all right what's up
october 21st uh another tuesday how are you doing brother
there you go all right how you been i've been good how was your weekend man
uh it was pretty epic i was up in montreal for the canadian bitcoin conference
yeah that was great i saw your co-worker michelle weekly yeah she's talking about privacy and
security uh it was a great conference she was representing bite federal go bank yourself but
not for the intro but uh hit like and subscribe yeah i had a great time in montreal i think it's
one of the best conferences uh on stage i think larry lepard okay uh he you know really brought
to fire both on he was on x the whole time or you know telling people to go i've been watching him
just rip people he was ripping people to shreds like on the way from like the festival to the
dinner bitcoin uh and he knew that guy personally and then he found crossfit and now he's just
fucking terrorist yes so the highlights i guess uh so larry on stage and sort of the message he
was kind of giving or just kind of the way he's able to crystallize certain points especially
around like maybe price of suppression and how there's price suppression through uh paper gold
and futures and same similar thing in bitcoin yeah and he doesn't think it's drastic you know
uh i don't want to speak for larry but he was pretty intense and then i got to walk home from
the conference at hotel with larry and tomer stro light stormer tomer and nico on panel with me
so these were some highlights and then uh when we went out for steak dinner uh bull bitcoin
invited us but they get to a nice steak restaurant and uh like there's like 50 60 people coming
and we find out that we don't actually have a reservation for any of us but somehow they
accommodate us uh gibbies and uh we had a nice time steaks came really late at night but
so yeah that was it was a great weekend uh epic conference i'd go again uh for the third time in
a row this was my second time there so montreal's beautiful city that's awesome yeah how about you
uh what did i do this weekend i built a chicken coop oh your second one i guess yeah big one
bigger okay this is on the farm it's going out to the farm it's portable built-in watering and food
movable fresh grass every day they're gonna be some happy chickens yeah we're talking about that
um I thought this puppy would sort of replace or prevent that like I thought I we'd got the puppy
and then let's not with us today let's not do the chicken coop but I think we're still doing
chicken coop behind us somewhere here so what about bitcoin what about it i don't know are we in the
bitcoin space anymore uh are we in the are we in the trending sideways space you know going up to
montreal going to the canada it was like really honed in it was really bitcoin maxi stuff and uh
it was i thought really focused and you know i don't think you're hearing necessarily a lot of
new sort of content or signal or anything but it was nice to be around other bitcoin maxis
and it wasn't convoluted or anything.
And yeah, I felt like I was in a little bubble
for a little while in Bitcoin land.
You can go to the bazaar and buy stuff,
hats, shirts, and panties for Bitcoin.
Maybe we're seeing a glimpse of what Bitcoin's
going to look like 30 years from now,
where it's just going sideways forever.
And we're just all living on a Bitcoin standard.
We're all happy, eating steak,
hanging out with each other in our bubbles.
Tough to imagine.
They're not going to stop printing.
So I just, I don't know.
I was trying to-
But if printing comes and Bitcoin goes up
and inflation, cost of living goes up
and Bitcoin goes up and cost of living goes,
isn't that the same as being flat?
In a way, and I think that'd be great, I guess.
If it maintained purchasing power,
I guess is what you're saying.
If it maintained purchasing power, yeah.
Sure, and if that's the stability
of the stable coin of it, yeah.
Sure.
I think that's kind of what it's designed to do.
Your portfolio that you're managing
outside of your job is really where your career,
your entrepreneurship is really just trying to create money.
You're using your portfolio.
This is what most people do to sort of create a basket of goods.
Patrick wants to print money.
But not create money like in that sense,
but sort of like, yeah, hold your purchasing power.
All right, let's get into it.
Let's get started.
Yeah, go back yourself, Paul.
Hit like and subscribe.
This is brought to you by Byte Federal.
And Satoshi Bakamoko.
Let's be real, right?
Praising Telegram for launching a Bitcoin wallet.
I've always felt like with Kayleigh.
Bitcoin, this digital currency that's out there that people say, oh, it might be the next big thing.
What do you think?
I think it's rat poison.
Bitcoin.
You never heard of them a few weeks ago.
Now everybody's talking about them.
But is it a currency?
I don't know.
Or is it more like a stock?
Or is it a tulip bowl?
Or is it just stupid?
To me, it smells like Ponzi scheme in the greater pool theory, right?
You do like five minutes of freaking research.
Well, thanks for coming to my set talk.
Yes.
Don't buy shit coins.
Oh, man, I was getting that wrong.
All right.
Bitcoin's recent rally.
Do you agree?
Is crypto finally dead?
Go to the next one.
Matter of fact, they're kind of in the Ethernet.
What are they?
Some rumors that it's a Japanese guy,
but they know that he's a fake name.
It was a pseudonym.
You're literally putting real money onto a system
that we don't even know who created it.
It will come to a bad ending.
Is this the most exciting bull run ever?
Not for me.
No, it's not.
welcome to bitcoin center the fast-paced show where the debate is the story
ding ding all right cedric gold is hitting an all-time high banks are tapping fed facilities
amid tidying liquidity bitcoin's uptober fizzled is this just a temporary macro blip capping uh
macro blip capping the bull run or is it a fundamental test of bitcoin's resilience as
liquidity drains i i don't think it's uh the end of the bull run personally
uh i think it has to do with liquidity you know this article i'm reading here in coindesk talks
to sort of how the overnight rates,
the Fed overnight rate is going up.
It went from like 0.02 to 0.19, I think, bips.
And then I think that the overnight rate
between the banks went up
and the amount of collateral
that is coming through the repo facility
is hitting around like sort of the amounts after COVID.
So it looks like there's a little fear in the market
and I think everyone's waiting for more liquidity to come.
When I say everyone, I think it's investors,
traders, hedge funds.
So that's what it appears to be.
I still think there's this trend line of,
in some way, they're not, I don't know how,
they're not letting Bitcoin rip.
Yeah.
And they're holding it back until there's just much more,
I think, one, they're pulling more into the ETFs,
more into the treasury companies,
more into sort of institutional hands via those vehicles.
I know those represent shareholders and things like that.
And even the ETF does represent ownership.
But I think they want it in those vehicles.
I think this is a time where the coins are changing hands from OGs.
I think it's still, we're underestimating how many OGs are just liquidating coins at this price and continuing, almost like they're DCAing out.
I agree.
I also think, though, that the Federal Reserve and the U.S. in general is the largest liquidity provider in the world.
And we have yet to join the party in a big way.
Right.
We helped out Argentina, but that was like only 20 billion and, you know, maybe some other things.
But, yeah, we haven't really jumped in in a massive way.
Not the way China is doing it.
And so I think if we jump into that game, I think there's, I agree with you, there's one more big run left in this baby.
Yeah.
So we'll see.
All right, let's move on to the next topic here.
All right.
U.S. seizes $15 billion in Bitcoin.
With U.S. authorities now holding $130,000 Bitcoin from a massive scam bust,
potentially the largest single contribution to a national Bitcoin reserve,
will it be the fraudsters, not policymakers,
who end up jump-starting America's Bitcoin balance sheet?
I mean, I think this is a revenue-neutral way to get Bitcoin
is to seize it all over the world.
um what there was something very interesting though about this article that um they just
kind of left hanging which was that uh do you remember the big chinese miner hack
not too long ago the chinese miner was like a lovin or lubin or something okay yeah i'm not
reading it so i can't remember the name but um i guess the coins that they recovered elliptic
trace them back to that hack of the miner.
And so they're questioning now,
was this miner really hacked?
Sure.
Or was it a fake hack
in order to obfuscate these coins even further?
And then they mentioned this thing
and then moved on from it,
which was like,
was the US involved in hacking that exchange?
And then they just dropped that comment.
Right.
I'm like, wait a minute here.
That's a weird seed to plant.
because if if the u.s hacked those coins from the chinese minor and then they end up in the hands of
this i believe uh chinese national running uh pig butchering scams and camp in cambodia
do you think those were connected that's what they're making the case elliptic is making the
case that when they track those coins that they're somehow connected details to be determined um
Um, so, you know, and then it always begs the question like, okay, great.
You can track these coins.
You can see where they came from, but I don't see any attempt to return them to the individuals
who had them stolen.
Right.
Yeah.
So that, that's where I'm like, let's stop.
This is so disappointing.
Let's stop the fraud.
Yeah.
And not helping.
You're not going to return with the people that got fraud.
And it's a sizable amount of coins for the United States government.
It's going to be very interesting.
That was, that was horrible to see and very disheartening.
So I don't know.
There's a lot, but I think there's more of that to come.
A lot of mystery there.
and I think C here is on the...
I think that's a warning shot to US citizens.
Yeah, 100%.
Let's move on.
Okay.
Samson Mao predicts a supersized rally
and Samson claims Bitcoin's next bull run
will outshine gold.
And is this a hyperbole from a permeable
or does Bitcoin's post-having dynamics
truly have a shot at eclipsing gold's performance?
I do think Bitcoin has definitely a shot at eclipsing gold's performance, even before year end.
And that wouldn't be much here in terms of like for a Bitcoin rally in Q4 of, you know, 18 months after the halving.
I just, you know, and I think that, you know, Samson has been calling us for a long time.
You could argue that a broken clock is right twice a day.
But I really think that it's going to be a gradually then suddenly moment.
And I'm on team Samson here.
I think that Bitcoin at some point is going to shock us and do multiples compared to gold.
I think gold is showing us.
I mean, gold is up, what, 60% on the year.
Right.
And that's, I think, $10 trillion for the market cap.
And that's a little confusing because like 15, if there's 30 trillion in gold, if it's
not 30 trillion, maybe 15 of that is not traded.
Maybe that's in gold, that's in antiquities and in jewelry and things of this.
Only 15 trillion is traded, things of this nature.
but gold is racing.
I think this is a really screaming to the company.
They're even talking about the debasement trade.
I think the debasement trade is going to be sort of the way the transitory
comment was made around inflation,
where that's going to be the talk for the next 18 months.
They're seeding this narrative that you can almost get rich on inflation.
Yeah.
I mean,
I have the feeling that gold is got to be accumulated first.
Yeah.
as a and it has to and then we can market to market i don't i don't think we're marking it
to market i think we will we only gain we only have four percent of we have eight thousand tons
of gold right four percent of the 30 trillion i think i think i'm gonna piss on my laptop
i don't think they are i think they're gonna actually dump it uh i don't think they can
market market they have to go through an audit it would cause a concern for an audit why well
I don't know.
I don't think they're going to.
I disagree.
But Peter Schiff says that gold is going to hit a million an ounce before Bitcoin.
It's a million points.
All right.
Let's move on.
All right.
Let's move on.
So SEC's Atkins embraces crypto innovation.
Is this SEC's new pro innovation stance?
Will with Chair Paul Atkins making crypto and tokenization his job one, a true turning point for U.S. regulation or just lip service in a post-Gensler error?
No, I think this is a true turning point. What did they call it? The program crypto or something like that, that they've got it going over there. I mean, the agenda at the SEC is to move on. It looks like, sounds like, seems like moving on Trump's agenda to make Bitcoin and crypto a significant part of the US economy. Can't do it without SEC approval.
if you look at what NASDAQ is talking about
and what we're talking about with the stablecoin legislation
you've got to get the SEC on board to tokenize everything
because the more you tokenize the more you need stablecoins
and then the more they can sell treasuries
so I think this is job one for them
and the SEC has been tasked with like let's get this thing going
but unfortunately they're closed
so to be determined
in how fast they can get it done
All right. To be determined. All right. That's awesome. Let's get on to the next one. Thanks for that. All right. Let's bring in Lindsay Stamp here. Our guest. The Uber Chronicles. How are you?
Good. How are you doing?
Really good. How did this all start? When did you find Bitcoin and when did you start Ubering for Bitcoin?
Yeah, so I started, you know, I was like most people where I owned Bitcoin some in like 2018, 2019, a little bit in 2021, but didn't know anything about it, just bought it, sold it for a couple hundred bucks, like when it went up and, you know, didn't really care about it until 2023, like the end of 2023.
somebody on Twitter reached out to me and was like, Hey, you should read this book,
broken money by Lynn Alden. I think you'd really like it. And, um, you know, I think it would be
good for you. Somebody, you know, at that time I was talking about traditional finance. I was
talking about Roth IRAs and 401ks and investing in real estate and you know taxable brokerage accounts And so this person who is well known on Twitter and on social media reached out to me about it and encouraged me to read some books
And so for four months, I pretty much just read books straight, Bitcoin books, was obsessed with
it and made my first purchase in February of 2024. And shortly after in like June, July of 2024 is
when I started driving Uber because I realized like, you know, this is a race to accumulate
the coin as fast as possible. So the money that I'm putting into it from my W2 job and the money
I'm putting into it from my rental properties is not enough. I need to earn more money and what can
I do? And that's when Uber started. You are a hustler. That's awesome. I got to ask you,
how many people are you orange pilling in your Uber driving? You know, it's not as many as I
would like, to be honest with you. You would be surprised how many people you just pick up and
take to work or take home from work and they just want to sit silently, you know, and they don't
even want to talk. But a company reached out to me and sent me Bitcoin hats and I've been wearing
them when driving Uber and that sparked some conversation. So more recently I've met other
Bitcoiners and like had people asking about it. So I think like having something in the car or
wearing some kind of merch might help me. So we'll see, I guess. I have tortured so many Uber
drivers at different Bitcoin conferences over the years where the poor suckers are just,
they're stuck listening to me ramble about Bitcoin for however long that would drive me.
It's good to see that it's going the other direction. And I'm wondering,
are you going to bring your vehicle and yourself to Bitcoin 2025 in Vegas?
I think that I'm not going to bring my Honda, but I think I'm going to bring myself and it'll
be my first conference so yes i am planning to come cool cool very good what kind of ubernomics
are there like uh should i pick up this person or that person how do you kind of do you have to face
that or you just go wherever are there any sort of uh ways to play the game differently yeah it's
actually funny you ask that because i was on another podcast this past weekend it's called
the rideshare guide podcast and um he basically interviews people that do uber lift doordash
Instacart, things like that. And he gives them tips and tricks on how to increase their earnings.
And I guess in the Uber world, I didn't know this until this weekend. There's people that are
cherry pickers and there's people that are ants and the cherry pickers just like take the best
rides when they pop up and the ants take every ride that pops up. So up until this weekend,
I just took every single ride. Like if it popped up on the screen, like I would accept it. My
acceptance rate was like 99%. And I come to find out doing this podcast over the weekend,
that that's actually not the best way to like increase your earnings or earn the most money
because the uber algorithm knows that you're going to accept the fare regardless of what it is so they
take a larger cut like a larger percentage of the fare um and when you decline them and you put like
uh not worth the time or there's like a button you can click of why you're declining it when you tell
them it's not worth the money they increase your fare to get you to accept more rides and then you
make more money so i'm gonna start like being more selective about the rides that i take and
what i accept but up until now i've just picked up every single ride that's popped up on my screen and
you know gone with it this is proof that time preference pays off again has your life plan
or goals changed sort of uh over the last you know whenever you started sort of i think you've
always been maybe on this journey of investing uh so has it changed with bitcoin in terms of uh
maybe your goals or what you your expectations are oh yeah um totally i would say that my goals
and my aspirations and like my life plan is completely different you know like a couple
years ago when i first started making content like i was like my goal was to have enough money coming
in from rental properties and dividends that i could quit my job like that's what i was going
towards. And now I don't own any dividend paying stocks. I've already sold one of my rental
properties this year. I'm getting ready to post another one of my properties for sale. I don't
want to do any of that. I would much rather find a way to just add value to the world and use my
money to save in Bitcoin. And I would like to work in Bitcoin and, you know, contribute to,
you know, the network and the space at a larger capacity, whatever that looks like. So yeah,
I think, you know, a couple of years ago, I was like, let me climb the corporate ladder,
you know, make as much as I can, invest as much as I can and try to buy assets.
And now I don't want to do any of that.
I think you already work in Bitcoin.
I think Ubering for sats is working in Bitcoin and chronicling is, and, you know, sort of
recording that and sharing with the world is even just sort of working in Bitcoin even
more is brand message.
So start sending us or, you know, in between rides, maybe start posting some of your Bitcoin thoughts.
I'd love to hear.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
Extend the videos a little and make some more content.
I think that's a good idea.
And when you get when you get off off here today, make sure to give Francis your contact information.
We want to send you some by federal swag to wear it when you're driving.
That'd be awesome.
I would love that.
Yeah.
You could tell people to go bank themselves.
at the high total
Bitcoin ATMs.
It's a nice way to say
what you want to say sometimes.
Exactly.
Necessary.
Thank you so much
for coming on the show.
Thanks, Lindsay.
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Appreciate it.
Yeah, definitely.
Anytime.
Bye, Satoshi.
That's Satoshi Pogamodo.
All right, let's head over
to the lightning round.
This is brought to you
by Byte Federal.
Go back to you.
oh zabo strikes adam back job zabo strikes back this is like empire strikes back
uh i'm just gonna kick it to you what what happened here man what's going on
zabo just basically said you know stop with the bs spam uh you're not you're uh you're gonna put
put the network at risk by allowing this spam.
It went into the CSAM debate and which, you know, people have been,
and Adam, one of them making the case that, you know,
nobody's going to be held liable for this.
I think Nick is right that it's an attack vector because if, you know,
right now, if you want to put CSAM on the Bitcoin network,
you're going to have to obfuscate it in a way where it's not easily seeable.
by anybody searching the blockchain.
You'd have to have proper software
to extract it from the blockchain.
If it's just in the operator and it's full images,
anybody's gonna be able to see it.
And then I think courts are gonna be able to make the case
that you as a node should have not forwarded this data.
The user node should not have supported
this transaction into the Bitcoin blockchain.
And that's a major risk.
So if you wanted to, I think if you wanted to attack Bitcoin, whereas the nodes are so decentralized, that's what makes the network robust.
And if you want to attack people and prevent people from running nodes, scare them, or actually make a case against particular node operators so that you could consolidate nodes into big corporations that would do what they're told and run filtering software to remove CSAM, then this is a way to attack Bitcoin.
So to me, it's obvious and I don't understand if it's just technical hubris, which allows you to sort of like ignore the obvious threat or if something else is going on.
But this whole technical debate that you can't prevent it.
So let's not worry about it, I think, is a major attack on Bitcoin.
Yeah, I don't know why we're opening up the gates.
It doesn't make any sense.
yeah we're still looking back at taproot
I was listening to Tone Vays
asking Adam back about this directly
you know
and to me it's like you're either
he's either fooling himself
with his own technical prowess
by not
contemplating that
a court is not going to see the world
through Dev's eyes a court is
going to simply see this as there's an image
you can see it you forwarded it
you're supporting it
So I think the legal logic that I think Dr. Adam Back is tracking is there's a developer at Blockstream who is a core developer and stated this sort of this logic.
I don't think it's logical, but sort of this statement or rationale of if you start to filter things, you're acknowledging that certain things shouldn't be there.
And now you're saying, oh, I am going to do my best to no, no, no, I'm going to do my best to keep those out.
And now the onus is on the user to keep it all out.
and this is weird.
I was talking to Tomer Storleit about this.
So he's like, that's like saying, okay,
your doors are not going to work perfectly,
so we should leave them open instead of like,
because the onus, if you close the door now,
if anyone comes in, it's your fault.
So it's like a weird logic.
If you try to defend yourself,
they're basically saying that we're acknowledging
that there are bad things here,
and now the onus is on us to defend,
and remove and keep 100% out,
or they will come after us.
And so it's like the reverse jujitsu logic
of like what you're saying.
I don't think it holds up,
but that's the train of thought.
I've seen that.
I've seen that hold up.
For instance, like down in the Keys,
when you're all the electrical poles
that are out in the water,
the boats can hit and people die hitting them every year.
There's no lights and there's no markers on those poles
because in order to put power,
they got this grandfather clause
that says they would never have to maintain them
in order to afford taking power all the way to Key West.
So they're not held liable every time somebody dies
by hitting one of these poles that are unmarked and unlit.
And the argument is, well, if you mark them and you lit them,
then you'd have to maintain it and then you'd be liable.
So I understand that argument,
but it comes with this sort of state power to give these companies a pass.
Bitcoin doesn't have that luxury.
Bitcoin's not inking a deal with the federal government saying,
hey, if we agree to share CSAM, you agree not to sue us ever, right?
No, that ain't going to happen.
Yeah, so I agree we're in a really bad place.
I thought that Adam Back raised a really great, you know, sort of pragmatic solution of just raise the kilobytes to 160.
Just double it, basically.
Let's give it an inch more.
Let's see where that goes.
Allow a little bit more scalability.
Whatever you want to say goes in there.
And, you know, I think that would have been a nice compromise.
I think now we're in a terrible place.
I've been saying this for weeks.
I think we're past the point of the Civil War.
I think it's already happened behind us.
And we're in it, and we don't know it.
But I also think that we are, I think the division amongst the nodes, with nodes running different clients, could end up making Bitcoin stronger.
It will.
But that's the point of a war.
I mean, we're going to get stronger, but we're going to have to test the anti-fragility to prove that.
I guess when I'm saying war, I don't know if this ends in a hard fork right now.
I don't know if it ends in a hard fork, but I think this is, well, I think this is headed towards a soft or a hard fork.
I think we have a problem on our hands with V30.
I mean, look, let's say worst case scenario,
we have 50% of the people running NOS, 50% of the people running CORE.
We need a third and fourth implementation.
If there's a CSAM attack on people running CORE,
then we'll know the answer.
We have to destroy CORE.
CORE has to go.
We have to destroy CORE.
And we have to come up with a new and better governance model.
I don't know that we need to destroy CORE.
I think we just need a large percentage of people running NOS.
because then the nodes will be resilient.
This is not working the way this is going, I think.
And this is, we're going to face bigger problems at some point
and we don't have a way to kind of deal with them anymore.
That's a good point.
We just don't, this is bad.
But look at it.
And so that part of the attack too is like,
oh, now we're like, we're static
and maybe we're ossifying in ways we shouldn't
because we're in a little like.
I still feel like if we had two or three clients
with two or three teams of developers
all competing to have a higher percentage of nodes running,
that's a better place to be.
I agree.
It needs to be three, four, five, six.
Because then they could both be developing
quantum-resistant technologies.
They could both be developing different security models.
I don't think there needs to be assigned teams
that are paid for by Bitcoiners.
I think that people need to volunteer
and get paid in ways that they,
like, I just don't think we should have people
that are hired, who have the title of,
who get to speak as, speak for, right?
Like it's contribution-based.
I mean, I love the idea of supporting these.
You don't get in.
But at the same time, it's like,
you should have so much Bitcoin
that your life depends on making this network
as robust as possible.
That should be your incentive.
Like if I'm worth billions.
And I think we're past the point where a human
can really sort of adjust, you know,
something that has 700,000 lines of code.
True.
And I think we have to figure out, like,
different ways of moving this vote.
Simplification.
Simplification and ways to move the design
and governance forward.
Because this is, I don't know.
So let's move on.
I feel like we're better off.
I'm excited for the next topic.
We'll run through these.
Bitmain's sweetheart deal with Eric Trump's firm.
Chinese mining giant Bitmain is giving Eric Trump's American Bitcoin Corp special treatment.
Thousands of rigs on buy now, pay later terms.
Does this raise red flags about foreign influence and favoritism in U.S. Bitcoin mining?
All right. You know how this deal works.
So this is great.
So they're giving, giving is really like the appropriate word.
They're giving the Trumps, not the Trumps, they're giving American Bitcoin mining,
which is also
merged with Hut8.
So there's a little bit of who's really
behind the legal deal. And there was mergers, and a lot of the mergers
was designed for this opportunity.
But this entity received 16,000
Bitmain miners,
and they get to pay later,
but up to two
years later in Bitcoin.
Nice. And they get the...
So, yeah.
So this really speaks to, like, when
Eric Trump was talking about their cost basis
of, like, 38,000, it was like,
I mean, I was like, that's really low.
I'm assuming that's because they're not,
he's not counting the money they're gonna pay back
for two years.
I don know how he comes up to that number but you know so maybe that on a cash basis Interesting But that does speak to sort of uh you know i don know if that enough to sort of capture you know the trump but
that would definitely like sort of gain influence and i think that's how politics are done in
america uh you know i'm not saying that's good or bad it sounds bad but i mean cut me a deal and
i'll set you up in a meeting with uh daddy yeah for something else you know i mean well here's a
Quote from in May at a Las Vegas Bitcoin conference sponsored by Bitmain,
the president of American Bitcoin, Matt Prusik,
underscored the political nature of the Bitcoin industry.
If you think you're in the energy business or compute business or Bitcoin
business, you're half right.
He told the audience underneath it all,
you're in the business of politics in the politics business.
Yeah.
You know, so of course they're looking for preferential accent.
You know, let's move on to the next one here.
I think that's just how things are done now.
Paul Tudor Jones pivots to gold.
What's going on here, Paul?
I mean, I don't know if it's a pivot.
His article was just like, you know, gold's doing really well
and likely it's going to outperform Bitcoin this year.
He didn't really change his position.
He still sees Bitcoin and gold as two primary assets in the portfolio.
And, you know, we'll see.
I don't know.
I think it was kind of a nothing burger.
It didn't really get me going one way or the other.
All right, let's move on to the next one here.
JP Morgan, Bitcoin trading.
Yes?
Custody?
No.
So JP Morgan greenlit client trading in Bitcoin
while pointedly refusing to custody it.
Is this just a prudent risk management
or does the bank still fundamentally distrust
actually holding Bitcoin?
Yeah, I think they distrust it.
don't think they want really much to do with it yet i think they're just dipping their toe in the
water they're gonna get involved um they're not doing custody uh you know jamie diamond is still
holding out on that but they're look they're an authorized uh what is an ap on the etf so they're
making money there they're gonna do some trading i think this is really more about stable coins
uh and and sort of they they have their own stable coin coming out he did mention that that custody
would probably follow i think it will follow she says i think it will follow right now i think
they'll have coinbase sort of hold their probably their stable coin to start i think custody will
follow maybe that will come through acquisition or they'll develop their own rails but uh and
wallets but they're just taking their time yeah who knows what sort of direction they're getting
from the u.s government maybe to kind of play this this part of the field and stay off this other part
of the field you know so i mean once you know he's gonna he's the custodian for the gold etf
And then once they do what you say they won't do, which I'm going to hold you to this, when they revalue the gold on the U.S. balance sheet, then JPMorgan will be interested in custody and Bitcoin.
And I'll just go in and ink some massive deal and just start taking it all from Coinbase.
Right. Well, we'll see. You know, a little tip. I mean, Larry Lepard's partner, David Foley, his brother is at JP Morgan and like really close to Jamie Dimon.
Oh, you know, so, you know, I'm sure Jamie, you know, I'm sure he's heard from some smart people on Bitcoin.
Oh, yeah. You know, or will soon. We'll see.
All right.
Is it me?
It's you, baby.
All right. Jack Dorsey calls out Tether's donation.
Jack Dorsey ridiculed Tether's $250,000 donation to Bitcoin devs as a rounding error.
Why only $250,000?
Does this shame crypto companies into funding more open source development
or just highlight that legacy Bitcoiners like Jack are carrying the load alone?
Yeah, I mean, it is kind of a small number for Tether.
I mean, that's like chump change at Tether.
i mean uh why i don't like i just don't where does that donation go how do the devs run it also
too like i i think this is not good i don't think this is what you don't think i don't know i don't
i don't explain this to me so tether gives 250 000 of big devs bitcoin devs who are they
uh why do they get the money yeah what do they do with the money it was brink uh is there a contest
i guess brink was uh one of the ones that i know jack is i'm not i don't know exactly where tether's
donation went but and it's not a lot of money i agree it's not the other side of it tether is
trying to build stuff that they believe is freedom tech and sovereign tech like they're trying to
build their own and deliver it as a product to people um which tether yeah yeah okay they're
trying to build freedom tech you know self-sovereign it's really hard to believe that
they're gonna have some end game of freedom is saying i i know i know but that's just hard to
remains to be seen right sure i don't know i think you're getting fed uh you're getting fed a story
there now let's go on to the next one uh naval calls out lynn alden oh gosh these tech guys i'm
gonna let these speak for themselves oh man what are you all tells out lynn alden for being behind
the curve for not understanding zcash the question is is this a coordinated pump of zcash from
silicon valley valley or is it simply so they can dump it on investors why are so many big names
are falling in the trap dude i'm just gonna read bit pain i'm just gonna read his tweet
the entire zcash pump and dump scam is such a narrative to begin with
like even if zcash transactions were reliably reliably private they aren't why the f would i
buy it as an investment if the utility is private payments and somehow by some miracle i find the one
out of one million people willing to accept zcash why would i not just immediately prior to the
transaction exchange real money i.e bitcoin for the for the regarded pseudo private vc scam why
hold it? Why invest in it? There is no value or cruel thesis. The scammers are getting so lazy
and low energy. This is the 2023 sleepy Joe Biden of shit coin scams. At least come up with some
half sensible thesis to dump your bags. Come on, you worthless cunts. You can do better than this.
Believe in you. Mint and NFT are some shit. 2021 scammery was so much more exuberant.
I don't even think these guys see it as a scam because this is their entire business
model in VC.
Sure.
So if they've got a bag of stuff,
they're incentivized to sell it
to the next
greater fool.
Yeah, but Naval's going to stake his rep
on this one. I mean, it's kind of
done in a way. Especially going
after Lin Alden so hard.
He could have slid it under him.
I think Zcash is cool. I think it is a use case.
You said the same thing about Elon with Doge.
What do you mean?
The Dogecoin BS that he was
Terrible. Well, I think Elon's an idiot.
I thought Naval.
I didn't think Naval's an idiot.
Yeah, well,
Chamath, as we know, is an
FVC Facebook guy.
Come on.
Let's go next one.
Teal is probably a
volcanic Satan
lizard, dude. I don't know.
Let's go on to the next one.
What is the next one? You're up.
Okay.
Un momento.
Bitcoin shrugs
as bank jitters.
U.S. regional bank stocks are sliding
and bond yields are whips on.
That's not the one.
That's not the one, man.
Japan, baby.
Japan may let banks hold Bitcoin.
If Japan's financial regulator
greenlights banks to hold Bitcoin
and even run crypto exchanges,
are we on the verge of a domino effect
in global banking adoption?
Or will conservative risk rules
keep traditional finance
from going full orange pilt?
Daddy Orange said,
you guys need to get your shit going here
because we're about to switch to stable coins and Bitcoin.
So you better figure that out over there.
The yen carry trade is done.
So you're going to start holding Bitcoin.
So, I mean, it's literally that's, you know,
they're just doing what we tell them to do, right?
So they're just, they say, oh, okay,
SAP 121 is repealed.
Banks are going to start doing crypto and stable coins
in the United States.
We need to do the same thing.
Let's get our act together.
It's as simple as that.
But the thing people are missing is this doesn't happen fast.
I don't care if it's Jesus Christ himself coming out of the clouds and saying, banks, you will hold Bitcoin.
This is not going to happen fast.
Banks are so far behind the curve from a technological perspective.
They have 1980s DOS operating systems.
They cannot just jump into a crypto future.
They have, and it breaks their entire rehypothecation business model.
This is a totally new line of business
It's highly technical
And banks are going to be
The big Wall Street banks will do it
But your local community bank
Is going to have a hard time
I don't care dude
Their technical infrastructure is so archaic
I agree
And their compliance is so
I agree
That's interesting
You take a BSA officer
at a bank and say, you're going to now have automated KYC
through a technical interface on a cell phone.
And that BSA officer is going to panic. They're going to panic
and throw the biggest hissy fit. And the compliance officers at the banks run the banks.
They run them. So this is not happening
anytime soon because these are hall monitors that are used to their clipboards.
Maybe the banks that move slower die.
yeah but not all banks are going to die
the big Wall Street banks will take it all
yeah 100% alright
we'll have bank accounts on our cell phones
we'll bank ourselves through our cell phones
and it'll be connected to a larger bank
a Wall Street bank
community banks are smoked
that's my opinion
so go bank yourself baby
fight federal
hit like and subscribe
let's go on to the next one here
I can't wait for this one
we have these dollar
There are bills in our pocket, backed by the government,
and that's what money is.
And the purchasing power of the dollar never goes up.
The dollar only goes down.
It's just a question of when will it utterly fail?
We can't be trapped in our bubble of the United States
like it'll never happen here.
It could certainly happen here.
No, I'm not Satoshi.
The money that people are familiar with
are regulated and controlled.
Bitcoin is freedom money.
Bitcoin's coming in!
It's a new technology where the power is in the hands of the people.
You want to send money and receive money?
This is outside the bank, bro.
And it's much better.
Bitcoin is a hyped-up fraud.
The asset itself is creating nothing.
I would short it if there was an easy way to do it.
I think it's a scum ball activity.
There's not that many people who want to buy pet rocks right now.
The pet rock probably has more value because at least it's a rock.
Crypto is financing terrorism and human trafficking and drug dealing.
Do criminals use Bitcoin?
Of course.
Criminals use all useful tools.
Cars, cell phones, food and water.
Governments do not like Bitcoin.
They cannot control it.
We want the Bitcoin.
We're going to seize your money.
That freedom is powerful.
Governments would be removed from their ability to manipulate currency.
Bitcoin works because the software works.
And the software works because there are people maintaining it.
In tomorrow's world, we will tell our children,
instead of buy real estate, we'll tell them buy Bitcoin.
Some girls know I do, they're my axe for some cryptocurrency.
You go to Central America, South America, Africa.
These are markets that see Bitcoin as a necessity.
I've seen countries now adopting Bitcoin as a legal tender that opens up the whole world.
A lot of Nigerians don't choose banks.
I do not have IDs.
All those things are required to open a bank account.
Not everyone has, believe it or not, equal access to finances.
I remember being 40 years old and having $200 and that being my entire life savings and
thinking to myself, what is going on?
I am Olin Bithgut. There is no Bangat Gah.
It is truly taking on its own
life. Once you have knowledge, well, what are you
going to do with it? How are you going to change?
Yeah, I love it.
Me too. It's awesome.
It's playing here in Sarasota.
When? I just doxxed us, sorry.
Yeah, no, it's playing
over the Halloween weekend, I believe it comes out.
Yeah, I think that's going to play a lot of places
on Halloween, probably on the 31st.
Yeah, the day of the white paper.
I mean, the story, the meme,
it's all going mainstream.
I could see a movie like that popping off
or blowing up on a Netflix if,
but I think it would be predicated by
a very climatic bull run.
This is going to kick it off, right?
I don't know if this, that could kick it off,
but I'm saying like for it to really gain traction
and wide viewership, I think people would come
if Bitcoin was already up
multiples from here.
Give it time.
Yeah, no.
Okay, let's see.
That looked dope.
I loved it.
They did a good job.
It looks good.
I think we should get them on the show.
Let's do it.
Let's move on to the next one.
All right.
Just Bitcoin shrugs at bank jitters.
Is this a risk asset or a refuge here?
Oh.
Sorry.
I didn't realize you were asking me that question.
I think it's
Neither
It's not
I mean
It is sort of acting
A little bit like a risk asset
But not really
It's been going sideways for a year
The NASDAQ's been ripping
S&P's been going up
Bitcoin's going sideways
If you chop off
The start of this bull run
At post-halving
And then you just look at 2025
it's going sideways
S&P up, NASDAQ up
gold up, silver up
so I mean has it been acting as a safe haven?
no not necessarily
because you know safe havens would say
when there's an issue with the banking system
that Bitcoin should run
people should be flying
you know why it's not acting like a safe haven
Bitcoin is like come put all your money
in these Bitcoin treasury companies
and they're down 60 70 80 90 percent people are like this thing i'm fucked like all the momentum
from this year is kind of drawn in there yeah that's a good you know it's a good and i i still
say you know it's like that diluted purchasing power bitcoiners but how many i mean how many
mnavs now are at one or slightly below um like 16 out of the 100 or something like that or
you know yeah yeah including metaplanet i believe which is like the number two
They're number four ranked, but like sort of below one.
I think they are like 0.97 or last I checked.
I mean, things have fluctuated since then.
If Bitcoin starts its run if we have an end of the year run it could change that for a lot of those companies real fast Right So one that remains to be seen were they just early too early to what is it a long thing whether they were early you know whether this you know i still think we have a long ways to go before bitcoin is
seen as a safe haven right i don't think it gets really seen as a safe haven from the math i mean
obviously bitcoiners believe but maybe they permanently trade believe one like if you think
about you maybe compare it to like sort of gold like you know like you think about like one 1.1
you have management risk you have leverage you have different sort of like things that you could
say you have operating business expense or just not even operating business like
if acquiring bitcoin is the operating business even that has an expensive okay
but the treasury companies have uh payroll they have hr they have compliance they have legal
they have the the strategy team like they have the bonuses like these things are dragged on
know in some ways maybe i don't know yeah but what i was getting at was that if you know the treasuries
real treasuries not treasury companies u.s trades has been the safe haven asset for the last 40 years
and until that starts to meaningfully break down due to inflation uh then you know that's when you
should see gold and bitcoin start to look be looked at as a safe haven and we've been seeing
that gold is being looked at as a safe haven obviously it's been it's been doing great this
year on this risk that liquidity is going to lead to inflation right um and and bitcoin hasn't hasn't
yet caught up or it hasn't yet responded um because i still think people are viewing it as a technology
the mass market i mean bitcoiners are looking at it as a safe haven because it can't be confiscated
it can't be censored yeah i think they also think even if they think it's a second that they also
think they missed it i do think that they missed it i think that there's lindsay they feel like
it's a less asymmetric bet lindsey doesn't and she's bringing on yeah no sure she recognizes the
value and sort of the future potential that still remains yeah yeah so let's move on to the next one
here um china freezes big tech stable coins so beijing has quietly forced tech giants to shut
down stable fund project does this signal a crackdown on yuan competitors a strike at tether
demand or a broader escalation in the economic war that could push bitcoin into the spotlight
that's interesting so i do think we're seeing this well they're keeping they want they don't
want stable coins in hong kong hong kong passed an initiative to launch table coins and the major
chinese banks not from hong kong like we're going to get in that into that pilot program
and then china was like whoa that's not really cool and so i can see why they don't want any sort
of uh stable coins in hong kong that's not they want to export controls there and that's their
transition to the west and they monitor that very closely and that's key for them
uh i think we're going towards this world where it's going to be gold
and uh cbdc's not necessarily stable coins like the dollar and then uh on the other side it's going
to be bitcoin reserves and hash power and um stable coins so i think countries like canada
are aligning with us by selling their gold they're uh aligning themselves with the west or the the
states and the way the states are going to a bitcoin network and hash power i think in a way
selling your gold is aligning with us i think uh el salvador uh moving to stable you know having
tether there and moving to bitcoin is aligning with us that's that's where i kind of see this
going yeah but so if you're if you're china right you're going to shut this down because you you want
to prevent capital flight right and you want to control your currency as much as possible right
but what's to prevent a chinese individual from using um a tour browser and downloading a tether
wallet and uh maybe send you know having an account in hong kong and then sending converting
into stable coins right but they're not going to let a hong kong bank launch it or the hong kong
government launch it or yeah or and they're going to threaten that person with jail but i mean with
with decentralized exchanges you should be able to convert yeah they're just not gonna let this
happen in a centralized fashion and they're not gonna they're gonna fight it as far as hard as
they can speed bump but if you're an individual in china uh or even a business in china you're
kind of incentivized to to look at these things but not if they're not but also not really they're
not gonna make it easy for you but they're not gonna allow it probably in the news and they're
they're not gonna just like they banned uh bitcoin trading and they banned but you know
where the number one with the most mining in the world is right now where the most mining in the
world is in china as someone told me at the conference not states like i thought all right
let's move on to the last one here or the next one 450 million bitcoin statue on alcatraz yeah
a bitcoin miner is proposing a 450 foot prometheus statue on alcatraz island
bold vision of bitcoin's cultural triumph or peak crypto hubris and who's going to explain
this to national park service what is this and so bitcoin miner uh whose name i can't remember
uh had proposed this idea and i guess he's pitched it to the administration um it's 450 million or
450 feet both both yes and what is it made out of gold no it's made out of uh
nickel and some other metals a half a billion yeah nickel yeah but i mean it's a big statue
i don't get it uh that's what you would say wouldn't that person buy bitcoin peak
this is regarded i think it would be uh i don't get it like a non-profit
uh project but if this thing got erected and all of a sudden new york had the largest
alcatraz though this is alcatraz san francisco yeah but that i'm sorry yeah um that uh which
has been shut down right so if all of a sudden san francisco had the largest that's right
related statue in the world it's almost like the same signal you get on times magazine when
some country builds the largest building in the world right and it's the top of the market when
you say shut down do you you mean the prison or you mean the tourist destination yeah okay
have you been to alcajos no i've been a few times uh well i'm not gonna i'm gonna quit doxing my
family fair enough uh i won't tell you why i was in alcares i won't dox myself all right i think
that's the end of the show i do we have any um q a in the chat francis hit like and subscribe this
is bitcoin center brought to you by bite federal go bank yourself you got the point of sale the
crypto wallet and the bitcoin atms hope you guys are enjoying the show we do it every tuesday at 8
p.m eastern this will be what the statue looks like
yeah you satoshi
you satoshi say goodbye bye bye everybody
good dog all right i'm gonna try to
yeah i predict the gold inflation rate is going to go up like 10 because now
now they can burn 4k worth of diesel for every hour so what do you think is going to happen with
gold do you think gold's going to go to 16 000 an ounce no he's got a great point right i mean
well said robert yeah four i love that four thousand dollars worth of diesel for every ounce
what do you think is going to happen i mean gold just pulled back a little bit yeah it's at 4100
didn't change I mean the RSI hasn't really been um diverging yet so I think I think gold could
still move for quite some time in the upper direction do you think it's the canary in the
coal mine do you think if you're like who's buying that much I mean if you were not a bitcoiner right
now yes like you were like I'm ignoring that I'm trad fi I got my value ETFs I got this that
what would and you were not a gold bug let's say as well you weren't a hard money guy but you were
investor yeah you know just protect your family i don't mean like you're a hedge fund guy would you
i mean gold would still i think it's a non-gold bug who invests you'd be like what is gold saying
right now wouldn't you at 60 for the year yeah like wouldn't you be drawn to figure that out yeah
and i mean how how much farther is it from that to like bitcoin is the fastest growing etf of all
time like a hundred billion is in ibit like the first like nine months or something crazy like
that how we how you as a non-bitcoiner and the non-goldberg not looking at like just where the
alpha is i'm just saying like i'm i am lacking sympathy for people who are like uh i'm ideologically
opposed but like you just you're not going to protect yourself against inflation right i'm
I'm talking about the people who are managing their portfolio,
a doctor, a dentist, a plumber, a teacher,
anyone who has savings, who's doing it themselves.
Not someone who plugs it into their 401k,
who's like, look, I'm going to retire in 30 years.
The 401k people do the algorithm.
I'm giving all those people forgiveness.
I'm saying anyone who's like sitting down
with a piece of paper and a pen or a laptop
and is like, what should I do with this amount of money
that I do every year, every quarter?
How are they just ignoring what gold is saying?
because most people uh do have cognitive dissonance when it comes to things they believe in
and if they've been following people they've been telling them gold is a pet rock for the last 40
years it's hard for them to break that mental model and admit to it they think gold's going up
because crazy people are buying it don't people just like kind of list off like the dow like you
know the s&p and like look at like the gold has been one year three year five year ten year returns
Isn't that how it starts?
The investment management committee has looked at gold as a piece of junk for as long as I've been in it.
Well, I'm not even just saying go buy gold.
I'm saying as a non-gold bug investor, as a non-Bitcoin investor,
at some point you have to react to what's happening in the real world.
Yeah, but then it's also too late.
Right, but then you say, okay, where next?
If I'm too late on...
Did you see that guy, the finance guy?
Guy talks finance.
I mean, the kid finally came around to Bitcoin.
he was like every time bitcoin went down i would shit on it and then and then it just but it always
came back so he's like finally i'm like you know what like like i'm in like wait this is funny
it's probably engagement farming i mean he's really good at like i think you know but whether
it's engagement farming or not it reads i think like someone's real journey right um
oh man we need more haters not lovers that's true but like he's been hating for a long time
yeah there he is uh we'll roll out to this so in the past whenever bitcoin dropped like this i
would make fun of being of it being a store of value i would think this would finally be the
time bitcoin would collapse i was wrong every time so this time i'm using the drop as a buying
opportunity.
That's kind of like, you know,
at the beginning of the year.
We're going to 70K for sure now.
You know, I mean, he's really kind of...
Listen to this.
The internet shut down for half the day and I had zero access
to my retirement investment
accounts. I did still have access
to my physical gold and
any Bitcoin on a cold storage wallet.
Maybe there is something to this
decentralized thing.
You know,
you know i mean there's yeah this is someone who's been like looking you know it's like probably like
28 or 32 years old who's like just got married trying to figure out how to buy a house he was
like for a year and a half trying to figure out if you should rent or buy and trying to figure out
like renting you make you do a little better but like you have you can't make sort of lifestyle
choices around like putting in a water filter or something there's a long time trying to figure
that out trying to figure out where to put his money in the which etf and really trying to figure
out how to one day
just retire and
raise a family. Not retire early.
Just one day
retire. How did I feel for these guys?
If I was a millennial or Gen Z,
I would be
doing radical things
because they're just
the unlucky generation
is turning this. None of my
close friends own Bitcoin. They mostly all
own homes. They buy stocks and
talking about the stock market. But they think
Bitcoin is too risky and speculative.
Soon they realized that not owning Bitcoin is the bigger risk.
We are still early.
Many people are asking me what changed my mind about Bitcoin.
There was no book I read or no new piece of content that I saw.
Honestly, I just decided to stop being so arrogant towards it
and stop pretending like I knew what was going to happen.
Historically, every collapse has been a buying opportunity.
So I'm deciding to hop on board this round.
I'll happily have my initial views be proven wrong
while I make money with the Bitcoin community.
Thanks for the warm welcome.
I mean, you know, it's never too late to admit you might be wrong on something.
Sometimes once you see something, you cannot see it.
Then there's no going back.
There's no, there's zero chance the government pays off the national debt.
There's 100% the chance the debt overload causes Bitcoin and gold to go higher and higher.
You know?
She's a 10 out of 10, but won't Bitcoin and chill dump her?
you know it's you know like michael r sullivan friend of the show yeah he wrote fucking legend
bitcoiners can get incredibly toxic when people criticize the orange coin guy talks finance has
been on the receiving end of that as much as anybody to look past that and still check out
bitcoin despite the negativity is incredibly commendable in my opinion this was someone who
used to troll us like shift like where it was like i think he believed it i don't know about
like shift but like it was getting him a lot of traction and there was a lot of opportunity to do
it and we would fight it and it would get you know the non-bitcoiners loved it uh but then one
day says hey look you know like i was wrong every time like i'm my my eyes aren't deceiving me
yeah you know i think that's why i don't have some empathy for people who are trying to do this and
just ignoring it over and over i'm not talking about people who don't pay any attention i can
see why that gets by them i just i'm getting nervous about everybody being so pro-bitcoin
well the government being pro-bitcoin is weird and all you know all of us uh not you and me but
people rooting that on not that i think it like kills bitcoin no but things are changing though
makes me feel like we're due for a big correction at some point when this is done well it's nice to
see zabo back huh yeah yeah you know let's get a little toxic yeah that too right let's defend
every bitcoin cycle has slayed a hero every cycle i've been in a slate a hero well it's not again
And there should be no heroes, though.
There shouldn't be.
Yeah.
So no, we shouldn't even have heroes to slay.
But I get now people kind of.
It happens all the time in the Bitcoin space.
Yeah.
People that you thought like, oh, my God, this guy's a legend.
Oh, he's a hero.
He's brilliant.
Blah, blah, blah.
And then a year later, you're going like, what the hell?
Ideas have people, you know?
So we'll see.
We'll see.
They have good ideas, you know what I mean?
We'll see who that is.
We'll see where it goes.
All right.
Thank you so much for tuning in, folks.
Thanks for joining us.
See you next week.
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