Unless we see a move from $100,000 to $250,000 or $300,000 or $500,000 in fairly short order,
we're just not going to build up enough leverage in the system to create a washout that will
drive us down 70, 80%. We could see the price top out at $125,000. I don't think that's the case,
but we could see it go to $500,000 or beyond. Who knows what's going to happen, but it's an
interesting time to be alive, that's for sure. Ultimately, this is game theory. If the U.S.
government does want to buy some Bitcoin, they shouldn't be telling everyone when they do until
they do. We've had plenty of chance to front run the U.S. government. Bitcoin is continuing to be
integrated into multiple new aspects of everyday life. And the more it integrates into these things,
the harder and harder it is to extract it. If you attack Bitcoin, you are attacking the natural
incentives that other people have to protect it. And the more that Bitcoin is embedded into
people's infrastructure and their day-to-day lives, it becomes so much harder to actually
extract it from that system. Welcome back to another Roundup episode. Today, we're going to
be talking about a variety of topics. The first and maybe most pressing thing for a lot of Bitcoiners
is the fact that we hit a new all-time high last week.
And then this week, we are certainly not there anymore.
The question is, what happened and what does this mean?
Is the bull run over?
People are concerned.
I don't think you guys are probably too concerned.
But what are your thoughts on the Bitcoin all-time high
followed by this relative crash?
Yeah, I think Bitcoin was kind of doing what it's expected to do,
which is go up and make new all-time highs every once in a while.
and um you know it kind of been just consolidating for a little bit and looked like it was going
higher and started breaking out and i was watching the price and thinking to myself like i don't know
something doesn't seem right like this is not really reaching escape velocity yet it just seemed
like it was moving a little too slow after it reached into those new heights uh and sure enough
somebody came in and sold a bunch i think the the primary kind of driver of that uh if you're if
you're looking for one, was the inflation information that came out that day that basically
showed that inflation was much hotter than people were anticipating, at least on the producer price
index perspective, which you would expect to feed into the consumer price index as well a little bit
down the line. And that is one of the key metrics that the Fed is using to make their decision on
rates and rate cuts and that kind of thing. And so, you know, if inflation is running hotter,
then you would expect that the Fed is going to be a little bit more, um, more hawkish when it comes
to their, uh, their, you know, rate decisions and that kind of thing. And I think the market was just
pricing in that possibility. I, you know, since, since we've sold off, that was a pretty,
pretty big red candle there. Um, and we've kind of just been drifting lower a little bit, uh,
kind of slowly, like it hasn't really accelerated. There's a little bit of a bid that looks like it
came in today as well. So, you know, I think this is very normal for what we've seen over the course
of this bull market so far, which is that all dips are bought. There's so many buyers in the
market. They're just kind of sitting underneath the market, sitting on the bid and just scooping
up coins whenever they come on a little bit of a discount. So I know I was buying a little bit of
this dip. And I think the Bitcoin treasury companies are out there buying this dip.
And we're going to continue to see these buyers come in in force when there's any kind of drawdown
in the price. And if that actually is the case, then it might take some time to work through
whatever selling pressure came in. But ultimately, this thing should resolve higher and will continue
the march upward. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's really been a steady up into the right. If you
look over the last two years, especially from the summer of 2023. And I think now we're approaching
that year and a half post-halving coming up here in October of 2025 that we tend to see the peak
of a bull run. But I think now as we're approaching around 95% of supply of Bitcoin already issued,
we may be seeing that the new issuance of Bitcoin having less of an effect on the overall
price action and having, as you mentioned, more of a steady bid, bigger buyers, institutional
buyers that aren't going to let the price fall even 30, 40 or 50 percent because they're going
to buy that dip quicker, knowing that we've continued to head towards all time high.
So as much as we love to see more open water Bitcoin, I think, you know, when you hit that
about 125K coming back down, I certainly expect to see us testing well above that.
So when the relative crash or dip is to the mid-110Ks, we're in a good spot compared for
a new year over the years.
But I think definitely an entry point.
There's never a bad time to get in to Bitcoin and start saving in Bitcoin.
So as we continue to progress, I just think we're going to see more of that.
But certainly, the liquidity engines spigots haven't been fully turned on yet.
There's been a call for it, lowering interest rates, but very much still elevated rate environment here in the U.S.
So, quick pulse check.
I'm curious to know if you guys at this point in time think that we're still going to be lined up with the four-year cycles.
I mean, some people are calling for a September high followed by the bear market.
Or would you subscribe more to the extended cycle?
I was just listening to Tur Demeester on a report that Unchain actually put out.
And he was saying that he thinks we're probably seeing some extended cycles and that 2021 was cut a little bit short last time.
But we would have seen that trend.
Or do you feel like we're not really at that point where we're going to have a very easily identifiable cycle anymore?
Yeah, the cycle is not dead yet.
If we are still just in this kind of chop solidation through the end of this year and going into next year, then, you know, maybe that argument holds more water.
But I tend to agree with Tour that, you know, it might be a little bit extended from past cycles, just given the way that the price action has happened.
And given the new players that are in the market, these institutional players and the more fulsome derivative markets that are out there and the ETFs and the options markets on the ETFs and Bitcoin treasury companies and all of this.
So the market dynamic is definitely different.
But I'm still not convinced that we don't at some point hit escape velocity on this price that brings in retail in a much more forceful way and just more broadly buyers that are price indiscriminate because they just have FOMO.
And whenever that happens, leverage builds up and you get these massive price increase.
And I still maintain that we won't see these huge drawdowns without a corresponding price increase at the beginning of that.
So unless we see a move from 100,000 to 250,000 or 300,000 or 500,000 in fairly short order, like we have in the past, we're just not going to build up enough leverage in the system to create a washout that will drive us down 70, 80%.
Um, so I, I, I'm the more time goes on in this type of environment, especially given
the tailwinds of the macro economy and the debt and the money printing that is on the
horizon, the more I feel confident that this is just extended cycle.
We're going to extend, uh, and, uh, stair step higher until at some point you just, uh,
go past the event horizon where the black hole above starts sucking the price higher.
John, what do you think?
Yeah, I definitely agree.
I think we're still living in the cycle, but it's likely going to be extended, I think,
into 2026 or until whenever you get a new Fed chair in, that's going to play ball a
bit more with the agenda that Trump and Besson want to have with lowering 10 and 30-year yields
ultimately, which are a little bit out of their grasp, but they can, of course, adjust the Fed
fund rates down and let the liquidity flow a bit more and really play towards the growth angle.
And that's the value that money is just going to flow into harder assets. And we know Bitcoin is
the hardest asset. And at this point, now has an inflation rate even less than gold. And we did
see a bit of a spike there in gold when there was a little bit of a tariff scare with the bars coming
out of Switzerland and I think a little bit of a preview too So as much as Bitcoin continues to be recognized as digital gold and even well beyond that and being a very strong medium of exchange compared to gold
which is not,
and very much prone to centralization and censorship,
I think just the narrative and the drumbeats will continue to get louder
and will continue to have a distribution of Bitcoin
through the mining process, of course,
still 450 Bitcoin a day.
So still a solid amount of Bitcoin that is being absorbed by the market.
But you're going to have these sellers as you have maybe many tops taking some off the table or for whatever reason, as we saw here in the mid-120s, maybe some sell-off happening.
But until the MVRV is a great ratio, I think, to look at the market value versus realized value of the last time the Bitcoin changed hands.
And as long as we're still in like the two-ish range or not at the four, five, six range, that's when markets really get overheated.
We'll have a good evidence on when that is.
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Yeah, imagine this scenario, right? We've gone from, call it 30 to 40,000 or wherever it was
around the banking crisis back in 2023 with SVB, all the way up to 118,000. And we've now spent
significant amount of time above 100,000, right? Like there's been, I think I saw over 100 trading
days now where the price has been above 100,000. That starts to go into people's psyche, right?
It's 100,000, six-figure Bitcoin has become normalized.
And this is all with this overhang of a fairly hawkish Fed and fairly hawkish monetary policy that Chair Powell has pursued, keeping rates higher, not necessarily responding to weakness that other people are seeing in the economy.
And with Trump trumpeting louder that Powell needs to go and that the replacement for him whenever his term comes up in early next year is going to be much more dovish.
Now, all of a sudden, you're going to have a brand new tailwind coming into the market with much more liquidity.
And so it seems pretty difficult to imagine that that's not going to affect the price of Bitcoin in anticipation of that and in early next year.
So we really just need to kind of continue to grind through these next months if that's the market dynamic that we're going to see play out.
And then all of a sudden you've got a brand new tailwind.
But what could happen is that we start getting that acceleration in Q4, the way that the four-year cycle typically plays out.
And then they start easing even on top of that, right?
It's like it could cause this kind of perfect storm.
And in that scenario, the price is going to go very high and there's going to be this leverage buildup that we're going to see, which is going to lead to a massive drawdown later, maybe later next year or something like that.
So that's a very possible scenario, I think, that we could see play out.
It's easy to want to see patterns and to follow those patterns.
But I forget who it was that prognosticated back in the 90s about the end of history.
And there may have been this time where things felt like not a whole lot was happening or would happen in the future.
You know, there was enough peace and whatever else.
But one thing's for sure, whether it's Bitcoin or just, you know, geopolitics, we're living in a very interesting time.
And I would not assume at any point that, you know, past performance would at all indicate what's going to happen in the future.
We're living in a time where who knows what could happen.
I mean, we could see the price top out at 125.
I don't think that's the case, but we could see it go to 500,000 or beyond.
Who knows what's going to happen?
But it's an interesting time to be alive, that's for sure.
I mean, 125, like, again, I find it very hard to believe that we're going to correct by 70% from the recent high of 124, 125, right?
And so if we're saying, oh, the price has topped, what that would ultimately imply is that we're going to maybe chop around for the next six months or even a year or something in between the $100,000, you know, or maybe $80,000 to $125,000 range or whatever.
um like that's gonna really grind on people for sure but it's not gonna feel so disastrous
as a 70 drawdown from 125 to bring you back down to like 30 000 or whatever right like
that i think is not in the cards right now now i'm pretty sure we don't have major
bitcoin strategic reserve fans here on on this uh discussion right here but earlier in the week
about the same time that Bitcoin fell in price, Scott Bessent was on TV, and he seemed to indicate
that there were really no plans to buy into the Bitcoin Strategic Reserve. He later walked that
back on X. A lot of Bitcoiners seem to be suggesting that that was the reason that the
Bitcoin price fell. Trey, you've already spoken to this a little bit. I feel like it's really easy
for Bitcoiners to think that the world revolves around Bitcoin, and I don't think that's at all
the case. I mean, there's a whole lot of red at the end of last week. But do you think that that
was him misspeaking? Or do you feel like it's just an indication of what we sort of had either
feared or anticipated anyway, which is that the US isn't going to be buying Bitcoin anytime soon?
I still don't think they will be buying Bitcoin anytime soon. I don't know that
it was a miss misspeaking on his part though these kinds of things almost feel like trial
balloons or something like i like these people these are very measured people they don't make
these types of rhetorical mistakes very often at least i mean it's possible that this that's what
this was but uh it felt to me more like okay i'm i'm just gonna tell it kind of like it is
and signal to the market that we're not going to be buying Bitcoin and see how things react.
And then there must have been some other pressure that came in and told him to, no, you got to walk
that back, which also might have been a trial balloon. You just kind of never know what kind
of machinations are happening in the background. But I don't think that these things happen by
accident. I feel like, you know, the way that the Fed manages things, the way that the Treasury
manages things, the way that the government in large part manages things is through rhetoric
and through, you know, what they are focusing on and what they are talking about. And I just find
it hard to believe that the Treasury Secretary, who is normally very on point and on top of things,
is just talking out of the left side of his mouth when the right side of his mouth is thinking of
something else. He's just making a huge mistake or something. I just don't see that as plausible.
John, what do you think?
Yeah, I think that's an interesting theory. And he definitely walked it back via X and tweeting
later on and saying, hey, there are going to be budget neutral ways that we approach
buying Bitcoin or getting more Bitcoin and actually did give a number, I think in that
$10 to $15 billion range of how much Bitcoin the US government actually still holds.
So that's still very much an unknown of how much out of the 200,000 or so seized Bitcoin
does the government actually still hold?
Is it more in the under $2,500, $150K coin range and not all the way at $200K?
Then they need to keep the price down to potentially get back to the level the current administration
thought they were at when they were coming in here and ultimately issuing the executive order
that came in in January to find budget neutral ways of buying Bitcoin.
I agree very much I think testing maybe market reactions to that and that revaluing of the gold that potentially a trillion dollar play that they could do is also I think very much still on the table as much as he said
it's not either. I mean, the US has had a history of revaluing gold, a couple of key points of
basic default. And as they get more desperate to pay off the debt that we know is looming,
they're going to look to resort to that. And I still think, yeah, BitBonds is an amazing
potential option that the government could look at in terms of if you're going to issue some debt,
include some Bitcoin in there and get some appreciation. And if we don't, if the government
doesn't, well, then the deficit keeps running away and they have even more challenges. So I agree.
I think Besson's very measured and calculated. So I don't think it was necessarily a slip,
maybe more of a testing of the reaction. But ultimately, this is game theory. If the US
government does want to buy some Bitcoin, they shouldn't be telling everyone when they do until
they do, because you already have other countries buying it or companies or individuals that you've
had plenty of chance to front run the US government. So yeah, I think that certainly
interesting timing was right around the PPI numbers coming out. So it's hard to tell maybe
what sank the market price right at that moment on the Wednesday morning.
But markets react quick to these announcements, and whether it's the Fed or now the Treasury
getting out there and stating what they plan to do.
And generally, the Fed has telegraphed things pretty far in advance now under this current
Fed, but maybe that could change as well.
So certainly an interesting experiment.
When was the executive order that established the SBR?
When did that happen?
And like, in my mind, it just, this was like six or nine months ago.
If they were going to buy Bitcoin with budget neutral ways, they've had time to do that.
You know, like it only gets harder in my mind, the longer this goes.
And I know things move like a little bit slowly, but we're again, talking about an executive
order here.
We're talking about the executive branch telling their employees, the people who work directly
for them, what they should do.
Um, and that hasn't happened yet.
So it just, I'm just skeptical that even that piece of it is going to happen at this point.
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It's a curious thing, and I don't know what's going to happen. I do think there will be
more signaling before there's a major announcement. That said, you know, you're talking about,
Trey, just how at the upper echelons of society, especially rhetoric matters a lot.
Signaling matters a lot, too.
And Harvard has just announced that they've purchased 116 million dollars of BlackRock's
Bitcoin ETF.
That's out of, you know, I think something like a 50 billion dollar endowment.
I may be off by an order of magnitude.
I don't know.
It's a ton of money.
And so it's not that high of a percentage.
But I think that type of signal is also really important.
I remember years ago, I reached out to my alma mater, much smaller, not Ivy League, but I was trying to get them to think about buying Bitcoin.
It was pre ETFs. It probably seemed way too scary.
But it's just one of those things that I think a lot of schools are going to be looking at what Harvard has done and whether or not they agree with Harvard.
Harvard is certainly a signal to them.
I'm very interested to see what schools do and what other institutions continue to do as states and institutions like Harvard are buying Bitcoin.
Yeah, the Harvard endowment is kind of a bellwether among university endowments, right?
It's kind of famous.
Harvard is kind of famous for having a very successful and very large foundation or endowment there.
And so people do look to it as a signal for being able to justify other allocations that they might not otherwise make.
Right. If any other university endowment, the guys who are running that, guys and gals who are running that are looking for an excuse to now get Bitcoin exposure.
Well, they have it. They have they can point to Harvard and not say we were the first, you know, and to say, look,
If Harvard's doing it, it's good enough for us. And yeah, it's a very small allocation. That's
typically how these things start. People need to wet their beak a little bit before everybody is
comfortable with larger allocations. Who knows what type of allocation rule set they put in place.
You know, a lot of times in these, these large allocators will put in a rule that says we're not
going to let this, you know, if it goes up by 3x, we're going to trim it down to, you know, 2% or
whatever the thing is. Right. And so that that remains to be seen. But it is much more important
that they are doing it as opposed to the size that they're doing it at. A hundred million dollars is
not that big, but it's also, you know, it's not like they just bought one Bitcoin and said,
let's see how this goes. You know? Yeah. It depends on who you ask. A hundred million dollars is,
you know, there are actually a lot of smaller schools that have size, you know, really built
up endowments across the years. And, you know, they're they're right at that kind of hundred
million dollar level. So I'd be really interested to see if some of them might take some of that
signaling and, you know, set aside a million or just, you know, a hundred thousand or it'll just
be interesting to see what other schools do, how they interpret that signal and how much they want
to hop in as well. Yeah, I think it's a massive signal to the university space that has typically
gotten a lot of government funding, right? And they're been supporting. And now there's been
some threats to that government funding for universities. So if the ultimate purpose,
the endowment is to ensure a very long time horizon for an institution, you need to look
at preserving your capital. And Bitcoin is the best way to preserve your capital over the long
term. So I think there actually wasn't enough. You didn't see a lot of news about it in the
traditional coverage, I think, of this decision by Harvard. I think Brown also got into the mix as
well. Certainly, it's been covered in the Bitcoin circles, but not as much in TradFi. And so it's
a huge signal. And I think the other institutions will have to follow their lead. Otherwise,
they will be left behind. And as it has been getting more and more competitive
for admissions and for fighting for talent, they're going to need to buy Bitcoin.
And there's some universities that have gotten in to education, such as with Nick Bhatia at USC.
And there's others that are in the Bitcoin space, economists that are educating on Austrian economics and Bitcoin.
But Nick had said recently, it's like 1 in 30.
And it's really an event we hosted in Chicago.
And it's among his peers.
And I think in general, just amongst institutions.
We're still that early in the low percentage points of Bitcoin adoption.
So seeing Harvard take this leap, yeah, $100 million isn't anything to scoff at.
It's bigger than the annual budget for probably many schools.
And to take that big of a leap into Bitcoin, I think we should see more announcements or
at least institutions starting to have these conversations.
We know that can be very bureaucratic, so it's probably going to take a little while,
but it's moving the Overton window in that discussion point.
Yeah, it's also an important signal relative to just Harvard's view or the endowment's
view of the viability of Bitcoin and its stance from a regulatory perspective and all that,
right? Like four or five years ago, you wouldn't see them take this position and they probably cite,
you know, the government's going to ban it, this and that, right? Nobody is really raising those
concerns anymore. They're allocating to Bitcoin with the assumption that this now has the blessing
of the government and that they don't have, that's not an attack factor that they need to worry about.
It not a threat to their position And so now they just trying to figure out OK this is here to stay It you know there there either tacit support from the government or at least they getting out of the way of it And now I can think about incorporating it into my asset allocation strategy
Another exciting update this last week was Block announcing their new proto-mining rig.
And I don't keep up with the mining space all that much.
So you two might know more than I do, especially about the implications here.
But essentially, it's it's a modular mining setup where something breaks.
You change that part without having to replace the entire thing.
And it seems like it's actually done in a very easy way, like not really many tools required.
You can do it, do it just in a few minutes or a few seconds.
So it seems really interesting.
And it also kind of brings some of the mining production, the production of ASICs back to the United States, at least the development.
And I'm actually not sure where Block is manufacturing these.
But traditionally, a lot of the ASICs have been developed and manufactured in Asia, probably primarily China.
Have you followed this story, either of you, very much?
And kind of what are your thoughts on how this influences the mining space?
Yeah, I think it's a huge play to see Block and Jack Dorsey continue to fuel open source development of not only on the software side and enabling merchant adoption of Bitcoin,
But now on the mining side, I think it's a huge win.
They're going to be running Stratum V2 out of the box and just give way more modularity
into those miners and keep more uptime as really it's the most competitive market in
the world to try to be a Bitcoin miner at scale.
You have the ability to swap in different components if something is down and for repair
rather than needing to take the whole miner off the shelf to repair.
And uptime is super important to ensure the profitability of a mine at scale.
And I think one of the bigger threats to Bitcoin continues to be is always centralization.
And in the mining space, and particularly mining pools, you see the bigger miners and
collecting, wanting more regular collection of checks instead of the variability of winning
a block.
And you see even Foundry getting, I think a couple of days ago, like eight blocks in a
And you have some major pools, centralization, that this can help push back against maybe any complacency in that part of the industry.
You know, Parker Lewis launched a new podcast, Center of Hash, to talk about a lot of this stuff.
Recommend people to tune in to that.
But I think bringing, you mentioned China as well, between Bitmain and AntMiner, coming out of the similar kind of houses there,
being able to develop and build more of the technology here in the US is a massive win.
So exciting to see way more efficient miners, more options coming to the market.
Yeah, I don't really have a whole lot to add other than I'm happy to see American-made
manufacturing relative to mining hardware. Just given the fact that that historically has been
totally dominated by China. And, you know, any new developments in that space are welcome for sure.
I love the Stratum V2 integration there as well to kind of help to battle any potential
threats to decentralization on the mining front. And yeah, we need more entrants in this space.
We need more people thinking about Bitcoin mining and seeing it as an opportunity. And,
And it's just more evidence of Bitcoin's incentive structure at play as people come into space and try to develop things to help build it out in a much more robust way.
So, Trey, one final thing before we finish up today.
You had brought this to my attention.
The Fed has ended their novel activity supervision program.
I thought this or something like it had already been done.
You know, I did a little bit of reading up on it. It's just kind of officially happened. Am I confusing this with another story or was there some sort of legislative action that happened? Had this been announced that it would be ending or is this totally kind of out of the blue?
Well, the Fed doesn't just control interest rates. They have a very strong regulatory function as well across the banking system. And essentially what this is saying is that they're removing this kind of extracurricular framework for evaluating banks relative to Bitcoin and crypto that they had put in place from the prior administration.
So I think it's just a legacy framework built from the days of Chokepoint 2.0 that has been officially discarded from the Fed.
So the normal activity of regulating that they're doing, Bitcoin now fits within that framework as opposed to having some kind of special carve out there.
And what it ultimately means, I think, is just that it's another indication that banks are being given the green light to build tooling, to connect into the Bitcoin network, to offer services that are using Bitcoin, built on Bitcoin, or otherwise just incorporating Bitcoin and its use as store value or collateral or whatever they will be building.
It just gives them the green light to go forward with some of those efforts.
John, any thoughts on this? I don't know how much you've been keeping up with this. It's a little bit not out of my wheelhouse, but it's not a story that I followed.
Yeah, I think it's still just remnants of Chokepoint 2.0 and a lot of an anti-regulatory stance along for Bitcoin or digital assets in general.
So any of these sort of regulations that were in place or safeguards that were put around any banks, trusts wanting to interact with Bitcoin going away.
I think these were the types of things happening a little more behind the scenes that were harder to really know until you were wanting to build a business that was connecting to Bitcoin rails alongside the fiat rails.
So certainly a positive development to see some of these, I think, discriminatory acts really against the money that is open source and anybody can tap into the Bitcoin network and enable more innovation to take place here in America.
Yep. The just larger theme across all of these different stories is that Bitcoin is continuing to be integrated into multiple new aspects of everyday life and business and industry and infrastructure. And the more it integrates into these things, the harder and harder it is to extract it.
And so if you attack Bitcoin, you are attacking the natural incentives that other people have to protect it.
And the more that Bitcoin is embedded into people's infrastructure and their day-to-day lives as a savings vehicle and their 401ks as, you know, a product that the banks are offering for their customers, you know, on and on becomes so much harder to actually extract it from that system.
And so we just continue to see it become embedded into everyday life and become normalized as part of something that is just something that people do.
Bitcoin is just it's here. It's here to stay. It's something that everybody now knows about and more and more people are integrated with.
The path is being cleared for Bitcoin adoption.
I think a lot of people who are in it on a day to day basis can be frustrated by the short term price movements.
But anyone who's been around long enough knows that it's going up over time.
So my encouragement to anyone who is listening to this is stay the path.
Things are going to be easier in the future for Bitcoin than ever, but it's never easy in the day to day to hodl.
So just stay strong and stick out this bull market as difficult as it may seem in the short term.
John, can we hear from you about where people can go to keep up with what you're doing?
And then Trey, we'll finish up with you.
Yeah, feel free to reach out at the Bitcoin Yogi on X or Noster and check out my consulting work,
helping businesses integrate Bitcoin at satoshihelp.com.
And then we're launching a Bitcoin health savings account vehicle at soundhsa.com.
You can check that out.
Actually, we have an event coming up at The Space in Denver on Sunday.
We'll be live streaming that to X as well, all about the connection of sound money and
sound health, hearing from some doctors and other entrepreneurs who are integrating Bitcoin
into their day-to-day.
So happy to connect with you all there.
All right.
And you can find me at TS underscore HODL on X.
and go check out my newsletter on financial independence and Bitcoin.
It is firebtc.substack.com.
Appreciate you having me.
Yep, we'll talk to you guys in a couple of weeks.
Thanks. Cheers.
Well, friends, it's a wrap.
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Bitcoin Playbook.
If you want to reach out to either me, Trey or John,
you can find those links down in the show notes.
Be sure to check out Sound HSA and the Fire BTC Substack.
As always, keep building, keep growing.
Until next time, keep living and leading well.
you