Well, it's been about a year since we caught up,
and you probably do need security guards with guns now
because the metals complex has had one hell of a run.
Silver just this morning went over $100,
hit over $101 at some point.
Cold's approaching $5,000, and I had to reach out to you
because, as I was saying before we hit record,
I'm convinced that those in the know of what's going on with the metal flows
know the actual story of what's going on because it seems pretty big right now um so without asking
any leading questions i guess just jump into it what have you seen what is going on with the the
metals complex as a stance yeah i would say i mean clearly we could we could talk about all the
monetary reasons the you know expansion of debt uh all those things that are really taking place
And, you know, frankly, what started really around the time of the Ukraine war, I think it set the stage for what we're seeing here, which is a exit of globalism and trade relationships, which are not just broken, but we're now in war over resources.
and then the resources that are critical to the future related to energy, AI, power,
and military are forefront. And you kind of put all those things in together where people all want
the same asset at the same time. That's what an auction does. If two people want to buy something
and they're willing to pay a higher price to get it, that auction goes up. Well, if you're lucky at
an art auction or you're on eBay and you're the only one bidding, price is lower. So it's a
situation, you know, really what's happened, it's just, you got to, it's a geopolitical.
And so I've been talking about it as it's a metals war. I was right around, I'm actually
flying out to Europe on Sunday here a couple of days. I think it was, I was coming back. I think
I had a hat on. I think some people are like, oh man, you're not very professional. I was like,
man, I'm on a 10 hour flight, like, uh, you know, coming back from Europe and I just put a hat on
and I started talking about what was happening and it was the gold moving to the U S and,
and I kind of started to put together the, the, my, a little bit more of my macro thesis of,
of what, what was going to happen. And a lot of it is why I moved my, my, uh, what's now,
I moved from Arizona over 18 years ago.
I founded it.
I moved it to Wyoming, and then I started another company called the Wyoming Reserve,
which is a tax-advantaged foreign trade zone vaulting operation.
And, you know, when you have the macro thesis and you see the chips change,
I love to put things on the board and you move things around.
And I started just talking about what I'm seeing unfold.
And, you know, really what we've seen, you know, kind of fast forward,
a little bit here with silver that we'll cover. Really, it is China. It's U.S. banks. It's U.S.
government. That's what's driving the numbers right now. But I also think it started the
Ukraine war when assets were seized. And I think this is even interesting in the digital sphere,
because I, you know, is what is seizable and what is not.
And so when Russia's assets, when we're talking balances at, you know, the Bank of England,
whether that was physical gold, whether that was fiat currency,
whether that was some oligarch's boat, like in a different port, you know, the assets were seized.
And I really think most of the BRICS nations looked at that and says,
Well, if that can happen to them, that can happen to us.
And, you know, if we look at the Ukraine war, it's clearly a proxy because it's just there's not a lot of movement.
It's just there's unfortunately a lot of death and money and money laundering and stuff.
But China is really the one behind it all, behind Russia, because if Russia were to fall, China is now next.
And so Trump's tweet was December, right around Christmas of 24.
He hadn't taken office yet.
He'd just won the election.
He gave a, oh gosh, sorry, my phone wasn't turned off.
He gave a really interesting tweet out, and I don't think it was properly covered.
He said, warning to the BRICS, don't start a new currency and don't back it.
and I think we could all get our heads around, okay, the BRICS might want to try to create a competitor to the U.S. dollar.
I think we can all get around that, but I don't think people pay attention to what he meant by back it.
It was gold.
And so at that time, and what that means historically, if you think about it,
whoever holds the most gold essentially has made all the rules.
This is just throughout history.
I mean, this goes back thousands of years.
And then after World War II even, gold is the settlement layer for the debts of everyone.
And that's why Bank of England has held all the gold over the last decades.
It's had the most gold in the world.
And now even countries will pledge some of their gold as loan facilities through the World Bank for developing countries.
I mean, so it's very much part of the financial system.
Then you have this beast, China, whose military and economy has been growing decade after decade, saying, hey, we want our gold in China.
You know, want it there.
And so that had been going on for a few years under when Biden was there and no one was really paying attention. What I don't think people were also paying attention, and I came from the risk management side in the mining industry, so have done some corporate risk management work in mainly not just the U.S., but Latin America, a little bit in Africa.
So I'm pretty aware of resources and companies.
And traditionally, I would say it was the U.S., Canadian mining companies and Australian mining companies were kind of some of the biggest players in that arena.
China over the last 20 years did a really good job of getting in, in particular, into Africa.
And they start cutting deals.
And they said, hey, we'll build you an airport.
We'll build you schools.
We'll build you a port if you let us access to develop this mine or access food.
Because, I mean, China is just this massive machine.
So really, and now we're starting to see these military coups in Africa that are probably going to pick up, like, who are they aligning with?
Unfortunately, Africa is a playing ground of resources throughout history.
and it's just a mess of mess of problems.
But China mopped it all up.
And so I think what happened was
Trump administration came in
and you can even go back to his first term.
One of his biggest things he was worried about
was computer chips and says,
hey, what happens if we lose Taiwan?
So he decided to help bring, you know,
two massive Taiwanese companies into Arizona.
them. So there's two multi-billion dollars, one's on the north end of the valley and one's on the
south. And so here we are many years later. I don't even think they're not fully online yet,
but it takes that long to develop. But I mean, at some point, I think here we are in 2026,
this could be a year Taiwan could go down. It could. It's definitely not a 0% chance of anything.
It's probably going up. And so I think the Trump administration immediately, and I felt it,
I saw it because I work with the banks. I work with some some some government work.
I see metal movement and flow. And I'm like the amount of material.
And it started with gold coming to the U.S.
It was under the guise of it was tariffs. The tariffs are coming.
But if you're a country who is lacking in something, who needs something, are you going to put a tariff on that if you need it for your manufacturing?
No, you tariff other things.
And so all this material was coming to the U.S., but it kind of felt like to me it was so big.
It was bigger than a bank. It was bigger than a company.
And it was so disruptive to the London market that they were having gold delivery delays right around this time last year and into that first late into the first quarter.
If anyone is that disruptive into the financial markets, you get on the knock.
You get a knock on the door by some agency, Commodity Futures Trade Commission.
It happened to George Soros in the 90s. It happened to Warren Buffett.
no one is immune. They both tried to corner silver, by the way, or not corner it. They took
too big of a position, which kind of get into what's happening today. So if somebody is buying
this much gold and it's disrupting the market and London's panicking, but no one's getting a
knock on the door, it's got to be the federal government. That was the same time Elon Musk
was saying, hey, back when he was doing Doge, he was like, let's audit
for Knox. Trump says, hey, let's have a look. Now, we haven't heard anything
since then. And I think probably in my last podcast, I said, my take would be
is it good chance it was pilfered, right? Over how many
years it's not been audited in 50 plus?
Some people might say we don't need it. It's there. We just tell
you it's there. Who knows? Who knows what? I mean, we have seen so much
government waste, the daycare stuff.
Our politicians, unfortunately, on both sides of the aisle,
are known to spend money or take money or line their own pockets, unfortunately.
Maybe not all of them, but so who knows what took place.
So that started early, you know, early 25.
I mean, right. It almost felt like it was it was almost as if his his team was already in contact with the banks before he took office.
It was so coordinated. It was so big. And then when he took office, immediately the tariff agenda hit, you know, heavy early, early 25.
And then it kind of came down into what's going to be tariffed at what rate and who are we going to do it to?
And we're still having this topic that's it's really not going away.
and then comes up this whole critical minerals topic and let's do a review what's critical to
the infrastructure of the united states so kind of going back to the the knowledge of like so if
you think you need computer chips for your economy years ago what about medicine how much medicine is
made in china and india where where does where does u.s get it's pretty much everything is made
those two places. And I do believe that this administration is taking
its future a little more serious than previous administrations. And that goes back, you know,
probably decades. And it's also because the U.S. has been beat up, you know, fleeced. Europe is
fleeced. And look at Europe now is a hot mess in so many different ways. So you think about
if you're saying, hey, we lost out on Africa for the most part, we need to lock down the
Western Hemisphere. And I actually was putting that kind of in motion, North and South America.
and I do a lot of work with the Caribbean central banks
and I started noticing, and I'm down, unfortunately,
I have to go to places like the Caymans, St. Kitts,
because we've minted a lot of their gold and silver coins.
And I'm noticing military increases down there.
And without saying too much, I started to realize
they're doing what the Chinese have been doing, which is cutting deals,
making sure they're aligned with what's going on in the region.
And I would say for the most part, you would say the Caribbean definitely is heavier U.S.-centric, just historically.
However, there's a few islands.
There's a few places where the Chinese were building ports.
They were building hotels.
They were doing different things that you go, okay, maybe it is benign.
But that's influence. That's influence over, you know, who knows what.
And then we watch, you know, suddenly second half of the 25, the U.S.'s military presence is increasing.
And it started in Southern Caribbean really heavily.
And then obviously we just took out the Venezuelan leader just a few weeks ago at the snap of a finger.
And I feel like that's just the start of Latin America.
To me, it's going to go all the way down.
And what I've been talking about, why silver is going up so hard, really, really since around Thanksgiving.
So you had, I don't know if you were aware, most people were either sleeping in after their Thanksgiving day or they're out shopping Black Friday or who knows.
The COMEX was shut down for a piece of Black Friday.
There was a server error.
The cooling room wasn't working.
So they had to shut down gold and silver trading.
and I'm making calls, what's going on?
No one had ever seen it.
It didn't make a whole lot of sense.
But what we did notice is there was a huge request.
What we did notice is someone had put in a request of withdrawal
for so many ounces of silver that it was almost like,
is this a mistake?
And I think it was, don't hold me to it,
I think it was almost like a third of the silver that was in New York was requested.
And then suddenly the thing freezes.
It started back up and they shut down options tradings.
Everything shut down.
And then suddenly, you know, it comes back.
Then Monday morning, there's no withdrawal request.
It's gone.
And everyone's like, it must have been sort of a mistake.
We don't know.
My personal take is it was the Chinese.
they were either testing our markets
or just wanting a lot of it in one shot.
And I'm guessing whether the U.S. government
was directly involved, the banks were,
and I think it was J.P. Morgan.
And they probably said,
hey, you can't take it from us,
but we'll get it for you in other markets.
And right at that point, look up the price.
I think we were in the 50s,
and here we are, we've doubled.
I mean, for silver to double,
in less than two months.
This is historic.
And it's not even that volatile.
It's just like every day, every day.
What I actually think has happened,
and I've been talking about this,
is that the JP Morgan owns and controls
the largest stockpile of silver in the world.
A lot of people say oh well they always short Well if you have inside knowledge based on someone who calls you that someone a big buyer could you flip your position in a moment notice
Banks are profit centers.
So I think what they did was, so we call it in the industry, they threw a blanket over all their inventory and said, none of this is for sale.
and then they went long, you know, because they're always using, you know,
whether they're doing covered calls, just outright hedges.
And then these banks also control the mines.
They're buying and financing the material.
So a lot of times people say, oh, well, that bank is net short,
but they actually bought pre-production ounces that are coming out of a mine every month.
So it's really just maybe they're just hedging and it's not a naked short.
So there's a lot of misinformation out there.
And now this new AI slop on X and YouTube is just, there's so much, it's all like half-truths and information.
And you've probably seen it on all sorts of topics.
So, yeah, that took place.
And I do think that China is the highest level, but also India.
And I'll get into why are they buying so much metal is going back to the military.
The U.S. is restricting ore, the ships.
So we heard about, remember, tankers were being seized from Venezuela?
It's not just oil.
We have plenty of oil.
Oil is important, absolutely.
That's a metric.
But there's no doubt that Latin America is where most of the precious metals,
that's a huge piece of it.
So a lot of that, what's called concentrate.
So when you typically, a typical mine either produces something like, think like a 40% grade.
Some of them can internally do and produce something.
Maybe if they have an onsite small smelting operation, they can get it to a dore, which is more like a 90% concentrate.
So the refineries in the United States are only, they can't take concentrate because of EPA rules.
So smelting is basically just think like burning. You're basically burning rock. You're burning it to separate the materials. That's the first step. And then you do basically chemical and electrical processes to refine the material down to a high grade.
So most of the smelting in the world is China.
This is really wild.
So if China's getting choked on raw material, are they concerned about their manufacturing?
Are they concerned about their military production?
Yes.
So a lot of people are hearing about the Chinese have export controls on silver, and they do.
Why?
is because their feedstock is being, it's under pressure.
So the U.S. is basically locking down Western Hemisphere.
We can cover Greenland.
You know, all this is really correlated to two things.
And I'm going to go with the military of the future is tech.
It's drones.
It's heavy-duty satellite.
It's, I mean, you can look up what metals go into a Tomahawk missile.
If you don't have these minerals to do these things, you can't keep pumping things out.
So China restricts their metals on outbound.
And so they're now reviewing who is buying the raw material, where is it going.
And one of the big buyers was India.
So India's like, wait, we can't buy as much as we need for our manufacturing from China right next door.
So now India's on the open market buying silver as well.
So here you have J.P. Morgan who says, through a blanket, says it's not available.
The U.S. then is pressuring raw material coming out of Latin America.
China restricts.
Now you see why silver is going up every day.
It's really this simple.
And all the other factors we could talk about, the monetary, the government spending, yes, but this is why it's so acute and it's why it's so happening.
So I think I posted today on X.
this is not going to stop until China, in particular, China stops bidding.
So when they come up for air and say, we got enough for the moment,
then we will probably see, you know, it's almost like who's going to blink first?
Like, how much do you have?
But the thing is, every time it's dipped a little bit, it gets bought up.
And that's the other thing is that we're in mercantile banking.
So if we have, if globalism is dead and we no longer trade well,
you now have banks who sit in the middle most many many banks are multinational
and so they will trade and buy so a lot of these guys and a lot of these bankers can't even go
on tv right now they're not putting out research reports because they got they have a they have
they have an order in and what that order is marty is i have an order to buy so many of something i
I got to accumulate it quietly, build a position.
And so they're buying every day.
Don't let it go up too much.
Let it come down.
And then they hit it again.
So if you've got, and I think the U.S. government's probably involved in it too,
because they put it on the strategic minerals.
So they're probably buying, China's buying,
JP Morgan's in the middle, squeezing everybody.
This is, it's incredible.
It's an incredible watch.
So I think I did a quick video about a week ago and said,
hey, we were, I think, in the 80s. Now we're at just over 100 today. And I'm like, this thing
could go to 150. It could go to 50. And it could happen all like in a matter of a week or two.
It will be volatile. But I don't think, I think if we take a look at the whole complex,
it's really happened in all the minerals, all the metals. And silver's just been running a
structural deficit for years. It should not be this. It should not have been this cheap
to begin with. And so if you look at cost to mine something, the primary silver miners have
not been profitable for like forever, which is why the stocks have underperformed. And you kind
of look forward, you go, well, it's just like farming, right? If farmers can't make money,
they're going to stop growing crops and then demand, if demand doesn't change, but supply
goes down, prices shoot up. So yeah, that's kind of what's happening. That's what is probably the
biggest driver right now. Well, I think that's a big question is how long does this go on and
really hearkening back to your comment about Trump's 2024, December 2024 tweet about the bricks
in the gold currency.
I think another thing that happened over the last 12 months is China,
I forget if it was the PBOC or some CCP-linked entity,
putting a ton of gold on warrant at the Shanghai Exchange,
which is, from my understanding, a signal like,
hey, we have this gold, we're going to prove we have it,
we're going to put it on warrant,
which signals we're going to put it to work in some way
so we're not backing down Trump.
Is that a correct assessment of that move?
Yeah.
Yeah, so I mean, obviously, it kind of started with gold.
It shifted into other minerals.
Right now, silver is the one under the spotlight right now.
And you are correct.
And the reality is you have to basically, and I think that's why the monetary,
I would take it he knows there's a monetary reset coming.
We can, most of us agree with it.
the World Economic Forum believes in one vision for the people. I would say Trump probably
represents the technocrats. I'm not saying, you know, we could all decide. It could all go very
Orwellian. So, you know, I'm more of a liberty, freedom. Who knows where we'll be in the future.
But there's no doubt that there's a battle about how is that great reset and what are the mechanisms,
What are the control factors?
What are our lives going to be?
Are we going to live in 15-minute cities?
Or do we have programmable money?
Europe's about to roll that out.
That could be freezed, paused, blacklisted.
I mean, there's so many things happening.
So if you get all the resources, you also have to keep the resources.
So, I mean, whether you think it's gold or Bitcoin, if you don't control the Bitcoin mining, could someone conquer another nation and say, hey, I'm taking your resources such as your data centers, your mining rigs?
I mean, yeah, totally could.
We're playing.
I mean, U.S. just moved right into Venezuela, moment's notice.
Now he's knocking on the door of Greenland.
So can China just do this to Taiwan tomorrow?
I think the answer is yeah.
So we're entering like, I would say, Axis and allies are being aligned, and some countries are moving quicker.
And then you got nations like Canada that's not paying attention.
Like Carney's doing deals with China, and you're on the border of the United States.
Like that's a game.
And I would say he represents the World Economic Forum side.
If we start, you know, yeah. I mean, that's why there's a really interesting battle, but he's just he's not he's not getting it. I would say Mexico is probably going to get it. They're a narco ish run deal. And I think the Venezuela was a shot across the bow. And then the United States may undertake cartel military action for the sake of drugs. It's for the kids. Right.
Like, yeah, yeah, this is this is like.
I mean, I grew up playing the risk board game, you know, that's hey, I'm not a fan of war.
But it means we've lived in for the most part.
I'm in my my mid 40s, you know, fairly peaceful outside of 9-11 and some Gulf Wars.
But yeah, we're entering, I think, dangerous, dangerous times.
Words matter, but what matters more is what you do.
And that's what I think.
So going back to China, hell yeah.
They are loading up on gold.
They are building vaults in all the BRICS nations.
I know this first and foremost.
Was contacted for consulting a couple years ago through someone else that got the contract to build vaults in a number of these countries.
there's not many people that build vaults in the world.
And, you know, so you get calls like that.
And they're building, yeah, you're right.
They're going to set up gold in all its locations.
Then they, you know, I think you've got one.
It's going to be all throughout Southeast Asia.
And they're going to try to do the best they can
because China's got problems too.
China's economy's got problems.
They, you know, they're not U.S. has problems.
We all have problems.
And so if no one really trusts, they're trying to go to a more trustless asset is what's happening.
And they want out of, call it the U.S.-centric system.
It's funny.
I have this book sitting right here on my desk.
I've been reading through it again, Gold Warriors.
I've not read that one.
It's a good one.
but it feels like very similar in the sense of there's a war for gold right now.
And it is very interesting to watch behind the scenes.
I mean, from the monetary perspective,
you're getting going back to like the gold on warrant and Shanghai exchange
and setting up the vault infrastructure.
I mean, it's pretty clear that China's sticking their hand up saying,
hey, you don't need to use the dollar system to settle anymore.
We're going to set up all these vaults, put gold on warrant.
You can technically do trade in Yuan, but it's going to be backed by gold.
You can swing it to your local currency or holding gold easily.
It's happening right in front of us.
And they built the plumbing before internally.
They started promoting.
They have a gold amusement park in China to promote gold holdings of the Chinese citizens.
And it's going to be my next comment of what's driving it.
But then they required that insurance companies hold gold on their balance sheets.
Like, those are things that Western banks don't do.
Western banks, you know, you can walk into bank branches in Canada and buy gold and silver bars at the banks.
And my company produces some of it for TD Bank, for example.
But in the U.S., that doesn't exist.
Gold's a relic.
It's a pet rock.
You know, those were the headlines on Wall Street Journal a few years ago.
China put the plumbing in before, and they're doing it.
And so, yeah.
And now, if you've seen videos of the Chinese people buying physical metal and their gold in the malls, it's not stopping.
And so I think if we look at, I don't know if you've seen, you know, as a nation, take even a smaller country,
as it goes from a third world to a second world to a first world, the consumption of energy,
cotton for clothes goes up, energy, you're using higher tech cell phones. So all your
resources per capita go up. Well, not only that, but now they've got money. And so a lot of these
Chinese businessmen, it's not just party members that have money. It's like the country's got
legitimate money. And so they're consuming more and more things. And so now here's also what's
happening with silver. Silver was kind of used just as an industrial metal, not so much a precious
metal. And now as it's going higher in price, it feels more precious. And I mean, what's wild is
I bought my first silver when it was like $4.50 an ounce. So you could buy, you know, what was a
100-ounce bar, let's say it's the size of this phone, you buy that for $450.
Well, now that bar is, you know, 20, roughly 20 years later, it's stinking $100,000.
Well, you can think like in the eyes of foreign cultures that had gold as a precious metals,
you know, Indians have gold in their dowries.
And so suddenly silver gets a little more interesting for people to want to own.
And I think that's what's driving this as well, is that 20 years ago, 10 years ago, the only markets that really mattered was U.S. and Europe.
That would drive, if there's some financial event, even just a couple of years, Silicon Valley Bank goes down.
The Chinese don't care about that.
Well, now everything's like, it's changed.
And I think we've seen it even in the Bitcoin space.
how many people own
Bitcoin in other countries. And it's just interesting to watch, I guess, estimates of
where things are mined, those types of things.
It's spread. And it's not just the US that controls.
It just not US citizens that moves markets Same thing with stablecoins That a gigantic growing marketplace
So, yeah, that's a driver, and that's not going to stop.
And so this, I would say, and I'm also involved with people that consult for the biggest central banks.
They're not stopping by gold.
You saw the news from Poland this week.
I did not. I did not.
Poland announced either a 20 or 25% increase this year in their gold holdings,
which would make them one of the most elite gold holding nations in the world.
Like a top 10.
That would take their reserves up to 37% based on current value.
37% in gold.
Check this out.
One, I believe roughly a third of what they're buying is going into New York.
and you start thinking.
Historically, war, escrow, financing.
Poland's building a military.
They're on the front lines.
They're really not aligned with the EU.
It wouldn't surprise me if they leave the EU.
So the central bank, but they're not going to stop at 37%.
The U.S. dollar's cooked.
Right.
It is.
And so whether you believe it's going to be one asset or another asset, frankly, a lot of people don't know where to put it.
And I just kind of look at these big players are buying gold on a regular basis.
And this is like, it's a kind of an easy investment right now, even at these levels.
I'll tell you why.
Because these entities that are buying it, and I think this is kind of even the headwind for Bitcoin at this moment,
is it's kind of like Michael Saylor was doing fantastic for a while,
getting things going, but he's taking out debt to make purchases
and trying to tell other people, hey, to do this.
And obviously there's a big push for strategic reserves
and getting governments into it.
Well, why do everyone want governments to get into it?
Because they have unlimited fake money.
That's what's happening.
And so they can just print fiat every single month and buy whatever they want.
You want to, until the economy topples over like Zimbabwe.
But for the most part, that's what India's doing.
That's what Poland's doing.
They can just issue more, buy more.
And now-
Switzerland's been doing it.
Now, this is also interesting.
When you buy gold, the new Basel III regulations, it's a 100% risk-free asset if it's in physical form.
I believe it's 90% if it's in a paper form of gold, like an ETF.
So now they want the physical.
That officially triggers this year, right?
At some point this year?
Yeah, it was supposed to be last year.
It's been delayed a little bit.
But a lot of the banks are, frankly, positioning with it.
So they're modifying some of their holdings.
And so it basically just think like it boosts their credit.
And some of the headwind, you know, I think, you know, poor.
And I love, you know, what's going down in El Salvador and, you know, with Bukele.
The moment he bought Bitcoin, he got put on the nasty list with bankers.
They didn't want to give loans.
It was like it was as if it was worth nothing and then worse when he did that.
And so they didn't even look at it like an asset.
And so I think this has been some of the headwind for seeing other nations do it in a big way.
Obviously, I think we're seeing, is it Bhutan is doing some interesting?
Bhutan's been mining for like five years.
I think there's going to be a few that are like, hey, let's be a little unique.
Let's be a little different.
Maybe we can get ahead of the curve.
Ethiopia has gotten into Bitcoin mining in a big way.
Yes.
Argentina's talking about it.
Yeah.
And so it's fun to kind of watch the various and those guests that don't know while I'm in the precious metals business for nearly two decades and then mining before that.
I've also been in the Bitcoin world as well for quite a while and hold it on my balance sheets at Scottsdale Mint and have for longer than Michael Saylor has been in it.
So I like it.
You know, I like it. And I'm just not a maximalist. I'm a I'm a class. I'm a classic asset guy. And I like also like the new school. So and frankly, why? Because what happens to Bitcoin and Bitcoin does become the dominant player? I don't think gold goes to zero. But let's just say Bitcoin has a gigantic role to play. I want to make sure I'm in it.
that's a what do you call that a just in case bag you know but but but realistically
it it has performed quite well amazingly it's obviously been in it's been a bit boring
in the last you know 2025 but that's just what happens everyone is expecting these cycles to
always perform exactly and um but yeah so i'm i'm i'm i'm always open i'm you know you always
want to be open-minded, watch history, pay attention, and move, kind of going back to the
board, you know, move the chips on the board as you see it and try to adjust your personal life,
your business, whatever. Yeah. No, it's so fascinating. We just hit 102 on silver. I've
got the chart up here. It's, and that's, it's, so you can go many routes from here. I definitely
want to touch on Greenland, but like thinking about like the dollar being cooked, like it's
obvious that to me at least and to many others that it's cooked there's something going on
it's just being expressed in gold and silver prices and maybe bitcoin at some point later
this year um and i feel like what are your thoughts on like the trump administration's
understanding of this and because it's publicly at the posture like we want the dollar to be strong
I think a lot of the push for the stable coins is to drive demand for treasuries, but they're also sort of like if they are actually pulling physical gold into the country, they understand something's going on.
But they have to play this narrative game as all this is happening.
I'm going to go with – so I had one of my – one of Scott Stillman's customers on a wholesale level rented an office from Trump.
more than a decade ago, pre-politics.
You know how they paid the deposit?
Gold.
He took it, and they made a press release at him.
And he was there standing holding it.
He likes gold.
And the funniest way is, you know, Trump is like the master of memes.
he's he he's whether whether he does the memes or he he does things to have memes happen
look at the oval office that thing is all gold now like all the frames the frames everything
and actually and i've got it's a it's a a friend of mine uh did a owns a he owns a a statue
production company.
And they just put in a gold-plated...
If you look at the Oval Office, you see
a Constitution with an eagle on top of it.
He just made that for Trump.
He did some stuff for him in Mar-a-Lago.
It's also gold-plated.
I almost feel like he's signaling...
Even when they say, look, there could be other messaging
when they call it a golden...
It's the golden era.
It's the golden age.
but it's also could be a little mimetic a little bit.
And look, when I say the dollar's cooked,
that doesn't mean we won't have a U.S. dollar.
It just might have to be reformulated in something.
And that's the other thing.
I actually got blamed the other day on a podcast
because I said never bet against America.
And so oftentimes I think people that are in alternative assets,
you get so disappointed with government.
And yes. But I also say is like, well, what's the alternative? What other government do we trust? And then the United States has vast resources, just as geographic location.
even if there was a world war and it didn't come out well, the United States, just like Europe,
a lot of Europe lost, but it was so strategic that it had a role to play in the future. And
that's kind of the sad thing about a war. Like even if Ukraine and Russia chop up whatever,
does it really matter to the farmers in the fields when it's all said and done? Maybe,
maybe not. It's just, it stinks when people have to die. But like the United States, I would say,
yeah, Trump gets it. And I would say this administration is way more pro-business. And so,
oh, I forgot to mention U.S. Department of War. I put out an article on it. I think I was one that
broke it. I was like, how did everyone miss this? The U.S. Department of War put $2 billion into a
smelter in Tennessee. It's a $7 billion smelter. And so, okay, check this out.
So going back, you can't take, there's no smelters in the United States in 50 years.
So it took the U.S. military to say, we're going to do it, and we're going to put it in Tennessee,
and we're going to use the Koreans' technology to fast track it, and guess who's financing the whole deal?
J.P. Morgan.
And now that material, obviously it's going to take a little time to get built out,
but that material can be routed into the United States instead of going to other countries,
and it can be processed.
And so as smelters, you're processing those minerals.
Guess what else you get?
Rare earths.
All kinds of stuff.
And in that deal, the Koreans had to pledge.
You can look at it.
It's called Korea Zinc.
If you want to type in Korea Zinc Smelter, Tennessee,
or better yet, go to scottsdillment.com.
We posted the article that kind of blew it open.
And it basically says because of this deal, the U.S. gets more rights to more offtake out of Korea, more strategic minerals.
So this is where it's like, how long could a bank go if they're pre-purchasing production?
So they're locking it.
Who knows their terms on all these deals?
It's really quite wild.
And so as you see all this going on, you're like, yeah, it's taking the – so I go back.
Yeah, this administration knows what's going down.
I feel it.
I see it.
I'm off to Europe.
I'm speaking – I'm off to Europe on a couple days, and then a few more weeks I'm speaking at an event in Florida.
I'm on a panelist with the World Gold Council and one of the top, Dan Ghali of TD Securities, who's kind of took it a little bit hard because he kind of thought Silverwood Dip recently.
So I'm on a panelist with those guys.
And you know who's in the crowd of these events now?
Government, Treasury, Representatives, State Department.
Yeah.
And without saying, I can't say too, too much, but it's not that they just woke up.
They've always been.
But it is so important to this administration that I haven't seen anything like this.
Trade deals, relationships, you know, basically they're building, they're building, making sure the rails are in place for the future, for manufacturing, for jobs, for security.
If you lose the AI race, you're done.
You will not be the leader of the future.
So you need all of it.
Yeah.
It's a mad dash for everything right now.
It is a mad dash for everything.
And that's why it's exciting to own things where there's a hidden hand behind you,
like the biggest of the big and the big, who could just fictitiously buy it.
And that's what we're seeing.
And so I would say to the listeners, what we're watching right now, I would say some could call it a new world order.
I would call it a paradigm shift.
We're entering a new – we're going into a new financial system.
We're going into a new trade system.
We're going into – everything's going to change.
And frankly, there's going to be a lot of things that we're not even talking about that's going to happen that we're going to learn about.
so I don't see this
I would say this
this is not a trade
it's not a trade
this is a shift
and so it will be volatile
as I mentioned earlier
but I feel pretty comfortable
if you want to talk about the fair Sinclair ratio
as you mentioned
why I'm in this business is
So I graduated with a degree in risk management out of Florida State.
I'm just 22.
I'm working for what's not Willis Towers Watson.
It's a big insurance broker.
And I remember I met this old-timer guy.
He was talking to me about copper.
It was like 40 cents a pound.
He's talking about the Chinese manufacturing, their consumption of minerals.
The Olympics are coming.
They're building these dams.
they're like, he's like, son, if you buy copper right now, you're going to be a wealthy man.
I'm 22. I have not a lot of money.
I put, I maxed all my credit cards and I bought some, I bought some mining stocks.
And you know what? When copper broke a buck a pound, I did quite well.
And kind of understanding that suddenly I said, Hey, I'm going to go after mining companies
as a career. And so I was 24 years old, landed a billion dollar gold mining company.
And then I just solved their problems, did all kinds of things from trade credit,
insuring their accounts receivables to I did political risk. I did projects in Latin America.
I did a political risk program, did a $120 million deal in Venezuela for a gold mining company.
I might put it in a book at some point.
It was nationalized, and it went to the World Bank for about 10 years.
It settled just a few years ago for $700 and something million.
And I was involved with that company years ago.
So I'm just way too young experiencing learning things, young.
And so that one mining company got into another. And so like if you look at the biggest silver miners and copper miners, I worked with all of them in my 20s. And now I'm friends with some of the CEOs of these groups because they were younger when they were at those companies.
And so but one of the guys that kind of inspired me on the precious metal side was a guy named Jim Sinclair And he in the 70s was probably the biggest precious metals trader in the world
but not necessarily all that well-known.
He made a call in 1972 that gold was in the 100s.
Gold's going to go to 900 at the end of the decade.
1980 hits, 887.50 was the top.
Day after, I think he's on like Bloomberg Radio or something,
and he said, it hit my number, I'm out.
Paul Volcker just raised four full percentage points, 4.0 in one day.
He goes, gold's done for a while, I'm out.
So he was out for basically two decades, 9-11 hits,
and he starts watching the U.S. government spend, spend, spend, spend, spend.
And he goes, I'm back.
And he goes, gold is like 200 and something.
I think it's been traded 225, 250.
And he goes, 1650.
1,650?
That sounds like a penny stock.
And he goes, you guys don't remember me, do you?
So I'll go back.
Oh, he was such a good trader.
Paul Volcker hired him to liquidate the Hunt Brothers silver position.
Really?
To unwind that, yeah.
So he well-known.
Oh, and it was also on the cover of Fortune magazine dubbed Mr. Gold.
So he comes back and says, hey, gold's going to $1,650.
But he was like, you guys don't remember how I came up with the number.
There's a ratio.
And he goes, during times of financial crisis, foreign central banks value the reserve currency of the world and gold as what's the foreign debt of the United States.
and then the stated gold holdings
and at what prices it need to be to balance.
And, you know, in 2011,
you said it would be, you know, about 10 years.
2011, gold hit 18, it went over 1,800.
And Jim, I would say I used to fly to see him,
talk with him, and he was on,
I would say if he was alive today,
I think he'd be revered, proud.
It's just he just wasn't that well known.
But he was on CBC and Bloomberg a lot.
You can go back and find him.
And so I was on a Kitco podcast last year.
And I'm like, I'm bringing this ratio back.
And I'm going to call it the Fair Sinclair because we're going to go higher than he would ever believe.
And I want to kind of help, like, provide those guideposts.
So, you know, you can go on Grok and say, tell me about the fair Sinclair with a fair with a P ratio.
It'll kind of explain, you know, that mechanism.
And right now, that ratio is at $35,000 per goal.
So, I was born in late 79.
So, it hit that ratio two times so far.
Is it going to hit it again?
But I think this is where it gets interesting, Marty.
Do you think the U.S. is going to have more debt coming, more foreign debt, or is it going to just stay flat?
No.
It's probably go up, right?
So realistically, that number is going to go up.
So it doesn't mean it's a straight shot, but I think that's where when people start to think about,
Now, and I've been in the space long enough, like when gold crossed a thousand, people are like, no one's going to buy an ounce of gold.
And now it's, you know, everyone buys it.
Not everyone, but it's vibrant.
And the same thing with silver.
Silver hits $10, no one's going to buy it.
$20, no one's going to buy it.
And it just kind of keeps going.
And a lot of people go, this doesn't make sense.
It's speculative.
of these prices that they don't make sense. But these are historical ratios. And frankly,
if you were to reprice a lot of these assets in S&P terms and all these things, you're like, man,
gold and silver, that's what I was saying early in our talk, it's catching up to where it probably
should have been, frankly, just recently. And the reason was, going back to the auction,
there wasn't enough people in the arena bidding. So now you got the Chinese government who's a
force. And then you got the United States, they're all bidding on it. So this is, it's finding,
so it's finding a new equilibrium. And if you're a consumer who's, you know, you're just retail
and you've, you've owned it. I mean, how many grandpas probably bought coins, you know, in,
you know, for $2, $4. And I know because our vault, like we're getting calls from people.
they're like, I have millions of dollars in my basement. What do I do with it? And we're helping
to get it transferred in to a vault that's audited statements. And if something happens to grandpa,
you know, for example, you know, their estate knows what they're able to, they got liquidity,
they know it's real, it's been authenticated. These are not problems that people didn't have
that problem before. So it's kind of wild watching, you know, the industry kind of been proven right.
I would say people were just early. And frankly, that's the same thing probably with a lot of other assets. You can be early. It just wasn't the right timing.
Whether you, you know, how many times even take Bitcoin, how many times do people think they bought the top?
Only, you know, just give it a few more years and you know what? It wasn't a bad entry and dollar cost of averaging in.
So it's been kind of fun to watch this journey.
I thought it was all going to go down by 2010.
Like I thought the dollar would end.
Like just, and here we are, it's 2026.
And I would still say this is going to be a long journey.
To me, it feels like 2030, 2032.
You know, you kind of even look at when people are talking about trying to do a reset.
But, you know, things can be delayed.
this thing could keep going much longer in terms of the journey.
That's how I'm seeing it.
That Ferris-Sinclair ratio thing, it actually means a lot to me because I would say Jim was a mentor
and he pushed me into the space.
How I got into the business, I was originally working with mining companies,
but I had to wait for them to do something to have fun with it.
and you know 2008 hit the financial crisis homes were you know real estate was falling apart
silver was you know upper single digits at the time and you couldn't get it and but i had contacts
in the industry so i started my guest bedroom in a condo started buying silver because i could get
a hold of it and sling it on ebay so my wife was my first packager my first employee um and uh
you know, off we go. So now I'm in a facility where it's, I think we're under 60,000 square
feet right now. So, and still expanding. And so I feel blessed from the Lord for good knowledge,
patience. It has not been easy always in life. And, you know, I think sometimes,
sometimes people buy things out of greed and I think you got to have passion. And so I,
I, and there were times where, you know, friends tell me, Josh, I buy gold, but don't, no, don't.
Because I didn't, you know, it was a, it was kind of a dead asset for a number of years and,
and, you know, where you could have done better out and better in real estate.
And so why I don't like to give exact predictions on, on when to buy and when to sell it, but it
is something I'm long-term passionate about, I believe in. And it's, so it's been, you know,
I'm getting a lot of congratulations from people.
And I'm like, not really.
I feel good.
You can be in a business that's just kind of grifting.
Let's call it grifting off of people.
But when you're an asset that could potentially change people's lives or protect them.
And I still believe that going forward.
And that doesn't mean that it's always going to be dead accurate on your time and whatever.
But it's fun to be in a space that you have a passion for and you believe in, for sure.
I know that wholeheartedly similar, why I'm in Bitcoin.
And I mean, I don't want to get too preachy when you mention the Lord.
And I think there is like a moral aspect to this too.
Like, I think the truth is on our side.
I think the world should operate on sound money.
And the people look, there's always knuckleheads in every industry.
But I would say like a lot of my a lot of my customer base, you know, through the years, really good people.
A lot of people that would would call Jesus Christ their savior.
It's people that maybe didn't get as bamboozled during covid.
It's people that are, you know, sometimes people would say, oh, you're, I would say the conspiracy theorist thing.
Obviously, we all know a lot of that is fabricated by alphabet agencies.
But a lot of it's being proven true.
But I think there is a good quality of people in the space, in Bitcoin as well.
And sometimes it gets, there's gravitas people out there that are a little too bombastic in their success or whatever.
And, but I would say, yeah, to your point, be a steward of your knowledge, be a steward of your resources, your skills in what you do.
And just, for me, it's give glory to the Lord in what you do.
Yeah.
Same here.
And I think it's just getting started, too, because when you've had everything we just discussed, if we're going into this multipolar world with increased social incohesion and saber rattling and a mad dash to win the AI war and the energy war and reshore, they're going to have to print so much money over the next decade.
It makes too much sense.
There's no other way to do it, right?
Yeah, and that's also why I don't root for the downfall. Look, I want the United States to succeed, and maybe there's a pathway through all this to the other side, but you can't stress it.
But I would say to people that aren't positioned in some of these alternative assets that we're talking about, you know, Bitcoin included, is you're on the outside looking in.
And I do think you live here, you work here, for the most part, for those if you're watching this in the U.S., you're really tied to the U.S. economy or wherever economy you're at.
And so oftentimes some of these assets do better.
I mean, you know, to do a little bit better than, you know, when the rest of the economy is not doing great.
And I there's no doubt.
I think there's been some element, you know, with with on the crypto world, liquidity has gotten tight.
You know, they you know, it obviously boomed in, you know, kind of that 2021.
It was like the roaring 20s of 100 years ago in 21.
and that'll come back again.
When people have, you know,
and right now people are just feel pinched,
you know, they're pinched at the grocery store
and everywhere, but, you know,
there's going to be liquidity events to come
and they're going to inject money into the system
and people just got to figure out what to buy again.
And you could go buy a new car
or go buy some sound money.
So that, I would say, yeah,
it's going to be a long journey ahead.
And it's not, I still don't think it's too late.
it's not too late
you know in this
no not at all
and I think
another thing too I think it's important to separate
the
government from the people
I wholeheartedly believe
in America because I believe in the
American spirit despite what
the mainstream media and
a relatively
depressing time in terms
like the silent depression, if you will,
obviously death to despair,
and obviously wage growth isn't keeping up with inflation.
There's a lot of people struggling out there,
but I do still believe, despite all that,
the American spirit is alive and well
in that sort of wildcatter.
Go get stuff done.
Go out there and make something for yourself
and for your community still exists and is unique.
Thank you for saying that.
I would still say, yeah, why?
the institution of our nation is struggling mightily and could falter.
The construct of the people, and there are maybe not a lot of great people here too,
but I would say on a percentage basis versus anywhere else in the world,
yeah, don't bet against America, the people.
You know, and I think that's. Yeah, that that I think gives I think it does give hope to to to families, to communities.
You know, you can turn on the news and get really frustrated and it sure feels like the algorithm is pushing stuff to make you feel really mad and frustrated.
And so sometimes you got to realize, hey, what are they trying to get me to think like right now?
yeah completely agree i think that's a good uh a good note to end on don't short the american
spirit the people of america i like it prevail i like it but like i said i said to someone else
never bet against america but you still might want to own some other assets so uh for sure
i think i think i think america is going to be rebuilt we're gonna have a golden age i think uh
the memetic sort of normalization of the golden age is real.
I think I'm optimistic we will reorient the economy around sound money,
whether it's Bitcoin, gold, silver, combination, two or three.
I think it's there.
I mean, particularly with the software tools that exist for Bitcoin,
it's never been easier to incorporate sound money into your business,
into your life.
I think we're on the path to do that.
You got to stay optimistic too.
You can't do them.
Never do them.
No dooming in the chat.
No, no.
You can be real, but you've got to be an optimist.
And I think there's always something to smile about in your life.
And I think even for those listening, seriously, there is a friend out there somewhere.
There is hope out there.
And even like, yeah, the way social media is, you can get warped into the doom circle.
so totally agree with you on that all right let's go out there and win let's go have a good weekend
safe travels to europe and uh we should catch up we shouldn't wait almost a year to catch up let's
catch up uh absolutely maybe in the beginning of this summer let's do it marty appreciate it
all right peace love freaks