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Like I just said, eight years in the making.

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It's a pleasure to be here, Marty, and yeah, it's a real long time coming.

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Well, the pleasure is mine.

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It's hard to treat you like you're a guest because you're such a good friend.

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I've often referred to you, and I truly mean this, and I think it stays true to this day,

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that you are the most underrated man in Bitcoin because of all the work

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that you've been doing behind the scenes, first at Cash App, and now at Block more broadly.

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And we're here today at Cash App Releases, the event announcing everything that the Cash App team is working on and releasing.

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And I don't want any spoilers. This will come out after it.

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But it's pretty sick what you guys are launching.

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But not only at Cash App, I was at the Proto release party in Georgia in August.

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That was incredible, I think.

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The Bitcoin mining community and industry is very excited for you guys getting into the hardware business there.

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And obviously, over the last week, Square point of sale terminals have released Bitcoin

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functionalities to all Square sellers across the country.

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So you guys have been shipping like crazy this year.

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It's been a wild couple of weeks, couple of days, couple of weeks and even months.

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But it's a core principle of Block Inc., the parent company of all these Bitcoin initiatives.

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initiatives, but it's a core principle to show, not tell.

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And so, yeah, it kind of blows my mind as well that this is kind of my first

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real podcast that I've done, but I couldn't,

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I wouldn't have done it with anybody else just because of our long history

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together and just like our deep, deep friendship in,

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since the early days of Bitcoin, trying to will this thing into existence.

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Well, we were just talking about it.

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I think we need to tell some more stories because I think many people got into Bitcoin, particularly post-2020, don't understand how hard it was being a Bitcoiner.

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And from the 2013 to 2019 era, I would say, I think when Saylor came in, when stimulus checks started hitting post-COVID, people really began to realize the profundity of Bitcoin and why they should hold it as an asset and use it as money.

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but before then it was like we were wandering in the desert trying to convince people that this is something worth paying attention to.

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It was a very lonely endeavor, totally.

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And Twitter was often the place, Twitter is where I met you.

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And for many years it felt like kind of screaming out into the void.

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None of my friends really cared to listen to me or were convinced enough.

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I was the crazy Bitcoin friend for many, many years.

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And I think there's something about Bitcoiners, especially early Bitcoiners,

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where they have the tenacity within them to stick with their beliefs.

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I feel like we've always known in the back of our heads, like, are we a little crazy?

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But no, no, no, this really makes sense.

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But it was a lonely process for a long time and I remember a lot of those early days on

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Twitter feeling so relieved where there's people like you that understand the intellectual

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journey that I've similarly been on, can understand the social isolation in many cases of not

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being able to talk to your family or your friends, your college professors or people

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that you think are smart that should have grokked this thing, but is a very solitary

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mission.

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But I think it's made us all really strong in the long run.

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But yeah, I look back fondly of the days of Twitter of feeling it's like, oh, Marty

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Bent, my first real Bitcoin friend, or Matt Odell, or Jack Mallers, Mr. Hoddle.

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These are the first people that I relate to and feel like deep, deep connection intellectually,

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but also sort of like spiritually as we hopped on this mission together.

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Yeah, as you're describing that journey, it's very ironic, the correct word, but the

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fact that we all met on Twitter, which was founded by Jack Dorsey, and then we're here

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discussing what you guys are building a block, which was also founded by Jack Dorsey, is

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incredibly poetic in a way because similarly, I was in this city. I lived in New York at

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the time. I'd been into Bitcoin since college. I was in Chicago, but I came here and I was

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just by myself on the internet, obsessed with looking for others. And obviously there was

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public Twitter conversations, but sometimes the best conversations happen in DMs where

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it's like, okay, what do we need to do? And I think you're an incredible example of someone

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who saw the big vision and is using your knowledge and your expertise and your ability to build

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things to join a large company like Block and basically imbue it with Bitcoin. And obviously

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Jack is all on board and this is part of the DNA of the Block family of businesses. And I think

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for people who haven't or aren't familiar with the sort of timeline of the integration of Bitcoin

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across blocks companies, maybe it's a good time to just describe what the early days of Cash App

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were like and why you guys decided to lean into Bitcoin. Sure. And I just want to start with

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saying I don't think there's any company in the world doing more for Bitcoin than Block Inc. And

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I appreciate you recognizing the way we've approached this.

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And we've always tried to do it with a ton of principle and with the long run in mind.

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For us, for me, for Jack, for everybody working on Bitcoin at the company,

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the mission is so much more important than the money.

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And we try to keep that core to what we're doing at all times.

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And I mean, like, the gains when I say the money.

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because we believe that Bitcoin's ultimate destiny is to become what Satoshi wanted,

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peer-to-peer electronic cash.

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And so one of our overarching company missions is to make Bitcoin everyday money.

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And we've taken really intentional steps over the eight years that I've been at the company

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to really push forward that evolution sequentially.

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and it started in 2017 when I joined Cash App. Jack and Donji, our current CTO, were doing a

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Hack Week project. Jack had asked him, can you integrate Bitcoin into Cash App? And Cash App

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was really small. At this time, it was an email-to-email-based system that was just kind of

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piloted internally for moving money around and was kind of at the very early stages.

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Maybe a bit more, a bit beyond that, but that's how it started a couple of years before.

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And I knew someone on the Cash App side and for years I'd wanted to work in Bitcoin.

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And as I said to many of my friends from college, I was the crazy Bitcoin friend that they wanted

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to shut up talking about it as the night got later on the weekends or at the bar.

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Like eventually, I think you and many listeners can relate is that once you get the mind virus,

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it's like everything ultimately comes back to Bitcoin and you just want and you want to share

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it with everybody. And so I annoyed all of my friends for a long time, but at least that

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reputation stuck in because when they wanted to production, I was bringing Bitcoin to cash out

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to actual customers, there wasn't a ton of DNA on the team.

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And so my friend introduced me to Jack, introduced me to the leadership team at Cash App.

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And I joined in June and helped productionize that and bring it to market as the first public

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company to support Bitcoin, period.

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And why do you think it was important for a company like Cash App at the time to do that,

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having been in Bitcoin for many years at that point?

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Well, for me, it was just an amazing opportunity.

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I'd wanted to work in Bitcoin for years,

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but there weren't a lot of jobs available.

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I had applied to Coinbase in 2013,

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but it was mostly engineering,

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and they were small and the future is super uncertain.

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I just started another job as well.

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And so it's hard to look back,

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or for people that are newer, it's hard to understand

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how uncertain things felt

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way back in the day. And I think we owe a lot of that certainty and conviction

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and stability now to a lot of the early moves

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of companies like Cash App and the many, many other

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contributors that helped get us to this point. But I mean, there were unbelievable

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hurdles to jump through as the first public company.

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not only regulatory wise, not just with the government, but even internally within Square.

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It was just Square at the time. Square SQ was what had IPO'd, what everybody knew was the big brand.

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And CashUp was the little brother within the company and was actually losing a ton of money.

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It was actually potentially disastrous for the entire company if they didn't find a sustainable business model.

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But right around that same time on Cash App, things started to click and I wouldn't credit it all to Bitcoin

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or even most of it to Bitcoin. Bitcoin certainly provided a nice boost there and brought a lot of attention to it to the broader

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sort of market and audience. But right around that time we clicked and found a sustainable growth model as well and

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it really coincided that we took on like

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exponential growth at that point.

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So almost from the day I started,

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it was kind of strap your seatbelt in and get going.

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And ultimately, we're now at the point,

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we scaled like crazy over the last six, eight,

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I mean four, like throughout my entire time,

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we've been scaling like crazy.

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And I remember talking with Owen,

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who's now head of business across all of Block, Inc.

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But we looked at each other in 2017 or 2018,

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and Apple had just come out with their wallet.

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Venmo was so far ahead of us in terms of people

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knowing where they were and actual user counts and volume

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and all of them.

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We looked at each other and it's like,

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if we do this, if we actually catch these guys,

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this is going to be crazy.

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This is going to be some sort of movie, looking back on it.

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And at this point, we're at 58 million monthly users.

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We're one of the biggest debit card programs in all of the US.

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And so it's been an incredible journey integrating Bitcoin into this ecosystem,

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but also growing that broader ecosystem as well.

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Yeah.

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The stat I just saw downstairs, you've helped 24 million customers get on board to Bitcoin as well.

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Some of it may be small, but some of it's certainly large.

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Well, that's actually one of the things I'm most proud about in terms of

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Who does Cash App serve and who are its customers?

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It's not people on Wall Street for the most part.

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It's not people that have a lot of financial privilege.

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It's Americans from a hugely diverse set of backgrounds, whether geographically, socioeconomically.

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And for me, that's what Bitcoin has always been about, getting better money into the hands of the people,

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not the corporations, not the government or the hedge funds.

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It's like Bitcoin is for the people.

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And that's kind of always been core to my ethos in this space.

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Thinking back to 2017 when you joined and launched Bitcoin and Cash App,

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at the time Bitcoin was eight years old, which is crazy to think.

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It's like incredibly young, nascent distributed protocol to really lean into.

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So the fact that you guys had that forward-looking view

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and took the risk lean in at that time.

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Again, I will say like as a Bitcoiner,

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when you guys started leaning into it,

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I was like, this is exactly what we need.

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Some legitimacy from a brand that is perceived

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by most people in the United States

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to be completely legitimate.

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Where at the time, every exchange

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was sort of a startup that nobody could really trust.

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But with that being said,

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launched eight years into the protocol.

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It's been eight years since almost exactly to the date.

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And Bitcoin's evolved a lot. The protocols evolved. The layers on top of the protocol have evolved, which has enabled you guys to enable a lot more features, particularly around Bitcoin, lightning payments, send, receive being one of the biggest that I can think of.

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But we were talking about this downstairs.

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This year, across the block, sub-companies or a family of companies,

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it's been incredibly impressive to watch the speed at which you've been shipping,

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not only the Bitcoin-related products just in general,

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but as it pertains to the Bitcoin-related products.

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Is that a function of just organizational efficiency that been gained over the years or do you guys think the timing is right for these products to be released and there an opportunity to take advantage of So the point I left a little unfinished before when talking about cash being a small

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part of Square at that time was that we faced a lot of internal opposition, even.

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Bitcoin's boiling in the ocean.

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Bitcoin is X.

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Bitcoin is Y. And getting alignment at a big company can be difficult.

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But over those eight years, we've done a lot of internal education.

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We've brought in new people that are really excited about Bitcoin.

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And so I think there's a lot more unity and commitment to the cause.

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And I think that starts with Jack at the top.

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And I think we recently had a, we flew all 10,000 people from the company out for a company birthday party, essentially.

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It was our 16th birthday.

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It's a square number.

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everybody was in Oakland and we did like essentially like a very high

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production two-day conference inside the Oakland arena and the talk of the town

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leaving that was Bitcoin about how Bitcoin showed up the biggest at that

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conference and how so many people left with the impression like oh my god I

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I finally understand Bitcoin now.

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Because I think one of the most impactful panels that we had there was Jack interviewed a number of human rights activists from around the world that are using Bitcoin in amazing circumstances.

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Circumstances of extreme difficulty and resilience.

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And I think that really resonated with so much of the company that maybe is further away from the work and helped us understand as Americans or people in first world countries just how much financial privilege we have and that Bitcoin is for everyone.

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And then there were other sessions on Bitcoin as well.

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But just a little sidetrack that like it's been a long process, just like orange pilling the world or your family is a process.

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I think the same process has happened internally.

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So I think that's really good.

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And that's really important.

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About a year ago, we also shifted to a functional model

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within the company that has allowed us to be a lot more

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intentional and deliberate with our Bitcoin products, what

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we're shipping, and what is the overall vision?

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How do these different things come together?

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And like you mentioned, there's been so many announcements

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launches in the last few months in particular.

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And I think, I mean, this week was so exciting for me because the Square Payments thing was

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something of really great importance for our company, but for Bitcoin as a whole, I think.

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Even when I started in 2017, people were asking me, like, when Square?

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When Lightning?

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So like finally be able to do it is a huge, huge milestone.

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And I think a number of the features that you saw previewed today at cash releases, I think, pair into that really well for what the evolution of Bitcoin can continue to look like and what it can mean for a major financial firm to be increasingly leaning into these primitives and the capabilities behind it.

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them.

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Yeah, and since we're releasing this on Monday and we're not going to break any embargo,

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we can talk about it.

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I mean, the pay a Bitcoin invoice, we hit record, there's some lore behind that particular application.

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Yeah, so this feature is something that was the core primitive for how Strike was

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actually started.

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brilliant model because it allows lightning invoices to be paid with dollars, which avoids

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any sort of taxable event for the sender, which has been one of the limiting factors

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that people talk about when why Bitcoin payments won't exist or won't take off, especially

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before some de minimis exception comes out.

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But the deep, deep lore is I pulled out an email from, as I mentioned earlier, Jack and

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I go way back.

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We're great friends.

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And that's the beauty of Bitcoin is he has an app that is essentially, I would call it

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a Bitcoin native version of Cash App.

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And they've been doing tremendously well and successful and it's been awesome to see their

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success because as one part of the network grows, the other benefits as well.

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and that's something we share in conviction

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is like how the open network wins.

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And it's really unique about our industry

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where we can cheer for our competition.

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Oh, I had this experience downstairs

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where I paid an invoice from Square POS terminal,

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and I pulled up Primal app, which is using Strike

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on the back end paid, and boom, Strike to Cash App

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interoperable.

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Yep.

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And so just the more people using Bitcoin,

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the stronger the overall network is,

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and the more successful my company is going to be,

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and the more successful every Bitcoin company is going to be.

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And so, yeah, side quest there.

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But the funny part is, is like the foundational idea for Strike

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was actually emailed to me from Jack on November 1st, 2019,

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because we were talking about doing it for a Cash App

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Internal Hack Week.

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And so it was like, what a, that brought like a swell to my heart

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looking at that, like, oh man, simple days back then.

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and made me super proud to see the growth of the industry, the growth of my friends in the industry,

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and how far things have come from that day since.

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Yeah, and it's been very obvious the last six months, particularly, that Bitcoin is everyday money,

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is a core focus.

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It seems like over the last few years, many in the Bitcoin space,

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if you're not paying attention to what's happening on the ground in terms of payments,

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innovation, whether it's cash humans,

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ARC protocol,

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the maturation of lightning, many people

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become convinced that Bitcoin

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is simply digital gold that you're supposed to

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buy, hold, never sell, never

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spend, try to

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speculative attack

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the credit system to get more Bitcoin.

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But like you

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mentioned earlier, the goal

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at Block is to make sure that Bitcoin is

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everyday money. And what would you

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say to people that say it's not

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wise to go after that medium of exchange use case right now?

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Yeah, so we have a three-part sort of approach for how we've served the Bitcoin community

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and ecosystem to get to that end goal that I'll circle back to at some point.

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But we believe with conviction that in order for Bitcoin to maintain the attributes that

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make it so unique, namely censorship resistance, it requires velocity.

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Storing it in ETFs or on corporate treasuries and just having it sit idle there, it loses

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the very thing that attracted people like you and me to it originally.

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And so we believe that in order for Bitcoin to truly succeed, for it to become the native

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currency of the internet, we want it to be used every day.

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And we think that we are uniquely positioned to help push this.

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And so just like I mentioned earlier that when we launched Cash App, on Cash App a lot of

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people were like, you guys are a little crazy and you're a little early.

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And not many people know, even before that, in 2013, on that bull run, Square actually

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debuted on-chain acceptance through a third party before rolling it back after not a lot of people

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accepted. I remember walking to the coffee shop around the corner from me in San Francisco

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in Nob Hill and it was clunky and the barista didn't know how to use it. And you'd see this

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at all the kind of attempts at introducing payments to the mainstream to date is that there was always

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was a sidecar or the training was difficult or the Bitcoin person isn't in right now.

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You can't pay in Bitcoin.

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And so I think the seamlessness of what we've launched on Square recently is going to be

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a huge part of why the odds of this clicking and growing and progressing to where we hope

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it to get to be is different this time.

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And you asked me earlier, like, is what's changed or like why is now the right time?

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Like today is the right time to do it.

292
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Tomorrow would be the right time to do it.

293
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If not us, then who?

294
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You know, it feels like it's reaching a point where we need to.

295
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It's almost like which way?

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Western man.

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Yeah.

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And we feel strongly that that this is the direction Bitcoin should go and people should

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vote with their feet, vote with their sats.

300
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And to see the response from the community

301
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the last few days on Twitter has been truly unbelievable.

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I just, I've always loved, occasionally they make me crazy,

303
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but seeing like the community engagement

304
00:23:40,916 --> 00:23:44,976
and how inspired people have been to deputize themselves,

305
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to go sign up their local Square merchants,

306
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to tell them to turn on Bitcoin

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because they want to pay them in Bitcoin,

308
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because they want this virtuous cycle to flow.

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It's like there's so many beautiful people in this space

310
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and so many people that are so mission driven

311
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that it's an honor to be a part of it so frequently.

312
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And there's massive benefits to the sellers

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for incorporating it, both if you do cash

314
00:24:07,736 --> 00:24:10,196
and you put a portion of that in the Bitcoin right away,

315
00:24:10,196 --> 00:24:13,696
but on the payment side, from a fee perspective,

316
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it makes a lot of sense to enable Bitcoin payments.

317
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The merchants understand it right away,

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even normie merchants.

319
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And I think what's really unique about what we've launched,

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Jack had a great tweet, but our merchants can now

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accept payments in four different ways.

322
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Bitcoin to Bitcoin, so customers sending Bitcoin,

323
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merchant receiving Bitcoin, holding it as Bitcoin.

324
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You can go BTC to fiat, so that means automatically converting

325
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it into dollars for these normie sellers

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that I was talking about.

327
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They want to save 3%, but they don't want to hold Bitcoin.

328
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They'll do that any day.

329
00:24:48,796 --> 00:24:50,256
You know, it's like, I don't even have to think

330
00:24:50,256 --> 00:24:52,756
about the Bitcoin, yeah, sure, sign me up, turn it on.

331
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If people want to pay me that way, great.

332
00:24:55,056 --> 00:24:56,956
The flip side of what we've also built

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is what we called our conversions product.

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And so that is where daily card sales come through.

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00:25:03,676 --> 00:25:06,056
People are tapping as they buy their coffees.

336
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You said a percentage that you want converted

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and DCA'd into Bitcoin on a daily basis.

338
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And I actually think that's the product

339
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that's going to take off more immediately than payment.

340
00:25:20,316 --> 00:25:23,836
That's kind of the equivalent of what I like,

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the parallel to Cash App that really we saw by sell

342
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and like being up increasing accessibility

343
00:25:30,536 --> 00:25:34,696
as the first step of people's journey into Bitcoin.

344
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I think that's where people can start really small,

345
00:25:37,276 --> 00:25:39,936
get a little bit of exposure, see how it affects their cash

346
00:25:39,936 --> 00:25:42,596
flows, and then observe it over time.

347
00:25:42,596 --> 00:25:45,216
That yes, this thing's volatile, but it

348
00:25:45,216 --> 00:25:49,636
trends towards, trends only in one direction on a long enough time frame.

349
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And so I really love that daily conversions feature.

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And then you can still take fiat to fiat payments as well.

351
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But we built a fully native Bitcoin banking stack for the 4 million merchants across the U.S.

352
00:26:05,456 --> 00:26:12,136
And it's really a first in the world integration that it's not just bolted on.

353
00:26:12,136 --> 00:26:17,036
it's truly deeply integrated into the tools that you already know and love within Square.

354
00:26:17,216 --> 00:26:22,256
So that means your loyalty still works and your gift cards still work.

355
00:26:22,536 --> 00:26:25,636
There's just being part of the ecosystem.

356
00:26:25,916 --> 00:26:30,616
I think Bitcoin is an incredible new part of the Square experience.

357
00:26:31,096 --> 00:26:34,396
And we're seeing great excitement out the gates.

358
00:26:34,996 --> 00:26:41,396
And I think we're still, just like Cashflow, I think we're early on the payment stuff.

359
00:26:42,136 --> 00:26:49,356
We very well may be early, but we have a history of taking principled early bets.

360
00:26:50,096 --> 00:26:54,036
And from this foundation, I think the genie's out of the bottle.

361
00:26:54,276 --> 00:26:59,796
And it'll just grow and grow as more merchants come to appreciate that there's no fees for accepting Bitcoin.

362
00:27:00,656 --> 00:27:01,736
There's no chargebacks.

363
00:27:02,156 --> 00:27:04,816
And you don't have to wait at all to get access to your funds.

364
00:27:04,816 --> 00:27:10,956
and in an increasingly digital world, those are three very important attributes for people trying to make a,

365
00:27:10,956 --> 00:27:14,416
for hardworking Americans trying to make a living running their business.

366
00:27:14,416 --> 00:27:18,696
Yeah, well, and to that last point, hardworking Americans trying to make a living.

367
00:27:18,696 --> 00:27:23,376
I know this is something that we've talked about over the eight years,

368
00:27:23,376 --> 00:27:31,136
we've known each other. I think we both very much view Bitcoin as a tool to get us closer to a future

369
00:27:31,136 --> 00:27:33,136
which more humans are free.

370
00:27:35,136 --> 00:27:46,252
That is your Twitter bio I deeply care about human freedom I think that where we really connect We got into Bitcoin with anti industrial complex

371
00:27:46,712 --> 00:27:50,012
sort of ethos, and we're both children of the great financial crisis.

372
00:27:51,012 --> 00:27:54,572
I'll just speak for myself when I saw that and everything that happened

373
00:27:54,572 --> 00:27:58,232
in the early 2010s as it relates to WikiLeaks, Snowden,

374
00:27:58,732 --> 00:28:00,712
it became clear to me there needs to be an alternative.

375
00:28:00,712 --> 00:28:05,032
It feels like Bitcoin is that, and that's why I've dedicated my life to it.

376
00:28:05,032 --> 00:28:13,032
But as time's progressed and you look at the political discourse in the country right now and how polarized everything is,

377
00:28:13,172 --> 00:28:19,432
and in my view, everybody's wiping up branches when they're missing the core of the problem, which is that the money's broken.

378
00:28:19,632 --> 00:28:25,572
And I've written about this many times the last few weeks as you guys have continued to roll out these products.

379
00:28:25,572 --> 00:28:41,552
This is massive to me because I think Bitcoin is that sly roundabout way to fix a lot of the social issues which are seeped in economic stress in the United States without having to ask politicians to fix it for us.

380
00:28:41,552 --> 00:28:57,672
And so by enabling 4 million square merchants to get onboarded to Bitcoin, whether that's receiving payments, letting their users or their customers paying Bitcoin or simply sweeping some of their fiat revenues into Bitcoin to sit on their treasury.

381
00:28:57,852 --> 00:29:07,892
To me, that is more impactful than trying to fix the economic issues that exist in America today by going to D.C. and asking them to fix it for us.

382
00:29:08,232 --> 00:29:11,132
I think that's extremely well said.

383
00:29:11,552 --> 00:29:18,952
And I resonate a lot with your journey, as we've talked about over the many years.

384
00:29:19,152 --> 00:29:21,052
But, I mean, I'm old school.

385
00:29:21,552 --> 00:29:23,252
Like, I came to Bitcoin.

386
00:29:23,392 --> 00:29:37,552
I found Bitcoin in the zero-hedge comment section in 2011, which, I mean, if there was ever a spot that Marty Jones would feel right at home at, it's those zero-hedge comment sections.

387
00:29:37,552 --> 00:29:45,792
But I say I'm old school because for me it was always about constraining the power of

388
00:29:45,792 --> 00:29:49,132
the state to act in an unethical manner.

389
00:29:49,132 --> 00:29:56,672
I was very red-pillowed about the foreign adventurism of the US military and the pain

390
00:29:56,672 --> 00:29:58,512
we were causing in the Middle East.

391
00:29:58,512 --> 00:30:06,112
Back then there wasn't, it's pretty mainstream to be like, oh yeah, those wars were a disaster

392
00:30:06,112 --> 00:30:07,112
these days.

393
00:30:07,112 --> 00:30:16,452
in 2011 or 15, 10, back in 2011 or those days, it was not like you're still kind of an outsider

394
00:30:16,452 --> 00:30:22,392
if you're doing that. It's been positive to see the way things have changed, but there was a lot

395
00:30:22,392 --> 00:30:29,732
tighter grip on cultural consensus back then, I think. And I think that that same thing is true of

396
00:30:29,732 --> 00:30:37,552
money where people are asking what is money and like it's kind of culturally understood like oh

397
00:30:37,552 --> 00:30:41,392
yeah they just print as much of it as up and there's no constraint on it yada yada yada but

398
00:30:41,392 --> 00:30:48,652
you ask people but back then have you ever thought about what money is and be like shut up don't care

399
00:30:48,652 --> 00:30:54,512
you know like things are stable but I don't it's not really of concern to me so I think that is a

400
00:30:54,512 --> 00:31:04,692
positive that people do feel more conscious about these macro things.

401
00:31:04,692 --> 00:31:11,372
I think there's a lot further to go in a number of these areas.

402
00:31:11,372 --> 00:31:17,032
But as you mentioned, to me, Bitcoin has always been,

403
00:31:17,032 --> 00:31:23,132
I'm blanking on it.

404
00:31:23,132 --> 00:31:28,712
Bitcoin is civil disobedience, is a tweet out I put out a number of years ago.

405
00:31:28,712 --> 00:31:31,352
And I believe that it is opting out.

406
00:31:31,352 --> 00:31:37,532
It is putting your weight behind building a better, fairer system.

407
00:31:37,532 --> 00:31:40,312
And I think that's been core to my journey.

408
00:31:40,312 --> 00:31:46,192
And so just to tie it back to what you said about at Block,

409
00:31:46,192 --> 00:31:48,692
We want to make Bitcoin everyday money.

410
00:31:48,692 --> 00:31:50,672
And to get there, we believe we have

411
00:31:50,672 --> 00:31:52,212
to make it more accessible.

412
00:31:52,212 --> 00:31:53,572
We need to make it more secure.

413
00:31:53,572 --> 00:31:55,512
And then we need to make it more usable.

414
00:31:55,512 --> 00:32:00,412
And going back to your timeline question,

415
00:32:00,412 --> 00:32:01,952
Cash App was all about making it accessible,

416
00:32:01,952 --> 00:32:04,212
making it instantly available for millions of people

417
00:32:04,212 --> 00:32:04,972
across the US.

418
00:32:04,972 --> 00:32:07,492
We're doing the same thing now with Square, where people

419
00:32:07,492 --> 00:32:10,352
can get their first touches on it, experience it,

420
00:32:10,352 --> 00:32:13,632
and increase usability and accessibility.

421
00:32:13,632 --> 00:32:19,872
So the second sort of like bucket of projects that we look at is making it more secure.

422
00:32:19,872 --> 00:32:25,612
Like if Bitcoin is going to be around for generations and the future of the entire global financial system,

423
00:32:25,612 --> 00:32:28,812
we need it to be secure. We need it to be decentralized.

424
00:32:28,812 --> 00:32:34,152
And so that inspired our investments in both BitKey and Proto.

425
00:32:35,952 --> 00:32:42,632
With BitKey, we're making it more secure to hold your own keys, to have it be recoverable and introduce self-custody

426
00:32:42,632 --> 00:32:44,692
to a whole new audience.

427
00:32:44,692 --> 00:32:48,612
This is self-custody that my grandma can use.

428
00:32:48,612 --> 00:32:50,452
And with Proto, we felt it was really important

429
00:32:50,452 --> 00:32:54,092
to offer an American company alternative

430
00:32:54,092 --> 00:32:59,672
to kind of like the duopoly that comes from China

431
00:32:59,672 --> 00:33:04,432
and has a mixed bag of reviews from the many people

432
00:33:04,432 --> 00:33:06,252
like Deep in the Mining, you know all about it.

433
00:33:06,252 --> 00:33:08,732
So many Deep in the Mining industry.

434
00:33:08,732 --> 00:33:11,112
I can speak for a lot of us where it's like, thank God,

435
00:33:11,112 --> 00:33:13,552
there's a competitor to Bitmain and MicroBT.

436
00:33:14,192 --> 00:33:22,372
Just because Bitmain specifically is not as customer forward as somebody like Proto.

437
00:33:22,492 --> 00:33:24,672
We really hope to change that.

438
00:33:25,952 --> 00:33:29,312
And then in making Bitcoin more usable,

439
00:33:29,312 --> 00:33:37,932
I think it's about showing these opportunities of how and why you should be using Bitcoin every day

440
00:33:37,932 --> 00:33:41,672
and ultimately progress it on its path to everyday money.

441
00:33:42,592 --> 00:33:44,452
And so we talked about some of the merchant benefits,

442
00:33:45,092 --> 00:33:47,672
the no fees, no chargebacks, instant availability.

443
00:33:48,572 --> 00:33:51,392
But then what is that, how do we make it even simpler

444
00:33:51,392 --> 00:33:53,672
from the cash-up side of things?

445
00:33:53,992 --> 00:33:58,672
And so we talked a little bit about a product that,

446
00:33:58,912 --> 00:34:01,272
internally we called it Dollars on Lightning for a long time,

447
00:34:01,352 --> 00:34:02,352
basically the strike model.

448
00:34:04,192 --> 00:34:07,772
Preserve your stack while still letting the merchant receive Bitcoin

449
00:34:07,772 --> 00:34:14,012
and take advantage of Bitcoin, the network, and then perhaps the asset as well, or perhaps fiat.

450
00:34:15,452 --> 00:34:25,132
But I think the next sort of step from this product that I think is really, really exciting is,

451
00:34:25,772 --> 00:34:30,812
so everybody in Strike is like Bitcoin native. Everybody within Cash App using Lightning

452
00:34:30,812 --> 00:34:33,232
with the Bitcoin as the foundation

453
00:34:33,232 --> 00:34:34,492
is

454
00:34:34,492 --> 00:34:37,112
Bitcoin native or like they understand

455
00:34:37,112 --> 00:34:39,092
Bitcoin to some extent. But in

456
00:34:39,092 --> 00:34:41,092
any given month, it's like single digit

457
00:34:41,092 --> 00:34:43,072
monthly actives

458
00:34:43,072 --> 00:34:45,212
of Bitcoin customers. But we

459
00:34:45,212 --> 00:34:46,632
have this top of funnel of

460
00:34:46,632 --> 00:34:49,172
58 million monthly actives.

461
00:34:49,512 --> 00:34:50,952
And so that's 50

462
00:34:50,952 --> 00:34:52,492
plus million people

463
00:34:52,492 --> 00:34:55,072
active on the app each month

464
00:34:55,072 --> 00:34:57,012
that we can introduce the

465
00:34:57,012 --> 00:34:59,132
Lightning Network to without even

466
00:34:59,132 --> 00:34:59,852
knowing what

467
00:34:59,852 --> 00:35:05,272
Bitcoin is or what Lightning is. By letting them use that US dollar balance that they all have,

468
00:35:06,272 --> 00:35:13,812
I think it's a step towards onboarding the next tens of millions of people onto Bitcoin without

469
00:35:13,812 --> 00:35:21,132
even requiring them to know what it is. And so I think that's a big part in sort of connecting

470
00:35:21,132 --> 00:35:25,152
the ecosystem. And I think it's all going to be driven by economic incentives. I think when

471
00:35:25,152 --> 00:35:28,412
merchants are saving money on processing fees,

472
00:35:28,412 --> 00:35:30,652
they can pass that back to customers

473
00:35:30,652 --> 00:35:35,652
who are increasingly conscious of the fading value

474
00:35:36,232 --> 00:35:38,412
of their dollar, that their salary's not keeping up

475
00:35:38,412 --> 00:35:40,332
with inflation, that their taxes keep rising.

476
00:35:40,332 --> 00:35:44,652
That it's hard to be an American.

477
00:35:44,652 --> 00:35:47,592
It's hard to be, I have a lot of empathy

478
00:35:47,592 --> 00:35:51,992
for people in America that are struggling.

479
00:35:51,992 --> 00:35:55,372
I think far too often we don't call those people out

480
00:35:55,372 --> 00:35:56,592
or they're ignored.

481
00:35:56,592 --> 00:35:59,972
But I also want to recognize that I'm super passionate

482
00:35:59,972 --> 00:36:04,412
about people in the developing world who have it much, much

483
00:36:04,412 --> 00:36:06,552
harder as well, which is why I paused.

484
00:36:06,552 --> 00:36:10,592
But at least on the catch up side of things,

485
00:36:10,592 --> 00:36:11,352
things are harder.

486
00:36:11,352 --> 00:36:14,652
And so I think meaningful, like getting 1% back

487
00:36:14,652 --> 00:36:17,752
in Bitcoin from the merchant because you scan this QR code

488
00:36:17,752 --> 00:36:20,072
instead of swiping your card, I think that's meaningful.

489
00:36:20,072 --> 00:36:22,272
And that's something that we want to lean a lot into.

490
00:36:24,772 --> 00:36:27,732
The other feature that we launched this week at Cash Releases

491
00:36:27,732 --> 00:36:30,252
is what we're calling Bitcoin Maps.

492
00:36:30,252 --> 00:36:35,532
And so a lot of what we love to do things

493
00:36:35,532 --> 00:36:37,992
that are good for our company, but good for the community

494
00:36:37,992 --> 00:36:38,612
as well.

495
00:36:38,612 --> 00:36:43,832
And we love open source is core to the block, Inc. DNA.

496
00:36:43,832 --> 00:36:46,652
Going back to our little timeline before, in 2019,

497
00:36:46,652 --> 00:36:51,872
We started a wing of the company called Spiral that's led by Steve Lee.

498
00:36:51,872 --> 00:36:55,652
We have 10 full-time people where all they do is work on Bitcoin.

499
00:36:55,652 --> 00:36:58,632
And Jack can't tell Steve or that team what to work on.

500
00:36:58,632 --> 00:37:03,052
They're just completely independent, just funded by Block Inc.

501
00:37:03,052 --> 00:37:06,932
We've probably given 100 grants to people on every continent around the world.

502
00:37:06,932 --> 00:37:10,632
And so they're doing really important work growing the open source ecosystem.

503
00:37:10,632 --> 00:37:12,732
And that's just open source Bitcoin.

504
00:37:12,732 --> 00:37:17,432
Doc has a head of open source within the company.

505
00:37:17,432 --> 00:37:21,132
Our AI initiative, Goose, is all about open source as well.

506
00:37:21,132 --> 00:37:23,432
Open source is really core to what we're doing.

507
00:37:23,432 --> 00:37:24,732
We do a lot at the company.

508
00:37:24,732 --> 00:37:27,112
Obviously, I'm focusing only on Bitcoin.

509
00:37:27,112 --> 00:37:33,192
But there's a lot of cool stuff going on across the company that I encourage everybody to look

510
00:37:33,192 --> 00:37:34,192
into.

511
00:37:34,192 --> 00:37:35,192
Back to the map.

512
00:37:35,192 --> 00:37:41,392
We used an open source framework, btcmap.org.

513
00:37:41,392 --> 00:37:46,272
This was just like a volunteer based thing where people are tagging stores that accept

514
00:37:46,272 --> 00:37:49,072
Bitcoin and it works across the entire globe.

515
00:37:49,072 --> 00:37:53,152
And it's actually really fun to zoom out, zoom in and kind of like see where's all the

516
00:37:53,152 --> 00:37:55,012
action.

517
00:37:55,012 --> 00:38:02,512
But with the Square integration, we made it so every merchant that turns on payments is

518
00:38:02,512 --> 00:38:04,312
given a pop up, a quick yes or no.

519
00:38:04,312 --> 00:38:10,932
Do you want to be added to the Bitcoin map to get free advertising to this rabid bunch

520
00:38:10,932 --> 00:38:16,272
of people that are part of this movement that want to kick off the flywheel of Bitcoin payment

521
00:38:16,272 --> 00:38:17,272
adoption.

522
00:38:17,272 --> 00:38:22,792
And so it's really cool to have both sides of the network where these merchants are popping

523
00:38:22,792 --> 00:38:28,812
up on the map and then our engaged consumers on this side can use the map as a hub to go

524
00:38:28,812 --> 00:38:35,932
find these consumer incentives to go chase these deals and support this protocol.

525
00:38:35,932 --> 00:38:39,712
Support this protocol like Johnny Appleseed with Bitcoin at these new places, but also

526
00:38:39,712 --> 00:38:48,352
we can point the normies in here too if we're getting meaningful rewards back in some of these

527
00:38:48,352 --> 00:38:55,712
places from the savings of processing. And so we're calling those quests. We're going to be able to

528
00:38:55,712 --> 00:39:00,192
send people on quests to go find merchants that are doing a promotion or want to accept Bitcoin

529
00:39:00,192 --> 00:39:05,232
and get things back within Cash App. And the second part of what we're launching in the next

530
00:39:05,232 --> 00:39:07,552
version of the map is what we're calling Quest.

531
00:39:07,552 --> 00:39:09,312
And this is what I mentioned earlier.

532
00:39:09,312 --> 00:39:14,052
And I put out a video tweet for the first time in my life.

533
00:39:14,052 --> 00:39:16,552
I'll be like, hey, guys.

534
00:39:16,552 --> 00:39:18,952
But it was actually super fun and had

535
00:39:18,952 --> 00:39:22,452
amazing reaction of engaged Bitcoiners around the country,

536
00:39:22,452 --> 00:39:24,512
going to their local coffee shop that uses Square,

537
00:39:24,512 --> 00:39:28,592
convincing them to turn on Bitcoin payments,

538
00:39:28,592 --> 00:39:30,012
and then doing a payment.

539
00:39:30,012 --> 00:39:32,072
And I said, hey, I'll pay out a bounty to anybody

540
00:39:32,072 --> 00:39:32,712
that will do this.

541
00:39:32,712 --> 00:39:34,492
We'll automate this process.

542
00:39:34,492 --> 00:39:35,912
Yesterday was just a scrappy version,

543
00:39:35,912 --> 00:39:37,832
but I was blown away with the response

544
00:39:37,832 --> 00:39:40,052
and definitely something we're gonna productionize

545
00:39:40,052 --> 00:39:43,172
and automate to happen automatically.

546
00:39:43,172 --> 00:39:46,612
But I just, I'm pretty caught up in the moment

547
00:39:46,612 --> 00:39:48,932
just wanted to keep all the excitement

548
00:39:48,932 --> 00:39:50,392
and energy going yesterday.

549
00:39:50,392 --> 00:39:51,992
So I think that was a big success.

550
00:39:51,992 --> 00:39:53,092
I saw our friend Paul Keating

551
00:39:53,092 --> 00:39:55,612
was really putting up numbers yesterday.

552
00:39:55,612 --> 00:39:58,432
I think he put up six merchants on the island of Kauai.

553
00:39:58,432 --> 00:40:01,172
You know, can't be that many merchants.

554
00:40:01,172 --> 00:40:02,392
We'll get them all pretty soon.

555
00:40:02,392 --> 00:40:07,512
Well, to any merchants who are new to this podcast and listening in because Miles is on,

556
00:40:07,672 --> 00:40:09,792
just go look at Steak and Shake.

557
00:40:09,872 --> 00:40:10,992
They came out with some financials.

558
00:40:10,992 --> 00:40:14,952
They saw a 15% uplift in revenue when they announced Bitcoin.

559
00:40:14,952 --> 00:40:16,232
Store over store sales or whatever.

560
00:40:16,432 --> 00:40:17,752
I forget what that metric is called.

561
00:40:18,012 --> 00:40:19,892
It was material gross in there.

562
00:40:20,492 --> 00:40:25,872
And the revenue, like the Bitcoiners are sort of a rabid consumer base that is looking to

563
00:40:25,872 --> 00:40:27,552
Johnny Appleseed Bitcoin adoption.

564
00:40:27,972 --> 00:40:29,492
So they will treat you well.

565
00:40:29,492 --> 00:40:38,752
And I think this gets to another thing, like moving forward, not only for Block, but for Bitcoin.

566
00:40:39,092 --> 00:40:48,752
Like, what do you think is most critical as we move further into sort of this inflection point of human history, fourth earning, whatever you want to call it?

567
00:40:49,092 --> 00:40:52,612
So I think we have a lot of pieces in place for Bitcoin.

568
00:40:52,612 --> 00:41:00,572
And you know what, through all the cycles, I'm constantly shocked by the surprises that

569
00:41:00,572 --> 00:41:08,432
come through and like the brief heart attacks or not so brief heart attacks as things inevitably

570
00:41:08,432 --> 00:41:09,432
go wrong.

571
00:41:09,432 --> 00:41:12,712
But I'm always shocked by the resilience and the people.

572
00:41:12,712 --> 00:41:15,452
And I think we have a lot of the right things in place.

573
00:41:15,452 --> 00:41:22,332
And ultimately, we're doing everything we can as a company to make sure Bitcoin is resilient,

574
00:41:22,332 --> 00:41:38,348
decentralized secure accessible and used by people all around But it takes more than us and it takes the community But I think what we seen in the past is even when we early we see others follow

575
00:41:39,148 --> 00:41:44,228
And so I hope that, as I mentioned, open network, like the more people, the more point of sales

576
00:41:44,228 --> 00:41:51,588
companies accepting Bitcoin, the better. Please go copy the products and turn on, get even more

577
00:41:51,588 --> 00:41:58,488
merchants converting their daily sales each and every day. To me, these blue collar and

578
00:41:58,488 --> 00:42:05,208
high-end places as well using Square, to me, these are the real Bitcoin treasury companies,

579
00:42:05,528 --> 00:42:09,888
the ones using proof of work every day to put the Bitcoin on their balance sheet.

580
00:42:10,588 --> 00:42:16,708
And that's sort of like a speculative attack that aligns much more with my ethos and what

581
00:42:16,708 --> 00:42:17,368
gets me excited.

582
00:42:17,368 --> 00:42:24,728
I saw Parker in Sahil down in Austin spending Bitcoin at what used to be my favorite local

583
00:42:24,728 --> 00:42:26,128
grocer, which is Local Pastures.

584
00:42:26,128 --> 00:42:27,128
Well, the best.

585
00:42:27,128 --> 00:42:29,648
You have Sam Moffitt, who's been on the show before.

586
00:42:29,648 --> 00:42:31,648
He runs Shirtail Creek Farms.

587
00:42:31,648 --> 00:42:34,368
They have the best eggs I've ever had in my life.

588
00:42:34,368 --> 00:42:35,368
Incredible ground beef.

589
00:42:35,368 --> 00:42:38,368
They were an early beta tester that we got on board.

590
00:42:38,368 --> 00:42:43,488
And Sam came on the show, and I think after he was on the show, Parker and I were like,

591
00:42:43,488 --> 00:42:44,648
hey, this guy wants to get in.

592
00:42:44,648 --> 00:42:47,028
But at the time, this was a year, year and a half ago,

593
00:42:47,148 --> 00:42:49,748
he was curious but didn't have the tools to do it.

594
00:42:49,868 --> 00:42:52,448
And it seems like you guys have made that really easy.

595
00:42:52,508 --> 00:42:53,888
And I remember what I wanted to ask earlier

596
00:42:53,888 --> 00:42:57,288
when we were on this thread of seller adoption.

597
00:42:58,268 --> 00:43:00,288
I remember a couple weeks ago when I sent a tweet out

598
00:43:00,288 --> 00:43:04,028
when you guys announced something related to the Square POS.

599
00:43:04,228 --> 00:43:04,928
Somebody responded.

600
00:43:05,048 --> 00:43:07,208
They've been in a beta test for two years.

601
00:43:07,568 --> 00:43:09,528
And their comment was,

602
00:43:09,668 --> 00:43:12,828
I'm extremely excited for all other Square sellers

603
00:43:12,828 --> 00:43:13,808
to get access to this

604
00:43:13,808 --> 00:43:16,768
because it's been incredibly beneficial for me and my business.

605
00:43:17,148 --> 00:43:21,368
Is there any sort of data or KPIs from that beta test that you can point to?

606
00:43:21,628 --> 00:43:26,328
So I think actually the most interesting way to answer this

607
00:43:26,328 --> 00:43:30,188
is to go through the timeline of how this all came to be.

608
00:43:30,868 --> 00:43:35,968
As I mentioned, there's a lot more internal alignment within the last year.

609
00:43:36,508 --> 00:43:41,728
I have a lot more mandate to make things happen across Cash, Square, and Bickey.

610
00:43:41,728 --> 00:43:43,688
And there's just been a lot of things shifting

611
00:43:43,688 --> 00:43:45,748
that have put us in a good position

612
00:43:45,748 --> 00:43:49,528
to execute really quickly and ship things.

613
00:43:49,528 --> 00:43:54,568
But the test that we're talking about,

614
00:43:54,568 --> 00:43:58,288
we did a Hack Week project over two years ago, maybe three

615
00:43:58,288 --> 00:43:59,728
years ago.

616
00:43:59,728 --> 00:44:00,948
We had nobody on the Square side.

617
00:44:00,948 --> 00:44:02,488
Square was doing its own thing.

618
00:44:02,488 --> 00:44:04,428
We were all on the Cash App side.

619
00:44:04,428 --> 00:44:07,328
But on nights and weekends, we hacked together a Hack Week

620
00:44:07,328 --> 00:44:11,908
to that let a very small percentage of merchants

621
00:44:11,908 --> 00:44:15,708
convert some daily sales into Bitcoin within Cash App.

622
00:44:15,708 --> 00:44:19,128
And so nothing was really built natively within Square.

623
00:44:19,128 --> 00:44:20,688
We did that for one hack week.

624
00:44:20,688 --> 00:44:22,168
The next year we did another hack week.

625
00:44:22,168 --> 00:44:24,768
We kind of like took it a step further.

626
00:44:25,768 --> 00:44:29,588
But it really wasn't until January of this year

627
00:44:29,588 --> 00:44:31,768
that we're like, hey guys, can we launch,

628
00:44:31,768 --> 00:44:33,248
I mean, we wanted to launch it for real.

629
00:44:33,248 --> 00:44:35,828
But in January is the first time like, all right,

630
00:44:35,828 --> 00:44:38,528
You got people, you got a plan, go do this.

631
00:44:39,028 --> 00:44:42,648
And so it started with, I think it was January,

632
00:44:42,848 --> 00:44:46,688
I emailed Michael Markle from BTC Inc.

633
00:44:46,688 --> 00:44:49,928
He runs all the payments for the Bitcoin conference.

634
00:44:50,048 --> 00:44:55,248
And I was like, hey dude, what if we tried to do the payments at the Bitcoin conference?

635
00:44:55,748 --> 00:44:58,348
And we'd do it as a big surprise, people would see it,

636
00:44:58,608 --> 00:45:01,728
and we would announce it at the conference that this is coming.

637
00:45:02,408 --> 00:45:04,448
At that time, and so we did that.

638
00:45:04,448 --> 00:45:15,288
But the kind of lore that we didn't really talk about is the product that we just launched was not built at all in April.

639
00:45:16,428 --> 00:45:17,068
It wasn't.

640
00:45:17,068 --> 00:45:30,728
No, we had just kind of kicked off that work and we're figuring out, like, how can we even get this done in 2025 at all, period, even though we're going to announce it finished by the end of the year.

641
00:45:30,728 --> 00:45:37,708
But what we launched and actually used at the Bitcoin conference, we launched it non-custodially.

642
00:45:38,288 --> 00:45:42,208
So each square terminal had its own non-custodial wallet in there.

643
00:45:42,548 --> 00:45:47,648
We had the LSP that's opening just-in-time channels to them and managing liquidity across this.

644
00:45:47,768 --> 00:45:56,168
And it was like doing Bitcoin payments acceptance on expert mode before we'd even done like...

645
00:45:56,168 --> 00:45:57,748
The hand-holding custodial model.

646
00:45:57,768 --> 00:45:58,828
Yeah, novice mode.

647
00:45:58,828 --> 00:46:07,288
and so that felt like um so crazy that we decided to do it but we had been we'd had a couple of

648
00:46:07,288 --> 00:46:13,028
engineers building this on the side just for fun we're like um well not for fun I mean I think they

649
00:46:13,028 --> 00:46:18,628
hoped to get it out at some point but we had to like tighten this thing up in about like a month

650
00:46:18,628 --> 00:46:25,008
or two going into it I the night before I was kind of like I don't know I'm like 80% sure this

651
00:46:25,008 --> 00:46:31,108
is going to work. This is going to go super well. The team worked so hard and we were so diligent,

652
00:46:31,848 --> 00:46:38,828
like 15 of us behind the merch booth, which we were powering, just grinding as a team really

653
00:46:38,828 --> 00:46:43,188
closely together to make sure that this was a success and then announce this vision of what

654
00:46:43,188 --> 00:46:48,668
we're going to build. And then to have the team follow through in such a short timeline was

655
00:46:48,668 --> 00:46:53,668
the best engineering effort that I've seen in my career. And so this week has been kind of a

656
00:46:53,668 --> 00:46:58,888
culmination of that. I was pretty like emotional on Monday, sending a video to

657
00:46:58,888 --> 00:47:02,668
the entire team because it's something we've been building towards for many

658
00:47:02,668 --> 00:47:07,288
years and it all came together with the Bitcoin payments launch on Monday. I

659
00:47:07,288 --> 00:47:10,228
think these, it's now Wednesday and we're launching a few of these features on

660
00:47:10,228 --> 00:47:13,288
the Cash App side to really connect the ecosystem and make it even more

661
00:47:13,288 --> 00:47:18,688
powerful. I think this overall narrative and ability to actually will this thing

662
00:47:18,688 --> 00:47:23,128
into existence is a lot more real. After we announced it at the

663
00:47:23,128 --> 00:47:29,248
Bitcoin conference. I remember thinking like, ah, this is so good. Jack's gonna be super happy to me.

664
00:47:29,248 --> 00:47:35,668
And one of the press releases said like, coming out in 2026, like with all these kind of caveats.

665
00:47:36,308 --> 00:47:43,088
And Jack was, he was like, no, it's like this needs to come out this year. And we need to figure out

666
00:47:43,088 --> 00:47:49,888
how to do it. And I basically thought it was impossible. But November 10th was the date.

667
00:47:49,888 --> 00:47:52,008
and we're really proud to hit that.

668
00:47:52,168 --> 00:47:53,688
That was with like 100% of our focus

669
00:47:53,688 --> 00:47:56,808
pointed on Square for the last nine months.

670
00:47:58,388 --> 00:47:58,968
And then there's like,

671
00:47:59,068 --> 00:47:59,448
and by the way,

672
00:47:59,508 --> 00:48:01,168
we're doing this cash releases event too.

673
00:48:01,408 --> 00:48:02,948
And so we've had to figure out

674
00:48:02,948 --> 00:48:05,448
how to get these three other compelling products

675
00:48:05,448 --> 00:48:08,168
to market this same week as well.

676
00:48:08,288 --> 00:48:09,348
So I'm really looking forward

677
00:48:09,348 --> 00:48:11,748
to the team being able to breathe a little bit,

678
00:48:11,868 --> 00:48:13,888
but deadlines create urgency

679
00:48:13,888 --> 00:48:15,128
and deadlines,

680
00:48:15,668 --> 00:48:17,248
I think that's been a big change

681
00:48:17,248 --> 00:48:18,868
that's been really positive for this year.

682
00:48:18,868 --> 00:48:21,168
We're doing these twice-annual Square releases,

683
00:48:21,408 --> 00:48:22,588
twice-annual Cash releases,

684
00:48:23,148 --> 00:48:26,888
and I think it drives a lot of urgency

685
00:48:26,888 --> 00:48:29,728
that's led to a lot of really amazing shipping recently.

686
00:48:30,448 --> 00:48:31,268
I did not know that lore.

687
00:48:31,488 --> 00:48:33,488
We set a Guinness Book of World Record.

688
00:48:33,768 --> 00:48:34,468
Yeah, we did.

689
00:48:34,868 --> 00:48:37,408
As the official witness of the record,

690
00:48:37,668 --> 00:48:39,108
I can say we set the record.

691
00:48:39,368 --> 00:48:39,568
Yep.

692
00:48:40,068 --> 00:48:41,348
It's getting a little hairy there at the end,

693
00:48:41,408 --> 00:48:44,768
but we got it over the mark at the end,

694
00:48:44,848 --> 00:48:45,948
thanks to Rockstar Dev.

695
00:48:45,948 --> 00:48:50,248
Yeah, it's like fast shipping.

696
00:48:50,248 --> 00:48:52,128
I mean, I texted you, what was it, a month ago?

697
00:48:52,128 --> 00:48:54,128
You guys announced it November 10th.

698
00:48:54,128 --> 00:48:55,128
It'd be rolled out.

699
00:48:55,128 --> 00:48:59,128
I was like, because during your presentation, you did say 2026 in the PR.

700
00:48:59,128 --> 00:49:00,128
Yeah.

701
00:49:00,128 --> 00:49:02,468
It's like, oh, you get it two months early.

702
00:49:02,468 --> 00:49:07,548
And this is another thing, maybe not directly related to the Bitcoin products, maybe it

703
00:49:07,548 --> 00:49:09,708
is, but we've been talking about this.

704
00:49:09,708 --> 00:49:13,888
I mean, I think we've both gotten into vibe coding, AI.

705
00:49:13,888 --> 00:49:17,788
And obviously with what Owen just announced downstairs,

706
00:49:17,908 --> 00:49:22,448
looks like Cash App has an AI agent in the app, Moneybot.

707
00:49:22,628 --> 00:49:22,868
Yeah.

708
00:49:23,228 --> 00:49:25,188
And you were mentioning Goose earlier,

709
00:49:25,328 --> 00:49:28,008
open source sort of a Gentic framework or MCP framework.

710
00:49:28,988 --> 00:49:31,788
And how has that helped you guys build,

711
00:49:32,328 --> 00:49:33,848
especially like in a large organization?

712
00:49:34,468 --> 00:49:38,008
Jack loves the phrase, give time back.

713
00:49:38,008 --> 00:49:41,348
Like that's ultimately like what we can do for our customers,

714
00:49:41,348 --> 00:49:46,808
what we can do for our merchants is automate a lot of the mindless bullshit that comes with a

715
00:49:46,808 --> 00:49:52,028
day-to-day job or running a business or running your financial life. And the more we can create

716
00:49:52,028 --> 00:49:56,008
wonderful experiences that give time back to customers, the more time they have for real

717
00:49:56,008 --> 00:50:01,928
creative endeavors or meaningful endeavors. And so that's kind of a core vision for what we want

718
00:50:01,928 --> 00:50:07,088
to serve to our customers, but also how we operate internally. And so the number one company priority

719
00:50:07,088 --> 00:50:10,528
for the last 12 months has been to automate block.

720
00:50:10,528 --> 00:50:14,208
And we're increasingly moving our entire operating system

721
00:50:14,208 --> 00:50:18,028
and the tools we use into Goose

722
00:50:18,028 --> 00:50:23,468
and a few other sort of versions of that for internal tools.

723
00:50:23,768 --> 00:50:29,448
But I think what's been really interesting to see

724
00:50:29,448 --> 00:50:31,528
over the last year, especially,

725
00:50:32,168 --> 00:50:36,728
is how it feels like a golden age for very high agency people.

726
00:50:37,088 --> 00:50:41,008
to bust through walls and accomplish things

727
00:50:41,008 --> 00:50:42,088
that they previously couldn't do,

728
00:50:42,088 --> 00:50:44,728
or they had to wait for permission or alignment

729
00:50:44,728 --> 00:50:48,428
from this team and that team, like big company stuff.

730
00:50:48,428 --> 00:50:53,248
It really gives people the autonomy

731
00:50:53,248 --> 00:50:54,888
to do things on their own.

732
00:50:54,888 --> 00:50:57,208
And again, show, not tell.

733
00:50:57,208 --> 00:51:01,088
I think, especially from the product perspective,

734
00:51:01,088 --> 00:51:04,148
I think the new PRD, the product requirements doc,

735
00:51:04,148 --> 00:51:07,468
It's like, this is not like a slide deck anymore, bro.

736
00:51:07,468 --> 00:51:10,968
This is like, it's like, show me a working prototype.

737
00:51:10,968 --> 00:51:15,608
Put your vision into pixels so that the rest of the team

738
00:51:15,608 --> 00:51:16,848
can experience it.

739
00:51:16,848 --> 00:51:20,708
I think what's worked really well for our team this year

740
00:51:20,708 --> 00:51:26,748
is rather than getting alignment across the four big areas

741
00:51:26,748 --> 00:51:29,388
of the company or waiting for some sort of review

742
00:51:29,388 --> 00:51:33,008
to check this off and get the designs pixel perfect

743
00:51:33,008 --> 00:51:38,848
or the comprehensive narrative on how this is going to fit into the other things we're

744
00:51:38,848 --> 00:51:42,328
doing, it's like, no, go spike it.

745
00:51:42,328 --> 00:51:43,868
Let's make this work in production.

746
00:51:43,868 --> 00:51:48,528
Let's turn it on for what we call inner core, like the 10 most senior people at the company.

747
00:51:48,528 --> 00:51:54,068
If they like it, it's like, yeah, then we'll have a mandate to see it all the way to production

748
00:51:54,068 --> 00:52:01,248
and to the broader audiences versus, I've just found that's been a great way to interface

749
00:52:01,248 --> 00:52:02,248
with engineers.

750
00:52:02,248 --> 00:52:08,988
love spiking things. I personally love feeling it in production versus seeing it in designs

751
00:52:08,988 --> 00:52:15,248
or in hypotheticals. I think to see your actual Bitcoin flowing in and out or to see your

752
00:52:15,248 --> 00:52:21,648
hitting the traditional financial system in some other way based on all the sort of primitives

753
00:52:21,648 --> 00:52:25,708
that we have within the company, to me that's like super fun and exciting. And I think we're

754
00:52:25,708 --> 00:52:31,928
We're also seeing the blurring of different roles as a result.

755
00:52:31,928 --> 00:52:39,388
Designers can now code and product people can now spin up Figma super easily and imagine

756
00:52:39,388 --> 00:52:40,388
things.

757
00:52:40,388 --> 00:52:44,968
I've found that our team in particular has been operating super, super well by being

758
00:52:44,968 --> 00:52:51,768
super fungible, caring less about job title and which department are you in.

759
00:52:51,768 --> 00:52:53,588
It's like, dude, we're all Bitcoins.

760
00:52:53,588 --> 00:52:54,588
We're all on this mission.

761
00:52:54,588 --> 00:52:59,588
these deadlines and it's like I'm pulling in my data scientist to do some product work that's

762
00:53:00,108 --> 00:53:05,528
unaccounted for at the moment. I'm leaning in on my finance and strategy guy to like

763
00:53:05,528 --> 00:53:09,788
do the groundwork to understand this new product that we want to do. So it's taken a village to

764
00:53:09,788 --> 00:53:15,848
do all this stuff at once but I think my team's never been so tired but I think they've never

765
00:53:15,848 --> 00:53:20,428
been so fulfilled as well and that's what it's all about. That's proof of work.

766
00:53:20,428 --> 00:53:27,548
Yeah, I saw, I noticed you laughed a bit when Owen was introduced with his title because

767
00:53:27,548 --> 00:53:28,488
you're just like, ah, titles.

768
00:53:30,308 --> 00:53:36,148
I think there's a certain irreverence within Bitcoin and within Bitcoin period and throughout

769
00:53:36,148 --> 00:53:36,548
the industry.

770
00:53:36,668 --> 00:53:41,788
But I think especially within our team, within Block as well, it's kind of like, oh, those

771
00:53:41,788 --> 00:53:48,468
guys never fully play by the rules or they just do what they got to do to get it done.

772
00:53:48,468 --> 00:53:48,828
Yeah.

773
00:53:49,528 --> 00:53:50,088
No, it's important.

774
00:53:50,088 --> 00:53:59,328
And I think taking a step back and really coming back to Block's involvement with Bitcoin and making a bold stance.

775
00:53:59,388 --> 00:54:00,968
We want to make Bitcoin everyday money.

776
00:54:01,968 --> 00:54:09,388
There's a lot of people in the traditional financial system in Washington, D.C. that may see that as somewhat aggressive.

777
00:54:09,388 --> 00:54:18,588
but it's incredibly refreshing to me because, as I said, radicalized by the great financial crisis,

778
00:54:19,408 --> 00:54:25,188
WikiLeaks, Edward Snowden leaks, whatever it may be, made it clear to me there's a lot of corruption

779
00:54:25,188 --> 00:54:27,808
and we need to fix the system.

780
00:54:27,888 --> 00:54:32,848
And the fact that Block is willing to take a bold stance like, hey, we're going to lean into Bitcoin.

781
00:54:33,048 --> 00:54:34,268
We want to make it everyday money.

782
00:54:34,268 --> 00:54:41,728
it's something that the United States and corporate culture is desperately missing and has been missing for some time.

783
00:54:41,848 --> 00:54:45,728
People plant the flag down and say, we're going to be bold.

784
00:54:45,868 --> 00:54:47,668
We're going to go after this. We think there needs to be change.

785
00:54:47,748 --> 00:54:50,148
We're going to be the change we want to see in the world.

786
00:54:50,688 --> 00:54:52,188
And hopefully it inspires other people.

787
00:54:52,188 --> 00:54:56,088
And you're saying other companies incorporating it, like SoFi just announced,

788
00:54:56,188 --> 00:54:58,448
they'll have buy-sell capabilities.

789
00:54:58,448 --> 00:55:02,628
They're also using Spark in the back end to do some international remittance.

790
00:55:02,628 --> 00:55:08,628
I think it's certainly gotten to the point where in corporate boardrooms across the country,

791
00:55:08,628 --> 00:55:15,348
particularly with FinTech and banking, the executives are bending the knee and saying,

792
00:55:15,348 --> 00:55:21,468
okay, this isn't going away. We need to figure out a way to incorporate it into that sense.

793
00:55:22,144 --> 00:55:27,544
Not that you need to give away any trade secrets to potential competitors, but what are some

794
00:55:27,544 --> 00:55:37,344
of the learnings, the hard learnings that your teams have had building on Bitcoin that

795
00:55:37,344 --> 00:55:39,544
you think a lot of others may run into?

796
00:55:39,544 --> 00:55:46,384
Bitcoin is not easy to build on at all, period.

797
00:55:46,384 --> 00:55:52,704
But I think if we weren't so principled, if we didn't think that the immaculate conception

798
00:55:52,704 --> 00:56:01,584
and the lack of foundation and venture capitalists and coercion, that Bitcoin is just free of

799
00:56:01,584 --> 00:56:02,584
all of that.

800
00:56:02,584 --> 00:56:04,484
It's the most neutral.

801
00:56:04,484 --> 00:56:08,484
Shipping a lot of these features that I think we'd want to get to customers would be a lot

802
00:56:08,484 --> 00:56:12,464
easier if we just used X, Y, or Z chain.

803
00:56:12,464 --> 00:56:17,364
Or if we just wanted to make a lot of money, we could turn on meme coins and all that, you know?

804
00:56:17,364 --> 00:56:17,864
Yeah, meme coins there.

805
00:56:17,964 --> 00:56:18,604
I'm trying to...

806
00:56:18,604 --> 00:56:23,324
And so, like, it's painful sometimes to be principled.

807
00:56:23,704 --> 00:56:24,104
It's been...

808
00:56:26,824 --> 00:56:31,684
There's definitely been, like, times where people are, like, some people are pulling this way, some people are pulling that way.

809
00:56:31,784 --> 00:56:37,584
And I think it requires a really strong, principled, visionary leader like Jack.

810
00:56:37,584 --> 00:56:44,144
and I cannot tell you the amount of times that I've seen Jack had to have to like

811
00:56:45,744 --> 00:56:52,064
do say the hard thing and take the principled stand even when it's like I'm like really you're

812
00:56:52,064 --> 00:56:58,784
uh but he's just so the man um and I'm like eternally grateful for the way that he sets

813
00:56:58,784 --> 00:57:04,344
the tone for the company that it makes it very easy to to try my best in every situation to try

814
00:57:04,344 --> 00:57:11,164
to do the same. And so if there's one takeaway for people from this podcast is that Block Inc.

815
00:57:11,164 --> 00:57:16,524
is here for the right reasons. We're always trying to do the right thing for Bitcoin and

816
00:57:16,524 --> 00:57:26,324
we're taking that bigger picture vision into it. Well, it may seem counterintuitive or it may seem

817
00:57:26,324 --> 00:57:31,844
like Block or any other company that's not incorporating anything outside of Bitcoin is

818
00:57:31,844 --> 00:57:37,484
leaving money on the table, but I mean, at 1031, we are not venture capitalists.

819
00:57:38,764 --> 00:57:45,224
We do venture investing and we invest in companies focused on Bitcoin. And our thesis,

820
00:57:45,484 --> 00:57:52,044
our strategy is like, hey, this is a low time preference play by focusing and dedicating our

821
00:57:52,044 --> 00:57:57,364
energy and time on Bitcoin. It may not be obvious to many people right now, but in the long run,

822
00:57:57,364 --> 00:58:10,624
And that's going to be the right strategic move if you're able to focus, be hyper-focused and not get distracted by the bells, whistles and alarms of other distractions, as I would define them in the industry.

823
00:58:11,064 --> 00:58:15,884
You're going to have a better product, a better business and be positioned better in the future.

824
00:58:15,884 --> 00:58:25,064
You know, one thing I was reminded of by Pavlonex this week as we rolled out payments

825
00:58:25,064 --> 00:58:43,284
was that in 2019 we were the at Spiral we were the first donation ever to the BTC Pay server team that like there obviously good history behind that than most of your listeners know but it like a free and open source version of BitPay

826
00:58:43,844 --> 00:58:51,564
And we decided to sponsor them, even though they're like a direct competitor to like our payments business.

827
00:58:51,564 --> 00:59:15,344
But because we believe in the long-term mission of Bitcoin, because we believe that a rising tide lifts all boats, and that by being close to this project, by this project existing, by being able to learn from this project, I think the thesis back then was we'll be in so much better of a position to learn alongside them and then act when the time is right.

828
00:59:15,524 --> 00:59:19,424
And I think we're seeing that play out to some extent this week.

829
00:59:20,004 --> 00:59:21,964
Yeah, I mean, another example from Spiral is LDK,

830
00:59:22,344 --> 00:59:25,504
like the Lightning development kit built in Rust.

831
00:59:27,084 --> 00:59:29,584
I think that's another incredible example of,

832
00:59:29,684 --> 00:59:32,604
hey, we're going to fund these open source developers

833
00:59:32,604 --> 00:59:36,284
to work on this development kit for this Lightning implementation,

834
00:59:36,824 --> 00:59:39,564
and we're going to be able to leverage that.

835
00:59:40,004 --> 00:59:41,804
Not only is anybody going to be able to leverage that,

836
00:59:41,804 --> 00:59:44,724
but we'll also be able to leverage it to make our product better.

837
00:59:44,984 --> 00:59:48,884
And so to your point, that's something that I think most people,

838
00:59:49,424 --> 00:59:52,104
particularly in TradFi, FinTech,

839
00:59:52,804 --> 00:59:53,804
when they're looking at Bitcoin,

840
00:59:53,924 --> 00:59:55,684
don't understand your point of a rising tide,

841
00:59:56,284 --> 00:59:59,024
lists all boats, the interoperability of Bitcoin,

842
01:00:00,464 --> 01:00:03,444
one company's innovation, like Square,

843
01:00:03,824 --> 01:00:05,964
you guys open sourced your cold storage,

844
01:00:06,244 --> 01:00:08,364
your sort of security model.

845
01:00:08,704 --> 01:00:08,904
Sub-zero.

846
01:00:09,124 --> 01:00:09,544
Sub-zero.

847
01:00:10,084 --> 01:00:13,264
In the early days, like anybody could use that,

848
01:00:13,464 --> 01:00:14,504
including your competitors,

849
01:00:14,644 --> 01:00:15,304
but at the end of the day,

850
01:00:15,304 --> 01:00:17,224
if it's truly secure and robust,

851
01:00:17,224 --> 01:00:21,064
That's better for Bitcoin at the end of the day because you don't have exchanges getting

852
01:00:21,064 --> 01:00:22,224
hacked or whatever it may be.

853
01:00:22,224 --> 01:00:23,224
Yep.

854
01:00:23,224 --> 01:00:25,904
And we ultimately think we need to bring the entire company in this direction, this more

855
01:00:25,904 --> 01:00:33,704
decentralized, this more open direction that's epitomized by Bitcoin.

856
01:00:33,704 --> 01:00:39,984
But I think within the company, our Bitcoin team just last week, we actually open sourced

857
01:00:39,984 --> 01:00:45,304
some of our withdrawal, like the code that processes our withdrawals from cold storage.

858
01:00:45,304 --> 01:00:47,544
We open source that so that people could view that.

859
01:00:47,544 --> 01:00:51,564
And I think, as far as I know, that's some of the first stuff we've done on Cash App,

860
01:00:51,564 --> 01:00:56,464
but we want our customers to have even more visibility into our internal systems so that

861
01:00:56,464 --> 01:00:59,624
they can know they can trust us.

862
01:00:59,624 --> 01:01:07,544
As a company, we want to get to a place where our entire roadmap is open and viewable and

863
01:01:07,544 --> 01:01:13,184
commentable, perhaps, to the broader world, the broader Bitcoin world.

864
01:01:13,184 --> 01:01:18,084
And so I think building in public is something we've really embraced at Block Inc.

865
01:01:18,084 --> 01:01:20,544
I think we can do an even better job.

866
01:01:20,544 --> 01:01:26,184
It's something that in the last few weeks in particular, we've been trying to do across

867
01:01:26,184 --> 01:01:31,904
the Bitcoin projects for cash, Square, BitKey, etc.

868
01:01:31,904 --> 01:01:37,544
But my main focus now that we're obviously going to stay focused and deliver new things

869
01:01:37,544 --> 01:01:42,304
and enhancements on the Square work as well, we're going to be really focused on powering

870
01:01:42,304 --> 01:01:53,964
this flywheel of consumer awareness adoption and compensation and incentives But for me going into next year

871
01:01:53,964 --> 01:01:58,144
revitalizing Cash App, Bitcoin in particular,

872
01:01:58,144 --> 01:01:59,664
is gonna be my top priority.

873
01:01:59,664 --> 01:02:03,024
I think our features have atrophied

874
01:02:03,024 --> 01:02:05,324
over the last couple of years.

875
01:02:05,324 --> 01:02:08,444
And we've, to be honest, we've, on the Cash App side,

876
01:02:08,444 --> 01:02:11,424
after years of like tremendous, tremendous growth

877
01:02:11,424 --> 01:02:13,784
where we're just holding on for dear life,

878
01:02:13,864 --> 01:02:16,624
We've had to take things slower and patch some things up.

879
01:02:18,104 --> 01:02:25,244
And I think it's reflected in some of the care that we've given to our Bitcoin customers.

880
01:02:25,244 --> 01:02:27,064
And I deeply regret some of that.

881
01:02:27,064 --> 01:02:43,844
And so looking to next year, it's going to be a total priority to bring back our best customers, to offer the best fees, the best experience, and bring in some new features that aren't available anywhere else.

882
01:02:43,864 --> 01:02:48,584
So for anybody watching here that's been maybe used to use Cash App,

883
01:02:48,584 --> 01:02:50,524
used to love Cash App and has maybe moved to somewhere else,

884
01:02:50,524 --> 01:02:53,524
this is my promise to you right now that this is top of mind.

885
01:02:53,524 --> 01:02:58,084
And bringing everybody back into the block ecosystem via Cash App

886
01:02:58,084 --> 01:03:00,764
is a huge, huge priority for me.

887
01:03:00,864 --> 01:03:01,484
That's my baby.

888
01:03:02,224 --> 01:03:05,844
And it was really fun to see people engaging

889
01:03:05,844 --> 01:03:11,084
and seeing a lot of excitement again from the map feature.

890
01:03:11,084 --> 01:03:19,044
So I think there's a ton of opportunity there and a ton of opportunity to show the benefits of the entire ecosystem.

891
01:03:19,684 --> 01:03:25,304
I also want to make sure I plug BitKey's security upgrade last week.

892
01:03:25,404 --> 01:03:27,484
Oh, yeah. Chain code delegation.

893
01:03:28,164 --> 01:03:28,424
Yep.

894
01:03:29,064 --> 01:03:33,964
This is a big, I'll let you, I mean, your company released it.

895
01:03:34,104 --> 01:03:36,044
I'm very excited about the product, so I'll let you explain it.

896
01:03:36,044 --> 01:03:43,864
Well, without getting too deep in the details, basically, in most collaborative custody setups,

897
01:03:44,364 --> 01:03:48,584
you're trusting the company you're contracting with to be able to view your transactions.

898
01:03:49,264 --> 01:03:54,964
And with this, we introduce privacy from ourselves to give our customers more confidence

899
01:03:54,964 --> 01:04:03,684
that they can use their Bitcoin without a private company and maybe as proxy,

900
01:04:03,684 --> 01:04:06,324
like the government or anybody else as well.

901
01:04:06,324 --> 01:04:14,444
It introduces real privacy without compromising the recovery guarantees

902
01:04:14,444 --> 01:04:20,304
that are so important to the whole BitKey ethos and mission.

903
01:04:20,644 --> 01:04:25,424
And there's a BIP that was put out, but we built this for ourselves.

904
01:04:25,644 --> 01:04:28,164
And then again, we want to give it back out to the community

905
01:04:28,164 --> 01:04:31,264
so that other setups can similarly benefit from it.

906
01:04:31,584 --> 01:04:32,464
Yeah, that's massive.

907
01:04:32,464 --> 01:04:39,984
I mean, I've talked to Michael Flaxman who's had this idea of sort of a blinded key path

908
01:04:39,984 --> 01:04:42,724
in a collaborative custody set up for years.

909
01:04:42,824 --> 01:04:45,264
And the fact that you guys launch it is massive.

910
01:04:45,444 --> 01:04:49,224
So two or three set up, as long as I have two of the three keys and I can move the Bitcoin by myself.

911
01:04:49,864 --> 01:04:56,004
If I'm using BitKey, Block cannot see that I'm receiving or sending Bitcoin.

912
01:04:56,604 --> 01:05:07,804
Fallback option losing one of the keys need you guys to sign a transaction yes you know what included in that transaction but the ability to maintain and preserve privacy up until that fail moment is

913
01:05:07,804 --> 01:05:15,784
a massive boon and thank you guys for that for sure and uh i know we're we're pressed for time

914
01:05:15,784 --> 01:05:22,244
in this office but just what would you say not only to the bitcoiners out there but anybody

915
01:05:22,244 --> 01:05:28,384
who's within the block ecosystem, whether that's a Cash App user, a Square seller,

916
01:05:31,044 --> 01:05:34,424
those two particularly who are unfamiliar with Bitcoin,

917
01:05:35,264 --> 01:05:40,804
what would your pitch to them be to get more involved in the products around Bitcoin that you guys are launching?

918
01:05:40,804 --> 01:05:43,644
I mean, my favorite thing when talking to sellers,

919
01:05:45,824 --> 01:05:49,424
even if they're like normies, they don't love Bitcoin,

920
01:05:49,424 --> 01:06:01,044
But you're trying to talk to them about their current financial and treasury strategy, and you go like, wait, you're 100 percent dollars right now, like in this political climate.

921
01:06:01,304 --> 01:06:07,204
And you're like kind of like things click for people so much more than they did many years ago.

922
01:06:07,724 --> 01:06:13,204
People are feeling that instability in our economy, in our political system, in our institutions.

923
01:06:13,204 --> 01:06:19,084
And that was always kind of like the Bitcoin thesis eight, 10, 12 years ago.

924
01:06:19,424 --> 01:06:25,364
And for so many people, it's like, we're the world's greatest superpower.

925
01:06:25,884 --> 01:06:27,424
These institutions are forever.

926
01:06:27,864 --> 01:06:38,444
But I think a lot more people are feeling the fourth turning, like you said, or the changing of the guard or the whispers of a new era kind of appearing.

927
01:06:38,684 --> 01:06:45,304
And I think starting small, it's like, OK, yeah, maybe one percent Bitcoin on my treasury.

928
01:06:46,364 --> 01:06:48,264
Maybe it is good to hedge in this way.

929
01:06:48,264 --> 01:06:49,424
Maybe I should be diversified.

930
01:06:49,424 --> 01:06:54,924
Maybe I should be looking more deeply into this thing I keep hearing about.

931
01:06:55,764 --> 01:07:04,624
And with the recent news clearly is becoming foundational infrastructure of the entire economy.

932
01:07:05,044 --> 01:07:06,504
So I'd put it at that.

933
01:07:06,784 --> 01:07:06,904
Yeah.

934
01:07:07,144 --> 01:07:11,764
Maybe we won't wait eight years to record the next podcast.

935
01:07:11,864 --> 01:07:15,784
What I'm really interested to see is the curiosity gap that's crossed just because you have this

936
01:07:15,784 --> 01:07:22,264
Bitcoin brand touch in the Square Seller terminal, just as a seller. It's like, oh,

937
01:07:22,284 --> 01:07:25,104
there's this Bitcoin thing here. Don't really care about it now. We come back to it. It's like,

938
01:07:25,144 --> 01:07:31,864
oh, that Bitcoin thing's still there. How many nagging sort of seed reminders do you need before

939
01:07:31,864 --> 01:07:34,404
they're like, all right, I'll turn that on just a little bit, just mess around with it.

940
01:07:34,404 --> 01:07:41,624
There's so much opportunity to tap into from this foundation. And yeah, really,

941
01:07:41,624 --> 01:07:48,724
really, really pleased and honored to get to share this moment with you, Marty, after all these years.

942
01:07:48,724 --> 01:07:56,564
Because to me, this has been one of the best weeks of my life, finally achieving this thing that we set out to do

943
01:07:56,564 --> 01:08:02,044
eight years ago of connecting the ecosystem with both the consumer and the merchant side.

944
01:08:02,764 --> 01:08:05,424
The most underrated man in Bitcoin, ladies and gentlemen.

945
01:08:05,564 --> 01:08:06,984
Miles, thank you for your time.

946
01:08:07,084 --> 01:08:08,324
Thank you for all that you're doing.

947
01:08:08,324 --> 01:08:09,524
it is an honor

948
01:08:09,524 --> 01:08:10,444
and a privilege

949
01:08:10,444 --> 01:08:11,684
to call you friends there

950
01:08:11,684 --> 01:08:12,864
thank you so much Marty

951
01:08:12,864 --> 01:08:13,964
peace and love freaks

952
01:08:13,964 --> 01:08:14,504
thank you bro

953
01:08:14,504 --> 01:08:15,684
love you too