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what's up how are you man i'm okay somber notes but yeah well i hope we don't keep it that way

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no we're gonna send them we gotta send uh keone off with uh a hopeful future for uh things that

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could arise and uh well hopefully we have to think positively to support him and his family and make

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sure that uh we do everything we can we definitely need more people to sign the stain petition

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yeah maybe we can keep them out of jail entirely i mean i think that would be really an injustice

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bill and you only spent one night in jail that would be an injustice so uh we're gonna have a

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live streamathon we're gonna bring in as many people as we can to show love and support for

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them and have a bit of a send-off party kind of have as much uh you know good vibes as we can put

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out yeah right i'm jamming to some big daddy notorious b1 here uh this is on earth from the

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the diddy uh saga this came out like nine months before biggie put out this kind of this exact beat

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and basically flow i think i guess it's kind of fitting right yeah criminals don't go to jail and

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the good guys do things aren't always what they seem no so um let's we'll let people roll in

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then we'll play the channel trailer for bitcoin matrix kind of set the stage and then we'll

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introduce the show let's do it um i'm looking forward to seeing everybody you know um it's good

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to see you likewise how was your weekend oh it was great you know great weather down here in florida

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can't really beat that um how was your weekend it was nice had some uh christmas cheer

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friends family yeah the christmas vibe is out happy holidays everybody hanukkah started christmas is

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days away um keone and his family would be spending or celebrating christmas tomorrow

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awesome well yeah i mean we're gonna lucky to be with his family right now but um you know it sucks

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to celebrate it early for these reasons i think we have shannon coming on to play a little christmas

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jingle yeah shannon fitzgerald former mtv showrunner uh she's been working really hard

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behind the scenes there's been a lot of people pulling together uh trying to get the word out

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um fraud interviewed uh keone today uh puncher 75 has been really you know getting the word out

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jesse tevlov kind of brought me in and i think kind of kicked this whole thing off um angela

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mccardle uh former president libertarian party working hard behind the scenes um so hopefully

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those people come out larry pard kind of has gotten on board um of late so parker lewis um

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Yeah. Tony Mittenberger. We'll say hi to everybody tonight, hopefully.

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So what are your thoughts?

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I mean, you know, it's obvious to me, right?

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And I think probably everybody that the plea is not the real issue here, right?

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What these guys had to plea to is not what they're going to jail for.

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And so this is a war on privacy and it's a war on freedom.

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It's a war on our rights as citizens of the United States.

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And I don't know if enough Bitcoiners have really realized the magnitude of the situation.

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Well, do you think this is just Bitcoiners?

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No, it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be.

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But I'm really bummed out that we don't have more people signing the petition.

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This is not, you know, I like, I mean, we're all here, but there's a lot of Bitcoiners out there that aren't.

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And we'd like, you know, we need to make sure that they realize what they own and they realize how important development in this space is, how important self-custody is, your privacy is.

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And it's a slippery slope.

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So we have to fight this fight as strong as we can.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I feel this personally and viscally.

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I'm ashamed for this country that

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Bill and Keone are fighting this for us

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We're taking the heat

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So let's roll the Bitcoin Matrix trailer

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Set the stage and then we'll get the show going

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Basically we're living through the matrix now

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It's realistic enough that it feels real, but it's just not real.

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Fiat keeps you on the hamster wheel forever and ever and ever.

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Your average fiat paper, you put it under your mattress, it's lost half of its value.

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Fiat is stressful, and not having enough money to pay the bills and maxing out your credit cards and paying 21% interest rates is super stressful.

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The average fiat currency or total fiat currency supply increases at around 14% per year.

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Well, 40% means you lose 50% in five years.

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They've broken this natural order of life

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where they just figured out that you don't have to work.

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We have a solution to this.

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The solution is very clear.

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Thank God Bitcoin has been invented.

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Think about the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve.

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They have such an opportunity here

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to recapitalize America's balance sheet.

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The Bitcoin network and the software and the protocol

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are extremely stable.

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Once I put it in cyberspace, it's not just immortal, it's pure energy.

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Bitcoin is the exact opposite, right?

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It gives you a low time preference.

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It actually not only preserves your purchasing power, but it appreciates your purchasing power over time.

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What that means is prices continue to fall against Bitcoin forever.

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It can return us to an economy of saving, an economy of something based on value.

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I think that is literally like Bitcoin's time to shine, to show the world that it is a safe haven asset.

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If there's a strategic Bitcoin reserve, we're going to see the price of Bitcoin go up and there could be a game theory phenomenon happening.

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Bitcoin will never die as long as there's one person alive in this world that yearns for freedom.

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Rather than waving flags in the street to protest things we don't believe in politically, we're going to use the power of cryptography to technologically defend human rights.

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Bitcoiners are very optimistic and hopeful for the future.

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And Bitcoiners understand what's broken and they understand that they have the solution.

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And then all of the $900 trillion of capital is going to pursue it on some level.

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My God, it's the best drug on earth. There's nothing like it.

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I've done cocaine, Cedric. This is better than cocaine. It feels amazing.

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Bitcoin is a chance to be part of something that will have more of a lasting impact on the world

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than anything else you could possibly be involved in.

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It's a more robust platform.

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And this thing comes in peace.

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It's not looking to destroy them.

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It's not declaring war on them.

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It's declaring peace on everyone.

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It says, come if you want.

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You have to believe that you are the kind of person who can participate in the Bitcoin story.

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welcome back to bitcoin center so our live stream brought to you by byte federal

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check out byte federal's bitcoin atms point of sale and bitcoin wallet then take self-custody

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of bitcoin and go bank yourself my name is cedric youngelman and i'm joined by my co-host paul

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tarantino dude that was uh i love our bitcoin family that intro just it gets me fired up every

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time man you just like you're on there thanks yeah no seriously like the bitcoiners are the

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best you guys are the best you guys uh speak the truth you speak from your heart and we love you

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for that and we want to share that with kiyoni tonight so thank you for joining us yeah thank

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you for joining us on this emergency broadcast of a live streamathon uh part to get the word out for

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signing a petition and pardon samurai and it's a bit of a send-off party for our good friend

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Keone Rodriguez and Bill who can't be with us tonight. So let's get right into it. Francis,

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if you could roll the Bitcoin Center intro and we'll bring out Keone.

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Let's be real, right? Praising Telegram for launching a Bitcoin wallet.

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I've always felt like

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Bitcoin, this digital

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currency that's out there

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that people say, oh, it might be the next big thing.

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What do you think?

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I think it's rat poison.

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You never heard them a few weeks ago?

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Now everybody's talking about them.

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But is it a currency?

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I don't know. Or is it more like a stock?

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Or is it a tulip bowl?

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Stupid. To me, it smells like Ponzi scheme

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and the greater fool theory writing.

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You do like five minutes

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of freaking research.

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Well, thanks for coming to my set talk.

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Yes.

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Don't buy shit.

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Oh, man, I was getting that wrong.

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All right.

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Bitcoin's recent rally.

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Do you agree?

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Is crypto finally dead?

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Go to the next one.

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Matter of fact, they're kind of in the Ethernet.

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What are they?

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Some rumors that it's a Japanese guy, but they know that he's a fake name.

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It was a pseudonym.

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I mean, you're literally putting real money onto a system that we don't even know who created it.

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It will come to a bad ending.

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Is this the most exciting bull run ever?

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Not for me.

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No, it's not.

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Welcome to Bitcoin Center, the fast-paced show where the debate is the story.

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All right, well, I don't think we're doing much debating tonight.

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No, no debates tonight.

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Let's get into it.

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Love and appreciation.

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Yeah, let's go.

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we have a lot of people in the waiting room so we'll try to cycle through as best we can

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Keone thank you for joining us absolutely thank you guys you said somber notes at the beginning

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no let's not do any more somber notes we're gonna have a good time tonight you know I'm very happy

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that you invited me here and let's let's have a good time yeah awesome awesome wow you seem to be

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in great spirits how how would you describe how you're holding up otherwise uh you know I'm tired

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I've done so many interviews and recordings over the last week.

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This is my last one.

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And I wanted it to be, you know, I don't want people to be depressed or downtrodden.

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I want them to be fired up, you know, and to say, hey, this is something that isn't right.

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Let's do something about it.

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Let's let's get this in front of the president.

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Let's see if we can make something happen and not feel defeated.

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I'm not feeling defeated.

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so you guys shouldn't either. Awesome. So Keone, maybe before we jump into Trump,

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if, you know, from everything you've experienced in the last year and more,

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people that want, you know, maybe there's other developers out there that want to pick up the

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torch and go to the next level. What advice, what guidance would you give them to keep pushing

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for freedom and privacy? Yeah, I mean, I think there's two types of advice, right? One is more

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practical and one is more philosophical. On the philosophical side, use this experience that Bill

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and I are going through as your fire, right? Like the whole point of this prosecution was to chill

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privacy tech in the United States by an out-of-control Biden DOJ and Biden administration

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who were upfront and clear that they were against crypto. They didn't like it. So the whole point

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was to create this chilling effect. And as a builder, that should tell you, that's the exact

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type of thing I should be building. If the government is saying, don't do it, we don't want

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you to do it, that's what you should be focusing on. So have that fire in your belly and know that

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this is so important. It's so important that the might of the federal government needed to be

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brought down on Bill and myself to stop it. And then from a more practical point of view,

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we now know explicitly that the law doesn't really matter. Even though we were well within

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the law and what we were doing and we felt secure in doing what we were doing openly,

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they don't play by the same rules that they expect us to play by.

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So knowing that, take precautions, right?

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Don't be more anonymous.

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Be careful with what platforms you're on.

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Telegram, for example, might not be super safe.

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If Twitter or X, you know, unless you're taking real good care of your operational security,

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it might not be the best place.

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But that's not enough of a reason to not do it.

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If you're able to get legal representation as soon as you can, have them write their opinion

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down on paper and give it to you If you have the means put down a pretty large retainer at a good law firm who can represent you if things go south That something I wish we would have done

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It made it really difficult when we were arrested and told we couldn't use Bitcoin

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to obtain legal counsel when you don't have anything but Bitcoin. Had we done that before

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arrest, it would have made things a lot less stressful. Ultimately, it all worked out. We

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were able to find counsel. But just from a stress point of view, it would have been a lot easier had

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we taken those steps before. But of course, we thought, hey, what we're doing is legal. We have

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crypto-focused attorneys who have looked at this and said it's legal. Everyone in the industry

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thought it was legal. Now we know that doesn't matter. If you make anything consequential and

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get people to use it and the powers that be don't like it, they will come after you.

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So be prepared for that.

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And preparation is the name of the game.

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So if you're prepared for it, you feel more comfortable doing it.

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So I think that's the best advice I can give.

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Don't stop.

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Don't let them win.

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Don't let the chilling effect happen.

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Build the tools.

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Yeah, well, we still have time and we're going to get the word out.

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There's a lot of people who've been working behind the scenes, and there's a lot of people that have been making as much noise as possible, and they want to party with you, and they want to be with you.

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So let's start bringing people in, and let's get this party started.

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Paul, you're going to drink us some wine.

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We're drinking some wine.

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We'll pour it down our throats.

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So, Jess, Jesse, you brought me on board and really instrumental in getting the word out to the entire Bitcoin community.

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And I think this is bigger than just Bitcoin.

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But just how did this come your way?

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And what has this experience been like for you?

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And can you show maybe some love and support for Keone?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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First of all, thank you, Cedric, for doing this.

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Thanks for having me.

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And thank you, Keone, for being who you are and for being such an incredible person.

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I got brought into this.

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I had heard about this, actually.

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I had heard about the product over the years and I had heard that there were some rumblings of

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something, you know, happening with it, with the product. I didn't really know too much about it.

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And then I heard on Bitcoin Today with Bob Van Kirk and Puncher and the whole crew there.

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And, you know, I often am on that on on that show and it struck me immediately. And I kind of put

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the pieces together and said, wait, is this that thing I had been hearing about? And then hearing

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Bob talk about it, it sounded very bad. And I got in touch immediately that day. That was Friday of

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last week, right? Keone? Yeah. Got in touch with you immediately, said, hey, look, man,

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I want to get on and do an interview and I want to post it immediately because I knew about the

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deadline. That's what got me. I was like, this is crazy and we have to do something. And, you know,

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I was talking to Puncher directly. Puncher is a good friend of mine at this point. I've been

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hanging out with him a lot over the past year. And I knew that he was bothered by it. And he said,

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look, can I jump on to the interview? I said, of course, that would be amazing. And both of us,

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you know, I dropped everything for the day, said I need to focus on this. I think Puncher pretty

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much was doing the same thing. And by Saturday, Keone, when we posted it, I mean, by the weekend,

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I think it was 100,000 views and a lot of people knew about it. And then we went back on Bitcoin

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today. And it's been tremendous. It's just, I, um, I guess what I would like to say,

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cause I know there's a lot of people that want to get up here. There's a lot of people that are

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helping and there's so many unsung heroes in this. And I want people to understand that this

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is completely organic. It was organic with me and it's been organic with everybody. Cedric,

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you included, right? I mean, you've been tremendous, you know, you've been on the

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back channels with me putting in work and, you know, Keone's exhausted, you know, we're all

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pretty exhausted. I'm not sleeping much. And I just want to say like Keone is incredible. He's

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been incredible through this whole thing. And Keone, I think you are an example for, you know,

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everything that we're fighting for. Everything, literally everything, not just Bitcoin, but

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humanity, human rights, America, kindness, truth. I mean, you name it, anything good.

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I truly believe that this guy, Keone Rodriguez

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And his partner, Bill

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Who I haven't talked to

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But through the connection

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I believe both of you are purely innocent

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I don't see anything wrong here

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All I see is corruption

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And I'm just proud of everybody

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I'm proud of the Bitcoin ecosystem

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Keone, you just continue to amaze me

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The way you just showed up at the beginning of this call

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I know you're exhausted

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And you're like, hey

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There's another smile

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I mean, he's just like

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and this is how he is all the time guys because i'm talking to him every day now i talk to him

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privately and we're just talking on the phone and we're talking chatting and you know he's just a

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good guy an entrepreneur an american hero and here we are and we may get a part in i mean i'm still

256
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hopeful man you know i'm just i think we're all sitting here hoping for like a christmas miracle

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you know and um look if it doesn't happen all good we keep marching we keep marching but it's

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been, you know, I think it's on the table. I think we have a chance here to, uh, to try to get you

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to not have to spend any time behind bars. So I'll shut up. I'm, I'm very, very proud,

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proud to be here. Proud to be here. Cheers. Look, I'm let's, let's, I'm going to drink every time

261
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someone signs the petition, scan that QR code, pardon samurai. Let's free the boys, uh, before,

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uh, Christmas, before they spend a night in jail. Uh, let's play the clip from Trump if we can,

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Francis. So I'm three deep here. Mr. President, this week a man named Keone Rodriguez is going to federal prison for creating crypto privacy software. The case was started under the Biden administration, but your DOJ kept it going and secured the conviction. A lot of people in crypto are saying that this man should be pardoned. Are you familiar with the case at all or would you be interested? I've heard about it. I'll look at it. Why you think you should be pardoned? Sounds like it. Sounds like based on your question.

264
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Many people in Rodriguez. We'll look at that, Pam. OK, let's take a look at it.

265
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You'll have to tell me. I don't know anything about it, but we'll take a look.

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That's, I mean, incredibly optimistic.

267
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He sounded like he believes you're innocent. I believe you're innocent.

268
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Yeah, I think it was optimistic for sure.

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You know, I've seen a lot of Q&A with President Trump.

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You know, he takes he takes press questions quite often and he has really no issue in not answering a question or blowing a question off if he's not interested in talking about it.

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This clip was like 37 seconds or 35 seconds.

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That's a lot of time for the president to spend on a question if he wasn't interested in in what it was about.

273
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So, you know, I think it's on his radar now. And that's really the whole point of the last week and some of all the press, all the podcasts, all the recordings, everything was how do we get the president's attention?

274
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because I said it yesterday on X, but I truly believe with the president's attention, we have a pretty good shot.

275
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Right. The president has experienced lawfare. He has experienced a weaponized Department of Justice.

276
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They have gone after him. So he knows it when he sees it.

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And if he looks at our case, he will see it again, just like he saw it with himself.

278
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So I think cautious optimism is warranted. This is a truly incredible development. And I'm very thankful to the reporter from Decrypt who asked the question to bring it to the president's mind and president delegating his attorney general to look into it.

279
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Was that a complete surprise or was there any indication?

280
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Wow. That had to be.

281
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Total surprise.

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completely and and this you know people have asked me like why are you spending so much time

283
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doing all of these recordings and this press and these podcasts and i've told them i'm walking

284
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through every single door that opens you know i'm not going to sit in a cell wondering did i do enough

285
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right and so i early last week or even maybe the week before that someone a reporter from decrypt

286
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asked me, hey, I'm writing a written article. Would you like to be interviewed for it? It's

287
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not going to be only about you, but you could be featured in it. And I said, absolutely, let's talk.

288
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And we had a great discussion. I told him about the case. He wrote his article. It was a good

289
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article. It's on Decrypt if anyone wants to read it. And it just turns out that this reporter who

290
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I never spoke to before and didn't know is also a White House correspondent for Decrypt.

291
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And he's the one who asked the president that question. So, you know, you walk through every single door that opens. If I hadn't done the Bitcoin veteran space with Bob, I never would have met Jesse. And this whole this whole, you know, movement that has sprung up very organically, like Jesse said, is all because I did that one Twitter space, you know, and it's it's really it's important to walk through each door, every door that opens.

292
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that I'm so glad that I have.

293
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And it's really culminated to this moment

294
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where we have so many people helping.

295
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Like Jesse said, there's a whole team of people.

296
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These are highly educated, highly trained,

297
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very effective people.

298
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Had I had to pay for their expertise,

299
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I would be even more debt than I am right now.

300
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But here that, you know, you're seeing them pop up now.

301
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These people have donated their time and their energy

302
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and their resources into this movement.

303
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And I can't thank them enough.

304
00:24:10,144 --> 00:24:13,804
Angela McArdle, thank you for hopping on.

305
00:24:14,324 --> 00:24:15,404
Hey, you're so welcome.

306
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Thanks for having me.

307
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How did you kind of get linked to this cause and what inspired you to kind of get behind it?

308
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Well, after Ross Ulbrich was freed, a lot of people came out of the woodwork to me asking me if I can help them.

309
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It's a really surreal experience to have someone approach you or their wife or whoever and be like,

310
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hey, can you help me get out of prison? It's like, I don't really fully know how to articulate it.

311
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And so, you know, I've been trying so hard to get Ian Freeman, a presidential pardon. He's a

312
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Bitcoiner who's locked in federal prison in New Hampshire. And then I met Tor Eklund, who's the

313
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attorney for Roman Sterlingov, you know, and he's like, can you, you know, can you work for, with

314
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with sterling law and i'm like yeah you know and i just like straight to the doj and and i'm like

315
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literally on my on my way to visit the pardon attorney's office people like don't forget samurai

316
00:25:13,884 --> 00:25:18,764
wallet now don't forget um roman storm and i'm like okay send me everything you know i just start

317
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calling people's attorneys and i'm like are you guys talking to each other and it's like no you

318
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know everybody's really siloed so it's like oh that's we gotta we gotta communicate like we gotta

319
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to link arms. So it's just kind of like, it's just irresistible. When an innocent person is like,

320
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can you help me get out of prison? What do you say? You don't say no. The answer is absolutely.

321
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I really feel like God just kind of like pushed me into this role. Like a few years ago, I was

322
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running for chair of the National Libertarian Party. I'm talking with Tom Woods and some other

323
00:25:53,924 --> 00:25:59,344
libertarian thought leaders on it. And they're like, Angela, why are you, this seems kind of

324
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like crazy. And like, you know, is this productive? And I was like, I don't really know how to

325
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articulate it. I don't know that it's about the libertarian party, but I feel like God is putting

326
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me here so I can do something important. And, and this is what, this is what that is.

327
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Awesome. Awesome. That is awesome. Yeah. I just want, I just want to say that,

328
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And, you know, I knew about Angela.

329
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I knew what she had done for Ross.

330
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I didn't think I had a chance in hell of even talking to Angela,

331
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imagining how busy she must be.

332
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And it was Angela who reached out to me and said,

333
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let's work together.

334
00:26:39,804 --> 00:26:40,524
I want to help you.

335
00:26:40,584 --> 00:26:41,844
It was right after my sentencing.

336
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It was probably one of the worst days of my life.

337
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And Angela reached out to me and said, let's talk.

338
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And she's just been absolutely instrumental, really, really smart woman, great brain for strategy and truly cares about the cause of freedom.

339
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And that comes out through everything she's done.

340
00:27:03,844 --> 00:27:09,844
And if she if she's done nothing other than get Ross pardoned, that's enough for me.

341
00:27:09,944 --> 00:27:14,824
Like that's what a huge result that is. So, yeah, thank you. Thank you for all your help.

342
00:27:14,824 --> 00:27:25,664
You're welcome. And, you know, praying, fingers crossed, all of the above that we can make something happen, you know, by Friday, if not at least before Christmas.

343
00:27:26,844 --> 00:27:28,104
Yeah, for sure.

344
00:27:28,344 --> 00:27:31,544
Larry, thank you for joining us. Would you like to say something?

345
00:27:32,164 --> 00:27:41,384
Sure. Well, first of all, Keone, I hadn't met you before, but I have enormous respect for what you've done and the fight that you're in, because I feel like you're a warrior for freedom.

346
00:27:41,384 --> 00:27:54,848
And that what we really all are Bitcoin is not about number go up Bitcoin is about fixing the world as my book talked about And you right there on the front line And so you know tons and tons of respect as really respect for everybody on this call

347
00:27:55,848 --> 00:27:59,648
You know, Angela, Jesse, Puncher, F-Rat, you know, Charlie.

348
00:28:00,368 --> 00:28:01,168
It's funny.

349
00:28:01,168 --> 00:28:05,648
Charlie and I were on a stage together.

350
00:28:06,368 --> 00:28:07,168
I believe that's Charlie.

351
00:28:07,168 --> 00:28:09,208
Charlie, am I identifying you correctly?

352
00:28:09,208 --> 00:28:11,368
Is that Charlie Schrem there in the final box?

353
00:28:11,608 --> 00:28:22,248
uh no no oh my bad okay pretend it is yeah in any case uh my mistake look i i just think what's

354
00:28:22,248 --> 00:28:28,648
happened here is a tragedy and um you know hopefully it can be set right um i think that the

355
00:28:29,368 --> 00:28:35,688
um you know the obviously the reporter did you a real incredible solid and my sense is that trump's

356
00:28:35,688 --> 00:28:40,168
not a stupid man and once he's briefed on this there really is no legal case here i mean if

357
00:28:40,168 --> 00:28:43,788
if writing software were illegal, it's protected under the First Amendment, freedom of speech.

358
00:28:44,248 --> 00:28:49,368
And that's really all you've done. You know, as I think, you know, and I, you and I talked,

359
00:28:49,508 --> 00:28:54,368
I talked about, I think in chats with some people on, you know, what I think happened here is more

360
00:28:54,368 --> 00:29:00,508
than anything else, you know, the rhetoric got you in trouble. It reminds me a lot of a case,

361
00:29:00,848 --> 00:29:07,608
Bernard von Nauthaus did a similar thing back in the 2005, 2008 timeframe with something called

362
00:29:07,608 --> 00:29:10,548
the Liberty dollar and he was very anti-dollar, anti-fiat currency.

363
00:29:10,968 --> 00:29:14,488
And he created an alternative and they decided to make an example out of him.

364
00:29:15,128 --> 00:29:16,828
And I think that's really what's happened here.

365
00:29:17,408 --> 00:29:19,408
But there's no legal basis for what they're doing.

366
00:29:19,748 --> 00:29:25,808
And so I've remained, I'm extremely confident that you will be vindicated.

367
00:29:25,808 --> 00:29:29,928
I hope you don't have to spend one night in jail, but you might, it sounds like.

368
00:29:30,108 --> 00:29:35,808
But I can't imagine you're going to spend a lot of time in jail based on once the facts

369
00:29:35,808 --> 00:29:40,688
come out and if the groundswell here is overwhelming, we're going to be in a position where,

370
00:29:40,688 --> 00:29:45,728
you know, Trump's just not going to be able to not pardon you. So, you know, my hat's off to

371
00:29:45,728 --> 00:29:52,048
Puncher, who really took the lead on this, and Jesse, you know, and you as well, Angela,

372
00:29:52,048 --> 00:29:56,528
took the lead on this and went out and, you know, got this whole thing going. I mean, it's,

373
00:29:58,128 --> 00:30:02,208
you know, it's a credit to this community and we should try and continue to spread the word.

374
00:30:02,208 --> 00:30:04,528
I know the minute Puncher came out with his epic rant.

375
00:30:05,488 --> 00:30:09,388
And things like the fact that he was an F-16 pilot, served in the military.

376
00:30:09,608 --> 00:30:12,668
I mean, that kind of stuff, that resonates with a Trump, right?

377
00:30:12,748 --> 00:30:17,968
I mean, here we got legitimate, honest, hardworking Americans who are maggot to the core

378
00:30:17,968 --> 00:30:23,648
and who can see that lawfare is being practiced against one of their friends.

379
00:30:24,848 --> 00:30:27,768
I think a few of those, if he sees that video clip, you're out.

380
00:30:28,548 --> 00:30:31,348
So we got to just hope he sees that video clip.

381
00:30:32,208 --> 00:30:36,768
And, you know, I'm praying that you will be out soon.

382
00:30:36,768 --> 00:30:39,768
But, you know, if you're not out, so be it.

383
00:30:39,828 --> 00:30:41,988
That might be the path you have to walk through.

384
00:30:42,248 --> 00:30:45,548
But, you know, some people criticize you for taking the plea deal.

385
00:30:45,568 --> 00:30:46,448
I don't criticize you at all.

386
00:30:46,528 --> 00:30:48,388
I think you had to take the plea deal.

387
00:30:48,588 --> 00:30:55,188
I mean, you know, taking the risk of, you know, bigger fine and all the time had no sense whatsoever.

388
00:30:55,428 --> 00:30:58,268
And, I mean, the absolute worst case if you had to serve out your sentence here,

389
00:30:58,708 --> 00:31:01,188
I can't even imagine that you'd be behind bars for five years.

390
00:31:01,188 --> 00:31:03,948
that would probably be commuted to something significantly less.

391
00:31:03,988 --> 00:31:05,168
And let's pray that doesn't happen.

392
00:31:05,168 --> 00:31:08,748
So, you know, nothing but respect for what you did

393
00:31:08,748 --> 00:31:13,468
and for the way you fought this, you know, calmly and intelligently.

394
00:31:13,988 --> 00:31:15,608
And I hope we have a good outcome.

395
00:31:15,888 --> 00:31:16,828
That's all I can say.

396
00:31:17,728 --> 00:31:20,968
I mean, let's not forget he's already under home arrest.

397
00:31:21,168 --> 00:31:23,188
So he's already, time's already been served.

398
00:31:23,608 --> 00:31:25,928
This is an unjust time's already been served.

399
00:31:26,788 --> 00:31:30,828
I want to throw it to Kevin Kelly, really influential puncher

400
00:31:30,828 --> 00:31:35,268
and just kind of promoting this and bringing this to a lot of people and putting some sort of

401
00:31:35,268 --> 00:31:39,748
motivation behind it. Thank you for joining us. What are your thoughts on that? Thanks, Sid.

402
00:31:41,488 --> 00:31:47,388
I just, you know, Jesse, credit to him. We heard about this and I just, I hate injustice,

403
00:31:48,408 --> 00:31:54,348
particularly in my own country. And the more I heard about Keone's situation in Bill's,

404
00:31:54,348 --> 00:31:59,368
I was just like, man, this can't stand. And I learned in the military that if I had a problem

405
00:31:59,368 --> 00:32:03,248
that was a small problem that wasn't getting addressed, I just turned it into a big problem.

406
00:32:03,248 --> 00:32:09,808
And then I turned it into everybody's problem. So just started screaming about it and going on my,

407
00:32:09,848 --> 00:32:16,888
you know, Irish, crazy Irish rant about what happened. And the more I looked into it, what

408
00:32:16,888 --> 00:32:22,708
I wanted to make sure was that if I asked, you know, Jeff and Larry and other folks who have

409
00:32:22,708 --> 00:32:28,388
built, you know, reputation and a platform that's valuable, that for sure we vetted

410
00:32:28,388 --> 00:32:33,748
uh keone's story out so we did that and like a soldier man he came up on bitcoin today

411
00:32:34,868 --> 00:32:41,108
he answered every question um and the more i heard the more outrageous the situation became but

412
00:32:41,108 --> 00:32:44,708
you know there was a lot of people like backbenchers on twitter and things were saying oh

413
00:32:44,708 --> 00:32:48,788
you don't understand these guys are this and the other i would immediately say we're going to give

414
00:32:48,788 --> 00:32:54,548
you head of the line privileges you can speak to keone on bitcoin today and to a person they all

415
00:32:54,548 --> 00:32:59,428
kind of wimped out. Not one of them showed up, which told me we're on the right path. And then

416
00:32:59,428 --> 00:33:03,328
I felt comfortable going out to the Bitcoin network, which is just amazing, by the way.

417
00:33:03,888 --> 00:33:09,268
And a lot of people stand up on stage at conferences and things and talk about Bitcoin,

418
00:33:09,388 --> 00:33:13,828
but it's more than just number go up. It's a community. And, you know, we're going to be the

419
00:33:13,828 --> 00:33:18,328
future judges and magistrates when this all happens. And I believe that.

420
00:33:19,408 --> 00:33:23,248
But then to kind of stand in the sidelines when you have that stage, like,

421
00:33:23,248 --> 00:33:28,488
if you're not going to step up and a lot of people didn't initially Larry to his credit

422
00:33:28,488 --> 00:33:35,808
jumped in right away said and a lot of others um you know they they really just showed me that what

423
00:33:35,808 --> 00:33:40,508
good honest decent people they are and some people stayed in the background a little bit and I get

424
00:33:40,508 --> 00:33:45,608
that but some people refused to do anything and that was very disappointing so to those people

425
00:33:45,608 --> 00:33:50,808
next time you get up on a stage just talk about number go up and don't don't feed us the rest of

426
00:33:50,808 --> 00:33:57,888
that BS because when the time came to stand up you didn't do it to the women of Bitcoin Sharon

427
00:33:57,888 --> 00:34:05,328
Shannon Angela Lynn I mean just like it's just the women in Bitcoin are amazing I know I'm leaving

428
00:34:05,328 --> 00:34:16,428
somebody out Shannon Natalie Natalie for now I mean the women in Bitcoin the smaller number me

429
00:34:16,428 --> 00:34:19,388
relative to the men were just amazing.

430
00:34:19,648 --> 00:34:21,308
They just came right out.

431
00:34:21,348 --> 00:34:22,228
No questions asked.

432
00:34:22,688 --> 00:34:24,568
We're on board, and they're so talented.

433
00:34:24,768 --> 00:34:27,068
I'm just extremely privileged to know them

434
00:34:27,068 --> 00:34:29,188
and count them as friends, as everybody on this space.

435
00:34:29,268 --> 00:34:30,588
Thanks, guys. Really appreciate it.

436
00:34:31,148 --> 00:34:31,988
Amazing. Cheers.

437
00:34:32,868 --> 00:34:35,808
Cheers. I drink, but I got a glass of water.

438
00:34:35,908 --> 00:34:36,708
I'll drink a glass of water.

439
00:34:36,808 --> 00:34:38,628
I'm at a lacrosse practice right now.

440
00:34:38,768 --> 00:34:39,808
Me too. We got water.

441
00:34:39,928 --> 00:34:41,748
Naomi Brockwell, too.

442
00:34:42,308 --> 00:34:42,988
Seb Bunny.

443
00:34:42,988 --> 00:34:46,028
Thanks for jumping on.

444
00:34:46,428 --> 00:34:54,168
nice to see you yeah no honestly more than anything and I apologize if I cough I've picked

445
00:34:54,168 --> 00:34:58,608
up a bit of a cold but more than anything like Keone I think there's I'm sure I speak for like

446
00:34:58,608 --> 00:35:02,088
thousands if not tens of thousands of people that have never met you personally that have

447
00:35:02,088 --> 00:35:06,648
never had these conversations that are in the shadows they're absolutely like behind your back

448
00:35:06,648 --> 00:35:11,988
and I think that like the age of the internet the ability to be able to communicate and share a

449
00:35:11,988 --> 00:35:17,348
is truly profound. And so I think it's incredible what it is that you've done. And I think that it

450
00:35:17,348 --> 00:35:24,328
really is like a beacon of light in a world that at times can be quite dark. And I think ultimately

451
00:35:24,328 --> 00:35:29,188
there's that saying in Bitcoin, like we are all Satoshi, like there is no central kind of planner

452
00:35:29,188 --> 00:35:33,028
for Bitcoin. There is no marketing department. Bitcoin success falls on kind of the shoulders

453
00:35:33,028 --> 00:35:37,528
of all of us as individuals. And I just think that it is, it takes a ton of courage to be able to

454
00:35:37,528 --> 00:35:42,588
stand up, even when there is a lot of opposition and a world that could be kind of against us at

455
00:35:42,588 --> 00:35:45,848
many times, and to be able to honor what it is that we believe in, because I think that that's

456
00:35:45,848 --> 00:35:50,068
how we move towards a better world. And so I just, I think it is absolutely incredible what it is

457
00:35:50,068 --> 00:35:54,508
you're doing, what you have done. And you've got the absolute backing for myself. And I'm sure I

458
00:35:54,508 --> 00:35:58,688
speak to thousands of others when I say that you've got their backing as well. And I really just urge

459
00:35:58,688 --> 00:36:02,828
anyone kind of listening to this, again, like Bitcoin success falls on us as individuals. So

460
00:36:02,828 --> 00:36:06,468
It doesn't matter if you're a doctor or a man and bike instructor or a cafe worker.

461
00:36:06,728 --> 00:36:09,888
You speak to a unique cohort of individuals and to share that voice.

462
00:36:10,248 --> 00:36:13,708
Don't self-censor because of a world that kind of intimidates people.

463
00:36:13,968 --> 00:36:17,528
Don't self-censor because that's how we move towards a world of prosperity.

464
00:36:17,688 --> 00:36:18,408
I truly believe that.

465
00:36:20,288 --> 00:36:22,148
Thank you very much.

466
00:36:22,548 --> 00:36:26,188
Everyone, please scan the QR code, sign the petition if you haven't already done so.

467
00:36:26,188 --> 00:36:28,028
Brandon Keys, thank you for joining us.

468
00:36:28,768 --> 00:36:30,888
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

469
00:36:30,888 --> 00:36:35,808
Unfortunately, it's, you know, I wish it was under better circumstances that we're meeting Keone.

470
00:36:36,008 --> 00:36:46,648
But just to echo Seb Bunny's point, I mean, I think, you know, we're seeing the strength of the community now to really come out and, you know, get this in front of the president.

471
00:36:46,648 --> 00:36:48,648
And I mean, I'm pretty optimistic.

472
00:36:49,488 --> 00:36:51,948
I mean, it seems like it's a movement here.

473
00:36:52,008 --> 00:36:55,468
And I think everybody rallying around is really encouraging to me.

474
00:36:55,608 --> 00:36:58,808
And seeing you in high spirits as well, Keone.

475
00:36:58,808 --> 00:37:07,708
I mean, just seeing the snowball effect from the community has been, you know, I think it just really says a lot about the Bitcoin community in general.

476
00:37:07,808 --> 00:37:12,448
It's been really inspiring. And to see you in high spirits, honestly, is very encouraging.

477
00:37:12,448 --> 00:37:24,148
But I think, you know, hopefully at this point we can get this message loud enough and get people, you know, rallied around the cause enough in order to have you not spend a single night in jail.

478
00:37:24,148 --> 00:37:27,568
Because I think that would be a huge injustice to say the very least.

479
00:37:27,568 --> 00:37:37,388
So, yeah, I mean, whatever we can all do to help at least spread the message and hopefully get it to the right ears, I think, you know, I'm here to do.

480
00:37:37,648 --> 00:37:43,928
And yeah, I mean, Cedric and everybody else here on here and, you know, we listed off a lot of the women in Bitcoin already.

481
00:37:44,488 --> 00:37:46,828
All you guys helping elevate this message.

482
00:37:47,128 --> 00:37:51,508
Let's let's hope we can continue to do that and get it to the right people for sure.

483
00:37:53,948 --> 00:37:55,028
Thank you very much.

484
00:37:55,428 --> 00:37:56,188
Appreciate that.

485
00:37:56,188 --> 00:38:03,848
Yeah, I just want to say to Seb and Larry, you kind of touched on something I think that's important.

486
00:38:04,508 --> 00:38:06,468
Larry, you mentioned that my rhetoric.

487
00:38:08,728 --> 00:38:11,608
Yeah, I haven't even made my point yet.

488
00:38:11,608 --> 00:38:13,528
We got someone in the QR code.

489
00:38:16,568 --> 00:38:20,828
That my rhetoric may have contributed to this.

490
00:38:20,908 --> 00:38:23,728
I think that's true to an extent, right?

491
00:38:23,728 --> 00:38:33,328
I mean, I was and am brash on Twitter and make my opinion known, even if it's popular or unpopular.

492
00:38:33,868 --> 00:38:35,428
And I think that's a good thing.

493
00:38:35,588 --> 00:38:42,108
Everything I said, I meant and it was authentic or I was making a joke, which there was plenty of those as well.

494
00:38:42,828 --> 00:38:44,708
And I don't I don't regret any of that.

495
00:38:45,128 --> 00:38:47,788
But it's also not the only reason.

496
00:38:48,368 --> 00:38:51,248
Right. I think it just made their lives a little easier.

497
00:38:51,248 --> 00:39:00,268
They could take a tweet that I said, welcoming Russian oligarchs, and really twist that out and squeeze out all the context.

498
00:39:01,108 --> 00:39:09,928
And you get some droll prosecutor standing up and reading it in a dull voice with no inflection, and it sounds kind of bad.

499
00:39:10,868 --> 00:39:19,508
But when you look at someone like Roman Storm, who created Tornado Cash, he didn't do any of that.

500
00:39:19,508 --> 00:39:22,268
He didn't have any brash tweets.

501
00:39:22,448 --> 00:39:25,628
He didn't have things like that to take out of context.

502
00:39:25,748 --> 00:39:27,388
He was pretty clean cut.

503
00:39:28,048 --> 00:39:29,868
And they still went after him.

504
00:39:30,288 --> 00:39:45,008
So I think really what it comes down to is if you build something that works for one and gets a lot of use and you fall into their cross sites, they're coming for you.

505
00:39:45,448 --> 00:39:46,688
They want to take you down.

506
00:39:46,688 --> 00:39:49,808
They are going to take you down no matter what.

507
00:39:50,008 --> 00:39:52,988
So the fact that I had those tweets just made it easier for them.

508
00:39:54,348 --> 00:39:57,868
But it wasn't because of the tweets, I don't think.

509
00:39:57,968 --> 00:39:58,408
Maybe it was.

510
00:39:58,428 --> 00:40:01,188
I would agree with you, and I compliment you for those tweets.

511
00:40:01,348 --> 00:40:04,848
I mean, if tweets can get you thrown in jail, I'm right on the edge, okay?

512
00:40:05,528 --> 00:40:09,528
So I'll see you there.

513
00:40:10,048 --> 00:40:11,888
I'll see you there if you don't get pardoned.

514
00:40:11,888 --> 00:40:19,328
But I mean, you know, look, I mean, to call if people are evil liars, which basically a lot of the government is, these people are evil, criminal liars.

515
00:40:19,568 --> 00:40:22,868
And we call them such and they take offense to it and decide to jail us.

516
00:40:22,948 --> 00:40:26,948
Well, fuck them. I mean, you know, that's that's America.

517
00:40:26,948 --> 00:40:29,108
Right. We've got the ability to call things that we see.

518
00:40:29,148 --> 00:40:33,228
Now, they can disagree with us, but they can't use lawfare to throw us in jail over it.

519
00:40:33,228 --> 00:40:40,908
And, you know, don't don't interpret my comments as in any way, meaning I think you should know, no rhetoric because I loved your rhetoric.

520
00:40:41,408 --> 00:40:45,188
I'm just saying that I think they use that at the margin to say, oh, look at this.

521
00:40:45,228 --> 00:40:46,068
We really got a guy.

522
00:40:46,248 --> 00:40:47,708
We can nail him both ways here.

523
00:40:48,448 --> 00:40:54,848
You know, he not only is doing something that makes our life more difficult, which, you know, your thing does, as does Roman's thing.

524
00:40:54,888 --> 00:40:58,048
But he's also saying he's clearly on the other side of the fence.

525
00:40:58,128 --> 00:40:59,028
So let's go get him.

526
00:40:59,408 --> 00:41:01,548
We've seen this is what the president went through.

527
00:41:02,088 --> 00:41:03,008
It's the same playbook.

528
00:41:03,008 --> 00:41:03,328
Exactly.

529
00:41:05,948 --> 00:41:07,048
That's exactly right.

530
00:41:07,048 --> 00:41:12,688
And, you know, they took they made a big song and dance about the Russian oligarchs and this and that.

531
00:41:12,748 --> 00:41:22,328
But they really made a big song and dance when I called members of Congress sickos, quote unquote sickos, for inventing the crime of money laundering in the late 70s.

532
00:41:23,088 --> 00:41:25,308
And what I said was factually accurate.

533
00:41:25,528 --> 00:41:26,828
They did invent a new crime.

534
00:41:27,288 --> 00:41:30,748
That was not a crime prior to Congress saying it's a crime.

535
00:41:30,748 --> 00:41:33,748
And then they invented a new crime called structuring

536
00:41:33,748 --> 00:41:47,632
when they realized that people were getting around the new crime by transacting just under So they had to make that a crime And I called them sickos And boy did they make a song and dance about that in the courtroom

537
00:41:48,272 --> 00:41:50,672
And even the judge had something to say about that.

538
00:41:51,152 --> 00:41:52,612
But I stand by it.

539
00:41:53,272 --> 00:41:54,752
You're inventing crimes.

540
00:41:54,852 --> 00:41:55,472
You're a sicko.

541
00:41:55,472 --> 00:41:57,592
There's no victim in this crime.

542
00:41:57,612 --> 00:42:01,652
There's legislation right now that's, you know, we'll see if it passes or not,

543
00:42:01,712 --> 00:42:04,552
you know, to ban congressional insider trading.

544
00:42:04,912 --> 00:42:11,532
So, you know, it all just sounds, it's just so transparent and one-sided.

545
00:42:12,172 --> 00:42:12,652
Yeah.

546
00:42:13,392 --> 00:42:13,952
Yeah.

547
00:42:14,352 --> 00:42:24,992
But they do take your tweets and they will twist and turn them and make your tweets criminal intent, which I guess is a cap in my feather.

548
00:42:25,092 --> 00:42:26,032
I have criminal tweets.

549
00:42:26,232 --> 00:42:26,772
Hey, Keone.

550
00:42:27,692 --> 00:42:30,472
By the way, is that the correct way to pronounce your name, Keone?

551
00:42:31,332 --> 00:42:32,052
It is.

552
00:42:32,052 --> 00:42:32,372
Okay.

553
00:42:32,552 --> 00:42:33,852
Because I heard people call you Keone.

554
00:42:33,852 --> 00:42:39,132
i'm like man maybe i'm calling them the wrong thing um yeah i i kind of the first night we

555
00:42:39,132 --> 00:42:44,172
talked i really wanted to highlight the fact that this was the sdny and i gotta imagine that the

556
00:42:44,172 --> 00:42:49,052
president you know has some measure of revenge he wants to exact on these people who tried to

557
00:42:49,052 --> 00:42:54,732
destroy his life and that's why i brought it up in that in my kind of my my rant there but um

558
00:42:54,732 --> 00:42:58,812
dude i just want to say i'm gonna go i'm gonna go be a good dad now my son's out there trying out

559
00:42:58,812 --> 00:43:05,052
for a lacrosse team but you know if you do have to go in for a little bit don't just know that we got

560
00:43:05,052 --> 00:43:11,692
your back we'll we'll we'll find out where you are we'll make sure you're taken care of uh i'll pull

561
00:43:11,692 --> 00:43:16,972
any strings that i could possibly pull not that i have that many but you know being loud and and

562
00:43:16,972 --> 00:43:21,292
and making sure that you're taken care of we got you the one message we wanted to send

563
00:43:22,732 --> 00:43:25,932
is that you we are not to be trifled with in the bitcoin community

564
00:43:25,932 --> 00:43:37,852
I think we proved that we will exact some measure of political or other kind of price if you try to come after one of ours.

565
00:43:38,592 --> 00:43:40,972
And, dude, I'm really impressed with you.

566
00:43:41,712 --> 00:43:48,112
When you're out, you know, whatever you're doing next, I want to be a part of that if that's an opportunity.

567
00:43:48,632 --> 00:43:51,852
And I'm just super impressed by you, your demeanor, how you're handling this.

568
00:43:52,252 --> 00:43:54,912
You're a soldier buddy, and I'd be in a foxhole with you anytime.

569
00:43:54,912 --> 00:44:00,752
so thank you very much for everything you've done yeah guys i'll be listening in i'm sure there's

570
00:44:00,752 --> 00:44:05,272
other people i think marty bent's waiting and stuff so thank you guys and i'm listening in but

571
00:44:05,272 --> 00:44:12,452
thanks thank you thank you punch hey said um maybe that's the time for for should we sort of shuffle

572
00:44:12,452 --> 00:44:17,312
and i can drop i know there's a lot of other people um or what did you want to do yeah let's

573
00:44:17,312 --> 00:44:23,172
shuffle a few around just so that we can get some new blood in but um yeah thanks jesse yeah let me

574
00:44:23,172 --> 00:44:27,932
just say one thing before I drop as well. Let me sing the praises of Puncher who just dropped. He,

575
00:44:27,932 --> 00:44:35,512
I think, is an incredible person. To leave it at that, no context needed, just an incredible person.

576
00:44:36,032 --> 00:44:40,572
Right. And I think there's so many incredible humans that are coming around this. And the

577
00:44:40,572 --> 00:44:46,532
reason is that this is deeper than Bitcoin, deeper than Keone, deeper than me, deeper than any of us

578
00:44:46,532 --> 00:44:54,332
on this stage and we all feel it. And it's really about our rights, our personal human rights. So

579
00:44:54,332 --> 00:45:04,572
thank you everybody. Keone, love you, buddy. You and I are in touch and yeah, just proud of you.

580
00:45:04,912 --> 00:45:07,492
So we'll talk soon. Thanks, man. Thank you for all your help.

581
00:45:07,832 --> 00:45:12,152
I'd like to add one more quick little thing, which was, I can't imagine the situation you're

582
00:45:12,152 --> 00:45:15,292
in right now. And I'm sure when you're in this situation, sometimes you can question yourself

583
00:45:15,292 --> 00:45:16,872
and whether or not should I have shown up differently?

584
00:45:16,972 --> 00:45:18,072
Should I have done something differently?

585
00:45:18,152 --> 00:45:20,032
And I think that more than anything,

586
00:45:20,492 --> 00:45:23,072
what this highlights is this has got nothing to do with you.

587
00:45:23,152 --> 00:45:24,692
I think that you've been in the crosshairs

588
00:45:24,692 --> 00:45:26,772
of a system that doesn't tolerate

589
00:45:26,772 --> 00:45:29,032
people trying to promote privacy.

590
00:45:29,472 --> 00:45:31,292
And I think that the way I write about

591
00:45:31,292 --> 00:45:32,212
and the way that I view money

592
00:45:32,212 --> 00:45:33,792
is money is a medium of expression.

593
00:45:33,792 --> 00:45:35,372
It's how we express to the world what we value.

594
00:45:36,072 --> 00:45:38,152
The system does not like money flowing

595
00:45:38,152 --> 00:45:39,372
to where value is being created.

596
00:45:39,612 --> 00:45:41,572
They want to be able to govern those trajectories.

597
00:45:42,032 --> 00:45:44,292
And anytime someone opens up tools

598
00:45:44,292 --> 00:45:46,552
for money to flow to where value is being created,

599
00:45:46,772 --> 00:45:48,652
all of a sudden the antibodies come out.

600
00:45:48,732 --> 00:45:50,792
And I think that you've just been caught in that crossfire.

601
00:45:50,892 --> 00:45:52,432
And so I hope more than anything,

602
00:45:52,912 --> 00:45:55,652
you're not taking too much, I don't know,

603
00:45:55,952 --> 00:45:58,032
retrospective thought on your actions

604
00:45:58,032 --> 00:45:59,232
and how you could have done things differently

605
00:45:59,232 --> 00:46:01,152
because I think this has got nothing to do with you

606
00:46:01,152 --> 00:46:02,332
and what you're doing for the community

607
00:46:02,332 --> 00:46:03,132
is very much needed.

608
00:46:04,332 --> 00:46:04,952
Thank you.

609
00:46:05,052 --> 00:46:06,192
Yeah, I agree.

610
00:46:06,332 --> 00:46:08,172
I thought a lot about this.

611
00:46:08,172 --> 00:46:09,272
If I regret anything

612
00:46:09,272 --> 00:46:10,492
or if I would have done something differently

613
00:46:10,492 --> 00:46:12,292
and I've come to the conclusion that no,

614
00:46:12,332 --> 00:46:13,572
I don't have a single regret.

615
00:46:14,292 --> 00:46:18,912
I'm proud of what I've built. I'm proud of the legacy I'll leave.

616
00:46:19,972 --> 00:46:25,372
And that, like you said, it's I could have been completely different.

617
00:46:25,852 --> 00:46:29,112
The most meek and mild and anonymous person.

618
00:46:29,832 --> 00:46:33,372
And had I built what I built, they would have still come after it.

619
00:46:33,612 --> 00:46:35,412
Because you're absolutely right.

620
00:46:35,832 --> 00:46:38,112
Freedom to freedom of speech. Sorry.

621
00:46:38,532 --> 00:46:43,232
Transacting is one of the purest forms of speech as far as I can see it.

622
00:46:43,232 --> 00:46:57,092
And they have spent decades slowly chipping away at the basic fundamental privacy that we have enjoyed throughout history when it comes to our finances.

623
00:46:57,452 --> 00:47:02,412
They have now inserted themselves deep into our financial lives.

624
00:47:02,472 --> 00:47:05,612
They want to know every transaction we're making, where we're spending it.

625
00:47:05,832 --> 00:47:07,312
Are we paying tax on it?

626
00:47:07,612 --> 00:47:08,792
What is it you're buying?

627
00:47:09,112 --> 00:47:10,292
Why are you buying it?

628
00:47:10,632 --> 00:47:12,012
Who are you donating to?

629
00:47:12,312 --> 00:47:13,112
All of that.

630
00:47:13,232 --> 00:47:19,852
And they have slowly been successful in inserting themselves into that part of our lives.

631
00:47:19,852 --> 00:47:28,352
And all we did was create software that took back a little bit of that sovereignty that we once had.

632
00:47:29,332 --> 00:47:31,852
And this was the reaction we got out of it.

633
00:47:31,932 --> 00:47:37,772
So I think it's an apt analogy to the antibodies being activated.

634
00:47:37,772 --> 00:47:44,052
the antibodies of the state being activated against the software that they really didn't like.

635
00:47:44,892 --> 00:47:47,552
So, yeah, thank you for that comment. I think you're absolutely right.

636
00:47:48,132 --> 00:47:48,592
Thanks, Locioni.

637
00:47:49,472 --> 00:47:54,312
I'm going to jump out, too, to help with the changing of the guard.

638
00:47:54,732 --> 00:48:02,632
I just want to reiterate, we all support you, and we're praying so hard that we can see something happen before Friday,

639
00:48:02,632 --> 00:48:06,372
and that President Trump is so, he's so generous.

640
00:48:06,532 --> 00:48:09,772
What he told me when I asked for Ross Ulbricht's freedom is he said,

641
00:48:09,952 --> 00:48:11,592
I love freeing people.

642
00:48:12,092 --> 00:48:15,032
So just keep that in your mind and don't give up hope.

643
00:48:15,032 --> 00:48:19,592
And for the people out there, if you want to support, don't hesitate.

644
00:48:20,252 --> 00:48:21,092
Never hesitate.

645
00:48:21,472 --> 00:48:24,592
If you're thinking about helping someone out and you feel spiritually,

646
00:48:24,972 --> 00:48:28,292
morally convicted, listen to that voice.

647
00:48:28,692 --> 00:48:31,892
Jump in because you have an opportunity to change the world.

648
00:48:32,632 --> 00:48:37,752
so um yeah everybody please sign the petitions pay attention to all the bitcoin prisoners

649
00:48:37,752 --> 00:48:42,232
and you know whether you're praying on your knees or silently in your head you're not sure if god's

650
00:48:42,232 --> 00:48:50,072
real whatever you know just ask ask ask the president ask the lord you know we got to ask

651
00:48:50,072 --> 00:48:55,592
the community because you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take so good night everyone

652
00:48:56,152 --> 00:49:00,872
thanks anzola thank you so much for joining us and getting out the word marty bent thank you for

653
00:49:00,872 --> 00:49:06,472
joining us and actually thank you so much for being one of the first like big interviewers of

654
00:49:06,472 --> 00:49:12,792
keone uh you guys seem i listened to the interview and it seemed like you know you had done so many

655
00:49:12,792 --> 00:49:18,632
episodes before bringing him on to talk directly but you guys have done content before what does

656
00:49:18,632 --> 00:49:24,872
this mean to you and what kind of love and support do you have for keone tonight uh number one thanks

657
00:49:24,872 --> 00:49:25,772
Thanks for having me, Cedric.

658
00:49:26,672 --> 00:49:28,292
I mean, it's hard to describe.

659
00:49:28,392 --> 00:49:33,932
I mean, not only have I been a long-time user and supporter of Samurai Wallet,

660
00:49:34,132 --> 00:49:38,052
Matt and I talked about it during RHR almost weekly

661
00:49:38,052 --> 00:49:41,772
when you guys were building out the product over the course of six years

662
00:49:41,772 --> 00:49:46,152
that we were doing the show before a couple of years ago.

663
00:49:46,252 --> 00:49:51,172
But not only that, I mean, 1031, we were investors in Samurai Wallet.

664
00:49:51,172 --> 00:49:58,472
And so we saw it as an incredible, useful tool in business that is necessary.

665
00:49:58,472 --> 00:50:20,792
And that's one thing I think about with this case particularly is the sort of a chilling effect that it has for people who want to leverage the native technology that is Bitcoin, the protocol to build unique banking and payments infrastructure outside of the purview of the incumbent banking system.

666
00:50:20,792 --> 00:50:29,192
and i think it's extremely disheartening that we're at this point but i am optimistic that uh

667
00:50:29,192 --> 00:50:35,352
that this right this wrong will be righted no that's what i mean i think keone we've known each

668
00:50:35,352 --> 00:50:41,452
other for quite a while now and i think you know but i want to express to everybody else that i

669
00:50:41,452 --> 00:50:49,092
think uh and these were the true cypherpunks like i have the uh the wired uh the wired uh

670
00:50:49,092 --> 00:50:57,892
magazine issue from the pgp wars back in the 90s and i think this is very analogous to what was

671
00:50:57,892 --> 00:51:02,312
going on back then again i think it's safe to say that this privacy war that we're having with

672
00:51:02,312 --> 00:51:09,692
bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is is our version of the pgp wars and these cypherpunks

673
00:51:09,692 --> 00:51:13,712
on the cover behind me were successful in their battle.

674
00:51:13,832 --> 00:51:15,372
And I think we'll be successful too.

675
00:51:15,552 --> 00:51:17,032
It's just going to come with a fight.

676
00:51:19,932 --> 00:51:24,232
I can't imagine this standing and I'm optimistic,

677
00:51:24,492 --> 00:51:25,972
but if this were to stand, Marty,

678
00:51:25,972 --> 00:51:30,052
what kind of trajectory does this put Bitcoin in privacy on?

679
00:51:31,572 --> 00:51:32,692
Not a great one.

680
00:51:32,892 --> 00:51:35,652
If people, the chilling effect is successful.

681
00:51:35,972 --> 00:51:36,652
And I was thinking about this.

682
00:51:36,712 --> 00:51:38,712
I'm actually putting my interview.

683
00:51:38,712 --> 00:51:40,192
I don't want to ask Keone a question.

684
00:51:40,352 --> 00:51:40,552
Like I,

685
00:51:40,572 --> 00:51:42,012
I I've been saying this and I,

686
00:51:42,092 --> 00:51:46,672
I think there's a case to be made for exchanges to implement something like

687
00:51:46,672 --> 00:51:51,352
Pajoid because it's just simply efficient transaction backing batching

688
00:51:51,352 --> 00:51:58,832
technology that just so happens to make the ability to track UTXOs a bit

689
00:51:58,832 --> 00:52:02,372
harder for people using common input heuristics.

690
00:52:04,472 --> 00:52:05,032
Yeah.

691
00:52:05,232 --> 00:52:05,472
Yeah.

692
00:52:05,472 --> 00:52:06,052
I agree.

693
00:52:06,832 --> 00:52:07,072
Yeah.

694
00:52:07,072 --> 00:52:07,592
I'm sorry.

695
00:52:07,592 --> 00:52:14,652
I don't want to go deep into a transaction analysis heuristic discussion.

696
00:52:15,012 --> 00:52:16,512
That will bore the pants off of everyone.

697
00:52:16,832 --> 00:52:18,652
But I agree, Marty.

698
00:52:18,712 --> 00:52:27,352
I think that would be a pretty simple win for destroying the common input ownership heuristic,

699
00:52:27,572 --> 00:52:32,872
which is one of the primary heuristics that chain analysis and chain surveillance firms still use to this day.

700
00:52:33,612 --> 00:52:36,092
And it's not a very reliable heuristic.

701
00:52:36,092 --> 00:52:40,332
and it certainly shouldn't be being used as evidence in court cases, which it is.

702
00:52:41,332 --> 00:52:45,812
But the more we can undermine that heuristic, the better.

703
00:52:45,952 --> 00:52:49,452
And that's what Samurai Wallet really was all about, undermining heuristics,

704
00:52:50,432 --> 00:52:54,032
introducing doubt to a public ledger.

705
00:52:54,632 --> 00:53:00,012
And that's what makes it even more ludicrous that the DOJ went this route

706
00:53:00,012 --> 00:53:02,332
because that's what we're talking about here, right?

707
00:53:02,332 --> 00:53:08,952
We're not talking about a company that took custody of anyone's funds and did things with it.

708
00:53:08,952 --> 00:53:17,112
We're talking about a software product that used math to introduce doubt to the blockchain.

709
00:53:17,812 --> 00:53:21,232
And that's what the DOJ has said is a financial service.

710
00:53:21,752 --> 00:53:26,712
And that's what the DOJ said should have applied for a money transmitter's license,

711
00:53:27,352 --> 00:53:31,492
even though the regulator in charge of money transmission said that's not necessary.

712
00:53:32,332 --> 00:53:40,952
Bob, as you know, there's been some talk that that this might lead to money transmission being required from miners.

713
00:53:41,112 --> 00:53:44,132
What are your thoughts on this? And I'd love to hear your thoughts for Keone.

714
00:53:44,932 --> 00:53:48,512
Yeah. First, Keone, I don't think we've ever met Bob Burnett.

715
00:53:49,212 --> 00:53:50,072
Hi, nice to meet you.

716
00:53:50,512 --> 00:53:54,272
From Barefoot Mining, also on the board of directors at Ocean.

717
00:53:55,012 --> 00:54:01,992
And, you know, it's first I thought for those who weren't at the very beginning, I was I was here when you first came on.

718
00:54:01,992 --> 00:54:04,972
And I thought you gave some really good advice.

719
00:54:05,152 --> 00:54:11,712
I'd encourage people to rewind where you talked about, you know, what people can do to protect themselves.

720
00:54:12,692 --> 00:54:21,312
That said, I do want to say I think it's important as well that not that people go to prison or go through what you've gone through.

721
00:54:21,312 --> 00:54:26,972
But I think it's important for some of the community to be out there.

722
00:54:27,432 --> 00:54:29,312
Like some people have to be real.

723
00:54:29,432 --> 00:54:31,892
I think there's something to be said for that.

724
00:54:31,992 --> 00:54:34,252
And Larry was on earlier.

725
00:54:34,372 --> 00:54:35,392
Larry's a real good friend of mine.

726
00:54:35,472 --> 00:54:41,972
And I think one of the things that we can do as older members of the community, get into your 60s or so, your kids are grown.

727
00:54:43,292 --> 00:54:45,452
You have a little less to lose, maybe.

728
00:54:45,812 --> 00:54:52,652
And so I think it's maybe a little easier for some of us to be front and center to what's going on.

729
00:54:52,652 --> 00:54:55,112
And to be honest, I've had this conversation with my wife.

730
00:54:55,112 --> 00:55:02,952
as a miner, and I'm both a miner and a guy with tentacles into a pool, too.

731
00:55:03,512 --> 00:55:06,892
And I look at it and go, well, if they can come after Keone,

732
00:55:07,352 --> 00:55:10,072
there's really no reason they can't come after me.

733
00:55:11,292 --> 00:55:18,732
Especially as a guy who creates his own templates and makes transaction selections,

734
00:55:19,292 --> 00:55:22,652
I'm not asking for this, but I would say I'm doing something

735
00:55:22,652 --> 00:55:25,272
that's probably

736
00:55:25,272 --> 00:55:27,412
closer to the line than anything

737
00:55:27,412 --> 00:55:29,032
that you ever did. And I think it's just

738
00:55:29,032 --> 00:55:31,752
an absolute travesty

739
00:55:31,752 --> 00:55:33,172
that you're

740
00:55:33,216 --> 00:55:38,036
taking this. I would, I'm not wishing it upon myself, but I wish they would have come after me

741
00:55:38,036 --> 00:55:46,316
or somebody like me instead of you. Because I think they would have tested it better, but it's

742
00:55:46,316 --> 00:55:53,936
just such bullshit. But I do think we have to be prepared. Thank God Trump won. Because I could see

743
00:55:53,936 --> 00:56:00,536
where the Biden administration was rearing up. Like they were absolutely rearing up to come after

744
00:56:00,536 --> 00:56:10,376
the mining community. In fact, I remember I was in a room in Texas about two years ago,

745
00:56:10,456 --> 00:56:18,676
and we had a little meeting with mining CEOs. And Ted Cruz came into the room to meet with us.

746
00:56:18,736 --> 00:56:24,476
There was maybe like seven, eight of us. And as he walked in the room, he's taken off his sport coat.

747
00:56:25,036 --> 00:56:29,856
And before he even sits down, he says, hey, before I say anything, guys, I just want you to know

748
00:56:29,856 --> 00:56:32,236
that all the people in the US,

749
00:56:32,456 --> 00:56:34,916
the Biden administration hates you guys more than anybody.

750
00:56:35,796 --> 00:56:38,656
It was like, wow, okay.

751
00:56:39,436 --> 00:56:42,456
Not surprised, but very, very telling.

752
00:56:43,796 --> 00:56:44,776
They were open about it.

753
00:56:45,176 --> 00:56:46,996
They were very open about it.

754
00:56:48,176 --> 00:56:48,956
Yeah, absolutely.

755
00:56:48,956 --> 00:56:54,136
At one point, they wanted to get a sort of minute list

756
00:56:54,136 --> 00:56:57,296
of the energy source, who you were buying it from,

757
00:56:57,296 --> 00:57:00,376
how much you're spending on it, what the cost was.

758
00:57:00,656 --> 00:57:04,596
And I mean, they wanted to KYC your energy at that point.

759
00:57:04,676 --> 00:57:06,896
I think they wanted to send that to block templates.

760
00:57:07,996 --> 00:57:09,416
Yeah, those surveys went out.

761
00:57:09,916 --> 00:57:13,396
And I think it was Warren and Granholm,

762
00:57:13,656 --> 00:57:17,196
who were Secretary Granholm from the Department of Energy.

763
00:57:17,196 --> 00:57:19,556
And they were just in such obvious cahoots

764
00:57:19,556 --> 00:57:23,116
trying to make that whole thing happen.

765
00:57:23,196 --> 00:57:24,276
It was just ridiculous.

766
00:57:25,916 --> 00:57:27,036
Marty, I'd love to ask you.

767
00:57:27,036 --> 00:57:30,416
Actually, people, please scan the QR code, sign a petition.

768
00:57:31,296 --> 00:57:36,156
Marty, does this case kind of affect you maybe as a father or like thinking about your kids?

769
00:57:36,236 --> 00:57:37,836
I mean, my son's 13 years old.

770
00:57:37,896 --> 00:57:38,716
He loves to code.

771
00:57:38,896 --> 00:57:40,576
I'm trying to explain this case to him.

772
00:57:41,416 --> 00:57:42,796
It brings in politics.

773
00:57:43,036 --> 00:57:44,496
It brings in computer science.

774
00:57:44,756 --> 00:57:49,016
But for me, I think about sort of their freedom and sort of that.

775
00:57:49,316 --> 00:57:51,736
Does this affect you as a father thinking about your kids?

776
00:57:52,736 --> 00:57:52,996
Totally.

777
00:57:52,996 --> 00:57:56,716
Yeah, I mean, my kids are a bit younger.

778
00:57:56,716 --> 00:58:03,496
my oldest he's he's almost sick so he's getting to the point where he can read and do math and

779
00:58:03,496 --> 00:58:10,836
understands things and is curious and is exploring his curiosity and i look at him and the other two

780
00:58:10,836 --> 00:58:18,256
boys and think what what world are you going to live in and i mean the the oldest too he does

781
00:58:18,256 --> 00:58:24,196
chores for bitcoin and he has an e-cash wallet which uses blinded signatures and his private

782
00:58:24,196 --> 00:58:27,876
digital cash. I guess he'll be looked at as a criminal, as a five-year-old

783
00:58:27,876 --> 00:58:31,936
getting 5,000 stats every time he cleans his room.

784
00:58:31,936 --> 00:58:35,296
I don't think it is. Crazy to think that

785
00:58:35,296 --> 00:58:39,956
something, an app that my five-year-old uses

786
00:58:39,956 --> 00:58:43,736
and gets a lot of value out and is learning a lot about Bitcoin

787
00:58:43,736 --> 00:58:47,036
using it could be viewed as

788
00:58:47,036 --> 00:58:52,096
a criminal app or criminal activity in the eyes of the law

789
00:58:52,096 --> 00:58:54,336
It's just objectively insane.

790
00:58:56,156 --> 00:58:57,276
But it's funny.

791
00:58:57,376 --> 00:58:59,096
I think you have to highlight these examples.

792
00:59:00,176 --> 00:59:02,316
And Bitcoin is just simply a technology.

793
00:59:02,676 --> 00:59:05,236
Be leveraged by anyone.

794
00:59:05,996 --> 00:59:16,656
I think we're at a point in time where we really need to get over the hill of this sort of negative connotation of using Bitcoin.

795
00:59:16,656 --> 00:59:19,916
and particularly using it in a specific way

796
00:59:19,916 --> 00:59:22,856
or certain wallets like Samurai

797
00:59:22,856 --> 00:59:24,996
or an e-cash wallet that give you privacy

798
00:59:24,996 --> 00:59:27,976
and being looked at as a criminal.

799
00:59:28,136 --> 00:59:31,056
It's just objectively insane, like I was saying earlier.

800
00:59:31,456 --> 00:59:33,776
We have the primitives to build out

801
00:59:33,776 --> 00:59:35,856
a new banking and payment system

802
00:59:35,856 --> 00:59:39,416
that is completely separate from the incumbent system,

803
00:59:39,496 --> 00:59:40,256
which is archaic.

804
00:59:41,496 --> 00:59:43,316
And that's an incredible potential.

805
00:59:43,696 --> 00:59:45,196
We have two paths we can go down.

806
00:59:45,196 --> 00:59:52,716
we can cuck the world and try to corral Bitcoin into this hyper centralized surveilled system,

807
00:59:52,716 --> 00:59:59,836
or we literally have the ability to build a sci-fi banking system from scratch. And when I look at

808
00:59:59,836 --> 01:00:05,856
my boys, it's like, I hope they're able to live in the latter reality and they're able to help

809
01:00:05,856 --> 01:00:13,796
contribute to that. Yeah, for sure. Now, one of the things I think becomes very apparent, hopefully,

810
01:00:13,796 --> 01:00:20,656
hopefully to all those Bitcoiners out there, is that I think the classic mantra for Bitcoiners is

811
01:00:20,656 --> 01:00:24,896
we're taking control of the money printer, right? We're shutting off the money printer.

812
01:00:25,376 --> 01:00:31,296
But that actually may well be secondary to the use of the monetary system as a means of

813
01:00:31,296 --> 01:00:37,196
control and as a weapon. And because that's actually probably the more powerful thing,

814
01:00:37,196 --> 01:00:45,816
in my opinion. And so when we threaten that, I think it's why Keone is where he is today,

815
01:00:45,816 --> 01:00:53,936
because that is being threatened. And that is the ultimate scare, especially to the deep state,

816
01:00:54,016 --> 01:01:04,016
to the bureaucrats, to the inherent meat of the system. And by the way, we're just talking about

817
01:01:04,016 --> 01:01:06,876
it's happening in the U S you know,

818
01:01:06,936 --> 01:01:10,036
as we look at the ECB and some of those other organizations,

819
01:01:10,036 --> 01:01:15,936
I think there's going to be very similar retaliatory defensive actions on

820
01:01:15,936 --> 01:01:17,216
their part as they're threatened.

821
01:01:18,236 --> 01:01:21,176
Yeah. It might be, it might even be worse. Yeah.

822
01:01:21,656 --> 01:01:24,436
And it's, it's rules for the, not for me all over the place.

823
01:01:24,436 --> 01:01:28,936
These people really bringing the hammer down are some of the,

824
01:01:28,936 --> 01:01:34,796
the most egregious offenders of these things that they deem to be bad.

825
01:01:35,556 --> 01:01:36,356
And it's, it's,

826
01:01:36,536 --> 01:01:40,156
it's one of the things that is so disgusting about this case to me is that

827
01:01:40,156 --> 01:01:45,456
they used such violent force to make a point with you.

828
01:01:46,736 --> 01:01:50,936
And, you know, in, in the face of that,

829
01:01:50,996 --> 01:01:53,816
how is your family handling this or how,

830
01:01:53,896 --> 01:01:57,816
how are you and your wife and how is that all going?

831
01:01:57,816 --> 01:02:02,856
Is it something that you can talk about or want to share?

832
01:02:03,036 --> 01:02:04,056
Yeah, sure.

833
01:02:04,216 --> 01:02:06,576
I mean, it was traumatic, right?

834
01:02:06,696 --> 01:02:13,756
Like it was five in the morning on April 24th, had no idea this was coming.

835
01:02:13,996 --> 01:02:19,656
And suddenly you're being swarmed by 50 highly armed FBI agents.

836
01:02:21,176 --> 01:02:25,936
You're looking at your wife who has laser sights pointed at her chest.

837
01:02:25,936 --> 01:02:31,876
and we're talking about a white collar crime that I'm not even guilty of but you know it's a white

838
01:02:31,876 --> 01:02:36,936
collar crime there's no victim there's no history of violence I've never been arrested before I've

839
01:02:36,936 --> 01:02:42,516
never had any interaction with law enforcement there's no they had been surveilling me for weeks

840
01:02:42,516 --> 01:02:50,876
they knew there was no risk of violence they knew that all they had to do was call my lawyer who is

841
01:02:50,876 --> 01:02:55,616
public and known and say hey we think your client is breaking the law let's talk or have him surrender

842
01:02:55,616 --> 01:03:00,376
himself or something along those lines. And that would have been fine. You know, there would have

843
01:03:00,376 --> 01:03:05,116
been no issue. But they weren't interested in that. They were interested in creating theater

844
01:03:05,116 --> 01:03:10,296
and creating a spectacle, right? Because they wanted to put out the press release. They wanted

845
01:03:10,296 --> 01:03:17,636
to put it, you know, make a show out of it to dissuade people from doing what we did. And,

846
01:03:17,636 --> 01:03:24,876
you know, Bob said it perfectly. We were attacking the fundamental source of their power,

847
01:03:24,876 --> 01:03:32,076
right as long as as that's how they saw it and the only way you can respond to that is with

848
01:03:32,076 --> 01:03:39,796
overwhelming force you have to take them out uh them being us uh so that's what they did uh so how

849
01:03:39,796 --> 01:03:45,296
how we're doing we're fine you know it was it was stressful and traumatic on the day uh but we're

850
01:03:45,296 --> 01:03:52,456
we're okay we're i think my dog has you know had the worst reaction to it i think he has a severe

851
01:03:52,456 --> 01:03:58,056
case of PTSD now because he never used to bark at cars driving by and now he only barks at cars

852
01:03:58,056 --> 01:04:06,536
driving by. So besides that, we're fine. It took a little while, but we feel secure in our home and

853
01:04:07,256 --> 01:04:10,536
you know, we just get, we're just getting on with it.

854
01:04:11,096 --> 01:04:18,156
I mean, the theater of violence is just absolutely disgusting. And it really proves the point that

855
01:04:18,156 --> 01:04:23,116
they're trying to make you look guilty when there's not a real crime.

856
01:04:24,036 --> 01:04:24,756
Absolutely.

857
01:04:25,576 --> 01:04:25,736
Right.

858
01:04:26,736 --> 01:04:33,756
And I'm wondering, I'm hoping that most of the world is seeing through that.

859
01:04:33,956 --> 01:04:36,256
And certainly I think Donald Trump will see through that.

860
01:04:37,256 --> 01:04:38,156
Well, they raided him.

861
01:04:38,676 --> 01:04:41,496
They did not need to raid the former president of the United States.

862
01:04:41,496 --> 01:04:44,956
They did not need to send an FBI SWAT team to Mar-a-Lago.

863
01:04:45,216 --> 01:04:46,616
He has been through this.

864
01:04:46,616 --> 01:04:58,136
And that's what I think our best bet is that the president has gone through this by the same DOJ, the Biden DOJ, and he's even dealt with this district.

865
01:04:58,616 --> 01:05:00,716
So, you know, it's completely unnecessary.

866
01:05:01,096 --> 01:05:02,436
It was unnecessary what they did to us.

867
01:05:02,476 --> 01:05:03,956
It was unnecessary what they did to him.

868
01:05:04,556 --> 01:05:11,756
There's so many parallels that I think, like I was saying earlier, the biggest obstacle was getting this in front of the president.

869
01:05:11,756 --> 01:05:17,856
once it's in front of the president, I think our chances are much better because he can see right

870
01:05:17,856 --> 01:05:22,836
through it. You can see the parallels in his own case, and he knows what a weaponized DOJ looks like.

871
01:05:23,476 --> 01:05:27,376
So scan that petition, you guys. Make sure that this gets pushed to the president.

872
01:05:28,016 --> 01:05:31,956
Marty, would you have ever imagined, well, I like to think that the Bitcoin community has really

873
01:05:31,956 --> 01:05:37,936
sort of risen to the occasion and can make some noise. What do you think is sort of the ability

874
01:05:37,936 --> 01:05:40,816
the Bitcoin community to sort of corral energy

875
01:05:40,816 --> 01:05:42,916
and bring attention to our issues?

876
01:05:43,636 --> 01:05:48,096
I think it's one of our greatest strengths, I think.

877
01:05:48,676 --> 01:05:51,956
I mean, it's talked about quite a bit,

878
01:05:52,056 --> 01:05:54,016
like the meme warfare that we're engaged in

879
01:05:54,016 --> 01:05:55,496
in the digital age.

880
01:05:55,596 --> 01:06:00,576
Bitcoiners are pretty good at the information war.

881
01:06:00,576 --> 01:06:02,336
And I think we saw this with Ross.

882
01:06:03,316 --> 01:06:07,816
Granted, that took many years to get him out of prison,

883
01:06:07,936 --> 01:06:09,896
but the community was relentless.

884
01:06:10,496 --> 01:06:13,796
And when President Trump was inaugurated the second time,

885
01:06:13,936 --> 01:06:16,556
he got his full pardon.

886
01:06:16,736 --> 01:06:19,816
And I think we learned a lot of lessons from that.

887
01:06:19,876 --> 01:06:22,436
I think Ross getting pardoned was a big,

888
01:06:22,576 --> 01:06:25,576
oh, shit, we can do this if we really put the effort in.

889
01:06:25,576 --> 01:06:28,336
I think this time around with Keone and Bill,

890
01:06:29,896 --> 01:06:35,016
I think we sort of took the lessons learned from the success we had.

891
01:06:35,016 --> 01:06:56,716
And with Ross's part in and began to apply that playbook more aggressively, I would argue, over the last two weeks, I'm astonished at the sort of speed and veracity with which this campaign for you, Keone and Bill, has really taken hold over the last couple of weeks.

892
01:06:56,716 --> 01:07:07,496
And it's highly encouraging, particularly considering the state of discourse in the Bitcoin space over the last two years, which has been heavily focused on number go up and Bitcoin treasury companies.

893
01:07:07,496 --> 01:07:21,016
There were a lot of people, myself included, who were worried that there wasn't enough care or people were beginning to care less about the sort of cypherpunk distributed sovereign nature of Bitcoin.

894
01:07:21,016 --> 01:07:32,776
And I think the last two weeks for me personally, really been encouraging to know that people actually do care that the properties that made this protocol work in the first place are worth defending.

895
01:07:33,876 --> 01:07:43,176
Yeah, it has been encouraging to see that. Absolutely. It's something that, you know, I kind of thought as well that was dying out in this space.

896
01:07:43,176 --> 01:07:50,396
kind of normal. More retail comes in. Bitcoin is a huge industry now. It's a lot of new people.

897
01:07:50,936 --> 01:07:56,156
So you're going to have some dilution of values and a little concerning because to me,

898
01:07:56,396 --> 01:08:01,836
number will go up, but the value proposition is censorship resistance and peer-to-peer cash.

899
01:08:02,256 --> 01:08:07,096
To me, that's where the value lies. And if you're not highlighting that or focusing on that,

900
01:08:07,356 --> 01:08:12,616
then you're really not sharing the right thing. You're sharing number going up.

901
01:08:13,176 --> 01:08:29,836
But not why it's going on. And I was, you know, I just didn't know about this, this community in this way. Right. I was with you, Mark. I thought, you know, they don't care, but clearly they do care. Right. We're seeing so many people come out and support Samurai.

902
01:08:29,836 --> 01:08:32,916
Many of them had never even heard of Samurai.

903
01:08:33,596 --> 01:08:39,256
We didn't cross their radar, but they heard the story.

904
01:08:39,676 --> 01:08:41,376
They heard what went down.

905
01:08:41,856 --> 01:08:48,276
And people have an innate ability to know when something isn't right, when something isn't just, when something isn't fair.

906
01:08:48,696 --> 01:08:51,936
And they picked up on that, and they recognized that.

907
01:08:52,056 --> 01:08:53,816
And I think it's very, very encouraging.

908
01:08:53,816 --> 01:09:00,056
I know we have a new person here, but I just wanted to respond to something Bob said a little while ago.

909
01:09:00,376 --> 01:09:03,316
So thank you, Bob, for coming. It's nice to meet you.

910
01:09:03,956 --> 01:09:07,536
You said that we need people to go on the front lines and push the line.

911
01:09:07,876 --> 01:09:12,536
You're absolutely right. That's how we advance as society and as an industry.

912
01:09:12,696 --> 01:09:19,516
We need people to push. So if I did that, then I think that's successful.

913
01:09:19,516 --> 01:09:32,034
And I think you doing that as well in the mining community and with Ocean And then the second thing you mentioned is something I think we discussed on Marty podcast about Bitcoin miners

914
01:09:33,174 --> 01:09:34,814
And you nailed it.

915
01:09:34,854 --> 01:09:36,294
You got that absolutely right.

916
01:09:36,294 --> 01:09:48,174
If what Samurai Wallet was doing is considered money transmission, according to the Southern District of New York, then it's impossible to really understand how miners aren't money transmitters.

917
01:09:48,254 --> 01:09:50,234
If we're using their theory, right?

918
01:09:50,234 --> 01:09:56,254
You're literally selecting transactions to be put in the block, which is broadcast to the network.

919
01:09:56,934 --> 01:10:03,974
The transactions that Samurai Wallet built, they didn't exist yet until a miner put them into the block.

920
01:10:04,374 --> 01:10:05,574
They were mere proposals.

921
01:10:06,134 --> 01:10:07,594
They were mere suggestions.

922
01:10:09,894 --> 01:10:17,774
So using the theory, which is wrong, by the way, but using the theory that the DOJ has come up with in this case, everyone's a money transmitter.

923
01:10:17,774 --> 01:10:19,134
Miners are a money transmitter.

924
01:10:19,134 --> 01:10:21,134
Lightning nodes are money transmitters.

925
01:10:21,134 --> 01:10:24,134
Decash mints are money transmitters.

926
01:10:24,134 --> 01:10:32,134
Marty, you said your son might be interacting with an unlawful application.

927
01:10:32,134 --> 01:10:37,134
Using this rationale that the DOJ has come up with, they are.

928
01:10:37,134 --> 01:10:40,134
They are absolutely using an unlawful application.

929
01:10:40,134 --> 01:10:46,134
The DOJ said that every single Bitcoin that went through our software was unlawful.

930
01:10:46,134 --> 01:10:50,174
every single doesn't matter what the source was or whether it was illicit they

931
01:10:50,174 --> 01:10:54,214
use the term unlawful and the reason they said that every single Satoshi that

932
01:10:54,214 --> 01:10:58,374
went through Sam right while it was unlawful is their theory stated that we

933
01:10:58,374 --> 01:11:03,754
were a money transmitter and as a money transmitter we had obligations KYC and

934
01:11:03,754 --> 01:11:07,054
AML because if you're if you're a money transmitter you do have those legal

935
01:11:07,054 --> 01:11:11,694
obligations and because we didn't do it KYC or AML because you know frankly no

936
01:11:11,694 --> 01:11:15,494
one thought that a non custodial piece of software had to but because we didn't

937
01:11:15,494 --> 01:11:22,914
do that every single Satoshi that went through our software was unlawful. So unless if your child

938
01:11:22,914 --> 01:11:31,374
has not been KYC and gone through the AML process to receive his 5000 sats, that's unlawful. And

939
01:11:31,374 --> 01:11:37,994
this is the theory that we're working with as per SDNY. And it's very clear to anyone who's listening,

940
01:11:37,994 --> 01:11:43,094
I hope that it's absurd. It's an absurd situation that they put us into.

941
01:11:43,094 --> 01:11:52,014
and you mentioned it earlier um about the insanity of the money money laundering laws

942
01:11:52,014 --> 01:11:58,554
the crimes that they created in the 70s and extended in the 90s and cedric to your question

943
01:11:58,554 --> 01:12:03,014
about the strength of the community i think honestly that's this is something i've been

944
01:12:03,014 --> 01:12:08,834
talking about for years and i think um when you and bill are ultimately part in this it's going to

945
01:12:08,834 --> 01:12:13,874
be a long haul and it's not going to be easy and we're going to be thought of as crazy in the

946
01:12:13,874 --> 01:12:19,574
beginning but we really need to push to repeal the bank secrecy act all this stems from that's

947
01:12:19,574 --> 01:12:27,394
that terrible act that was passed in 1970 i think and it's completely antiquated it does not

948
01:12:27,394 --> 01:12:33,314
it is not is the digital age and it doesn't work in the digital age it was

949
01:12:33,314 --> 01:12:41,774
written in an era of in the industrial age and it was very analog and it's not evolving with the

950
01:12:41,774 --> 01:12:49,174
times and like you said earlier it's just creating crimes compliance cost and a bunch of data

951
01:12:49,174 --> 01:12:55,214
aggregation that actually does more net harm than good at the end of the day puts way more people

952
01:12:55,214 --> 01:13:02,974
in harm's way by creating these data honeypots that are notoriously very notoriously have very

953
01:13:02,974 --> 01:13:08,574
weak security are often hacked. The information's taken, sold on the deep web. You have people

954
01:13:08,574 --> 01:13:13,214
getting their identities stolen, getting credit cards taken out, their name, getting bank accounts

955
01:13:13,214 --> 01:13:18,194
strained, all because all these services need to collect this data and they don't know how to secure

956
01:13:18,194 --> 01:13:24,894
it. And it does not stop the crimes they're claiming that it should be stopping. I think the

957
01:13:24,894 --> 01:13:32,634
status going around I think like five or six years ago I think um uh KYC AML compliance

958
01:13:32,634 --> 01:13:38,934
has stopped something like 0.1 percent of global money laundering since um since they've been

959
01:13:38,934 --> 01:13:45,334
implemented and so it's completely ineffective and completely harmful to end consumers at the

960
01:13:45,334 --> 01:13:52,734
end of the day it is a net negative and we need to just own it like this doesn't work and we

961
01:13:52,734 --> 01:13:57,534
shouldn't have to live this way i think that should be one of the things that we go after as

962
01:13:57,534 --> 01:14:00,694
a community it's going to be again it's going to be a long haul it's not going to be easy we're

963
01:14:00,694 --> 01:14:05,914
going to be thought of as crazy but we should repeal the bank secrecy act yeah so me saying

964
01:14:05,914 --> 01:14:14,374
that opinion and being anti-kyc aml was also used um heavily in the courtroom to prove my intent uh

965
01:14:14,374 --> 01:14:22,314
to commit crimes uh so the opinion you just uh just espoused there marty could be dangerous but

966
01:14:22,314 --> 01:14:34,574
You're absolutely right. The AML and KYC regime brought about by the Bank Secrecy Act, extended in the 90s, extended yet again in the Patriot Act, is not fit for purpose.

967
01:14:34,754 --> 01:14:40,074
It doesn't do what they hope it would do. It stops almost no crime.

968
01:14:40,534 --> 01:14:51,274
The people who are committing the crimes know how to get around the system, know how to get through the AML and the KYC checks and continue to commit those crimes.

969
01:14:51,274 --> 01:15:09,714
What AML and KYC is very successful at is keeping people out of the financial system, keeping law abiding citizens who can't pass these checks, who don't have the right documents, who are under documented or whatever the case may be from access to the financial system.

970
01:15:10,214 --> 01:15:12,074
And that's what was so powerful about Bitcoin.

971
01:15:12,574 --> 01:15:14,074
They didn't need to do that.

972
01:15:14,074 --> 01:15:24,774
they could have into a financial system that was quicker, better, more superior, safer than the fiat system or the existing system.

973
01:15:25,574 --> 01:15:37,434
And the whole point of Samurai Wallet was to put the stop or put the brakes on turning Bitcoin into just another tentacle of the existing financial system.

974
01:15:38,094 --> 01:15:41,534
And luckily, it hasn't become that yet, but it can.

975
01:15:41,534 --> 01:16:02,194
I think I talked about it on your podcast, Marty. It's not a divine gift from God that came out perfectly formed. That's not what Bitcoin is. Bitcoin is software and it requires software developers. It requires economists. It requires smart people to work on it and protect it from becoming a surveillance panopticon.

976
01:16:02,194 --> 01:16:06,894
make it a beacon of human freedom.

977
01:16:08,274 --> 01:16:09,794
So absolutely.

978
01:16:10,194 --> 01:16:12,194
And let's definitely repeal the BSA.

979
01:16:12,574 --> 01:16:15,234
I think a lot of people could get on board with that.

980
01:16:16,694 --> 01:16:18,154
Yeah, definitely time.

981
01:16:18,414 --> 01:16:20,734
And, you know, I'm going to have to bounce, Keone.

982
01:16:20,734 --> 01:16:28,994
But I do want to say that I mind block 927604 a couple days ago.

983
01:16:29,634 --> 01:16:31,354
It's there for everybody to see.

984
01:16:31,354 --> 01:16:35,054
I've done dozens more over the past year.

985
01:16:35,954 --> 01:16:41,454
And, you know, if Keone is going to prison, then come get me too.

986
01:16:41,774 --> 01:16:49,454
Because, you know, I'm doing something way worse than he is if that's the way it belongs.

987
01:16:50,074 --> 01:16:51,954
Did you say before that you wish it was you and not him?

988
01:16:53,674 --> 01:16:55,314
Well, I don't wish it upon anybody.

989
01:16:55,474 --> 01:16:59,594
Well, did you say that you wished it was yourself that they came after?

990
01:16:59,594 --> 01:17:03,154
Yeah, I'd be the more obvious target, frankly.

991
01:17:04,114 --> 01:17:05,174
Yeah, yeah.

992
01:17:05,374 --> 01:17:07,814
I'm a lot closer to the line than he is.

993
01:17:09,434 --> 01:17:11,054
And so, yeah.

994
01:17:11,714 --> 01:17:12,794
Yeah, absolutely.

995
01:17:14,054 --> 01:17:16,194
Well, I hope you're never in this situation, Bob.

996
01:17:16,314 --> 01:17:17,574
It's a pleasure meeting you.

997
01:17:18,394 --> 01:17:22,694
But if you are in this situation, if you find yourself in this situation,

998
01:17:22,694 --> 01:17:27,594
I know you would be a worthy fighter, a worthy opponent.

999
01:17:27,594 --> 01:17:33,754
do well well thank you god bless you keone uh we're we're rooting for you i'll do i'll do all

1000
01:17:33,754 --> 01:17:39,994
i can uh sending a note to uh representative donald's right now who represents my area

1001
01:17:39,994 --> 01:17:46,074
to try to help and uh we'll uh we'll see what we can do but god bless you and merry christmas

1002
01:17:46,714 --> 01:17:52,794
yeah you too thank you thanks bob see you bob brandon gentile mr hockey fellow bitcoin

1003
01:17:52,794 --> 01:17:58,634
podcast how are you great how are you guys keone good to see you we haven't met but uh

1004
01:17:59,354 --> 01:18:06,954
uh just appreciate the fight and um just awesome awesome talk here and you know run run a pod as

1005
01:18:06,954 --> 01:18:13,114
well um i've seen you doing the circuit um so you know we're streaming on a bunch of my channels

1006
01:18:13,114 --> 01:18:18,554
here as well just doing everything we can and um i think you guys you guys you guys nailed it i mean

1007
01:18:18,554 --> 01:18:23,354
it's this this country and here in america at least and you know all over the world obviously

1008
01:18:23,354 --> 01:18:27,354
but also bitcoiners are getting a wake-up call right that politics politics is a mirror of

1009
01:18:27,354 --> 01:18:33,194
culture and and for too long too many have been silent and an evil exists because good people

1010
01:18:33,194 --> 01:18:37,514
stand idly by and do nothing and we just need to know you know that's why i think things like this

1011
01:18:37,514 --> 01:18:41,754
are so important because not that bad things aren't going to happen in life but uh look at you know

1012
01:18:41,754 --> 01:18:47,274
bitcoiners turn out and things happen when we know what's going on uh and you see the ramifications

1013
01:18:47,274 --> 01:18:53,154
or the importance of it. And you see so many people that say, Bitcoin won't work because

1014
01:18:53,154 --> 01:18:56,354
government's going to shut it down or this and that and the other thing. And you see the mentality

1015
01:18:56,354 --> 01:19:01,754
that most people have that we've been brainwashed for so long to just tamed like sheep. And

1016
01:19:01,754 --> 01:19:07,534
politics is downstream from culture. So it's dependent on a few people. Revolutionary War

1017
01:19:07,534 --> 01:19:12,434
was a few percent of people that grabbed the musket. Here, we're proverbially doing it. But

1018
01:19:12,434 --> 01:19:18,614
they they said yeah no f off we're not doing this anymore and so it's it's the irate minority can

1019
01:19:18,614 --> 01:19:22,154
make a massive impact so I think this is just another great example it sucks we have to keep

1020
01:19:22,154 --> 01:19:26,894
doing stuff like this you know it's Ross or or this or whatever but at some point the the tide

1021
01:19:26,894 --> 01:19:31,634
shifts so just you want to say thank you again the community what you guys are doing for privacy and

1022
01:19:31,634 --> 01:19:37,454
freedom um and uh and like what Marty said too it's I have four little ones you think about the

1023
01:19:37,454 --> 01:19:41,894
world they're going to grow up in all of our kids our children and you're you're just kind of beside

1024
01:19:41,894 --> 01:19:46,014
yourself. You see the things happening in the world and you're just like, wow, these incentives

1025
01:19:46,014 --> 01:19:51,094
are so broken, so backwards. Again, it's not going to be some utopia because of Bitcoin, but

1026
01:19:51,094 --> 01:19:56,814
we are just, we're wildly off the tracks. And the people here are the ones fighting to bring it back

1027
01:19:56,814 --> 01:20:02,434
on the track somehow. So again, just my hats off to you and what you're doing, brother. It's amazing.

1028
01:20:03,634 --> 01:20:08,694
Yeah. Thank you very much. And it's nice to meet you. And if you sent me a message asking me to do

1029
01:20:08,694 --> 01:20:14,774
your podcast and I didn't respond, I'm sorry. I had so many coming in. I may not have seen it.

1030
01:20:15,734 --> 01:20:21,274
No, I never actually did. I've been posting a lot. There were so many every day I was seeing.

1031
01:20:21,394 --> 01:20:25,074
I mean, Marty did it. Cedric did it. I mean, I just want everyone that was doing it. So I was

1032
01:20:25,074 --> 01:20:29,694
like, hey, I'm going to do some other things, some other ways to try. That's good with me.

1033
01:20:29,694 --> 01:20:33,654
Yeah, I was worried. I was thinking, oh man, did I ghost this guy or leave him on red?

1034
01:20:33,654 --> 01:20:39,254
no no no i knew you were just i've had so many come in i've tried to respond to them all but i

1035
01:20:39,254 --> 01:20:45,254
may have missed a couple so i didn't respond uh to anyone i'm sorry uh but uh i've been doing my

1036
01:20:45,254 --> 01:20:51,654
best to get on these i did i think nine hours of pure recordings straight last week on a single day

1037
01:20:52,374 --> 01:20:59,014
which is a lot which is a lot to do uh but yeah no i i appreciate i appreciate that greatly man

1038
01:20:59,014 --> 01:21:06,134
thank you very much um you know we didn't do this to be martyrs we didn't do this to to go to jail

1039
01:21:06,134 --> 01:21:10,854
we did this because we wanted to build software that we thought bitcoin deserved and that we

1040
01:21:10,854 --> 01:21:17,654
wanted to use ourselves um it just so happens you know we uh caught the attention of the wrong type

1041
01:21:17,654 --> 01:21:23,894
of people uh doj and um they came down on us and you know it's a beautiful thing now that

1042
01:21:23,894 --> 01:21:31,814
so many people in the community are seeing what's going on right I spent over a year not being able

1043
01:21:31,814 --> 01:21:37,174
to speak and not being able to tell people my side of the story right they only had one side

1044
01:21:37,174 --> 01:21:43,414
of the story I had to listen to you know 50 different prosecutors tell their side of the

1045
01:21:43,414 --> 01:21:49,934
story about my life and it's tough to not be able to say anything about it now I can you know

1046
01:21:49,934 --> 01:21:54,874
sentencing is done. I can speak and I've been speaking and I think that's really what people

1047
01:21:54,874 --> 01:22:00,534
needed. They needed to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak. And they need to, you know,

1048
01:22:00,534 --> 01:22:06,574
because they heard it again, one side and the government side is, I've called an indictment

1049
01:22:06,574 --> 01:22:11,074
government fan fiction because that's really what it is. You know, they come up with these theories

1050
01:22:11,074 --> 01:22:16,834
and then try to stretch everything, the truth, the truth to fit their purposes. But people needed

1051
01:22:16,834 --> 01:22:18,914
to hear my side and decide for themselves.

1052
01:22:19,034 --> 01:22:20,574
Do they think I'm telling the truth or not?

1053
01:22:20,634 --> 01:22:22,174
It's the court of public opinion now.

1054
01:22:22,274 --> 01:22:22,934
That's where we're at.

1055
01:22:22,994 --> 01:22:25,114
And I think that's a battle

1056
01:22:25,114 --> 01:22:27,854
that we're largely being successful at.

1057
01:22:28,474 --> 01:22:31,254
So I appreciate your words.

1058
01:22:31,314 --> 01:22:32,034
Thank you very much.

1059
01:22:32,774 --> 01:22:34,854
And if I can hop in here,

1060
01:22:34,894 --> 01:22:36,654
I think it's important to highlight too,

1061
01:22:36,654 --> 01:22:39,274
that you really valued your privacy

1062
01:22:39,274 --> 01:22:40,654
and outside of your Twitter account

1063
01:22:40,654 --> 01:22:42,394
weren't really in the public limelight.

1064
01:22:42,514 --> 01:22:43,954
So it's actually been shocking to see you

1065
01:22:43,954 --> 01:22:44,934
on so many shows.

1066
01:22:44,934 --> 01:22:51,994
over the last week. And so you've had something stripped from you, which is you're, you try to

1067
01:22:51,994 --> 01:22:55,994
stay out of the public limelight for, as you were building out Samurai. Now you've sort of been

1068
01:22:55,994 --> 01:23:01,194
forced into it and that's been, part of you has been corrupted in a way. It's a good point.

1069
01:23:01,194 --> 01:23:08,654
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I, I, I tried to keep my identity as Keone separate from Samurai

1070
01:23:08,654 --> 01:23:28,192
wallet when i when we built it we wanted samurai wallet to stand on its own reputation not use my reputation or bill reputation right we both were in the wallet space for a long time already We both had somewhat of a reputation in Bitcoin but we felt Samurai Wallet should develop and build its own image

1071
01:23:28,832 --> 01:23:32,832
So yeah, I did so many interviews over the 10 years of operating Samurai Wallet,

1072
01:23:32,892 --> 01:23:36,632
not one on camera, not one using my name as Keone.

1073
01:23:38,012 --> 01:23:42,552
And to be on all of these podcasts now is certainly strange.

1074
01:23:42,552 --> 01:23:47,192
but the government took it all away, right?

1075
01:23:47,272 --> 01:23:50,192
They published who I am, my name.

1076
01:23:50,532 --> 01:23:52,552
They made my address publicly available,

1077
01:23:53,112 --> 01:23:56,912
which I wasn't very appreciative of, but they did.

1078
01:23:57,152 --> 01:23:59,492
And so, you know, you're just living with that now.

1079
01:24:00,092 --> 01:24:02,632
And it's okay.

1080
01:24:02,752 --> 01:24:04,452
You know, I can swallow that and say,

1081
01:24:04,552 --> 01:24:07,932
okay, now I am the public face of Samurai, right?

1082
01:24:07,932 --> 01:24:09,632
Now the identities are connected.

1083
01:24:09,952 --> 01:24:11,232
I'm going to get out there.

1084
01:24:11,312 --> 01:24:12,412
I'm going to tell the story.

1085
01:24:12,552 --> 01:24:20,092
And I think, again, I think it's been largely successful in getting that story out there and having people connect to it.

1086
01:24:20,832 --> 01:24:31,952
And, you know, I think I don't want to sound arrogant saying this, but I think people connect to the story because it's the truth and people can identify the truth.

1087
01:24:32,412 --> 01:24:41,432
Right. If I'm sitting on here doing eight hours a day of podcasts, speaking lies to them, they're going to figure it out pretty quickly.

1088
01:24:41,432 --> 01:24:49,192
but because it's the truth that I am speaking quite honestly they they pick up on that and

1089
01:24:49,192 --> 01:24:55,172
they're drawn to it and they realize that this is a serious thing that what they had maybe what

1090
01:24:55,172 --> 01:25:01,432
they had heard before from the government side of things really isn't adding up right like oh he

1091
01:25:01,432 --> 01:25:09,652
created this criminal empire to launder funds but it took like five years of development to actually

1092
01:25:09,652 --> 01:25:15,292
produce the piece of software that was the main element of the criminal activity. Like why? Why,

1093
01:25:15,492 --> 01:25:21,052
if I was a criminal, would I spend five years building out a non-custodial coin joint? Why

1094
01:25:21,052 --> 01:25:26,112
wouldn't I just make a custodial mixer like everyone else did? Right? Like, so these little

1095
01:25:26,112 --> 01:25:32,072
things that just don't add up in the government's accounting of events, which can be explained by,

1096
01:25:32,072 --> 01:25:36,512
oh, wait, maybe he wasn't doing it to facilitate crime. Maybe he actually cares about privacy

1097
01:25:36,512 --> 01:25:38,212
and cares about self-custody.

1098
01:25:39,012 --> 01:25:42,772
And, you know, so I think that's the reason

1099
01:25:42,772 --> 01:25:44,312
why people are hearing the message

1100
01:25:44,312 --> 01:25:46,252
and it's resonating with them.

1101
01:25:48,352 --> 01:25:48,872
Yeah.

1102
01:25:49,192 --> 01:25:51,612
Before we get to maybe some new blood,

1103
01:25:51,752 --> 01:25:54,672
Shannon's here and some mystery person or robot.

1104
01:25:56,252 --> 01:25:59,092
Marty, do you feel a sense of responsibility?

1105
01:25:59,312 --> 01:26:02,132
Do you feel like a freedom fighter as a podcaster

1106
01:26:02,132 --> 01:26:04,812
and the ability to kind of surface voices like this

1107
01:26:04,812 --> 01:26:06,472
at your level?

1108
01:26:06,512 --> 01:26:08,552
and a sort of sense of responsibility?

1109
01:26:09,212 --> 01:26:13,072
Or are we in the proverbial salon here of a revolution

1110
01:26:13,072 --> 01:26:16,012
and this is where the ideas are being sort of hashed out

1111
01:26:16,012 --> 01:26:18,012
and causes are being supported?

1112
01:26:20,672 --> 01:26:22,172
I try not to think about it.

1113
01:26:22,272 --> 01:26:24,712
Really, I mean, the podcast and the newsletter

1114
01:26:24,712 --> 01:26:27,072
for the last eight years, it's really just been,

1115
01:26:27,732 --> 01:26:29,672
hey, here's what I'm interested in Bitcoin.

1116
01:26:29,872 --> 01:26:35,072
Here's what I think are the right tools

1117
01:26:35,072 --> 01:26:41,552
of years to use here's what i value and um if you like that i'm going to write about it and talk

1118
01:26:41,552 --> 01:26:46,912
about it and i think it's attracted a lot of like-minded individuals and converted people who

1119
01:26:46,912 --> 01:26:53,292
maybe didn't think that way in the past and um responsibility yeah i guess now that the audience

1120
01:26:53,292 --> 01:27:00,352
is bigger i do but i don't think much has changed i think it's the the same the same goal and the

1121
01:27:00,352 --> 01:27:05,312
same mentality I bring to it day in and day out.

1122
01:27:05,452 --> 01:27:05,732
Again,

1123
01:27:05,852 --> 01:27:12,972
I truly think that we have the ability to rebuild the monetary system,

1124
01:27:13,052 --> 01:27:13,692
the banking system,

1125
01:27:13,772 --> 01:27:15,632
the payment system on top of Bitcoin.

1126
01:27:15,972 --> 01:27:17,352
I think that's an incredible opportunity.

1127
01:27:17,572 --> 01:27:22,592
I think we should go after it full bore because it is incredibly liberating

1128
01:27:22,592 --> 01:27:27,332
for humanity at a time when we're losing our civil liberties left and right.

1129
01:27:27,332 --> 01:27:29,492
so it's a fighting chance to

1130
01:27:29,492 --> 01:27:30,852
preserve

1131
01:27:30,852 --> 01:27:33,812
our inalienable rights as we

1132
01:27:33,812 --> 01:27:35,912
continue to transition into the

1133
01:27:35,912 --> 01:27:36,952
digital age so I guess

1134
01:27:36,952 --> 01:27:39,612
to your question I feel responsible

1135
01:27:39,612 --> 01:27:41,672
I don't think about it a lot but I guess

1136
01:27:41,672 --> 01:27:43,852
now that you're forcing me to think about it

1137
01:27:43,852 --> 01:27:46,052
I do think it's

1138
01:27:46,052 --> 01:27:47,832
responsible to advocate

1139
01:27:47,832 --> 01:27:48,952
for this stuff particularly

1140
01:27:48,952 --> 01:27:51,552
the responsibility I have is for

1141
01:27:51,552 --> 01:27:53,952
my wife and my children really at the end

1142
01:27:53,952 --> 01:27:55,912
of the day be a good example

1143
01:27:55,912 --> 01:28:01,752
for them and hopefully it resonates with people and people recognize that this is a liberating

1144
01:28:01,752 --> 01:28:06,152
technology and we should be leaning into it it's not a bad thing it's actually an incredibly

1145
01:28:06,952 --> 01:28:14,792
beautiful um and fabulous thing that bitcoin exists um i guess my responsibility is how people

1146
01:28:14,792 --> 01:28:27,252
realize that is this shannon fitzgerald it is hello um something that struck me as really

1147
01:28:27,252 --> 01:28:34,432
important to surface um you know a knock on wood keone and bill spend little to no time behind bars

1148
01:28:34,432 --> 01:28:39,752
but in the event that they do um it's really important that we keep the story alive it's

1149
01:28:39,752 --> 01:28:45,212
incumbent upon all of us to be active on social media. My background is social content strategy,

1150
01:28:45,732 --> 01:28:50,712
digital media strategy. You do not have to have a huge following to make a difference. Just be

1151
01:28:50,712 --> 01:28:57,352
consistent. Spend 10 or 15 minutes a day. Get it. Find pockets of conversation that's happening in

1152
01:28:57,352 --> 01:29:02,392
the culture. It could be a reporter who you see, oh, they're talking about something that could be

1153
01:29:02,392 --> 01:29:07,592
related, that this could be a point of interest for them. Get in the comments. Start trying to

1154
01:29:07,592 --> 01:29:12,532
create a two-way conversation. Commenting is content. You don't have to post videos or graphics

1155
01:29:12,532 --> 01:29:18,432
or, right, just get in there and be active. Start siphoning out, you know, social equity in the

1156
01:29:18,432 --> 01:29:24,992
conversations that are happening organically. Keep the story alive. You know, use Pardon Samurai

1157
01:29:24,992 --> 01:29:30,812
hashtag just to keep things consistent. There's a lot you can do even if you have 15 followers

1158
01:29:30,812 --> 01:29:34,632
because the quality of those followers are probably people you know. They trust you.

1159
01:29:34,632 --> 01:29:43,632
share your thoughts, your quotes that you like that Keone has said. Retweet articles.

1160
01:29:44,292 --> 01:29:51,372
Make your own graphics. AI has a wide variety of tools that make this so easy. But keep the story

1161
01:29:51,372 --> 01:29:55,972
alive. It's up to us to keep this going. This is the hard part now is going to be sustaining it

1162
01:29:55,972 --> 01:30:01,652
because right now there's a ticking clock, a sense of urgency because Keone reports to jail Friday,

1163
01:30:01,652 --> 01:30:03,472
Bill follows in January.

1164
01:30:05,472 --> 01:30:08,692
But we may have to really keep this alive.

1165
01:30:08,832 --> 01:30:10,172
So everybody can do something.

1166
01:30:10,332 --> 01:30:12,212
You have more power than you think.

1167
01:30:12,912 --> 01:30:13,792
So go at it.

1168
01:30:14,892 --> 01:30:16,892
And also, Brandon, I'm a fellow hockey player.

1169
01:30:16,972 --> 01:30:19,172
So if you ever want to game a shinny and you're in LA, let me know.

1170
01:30:19,652 --> 01:30:20,692
Canadian Bitcoin Conference.

1171
01:30:20,912 --> 01:30:21,452
You got to come.

1172
01:30:21,552 --> 01:30:22,252
USA versus Canada.

1173
01:30:23,152 --> 01:30:23,752
I was there.

1174
01:30:24,232 --> 01:30:24,872
Yeah, Cedric was there.

1175
01:30:25,492 --> 01:30:26,732
Skating circles around people.

1176
01:30:27,352 --> 01:30:29,232
We got Parker A. Lewis here in Maryland.

1177
01:30:29,372 --> 01:30:29,732
HODL.

1178
01:30:29,912 --> 01:30:30,792
Parker, what's up?

1179
01:30:30,792 --> 01:30:38,472
thank you for joining us hey guys um keone we have never met but i uh our company co-signed the

1180
01:30:38,472 --> 01:30:43,752
letter that you um as part of samurai and 1031 put together i think at the beginning of last

1181
01:30:44,552 --> 01:30:52,952
beginning of 2024 and yeah just wanted to to join and voice my support i've read the exact same

1182
01:30:52,952 --> 01:31:00,352
same guidance from FinCEN that I know that you guys have read. And it was crystal clear,

1183
01:31:00,512 --> 01:31:08,512
not just from the guidance, but also from the private letter rulings that FinCEN had issued.

1184
01:31:09,432 --> 01:31:13,592
And while our business as AppRite is very different than what you guys were building

1185
01:31:13,592 --> 01:31:19,932
at Samurai, we write software, we take in XPUBs, we facilitate transactions, but we're never in

1186
01:31:19,932 --> 01:31:26,172
possession of funds. And if not just the government, but some prosecutors wanted to

1187
01:31:26,172 --> 01:31:31,012
decide that we were operating an unlicensed money transmitter business, it would be the

1188
01:31:31,012 --> 01:31:39,752
identical case. And that it's important for people to speak up in support of you guys,

1189
01:31:40,412 --> 01:31:47,092
because, you know, I heard Larry on earlier, I was watching them just, there's not a case,

1190
01:31:47,092 --> 01:31:57,272
And it's basically making up law based on lawyers wanting to make examples of people and to set precedent.

1191
01:31:57,772 --> 01:32:00,232
And that's not what our country is about.

1192
01:32:00,452 --> 01:32:07,552
So just wanted to join and voice my support and everybody that works on the team supports you guys.

1193
01:32:08,652 --> 01:32:09,392
Yeah, thank you.

1194
01:32:09,492 --> 01:32:10,592
Thank you so much, Parker.

1195
01:32:10,952 --> 01:32:12,192
I appreciate that.

1196
01:32:12,192 --> 01:32:16,412
I'm glad you brought up the letter for the people who don't know.

1197
01:32:16,992 --> 01:32:20,212
I think it was February of 2024.

1198
01:32:22,412 --> 01:32:36,012
Samurai Wallet authored with the help of a pretty deep legal team, a letter to FinCEN responding to some proposed rules that they were trying to come up with.

1199
01:32:36,012 --> 01:32:41,912
And we thought that the rules went too far and would impact end users quite negatively.

1200
01:32:42,192 --> 01:32:46,592
So we put together a letter putting our legal position forward.

1201
01:32:47,392 --> 01:32:52,572
And many, many Bitcoin based companies signed on to this letter.

1202
01:32:53,352 --> 01:32:56,192
1031, which Marty is representing their hat right now.

1203
01:32:57,612 --> 01:33:01,912
They shared out this letter with their portfolio companies and other companies.

1204
01:33:02,132 --> 01:33:06,112
And a lot of people signed on to this letter and we submitted it to FinCET.

1205
01:33:06,112 --> 01:33:14,492
um so i i again we i had just finished talking about the the little inconsistencies in the

1206
01:33:14,492 --> 01:33:20,592
government's theory and and storytelling that that the only reason that we created samurai wallet was

1207
01:33:20,592 --> 01:33:24,992
to facilitate crime and money laundering right from the get-go right from the beginning this

1208
01:33:24,992 --> 01:33:31,412
was their theory um and how i was saying that there's just these little inconsistencies there

1209
01:33:31,412 --> 01:33:44,832
So I think one of the inconsistencies is if we were setting up a illegal money laundering business, why in the world would we engage proactively with the financial crime enforcement network?

1210
01:33:45,392 --> 01:33:49,552
Right. The regulator in charge of combating illicit finance.

1211
01:33:49,732 --> 01:33:51,992
Our whole goal was illicit finance.

1212
01:33:52,492 --> 01:33:54,752
So these things just don't make any sense.

1213
01:33:54,812 --> 01:33:58,732
That's not the actions that a criminal organization takes.

1214
01:33:58,732 --> 01:34:00,392
They don't engage the regulator.

1215
01:34:01,412 --> 01:34:21,752
So thank you. Yeah, thank you for bringing that up, Parker. And also, you're right. Any business, literally any software business that the DOJ or rogue prosecutor wants to target can be targeted using the theories that they put forward in this case, the novel theories that they put forward in this case.

1216
01:34:21,752 --> 01:34:28,092
you know so if you're doing something that remotely threatens power they're going to come

1217
01:34:28,092 --> 01:34:33,132
down on you like they did with us so it's important to build up that immune system to build that

1218
01:34:33,132 --> 01:34:40,052
response up so that if and when this happens to the next group of software developers or the next

1219
01:34:40,052 --> 01:34:48,172
miners the lightning nodes or the e-cashments we're here to start the response much earlier than

1220
01:34:48,172 --> 01:34:50,932
then the response has been started in our case, right?

1221
01:34:50,932 --> 01:34:55,372
We're immediately on them and they know that they're not going to be getting

1222
01:34:55,372 --> 01:34:58,092
away with this in the shadows. And, you know,

1223
01:34:58,632 --> 01:35:01,872
I think that's really the takeaway that we need to have that next time this

1224
01:35:01,872 --> 01:35:02,332
happens,

1225
01:35:02,932 --> 01:35:08,492
the community activates and goes all out in defense of our software developers

1226
01:35:08,492 --> 01:35:11,972
because it's so important and our builders and our companies because it's so

1227
01:35:11,972 --> 01:35:12,352
important.

1228
01:35:14,872 --> 01:35:16,432
Yeah. I wish I could find it,

1229
01:35:16,432 --> 01:35:20,212
but I just remember when I did my review of the, of all of that,

1230
01:35:20,452 --> 01:35:25,092
basically the statutes, the, the FinCEN guidance,

1231
01:35:25,332 --> 01:35:29,532
the various different guidance from FinCEN and the private letter rulings,

1232
01:35:29,612 --> 01:35:30,832
but it was just, it was,

1233
01:35:30,912 --> 01:35:33,932
it's expressly clear that you had to be in control of funds,

1234
01:35:34,052 --> 01:35:41,572
that the definition of money transmission required possession of funds and

1235
01:35:41,572 --> 01:35:50,212
transmission and that um you know in the private letter rulings they would they would a company

1236
01:35:50,212 --> 01:35:55,092
would have a question and they'd say this either was or wasn't and there was one instance where

1237
01:35:55,092 --> 01:36:00,372
they said hey you're actually not in possession so therefore you're not a money transmitter and

1238
01:36:01,252 --> 01:36:07,572
um you know private keys are saying sacred in bitcoin that that is control and

1239
01:36:07,572 --> 01:36:13,032
And if, you know, it's just, it's like, if you want to write a new law, that's Congress.

1240
01:36:13,032 --> 01:36:23,652
Congress write a new law and make it very clear what businesses that look a certain way, how they're to be treated.

1241
01:36:23,652 --> 01:36:33,652
and if there's a gap in that you know using novel theories to just make examples from what the doj

1242
01:36:33,652 --> 01:36:42,452
wishes there to be an actual law in place you know the absence of it is not okay to then just

1243
01:36:42,452 --> 01:36:49,012
just prosecute um so and i know a lot of people in the bitcoin world have read those same things

1244
01:36:49,012 --> 01:36:50,412
and it creates a lot of uncertainty.

1245
01:36:50,412 --> 01:36:52,712
It creates uncertainty for everybody.

1246
01:36:52,712 --> 01:36:55,152
And so it's not only that we need clarity,

1247
01:36:55,152 --> 01:36:58,052
but in this case, we had, you had clarity,

1248
01:36:58,052 --> 01:37:03,052
people had clarity and yeah, so it's a grave injustice.

1249
01:37:04,252 --> 01:37:06,872
Well, I'll open this up to everybody, anybody on the panel,

1250
01:37:06,872 --> 01:37:22,350
but I mean this really proves the point right That this the money transmission regulations and statutes it also clear but this case even though that was the plea was really about the privacy issues associated with

1251
01:37:22,350 --> 01:37:27,710
your transactions and so what does that really say about the state of bitcoin going forward and

1252
01:37:27,710 --> 01:37:33,070
the state of development and the creation of privacy tools and it seems to me that that's

1253
01:37:33,070 --> 01:37:39,870
where we're really stepping on toes and that that's where the true issues are lying how do you guys

1254
01:37:39,870 --> 01:37:46,430
feel about that so i just want to finish i just want to say one thing uh in response to parker

1255
01:37:46,430 --> 01:37:52,270
and then i'll let everyone else talk i have been talking a lot um but again you're absolutely right

1256
01:37:52,270 --> 01:38:00,830
on the the clarity of fincen guidance 2013 2019 uh private letter guidance like it's it's so clear

1257
01:38:00,830 --> 01:38:08,430
no one no one thought that um money transmission uh applied unless you took custody right that was

1258
01:38:08,430 --> 01:38:15,710
the de facto understanding in the community uh since at least 2013. and in fact again i'm glad

1259
01:38:15,710 --> 01:38:22,030
you brought this up in fact i don't know how familiar you are with the uh details of our case

1260
01:38:22,030 --> 01:38:30,190
but the government the prosecutors in our case six months before indictment went to fincen and asked

1261
01:38:30,190 --> 01:38:36,830
fincen explicitly our samurai wallet money transmitters and fincen responded explicitly

1262
01:38:36,830 --> 01:38:45,550
to our prosecutors no they don't take custody i thought i had seen that i wasn't 100 like

1263
01:38:45,550 --> 01:38:52,030
that was my memory but i wasn't as confident in it to say it um because it's not it's nonsensical

1264
01:38:52,030 --> 01:38:54,750
right that's why it's hard to believe because it's nonsensical but yeah

1265
01:38:54,750 --> 01:39:06,370
Yeah. So they had it crystal clear from FinCEN that we were not required to have a license because we were not money transmitters.

1266
01:39:06,370 --> 01:39:12,810
The government then indicted us with one of the charges being unlicensed money transmission.

1267
01:39:13,250 --> 01:39:23,030
Then they held that evidence that that letter that they got from FinCEN, they hid that from us for over a year while we were in the pretrial phase.

1268
01:39:23,030 --> 01:39:47,770
So, you know, you're absolutely right. It was clear. It was crystal clear from FinCET, right? There was no question about it. The government knew, the prosecutor knew, and it didn't matter, right? They came after anyway, these novel new theories. And again, you hit the nail on the head. If they want to change the law, it has to come through Congress.

1269
01:39:47,770 --> 01:39:57,090
The legislature wants to make non-custodial software money transmitters, then write a law, get it passed, get it signed by the president.

1270
01:39:57,650 --> 01:39:58,910
But that's not what they did here.

1271
01:39:59,110 --> 01:40:03,370
Right. Because then if they did that, then you could challenge that in court.

1272
01:40:04,210 --> 01:40:04,350
Right.

1273
01:40:05,210 --> 01:40:05,630
That's right.

1274
01:40:06,190 --> 01:40:06,390
Right.

1275
01:40:06,670 --> 01:40:08,010
The absence of it, you can't.

1276
01:40:10,030 --> 01:40:15,230
Yeah. Then it becomes a legal battle of what does control mean.

1277
01:40:15,230 --> 01:40:22,610
Or just like, is it constitutional? If it was, you know, like, then we could have the First Amendment debate.

1278
01:40:26,230 --> 01:40:36,510
Yeah, absolutely right. So sorry for hijacking the answer to that question, but I wanted to get that out there because I thought it was important for the listeners and guys to know that fact.

1279
01:40:36,510 --> 01:41:01,890
You set up the question perfectly. I mean, that is what you had to plea to. But what really seems to be happening here is the fact that private transactions are under attack. And the privacy and the ability to censor is under attack. The creation of censorship is their agenda, right?

1280
01:41:01,890 --> 01:41:04,690
So what do you guys think about that?

1281
01:41:04,750 --> 01:41:10,730
I mean, this is something that Bitcoin has stood for for a long time, that this is uncensorable money.

1282
01:41:10,970 --> 01:41:13,310
This is unstoppable money.

1283
01:41:13,950 --> 01:41:17,830
But if they're willing to go to this extent, where does that put us today?

1284
01:41:18,230 --> 01:41:20,510
We got Maryland Howell jumped in.

1285
01:41:21,470 --> 01:41:21,630
Yeah.

1286
01:41:21,870 --> 01:41:22,510
Also jumped in.

1287
01:41:22,630 --> 01:41:28,650
But Maryland Howell, you want to share some words, maybe some thoughts on the question and just some love and support for Keone?

1288
01:41:29,090 --> 01:41:29,530
Sure.

1289
01:41:29,870 --> 01:41:31,210
I'll start with Keone.

1290
01:41:31,210 --> 01:41:34,130
Yeah, my heart goes out to you and your family.

1291
01:41:34,610 --> 01:41:36,450
So sorry you're in this position.

1292
01:41:38,870 --> 01:41:44,530
See, my framing around all this is the systems that are set up for TradFi

1293
01:41:44,530 --> 01:41:50,290
aren't sophisticated enough to basically work with the system

1294
01:41:50,290 --> 01:41:54,510
and the ecosystem that's developing now with Bitcoin and its ecosystem.

1295
01:41:54,510 --> 01:42:00,270
So ultimately, they're using you as an example.

1296
01:42:00,270 --> 01:42:05,490
and it's a show of force and it's a grave injustice that's happening right now.

1297
01:42:05,850 --> 01:42:10,370
It started with the Biden administration and it's continued with the Trump administration.

1298
01:42:10,690 --> 01:42:16,870
And I, unfortunately, I think it's going to be very telling whether Trump actually gives the

1299
01:42:16,870 --> 01:42:22,410
pardon or not as to where the direction of the country is going to be from a privacy perspective.

1300
01:42:22,410 --> 01:42:31,310
and you know i think my hat's off to everybody that's been participating and sharing the message

1301
01:42:31,310 --> 01:42:37,910
i do it more quietly just through kind of acts but um been monitoring it basically for months now

1302
01:42:37,910 --> 01:42:44,390
and you know i have a lot of hope and thought um that trump's going to pull through on this

1303
01:42:44,390 --> 01:42:52,170
but if he doesn't it's i think we're in a very tough situation going forward because

1304
01:42:52,170 --> 01:42:57,550
ultimately what I believe is going to end up happening is the state is ultimately out to

1305
01:42:57,550 --> 01:43:06,770
control and squash Bitcoin. I can't see it any other way outside of that. But I think hopefully

1306
01:43:06,770 --> 01:43:11,410
in the coming weeks, we're going to have clear direction as to a positive stance on that. So

1307
01:43:11,410 --> 01:43:15,990
until that point comes, my prayers are with you and your family.

1308
01:43:15,990 --> 01:43:24,370
Yeah, thank you very much. I appreciate that greatly. Yeah, the only thing I'll say to that

1309
01:43:24,370 --> 01:43:30,130
is I don't think the state has any interest in destroying and squashing Bitcoin. I think the

1310
01:43:30,130 --> 01:43:34,950
interest lies in capture. So I think they have a great interest in capturing Bitcoin,

1311
01:43:35,370 --> 01:43:40,450
which is one of the same thing as destroying it, at least to me. If it becomes captured,

1312
01:43:40,450 --> 01:43:46,290
then it's really not all that interesting. And that's why what we're building is so important,

1313
01:43:46,290 --> 01:43:55,250
like focusing on the privacy to support censorship resistance, to keep Bitcoin decentralized through

1314
01:43:56,610 --> 01:44:09,170
a variety of distributed miners, to build up the core tenant of non-custody, of self-custody,

1315
01:44:10,450 --> 01:44:18,210
reducing trusted third parties. These are all core Bitcoin tenants that are required to help prevent

1316
01:44:18,210 --> 01:44:24,570
a state capture of the network. And if we give up on those tenants, the state will capture the

1317
01:44:24,570 --> 01:44:29,470
network. And that's really bad, especially with lack of privacy, because Bitcoin is so transparent,

1318
01:44:29,470 --> 01:44:37,390
it gives the state way more insight into the movement of funds into your financial picture

1319
01:44:37,390 --> 01:44:39,450
than even the fiat system.

1320
01:44:39,930 --> 01:44:43,230
So it's essential that we focus on these things.

1321
01:44:43,230 --> 01:44:44,910
And I do have one question for you.

1322
01:44:45,510 --> 01:44:48,130
What is the moat, basically,

1323
01:44:48,350 --> 01:44:50,750
that keeps the stuff that you were working on

1324
01:44:50,750 --> 01:44:55,730
from a kid in a basement from around the world somewhere,

1325
01:44:56,110 --> 01:44:58,550
figuring it out over a period of time,

1326
01:44:58,610 --> 01:45:02,910
or if AI advances enough and a coder has enough wherewithal

1327
01:45:02,910 --> 01:45:09,390
to developing a decentralized version of what you guys were ultimately about ready to put out

1328
01:45:09,390 --> 01:45:16,330
because i think that's ultimately what the threat was but i mean yeah i can't imagine we're more

1329
01:45:16,330 --> 01:45:25,470
than a couple years away from things like this ultimately being out and produced at you know a

1330
01:45:25,470 --> 01:45:31,550
high velocity um and if that's the case you know decentralization is always going to win you're

1331
01:45:31,550 --> 01:45:37,170
not going to be able to to beat this especially if we start getting more decentralized ai so that

1332
01:45:37,170 --> 01:45:44,370
they can't essentially control you know what we're using ai for um i just they're fighting a battle

1333
01:45:44,370 --> 01:45:52,490
they can't win to be honest yeah i i think so but then it also becomes like a cultural battle so if

1334
01:45:52,490 --> 01:46:00,910
the the culture broadly doesn't care and has that that concept of well i have nothing to hide so

1335
01:46:00,910 --> 01:46:07,450
why do I need privacy? If that's like a cultural norm throughout Bitcoin, then we won't move fast

1336
01:46:07,450 --> 01:46:13,810
enough. It really won't matter. But I don't think that we're there yet. And as a pure response to

1337
01:46:13,810 --> 01:46:21,010
your question, we were way closer than a year or two away from decentralizing our tool. The main

1338
01:46:21,010 --> 01:46:25,770
tool we built that the government had the biggest issue with was our CoinJoin implementation called

1339
01:46:25,770 --> 01:46:32,470
Whirlpool, we were like four months away from decentralizing that, where our one single point

1340
01:46:32,470 --> 01:46:39,230
of failure was the single server that we ran that handled the anonymous communication between

1341
01:46:39,230 --> 01:46:43,950
different clients. It passed messages. It couldn't read the messages, but it sent them out.

1342
01:46:44,510 --> 01:46:50,470
We're literally months away from making every Bitcoin node that ran our software

1343
01:46:50,470 --> 01:46:55,790
a coordinator server, there would have been thousands of them in the blink of an eye.

1344
01:46:55,790 --> 01:47:03,410
And I truly believe that the government brought up the raid that they ended up doing on April 24th

1345
01:47:03,410 --> 01:47:10,350
from what would have probably been later to April 24th because they did not want us to get to that

1346
01:47:10,350 --> 01:47:17,490
state where Whirlpool became decentralized. So we were close. The good thing about that is our code

1347
01:47:17,490 --> 01:47:24,750
is still out there. People made copies of our code base. It was always open source. So that code,

1348
01:47:24,910 --> 01:47:29,790
all that work that we put into decentralizing Whirlpool still exists. And it's not going away.

1349
01:47:29,850 --> 01:47:34,450
So someone will do it at some point, I imagine. Maybe Nate Dogg.

1350
01:47:35,710 --> 01:47:42,150
Hello, gentlemen. It's good to see you again, Keone. It's interesting times. I've been listening

1351
01:47:42,150 --> 01:47:45,130
to the stream while getting the kids down. And I appreciate what everybody's doing here. I think

1352
01:47:45,130 --> 01:47:48,670
it's really important work. And, you know, there's something that really stood out to me. I think we

1353
01:47:48,670 --> 01:47:52,850
kind of touched on a bit earlier. I think maybe it was Seb that brought it up. But it's amazing to

1354
01:47:52,850 --> 01:47:57,190
me that in all this, the guys from Samurai have given us yet another gift, right? Beyond the

1355
01:47:57,190 --> 01:48:02,250
privacy tech. Over the last, what, year, Bitcoiners have basically been at each other's throats.

1356
01:48:02,470 --> 01:48:06,790
And all of a sudden, everybody is rallying together, focused on mission, focused on brand.

1357
01:48:06,870 --> 01:48:10,670
We know what's really important and we're pushing behind it. And it's absolutely beautiful and

1358
01:48:10,670 --> 01:48:14,610
wonderful to see. And it means, I think it means a lot to everybody, what you've done and what's

1359
01:48:14,610 --> 01:48:18,370
happening to you. And I think it's really important. So I kind of want to take a little

1360
01:48:18,370 --> 01:48:24,450
bit of a moment here, just to pivot, if I may, just ever so slightly. Everything that everyone's

1361
01:48:24,450 --> 01:48:28,630
been talking about is incredibly important, but we've got a large audience here. I was just taking

1362
01:48:28,630 --> 01:48:33,230
a look. We've got hundreds of people on X. We've got them on YouTube. Everyone's piling in and

1363
01:48:33,230 --> 01:48:38,130
everyone's showing their support. But Bitcoiners at their best is moments like this. And I think

1364
01:48:38,130 --> 01:48:44,250
the state made a really, really bad calculation in going after you guys, because by using such

1365
01:48:44,250 --> 01:48:48,990
excessive force and going to such an extreme, it was enough to, it was, we detected the threat

1366
01:48:48,990 --> 01:48:53,050
immediately. And now we've started to unify and coalesce behind this mission. And we're not,

1367
01:48:53,130 --> 01:48:57,490
we're not going to stop until we get these guys out. And so what I'd like to do, if everyone's

1368
01:48:57,490 --> 01:49:01,410
out there, just put forward, Chad, I see you going off there. And if you can hear me, please,

1369
01:49:01,450 --> 01:49:05,310
you know, let me know there that you're, you're hanging out with us. Everyone that's watching

1370
01:49:05,310 --> 01:49:08,050
this stream right now and everyone that's participating in the stream right now has at

1371
01:49:08,050 --> 01:49:11,210
the very least already signed the petition. I know that you have, and if you haven't,

1372
01:49:11,210 --> 01:49:12,230
I don't know what you're waiting on.

1373
01:49:12,310 --> 01:49:12,870
Stop right now.

1374
01:49:12,930 --> 01:49:15,490
Scan the QR code and go and sign the petition.

1375
01:49:15,610 --> 01:49:16,510
You have no excuse.

1376
01:49:16,790 --> 01:49:17,610
It takes no time.

1377
01:49:17,690 --> 01:49:18,590
It doesn't hurt you at all.

1378
01:49:18,770 --> 01:49:20,770
But that's only going to get us so far.

1379
01:49:20,850 --> 01:49:21,870
I saw we got thousands of people.

1380
01:49:21,930 --> 01:49:24,510
I think last I looked, we're creeping up on 7,500 signatures there.

1381
01:49:24,550 --> 01:49:25,630
I'm not sure if we've gone past that.

1382
01:49:25,670 --> 01:49:27,030
We better get past that by the end of the night.

1383
01:49:27,630 --> 01:49:31,050
Everybody here can be a little bit uncomfortable and do one extra thing for me.

1384
01:49:31,070 --> 01:49:33,190
There's kind of two avenues I think we should encourage people to go out.

1385
01:49:33,290 --> 01:49:37,550
One, think of one other person, whether it's like a celebrity, someone on Twitter you like.

1386
01:49:37,610 --> 01:49:38,190
It's a friend.

1387
01:49:38,270 --> 01:49:38,730
It's a neighbor.

1388
01:49:38,810 --> 01:49:40,330
I want everyone watching the stream.

1389
01:49:40,330 --> 01:49:42,970
And please, if you hear this message, if you acknowledge it, let me know in the chat.

1390
01:49:43,250 --> 01:49:46,850
I want everyone watching this stream, because right now it's a call to action.

1391
01:49:46,930 --> 01:49:48,770
We're here to actually try and get something done.

1392
01:49:49,150 --> 01:49:50,270
This is not a morning.

1393
01:49:50,530 --> 01:49:52,190
This is a time to actually get to work.

1394
01:49:52,270 --> 01:49:55,410
So I want everyone watching this right now to reach out to one person at least.

1395
01:49:55,530 --> 01:49:56,430
One person, right?

1396
01:49:56,590 --> 01:49:59,530
When I'm done here, I'm going to go bug, what's his name?

1397
01:49:59,610 --> 01:50:01,370
Former VP for the Libertarian Party.

1398
01:50:01,750 --> 01:50:02,250
Wonderful dude.

1399
01:50:02,310 --> 01:50:03,610
But he's got You Are the Power.

1400
01:50:03,710 --> 01:50:07,470
It's his organization that helps people in these kind of similar situations, usually family

1401
01:50:07,470 --> 01:50:10,010
related, but still people that are unjustly prosecuted.

1402
01:50:10,330 --> 01:50:35,370
Or Spike Cohen. I'm going to bug Spike Cohen. So as soon as I'm off this stream, I'm going to be typing a message to Spike Cohen if he hasn't already been involved in this and encourage him in his libertarian circles to get on board and help out. So I want everybody watching, please go message one person that you can think of, whether it's somebody that you follow, it's a friend, it's a neighbor. Encourage them to check out BillandKeone.org. Sign the petition. We've got to spread this beyond ourselves. The Bitcoiners are here and they've all signed it. We've got to go a little bit further.

1403
01:50:35,730 --> 01:50:37,250
The other one is I just pulled it up.

1404
01:50:37,290 --> 01:50:39,710
I wanted to check how accurate or how difficult it would be.

1405
01:50:40,090 --> 01:50:40,710
Super easy.

1406
01:50:41,030 --> 01:50:45,330
We've all got access to ChatGPT, and we've all got access to Grok or one of these large language models.

1407
01:50:45,710 --> 01:50:47,990
All I did just a second ago was ask this thing.

1408
01:50:48,070 --> 01:50:49,910
Please write me a letter to my congressman.

1409
01:50:49,970 --> 01:50:51,150
I'm Canadian, so it doesn't know that.

1410
01:50:51,550 --> 01:50:56,050
Please write me a letter to my congressman in support of the samurai devs,

1411
01:50:56,050 --> 01:50:58,790
that what's happening to them is basically unconstitutional.

1412
01:50:59,050 --> 01:50:59,930
It's a travesty.

1413
01:51:00,330 --> 01:51:02,990
You guys, at this point in time, it's not that hard.

1414
01:51:02,990 --> 01:51:05,570
You can copy and paste directly from chat GBT.

1415
01:51:05,570 --> 01:51:06,370
You can ask, you can ask,

1416
01:51:06,408 --> 01:51:11,348
Let's grok who your representative is and what their email address is and what their contact information is.

1417
01:51:11,628 --> 01:51:15,088
You can copy and paste this letter, put your name on the end of it, and send it to them.

1418
01:51:15,348 --> 01:51:17,568
We got this in front of President Trump.

1419
01:51:17,848 --> 01:51:20,908
He's acknowledged it, which means he's probably been briefed on at this point in time.

1420
01:51:21,268 --> 01:51:25,368
I don't want us to feel like, I don't want this to be mourning that the deadline's coming up.

1421
01:51:25,608 --> 01:51:29,268
If we hit Friday and it's not done yet, I don't want to let off the accelerator.

1422
01:51:29,268 --> 01:51:32,148
I want everybody here to push as hard as they can.

1423
01:51:32,148 --> 01:51:36,568
And so that's just kind of the message that I wanted to get out that now is not the time to slow down.

1424
01:51:36,688 --> 01:51:38,408
I know it might be uncomfortable to reach out to people.

1425
01:51:38,508 --> 01:51:39,568
I know we're all kind of shy.

1426
01:51:39,668 --> 01:51:40,468
We don't know what to write.

1427
01:51:40,948 --> 01:51:42,128
Use the use use rock.

1428
01:51:42,248 --> 01:51:43,448
Have it write a message for you.

1429
01:51:43,728 --> 01:51:44,708
Start blasting it out.

1430
01:51:44,788 --> 01:51:46,108
We need to go beyond Bitcoiners.

1431
01:51:46,148 --> 01:51:51,228
We need to talk to libertarians, to gold bugs, to conservatives, to everybody, because everybody can get on board with this mission.

1432
01:51:51,588 --> 01:51:53,108
What's happened here is a complete travesty.

1433
01:51:53,208 --> 01:51:56,488
It's obvious that they've been completely railrolded by the Southern jurisdiction of New York court.

1434
01:51:56,868 --> 01:51:57,628
We can't let up.

1435
01:51:57,768 --> 01:51:59,328
So please, guys, call to action.

1436
01:51:59,808 --> 01:52:00,428
Do something.

1437
01:52:00,548 --> 01:52:01,268
Don't just watch.

1438
01:52:01,268 --> 01:52:03,328
I know that you've already signed and that's so helpful.

1439
01:52:03,588 --> 01:52:05,268
Let's do, let's do one more thing.

1440
01:52:06,188 --> 01:52:06,548
Cheers.

1441
01:52:06,668 --> 01:52:07,028
Well said.

1442
01:52:07,188 --> 01:52:07,948
Well said.

1443
01:52:08,068 --> 01:52:08,228
Yeah.

1444
01:52:08,468 --> 01:52:08,828
Cheers.

1445
01:52:09,668 --> 01:52:10,348
Thanks, mate.

1446
01:52:10,928 --> 01:52:11,508
Of course, Dave.

1447
01:52:12,028 --> 01:52:13,928
By the way, I, I signed the petition.

1448
01:52:14,028 --> 01:52:15,208
I hope everyone else up here did.

1449
01:52:15,288 --> 01:52:18,528
It's, you know, it's like, it's, it's, we want our freedoms, right?

1450
01:52:18,548 --> 01:52:21,308
And we, it's hard to kind of go onto these websites and do these things.

1451
01:52:21,428 --> 01:52:24,368
I did it very easy, very fast, very simple.

1452
01:52:24,368 --> 01:52:25,388
So I recommend it.

1453
01:52:25,668 --> 01:52:27,968
Um, here's, I think it's, I'm looking at the page.

1454
01:52:27,988 --> 01:52:30,248
It's, we're pretty close to 70, 7,500.

1455
01:52:30,248 --> 01:52:55,648
Yeah. But yeah, I mean, look, I, I just want to sort of plus one on off of that, Nathan, because, you know, I think it's, uh, and it goes back to the, the thread in the, in the opening, which was by our brilliant, uh, uh, our brilliant leader here, um, in terms of the samurai warrior, Mr. Keone said, Hey, I want this to be kind of happy. You know, I got, I want this to be like a somber thing. I want this to be a, like, we're continuing to like boldly do this.

1456
01:52:55,648 --> 01:53:15,548
And yeah, I just look like this thing. Hopefully we have a chance here. I told Keone, like, remember we talked on when did we record Sunday? And we were like, yeah, you know, look, I don't know the likelihood of the timing of this. And then Monday, less than 24 hours after we had done that second interview, we have Trump talking about it.

1457
01:53:15,548 --> 01:53:17,088
So like, look, there's a chance here.

1458
01:53:17,548 --> 01:53:21,328
But to Nathan, to your point, like we're trying to get something done here.

1459
01:53:21,328 --> 01:53:29,788
So this is actually the time to push as hard as we can possibly push to celebrate, celebrate Keone, push hard and see if we can't get something done by Friday.

1460
01:53:30,028 --> 01:53:31,448
But that was beautifully said, my friend.

1461
01:53:31,688 --> 01:53:32,428
So I agree.

1462
01:53:32,528 --> 01:53:32,788
Thank you.

1463
01:53:32,868 --> 01:53:33,108
I just.

1464
01:53:33,428 --> 01:53:34,048
Yeah, absolutely.

1465
01:53:34,188 --> 01:53:34,888
Beautifully said.

1466
01:53:34,968 --> 01:53:39,228
I just want to piggyback on it just just briefly, Nate.

1467
01:53:40,548 --> 01:53:42,508
Sign the petition on change.org.

1468
01:53:42,908 --> 01:53:44,248
Change.org is a little sneaky.

1469
01:53:44,248 --> 01:53:46,828
after you sign it, they ask you to donate.

1470
01:53:47,188 --> 01:53:51,268
And a lot of people think they're donating to me and Bill.

1471
01:53:51,648 --> 01:53:52,268
They're not.

1472
01:53:52,668 --> 01:53:55,908
If you donate on change.org, you're just donating to change.org.

1473
01:53:56,808 --> 01:53:58,888
So don't do that.

1474
01:53:58,968 --> 01:54:01,388
Unless you really like change.org, then I guess do it.

1475
01:54:03,088 --> 01:54:06,308
If you want to donate to Bill and myself,

1476
01:54:07,088 --> 01:54:10,768
you'll find the link on BillandKeone.org,

1477
01:54:10,768 --> 01:54:20,888
b-i-l-l-a-n-d-k-e-o-n-n-e.org. There's a give send go link there that will go 50% to my wife,

1478
01:54:20,988 --> 01:54:26,188
Lauren, and 50% to Bill's wife, Sabrina. If you do want to support us financially,

1479
01:54:26,188 --> 01:54:32,868
that's the way to do it. Don't donate on change.org. Just want to make that clear because

1480
01:54:32,868 --> 01:54:38,428
people have been donating to change.org. I think about $15,000 worth of donations have gone to

1481
01:54:38,428 --> 01:54:44,748
change.org and they're they're just a little sneaky um so keep that in mind are you allowed

1482
01:54:44,748 --> 01:54:52,828
to interact with bitcoin keonan no that's i'm glad you asked that so um part of my bail conditions

1483
01:54:52,828 --> 01:55:01,688
are that uh i cannot uh indirectly or directly send or receive any crypto transaction um so

1484
01:55:01,688 --> 01:55:06,548
So we don't have a way to accept donations in Bitcoin yet.

1485
01:55:06,548 --> 01:55:10,728
If I may, sorry to interrupt, Ben saw that after our conversation too.

1486
01:55:10,908 --> 01:55:12,208
I tweeted out, I'll send it to you as well.

1487
01:55:12,388 --> 01:55:19,228
Ben did set up a Bitcoin donation page that if anybody can only send Bitcoin, Sessions is collecting Bitcoin.

1488
01:55:19,408 --> 01:55:21,828
We'll convert that all to fiat and then give it right to the give, send, go.

1489
01:55:23,428 --> 01:55:25,348
Okay, that's awesome. I didn't ask you to do that.

1490
01:55:25,348 --> 01:55:28,388
You did not. There was no affiliation and we're in Canada and he's in no way receiving it.

1491
01:55:28,388 --> 01:55:29,928
This is the first time I'm hearing of this.

1492
01:55:30,128 --> 01:55:33,968
So for any prosecutors listening, that was not direct or indirect.

1493
01:55:34,868 --> 01:55:36,168
Had nothing to do with that.

1494
01:55:36,248 --> 01:55:36,908
So thank you.

1495
01:55:37,088 --> 01:55:37,368
Awesome.

1496
01:55:37,808 --> 01:55:40,428
But yeah, so I just can't do it right now.

1497
01:55:41,368 --> 01:55:46,708
Once I surrender on Friday and once Bill surrenders, I believe it's January 3rd.

1498
01:55:46,968 --> 01:55:54,228
We'll try to get crypto or Bitcoin donations available at that point where it's safer.

1499
01:55:54,428 --> 01:55:57,648
And, you know, I won't have a prosecutor saying, oh, he violated bail conditions.

1500
01:55:57,648 --> 01:56:02,748
there's a new charge. So we just wanted to be on the safe side of that. That's why it only gives

1501
01:56:02,748 --> 01:56:10,428
him go current. Can you talk to Bill now? No, that's also a bail condition. I'm still not

1502
01:56:10,428 --> 01:56:16,848
allowed to talk to Bill without lawyers present. Just so people listening understand, there's bail

1503
01:56:16,848 --> 01:56:21,928
conditions here. So he's basically waiting now to go serve the trial. Correct me if I'm wrong on any

1504
01:56:21,928 --> 01:56:26,008
of this, Gioni, but that's why we're in this in-between period. And part of those conditions

1505
01:56:26,008 --> 01:56:32,148
were you can't do anything with Bitcoin. And so he's had to abide by that agreement. And that's

1506
01:56:32,148 --> 01:56:36,608
why we're sort of waiting now to get to the 19th, see what happens. Hopefully we get the pardon.

1507
01:56:36,608 --> 01:56:43,268
If we don't get the pardon, then it's like game plan shift from 19th after based on the fact that

1508
01:56:43,268 --> 01:56:48,708
he will be then in and then we can do some different things. But I don't want to get over

1509
01:56:48,708 --> 01:56:53,428
our skis. I think right now it's just get the petition signed, continue to show the support,

1510
01:56:53,428 --> 01:56:58,688
continue to be loud, continue to push. We still have until Friday. It's Tuesday, remember.

1511
01:56:59,188 --> 01:57:04,488
We just heard from Trump. And so, look, I said publicly when I saw that Trump posted,

1512
01:57:04,848 --> 01:57:09,848
I was very impressed. Keone, I would love to get your, actually, your thoughts on this. Like,

1513
01:57:10,088 --> 01:57:15,428
I was very impressed, very surprised, kind of blown away on Monday. And look, it took the guy,

1514
01:57:15,548 --> 01:57:22,208
it took Lutz, I think is the name of it, Sanders, Lutz Sanders. And he said something to Trump,

1515
01:57:22,208 --> 01:57:23,608
and that's what got it across the board.

1516
01:57:23,728 --> 01:57:25,808
But I did not expect that to happen.

1517
01:57:26,568 --> 01:57:27,728
Kind of, you know what I mean?

1518
01:57:27,788 --> 01:57:29,428
So I think now we're kind of in a different place

1519
01:57:29,428 --> 01:57:31,608
than we were even 24 hours ago.

1520
01:57:33,408 --> 01:57:34,868
Oh yeah, I totally agree.

1521
01:57:34,948 --> 01:57:36,428
And we kind of talked about it right at the top.

1522
01:57:36,568 --> 01:57:40,168
But again, if the president didn't want to answer that question

1523
01:57:40,168 --> 01:57:42,308
or didn't care to answer it, he wouldn't have answered it.

1524
01:57:42,308 --> 01:57:45,068
The fact that he did spend so much time answering it,

1525
01:57:45,368 --> 01:57:47,868
I think is a positive sign.

1526
01:57:48,528 --> 01:57:50,228
Just reiterating what I already said,

1527
01:57:50,228 --> 01:57:54,948
the president knows about a weaponized Department of Justice. One came after him.

1528
01:57:54,948 --> 01:58:01,848
So putting that in combination with him now knowing our story, I think our chances are

1529
01:58:01,848 --> 01:58:09,068
much better than they were a few days ago. We're moving along. I'm cautiously optimistic. I think

1530
01:58:09,068 --> 01:58:18,828
it's still very likely that I'll report to prison on Friday. But I think that the possibility of a

1531
01:58:18,828 --> 01:58:20,988
pardon is significantly

1532
01:58:20,988 --> 01:58:22,868
better than it was just

1533
01:58:22,868 --> 01:58:24,888
the day before yesterday. So I'm

1534
01:58:24,888 --> 01:58:26,308
optimistic, cautiously.

1535
01:58:27,708 --> 01:58:28,708
Gentlemen, I have to

1536
01:58:28,708 --> 01:58:30,848
bail out Kayone, praying

1537
01:58:30,848 --> 01:58:32,468
for you, brother. Hey, thank you, Marty.

1538
01:58:32,568 --> 01:58:33,528
Everybody go sign the petition.

1539
01:58:34,488 --> 01:58:36,688
Thank you, Marty, for having on the call on

1540
01:58:36,688 --> 01:58:38,148
everything you're doing. Appreciate it.

1541
01:58:38,388 --> 01:58:39,428
See you, Marty.

1542
01:58:39,788 --> 01:58:44,328
All right, Marty's gone. We can get this party started.

1543
01:58:44,328 --> 01:58:53,808
marty's marty's been fantastic uh i just want to say because he's he's also sort of been you know

1544
01:58:53,808 --> 01:59:00,348
obviously early supporter early user early content around this thing and then came back around during

1545
01:59:00,348 --> 01:59:04,468
this heightened period and he's been a he's been a big supporter behind the scenes as well so

1546
01:59:04,468 --> 01:59:11,628
yeah we have a tremendous group behind the scenes who have just been who've been helping so much

1547
01:59:11,628 --> 01:59:21,548
I'm very appreciative of all the work that people are doing and donating their time and energy and effort to to this cause, which is just truly tremendous.

1548
01:59:21,548 --> 01:59:26,908
I thank you. I know Bill thanks you. I haven't spoke to him for any prosecutors listening.

1549
01:59:27,968 --> 01:59:32,988
But Bill's been one of my closest friends for well over a decade.

1550
01:59:33,328 --> 01:59:37,988
Before this all happened, we spoke to each other every day, hours at a time.

1551
01:59:37,988 --> 01:59:44,468
I know that he's appreciative of all the help that everyone is donating and putting out.

1552
01:59:44,788 --> 01:59:48,088
So from both of us, I'm confident saying thank you.

1553
01:59:48,508 --> 01:59:49,548
Thank you to that.

1554
01:59:49,788 --> 01:59:52,568
And I've seen some people say, well, don't forget about Bill.

1555
01:59:52,688 --> 01:59:54,808
And this is all about Keone and not about Bill.

1556
01:59:55,248 --> 01:59:57,108
That couldn't be further from the truth.

1557
01:59:58,628 --> 01:59:59,748
It's just the way Bill is.

1558
01:59:59,788 --> 02:00:00,568
He doesn't like press.

1559
02:00:00,628 --> 02:00:01,548
He doesn't like getting on camera.

1560
02:00:01,628 --> 02:00:02,808
He doesn't like talking publicly.

1561
02:00:04,068 --> 02:00:07,728
Ever since we created Samurai, I was always the one that did press and interviews.

1562
02:00:07,988 --> 02:00:14,408
and podcasts. I was the public voice. Bill was the man behind the throne. He's an essential part

1563
02:00:14,408 --> 02:00:19,328
to the whole operation. So everything that I'm doing is to raise awareness for me and Bill.

1564
02:00:19,628 --> 02:00:24,348
We went through this. We built Samurai together. We were indicted together. We fought the case

1565
02:00:24,348 --> 02:00:28,548
together. We took the deal together and we will get pardoned together if a pardon is going to

1566
02:00:28,548 --> 02:00:33,748
happen. So no one's forgetting Bill. I love Bill to death. When a pardon, sorry. Ride or die.

1567
02:00:33,748 --> 02:00:39,548
still optimistic that right on the night in jail and obviously you know it's gonna be hard to be

1568
02:00:39,548 --> 02:00:43,508
separated from your wife but what what has it been like to be have the reduced communication with bill

1569
02:00:43,508 --> 02:00:49,068
he's been such a big part of your life and a friend yeah that was tough that was absolutely

1570
02:00:49,068 --> 02:00:57,648
tough again i i spoke to bill hours every day uh from essentially the moment i woke up uh so it was

1571
02:00:57,648 --> 02:01:05,088
it was uh getting getting used to to not having that in your life anymore it's it's tough right

1572
02:01:05,088 --> 02:01:11,088
this is a very close friend uh so yeah it's been tough uh dealing with that um you to know he's

1573
02:01:11,088 --> 02:01:24,470
there but i just not allowed to speak with him without lawyers present you know you talking about a five to six thousand dollar an hour conversation if you need to speak with him without lawyers present You talking about a to an hour conversation if you need to speak with him We can do that right That not going to be

1574
02:01:24,470 --> 02:01:31,410
something that we can manage. So I'm hopeful that once this is all over, we'll be able to

1575
02:01:31,410 --> 02:01:37,970
start speaking again. I need to find out the legality of actually inmate to inmate male.

1576
02:01:37,970 --> 02:01:41,590
I know it does happen. It's allowed, but you have to get approval.

1577
02:01:42,250 --> 02:01:45,610
So I'm hopeful that once we're both inside,

1578
02:01:45,810 --> 02:01:49,050
I'll be able to get approval for that so that we could at least write each other.

1579
02:01:50,830 --> 02:01:52,910
Can I just hang on that for one minute?

1580
02:01:53,070 --> 02:01:56,930
Because it just takes me back to the inhumane nature of this whole situation.

1581
02:01:57,150 --> 02:02:01,310
So disgusting that they had found all these different ways to get at you.

1582
02:02:01,350 --> 02:02:05,310
And this is just another example of this is your business partner and friend,

1583
02:02:05,390 --> 02:02:07,210
arguably best friend. I know how it is.

1584
02:02:07,210 --> 02:02:11,110
I've built things before. When you're in there with a co-founder for 10 years building stuff,

1585
02:02:11,230 --> 02:02:16,130
that is a very, very close person in your life. That might be the closest person. I don't know

1586
02:02:16,130 --> 02:02:21,430
how it was for you, but my co-founders, we are close, man. And it's like to then say,

1587
02:02:21,770 --> 02:02:26,550
oh, by the way, now you just can't talk to that person. And it's been how long? Almost two years

1588
02:02:26,550 --> 02:02:32,310
of this. So they can just sort of do these things. And it's very tricky because it's pre-trial. So

1589
02:02:32,310 --> 02:02:37,610
it's like it's just happening like there's no backstop no way for kiana to fight anything it

1590
02:02:37,610 --> 02:02:44,090
just is what it is and in this case just one of many many examples one of the lawfare tactics is

1591
02:02:44,090 --> 02:02:49,550
you can no longer talk to your friend and i just think it's horrible so i hope you guys get to

1592
02:02:49,550 --> 02:02:55,530
read yeah not only your friend but your co-defender yeah in the criminal action they're taking against

1593
02:02:55,530 --> 02:03:01,650
you um it's it's ridiculous right they should have severed the trials if they wanted to to have that

1594
02:03:01,650 --> 02:03:08,410
condition. But no, they wouldn't sever the trials. In fact, they denied the motion to sever the trial

1595
02:03:08,410 --> 02:03:15,910
and they still continued the bail condition of not being allowed to speak to my co-defender

1596
02:03:15,910 --> 02:03:21,890
in this matter. I don't know why, but that's just what they do. And they have all the power

1597
02:03:21,890 --> 02:03:28,270
in this situation. You are powerless. My marijuana dealer just joined the show.

1598
02:03:28,270 --> 02:03:38,510
what's up everybody pleasure to be here um what's up with that yeah keone i spoke with you

1599
02:03:38,510 --> 02:03:43,550
interviewed you it was a pleasure to have a conversation about the unfortunate events you're

1600
02:03:43,550 --> 02:03:49,810
going through and um yeah i just wanted to jump on and pay my respect man you know i've spent many

1601
02:03:49,810 --> 02:03:55,610
years most of my adult life doing things the federal government doesn't like i think i crossed

1602
02:03:55,610 --> 02:04:01,270
the line you didn't. And so in some ways, you know, quite obviously what's taking place with

1603
02:04:01,270 --> 02:04:06,510
you is unjust. And yeah, I just have a tremendous level of respect and admiration for the way that

1604
02:04:06,510 --> 02:04:12,370
you've handled and conducted yourself. You've been in great spirits, like a little powerhouse,

1605
02:04:12,370 --> 02:04:18,150
just jumping from one podcast to the other. Articulate, you look good and healthy. I'd

1606
02:04:18,150 --> 02:04:24,270
probably be stressed, weathered away and skinny by this point if I were you. So yeah, man, I'm

1607
02:04:24,270 --> 02:04:30,110
I'm impressed. And I think the attack on privacy is a real issue. You can't really have solid

1608
02:04:30,110 --> 02:04:37,050
property rights without privacy rights. And, you know, it's unfortunate, but I do think,

1609
02:04:37,390 --> 02:04:42,990
you know, when I saw the clip from Trump, I was blown away. I could just absolutely shocked

1610
02:04:42,990 --> 02:04:49,470
how impactful all the people's efforts have been. And I have a very hopeful feeling about it.

1611
02:04:49,470 --> 02:04:55,490
in some ways it's a very telling moment for what the next 10, 20, 30 years look like.

1612
02:04:55,730 --> 02:05:01,070
I think Bitcoin is the biggest deal, arguably, in human history. It's obviously one of the most

1613
02:05:01,070 --> 02:05:06,910
important things happening in the world today. And what happens in your situation, I think,

1614
02:05:07,150 --> 02:05:12,130
is going to be very telling for what the future looks like for us. And yeah, man,

1615
02:05:12,190 --> 02:05:16,750
I commend the shit out of you for taking it like a G because you really have, man.

1616
02:05:16,750 --> 02:05:23,190
So much respect to you and everybody involved who's participating in this revolution.

1617
02:05:23,690 --> 02:05:31,550
When you were at your peak of growing marijuana, did you ever imagine 50 agents showing up at your house?

1618
02:05:32,570 --> 02:05:34,990
I had some close calls.

1619
02:05:35,230 --> 02:05:38,210
Yes, I did.

1620
02:05:38,350 --> 02:05:39,450
I had a close call.

1621
02:05:39,550 --> 02:05:45,690
I got roped into some sub licensing deal with a breeder of a strain that was out of state.

1622
02:05:45,690 --> 02:05:51,250
and I ended up face to face with what I am absolutely convinced at this point still to

1623
02:05:51,250 --> 02:05:52,930
this day was a DEA agent.

1624
02:05:53,250 --> 02:05:58,230
I wrapped up all my shit, took all my paperwork, put it in my took it to my attorney and I

1625
02:05:58,230 --> 02:05:59,190
spent a few days in hiding.

1626
02:05:59,370 --> 02:06:05,010
So I I've been scared at times of getting in trouble, but I've never been facing anything

1627
02:06:05,010 --> 02:06:05,550
like you.

1628
02:06:05,690 --> 02:06:06,350
You are Keone.

1629
02:06:06,550 --> 02:06:08,170
Not even close.

1630
02:06:08,570 --> 02:06:13,230
You play through your mind having to explain that to your mom, your dad, your big time

1631
02:06:13,230 --> 02:06:19,870
family and and yes even the cage maybe yeah i got pulled over driving to a high times cup

1632
02:06:19,870 --> 02:06:24,910
with uh an enormous amount of product the whole litany everything you could ever want like a

1633
02:06:24,910 --> 02:06:28,630
mobile dispensary in the middle of the night driving to southern california from humboldt

1634
02:06:28,630 --> 02:06:34,630
county and it was uh a powerful feeling you know getting pulled out of the vehicle thinking like

1635
02:06:34,630 --> 02:06:40,550
oh fuck dude all my houses all my shit's getting raided it turned out being okay but uh yeah i

1636
02:06:40,550 --> 02:06:44,970
I mean, I definitely definitely lived a sketchy life there for a little while.

1637
02:06:44,970 --> 02:06:49,690
But once again, it's it's nothing on the level that that we have going on here.

1638
02:06:49,770 --> 02:06:52,510
Not even close. This is a much bigger deal.

1639
02:06:53,310 --> 02:07:06,210
And what's crazy about it is that there's nothing, no criminal activity, not one communication from anyone bad with Gioni, not one piece of evidence, no hard evidence whatsoever in this case, period.

1640
02:07:06,210 --> 02:07:23,190
There just isn't. If you look at the details of the case, the plea is for conspiracy. It's something that was forced. What he's been to is a forced situation. And it really is disgusting, man, because you're talking about people like yourself that have done things that whatever.

1641
02:07:23,190 --> 02:07:29,190
And Keone is looking at five years with with no crime, with pure pure innocence, just building software.

1642
02:07:29,930 --> 02:07:34,190
It is it's to me, it's the worst case that I've ever seen in my lifetime.

1643
02:07:34,190 --> 02:07:37,710
And I believe like you do that Bitcoin is a once in a human history moment.

1644
02:07:38,010 --> 02:07:43,750
And I think that's why we see the aggressive nature that we see being taken on Keone.

1645
02:07:43,750 --> 02:08:00,450
So that's yeah. And and after, you know, listening to Keone's story a handful of times now, I suspect that the prosecuting team, the DOJ, FBI thought that they were going to be able to link him with helping somebody launder, launder their money.

1646
02:08:00,690 --> 02:08:07,390
And I think at this point they're saving face and they didn't even have that. They just made up some random. Go ahead, Keone.

1647
02:08:07,390 --> 02:08:29,150
I think you're actually right about that. I think because the indictment, every attorney that we spoke to, whether we hired them or didn't, all kind of said the same thing about the indictment. They said, this is really thin. This is a pretty flimsy case based off of this evidence. They must have something else. There must have more.

1648
02:08:29,150 --> 02:08:36,290
And so my theory is that they they they had enough to get an indictment.

1649
02:08:36,290 --> 02:08:38,750
And, you know, the old saying, you can indict a ham sandwich.

1650
02:08:38,990 --> 02:08:40,830
Indictments are incredibly easy to get.

1651
02:08:40,830 --> 02:08:44,450
Right. It's a prosecutor and a grand jury and a judge.

1652
02:08:44,450 --> 02:08:45,950
There's no defendant. There's no defense.

1653
02:08:45,950 --> 02:08:51,210
And they're putting their side of the story forward and they're going to get what they want most of the time.

1654
02:08:51,710 --> 02:08:58,570
And I think they were 100 percent confident that once they got this indictment, once they got the search warrant,

1655
02:08:58,570 --> 02:09:11,310
Once they raided my place, took every single one of my electronic devices, all of my notes, they were going to find their smoking gun that linked me to a specific criminal activity to some particular criminal.

1656
02:09:11,530 --> 02:09:14,730
And they had the smoking gun where we were discussing laundering the funds.

1657
02:09:15,010 --> 02:09:17,890
And they didn't find it because that never existed.

1658
02:09:18,470 --> 02:09:24,330
So in the superseding indictment, which for your listeners is the government just has another go at it.

1659
02:09:24,330 --> 02:09:28,190
They found some new evidence. So they rewrite the indictment and bring you a new one.

1660
02:09:28,570 --> 02:09:31,730
In the superseding indictment, they still didn't have anything like that.

1661
02:09:31,730 --> 02:09:37,750
They just upped the number of illicit activity that they say went through the software.

1662
02:09:38,090 --> 02:09:40,090
It went from like 100 million to 200 million.

1663
02:09:41,290 --> 02:09:46,950
And again, no smoking gun, no connection to actual crime.

1664
02:09:47,890 --> 02:09:56,610
Lots of innuendo, lots of public statements made on Twitter that they can twist and turn into making intent.

1665
02:09:56,610 --> 02:10:02,630
but nothing, no meat and potatoes. And I think you're absolutely right. I think the dropping of

1666
02:10:02,630 --> 02:10:09,990
the charge was to save face. And I think it's pretty likely that we would have had at trial

1667
02:10:09,990 --> 02:10:18,290
a similar outcome to what Roman Storm had, which was a hung jury on money laundering and a conviction

1668
02:10:18,290 --> 02:10:23,810
on money transmission, even though it's so absurd because we had the FinCEN guidance, we had all of

1669
02:10:23,810 --> 02:10:28,950
the things on our side, people don't realize that the judge is in so much control of what the jury

1670
02:10:28,950 --> 02:10:34,650
is going to hear. The judge decides whether the jury hears about FinCEN at all. The judge decides

1671
02:10:34,650 --> 02:10:42,890
whether the jury hears that we have legal counsel that gave us advice about FinCEN. So ultimately,

1672
02:10:43,050 --> 02:10:47,230
I think we did the right thing taking the deal. And everyone who's been in this situation,

1673
02:10:47,230 --> 02:10:51,790
who has fought the Department of Justice, I mean, everyone I spoke to said, you did the right thing

1674
02:10:51,790 --> 02:10:57,630
taking the deal, they were going to railroad you. They were going to put you away for 25 years.

1675
02:10:58,010 --> 02:11:03,870
No question. So yeah, I think you're right. I think that they really thought they were going

1676
02:11:03,870 --> 02:11:10,450
to find that smoking gun because in their heads, there was no other possibility than that we were

1677
02:11:10,450 --> 02:11:16,830
guilty. They knew it in their core that we were money launderers. And when they didn't find that

1678
02:11:16,830 --> 02:11:19,230
that evidence, I think it embarrassed them.

1679
02:11:19,290 --> 02:11:34,052
Yeah I think that half the reason they put on such a show when they rated you And if they couldn convict you then what what message does that send to the marketplace Within no time there would be tons of coin mixers tons of privacy

1680
02:11:34,052 --> 02:11:39,372
tech that goes against obviously everything that this establishment is fighting against.

1681
02:11:39,372 --> 02:11:45,732
So yeah, it's unfortunate you've been caught in the crosshairs, but I have a pretty hopeful

1682
02:11:45,732 --> 02:11:51,232
feeling about it. Like I said, I was shocked to see Trump this morning on Twitter talking

1683
02:11:51,232 --> 02:11:56,352
about your case and so he's in a in an interesting position he doesn't need to get re-elected as

1684
02:11:56,352 --> 02:12:01,552
president but he's going to disappoint a lot of the libertarian in the bitcoin community if he

1685
02:12:01,552 --> 02:12:07,252
doesn't do something here and the fact that he pardoned ross albrick which i think is in some

1686
02:12:07,252 --> 02:12:12,412
ways is a harder pill for a normie to swallow than you getting pardoned i think it's a much

1687
02:12:12,412 --> 02:12:17,252
clear easier thing for somebody who doesn't understand what's happening to accept like hey

1688
02:12:17,252 --> 02:12:22,932
this guy made a wallet he's being pardoned so i'm hopeful there's i think there's a lot of

1689
02:12:22,932 --> 02:12:28,812
positive uh events that have taken place over there i just want to ask the group quickly on

1690
02:12:28,812 --> 02:12:33,472
that note too maybe brandon parker you have some thoughts on this as well in terms of keeping the

1691
02:12:33,472 --> 02:12:37,752
pressure on trump what do you guys think is like the best tactic for actually making sure that this

1692
02:12:37,752 --> 02:12:42,232
stays on his radar it stays in front of him that we actually do our best to to push it forward how

1693
02:12:42,232 --> 02:12:44,512
do we how do we as Bitcoiners in the community influence them?

1694
02:12:45,412 --> 02:12:53,732
I mean, my view or Angela McArdle came to the awesome bit devs last month or maybe awesome

1695
02:12:53,732 --> 02:12:54,232
Bitcoin club.

1696
02:12:54,712 --> 02:13:02,332
And what she said was and I know she was on here earlier, but to continue to put the pressure

1697
02:13:02,332 --> 02:13:07,052
on because of the midterms that like Trump's not on the ballot.

1698
02:13:07,052 --> 02:13:17,612
But if the Republicans lose the House or Senate and the House is more problematic, then that creates problems for him.

1699
02:13:18,172 --> 02:13:26,492
And if he doesn't have the Bitcoiner voting block, then in her words, they're going to get destroyed at the ballot box.

1700
02:13:26,492 --> 02:13:36,092
So even though he's not on the ballot, like keeping the pressure on like if Bitcoiner don't turn out to support them, then they'll lose.

1701
02:13:36,092 --> 02:13:43,432
that close. And so I think that that message resonated to me. And I think that there's

1702
02:13:43,432 --> 02:13:49,812
rifle shots of everyone that has relationships to lean on those relationships. But then in terms of

1703
02:13:49,812 --> 02:13:54,692
public pressure, there's a lot riding on the midterms for Trump, even though he's not on the

1704
02:13:54,692 --> 02:14:01,752
ballot. I think this might be actually a good opportunity, Keone, for you to talk for a minute

1705
02:14:01,752 --> 02:14:08,872
about maybe what you think we can do or how we can interact as, you know, let's assume

1706
02:14:08,872 --> 02:14:11,212
that you don't get the part in and you go in on Friday.

1707
02:14:11,572 --> 02:14:16,172
Because I know you and I have talked about some things, but this is your last public

1708
02:14:16,172 --> 02:14:19,452
appearance if you were to go in.

1709
02:14:20,092 --> 02:14:23,352
And so I think one of the hardest things, the way, because I've been, believe me, man,

1710
02:14:23,452 --> 02:14:24,772
I'm going through this in my head.

1711
02:14:25,232 --> 02:14:30,332
And I'm like, if you go in on Friday, you know, it's a big, it hurts because you're

1712
02:14:30,332 --> 02:14:31,272
amazing, right?

1713
02:14:31,272 --> 02:14:34,332
Like you're, you're, you're the tip of the spear of this, this whole thing.

1714
02:14:34,392 --> 02:14:38,112
You are, this is your story and you're such a good speaker and you're, you know, you're

1715
02:14:38,112 --> 02:14:39,192
just, you're tremendous.

1716
02:14:39,192 --> 02:14:41,872
And so once you're, once you're gone, you're gone.

1717
02:14:41,872 --> 02:14:47,832
And then it's just up to us to try to fight for you, you know, in your absence.

1718
02:14:48,732 --> 02:14:50,512
So is there anything you want to talk about?

1719
02:14:50,592 --> 02:14:55,032
I don't want to say anything for you, but, you know, just in terms of keeping in touch,

1720
02:14:55,312 --> 02:15:01,152
you know, I think that, I think that for us guys, it's, it's about like, you know,

1721
02:15:01,152 --> 02:15:03,072
We just don't, we don't stop, right?

1722
02:15:03,172 --> 02:15:05,272
Like Trump's going to do what he does.

1723
02:15:06,372 --> 02:15:08,372
It's going to be, do we stop or not?

1724
02:15:08,552 --> 02:15:10,072
Do we stop talking about it or not?

1725
02:15:10,212 --> 02:15:14,252
So that's, so Keone, I don't know if you have any words about that as your last public appearance,

1726
02:15:14,252 --> 02:15:21,292
but just thinking about how we can continue to, like, I don't want you to feel like you're,

1727
02:15:21,472 --> 02:15:23,272
I think one of the, here, I'll put it this way.

1728
02:15:24,012 --> 02:15:25,492
Ross came into our space.

1729
02:15:25,492 --> 02:15:30,032
remember this was the big one of the biggest moments for me of this whole week was ross came

1730
02:15:30,032 --> 02:15:37,052
into an x space with us and he started talking to keone very just matter of factly you know like

1731
02:15:37,052 --> 02:15:42,052
how are you feeling like are you prepared to go in like do you need anything and i know keone you've

1732
02:15:42,052 --> 02:15:46,752
done a lot of prep um but a couple things ross said that have stuck with me this whole week have

1733
02:15:46,752 --> 02:15:52,432
been you know signing the petition because that matters and then letters meaning sending

1734
02:15:52,432 --> 02:15:57,592
communication to Keone while he's in there because the biggest thing that they are trying to do,

1735
02:15:57,592 --> 02:16:02,992
even when the pretrial happens, it's isolation. That's one of the biggest weapons that they use

1736
02:16:02,992 --> 02:16:08,412
is isolation to try to make someone go away. They use distraction. What's the next headline?

1737
02:16:08,652 --> 02:16:13,252
What's the next news story? Everybody forget about Keone. And that I think is a big deal here.

1738
02:16:13,852 --> 02:16:19,492
Hopefully, look, that's why I think this next until Friday is such a big deal. Like continue

1739
02:16:19,492 --> 02:16:23,952
to put your foot down on the gas, everybody. This is important. This is the moment when we get to

1740
02:16:23,952 --> 02:16:28,892
maybe hopefully avoid all of this, right? That would be such a blessing if we can just say, cool,

1741
02:16:28,892 --> 02:16:37,752
we did it. But we also have to be prepared to continue to just work through it for the worst

1742
02:16:37,752 --> 02:16:44,692
case scenario, five years, right? So Keone, any thoughts on that front? Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

1743
02:16:44,692 --> 02:16:52,292
if the pardon doesn't happen if i report and i'm i'm in in federal prison i think what um what shannon

1744
02:16:52,292 --> 02:16:57,732
was saying earlier keeping the keeping the message alive on on socials is going to be important it's

1745
02:16:57,732 --> 02:17:05,732
going to be tough because you know we feel like we didn't win in getting the pardon uh but keeping

1746
02:17:05,732 --> 02:17:16,212
that pressure uh up and speaking about it um keeps me and bill alive so to speak i mean i i spoke to

1747
02:17:16,212 --> 02:17:22,132
ross privately after that call and one of the things he he kind of said he said a lot and i'm

1748
02:17:22,132 --> 02:17:26,932
only i'm not going to say everything he's told me but one thing he he said that stuck with me is

1749
02:17:26,932 --> 02:17:35,632
is that whether you go you're going to prison for life like he did or for five years like I am

1750
02:17:35,632 --> 02:17:45,652
in a way you die on the outside because you're not there you're gone you're now in the prison system

1751
02:17:45,652 --> 02:17:52,552
and they take that away from you they take that life away from you and if you're out there

1752
02:17:52,552 --> 02:17:58,112
speaking on my behalf, because I won't be able to speak for myself to the same degree,

1753
02:17:58,672 --> 02:18:07,892
you keep the person alive. And I think, and their thoughts alive. And I think that's

1754
02:18:07,892 --> 02:18:16,152
an important thing. And I hope that people do that. To communicate with me, for the second part

1755
02:18:16,152 --> 02:18:21,452
of your question, so communication will happen one of two ways. I will at some point,

1756
02:18:21,452 --> 02:18:29,332
write to my wife in my own words what I would like her to post on my behalf. And she will post

1757
02:18:29,332 --> 02:18:35,112
that on my behalf to my ex profile. So follow me there if you want to hear what I have to say.

1758
02:18:36,072 --> 02:18:41,852
She won't be writing it. It will be me writing it. And it will be something that I want to

1759
02:18:41,852 --> 02:18:48,332
communicate publicly. That's communication from me to you. And if you want to communicate with me,

1760
02:18:48,332 --> 02:18:56,112
possible, like Jesse said, Ross mentioned that letters are so important while you're inside

1761
02:18:56,112 --> 02:19:02,532
because it's boring and lonely in there. One thing that every single person who's been to

1762
02:19:02,532 --> 02:19:09,852
federal prison has told me is the hardest part is the boredom. You're just bored. So getting letters

1763
02:19:09,852 --> 02:19:17,852
and having this outside connection is something that is important. So we'll put the address on

1764
02:19:17,852 --> 02:19:24,072
billandkeone.org for both me and Bill, if you want to write us letters. And speaking for myself,

1765
02:19:24,192 --> 02:19:29,392
I will write you back. It might take a while because there's a limit to how many letters you

1766
02:19:29,392 --> 02:19:36,132
can send out at any given time and buy stamps, how many stamps you can buy. But I will respond

1767
02:19:36,132 --> 02:19:43,452
to the letters I receive. And I think that's a great way to communicate and really the only way

1768
02:19:43,452 --> 02:19:49,172
to communicate with me two-way fashion other than me broadcasting out through my wife.

1769
02:19:50,172 --> 02:19:53,532
If I may, guys, I also just looked up too, if we don't get that information right away. So it looks

1770
02:19:53,532 --> 02:19:59,312
like we can search the Bureau of Prisons website, so BOP.gov, to find inmate and their location.

1771
02:19:59,672 --> 02:20:03,552
And then you can search for that specific facility and the inmate mail policy to figure out what the

1772
02:20:03,552 --> 02:20:07,052
restrictions and rules are in terms of setting letters. And the other thing I just want to quickly

1773
02:20:07,052 --> 02:20:12,312
point out for everybody here right now is if you go to house.gov slash representatives, it has every

1774
02:20:12,312 --> 02:20:15,972
single representative you can find their email and their phone number so maybe that's something

1775
02:20:15,972 --> 02:20:21,972
to get cracking on later this week when you have a spare 20 minutes I also thanks Nathan I also

1776
02:20:21,972 --> 02:20:32,052
want to say publicly that you know Keone and I so I'll be I will be able to communicate with Keone

1777
02:20:32,052 --> 02:20:37,452
through email so we're gonna set up set that up through the through the system through the through

1778
02:20:37,452 --> 02:20:42,572
jail system so that i'm able to do that and so you know there'll be communication both through

1779
02:20:43,212 --> 02:20:50,972
his twitter his ex you know his wife uh i'll be connected with his wife um and so you know

1780
02:20:51,612 --> 02:20:57,132
my hope is that we can like you said keone keone keep you alive on the outside right and i think

1781
02:20:57,132 --> 02:21:03,052
that's going to feel really good for you on the inside knowing that you're being kept alive on

1782
02:21:03,052 --> 02:21:08,152
on the outside. I, you know, cause it's, this is a psychological thing more than anything else

1783
02:21:08,152 --> 02:21:14,032
in my estimation. And so, um, just so everybody knows we will have those communication lines.

1784
02:21:14,032 --> 02:21:18,612
It may not be, it's actually not going to be fast for sure. It'll be slow. That's a guarantee

1785
02:21:18,612 --> 02:21:25,312
because it will be clunky going through the jail system. But I think it's going to be a good

1786
02:21:25,312 --> 02:21:31,192
strategy for us, Keone, and I hope that it helps. And I'm really glad, uh, I couldn't be more happy,

1787
02:21:31,192 --> 02:21:46,894
to know that you talking to Ross and that you got that kind of support from Ross and and Lynn so yeah day one is still day one we we gotta keep him out of jail um yeah I don want to turn

1788
02:21:46,894 --> 02:21:52,474
this a little bit into a party before we roll out but you know FinCEN in both 2013 and again in 2019

1789
02:21:52,474 --> 02:21:56,494
explicitly stated that you must take custody of Bitcoin through your money transmitting business

1790
02:21:56,494 --> 02:21:59,174
that non-custodial software did not count.

1791
02:22:00,214 --> 02:22:04,394
DOJ Blanche memo in 20.5 again reiterates this fact,

1792
02:22:04,494 --> 02:22:06,674
and prosecutors asked Vincent specifically

1793
02:22:06,674 --> 02:22:08,554
if Samurai was doing something illegal.

1794
02:22:09,934 --> 02:22:12,514
And when the defense tried to bring these facts to light,

1795
02:22:12,574 --> 02:22:13,994
they squished out the judge on the case.

1796
02:22:15,814 --> 02:22:16,294
Horrendous.

1797
02:22:16,354 --> 02:22:17,334
The system is broken.

1798
02:22:19,554 --> 02:22:21,194
I'm going to play the jingle,

1799
02:22:21,494 --> 02:22:23,714
Christmas jingle from Shannon Fitzgerald,

1800
02:22:24,294 --> 02:22:26,374
and then we'll roll out with a little more of a party vibe.

1801
02:22:26,494 --> 02:22:28,474
Hold on, I want to add something first real quick.

1802
02:22:28,594 --> 02:22:40,474
As far as you dine on the outside, I would have to assume that if you're not pardoned by Friday and you step foot into a jail cell, this movement is going to grow by orders of magnitude.

1803
02:22:40,474 --> 02:22:45,094
A lot of people are sitting on the sidelines and I think that will change.

1804
02:22:45,614 --> 02:22:52,554
So I would say that my assumption is that you're going to have more support if you actually step into a jail cell.

1805
02:22:52,554 --> 02:22:54,254
people are not going to forget about you.

1806
02:22:54,574 --> 02:22:55,854
Especially with people like

1807
02:22:55,854 --> 02:22:58,654
Jesse and Puncher. I mean, go down the list

1808
02:22:58,654 --> 02:23:00,474
of all these incredible people.

1809
02:23:00,474 --> 02:23:00,874
So,

1810
02:23:01,074 --> 02:23:04,534
yeah. You're not going to be forgotten.

1811
02:23:05,494 --> 02:23:06,574
Appreciate that, guys.

1812
02:23:06,874 --> 02:23:07,534
Cheers to that.

1813
02:23:08,254 --> 02:23:10,414
Cheers. Let's get this party

1814
02:23:10,414 --> 02:23:10,774
going.

1815
02:23:12,934 --> 02:23:14,554
Shannon Fitzgerald wrote a

1816
02:23:14,554 --> 02:23:14,914
jingle.

1817
02:23:16,234 --> 02:23:16,714
Oh, yeah.

1818
02:23:18,074 --> 02:23:19,474
We're going to play that now.

1819
02:23:19,874 --> 02:23:22,414
I'm laughing because she specifically told

1820
02:23:22,414 --> 02:23:30,354
you not to credit her, which is hilarious. This was the AI. This was written by my friend.

1821
02:23:30,634 --> 02:23:35,894
This was by the robot. All right. Let me bring that up.

1822
02:23:43,134 --> 02:23:49,234
All right. It's going to take me a minute. I can create filler or anybody can, but I guess

1823
02:23:49,234 --> 02:23:54,514
what's on the top of my mind while you're bringing something up that someone created is just again

1824
02:23:54,514 --> 02:24:00,674
the uh organic kind of contributions oh here we go the organic contributions that have come out of

1825
02:24:00,674 --> 02:24:04,434
this you know with it's just like people's skill sets whatever they do you know they're like hey

1826
02:24:04,434 --> 02:24:10,754
i did this i did this this is another example of that but uh cedric are you ready i'm just yeah

1827
02:24:10,754 --> 02:24:14,274
i'm ready now here's to everybody who signed the petition today

1828
02:24:19,234 --> 02:24:25,414
They wrote open source software for people doing right.

1829
02:24:25,854 --> 02:24:30,694
But the DUJ came knocking and said this tool's a crime.

1830
02:24:31,514 --> 02:24:33,874
Oh, pardon the samurai.

1831
02:24:34,694 --> 02:24:37,194
Oh, didn't do wrong, that's true.

1832
02:24:37,794 --> 02:24:40,594
Privacy is not a crime.

1833
02:24:40,994 --> 02:24:44,014
And code is speech for me and you.

1834
02:24:44,014 --> 02:24:46,294
Pardon the samurai.

1835
02:24:46,294 --> 02:24:49,914
Let innovation stay

1836
02:24:49,914 --> 02:24:53,494
Don't jail the folks who build the tools

1837
02:24:53,494 --> 02:24:56,814
Just because bad guys play

1838
02:24:56,814 --> 02:24:59,834
They blame the builders of the road

1839
02:24:59,834 --> 02:25:02,214
For how the cars were driven

1840
02:25:02,214 --> 02:25:06,134
That's not how justice works at all

1841
02:25:06,134 --> 02:25:09,414
Or the rights we've all been given

1842
02:25:09,414 --> 02:25:14,354
Oh, pardon the samurai

1843
02:25:14,354 --> 02:25:18,074
They didn't do wrong, that's true

1844
02:25:18,074 --> 02:25:21,294
Privacy is not a crime

1845
02:25:21,294 --> 02:25:24,794
And code is speech for me and you

1846
02:25:24,794 --> 02:25:26,994
Pardon the samurai

1847
02:25:26,994 --> 02:25:30,674
Let freedom ring and stay

1848
02:25:30,674 --> 02:25:35,294
Protect our rights, protect our code this Christmas

1849
02:25:35,294 --> 02:25:38,634
Do it the right way

1850
02:25:44,354 --> 02:25:47,994
I love it.

1851
02:25:48,914 --> 02:25:51,034
Well, we have a new jam, a new winter jam.

1852
02:25:52,174 --> 02:25:55,614
We'll be playing that for the next 10 days, at least for the holidays.

1853
02:25:55,874 --> 02:25:58,614
But let's just keep making noise.

1854
02:25:58,994 --> 02:25:59,514
Yeah, dude.

1855
02:25:59,994 --> 02:26:01,174
And we have until Friday.

1856
02:26:02,054 --> 02:26:03,414
This is on Trump's plate.

1857
02:26:03,634 --> 02:26:05,834
I'm cautiously optimistic.

1858
02:26:07,274 --> 02:26:11,714
And it will get louder if you have to go in on Friday.

1859
02:26:11,714 --> 02:26:14,014
But that's all we can do.

1860
02:26:14,014 --> 02:26:19,074
I mean, there's nothing really more important, I think, in Bitcoin than this right now.

1861
02:26:20,654 --> 02:26:25,794
You know, maybe the silver lining is it's, you know, it's not the gains, it's the friends we make along the way.

1862
02:26:26,814 --> 02:26:27,294
Amen.

1863
02:26:27,874 --> 02:26:28,134
Yeah.

1864
02:26:29,794 --> 02:26:37,614
And I think one of the things that I have my good old trustee declaration and constitution, pocket constitution sitting here.

1865
02:26:37,614 --> 02:26:45,234
So for the many Americans, but also Canadians, Nathan, my favorite line is the end of the declaration.

1866
02:26:45,994 --> 02:26:51,834
And in Bitcoiners, I think this is maybe some of the last vestiges of the American Revolution.

1867
02:26:51,974 --> 02:26:52,894
Let's just call it what it is.

1868
02:26:53,014 --> 02:26:59,074
And the last line is, and for the support of this declaration with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence,

1869
02:26:59,414 --> 02:27:03,814
we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.

1870
02:27:04,334 --> 02:27:06,754
And that's really all there is at the end of the day.

1871
02:27:06,754 --> 02:27:08,614
because we're all going to be six feet under.

1872
02:27:09,314 --> 02:27:10,794
No one's getting out alive.

1873
02:27:11,434 --> 02:27:13,614
So what's the marker we're leaving

1874
02:27:13,614 --> 02:27:15,314
and what are we here for at the end of the day?

1875
02:27:15,874 --> 02:27:17,474
So just appreciate you, Keone,

1876
02:27:17,654 --> 02:27:18,374
everything you're doing.

1877
02:27:19,654 --> 02:27:20,014
Godspeed.

1878
02:27:20,594 --> 02:27:22,414
Let's get Keone out of here alive.

1879
02:27:24,994 --> 02:27:25,994
Thank you, fellas.

1880
02:27:26,174 --> 02:27:27,354
This has been tremendous.

1881
02:27:28,054 --> 02:27:30,334
Keone, we wish you the best of luck

1882
02:27:30,334 --> 02:27:32,094
and Godspeed.

1883
02:27:32,494 --> 02:27:34,374
And anything we could do to help, let us know.

1884
02:27:35,214 --> 02:27:36,494
It's good to know that you'll be communicating

1885
02:27:36,494 --> 02:27:37,814
with us through whatever

1886
02:27:37,814 --> 02:27:39,494
channels you can.

1887
02:27:40,214 --> 02:27:42,534
We'll be looking to hear from you. We're just going to make as much noise

1888
02:27:42,534 --> 02:27:43,094
as we can.

1889
02:27:44,254 --> 02:27:45,054
That's what we do.

1890
02:27:46,174 --> 02:27:48,294
You're an inspiration to all the

1891
02:27:48,294 --> 02:27:49,954
coiners and everybody

1892
02:27:49,954 --> 02:27:52,454
that came on this channel tonight and helped

1893
02:27:52,454 --> 02:27:54,014
support him, we appreciate you greatly.

1894
02:27:54,814 --> 02:27:54,954
Yeah.

1895
02:27:55,554 --> 02:27:58,074
I definitely appreciate it.

1896
02:27:58,474 --> 02:28:00,514
I wanted to, like I

1897
02:28:00,514 --> 02:28:02,514
said right at the beginning, let's not make this a somber

1898
02:28:02,514 --> 02:28:04,614
affair. Let's treat this

1899
02:28:04,614 --> 02:28:06,714
as a going away party.

1900
02:28:07,634 --> 02:28:09,374
And we did, I think.

1901
02:28:09,454 --> 02:28:10,614
And we had a lot of people,

1902
02:28:11,174 --> 02:28:13,454
some people I'm meeting for the first time,

1903
02:28:13,494 --> 02:28:17,194
like Parker, like Larry, like Bob.

1904
02:28:17,294 --> 02:28:17,774
I've never met.

1905
02:28:17,894 --> 02:28:20,214
I know about these people, of course, who doesn't,

1906
02:28:20,314 --> 02:28:21,154
but I've never met them.

1907
02:28:21,154 --> 02:28:23,214
So I was happy to finally meet

1908
02:28:23,214 --> 02:28:26,394
and have great discussion.

1909
02:28:26,634 --> 02:28:28,934
So yeah, thank you for putting this together.

1910
02:28:29,794 --> 02:28:31,834
I'm sure logistically, it was kind of a challenge

1911
02:28:31,834 --> 02:28:34,734
getting this many people into a room.

1912
02:28:35,694 --> 02:28:37,614
But I think it was well worth it.

1913
02:28:37,754 --> 02:28:41,954
And I think the viewers and all the views,

1914
02:28:41,994 --> 02:28:43,494
it looks like there's a lot of views on this thing,

1915
02:28:43,894 --> 02:28:46,294
I think is saying something, right?

1916
02:28:46,314 --> 02:28:47,614
People are interested in this.

1917
02:28:47,674 --> 02:28:48,154
They want to hear.

1918
02:28:48,514 --> 02:28:50,334
They want to keep this alive.

1919
02:28:50,714 --> 02:28:52,834
And from what everyone has said,

1920
02:28:52,894 --> 02:28:54,474
and I've been watching, I've been reading the comments,

1921
02:28:55,034 --> 02:28:56,274
they're going to keep it alive.

1922
02:28:56,314 --> 02:28:58,274
And that's comforting to know.

1923
02:28:58,914 --> 02:29:00,054
So thanks again.

1924
02:29:00,054 --> 02:29:04,674
yeah i mean the only challenge was trying to fit everyone in who wants to support you

1925
02:29:04,674 --> 02:29:13,174
and make as much noise as possible so um we appreciate you and um we're here for you uh

1926
02:29:13,174 --> 02:29:18,874
this is just the beginning i'm very optimistic but you know this this you know you're you're in

1927
02:29:18,874 --> 02:29:24,534
the line of fire for all of us so we're here for you uh i'll leave it you know do you have any

1928
02:29:24,534 --> 02:29:33,014
parting words or you know jess parker stacks nate i'll just say real i'll just say real quick um

1929
02:29:33,014 --> 02:29:39,914
you know keone's exhausted okay he's put in so much effort to do this this is his last public

1930
02:29:39,914 --> 02:29:44,694
appearance he doesn't he's not supposed to go until friday we've heard from the president already

1931
02:29:44,694 --> 02:29:51,934
so we have between now and friday okay so let's continue to go hard um this guy deserves some

1932
02:29:51,934 --> 02:29:56,694
time with his family. Okay. He's going to be his family tomorrow. His Christmas is basically tomorrow

1933
02:29:56,694 --> 02:30:01,594
in case he has to go in. So he's going to be with his loved ones. So just, you know, when you get

1934
02:30:01,594 --> 02:30:06,914
off this call or when you stop listening to this, you know, go look at your, your loved one that's

1935
02:30:06,914 --> 02:30:11,614
next to you or your pet or your family member or your friend. And just think about it. Think about

1936
02:30:11,614 --> 02:30:16,134
if you couldn't be with that person, if you're about to go behind, you know, behind bars for,

1937
02:30:16,134 --> 02:30:23,014
for no reason um so let's let's do everything we can guys too because i think we like uh cedric i'm

1938
02:30:23,014 --> 02:30:29,654
i'm optimistic i was so blown away uh you know by the by the mention from the president of the

1939
02:30:29,654 --> 02:30:35,174
united states i i what was it keoni i woke up in the morning and i said hey the president is saying

1940
02:30:35,174 --> 02:30:41,094
your name that's what i that's what i that's what i texted to keoni so let's keep it up guys i mean

1941
02:30:41,094 --> 02:30:46,294
i'm so proud of the of the bitcoin coalition i'm so proud of everybody for stepping up for speaking

1942
02:30:46,294 --> 02:30:52,534
up there's so many unsung heroes and uh keone i love you buddy and um we're we're here we're

1943
02:30:52,534 --> 02:30:58,054
we're working right beside you we're going to be beside you the whole time okay yeah i just want to

1944
02:30:58,054 --> 02:31:01,654
i just want to have one more thing and i know that you guys i know that everybody hanging out here

1945
02:31:01,654 --> 02:31:04,774
and everybody who's come through has had the same thing too the amount of times that i've had people

1946
02:31:04,774 --> 02:31:09,574
ask me how they can work in bitcoin how they can support bitcoin people that they find it they want

1947
02:31:09,574 --> 02:31:13,174
to get involved well here's your chance that song was great you can make songs you can make memes

1948
02:31:13,174 --> 02:31:16,854
you could write letters you could take the videos and clip them you could ai translate them into a

1949
02:31:16,854 --> 02:31:20,534
different letter this is the perfect every opportunity for everybody and i know we've all

1950
02:31:20,534 --> 02:31:24,374
had a ton of them ask us that want to work want to contribute want to do something in bitcoin but

1951
02:31:24,374 --> 02:31:28,614
don't have the skills to code but want to do something this is your something this is that

1952
02:31:28,614 --> 02:31:39,414
moment find something and do it amen right on well thank you fellas godspeed keone cheers cheers

1953
02:31:39,574 --> 02:31:41,074
Happy holidays.

1954
02:31:42,814 --> 02:31:43,774
Thanks, boys.

1955
02:31:44,134 --> 02:31:44,714
Thanks, guys.