1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,320 Carlos and Allie, welcome to the show. 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:03,200 Thanks for having us. 3 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:03,460 Thank you, Marty. 4 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:10,020 I'm happy to be speaking with you guys because it's a budding theme on this show. 5 00:00:10,120 --> 00:00:11,620 A very small theme, but a budding one. 6 00:00:11,620 --> 00:00:19,760 And one that excites me because I think it's a signal that Bitcoin is breaking out of the bubbles, 7 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:24,780 the community bubbles that have existed in my 12 years following. 8 00:00:24,780 --> 00:00:41,780 It seems that what you guys are doing at Forger really validates Bitcoin being used as a tool by anybody, not just cypherpunks or people that care about sound money, but what you guys are doing at Forger in the world of entertainment. 9 00:00:41,780 --> 00:00:52,760 And Carlos, we were just talking before we hit record that you heard my discussion with Johnny Vance from Total Twins in Angel Studio and reached out. 10 00:00:52,760 --> 00:01:20,140 And as I was also telling you, I have a friend, a very close friend, and we've been talking about this idea quite a bit, the intersection of Bitcoin and entertainment in an attempt to get better art into the world and let smaller artists, content creators, whatever you want to define them as, get their work into the world and actually give them a chance to compete with the mega studios of the world. 11 00:01:20,140 --> 00:01:38,060 So before we jump into the broader discussion of this intersection, why don't we start with a couple introductions, just how you guys got to where you are, what you're doing at Forager and what got you to thinking about Bitcoin specifically. 12 00:01:38,060 --> 00:01:48,040 will work um carl so i can give my intro and i'll let you take it um so i went to film school 13 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:55,960 i majored in screenwriting and then i found my way to new york i landed in advertising so it was not 14 00:01:55,960 --> 00:02:00,080 where i expected to be after film school you know right out of film school i'm thinking okay i'm 15 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:05,400 gonna go i'm gonna work for a studio i'm gonna be on set i'm gonna you know live the dream and 16 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:26,500 And I found that being on set and everything that I had imagined about filmmaking, once I did get my feet wet into some live action production for commercials, was not super aligned with the way that I prefer to live my life and to structure my life. 17 00:02:26,500 --> 00:02:38,180 I'm very routine oriented and I really enjoyed how, how the tech side of post-production was 18 00:02:38,180 --> 00:02:43,340 evolving and could make so many more things possible than, you know, just what it is captured 19 00:02:43,340 --> 00:02:48,760 on set. Now, so much respect for what happens on set. I just was not of that same, you know, 20 00:02:48,820 --> 00:02:55,500 mindset and stamina to be working those kinds of hours. And so I found my way into the post-production 21 00:02:55,500 --> 00:03:01,760 side of advertising and worked as an EP at a couple of different post houses. And along the 22 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:09,940 way, I met Carlos. And we decided to start Forager together after working together for some time. And 23 00:03:09,940 --> 00:03:16,420 I was getting ready to move into the freelance world, which he had been occupying for his entire 24 00:03:16,420 --> 00:03:22,460 career up until that point before moving from New York to Portland. So that was what 25 00:03:22,460 --> 00:03:29,680 gave the idea to start Forager as a remote collective of post-production artists. 26 00:03:30,460 --> 00:03:38,380 We saw at the time that there was a real need to give a platform for individuals in the post space 27 00:03:38,380 --> 00:03:44,720 who were not represented by legacy posthouses for any number of reasons. They enjoyed being 28 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,980 freelance, they liked the autonomy, having their own brand, and they just needed that 29 00:03:48,980 --> 00:03:54,060 production support which i could bring um to the team and which we've built alongside the producers 30 00:03:54,060 --> 00:04:01,920 at forager along the way um and different already different tech was available to us at that time 31 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,760 at like slack and and frame io that made it possible to collaborate in real time from 32 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:12,300 anywhere um so we launched forager with this unique perspective on bringing together 33 00:04:12,300 --> 00:04:15,560 the best talent, no matter where they were located. 34 00:04:16,300 --> 00:04:23,940 So we're pioneers in that sense because it was still different to say that we didn't have 35 00:04:23,940 --> 00:04:29,560 a brick and mortar place to go to for clients to go to to supervise. 36 00:04:30,340 --> 00:04:32,320 And then that was January 2019. 37 00:04:32,780 --> 00:04:36,400 A year later, it became the norm during COVID for everyone to work remotely. 38 00:04:36,820 --> 00:04:38,720 So we're a little bit ahead of the game there. 39 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:48,100 And we've taken everything we've learned from building this network of great creatives. 40 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:55,940 And Carlos will give his intro on how we started building Bitcoin into the picture as well along the way. 41 00:04:57,140 --> 00:04:57,820 Yeah. 42 00:04:58,860 --> 00:05:02,040 Yeah, essentially, exactly what Ali said. 43 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:15,680 I think Bitcoins surprisingly entered our radar very early on, almost by chance, because we started the company in 2019, the pandemic in 2020. 44 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:20,220 And we were down, of course, as everyone else for a little bit. 45 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:29,840 And at that moment, I was starting to just research, you know, what stocks to buy, like every person back then. 46 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:36,060 and I stumbled upon Bitcoin at the moment just from like an interview that I saw on YouTube. 47 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:43,380 And yeah, I bought it personally, not knowing much, just kind of like bought it personally as an opportunity. 48 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:49,140 Ali and I are good friends, so I talked Ali into buying some personally as well. 49 00:05:50,540 --> 00:05:53,180 And we were so small and informal. 50 00:05:53,180 --> 00:05:58,100 We were like, you know, why not buy it and put it on Forager's balance sheet? 51 00:05:58,100 --> 00:06:04,100 And this was before even a sailor had appeared on X. 52 00:06:04,100 --> 00:06:07,100 It was like, I think June, 2020, when we first bought. 53 00:06:07,100 --> 00:06:10,100 And we were small. We just bought, I think, one to begin with. 54 00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:15,100 And yeah, then we saw the whole strategy thing happening. 55 00:06:15,100 --> 00:06:18,100 We were like, oh, this is going to be a thing. 56 00:06:18,100 --> 00:06:21,100 So we started buying more. 57 00:06:21,100 --> 00:06:23,100 Still a humble treasury. 58 00:06:23,100 --> 00:06:27,100 But yeah, of course, we rode the whole thing up to the 60K. 59 00:06:27,100 --> 00:06:33,040 60K, then we felt a little silly when it went all the way down in the bear market. 60 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,860 But that was kind of like our introduction to Bitcoin. 61 00:06:36,860 --> 00:06:40,960 We were buying it almost naively at first, not knowing much. 62 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,600 But then you see this thing going up. 63 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,620 We learned what it was. 64 00:06:44,620 --> 00:06:47,620 We got orange filled in the process. 65 00:06:47,620 --> 00:06:51,240 And we thankfully held it for this whole time. 66 00:06:51,240 --> 00:07:00,140 It was only earlier this year where we were dealing with some liquidity crunches that we were like, you know, we have built this treasury. 67 00:07:00,580 --> 00:07:02,120 We want to maintain it. 68 00:07:02,420 --> 00:07:13,540 And we thought, what if we were to leverage that treasury in order to raise some funds so we can survive and get through this rocky period? 69 00:07:14,140 --> 00:07:15,440 And so we did that. 70 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:20,560 but we also announced to the world, you know, like we are proud Bitcoin holders and we, 71 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:27,000 we have a mandate now of holding this Bitcoin treasury and, uh, and growing it. Uh, and, 72 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:33,300 and that's on the four year side and eventually comes the film studio part, which is like our 73 00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:41,640 next chapter. Yeah. No, it's funny. This is a bit of worlds colliding for me because my wife, 74 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:47,900 she actually, she did post-production for McCann Erickson for, I think, 12 years. 75 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,960 And she was on the Microsoft account. 76 00:07:51,820 --> 00:07:54,800 And Ali, as you were describing those long nights in post-prod, 77 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,520 I mean, there was weekends where she'd be working until 2 a.m. every night. 78 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:03,100 And I think her team specifically did localization for global campaigns. 79 00:08:03,340 --> 00:08:03,820 Yes. 80 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:10,380 So her coming home after those long nights, just describing, 81 00:08:10,380 --> 00:08:11,740 I was like, what do you guys do? 82 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:18,480 It's like we just sit in a room and rewatch the commercial about a thousand times and try to nitpick and make sure everything's compliant. 83 00:08:19,020 --> 00:08:31,480 I learned a lot about post-production basically from doing localization initially because, yeah, you have to really understand all the files that you need to update the graphics, the voiceover. 84 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:38,840 I had some really late calls trying to get voiceover from the team in China, those sorts of things. 85 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,040 So yeah, it's very technical. 86 00:08:41,420 --> 00:08:43,020 You do watch the same thing over and over again, 87 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,640 but you get the detail-oriented part of it 88 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:48,440 and why it's so important. 89 00:08:49,020 --> 00:08:50,600 And there's like funny intricacies 90 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,080 like France or South Korea, I forget. 91 00:08:52,220 --> 00:08:54,980 You can't have electronics in the same still as water 92 00:08:54,980 --> 00:08:56,420 or something like that. 93 00:08:56,780 --> 00:08:58,720 Right, you do learn a lot about 94 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,480 what plays in different markets. 95 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:01,800 Yeah, what is and isn't allowed. 96 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,080 Yeah, so not to say that post-production 97 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:05,260 doesn't have late nights. 98 00:09:05,500 --> 00:09:06,880 It certainly does. 99 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,720 but it can be a little 100 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,460 little different still 101 00:09:11,460 --> 00:09:13,260 and how much you can 102 00:09:13,260 --> 00:09:15,580 control the different factors I feel like 103 00:09:15,580 --> 00:09:17,700 yeah but like tying this into 104 00:09:17,700 --> 00:09:19,600 what your initiative is now 105 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,420 like she ran the she was on the Microsoft account 106 00:09:21,420 --> 00:09:23,440 for I think five or six years 107 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,200 and 108 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,660 I got somewhat I got like an arm's 109 00:09:27,660 --> 00:09:29,400 length perspective of just like 110 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,700 the world of like big corporate sort of 111 00:09:31,700 --> 00:09:33,520 ad spend and like how much 112 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,520 money they were putting into it and what was actually 113 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:41,340 being produced and they put together great commercials um but it was always insane to me 114 00:09:41,340 --> 00:09:46,700 like how much they were spending on all this and uh when you think of trying to compete with that 115 00:09:46,700 --> 00:09:54,280 it becomes becomes hard and in this post-covid world that you guys described it seems like it's 116 00:09:54,280 --> 00:10:00,640 becoming easier but you just need to combine a bunch of tools and creative thinkers to to really 117 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:05,940 be the upstart competitor with these behemoths, whether it's in the corporate world doing 118 00:10:05,940 --> 00:10:12,880 advertisements or, um, in the film world with the major studios. Um, and so I think that's 119 00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:21,300 a good jumping off point for the white paper, uh, for white paper, uh, the studio and how you guys 120 00:10:21,300 --> 00:10:29,940 are thinking of basically arming indie creators with the financial, um, tools to, to make sure 121 00:10:29,940 --> 00:10:31,360 that they can get their art out into the world. 122 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:34,840 Yeah. 123 00:10:37,100 --> 00:10:39,000 So, like you said, 124 00:10:39,100 --> 00:10:40,800 from all that we've learned 125 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,940 competing with these big companies 126 00:10:42,940 --> 00:10:43,800 and holding our own 127 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:44,960 because we could see that 128 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:46,620 we needed to be nimble. 129 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:48,100 And that really is the name of the game, 130 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,000 especially with how quickly 131 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,360 things like AI are moving. 132 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:55,000 Every week, it seems like 133 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:55,960 there's a new development 134 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:57,080 and something that is 135 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,400 making the expectation 136 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,740 that you should be moving faster and doing things cheaper. 137 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,060 That is affecting every part of filmmaking. 138 00:11:08,860 --> 00:11:13,080 And as we've seen through putting Bitcoin on our balance sheet for a germ, 139 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:20,140 it is the one thing that's actually preserving our hard work in the long run. 140 00:11:20,900 --> 00:11:26,240 And when we realized we could have a model to help filmmakers with this, 141 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:42,780 Because we still need great films that are telling human stories that are made by people with people and not just leaning into AI to make things faster and cheaper because there just isn't any, there isn't the same amount of funding available anymore. 142 00:11:42,780 --> 00:11:50,820 let's incorporate the tech and the tool that is bitcoin to preserve those efforts and like carla 143 00:11:50,820 --> 00:11:57,620 said and you know we've talked about more separating the investment from the art to a 144 00:11:57,620 --> 00:12:04,740 degree you know bringing in a whole another set of investors who are interested in the returns that 145 00:12:04,740 --> 00:12:10,360 can be offered from our model and and not just waiting for a film to make money of course the 146 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:17,640 the hope for everyone is that the film will sell and be seen and and generate returns um but you 147 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:26,340 know let's lean into the the bitcoin backing to bring in more money and then we can use the 148 00:12:26,340 --> 00:12:31,080 returns from a sale of a film to reinvest in the company and back more films and continue this cycle 149 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:38,740 and continue to invest in our stories and our people and not just um participate in a race to 150 00:12:38,740 --> 00:12:46,860 the bottom which is what we were feeling we were becoming a part of yeah so i do want to touch on 151 00:12:46,860 --> 00:12:54,260 the ai stuff we can do that later but i think just digging into the problem that indie filmmakers have 152 00:12:54,260 --> 00:13:01,900 right now let's sort of paint that landscape for for the audience what like when we're the biggest 153 00:13:01,900 --> 00:13:08,320 pain points that indie filmmakers run into i imagine capital is one of them but um like what 154 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:15,240 how hard is it for them to compete i guess is the question um yeah i mean i guess as a first 155 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:24,720 step for context uh i think film is perhaps one of the riskiest business you can get into as an 156 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:30,860 investor in the sense that uh you can have a great recipe for success with like a great script and 157 00:13:30,860 --> 00:13:36,840 great talent and a great director and the movie can still flop like you can still get no traction 158 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:42,900 so of course there's a lot of pressure on the on the investing side uh and i think you touched 159 00:13:42,900 --> 00:13:51,360 upon a little bit on on the episode with johnny but yes like uh especially in in slower times uh 160 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:58,900 i think hollywood and even the streaming networks they're betting on safer projects uh there's a lot 161 00:13:58,900 --> 00:14:07,580 more bet on sequels and spin-offs and just any project that will guarantee some sort of 162 00:14:07,580 --> 00:14:10,360 success or return for the investor. 163 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:36,433 So of course that leaves artists with original ideas and riskier projects that have no track record of financial success at the bottom of the list And we think that betting on great talent and original ideas is a winning formula but 164 00:14:36,433 --> 00:14:41,173 you have to give it time and you have to experiment and try. 165 00:14:41,173 --> 00:14:54,072 and I think there are not many companies betting on that kind of raw story or film at the moment. 166 00:14:55,692 --> 00:15:00,612 We really like, for example, A24, what they did, especially in the early days. 167 00:15:01,173 --> 00:15:06,353 They were thinking very long term, betting small amounts of money, 168 00:15:06,353 --> 00:15:10,872 but on really risky projects, just trying to build the IP for the future. 169 00:15:11,173 --> 00:15:16,433 And I think they were very successful at it and they built a brand around it and even a cult following. 170 00:15:18,513 --> 00:15:27,933 But of course, as you grow and you become more established, that kind of risk taking can only last for so long. 171 00:15:28,613 --> 00:15:37,053 And of course, they had to take investor money in the last, I forget when it was that they took like a big round of private investment. 172 00:15:37,973 --> 00:15:39,853 And of course, that changes the recipe, right? 173 00:15:39,853 --> 00:15:47,853 Like they now you have people depending on you to make your numbers and and that affects ultimately the artist. 174 00:15:48,053 --> 00:15:51,293 Right. Like there's less funds going around for new. 175 00:15:53,173 --> 00:15:54,913 Risky, original IP. 176 00:15:56,572 --> 00:16:02,053 So that's kind of like the biggest problem that we set out to to solve with this. 177 00:16:02,633 --> 00:16:04,733 Ali, I don't know if I missed something. 178 00:16:05,553 --> 00:16:09,613 No, bottom line, I do think the biggest issue is access to capital. 179 00:16:09,853 --> 00:16:19,273 and the reason why is you know multifaceted but if you're talking smaller than a24 180 00:16:19,273 --> 00:16:27,233 it's finding those investors and i know that a lot of our independent artists are relying on 181 00:16:27,233 --> 00:16:34,533 angel investors friends family kickstarter you know it takes a lot to bring together a production 182 00:16:34,533 --> 00:16:42,673 and there's often no guarantee that the investors are going to to make their money back and this is 183 00:16:42,673 --> 00:16:49,013 how people have to start you know you got to start somewhere i think very few get into the 184 00:16:49,013 --> 00:16:54,692 industry right away with name recognition and a lot of backing and investors who know for sure 185 00:16:54,692 --> 00:17:00,173 they're making their money back so um along with the other challenges in this industry 186 00:17:00,173 --> 00:17:10,313 um i see this contributing to a diminishing amount of available funding for original ideas 187 00:17:10,313 --> 00:17:19,193 like i said it it does feel like a race to the bottom and um we just we've like said we've only 188 00:17:19,193 --> 00:17:25,873 seen bitcoin preserve our you know the value that we brought to our clients and our companies 189 00:17:25,873 --> 00:17:39,193 So let's bring that, you know, make it available to independent artists. But also, it's not just about, you know, convincing people to invest in Bitcoin, because most people still obviously do not feel comfortable. 190 00:17:39,193 --> 00:18:01,233 And so let's make this appear as accessible as possible for investors so they can look at it as an alternative to their stocks or, you know, the 401k or whatever might be giving them between 5% and 10%, you know, and they can also contribute to the arts. 191 00:18:01,233 --> 00:18:18,713 Because I do think that there is a large selling point from the conversations I've had of saying, hey, we can preserve original storytelling and potentially beat the hurdle of AI that is coming for all of the films and the content that we're consuming. 192 00:18:19,713 --> 00:18:22,112 And they want to be a part of that. 193 00:18:22,253 --> 00:18:28,092 And it's great that then they can make some money and potentially beat inflation along the way. 194 00:18:28,092 --> 00:18:36,293 and so let's uh let's dive into the mechanics of how you guys are envisioning 195 00:18:36,293 --> 00:18:44,393 bitcoin as a funding mechanism actually work so is white paper just building a big treasury 196 00:18:44,393 --> 00:18:50,653 and using that to fund films or is there intent because when you guys dm me and you sort of 197 00:18:50,653 --> 00:18:57,873 explain the top level of the idea in text i couldn't think of help but think of a company 198 00:18:57,873 --> 00:19:00,932 that we've partnered with at 1031, Battery Finance, 199 00:19:01,092 --> 00:19:04,953 but they're focused on the commercial real estate market 200 00:19:04,953 --> 00:19:06,133 and their credit fund. 201 00:19:06,373 --> 00:19:08,832 So they raise dollars into a credit fund, 202 00:19:09,373 --> 00:19:10,493 underwrite projects, 203 00:19:11,612 --> 00:19:14,592 give them, lend them dollars 204 00:19:14,592 --> 00:19:16,893 with a portion of those dollars, 10 to 20%, 205 00:19:16,893 --> 00:19:20,713 being put in Bitcoin and held within the loan structure 206 00:19:20,713 --> 00:19:22,133 throughout the duration of the loan, 207 00:19:22,252 --> 00:19:25,412 typically 8, 10, 15 years, whatever it may be, 208 00:19:25,412 --> 00:19:32,493 is your model similar in that sense where it's a combination of dollars and bitcoin and 209 00:19:32,493 --> 00:19:36,513 you're sort of underwriting individual products and making sure that they're bolstered 210 00:19:36,513 --> 00:19:45,133 with a mini bitcoin treasury uh yeah essentially we uh we took a lot of inspiration uh from 211 00:19:45,133 --> 00:19:54,412 sailor and also the the original bond that we created ourselves for forager but basically we 212 00:19:54,412 --> 00:20:01,873 let's say that a film needs $50,000 for production, like a short film, 213 00:20:02,293 --> 00:20:05,453 we raise a bigger amount than that. 214 00:20:06,013 --> 00:20:11,213 And a portion of that amount raised goes directly into Bitcoin, 215 00:20:11,813 --> 00:20:14,133 which we use to repay the investor. 216 00:20:15,273 --> 00:20:18,513 And the rest goes directly into production. 217 00:20:19,013 --> 00:20:22,273 But by doing that Bitcoin split investment, 218 00:20:22,273 --> 00:20:30,373 we are able to repay the original loan plus the interest, which is 5% to 10%. 219 00:20:30,373 --> 00:20:37,912 So essentially, yes, we're growing a treasury that allows us to grow more and more. 220 00:20:38,932 --> 00:20:45,752 But then every film financed has a Bitcoin portion attached to it, 221 00:20:46,153 --> 00:20:50,633 and it's running in the back, and its function is to repay the original investor. 222 00:20:50,633 --> 00:20:53,493 and we're not paying the investor in Bitcoin. 223 00:20:53,733 --> 00:20:55,092 We're just paying them in dollars. 224 00:20:56,252 --> 00:20:58,813 And we have a few variations, 225 00:20:59,013 --> 00:21:00,473 but it's between 5% and 10%. 226 00:21:00,473 --> 00:21:05,293 Now, this is not something to make someone rich, 227 00:21:05,352 --> 00:21:06,393 you know, from these bonds, 228 00:21:06,393 --> 00:21:11,393 but it is essentially comparable 229 00:21:12,072 --> 00:21:14,252 to like a high yield savings 230 00:21:14,252 --> 00:21:17,633 or like a treasury bond. 231 00:21:17,633 --> 00:21:21,592 but on the end of it 232 00:21:21,592 --> 00:21:23,713 you not only get your 5-10% 233 00:21:23,713 --> 00:21:25,592 annualized return, you also get to 234 00:21:25,592 --> 00:21:26,493 finance a film 235 00:21:26,493 --> 00:21:29,572 and on the 236 00:21:29,572 --> 00:21:31,553 artist side, we are able 237 00:21:31,553 --> 00:21:33,252 to tell them 238 00:21:33,252 --> 00:21:35,713 we are in 239 00:21:35,713 --> 00:21:37,493 charge of repaying the investor with our 240 00:21:37,493 --> 00:21:39,672 Bitcoin strategy and you guys 241 00:21:39,672 --> 00:21:41,513 can just focus on the art 242 00:21:41,513 --> 00:21:43,592 and you will not hear any notes from 243 00:21:43,592 --> 00:21:45,672 the investors, they have no 244 00:21:45,672 --> 00:21:46,852 say over the creative 245 00:21:46,852 --> 00:21:53,092 uh so that's uh we like that separation because we think that's how like uh great films you know 246 00:21:53,092 --> 00:21:58,432 can be made that's a very important separation right so you guys are sort of acting as the 247 00:21:58,432 --> 00:22:04,513 the how would i describe this um the wall of safety between the artist and the capital 248 00:22:04,513 --> 00:22:10,352 and handling that it makes sense so like i guess from the investor's perspective it's like all right 249 00:22:10,352 --> 00:22:12,993 I'm comfortable doing this because 250 00:22:12,993 --> 00:22:14,233 I have 251 00:22:14,233 --> 00:22:16,233 this, funnily enough, 252 00:22:16,773 --> 00:22:18,393 counterintuitive to most people, but 253 00:22:18,393 --> 00:22:20,633 it has proven to be true historically. 254 00:22:21,332 --> 00:22:22,453 De-risking by 255 00:22:22,453 --> 00:22:23,993 putting a portion of my principle 256 00:22:23,993 --> 00:22:26,393 in the Bitcoin that will be 257 00:22:26,393 --> 00:22:27,873 at least 258 00:22:27,873 --> 00:22:30,133 preserve its bursting power, if not 259 00:22:30,133 --> 00:22:32,513 potentially increase. 260 00:22:33,373 --> 00:22:33,873 And then 261 00:22:33,873 --> 00:22:36,273 they've got a call option on the movie being a massive 262 00:22:36,273 --> 00:22:37,412 success, I imagine, 263 00:22:37,693 --> 00:22:39,233 in getting royalties. 264 00:22:39,233 --> 00:22:46,932 because i imagine they get equity in the films themselves as well so it's funny right now we have 265 00:22:46,932 --> 00:22:51,612 three variations of the product and it's kind of like different for different risk appetites the 266 00:22:51,612 --> 00:23:00,553 the five percent yield one has bitcoin uh securing the loan not the full obligation but the the 267 00:23:00,553 --> 00:23:07,252 capital uh and you get your five percent you know return but if something were to happen 268 00:23:07,252 --> 00:23:10,633 into the company or anything, you know, that Bitcoin is pledged to you. 269 00:23:10,752 --> 00:23:12,092 And that Bitcoin is from our treasury. 270 00:23:13,332 --> 00:23:18,513 We have on the higher risk side, we have the 10% annualized. 271 00:23:19,013 --> 00:23:20,873 And that one has no early redemption. 272 00:23:20,873 --> 00:23:26,572 All these are set to five-year loans so that, you know, we can let Bitcoin appreciate and 273 00:23:26,572 --> 00:23:29,432 we're not liable for all the fluctuations. 274 00:23:30,693 --> 00:23:32,693 So we have those products right now. 275 00:23:32,693 --> 00:23:38,793 And so far, nobody has asked us about equity in the film, surprisingly. 276 00:23:39,633 --> 00:23:42,332 And I think it's also because of our early investors. 277 00:23:44,033 --> 00:23:46,193 They didn't even care so much about the films. 278 00:23:46,313 --> 00:23:49,213 They were just kind of like, oh, I have mutual funds giving me this. 279 00:23:49,953 --> 00:23:53,013 I could just park it here and I get a better yield. 280 00:23:54,273 --> 00:23:55,453 Oh, that's fascinating. 281 00:23:55,453 --> 00:24:00,053 So it is kind of opening doors to capital that would never touch films. 282 00:24:00,053 --> 00:24:06,893 uh but of course i think we have a whole gamma of potential uh people that could you know like 283 00:24:06,893 --> 00:24:13,172 that may also want some yield as you're saying like some kicker from the film yeah is there uh 284 00:24:13,172 --> 00:24:20,553 is this model catching on is anybody in the film industry or just creative industry in general see 285 00:24:20,553 --> 00:24:23,873 what you guys are doing and being like oh this is interesting are they deriding you are they 286 00:24:23,873 --> 00:24:32,653 cheering you on um i would say that the the response has been really positive um no one has 287 00:24:32,653 --> 00:24:37,953 come for us and said what you're doing is crazy and you should stop doing this uh maybe they think 288 00:24:37,953 --> 00:24:45,252 it i wouldn't be surprised but um it's been very positive it might be catching on we don't know 289 00:24:45,252 --> 00:24:50,752 but like you said earlier we're really only aware of angel studios incorporating bitcoin 290 00:24:50,752 --> 00:24:54,053 on the balance sheet in an entertainment company. 291 00:24:54,492 --> 00:24:57,713 We aren't aware of anyone else doing something similar. 292 00:24:57,713 --> 00:25:05,653 I think that it will eventually become part of the strategy for most companies. 293 00:25:06,432 --> 00:25:10,213 And that's a broader conversation, I suppose, on Bitcoin treasury companies. 294 00:25:11,693 --> 00:25:16,873 But as far as we know, we're one of the earlier movers, 295 00:25:16,873 --> 00:25:20,153 and maybe people are waiting to see how it, you know, 296 00:25:20,172 --> 00:25:21,813 what kind of results we get from this. 297 00:25:24,693 --> 00:25:26,352 I mean, that's a good question. 298 00:25:26,373 --> 00:25:28,773 Cause when it comes to like Saylor and his strategy, 299 00:25:30,293 --> 00:25:33,153 just Bitcoiners who've gotten to Bitcoin early, 300 00:25:33,612 --> 00:25:36,293 generally typically takes a bit of time 301 00:25:36,293 --> 00:25:38,793 for their conviction to be validated. 302 00:25:38,793 --> 00:25:43,172 And so like, at what level would you consider 303 00:25:43,172 --> 00:25:45,112 the strategy a success for you guys? 304 00:25:45,112 --> 00:25:52,653 well i think once we have repaid our first loan like we're very new we just launched um 305 00:25:52,653 --> 00:25:58,733 the white paper anyhow what you know forager's been around for six years but um white paper we 306 00:25:58,733 --> 00:26:05,592 just launched a couple months ago and maybe less than that actually so our first two short films 307 00:26:05,592 --> 00:26:10,293 just filmed this last weekend so we're going to head into post-production we'll have something 308 00:26:10,293 --> 00:26:15,092 to share hopefully by the end of the year we'll start submitting to festivals i think in the next 309 00:26:15,092 --> 00:26:24,572 year, we'll really start to see how things are received, how the Bitcoin element is part of the 310 00:26:24,572 --> 00:26:28,553 marketing or not part of the marketing. We're also not pushing that. I'm not trying to say 311 00:26:28,553 --> 00:26:32,592 everyone has to be talking about how it's backed by Bitcoin. I think it's an interesting talking 312 00:26:32,592 --> 00:26:41,492 point personally, obviously, but our artists, we're not asking them to go out and spread the 313 00:26:41,492 --> 00:26:45,832 worried about the Bitcoin backing unless they, you know, want to talk about how it's made it 314 00:26:45,832 --> 00:26:53,492 possible to fund their film. I think in the next year or two, we'll start to see how, you know, 315 00:26:53,572 --> 00:27:01,733 it's changing the way that the industry is funding films. And for us, it'll be a first test of the 316 00:27:01,733 --> 00:27:09,612 model. Yeah. And I also, I think we, right now we're dealing with shorter form projects, but I 317 00:27:09,612 --> 00:27:13,373 I think the goal is to get features soon. 318 00:27:14,213 --> 00:27:26,133 And we think that in theory, as Bitcoin grows exponentially, so will our treasury and we will have even more funds to play with then. 319 00:27:26,133 --> 00:27:44,513 And I think another portion of it is that we do want to make everything public and put kind of like the treasury life, but also how every film, however, film is attached to a Bitcoin back bond online. 320 00:27:44,513 --> 00:27:54,572 And we want to show also the performance of each bond so people can see, oh, this film is being repaid live, you know, like with Bitcoin in the back. 321 00:27:54,572 --> 00:28:00,092 So it's not just, I think it's a new way to measure a film's success. 322 00:28:00,293 --> 00:28:01,373 It's not just box office. 323 00:28:01,612 --> 00:28:04,813 It's not just fees. 324 00:28:07,513 --> 00:28:11,492 Art can be funded with Bitcoin's performance. 325 00:28:12,572 --> 00:28:13,693 Yeah, building in the open. 326 00:28:14,112 --> 00:28:14,733 That's massive. 327 00:28:15,992 --> 00:28:20,813 And so, I mean, on to the very interesting stuff. 328 00:28:20,813 --> 00:28:23,992 What do you think the film industry is lacking right now 329 00:28:23,992 --> 00:28:27,953 in terms of types of movies that are being made, 330 00:28:28,852 --> 00:28:31,393 themes that are avoided, 331 00:28:31,672 --> 00:28:32,953 stories that aren't being told, 332 00:28:33,213 --> 00:28:35,973 that you guys are excited to back? 333 00:28:39,373 --> 00:28:51,165 That a really good question I say this I add this just for some context because my wife and I and our brother and sister 334 00:28:51,165 --> 00:28:53,205 in law we were having a conversation a couple weeks ago 335 00:28:53,205 --> 00:28:54,365 over dinner 336 00:28:54,365 --> 00:28:56,925 all four of us have 337 00:28:56,925 --> 00:28:58,985 young children between us four 338 00:28:58,985 --> 00:29:01,125 soon to be five under the age 339 00:29:01,125 --> 00:29:03,085 of ten and we were 340 00:29:03,085 --> 00:29:05,045 sort of complaining to 341 00:29:05,045 --> 00:29:06,465 each other that there's no 342 00:29:06,465 --> 00:29:08,025 children's movies 343 00:29:08,025 --> 00:29:10,505 these days that actually have 344 00:29:10,505 --> 00:29:12,685 like real people. 345 00:29:12,845 --> 00:29:14,565 It's all like animated stuff. 346 00:29:14,565 --> 00:29:16,925 And we were reminiscing about 347 00:29:16,925 --> 00:29:18,825 the 90s movies 348 00:29:18,825 --> 00:29:20,745 that we loved, like Dennis the Menace, 349 00:29:20,865 --> 00:29:22,985 Home Alone, Honey I Shrunk 350 00:29:22,985 --> 00:29:23,805 the Kids, 351 00:29:24,645 --> 00:29:27,025 a bunch of really good 352 00:29:27,025 --> 00:29:28,325 children's movies. 353 00:29:29,225 --> 00:29:30,565 Yeah, it was a Stephen King movie 354 00:29:30,565 --> 00:29:31,945 about 355 00:29:31,945 --> 00:29:33,385 the boys. 356 00:29:35,765 --> 00:29:36,965 I can't believe that's escaping 357 00:29:36,965 --> 00:29:38,425 my name, my mind. 358 00:29:39,385 --> 00:29:40,525 But regardless, 359 00:29:41,245 --> 00:29:42,805 it seems like we were just 360 00:29:42,805 --> 00:29:44,245 we have 361 00:29:44,245 --> 00:29:46,885 nonchalantly noticed 362 00:29:46,885 --> 00:29:48,785 the sort of fiatification 363 00:29:48,785 --> 00:29:50,765 of kids' movies 364 00:29:50,765 --> 00:29:52,765 where it's like all these animated movies, which 365 00:29:52,765 --> 00:29:54,485 some of them are really good, but 366 00:29:54,485 --> 00:29:56,765 you're like, God, 367 00:29:56,805 --> 00:29:57,725 I wish the kids had 368 00:29:57,725 --> 00:30:00,585 live-action films like we did 369 00:30:00,585 --> 00:30:02,065 growing up that 370 00:30:02,065 --> 00:30:04,585 they just seemed to be missing out on. 371 00:30:05,265 --> 00:30:06,325 And that's something that we were 372 00:30:06,325 --> 00:30:12,205 just a couple weeks ago saying i wish somebody would fund movies like that yeah i i mean that 373 00:30:12,205 --> 00:30:17,645 is a great point um i also have a couple younger kids and i love animated films i was originally 374 00:30:17,645 --> 00:30:23,185 drawn to filmmaking because i loved the look of stop motion films and then also realized i could 375 00:30:23,185 --> 00:30:31,685 never be a stop motion animator also a very hard thing to do all day long um but so i love animation 376 00:30:31,685 --> 00:30:37,745 I love what you can do there. But you're right, having live action and just seeing other real kids on screen. 377 00:30:37,845 --> 00:30:42,065 I know we're supposed to limit their screen time. I agree with that, but sometimes it's necessary. 378 00:30:42,845 --> 00:30:47,765 And like my one-year-old daughter loves to hold pictures of her family. 379 00:30:48,005 --> 00:30:58,605 And I think just seeing the real people in a photo is like still kind of novel, especially with the screens and, you know, all that they have access to these days. 380 00:30:58,605 --> 00:31:05,325 yeah we uh we had a we had a friday night movie night the other week and the kids watch meet the 381 00:31:05,325 --> 00:31:12,505 parents and it was just funny watching them react to it uh they got emotional in some of the parts 382 00:31:12,505 --> 00:31:18,185 and uh it's like yeah shit it doesn't it feel and that came out i think in like 2000 or 2001 383 00:31:18,185 --> 00:31:24,525 and so you don't have any great movies like that anymore and then carlos you mentioned it we talked 384 00:31:24,525 --> 00:31:30,265 about it with Johnny it just seems like Hollywood these days you're just stuck in this sort of 385 00:31:30,265 --> 00:31:37,725 superhero universe sequel machine it's like okay I don't need another Marvel movie let's let's get 386 00:31:37,725 --> 00:31:44,205 something interesting here yeah I mean I was gonna mention I I got into filmmaking because of all the 387 00:31:44,205 --> 00:31:53,485 auteurs in the 90s like uh Paul Thomas Anderson Tarantino uh even Sofia Coppola um and I feel like 388 00:31:53,485 --> 00:32:00,285 there was a cool trend back then of betting on artists with great vision and you just bet a lot 389 00:32:00,285 --> 00:32:07,805 of money on them and hopefully one of them will be a great film um i feel like there was a risk 390 00:32:07,805 --> 00:32:14,925 taking form that doesn't exist as much anymore of course there's still the big festival circuit 391 00:32:14,925 --> 00:32:22,925 and all that but um not a lot of studios betting on auteurs and uh just uh trusting you know the 392 00:32:23,485 --> 00:32:27,465 the artist vision in that way. 393 00:32:28,205 --> 00:32:29,265 And I think it's, 394 00:32:29,265 --> 00:32:30,365 again, 395 00:32:30,405 --> 00:32:31,165 to what we're talking about, 396 00:32:31,225 --> 00:32:33,805 it's less risk-taking overall. 397 00:32:34,565 --> 00:32:34,705 Yeah. 398 00:32:35,325 --> 00:32:38,785 Like there's no modern day mall rats or airheads. 399 00:32:38,805 --> 00:32:39,585 That's exactly. 400 00:32:40,305 --> 00:32:41,725 It's Dogma. 401 00:32:42,245 --> 00:32:43,965 I love those movies growing up. 402 00:32:44,245 --> 00:32:49,105 And it seems like the deprecation of that risk-taking 403 00:32:49,105 --> 00:32:52,685 happened pretty quickly within the last 15, 20 years, 404 00:32:52,685 --> 00:32:54,885 which may seem like a long time to some people, 405 00:32:54,985 --> 00:32:57,265 but really isn't that long period of time. 406 00:32:58,225 --> 00:32:58,565 No. 407 00:32:58,745 --> 00:33:01,485 And on a similar note, 408 00:33:01,585 --> 00:33:04,365 because I think what's kind of underpinning your examples 409 00:33:04,365 --> 00:33:06,745 is comedy. 410 00:33:07,525 --> 00:33:09,605 And with the cancellation, 411 00:33:10,985 --> 00:33:12,745 late night with Stephen Colbert, 412 00:33:12,865 --> 00:33:16,985 I was listening to a podcast about how comedy, 413 00:33:17,325 --> 00:33:18,985 like adult comedy films, 414 00:33:19,605 --> 00:33:21,065 also has seen, 415 00:33:21,065 --> 00:33:28,685 it has not been something that studios have been investing in for a long time. 416 00:33:29,265 --> 00:33:34,385 We used to have, I don't know, like Anchorman and those sorts of movies that have just become 417 00:33:34,385 --> 00:33:39,325 classics and they're so good, but they don't invest in comedy the way they used to. And it 418 00:33:39,325 --> 00:33:47,685 also seems to be tracking this trend of comedians having their individual platforms on social media. 419 00:33:47,685 --> 00:33:57,565 yeah that's actually a really good point like how much of the landscape has shifted because 420 00:33:57,565 --> 00:34:00,805 of the emergence of social media and these different mediums because everything's gone to 421 00:34:00,805 --> 00:34:08,025 like one two minute clips uh and you see it like i'm not that i'm on tiktok but people share them 422 00:34:08,025 --> 00:34:13,605 on twitter and you see it on instagram like these individual creator accounts that have like a 423 00:34:13,605 --> 00:34:19,845 certain shtick and they make like a minute video it's pretty it's not incredible production but it's 424 00:34:19,845 --> 00:34:25,265 enough to grab your attention and a lot of the eyeballs are going there and i think that's another 425 00:34:25,265 --> 00:34:32,545 another sort of theme that's been discussed between my wife and our brother and sister-in-law 426 00:34:32,545 --> 00:34:37,905 is like the attention span um like bringing back like longer form content and like putting your 427 00:34:37,905 --> 00:34:45,165 found I'm actually engaging in a piece of art for longer than 120 seconds and 428 00:34:45,165 --> 00:34:51,125 extending that to 120 minutes is something that I'd like to return to and we actually 429 00:34:51,125 --> 00:34:57,165 we went and saw the f1 movie a couple of weeks ago and it was uh it was actually fun it was a 430 00:34:57,165 --> 00:35:01,605 fun movie I really liked it and it felt good to be in the first time I was in the theater I think 431 00:35:01,605 --> 00:35:06,705 since covid or actually now last summer we took the kids to see a movie but I've only since covid 432 00:35:06,705 --> 00:35:09,845 but I think I've been to the theater like three or four times maybe. 433 00:35:10,525 --> 00:35:10,725 And, 434 00:35:10,805 --> 00:35:11,125 uh, 435 00:35:11,825 --> 00:35:19,065 going to see movies in the theater is something that I think is becoming a 436 00:35:19,065 --> 00:35:21,805 lost sort of practice in society. 437 00:35:21,805 --> 00:35:24,325 And that's very sad because it is a fun experience. 438 00:35:25,605 --> 00:35:25,725 Yeah. 439 00:35:25,865 --> 00:35:27,525 I saw this fascinated, 440 00:35:27,945 --> 00:35:29,905 fascinating interview with Nick Glaser, 441 00:35:30,225 --> 00:35:30,805 the comedian. 442 00:35:31,385 --> 00:35:31,505 And, 443 00:35:31,625 --> 00:35:32,025 uh, 444 00:35:32,505 --> 00:35:32,665 yeah, 445 00:35:32,665 --> 00:35:35,605 she was basically saying that she lives for the, 446 00:35:35,605 --> 00:35:39,045 YouTube clips or the TikTok clips. 447 00:35:40,965 --> 00:35:44,005 And that's how people really consume your media. 448 00:35:44,125 --> 00:35:47,585 And that's also they assess if you're successful at something. 449 00:35:47,845 --> 00:35:51,905 Like if you are walking red carpets or if you have clips here and there. 450 00:35:52,585 --> 00:35:57,605 But when it comes to the numbers, nobody, even though all these comedians have these HBO specials, 451 00:35:58,605 --> 00:36:01,525 very few people actually watch all that. 452 00:36:01,525 --> 00:36:10,945 like the media really lives in all the clips and all the secondary content that people extract from all those specials. 453 00:36:11,865 --> 00:36:18,365 Which is a little sad because we, of course, want to make long films and proper features. 454 00:36:19,565 --> 00:36:23,725 But yeah, then you're competing with the tension span of the new generation. 455 00:36:24,485 --> 00:36:27,725 Yeah, I mean, this ties back to Bitcoin too because it's really incentive driven. 456 00:36:27,725 --> 00:36:30,065 all those platforms are trying to sell ads 457 00:36:30,065 --> 00:36:32,165 and they just need 458 00:36:32,165 --> 00:36:34,345 volume of one to two minute clips 459 00:36:34,345 --> 00:36:35,985 getting millions of views 460 00:36:35,985 --> 00:36:37,105 to sell ads into 461 00:36:37,105 --> 00:36:39,885 the monetary sort of incentive 462 00:36:39,885 --> 00:36:42,385 disruption that's how it manifests 463 00:36:42,385 --> 00:36:44,205 exactly 464 00:36:44,205 --> 00:36:48,065 I do think when we skim 465 00:36:48,065 --> 00:36:49,845 over TV a little bit because we're 466 00:36:49,845 --> 00:36:51,765 like we're marrying this 467 00:36:51,765 --> 00:36:53,985 you know the short commercial side of things which is like 468 00:36:53,985 --> 00:36:55,785 what Forager has done and now with White Paper 469 00:36:55,785 --> 00:37:00,485 We want to see a reemergence of original ideas and film. 470 00:37:01,145 --> 00:37:04,365 I actually consume more TV than film. 471 00:37:04,865 --> 00:37:10,705 And there is still a lot of great content in TV and watching some really funny shows as well. 472 00:37:11,685 --> 00:37:17,465 So I feel like maybe that's where Hollywood's been hedging its bets a little bit in the streaming and the TV. 473 00:37:17,645 --> 00:37:25,045 Because it does still, I guess, apply to our shorter attention spans. 474 00:37:25,045 --> 00:37:30,685 We don't have to go to the theater and make a whole outing out of it and, you know, spend two and a half, three hours. 475 00:37:30,805 --> 00:37:35,045 And it's also been an interesting thing is that the movies have gotten so long. 476 00:37:35,865 --> 00:37:41,045 It's like to get you to commit to going to a theater and then spending four plus hours. 477 00:37:42,145 --> 00:37:44,485 It's like it's gone completely in the other direction. 478 00:37:44,725 --> 00:37:53,925 And I don't know if that was if that was intentional, but it definitely keeps me from going to the theater. 479 00:37:53,925 --> 00:37:55,825 Not that I would be able to as much anyways, 480 00:37:55,925 --> 00:37:56,685 like you were saying too, 481 00:37:56,725 --> 00:38:00,545 it's pretty hard when you have young kids to find the time to go and make 482 00:38:00,545 --> 00:38:01,205 those arrangements, 483 00:38:01,205 --> 00:38:02,465 but then thinking, 484 00:38:02,585 --> 00:38:02,845 okay, 485 00:38:02,845 --> 00:38:03,665 if we're going to go, 486 00:38:03,725 --> 00:38:06,925 it's going to be a three plus hour commitment. 487 00:38:07,945 --> 00:38:08,725 It's a lot. 488 00:38:08,845 --> 00:38:09,845 Cause everyone's pretty busy. 489 00:38:11,365 --> 00:38:11,765 Yeah. 490 00:38:12,065 --> 00:38:12,405 Like the, 491 00:38:12,505 --> 00:38:12,585 yeah. 492 00:38:12,585 --> 00:38:14,325 Like a 90 minute movie is perfect. 493 00:38:14,465 --> 00:38:15,825 And I'm just a research, 494 00:38:15,925 --> 00:38:16,145 Carlos, 495 00:38:16,245 --> 00:38:17,265 you were mentioning Tarantino. 496 00:38:17,385 --> 00:38:20,385 I think one of my favorite films of all time is reservoir dogs. 497 00:38:20,685 --> 00:38:20,925 And okay. 498 00:38:21,845 --> 00:38:22,645 Just looked it up now. 499 00:38:22,725 --> 00:38:23,465 We're in 40 minutes. 500 00:38:23,925 --> 00:38:30,525 probably longer back then but yeah if you can get like a 90 minute quick hit and that's like 501 00:38:30,525 --> 00:38:34,545 that's where the artistry really comes in is the people that have the ability to 502 00:38:34,545 --> 00:38:42,425 like tell the story in a 90 minute span and really get you emotional and have you thinking after 503 00:38:42,425 --> 00:38:48,445 yeah and i know watch something like game of thrones or house of the dragon like wait i 504 00:38:48,445 --> 00:38:52,505 basically did watch a movie so i'm telling myself i can't go make time for a movie i mean it's 505 00:38:52,505 --> 00:38:56,745 definitely easier to sit in front of my tv and stream something than going to the theater but 506 00:38:56,745 --> 00:39:01,085 some of these shows are are really long and they captivate you and you go oh my gosh i can't believe 507 00:39:01,085 --> 00:39:06,285 i've been sitting here for you know over an hour and i think there's a balance to be struck too 508 00:39:06,285 --> 00:39:13,885 there and again finding that like you said consolidation of a story into 90 minutes which 509 00:39:13,885 --> 00:39:20,265 is like when i was growing up that that was a full film for me too yeah i'm curious what the uh the 510 00:39:20,265 --> 00:39:24,165 short films that you guys are funding now via white paper, 511 00:39:24,365 --> 00:39:25,405 what, 512 00:39:25,505 --> 00:39:27,845 what type of themes and stories are they leaning into? 513 00:39:28,805 --> 00:39:30,865 If you're free to disclose. 514 00:39:32,525 --> 00:39:33,045 Yeah. 515 00:39:33,425 --> 00:39:36,145 So what we're looking at right now, 516 00:39:36,245 --> 00:39:38,565 we do have some comedy. 517 00:39:38,785 --> 00:39:40,065 So it seems to be again, 518 00:39:40,205 --> 00:39:44,825 depending on the discussion and I think we're all looking for a bit of 519 00:39:44,825 --> 00:39:47,105 escape from the day to day. 520 00:39:47,105 --> 00:39:49,185 And that's what comedy can provide. 521 00:39:49,185 --> 00:39:52,865 So we have two short films that are comedic in nature. 522 00:39:53,465 --> 00:39:57,385 One's the satire as well on the fashion industry. 523 00:39:57,545 --> 00:40:00,345 And so I'm really excited to see that one come to life. 524 00:40:01,405 --> 00:40:07,505 And then we've got more of a coming of age story that will be in development next year. 525 00:40:07,905 --> 00:40:16,405 Also deeply rooted in the political polarization of our country. 526 00:40:16,405 --> 00:40:23,385 so that's interesting because I do think those themes are avoided for I'm sure obvious reasons 527 00:40:23,385 --> 00:40:32,625 in Hollywood this time and then another project that will be finished up early next year then is 528 00:40:32,625 --> 00:40:40,645 more like a documentary series and there's a couple episodes for proof of concept there so 529 00:40:40,645 --> 00:40:45,205 it runs the gamut really trying to find a balance in our slate or our portfolio 530 00:40:45,205 --> 00:41:01,845 Yeah. And especially I feel like we're always trying to look for projects that don't seem like that are as commercially viable or that wouldn't seem as attractive to a traditional film investor. 531 00:41:01,845 --> 00:41:08,245 and like one of the projects that we just shot this weekend is that it's basically just physical 532 00:41:08,245 --> 00:41:15,005 comedy and it's two people physically fighting over a piece of lens that they found uh that 533 00:41:15,005 --> 00:41:26,025 fell on someone's shoulder uh so it's no dialogue pure fighting uh yes and and it's just in my 534 00:41:26,025 --> 00:41:33,945 opinion it's just original like uh it doesn't have to fit a specific genre so yeah we're kind of 535 00:41:33,945 --> 00:41:42,345 playing yeah with the whole gamma of like content oh yeah and they would be remiss of me not to 536 00:41:42,345 --> 00:41:45,965 bring it up because we mentioned it earlier but what are your thoughts on this explosion of 537 00:41:45,965 --> 00:41:55,465 ai generated content and how do you view it as people working in the industry is it a tool 538 00:41:55,465 --> 00:41:57,945 that you see yourself leveraging 539 00:41:57,945 --> 00:42:01,525 or do you think there's going to be a market 540 00:42:01,525 --> 00:42:06,365 for like bolts to nuts, beginning to end, 541 00:42:06,725 --> 00:42:12,725 produced, shot, acted, produced by humans 542 00:42:12,725 --> 00:42:16,185 that people will want to consume instead of the AI? 543 00:42:16,405 --> 00:42:18,525 Because hand up, we've been experimenting 544 00:42:18,525 --> 00:42:22,045 with the AI generated content 545 00:42:22,045 --> 00:42:25,005 just to tell stories that we don't think 546 00:42:25,005 --> 00:42:26,805 or being told in little two-minute clips 547 00:42:26,805 --> 00:42:31,825 in an attempt to draw attention to a web browser extension 548 00:42:31,825 --> 00:42:32,585 that we launched. 549 00:42:32,825 --> 00:42:35,365 And it's been fun experimenting with that. 550 00:42:35,925 --> 00:42:37,865 But there is a part of me that's like, 551 00:42:37,965 --> 00:42:41,645 ah, this is cheap, relatively easy. 552 00:42:42,405 --> 00:42:44,685 It's getting us good exposure. 553 00:42:44,685 --> 00:42:49,265 But there is the romantic in me 554 00:42:49,265 --> 00:42:53,025 that thinks that we need to preserve 555 00:42:53,025 --> 00:42:58,025 like actual human filmmaking, acting, and storytelling. 556 00:42:58,025 --> 00:43:00,025 For sure. Yeah. 557 00:43:00,025 --> 00:43:17,438 I mean I think it really You have thoughts No I mean I think it a very sensitive subject of course in our field because as much opportunity as there is of course a lot of people on the artistry side also feel the threat 558 00:43:19,257 --> 00:43:23,177 Because these programs, we're getting better and better every day. 559 00:43:23,177 --> 00:43:46,077 And I personally think that you still need a good amount of taste if you're going to be creating these creative videos or images, just because there's still a lot of AI that looks a little bit plasticky, a little bit if you don't know how to prompt it. 560 00:43:46,077 --> 00:43:51,037 But also if you don't give it good references, it ends up looking still artificial. 561 00:43:51,037 --> 00:43:53,297 all of that's changing 562 00:43:53,297 --> 00:43:55,957 and still 563 00:43:55,957 --> 00:43:58,438 I think a lot of people are treating it 564 00:43:58,438 --> 00:44:00,457 as more 565 00:44:00,457 --> 00:44:02,438 individual 566 00:44:02,438 --> 00:44:04,177 frames or individual clips 567 00:44:04,177 --> 00:44:06,137 not so much like storytelling 568 00:44:06,137 --> 00:44:08,297 like I've seen very few 569 00:44:08,297 --> 00:44:10,497 actual sequences 570 00:44:10,497 --> 00:44:12,537 that tell a story that moves you 571 00:44:12,537 --> 00:44:13,877 or have a beginning and end 572 00:44:13,877 --> 00:44:15,617 so that's still I think 573 00:44:15,617 --> 00:44:18,297 in the starting 574 00:44:18,297 --> 00:44:19,257 phase 575 00:44:19,257 --> 00:44:21,898 but I see a lot of opportunity 576 00:44:21,898 --> 00:44:23,357 especially because 577 00:44:23,357 --> 00:44:25,837 we have 578 00:44:25,837 --> 00:44:27,677 this artist that we collaborate 579 00:44:27,677 --> 00:44:30,237 with a lot and he's very much 580 00:44:30,237 --> 00:44:31,957 into AI and 581 00:44:31,957 --> 00:44:33,398 he only sees opportunity 582 00:44:33,398 --> 00:44:36,237 he's very tech savvy as well 583 00:44:36,237 --> 00:44:38,398 and he was like you know in the past 584 00:44:38,398 --> 00:44:40,117 if I had this idea of like 585 00:44:40,117 --> 00:44:42,097 spiders, robot spiders 586 00:44:42,097 --> 00:44:43,537 coming down from the ceiling 587 00:44:43,537 --> 00:44:46,157 and I wanted to propose that to 588 00:44:46,157 --> 00:44:47,477 a client or to like 589 00:44:47,477 --> 00:44:48,997 another creative 590 00:44:48,997 --> 00:44:54,357 it would be a whole discussion right like they like you would pitch it and they would be like 591 00:44:54,357 --> 00:45:00,637 okay we'll do we need a whole vfx team in india uh to so we can outsource it because it's a lot of 592 00:45:00,637 --> 00:45:09,857 like work a lot of man hours and it's discussions with the vfx company so it's a huge long process 593 00:45:09,857 --> 00:45:16,677 just to come up with spiders coming from the from the ceiling and he's like with ai i can do it 594 00:45:16,677 --> 00:45:23,698 overnight. I can just work on my prompts. I can be in the zone creatively and I can accomplish my 595 00:45:23,698 --> 00:45:31,777 vision just myself with a computer. So in a way, that's really empowering, I think, for a creative 596 00:45:31,777 --> 00:45:39,497 as well. The question is, does the AI overtake that everyone, like even the person creating, 597 00:45:40,497 --> 00:45:42,817 making those decisions? I think that's the debate. 598 00:45:42,817 --> 00:45:48,117 oh sorry Ali 599 00:45:48,117 --> 00:45:51,218 I was gonna say 600 00:45:51,218 --> 00:45:53,257 it's been fun 601 00:45:53,257 --> 00:45:54,737 experimenting it with 602 00:45:54,737 --> 00:45:56,057 but even what we've produced 603 00:45:56,057 --> 00:45:58,017 it's obviously AI 604 00:45:58,017 --> 00:46:00,457 we haven't crossed the uncanny valley 605 00:46:00,457 --> 00:46:01,837 either 606 00:46:01,837 --> 00:46:03,918 and I'm under the belief that all the AGI 607 00:46:03,918 --> 00:46:06,077 ASI talk coming out of Silicon Valley 608 00:46:06,077 --> 00:46:08,337 from the Sam Altman's of the world 609 00:46:08,337 --> 00:46:10,177 is more hype 610 00:46:10,177 --> 00:46:11,817 than actual oomph 611 00:46:11,817 --> 00:46:16,517 I don't think AI is going to be able to replace human creativity. 612 00:46:16,918 --> 00:46:20,918 So the idea that you're just going to launch these models 613 00:46:20,918 --> 00:46:23,517 and they're going to come up with these unique stories 614 00:46:23,517 --> 00:46:26,357 that humans actually connect with, I'm a bit skeptical of, 615 00:46:26,577 --> 00:46:30,837 even with the crazy advancements that we've seen over the last few years. 616 00:46:30,918 --> 00:46:36,837 It could be wrong, but I just have a hunch that you can't create consciousness 617 00:46:36,837 --> 00:46:40,777 in the digital world, in the machine world, 618 00:46:41,377 --> 00:46:45,017 if you will, no matter how vehemently 619 00:46:45,017 --> 00:46:46,577 Sam Altman and others are telling you 620 00:46:46,577 --> 00:46:48,017 that they're doing just that. 621 00:46:49,577 --> 00:46:51,218 Yeah, and you're right. 622 00:46:51,398 --> 00:46:54,777 It is not a replacement for humans' ideas 623 00:46:54,777 --> 00:46:57,317 and good creatives. 624 00:46:57,997 --> 00:46:59,097 You can augment it. 625 00:46:59,497 --> 00:47:01,398 It can be a great springboard. 626 00:47:01,797 --> 00:47:04,577 We've used it to concept things 627 00:47:04,577 --> 00:47:09,777 before they need to be sent to someone to really bring that vision to life. 628 00:47:09,777 --> 00:47:12,817 Because it requires so many different tools. 629 00:47:12,977 --> 00:47:17,017 Even generating images like Carlos has done for certain projects. 630 00:47:17,198 --> 00:47:19,617 Just again, templates, see what we could do. 631 00:47:19,998 --> 00:47:26,577 Someone wants this thing in the shot to move faster or to behave differently. 632 00:47:26,817 --> 00:47:27,817 What would it take? 633 00:47:27,898 --> 00:47:28,857 What could it look like? 634 00:47:29,198 --> 00:47:33,698 It's great for experimentation and stress testing. 635 00:47:33,698 --> 00:47:36,717 but it's not a magic bullet. 636 00:47:37,438 --> 00:47:43,617 And we were pitching on a job last week that has a really tight turnaround 637 00:47:43,617 --> 00:47:45,357 and needs a lot of EFX help. 638 00:47:45,537 --> 00:47:49,498 And the thinking is that, oh, because it's such a tight turnaround, 639 00:47:49,698 --> 00:47:52,677 let's just plug it into AI and make it happen, right? 640 00:47:53,377 --> 00:47:54,477 It's not like that. 641 00:47:54,797 --> 00:47:57,837 You have to take into consideration continuity. 642 00:47:58,457 --> 00:48:01,477 And Carlos had brought up at that point during the pitch, 643 00:48:01,477 --> 00:48:08,137 Every time you generate the image again, something's going to be a little off and you can get really good at prompting. 644 00:48:08,498 --> 00:48:21,217 You can only take it so far before someone else has to come in, another VFX artist to make everything perfect and consistent and take certain things out and add others in so that you're not ending up with a new set of variables every time. 645 00:48:21,377 --> 00:48:22,938 So it's a great tool. 646 00:48:23,077 --> 00:48:27,918 It has definitely sped up some concepting for us and for clients. 647 00:48:27,918 --> 00:48:43,957 I know that they are leaning into it and advertising, you know, just to generate customer research and stress as to whether a certain demographic will respond in a certain way to their idea. 648 00:48:43,957 --> 00:48:49,777 And they can collate all of that research to, you know, ask the AI if it's going to work or not. 649 00:48:50,077 --> 00:49:00,637 I don't know how well that's going to serve them in the long run, but it's interesting because like you said, building consciousness, that seems like too tall of a task. 650 00:49:00,817 --> 00:49:01,597 I think they're trying. 651 00:49:01,918 --> 00:49:03,537 I think they might get pretty close. 652 00:49:04,717 --> 00:49:09,637 But overall, it is not going to completely replace what we're doing. 653 00:49:09,637 --> 00:49:11,597 And we love novel things. 654 00:49:11,597 --> 00:49:17,957 And computers have to be trained on something and then know what to deliver consistently. 655 00:49:19,717 --> 00:49:39,597 And so I don't think anyone's going to react to AI content in the long run and engage in it the same way if we didn't have anyone coming up with the ideas that would make the content different or more, you know, 656 00:49:39,597 --> 00:49:44,398 more relatable for certain situations or what's going on enough in society so there's always going 657 00:49:44,398 --> 00:49:51,317 to be a human driver but it is um causing the industry to contract because like carl said things 658 00:49:51,317 --> 00:49:57,597 can happen faster they can happen with fewer people and so the entire industry and by industry 659 00:49:57,597 --> 00:50:03,297 i mean you know mostly speaking from uh you know post-production in the advertising space but then 660 00:50:03,297 --> 00:50:09,717 you know further into narrative as well it we need to to reorganize ourselves and understand 661 00:50:09,717 --> 00:50:18,957 that it's going to require even more nimbleness and more modular with our relationships and our 662 00:50:18,957 --> 00:50:25,077 vendors than even you know before and that was that's been foragers entire you know foundation 663 00:50:25,077 --> 00:50:31,198 was being nimble and um we still find ourselves going okay let's keep up with this new tech and 664 00:50:31,198 --> 00:50:32,017 what does this mean? 665 00:50:32,137 --> 00:50:33,998 What do we really need to invest in that? 666 00:50:35,837 --> 00:50:36,198 Yeah. 667 00:50:36,938 --> 00:50:40,097 I feel like you guys are ahead of the curve just in the business model, 668 00:50:40,157 --> 00:50:40,698 being nimble, 669 00:50:40,837 --> 00:50:41,277 small, 670 00:50:42,617 --> 00:50:43,037 um, 671 00:50:44,537 --> 00:50:44,737 and, 672 00:50:44,737 --> 00:50:45,137 uh, 673 00:50:45,137 --> 00:50:45,977 boutique, 674 00:50:46,057 --> 00:50:47,957 maybe that might be the right word or the wrong word, 675 00:50:47,998 --> 00:50:49,537 but it's the word that comes to my mind. 676 00:50:49,537 --> 00:50:53,837 And hopefully what I would imagine is there definitely disruption going on, 677 00:50:53,918 --> 00:50:54,517 people worried, 678 00:50:54,698 --> 00:50:55,597 but hopefully that, 679 00:50:55,657 --> 00:50:59,217 that wall of worry turns into people recognize like, 680 00:50:59,257 --> 00:50:59,357 Oh, 681 00:50:59,357 --> 00:51:00,517 there's a lot of opportunity here. 682 00:51:00,517 --> 00:51:04,057 and you see like the world of a thousand flowers bloom 683 00:51:04,057 --> 00:51:07,817 where instead of having the major studios dominate everything, 684 00:51:07,977 --> 00:51:10,237 people recognize that the cost has been cut 685 00:51:10,237 --> 00:51:11,198 and they can compete 686 00:51:11,198 --> 00:51:15,757 and a world of 10,000 foragers emerges 687 00:51:15,757 --> 00:51:19,457 and you have this sort of competition for storytelling, 688 00:51:20,177 --> 00:51:24,797 maybe a combination of human AI production. 689 00:51:25,418 --> 00:51:27,698 Maybe there'll be some, 690 00:51:27,797 --> 00:51:28,837 there's like AI only, 691 00:51:28,938 --> 00:51:30,217 others that are human only. 692 00:51:30,517 --> 00:51:36,698 and it could create like a really cool competitive environment that ultimately should lead to more 693 00:51:36,698 --> 00:51:42,657 creativity and better better film out there yeah definitely and i was having a conversation with 694 00:51:42,657 --> 00:51:48,717 another person in our field a few months ago and and he equated an entirely human production 695 00:51:48,717 --> 00:51:53,617 in the future being like shooting on film now like i really want to shoot on film it's going 696 00:51:53,617 --> 00:51:59,037 to look so authentic instead of you know just using a digital camera and then it's like okay 697 00:51:59,037 --> 00:51:59,998 okay, well, let's think about that. 698 00:52:00,097 --> 00:52:00,938 We have to, you know, 699 00:52:01,357 --> 00:52:04,037 this is how you have to treat film and process it. 700 00:52:04,077 --> 00:52:05,357 And this is the lead time it takes. 701 00:52:05,398 --> 00:52:06,198 And if we just, you know, 702 00:52:06,237 --> 00:52:07,677 if we're short on time and money, 703 00:52:07,698 --> 00:52:08,998 we'll just use the digital camera. 704 00:52:09,117 --> 00:52:13,398 And I think that it is a very good analogy to use for, 705 00:52:13,637 --> 00:52:15,077 you know, as we move forward with AI, 706 00:52:15,257 --> 00:52:16,557 and it gets better and better. 707 00:52:16,657 --> 00:52:17,617 It's like, okay, what is it? 708 00:52:17,677 --> 00:52:19,457 You have time and money 709 00:52:19,457 --> 00:52:22,237 and you want to make something that's entirely human, 710 00:52:22,357 --> 00:52:23,357 no AI, et cetera. 711 00:52:24,498 --> 00:52:24,898 Great. 712 00:52:25,418 --> 00:52:26,777 But do we, you know, 713 00:52:26,857 --> 00:52:28,337 need to make some sacrifices 714 00:52:28,337 --> 00:52:31,617 or cut a few corners and bring in the AI. 715 00:52:32,117 --> 00:52:35,337 And that's just something that's going to be part of everyone's thinking 716 00:52:35,337 --> 00:52:37,698 when they're doing their concept data strategy. 717 00:52:38,957 --> 00:52:41,037 Yeah, and as you guys are proving a white paper, 718 00:52:41,157 --> 00:52:50,137 Bitcoin can be the tool to enable those teams that want to be the film of the next era, 719 00:52:50,717 --> 00:52:54,498 recording on film of the next era, which is doing everything with humans only. 720 00:52:54,498 --> 00:53:02,498 I think that's enabled with smarter capital funding for these films. 721 00:53:03,717 --> 00:53:04,237 Yeah. 722 00:53:04,977 --> 00:53:05,198 Yeah. 723 00:53:05,398 --> 00:53:09,517 Like we said in the beginning, it preserves the effort that we're putting in today. 724 00:53:10,057 --> 00:53:16,517 And our industry has seen a bit of a race to the bottom because your money doesn't go as far. 725 00:53:17,198 --> 00:53:21,938 And everyone's companies, operations have been contracting for a number of reasons. 726 00:53:21,938 --> 00:53:24,517 so your nest egg 727 00:53:24,517 --> 00:53:26,438 for making that film 728 00:53:26,438 --> 00:53:28,537 might only get you half a film by the time you get 729 00:53:28,537 --> 00:53:30,438 around to making it because that's the other thing is it takes 730 00:53:30,438 --> 00:53:32,457 a long time to raise capital and set up 731 00:53:32,457 --> 00:53:33,418 a production and 732 00:53:33,418 --> 00:53:36,657 you know you just can't keep up 733 00:53:36,657 --> 00:53:38,517 you can't really keep up and so you've 734 00:53:38,517 --> 00:53:39,537 got to find ways to 735 00:53:39,537 --> 00:53:41,938 do it cheaper and faster 736 00:53:41,938 --> 00:53:44,418 and unfortunately that doesn't 737 00:53:44,418 --> 00:53:45,537 support 738 00:53:45,537 --> 00:53:47,677 like original good 739 00:53:47,677 --> 00:53:50,717 creative filmmaking to the long run 740 00:53:51,938 --> 00:53:52,157 Yeah. 741 00:53:52,837 --> 00:53:53,498 It's exciting. 742 00:53:54,057 --> 00:53:54,898 Like I said in the beginning, 743 00:53:55,077 --> 00:53:55,557 this is, 744 00:53:56,398 --> 00:54:00,317 I love having you two on because I think it's a validation that Bitcoin is 745 00:54:00,317 --> 00:54:05,957 breaking out of the relatively small bubble it's existed in its first 16 746 00:54:05,957 --> 00:54:09,217 years since the protocol launched. 747 00:54:09,517 --> 00:54:19,797 And I'm a true believer in sort of people seeing a company like Forager and 748 00:54:19,797 --> 00:54:25,398 white paper doing what you guys are doing getting inspired and as it pertains to like bitcoin's 749 00:54:25,398 --> 00:54:31,317 adoption over the long run i think it's projects like the ones that you guys are working on that 750 00:54:31,317 --> 00:54:37,898 are like sneaky edge cases they're gonna have profound effects on others because for the 751 00:54:37,898 --> 00:54:45,257 longest time like i said it's been cypherpunks and austrian economics nerds and it really leaned 752 00:54:45,257 --> 00:54:51,477 into bitcoin but i think we just need to normalize bitcoin as a tool for for anybody not just those 753 00:54:51,477 --> 00:55:00,998 who are either economically or politically uh can end up on a in extreme side of of the spectrum of 754 00:55:00,998 --> 00:55:06,137 economics or politics uh bitcoin is simply a tool that anybody can use and i think what you guys are 755 00:55:06,137 --> 00:55:13,237 doing at forager and white paper is an incredible example of that thank you thank you so much um 756 00:55:13,237 --> 00:55:15,037 Yeah, no, and you're right. 757 00:55:15,157 --> 00:55:16,557 It's a tool for everyone. 758 00:55:16,797 --> 00:55:21,857 It's still very hard to get Bitcoin across to our circle 759 00:55:21,857 --> 00:55:24,797 because it's very early on. 760 00:55:25,737 --> 00:55:28,517 Just explaining our concept to fellow filmmakers. 761 00:55:29,438 --> 00:55:32,097 It sounds too good to be true sometimes also. 762 00:55:32,097 --> 00:55:33,957 You get to make your art. 763 00:55:34,698 --> 00:55:41,077 No need to worry about the investment until the investors will give you your returns. 764 00:55:41,237 --> 00:55:43,057 You don't need to worry about the film's performance. 765 00:55:43,237 --> 00:55:47,398 so you can only accomplish that with a tool like Bitcoin 766 00:55:47,398 --> 00:55:50,677 so hopefully it catches on 767 00:55:50,677 --> 00:55:53,137 and we can make some great stuff 768 00:55:53,137 --> 00:55:57,438 where can anybody listening to this find out more 769 00:55:57,438 --> 00:55:59,517 about what you two are up to 770 00:55:59,517 --> 00:56:02,597 yeah so 771 00:56:02,597 --> 00:56:05,157 you can follow us 772 00:56:05,157 --> 00:56:07,557 on X 773 00:56:07,557 --> 00:56:09,797 and that's going to be at white paper 774 00:56:09,797 --> 00:56:12,097 and for our purposes it's spelled 775 00:56:12,097 --> 00:56:16,837 whtptr underscore studio. 776 00:56:17,737 --> 00:56:23,217 Also, Instagram, great for more of our behind the scenes 777 00:56:23,217 --> 00:56:27,817 and actual teasers, the better visual medium for us there. 778 00:56:27,817 --> 00:56:32,757 It's also at whitepaper whtptr.studio. 779 00:56:33,477 --> 00:56:37,537 Either of those places are good ways to follow what we're up to. 780 00:56:39,337 --> 00:56:39,817 Awesome. 781 00:56:39,817 --> 00:56:43,377 We'll make sure we link to all that in the show notes. 782 00:56:44,237 --> 00:56:46,957 Carlos, Allie, thank you for coming on. 783 00:56:47,198 --> 00:56:50,137 I think what you guys are doing is incredibly cool, number one, 784 00:56:50,198 --> 00:56:52,698 incredibly important, number two, really leading the way 785 00:56:52,698 --> 00:56:54,657 and showing people that this stuff is possible 786 00:56:54,657 --> 00:56:57,837 and it could have profound positive effects 787 00:56:57,837 --> 00:57:02,237 on preserving certain art forms, in this case, film, 788 00:57:03,077 --> 00:57:05,157 which is something that I'm passionate about. 789 00:57:05,277 --> 00:57:08,198 I like movies and I would like to see better movies out there. 790 00:57:08,198 --> 00:57:19,717 So the fact that you guys are using Bitcoin in an attempt to fund the directors and artists who are not getting attention from the big studios is really exciting. 791 00:57:21,137 --> 00:57:22,137 Thank you so much. 792 00:57:22,617 --> 00:57:23,457 Thank you so much, Marty. 793 00:57:23,797 --> 00:57:24,418 Appreciate it. 794 00:57:25,117 --> 00:57:25,438 All right. 795 00:57:25,698 --> 00:57:26,237 That's all we got today. 796 00:57:26,297 --> 00:57:26,957 Freaks, peace and love. 797 00:57:27,277 --> 00:57:27,457 Okay.