It's really the tool that I
of my own bitcoin journey.
If a business owner, you know,
up can be a lot to ask for them.
It can be kind of a heavy lift
trying to cook their fried
fish for their sushi for the day.
Whatever your core product
you are already having to be
I think it's just a lot less
And when I think about, you
Francisco, I wish that I had
stomp around town and tell
Welcome to the Business
to helping you enrich your
bitcoin, the hardest money on
I'm your host Josh Friedeman
who's the co founder of
helps businesses passively buy bitcoin.
We're going to get to our
this.
Stephen, welcome to the podcast.
Hey, thanks for having me, Josh.
So I like to start off every
that help us to get to know
us some insight for our own lives.
Are you ready for these?
Let's do it.
Question number one is this.
When and how did you first
I first heard about Bitcoin in
very smart.
I thought I was too busy in my
so kind of shrugged it off.
And then two years later
were still talking about it
I thought, okay, maybe there's
It hasn't faded into obscurity
it a couple years ago, so
And I bought my first small
And once you have a little
more and learn more becomes greater.
And thus began my tumble down
So a quick follow up question
I didn't buy Bitcoin until 2021.
I did have a conversation with
in on the end of a
and just didn't pay attention.
Like a lot of people.
But I've wondered if I would
to stick with it that long
back then.
I feel like when I came in
bitcoin was going and to have
2013, it seems like it
story.
Was it like that along the way?
Did you ever question like,
Is it what I thought it was?
Did you have some of those
confident once you kind of
Oh, I wish I could say that I
the insights, figured it out,
it was very much a journey of
I did read the white paper as
went to, but the educational
not as well built out Back then.
There were not excellent
and so forth that were helping
through various lenses.
And so a lot of it was just
and in chat groups and trying
I.
And the price volatility was
It's still volatile today by
even more so back then.
And, and one thing that your
it's not just hard to kind of
like when it crashes, maybe
bitcoin, but, but in
ups too.
I was looking back at text
other day and, and the message
or 16 was $533, sell, sell,
mark encourage.
Like clearly this is the top.
Clearly you've got to take
And, and so I think the
it sounds easy to just kind of
it and think long term, but
practice to do that.
Feel lucky too that I was
in Austrian economics and, and
strong where I otherwise would
Yep.
Question number two.
What's an insight or fact
understood?
This is going to sound funny,
The most obvious fact, but
million bitcoin maximum.
And I'm sure a lot of people
space.
And so you're going like
Everybody knows that one.
But I think there's this funny
where even a lot of the people
that and they kind of nod
get it.
I, I don't think it's often
You know, I don't think we
appreciate it because we're
day.
In all of our lives, we've
scarce.
You know, the dollars and fiat
They can authorize more shares
They can always make another
know, and, and so there's a
just one more of something,
and something that is very
And even if the price spikes
know, you can't go out and
The mining only happens at a
And I just still think that's
off guard.
I entirely agree with that.
I think there's two things
But it's easy to say there's
understand.
Infinity.
And I remember as a kid trying
thinking that I grasped it
thought had gotten away from me.
I couldn't truly grasp what
Was infinity and scarcity.
And we've never seen true
the physical world other than
But that's not even a set for
So infinity and scarcity are
comprehending.
And I don't think we've gotten
we've truly felt that scarcity.
But when it happens someday
I think.
I agree.
Well said.
So question number three is,
recommend to other people?
The bitcoin resource that was
actually the Satoshi Nakamoto Institute.
It's a website that was kind
Goldstein Pierre Rochard, with
support from the community.
But it's and they've been
2015, maybe 14.
But they I think were the
lens in a rigorous way, in a
And in my personal journey,
off for me where, you know,
just a new computer science
technology kind of nebulous
a candidate for sound money
need to be successful as sound money?
And if it indeed has those
look like?
Is hoarding Bitcoin and saving
is it not using it?
I think that's such an
that type of material.
Question number four, beyond
or idea that's been helpful to
This is.
I got a kind of a fun one for this.
It's definitely bitcoin
journey.
But meetups, so actually just
in Phoenix, Arizona, for example.
And I launched a bitcoin
back in 2018 or 19.
And being in the same room as
and hungry to learn about, in
someone's interest is, whether
group they're involved in, I
upside and fixed downside to
your local area.
Much opportunity, whether it's
developing personal relationships.
If I connect enough dots, I
my decision to attend my first meetup.
And.
And so yeah, would encourage
you're in like a major
there's a high quality local
So.
So go scope it out.
Yep, I strongly echo that sentiment.
It was probably eight, nine
in Bitcoin.
I said, hey, I'm going to
And then I found out there
And since then it's been great.
We have monthly meetups and
as who shows up, but there's a
And then just this last month
So we'll do like the second
and then we're going to start
month for lunch.
And it's really interesting
to the group.
When you get together during lunch.
The conversations you have
then than in the evening meetup.
So definitely recommend
meetup if you can.
So question number five is
question.
And it's this as a general
Is it better to ask why or why not?
Why not?
Default bias for action.
Go do things.
We often are our own kind of
that if people just kind of
a little bit slanted towards
permission.
But context is everything.
But I think, yeah, just going
is, is to shape.
And if you don't like
in an industry, in your
household, like you can affect
Well, Steven, we're here today
orchestra.
I saw you post this on Twitter
excited to learn more.
Could you just share with us a
We'll get into some other
You're involved in local
but you've entered into this
I'd love to hear a little bit
Absolutely excited to chat
it.
The company was actually
Joao Almeida, so he was
Opennode, the lightning
He began working on this
We met in the context of that
in the company.
Well actually so Joao and I
We first met in 2018 at one of
both attended, which was in
And so we kept in touch ever since.
Loved seeing his journey at Opennode.
And so then when I saw him
in the context of that company.
And after I invested into the
texting each other like every
talking about go to market
types of businesses we could
it.
And so it happened very organically.
We just kind of realized one
up and build this thing together.
And so we're excited to be
Orchestra is software, and we
be the easiest way for small
the US to get started saving
So, you know, my personal
And that means listing prices
savings, all of the functions
But.
But I feel that, you know,
And right now we're in the
And that doesn't mean never
Tech is awesome.
It's important to build.
And when businesses adopt it,
early adopters.
But I think that the use case
given bitcoin's volatility and
And by that I mean we're so
that someone walks into your
bitcoin and wanting to spend it.
Someday we will get there, absolutely.
But right now, whether it's
or a physical storefront, the
show up to your business
bitcoin and wanting to spend.
And so we're really trying to
of how much exposure they have
for them to convert some of
bitcoin.
So rather than any changes to
they use, rather than the
to understand wallets and seed
with that, we've just written
the payment system they
that they already use.
And then they just tell us
of their revenues they would
into bitcoin for savings.
So today, the integrations
so far.
We're going to keep adding
lot of the big ones.
Paypal, Stripe, Shopify,
one of the big ones in the
handful of others.
And so if there are businesses
solutions for their point of
Orchestra IO, our website,
they already have, and then we
they can choose whatever
their business.
And we see, especially if the
new to bitcoin, they'll often
But then, you know, maybe they
working and they experience a
And then we've seen them dial
So, you know, it's early days,
be, to be able to really just
the stuff that they've worked
Yep.
I love the idea.
It's very simple.
And I think that for a lot of
just to kind of ratchet it up
I'm curious to know what, what
Do you find a lot of people
I know very early days for the
who are maybe already
a feature like this in their business?
Or is this a lot of outbound
here's something you can do
If you want a little bit of a
Yeah, great question.
So so far, most of the
are owned by people who are
with bitcoin, and they're the
willing to go through the
is just an easier way for them
They don't have to log into an
look at numbers and figure out
have an automatic buy set up,
And if their revenues
and not as high the next
revenue like what we do could
So we see some where it's just
that it's built into the
for them to adopt.
But over time we absolutely
of the, the business owners
Financial literacy education
to a business is a huge part
to be to, to be bringing to
You know, there are over 34
in the U.S.
and I think at some point, you
single one will hold some bitcoin.
As crazy as that probably
I don't think It'll
each business's holdings, but
We're just really trying to
for those small and medium
them where they're at.
And if they learn more and
bitcoin, they want to protect
private keys.
We absolutely encourage that,
for them to withdraw to
would like.
So we want to make it as easy
never want to kind of limit
bitcoin journey.
So I have a follow up question
you just talked about where
You've been in bitcoin for
I'm curious to know, are
be at this point in time?
Or maybe a better way to ask
and what has moved slower than
adoption and.
Growth in terms of adoption,
far along as I thought that we
And I don't really know what
too useful.
Like there has been a lot of
Operation Chokepoint 2.0 for
I think, making a lot of big
hesitant to build solutions
And then there's also just
and blockchain projects.
And so the top of funnel for
bitcoin has been.
It's been difficult to kind of
from all of the thousands of
might be special.
And so I think in some of
ahead as I thought that we
Maybe the price isn't as high
now.
The when is always difficult
by where we are right now.
In this moment, in terms of
lot of the fear that some
involved in this is being removed.
And the ETFs have come to
this asset psychologically for
large capital allocators.
And it's by almost any metric
the history of the public
BlackRock's specifically.
So I think we are about to
exciting.
So back to orchestra.
I'm sort of curious to know,
transaction or is there a
like end of day, how does that work?
And then also is there a way
or is it always a percentage
Yeah, we do allow just ad hoc
a, you know, a smash Buy
And at any time, if you're a
can log in, click buy, acquire
desires.
We but yeah, our core product
of revenues.
So our software links up to
We basically keep track of all
what you have set as the
And so then we're keeping tabs
You can adjust that percentage
owner, three options for settlement.
So you can choose from daily,
And so, you know, we'll kind
that should be be purchased.
But then in terms of the
kind of on those schedules
I'm sure there's probably a
mentioned that you were first
Is there something about the
the focus of it that made it
I don't know how frequently an
a company they've invested,
But I'm curious to know, is
than the fact that the co
and you were talking a lot,
Was there something else about
just feel natural because of a
I love that question.
I think it's because this was
and then I think I quickly
why I wanted to become more
is it's really the tool that I
of my own bitcoin journey.
Back in 2013 and 14, I was
and I was really excited about bitcoin.
And I'm sure a lot of people
You want to tell the people in
it can benefit from them.
And I would just go around my
everywhere about this.
I went to a certain doctor on
because he took bitcoin as payment.
I ate at this sushi spot
took bitcoin as payment.
I would shop on overstock.com
And at the time I kind of
growth of the bitcoin network
But.
But reflecting on it later, if
new to this, then the ramp up
It can be kind of a heavy lift
trying to, you know, cook
their fresh fish for their
Whatever your core product
you are already having to be
And so to have to go and
you know, how to not lose
And then if it's not just you
your staff so that they can
If you are not there for
a lot.
And then even if they
then it's not too often that
in the door and want to pay in
once a month.
And so the ROI just
observation.
And so I think that something
can do it in a way that is
You don't have to ask your
They still swipe their credit card.
You don't have to train your
more about this other way to pay.
I think it's just a lot less
When I think about, you know,
I wish that I had had
around town and tell business
Yeah.
So staying on the investing
how you think about investing
I know you're invested in some
Is the goal to support great projects?
I know you want to make money.
Is it always like, hey, can
What are some of your thoughts there?
Just as far as being an
are already interested in
there.
Yeah.
Investing into startup and
of my journey in recent years.
I've done a little over 75
seed stage companies with my
I'm also a venture partner at
named Trammell Venture Partners.
And their focus is exclusively
bitcoin native companies.
And my personal framework for
and startups and companies are
And so by default, if there is
if I get paid, if there's a
into bitcoin for me.
And then startups are kind of
something.
And yes, it would be fantastic
because that is kind of
It certainly is to me and I
to more of the world.
I think VC firms will be
returns against bitcoin in the
explain to invest investors
the S&P 500 today, Bitcoin
new hurdle rate.
But yeah, it's still so early
so great potentially that that
investing against and outperforming.
Most of the startups that I've
bitcoin.
Most have made money in
bitcoin terms.
There are a handful that have
bulk of my startup investing
years.
And in terms of the ramp up
you tend to see a lot of
Three to ten.
And so we shall see how things go.
But yeah, it's exciting to be
And that intersection of
is really such a sweet spot.
And I think that's still
know, the Silicon Valley VC
and blockchain and in my view
on what makes bitcoin unique yet.
Then the last thing is, if
what you said about bitcoin
in their area, maybe because
area or whatever else.
Do you have any
an effective bitcoin meetup?
Yeah, do it.
I mean, this goes back to like
I, when I moved to Southern
county and there were already
some great bitcoin meetups, frankly.
Like there was a Los Angeles
back and forth on does Orange
or would that be redundant?
And, and I just, you know, you
you like type a few sent and
That takes like 30 minutes of
Maybe nobody shows up.
Maybe one person shows up, but
That's a starting point.
And even if one person shows
going to be really excited and
about bitcoin and it'll be a
you know, you'll grow from there.
Make an account on, on X,
Nostr is kind of earlier in,
in your small town being on
But certainly make an account
and I think just
of it not working out.
The absolute worst thing that
in a restaurant for an hour
and then you go home and
And normally it's not going to
It's going to be like a
up and some are new and some
develop into who knows what.
The upside on those human
And it's still so early in
you'll be reflecting on like
group because it led to xyz.
Absolutely.
So if you would share with us
specifically about orchestra.
Could be anything else as well.
And then where people can go
try or refer other people to
of friends who own businesses
a little bit of bitcoin exposure.
Yeah, absolutely.
We're, you know, orchestra is public.
Any company within the US we
excited to do so.
We spell the name of the
So for listeners, O R Q E S T
You can go on there, you can
The platform is $20 a month or
the fees on the buys and sells
places.
And we also have bookkeeping
because some of the accounting
of a nightmare.
So we see that as a way that
that are dealing with this.
But we'd be really excited to
We want to make sure that the
are delivering way more in
are paying us for the product
So no loss if the platform is
We just cherish any feedback
And I'd say we're also just a
We love bitcoin and we're
to go and push bitcoin on any
the right answer.
We don't want anyone to go all
for their circumstance.
We just want to build tools to
system has been slanted
When, when we print trillions
banks and the primary banks
that money and often it
in a way that is good for
They end up getting the short
And so, you know, we think
field in, in a really powerful way.
And, and we're excited to, to
and and get to partner with
process.
So we'd love to have anyone
try the product and feel free.
My DMs are open on X as well,
Happy to answer any questions
Great.
Well Steven, thank you so much
It's been a pleasure.
Appreciate it.
Josh.
Well friends, it's a wrap.
Thanks so much for listening
show.
If you want to reach out to
those links down in the show notes.
And if you or someone you know
their business's balance
As always, keep building, keep
living and leading.
Well, thanks to those who have
in the last week, including
His boost was about last
where we talked about Deep
AI on open protocols and he
bullish on an open source AI
Ezeki, I feel the same way.
Thank you for the boost, thank
if anyone else would like to
on Fountain.
Neither stream sats as they
include a comment with that
show.