1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:01,160 How many people? 2 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:05,192 Starting from like the base, 3 00:00:05,216 --> 00:00:08,424 any way, shape or form, and 4 00:00:08,592 --> 00:00:13,656 bitcoin equities, and then on 5 00:00:13,848 --> 00:00:14,152 Right? 6 00:00:14,176 --> 00:00:17,032 You're like, so far out the 7 00:00:17,056 --> 00:00:21,048 can make 10, 20x on your 8 00:00:21,144 --> 00:00:24,600 And if you're not familiar 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,752 I think we'd all agree this 10 00:00:27,776 --> 00:00:30,872 headline of the day, if not 11 00:00:30,896 --> 00:00:35,124 this morning and there's like 12 00:00:35,172 --> 00:00:38,244 Lutnick said basically that 13 00:00:38,332 --> 00:00:40,916 the bitcoin strategic reserve 14 00:00:41,068 --> 00:00:45,220 Sailors invited some other 15 00:00:45,260 --> 00:00:46,708 bitcoin, are not invited. 16 00:00:46,804 --> 00:00:50,132 They could technically, 17 00:00:50,156 --> 00:00:54,148 the Exchange Stabilization 18 00:00:54,164 --> 00:00:58,164 of Bitcoin and just say, like, 19 00:00:58,212 --> 00:00:59,428 hundred thousand Bitcoin here. 20 00:00:59,484 --> 00:01:00,708 We, we already bought it. 21 00:01:00,764 --> 00:01:04,144 Until something actually gets 22 00:01:04,152 --> 00:01:07,984 market's really going to 23 00:01:08,032 --> 00:01:08,384 way. 24 00:01:08,472 --> 00:01:11,360 If you right now were in the 25 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,792 do what you think is best for 26 00:01:13,816 --> 00:01:16,192 is best for the American 27 00:01:16,216 --> 00:01:17,540 strategic reserve? 28 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,456 Welcome to the Business 29 00:01:25,488 --> 00:01:28,800 to helping you enrich your 30 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,032 bitcoin, the hardest money on 31 00:01:32,096 --> 00:01:35,806 I'm your host, Josh Friedman, 32 00:01:35,838 --> 00:01:38,878 who you may recognize from 33 00:01:38,974 --> 00:01:41,598 or MSTR True North. 34 00:01:41,734 --> 00:01:43,998 Today on the show, we're going 35 00:01:44,054 --> 00:01:47,070 are beginning to adopt Bitcoin 36 00:01:47,150 --> 00:01:49,726 We're also going to be talking 37 00:01:49,758 --> 00:01:53,694 Week in New York City and the 38 00:01:53,742 --> 00:01:56,490 We're going to get to our 39 00:02:13,753 --> 00:02:15,617 Tim, welcome to the podcast. 40 00:02:15,745 --> 00:02:16,989 Thanks for having me. 41 00:02:17,161 --> 00:02:19,461 So I like to start off every 42 00:02:19,477 --> 00:02:21,957 that help us to get to know 43 00:02:21,965 --> 00:02:23,333 us some insight for our own lives. 44 00:02:23,373 --> 00:02:24,165 Are you ready for these? 45 00:02:24,269 --> 00:02:25,113 I'm ready. 46 00:02:25,453 --> 00:02:26,693 Question number one is this. 47 00:02:26,733 --> 00:02:29,109 When and how did you first 48 00:02:29,221 --> 00:02:33,301 I first learned about bitcoin 49 00:02:33,437 --> 00:02:39,013 One of my limited partner 50 00:02:39,053 --> 00:02:43,221 friend Invited me to a zoom 51 00:02:43,317 --> 00:02:49,907 of his experience with bitcoin 52 00:02:49,915 --> 00:02:52,223 his net worth in early 2017. 53 00:02:52,763 --> 00:02:59,379 And that personal story really 54 00:02:59,411 --> 00:03:00,983 to go down the rabbit hole. 55 00:03:01,403 --> 00:03:02,323 Question number two. 56 00:03:02,363 --> 00:03:05,299 What's an insight or fact 57 00:03:05,371 --> 00:03:08,819 understood the scarcity of bitcoin? 58 00:03:08,931 --> 00:03:12,659 Because I don't think we even 59 00:03:12,691 --> 00:03:19,037 I think we're going to see 60 00:03:19,085 --> 00:03:23,325 of it as we get into the next 61 00:03:23,469 --> 00:03:24,045 Question 3. 62 00:03:24,069 --> 00:03:26,285 What's the Bitcoin resource 63 00:03:26,309 --> 00:03:26,733 people? 64 00:03:26,853 --> 00:03:32,237 Any YouTube video that someone 65 00:03:32,285 --> 00:03:32,653 for them. 66 00:03:32,693 --> 00:03:36,301 Because everyone learns in so 67 00:03:36,357 --> 00:03:40,349 people or personalities might 68 00:03:40,381 --> 00:03:40,953 with. 69 00:03:42,533 --> 00:03:45,357 The best workout to do is the 70 00:03:45,445 --> 00:03:48,345 The best YouTube video on 71 00:03:48,369 --> 00:03:51,353 you'll actually watch that 72 00:03:51,513 --> 00:03:54,569 Now, it was your friend that 73 00:03:54,601 --> 00:03:57,493 or at least helped to grab 74 00:03:57,793 --> 00:04:02,153 So I'm wondering, what types 75 00:04:02,193 --> 00:04:05,133 most helpful in your early 76 00:04:08,833 --> 00:04:15,493 Really back then there were so 77 00:04:17,233 --> 00:04:22,777 for me, Robert Breedlove, 78 00:04:22,905 --> 00:04:27,641 I mean, the whole get to one 79 00:04:27,697 --> 00:04:29,785 kind of like, that was 80 00:04:29,849 --> 00:04:31,225 You know, one bitcoin and beyond. 81 00:04:31,289 --> 00:04:36,265 But yeah, those were kind of 82 00:04:36,289 --> 00:04:39,449 I would, I would say question 83 00:04:39,521 --> 00:04:42,745 Beyond bitcoin, what's a 84 00:04:42,769 --> 00:04:44,585 helpful to you or your work recently? 85 00:04:44,769 --> 00:04:50,137 I'd say following certain 86 00:04:50,185 --> 00:04:55,193 have alpha on social media and 87 00:04:55,233 --> 00:04:58,893 they're commenting on and what 88 00:05:00,113 --> 00:05:01,785 Because there's so much noise. 89 00:05:01,849 --> 00:05:03,337 Like, back to the YouTube videos. 90 00:05:03,385 --> 00:05:08,153 I mean, when I was carefully 91 00:05:08,193 --> 00:05:13,997 many, four years ago, they 92 00:05:14,005 --> 00:05:15,565 the dark at a YouTube video. 93 00:05:15,669 --> 00:05:18,845 And you put bitcoin in the 94 00:05:18,869 --> 00:05:25,293 these to the moon meme, coin, 95 00:05:25,333 --> 00:05:26,873 even find this information? 96 00:05:27,573 --> 00:05:30,993 So, yeah, really through trial 97 00:05:31,813 --> 00:05:34,397 And also someone has alpha. 98 00:05:34,445 --> 00:05:36,301 Seeing what other accounts do 99 00:05:36,437 --> 00:05:39,963 Some of the top accounts, like 100 00:05:40,083 --> 00:05:41,383 600 people. 101 00:05:41,683 --> 00:05:43,995 So you could wouldn't take 102 00:05:44,019 --> 00:05:47,259 entire list and not 103 00:05:47,411 --> 00:05:50,059 Some of them are government 104 00:05:50,091 --> 00:05:53,823 But yeah, I think that's, 105 00:05:54,243 --> 00:05:56,779 So someone like Saylor 106 00:05:56,851 --> 00:06:01,483 If you're a bitcoiner who's 107 00:06:01,523 --> 00:06:06,123 two or three what you would 108 00:06:06,163 --> 00:06:09,831 X, then maybe two or three 109 00:06:09,967 --> 00:06:13,243 under followed considering the 110 00:06:14,223 --> 00:06:18,487 Yeah, I mean there's quite a 111 00:06:18,535 --> 00:06:21,975 magazine just being in the 112 00:06:22,039 --> 00:06:24,243 always right on top of the news. 113 00:06:27,343 --> 00:06:31,975 And then David Bailey with his 114 00:06:31,999 --> 00:06:35,415 of coordinated orange pilling 115 00:06:35,479 --> 00:06:36,083 follow. 116 00:06:38,943 --> 00:06:42,343 Yeah, I think I, I'd leave it 117 00:06:42,383 --> 00:06:47,843 There's but British Hodl has a 118 00:06:48,463 --> 00:06:52,855 So some people may or may not 119 00:06:52,879 --> 00:06:58,695 people comment pretty 120 00:06:58,719 --> 00:06:59,687 his takes are. 121 00:06:59,775 --> 00:07:04,547 So if you could find people 122 00:07:04,595 --> 00:07:08,419 I mean I was posting a few 123 00:07:08,451 --> 00:07:11,827 by December of this year and I 124 00:07:11,875 --> 00:07:13,155 and 500 comments. 125 00:07:13,259 --> 00:07:15,667 Most of the comments telling 126 00:07:15,755 --> 00:07:17,795 And then this morning the 127 00:07:17,819 --> 00:07:18,531 be right. 128 00:07:18,667 --> 00:07:22,419 So it's like no one's gonna be 129 00:07:22,451 --> 00:07:25,747 thoughtful and, and but, but 130 00:07:25,755 --> 00:07:30,333 little contrary, maybe not 131 00:07:31,033 --> 00:07:33,233 I personally think all those 132 00:07:33,353 --> 00:07:33,729 Yep. 133 00:07:33,761 --> 00:07:34,337 Yep. 134 00:07:34,465 --> 00:07:37,009 Now we have our final, what we 135 00:07:37,041 --> 00:07:37,281 question. 136 00:07:37,337 --> 00:07:37,873 And it's this. 137 00:07:37,913 --> 00:07:41,613 As a general life principle, 138 00:07:41,913 --> 00:07:48,897 I would say why because I'm at 139 00:07:48,905 --> 00:07:50,513 think that's more constructive. 140 00:07:50,673 --> 00:07:56,045 I think the education system 141 00:07:56,109 --> 00:07:57,821 spirit out of a lot of people. 142 00:07:57,957 --> 00:08:01,021 And not that that's for 143 00:08:01,077 --> 00:08:05,193 but you have a lot of smart 144 00:08:05,733 --> 00:08:09,245 They have the intelligence but 145 00:08:09,269 --> 00:08:16,045 motivation or hope or anything 146 00:08:16,069 --> 00:08:19,741 want to put on it to actually 147 00:08:19,757 --> 00:08:20,173 about. 148 00:08:20,293 --> 00:08:28,293 So I think asking why or more 149 00:08:28,333 --> 00:08:30,789 being afraid to fail because 150 00:08:30,861 --> 00:08:33,205 And I think that's what holds 151 00:08:33,229 --> 00:08:36,353 So I think why is a really 152 00:08:36,973 --> 00:08:40,741 Well, Tim, we're here today to 153 00:08:40,837 --> 00:08:42,437 when it comes to Bitcoin treasuries. 154 00:08:42,485 --> 00:08:46,485 Obviously, Saylor is the face 155 00:08:46,509 --> 00:08:49,334 past probably six months, 156 00:08:49,428 --> 00:08:52,002 as a voice and someone who's 157 00:08:52,042 --> 00:08:55,074 share about how they're 158 00:08:55,138 --> 00:08:56,962 into their operations. 159 00:08:57,122 --> 00:09:01,858 So if people don't know you, 160 00:09:01,890 --> 00:09:05,410 of people that are well aware 161 00:09:05,466 --> 00:09:09,330 podcast, Bitcoin Treasuries 162 00:09:09,386 --> 00:09:12,066 group, or just anything else 163 00:09:12,194 --> 00:09:16,274 But maybe for those who don't 164 00:09:16,298 --> 00:09:19,234 content yet, if you could just 165 00:09:19,258 --> 00:09:22,575 you are and maybe especially 166 00:09:22,599 --> 00:09:26,047 be from early 2021 till now, 167 00:09:26,135 --> 00:09:31,123 kind of how, how have, how's 168 00:09:32,503 --> 00:09:32,975 Yeah. 169 00:09:33,039 --> 00:09:38,879 So 2021 orange pill started 170 00:09:39,031 --> 00:09:41,631 consuming as much content as 171 00:09:41,687 --> 00:09:42,095 Really. 172 00:09:42,199 --> 00:09:45,791 I mean, when one of my friends 173 00:09:45,807 --> 00:09:47,279 to every single one of your podcasts. 174 00:09:47,311 --> 00:09:49,519 And Anthony's like, sorry you 175 00:09:49,591 --> 00:09:50,927 Right, Very funny. 176 00:09:50,975 --> 00:09:55,879 But it's like there wasn't, 177 00:09:55,911 --> 00:09:57,415 that were easily discoverable. 178 00:09:57,479 --> 00:10:01,203 Maybe there were, but not that 179 00:10:02,943 --> 00:10:09,287 So 2021 orange pilled 2022. 180 00:10:09,455 --> 00:10:14,455 My background is in the land 181 00:10:14,599 --> 00:10:18,199 So acquiring oil and gas 182 00:10:18,231 --> 00:10:22,599 area, Ohio, West Virginia, and 183 00:10:22,631 --> 00:10:23,763 and royalty rights. 184 00:10:25,423 --> 00:10:28,151 The legal definition actually 185 00:10:28,207 --> 00:10:28,535 you're in. 186 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:29,991 So that's why I say it kind of 187 00:10:30,047 --> 00:10:32,391 But buying it in those three states. 188 00:10:32,447 --> 00:10:32,663 Right. 189 00:10:32,703 --> 00:10:34,039 Natural gas kind of focused. 190 00:10:34,071 --> 00:10:38,583 And then down in West Texas 191 00:10:38,663 --> 00:10:42,727 oil weighted buying minerals 192 00:10:42,735 --> 00:10:43,159 of Dallas. 193 00:10:43,191 --> 00:10:48,153 Like that's my background from 194 00:10:48,193 --> 00:10:51,721 I was just like a contract 195 00:10:51,777 --> 00:10:54,169 kitchen table to kitchen 196 00:10:54,201 --> 00:10:55,373 leases for clients. 197 00:10:58,033 --> 00:11:00,521 I was living in Pittsburgh, 198 00:11:00,537 --> 00:11:06,825 up to New York and started 199 00:11:06,849 --> 00:11:07,609 exact same thing. 200 00:11:07,681 --> 00:11:08,873 I had been on the deal side. 201 00:11:08,913 --> 00:11:13,725 So then to be on the capital 202 00:11:13,749 --> 00:11:16,397 them cash flow and then exit 203 00:11:16,565 --> 00:11:19,581 And that's been a really great exercise. 204 00:11:19,677 --> 00:11:23,197 So I can kind of get in that 205 00:11:23,245 --> 00:11:27,389 of like, what is a private 206 00:11:27,541 --> 00:11:30,957 how do I deploy the capital 207 00:11:31,005 --> 00:11:34,433 reports, do interface with 208 00:11:35,173 --> 00:11:38,637 You know, right now I need to, 209 00:11:38,645 --> 00:11:41,813 the K1s out to the limited 210 00:11:41,916 --> 00:11:43,645 15th of every year. 211 00:11:43,829 --> 00:11:49,353 So, like just even just with a 212 00:11:49,393 --> 00:11:52,425 through those mechanics and 213 00:11:52,489 --> 00:11:57,337 and have a little bit of 214 00:11:57,385 --> 00:11:58,265 next step. 215 00:11:58,449 --> 00:12:02,333 And then one of the limited 216 00:12:02,833 --> 00:12:07,241 encouraged me to do a bitcoin 217 00:12:07,297 --> 00:12:11,733 So we did a close ended 218 00:12:11,773 --> 00:12:12,501 eight to 10 years. 219 00:12:12,557 --> 00:12:15,509 And we told people, you should 220 00:12:15,541 --> 00:12:16,261 on your own. 221 00:12:16,397 --> 00:12:19,365 But the value prop here is are 222 00:12:19,389 --> 00:12:21,553 eight to 10 years on your own? 223 00:12:22,813 --> 00:12:26,709 So yeah, I think the fund 224 00:12:26,821 --> 00:12:29,713 So obviously that's going to 225 00:12:32,253 --> 00:12:40,223 And so I got connected through 226 00:12:40,303 --> 00:12:45,327 here in New York in Midtown 227 00:12:45,495 --> 00:12:51,359 coincidentally was introduced 228 00:12:51,391 --> 00:12:54,015 of characters that are MSTR 229 00:12:54,199 --> 00:13:00,175 And so started doing 230 00:13:00,239 --> 00:13:01,503 and Ben Workman. 231 00:13:01,663 --> 00:13:07,105 And I think it was certainly 232 00:13:07,129 --> 00:13:10,593 also price action where like I 233 00:13:10,633 --> 00:13:12,673 thought, like the one I did 234 00:13:12,753 --> 00:13:16,785 I thought, I'll probably do 235 00:13:16,809 --> 00:13:17,649 No one's going to care. 236 00:13:17,721 --> 00:13:18,913 I'm going to move on with my life. 237 00:13:18,953 --> 00:13:21,457 Like, the plan was not to have 238 00:13:21,505 --> 00:13:23,681 So that's kind of ironic at 239 00:13:23,737 --> 00:13:29,289 But yeah, that was kind of the 240 00:13:29,401 --> 00:13:37,373 And then as I continued 241 00:13:37,873 --> 00:13:42,985 and talking with like bitcoin, 242 00:13:43,009 --> 00:13:45,737 I could work with, whether 243 00:13:45,785 --> 00:13:47,177 or both or whatever. 244 00:13:47,225 --> 00:13:49,977 And right, that whole journey 245 00:13:50,065 --> 00:13:54,985 Right, got connected with the 246 00:13:55,049 --> 00:14:01,013 And the president and owner of 247 00:14:02,633 --> 00:14:06,641 His wife is my girlfriend's 248 00:14:06,777 --> 00:14:10,785 So very funny to just kind of 249 00:14:10,809 --> 00:14:12,465 and see how we can work together. 250 00:14:12,649 --> 00:14:19,473 And now, kind of a wild 251 00:14:19,513 --> 00:14:24,465 podcast and other work that 252 00:14:24,489 --> 00:14:29,949 people in the US and 253 00:14:29,981 --> 00:14:31,325 the Bitcoin treasury guy. 254 00:14:31,389 --> 00:14:32,669 We want to do this for our company. 255 00:14:32,741 --> 00:14:33,949 How do we do it? 256 00:14:34,101 --> 00:14:38,381 And I'm like, being able to 257 00:14:38,477 --> 00:14:42,429 to help them is kind of a wild 258 00:14:42,621 --> 00:14:45,405 So you've just gotten back 259 00:14:45,429 --> 00:14:47,037 I'd love to hear a little bit 260 00:14:47,125 --> 00:14:51,325 Maybe what were some of the 261 00:14:51,429 --> 00:14:55,019 things that you feel like 262 00:14:55,051 --> 00:14:55,595 about as much. 263 00:14:55,619 --> 00:14:58,503 Like, was there anything there 264 00:14:59,043 --> 00:15:02,423 Yeah, just kind of some of 265 00:15:02,723 --> 00:15:03,531 Yeah. 266 00:15:03,707 --> 00:15:09,195 I think what is really unique 267 00:15:09,219 --> 00:15:12,475 someone has only been to a 268 00:15:12,499 --> 00:15:17,003 Where there's 5, 10, 15, 269 00:15:17,043 --> 00:15:20,705 general admission and sitting 270 00:15:20,729 --> 00:15:21,665 a rock concert. 271 00:15:21,729 --> 00:15:21,905 Right. 272 00:15:21,929 --> 00:15:24,881 And it's like, up on stage 273 00:15:24,977 --> 00:15:25,521 Right. 274 00:15:25,657 --> 00:15:29,585 But when you're in, like, 275 00:15:29,609 --> 00:15:30,321 in Santa Monica. 276 00:15:30,337 --> 00:15:31,425 It was like an unconference. 277 00:15:31,489 --> 00:15:34,145 So there's like, small groups 278 00:15:34,169 --> 00:15:36,241 there was a leader, but 279 00:15:36,297 --> 00:15:39,585 like, very intimate or even 280 00:15:39,609 --> 00:15:42,097 were a thousand people or less 281 00:15:42,185 --> 00:15:46,641 So like, when, you know, the 282 00:15:46,657 --> 00:15:50,493 of the conference, hey, when 283 00:15:50,533 --> 00:15:52,073 not attack them right away. 284 00:15:52,613 --> 00:15:56,285 Wait till they get to the back 285 00:15:56,469 --> 00:15:59,757 And if they need to leave, 286 00:15:59,885 --> 00:16:06,093 But most, if not all of the 287 00:16:06,133 --> 00:16:09,005 Friday, which is kind of the 288 00:16:09,029 --> 00:16:09,953 big names. 289 00:16:10,533 --> 00:16:12,029 I think it was funny. 290 00:16:12,061 --> 00:16:15,693 I was standing on the back 291 00:16:15,733 --> 00:16:17,869 people around her, is trying 292 00:16:17,901 --> 00:16:19,645 And a couple people got a 293 00:16:19,669 --> 00:16:20,219 But. 294 00:16:20,381 --> 00:16:25,439 But others, like Scaramucci 295 00:16:25,551 --> 00:16:28,723 take pictures and talk to you 296 00:16:29,143 --> 00:16:35,215 So just that sort of intimate 297 00:16:35,239 --> 00:16:35,471 Everyone. 298 00:16:35,527 --> 00:16:37,963 But it's something that I 299 00:16:38,423 --> 00:16:44,815 I'm just sitting in a random 300 00:16:44,839 --> 00:16:47,537 time Eric Semmler walks past 301 00:16:47,545 --> 00:16:47,953 going? 302 00:16:48,073 --> 00:16:48,353 Right? 303 00:16:48,393 --> 00:16:51,185 It's just like, I don't think 304 00:16:51,209 --> 00:16:54,641 can just, like, sit next to 305 00:16:54,697 --> 00:16:58,689 That you think was like, you 306 00:16:58,721 --> 00:17:02,657 the most well known next to 307 00:17:02,705 --> 00:17:03,665 So it's like, what? 308 00:17:03,769 --> 00:17:05,617 I could just, like, say hi to 309 00:17:05,745 --> 00:17:10,529 So I think that that aspect 310 00:17:10,561 --> 00:17:13,361 that, and I do, because from 311 00:17:13,377 --> 00:17:16,353 to El Salvador basically 312 00:17:16,393 --> 00:17:17,553 see if these are real people. 313 00:17:17,593 --> 00:17:20,605 And like, okay, I met Ma, Max, 314 00:17:20,749 --> 00:17:21,197 Right. 315 00:17:21,285 --> 00:17:22,077 I met Anthony. 316 00:17:22,125 --> 00:17:25,437 And it's like, YouTube videos 317 00:17:25,485 --> 00:17:29,037 build my confidence by, like, 318 00:17:29,205 --> 00:17:30,605 So, I mean, the insights. 319 00:17:30,669 --> 00:17:34,221 I had a gentleman come up to 320 00:17:34,277 --> 00:17:35,533 I want to introduce myself. 321 00:17:35,613 --> 00:17:36,541 I'm a private company. 322 00:17:36,597 --> 00:17:38,845 We're going to flip public and 323 00:17:38,909 --> 00:17:40,237 And I'm like, oh, okay. 324 00:17:40,285 --> 00:17:44,989 Like, this is happening and 325 00:17:45,061 --> 00:17:51,245 But I think that's probably 326 00:17:51,349 --> 00:17:55,533 and public companies looking 327 00:17:55,693 --> 00:18:03,313 And then a lot of lending 328 00:18:03,893 --> 00:18:08,141 partnered with Onramp, and 329 00:18:08,237 --> 00:18:12,701 all of these companies that 330 00:18:12,797 --> 00:18:17,439 Even I don't know the details, 331 00:18:17,471 --> 00:18:22,111 Fitzgerald is going to come 332 00:18:22,207 --> 00:18:26,399 So I think that could be a 333 00:18:26,431 --> 00:18:29,823 If people don't need to sell 334 00:18:29,903 --> 00:18:33,743 or more reasonable loan 335 00:18:33,783 --> 00:18:37,823 than maybe in the past with 336 00:18:37,863 --> 00:18:39,535 credible than ones in the past. 337 00:18:39,719 --> 00:18:41,375 That's all very, very encouraging. 338 00:18:41,439 --> 00:18:42,319 So, yeah. 339 00:18:42,511 --> 00:18:45,519 So when it comes to the CEOs 340 00:18:45,551 --> 00:18:50,287 to or either currently or 341 00:18:50,335 --> 00:18:53,951 asset, what, How. 342 00:18:54,087 --> 00:19:02,191 How closely do they follow 343 00:19:02,247 --> 00:19:05,007 unique things that they bring 344 00:19:05,055 --> 00:19:08,335 Like, is it all just basically 345 00:19:08,399 --> 00:19:10,623 doing that as much as 346 00:19:10,663 --> 00:19:11,443 approaches? 347 00:19:12,253 --> 00:19:16,645 I think it depends on how 348 00:19:16,669 --> 00:19:21,509 capital markets, if it's just 349 00:19:21,581 --> 00:19:26,149 less than 100% of their cash 350 00:19:26,181 --> 00:19:28,325 kind of okay, we're just going 351 00:19:28,469 --> 00:19:32,261 But to the extent that they 352 00:19:32,317 --> 00:19:36,651 markets and do the whole 353 00:19:36,797 --> 00:19:42,335 then I think it's, you know, 354 00:19:42,479 --> 00:19:44,735 at the moment that's really at 355 00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:46,127 And so that's where. 356 00:19:46,295 --> 00:19:51,455 Yeah, I think for good reason, 357 00:19:51,519 --> 00:19:53,167 now strategy playbook. 358 00:19:53,295 --> 00:19:56,063 And yes, I think it just 359 00:19:56,103 --> 00:19:56,799 Like, are they. 360 00:19:56,871 --> 00:20:01,519 Is it a small, is it an 361 00:20:01,551 --> 00:20:04,825 long or at least in that 362 00:20:04,849 --> 00:20:09,017 what, to what extent they're 363 00:20:09,065 --> 00:20:10,249 Yeah, yeah. 364 00:20:10,361 --> 00:20:13,161 And what is the future for 365 00:20:13,297 --> 00:20:14,969 It seems like they don't have 366 00:20:15,001 --> 00:20:19,273 Is it simply just adding it as 367 00:20:19,393 --> 00:20:22,793 they can, or are there other 368 00:20:22,833 --> 00:20:25,413 private companies have easy 369 00:20:26,833 --> 00:20:32,383 Yeah, I think the, I think 370 00:20:32,923 --> 00:20:37,619 I think the only lever as you 371 00:20:37,771 --> 00:20:41,651 might be traditional debt, 372 00:20:41,787 --> 00:20:44,019 All of these are individual 373 00:20:44,051 --> 00:20:50,115 But especially we kind of saw 374 00:20:50,179 --> 00:20:52,023 and then taking traditional loans. 375 00:20:52,363 --> 00:20:57,785 And of course this was under 376 00:20:57,809 --> 00:20:59,705 price action wasn't wonderful. 377 00:20:59,849 --> 00:21:02,233 So we might be in a whole new 378 00:21:02,353 --> 00:21:08,665 But maybe private companies 379 00:21:08,729 --> 00:21:13,385 but hopefully very 380 00:21:13,489 --> 00:21:18,013 that might not be the most, 381 00:21:19,233 --> 00:21:21,705 I think a lot of bitcoiners 382 00:21:21,729 --> 00:21:26,619 right now that they never 383 00:21:26,651 --> 00:21:29,995 in public companies a whole 384 00:21:30,059 --> 00:21:30,555 thought they would. 385 00:21:30,579 --> 00:21:32,651 You know, it's like Bitcoin 386 00:21:32,667 --> 00:21:37,423 looking at strategy similar 387 00:21:38,003 --> 00:21:41,851 Do you have a way that you 388 00:21:41,907 --> 00:21:46,875 two or maybe just some, some 389 00:21:46,899 --> 00:21:48,379 do you kind of have your hodl stack? 390 00:21:48,411 --> 00:21:52,523 And then MSTR and others are 391 00:21:52,563 --> 00:21:57,745 Do you look to rebalance or 392 00:21:57,889 --> 00:22:00,413 could be helpful to other 393 00:22:00,873 --> 00:22:03,889 do I want to just stay bitcoin 394 00:22:03,921 --> 00:22:04,753 and Secure. 395 00:22:04,913 --> 00:22:09,217 And the thing that's least 396 00:22:09,265 --> 00:22:11,933 like that or are you just kind 397 00:22:13,833 --> 00:22:17,425 So unfortunately, in life, a 398 00:22:17,449 --> 00:22:18,353 trial and error. 399 00:22:18,433 --> 00:22:20,833 But to your point, yes, absolutely. 400 00:22:20,913 --> 00:22:25,417 That's what I appreciate about 401 00:22:25,425 --> 00:22:29,577 the episodes, or at least 402 00:22:29,625 --> 00:22:34,937 said, look, we own bitcoin and 403 00:22:34,985 --> 00:22:43,881 Now, strategy, that's super 404 00:22:43,977 --> 00:22:46,073 and not credibility. 405 00:22:46,153 --> 00:22:49,013 But yes, bitcoin is our 406 00:22:49,463 --> 00:22:52,319 And I mean, I was just on the 407 00:22:52,351 --> 00:22:55,855 and I said, yeah, when it was 408 00:22:55,879 --> 00:22:56,943 is amazing. 409 00:22:57,023 --> 00:23:02,063 I'm just taking a certain 410 00:23:02,103 --> 00:23:04,943 the table from those positions 411 00:23:04,983 --> 00:23:05,583 my savings account. 412 00:23:05,623 --> 00:23:07,403 That's what I was individually doing. 413 00:23:09,703 --> 00:23:15,081 But, yeah, I mean, I don't 414 00:23:15,137 --> 00:23:19,545 should do their research and 415 00:23:19,609 --> 00:23:23,129 is something that you can't f with. 416 00:23:23,201 --> 00:23:24,969 It's something that's immutable. 417 00:23:25,081 --> 00:23:26,761 It doesn't have a management team. 418 00:23:26,897 --> 00:23:33,093 Any public equity, no matter 419 00:23:33,633 --> 00:23:36,473 is susceptible to the world. 420 00:23:36,593 --> 00:23:41,161 I mean, anybody can be accused 421 00:23:41,297 --> 00:23:44,625 Whether or not they did 422 00:23:44,649 --> 00:23:45,393 wrong decision. 423 00:23:45,513 --> 00:23:50,081 I mean, so you have that 424 00:23:50,257 --> 00:23:51,777 let alone a private company. 425 00:23:51,865 --> 00:23:52,161 Right. 426 00:23:52,217 --> 00:23:53,633 It's like we're all human. 427 00:23:53,753 --> 00:23:58,673 So for me, I'm like, I just 428 00:23:58,753 --> 00:23:59,857 I'm not perfect. 429 00:23:59,985 --> 00:24:03,425 So if you want your perfect 430 00:24:03,569 --> 00:24:06,353 If you want to go further out 431 00:24:06,393 --> 00:24:11,795 research and then allocate to 432 00:24:11,859 --> 00:24:17,011 equity to just really be 433 00:24:17,107 --> 00:24:24,259 Because I think I'm as guilty 434 00:24:24,291 --> 00:24:29,715 but we're all very 435 00:24:29,739 --> 00:24:32,019 we're doing and the 436 00:24:32,091 --> 00:24:35,663 the potential upside from all 437 00:24:36,213 --> 00:24:40,893 And I'll also just take the 438 00:24:40,933 --> 00:24:43,645 conversation yesterday, I just 439 00:24:43,669 --> 00:24:46,157 it's like we're all on a journey. 440 00:24:46,205 --> 00:24:47,405 We're all going to make mistakes. 441 00:24:47,469 --> 00:24:48,557 But think about it. 442 00:24:48,645 --> 00:24:54,429 How many people, starting from 443 00:24:54,541 --> 00:24:58,061 in any way, shape or form, 444 00:24:58,157 --> 00:25:02,571 And then layer on top of that, 445 00:25:02,627 --> 00:25:07,195 on top of that, bitcoin equity 446 00:25:07,219 --> 00:25:10,283 You're so far out the risk 447 00:25:10,323 --> 00:25:15,755 make 10, 20x on your money, 448 00:25:15,779 --> 00:25:20,303 you're not familiar with it, 449 00:25:20,803 --> 00:25:25,067 How do you learn something new 450 00:25:25,115 --> 00:25:26,267 trading account, right? 451 00:25:26,355 --> 00:25:28,251 Like a mock trading account 452 00:25:28,307 --> 00:25:34,757 So yeah, I think it's, it's 453 00:25:34,805 --> 00:25:40,469 standpoint, right, it's like I 454 00:25:40,541 --> 00:25:46,293 as long as I'm doing it with a 455 00:25:46,373 --> 00:25:46,933 something, right? 456 00:25:46,973 --> 00:25:49,909 I'm not round tripping 457 00:25:49,941 --> 00:25:50,501 it again. 458 00:25:50,637 --> 00:25:54,533 That's not what you're 459 00:25:54,613 --> 00:25:55,621 or anything else. 460 00:25:55,717 --> 00:25:59,185 Just hold it maybe, you know, don't. 461 00:25:59,329 --> 00:26:00,933 Unless like if you're. 462 00:26:01,273 --> 00:26:04,177 Sailor has said this for years 463 00:26:04,225 --> 00:26:08,177 a good trader, you know you're 464 00:26:08,185 --> 00:26:11,825 that you're a good trader, 465 00:26:11,849 --> 00:26:14,401 Bitcoin and forget about it, right? 466 00:26:14,537 --> 00:26:20,293 So I think that, yeah, we can 467 00:26:20,713 --> 00:26:23,805 be in a good or better spot 468 00:26:23,929 --> 00:26:25,925 It's one of those things that 469 00:26:25,949 --> 00:26:26,513 much. 470 00:26:26,973 --> 00:26:30,421 I happen to have a little bit 471 00:26:30,517 --> 00:26:37,753 in April or May of last year, 472 00:26:39,133 --> 00:26:40,673 purchased some more in the fall. 473 00:26:40,973 --> 00:26:42,901 But it isn't anything major. 474 00:26:42,957 --> 00:26:44,805 But I think it's just really 475 00:26:44,829 --> 00:26:48,837 of people probably came late 476 00:26:48,845 --> 00:26:51,735 maybe even a little bit later 477 00:26:51,799 --> 00:26:55,527 in the fall and it's just, 478 00:26:55,655 --> 00:26:58,823 almost no doubt just so much 479 00:26:58,903 --> 00:27:00,791 But like you said, anything 480 00:27:00,847 --> 00:27:04,247 I mean like, yeah, so it's, 481 00:27:04,255 --> 00:27:06,951 about and I appreciate you 482 00:27:06,967 --> 00:27:09,447 Now another thing that you 483 00:27:09,495 --> 00:27:11,063 on, I haven't seen it yet. 484 00:27:11,103 --> 00:27:13,143 You said X is blowing up this morning. 485 00:27:13,263 --> 00:27:15,879 Apparently Howard Lutnick has 486 00:27:15,911 --> 00:27:18,083 strategic reserve happening 487 00:27:18,453 --> 00:27:22,553 So right now we're recording 488 00:27:23,013 --> 00:27:26,509 By Friday this could have all 489 00:27:26,541 --> 00:27:29,181 Burger or, you know, we could 490 00:27:29,197 --> 00:27:30,557 talking right now, don't know much. 491 00:27:30,645 --> 00:27:33,773 What do you know so far and 492 00:27:33,813 --> 00:27:35,997 have unrolled since maybe last week? 493 00:27:36,085 --> 00:27:39,133 And then what are your 494 00:27:39,173 --> 00:27:40,073 moving forward? 495 00:27:40,613 --> 00:27:45,149 Yeah, I mean, I think we'd all 496 00:27:45,181 --> 00:27:48,407 like the headline of the day, 497 00:27:48,495 --> 00:27:52,391 So I woke up this morning and 498 00:27:52,447 --> 00:27:58,135 X saying, hey, Lutnick said 499 00:27:58,159 --> 00:28:03,047 to talk about the bitcoin 500 00:28:03,215 --> 00:28:03,639 Right. 501 00:28:03,711 --> 00:28:04,887 Saylor is invited. 502 00:28:05,015 --> 00:28:08,743 Some other executives that 503 00:28:08,783 --> 00:28:09,483 invited. 504 00:28:09,823 --> 00:28:10,563 So. 505 00:28:11,583 --> 00:28:15,287 And then you look at the price 506 00:28:15,335 --> 00:28:15,735 ship. 507 00:28:15,799 --> 00:28:21,159 I mean, still below 100,000, 508 00:28:21,191 --> 00:28:22,243 to the 90,000. 509 00:28:25,103 --> 00:28:30,711 And Lutnick said somewhere in 510 00:28:30,887 --> 00:28:33,831 or coins will be treated differently. 511 00:28:34,007 --> 00:28:36,039 Positively, but differently. 512 00:28:36,151 --> 00:28:37,923 So what does that all mean? 513 00:28:38,533 --> 00:28:43,309 I don't know that any of us 514 00:28:43,341 --> 00:28:46,045 that there's a couple 515 00:28:46,069 --> 00:28:49,673 buckets analogy that you could 516 00:28:50,133 --> 00:28:53,565 They could technically, 517 00:28:53,589 --> 00:28:57,661 the Exchange Stabilization 518 00:28:57,677 --> 00:29:01,645 of Bitcoin and just say, like, 519 00:29:01,709 --> 00:29:03,133 hundred thousand bitcoin here. 520 00:29:03,253 --> 00:29:04,553 We already bought it. 521 00:29:05,693 --> 00:29:07,593 Maybe that'll happen, maybe it won't. 522 00:29:07,933 --> 00:29:13,349 And then something could go 523 00:29:13,541 --> 00:29:17,493 law for the bitcoin strategic 524 00:29:17,533 --> 00:29:19,589 And whether that's just 525 00:29:19,621 --> 00:29:22,613 to it, you would think you 526 00:29:22,693 --> 00:29:26,981 And then you have the 527 00:29:27,037 --> 00:29:30,613 you listen carefully to 528 00:29:30,733 --> 00:29:34,711 this week on cnbc, basically 529 00:29:34,727 --> 00:29:35,303 opinion, right? 530 00:29:35,343 --> 00:29:39,623 But he said he feels like the 531 00:29:39,703 --> 00:29:44,643 and the sovereign wealth fund 532 00:29:45,103 --> 00:29:49,159 So if I had to take a guess, 533 00:29:49,191 --> 00:29:49,575 going. 534 00:29:49,679 --> 00:29:55,255 But again, unless there's some 535 00:29:55,319 --> 00:29:59,623 bitcoin and then announcing it 536 00:29:59,703 --> 00:30:03,043 kind of gets their arms around 537 00:30:04,143 --> 00:30:07,623 Yeah, I mean, if they announce 538 00:30:07,663 --> 00:30:13,511 Congress, no tax on bitcoin, 539 00:30:13,567 --> 00:30:15,843 media, if you hold it for more 540 00:30:16,543 --> 00:30:19,031 That would obviously be huge. 541 00:30:19,207 --> 00:30:23,687 But until something actually 542 00:30:23,855 --> 00:30:28,445 how much the market's really 543 00:30:28,469 --> 00:30:29,389 sustainable way. 544 00:30:29,461 --> 00:30:34,973 But yeah, like I've posted a 545 00:30:35,133 --> 00:30:39,021 or hilarious outcome might be 546 00:30:39,117 --> 00:30:43,133 So like think about who's at 547 00:30:43,173 --> 00:30:44,429 government perspective. 548 00:30:44,541 --> 00:30:48,877 Trump and Elon like the meme 549 00:30:49,005 --> 00:30:54,189 Like so I think anything's 550 00:30:54,261 --> 00:30:56,353 like a couple of the most 551 00:30:57,223 --> 00:31:01,327 Yeah, the no cap gains would 552 00:31:01,495 --> 00:31:04,623 I've also seen people talking 553 00:31:04,663 --> 00:31:07,583 pressure initially just 554 00:31:07,623 --> 00:31:10,911 term holders can get rid of 555 00:31:10,927 --> 00:31:14,031 been holding since 2013 and 556 00:31:14,127 --> 00:31:16,287 I can see that happening at 557 00:31:16,295 --> 00:31:19,043 that would just be so beneficial. 558 00:31:21,063 --> 00:31:21,903 Let me ask you this. 559 00:31:21,943 --> 00:31:24,815 If you right now were in the 560 00:31:24,839 --> 00:31:27,511 do what's best, best what, 561 00:31:27,567 --> 00:31:30,215 States and what you think is 562 00:31:30,239 --> 00:31:32,039 would you handle the strategic reserve? 563 00:31:32,071 --> 00:31:34,935 I mean I know there's, there's 564 00:31:34,959 --> 00:31:39,575 could, if you could kind of 565 00:31:39,599 --> 00:31:40,963 mind, what would that look like? 566 00:31:44,783 --> 00:31:48,071 I mean I personally would be 567 00:31:48,167 --> 00:31:54,943 I would deploy that 40 billion 568 00:31:56,043 --> 00:31:58,499 pre announcement and say hey 569 00:31:58,571 --> 00:32:02,835 We have whatever that math is, 570 00:32:02,859 --> 00:32:04,883 addition to what hopefully the 571 00:32:04,923 --> 00:32:08,463 The US Government, hopefully 572 00:32:09,003 --> 00:32:12,179 And I mean that alone between 573 00:32:12,251 --> 00:32:13,651 100, 200,000. 574 00:32:13,787 --> 00:32:14,979 I don't have exact numbers. 575 00:32:15,011 --> 00:32:19,123 And then you have, you bought 576 00:32:19,163 --> 00:32:19,507 billion. 577 00:32:19,595 --> 00:32:24,083 I mean that could be almost 578 00:32:24,163 --> 00:32:30,915 And then with that sort of 579 00:32:31,019 --> 00:32:35,303 level, hopefully have the buy 580 00:32:36,203 --> 00:32:40,115 But as soon as you make that 581 00:32:40,299 --> 00:32:45,907 position, that's more than 582 00:32:45,995 --> 00:32:49,445 You're going to have that game 583 00:32:49,469 --> 00:32:52,513 the US dollar, I don't know 584 00:32:53,453 --> 00:32:59,493 I would hope that they're more 585 00:32:59,573 --> 00:33:04,085 national security interest 586 00:33:04,109 --> 00:33:06,613 it's like well we have the US 587 00:33:06,653 --> 00:33:09,797 price and then hold it. 588 00:33:09,885 --> 00:33:16,361 So yeah, that would be my kind 589 00:33:16,417 --> 00:33:18,293 which I'm not sure. 590 00:35:25,247 --> 00:35:30,507 So you think 1 million is 591 00:35:30,662 --> 00:35:31,285 31. 592 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,239 2025, $1 million Bitcoin, and 593 00:35:35,263 --> 00:35:35,975 2026. 594 00:35:36,031 --> 00:35:39,895 So yeah, that's what I've said 595 00:35:39,911 --> 00:35:40,627 with it. 596 00:35:41,567 --> 00:35:42,823 No cycle theory anymore. 597 00:35:42,855 --> 00:35:44,551 We're just going to kind of 598 00:35:44,559 --> 00:35:45,543 to be that perpetual bid. 599 00:35:45,575 --> 00:35:47,509 And that's what keeps the 600 00:35:47,663 --> 00:35:49,209 Yeah, I think so. 601 00:35:49,393 --> 00:35:51,369 That's very bullish. 602 00:35:51,513 --> 00:35:53,129 Any final thoughts before we 603 00:35:53,153 --> 00:35:55,609 Tim, I appreciate you sharing 604 00:35:55,673 --> 00:35:58,121 Obviously want people to check 605 00:35:58,169 --> 00:36:01,913 but where'd you like people to 606 00:36:01,945 --> 00:36:04,041 from you if they've enjoyed 607 00:36:04,209 --> 00:36:10,713 Yeah, Im Kotsman on X and 608 00:36:10,745 --> 00:36:14,601 podcast, as you mentioned, the 609 00:36:14,729 --> 00:36:21,367 Punter Jeff streams that from 610 00:36:21,407 --> 00:36:22,951 Wednesday evening. 611 00:36:23,079 --> 00:36:29,463 And yeah, there's a couple 612 00:36:29,495 --> 00:36:36,231 be coming out soon that will 613 00:36:36,279 --> 00:36:37,271 sort of platforms. 614 00:36:37,319 --> 00:36:42,916 So I think stay tuned and 615 00:36:42,956 --> 00:36:44,436 on this journey with everybody. 616 00:36:44,596 --> 00:36:45,012 Awesome. 617 00:36:45,044 --> 00:36:46,468 Well, Tim, thank you so much 618 00:36:46,492 --> 00:36:47,428 It's been a pleasure. 619 00:36:47,572 --> 00:36:48,404 Thank you. 620 00:36:48,540 --> 00:36:49,572 Well friends, it's a wrap. 621 00:36:49,604 --> 00:36:52,964 Thanks so much for listening 622 00:36:53,060 --> 00:36:53,460 Show. 623 00:36:53,548 --> 00:36:55,876 If you want to reach out to 624 00:36:55,916 --> 00:36:57,524 links down in the show notes. 625 00:36:57,620 --> 00:37:01,156 And be sure to check out Tim's 626 00:37:01,236 --> 00:37:04,836 As always, keep building, keep 627 00:37:04,876 --> 00:37:06,724 living and leading. 628 00:37:06,820 --> 00:37:06,956 Well.