How many people?
Starting from like the base,
any way, shape or form, and
bitcoin equities, and then on
Right?
You're like, so far out the
can make 10, 20x on your
And if you're not familiar
I think we'd all agree this
headline of the day, if not
this morning and there's like
Lutnick said basically that
the bitcoin strategic reserve
Sailors invited some other
bitcoin, are not invited.
They could technically,
the Exchange Stabilization
of Bitcoin and just say, like,
hundred thousand Bitcoin here.
We, we already bought it.
Until something actually gets
market's really going to
way.
If you right now were in the
do what you think is best for
is best for the American
strategic reserve?
Welcome to the Business
to helping you enrich your
bitcoin, the hardest money on
I'm your host, Josh Friedman,
who you may recognize from
or MSTR True North.
Today on the show, we're going
are beginning to adopt Bitcoin
We're also going to be talking
Week in New York City and the
We're going to get to our
Tim, welcome to the podcast.
Thanks for having me.
So I like to start off every
that help us to get to know
us some insight for our own lives.
Are you ready for these?
I'm ready.
Question number one is this.
When and how did you first
I first learned about bitcoin
One of my limited partner
friend Invited me to a zoom
of his experience with bitcoin
his net worth in early 2017.
And that personal story really
to go down the rabbit hole.
Question number two.
What's an insight or fact
understood the scarcity of bitcoin?
Because I don't think we even
I think we're going to see
of it as we get into the next
Question 3.
What's the Bitcoin resource
people?
Any YouTube video that someone
for them.
Because everyone learns in so
people or personalities might
with.
The best workout to do is the
The best YouTube video on
you'll actually watch that
Now, it was your friend that
or at least helped to grab
So I'm wondering, what types
most helpful in your early
Really back then there were so
for me, Robert Breedlove,
I mean, the whole get to one
kind of like, that was
You know, one bitcoin and beyond.
But yeah, those were kind of
I would, I would say question
Beyond bitcoin, what's a
helpful to you or your work recently?
I'd say following certain
have alpha on social media and
they're commenting on and what
Because there's so much noise.
Like, back to the YouTube videos.
I mean, when I was carefully
many, four years ago, they
the dark at a YouTube video.
And you put bitcoin in the
these to the moon meme, coin,
even find this information?
So, yeah, really through trial
And also someone has alpha.
Seeing what other accounts do
Some of the top accounts, like
600 people.
So you could wouldn't take
entire list and not
Some of them are government
But yeah, I think that's,
So someone like Saylor
If you're a bitcoiner who's
two or three what you would
X, then maybe two or three
under followed considering the
Yeah, I mean there's quite a
magazine just being in the
always right on top of the news.
And then David Bailey with his
of coordinated orange pilling
follow.
Yeah, I think I, I'd leave it
There's but British Hodl has a
So some people may or may not
people comment pretty
his takes are.
So if you could find people
I mean I was posting a few
by December of this year and I
and 500 comments.
Most of the comments telling
And then this morning the
be right.
So it's like no one's gonna be
thoughtful and, and but, but
little contrary, maybe not
I personally think all those
Yep.
Now we have our final, what we
question.
And it's this.
As a general life principle,
I would say why because I'm at
think that's more constructive.
I think the education system
spirit out of a lot of people.
And not that that's for
but you have a lot of smart
They have the intelligence but
motivation or hope or anything
want to put on it to actually
about.
So I think asking why or more
being afraid to fail because
And I think that's what holds
So I think why is a really
Well, Tim, we're here today to
when it comes to Bitcoin treasuries.
Obviously, Saylor is the face
past probably six months,
as a voice and someone who's
share about how they're
into their operations.
So if people don't know you,
of people that are well aware
podcast, Bitcoin Treasuries
group, or just anything else
But maybe for those who don't
content yet, if you could just
you are and maybe especially
be from early 2021 till now,
kind of how, how have, how's
Yeah.
So 2021 orange pill started
consuming as much content as
Really.
I mean, when one of my friends
to every single one of your podcasts.
And Anthony's like, sorry you
Right, Very funny.
But it's like there wasn't,
that were easily discoverable.
Maybe there were, but not that
So 2021 orange pilled 2022.
My background is in the land
So acquiring oil and gas
area, Ohio, West Virginia, and
and royalty rights.
The legal definition actually
you're in.
So that's why I say it kind of
But buying it in those three states.
Right.
Natural gas kind of focused.
And then down in West Texas
oil weighted buying minerals
of Dallas.
Like that's my background from
I was just like a contract
kitchen table to kitchen
leases for clients.
I was living in Pittsburgh,
up to New York and started
exact same thing.
I had been on the deal side.
So then to be on the capital
them cash flow and then exit
And that's been a really great exercise.
So I can kind of get in that
of like, what is a private
how do I deploy the capital
reports, do interface with
You know, right now I need to,
the K1s out to the limited
15th of every year.
So, like just even just with a
through those mechanics and
and have a little bit of
next step.
And then one of the limited
encouraged me to do a bitcoin
So we did a close ended
eight to 10 years.
And we told people, you should
on your own.
But the value prop here is are
eight to 10 years on your own?
So yeah, I think the fund
So obviously that's going to
And so I got connected through
here in New York in Midtown
coincidentally was introduced
of characters that are MSTR
And so started doing
and Ben Workman.
And I think it was certainly
also price action where like I
thought, like the one I did
I thought, I'll probably do
No one's going to care.
I'm going to move on with my life.
Like, the plan was not to have
So that's kind of ironic at
But yeah, that was kind of the
And then as I continued
and talking with like bitcoin,
I could work with, whether
or both or whatever.
And right, that whole journey
Right, got connected with the
And the president and owner of
His wife is my girlfriend's
So very funny to just kind of
and see how we can work together.
And now, kind of a wild
podcast and other work that
people in the US and
the Bitcoin treasury guy.
We want to do this for our company.
How do we do it?
And I'm like, being able to
to help them is kind of a wild
So you've just gotten back
I'd love to hear a little bit
Maybe what were some of the
things that you feel like
about as much.
Like, was there anything there
Yeah, just kind of some of
Yeah.
I think what is really unique
someone has only been to a
Where there's 5, 10, 15,
general admission and sitting
a rock concert.
Right.
And it's like, up on stage
Right.
But when you're in, like,
in Santa Monica.
It was like an unconference.
So there's like, small groups
there was a leader, but
like, very intimate or even
were a thousand people or less
So like, when, you know, the
of the conference, hey, when
not attack them right away.
Wait till they get to the back
And if they need to leave,
But most, if not all of the
Friday, which is kind of the
big names.
I think it was funny.
I was standing on the back
people around her, is trying
And a couple people got a
But.
But others, like Scaramucci
take pictures and talk to you
So just that sort of intimate
Everyone.
But it's something that I
I'm just sitting in a random
time Eric Semmler walks past
going?
Right?
It's just like, I don't think
can just, like, sit next to
That you think was like, you
the most well known next to
So it's like, what?
I could just, like, say hi to
So I think that that aspect
that, and I do, because from
to El Salvador basically
see if these are real people.
And like, okay, I met Ma, Max,
Right.
I met Anthony.
And it's like, YouTube videos
build my confidence by, like,
So, I mean, the insights.
I had a gentleman come up to
I want to introduce myself.
I'm a private company.
We're going to flip public and
And I'm like, oh, okay.
Like, this is happening and
But I think that's probably
and public companies looking
And then a lot of lending
partnered with Onramp, and
all of these companies that
Even I don't know the details,
Fitzgerald is going to come
So I think that could be a
If people don't need to sell
or more reasonable loan
than maybe in the past with
credible than ones in the past.
That's all very, very encouraging.
So, yeah.
So when it comes to the CEOs
to or either currently or
asset, what, How.
How closely do they follow
unique things that they bring
Like, is it all just basically
doing that as much as
approaches?
I think it depends on how
capital markets, if it's just
less than 100% of their cash
kind of okay, we're just going
But to the extent that they
markets and do the whole
then I think it's, you know,
at the moment that's really at
And so that's where.
Yeah, I think for good reason,
now strategy playbook.
And yes, I think it just
Like, are they.
Is it a small, is it an
long or at least in that
what, to what extent they're
Yeah, yeah.
And what is the future for
It seems like they don't have
Is it simply just adding it as
they can, or are there other
private companies have easy
Yeah, I think the, I think
I think the only lever as you
might be traditional debt,
All of these are individual
But especially we kind of saw
and then taking traditional loans.
And of course this was under
price action wasn't wonderful.
So we might be in a whole new
But maybe private companies
but hopefully very
that might not be the most,
I think a lot of bitcoiners
right now that they never
in public companies a whole
thought they would.
You know, it's like Bitcoin
looking at strategy similar
Do you have a way that you
two or maybe just some, some
do you kind of have your hodl stack?
And then MSTR and others are
Do you look to rebalance or
could be helpful to other
do I want to just stay bitcoin
and Secure.
And the thing that's least
like that or are you just kind
So unfortunately, in life, a
trial and error.
But to your point, yes, absolutely.
That's what I appreciate about
the episodes, or at least
said, look, we own bitcoin and
Now, strategy, that's super
and not credibility.
But yes, bitcoin is our
And I mean, I was just on the
and I said, yeah, when it was
is amazing.
I'm just taking a certain
the table from those positions
my savings account.
That's what I was individually doing.
But, yeah, I mean, I don't
should do their research and
is something that you can't f with.
It's something that's immutable.
It doesn't have a management team.
Any public equity, no matter
is susceptible to the world.
I mean, anybody can be accused
Whether or not they did
wrong decision.
I mean, so you have that
let alone a private company.
Right.
It's like we're all human.
So for me, I'm like, I just
I'm not perfect.
So if you want your perfect
If you want to go further out
research and then allocate to
equity to just really be
Because I think I'm as guilty
but we're all very
we're doing and the
the potential upside from all
And I'll also just take the
conversation yesterday, I just
it's like we're all on a journey.
We're all going to make mistakes.
But think about it.
How many people, starting from
in any way, shape or form,
And then layer on top of that,
on top of that, bitcoin equity
You're so far out the risk
make 10, 20x on your money,
you're not familiar with it,
How do you learn something new
trading account, right?
Like a mock trading account
So yeah, I think it's, it's
standpoint, right, it's like I
as long as I'm doing it with a
something, right?
I'm not round tripping
it again.
That's not what you're
or anything else.
Just hold it maybe, you know, don't.
Unless like if you're.
Sailor has said this for years
a good trader, you know you're
that you're a good trader,
Bitcoin and forget about it, right?
So I think that, yeah, we can
be in a good or better spot
It's one of those things that
much.
I happen to have a little bit
in April or May of last year,
purchased some more in the fall.
But it isn't anything major.
But I think it's just really
of people probably came late
maybe even a little bit later
in the fall and it's just,
almost no doubt just so much
But like you said, anything
I mean like, yeah, so it's,
about and I appreciate you
Now another thing that you
on, I haven't seen it yet.
You said X is blowing up this morning.
Apparently Howard Lutnick has
strategic reserve happening
So right now we're recording
By Friday this could have all
Burger or, you know, we could
talking right now, don't know much.
What do you know so far and
have unrolled since maybe last week?
And then what are your
moving forward?
Yeah, I mean, I think we'd all
like the headline of the day,
So I woke up this morning and
X saying, hey, Lutnick said
to talk about the bitcoin
Right.
Saylor is invited.
Some other executives that
invited.
So.
And then you look at the price
ship.
I mean, still below 100,000,
to the 90,000.
And Lutnick said somewhere in
or coins will be treated differently.
Positively, but differently.
So what does that all mean?
I don't know that any of us
that there's a couple
buckets analogy that you could
They could technically,
the Exchange Stabilization
of Bitcoin and just say, like,
hundred thousand bitcoin here.
We already bought it.
Maybe that'll happen, maybe it won't.
And then something could go
law for the bitcoin strategic
And whether that's just
to it, you would think you
And then you have the
you listen carefully to
this week on cnbc, basically
opinion, right?
But he said he feels like the
and the sovereign wealth fund
So if I had to take a guess,
going.
But again, unless there's some
bitcoin and then announcing it
kind of gets their arms around
Yeah, I mean, if they announce
Congress, no tax on bitcoin,
media, if you hold it for more
That would obviously be huge.
But until something actually
how much the market's really
sustainable way.
But yeah, like I've posted a
or hilarious outcome might be
So like think about who's at
government perspective.
Trump and Elon like the meme
Like so I think anything's
like a couple of the most
Yeah, the no cap gains would
I've also seen people talking
pressure initially just
term holders can get rid of
been holding since 2013 and
I can see that happening at
that would just be so beneficial.
Let me ask you this.
If you right now were in the
do what's best, best what,
States and what you think is
would you handle the strategic reserve?
I mean I know there's, there's
could, if you could kind of
mind, what would that look like?
I mean I personally would be
I would deploy that 40 billion
pre announcement and say hey
We have whatever that math is,
addition to what hopefully the
The US Government, hopefully
And I mean that alone between
100, 200,000.
I don't have exact numbers.
And then you have, you bought
billion.
I mean that could be almost
And then with that sort of
level, hopefully have the buy
But as soon as you make that
position, that's more than
You're going to have that game
the US dollar, I don't know
I would hope that they're more
national security interest
it's like well we have the US
price and then hold it.
So yeah, that would be my kind
which I'm not sure.
So you think 1 million is
31.
2025, $1 million Bitcoin, and
2026.
So yeah, that's what I've said
with it.
No cycle theory anymore.
We're just going to kind of
to be that perpetual bid.
And that's what keeps the
Yeah, I think so.
That's very bullish.
Any final thoughts before we
Tim, I appreciate you sharing
Obviously want people to check
but where'd you like people to
from you if they've enjoyed
Yeah, Im Kotsman on X and
podcast, as you mentioned, the
Punter Jeff streams that from
Wednesday evening.
And yeah, there's a couple
be coming out soon that will
sort of platforms.
So I think stay tuned and
on this journey with everybody.
Awesome.
Well, Tim, thank you so much
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you.
Well friends, it's a wrap.
Thanks so much for listening
Show.
If you want to reach out to
links down in the show notes.
And be sure to check out Tim's
As always, keep building, keep
living and leading.
Well.