job and give nothing back.
And honestly, probably the way I interpret it he took nothing in, he
was just there literally to do the job.
So he not got no personal interaction with folks.
And that was the thing that bugged Christopher Reeve the most.
Not that he got the 2 million bucks.
2 million bucks.
He said, fine, he earned it.
He's a great actor.
Right.
But there was no personal communication, or interaction really with this great pers
this supposed a great actor and person and this new up, up and coming actor that
wanted to show the world what he can do.
And like he felt kind of like he got cheated.
I had a call with my longest client.
I've been working with him for a couple years, and we had a conversation
about effort and that isn't the same thing as succeeding, because you
can fail, but there's still Okay.
And we want success.
We want people to deliver the goods, but we worship, or worship
is perhaps not the precise word, but we're Effort means something.
Effort means I can't say what it means, but like when you see, okay.
Let's say ultimately a kid is trying out on a team.
And he is not as good.
As the other soccer players.
He's not as good as the other baseball players.
We'll use baseball.
He can't hit it.
But like in practice, no one is hustling like he is.
I love those things.
He's the chubby boy with asthma and he's just running and he is like falling
over 'cause he is running so hard.
His little heart is pounding.
He's like five foot one.
All the other boys are five foot five.
But he's almost keeping up.
But what he is working with is so much worse in terms of like physical
acumen and there's something so inspira you're just like, yes,
totally.
It's awesome.
And I was talking to him about that and it's like effort and I can't remember
what came out of it, but it was just like, don't forget how meaningful effort is.
People will remember that you worked hard.
And here's the thing.
So that's the cool thing with typing people.
Is you can know when they're on hard mode.
When they're doing the thing that they're terrible at because they love you or
because they value your relationship.
They're gonna do the thing that they hate doing.
On your behalf.
And they'll do bad.
They actually won't do a good job at it.
Your kids will make the burnt scrambled eggs and the weird
pancakes for the bed and breakfast, and you're like, this is gross.
Thank you.
Yes.
But you can feel that gratitude for the failure because you know
how difficult the feat was for the person that's presenting it to you.
And so there's something to the, this concept of effort.
Yeah.
I see that loud and clear with my experience in coaching, coaching,
baseball, and even playing baseball.
Like I love the guy, those type of guys on my team, I didn't care if they played.
If they got a hit.
But I knew they were gonna give it all they got for the
other people, for our team.
And it really I saw that in a major way.
Some of the kids I would play like, wow, like I'm starting
like, Hey, you earned it.
Just go out and show it.
And if you don't show it, then you know you're back on
the bench, but you earned it.
He didn't.
And then you, it's even better when these guys go out and perform at that
level 'cause then it builds the team.
Not that we're talking more personality here, but like typing people, if I
had known more about this stuff, I would've been much more informed and
much more confident in those decisions.
It was a gut decision, you know, and you'd see a lot of pro sports coaches
or baseball managers or whatever.
They go the old, they call it old school, they go on gut and they're like, they
poo poo all the analytics these days.
Well, I'm like, you gotta have both.
You have to know the stuff and you have to have a good instinct.
But instinct often is developed over time based on all these things and
experiences you have seen over time.
And you pay attention to them.
You pay attention to these things that happen.
It's not just like, ah, I got this, you know, like queasy feeling in my stomach.
I better pinch hit so-and-so for so and so and then we're gonna win the game.
That's a bunch of, bunch of crap.
It's bs it doesn't work.
I mean, it might be work in luck, but it doesn't, it's not a strategy by any means.
Yeah.
Like in the end I think effort is the leaven in the bread.
Okay.
Yeah.
No matter what, no matter what, you need the bread 'cause you'll starve
to death and you can't eat yeast.
Right?
You could eat yeast, but that's not really calorically dense.
But a really great loaf of bread needs yeast.
So think about a regular team that does a really good job.
And then think about if they had a wildly effortful player or handful
of players in that team that raised the performance of the team beyond a
career player to striving and working.
So think of the Kobe Bryant, the Michael Jordan
Go from a good to a championship team is what happened.
That's exactly right.
Sorry, I didn't mean to interject that.
You get it.
That's, that's the point I was trying to make.
Yeah, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave it here.
We're talking baseball.
Scott probably is a little uncomfortable talking baseball, but we'll do it anyway.
Yeah.
And I have I made this, really it's like a huge book if I were ever to get
back into coaching again, and I have all these systems and practices and
whatever, and, but I have, and it's not personality types, but certain
traits that I want in players and coaches with examples from, really
from big league baseball and there's this fellow Johnny Gomes who played on
several championship baseball clubs.
He was one of these guys that everybody wanted on his team
because he would raise the level.
He was a good player, not a great player, but a pretty darn
good player most of his career.
But he gave, he was a teammate.
He raised the level of all these people, and I see that, and when
I was growing up I guess I was just naturally kind of that way.
I never consciously thought about it.
Getting back to an earlier point we made, like I never consciously thought about
that, but as I got into the coaching realm, I'm like, oh, that's what I want.
I want that guy on my team.
I want a bunch of those guys.
I don't care if so and so or so and so isn't that guy.
But I want all those gap fillers to have.
This way of thinking, this way of going after it.
And I think that works and that has brought me over to say even the work we
do every week, Scott, where, I see it now.
Not everybody is capable to share and we don't even need to share things
that we're not comfortable with, but not everybody does what they do within
these small groups and it's low, it's relatively low stakes, what we're doing.
Not something you get when you go with Scott.
But you know, I can see alright, oh I want, I know this guy or this
girl, woman this man or this woman is going to help fill the gap to
raise the level of this entire group.
And it's not, I'm not picking and choosing like, oh, this guy's bringing it down.
She's raising it up or he's raising it up.
She's, he's bringing it down.
No, it's the, if the entire, I think of it as a team, if they
all come together and their roles.
Everybody has a roll, whether they know it or not, and it works.
It just flat out works 90% of the time, 95% of the time.
It works pretty darn well.
And I have to thank you and all the other members for just making this particularly
understanding that and knowing that, and making these things go well week
after week because I didn't know.
Honestly, I didn't know what I was getting into.
Yeah.
Effort is essentially the cement between the bricks.
You still want uncracked, strong bricks, but you also need the
thing that holds them all together.
Yeah.
And I think that's the, in sports, they have a expression for, there,
there's a glue guy on the team.
A glue guy.
Yeah.
There it is.
Is what they call 'em.
And I, and you know, you hear that over and over and sports
writers often write things.
They don't even know what they're talking about, but they
hear it from somebody else.
But if you know these things, if you start studying these things, the better
off you're gonna be, whether you go to sports or business or frankly, like
being a barber or a cab driver like I once was, and I was like, these things,
you're gonna be just better at what you do, the more you learn about people.
And I just think it's, I think it's wonderful.
But any last words, Scott, before we say bid adieu, for at least for
now, we can put a bookmark in this.
Continue.
Yeah.
Well, no, I was gonna say amen.
I, it was great to be on the.
Great to be on the pod.
Great to be on the podcast.
Yeah.
Appreciate it.
Yeah.
So let's send the good folks out there to Tools with Scott.
Like I said, there's a Coming Soon, new website should be done.
Yeah.
All right.
And then book a book, a one-to-one call with Scott.
He can go more into depth or less into depth, however you wanna do it.
Yeah.
All my contact info is on the retreat website.
And and then if you're in Tom Woods School of Life, you can direct message me.
I'm the only Scott Fischbuch in the school, so that's pretty safe.
Yeah.
Just direct message, Scott, if you're in the school, and
if not, if you wanna get, if.
Like I said earlier, BrianDOLeary.com/tsol stands for Tom's School of Life.
It's a wonderful program and Scott's attest to it in the
past, and I attest to it now.
And good group.
We meet some great people, and and I would say this last Friday on a call one
of the members just said, without Tom Woods even being there, he said, kudos
to Tom for bringing us all together.
I was like yeah.
I wouldn't know a guy like Scott.
There's no way I would ever met him.
And now I do.
That's true.
And it's wonderful.
Yeah.
And I appreciate it and I appreciate all the folks in my life.
And anyway with that being said, we will catch you later folks, and I appreciate
you spending all this time with us.
Thank you.
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