good afternoon bitcoiners welcome back to bitcoin center live stream number 43
hello hello welcome yeah what's up thanks for joining us um the world's on fire you were on
fire here a little bit before we started you had a lot a lot of thoughts going on about what's
happening in the world today yeah we're at one of those moments where you're like i i just don't know
what not what to believe but which version there's a lot of good sounding theories out there everyone's
monitoring the situation i don't mean to make light of it i mean if you just if you look if you
look at all the different theories and ideas and you make the assumption that there's a lot uh that
is right in all those ideas and a lot that's wrong there's some there's some somewhere there's the
truth and the overlap of all of them um might might be the better way to look at it but
you know we we were talking earlier about um if you frame the global conflict right now from
the lens of the way you understand the mafia and the mob to work and the way they fight for power
internally um as as a lay that kind of architecture over the global power struggle that we're seeing
today things seem to be making a little more sense right if you're trying to if if the if the
the boss of XYZ state is trying to become the head boss of all the mafias,
then you're really looking at an internal warfare.
And a lot of people are going to get hurt in that warfare.
And that seems to be, you know, essentially what we're,
what's happening in the world today.
So then is the whole personal goal to just not be collateral damage?
And do you even have to pay attention to what's going on?
You just like, let me,
as an individual,
As an individual, yeah.
I think that's all you can do.
Like, how are you going to participate in this?
Well, if this is...
I mean, the power projection that we're talking about
is beyond the scope of any individual.
Maybe if you're trying to make decisions as an individual
for yourself or your family,
like where maybe you should stay or not stay.
Yeah, for sure.
You are trying to read what's going on.
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting
how many people fled the European Union to the UAE.
for tax reasons and because they thought you know their capital is going to be locked up and and
now all the chaos that's ensuing there um do you think that you like to buy like to run sometimes
to run right as opposed to the you know i mean i absolutely understand you got to run when bombs
are dropping on your head um but like here in the united states i don't think it's been time to run
yet. Well, I'm not saying it's not going to happen. The United States is very different than Dubai,
though. A lot of people moved there to Dubai for the economic opportunity, safety, and security.
And I think the perception of that might have changed drastically in the last week.
Yeah, it might have.
You know, it just takes one drone at the world's tallest building,
even if it gets intercepted.
Note that these high-rises that are on fire have not collapsed,
unlike Building 7.
or and one and two well yeah i agree um a building seven supposedly collapsed just from a trash from
the collateral damage yeah so but if this is you know truly uh you know the beginning of the world
changing wouldn't you want to pay attention to some degree oh yeah i mean i'm paying attention
to it all the time and constantly running different scenarios about what's really happening in the
world knowing full well that i by no means have any sort of complete picture but you've like you
just constantly like game plan all these different scenarios and then as new bits of information fall
into place is one scenario looking more right than the other in any given time it's massively
confusing it's massively uh scary for the world at large sure do you i mean do you think uh
this has made a greater case for bitcoin in terms of portability and secure self-custody that's
interesting because like we did um i mean they were just dead cat balances but remember when
uh after venezuela right when we took the ships and the military over to the middle east
there was a bunch like monero popped zcash pop all these privacy coins popped bitcoin had a
dead cat bounce and it looked like to me if you're using those channels that this is this is money
trying to flee jurisdictions through private channels but i mean of course i have no proof of
that yeah and the sample size is small it's like sifting tea leaves sure uh i did uh i saw a tweet
from i want to pull up from vlad that was interesting um vlad hosts the best bitcoin
best podcast in bitcoin vlad castilla has been a bit controversial lately um but you know he said
sometimes i feel like a fraud who advertises a revolution that never happened bitcoin didn't
accomplish anything significant at least not compared to the expectations everyone had more
than a decade ago the price went up the institutions co-opted but we still pay with our cards
and then eric uh is it vosco vasco vasco he wrote the expectations were always absurd i pointed this
out for a decade it's not a failure bitcoin it's a failure of people to understand it
what are your thoughts on well those two points there
i i think i mean i think your time you know it's time frame dependent right i mean you are seeing
circular economies around the world the united states is not one the big economies are not one
of them but i also would suspect that a that a country like the united states that has a
functioning financial infrastructure as much as we like to on it we have credit cards we have
checking accounts we have wires and ach and it functions so and we have tax law that says you're
not going to be able to spend your bitcoin without paying capital gains tax so yeah i wouldn't i never
expected uh bitcoin to become rapidly become a medium exchange in a country like the united
states but you look at africa the continent of africa and various different locations throughout
the continent different uh like um lugano prog other areas around around the world uh el salvador
where bitcoin is being used as a currency by groups of people bitcoin jungle right there's
small communities that are sent that are using bitcoin as a medium of exchange a unit of account
and it's coming from the grassroots up so so i think bitcoin is fulfilling it it's just not
fulfilling it at the pace that a lot of bitcoiners thought it would happen and i think i think that's
because you know the largest players in the world the sovereign capital and the the the global
superpowers are incentivized to maintain the current status it's not we're not going to just
flip that overnight it's going to take time and um i i i wouldn't say it's failed i just think
like it's your expectation may have failed but your but it is moving forward perception and
expectations i think are everything i think you know for maybe i don't think myself as a bitcoin
og but people have been here for 10 12 years you would think that it would be the opposite feeling
that bitcoin would be still blowing their mind at 68 000 amidst what could be the beginning of
a major war war um major regional outbreak that could lead to anything we don't know
um and that it still seems like this that would be like the view of someone who got in
much later i feel like and is still very much measuring bitcoin's progress in in its foreign
exchange rate with the dollar i i i don't know sure if i following you but when i think of the ogs
people that were here long before me that i got the opportunity to listen to because they were
very active in social media early on they were all envisioning bitcoin as this way to overthrow
flip the tables on this financial system that was oppressive thrived in war created chaos around the
world and extracted wealth from from people i still think that bitcoin is built to do that
but the time frame to achieve that is much longer than what people had anticipated especially as
they keep kicking the can down the road and the fiat system continues to survive um and then
and if the fiat system is morphing to a gold settled system for at least half of the world
if that's where we're heading that's a step back which would i think would eventually fail when
this gold settled trade eventually somebody says no you're not getting your gold
and by that time hopefully bitcoin is priced high enough the market cap is big enough
that we start to see a transition to sovereign states,
countries, global superpowers,
starting to do trade, settled trade in Bitcoin.
Which, of course, then they could move out to gold
if they want to have some physical custody.
But nothing has changed in regards to the benefits of trade done on Bitcoin.
I just think the adoption is not coming at the pace
that a lot of the OGs would have liked to have seen.
so i was i think the pay the adoption has been phenomenal and and if we're building noah's ark
or the life raft it's gotten much bigger and stronger over the last 17 years and i think
in the um the last three years i think that while institutionally i think institutions have more
exposure to custodian to bitcoin which gives them more leverage over the market price so not your
keys not your market price of bitcoin right but bitcoin is as a life raft has gotten so much bigger
and sturdier for you to port your wealth into true and um there's less reputation risk career
risk with it as well but the ability to port in security has gotten better all that so as an
individual i think it's come so much further yes to support individuals and and you still have an
opportunity to as an individual to speculate in front-run institutions if you want the sort of
of the asymmetric bed of it.
But if you just want to store your wealth,
it's become a better place for that, I think,
or a stronger hub.
I agree.
And I guess that's like phase one.
You know, phase two would be
medium exchange unit of account.
We have pockets of that growing.
But I think a lot has to change
before that starts to take a global presence.
Yeah, I agree with that.
I don't think that's coming for a while.
How are you going to have medium of exchange when maybe the global ownership of Bitcoin is 1% to 3%?
Right.
You can have medium of exchange, just the incentives aren't there for most of the world.
Unit of account, again, I can use that as...
And that doesn't mean give up on building medium of exchange.
We need to keep building that stuff.
We need to build medium of exchange.
We need to build that and we need to expand more and more circular economies living off Bitcoin.
That fight can't stop.
The building can't stop.
And that's why I don't like it when people say, oh, Bitcoin has failed or Bitcoin is dead.
It's like it's not dead or failed.
It's just your perception of how fast things are going to happen when you're fighting the largest financial infrastructure on the planet.
It's going to take time.
Right.
But the fact that the way it moves virally, the way it grows according to power law, the way it is taken up naturally bit by bit, individual by individual, is a slow and steady growth rate that eventually once the doubling is we're going from one and a half trillion to three trillion, three trillion to six, six to 12, 12 to 24.
right once those doublings compound over time now all of a sudden you have ownership going from three
percent to six percent and you get to the scale where now medium of exchange amongst you have
more peers to trade with it'll start to happen naturally i just think the time frame is is is
greater than most people would have hoped yeah i agree envisioned well yeah i think it's sort of
what can bitcoin do for me versus what can i do for bitcoin and um you know so low time preference
so all right let's let's run the the intro so we can get into the show here we got a lot of
exciting topics please hit like and subscribe if you're enjoying bitcoin center live stream
number 43 brought to you by by federal go bank yourself
Let's be real, right?
Praising Telegram for launching a Bitcoin wallet.
I've always felt like Luke Haley.
Bitcoin, this digital currency that's out there that people say, oh, it might be the next big thing.
What do you think?
I think it's rat poison.
Bitcoins. You never heard them a few weeks ago.
Now everybody's talking about them.
But is it a currency?
I don't know.
Or is it more like a stock?
Or is it a tulip bowl?
We're going to debate that.
Stupid.
To me, it smells like Ponzi scheme in the greater fool theory writing.
You do like five minutes of freaking research.
Well, thanks for coming to my set talk.
Yes.
Don't buy shit.
Oh, man, I didn't get that wrong.
All right.
Bitcoin's recent rally.
Do you agree?
Is crypto finally dead?
Go to the next one.
Matter of fact, they're kind of in the Ethernet.
What are they?
Some rumors that it's a Japanese guy, but they know that he's a fake name.
It was a pseudonym.
You're literally putting real money onto a system that we don't even know who created it.
It will come to a bad ending.
Is this the most exciting bull run ever?
Not for me.
No, it's not.
Welcome to Bitcoin Center, the fast-paced show where the debate is the story.
Let's do some updates about Israel and Iran and potentially the United States.
On one side is the Lindsey Graham, John Bolton types, where they are actively calling for regime change.
Here is Lindsey Graham. This is just lunacy.
This kind of analysis is not helpful.
This kind of approach, this kind of argument, it says nothing new with nuclear weapons at this point.
This is now that we want to go all in and take out the regime.
It's time for us to close the chapter on the Iranian Ayatollah and his henchmen and start a new chapter in the Middle East.
That sounds good, doesn't it?
But what have we learned when it comes to wars and especially wars in the Middle East?
What you draw up on a whiteboard rarely happens.
what you think theoretically is going to occur there might be unintended and unforeseen
consequences especially when you're talking about a country two and a half times the size of texas
it has 90 million people and was an ancient and great great power with well over a dozen
What's up?
We frozen?
I think my camera probably went out.
That's what I'm guessing.
Uh-oh.
Did your camera overheat?
That's what I'm assuming.
Please have a technical issue.
that's what you get for running a charlie kirk
stream
no signal yeah
okay i think we're back
put it back on cam link see if it pops up you guys watch the clip yeah yeah okay let's let's keep
room okay well we saw half of the clip there but um i just can't tell if
you know this is trump running the board like if you're looking at risk or you know
board game of life militarily and he's clearing the you know the deck of all
of America's perceived greatest enemies and sort of corralling China and Russia and breaking their
supply chains, or this is just more banker wars and they're all working together behind the scenes
to drain civilization of all wealth. It's just really...
i yeah i don't know the answer to any of that except that what it what my intuition is telling
me is that this is not going to be like other mid-eastern wars this isn't going to be a forever
war this is going to escalate fast is my interpretation to escalate fast it's going to get
out of hand fast, maybe even regional nukes.
And I think it's meant, this is just my interpretation,
and I could be completely wrong,
but I think it's meant to scare the globe
and issue in the digital surveillance state
that we have been talking about as Bitcoiners for a decade now If you think about how 9 scared people and we got the Patriot Act
if you position this as a global 9-11
to issue in a digital surveillance state,
my intuition is telling me that that might be
what's at least one of the driving forces
behind this chaos.
And by increasing its speed.
I think everything you mentioned there was happening before this weekend's events.
They got to 2030 to get this stuff done, right?
So I got to speed it up, I think is what you're saying.
That's the way I feel about it.
Because this seems like ratcheting it up exponentially.
And if the rumors are true and you get the internet, if the internet goes down through the Middle East, if the cables through the share home use are blasted, you have water infrastructure.
disabled. You have even to the extent of a regional nukes or nuke being used in this war,
that would scare the entire globe. It'd be like bringing you right up to the brink of a global
nuclear war. That would scare everybody into, okay, nobody's allowed to go anywhere in the
world without a digital passport. Nobody's allowed to do a financial transaction without
digital identification and surveillance. We're doing it for your own safety. We're doing it to
protect you. You cannot get on the internet unless you log in with your full credentials.
Everything gets surveilled. Everything gets permissioned. I'm not saying they're going to
be successful, but I'm saying this could be one of the driving forces behind this kind of escalation
of chaos because it doesn't um if you know it but it has that do you think that it escalates
from here obviously i think it does right this is sort of the it's my interpretation yeah this is
the but it's not a long-lived kinetic no i don't think this is one of those like okay we've been at
war in iran for eight years i think this escalates within the first you know the next three four
months to a crescendo and that's horrific to get enough fear globally to get the
compliance that they want compliance and then is it inflation and money printing as well
well like in way covet was a sort of uh right stay home print money there's no economic activity
but things get better uh for because of i mean that that would be the easy answer right just be
like yeah the print they're gonna print forever and but this doesn't feel like always i've always
held the option that they don't do the big print because it could impart enough pressure on people
to get them to comply to what they want for a UBI check,
for stable coins in your federal wallet, et cetera.
So, I mean, if they need to kick the can down the road again,
then yeah, we'll get a big print.
How much do you think this comes to the States in terms of,
or how, I mean.
I think it's a great,
it's i i've i've been anticipating i think many of us in the space right have been anticipating
an attack on the u.s grid attack on u.s internet some sort of catalyze like terrorist infrastructure
type of attack to to help catalyze us i i thought you know that it would come first
to try and suck us into an attack um but now maybe it's it comes as a result of of the uh
the war. Um, but yeah, I do think we have, um,
let some people into the country that would probably be willing or,
or interested or maybe came here with the intention of doing that. Uh,
and, uh, if we're going to see it, I think we could see it this year.
A lot of people speculated that would happen after nine 11 and we,
yeah, we didn't. Yeah. Maybe we don't, you know, but I mean,
we got it, we got a big enough, but I mean, even if it's just, uh,
well, if it's a big financial institution that gets hacked,
or something more economic.
It's like, oh, well, this is really
we need to really rebuild.
We get some sort of
maybe we get a terrorist attack on a section
and the energy grid goes down. It's like, oh, we need
to rebuild all this stuff.
Maybe it's just a hack, right? Oh, the North Koreans
or the Iranians hacked our energy grid
and shut it down.
Any sort of thing that's going to disrupt
your easy living
in the United States
will be cause for
a rebuild
A rebuild could be printing.
A rebuild would also probably be more centered around cybersecurity and therefore surveillance.
Because that's their answer to security, right?
It's surveillance, not real security.
Do you see any best case scenarios here that I hate to think nationalistically, but for America?
best best case scenario this flashes out fast peace is discovered fast and and we move on with um
the gcc starting to become you know like more taking more control over the middle east and
having a more peaceful relationship but i i've said this a million times every time i talk
like doesn't get fixed until it's broken and it may not get fixed the way you want it fixed right
and what do you think uh you know we saw oil spike nine percent so some stock markets get closed
uh you know maybe stocks are down half a percent or percent maybe into some of the bigger indexes
here in north america uh bitcoin's holding flat or at least maybe even bumped up a little bit i mean
do you i mean i i feel like you could point to it and say oh wow bitcoin's not acting like a risk
on asset in this moment a risk off asset you mean well it seems to be acting like a risk
off not a risk on but you know if it crashed majorly or it also might have already predicted
some of this chaos sure that's what i'm saying early on yeah oh i was going to also add it could
it could be acting as a canary in a coal mine and the damage could have came already it was reading
future volatility or it could be that all this could be correlation none of it could be causation
and bitcoin's just you know here it is it was a higher now it's lower it's not really i mean it
still seems if you look at like michael howell's research on global liquidity it still seems like
it's been tracking global liquidity um and it'll be the first time right if this escalates if we
have a global recession due to the financial disruption, economic disruption,
communication disruption, trust disruption due to this war. This war escalates and all that stuff
starts to break and we go into some sort of global financial crisis. This will be the first time
in Bitcoin's history that's gone through that. And so I think that will be a very big test of
of Bitcoin and people's willingness to move toward that asset for security.
So it could prove Bitcoin to be a true risk-off asset.
And maybe that looks like just Bitcoin just going through a real gradual trough for the
next XYZ months versus a crash, right?
Or maybe it looks like shock crash, rapid rebound without bonkers money printing.
There could be a number of different ways that that gives us the indication that people are saying, I need to protect what I have and something that's the most secure on the planet.
And now's the right price to do that at.
Right.
I mean, there's just so many, there's so many variables on the chessboard right now.
it's like really, really hard to make any sort of definitive decision on any of this stuff.
Yeah, it's like reading tea leaves, peeling back layers of the onion.
Well, we'll talk more about Bitcoin volatility in this next topic.
Let's play the clip from astrophysicist at, I think, Harvard.
Professor Stephen Pinner.
We're obviously a little bit low relative to the power law projection.
But the important thing is that the power law index has been stable for a decade now.
So it took a while to lock it in.
It's a system that was developing and it had, you know, you have a young child and those are the most dangerous years, but also the high growth years and they're volatile, you know, from the growth perspective.
And it took Bitcoin about seven years to kind of lock in and stabilize.
And it had this nature from the beginning because of the way it was designed.
But it wasn't absolutely certain that it would develop in that way.
And fortunately for all of us who are in it, it did.
it locked in and it's been a stable continuous scale invariant asset that manifests a power log
but also has these discrete scale invariant bubbles and troughs along the way and i'll talk
about that and show some slides on that and when we talk about the power was i surprised
Oh, yeah, please.
Was I surprised?
I mean, no.
I mean, I think once I saw the power law, I just clicked because of the physics background.
If you put it on a log-log plot and you see a straight line and you see that it's been going for 10 years from 2009, say, price discovery in 2010 until, you know, at that time, 2019, you say, wow, that's impressive.
Because the R squared at 0.95, you just don't find that in finance.
And the amazing thing about the power law is that it's not a model you're trying to superimpose on top of Bitcoin, right?
It's just an observation of what it's done over time.
And it all just it lines up on a log-a-log chart.
It's a straight line.
And so that's what makes it what it is, correct?
That's correct.
There's a foundation for it.
Actually, the foundation itself is multilayered.
and it's the way that a system like this evolves
because it is controlled from within.
It has all its own rules.
An analogy would be the cell.
A cell will take resources in through the cell wall
but then once those are inside the cell wall,
the DNA and the RNA decides what happens.
So it is self-creating, self-managing, self-regulating inside that environment.
For Bitcoin, it takes in energy.
It uses that for computation.
So, you know, it consumes hash rate, if you will.
But once it does that, all the rules are set.
You know, the difficulty adjustment determines and provides negative feedback and regulation for the way hash rate gets applied in order to keep the blocks at 10 minutes.
If you didn't keep it at 10 minutes, the network would fall apart.
You would lose temporal synchronization because the hash rate has gone up, or the difficulty has gone up from 1 to 100 trillion.
That's 14 orders of magnitude, right?
So you needed some way to regulate the growth and stabilize it all the way.
And there are other stabilization mechanisms and feedback loops.
And that's why you end up manifesting.
the main question i get there it's the most one of the most interesting arguments around how
bitcoin's alive and it's like a cell manages and creates and replicates itself i i can't get my
head around or buy into that it's like do you think it's regulating its own price in dollar
terms because of its it knows how much energy it's taking in and there's some sort of law of
nature this power like that this power law is a law of nature somehow well i think you know if you
what i like to frame it i think of the power law is the way natural systems exist right so if you
think of like a tree growing in nature it's taking in resources sun water nutrients from soil and
it's going to grow x amount in a bad environment it could it could actually you know have a hard
time growing at all. And in a fertile environment, it could grow very rapidly. So what are the
inputs to Bitcoin? The inputs are energy, people, people's beliefs, adoption. Is it
more use cases evolving? So this is kind of like the phases of adoption that Trace Mayer pointed
out early on, right? Going through these, I forget what they were called, six or seven
network effects. Network effects, right? So I think I agree that the power law is a great way
to measure Bitcoin, but it doesn't mean that you should just anticipate that it's all inevitable.
because if you cut Bitcoin's resources off,
you convince the world it's a risk.
You stop printing fiat.
Then you won't get the growth in the network
that you had anticipated.
It'll still be alive.
It could still be growing.
The power law can turn down.
The power law over time can turn down.
the whole band can turn down, right?
And then go back up.
It doesn't have to just go up constantly.
So to me, I think it points to,
it's a great way to measure Bitcoin.
I think it's very much the most impressive model
we have of Bitcoin,
but we have to constantly feed
and take care of the inputs,
nurture the inputs to Bitcoin
to make sure that it continues to thrive so yeah i think about thriving go back to the plant example
like some plants don't like terrible environment they never take off the seed dies some plants
they grow too fast and it's actually maybe not great for the plant and then a hurricane comes
over yeah right it's not strong enough or it just kills itself it topples over it just kind of feeds
itself too much maybe like a human becomes obese or something the humans obviously can kind of
to self-regulate say i don't want to eat too much i want to be the healthiest version of myself
does bitcoin like maybe through the hive mind through some sort of consciousness or intelligence
like ai understand its inputs its outputs and say i don't want to grow too fast you're going to sound
like idiots when you talk about me you know i don't want more energy right now than i can no i
i think it's a it's it's the one and the only free markets on the planet and um therefore human nature
and our engagement with this protocol dictate its network effects and its growth.
So we essentially humans are the most important input to this entire system.
And if you were to project future price in dollars, which is not,
maybe, you know, it's not as financial advice, but like,
is there some sort of theory that you subscribe to that is more predictive than others if things go
the way you would think i mean obviously things could break higher or lower based on unknown i
guess i i think the we price for the most part we're pricing bitcoin in dollars right so it's
related to the amount of dollars in the system just like just like many assets in the world right
So global liquidity has a big impact on the price of Bitcoin.
That being said, what that doesn't show you is what is the price of Bitcoin or what is the purchasing power that Bitcoin delivers.
So I've always said you could see the price of Bitcoin go down.
But in a deflationary crisis where the price of assets are also going down, resources are going down, then you're maintaining your purchasing power even though the price of Bitcoin is going down.
Right. Or maybe even increasing.
Maybe even increasing.
Right. There's so many vectors here in planes to look at this.
Yep. So you can't just say, okay, Bitcoin went to 125. Now it's a 68. It's failed.
Right. The measurement of the price is not the failure of the network.
So, and I think what power law is measuring
is just, you know,
the network's growth looking like
a natural growth environment.
Do you see an environment where,
when I say United States government here,
I mean, the people who try to manage interest rates
and inflation and the economy,
let's use the name Kevin Warsh,
where he says, you know, I'm not a fan of Bitcoin,
but I could see Bitcoin as,
as a canary in the coal mine or like a thermometer up for the fed for the dollar and i want to
not managing i i'm gonna steer the price with paper bitcoin but like i would like for the price
not to go exponential right so it shows that we're doing a good job over here i think that's an act
i think that's a fair assessment because if by some miracle this year the u.s government got its
debt to GDP down to 30, 40, 50% and deficits were wiped out.
And we're manufacturing in the United States and everybody's
applied and we're economically stable and growing and we're not
just compounding our debt.
I think in that environment the average person would be like but why do I need Bitcoin Right Whereas when debt spiraling out of control when we going from crisis to crisis
they're going to keep printing money. We get more inflation. You're going to increase the
adoption of Bitcoin. Right. So that's, those are kind of the nutrients that feed the Bitcoin plant.
Right. And so so that in that regard, the way he's talking about it, if that's an accurate assessment, the way he's talking about it kind of makes sense to me.
Right. As like a barometer. Oh, this this thing's growing like mad. We're doing something wrong.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And a way to sort of. But, you know, that's all a matter of perspective as well, because you could say, hey, we're doing better.
bitcoin's going down but bitcoin could do a 3x and they could say look we printed 5x the supply
of money and bitcoin's only at 210 we think we're doing that that shows we're doing great
i mean it's how they want to read it also i know we're going to talk about this but it's the same
thing that they've tried to they've done to gold for many many years right is every time gold would
stick its head up like things aren't right they come in and hammer it down with derivatives
and uh we know now that they're playing those you know we have proof we've always suspected we have
proof now that those games have been being played and so um you know this is starving the plant of
nutrients this is like every time it grows just cut cut the branches off just keep hacking at the
branches right and uh hopefully bitcoin's getting thicker and denser and the stocks are getting
thicker and denser and eventually it's just going to burst through it um but you know they're they're
actively trying to prune the growth of the network because it is the canary in the coal mine. It's
the signal to everybody, you should adopt this. And the faster people adopt this, the faster it
kills the fiat system. So the war on Bitcoin never ended. The war on Bitcoin, like when Trump became
president and said, congratulations, Bitcoiners, that doesn't mean the war was over. The war is
Bitcoin's constantly under attack. We're going to keep fighting this war and we have to push
push forward and we have to keep nurturing this network. You can't,
you're not going to get all the benefits out of Bitcoin.
If you just sit on the sidelines and wait for it to do something for you.
It's not, it's not what you can do for everyone.
What Bitcoin can do for you is what can you do for Bitcoin, right?
I think when you start thinking about it that way though, you start,
you obviously let's think about the price and the exchange ratio.
And you just think about it as your savings or your money and you use it when
you need it and you save it when you can.
You know, but Bitcoiners, Bitcoin companies are still under attack.
Yeah.
You know, and Bitcoiners are still under attack.
Keone Rodriguez is still in prison for writing code.
Let's move on to the lightning rounds.
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Let's go to the next round.
I think Jane Street has been exposed, Peruvian bull.
Roberto Rodriguez, next guest on Bitcoin Matrix, just wrote a great piece about this.
Do you think that, you know, let's say this is happening and Jane Street, they are an authorized participant on the Bitcoin ETF.
So they see the order flow, the deal flow.
They don't have, first it was cash settled.
Now it's not even cash settled.
It's BTC in kind, which gives them even more flexibility.
Yeah.
Do you think that they are pushing the price around?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think firms like Jane Street don't really care what asset they're trading.
They're just looking for opportunities that they can apply pressure and then extract profits from.
And I think the Bitcoin ETF gave them a significant opportunity.
And the Bitcoin treasury companies, right?
Because they could lever up with derivatives on top of MicroStrategy, which is a levered Bitcoin play, right?
So they have the tools in a thinly traded market with global arbitrage where they can take advantage of this system.
What I think people might be conflating is this idea that they're breaking the law.
And that's why you see them going after insider trading on the Terra Luna deal.
Was it Terra Luna?
Yeah, Terra Luna.
yeah right they're going after them for insider trading if there wasn't inside information
what they did would not necessarily be illegal right like what they're doing with the bitcoin
etf and and and treasury companies and spot bitcoin it's as far as i could tell not illegal
right they're just they're just it's they are big enough to be able to push markets around and take
advantage of smaller traders so i think that it's it's against if i do share your responsibility
why do they have fiduciary i'm not saying they i i think people are i think as an author they're
trading their own money right yeah but as an authorized participant i think there's the
consumer thinks that when they go to buy the bitcoin etf that bitcoin is being purchased to
right that spot right and and i don't think that's what jane street is doing no not at all right and
And so I don't think what they're doing may not be illegal.
They're buying and selling the ETF.
They're buying and selling spot.
And they're running derivatives contracts on top of those and across the treasury companies in order to push the market in a direction and then rip off, rip out the capital so that it'll drop so that their derivative positions will make 10 times more money.
So they are manipulating markets at a large scale.
But is that breaking the law?
Right.
I hear what you're saying.
And it might not be lawful.
It might not be illegal, though.
And maybe it's not moral.
Maybe not.
But I'm also not crying in my milk over this, the expression.
But because I feel like Wall Street's in the game.
This is what Wall Street does.
You know, not your keys, not your market price.
Yep.
Not your Wall Street price.
Yeah, exactly.
And we just have to sort of fight through this in terms of...
Well, this is what a lot of the OGs have been worried about, right?
Is that why many of them were unhappy with the Wall Streetization of Bitcoin.
But I don't think there's anybody around it.
No, sure.
It's Trace Mayer's network effect.
You have to have financialization in order to get to the next level.
But getting through that gauntlet isn't going to be comfortable.
So like when you IPO, right, and you come out and you're up 200% and then Wall Street fucking hammers you for two years before you start an uptrend again, right?
Like this is a, these are common tactics, right?
You know, it'd be interesting to measure when you say like Bitcoiners didn't want this.
Maybe the earliest the Bitcoiners didn't want it.
And I wonder how much wealth they have in Bitcoin.
I'm counting it in Bitcoin denominated.
but new Bitcoiners, and I'm not saying, not maybe the ethos, but people who are buying the ETF and
buying Bitcoin since are very much comfortable with Wall Street buying Bitcoin. And I don't
think it's something that we can kind of avoid. No, I'm not saying we can avoid. I'm not saying
we have to avoid. I'm not saying Wall Street shouldn't have Bitcoin. All I'm saying is that
this was we were warned about this right we were warned about financialization of bitcoin that it
wasn't going to be oh it's not going to pump your bags yes right right no they want to take your
bags they're not going to pump your bags until their bags are full right how do they fill their
bags they scare you to shit they do like when you're petrified and you no longer around this
thing then their bags will be full and then the story will change and the momentum will change
and everything will shift. This is the way finance has worked as long as I've seen it,
as long as I've been involved in it. And the drawdowns in Bitcoin can be significant. So it's
painful, which works in their favor. But I think somebody like Jane Street, they don't have any
care whether Bitcoin succeeds or not. They're just looking at this as,
here's a market i can move here's a market i could take advantage of and i can extract
wealth from right but what i found interesting about roberto's piece was the tara luna collapse
uh that wiped out 40 billion in value and it set off a chain reaction that eventually took down
celsius three arrows capital and ftx but this all all of us were doing fraud celsius i don't know
know about three hours but celsius and ftx were involved in fraud and that this fraud was on
unraveled by what appears to be 250 million in drawdowns right so it's incredible how little
liquidity being pulled especially when that happened at near the bottom of a bear market
right so they the liquidity was super thin and they could really swing a bat but you know again
if they had if they had taken advantage of this moment without the insider trading information
about the structure of ust right and the problems that were happening at tara luna
if they didn't have the inside information would they have been able to pull this big
trade off and that that's where the lawsuit is from what i understand is is looking i'm not so
certain. I'm reading this right now. You read
it from like my, in your analog mind,
you're like, the lawsuit
alleges that a former Terraform intern
named Bryce Parratt, who joined Jane
Street as a full-time employee,
established a back channel. The piece that's
interesting here is, okay, on May 7th
of 2022, Terraform
Labs quietly withdrew $150 million.
I think quietly
is an opinion here.
Because, you know, it says a major decentralized
liquidity pool. No public
announcement, just a silent pool of liquidity.
10 minutes later, a wallet linked to Jane Street withdrew $85 million from the same pool.
So the big harp on $10 million, and I think there's the notion that the intern DMs somebody.
This could be automated, though, through machine learning or any sort of code.
Sure.
My wallet, watch your wallet.
Yep.
Withdrawal X, I withdraw Y, or X divided by two.
Sure.
and it's 10 minutes is slow no yeah i mean i mean for high frequency traders so i'm not so sure that
it's even inside knowledge as much as i know which wallet to watch could be you know and so i guess
we're going to find out right but there is this sort of then there was the coincidence of there's
just been this 10 a.m slam and that seems to have gone away again doesn't mean that it's jane street
doing but if it's another firm doing it and jane street come the news breaks about jane street
and they just don't want the other firm pulls out there you know a lot of assumptions here yeah but
i think all this is par for the course and yeah and i don't know was there anything in there about
naked short selling there i didn't see anything about that um which goes on all the time and is
supposedly illegal right so there's a lot of things that happen in the trading world that
are ruthless.
It's a war.
It's a battle.
Everybody's out to make themselves money.
And the only way you make money
is by taking it from other people.
So it's a ruthless game.
There's the end of every trade.
There's one winner and there's one loser.
So you've got to understand
the way that system works
and it is going to be applied against Bitcoin.
The only way it doesn't get applied
is if everybody's in self-custom.
Right.
But the fact that everybody is now moving into these securitized structures that hold
Bitcoin on their behalf opens us up to more easily being attacked.
Right.
I mean, which is all pros and cons of how you custody secure your Bitcoin.
That's personal.
Yeah.
But I do agree with you 100% that if everyone withdrew into self-custody, we take so much,
Maybe not 100% of the power away, but close to it.
What was Trace's deal every January one?
Proof of keys.
I mean, it was such an awesome, awesome trend.
And I loved it.
It helped train me to, every year, remove my coins and get them in self-custody.
And, you know, we've lost that ethos.
Yeah.
I mean, not all of us.
I think it'll come back.
It'll come back.
Especially a lot of the new people that just want exposure.
Their advisor said you need some exposure.
And they're not, they're not truly taking self, they're not taking self custody and they don't truly own Bitcoin.
It's not a vector for them or a notion.
Yeah.
So, so it's, you know, but, you know, over time, the diehard, died in the wool Bitcoiners that take coins to self custody will accumulate more and more and more and more.
Right.
And some of those entities are going to be very, very large entities.
so you know back to you know we say a lot of ogs warned us about the financialization of bitcoin but
the the new g's came with their cash yeah and like buy bitcoin for me yeah i mean in yeah high fervor
yeah uh so for everyone poo-pooing it or saying like they weren't i mean like didn't right on
but also a lot of the um volume in these treasury companies and etfs were also prop trading firms
that wanted to be able to move these markets
in a way that they could benefit.
Like they want to have spot,
they want to have derivatives,
they want to have all the different buckets
so they can play them off of each other
and extract value.
And the securitization of Bitcoin
is just aided in their ability to do that.
Right.
All right.
Let's change gears a little bit here.
Let's play this Luke Broyles clip
from adopting Bitcoin conference.
If we were to price all the Bitcoin in the world
with oil,
right? If we were to have Bitcoin be the unit of account with just oil, forget real estate,
forget fine art, forget stocks, forget bonds, forget all fiat money, forget every other commodity
or security on the planet. Just oil is 1,272 satoshis for every barrel of oil. And that means,
Again, we're getting every other asset in the world. If you own one Bitcoin, you effectively
own the oil equivalent of 78,616 barrels. If you got 10 Bitcoin, congrats, you have 780,000 barrels
of oil. If you have a tenth of a Bitcoin, congrats, you got 7,800 barrels of oil, right? My point is,
if this game theory accelerates, if these four nations in the next 12 months do come out and
publicly acknowledge their strategic reserves, I think that we can begin to start talking about
this idea of pricing oil in terms of Bitcoin, just like Putin himself described. And so my point is,
it might feel like it's too late for Bitcoin, because the number has gone up a lot, right? I
mean, it's up, what, 20, 30% the last few days alone, right? Like, it might feel like it's too
late. But just like I said at the beginning of the talk regarding Manhattan, it's actually the
inverse. If anything, you're too early. If anything, you are going to be remembered as this crazy,
crazy person that was somehow in Bitcoin before we started pricing at oil. Can you imagine how
much purchasing power they have, right? So my encouragement is stop looking at Bitcoin in terms
of random numbers, a random price, or a random number of Satoshis. Think about that reality that
the average person will probably have less than 50,000 Satoshis if Bitcoin becomes a global medium
of account, not medium of account, unit of account, medium of exchange. And think of it in terms of
barrels of oil, right? Think of your Bitcoin stack. And whenever you feel like I'm too late,
I'm too late. I don't have enough. It's not worth a lot. Think of it in terms of barrels of oil. How
many barrels of oil do you own? So like I said, it feels like it's too late because there's lots of
people in here in Bitcoin that have been around longer than you, that have bought more Bitcoin
than you, that have read more Bitcoin books and listened to more Bitcoin podcasts than you,
all that stuff, right? So it might feel like you're too late. But my encouragement is right now,
we disproportionately have a lot of whole coiner friends, multi whole coiner friends, right?
Disproportionately, you know, again, we're in 1630s Manhattan, like everyone we know is super,
super early to Bitcoin. And so therefore we're biased to think we're too late. We're actually,
it's the opposite. Man, this clicker. Actually, it's the opposite. So on the screen here is a
visual graphic of all the people in the world. That little guy at the top left, a fraction of
that guy, one in a thousand, is all the whole coiners, and a fraction of that fraction is all
the multi-whole coiners. So, I only got one Bitcoin, you're not too late. I only got five
Bitcoin, you're not too late, right? This is my point. We're on the eve of nation-state adoption,
right? We have less in common with the near future than the ancient past, right? For the entirety of
Bitcoin's history. We've gone from zero to one, maybe two if you argue Bhutan, nation state
adopters. Okay. Very soon we can have half a dozen within a year. What happens the year after that?
What happens the year after that? Right? So again, don't compare yourself as to quote unquote,
how early I am to Bitcoin based on your peer group today and all of our friends in this room,
compare it to the graphic on what do you think do you think uh
i mean is this new news is this i think this feels almost like old news in bitcoin world
yeah to be honest but i think it's great for orange pilling if you're on your personal journey
you come across sort of that way of thinking i think it sort of helps you enlarge your mindscape
For me it still helps me remember how early we are and get optimistic and excited and bullish But I don think it something we going to do anytime soon as a society think in bitcoin terms i try to think is my unit of account i
think that's a superpower i mean i do that often i'll price things in bitcoin on a chart yeah and
then price them in dollars and price them in gold and see the difference right and um when you do
that it's very eye-opening i i think that's super important for people new to bitcoin to hear yeah
um and it is i think a proper way to think about bitcoin like what is what's the average or the
medium price of a home priced in bitcoin what's the you know and how has that changed what's the
price of oil in bitcoin how's that changed the price the sap in bitcoin etc price of gold in
bitcoin that's an interesting chart right so um these things are these are all good ways for you
to frame the true value that bitcoin is delivering to you as opposed to the price i paid and the
price it's at today yeah i agree keep stacking stay humble stacks ads all right this is bitcoin
center brought to you by by federal go bank yourself go to bitcoin atm by federal bitcoin atm
put some cash in and get some Bitcoin, put it in self-custody.
But, you know, talking about sort of self-custody, maybe OpenClaw and Bitcoin.
Is open source winning again?
What is, I mean, Gladstein's talking about how it's changing his life, it sounds like.
You tell me you're using AI all the time.
I'm not using OpenClaw, but we are using it.
I mean, all of our developers are using clawed code and other AI resources.
I think Gladstein was very accurate in regards to like you don't want to give these open source projects like unlimited access to all your data.
You want to be careful there.
But if you can build out a walled garden and bring your data into it, it's amazing what it can do.
It's helped me a ton.
It's helping the company a ton.
And I think it's really interesting.
I think it's going to be a very interesting future.
Again, we have to build it.
Because, you know, if you start to look at a lot of these AI projects that are driving stablecoins and utilizing stablecoins.
So we really need to, as a community, start building with Lightning and Bitcoin in the AI infrastructure more aggressively, I think.
I think, you know, Callie has been writing about this a lot.
And I think he's right.
We can't just sit back and be like, oh, AI is here.
We won because there's a lot of developers that are incentivized to build AI with stable coins, shit coins, etc.
So it's not just because AI is here, Bitcoin is one.
We have to point the AI in the right direction.
I think AI is going to be part of the battle.
I think AI is going to be steered away from Bitcoin.
And most of AI, I still think, is going to be centralized.
It's going to be up to the sovereign community to build tools that benefit Bitcoin.
And so that we can use those tools, those AI tools on Bitcoin in a safe and sovereign fashion.
And so I think it has a potential to be very, very empowering for Bitcoiners.
But we need to build what we want.
we need to build what works for our community,
not just wait for open AI to give us a stable coin AI interface.
Right.
Our X, like, you know, I mean,
these things are all going to get dollar stable coins, right?
The only way they're going to get Bitcoin and lightning is if we build it.
Yeah.
I agree.
All right.
Do you think AI is all roses though?
I mean.
All roses?
Like I think it's part of the...
All technology is good and evil.
Depends who's using it.
Do you think AI is going to have more of a positive impact on humanity?
I think there'll be parts of humanity that use it to significantly improve their capability,
their performance, their productivity, their ability to be sovereign.
and then there will be probably a larger percentage of the world
that just rolls over and says,
what am I going to do now?
Right?
I mean, like, what, you know,
could somebody please send me a check because I'm out of a job.
You know, I mean, you take like what Block did recently, right?
Laying off half of its workforce because of AI.
Right.
Maybe 5% or 10% of those developers will go build something amazing.
They got seven months severance.
And in that seven months, they crank out some new AI, Bitcoin-related productivity tool that's amazing.
And it changes the world for those that adopt it.
the other 95% probably just find a job or go somewhere to go do something else or
maybe don't work in Bitcoin anymore. And that's just the way this thing's going to evolve.
I think the beauty is that we're going to see such an abundance of apps now. AI is going to
facilitate an explosion in applications. So stuff where it wasn't economical before to write that
app because it was 1% of the globe, the Bitcoiners that want it. Now they can do that. And so we can
get at a very low cost tools that are built for our community that before wouldn't have been built
because it didn't scale to the whole globe. Right. And so many of these tools that are built
are going to be a response to some of the negative tools,
things that are built with AI that we're going to be like,
we need this now to defend ourselves.
Right, exactly.
So I think it's going to be super empowering.
And you just have to look for the things that are going to,
like you need to be aware and look for the things
that are going to benefit your life and implement those things.
Yeah.
And don't adopt the rest.
I hear you.
Yeah. Arthur Hayes thinks the skirmish with Iran leads to money printing.
Yeah, I saw that. I read that. I love what Arthur writes. I think that's a potential outcome.
He hasn't even write too often on his financial predictions, if you will.
I don't think he's batting near 100%. I think he's like maybe 20% or something like that.
But I enjoy his writing. I think he's a character.
You know, what is the old saying, right? Even a broken clock is twice a day.
So, I mean, it's, look, we've been talking about the big print for so long.
Hasn't happened yet.
Doesn't mean it's not going to happen.
It just means our timeframe is wrong.
Right.
So we'll see.
All right.
And the last topic, let's play this clip about Citibank.
So, yes, as we move into the world of 24-7 assets like Bitcoin,
We definitely need 24-7 US dollar or 24-7 digital money.
And while all our systems and processes are also being uplifted into 24-7 support, like
we absolutely need that.
So in some sense, we are back to the world of Citi never sleeps.
So this is the one big idea, to make Bitcoin bankable.
this year, Citi will be launching our infrastructure that integrates Bitcoin
into traditional finance. So we're going to start with core custody and safekeeping
capabilities, institutional grade key management and wallet infrastructure. So
what does it actually mean to make Bitcoin bankable? Three things. First, as we
at institutional grade custody and key management infrastructure.
We also will be bringing Bitcoin into the fold of the $30 trillion of traditional assets
that our clients entrust with us today.
So it'll be the same framework that's applied and now brought to Bitcoin.
We will be offering our clients a single service model across crypto, securities, and money.
would mean is we will be feeding the bitcoin positions to the same reporting channels and
frameworks and tax workflows that traditional securities pulled into we've heard from our
clients like they don't want to handle wallets and keys and one-time addresses so we will take care of
that was like the least uh friendly bitcoin enticing talk in terms of like bitcoiners
it's just it tells you exactly what's happening right just like trump said congratulations
bitcoiners we got it from here that's city group saying congratulations coinbase we'll take it from
here you've done well done great with your custody yeah and your self-custody we got it
the way you handle but we're going to give you new institutional grade bitcoin but i think it speaks
to also the fact that potentially the vast majority of self-sovereign bitcoiners that got into it for
the sovereign aspects of bitcoin and the self-custody and all all the things all the
cultural things that bitcoin was is provides that that adoption curve may be near an end
meaning all of us that came here for that are in for the most part and our dollar cost averaging in
and or the you know the few that have yet to be woken up to that reality right we woke a bunch up
in the middle east all of a sudden but people will continue to wake up to those to the sovereign
benefits of bitcoin in self-custody but there's this whole other wave of financial this whole
other wave of adoption which is trace mayors financial network effect or financialization
network effect that these groups are going to now take and give people exposure to bitcoin
so so that doesn't take away any of the sovereign aspects that you retain by having it in self-custody
It doesn't take away any of those benefits.
But it does show you that there's a whole new group of people adopting Bitcoin in a completely non-sovereign fashion.
And they're going to take advantage of that group.
And they're going to facilitate that group.
We've always complained about, right?
How many times have we shit on Coinbase for doing that?
Yeah.
Well, now here come the real big ones that are going to do that.
Wow. So do you really think we're at a major inflection point for the 21st century?
Or actually 22nd?
Yeah. I mean, yeah.
We've been talking about this for a decade now.
I mean, with this latest weekend extravaganza in Iran, and is this a major turning point?
This was outlined in the fourth turning.
This has been talked about by Ray Dalio.
This has been talked about by Martin Armstrong.
That's right.
Martin Armstrong, Larry Johnson.
Everybody that has been covering these big global macro shifts
have been talking about this point in history coming.
It's here.
We're in the middle of it.
So it almost feels like a simulation in the way that it's been just a slow train wreck towards this.
Yeah, because...
You know, well, I mean.
I mean, in the sense that.
Every American administration has looked to Iran and as you know, for this to happen, I think.
And everyone is more like everyone with common sense has been like, just don't do this.
Right. And, you know, you try to take yourself out of out of as an American.
i mean persia is a beautiful civilization um it's a historic ancient civilization
i'm not familiar intimately with the regime i know what i see in the news but you know um
time and time again america's tried to do regime change and it's not gone the way we've hoped um
and uh yeah so it just feels like a slow train from that that perspective of well here we go again
Or is it what, so I just had Efrat on our podcast and Monica and Efrat talked about us being right now, this is before the war, but being in the middle of this, the eye of the hurricane.
And now we're maybe hitting the outer wall again and we're going to get the winds, the strong winds again.
and and so if this is something right the regime change in iran has been on the chess board for
decades right but if you look at it from the view of all this stuff that the wef wanted implemented
the palantir wants implemented that the digital control system wants implemented
If the goal is to get that done by 2030, it's like they are running out of time to create the environment where they can push that on the people.
I'm hopeful that a good portion of the world will stand up and say, no, we're not going to accept this.
you you know we're not going to participate in this digital farm as the animals that are fenced
that that's where we just have to stand up and say no we can't we're not strong enough to stop
wars and to stop missiles from flying but we each as individuals are strong enough to say
no we don't accept what you're offering and i want to go a different way i'm going to go i'm
going to i'm going to be as sovereign as i can as an individual i'm going to have my sovereign
money i'm going to have my sovereign communications i'm going to have my food sources i'm having my
water sources i'm going to try and move to a jurisdiction where um those kind of values are
supported as opposed to uh beat out of you and those are all the decisions that individuals are
making and i just think the early bitcoiners were the first ones to see these threats and the first
ones to take action and there'll be many more people waking up uh to to making having to make
that decision whether it's forced on them or not but i think that's all the decision all of us as
individuals are going to have to make over the next few years because it's going to be a full
court press to get the new system, the reset system that they want in place. And it's the they,
right? The they, if you want to know who the they are, right? Go listen to Simon Dixon. Listen to Tom
Luongo. Listen to Martin Armstrong. Listen to all these guys that are doing a really good job of
describing the they and it's not specifically like they're all aligned with an agenda that
that's why i like to think of them as like the mob and the mafia at war with each other
of who's going to be in charge of this new system and we as as the civilians on the street when we
see that black that black cadillac pull up and guys jump out with guns we got to get the out of
the way right like that's all we can do uh and until this says and then once this is reset then
we can stand up and say no i'm not going to participate in it i'm going a whole different
route right i mean i i feel like the boot's going to come down and i want to be living a life where
i'm not worried about scurrying at the last minute yep like i already know the boot's coming down and
just get out of the way now right um which is what we've been trying to preach for several years
in the Bitcoin community about, you know, like, this is coming, this is coming.
I remember in 2017 talking to people about CBDCs and they were like,
well, you're fucking out of your mind.
Like, what are you even talking about?
It's taken a lot longer to get here than I thought it would.
That's my personal misconception.
But if you look at this from the 2030 agenda and you look at everything that
the WEF wanted to have imparted, and now you look at warring tribes
trying to get their own version of that kind of control structure in place.
That's maybe painting a very misty picture of what may be going on.
Yeah.
All right.
Well,
and I look forward to being proven wrong because I'd like nothing better for
all of us to just be safe and happy.
Yeah,
of course.
Well,
we're all doing the best we can stay humble,
stack stats and be safe and happy.
Hopefully be local.
Think local.
Yep.
or act local um there's been another great show as always paul uh this is brought to you by
bite federal go bank yourself go to bite federal atm buy bitcoin use the bite federal app you can
use the yeah when you get in the app store you'll see bite wallet and bite vault bite vault is not
custodial you hold your own keys that's your storage locker bite wallet is where you connect
your checking account and buy your coins smash buy when you get a big enough balance move it to
to self-custody. Go bank yourself.
That's another thing
watching bankers talk about, you know,
banking Bitcoin.
Go bank yourself. Bank yourself, people.
Bank the Unbanked. You've been empowered.
It's your choice to choose it.
I hear you. I don't know if we have any questions
in the chat. If not,
we can roll out.
We don't. Peace, everybody.
See you next week.
Bye-bye.
91.