The healthcare data landscape
It's a honeypot, basically.
Right?
And that data is hacked and
Some of it might be de
at the same time you're giving
a lot of your privacy.
And look, not everybody's
And we recognize that too.
Maybe there's some other
you want to track, but you
don't want to necessarily have
But you want to track your
get your labs done.
And right now you're going to
You know, those labs that were done.
There isn't a great way to
it over time, and then maybe
going down different health
And more of an alternative
seen for bitcoiners.
And that self discovery
and create a forum for those
connect with providers
people's health challenges as
they want to share.
Or you can do it in an
Welcome to the Business
to helping you enrich your
bitcoin, the hardest money on
I'm your host, Josh Friedman
who's the co founder of NOS
of of their health data.
We're going to get to our
John, welcome to the podcast.
Thanks for having me, Josh.
Excited to be here.
So I like to start off every
that help us to get to know
us some insight for our own lives.
Are you ready for these?
Let's do it.
Question number one is this.
When and how did you first
Heard about it at first in
say 2020 Saylor starts buying.
We're four years later now
at 2% of the Bitcoin supply.
But really it was the, the
lot of deeper introspection
is money?
Getting married, working
you know, hey, how are we
along the sovereign individual
to the bitcoin journey.
And I have to ask, you
just recently getting 2% of
Have you been interested in
I know that some people are
Other people have said, hey, I
well.
So where did you fall in those
You know, I'd say bitcoin
a little micro strategy to
money in certain accounts that
But there's tools out there
money into Bitcoin and hold in
that.
But if there are other
seeing the gains from
pretty terrific.
And they've kind of found a
So not going and running off
but I think it's still, now
Q.
As well.
Just got announced, there's
there.
So exciting to see.
Question number two.
What's an insight or fact
understood?
I would say that no one is in charge.
Rules without rulers is
of bitcoin and how important
as we're seeing in some recent
and that it can't be changed
I think that aspect, when
they're very hesitant because
be more than 21 million
But no, there's not.
We're not going to devalue our
in.
So I think that aspect of
as well as being a property of
Question three, what's the
to other people?
I'd say the seventh property
Speaking about monetary
way to get the download on the
works.
And then enough of the
in one place.
And I would definitely also
by Parker Lewis and also Nick
is a great way to stay up to
Question number four Beyond
or idea that's been helpful to
I'd say I started to get
but really integrating into
So I think it just continuing
tools that are being developed.
We're going to see a lot of
both from an energy
from the idea that AIs will
more so than than fiat money.
So more of those tools,
continue to be important.
We have our final question.
Since you're a repeat guest,
bit.
What is the part of the
down most recently?
I would say node running and
I've been running a node for a
recently, had a friend from
huge for me and digging in SSH
the index, getting things back
node that I hadn't really had
Even in land managing
more core to that.
So yeah, shout out to Topher
Well John, we're here today to
Before that, listeners may
you from a conversation I
about your business Satoshi
Now you've just become a co
which I'm going to be learning
this conversation today.
But first of all could you
Satoshi Health Advisors and
the last six or seven months?
Yeah, absolutely.
It's been a great pleasure,
the show.
That led to some great
with a variety of different
a bitcoin strategy.
With my background in the
on direct primary care
even yogis and helping them
accept bitcoin payments, save
and then marketing and finding
And so that's it's been great
at Jones Pierce, even on the
how bitcoin is going to impact
really for low time preference.
Others like Dr.
Roger Mosagemba out of San
at Teladoc very early on to
and now willing to take the
And I think it's really seeing
e commerce platforms to as my
But really the bitcoiners that
fact that there are businesses
if it's from a savings and
a few more years or from just
transactions.
But ultimately it's finding
And even for myself, getting
I'll add a fiat premium into
me because I think that also
hey, this is what my customers
How do I go and educate them
with Stryker river or how do
me or how do I get my rewards
in bitcoin?
I think that part has been
So now you have nos fabrica as well.
And my understanding is you're
records.
Could you tell us a little bit
business which is still very
stages of development.
But also what are some of the
Yeah, absolutely.
Nos fabrica means our factory
So we want to build healthcare
ecosystem on NOSTR and Bitcoin.
And with Nostr you have the
problem which is very rampant
I don't know if you know this,
data was hacked last year.
So your data is floating
your consent and whether you
And so with these very fragile
healthcare data, whenever
procedure done, you're not
Maybe you can get a PDF file
And there's a ton of
of even being a new person.
Every new doctor's office or
within the same insurance system.
Having worked in Medicaid
if you were, had a commercial
same company doing both
completely new person and that
Now look at the whole health
constantly fill out and share
and over again.
Where a quarter of the four
in spend in healthcare is
waste.
So we think by giving people
have more sovereignty over our
responsibility for our health
in navigating the healthcare
platform.
Right.
So we're building a Salud
protocol.
There's a team as well
But our hope is to really
to healthcare to healthcare providers.
No matter where you are being
for value and have an
and there was a lot of hype
once Bitcoin was making more headways.
In 2017, kind of the whole
They said, oh, we're going to
But what we found is, and I
only great use case of a
And you have a cap on the data
For any other blockchain
Bitcoin.
And so with Nostr you have
is your public private key.
And that private key can be
web of trust is all at the
different applications on top
So we could potentially have a
or marketplaces to connect
tools where you don't have to
time and you actually have
data that you do need to share
In time, you want to share
one, or you want to store
So I think that really it's a,
now where there are a lot of
care that are being developed
plug into epic's walled garden.
Right.
We have big centralized
in this country already, but
they'll be moving from to
This is the case in El
Or maybe we can just skip that
now you have sovereignty over
host of different tools that
And you can always run your
And so I think the paradigm
Whereas the focus right now is
doctors or hospitals and the
and your provider.
And as a patient, you're left
You're not the focus of that conversation.
So building tools really for
of their health is going to be
I think it's really
some people might just
that we've experienced here in
to using NOSTR or something
control.
It certainly makes me think
just everyone was using cell
landlines.
And it's just really
we develop technologies, some
of technology and just go to
is really encouraging.
One of the things that you
a lot of things that are
One of the things that you
were talking about putting
and how you said that's
So for people that don't care
or don't really think about
be a topic that they're aware
listening to this who might be
might still think that
data.
So could you talk a little bit
as much sense for something
Yeah, absolutely.
So with a blockchain you have
nodes or validators.
However you're going to do
of them now, other than
Right.
Are the people with the money
But you also have to be synced
for an open ledger of who has
That's really important.
But for healthcare you don't
else's information.
Right.
And that's where I think NOSTR
to the relays you want to
We'll be running our HIPAA
And privacy is also super, has
the US as well as other places.
But you don't necessarily,
need to know what's going on
relays if that's not relevant
So you can kind of plug into
web of trust.
And if you think about it
And so tapping into the social
have, you know, the idea of
in a blockchain is the right start.
But we have an even better way
nostr.
That doesn't need a token that
We already have money, which
Right.
For value, for value interactions.
And now you can decide where
selective disclosure of that
And so there's even, I think,
potential blockchains that are
This is going to be more
And so it's taking some of
But most of the projects that
blockchain and healthcare come
you know, other crypto there
And I just don't think that's
So when I started really
over the last two plus years,
apply this to healthcare.
And I connected with now one
who's the creator of Amethyst,
And so we have a nip, a NOSTR
store medical data on nostr.
And there are international
It's called FHIR HL7, so we're
NOSTR events can be pretty
a lot of tooling and
as well.
This is all open source too,
But for example, how are we
and heavier types of data
capabilities issues on a
more flexibility in terms of
but ultimately having a
that data.
This is something I should
But as you're describing all
rays on nostr, where is that
What is that like?
Is it one database that all
So it very much depends.
It's very fragmented in
place.
And even if you go to one
different outpatient center,
get that X ray sent to the
You might have to go in and
hospital to go get your X ray.
So the healthcare data
it is hosted on a variety of
servers, on electronic medical
And many people end up.
It's a honey pot basically.
Right?
And that data is hacked and
Some of it might be de
at the same time you're giving
a lot of your privacy.
And look, not everybody's
that too.
But I think for our
be even nomadic or traveling
healthcare today, but you
some other aspects of your
track, but you don't want it
to necessarily have that be
But you want to track your
get your labs done, and right
a PDF of that.
You know, those labs that were done.
There isn't a great way to
it over time and then maybe
Going down different health
of an alternative health
for Bitcoiners.
And that self discovery
and create a forum for those
connect with providers
people's health challenges as
they want to share or you can
And NOSTR provides all that
already, you know, baked in
health applications and we're
it.
You know, we're going to
and builders and providers
and then Satoshi Health
and providers that are burnt
And we know how expensive it
So we can build the tooling
providers that want to operate
still provide great value and
One of the things that you
lot of people don't care too
And I think that there's a lot
I think if you ask someone, do
They'll say yes.
But in practice, a lot of
as much maybe as they should.
But one thing that I think is
would care about is making
the doctors you're working
else it might be, you have the
your medical history that they
with you, you can make the
And that's, that's the reason
Because if it's centralized
a few different places, yes,
But also your doctor may not
she needs about you when
So I think it's, I think it
bring your entire medical
you need to or whatever's
Yeah, absolutely.
That you, you hit it spot on.
Whether it's an emergency
country or you're just going
It can be very difficult for
information.
And it can be a big burden
to keep track and have all
and labs.
And it ends up being leading
oh, let's just do another
radiation that's unnecessary
we did a few weeks ago.
So a lot of the waste and
much incentivized through a
is also driven through just
Hospitals also delete records
So if you actually wanted to
1 diabetes or something else
a kid or younger and you want
understand your own health
to find that data might not
after a certain point because
forever.
And so this can be a way
we're putting out there really
ansalud to have an open source
challenge.
So in 2025 we're actually
week and have a bit of a
that.
But the goal is to build open
improve health, address
access, data portability and
So we think by working on the
medical data, here's how we
sovereign way for the
those providers, for example,
relay, or you can write data
health apps, connecting the
we can unlock some, I think
certainly encountered in my
healthcare and Bitcoin and
people into that challenge and
whole host of people,
anyone that's just focused on
we can start to move more of
that data stored in a
So I still have more questions
up, how can people get
interesting to them or if
of someone that might be a
Yeah, definitely.
You can reach out to, reach
we'll have more info on the
We're also posting from
involved for the challenges
Those, those calls are going
9, or that, that week.
We'll have a form, an interest
So you can fill that out.
Let us know, you know, what
are you interested in?
Where are you coming from, you
over this.
While the challenges are big
there are also other
the world that we think this
Where there isn't access to
for example, and you're not
So there's more and more tools
we want to take with this.
And then I'm also doing
So we're kind of as we do our
My other co founder is Avi Bura.
He's coming from United
news lately.
But they were hacked earlier
A lot of data was stolen.
A lot of work.
And so that's just another
But so between the three of
both from a product technical
And we're figuring out and
in your health, what are the
in your health?
How are you tracking your
time?
Are you using any tools today?
You concern with privacy.
So these are types of
with individuals.
So definitely feel free to
John usfabrica.com and we'll
But we love, you know, we
you know, bitcoin, now that
for 15, 16 years now.
A lot of the mining markets
we see with the ETFs and
of that industry is entrenched
Right.
Five, six, seven, eight years.
But I think with the
early with bitcoin adoption
of new technology.
And even if that's just cash
could be converted to Bitcoin
direct primary care that lend
The healthcare Data space is
So out of that market there's
from a bitcoiner perspective
So we think it's a big
greenfield approach where
where do you want to store
How can we build better ux,
help people, encourage them to
And as we know, a lot of the
CDC or HHS or other aspects
years and people are starting
the FDA and testing out
that can really help address
You might need a partner on
And so healthcare providers,
whether a naturopath or
boxed out of the healthcare
can find a voice and find
and having that social
ultimately where there is a
boom, we have Bitcoin and we
those types of interactions
lives.
So you've made a good case for
end user.
But I'm curious to know why
would want to use this.
And the reason that I ask is
for the consumer is not always
And I would say that you and I
beginning to trend in a better
But what would be the benefit
would get from using Nos Fabrica?
Do they have enough incentive
There are many tools now that
space for providers, but many
on larger practices, bigger
for example.
Even in the outpatient space,
in M and A and centralization
And the legacy health tech has
is a challenge.
And the tools are not really
even having an electronic
use, having patient
to use.
So I've actually been working
Increasing efficiency and
of different ways.
And a lot of that's included
out there and what our
And there's definitely a gap
independent practitioners to
from a scheduling perspective,
And so the benefit of NOSTR
can build with NUSfabrica is
of ownership on the data.
Right.
It's ultimately the
write access, right?
The patient will say, yes, you
And then they can have access
Kind of solving that challenge
went to another hospital or
have a good relationship with
and I don't know what, how did
medications that you're on and
from the patient or maybe they
versus oh, they could tap in
me from your own relay.
I can write other information there.
And we're kind of all up to
So our goal is definitely to
for both the providers and
from a key management
these tools really are built
Not for a solo practitioner,
different modalities.
So we have already a micro app.
We see a lot of micro apps as
applications, but one is
So it's a way for eye doctors
right.
So all they need is your NPUB
data, boom, it gets sent right
Right now it'll already render
but we'll want to have a
here's my vision, here are my
A way for you to kind of have
had that ability for at least
You have a sign note from the
store to buy your glasses, right?
So creating more of those kind
all you need in the form.
Today it's either a printed
manual in a lot of ways.
So moving more to an
signed process too where yeah
profile, build up attestations
those components of web of
where am I going?
Where should I go get care,
a word of mouth is a big way
business.
And so I think the Nostr
weekly active users, there
And not everybody wants to use
to use a health app or maybe
app or a music app or book
bring your same profile with you.
Say you wanted a different
and public private key.
So we think there's a lot of
where we don't think we can,
we want to have this ecosystem
developers working in open source.
We have a lot of great Bitcoin
can build more health focused
Lightning and Bitcoin, but
be facing.
So that leads me to my final question.
I think you briefly addressed
ago.
But when it comes to your
you foresee this being
but a part of your primary
Or do you see a future where
or you know, private public
Does that make sense?
Yeah, definitely.
I think, I think the beauty of
You know, if there's certain
want to keep private, you
key.
You can definitely spin up
for health reasons.
I think many people may go
But I think to start and until
management tools that are
and using between web
iPhone and Android, it'll
and I think that's just from
the most streamlined.
But that's another key piece
and how Are people going to
This is new.
And also if maybe you lose
That's where having those
to be a degree of trust.
Maybe it's written as a backup
we're hosting your relay and
tooling there that will play
model perspective, but also
how they want to store this data.
You can always run your own relay.
Take this yourself.
And that paradigm shift from
you're actually paying them to
and we think that's just
where we're in control of our
the best free and open source
are.
Well John, I appreciate you
If there are any final
share those as well as remind
want to get involved with Nos Fabrica.
I'm excited about the future
users.
That's what we need more of.
So Bitcoin enables.
That's what NOSTR enables and
Awesome.
Thanks so much Josh.
Always a pleasure being on.
Love your interviews and
aspects of the Bitcoin and now
So yeah, feel free to reach
on noster nos fabrica.com to
getting involved and then
If you have any interest in
your business, love to chat.
Walking all sorts of
knowing can be different for
But we're all hopping onto
open and decentralized.
So happy to help you along
Great.
John, thank you so much for
It's been a pleasure.
Thanks Josh.
Take care.
Well friends is a wrap.
Thanks so much for listening
Show.
If you want to reach out to
links down in the show notes.
And if you're interested in
of Nos Fabrica, definitely do
Keep building, keep growing.
Until next time, keep living