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Having more diversity is not some woke idea.

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It's more of a security principle.

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And so my favorite way of talking about it is informed by the context I come from,

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which is working on security in the Bitcoin network.

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Hey everybody, Frank here.

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Just wanted to drop a quick message before we get started with this episode.

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First, I wanted to say thank you to everyone who's been tuning in.

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Our listener and watcher base continues to grow, and we really appreciate your attention.

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If you could hit the like and subscribe button, that would help even more people find us,

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which we would greatly appreciate.

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And also, if you could leave a comment or a review, that would be even more helpful.

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So thank you in advance, and thank you again to everyone who has been tuning in.

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Second, I just wanted to say this episode is a little bit different than most new Renaissance Capital episodes.

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Usually we look at Bitcoin adoption in one particular country.

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For this episode, we're going to be looking at the well-being of open source developers

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and how Amiti Uthawar, founder of Way, is supporting these open source developers.

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I think it's 150 of these developers in total from over 35 countries.

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So in a sense, this episode is focused on something global, the well-being of these developers, but just not focused on one particular country this time around.

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Thirdly, we had some technical difficulties with this recording.

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That's all been smoothed out in the editing, but I just wanted to let you know that towards the end of the episode, you'll see Amiti's outfit shift from one outfit to the other.

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It's because we had to stop recording one day and then re-record the end of the episode on a second day.

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So just wanted to alleviate any potential confusion there.

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And then finally, if you have any cool leads for me about really cool stuff happening with Bitcoin adoption around the world, please email me at newrentcap at gmail.com.

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That's N-E-W-R-E-N-C-A-P at gmail.com.

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I would love to hear about anything cool that's happening again with especially grassroots Bitcoin adoption.

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All right.

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I think that was everything.

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With that said, let us get to this interview, to this episode.

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Here is my conversation with Amiti Otharwar, founder of Way.

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All right. Welcome, everybody.

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I am here today with the special guest, Amiti Otharwar.

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I'm super, super excited for this conversation because I really, really like the topic of psychology,

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psychosocial coaching, mental health, all this stuff mixed up.

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I have a bit of a background in it myself, so super, super excited to have this conversation with Amiti today.

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Amiti, just a quick introduction here.

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Amiti was the first confirmed female Bitcoin core dev, but she has since pivoted from doing technical work in the open source community.

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She's now coaching developers.

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She's an executive coach for developers, providing them with psychosocial support.

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I believe she's working with upwards of 150 devs from 35 different countries, which is quite exciting.

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and I was very inspired to have this conversation after I saw her present at the Human Rights

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Foundation's Global Bitcoin Summit, where she did a little bit of an overview of what

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she does and kind of an hour-long, I think I'll let you describe what it was, but basically

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like a little bit of an overview of what she does as well as kind of a walkthrough of ways

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to preserve your mental health if you're working as an open source developer in the community.

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and I don't want this just to be about developers

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because I think there's plenty about working in Bitcoin

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that challenges our mental health.

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So we'll talk a little bit more broadly about it as well.

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But I will stop rambling right there.

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Hand the mic over to Amiti.

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Amiti, if you could please introduce yourself,

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I would greatly appreciate it.

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Yeah, hi.

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Thanks for having me on.

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Okay, so the workshop at GBS,

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that was so much fun.

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It was called Rewiring Burnout,

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the neuroscience of staying in flow and had a lot to do with practical techniques from

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the world of neuroscience that I've been nerding out about. Huge disclaimer, I am not a neuroscientist.

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I have no reason to be going around talking about neuroscience other than I find it very

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interesting and I am a nerd. Certified. She has her license and everything.

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Yeah, exactly. Just check my GitHub.

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Let's go.

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It's an open source certification.

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But with Way, Way is a nonprofit that was started a year, a year and a half ago.

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And with that, we've been exploring how to find different techniques from the world around and bring it to our community of permissionless builders.

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So I know there's the word dev everywhere, but we have seen that the actual kind of grouping of similarity has to do more with working not just in open source, but working in this permissionless way.

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There's a lot of essentially solopreneurship.

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We don't necessarily use that term, but that's a lot of what's happening.

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And so devs are a big part of it.

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a lot of these devs, you know, my past self included, but working on the grant ecosystem,

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you have to be some level of solopreneur. You might not be a Instagram creator or running,

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starting a company, although many people are leading different apps, whether in the Bitcoin

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ecosystem, Nostra ecosystem. But there is this element of having to navigate all the different

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parts of your job that if you were working in a traditional company, it wouldn't be as

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boundless. So I think something I've really enjoyed about working in Bitcoin is that

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I get to decide what I think is the most important. It's not being told to me by some boss CEO or OKR

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or OK, now pivot, stop working on what you were working on for the last two weeks and work on this

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mission critical, whatever, I get to decide. And sometimes I do pivot. Sometimes I do get that

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feedback, but it is in my judgment and discernment. And that feels very empowering in an individual

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manner. And it feels really important in a collective manner because we can have

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various ideas of what's important. Different people can put forward work of what's important.

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But then there's also this flip side of it. Our research paper done by Laura Lotti, amazing researcher, she has kind of coined this term, the tyranny of permissionlessness.

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And the idea here is that the same values that attract us all into this ecosystem, when gone unchecked, can actually be the source of huge challenge.

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And over the last years, we are seeing a rise of it.

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so many people are experiencing burnout. And we've seen, I think there was, I should go remember,

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but was there a New York Times article about how several maintainers of Bitcoin

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stepped away citing burnout? It was in some large publication.

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Sure. I mean, if they were doing it to say that working for Bitcoin is bad,

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then I would not be surprised to have seen it in the New York Times. But yeah, I remember you

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talking about this and I remember hearing it where I remember hearing about this I should say

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could have been the New York Times I'll look into it maybe include in the show notes if we can find

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it let me know I should remember but anyway that's all right it's it's clearly on the rise

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in conferences on Twitter in our community in individual conversations I think that

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I've definitely heard tons but um way kind of came out of of this uh way was founded

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I mean, Way became a concept walking out of the Oslo Freedom Forum in 2024, where a lot of people in this community said, you have to make this a thing.

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Everyone's talking about the problems, but you're the only one talking about solutions.

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And so I was like, OK, I guess I'm starting an org.

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And so far, I've just been figuring out what that means.

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But anyways, we have some time to dig into all of this.

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This was a bit of a ramble.

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I don't think I really introduced myself.

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Yeah, there'll be a little bit about you and about what you're doing, but we'll get into more of both as we go along here.

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It's super, super exciting. And I just want to reiterate on my behalf here, I was an educator for a while and training to be a clinical social worker.

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So working with people, I find super, super fascinating. And I think the work you're doing, I can't wait to sort of continue to watch it unfold and to talk to you about it.

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but I want to dive into some of that today.

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But before we get into that work in particular,

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what I'm curious is a little bit of,

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if you could just give a little bit of your technical background

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and maybe what led you to Bitcoin.

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And I only ask for that, not so that we dive so far into it,

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but just to kind of contextualize for the audience,

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you're working with these developers who are doing this work you once did.

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So I just want to give them a little bit of an overview of your experience

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doing that work before we talk about the ways in which you're helping

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the people you work with.

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Yeah, totally. So I was a Bitcoin Core contributor full time for many years. I think my first PR was merged into Bitcoin Core at the end of 2018. And then I, from then on, I primarily worked on Bitcoin Core. It took me some time to become full time.

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That was 2019 was when I became, was able to quit my fiat job and work on Bitcoin Core, where I focused on the peer-to-peer network.

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And I was doing that up until starting way.

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And yeah, so my area of focus was the P2P network, which essentially, you know, Bitcoin is a bunch of computers all over the world running software.

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and that software somehow creates a ledger that's agreed upon.

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And a lot of that is determined by consensus like the blockchain and the mechanisms of that.

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But a lot of that is also heavily influenced by peer-to-peer logic.

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So questions like, who do I connect to?

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And how do I know if they are malicious or if they are actually serving me information from the real blockchain?

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How do I send transactions and get them onto the network so it can be mined while maintaining my privacy so somebody cannot link my Bitcoin address with my real world identity?

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These kinds of questions around network level operations are the domain of P2P. And that's where I happily focused and tinkered. I did a lot in terms of privacy and security. Those were my main focuses was trying to make sure the system is resilient for the long term.

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Appreciate that. And thank you for the work that you did as a Bitcoin user. Not as the host, but as a Bitcoin user.

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Thank you. That's great.

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No, it's really, really inspiring work to me. I'm not a super technical minded person. So I'm quite grateful to people like yourself out there who are doing this extremely important work.

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And just to clarify for the audience, too, when you talked, you mentioned your fiat job. From what I read, I think you did some work in Silicon Valley. Is that when you say fiat job, is it working for traditional software companies that or startups or something in that world that was your quote unquote fiat job?

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uh yeah i it was a series of uh i mean you know i was working for a while i worked at different

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startups in silicon valley um the one that i was working on when i first started falling down the

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bitcoin rabbit hole was actually really cool this platform called simbi which was an online

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marketplace for trading and bartering goods and services primarily focused on services

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and there is where I really started to question what is money, what is the utility of it versus

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the idea of it that we currently have because there were some ways in which I felt more able

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to be rich through a bartering services economy. For example, I have never been certified in yoga

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and so I should not like I would not take money to teach yoga but it's something that I'm have

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been studying independently has brought me a lot of benefit happy to share with friends and family

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and on Simbi I would teach people yoga and I would get massages and so to me I was just like

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getting a free massage but the other side of it was cool too I was like wait what do you mean I

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have something I can share. And I realized that, yeah, I mean, it had been over a decade that I

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had learned about yoga. And sometimes people don't need a certified expert. What they need is

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personalized attention. And sitting there and being like, oh, that post doesn't work for you?

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Okay, let's figure out one that does, was more valuable than going to a class with somebody who

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is more experienced, you know, it comes with its own caveats. But it that that working on that

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platform really challenged my ideas of, of money, economy, expertise, those sorts of things. And it

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was actually a user of the platform that came into our office and was like, you all need to learn

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about Bitcoin. And orange pilled me and I think did an amazing job because the next thing I was

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doing was reading the white paper. And ever since then, I was curious, like, what is this thing

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kept falling down the curiosity rabbit hole that led me to working on the crypto team at Coinbase.

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And that was my last job where I had conventional, you know, bosses and managers and

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performance reviews and health benefits and things like that before I started working on Bitcoin.

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Amazing. So you work on Bitcoin. You work on Bitcoin for a number of years starting, I think you said, 2018. You had your first PR merged. You then you've since, as we just talked about, shifted over to providing this psychosocial support via way. I'm assuming that maybe given that you're now trying to help people not burn out, maybe you went through this yourself. Is that potentially what happened? Yeah, you're laughing. So I'm assuming that could have been the case. Yeah.

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Yeah, I mean, I wonder, I don't really know. Burnout is such an umbrella term. And it depends what we mean by it, right? And so I have had periods of time where I've stepped away from working on the project. And so I think we could totally call that burnout. But also, I don't know that I necessarily perceive it as such.

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um so yeah i don't know but i definitely have gone through some things there's been a lot of

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awesome stuff about working in this ecosystem and there's been a lot of huge challenges as well

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and in my own experience firsthand having lived through some of the challenges i have a very

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nuanced perspective as well as having talked to a lot of people and witnessed a lot of journeys i

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have that exposure as well. But I think that way is very organically created. But I also feel like

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it was a bit more informed by my journey of doing mentorship and then seeing that something else was

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more valuable than technical mentorship. And that kind of led to it. So there was an element of

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solving problems, but there was also an element of kind of leveling up both myself as well as others.

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and curiosity around like,

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rather than having to always solve this as individuals,

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what does it mean like to get systemic support

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in a different decentralized development ecosystem,

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which is a new model.

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We've had open source for a long time,

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but the decentralized development ecosystem

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of Bitcoin and friends,

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which like Bitcoin and now Nostra,

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to me still I haven't seen examples of that existing previously.

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Okay. So your pivot to doing this work is more a matter of you feeling that you're more currently more valuable doing something like this, especially because there's really nobody serving this need. Maybe need isn't the exact word, but nobody sort of playing this role, doing this thing that you find very important and necessary at this point versus sort of you went through it yourself. So you want to be there for other people who are going through it. Is that a fair way to put it?

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yeah yeah yeah totally yeah i mean i i think there are elements of number two but um definitely

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and i would totally say need i think people in the community convinced me that this is a need

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and that's why i said okay i'll give it a shot um but i also saw that myself you know amazing and

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i think you also touched on something really cool we'll pull on it a little bit more in a second but

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I think you made a really good point when you were talking about providing a service to somebody else and sometimes just providing someone attention is maybe more important than having the proper credentials or doing whatever.

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And I think that level of sort of I'm focusing on you, I'm in this present moment with you trying to help you correct your posture in yoga or do whatever or just to be there for you, I think really does have a tremendous amount of value that's often overlooked, whether it's by professionals who educate or by mental health professionals.

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I think there is something really to be said about that.

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So just wanted to highlight that.

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That's really important.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So you decide to do this.

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you decide to do what you're doing with the way do you go through any training do you start

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educating yourself about it what is the process like to to bringing way to to bring what yeah so

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there's kind of two different journeys or timelines we can talk about one was the journey into

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coaching myself and that uh was this organic process where i um you know when i came on to

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the bitcoin scene i received a lot of attention for being the first woman and it's kind of ironic

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because um i've been a female in male-dominated spaces my whole life uh primarily computer science

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But I also do a bunch of intense mountaineering, which is also very male dominated.

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But never has my gender been so talked about.

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Yeah.

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Been here, right?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And it was done so in a very positive way where people are like, congratulations, what a success, blah, blah, blah.

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But I was kind of like, no, this is a failure of us as a community.

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It's 2019 and we have no women.

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like just like straight up 50% not represented in the builders of this thing that we call global

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money like that's so dumb and so I was curious from day zero of how do we get more and people

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would ask me left and right how do we get more women I was like I don't know I'm here I think

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this is dope like I don't know why everybody else is in I like how you just used the word dope too

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by the way that was that fantastic yeah anyway please please continue yeah um so um yeah so i i did a lot of kind of working with other women who are interested technical mentorship etc But over time I realized that the technical mentorship wasn what was the highest leverage or the most impactful

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It was something else.

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and it i now have better understanding or words for it where when you have amazing problem solvers

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people who are are devs who are working at the bitcoin core level if they can't solve a technical

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problem the solution is so rarely actually technical usually there's some kind of psychological

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technical blocker that it's some sort of narrative that's restricting you that prevents you from being

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able to source your own solution. Because especially, I mean, at this point in time,

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AI has taken over the world. Like, if you could solve a problem and the solution's out there,

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you can find it, you know? And so when it does feel like I'm blocked by something technical,

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Well, I've just seen higher leverage and impact around going a little deeper of why are you not able to solve this yourself when you know you're an incredible problem solver.

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And I think that started with how I did my own work in Bitcoin Core.

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I worked on some incredibly complicated P2P stuff.

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but repeatedly I saw that when I couldn't figure something out it was rarely code or C++ that was

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this blocker it was much more my own state of mind and colloquially we know this right like

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the amount of times if you ask any dev that you've gone to bed like I can't figure out this bug and

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I've been working on it for three hours and then you wake up and you're like oh right and beyond

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And devs, like we've all experienced some flavor of this.

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So anyways, in trying to support other people in their onboarding journey, it was a lot of women.

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And I was also very passionate about people from other countries.

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When I started contributing to Bitcoin Core, there were no contributors, like full-time contributors from all of Asia, from all of Africa, and all of South America.

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So it was really narrow.

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The representation has gotten a lot better in the past several years.

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But yeah, working with these communities, I just saw what was more impactful was something else.

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And over time, began calling that something else coaching.

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Because I was like, it's not technical mentorship, but like, what is it?

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And then as I was doing this new thing that I started calling coaching, eventually started away from the community saying, hey, this needs to be more widely available.

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The results you're talking about, the possibilities you're talking about is much needed in this community.

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then I started looking at, okay, how do we make it kind of a systemic offering rather than an

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individual one? And that query is what WAI is. And so we've made a lot of awesome progress in

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the past year. Some of those stats you mentioned at the beginning, I want to clarify. It's like

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Way who's supported over 150 FreedomTech builders from over 35 countries. I think I need to update

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those stats. I suspect it's more like over 200 and over 40 countries at this point, but

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just trying to keep up. There's been incredible engagement, incredible stories of impact. People

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are really taking this and running with it. And it's so humbling and so inspiring to get to work

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with incredible builders and see them level up.

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And some of it are people who are like, oh, my God, I'm burnt out or I'm on the verge

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of it who are able to kind of transform and reignite.

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And others are people who are like, I'm going strong.

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But like, OK, what is this stuff?

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And then find out that they can level up.

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You know, so that's I was reading one of the programs.

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I'm going to read you some because I was reading this for somebody asked me the other

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day. And I was so just humbled and shook, like, by what people said. So some people, like,

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like this group program we have called OS Reboot, what people described it as participants in their

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own words. They said that it's metacognitive work. Somebody said it's cheating at life.

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It's a guided group where you are in your journey of self-improvement, a group to level up your

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thinking, somewhere to stay accountable to. But then in terms of the feedback that they give,

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like, can you summarize the biggest impact that the program had on you?

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Some of the answers were things like,

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linear growth was not going to get me to where I needed to go.

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This is a good reality.

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These are different ones.

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This is a good reality check that work is holistically part of me

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and demands more of me and can elevate me.

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somebody else said this made them reconsider how they were approaching the project that they were

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launching and because of that they've been able to get exponentially more work done

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and and here just one more I mean I can I can keep going for a while but

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this is the realization that when you care about the work you're doing and its impact on the world

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this implies a different psychological frame than most people inhabit so you need a different set of

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strategies than normal advice making work-life balance a goal in its own right has never felt

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relatable to me i've always chosen to do the work i do because i find it valuable enough to spend my

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life doing it putting so much creativity and so much energy into creative work is something i want

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to do and i appreciated that this approach suggested in the program didn't talk me out of

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maintaining this identity and so like and then some of the takeaways just a couple more is like

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like identity shift is bigger than coping strategies linear growth is for chimps

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focus on the essential use leverage being effective is not doing more of the same but better

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impact requires experimentation and course correction 10x is easier than 2x um so anyways

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That's super organic. I didn't prepare it. This is literally just pulled off of our final feedback form of one program. I need to do better at like compiling and sharing. But I was just reading that last night because somebody was asking me about something and it was like, oh, my God, it's so humbling what people are doing with this material. And so that's what lights me up.

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That's amazing. And I think that's actually really I'm happy that you read all those because it gets I think it's a really good example of like it's not like you're sitting there working through childhood trauma with devs.

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You're talking about mindset shifts and different ways of conceptualizing what they're doing, which I think is really important.

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not only the work itself, but the distinction between you're not their psychotherapist or

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their therapist, you're helping them to sort of reframe, reconceptualize what they're doing in

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efforts to do it better, to feel more comfortable in their own skin doing it, all this kind of stuff.

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And it's really, really inspiring and super cool to see. I don't want to stray too far from the

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point you made about women. I want to touch on it quickly for two reasons. One, I saw you recently,

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I think you did a session with the Bitcoin Dada group.

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And I recently wrote a piece focused on that group,

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not only Bitcoin Dada, but Dada devs.

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So for those unfamiliar with these groups,

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Dada is Swahili for women in, I'm sorry, yeah, Swahili for women.

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And this program is run by a woman named Lorraine Marcel in Kenya.

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And it's a program for African women.

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Bitcoin Dada is a program for African women to learn about Bitcoin.

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Dada Devs is a program to help get women, African women, to start developing on Bitcoin.

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And she's recently done this really cool thing where she's actually trying to create now a physical space in Nairobi and Kenya for these women to work together.

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And, you know, I wrote this piece, Making Space for Women, Female Bitcoin Developers, because I think to your point, you know, even still, you maybe knocked down certain walls and, you know, your first confirmed female Bitcoin core developer.

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Great stuff. Exciting. As you said, it's kind of weird that nine years into Bitcoin, you're the first confirmed female working on it.

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But OK, that's like a story for another day.

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You know, but it was weird.

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You know, I published this piece and I get a lot of people pushing back, like, you know, keep this woke stuff out of Bitcoin.

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Why would Bitcoin need African women?

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Just ignorant bullshit, to be blunt.

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I'm sorry about the language.

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But is that still just deeply prevalent?

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Do most women feel that that's the case?

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And I'll say one last thing before I pass it over to you is, you know, when Lorraine Marcel started this program,

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I was talking to her about it and the women, the developers were like, we want a space as developers, much like the space you gave us when we were just learning about Bitcoin.

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We want that space for it to be not only women, but African women in this situation where they're comfortable working with one another.

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You know, a lot of times we talk about Bitcoin as global open system, freedom, money.

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But on the social level of it, these women still don't feel comfortable just being a part of the broader community.

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They want some space for themselves.

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I don't I don't want to say that, actually.

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Let me let me rewind.

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They do want to be part of the broader community.

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But in doing their work, they also want to save space to do the work that they're doing and to sort of be maybe in a place where they don't feel judged or put into a certain container, whatever it may be.

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I don't want to put words or or I don't want to put words in their mouths.

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So what is this dynamic? Why does it still exist? Shouldn't we be on this sort of open permissionless network? Shouldn't we be embracing a diversity of developers and input? And if we should be, why is that not necessarily happening?

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Yeah, totally.

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Bitcoin network. So nodes themselves, one of the fundamental questions of a Bitcoin node

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running in a peer-to-peer network of unknown size, unknown trustability, yet you have to connect to

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nodes in a way that you're not going to fall over, like you're not going to be DOS attacked,

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and you're staying connected to the main chain. Then on top of that, hopefully you're able to

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maintain some level of privacy. And our main mechanism for ensuring security of am I connected

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to the main chain, the most fundamental question of Bitcoin, like the blockchain can be perfect,

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but if you are connected to one entity, then that's an eclipse attack. And the amount of

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different issues that they can create if you're eclipsed is like practically infinite. It might

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take some time, but they can, you're not on the main chain. You're not even participating in the

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Bitcoin network. That's how fundamental this is, right? Could I clarify for maybe some of the

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technical minded people out there, or could I ask you to clarify? So what happened? You spin up a

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node, you believe that you're interacting, engaging with the main chain, but you're not necessarily,

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what is actually happening in this scenario that you're talking about?

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Yeah, there's a couple different ways that it could happen. An eclipse attack is essentially

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the idea where you think you're connected to several different entities, but you're really

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connected to just one entity. And then if you have one malicious entity between you and your

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perception of the network, then different things they can do. They can make sure your transactions

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never actually make it to the network. They can make sure you don't get the blocks. They can make

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sure that like they can have a really long time to mine fake blocks. So your idea of the ledger

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is no longer the actual ledger.

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Like, essentially, there are some mechanisms that matter

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in terms of Bitcoin that are part of Bitcoin's brilliance,

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but the amount of damage they can do is pretty unbounded, you know?

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And so that's one main one.

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Also, there could be, like, partition attacks,

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which if there's a partition,

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whether intentional and malicious or unintentional, you essentially have multiple different ledgers.

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And I personally think that if that occurred, it's game over for Bitcoin. So these are pretty fatal.

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Big issues. And now I'm anxious, too. So I'm going to get off this topic. I'm just kidding.

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This, I think, is a different rabbit hole we could go down, but I would love to maybe just

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bring it back to what you were saying. You were using this as an analogy or a metaphor for the

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situation with the female Bitcoin developers. Just wanted to maybe bring it back if you don't mind.

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Yeah, yeah, of course. So basically, these are worst case things that we don't want to happen.

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And as a P2P dev, worked a lot on preventing those thinking about it ways it could, right?

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The main strategy for as a node, what you do, and this is in your individual best interest,

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as well as in the network topology best interest.

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The main strategy is to diversify your peers.

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On the P2P level, any information you can get a hold of,

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what's their IP address, what's the ASN range of them,

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what's the ping time, who provided me the last block,

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any information, what kind of connection is it that you can get a hold of,

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You just try to diversify as much as possible along all indices.

356
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That's it.

357
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That's our security principle that runs Bitcoin Core and runs the Bitcoin network.

358
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I have a question here because this is something I think about often.

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So I'm not just asking this for the sake of the show and the listener, but for myself here.

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So when I think a lot about this, I often go over to ChainCodeLabs, where I think you actually worked for a little bit.

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beautiful on the 38th floor or something in this gorgeous building in New York,

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overlooks New York City, all this kind of stuff.

363
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It feels kind of very ivory tower-ish, if you will.

364
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It's very sort of like, here's a place where the really smart developers go.

365
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But that almost feels a little bit antithetical to Bitcoin.

366
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Don't we want the brainpower that's working, that's contributing to Bitcoin

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to be spread out around the world?

368
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So when you talk about diversification, is that what you're referencing to some level?

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that we want people from around the world to feel welcome to contributing to this,

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that it's actually necessary for the security of Bitcoin for that to be the case,

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for people, for there to be some sort of, at the very least, sort of people spread out jurisdictionally,

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but also from an input standpoint that people are looking at problems through all different lenses

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and all different lived experiences and then addressing those problems in those ways.

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Is that a little bit of what you're getting at here,

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or am I just taking that and running with it in some strange direction?

376
00:37:06,206 --> 00:37:25,006
No, absolutely right. If we want Bitcoin to be resilient for the long term, then the people who are building it and we need developers, that whole idea of ossification is extremely ungrounded because security is an arms race and privacy is an arms race.

377
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and that is completely true in the digital world and so maintaining software is also something that

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doesn't just end so maintenance privacy and security are things that are going to need to

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be ongoing even if you think the feature set doesn't need to change so we need developers

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okay then who if you want resilience then what you want is a diversity of perspectives

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And that's harder to measure. That's harder to evaluate. So what you can do at minimum is make sure there's diversity on indices that are easier to measure.

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You can make sure that gender is varied, that cultural context and geographic population is varied, which is not to say that places like Chaincode can't exist.

383
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But it would be a very, very different conversation if Chaincode was the only place that Bitcoin developers were making impact versus Chaincode being one of the places that Bitcoin developers are making impact.

384
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like taking it to the other extreme and saying no to bitcoin developers can talk to each other

385
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because then they're just going to have the same narrow perspective would also be irrational and

386
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harmful you know so it is about finding a balance of non-homogeneous thought and so

387
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this to me is a security principle it's not some like woke agenda i'm not saying

388
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let's employ people based on exactly how they look or where they're from.

389
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It's let's have high-quality contributors who come from different backgrounds

390
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because that's the only way we're going to meet the goal of being global money.

391
00:39:26,006 --> 00:39:28,406
Beautifully put. I appreciate that. Thank you.

392
00:39:29,646 --> 00:39:31,306
It's comforting to hear from you.

393
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It's a thought that I have often, but as someone who has worked on Bitcoin, it's very comforting to hear that.

394
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One of the things that I often think about here is, generally speaking, I think it can be difficult or trying to work in the Bitcoin space because you're building on a network that's largely misunderstood.

395
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You're building a new form of money unlike anything the world has ever seen.

396
00:39:56,306 --> 00:39:58,686
Most of the world still thinks Bitcoin is a scam.

397
00:39:58,686 --> 00:40:23,626
And I'm thinking on a certain level, is there a, whether you're a developer, an open source dev, or maybe you're an activist, or maybe you're running a Bitcoin circular economy, or you're doing what Lorraine Marcel is doing with Bitcoin data, is there a mental health, are there mental health challenges that innately come with that, doing something that, I wouldn't call it countercultural so much anymore, but it's definitely not the norm.

398
00:40:23,626 --> 00:40:35,286
I mean, I know that Bitcoin is becoming a little bit better understood, a little bit more well known, but some of the culture, it's still a relatively small group of people, you know, compared to the global population.

399
00:40:35,846 --> 00:40:45,586
Are there psychological challenges that come with that in and of itself being looked at by the mainstream population as different as what are you doing over there?

400
00:40:45,626 --> 00:40:46,486
What's happening over there?

401
00:40:46,666 --> 00:40:47,906
Why are you talking about privacy?

402
00:40:48,006 --> 00:40:48,706
What do you have to hide?

403
00:40:48,806 --> 00:40:50,346
Why do you want to use a different kind of money?

404
00:40:50,386 --> 00:40:51,606
What's wrong with the money we have?

405
00:40:51,606 --> 00:40:56,866
it does all that great on anyone like i said from devs to some of the people maybe doing some of the

406
00:40:56,866 --> 00:41:01,266
educational work on the front lines or activism work or running a circular economy

407
00:41:01,266 --> 00:41:07,366
yeah i mean well the life of an activist is really easy

408
00:41:07,366 --> 00:41:11,826
super relaxing martinis and lawn chairs yeah

409
00:41:11,826 --> 00:41:21,586
um yeah and so i would say the cognitive burdens are very real uh definitely i think there are

410
00:41:21,586 --> 00:41:30,326
a lot of mental health challenges that people face um but i i am kind of careful to to acknowledge

411
00:41:30,326 --> 00:41:46,452
like my limitations in speaking to like exactly the mental health side of things like i think the world would be a better place if everybody had a therapist they love uh I not trained in any of that And so I do want to kind of like be careful

412
00:41:46,572 --> 00:41:49,892
And I think people's experiences are so individualized, right?

413
00:41:50,212 --> 00:41:51,852
It's not just what you're working on.

414
00:41:51,872 --> 00:41:54,192
It's also like your lifetime of context.

415
00:41:55,112 --> 00:41:59,512
But that said, I definitely think there's plenty about like shared cognitive burdens

416
00:41:59,512 --> 00:42:01,032
that we can talk more about.

417
00:42:01,032 --> 00:42:07,292
is this loops back a little bit to being a builder in this space,

418
00:42:08,032 --> 00:42:08,992
permissionless builders.

419
00:42:08,992 --> 00:42:14,492
And that feels like the focus of who it is supporting.

420
00:42:14,972 --> 00:42:18,432
It's people building freedom technology.

421
00:42:19,312 --> 00:42:23,912
And part of that is doing it in a permissionless or unaffiliated way.

422
00:42:25,572 --> 00:42:28,872
There are a lot of cognitive burdens.

423
00:42:28,872 --> 00:42:35,552
some of them are shared by all for example the struggle of being a solopreneur means you have to

424
00:42:35,552 --> 00:42:40,152
you have to figure out what you're working on figure out how you're going to work on it

425
00:42:40,152 --> 00:42:47,792
figure out when you work on it figure out who you work on it with figure out how you talk about

426
00:42:47,792 --> 00:42:55,012
what you're doing in order to raise money figure out how you talk about what you're doing in order

427
00:42:55,012 --> 00:43:00,332
to get buy-in from the community, whether it's a review on a PR, whether it's people

428
00:43:00,332 --> 00:43:01,572
using your application.

429
00:43:02,752 --> 00:43:07,852
There's different layers of communication, marketing, all that.

430
00:43:08,472 --> 00:43:10,872
And that's just off the top of my head.

431
00:43:11,252 --> 00:43:17,032
I'm not even yet mentioning things like, oh, mentoring others is important for the ecosystem.

432
00:43:17,192 --> 00:43:22,292
If nobody mentored anyone, the ecosystem would essentially die off because knowledge is,

433
00:43:22,292 --> 00:43:27,992
A lot is captured on GitHub, but that is not a good way to get a full picture.

434
00:43:29,072 --> 00:43:33,332
I have seen tons of people onboard into Bitcoin Core specifically.

435
00:43:33,992 --> 00:43:48,112
And out of like tens, if not maybe even a hundred people I've seen, there's like five tops who have really just lurked around GitHub and then become meaningful contributors.

436
00:43:48,912 --> 00:43:57,592
Almost everyone talks to people, gets some, like, the GitHub contributions might help them build up credibility in order to create a direct relationship.

437
00:43:57,592 --> 00:44:09,072
But whether it's a collaborator relationship, whether it's an onboarding program, whether it's a mentor, whatever it is, everybody has to talk to people to get their work forward.

438
00:44:10,552 --> 00:44:17,252
So anyways, all of these different aspects in a company, you have support, right?

439
00:44:17,252 --> 00:44:23,132
You have team offsites and you have a Slack channel and you have a manager and you have

440
00:44:23,132 --> 00:44:27,032
different elements of support that is divvied up between the company.

441
00:44:27,852 --> 00:44:32,832
And when you're a builder in Bitcoin, whether you're running a circular economy, whether

442
00:44:32,832 --> 00:44:39,252
you're being an educator, whether you're writing code, whether you're building a Nostra app,

443
00:44:39,612 --> 00:44:42,892
you have to take on a lot more different roles.

444
00:44:42,892 --> 00:44:47,432
and the cognitive burden of that is real.

445
00:44:47,432 --> 00:44:52,272
And if you don't put conscious attention into prioritization,

446
00:44:52,692 --> 00:44:58,992
into strategies for how you turn your brain off sometimes,

447
00:44:59,512 --> 00:45:04,272
into these aspects of what is most important,

448
00:45:05,252 --> 00:45:08,212
then you're paying a constant cognitive tax

449
00:45:08,212 --> 00:45:11,892
and that really, really adds up.

450
00:45:11,892 --> 00:45:28,512
And so that's very real. And the other thing I'll mention, since we have talked about global majority countries and being a woman and, you know, you mentioned a little bit earlier some of the BS that people are like, this is a woke agenda, whatever.

451
00:45:28,512 --> 00:45:44,952
Unfortunately, I think that the people who have experienced systemic bias in our world have additional cognitive taxes or burdens to pay.

452
00:45:46,352 --> 00:45:51,192
And this sucks, but is the truth of the world we live in.

453
00:45:51,392 --> 00:45:55,132
This is my perception of how it works.

454
00:45:55,132 --> 00:46:05,712
And so when you grow up either looking different or being told that you're different the whole time, there are, I call it shackles.

455
00:46:06,032 --> 00:46:13,112
That might be a little bit vague, but essentially that's how I refer to those cognitive taxes that are put in place.

456
00:46:13,632 --> 00:46:17,612
And it requires an extra effort to overcome that.

457
00:46:17,612 --> 00:46:25,132
um while that is definitely unfortunate in terms of the world that I want to live in that is fair

458
00:46:25,132 --> 00:46:32,292
and equitable and just I also think that means there's a lot of opportunity because

459
00:46:32,292 --> 00:46:41,292
everyone not everyone but the vast majority of people have some story of of why you're other

460
00:46:41,292 --> 00:46:48,552
and so if you understand where that's weighing you down that's really where there's a very high

461
00:46:48,552 --> 00:46:54,652
leverage opportunity and that's also where external support can be really valuable from

462
00:46:54,652 --> 00:46:59,612
helping like cut those chains and then and then if you're free of it then you can just express

463
00:46:59,612 --> 00:47:06,592
your creativity and those individual creativity ideas things is where I think true innovation

464
00:47:06,592 --> 00:47:13,152
comes from. That's what I believe. That's what Way is founded on. That's what Way is desiring to

465
00:47:13,152 --> 00:47:19,312
help elevate. It's not telling people what to do or how to do it. It's helping unleash what's

466
00:47:19,312 --> 00:47:25,832
holding you back so that your own perspective of the world can release itself. And that's where

467
00:47:25,832 --> 00:47:31,852
some of the most inspiring stories have come from. Another story that's coming to mind is

468
00:47:31,852 --> 00:47:42,332
Kochi, who I've worked with personally, who she has a very technical, straightforward, like very,

469
00:47:42,472 --> 00:47:50,792
very practical point of view. And we worked together for a while. And she, at some point,

470
00:47:50,852 --> 00:47:54,872
was like, you know, you were always saying, like, follow your curiosity, follow your curiosity. And

471
00:47:54,872 --> 00:48:00,812
I was like, what does that mean? How do I do that? That's very, you know, I don't even know how to

472
00:48:00,812 --> 00:48:04,012
represent her without using my own words like nebulous or something but she was just like I

473
00:48:04,012 --> 00:48:10,132
never knew what that meant but then finally I understood that my ability to to conceive of this

474
00:48:10,132 --> 00:48:18,152
problem is is unique and and if I can put forward my own conception of the problem then that's going

475
00:48:18,152 --> 00:48:28,792
to add essentially meaningful intellectual value to the shared collective and and this was her story

476
00:48:28,792 --> 00:48:38,692
of how she transformed into going from like being intimidated to review PRs on the Lightning

477
00:48:38,692 --> 00:48:46,472
protocol into putting forward a protocol spec and development, bringing together a different

478
00:48:46,472 --> 00:48:53,412
world of study that exists in a distributed knowledge system that is not in our software

479
00:48:53,412 --> 00:49:03,712
world as the grounds for a lightning protocol improvement. And that's like, you know, to her,

480
00:49:03,892 --> 00:49:08,812
I can't even understand all the details of exactly what's going on. I haven't dug into lightning and

481
00:49:08,812 --> 00:49:13,592
it's just like brilliantly technical and I've sent it to smarter people than me who are, you know,

482
00:49:13,952 --> 00:49:21,912
better versed. But I kind of loved that, her feedback of like, I had no clue what you were

483
00:49:21,912 --> 00:49:26,912
talking about but now i'm kind of getting it and it translating into this like protocol spec

484
00:49:26,912 --> 00:49:32,712
improvement you know that's a and that's amazing and that's a really beautiful thing i think sort of

485
00:49:32,712 --> 00:49:38,612
spirituality i don't maybe this isn't the best way to put it but i think you'll get the point

486
00:49:38,612 --> 00:49:43,292
like spirituality 101 it's that idea of like being present getting rid of these constraints

487
00:49:43,292 --> 00:49:48,332
the normal way we think about the world creating space for us to sort of be who we are and for our

488
00:49:48,332 --> 00:49:54,532
brilliance to come forth and to shine and then to, you know, become what it became in this instance

489
00:49:54,532 --> 00:49:58,352
that you just defined. I think that that's really the work and that's what you're helping people do.

490
00:49:58,872 --> 00:50:03,892
The technical ability is there in all of these cases, it seems like with what you're talking

491
00:50:03,892 --> 00:50:09,332
about. It's now just finding, it's allowing it to express itself. Is that a fair way to,

492
00:50:09,332 --> 00:50:14,432
like a fair synopsis or a fair way to, you're creating the space for people to express it or

493
00:50:14,432 --> 00:50:19,552
giving them a framework or a new way of looking at what they're doing for them to be able to sort of

494
00:50:19,552 --> 00:50:24,052
release what it is they have inside of them. Not that they know exactly what that is, but to give

495
00:50:24,052 --> 00:50:28,112
them space to see a problem and to come up with a solution for it, that they have the technical

496
00:50:28,112 --> 00:50:33,972
capabilities to solve. But maybe, as you mentioned earlier, have maybe an emotional or psychological

497
00:50:33,972 --> 00:50:41,092
hurdle that might be impeding them from getting to the core, no pun intended, of what that issue is.

498
00:50:41,092 --> 00:50:48,792
So what I wanted to just kind of maybe finally touch on, and actually I'll stop there for a second, but I get anything wrong there.

499
00:50:48,992 --> 00:50:49,072
Yeah.

500
00:50:49,672 --> 00:50:52,372
I just wanted to really agree with that.

501
00:50:52,792 --> 00:50:56,892
And that is the space that Way is coming in as.

502
00:50:57,192 --> 00:51:02,752
It's essentially if you have ever had a really good manager, how they support you.

503
00:51:02,872 --> 00:51:09,512
But it's doing that in a open source first, decentralized first kind of way.

504
00:51:09,512 --> 00:51:18,052
and it's not to say that there isn't importance of technical material and support.

505
00:51:18,552 --> 00:51:25,672
It's very important and there's amazing onboarding programs that are going on for devs all around the world

506
00:51:25,672 --> 00:51:32,172
and there's also all sorts of different, you know, if you're an educator,

507
00:51:32,172 --> 00:51:35,652
you do need to understand the subject matter material.

508
00:51:36,372 --> 00:51:47,972
It's just that way is coming in to provide this other element of support that is valuable and saying, OK, you're already resourced in learning the domain knowledge in a different way.

509
00:51:47,972 --> 00:51:48,732
You know?

510
00:51:49,312 --> 00:51:50,572
Yep. Appreciate that.

511
00:51:50,572 --> 00:51:56,912
one of the things the last thing that i'd like to touch on is maybe just some practical things for

512
00:51:56,912 --> 00:52:03,452
people listening um that they can do uh just maybe two or three maybe takeaways things that

513
00:52:03,452 --> 00:52:07,472
they can practice on their own to help maybe create space for these sorts of things to happen

514
00:52:07,472 --> 00:52:13,812
certain breakthroughs or their ability to express something and again if if possible you know anyone

515
00:52:13,812 --> 00:52:19,012
from the open source dev to again i have in my mind someone putting together a community somewhere in

516
00:52:19,012 --> 00:52:26,112
Africa or Latin America, circular economy, some takeaways for them, things they might

517
00:52:26,112 --> 00:52:28,892
be able to practice to enable that sort of expression.

518
00:52:29,712 --> 00:52:30,072
Definitely.

519
00:52:30,452 --> 00:52:30,652
Yeah.

520
00:52:30,772 --> 00:52:31,952
Let's get into it.

521
00:52:32,772 --> 00:52:43,172
So I think the number one thing that I like to start with is relevant to absolutely everyone

522
00:52:43,172 --> 00:52:48,312
and is understanding your deepest why.

523
00:52:49,012 --> 00:52:59,292
Why are, why do you care? Why are you doing this? And that should really inform what you do,

524
00:52:59,912 --> 00:53:09,392
you know, but first getting very tangible, because when we make space to explicitly ask

525
00:53:09,392 --> 00:53:17,372
that question, sometimes the answers, it's not that they're usually surprising,

526
00:53:17,372 --> 00:53:26,852
but it is surprising how often we're motivated by things that don't correlate with that deepest why.

527
00:53:29,252 --> 00:53:39,812
So starting with really, really knowing why you care can inform what you care about or how you go about it.

528
00:53:39,812 --> 00:53:50,852
and that relates to the other part which is to focus on the most important thing

529
00:53:50,852 --> 00:54:03,072
and and both of these are very universal and it's not novel it's not creative you've heard

530
00:54:03,072 --> 00:54:10,732
these concepts in a hundred million different ways but that to me is the essence of any

531
00:54:10,732 --> 00:54:17,812
any improvement that you try to do on yourself whether you're like oh I want more flow state or

532
00:54:17,812 --> 00:54:28,192
you are I want to um stop feeling terrible or whatever it is um understanding that that

533
00:54:28,192 --> 00:54:40,992
that two-part thing of why am I motivated for something and what is the focus of that.

534
00:54:41,712 --> 00:54:44,972
It helps you figure out what the most important thing is.

535
00:54:45,592 --> 00:54:48,932
And that is harder than ever in today's world.

536
00:54:49,312 --> 00:54:57,952
We are all slammed by so many pulls on our attention from a million different directions.

537
00:54:58,192 --> 00:55:08,672
And it's so funny because a little bit of explicit time to answer these questions goes such a long way.

538
00:55:09,032 --> 00:55:14,972
And yet it's extremely uncomfortable to actually spend the time doing that.

539
00:55:14,972 --> 00:55:26,092
So one of the things that we've been doing with Way, and it started prior but has been going on, is there's a template.

540
00:55:26,092 --> 00:55:28,872
It's available on our website called AIR.

541
00:55:29,092 --> 00:55:31,772
It's short for Actions, Intentions, Reflections.

542
00:55:32,112 --> 00:55:36,452
You look back at the last month and you say, what were the actions that I did?

543
00:55:36,652 --> 00:55:41,732
And that's kind of very practical and literal.

544
00:55:41,732 --> 00:55:43,172
And then you have the reflections.

545
00:55:43,172 --> 00:55:48,532
those are your more narrative storytelling feelings whatever about how you feel about it

546
00:55:48,532 --> 00:55:54,892
like wow I did so much or I did so little most of the time people in the space we hear over and

547
00:55:54,892 --> 00:55:59,532
over again they're like wow I thought I didn't do anything but then I listed it out and then I was

548
00:55:59,532 --> 00:56:06,812
like I actually did a bunch and experience intrinsic value there and then and then you move on to

549
00:56:06,812 --> 00:56:12,332
looking at the next month and that's the I that's the intentions and you might set goals you might

550
00:56:12,332 --> 00:56:19,072
set more of direction of what you want to achieve. And doing this, it's a short amount of time that

551
00:56:19,072 --> 00:56:26,172
it's one hour a month. And often it's even just 30 minutes of that hour. But doing that is so

552
00:56:26,172 --> 00:56:34,732
game changing for so many of us. And yet, we all drag our feet. We're like, we have to make each

553
00:56:34,732 --> 00:56:40,192
other accountable because none of us it's like, no, no, no, it sounds like one hour. But it's like,

554
00:56:40,192 --> 00:56:44,372
no no no i can i'll do backflips before i spend this hour

555
00:56:44,372 --> 00:56:51,192
no i don't know how to do backflips but i'll figure it out yeah i'll do that i'll read a

556
00:56:51,192 --> 00:56:57,252
book on backflips for that hour instead of actually reflecting yeah exactly yeah so it's

557
00:56:57,252 --> 00:57:03,652
such a powerful thing and the challenge of doing it is just as hard as it is powerful

558
00:57:03,652 --> 00:57:09,692
that's but can i ask yeah can i i have a question there do you find that with the with most of this

559
00:57:09,692 --> 00:57:16,792
work, you know, oftentimes, you know, whether it's in self-help books or the advice that we get,

560
00:57:16,852 --> 00:57:21,452
whatever it is, it's the same thing over and over. It's that most people read the book,

561
00:57:21,452 --> 00:57:25,152
but never actually practice anything in it because the practicing it is the tough part.

562
00:57:25,512 --> 00:57:30,012
Sometimes it's just sort of the mental, I don't want to do this. I'm not conditioned to do this.

563
00:57:30,092 --> 00:57:34,772
I don't want to have to reflect on this thing. Sometimes it's just not prioritizing it. Maybe

564
00:57:34,772 --> 00:57:38,552
you're feeling good that week, that month, whatever. I don't need it. Everything's sort of good.

565
00:57:38,552 --> 00:57:43,052
so you don't feel like you're in this state of anywhere from crisis to frustration.

566
00:57:43,532 --> 00:57:49,932
And, you know, those are the places we often do kind of force ourselves to make some sort of change or reflect.

567
00:57:50,612 --> 00:57:53,912
So I think on some level, it's just the doing.

568
00:57:53,912 --> 00:57:56,752
It's not that what you're doing is all that profound.

569
00:57:56,932 --> 00:58:00,132
It's just actually doing it that becomes the problem a lot of the time.

570
00:58:00,372 --> 00:58:02,032
Would that be a fair way to say it?

571
00:58:02,732 --> 00:58:03,352
Yeah. Yeah.

572
00:58:03,352 --> 00:58:10,712
Yeah, what's coming to my mind in agreement is it's like the activity itself isn't that profound.

573
00:58:10,952 --> 00:58:14,252
Getting yourself to engage in the activity is what's profound.

574
00:58:14,532 --> 00:58:15,552
Yeah, I like that.

575
00:58:15,992 --> 00:58:16,592
I like that.

576
00:58:17,172 --> 00:58:18,932
Yeah, totally agree.

577
00:58:20,232 --> 00:58:20,972
Amazing stuff.

578
00:58:21,172 --> 00:58:29,912
Any other, maybe one or two other small, I guess, not technical things, just tips, things to keep in mind maybe as you're working on whatever you're working on?

579
00:58:29,912 --> 00:58:41,212
Well, I would love to dig into that specific one a little bit more through a couple more lenses because I think that's what makes it giving us more material to engage with.

580
00:58:42,012 --> 00:58:48,692
So the idea of figuring out the most important thing, one framework.

581
00:58:48,792 --> 00:58:50,232
So I want to talk about it from two different lenses.

582
00:58:50,512 --> 00:58:54,432
One is a metaphor that's been a framework that's really resonated with a lot of people.

583
00:58:54,912 --> 00:58:58,252
And two is a bit of the neuroscience of why this matters.

584
00:58:58,252 --> 00:59:11,092
game cool so um i think we've talked about this 10x framework but this idea is that 10x is easier

585
00:59:11,092 --> 00:59:18,072
than 2x um it came from there's there's a book about it i haven't read it but um noemi boyer

586
00:59:18,072 --> 00:59:26,612
who is the ceo of demo labs and chief happiness officer at uh the reynolds foundation she was a

587
00:59:26,612 --> 00:59:33,652
lead facilitator for one of the group programs, OS Reboot, that we ran last year and introduced

588
00:59:33,652 --> 00:59:38,732
this model, which resonated with people. And then I've been going around sharing it and

589
00:59:38,732 --> 00:59:44,952
experiencing similar resonance. So that's the context of where this came from. But the idea is

590
00:59:44,952 --> 00:59:49,272
that like, okay, you're building a plane, right? You're already working on whatever project you're

591
00:59:49,272 --> 00:59:59,332
working on. Let's say you are a Bitcoin writer, for example. So you have your plane and it's going

592
00:59:59,332 --> 01:00:05,032
along and you realize that there's places you got to go, right? There's dictators that need to be

593
01:00:05,032 --> 01:00:14,832
overthrown. There's unbanked people. There's all this lack of information that needs to be

594
01:00:14,832 --> 01:00:23,032
resolved. So you're like, okay, how do I build a faster plane? And that is where most of us are

595
01:00:23,032 --> 01:00:30,292
naturally at. We're looking for how do I speed this plane up? And that's a 2x mindset.

596
01:00:30,952 --> 01:00:36,452
Those are 2x improvements. What maintenance can I do? Can I upgrade the engine? What

597
01:00:36,452 --> 01:00:41,392
trade-offs should I do of when I fly it versus when I have to fuel it, etc.?

598
01:00:41,392 --> 01:00:50,172
but the question that's really impactful is asking where can we shift into a 10x mindset

599
01:00:50,172 --> 01:00:58,552
and the process of doing that is stepping back which is extremely uncomfortable that's the

600
01:00:58,552 --> 01:01:03,692
discomfort we're talking about what does that mean as you say is that sometimes there's a little bit

601
01:01:03,692 --> 01:01:08,212
of letting go of thinking we're doing it the right way i don't want to give up my my methods my

602
01:01:08,212 --> 01:01:12,632
approach to this thing is that is that would that be a little bit extra context to add there

603
01:01:12,632 --> 01:01:20,672
totally totally definitely have to let go um have to have to realize that hey

604
01:01:20,672 --> 01:01:29,652
the improvements the 2x improvements i do this week are never gonna get me as fast as if i

605
01:01:29,652 --> 01:01:37,672
truly step back and i don't know what's coming next yet but i have to believe that i can design

606
01:01:37,672 --> 01:01:43,412
a rocket ship. And that's why I love this metaphor, because then you're like, oh, yeah,

607
01:01:43,432 --> 01:01:51,932
a rocket goes way faster than a plane could. But I really try when I communicate it to communicate

608
01:01:51,932 --> 01:01:56,932
that process of when you step back from building a faster plane, you don't know what's coming.

609
01:01:57,312 --> 01:02:00,892
You're not like, I'm designing a rocket. I'm designing a rocket. Like you have to just step

610
01:02:00,892 --> 01:02:07,552
into this unknown, uncomfortable, unfamiliar, and say, I believe, you kind of have to take

611
01:02:07,552 --> 01:02:13,412
a leap of faith, say, I believe I can do this in an exponentially faster way.

612
01:02:14,332 --> 01:02:19,572
And then if you believe that, then you can imagine a rocket.

613
01:02:20,992 --> 01:02:24,552
And I've seen evidence of this time and time again.

614
01:02:24,552 --> 01:02:36,578
and in this past year have been blown away by freedom tech builders who are adopting this and using it to leverage their own projects

615
01:02:37,398 --> 01:02:40,818
But it is so, so uncomfortable.

616
01:02:40,818 --> 01:02:43,078
And I don't want to understate that.

617
01:02:43,238 --> 01:02:46,478
It's great to look back and be like, oh, rocket, obviously, you know.

618
01:02:46,478 --> 01:03:01,598
But the process of doing that and I think it's an ongoing process of us constantly integrating those loops into our life because then there are times if you've designed a rocket ship, don't continue to step back in like forever.

619
01:03:01,958 --> 01:03:05,758
Go implement it and then repeat the process, you know.

620
01:03:05,758 --> 01:03:29,058
So it does need to be a full cycle. But that aspect of where can I go into the exponential growth curve, how can I unlock that is really, really meaningful. And I'll pause there, but then let's dive into a little bit of my understanding of the neuroscience of why that matters.

621
01:03:29,658 --> 01:03:30,098
Yeah, absolutely.

622
01:03:30,238 --> 01:03:30,858
Thank you for that.

623
01:03:30,938 --> 01:03:42,178
And there's a good book on this called, well, I won't say on this, not exactly what you just said, but another good book on that note of kind of not necessarily improving upon an airplane, but building a rocket ship.

624
01:03:42,318 --> 01:03:43,418
It's called Play Bigger.

625
01:03:43,758 --> 01:03:46,738
I think it's written by some Silicon Valley people.

626
01:03:46,738 --> 01:03:54,358
It was actually recommended to me by Jeff Booth, one of my favorite people in this space, and highly recommend it.

627
01:03:54,358 --> 01:04:00,358
And I think it's a matter of just either broadening your perspective, shifting your perspective.

628
01:04:01,118 --> 01:04:06,158
You're going to end up putting in the same or less energy and get bigger results when you do that.

629
01:04:06,278 --> 01:04:07,758
I won't say that as a default.

630
01:04:07,898 --> 01:04:09,878
We don't know, but that's the intention, right?

631
01:04:09,918 --> 01:04:15,018
It's to say, okay, I really want to accomplish this big thing the way that I'm currently going about it.

632
01:04:15,078 --> 01:04:20,418
I'm not going to do that within this time frame or within the time frame that I would like to accomplish it in.

633
01:04:20,418 --> 01:04:27,558
Or maybe I'll get halfway there, not necessarily reach all the people I was planning to reach or have the impact I was hoping to have.

634
01:04:27,998 --> 01:04:33,658
And I think one of the things that's a little bit difficult, I'll share a very quick story here.

635
01:04:33,778 --> 01:04:37,778
I used to work with the manager of an artist named India Airi.

636
01:04:38,038 --> 01:04:41,198
She was an acoustic singer-songwriter.

637
01:04:41,598 --> 01:04:46,398
And he said a lot of the work that he had to do with her was she was a really good singer-songwriter.

638
01:04:46,398 --> 01:04:50,858
and he wanted to have, she was just like, look, I'm a coffee shop.

639
01:04:51,138 --> 01:04:52,558
I'm a coffee shop musician.

640
01:04:53,098 --> 01:04:54,498
Maybe I'll get a little bit bigger than that,

641
01:04:54,538 --> 01:04:56,358
but I like intimate performances, blah, blah, blah.

642
01:04:56,498 --> 01:04:58,198
And he saw something different.

643
01:04:58,338 --> 01:05:01,478
He said, no, no, I think there's something bigger here

644
01:05:01,478 --> 01:05:02,518
that we could tap into.

645
01:05:03,238 --> 01:05:04,958
And I won't get into all the process,

646
01:05:05,158 --> 01:05:08,118
but it took some reframing for her to eventually,

647
01:05:08,458 --> 01:05:10,038
she got to a point where she co-headlined

648
01:05:10,038 --> 01:05:11,638
Madison Square Garden with Sade.

649
01:05:11,638 --> 01:05:15,318
And it's like, you sit there,

650
01:05:15,318 --> 01:05:20,258
And sometimes I don't think it's I think sometimes correct me if I'm wrong.

651
01:05:20,618 --> 01:05:23,258
Sometimes there's even a self-confidence component to this.

652
01:05:23,438 --> 01:05:31,158
Can I be the person that creates this exponential change, believing that you can be that person, but not blindly just believing it, then coming up with a strategy.

653
01:05:31,718 --> 01:05:35,418
But the step back is the hardest part, the stepping back.

654
01:05:35,418 --> 01:05:40,658
And I think also not being not flinching at your vision.

655
01:05:40,658 --> 01:05:52,118
So if you do have that bigger vision, not convincing yourself that you're thinking too big, actually the opposite, maybe you're not thinking big enough, that tends to be people, the issue in a lot of cases.

656
01:05:52,298 --> 01:05:56,318
And this extends, in my opinion, beyond open source or Bitcoin development.

657
01:05:57,038 --> 01:05:58,798
But just, yeah, this is difficult.

658
01:05:59,018 --> 01:06:00,978
This is really, really challenging stuff.

659
01:06:00,978 --> 01:06:07,438
not even I would say less to conceptualizing the strategy, but more the stepping back and saying,

660
01:06:07,738 --> 01:06:12,418
hey, maybe I'm doing this wrong and not clinging to like, but this is the way I've always done it.

661
01:06:12,418 --> 01:06:16,298
This is the way I'm going to brute force this thing. I'm going to make it work. It's really,

662
01:06:16,418 --> 01:06:20,418
really hard to let go of that kind of stuff. It takes a little while, but I don't want to,

663
01:06:20,958 --> 01:06:25,938
I want you to get into the neuroscience of it. Yeah. It's a perfect setup. You don't even know it,

664
01:06:25,938 --> 01:06:31,218
But that's a perfect setup because what you're really talking about are identity shifts.

665
01:06:31,918 --> 01:06:37,918
And everything I've learned about the neuroscience has it points towards those identity shifts.

666
01:06:38,098 --> 01:06:40,018
So I want to share a couple of things.

667
01:06:40,298 --> 01:06:42,938
I can't remember if I mentioned earlier, but yes, I'm not a neuroscientist.

668
01:06:43,738 --> 01:06:48,158
And however, these claims have been reviewed by neuroscientists.

669
01:06:48,378 --> 01:06:52,278
So I'm not making them completely unwarranted.

670
01:06:52,278 --> 01:06:58,458
But I just want to make sure to share with the audience, engage with this with skepticism.

671
01:06:58,698 --> 01:07:01,778
If I'm wrong, let me know and let me know why and send me sources.

672
01:07:02,038 --> 01:07:09,018
You know, I'm learning in open and want to involve people in that process.

673
01:07:09,558 --> 01:07:16,178
And so the best way to take any of this neuroscience understanding I share is to treat it skeptically.

674
01:07:17,058 --> 01:07:17,558
Okay.

675
01:07:17,858 --> 01:07:18,918
So with that disclaimer.

676
01:07:20,658 --> 01:07:22,258
So identity shift.

677
01:07:22,278 --> 01:07:30,598
that is such a big deal. And most of what I learn really reinforces that. So here's one example.

678
01:07:31,118 --> 01:07:39,298
We have a system called the reticular activating system. And it is its job is to filter out

679
01:07:39,298 --> 01:07:46,358
sensations that we experience. It's to filter out stimuli. And it's hard to get a precise number,

680
01:07:46,358 --> 01:08:00,438
But there are research papers that have claimed that over 99% of stimuli that hits your sensory body that is taken in by different receptors all over your body gets filtered out.

681
01:08:00,438 --> 01:08:13,718
And only 1% of it even makes it into your brain to possibly influence whether it's action or conception, you know, your understanding of what's going on.

682
01:08:13,718 --> 01:08:31,618
And so if you have a deeply held belief, whether it's about yourself or the world you live in or somebody else, whatever it is, then your entire body is working and in a very layered, nuanced way to reinforce that belief.

683
01:08:32,618 --> 01:08:35,978
And so that belief can be influenced.

684
01:08:36,118 --> 01:08:37,458
It can change over time.

685
01:08:37,458 --> 01:08:47,058
But these are the identity shifts that are really, really impactful and hard to access at the same time.

686
01:08:47,498 --> 01:08:49,398
It requires consistent work.

687
01:08:50,098 --> 01:09:01,218
And so doing that specific active energy to believe in a bigger version of yourself or a bigger game.

688
01:09:01,658 --> 01:09:05,898
And a lot of how we engage with it is at the mental narrative layer, right?

689
01:09:05,898 --> 01:09:11,218
finding places in your mind if you have a fear story if you have an anxiety that constantly

690
01:09:11,218 --> 01:09:18,538
comes up I mean I do this all the time um if if I was anxious uh I was recently looking for I just

691
01:09:18,538 --> 01:09:25,458
signed a lease for a new place um to live and when I was in the search it was so anxiety producing

692
01:09:25,458 --> 01:09:31,318
and I I dug into it and I saw that the fear was that I'm never going to find a place I like

693
01:09:31,318 --> 01:09:39,718
and so doing the work to recognize here's a pattern on my mind, here's the fear and then

694
01:09:39,718 --> 01:09:47,038
figuring out what is the flip of that narrative of just oh I will find a place I like and practicing

695
01:09:47,038 --> 01:09:56,698
creating just flag when I see myself feeling anxious like put a flag and say okay can I

696
01:09:56,698 --> 01:10:00,678
practice believing that I'm going to find a place even if it doesn't feel available to me right now

697
01:10:00,678 --> 01:10:03,998
Can I just like test out putting this story there?

698
01:10:04,238 --> 01:10:05,298
See how it feels.

699
01:10:05,458 --> 01:10:11,118
Like that's one way to engage with this kind of identity layer, you know.

700
01:10:12,418 --> 01:10:15,138
And so there's different ways to practice it.

701
01:10:15,198 --> 01:10:16,338
You can do it at a somatic layer.

702
01:10:16,418 --> 01:10:17,698
You can do it at a psychological layer.

703
01:10:17,818 --> 01:10:20,338
You can do all sorts of different techniques to it.

704
01:10:20,338 --> 01:10:37,218
But that is how you train your body to be open to information that helps reinforce the type of existence you want rather than reinforcing the shortcomings that you perceive.

705
01:10:37,218 --> 01:10:44,898
beautifully put yeah i think it's a huge stopping stopping yourself in your own tracks when you're

706
01:10:44,898 --> 01:10:49,218
having that thought realizing that it's a thought that it's not reality that it's something you're

707
01:10:49,218 --> 01:10:55,078
going to choose to feel you know almost like that you're i'll use some some terminology here some

708
01:10:55,078 --> 01:10:59,018
open source terminology are you going to merge this into your reality are you going to say no

709
01:10:59,018 --> 01:11:03,078
we're not we're not going to make this part of my reality today actually we want to make it the

710
01:11:03,078 --> 01:11:07,838
opposite part of my reality today and make that change appropriately. I think it's a really

711
01:11:07,838 --> 01:11:14,538
difficult thing to do because there's a comfort in sort of falling into our old habits, even if

712
01:11:14,538 --> 01:11:20,138
that does produce anxiety for us, because we've either convinced ourselves I'm an anxious person

713
01:11:20,138 --> 01:11:25,678
or that's just the way I think or whatever it is. This is all part of us constructing our own

714
01:11:25,678 --> 01:11:30,378
reality. And in those moments, it could be really difficult to halt it because I would imagine most

715
01:11:30,378 --> 01:11:36,278
people, and I say this, I'll just say my own experience with this, is that who will I be if

716
01:11:36,278 --> 01:11:42,038
I'm not that person, if I'm not the anxious person, if I'm not the developer who does this,

717
01:11:42,078 --> 01:11:48,278
if I'm not the manager who does this, then who will I be? And I think, to your point,

718
01:11:48,358 --> 01:11:54,318
it's similar to saying, well, I don't want to create a 2x faster airplane. What will I create?

719
01:11:54,458 --> 01:12:00,178
That thought alone, that's the part that I think is hard for people. Is the future an open

720
01:12:00,178 --> 01:12:05,818
canvas or is it the sort of limited scope future that I've always envisioned or the way I've

721
01:12:05,818 --> 01:12:10,018
approached things? It's a really, really difficult place to get to, even though it sounds like it

722
01:12:10,018 --> 01:12:13,698
wouldn't be. Why wouldn't you want the whole world to be whatever? I don't want to stop you there.

723
01:12:13,718 --> 01:12:17,298
It seems like you have something to say. Yeah. You're setting me up so perfectly.

724
01:12:18,298 --> 01:12:25,158
Way to plan this, everybody. We didn't plan it. I know. I know. It's like we did though, because

725
01:12:25,158 --> 01:12:28,178
because our brains are wired that way.

726
01:12:28,478 --> 01:12:31,858
And so I want to talk about the DMN versus the TPN.

727
01:12:32,418 --> 01:12:35,018
The DMN is the default mode network.

728
01:12:35,018 --> 01:12:37,218
And that's our autopilot.

729
01:12:37,758 --> 01:12:43,018
It is literally named that because when they did the brain scans of people,

730
01:12:43,178 --> 01:12:45,238
this is the default.

731
01:12:45,598 --> 01:12:51,998
Most of the time, what is there, it's kind of like named after the average of what they see.

732
01:12:51,998 --> 01:13:00,798
then the TPN there's several different names for the an alternate network and and there's different

733
01:13:00,798 --> 01:13:06,958
like the salience network helps decide which one is in signal goes to but we don't have time to dig

734
01:13:06,958 --> 01:13:13,138
into all of that but I'm the TPN is the task positive network in the literature is used as

735
01:13:13,138 --> 01:13:21,178
the inverse of the default mode network okay cool DMN autopilot TPN the opposite TPN is going to be

736
01:13:21,178 --> 01:13:29,398
what we associate with I'm present, I'm in flow, I'm aware of what's going on. DMN is like, whoa,

737
01:13:29,478 --> 01:13:35,698
I drove to work. I don't even know how that happened. Or, you know, wow, I guess I am putting

738
01:13:35,698 --> 01:13:41,758
this candy bar in my face right now. I didn't even realize I stopped working, whatever it is, right?

739
01:13:41,758 --> 01:13:49,758
So the DMN is evolutionarily meant to keep us safe.

740
01:13:50,698 --> 01:13:59,078
And so the way it does that is it uses all past information of threat to figure out actions,

741
01:13:59,438 --> 01:14:07,958
to surface information that can show you that threat is occurring to inform action to prevent the threat.

742
01:14:07,958 --> 01:14:21,998
so our brains from a survival point of view have evolved to say I would rather prefer a known bad

743
01:14:21,998 --> 01:14:29,678
thing to an unknown possibly good thing so exactly what you're saying that's why I got so excited

744
01:14:29,678 --> 01:14:35,378
because it was a perfect setup like it's not just oh some of us are like this or not

745
01:14:35,378 --> 01:14:44,158
we are all like that by default and it's a feature not a bug but we I this is why I find the

746
01:14:44,158 --> 01:14:50,818
neuroscience really exciting because I think that if you understand how this is a strength that has

747
01:14:50,818 --> 01:14:59,858
led us to where we are you can work with it to make sure it doesn't limit you you know we from a

748
01:14:59,858 --> 01:15:06,918
mammal point of view would rather fail in the same way than expose ourselves to something that

749
01:15:06,918 --> 01:15:11,998
maybe is growth, maybe is good, sounds practical from a human point of view. It's like, yeah,

750
01:15:12,178 --> 01:15:20,538
obviously, I want to share my music with more people. But your brain has intensely fortified

751
01:15:20,538 --> 01:15:26,758
structures to say, oh, but then people might hate you, people might throw tomatoes at you,

752
01:15:26,758 --> 01:15:30,678
Like, whatever. I don't know. So let's just do the thing that we know.

753
01:15:31,718 --> 01:15:40,518
Yes. And the magic lies within doing these things you were just talking about that may cause people to throw tomatoes at you.

754
01:15:40,518 --> 01:15:46,278
I think the magic lies in doing these things regardless. It's not that the tomatoes won't get thrown.

755
01:15:46,598 --> 01:15:54,378
I think the tomatoes oftentimes do get thrown and all the things that maybe you were scared were going to happen when you go and do something like you said,

756
01:15:54,378 --> 01:15:57,718
like share your music with the world or share something you created with the world.

757
01:15:58,638 --> 01:16:03,038
And maybe it's not as severe as tomatoes getting thrown, but maybe people just don't react to it.

758
01:16:03,098 --> 01:16:05,458
It doesn't have the intended impact you hoped it would have.

759
01:16:05,598 --> 01:16:08,378
And this is oftentimes, I think, what happens when you create stuff.

760
01:16:08,538 --> 01:16:12,918
And this isn't me just projecting years of being a musician that nobody paid attention to.

761
01:16:13,038 --> 01:16:14,478
So I'm just just putting that out there.

762
01:16:16,898 --> 01:16:19,358
So, yeah, I think it's really important what you said.

763
01:16:19,358 --> 01:16:29,498
I think that the one thing to note, though, is that if you can sort of find it within you and maybe find help and support to put your ideas out there, to put big ideas out there.

764
01:16:29,638 --> 01:16:40,458
And those ideas that maybe come to you when you make space for them to come to you that maybe feel a little ridiculous, potentially even unorthodox, those ideas tend to be special oftentimes.

765
01:16:40,538 --> 01:16:47,258
And I think if you could figure out a way to give them space and to put them out there, it feels good.

766
01:16:47,258 --> 01:16:57,198
One thing that comes to mind, actually, as I'm saying this, is sometimes from myself at least, I would get into a certain habit with the type of information I would put on Twitter.

767
01:16:57,798 --> 01:17:00,598
And it was, ah, we're on X these days.

768
01:17:00,918 --> 01:17:04,678
And it would often be related to the beat I was reporting on.

769
01:17:05,018 --> 01:17:08,838
But once in a while, I'd have just a unique idea or a thought on something.

770
01:17:08,838 --> 01:17:17,998
And maybe that didn't totally fit in with my, I don't know, whatever persona I've created, whether intentionally or not intentionally.

771
01:17:18,738 --> 01:17:24,938
And it's a little bit weird because sometimes those tweets or those ideas, when you put them out there, they don't really land right away.

772
01:17:25,458 --> 01:17:30,618
And I think then I've sort of practiced sort of like, should I just delete this?

773
01:17:30,658 --> 01:17:31,638
Why did I even say that?

774
01:17:31,698 --> 01:17:32,418
What was I thinking?

775
01:17:32,638 --> 01:17:37,798
And then, you know, some mornings you wake up and all of a sudden, you know, a bunch of people have shared it and it actually was a good idea.

776
01:17:37,798 --> 01:18:03,698
Sometimes these things, I think, just take time, right? Give yourself some space, put these ideas out there and do so in a way I think that feels comfortable to you. I think that could be, that's a whole different conversation, I think. But I think on some level, just sort of trusting that you're, especially if you're doing something like developing on Bitcoin, you're an incredibly intelligent human being. You're doing really, really important work and that your perspective is valuable.

777
01:18:03,698 --> 01:18:19,658
So just wanted to add a little bit of my two sats at the end there. I want to bring it back to you, though, to bring it home for us, Amiti, if you don't mind. Any final thoughts? And also, obviously, please do a little bit of shilling. Where can people find you? Where can they find and connect with Way?

778
01:18:19,658 --> 01:18:28,498
yeah totally yeah so just to to wrap up where where you um left us off i i i totally agree i

779
01:18:28,498 --> 01:18:35,258
think there's two different ways i look at it from the neuroscience point of view that expanding your

780
01:18:35,258 --> 01:18:41,978
identity is a really big deal your body your brain is working to reinforce your beliefs and so if you

781
01:18:41,978 --> 01:18:48,818
believe you can do something, then you are seeking evidence for that information. And if you

782
01:18:48,818 --> 01:18:55,798
go without intentionality, then you're by default not going to shift out of anything

783
01:18:55,798 --> 01:19:02,778
like that you haven't already seen or have already done. So if you want to have any kind of growth,

784
01:19:02,778 --> 01:19:08,818
whether it's personal, whether it's professional, there does require some level of intentional

785
01:19:08,818 --> 01:19:16,598
training in your body in order for your brain to organize around that. And then beyond that,

786
01:19:16,638 --> 01:19:23,958
I totally agree with what you were saying. And this part is more of my deeply held belief. And

787
01:19:23,958 --> 01:19:32,198
what Wei is founded on is essentially the idea that innovation comes from individual creativity.

788
01:19:32,978 --> 01:19:38,578
Each of us have unique, whether it's an idea, whether it's an expression, whether it's art,

789
01:19:38,578 --> 01:19:45,778
whether it's code, we all have a unique kind of perspective and offering. And that's something

790
01:19:45,778 --> 01:19:54,418
uniquely human, uniquely you, uniquely me, you know, and that's where real innovation comes from.

791
01:19:55,298 --> 01:20:01,218
And so that could be the start of an entire other episode, but instead we'll just end it here.

792
01:20:01,218 --> 01:20:09,878
that's the fundamental principle that in terms of why we exist we we talked a decent amount about

793
01:20:09,878 --> 01:20:18,198
that and challenges that are in this ecosystem for builders but our approach to to how we support

794
01:20:18,198 --> 01:20:26,358
people is essentially this how can we support you to to unshackle some of the baggage or chains or

795
01:20:26,358 --> 01:20:33,838
whatever you want to call it and and help release some of your own creativity and so that's that's

796
01:20:33,838 --> 01:20:42,598
what way is about um so yeah let me do a little bit of shilling um we've we've had amazing um

797
01:20:42,598 --> 01:20:49,338
traction this past year and we're excited to to continue playing this out and offering our support

798
01:20:49,338 --> 01:20:54,938
the best way to find out when we are doing new stuff

799
01:20:54,938 --> 01:20:56,898
is signing up for the mailing list

800
01:20:56,898 --> 01:21:00,358
you can go to way.dev

801
01:21:00,358 --> 01:21:04,518
please include it in the show notes

802
01:21:04,518 --> 01:21:06,478
and sign up for our mailing list there

803
01:21:06,478 --> 01:21:09,338
next time we release a program

804
01:21:09,338 --> 01:21:12,578
that's available with slots

805
01:21:12,578 --> 01:21:16,538
we will definitely be mentioning it there

806
01:21:16,538 --> 01:21:26,678
Right now, over this year, we're partnering with HRF and supporting 52 of their grantees, which is really exciting with group coaching and individual coaching.

807
01:21:27,438 --> 01:21:32,338
It's a whole amazing network of experts, facilitators, coaches, neuroscientists, blah, blah, blah, blah,

808
01:21:32,338 --> 01:21:38,738
that are rallying together to bring the support that exists in the ecosystem,

809
01:21:39,038 --> 01:21:43,958
things that are evidence-based, things that are well-established, to uniquely our space,

810
01:21:44,138 --> 01:21:51,698
and customizing it to the challenges that we face both as a group as well as individuals.

811
01:21:52,398 --> 01:21:54,098
And so I'm super excited.

812
01:21:54,098 --> 01:22:02,778
we are we are not the best at talking publicly it's been so amazing the engagement so I'm happy

813
01:22:02,778 --> 01:22:10,918
to be here sharing a little bit more with all of all of you audience and hopefully over the course

814
01:22:10,918 --> 01:22:17,998
of this year you'll hear more because I'm I'm so blown away by by what people are doing really and

815
01:22:17,998 --> 01:22:24,918
I think that so many of us in the community want to support the builders, and this is a really cool

816
01:22:24,918 --> 01:22:32,378
way to do it. We are very interested in donations, so if that is something you're interested in,

817
01:22:32,418 --> 01:22:36,598
you can do it on our website or email us, hello at way.dev. If you have any questions,

818
01:22:36,838 --> 01:22:43,058
hello at way.dev. I read all the emails, me and some other people, but like, yeah, we definitely

819
01:22:43,058 --> 01:22:51,138
are very attentive to everything that we are sent. And so hit us up. We'd love to hear from you.

820
01:22:51,798 --> 01:22:56,518
A little bit. I really appreciate your taking the time to do this. Really respect the fact that you

821
01:22:56,518 --> 01:23:02,318
felt that something inside of you that caused you to pivot from doing the more technical work to

822
01:23:02,318 --> 01:23:06,098
this work. And I think that the impact you're going to have is going to be incredible and

823
01:23:06,098 --> 01:23:10,698
exponential. I think that the amount of people you reach and then the exponential changes that

824
01:23:10,698 --> 01:23:14,958
they create as a result is going to be beneficial to us all as human beings, as

825
01:23:14,958 --> 01:23:19,918
Bitcoiners, as people using open source tech. So from on a personal

826
01:23:19,944 --> 01:23:23,784
level. Thank you very much for the work you're doing. And I look forward to continuing this

827
01:23:23,784 --> 01:23:28,864
conversation. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. And it's truly been such an amazing ride.

828
01:23:29,224 --> 01:23:33,704
And it's an honor to get to do this kind of work. Very cool. Well, you heard it here, everybody.

829
01:23:33,844 --> 01:23:39,384
Check out Wei. We will be back. We'll be back next week. I think we have a guest from Cuba

830
01:23:39,384 --> 01:23:43,284
joining us. But let's leave it here for now. Thanks for listening. And we will talk soon,

831
01:23:43,344 --> 01:23:48,364
everybody. Take it easy. Pretty awesome, no? Amiti totally rocks. I absolutely love the work

832
01:23:48,364 --> 01:23:52,924
that she's doing. I'm looking forward to maybe working with her in some capacity or supporting

833
01:23:52,924 --> 01:23:58,664
in whatever ways I can. I think that what she does is so incredibly important. We often maybe

834
01:23:58,664 --> 01:24:03,544
take for granted the fact that all these people are doing this hard work on Bitcoin and other

835
01:24:03,544 --> 01:24:08,824
freedom tech and maybe working themselves to a point of exhaustion, burnout. And we're just using

836
01:24:08,824 --> 01:24:13,024
these tools without necessarily thinking twice about that. So it's good to know that there's

837
01:24:13,024 --> 01:24:17,704
someone like Amiti out there supporting people who are doing this incredibly important work.

838
01:24:18,364 --> 01:24:37,904
Please help people find this episode. You can do so by hitting the like and subscribe button. You could leave a comment. You could leave a review. All of these things would be greatly appreciated. And as always, I'm always looking for really interesting stories, people around the world that are doing really good work to help foster Bitcoin adoption, especially at the grassroots level.

839
01:24:37,904 --> 01:24:42,444
So please feel free to reach out to me at newrentcap at gmail.com.

840
01:24:42,544 --> 01:24:46,964
That's N-E-W-R-E-N-C-A-P at gmail.com.

841
01:24:47,904 --> 01:24:52,004
Beyond sending me some leads, please feel free just to let me know what you think about the show,

842
01:24:52,264 --> 01:24:56,044
to tell me what I could maybe do better, improve upon, what you like, etc.

843
01:24:56,364 --> 01:24:58,464
So with that, let me stop there.

844
01:24:58,684 --> 01:25:01,424
And thank you to everyone for tuning in.

845
01:25:01,484 --> 01:25:02,584
And we will talk next week.

846
01:25:02,664 --> 01:25:03,164
Take it easy.

847
01:25:07,904 --> 01:25:17,044
Thank you.