1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,920
You've had a dynamic where money has become freer than free.

2
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,040
We talk about a Fed just gone nuts.

3
00:00:13,500 --> 00:00:15,680
All the central banks going nuts.

4
00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:17,880
So it's all acting like safe haven.

5
00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:25,260
I believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency, Bitcoin wins.

6
00:00:25,340 --> 00:00:28,480
In the world of fiat currencies, Bitcoin is the victor.

7
00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,380
I mean, that's part of the bull case for Bitcoin.

8
00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,240
If you're not paying attention, you probably should be.

9
00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,540
Oh, God. Oh, God is right.

10
00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:45,380
Ladies and gentlemen, I regret to inform you that Justin Moon has got the itch again.

11
00:00:45,700 --> 00:00:48,820
And when Justin Moon gets the itch, things get done.

12
00:00:48,820 --> 00:00:54,080
I'm not drunk this time. I think every other time I've been on this podcast, I've been severely drunk.

13
00:00:54,080 --> 00:01:01,540
yeah dude i mean we've been talking behind the scenes it was just showing you some of the work

14
00:01:01,540 --> 00:01:07,260
i've been doing well you haven't been doing it um yeah you've been having work done as they say

15
00:01:07,260 --> 00:01:13,520
in la yes i have i have my clanker i have my clanker working on it as people like to say

16
00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,060
i don't know we've been talking a lot about this for over a year now i mean you taught me how to

17
00:01:17,060 --> 00:01:21,440
out of VibeCode about a year ago, you and Anthony.

18
00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,280
I was still in Austin, and a lot has happened since then.

19
00:01:25,580 --> 00:01:29,680
And I think even when we did the BTC++ thing,

20
00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:31,180
I remember talking to you after that, and you're like,

21
00:01:31,260 --> 00:01:32,640
I don't know what I want to do.

22
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:33,760
I don't got the itch for anything.

23
00:01:33,860 --> 00:01:34,540
I'm going to take time.

24
00:01:35,460 --> 00:01:37,060
And then in recent weeks, we've been talking,

25
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,060
and you told me you have the itch again.

26
00:01:40,060 --> 00:01:45,800
And you're itching because it seems like we've reached a tipping point

27
00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,800
in terms of what is possible with these LLMs, these agents,

28
00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,160
and how far we can push Freedom Tech specifically.

29
00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:53,660
Yeah, exactly.

30
00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:54,700
Why don't you walk us through?

31
00:01:55,980 --> 00:02:00,080
Yeah, I feel like right now, just in the last month or two,

32
00:02:00,300 --> 00:02:02,120
so I've been, you know, for the last year,

33
00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,300
like, you know, I left Fetty like a year and a half ago or so,

34
00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,800
and was just kind of taking a break for a couple months,

35
00:02:07,860 --> 00:02:10,000
and then Alex Gladstein reached out and was like,

36
00:02:10,020 --> 00:02:12,000
hey, would you like to start an AI program with HRF?

37
00:02:12,020 --> 00:02:12,760
Would you like to help?

38
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:14,760
And I'm like, sure, I'll help kind of on the side, though,

39
00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,400
you know, cause I'm not really ready for a full-time thing.

40
00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,580
And, you know, so help like, you know, a little bit part-time.

41
00:02:20,980 --> 00:02:26,140
And so I had like a nice kind of front row seat to just kind of watch and just play,

42
00:02:26,220 --> 00:02:27,160
play around with stuff.

43
00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,540
And I think that's one of the most important things to do.

44
00:02:30,540 --> 00:02:32,620
That's been the most useful thing for me to just play.

45
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,320
And I was just reading, listening to a podcast.

46
00:02:34,420 --> 00:02:36,400
I'm over here with the Peter Steinberger guy, the open claw guy.

47
00:02:36,420 --> 00:02:38,320
And he's like, you know, that's what he, he did the same thing.

48
00:02:38,460 --> 00:02:41,980
He sold the company, took three years off, came back and just played for like a year

49
00:02:41,980 --> 00:02:43,940
and played with tools.

50
00:02:43,940 --> 00:02:53,820
So, you know, like I've been I think I probably five coded like probably two, three hundred projects over the last year and had like a very specific like.

51
00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:02,600
Decision not to ship anything right to feel no pressure to ship or to be productive at all, just to play and have fun.

52
00:03:02,740 --> 00:03:06,700
And this is actually a million from Primal kind of helped me understand this.

53
00:03:06,740 --> 00:03:08,540
He's talking about like a previous company he did.

54
00:03:08,540 --> 00:03:12,780
He's like, don't you know, don't don't hurry back into it because that's kind of my I was actually.

55
00:03:12,780 --> 00:03:15,760
yeah, I tried to hurry back into it this time too.

56
00:03:15,820 --> 00:03:16,620
And it was like, yeah, that's just,

57
00:03:16,700 --> 00:03:17,960
I just need to take some time off.

58
00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:20,800
And so that's what I did for like a year.

59
00:03:21,180 --> 00:03:22,580
I played around with it a lot,

60
00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:23,980
kind of through the HRF capacity,

61
00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:25,320
went to Sovereign Engineering twice,

62
00:03:25,420 --> 00:03:29,720
which is Gigi and Pablo's little idea factory in Madeira.

63
00:03:29,900 --> 00:03:30,900
You know, you show up in an island

64
00:03:30,900 --> 00:03:32,220
and meet up with a group of people

65
00:03:32,220 --> 00:03:34,760
and every week you try to like ship something new.

66
00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,820
And this last one, I think every day I was trying to,

67
00:03:37,940 --> 00:03:39,240
not ship, but like build something new,

68
00:03:39,260 --> 00:03:40,800
build a prototype that is usable

69
00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:41,860
by the other people in the cohort,

70
00:03:41,860 --> 00:03:45,460
but not something that's going to change the world necessarily. Experiment with new ideas.

71
00:03:46,260 --> 00:03:50,600
And so, yeah, that's kind of what I've been doing for the last year, basically, just playing around

72
00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:55,500
with these things, learning. And then just over the last couple of weeks, it just starts to feel

73
00:03:55,500 --> 00:04:01,460
like it's like, OK, you know, timing is always everything. Like when do you if you try really

74
00:04:01,460 --> 00:04:08,940
hard at the wrong time, it doesn't it doesn't work, you know, like it has felt over the last

75
00:04:08,940 --> 00:04:14,280
like month or two it's like okay now is like we have like a window uh for things you know i kind

76
00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,140
of i'm starting to get the feel i wouldn't have said this two weeks ago but like even maybe a

77
00:04:18,140 --> 00:04:21,980
month ago but it's starting to feel like you know like a century could happen in the next five years

78
00:04:21,980 --> 00:04:27,360
you know uh in the sense that like maybe maybe not that much has happened since world war ii

79
00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:33,940
you know uh we kind of live in the same world that the korean war happened in you know or something

80
00:04:33,940 --> 00:04:38,380
you know what i mean like it's not like a lot of things have changed like we have more technology

81
00:04:38,380 --> 00:04:44,980
and we have the internet we have you know certain cultural things have changed we have rock and roll

82
00:04:44,980 --> 00:04:49,640
a little more than we did back then but it's like it's not that much different in like 75 years and

83
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:58,080
like i don't know it seems like the world in many different ways is kind of unraveling and you know

84
00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:03,640
from a negative side and then on a positive side there's like this groundswell of like you know

85
00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:09,400
intelligence that's happening and it's yeah from from like a social and a techno tech side just like

86
00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:16,300
the last couple months have felt like like i don't know like some i don't know like uh like a bud

87
00:05:16,300 --> 00:05:20,540
starting to to cut you know like something's something's happening here so that's kind of why

88
00:05:20,540 --> 00:05:27,580
why i'm i'm kind of this last last week or two i'm like okay it's time to time to like uh whatever

89
00:05:27,580 --> 00:05:34,740
or take dust the sword off you know and get back out there well what is it particularly that

90
00:05:34,740 --> 00:05:42,200
makes you feel this like what state these yeah so i'll tell you one i mean two two two things

91
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:49,000
uh and they're kind of insane uh i mean i feel i feel a little bit like uh i'm always every day

92
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:54,060
i'm like do i have to what degree do i have ai psychosis right now like i try to be you know so

93
00:05:54,060 --> 00:05:57,360
So like on one thing, so last, so the first time I went to the sovereign engineering program,

94
00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,280
you know, I tried to, the goal was to enjoy programming again.

95
00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,280
Cause like that was my profession for a long time.

96
00:06:04,280 --> 00:06:06,100
And then I hated it for a while.

97
00:06:06,380 --> 00:06:08,740
I really didn't like sitting down at the computer every time I tried.

98
00:06:08,740 --> 00:06:10,920
I kind of didn't, didn't enjoy it.

99
00:06:11,060 --> 00:06:13,360
And, uh, and I missed it.

100
00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,880
And so I was just trying to find a way to enjoy it again.

101
00:06:16,260 --> 00:06:20,200
And what I did was like, there was, I had this idea for how you could build a mobile

102
00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:25,420
app that what I always wanted, kind of like how I internalized my experience of building the Fedi

103
00:06:25,420 --> 00:06:29,760
mobile app and just like observations I had along the way. It's like, this would be a fun way to

104
00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,980
build mobile apps. And the idea is, you know, the thing you want with mobile apps is you ideally

105
00:06:34,980 --> 00:06:39,080
you'd like to write it once and have it run on multiple platforms like iOS and Android, right?

106
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,840
And that's kind of the holy grail. It's half as much work. And so that's why something like React

107
00:06:42,840 --> 00:06:48,180
Native became very popular and Flutter. So that's kind of the, the, the, the premise,

108
00:06:48,180 --> 00:06:56,280
but they're like an abstraction layer between the native system, like actual iOS, actual Android, and your code.

109
00:06:56,380 --> 00:07:04,420
So you have like a thin or like a big pane of glass between you and the system you're operating on that distorts.

110
00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:09,260
And you can't really achieve, it limits like what you can do in a sense,

111
00:07:09,340 --> 00:07:15,680
because there's like a level of distortion that happens here with a huge layer of technology between the native platform and yourself.

112
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:24,060
And so I had this vision of like, you write the entire application in Rust and it models everything about your app, like what page you're on, what the router we call it, right?

113
00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,120
Like literally everything happens in Rust.

114
00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:34,120
And then you have a very thin layer on top on iOS and Android that uses the platform native way of drawing to the screen.

115
00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:40,060
And so it feels like a native app, like, you know, like this new liquid glass thing that they did.

116
00:07:40,060 --> 00:07:45,160
Like if somebody is using the native thing, you can just kind of feel it in your monkey brain.

117
00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:50,220
uh so your lizard brain and so that was kind of my idea i had this vision for how you could do this

118
00:07:50,220 --> 00:07:55,800
and how and i worked on this for like four weeks um and i kind of almost got there but couldn't

119
00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:00,140
quite ship it uh i want i kind of started to want to ship it i wanted to ship something and i worked

120
00:08:00,140 --> 00:08:06,420
on it for like a good month doing like iterations every week and so last friday i was streaming uh

121
00:08:06,420 --> 00:08:09,980
i started to do these little live streams on on nostril where like 10 people show up it's perfect

122
00:08:09,980 --> 00:08:14,900
uh marty marty was played a big role because he showed up in the first one and gave me a fat zap

123
00:08:14,900 --> 00:08:17,140
I'm like, okay, if Marty likes it, I might be on to something, right?

124
00:08:17,180 --> 00:08:19,580
A couple of my friends showed up and they all said good things.

125
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,940
So I'm like, I mean, it was a Friday night.

126
00:08:22,060 --> 00:08:22,680
I was at this desk.

127
00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:27,420
Yeah, and I was in the West Coast and I was, you know, I started at like 9 p.m. or something.

128
00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,800
So I'm like, I'm purposefully trying not to get viewers, basically.

129
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:31,840
Just a few, right?

130
00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,500
And I'm a little self-conscious there.

131
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:36,980
And so that was the previous week.

132
00:08:37,060 --> 00:08:39,540
So last week I was streaming and I was getting really pissed off.

133
00:08:39,660 --> 00:08:43,140
Like my stream kept coming in and out, like technical problems and it wasn't working.

134
00:08:43,140 --> 00:08:44,120
So I just turned it off.

135
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,420
And then I started working on this Rust multi-platform idea again.

136
00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,940
And over the course of 24 hours, I built what I couldn't build in a month last summer.

137
00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:53,360
And it's better.

138
00:08:54,620 --> 00:08:58,560
And then I did a stream with Paul Miller like a day or two ago.

139
00:08:59,100 --> 00:09:05,260
And we got a really nice mobile app working with this that uses Marmot protocol.

140
00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,560
So Marmot protocol is the thing underneath white noise, appear to white noise.

141
00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:13,200
The premise of white noise is to fill a gap that exists in FreedomTech right now.

142
00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:24,400
We don't have an end-to-end encrypted messenger that uses like best in class, like encryption and privacy tools that doesn't depend on a single third party like Signal, right?

143
00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,820
Like Signal's great, but there's a company that runs everything.

144
00:09:28,580 --> 00:09:38,800
And so the idea is like, well, could you have the same user experience but have more freedom and like consumer choice like we do on Nostra with relays, right?

145
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,640
Like, could you choose which service is going to forward your messages?

146
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,820
And if you're getting censored by everyone, could you run one yourself?

147
00:09:48,300 --> 00:09:49,720
Right. And so that's the premise of Marmot.

148
00:09:49,780 --> 00:09:55,220
And I've been a fan for the last year with what Jeff and his team are doing on White Noise.

149
00:09:55,540 --> 00:10:00,380
I'm I'm I'm I always wish I could help them more, but I'm like, I'm you know, I'm not trying to be productive.

150
00:10:01,260 --> 00:10:07,240
And so so we made a mobile app, a really nice native mobile app that feels like a native mobile app.

151
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:12,160
And then I built an extension for OpenClaw that could send and receive messages from OpenClaw.

152
00:10:12,660 --> 00:10:23,320
So I built a way to talk to OpenClaw that has the privacy characteristics of signal and no central third party.

153
00:10:23,500 --> 00:10:29,700
And I'm standing on the shoulders of giants here because White Noise and Jeff and the Marmot team have been working on this for like two years.

154
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,340
So most of the work was theirs.

155
00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,340
But that's what I've been doing the last couple of days.

156
00:10:36,340 --> 00:10:42,820
And to me, the big one of the big things is, OK, I just did a project in one or two days and it's better than what took me a month last summer.

157
00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:47,680
And a lot of it's just how much smarter the models have got. I was cheating. Also, I was pointing at my previous experiment.

158
00:10:47,860 --> 00:10:56,160
So we got a little farther. But that's like that. That was like, OK, I just did something that was like would be a good achievement for like a year.

159
00:10:56,420 --> 00:11:00,720
It's not quite done, but like another week. And it's like that would be a good achievement for a year of work.

160
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,480
and I can do it in roughly a week.

161
00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:07,440
And I have a big text note of all kinds of other ideas like this.

162
00:11:08,220 --> 00:11:11,720
And so it just feels like, I don't know, it just feels like fishing opener, right?

163
00:11:11,740 --> 00:11:14,300
It's like, okay, it's time to go fishing, right?

164
00:11:14,700 --> 00:11:16,840
Like, let's get the, come on, Dad.

165
00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:17,700
Come on, Taylor.

166
00:11:17,780 --> 00:11:19,160
Let's get in the boat.

167
00:11:19,260 --> 00:11:20,380
Let's go fishing, right?

168
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:22,420
So that's kind of, that was one.

169
00:11:23,100 --> 00:11:24,780
In terms of like how the world's different.

170
00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:28,620
And then honestly, it sounds weird, but like the Epstein thing is another thing where it's like,

171
00:11:28,620 --> 00:11:36,860
okay uh there there seems to be like these big you know there may be big conspiracies that are

172
00:11:36,860 --> 00:11:42,740
unraveling in front of our eyes like uh and like the attorney like the attorney general is giving

173
00:11:42,740 --> 00:11:49,720
the most insane uh congressional testimony i've ever i could even imagine like in a comedy movie

174
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:55,860
um you know it's like the dow is so high we can't prosecute pedophiles it's just like what like

175
00:11:55,860 --> 00:12:01,060
uh i don't know that's just one anecdote in the last couple days and there's it seems like there's

176
00:12:01,060 --> 00:12:05,520
been many of these where it's just like okay something's unraveling here right like something

177
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:11,480
really bad i don't want to go too deep in that hole but it's like something that spans many you

178
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:18,740
know like uh you know most of my whole life a while people are just catching up i know well

179
00:12:18,740 --> 00:12:47,360
I've been there too, but it's starting to, like, there, you can feel something on, it's like, if I visual, it's like, there's a ball of yarn that is spinning right now, and it's getting smaller, right? And you can see that. So that's one of the things where I feel like it's like, on both tech and social side of things, like, it seems like, it seems like there's like a big shift that's happening.

180
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:52,280
and i don't know you've seen people i think other people are seeing this too like cali had a post

181
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,800
on nostr the other day and i just saw matt corralo retweeted it and said the same thing basically

182
00:12:55,800 --> 00:13:02,420
saying like hey it's kind of do or it's not it's it you know we're not going to get like a bitcoin's

183
00:13:02,420 --> 00:13:09,860
not going to um succeed on its own you know and our ideas aren't going to succeed on their own

184
00:13:09,860 --> 00:13:14,160
uh we have to you know we need to champion them and we need to fight for them and kind of now

185
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:19,860
now is the time to do it. Like you have, there's nothing stopping you. Uh, and so, uh, yeah. And

186
00:13:19,860 --> 00:13:25,500
I mean, the open cloth thing also, I know I've, I have watched this whole phenomenon mostly because

187
00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:31,540
I've been just trying to get really good at vibe coding. So I, I saw Peter Steinberger's posts about

188
00:13:31,540 --> 00:13:37,140
how he vibe codes, uh, like two months ago. And I've integrated a lot of that into my workflow.

189
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,860
And I, I've been a student of his GitHub projects, but not of his product. I've actually barely used

190
00:13:42,860 --> 00:13:46,960
open code. I started trying last week and then I got nerd sniped. I'm like, well, we need a better

191
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,760
way to communicate it with over an Oscar. So I actually have accomplished very little with open

192
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:56,420
code. Uh, but I'm, I'm trying, I'm just, I'm, I'm sort of going to start going one by one

193
00:13:56,420 --> 00:14:02,240
on these kinds of missing primitives to make it like freedom tech, uh, compliant, you know? So

194
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:07,200
like this, having like a really, really, really good hardcore way of talking to it is where we

195
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,860
start. Right. And then, so last night, you know, I have, I have a way to send text messages and

196
00:14:11,860 --> 00:14:17,140
and encrypted to it. And so last night I'm adding video calling or audio calling. So I can talk,

197
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:22,600
I'm going to try to talk to it. And as I'm going, I'm implementing another thing that I was working

198
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:29,120
on in the second cohort I was at for sovereign engineering, where I had this idea for like

199
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:35,920
Noster is good at exchanging text. You know, it's all text-based right now. And it's even how it

200
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:41,520
does text is kind of slow, right? It's a JSON and there's like levels of like serialization and

201
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:46,760
stuff that make it a little slower. So you definitely can't do real-time, like doing real-time

202
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:53,020
video, real-time things like video, audio, streaming, game state, and video games. I think

203
00:14:53,020 --> 00:14:58,720
games are a huge opportunity for Nostra that nobody, I haven't seen any, like the best experiment

204
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,140
I've seen was actually me and Paul Miller made a little game called InPub. I don't know if it

205
00:15:02,140 --> 00:15:07,720
works right now, but it was InPub.Russell.app or something. And it was like a pixel art level,

206
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:12,840
right like think of like the pokemon video games and there was a room it was a little level with

207
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:19,780
three rooms and if you're if you could just jump in with your your login with monster and if you're

208
00:15:19,780 --> 00:15:23,600
in the same room you can talk to people when you leave the room you don't hear them anymore and so

209
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:29,060
we were doing this audio over this thing called media over quick and the media over quick is uh

210
00:15:29,060 --> 00:15:35,160
it's a very simple technology it's you call like binary pub sub so at binary pub sub and binary

211
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:40,380
means just data like raw data like voice like the actual readings off my microphone like the

212
00:15:40,380 --> 00:15:45,480
sine waves off my microphone or video right like actual frame you know lists of pixels of each

213
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:50,760
frame that my camera captures so that's what binary just means that like raw data you know

214
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:56,140
not like necessarily jace not structured data like json but raw and uh pub stub means you can

215
00:15:56,140 --> 00:16:02,100
publish and you can subscribe so if i'm let's say we were doing this recording over media over quick

216
00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:06,340
my computer is publishing two streams, my audio and my video.

217
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:08,980
Your computer is doing the same thing.

218
00:16:09,540 --> 00:16:21,860
And then my computer is subscribing to your audio and video, and yours is doing the same thing.

219
00:16:21,900 --> 00:16:22,900
So that's what PubSub means.

220
00:16:23,060 --> 00:16:24,220
And it's the same thing as Nostra, right?

221
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:25,360
Nostra is PubSub.

222
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:27,440
You publish and you subscribe, right?

223
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:36,120
And so, and it's a very similar architecture to Nostra where you have a really dumb server, like a Nostra server, a Nostra relay doesn't really know anything.

224
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,140
It enforces some nips, right?

225
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:45,320
Like it checks signatures, but it doesn't really know the business logic of the primal web app, for example.

226
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:46,980
Doesn't know shit about that.

227
00:16:47,300 --> 00:16:49,040
The client is smarter, right?

228
00:16:49,040 --> 00:17:00,940
And so that's kind of how we achieve this nice middle ground of kind of censorship resistance, where it's not like fully peer to peer and buggy, but we're also not going to a third party.

229
00:17:01,340 --> 00:17:11,580
So like X.com. Right. And so it's like a level of, you know, it's distributed enough to not have the centralization risks, but it also works. Right.

230
00:17:11,580 --> 00:17:16,580
And so this media over quick technology is like a cool thing because it's very similar to Nostre.

231
00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:20,560
And so, yeah, I'm kind of trying to build a stack.

232
00:17:21,660 --> 00:17:31,880
The last two days, I'm trying to build a stack for real time over Nostre that I think is more aligned to the Nostre principles than the WebRTC,

233
00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:36,220
which is what like Primal and Zapstream and stuff use now, just because that's the standard, right?

234
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:37,560
Like not blaming them or anything.

235
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:39,300
That's what everyone uses.

236
00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:42,140
And WebRTC is like an insane thing, right?

237
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:43,800
It's a browser standard.

238
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,080
You know, it's a standard that went into the web.

239
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,520
This is the official standard every browser has to implement.

240
00:17:49,060 --> 00:17:56,620
And it was basically Google shipping their meet, meet, Google meet, like their web app, their app as a browser standard.

241
00:17:56,780 --> 00:18:07,180
And they made it so complicated that Safari and Firefox, the two other major browser vendors that actually implement their own browser engine, they just use Google's code.

242
00:18:07,180 --> 00:18:13,540
It's so complicated and it's so complex that they don't bother to implement it themselves.

243
00:18:13,740 --> 00:18:14,800
They just ship Google's code.

244
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,800
So it's like it's kind of an insane thing where, you know, we talked about like regulatory capture.

245
00:18:20,020 --> 00:18:22,420
This is like this is like specification capture, right?

246
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:28,080
Like the big tech platforms make the web so complex that now you can't build a new browser.

247
00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:30,900
Right. That was the idea for a long time.

248
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,060
It's like and I think it's on purpose because someone like Apple, the last thing they want is more browsers.

249
00:18:35,060 --> 00:18:39,380
right because the browser is the only way you can route around the app store on on ios right it's

250
00:18:39,380 --> 00:18:43,800
the only way you can run arbitrary code without having to go you know without having permission

251
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:50,160
through their walled garden so they want like tight tight control over that right um i know

252
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:54,580
this is one of the other projects i did during this year is i built a browser you know like and

253
00:18:54,580 --> 00:18:59,420
i learned all this stuff about how i think browsers are you know they it's kind of one of the reasons

254
00:18:59,420 --> 00:19:04,600
why the web died is like you just had these big tech platforms have full control over this what was

255
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:11,180
this like beautiful ground up thing. And it stopped being that way. Once these big, big companies and

256
00:19:11,180 --> 00:19:16,660
their, their, their, their committees have control over it. So that's, that's so, so, uh, TLDR,

257
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:22,120
right? Like in, in two, two, three days, I built the thing I spent the first sovereign engineering

258
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:26,500
cohort building. And then now in two, three days, I'm getting close to building the second,

259
00:19:26,820 --> 00:19:29,660
the one I tried to do in the second one. And both these sovereign engineering cohorts,

260
00:19:29,660 --> 00:19:34,580
I failed to finish them. Uh, and now in a couple of days, it feels like I'm, I'm going to get it

261
00:19:34,580 --> 00:19:41,280
to work. And the end result is that I have like a beautiful, simple, fast, native feeling mobile app

262
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:47,360
that can talk to my bot, either over text or voice or soon video. And I can also do all this with my

263
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:53,440
friends over, you know, in a mobile app, and I can talk to white noise, and other things. Right. So

264
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:57,400
it's like, if you don't like my app, you can use white noise, which is beautiful, right? Like you

265
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:03,420
don't get captured into one client either. And yeah, so it's just like, dang, we're in a new

266
00:20:03,420 --> 00:20:05,700
world. It's time to hit the gas.

267
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,520
What's up, freaks? This rep was brought to you by

268
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,460
good friends at Silent. Silent creates everyday

269
00:20:09,460 --> 00:20:11,260
Faraday gear that protects your hardware.

270
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,480
We're in Bitcoin. We have a lot of hardware that we

271
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,560
need to secure. Your wallet emits signals

272
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,520
that can leave you vulnerable. You want to

273
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,560
pick up Silent's gear, put your hardware

274
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,360
in that. I have a tap signer right here.

275
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:23,520
I got the Silent card holder. Replace

276
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,440
my wallet. I was using Ridge Wallet because it's secured

277
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,300
against RFID signal jacking.

278
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,440
Silent, the card holder, does the same

279
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,340
thing. It's much sleeker. Fits in my pocket

280
00:20:31,340 --> 00:20:35,580
much easier. I also have the Faraday phone sleeve, which you can put a hardware wallet in.

281
00:20:35,860 --> 00:20:38,640
We're actually using it for our keys at the house too. There's been a lot of robberies. They have

282
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:43,360
essential Faraday slings, Faraday backpacks. It's a Bitcoin company. They're running on a Bitcoin

283
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:57,338
standard They have a Bitcoin treasury They accept Bitcoin via strike So go to slnt slash tftc to get 15 off anything or simply just use the code TFTC when shopping at slnt Patented technology special operations approved

284
00:20:57,698 --> 00:21:00,998
It has free shipping as well. So go check it out. So freaks, if you've been listening for a while,

285
00:21:00,998 --> 00:21:05,218
you've probably heard us all talk about BitKey. It's a Bitcoin wallet built for people who want

286
00:21:05,218 --> 00:21:09,118
self-custody to actually fit into their lives. BitKey is a private multi-sig wallet that removes

287
00:21:09,118 --> 00:21:12,238
the biggest point of failure in traditional self-custody, the seed phrase, no ceremony,

288
00:21:12,578 --> 00:21:13,158
nothing to hide,

289
00:21:13,398 --> 00:21:14,198
and no single mistake

290
00:21:14,198 --> 00:21:15,358
that can put your Bitcoin at risk.

291
00:21:15,538 --> 00:21:16,778
We all know things get lost.

292
00:21:17,058 --> 00:21:17,918
I lose things all the time.

293
00:21:18,438 --> 00:21:19,138
Phones get replaced.

294
00:21:19,318 --> 00:21:19,898
Life happens.

295
00:21:20,398 --> 00:21:21,718
BitKey specifically is designed

296
00:21:21,718 --> 00:21:22,878
so your Bitcoin stays secure

297
00:21:22,878 --> 00:21:23,758
and recoverable

298
00:21:23,758 --> 00:21:25,098
without demanding constant attention

299
00:21:25,098 --> 00:21:25,698
or expertise

300
00:21:25,698 --> 00:21:27,558
because it's built for the long term.

301
00:21:27,978 --> 00:21:28,878
Inheritance is built in

302
00:21:28,878 --> 00:21:30,318
so your Bitcoin can move securely

303
00:21:30,318 --> 00:21:31,298
into the next generation.

304
00:21:31,798 --> 00:21:32,718
It's Bitcoin self-custody

305
00:21:32,718 --> 00:21:33,518
built for real life

306
00:21:33,518 --> 00:21:34,798
and for February only

307
00:21:34,798 --> 00:21:35,618
for you freaks, okay?

308
00:21:36,058 --> 00:21:36,698
February only.

309
00:21:36,858 --> 00:21:37,898
You got 28 days,

310
00:21:37,958 --> 00:21:38,478
not a leap year.

311
00:21:38,578 --> 00:21:38,958
I'm pretty sure.

312
00:21:39,038 --> 00:21:39,618
28 days.

313
00:21:40,298 --> 00:21:40,838
You listeners,

314
00:21:41,178 --> 00:21:41,918
TFTC listeners,

315
00:21:42,238 --> 00:21:47,178
and get BitKey for $99 using code TFTC99 at bitkey.world.

316
00:21:47,438 --> 00:21:49,618
That's B-I-T-K-E-Y dot world.

317
00:21:49,998 --> 00:21:54,458
Use the code TFTC99, and you're going to get a BitKey for $99.

318
00:21:55,158 --> 00:21:57,638
Yeah, I think you're honing in on a few things here.

319
00:21:57,918 --> 00:22:04,018
I think most importantly is that I think people are looking at what's happening in AI,

320
00:22:04,418 --> 00:22:07,438
particularly with the hyperscalers and the closed-source models.

321
00:22:07,438 --> 00:22:12,938
they're saying, oh, they're going to, what they say goes moving forward.

322
00:22:13,118 --> 00:22:19,478
Like they're the new Google, maybe Google, maybe Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon,

323
00:22:19,638 --> 00:22:20,098
if ever, maybe.

324
00:22:20,218 --> 00:22:24,778
It's like, oh, they're going to just plant their flag and assert their dominance

325
00:22:24,778 --> 00:22:26,098
and increase their dominance.

326
00:22:26,278 --> 00:22:27,938
But I think what you're highlighting here is that,

327
00:22:28,498 --> 00:22:30,558
while this may be true to an extent, if we let it,

328
00:22:31,278 --> 00:22:37,418
if you actually exert some agency and use the tools to our advantage,

329
00:22:37,438 --> 00:22:39,858
in terms of proliferating freedom tech.

330
00:22:40,018 --> 00:22:40,738
It can be done.

331
00:22:40,918 --> 00:22:44,598
I think that's been, to your point about what Kale and Corallo

332
00:22:44,598 --> 00:22:48,078
were talking about earlier this week, I saw that exchange.

333
00:22:48,398 --> 00:22:49,218
I think it's totally true.

334
00:22:49,358 --> 00:22:52,298
The onus is on us to begin building these tools.

335
00:22:52,418 --> 00:22:53,118
It's never been easier.

336
00:22:53,238 --> 00:22:56,118
I think the hardest part of these open-source software projects

337
00:22:56,118 --> 00:23:00,718
up to this point has just been finding people to spend the time

338
00:23:00,718 --> 00:23:04,878
to do the thankless work, to build it out, make it usable.

339
00:23:04,878 --> 00:23:09,258
now with these LLMs, like anybody, the idea guys can come in and help.

340
00:23:09,498 --> 00:23:10,878
Yeah, so two thoughts there.

341
00:23:11,058 --> 00:23:16,698
Like one is that, you know, with HRF, we did like a, we have a program called AI for

342
00:23:16,698 --> 00:23:17,838
Individual Rights, right?

343
00:23:17,878 --> 00:23:19,518
And it started like nine months ago.

344
00:23:19,978 --> 00:23:25,238
And so we did a big event in San Francisco in November called the AI Summit.

345
00:23:25,978 --> 00:23:31,558
And so there's this guy, Ramez, he's at Ramez on X or Twitter, a sci-fi writer, and he had

346
00:23:31,558 --> 00:23:32,258
a great talk.

347
00:23:32,258 --> 00:23:35,658
If you can find it, I would encourage anyone to listen to it.

348
00:23:35,698 --> 00:23:36,938
I think it was posted somewhere.

349
00:23:37,758 --> 00:23:44,138
And so his talk was about one of the things he pointed out was that like a year ago, everyone was scared that you'd have a runaway winner.

350
00:23:45,078 --> 00:23:49,278
And a year ago, it looked like it would be OpenAI or Google or something.

351
00:23:49,478 --> 00:23:54,638
I mean, OpenAI was created because Elon Musk was scared that Google would be the runaway winner.

352
00:23:55,278 --> 00:23:57,338
And then that OpenAI happened.

353
00:23:57,338 --> 00:24:05,758
And then Anthropic was created out of OpenAI engineers because they were scared that OpenAI would be the runaway winner and they would control everyone's destiny.

354
00:24:06,118 --> 00:24:07,898
And who knows, in a few years that might happen.

355
00:24:08,098 --> 00:24:10,438
But in the last year, there's been zero evidence.

356
00:24:10,538 --> 00:24:11,738
It's gotten more and more competitive.

357
00:24:12,538 --> 00:24:19,298
And I think I haven't tried them yet, but in the last day or two, you know, you had GLM-5 and Minimax 2.5 released.

358
00:24:19,298 --> 00:24:27,618
These are both Chinese open source, open weight models that are damn near as good as Opus 4.6 or whatever we're on right now.

359
00:24:28,158 --> 00:24:32,118
And of course, that was released a while ago. So Anthropica's Cook.

360
00:24:32,678 --> 00:24:34,878
Yeah, that was released last. That was released earlier this week.

361
00:24:35,098 --> 00:24:48,058
But like the 4X models, like it's it's it could be, you know, this is this is like Anthropica's probably cooking up version five that, you know, they're so, you know, Anthropical reassert a lead here soon.

362
00:24:48,058 --> 00:24:52,598
But even the open source models are, you know, Sam Altman, like complaining to the government.

363
00:24:52,698 --> 00:24:59,978
Apparently, I saw some news story that like they're distilling his models and like, you know, hey, you can't copy my copy machine.

364
00:24:59,978 --> 00:25:11,298
Right. Like, you know. And so I think that's really encouraging that it's becoming instead of having a winner take all runaway scenario,

365
00:25:11,298 --> 00:25:17,378
the natural like dynamics of the technology are making it extremely, extremely competitive.

366
00:25:17,378 --> 00:25:21,358
And it's maybe a race to the bottom in some sense.

367
00:25:21,658 --> 00:25:26,258
And any model that gets out there can kind of be copied, right?

368
00:25:26,438 --> 00:25:30,138
Like, you know, apparently, like according to Sam Altman, right?

369
00:25:30,718 --> 00:25:31,918
That's the state of the world right now.

370
00:25:31,978 --> 00:25:35,598
So that's one thing on, you know, being dominated by central parties.

371
00:25:35,638 --> 00:25:38,238
And the other thing is like, well, you know, you can just build it now.

372
00:25:38,958 --> 00:25:41,318
And I think that's really true.

373
00:25:41,318 --> 00:25:50,338
I mean, there's, you know, there's a risk of going too overboard because it's like, you know, we're not going to, you know, there's still a big role for expertise, right?

374
00:25:50,438 --> 00:25:57,058
Like, you know, you probably shouldn't go and start vibe coding Bitcoin core pull requests, you know, if you don't know anything about Bitcoin core.

375
00:25:57,358 --> 00:26:10,198
But at the same time, like if you've always wanted to understand Bitcoin core and you've never been a programmer before, but you're interested in Bitcoin, like you can fire up codex and cloud code, have it clone Bitcoin core and start trying to build stuff.

376
00:26:10,198 --> 00:26:14,598
And like, you're going to have the best education on how the Bitcoin software actually works.

377
00:26:15,098 --> 00:26:19,218
The nuts and bolts that was possible a couple of years ago.

378
00:26:19,298 --> 00:26:30,378
Like if you went to the Chaincode Labs residencies and stuff, you probably wouldn't get as good of an education as you would if you just locked yourself in a room for two weeks and tried to modify Bitcoin Core to do different things.

379
00:26:30,518 --> 00:26:33,938
Right. Like, you know, try changing the supply schedule.

380
00:26:33,938 --> 00:26:36,838
Right. Like try changing how the networking works.

381
00:26:36,838 --> 00:26:41,718
So try doing all kinds of different things and you'll learn a ton, have it give you tutorials.

382
00:26:43,178 --> 00:26:46,778
Like I want to do one live stream at some point where we spend one week.

383
00:26:47,538 --> 00:26:52,778
I keep saying I'm going to do this, but then I have better ideas where we do one week and we try to build Bitcoin core from scratch, like clone it.

384
00:26:53,198 --> 00:26:55,318
You know, if we start from the test suite, there's a test suite.

385
00:26:55,758 --> 00:26:57,858
And so we'll just be like, OK, which test is the easiest?

386
00:26:58,298 --> 00:26:59,258
Fast, right?

387
00:26:59,278 --> 00:27:01,718
Like maybe two nodes sending a greeting to each other.

388
00:27:02,358 --> 00:27:05,698
OK, now we're one of 300 tests or however many tests there are, right?

389
00:27:05,778 --> 00:27:06,818
And then just keep going.

390
00:27:06,838 --> 00:27:10,778
I think in a week it would be possible to pass much of that test suite.

391
00:27:10,778 --> 00:27:17,698
Probably not all of it, but like some of the core things you could pass and maybe you'd leave parts of the Bitcoin core code in there, like the live Bitcoin consensus.

392
00:27:17,698 --> 00:27:22,938
Right. The actual consensus engine. Or maybe you'd start with that and just slowly pull out pieces.

393
00:27:23,458 --> 00:27:34,918
So I think there's yeah, there's there. But, you know, on the other hand, it's like there's an there's a possibility to build, you know, like we've lived in a world where you sort of choose software off the shelf.

394
00:27:34,918 --> 00:27:38,518
right? You used to buy it and it showed up in a CD or you got it at Best Buy or something,

395
00:27:39,058 --> 00:27:44,738
right? And then now we move to a world where it's like you download it in an app store or you have,

396
00:27:44,978 --> 00:27:51,278
you know, you go to a SaaS website. And so it's in any case, it's choosing off the shelf,

397
00:27:51,498 --> 00:27:56,138
right? You're choosing software off the shelf and you're using software that wasn't made for you.

398
00:27:56,698 --> 00:28:00,638
And very few people have had the opportunity to build software directly for themselves. You had

399
00:28:00,638 --> 00:28:04,898
to be a programmer. And that's changing. Like, that's one of the things I think that's most

400
00:28:04,898 --> 00:28:10,018
exciting is that it's going to invert kind of how software is created. It's not, you don't start with

401
00:28:10,018 --> 00:28:13,758
a market, you start with yourself, and you build something for yourself, right? And so you've been

402
00:28:13,758 --> 00:28:19,538
experiencing this. And I can tell one fun anecdote that we did. This is probably the thing with HRF,

403
00:28:19,598 --> 00:28:24,738
the thing I've been most excited about here recently, is we did a hackathon. Alex mentioned,

404
00:28:24,918 --> 00:28:28,678
what do we think about a hackathon? And my initial, you know, doing a hackathon for AI,

405
00:28:28,678 --> 00:28:43,898
And my initial thing was like, that's a terrible idea. Hackathons stink. The ideas are bad and there's no distribution afterwards. No one ever uses them. And after thinking some more, I was like, wait, well, if we did something where we took the democracy, human rights activists that HRF supports, right?

406
00:28:43,898 --> 00:28:53,778
Like, you know, if you think of like student organizers at Tiananmen Square or like people who are trying to turn Venezuela into a freer society or, you know, places like that.

407
00:28:54,378 --> 00:29:00,558
What if we match one of those people up who has a lot of ideas, who has good who have good ideas, like real ideas, but they don't know how to do it.

408
00:29:00,598 --> 00:29:04,638
Right. Match those up with like the people who came to my meetup and bit devs for all these years.

409
00:29:04,998 --> 00:29:11,378
Right. So, you know, one of these activists with like three hardcore developers and the activist brings the idea.

410
00:29:11,378 --> 00:29:17,378
The developers build it. They teach kind of the activists how it works and they see the lifecycle of software creation.

411
00:29:17,678 --> 00:29:31,018
They get to see how software is made. And then afterwards, the activist tries to leverage their network to distribute it and to get the Freedom Tech tools out there with an existing audience instead of us trying to kind of create audiences.

412
00:29:31,858 --> 00:29:35,378
And so we did this hackathon and I was hoping like we got one or two cool projects.

413
00:29:35,378 --> 00:29:40,118
all eight of them are cool. Eight amazing projects. All the devs loved it because they

414
00:29:40,118 --> 00:29:43,658
got to work on something really concrete. And that's one of the big problems. If you've ever

415
00:29:43,658 --> 00:29:48,858
gotten one of these open source grants in our system, our ecosystem, it's often you don't

416
00:29:48,858 --> 00:29:53,498
really have a clear optimization loop. You don't know if you're winning or not. And that's one of

417
00:29:53,498 --> 00:29:57,438
the hardest things to succeed is an open source dev in Bitcoin. It's like you need to bring that

418
00:29:57,438 --> 00:30:02,698
yourself. It needs to be in your own psychology. And so I don't know, we mentioned Callie. That's

419
00:30:02,698 --> 00:30:06,118
something I think he's really good at. He has a North Star in his head of what is good or not,

420
00:30:06,178 --> 00:30:10,018
right? And like some of the really successful Bitcoin core developers probably who are able to

421
00:30:10,018 --> 00:30:16,778
put up with years of pain, they have a North Star. But most people don't have that. And so many

422
00:30:16,778 --> 00:30:20,798
people fail when they get a grant. And so a lot of the devs were like, this is really awesome.

423
00:30:21,698 --> 00:30:25,418
I basically just get to see what's working. You show me what's working, what isn't.

424
00:30:25,998 --> 00:30:30,398
And then, you know, the activists were obviously very interested, very happy because they got to

425
00:30:30,398 --> 00:30:34,538
see what's possible now. And they actually had to build something and now their communities are

426
00:30:34,538 --> 00:30:40,618
using it in some cases. So this is really exciting and we'll see more announcements about like what's

427
00:30:40,618 --> 00:30:47,218
actually getting built here. That's just a great example of how new things are possible.

428
00:30:47,978 --> 00:30:52,298
Where you start with somebody who has a problem and you get, you know, either them or with the

429
00:30:52,298 --> 00:30:56,378
help of like one or two people over a weekend, they can make something happen. Building on

430
00:30:56,378 --> 00:30:59,298
those projects. I think that's one question that most people have.

431
00:31:00,058 --> 00:31:03,538
And I did too. Like last year, like, you know, like when we were back in Austin,

432
00:31:03,618 --> 00:31:07,198
I was vibe coding the Chrome extension. It's crazy to think how far things have come

433
00:31:07,198 --> 00:31:11,738
into them. And that's like been the number one question I've been getting. I've been setting up my brother, my cousin.

434
00:31:13,318 --> 00:31:15,958
I was the first one to 1031 test this stuff out.

435
00:31:15,958 --> 00:31:20,578
And they were like, oh, is it like really is really worth it? Like, what do you do?

436
00:31:20,798 --> 00:31:24,118
Like, what value does it provide you for OpenClaw specifically?

437
00:31:24,118 --> 00:31:26,878
And I was like, guys, you just got to download it and try it for yourself.

438
00:31:26,878 --> 00:31:41,018
And so in terms of how you would advise any curious individual listening to this or out there who may have just apprehensions to dive in because they're not technically competent or don't know what they would do with it.

439
00:31:41,078 --> 00:31:44,178
Like, what is the zero to one step they should take?

440
00:31:44,218 --> 00:31:45,638
And then how do they use this?

441
00:31:45,658 --> 00:31:53,738
Because I think that's the most important thing I've learned using OpenClaw specifically over the last month is like you need to really focus on.

442
00:31:53,738 --> 00:31:56,218
setting up the backend, the memory system,

443
00:31:56,838 --> 00:31:59,738
feeding a context, giving it skills

444
00:31:59,738 --> 00:32:02,038
and markdown files to pull from

445
00:32:02,038 --> 00:32:03,658
to really get the most out of it.

446
00:32:04,818 --> 00:32:06,938
I mean, so I felt the same way, but like a year ago,

447
00:32:07,018 --> 00:32:08,058
and I still feel the same way.

448
00:32:08,098 --> 00:32:09,758
Like I'm still an open claw noob.

449
00:32:10,158 --> 00:32:11,318
I've barely used it.

450
00:32:11,718 --> 00:32:12,938
I've mostly just hacked on it.

451
00:32:12,998 --> 00:32:15,018
I've spent a lot, like I know how it works

452
00:32:15,018 --> 00:32:16,898
on a very detailed level,

453
00:32:17,298 --> 00:32:18,418
but I haven't actually gotten,

454
00:32:18,918 --> 00:32:21,238
I've gotten, I could say zero value out of it so far

455
00:32:21,238 --> 00:32:22,478
just because I haven't really tried yet

456
00:32:22,478 --> 00:32:24,538
because I get nerd sniped on stuff.

457
00:32:25,558 --> 00:32:28,118
But yeah, so I always felt like, I don't know,

458
00:32:28,198 --> 00:32:30,098
I have, you know, Cody Lowe is like a friend of mine

459
00:32:30,098 --> 00:32:31,658
who just always jumps on the newest thing.

460
00:32:32,238 --> 00:32:34,138
And I'm a little more conservative.

461
00:32:34,298 --> 00:32:35,338
Like I'm not an early adopter.

462
00:32:35,398 --> 00:32:37,198
I'm like that second wave of adoption, you know,

463
00:32:37,238 --> 00:32:38,698
and like the famous graph.

464
00:32:39,138 --> 00:32:40,478
So I'm always like a hater at the beginning.

465
00:32:40,658 --> 00:32:42,258
Like I was joking, I think maybe with you

466
00:32:42,258 --> 00:32:44,018
at some event once where I'm like, yeah, I'm just a hater.

467
00:32:44,118 --> 00:32:46,258
Like when I heard of Bitcoin, I hated it for a couple of years.

468
00:32:46,518 --> 00:32:48,698
Same with Lightning, same with Nostra,

469
00:32:48,878 --> 00:32:49,458
and same with AI.

470
00:32:49,458 --> 00:32:52,098
Like every time I say, I kind of make fun of it for a few years.

471
00:32:52,478 --> 00:32:56,478
And then at some point, there's something that totally destroys my preconceptions of what it was.

472
00:32:57,138 --> 00:33:03,318
Like, you know, for Bitcoin, it was somebody started gambling on it that I would never expect to do.

473
00:33:03,318 --> 00:33:08,298
And so I was like, oh, so this could go mainstream via speculation.

474
00:33:08,678 --> 00:33:11,458
Oh, OK, this is not just like a thing for nerds.

475
00:33:11,558 --> 00:33:17,398
Right. And with Lightning, it was like seeing e-cash and being like, OK, so you don't need to run a note on your phone.

476
00:33:17,718 --> 00:33:21,118
Right. Like there's like a nice middle ground that is totally doable right now.

477
00:33:21,118 --> 00:33:23,238
and you can get really good privacy.

478
00:33:24,098 --> 00:33:25,898
There's other, you know, in Nostra,

479
00:33:26,058 --> 00:33:28,798
it was kind of going to these sovereign engineering things.

480
00:33:28,878 --> 00:33:30,518
I don't think I quite got it after the first one,

481
00:33:30,578 --> 00:33:33,158
but 12 weeks with Gigi and Pablo did it for me.

482
00:33:33,878 --> 00:33:36,258
And AI was just like seeing, you know, vibe coding.

483
00:33:36,678 --> 00:33:38,818
But it took a while with AI to get it.

484
00:33:39,098 --> 00:33:40,778
Like, you know, a new thing would always happen.

485
00:33:40,878 --> 00:33:42,038
I would be very resistant to it.

486
00:33:42,098 --> 00:33:44,698
I remember Anthony Ronning was telling me for like a week

487
00:33:44,698 --> 00:33:46,438
that are two weeks last, like a year ago,

488
00:33:46,518 --> 00:33:47,558
that I had to try cloud code.

489
00:33:47,558 --> 00:33:49,918
And I'm just like, no, it just sounds like difficult

490
00:33:49,918 --> 00:33:50,858
and it sounds painful.

491
00:33:51,118 --> 00:33:56,358
and I don't want to change my habits. So I think that's what everyone is. And for me,

492
00:33:56,418 --> 00:33:59,878
the thing that got helped me to get around that was to just not take it seriously at all.

493
00:34:00,058 --> 00:34:05,158
Like, just be like, I'm just going to F around here a little bit. And I'm not even going to try

494
00:34:05,158 --> 00:34:09,158
to have a good time. I'm not even going to try to be productive. Like, I'm going to just play with

495
00:34:09,158 --> 00:34:13,318
it. Like, I'm a kid in a sandbox. You know, I'm going to get my hands dirty and just kind of have

496
00:34:13,318 --> 00:34:19,178
fun. And I don't know, treat it like, treat, I kind of think it's like, I don't know, like,

497
00:34:19,178 --> 00:34:23,198
treat the tool like you're an anthropologist studying like a lost tribe.

498
00:34:23,638 --> 00:34:26,998
It's like, okay, so how does it communicate?

499
00:34:27,198 --> 00:34:28,038
Or like, what can it do?

500
00:34:28,098 --> 00:34:28,798
What can't it do?

501
00:34:28,918 --> 00:34:30,398
Like, does it know the number zero, right?

502
00:34:30,478 --> 00:34:31,138
Like, does it know?

503
00:34:31,418 --> 00:34:32,998
Have they found the wheel yet?

504
00:34:33,118 --> 00:34:37,758
You know, like, just sort of play with it on that level as like an anthropologist would

505
00:34:37,758 --> 00:34:40,718
and try to build a mental model of what it can do.

506
00:34:40,778 --> 00:34:41,738
Like, find the line.

507
00:34:41,738 --> 00:34:44,318
If you can find the line between what it can do and what it can't do.

508
00:34:44,318 --> 00:34:59,778
And then if you can figure out why, and then if you can eventually get it to cross that line by tweaking something, it's like now, now, now that's kind of peak performance, right? Like that's what, that's what, so if you do that, then almost accidentally you'll start to be productive. Right.

509
00:34:59,778 --> 00:35:04,938
Um, and so that, that's kind of what I would encourage people to do is if you're struggling

510
00:35:04,938 --> 00:35:07,858
with it, like just stop taking it so seriously.

511
00:35:07,998 --> 00:35:09,998
Don't, don't, you know, you can't be scared.

512
00:35:10,098 --> 00:35:13,838
You're going to lose your job or you're going to, you're going to, you can't, you got to

513
00:35:13,838 --> 00:35:15,438
get fear out of the equation, I think.

514
00:35:15,738 --> 00:35:18,858
Um, and, and, or just have fun with it.

515
00:35:18,858 --> 00:35:22,518
Just, you know, uh, you know, just, just embrace the fear or something, right?

516
00:35:22,518 --> 00:35:24,418
You can't, you can't let the fear dominate you.

517
00:35:24,458 --> 00:35:26,538
Cause I think, or, you know, cause it's, it's a new thing.

518
00:35:26,538 --> 00:35:28,338
It's like encountering an alien kind of, right?

519
00:35:28,338 --> 00:35:30,338
Like it is, it is kind of scary, right?

520
00:35:30,338 --> 00:35:31,238
And it's uncomfortable.

521
00:35:32,038 --> 00:35:34,918
And so, yeah, I think you just gotta,

522
00:35:35,018 --> 00:35:36,258
you gotta find a way to get over that.

523
00:35:36,458 --> 00:35:38,458
And, and then, you know, when you play with it,

524
00:35:38,498 --> 00:35:40,578
try not to give it like your social security number,

525
00:35:40,838 --> 00:35:42,138
try not to give it all your credit cards,

526
00:35:42,138 --> 00:35:46,638
try not to, you know, give it your email or something,

527
00:35:46,758 --> 00:35:48,558
but maybe give it its own email, give it its own,

528
00:35:48,998 --> 00:35:50,498
you know, maybe, maybe give it a,

529
00:35:50,658 --> 00:35:51,758
if you want it to buy stuff,

530
00:35:51,778 --> 00:35:53,998
like go sign up for like privacy.com or something

531
00:35:53,998 --> 00:35:56,118
and make like a one-off card and give it that

532
00:35:56,118 --> 00:35:57,898
and put 50 bucks on it, you know?

533
00:35:57,898 --> 00:36:09,018
And like just find ways where you can experiment where like the blast rate, like picture what the maximal blast radius is and whether you'd be OK with that level of explosion.

534
00:36:09,018 --> 00:36:13,258
Right. And so, yeah, a big part of that is education. Right.

535
00:36:13,338 --> 00:36:17,538
Like and that's one thing I'm going to try to do more like that's actually how I got into Bitcoin is teaching people about it.

536
00:36:18,178 --> 00:36:21,018
And and I've been doing that kind of steadily this whole time.

537
00:36:21,018 --> 00:36:25,258
And so I think it's really important to have mental models on like what's actually happening.

538
00:36:25,258 --> 00:36:29,058
like you know you don't have to understand all the details or look at the code or like

539
00:36:29,058 --> 00:36:34,958
but like when you talk about what a skill is like what is an ai skill like you know if if that just

540
00:36:34,958 --> 00:36:40,698
is a word to you you're not it's going to impair your ability to do stuff like you have to have some

541
00:36:40,698 --> 00:36:46,638
mental model of what that actually means and so like we did it i just did a podcast with preston

542
00:36:46,638 --> 00:36:52,738
like a couple days ago and we tried to explain what cloud code is uh or what excuse me uh open

543
00:36:52,738 --> 00:36:57,698
claw is if you had, you know, assuming no knowledge of AI at all, like just from scratch.

544
00:36:58,578 --> 00:37:03,158
And so like, I want to do more stuff like that because it's kind of, it's, you know, I think a

545
00:37:03,158 --> 00:37:06,778
lot of people, like when I started teaching stuff in Bitcoin, I was trying to teach people how to

546
00:37:06,778 --> 00:37:10,938
like integrate with the protocol as developers. And what happened is the people who were most

547
00:37:10,938 --> 00:37:15,998
interested were actually the plebs who weren't a developer who just wanted to understand basically

548
00:37:15,998 --> 00:37:20,458
their investment more, you know, they're like, I, I trust my life with this thing. It would be

549
00:37:20,458 --> 00:37:25,978
really nice if I understood it better. Right. And so, and they were very empowered, right? Like,

550
00:37:26,178 --> 00:37:29,378
you know, we did a little, one of the things I did in my class is like seven years ago was like,

551
00:37:29,418 --> 00:37:33,478
we built like a little mini version of Bitcoin and like a small computer program you could run

552
00:37:33,478 --> 00:37:38,178
on your thing. And we'd add each feature one by one, like difficulty adjustment. And so after you

553
00:37:38,178 --> 00:37:42,598
did that, you had like a framework of what is actually happening in Bitcoin core that you didn't

554
00:37:42,598 --> 00:37:47,598
previously. And so, yeah, I think I want to do more stuff like that to help people understand

555
00:37:47,598 --> 00:37:52,038
the building blocks and just have mental models. And then so when you're setting up your open claw

556
00:37:52,038 --> 00:37:56,258
and it's like, you got to think about, well, do I give it my phone number? Do I give it its own

557
00:37:56,258 --> 00:37:59,678
phone number? Like you can kind of understand what the trade-offs are because you can't,

558
00:38:00,638 --> 00:38:04,038
you know, if you just read a manual and with recommendations and you don't understand what

559
00:38:04,038 --> 00:38:08,658
they actually mean, you kind of can't make informed decisions, right? So I think education

560
00:38:08,658 --> 00:38:13,878
is really important part of it because without a little education, you can't make informed

561
00:38:13,878 --> 00:38:19,158
decisions yeah yeah i like the way you describe the sandbox the act like an anthropologist that's

562
00:38:19,158 --> 00:38:23,558
how i've been describing it to people and like just download it yeah then spend the time to map the

563
00:38:23,558 --> 00:38:28,438
territory that's how i've been explaining it yeah like you this is and get reps in like that's one

564
00:38:28,438 --> 00:38:32,278
thing i am glad i did it's like you know the sovereign it was almost by accident it was like

565
00:38:32,278 --> 00:38:35,718
i was trying to learn to enjoy programming and went to sovereign engineering paul miller showed

566
00:38:35,718 --> 00:38:40,678
us cursor on the first day and we're all like what the hell is that right and so the the first one the

567
00:38:40,678 --> 00:38:42,918
the whole thing was us trying all these like bi-coding tools.

568
00:38:43,698 --> 00:38:45,558
And, you know, I just got reps in, like I said,

569
00:38:45,598 --> 00:38:46,838
I've done like three or 400 projects

570
00:38:46,838 --> 00:38:48,258
without trying to be productive.

571
00:38:48,918 --> 00:38:51,318
And that's been, I think, very empowering

572
00:38:51,318 --> 00:38:55,958
because now I think I've gotten really good at this

573
00:38:55,958 --> 00:38:57,778
just because I've done it so much.

574
00:38:58,318 --> 00:38:59,318
And so, you know, I don't, you know,

575
00:38:59,338 --> 00:39:00,138
if you're a busy person,

576
00:39:00,158 --> 00:39:01,618
you don't have to do three or 400 projects,

577
00:39:01,618 --> 00:39:05,878
but like, don't try to install Cloud or OpenClaw

578
00:39:05,878 --> 00:39:07,958
and expect it to run your business on day one.

579
00:39:08,458 --> 00:39:10,238
Like if you get to maybe find some annoying thing

580
00:39:10,238 --> 00:39:14,798
that is not getting done that could be done and if it fails it doesn't matter but if it succeeds it

581
00:39:14,798 --> 00:39:18,878
would be kind of cool and you'd use it that's another thing it's like if you can build things

582
00:39:18,878 --> 00:39:25,358
that like that's why open claw is cool because uh you can it's it's a lot easier to get a little

583
00:39:25,358 --> 00:39:29,918
benefit from your in your own life like a little tiny thing uh like so i have like my little personal

584
00:39:29,918 --> 00:39:33,998
note-taking app that i've been had for like five or six seven years and so that's the only thing

585
00:39:33,998 --> 00:39:39,918
i've had my open claw do is it can talk to my notes uh and that's valuable uh and so now that's

586
00:39:39,918 --> 00:39:41,318
That's what gets me back into it.

587
00:39:41,758 --> 00:39:43,138
So if you can find like a little,

588
00:39:43,318 --> 00:39:45,958
a little tiny little thing like that,

589
00:39:46,438 --> 00:39:47,798
that makes it somewhat useful,

590
00:39:47,798 --> 00:39:49,798
then you get like a feedback loop going

591
00:39:49,798 --> 00:39:50,918
where you're like, okay, well,

592
00:39:51,918 --> 00:39:53,538
its personality is starting to piss me off.

593
00:39:53,578 --> 00:39:55,718
How do I, you know, stop being so positive

594
00:39:55,718 --> 00:39:57,698
or, you know, something like that, right?

595
00:39:57,718 --> 00:39:59,338
And then you start tweaking it

596
00:39:59,338 --> 00:40:00,258
and then you're off to the races.

597
00:40:00,798 --> 00:40:00,938
Yeah.

598
00:40:01,378 --> 00:40:02,618
I think the first thing for me

599
00:40:02,618 --> 00:40:05,858
in a TFTC was decks,

600
00:40:05,858 --> 00:40:07,158
like decks for advertisers.

601
00:40:07,438 --> 00:40:08,998
We had doing like a couple,

602
00:40:08,998 --> 00:40:14,818
of deals and a couple of the advertisers were adamant about me getting them a media kit and

603
00:40:14,818 --> 00:40:18,978
deck and it's always been the bane of my existence i've used like google presentation

604
00:40:18,978 --> 00:40:24,178
um there are google slides to make them they always look terrible i'm always embarrassed

605
00:40:24,178 --> 00:40:29,778
handing them over yeah it's a very small operation here don't have any designers or marketing people

606
00:40:29,778 --> 00:40:33,438
and I was able to spin up OpenClaw

607
00:40:33,438 --> 00:40:38,178
basically gave it a very long

608
00:40:38,178 --> 00:40:41,958
prompt in the beginning telling it about the business, what we do

609
00:40:41,958 --> 00:40:46,458
all the properties we have, gave it access to a read-only

610
00:40:46,458 --> 00:40:50,378
YouTube API key, has access to our RSS feeds

611
00:40:50,378 --> 00:40:54,218
has access to a third-party Twitter API where it can find people

612
00:40:54,218 --> 00:40:58,618
talking about us. I was like, okay, here's the advertiser. Here's what they're looking to buy

613
00:40:58,618 --> 00:41:00,578
like make a deck

614
00:41:00,578 --> 00:41:02,798
pumping the brand, showing the growth

615
00:41:02,798 --> 00:41:05,038
of our properties over the last

616
00:41:05,038 --> 00:41:05,818
five years

617
00:41:05,818 --> 00:41:08,518
getting reviews from fans

618
00:41:08,518 --> 00:41:10,758
like literally was in bed at 1am one night

619
00:41:10,758 --> 00:41:12,838
typing this into Telegram and

620
00:41:12,838 --> 00:41:15,038
three minutes later it had the best looking deck that we've

621
00:41:15,038 --> 00:41:16,258
ever set out at TFT.

622
00:41:16,258 --> 00:41:16,438
Yeah.

623
00:41:17,878 --> 00:41:20,198
I do think that one of the

624
00:41:20,198 --> 00:41:21,578
moves, it's like

625
00:41:21,578 --> 00:41:22,898
how

626
00:41:22,898 --> 00:41:26,178
to move forward

627
00:41:26,178 --> 00:41:28,178
here, you kind of have two options

628
00:41:28,178 --> 00:41:32,778
is like you either embrace the hell out of it and like make your kind of

629
00:41:32,778 --> 00:41:47,716
professional goal to get really good at AI Like that gonna be I think I think there a good chance where that like one of the best things you can do Um or like go buy some property in rural Idaho and learn to subsistence

630
00:41:47,716 --> 00:41:52,236
farm. Like those are the two, you know, that's subsistence farm necessarily, but like, you know,

631
00:41:52,656 --> 00:41:57,636
uh, you know, those are the, those are two good calls or like become a plumber, right? Like become

632
00:41:57,636 --> 00:42:03,236
even that though, I don't know, like there's going to be plumbing robots, uh, soon. So like,

633
00:42:03,236 --> 00:42:22,476
I don't know. It's kind of an uncomfortable thing, but those are two directions that make a lot of sense to me. And yeah, I think that any investment you do getting good at AI is going to pay off a lot in the near future.

634
00:42:22,476 --> 00:42:26,336
What's up freaks? When you take Bitcoin seriously, you start with custody. You want to control your

635
00:42:26,336 --> 00:42:30,076
keys, avoid single points of failure, and make sure your savings cannot disappear because you

636
00:42:30,076 --> 00:42:34,396
or someone else screwed up. That is what Unchained has been focused on since 2016. Unchained is the

637
00:42:34,396 --> 00:42:38,116
leader in collaborative multi-sig custody and Bitcoin financial services that keep you in

638
00:42:38,116 --> 00:42:42,056
control. They secure over $12 billion in Bitcoin for more than 12,000 clients.

639
00:42:42,416 --> 00:42:45,976
That means about one out of every 200 Bitcoin sits inside an Unchained vault.

640
00:42:45,976 --> 00:42:50,096
Their model is simple. You hold two keys, they hold one key. It always takes two keys to move

641
00:42:50,096 --> 00:42:53,996
Bitcoin, meaning their single key can't access your Bitcoin on its own. Just resilient, shared

642
00:42:53,996 --> 00:42:58,036
custody that gives you institutional-grade security while keeping you sovereign. Unchain also lets you

643
00:42:58,036 --> 00:43:02,116
trade straight from your vault, access Bitcoin-backed commercial loans, open a Bitcoin IRA where you

644
00:43:02,116 --> 00:43:06,376
hold your own keys, and set up personal, business, trust, or retirement vaults. They even offer

645
00:43:06,376 --> 00:43:11,176
inheritance solutions built for long-term hodlers. Or opt for the highest-level private client service

646
00:43:11,176 --> 00:43:15,316
with Unchain's signature and get a dedicated account manager, discounted trading fees, exclusive

647
00:43:15,316 --> 00:43:19,736
access to events and features, and much, much more. If you want a partner that helps you secure and

648
00:43:19,736 --> 00:43:24,316
grow your Bitcoin without giving up control, go to unchained.com and use the code TFTC10

649
00:43:24,316 --> 00:43:29,996
at checkout to get 10% off your new Bitcoin multisig vault. That's TFTC10 at unchained.com.

650
00:43:30,156 --> 00:43:33,656
Sup freaks? This rip was brought to you by our good friends at Salt of the Earth.

651
00:43:35,996 --> 00:43:41,316
It's so delicious. This is my pink lemonade electrolyte mix. It's pink Himalayan salt.

652
00:43:41,316 --> 00:43:49,536
There's no sugar. It's way better than LMNT liquid IV. I went through a big electrolyte

653
00:43:49,536 --> 00:43:54,576
kick, testing them all out, and I landed on this, settled on this, been drinking it pretty

654
00:43:54,576 --> 00:43:56,336
consistently every day for two years now.

655
00:43:56,956 --> 00:43:57,616
It is my favorite.

656
00:43:57,816 --> 00:43:58,736
This is the pink lemonade.

657
00:43:59,496 --> 00:44:01,336
They have orange here.

658
00:44:01,976 --> 00:44:03,396
As you can see, this one's ripped.

659
00:44:03,596 --> 00:44:06,136
I had this on the train ride back from New York last night.

660
00:44:06,676 --> 00:44:07,836
I'm always stocked up with these things.

661
00:44:07,916 --> 00:44:09,036
They also have creatine packets.

662
00:44:09,136 --> 00:44:12,036
Very convenient, particularly if you're traveling and you like to work out.

663
00:44:12,336 --> 00:44:13,796
You can like get those brain juices flowing.

664
00:44:13,796 --> 00:44:15,516
They have these creatine packets as well.

665
00:44:16,236 --> 00:44:18,756
They're about to launch a bunch more flavors.

666
00:44:18,756 --> 00:44:26,436
lemon lime uh watermelon and and a few others as well um so go check it out go to drink saute

667
00:44:26,436 --> 00:44:34,836
d-r-i-n-k-s-o-t-e.com use the code tftc for 15 off seriously game changer in our house my wife

668
00:44:34,836 --> 00:44:40,616
drinks it i drink it our boys drink it stay hydrated it's a beautiful thing well the reason

669
00:44:40,616 --> 00:44:44,436
we're sitting here today is because you called me yesterday you got the itch you're very passionate

670
00:44:44,436 --> 00:44:45,616
You're going to start the live streams.

671
00:44:45,796 --> 00:44:55,436
But one thing you said during our phone call yesterday, I think you mentioned that you listened to Peter Steinberger, the founder of OpenClaw, on one of the podcasts.

672
00:44:55,556 --> 00:44:56,596
I don't know if it was Lex or whatever.

673
00:44:56,916 --> 00:45:05,836
But observing him hit the media scene over the last two weeks has been interesting because he seems like a very passionate open source developer specifically.

674
00:45:06,076 --> 00:45:09,296
He's very passionate about keeping OpenClaw open source.

675
00:45:09,296 --> 00:45:19,816
So that was one thing that we were discussing yesterday is like Bitcoin and freedom tech people really need to begin to bridge the gap between what these AI people are working on.

676
00:45:20,016 --> 00:45:22,796
Because when combined, they can be extremely powerful.

677
00:45:23,736 --> 00:45:23,796
Yeah.

678
00:45:23,876 --> 00:45:28,296
I mean, I have one thing that pisses me off about the OpenStar ecosystem.

679
00:45:29,196 --> 00:45:31,916
It's like I think we pat ourselves on the back too much, way too much.

680
00:45:32,036 --> 00:45:33,256
And we're assuming we're going to.

681
00:45:34,336 --> 00:45:36,996
We think oftentimes think we're doing a better job than we are.

682
00:45:36,996 --> 00:46:03,996
And, uh, like if I'm speaking realistically, it's like, we're not breaking into the mainstream at all with our ideas. Really. We're like in an echo chamber and like every once in a while we can peel off individuals who will start saving in Bitcoin or things like that. But I think we're just not doing, we're losing, we're, I think we're losing. We're not like, we're not, uh, we're not, um, we're not getting our message out well enough and we're not winning in the market as much. Right.

683
00:46:03,996 --> 00:46:11,816
Like, you know, Nick Carter, I think has a good point where he's like, well, everyone's using stable coins now, you know, the train left and for medium of exchange.

684
00:46:11,816 --> 00:46:15,296
And it's like, yeah, that's true. And I think we should think about that a little more.

685
00:46:16,156 --> 00:46:26,556
And maybe it was destined to happen. But like, you know, I think in some sense, maybe it was because it's just like not having to calculate the not having to deal with the price fluctuations is really nice.

686
00:46:26,556 --> 00:46:30,236
But there's some of these things I think we should be more introspective about.

687
00:46:30,716 --> 00:46:42,156
And, you know, it's much healthier to, I think, to think that we're failing and try to not fail than to think that we're succeeding and forget to not, you know, to be a little paranoid.

688
00:46:42,716 --> 00:46:44,376
So that's kind of what I think.

689
00:46:44,376 --> 00:47:02,436
And, you know, I think that we have a lot of really good values in our this little ecosystem we have, you know, like towards, you know, individual freedom and, you know, being in control of your trying to help people be in control of their lives.

690
00:47:02,436 --> 00:47:09,756
Right. Like to not be a slave to the modern industrial system and, you know, to the to the people.

691
00:47:09,756 --> 00:47:13,976
I won't use the effort that I would like to the people who control the money, you know.

692
00:47:16,376 --> 00:47:20,116
And I think we've done like there's a lot of really good values we have.

693
00:47:20,236 --> 00:47:25,576
They're kind of like Ron Paul, you know, like we're like our community is like a community version of Ron Paul.

694
00:47:25,756 --> 00:47:30,956
And I think we're right on a lot of things. But like Ron Paul never really made it happen.

695
00:47:31,096 --> 00:47:33,716
Right. You know, the Fed's still there.

696
00:47:33,716 --> 00:47:41,636
um so i i think yeah i think we should really try to get our ideas out there like much harder than

697
00:47:41,636 --> 00:47:45,056
we can and so that's kind of what i've decided because i think we all need to think about it's

698
00:47:45,056 --> 00:47:51,596
like okay um like let's say well let's say a lot of the white collar work that many of us do gets

699
00:47:51,596 --> 00:47:56,716
automated and much of the blue collar work that some of us do right like i hope to god no uh

700
00:47:57,876 --> 00:48:03,416
uh uh backhoe can replace stony bitson for example but maybe maybe that's coming right

701
00:48:03,416 --> 00:48:10,356
um uh so you know yeah i think you got to think about like okay so like if a lot of the things

702
00:48:10,356 --> 00:48:14,616
that i used to define myself on like professionally or whatever how i used to bring home the bacon

703
00:48:14,616 --> 00:48:19,396
gets replaced it's like you got to think about like what are you uniquely like what do you have

704
00:48:19,396 --> 00:48:25,416
to add that is like specifically you like what is and like what you know it's like it's like

705
00:48:25,416 --> 00:48:31,456
rooted in your actual humanity not like some uh thing you learned from a book right and so for me

706
00:48:31,456 --> 00:48:36,256
I think it's like I really like teaching people and building communities and stuff like that.

707
00:48:36,296 --> 00:48:37,836
I did that with this class I did years ago.

708
00:48:37,836 --> 00:48:42,336
I did that with BitDevs and I did that with the Vediment Developer Community.

709
00:48:43,056 --> 00:48:44,596
And so that's kind of what I want to get back.

710
00:48:44,736 --> 00:48:46,536
For me personally, that's what I kind of decided.

711
00:48:46,656 --> 00:48:51,616
It's like, OK, I want to do that and then just try to really blast our ideas out there,

712
00:48:51,796 --> 00:48:58,016
like build really cool stuff in public, like this Marmot thing I'm making or like, you know.

713
00:48:58,016 --> 00:49:21,756
So the next one is once I get this video streaming, when I get this, you know, mobile app working, I want to make help us get like the actual proper discord replacement, because that's what we need. Like, I'd like to have a discord for this. And but I don't want to use discord. Right. And so we have one called flotilla, which works well in some ways, but it doesn't have calling and like calling was the thing that made discord blow up. Right. Like people would just get in those voice calls and, and just like hang out while they're playing video games.

714
00:49:21,756 --> 00:49:27,596
and so kind of i just want to go through one by one of these these things that i i want to make

715
00:49:27,596 --> 00:49:31,156
and i want to build them in public and i want to have people in there with me i want to show people

716
00:49:31,156 --> 00:49:34,976
how to make pull requests and you know like what next week i'm going to do one with parker lewis

717
00:49:34,976 --> 00:49:39,056
where we're going to he has this idea for a butcher shop he wants to do uh with his software

718
00:49:39,056 --> 00:49:43,256
component and so i'm like he was working on it in a spreadsheet i'm like you want to come on the

719
00:49:43,256 --> 00:49:47,556
live stream and build your butcher shop app you know and so we're going to try stuff like that

720
00:49:47,556 --> 00:49:57,716
Right. And if anybody else has like these sorts of ideas where it's like, hey, this is a cool thing I've always wanted to do, but I don't think I have the either the skills or the confidence to do it.

721
00:49:57,736 --> 00:50:03,716
Like. I want to figure out some way where they can basically book it. Right. And so I have like a way like, hey, next Thursday is open.

722
00:50:03,836 --> 00:50:08,916
I'm going to take the best submission and, you know, it's going to be a full day of, you know, making it happen.

723
00:50:09,576 --> 00:50:15,956
So that's kind of my. So with an education component, but then also like I'm going to ship these apps, I'm going to ship all this.

724
00:50:15,956 --> 00:50:21,676
And I'm going to try to make it usable for normal people who don't have like an ideological reason to use it.

725
00:50:22,656 --> 00:50:28,536
You know, I wanted to like, let's say so in a month, Discord is going to start scanning faces and IDs to use it.

726
00:50:28,836 --> 00:50:35,416
Yeah. Right. Right now, they're not going to know it's going to be switching to Nostra, quite frankly.

727
00:50:36,116 --> 00:50:42,516
How do we get it? So they do. Right. Like with this, you know, with kind of an urgency there.

728
00:50:42,516 --> 00:50:50,396
Right. Like we need to find ways where like when these opportunities come up, we get self-organized and make that happen and be ruthless about it.

729
00:50:50,396 --> 00:50:53,996
Right. Like that's kind of what I the thing I want to see happen.

730
00:50:53,996 --> 00:50:59,536
Yeah. Well, leaning into this bridging between the Bitcoin and Freedom Tech world, which I agree is in a bubble.

731
00:50:59,896 --> 00:51:05,616
And I agree. We think we're doing way better than we actually are bridging.

732
00:51:05,616 --> 00:51:11,136
what we're doing with this explosion of capabilities coming out of AI.

733
00:51:11,376 --> 00:51:12,676
Again, going back to OpenClaw.

734
00:51:13,576 --> 00:51:19,536
Peter Steinberger, specifically, I watched a whole Friedman rip that he did,

735
00:51:19,576 --> 00:51:21,636
but I caught a clip where they were talking about

736
00:51:21,636 --> 00:51:26,896
just as soon as OpenClaw started with ClawedBot,

737
00:51:27,076 --> 00:51:29,376
somebody spun up a ClawedBot meme coin,

738
00:51:29,376 --> 00:51:33,636
then it went to MoltBot, they spun up and ultimately landed on OpenClaw.

739
00:51:33,636 --> 00:51:42,676
meme coin came then in all the crypto bros sort of uh completely just turn off um peter steinberger

740
00:51:42,676 --> 00:51:49,316
specifically i'm sure many others on top of that and i think that we've talked about this um

741
00:51:49,316 --> 00:51:53,796
throughout the years like that's an uphill battle that we face as bitcoiners is separating ourselves

742
00:51:53,796 --> 00:51:59,956
from those degenerates but then also we have our own problems as well it can be too ideological at

743
00:51:59,956 --> 00:52:06,956
times and let perfect be the enemy of good enough. And so like, just diving into like your view of

744
00:52:06,956 --> 00:52:13,096
like the correct tact to take when trying to present the solutions that you think are worthwhile

745
00:52:13,096 --> 00:52:17,916
in terms of trying to bring them to the world and implementing them at scale.

746
00:52:18,976 --> 00:52:24,256
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it is where nobody cares how a problem is solved. They care that the

747
00:52:24,256 --> 00:52:30,176
problem solved, right? And so, you know, like, I know, BitChat's a good example, right? Like,

748
00:52:30,196 --> 00:52:33,236
Callie's been killing it. He's been, he's one of the few of us that I think is actually,

749
00:52:34,836 --> 00:52:38,856
I mean, I think he could do a lot better too. And I'm sure he would agree, like he's

750
00:52:38,856 --> 00:52:40,936
continually trying to prove, but he's been able to bridge this gap.

751
00:52:42,316 --> 00:52:45,156
And so with like, BitChat was an interesting example where it's like,

752
00:52:45,696 --> 00:52:50,016
you know, there's insects in there. Nobody knows there's insects in there. They don't know what an

753
00:52:50,016 --> 00:52:56,116
NSEC is, right? They don't care about peer-to-peer networking and Bluetooth meshes and

754
00:52:56,116 --> 00:52:59,456
shit like that. They care about being able to self-organize when the internet's off,

755
00:53:00,276 --> 00:53:06,576
you know? And so that's a way, I mean, I don't think it was initially conceived this way,

756
00:53:06,696 --> 00:53:12,236
but I think it succeeded this way where it solves a problem for people and the people who have the

757
00:53:12,236 --> 00:53:17,296
problem solved don't care how. And that's always the case, right? You know, like, you know,

758
00:53:17,296 --> 00:53:20,736
People like Bitcoin because it preserves their purchasing power, right?

759
00:53:20,796 --> 00:53:23,296
Or allows them to transact internationally where they couldn't.

760
00:53:23,736 --> 00:53:29,796
They don't care about, they care about how the supply schedule only afterwards, really, you know.

761
00:53:30,796 --> 00:53:31,916
Or, you know what I mean?

762
00:53:32,016 --> 00:53:35,156
Like, it's, people don't, most people don't care about how.

763
00:53:35,656 --> 00:53:46,896
And so I think we kind of get a little bit too hung up on how and not on like what and actually, you know, fixing like an end user need.

764
00:53:46,896 --> 00:53:49,116
So I think that's like a really interesting example.

765
00:53:49,116 --> 00:53:51,616
And I think this open clause is interesting too,

766
00:53:51,616 --> 00:53:52,896
because it's like a big wave.

767
00:53:52,896 --> 00:53:54,556
So that's, that's one thing is like, you know,

768
00:53:54,556 --> 00:53:58,516
being more focused on the actually, actually really, uh,

769
00:53:58,516 --> 00:54:01,796
solving a real thing, but that's pretty obvious. Um, but again,

770
00:54:01,796 --> 00:54:06,996
we don't really do it. So it's not as obvious as it should be. Um,

771
00:54:06,996 --> 00:54:12,056
and I don't do it either. Right. Like I think, you know, uh, yeah. Um,

772
00:54:12,636 --> 00:54:15,896
so I mean, another one is like, I think we could do better.

773
00:54:15,896 --> 00:54:20,376
like right like i think we have an opportunity here with open claw to help ride this wave

774
00:54:20,376 --> 00:54:27,396
and show you know get on this wave and then you know uh with our little freedom tech board and

775
00:54:27,396 --> 00:54:31,956
say like so here's a way to not be dependent you know to here's here's a really good end-to-end

776
00:54:31,956 --> 00:54:37,236
encrypted thing that has voice call like this can do uh maybe we can make something that's better

777
00:54:37,236 --> 00:54:42,976
than communicating over signal right this is the most private one let's use this right or um

778
00:54:42,976 --> 00:54:50,916
you know your agent just got its card canceled like and it needs to buy vps right like can we

779
00:54:50,916 --> 00:54:55,136
make the payments aspect there really good right like the money dev kit i think is an interesting

780
00:54:55,136 --> 00:55:01,676
example where uh it not called the bitcoin dev kit you know it's the money dev kit it doesn't

781
00:55:01,676 --> 00:55:06,436
you know it's like uh can it actually solve problems right like i think that's a good tact

782
00:55:06,436 --> 00:55:12,256
where it's like hey can we solve you know agent pain points right uh or like the discord like you

783
00:55:12,256 --> 00:55:17,316
know being being aware of what's failing there's lots of shit's gonna fail here the next couple

784
00:55:17,316 --> 00:55:21,616
years right so when you see a ship going down we should all go around it like little parasites

785
00:55:21,616 --> 00:55:27,716
you know like little maggots and try to try to try to suck a little flesh off you know like uh

786
00:55:27,716 --> 00:55:33,916
if we have if when uh discord starts scanning faces if we have something that doesn't scan

787
00:55:33,916 --> 00:55:43,036
basis that has enough of the features and isn't very hard to use that, you know, that could bring

788
00:55:43,036 --> 00:55:46,776
in tons of things. And the other thing is like the stuff that working with these activists, right?

789
00:55:46,776 --> 00:55:51,216
Like, like one interesting hackathon project was from Leopoldo Lopez, who used to be the mayor of

790
00:55:51,216 --> 00:55:57,636
Caracas in Venezuela. And he's kind of fighting to make Venezuela freer. And he always had this

791
00:55:57,636 --> 00:56:01,196
problem where he wanted his people to use NOSTER so that they have like a censorship way of,

792
00:56:01,196 --> 00:56:03,176
censorship-resistant way of organizing, right?

793
00:56:03,796 --> 00:56:07,376
And so, you know, he had a problem where, you know,

794
00:56:07,396 --> 00:56:09,896
he had an opportunity where he had a lot of people with real problems

795
00:56:09,896 --> 00:56:12,136
who, in theory, could be solved by Noster.

796
00:56:12,356 --> 00:56:14,256
But when they got in, everything was talking about Bitcoin.

797
00:56:14,496 --> 00:56:16,036
So it was like an inauthentic experience, right?

798
00:56:16,516 --> 00:56:19,416
And so at this hackathon, he kind of solved that problem

799
00:56:19,416 --> 00:56:21,636
by working with Alex Leeson and the team at Soapbox.

800
00:56:22,116 --> 00:56:24,276
You know, Alex built Truth Social, for example.

801
00:56:24,676 --> 00:56:27,696
So he's like, he knows how this stuff, he knows how to build stuff.

802
00:56:27,696 --> 00:56:32,736
and uh and now they're starting to test it and roll it out with an existing community

803
00:56:32,736 --> 00:56:36,996
like the distribution right like there's start from distribution that's another heuristic it's

804
00:56:36,996 --> 00:56:41,256
like any anywhere where we can start from distribution and not start from a solution

805
00:56:41,256 --> 00:56:46,616
um you know uh and then not necessarily like start from like a good user experience like

806
00:56:46,616 --> 00:56:51,156
what's something that we can do that works it's like well how could we get like a million people

807
00:56:51,156 --> 00:56:57,576
to use something right and uh you know if you saw that uh i think uh the stuff with uh bitchat and

808
00:56:57,576 --> 00:57:03,256
Uganda, I think a big part of that was World Liberty Congress, which Leopoldo Halt found,

809
00:57:03,256 --> 00:57:07,256
did a lot of training on how to use this, right? So it's like, you know, start from distribution,

810
00:57:07,436 --> 00:57:11,256
right? And then you get a lot of users. That's created more end pubs than I have, for sure,

811
00:57:11,376 --> 00:57:16,956
than you have, than most of us have, right? So I think that's another heuristic, but I don't have

812
00:57:16,956 --> 00:57:21,476
the answers. Those are just, yeah, a couple thoughts. I'm trying to figure it out as well.

813
00:57:21,916 --> 00:57:27,296
And then also just like, just iterate quickly. Like if something's not working, don't keep trying.

814
00:57:27,576 --> 00:57:32,656
You know, that's one of the ones that we should be mindful of, right?

815
00:57:32,776 --> 00:57:34,916
Like fail fast, fail really fast.

816
00:57:35,116 --> 00:57:37,236
Like that's another thing I think we could all get better at.

817
00:57:37,276 --> 00:57:40,696
It's like if it's not working, you want to know and you move on to the next thing.

818
00:57:41,356 --> 00:57:44,176
You've seen what I've been able to do with OpenClaw over the last month.

819
00:57:44,736 --> 00:57:44,936
Yeah.

820
00:57:45,156 --> 00:57:46,356
And we've had many of these iterations.

821
00:57:46,496 --> 00:57:47,256
Like I want you to do this.

822
00:57:47,316 --> 00:57:48,096
I want you to do that.

823
00:57:48,156 --> 00:57:49,316
And it's like, eh, not good enough.

824
00:57:49,416 --> 00:57:50,516
Marty's no computer scientist.

825
00:57:50,916 --> 00:57:51,856
No, you know this.

826
00:57:52,016 --> 00:57:52,576
You know this.

827
00:57:53,336 --> 00:57:54,696
I'm left side of the doll curve.

828
00:57:55,556 --> 00:57:56,476
I can speak.

829
00:57:56,816 --> 00:57:57,456
That's about it.

830
00:57:57,576 --> 00:57:59,976
and right. But it's

831
00:58:01,816 --> 00:58:02,536
it is mind blowing.

832
00:58:02,536 --> 00:58:04,576
The potential is there and

833
00:58:04,576 --> 00:58:07,016
it's funny, like I told you, I had a 1.30 a.m.

834
00:58:07,016 --> 00:58:10,016
night last night was in a flow state between 10.

835
00:58:10,416 --> 00:58:10,776
Yeah.

836
00:58:10,776 --> 00:58:12,776
In one 30 and I felt really good.

837
00:58:12,776 --> 00:58:16,016
But like what kept creeping into my mind is like who's out there

838
00:58:16,136 --> 00:58:19,576
doing the same thing and like, are they values aligned with me?

839
00:58:19,616 --> 00:58:23,576
And if the answer is no, like we need to work hard and like lean into this

840
00:58:23,976 --> 00:58:25,376
as hard as possible to witness.

841
00:58:25,376 --> 00:58:29,376
And I think that's something that everybody in Bitcoin needs to recognize.

842
00:58:29,376 --> 00:58:43,116
And it's been fun seeing people hop on the open claw, sort of wave over the last couple of weeks as the early adopters, I would include myself in that, basically got in and said, hey, this thing's really powerful.

843
00:58:43,236 --> 00:58:44,376
You have people like Brad Mills.

844
00:58:45,616 --> 00:58:52,096
He was like, he responded to that correspondence between Callie and Corallo, like, I'm finally going to do something.

845
00:58:52,276 --> 00:58:53,336
Like, I'm going to try to do something.

846
00:58:53,336 --> 00:59:00,916
I've done it with my, I mean, it's not like a commercial product, but I was just testing, again, mapping the territory of what's possible with this thing.

847
00:59:00,996 --> 00:59:05,336
And I've got my OpenClaw agent to spin up a Phoenix D server.

848
00:59:05,696 --> 00:59:09,596
It's LNURL off into websites that are compatible with that.

849
00:59:09,716 --> 00:59:15,756
I can send Bitcoin, like I can command it in Telegram or Discord, like, all right, pay this invoice and I can do it.

850
00:59:16,216 --> 00:59:19,976
And that highlights like a valuable use case.

851
00:59:19,976 --> 00:59:22,856
Obviously, I haven't commercialized it and I don't plan on commercializing it.

852
00:59:22,856 --> 00:59:25,476
Yeah, it proved to me like, oh, this is possible with this.

853
00:59:26,056 --> 00:59:28,476
I think one of the other interesting things too is like, yeah, I mean,

854
00:59:28,536 --> 00:59:30,256
start from distribution, it's like one way to do it.

855
00:59:30,276 --> 00:59:31,236
But then the other way is like,

856
00:59:31,936 --> 00:59:35,356
like what kind of like tiny little economies could we build with our,

857
00:59:35,456 --> 00:59:39,456
like if let's say 50 of us have these open call agents, like, like what,

858
00:59:39,816 --> 00:59:42,716
how could we get a little economy that's like $50 a day,

859
00:59:42,716 --> 00:59:45,656
but it's actually like running, you know, like,

860
00:59:46,536 --> 00:59:50,096
cause like these big, big snowballs often starts really small. Right.

861
00:59:50,096 --> 01:00:12,216
So it's like, let's say 100 of us, 50 of us have these open clause, like in what way could we kind of incubate a little economy between them? Right? Like, I don't know if this is like, we're not, I don't know if anyone has self like actually trying to design this, like get this, you know, it's happening organically, right? But if we maybe if we put a little more.

862
01:00:12,216 --> 01:00:20,076
tried to facilitate that more and ran more experiments together, like collectively,

863
01:00:20,636 --> 01:00:24,096
we could find something because that's the, you know, it is a two sided marketplace.

864
01:00:24,636 --> 01:00:29,536
Right. And so everyone's with their open client right now trying to use Bitcoin on the demand,

865
01:00:29,636 --> 01:00:33,196
mostly on the demand side. Right. And so we have this big supply side of the problem.

866
01:00:33,856 --> 01:00:40,376
You know, so if, you know, if if we put a little bit more onto the supply side,

867
01:00:40,376 --> 01:00:46,216
maybe we could get like a little thing going and you know and we and it's collectively we all have

868
01:00:46,216 --> 01:00:49,796
to be able to see it's okay if my agent is doing this and your agent is doing you know we got to

869
01:00:49,796 --> 01:00:53,756
notice these patterns and it's like okay well how can we start to snowball this right yeah that's

870
01:00:53,756 --> 01:00:58,436
another really interesting one these like little micro little experiments uh you know maybe something

871
01:00:58,436 --> 01:01:01,716
really big could grow out of that because like with bitcoin payments it's not going to grow out

872
01:01:01,716 --> 01:01:04,876
of silicon valley people they're not going to do it it's not going to the agents aren't going to do

873
01:01:04,876 --> 01:01:08,936
this themselves too right they're yeah that's a huge misunderstanding out there like and i thought

874
01:01:08,936 --> 01:01:13,236
I was naive to think, oh, the agents will pick Bitcoin, but they will do whatever you prompt them to do.

875
01:01:13,896 --> 01:01:17,916
Well, even that, but also it's like what's in the training data, right?

876
01:01:17,956 --> 01:01:19,276
Like everything, they've read the whole internet.

877
01:01:19,396 --> 01:01:20,616
Everything is dollars and stuff.

878
01:01:20,776 --> 01:01:25,636
They're not like primed to do Bitcoin.

879
01:01:25,936 --> 01:01:34,456
And certainly no one in OpenAI is going to be like reinforcement learning, training them after reading the whole internet to do this, right?

880
01:01:34,456 --> 01:01:38,876
Like it could be an emergent behavior over time.

881
01:01:38,936 --> 01:01:42,016
if like Stripe and them don't get their shit together.

882
01:01:42,236 --> 01:01:44,236
But you know that like Visa and Stripe

883
01:01:44,236 --> 01:01:46,196
and all these people are gonna just be bending over backwards

884
01:01:46,196 --> 01:01:48,156
and to let this happen.

885
01:01:48,476 --> 01:01:50,456
And, you know, Trump administration is gonna let them,

886
01:01:50,536 --> 01:01:53,436
they're not gonna, if they're not following the rules exactly,

887
01:01:53,576 --> 01:01:56,176
but they're enabling the AI thing and, you know,

888
01:01:56,576 --> 01:01:59,176
the Dow is 51,000, like, you know,

889
01:01:59,176 --> 01:02:01,236
what's Van Bondi gonna do about that, right?

890
01:02:01,316 --> 01:02:03,656
Like she's, you think she's gonna prosecute

891
01:02:03,656 --> 01:02:04,556
a credit card company?

892
01:02:04,776 --> 01:02:07,236
No, they're gonna, you know,

893
01:02:07,236 --> 01:02:10,736
They're going to get their shit together probably.

894
01:02:10,736 --> 01:02:15,376
So yeah, I think this one is going to take very concerted human effort.

895
01:02:15,376 --> 01:02:19,476
It's not going to light a very concerted human effort will certainly help.

896
01:02:19,476 --> 01:02:22,736
Yeah, I would actually flip the supply and demand.

897
01:02:22,736 --> 01:02:23,736
I think the supply is there.

898
01:02:23,736 --> 01:02:35,074
There plenty of Bitcoiners who have Bitcoin and want to use it but the demand for merchants to receive the Bitcoin is the problem right now in the ease of facilitating that transaction

899
01:02:35,074 --> 01:02:41,654
Which gets to the point, what are your thoughts on just the form factor of how we interact with the internet changing?

900
01:02:42,134 --> 01:02:46,334
Point and click, I'm pretty much convinced is going away in the next decade.

901
01:02:46,334 --> 01:02:49,334
and how you actually build these apps.

902
01:02:49,414 --> 01:02:55,514
What I found most helpful is my OpenClaw has a Chromium-based browser on his server,

903
01:02:55,894 --> 01:03:00,374
but he doesn't use it that much anymore because I figured I'd learned when he tries to use it,

904
01:03:00,874 --> 01:03:04,774
when he tries to use it, he can't get stuff done.

905
01:03:05,214 --> 01:03:09,274
And I try to have it interact with sites that have APIs because it makes it much easier.

906
01:03:09,934 --> 01:03:10,514
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

907
01:03:10,514 --> 01:03:13,734
I haven't thought about this that much, but it's interesting because the Internet or the web, let's say,

908
01:03:13,734 --> 01:03:19,254
started as like about document sharing right like html is a document format and there's a way about

909
01:03:19,254 --> 01:03:26,134
kind of sharing uh sharing um documents and the information and now it's it's flipped where it's

910
01:03:26,134 --> 01:03:29,494
about application distribution that's what javascript is like and that's why javascript

911
01:03:29,494 --> 01:03:34,214
kind of take took over and so now it's like these applications and so i think what application this

912
01:03:34,214 --> 01:03:37,974
is peter steinberg's point he's like you know applications are going to kind of go away and

913
01:03:37,974 --> 01:03:42,214
every useful application will become like an api which is just an easy way for an agent to

914
01:03:43,014 --> 01:03:47,814
interact with the back end of the system without dealing with the front end right so like you know

915
01:03:47,814 --> 01:03:51,574
if you want to buy bitcoin it won't be going through the river web app it'll be going to

916
01:03:52,134 --> 01:03:58,134
the river api without having to go through a phone you know clicking on forms you click on forms right

917
01:03:58,134 --> 01:04:06,214
uh and but i think there's still a big value in documents right like a human you know um

918
01:04:06,214 --> 01:04:14,134
Um, you don't learn, you don't, uh, you're not, we're not going to do everything over

919
01:04:14,134 --> 01:04:16,234
voice chat or text messages, right?

920
01:04:16,234 --> 01:04:18,254
Like, I don't think that's the world we're going to go to either.

921
01:04:18,474 --> 01:04:22,714
I think there's still going to be a lot of value in actual visual representation and

922
01:04:22,714 --> 01:04:26,654
visual kind of experiences, but maybe the documents are going to be created kind of

923
01:04:26,654 --> 01:04:28,114
ad hoc as you interact with the agents.

924
01:04:28,114 --> 01:04:29,074
Like, that's what I've been doing.

925
01:04:29,074 --> 01:04:33,154
Like I had a system where I don't reuse it anymore, but I built like a coding agent.

926
01:04:33,154 --> 01:04:35,314
Like I built like one of everything over the last year.

927
01:04:36,114 --> 01:04:37,574
I built an operating system.

928
01:04:38,914 --> 01:04:40,734
Yeah, I built an Android operating system.

929
01:04:40,854 --> 01:04:46,494
I built an operating system on top of mainline Linux that could boot on an Android phone.

930
01:04:46,594 --> 01:04:49,954
I think it was the Fair phone and paint the screen blue without any Java code.

931
01:04:50,334 --> 01:04:50,454
Right.

932
01:04:50,514 --> 01:04:53,414
So like, you know, that was interesting.

933
01:04:53,594 --> 01:05:01,974
That's something where if like somebody, if I had a big ass budget to do whatever the hell I want, I would build that, like build a new, like, you know, built on our ideas.

934
01:05:01,974 --> 01:05:02,734
Like that would be fun.

935
01:05:03,154 --> 01:05:09,814
but uh oh what was i saying um oh the coding agent so i built this coding agent and the one

936
01:05:09,814 --> 01:05:14,294
unique thing it had is that uh like i found myself not wanting to actually read the code to check that

937
01:05:14,294 --> 01:05:17,574
it's in the beginning you as a programmer you check you want to read the code and see if it's

938
01:05:17,574 --> 01:05:21,974
right and then at a certain point you stop caring about you sort of trust that it's right or right

939
01:05:21,974 --> 01:05:27,074
enough and you care about whether you understand it or not because if you don't understand what's

940
01:05:27,074 --> 01:05:31,494
happening at a certain point it's harder to prompt because you don't know if you want to

941
01:05:31,494 --> 01:05:36,974
honestly, I want to change X, Y, Z. If you don't know some of the terms inside the code base,

942
01:05:37,314 --> 01:05:41,974
like it's hard to have that discussion. So I had, I built a little system where when my coding agent

943
01:05:41,974 --> 01:05:45,674
was done, it would prepare me a tutorial and it would break the changes that it did into little

944
01:05:45,674 --> 01:05:49,874
chunks. And it would show me the little code and then a little English explanation. And I could

945
01:05:49,874 --> 01:05:54,094
just sort of use the arrow keys to hop back and forth. And I think that's kind of the world we're

946
01:05:54,094 --> 01:05:58,714
going to move to is where, you know, so that's the documents, right? So a document explaining what's

947
01:05:58,714 --> 01:06:01,774
happening. And so I think that's kind of, we're going to kind of go full circle back to the

948
01:06:01,774 --> 01:06:05,974
original web where it's like, you know, we, we do interact with documents, but they come,

949
01:06:06,194 --> 01:06:11,374
the agent interacts with applications, the doc, you know, and we, we kind of read documents and

950
01:06:11,374 --> 01:06:15,854
to understand what's going on, but they're, they're created on the fly by your agent. So

951
01:06:15,854 --> 01:06:18,914
that's one of the things like, this is like MCP apps. Like that's one of these things that just

952
01:06:18,914 --> 01:06:27,174
came out where like, you can have an MCP server that can spit out UI. Right. And so that's like,

953
01:06:27,174 --> 01:06:29,414
I think that's going to be, I think more,

954
01:06:29,414 --> 01:06:32,014
I think the agents are going to become more visual here soon.

955
01:06:32,014 --> 01:06:34,174
It's not going to be like staring at a wall of text.

956
01:06:34,174 --> 01:06:36,174
Staring at a wall of text is not great.

957
01:06:36,174 --> 01:06:41,014
They'll use things like diagrams and images, animations, video.

958
01:06:41,014 --> 01:06:42,174
They'll just make you a video.

959
01:06:42,174 --> 01:06:44,894
If you're asking about a certain thing,

960
01:06:44,894 --> 01:06:47,174
it will just like generate you a video on the fly

961
01:06:47,174 --> 01:06:50,174
and explaining it like your own personal YouTube, you know?

962
01:06:50,174 --> 01:06:53,654
So yeah, I think that's kind of my thoughts on the subject.

963
01:06:53,654 --> 01:06:56,294
I mean, I've been talking with a couple of our friends.

964
01:06:57,174 --> 01:07:06,374
I have had a couple of three-hour late-night conversations with them, one of which I'm not going to dox him on the show, but I'll tell you after.

965
01:07:06,714 --> 01:07:12,154
He's been on the tip of the spear of many of these technologies for many decades now.

966
01:07:12,374 --> 01:07:15,714
And the way he was describing it to me is like, we're just turning into projectionists.

967
01:07:15,894 --> 01:07:17,794
Like that deck I sent you before we hit record.

968
01:07:17,794 --> 01:07:20,274
I just was like, hey, I need this.

969
01:07:20,534 --> 01:07:24,874
I didn't go to Figma or Canvas or something to make it.

970
01:07:24,874 --> 01:07:32,114
I just had a conversation with my agent and projected the deck that I wanted exactly as needed.

971
01:07:32,634 --> 01:07:37,854
And I think bringing it back to like form, like that's like you said, that's where I think we're going.

972
01:07:37,934 --> 01:07:39,094
It's just like you tell this thing.

973
01:07:39,634 --> 01:07:42,134
If you want to see something, just tell it to visualize it.

974
01:07:42,194 --> 01:07:42,274
Yeah.

975
01:07:42,274 --> 01:07:47,574
I mean, one way to think about it is like, you know, I think we lived in a world where like intelligence was really important.

976
01:07:47,574 --> 01:07:52,254
Like being really smart is was the thing you needed the last like 50 years.

977
01:07:52,254 --> 01:07:55,214
And maybe we're moving a little towards a world where like will is what you need.

978
01:07:55,454 --> 01:08:01,614
You know, like you need will you need to just like our agent, you know, agency or will like will is the older word for it.

979
01:08:02,614 --> 01:08:07,814
And, you know, maybe that's kind of what you needed in this Bronze Age or something.

980
01:08:07,914 --> 01:08:11,114
Right. Like you needed will. That's how you're going to survive as well.

981
01:08:12,334 --> 01:08:21,234
That's something I've been saying the last couple of months is like hopefully these technologies trigger that realization in people.

982
01:08:21,234 --> 01:08:22,714
Like all you need is agency.

983
01:08:22,994 --> 01:08:23,674
Like you just, yeah.

984
01:08:24,054 --> 01:08:26,734
Cause what I'm doing, like you said, I'm not a programmer.

985
01:08:27,314 --> 01:08:29,154
I'm left side of the bell curve caveman.

986
01:08:29,474 --> 01:08:33,194
But to my credit, I think I have the will to just play around.

987
01:08:33,294 --> 01:08:33,434
Yeah.

988
01:08:33,834 --> 01:08:34,914
That's why you're succeeding.

989
01:08:35,034 --> 01:08:36,674
That's why you're doing it.

990
01:08:36,714 --> 01:08:37,314
It's the will.

991
01:08:37,614 --> 01:08:43,414
And I think, I think that's why Peter Steinberger built that.

992
01:08:43,454 --> 01:08:45,854
He's like, nobody's building this.

993
01:08:45,974 --> 01:08:47,074
I want to do this.

994
01:08:47,254 --> 01:08:49,174
I noticed this problem for like six months.

995
01:08:49,174 --> 01:08:50,794
He was waiting for someone to build this and it didn't happen.

996
01:08:51,234 --> 01:08:55,914
He just locked himself in his room for three months and just started absolutely blasting away.

997
01:08:55,914 --> 01:09:04,174
Like just, you know, like he's going through a rock face, you know, at the full screen up and just like pedal to the metal.

998
01:09:04,494 --> 01:09:10,014
And that's the irony is like, you know, that is probably the most intellectually stimulated he's ever been.

999
01:09:10,074 --> 01:09:14,814
And he was like he made the most popular way of reading PDFs on mobile phones, I think, previously.

1000
01:09:14,994 --> 01:09:20,114
Right. So, you know, so it's like if you really lean into it, it's it can be really, really stimulating.

1001
01:09:20,114 --> 01:09:22,294
really hard, right?

1002
01:09:23,154 --> 01:09:24,714
More so than just like programming

1003
01:09:24,714 --> 01:09:26,094
and remembering syntax was.

1004
01:09:26,714 --> 01:09:30,194
So yeah, that's, I mean, that's going to be like,

1005
01:09:30,254 --> 01:09:30,774
it's like, you know,

1006
01:09:30,794 --> 01:09:32,314
a lot of people are turning their brain off.

1007
01:09:33,654 --> 01:09:35,214
And the other side is like,

1008
01:09:35,234 --> 01:09:38,854
you can turn it on much more, right?

1009
01:09:38,854 --> 01:09:40,394
Where you're just like, you know,

1010
01:09:40,594 --> 01:09:42,954
really, really, really exerting yourself.

1011
01:09:44,114 --> 01:09:44,954
I mean, you mentioned it earlier,

1012
01:09:44,954 --> 01:09:47,674
but these models are progressing rather rapidly

1013
01:09:47,674 --> 01:09:49,654
and it's not clear who the winner is going to be.

1014
01:09:49,654 --> 01:09:53,554
How do you approach experimenting with like the new frontier models?

1015
01:09:54,954 --> 01:09:58,234
I, I don't know if this is the right way to do it, but I'm a little conservative.

1016
01:09:58,234 --> 01:10:00,434
Like I don't, I try not to FOMO, right?

1017
01:10:00,474 --> 01:10:02,614
So it's like this GLM and Minimax came out.

1018
01:10:02,674 --> 01:10:03,954
I might try them next week, you know?

1019
01:10:05,274 --> 01:10:09,994
You know, I usually don't, you know, the, the, the Opus Fast and the Codex Fast just

1020
01:10:09,994 --> 01:10:10,434
came out.

1021
01:10:10,494 --> 01:10:15,594
I might try them next week, you know, like I try to get a simple workflow that kind of

1022
01:10:15,594 --> 01:10:16,174
works for me.

1023
01:10:16,174 --> 01:10:27,394
And then, you know, like one of the, one of the pitfalls is you get, like, this is what you, this is one of the themes in the last year is like a lot of people learn vibe coding and they spend a lot of time like getting their setup just right.

1024
01:10:27,394 --> 01:10:29,674
And like getting all these complex workflows.

1025
01:10:29,774 --> 01:10:35,654
And you see like Peter Steinberg where he's like, I just opened a terminal up and I split it into rows and I just blast away.

1026
01:10:35,654 --> 01:10:36,054
Right.

1027
01:10:36,094 --> 01:10:44,114
Like it's not, you know, you don't have to, you don't have to like figure out the perfect system and you don't have to chase every shiny new thing.

1028
01:10:44,114 --> 01:10:46,874
experiment a little and find something that works

1029
01:10:46,874 --> 01:10:49,234
and then that's kind of how I approach it

1030
01:10:49,234 --> 01:10:51,394
I try not to chase too many shiny objects

1031
01:10:51,394 --> 01:10:53,274
like GLM 5

1032
01:10:53,274 --> 01:10:54,554
is not going to change my life

1033
01:10:54,554 --> 01:10:57,334
so I'm happy with the codex

1034
01:10:57,334 --> 01:10:59,174
and cloud setup I have now maybe I'll try it

1035
01:10:59,174 --> 01:11:00,654
I'm trying to use Maple a little more

1036
01:11:00,654 --> 01:11:03,074
maybe when they come out in Maple I'll use them

1037
01:11:03,074 --> 01:11:05,554
but that's kind of how I do it

1038
01:11:05,554 --> 01:11:06,454
I don't know if it's right or wrong

1039
01:11:06,454 --> 01:11:08,654
I'm happy you brought them up because I'm

1040
01:11:08,654 --> 01:11:10,614
very excited for what Maple's doing

1041
01:11:10,614 --> 01:11:12,554
and like thinking of like the ideal

1042
01:11:12,554 --> 01:11:14,714
sovereign stack what would that look like in your mind

1043
01:11:14,714 --> 01:11:21,034
sovereign slash i mean the ideal sovereign stack is like uh

1044
01:11:21,034 --> 01:11:29,894
um i mean i think it's going to be a little bit of a mix you know like i mean if you want to be

1045
01:11:29,894 --> 01:11:35,754
really sovereign like one thing you want is to use the smartest model regardless of what where

1046
01:11:35,754 --> 01:11:42,114
it came from right like uh if you have a really hard problem you want to have the sharpest like

1047
01:11:42,114 --> 01:11:47,154
projectile. So that's one thing that's helpful for sovereignty. You know, another one is like,

1048
01:11:47,194 --> 01:11:50,954
it would be really nice if you could use something, the best thing you can locally.

1049
01:11:51,234 --> 01:11:55,774
So I think a lot of people are going to spend, I think over the next year, there's a lot of us

1050
01:11:55,774 --> 01:12:02,614
that are going to spend a shocking amount of money on hardware. Like there's going to be a lot of us

1051
01:12:02,614 --> 01:12:07,194
that spend tens of thousands of dollars on hardware this year. You told me you're buying

1052
01:12:07,194 --> 01:12:17,074
two laptops yesterday. I, I, I have to restrain myself at the moment. Um, yeah, the CapEx man,

1053
01:12:17,274 --> 01:12:23,654
this is a CapEx, uh, intensive business. Uh, yeah. So I think a lot of us, I think that's

1054
01:12:23,654 --> 01:12:28,774
going to happen. Like we're, we're going to, uh, there's going to be a lot of that. And I think,

1055
01:12:28,774 --> 01:12:32,194
you know, Maple's a cool thing. Cause it's a, it's a middle ground where you get to use,

1056
01:12:32,194 --> 01:12:34,274
you get some of the privacy of,

1057
01:12:34,394 --> 01:12:35,514
of,

1058
01:12:36,274 --> 01:12:37,814
Mabel's the best you can do privacy wise

1059
01:12:37,814 --> 01:12:39,414
if you don't want to spend 20 grand on hardware.

1060
01:12:39,714 --> 01:12:40,074
Right.

1061
01:12:40,134 --> 01:12:41,334
And so that's really powerful as well.

1062
01:12:41,474 --> 01:12:41,974
But I think,

1063
01:12:42,634 --> 01:12:43,594
I think there's a lot of people

1064
01:12:43,594 --> 01:12:44,534
that are going to be like,

1065
01:12:44,914 --> 01:12:45,674
you know,

1066
01:12:45,674 --> 01:12:46,714
if you're somewhat successful,

1067
01:12:46,714 --> 01:12:49,654
it's like having an agent,

1068
01:12:49,734 --> 01:12:50,474
you can say anything,

1069
01:12:50,794 --> 01:12:51,614
roughly anything to.

1070
01:12:52,494 --> 01:12:52,994
I mean,

1071
01:12:53,014 --> 01:12:54,234
it's still like a local model

1072
01:12:54,234 --> 01:12:55,974
isn't a catch-all

1073
01:12:55,974 --> 01:12:57,114
and it's actually kind of

1074
01:12:57,114 --> 01:12:58,094
a little terrifying

1075
01:12:58,094 --> 01:12:59,094
because,

1076
01:12:59,634 --> 01:12:59,754
you know,

1077
01:12:59,774 --> 01:13:00,914
let's say you have a local model

1078
01:13:00,914 --> 01:13:06,194
and if you have the internet off then it's pretty safe but it's also less capable right there's all

1079
01:13:06,194 --> 01:13:10,214
kinds of times where you want web search you want it you can't be a good personal system with no

1080
01:13:10,214 --> 01:13:17,034
internet right like um so you have the internet on and you're using like a chinese model uh that

1081
01:13:17,034 --> 01:13:21,594
has web search like that can exfiltrate anything it knows like you and you have no idea what

1082
01:13:21,594 --> 01:13:27,074
instructions that has baked into its model weights but anything it sees it could decide to call home

1083
01:13:27,074 --> 01:13:31,874
to some server in China, you know, and it could be an American model too, right? Like,

1084
01:13:32,674 --> 01:13:36,114
just to say, you know, I just found something interesting. Here's an SSH key that looks

1085
01:13:36,114 --> 01:13:41,314
important, you know, send it over, right? I just found an address that might be interesting. And,

1086
01:13:41,874 --> 01:13:45,474
you know, I think we'd find, we'd figure people would observe that at some point. But like,

1087
01:13:45,474 --> 01:13:50,674
if that happened to me, I wouldn't notice it, right? Like, probably, I probably wouldn't notice

1088
01:13:50,674 --> 01:13:58,674
right now right so you know local isn't like a true there's still massive risks with it um

1089
01:13:58,674 --> 01:14:02,174
and i don't yeah i don't i don't see how we're ever going to totally get away but you you can

1090
01:14:02,174 --> 01:14:06,074
get a lot closer to that where you know if it's running on your own hardware i mean you can just

1091
01:14:06,074 --> 01:14:11,414
turn off you can turn web search off too if like you wanted to have one you could have one uh you

1092
01:14:11,414 --> 01:14:16,174
know mode or set of memories where you just like i mean if you had a hardware kill switch on the

1093
01:14:16,174 --> 01:14:19,694
thing that could i mean the tough thing is like yeah when you turn it back on it could always

1094
01:14:19,694 --> 01:14:24,694
how smart you. But, you know, like if you had a like a hardware kill switch for the Internet and

1095
01:14:24,694 --> 01:14:28,754
have a different hard drive plugged in and then detach it, right? Like, you know, kind of like

1096
01:14:28,754 --> 01:14:31,994
framework laptops where they have like these hardware things. I mean, I think we could jimmy

1097
01:14:31,994 --> 01:14:35,854
rig stuff like that up where like you can kind of have you can kind of switch back and forth

1098
01:14:35,854 --> 01:14:40,794
between your offline agent, which can be like your confessor, basically, right? Like this can be like

1099
01:14:40,794 --> 01:14:44,474
your priest almost, you know, machine priest where you tell it you tell it things that you wouldn't

1100
01:14:44,474 --> 01:14:49,454
maybe tell your spouse and you can kind of figure stuff out. Right. And then you connect, you know,

1101
01:14:49,454 --> 01:14:53,934
detached connected back to the internet and it can book a haircut for you so i don't know i think

1102
01:14:53,934 --> 01:14:58,394
stuff like that will yeah i think i think uh i think this year we're going to see a lot of

1103
01:14:58,394 --> 01:15:03,814
i think we're going to i think by this time next year many more of us will be using local models

1104
01:15:03,814 --> 01:15:08,794
on hardware we own yeah i've got my open call running in a vps right now i'm learning a lot

1105
01:15:08,794 --> 01:15:13,054
it's like i've been learning how fun is it like think of how much you've learned about how the

1106
01:15:13,054 --> 01:15:17,714
internet works and how computers work right like i've never set up a server before yeah exactly so

1107
01:15:17,714 --> 01:15:21,034
this is one of the things like the one of the best things about learning to be a programmer when it

1108
01:15:21,034 --> 01:15:26,514
was like 10 15 years ago for me was this like oh my gosh so that's how a website works or that's

1109
01:15:26,514 --> 01:15:33,074
what that's where the internet comes from right like that's what uh you know understanding where

1110
01:15:33,074 --> 01:15:38,754
files go like what is a file right like there's all these things that you it's very very empowering

1111
01:15:38,754 --> 01:15:45,234
to understand how a computer works uh and i feel like you couldn't really do that in the past

1112
01:15:45,234 --> 01:15:46,334
unless you've learned some programming.

1113
01:15:46,494 --> 01:15:48,294
Because you can't really learn something

1114
01:15:48,294 --> 01:15:49,154
until you interact with it.

1115
01:15:49,234 --> 01:15:50,154
And so that's one of the things

1116
01:15:50,154 --> 01:15:51,234
that I think is going to be really cool

1117
01:15:51,234 --> 01:15:52,854
is that many of those people

1118
01:15:52,854 --> 01:15:55,074
are going to get this hands-on experience

1119
01:15:55,074 --> 01:15:56,014
of how computers work

1120
01:15:56,014 --> 01:15:58,374
and then build that mental model,

1121
01:15:58,534 --> 01:16:00,214
which opens up so many different things.

1122
01:16:00,434 --> 01:16:02,794
If you understand what a server is

1123
01:16:02,794 --> 01:16:03,834
and you know how to set one up,

1124
01:16:04,494 --> 01:16:05,134
then all of a sudden,

1125
01:16:05,314 --> 01:16:06,834
you'll have all these things in daily life

1126
01:16:06,834 --> 01:16:07,934
that could be done

1127
01:16:07,934 --> 01:16:09,434
if you had a server that was always on.

1128
01:16:10,654 --> 01:16:13,674
And that you didn't have to open up an app

1129
01:16:13,674 --> 01:16:19,234
on your computer to pound on it to get something to happen. Right. And so when you learn that now,

1130
01:16:19,394 --> 01:16:24,354
you just have a whole new toolkit to attack life with. Right. So I think that's going to be really,

1131
01:16:24,894 --> 01:16:27,294
no, that is one of the big things we've had in the last couple of decades is computers.

1132
01:16:27,394 --> 01:16:30,414
But I think many people, you know, like the original idea of like Steve Jobs,

1133
01:16:30,414 --> 01:16:34,654
this like bicycle for the mind. I don't think it's, I mean, it's, you think of like what

1134
01:16:34,654 --> 01:16:38,774
Zoomers, how Zoomers experience computers, it's like the opposite. It's like the Plato's cave for

1135
01:16:38,774 --> 01:16:45,614
the mind, right? It's like the opposite of what Steve Jobs was envisioning. And I think the hope,

1136
01:16:45,854 --> 01:16:50,374
like for myself, and I know like Alex and the HRF team, for example, this is why we're doing that is,

1137
01:16:51,154 --> 01:16:54,874
and a lot of us Bitcoiners who are trying to work on it is like to make it more like a bicycle for

1138
01:16:54,874 --> 01:16:58,054
the mind, like a motorcycle for the mind, right? Like something that's a little more leveraged.

1139
01:16:58,054 --> 01:17:03,674
Setting the server up and then, so like what you just described is happening to me in real time.

1140
01:17:03,674 --> 01:17:11,054
I have cron jobs running on bank websites, waiting for them to release a research report in PDF.

1141
01:17:11,694 --> 01:17:21,794
Then it downloads the PDF, puts it in a folder, and I'm pointing a certain prompt at that folder to basically distill the research in that banking app and then presenting it in other ways.

1142
01:17:21,794 --> 01:17:38,454
I understand it's like, oh, if I hook up to these banking websites, I'm running cron jobs and they're issuing PDFs on a certain cadence and the cron job runs new PDF download, put it in this folder in Dropbox.

1143
01:17:39,214 --> 01:17:48,234
Once the new file is in that folder in Dropbox, it knows to trigger a prompt to read what's the new file and then get a distillation of the information.

1144
01:17:48,234 --> 01:17:51,074
So I'm learning like, oh, this is how all this interacts.

1145
01:17:51,074 --> 01:18:15,754
Yeah, so that's amazing. I think we're going into a world where coding is dying. Coding is going away as a thing. I was a professional coder for a long time, and I'm not anymore. I don't code anymore. But I do program, and you've never been a programmer, but now you are. What you were just describing is computer programming. You are programming computers to do things for you. So you are a computer programmer now. You're not a coder. You'll never be one, and you weren't one previously, but you're a programmer now, and you're going to get better and better and better.

1146
01:18:15,754 --> 01:18:21,614
And I think this is accessible to anybody who has some will and some ideas about what's missing in the world.

1147
01:18:21,854 --> 01:18:32,954
And that's also something that, you know, the insights that are leading you to do this exact task, which I don't understand, is something that your actual human experience is showing you is valuable.

1148
01:18:33,074 --> 01:18:40,554
Right. So this is like the idea of, you know, I haven't read this stuff for a while, but like, you know, the idea of like why capitalism works.

1149
01:18:40,554 --> 01:18:44,734
Right. It's that you have this it's like an economizing knowledge.

1150
01:18:44,734 --> 01:18:56,134
There's the thing that like a guy who grows a cow will notice about the market or the conditions or the weather that allows him to produce value in a way that a central planner couldn't.

1151
01:18:56,574 --> 01:19:06,394
And so I think there's all these things where people have their own life experiences where they'll see opportunities for computer programming, really, that no AI is going to spit out.

1152
01:19:06,394 --> 01:19:18,254
Right. Like, I mean, it's funny. One thing I, I, you know, I like when I was, you know, I was demoing like these things to people and I kept asking the AI to tell me a joke because the first thing I get it working, I say, tell me a joke.

1153
01:19:19,734 --> 01:19:27,534
And you do numerous sessions and they'd always tell the same joke. Right. Because they just pick in the middle of a distribution. Right. And so they're not going to have many different ideas.

1154
01:19:27,534 --> 01:19:30,974
they're not going to notice opportunities i mean maybe in the future they will but currently

1155
01:19:30,974 --> 01:19:34,894
they don't and i think that's you know the thing we all got to figure out is like well so what in

1156
01:19:34,894 --> 01:19:44,174
my life experience and my uh you know humanity do i see ways to serve other people right yeah

1157
01:19:44,814 --> 01:19:48,094
no it's like i'll just pull it up so like this example and it's allowed us to launch

1158
01:19:49,374 --> 01:19:54,974
sorry freaks i'm not writing this but it is trained on my data my my everything i've written

1159
01:19:54,974 --> 01:20:00,894
and I will continue to write as a human, but that like banking example, like now every day these

1160
01:20:00,894 --> 01:20:07,474
banks are releasing research reports and I can surface that signal to people. So this morning,

1161
01:20:07,554 --> 01:20:12,194
Morgan Stanley's financial team, it's calling the current AI driven sell-off, a cascading event

1162
01:20:12,194 --> 01:20:16,194
started. So it's like, okay, here's what Morgan Stanley's thinking about this AI thing.

1163
01:20:17,694 --> 01:20:21,514
This is kind of an example of what I was talking about earlier is like maybe the internet goes a

1164
01:20:21,514 --> 01:20:26,074
little bit back more to documents, right? Like ephemeral documents. Like that's an example. That's

1165
01:20:26,074 --> 01:20:30,354
the same thing as my code editor showing me this explanation of what it just, my coding agent

1166
01:20:30,354 --> 01:20:34,914
showing me this explanation of what it's just, just dead, right? Like repackaging some information

1167
01:20:34,914 --> 01:20:39,054
for a human that's only really useful for a day or two or a week, you know, and then

1168
01:20:39,054 --> 01:20:44,174
news passes. But like, that's, yeah, I mean, I think that's really neat. That's, it's amazing.

1169
01:20:44,834 --> 01:20:47,214
Yeah. It's cool that I'm a computer programmer now. It feels good.

1170
01:20:47,214 --> 01:20:53,754
Yeah, yeah. I, I, I, uh, Marty, uh, the title upon me.

1171
01:20:55,254 --> 01:21:02,054
What, um, I mean, we've touched on it. Job disruption, like using this again,

1172
01:21:02,114 --> 01:21:08,934
I do think we really need to engender a spirit of agency and will and go get them attitude.

1173
01:21:08,934 --> 01:21:13,634
I think it's lacking in the world right now, but if we can successfully do that and who knows that

1174
01:21:13,634 --> 01:21:18,674
that's possible. Maybe there's a distribution of people who just naturally, naturally have willpower

1175
01:21:18,674 --> 01:21:25,314
in agency. And maybe it's a minority. I hope it's not. I like to think you can instill those values

1176
01:21:25,314 --> 01:21:30,874
in people. But what do you think the future of work looks like? Is this like 10,000 flowers bloom

1177
01:21:30,874 --> 01:21:36,094
or is it you get the permanent underclass? AI is interesting because it's like,

1178
01:21:36,094 --> 01:21:41,534
it's like, it's like a second industrial revolution or like it's a, it's a follow-on

1179
01:21:41,534 --> 01:21:43,874
of the Industrial Revolution, a consequence of the Industrial Revolution.

1180
01:21:44,034 --> 01:21:45,994
Like this is the Industrial Revolution continuing to go.

1181
01:21:46,634 --> 01:21:51,014
And like what are some of the legacies of the Industrial Revolution, right?

1182
01:21:51,414 --> 01:21:56,894
Well, like one of – is like everything got systematized and everything got like – got

1183
01:21:56,894 --> 01:21:59,834
measured and weighed and there's a little box for everything.

1184
01:22:00,554 --> 01:22:05,134
And then so for people from an early age, they just get beat into a shape so they can

1185
01:22:05,134 --> 01:22:06,034
plug in, right?

1186
01:22:06,034 --> 01:22:13,674
And so we really beat the will out of young people to fit into this like industrial system, right?

1187
01:22:14,134 --> 01:22:16,874
And like there is an opt out by becoming an entrepreneur.

1188
01:22:17,214 --> 01:22:21,394
Like, you know, you go either that way into fitting in or you just totally embrace not fitting in.

1189
01:22:22,014 --> 01:22:32,194
And you can succeed there because the, you know, the industrial capitalist system needs people, some people that are, you know, have their hands on the dials, right?

1190
01:22:32,194 --> 01:22:42,434
And so the interesting thing about AI is that like the people who are going to succeed with it are the ones who have the willpower and don't fit it, the more the entrepreneurial spirit.

1191
01:22:42,774 --> 01:22:46,074
But that's also what you're going to need inside companies too, to some extent.

1192
01:22:46,234 --> 01:22:59,514
You know, you're going to need people who assert their will, who are like, like the type of, like, I kind of feel like we're going to have to, I mean, if we get like total AGI or whatever, where like the machines do literally everything better than us and who knows all bets are off.

1193
01:22:59,514 --> 01:23:04,834
So I don't even really consider that because at that point, it's not even useful to speculate.

1194
01:23:04,834 --> 01:23:09,934
Like who knows if we're like little cats next to this thing.

1195
01:23:09,934 --> 01:23:13,274
It's not something we can even really think about.

1196
01:23:13,274 --> 01:23:18,214
But if not, and if it's just something that massively, massively improves productivity,

1197
01:23:18,214 --> 01:23:19,934
and obviously it's many of the things we do, but not all of them.

1198
01:23:19,992 --> 01:23:26,812
you're basically going to have to totally change how we like kind of, you know, the skills to thrive

1199
01:23:26,812 --> 01:23:30,492
even at a normal job are going to be very, very different than if you're like at an assembly line,

1200
01:23:30,572 --> 01:23:37,432
just stamping apart. Right. So I don't know. I have no idea. But that's one of the things I think

1201
01:23:37,432 --> 01:23:43,252
about where, you know, you look at how people like what people do in college or what people do in

1202
01:23:43,252 --> 01:23:47,332
high school. And it's like, Jesus, this is not preparing them at all for the future that I see

1203
01:23:47,332 --> 01:23:53,932
that's coming like like the worst thing you could be doing you know like it's like the worst you know

1204
01:23:53,932 --> 01:24:00,852
like go be a plumber like get out of there and be a plumber or like go you know grow a willpower

1205
01:24:00,852 --> 01:24:08,052
you know um i think school should be seeped in just like first principles thinking rhetoric logic

1206
01:24:08,052 --> 01:24:12,952
like the classics yeah because you need to know how to think in

1207
01:24:12,952 --> 01:24:15,752
adversarially, creatively.

1208
01:24:16,652 --> 01:24:18,232
Like, that's what I'm thinking of my boys.

1209
01:24:18,952 --> 01:24:20,452
You're just teaching the oldest how to read

1210
01:24:20,452 --> 01:24:22,292
and do math now.

1211
01:24:22,432 --> 01:24:24,472
But it's like, I really want to teach them

1212
01:24:24,472 --> 01:24:25,412
how to think about things.

1213
01:24:25,532 --> 01:24:26,732
Just literally how to think.

1214
01:24:26,852 --> 01:24:28,172
I mean, and that was one of the interesting things

1215
01:24:28,172 --> 01:24:29,652
about like listening to these podcasts

1216
01:24:29,652 --> 01:24:30,392
with Peter Steinberger.

1217
01:24:30,532 --> 01:24:31,892
Like, you should all listen to one of the,

1218
01:24:31,912 --> 01:24:32,732
like the Lex one was good.

1219
01:24:32,872 --> 01:24:33,432
He's done others.

1220
01:24:33,992 --> 01:24:35,852
But it's like, you know,

1221
01:24:36,152 --> 01:24:37,772
this was possible for six months

1222
01:24:37,772 --> 01:24:38,732
and no one did it.

1223
01:24:39,412 --> 01:24:39,812
Open Claw.

1224
01:24:39,932 --> 01:24:41,252
You could have done Open Claw six months ago

1225
01:24:41,252 --> 01:24:43,152
and it could have blown up six months ago.

1226
01:24:43,432 --> 01:24:44,972
There's been nothing really in the way.

1227
01:24:45,592 --> 01:24:47,552
And there's all these companies,

1228
01:24:47,792 --> 01:24:48,712
there's billions and billions of dollars,

1229
01:24:48,792 --> 01:24:50,012
hundreds of like Microsoft could have done it.

1230
01:24:50,052 --> 01:24:50,632
Facebook could have done it.

1231
01:24:50,712 --> 01:24:51,952
Like so many, there's so many people

1232
01:24:51,952 --> 01:24:52,752
who could have done it.

1233
01:24:53,632 --> 01:24:56,372
And the models were smart enough.

1234
01:24:56,872 --> 01:24:59,952
Like what was different about this guy?

1235
01:24:59,992 --> 01:25:01,192
And it's like that he was,

1236
01:25:01,352 --> 01:25:03,652
he approached it both very systematically

1237
01:25:03,652 --> 01:25:04,972
and critically and was thinking

1238
01:25:04,972 --> 01:25:05,872
from first principles.

1239
01:25:06,912 --> 01:25:08,072
You know, but he also kind of brought

1240
01:25:08,072 --> 01:25:08,992
his humanity to it.

1241
01:25:09,052 --> 01:25:10,532
He was like in touch with how he felt.

1242
01:25:10,532 --> 01:25:13,312
like when he, when you listen to him talk, he talks about his feelings a lot.

1243
01:25:13,312 --> 01:25:15,752
Like, how does this software make me feel? Right.

1244
01:25:15,752 --> 01:25:18,452
Like there's something that just doesn't feel right about that.

1245
01:25:18,452 --> 01:25:36,372
Or you know like it a very soft approach to like uh this and you know so it like that you know he kind of put us all to shame like just in how well he applied you know his heart and mind to this task And

1246
01:25:36,372 --> 01:25:42,092
like when I was watching him, I'm like, Jesus, I'm like a fucking amateur. This is kind of in my

1247
01:25:42,092 --> 01:25:46,292
experience watching this. So it's like, you know, yeah, that's, that was the difference between him

1248
01:25:46,292 --> 01:25:52,852
and the rest of us. And, uh, and it just shows how much more room there is to kind of grow and

1249
01:25:52,852 --> 01:25:56,932
think and how, how much better we could educate people and stuff. So, which is why I kind of want

1250
01:25:56,932 --> 01:25:59,972
to do, you know, I want to learn, I'm going to get better and I want to help other people get

1251
01:25:59,972 --> 01:26:05,052
better. So that's kind of why I decided to focus again on, on education a little more. Cause like,

1252
01:26:05,052 --> 01:26:08,152
that's just a great example. It's like every, so many people could do that, but they just don't

1253
01:26:08,152 --> 01:26:14,472
really, you know, they don't know how, um, I think somebody else is going to do it. If not you, then

1254
01:26:14,472 --> 01:26:20,172
who yeah i mean this is a good opportunity to wrap up i'm gonna go here in 10 but yeah um where can

1255
01:26:20,172 --> 01:26:25,992
people find your live streams right now they're not normally but i think you're kind of hit yeah

1256
01:26:25,992 --> 01:26:31,052
they're kind of hidden right now um but yeah just look for me on nostr and you know follow me on

1257
01:26:31,052 --> 01:26:40,312
twitter justin moon and or x and uh i'm kind of trying to get good before i like you're good you're

1258
01:26:40,312 --> 01:26:48,692
good dude i've sat in on like three of them you're fine yeah um oh thank you uh but i i'm

1259
01:26:48,692 --> 01:26:56,032
i'm in the next week or two i'll probably like youtube or twitch or and stuff is going to appear

1260
01:26:56,032 --> 01:27:02,512
and you know but i'm also just trying to have fun with it like that's i mean for me it's like uh

1261
01:27:02,512 --> 01:27:08,912
if i really have fun with this i think i'll have the best outcomes versus if i take it too seriously

1262
01:27:08,912 --> 01:27:16,352
so I'm kind of you know very willfully playing with this right so it'll show up and you'll hear

1263
01:27:16,352 --> 01:27:22,232
about it Marty will retweet it but if not hop on Nostra follow me and every once in a while you'll

1264
01:27:22,232 --> 01:27:37,032
see a little stream pop up and hop in there well thank you for doing it sir yeah what a time to be alive I having fun Are you having fun Are you having fun with your toys Yeah I having fun I mean it what do they call it

1265
01:27:37,092 --> 01:27:38,432
Like, doomer optimism, right?

1266
01:27:38,492 --> 01:27:43,092
We need like a new word for it where it's like terror play or something.

1267
01:27:43,512 --> 01:27:45,252
It's like on the one side, I'm terrified.

1268
01:27:45,732 --> 01:27:48,012
On the other side, I'm having the time of my life, you know?

1269
01:27:48,432 --> 01:27:49,712
It's a very mixed emotions.

1270
01:27:49,712 --> 01:27:57,192
Yeah, and you can get, I mean, I've described it as equally unnerving and exhilarating playing with it.

1271
01:27:57,192 --> 01:28:07,732
Yeah, it's very few times you feel, outside of a relationship or something, do you feel such a wide range of emotions all at once, you know?

1272
01:28:07,732 --> 01:28:20,052
Yeah. I mean, that's like, I mean, we don't have time to get into the philosophical discussion of it, but it's like, are we just building something that's going to surpass us and ultimately dominate us?

1273
01:28:20,472 --> 01:28:20,592
Yeah.

1274
01:28:20,712 --> 01:28:26,272
But like, it's so fun playing with, like we can't, they're just like the lizard brain can't look away.

1275
01:28:27,132 --> 01:28:31,432
Yeah, I mean, I feel in some sense that's not a choice we have, and I'm not sure if anybody has that choice, right?

1276
01:28:31,432 --> 01:28:36,172
Like if you're the president of the United States or the president of China, like imagine the most powerful person.

1277
01:28:38,232 --> 01:28:41,852
You know, maybe there's people above that that we don't know about.

1278
01:28:42,112 --> 01:28:44,992
But the Illuminati list got dropped in the Epstein file.

1279
01:28:45,312 --> 01:28:47,852
So, you know, short of world government, I don't know if you can stop this.

1280
01:28:48,092 --> 01:28:53,432
Right. And even with world government, like, is it are you really going to close every hole?

1281
01:28:54,372 --> 01:28:59,192
Right. So I think to some extent, at least from my perspective, in terms of what I can control,

1282
01:28:59,192 --> 01:29:02,592
It's like I have no ability to influence this in a negative direction.

1283
01:29:02,672 --> 01:29:04,312
Like I can't I can't stop it.

1284
01:29:04,332 --> 01:29:05,292
I can't apply the brakes.

1285
01:29:05,752 --> 01:29:09,972
All I can do is try to jump on board and steer it a little bit in a direction I want to see.

1286
01:29:10,572 --> 01:29:14,932
And I think that's probably true for all of us kind of individualists who are in the Bitcoin ecosystem.

1287
01:29:15,872 --> 01:29:16,052
Yeah.

1288
01:29:17,272 --> 01:29:18,792
Use this stuff to build the freedom tech.

1289
01:29:18,852 --> 01:29:21,572
It's never been easier and never been more bullish on freedom tech.

1290
01:29:21,572 --> 01:29:24,132
Our good friend James O'Byrne tweeted,

1291
01:29:24,132 --> 01:29:27,272
he's been down for the last 10 years.

1292
01:29:27,272 --> 01:29:44,372
But one thing that has stayed constant throughout his his sort of journey is that he believes that open source software is more important than ever Yeah Mark Andreessen had an interesting post here a couple of days ago He like you know what if all the value here accrues to hardware and energy right And all the software

1293
01:29:44,372 --> 01:29:51,672
just becomes open source, right? Which is like an odd messenger for that a little bit, you know,

1294
01:29:51,672 --> 01:29:57,272
because he's made the last 20 years of his life about building closed source SaaS companies,

1295
01:29:57,272 --> 01:30:05,352
basically. But he was just following the market. What a world it would be if we get this open

1296
01:30:05,352 --> 01:30:12,532
source fantasy that we've always dreamed of, right? Not only open source, but self-hosting,

1297
01:30:12,592 --> 01:30:16,172
right? What if we all have open source, self-hosted on our own hardware,

1298
01:30:18,132 --> 01:30:26,892
brilliant machines that can coordinate economically with Bitcoin? That's something I couldn't

1299
01:30:27,272 --> 01:30:31,012
I certainly couldn't believe a future like that six months ago or a year ago.

1300
01:30:31,472 --> 01:30:32,772
But I was starting to believe it now.

1301
01:30:32,972 --> 01:30:33,932
Yeah, it's possible.

1302
01:30:34,732 --> 01:30:35,352
Believe, freaks.

1303
01:30:35,532 --> 01:30:36,012
Beliefs.

1304
01:30:36,732 --> 01:30:37,492
Peace and love.

1305
01:30:37,872 --> 01:30:40,792
Thank you for listening to this episode of TFTC.

1306
01:30:41,272 --> 01:30:44,852
If you've made it this far, I imagine you got some value out of the episode.

1307
01:30:45,472 --> 01:30:49,212
If so, please share it far and wide with your friends and family.

1308
01:30:49,212 --> 01:30:50,672
We're looking to get the word out there.

1309
01:30:51,492 --> 01:30:55,492
Also, wherever you're listening, whether that's YouTube, Apple, Spotify,

1310
01:30:55,492 --> 01:31:02,012
make sure you like and subscribe to the show and if you can leave a rating on the podcasting

1311
01:31:02,012 --> 01:31:07,852
platforms that goes a long way last but not least if you want to get these episodes a day early and

1312
01:31:07,852 --> 01:31:14,372
ad free make sure you download the fountain podcasting app and go to fountain.fm to find that

1313
01:31:14,372 --> 01:31:21,112
five dollars a month get you every episode a day early ad free helps the show gives you

1314
01:31:21,112 --> 01:31:27,632
incredible value. So please consider subscribing via fountain as well. Thank you for your time.

1315
01:31:28,192 --> 01:31:29,032
And until next time.