So whenever you have a
you know, quotable, tweetable,
Like sailor memeable, right?
Like sailors were this once in
that transcends, you know,
I make me like, I'm making
Like there is no second best,
to reach the, you know, the
memeing you and then to reach,
to Microsoft and to, you know,
to all the large companies,
in the world, that's pretty
If you are a spokesperson and
your ideas in a way going to
edge of their seat.
So I want what this guy's
it's going to be really easy going.
Welcome to the Business
The show dedicated to helping
business with bitcoin, the
I'm your host, Josh
Phil, who is the founder of
that focuses on working with
Today on the show, you're
help you get in front of the
We're going to get to our
Phil, welcome to the podcast.
Josh, great to be on here.
Thanks for having me.
So I like to start off every
that help us to get to know
us some insight for our own lives.
Are you ready for these?
Let's hit it.
Question number one is this.
When and how did you first
This is for me, such an
I think the difference
about it is different than
And there's all these
I initially heard about it
it.
But then 2017 came along and
At this time I was working at
John McAfee saying that he was
I know it's family friendly
bad words or anything, but he
to cut something off.
If bitcoin didn't hit, I think
And at this point I had heard
all.
And this was sort of like this
said he was going to do this
I was working at a TV station,
of thing, decided to buy a
So McAfee got me in, started
didn't really do the deep dive
The pandemic came along and
full on rabbit hole.
And it's a rabbit hole you
Once you go down that rabbit
It would be interesting to
to learn a lot about bitcoin,
it and then kind of came back
many.
I feel like there are a
burned early on or joined at
realize what they were holding
whatever.
But that's interesting.
I haven't thought through how
believing in what bitcoin is
I personally think, well, it's
But I've also talked to other
bit devs.
The interesting thing is 2017
reengaged when the price run
then, you know, it, it, it
But then almost that bear
I really have to take myself
Like I should really be able
So I think it's like those,
and harden you, you know,
for, for learning.
And I think it's just a part
I don't know, maybe a lot of
So question number two is
that you wish everyone understood?
I'm going to go with something
I think it's that bitcoin has
There's no media department,
I know our parents think that
that's kind of poetic and true.
And I say that because every
bitcoin in some way, shape or form.
There's this running joke that
and whatever.
Whatever.
I 100% disagree.
I think we need more podcasts.
I think we need more people
writing about it, more people
It feels like it's crowded
We need more.
And to anyone that is thinking
there's no limit just being on
the Reddit bitcoin forum,
But there's something, some
and I guarantee you that
So I would just say
permissionless and open.
It's a welcoming space and
involved from day one.
Question number three, what's
to other people?
So I think it kind of depends
Like if I'm speaking to one of
maybe they're a financial
I'm probably giving them
For a lot of other people that
that traditionally didn't get
I would say a bullish case for bitcoin.
It's really like the easiest
for bitcoin.
It's like, I think a little
You can find it on YouTube.
Guy Swan narrates it and he
Guy is like the internal
because I've listened to so
He's a godsend.
So thank you, Guy.
So I'd start them off with
that far, they're probably
Now then bitcoin standard and
series with Breedlove and if
then they're a full on maxi at
okay, here's everything that
everything in between to
And have, have fun from here.
I'm here as A resource, but you've.
You've made it, my friend.
All right, question number four.
Beyond Bitcoin, what's a
helpful to you or your work recently?
So I know you said beyond
And there it's just such a
And I consider it beyond
if any type of E commerce, any
your farmer's market, E
the regular world outside of
And it's just.
And I went through all these
and Zapright was by far the
It's so sleek.
And when I first started using
a question, question, and
was like, oh, crap, it's
Like, and I got on a call with
like, he made himself
his, you know, previous, you
all the conferences and have
And that was pretty rad moment
But outside of Zapright, I
my business with what I do
marketing is no longer about
about the stories that you tell.
And I try and remember that
When I, when I show up to do
work with is we're still so
technical jargon that's
to, in the market, and we want
And technically, you know, why
But at the end of the day, if
we need to be focused on the
And how is this going to make
point this is?
There is.
How does this help solve that?
You know, so I.
It's.
It's so easy to get lost in
and it's so important.
But, you know, knowing that,
creatively about how to
are important, but in a way
So it's just an idea that I
So now we have our final, what
question, and it's this.
As a general life principle,
This is a really tough one.
Yeah, I don't.
I don't know, but I'm not
So.
So why would be more of the
Like, okay, what is the
What does this mean?
Why not is, you know, Leroy
Let's take action.
I'm a.
I'm a thinker.
I tend to overthink.
I want to really plan stuff out.
I'll just say, because I know
I'll say, why not?
For me.
Because at the end of the day,
At a certain point, you can
about a certain thing and
to say, you know what?
Screw it.
Let's just go for it and do
So why not?
Well, Phil, we're here today
Communications, primarily a PR
Are somehow connected to Bitcoin.
We can talk about some of the
maybe who you're looking to
But I guess the main reason I
it was probably two years ago
Ventures say, we need someone
And at the time, I knew
side.
So I reached out to him, and
do with bitcoin because he was
that the United States
it will be too much of a
Things seem to be changing in
I was never really concerned
he declined, and I didn't have
I think that it's something
forward to learning more about
the future for PR in this
are that business owners
or not they have any
balance sheet or accepting it.
So with all that preamble,
your business and how you guys
Absolutely.
You're spot on.
And Mike Jarmus is Spot on too.
I've got an ongoing
I've spent my career in media,
magazines, digital, and then
Comms and PR agency.
And what I learned in the
all of the crypto companies
to work with a few bitcoin
it was hard for me to keep,
And I, I saw an opportunity to
only communications and pr.
You know, they're bitcoiners.
Want to work with other
When you're working with a
working with folks that likely
right?
Maybe they actually own a
it.
But they're also handling like
of the day they're just trying
move on to the next account.
So I wanted to do something
that I understand it at a
we know it's going to change
So having someone that you can
understands how to position
that's going to resonate with
podcasts, and of course
point, really that was going
so underfunded it's a joke.
All that capital goes to
of venture capitalists being
and then exit out of it.
So there, there's this gap
right?
You have fantastic venture
like 1031 being one of them.
Ego death Capital Lightning Ventures.
But there's still this gap
and where we're going to be in
And I wanted to fill that gap
service at a really affordable
is today.
And yeah, man, at the end of
orange peeling the media so
and working with these bitcoin
I'm curious to know where you
maybe the need for better pr.
I mean, it's probably easy to
I don't really want to do that.
But just broadly speaking,
like a lot of companies could,
to their pr?
Any type of milestone, really.
You see all these kind of
that go out on Twitter or X,
know, product update.
And, you know, it's oftentimes
know, appeasing or, you know,
really want to see that, but
So, you know, there's, I see
go out.
I'm like, you know what?
I know a reporter that would
this news before it went live
I probably know a few that
with that.
And then all of a sudden, you
know, putting that out there
talking about it at the same time.
Right?
Whether that's even like a
type of milestone, some new
Right.
Like if you have someone
know, traditional finance
anything that you have going
to make a splash.
Right.
And there's different
based off of what it is.
But I would just say probably
hold on that timeline and
shot and saying, what can we
attention behind this.
Because if you're not doing
opportunities and then
to miss new customers.
When it comes to a major
a new product, whatever else
be planning and preparing for that?
I think you've just said that
preparation for that as there
Is that because it seems like
in advance or they just don't
that splash?
I think they're not, they
Right?
So you have to revisit those
You know, where is the ball at
Right?
Because in any given
technical in nature, you need
And so that can shift
And so when that keeps
just get it out.
Let's get it out on Tuesday
You probably need someone in
down.
And is this a realistic date?
Maybe a week.
After that, we just make sure
put the not only best possible
in our comms.
The announcements getting
time that reporters are
know, and then you shared it
community, whatever it is.
So then it just, you know,
It looks, looks clean.
And because things change so
that does, like, as I
a weekly basis.
But if there's, let's say
going to, you know, be coming
Let's, let's have that for
Okay, so backdate that a month
which is what I would do, right.
That announcement needs to be
that company.
But then the investors, right,
That could take a couple
Sometimes longer.
And then when you, when you
know, put yourself in the
They need time to evaluate if
They're getting pitched, you
And then they need time to get
the spokesperson, and they
And, you know, if you're only
like, hey, we've got this big
It's going out tomorrow.
Are you interested?
That's not going to really
that reporter.
It's not going to make their
You want to help them win at
So that in the future too,
You have a relationship with
have questions because they
in your industry and
And then it just, it looks good.
So a month minimum, I'd say is
And I've been tinkering around
like, different bit devs
be a bitcoin startup and you
now, but here's what you can
and help yourself.
So I'm getting close to that,
me.
And when it comes to reaching
article for you, would that
timeline talking a couple of weeks.
How long do people tend to
to go out?
Slash, how much preparation or
Yeah, I like to give 10
weeks.
You don't always get it at the
So you have to factor in.
You know, if you're pitching
you know, horrible days to
Right.
So your.
Your money days, Tuesday,
want that announcement to go
Thursday, for that reason.
So when you think of it, you
days of pitching, excluding
So say you pitch them on a
a few days.
You reach back out to
they say they want to do it,
Maybe they want to hop on an interview.
The interview gets pushed to
Then you've only got a couple
write that feature so you can.
So you can see how it all just
Best practice, give them 10
You know, start pitching on
that Monday, and then have the
after that.
Perfect.
So 2025 is going to be a big
tell.
Is this the.
I mean, I'm guessing that
it's a good time to announce it.
But thinking years into the
something during a bull run is
Because obviously you have
when the price is soaring, but
compete with.
How should a business owner
two factors?
That's a great, great question.
And I would say this.
We're working with the
leadership, Thought leadership
Right?
So whether it's a bull or a
in between announcements that
So what do you do to fill that gap?
Right.
And so that's, you know, you
price movement, broadcast TV
Any type of mention in an article.
That's all the work that, you
that we're putting our
consistent brand recognition
feature interviews, regardless
they have.
And so how do they do that?
Well, one, you have to be a
Like, or probably a little bit
plugged into the media all the
to see what they're working on
can be of help to them finding
up that aren't really being
working with my spokesperson
Do you have an opinion on it?
Can you give me a few
for you to share with this reporter?
Or even a few bullet points so
help you make sense of this
the pike and we can help them
good article.
So doing those types of things
the snowball effect, right?
You can get a lot of
that's great.
That's the easiest way to do it.
But getting those consistent
you're being a source for that
that really, once you get that
to stop.
And then you start getting
Okay, you've got people that
Let's connect you and do it
So going back to your original
right now.
Yeah, really, is it better to
market when there's a lot of interest?
It's a bear market and there's
So in a, in a bear market, if
it's going to be newsworthy if
Right.
Which is a, which is a low
say for like, you know, the
of the world, New York Times.
You know, that's, that's,
of media in the bull market.
You, you know, there, I think
checked, doing things that
of like 15 million or something.
So.
But there's ways to get around
So if you have that gap and
higher when you're pitching,
then.
And I, But I really want to go
then is there, Is there a way
or this reporter?
Is there a good story that we
amount?
Like, what are we gonna.
What are we doing with this money?
Is there a human interest
broader economic story?
What can we, what can we say
and beyond that number?
But additionally, you know,
Okay, we know we just want to
That's our, that's our dream.
Well, let's offer them an exclusive.
Hey, you will be the only
to break this news.
Okay.
And then once the news goes
them a bit of a buffer, like
live to then do day of
that you would have pitched
of coverage and week of
go about that.
Your question is really
these things.
I have a lot to say.
I'll try and bite my lip on
if you're going to boil it
a bull, I would say a bull
everyone's paying attention.
They're getting readers and
are now, because of price
more about bitcoin.
Why aren' guys, why aren't you
Oh, why did.
I saw this.
Why didn't you talk about that?
So maybe the organizations are
to have, you know, a higher,
within, you know, the overall
So bull market is, is
too, to, you know, build
one else is really, really
they should be.
Do you find that as companies
more then people start
cover or pursuing leads from
The reason that I ask is
not experienced this with
a much more niche podcast.
Previously I had a podcast
Early on I started going to
that were going to be coming
or publishers.
And pretty quickly I developed
were reaching out to me,
I know it's different when you
but if you start putting
it become easier over time to
because you have these
100%.
It's, it's pretty.
It can be.
It can get overwhelming right
ready for that.
Okay.
So if, if you're gonna go have
for the company and for
broadcast interviews, the
right.
Having somebody that's going
to being successful.
And then it gets to a point
management.
Right.
Early on you can sort of just
to say and get your attention.
And then, you know, once all
change a little bit.
Right.
So being able to tweak that, I
The way he speaks about
Right.
Whereas before he was talking
know, you could, good luck.
You know, I lost him in a
that, you know, self custody
know, try and quote him and
But he's saying things against
That's probably some legal
But he was also, you know,
different audience than he's
Right.
So your messaging is going to change.
How can you, how can you keep
You know, but, you know, walk,
depending on who the audience is.
But yeah, man, I would say
you get it rolling downhill,
seem to stop.
And yeah, you got to be ready
structures in place to make
Speaking of microstrategy,
that is connected to Bitcoin.
I'm curious to know your
How would you grade them
A plus.
You have.
So whenever you have a
What's the word?
Energetic, you know, quotable,
Right, like sailor.
Memeable.
Right?
Like sailor.
Sort of this once in a
transcends, you know, what you
I make me like I'm making
Like there is no second best,
to reach the, you know, the
memeing you and then to reach,
to, you know, Microsoft and
and to speak to all the large
you know, in the world, that.
That's pretty freaking crazy.
You know, you think about
I think the lesson there is
If you're a spokesperson and
your ideas in a way that are
on the edge of their seat.
So I want with this guy's
going to be really easy going.
I know you asked about their
have a good spokesperson like
and it's kind of catching on.
That's all it really takes.
So when it comes to the small
podcast right now, or maybe a
else listening to this
Beyond reaching out to you at
to outsource some of this
you recommend for them to do
on this moment as we head into
pretty impressive bull run in
So another fantastic question.
The one thing that you cannot
love to talk about price, right?
Especially broadcast media.
You're only going to get onto
about price.
They're going to ask you what
Okay.
You don't need to have an answer.
That's a joke.
You don't need to have an
in one hour.
But you don't need to know that.
But you need to know how to
talk about your longer term
It's not fun.
We don't want to talk about that.
We know it's going up forever
actually, probably more than
is today, like start get, just
or community updates on that
Make a long list of those
up.
I don't care how non
put it on there huge master list.
Put a tentative date, even if
revisit that and try to plan
setting a hard date and time
to be able to do that.
And then even if it's just,
don't want to, you know, spend
reporters it could be relevant for.
You can pitch, you know,
news, you can pitch some of
well and you know, it might
you know, get, get some coverage.
Can't guarantee it but it, you
you know, in the bull market
Start practicing social listening.
Find reporters, right, that
the area that you want to like
If it's cybersecurity, right?
If you're like a hardware
we custody Bitcoin, but it's
you know, then branch out.
Think about cybersecurity.
Find those reporters that you
with.
Follow them on X set notifications.
When they tweet something,
right?
Make that a habit.
Price movement, like if you
price, you know, put together,
CEO, right?
But find the guy in the
about price.
Get him to write a few
use it yourself.
You can attribute it to yourself.
If that person's okay with
spotlight.
Send that off to the reporters
They want that, they want
what it means for the industry.
What it means for your business.
So, you know, talk about the
and what it means for other
Start writing, right?
So start writing editorial
where you're not talking about
right?
Any kind of post that you,
a hot take.
You could probably turn that
If you really thought about it.
Put some meat on the bones.
You can, you can do that.
You can either just start
but crypto outlets, you know,
a lot of outlets out there
editorial content.
And you can be building your
So that's what I would say.
I would say get a hold of your
so you can plan ahead of it.
Do you know, start listening
you want to make connections with.
Be proactive in trying to
putting yourself out there as
And start writing content and
And I think if you can do
with it every week, one or two
be successful.
Great.
And Phil, where can people go
interested in that for either
Well, you can go to
email me at
21mcoms.
You can find me there.
Nostr on there as well.
And I hope you do reach out.
Even if you're not, I would
to, you know, invest in media,
I'm happy to answer any
because when bitcoin companies
So we're in this together.
And I just can't believe that
right now and really harness
The future is really bright indeed.
Well, Phil, thank you so much
It's been a pleasure, Josh,
Thanks so much for having me.
Well, friends, it's a wrap.
Thanks so much for listening
show.
If you want to reach out to
links down in the show notes
when you're ready to take your
As always, keep building, keep
living and leading well.