1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,240 Hello, hello. 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:03,260 What's up? 3 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:05,880 Welcome to another episode. 4 00:00:06,260 --> 00:00:07,160 Happy Wednesday. 5 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,480 On Wednesday instead of Tuesday. 6 00:00:09,780 --> 00:00:11,640 Live stream number 21, one day late. 7 00:00:11,980 --> 00:00:14,520 I was a little out of it yesterday, but we're back on. 8 00:00:15,580 --> 00:00:17,300 So I can't wait to get into this. 9 00:00:17,460 --> 00:00:19,080 Brought to you by Byte Federal. 10 00:00:19,740 --> 00:00:20,680 Go bank yourself. 11 00:00:20,900 --> 00:00:21,360 Point of sale. 12 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:22,360 ATMs. 13 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:23,840 ATMs. 14 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:25,900 You can get that stuff into self-custody. 15 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,700 But yeah, it's been another week. 16 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:29,160 How you been? 17 00:00:29,460 --> 00:00:30,160 I've been good. 18 00:00:30,460 --> 00:00:34,160 It's been a little, you know, September, man. 19 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:34,860 It's just September. 20 00:00:35,020 --> 00:00:35,620 I don't know what to say. 21 00:00:35,820 --> 00:00:38,760 I like the glasses and the buttoned-up shirt look. 22 00:00:38,820 --> 00:00:40,060 I like this little zipper thing here. 23 00:00:40,260 --> 00:00:40,960 Zipper thing. 24 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:41,460 Oh, okay. 25 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:42,440 That's kind of unique. 26 00:00:42,500 --> 00:00:43,140 Yeah, that's good. 27 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,860 And Cedric, I like your new shirt, too, there, big guy. 28 00:00:46,020 --> 00:00:46,240 Yeah. 29 00:00:46,540 --> 00:00:48,140 That's live in Cedric's store. 30 00:00:48,140 --> 00:00:49,140 This is my creation. 31 00:00:49,140 --> 00:00:51,400 Yeah, it's on the Bitcoin Matrix store. 32 00:00:51,780 --> 00:00:52,220 That's right. 33 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,360 Yeah, the Bitcoin Matrix store.com. 34 00:00:54,580 --> 00:00:54,820 Store. 35 00:00:55,060 --> 00:00:56,140 The Bitcoin Matrix. 36 00:00:56,460 --> 00:00:57,420 Let's get going, man. 37 00:00:57,660 --> 00:00:58,260 Let's do it. 38 00:00:58,260 --> 00:01:02,920 All right, Bitcoin Center, episode number 21, brought to you by Byte Federal. 39 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:03,820 Go bank yourself. 40 00:01:28,260 --> 00:01:28,940 Next big thing. 41 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:29,840 What do you think? 42 00:01:30,300 --> 00:01:31,400 I think it's rat poison. 43 00:01:32,100 --> 00:01:32,460 Bitcoin. 44 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:34,060 You never heard them a few weeks ago? 45 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:35,860 Now everybody's talking about them. 46 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,120 But is it a currency? 47 00:01:37,380 --> 00:01:37,860 I don't know. 48 00:01:38,060 --> 00:01:39,380 Or is it more like a stock? 49 00:01:39,580 --> 00:01:40,960 Or is it a tulip bowl? 50 00:01:41,060 --> 00:01:42,340 Or is it just stupid? 51 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,960 To me, it smells like Ponzi scheme in the greater pool theory right now. 52 00:01:46,020 --> 00:01:48,660 You do like five minutes of freaking research. 53 00:01:50,420 --> 00:01:51,280 It was me. 54 00:01:52,500 --> 00:01:53,260 Oh, man. 55 00:01:53,300 --> 00:01:54,180 I didn't get that wrong. 56 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:54,700 All right. 57 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,080 Bitcoin's recent rally. 58 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,320 Do you agree? Is crypto finally dead? 59 00:01:59,420 --> 00:02:00,140 Go to the next one. 60 00:02:00,300 --> 00:02:02,500 Matter of fact, they're kind of in the Ethernet. 61 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:03,420 What are they? 62 00:02:03,540 --> 00:02:05,420 Some rumors that it's a Japanese guy, 63 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,180 but they know that he's a fake name. 64 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:08,020 It was a pseudonym. 65 00:02:08,340 --> 00:02:10,600 I mean, you're literally putting real money onto a system 66 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,420 that we don't even know who created it. 67 00:02:12,500 --> 00:02:13,520 Look, I'm Bill Bad, Henry. 68 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,160 Is this the most exciting bull run ever? 69 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:17,560 Not for me. 70 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:18,880 No, it's not. 71 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:34,520 welcome to bitcoin center the fast-paced show where the debate is the story 72 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:43,560 all right topic one the flush uh the fed cut triggers a btc leverage flush with bitcoin's 73 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:49,000 exchange supply ratio plunging and futures leverage wiped out post-fed cut is spot demand 74 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:54,520 quietly taking over the driver's seat this was uh strange we know i don't think spot demand is 75 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:59,320 quietly taking over the driver's seat i think it's not maybe in the driver's seat but what i 76 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:07,160 found out but this was confounding why did bitcoin's exchange supply ratio fall uh showing fewer 77 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:14,120 coins available for trading on binance when the fed cut rate wouldn't i mean uh or why would uh the 78 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:21,240 perpetual open interest drop 395 000 btc to 378 000 btc after the feds rate decision i'm not a 79 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,560 trader i'm not into the data i thought this that would be somewhat bullish maybe it wasn't bullish 80 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:33,320 enough uh and then you know you hear this in analyst track 116k and 113k is key levels as 81 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:39,080 bitcoin consolidates and we're here we are at what 113 000 or 12 below this so this is kind of 82 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:44,280 i don't feel like that means we're crashing so this didn't there wasn't a lot of signal here no 83 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:49,480 No. I mean, this is, the market seems to be driven right now by options traders. 84 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:50,280 Yeah. 85 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,700 And anyone playing the derivatives markets. 86 00:03:54,740 --> 00:04:04,040 And until we get to a consolidation point where a breakout one way or the other creates an extensive amount of volatility, 87 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,240 we're going to be kind of directionless. 88 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:13,500 do you you know if there's going to be sort of a big uh q4 that everyone sort of planned on or you 89 00:04:13,500 --> 00:04:18,020 know thought or you know prognosticated for do you think there's going to need a spark for something 90 00:04:18,020 --> 00:04:23,940 like that to happen would it need like you know an amazon to say we're going to uh accept payments 91 00:04:23,940 --> 00:04:28,820 in in bitcoin i think there's so much of what's happening right now in the markets and the reason 92 00:04:28,820 --> 00:04:33,140 why bitcoin goes on these sideway channels for so long is because people accumulating bitcoin 93 00:04:33,140 --> 00:04:40,060 are using options and derivatives to generate more Bitcoin 94 00:04:40,060 --> 00:04:42,880 that they're able to acquire at a better rate. 95 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:48,840 So you get these put call placements all around the edges of this market 96 00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:54,320 in order to extract yield, acquire more Bitcoin at a better price, etc., etc. 97 00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:56,960 And until that gets to an inflection point, 98 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,600 then it'll break out and move violently in one way or the other. 99 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:10,940 But I don't think that, you know, like I don't think we see like Fat Finger buying anymore, right? 100 00:05:10,980 --> 00:05:13,620 People are tactically and strategically buying. 101 00:05:13,740 --> 00:05:15,280 So they're going to use these processes. 102 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:20,060 So you don't get that retail craziness like we got in the early days. 103 00:05:20,220 --> 00:05:20,760 Yeah, maybe not. 104 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:21,100 We'll see. 105 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:22,680 Let's get on to this next one. 106 00:05:23,980 --> 00:05:24,580 Jack Mauler. 107 00:05:24,580 --> 00:05:25,820 See the price of Bitcoin heady. 108 00:05:26,460 --> 00:05:26,880 Higher. 109 00:05:27,500 --> 00:05:27,940 Higher. 110 00:05:28,060 --> 00:05:28,700 How much higher? 111 00:05:28,700 --> 00:05:29,920 A lot higher. 112 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:38,000 My general framework from the highest level is human beings collectively, we own about $900 trillion worth of stuff. 113 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:44,220 That's equities, the things behind us, real estate, precious metals, fine art, all of the things that we own. 114 00:05:44,780 --> 00:05:47,460 Half of that we're using as a savings account. 115 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:53,940 We're owning the portfolio of companies or the art or the house to actually try and persist wealth into the future. 116 00:05:54,260 --> 00:05:56,200 I think Bitcoin's going after that market. 117 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,000 It's going after a market of $400 to $500 trillion worth, and right now it's $2.5 trillion. 118 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:05,040 so i think in purchasing power terms bitcoin can go up 100 to 200 times more from here all right so 119 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:10,960 we know bitcoin obviously is the well that's more the moon math i mean what kind of time frame you 120 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,680 think yeah i think that's the only thing that's missing from that right that and also the i think 121 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:22,880 the other thing that's missing from that analysis is the uh the kegger of bitcoin as that drives 122 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:29,200 into becoming a more of a low volatility lower return asset into the future then people are 123 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:35,200 going to start to compare investing in bitcoin to other assets right right now as a top performing 124 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:41,040 global asset it's hard to beat bitcoin in the future if the kegger is 20 there may be a handful 125 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,560 of stocks out there that do a lot better than bitcoin and therefore i think there's only one 126 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:50,080 this year you know the stock that's out doing bitcoin right now build a bear is up 120 this year 127 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:56,640 uh the sales are only up 12 percent we should get a builder bear etf uh talk about sort of like the 128 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:03,720 reincarnation of tulip mania. Let's go on to the next one here. All right. How would you advise me 129 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,300 to address that question bang on so that it's a no-brainer? Yeah, I think the answer is the 130 00:07:07,300 --> 00:07:11,260 treasury company is sitting on a mountain of hard assets. In a rational market, it'll just sell the 131 00:07:11,260 --> 00:07:14,800 equity to pay the dividend. In an irrational market where the equity decouples from the Bitcoin 132 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,100 fundamentals, you're going to sell the Bitcoin volatility or you're going to engage in derivatives 133 00:07:18,100 --> 00:07:21,680 trading in order to extract the yield directly from the Bitcoin. If necessary, you're probably 134 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,480 going to sell a future, right? You're going to sell an out-of-the-money call option against the 135 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,320 Bitcoin or you're going to enter into a basis trade. And in the worst case, you're just going 136 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,400 to sell the underlying Bitcoin itself. Because as long as Bitcoin is growing at a multiple of 137 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:36,320 the underlying dividend, you always have that as a final option. Well, that really kind of closes 138 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:45,020 the loop on our conversation with Dan and Darkseid. So the question becomes, and this is, by the way, 139 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,980 at the Bitcoin Unconference, Saylor floated this as a worst case scenario to sell calls, 140 00:07:48,980 --> 00:07:55,060 warrants or even some btc to fund obligations uh is he responding to the pressure on twitter that 141 00:07:55,060 --> 00:08:00,500 dan and dark side were suggesting i mean i think what he's responding to probably the pressure on 142 00:08:00,500 --> 00:08:07,060 the price uh and and mnav and uh i guess yeah he's definitely in tune with what's happened i think 143 00:08:07,060 --> 00:08:12,980 he somewhere said like he'll be digging into these comments on x and he'll find you know an account 144 00:08:12,980 --> 00:08:18,100 with 300 followers and he'll be like this is a bot like i'm here trying to figure out why a bot is 145 00:08:18,100 --> 00:08:20,280 saying this negative commentary 146 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,120 about my company. He thinks there's 147 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:23,840 sort of bot armies that are 148 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,780 maybe... 149 00:08:25,780 --> 00:08:28,060 I think there's validity. There are definitely bot armies 150 00:08:28,060 --> 00:08:29,780 on X, swaying opinion 151 00:08:29,780 --> 00:08:31,340 on lots of matters. 152 00:08:33,260 --> 00:08:34,000 It's interesting. 153 00:08:34,140 --> 00:08:36,100 Why has he not ever said anything like that before? 154 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:39,640 It's the timing of this comment. 155 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:41,700 I think it's really about selling the Bitcoin, maybe. 156 00:08:41,820 --> 00:08:43,520 The last thing he said. 157 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,180 But also like selling 158 00:08:45,180 --> 00:08:47,240 derivatives or 159 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:52,760 generating a trading arm they need a separate trading entity that operates before either right 160 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,080 that's that's that's that's the thread that has to be pulled there yeah and he they need a trading 161 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,560 company more like where a lot of us have imagined that they become like the goldman sachs of bitcoin 162 00:09:01,560 --> 00:09:07,240 right they manage the flows in the market right and they they uh benefit from that as the largest 163 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,480 holder and yeah it's the first time i've ever heard him talk about that kind of stuff but that 164 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,960 really what that boils down to is they're gonna have to sell some bitcoin to carry the tree yeah 165 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:17,680 I think that's how I see that. 166 00:09:17,820 --> 00:09:20,520 If they go there, I think they become really... 167 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,340 But he's also saying if the market's acting irrational. 168 00:09:23,620 --> 00:09:27,280 So we'll see what the definition of irrational is in this MNAP battle. 169 00:09:27,460 --> 00:09:29,100 Let's get on to the next one here. 170 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,360 Bitcoin mining hits new difficulty peak. 171 00:09:32,780 --> 00:09:37,640 Are record difficulty in surging hash rate signs of unstoppable network security? 172 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:38,980 Yes. 173 00:09:39,460 --> 00:09:39,880 Okay. 174 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:40,860 Cash wars are good. 175 00:09:40,860 --> 00:09:45,660 the thing that I think people are worried about with the centralization of mining, 176 00:09:46,060 --> 00:09:51,080 bigger entities, but at the same time, yes, there might be bigger entities coming into mining, 177 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:56,400 but we're getting decentralization through nation state participation, right? We're starting to see 178 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:01,800 not only big corporate miners, but nation state miners that are not necessarily friends 179 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:07,620 and united globally. So this is the hash war that we had talked about for many, many years. 180 00:10:07,620 --> 00:10:11,940 and this is kind of what Jason Lowery had predicted, 181 00:10:12,260 --> 00:10:14,620 what Max Keiser's been predicting for many, many years. 182 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,840 As hash rate increases and it drives to entities 183 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,840 that have the resources and the free energy 184 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,080 or cheap energy to mine efficiently, 185 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:27,900 we're going to get diversification 186 00:10:27,900 --> 00:10:29,820 into bigger and bigger mining. 187 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:31,800 If someone had free or cheap energy 188 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,740 to mine a substantial amount of the newly issued Bitcoin per day, 189 00:10:35,740 --> 00:10:40,800 would that be like that wouldn't be enough though to move markets if they sold that i guess that's 190 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:45,760 a good point because i didn't i probably should have said this but a lot of the hash wars are 191 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:52,060 securing your ability to transact on the network right black space right if you're xyz country and 192 00:10:52,060 --> 00:10:57,660 you're worried about being sanctioned by the u.s you might want to have a significant position of 193 00:10:57,660 --> 00:11:03,600 mining and control of resources on the bitcoin network so that you could transact with bitcoin 194 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:11,680 globally where no one could censor you right right yeah all right all right eric 195 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:18,320 are you there let's bring him on there he is this is the man of the hour and this is such an exciting 196 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:27,360 topic um tether onshore versus offshore tether this is uh you know what do you think about this 197 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:32,880 splitting tether into a u.s compliant and offshore version what do you think this means for bitcoin 198 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:38,140 I think he's on mute. 199 00:11:38,220 --> 00:11:39,260 Oh, you're muted, buddy. 200 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:41,240 My bad. 201 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:42,860 Can you hear me now? 202 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:43,440 Gotcha. 203 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:52,540 Yeah, so for context, earlier this year, my venture firm, we put out this report on when 204 00:11:52,540 --> 00:11:55,300 everybody was talking about, okay, so banks are coming to Bitcoin. 205 00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:00,520 The Trump administration repealed this key regulation, SAV-121, and that makes it much 206 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,160 easier for banks to now adopt digital assets in general. 207 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:12,000 And we're like, what does that mean? How do we still man that? We did a whole deep dive with the CTO of Silvergate going into here's what bank adoption for Bitcoin looks like. 208 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:25,540 And a huge part of that question has been stablecoins. So we spent a lot of time kind of thinking really prospectively about what it means when stablecoins are coming into the banking system and how Bitcoin is ultimately going to be tied in to that form of adoption. 209 00:12:25,540 --> 00:12:31,460 So Tether being far and away the most dominant, the decisions that they're making today are 210 00:12:31,460 --> 00:12:35,540 setting the precedent for what's going to be happening over the next five to 10 years, 211 00:12:35,540 --> 00:12:38,900 whether other stablecoin issuers do, et cetera. 212 00:12:38,900 --> 00:12:57,291 And yeah so I think one of the key ideas that we came to is that when the Genius Act was passed in August this summer that set a pretty hard line in the sand for in the US if you are issuing a stable coin 213 00:12:57,351 --> 00:13:01,951 or if you're a financial institution participating with stable coins, then you need to be dealing 214 00:13:01,951 --> 00:13:08,511 with stable coins that are following the Genius Act's compliance. And the two primary things that 215 00:13:08,511 --> 00:13:16,751 it did was it said stable coins can only use short duration government and government agency 216 00:13:16,751 --> 00:13:23,571 liabilities. So treasuries and other agency debt. Those are the only things that they can use as 217 00:13:23,571 --> 00:13:29,051 reserves. And they're not allowed to use anything else. And then the other key regulation that was 218 00:13:29,051 --> 00:13:35,071 put in place is that stable coins are not allowed to pay interest on the stable coin unless they 219 00:13:35,071 --> 00:13:41,911 have a US bank charter. And that was just like regulatory ring fencing to effectively allow banks 220 00:13:41,911 --> 00:13:47,531 to still remain competitive within the market. There was this letter that was produced by 221 00:13:47,531 --> 00:13:55,731 the Community Banking Association that was sent to the agency passing the Genius Act and saying, 222 00:13:55,731 --> 00:14:01,811 look, you guys can't allow stable coins to be paying interest. Otherwise, we're not going to 223 00:14:01,811 --> 00:14:06,271 be able to compete. And the reason for that is there's so much intermediation that goes into the 224 00:14:06,271 --> 00:14:10,691 banking system from the point at which treasuries are created, the point at which prime brokers buy 225 00:14:10,691 --> 00:14:16,911 them. And then the Federal Reserve recapitalizes the debt into reserves within the system. And then 226 00:14:16,911 --> 00:14:21,071 ultimately the commercial banks are leveraging those reserves at the Fed through master accounts 227 00:14:21,071 --> 00:14:26,491 to lend within the system and create more money. And then banks who don't have master accounts 228 00:14:26,491 --> 00:14:30,331 have to link up to a bank that does have a master account. So there's all these steps 229 00:14:30,331 --> 00:14:36,151 in that path to the creation of money, and it's highly inefficient. All Bitcoiners know all the 230 00:14:36,151 --> 00:14:41,191 problems with this. What stable coins did is they took debt from the government and immediately 231 00:14:41,191 --> 00:14:46,151 issued it into a form of money. And it just like disintermediated all these different steps within 232 00:14:46,151 --> 00:14:52,751 our banking system. And that's what's really scaring banks right now. So with that context, 233 00:14:52,751 --> 00:15:00,331 next, Tether had to create a US compliant stablecoin, the USAF. And that was one of the key 234 00:15:00,331 --> 00:15:04,131 ideas that we were speculating on the report saying what Tether does is going to be a big 235 00:15:04,131 --> 00:15:08,331 decision here. Are they going to bring international Tether fully into compliance? Are they going to 236 00:15:08,331 --> 00:15:12,771 create something domestically? Or are they just going to move completely offshore? And it looks 237 00:15:12,771 --> 00:15:16,951 like they're kind of splitting between two different products. So that's kind of created 238 00:15:16,951 --> 00:15:21,631 and delineated this line in the sand of there's probably going to be an onshore US denominated 239 00:15:21,631 --> 00:15:25,791 that stablecoin market. And then there's going to be the rest of the world and whatever 240 00:15:25,791 --> 00:15:31,731 regulations exist within the rest of the world. So this offshore market's really interesting. 241 00:15:32,651 --> 00:15:41,911 And what we find, how this all relates to Bitcoin is that Tether today, 5% of the reserves that are 242 00:15:41,911 --> 00:15:47,751 backing Tether are in Bitcoin. And that's something that's going to exist in the offshore market. 243 00:15:47,751 --> 00:15:57,371 And now when we think about that, we think, well, how are stable coins going to be competing over time when we have a much more like open and free market for competition of these? 244 00:15:57,511 --> 00:16:01,651 They're going to start competing and have been slightly competing on paying some degree of interest. 245 00:16:01,731 --> 00:16:07,451 It's not like an industry standard yet, but sooner or later, you know, Tether is one of the most profitable companies in the world. 246 00:16:07,771 --> 00:16:11,871 And sooner or later, they're going to have to pass along that margin to the consumers that are using it. 247 00:16:11,871 --> 00:16:29,031 And when we start to see like this international market of competition amongst stable coins where they're paying out interest, the question becomes what reserves are going to be the most competitive reserves for allowing you to pay interest in the safest manner and maintaining stability of the asset over time. 248 00:16:29,771 --> 00:16:34,171 And so we already have precedent where Tether has been doing this at a 5% reserve ratio in Bitcoin. 249 00:16:34,171 --> 00:16:42,371 And then you can tie this in with what Saylor has recently done with the stretch micro strategy, preferred equity. 250 00:16:43,311 --> 00:16:58,991 And, you know, having a fully collateralized effectively, not like within, you know, the terms of banking, but nonetheless having, you know, taking the economics of Bitcoin and using that to pay a fixed interest rate on short duration, a short duration product that's effectively acting like, you know, a form of liability. 251 00:16:58,991 --> 00:17:06,151 that those economics are kind of like the proto version that we see that will eventually emerge 252 00:17:06,151 --> 00:17:11,251 within the stablecoin market for reserves, where those that have an asset that is producing a 253 00:17:11,251 --> 00:17:16,671 greater amount of capital return over time are going to be in a more competitive position to pay 254 00:17:16,671 --> 00:17:22,551 more competitive rates of interest against those that do not have that in reserves. And that was 255 00:17:22,551 --> 00:17:26,871 one of our predictions in this report. We're just like, there's going to be a market of adoption of 256 00:17:26,871 --> 00:17:31,651 Bitcoin into the reserves of stable coins over time. And I think, you know, it depends on the 257 00:17:31,651 --> 00:17:35,551 time horizon and, you know, a ton of other variables, but we think that that reserve 258 00:17:35,551 --> 00:17:39,331 ratio is going to start to expand gradually. That's going to bring the price of Bitcoin up. 259 00:17:39,471 --> 00:17:45,191 Bitcoin is going to become more stable and we'll start to see it become easier and easier to have 260 00:17:45,191 --> 00:17:51,191 Bitcoin as a reserve as it becomes less volatile with scale. So I was kind of like the big idea 261 00:17:51,191 --> 00:17:56,811 that we were pulling out of a lot of this. So like this whole idea of 262 00:17:56,871 --> 00:18:06,151 offshore tether and offshore tether reserving better purchasing power than onshore tether 263 00:18:07,591 --> 00:18:10,711 over time how would that impact 264 00:18:13,431 --> 00:18:16,471 the global economy that that to me seems like 265 00:18:18,711 --> 00:18:25,031 like the euro dollar system on steroids yeah yeah that's kind of an interesting way of putting it 266 00:18:25,031 --> 00:18:26,451 And it's like, you know, it's comparable, right? 267 00:18:27,651 --> 00:18:29,071 You'd expect to see capital flight. 268 00:18:29,731 --> 00:18:32,151 People are going to want to find more productive forms of capital. 269 00:18:32,331 --> 00:18:34,531 They're going to want to offshore assets as they have. 270 00:18:34,911 --> 00:18:38,371 And they're going to want to find the best means of accessing that capital. 271 00:18:38,371 --> 00:18:49,411 And I think, you know, you can make a strong argument that U.S. denominated stablecoin market's not going to be very competitive at an international level when they're forcing collateral to be these things. 272 00:18:49,411 --> 00:19:00,531 I think probably an interesting point of historical precedent for it would be when we think about the wildcat banking system within the U.S. 273 00:19:01,231 --> 00:19:14,071 And a lot of people will refer to that system as like the 19th century banking system in between the central bank that occurred and ended subsequent to the Federal Reserve being created. 274 00:19:14,071 --> 00:19:20,511 There was this period of, I think, like 80-ish years when we had effectively this wildcat banking system. 275 00:19:20,891 --> 00:19:24,051 And it was allowing banks to issue money off their own reserves. 276 00:19:24,951 --> 00:19:27,151 The definition of free banking is kind of that. 277 00:19:27,251 --> 00:19:32,471 Systems that were based on gold reserves where banks would issue their own notes and people would use these notes as money. 278 00:19:32,791 --> 00:19:36,171 And banks would compete in the market to have the best notes that people demand. 279 00:19:37,891 --> 00:19:39,931 The wildcat system wasn't very free, though. 280 00:19:39,931 --> 00:19:54,091 And it's not a good example of free banking because the ability to do so was done on a state by state basis. And each state was issuing all these different laws that were constraining the free market of the system. 281 00:19:54,091 --> 00:20:06,531 And then like in order for a free banking system to actually work, in order for banks to properly regulate the market and to respond to free market incentives, you can't have a ton of various statewide influence over the reserves you'd be using. 282 00:20:06,531 --> 00:20:19,631 So they had things like bond collateral laws where states were forcing these wildcat banks to not use gold and to use their state debt in some way, shape or form as a form of reserve in this system. 283 00:20:20,291 --> 00:20:23,411 And that fucked up the incentives of the system. 284 00:20:23,411 --> 00:20:26,851 And like that was kind of like the main takeaway at the wildcat is that like when you intervene, 285 00:20:26,851 --> 00:20:31,091 like a free banking system, what's challenging with them is that they kind of have to exist in 286 00:20:31,091 --> 00:20:36,211 a vacuum. The second you start having these competitive dynamics where you are starting 287 00:20:36,211 --> 00:20:40,211 to influence the market incentives and control the reserves in the system, that's when things, 288 00:20:40,211 --> 00:20:46,771 you know, banks go bankrupt for reasons that they shouldn't and you start to get problems. 289 00:20:46,771 --> 00:20:52,371 So what I would expect is that if stable coins become like, you know, today they're kind of this 290 00:20:52,371 --> 00:20:58,371 narrow banking technology, but conceptually the idea of taking a cryptographic signature, 291 00:20:58,371 --> 00:21:06,371 a token and having it represent value backed by some form of reserve, then that conceptually can 292 00:21:06,371 --> 00:21:10,531 emerge as like in an offshore, more like free banking type market. It depends on what, you know, 293 00:21:10,531 --> 00:21:13,251 there's a million variables of how other governments are going to respond to a lot. 294 00:21:13,251 --> 00:21:22,211 Right. But nonetheless, the US is not going to be in a competitive position when they're going 295 00:21:22,211 --> 00:21:28,051 to be putting you know forcing us debt as the only reserve asset and then um banks are going to be 296 00:21:28,051 --> 00:21:32,611 able to pay interest and they're going to have these things called in the us they they're going 297 00:21:32,611 --> 00:21:38,771 to like the new term for um cbcs is going to be tokenized reserve deposits that's going to be like 298 00:21:38,771 --> 00:21:44,851 the new wholesale cbdc and then tokenized deposit that's going to be like the new um uh retail cbdc 299 00:21:44,851 --> 00:21:51,411 and we already see that right like jp morgan launched a tokenized deposit the tokenized 300 00:21:51,411 --> 00:21:58,371 deposit in like a beta program on the base blockchain uh through coinbase and you know 301 00:21:58,371 --> 00:22:04,611 it's like a stable coin that's paying interest effectively yeah so you'll take your usat send it 302 00:22:04,611 --> 00:22:12,211 to uh wells fargo and it'll go into an account that'll pay you interest right right yeah and like 303 00:22:12,211 --> 00:22:16,451 you know i don't you can buy these things on basis tokens and they're like actually paying out a 304 00:22:16,451 --> 00:22:19,651 degree of interest i'm not sure what the mechanics are on the back end for how it's getting paid out 305 00:22:20,291 --> 00:22:28,531 i'm assuming directly through some form of uh their stablecoin um but yeah i think the the idea 306 00:22:28,531 --> 00:22:34,051 is that what that kind of means is that like tether's probably going to get a bank license in 307 00:22:34,051 --> 00:22:38,771 the us and then they'll probably be paying on the usaf token some form of interest or they're going 308 00:22:38,771 --> 00:22:42,451 to issue like a new one that's effectively going to be like a money market again yeah i think a 309 00:22:42,451 --> 00:22:48,611 tokenized money market the second order effect of this play is uh they they want to run usat on 310 00:22:48,611 --> 00:22:55,171 tethers hadron or hadron technology platform to bring real world real real world assets to the 311 00:22:55,171 --> 00:23:03,411 tether network treasuries bonds things of this nature on top and then so i think there's but i 312 00:23:03,411 --> 00:23:08,291 want to know do you think that this is uh they have you know they have brought in bohines so 313 00:23:08,291 --> 00:23:13,811 they have sort of kind of you know uh regulatory capture this is you know going to be more compliant 314 00:23:13,811 --> 00:23:19,411 with the u.s regulation so they have a nice moat around compliance and they have anchorage uh who 315 00:23:19,411 --> 00:23:25,651 is an anchorage who's going to be the issuer so i wonder who the issuer is in the international 316 00:23:26,531 --> 00:23:32,451 tether and do you think that the usat is gonna you know out compete circle and become the number one 317 00:23:33,731 --> 00:23:38,851 you know stable coin in the us that's an interesting question yeah um i i don't have 318 00:23:38,851 --> 00:23:46,491 have a strong opinion on it. I think that with all these things, these markets are very infant. 319 00:23:47,271 --> 00:23:51,991 So I think although they're still large, the market sizes are very large. And because they're 320 00:23:51,991 --> 00:23:56,031 still in their infancy, what people might perceive to be like an entrenchment or a network effect 321 00:23:56,031 --> 00:24:01,011 around some of the assets, we might be surprised that because we're so early that that wasn't that 322 00:24:01,011 --> 00:24:07,191 significant of a network effect. For all the points that you just described, I could definitely 323 00:24:07,191 --> 00:24:13,171 see Tether overtaking Circle at some point. What about in terms of social credit scores? Do you 324 00:24:13,171 --> 00:24:17,131 think one of these coins is more likely to have more draconian measures? 325 00:24:18,491 --> 00:24:23,051 Yeah. I mean, if it's all USAT versus USTT versus USAT? 326 00:24:23,811 --> 00:24:27,851 I think if we look at the behavior of some of them and the alignment of the organizations, 327 00:24:28,091 --> 00:24:33,831 you'd probably expect Circle to be pushing more for that angle of compliance. But at the end of 328 00:24:33,831 --> 00:24:37,591 day i'd assume that they start to become pretty commoditized amongst each other about how they're 329 00:24:37,591 --> 00:24:43,751 all you know structured in a similar manner i'm wondering i'm curious did you see or have you 330 00:24:43,751 --> 00:24:51,351 heard luke grohman talk about um the potential of in the next big recession that in order for 331 00:24:52,151 --> 00:24:57,831 uh the euro dollar uh entities to start to receive fx swaps that they get forced into 332 00:24:58,791 --> 00:25:05,031 dollar stable coins oh that's interesting no i didn't yeah it was a really interesting take 333 00:25:05,031 --> 00:25:13,511 in regards to how it might force adoption in the next recession and that yeah go ahead 334 00:25:13,511 --> 00:25:18,391 no no i mean it just it just hit me like a ton of bricks when he said that i was like holy smokes 335 00:25:19,111 --> 00:25:27,591 because um this you could then start to view these stable coins as a run around from the fed 336 00:25:27,831 --> 00:25:40,823 Right Is that like you just going directly to companies and countries in need of an FX swap and you going directly straight from the treasury through a stablecoin right to them 337 00:25:43,123 --> 00:25:48,283 And I'm wondering if you think that's just to put more pressure on the Fed, 338 00:25:48,283 --> 00:25:51,143 to get more political control of the Fed, 339 00:25:51,643 --> 00:25:57,563 or do you think there's a real strategy there to try and eliminate the Fed long term? 340 00:25:58,543 --> 00:26:12,563 I don't know about a strategy to eliminate the Fed long term, but I view it certainly as a new form of distribution that's circumventing it. 341 00:26:12,563 --> 00:26:33,563 So then the question kind of becomes if we do start to see stable coins providing dollar liquidity outside of the banking system towards these international financial institutions, then that's something where you would probably see pressure come down on the stable coin providers. 342 00:26:33,563 --> 00:26:38,783 Because the thing about like treasury auctions is that you have to meet all these requirements if you want to acquire treasuries at scale. 343 00:26:38,783 --> 00:26:43,123 like there's like treasury direct that retail users with you know small amounts of money can 344 00:26:43,123 --> 00:26:47,083 go buy treasuries directly on but if you want to do this in mass then you need to be licensed 345 00:26:47,083 --> 00:26:53,083 uh within the u.s so you know they are arm's length from being able to distribute 346 00:26:53,083 --> 00:26:58,523 um that dollar liquidity because they can choke off their access to treasuries if they don't like 347 00:26:58,523 --> 00:27:05,243 what they're doing and they want to force it back to the system interesting this has been awesome 348 00:27:05,243 --> 00:27:08,323 Thank you so much for coming on the show and breaking this down for us. 349 00:27:08,383 --> 00:27:17,323 By the way, if any of our listeners have not read Eric's most recent piece, go to X and download it. 350 00:27:17,323 --> 00:27:18,223 It's fire. 351 00:27:19,263 --> 00:27:21,043 Eric, tell them where to get it, buddy. 352 00:27:21,883 --> 00:27:22,263 Yeah, yeah. 353 00:27:22,323 --> 00:27:23,143 Go to our website. 354 00:27:23,323 --> 00:27:25,663 It's epochvc.io. 355 00:27:26,183 --> 00:27:27,663 And if you go into our writings, you'll see it. 356 00:27:27,723 --> 00:27:28,623 It's kind of like the one at the top. 357 00:27:28,703 --> 00:27:29,343 It's the most recent. 358 00:27:29,343 --> 00:27:34,223 but it's a whole deep dive on everything you would possibly want to know about how banks are going 359 00:27:34,223 --> 00:27:38,623 to specifically be adopting bitcoin and then we get into a lot of discussion around stable coins 360 00:27:38,623 --> 00:27:43,503 we were just talking about i never miss anything you write it's so well written and so well 361 00:27:43,503 --> 00:27:49,103 researched i love it so i recommend everybody take a peek you can be a canadian bitcoin conference 362 00:27:49,903 --> 00:27:54,223 they didn't invite me tell them to invite me all right i'll let them know okay 363 00:27:54,223 --> 00:28:01,663 go canada thanks for coming on bro thanks thanks later bye bye this is bitcoin center episode 21 364 00:28:01,663 --> 00:28:08,543 brought to you by bite federal go bank yourself hit like and subscribe go bank go bank yourself 365 00:28:08,543 --> 00:28:15,263 use uh by federal's atm and point of sale and crypto wallet you got it let's head to the lightning 366 00:28:15,263 --> 00:28:25,183 round let's do it all right all i'm going to say is kevin durant what the hell happened here 367 00:28:26,063 --> 00:28:34,703 his agent said oh he found his keys so he found found his bitcoin that he bought like at 650 368 00:28:34,703 --> 00:28:40,863 a coin and uh but lost his keys and now he's recovered them he's got access to his wallet 369 00:28:40,863 --> 00:28:46,543 after all these years i think this is probably i think this is probably his agent going you did 370 00:28:46,543 --> 00:28:50,863 what you bought bitcoin can you just call the toll free number you can't call you can't tell 371 00:28:50,863 --> 00:28:56,463 people you own bitcoin right but like now it's not a bitcoin issue or even a crypto now it's okay 372 00:28:56,463 --> 00:29:00,463 i think it's now i think this means now it's okay for you kevin to be able to tell the world that 373 00:29:00,463 --> 00:29:06,463 you own bitcoin it's cool now right okay i think this whole i lost my keys in a basketball accident 374 00:29:06,463 --> 00:29:14,943 is but that's my this is not news but good for you for finding your keys kevin open invite oh yeah 375 00:29:14,943 --> 00:29:23,263 cz so uh shang shang penzow cz otherwise known as cz boost his stake in athena lab 376 00:29:23,903 --> 00:29:33,663 labs issuer of the usde stable coin which is uh an algorithmic stable coin not backed by treasuries 377 00:29:33,663 --> 00:29:39,903 is this a sign of defy's rise or is he just hedging as stratify warms up to regulated stable coins 378 00:29:40,463 --> 00:29:45,103 i mean to be honest i think this is a sign of defy's rise i mean i think all the regulatory 379 00:29:45,103 --> 00:29:51,183 environments getting paid for stable coins and they want to put a lot of things on stable coin 380 00:29:51,823 --> 00:29:58,463 protocols or platforms or d you know these databases uh and and move assets around so 381 00:29:58,463 --> 00:30:01,163 So CZ has always been a really interesting guy. 382 00:30:01,503 --> 00:30:02,503 He's not in jail. 383 00:30:04,143 --> 00:30:10,923 That's the, you know, he, you know, look, the, the, the stable coin market, you know, 384 00:30:10,923 --> 00:30:17,963 U S treasuries estimated in April that the $295 billion market would boom to 2 trillion by 2028. 385 00:30:19,043 --> 00:30:22,703 And everyone wants, you know, so he, he's going where, where the puck is going. 386 00:30:23,223 --> 00:30:25,443 And it's also interesting. 387 00:30:25,443 --> 00:30:31,283 if you think about this from the terms of like what russia just said about the genius act and 388 00:30:31,283 --> 00:30:37,203 what the united states is planning to do with stable coins here's this offshore entity that's 389 00:30:37,203 --> 00:30:43,023 one of the largest crypto slash d5 players in the world saying hey you know what there's a stable 390 00:30:43,023 --> 00:30:47,343 coin that's not there's like the number three treasuries you can't get rugged you can't get 391 00:30:47,343 --> 00:30:53,063 shut off they are backed by short-term treasuries i thought it was completely algorithmic no there's 392 00:30:53,063 --> 00:30:59,083 There's short-term treasuries involved in the algorithm of probably buying, selling, supporting the thing. 393 00:30:59,703 --> 00:31:01,563 I'll find that exact quote in a second. 394 00:31:01,703 --> 00:31:02,543 I just saw it. 395 00:31:02,983 --> 00:31:10,223 But, you know, his company, YZI, manages $10 billion worth of assets spread across the crypto AI and healthcare. 396 00:31:10,223 --> 00:31:19,963 You know, he's kind of like this perpetual, I don't know if you want to call him grifter or like sort of entrepreneur in the space. 397 00:31:19,963 --> 00:31:24,223 I haven't, he's probably a pawn of China with how far this has gone. 398 00:31:24,363 --> 00:31:26,623 It seemed like he brought down FTX in a tweet. 399 00:31:27,683 --> 00:31:28,523 Yeah, that's true. 400 00:31:28,523 --> 00:31:30,083 He can move markets. 401 00:31:30,303 --> 00:31:32,563 He's still, the investors in this, 402 00:31:33,543 --> 00:31:37,023 Athena has also won investment support from trillion dollar asset manager 403 00:31:37,023 --> 00:31:39,043 firms Fidelity and Franklin Templeton. 404 00:31:40,043 --> 00:31:42,643 You know, so everyone's trying to get in on this stable coin market. 405 00:31:42,823 --> 00:31:46,463 This coin that is already algorithmically, whatever that means, 406 00:31:46,583 --> 00:31:48,663 is already prominent in the market space, whatever. 407 00:31:48,943 --> 00:31:49,063 Yeah. 408 00:31:49,163 --> 00:31:49,763 Let's move on. 409 00:31:49,763 --> 00:31:56,903 enough talking about cz all right uh let's see here it's your turn yeah sec opens crypto etf 410 00:31:56,903 --> 00:32:07,103 floodgates so no that's not it kraken co-ceos 400 million dollar whoops my whoopsie whoops uh 411 00:32:07,103 --> 00:32:13,623 is this bitcoin pizza competition i guess i mean bitcoin pizza was spending coins but that was a 412 00:32:13,623 --> 00:32:20,503 very expensive pizza this this guy just lost his coins he had a ton of coins on a laptop and then 413 00:32:20,503 --> 00:32:27,543 throw it away the ccocio of kraken yeah lost his coins well somebody was mining them back in the 414 00:32:27,543 --> 00:32:32,663 day like in 2009 and said hey bro here's my old laptop there's a bunch of bitcoin on it bitcoin 415 00:32:32,663 --> 00:32:39,463 didn't have a price back at the time and he he tossed it wow and i guess this is reminiscent of 416 00:32:39,463 --> 00:32:42,963 That other guy who's got the $1,000,000 laptop in England, I think. 417 00:32:42,963 --> 00:32:45,563 Yeah, the guy in England that his wife threw the laptop in the trash. 418 00:32:45,563 --> 00:32:46,263 Oh, that's a nightmare. 419 00:32:46,703 --> 00:32:46,903 Yeah. 420 00:32:47,383 --> 00:32:49,183 I kind of feel bad for the guy in a weird way. 421 00:32:49,203 --> 00:32:50,383 I think he's probably doing fine. 422 00:32:50,503 --> 00:32:50,803 Yeah. 423 00:32:51,743 --> 00:32:53,703 I hate, I hate, yeah. 424 00:32:54,103 --> 00:32:54,463 Okay. 425 00:32:55,323 --> 00:32:56,063 Larry, thank you. 426 00:32:56,063 --> 00:33:02,223 You brought up cryptocurrency and your personal belief around this or comments on this have certainly evolved over the years. 427 00:33:02,403 --> 00:33:03,023 It did. 428 00:33:03,023 --> 00:33:08,983 So tell me, tell our audience what you thought in the beginning, what you think today, what's BlackRock doing? 429 00:33:09,463 --> 00:33:26,643 I didn't believe in it. Actually, in the early years, it was a domain of money launders and thieves. Obviously, if you're in a corporation, you were held ransom with some type of code, you paid in Bitcoin. 430 00:33:27,003 --> 00:33:35,983 I can tell you this still happens today. Every six months, one of our clients' business, someone hacks it and wants Bitcoin as a ransom. 431 00:33:35,983 --> 00:33:43,203 So I said that. I said in 2017 on a panel sitting next to Jamie Dimon, who Jamie still today is against it. 432 00:33:43,343 --> 00:33:44,003 Very much so. 433 00:33:44,523 --> 00:33:55,283 But right around 2000, 2021, around COVID, when I had a little more time on my hand, I started talking to a person who is a huge believer in it. 434 00:33:55,743 --> 00:34:00,843 So it was me. You know, the one thing I was throughout my 49 year career, I'm still a student. 435 00:34:01,623 --> 00:34:03,183 And there are times I'm wrong. 436 00:34:03,183 --> 00:34:09,263 and so during this period of time i i brought in a bunch of different people talk to them 437 00:34:09,263 --> 00:34:18,483 learn more about it and i remember one time i met this one woman who is providing illegal jobs 438 00:34:18,483 --> 00:34:25,883 for afghani women women could not work you know with the taliban with the uh taliban in control 439 00:34:25,883 --> 00:34:32,463 of afghanistan women are prohibited to work and this woman was trying to find a way to empower 440 00:34:32,463 --> 00:34:38,223 and employ women in Afghanistan. The Taliban controls the banking system, so there's not a 441 00:34:38,223 --> 00:34:44,203 chance that she could pay them. But she started having them code. They were all coders. They were 442 00:34:44,203 --> 00:34:48,223 able to code for different companies out of Afghanistan, and they were being paid in Bitcoin. 443 00:34:49,003 --> 00:34:54,903 And so I started this journey of learning of different applications, and I studied why 444 00:34:54,903 --> 00:35:00,163 are people buying it. And much of it has to do with, and it gets back to our deficits, 445 00:35:00,163 --> 00:35:04,783 many people own bitcoin because they're frightened of the debasement of their 446 00:35:04,783 --> 00:35:10,463 of their financial system of their currency many people own bitcoin because they're frightened of 447 00:35:10,463 --> 00:35:17,523 their security 20 of all bitcoin holders are chinese okay then i don't you know the so you 448 00:35:17,523 --> 00:35:23,543 own it to me bitcoin is digital gold you own gold for the same reason but it's even even more 449 00:35:23,543 --> 00:35:27,863 transportable because it's all you have authenticated id and then you have all this stuff 450 00:35:27,863 --> 00:35:29,503 and you could move it around. 451 00:35:30,343 --> 00:35:35,523 And so around 2023, 2024, I became a real believer in it. 452 00:35:35,523 --> 00:35:37,923 And then we took a very active role. 453 00:35:38,263 --> 00:35:40,423 And we used to bring in all these different people 454 00:35:40,423 --> 00:35:43,523 who were big believers in it, 455 00:35:43,823 --> 00:35:47,403 like Michael Saylor from MicroStrategies. 456 00:35:47,623 --> 00:35:51,243 I mean, Michael came to our office when the stock was in the teens, 457 00:35:51,563 --> 00:35:54,383 but he was a huge believer in it, transformed his company. 458 00:35:54,503 --> 00:35:57,003 I mean, I could just say all these different people came in and talked. 459 00:35:57,003 --> 00:36:07,343 And then we became a leader in working with the SEC and trying to move forward in this. 460 00:36:07,703 --> 00:36:15,083 And fast forward now a little more than 18 months when we first started creating a Bitcoin ETF. 461 00:36:15,423 --> 00:36:18,263 Today, I bid is $86 billion. 462 00:36:21,743 --> 00:36:23,363 Wow, that's remarkable. 463 00:36:24,703 --> 00:36:25,343 Translation. 464 00:36:25,683 --> 00:36:26,663 I don't think... 465 00:36:26,663 --> 00:36:33,463 cat is out of the bag that was him giving sailor a lot of credit no it's not but i mean like and so 466 00:36:33,463 --> 00:36:40,103 i don't think that sailor from the inside moving you know or reshaping wall street but uh i thought 467 00:36:40,103 --> 00:36:44,663 that was remarkably sort of humble really at least on the learning part i thought that was all 468 00:36:44,663 --> 00:36:51,063 uh i think it's all bs i think the i think the reality is the cat's out of the bag retail fit 469 00:36:51,063 --> 00:36:55,063 is figuring out we said look to know people are interested in this thing they want to buy it 470 00:36:55,063 --> 00:37:00,183 chinese people are buying it china's buying it but he what he's saying is like he came in here 471 00:37:00,183 --> 00:37:04,423 when his stock was 15 bucks and now it's three grand i'm like what the is that about no no no 472 00:37:04,423 --> 00:37:09,783 that's some sort of like what he's getting is like oh i really learned that you know people 473 00:37:09,783 --> 00:37:15,063 were buying this because it's a basement and like i had to figure this thing out and like give me a 474 00:37:15,063 --> 00:37:20,903 break yeah no i'm not you're the head of blackrock you know that you're taking advantage of that 475 00:37:20,903 --> 00:37:26,343 system and you were happy 100 retail didn't understand the game i think was more to like 476 00:37:26,343 --> 00:37:30,503 he's like oh i don't understand this thing but there's lots of other people who want it for 477 00:37:30,503 --> 00:37:35,943 different reasons that's going up in price that's not it at all okay maybe not what it is is him 478 00:37:35,943 --> 00:37:43,463 saying you know what uh cat's out of the bag we we better get on this program and start selling 479 00:37:43,463 --> 00:37:48,343 this stuff because if not we're going to miss out yeah that was interesting i mean he's a really 480 00:37:48,343 --> 00:37:51,943 really good salesman then he's taking a different pitch than jamie it's interesting he says jamie 481 00:37:51,943 --> 00:37:56,043 dime is against him and that's jamie's public persona but they're authorized participants in 482 00:37:56,043 --> 00:38:02,063 the etf jamie's more authentic jamie's saying look at this disrupts the banking system this is a threat 483 00:38:02,063 --> 00:38:08,983 but jamie still makes money off of like the flows sure uh the picks and shovels but the long-term 484 00:38:08,983 --> 00:38:14,923 view and agenda of bitcoin is to take banks like that out of the way sure and so i think jamie's 485 00:38:14,923 --> 00:38:28,934 very honest that he doesn like the threat uh he like jamie gonna lie to your face I I I gonna give you a story yeah exactly exactly that great that cool okay all right uh SEC 486 00:38:28,934 --> 00:38:37,094 opens crypto ETF floodgates uh does does approving generic listing standards herald the US spot ETF 487 00:38:37,094 --> 00:38:45,894 yes and uh i'm gonna give everybody a warning on this one so this to me is wall street finally 488 00:38:45,894 --> 00:38:54,114 getting into the ico boom right like we all went through this in 2017 and you say ico yeah we see 489 00:38:54,114 --> 00:39:02,234 it end badly in 2019 uh everybody was it's not bitcoin it's blockchain and we're gonna have all 490 00:39:02,234 --> 00:39:06,974 these different coins and all these different opportunities and i'm not saying that nothing 491 00:39:06,974 --> 00:39:11,054 ever good is going to come out of crypto some good shit will come out of this in the long run 492 00:39:11,054 --> 00:39:17,994 but in the meantime this is wall street having missed their opportunity to legally participate 493 00:39:17,994 --> 00:39:24,514 in scraping profits out of retail so now they're going to get all these etfs approved you're going 494 00:39:24,514 --> 00:39:31,534 to have fart coin etf terrible dogecoin etf and all this garbage is coming to an etf near you so 495 00:39:31,534 --> 00:39:38,014 you can participate in speculative bs yeah that has no value the wall street will pump to you and 496 00:39:38,014 --> 00:39:43,374 sell to you it's just it's a terrible predatory we gotta move on that's horrible uh you can't have 497 00:39:43,374 --> 00:39:48,494 an etf on a non-hard asset that's it's kind of ridiculous all right let's move on bolivia uh 498 00:39:48,494 --> 00:39:56,814 unbans crypto and usdt surged bolivia's u-turn to embrace stable coins is this a pragmatic response 499 00:39:56,814 --> 00:40:04,414 to dollar shortages or a slippery slope for an economic an economy seeking stability sorry 500 00:40:05,774 --> 00:40:12,094 uh i think they're just trying to take advantage of uh all the activity in crypto and uh they're 501 00:40:12,094 --> 00:40:16,174 seeing that they're you know their population wants it yeah i mean look at these are these 502 00:40:16,174 --> 00:40:23,054 are the stats so after officially lifting its crypto ban on june of this year bolivia saw 503 00:40:23,054 --> 00:40:32,734 crypto payments jumped 630 in the first half of 2025 to 294 million now major automakers like 504 00:40:32,734 --> 00:40:40,814 toyota byd and yamaha are accepting usdt in bolivia yep mexico remains the region's crypto 505 00:40:40,814 --> 00:40:48,014 hub with bitcoin and usdt dominating cross-border remittances amid a 23 peso decline argentina facing 506 00:40:48,014 --> 00:40:52,174 uh inflation above 100 has also turned to stable coins as a hedge against financial 507 00:40:52,174 --> 00:40:58,814 about so so why do you if you have usdt yeah and your people are downloading the dollar on their 508 00:40:58,814 --> 00:41:06,094 apps and now they're starting to use this currency your currency is useless your central bank becomes 509 00:41:06,094 --> 00:41:11,134 useless you have economic activity you either come become an authoritarian regime and try and 510 00:41:11,134 --> 00:41:17,534 lock everybody down or you're going to become the general manager of the us dollar bank account for 511 00:41:17,534 --> 00:41:22,894 your little region is there even a third rail though like i mean so is it are those the two 512 00:41:22,894 --> 00:41:28,174 choices and and neither get your act i think if there's so then otherwise you have to be like 513 00:41:28,174 --> 00:41:33,294 financially responsible and run your country conservatively and have a strong currency 514 00:41:35,294 --> 00:41:41,054 that hasn't been like the agenda of most authoritarian rulers so we'll see it's it's 515 00:41:41,054 --> 00:41:45,374 going to be interesting i think that those are two good choices for the ruling class usually so 516 00:41:45,374 --> 00:41:47,514 All right. 517 00:41:47,854 --> 00:41:48,414 Ripple. 518 00:41:49,594 --> 00:41:50,074 Yeah. 519 00:41:50,594 --> 00:41:51,774 Which one are we doing here? 520 00:41:51,814 --> 00:41:51,994 Ripple? 521 00:41:52,134 --> 00:41:52,554 Ripple. 522 00:41:52,714 --> 00:41:53,594 Ripple and Franklin. 523 00:41:54,054 --> 00:41:55,034 Tokenize a money fund? 524 00:41:55,614 --> 00:41:56,774 No, you skipped over. 525 00:41:56,954 --> 00:41:57,194 All right. 526 00:41:57,254 --> 00:41:57,734 TradFi. 527 00:41:57,734 --> 00:41:59,634 Dig deep, deeper into crypto. 528 00:41:59,694 --> 00:42:00,294 Yes, sorry. 529 00:42:00,594 --> 00:42:02,854 With IG Group acquiring a crypto exchange, 530 00:42:02,954 --> 00:42:05,314 is traditional finance finally FOMOing in 531 00:42:05,314 --> 00:42:07,774 by sticking to the familiar terrain of exchanges? 532 00:42:08,434 --> 00:42:10,834 Yeah, I think this is going to be a big trend 533 00:42:10,834 --> 00:42:12,434 over the next few years. 534 00:42:12,434 --> 00:42:15,854 We saw NASDAQ invested in Gemini. 535 00:42:16,354 --> 00:42:20,894 We're seeing the SEC approved now. 536 00:42:22,134 --> 00:42:29,274 The NASDAQ and other U.S. exchanges get into offering spot Bitcoin. 537 00:42:30,214 --> 00:42:39,454 I know JP Morgan and E-Trade, I think, just did a deal with Zero Hash to help facilitate spot trading on the exchange. 538 00:42:39,454 --> 00:42:47,174 So this is all starting to flesh itself out to become a bunch of M&A activity in the future. 539 00:42:48,254 --> 00:43:01,534 NASDAQ reported recently they're going to go to 24-5 trading, which means they're going to be trading 24 hours a day, which means they're going to be using stable coins and T0 settlement on these trades. 540 00:43:01,534 --> 00:43:07,194 so i think a lot of the big exchanges in the united states are going to look a lot more like 541 00:43:07,194 --> 00:43:13,134 gemini and coinbase in the future and gemini and coinbase are going to start having tokenized 542 00:43:13,134 --> 00:43:19,814 securities and it's going to become one one big conglomerate as they start to merge and acquire 543 00:43:19,814 --> 00:43:24,614 and i think some of the offshore markets are going to uh offshore exchanges are going to get 544 00:43:24,614 --> 00:43:29,114 sucked into this as well yeah even morgan stanley i think invested in zero hash they're all looking 545 00:43:29,114 --> 00:43:35,914 together probably begins at 24 5 trading let's move on to the next one at least stricter our 546 00:43:35,914 --> 00:43:41,114 central bank wants stricter rules for multi-issue stable coins is this prudent risk management or 547 00:43:41,114 --> 00:43:47,994 start of the eu turf war over crypto oversight i i think it's both i i think they are very concerned 548 00:43:47,994 --> 00:43:54,554 about uh coins emanating from one domain and entering multiple domains and not adhering to 549 00:43:54,554 --> 00:44:00,394 local regulatory environments compliance and i think they're worried about uh value being 550 00:44:00,394 --> 00:44:05,514 transferred and maybe not returned when when warranted so a consumer pays for something they 551 00:44:05,514 --> 00:44:11,514 send 20 units of x and that's worth y and when they want their return they say i don't like this 552 00:44:11,514 --> 00:44:15,434 good or i didn't get it i want to return my money you know is that issue we're gonna send them back 553 00:44:15,434 --> 00:44:20,394 20 pesos yeah you know that's their concern i i think and then i think it's turf too yeah i think 554 00:44:20,394 --> 00:44:24,714 the big the big issue underlying all this especially for like the central bank of italy 555 00:44:25,434 --> 00:44:33,754 is that when you buy a euro stable coin what is it backed by because there is no federal debt in 556 00:44:33,754 --> 00:44:39,514 the european union there's the debt of all the different countries and so is it backed by just 557 00:44:39,514 --> 00:44:46,554 german debt because that's the cleanest dirty shirt or is it a balanced ratio of debt but this 558 00:44:46,554 --> 00:44:51,514 would be on like new coins right like tether they can they use tether in europe i mean wouldn't they 559 00:44:51,514 --> 00:44:57,114 be using this would be for i'm saying for a euro stable right right okay oh like a local like the 560 00:44:57,114 --> 00:45:02,474 tether euro sure yeah right so you know in the united states it's just oh well we just buy the 561 00:45:02,474 --> 00:45:08,154 treasury and that covers all 50 states it's all it's all federal debt they don't have that in europe 562 00:45:08,154 --> 00:45:13,514 the euro is set up uh where every country still runs their own debt and this currency floats on 563 00:45:13,514 --> 00:45:18,794 top of all this so what do you back it with right who's debt what ratios and i think that's where 564 00:45:18,794 --> 00:45:22,074 these central banks are like kind of going like whoa well they want to compete for the business 565 00:45:22,074 --> 00:45:27,194 too yeah i'm sure i'm sure the italy central bank would be like yeah it should be all our debt 566 00:45:27,194 --> 00:45:34,474 right just buy our debt right don't buy germany's back by italy right so this maybe this actually i 567 00:45:34,474 --> 00:45:40,394 think actually right if you start to play this out long term europe breaks apart the euro dissolves 568 00:45:40,394 --> 00:45:45,994 and you're going to have stable coin lira and stable coin deutschmark the stable all the 569 00:45:45,994 --> 00:45:50,474 currencies come back as stable going fractual is yeah it will fracture we'll see all right let's 570 00:45:50,474 --> 00:45:55,514 move on to the next one ripple and franklin tokenize a money fund our tokenized money market 571 00:45:55,514 --> 00:46:01,034 funds the start of real trad fi and crypto convergence it is we're going to see this uh 572 00:46:01,034 --> 00:46:05,674 this is kind of like what we talked about with eric you're going to see stable coins penetrate 573 00:46:05,674 --> 00:46:11,274 every part of the market so um ripple is doing this with franklin franklin's tokenized a bunch 574 00:46:11,274 --> 00:46:14,794 of other assets on blockchains but they've done this so that their ripple stable coin 575 00:46:15,434 --> 00:46:21,914 can be embedded into this tokenized money market fund that is run by frankel tepleton and you can 576 00:46:21,914 --> 00:46:26,874 earn yield so you can go back and forth between this money microphone with your stable coin 577 00:46:26,874 --> 00:46:31,914 uh that doesn't pay yield and then getting yield in the fund and you're going to start to see this 578 00:46:31,914 --> 00:46:36,874 all over you're also going to see stable coins going into the traditional exchanges right this 579 00:46:36,874 --> 00:46:44,394 is this is any way possible to implement the stable coin usage bypass the fed the treasury 580 00:46:44,394 --> 00:46:49,994 gets to sell those uh or the yeah treasury department gets to sell um treasury bills 581 00:46:49,994 --> 00:46:54,714 directly to the stable coin issuers uh and i think they're going to be looking for opportunities to 582 00:46:54,714 --> 00:47:01,434 embed this wherever possible yeah seems like it yep all right moving on okay the uk regulator 583 00:47:01,434 --> 00:47:09,834 floats crypto rule exemption the uk fca has proposed exempting registered crypto asset firms 584 00:47:09,834 --> 00:47:15,914 from certain principles for business advocates say it could make the uk more crypto friendly 585 00:47:16,394 --> 00:47:22,314 post brexit while critics warn against creating a two-tier regulatory regime that might weaken 586 00:47:22,314 --> 00:47:27,114 consumer protections what do you think this reminds me of the red flag laws when i think 587 00:47:27,114 --> 00:47:31,674 britain was kind of the forefront of pioneer of the automobile and i don't know if you heard this 588 00:47:31,674 --> 00:47:38,154 but the red flag laws come from they wanted people to walk in front of the cars with red flags to 589 00:47:38,154 --> 00:47:43,194 make sure that the car didn't hit pedestrians and it was all about like how to get used to this new 590 00:47:43,194 --> 00:47:48,874 technology was to protect the old sort of way of transit which was the people walking so cars never 591 00:47:48,874 --> 00:47:52,074 really got off the ground if you had to hire someone to walk in front of the car and i think 592 00:47:52,074 --> 00:47:56,554 someone in the car had to wave a flag it was something you know asinine like this and i think 593 00:47:56,554 --> 00:48:02,314 think that's how they've been with sort of uh bitcoin and wider crypto adoption if you will 594 00:48:02,314 --> 00:48:07,894 uh we won't hear but uh so uh but it's funny what they're now doing to play catch up so 595 00:48:07,894 --> 00:48:13,054 crypto firms and crypto firms in britain could be exempted from some some rules what kind of rules 596 00:48:13,054 --> 00:48:17,054 rules that would that ensure financial service companies act with integrity 597 00:48:17,054 --> 00:48:25,694 and in the interest of customers under new proposals so uh you know it's it's 598 00:48:25,694 --> 00:48:32,834 so in other words we're forked because the u.s is going hard on on crypto we're behind and we're 599 00:48:32,834 --> 00:48:37,534 screwed if we don't catch up rules are out yeah rules are out go for we gotta catch up we gotta 600 00:48:37,534 --> 00:48:41,574 catch up yeah so it's weird though it's like because you you put up all this stuff to kind 601 00:48:41,574 --> 00:48:45,174 of help like do all this thing that you think you're gonna do and then you're like scratch that 602 00:48:45,174 --> 00:48:51,494 to zero so really what this means is we're trying to protect our traditional banking models 603 00:48:52,054 --> 00:48:57,974 and our proprietary interests within central banking of all this financial system and now 604 00:48:57,974 --> 00:49:03,574 that we're losing the game all rules are off let's go get the biggest crypto players we can 605 00:49:04,054 --> 00:49:09,734 prohibit those companies we just we're protecting and say it you're losing right let's go 606 00:49:09,734 --> 00:49:17,414 go go go catch up yeah good luck good luck uh we won't we won't bite you uh all right let's move 607 00:49:17,414 --> 00:49:22,934 on to the next one india number one in adoption stuck on sidelines india leads the world in crypto 608 00:49:22,934 --> 00:49:29,334 adoption but keeps policy in a gray zone how long before pressure forces a decisive move one way or 609 00:49:29,334 --> 00:49:34,934 the other i i don't i don't know if india is feeling pressure to go one way or the other i 610 00:49:34,934 --> 00:49:39,894 I think India is trying to remain agnostic and neutral on many fronts. 611 00:49:40,394 --> 00:49:45,174 Stuck there in between Russia and China and the United States and everything that's going on. 612 00:49:45,954 --> 00:49:48,894 I think they'll stay in the gray area for some time. 613 00:49:49,554 --> 00:49:56,534 But as long as they're not ruling through enforcement like Gensler did in the United States, that adoption will continue. 614 00:49:56,874 --> 00:49:56,954 Right. 615 00:49:57,494 --> 00:50:01,814 And, you know, this is the programming and development center of the world. 616 00:50:01,814 --> 00:50:04,634 they have many as Balaji says 617 00:50:04,634 --> 00:50:06,714 many gods many currencies many 618 00:50:06,714 --> 00:50:08,774 beliefs it's the melting pot 619 00:50:08,774 --> 00:50:10,674 of cultures there so I think 620 00:50:10,674 --> 00:50:12,714 it will continue didn't they miss out though 621 00:50:12,714 --> 00:50:14,794 when like society chose gold 622 00:50:14,794 --> 00:50:16,354 over silver 623 00:50:16,354 --> 00:50:18,294 or the world did and you know 624 00:50:18,294 --> 00:50:20,754 they kind of sat there I think I mean gold's a big part 625 00:50:20,754 --> 00:50:21,794 of India's culture too 626 00:50:21,794 --> 00:50:24,534 I mean it's just everything 627 00:50:24,534 --> 00:50:26,694 I think India's very open 628 00:50:26,694 --> 00:50:27,194 to 629 00:50:27,194 --> 00:50:29,254 duplicity 630 00:50:29,254 --> 00:50:31,054 see how it plays out 631 00:50:31,854 --> 00:50:37,294 all right well this is bitcoin center number 21 live stream brought to you by by federal go bank 632 00:50:37,294 --> 00:50:43,694 yourself point of sale crypto wallet and the atm buy that bitcoin put it in self-custody 633 00:50:44,254 --> 00:50:49,694 francis we have any q a any chats uh any comments no nothing this week well if you're enjoying the 634 00:50:49,694 --> 00:50:55,294 show hit like and subscribe and we'll roll out here thank you all for watching my name is cedric 635 00:50:55,294 --> 00:50:55,794 This is Eric Youngleman. 636 00:50:55,934 --> 00:50:57,234 This is Paul Tarantino. 637 00:50:57,874 --> 00:50:59,434 See you next week, Tuesdays at 8 p.m.