1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,260 John, we missed a week. Memorial Day really threw a wrench in our scheduling and we couldn't make it up Tuesday. 2 00:00:06,460 --> 00:00:07,340 So we're back. 3 00:00:07,780 --> 00:00:15,460 Yeah, it's a real shame. We brought shame on our households relative to your unbroken streak with Odell on RHR. 4 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,040 Maybe we'll start our streak today going forward. 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:24,120 Yeah, we had a Friday RHR last week. Matt's feeling a little bearish. 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:31,220 I feel like he's a little bearish right now, which is usually a good sign for the near-term prospects of the Bitcoin price. 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:37,420 Though we have drifted a bit lower since we've recorded on Friday, currently below $72,000. 8 00:00:37,700 --> 00:00:40,360 But I think Bitcoin's in an interesting spot. 9 00:00:40,480 --> 00:00:48,740 We're going to, I think, end this conversation on the fundamental value prop of Bitcoin and some developments that have happened in recent weeks. 10 00:00:48,740 --> 00:00:54,180 But first, I think jumping right into it, just talking about the mimetic power of this administration. 11 00:00:54,560 --> 00:01:12,180 And you wanted to start off this week's presentation with the juxtaposition of President Trump and Jerome Powell from last year's audit of the building of the new Federal Reserve building and Secretary of Assent presenting the $250 bill with President Trump on it. 12 00:01:12,180 --> 00:01:18,600 Yeah, look, I mean, this guy, you know, much can be said about him, positive and negative. 13 00:01:19,180 --> 00:01:21,060 And, you know, we don't have time to get into all that. 14 00:01:21,180 --> 00:01:31,260 But I think the one thing that we all have to agree on is that Trump across his two administrations is responsible for some of the most iconic images of the storied history of this great country. 15 00:01:32,260 --> 00:01:36,980 And, you know, the one on the right, the Besson image is what I led off the week with, 16 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:42,660 just because I think it so perfectly captures the moment and also the contrast between what 17 00:01:42,660 --> 00:01:45,1000 happened last year with his iconic image of Trump and Powell, which I think is probably 18 00:01:45,1000 --> 00:01:48,080 the number one image that Trump will ever produce. 19 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,380 I mean, I just I don't think you can get better than this. 20 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,880 But a strong number two is this one with Besson holding up his $250 bill. 21 00:01:55,220 --> 00:02:01,060 You know, you've got larger currency denominations, right, with people struggling with price 22 00:02:01,060 --> 00:02:05,880 inflation, that's always a good sign. You've got the Treasury secretary taking the diametric 23 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:11,420 opposite stance relative to his former counterpart of the Fed as it relates to Trump. 24 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:18,320 You know, clearly with this wonderful grin showing Trump's image on the currency, 25 00:02:18,580 --> 00:02:22,300 you know, I think tells you a lot where we're going, tells you a lot about where the different 26 00:02:22,300 --> 00:02:27,100 camps sit. And yeah, I just think this picture's worth a thousand words and I'll let it speak for 27 00:02:27,100 --> 00:02:32,800 itself. Yeah, when it gets to, I mean, we just did some pre-show prep, more pre-show prep than we 28 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,880 typically do. And I think what I'm picking up is that the underlying theme of this discussion is 29 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:42,940 going to be the acceleration of the K-shaped economy and how we navigate that moving forward, 30 00:02:43,020 --> 00:02:49,220 because it seems very clear that there is some dislocation between AI and the plays within AI 31 00:02:49,220 --> 00:02:54,400 and everything else. And it's just really interesting times that we live in, but sticking 32 00:02:54,400 --> 00:03:00,640 on geopolitics and the Trump administration. I think one thing that's become clear over the last 33 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:06,560 week that a lot of the price action that we've seen in oil markets is going below 100 and staying 34 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:13,720 in the mid 80s for the last few weeks has been manufactured price due to the fact that many 35 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:20,220 nations are draining their strategic petroleum reserve as an attempt to route around the supply 36 00:03:20,220 --> 00:03:24,240 disruptions because of the closure of the straighter hermuz. Yeah. You know, and I think 37 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:29,500 this relates to the K-shaped economy as well, right? Where we're all, you know, those of us who 38 00:03:29,500 --> 00:03:33,240 are, have the need to actually be aware of what, you know, gas prices are, you know, certainly have 39 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:39,280 felt in the last six months, the impact of all the disruptions in a way that perhaps the, 40 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:44,520 those at the top of the pyramid haven't quite as much, but it hasn't been, you know, completely 41 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,860 unbearable yet. And I think there's a decent amount of confusion as to, you know, why we haven't 42 00:03:48,860 --> 00:03:51,960 blown out further. There's been speculation about this, and we've talked about it a little bit on 43 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,840 the show, but Rory Johnston, who's a great oil analyst that everyone should follow, had some 44 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:02,220 good data out highlighting that there's some incongruity in the Chinese data that they follow, 45 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:08,080 suggesting that you've had oil imports come way down, but also mobility indicators that they 46 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,920 follow are still strong. So you're not really seeing demand destruction. And he thinks that 47 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:19,520 the delta there is getting backfilled by the Chinese effectively just making massive withdrawals 48 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,120 from their petroleum reserve. He's kind of interpolating that. He doesn't have great data 49 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:28,280 to that point, but it stands to reason. And of course, they're certainly not alone. All the cool 50 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:32,260 kids are doing it and we're seeing it in the U.S. Last week, we just had our second highest 51 00:04:32,260 --> 00:04:40,080 SPR draw on record, surpassing the ones from 2022. Highest was the prior week. And then Japan also 52 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:41,940 is running the same playbook here. 53 00:04:43,140 --> 00:04:44,660 And so this is keeping us, you know, 54 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,540 keeping a relative lid on oil prices. 55 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,500 You know, it hurts, but it's not destructive yet. 56 00:04:50,780 --> 00:04:52,400 For many sectors of the economy, 57 00:04:52,700 --> 00:04:53,700 it's not probably, 58 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,380 it's getting to be a voting issue in the US, 59 00:04:56,380 --> 00:04:58,860 but it's not necessarily a rioting issue yet. 60 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:01,020 But, you know, the question is 61 00:05:01,020 --> 00:05:03,460 that when you think about stocks and flows, 62 00:05:03,660 --> 00:05:04,860 like these are all stocks, right? 63 00:05:04,900 --> 00:05:08,060 And you deplete them without re-upping them. 64 00:05:08,180 --> 00:05:09,340 You can only do that so many times. 65 00:05:09,340 --> 00:05:11,960 and you can't even get them down to actually zero. 66 00:05:12,100 --> 00:05:13,600 You need to keep some level of stock in 67 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,780 for the SPR to actually work chemically 68 00:05:15,780 --> 00:05:16,860 in function of the way that it should. 69 00:05:17,340 --> 00:05:18,540 So the question is, 70 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:20,360 how many more times can we run that playbook 71 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,380 before you start actually getting more meaningful, 72 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,620 getting in the street type impacts on the oil price? 73 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,420 Yeah, and I think last week was rather interesting 74 00:05:30,420 --> 00:05:33,040 as it pertains to this particular theme 75 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,540 because you had the CEOs of Chevron and Exxon 76 00:05:35,540 --> 00:05:37,580 come out and basically call BS saying, 77 00:05:37,580 --> 00:05:40,660 hey, these prices are artificially manufactured. 78 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,400 What we're looking at looks like the prices should increase throughout the summer, 79 00:05:45,500 --> 00:05:50,020 maybe getting back to the $150 to $160 per barrel range. 80 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,720 And I mean, I was following WTI this morning. 81 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,540 It looks like it popped above 91 from 85 over the weekend. 82 00:05:56,700 --> 00:06:00,300 I wouldn't be surprised if that's the market digesting to CEOs 83 00:06:00,300 --> 00:06:05,380 at two of the largest major oil producers in the world calling BS on this. 84 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:06,040 Yeah. 85 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,320 Yeah. The DJ in me looks at this chart and wants to call a lower high there. 86 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,580 But I won't I won't make any bets to that effect. 87 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,960 But yeah, look, this is obviously, you know, we talked about it for the last like three or four months. 88 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:20,980 Like this is kind of the the crux of the whole thing. Right. 89 00:06:20,980 --> 00:06:37,320 is who blinks first, who can, you know, maintain enough stability in core input prices to their economies to not have to back off and to maintain leverage in this whole U.S. and China, you know, via Iran type of standoff that we're looking at. 90 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:38,760 And it's TBD, right? 91 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:43,1000 The Achilles heel over in the U.S. is that this has, when this price gets out of hand, 92 00:06:44,140 --> 00:06:48,780 that has direct and meaningful impacts, not just for voters who can ultimately in November 93 00:06:48,780 --> 00:06:53,140 potentially constrain Trump's agenda, but also more significantly and more immediately for bond 94 00:06:53,140 --> 00:06:58,580 yields, which flows through everything else. So in a hyper-financialized over-financialized 95 00:06:58,580 --> 00:07:03,760 economy, we've seen a couple of times that it seems like 4-5, 4-6 on the 10-year is maybe the 96 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:08,660 place where you need to, where Treasury or somebody needs to step in and maybe Trump needs to fire off 97 00:07:08,660 --> 00:07:15,440 a positive tweet to keep the move volatility index at bay. We'll see if we need another one 98 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,020 of those in a little while. But yeah, this is, without being able to make any clear calls, 99 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,080 this is obviously the crux that everybody's got to focus on here in the next couple months. 100 00:07:23,820 --> 00:07:28,680 Yeah. I think what is more clear, at least to me, and it'd be interesting to get your 101 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:34,400 perspective on this, is where it's easier to tell the signals in the AI play right now. The numbers 102 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,880 coming out of this sector are absolutely mind-boggling. 103 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:39,320 And you have it highlighted here. 104 00:07:39,380 --> 00:07:41,700 The Micron hit a trillion-dollar market cap for the first time. 105 00:07:42,420 --> 00:07:46,580 As stock surges 19%, and then Dell stock skyrocketed 32% 106 00:07:46,580 --> 00:07:50,580 for its best day ever as AI server revenue soars. 107 00:07:50,820 --> 00:07:52,080 And then I think on top of that, 108 00:07:52,140 --> 00:07:57,380 Dell released their first hydro-cooled GPU rack 109 00:07:57,380 --> 00:07:59,420 in conjunction with CoreWeave. 110 00:07:59,420 --> 00:08:01,440 And that was announced at the end of last week as well. 111 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,620 So it seems like the infrastructure build out is happening. 112 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:05,300 It's real. 113 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,240 I know we've been talking behind the scenes using the tools. 114 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:08,940 They're real. 115 00:08:09,340 --> 00:08:14,560 They're an incredible productivity gain for teams that know how to utilize them. 116 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:19,980 And I think that's the most important thing to highlight here, that know how to utilize them, particularly in a cost efficient way. 117 00:08:19,980 --> 00:08:22,920 And again, going back to what we said earlier, 118 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:24,880 we're in this very interesting time 119 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:26,460 where you have this geopolitical strife, 120 00:08:26,460 --> 00:08:27,760 you have this K-shaped economy, 121 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:29,960 and then you have this behemoth 122 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,720 of an emerging market theme 123 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,460 and what will be a part of human society moving forward, 124 00:08:36,460 --> 00:08:50,562 which is this AI build out on the infrastructure side and then the utilization on the software side that is happening at an insane pace Yeah The funny thing here about all this is like you know 125 00:08:50,582 --> 00:08:55,822 we had Intel, we had Cisco both, you know, up on a stick, blowout earnings, making new all-time 126 00:08:55,822 --> 00:09:00,742 highs. Now you've got Micron, you've got Dell. Like we're running it back with like the late 127 00:09:00,742 --> 00:09:05,682 90s stalwarts that really defined the original tech boom and tech bubble. The interesting thing 128 00:09:05,682 --> 00:09:09,542 though, is like for, for anybody out there who wants to just make kind of a lazy comparison and 129 00:09:09,542 --> 00:09:13,802 say, well, this is obviously just kind of running back, you know, that exact same trend and that 130 00:09:13,802 --> 00:09:18,722 exact same set of themes, you know, go look at a, go look at a Cisco PE chart and in, into, 131 00:09:18,922 --> 00:09:24,022 into 2000, right. From late 90s to 2000, like we're talking like 70, 80, ultimately up to, 132 00:09:24,062 --> 00:09:27,782 I believe like 150 X earnings forward, forward earnings. So not even established earnings, 133 00:09:27,782 --> 00:09:31,202 like looking forward, Wall Street consensus earnings, you know, Nvidia right now is trading 134 00:09:31,202 --> 00:09:35,082 at like 21 times forward. And that's on numbers that are definitely like way too low. Now you can 135 00:09:35,082 --> 00:09:38,402 argue like, yeah, maybe everyone knows that they're way too low and that's, that's priced in 136 00:09:38,402 --> 00:09:43,182 to buy side consensus already. Okay, fine. But like we are, my point is like, we are in a very 137 00:09:43,182 --> 00:09:47,722 different environment and it can get, it can get a lot sillier, right? Based on historical, 138 00:09:48,162 --> 00:09:51,962 historical trends and precedents. And, but I think what you're seeing right now is you see this, 139 00:09:51,962 --> 00:09:56,742 this chart on the bottom, like you are actually seeing like meaningful acceleration in reported 140 00:09:56,742 --> 00:10:00,722 earnings. Now that's definitely a function of running it hot. It's like, you know, on an 141 00:10:00,722 --> 00:10:04,762 inflation adjusted basis, is it as good as it looks like? No, probably not. But that's the game 142 00:10:04,762 --> 00:10:09,502 right now to, to keep the, to keep the, the wheel spinning and to keep this working. 143 00:10:09,862 --> 00:10:14,182 Um, you know, the administration really needs, uh, S and P earnings to, to rip. 144 00:10:14,382 --> 00:10:16,302 And thus far, like you are seeing that. 145 00:10:16,302 --> 00:10:19,982 So you could argue like, you know, there's been a popular meme on Fentwit in the last 146 00:10:19,982 --> 00:10:24,002 few weeks, you know, it's not a bubble in the P it's a bubble in the E people are overestimating 147 00:10:24,002 --> 00:10:27,842 the long-term, you know, earnings potential of these companies for various different reasons. 148 00:10:27,842 --> 00:10:29,342 But for now, right. 149 00:10:29,342 --> 00:10:33,182 It's not been primarily other than Intel Intel's definitely had, you know, it's trading like 150 00:10:33,182 --> 00:10:33,862 120 X earnings. 151 00:10:33,862 --> 00:10:40,382 Like a lot of these stalwarts right now are trading at, you know, justifiable, like theoretically, like squint. 152 00:10:40,442 --> 00:10:44,102 And you can kind of see it multiples, at least on earnings that are like clearly accelerating. Right. 153 00:10:44,622 --> 00:10:51,422 So this is a real story thus far. I think it's probably way too lazy to write it off as just circular financing entirely. 154 00:10:51,762 --> 00:10:59,462 You know, as you said, like we're using the tools like we see at the utilities there in a way that definitely like the utilities there, the infrastructure is there in a way that it was not in 1999. 155 00:10:59,462 --> 00:11:19,782 So for now, that analog doesn't really hold. And the question is like, can this continue and persist while oil sits where it is and while energy and input prices sit where they are? And can the U.S. leverage its relative strength on like the LNG side to continue this power build out that's necessary to maintain all this? 156 00:11:19,782 --> 00:11:25,322 Or is this all going to get short-circuited by an ongoing strife in the Middle East? 157 00:11:25,522 --> 00:11:30,842 And unclear, but this is clearly a very strong force pulling in one direction on the U.S. side. 158 00:11:31,402 --> 00:11:33,342 You're on mute, Marty. Marty, you're on mute. 159 00:11:33,802 --> 00:11:39,602 Sorry. I was saying even if the energy markets do perturb the infrastructure build out, I think it will be temporary. 160 00:11:39,942 --> 00:11:45,042 Again, like you said, like I said, the utility of these tools is there. 161 00:11:45,042 --> 00:11:51,202 It's very clear. And we're only in the warm-up stage of this. I mean, the eugentic economy just 162 00:11:51,202 --> 00:11:55,042 became a thing at the beginning of this year. I mean, I think you have some charts that will 163 00:11:55,042 --> 00:12:00,622 reference, but if you look at token usage growth, it's going hockey stick, and that will only 164 00:12:00,622 --> 00:12:06,922 continue to go parabolic, especially if robotics actually come to market and become a thing, 165 00:12:06,962 --> 00:12:12,502 which I think, I mean, you can make the argument that the robo-taxis and Teslas and Waymos are 166 00:12:12,502 --> 00:12:17,942 already a form of that robotics and if you if you think about humanoid robots and robots that will 167 00:12:17,942 --> 00:12:23,462 be used in manufacturing capacity like we're at the very early stages of token utilization and 168 00:12:23,462 --> 00:12:28,342 consumption they're gonna they're gonna hit numbers that that we can't even fathom right now 169 00:12:28,342 --> 00:12:32,502 and then on top of that i think to your point about valuation i think a lot of people were 170 00:12:33,222 --> 00:12:40,662 throwing water on the spacex sort of valuation of 1.5 trillion looking at their their s1 and 171 00:12:40,662 --> 00:12:45,302 actually just record an episode with john tinsman which should drop 20 minutes from now but i think 172 00:12:45,302 --> 00:12:50,502 one thing that he highlighted that a lot of people are overlooking with the spacex numbers that were 173 00:12:50,502 --> 00:12:56,182 that were disclosed is that deal with anthropic that they did for leasing out colossus which i 174 00:12:56,182 --> 00:13:02,902 think took them anywhere from seven to ten billion dollars to to build and i think that's a uh sort 175 00:13:02,902 --> 00:13:09,062 of a it might have been even cheaper than that and they're leasing out that compute for 1.6 or 1.9 176 00:13:09,062 --> 00:13:13,702 billion a month to Anthropic for the next three years. The multiple in that Colossus build out 177 00:13:13,702 --> 00:13:17,822 alone is going to be massive, and they're building Colossus II, which is going to be a gigawatt. 178 00:13:18,002 --> 00:13:23,182 Obviously, again, going back to the robotics thing, hasn't really materialized in a way that makes it 179 00:13:23,182 --> 00:13:29,282 obvious to people, but you can easily squint and see that becoming a real thing, and to the point 180 00:13:29,282 --> 00:13:34,882 that you were making, justifying some of these valuations with SpaceX specifically, but we have 181 00:13:34,882 --> 00:13:42,002 here next. I mean, staying on this theme, Anthropic just raised 65 bill Series H at a 965 182 00:13:42,002 --> 00:13:47,842 billion post-money valuation. OpenAI is beginning to, their models are beginning to solve and 183 00:13:47,842 --> 00:13:54,242 disprove central conjecture and discrete geometry. Again, the utilization, the productivity of these 184 00:13:54,242 --> 00:13:59,282 models is being proven out. And then on top of this, I believe Anthropic had its first profitable 185 00:13:59,282 --> 00:14:05,922 quarter earlier this year too. So the sort of meme of they're just spending money to win the race, 186 00:14:05,982 --> 00:14:08,782 they're not going to make any money on the back end is beginning to dissipate as well. 187 00:14:09,382 --> 00:14:13,462 Yeah. Look, I forgot to include that headline here, but I think that's a huge one too, 188 00:14:13,762 --> 00:14:18,382 for, you know, just starting to see data points for proving out the economics. But I totally 189 00:14:18,382 --> 00:14:22,122 agree with you. And I think, you know, even if there's a lot of talk about scaling laws and, 190 00:14:22,262 --> 00:14:26,742 you know, how far can they go? And, you know, if you throw X amount of compute on a log log basis 191 00:14:26,742 --> 00:14:32,102 at the problem? Like, do you get a commensurate increase on the curve that has been established 192 00:14:32,102 --> 00:14:37,422 in capabilities and all these different metrics? And like, I think, you know, that's an important 193 00:14:37,422 --> 00:14:40,642 conversation. And definitely like if suddenly scaling laws broke, like a lot of these stocks 194 00:14:40,642 --> 00:14:46,102 would have a problem for a while. But the reality is like, if everything's stopped tomorrow in terms 195 00:14:46,102 --> 00:14:53,862 of improvements and capabilities, like I think we're at like 0.01% of the actual utility that 196 00:14:53,862 --> 00:14:55,422 can be unlocked from what we have today. 197 00:14:55,542 --> 00:14:59,182 Like I look at my workflows and you know, everyone, anyone who follows you knows that 198 00:14:59,182 --> 00:15:03,642 you've been kind of on the cutting edge of, of remaking your business and TFTC with a 199 00:15:03,642 --> 00:15:04,562 lot of these tools. 200 00:15:04,782 --> 00:15:08,142 And I think you would probably say like, you can think of like, you know, a hundred 201 00:15:08,142 --> 00:15:09,982 things you'd like to do still better with them. 202 00:15:10,242 --> 00:15:11,882 I'm like even farther behind you. 203 00:15:11,982 --> 00:15:14,922 You know, I've really started in the last couple of months to, to ramp up more and 204 00:15:14,922 --> 00:15:15,922 rethink my workflows. 205 00:15:16,202 --> 00:15:20,382 But I can, you know, sitting here today, like I can imagine like another hundred things 206 00:15:20,382 --> 00:15:22,702 that I need to build and that I could automate better. 207 00:15:22,702 --> 00:15:25,802 And, you know, we don't even have like a massive business at 1031. 208 00:15:26,022 --> 00:15:30,442 Like think through, like apply that to all of the corporations that are out there that 209 00:15:30,442 --> 00:15:34,002 have a ton of inefficiency, but also a ton of creativity in a lot of their workforce. 210 00:15:34,302 --> 00:15:38,522 Like if everything stopped today in terms of advancement, we still have yet to, we have 211 00:15:38,522 --> 00:15:43,242 like multiple decades of unlocking actual utility and productivity, you know, beyond 212 00:15:43,242 --> 00:15:45,662 what we have today out of the tools that we have just today. 213 00:15:45,782 --> 00:15:50,162 So, you know, fully co-sign, like there's a big element of this that is like clearly 214 00:15:50,162 --> 00:15:52,262 being proven out right now and that is definitively not fake. 215 00:15:52,262 --> 00:15:57,922 And if at all, like if the curves stop tomorrow, like we've got a long way to go before we fully kind of harvest what's available today. 216 00:15:58,362 --> 00:16:06,822 Yeah. Which brings us to the other side of the coin, which is you have all this incredible growth, productivity, efficiency being brought to market. 217 00:16:06,822 --> 00:16:10,622 But then that is not being felt by everybody. 218 00:16:10,622 --> 00:16:21,442 Again, leaning into the K-shaped economy meme for looking at delinquency rates, 90-plus day delinquency rates on credit cards, student loan debt, auto loans, mortgages, all beginning to creep up. 219 00:16:21,562 --> 00:16:24,782 Credit cards getting to 2008 levels. 220 00:16:25,202 --> 00:16:29,562 If you look at savings rates, collapsing right now, lowest since April 2008. 221 00:16:29,562 --> 00:16:41,582 And so you have this, again, this juxtaposition of this incredible wave of productivity, sort of infrastructure investment now beginning to be profitability in the AI sector. 222 00:16:41,782 --> 00:16:50,862 And then the common man doesn't seem to be able to capture that value and put it to work for themselves. 223 00:16:50,862 --> 00:16:55,242 And they're obviously struggling as inflation begins to rear its head again. 224 00:16:55,242 --> 00:17:02,922 And the prospect of the jobs market becomes a bit more tumultuous for your average person. 225 00:17:03,502 --> 00:17:03,622 Yeah. 226 00:17:03,842 --> 00:17:05,262 I mean, here's your case shape. 227 00:17:05,342 --> 00:17:08,142 And I could have picked a bunch of other charts that would have kind of shown the same thing. 228 00:17:08,622 --> 00:17:13,282 And it's a really interesting time because we've highlighted this on prior episodes and in prior newsletters. 229 00:17:13,282 --> 00:17:32,144 But there like a there kind of a damned if you do damned if you don impact here or a dynamic here where it like you know what if what if we wrong about what if what if the U S is wrong and you know the AGI pill people are wrong about where this is all going and there all this you know massive capital expenditure and increasingly debt being taken out 230 00:17:32,144 --> 00:17:41,944 Not a massive amount yet, but you can see that increasing and, you know, resources being pumped into the data center build out and the AI build out on the assumption that this is going to be this is the future of the economy. 231 00:17:42,124 --> 00:17:50,624 And if for some reason that, you know, we're off by an order of magnitude and a lot of that goes goes belly up or goes upside down, you're going to have a major problem. 232 00:17:50,624 --> 00:17:57,804 like immediately, right? In tax receipts from bottoming out equity valuations, you'll have 233 00:17:57,804 --> 00:18:02,704 public markets collapsing, you'll have issues in the credit complex. Like that's a really bad 234 00:18:02,704 --> 00:18:07,104 scenario already. And it's going to get worse if more and more resources get pumped into this thing 235 00:18:07,104 --> 00:18:10,584 over the next few years, which is going to happen, right? So if you're wrong, that's not good as the 236 00:18:10,584 --> 00:18:16,724 U.S. What if you're right, right? Like what if the AGI-pilled people, the Darios and the Sams of 237 00:18:16,724 --> 00:18:20,564 the world, which by the way, some free advice guys, if you're listening, you're definitely not, 238 00:18:20,684 --> 00:18:24,044 if you're listening, please stop going on podcasts, like, or get a PR person who can 239 00:18:24,044 --> 00:18:27,164 help you in some way, massage this narrative better. But in any case, like what if that 240 00:18:27,164 --> 00:18:31,784 narrative is right? And you know, work is work is going away. We're going to like 30% unemployment 241 00:18:31,784 --> 00:18:34,984 before we finally get to, you know, AI utopia where everything's abundant and we have the 242 00:18:34,984 --> 00:18:39,624 star Trek future. And you've already got a huge amount of the economy looking like this, right? 243 00:18:39,624 --> 00:18:43,884 You've got people with delinquent student loans and increasingly auto loans and big credit card 244 00:18:43,884 --> 00:18:49,184 debt, you know, highest since 08. Mortgages are okay now, but like what happens when like 20% 245 00:18:49,184 --> 00:18:52,524 of the white collar workforce, you know, in middle management, like it's laid off, like our mortgage 246 00:18:52,524 --> 00:18:56,704 is going to look great in that case, like, you know, probably not. So if you're right, where does 247 00:18:56,704 --> 00:19:02,884 that leave us in terms of the social reaction function to all of this? And this is increasingly 248 00:19:02,884 --> 00:19:09,484 getting discussed on various sides that we can talk about. But, you know, this is a big cognitive 249 00:19:09,484 --> 00:19:13,544 dissonance and tension that is going to bear monitoring, I think, over the coming year. 250 00:19:13,884 --> 00:19:36,484 Yeah. To your point about the narrative side of things, they really need to figure this out. And it is, I mean, we'll just keep going down the chart here because I think what, I mean, I'll skip this for now unless you want to talk about it because I think the Mamdani stuff is probably more pertinent to this particular point of conversation. 251 00:19:36,484 --> 00:19:39,304 but I mean, you highlighted this juxtaposition. 252 00:19:39,504 --> 00:19:40,704 And I think to your point, 253 00:19:40,784 --> 00:19:44,184 I think Brad Gertzner recognizes this narrative problem. 254 00:19:44,184 --> 00:19:46,004 And he was on TBPN last week, 255 00:19:46,064 --> 00:19:49,024 beginning to sort of try to counteract 256 00:19:49,024 --> 00:19:52,764 the negative PR wins that are coming AI's way 257 00:19:52,764 --> 00:19:54,684 due to the energy usage, 258 00:19:55,024 --> 00:19:59,164 the specter of mass job losses because of the technology. 259 00:19:59,164 --> 00:20:01,484 And he's thinking about ways to work 260 00:20:01,484 --> 00:20:05,744 with the Trump administration to create an initiative 261 00:20:05,744 --> 00:20:09,044 that would, quote-unquote, deliver a very tangible, profound dividend 262 00:20:09,044 --> 00:20:11,124 to communities where they're building data centers. 263 00:20:11,344 --> 00:20:16,564 And then that's juxtaposed to news from last week of Mayor Mamdani 264 00:20:16,564 --> 00:20:20,264 from New York City pledging an aggressive crackdown on bad landlords, 265 00:20:20,544 --> 00:20:23,444 saying that New York City will work to transfer ownership of tenants. 266 00:20:23,444 --> 00:20:27,604 So talking about overt private property seizure in New York 267 00:20:27,604 --> 00:20:31,124 coming after the bad landlords. 268 00:20:31,124 --> 00:20:38,224 and you can see if that's becoming popular in the largest city in the United States, 269 00:20:38,324 --> 00:20:42,224 the financial hub of the world, it's very easy to project that forward 270 00:20:42,224 --> 00:20:48,124 and have people begin to demand similar actions against AI hyperscalers 271 00:20:48,784 --> 00:20:50,424 and anybody building out that infrastructure. 272 00:20:51,144 --> 00:20:51,824 Yeah, for sure. 273 00:20:51,964 --> 00:20:55,724 Look, the Mamdani thing, it's not obviously directly about AI, 274 00:20:55,724 --> 00:20:59,024 but people hate landlords in general, 275 00:20:59,024 --> 00:21:05,984 And like that feeling can can be and often is like weaponized by leftists and communists to to get certain outcomes. 276 00:21:06,144 --> 00:21:14,724 But like people really not not not just like, you know, you're like tie dye hair, like liberal arts grad who came out of like Barnard or something. 277 00:21:14,964 --> 00:21:19,544 You know, the not to not to over stereotype, but you're you're you're you're mom, Donnie base. 278 00:21:19,544 --> 00:21:25,244 Right. That you would expect. Like, obviously, a lot of emotions can be weaponized in that base. 279 00:21:25,244 --> 00:21:28,384 But like everyone hates data centers basically right now. 280 00:21:28,384 --> 00:21:36,244 And you can argue, like, I think there's interesting evidence that that's largely like an astroturf campaign that's being encouraged by certain foreign actors. 281 00:21:36,464 --> 00:21:37,384 We don't have to get into that. 282 00:21:37,744 --> 00:21:49,644 But, you know, it's pretty clear, like, there's an increasing tide of everyone from your Barnard grad to, like, your, you know, blue collar mechanic to, like, your random white collar worker in, you know, random second tier city, right? 283 00:21:49,684 --> 00:21:52,664 Like, everyone hates data centers increasingly. 284 00:21:52,664 --> 00:22:03,884 And so I think it's interesting that you see Gershner kind of floating this idea that he's going to work with tech leaders in the White House to make sure everyone gets taken care of based on the growth of these data centers and pay a dividend. 285 00:22:04,124 --> 00:22:09,364 You know, I love the capitalist framing of the equity based framing of this. 286 00:22:09,704 --> 00:22:13,164 What is basically just like, you know, a welfare payment based on this. 287 00:22:13,504 --> 00:22:16,904 You can see him trying to get out in front of it right with his own with his own spin. 288 00:22:17,444 --> 00:22:21,884 And, you know, the question to me is like, if you're doing that, like what's going to be more popular? 289 00:22:21,884 --> 00:22:27,204 Like, well, here's like a well-structured, you know, dividend plan based on the growth of data centers. 290 00:22:27,204 --> 00:22:30,824 Or is it going to be more popular to have a demagogue who says like, you know what, we'll just take your stuff. 291 00:22:31,084 --> 00:22:35,484 Right. Like, that's like that's increasingly in the Overton window now. 292 00:22:35,564 --> 00:22:38,144 That's a conversation a lot more people are going to have and going to want to have. 293 00:22:38,624 --> 00:22:46,944 And that has real implications for, as I said, like the social fabric and also the monetary and fiscal reaction function to potentially, you know, 294 00:22:46,944 --> 00:22:50,604 if you have discontinuous and sudden like nonlinear jumps in unemployment, 295 00:22:50,884 --> 00:22:53,404 again, with the K-shaped backdrop we already have, 296 00:22:53,524 --> 00:22:56,324 like what's the response to that ultimately going to be? 297 00:22:56,464 --> 00:22:59,184 Like there's a knee-jerk response, whether, regardless of like, 298 00:22:59,184 --> 00:23:01,624 whether it's, you know, Trump in office or AOC, 299 00:23:02,124 --> 00:23:04,544 whether it wears a MAGA hat or a Che Guevara t-shirt, right? 300 00:23:04,624 --> 00:23:07,044 Like there's one kind of common reaction function, 301 00:23:07,204 --> 00:23:09,684 which is in one way or another to print the money, 302 00:23:10,044 --> 00:23:11,644 to write the checks, to write the stimmies. 303 00:23:12,124 --> 00:23:14,484 Maybe you do that by monetizing excess, 304 00:23:14,484 --> 00:23:18,804 excess surpluses that have been saved overseas by trade surplus countries that we're friendly with, 305 00:23:18,884 --> 00:23:23,084 you know, as it seems like we're trying to do right now, whatever. But this kind of 306 00:23:23,084 --> 00:23:26,444 rhetoric like leads ultimately in one direction if it gets really popular. 307 00:23:27,264 --> 00:23:33,304 Yeah. And this is, it's funny. I've been talking to Tom Mazzaro from Cathedral about this because 308 00:23:33,304 --> 00:23:38,484 we actually did some research on this as it pertains to Bitcoin mining back in the day when 309 00:23:38,484 --> 00:23:41,804 we were having problems. But I think Bitcoin miners have done a good job of sort of figuring 310 00:23:41,804 --> 00:23:48,364 out the narrative and how to position things and AI data center builders could learn a lot from 311 00:23:48,364 --> 00:23:54,444 the hard work that we put in over the decade. But it was funny to see Gersner float this idea, 312 00:23:54,444 --> 00:24:02,124 because Tom's actually been publicly talking about an Alaskan oil permanent fund structure for these 313 00:24:02,764 --> 00:24:06,124 AI companies and local communities. If you have a data center come in, and to your point, it'd be 314 00:24:06,124 --> 00:24:11,344 be very similar to a dividend. But if they are as profitable, like if you think of like Colossus 315 00:24:11,344 --> 00:24:16,644 in Memphis and how profitable that's going to be alone, if you were to set up like a permanent fund 316 00:24:16,644 --> 00:24:22,664 for the local county, maybe the state, the city, whatever it may be, and just throw some dividend 317 00:24:22,664 --> 00:24:28,544 into that and you do that over time, I think that could be a good way to curb the blowback, 318 00:24:28,664 --> 00:24:31,784 the narrative blowback that you get. And then on top of that, I think it's a lot of education 319 00:24:31,784 --> 00:24:36,564 because I do think that all this is massively beneficial 320 00:24:36,564 --> 00:24:40,244 for those who know how to utilize the tools on the back end. 321 00:24:40,284 --> 00:24:42,864 But on the front end, I think the energy infrastructure build out 322 00:24:42,864 --> 00:24:44,844 is completely necessary. 323 00:24:45,364 --> 00:24:47,024 Take AI out of the equation. 324 00:24:47,244 --> 00:24:50,344 Like our grid systems need a revamp and a bolstering, 325 00:24:50,944 --> 00:24:52,664 whether or not AI was a thing. 326 00:24:53,004 --> 00:24:55,424 And so I think reinvestment in this energy infrastructure 327 00:24:55,424 --> 00:25:00,004 and hopefully investment to a point where we just have abundant, 328 00:25:00,004 --> 00:25:06,984 rather cheap energy because the case for investing in generation assets and interconnection assets 329 00:25:06,984 --> 00:25:12,904 and transmission assets is much easier to make because the revenue is much more reliable. 330 00:25:13,564 --> 00:25:19,544 This is going to be overall good for humanity. And this is, again, going back to Dario and Sam, 331 00:25:19,864 --> 00:25:24,164 like stop going on podcasts, like let people who can actually pitch a good vision of the world 332 00:25:24,164 --> 00:25:26,544 to do the narrative crafting for you. 333 00:25:26,604 --> 00:25:30,324 Because there is an actual, legitimate, good narrative 334 00:25:30,324 --> 00:25:33,024 to be spun here from the energy generation side. 335 00:25:33,124 --> 00:25:35,704 It's just the market and the average person 336 00:25:35,704 --> 00:25:37,964 has no idea how these energy markets work in the first place. 337 00:25:38,544 --> 00:25:39,104 Yeah, for sure. 338 00:25:39,304 --> 00:25:41,124 I mean, it was, to your point, it was a narrative that worked, 339 00:25:41,264 --> 00:25:42,524 a narrative pivot that I think worked well 340 00:25:42,524 --> 00:25:44,304 for Bitcoin mining several years ago. 341 00:25:44,404 --> 00:25:46,144 And I think that one of the most powerful charts 342 00:25:46,144 --> 00:25:48,384 people can see is like China's construction 343 00:25:48,384 --> 00:25:52,084 of new megawatts of grid production relative to the US. 344 00:25:52,084 --> 00:25:54,084 I think it's a very important thing to think about 345 00:25:54,084 --> 00:25:56,084 the economy. 346 00:25:56,084 --> 00:25:58,084 I think it's a very important thing to think about 347 00:25:58,084 --> 00:26:00,084 the economy. 348 00:26:00,084 --> 00:26:02,084 Ours has effectively flatlined for I don't even know how long, 349 00:26:02,084 --> 00:26:04,084 20 years. 350 00:26:04,084 --> 00:26:17,146 And China is up to the right constantly And I think people can see that intuitively grok that not sustainable And people can understand there no such thing as a rich And so you know moving more and more of the narrative to exactly that point I think would be very helpful and is not even just a narrative win like it is legitimately true but you know we see if 351 00:26:17,186 --> 00:26:21,706 if that kind of framing can win out, you know, AI data centers, bad, 352 00:26:21,806 --> 00:26:24,966 where we're going to move to seize the means of digital production. 353 00:26:25,526 --> 00:26:28,566 New York will find out the hard way. Hopefully we can avoid it. I think, 354 00:26:28,566 --> 00:26:31,506 I think the, I don't know, 355 00:26:31,506 --> 00:26:35,166 the branding of communism and socialism is not very good right now. 356 00:26:35,326 --> 00:26:40,006 I mean, you had Hassan, whatever, Piker get chased away from. 357 00:26:40,226 --> 00:26:42,266 I think he was chased away by ice riders. 358 00:26:42,426 --> 00:26:44,546 They're like, get out of here last night. 359 00:26:44,666 --> 00:26:45,926 But I digress. 360 00:26:46,126 --> 00:26:47,126 We're going to end it on this. 361 00:26:47,306 --> 00:26:50,666 Again, I told you we would talk about Bitcoin fundamentals 362 00:26:50,666 --> 00:26:53,306 from a narrative, or not a narrative, excuse me, 363 00:26:53,486 --> 00:26:56,526 from a sort of value, fundamental value prop side, 364 00:26:56,526 --> 00:26:57,966 and then on the technical side. 365 00:26:58,146 --> 00:27:01,106 And again, I think we missed last week, 366 00:27:01,106 --> 00:27:03,306 So we weren't able to talk about Hermu's safe. 367 00:27:03,306 --> 00:27:13,806 And then on top of that, we've got incredible developments happening on the privacy and medium of exchange payments aspect of Bitcoin from Cali and the Cashew Protocol project. 368 00:27:14,346 --> 00:27:14,426 Yeah. 369 00:27:14,706 --> 00:27:20,066 I mean, I think this is, you know, we like to end on Bitcoin, but I thought it was a really poetic juxtaposition of headlines. 370 00:27:20,246 --> 00:27:25,366 I think we hit Hermu's safe a little bit on the last episode when it like just dropped that morning when we talked about it. 371 00:27:25,426 --> 00:27:27,246 But we won't have to belabor it again. 372 00:27:27,326 --> 00:27:28,526 I'm sure people have heard of it at this point. 373 00:27:28,526 --> 00:27:41,026 But you've got Iran floating this idea of an insurance operation for maritime cargo going through the Strait of Hormuz, administered by Iran with fees paid in Bitcoin, settled on Bitcoin blockchain. 374 00:27:41,686 --> 00:27:48,666 This is one potential validation of the long-running Bitcoin thesis that it's money for enemies. 375 00:27:49,186 --> 00:27:54,926 And you've got a heavily sanctioned country trying to launch what is really, frankly, like kind of a protection racket. 376 00:27:54,926 --> 00:28:09,906 Like, I don't really expect it to get off the ground, but trying to launch this with direct integration to Bitcoin, because that's the only thing that's appropriate for this very adversarial payment situation for a sanctioned country, is a perfect validation that sovereigns care, sovereigns are paying attention. 377 00:28:10,366 --> 00:28:16,106 You know, the biggest players in the world understand some of the key properties we've been talking about related to Bitcoin for a long time. 378 00:28:16,106 --> 00:28:23,546 This is not an encouragement from TFTC or 1031 for anyone to go and use Bitcoin to avoid U.S. sanctions. 379 00:28:23,726 --> 00:28:26,086 Just an observation of what that might mean. 380 00:28:26,766 --> 00:28:37,406 And again, I don't expect it to actually get off the ground in any meaningful way because just using Bitcoin is not going to stop someone from being sanctioned and from feeling the pain of U.S. sanctions for participating with Iran. 381 00:28:37,826 --> 00:28:39,906 But interesting data point on the sovereign side. 382 00:28:39,906 --> 00:28:49,086 On the technical privacy kind of 100 sat scale, like the Hormuz safe is relevant for the 1,000 plus Bitcoin scale. 383 00:28:49,206 --> 00:28:51,866 This is relevant for like the 100 sat scale, the average daily user. 384 00:28:52,806 --> 00:29:00,386 Kali's been, if you're not familiar with him, you should follow him on Twitter, Nostra everywhere, a real monster in Bitcoin and Bitcoin oriented development. 385 00:29:01,426 --> 00:29:07,606 And has been working for a while on using secure enclaves to facilitate cash amounts. 386 00:29:07,606 --> 00:29:25,106 We probably don't have time to get deeply into Cashew on the show right now, but basically an implementation of Chami Necash that has potential promise to make Bitcoin much more tractable as a medium of exchange for small payments or even increasingly large payments as well. 387 00:29:25,106 --> 00:29:41,406 Very simple, very dumb, easy to play with, easy to develop on, makes certain tradeoffs relative to using Bitcoin itself on the blockchain, but for potentially significant gains in speed, ease of integration, and various other benefits. 388 00:29:41,406 --> 00:30:07,186 I'll hand it off to you to talk about this particular development, but the high-level theme that I think this highlights is if Valley's right and this is moving in a certain direction, you could have the potential here to solve one of the major trade-offs of using Chaminikash, which is the operator of a Mint can potentially inflate supply and effectively rug participants in the Mint without much pushback from the users or a way to govern that. 389 00:30:07,186 --> 00:30:10,866 this could potentially be a solve for that. And it just pushes you one step closer to 390 00:30:10,866 --> 00:30:15,106 maybe making this very viable at scale. And so I just think it's interesting that like, 391 00:30:15,406 --> 00:30:21,586 as price, you know, as price flattens, flat lines, it's a crappy environment out there. 392 00:30:22,066 --> 00:30:26,126 We, you know, everyone's bored, everyone's going away and buying AI bottleneck stocks. 393 00:30:26,266 --> 00:30:29,846 You're seeing meaningful validation at both the sovereign level and the technical level 394 00:30:29,846 --> 00:30:35,806 for what we've been talking about in Bitcoin. And the reasons that we're here in the first place, 395 00:30:35,806 --> 00:30:41,466 Right. Like even as the bear market drags on, like you're seeing ongoing validation of everything that, you know, that we care about here. 396 00:30:42,146 --> 00:30:45,086 Yeah, completely agree. Matt and I talked about it on Friday. 397 00:30:45,466 --> 00:30:49,686 Not this specifically, but the fact that sentiment, I think I've been a Bitcoin since 2013. 398 00:30:49,686 --> 00:30:52,646 I think this sentiment is the worst since 2015. 399 00:30:52,646 --> 00:30:58,226 And historically, that is the best time to be allocating to Bitcoin, not financial advice. 400 00:30:58,226 --> 00:31:03,426 Just highlighting some pattern recognition from my days in the trenches over the years. 401 00:31:03,426 --> 00:31:06,946 but as it pertains to what Kali is referencing here 402 00:31:06,946 --> 00:31:07,886 for the Cachew Protocol, 403 00:31:08,146 --> 00:31:11,326 I think the trusted execution environments are slept on. 404 00:31:11,806 --> 00:31:14,546 We have a company in the portfolio, Maple AI, 405 00:31:15,066 --> 00:31:17,586 that we backed because of their utilization 406 00:31:17,586 --> 00:31:19,026 of trusted execution environments. 407 00:31:19,166 --> 00:31:20,426 And essentially for those who are unaware, 408 00:31:21,206 --> 00:31:25,966 these environments allow you to run code in secure enclaves. 409 00:31:26,506 --> 00:31:29,526 And so your phone, your iPhone, you're doing face ID. 410 00:31:30,166 --> 00:31:32,446 Basically, people think that a lot of people just assume 411 00:31:32,446 --> 00:31:35,806 that you're sending your biometric data to an iCloud server, 412 00:31:35,966 --> 00:31:39,366 but no, your face is a private key 413 00:31:39,366 --> 00:31:41,286 that's held on the secure enclave in your phone. 414 00:31:41,366 --> 00:31:43,126 You can run software on that. 415 00:31:43,186 --> 00:31:45,686 Not only that, but you can interact with secure enclaves 416 00:31:45,686 --> 00:31:47,386 in the cloud as well. 417 00:31:47,566 --> 00:31:49,246 And what these secure enclaves allow you to do 418 00:31:49,246 --> 00:31:53,406 is to run compute in a way that the person 419 00:31:53,406 --> 00:31:56,726 actually running the computer has no idea what's going on. 420 00:31:56,926 --> 00:31:58,846 It is a trusted execution environment. 421 00:31:59,246 --> 00:32:01,766 And what Callie is referencing here, 422 00:32:01,766 --> 00:32:04,306 I'm not going to pretend to know exactly what he's built. 423 00:32:04,646 --> 00:32:09,566 And I think he's been a bit sort of opaque about what's actually happening 424 00:32:09,566 --> 00:32:11,526 and just sort of alluding to what they're doing. 425 00:32:11,626 --> 00:32:16,686 But what I assume is that you were able to set up a Mint within a secure enclave 426 00:32:16,686 --> 00:32:18,966 using one of these trusted execution environments. 427 00:32:19,886 --> 00:32:25,826 And you can sign blinded messages for the Mint users, 428 00:32:26,766 --> 00:32:29,366 or blinded signatures, excuse me, to facilitate payments. 429 00:32:29,366 --> 00:32:45,626 And to John's point, if you can do like a reproducible build to prove that the operator of the Mint can actually control it at the end of the day, can inflate supply, can prevent people from spending, that is going to be massive. 430 00:32:45,626 --> 00:32:59,686 And I think the progress that we've seen with TEE specifically is, again, slept on, but something that I would highlight for anybody listening to pay attention to moving forward. 431 00:32:59,686 --> 00:33:05,286 particularly, I mean, we backed Maple originally, their Mutiny wallet pivoted to Maple, but we were 432 00:33:05,286 --> 00:33:12,006 very comfortable with the pivot to Maple and the focus on AI over non-custodial Bitcoin Lightning 433 00:33:12,006 --> 00:33:18,406 wallets using these trusted execution environments. Because I think as many people become more aware 434 00:33:18,406 --> 00:33:25,366 of how much data you're going to be sharing with the hyperscalers, the demand for the ability to do 435 00:33:25,366 --> 00:33:31,966 AI compute and execute a trusted execution environment that a hyperscaler doesn't have 436 00:33:31,966 --> 00:33:37,806 access to the information, the prompts or the outputs that you're putting in and getting out. 437 00:33:37,926 --> 00:33:41,746 The demand for products like that is going to increase significantly. I think actually it will 438 00:33:41,746 --> 00:33:48,366 be mandated for certain applications like legal, health, whatever it may be. And so it's really 439 00:33:48,366 --> 00:33:54,726 cool to see this being reintroduced to Bitcoin. Mutiny really led the way there many years ago 440 00:33:54,726 --> 00:33:57,706 with the non-custodial Lightning Wallets using these secure enclaves. 441 00:33:57,886 --> 00:34:00,546 And it looks like Cashew is leaning into it as well. 442 00:34:00,766 --> 00:34:05,966 And so this is going to create a very secure and private Bitcoin infrastructure, 443 00:34:06,366 --> 00:34:07,106 which is great to see. 444 00:34:07,706 --> 00:34:08,386 Yep, absolutely. 445 00:34:08,726 --> 00:34:12,506 It's a good time to be paying attention to what really matters in Bitcoin. 446 00:34:12,806 --> 00:34:14,066 And it's exactly what you'd want to see. 447 00:34:14,266 --> 00:34:16,646 When the price isn't going your way, 448 00:34:16,646 --> 00:34:19,086 the question is what's happening under the hood with fundamentals. 449 00:34:19,346 --> 00:34:23,766 And I think we're only getting positive fundamentals year on year here. 450 00:34:24,426 --> 00:34:24,506 Yeah. 451 00:34:24,506 --> 00:34:29,586 that's great hey wild times out there i'm going into summer i don't think there's going to be 452 00:34:29,586 --> 00:34:34,206 summer doldrums this year i have a hard time to believe that it's going to be a very doldrum filled 453 00:34:34,206 --> 00:34:40,806 summer i think things are just heating up proverbially pun intended john great rep as 454 00:34:40,806 --> 00:34:42,506 always we'll be back next week