1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,780 Correct. I'm always big on that. I try to explain like this is not me saying this. And people get angry at me and I'm always the opposite. Don't you want a chance if this is what this is in anything? Don't you want a chance to be able to respond if this is what people in the league are saying about you or give your side? 2 00:00:17,980 --> 00:00:26,260 You're listening to The Brian D. O'Leary Show, your sanctuary for serious content in an unserious culture. 3 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,380 Brian O'Leary here with you. 4 00:00:33,380 --> 00:00:41,160 Today on our podcast, we have Jeroen Weitzman, who recently wrote a book called A Hollywood Ending. 5 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:47,940 The Dreams and Drama of the LeBron Lakers, published by Doubleday on October 21st, 2025. 6 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,700 In the interview, we get into the book quite a bit and talk about it. 7 00:00:52,740 --> 00:00:55,260 It's become a hot topic here in NBA circles. 8 00:00:55,460 --> 00:00:58,560 If you're into that, I think you'll gain a lot of insight here. 9 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,700 what's happening with the Lakers and the NBA. 10 00:01:01,100 --> 00:01:04,740 And we just thank Jaron for joining us, 11 00:01:04,820 --> 00:01:06,280 taking some time out of his day to join us, 12 00:01:06,340 --> 00:01:07,060 talk about the book. 13 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,820 It was a good conversation and I hope you enjoy it. 14 00:01:09,940 --> 00:01:14,400 If you want to, please follow me on X or Twitter, 15 00:01:15,320 --> 00:01:16,940 formerly known as, I guess you say, 16 00:01:17,300 --> 00:01:20,520 YouTube and Substack, all at Brian D. O'Leary. 17 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,060 And you can go to the Substack at O'LearyReview.com. 18 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:25,540 That'll get you there also. 19 00:01:25,540 --> 00:01:34,640 So stay tuned for Jeroen Weitzman talking about a Hollywood ending, the dreams and drama of the LeBron Lakers. 20 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:36,320 I'm Brian O'Leary here with you. 21 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:45,040 Jeroen Weitzman wrote a new book, A Hollywood Ending, the dreams and drama of the LeBron Lakers, Doubleday Press. 22 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:46,360 Here it is. 23 00:01:46,980 --> 00:01:51,500 Came out on October 21st and already got some controversy brewing, it looks like. 24 00:01:52,020 --> 00:01:52,120 What? 25 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,520 So we'll get into that in a second, I think. 26 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,940 But what first drew you to become a basketball writer? 27 00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:58,500 Basketball writer. 28 00:01:58,600 --> 00:01:59,020 Ooh, that's different. 29 00:01:59,100 --> 00:01:59,440 I like that. 30 00:01:59,540 --> 00:02:00,240 What first drew me? 31 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:00,900 I love basketball. 32 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,020 It's been always, I'm one of the, it's funny. 33 00:02:03,100 --> 00:02:04,100 I have a six-year-old boy. 34 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:04,720 I have three kids. 35 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:05,580 I have a six-year-old though. 36 00:02:05,620 --> 00:02:08,720 And he, I say, he reminds me of me and you see it with some kids. 37 00:02:08,780 --> 00:02:09,420 I'm starting to see it. 38 00:02:09,460 --> 00:02:12,160 Like some kid just have that sports bug. 39 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:12,940 And that was me. 40 00:02:13,020 --> 00:02:14,480 Just, there was just obsessed with it. 41 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,060 They, you know, they want to soak everything of all sports in at all times. 42 00:02:18,060 --> 00:02:18,240 Right. 43 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:19,160 So that was always me. 44 00:02:19,820 --> 00:02:22,300 And just always like, you know, I want to work in sports. 45 00:02:22,300 --> 00:02:23,180 Didn't even know what that meant. 46 00:02:23,180 --> 00:02:27,140 you know, and basketball was the sport I always loved most. I actually thought, you know, I talked 47 00:02:27,140 --> 00:02:30,580 a lot about this in my last book tour because with the Sixers book on the process, because it kind of 48 00:02:30,580 --> 00:02:35,200 related to that. But I say I grew up in the money ball fantasy sports age, right? So where 49 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:40,440 and the blog age where fans started consuming things from the perspective of GMs, like you think 50 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,240 about what would I do if I was running the team? And that was sort of a change. So for me, I wanted 51 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,600 to be a GM. That was always it. And then I went to NYU and studied sports management there. And 52 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:53,440 sort of midway through though, I realized like, actually I'm drawn to the sociological aspects 53 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,680 and the games themselves and just the stories around sports. Like that's the stuff I love. 54 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:03,240 So I started writing for the NYU paper, local paper. I always joke that to this day, 55 00:03:03,340 --> 00:03:07,340 no one's been meaner to me or rougher on me than the cheerleading moms at Scarsdale 56 00:03:07,340 --> 00:03:11,940 High School who thought I didn't adequately cover their daughters. They accused me of like 57 00:03:11,940 --> 00:03:16,420 favoritism and not understanding that it was just a 9 p.m. deadline, you know? And yeah, 58 00:03:16,420 --> 00:03:17,940 But basketball is always where I want it to be. 59 00:03:17,980 --> 00:03:19,360 I just always loved basketball the most. 60 00:03:19,460 --> 00:03:20,300 I understood it the most. 61 00:03:20,460 --> 00:03:22,880 I wasn't great, but probably my best sport. 62 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,340 And yeah, just kind of chased it. 63 00:03:25,460 --> 00:03:28,960 And so you mentioned you wrote the book about the Sixers that came out a couple of years 64 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:29,760 ago, The Process. 65 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,280 That's for another book tour a couple of years ago. 66 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:37,300 But shall we say, is there any connection, personal or otherwise, to the Lakers that 67 00:03:37,300 --> 00:03:39,800 got you interested in this topic? 68 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,580 No, no, like no personal connection other than, honestly, I live in New York. 69 00:03:43,580 --> 00:03:48,240 I've never covered the, I've rarely written about the Lakers, rarely written about LeBron, 70 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,420 sort of my, I call it my day job career. 71 00:03:50,540 --> 00:03:54,880 Like my day job, when I write, you know, daily coverage or monthly at this point, I'm more, 72 00:03:54,940 --> 00:03:56,740 I zag, I like to think I zag more than zig. 73 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:02,400 And I've never felt that there was a, there was never a lack of LeBron coverage, right? 74 00:04:02,420 --> 00:04:03,140 Or Lakers coverage. 75 00:04:03,220 --> 00:04:07,900 Never felt like someplace for me to add my voice or my thoughts, which is ironic because 76 00:04:07,900 --> 00:04:11,080 actually for the book, I felt it was sort of the opposite, that being sort of an outsider 77 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,240 and meaning coming at things from a different perspective. 78 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,580 And also the way I phrase it is like, 79 00:04:18,340 --> 00:04:20,740 when I cover games, I go to Mass Square Garden. 80 00:04:20,980 --> 00:04:23,540 I don't need a credential from the Lakers. 81 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:25,980 If they literally never give one to me again, 82 00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:27,700 if they never give one to me again, 83 00:04:28,260 --> 00:04:30,420 it will not impact my career at all, really at all, 84 00:04:30,460 --> 00:04:31,120 because I live in New York. 85 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,380 It doesn't mean I was coming ready to burn bridges 86 00:04:33,380 --> 00:04:34,240 and torch everything, 87 00:04:34,380 --> 00:04:36,360 but it just meant I knew I could approach this 88 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,680 with a critical eye, right? 89 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,340 And just write things the way I saw them 90 00:04:40,340 --> 00:04:41,540 and not worry about repercussions. 91 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,100 And as mentioned at the time, 92 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:45,120 a little controversy, 93 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,880 I imagine it happened a while back, 94 00:04:48,020 --> 00:04:51,320 but recently just after publication news comes up again 95 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,680 that the Lakers tried to stop publication of this book. 96 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,180 Can you tell us a little bit about that? 97 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:58,840 Yeah, I don't know why. 98 00:04:58,920 --> 00:04:59,700 I'll fast forward to the end. 99 00:04:59,740 --> 00:05:00,220 I'm not sure why. 100 00:05:00,280 --> 00:05:01,220 So the background is, you know, 101 00:05:01,220 --> 00:05:01,880 I start doing this book. 102 00:05:01,940 --> 00:05:03,300 I reach out to the principals, 103 00:05:03,840 --> 00:05:05,800 Jeannie Buss, the owner of the Lakers, 104 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,300 LeBron's people, LeBron's people. 105 00:05:07,300 --> 00:05:09,540 You started this like 2022. 106 00:05:10,340 --> 00:05:11,220 Yeah, correct. 107 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:11,720 Okay. 108 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:12,020 Correct. 109 00:05:12,180 --> 00:05:16,580 So LeBron's people I've described as sort of a very pleasant thanks but no thanks, right? 110 00:05:16,620 --> 00:05:17,960 Not aggressive, just declined. 111 00:05:18,180 --> 00:05:19,060 But, you know, do you do you? 112 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,380 Jeannie, I met with a couple of times off the record. 113 00:05:21,620 --> 00:05:27,520 I met with her in a LA diner and like at Vegas Summer League at a hotel. 114 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:28,420 I forget which hotel. 115 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:29,560 But one of the hotel restaurants. 116 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,180 Just it was sort of my, and then I'll explain why I'm okay talking about it. 117 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,360 But just sort of my, you know, this is sort of my pitch. 118 00:05:35,420 --> 00:05:36,460 Like, hey, let me meet you. 119 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:37,200 Here's my idea. 120 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:37,940 I'm doing the book. 121 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:39,560 Let me tell you more about me. 122 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:40,100 They don't know me. 123 00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:41,240 Let me tell you more about me. 124 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:42,340 Here's how I approach things. 125 00:05:42,420 --> 00:05:43,080 Why don't you get to know me? 126 00:05:43,140 --> 00:05:43,940 I'll give you my thoughts. 127 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,100 You can ask me any question you want. 128 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:46,360 We can talk, yada. 129 00:05:46,860 --> 00:05:50,360 It's almost like you're trying to sell them, right? 130 00:05:50,540 --> 00:05:51,160 On you. 131 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:52,680 And then you're trustworthy, right? 132 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:53,280 So it's a bit of that. 133 00:05:53,340 --> 00:05:54,180 You're putting on an act, right? 134 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:55,960 Sort of like a first date, honestly, in a weird way. 135 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:57,180 And that's not because she was a woman, right? 136 00:05:57,180 --> 00:05:58,880 That's the same if it's with a male owner. 137 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:00,700 So I do that. 138 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,960 And then we also do a little fact-checking in those, 139 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:05,640 like informal sort of, I'm telling her, 140 00:06:05,700 --> 00:06:06,520 yeah, here's what I heard. 141 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:07,500 And she's giving me her thoughts. 142 00:06:07,500 --> 00:06:12,200 and I'll reveal this because I was transcribing in the interview. 143 00:06:12,300 --> 00:06:15,760 I saw she did like this long form interview with this guy out in LA. 144 00:06:16,180 --> 00:06:16,260 Yeah. 145 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:17,180 You mentioned that in the book. 146 00:06:17,260 --> 00:06:18,320 Was it Graham Bensinger? 147 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:19,240 Yeah. 148 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:19,580 Yeah. 149 00:06:19,860 --> 00:06:20,140 Right. 150 00:06:20,280 --> 00:06:22,380 So I'm transcribing it because this is what I have my alert. 151 00:06:22,460 --> 00:06:25,740 Anytime Jeannie Busser, you know, I'm looking at it research and also I'm listening and she 152 00:06:25,740 --> 00:06:26,040 goes, yeah. 153 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:30,660 And there's this writer who's doing a book on us who told me that you run a cheap organization 154 00:06:30,660 --> 00:06:31,720 or bear, but I forget what she said. 155 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,120 And I'm like, okay, I guess, I guess these aren't off. 156 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:35,460 I guess we're talking about these meetings now. 157 00:06:35,540 --> 00:06:35,800 I don't know. 158 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,300 I guess like, I guess off the record's done. Cool. Works for me. So we do that. 159 00:06:39,380 --> 00:06:43,240 She wanted off the record at the beginning or is that you or were you just getting back? 160 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:47,480 I offer it, but she wanted it. But I just, you know, again, that's very, that's very standard, 161 00:06:47,580 --> 00:06:52,460 especially if like an initial, Hey, I'm writing this big picture. I'm working on this big picture 162 00:06:52,460 --> 00:06:55,780 project. Let's just like talk, no recorders, no notes. It's like, let's get dinner and talk. 163 00:06:55,840 --> 00:07:01,840 Right. Let's dive into that allegation too. That say, what do you say? Cheap. But it's not your 164 00:07:01,840 --> 00:07:06,480 words it's your words coming from somebody else correct that's i'm always big on that right try 165 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,160 to explain like this is not me saying this and people get angry at me and i'm always the opposite 166 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,080 be like don't you want a chance if this is what this is in anything don't you want a chance to 167 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,260 be able to respond if this is what people in the league are saying about you or give your side 168 00:07:17,260 --> 00:07:24,060 yeah i was talking with a fellow who has been in the league for a long time and this is a while ago 169 00:07:24,060 --> 00:07:29,980 but he was telling me that the lakers have always been known as a mom and pop shop not necessarily 170 00:07:29,980 --> 00:07:37,040 cheap but i think you you do mention it in the book it's like the bus family that's their deal 171 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:45,700 it's the lakers it's mom and pop and but it's in this envelope of glitz and glamour of la and 172 00:07:45,700 --> 00:07:51,500 hollywood hollywood ending as you uh write in your title but it's it is a mom and pop shot it's a 173 00:07:51,500 --> 00:07:55,960 family or family-run organization that doesn't really have much outside of sports and the lakers 174 00:07:55,960 --> 00:08:00,060 is the main vehicle for them to earn money. 175 00:08:00,540 --> 00:08:02,180 I guess we can get into them 176 00:08:02,180 --> 00:08:04,360 selling the franchise in a bit. 177 00:08:04,580 --> 00:08:07,320 But anyway, continue about Genie. 178 00:08:08,020 --> 00:08:09,320 Yeah, I want to come back to the mom of Hopkins 179 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:10,120 and have some thoughts on that. 180 00:08:10,180 --> 00:08:10,860 We'll come back to that. 181 00:08:11,020 --> 00:08:11,820 So anyway, so I do that. 182 00:08:11,860 --> 00:08:13,600 And then at some point, I don't know, 183 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:15,560 she stops answering texts, which is fine. 184 00:08:15,780 --> 00:08:17,920 But it was so informal that I live in New Rochelle 185 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,080 and she was very excited that, 186 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:20,860 I should have told the story more, 187 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,440 but she was very excited that New Rochelle, 188 00:08:23,540 --> 00:08:24,500 oh, Dick Van Dyke, right? 189 00:08:24,500 --> 00:08:28,120 So the Dick Van Dyke show was in New Rochelle and I don't jog anymore, 190 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:29,960 but there was a point where I was attempting jogging and, 191 00:08:30,060 --> 00:08:33,240 and it's about a half mile away from me is Dick Van, 192 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,780 there's a street and Dick Van Dyke way or whatever it's named after him. 193 00:08:35,820 --> 00:08:38,060 So I remember jogging and taking a picture and sending it to her and her 194 00:08:38,060 --> 00:08:40,020 being all excited that I remember. So anyway, 195 00:08:40,020 --> 00:08:42,400 we were very cordial somewhere along the line. I start hearing, 196 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:44,940 she's really worried, you know, from sources, she's really worried. 197 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,540 It is some kind of, you know, emotional, not emotional, 198 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,960 paranoia or whatever reaction to something's happening. I know. 199 00:08:51,020 --> 00:09:04,898 What the timeline here Is this still 2022 or is this No no we like two years later We about may 2024 whatever that finals were because not long after game one of the finals it the year the celtics who they beat i don 200 00:09:04,898 --> 00:09:08,598 remember they beat the mavericks yeah right and so actually it's game one and the funny part it's 201 00:09:08,598 --> 00:09:15,658 the day the news breaks that the lakers are chasing dan hurley so that day i'm covering the finals for 202 00:09:15,658 --> 00:09:22,618 Fox Sports and I'm on the sideline and I see an inbox like pregame. I see my email in my inbox. 203 00:09:22,718 --> 00:09:26,118 It says from the desk of Marty Singer. Hi, I'm Marty Singer, represent the Lakers. And I don't 204 00:09:26,118 --> 00:09:30,538 know this is by Google him. And it's very clear very quickly that he's a very famous and aggressive 205 00:09:30,538 --> 00:09:35,858 defamation lawyer known in L.A. So by that point, I'm like, OK, informal communications cut off. 206 00:09:36,438 --> 00:09:41,018 And then later on, I send them fact checking. Right. That's what happens. You send them fact 207 00:09:41,018 --> 00:09:45,458 checking. At this point, had you shared anything other than? No, that's the problem. So if you 208 00:09:45,458 --> 00:09:49,178 were to ask her this is the thing people if someone would ask her she would say well i knew 209 00:09:49,178 --> 00:09:52,078 what they were going to write and because we look at all these things the fact-checking stuff which 210 00:09:52,078 --> 00:09:56,098 they were sent to we can get to that but this is before they got fact-checking so they hired this 211 00:09:56,098 --> 00:10:01,858 lawyer this defamation lawyer this lawyer known for aggressively chasing defamation cases before 212 00:10:01,858 --> 00:10:06,498 they had received any fact-checking so i'm i know usually people hear through the grapevine sources 213 00:10:06,498 --> 00:10:11,198 talk whatever some things get back but they're they they had no idea what would be in the book 214 00:10:11,198 --> 00:10:13,598 or what the angle of the book was before he reached out. 215 00:10:14,018 --> 00:10:18,578 Yeah, being unfamiliar, I mean, mildly familiar with your previous book, 216 00:10:18,698 --> 00:10:22,458 I haven't read it, but was there any blowback from the Sixers organization 217 00:10:22,458 --> 00:10:25,858 or the NBA in general with this defamation stuff? 218 00:10:26,158 --> 00:10:31,458 Or, I mean, not really defamation, but from the Sixers or the NBA or players? 219 00:10:31,798 --> 00:10:33,158 What, after the Sixers book, you mean? 220 00:10:33,998 --> 00:10:34,858 After the Sixers book? 221 00:10:34,978 --> 00:10:36,978 No, ownership was worried before. 222 00:10:37,258 --> 00:10:40,358 Like they brought in Josh Harris's like fancy, he's the owner of the Sixers. 223 00:10:40,358 --> 00:10:43,718 They brought him his fancy New York PR firm, like not his Sixers. 224 00:10:43,778 --> 00:10:50,478 I had a meeting in his, you know, which clearly the people use this for like the outside, you know, let's say Apollo or not Apollo or whatever dealings you have there. 225 00:10:50,818 --> 00:10:53,318 But honestly, that was a whole different thing. 226 00:10:53,418 --> 00:10:54,378 No, it was really OK. 227 00:10:54,578 --> 00:10:56,258 Brett Brown yelled at me on the phone for 10 minutes. 228 00:10:56,318 --> 00:10:58,218 He was the coach owner. 229 00:10:58,358 --> 00:11:00,818 Then when the book came out, I think they saw it was fine. 230 00:11:01,018 --> 00:11:04,098 Joel Embiid is did not like was not happy with me and still not. 231 00:11:04,298 --> 00:11:06,018 Similar thing is writing about stuff that's true. 232 00:11:06,098 --> 00:11:08,558 Just he's sensitive about like how much he eats or his weight. 233 00:11:08,558 --> 00:11:26,958 I'm sensitive to the fact that when you get the fact checking, the way the fact checking works is, if you're not if we're not having constant communication, that's why I'm always saying let's scan the phone and talk. But if you're not having it, you get this document that has 40 or 50 points. They're all negative because I don't need a fact check person next saying genie bus is a great owner. I don't need genie bus reaction to that. That's good. That'd be cool. 234 00:11:26,958 --> 00:11:30,218 So who puts together the fact check document? Is that you or your partner? 235 00:11:30,558 --> 00:11:36,638 I mean, they review, but I do. It's me, right? And it's mostly like, you know, things that probably worry them or don't look great. 236 00:11:36,738 --> 00:11:40,678 You know, we have reporting that staffers had to pay their own way to summer league. 237 00:11:41,138 --> 00:11:44,298 You know, what do you want to say? There's a bunch of lists like that. 238 00:11:44,358 --> 00:11:47,518 So the answer is always, and I've done this with other people, usually get on the phone. 239 00:11:47,918 --> 00:11:52,098 And if there's sometimes it could be context missing or there could be reasons something missing. 240 00:11:52,098 --> 00:11:55,598 And I always say I'm really happy to to change it. Right. 241 00:11:55,598 --> 00:11:57,218 Like it's not, this is before publication. 242 00:11:57,458 --> 00:11:58,878 So if you give me a reason to show me 243 00:11:58,878 --> 00:12:00,918 where I'm missing context or where, 244 00:12:01,038 --> 00:12:02,158 you know, the example, 245 00:12:02,238 --> 00:12:03,618 I said I can't share examples specifically 246 00:12:03,618 --> 00:12:04,338 because some of the other stuff 247 00:12:04,338 --> 00:12:05,258 was done with people off the record, 248 00:12:05,258 --> 00:12:06,938 but like there are examples where context is shared. 249 00:12:07,018 --> 00:12:07,558 You're like, you know what? 250 00:12:07,718 --> 00:12:08,738 I didn't think about that. 251 00:12:08,798 --> 00:12:09,398 That's a good point. 252 00:12:09,998 --> 00:12:11,078 Cool. Done. Out. 253 00:12:11,238 --> 00:12:11,778 Like, that's great. 254 00:12:12,118 --> 00:12:14,398 Yeah. You footnote that example too, 255 00:12:14,778 --> 00:12:16,778 if I recall, where they're like, 256 00:12:16,898 --> 00:12:18,878 well, they weren't part of the... 257 00:12:18,878 --> 00:12:20,418 So some of the, I mean, some of the responses 258 00:12:20,418 --> 00:12:22,558 and that's, so they sent me this list, 259 00:12:22,798 --> 00:12:23,398 their responses, 260 00:12:23,518 --> 00:12:25,358 and some of them are just ridiculous. 261 00:12:25,358 --> 00:12:40,858 It's not factual, like just little things like, and some of them are footnote in the book, but just things that, things that when you start saying, when you start saying person X didn't know person Y, even though person Y has told people that person X was his God, kid's godparent, right? Things like that. It's like, we're not, we're not doing the reality here. 262 00:12:40,858 --> 00:12:46,698 the Kurt Rambis, which I wanted to get into the Kurt Rambis thing a little bit. 263 00:12:47,258 --> 00:12:53,878 You should mention it was a trainer or something that Kurt Rambis, wife, which I was, I was, 264 00:12:53,978 --> 00:12:57,078 I'd heard Linda Rambis' name thrown. 265 00:12:57,158 --> 00:12:59,678 I didn't realize what a big deal she was in the Lakers organization. 266 00:12:59,858 --> 00:13:00,058 How? 267 00:13:00,298 --> 00:13:05,618 I mean, other than being friends with Jeannie Buss, how does the wife of Kurt Rambis become 268 00:13:05,618 --> 00:13:06,498 such a power player? 269 00:13:06,498 --> 00:13:10,558 And then Kurt becomes such a power player in the Lakers organization. 270 00:13:11,078 --> 00:13:13,618 You know, after, I mean, he had a wonderful career with the Lakers, 271 00:13:13,798 --> 00:13:15,598 but he bounced around a little bit afterwards. 272 00:13:15,598 --> 00:13:18,738 And then he was their coach, you know, in crisis mode, 273 00:13:18,798 --> 00:13:20,298 basically for a little bit in the 90s. 274 00:13:20,298 --> 00:13:21,078 I think it was the 90s. 275 00:13:21,418 --> 00:13:25,498 And then he was assistant for Phil Jackson for many years. 276 00:13:26,458 --> 00:13:27,658 It's, I was, I'm going to cut you off. 277 00:13:27,758 --> 00:13:28,178 I think it's Yapa. 278 00:13:28,318 --> 00:13:31,958 It's more like, it's not the white, in Lakers world, 279 00:13:32,018 --> 00:13:32,818 it's going to sound crazy. 280 00:13:32,918 --> 00:13:35,958 Or in Jeannie Buss's world, Kurt Rambis is Linda Rambis' husband. 281 00:13:35,958 --> 00:13:40,358 like it's the sort of sounded like that's where the power is it's not the opposite right it's the 282 00:13:40,358 --> 00:13:45,478 powers that i mean it's the most laker story right so linda rambis how does she get involved in this 283 00:13:45,478 --> 00:13:50,398 world because her older sister i believe was a playmate or playboy bunny i should say excuse me 284 00:13:50,398 --> 00:13:55,338 a playboy bunny uh dated in quotes uh jerry buss whatever that means at that point right one of his 285 00:13:55,338 --> 00:14:01,658 girlfriends and jerry got then jerry liked you know got to know linda and then when genie gets 286 00:14:01,658 --> 00:14:06,678 started he brings linda in to start working and then the forum and kind of helping her as a right 287 00:14:06,678 --> 00:14:11,038 hand woman and they two of them do amazing things like around the um los angeles strings the tennis 288 00:14:11,038 --> 00:14:16,518 team like they're just well she went that far back with them okay wow okay and working like i know 289 00:14:16,518 --> 00:14:22,158 sometimes it becomes a cliche but being woman in sports at that time like that and in back offices 290 00:14:22,158 --> 00:14:26,858 like that was not easy there was you had to it was there were sexism's an under an understatement 291 00:14:26,858 --> 00:14:31,718 right just like it just not even i mean genie went to an owner's meeting once and got someone 292 00:14:31,718 --> 00:14:35,418 grabbed her behind like there's literally stuff like that but even earlier on it wasn't just 293 00:14:35,418 --> 00:14:40,898 overt just like you know all the classic madman style stuff right so dealing with that was tough 294 00:14:40,898 --> 00:14:46,078 and her and genie become linda and genie become i don't want to say best friends but really really 295 00:14:46,078 --> 00:14:50,138 close and someone genie relies on and trusts and the part about linda it's interesting is like 296 00:14:50,138 --> 00:14:56,058 i think by this point like she is qualified to do like these things that people say she does not 297 00:14:56,058 --> 00:14:59,178 not to say make basketball decisions, but talk to agents and be involved. 298 00:14:59,258 --> 00:15:02,538 She's been around lots of important people, lots of successful people, 299 00:15:02,818 --> 00:15:04,178 the Lakers world, the forum, 300 00:15:04,258 --> 00:15:07,778 like these important centers of sporting and culture universe for decades. 301 00:15:08,098 --> 00:15:12,618 The thing that's weird is they sort of Jeannie either doesn't realize how much 302 00:15:12,618 --> 00:15:14,998 she does or just lies about how much she does. 303 00:15:14,998 --> 00:15:18,598 So like I have, you know, agents speak to Linda Rambis and I find this out, 304 00:15:18,658 --> 00:15:21,078 not because I'm some great reporter, because you can call up, you could, 305 00:15:21,138 --> 00:15:23,798 you know, flip a roll decks to a random page of an agent and say, Hey, 306 00:15:23,818 --> 00:15:24,858 have you ever spoken to Linda Rambis? 307 00:15:24,918 --> 00:15:25,858 They're going to be like, yeah, right. 308 00:15:25,858 --> 00:15:29,278 She speaks to that many and Lakers and Jeannie Buss insist that never happens. 309 00:15:29,278 --> 00:15:31,958 Right. And weird stuff like that, where I just, I don't know. 310 00:15:32,018 --> 00:15:34,718 It seems like to me, if you just said what her job was. 311 00:15:35,178 --> 00:15:37,098 Did you get a chance to talk to Linda? 312 00:15:37,818 --> 00:15:38,698 No, no, no, no, no. 313 00:15:39,418 --> 00:15:41,478 They call him the Rambi. I thought that was interesting. 314 00:15:41,658 --> 00:15:42,338 Where'd you get that? 315 00:15:42,598 --> 00:15:43,258 Where'd you get that? 316 00:15:43,638 --> 00:15:46,318 I don't know. It's an NBA world term, the Rambi. I love it. 317 00:15:46,378 --> 00:15:46,838 I think it's perfect. 318 00:15:46,958 --> 00:15:48,378 I loved it too. Yeah. 319 00:15:48,618 --> 00:15:51,978 So you mentioned you talked to, you know, like a lot of these folks, 320 00:15:51,978 --> 00:15:55,658 you're getting information from the people who talk to people. 321 00:15:55,858 --> 00:15:59,538 type thing. And you mentioned clutch. That's a whole, 322 00:15:59,678 --> 00:16:03,378 whole nother thing that I appreciate the, you know, 323 00:16:03,398 --> 00:16:05,878 the in-depth nature of what you did there. 324 00:16:06,058 --> 00:16:07,138 I didn't know the whole story, 325 00:16:07,178 --> 00:16:10,958 but you spend several chapters or at least parts of chapters going into the 326 00:16:10,958 --> 00:16:16,218 clutch thing. Did you ever get to talk to LeBron himself? 327 00:16:16,678 --> 00:16:19,718 For 20 seconds, I told him I'm doing this book, you know, 328 00:16:19,858 --> 00:16:22,258 and I told you a guy, guy's name's Adam Mendelsohn. 329 00:16:22,338 --> 00:16:24,598 He's this communications guy. Like I ran through him. He's like, yep, 330 00:16:24,598 --> 00:16:25,478 I'm going to run it through Adam. 331 00:16:25,738 --> 00:16:26,898 And that was that. 332 00:16:26,958 --> 00:16:27,758 LeBron doesn't do, 333 00:16:28,338 --> 00:16:30,658 they don't really do long form interviews at all anymore. 334 00:16:30,858 --> 00:16:33,078 You know, it's kind of saving it for the documentary. 335 00:16:33,198 --> 00:16:34,098 And I have no issue with that. 336 00:16:34,178 --> 00:16:36,838 Like that's sort of, well, at this point, like, yeah. 337 00:16:37,978 --> 00:16:39,118 It's changed a lot. 338 00:16:39,218 --> 00:16:44,418 I was talking to a fella who worked in the NBA for years 339 00:16:44,418 --> 00:16:45,238 as a beat writer. 340 00:16:45,578 --> 00:16:48,138 And he was telling me that, man, these guys, 341 00:16:48,978 --> 00:16:52,178 when you used to come to town or they came to your town, 342 00:16:52,178 --> 00:17:02,558 And the stars would want to talk to the local beat writer because they wanted to get, you know, more or less wanted to get positive coverage of them. 343 00:17:02,558 --> 00:17:06,998 And now I don't know what the dynamic has certainly changed since the 80s or 90s even. 344 00:17:07,818 --> 00:17:17,618 And I think it is largely because these guys make so much money and they have so much power just by virtue of making all this money now. 345 00:17:17,618 --> 00:17:22,018 but and and social media you get their messages out or player run podcasts like they don't 346 00:17:22,798 --> 00:17:26,958 need a reporter i mean but even look at books right so it's funny if you look at a bunch of 347 00:17:26,958 --> 00:17:33,158 successful nba books so you can look mine i've never spoken to um the main subjects uh mirin 348 00:17:33,158 --> 00:17:37,398 fader wrote a bestseller book on yannis didn't speak to him chris herring who wrote a bestseller 349 00:17:37,398 --> 00:17:42,398 book on the nicks joke on the 90s nicks jokes that like the four big uh main faces on his cover 350 00:17:42,398 --> 00:17:46,898 he didn't speak to them jeff perlman when he did his kobe shack he spoke to shack not kobe 351 00:17:46,898 --> 00:17:49,538 This is just like, it's the world we live in now, honestly. 352 00:17:49,798 --> 00:18:00,216 It just how it goes Yeah So you know I have a contention that journalism and sports journalism in particular is certainly dying as opposed to where it used to be 353 00:18:00,876 --> 00:18:04,656 So how did you or why did you even choose to publish this thing? 354 00:18:05,016 --> 00:18:07,416 I mean, one, you know, it was the end of it. 355 00:18:07,416 --> 00:18:13,536 I mean, listen, it's not scary, but like the idea that there's defamation there is just 356 00:18:13,536 --> 00:18:14,316 absurd. 357 00:18:14,656 --> 00:18:15,336 Forget even. 358 00:18:15,956 --> 00:18:19,696 I mean, first of all, the definition of defamation is just, you know, I know we live in a 359 00:18:19,696 --> 00:18:24,416 new america but you have to basically do a lot lie purposely is basically it and like that would 360 00:18:24,416 --> 00:18:28,896 be crazy and and this stuff's all fact checked and verified and like multiple sources like i felt 361 00:18:28,896 --> 00:18:33,276 comfortable with it and did you have a idea where this story would go when you first started it or 362 00:18:33,276 --> 00:18:39,356 an agenda of any sort no agenda i kind of had a feeling it would get a little i'm gonna say i had 363 00:18:39,356 --> 00:18:42,636 a feeling there was some i hate this term but like dirt that did we found just because it's just 364 00:18:42,636 --> 00:18:47,536 obvious that the way these things are run and the relationship was always a little messy and that 365 00:18:47,536 --> 00:18:49,256 No, I learned early on. 366 00:18:49,576 --> 00:18:56,896 I think it says in the prologue, like a big part of the story is I think I call it like a story about storytellers in a story that they tell about themselves. 367 00:18:56,896 --> 00:19:04,016 Right. And like so much of LeBron and Rich Paul and the Lakers, Jeannie, her father, Jerry, so much about like their myth makers. 368 00:19:04,016 --> 00:19:07,636 Right. And a lot of it is stuff that they're building up and that's part of their brands. 369 00:19:07,636 --> 00:19:13,696 They make money off of that. And as a journalist, you're like, I'm not here to tear down this, but I'm a believer in like, what's the truth? 370 00:19:13,696 --> 00:19:16,496 and not, you know, I remember talking to people about LeBron 371 00:19:16,496 --> 00:19:18,056 and like, it's not gonna try to tear down LeBron. 372 00:19:18,156 --> 00:19:19,436 And even when you make fun of some of these things 373 00:19:19,436 --> 00:19:21,796 went viral about some of his, you know, 374 00:19:22,116 --> 00:19:23,676 lack of authenticity, we should say, 375 00:19:23,756 --> 00:19:25,376 around like how he reads books or whatever. 376 00:19:25,556 --> 00:19:28,696 And you write that not because you wanna make fun of LeBron, 377 00:19:28,776 --> 00:19:31,316 but because LeBron's this important cultural icon 378 00:19:31,316 --> 00:19:34,256 who I think we're talking about like this stretch, 379 00:19:34,376 --> 00:19:36,556 like the fact that he was often photographed, 380 00:19:36,776 --> 00:19:37,976 often photographed having, 381 00:19:38,456 --> 00:19:40,356 like holding books that were clearly not read. 382 00:19:40,416 --> 00:19:41,856 I think that's part of his story, right? 383 00:19:41,896 --> 00:19:43,056 It just is, it just is. 384 00:19:43,056 --> 00:19:48,116 yeah so you mentioned the prologue let's talk about that a little bit how um you have a conversation 385 00:19:48,116 --> 00:19:55,076 in there and so what was the biggest challenge there to verify with real or is this is it more 386 00:19:55,076 --> 00:20:01,356 the story that you're concerned with no no that that so we did it again talk about like specific 387 00:20:01,356 --> 00:20:05,976 we can get journalism like so if i if i'm recreating something in the book it's in italics 388 00:20:05,976 --> 00:20:10,696 that i was there for that so i was in the locker room for that conversation the prologue i'll give 389 00:20:10,696 --> 00:20:14,676 the background here so this is it's you know it's how it's one of these great like journalism you 390 00:20:14,676 --> 00:20:17,936 show up a hundred times you never know but at one time you just keep showing up showing up and 391 00:20:17,936 --> 00:20:22,256 sometimes you strike gold and i was in miami for a lakers game a random game i just happened to be 392 00:20:22,256 --> 00:20:26,456 there i think i was visiting like my you know classic you know new york to miami winter break 393 00:20:26,456 --> 00:20:31,556 game right and i'm visiting and so i go to the lakers lakers heat game and uh i'm not a beat 394 00:20:31,556 --> 00:20:35,216 writer so i forget who was speaking but the game was over and let's say it was austin reeves i don't 395 00:20:35,216 --> 00:20:39,716 know whoever anthony davis somebody's going to the podium so all the beat writers go no anthony it 396 00:20:39,716 --> 00:20:44,036 can be Anthony Davis who's left behind but someone goes all the beat writers go and it I'm the only 397 00:20:44,036 --> 00:20:49,176 reporter left in the locker room and LeBron and LeBron Anthony Davis and Jared Vanderbilt another 398 00:20:49,176 --> 00:20:53,576 teammate and a couple staffers are there and I'm still there and so like I'm not hiding I'm not 399 00:20:53,576 --> 00:20:57,616 shoving my record my phone in LeBron's face but I'm just kind of like my credentials out so I'm 400 00:20:57,616 --> 00:21:03,296 very clean right I'm very but they start talking having this conversation about uh you know which 401 00:21:03,296 --> 00:21:07,336 contract meant the most when you signed it and it evolves into how much do you think you're worth 402 00:21:07,336 --> 00:21:11,176 And I'm just running my recorder being like, oh my God, this is gold. 403 00:21:11,356 --> 00:21:13,196 I'm just kind of standing on the side, letting it go. 404 00:21:13,536 --> 00:21:15,876 And I go home that night and I transcribe. 405 00:21:15,976 --> 00:21:19,056 I remember sending it to my brother and him being like, oh, that's your prologue. 406 00:21:19,096 --> 00:21:20,016 And I'm like, oh my God, you're right. 407 00:21:20,176 --> 00:21:23,716 Just it was the idea of LeBron talking about how much he's worth and why he thinks he's 408 00:21:23,716 --> 00:21:25,236 worth that and what his value is. 409 00:21:25,376 --> 00:21:27,576 And to me, it was just, it was luck. 410 00:21:27,636 --> 00:21:30,656 I guess the not lucky part is, you know, you go, you show up and that's what you get. 411 00:21:30,776 --> 00:21:31,656 But there was some luck to that. 412 00:21:31,656 --> 00:21:36,696 So that, yeah, that, that was all, uh, that was all recorded and listening to very carefully 413 00:21:36,696 --> 00:21:38,416 over and over to make sure I get the words, right? 414 00:21:38,836 --> 00:21:39,676 Yeah, no, that's gold. 415 00:21:39,936 --> 00:21:40,096 Yeah. 416 00:21:40,116 --> 00:21:45,116 Let's, let's talk about LeBron for a second and like how much he is worth my contention. 417 00:21:45,516 --> 00:21:52,496 You know, you, you hear it thrown around that, uh, LeBron is a fraud or that Ron is the greatest 418 00:21:52,496 --> 00:21:52,976 of all time. 419 00:21:53,396 --> 00:21:56,996 I don't know that either is exactly true. 420 00:21:56,996 --> 00:22:01,436 I lean more toward the fraud part because I think my contention, 421 00:22:01,576 --> 00:22:02,016 look at you. 422 00:22:02,256 --> 00:22:02,856 Yeah. 423 00:22:02,916 --> 00:22:05,676 My contention is that he is a gifted, 424 00:22:06,096 --> 00:22:07,376 supremely gifted athlete. 425 00:22:07,536 --> 00:22:09,596 The likes of Bo Jackson, 426 00:22:10,536 --> 00:22:11,276 Dan Kendra, 427 00:22:11,576 --> 00:22:12,036 Goliath, 428 00:22:12,116 --> 00:22:16,556 perhaps like you don't see many of these guys in the wild. 429 00:22:17,216 --> 00:22:17,776 And, 430 00:22:17,776 --> 00:22:19,056 you know, 431 00:22:19,116 --> 00:22:19,396 he, 432 00:22:19,496 --> 00:22:20,736 he's been, 433 00:22:20,856 --> 00:22:22,176 what is his 21st year, 434 00:22:22,356 --> 00:22:24,556 22nd year and something like that. 435 00:22:25,116 --> 00:22:25,996 And he, 436 00:22:26,996 --> 00:22:30,076 There's a reason he's lasted so long. 437 00:22:30,636 --> 00:22:37,316 And even Chael Sonnen, MMA guy, has intimated that his guy is LeBron's guy. 438 00:22:38,036 --> 00:22:40,916 And you don't touch on any of this in the book. 439 00:22:41,556 --> 00:22:48,356 I think it would, you know, for speculation, I don't mean speculation, but why didn't you dive into that? 440 00:22:48,516 --> 00:22:51,516 Which is, it's a more or less open secret. 441 00:22:51,956 --> 00:22:52,796 I would disagree. 442 00:22:52,796 --> 00:22:57,316 okay so again goes back to like where i was comfortable publishing a book and you know i 443 00:22:57,316 --> 00:23:01,936 that to me is a the idea that lebron is taking performance enhancing yeah if you talk to like 444 00:23:01,936 --> 00:23:05,736 five scouts they'll be oh i heard about this or not you know not everyone says that but to me 445 00:23:05,736 --> 00:23:10,556 i don't know how i write things i know so unless someone's literally unless it's get his trainer 446 00:23:10,556 --> 00:23:15,236 or um somebody i don't know that's not they do it anymore but somebody's literally seeing him get 447 00:23:15,236 --> 00:23:19,936 injected in the rear right in the locker room right it's not like the days of mark mcguire and 448 00:23:19,936 --> 00:23:26,296 correct so so i don't know so i just got to me it's one of these things where i just i i didn't 449 00:23:26,296 --> 00:23:31,036 have it and i don't personally care so much honestly i think it's different like what i mean 450 00:23:31,036 --> 00:23:35,116 this is made up science i don't what's if you were using it like what's the difference between 451 00:23:35,116 --> 00:23:39,916 i don't know hgh or whatever the 90 million minerals and nutrients he's taking anyway when 452 00:23:39,916 --> 00:23:45,456 his supplement on it like to me like lebron's longevity and i make sure the cover is something 453 00:23:45,456 --> 00:23:46,796 I wanted to really hit on the book. 454 00:23:47,036 --> 00:23:50,356 It's a result of his discipline 455 00:23:50,356 --> 00:23:52,716 and his commitment to being great for a long time. 456 00:23:52,816 --> 00:23:54,916 And like the willingness, playing is easy. 457 00:23:54,996 --> 00:23:56,656 Everyone says like playing, even when you're old, 458 00:23:56,816 --> 00:23:58,136 like playing in the game, that's easy. 459 00:23:58,216 --> 00:24:00,336 It's the commitment and the discipline it takes 460 00:24:00,336 --> 00:24:01,496 to remaining at a high level, 461 00:24:01,576 --> 00:24:02,556 meaning you're getting your sleep 462 00:24:02,556 --> 00:24:04,016 and you're not going out. 463 00:24:04,156 --> 00:24:06,036 And at 220, you're going to get your massage 464 00:24:06,036 --> 00:24:08,416 and you're going to interrupt your card game. 465 00:24:08,536 --> 00:24:09,876 Like people, someone joked to me that like, 466 00:24:10,256 --> 00:24:10,976 there's something that's looking around 467 00:24:10,976 --> 00:24:12,696 and looks like his trainer has like a trap door 468 00:24:12,696 --> 00:24:15,176 because it pops out with his like 420 salmon and quinoa, 469 00:24:15,176 --> 00:24:19,576 right and michael beasley joked to me that it's like there's a bleeping nascar pit stop around him 470 00:24:19,576 --> 00:24:23,516 at all times like this it's this level of discipline you know you see lebron showing up 471 00:24:23,516 --> 00:24:27,736 for the podcast and maybe it's showy but he's coming when he does this um podcast with steve 472 00:24:27,736 --> 00:24:32,196 nash and jj reddick he's got his giant like i love this he they're drinking wine and to me it's very 473 00:24:32,196 --> 00:24:36,656 obvious he's bringing his giant jug of water and it's like oh he's definitely thought that i'm 474 00:24:36,656 --> 00:24:41,396 drinking wine on this podcast but i know in his head he's thinking every glass of wine i have i 475 00:24:41,396 --> 00:24:45,016 need to drink these this much ounces of water that's how i make it so that that to me is what 476 00:24:45,016 --> 00:24:50,976 greatness is from yeah and uh you know maybe we could get into that and everything i mean 477 00:24:50,976 --> 00:24:56,556 kobe bryant went to germany now he just goes to germany and that's that's the last you hear that 478 00:24:56,556 --> 00:25:03,776 well there's some scientists that have been doing things since the 1960s uh but anyway it's it well 479 00:25:03,776 --> 00:25:12,916 let's let's leave that leave that be you talk um clutch that we mentioned earlier too and clutch is 480 00:25:12,916 --> 00:25:21,456 It's the agency owned by Rich Paul, who was LeBron met him in high school, I guess it was, or right after. 481 00:25:21,856 --> 00:25:24,416 Yeah, LeBron was in high school at an airport. 482 00:25:24,576 --> 00:25:24,856 He met him. 483 00:25:24,976 --> 00:25:25,276 He saw him. 484 00:25:25,596 --> 00:25:27,136 Rich was selling throwback jerseys. 485 00:25:27,136 --> 00:25:36,156 And Paul becomes this lawyer or this agent and becomes massively successful, basically on the back of LeBron. 486 00:25:36,156 --> 00:25:50,156 And then the Lakers have been accused of being an agency team because of Rob Pelika's being the GM of the Lakers, being an ex-agent, and his relationship with Rich Paul. 487 00:25:50,836 --> 00:26:02,436 And the Lakers have signed a bunch of clutch guys with a, you know, maybe perhaps they could have taken somebody else, but when push comes to shove, you're going to take the clutch guy. 488 00:26:02,436 --> 00:26:08,216 Is that because of LeBron, Rich Paul, the relationship between Palenka and Paul or none of the above? 489 00:26:08,596 --> 00:26:13,656 No, the relationship between Palenka and Paul in recent years was not great. 490 00:26:13,716 --> 00:26:14,196 So two parts. 491 00:26:14,276 --> 00:26:19,796 One, I would say one of the things that going back was interesting is the idea that clutch running the Lakers was overblown. 492 00:26:19,796 --> 00:26:23,176 And you can look at the most obvious examples in 2019, LeBron's second year. 493 00:26:23,356 --> 00:26:26,436 Before any issues, second year, he wants Ty Lue as the head coach. 494 00:26:27,056 --> 00:26:27,856 They basically say no. 495 00:26:28,176 --> 00:26:30,576 And LeBron wanted the Lakers to trade for Kyrie Irving. 496 00:26:30,576 --> 00:26:32,576 Like they've said no to him on a lot of big things. 497 00:26:33,336 --> 00:26:35,096 Where they've said yes is more smaller things. 498 00:26:35,096 --> 00:26:36,476 I think that's sort of interesting and telling. 499 00:26:36,476 --> 00:26:38,756 It's sort of like, well, cater, we, this, 500 00:26:38,876 --> 00:26:40,656 this is where the agency in the Hollywood stuff, 501 00:26:40,736 --> 00:26:44,216 like we can cater to our stars on things we don't necessarily care about on 502 00:26:44,216 --> 00:26:45,876 the margins, drafting Bronny. 503 00:26:45,876 --> 00:26:57,814 Cause who cares about 55th pick signing 12th man whatever It doesn matter But these big decisions no no no We are we where we go we make our own choices Even people think you know there was an idea that the Lakers hired JJ Reddick 504 00:26:57,814 --> 00:26:59,154 to be the coach because LeBron, 505 00:26:59,314 --> 00:27:00,634 it was his LeBron's podcast partner 506 00:27:00,634 --> 00:27:01,474 and LeBron wanted it. 507 00:27:01,934 --> 00:27:02,854 LeBron had nothing to do with it. 508 00:27:02,914 --> 00:27:05,094 Like he, he had, he wasn't involved at all. 509 00:27:05,454 --> 00:27:06,714 That was the Lakers decision on their own. 510 00:27:07,114 --> 00:27:07,874 You talk about that. 511 00:27:07,914 --> 00:27:09,114 You talk about that in the book 512 00:27:09,114 --> 00:27:11,214 where they didn't, they communicated 513 00:27:11,214 --> 00:27:14,614 during that process, but not on, 514 00:27:15,214 --> 00:27:16,974 not about the coaching search. 515 00:27:17,134 --> 00:27:45,794 Oh, JJ and LeBron, you're saying, yeah, I spoke to the producer from the podcast they did. And the way he phrased it to me is like, is an example. He's like, maybe they talked about it. But what I can tell you is what he told me, what I can tell you is we had them mic'd up all the time when they were here, not even stuff that made the air. And I even he's saying I even asked my guys out of curiosity. And we there was nothing ever them discussing anything about the job. So like, yeah, I guess they could have had a burner phone. But it just it just defies logic that that would never come up if it was something they were actually discussing. 516 00:27:45,794 --> 00:27:52,134 but I mean to the Lakers credit or discredit whatever it might be there they knew there was 517 00:27:52,134 --> 00:27:57,274 a relationship there for sure the relationship there for the same reasons they want to hire him 518 00:27:57,274 --> 00:28:00,714 right that like he's someone JJ Reddick's someone who works hard is smart is respected like 519 00:28:00,714 --> 00:28:06,794 LeBron was willing to do a podcast with JJ Reddick for basically the same reasons that the Lakers 520 00:28:06,794 --> 00:28:11,054 wanted to hire him as coach right but it doesn't mean that one was done because of the other 521 00:28:11,054 --> 00:28:14,174 Yeah, what do you, I mean, this is pure speculation. 522 00:28:14,434 --> 00:28:20,954 How do you see the J.J. Redick tenure going based on the last several hires 523 00:28:20,954 --> 00:28:23,274 that Rob Palenka's had for the Lakers? 524 00:28:24,034 --> 00:28:27,274 It's so interesting because J.J. is the first one he's really spent money on, 525 00:28:27,334 --> 00:28:28,594 and they were going to do it on Hurley too, right? 526 00:28:28,634 --> 00:28:31,794 So they don't hire Ty Lue because they don't want to pay. 527 00:28:31,894 --> 00:28:33,294 So they hired Frank Vogel, who's a good coach, 528 00:28:33,394 --> 00:28:37,154 but second rate in terms of pay and stature. 529 00:28:37,654 --> 00:28:39,374 Darvin Hamm's a similar thing, right? 530 00:28:39,374 --> 00:28:41,574 He's a good candidate then, but a similar thing. 531 00:28:41,714 --> 00:28:45,034 J.J. is the first one where they really pay for a guy. 532 00:28:45,274 --> 00:28:49,694 It's the first coaching star that Polinka hired, which was interesting. 533 00:28:50,474 --> 00:28:53,114 And it was sort of, if you go back, it's really interesting to go back 534 00:28:53,114 --> 00:28:57,074 and listen to the original press conference where they announced J.J. Redick. 535 00:28:57,254 --> 00:28:59,794 And the Lakers were making it very clear what they were doing. 536 00:28:59,874 --> 00:29:01,974 They were pivoting away from LeBron, and they were changing their models. 537 00:29:02,094 --> 00:29:06,574 They were talking about, they're speaking, they're Rob Polinka speaking like he's running the Thunder 538 00:29:06,574 --> 00:29:07,494 in a small market team. 539 00:29:07,654 --> 00:29:08,994 Like, new salary cap. 540 00:29:09,034 --> 00:29:10,274 We're going to lean into player development. 541 00:29:11,174 --> 00:29:12,734 They talked about this player development app 542 00:29:12,734 --> 00:29:13,314 they were going to make. 543 00:29:13,374 --> 00:29:14,414 God knows what happened to that, right? 544 00:29:14,434 --> 00:29:16,214 It was just a whole new world. 545 00:29:16,354 --> 00:29:17,374 Then Luka falls in their lap 546 00:29:17,374 --> 00:29:18,714 and they're back to like, we chase stars. 547 00:29:18,894 --> 00:29:21,094 But they were ready to pivot to a new approach 548 00:29:21,094 --> 00:29:22,854 and that's why they were going to go to Hurley 549 00:29:22,854 --> 00:29:24,274 and JJ Redick was similar thing. 550 00:29:24,354 --> 00:29:24,974 Someone who could like, 551 00:29:25,034 --> 00:29:26,694 look at the organization holistically 552 00:29:26,694 --> 00:29:28,394 and we're going to have a player development plan 553 00:29:28,394 --> 00:29:29,594 and this stuff all goes together. 554 00:29:30,194 --> 00:29:32,254 I think JJ's a really good coach. 555 00:29:32,374 --> 00:29:34,134 I think he's really smart, really respected, 556 00:29:34,274 --> 00:29:34,974 works his butt off. 557 00:29:34,974 --> 00:29:39,954 the, the, uh, let's say temper, that's not even the right word. He's going to have to figure out 558 00:29:39,954 --> 00:29:43,634 a way to get his emotions in check. Like we see him calling timeouts, yelling at guys, that's fine. 559 00:29:43,634 --> 00:29:48,674 But we literally saw an example in the playoffs of, um, you know, when he plays five guys, 560 00:29:48,694 --> 00:29:51,934 the entire second half, whatever game that was against Minnesota, that's to me as an example of 561 00:29:51,934 --> 00:29:57,154 somebody unable to regulate their emotions in a way where you can like kind of realize, no, 562 00:29:57,174 --> 00:30:01,354 I'm thinking I'm being too reactionary here. This is not a proper way to coach, right? I have to 563 00:30:01,354 --> 00:30:05,814 figure out i know i want to win and but that's inability to regulate your emotions and we've 564 00:30:05,814 --> 00:30:10,414 seen him kind of have these outbursts and he's talked about having to curtail these i think 565 00:30:10,414 --> 00:30:15,294 that's going to be the one thing we have to pay attention to yeah kind of drove him as a player 566 00:30:15,294 --> 00:30:19,194 correct it's one of these things right but as a coach it's there you just i let's say he chews 567 00:30:19,194 --> 00:30:22,794 out jackson hayes the other day that's fine nobody cares about jackson hayes he probably deserved it 568 00:30:22,794 --> 00:30:28,294 i think at a certain point like you can't keep doing that to nba players it just it just doesn't 569 00:30:28,294 --> 00:30:34,554 last yeah wears him down you talk talk about rob palenka a couple times i got the impression 570 00:30:34,554 --> 00:30:40,814 when you first write about him he not that it's your opinion i don't know what your opinion is 571 00:30:40,814 --> 00:30:50,334 but the general consensus is he's a bit of a buffoon as a gm and quite sanctimonious and he 572 00:30:50,334 --> 00:30:56,414 was picked as the gm primarily because it's a relationship with kobe bryant and the laker or 573 00:30:56,414 --> 00:31:00,054 with Kobe Bryant and Kobe being the, you know, the star of the Lakers. 574 00:31:00,274 --> 00:31:04,334 But at the end, he, you know, he's like, oh, we got Luka. 575 00:31:04,634 --> 00:31:06,854 Like you said, Luka fell right in their lap. 576 00:31:07,134 --> 00:31:10,594 And now he's, you know, some sort of genius trader. 577 00:31:11,414 --> 00:31:13,514 And what changed there? 578 00:31:13,734 --> 00:31:14,354 The narrative. 579 00:31:14,594 --> 00:31:15,674 How did that change? 580 00:31:15,734 --> 00:31:17,274 Is it just because of those events? 581 00:31:18,074 --> 00:31:20,234 Or am I inaccurate with those? 582 00:31:20,494 --> 00:31:21,614 No, I wouldn't say that. 583 00:31:21,734 --> 00:31:23,174 He had different skills, right? 584 00:31:23,194 --> 00:31:24,014 So he was hired. 585 00:31:24,394 --> 00:31:25,554 It's sort of unfair to him, right? 586 00:31:25,554 --> 00:31:26,954 or I mean, depends what you want. 587 00:31:27,014 --> 00:31:29,314 He was hired to be sort of the guy 588 00:31:29,314 --> 00:31:30,674 with the knowledge and know-how 589 00:31:30,674 --> 00:31:32,314 who would be Magic Johnson, right-hand man. 590 00:31:32,434 --> 00:31:33,434 Magic Johnson didn't have, 591 00:31:33,514 --> 00:31:35,014 when he comes in as president of basketball operations, 592 00:31:35,154 --> 00:31:36,374 he doesn't have that, right? 593 00:31:36,394 --> 00:31:38,034 The experience and that role. 594 00:31:38,134 --> 00:31:39,194 And Palenka is the former agent 595 00:31:39,194 --> 00:31:39,934 who's been in the trenches, 596 00:31:40,074 --> 00:31:40,654 knows all that stuff. 597 00:31:40,714 --> 00:31:41,314 That's going to be his job. 598 00:31:41,394 --> 00:31:43,774 The thing is, Rob Palenka's skills as an agent 599 00:31:43,774 --> 00:31:44,994 were not like knowing 600 00:31:44,994 --> 00:31:46,674 the collective bargain agreement in and out. 601 00:31:46,734 --> 00:31:47,774 Like that wasn't what his thing was. 602 00:31:47,774 --> 00:31:49,774 He was, you don't need to know that 603 00:31:49,774 --> 00:31:51,314 to represent SARS like Kobe. 604 00:31:52,074 --> 00:31:52,814 He's got a guy though. 605 00:31:52,914 --> 00:31:54,954 He's got a guy that you mentioned a few times. 606 00:31:54,954 --> 00:31:56,954 is his right-hand man for the salary. 607 00:31:57,474 --> 00:31:58,474 Correct. Now he does. Yeah. 608 00:31:58,694 --> 00:32:00,714 But at the beginning, that was supposed to be him, right? 609 00:32:00,794 --> 00:32:02,474 And that wasn't his expertise. 610 00:32:02,814 --> 00:32:05,174 And they messed up the salary cap a few times, and he did as well. 611 00:32:05,574 --> 00:32:08,914 What he's really good at, he's really good at managing up, 612 00:32:09,094 --> 00:32:11,994 which sounds like it's a legit thing, right? 613 00:32:11,994 --> 00:32:13,994 Being a GM, one of the biggest, most important things is, 614 00:32:14,354 --> 00:32:17,174 can you manage your owner and just manage expectations 615 00:32:17,174 --> 00:32:20,534 and filter information and develop trust where they trust you 616 00:32:20,534 --> 00:32:21,834 and allow you to go about your job? 617 00:32:21,934 --> 00:32:23,534 And he's fantastic at that. 618 00:32:23,534 --> 00:32:29,274 listen the Luka thing we say it fell on his lap it's true but it's not that he's got Luka he kept 619 00:32:29,274 --> 00:32:32,994 it quiet I know they wanted him to and that was beneficial to him but he got Luka without trading 620 00:32:32,994 --> 00:32:37,574 anything like that or not like that was the thing they traded Anthony Davis and and like no and one 621 00:32:37,574 --> 00:32:42,294 pick whatever it was like that trade should have been Austin Reeves Anthony Davis and every single 622 00:32:42,294 --> 00:32:45,114 pick the Lakers had and he probably still would have done that it would have been the right move 623 00:32:45,114 --> 00:32:49,454 right so not only does he get him but he gets him without giving up all the assets that you see 624 00:32:49,454 --> 00:32:55,514 normally move in a typical star trade so they're legit skills there yeah and mavericks wanted or at 625 00:32:55,514 --> 00:33:01,914 least their gm wanted to get rid of them i think he was you know the the drinking the carousing 626 00:33:01,914 --> 00:33:07,434 they couldn't control it no that was not really out i don't think and i think you know he's got 627 00:33:07,434 --> 00:33:11,754 they got sick of him and the mavericks fans i mean they're not nba beat reporters they don't know 628 00:33:11,754 --> 00:33:19,594 this stuff and uh you know so he falls in the lakers lap but it looks like luca has at least 629 00:33:19,594 --> 00:33:26,354 turned the corner a little bit over the summer got fit for once and uh you know or at least the 630 00:33:26,354 --> 00:33:31,014 summer fitness we'll see what happens over the course of the nba season but uh anyway i know 631 00:33:31,014 --> 00:33:37,334 you got a heart out here uh momentarily your your own but uh where can people find out more about 632 00:33:37,334 --> 00:33:39,214 you can get their hands on the book. 633 00:33:39,654 --> 00:33:40,054 Yeah, sure. 634 00:33:40,094 --> 00:33:40,554 You get the book, 635 00:33:40,654 --> 00:33:41,574 wherever books are sold, 636 00:33:41,614 --> 00:33:42,094 as they say. 637 00:33:42,214 --> 00:33:42,874 So I used to joke, 638 00:33:42,914 --> 00:33:43,114 you know, 639 00:33:43,114 --> 00:33:44,094 support local bookstores. 640 00:33:44,234 --> 00:33:45,314 But I think in today's world, 641 00:33:45,374 --> 00:33:46,494 like just buy a book, 642 00:33:46,574 --> 00:33:47,274 Amazon, fine. 643 00:33:47,314 --> 00:33:48,074 If you want to support Amazon 644 00:33:48,074 --> 00:33:49,214 with books, go ahead, you know. 645 00:33:49,334 --> 00:33:49,974 And you can find me 646 00:33:49,974 --> 00:33:50,234 on any, 647 00:33:50,314 --> 00:33:51,254 whichever social media 648 00:33:51,254 --> 00:33:53,294 is your social media of choice. 649 00:33:53,494 --> 00:33:55,074 I'm on all platforms 650 00:33:55,074 --> 00:33:55,614 these days. 651 00:33:56,354 --> 00:33:57,054 Your own Weitzman. 652 00:33:57,114 --> 00:33:58,194 We'll have that all in the notes 653 00:33:58,194 --> 00:34:00,034 and all that stuff. 654 00:34:00,114 --> 00:34:01,614 Hey, appreciate you 655 00:34:01,614 --> 00:34:03,054 spending time with us today 656 00:34:03,054 --> 00:34:03,834 here, your own. 657 00:34:04,174 --> 00:34:05,954 And best of luck with the book. 658 00:34:05,954 --> 00:34:09,654 and now it's controversy sells 659 00:34:09,654 --> 00:34:11,254 and there's a lot of controversy. 660 00:34:11,514 --> 00:34:13,074 So go out and read this book 661 00:34:13,074 --> 00:34:15,254 and learn all about what's happening 662 00:34:15,254 --> 00:34:17,674 or what happened with the Lakers 663 00:34:17,674 --> 00:34:19,514 and LeBron, et cetera. 664 00:34:20,294 --> 00:34:21,034 So yeah, best of luck. 665 00:34:21,274 --> 00:34:21,994 Thank you, Brian. 666 00:34:22,054 --> 00:34:22,634 Really appreciate it. 667 00:34:22,674 --> 00:34:22,934 This was fun. 668 00:34:23,074 --> 00:34:23,374 Thank you. 669 00:34:23,614 --> 00:34:24,174 Okay, take care. 670 00:34:31,494 --> 00:34:33,654 Thanks for tuning in again, folks. 671 00:34:33,654 --> 00:34:41,514 Roan Weitzman with a Hollywood ending, the dreams and drama of the LeBron Lakers. And you can find 672 00:34:41,514 --> 00:34:48,434 all you need to know about the book in our show notes. And that will be at our Substack page and 673 00:34:48,434 --> 00:34:58,214 our podcast page. You should go to fountain.fm or the Fountain app to download the audio and video 674 00:34:58,214 --> 00:35:04,794 version. Fountain is now doing video podcasts. But we'll also have it on X. We'll have it on YouTube 675 00:35:04,794 --> 00:35:10,874 and we'll have it on Substack, like I said, all at Brian D. O'Leary. And you can find the Substack 676 00:35:10,874 --> 00:35:18,854 at O'LearyReview.com. And once again, thanks for tuning in to Roan Weitzman, a Hollywood ending, 677 00:35:18,854 --> 00:35:26,574 the dreams and drama of the LeBron Lakers. That's Double Day, October 21st, 2025. 678 00:35:28,214 --> 00:35:58,194 Thank you.