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it's one of those weeks will fucking insane.

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Unfortunately.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's hard to,

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um,

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gather the thoughts with,

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I mean,

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not only the last 24 hours,

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I think the last seven days we were just talking before he had record.

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Um,

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that woman arena was murdered on the bus.

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Uh,

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we had pretty,

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I would define them as catastrophic disclosures about vaccine studies on Capitol Hill.

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The Maha hearings earlier, I think they were pretty profound.

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And then obviously, less than 24 hours ago, the assassination of Charlie Kirk, which really hits close to him.

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I didn't realize he was 31.

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I knew he was young.

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I didn't realize he was that young.

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It's incredible, right?

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his accomplishments to 31

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are

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unparalleled.

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Yeah.

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I'm recording this on 9-11.

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It's just weird vibes this week.

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I must point out that we've been

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talking about doing this for weeks, maybe

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over a month. The plan was

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just to come in and talk some good old-fashioned

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Bitcoin, right? But

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obviously we're going to have to mix in some other stuff now.

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Yeah.

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Nah.

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I mean, the Charlie stuff...

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I'm sure we'll touch on potential motives,

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all that stuff.

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But I think just in general,

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you're speaking to the profound impact he had as an individual on political

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discourse in the United States,

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particularly for younger generations.

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I mean,

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again,

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I didn't realize he was 31.

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I didn't realize he started turning point USA when he was 18.

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So he's been on this grind for 13 years and,

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and,

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Whether you liked the way he operated or not, I think it's undeniable.

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He had an incredible impact on the younger generation, particularly how they viewed politics.

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Most importantly, how to engage in political discourse.

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I think that was, I mean, obviously the worst part about this is that he was a young father with two children.

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I believe his son is two years old.

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We'll never know his father, his daughter, a couple years older.

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Both lost their father.

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But I think the way in which he was assassinated at one of these events, which have become rather famous, where he sets up a tent and engages in Socratic dialogue with people who vehemently disagree with him.

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I think that is desperately needed these days and the grace and patience and respect he brought to those conversations is something, even though I didn't agree 100 percent with everything Charlie said over his career, like I really respected the format.

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And it's a shame that he was assassinated during one of these events because it's not only an elimination of his life, but an attack on the medium itself, which as Bitcoiners, I think it's pretty close to home because we we attend a lot of these Socratic events, whether it's debates or discussions about the protocol.

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and they're very effective in terms of helping people better understand a subject or have tough

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conversations about things sure yeah i mean i would start out by just saying like

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there's a lot of people that are going to listen to this who actually followed charlie

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or like closely and i was not one of those people like i mean i was aware of them i even met him once

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uh,

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briefly.

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Um,

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and,

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uh,

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but I'll probably say some stuff where people are like,

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I've listened to a hundred hours of his stuff and I'm not one of those guys.

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I didn't,

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I didn't listen to a hundred hours of his stuff,

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but I'm aware of what he was doing.

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I was also surprised how young he was.

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Um,

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I just assumed,

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I don't know,

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you know how hard it is to become persuasive.

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Yeah.

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It's so hard to become persuasive.

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And he was,

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I mean,

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if anything,

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like that's kind of what he's famous for.

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He was like a super persuasive person.

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like unbelievably persuasive person that was like his whole thing was that he could go to these

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college campuses and he can engage with young people and you could persuade them you know or

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at least like change their mind a little bit you know even if not all the way it was like

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that talent like it's something i think about all the time like in work but mostly in like a work

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environment like sort of retail persuasion one-on-one teams of software developers stuff

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like that not like wholesale persuasion the way he does it which i can't even imagine being good at

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that. Um, it was always fun to watch the clips and stuff that would come through because I know

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how hard it is to become good at something like that. It's a very difficult thing to do. And to

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see someone that was 31, I mean, he was like, like that though. I mean, the last like three,

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I'm kind of aware of him post COVID, you know? Um, and, uh, it's an incredible talent, like, um,

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it's very rare, like very rare talent to have, especially that young, you know, I think of guys

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like Christopher Hitchens and stuff like that.

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Like he didn't strike me like that until much more advanced age.

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It was like,

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you know,

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master persuader in that,

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in that sense.

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Yeah.

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No,

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I think my exposure to Charlie Kirk is very similar to yours.

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I never tuned into his podcast or watched a whole stream of those debates

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that he would do,

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but picked up the clips and I would watch those.

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and yeah then to your point extremely persuasive and yeah the way in which he was assassinated

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is just very uh i don't know very jarring and this is just to get two two sort of jugular artery

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videos in one week of people dying in terrible ways is it's not good to watch it's not good for

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anyone to watch but um yeah i will say like one one you know whatever i have one charlie kirk story

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which is this this january i was in dc for the uh inauguration and you know we went to you know

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dozens of events and stuff like that but we went to one aptly that is um there's a political uh

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the Republican donor, Foster freeze who died, uh, recently, but, uh,

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his family still runs this event in DC, um, during the inauguration,

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it's at the, I believe it's called the museum of the Bible. Um, and, uh,

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so we were going to the museum of the Bible. It's very beautiful building,

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great museum, all this, but the event was,

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it was an odd collection of characters,

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like not the typical inauguration event that you would expect. Uh,

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Tucker Carlson was the MC. You kind of expect that. Uh,

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The guest of honor was Conor McGregor.

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We're already getting into weird pairings.

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There's a lot of media, but there weren't that many politicians at an inauguration thing, which is a little bit odd.

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And there were a lot of young men there that were there to listen.

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And what was really funny is you have Tucker, biggest media personality in the world right now.

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You have Conor McGregor, you would imagine for young men, like one of the coolest guys around, you know, UFC fighter champion, all those things. And then in the back, Charlie Kirk wasn't speaking. He was just in the back listening. And when the event, when the stage event was basically over, you know, I went over to talk to him and he was every young person there.

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you know you got tucker here you got you got uh you got uh ufc royalty over here everyone's

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mobbing him anyone under 30 which is on charlie you know and i didn't i i didn't know that much

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about him i found that is like interesting i was like huh you know you got all these like

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political celebrities athletes stuff like that and like charlie's the guy that all the 26 year old

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guys want to talk to.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, and it's,

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I think the message,

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the politics aside,

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but I think his sort of life message,

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I mean, obviously it was a devout

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and very open Christian

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and loved God,

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loved God,

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talked a lot about the Bible,

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scripture would,

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would basically verbatim

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recall lines of scripture

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during his debates.

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It was extremely impressive, but I think

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I would not be surprised

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if he was being mobbed

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by the

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young men in their 20s

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because his message was

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hopeful in an age of

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an age of

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I don't want to say despair, but

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it's tough times. We know that. That's why we're in

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Bitcoin. Well, that's a notable thing.

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From what I've seen,

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of course, and if someone's watched

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hundreds of hours of him and disagrees,

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but from what I saw and I see tons of clips,

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it's not like I was unexposed.

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Um,

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is that,

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uh,

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Charlie was generally like a white pill guy.

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He was a positive guy.

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Um,

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um,

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obviously when you're debating,

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there are like negative aspects and you have to like,

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you know,

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you know,

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when a debate,

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but like,

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I don't know,

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most of the stuff I saw was actually like hopeful,

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nice,

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respectful,

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um,

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uh,

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biblically oriented.

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Um,

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yeah,

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that's good stuff.

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That's a good person.

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Yeah.

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No, and that's what the young generation needs.

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And I'm not in any way trying to compare myself to Charlie Kirk,

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but it's the message we try to get here.

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I mean, we talk about it a lot.

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Like, get married, have kids, and do good things, be a good person,

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go to church.

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I think it's a simple message that is being well-received by the young men

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in the world today because it's the only one that seems to make sense.

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And I guess this dovetails into potential motives and all that.

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Like, it was just weird how it unfolded.

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And I sent a tweet out and I don't know whether I need to amend it, but it's like literally 30 minutes after it happened when it seemed like at that point in time that somebody in the crowd had been arrested for shooting him.

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That old man.

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And people were saying.

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Yeah.

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We're like immediately, I think some people were saying like, we know who he is.

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We know his name.

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It's not the guy or something like that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That's what I worry about.

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Particularly.

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I mean, going back to the political climate in the country right now with, I mean, everybody

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was already pretty riled up with the, uh, the death of, um, arena or the video.

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I mean, she really died last month, but the video was released, was released last week.

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political tensions high and then you just throw jet fuel on the the political tension fire

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that that is kind of notable i mean like you know when you're talking about motives there's a lot of

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things but uh i remember you know we were walking to cooper's uh here in austin texas i hope the

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freaks like that uh i'm holding down the fort here um in the in the tftc tftc studio but uh

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Parker and John and I were walking down and we were talking about arena.

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And one of the things I had told them at that moment was like,

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I find it really interesting.

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Like how much guys like Charlie Kirk have like sunk into this issue.

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I think it's probably the only time I've mentioned Charlie Kirk in a

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conversation in months,

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you know?

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And I was like,

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no,

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this isn't going away.

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And we were talking about the,

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the guy who was offering the,

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the,

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um,

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uh,

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the money for the murals and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, that, you know, this wasn't

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going to go away anytime soon. It was like a galvanizing moment. Um, and, uh, Charlie was a

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big part of that, right? Like, I mean, I think that was over the last few days, one of the,

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if not the only thing he was really focused on, uh, in his public messaging. Um, and

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I'm sure that

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when you compare something like

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the arena

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you know murder

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with something like you know George

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Floyd's death and like the aftermath of

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that and like how people

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are galvanizing

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on the right a little bit around this is like

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you might want to stop that momentum

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yeah

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yeah that's one thing

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well either stop that momentum or I mean

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if you're thinking

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extreme adversarially and i think there's nefarious actors out there want to accelerate

252
00:13:03,780 --> 00:13:11,900
really drive the country to a powder keg to divide or conquer like that that's what i i think it

253
00:13:11,900 --> 00:13:18,580
became clear to me last night like again going back to the tweet that i wrote um that i sent out

254
00:13:18,580 --> 00:13:25,400
quickly after he was initially shot i think my perspective on what is what happened yesterday

255
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:31,280
change quickly i mean it seems obvious that this was a very professional operation there's many

256
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:38,240
people out there saying oh you don't need to be uh and a green beret to to make that shot from 200

257
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:44,560
yards which may be the case however i think if you think about where he was shot in the jugular

258
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:50,360
um and the fact that there was sort of a distraction because that guy sort of held

259
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:58,380
his hands up and said it was me and it wasn't him and yeah and then the um it certainly i mean like

260
00:13:58,380 --> 00:14:03,860
sorry it does it doesn't take a green beret but uh it might like it seems like a pretty

261
00:14:03,860 --> 00:14:11,400
well executed plan uh that in a as we're recording this i don't think the shooter or at least

262
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:17,460
they've announced that the shooter's been found uh so pulling that off getting away uh

263
00:14:17,460 --> 00:14:21,280
I doesn't seem like an amateur job.

264
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:21,860
Yeah.

265
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:24,240
I don't think it's been verified yet,

266
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:28,220
but I saw Steven Crowder was sharing a screenshot,

267
00:14:28,500 --> 00:14:30,380
apparently of correspondence,

268
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,540
internal correspondence at the ATF where they,

269
00:14:35,540 --> 00:14:38,040
they found a rifle in the woods with,

270
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,420
with the clip and there was,

271
00:14:41,540 --> 00:14:44,480
I believe there's three more bullets left in it and they had Antifa,

272
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:57,285
like trans stuff written on it which Oh yeah If true not confirmed yet at this point but if that true that screams like like set up

273
00:14:57,465 --> 00:14:59,045
just trying to lean into that,

274
00:14:59,165 --> 00:15:00,305
accelerate the debate.

275
00:15:00,785 --> 00:15:04,665
And there's a lot of talk about civil war in the United States right now.

276
00:15:04,665 --> 00:15:04,865
And I,

277
00:15:05,165 --> 00:15:07,085
that is the last thing we need.

278
00:15:08,165 --> 00:15:08,925
Oh yeah.

279
00:15:09,265 --> 00:15:09,565
Yeah.

280
00:15:10,765 --> 00:15:14,325
Count me in on the non-civil war side of things.

281
00:15:14,325 --> 00:15:25,045
yes um very much so um no yeah last thing we need but like i don't know uh yeah you got that

282
00:15:25,045 --> 00:15:32,285
uh i didn't hear the crowder story about antifa whatever that doesn't i mean if you talk if you

283
00:15:32,285 --> 00:15:37,965
talk the way charlie did sorry not the way he talked but about what he talked about yeah there's

284
00:15:37,965 --> 00:15:43,785
going to be a lot of leftists in particular who are furious with you, you know, um, you

285
00:15:43,785 --> 00:15:51,525
know, anything from, you know, his, uh, love of God to, you know, the, uh, you know, sober

286
00:15:51,525 --> 00:16:00,505
understanding on, uh, uh, gender and sex to, uh, to an evolving view on Israel.

287
00:16:00,505 --> 00:16:01,525
it's like

288
00:16:01,525 --> 00:16:03,645
there's a lot of

289
00:16:03,645 --> 00:16:07,545
there's a lot of

290
00:16:07,545 --> 00:16:11,025
people that would not like a lot of those things

291
00:16:11,025 --> 00:16:11,745
yeah

292
00:16:11,745 --> 00:16:14,625
and it never really

293
00:16:14,625 --> 00:16:17,045
occurred to me but it made sense

294
00:16:17,045 --> 00:16:18,405
yesterday like he was 31

295
00:16:18,405 --> 00:16:20,865
and if you look at the

296
00:16:20,865 --> 00:16:23,165
corpus of his resume

297
00:16:23,165 --> 00:16:25,185
over the last 13 years like I would not

298
00:16:25,185 --> 00:16:25,705
like

299
00:16:25,705 --> 00:16:28,965
when it was first brought up yesterday when I saw somebody talking about it

300
00:16:28,965 --> 00:16:30,965
I was like, oh yeah, this does make sense.

301
00:16:31,105 --> 00:16:33,325
He could have been president one day if he continued.

302
00:16:34,265 --> 00:16:34,685
Oh sure.

303
00:16:34,945 --> 00:16:35,625
Down this path.

304
00:16:35,625 --> 00:16:44,365
31 year old with master persuasion skills who has a young generation like galvanized politically.

305
00:16:44,865 --> 00:16:45,465
And is a moderate.

306
00:16:46,185 --> 00:16:46,565
It's like.

307
00:16:47,185 --> 00:16:47,345
Yeah.

308
00:16:47,705 --> 00:16:49,745
That was the other surprising thing.

309
00:16:49,805 --> 00:16:53,705
Is it like, you know, I have generally right wing views.

310
00:16:53,885 --> 00:16:55,665
Some would say far right views.

311
00:16:55,665 --> 00:17:04,665
and uh i always found charlie to be pretty plain you know um like he wasn't a far right extremist

312
00:17:04,665 --> 00:17:11,545
or anything very far from it um uh i've i've met uh quite a few more extreme people including you

313
00:17:11,545 --> 00:17:19,385
know when i look in the mirror um so yeah that that side of it is is actually you know you know

314
00:17:19,385 --> 00:17:25,465
that he you know to be persuasive in that way you have to be palpable to palpable to like a lot of

315
00:17:25,465 --> 00:17:33,465
people and he was i mean he was very very popular in a non-extreme way um yeah you know

316
00:17:33,465 --> 00:17:44,305
well obviously we're less than 24 hours out um yeah fog of war uh probably need

317
00:17:44,305 --> 00:17:51,505
time for this to uh to develop before we make any any uh

318
00:17:51,505 --> 00:17:56,245
and he takes on the situation there.

319
00:17:56,905 --> 00:17:59,565
They're well-rounded with enough information,

320
00:17:59,565 --> 00:18:00,065
but yeah,

321
00:18:00,065 --> 00:18:00,325
it's,

322
00:18:00,405 --> 00:18:01,205
it stinks to me.

323
00:18:01,285 --> 00:18:02,045
That's all I'm going to say.

324
00:18:02,245 --> 00:18:02,385
Oh,

325
00:18:02,385 --> 00:18:03,325
it smells terribly.

326
00:18:03,725 --> 00:18:03,965
Yeah.

327
00:18:04,105 --> 00:18:04,345
Look,

328
00:18:04,405 --> 00:18:04,645
I mean,

329
00:18:04,645 --> 00:18:08,005
I got into it last night and I don't want to go too far off on a limb,

330
00:18:08,005 --> 00:18:16,545
but I will say I was a little bit surprised by how Charlie was talking about

331
00:18:16,545 --> 00:18:18,285
Israel in the last few weeks.

332
00:18:19,345 --> 00:18:20,805
Both with Megan Kelly.

333
00:18:20,805 --> 00:18:21,965
I saw the clips from that.

334
00:18:22,965 --> 00:18:24,865
And on his own show,

335
00:18:24,925 --> 00:18:28,885
talking about what funds leftist Marxist ideology

336
00:18:28,885 --> 00:18:29,905
in the United States.

337
00:18:32,045 --> 00:18:33,645
That type of talk gets you in trouble.

338
00:18:34,385 --> 00:18:35,965
It's gotten President's Guild before.

339
00:18:36,545 --> 00:18:37,105
Yes, it has.

340
00:18:37,525 --> 00:18:37,705
Yeah.

341
00:18:38,485 --> 00:18:38,805
It's...

342
00:18:39,925 --> 00:18:45,445
I mean, it's impossible not to talk about.

343
00:18:45,585 --> 00:18:47,525
I mean, it sticks out like a sore thumb.

344
00:18:47,525 --> 00:18:50,185
And the fact that he hadn't always been on that.

345
00:18:50,185 --> 00:18:55,685
Oh, he was one of the biggest Israel defenders for the long time.

346
00:18:55,685 --> 00:18:56,425
Was he Pentecostal?

347
00:18:56,845 --> 00:18:58,065
I'm guessing something like that.

348
00:18:58,085 --> 00:19:00,245
He's a believer in Judeo-Christian values.

349
00:19:00,565 --> 00:19:01,285
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

350
00:19:01,485 --> 00:19:02,965
Which sounds Pentecostal to me.

351
00:19:03,285 --> 00:19:03,465
Yeah.

352
00:19:03,825 --> 00:19:09,665
Which is the, you know, biblical Israel is modern day Israel sort of.

353
00:19:10,005 --> 00:19:11,845
I believe it's like Pentecostal, Southern Baptist.

354
00:19:12,605 --> 00:19:15,745
Although I don't think he was Southern Baptist, but I don't actually know.

355
00:19:16,365 --> 00:19:16,845
No.

356
00:19:17,845 --> 00:19:19,805
That would be in line with that.

357
00:19:19,805 --> 00:19:20,025
Yeah.

358
00:19:20,185 --> 00:19:27,465
Yeah, and then there was Netanyahu was tweeting about his death before it was officially announced.

359
00:19:29,245 --> 00:19:29,725
Really?

360
00:19:30,485 --> 00:19:30,825
Yeah.

361
00:19:31,325 --> 00:19:32,225
I didn't know that.

362
00:19:32,985 --> 00:19:33,225
Yeah.

363
00:19:33,385 --> 00:19:34,385
I don't follow him.

364
00:19:35,085 --> 00:19:35,965
No, I don't.

365
00:19:37,785 --> 00:19:38,445
We'll see.

366
00:19:38,685 --> 00:19:40,285
We're less than 24 hours in.

367
00:19:40,285 --> 00:19:41,105
All right, we're going to let it go.

368
00:19:41,485 --> 00:19:44,885
We're going to let it develop, but no, it stinks.

369
00:19:45,665 --> 00:19:47,105
No, it stinks like crazy.

370
00:19:47,105 --> 00:19:47,505
I'm sure,

371
00:19:47,645 --> 00:19:48,005
you know,

372
00:19:48,445 --> 00:19:51,305
you'll probably have Whitney on after me or something like that and have a

373
00:19:51,305 --> 00:19:56,065
real discussion on this of someone who actually knows how the world works in

374
00:19:56,065 --> 00:19:56,425
that way.

375
00:19:56,765 --> 00:19:57,065
Yeah.

376
00:19:57,525 --> 00:20:00,425
She is actually supposed to come on hopefully next week.

377
00:20:00,805 --> 00:20:00,945
Oh,

378
00:20:00,965 --> 00:20:01,225
nice.

379
00:20:04,185 --> 00:20:05,065
Pines are tough.

380
00:20:05,325 --> 00:20:05,465
The,

381
00:20:05,545 --> 00:20:05,985
uh,

382
00:20:05,985 --> 00:20:10,465
I guess just to wrap this up because we do have Bitcoin stuff to talk

383
00:20:10,465 --> 00:20:10,845
about.

384
00:20:11,085 --> 00:20:11,225
Sure.

385
00:20:13,325 --> 00:20:14,065
Actually not.

386
00:20:14,185 --> 00:20:14,605
Cause I mean,

387
00:20:14,605 --> 00:20:15,265
whether Charlie,

388
00:20:15,445 --> 00:20:15,685
like what,

389
00:20:15,785 --> 00:20:16,485
like the,

390
00:20:16,485 --> 00:20:22,685
political landscape right now is like it's crazy you have a bunch of like this week is crazy beyond

391
00:20:22,685 --> 00:20:30,645
that like french prime minister uh kicked out essentially god damn it these reactions i'm

392
00:20:30,645 --> 00:20:35,565
sorry i'm listening the apple reactions go on automatically yeah uh french prime minister

393
00:20:35,565 --> 00:20:42,825
kicked out japanese prime minister resigned you have been over overthrowing of an attempted

394
00:20:42,825 --> 00:20:50,665
communist coup in nepal they blew up burnt down their parliament building uh you have

395
00:20:50,665 --> 00:20:56,665
china last week with their military parade meeting with russia india brazil and the

396
00:20:56,665 --> 00:21:05,065
misfit countries if you will uh then you have terone powell and donald trump going out of their

397
00:21:05,065 --> 00:21:11,345
fiscal and monetary side of things here in the u.s getting getting more make more chaotic you had

398
00:21:11,345 --> 00:21:18,285
that bls jobs report revision come out where we have almost there are no new jobs they just lied

399
00:21:18,285 --> 00:21:25,245
about it for it's very funny to see that like that that you know i don't you know that's a lot

400
00:21:25,245 --> 00:21:30,685
of things you just mentioned i don't i don't have takes on no pretty much any of them although i will

401
00:21:30,685 --> 00:21:39,145
say on nepal on nepal though one thing i will say is that like you know uh you know congratulations

402
00:21:39,145 --> 00:21:44,505
to Jack Dorsey, it seems like every time he invents a new product, uh, you know, we had the

403
00:21:44,505 --> 00:21:49,885
Arab spring when Twitter's coming out. Now we got the uprising Nepal and like the bit chat,

404
00:21:49,985 --> 00:21:56,225
you know, uh, usage is, uh, shooting up like crazy there. It's like, he seems to be a, uh,

405
00:21:56,445 --> 00:22:04,105
agent of change himself. Yeah, that is. I mean, have you used bitch yet? I have, I was only using

406
00:22:04,105 --> 00:22:08,845
it on mesh though. So it was just me and my brother, uh, or something like that. Like I

407
00:22:08,845 --> 00:22:12,625
tried it actually at a diner down there and there's one other person they didn't say anything back to

408
00:22:12,625 --> 00:22:19,365
me so uh it what what is amazing to me is that mesh networks actually work now right that's cool

409
00:22:19,365 --> 00:22:23,765
like you know i've been following they're not following but like i was interested in it

410
00:22:23,765 --> 00:22:29,185
you know maybe seven years ago and it just wasn't very good uh but it seems like mesh networks are

411
00:22:29,185 --> 00:22:38,265
really good now yeah and i think the way that jack and cali are building out a bit chat and

412
00:22:38,265 --> 00:22:42,385
incorporate Noster and things like that to expand, not expand the range, but

413
00:22:42,385 --> 00:22:46,305
functionality, like offline, online functionality to

414
00:22:46,305 --> 00:22:49,865
help people communicate from further distances. It is

415
00:22:49,865 --> 00:22:54,525
incredible to see. In fact, in Indonesia

416
00:22:54,525 --> 00:22:57,365
there was another uprising, but Bitschat

417
00:22:57,365 --> 00:23:02,545
went up significantly there as well. People are using it on the ground.

418
00:23:02,545 --> 00:23:04,645
It makes sense, particularly if you're going to protest.

419
00:23:04,645 --> 00:23:07,085
and they're protesting

420
00:23:07,085 --> 00:23:08,865
I think in Nepal specifically I think

421
00:23:08,865 --> 00:23:11,145
the straw that broke the camel's

422
00:23:11,145 --> 00:23:12,445
back was just like basically

423
00:23:12,445 --> 00:23:14,565
blackout on

424
00:23:14,565 --> 00:23:16,925
social media so like alright download

425
00:23:16,925 --> 00:23:19,105
this app we'll communicate via mesh you can't

426
00:23:19,105 --> 00:23:20,925
shut this down. It's pretty cool

427
00:23:20,925 --> 00:23:21,605
yeah

428
00:23:21,605 --> 00:23:25,085
and I don't

429
00:23:25,085 --> 00:23:27,005
know if you remember during the Arab Spring like Twitter

430
00:23:27,005 --> 00:23:28,245
was the thing

431
00:23:28,245 --> 00:23:31,065
at the time it was

432
00:23:31,065 --> 00:23:33,105
it was very I don't know

433
00:23:33,105 --> 00:23:34,625
from an American standpoint

434
00:23:34,625 --> 00:23:37,065
in New York City at the time. It was very exciting

435
00:23:37,065 --> 00:23:38,905
to see how

436
00:23:38,905 --> 00:23:41,225
something like Twitter was being used.

437
00:23:41,325 --> 00:23:42,405
It's just funny to see that

438
00:23:42,405 --> 00:23:43,965
BitChad is now

439
00:23:43,965 --> 00:23:46,865
the Twitter of

440
00:23:46,865 --> 00:23:49,265
12 years ago,

441
00:23:49,325 --> 00:23:50,005
15 years ago.

442
00:23:51,445 --> 00:23:52,665
That's what I'm searching right now.

443
00:23:54,805 --> 00:23:55,965
Did Egypt...

444
00:23:55,965 --> 00:23:58,005
I believe Egypt sued Twitter.

445
00:23:58,865 --> 00:23:59,705
Did they? No, they didn't.

446
00:23:59,805 --> 00:24:00,325
They did not.

447
00:24:01,345 --> 00:24:02,845
The Egyptian government, along with others in the region,

448
00:24:02,845 --> 00:24:08,725
tried to block to restrict access to twitter and facebook sure in late january 2011 yeah 2011

449
00:24:08,725 --> 00:24:13,505
there we go went as far as shutting down nearly all internet and cellular data access nationwide

450
00:24:13,505 --> 00:24:21,045
for several days um the stifle connection yeah i mean it does kind of feel like that i remember

451
00:24:21,045 --> 00:24:26,845
2011 very well i mean that's when i learned about bitcoin and so like you know the arab spring the

452
00:24:26,845 --> 00:24:28,245
Occupy Wall Street stuff,

453
00:24:28,525 --> 00:24:32,185
which I actually think is 2010.

454
00:24:33,845 --> 00:24:37,225
But it's all in that little range.

455
00:24:38,685 --> 00:24:38,965
I don't know.

456
00:24:39,005 --> 00:24:39,745
I'm getting those vibes.

457
00:24:40,365 --> 00:24:40,605
Yeah.

458
00:24:41,685 --> 00:24:41,965
Yeah.

459
00:24:42,765 --> 00:24:43,105
Yeah.

460
00:24:43,885 --> 00:24:45,045
I mean, here in America,

461
00:24:45,045 --> 00:24:47,685
I think in the United States specifically,

462
00:24:47,925 --> 00:24:52,305
it does seem like we've been under a color revolution

463
00:24:52,305 --> 00:24:52,685
for something.

464
00:24:52,845 --> 00:24:54,445
I think COVID, BLM,

465
00:24:54,805 --> 00:24:55,725
like made that very clear.

466
00:24:55,725 --> 00:25:00,605
It seems like the political apparatus.

467
00:25:00,605 --> 00:25:03,465
Remember, you can't spread COVID at BLM events.

468
00:25:03,645 --> 00:25:04,345
No, you can't.

469
00:25:04,345 --> 00:25:05,465
That's the important thing.

470
00:25:06,865 --> 00:25:08,145
You can at church.

471
00:25:08,205 --> 00:25:14,105
You can spread COVID at church, but you cannot spread COVID at a BLM event.

472
00:25:14,445 --> 00:25:17,205
Yeah, you have to be able to express your discontent with.

473
00:25:17,285 --> 00:25:19,965
Or at five-star restaurants in Northern California.

474
00:25:20,205 --> 00:25:20,425
No.

475
00:25:20,565 --> 00:25:21,425
That's fine, too.

476
00:25:22,645 --> 00:25:23,325
French laundry.

477
00:25:23,325 --> 00:25:24,065
French laundry.

478
00:25:24,385 --> 00:25:25,325
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

479
00:25:25,325 --> 00:25:30,465
Yeah, but it seems for a kid and it seems that's the bring this back to Charlie Kirk.

480
00:25:30,465 --> 00:25:39,585
Like it seems like we haven't getting to a critical point of people throwing their hands up and many moderate leftist even sort of coming.

481
00:25:40,625 --> 00:25:47,805
To respect the policies of Trump, particularly tough on crime, because it's like, hey, we live in a society.

482
00:25:47,805 --> 00:25:52,925
We need to enforce the rules and the laws that have been laid out.

483
00:25:53,045 --> 00:25:53,245
We,

484
00:25:53,625 --> 00:25:56,825
and by not doing so for many years,

485
00:25:56,825 --> 00:26:01,805
like you're making places really unsafe where you can have to experience it a

486
00:26:01,805 --> 00:26:03,245
little bit to appreciate it.

487
00:26:03,245 --> 00:26:03,505
Right.

488
00:26:03,585 --> 00:26:04,225
Is like,

489
00:26:04,625 --> 00:26:05,385
you ever seen that meme?

490
00:26:05,465 --> 00:26:06,165
That's a,

491
00:26:06,225 --> 00:26:08,565
it's like the guy laying on the ground and it like,

492
00:26:08,585 --> 00:26:10,145
it's like an out of body experience.

493
00:26:10,605 --> 00:26:12,705
And the caption I saw on that was,

494
00:26:12,765 --> 00:26:13,405
you know,

495
00:26:13,445 --> 00:26:16,625
the libertarian leaving my body every time I smell pot on the street.

496
00:26:16,965 --> 00:26:17,365
Yeah.

497
00:26:17,365 --> 00:26:20,185
That basically sums up my politics at this point in life.

498
00:26:20,405 --> 00:26:25,865
I was a very dedicated libertarian when I lived in New York, 2011, 2012, that time period.

499
00:26:26,145 --> 00:26:34,865
It was also like Bloomberg's New York, and I'm making wisecracks about trying to ban big sodas, taking our choice away from – I don't even drink soda.

500
00:26:36,465 --> 00:26:39,765
But I was also younger.

501
00:26:39,765 --> 00:26:50,965
I was in my 20s, and it's very easy to grow complacent with the rule of law and law and order.

502
00:26:51,185 --> 00:26:54,765
When things are going good, it's very easy to look at that and just say,

503
00:26:54,925 --> 00:27:01,665
well, but there's these minor injustices or these minor inconveniences that maybe we should fix.

504
00:27:01,665 --> 00:27:26,885
And then you're downtown in Austin, you know, 15 years later, and there's literally dozens of criminally insane crackheads running around and you have to think about moving your office. Right. And so like you get that little bit of experience of even just a little bit of chaos, like, you know, you know, oh, we're just not going to arrest people if they steal stuff under 500 bucks. Right.

505
00:27:26,885 --> 00:27:35,825
and um you know i hate to say it but like i think basically every like baptist woman

506
00:27:35,825 --> 00:27:45,465
in 1994 that lived in waco was essentially right about the world in general you know like uh you

507
00:27:45,465 --> 00:27:50,185
know you know gateway drugs and all this stuff it's just like yeah you get a little bit of chaos

508
00:27:50,185 --> 00:27:55,365
and look what happens it doesn't feel good it doesn't feel safe of course they're going to say

509
00:27:55,365 --> 00:28:01,425
oh it's the safest time of it it's like cooking the books you know just like cpi you know the

510
00:28:01,425 --> 00:28:07,505
jobs numbers are fake cpi is fake obviously the crime statistics are fake obviously people who

511
00:28:07,505 --> 00:28:12,045
live in downtown san francisco or even downtown austin where i live know that it's worse than it

512
00:28:12,045 --> 00:28:20,245
used to be you know um clearly that is true um so you introduce just a little bit of that and it's

513
00:28:20,245 --> 00:28:27,945
easy to look at someone like trump who has this you know sort of law and order philosophy um and

514
00:28:27,945 --> 00:28:33,265
even if you're younger and you have those idealistic views you know i was i was in

515
00:28:33,265 --> 00:28:38,465
bloomberg's new york it was it was very contained safe environment i don't even remember seeing

516
00:28:38,465 --> 00:28:47,345
crimes um but these people do they see it every day yeah i'm bringing this back that's my biggest

517
00:28:47,345 --> 00:28:54,985
wary with the assassination of charlie is that we were getting to a point where even people who

518
00:28:54,985 --> 00:29:01,245
are left of center were beginning to say hey this is not like we can't have ukrainian people escaping

519
00:29:01,245 --> 00:29:08,125
wars coming to the united states for safe harbor getting stabbed in the neck on a train uh and

520
00:29:08,125 --> 00:29:14,045
yesterday's events could be used as a divide and conquer like get away from that conversation it's

521
00:29:14,045 --> 00:29:20,065
left first right like if they try to try to frame this as some trans lunatic that killed him

522
00:29:20,065 --> 00:29:29,305
some radical leftist trans uh if that comes out to be um the claim of who killed charlie

523
00:29:29,305 --> 00:29:34,085
clerk i'm gonna be very skeptical um i will as well um

524
00:29:34,085 --> 00:29:50,390
charlie more important than that i think um has the eye of more important people than that i believe yeah yeah and that what i i sent a tweet out last night like i think it a

525
00:29:50,390 --> 00:29:56,990
imperative to show relative restraint particularly in the short term um because i think that's what

526
00:29:56,990 --> 00:30:03,450
they want is some misguided backlash and confrontation um move people in the wrong

527
00:30:03,450 --> 00:30:08,890
direction get them distracted and hit them against each other you know what i think about

528
00:30:08,890 --> 00:30:20,010
the most is if there is a um you know an uptick in uh leftist uh murders uh politically motivated

529
00:30:20,010 --> 00:30:27,270
or otherwise just you know could be general chaos of murders or it could be political assassination

530
00:30:27,270 --> 00:30:32,370
type things if there's an uptick of that on the left i really worry because um imagine the

531
00:30:32,370 --> 00:30:39,390
backlash against the left little norm mcdonald for you there yeah imagine the backlash it wasn't

532
00:30:39,390 --> 00:30:48,970
you know what was his joke that's what i'm really worried about here what was the uh the uh

533
00:30:48,970 --> 00:30:58,710
bill cosby jokes it was uh it was a friend of his says um you know um the worst part about the

534
00:30:58,710 --> 00:31:06,530
bill cosby thing was the hypocrisy and uh i disagree i think it was the raping i find that

535
00:31:06,530 --> 00:31:16,430
most rapists are hypocrites um yeah well i could just do norm jokes this whole time if you want

536
00:31:16,430 --> 00:31:23,650
you know i'm sure i mean but yeah the whole like you know you already see it on msnbc cnn i mean i

537
00:31:23,650 --> 00:31:26,550
don't watch them but i see the clips and stuff like that they're like they're they're already

538
00:31:26,550 --> 00:31:31,310
worried about the backlash you know and it's like the back i mean like you don't want it or anything

539
00:31:31,310 --> 00:31:37,830
but it's like i'm kind of worrying about the the the political leftist assassinations right now

540
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:44,790
that's kind of what top of mind yeah you know in this moment yeah and that was the other just

541
00:31:44,790 --> 00:31:50,950
disheartening thing and because it is extremely nuanced because there is a radical left that

542
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:54,190
is reveling in what happened yesterday and these are demonic

543
00:31:54,190 --> 00:32:00,710
soulless people and i do believe there is a radical left that does not want to

544
00:32:00,710 --> 00:32:03,630
engage in dialogue and try to figure things out they want to

545
00:32:03,630 --> 00:32:06,650
brute force their terrible ideas and the rest and we've

546
00:32:06,650 --> 00:32:09,490
seen this throughout history i think a lot of people

547
00:32:09,490 --> 00:32:14,490
been bringing up um the spanish civil war um and franco and

548
00:32:14,490 --> 00:32:19,410
what happened there um with the attempted well the communist

549
00:32:19,410 --> 00:32:25,590
regime there before it was overthrown. I mean, they, they were killing conservative

550
00:32:25,590 --> 00:32:29,550
political opponents in Germany as well. Yeah.

551
00:32:33,050 --> 00:32:40,430
Weird times. Yeah. Uh, you know, in terms of, you know, top of my list, you know, I'm worried

552
00:32:40,430 --> 00:32:45,950
about downtown Austin where I work and the criminally insane that are, um, intentionally

553
00:32:45,950 --> 00:32:54,470
left on the street um because uh you know jose garza likes them to be uh terrorizing people in

554
00:32:54,470 --> 00:33:02,350
the street wouldn't do it if he didn't like it um and uh you know then it's maybe you know uh you

555
00:33:02,350 --> 00:33:11,530
know you know worry for some of my friends uh who are publicly you know out there uh more right-wing

556
00:33:11,530 --> 00:33:17,670
people in a world where those people are being targeted um then like seven things and then maybe

557
00:33:17,670 --> 00:33:24,550
some backlash you know that that's kind of the list of my priorities right now yeah yeah um

558
00:33:24,550 --> 00:33:39,270
yeah it's scary times but that's uh i think part of any of this is these events these tectonic

559
00:33:39,270 --> 00:33:45,190
events is uh they're meant to jar you shock you get you discombobulated and force you to make bad

560
00:33:45,190 --> 00:33:53,350
decisions where i think the best course of action is to really lean in and focus on what to do your

561
00:33:53,350 --> 00:34:00,870
thing and so like us bitcoin like i think yeah a lot of these i'm not gonna say these political

562
00:34:00,870 --> 00:34:05,550
murders will be solved by bitcoin i think we believe that bitcoin can bring about a better

563
00:34:05,550 --> 00:34:10,770
incentive framework that that takes away a lot of the uh the funding mechanisms for

564
00:34:10,770 --> 00:34:18,770
um a lot of the uh terrible stuff that's going on right now yeah i mean i think about that a lot

565
00:34:18,770 --> 00:34:25,110
because it's you have to figure out where to focus your energy and you know for me especially

566
00:34:25,110 --> 00:34:31,050
over the last couple years um because it's very easy to get too cynical i mean i've gone through

567
00:34:31,050 --> 00:34:37,170
modes of that obviously and just like obsessing over black pills and um you know my conspiratorial

568
00:34:37,170 --> 00:34:43,650
mind you know swirling and uh that's where like you know even like stoicism doesn't help me on

569
00:34:43,650 --> 00:34:51,310
that type of stuff i tried it didn't work for me you know um and uh but you know what what seems to

570
00:34:51,310 --> 00:34:56,870
have worked for me is like focusing on family focusing on church focusing on like being

571
00:34:56,870 --> 00:35:05,310
productive and you know doing stuff and i i have thought about this a little bit um is what is it

572
00:35:05,310 --> 00:35:11,950
is it jimmy's book over here uh the thank god for bitcoin yeah oh no fiat ruins everything or like

573
00:35:11,950 --> 00:35:17,350
people say bitcoin fixes everything and sometimes i'll mention that to more casual friends and like

574
00:35:17,350 --> 00:35:25,350
really fiat ruins everything like i don't know what about you know sports i'm like well yeah i

575
00:35:25,350 --> 00:35:31,530
can make the argument that fiat does ruin that and so it does and i don't think i'm over rationalizing

576
00:35:31,530 --> 00:35:38,830
it too much is that um it is a white pill and it is a very rewarding thing to you know you know see

577
00:35:38,830 --> 00:35:45,230
a chaotic world and uh things that are popping up that are not pleasant and take you away from

578
00:35:45,230 --> 00:35:50,290
uh the things that bring you joy and that you should be focusing on to be productive and

579
00:35:50,290 --> 00:35:59,450
and have purpose and things like that because it does it feels very uh good to have this outlet

580
00:35:59,450 --> 00:36:05,150
you know in the bitcoin world where i do believe that the people working on it are working on

581
00:36:05,150 --> 00:36:11,310
something that can fix a lot of a lot of these problems and that fiat does indeed as jimmy says

582
00:36:11,310 --> 00:36:19,070
in his book ruin everything and everything and that's not really too hyperbolic um and uh

583
00:36:19,070 --> 00:36:26,270
yeah so i i do i do feel what you're saying there is being productive working on bitcoin because

584
00:36:26,270 --> 00:36:34,230
i can't even imagine how i would feel productive outside of you know being civically engaged in

585
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:39,290
local or national politics if i weren't working on bitcoin i don't know what else would would

586
00:36:39,290 --> 00:36:45,150
bring me to like i'm actually doing that i mean i'm sure there are things obviously like you know

587
00:36:45,150 --> 00:36:50,590
you need people you know working in factories and farming and stuff like that i'm not saying

588
00:36:50,590 --> 00:36:55,990
there's no there's obviously a purpose in that but for my psychology it's like it feels very direct

589
00:36:55,990 --> 00:37:03,030
i would say yeah yeah it's like pertains to all that crazy shit going on the country it's been

590
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:11,270
laid bare in the last eight months like fiat was funding a lot of these insane leftist ngos and

591
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:15,990
in groups that are basically indoctrinating

592
00:37:15,990 --> 00:37:19,230
college-aid students and injecting this

593
00:37:19,230 --> 00:37:23,710
mind virus into not the masses,

594
00:37:23,870 --> 00:37:27,830
but a portion of the population that has really terrible

595
00:37:27,830 --> 00:37:31,690
worldviews and understanding of reality and how it works.

596
00:37:31,690 --> 00:37:35,450
I think that was exemplified with some of the reactions on TikTok and other

597
00:37:35,450 --> 00:37:39,170
ways. You said you wandered on the blue sky. How terrible was that yesterday?

598
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:42,290
Doesn't feel good, Marty.

599
00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:49,050
It didn't increase my, you know, love of my neighbor.

600
00:37:49,250 --> 00:37:50,310
I'll put it that way.

601
00:37:51,450 --> 00:37:53,190
So, yeah, that was rough.

602
00:37:53,770 --> 00:38:01,790
But, you know, there's, you know, I don't want to, again, I don't want to fill my head with horrific thoughts and things like that.

603
00:38:01,790 --> 00:38:07,250
But I think it's important to see how people are reacting to, you know, an event of this magnitude.

604
00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:10,350
And, yeah, it was pretty disappointing.

605
00:38:10,350 --> 00:38:13,590
yeah and here we go uh confirmed

606
00:38:13,590 --> 00:38:19,550
by the wall street journal or wall street journals didn't confirm it but is reporting

607
00:38:19,550 --> 00:38:25,830
reporting on an ammunition charlie kirk shooting engraved with transgender anti-fascist ideology

608
00:38:25,830 --> 00:38:37,030
i mean plausible doesn't doesn't seem right to me um i'm sure those people don't like him as well

609
00:38:37,030 --> 00:38:41,810
oh they definitely don't yeah but even engage in civil discourse with them but i think there's

610
00:38:41,810 --> 00:38:46,230
many people could recognize that those people probably did not like charlie kirk and if you're

611
00:38:46,230 --> 00:38:53,290
looking for a patsy to blame something on yeah yeah that would that would be probably choice

612
00:38:53,290 --> 00:38:58,630
number one yeah it's too it's like that's the other thing too which is actually optimistic

613
00:38:58,630 --> 00:39:04,150
silver lining white bullet let's get the propaganda is getting so bad uh and it does

614
00:39:04,150 --> 00:39:11,030
get easier to spot right yeah yeah i'm sure like the vaccine thing earlier this week i'm sure you

615
00:39:11,030 --> 00:39:16,130
saw the bernie sanders um doing a press conference with a bunch of doctors behind him and a sign that

616
00:39:16,130 --> 00:39:23,530
just says vaccines work it's like you're just kind of like brute force this thought that um

617
00:39:23,530 --> 00:39:31,030
any any thought that the vaccines whether it's childhood vaccines or particularly i think it's

618
00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:36,090
very obvious now the COVID vaccines, um, we're not safe and effective and we're actually

619
00:39:36,090 --> 00:39:42,070
detrimental to the health of the people who took them. Um, but like the propaganda, like

620
00:39:42,070 --> 00:39:47,230
it's just getting so bad vaccines work. It's like, you are literally, look, I have seven actors

621
00:39:47,230 --> 00:39:54,290
behind me that say so. Yeah. That's an important thing. Yeah. The performative, uh, the, the,

622
00:39:54,290 --> 00:40:00,530
the perform, you know, it reminds me of, uh, Joe Biden receiving his vaccine on the, on a,

623
00:40:00,530 --> 00:40:05,870
you know, a production set. And it was like a rubber too. I'm pretty sure if I recall correctly.

624
00:40:06,910 --> 00:40:10,530
No, I mean, actually, uh, we, we have a connection on that. It's one of your YouTube

625
00:40:10,530 --> 00:40:18,650
strikes was, um, uh, I had a doctor during COVID. Um, I got COVID. I gave it to everyone in Miami

626
00:40:18,650 --> 00:40:23,230
at one of the, yeah, to you, to all my friends. So like four days after me, all my friends are

627
00:40:23,230 --> 00:40:30,390
getting sick. And I had gone to this doctor who was a rancher in Wyoming slash doctor, great man,

628
00:40:30,530 --> 00:40:37,010
uh, Doc Woods and, uh, my, my, my other neighbor had told me like, Hey, you need to go see him.

629
00:40:37,050 --> 00:40:40,930
He's great. And I was like, dude, I'm fine. You know, like I'll write it out, but I was pretty

630
00:40:40,930 --> 00:40:47,950
sick. I didn't feel good. And so I go in and he's telling me, uh, you know, this is pre months and

631
00:40:47,950 --> 00:40:52,550
many, many months before like Peter McCullough and those guys go on Rogan and like this stuff

632
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:58,470
becomes a little bit more, uh, known is, uh, uh, Doc Woods had just said like, you know,

633
00:40:58,470 --> 00:41:00,390
you're going to take a monoclonal antibodies,

634
00:41:00,730 --> 00:41:01,490
ivermectin,

635
00:41:02,050 --> 00:41:02,430
um,

636
00:41:02,570 --> 00:41:03,030
you know,

637
00:41:03,030 --> 00:41:03,610
uh,

638
00:41:03,630 --> 00:41:04,290
vitamin D,

639
00:41:04,390 --> 00:41:04,710
all this stuff.

640
00:41:04,730 --> 00:41:05,050
And I was like,

641
00:41:05,070 --> 00:41:06,490
I don't know what any of this is.

642
00:41:06,490 --> 00:41:06,730
Like,

643
00:41:06,910 --> 00:41:10,330
can I just like not do anything and just be okay in five or 10 days?

644
00:41:10,330 --> 00:41:10,690
And he's like,

645
00:41:10,810 --> 00:41:11,050
yeah,

646
00:41:11,830 --> 00:41:13,210
just promise me you don't get the vaccine.

647
00:41:13,390 --> 00:41:15,530
I didn't really have a super strong,

648
00:41:15,630 --> 00:41:16,810
I wasn't going to get it,

649
00:41:16,810 --> 00:41:17,690
but I wasn't like,

650
00:41:18,410 --> 00:41:21,310
like if a doctor had told me I really needed to do that at that time,

651
00:41:21,410 --> 00:41:22,390
maybe I would have done it.

652
00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:22,610
Like,

653
00:41:22,630 --> 00:41:23,410
I don't really know.

654
00:41:23,490 --> 00:41:23,870
I mean,

655
00:41:23,910 --> 00:41:24,510
I'm not like,

656
00:41:24,690 --> 00:41:27,930
I wasn't thinking about it all that much,

657
00:41:27,950 --> 00:41:28,430
to be honest.

658
00:41:28,470 --> 00:41:33,970
and uh he just said all all you have to do is promise me you won't get it and that was like a

659
00:41:33,970 --> 00:41:39,710
big weird moment for me and then uh he went on your show after that because you guys got sick

660
00:41:39,710 --> 00:41:45,430
you guys look at all the horse medicine you could take everyone got better like very very quickly

661
00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:51,510
immediately yeah and so now when you watch uh when you have experiences like that and it's not just

662
00:41:51,510 --> 00:41:56,890
me it was like all of our friends like everyone basically that i talked to in miami got covid

663
00:41:56,890 --> 00:42:04,190
and uh everyone got better everyone and and i found out only later when mccullough goes on rogan

664
00:42:04,190 --> 00:42:08,870
i called woods i was like hey this guy is saying like the exact same thing you told me like four

665
00:42:08,870 --> 00:42:14,350
months ago he's like yeah dude i send him all my data like like i'm i'm doing the mccullough protocol

666
00:42:14,350 --> 00:42:20,270
i was like oh okay okay yeah i don't know how doctors communicate with each other yeah i mean

667
00:42:20,270 --> 00:42:26,070
that was a crazy time because i if i recall doc woods and i didn't even talk about the vaccine

668
00:42:26,070 --> 00:42:30,290
because i don't believe it was i don't think that was really the point i think it was about

669
00:42:30,290 --> 00:42:36,370
treatment right yeah it was about early treatment and censorship of course uh doc was being censored

670
00:42:36,370 --> 00:42:44,610
uh was until very recently um still sort of under that barrage from the i don't know what it's

671
00:42:44,610 --> 00:42:51,630
called wyoming medical board you know whatever he got fired from his hospital you know literally for

672
00:42:51,630 --> 00:42:56,510
giving out ivermectin yeah prescribing it to people didn't have a single death you know he

673
00:42:56,510 --> 00:43:06,770
was treating for the most part like like the most at risk people you know um his age very old um uh

674
00:43:06,770 --> 00:43:13,870
and no one ever died while he was there got fired a few people started dying in the same clinic

675
00:43:13,870 --> 00:43:20,130
i mentioned doc woods on my episode with jessica rose and the fact that our episode got censored

676
00:43:20,130 --> 00:43:25,030
because it's like, it was insane back then that Doc Woods,

677
00:43:25,130 --> 00:43:27,230
at the time we recorded, he was 72.

678
00:43:27,390 --> 00:43:29,310
He's probably well over 75 now.

679
00:43:30,210 --> 00:43:35,270
Humble man, good man, trying to do good by his patients.

680
00:43:35,890 --> 00:43:40,930
Hank, very soft-spoken, kind-hearted gentleman.

681
00:43:40,930 --> 00:43:45,790
And you could tell he had dedicated his life to a small community in Wyoming

682
00:43:45,790 --> 00:43:54,010
for decades and for trusting his gut and trying to treat his patients in the way he thought was

683
00:43:54,010 --> 00:44:01,810
best. He was drawn by the wayside in a sudden it's disgusting. Yeah. Unbelievable. Um, but like

684
00:44:01,810 --> 00:44:06,930
it is, I don't know. I mean, COVID it's very formative. I think for everyone that went through

685
00:44:06,930 --> 00:44:12,570
it as especially, I mean, I'm sure, you know, the kids have a, uh, you know, if you were in school

686
00:44:12,570 --> 00:44:17,950
during that time, I'm sure it's formative in a very different way about, you know, being let down by adults.

687
00:44:17,950 --> 00:44:35,895
Um uh but like as an adult like working during that time it it makes the propaganda easier to spot I think where before where I would have been more skeptical about um early claims of deception and things like that

688
00:44:35,895 --> 00:44:36,355
Um,

689
00:44:36,755 --> 00:44:39,775
now when I see Bernie Sanders with a bunch of actors behind him,

690
00:44:39,775 --> 00:44:40,195
you know,

691
00:44:40,195 --> 00:44:40,815
talking about,

692
00:44:40,875 --> 00:44:41,095
you know,

693
00:44:41,095 --> 00:44:42,415
how awesome vaccines are,

694
00:44:42,515 --> 00:44:44,775
it's a little bit easier to dismiss,

695
00:44:44,775 --> 00:44:45,395
uh,

696
00:44:45,395 --> 00:44:46,055
performative,

697
00:44:46,055 --> 00:44:46,675
uh,

698
00:44:46,995 --> 00:44:47,655
politics and,

699
00:44:47,735 --> 00:44:47,875
uh,

700
00:44:47,875 --> 00:44:48,435
performative,

701
00:44:48,435 --> 00:44:48,815
uh,

702
00:44:49,035 --> 00:44:50,395
pharmaceutical outreach.

703
00:44:51,335 --> 00:44:51,855
Yeah.

704
00:44:51,855 --> 00:45:10,955
Well, I hope this Charlie Kirk thing doesn't stop the momentum that we had earlier this week, because I think that, what was it, the Henry Ford Center study that was brought forth during the hearing, the study that Jessica Rose and Kevin McClernand, who've both been, McHernand, not McClernand, excuse me, both been on this podcast.

705
00:45:10,955 --> 00:45:16,015
I mean they basically prove it's peer review studied it's being replicated they prove that

706
00:45:16,015 --> 00:45:21,815
there's dna fragments and all the fives and vials and sv40 which uh accelerates cancer

707
00:45:21,815 --> 00:45:29,635
there's snake dna in it like it's insane yeah yeah and I mean going back to the leaning into

708
00:45:29,635 --> 00:45:34,235
the vaccines work propaganda it's like are you kidding me it's like and and that's they make it

709
00:45:34,235 --> 00:45:38,515
so binary where it's like you have to believe all vaccines work or you're alone where it's like well

710
00:45:38,515 --> 00:45:50,335
Well, no, like I think there's probably some perverse incentives in the pharmaceutical industry and within the three letter agencies of the government who are creating the mandates.

711
00:45:51,335 --> 00:45:53,615
And I think it's OK to question that.

712
00:45:53,615 --> 00:45:57,375
And we've got a lot of momentum going in that direction.

713
00:45:57,455 --> 00:46:02,075
We have a lot of momentum going in, bringing back the rule of law and making sure the people are safe.

714
00:46:02,075 --> 00:46:06,135
a lot of momentum at the border, a lot of momentum from an economic perspective

715
00:46:06,135 --> 00:46:10,015
in terms of trying to

716
00:46:10,015 --> 00:46:14,115
depoliticize the Fed if you believe it's politicized.

717
00:46:15,115 --> 00:46:16,895
And then you have this happen yesterday.

718
00:46:16,895 --> 00:46:20,275
It's chaos.

719
00:46:20,955 --> 00:46:23,175
They like chaos. Chaos breeds bad decisions.

720
00:46:23,735 --> 00:46:25,855
And we're getting a bunch of wins.

721
00:46:26,655 --> 00:46:29,915
And obviously when this happens, guess what? It was an anti-fascist

722
00:46:29,915 --> 00:46:33,515
transgender. Of course it was. That did it. It's like, oh,

723
00:46:35,015 --> 00:46:37,595
go into Portland and take care of it there.

724
00:46:38,535 --> 00:46:42,915
I mean, yeah, look, I don't, I don't, I don't know anything, but, uh,

725
00:46:42,995 --> 00:46:46,895
what I will say like to your point there is the Overton window has shifted so

726
00:46:46,895 --> 00:46:51,115
much. Like the idea of, you know, I was totally one of these people, you know,

727
00:46:51,495 --> 00:46:57,115
in 2017, like I had a lot of cowardice running through my veins, you know,

728
00:46:57,115 --> 00:47:02,795
going to implicit bias trainings and not saying what I actually thought and,

729
00:47:02,795 --> 00:47:03,115
you know,

730
00:47:03,115 --> 00:47:04,755
stuff like just being a pussy,

731
00:47:04,955 --> 00:47:05,555
you know,

732
00:47:05,555 --> 00:47:07,895
like just being a wimp about this stuff.

733
00:47:07,935 --> 00:47:10,315
I would never end to a certain extent,

734
00:47:10,315 --> 00:47:12,175
like buying into some of the brainwashing,

735
00:47:12,255 --> 00:47:12,515
you know,

736
00:47:12,515 --> 00:47:13,875
some of it's not just like me,

737
00:47:13,955 --> 00:47:14,395
you know,

738
00:47:14,415 --> 00:47:15,195
internalizing it.

739
00:47:15,875 --> 00:47:17,275
And I don't know.

740
00:47:17,275 --> 00:47:17,535
I mean,

741
00:47:17,535 --> 00:47:18,115
like I,

742
00:47:18,295 --> 00:47:20,475
I used to say something,

743
00:47:20,475 --> 00:47:20,975
uh,

744
00:47:20,975 --> 00:47:21,335
about,

745
00:47:21,535 --> 00:47:21,815
uh,

746
00:47:21,995 --> 00:47:23,255
like Bitcoin and censorship,

747
00:47:23,255 --> 00:47:23,815
right.

748
00:47:23,815 --> 00:47:27,135
which is I would talk to people and I still believe this to be true,

749
00:47:27,135 --> 00:47:29,595
but there are other aspects of, you know, I'll say what I used to say.

750
00:47:29,795 --> 00:47:32,715
I used to say, um, you know, one of the reasons, you know,

751
00:47:33,015 --> 00:47:35,715
cold storage with keys that you control is so important, right.

752
00:47:36,295 --> 00:47:38,815
Is the censorship in the world, you know,

753
00:47:38,855 --> 00:47:43,335
being able to say what you want to say without, um, uh, you know,

754
00:47:43,335 --> 00:47:45,955
negative consequences, you know, just freedom of speech type things,

755
00:47:45,955 --> 00:47:47,775
being able to work on what you want to work on,

756
00:47:47,835 --> 00:47:51,995
being able to associate with who you want to associate with, right.

757
00:47:51,995 --> 00:47:54,355
without having your bank account shut down or something like that.

758
00:47:54,775 --> 00:47:57,455
Do you think that's going to get better or worse?

759
00:47:57,935 --> 00:47:58,375
Right.

760
00:47:59,795 --> 00:48:01,095
Unanimous worse.

761
00:48:02,635 --> 00:48:04,295
I agree with that still.

762
00:48:04,775 --> 00:48:05,215
However,

763
00:48:05,215 --> 00:48:09,395
I'm starting to see more glimmers of hope in the last two years than ever

764
00:48:09,395 --> 00:48:12,895
that like this can be avoided because Bitcoin is actually working.

765
00:48:13,035 --> 00:48:14,575
The culture is actually changing.

766
00:48:15,335 --> 00:48:17,395
I still think you have to be extremely vigilant.

767
00:48:17,515 --> 00:48:17,975
Everything I said,

768
00:48:18,035 --> 00:48:19,215
if you're in the UK right now,

769
00:48:19,215 --> 00:48:22,315
you probably feel that darkness more than you ever have,

770
00:48:22,315 --> 00:48:22,875
you know,

771
00:48:22,875 --> 00:48:23,635
right this minute,

772
00:48:23,635 --> 00:48:25,015
the way I was feeling,

773
00:48:25,015 --> 00:48:25,395
you know,

774
00:48:25,395 --> 00:48:26,535
three years ago or so.

775
00:48:26,675 --> 00:48:28,475
Do you think this is going to get better or worse?

776
00:48:28,475 --> 00:48:30,015
And everyone's saying worse,

777
00:48:30,015 --> 00:48:31,015
right?

778
00:48:31,055 --> 00:48:31,755
In the UK,

779
00:48:31,755 --> 00:48:32,975
you're probably right there.

780
00:48:33,135 --> 00:48:34,335
I'm starting to see better.

781
00:48:34,635 --> 00:48:36,235
And I think that guys like Charlie,

782
00:48:36,235 --> 00:48:36,515
I mean,

783
00:48:36,515 --> 00:48:39,535
like there's a whole group of people have like shifted the over Overton window.

784
00:48:39,615 --> 00:48:40,755
There's Bitcoiners that have done it.

785
00:48:40,755 --> 00:48:42,835
There's people in DC and,

786
00:48:42,995 --> 00:48:43,115
you know,

787
00:48:43,115 --> 00:48:46,855
stuff like that that have done it is that I don't think there's nearly as much

788
00:48:46,855 --> 00:48:47,695
cowardice anymore.

789
00:48:47,695 --> 00:48:51,255
I don't think it's as easy to do that.

790
00:48:51,735 --> 00:48:56,535
And so basically, I think we've made a lot of progress,

791
00:48:56,535 --> 00:48:58,055
and we succeeded in the last three years.

792
00:48:58,795 --> 00:49:01,135
Yeah, and not only is the Overton window shifted,

793
00:49:01,215 --> 00:49:04,675
but it is being affected as it pertains to vaccines.

794
00:49:04,895 --> 00:49:09,475
I think people have been making enough noise

795
00:49:09,475 --> 00:49:14,015
and highlighting a lot of doing the hard work to find the data,

796
00:49:14,155 --> 00:49:17,115
to surface it, to talk about it, to make it known.

797
00:49:17,115 --> 00:49:31,095
And then you have something like happened in Florida last week where the Surgeon General comes out and says, hey, it's not within the ethics of the field of medicine to coerce anybody to take anything against their will.

798
00:49:31,295 --> 00:49:34,475
So vaccine mandates in the state of Florida are over.

799
00:49:34,635 --> 00:49:39,855
We're not saying don't get the vaccines, but who are we as the state to coerce you to do so?

800
00:49:40,055 --> 00:49:46,375
That is a massive vibe shift from only two years ago.

801
00:49:46,375 --> 00:49:48,855
have you ever read the original Hippocratic Oath?

802
00:49:49,755 --> 00:49:50,695
It's been a while.

803
00:49:50,995 --> 00:49:51,875
It's been a while,

804
00:49:51,955 --> 00:49:52,395
but yeah,

805
00:49:52,475 --> 00:49:53,055
it's,

806
00:49:53,115 --> 00:49:53,455
it's,

807
00:49:53,575 --> 00:49:53,855
uh,

808
00:49:53,855 --> 00:49:54,575
it's a fun one.

809
00:49:54,675 --> 00:49:55,735
It doesn't talk about vaccines.

810
00:49:55,995 --> 00:49:56,195
Yeah.

811
00:49:56,195 --> 00:49:56,955
The do no harm,

812
00:49:57,035 --> 00:49:57,555
you know,

813
00:49:57,555 --> 00:49:57,915
uh,

814
00:49:57,915 --> 00:49:58,375
type thing.

815
00:49:58,535 --> 00:49:58,975
Yeah.

816
00:49:59,775 --> 00:50:00,175
Look,

817
00:50:00,235 --> 00:50:01,815
I hope I'm not falling for like some,

818
00:50:01,815 --> 00:50:02,675
you know,

819
00:50:03,275 --> 00:50:03,635
uh,

820
00:50:03,635 --> 00:50:04,935
Twitter real,

821
00:50:05,115 --> 00:50:05,595
you know,

822
00:50:05,695 --> 00:50:06,135
you know,

823
00:50:06,135 --> 00:50:06,975
scam on this,

824
00:50:06,975 --> 00:50:07,515
but like,

825
00:50:07,515 --> 00:50:15,655
I'm pretty sure two of the things in the original Hippocratic Oath are you can also never perform an abortion.

826
00:50:15,655 --> 00:50:20,115
and you cannot assist in suicide.

827
00:50:20,995 --> 00:50:21,375
Really?

828
00:50:21,755 --> 00:50:22,055
Yeah.

829
00:50:22,415 --> 00:50:23,915
It's not in the current one.

830
00:50:24,415 --> 00:50:26,895
Yeah, well, those are forms of murder.

831
00:50:27,335 --> 00:50:28,135
Yes, of course.

832
00:50:28,335 --> 00:50:28,435
Yeah.

833
00:50:29,895 --> 00:50:31,235
Yeah, so it makes sense.

834
00:50:31,435 --> 00:50:33,195
This is injecting people with snake DNA,

835
00:50:33,535 --> 00:50:35,615
but what do I know about snake DNA either?

836
00:50:36,075 --> 00:50:38,155
So maybe it's really good for you.

837
00:50:39,155 --> 00:50:40,615
But then on the Israel front too,

838
00:50:40,615 --> 00:50:43,055
not only was Charlie talking differently

839
00:50:43,055 --> 00:50:46,095
about Israeli influence.

840
00:50:46,615 --> 00:50:47,055
Oh, sure.

841
00:50:47,255 --> 00:50:50,535
In U.S. politics, we had Tucker on stage

842
00:50:50,535 --> 00:50:54,775
with David Sachs and David Steberg two nights ago.

843
00:50:54,935 --> 00:50:57,935
And David Sachs came out and stood up for Tucker.

844
00:50:58,095 --> 00:51:00,935
It was like, Tucker doesn't have an anti-Semitic bone

845
00:51:00,935 --> 00:51:01,775
in his body.

846
00:51:02,235 --> 00:51:06,415
Israel is a government, a state with an intelligence apparatus.

847
00:51:06,875 --> 00:51:10,415
And they do engage in statecraft.

848
00:51:10,415 --> 00:51:15,155
It is okay to be critical of the Israeli government, where for the longest time it's been conflated.

849
00:51:16,575 --> 00:51:23,435
If you critique Israel and its potential influence over the United States, you are an anti-Semite.

850
00:51:23,635 --> 00:51:26,135
Yeah, what a bunch of losers that say stuff like that.

851
00:51:27,355 --> 00:51:28,435
Absolutely insane.

852
00:51:29,075 --> 00:51:29,175
Yeah.

853
00:51:33,575 --> 00:51:34,415
But, you know...

854
00:51:35,495 --> 00:51:36,575
Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

855
00:51:36,575 --> 00:51:38,095
I was going to say, I said it on a podcast.

856
00:51:38,095 --> 00:51:52,095
I went on the Coffee and Mike podcast, but it's like very obviously insane that we have like IPAC and Israel does have very obvious influence over U.S. politicians and policy.

857
00:51:52,095 --> 00:51:52,775
Excuse me.

858
00:51:53,115 --> 00:51:58,015
Ted Cruz convinced me that IPAC is fine, right?

859
00:51:58,435 --> 00:51:59,215
It's not weird.

860
00:52:00,275 --> 00:52:01,135
At all.

861
00:52:01,795 --> 00:52:02,775
It's your senator, sir.

862
00:52:03,155 --> 00:52:04,095
I know, right?

863
00:52:04,395 --> 00:52:06,155
I generally like Ted Cruz.

864
00:52:06,155 --> 00:52:07,595
I thought that was crazy.

865
00:52:08,095 --> 00:52:12,315
Um, it was shocking to hear stated that way.

866
00:52:12,375 --> 00:52:13,675
I don't follow politicians.

867
00:52:13,675 --> 00:52:17,075
Like I, I do, I don't know every position that every politician has.

868
00:52:17,155 --> 00:52:22,075
I've actually talked to Ted Cruz about Bitcoin before and I found him to be very bright,

869
00:52:22,215 --> 00:52:22,775
you know?

870
00:52:22,855 --> 00:52:28,055
And so, you know, and not that everyone agrees with me on most things.

871
00:52:28,055 --> 00:52:35,155
Uh, it was the logic of his, uh, conversation with Tucker on that was seemed very strained.

872
00:52:35,155 --> 00:52:41,635
uh i mean just even the body language of that yeah back and forth was like this is weird yeah

873
00:52:41,635 --> 00:52:45,855
yeah it didn't feel good especially you know someone who i'd had like a couple interactions

874
00:52:45,855 --> 00:52:51,475
with where i was like oh this guy's smart yeah like he seems with it and then i i just didn't

875
00:52:51,475 --> 00:52:57,675
know his views on this stuff and it uh it surprised me to say at least and i found it to be incredibly

876
00:52:57,675 --> 00:53:02,135
unconvincing i've heard i've heard him be persuasive before he was not persuasive there

877
00:53:02,135 --> 00:53:07,415
no yeah and i guess it's a good like good theme they're like over to window shifting on bitcoin

878
00:53:07,415 --> 00:53:14,935
too like i think oh yeah the over went to windows shifted dramatically and maybe this is we got to

879
00:53:14,935 --> 00:53:18,635
find a natural segue to talk about what yeah we do need to talk about but let's do it yeah yeah

880
00:53:18,635 --> 00:53:22,855
i talked to a lot of politicians about bitcoin that's changed a lot yeah well like let's talk

881
00:53:22,855 --> 00:53:27,575
about through the years crazy internet money a bunch of computer nerds uh drug money silk road

882
00:53:27,575 --> 00:53:32,355
degenerate gambler speculators trying to make a quick buck mount gox era

883
00:53:32,355 --> 00:53:40,035
continued 2017 2020 then obviously microstrategy comes out etfs announced

884
00:53:40,035 --> 00:53:47,515
bitcoin strategic reserve executive order we're at this point and people are talking about bitcoin

885
00:53:47,515 --> 00:53:52,195
as a serious reserve asset that should be implemented in everybody's portfolio from

886
00:53:52,195 --> 00:53:57,035
the individual up to the pension the nation state whatever it may be it seems like that's becoming

887
00:53:57,035 --> 00:54:00,055
sort of table stakes now.

888
00:54:00,175 --> 00:54:01,695
It's becoming recognized as table stakes.

889
00:54:01,815 --> 00:54:03,415
If you don't have exposure to Bitcoin, you're an idiot.

890
00:54:04,535 --> 00:54:06,775
But Overton window

891
00:54:06,775 --> 00:54:09,795
still needs some of a bit because it's like, hey, it's just a reserve asset.

892
00:54:09,915 --> 00:54:12,115
It doesn't compete with the dollar. It's good to have.

893
00:54:12,675 --> 00:54:14,275
And we both know

894
00:54:14,275 --> 00:54:17,015
that these monies compete and

895
00:54:17,015 --> 00:54:19,715
ultimately Bitcoin will win out.

896
00:54:19,715 --> 00:54:22,995
And the window is just shifting towards that

897
00:54:22,995 --> 00:54:23,995
slowly but surely.

898
00:54:23,995 --> 00:54:29,235
yeah i mean it bears like repeating some of the things you just said too is that especially for

899
00:54:29,235 --> 00:54:35,475
americans you know i am one and therefore i i have the best perspective of what this has looked

900
00:54:35,475 --> 00:54:42,615
like in america over the years and you know i know it's not particularly hip to you know you know

901
00:54:42,615 --> 00:54:49,015
shill for you know the government and stuff like that but for the most part with some very egregious

902
00:54:49,015 --> 00:54:56,075
exceptions, but for the most part, honestly, it's been nothing but green lights, right? Things are

903
00:54:56,075 --> 00:55:03,795
going our way, you know? Um, and to me, that's one, it's a little bit surprising, but it's also

904
00:55:03,795 --> 00:55:08,855
worth pointing out like, you know, even, you know, the connection to what we talked about before that

905
00:55:08,855 --> 00:55:13,195
Overton window doesn't shift without like brave people, you know, without brave people actually

906
00:55:13,195 --> 00:55:17,735
taking action and doing things and making sure that it goes that way. It doesn't happen by

907
00:55:17,735 --> 00:55:23,055
accident and it's not a coincidence that um things have gone well here i mean heck i'm sitting in

908
00:55:23,055 --> 00:55:29,215
texas what do we have somewhere like five gigawatts mining bitcoin in the state of texas

909
00:55:29,215 --> 00:55:33,915
right now something like that three to five somewhere in there that's 30 in the network

910
00:55:33,915 --> 00:55:40,335
it's nuts that's insane i mean go back seven eight years you know i think it's probably the

911
00:55:40,335 --> 00:55:46,655
first time i was on your podcast you know uh or that's not six years seven years the idea of that

912
00:55:46,655 --> 00:55:51,195
would have been crazy and you would have come up with all these reasons that governments wouldn't

913
00:55:51,195 --> 00:55:55,255
allow that to happen that the local government the state government the federal government would

914
00:55:55,255 --> 00:55:59,455
get in your way and then i'm not saying not to be adversarial thinking like i'm not trying to

915
00:55:59,455 --> 00:56:05,235
you know again it's not cool to you know shill but it has been kind of green lights you know we're

916
00:56:05,235 --> 00:56:11,695
having very advanced talks uh about not whether the united states government should own bitcoin

917
00:56:11,695 --> 00:56:14,495
but how they should procure it and how much,

918
00:56:14,615 --> 00:56:14,915
right.

919
00:56:15,235 --> 00:56:17,575
It's not even really a question of whether they should have it.

920
00:56:17,575 --> 00:56:18,495
Like that's already,

921
00:56:18,675 --> 00:56:19,435
you know,

922
00:56:19,455 --> 00:56:23,535
in the executive order and we have legislation that looks to be very popular,

923
00:56:23,535 --> 00:56:24,255
uh,

924
00:56:24,255 --> 00:56:25,535
working on that exact thing.

925
00:56:25,795 --> 00:56:26,235
So,

926
00:56:26,235 --> 00:56:27,675
um,

927
00:56:28,735 --> 00:56:29,175
honestly,

928
00:56:29,415 --> 00:56:31,275
it's hard to embody my,

929
00:56:31,375 --> 00:56:31,615
you know,

930
00:56:31,715 --> 00:56:34,575
say 2014 self thinking about Bitcoin and,

931
00:56:34,715 --> 00:56:34,815
you know,

932
00:56:34,815 --> 00:56:37,195
where Mount Gox goes down and all this type of stuff,

933
00:56:37,195 --> 00:56:38,035
you know,

934
00:56:38,035 --> 00:56:38,435
happens,

935
00:56:38,615 --> 00:56:38,835
you know,

936
00:56:38,835 --> 00:56:39,915
it's kind of a dark time.

937
00:56:40,555 --> 00:56:40,875
Um,

938
00:56:40,875 --> 00:56:41,115
um,

939
00:56:41,695 --> 00:56:43,155
you know, it's been pretty nice.

940
00:56:44,015 --> 00:56:45,275
It's gone pretty well.

941
00:56:45,815 --> 00:56:46,375
Yeah.

942
00:56:47,115 --> 00:56:52,235
And the, uh, the resistance has not been particularly effective or strong.

943
00:56:52,675 --> 00:56:58,155
Um, the, the, the one I see the most right now that like some people hail is,

944
00:56:58,235 --> 00:57:02,455
you know, uh, is progress on the Bitcoin front that I really disagree with is

945
00:57:02,455 --> 00:57:04,035
the stable coin side of things.

946
00:57:04,035 --> 00:57:06,995
I don't think that that's particularly helpful for Bitcoin.

947
00:57:07,555 --> 00:57:09,735
Um, I think, I think, I don't know.

948
00:57:09,875 --> 00:57:10,775
I'm neutral.

949
00:57:10,775 --> 00:57:23,675
on them i'm like as a bitcoiner as an investor as somebody who would like to see uh incumbents who

950
00:57:23,675 --> 00:57:30,895
have acted what i would deem to be nefariously in the past uh would like to see them uh stumble

951
00:57:30,895 --> 00:57:38,955
like lean into stable coins like go for it i do not care like you're you're totally agree with

952
00:57:38,955 --> 00:57:44,875
you there you're on you're you're focusing on the wrong thing i find it to be a tragic lack of focus

953
00:57:44,875 --> 00:57:48,595
yeah don't interrupt the enemy when they're making mistakes that's that's my perspective

954
00:57:48,595 --> 00:57:55,735
on stable coins and the people um implementing them sure no yeah i mean i get that i think the

955
00:57:55,735 --> 00:57:59,895
way that you particularly the way the u.s is thinking about stable coins is like very funny

956
00:57:59,895 --> 00:58:05,415
to me it where they're like no it just needs to be regulated exactly like a bank you know you know

957
00:58:05,415 --> 00:58:05,935
the issuer,

958
00:58:06,095 --> 00:58:06,315
you know,

959
00:58:06,395 --> 00:58:06,755
it's like,

960
00:58:06,755 --> 00:58:07,315
that's what you're getting at.

961
00:58:07,415 --> 00:58:07,655
It's like,

962
00:58:07,715 --> 00:58:07,895
Oh,

963
00:58:07,935 --> 00:58:13,495
so just like ruin was stable coins are good at like the whole point of

964
00:58:13,495 --> 00:58:14,015
stable coins,

965
00:58:14,095 --> 00:58:14,275
you know,

966
00:58:14,275 --> 00:58:14,475
for,

967
00:58:14,475 --> 00:58:15,155
uh,

968
00:58:15,155 --> 00:58:16,595
getting around capital controls,

969
00:58:16,635 --> 00:58:16,915
you know,

970
00:58:16,915 --> 00:58:18,935
immoral capital controls in many cases.

971
00:58:19,115 --> 00:58:19,515
Um,

972
00:58:19,975 --> 00:58:20,475
uh,

973
00:58:20,575 --> 00:58:20,895
you know,

974
00:58:21,355 --> 00:58:21,615
but,

975
00:58:21,775 --> 00:58:21,975
uh,

976
00:58:21,975 --> 00:58:22,335
it's like,

977
00:58:22,375 --> 00:58:22,635
okay,

978
00:58:22,735 --> 00:58:23,475
well then it's not,

979
00:58:23,575 --> 00:58:24,735
you're just not accomplished.

980
00:58:24,815 --> 00:58:26,535
It's like a tragic lack of focus.

981
00:58:26,535 --> 00:58:26,855
It's like,

982
00:58:27,055 --> 00:58:27,315
you know,

983
00:58:27,375 --> 00:58:29,375
we're doing this exciting stuff over here,

984
00:58:29,375 --> 00:58:31,855
but to your point as it serves as a,

985
00:58:31,855 --> 00:58:32,215
uh,

986
00:58:32,215 --> 00:58:33,155
useful distraction,

987
00:58:33,155 --> 00:58:33,675
like,

988
00:58:33,775 --> 00:58:33,935
sure.

989
00:58:34,255 --> 00:58:34,435
Yeah,

990
00:58:34,435 --> 00:58:34,715
whatever.

991
00:58:34,715 --> 00:58:43,515
it's yeah and it's funny like i think the genius act i mean you probably understand what way better

992
00:58:43,515 --> 00:58:48,395
than i did but it seems like circle was pissed that tether was winning all this business and

993
00:58:48,395 --> 00:58:54,515
crushing them and so they and a couple others who were also not happy with uh tether eating their

994
00:58:54,515 --> 00:58:57,875
lunch went to the government said you need to regulate this it's like okay be careful what you

995
00:58:57,875 --> 00:59:04,255
wish for because if the regulation it's a regulatory mode that you so wish for turns out to

996
00:59:04,255 --> 00:59:06,315
be too restrictive for the end user.

997
00:59:06,315 --> 00:59:09,155
Like you're, you're not going to have a market at the end of the day.

998
00:59:09,195 --> 00:59:11,215
It's like, do you know why people use tether?

999
00:59:11,235 --> 00:59:15,575
It's not like getting rid of them all of a sudden because you have this, this

1000
00:59:15,575 --> 00:59:18,795
thing, it's like, you think they're going to give you a license to

1001
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:24,360
spread dollars around the world while jp morgan like twiddles their thumbs over here that they're

1002
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:28,760
not going to be like well why can't we do that you know like they would do it if they were allowed

1003
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:34,260
if they could you know disrupt south korean you know sovereignty and allow you to you know

1004
00:59:34,260 --> 00:59:39,340
dollarize that economy and like get money out and then like of course they would do it you know you

1005
00:59:39,340 --> 00:59:44,640
think just because you get rid of tether that all of a sudden like you're gonna be the it's so stupid

1006
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:52,480
yeah and it is uh and like this i mean and i don't i'm not saying i would want companies like

1007
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:56,700
this to fail like stripe the collison twins like leaning in it's like how are you guys

1008
00:59:56,700 --> 01:00:01,280
how are you guys missing like we're gonna build our own l1 blockchain for payments and stable

1009
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:07,100
coins it's like everyone goes through the ride in their own way right i think we talked about it

1010
01:00:07,100 --> 01:00:12,560
but there's one of the i believe it was john collison was on the all in podcast earlier this

1011
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:18,300
year and he still doesn't understand the lightning network and other second layers exist on bitcoin

1012
01:00:18,300 --> 01:00:25,720
yeah i don't you know i'm hoping that zap right can like show people that like we've actually we

1013
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:31,900
obviously you know it's sorry i've worked at zap right right and uh we're doing bitcoin payments

1014
01:00:31,900 --> 01:00:39,780
and we talk to these companies um i haven't talked to the colson brothers about it um

1015
01:00:39,780 --> 01:00:45,380
but um we do talk to stripe and we talk to square and we talk to the fiat processors and we talk to

1016
01:00:45,380 --> 01:00:51,240
the big marketplaces and things like that and like what i would say is that like what you're saying

1017
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:58,020
about a lack of knowledge about how bitcoin is different from 2015 you saw this in the mining

1018
01:00:58,020 --> 01:01:04,440
space here's a good uh comparison you remember when people first started going out to do like

1019
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:09,300
the flare mining and none of it worked and it kind of poisoned the well for a long time yeah

1020
01:01:09,300 --> 01:01:13,700
I was there. And then, and then it started working, but like the people that had been burned

1021
01:01:13,700 --> 01:01:18,220
had a really nasty taste in their mouth about it. And they were just kind of stuck in what that

1022
01:01:18,220 --> 01:01:23,640
looked like in 2017. But in 2021, it looked very, very different, right? Well, a lot of these

1023
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:29,380
marketplaces, a lot of these businesses, a lot of these payment processors, they were doing Bitcoin

1024
01:01:29,380 --> 01:01:35,920
stuff in 2015. They were, you know, uh, Dell was accepting Bitcoin. Microsoft was accepting Bitcoin.

1025
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:42,860
patreon was accepting bitcoin uh uh uh you know uh shopify was announcing you know all these like

1026
01:01:42,860 --> 01:01:51,420
different and then it didn't really go anywhere right um and it was clunky and the tools weren't

1027
01:01:51,420 --> 01:01:57,420
that good and the wallets weren't that great and the support wasn't that great and then they just

1028
01:01:57,420 --> 01:02:04,000
kind of gave up on it right or they just let it sort of die on the vine right and so just like

1029
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:11,300
those off-grid miners had this really bad taste in their mouth, I would say it's a little bit less

1030
01:02:11,300 --> 01:02:14,680
than that. They don't feel particularly burned because they didn't invest that much capital into

1031
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:21,660
the whole process, but they do have a negative view of it as being unuseful at the very most.

1032
01:02:21,820 --> 01:02:28,700
And so a lot of what we work on at ZapRite is talking to these companies and making them see

1033
01:02:28,700 --> 01:02:35,820
that like, hey, a lot's changed in the last, you know, 10, 6, 2 years. When it pertains to the

1034
01:02:35,820 --> 01:02:42,120
Lightning Network, its support, its reliability, its, you know, accessibility, its liquidity,

1035
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:48,880
you know, all those things that, or that it exists at all, right? And it's not just

1036
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:54,120
on-chain transactions that take 10 minutes or 30 minutes or 50 minutes to settle. And so,

1037
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:56,960
we're talking to those people all the time.

1038
01:02:58,580 --> 01:03:00,420
I think for Stripe and

1039
01:03:00,420 --> 01:03:02,860
places like that, they've gone back and forth a lot.

1040
01:03:04,620 --> 01:03:06,280
I think right now, they're

1041
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:09,200
seeing this thing that they don't have any previous

1042
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,040
negative views on. They're like, okay, we'll give that a shot.

1043
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:14,140
See how it works. Good luck.

1044
01:03:14,940 --> 01:03:18,420
It seems like the whole stablecoin landscape

1045
01:03:18,420 --> 01:03:21,460
is very confused because it looks like

1046
01:03:21,460 --> 01:03:26,300
they're reintroducing the double coincidence of one's problem with their sort of sideload stable

1047
01:03:26,300 --> 01:03:30,540
coin. Sure. Probably make sure there's bridges and all these mechanisms, but it just complicates

1048
01:03:30,540 --> 01:03:35,760
it adds cost and UX friction that. Yeah. Once you start getting into atomic swaps and all this,

1049
01:03:35,860 --> 01:03:40,620
it's like, what are we doing guys? Like, just a really easy thing to do over here. Um, I don't

1050
01:03:40,620 --> 01:03:45,400
know. I'm a simple man, Marty, you know, um, I've been building products, you know, on the internet

1051
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:53,080
for a long time here and i try to avoid complication wherever possible yeah well i mean just let's do

1052
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:57,560
a comparison too i think you're in a very unique position as that right sort of being in the middle

1053
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:02,880
of all these companies so you compare stripes strategy as it pertains to bitcoin to somebody

1054
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:08,060
like square which i know you guys have worked closely but you've implemented it into um the

1055
01:04:08,060 --> 01:04:14,280
square processor into separate as an option and it seems like their team's pretty engaged in

1056
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:16,720
in bitcoin and like you look at block as a

1057
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:25,380
a parent company of many um subsidiaries that are focused on different niche markets uh square

1058
01:04:25,380 --> 01:04:31,660
point of sale for small medium-sized businesses cash app retail consumer app proto now the mining

1059
01:04:31,660 --> 01:04:39,500
thing like they seem pretty all in on bitcoin and have taken a long view i believe cash app launched

1060
01:04:39,500 --> 01:04:46,060
buy bitcoin at the end of 2017 so right around then yeah yeah yeah going on eight years now and

1061
01:04:46,060 --> 01:04:51,340
slowly but surely maturing with bitcoin building out their product suite it's been pretty impressive

1062
01:04:51,340 --> 01:04:57,480
to see them do that oh it's unbelievable i know that like there there's attack vectors even from

1063
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:04,700
the bitcoin side on companies like square block cash app um i don't know it looks pretty good to

1064
01:05:04,700 --> 01:05:10,360
me. They built unique things. They built different things. It's not exactly what I would have built.

1065
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:16,820
I see it as all good in general. People can buy Bitcoin. People can sell Bitcoin. People can store

1066
01:05:16,820 --> 01:05:21,760
Bitcoin. People can transact in Bitcoin. It seems like they're hitting a lot of good notes there.

1067
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:27,060
They're funding Bitcoin development outside of their own company. So no, I'm not cynical about

1068
01:05:27,060 --> 01:05:34,480
that. And I do see a strategy that I can only assume is going to pay off very, very well in

1069
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:41,360
the future. Right. I do think that, uh, you know, they do share a fatal flaw with Stripe, which is,

1070
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:46,600
um, that maybe COVID actually helped a little bit, which is, you know, the very San Francisco,

1071
01:05:46,740 --> 01:05:55,400
Silicon Valley centric. Right. And, you know, as a broad generalization, um, that, that San Francisco,

1072
01:05:55,540 --> 01:05:59,720
Silicon Valley culture never really understood Bitcoin. Obviously there are tons of individuals

1073
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:04,180
and stuff like that, but as a startup culture, as a entrepreneurial culture, as a business

1074
01:06:04,180 --> 01:06:11,640
building culture and funding culture, um, never understood Bitcoin. Uh, so I think that that's

1075
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:16,520
even more impressive that square has made the progress that they have given that that's sort

1076
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:21,400
of the root of their business as well. Yeah. I used to visit down there in like 2019 or so I went

1077
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:26,600
to their offices a few times, talk about Bitcoin stuff and there's several wonderful Bitcoiners

1078
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:30,900
there, but it was very clear to me that that was not a company wide thing. That was a top down

1079
01:06:30,900 --> 01:06:39,000
mandate um that we are going to do this and uh i think obviously it's been manifested the most on

1080
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:43,660
the cash app side that's where like it's been a good business for them they make money off of it

1081
01:06:43,660 --> 01:06:49,360
they you know it's profitable you know all those things but um i i have no reason to believe that

1082
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:54,460
these other things won't i'm most excited honestly about the point of sale um you know it's that right

1083
01:06:54,460 --> 01:07:00,180
we built like this like very you know we call it a companion app point of sale just sort of the

1084
01:07:00,180 --> 01:07:04,260
you know, calculator screen that you could do on your phone if you also had like a terminal.

1085
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:10,300
But our hope was we just did it for people that just needed a little bit of access there. Our hope

1086
01:07:10,300 --> 01:07:14,840
was always that we would either integrate with another point of sale, which we still might do,

1087
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:19,820
or that someone like Square would just do that part of it. And then we'd handle the rest,

1088
01:07:19,820 --> 01:07:24,400
you know, over here and e-commerce and business invoicing and, you know, stuff like that.

1089
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:30,420
it's very similar to the decision we just made with uh our latest uh launch on uh ticketing

1090
01:07:30,420 --> 01:07:37,020
right was that my original goal was oh we'll just it's very good when you build businesses to have a

1091
01:07:37,020 --> 01:07:41,360
lot of naivety or else you'd never build these things and so domain expertise when you're

1092
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:46,900
building something is the most overrated and so i was just like okay we'll go integrate in with

1093
01:07:46,900 --> 01:07:52,260
ticket master or event bright or something like that and then i find out that like the whole way

1094
01:07:52,260 --> 01:07:57,740
one of the major ways they make money is siphoning off transaction fees from the fiat payment

1095
01:07:57,740 --> 01:08:02,700
processes or they're addicted to it and they can't live without it and that you know low low fee

1096
01:08:02,700 --> 01:08:07,380
transactions from bitcoin actually is at the heart of their business model and then you look at it

1097
01:08:07,380 --> 01:08:12,200
and you're like well an event system is not actually that hard to build and so we build that

1098
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:17,460
right uh on i just wanted to be a checkout company but we're actually becoming more than that

1099
01:08:17,460 --> 01:08:21,560
but i'm very glad we don't have to become a point of sale company you know in the square

1100
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:27,000
you know stripe or i guess it's just square world sorry i jumped around quite a bit there but um

1101
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:32,760
you know the point being is that like those companies doing you know stripe is taking a

1102
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:39,120
very different angle than square on this um i think that you know david mark has also has

1103
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:44,600
recently been talking about this with what i think it's what stripe's doing um and just saying like

1104
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:51,540
to take it from a guy who's been there right uh you don't want to do this um and of course

1105
01:08:51,540 --> 01:08:53,240
he chose as his

1106
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:55,260
follow-up to Libra being

1107
01:08:55,260 --> 01:08:57,360
working on Lightning.

1108
01:08:58,580 --> 01:08:59,740
Yeah, and now Spark.

1109
01:09:00,220 --> 01:09:00,440
Yeah.

1110
01:09:01,180 --> 01:09:03,700
From what I hear, people

1111
01:09:03,700 --> 01:09:05,780
are really bullish on Spark.

1112
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:07,680
Yeah, I don't know

1113
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:09,520
enough about it other than

1114
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:11,700
that we are looking at ZapRite

1115
01:09:11,700 --> 01:09:13,800
and integrating with it because it is

1116
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:15,800
something that looks like it's going

1117
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:17,820
to be the critical

1118
01:09:17,820 --> 01:09:19,840
infrastructure to a lot of the

1119
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:25,840
wallet ecosystem going forward um for a lot of wallets i i know that i like wallet of satoshi

1120
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:32,480
is back in the united states specifically because they're using spark and so um i think that that's

1121
01:09:32,480 --> 01:09:37,060
a good thing i don't know what other wallets are using them yet but it does seem like there's

1122
01:09:37,060 --> 01:09:41,060
momentum building there pretty sure breeze implemented breeze that's right that is another

1123
01:09:41,060 --> 01:09:46,660
one yeah and so that's great for someone like us like you know we don't operate a wallet

1124
01:09:46,660 --> 01:09:53,100
we're agnostic to the wallet uh that you choose it's just we we want you we want you to get more

1125
01:09:53,100 --> 01:09:58,100
bitcoin right we want whether you're you know you're business invoicing or you're selling

1126
01:09:58,100 --> 01:10:03,320
something online or you know you're running an event you know uh the bitcoin park people uh here

1127
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:08,180
in austin and in nashville use uh the ticketing system now if you're going to any of their events

1128
01:10:08,180 --> 01:10:13,820
in september or nems in january next next year is like the whole point is just to get you more

1129
01:10:13,820 --> 01:10:21,520
Bitcoin. Right. And, um, you know, we look at the wallet ecosystem and we tried to support as much

1130
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:27,680
as we can, uh, to say, you know, come in here, uh, bring your own wallet. We don't ever touch

1131
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:34,140
your money. Um, and so I think spark is actually going to open that up quite a bit. And we, we,

1132
01:10:34,140 --> 01:10:38,260
we love seeing stuff like that. It's just more options for merchants, more options for individuals

1133
01:10:38,260 --> 01:10:39,600
to get more Bitcoin.

1134
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:40,420
Yeah.

1135
01:10:41,060 --> 01:10:42,400
Well, let's dive into the ticketing.

1136
01:10:42,860 --> 01:10:47,180
How hard or easy was it to build?

1137
01:10:48,340 --> 01:10:49,900
Could it be an event?

1138
01:10:50,620 --> 01:10:54,020
Is it an overt event rate, ticket master, competitor?

1139
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:58,100
When we started out doing it,

1140
01:10:58,220 --> 01:11:01,360
I always assumed things are going to be way harder than they are.

1141
01:11:01,540 --> 01:11:04,180
It's a good mindset to be in when you build software.

1142
01:11:04,180 --> 01:11:14,900
but um uh relatively speaking events aren't that complicated um and uh now something like what

1143
01:11:14,900 --> 01:11:20,180
ticket master does where their customers more like uh venues where you have seating charts and all

1144
01:11:20,180 --> 01:11:25,020
that it gets more complicated there you know getting getting all that information but like

1145
01:11:25,020 --> 01:11:29,620
what eventbrite does where it's just you know i'm doing an event i want to issue tickets i want to be

1146
01:11:29,620 --> 01:11:34,020
able to you know validate those tickets at a check-in things like that it's pretty simple actually

1147
01:11:34,020 --> 01:11:36,600
and of course we already had all the fun

1148
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:38,180
checkout stuff

1149
01:11:38,180 --> 01:11:40,740
so we just had to apply what we were already

1150
01:11:40,740 --> 01:11:42,700
good at to these events

1151
01:11:42,700 --> 01:11:44,940
and what became very clear to us

1152
01:11:44,940 --> 01:11:46,200
was that

1153
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:48,840
the integration path was going to be

1154
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:49,640
very very long

1155
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:52,840
we would integrate in a second to any of these systems

1156
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:53,820
when it happens

1157
01:11:53,820 --> 01:11:56,800
but then we started actually using

1158
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:58,440
the product that we had built

1159
01:11:58,440 --> 01:12:00,040
and I was like oof

1160
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:01,380
this might be better

1161
01:12:01,380 --> 01:12:07,120
like this is supposed to be a lightweight and it is in some ways that there's a lot of features that

1162
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:21,300
are missing that you would get in like an event bright that that we are planning on building like say transferring tickets like once you buy them transferring to other people you can technically do it but you have to kind of go out of band in order to do that So I not claiming that feature for feature we matched

1163
01:12:21,300 --> 01:12:29,260
necessarily the legacy ticketing system. However, what I would say is that it is surprisingly

1164
01:12:29,260 --> 01:12:37,320
functional. It is surprisingly nice. And in a lot of ways, it's already better because of the way

1165
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:40,040
we integrate both fiat and Bitcoin.

1166
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:42,940
It's easy, you know,

1167
01:12:43,260 --> 01:12:46,140
Apple Wallet has changed this a little bit on the fiat side,

1168
01:12:46,220 --> 01:12:49,340
although most people are still using credit cards online and things like that,

1169
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:52,040
is that just the process of paying in Bitcoin,

1170
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:55,380
there's a lot of friction that gets taken out of the sale,

1171
01:12:55,500 --> 01:12:57,080
both as like someone who's buying something,

1172
01:12:57,220 --> 01:12:59,300
but for your merchant to actually like close a deal,

1173
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:00,660
to actually get conversions.

1174
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:05,520
If you're doing an event and you have to put in,

1175
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:15,280
what is all the billing information on your credit card and all the stuff, or just show them a QR code and they can zap over the $300 for the event right away.

1176
01:13:16,620 --> 01:13:27,880
The actual friction in the checkout process, because Bitcoin is put on the same level as fiat transaction methods, it's really nice and the conversions come through.

1177
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:34,080
so you know going back to your original questions like there are some things that are hard

1178
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:41,520
but for the most part it's not rocket science you know it's it's a crud app right we've we've

1179
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:49,800
built those before but we have great ux great design and more than anything we have a great

1180
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:58,820
checkout process that helps event organizers convert sales yeah and i think if you're trying

1181
01:13:58,820 --> 01:14:03,560
to accumulate bitcoin and you have something that is almost that parody with event bright like why

1182
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:09,540
leave sats on the table exactly complicate your path to sats by going fiat only and having to

1183
01:14:09,540 --> 01:14:16,040
convert and obviously for those who are unaware of zap right like this is not bitcoin only like

1184
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:21,400
you'll have an event you'll use zap right to sell tickets to that event and people can pay

1185
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:26,640
in bitcoin or fiat yeah i want to get ahead of something because you know we haven't i don't

1186
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:32,400
know if we've ever talked zap right together maybe we have yes we have me and you like on on the show

1187
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:39,360
okay i think all i have in my head is war mode that was so much fun we need to do that again

1188
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:44,440
we do uh these guys have already slipped up uh no i mean i want to get ahead of you know like

1189
01:14:44,440 --> 01:14:47,180
we don't have a be-cacher mentality

1190
01:14:47,180 --> 01:14:48,220
on any of this stuff.

1191
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:50,500
Obviously, I'm building a product,

1192
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:52,600
and it's a two-sided market, and I'm going to make

1193
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:54,920
both sides of the market a fabulous

1194
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:56,740
experience if you're a payer with Bitcoin

1195
01:14:56,740 --> 01:14:58,920
or if you're receiving Bitcoin. But make no

1196
01:14:58,920 --> 01:14:59,960
mistake, this is built,

1197
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:01,400
ZapRite exists

1198
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:04,680
for people to stack sats, for people to

1199
01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:06,620
accept Bitcoin, for people who want Bitcoin.

1200
01:15:07,020 --> 01:15:08,720
And everyone's like, who in their right

1201
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:11,020
mind would pay their hard-earned

1202
01:15:11,020 --> 01:15:12,320
sats? It's like, that's not the point.

1203
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:15,340
The point is there are people who want Bitcoin.

1204
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:18,260
It was the motivation when I joined unchained, right?

1205
01:15:18,420 --> 01:15:23,040
Was I love the custody model and the feature I had in my head the entire time when I joined

1206
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:26,780
unchained was buy Bitcoin directly to cold storage with keys that you control.

1207
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:32,540
Can I get the unchained vault, you know, and instead of buying over here and then sending

1208
01:15:32,540 --> 01:15:34,680
it over, can I just have it go there directly?

1209
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:35,120
Right.

1210
01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:38,000
Same thing with ZapRite is that I want more Bitcoin.

1211
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:42,460
And so if I run a business and I'm sending out invoices, I'm realistic.

1212
01:15:43,180 --> 01:15:46,840
Maybe most of my transactions are going to happen in fiat.

1213
01:15:47,440 --> 01:15:47,920
Fine.

1214
01:15:48,100 --> 01:15:53,580
I'm going to accumulate the Bitcoin that I can by putting Bitcoin on the same level as fiat there.

1215
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:58,480
And for most of our customers, most of our customers get actually quite a bit of Bitcoin.

1216
01:15:58,620 --> 01:16:03,700
But for some of them, minority of them, they'll be on ZapRite for three months.

1217
01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:06,280
They'll get zero Bitcoin transactions.

1218
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:11,800
four months, zero Bitcoin transactions, five months starts coming in, you know,

1219
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:15,100
and then it goes from 1% to 3% to 5% of their sales.

1220
01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:22,220
On the event side, I think that there's kind of two things. One is there's a lot of Bitcoin

1221
01:16:22,220 --> 01:16:28,140
centric events, uh, organized by people who are motivated to accumulate more Bitcoin.

1222
01:16:28,420 --> 01:16:32,400
I want to help them. Those are my people, right? I want to help them get more Bitcoin

1223
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:38,660
and getting bitcoin for events outside of prog the bitcoin prog guys they were so motivated that

1224
01:16:38,660 --> 01:16:43,360
they basically built their own you know system that's very very good but it's not extensible

1225
01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:48,620
it's not usable for for other event organizers most of those people really do they would prefer

1226
01:16:48,620 --> 01:16:54,880
getting bitcoin for the hard work they put on uh doing the meetup or doing the event or doing the

1227
01:16:54,880 --> 01:17:01,240
you know whatever they're doing and then you know i look at this and i'm uh you know looking at other

1228
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:07,100
event organizers out there. And a lot of them would, maybe they're not as motivated as the big

1229
01:17:07,100 --> 01:17:12,700
conferences that we go to, but they would like some Bitcoin. They would like if 5% of their sales

1230
01:17:12,700 --> 01:17:17,360
came in through Bitcoin. These are people doing music festivals and stuff like that. So yeah,

1231
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:23,780
the motivation here is very much, how do we allow these businesses who are motivated to receive

1232
01:17:23,780 --> 01:17:30,360
Bitcoin do that? And I mean, without sounding egotistical or anything, it's like, we definitely

1233
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:37,560
have built the best way to do that you definitely have i mean here at tftc if you go to tftcmerch.io

1234
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:44,920
and you buy one of our hats we use that right for checkout pretty confident 90 of the sales

1235
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:50,040
are in bitcoin and we have fiat as an option but to that point on the screen share here

1236
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:55,600
free ad for my favorite soap but i think this is a perfect example if you have a product that's

1237
01:17:55,600 --> 01:18:02,780
good enough and you are oh that's right demanding bitcoin and like i love this soap i've been using

1238
01:18:02,780 --> 01:18:09,380
it for the last six months and it is now my go-to soap i'm buying a bit every month and you can only

1239
01:18:09,380 --> 01:18:16,040
pay in bitcoin and so and you guys have made it so i go i might check out i go to check out

1240
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:22,600
put in the information um i can't do it now because i'm not going to put in my information

1241
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:28,480
but like you click this and it's like i can only pay in bitcoin and this is a product that i have

1242
01:18:28,480 --> 01:18:34,320
deemed um so good that if the only way i can get it is paying in bitcoin i'm gonna pay in bitcoin

1243
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:40,240
yeah powered by zapra it's the way things work right the incentive is there because you can't

1244
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:46,680
get the product otherwise we have a few merchants that are like that um and um yeah i mean so it's

1245
01:18:46,680 --> 01:18:52,400
it's built for those people right and uh i don't know if any of you out there you know hosting a

1246
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:56,600
meetup and you know doing any of those things or have it have an adventure yourself i i would

1247
01:18:56,600 --> 01:19:01,940
encourage you to try it out like i'm i'm pretty excited about this one uh it's a really really

1248
01:19:01,940 --> 01:19:06,920
good product and i think of the world in terms of really good products and this one is one of the

1249
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:13,720
one of the better ones out there what is the uh the ux flow like if somebody has an event yeah

1250
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:20,380
we focus more on the ticketing side of it than the event side so if you have an event and you know

1251
01:19:20,380 --> 01:19:24,020
as a date and a location and all those things it's there, but it's not,

1252
01:19:24,140 --> 01:19:27,720
this isn't like a marketing website builder for your event.

1253
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:32,040
If you are on Squarespace or you're on some other website builder,

1254
01:19:32,180 --> 01:19:36,260
you know, especially if you're a conference or something like that is bigger,

1255
01:19:36,260 --> 01:19:38,540
you probably have a lot of marketing assets out there.

1256
01:19:39,480 --> 01:19:41,120
Now you can use it as a standalone.

1257
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:43,220
It has all the information that someone would need,

1258
01:19:43,220 --> 01:19:47,540
but we really focus on the ticketing aspect of creating those tickets.

1259
01:19:47,540 --> 01:19:55,540
um you have you know more advanced features like uh you know having a stock or a max order per buy

1260
01:19:55,540 --> 01:20:00,500
you have all those sort of familiar things that you would get in a more advanced ticketing system

1261
01:20:00,500 --> 01:20:08,420
um and then uh you have this landing page which is basically a muted or smaller amount of

1262
01:20:08,420 --> 01:20:13,880
information about the event itself um and then you have you know the list of tickets increment them

1263
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:21,080
buy them and really you know you know what we're really good at is the checkout side right of once

1264
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:26,300
you've determined how many tickets you're going to buy uh going there and being able to buy and

1265
01:20:26,300 --> 01:20:30,960
whatever the merchant is allowing you know whether that's credit card and enlightening or that's on

1266
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:36,160
chain and apple pay you know any of those combinations are all there and you get to determine

1267
01:20:36,160 --> 01:20:42,920
how uh what order they go in if you add a discount or premium to a certain type of payment

1268
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:47,980
uh, all of that's still there. Everything that, uh, people are, are sort of used to with our

1269
01:20:47,980 --> 01:20:53,440
payment links and, and invoices and things like that. Um, and then on the merchant side,

1270
01:20:53,500 --> 01:20:58,780
uh, you have three ways to check people in, uh, we have a ticket scanner. It's a secret URL. You

1271
01:20:58,780 --> 01:21:05,000
can share that secret URL with, uh, you know, if you have, uh, event, uh, volunteers or anything

1272
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:11,020
like that, that, um, are checking people in, uh, that will scan the tickets, uh, that are delivered

1273
01:21:11,020 --> 01:21:15,640
via email. Those tickets, by the way, for your end customer, they can be added to your Google

1274
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:20,500
wallet, your Apple wallet, like any other real ticketing system. So you can scan people in there.

1275
01:21:20,900 --> 01:21:27,700
We have another check-in process that's native to the actual web app that you can do as well if you

1276
01:21:27,700 --> 01:21:31,800
want to manually check people in without scanning. And then, of course, you can print things out where

1277
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:36,000
we give you a nice list of everyone who's bought tickets and whatever information you've gathered

1278
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:41,700
about them so that you can validate their entry for like a offline backup so there's three ways

1279
01:21:41,700 --> 01:21:48,140
to check people in um you can you can undo it there are some features that will come down you

1280
01:21:48,140 --> 01:21:52,460
know you know in the future things like transferring tickets things like you know

1281
01:21:52,460 --> 01:21:56,640
allowing you know having a more sophisticated understanding of allowing re-entries but for

1282
01:21:56,640 --> 01:22:03,720
right now for the vast majority of events out there what you see will get you will get you there

1283
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:10,760
yeah it's beautiful it's a well-baked mvp i'll put it that way it's definitely viable and like

1284
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:18,080
this i think this part is still so cool to me like connect a wallet like cold card being part

1285
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:24,720
of it like the thought that you could have an event like this be a business and the sales let's

1286
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:28,740
say it's a high ticket item you're selling like a thousand dollar ticket it's like boom you can

1287
01:22:28,740 --> 01:22:35,380
send it right to cold card and have that in cold storage in your business wallet.

1288
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:40,620
It is one of the things that event organizers struggle with a lot is that when, you know,

1289
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:46,060
you know, with any event, most of your ticket sales happen, the closer you get to the actual

1290
01:22:46,060 --> 01:22:51,140
event, right? But you have to put up a lot of capital beforehand to actually build out, you

1291
01:22:51,140 --> 01:22:55,040
know, the venue, the, you know, you know, the lodging, you know, all the things that you need

1292
01:22:55,040 --> 01:23:01,220
to spend money on. And so when you're also sort of subject to a payment processor that holds your

1293
01:23:01,220 --> 01:23:08,420
funds for 30, 60, 90 days before they pay you out, right? Whatever their policy is, or can put a hold

1294
01:23:08,420 --> 01:23:12,880
on that fund. Uh, you know, you've heard this before, you know, hold on the funds because of

1295
01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:23,020
some, you know, you got tripped up and, and, uh, some, uh, incorrect fraud, automatic mechanism in

1296
01:23:23,020 --> 01:23:29,220
their system and your funds are held up is that uh especially for bitcoin uh events is like you

1297
01:23:29,220 --> 01:23:34,120
might have uh obligations to nominate it in bitcoin so you're getting this stuff right away

1298
01:23:34,120 --> 01:23:41,040
that you can then use towards the event pay your people pay your suppliers pay your uh hard costs

1299
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:47,140
and all that is that getting getting the money directly to you is uh is a huge advantage yeah

1300
01:23:47,140 --> 01:23:53,840
it really is and i can attest to that as a business owner accepting both uh bitcoin and fiat

1301
01:23:53,840 --> 01:24:01,320
yeah sharing here yeah it's fun stuff yeah i thought it was important to bring up the blog

1302
01:24:01,320 --> 01:24:05,440
because just help people visualize it for sure anybody watching on youtube and

1303
01:24:05,440 --> 01:24:11,460
if you've ever done it feels very familiar that's one of the things i wanted to make sure is that

1304
01:24:11,460 --> 01:24:17,080
like if you're used to if you run an event before you're going to see most of what you need

1305
01:24:17,080 --> 01:24:21,100
right there right now and of course you know it's going to get better over time we just launched it

1306
01:24:21,100 --> 01:24:27,780
um i believe on monday um so uh well it's a young product it is pretty fully baked

1307
01:24:27,780 --> 01:24:34,660
i mean just having apple wallet functionality alone i think that that is what people i mean that

1308
01:24:34,660 --> 01:24:42,380
is what i've come to um see as a must-have for events like physically physically getting tickets

1309
01:24:42,380 --> 01:24:48,560
these days is uh or even like having to go to the email and find the qr code yeah um yeah that's

1310
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:54,660
like uh so this is the old way of doing it like just being like add it to the wallet yeah it took

1311
01:24:54,660 --> 01:24:59,380
our oldest to the uh the phillies game this summer and it was just like boom went to ticket master

1312
01:24:59,380 --> 01:25:15,480
had the wallets on my had the tickets on my phone sure it very easy and then the tickets now it like nfc you don even have to do the qr code it just like boop boop yeah right now we still doing QRs even on the Apple Wallet side of things Funny enough is like I go to a lot of sporting events

1313
01:25:15,480 --> 01:25:16,220
and stuff like that.

1314
01:25:16,700 --> 01:25:19,180
The QR is actually faster for checking in,

1315
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:20,800
which is a nice thing.

1316
01:25:20,940 --> 01:25:21,720
You've done it before.

1317
01:25:21,880 --> 01:25:24,220
You put your phone up and the guy's like moving it around

1318
01:25:24,220 --> 01:25:25,640
and trying to get the NFC thing to work.

1319
01:25:26,340 --> 01:25:28,380
NFC is one of those things we do want to still support,

1320
01:25:28,900 --> 01:25:32,360
but in our test of lining up people at Pleb Lab

1321
01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:34,820
and scanning them in is that the QR reader,

1322
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:40,360
even on the uh the apple wallet much faster actually for getting people in that's interesting

1323
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:49,900
yeah or sorry it's not necessarily as much faster it it works the first time more often yeah well

1324
01:25:49,900 --> 01:25:56,340
but shifting gears a little bit but sure really diving into the process of building this product

1325
01:25:56,340 --> 01:26:01,700
is something i miss dearly about being um in bitcoin park austin is being around you

1326
01:26:01,700 --> 01:26:07,620
in others in the space, particularly as you implement AI into your production flows.

1327
01:26:07,740 --> 01:26:08,620
Sure. That's fun.

1328
01:26:09,080 --> 01:26:13,060
Let's talk about that because I know you guys have really been leaning into that zap, right?

1329
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:18,280
Yes. Eventually, I'll become a programmer because of it. I'm not quite there yet.

1330
01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:23,900
I've done a little programming in my past, but I am decidedly not a programmer. No, I mean,

1331
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:28,120
there are definitely people that have leaned into this more than we have. However, I will say that

1332
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:34,240
like we're pretty motivated we're a small team right so any you know we have two full-time one

1333
01:26:34,240 --> 01:26:42,940
part-time uh developers um you know we're a team of you know five six people and so uh on the ai

1334
01:26:42,940 --> 01:26:51,140
side of things it definitely helps like like what i've seen from you know people using uh cod clod

1335
01:26:51,140 --> 01:26:57,120
code and cursor and uh these models is that like even the difference in the last six months is

1336
01:26:57,120 --> 01:27:05,200
is shocking um we've even had you know very close to an entire you know a small well-defined

1337
01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:11,540
simple bug that goes into our ticketing system that gets picked up you know by an ai agent that

1338
01:27:11,540 --> 01:27:18,060
attempts to fix it and uh puts up a pr that then needs to be reviewed we've had that process go

1339
01:27:18,060 --> 01:27:26,140
through on very very small things um uh without human intervention which is pretty wild yeah um

1340
01:27:26,140 --> 01:27:28,760
And I know there's people doing more sophisticated stuff out there,

1341
01:27:28,820 --> 01:27:32,020
but that's a really exciting thing to see that like someone can put in a bug

1342
01:27:32,020 --> 01:27:33,100
into a ticketing system,

1343
01:27:33,100 --> 01:27:38,200
then AI agent can pick it up that it can discern what needs to be done to fix

1344
01:27:38,200 --> 01:27:38,720
that bug.

1345
01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:42,880
It can make a suggestion and create the code and put it up for a review by

1346
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:43,280
human.

1347
01:27:43,460 --> 01:27:47,720
And that at least once we've had that happen to where we were like,

1348
01:27:47,780 --> 01:27:48,060
all right,

1349
01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:49,560
put it live.

1350
01:27:49,680 --> 01:27:50,100
That's right.

1351
01:27:50,500 --> 01:27:50,700
Yeah.

1352
01:27:51,180 --> 01:27:52,120
What was the bug?

1353
01:27:52,480 --> 01:27:53,300
I can't remember.

1354
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:53,540
It was,

1355
01:27:53,540 --> 01:27:53,940
it was very,

1356
01:27:53,940 --> 01:27:54,380
it was,

1357
01:27:54,500 --> 01:27:55,960
I don't want to call it trivial,

1358
01:27:56,140 --> 01:27:56,960
but it was a,

1359
01:27:57,120 --> 01:27:58,880
it was a very easy bug to fix.

1360
01:27:58,880 --> 01:27:59,300
Right.

1361
01:27:59,360 --> 01:28:01,260
I can't remember exactly what it was,

1362
01:28:01,260 --> 01:28:04,480
but it was small in nature.

1363
01:28:04,620 --> 01:28:07,100
It wasn't super complicated and we were all surprised.

1364
01:28:09,800 --> 01:28:10,400
And then,

1365
01:28:10,500 --> 01:28:12,740
but it's easy to extrapolate.

1366
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:13,920
It's what I'm trying to say is like,

1367
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:15,140
that might've been a very trivial,

1368
01:28:15,340 --> 01:28:15,840
small thing,

1369
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:17,340
but you know,

1370
01:28:17,340 --> 01:28:17,540
I,

1371
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:17,960
you know,

1372
01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:19,100
we're both friends with,

1373
01:28:19,100 --> 01:28:19,420
you know,

1374
01:28:19,500 --> 01:28:21,220
I'm shot at replet and we're seeing,

1375
01:28:21,220 --> 01:28:22,060
you know,

1376
01:28:22,060 --> 01:28:26,120
the end to end processes that they're working towards.

1377
01:28:26,140 --> 01:28:32,280
right is that like you know he just came out with his whole you know uh you know yeah you can get ai

1378
01:28:32,280 --> 01:28:36,300
to write this code but there's just there's hundreds of hours that go into like maintaining

1379
01:28:36,300 --> 01:28:40,640
it and like you know you know reviewing it and qing it and doing all these things and rewriting

1380
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:46,220
it and refactoring and doing stuff you know that's for building like an entire app but in terms of

1381
01:28:46,220 --> 01:28:50,340
like supercharging an individual's productivity.

1382
01:28:52,100 --> 01:28:52,860
You know,

1383
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:55,560
we,

1384
01:28:55,760 --> 01:28:55,940
we,

1385
01:28:56,020 --> 01:28:57,240
I've seen it be.

1386
01:29:02,260 --> 01:29:03,820
It is hard.

1387
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:05,100
I don't want to use the wrong word.

1388
01:29:05,160 --> 01:29:05,820
It's shocking.

1389
01:29:06,180 --> 01:29:07,140
It is shocking.

1390
01:29:07,620 --> 01:29:08,580
Walking into that world,

1391
01:29:08,660 --> 01:29:08,940
even,

1392
01:29:09,060 --> 01:29:10,260
even on the product management side,

1393
01:29:10,540 --> 01:29:12,860
writing specs and like coming up with the stuff,

1394
01:29:12,940 --> 01:29:14,880
doing really research and stuff like that.

1395
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:15,260
Everything,

1396
01:29:15,260 --> 01:29:22,880
the whole production line of software development it is uh it's impactful everywhere and that's

1397
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:30,440
that's what i was going to ask if you had to attempt to quantify like from a manpower perspective

1398
01:29:30,440 --> 01:29:38,220
like how many more people do you think you need to hire to get the same results by

1399
01:29:38,220 --> 01:29:45,240
if you were to do this without ai i'm going to say this and then i'm going to double check

1400
01:29:45,240 --> 01:29:47,580
with Tom and Nate and Nick

1401
01:29:47,580 --> 01:29:49,560
who are doing all the programming on our side

1402
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:51,540
to see if I lied to the audience

1403
01:29:51,540 --> 01:29:53,540
and I'll tweet if I lied or not.

1404
01:29:54,040 --> 01:29:55,540
I would say

1405
01:29:55,540 --> 01:29:56,500
they would say

1406
01:29:56,500 --> 01:29:59,400
that it's as if we have somewhere between

1407
01:29:59,400 --> 01:30:01,340
two to four junior developers

1408
01:30:01,340 --> 01:30:03,560
working with us on top of what they do.

1409
01:30:03,640 --> 01:30:05,040
Because most of these people are all...

1410
01:30:05,040 --> 01:30:07,460
We don't have any junior developers. These are very senior

1411
01:30:07,460 --> 01:30:09,580
programmers that work

1412
01:30:09,580 --> 01:30:10,440
at ZapRite right now.

1413
01:30:11,380 --> 01:30:13,280
My guess is they would say it's somewhere

1414
01:30:13,280 --> 01:30:18,860
around two to four junior developers working with us the way we're utilizing ui right uh or ai right

1415
01:30:18,860 --> 01:30:24,300
now which is not even its full extent i would also say that you know one of those junior developers

1416
01:30:24,300 --> 01:30:31,020
is john mcgill like our ceo like he's getting he's getting a lot of prs in these days you know

1417
01:30:31,020 --> 01:30:36,800
and i'm gonna be following suit here like john's uh more capable programmer than i am

1418
01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:43,140
uh as a designer but uh i'm getting a little bit jealous now so like even someone like john is

1419
01:30:43,140 --> 01:30:45,260
in there with some of the easier tasks

1420
01:30:45,260 --> 01:30:47,320
and can use

1421
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:48,980
cursor or cloud code to

1422
01:30:48,980 --> 01:30:50,240
get them there all the way.

1423
01:30:51,540 --> 01:30:52,420
If we're

1424
01:30:52,420 --> 01:30:54,960
trying to quantify that

1425
01:30:54,960 --> 01:30:57,080
monetary, let's just say junior developer makes $150

1426
01:30:57,080 --> 01:30:59,040
somewhere around there.

1427
01:30:59,040 --> 01:30:59,940
You're saving between

1428
01:30:59,940 --> 01:31:03,320
$300,000 and $600,000 a year.

1429
01:31:04,220 --> 01:31:05,280
More than anything for a company

1430
01:31:05,280 --> 01:31:06,940
like ours, it's not even saving money.

1431
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:09,060
We're just getting to do stuff we wouldn't be able to do

1432
01:31:09,060 --> 01:31:11,020
otherwise because we didn't have the money to spend that

1433
01:31:11,020 --> 01:31:16,120
on that anyway or we didn't want to spend our money that way right and so all of a sudden our

1434
01:31:16,120 --> 01:31:24,060
output i mean zap right is not a tiny project it's not a huge project but it's not a tiny project

1435
01:31:24,060 --> 01:31:30,800
and what we've been able to accomplish with a very small team is honestly it's just not really

1436
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:36,740
possible you know 10 years ago like you don't build you don't build an application to zap

1437
01:31:36,740 --> 01:31:43,120
rights stature with, with four or five people. No, just not a thing. It's so crazy. That's,

1438
01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:48,480
that's shocking. It's, it, it fits my personality. So, so much. It's like every time a company gets

1439
01:31:48,480 --> 01:31:53,360
big, I want to go start another one, you know? And, uh, knowing that maybe I've stumbled into

1440
01:31:53,360 --> 01:31:58,140
a world where, um, the company doesn't have to get big for the product to get big. You know,

1441
01:31:58,140 --> 01:32:04,120
uh, that would be very fun for me. Uh, uh, and then we'll see if I just have commitment issues.

1442
01:32:04,120 --> 01:32:11,440
and uh well i mean it is i think it's you're a fascinating individual because you've seen both

1443
01:32:11,440 --> 01:32:17,580
ends of the spectrum um being very high up at stack overflow for for many years talk about ai

1444
01:32:17,580 --> 01:32:25,820
yeah yeah are you willing to tell your uh stack overflow ai story oh i mean yeah i'll say a little

1445
01:32:25,820 --> 01:32:31,220
bit about it is that you know one is you know i worked at stack overflow for eight years uh

1446
01:32:31,220 --> 01:32:48,080
And all that time I was into Bitcoin, but I was very excited about Stack Overflow. It was an incredibly rewarding business and product to work on. And one of those things where it's like, I could even rationalize how I was helping Bitcoin at the time.

1447
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:54,020
the Bitcoin stack exchange, you know, Peter Woola and Jimmy song and merch and all these guys still

1448
01:32:54,020 --> 01:32:59,180
to this day, you know, there's a huge repository of Bitcoin stuff. I helped start the Bitcoin stack

1449
01:32:59,180 --> 01:33:03,600
exchange from the inside. That was very fun. Um, and then of course, you know, stack overflow

1450
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:08,920
itself and the, the, the, the aid it was to programmers, you know, it's, it's fun watching.

1451
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:13,780
I like watching all these AI companies getting so psyched on their work, especially when it comes to,

1452
01:33:13,780 --> 01:33:18,380
uh, what they're doing in the programming world, because I lived that. Like, I remember when stack

1453
01:33:18,380 --> 01:33:22,740
overflow would go down and what Twitter would look like. It's like, well, can't do my job today.

1454
01:33:22,740 --> 01:33:28,520
It's like, it was an impactful place to work. It was very fun. Um, and the product was very good,

1455
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:35,680
uh, until the end. Um, and, uh, but there was this moment, like, I don't know, I want to say

1456
01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:44,680
it was 2018, 2019, where chatbots, you'd hear a lot about chatbots. And it's the same thing we're

1457
01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:49,880
talking about now. It's just the LLMs. But they just weren't very good yet. They're very clunky,

1458
01:33:50,280 --> 01:33:54,460
but it was all the buzz in Silicon Valley. And while Stack Overflow wasn't a Silicon Valley

1459
01:33:54,460 --> 01:33:59,860
company, we were very attached to that culture, even though we were in New York. And of course,

1460
01:33:59,860 --> 01:34:03,460
all of our clients and everything were in Silicon Valley for the most part.

1461
01:34:03,460 --> 01:34:10,680
and so chatbots were kind of the rage right and i remember we were working on an integration

1462
01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:17,540
with microsoft on visual studio where you could kind of do some of the things you can do now

1463
01:34:17,540 --> 01:34:23,820
which are like you could highlight code and then it would you know come up with this chatbot

1464
01:34:23,820 --> 01:34:29,680
basically inside visual studio and uh say you know here's why you're having this bug you know

1465
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:31,080
based off of stack overflow data,

1466
01:34:31,240 --> 01:34:31,500
you know,

1467
01:34:31,500 --> 01:34:35,420
using a neural network that no one knew how it worked or anything like that.

1468
01:34:36,080 --> 01:34:36,520
Uh,

1469
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:38,900
that was really,

1470
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:39,600
really fun.

1471
01:34:39,620 --> 01:34:41,040
And the pro the only problem with that,

1472
01:34:41,100 --> 01:34:42,820
there was unbelievable product,

1473
01:34:42,820 --> 01:34:44,440
except it just didn't work.

1474
01:34:44,720 --> 01:34:46,580
Like at the UX was great.

1475
01:34:46,580 --> 01:34:46,820
And like,

1476
01:34:46,820 --> 01:34:47,820
all these things were really cool.

1477
01:34:48,060 --> 01:34:48,340
It's just,

1478
01:34:48,400 --> 01:34:49,520
you just got wrong answers.

1479
01:34:49,680 --> 01:34:50,080
It was like,

1480
01:34:50,700 --> 01:34:51,960
and I remember when,

1481
01:34:52,080 --> 01:34:53,600
when Joel left and everything,

1482
01:34:53,600 --> 01:34:54,660
um,

1483
01:34:54,660 --> 01:34:55,520
and we were getting,

1484
01:34:55,660 --> 01:34:56,220
you know,

1485
01:34:56,560 --> 01:34:59,100
new management and some stuff like that.

1486
01:34:59,100 --> 01:35:04,280
It was like, I couldn't help but just, you know, tell all the new guys that came in after Joel,

1487
01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:06,060
or really just the new CEO.

1488
01:35:06,060 --> 01:35:07,440
It wasn't like a whole management change.

1489
01:35:07,500 --> 01:35:11,380
It was really just CEO was just like, yeah, but imagine if it did work.

1490
01:35:11,940 --> 01:35:13,540
Wouldn't this be the greatest product?

1491
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:15,460
He was like, no, but it doesn't.

1492
01:35:15,580 --> 01:35:16,880
So we're going to focus on this other stuff.

1493
01:35:16,920 --> 01:35:20,440
I was like, but it might, you know, and of course, eventually it did work.

1494
01:35:21,820 --> 01:35:26,180
And, and stack's not really a part of it, unfortunately.

1495
01:35:26,180 --> 01:35:29,840
um or i mean i know they're trying and i don't want to be too gloomy on it but

1496
01:35:29,840 --> 01:35:38,740
i think maybe stacks had its day in the sun and uh oh yeah and i would imagine that a lot of these

1497
01:35:38,740 --> 01:35:44,240
coding llm specifically probably trained off of a lot of the uh information on stack overflat

1498
01:35:44,240 --> 01:35:49,240
of course they did right i mean well that was the other thing is uh it's all creative commons

1499
01:35:49,240 --> 01:35:54,060
that was that was the case the whole time we we had tons of knockoff stack overflows

1500
01:35:54,060 --> 01:35:54,780
uh,

1501
01:35:54,780 --> 01:35:55,320
throughout the years,

1502
01:35:55,400 --> 01:35:57,200
especially in China and Russia in particular,

1503
01:35:57,200 --> 01:35:58,100
um,

1504
01:35:58,120 --> 01:35:58,640
that were,

1505
01:35:58,880 --> 01:35:59,220
you know,

1506
01:35:59,220 --> 01:36:02,580
just because all of the data was creative commons.

1507
01:36:02,580 --> 01:36:05,880
And that was very important to Joel when he started out and like was very

1508
01:36:05,880 --> 01:36:08,020
noble thing to do.

1509
01:36:08,260 --> 01:36:08,700
Um,

1510
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:11,220
and it was in direct response to,

1511
01:36:11,220 --> 01:36:11,480
you know,

1512
01:36:11,500 --> 01:36:13,840
stack overflow had a boogeyman that they were trying to unseat,

1513
01:36:13,940 --> 01:36:17,460
which was experts exchange where you had to like go pay for answers and all

1514
01:36:17,460 --> 01:36:17,820
this stuff.

1515
01:36:18,440 --> 01:36:18,840
Um,

1516
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:19,480
but it was,

1517
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:20,200
uh,

1518
01:36:20,720 --> 01:36:20,960
you know,

1519
01:36:20,960 --> 01:36:24,040
one of the reasons for its success was that it was creative commons.

1520
01:36:24,060 --> 01:36:31,460
So people could go in there and, you know, create unimaginable value for the world of programmers, right?

1521
01:36:31,460 --> 01:36:43,760
The value, I mean, like the way people would talk about Stack Airflow in 2017, 2018, 2019, it was so crucial to the productivity of the programming workforce.

1522
01:36:44,020 --> 01:36:45,960
It was indispensable, right?

1523
01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:50,980
In the same way that cursor and cloud code and all these things are becoming indispensable now.

1524
01:36:51,540 --> 01:36:52,860
I mean, that was it, right?

1525
01:36:52,860 --> 01:36:58,400
and a lot of that value though was created because it was creative commons like people wouldn't have

1526
01:36:58,400 --> 01:37:03,240
contributed as much if they knew that we were just going to monetize their answers and and keep it in

1527
01:37:03,240 --> 01:37:09,620
this uh walled garden it was about as close as we could get for as a for-profit business of being

1528
01:37:09,620 --> 01:37:15,600
like kind of open source uh was open sourcing all the question answer pairs in the voting and all

1529
01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:21,740
that type of stuff and some people you know the promise was always if we do a bad job you can take

1530
01:37:21,740 --> 01:37:26,660
the data and start up your own thing with all that. Like it's your data. It's not ours.

1531
01:37:27,620 --> 01:37:33,300
And, uh, you know, it was both part of its success and part of its demise at the end of the day.

1532
01:37:33,400 --> 01:37:38,380
It's because, uh, I don't think anyone broke any laws, uh, or, or any, uh, user agreements or

1533
01:37:38,380 --> 01:37:43,660
anything training off of that. Now I do know that they have some form and I'm not privy to what

1534
01:37:43,660 --> 01:37:49,600
stacker flow has been doing or their strategy or anything for the past, uh, five years. But, um,

1535
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:52,200
I do know they have some agreements with Google open AI.

1536
01:37:52,200 --> 01:37:54,140
I think they're getting paid something,

1537
01:37:54,360 --> 01:37:54,540
but I,

1538
01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:55,900
I don't think it's,

1539
01:37:55,900 --> 01:37:56,240
um,

1540
01:37:57,380 --> 01:37:57,760
uh,

1541
01:37:58,160 --> 01:37:59,580
I don't,

1542
01:37:59,620 --> 01:38:13,520
I don think it is uh correlating with the value that stack gave those uh very That a fascinating time Stack was a very necessary product

1543
01:38:13,640 --> 01:38:17,040
As you said, it increased the productivity of the

1544
01:38:17,040 --> 01:38:21,980
software engineer workforce massively.

1545
01:38:22,600 --> 01:38:25,080
It's like this connective product

1546
01:38:25,080 --> 01:38:28,640
company to the AI world.

1547
01:38:28,640 --> 01:38:35,380
yeah but you know you know going back to bitcoin bitcoin saved me from becoming a has-been which is

1548
01:38:35,380 --> 01:38:40,120
like it would have been very easy i remember i mean part of it's just being in your 20s but i

1549
01:38:40,120 --> 01:38:46,920
remember like building in you know the you know you know early 2000s you know when when stacks

1550
01:38:46,920 --> 01:38:54,260
coming alive in 2008 um it's like i i would look with contempt on the people like yeah but i built

1551
01:38:54,260 --> 01:39:00,320
GeoCities. I'm like, ah, who cares? You know, GeoCities was a huge deal, you know? And now

1552
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:05,640
that has been, except that I get to keep on building really amazing stuff with Bitcoin. So

1553
01:39:05,640 --> 01:39:11,560
I don't define my, it wasn't my last chapter. So that's good.

1554
01:39:12,740 --> 01:39:19,380
And I know we're running long here. We've had a very robust, meandering conversation about many

1555
01:39:19,380 --> 01:39:23,200
different topics. But one thing, just to really lean into the Bitcoin side of things, what you're

1556
01:39:23,200 --> 01:39:31,880
building at zap right um one question um that we'll be asking portfolio companies at 1031

1557
01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:40,020
um at a retreat this year which i'm fine to open source on the uh on the podcast right now but it's

1558
01:39:40,020 --> 01:39:47,420
uh what doesn't exist in the industry right now that zap right probably won't build but you think

1559
01:39:47,420 --> 01:39:54,640
should be built that could help you guys? Oh man. Uh, just on the software side, not on the policy

1560
01:39:54,640 --> 01:40:02,100
side, because I would change a lot of policy things as well. Um, geez. I mean, I, it's hard

1561
01:40:02,100 --> 01:40:08,540
to narrow down only because, you know, anything that money touches that Bitcoin is not predominantly

1562
01:40:08,540 --> 01:40:15,160
featured in right now. Um, I think that, you know, Bitcoin will be there. So, um, you know,

1563
01:40:15,160 --> 01:40:16,100
on the ZapRite side,

1564
01:40:16,200 --> 01:40:17,780
there's all these integrations I want to do,

1565
01:40:17,900 --> 01:40:18,160
you know,

1566
01:40:18,160 --> 01:40:18,720
like there's all,

1567
01:40:18,820 --> 01:40:19,000
you know,

1568
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:20,460
I don't want to rebuild Patreon.

1569
01:40:21,000 --> 01:40:24,940
I just want you to be able to use Patreon and accept Bitcoin.

1570
01:40:25,100 --> 01:40:25,340
You know,

1571
01:40:25,360 --> 01:40:27,000
I don't want to rebuild YouTube.

1572
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:28,980
I just want you to be able to be paid in Bitcoin.

1573
01:40:28,980 --> 01:40:31,240
If you're already a content creator over there.

1574
01:40:31,240 --> 01:40:31,580
Right.

1575
01:40:32,040 --> 01:40:33,780
And so there's,

1576
01:40:33,860 --> 01:40:34,640
you know,

1577
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:38,360
we chose to build business invoicing in a very robust way or,

1578
01:40:38,360 --> 01:40:38,780
or,

1579
01:40:38,780 --> 01:40:40,300
or the ticketing events,

1580
01:40:40,300 --> 01:40:40,840
um,

1581
01:40:40,900 --> 01:40:42,960
event tickets in a really robust way.

1582
01:40:43,060 --> 01:40:43,580
But,

1583
01:40:43,580 --> 01:40:44,480
you know,

1584
01:40:44,480 --> 01:40:49,540
we're not going to build YouTube and we're not going to build Patreon and we're not going to

1585
01:40:49,540 --> 01:40:56,340
build all these places where people that run businesses. Um, so there's kind of two things.

1586
01:40:56,340 --> 01:41:01,220
There's one is, uh, you can do what ZapRite's doing and try to integrate with them or just pick

1587
01:41:01,220 --> 01:41:07,740
your, your point, or you can go build YouTube. You know, you can do that, uh, in a Bitcoin centric

1588
01:41:07,740 --> 01:41:11,840
way. Podcasting is, is a little bit interesting because there's been a lot of podcasting tools.

1589
01:41:11,840 --> 01:41:17,140
um you know the you know uh adam curry and stuff like that that have been trying to make sure that

1590
01:41:17,140 --> 01:41:24,560
content creators there can um uh can you know accept bitcoin but then there's all like the

1591
01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:28,420
ancillary stuff and i know that there are some things that are working on this so i'm not trying

1592
01:41:28,420 --> 01:41:33,780
to badmouth any startups that are out there trying to solve these problems um but a lot of the

1593
01:41:33,780 --> 01:41:40,860
financial tools around accounting right it's not there yet right like it's still a little bit of a

1594
01:41:40,860 --> 01:41:47,020
struggle um there are good products out there uh i would say we're still waiting for those products

1595
01:41:47,020 --> 01:41:55,240
to become great or for the existing infrastructure around uh accounting to become great right um

1596
01:41:55,240 --> 01:41:59,740
there's you know the treasury management like the castle guys are working on it you know um

1597
01:41:59,740 --> 01:42:05,100
there's all sorts of stuff like that there's different ways uh like i like what the anchor

1598
01:42:05,100 --> 01:42:10,420
watch guys are doing you know i feel like there's a lot custodies in a lot better shape than it used

1599
01:42:10,420 --> 01:42:17,260
to be there's endless ways to play with that problem right um that are suitable to very specific

1600
01:42:17,260 --> 01:42:23,860
industries uh types of businesses things like that um i would say that uh

1601
01:42:23,860 --> 01:42:33,960
gosh what else have i been thinking about recently um i think that on the you know

1602
01:42:33,960 --> 01:42:42,520
other sides like i worry about with ai uh bitcoin miners i don't worry sorry worry is the wrong word

1603
01:42:42,520 --> 01:42:45,880
bitcoin miners are going to be fine they're vultures you know they know how to survive

1604
01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:53,460
but um they have a lot more competition for power now the i i mean like the ai stuff is

1605
01:42:53,460 --> 01:43:02,200
is power hungry and so i would like to see um uh bitcoin companies that are also power producers

1606
01:43:02,200 --> 01:43:09,500
actually behind the meter owning power production so there's a lot of products out there and and

1607
01:43:09,500 --> 01:43:14,620
things out there i'd like to see but um i know from from our our side of things that

1608
01:43:14,620 --> 01:43:19,740
you know we're both gonna we're gonna try to integrate until it's impossible to do so and

1609
01:43:19,740 --> 01:43:25,280
then we'll build it ourselves yeah and that's what i was gonna say on the electricity side

1610
01:43:25,280 --> 01:43:31,340
the uh and before i get to the electricity side just on that point like the reason we're bringing

1611
01:43:31,340 --> 01:43:37,140
this up and at 1031 and just want to see if there's ways that companies in the portfolio

1612
01:43:37,140 --> 01:43:43,000
can collaborate and number two just like also to highlight the massive opportunity that exists out

1613
01:43:43,000 --> 01:43:49,180
there still so much to build there's so much to build and i you know i'll throw it out there

1614
01:43:49,180 --> 01:43:56,620
we we have a talent problem we need more talent coming into bitcoin we just need it and domain

1615
01:43:56,620 --> 01:44:02,740
expertise is overrated if as long as you have a positive view of bitcoin um your skill set whether

1616
01:44:02,740 --> 01:44:07,220
you're a software developer or salesperson or marketer it's like we really do need those people

1617
01:44:07,220 --> 01:44:15,940
working at bitcoin companies yeah and just to tie tie a knot in the bow of your bitcoin mining

1618
01:44:15,940 --> 01:44:20,800
point i think here we go this chart highlights like this the miner is going to get if they're

1619
01:44:20,800 --> 01:44:23,700
consuming electricity at these rates,

1620
01:44:24,600 --> 01:44:26,760
it's not going to be profitable. It's up to

1621
01:44:26,760 --> 01:44:29,220
19 cents per kilowatt hour on average

1622
01:44:29,220 --> 01:44:32,700
in U.S. cities. You're kidding.

1623
01:44:33,380 --> 01:44:35,460
Is that retail pricing?

1624
01:44:36,420 --> 01:44:39,240
It's not industrial. Average price electricity per kilowatt hour

1625
01:44:39,240 --> 01:44:40,240
in U.S. city average.

1626
01:44:41,120 --> 01:44:43,760
But this is

1627
01:44:43,760 --> 01:44:47,200
not a good chart for the United States.

1628
01:44:47,200 --> 01:44:49,240
and not only... I mean, unless Bitcoin's

1629
01:44:49,240 --> 01:44:51,340
a million dollars with the current hash rate,

1630
01:44:51,440 --> 01:44:53,200
then it's fine. Yeah, then it's fine.

1631
01:44:53,260 --> 01:44:54,780
But I think this is a

1632
01:44:54,780 --> 01:44:57,040
bigger problem for the U.S. generally. I think

1633
01:44:57,040 --> 01:44:59,200
electricity is the raw input of... Yeah, we

1634
01:44:59,200 --> 01:45:01,120
gotta build it. Everything. We gotta

1635
01:45:01,120 --> 01:45:02,880
build net gas plants. We gotta

1636
01:45:02,880 --> 01:45:05,280
reinstitute our coal plants.

1637
01:45:05,460 --> 01:45:07,120
We gotta... I mean, nuclear. I don't

1638
01:45:07,120 --> 01:45:09,140
even like talking about nuclear. It's just so

1639
01:45:09,140 --> 01:45:10,480
state-captured.

1640
01:45:11,380 --> 01:45:13,400
Build natural gas plants. Build coal plants.

1641
01:45:15,060 --> 01:45:16,960
Build solar plants. I don't care. Build solar plants.

1642
01:45:17,200 --> 01:45:22,280
great yeah no but we i mean we've longed a lot of our conversations have been about cpi and how

1643
01:45:22,280 --> 01:45:28,100
it's bunk and it's funny because you get this info from the federal reserve and the source is the bls

1644
01:45:28,100 --> 01:45:34,580
which creates the cpi and you just look at this cost per per one hour in cities and it's up 35 40

1645
01:45:34,580 --> 01:45:42,340
percent in five years that doesn't seem like what's actually being reported we need more generation

1646
01:45:42,340 --> 01:45:48,920
and i wrote about this chart last week because i had a feeling an intuition a knowledge that

1647
01:45:48,920 --> 01:45:55,420
electricity prices were going up based off of my monthly payment but i hadn't taken the time to

1648
01:45:55,420 --> 01:46:01,760
look at this chart and it's jarring this that's i mean this jump and then this one here it looks

1649
01:46:01,760 --> 01:46:08,020
like we're breaking away again uh-huh it's going straight up yeah that's the wrong type of uh up

1650
01:46:08,020 --> 01:46:14,960
to the right well i mean well we also have a new entrant into the space that is not price sensitive

1651
01:46:14,960 --> 01:46:20,840
no and but they also i mean you know so much more about this and they're burning so much like i

1652
01:46:20,840 --> 01:46:28,120
wonder like they're at some point they will become that yeah but it is crazy because as we discussed

1653
01:46:28,120 --> 01:46:33,220
here like the productivity of ai is undeniable undeniable like you've seen the videos we've

1654
01:46:33,220 --> 01:46:37,660
generated it's like we have a team of three yeah we're generating videos that probably would have

1655
01:46:37,660 --> 01:46:45,280
cost tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in a week for $200 of tokens

1656
01:46:45,280 --> 01:46:53,760
sure it's insane but with that being said there's a ton of it's just the this sector of the market

1657
01:46:53,760 --> 01:46:58,320
is being flooded with money whether or not these companies are actually profitable and burning this

1658
01:46:58,320 --> 01:47:02,780
much cash is sustainable I think is yet to be determined yeah I mean

1659
01:47:02,780 --> 01:47:10,780
i know that the programming side of it is sustainable because you know if you're paying

1660
01:47:10,780 --> 01:47:17,400
a mid-level programmer two hundred thousand dollars a year and you can profitably sell them

1661
01:47:17,400 --> 01:47:24,240
an ai agent you know for 300 bucks a month it's like that's a no-brainer you know and uh some of

1662
01:47:24,240 --> 01:47:29,220
the other applications for it you know uh i don't know if that'll be profitable but certainly for the

1663
01:47:29,220 --> 01:47:31,360
programming world, it's going to be profitable.

1664
01:47:33,480 --> 01:47:37,320
And, you know, I'll also say, you know, one of the fun things is, you know,

1665
01:47:37,320 --> 01:47:40,260
I know everyone knows you as, you know, Uncle Marty, the podcaster,

1666
01:47:40,420 --> 01:47:43,360
but like you're also quite the product guy, you know, like we,

1667
01:47:43,380 --> 01:47:44,640
we got to do this a lot together.

1668
01:47:44,800 --> 01:47:47,600
And even the stuff we played with really early on,

1669
01:47:47,640 --> 01:47:55,080
I remember the Vercel tool VO or V0 that now is just incredible.

1670
01:47:55,080 --> 01:48:02,720
Just getting over the one hump of you can't iterate on a previously done image or CSS file.

1671
01:48:02,820 --> 01:48:04,020
You had to start over from scratch.

1672
01:48:04,100 --> 01:48:09,000
And now that you can actually go from something and not just say, no, try it again, be better here.

1673
01:48:09,080 --> 01:48:10,800
It's just like, no, take this bit of it.

1674
01:48:12,140 --> 01:48:18,940
Building UIs and building mobile flows and stuff like that, it's crazy.

1675
01:48:19,280 --> 01:48:23,400
I mean, we were playing with that like nine months ago, and I was like, eh, it's almost useful.

1676
01:48:23,900 --> 01:48:24,500
And now it's great.

1677
01:48:24,500 --> 01:48:29,360
And you're able to employ not just in your videos, but you have to set up web stores and you have to do all this other stuff.

1678
01:48:29,720 --> 01:48:31,280
I'm sure you're using it there, too.

1679
01:48:31,820 --> 01:48:32,600
Yeah, we are.

1680
01:48:33,120 --> 01:48:33,280
Yeah.

1681
01:48:33,460 --> 01:48:37,560
And I remember I vividly remember you pulling me into the room in the park.

1682
01:48:37,680 --> 01:48:39,960
And it was just for wireframing, but it was crazy.

1683
01:48:40,320 --> 01:48:41,700
Even then, hell, you were.

1684
01:48:41,700 --> 01:48:43,100
Yeah, that was incredible.

1685
01:48:43,460 --> 01:48:45,640
And then they had some open source models that we played with.

1686
01:48:46,060 --> 01:48:48,680
I'm very bullish on the open source side right now as well.

1687
01:48:49,540 --> 01:48:50,420
I watch.

1688
01:48:50,540 --> 01:48:51,220
I have some friends.

1689
01:48:51,380 --> 01:48:54,160
And I've seen Tony and the Maple AI guys.

1690
01:48:54,160 --> 01:48:58,240
exclusively focus on the open source models

1691
01:48:58,240 --> 01:49:02,200
in their private AI chats, but also

1692
01:49:02,200 --> 01:49:06,160
people running them locally. That's

1693
01:49:06,160 --> 01:49:07,620
looking like

1694
01:49:07,620 --> 01:49:13,120
something that we didn't get with the first wave of the internet.

1695
01:49:13,600 --> 01:49:17,900
You never got private search. It didn't really make sense.

1696
01:49:18,680 --> 01:49:22,220
There is a side of the

1697
01:49:22,220 --> 01:49:29,700
AI side that is actually exciting and sort of antithetical to the way early

1698
01:49:29,700 --> 01:49:35,380
internet companies grew by basically monetizing spying on you.

1699
01:49:35,380 --> 01:49:35,860
Right.

1700
01:49:36,280 --> 01:49:40,660
And that while a lot of these AI companies are going to spy on you,

1701
01:49:40,720 --> 01:49:46,060
no doubt is that you actually have an ultra like a viable alternative here,

1702
01:49:46,060 --> 01:49:47,760
which is very exciting.

1703
01:49:48,580 --> 01:49:48,740
Yeah.

1704
01:49:49,440 --> 01:49:52,200
It's I'm happy where I'm at.

1705
01:49:52,220 --> 01:49:57,940
on this very gloomy first half of the conversation but there are things to be optimistic about we have

1706
01:49:57,940 --> 01:50:04,260
tools to make the world a better place to make better products to yeah do things never doom

1707
01:50:04,260 --> 01:50:12,100
never doom never doom things may be dark go to church have kids yeah yeah if the way charlie

1708
01:50:12,100 --> 01:50:17,480
would have wanted you to that was yeah right there yeah wanted here you enjoy your day yeah you too

1709
01:50:17,480 --> 01:50:24,340
man. Be passionate. Go to zaprate.com. Check out the ticketing app. If you're a Bitcoin or a

1710
01:50:24,340 --> 01:50:27,900
business owner and you're not using zaprate for invoicing, do it. I've been using it for

1711
01:50:27,900 --> 01:50:34,420
three years now and it's only gotten better. Our revenue in Bitcoin is going up consistently

1712
01:50:34,420 --> 01:50:42,400
as it's just big. I think it's just, I think it's just the thing of marketing,

1713
01:50:42,500 --> 01:50:47,340
how many touch points until you get a conversion for us, how many zaprate invoices with the pain

1714
01:50:47,340 --> 01:50:51,100
bitcoin option we have to get before people just say i'll pay in bitcoin we've seen that go up

1715
01:50:51,100 --> 01:50:56,460
i love hearing that that just makes me so happy yeah but thank you for building it

1716
01:50:56,460 --> 01:50:59,440
you're welcome all right peace and love freaks