1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,860 you're listening to the brian d o'leary show your sanctuary for serious content in an unserious 2 00:00:12,860 --> 00:00:23,560 culture all right today we got mark kurlansky with us and mark is the author of brand new book 3 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:28,300 To Catch A Fish by Story Publishing, March 31st, 2026. 4 00:00:28,460 --> 00:00:30,040 That's today as we're recording. 5 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:30,820 Mark, welcome. 6 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:31,720 Thank you. 7 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:36,280 Mark, I've been reading your stuff for darn near 30 years, I think. 8 00:00:36,820 --> 00:00:37,400 Oh, right. 9 00:00:37,540 --> 00:00:43,540 Yeah, I came across a book that you might probably are best well known for called Cod, 10 00:00:43,580 --> 00:00:48,440 and I thought it was just a magnificent history, a biography of the fish, I think you call it. 11 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,820 You know, you've got your timing exactly right. 12 00:00:52,820 --> 00:00:59,140 because this year, a 30-year anniversary edition of COD is coming out. 13 00:00:59,400 --> 00:00:59,840 Is that right? 14 00:01:00,020 --> 00:01:00,400 Oh, wow. 15 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:02,800 We'll have to publicize that here, too. 16 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,640 But, yeah, like I said, today we're talking about to catch a fish. 17 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:13,040 And you've written a number of books on fishing, fly fishing specifically. 18 00:01:13,980 --> 00:01:17,560 You're a former commercial fisherman in an old life, it sounds like, huh? 19 00:01:17,980 --> 00:01:18,800 In my youth. 20 00:01:18,940 --> 00:01:20,000 In your youth, yeah. 21 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,780 And, uh, and, and you've also, another one of my major interests is baseball. 22 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:30,760 And, uh, I wanted to talk quick before we get into this book today, but you wrote a book 23 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,460 that blew my mind called Eastern stars. 24 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:40,420 And it was, and it was a history of baseball in the Dominican Republic, particularly about 25 00:01:40,420 --> 00:01:48,060 the Eastern stars or, um, Estrella's orientalis and the town of San Pedro de Macarys, the 26 00:01:48,060 --> 00:01:49,020 cradle of shortstops. 27 00:01:49,020 --> 00:01:52,560 How did you think to write that book? 28 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,500 Well, it was kind of an evolution. 29 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,600 I spent a lot of time in the Caribbean. 30 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:03,980 I covered the Caribbean for the Chicago Tribune for about 10 years. 31 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:13,080 And I had always wanted to write a book about a Caribbean town. 32 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:22,280 and then I started thinking about this particular town that had produced so many major league 33 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:28,700 baseball players and I thought this would be a great town to write about yeah and yeah that 34 00:02:28,700 --> 00:02:34,880 dovetails with you know my interests which are you know primarily baseball and fly fishing so 35 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,520 It was wonderful to have you on here. 36 00:02:36,900 --> 00:02:44,620 And so this book recently released To Catch a Fish. 37 00:02:44,620 --> 00:02:50,300 It's not a specifically a fly fishing book, but you talk about fly fishing a lot. 38 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,020 How did you get into fly fishing to begin with? 39 00:02:53,580 --> 00:02:56,820 Well, I didn't start with fly fishing. 40 00:02:57,540 --> 00:02:58,740 Like most of us. 41 00:02:59,380 --> 00:02:59,680 Right. 42 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:01,860 I started as a little kid with a worm. 43 00:03:01,860 --> 00:03:10,340 and then I went from there like a lot of people do in New England where I'm from 44 00:03:10,340 --> 00:03:16,660 if you don't happen to own a boat you become a surfcaster and I did surf casting for a lot of 45 00:03:16,660 --> 00:03:21,900 years and you know both fishing all kinds of fishing when I had the opportunity 46 00:03:21,900 --> 00:03:32,980 and bit by bit I started experimenting with fly fishing and um you know it just uh consumes you 47 00:03:32,980 --> 00:03:43,980 it does I was trying to avoid saying it hooks you you know um yeah I mean it's uh it's the most 48 00:03:43,980 --> 00:03:49,700 challenging way to fish and so it's the most interesting yeah and when I when I was reading 49 00:03:49,700 --> 00:03:55,420 reading your book and you talk about you know all the different species of fish you can catch 50 00:03:55,420 --> 00:04:00,460 particularly in fly fishing and you have a section there about striped bass fishing and 51 00:04:00,460 --> 00:04:06,580 but i think when most of us or most people not necessarily me but most people when they think 52 00:04:06,580 --> 00:04:11,380 about fly fishing they think about trout fishing and you dedicate a good amount of time would you 53 00:04:11,380 --> 00:04:17,860 agree with that assessment i think is all fly fishing kind of couched in trout fishing and 54 00:04:17,860 --> 00:04:24,040 then expands for well well that or salmon salmon yeah i mean fly fishing for salmon is a great 55 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:30,920 experience both pacific species and atlantic salmon yeah and i come from the northwest 56 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:37,200 originally oregon and oh well then then you know salmon fishing right well i don't really fly fish 57 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:45,440 for salmon i but i fly fish for trout particularly rainbow trout in steelhead right i have fly fish 58 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,980 for Atlantic salmon, but as you mentioned in the book, 59 00:04:48,100 --> 00:04:52,580 in North America anymore, there's not many left. 60 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:54,660 In Europe either. 61 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:56,240 Yeah, right. All around. 62 00:04:56,540 --> 00:04:59,640 You see a lot of salmon at the stores. 63 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:01,640 Atlantic salmon in the stores is all farmed. 64 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,280 It is all farmed no matter what they tell you. 65 00:05:05,740 --> 00:05:09,920 I don't think there's any legal commercial fishery 66 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:11,280 for Atlantic salmon anymore. 67 00:05:11,700 --> 00:05:13,800 Yeah, unless it's down in South America 68 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:15,060 where they're not native. 69 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:22,520 right right yeah i had a chance to go to uh the gas bay peninsula about 20 years ago for 70 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:29,100 about a week fishing for atlantic salmon and i hooked one hooked one in that entire week 71 00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:34,160 that was exciting enough i guess well i'll tell you something i fished for atlantic salmon 72 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:43,000 in a number of places and all totals you know how many i've caught one one landed one huh 73 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,140 I landed one in Scotland. 74 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:45,920 Oh, wow. 75 00:05:45,980 --> 00:05:47,120 That's the birthplace. 76 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:53,780 And what really struck me was that everybody I knew in Scotland was sending emails about it. 77 00:05:54,140 --> 00:05:54,360 Oh, wow. 78 00:05:54,940 --> 00:05:58,160 I mean, it was unusual enough to talk about. 79 00:05:58,340 --> 00:05:58,540 Yeah. 80 00:05:58,700 --> 00:06:08,800 And you, early on in this book, you talk about fish just in general and don't have the exact quote, but you talk about them being smart and fish being smart. 81 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:15,280 And you have a prescription at the tail end of the book about how a fish should be able to avoid being caught. 82 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,860 Yes, I hope fish read this book so that they can avoid it. 83 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:20,440 Exactly. 84 00:06:20,580 --> 00:06:21,100 Yeah, why not? 85 00:06:21,540 --> 00:06:22,980 But you talk about them being smart. 86 00:06:22,980 --> 00:06:25,600 I do a lot of catch and release. 87 00:06:25,860 --> 00:06:26,260 Yeah, yeah. 88 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:27,100 As do I. 89 00:06:27,220 --> 00:06:34,300 When I release a fish, when I put it back in the river, I always say, and let that be a lesson to you. 90 00:06:36,380 --> 00:06:37,420 Yeah, there you go. 91 00:06:37,420 --> 00:06:45,940 uh, we talked about the fish being smart and I was, you know, in the fly fishing industry for years, 92 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:52,840 did retail, was a guide, uh, worked for several companies around that. But I got turned on to the 93 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:57,780 idea, you know, cause I grew up thinking, Oh, these fish are so smart. You know, they're so 94 00:06:57,780 --> 00:07:03,840 wily, but there was a fellow named Gary Borger. He's a, he's a scientist. I think he was at Penn 95 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:09,280 State University at one time. He was actually the consultant to Robert Redford on A River Runs 96 00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:15,480 Through It, who you mentioned this book and the movie toward the end. But he said, they can't be 97 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:21,000 smart. Their brains are the size of pencil erasers. Well, but the rest of it isn't that big either. 98 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:27,720 Come on. Yeah, right. Yeah. So anyway, I think it's splitting hairs a little bit, but I think we 99 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:33,300 we project a lot upon these wonderful animals that we fish for. 100 00:07:33,900 --> 00:07:34,960 We do, but, but, you know, 101 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,040 there's some things that they do that you just, you know, 102 00:07:38,060 --> 00:07:41,200 you just have to wonder like the way you do, if you're, 103 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,780 if you're finding a sockeye salmon and you finally get it to the point where 104 00:07:45,780 --> 00:07:50,720 you just about got it to the net and it kind of looks up and turns around and 105 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:55,420 darts out to see again, you think, you know, this animal is thinking. 106 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:57,100 No, they're wonderful. And you know, 107 00:07:57,100 --> 00:07:59,380 my life has been fishing. 108 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:00,240 Like I said, 109 00:08:00,260 --> 00:08:02,300 like fishing and baseball for the most part, 110 00:08:02,380 --> 00:08:02,940 those are the, 111 00:08:02,940 --> 00:08:03,160 the, 112 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,020 the real passions in my life. 113 00:08:05,020 --> 00:08:05,280 And, 114 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:05,860 you know, 115 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:06,720 those are the, 116 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:08,800 those are the two important things. 117 00:08:08,980 --> 00:08:09,240 Yes, 118 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:09,980 exactly. 119 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:10,440 Yeah. 120 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:11,600 Yeah. 121 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,340 I want to talk about a little bit about the, 122 00:08:13,340 --> 00:08:16,560 the literature that you mentioned in the book. 123 00:08:16,580 --> 00:08:17,600 Let's talk first, 124 00:08:17,660 --> 00:08:19,260 maybe about a river runs through it. 125 00:08:19,300 --> 00:08:19,420 You, 126 00:08:19,540 --> 00:08:21,540 you more or less toward the end of the book, 127 00:08:21,540 --> 00:08:23,500 this book was just so revolutionary. 128 00:08:23,620 --> 00:08:25,060 I don't actually know about the book. 129 00:08:25,060 --> 00:08:28,360 The book came out in, what, 1976, almost 50 years ago. 130 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,220 But then the movie came out in the early 90s. 131 00:08:32,380 --> 00:08:32,600 Yeah. 132 00:08:32,940 --> 00:08:35,680 You know, Redford wanted to do it. 133 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,300 And McLean, the author, didn't want him to. 134 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,080 And fought him for a long time. 135 00:08:42,580 --> 00:08:45,000 And finally said, okay, go ahead and do it. 136 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:46,920 And, you know, he died before the movie came out. 137 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:47,180 All right. 138 00:08:47,220 --> 00:08:49,760 And I didn't realize that there was a little tension there. 139 00:08:49,900 --> 00:08:54,140 But I was listening to a podcast with Tom McGuane, who you also mention in the book. 140 00:08:54,420 --> 00:08:54,700 Right. 141 00:08:54,700 --> 00:09:10,477 You know a famous writer and angler himself And he said it was it was podcast with Andy mill And he told Andy that he gave the book to Redford originally 142 00:09:10,477 --> 00:09:15,757 Cause I think Redford wanted to do something about the West and the wild, 143 00:09:15,877 --> 00:09:16,117 the way, 144 00:09:16,177 --> 00:09:16,317 you know, 145 00:09:16,317 --> 00:09:17,877 he's getting into Sundance and all that stuff. 146 00:09:17,877 --> 00:09:18,617 But anyway, 147 00:09:18,617 --> 00:09:19,517 he gave him the book. 148 00:09:19,637 --> 00:09:20,157 And, 149 00:09:20,257 --> 00:09:20,457 uh, 150 00:09:20,657 --> 00:09:21,157 like I said, 151 00:09:21,877 --> 00:09:22,677 Borgia was the, 152 00:09:22,677 --> 00:09:22,937 uh, 153 00:09:22,937 --> 00:09:23,877 the consultant there, 154 00:09:23,877 --> 00:09:25,117 but Gary's son, 155 00:09:25,217 --> 00:09:30,477 Jason was the stunt double for Brad Pitt and apparently Brad Pitt can't fish 156 00:09:30,477 --> 00:09:35,137 with a lick. So none of that stuff was, was Brad Pitt. It was all Jason Forger. 157 00:09:35,597 --> 00:09:38,037 But that's okay because you know, you can't, 158 00:09:38,277 --> 00:09:41,537 you really can't catch a trout that way. No. And that, that, 159 00:09:41,597 --> 00:09:44,237 that's what I wanted to get to. Fantastic casts, you know, 160 00:09:44,317 --> 00:09:47,377 they look great in the movie, but that's not how you do it. 161 00:09:47,437 --> 00:09:48,797 That's what I wanted to get to. 162 00:09:48,797 --> 00:09:54,057 And I think people coming to fly fishing brand new, 163 00:09:54,057 --> 00:10:03,797 they see this movie, which is an iconic movie, and they see the guy casting, you know, the beautiful cast, and he's not tangled and all this stuff. 164 00:10:04,037 --> 00:10:14,057 And, you know, of course, in the book and in the movie, they talk about how he has to wave it around to look like a salmon fly or stone fly or whatever it is. 165 00:10:14,577 --> 00:10:21,477 It's about hogwash because you just want your fly in the water as much as possible to catch fish. 166 00:10:21,477 --> 00:10:25,197 The trout is looking up at the sky to watch the flight patterns. 167 00:10:25,897 --> 00:10:26,337 Exactly. 168 00:10:27,457 --> 00:10:32,437 When I started doing this and I saw people, you know, they're whipping the fly around. 169 00:10:32,557 --> 00:10:34,297 I was like, no, no, no, no. 170 00:10:34,757 --> 00:10:38,997 I often wonder about that if people see that movie and then start casting like that. 171 00:10:38,997 --> 00:10:42,437 It's absolutely true, but they have no, they have no way. 172 00:10:43,397 --> 00:10:48,757 First, they don't know how to cast and then they try and do this fancy shadow casting. 173 00:10:48,997 --> 00:10:50,097 And guess what happens? 174 00:10:50,097 --> 00:10:54,657 well you get all sorts of knots and tangles in your line what happens when you have a knot in 175 00:10:54,657 --> 00:11:00,757 your leader well you get a fish on and it breaks off right the only time you do a cast anything 176 00:11:00,757 --> 00:11:08,077 like that is if you're fishing with a dry fly and the fly gets the fly gets too wet sure and you want 177 00:11:08,077 --> 00:11:14,037 to whip it around in the air a little bit to dry it off but that's not how you'll catch a fish yeah 178 00:11:14,037 --> 00:11:19,677 when i was guiding i was like i got so frustrated with this i why do people do this you know like 179 00:11:19,677 --> 00:11:24,517 because they saw the movie they saw the movie right and and so you know they're they're out 180 00:11:24,517 --> 00:11:28,697 here with the brand new rod brand new reel brand new fly line brand new waders all this stuff 181 00:11:28,697 --> 00:11:35,357 but they can't fish worth a lick and it's like no i'll i'll just show you put the put the fly here 182 00:11:35,357 --> 00:11:41,297 flip it out and you don't have to cast very far and you'll catch some fish but they of course 183 00:11:41,297 --> 00:11:47,137 people continue to want to to want to do that yeah i i would just i would just say though that 184 00:11:47,137 --> 00:11:52,997 it's a lovely movie it is a lovely movie and and it doesn't teach you it doesn't teach you how to 185 00:11:52,997 --> 00:11:58,537 fly fish but it teaches you why correct and with this this whole shadow casting and all that stuff 186 00:11:58,537 --> 00:12:04,257 i developed what i call o'leary's first law of fly fishing and i said thou cannot cast thyself 187 00:12:04,257 --> 00:12:10,037 out of a tangle so i see people like oh no we're tangled up let me let me just try and finish the 188 00:12:10,037 --> 00:12:16,497 well no you have to stop and untangle yourself because you're in a mess and the fish inevitably 189 00:12:16,497 --> 00:12:27,597 Whether they're smart or not, whenever you get a fish on, or if you are in a tangle, the fish start rising and jumping and they're hopping all around you. 190 00:12:27,977 --> 00:12:30,897 And the timing of this thing is quite unique. 191 00:12:31,177 --> 00:12:39,157 I always think, and this is probably just my imagination, but when trout start jumping up like that, I think they're making fun of me. 192 00:12:39,237 --> 00:12:39,997 Yeah, yeah. 193 00:12:40,217 --> 00:12:41,697 They're just laughing at me. 194 00:12:42,257 --> 00:12:45,097 You talk in the book, you have a big section. 195 00:12:45,097 --> 00:12:54,497 And I actually wrote a, I was telling my wife this after I read your book or actually right as soon as I got the book, I turned it to the index and the bibliography. 196 00:12:54,497 --> 00:12:59,077 And I'm like, man, he reads a lot of the books or a lot of books that I've read. 197 00:12:59,077 --> 00:13:02,697 So I wrote this paper in college, the history of fly fishing. 198 00:13:02,817 --> 00:13:08,197 And I was like, geez, did he copy my bibliography from 25 years ago or whatever it was? 199 00:13:08,637 --> 00:13:10,717 And there's a lot of the same books. 200 00:13:10,717 --> 00:13:16,477 But a lot of these books that you have in your bibliography are foundational texts to the entire sport. 201 00:13:16,917 --> 00:13:16,957 Right. 202 00:13:17,077 --> 00:13:22,717 But one book you mentioned, it was, oh gosh, about women in fly fishing, Lila Foggia. 203 00:13:23,377 --> 00:13:24,677 I think she's from Oregon too, I believe. 204 00:13:24,897 --> 00:13:29,957 But I read that one and we don't have a ton of women in the sport. 205 00:13:29,957 --> 00:13:41,137 But you give pretty thorough women, influential women in the sport of fly fishing and how they have really developed a lot of the creature comforts. 206 00:13:41,297 --> 00:13:49,417 Yeah. And, you know, Orvis and a lot of the people in the industry now say that the fastest growing demographic in fly fishing is women. 207 00:13:49,677 --> 00:13:54,857 Yeah, I don't doubt it. When I was involved, there were like clubs, like women's fly fishing clubs. 208 00:13:54,857 --> 00:14:00,797 And I took one time I took this group of, I don't know, like 10 women out learning how to fly fish. 209 00:14:00,797 --> 00:14:04,657 And, you know, probably a percentage wise, this just goes with any demographic. 210 00:14:04,657 --> 00:14:08,517 A few of them continue, but it was pretty neat to see them all together. 211 00:14:08,517 --> 00:14:16,257 But one thing that I learned that you didn't have in here because you talked about the waiters and how like women want to be comfortable. 212 00:14:16,257 --> 00:14:17,557 Of course, we all want to be comfortable. 213 00:14:17,557 --> 00:14:25,297 So all this equipment comes from wanting to be more comfortable as opposed to having galoshes and all this stuff. 214 00:14:25,737 --> 00:14:34,177 But the fishing rods or fly rods, maybe specifically, the grips used to be made of rattan, from what I understand. 215 00:14:34,457 --> 00:14:39,677 And there were so many women getting involved in fishing whenever they did this change. 216 00:14:39,817 --> 00:14:42,157 They said, I need something softer on my hand. 217 00:14:42,157 --> 00:14:45,857 So then now we have cork on our handles. 218 00:14:45,857 --> 00:14:53,557 And thank you, women of fly fishing, for that, because I can't imagine holding a rattan handle all day long. 219 00:14:53,857 --> 00:14:56,557 Right. And also some lighter rods. 220 00:14:56,797 --> 00:14:58,137 Lighter rods. Exactly. 221 00:14:58,497 --> 00:15:09,197 Oh, I was going to say, Joan Wolf, she is so influential and perhaps in the general public not given enough credit because she was a wonderful flycaster. 222 00:15:09,197 --> 00:15:18,217 obviously the the wife of the great lee wolf but she created this fly casting it's almost like a 223 00:15:18,217 --> 00:15:24,977 toy but it's not a toy it's a it's a tool to learn how to learn how to cast with with just a small 224 00:15:24,977 --> 00:15:31,657 lightweight rod and a piece of yarn to make sure that you get your loops right and i we we have one 225 00:15:31,657 --> 00:15:36,737 here at the house for the for the boys so and and and my daughter yeah when she was she came from a 226 00:15:36,737 --> 00:15:42,237 dancing back then that's what you mentioned i was not aware of that before i read yeah and you know 227 00:15:42,237 --> 00:15:51,217 i i saw that work because uh my daughter was a dancer from a very young age she started in ballet 228 00:15:51,217 --> 00:16:00,697 and uh i mean you taught her a cast you didn't even have to show it to her you just explained it 229 00:16:00,697 --> 00:16:07,437 and she did it perfectly and she just and she understood the rhythm of it and the balance of it 230 00:16:07,437 --> 00:16:12,057 and you know dance is a great background for fly fishing yeah i don't doubt it i mean what you 231 00:16:12,057 --> 00:16:19,197 mentioned in the book is that it teaches one or the woman or the girl in particular but any dancer 232 00:16:19,197 --> 00:16:28,097 how to use your entire body to do these magnificent feats that you know you think like oh cast 100 233 00:16:28,097 --> 00:16:33,177 feet or cast 200 feet like this little person can't do this you have this big hulking human 234 00:16:33,177 --> 00:16:39,057 being it's no you really don't you have to harness all your body's capability and you know some of 235 00:16:39,057 --> 00:16:45,497 the some of the best fly casters are relatively slight people yeah yeah well my my fantasy is to 236 00:16:45,497 --> 00:16:53,817 have been able to one day go fly fishing with uh new yam with rudolph new yam the great dancer okay 237 00:16:53,817 --> 00:16:57,617 I don't know if he, he probably never did go fly fishing. 238 00:17:00,777 --> 00:17:06,917 We're going to get right back to the show in a second here, folks, but I need to stop and ask you a direct question. 239 00:17:07,117 --> 00:17:22,797 You're listening to this show for a number of reasons, but you probably know that this modern economy, which we talk a lot about under Substack, BrianDeOleary.Substack.com, you know that this economy is a bare knuckle brawl. 240 00:17:22,797 --> 00:17:27,917 you know, the corporate algorithms, the bureaucrats, and all the tech giants. 241 00:17:28,017 --> 00:17:32,737 They want you broke, dependent, and begging for permission to run your business. 242 00:17:32,877 --> 00:17:33,677 We're not them. 243 00:17:33,877 --> 00:17:35,337 So what are you going to do about it? 244 00:17:35,657 --> 00:17:39,637 Well, if you're still waiting for the market to be fair, you're going to get knocked out. 245 00:17:39,977 --> 00:17:42,457 You need absolute ownership of your platform. 246 00:17:42,717 --> 00:17:47,657 And that's what I'm trying to do here with podcasts, emails, sub stacks, all of it. 247 00:17:47,817 --> 00:17:48,677 You need a fortress. 248 00:17:48,677 --> 00:17:50,377 so my solution 249 00:17:50,377 --> 00:17:51,797 I have exactly 250 00:17:51,797 --> 00:17:53,157 two slots left 251 00:17:53,157 --> 00:17:54,777 for the April 252 00:17:54,777 --> 00:18:05,075 platform domination consults cost we get on the phone or a zoom we map out your empire We find the hidden money you leaving on the table 253 00:18:05,535 --> 00:18:06,895 People have helped me do this. 254 00:18:07,255 --> 00:18:08,155 I'm paying it forward. 255 00:18:08,655 --> 00:18:12,295 So this is not a chat to coddle you. 256 00:18:12,815 --> 00:18:14,235 It is a battle plan. 257 00:18:14,915 --> 00:18:16,995 And if we end up working together long-term, 258 00:18:17,735 --> 00:18:22,395 well, that $297 will be credited straight to your balance. 259 00:18:22,395 --> 00:18:24,075 So stop making excuses. 260 00:18:24,075 --> 00:18:28,115 go to Brian D. O'Leary.com slash domination. 261 00:18:28,495 --> 00:18:35,775 That's Brian D. O'Leary.com slash domination right now and secure your slot before your competitors do. 262 00:18:36,015 --> 00:18:37,675 Now back to Mark Kurlansky. 263 00:18:39,975 --> 00:18:44,475 You just gave him a few pointers. He probably would have been incredible. 264 00:18:44,775 --> 00:18:49,935 Yeah. And it's, it's interesting, you know, with fishing, there's people that really enjoy it. 265 00:18:50,195 --> 00:18:53,815 And there's people that, that don't care, but I don't know. 266 00:18:53,815 --> 00:18:56,815 is it Americans or Westerners or something? 267 00:18:56,895 --> 00:19:00,795 There's something about the rivers and the, 268 00:19:01,075 --> 00:19:02,895 in a lot of the places we all grow up, 269 00:19:02,935 --> 00:19:06,895 people are aware of just fishing in general. 270 00:19:06,895 --> 00:19:07,555 It is, 271 00:19:07,555 --> 00:19:13,215 is ubiquitous even though maybe fly fishing is a very specific skill. 272 00:19:13,335 --> 00:19:18,335 Did you come across that or have any comments on the ubiquitousness of fishing 273 00:19:18,335 --> 00:19:18,935 in the culture? 274 00:19:19,535 --> 00:19:19,555 Well, 275 00:19:20,135 --> 00:19:20,655 yeah, 276 00:19:20,735 --> 00:19:21,075 I mean, 277 00:19:21,075 --> 00:19:21,315 it's, 278 00:19:21,415 --> 00:19:22,855 it's in all cultures. 279 00:19:23,195 --> 00:19:23,515 Um, 280 00:19:23,515 --> 00:19:26,055 except for certain 281 00:19:26,055 --> 00:19:30,315 Buddhists who think it's immoral. 282 00:19:30,935 --> 00:19:33,635 I was in Tibet and I saw some great rivers there. 283 00:19:34,435 --> 00:19:36,775 And I thought, no one's ever fished these rivers 284 00:19:36,775 --> 00:19:38,595 because it's not allowed. 285 00:19:39,715 --> 00:19:41,855 I just sneak out one day and fish 286 00:19:41,855 --> 00:19:44,955 one of these rivers. I bet it would be fantastic. 287 00:19:45,855 --> 00:19:46,715 I didn't. 288 00:19:46,715 --> 00:19:50,855 You talk a lot about the, one chapter in particular 289 00:19:50,855 --> 00:19:58,855 about the irish and i myself being of irish extraction i appreciated that quite a bit you 290 00:19:58,855 --> 00:20:04,815 talk about yates who i didn't read a whole lot of but he also talked about morris walsh 291 00:20:04,815 --> 00:20:11,415 and his fishing stories and he was a guy have you have you have you have you read them 292 00:20:11,415 --> 00:20:18,715 i haven't it was oh read it read it i will and i was going to get to that it is it is so fantastic 293 00:20:18,715 --> 00:20:21,155 And I have to tell you, it is so Irish. 294 00:20:22,615 --> 00:20:23,095 Yeah. 295 00:20:23,335 --> 00:20:33,675 And so I was going to say, like, throughout this book, it's a bunch of small, short essays, really, I guess, is how you would describe your book. 296 00:20:33,855 --> 00:20:44,455 But it's not like one of these fishing books that I grew to despise where you would write these flowing, flowery essays about the sport. 297 00:20:44,555 --> 00:20:47,735 No, you're just telling me how it is and what it is. 298 00:20:47,735 --> 00:20:59,735 And so what I liked about this, when you talked about the Irish culture around fishing and fly fishing in particular, is that it gave me a lot of resources to go back to. 299 00:21:00,035 --> 00:21:02,915 And, you know, because I say like, oh, I just checked out your bibliography. 300 00:21:03,035 --> 00:21:04,995 I read all almost all those books. 301 00:21:05,575 --> 00:21:13,255 And then I got to thinking after reading, it's like just when you think you've read a lot, you realize you haven't read very much. 302 00:21:13,255 --> 00:21:21,695 and so this book is full of not only resources but your take on what these resources and i appreciate 303 00:21:21,695 --> 00:21:26,715 you talking about walsh because he also wrote the quiet man which is one of my favorite john wayne 304 00:21:26,715 --> 00:21:36,695 movies although although quite different from the story oh yeah in the story uh he is irish he's uh 305 00:21:36,695 --> 00:21:46,855 uh uh republican even um and uh and he returned to ireland to fight and uh 306 00:21:48,295 --> 00:21:55,415 uh and he's not a heavyweight and uh so his his would-be brother-in-law is kind of a heavyweight 307 00:21:55,415 --> 00:22:00,295 but the thing is he knew how to box but it's just all about fishing you know it's 308 00:22:00,295 --> 00:22:04,855 i remember the moment where i realized i loved ireland 309 00:22:04,855 --> 00:22:12,175 and have you gone fishing over there i have i have yeah in the blackwater river county cork 310 00:22:12,175 --> 00:22:23,095 salmon river but i was in galway um at a pub talking with some marine biologists because i 311 00:22:23,095 --> 00:22:28,455 was writing a book about salmon and so we're in the pub drinking you know guinness after guinness 312 00:22:28,455 --> 00:22:36,495 good man and and what did they i mean they got into this great debate about fishing and about 313 00:22:36,495 --> 00:22:43,435 what flies on that local river and then from there it went on to a discussion of dogs 314 00:22:43,435 --> 00:22:51,255 and from there it went on to a discussion about literature uh-huh poetry and i thought 315 00:22:51,255 --> 00:22:58,115 people who love poetry dogs and fishing this is a great country you know and one of my favorite 316 00:22:58,115 --> 00:23:00,955 lines in this book is 317 00:23:00,955 --> 00:23:03,215 not about fishing, but 318 00:23:03,215 --> 00:23:05,635 about Irish poets. 319 00:23:06,495 --> 00:23:08,155 So the poets are to Ireland, 320 00:23:08,315 --> 00:23:09,695 but cheese is to France. 321 00:23:10,695 --> 00:23:11,875 That's true, yeah. 322 00:23:12,055 --> 00:23:13,395 I went to Boston College. 323 00:23:13,655 --> 00:23:14,095 Oh, did you? 324 00:23:14,095 --> 00:23:16,275 Yeah, and we had, 325 00:23:16,715 --> 00:23:18,315 I wasn't fortunate to take 326 00:23:18,315 --> 00:23:20,175 his class because it filled up way too soon, 327 00:23:20,315 --> 00:23:22,115 but Seamus Haney, the 328 00:23:22,115 --> 00:23:23,935 famous Irish poet, taught 329 00:23:23,935 --> 00:23:26,055 at least one semester, came over 330 00:23:26,055 --> 00:23:27,675 and taught for 331 00:23:27,675 --> 00:23:31,035 for a few weeks or something. I think some, there was another professor that, but I, 332 00:23:31,275 --> 00:23:36,575 he had a, he had a poem that I really liked about, uh, trout and actually, I actually, 333 00:23:36,835 --> 00:23:44,815 believe it or not, took a class learning Irish, the language. And we had to write a poem in that 334 00:23:44,815 --> 00:23:53,075 class. And I wrote a poem about a rainbow trout. I was about 20 years old and, uh, 335 00:23:53,075 --> 00:23:55,695 I wrote this poem in Irish. 336 00:23:55,775 --> 00:23:56,575 I have it somewhere, 337 00:23:56,575 --> 00:23:58,955 but I didn't really know the language, 338 00:23:59,055 --> 00:23:59,235 right? 339 00:23:59,295 --> 00:24:02,035 It was essentially translating and I wrote my English poem, 340 00:24:02,095 --> 00:24:03,215 then trying to translate it. 341 00:24:03,335 --> 00:24:03,395 And, 342 00:24:03,955 --> 00:24:04,175 um, 343 00:24:04,175 --> 00:24:05,235 I didn't think it was very good, 344 00:24:05,235 --> 00:24:05,895 but man, 345 00:24:06,115 --> 00:24:07,455 the teacher was like, 346 00:24:07,715 --> 00:24:11,555 can I take this and use this for my class? 347 00:24:11,675 --> 00:24:11,975 I'm like, 348 00:24:12,035 --> 00:24:12,195 yeah, 349 00:24:12,195 --> 00:24:12,355 sure. 350 00:24:12,455 --> 00:24:12,655 Fine. 351 00:24:12,795 --> 00:24:13,035 Whatever. 352 00:24:13,255 --> 00:24:15,055 So I don't know whatever happened to that poem, 353 00:24:15,055 --> 00:24:15,635 but it's, 354 00:24:15,695 --> 00:24:16,795 it's around here somewhere. 355 00:24:16,995 --> 00:24:17,155 Well, 356 00:24:17,235 --> 00:24:17,495 you know, 357 00:24:17,495 --> 00:24:19,255 rainbow trout aren't Irish. 358 00:24:19,615 --> 00:24:19,935 Well, 359 00:24:20,115 --> 00:24:20,395 I was, 360 00:24:20,635 --> 00:24:21,295 you should have, 361 00:24:21,355 --> 00:24:22,715 you should have done a brown trout. 362 00:24:22,715 --> 00:24:28,735 I think I was, yeah, it was maybe just about a trout, but I was thinking rainbow trout because that's where I'm from. 363 00:24:29,075 --> 00:24:29,395 Right. 364 00:24:29,535 --> 00:24:30,195 From the Northwest. 365 00:24:30,635 --> 00:24:33,515 Well, you know, they've planted rainbow trout everywhere in the world. 366 00:24:33,755 --> 00:24:36,835 They were originally only in certain Western rivers. 367 00:24:37,155 --> 00:24:40,715 And it is one of the all-time greatest fly fishing targets. 368 00:24:41,615 --> 00:24:42,395 They're everywhere now. 369 00:24:42,535 --> 00:24:44,295 I think you mentioned 50 states. 370 00:24:44,415 --> 00:24:45,715 I'm like, what about Hawaii? 371 00:24:45,915 --> 00:24:46,175 I don't know. 372 00:24:46,355 --> 00:24:50,715 There's a place in, like, isn't it the island of Kauai that you can go rainbow trout fishing? 373 00:24:51,115 --> 00:24:51,395 Yes. 374 00:24:51,395 --> 00:24:52,235 Something like that. 375 00:24:52,235 --> 00:25:03,235 But, you know, in Vermont, I fished in Vermont, and nobody wants to catch the local fish. 376 00:25:03,815 --> 00:25:04,175 The brook trout. 377 00:25:05,415 --> 00:25:06,575 Yeah, the brookies. 378 00:25:06,975 --> 00:25:09,755 Everybody's disappointed when they get a brookie because they want a rainbow. 379 00:25:10,295 --> 00:25:11,595 The rainbows aren't from there. 380 00:25:11,635 --> 00:25:13,135 The brookie is the local trout. 381 00:25:13,355 --> 00:25:14,855 It gets no respect at all. 382 00:25:15,055 --> 00:25:17,155 Yeah, it is the way of things. 383 00:25:17,155 --> 00:25:25,955 I think it was the McLeod River rainbow trout was the most, because they were, they're bigger than say the, like the desert red bands of Oregon and stuff. 384 00:25:26,075 --> 00:25:34,755 But man, I think you mentioned in the book somewhere that pound for pound, the rainbow trout is the hardest fighting fish or the best fighting fish or something. 385 00:25:34,895 --> 00:25:37,255 I would, something I would absolutely agree with. 386 00:25:37,595 --> 00:25:38,075 Yeah. 387 00:25:38,195 --> 00:25:40,775 I tell people about a 14, 15 inch rainbow trout. 388 00:25:40,855 --> 00:25:42,355 You can't beat it for fun. 389 00:25:42,815 --> 00:25:43,275 Oh yeah. 390 00:25:43,275 --> 00:25:46,275 I, I've fished in, uh, in Russia. 391 00:25:47,155 --> 00:25:55,055 in uh with some chotka sure and they have huge rainbow trout and they also have salmon 392 00:25:55,055 --> 00:26:01,855 and it's kind of hard to tell when you first get a hit on your line if you've got a trout or a 393 00:26:01,855 --> 00:26:11,735 salmon because uh this trout is so strong i was fishing for salmon up in alaska and i with a 394 00:26:11,735 --> 00:26:18,055 two-hander like seven weight two-handed rod i think it was and i got this fish on and good grief 395 00:26:18,055 --> 00:26:23,615 it was probably like a 24 inch rainbow trout you know thick as and i thought it was like one of the 396 00:26:23,615 --> 00:26:30,695 biggest accomplishments because you know steelhead fishing in oregon and washington like that's a 397 00:26:30,695 --> 00:26:36,635 pretty pretty good size fish so a small for a steelhead but it's still a pretty good size fish 398 00:26:36,635 --> 00:26:40,755 i was like this is just a rainbow trend this is what lives in the river here good grief right 399 00:26:40,755 --> 00:26:41,515 Yeah. 400 00:26:41,735 --> 00:26:44,095 No, Alaska's fantastic. 401 00:26:44,255 --> 00:26:44,935 Those rivers. 402 00:26:45,635 --> 00:26:49,535 I love the way those rivers have these virgin banks, you know? 403 00:26:50,635 --> 00:26:51,775 It's just wild. 404 00:26:52,235 --> 00:26:53,715 Yeah, you talk about Kamchaka, too. 405 00:26:53,875 --> 00:27:05,692 I mean I don know if you mention it in the book but man a friend of mine had guided over there for a few years And then I clearly can do that now because of the political situation But he just I don know 406 00:27:05,772 --> 00:27:09,752 I think maybe the whole fishing thing in Russia has shut down. 407 00:27:10,012 --> 00:27:10,912 Yeah, I think you're right. 408 00:27:11,772 --> 00:27:12,472 It's true. 409 00:27:12,472 --> 00:27:14,472 God, it was an incredible experience. 410 00:27:15,132 --> 00:27:22,572 They take you up into these remote areas in forgotten old Red Army helicopters. 411 00:27:22,572 --> 00:27:30,992 these ancient huge uh helicopters that the red army used to use to deploy troops 412 00:27:30,992 --> 00:27:36,672 take you into the wild you talk a lot about fly fishing in the book but it's not everything 413 00:27:36,672 --> 00:27:41,832 you talk about in the book no i even get into commercial fishing i love commercial fishing 414 00:27:41,832 --> 00:27:50,912 so how did you get into that well needed a job paid the money i did it well i needed a job 415 00:27:50,912 --> 00:27:52,612 and I had this idea 416 00:27:52,612 --> 00:27:54,712 because I always wanted to be a writer 417 00:27:54,712 --> 00:27:56,392 and I always had this idea 418 00:27:56,392 --> 00:27:58,952 that if I wanted to be a writer, I should do 419 00:27:58,952 --> 00:28:00,052 interesting things. 420 00:28:00,512 --> 00:28:03,032 When I first graduated from high school, 421 00:28:03,452 --> 00:28:04,752 I was 17 years old 422 00:28:04,752 --> 00:28:06,992 and I thought it would be an interesting thing 423 00:28:06,992 --> 00:28:08,692 to get a job as a commercial fisherman. 424 00:28:09,252 --> 00:28:10,052 It was. It was great. 425 00:28:10,312 --> 00:28:12,432 Where did you go out of? Gloucester? 426 00:28:13,092 --> 00:28:15,192 No, Fisher's Island. 427 00:28:15,512 --> 00:28:15,852 Okay. 428 00:28:16,792 --> 00:28:18,572 We go and we fish 429 00:28:18,572 --> 00:28:21,472 really off of Rhode Island, 430 00:28:21,712 --> 00:28:23,052 the trenches off of Rhode Island. 431 00:28:23,592 --> 00:28:25,572 And what type of fish were you catching there, typically? 432 00:28:26,352 --> 00:28:26,732 Bluefish? 433 00:28:26,792 --> 00:28:29,452 Well, no, the job I had was lobster. 434 00:28:29,792 --> 00:28:31,172 Oh, lobster. You were a lobsterman. 435 00:28:31,952 --> 00:28:33,952 Right. But then I experimented. 436 00:28:33,992 --> 00:28:35,652 I did a little bit of other stuff, 437 00:28:35,752 --> 00:28:37,452 bottom dragging, stuff like that. 438 00:28:37,452 --> 00:28:39,932 But I mainly worked on lobster boats. 439 00:28:40,412 --> 00:28:40,672 Oh, wow. 440 00:28:41,072 --> 00:28:43,572 And I have a book coming out next year on lobsters. 441 00:28:44,212 --> 00:28:44,732 Okay. 442 00:28:44,952 --> 00:28:46,932 It's a very personal book. 443 00:28:46,932 --> 00:28:50,712 I have a deep personal relationship with lobsters. 444 00:28:51,192 --> 00:28:51,712 I believe it. 445 00:28:51,772 --> 00:28:51,992 Yeah. 446 00:28:52,152 --> 00:28:54,832 And yeah, you mentioned lobster a little bit in the book. 447 00:28:54,932 --> 00:28:57,852 You talk about how, you know, it's interesting. 448 00:28:58,012 --> 00:29:04,812 When I first got into fly fishing, the striped bass were, I don't know if they were endangered. 449 00:29:04,972 --> 00:29:05,612 They might've been. 450 00:29:06,132 --> 00:29:08,672 They've made a major comeback. 451 00:29:08,672 --> 00:29:13,972 However, like it's huge in Massachusetts down to say Virginia or the Carolinas. 452 00:29:14,192 --> 00:29:15,992 It's really big there. 453 00:29:15,992 --> 00:29:21,112 however you go up north to maine when maine is the state you talk about lobster that's their 454 00:29:21,112 --> 00:29:26,492 state animal i think or something like that and it's the main lobsters are you know just iconic 455 00:29:26,492 --> 00:29:31,892 when we talk about maine and you mentioned in the book that they don't like striped bass all that 456 00:29:31,892 --> 00:29:37,432 much up in maine because they eat all the salmon and they eat all the lobsters that's right 457 00:29:37,432 --> 00:29:43,012 they're not happy well they're very happy you want to go up there and fish for strikers they're 458 00:29:43,012 --> 00:29:44,652 We're very happy to have you come and take them. 459 00:29:44,672 --> 00:29:45,272 And take them. 460 00:29:45,392 --> 00:29:46,072 Yeah, right. 461 00:29:46,372 --> 00:29:47,492 Can't do that with the salmon. 462 00:29:47,892 --> 00:29:48,072 Yeah. 463 00:29:48,572 --> 00:29:50,372 One last thing I want to talk about. 464 00:29:50,432 --> 00:29:52,192 You talk a bit about the Hemingways. 465 00:29:52,532 --> 00:29:53,392 Father and son. 466 00:29:53,672 --> 00:29:57,192 Ernest Hemingway, of course, iconic American author. 467 00:29:57,892 --> 00:30:00,552 But his son, a lot of people don't know about him. 468 00:30:00,572 --> 00:30:02,232 One of his sons, Jack Hemingway. 469 00:30:02,312 --> 00:30:05,772 He wrote a book called Misadventures of a Fly Fisherman. 470 00:30:05,952 --> 00:30:06,592 I think it was. 471 00:30:06,592 --> 00:30:08,132 I read that in college. 472 00:30:08,132 --> 00:30:12,992 And actually, it turned me on to read even more Hemingway. 473 00:30:13,132 --> 00:30:18,792 I'd read Old Man and the Sea and maybe a few other books early on. 474 00:30:18,872 --> 00:30:22,912 But I started reading his father, Ernest Hemingway, quite a bit. 475 00:30:23,092 --> 00:30:24,072 I really enjoyed him. 476 00:30:24,612 --> 00:30:31,092 The more I found out about him, however, later I got in life, I grew to kind of despise him. 477 00:30:31,192 --> 00:30:34,352 And then I was like, you know, how does Jack Hemingway, you know, he turns, 478 00:30:34,352 --> 00:30:41,512 Ernest Hemingway is this big braggadocio, turns into a big braggadocio sail fisherman out in the Gulf Stream and stuff. 479 00:30:41,672 --> 00:30:45,852 But no, early on in life, he was a fly fisherman. 480 00:30:45,852 --> 00:30:48,312 And he taught his boys how to fly fish. 481 00:30:48,732 --> 00:30:52,012 And you talk about the big two-hearted river in there. 482 00:30:52,492 --> 00:30:55,332 It's one of my favorite stories in the book. 483 00:30:55,332 --> 00:31:01,412 So Jack decides he wants to fly fish in all of Papa's great rivers. 484 00:31:01,412 --> 00:31:07,652 So he goes up to the Two-Harted River and he fishes and he couldn't catch anything. 485 00:31:08,532 --> 00:31:15,032 And he said to Papa, he said, you know, I tried the Two-Harted River and I couldn't do anything. 486 00:31:15,232 --> 00:31:18,772 And Papa says, yeah, it's a lousy river for fishing. 487 00:31:18,872 --> 00:31:19,972 I just like the name. 488 00:31:21,392 --> 00:31:24,532 It is a wonderful name and it makes for a great story. 489 00:31:24,532 --> 00:31:26,052 but in that story, 490 00:31:26,352 --> 00:31:28,512 you talk about it, he's fishing 491 00:31:28,512 --> 00:31:30,512 with fly tackle, except he puts a 492 00:31:30,512 --> 00:31:31,812 grasshopper on the end of it. 493 00:31:32,292 --> 00:31:33,812 It's really bait fishing. 494 00:31:34,052 --> 00:31:34,592 Bait fishing. 495 00:31:35,192 --> 00:31:38,352 But he takes these grasshoppers and he 496 00:31:38,352 --> 00:31:40,532 fishes them like a fly, 497 00:31:40,632 --> 00:31:41,772 like an artificial fly. 498 00:31:42,592 --> 00:31:44,472 I don't know how that works. I've never 499 00:31:44,472 --> 00:31:45,532 seen that down. 500 00:31:46,012 --> 00:31:48,552 I'm sure it can be done. It's light enough, I would imagine. 501 00:31:48,712 --> 00:31:49,592 I could probably do it. 502 00:31:49,992 --> 00:31:52,432 But I think that is one of 503 00:31:52,432 --> 00:31:54,432 the great fishing stories. 504 00:31:54,532 --> 00:32:01,012 agreed and it and i think you talk about you mentioned earlier here with us you talk about 505 00:32:01,012 --> 00:32:07,392 like what river runs through it's like it doesn't tell you how to do it but tells you why right and 506 00:32:07,392 --> 00:32:12,932 there's a lot of the why of why we're out there in nature why we're out there with the fish what 507 00:32:12,932 --> 00:32:20,852 it means to to us and i think we can all uh relate to that and of course one of the interesting 508 00:32:20,852 --> 00:32:28,932 things about that story is that that character uh had ptsd he had come back from the war from 509 00:32:28,932 --> 00:32:37,192 world war one right um and and he was going fishing almost as therapy it is therapy that's 510 00:32:37,192 --> 00:32:42,792 why and we've we've since learned now it's a common practice thing to help veterans to take 511 00:32:42,792 --> 00:32:47,892 some fly fishing uh yeah i have a friend of mine whose father was very involved with taking uh 512 00:32:47,892 --> 00:32:52,032 essentially wounded veterans and take some, 513 00:32:52,192 --> 00:32:57,292 take them out on the river and just get them out there and go fishing for the 514 00:32:57,292 --> 00:32:57,572 day. 515 00:32:57,592 --> 00:32:59,832 And then it becomes a passion for life. 516 00:32:59,832 --> 00:33:01,292 And I think this book, 517 00:33:01,292 --> 00:33:06,012 I would just encourage our listeners to go out and get it because it's one of 518 00:33:06,012 --> 00:33:06,472 these books. 519 00:33:06,472 --> 00:33:06,672 I, 520 00:33:06,712 --> 00:33:08,932 I whipped through it no time flat. 521 00:33:08,932 --> 00:33:12,392 It's got a wonderful illustrations and there's, 522 00:33:12,492 --> 00:33:16,132 they're very short essays that you can sit down and read one at a time or read 523 00:33:16,132 --> 00:33:16,832 the whole book at a time, 524 00:33:16,832 --> 00:33:21,172 but it's great just to have around and you could even skip through and, 525 00:33:21,172 --> 00:33:26,312 and read any given one of these essays in no time flat. And it's Mark, 526 00:33:26,592 --> 00:33:30,892 it's, it's, it's just wonderful reading. And I just want to congratulate you on that. 527 00:33:31,292 --> 00:33:34,472 Well, thank you. I, I, I had a great time writing it. 528 00:33:35,672 --> 00:33:39,812 You know, it's something about just writing about things you love. 529 00:33:40,392 --> 00:33:45,312 Yeah. And I think maybe that's the call to action for people to go write and do 530 00:33:45,312 --> 00:33:54,092 things that you love doing because it is sounds like really molded your life to be able to go 531 00:33:54,092 --> 00:34:02,352 and write about and do the things that you're passionate about yeah i mean you know when you 532 00:34:02,352 --> 00:34:08,552 wait out in a river and you feel that current pushing against your legs and you know that 533 00:34:08,552 --> 00:34:14,832 trout is out there waiting for you it's just there's no greater feeling yeah i agree um mark 534 00:34:14,832 --> 00:34:15,612 This has been wonderful. 535 00:34:15,752 --> 00:34:18,232 I know you got to bounce for another appointment. 536 00:34:18,452 --> 00:34:19,292 A big day for you. 537 00:34:19,472 --> 00:34:25,372 Launch of a new book, To Catch a Fish, by Story Publishing, March 31st, 2026. 538 00:34:25,812 --> 00:34:26,932 Any last words, Mark? 539 00:34:27,932 --> 00:34:29,352 No, it's great talking to you. 540 00:34:29,492 --> 00:34:31,172 It's always great talking about fishing, isn't it? 541 00:34:31,512 --> 00:34:32,392 It sure is. 542 00:34:32,432 --> 00:34:33,352 Yeah, I appreciate it. 543 00:34:34,052 --> 00:34:35,472 Hopefully keep in contact with you. 544 00:34:35,532 --> 00:34:39,892 There's a lot of stuff perhaps to talk about in the future with these new books coming out. 545 00:34:39,912 --> 00:34:40,172 Yeah. 546 00:34:40,172 --> 00:34:45,792 The re-release of COD, which was, like I said earlier, a really transformative book for me. 547 00:34:46,032 --> 00:34:47,472 Okay. Well, thank you. 548 00:34:47,592 --> 00:34:48,252 Appreciate it, Mark. 549 00:34:48,492 --> 00:34:49,352 Okay. Good talking. 550 00:34:49,572 --> 00:34:50,152 Okay. Take care. 551 00:34:50,472 --> 00:34:50,732 All right. 552 00:34:50,872 --> 00:34:51,072 Bye-bye. 553 00:34:56,372 --> 00:35:06,432 So, Mark talks about boxing in here in regards to The Quiet Man, a little John Wayne movie and a short story by Morris Walsh, Irishman. 554 00:35:06,432 --> 00:35:13,272 So if you're tired of getting knocked out by the bare-knuckle economy, guess what? 555 00:35:13,792 --> 00:35:20,632 I got two slots left this month, April, for a $297 platform domination consult. 556 00:35:20,932 --> 00:35:27,332 For more on that, go to briandioleary.com slash domination right now and secure your spot. 557 00:35:27,812 --> 00:35:31,152 That's briandioleary.com slash domination. 558 00:35:32,112 --> 00:35:34,912 Secure your spot before your competitors do. 559 00:35:36,432 --> 00:36:00,692 Thank you.