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what's up oh we're good we're live yeah we are awesome hey guys uh this is a special episode

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cedric and i had a really rough week in amsterdam we are in prison uh but right now they're uh

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allowing us to smuggle some of this equipment in we're gonna get this show out to you live

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uh if we're shut down or uh something happens we are not suicidal live from alligator

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help your tricks uh yeah welcome to the bitcoin center podcast we're in between uber shifts with

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everything's sweet we're at the garage we're into the car to be gassed up better than mcdonald's i

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guess so they weren't hiring there this kind of yeah this kind of reminds me of this show taxi

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right if taxi had podcasts that'd be amazing that would be awesome dude so you went to bitcoin

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amsterdam yeah and i think it's cool just i want to hear what it was like boots on the ground

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because i think you know get together with some other bitcoiners and it's real real world stuff

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even what people talking about on stage or what like what was it like um i mean the the conferences

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are all fairly similar but i think the like it's it's nice because it was it was smaller like a

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few thousand people so more intimate uh you know you got more time to talk to people and find out

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what they're up to a highlight the highlight for me was african bitcoin corporation

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these got like africa is jumping to the future that like so you can imagine right here in the

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west we're constantly like oh you can't do that oh we have to do this reg we have to make sure we've

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got this license and this regulation and we're going to get in trouble if we don't do it just

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right and in africa this the sense i got from from their talk was that the population is so oppressed

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they have no banking they've been basically banking themselves with cash and you know human

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atms and and and and ladies you know building like their home little fortresses in their homes to

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bank themselves and and so when they got bitcoin they just they jumped right to it so they just

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jumped to the future regardless of regulation they don't really care what the government says they

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don't care what enforcement says because they're already super oppressed so like this is a better

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way to do it this is better for our population and they're just there they're just they're already

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there everything's peer-to-peer everything's priced in sats and i mean i was just so

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so excited to hear this like how what we always envisioned bitcoin would do which would change

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humanity and it is happening in africa rapidly uh one other account this is yeah this year's

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amsterdam was the worst conference event i've ever been to nothing but suits and chick oh yeah yeah

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They didn't have one fruitful conversation with a pleb

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with someone they didn't already know.

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Heard quote,

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I don't actually own Bitcoin a million times.

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Will never attend another Bitcoin magazine event.

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David Bailey responded,

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obviously I don't agree,

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but there was a time

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when having people attend a Bitcoin conference

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you don't actually own Bitcoin was the entire point.

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This is my comment on that.

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These conferences are geared towards

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educating people that don't know about Bitcoin

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it used to be retail it used to be plebs it used to be anarchist and libertarians now

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it's trad fi people yeah now it's wealthy people in suits now it's business owners

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so yeah that's who's in the audience now and they want to learn about i get what you're saying about

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the audience completely but i do think that there's maybe a lack of focus at the bitcoin

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magazine conference events uh it's not i mean you know it's just a shame i get messages like this

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from well-known maxis i couldn't make amsterdam this year i did see a video edit of some treasury

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bloke recommending zcash yeah i heard i didn't see that but i heard about that right so you know

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what i mean like it's not it's one thing to say hey we got non-bitcoiners in the audience yeah

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another thing to be like we're putting non-bitcoiners or people just really focusing maybe

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unstable coins yeah i didn't i didn't see those but i mean of course i didn't see every talk right

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you can't you can't attend them all and the best part is not and i'm selecting the ones that yeah

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i want to hear from which is great there should be a menu and yeah i do believe that we should have

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um open dialogue and debate ideas yeah you know but i did it is interesting i did attend uh the

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bitcoin for corporations day um and that was interesting because here you have a bunch of

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either like well-known bitcoin treasury companies and up-and-comers guys that are maybe just getting

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started like bike federal and other smaller companies and the entire hour and a half was

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about what are you going to be doing with your treasury how are you going to acquire more bitcoin

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with your treasury how are your strategies yeah not yeah it's digital assets it's kind of like okay

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sailor's doing his thing yeah there might be there'll be another strategy in these other

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jurisdictions but what are you going to do to set yourself apart and it it's all about you know well

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maybe i use my treasury as a as a desk to trade to generate yield on my bitcoin maybe i'm using my

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treasury to lend uh to borrow dollars that i then lend in the community which is african bitcoin

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corporation is doing that um they're they're borrowing dollars against their treasury to

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lend it to small and medium enterprises inside africa um and uh and others right like what kind

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of like by federal like we're building a circular economy around our bitcoin stack so can we're

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moving bitcoin in and out and taking spreads whether we're selling the bitcoin or buying

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the cash flows yep whether they're denominated no and that's the thing or in dollars and that's a

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shake you know has cash flows and good point i've started a bit it's all that's it's all about uh

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yeah what are you going to do with your treasury to earn more bitcoin and then what is your is your

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operating business synergistic with the treasury sure so that was uh i thought that was really cool

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um because it's not just about financialization anymore yeah but it's not about privacy

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and um decentralization and there were issues with mining pools maybe of course i selected

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that panel i went to that panel but there were that's tough right because as much as

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no no no no it was packed i'm saying those other topics might not sell what i'm getting at was

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the content coming across the stage like if you want privacy if you want sovereignty on bitcoin

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you need to go peer to peer that's where it's at if you're going to interact with the greater

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financial system you're not going to be private there's there's until you get to the position

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like africa until your economy fully collapses everybody's out of the banking system right the

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largest part of their economy is unbanked in africa so yeah they're fully peer-to-peer

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sovereign private nobody knows what they're doing but it was like that with cash before right so

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um you know i think the west at large is going to have a harder time obtaining crypto sovereignty

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and obtaining that peer-to-peer freedom network that we all wish for because we have such an

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advanced financial system um and and so you know it's going to be these smaller countries that

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jump into the future and show us the way yeah thank you all right well i think we should get

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into it let's do it show coming up this is bitcoin center brought to you by bite federal

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go bank yourself we got the crypto wallet we got the point of sale and the bitcoin atms

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boom

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Let's be real, right?

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Praising Telegram for launching a Bitcoin wallet.

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I've always felt like with Kayleigh.

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Bitcoin, this digital currency that's out there that people say, oh, it might be the next big thing.

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What do you think?

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I think it's rat poison.

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Bitcoin.

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You never heard them a few weeks ago?

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Now everybody's talking about them.

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But is it a currency?

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I don't know.

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Or is it more like a stock?

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Or is it a tulip bowl?

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Or is it just stupid?

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To me, it smells like Ponzi scheme and the greater pool theory, right?

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Do like five minutes of freaking research.

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Well, thanks for coming to my set talk.

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Yes.

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Don't buy shit, Clint.

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Oh, man, I didn't get that wrong.

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All right.

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Bitcoin's recent rally.

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Do you agree?

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Is crypto finally dead?

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Go to the next one.

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Matter of fact, they're kind of in the Ethernet.

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What are they?

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Some rumors that it's a Japanese guy, but they know that he's a fake name.

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It was a pseudonym.

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You're literally putting real money onto a system that we don't even know who created it.

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it will come to a bad ending is this the most exciting full run ever not for me no it's not

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welcome to bitcoin center the fast-paced show where the debate is the story

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dang dude we're gonna have to change our our spaceman suits for orange jumpsuits

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Yes, for McDonald's.

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All right.

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I think first of all, this is a great topic.

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Lawrence Lapard, he was opining on cash's optionality.

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The big print author tweets that holding cash in a crash is worth something, even with negative real yields.

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Wisdom or short-term bearish on Bitcoin?

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That's wisdom.

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Yeah.

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As far as I'm concerned.

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I mean, I've always thought that you want to have...

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Well, look, I'll just tell you, most of my savings are in Bitcoin.

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then physical gold buried in the backyard and then physical cash buried in the backyard and it's it's

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just the resilience factor of it right so it's like what what do you do if the uh i mean the

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bitcoin is the long play the gold is the uh i can preserve wealth and if there's no internet and no

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banks i mean i can do something with it right and then and then paper cash is it immediate

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currency crisis you need to get stuff done with somebody but also maybe if there's a crash in

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prices as prices and you could scoop up some real deals what he's really hinting at here yeah i think

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so yeah you're probably right i i guess i'm a little bit more of a what's the word i'm a little

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bit more of a prepper i think they got the prepper perspective on that one yeah i i think he's uh

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he's you know gold and metals are up a lot this year part of the subtweet was you know he sold

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some i think gold miners or some gold fund that is um you know two to five x this year or something

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like that i could be off these numbers but so he was moving to cash and then you know because he's

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yeah whatever so i think um i mean look at bear markets happen they happen they happen frequently

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so yeah all right let's move on to the next one uh yeah all right so this is about the fourth

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turning yeah and tyler durden uh warns that we're already deep in the fourth turning and uh the essay

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argued that the us's deep fourth turning crisis marked by institutional collapse rising global

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rivals and accelerating fragmentation a major reset looms by the early 2030s with bitcoin emerging

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as a parallel escape valve as trust and state money erodes so should bitcoin holders lock up

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for war or is this just high leverage doom talk i think there's i think bitcoiners and preppers

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have a lot in common uh look i think this was a great summary of you know the fourth turning thesis

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but this talks about this fourth turning is different fundamentally from all previous ones

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because of technology's role and the covert 19 accelerated this technological authoritarianism

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by decades. And, you know, so consider that central bank digital currency's agenda that

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that's advancing globally while most people remain just unaware. And we see that every time we talk

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on the show, crypto and stable coins all around the world in each country, in each region.

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And every fourth turning includes a monetary reset. So they kind of prognosticate on what

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could happen. There's three or four different outcomes that they kind of go over, but they

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really look at sort of the united states splitting apart yeah uh china and russia coming together

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yeah so this is i think it's a great piece really interesting and they talk about the moral

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bankruptcy sort of accelerates the fourth turnings institutional collapse yeah so no every everything

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i read about uh in this article i agree with um i i mean i run in my mind constantly run different

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scenarios about how this plays out so i'm going to sort of mentally prepared for every possibility

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but I agree with a lot

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of what they said. One thing I would

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say is that I don't think we're

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going to have World War III

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I think we're going to have lots of

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wars all over the world

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lots of smaller

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regional wars

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as we restructure the monetary system and trading partners and some people are getting left out or are being devalued and and trying to repartner so i think you going to see a lot of chaos

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a lot of different a lot of small pockets of volatility i think the larger war

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we're already experiencing the larger war is social media yeah it's messaging and the difference

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between what's on your wall and my wall your feed and my feed that that fifth generation warfare that

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that information warfare that's been ongoing and it's designed to create the fragmentation right

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and so um you know i think people are going to i i i think they're totally right i think the u.s

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does end up splitting up and becoming different regions um i don't know if they're perfectly

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accurate with the way it gets divided but um i mean this is why right this is why in the previous

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comment it was bitcoin gold and cash because you need uh you need optionality and that kind of chaos

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so let's talk about four turnings are generational psycho dramas where every archetype plays it's you

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know destined role but something's different this time the actors seem to be forgetting their line

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so the boomers are supposed to be sort of like the wisdom and they're supposed to be like hey

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everyone like let's fucking settle down and figure this out let's stop problems but they're just

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like me me me me me and then uh i think it's gen x that's probably us or just like how how do we

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deal with this yeah and just go homestead go home school bitcoin i know i was reading this i was

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like yeah you nailed my generation how do i just go off and solve this every man's an island yeah

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and then but the millennials the millennials are what worried them or the author he goes on saying

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half of them want socialism without understanding that socialism requires a social cohesion yeah so

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whether he's not even saying it works or doesn't work just kind of have to have a cause though

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and remember this generation doesn't really have the younger generations don't have something

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to unify or fight against right this pro the problem might be that you know it's too the

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crisis is abstract you know like covet was scary but not scary enough i mean at a 99 survival rate

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okay it's not like bro harbour but this is i think this is true of millennials in the west

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i don't think this is true of millennials around the world around the world meaning like so you

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take millennials in latin america yeah totally different mindset i work with some of them

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millennials from uh africa largest fastest growing population totally different mindset

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so what so that millennial generation may be the savior of the future like you know they could be

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the uh what is it the next uh uh great generation or i forget which which one they match up with

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but um they could really lead us into a prosperous future but they may not be the millennials of the

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west because yeah because they're they really got the millennials of the west really got

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the wrong end of the deal here i mean they were like promises just ripped out from under them

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left and right yeah the american dream gone buying a home gone get a 250 000 college education and

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you'll be paid high gone right let's take it like they really got screwed hard and i can understand

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the nihilism i think some of them are finding bitcoin and finding hope um i talked to bram

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kranstein about that today on on our podcast by federal and uh yeah i think it's divided right

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There are some nihilistic groups and there's some hopeful groups.

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So it's just going to be less cohesive here in the West, I think.

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Yeah. All eyes on Taiwan.

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All right. Let's move on to the next one.

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All right.

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Consumer spending can't grow mathematically unless stocks rise.

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And we highlighted that at the time. It was very controversial.

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My point is it's not controversial anymore.

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Everybody knows that everybody knows that A, the stock market is effectively the economy.

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B, they need it to fund the treasury market.

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and see, therefore, any dips are to be bought because you take stocks down 20%, 25%, which

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earlier in our careers was like, okay, it's kind of a nasty correction, but so what?

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Now, if stocks drop 20%, 25% and stay there for long enough, receipts are going to drop

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15% to 20% within three to four months, and we won't be able to afford to pay the entitlements

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plus the interest.

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Forget about defense.

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Forget about national parks, education, labor, all the other.

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We won't be able to pay entitlements and interest if your stocks fall 20%, 25% and stay there for a few months.

225
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So my point here is that everybody knows that everybody knows stocks can't fall long.

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And I think it's rapidly being understood.

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And we know mechanically the plumbing is in place or being put in place to keep this going and ameliorate any sell-offs.

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So to me, I think what stops it is more inflation and politics, political instability.

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And we're starting to see that, but it's not quite there enough.

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But I think the everybody knows, everybody knows portion of this is a dangerous point in time because it just means more and more the bar market's going to sell itself faster and faster to the Fed.

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And that's really good for gold.

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It's really good for Bitcoin.

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it's, it's, um, you know, I think it's great for the stock market in dollars. I think stocks will

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keep falling in gold terms and Bitcoin terms over time, but you know, what do you think he's

235
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describing there? Well, I follow Luke. So that that's not new messaging for Luke. Um, and I think

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secularly totally correct, like long-term totally correct. Uh, but I, I do feel like,

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you know don't put a line in the sand at 25 and buy it like i think that could also be translated to

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deeper sharper faster corrections um and i mean there's no better way to unite politicians there's

239
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no better way to get everybody aligned with uh the central bank than a good crisis right

240
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if you need to refinance nine trillion dollars next year you need interest you need to fix or

241
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make housing more affordable you need to uh get the democrats and the republicans to all of a

242
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agree on something nothing better than i'm than down 40 i mean covid was a great example of that

243
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right um and it and it doesn't have to be a covid like event it could just be the end of the business

244
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cycle. This is what Larry's getting at.

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I mean, he's waiting for the big print, but we could get a big

246
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crash first. Yeah, absolutely.

247
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Yeah, and the optionality there and survival is

248
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going to be important in liquidity. Yes,

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100%. So

250
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Luke says this over and over and over again.

251
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Don't take leverage.

252
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Just be

253
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long-term accumulating gold and Bitcoin.

254
00:20:49,824 --> 00:20:50,844
Right. Good advice.

255
00:20:50,844 --> 00:20:53,004
Yeah. All right. This one's juicy.

256
00:20:53,144 --> 00:20:53,404
Let's go.

257
00:20:54,484 --> 00:20:56,884
If you knew who owned Bitcoin

258
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or who started Bitcoin,

259
00:20:58,124 --> 00:21:00,664
and you had Bitcoin, you couldn't sleep at night.

260
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I know.

261
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100%.

262
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And when the real founder of Bitcoin comes out,

263
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it is my humble opinion, and there's nothing humble about me,

264
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Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.

265
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One day.

266
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And a microsecond.

267
00:21:28,124 --> 00:21:34,104
I mean, obviously the conflation there is that Epstein is Satoshi.

268
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Do you think so?

269
00:21:35,524 --> 00:21:36,884
No, I don't think so.

270
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But I think also, you know, but I think the conflation meaning with the latest news.

271
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I don't know what that guy's.

272
00:21:43,544 --> 00:21:44,604
Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about.

273
00:21:44,684 --> 00:21:47,064
I mean, that clip is not directly related to.

274
00:21:47,724 --> 00:21:48,944
No, it's not directly related.

275
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It's just conflated.

276
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Sure.

277
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It's being recycled, right?

278
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

279
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but i think the epstein thing you know i i think here this is more slander and sort of like um a

280
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boogeyman and there's nothing in the epstein files there's nothing in it no are we still talking about

281
00:22:04,504 --> 00:22:08,824
well there's interest here there isn't why are we talking epstein in bitcoin no but it's like look

282
00:22:08,824 --> 00:22:13,464
epstein drinks water and breathes air doesn't mean that those things are bad i just made a smart ass

283
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no i get it but what what it does for me though what i want to explore is you know do you think

284
00:22:19,464 --> 00:22:28,584
that wait do we even explain that this is because no jeffrey epstein's emails suggest that some of

285
00:22:28,584 --> 00:22:34,824
his money financed bitcoin core and there's a notion of either it was like 850 000 or around

286
00:22:34,824 --> 00:22:40,424
seven and a half million and some of it might have went through leon black going to mit but in the

287
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emails it's clear mit is trying to um fund core developers doesn't seem nefarious on on top right

288
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and of course mit is at the cutting edge of technology they got the mit license which is

289
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open source right but what i do think it's interesting and i'm sure and epstein fund funded

290
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lots of scientific projects but he was very clever about yes sure i mean he was interested in some

291
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obscure cutting edge technology yep so um and i think he was also involved in probably high-end

292
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money laundering schemes and tax evasion which all crypto can help but what i think is interesting is

293
00:23:18,264 --> 00:23:25,304
did he one is the comments about gavin so gavin is clever so in my mind gavin's captured

294
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and they like what gavin's doing gavin goes on to other projects he's a big blocker so i think that

295
00:23:32,344 --> 00:23:37,304
they did it seems like nefarious interests want bigger blocks in my mind yeah right that's what

296
00:23:37,304 --> 00:23:42,344
i get from this right and then you would also think that they'd want to steer it towards lack

297
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of privacy right public blockchain right so if you think if the government started it to well

298
00:23:49,864 --> 00:23:55,144
to bridge their way to stable coins in a panopticon i think that's a reach i think it is a reach but

299
00:23:55,144 --> 00:23:59,064
i think that's a reach i'm not saying that they start because i do i do agree that like the

300
00:23:59,064 --> 00:24:04,984
government is playing the government started it right i do believe that like the people within

301
00:24:05,864 --> 00:24:14,504
the dod darpa started as much as they can but i also believe that it got out it got open sourced

302
00:24:15,544 --> 00:24:21,944
and through that open sourcing process i don't yeah but i think that's a real like oh let's open

303
00:24:21,944 --> 00:24:27,144
source us so we get stable coins that argument has never i think the argument there i'm not trying to

304
00:24:27,144 --> 00:24:31,464
make the argument that these are mine i'm trying to yeah no no i get it i know i know that it was

305
00:24:31,464 --> 00:24:36,504
open source yeah you're playing devil's advocate uh so that the community can be built around it

306
00:24:36,504 --> 00:24:41,544
they could iron out the kinks they could kind of build a fervor i mean stay making here anarcho

307
00:24:41,544 --> 00:24:46,904
libertarianism but stable coins are so like like this is not an ushering in of stable coins because

308
00:24:46,904 --> 00:24:54,424
stable coins are so much different and then then bitcoin it's a totally different i agree with you

309
00:24:54,424 --> 00:24:59,624
i don't think they're similar stable coins are e-cash i mean stable coins are but but and they're

310
00:24:59,624 --> 00:25:05,244
there with Panopticon, but you need, well, I think now stable coins rely on the narrative

311
00:25:05,244 --> 00:25:07,884
of Bitcoin existing and not failing.

312
00:25:09,324 --> 00:25:13,484
So I think if Bitcoin goes to zero, I don't think the stable coin.

313
00:25:13,844 --> 00:25:15,144
Oh, no, stable coins will be around.

314
00:25:15,484 --> 00:25:16,604
Even if Bitcoin goes to zero.

315
00:25:16,684 --> 00:25:17,364
Oh, 100%.

316
00:25:17,364 --> 00:25:17,764
Sure.

317
00:25:17,904 --> 00:25:23,624
At this point, but I mean, I'm thinking that it kind of helped bridge the idea of crypto,

318
00:25:24,064 --> 00:25:27,964
even though stable coins are not actual crypto currencies.

319
00:25:27,964 --> 00:25:33,784
and i think the only connection i see there is that people start using you know the lightning

320
00:25:33,784 --> 00:25:39,584
network for cheap fast remittances and payments and they say boy gee it would be great if we could

321
00:25:39,584 --> 00:25:44,604
do this without paying capital gains tax right right can we have all the benefits of the speed

322
00:25:44,604 --> 00:25:49,904
and the settlement and non-private yes right and you d and you centralize it as much as possible

323
00:25:49,904 --> 00:25:54,524
around bitcoin lightning is not even bitcoin right i mean it's it's not main chain bitcoin

324
00:25:54,524 --> 00:25:59,644
so it's totally different and and so i think it's it's it's i'm saying if i was the government i

325
00:25:59,644 --> 00:26:05,324
created this thing and it got out or i let it out then i would do everything i could around it to

326
00:26:05,324 --> 00:26:10,844
go back to chombs e-cash right let's say e-cash wasn't shut down because it was living on one

327
00:26:10,844 --> 00:26:18,124
server and because it threatened the government if e-cash came out in 1986 or whenever and

328
00:26:18,124 --> 00:26:25,644
everyone went like whoa hey the government likes this thing we can now send dollars digitally through

329
00:26:25,644 --> 00:26:31,724
through the internet instant settlement for free right people would have been like yeah let's

330
00:26:31,724 --> 00:26:41,804
do that so to me it it shows you that the government came into stable coins after the

331
00:26:41,804 --> 00:26:46,284
cat had been let out of the bag and they had no other option but like we got to go with this

332
00:26:46,924 --> 00:26:53,484
we're dying the debt-based dollar system is dying this is a way for us to sell treasuries

333
00:26:54,204 --> 00:27:00,124
right so instead of fighting it let's just adopt it that and and so i i look at this as like the

334
00:27:00,124 --> 00:27:06,524
cat got out of the bag people start using it countries start adopting it individuals are

335
00:27:06,524 --> 00:27:13,404
getting wealthy with it now we got to try and get some of the sausage back in the casing

336
00:27:13,404 --> 00:27:16,364
so that we don't completely die

337
00:27:16,364 --> 00:27:17,824
and we don't get completely replaced,

338
00:27:17,824 --> 00:27:19,964
meaning the government and the institutions.

339
00:27:20,724 --> 00:27:23,244
And you pile that on top of the pressure

340
00:27:23,244 --> 00:27:24,244
of the fourth turning,

341
00:27:24,664 --> 00:27:26,744
collapsing the value of these institutions,

342
00:27:27,044 --> 00:27:29,744
they're desperate to get the sausage back in, right?

343
00:27:29,804 --> 00:27:32,784
Like, holy smokes, this shit's out there.

344
00:27:33,084 --> 00:27:35,304
And then you see what Africa's doing

345
00:27:35,304 --> 00:27:37,864
and El Salvador's doing

346
00:27:37,864 --> 00:27:39,424
and the Czech Republic now saying,

347
00:27:39,524 --> 00:27:40,324
well, you know, I mean,

348
00:27:40,344 --> 00:27:54,928
we going to test a little of this Bitcoin stuff To me this uh but getting back to the epstein thing epstein financing a bunch of stuff that they thought you know that we gotta be on top of all this and maybe

349
00:27:54,928 --> 00:27:58,888
get in and control it i'm not saying epstein financed bitcoin right i'm saying he tried to

350
00:27:58,888 --> 00:28:05,988
steer development yeah and that towards bigger blocks possibly and whatever would be beneficial

351
00:28:05,988 --> 00:28:11,208
to people who don't sure so they could control it they from money yeah right or just a control

352
00:28:11,208 --> 00:28:15,828
aspects of it or try to right not even succeed and this is the thing about the way bitcoin is

353
00:28:15,828 --> 00:28:25,068
constructed if we ever get to that point there will be a hard fork to a more sovereign network

354
00:28:25,068 --> 00:28:32,688
again fair enough right but we need something that that is used as money right not just savings

355
00:28:32,688 --> 00:28:35,968
yeah i mean it could be store value first but it has to be used as money it started as black

356
00:28:35,968 --> 00:28:40,828
market money we have to improve it could go back to black market money and yeah and you know that's

357
00:28:40,828 --> 00:28:48,468
why we have zcash oh shut up let's move on hit like and subscribe this bitcoin center brought

358
00:28:48,468 --> 00:28:59,728
you by bite federal bitcoin atms uh self-custody uh run a node and stamp your seed phrase uh jack

359
00:28:59,728 --> 00:29:04,868
is this number five jack mallor yeah it's bitcoin as the system's liquidity smoke alarm

360
00:29:04,868 --> 00:29:12,108
jack argues gold's breakout shows fiat is failing while bitcoin's sell-off reveals deeper cracks

361
00:29:12,108 --> 00:29:18,868
does bitcoin's volatility truly expose hidden stresses that legacy markets can or won't reflect

362
00:29:18,868 --> 00:29:25,808
what's your thoughts i think he nailed it with that comment absolutely nailed it this is why

363
00:29:25,808 --> 00:29:28,928
you've seen such a discrepancy between gold and Bitcoin right now.

364
00:29:29,828 --> 00:29:34,488
Because when central banks are understanding

365
00:29:34,488 --> 00:29:38,248
the reset is coming, fiat is dying,

366
00:29:38,248 --> 00:29:42,128
and they're going to move money to an asset that they can control

367
00:29:42,128 --> 00:29:43,708
and that they understand.

368
00:29:44,468 --> 00:29:47,268
That they know is going to be the collateral

369
00:29:47,268 --> 00:29:50,788
for the restructuring of global trade.

370
00:29:52,028 --> 00:29:55,368
Now, so that's why we're seeing such a massive boom in gold.

371
00:29:55,368 --> 00:29:59,108
while simultaneously Bitcoin, which is tied to global liquidity,

372
00:29:59,848 --> 00:30:03,648
is saying, yo, liquidity is drying up.

373
00:30:04,248 --> 00:30:08,128
Repo market's blowing, starting to boil over.

374
00:30:09,208 --> 00:30:11,468
The business cycle's rolling over.

375
00:30:11,948 --> 00:30:14,448
Unemployment, deflation could be coming.

376
00:30:15,008 --> 00:30:16,888
This is not good for global liquidity.

377
00:30:17,808 --> 00:30:20,028
And Bitcoin's going like, yeah, we're not going there

378
00:30:20,028 --> 00:30:22,388
because this is not looking good.

379
00:30:22,388 --> 00:30:31,308
Bitcoin is that canary in the coal mine that the only free market that tells you what's really happening in the economy long before it hits the stock market.

380
00:30:31,908 --> 00:30:36,488
So I think that was so much wisdom in two or three lines that he wrote.

381
00:30:36,668 --> 00:30:37,748
This is like, well done.

382
00:30:38,948 --> 00:30:40,628
So that's my opinion.

383
00:30:41,008 --> 00:30:41,288
All right.

384
00:30:41,968 --> 00:30:43,208
Jack, sometimes spot on.

385
00:30:43,288 --> 00:30:44,428
Let's move on to the lightning round.

386
00:30:44,608 --> 00:30:45,608
This is Bitcoin.

387
00:30:45,608 --> 00:30:46,068
Bitcoin says what?

388
00:30:46,068 --> 00:30:56,228
all right kenya legalizes crypto payments with kenya's parliament passing a virtual

389
00:30:56,228 --> 00:31:02,708
asset service provider has africa's fintech frontier finally legalized bitcoin and commerce

390
00:31:02,708 --> 00:31:10,468
or will heavy regulation snuff out innovation uh by both uh i i think that this is just

391
00:31:10,468 --> 00:31:14,608
Just everyone around the world is paving the way for crypto payments.

392
00:31:15,188 --> 00:31:17,668
Again, I think this has very little to do with Bitcoin

393
00:31:17,668 --> 00:31:24,508
and more to just regulatory headwinds kind of knocked down and clearing the path.

394
00:31:24,808 --> 00:31:26,768
I don't think we should spend a lot of time on this.

395
00:31:26,768 --> 00:31:27,708
No, we don't need to.

396
00:31:27,848 --> 00:31:29,388
I think we've talked about Africa a lot.

397
00:31:29,388 --> 00:31:32,828
I think this is Kenya's parliament getting on the program

398
00:31:32,828 --> 00:31:35,068
with whatever other nation is doing.

399
00:31:35,588 --> 00:31:37,008
But I don't think their people give a shit.

400
00:31:37,288 --> 00:31:38,248
No, I don't think.

401
00:31:38,488 --> 00:31:38,768
Next.

402
00:31:40,468 --> 00:31:48,188
all right cash app enables bitcoin payments can blocks cash app turn bitcoin into everyday money

403
00:31:48,188 --> 00:31:52,728
by letting users pay merchants with bitcoin over the lightning network i mean they're pushing it

404
00:31:52,728 --> 00:31:57,308
hard man they got the advertising going they're they're they're telling you know trying to get

405
00:31:57,308 --> 00:32:04,348
um capital gains out of the payment processing of bitcoin paying cash no no not the stable coin

406
00:32:04,348 --> 00:32:09,128
stuff that they implemented i believe that oh you all explain it but i thought i yeah no i mean

407
00:32:09,128 --> 00:32:11,628
there's two things they're doing you're right right so they're implementing they're going to

408
00:32:11,628 --> 00:32:16,128
allow stable coins on their platform which you know so they're going to pay in bitcoin by using

409
00:32:16,128 --> 00:32:22,828
cash yourself and they'll convert it to bitcoin for you pay the merchant bitcoin oh they will

410
00:32:22,828 --> 00:32:27,148
that's what i i heard okay i saw on a tweet okay i didn't see that part interesting that isn't

411
00:32:27,148 --> 00:32:32,908
you're not using your bitcoin that's interesting that's very right so the if yeah and it makes

412
00:32:32,908 --> 00:32:38,028
sense so you could pay in dollars and the merchant could choose to accept bitcoin and it lets you

413
00:32:38,028 --> 00:32:41,868
know the merchants request so you're you're not you don't have a capital gain and the merchant

414
00:32:41,868 --> 00:32:46,108
doesn't either right that's smart yeah i didn't know that they were doing that's really cool

415
00:32:46,108 --> 00:32:51,068
think that's all they would allow because i think right now by allowing people to and i don't know

416
00:32:51,068 --> 00:32:56,168
what they're allowed exactly allowing and how it's treated i mean you can use their platform to i mean

417
00:32:56,168 --> 00:33:02,228
i use it to pay i used it in amsterdam to buy got it so let's say you went on it uh your cash app

418
00:33:02,228 --> 00:33:07,868
five years ago right and bought ten dollars in bitcoin and it's now worth a hundred bucks

419
00:33:07,868 --> 00:33:09,568
and you go buy the coffee.

420
00:33:09,768 --> 00:33:09,988
Yeah.

421
00:33:10,308 --> 00:33:12,688
Or you buy two sweatshirts in Amsterdam for $100.

422
00:33:13,588 --> 00:33:14,668
Do you own $90?

423
00:33:15,688 --> 00:33:17,388
Do you have $90 in capital gains?

424
00:33:17,588 --> 00:33:17,788
Yeah.

425
00:33:18,028 --> 00:33:18,968
I mean, yes.

426
00:33:19,008 --> 00:33:20,028
Are you going to get a 10-9?

427
00:33:20,808 --> 00:33:23,288
They are going to give you the 10-9.

428
00:33:23,288 --> 00:33:25,228
Well, if you bought it on their platform, right?

429
00:33:25,248 --> 00:33:27,488
Or either way, you'll get it with zero cost basis.

430
00:33:27,888 --> 00:33:30,088
So you'll pay them probably 100%.

431
00:33:30,088 --> 00:33:32,408
Yeah, you'll have to show your cost basis, right?

432
00:33:32,408 --> 00:33:33,628
If you sent them, you're big.

433
00:33:33,648 --> 00:33:34,988
So I think they're, in my opinion,

434
00:33:35,248 --> 00:33:36,848
it sounds like they're walking a lot of people into a nightmare.

435
00:33:37,868 --> 00:33:42,288
Well, yes and no, except that if you use it properly, right?

436
00:33:42,328 --> 00:33:54,068
Like the way I use Bitcoin payments on any wallet is I buy it on the wallet, spend it on the wallet, and refill.

437
00:33:54,748 --> 00:33:55,448
No, I get what you're saying.

438
00:33:55,568 --> 00:33:56,988
So you kind of have like this wallet has...

439
00:33:56,988 --> 00:33:57,748
I keep it in a walled garden.

440
00:33:57,748 --> 00:33:58,508
I get what you mean.

441
00:33:58,628 --> 00:33:58,768
Yeah.

442
00:33:58,768 --> 00:34:03,568
I just don't know if everyone's doing that and they don't know what the implications are.

443
00:34:03,568 --> 00:34:05,328
Well, if you're not doing it, you should do it that way.

444
00:34:05,328 --> 00:34:08,768
To me, it's very interesting that Cash App's rolling this out.

445
00:34:09,008 --> 00:34:09,228
Yeah.

446
00:34:09,308 --> 00:34:10,728
Kind of nonchalantly like that.

447
00:34:11,308 --> 00:34:16,048
Because does it speak to them knowing that the government's not going to tax all this?

448
00:34:16,488 --> 00:34:17,008
Yeah, I don't know.

449
00:34:17,008 --> 00:34:22,048
Or are they going to be like, we're going to try to manage all this back-end nightmare of the boarding?

450
00:34:22,048 --> 00:34:27,368
Well, 1099DA or DE, 1099Ds are coming.

451
00:34:27,748 --> 00:34:28,888
No, I get that they're coming.

452
00:34:29,028 --> 00:34:29,168
Yeah.

453
00:34:29,168 --> 00:34:32,688
But now we're encouraging much more.

454
00:34:32,688 --> 00:34:37,348
like a lot of people are going to be i didn't know i'm going to owe this much tax yeah i bought a

455
00:34:37,348 --> 00:34:42,488
couple sweatshirts i i have the same yeah i have the same intuition or same question when i heard

456
00:34:42,488 --> 00:34:47,208
and it'll be interesting when people start buying this jack did jack know that like this is coming

457
00:34:47,208 --> 00:34:51,648
yeah that's what i'm getting at right but at the same time right he's he's running a massive

458
00:34:51,648 --> 00:34:57,968
advertising campaign uh trying to get people on it and they're no to try and tell the government

459
00:34:57,968 --> 00:35:00,028
to stop taxing crypto payments.

460
00:35:00,688 --> 00:35:02,288
So I don't know if that's all PR.

461
00:35:02,328 --> 00:35:03,688
Which to me is the holy grail.

462
00:35:04,108 --> 00:35:04,988
Oh, that'd be amazing.

463
00:35:05,128 --> 00:35:05,248
Yeah.

464
00:35:05,588 --> 00:35:05,848
Yes.

465
00:35:05,888 --> 00:35:07,248
All right, let's move on to the next one here.

466
00:35:08,628 --> 00:35:09,588
Lean miners.

467
00:35:10,368 --> 00:35:12,168
So Marathon CEO warns,

468
00:35:12,168 --> 00:35:14,628
next halving will only allow miners

469
00:35:14,628 --> 00:35:18,188
with subsidized power or ownership stakes to survive.

470
00:35:18,848 --> 00:35:21,248
Is mining now a capital intensive club

471
00:35:21,248 --> 00:35:23,308
that undermines decentralization

472
00:35:23,308 --> 00:35:26,648
or a Darwinian filter that leaves only the fittest?

473
00:35:26,648 --> 00:35:32,308
oh man it's darwinian mining sucks i mine it's darwinian it's hard man and but this kind of

474
00:35:32,308 --> 00:35:36,668
way the market's been the sideways it's hard but the hash rate rising dramatically

475
00:35:36,668 --> 00:35:43,568
it's hard if you were going to make a business out of it yeah for an individual for an individual

476
00:35:43,568 --> 00:35:52,128
to get the 100 uh expense sure yeah the depreciation in in the same year yeah that's a win

477
00:35:52,128 --> 00:35:55,628
and then you get your Bitcoin over time.

478
00:35:55,748 --> 00:35:57,328
You get that money back over time.

479
00:35:58,288 --> 00:35:59,128
And that's pretty...

480
00:36:00,068 --> 00:36:01,048
There are ways to work.

481
00:36:01,048 --> 00:36:03,388
That kind of supports mining decentralization.

482
00:36:03,568 --> 00:36:06,848
That really incentivized me to buy some miners for myself.

483
00:36:06,848 --> 00:36:08,388
But margins are slim if you're looking to do it

484
00:36:08,388 --> 00:36:10,648
on sort of a profit margin basis.

485
00:36:10,808 --> 00:36:11,128
And I also think...

486
00:36:11,128 --> 00:36:12,928
Yes, trying to make a business out of it.

487
00:36:12,928 --> 00:36:13,608
I think that's what he's saying.

488
00:36:13,728 --> 00:36:14,908
I think I agree 100%.

489
00:36:14,908 --> 00:36:15,788
I think in the future,

490
00:36:17,448 --> 00:36:18,068
it's going to be...

491
00:36:18,068 --> 00:36:19,928
Everyone's going to be mining at a loss

492
00:36:19,928 --> 00:36:20,828
and it's going to be strategic.

493
00:36:20,828 --> 00:36:22,228
like countries

494
00:36:22,228 --> 00:36:24,648
we're mining at a loss

495
00:36:24,648 --> 00:36:27,268
or a negligible gain because we want to guarantee

496
00:36:27,268 --> 00:36:28,588
that our transactions get fooled

497
00:36:28,588 --> 00:36:31,488
I fully anticipate that countries will subsidize

498
00:36:31,488 --> 00:36:33,088
the power in order to be able to

499
00:36:33,088 --> 00:36:34,648
transact freely on the network

500
00:36:34,648 --> 00:36:36,668
when and how they want

501
00:36:36,668 --> 00:36:38,688
yeah it's all coming

502
00:36:38,688 --> 00:36:41,128
yeah I've talked to a couple organizations

503
00:36:41,128 --> 00:36:41,948
that are building that

504
00:36:41,948 --> 00:36:43,208
let's move on to the next one

505
00:36:43,208 --> 00:36:46,348
alright last gasp liquidity

506
00:36:46,348 --> 00:36:49,228
credit bubble bulletin warns markets are in a liquidity

507
00:36:49,228 --> 00:36:50,348
fueled froth

508
00:36:50,828 --> 00:36:54,748
If Bitcoin ETFs rode that tide, will a Fed pivot send them crashing?

509
00:36:55,968 --> 00:36:57,468
A Fed pivot send them crashing?

510
00:36:57,828 --> 00:36:58,028
Yeah.

511
00:36:58,468 --> 00:36:59,188
What's a Fed pivot?

512
00:36:59,828 --> 00:37:00,548
Higher rates?

513
00:37:00,708 --> 00:37:01,628
Lower rates, I guess.

514
00:37:02,268 --> 00:37:07,088
I mean, credit bubble bath, bubble bulletin warns markets are in liquidity, fueled Roth Roth.

515
00:37:07,088 --> 00:37:08,068
Yes, yes.

516
00:37:08,288 --> 00:37:08,728
Agreed.

517
00:37:09,348 --> 00:37:10,888
I guess pivot maybe to higher.

518
00:37:10,888 --> 00:37:10,928
Sure.

519
00:37:14,108 --> 00:37:14,708
Okay.

520
00:37:14,948 --> 00:37:21,368
So yeah, this is, I think there's really nothing new here

521
00:37:21,368 --> 00:37:25,288
other than the fact that we've got a crunch in liquidity.

522
00:37:25,568 --> 00:37:27,008
You're seeing it in the repo markets.

523
00:37:27,768 --> 00:37:33,328
You're seeing hints that we're going to stop quantitative tightening.

524
00:37:33,328 --> 00:37:39,128
But it's like, is the loosening of credit, is the lowering of rates,

525
00:37:39,128 --> 00:37:45,988
is the increase in liquidity going to come fast enough to prevent a crash?

526
00:37:47,608 --> 00:37:48,968
I don't think so.

527
00:37:49,128 --> 00:37:51,188
I think the crash is coming.

528
00:37:51,348 --> 00:37:51,808
I don't know.

529
00:37:51,948 --> 00:37:56,668
I think the crash is exactly what the powers that be need.

530
00:37:57,888 --> 00:37:59,308
It gets two things.

531
00:38:00,028 --> 00:38:03,448
They get to buy your Bitcoin cheap because you'll panic and sell it.

532
00:38:03,448 --> 00:38:09,988
they get to when the financial system breaks and they lower interest rates and they pump liquidity

533
00:38:09,988 --> 00:38:15,528
they all of a sudden unite all these people that hate the administration or angry with the

534
00:38:15,528 --> 00:38:23,488
democrats or angry with the republicans go we're all getting money now and then they get to you

535
00:38:23,488 --> 00:38:30,688
know knock people out of their houses knock people out of their cars create this financial drama

536
00:38:30,688 --> 00:38:37,788
which says big daddy government like help me please that's exactly what they want yeah right

537
00:38:37,788 --> 00:38:42,668
and and peak anti-government right even a lot of the republicans that were

538
00:38:42,668 --> 00:38:49,688
hardcore mager are now going like oh my god like what did i do right and this kind of peak chaos

539
00:38:49,688 --> 00:38:58,028
there's nothing better than a than a crisis for for more control and more power and to get

540
00:38:58,028 --> 00:39:04,988
everybody back on your side right if if the markets are down 40 and people are losing their

541
00:39:04,988 --> 00:39:08,888
jobs do you think they're going to be talking about the epstein list do you think the epstein

542
00:39:08,888 --> 00:39:15,108
list is uh a nothing burger no i think it's an everything no i mean from trump's perspective

543
00:39:15,108 --> 00:39:20,568
like i mean trump that there's nothing in these latest uh files that are gonna kind of or do you

544
00:39:20,568 --> 00:39:25,288
think it's something like they want to get trump out so they can install advance uh do you know

545
00:39:25,288 --> 00:39:29,828
mean like is this the take is this really going to take down trump that i mean is this something

546
00:39:29,828 --> 00:39:34,348
that's going to take him down by christmas or you know midterms that's and then get an on-elect

547
00:39:34,348 --> 00:39:39,768
advance in get a few years in so that he could run with a lot more credibility and and there's

548
00:39:39,768 --> 00:39:43,808
some saying some are speculating like maybe they're not getting everything they want out of

549
00:39:43,808 --> 00:39:49,068
trump maybe they're getting a lot or some but like maybe and maybe he's just not with it on some of

550
00:39:49,068 --> 00:39:53,788
the more technological things they want to do around surveillance.

551
00:39:54,328 --> 00:39:56,288
Okay, yeah, I hadn't thought about that.

552
00:39:56,388 --> 00:39:58,168
That does make some sense to me.

553
00:39:58,388 --> 00:39:59,968
It absolutely makes sense to me.

554
00:40:00,808 --> 00:40:06,728
But I think the Epstein list, documents, emails, et cetera,

555
00:40:07,408 --> 00:40:12,488
will take out most of the government.

556
00:40:13,148 --> 00:40:15,368
I don't think you get into that.

557
00:40:15,588 --> 00:40:18,608
I think it's a very small percentage of the people that get to that level

558
00:40:18,608 --> 00:40:25,848
of the government without being uh compromised captured and corrupt yeah i agree so the there

559
00:40:25,848 --> 00:40:33,368
it's good it would be detrimental to the entire political sphere and there'd be a massive vacuum

560
00:40:33,368 --> 00:40:42,448
to fill and that yeah jd vance and peter teal and elon about that yeah all right let's move on

561
00:40:42,448 --> 00:40:49,568
all right regulatory gridlock the u.s government shutdown has frozen crypto legislation

562
00:40:49,568 --> 00:40:57,508
and sec actions could this involuntary pause be a blessing delaying harsh rules or will the

563
00:40:57,508 --> 00:41:04,348
backlog unleash a fire hose of regulation once congress returns yeah i mean who knows what they're

564
00:41:04,348 --> 00:41:09,488
gonna do i think it's a blessing and when they can't get things done i'm happier right so uh i

565
00:41:09,488 --> 00:41:12,188
I think they want to pave the way for a lot of things.

566
00:41:12,708 --> 00:41:15,528
It sounds like they're going to be running out of time

567
00:41:15,528 --> 00:41:17,548
to do everything they wanted to do in this session

568
00:41:17,548 --> 00:41:18,848
because of the shutdown.

569
00:41:19,508 --> 00:41:21,128
But I don't know if it's bad or good.

570
00:41:21,208 --> 00:41:22,168
Most of it's usually bad.

571
00:41:22,368 --> 00:41:23,308
How much of it is good?

572
00:41:23,548 --> 00:41:23,788
Yeah.

573
00:41:25,308 --> 00:41:26,708
Let's move on to the next one.

574
00:41:27,968 --> 00:41:30,088
Hit like and subscribe if you're enjoying the show.

575
00:41:30,208 --> 00:41:32,488
This is Bitcoin Center brought to you by Byte Federal.

576
00:41:33,488 --> 00:41:34,428
Go bank yourself.

577
00:41:34,908 --> 00:41:48,332
Bitcoin risk on correlation Is this a bad sign Again Bitcoin has crashed in lockstep with stocks if cryptos correlation to equities remains near like near 1 can it still claim to be digital

578
00:41:48,332 --> 00:41:54,332
gold or merely the latest high beta gadget of the bull market is this really what we want to see um

579
00:41:55,612 --> 00:42:01,532
it's i don't think there's any way to get around that when you have institutionalized bitcoin

580
00:42:01,532 --> 00:42:05,612
because i think the people that have been buying bitcoin the corporations that have been

581
00:42:06,172 --> 00:42:12,812
buying the high net worth individuals the etf holders etc the treasury company buyers they're

582
00:42:12,812 --> 00:42:18,012
they're not diamond hands right so so yes we are going to correlate with the overall market

583
00:42:19,052 --> 00:42:25,292
but what you have to understand as is a real bitcoiner holding their own coins you hold

584
00:42:25,292 --> 00:42:32,512
something that is a bearer instrument that is nobody is not nobody has an iou on it you have

585
00:42:32,512 --> 00:42:42,652
custody of it so if the financial system went to zero bitcoin would have greater purchasing power

586
00:42:42,652 --> 00:42:47,172
and that invite it might go down to be worth one dollar a coin it would still have greater

587
00:42:47,172 --> 00:42:55,572
purchasing power over financialized assets that you don't it might make sense like yeah you're

588
00:42:55,572 --> 00:42:59,732
like you're going to maintain the spread yeah right so like bitcoin at a hundred thousand

589
00:42:59,732 --> 00:43:06,932
eighty nine thousand whatever it got there because it's priced in dollars if the dollar went to zero

590
00:43:06,932 --> 00:43:12,372
bitcoin is still one to zero like you're still maintaining extreme purchasing power because it's

591
00:43:12,372 --> 00:43:15,192
It's a scarce asset and you have custody of it.

592
00:43:16,132 --> 00:43:17,452
And it's no one's IOU.

593
00:43:18,912 --> 00:43:21,932
You put it in an ETF, you put it in a treasury company,

594
00:43:22,112 --> 00:43:25,992
you give custody to Coinbase, it's going to zero.

595
00:43:26,552 --> 00:43:28,772
But if you have self-custody, you have the one,

596
00:43:28,972 --> 00:43:29,632
they have the zero.

597
00:43:30,232 --> 00:43:33,732
So it is digital gold.

598
00:43:34,172 --> 00:43:35,332
It is true value.

599
00:43:35,332 --> 00:43:38,812
And it is uncorrelated in regards to the way

600
00:43:38,812 --> 00:43:40,692
real assets work in the world.

601
00:43:40,692 --> 00:43:43,512
but it's priced in fiat, so it's going to correlate.

602
00:43:44,352 --> 00:43:45,112
This is like therapy.

603
00:43:45,612 --> 00:43:46,932
Cool. I'm glad I could help.

604
00:43:46,932 --> 00:43:47,992
I mean, it's going to help me.

605
00:43:49,652 --> 00:43:51,812
All right. Let's go on to the next one.

606
00:43:54,832 --> 00:43:56,152
I think you're asking me.

607
00:43:56,172 --> 00:43:56,692
Oh, sorry.

608
00:43:56,972 --> 00:43:57,752
No, it's not good.

609
00:43:58,432 --> 00:43:59,232
Hodler sell-off.

610
00:43:59,332 --> 00:44:03,872
Okay, long-term hodlers dumped a record of 815,000 BTC in 30 days.

611
00:44:03,892 --> 00:44:05,092
That's why we need therapy, man.

612
00:44:05,092 --> 00:44:05,832
It's called dumping.

613
00:44:06,252 --> 00:44:09,272
Could this be the first time the OGs cause a bear market?

614
00:44:10,692 --> 00:44:11,932
I don't think so.

615
00:44:11,972 --> 00:44:14,912
And I don't think this is anything different than what we've seen in the past.

616
00:44:14,992 --> 00:44:20,212
I think the multiples are higher because there's more inflation and the dollar has been more debased.

617
00:44:20,672 --> 00:44:23,492
I think it's about the same amount of people probably exiting out of the same amount of coins.

618
00:44:24,412 --> 00:44:26,652
And along the same amount of time frame.

619
00:44:26,792 --> 00:44:28,972
Something comes to mind to me in Amsterdam.

620
00:44:30,112 --> 00:44:30,512
Carrot.

621
00:44:31,332 --> 00:44:32,352
Oh, gosh.

622
00:44:33,152 --> 00:44:34,492
I'm going to forget the names of the other.

623
00:44:34,632 --> 00:44:35,412
I'm sorry, guys.

624
00:44:35,812 --> 00:44:37,212
There were three great.

625
00:44:37,852 --> 00:44:39,212
It's hard to forget Carrot, right?

626
00:44:39,212 --> 00:44:43,852
holding the sign in front of his face but there are three great on-chain analysts and they were

627
00:44:43,852 --> 00:44:50,492
showing uh you know charts and data sure and in previous cycles like we've all we've sold off

628
00:44:50,492 --> 00:44:56,572
similar amounts of coins in all the cycles but in previous cycles they came like all at once

629
00:44:57,292 --> 00:45:04,012
like they burned the top yeah right and just crushed it yeah this cycle it's just been a

630
00:45:04,012 --> 00:45:11,932
is consistent just drip on top of the market more professional liquidation might be distribution and

631
00:45:11,932 --> 00:45:18,012
strategic yeah and it's probably in some ways right they're not they're not moving it to this

632
00:45:18,012 --> 00:45:22,252
like binance and just fat fingering it right because they're like oh i've got

633
00:45:22,252 --> 00:45:26,572
100 million in coins i'm gonna hire an otc desk to bleed this into the market

634
00:45:27,212 --> 00:45:32,652
um and you could just see it in the chart of sellers and it was like oh wow like here you have

635
00:45:32,652 --> 00:45:37,052
this bull market that's chopping and you have this this selling this chopping right underneath it

636
00:45:37,612 --> 00:45:43,452
and i'd also be curious it was really illustrated that even distribution is from singular wallets

637
00:45:43,452 --> 00:45:50,172
meaning this wallet is spitting out a steady stream versus its coins are being stalled steady

638
00:45:50,172 --> 00:45:56,572
yeah and it's more like people are just reaching their natural life events and breaking points

639
00:45:56,572 --> 00:46:02,652
through this cycle you know yeah organically right and people just independently coming to

640
00:46:02,652 --> 00:46:07,292
the same conclusion that it's time for them to diversify but this is the best thing for bitcoin

641
00:46:07,292 --> 00:46:13,212
i agree for these coins to move to the next set of diamond hands yeah i agree so yep and people

642
00:46:13,212 --> 00:46:18,012
grow up and move on and i don't mean grow up meaning they they lose the cause but they they

643
00:46:18,012 --> 00:46:24,332
have their life changes yeah this has always been off and you know this has been a uh critique of

644
00:46:24,332 --> 00:46:29,772
bitcoin for a long time that there was a small group of people that hold a held a ton of coins

645
00:46:29,772 --> 00:46:34,332
well that is that that critique i wonder how much yeah slowly i wonder how much further we are

646
00:46:34,892 --> 00:46:39,932
on that curve yeah it's hard to say i don't know somebody could do that analysis i guess but you

647
00:46:39,932 --> 00:46:44,972
know just sort of looking at the average size of wallets totally now compared right some sort of

648
00:46:44,972 --> 00:46:50,812
distribution from now to the past yeah see how much we've changed sure lightning network growth

649
00:46:50,812 --> 00:46:57,952
lightning usage is surging with monthly transactions up 266 year over year and fees

650
00:46:57,952 --> 00:47:02,872
are plunging is lightning network finally proving it can scale for bitcoin for everyday payments

651
00:47:02,872 --> 00:47:09,792
yes i don't agree i agree i don't i think so you think so yeah um you don't think there

652
00:47:09,792 --> 00:47:16,112
lightning is not going to be b2b still and more like oh i'm not saying it's like i think i don't

653
00:47:16,112 --> 00:47:21,712
yeah well i mean there are some interesting i don't think it's the final there's interesting

654
00:47:21,712 --> 00:47:32,112
decentralized lightning i don't know if protocol is the right word but software that i've seen in

655
00:47:32,112 --> 00:47:39,072
communicating with the other vendors um but yeah right so right now it is it is mostly centralized

656
00:47:39,072 --> 00:47:44,952
the big nodes are doing lots of volume there was a bitcoin treasury company on a panel that i spoke

657
00:47:44,952 --> 00:47:53,032
at that um was generating about a 14 yield canadian annually canadian uh god i don't know

658
00:47:53,992 --> 00:48:00,552
i think we did a quick review on that yeah company they've run a test experiment over like 60 days

659
00:48:00,552 --> 00:48:05,752
on their lightning node they put in like 300 coins yeah i'm sorry i'm not remembering the

660
00:48:05,752 --> 00:48:09,432
specific name of the company but it was it was very interesting they're they're they're doing a

661
00:48:09,432 --> 00:48:14,792
lot of volume they're they're generating a great return um what do you think the increase in demand

662
00:48:14,792 --> 00:48:16,132
for all these volumes.

663
00:48:16,552 --> 00:48:18,252
Where do you think this volume is coming from?

664
00:48:19,072 --> 00:48:21,352
Is it coming from because Cash App is now using...

665
00:48:21,352 --> 00:48:22,132
I mean, yeah.

666
00:48:22,392 --> 00:48:23,452
So for instance,

667
00:48:23,632 --> 00:48:26,672
I bought Bitcoin today on the dip.

668
00:48:27,452 --> 00:48:28,732
Every one of those transactions

669
00:48:28,732 --> 00:48:29,932
was a lightning transaction.

670
00:48:30,272 --> 00:48:30,832
Tell me how.

671
00:48:30,892 --> 00:48:31,972
How is that a lightning transaction?

672
00:48:32,632 --> 00:48:35,012
Because it was a small payment instantly.

673
00:48:35,232 --> 00:48:37,272
No, but where did you use?

674
00:48:37,572 --> 00:48:38,352
A ByteWallet.

675
00:48:38,612 --> 00:48:39,472
Okay, the ByteWallet.

676
00:48:39,612 --> 00:48:40,532
Because you know that...

677
00:48:40,532 --> 00:48:42,192
Yeah, I mean, I know that's the lightning, right?

678
00:48:42,292 --> 00:48:44,372
And I just bang, bang, instant.

679
00:48:44,792 --> 00:48:45,212
Got it.

680
00:48:47,572 --> 00:48:48,272
Very cool.

681
00:48:48,632 --> 00:48:49,432
Strike is lightning.

682
00:48:49,832 --> 00:48:51,092
Cash app has got lightning.

683
00:48:52,892 --> 00:48:55,472
I mean, our ATMs has got lightning.

684
00:48:55,872 --> 00:49:00,152
Like, lightning's everywhere because, I mean, our POS system's got lightning.

685
00:49:00,632 --> 00:49:04,892
Everything's got lightning because it's just fast, efficient, low cost.

686
00:49:06,472 --> 00:49:06,912
Right.

687
00:49:07,032 --> 00:49:09,392
I don't think lightning's going to be like Visa in this example.

688
00:49:09,572 --> 00:49:10,392
I still think it's going to be like...

689
00:49:10,392 --> 00:49:14,512
I think Visa is going to adopt.

690
00:49:14,732 --> 00:49:15,132
Lightning.

691
00:49:15,552 --> 00:49:18,352
I think you'll even see stable coins running over Lightning.

692
00:49:18,852 --> 00:49:22,172
Right, but people are going to use some other layer on top of Lightning

693
00:49:22,172 --> 00:49:26,272
to interact with that credit card or that thing.

694
00:49:26,432 --> 00:49:28,892
That card's not going to run directly on Lightning.

695
00:49:28,892 --> 00:49:33,232
Your credit, the credit that MasterCard or Visa gives you

696
00:49:33,232 --> 00:49:38,452
is going to move stable coins over Lightning.

697
00:49:40,392 --> 00:49:45,032
because that way it can reach everybody in the world

698
00:49:45,032 --> 00:49:49,352
yeah okay is that your brain ticking yeah

699
00:49:49,352 --> 00:49:55,672
the coin the coin's clicking all right the swiss stable going law

700
00:49:55,672 --> 00:50:03,632
switzerland's uh government just launched a consultation to add a add crypto to financial

701
00:50:03,632 --> 00:50:09,132
laws especially stable coins does this reaffirm switzerland's crypto friendly stance or show that

702
00:50:09,132 --> 00:50:16,332
even crypto haven regulators are tightening the screws both i mean again stable coins are i don't

703
00:50:16,332 --> 00:50:22,092
know how friendly they're gonna be or how private uh privacy friendly stuff is gonna be in spanish

704
00:50:22,092 --> 00:50:26,252
but they're they're gonna approach the days of the swiss bank accounts died a long time ago

705
00:50:26,252 --> 00:50:32,252
private bank accounts died a long time ago bitcoin is the real swiss space it's on you can't stop the

706
00:50:32,252 --> 00:50:37,852
transaction but i wouldn't say it's private and that's what we need to improve yes i think yeah so

707
00:50:37,852 --> 00:50:43,692
So stable coins in Switzerland, stable coins are going to be everywhere.

708
00:50:45,212 --> 00:50:50,252
And if you're going to have to, if you're Switzerland and you have to do payment processing

709
00:50:50,252 --> 00:50:53,432
with the rest of the world, you have to do exchange with the rest of the world.

710
00:50:53,692 --> 00:50:55,412
It's like, okay, I guess we're moving to stable coins.

711
00:50:55,832 --> 00:50:59,532
If we're going to do stable coins, I guess we need a regulation and a law around it.

712
00:50:59,992 --> 00:51:01,512
So this is just one of those, right?

713
00:51:01,512 --> 00:51:02,712
It's just everybody catching up.

714
00:51:03,012 --> 00:51:04,832
Same with Kenya, right?

715
00:51:05,512 --> 00:51:06,652
Russia is going to do it.

716
00:51:06,652 --> 00:51:09,652
China's going to come up with the Yuan stablecoin.

717
00:51:10,872 --> 00:51:12,272
Some will be CBDCs.

718
00:51:12,472 --> 00:51:13,692
Some will be stablecoins.

719
00:51:14,432 --> 00:51:15,432
They'll be exchangeable.

720
00:51:16,252 --> 00:51:17,132
Do you know Aaron Day?

721
00:51:17,412 --> 00:51:18,212
Have you heard of Aaron Day?

722
00:51:18,832 --> 00:51:19,852
We'll be talking to him soon.

723
00:51:20,332 --> 00:51:21,612
He's sort of a technologist.

724
00:51:21,812 --> 00:51:23,712
He kind of looks at sort of, you know,

725
00:51:23,732 --> 00:51:25,212
how AI is impacting the future.

726
00:51:25,272 --> 00:51:27,992
But he's also, I think he's kind of a Roger Ver

727
00:51:27,992 --> 00:51:30,412
sort of disciple or, I don't know if disciple's the word,

728
00:51:30,412 --> 00:51:31,012
but supporter.

729
00:51:31,432 --> 00:51:32,532
I don't think it's a bad thing,

730
00:51:32,632 --> 00:51:34,432
but also maybe a big blocker.

731
00:51:34,732 --> 00:51:35,572
But it'll be interesting.

732
00:51:35,572 --> 00:51:39,932
I'm kind of curious to kind of have that conversation again,

733
00:51:40,292 --> 00:51:45,352
just for kind of making sure that I'm not missing anything.

734
00:51:45,912 --> 00:51:47,172
Maybe, you know, I just thought of something.

735
00:51:47,292 --> 00:51:52,752
Maybe Roger really is pro small blocks,

736
00:51:52,912 --> 00:51:57,352
but pushed the big block in order to be able to liquidate,

737
00:51:57,412 --> 00:52:01,572
because he's spending all his Bitcoin cash to be able to liquidate the big blockers

738
00:52:01,572 --> 00:52:04,852
while he holds on to his small block Bitcoin.

739
00:52:05,572 --> 00:52:05,932
I don't know.

740
00:52:06,012 --> 00:52:09,292
I think that he really believed that big blocks were better for making

741
00:52:09,292 --> 00:52:09,952
Bitcoin money.

742
00:52:10,132 --> 00:52:10,272
Yeah.

743
00:52:11,052 --> 00:52:13,372
And I think that there's something to,

744
00:52:13,832 --> 00:52:14,532
I'm not saying he's right,

745
00:52:14,672 --> 00:52:15,292
but I think that there's.

746
00:52:15,292 --> 00:52:16,912
Do you think he sold Bitcoin?

747
00:52:17,432 --> 00:52:17,892
All of it?

748
00:52:17,932 --> 00:52:18,092
No,

749
00:52:18,392 --> 00:52:18,932
not at all.

750
00:52:19,592 --> 00:52:20,212
I don't.

751
00:52:20,252 --> 00:52:22,972
I think he held it and just spent Bitcoin cash because it was cheaper to

752
00:52:22,972 --> 00:52:23,192
spend.

753
00:52:23,552 --> 00:52:25,392
I think he spent some Bitcoin probably finance.

754
00:52:25,392 --> 00:52:25,712
I mean,

755
00:52:25,732 --> 00:52:27,252
if he had a hundred thousand coins,

756
00:52:27,432 --> 00:52:27,872
he could have.

757
00:52:28,152 --> 00:52:28,612
I mean,

758
00:52:28,632 --> 00:52:28,852
he just,

759
00:52:29,132 --> 00:52:29,252
I mean,

760
00:52:29,372 --> 00:52:32,232
50,000 coins and still have 50,000 coins.

761
00:52:33,012 --> 00:52:35,072
And he could have done that over 10 years.

762
00:52:35,072 --> 00:52:35,972
I wish he'd come back.

763
00:52:36,572 --> 00:52:37,152
He's back.

764
00:52:37,552 --> 00:52:38,132
No, I mean like.

765
00:52:39,472 --> 00:52:40,532
I would talk to Roger.

766
00:52:40,532 --> 00:52:41,492
I would love to talk to him.

767
00:52:41,912 --> 00:52:42,072
Yeah.

768
00:52:42,192 --> 00:52:43,192
I want to hear more.

769
00:52:43,692 --> 00:52:47,432
I mean, Roger was one of the best orange pillars ever.

770
00:52:47,652 --> 00:52:48,012
Yeah.

771
00:52:48,632 --> 00:52:49,372
The Bitcoin Jesus.

772
00:52:49,372 --> 00:52:50,292
So I really want to.

773
00:52:50,572 --> 00:52:52,592
I want to understand if it's megalomania.

774
00:52:52,712 --> 00:52:53,392
I mean, I was like.

775
00:52:53,392 --> 00:52:54,772
And sort of always off the reserve.

776
00:52:54,932 --> 00:52:55,292
All in.

777
00:52:55,972 --> 00:52:58,192
Or what the genuine belief is.

778
00:52:58,572 --> 00:53:01,952
And maybe big blocks are still wrong, but maybe there's some.

779
00:53:02,312 --> 00:53:03,452
I want to hear about the money.

780
00:53:03,652 --> 00:53:04,472
The Bitcoin is money.

781
00:53:04,852 --> 00:53:05,032
Yeah.

782
00:53:05,072 --> 00:53:06,812
Bitcoin as medium exchange.

783
00:53:07,632 --> 00:53:10,632
Yeah, and he really understood Bitcoin very well

784
00:53:10,632 --> 00:53:14,072
from the perspective of how it would impact governments,

785
00:53:14,592 --> 00:53:18,272
impact humanity, stop the forever wars.

786
00:53:18,412 --> 00:53:21,392
I mean, I really learned a lot from him.

787
00:53:22,472 --> 00:53:24,152
I've never seen anyone try to use Bitcoin.

788
00:53:24,152 --> 00:53:27,152
It just went off the rails so rapidly with the big block deal.

789
00:53:28,012 --> 00:53:32,052
And at the end of the day, I got rid of all my Bcash

790
00:53:32,052 --> 00:53:33,552
and went all in on Bitcoin.

791
00:53:33,552 --> 00:53:41,872
and um i wasn't around early enough like started started uh believing in in just bitcoin and that

792
00:53:41,872 --> 00:53:46,992
that i the big blocks were wrong because of this centralization impact um with mining so

793
00:53:47,952 --> 00:53:52,832
um but we haven't but bitcoin hasn't gotten everything right since yeah yeah right i mean

794
00:53:52,832 --> 00:53:58,032
we can't segue it and tackle i know where so so i think there's things to kind of read the tea

795
00:53:58,032 --> 00:54:03,472
leaves there and try to yep see what we're not seeing yeah 100 all right moving on micro strategy

796
00:54:03,472 --> 00:54:10,992
faces mnap drop with micro strategies mnap slipping low one and fears of forced liquidation rising

797
00:54:11,952 --> 00:54:16,752
even as taylor doubles down and buying more bitcoin does this mark the first real stress test

798
00:54:16,752 --> 00:54:22,432
of the leveraged bitcoin treasury model in a volatile market yeah it does i i don't i don't

799
00:54:22,432 --> 00:54:27,792
think i don't think i put i don't think they went through a lot of stress in 2020 yeah yeah exactly

800
00:54:27,792 --> 00:54:32,992
yeah but this is a much um under a much bigger microscope so i think the the bigger

801
00:54:32,992 --> 00:54:37,552
while calling a lot more attention to themselves i think strategy is the peg the other day

802
00:54:37,552 --> 00:54:46,992
strategy i think is going to be fine okay but i think whatever this pullback slash recession is

803
00:54:46,992 --> 00:54:56,992
that we're in in bitcoin you will know it's over when you start to see second tier third tier

804
00:54:56,992 --> 00:55:05,792
bitcoin treasury companies going private getting bought at a deep discount um collapsing you name

805
00:55:05,792 --> 00:55:11,952
it right probably everything is second tier like you can't you cannot build companies that are

806
00:55:11,952 --> 00:55:21,312
dependent on bitcoin price going up so do you think the days of like later than m1 mnav are over

807
00:55:21,312 --> 00:55:26,832
forever do you think 1.8 or two or no i think you're going to see companies to develop can

808
00:55:26,832 --> 00:55:28,572
Can you make the argument, do you make,

809
00:55:28,572 --> 00:55:31,232
what about the argument that these Bitcoin treasury companies

810
00:55:31,232 --> 00:55:32,952
of course should be worth less

811
00:55:32,976 --> 00:55:35,356
an ETF because you have management risk.

812
00:55:35,556 --> 00:55:37,736
You have execution risk.

813
00:55:37,736 --> 00:55:39,036
Yeah, they should trade like a close.

814
00:55:39,036 --> 00:55:40,716
If they have no business model,

815
00:55:41,376 --> 00:55:42,116
they have no business.

816
00:55:42,236 --> 00:55:44,756
You have marketing, stock options, executives.

817
00:55:44,756 --> 00:55:47,016
If their only business model is holding Bitcoin,

818
00:55:47,256 --> 00:55:49,916
then they are tied to the price of Bitcoin.

819
00:55:50,856 --> 00:55:51,296
Period.

820
00:55:52,456 --> 00:55:54,196
And so then they're going to trade

821
00:55:54,196 --> 00:55:57,336
like a closed-end Bitcoin ETF, like GBTC,

822
00:55:57,636 --> 00:56:01,296
that I think at one time had like a 70% discount.

823
00:56:01,536 --> 00:56:02,336
Is that right?

824
00:56:02,976 --> 00:56:06,256
don't know if it got that deep at least 50. at least yeah it was a pretty significant discount

825
00:56:06,256 --> 00:56:11,856
it went from a positive premium so maybe it was maybe it was a when you include the premium negative

826
00:56:11,856 --> 00:56:18,256
like but it was up like 30 40 right so maybe that's what i remembered was like a 70 drop

827
00:56:18,256 --> 00:56:23,616
that that fund was designed yeah so so i think you're gonna see you know i think that will be

828
00:56:23,616 --> 00:56:40,688
really the what will ring the bell on the end of this uh pullback yeah all right well that our show for tonight this is brought to you by uh Bitcoin Center number 29 Tuesdays at 8 p at Like and Subscribe Maybe we have some questions or comments in the chat

829
00:56:40,688 --> 00:56:41,288
Please.

830
00:56:43,248 --> 00:56:45,968
No questions, unfortunately.

831
00:56:46,828 --> 00:56:47,348
Bueller.

832
00:56:47,848 --> 00:56:48,148
Bueller.

833
00:56:49,308 --> 00:56:50,028
All right.

834
00:56:50,108 --> 00:56:53,468
Send your letters to Alligator Alcatraz.

835
00:56:53,588 --> 00:56:54,728
Hopefully we'll receive them.

836
00:56:55,768 --> 00:56:57,108
You get to make one phone call a day.

837
00:56:57,108 --> 00:57:02,708
We'll get out of our prison here and back into a studio shortly.

838
00:57:05,008 --> 00:57:07,588
And again, Cedric is not suicidal.

839
00:57:09,408 --> 00:57:10,288
Good to know.

840
00:57:10,448 --> 00:57:11,168
Yeah, it's good to know.

841
00:57:11,288 --> 00:57:13,308
Thanks for letting me know what I'm thinking.

842
00:57:13,468 --> 00:57:13,808
All right.

843
00:57:15,548 --> 00:57:16,868
This is Bitcoin Center.

844
00:57:16,968 --> 00:57:18,108
My name is Cedric Youngelman.

845
00:57:19,348 --> 00:57:20,988
I'm Paul Tarantino.

846
00:57:22,508 --> 00:57:23,008
Good night.

847
00:57:23,108 --> 00:57:23,688
Don't bank yourself.

848
00:57:23,928 --> 00:57:24,388
Have a great night.

849
00:57:24,388 --> 00:57:24,908
Peace out.

850
00:57:27,108 --> 00:57:33,748
SX2