1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,120
Hello and welcome to the Healthy Bit podcast. This podcast is designed to talk about all the

2
00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:17,300
things that we can do to stack healthy habits to hopefully make a better, healthier life for

3
00:00:17,300 --> 00:00:22,400
ourselves so that in the future you'll thank us for it. So I'm Hayley Jarville, I'm a specialist

4
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:28,280
physiotherapist and I want to welcome my co-host Henry Herbert. Hello, thank you Hayley. Yeah,

5
00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:37,540
Just a quick shameless plug from me, just to say, you know, if you enjoy listening to The Healthy Bit, please do leave us a comment or like it or share it with your friends.

6
00:00:37,540 --> 00:00:42,960
It really helps our small fledgling project to spread its wings and fly.

7
00:00:43,140 --> 00:00:51,440
Also to say that we're now exclusively launching on Fountain, which is a podcasting app, but you can listen on Spotify, Apple and all the other ones.

8
00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,160
I hope you enjoy this episode of The Healthy Bit.

9
00:00:54,380 --> 00:00:57,160
And we have some very exciting things to talk about today.

10
00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:01,080
So Henry is amazing as a baker and a chef

11
00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:08,400
And he is going to tell us all about how we can make easy, easy, foolproof bread at home

12
00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:15,460
And he's going to tell us lots of top tips on how we can make our bread as delicious as he makes it in his lovely bakery

13
00:01:15,460 --> 00:01:20,620
So first of all, Henry, just tell us a little bit about your background and about your bakery

14
00:01:20,620 --> 00:01:22,020
Yeah, so thank you Hayley

15
00:01:22,020 --> 00:01:27,660
So I'm a fifth generation baker, baking in the jeans, if you will.

16
00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,060
There's quite often literally flour in my trousers.

17
00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:36,120
Yeah, so I'm part of a family business, Hobbs House Bakery in the Cotswold in the southwest of England.

18
00:01:36,340 --> 00:01:39,600
We've been going for over 100 years, so a whole of baking heritage.

19
00:01:39,900 --> 00:01:45,880
And I work there with my brother and my uncle, my sister-in-law, my father, and lots of other members.

20
00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:50,660
artisan bread that we sell through our own shops, but also to lots of wholesale customers,

21
00:01:50,820 --> 00:01:53,560
whether that's farm shops or pubs, et cetera.

22
00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,340
So we send to a whole wide range of customers.

23
00:01:57,380 --> 00:02:01,800
And I guess for me, I run a bakery, but I also make bread at home, which might seem like

24
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:03,280
a slightly odd thing to do.

25
00:02:03,380 --> 00:02:07,600
But actually, I get just a real pleasure from baking at home.

26
00:02:08,060 --> 00:02:09,980
And I guess it helps me feel connected.

27
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:11,220
My day job is sales.

28
00:02:11,220 --> 00:02:15,860
So actually, I'm mostly in an office answering emails or making phone calls, et cetera, looking

29
00:02:15,860 --> 00:02:21,120
it spreadsheet so actually it's nice to you know not just do it in theory but do it in practice

30
00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:26,500
so baking at home actually i find a really enjoyable thing and um if you're not privileged

31
00:02:26,500 --> 00:02:31,420
to work for a bakery that makes really good quality products and you're you know buying from

32
00:02:31,420 --> 00:02:35,440
the supermarket or you you know you don't have a huge amount of options actually home baking is a

33
00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:41,860
can be a great solution to get proper bread uh into your weekly diet definitely definitely and i

34
00:02:41,860 --> 00:02:47,020
think people think that they need to leave bread out of their diet because they think that that's

35
00:02:47,020 --> 00:02:52,560
going to be a healthier choice and actually that's sort of incorrect really and um and i think you'll

36
00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:58,600
probably have lots to say on this as well henry but people tend to build up um a lot of intolerances

37
00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:05,280
or even allergens to or allergic reactions sometimes to the body's reactions of like sort

38
00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:11,440
of presenting as if they're allergic to it um because of the some of the ingredients or things

39
00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:16,700
that they've used inside supermarket breads that can sometimes kind of feel less healthy as an

40
00:03:16,700 --> 00:03:21,800
option making making things from home like you say with the ingredients that you know you've got in

41
00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:27,020
front of you and actually you can make bread really quite healthy can't you definitely so i think the

42
00:03:27,020 --> 00:03:33,880
first point you made about uh people um the bread you know can be part of a healthy and a varied diet

43
00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:39,640
i know i've got kids and actually often you know they come back from football or rugby or whatever

44
00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,360
or back from school and they're just hungry and they need something to eat.

45
00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,300
And often bread is that kind of easy go-to because, you know,

46
00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,560
it's a piece of toast or a quick sandwich or, you know,

47
00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:48,900
something to dip into some soup.

48
00:03:49,180 --> 00:03:50,820
You know, bread is a great filler for us.

49
00:03:51,260 --> 00:03:55,920
Unfortunately, bread has been probably one of the worst products

50
00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,600
in terms of we've kind of screwed around with it

51
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,360
and we've tried to make it do lots of things that bread shouldn't do

52
00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,220
and we've tried to make it as cheap as possible.

53
00:04:04,380 --> 00:04:06,200
So I guess it is that kind of, you know,

54
00:04:06,220 --> 00:04:08,040
it makes up a big part of people's diets.

55
00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,980
and really the bread that you, well, not all of it,

56
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,020
but a lot of the bread you buy in the supermarket is,

57
00:04:13,580 --> 00:04:15,440
I think we'll look back in history and be like,

58
00:04:15,700 --> 00:04:17,480
this wasn't a good idea.

59
00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,620
You know, we've changed the nature of it.

60
00:04:19,620 --> 00:04:23,220
We've tried to make it as cheap as possible

61
00:04:23,220 --> 00:04:25,920
and, you know, last as long as possible.

62
00:04:26,060 --> 00:04:28,780
In doing so, we've had to degrade the quality of the ingredients.

63
00:04:29,100 --> 00:04:31,360
We've rushed the process so that you're no longer getting

64
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:32,360
that full fermentation.

65
00:04:32,740 --> 00:04:35,880
And also we're putting in a load of UPFs and, you know,

66
00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:40,320
stabilizers and emulsifiers and e-numbers and all sorts of other ingredients actually just

67
00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:45,740
down to eating your diet you know i don't think so actually making bread at home uh can put you

68
00:04:45,740 --> 00:04:50,820
back into back in control and yes you can make it as complicated as you want but actually yeah

69
00:04:50,820 --> 00:04:55,260
it's not as difficult it does require a little bit of planning but actually if you're looking to

70
00:04:55,260 --> 00:05:01,400
um you know really kind of strip out um what you're eating and go back to um you know ingredients

71
00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:02,600
that you're in control of,

72
00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:04,700
making a home can be done

73
00:05:04,700 --> 00:05:05,360
and it's possible.

74
00:05:05,620 --> 00:05:06,640
I think for me,

75
00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:08,120
it's about thinking about

76
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:09,220
what are your requirements

77
00:05:09,220 --> 00:05:10,020
and what do you need?

78
00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:11,960
For me, when I'm baking,

79
00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:13,260
I'm often, you know,

80
00:05:13,300 --> 00:05:14,260
I'm baking on the weekend.

81
00:05:14,580 --> 00:05:15,280
You know, maybe we're going

82
00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:16,240
to Radson's house

83
00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:17,420
and we've got some people coming over

84
00:05:17,420 --> 00:05:18,840
and I want a really, you know,

85
00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:20,180
lovely kind of artisan,

86
00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,860
crusty, bubbly sourdough,

87
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:23,980
something that's great

88
00:05:23,980 --> 00:05:24,920
in the centre of the table

89
00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,000
and it's, you know,

90
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,120
make the house full of wonderful smells.

91
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:31,880
But it does require quite a lot of effort.

92
00:05:32,420 --> 00:05:36,340
And it's probably not the best place to start.

93
00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,940
You know, I've grown up working for a bakery to make quite a lot of bread in my life.

94
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,000
But if you've never really done it before, it's probably the worst places.

95
00:05:43,220 --> 00:05:48,420
It's probably the equivalent of having never run and then deciding to do a marathon on day one.

96
00:05:48,660 --> 00:05:50,440
Actually, you need to build up to that marathon.

97
00:05:50,860 --> 00:05:55,580
So actually, there's a far simpler way to get into bread making.

98
00:05:55,980 --> 00:05:56,840
And then you can work out.

99
00:05:56,840 --> 00:05:59,940
Yeah, because don't you need a starter or something for us nowadays?

100
00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,720
So you need to have something that's on the go all the time.

101
00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:12,380
So for people listening who want to kind of break away from eating supermarket bread and they know, OK, yeah, it's all about organic and trying to eat as good as possible.

102
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,660
Where would you start with even just the ingredients?

103
00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,000
Is using organic flour really necessary, Henry?

104
00:06:20,180 --> 00:06:22,980
And where do we start with it or what's the easiest recipe?

105
00:06:22,980 --> 00:06:26,420
The thing we say at Hobsack's Bakery to home bakers,

106
00:06:26,420 --> 00:06:37,536
because we get a lot of people come through our either through our cookery school or they email us or they come to bakery tours they often ask us and the main one is you know what flour shop and we always say um you want to

107
00:06:37,536 --> 00:06:42,575
find a good quality flower and you want to stick with it so don't um don't shop around and you know

108
00:06:42,575 --> 00:06:47,376
buy some from mozzers and then a little bit from waitrose and tescos and buy different brands

109
00:06:47,376 --> 00:06:52,575
because you could call that being a bit of a flower floozy but the issue with that is that all white

110
00:06:52,575 --> 00:06:57,455
flour quite often looks the same and it's only when you're using it do you then start to feel

111
00:06:57,455 --> 00:07:02,495
that it reacts quite differently. Now flour makes up the main ingredient in bread so if you're

112
00:07:02,495 --> 00:07:08,096
constantly changing the flour source you're going to have really varying results. Now if you're

113
00:07:08,096 --> 00:07:11,995
kind of an amateur and you're new to it you could get put off quite quickly. You might make a

114
00:07:11,995 --> 00:07:16,196
beautiful loaf and then two weeks later you go again with a different flour and you think it's

115
00:07:16,196 --> 00:07:19,955
going to act the same and it's completely different and you get you know these four loaves and then

116
00:07:19,955 --> 00:07:24,236
you feel disappointed and it might put you off so i would say find a good flan stick with it now

117
00:07:24,236 --> 00:07:28,316
you know if you're going to the supermarket for me personally i would always would look for organic

118
00:07:28,316 --> 00:07:33,955
just because i prefer to you know buy stuff that you know hasn't got pesticides etc on it and

119
00:07:33,955 --> 00:07:38,916
actually the difference in price from organic to conventional is not so much but really if you if

120
00:07:38,916 --> 00:07:42,635
you're going to get seriously into bread making you're going to save your bacon bread once a week

121
00:07:42,635 --> 00:07:46,816
actually probably the best thing you can do is buy yourself a 16 kilo sack so there's plenty of good

122
00:07:46,816 --> 00:07:51,836
mills out there so we use uh shipton mill but there's lots of others um there's mac use a great

123
00:07:51,836 --> 00:07:56,396
one wild farms you know plenty to that you can order online and they'll send it directly to your

124
00:07:56,396 --> 00:08:01,316
door so you get good economies of scale there so you're gonna get you know the price per kilo is

125
00:08:01,316 --> 00:08:05,675
gonna be significantly cheaper and then you've got one consistent flour that you can work with

126
00:08:05,675 --> 00:08:11,055
and experiment now when it comes to bread making you need a flour with a high protein content

127
00:08:11,055 --> 00:08:16,515
doesn't need to be super high you know so anything above kind of 11 12 percent would make perfectly

128
00:08:16,515 --> 00:08:21,256
good bread and the way you can check that is on the nutritionals on the label it'll say you know

129
00:08:21,256 --> 00:08:26,236
the calories per 100 grams it'll have the sugars and the carbohydrates and there'll be one of the

130
00:08:26,236 --> 00:08:31,995
same protein and you just see what the number is and as long as that is above say 11 you'll be able

131
00:08:31,995 --> 00:08:37,476
to make bread now if it's a plain flour it'll be more like eight percent and that's going to be

132
00:08:37,476 --> 00:08:43,056
great for making biscuits or a victoria sponge but as soon as you try and make bread with it it's

133
00:08:43,056 --> 00:08:50,755
It's not going to have the protein, which is required because when you add water, it becomes gluten.

134
00:08:50,995 --> 00:08:55,375
You get this beautiful gluten network, which is what brings bread to life.

135
00:08:55,375 --> 00:08:57,375
So just a little bit of chemistry here.

136
00:08:57,535 --> 00:09:07,015
Whether you've got a sourdough or dried yeast or fresh yeast, what happens is when the yeast starts to multiply and feed on the sugars in the flour, it starts doubling.

137
00:09:07,236 --> 00:09:09,456
So every 20 minutes, they double and double again.

138
00:09:09,915 --> 00:09:11,356
And it kicks off two things.

139
00:09:11,356 --> 00:09:13,596
alcohol, so that's why yeast is used

140
00:09:13,596 --> 00:09:15,115
for making beer or wine,

141
00:09:15,556 --> 00:09:17,436
and carbon dioxide. And now

142
00:09:17,436 --> 00:09:19,415
the carbon dioxide is what we

143
00:09:19,415 --> 00:09:21,495
need to trap within our bread, because

144
00:09:21,495 --> 00:09:23,076
as those little bubbles kind of like

145
00:09:23,076 --> 00:09:25,556
bubble up, they get caught in this gluten network

146
00:09:25,556 --> 00:09:27,336
and it's a bit like a balloon, like a

147
00:09:27,336 --> 00:09:29,375
kind of mesh, and then it kind of

148
00:09:29,375 --> 00:09:31,135
inflates and lifts up, and you end up with

149
00:09:31,135 --> 00:09:33,395
a beautiful risen loaf with

150
00:09:33,395 --> 00:09:35,216
lots of little holes all over it. And really,

151
00:09:35,375 --> 00:09:36,856
those little holes have a flavour,

152
00:09:37,135 --> 00:09:39,155
so when you bite into it, you get that lovely kind of

153
00:09:39,155 --> 00:09:40,316
flavour. And

154
00:09:40,316 --> 00:09:43,836
And whereas if you try making that with a low-gluten flour,

155
00:09:44,056 --> 00:09:46,135
sorry, a low-protein flour, you won't get that.

156
00:09:46,316 --> 00:09:49,615
The CO2 will just disappear out of the loaf

157
00:09:49,615 --> 00:09:53,196
and you'll get a very dense brink, which no one wants.

158
00:09:54,196 --> 00:09:55,035
That's amazing.

159
00:09:55,275 --> 00:09:58,915
And for somebody who regularly checks labels on foods,

160
00:09:58,915 --> 00:10:03,716
I don't think I've ever checked a flour bag for its ingredients

161
00:10:03,716 --> 00:10:05,655
or its nutritional value.

162
00:10:05,796 --> 00:10:07,076
Because like you say, you just need to think,

163
00:10:07,155 --> 00:10:08,716
right, I've got the organic flour, that's fine,

164
00:10:08,775 --> 00:10:09,515
and that's what I'm using.

165
00:10:09,515 --> 00:10:15,716
does also the age of the flour matter so if you've kept it a while and where's the best place to keep

166
00:10:15,716 --> 00:10:21,995
your flour well if you're good so if you if you've got really into bread making you might have bought

167
00:10:21,995 --> 00:10:26,415
yourself a little home mill so i've actually got mill at home um it's a bit like a kind of coffee

168
00:10:26,415 --> 00:10:30,515
grinder because grinding up grain and when you grind your own grain sorry this is this is quite

169
00:10:30,515 --> 00:10:37,015
niche you have to use the flour within a kind of two to three hour window otherwise it um a lot of

170
00:10:37,015 --> 00:10:42,035
like um enzymatic reactions kick off when you crush the flour and then the flour becomes very

171
00:10:42,035 --> 00:10:47,395
unstable by volatile so you then have to age it for about two to three weeks so when we buy flour

172
00:10:47,395 --> 00:10:51,956
from the mill it's not milled fresh they they mill it and then they store it for a couple of

173
00:10:51,956 --> 00:10:55,976
weeks and then they deliver it to the bakery and then that kind of settles down and you get a much

174
00:10:55,976 --> 00:11:01,875
more stable product but once it's milled the the shelf like i think a year i mean probably you find

175
00:11:01,875 --> 00:11:06,696
after a year maybe the weevils start moving in that's normally a good time to um get a new stack

176
00:11:06,696 --> 00:11:07,915
Yeah, yeah, no, exactly.

177
00:11:08,356 --> 00:11:11,115
So in terms of the simplest bread you can make,

178
00:11:11,356 --> 00:11:12,296
because I've seen sort of,

179
00:11:12,415 --> 00:11:14,615
you obviously see various recipes, don't you?

180
00:11:14,655 --> 00:11:16,716
Some using just the water and the salt and the sugar

181
00:11:16,716 --> 00:11:18,856
and the flour and everything and the yeast.

182
00:11:19,395 --> 00:11:21,336
And some where they're using olive oils and things.

183
00:11:21,436 --> 00:11:25,275
So what would you say is a good kind of reliable recipe

184
00:11:25,275 --> 00:11:27,535
that turns out pretty well every time

185
00:11:27,535 --> 00:11:30,176
as a simple way to get into bread meat?

186
00:11:30,415 --> 00:11:30,875
Simple way.

187
00:11:31,576 --> 00:11:33,196
For me, I always make a kilo.

188
00:11:33,495 --> 00:11:34,716
We'll start with a kilo of flour

189
00:11:34,716 --> 00:11:38,456
because it'll make you two decent sized loaves now,

190
00:11:39,115 --> 00:11:42,076
which for me, that would be enough for my family for the week.

191
00:11:42,436 --> 00:11:44,736
And yes, it'd be fresh for the, you know, fresh hamper,

192
00:11:44,796 --> 00:11:46,696
if it's the first couple of ladies and then toast the rest of it.

193
00:11:46,895 --> 00:11:49,596
Or you can freeze it if you want to keep it a little bit longer.

194
00:11:49,836 --> 00:11:53,676
So if you've got a kilo of flour, then for that, you want to add liquid.

195
00:11:53,875 --> 00:11:55,135
So water is super important.

196
00:11:55,495 --> 00:11:57,436
And it's all about hydration levels.

197
00:11:58,216 --> 00:12:04,696
For a kind of simple loaf, it'd go kind of 55 to 60 pounds.

198
00:12:04,716 --> 00:12:08,255
5% of water to the flour.

199
00:12:08,535 --> 00:12:10,816
So that's about 600 grams of water.

200
00:12:11,015 --> 00:12:12,755
So you'd weigh that, in it goes.

201
00:12:12,976 --> 00:12:16,356
Then you need about 20%, sorry, 2% salt.

202
00:12:16,676 --> 00:12:18,655
So if you've got a kilo of flour,

203
00:12:18,736 --> 00:12:20,456
then you're looking at about 20 grams of salt,

204
00:12:20,736 --> 00:12:22,135
which does seem like quite a lot.

205
00:12:22,755 --> 00:12:24,856
Unseasoned bread is really disgusting.

206
00:12:25,115 --> 00:12:26,556
Then you need some raising agent.

207
00:12:26,936 --> 00:12:29,356
At home, I would always just use dry bees.

208
00:12:29,716 --> 00:12:31,515
You can just buy the little sachets.

209
00:12:31,515 --> 00:12:33,076
You can get a quick action one

210
00:12:33,076 --> 00:12:35,236
or just the normal dry yeast.

211
00:12:35,476 --> 00:12:37,115
I always actually go for the normal dry yeast

212
00:12:37,115 --> 00:12:39,775
because it doesn't have the quick action one

213
00:12:39,775 --> 00:12:42,375
has some extra kind of funky ingredients

214
00:12:42,375 --> 00:12:43,836
that make it work a bit faster

215
00:12:43,836 --> 00:12:45,736
and I'm not in that much of a hurry.

216
00:12:46,515 --> 00:12:47,476
But just the sachets...

217
00:12:47,476 --> 00:12:52,596
They already come in the, is it 7.5 grams?

218
00:12:53,236 --> 00:12:56,635
One of those sachets will do a kilo loaf.

219
00:12:56,995 --> 00:12:58,196
You could put two in if you want.

220
00:12:58,415 --> 00:13:11,251
It not going to make a huge amount of difference but essentially a sachet is fine and you can get fresh yeast but it only lasts about a week and you can freeze it so unless you really keen and you want to you know we actually we do

221
00:13:11,251 --> 00:13:16,051
sell it at our bakery so people turn up and just buy it by the 50 grams if you're using fresh yeast

222
00:13:16,051 --> 00:13:21,911
you do double the amount of dry yeast because it's less constant so if the recipe says 10 grams of

223
00:13:21,911 --> 00:13:28,611
dry yeast use 20 grams of fresh yeast so just right um and then so once you've got your flour

224
00:13:28,611 --> 00:13:33,031
your water your salt and your yeast well then you're good to go so what you've got to do is

225
00:13:33,031 --> 00:13:38,091
you've got to mix it until all of the the wet air mixed into the into the dry and um and then you

226
00:13:38,091 --> 00:13:42,491
need to knead it so if you've got a kitchen aid you can put it on the dough hook and get it going

227
00:13:42,491 --> 00:13:46,751
for about eight minutes or so um but actually you know i'm a big fan of using my hands and

228
00:13:46,751 --> 00:13:51,831
getting a good stretch on and really what you're trying to do is um you're putting your energy

229
00:13:51,831 --> 00:13:56,311
into that dough it's going to warm it up oh yeah also sorry i should have mentioned that you need

230
00:13:56,311 --> 00:14:01,771
to make sure when you put your water in that it's tepid so like a disappointing bath so the

231
00:14:01,771 --> 00:14:07,111
optimal temperature is about 26 degrees so when you kind of dip it in it's like you definitely

232
00:14:07,111 --> 00:14:13,971
you know it's cold um and so it's not really that warm it's sort of like more like what you'd bath

233
00:14:13,971 --> 00:14:23,811
a baby in or is that yeah exactly yeah like a baby yeah and that that's um uh just really good

234
00:14:23,811 --> 00:14:25,891
or activating the yeast and getting everything going.

235
00:14:26,051 --> 00:14:28,491
And actually with bread make, you just want to get some energy into it

236
00:14:28,491 --> 00:14:29,611
and get it moving.

237
00:14:29,711 --> 00:14:33,031
If you start with cold water, it's fine, but everything just takes a lot longer.

238
00:14:33,411 --> 00:14:37,271
And then the temptation is that you don't prove it enough

239
00:14:37,271 --> 00:14:39,491
or ferment it and develop enough flavor.

240
00:14:39,731 --> 00:14:42,611
So now you've mixed it all together and then you need to knead it

241
00:14:42,611 --> 00:14:44,531
and you need to knead it for about 10 minutes.

242
00:14:45,751 --> 00:14:47,831
There's no really kind of shortcut in this.

243
00:14:48,171 --> 00:14:52,771
So what I would do is try and find a song that lasts about 10 minutes or so

244
00:14:52,771 --> 00:14:56,951
and press it and then just you know you've got to get working and you can get arms and stuff

245
00:14:56,951 --> 00:15:02,471
and make sure you clear a nice bit of work surface you've got a bit space and um and then what what

246
00:15:02,471 --> 00:15:06,371
is really helpful is if you have a dough scraper now um these are basically like a little plastic

247
00:15:06,371 --> 00:15:11,851
scraper that you can use to just scrape things up again um and the dough will feel sticky and the

248
00:15:11,851 --> 00:15:17,851
temptation is to add more flour but actually if you add more flour you'll end up um uh you'll end

249
00:15:17,851 --> 00:15:23,611
up with a drier loaf so um so it starts off sticky it's sticking to your hand actually as you start

250
00:15:23,611 --> 00:15:28,651
developing that gluten and getting that stretch you'll find that the the dough becomes kind of

251
00:15:28,651 --> 00:15:33,451
silky and soft and it becomes less sticky and it kind of holds it shape a bit better and then and

252
00:15:33,451 --> 00:15:37,951
that happens after about 10 minutes of kneading so and and that's that's probably one of the biggest

253
00:15:37,951 --> 00:15:41,811
common mistakes we see is that people freak out it's really wet so they add more flour and then

254
00:15:41,811 --> 00:15:45,631
by the time they started kneading it then very dry and then the loaf is very dense and doesn't

255
00:15:45,631 --> 00:15:51,391
power yeah it needs that a bit of moisture for it to be able to express itself so now you've

256
00:15:51,391 --> 00:15:56,331
kneaded your dough it's all nice and soft and stretchy and it's feeling good you now need to

257
00:15:56,331 --> 00:16:01,151
give this what we call a bulk ferment and this is basically the first proof so the yeast is just

258
00:16:01,151 --> 00:16:06,071
starting to kick into gear every 20 minutes it doubles so at the moment there's very little

259
00:16:06,071 --> 00:16:10,971
activity so we put it into a bowl cover it with a tea towel or you know something to stop it drying

260
00:16:10,971 --> 00:16:14,991
out and then you want to put it somewhere warm now at this time of year if you've got your central

261
00:16:14,991 --> 00:16:20,091
heating on your ambient temperature be fine if your house is very very cold you can find a kind

262
00:16:20,091 --> 00:16:26,231
of warm place to put it that's by your boiler some people find they put it in their oven which is

263
00:16:26,231 --> 00:16:31,131
with the light on so that can kind of heat up to about 30 degrees but it needs to be somewhere warm

264
00:16:31,131 --> 00:16:36,931
and it'll take between 45 minutes to an hour and it'll essentially balloon up and double in size

265
00:16:36,931 --> 00:16:44,171
so that's the first box men and um and then you take it out and you knock it back and um and that

266
00:16:44,171 --> 00:16:49,931
expels lots of the air and um the good thing with um dry yeast or fresh yeast is that you get two

267
00:16:49,931 --> 00:16:55,071
rides out of it and um the first ride it's all a bit kind of volatile a bit crazy the second ride

268
00:16:55,071 --> 00:16:59,191
is a bit more consistent but also in the second one you'll get more flavor so you're you're giving

269
00:16:59,191 --> 00:17:02,611
it a longer ferment and at this point you can decide what you're going to do with it so you

270
00:17:02,611 --> 00:17:07,711
could make little rolls and you put my tray and let them prove up and you'd have um you probably

271
00:17:07,711 --> 00:17:12,591
from a kilo dough you'd get a dozen rolls or so which because of sandwiches or whatnot you could

272
00:17:12,591 --> 00:17:18,551
use it for pizza so it would make quite a basic pizza but it's not going to be like a beautiful

273
00:17:18,551 --> 00:17:23,051
sourdough one but it's you know your kids would like it you know or you can if you've got a tin

274
00:17:23,051 --> 00:17:26,951
just a little bit of olive oil inside the tin stock sticking and then you want to just mold it

275
00:17:26,951 --> 00:17:33,031
and it's kind of hard to describe it but essentially you're looking to kind of fold it in on itself so

276
00:17:33,031 --> 00:17:37,151
you've got like a kind of sausage and then you want a seam along the bottom and then you turn

277
00:17:37,151 --> 00:17:41,211
that over and the seam goes on on the bottom of the tin and then again you cover it with um

278
00:17:41,211 --> 00:17:46,311
with a tea towel and you let that prove up again for another 45 minutes to an hour until it's you

279
00:17:46,311 --> 00:17:51,591
know coming off the top of the tin and um and then whilst that proving you preheat your oven

280
00:17:51,591 --> 00:17:57,311
so you need to crank your oven up to like 220 degrees or so and then you chuck the um well

281
00:17:57,311 --> 00:18:03,331
you place very carefully the tin into the oven and then i always just put a tray at the bottom

282
00:18:03,331 --> 00:18:09,771
and chuck a cup of um water into the oven and then you shut the door and then you leave it for about

283
00:18:09,771 --> 00:18:14,591
15 minutes without opening the door and what that steam does is it does a couple of things one is it

284
00:18:14,591 --> 00:18:19,351
it creates a really steamy environment so as the dough starts to heat up in that kind of intense

285
00:18:19,351 --> 00:18:25,071
heat it stops it from setting so it allows it to kind of open up and grow a bit more but also it

286
00:18:25,071 --> 00:18:29,291
gives you a really lovely crust now this is when you're baking when you're getting bread from a

287
00:18:29,291 --> 00:18:34,831
bakery they'll have professional bread ovens and often ovens at home aren't really designed for

288
00:18:34,831 --> 00:18:40,171
bread making they don't have the steam it allows to escape quite quite rapidly because they don't

289
00:18:40,171 --> 00:18:44,531
have um they're not fully sealed so you just have to experiment a little bit but i find that mine

290
00:18:44,531 --> 00:18:48,851
if i put a tray in bottom and chuck the kind of you know half a pint of water in and that keeps

291
00:18:48,851 --> 00:18:53,311
enough of the moisture in the oven for about 15 minutes then you open the door let all the steam

292
00:18:53,311 --> 00:18:58,151
out and then if they're still watering the tray remove the tray and then allow another 10 minutes

293
00:18:58,151 --> 00:19:02,611
or so for the loaf just to kind of brown up in a dry season.

294
00:19:03,331 --> 00:19:06,971
And then obviously the main thing you've got to make sure is that it's cooked all the way

295
00:19:06,971 --> 00:19:07,191
through.

296
00:19:07,631 --> 00:19:12,191
So the easiest way to check is to take it out of the tin and give it a little tap.

297
00:19:12,471 --> 00:19:16,511
And if it sounds kind of hollow, like if it looks kind of golden brown, smells delicious,

298
00:19:16,651 --> 00:19:17,231
it smells like bread.

299
00:19:17,411 --> 00:19:20,771
If it's kind of pale, flaccid and looks raw, it's probably not.

300
00:19:20,991 --> 00:19:22,731
So you just have to use your common sense here.

301
00:19:22,731 --> 00:19:26,731
But generally speaking, 25 minutes at 200 degrees,

302
00:19:26,731 --> 00:19:28,731
it's going to be pretty much cooked.

303
00:19:28,731 --> 00:19:41,887
And then once the loaf is baked if you want to get really technical you can stick a digital thermometer in And as long as it above like 90 degrees then the inside is cooked If it registering 40 degrees you

304
00:19:41,887 --> 00:19:45,226
still going to have raw dough in there. So you need to cook it a little bit longer. And particularly

305
00:19:45,226 --> 00:19:49,326
if you're baking really big lobes and you're a bit nervous about whether it's cooked inside or

306
00:19:49,326 --> 00:19:53,187
baked inside, that's a good way of doing it. And then you need to let it cool down. You should

307
00:19:53,187 --> 00:19:58,246
never try and cut up red pressure out the oven. What happens is all of the starches and the flour

308
00:19:58,246 --> 00:19:59,846
are all kind of scrambled up

309
00:19:59,846 --> 00:20:02,187
and so the inside will be very fragile.

310
00:20:02,726 --> 00:20:03,667
And then as it cools down,

311
00:20:03,806 --> 00:20:05,207
the starches start to form together

312
00:20:05,207 --> 00:20:07,367
and form these strong bonds.

313
00:20:07,947 --> 00:20:13,147
And that takes about 25 to 30 minutes or so.

314
00:20:13,346 --> 00:20:14,927
Then you can cut up and you can devour.

315
00:20:15,326 --> 00:20:17,627
And I'd say the one downside of making bread at home

316
00:20:17,627 --> 00:20:19,606
is that on the day of baking,

317
00:20:19,606 --> 00:20:23,266
you'll consume probably more bread than you require.

318
00:20:23,887 --> 00:20:25,486
But hey, come to the water.

319
00:20:25,766 --> 00:20:27,266
No, that's so good, Henry.

320
00:20:27,266 --> 00:20:30,167
And you mentioned a couple of times using a tea towel.

321
00:20:30,566 --> 00:20:33,966
And do you use a damp one or just a dry one?

322
00:20:34,127 --> 00:20:35,966
Yeah, just a dry, clean one.

323
00:20:36,226 --> 00:20:37,286
I mean, you could use a bit of cling film.

324
00:20:37,427 --> 00:20:39,586
It's just essentially to stop it skinning over.

325
00:20:40,246 --> 00:20:42,826
And then with that dough, so that's a very simple dough.

326
00:20:43,086 --> 00:20:47,647
If you wanted to give it a bit more shelf life and make it a bit softer, you add some fat.

327
00:20:47,806 --> 00:20:50,346
So the easiest fat to add are either olive oil or butter.

328
00:20:50,667 --> 00:20:54,867
Butter will give you a slightly more kind of a softer kind of briochey feel.

329
00:20:54,867 --> 00:20:58,427
whereas olive oil you'll get a slightly more kind of crispy feel.

330
00:20:58,526 --> 00:21:01,066
But again, any kind of fat will improve shelf life.

331
00:21:01,746 --> 00:21:05,346
You can add sugar, though I don't tend to add sugar because I don't think it's required.

332
00:21:07,466 --> 00:21:09,346
Or the other thing you can do...

333
00:21:09,907 --> 00:21:10,526
Yeah, that's interesting.

334
00:21:10,526 --> 00:21:11,226
Yeah, that's interesting.

335
00:21:11,346 --> 00:21:14,586
Sugar, because it's supposed to activate the yeast or something, isn't it?

336
00:21:14,647 --> 00:21:15,966
So you don't use the sugar.

337
00:21:16,326 --> 00:21:17,127
It's a lot of botox.

338
00:21:17,586 --> 00:21:21,667
So the sugar does feed the yeast, but there's sugar in the flour.

339
00:21:21,667 --> 00:21:24,266
You know, because flour is a carbohydrate.

340
00:21:24,266 --> 00:21:30,246
right is sugar isn't it and um so yeah you don't you don't need to add sugar i think that's i think

341
00:21:30,246 --> 00:21:34,167
that's one of those like someone must have written the recipe in like the 80s before they

342
00:21:34,167 --> 00:21:38,466
you know when it was fashionable and then no one's ever checked it and then every time they just

343
00:21:38,466 --> 00:21:42,907
google bread recipe they just keep you cycling the same one so anyway don't add sugar it's not

344
00:21:42,907 --> 00:21:47,387
needed um you can put jam and honey on your bread i'm not gonna you know you don't need it in bread

345
00:21:47,387 --> 00:21:52,407
um you do need to salt though salt is super important it not only gives it flavor but also

346
00:21:52,407 --> 00:21:55,127
So if you don't put salt in, the salt helps regulate the yeast.

347
00:21:55,447 --> 00:21:59,346
So without the salt, you can get very volatile breadfruit in.

348
00:21:59,867 --> 00:22:05,147
So it's a bit like a kind of parental guidance on some teenagers out in Magaluf for the first time.

349
00:22:05,346 --> 00:22:08,226
The salt helps just, you know, it keeps them in check just a little bit.

350
00:22:08,647 --> 00:22:11,667
The other thing the salt does is that it helps give it really nice health.

351
00:22:11,927 --> 00:22:15,387
Without the salt, you'll get a very kind of dull, quite an unattractive loaf.

352
00:22:15,546 --> 00:22:20,147
We always know at the bakery when the salt's been forgotten because the bread comes out and it looks dreadful.

353
00:22:20,147 --> 00:22:21,566
and it's normal salt.

354
00:22:22,306 --> 00:22:23,726
Oh, that's interesting, is it?

355
00:22:24,187 --> 00:22:25,167
So salt is important.

356
00:22:25,506 --> 00:22:26,387
The other thing you can do,

357
00:22:26,467 --> 00:22:28,046
which I know that you're always talking about

358
00:22:28,046 --> 00:22:29,367
trying to get more fiber in your diet,

359
00:22:29,486 --> 00:22:32,187
is that you could put in some wholemeal flour.

360
00:22:32,726 --> 00:22:33,566
It's great.

361
00:22:33,947 --> 00:22:35,086
That's got the whole grain,

362
00:22:35,306 --> 00:22:37,286
and so you're getting all of the nutritionals with it,

363
00:22:37,387 --> 00:22:39,187
all the fiber and all the brown, et cetera.

364
00:22:39,606 --> 00:22:41,846
But when you add some wholemeal flour,

365
00:22:42,086 --> 00:22:44,127
I wouldn't go 100% wholemeal straight away

366
00:22:44,127 --> 00:22:47,467
because it does make the dough tricky to handle.

367
00:22:47,707 --> 00:22:48,846
White flour is certainly easier.

368
00:22:48,846 --> 00:22:55,346
but maybe start off with 25 percent so if you've got a kilo of white flour make it 750 and then do

369
00:22:55,346 --> 00:23:02,006
250 grams of whole milk flour and then you just need to up your moisture contents your water by

370
00:23:02,006 --> 00:23:09,506
maybe 10 percent so if you've got 550 grams of water make it 600 or 650 just add a bit extra

371
00:23:09,506 --> 00:23:15,647
because the bran will absorb more water than the white and um and so you'll end up with a very dry

372
00:23:15,647 --> 00:23:20,526
low so if you're making whole millet just needs to be slightly wetter um that makes sense yeah

373
00:23:20,526 --> 00:23:27,407
that makes sense yeah does it matter what salt you use like um i assume a table salt's a no-no

374
00:23:27,407 --> 00:23:32,726
and do you prefer like the cornish sea salts and that kind of thing i mean i'm in the west country

375
00:23:32,726 --> 00:23:38,147
so i like cornish sea salt um but you could use any any kind of flaky salt or any any sea

376
00:23:38,147 --> 00:23:44,026
just do um but yeah sea salt's fine okay that sounds great there's loads of top tips in that

377
00:23:44,026 --> 00:23:49,246
henry i'm sure yeah i was doing the i didn't put the water in when you um when you bake the bread

378
00:23:49,246 --> 00:23:54,066
so that's a that's a thing and i was probably one of those people who um adds the flour because

379
00:23:54,066 --> 00:23:58,746
it's sticking um and when when you mention you're needing it so you're literally taking the bread

380
00:23:58,746 --> 00:24:03,387
out and not putting it onto any floured surface to start with you're just going for it straight

381
00:24:03,387 --> 00:24:09,127
away you need it yeah and the thing with bread making is that you know this is a 20 minute

382
00:24:09,127 --> 00:24:14,887
introduction it's a lifetime of learning you know for something so simple and once you kind of dive

383
00:24:14,887 --> 00:24:19,606
into that rabbit hole you realize it you know it goes deep and it gets complicated really quickly

384
00:24:19,606 --> 00:24:26,246
and a lot of it is misguided or it confuses people or it puts people off and I think for me

385
00:24:26,246 --> 00:24:29,826
when it comes to bread making so we have a cookery school and we get a lot of people coming in

386
00:24:29,826 --> 00:24:34,566
and and often I asked them right at the beginning like you know how many of you expect them to leave

387
00:24:34,566 --> 00:24:39,986
here like a basing ninja like someone who can like you know make this a wonderful sourdough that's

388
00:24:39,986 --> 00:24:44,586
gonna look beautiful and everyone puts their hands up and you're like that's not gonna happen

389
00:24:44,586 --> 00:24:50,387
today i can like start you on your journey but that requires probably 10 000 hours of practicing

390
00:24:50,387 --> 00:24:55,387
until you're gonna be a master i'm sorry so i think for me bread making it's like if you've

391
00:24:55,387 --> 00:24:59,407
never done it before just start simple don't don't overcomplicate and you can work up to it

392
00:24:59,407 --> 00:25:04,066
it's same probably with exercise don't start on a lift you know the heaviest weights start low and

393
00:25:04,066 --> 00:25:08,006
build up and actually get your confidence and then you'll get better and there's some great

394
00:25:08,006 --> 00:25:11,887
communities out there there's lots of good cookery spools there's loads of good information online

395
00:25:11,887 --> 00:25:16,606
and i'll share this recipe and i'll share my sourdough recipe and i think we've even got some

396
00:25:16,606 --> 00:25:21,546
um video links but yeah it's it's a wonderful thing to be able to do and if you're looking to

397
00:25:21,546 --> 00:25:27,927
yeah take back control of um um all the ingredients that go into your body particularly when it comes

398
00:25:27,927 --> 00:25:32,687
to bread then making it from scratch you know that is a great step exactly and like you said

399
00:25:32,687 --> 00:25:38,826
in just 20 minutes, you've now shown us how to make a white loaf and a wholemeal loaf. And it's

400
00:25:38,826 --> 00:25:43,167
lovely because you've given us such clear guidance, Henry. It's really easy to follow.

401
00:25:43,826 --> 00:25:47,867
And I'm sure everyone's going to feel super proud of the bread that they make having listened to

402
00:25:47,867 --> 00:25:52,546
this. And we'll just feel more confident knowing that they're doing the right thing. So that's

403
00:25:52,546 --> 00:25:57,887
super. So thanks so much for sharing that, Henry. I know I can't wait to give it a go. And I can let

404
00:25:57,887 --> 00:26:03,546
you know how we get on. Thanks, Hayley. Well, till next time. Yes, see you on the next episode.