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At Afrobit Kibera, we are all about educating people and giving them knowledge and access to tools that help promote Bitcoin's circular economy.

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People in Kibera are living on a dollar a day. They cannot afford to save.

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But these guys were actually saving.

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It was a really beautiful surprise and a behavior change that we had not envisioned.

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It was going to happen as early as we thought.

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Hey, everybody. Frank here. Just wanted to say thank you so much to everybody who tuned in to

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episode one of the reboot of New Renaissance Capital, or the first episode, our last episode

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with Zia Saad, Iranian digital activist, as well as independent Bitcoin educator, and wanted to say

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welcome to episode two here. On a quick note about the last episode, Zia and I talked about his

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efforts to help get the Iranian people internet. They're currently dealing with an internet blackout

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because of the regime right now. So one of the ways you can do that is you can send some sats

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via lightning to the following address. It's patchybow79 at walletofsatoshi.com. That's

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P-A-T-C-H-Y-B-O-W-7-9 at walletofsatoshi.com. And again, those sats will help to get Iranian

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people access to the internet. I want to thank also Zia for coming on the show. It was great to

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kick things off again with him, to kick the show back off with him. He's an absolute legend. The

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work he does is incredibly important. And if you didn't get a chance to listen to that episode,

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please check it out. Also, just wanted to give a little bit of background on today's episode.

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I recorded this next episode or this episode that you're listening to now with Rani Maduida,

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who is the co-founder of the Afribit Kibera Project.

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This is a Bitcoin circular economy within a region of Nairobi, Kenya called Kibera,

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which is an informal settlement, sometimes referred to as a slum,

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within the city limits of the capital of Kenya, Nairobi.

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I've been there myself. There's about 600,000 people living in this area.

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I didn't see all of them, but I was in a smaller region of it where the Afribit Project is run out of.

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and they're doing truly remarkable work.

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I really can't stress that enough.

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Ronnie's going to detail that for you in just a moment.

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One of the things I wanted to highlight, though,

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is a little bit of a backdrop for this conversation

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is that this area is very well known

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for having tons of different NGOs work in it,

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just ridiculous amounts almost.

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And it's interesting.

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There's so much money going to these NGOs,

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but the area doesn't necessarily get any better.

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Afribit has been different, though.

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It's had a very material impact on the people

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with whom Ronnie and the team there have been working with.

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And they've been doing a great job in catalyzing change

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within each of the individuals that they're working with.

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Just wanted to put that out there.

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And also, there were two platforms or apps that were mentioned.

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I just wanted to give a little background on them,

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as we didn't necessarily define them in great detail on the show.

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The first is Machankora,

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which is an app that allows people to send Bitcoin without internet reception.

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You can just use your phone and text internet.

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So you can, I'm sorry, text Bitcoin to one another.

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You can use like a non-smartphone, like the old Nokia phones.

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You can send Bitcoin over those or over WhatsApp.

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Truly remarkable technology.

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Definitely go check it out.

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That's Machankura.

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And then also Fetty.

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Fetty is a super app that lets people send e-cash, Bitcoin over Lightning,

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lets them engage with Nostr, open source AI, all sorts of really cool stuff.

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So check out Fetty as well.

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And I'm going to leave at that.

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Let's dive into the episode. Before we do, actually, please, if you don't mind, hit the like and subscribe buttons.

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We're really trying to make this thing something this time around.

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The first time I did the show, it was more of a hobby. This time, we're trying to turn it into something a little bit bigger.

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If you could help us out in that process, we'd greatly appreciate it.

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And with that, let me turn it over to the conversation.

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This is my talk with Ronnie Maduida, co-founder of the Afribit Kibera Project.

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Welcome back, everybody, to let's call this episode two of season two of New Renaissance Capital.

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I'm here with an incredibly legendary human being, Rani Maduida, one of the organizers and founders of Afribit, which is a circular economy in Kenya, a Bitcoin circular economy in Kenya,

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in a particular part of Kenya within Nairobi, within the city limits of the capital,

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called Kibera. And the project is called Afripet Kibera. And it's doing amazing work with residents

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of Kenya who are in some cases unbanked, often many who are of lower socioeconomic status.

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The efforts are also tied to cleaning up the environment in the area. So it's a very holistic

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project that's having an incredible impact. I'm going to talk about this a little bit more,

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but I want Ronnie to be able to introduce himself here a bit.

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So Ronnie, if you don't mind, if you could tell us a bit about yourself

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and maybe a bit about the Afrobit project.

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Hi, thank you, Frank.

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Definitely amazing to connect again.

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I am Ronnie Mdarida, a co-founder at Afrobit Kibera.

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At Afrobit Kibera, we are all about educating people

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and giving them knowledge and access to tools

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that help promote Bitcoin circular economy.

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Why Kibra?

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Kibra is one of the most sidelined or sort of marginalized areas

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in terms of financial access.

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The traditional banking system doesn't really cater to the needs

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of this specific segment.

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And our focus has been mainly working with what you'd call,

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quote-unquote, the working poor group.

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This is the garbage collection and the daily vendors who sell vegetables and everything you'll find on the red sites.

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Yeah.

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Appreciate that.

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So Kibera, to give it a little bit more context, it's the largest informal settlement in Africa.

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I don't like this.

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Sometimes people call it a slum, but I don't really like the term.

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So it's this place that's not really governed by a lot of the formal structures that govern maybe downtown Nairobi, right? There's just not the same amount of garbage collection, for instance, or not the same social services available to many of the residents in Kipira.

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I saw it myself. I was there to visit. I met Rani in person at the end of 2024 after the African Bitcoin conference in Kenya that year. And it's a lot of people living without much means. And Bitcoin, amongst other aspects of what Kibara is doing, is helping some of these people there.

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So you just mentioned a little bit of the program related to garbage collection and upcycling. Could you touch a little bit about on that and how that's connected to Bitcoin to start?

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Great, yeah. So what we are trying to do, and we are still very early on, it is basically to use Bitcoin as a tool of empowerment. But what we are doing is community building and community empowerment.

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We are not focusing on Bitcoin, just Bitcoin, but Bitcoin can be a powerful tool for this working group.

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And like you touched, the waste management group, this is one of the pioneer groups that we started with.

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And it entails everyone.

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This is guys who have some decent education, guys who have no education at all.

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And these are guys who would still do their garbage collection efforts, even without Bitcoin anyways.

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So they're already organized.

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This is something they do, either to make a small living out of it, but also to sort of take care of their own environment.

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So on talking with them, we figured out this was one of the key entry points, you know, that we could sort of utilize.

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and we started by incentivizing these guys who,

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they still do their garbage collection anyways,

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but when they did the garbage collection,

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we would incentivize them with some sats.

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And we picked it from there, but then we had a good challenge

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and this is a few guys who we had known earlier,

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we could call them like the local whales.

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they would come up and just mop up like all the Bitcoin that these guys were paid out to.

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So it was a good challenge because we saw the gaps that were existent. So we moved on to

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what we would call incentivized learning. Most of these guys do not really have time like you

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know to attend classes and there was already perception like Bitcoin is this, Bitcoin is a

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scam that was really, really grounded in the community.

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And we had other previous negative incidents that had happened in the community.

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So it was quite a bit of a hard sell.

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But yeah, we took it as a challenge and we decided to do incentivized learning where

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we were doing now Bitcoin sessions.

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We partnered with the core, the Adobe tab servers.

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and for every, we decided to do 15 mandatory

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for every person who was in the garbage collection.

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So these were like five sessions that we did.

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So we told them, look, on the third session,

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you will get some certs just for attending.

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We're going to give you some certs for attending.

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And they were like, wow, okay, sounds cool, good idea.

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But by that third session, a lot of these guys, there was a lot of talk now in the community about Bitcoin, about Bitcoin.

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And they were sort of now becoming like so, you know, into it.

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And it kind of had a life of its own, you know, from there.

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By the time we were finishing the third session, this was the working group that was most Bitcoinized in this community.

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and they had so many ideas that they were generating themselves

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and there was a lot of peer-to-peer learning now that was sort of happening.

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It had another beautiful challenge in a sense that the cohorts that were doing this

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were mainly male-dominated, so the ladies felt kind of like left out

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and the ladies came up with the idea of upcycling.

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They were like, hey, look, we can't go into the garbage trains,

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but we could repurpose some old garments.

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How about if we buy them from the women

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and we pay the women in sorts

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and we could create deckers.

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So a few women there had some skills

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on doing deckers from these upcycled materials.

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Could I just ask you a question?

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That word you're saying,

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I don't fully understand how you're saying it.

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I apologize.

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I think it might just be a little bit of your accent.

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D-E-C-K-E-R-S, deckers?

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yes decas yeah like um you know repurposed mats they would use mats

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decorations it's decorations okay yeah decorations yeah it's decorations that they would make now from

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these uh uh old garments which would otherwise also be ending in the uh in the landfills they

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We started repurposing bottles to create also some decorations and all that.

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And with this, they are able now to sell these actually and earn an income.

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And also they are able also like, you know, to convert, you know, a portion of their income now into Bitcoin.

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So that is how we ended up with the upcycling and the waste management effort.

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And these are the guys who actually helped us also recruit the merchants.

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because we asked them one question like,

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if you had these certs, where would you spend them?

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If it was money, because it is money, yes, we know,

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but this is money, so you want to get value out of it.

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Where would you take these certs?

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And the guys were like, okay, washrooms,

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we would need to go to be able to pay for the washrooms

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because in Kibra we have communal washrooms

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and you have to pay to use these washrooms?

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I'm going to clarify for people if you don't mind.

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So most people in the facilities in which they're living,

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the homes in which they live,

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which are oftentimes not formal structures, if you will,

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they don't have a washroom within that structure.

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They go to a more of a communal place to shower, to bathe.

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Yes, absolutely, 100%.

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100%, yeah.

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So we have communal showers here whereby people can go to the bathroom there

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and they do their showers and everything else.

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So that was one of the points.

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The other point was corner shops.

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The other point was entertainment spots where they could go and watch their games.

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Like Premier League is big here, La Liga, soccer basically.

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so they could use sats to pay and watch for those games.

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So our attention now turned towards the merchant.

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And you find the merchants who are much older

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than most of the guys we were dealing with who were young.

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So they were even more skeptical, you know, of accepting Bitcoin.

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Yes, accepting Bitcoin.

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So we had now to do what we call like one-on-one sessions.

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so what we did was basically like I opened up my personal home for most of these guys.

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They could come, we have a cup of coffee, we have a cup of tea, we have lunch, we chat,

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we find where their fears are coming from and you know just no pressure, just addressing those as

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you go. If you have an event you invite one, you tag along with them so it was a slow process which

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took a lot of time and building trust even though it was there,

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but this was a whole new initiative where now money was involved directly.

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And eventually some of them started accepting.

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I know early on there were some young people, businesses,

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who were already doing this,

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but some of the key services were mainly owned by slightly older people.

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And it took time to onboard them, showing them trust.

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even in some cases where we had to sort of like put a fiat sort of like you know deposit to these

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people and to assure them like look if you lose money here is maybe like 50 dollars for you to

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recoup from this we just want you to see the process so that is how we kind of built now the

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process now with the merchants and then the other angle we use now was encouraging the merchants to

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buy also from other merchants, but also to save. It was really hard to get these people to save in

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Bitcoin before actually seeing like, you know, they could use this as a means of exchange.

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But with education, as more people got to learn about Bitcoin, the education,

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transacting with it, the behavior patterns were changing. So we started seeing now there was a

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slow, you know, there was a

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slow use. People were not using

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their Bitcoin as much. So we were like,

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hmm, maybe these guys are going to

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Tando, they're turning it into Fiat.

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Can I stop for there just for one sec? So Tando,

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for people who don't know, I'm just going to give a shout

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out to the team, Sabina and

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Jason. So Tando is an app that I

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used while I was in Kenya where

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you could pay from your Lightning wallet and then

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via an API it gets converted

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into a payment over the

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M-Pesa network, which is the digital mobile money network in Kenya. So just to clarify for those who

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might not be familiar, definitely check out Tondo. Shout out to Tondo. It makes it easy

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for those who don't have maybe a national ID, which we'll get to in a second, or who don't have

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a mobile money account. Like myself, when I was in Kenya, I can't become a part of the M-Pesa

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network because I'm not a Kenyan citizen and I don't have a national ID, but I could still make

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payments over it via my lightning wallet which was very cool i don't mean to interrupt you rani

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i just wanted to clarify for the audience yeah sure it's an amazing tool for sure especially

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for onboarding people so it has been very powerful like you know in uh uh sort of like

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orange peep and peeling people and showing them like hey look this is real money anyway and uh

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it was interesting to have just to build on top to have jason and sabina in one of the sessions

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and after these guys had sort of like you know gotten some educations they are like hey tando

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guys where's my money you guys have my money so that was really interesting but we had brought them

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in to come and show people like hey guys look you're building your community here if you are

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within the ecosystem please don't use tando just do peer-to-peer but if you want yeah right

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Absolutely. So that we can keep this value, you know, within this community and grow it here. Yeah.

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I love that. And you said that I did I interrupted you and I apologize again, but you said that you saw behaviors changing. People weren't spending as much. Was it that they were starting to save a little bit more? Maybe they didn't want to spend as frivolously or on certain things because they were realizing, OK, this thing increases in value over time. Was that part of the what was causing behaviors to change?

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Yes, that was part of what was causing behavior to change.

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And it was a surprise also to us and myself personally,

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because the notion we had was,

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and I think this is from just the mob mentality.

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People in Kibirah are living on a dollar a day.

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They cannot afford to save.

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But these guys were actually saving.

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And this could be proven because we have a community WhatsApp group

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where we can do peer-to-peer.

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Guys can say like, hey, who is offloading some certs?

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And guys would sell the certs to each other.

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We are sort of like the second layer, Mitch, I and some other guys, whereby if they don't get to buy from anyone, they could come now to us.

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So we could hear that, see that behavior pattern a lot.

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And then with the new tools that came in like Bitika and Minmo, which are tools now for buying Bitcoin locally, we saw a huge surge in numbers.

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And this is just the feedback from the guys themselves who are telling us like, wow, your community is really buying Bitcoin.

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Now, when someone is buying Bitcoin, for sure you do know, like, you know, they're not just buying it to spend, but they are buying it like, you know, to save or something like that.

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It was a really beautiful surprise and a behavior change that we had not envisioned.

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It was going to happen as, you know, as early as we thought.

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Amazing.

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and it's a testament to the work that you and the likes of Mitch who you just mentioned are doing

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and Sarah a bunch of people who I met while I was there so let's actually rewind a little bit

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and maybe go to the foundation of Kibara of what you're doing with Afribit the work that you had

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been doing in Kibara before this and the people who are involved aside from yourself in founding

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this project?

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Yeah.

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So I started engaging in Kibra as a very young man I slightly older now so I had a lot of friends there And we had set up a lot of groups

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This was mainly after my stay in Canada.

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When I came back, I was really motivated to do something grassroots.

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And for me, it was two fronts.

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My village where I was born and the informal settlement where I had a lot of friends.

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So in Kibra, we started with reform programs.

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And most of these guys were actually criminals.

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And there's even a group called Reform Youth Group, which is led by Moha and some amazing young guys who had serious behavior change.

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and it has turned around a lot of lives.

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And for me, these are guys we came back and started working with

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and we were working with what we had.

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We were not structured to apply for any funding.

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We were not compliant.

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This was way before Bitcoin, you know.

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So we were just doing this.

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Can I ask what year just so that the audience,

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maybe just to give some content?

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From 2010 onwards, yeah.

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From 2010 onwards.

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So we were running volunteer programs.

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We had initiated.

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There was a lot of interest and curiosity for most visitors who wanted to, you know, come to see Kibera.

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We looked at it differently.

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Some people would look at it like, you know, it's exploiting the poor people.

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But we were like, OK, what value can it bring to the community?

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So for some of these guys who had gone through the behavior change program and had structured themselves into what we call community-based organizations, which most of these waste managements are also built on, we started what you would call like tourism.

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But this was more of experience learning for people who are of curious minds.

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So you would come visit the slum, but there were four different stops whereby you would go.

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You would visit a home just to learn how people live.

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You would visit a group that is maybe creating something like the Bonds Group who are doing recycling and making some amazing jewelry.

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Then you would visit a school.

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This is to give you an opportunity maybe to support school.

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And then now you would visit a women group, which was also doing something.

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because we couldn't take all these different groups to the visitors

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who had already been told Kibra is dangerous,

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they can't do this, they can't do that.

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So it's an idea that we came up with the young people

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and we started some of those projects,

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which had a huge impact both in personal lives of these guys.

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That is, I'm talking about Explore Kibira,

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Kevin's Kibira Slam Tours,

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the largest walking slam tour in Kibira,

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by Raleigh and the likes. And it employed a lot of young people who would offer guided tours,

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to people who are curious, you know, to learn, to people who are coming to do research,

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and also to volunteers, people who felt like maybe, okay, I want to come teach or maybe help

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a youth group in some skills development or learning. So that is how we looked at it. But

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it had a very good impact in one of these areas.

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The other area that we were involved was building sustainable programs

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that were really grounded, like, you know, in the community.

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And this was like, let's say a space would be reclaimed,

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and this place, once it's reclaimed from trash, would set up maybe a greenhouse.

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This was just to show people, like, you know, look,

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these places you are trashing and you are seeing is full of waste can actually be a productive area.

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So for us, it was more of like, you know, a different mindset and alternative thinking.

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And the other initiative we focused on, there was a lot of people in Kibra who are really, really smart,

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but then they did not have an opportunity to advance their education or maybe even go to secondary schools and things like that.

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So we started doing scholarships.

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And this is where Sarah and her friend from Australia started the Kickstart Initiative.

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To date, they have done over 160 kids all the way through, like, you know, to the university.

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They provide school fees.

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They provide pocket money.

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And they provide mentorship to these kids.

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And right now, we are, I think, at the second cycle of some of these guys who are working.

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And they are back now empowering their community.

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But all these efforts have to be accompanied by some sort of mentoring because there's that attitude of, look, if I leave the slums, I don't want to come back here.

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So in that community building sense, you have to create also like an Ubuntu sort of system whereby when someone succeeds, they are able to help their families or help their friends, you know, to move up the ladder as well.

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Could you explain, if you don't mind, I mean, in so many words, you did begin to explain it.

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Just technically, what is the Ubuntu system?

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So this idea that if you succeed on a certain level that you help others do the same?

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Yes.

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So this is what it is like, you know, in practicality.

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What we are looking at is COVA is supporting a kid in Kibra, you know, through their high school education.

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So what we were looking into is like how do we 10x your impact?

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with 10x your impact only if we can add value to this person who is being sponsored it's not

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just about sponsoring sending the money and saying hey look you have sponsorship here

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but it's much more than that it's much more in a sense like you have to mentor these people

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so that you can have a wholesome person at the end of the day,

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whereby as they finish their studies,

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they are not only looking of leaving the community.

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00:26:50,402 --> 00:26:53,582
It's very much like Bitcoin, if we bring it right now,

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where we want to hold it into the community to build value.

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Yes, we are not holding you to live in Kibra,

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but we are asking you and we are instilling in you values

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whereby as you succeed, pull other person with you also ahead.

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And we are seeing this is working from the very, very pioneer days that we did.

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And we hope we can apply this with Bitcoin as well.

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I appreciate the description of Ubuntu.

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And I think that it speaks to this idea that the problems that you're trying to solve in

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Kibara, you're trying to solve in a very holistic way.

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00:27:28,442 --> 00:27:32,922
You're not looking at one thing and saying, OK, this person doesn't have this.

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They don't have the financial means.

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00:27:34,082 --> 00:27:37,782
There's a lot of they don't have access to certain things. They don't have emotional support.

355
00:27:38,262 --> 00:27:48,782
There's a lot of things that go into this. And even the way that you described inviting people to your house, you know, the fiat down payment saying like, if this Bitcoin thing fails, we'll give you this $50 back.

356
00:27:48,902 --> 00:27:55,342
All those little things add up because if you just say, hey, Bitcoin is great and people don't really have an understanding of it.

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Maybe I don't know the price in fiat terms drops and then they forget about it or they don't use it and then they forget about it.

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There has to be some sort of sustained effort and not only around Bitcoin, but with any human being.

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They need support. They need people behind them, pushing them to not pushing them, but, you know, just just there to support them.

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00:28:13,602 --> 00:28:21,382
And I think that that's a big part of the work, not only that you're doing now with Afribit, but that you have been doing since, I guess, pre 2010.

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00:28:21,942 --> 00:28:31,382
But the one thing more specifically to Bitcoin, I wanted the audience to kind of understand this, because there is the narrative in Bitcoin that it's banking the unbanked.

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people who don't have access to traditional banking or financial structures.

363
00:28:36,022 --> 00:28:41,642
And in the case of, let's say you're a refugee living in this area of Kenya in Kibura,

364
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from my understanding, you're not allowed to have a national ID.

365
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And without a national ID, you cannot create an M-Pesa account.

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So you really can't be a part of this digital economy,

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this digital payment network that most people use in Kenya.

368
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So Bitcoin actually does fill this gap of giving people a digital money to use

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when the traditional system does not provide that for them.

370
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Do I have that clear?

371
00:29:05,962 --> 00:29:07,462
I just want to make sure I'm getting that correct.

372
00:29:08,462 --> 00:29:09,662
Yes, absolutely.

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Though the numbers are not that high right now,

374
00:29:14,902 --> 00:29:16,042
but when we were starting,

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I remember there was a guy who was running a barbershop

376
00:29:18,862 --> 00:29:22,762
and this guy was from Congo, you know,

377
00:29:22,942 --> 00:29:25,262
and he's still our barbers today,

378
00:29:25,442 --> 00:29:27,502
Meeches and all those guys use him.

379
00:29:27,502 --> 00:29:30,422
And for him, like when he learned about Bitcoin,

380
00:29:30,762 --> 00:29:37,342
He was so passionate about it because a lot of the guys, you know, they would stay under the radar.

381
00:29:38,562 --> 00:29:42,242
Under the radar in a sense that they don't want to attract any attention.

382
00:29:42,462 --> 00:29:45,362
But he was like, hey, I didn't know I could use this.

383
00:29:45,522 --> 00:29:50,702
And he could apply, you know, like even with the Tando and all these other platforms.

384
00:29:50,702 --> 00:29:58,702
So it was a game changer for him in a sense that he was looking at it like, you know, he could receive money.

385
00:29:58,702 --> 00:30:05,402
and he could also like, you know, send money back home

386
00:30:05,402 --> 00:30:08,162
in terms of like remittances.

387
00:30:09,082 --> 00:30:13,322
But the beauty of it was he was willing like, you know,

388
00:30:13,382 --> 00:30:17,322
to bring a few of his friends to the Bitcoin education classes

389
00:30:17,322 --> 00:30:22,322
and see how that could cater to this specific cohort of people.

390
00:30:22,322 --> 00:30:24,242
And it's not only that.

391
00:30:24,242 --> 00:30:33,302
there are other guys who losing identity cards in Kibla is very normal because a lot of those guys

392
00:30:33,302 --> 00:30:41,062
they are in and out in and out and I would point to a specific group which we actually onboarded

393
00:30:41,062 --> 00:30:46,602
way later it's called the Golden Hat Youth Group these guys were already doing their garbage

394
00:30:46,602 --> 00:30:52,422
collection they went under just like any other groups that would stop when maybe some members

395
00:30:52,422 --> 00:30:54,242
move on with their things and stuff.

396
00:30:54,902 --> 00:31:00,942
And what happened to this group was they had saved some of their money in a bank.

397
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But then they were dormant for quite some time and their account was re-activated.

398
00:31:09,522 --> 00:31:16,002
Then someone came and said like, hey, look, if you guys organize yourself, we can give

399
00:31:16,002 --> 00:31:16,822
you some funding.

400
00:31:17,102 --> 00:31:21,302
And that is why you find so many groups in Kibira have bank accounts.

401
00:31:21,302 --> 00:31:26,602
it's because people like me and you would go and say like look if you guys organize yourself

402
00:31:26,602 --> 00:31:33,062
make a group create a group we will give you some funding what you need is a bank account

403
00:31:33,062 --> 00:31:38,842
this and that so they would do everything to get a bank account but what does that entangue it

404
00:31:38,842 --> 00:31:45,022
charges them fees recurring fees which they can't really keep up with so that's why the accounts

405
00:31:45,022 --> 00:31:50,722
run dormant. Anyway, back to the Golden Heart group, these guys were dormant for some time.

406
00:31:51,442 --> 00:31:59,382
And what happened is they wanted now to come back again to business and they were told,

407
00:31:59,382 --> 00:32:04,322
okay, you need to reactivate your group. But so much had happened in a sense that

408
00:32:04,322 --> 00:32:13,082
the secretary, the guy who was holding the CBO, what we call the Community-Based Organization

409
00:32:13,082 --> 00:32:19,622
certificate his house had burned in fires which most of the time also like happened

410
00:32:19,622 --> 00:32:25,962
and they were being requested for this particular certificate to go and reactivate the account

411
00:32:25,962 --> 00:32:32,842
so in they lost their money because the process of getting another certificate

412
00:32:32,842 --> 00:32:40,022
was way more tedious than actually you know like opening another probably bank account

413
00:32:40,022 --> 00:32:46,922
so they lost that 4,000 so for them they were like for us bitcoin is a plug because it's

414
00:32:46,922 --> 00:32:53,142
permissionless we don't need anyone's permission like you know to save our money we can save our

415
00:32:53,142 --> 00:33:01,642
money in multi in clan or you know in multi-spend and be accountable and with our own selves and

416
00:33:01,642 --> 00:33:07,702
they are doing that to date they are doing that to date because in all the scenarios all the people

417
00:33:07,702 --> 00:33:13,422
who have told them open a bank account, they have never, ever come back, like, you know, to fund them

418
00:33:13,422 --> 00:33:20,602
or anything like that. So it's been a leakage of value, like, over time for the minimal resources,

419
00:33:20,602 --> 00:33:27,302
like, you know, that are the whole. But so that is another angle of documentation. If you're talking

420
00:33:27,302 --> 00:33:34,442
about some of these guys' documentation, apart from the immigrants, which are scattered around

421
00:33:34,442 --> 00:33:42,322
the Kibra area. The area we are working in, yes, there are some, but a few. But there's a fair

422
00:33:42,322 --> 00:33:51,042
number of other groups which are also disenfranchised because they don't meet what you

423
00:33:51,042 --> 00:33:55,102
would call the standards or the threshold, you know, like to hold a bank account.

424
00:33:56,002 --> 00:33:59,962
Understood. Appreciate that. So yeah, I just wanted to highlight that one particular thing

425
00:33:59,962 --> 00:34:02,082
that Bitcoin very specifically does solve.

426
00:34:02,962 --> 00:34:04,602
Another thing to highlight,

427
00:34:04,702 --> 00:34:06,022
and we've touched on this a little bit,

428
00:34:06,102 --> 00:34:07,802
but to maybe go into greater detail,

429
00:34:08,402 --> 00:34:11,482
Afrobit has what's called a seven pillar plan.

430
00:34:11,662 --> 00:34:14,682
So there's just many pillars to sort of helping people

431
00:34:14,682 --> 00:34:18,442
in the community to achieve success and to be sovereign

432
00:34:18,442 --> 00:34:21,422
and just, you know, obviously just get to a better,

433
00:34:21,682 --> 00:34:23,682
have a better lot in life.

434
00:34:25,082 --> 00:34:26,502
What's some of the other work

435
00:34:26,502 --> 00:34:27,582
that you're doing in the community?

436
00:34:27,702 --> 00:34:28,962
I know some of it hasn't yet,

437
00:34:28,962 --> 00:34:36,962
The whole plan has not been put into motion yet, but what have you gotten started with and what do you plan to also do in the community outside of even Bitcoin?

438
00:34:37,802 --> 00:34:40,202
So something that we are working on right now

439
00:34:40,202 --> 00:34:44,522
and we see as a priority

440
00:34:44,522 --> 00:34:47,442
is what we are calling like a business accelerator.

441
00:34:48,602 --> 00:34:51,902
And with the help of a few guys,

442
00:34:52,142 --> 00:34:55,762
and a shout out also, of course, to Robert Kirubi,

443
00:34:55,842 --> 00:34:58,282
has been very instrumental after his retirement

444
00:34:58,282 --> 00:35:01,862
and he's helping us build some of this initiative.

445
00:35:02,622 --> 00:35:03,202
Robert Karine.

446
00:35:03,902 --> 00:35:05,682
Yeah, you find there's a lot of leakage

447
00:35:05,682 --> 00:35:07,382
in these communities.

448
00:35:08,282 --> 00:35:12,362
So I'll give you an example for the Boda Boda guys.

449
00:35:13,422 --> 00:35:20,202
These Boda Boda guys, motorbike riders,

450
00:35:20,502 --> 00:35:22,742
these are the guys who would carry us from Point A.

451
00:35:22,742 --> 00:35:26,222
Those are very common in Africa and very common in Kenya.

452
00:35:27,062 --> 00:35:31,322
So one of the things that was happening was these riders,

453
00:35:31,742 --> 00:35:33,922
they do peer-to-peer education.

454
00:35:33,922 --> 00:35:41,582
just I have a bike I teach Kova how to ride he starts riding he starts getting a few rides here

455
00:35:41,582 --> 00:35:47,782
and there to earn some few money but we knew that was dangerous and that was not good so what we

456
00:35:47,782 --> 00:35:54,722
started doing was we sat with these guys and asked them like hey look how can we make this

457
00:35:54,722 --> 00:36:01,162
better for you guys it's already yes your work that you're doing it's putting bread and butter

458
00:36:01,162 --> 00:36:07,142
in your table, but how are we going to improve it? First of all, for you to be able to be more

459
00:36:07,142 --> 00:36:14,022
effective, you need to be compliant. So how do you help them get maybe like a driving license

460
00:36:14,022 --> 00:36:19,682
or a riding license? And also to be able to get like something simple as insurance.

461
00:36:20,262 --> 00:36:26,422
Because when they are riding that motorbike without insurance, without, you know, a license,

462
00:36:26,422 --> 00:36:35,462
their life is just a few inches away, you know, the risk and the risk of finding or building or

463
00:36:35,462 --> 00:36:41,842
finding resources is way too high. So they said, like, look, if you give us money, we are not going

464
00:36:41,842 --> 00:36:49,462
to lie. We will use it for other expenses, you know, and we will put it into our daily needs.

465
00:36:49,462 --> 00:36:56,862
so this is the deal if you can pay for us or find your friends who can pay for us

466
00:36:56,862 --> 00:37:06,442
and pay for our driving so that we get the licenses and pay for our insurances so if

467
00:37:06,442 --> 00:37:13,042
anything happens to us or our bikes there's some sort of compensation we are eager and open to have

468
00:37:13,042 --> 00:37:18,322
an arrangement you know that will work for all of us and we were like what kind of arrangement would

469
00:37:18,322 --> 00:37:24,922
work and they were like what we do right now we operate with shylocks and the fees are very

470
00:37:24,922 --> 00:37:32,102
exorbitant so there's a lot of experts what those are shylocks yeah the looks are people who you

471
00:37:32,102 --> 00:37:38,462
will get money from but the interest rates are like maybe 300 percent okay got it so it's it's

472
00:37:38,462 --> 00:37:48,202
crazy so we piloted with uh 10 guys as of today where we did find just some local people hey help

473
00:37:48,202 --> 00:37:55,062
these people. This is their need. And they would pay for these riders, their licenses. And then

474
00:37:55,062 --> 00:38:03,362
these guys would pay back, you know, per week, but they would pay back in Bitcoin. Yeah, they will pay

475
00:38:03,362 --> 00:38:09,182
a standard fixed amount in fiat, but then they are paying back in Bitcoin. So these are people who are

476
00:38:09,182 --> 00:38:14,142
holding on their resources and they're holding on long term, but they are willing to help people,

477
00:38:14,142 --> 00:38:16,562
but not just give out money for free.

478
00:38:17,482 --> 00:38:23,842
So let's say I have 10,000 that is sitting somewhere.

479
00:38:24,122 --> 00:38:25,882
I could say like, hey, look, okay,

480
00:38:26,002 --> 00:38:29,522
I can pay 2,000 shillings for your license.

481
00:38:30,222 --> 00:38:31,562
Give me back in Bitcoin.

482
00:38:31,762 --> 00:38:33,882
Every week, you can give me an equivalent

483
00:38:33,882 --> 00:38:37,042
of 500 Kenya shillings.

484
00:38:37,262 --> 00:38:40,182
But in Bitcoin, you have to change it into Bitcoin

485
00:38:40,182 --> 00:38:41,982
and send me into Bitcoin.

486
00:38:41,982 --> 00:38:44,082
But that has a double impact.

487
00:38:44,142 --> 00:38:51,082
these guys are starting to see like, hmm, why am I paying Roni back in Bitcoin and not in Kenya

488
00:38:51,082 --> 00:38:56,982
Shilling? So they're starting to see the value in that. And that's automatically also like, you know,

489
00:38:57,422 --> 00:39:04,022
gets their mind thinking like, okay, I want to put my savings also like, you know, in Bitcoin.

490
00:39:04,182 --> 00:39:08,742
So that has been working really well. The other issue that we are moving into,

491
00:39:08,742 --> 00:39:13,662
and this is with the help of Robert, is we have structured these groups

492
00:39:13,662 --> 00:39:18,002
where we have these groups are utilizing now like the clan,

493
00:39:18,862 --> 00:39:21,342
the multi-spend feature in Fedi.

494
00:39:21,802 --> 00:39:26,242
And how we want to do this is, let's say like the garbage collection group.

495
00:39:26,902 --> 00:39:28,802
These guys do save anyways.

496
00:39:29,382 --> 00:39:33,422
They make sure once they collect garbage, they save some of their money.

497
00:39:33,962 --> 00:39:35,542
Initially, they were saving in fiat,

498
00:39:35,542 --> 00:39:40,482
But now they save a portion of their money also like in sands.

499
00:39:41,282 --> 00:39:54,162
So we are trying to give them some seed capital whereby they can build collateral and they are able to borrow eventually, you know, against their Bitcoin.

500
00:39:54,162 --> 00:39:59,662
because what is happening with the reliance on predatory loans

501
00:39:59,662 --> 00:40:01,342
that are existing right now,

502
00:40:01,802 --> 00:40:06,182
there is a lot of value that is leaking outside the community

503
00:40:06,182 --> 00:40:10,342
and this value could actually be converted into Bitcoin

504
00:40:10,342 --> 00:40:14,122
and our future would have been much, much, much brighter.

505
00:40:14,262 --> 00:40:15,422
Yes, we know it will be brighter,

506
00:40:15,562 --> 00:40:17,822
but we want to minimize all the leakages.

507
00:40:17,822 --> 00:40:21,222
So this is where the holistic approach now comes in.

508
00:40:21,222 --> 00:40:37,844
How do you deal with those issues in the business accelerator How do you deal with a woman maybe who is going through some emotional turmoil So we have people we partner with people who are able to come and do like mental health workshops

509
00:40:38,604 --> 00:40:44,464
We have the BitServors and some other organizations who are coming in to do like,

510
00:40:45,184 --> 00:40:49,644
to come and do like savings, financial literacy.

511
00:40:49,644 --> 00:40:56,084
not just teaching about Bitcoin, but just helping them to learn about financial literacy.

512
00:40:56,764 --> 00:40:58,464
Like, you know what it means.

513
00:40:58,904 --> 00:41:03,024
Like, all those components add into the, like, you know, building of the community.

514
00:41:03,564 --> 00:41:08,544
How do we structure programs whereby you have more groups like Sarah

515
00:41:08,544 --> 00:41:11,804
who are coming to support with the education effort?

516
00:41:11,964 --> 00:41:15,324
This puts less pressure on the resources for the parents.

517
00:41:15,324 --> 00:41:19,804
and again, they are able to save a portion

518
00:41:19,804 --> 00:41:22,844
or some bit of their money into Bitcoin.

519
00:41:23,184 --> 00:41:25,424
So you don't run with Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Bitcoin,

520
00:41:25,424 --> 00:41:29,084
but you hide it and you use it as an engine

521
00:41:29,084 --> 00:41:33,684
and a tool that will empower them over time.

522
00:41:34,164 --> 00:41:37,324
And this is what we are trying to do in a nutshell.

523
00:41:37,484 --> 00:41:40,964
It's a lot to process, but step by step,

524
00:41:41,044 --> 00:41:41,844
there's no pressure.

525
00:41:42,104 --> 00:41:45,164
We are enjoying the journey and we are onboarding more

526
00:41:45,164 --> 00:41:49,604
and more resourceful people who are really adding the value.

527
00:41:50,064 --> 00:41:54,824
And the plan is to scale the impact eventually,

528
00:41:55,064 --> 00:41:58,064
have something that is sustainable, scalable,

529
00:41:58,464 --> 00:42:01,324
and it's not an engine to consume,

530
00:42:01,424 --> 00:42:03,864
but an engine that will churn productivity.

531
00:42:04,804 --> 00:42:06,564
Yep. Yep. Understood.

532
00:42:07,464 --> 00:42:12,504
I want to contextualize the depth of the impact that you've had.

533
00:42:12,504 --> 00:42:26,624
I think it was earlier last year, 2025, the BBC, the British Broadcasting, forgetting what the C stands for, Commission Network, whatever it is, they came to Kibira.

534
00:42:26,764 --> 00:42:30,404
They sent their correspondent based in Nairobi to Kibira.

535
00:42:30,924 --> 00:42:34,384
He had heard about what was happening there and went there.

536
00:42:34,504 --> 00:42:39,844
And now the BBC, for all those who are unaware, they do not tend to publish positive things about Bitcoin.

537
00:42:40,104 --> 00:42:41,404
That's not how the BBC works.

538
00:42:41,404 --> 00:42:44,164
They tend to be very antagonistic towards Bitcoin.

539
00:42:44,844 --> 00:42:52,244
And in this five-minute segment in which Ronnie was featured, they were very much like, look, this is genuinely solving problems.

540
00:42:52,404 --> 00:42:56,484
At the end, of course, they had some economist on who was like, but Bitcoin is volatile.

541
00:42:56,644 --> 00:42:59,164
They had to add something that was sort of like half negative.

542
00:42:59,164 --> 00:43:13,224
But the impact, it made me happy to see that even an organization that tends to write anything possible, anything they can that's negative about Bitcoin, they do it.

543
00:43:13,304 --> 00:43:19,044
But they saw what was happening on the ground and they did report on it in, I think, a very appropriate way.

544
00:43:19,684 --> 00:43:20,824
I don't want to say positive.

545
00:43:20,964 --> 00:43:24,464
I say appropriate because it's very, very positive what's happening on the ground.

546
00:43:24,564 --> 00:43:25,924
So they sort of captured that.

547
00:43:25,924 --> 00:43:32,204
I wanted to get a little behind the scenes on that though when that reporter came and that

548
00:43:32,204 --> 00:43:37,504
corresponding came what were those interactions like was he skeptical at first or was he excited

549
00:43:37,504 --> 00:43:44,064
about it what was the process of teaching him about what you were doing like so it was really

550
00:43:44,064 --> 00:43:48,524
interesting because we are not very big on interviews like I had shared with you we really

551
00:43:48,524 --> 00:43:54,924
enjoyed like you know working behind the scenes and all this Afribeat Kibera initiative actually

552
00:43:54,924 --> 00:43:58,624
you are the source who kind of, you know,

553
00:43:58,804 --> 00:44:02,744
gave us a lot of attention after you did the Forbes article.

554
00:44:03,724 --> 00:44:07,664
And so for the people, let me just clarify.

555
00:44:07,844 --> 00:44:11,404
Yeah. For people, after, after I visited in 2024, early 2025,

556
00:44:11,404 --> 00:44:17,484
I wrote a piece for Forbes on what I saw after interviewing Ronnie and some

557
00:44:17,484 --> 00:44:20,564
other people involved and, and, and seeing it with my own two eyes,

558
00:44:20,564 --> 00:44:22,404
I wrote a piece and I think Ronnie, you mentioned,

559
00:44:22,404 --> 00:44:26,444
you sent me an email saying, you know, there's we're getting more attention because of this.

560
00:44:26,484 --> 00:44:29,944
And I could even see I think it's the most read piece I've ever written for Forbes.

561
00:44:30,124 --> 00:44:32,824
So I was happy to see that it brought that sort of attention.

562
00:44:33,144 --> 00:44:37,904
I was always I'm always a little bit nervous because sometimes too much attention in some ways can be a bad thing.

563
00:44:37,904 --> 00:44:40,884
But I think it seems to have been a good thing overall.

564
00:44:40,884 --> 00:44:43,804
It's brought positive attention to the project, it seems like.

565
00:44:44,684 --> 00:44:47,664
Yes, absolutely. It brought a lot of attention.

566
00:44:48,064 --> 00:44:52,304
But we were trying to do a lot of things like, you know, behind the scenes.

567
00:44:52,404 --> 00:44:58,444
And for us, it was more of addressing the issues that we had at hand and using Bitcoin as a tool.

568
00:44:58,704 --> 00:44:59,804
That was our main focus.

569
00:45:00,244 --> 00:45:08,524
So back to BBC, I think Mike had almost like three interactions because we were not very keen on BBC.

570
00:45:08,524 --> 00:45:12,484
We didn't know like, you know, it was a big deal or anything like that.

571
00:45:12,584 --> 00:45:15,924
And I remember the first meeting is not even available.

572
00:45:16,184 --> 00:45:20,224
So I told him like, hey, look, Mitch is available and Sarah.

573
00:45:20,224 --> 00:45:23,404
so you can go maybe talk to them.

574
00:45:23,504 --> 00:45:24,344
I won't be around.

575
00:45:24,444 --> 00:45:28,204
And he was like, hey, look, I want to come see you first.

576
00:45:28,344 --> 00:45:30,424
So he's a very nice gentleman.

577
00:45:30,744 --> 00:45:31,324
He came.

578
00:45:32,124 --> 00:45:34,824
He actually visited me at the house, you know.

579
00:45:35,284 --> 00:45:37,804
And he came and you are like, okay,

580
00:45:38,064 --> 00:45:41,444
the challenge we have is a lot of people want to write about Bitcoin,

581
00:45:41,444 --> 00:45:44,204
but then they really don't understand what is really happening.

582
00:45:44,724 --> 00:45:47,324
So he came back to the site again.

583
00:45:47,904 --> 00:45:49,204
He saw some of the things.

584
00:45:49,204 --> 00:45:52,604
He met some of the members of the community on what was happening.

585
00:45:53,264 --> 00:45:58,204
We invited him to one of the Bitcoin and conferences that was happening.

586
00:45:58,704 --> 00:46:01,604
And he showed up and he even made contacts there.

587
00:46:02,044 --> 00:46:09,024
So we literally plugged him in, got him a wallet and sent him some resources to keep studying.

588
00:46:09,444 --> 00:46:15,684
And we were like, we can also link you up with Kova and you can learn more about contributing.

589
00:46:15,684 --> 00:46:22,464
but ever since we've gotten a lot of journalists who have come and we were like okay you guys need

590
00:46:22,464 --> 00:46:28,184
to get a one-on-one class you know on some of these things because you would have a very good

591
00:46:28,184 --> 00:46:36,504
impact if you can know how to message this it's not just about bitcoin it's a tool and they come

592
00:46:36,504 --> 00:46:41,704
back and they live with stories and they're like okay we want to come back so there was a lot of

593
00:46:41,704 --> 00:46:43,784
back and forth with Mike.

594
00:46:44,624 --> 00:46:48,564
And we did it, I think, after the fourth session.

595
00:46:49,044 --> 00:46:51,144
And we were under no pressure.

596
00:46:51,644 --> 00:46:57,624
And we have really tried to run away from interviews and publicity.

597
00:46:58,364 --> 00:47:00,544
But it kind of keeps catching up.

598
00:47:00,544 --> 00:47:06,644
Because even when, for example, there was a time some AP guys were coming

599
00:47:06,644 --> 00:47:09,104
and I was like, Mitch, you need to do these interviews.

600
00:47:09,104 --> 00:47:12,584
only to see me showing up with those guys at home.

601
00:47:12,724 --> 00:47:14,364
And I was like, dude, what's happening?

602
00:47:15,104 --> 00:47:16,264
And we were like, no.

603
00:47:18,044 --> 00:47:19,084
And he was like, no.

604
00:47:19,824 --> 00:47:25,024
So our home also was turned sort of like, you know, into a studio.

605
00:47:25,024 --> 00:47:28,904
Like, you know, the guys would come, set up their cameras,

606
00:47:29,444 --> 00:47:31,484
and oh, we are coming to talk to you as an expert.

607
00:47:31,644 --> 00:47:33,504
And we were like, no, no, no, no, I'm not an expert.

608
00:47:33,684 --> 00:47:35,984
If you're coming to talk to me as Roni, that's fine.

609
00:47:36,524 --> 00:47:38,924
But I'm not an expert in those issues.

610
00:47:39,104 --> 00:47:44,584
So we've had a lot of that, but a lot of them have been pleasant.

611
00:47:45,104 --> 00:47:46,184
We take our time.

612
00:47:46,304 --> 00:47:50,844
We are not very desperate about media and attention.

613
00:47:51,304 --> 00:47:59,064
So we're just trying to build a community and try and do the little that we can do.

614
00:48:00,644 --> 00:48:07,304
I think you underestimate, you know, not only your own power and how much of it, you know,

615
00:48:07,304 --> 00:48:24,844
But the impact that you've had and the impact that the organization is having and for anyone who is listening to this that might eventually one day travel to Kenya to Nairobi, I highly recommend that you visit to see it for yourself because there are very few people out there who are doing this work that Ronnie's doing.

616
00:48:25,164 --> 00:48:31,144
And in a second, I want to talk about some of the challenges because you make it seem very easy, though I know it is also very challenging on many levels.

617
00:48:31,144 --> 00:48:37,904
but this whole promise of Bitcoin was that at first it would be adopted by people who need it

618
00:48:37,904 --> 00:48:42,304
most and that's people who can't pay these bank account fees, that's people who have been

619
00:48:42,304 --> 00:48:49,644
historically financially disenfranchised and again I just want to reiterate that adoption

620
00:48:49,644 --> 00:48:56,244
in these places, Bitcoin itself doesn't flow into their view and then magically sort of teach them

621
00:48:56,244 --> 00:49:01,364
how to use it. It takes people like Ronnie who are dedicated and to also not only, again, teach

622
00:49:01,364 --> 00:49:04,904
them about this, but to do things like bring in mental health professionals to deal with people

623
00:49:04,904 --> 00:49:10,864
who are struggling with other things. The approach has to be holistic. And the thing with when you're

624
00:49:10,864 --> 00:49:16,744
meeting a need, when you're meeting needs for people where needs are very great, challenges can

625
00:49:16,744 --> 00:49:22,204
be overwhelming. Sometimes there's probably always a lack of resources. I don't want to say always a

626
00:49:22,204 --> 00:49:26,664
lack. That sounds like that. But there's, I would imagine you could always, there's more help you

627
00:49:26,664 --> 00:49:31,164
could, that would be, it would be beneficial to help what you're doing. So I'm curious to hear,

628
00:49:31,244 --> 00:49:34,424
you know, you make all this sound easy. You're incredibly humble. You're an incredibly good

629
00:49:34,424 --> 00:49:40,944
natured human being, but day in, day out, you know, a lot of what you're doing, there's a lot

630
00:49:40,944 --> 00:49:45,104
of weight to it. There's a lot, it's a lot to carry sometimes for people. And just simply being

631
00:49:45,104 --> 00:49:49,844
there for people emotionally in and of itself can be really trying. And then the other thing that

632
00:49:49,844 --> 00:49:54,644
people often don't discuss with Bitcoin, you know, in terms of the challenges is that you're talking

633
00:49:54,644 --> 00:50:00,624
about one of the most sensitive topics in the world, money, right? You're talking about people's

634
00:50:00,624 --> 00:50:06,224
money, you know, and whether or not that money retains value and provides them some sort of hope

635
00:50:06,224 --> 00:50:10,924
for the future, right? There's so much that goes into that. So even in moments like this, we've

636
00:50:10,924 --> 00:50:17,824
seen Bitcoin's price, at least in US dollars, drop almost 50% from its recent highs. You know,

637
00:50:17,824 --> 00:50:23,564
everybody maybe who over the last two years before that were watching it go up now they maybe watch

638
00:50:23,564 --> 00:50:27,164
it go down a little bit in fiat terms and they say hey ronnie like what do you what'd you get me

639
00:50:27,164 --> 00:50:30,784
into here what's happening i don't know if they're saying that or not i'm sure you teach them about

640
00:50:30,784 --> 00:50:35,864
the volatility but but there are many challenges that come with this and oftentimes the hardest

641
00:50:35,864 --> 00:50:41,924
part is that it's kind of thanked thankless when everything is going well people say thank you but

642
00:50:41,924 --> 00:50:45,744
you know people but then also when things don't go well they're like hey hey what happened what

643
00:50:45,744 --> 00:50:49,544
happened and then you are the bad guy all of a sudden. It's a really difficult role to play.

644
00:50:49,624 --> 00:50:53,504
And I'm not saying I'm not I don't want to I'm not putting anyone in the community down. I'm not

645
00:50:53,504 --> 00:50:57,924
saying they do that. But judging by the way you're laughing, I'm sure you've experienced some of this.

646
00:50:58,324 --> 00:51:03,104
So I want you to maybe talk a little bit about, if you don't mind, some of the challenges and then

647
00:51:03,104 --> 00:51:07,424
how you address them, because ideally, some people listening to this might be thinking about how they

648
00:51:07,424 --> 00:51:12,664
can have a bit more of a community impact. And I would say that before you put yourself in that

649
00:51:12,664 --> 00:51:18,024
role, you do need to, I'm not saying it should scare you, but you should become aware of the

650
00:51:18,024 --> 00:51:23,304
gravity of the task that you're taking on. So if you could just speak to the challenges a little

651
00:51:23,304 --> 00:51:28,864
bit, I would appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for your kind words. And yeah,

652
00:51:28,864 --> 00:51:36,744
I was just laughing because when the graph was going down, I think when we came back to

653
00:51:36,744 --> 00:51:38,444
Cape Town and

654
00:51:38,444 --> 00:51:40,264
you know we were

655
00:51:40,264 --> 00:51:42,364
walking around with

656
00:51:42,364 --> 00:51:43,984
the merchants just

657
00:51:43,984 --> 00:51:46,744
being present there and guys were like

658
00:51:46,744 --> 00:51:48,244
well okay what is happening

659
00:51:48,244 --> 00:51:50,424
like okay do you know the CEO

660
00:51:50,424 --> 00:51:51,944
of Bitcoin probably

661
00:51:51,944 --> 00:51:56,284
we could have a chat but you know

662
00:51:56,284 --> 00:51:58,064
thanks to some tools and

663
00:51:58,064 --> 00:52:00,264
the education efforts that

664
00:52:00,264 --> 00:52:02,384
we have been able

665
00:52:02,384 --> 00:52:04,284
like you know to do and

666
00:52:04,284 --> 00:52:06,484
again I would really emphasize this

667
00:52:06,484 --> 00:52:17,244
one of the key ingredients that helps, like, you know, Bitcoin education is really, really important

668
00:52:17,244 --> 00:52:23,524
in this aspect. And I'm talking about physical, not just a session that you would do and you close

669
00:52:23,524 --> 00:52:30,724
chapter, say you had 30 or 40 people. No. Education in a sense that you can sit with someone

670
00:52:30,724 --> 00:52:39,584
who doesn't get it, don't give up, sit back with them again.

671
00:52:39,824 --> 00:52:41,984
I used to get a lot of those requests, like, you know,

672
00:52:42,044 --> 00:52:43,424
can I come see you, you know?

673
00:52:43,684 --> 00:52:47,884
So time was actually one of the greatest things I think I gave

674
00:52:47,884 --> 00:52:51,284
because we needed to build trust.

675
00:52:51,284 --> 00:52:54,264
And even they would not trust maybe their own peers

676
00:52:54,264 --> 00:52:59,144
who had graduated to become, you know, like Bitcoin educators,

677
00:52:59,144 --> 00:53:03,204
but they just wanted to get that validation and go like,

678
00:53:03,444 --> 00:53:05,524
okay, am I hearing the right thing?

679
00:53:05,964 --> 00:53:08,564
Am I being referred to the right information?

680
00:53:09,244 --> 00:53:14,244
So time constraint was, I think, one of those key challenges.

681
00:53:14,764 --> 00:53:18,724
There are times I would sit at home and I could spend like maybe two days,

682
00:53:18,964 --> 00:53:22,804
you know, not two days, but the whole day with two people

683
00:53:22,804 --> 00:53:27,484
because they've gotten sucked in, but they want to understand.

684
00:53:27,484 --> 00:53:32,684
They want to talk. And you'd go like, OK, but I know I might not be able to find you, you know.

685
00:53:32,964 --> 00:53:38,764
So that was another issue. But education played a really, really critical role.

686
00:53:38,904 --> 00:53:48,304
And one of the approaches that we used was. Look at the motor riders sector, who is the loudest guy in this sector?

687
00:53:48,304 --> 00:53:57,384
Like who is the bishop in this sector and get that guy, build a relationship with him if you don't have one.

688
00:53:57,484 --> 00:54:07,344
turn him into this bishop now who is like so you know like uh influential yes influential

689
00:54:07,344 --> 00:54:12,584
bitcoin knowledge you pour all that bitcoin knowledge because there's a way he relates to

690
00:54:12,584 --> 00:54:18,524
these guys that you can't relate with these guys so that was one of the approaches we use same with

691
00:54:18,524 --> 00:54:24,784
the west management groups just to build on top of the education classes that we had we would have

692
00:54:24,784 --> 00:54:31,504
sessions with these key people. If it is Steph, you know, or Mercy from the Tumayini group,

693
00:54:32,204 --> 00:54:39,944
get her to understand and be open to her so that she can come in with all her fears, worries,

694
00:54:39,944 --> 00:54:45,624
and stuff. And she has a safe space, you know, like to ask very hard questions.

695
00:54:46,264 --> 00:54:51,604
And some of these questions are like, you know, how do I get to explain to people

696
00:54:51,604 --> 00:54:55,884
that I have onboarded now that Bitcoin is going down.

697
00:54:56,004 --> 00:54:58,984
And it shows you the gaps that are present,

698
00:54:59,104 --> 00:55:02,524
you know, like in the education maybe that we have done.

699
00:55:02,684 --> 00:55:04,304
So we figured out like, okay,

700
00:55:04,404 --> 00:55:06,724
where do we need to put more efforts?

701
00:55:07,304 --> 00:55:11,204
How do we build more nodes or human nodes

702
00:55:11,204 --> 00:55:13,624
for that matter, or ambassadors?

703
00:55:13,944 --> 00:55:15,104
There's a lot of excitement,

704
00:55:15,104 --> 00:55:17,204
but then how do we manage that?

705
00:55:17,684 --> 00:55:20,064
Because you have everyone.

706
00:55:20,064 --> 00:55:25,804
The pressure sometimes is you have everyone now wanting like, hey, these are the car wash guys.

707
00:55:26,364 --> 00:55:26,984
You know what?

708
00:55:27,064 --> 00:55:29,144
We want this session of education.

709
00:55:29,864 --> 00:55:30,604
We want this.

710
00:55:30,704 --> 00:55:32,184
And you have to plan that.

711
00:55:32,564 --> 00:55:36,424
And sometimes you are limited on the sources because maybe you depend on Trezor.

712
00:55:37,004 --> 00:55:40,064
But they have organized themselves already into a group.

713
00:55:40,404 --> 00:55:44,844
So you need a few sets to go and onboard them, show them this is how it works.

714
00:55:45,204 --> 00:55:48,304
So you might be pushing that, but then it becomes a constant pressure.

715
00:55:48,304 --> 00:55:53,684
There are times I wake up and I have like 20 missed calls from one guy, you know.

716
00:55:54,524 --> 00:55:55,884
But it's all good calls.

717
00:55:56,024 --> 00:56:00,104
He's like, look, we want to have this session.

718
00:56:00,304 --> 00:56:01,744
We want to have this session.

719
00:56:02,404 --> 00:56:06,124
You know, those are things like, you know, that happen.

720
00:56:06,824 --> 00:56:10,844
They are very enthusiastic young people who are building on top.

721
00:56:10,964 --> 00:56:12,904
We have this lady, she's called Susanna.

722
00:56:13,384 --> 00:56:16,644
She's building something called Sats for Safari.

723
00:56:16,644 --> 00:56:22,884
she's so passionate into bitcoin she's not from the immediate village that we are working on

724
00:56:22,884 --> 00:56:28,004
but she's been coming to the village to learn she's been coming to my place to learn

725
00:56:28,004 --> 00:56:34,484
and she's like okay i'm building a website connect me with brindon who is doing gorilla

726
00:56:34,484 --> 00:56:40,464
sets you know connect me with this person who is doing this so there is that energy and then

727
00:56:40,464 --> 00:56:48,024
it scales even across where you will have now like we are having to do like more of a mentorship role

728
00:56:48,024 --> 00:56:56,924
now not just along Kibera but this has broadened now into so many other places in Kenya where

729
00:56:56,924 --> 00:57:02,424
people are looking up to you can you come visit can you come see us so there's that constant

730
00:57:02,424 --> 00:57:04,584
pressure. And then now with

731
00:57:04,584 --> 00:57:06,604
Hermann and

732
00:57:06,604 --> 00:57:08,504
CBAF, for those who don't know,

733
00:57:08,564 --> 00:57:10,024
CBAF is like

734
00:57:10,024 --> 00:57:12,224
Circular Bitcoin African Fund

735
00:57:12,224 --> 00:57:14,364
because we help Hermann with

736
00:57:14,364 --> 00:57:16,504
managing some of those 43

737
00:57:16,504 --> 00:57:18,104
projects across Africa.

738
00:57:18,424 --> 00:57:20,384
Just so people know too, Hermann is

739
00:57:20,384 --> 00:57:22,584
the founder of the Bitcoin Akazi program,

740
00:57:22,584 --> 00:57:23,484
one of the people that

741
00:57:23,484 --> 00:57:25,544
runs that program.

742
00:57:26,284 --> 00:57:28,504
Yes. So there are projects that we are

743
00:57:28,504 --> 00:57:30,724
helping that have been supported

744
00:57:30,724 --> 00:57:31,764
by Bitcoin Beach.

745
00:57:31,764 --> 00:57:37,684
sort of peer-to-peer learning, facilitating engagement and all that.

746
00:57:37,924 --> 00:57:43,164
So you find now these roles sort of like scale to the whole continental level.

747
00:57:43,504 --> 00:57:48,784
And that can be really, really like, you know, taxing as well.

748
00:57:48,784 --> 00:57:52,304
And they can take like, you know, a lot of time.

749
00:57:52,704 --> 00:57:58,064
But back to communal challenges, it's mainly issues to deal with.

750
00:57:58,064 --> 00:58:06,584
it was infrastructure where now we are working our biggest issue was internet reliable internet

751
00:58:06,584 --> 00:58:13,584
can I say reliable internet because we have a lot of internet hotspots but reliable affordable

752
00:58:13,584 --> 00:58:21,104
internet that was an issue and even with Manchankura a lot of these guys still need to go

753
00:58:21,104 --> 00:58:27,984
online you know some of those things like we are trying to push like Nostar they need to be online

754
00:58:27,984 --> 00:58:30,344
for them to be able to access those.

755
00:58:30,824 --> 00:58:33,284
So this is an area now we are working with FEDI,

756
00:58:34,484 --> 00:58:38,884
which not only pushes the internet back end,

757
00:58:38,884 --> 00:58:44,884
but also helps to push for adoption in a sense that...

758
00:58:45,404 --> 00:58:47,484
Okay, I just want to clarify.

759
00:58:47,644 --> 00:58:50,084
You just said they're pushing for the internet on the back end.

760
00:58:50,324 --> 00:58:52,944
I don't know that everybody is totally familiar with what you're saying.

761
00:58:53,004 --> 00:58:55,844
Could you explain how FEDI is helping to push for internet?

762
00:58:55,844 --> 00:59:06,104
so satanets is a project by fedi where they're trying to promote internet access to communities

763
00:59:06,104 --> 00:59:16,804
like afribeat kibra circular economy and this internet is actually uh it's it's geared to become

764
00:59:16,804 --> 00:59:24,884
sort of like an asset or an income generating you know infrastructure for the community

765
00:59:24,884 --> 00:59:29,104
for the community as it grows, becomes independent,

766
00:59:29,644 --> 00:59:31,864
and, you know, it builds up.

767
00:59:32,084 --> 00:59:33,164
This is how it's structured.

768
00:59:33,544 --> 00:59:36,904
But the whole system itself, the goal is to push for adoption.

769
00:59:37,604 --> 00:59:40,364
So the more people have to convert their money

770
00:59:40,364 --> 00:59:46,364
to buy internet in SATs, which is more affordable,

771
00:59:47,104 --> 00:59:49,084
the more, again, they are getting these questions,

772
00:59:49,204 --> 00:59:50,664
just like the Boda Boda guys.

773
00:59:50,804 --> 00:59:54,364
Why am I having to change my money from fiat to...

774
00:59:54,364 --> 01:00:00,804
So it's the mindset issue on the back end that FEDE and Satternet is trying to address.

775
01:00:00,804 --> 01:00:09,404
But again, on the communal part, it becomes an income generating project, you know, like for the community.

776
01:00:09,524 --> 01:00:14,624
Because what eventually FEDE does, it hands over the project to the community.

777
01:00:14,624 --> 01:00:17,744
and with more subscriptions that you have,

778
01:00:17,824 --> 01:00:20,904
you are able now to generate maybe a small profit

779
01:00:20,904 --> 01:00:27,004
that will help you run your own programs and things like that.

780
01:00:27,004 --> 01:00:31,264
So it's a very well-thought-out idea

781
01:00:31,264 --> 01:00:34,024
that can help a lot of circular economies

782
01:00:34,024 --> 01:00:51,526
that are growing in Africa because one of the challenges that is existence right now is the sustainability aspect The circular economies right Yes circular economies And they need to rely less you know like on donations and things like that

783
01:00:51,526 --> 01:00:57,926
Yeah. And the other challenge, of course, is the issue to do with equipment. This is in terms of

784
01:00:57,926 --> 01:01:04,646
maybe like the waste management groups. We are looking at adding value to these groups. So how

785
01:01:04,646 --> 01:01:12,346
do we get them maybe a beller or a shredder where they can shred their waste, build their waste,

786
01:01:12,646 --> 01:01:20,686
and sell it to recyclers at a higher value. And what this will mean is they would be generating

787
01:01:20,686 --> 01:01:28,226
more resources and more income for themselves. So there is that challenge of access to equipment

788
01:01:28,226 --> 01:01:33,046
and even simple things as hand cuts where they need to push, you know.

789
01:01:33,326 --> 01:01:38,286
Those are some of the equipment and tools challenges that we are finding,

790
01:01:38,906 --> 01:01:41,866
you know, like maybe not possible.

791
01:01:42,346 --> 01:01:46,266
And the other thing that Blink has really been helping now to sort out this

792
01:01:46,266 --> 01:01:49,066
is helping people behind the scenes.

793
01:01:49,066 --> 01:01:53,906
It's unfortunate sometimes people don't see the people who are doing the hardest work.

794
01:01:54,446 --> 01:01:56,886
They only get to feel their faces like ours,

795
01:01:56,886 --> 01:02:01,666
but we have so many other young builders who are putting in the work

796
01:02:01,666 --> 01:02:05,266
and they are doing a lot to push for Bitcoin adoption.

797
01:02:05,986 --> 01:02:10,606
So what Blink is trying to do is set up a builder's program

798
01:02:10,606 --> 01:02:13,806
whereby such people can be identified

799
01:02:13,806 --> 01:02:19,166
and they are given small stipends that they can use on their own daily needs

800
01:02:19,166 --> 01:02:23,286
so that they are able to meet their daily.

801
01:02:23,286 --> 01:02:27,246
because Bitcoin doesn't pay anyone.

802
01:02:27,526 --> 01:02:29,386
Like us guys, we don't earn salaries.

803
01:02:29,986 --> 01:02:31,266
We don't earn anything.

804
01:02:31,766 --> 01:02:34,386
So it's a movement that we are building.

805
01:02:34,946 --> 01:02:37,186
But there are those guys on the ground there,

806
01:02:37,406 --> 01:02:38,866
the bishops I'm talking about.

807
01:02:39,246 --> 01:02:41,686
They can be more impactful if, let's say,

808
01:02:41,766 --> 01:02:45,286
we can give them, hey, here is $5,000.

809
01:02:46,006 --> 01:02:48,046
This is for your own personal use.

810
01:02:48,666 --> 01:02:49,926
Keep doing what you're doing.

811
01:02:49,926 --> 01:02:52,786
So that's also really going to help adoption.

812
01:02:53,286 --> 01:02:58,686
Then there's also the issue of keeping up now with the education requests that I told you about.

813
01:02:59,326 --> 01:03:04,206
And this would really help if maybe like more partners come on board.

814
01:03:05,026 --> 01:03:09,666
Not necessarily like, you know, with big budgets, but we can make this very organic.

815
01:03:09,666 --> 01:03:13,506
Because right now what we have is we actually have groups.

816
01:03:14,126 --> 01:03:22,846
And like before where we were calling people to come for Bitcoin meetups, now we have organized groups requesting us to go for meetups.

817
01:03:23,286 --> 01:03:36,206
So you want, when you go to these meetups, maybe you have some small sets where you can onboard people, show them how it works and ask them to use them, you know, like around the circular economies.

818
01:03:36,206 --> 01:03:41,166
So those small things would really add value, like, you know, into some of these issues.

819
01:03:41,866 --> 01:03:47,206
And there is still also a challenge of dealing with skeptics.

820
01:03:47,326 --> 01:03:50,906
It's not our problem, but it is a good challenge.

821
01:03:51,846 --> 01:03:53,166
And we love challenges.

822
01:03:53,286 --> 01:03:58,526
in Afibit Kibera, whereby you find a wife is a maximalist,

823
01:03:58,646 --> 01:04:02,146
but you don't want to break anyone's home, you know?

824
01:04:02,606 --> 01:04:04,286
Don't want to break anyone's home.

825
01:04:05,026 --> 01:04:08,526
So how do you access the husband?

826
01:04:09,186 --> 01:04:12,346
Now this is where thinking outside the box comes in.

827
01:04:12,846 --> 01:04:14,266
What does your husband do?

828
01:04:14,446 --> 01:04:17,126
Oh, he does this and this kind of work, okay?

829
01:04:18,146 --> 01:04:20,666
And I've done this with some young girls

830
01:04:20,666 --> 01:04:25,366
because these young guys are very passionate about Bitcoin.

831
01:04:25,586 --> 01:04:27,146
They wanted to learn sessions.

832
01:04:27,786 --> 01:04:30,106
And their dad is like, Bitcoin is a scam.

833
01:04:30,206 --> 01:04:31,866
So I was like, what does your dad do?

834
01:04:32,486 --> 01:04:33,986
My dad is an electrician.

835
01:04:33,986 --> 01:04:36,486
So I started giving him electrical jobs.

836
01:04:36,846 --> 01:04:38,646
And by the fifth session, he was like,

837
01:04:39,006 --> 01:04:41,926
so what is this Bitcoin thing that Frida tells me about?

838
01:04:42,666 --> 01:04:48,426
So it needs patience, but you've got to have to do more of those things.

839
01:04:48,426 --> 01:04:54,046
And once you get one of those guys, then the impact is 10x.

840
01:04:54,366 --> 01:04:57,866
So we've been on a campaign to target.

841
01:04:58,366 --> 01:05:03,906
A target maybe is the wrong word, but to approach the biggest skeptics.

842
01:05:04,106 --> 01:05:10,366
For our own sake, it helps us understand what are their fears, what are their worries.

843
01:05:10,706 --> 01:05:13,246
And that helps us also design the program.

844
01:05:13,246 --> 01:05:19,666
if someone wants to scale we can have a playbook and tell them like hey look this is how you'll go

845
01:05:19,666 --> 01:05:27,666
about this issue so the challenges we are using them as a personal you know tool for improvement

846
01:05:27,666 --> 01:05:34,406
or constantly learning yeah i love that that's amazing i want to quickly just rewind back to

847
01:05:34,406 --> 01:05:38,086
satanet that what feri is doing a little bit could you just talk a little bit technically

848
01:05:38,086 --> 01:05:42,046
about how that works i think this is really interesting i've spoken with obi about it

849
01:05:42,046 --> 01:05:48,226
directly as well but this is this is a very new concept so technically so where is the internet

850
01:05:48,226 --> 01:05:52,426
originally coming from how are people paying for that and then how could you just dive into some of

851
01:05:52,426 --> 01:05:56,266
the details about how it eventually helps the community you gave a little bit of an overview

852
01:05:56,266 --> 01:06:03,586
but i just wanted to try to clarify for listeners so suddenly it is it's coming from starlink

853
01:06:03,586 --> 01:06:12,966
but then there's a backend software and for this software it helps like you know multiple users

854
01:06:12,966 --> 01:06:22,146
access it only via the lightning network and this is in the faddy app for now it's in the faddy app

855
01:06:22,146 --> 01:06:29,886
and they access this by buying you know uh sats so you buy sats in your wallet

856
01:06:29,886 --> 01:06:34,746
and then you are able to activate your Saturn 8 package.

857
01:06:34,886 --> 01:06:37,986
There is a one-day package, 24 hours.

858
01:06:38,466 --> 01:06:41,886
There is a one-week package for seven days.

859
01:06:42,526 --> 01:06:47,946
And how this works is once you pay, your package is activated

860
01:06:47,946 --> 01:06:54,666
and you are able to access it within the locality or the range that the Saturn 8 works.

861
01:06:54,666 --> 01:06:58,186
It's not, you know, out of Kibira or anywhere else.

862
01:06:58,186 --> 01:07:02,426
No, it's specifically like the radius of the circular economy for now.

863
01:07:02,766 --> 01:07:05,786
And it's still very much in the early stages.

864
01:07:06,066 --> 01:07:07,766
So we are learning a lot of things.

865
01:07:07,946 --> 01:07:14,866
Yesterday, we were actually with Obi on the ground, learning about some of the gaps that are existing.

866
01:07:15,486 --> 01:07:20,986
But the whole thing is also envisioned to be an income generator for a circular economy

867
01:07:20,986 --> 01:07:28,166
in a sense that as you gain more users and more people get to start using Saturnet,

868
01:07:28,186 --> 01:07:33,826
Of course, we have to make it reliable. We have to make it fast. We have to make it affordable.

869
01:07:34,966 --> 01:07:45,026
We envision a situation whereby it can sort of become a tool that will also be injecting some money like, you know, for Afribit.

870
01:07:45,026 --> 01:08:04,326
And we don't have to rely on donations or we can rely less on donations and use some of that for our own operational costs and maybe get a few people like the activators or the educators, get some stipends for their efforts and push the movement forward.

871
01:08:04,326 --> 01:08:10,446
So it's something that's going to be very, very sustainable once it rolls out and it works out.

872
01:08:10,666 --> 01:08:21,826
So we have this beautiful challenge of making sure it works and succeeds in Kibra so that it can be scaled into other places.

873
01:08:21,826 --> 01:08:31,386
But it is basically Starlink with a back end of Saturnit whereby it can be broadcasted now to as many users as possible.

874
01:08:31,386 --> 01:08:36,346
who are within the locality, but you only get to access it

875
01:08:36,346 --> 01:08:39,246
if you pay, you know, using SATs.

876
01:08:39,246 --> 01:08:45,346
And it is much cheaper than the other available internet solutions.

877
01:08:46,266 --> 01:08:49,406
And we also want it to be much faster

878
01:08:49,406 --> 01:08:51,706
or the connectivity to be much faster.

879
01:08:52,046 --> 01:08:59,826
And it is not about, like, also the issue of how, you know,

880
01:08:59,826 --> 01:09:05,526
like maybe it will sustain but how the internet will be used because some of the guys right now

881
01:09:05,526 --> 01:09:12,226
are starting to do content creation for their shops like i know one guy called billy who has a store

882
01:09:12,226 --> 01:09:20,306
he's a bitcoiner and he goes on tiktok live and he's using that internet you know like you know

883
01:09:20,306 --> 01:09:27,226
to spread the word and we know the other people who do like remote jobs we are hoping they can

884
01:09:27,226 --> 01:09:34,286
also be able to use that again we want it to add value to the community in a way that it can impact

885
01:09:34,286 --> 01:09:40,006
their lives positively it's not just for scanning and playing with bitcoin no it's much more than

886
01:09:40,006 --> 01:09:46,186
that and that is the whole vision yeah making it success and the basic tool like you know that

887
01:09:46,186 --> 01:09:53,266
people can utilize um yeah again speaks to the holistic nature of this we're trying to empower

888
01:09:53,266 --> 01:09:58,546
people or Afrobit is trying to empower people on many different levels. We talked about challenges,

889
01:09:58,906 --> 01:10:05,126
but before we wrap up here, I was hoping maybe you could highlight a few of what you consider to be

890
01:10:05,126 --> 01:10:10,886
the biggest victories of the organization. I think a lot of times we talk about what's difficult and

891
01:10:10,886 --> 01:10:16,526
what we're trying to do and this and that. And sometimes we don't reflect enough on how much

892
01:10:16,526 --> 01:10:21,866
success we've had in whatever we're doing. So when it comes to what you're most proud of with what

893
01:10:21,866 --> 01:10:26,426
you've accomplished with Afribit, with what the Afribit team has accomplished? What are some of

894
01:10:26,426 --> 01:10:33,026
the first things that come to mind? I think the first thing that comes to mind is the daily stories

895
01:10:33,026 --> 01:10:43,626
that you will meet someone in the streets. And for me, I would just pick this young artist by the

896
01:10:43,626 --> 01:10:52,106
name on Pax. He's the one who did a video, like, you know, educating his peers about the Bitcoin

897
01:10:52,106 --> 01:10:59,086
adoption and stuff. This young man was very curious. He was a big skeptic and he was referred

898
01:10:59,086 --> 01:11:06,046
by his friends to come for one of the treasure academy classes that we had. And that was sort of

899
01:11:06,046 --> 01:11:13,406
like the pill that got him, you know, interested in this. And it's interesting because those treasure

900
01:11:13,406 --> 01:11:19,766
sessions have really had some very magical influence in building a foundation of interest

901
01:11:19,766 --> 01:11:25,806
in the community and people actually like following up Bitcoin journey in their own ways.

902
01:11:26,226 --> 01:11:32,506
So what happened to Pax was he attended these sessions. Then we had one-on-one more sessions

903
01:11:32,506 --> 01:11:38,426
with him. He would come to my place, like five sessions. And he was like, look, I'm going to make

904
01:11:38,426 --> 01:11:45,406
a song that I'm going to use, you know, like to get other young people get interested into Bitcoin

905
01:11:45,406 --> 01:11:56,086
and watch this piece. And he did the song, released it with his local producer. And it was a hit

906
01:11:56,086 --> 01:12:03,566
locally that got so many other young people like, you know, curious. They created their own group.

907
01:12:03,566 --> 01:12:08,266
and he was like, he started educating those guys now

908
01:12:08,266 --> 01:12:11,066
on his own terms, in their own language again,

909
01:12:11,526 --> 01:12:13,286
on how they could apply their knowledge.

910
01:12:13,406 --> 01:12:15,286
And he's very big on saving.

911
01:12:15,446 --> 01:12:18,686
He's those guys who, before he would buy his certs

912
01:12:18,686 --> 01:12:20,926
and even delete his Blink wallet

913
01:12:20,926 --> 01:12:26,246
because he had not gone to the other on-chain wallets

914
01:12:26,246 --> 01:12:27,926
because the fees were very high.

915
01:12:28,426 --> 01:12:31,626
But he was like, look, he would delete his wallet,

916
01:12:31,626 --> 01:12:34,626
but he has his address so he just sends his certs there.

917
01:12:34,986 --> 01:12:36,926
He's looking at saving and he was like,

918
01:12:37,046 --> 01:12:40,366
dude, when I get to your age, I want to retire.

919
01:12:40,526 --> 01:12:43,086
We always say I can't save, I can't save,

920
01:12:43,186 --> 01:12:47,626
but the amount of money I make, even at my age right now,

921
01:12:48,146 --> 01:12:51,446
I can take this as a challenge to discipline myself

922
01:12:51,446 --> 01:12:54,086
and make sure I commit to save.

923
01:12:54,646 --> 01:12:57,766
And he's been very constant on that.

924
01:12:57,766 --> 01:13:07,466
another example is a session we held let's say after six months of whatever was happening in the

925
01:13:07,466 --> 01:13:15,106
community so we had a meetup and we were like hey look if there's anyone here with

926
01:13:15,106 --> 01:13:23,706
who has their wallet and they still have sets worth 500 shillings and above come here we will

927
01:13:23,706 --> 01:13:31,626
doubled and then we had like 30 people you know like standing and the room was had only like 40

928
01:13:31,626 --> 01:13:36,946
people because we knew like uh no maybe these guys are not saving you know something like that

929
01:13:36,946 --> 01:13:43,986
and all these guys were standing up and they are very proudly yes as much as we can say it's a

930
01:13:43,986 --> 01:13:50,446
secret not to show your balance but they were very proud of it like you know so we both manchankura

931
01:13:50,446 --> 01:13:58,406
both you know like blink guys and that was really really like you know uh exciting to see

932
01:13:58,406 --> 01:14:05,726
and the other beautiful moment there are so many i could take many and um is now the other young

933
01:14:05,726 --> 01:14:13,526
guys who sort of started developing tools i'm talking about eddie and another guy called martin

934
01:14:13,526 --> 01:14:19,546
who are looking into making low cost, like, you know, point of sales.

935
01:14:20,806 --> 01:14:24,546
One of the things that we are working on right now with them is

936
01:14:24,546 --> 01:14:27,606
the pool table is very big in Kibra.

937
01:14:28,026 --> 01:14:30,406
And we were like, hey, a lot of guys play pool.

938
01:14:30,846 --> 01:14:36,546
How do we get to build a pool table that guys can pay with lightning invoice?

939
01:14:36,546 --> 01:14:39,446
And they are already working on that, you know.

940
01:14:39,806 --> 01:14:41,666
They've figured everything out.

941
01:14:41,666 --> 01:14:46,106
And the solutions are so local and so grassroots,

942
01:14:46,466 --> 01:14:49,126
and you find there are people who are building on top,

943
01:14:49,266 --> 01:14:50,526
who are building on top.

944
01:14:50,526 --> 01:14:54,706
So our role now comes back now like into guidance

945
01:14:54,706 --> 01:14:59,666
and telling people like, okay, this is fine.

946
01:14:59,826 --> 01:15:01,546
You will learn a few lessons here.

947
01:15:02,246 --> 01:15:03,066
Here is Frank.

948
01:15:03,166 --> 01:15:05,426
He can guide you on writing articles.

949
01:15:06,106 --> 01:15:08,366
Here is, you know, maybe Haman.

950
01:15:08,506 --> 01:15:10,946
He can give you some insights on this and this.

951
01:15:10,946 --> 01:15:18,686
So that networking effect, and it's breaking the barriers also in terms of self-confidence.

952
01:15:19,586 --> 01:15:22,646
And Mitch was telling me he feels very confident now.

953
01:15:23,246 --> 01:15:31,986
He can actually, being in that Bitcoin space has actually helped him as a person to develop, you know, like personally.

954
01:15:31,986 --> 01:15:40,306
And we are getting a lot of that feedback from people who now feel they are more empowered that they have this knowledge.

955
01:15:40,866 --> 01:15:45,186
And there's a lady who is a merchant who was telling me she never knew what money was.

956
01:15:45,286 --> 01:15:47,006
Now she's really understanding money.

957
01:15:47,686 --> 01:15:57,586
So it was interesting because she was like, look, if I hold this hundred shillings in my hand, I cannot see its graph, like, you know, dropping.

958
01:15:58,006 --> 01:16:00,246
I cannot see its graph dropping.

959
01:16:00,246 --> 01:16:04,246
and like Bitcoin where like we are comparing with this.

960
01:16:04,446 --> 01:16:06,086
So for me, that was really interesting

961
01:16:06,086 --> 01:16:08,986
to come from what you would call, you know,

962
01:16:08,986 --> 01:16:10,666
such an ordinary person

963
01:16:10,666 --> 01:16:15,906
and people are not hyped or excited about the graph.

964
01:16:15,986 --> 01:16:17,706
They're not talking about the graph.

965
01:16:17,826 --> 01:16:20,146
They're not talking about charts

966
01:16:20,146 --> 01:16:23,506
or maybe being billionaires and stuff.

967
01:16:23,506 --> 01:16:26,446
They are looking at a rail where like, you know,

968
01:16:26,446 --> 01:16:32,186
It means, oh, Bitcoin, lightning to lightning, zero transaction fees.

969
01:16:32,446 --> 01:16:34,066
For me, it's a win, you know?

970
01:16:35,006 --> 01:16:41,126
Those kind of things are really, really like, you know, what makes us going and inspire us.

971
01:16:41,286 --> 01:16:50,446
And seeing people now build their own other empowerment projects and using Bitcoin as a tool to empower the people.

972
01:16:51,646 --> 01:16:51,826
Yeah.

973
01:16:52,906 --> 01:16:54,926
You have tears in my eyes, Ronnie.

974
01:16:54,926 --> 01:16:59,126
and I have nothing but admiration for what you do.

975
01:16:59,266 --> 01:17:01,146
And it's funny, as I'm listening to this,

976
01:17:01,886 --> 01:17:03,786
I recently stepped down from my job,

977
01:17:04,866 --> 01:17:06,226
what I was doing in the White House,

978
01:17:06,226 --> 01:17:10,446
and I had this feeling of, you know,

979
01:17:10,486 --> 01:17:12,726
I'd be there and I'm giving coverage to this person

980
01:17:12,726 --> 01:17:14,366
that gets all the coverage in the whole world,

981
01:17:14,486 --> 01:17:15,206
Donald Trump, right?

982
01:17:15,226 --> 01:17:17,246
He's constantly on TV and everything else.

983
01:17:17,546 --> 01:17:19,846
And while I'm there in all these moments,

984
01:17:19,846 --> 01:17:21,506
I'm just thinking to myself, I'm like,

985
01:17:21,806 --> 01:17:23,786
this is the last person who needs my attention.

986
01:17:23,786 --> 01:17:32,786
There are so many people out there who have these beautiful stories who are doing amazing work. And just this conversation alone, having it with you reminded me of why I chose to step away from that.

987
01:17:32,786 --> 01:17:57,766
So I want to thank you for the inspiration that you've been, not only to the people in Kibara, but in my life for making me remember why I got into Bitcoin, why Bitcoin is important, and also why Bitcoin itself, by itself, in and of itself, is not the solution, but why it's a catalyst that can change communities if we continue to work together, educate one another, support one another, emotionally support one another.

988
01:17:57,766 --> 01:18:02,846
and what you're doing is something that I hope this conversation between us continues.

989
01:18:03,426 --> 01:18:06,886
I hope to be back to see you in Kibbera, hopefully in the near future.

990
01:18:07,666 --> 01:18:10,786
And yeah, the world, Africa will remember you.

991
01:18:10,866 --> 01:18:13,086
The world will remember you for the work that you've done.

992
01:18:13,366 --> 01:18:18,846
And more than anything, just immediately forget about history books, the people there.

993
01:18:18,846 --> 01:18:23,426
I know you've had a tremendous impact on them and that impact will only ripple and become

994
01:18:23,426 --> 01:18:24,686
exponential over time.

995
01:18:24,686 --> 01:18:27,806
So thank you from the bottom of my heart for what you do.

996
01:18:28,206 --> 01:18:31,766
And thank you for being my second guest here at the reboot of the podcast.

997
01:18:33,486 --> 01:18:36,386
Wow. Thank you so much, Frank, for your kind words.

998
01:18:36,566 --> 01:18:39,046
You do a lot of amazing work.

999
01:18:39,266 --> 01:18:44,266
We are very proud of you and we cannot wait to have you back here again.

1000
01:18:45,406 --> 01:18:50,226
It's, you know, platforms like this that will get the message home.

1001
01:18:50,226 --> 01:19:04,826
It's platforms like yours and people like you who would give that person who is yearning and eager to learn and travel to our worlds, be able to experience this.

1002
01:19:05,226 --> 01:19:12,646
And you having been on the ground and having kept constant touch with us, we truly appreciate that.

1003
01:19:12,826 --> 01:19:14,166
And we are super grateful.

1004
01:19:14,826 --> 01:19:18,286
And yeah, thank you for the amazing work that you're doing, man.

1005
01:19:19,066 --> 01:19:19,726
Thank you.

1006
01:19:19,726 --> 01:19:20,906
It means a lot coming from you, Ronnie.

1007
01:19:21,026 --> 01:19:21,626
Appreciate it.

1008
01:19:21,686 --> 01:19:25,506
We will keep this conversation going to everybody out there listening.

1009
01:19:25,746 --> 01:19:29,226
If you're inspired, as Ronnie just said, consider that trip to Kenya.

1010
01:19:29,406 --> 01:19:31,726
Consider that trip to Kyivara to see it for yourself.

1011
01:19:32,506 --> 01:19:35,926
Thank you, you know, on behalf of the podcast for listening.

1012
01:19:35,926 --> 01:19:40,306
And then we will have Ronnie back on hopefully in the near future to get an update on what's happening.

1013
01:19:40,786 --> 01:19:45,966
But in the meantime, we'll be back in about a week or so with Umiti Undawar,

1014
01:19:45,966 --> 01:19:49,486
who was the first female Bitcoin core contributor

1015
01:19:49,486 --> 01:19:51,766
or the first person who identified as a female

1016
01:19:51,766 --> 01:19:52,786
or came out as a female.

1017
01:19:53,346 --> 01:19:55,486
We'll be talking about Bitcoin and mental health

1018
01:19:55,486 --> 01:19:56,426
next time we do this.

1019
01:19:56,526 --> 01:19:59,166
But anyway, Ronnie, thank you so much for being on.

1020
01:19:59,586 --> 01:20:00,786
And we will talk soon, my friend.

1021
01:20:00,906 --> 01:20:01,766
Take it easy, everybody.

1022
01:20:02,486 --> 01:20:03,986
Pretty remarkable stuff, no?

1023
01:20:04,106 --> 01:20:05,426
As I mentioned at the beginning,

1024
01:20:06,006 --> 01:20:07,546
Ronnie is an absolute legend.

1025
01:20:07,786 --> 01:20:10,006
The whole team at AfribitKeyBetter,

1026
01:20:10,126 --> 01:20:11,406
they're all absolute legends.

1027
01:20:11,686 --> 01:20:13,186
And the work that they're doing on the ground there

1028
01:20:13,186 --> 01:20:14,326
is truly inspiring.

1029
01:20:14,326 --> 01:20:17,006
be sure to go on to socials

1030
01:20:17,006 --> 01:20:18,306
I believe they're on Instagram

1031
01:20:18,306 --> 01:20:20,706
X Noster go check out

1032
01:20:20,706 --> 01:20:22,806
what they're doing go follow

1033
01:20:22,806 --> 01:20:23,726
what they're doing

1034
01:20:23,726 --> 01:20:26,906
any support you could give them send them a zap

1035
01:20:26,906 --> 01:20:28,726
on Noster would sure

1036
01:20:28,726 --> 01:20:31,106
help amplify them retweet

1037
01:20:31,106 --> 01:20:33,066
all that good stuff make sure to do that

1038
01:20:33,066 --> 01:20:34,966
and also if you wouldn't mind please like

1039
01:20:34,966 --> 01:20:36,886
and subscribe to the podcast on whatever

1040
01:20:36,886 --> 01:20:38,746
platform you're listening or watching on

1041
01:20:38,746 --> 01:20:40,686
we would sincerely appreciate it

1042
01:20:40,686 --> 01:20:42,786
and we thank you for your time and attention and we'll be back

1043
01:20:42,786 --> 01:20:44,266
next week take it easy everybody

1044
01:20:44,406 --> 01:20:44,886
Thank you.

1045
01:20:48,946 --> 01:20:50,106
Next question for 2019.