1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,800
So ultimately, we determined that the only true solution, true solution to a wrench attack is insurance.

2
00:00:07,060 --> 00:00:14,740
Because we've definitely had customers say that they have opted to use either multi-institutional custody or a sole custodian.

3
00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:17,560
And they're like, look, I know there's counterparty risk.

4
00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,780
I just don't want the kidnapping risk in my home.

5
00:00:21,020 --> 00:00:22,040
Like, I don't want it there.

6
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,900
And the problem with that is that it doesn't matter, right?

7
00:00:24,900 --> 00:00:30,120
Because if they if they came knowing that you have Bitcoin and you're like, I have zero keys, I can do nothing.

8
00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,340
They're like, you can make a phone call, though.

9
00:00:33,020 --> 00:00:38,440
Right. You can call your custodian and be like, boys, there's a gun to my head right now.

10
00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,360
I need you to send my Bitcoin right now or they're going to shoot me.

11
00:00:41,660 --> 00:00:43,920
And they're going to be like, oh, we have we have procedures.

12
00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,440
And you're like, no, for real. You have my permission.

13
00:00:46,900 --> 00:00:49,660
They are going to shoot me. Send the Bitcoin. Right.

14
00:00:50,020 --> 00:00:51,500
They're going to send the Bitcoin. Right.

15
00:00:51,500 --> 00:01:02,840
So like the insurance needs to be there, whether whomever, like if we're talking wrench attacks, like this is this is a case where old school insurance serves a very important purpose.

16
00:01:09,960 --> 00:01:12,660
Greetings and salutations, my fellow clubs.

17
00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,700
My name is Walker and this is the Bitcoin podcast.

18
00:01:15,700 --> 00:01:20,020
Bitcoin continues to create new blocks every 10 minutes

19
00:01:20,020 --> 00:01:23,120
and the value of 1 Bitcoin is still 1 Bitcoin

20
00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:28,460
If you are listening to this right now, remember, you are still growing

21
00:01:28,460 --> 00:01:32,300
Find me on Noster at Primal.net slash Walker

22
00:01:32,300 --> 00:01:35,820
and this podcast at Primal.net slash Titcoin

23
00:01:35,820 --> 00:01:39,760
On X, YouTube, and Rumble, just search at Walker America

24
00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:44,620
and find this podcast on X and Instagram at Titcoin Podcast

25
00:01:44,620 --> 00:01:52,380
Head to the show notes for sponsor links, head to substack.com slash atwalkeramerica to get episodes emailed to you.

26
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,300
And head to bitcoinpodcast.net for everything else.

27
00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,180
Without further ado, let's get into this Bitcoin talk.

28
00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:12,980
I'm always really pleasantly surprised when stuff on Noster works like really flawlessly.

29
00:02:12,980 --> 00:02:25,620
Like it's just, it's just great. You know, just a bunch of open source devs hacking stuff together. And like, it just, it, it works like basically as well as stuff with, or, you know, companies with massive budgets behind them. So that's just, I find that beautiful.

30
00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:27,980
What do you use as your go-to? I use Primal.

31
00:02:27,980 --> 00:02:34,960
i use uh i use both uh primal and damas on like a daily basis so i'll always give a shout out to

32
00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:41,580
will kassarin because he is he's the the creator of damas they've they were like the first client

33
00:02:41,580 --> 00:02:49,820
that i used back in early december 2022 okay and like the the fact that like their purple uh that

34
00:02:49,820 --> 00:02:54,440
their logo was purple is literally the reason that i like designed the or i didn't design had

35
00:02:54,440 --> 00:03:02,520
AI design an ostrich that was purple based on a bot, a chat GPT bot that Will wrote, which gave me

36
00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,120
a terrible joke about, you know, what do you call a nosy ostrich, an ostrich? I was like, well,

37
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:13,960
that'd be a cool logo for this. And it's funny. So I use Primal, Domus, both of them daily.

38
00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:21,600
I use Zap.Stream for this particular streaming, which is nice. And I've used honestly like so

39
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:27,100
many different clients now, but that's kind of the beautiful thing is like, there is always a,

40
00:03:27,980 --> 00:03:33,040
or at least if there isn't, there will be a purpose built client for whatever your need is.

41
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,840
And I think that micro app versus like super app dynamic is actually quite interesting because

42
00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:42,200
you've got Musk who like, he wants the super app. We know he's going towards payments too.

43
00:03:43,620 --> 00:03:49,120
It's convenient, but it's also like, boy, that's a, that's a big old honeypot.

44
00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:57,900
of information. Yeah, I gotcha. Yeah. But okay, we are now live. We're good to go. Becca,

45
00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,920
welcome. Great to great to see you wish it was in the flesh like the last couple of times,

46
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,460
but this will have to do for now. Well, thanks for having me on. Yeah, I also wish it was in

47
00:04:06,460 --> 00:04:12,420
the flesh, but happy to be on for the first time. Yeah, it's, it's, it's long overdue, I think. And

48
00:04:12,420 --> 00:04:18,560
I think people have been following what you all have been building an anchor watch quite closely

49
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:24,440
and with anticipation because it's something that we all feel as we were just talking before this,

50
00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:30,440
like whether you're a pleb or you're a big old whale, people are worried about losing their

51
00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:37,300
Bitcoin or whether that be through a $5 wrench or through screwing something up or whatever it is.

52
00:04:37,740 --> 00:04:41,820
So this whole idea of Bitcoin insurance, when I heard about it through you guys, I was like,

53
00:04:41,820 --> 00:04:48,320
wow, that's, that's pretty, it's pretty neat. So I'm, I'm curious, like, if you can just kind of

54
00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:53,020
like, start off first of all, how did, like, I've heard a little bit of your story. You did a great

55
00:04:53,020 --> 00:04:58,560
episode with Danny Knowles. Shout out to Danny. Uh, gave a, a wonderful background of like your

56
00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:03,200
time on clubhouse and everything else and your past experience. So I, you know, I don't, uh,

57
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:07,900
I'll always recommend people go check out Danny's show as well, but like, maybe you can give kind of

58
00:05:07,900 --> 00:05:13,360
the highlight reel of like, how did you actually get here to be all of a sudden running this

59
00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:20,460
Bitcoin insurance business, which is like something that just didn't exist a short time ago and now is

60
00:05:20,460 --> 00:05:25,400
something that very much exists and is growing what seems to be quite rapidly.

61
00:05:25,940 --> 00:05:33,120
Yeah. Well, here, I'll skip the Clubhouse history. I mean, we met on Clubhouse, Rob and I met on

62
00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:40,160
which is awesome. And a lot of our early investors were Clubhouse. The idea discussing the need for

63
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:45,500
insurance was on Clubhouse. But let's actually go to the idea and then kind of how it's morphed and

64
00:05:45,500 --> 00:05:51,380
grown since then. So that original conversation and the impetus for starting Anchor Watch was this

65
00:05:51,380 --> 00:05:58,020
concept of insured self-custody. Like, okay, there's single SIG. That's not safe enough,

66
00:05:58,020 --> 00:06:04,240
right? There's multisig. Okay, that's a lot better. That mitigates a lot of risks. But the

67
00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:09,980
risks are still there. There's still some problems. I mean, inheritance is definitely still a problem.

68
00:06:11,060 --> 00:06:17,360
And you should be able to get insurance on that. Like we, every other asset class has insurance,

69
00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:22,280
you should be able to hold your Bitcoin, have your wallets, have an insurance policy that if

70
00:06:22,280 --> 00:06:28,600
something goes wrong, it's insured. And so that was the impetus for the starting the company.

71
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:35,460
And, you know, I personally jumped in, I actually first invested in Rob for the first few days,

72
00:06:35,460 --> 00:06:40,900
that was actually my involvement. And then I was just helping him out with more of the business

73
00:06:40,900 --> 00:06:46,140
aspects, he was starting to build a tech MVP, which was really an attestation at the time,

74
00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:52,100
it was kind of this early, it's effectively what proof of reserves is or proof of assets anyway.

75
00:06:52,280 --> 00:07:06,960
And, you know, so he built that and that the premise was, okay, if you're going to ensure self-custody, at least, you know, the question is, how would you prove that you even had the Bitcoin to start with to ensure?

76
00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:18,220
Right. So it's a fraud question, you know, because I could sign up for a policy if it's self-custody and say, like, I have a thousand Bitcoin and then I get the I pay for the insurance policy.

77
00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:24,000
I sign up for the insurance policy and then I'm like, oops, my thousand Bitcoin were stolen.

78
00:07:24,260 --> 00:07:28,520
And then the insurance company has to like pay you the bajillions of dollars for a thousand Bitcoin.

79
00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:37,720
And so the original kind of tech work was to say, well, we can at least prove they have the exact Bitcoin that they say they have.

80
00:07:37,780 --> 00:07:43,360
So if you say you have 10 Bitcoin, you can prove that at the time of signing up for the policy, you have those 10 Bitcoin.

81
00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,640
So he was starting to build that attestation.

82
00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:53,940
I was giving him some help on the business side, you know, Dex and Proformas and financials and stuff like that.

83
00:07:54,220 --> 00:07:56,840
We were having a great time working really well together.

84
00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:02,280
And so I signed up a few days later, like a week later, signed on as its co-founder.

85
00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:02,960
Didn't take long.

86
00:08:03,500 --> 00:08:03,880
No, no, no.

87
00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,160
I mean, days, just individual days.

88
00:08:06,260 --> 00:08:08,140
I pulled like two all-nighters that week.

89
00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:09,860
I hadn't done an all-nighter since college.

90
00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:10,420
It was fun.

91
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,980
And I had been at Starbucks for a long time and ready for the next adventure.

92
00:08:15,420 --> 00:08:16,380
And here it was.

93
00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,040
And I thought the premise was really good.

94
00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:23,100
And I wasn't going to leave my career for something that I didn't think was commercially

95
00:08:23,100 --> 00:08:23,600
viable.

96
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:53,580
You know, I wasn't interested in doing something really cool, but who knows if it's going to work like I thought this would work. And so that's where we started. And when we then actually went out to the insurance market, what we found is that even if you could prove that somebody held the Bitcoin at the moment of signing up, the insurers were not comfortable insuring that anyway, they needed more assurance that it couldn't that really owners committing insurance fraud.

97
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,520
That was the main concern and still is.

98
00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,760
And so we had to go back to the drawing board.

99
00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:06,500
We just weren't able to get traditional insurer buy-in to this idea because of the concern

100
00:09:06,500 --> 00:09:07,640
of customer fraud.

101
00:09:08,560 --> 00:09:12,380
And so we just had to continue to develop a solution.

102
00:09:12,780 --> 00:09:16,020
We're like, look, insurance still needs to exist.

103
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,460
I mean, the problem is still there.

104
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,820
How can we bridge the problem to a solution?

105
00:09:22,820 --> 00:09:29,160
the solution being insurance, like what can we do to bridge those? And we also decided that,

106
00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:34,460
or realized that it was really important to go after larger clients to make it commercially work.

107
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:41,240
We absolutely wanted to be able to serve retail customers, plebs. That was very important to us

108
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:47,100
as founders. So we weren't trying to walk away from retail, but to attract the big insurers,

109
00:09:47,100 --> 00:09:54,820
we also needed to add commercial. So that was kind of our new challenge is like, okay, well,

110
00:09:55,900 --> 00:10:01,600
we still want to support retail, we need to support really large sums. And we need to provide

111
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:07,260
more guarantee to the insurers that insurance fraud will be much more challenging to pull off

112
00:10:07,260 --> 00:10:14,280
or to attempt. And so Rob went down a rabbit hole of doing custom scripts. So like, you know,

113
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:21,820
things that would allow us, well, okay, while you're insured, Anchor Watch can sign as a required

114
00:10:21,820 --> 00:10:27,880
signer. But after if the policy ends, it's just self custody again, right? So it's like, in that

115
00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:32,400
way, it's kind of enhanced self custody. So it's like, you still have your own keys. But this idea

116
00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:38,560
that we temporarily also have a required key, but if you want to stop working with us, we're

117
00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:45,380
powerless again. And so he was looking at doing custom Bitcoin script to do that. And through his

118
00:10:45,380 --> 00:10:52,200
research of writing that script, he came across Miniscript, which, you know, we've talked about

119
00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:58,400
very publicly. Miniscript was invented by the Blockstream team back in 2018, 2019. And it really

120
00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:04,480
did everything already that we were looking to do in a custom way, which obviously de-risks

121
00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:11,520
the custom aspect very much, right? So now it's this, this actual, you know, it's been tested,

122
00:11:11,740 --> 00:11:16,520
it's part of Bitcoin Core, it doesn't require changes, other people are familiar with it,

123
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:23,360
it's auditable, everything is visible on chain. So even customers can can verify that the way we

124
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:29,540
set up a vaults when we say that it goes back to self custody, like that is provable, that is on

125
00:11:29,540 --> 00:11:36,880
chain today. And so when you work with us, the way it would, the process would be, okay, you decide

126
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:41,960
that you want to work with us, you will have your own private keys, we don't have a backup of them,

127
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:48,400
it's truly private keys, you set them up yourself, we on an onboarding call, we guide you through

128
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:54,440
setting up your own private keys, and then you're registering them to the anchor watch vault.

129
00:11:54,440 --> 00:12:01,640
that then creates your anchor watch vault. So it's your UTXO. This is your vault. It has a

130
00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:08,560
location on L1 on chain. And if you wanted, once we have then created your vault, you can take the

131
00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:14,020
output descriptor from that vault if you want, and you can take it to a third party auditor and say,

132
00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,720
Hey, I was going to sign up. You know, I'm at the finish line of signing up with anchor watch.

133
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:24,180
They've created this vault for me. They say that this is how the time locks work. They say that

134
00:12:24,180 --> 00:12:30,320
they're a required signer, but they can't sign you laterally. Is that true? Like, that's what

135
00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:35,340
AnchorWatch says. But is that actually how it's set up? Like, how do I know? Right. And so somebody

136
00:12:35,340 --> 00:12:40,740
who knows Miniscript and who knows Bitcoin script, they could actually look at your output descriptor,

137
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:46,860
your exact output descriptor and verify. They're like, yep, here's that time lock. Yep, yep, yep.

138
00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:52,740
What they say is accurate. And then you could come put your Bitcoin in it after that. And so

139
00:12:52,740 --> 00:12:58,800
by setting that up, that allowed us ultimately to get Lloyds of London. So we explained to Lloyds

140
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:06,840
of London, hey, when we do it this way, when we use Miniscript, temporarily, we are required signers.

141
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:13,300
So while you Lloyds have liability, we actually have our own key. It's not the customer's key,

142
00:13:13,540 --> 00:13:20,480
but that key must sign a transaction while they're insured. And that while it doesn't 100%

143
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:27,120
remove the ability of a customer to attempt fraud, it certainly like it turns it into a whole nother

144
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:32,240
thing, right? Because they're going to have to like, if they're acting, acting funny, right,

145
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:40,220
we have the opportunity to be like, what's going on, right? And we have the immediate connection

146
00:13:40,220 --> 00:13:47,360
to law enforcement. If you file a claim, you know, we are working very quickly with exchanges and

147
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:53,900
law enforcement to track coins and all those kind of things that gave the insurers a lot more peace

148
00:13:53,900 --> 00:13:58,720
of mind. So then they signed on. We got Lloyds of London. We became a Lloyds of London coverholder.

149
00:13:59,380 --> 00:14:04,500
We are the only Lloyds of London. There are two coverholders in the world that can sell

150
00:14:04,500 --> 00:14:10,880
kind of crypto related insurance, only two. And we are the only one who can serve retail customers.

151
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,900
So that was really important to us to continue being able to serve plebs. And so currently,

152
00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:24,660
We are the only way that if you're just an individual, you have your family, you have your Bitcoin, you want it to be held in a super secure way with insurance, we're the only way.

153
00:14:25,620 --> 00:14:39,320
I think that's so fascinating just because it's like this kind of merger of like the super high-tech Bitcoin mini script side with then like the kind of low-tech or just old-school insurance business.

154
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,440
Like it's this melding of the two.

155
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:46,440
and you know when I uh like heard you guys were like with Lloyd's of London I like knew of Lloyd's

156
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,940
of London just because like one of those like names that you know like I'm not in that business

157
00:14:49,940 --> 00:14:54,920
but like you just you know they've been around for a few hundred years right so like the oldest

158
00:14:54,920 --> 00:15:00,040
insurer in the world yeah yeah like they developed a decent reputation it seems was that like how was

159
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,260
that experience like were they pretty receptive like when you came in here talking about mini

160
00:15:04,260 --> 00:15:09,040
script and these things like did they actually like I don't know they had the chops to like

161
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,060
actually, I mean, clearly they did, but like they grokked that relatively quickly or was that still

162
00:15:13,060 --> 00:15:17,660
a pretty laborious process? Just talking them through that. I think both are true at the same

163
00:15:17,660 --> 00:15:23,940
time. So I'll differentiate Lloyd's versus the rest of the traditional insurers that we talk to.

164
00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:32,100
So the rest, they don't have any experience at all. So we would get on pitch calls, which is

165
00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:37,480
effectively what they are. You approach here. I didn't talk to State Farm, but that's a household

166
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:43,480
name. So let's pretend I did. I would literally like cold call State Farm and say like, you know,

167
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:50,140
we would find their more or less their biz dev team, which they all have, and call in and say,

168
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:57,540
hey, we're, you know, a small startup. Here's what we're trying to do. You know, we'd love to

169
00:15:57,540 --> 00:16:02,200
talk to you about it. They would set up a pitch call and we would pitch the idea to them.

170
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:07,280
They were all very intellectually interested, right? Because they get a lot of the same

171
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:12,780
stuff every day. And so we come in, we're trying to do this Bitcoin insurance. It's fascinating.

172
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:18,980
It's a good story, right? The way that we've created the solution and really mitigated a lot

173
00:16:18,980 --> 00:16:22,860
of the risk, not all of the risk, there's still wrench attacks, there's still risks.

174
00:16:23,860 --> 00:16:29,540
But we've mitigated a lot. And so we went down this path where they're like, oh, that's so

175
00:16:29,540 --> 00:16:35,360
interesting, like, and send us some backup information. So we'd get into these conversations

176
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,160
that would end up going weeks or even into months.

177
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,340
And then at the end of it, they would be like,

178
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,180
well, this was definitely the most interesting thing

179
00:16:43,180 --> 00:16:45,280
that I've had the opportunity to take a look at,

180
00:16:45,420 --> 00:16:47,120
but we don't have appetite for crypto.

181
00:16:47,300 --> 00:16:48,900
And you're like, cool, thanks.

182
00:16:49,660 --> 00:16:53,500
For that use of five weeks, that was really great.

183
00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:56,420
So Lloyd's was different.

184
00:16:56,740 --> 00:16:59,260
So eventually then we found our way to Lloyd's.

185
00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:00,760
They're out of London.

186
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:04,680
They are a little more expensive.

187
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:12,020
But the reason for that is that they take on the weird stuff.

188
00:17:12,540 --> 00:17:16,880
That's what they have over the hundreds of years that they've been in business.

189
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:22,240
They have ended up being the marketplace for insurance weird stuff.

190
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:28,480
So, you know, previously, like the last big industry to have to break into insurance would be cannabis.

191
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:29,300
Right.

192
00:17:29,300 --> 00:17:37,340
So all the, you know, cannabis, whether it was growers or shops or whatever, they were debanked, right?

193
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,280
So they had huge debanking issues and they couldn't get insurance.

194
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:51,840
And so eventually Lloyd's became the place where like if you're a cannabis company and you need insurance, Lloyd's was willing to do it, whereas the other insurers weren't.

195
00:17:51,840 --> 00:18:05,960
And so we just kind of fall into that camp of like, Lloyd's is more willing to be neutral in their assessment of any given industry or business and assess it based on the real risks.

196
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,240
And reputational risk is part of that.

197
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:17,600
So it's not that they're not looking, but and if they deem it to be an insurable product, they're open to doing it.

198
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:29,220
So for that reason, all the existing crypto insurance – and I use that word crypto on purpose because everything out there generally was a blend.

199
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,140
So all the existing crypto insurance policies had been written by Lloyds.

200
00:18:34,620 --> 00:18:38,740
So there have been policies written in crypto since 2014.

201
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,640
That's when the first one was actually written.

202
00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:43,900
I did not know it went back that far actually.

203
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:44,700
It does, yeah.

204
00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:58,880
And so, you know, when you hear about like Coinbase has a $350 million policy or BitGo has a $250 million policy or like, you know, there are some whales who have their Casasius coins, you know, the thousand Bitcoin Casasius coins.

205
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:00,000
They have those insured.

206
00:19:00,580 --> 00:19:00,800
Right.

207
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:07,420
And so anything that does exist was underwritten by Lloyds.

208
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,560
And there's a few insurance companies.

209
00:19:09,740 --> 00:19:11,100
So Lloyds is really a marketplace.

210
00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:12,700
It's a brand and a marketplace.

211
00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:18,760
And then under it are all these different insurance companies who choose to participate in this marketplace.

212
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:23,220
So they're paying a fee to Lloyd's to be part of the Lloyd's pool of insurers.

213
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:32,860
And so within that, there's a few of these, they're called syndicates, who have developed the expertise and the appetite.

214
00:19:32,860 --> 00:19:34,500
They have the appetite for crypto.

215
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:37,420
And so they, you know, went in.

216
00:19:37,420 --> 00:19:49,960
And so as you can imagine, if you're going to be willing to write a $350 million policy to Coinbase, you've got to get in there to gain that comfort.

217
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:57,100
So they've educated themselves through the years on various custody methods, procedures, signatures.

218
00:19:57,420 --> 00:20:03,540
So by the time we made it to Lloyd's, people would be surprised in terms of how knowledgeable they are.

219
00:20:03,540 --> 00:20:08,560
because we went to these same syndicates that have already underwritten other companies.

220
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:14,700
And so actually, we found our underwriter to be extremely knowledgeable, like extremely

221
00:20:14,700 --> 00:20:15,200
knowledgeable.

222
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:22,100
And so really, we only had to educate him and them on Miniscript itself.

223
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,680
And because Miniscript was new to them.

224
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:39,900
And so but they already were extremely knowledgeable on Bitcoin, Bitcoin code, multisig, you know, all that kind of stuff, like at the cryptographic level, like they're knowledgeable.

225
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:46,200
So it wasn't once we found the right people, it wasn't that hard from there.

226
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,560
You know, we refreshing, though, probably once you did.

227
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,520
Oh, yeah. Impressive. Impressive, actually.

228
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,720
Like a real knowledge.

229
00:20:55,260 --> 00:21:02,100
That said, I mean, that's limited to a very small number of individual humans, right?

230
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:14,640
So there's this, you know, let's say there's 20 people within the various companies under Lloyds who have really a Bitcoiner level of knowledge on the tech.

231
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,520
It's not a ton of them, but they're there.

232
00:21:16,660 --> 00:21:18,500
And they're the ones underwriting the business.

233
00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:35,660
And we're in the middle of working on writing some very large policies, like very, very large, that are so large that we will need to go outside of these few companies that are already participating in crypto.

234
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:45,140
And so, you know, we will get to this point of having to educate more to get to the size policy that we want.

235
00:21:45,140 --> 00:21:48,580
But I think at this point now we feel really good about our ability to do that.

236
00:21:49,220 --> 00:21:53,100
Let's talk about using Bitcoin the way it's meant to be used.

237
00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:57,000
Self-custodial, lightning fast and ready for the real world.

238
00:21:57,340 --> 00:22:00,520
That's exactly what BitKit Wallet is all about.

239
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:09,660
BitKit Wallet is a clean, powerful Bitcoin and lightning mobile wallet that gives you full control on chain and on lightning.

240
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:11,880
You hold the keys always.

241
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:21,860
Whether you're brand new or are a seasoned Bitcoiner, Bitkit's intuitive wallet design makes it simple to send, receive, and manage your sats.

242
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:32,280
QuickPay lets you fire off Lightning payments faster than ever and seamless integration between on-chain and Lightning means your funds are always where you need them.

243
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:38,260
It's your daily driver Bitcoin and Lightning wallet and it actually feels good to use it.

244
00:22:38,260 --> 00:22:44,020
And with modular widgets, you can personalize your experience to match your style.

245
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,220
There's even a lightning node running right on your phone.

246
00:22:48,660 --> 00:22:51,000
No custodians, no compromises.

247
00:22:51,720 --> 00:23:01,200
Go to bitkit.to or search BitKit wallet in your app store and start using Bitcoin like it's meant to be used.

248
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,520
That's B-I-T-K-I-T dot T-O.

249
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:22,520
If you've accepted that we're living through the fourth turning, then it's time to get yourself some Bitcoin and then go to bitbox.swiss slash walker and use the promo code walker for 5% off the easy to use, fully open source Bitcoin only Bitbox02 hardware wallet.

250
00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:28,760
Then get your Bitcoin off the exchange into your own self custody and prepare yourself for the chaos that is to come.

251
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:39,020
The world is going pretty wild right now, but Bitcoin is ripping and your stack will soon be worth a heck of a lot more in fiat value than it is today as every currency around the world hyperinflates.

252
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:43,420
So now is the perfect time to get your security locked down tight with Bitbox.

253
00:23:43,540 --> 00:23:52,000
I really want to emphasize that the Bitbox O2 is easy as hell to use whether you're brand new to Bitcoin, it's your first time setting up a hardware wallet, or you are a well-seasoned psychopath.

254
00:23:52,420 --> 00:23:55,460
It is Bitcoin only and fully open source.

255
00:23:55,460 --> 00:23:59,280
No need to trust me. You can head to their GitHub and verify that for yourself.

256
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:04,200
When you go to bitbox.swiss slash walker and use the promo code walker,

257
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,520
not only do you get 5% off, but you also help support this podcast.

258
00:24:08,660 --> 00:24:09,460
So thank you.

259
00:24:09,780 --> 00:24:18,360
So I think a lot of people, and I'll include myself in this because I'm also a human who has knee-jerk reactions to things.

260
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:25,380
it's very easy to when you as a like a you know a very toxic bitcoiner you see things from the

261
00:24:25,380 --> 00:24:30,140
let's say trad fi world or the fiat world different products services whatever they may be

262
00:24:30,140 --> 00:24:35,420
and you see those sort of brought into the bitcoin world and you're maybe your first reaction is like

263
00:24:35,420 --> 00:24:39,260
well you know what the heck i thought we were trying to burn all this to the ground i thought

264
00:24:39,260 --> 00:24:44,700
you know but like you know it's one of those things where not not everything is inherently bad

265
00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:48,400
Like there's just a lot of, you know, fiat distorts incentives, right?

266
00:24:48,400 --> 00:25:01,100
So there's a lot of things may have been distorted, but I think insurance is one of those things where it's like, yeah, the insurance industry may have some issues, especially like in the US with just the way it interfaces with the healthcare industry as well.

267
00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:02,780
There's a lot of predatory stuff that happens.

268
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:03,300
Yeah.

269
00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:08,320
I think health insurance, I think, is just the worst thing about America.

270
00:25:08,580 --> 00:25:09,440
I honestly do.

271
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:20,480
I think like that along with the military industrial complex, the health insurance complex is just damaging to America.

272
00:25:21,300 --> 00:25:21,600
Like, yeah.

273
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:22,440
So I'm with you.

274
00:25:23,020 --> 00:25:25,500
And tied in with the pharmaceutical industry too.

275
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,120
So it's just a – it's a hydra.

276
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,340
Like it's a many-headed monster.

277
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:37,180
But so like on the point of insurance specifically, it's like this is something – yes, it exists in the fiat world.

278
00:25:37,180 --> 00:25:42,020
now it exists in the Bitcoin world and it has, but you guys made them available for retail.

279
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:47,640
This seems like something that is a little bit less contentious maybe, you know, than even like,

280
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,060
you know, trying to earn yield on your Bitcoin by giving it to a, you know, a bank or whatever,

281
00:25:52,180 --> 00:25:58,580
whatever it may be. Is that the, has the reaction that you've found been mostly positive? Have there

282
00:25:58,580 --> 00:26:02,800
been some like, or has there been still a decent amount of pushback that you've gotten? How have

283
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:08,240
you found that reception to be? I would say we, there's a few things. So overall reception is

284
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:16,820
really positive and people who want insurance feel fine about property insurance, right? Like that's,

285
00:26:16,940 --> 00:26:21,880
they, you know, that's, we're a subset of property insurance. It's way less contentious

286
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:28,460
than health insurance. And if people understand and want insurance, they're not put off by it.

287
00:26:28,460 --> 00:26:45,187
I think there a few things that are interesting or that people question So one of them is the concept of dollar denominated insurance So buying a million dollar policy versus a 10 Bitcoin policy And we can talk about that And then I think the

288
00:26:45,187 --> 00:26:55,647
other thing just with our current product that some maxis feel feelings about is that we have a

289
00:26:55,647 --> 00:27:06,107
recovery layer on the vault. So if you die, and you need support, we have a layer, a time-locked

290
00:27:06,107 --> 00:27:13,387
layer that we call the recovery layer that allows customers to, or their beneficiaries rather,

291
00:27:13,387 --> 00:27:19,727
to regain access to the Bitcoin if you die, when AnchorWatch and a third-party company

292
00:27:19,727 --> 00:27:23,407
have the ability to together recover those assets.

293
00:27:23,907 --> 00:27:30,147
So more or less, there is a multi-institutional custody layer in the vault that allows access

294
00:27:30,147 --> 00:27:34,587
if you pass away or if you are victim of a wrench attack where they steal all the customer

295
00:27:34,587 --> 00:27:35,007
keys.

296
00:27:35,807 --> 00:27:41,047
Because, I mean, it just, it provides more or less fail-safe inheritance access.

297
00:27:41,787 --> 00:27:46,927
And that happens right before it becomes pure self-custody.

298
00:27:46,927 --> 00:27:53,587
So pure self-custody, that unlocks when you're not insured anymore because that's the stipulation of the insurance company.

299
00:27:54,007 --> 00:28:01,827
They're like, if the customer has all the keys and they can control it unilaterally, that needs to be after the insurance policy ends.

300
00:28:02,287 --> 00:28:11,547
The recovery layer is there right before the insurance policy ends, and we did that because we can insure ourselves.

301
00:28:11,747 --> 00:28:16,287
So the insurance policy specifically covers if we misuse that layer.

302
00:28:16,287 --> 00:28:23,307
So if Anchor Watch and our partner, which our partner is Coin Corner, they're a regulated exchange out of the Isle of Man.

303
00:28:23,407 --> 00:28:24,867
We're very public about who it is.

304
00:28:25,407 --> 00:28:26,527
Bitcoin only exchange.

305
00:28:26,707 --> 00:28:32,067
They've been holding customer assets for more than 10 years, never had a loss, never had anything shady.

306
00:28:32,227 --> 00:28:33,247
So good, good partner.

307
00:28:34,067 --> 00:28:42,407
But if we in Coin Corner colluded to steal a customer's Bitcoin using that recovery layer, that's covered by the insurance specifically.

308
00:28:42,407 --> 00:29:10,287
So we're saying, hey, Bitcoiners, we know that like, not your keys, not your coin. We know that's a fear. And to address that fear, we made sure that that is specifically covered by the insurance. Because remember, the liability, the actual dollar liability is held by Lloyd's of London. So even if Anchor Watch misbehaves, Lloyd's is good for it. Right. And so we have we have feelings on that. But, you know, it might be interesting to go.

309
00:29:10,287 --> 00:29:38,347
And by the way, that's like a minority of people. Those are just the two things that we get a lot of questions about. And for most people, especially if they're very inheritance-focused, like if they're just a family man trying to make sure that their treasure map isn't going to be good enough, then those people, I think, they understand the benefits of having recovery options. And that's part of the reason why they're coming to us.

310
00:29:38,347 --> 00:29:44,087
so yeah and i i want to kind of go down that uh that inheritance rabbit hole a little bit but

311
00:29:44,087 --> 00:29:48,587
maybe like just uh well actually you know yeah let's go down there and then we'll circle back

312
00:29:48,587 --> 00:29:53,947
circle back to denomination yeah yeah because i think that like that idea of what is uh what does

313
00:29:53,947 --> 00:29:58,567
this look like on a in a hyper bitcoin as world or on a bitcoin standard or is you know that

314
00:29:58,567 --> 00:30:01,827
stepping stone that's really interesting but i do want to talk about that inheritance piece because

315
00:30:01,827 --> 00:30:06,527
a lot of people you know will say like wait you know i'll just like die with my bitcoin and like

316
00:30:06,527 --> 00:30:11,627
that's all well and good like until you have a family and then i think it becomes very clear for

317
00:30:11,627 --> 00:30:18,187
anybody like i have a i have a young son um i don't want to die with my bitcoin i like then then what

318
00:30:18,187 --> 00:30:24,987
was the point of all this like why why no that yeah i should have bought all the chairs yeah like

319
00:30:24,987 --> 00:30:29,907
i could have i could have been having just a rooms full of chairs just chairs everywhere if that was

320
00:30:29,907 --> 00:30:35,687
the goal as far as the eye can see but so no but really like you bit we everybody says like bitcoin

321
00:30:35,687 --> 00:30:40,587
is generational wealth. And that's great. But like, what's your plan? How does that actually

322
00:30:40,587 --> 00:30:45,307
work? So you guys have now, like, this is part of your emerging business. Now, this is something

323
00:30:45,307 --> 00:30:49,107
that you guys are now offering. Can you talk about that a little bit? And maybe just like,

324
00:30:49,167 --> 00:30:54,127
talk about like what you guys identify in the, as the problem in terms of, I know you've had

325
00:30:54,127 --> 00:30:58,967
conversations with a lot of folks as you've built out this product. So like, what have you seen as

326
00:30:58,967 --> 00:31:03,287
the problem and how did you guys actually address that in your, in your technical solution?

327
00:31:03,287 --> 00:31:30,447
Yep. So I mean, here, the problem is, is the treasure map. You know, the how I'm communicating, let's, let's be stereotypical of Bitcoiners and say that they're, they're mostly men, right? So let's be just keep it straightforward and say that what we're talking about is a married man, maybe with kids, and his wife is not a hardcore maxi, right?

328
00:31:30,447 --> 00:31:36,747
So she's not up with the signing devices, the hardware wallets, all of that supportive.

329
00:31:37,267 --> 00:31:40,947
It's there. You know, that's how they've achieved wealth and everything.

330
00:31:41,427 --> 00:31:46,067
But they're just concerned. Right. So they have some sort of treasure map.

331
00:31:46,447 --> 00:31:51,327
You know, usually starts in a file cabinet. There's certain information in a file cabinet.

332
00:31:51,527 --> 00:31:59,167
And it sends them on a little bit of a scavenger hunt because everybody knows you don't want to just leave the seed phrase in the file cabinet.

333
00:31:59,167 --> 00:32:06,387
that's not resilient, that can be stolen. And so they split it up. And we hear all sorts of stories

334
00:32:06,387 --> 00:32:12,767
of different ways that people have split it up. Not that people are telling us it's literally in

335
00:32:12,767 --> 00:32:18,107
this location, but they'll give us hints of what they've done. And they're like, I think she's got

336
00:32:18,107 --> 00:32:26,767
it. I think she's got it, but I'm worried, right? And I'm very open with my pre-Anchor Watch

337
00:32:26,767 --> 00:32:34,047
experience myself that I had, you know, pure, pure self custody. And I had done my version of

338
00:32:34,047 --> 00:32:38,387
a treasure map, which I think was super straightforward, like very easy to follow.

339
00:32:38,947 --> 00:32:44,127
And I told my family, like, okay, all you need to do is start in this location.

340
00:32:44,907 --> 00:32:50,707
If you start there, and you read the words, you're going to be fine. Right. And so I went

341
00:32:50,707 --> 00:32:56,607
through this, I had three different conversations with three sets of family members. And they're

342
00:32:56,607 --> 00:33:03,587
got it. Got it. Sounds good. And like four to six months later, I don't remember exactly how long I

343
00:33:03,587 --> 00:33:10,587
went back to them and I was like, Hey, remember, you know, remember the Bitcoin inheritance plan?

344
00:33:10,747 --> 00:33:19,807
Like we good. Everybody remember. And one of them remembered with prompting. Right. And I was like,

345
00:33:19,807 --> 00:33:28,287
remember you have to start at the one location, the one location. If I die, where would you go

346
00:33:28,287 --> 00:33:36,367
to get started? And with that prompting, they remembered. The other two, they were like,

347
00:33:36,847 --> 00:33:41,187
no, they didn't remember. They straight up didn't remember. All they had to remember was one

348
00:33:41,187 --> 00:33:48,167
location. That's it. And they didn't remember. These are smart people. My family are high

349
00:33:48,167 --> 00:33:53,947
achieving smart people and they didn't remember. So that's the problem ultimately. And, and what

350
00:33:53,947 --> 00:33:59,647
people have expressed is that like, maybe they already use a collaborative custodian and they're

351
00:33:59,647 --> 00:34:04,927
pretty happy with their collaborative, collaborative custodian. But the challenge is it is collaborative

352
00:34:04,927 --> 00:34:10,168
custody, which means it's self custody with a backup. So you can have lost a key. Let's just

353
00:34:10,168 --> 00:34:17,367
say it's a two of three. You can have lost a key, but if you lose both your keys, you're toast. If

354
00:34:17,367 --> 00:34:29,807
If you die and your wife can't remember the location of at least one of those keys and the pin code, if it's a hardware wallet or the seed phrase, you're toast.

355
00:34:29,807 --> 00:34:41,427
Right. So it still puts a lot of pressure on the beneficiary, on the wife or the family or the estate or whomever it is to at least hang on to a partial set of information.

356
00:34:41,427 --> 00:34:46,168
And just based on my own personal experience, like it's not without risk.

357
00:34:46,168 --> 00:35:03,187
I mean, hopefully, like, you know, you can reiterate, you can have an annual reminder conversation, you can do all these things and hopefully pound it into your head, but you just can't assume that people understand that they grok how unreversible this is.

358
00:35:03,187 --> 00:35:19,267
Like if you can't, if you cannot find the seed phrase, like there is nobody who can help you with that. Right. And people just really have a hard time conceptualizing that if they're not native Bitcoiners. Right.

359
00:35:19,267 --> 00:35:38,807
And so, you know, that's what people share with us is these treasure map fears. And so our inheritance protocol, the technical solution, I already kind of explained, like we have day in, day out when you work with Anchor Watch, you have your own private keys.

360
00:35:38,807 --> 00:35:44,367
if you want to send Bitcoin, 90 plus percent of our clients actually opt for a HODL discount,

361
00:35:44,668 --> 00:35:50,867
gives you a big discount on your insurance premium. And we actually disable the send button.

362
00:35:51,168 --> 00:35:56,127
So if you wanted to send Bitcoin, it would be extra calls with us to like,

363
00:35:56,427 --> 00:36:01,867
turn that back on that functionality. But if you wanted to spend Bitcoin day one,

364
00:36:01,927 --> 00:36:05,807
it would be customer signs with their signing devices and anchor watch signs,

365
00:36:05,807 --> 00:36:11,407
and then the Bitcoin can move. After the insurance policy ends, it's pure self-custody. As long as

366
00:36:11,407 --> 00:36:18,688
the customer still has their signing devices, it is self-custody, like pure and simple. Even if our

367
00:36:18,688 --> 00:36:24,127
software disappears, so if you signed in to Trident, our software, and like the website is down,

368
00:36:24,327 --> 00:36:29,287
like we're just gone, gone. As long as you still have your keys and your output descriptor,

369
00:36:29,707 --> 00:36:34,907
you can actually still access your Bitcoin on Bitcoin Core, right? So this is totally Bitcoin

370
00:36:34,907 --> 00:36:41,927
native. And then that recovery layer is there one month before your policy ends, where it's

371
00:36:41,927 --> 00:36:49,547
Anchor Watch plus Coin Corner, together can move the Bitcoin. And the way time locks work on Bitcoin,

372
00:36:49,947 --> 00:36:55,747
because again, this is native, it's the smart contract is checking how much time has passed

373
00:36:55,747 --> 00:37:02,127
since the vault was created. So once you hit 11 months, the recovery layer opens. So if you die

374
00:37:02,127 --> 00:37:05,668
Before that, we would tell the beneficiary, okay, you just need to wait.

375
00:37:05,827 --> 00:37:07,747
So let's say you signed up January 1st.

376
00:37:07,827 --> 00:37:11,087
The recovery layer is going to come available on December 1st.

377
00:37:11,307 --> 00:37:19,427
So if you die in June, I'd be telling Carla, okay, deal with your family, grieve, deal with the funeral.

378
00:37:19,747 --> 00:37:22,267
It's going to be sitting here safe and sound for you.

379
00:37:22,887 --> 00:37:28,347
And on December 1st, we and Coin Corner can recover your assets for you.

380
00:37:28,347 --> 00:37:32,067
If you want to keep being our customer, we'll get you ahead of time.

381
00:37:32,127 --> 00:37:34,668
We'll get you set up with your own vault, your own signing devices.

382
00:37:35,607 --> 00:37:38,987
I mean, Carla is a bad example because she is so knowledgeable.

383
00:37:39,747 --> 00:37:43,047
But, you know, not everybody is in that situation.

384
00:37:43,527 --> 00:37:46,227
So, you know, we would educate them on what they need to do.

385
00:37:46,227 --> 00:38:00,587
And then on December 1st, sometime in that month, we and CoinCorner would move the Bitcoin from your vault into the wife's new vault and more or less continue protecting her go forward.

386
00:38:00,587 --> 00:38:07,168
If that's not what a beneficiary wanted to do, if they wanted to liquidate it or otherwise, you know, we would just help them.

387
00:38:07,347 --> 00:38:09,387
Like, what are you trying to do with it?

388
00:38:09,747 --> 00:38:11,047
And we'll just support.

389
00:38:11,148 --> 00:38:14,747
We don't provide a recovery or we don't charge a recovery fee.

390
00:38:14,867 --> 00:38:17,127
This is just a service for our clients.

391
00:38:18,047 --> 00:38:26,467
And so the way those time locks work is, let's say, you know, your policy expires December 31st, right, in this example.

392
00:38:26,467 --> 00:38:34,207
And so the way time walks work is every year we're going to get together and sign a transaction together that will act as our key health check.

393
00:38:34,367 --> 00:38:35,827
So we'll just do it the once a year.

394
00:38:35,967 --> 00:38:39,287
We'd sign a transaction which effectively restarts the clock.

395
00:38:39,847 --> 00:38:42,767
Right. What's actually happening is we're doing a self send.

396
00:38:42,907 --> 00:38:49,207
So we're sending it from this vault into an identical next year vault, but with new time walks.

397
00:38:49,207 --> 00:38:55,627
and you know so a couple of months out maybe in october i'm like hey walker it's around you know

398
00:38:55,627 --> 00:39:01,107
we want to get time on the calendar in december to to sign your to do your health check and to

399
00:39:01,107 --> 00:39:06,007
restart the lock time locks for next year when it's good for you to get on a call with us we

400
00:39:06,007 --> 00:39:11,267
don't hear back from you right uh so we're like all right so a couple of weeks later we're checking

401
00:39:11,267 --> 00:39:18,907
in again now we're starting to uh you know be very clear that like hey on december 31st your

402
00:39:18,907 --> 00:39:24,507
vault is going to become self-custody, no problem. Just make sure you have your signing devices,

403
00:39:25,227 --> 00:39:29,547
make sure you have your output descriptor, make sure we still don't hear from you.

404
00:39:30,267 --> 00:39:37,107
So let's say then your policy actually then goes to self-custody. And so it's still safe and sound.

405
00:39:37,107 --> 00:39:42,707
It's not going anywhere, but it's just sitting there in self-custody. We will actually reach

406
00:39:42,707 --> 00:39:47,447
out to your beneficiary because we don't claim ownership ever. This is still your Bitcoin,

407
00:39:47,447 --> 00:39:53,927
whether it's it's never ours like we are not saying like oh you left it there it's ours now

408
00:39:53,927 --> 00:39:59,567
finders keepers yeah no no it did it this is the client's bitcoin and is never anchor watches

409
00:39:59,567 --> 00:40:07,067
bitcoin ever and so uh unless you request that we do it faster so which customers can do they

410
00:40:07,067 --> 00:40:12,747
can say i don't want you to wait 90 days but that would be our standard at 90 days after your policy

411
00:40:12,747 --> 00:40:18,247
ends, we still haven't heard from you and we've tried a lot, then we'd be reaching out to your,

412
00:40:18,407 --> 00:40:23,547
we collect two, primary and secondary beneficiary. We'd start reaching out to your primary and then

413
00:40:23,547 --> 00:40:28,668
your secondary saying, hey, we're trying to get a hold of Walker. You're named as a beneficiary

414
00:40:28,668 --> 00:40:33,707
on his account. Would you be able to help us get in touch with him? And we're assuming that either

415
00:40:33,707 --> 00:40:39,707
the primary or the secondary can inform us that you've passed away. Now you're already in self

416
00:40:39,707 --> 00:40:45,447
custody. Right. But the whole premise here is that the wife doesn't know where the signing devices

417
00:40:45,447 --> 00:40:50,707
are, doesn't know the pin codes. And that's for a lot of people, that's a benefit, right? Like

418
00:40:50,707 --> 00:40:56,648
they never had to teach her about it because it's just not required for this custody version or this

419
00:40:56,648 --> 00:41:05,547
custody model. And so she'd be like, ah, okay. So actually he passed away last month or he passed

420
00:41:05,547 --> 00:41:10,927
away in November. And yeah, sorry, it just got away from me. And I forgot to reach out and tell

421
00:41:10,927 --> 00:41:15,707
you or I didn't even know that we had a policy. But either way, like now that you've told me,

422
00:41:15,827 --> 00:41:20,327
yes, he died. So what do we do next? Right? And we're like, I'm sorry to hear that.

423
00:41:20,967 --> 00:41:26,767
But because the time locks in Bitcoin, it's just checking has the amount of time passed.

424
00:41:27,447 --> 00:41:35,527
So once we've hit 16, 17, 20 months, the answer is still yes. That amount of time has passed.

425
00:41:35,547 --> 00:42:01,987
So even though it's self custody, the recovery layer does still work. Right. So she's not like, oh, my God, I only have 30 days or I'm locked out forever. That's not the way the tech works. It's once it's available, always available. So even if it took us, you know, until May of next year to hear from her, to finally get contact with her or the secondary beneficiary, eventually we'll find the rightful owner.

426
00:42:01,987 --> 00:42:04,927
Because if we can't find those people, it belongs to the estate.

427
00:42:04,927 --> 00:42:10,787
So then the state, the states of your residence actually determines who is the rightful owner to your assets.

428
00:42:10,987 --> 00:42:15,267
And now that's the rightful owner of your if we can't find your beneficiaries.

429
00:42:15,688 --> 00:42:18,387
And so we would eventually find the person.

430
00:42:18,527 --> 00:42:22,827
The recovery layer will still work and we will recover the assets.

431
00:42:23,148 --> 00:42:28,707
So that that is the technical way that we can offer this foolproof inheritance.

432
00:42:28,707 --> 00:42:36,427
And then we just the inheritance protocol also just has some additional things that make it easier for people.

433
00:42:37,168 --> 00:42:41,447
So within your dashboard, as soon as you sign up there, there's a couple of buttons.

434
00:42:41,447 --> 00:42:48,027
There's a proof of assets button, which is effectively a personal attestation, but it's instantaneous.

435
00:42:48,027 --> 00:42:49,587
So you hit proof of assets.

436
00:42:50,648 --> 00:42:57,847
We actually then do the cryptographic check and pull verification that, yes, your Bitcoin is sitting in your vault.

437
00:42:57,847 --> 00:43:11,307
And it spits out a PDF, like an official looking PDF that says, yep, as of July 1st at 1.50 p.m., Walker holds X Bitcoin in this particular UTXO.

438
00:43:11,847 --> 00:43:13,927
Anchor Watch is the service provider.

439
00:43:14,247 --> 00:43:19,847
And we verify based on this cryptographic proof that that is there as of this moment.

440
00:43:20,507 --> 00:43:24,327
And so that is something that you can print out as many times as you want.

441
00:43:24,547 --> 00:43:25,947
You could use it for bank loans.

442
00:43:25,947 --> 00:43:30,527
You could use it for just taxes and just record keeping of your balance sheet.

443
00:43:30,607 --> 00:43:34,207
But you can also give it to your trust attorney or your estate lawyer.

444
00:43:34,347 --> 00:43:36,567
You can put in your file cabinet if you want.

445
00:43:36,688 --> 00:43:40,607
Right. You don't have to if you don't want to list how much you have, but it is available.

446
00:43:41,247 --> 00:43:46,188
And then the other thing, there's another button for your estate lawyer, for your record keeping.

447
00:43:46,188 --> 00:43:50,947
That is just a instruction sheet for that beneficiary.

448
00:43:50,947 --> 00:43:56,807
beneficiaries. So again, like the whole idea here is that you're not putting pressure on people to

449
00:43:56,807 --> 00:44:04,327
remember things because memories are fallible, like very fallible, as has proven in my family.

450
00:44:04,827 --> 00:44:11,967
So this sheet is more or less just explaining like, hey, this individual named here holds Bitcoin

451
00:44:11,967 --> 00:44:17,947
with Anchor Watch. Anchor Watch, it provides some information about Anchor Watch. And it says,

452
00:44:17,947 --> 00:44:24,027
if this individual has died to kick off the inheritance protocol, contact us here and we'll

453
00:44:24,027 --> 00:44:28,707
walk you through it. Here's what you'll need, you know, death certificate, plus depending on what

454
00:44:28,707 --> 00:44:33,867
state you live in, sometimes the states have additional documentation. And so we're going to

455
00:44:33,867 --> 00:44:41,247
do that verification. You do not need to file an insurance claim. This is not an insurance claim.

456
00:44:41,247 --> 00:44:47,567
The Bitcoin is not lost, right? So the Bitcoin has not been lost or stolen. We know exactly where it

457
00:44:47,567 --> 00:44:54,427
is. It's sitting there safe and sound. This is our anchor watch standards to return it to its

458
00:44:54,427 --> 00:44:58,567
rightful owner. That's a good thing, by the way. Like, it just means it's straightforward. Like,

459
00:44:59,227 --> 00:45:03,407
you don't need to pay a deductible, you don't need to pay a fee like you would if it was an

460
00:45:03,407 --> 00:45:08,067
insurance claim. Instead, this is just returning your assets to you. So it just gives them the

461
00:45:08,067 --> 00:45:15,527
instructions, gives them like three forms of contact. So with us, and just gives them the

462
00:45:15,527 --> 00:45:21,887
whether it's the beneficiary, the wife, or a trust attorney or a trustee of your trust,

463
00:45:22,367 --> 00:45:25,927
whomever, it just gives them sufficient information, everything they would need to

464
00:45:25,927 --> 00:45:31,927
kick off this process and enable us to return the Bitcoin to you. So it's both straightforward,

465
00:45:32,267 --> 00:45:38,827
but also very comprehensive. And, and, you know, I mentioned to you, like, I'm going through a

466
00:45:38,827 --> 00:45:47,587
really serious health, uh, health thing where I have to think about mortality, uh, in a very real

467
00:45:47,587 --> 00:45:53,967
way. And we started this work before any of that, right? We started it actually based on customer

468
00:45:53,967 --> 00:45:59,067
requests, like, Hey, it would be really great if you just had something that I could give to my

469
00:45:59,067 --> 00:46:04,927
trust lawyer for them to hang on to. They just put it in my file and it explains what they need to

470
00:46:04,927 --> 00:46:09,867
do. I was like, oh, that's, yeah, I can't believe I didn't think of that. Like, yes, that would be

471
00:46:09,867 --> 00:46:17,027
really great. And so that's actually where it came from. And so we, maybe three to four months ago,

472
00:46:17,027 --> 00:46:22,307
we kicked off that work. We consulted with various trust attorneys and estate attorneys,

473
00:46:22,967 --> 00:46:27,867
you know, consulted with the states, got a better understanding of what really needs to happen

474
00:46:27,867 --> 00:46:35,947
from a legal standpoint, from the fiat standpoint, and how probate works and all those kind of

475
00:46:35,947 --> 00:46:41,727
things. And we just made sure that what we had built, both technically, but now also what we

476
00:46:41,727 --> 00:46:46,467
had built in terms of how our terms of service are worded, that these letters are available,

477
00:46:47,027 --> 00:46:55,727
that from a fiat lawyer's standpoint, that it is done in a way that makes it as smooth as possible

478
00:46:55,727 --> 00:47:03,787
for the customer and just makes it as foolproof that it's just easy. Like if you die, God forbid,

479
00:47:04,127 --> 00:47:10,547
we're moving it over. And so then that was already going on, but I do have this ability now to think

480
00:47:10,547 --> 00:47:16,067
of it really personally, like really, really personally and say, look, do I feel comfortable

481
00:47:16,067 --> 00:47:24,027
with this? Does this make me feel safe? Cause I might need it. Like I might need it to work soon.

482
00:47:24,027 --> 00:47:37,387
and what would I change? With you, totally with you. But no, I mean, it's given me a very empathetic

483
00:47:37,387 --> 00:47:44,947
eye, right? And the reality is, even with that context, I wouldn't change it. Like we have not

484
00:47:44,947 --> 00:47:49,727
had to go back and change anything because I've thought about it differently. No, I'm thinking

485
00:47:49,727 --> 00:47:57,668
about it very clearly. And I'm really happy with it. Like I am as a, as a customer, like I am happy

486
00:47:57,668 --> 00:48:04,648
with it. It feels good. It does not put any pressure on my family. Another kind of funny

487
00:48:04,648 --> 00:48:11,287
thing about what we hear in people's treasure maps that should make people think honestly is

488
00:48:11,287 --> 00:48:18,327
including my own, everybody's treasure maps include some names of like trusted helpers,

489
00:48:18,327 --> 00:48:25,967
right you know contact this person like here's the instructions here's the treasure map but also

490
00:48:25,967 --> 00:48:32,367
if you can't figure it out contact this person and people do tell us who their person is

491
00:48:32,367 --> 00:48:38,387
regularly and the thing is is the entire plebiverse

492
00:48:38,387 --> 00:48:46,327
are appointing at the same like five people i'm not kidding i'm not really yes really

493
00:48:46,327 --> 00:48:51,787
that's kind of my i mean please actually like don't say who it is yeah i'm not gonna say i'm

494
00:48:51,787 --> 00:48:58,387
not gonna say but like it is the same people again and again and again and again and if you

495
00:48:58,387 --> 00:49:05,487
told me who used i would not be shocked if it was one of these five people do those people like no

496
00:49:05,487 --> 00:49:09,847
do they like know that all these people are putting their names down or is that just i think

497
00:49:09,847 --> 00:49:17,688
it's mixed. I think it's mixed. I think they, all the names are people I would personally trust.

498
00:49:18,487 --> 00:49:25,967
Right. And whether they knew I had put their name down or not, uh, I am confident they would

499
00:49:25,967 --> 00:49:36,007
give help to my family. Right. Rob, Rob gets pinged regularly. Uh, he has this year helped

500
00:49:36,007 --> 00:49:42,668
multiple people, not through the lens of Anchor Watch, just individuals where, I mean, tragically,

501
00:49:43,207 --> 00:49:49,287
their beneficiaries reached out. One of them was like an individual themselves. The other one was

502
00:49:49,287 --> 00:49:59,107
attorneys. And just saying like, hey, you know, my husband died and we had, I have this information

503
00:49:59,107 --> 00:50:05,047
and I don't know what to do with it. Can you help? And more or less handed over information to Rob

504
00:50:05,047 --> 00:50:11,668
that like were Rob a bad actor, you know, he could have just stolen the Bitcoin, right?

505
00:50:12,227 --> 00:50:15,188
I mean, obviously he's an incredibly high integrity person.

506
00:50:15,188 --> 00:50:17,087
So he just helped them.

507
00:50:17,227 --> 00:50:20,947
And then similarly with the lawyers, they reached out and were like,

508
00:50:21,007 --> 00:50:23,947
hey, we're trying to recover assets for a family.

509
00:50:24,407 --> 00:50:25,907
Tragically, they lost their son.

510
00:50:26,907 --> 00:50:30,987
We have this information, you know, lots of letters and numbers

511
00:50:30,987 --> 00:50:34,707
and from, you know, from a few different pieces of paper.

512
00:50:34,707 --> 00:50:36,887
and we're trying to make sense of it.

513
00:50:38,067 --> 00:50:38,707
You know, so...

514
00:50:39,787 --> 00:50:44,367
And so anyway, these five people, yeah.

515
00:50:44,648 --> 00:50:48,327
I mean, it's good that there are high-trust individuals

516
00:50:48,327 --> 00:50:51,527
in the community, but like, God forbid,

517
00:50:52,107 --> 00:50:56,387
an explosion happens at a Bitcoin conference

518
00:50:56,387 --> 00:50:57,707
because literally...

519
00:50:57,707 --> 00:50:58,168
Knock on wood for your own.

520
00:50:58,467 --> 00:50:59,487
Yeah, for real.

521
00:50:59,487 --> 00:51:03,967
It's literally everybody's safe helper.

522
00:51:05,807 --> 00:51:06,527
Yeah.

523
00:51:06,648 --> 00:51:13,127
So anyway, we feel really good about our procedures and the foolproof nature.

524
00:51:13,507 --> 00:51:18,027
And it just takes a lot of the trust out of it.

525
00:51:18,087 --> 00:51:25,807
And it just makes it very predicted and documented and legal and all of those things.

526
00:51:25,807 --> 00:51:35,487
And so this process or the inheritance protocol that you guys have, this runs alongside or like in tandem with the insurance policy as well?

527
00:51:35,627 --> 00:51:35,827
Totally.

528
00:51:36,227 --> 00:51:37,787
You need to have both, I assume.

529
00:51:37,967 --> 00:51:38,787
Or you need to have insurance.

530
00:51:38,787 --> 00:51:40,607
Well, the insurance protocol is just included.

531
00:51:41,107 --> 00:51:42,567
It's just the way we run our business.

532
00:51:42,567 --> 00:51:42,827
Okay, okay.

533
00:51:42,827 --> 00:51:42,847
It's part of the package.

534
00:51:42,847 --> 00:51:44,247
So it's not an extra fee.

535
00:51:44,587 --> 00:51:45,587
It's nothing.

536
00:51:45,827 --> 00:51:55,267
It's just that is when you work with Anchor Watch, you are getting custody services and insurance against loss, right?

537
00:51:55,267 --> 00:52:02,487
If it's a covered loss, so a wrench attack, I mean, any sort of physical events, right?

538
00:52:02,587 --> 00:52:11,907
Like if a tornado hit one signing device and a hurricane hit another one, because we do require the three devices to be not in the same location.

539
00:52:12,907 --> 00:52:20,807
And so dispersed keys mitigate many physical risks, just like they do with self-custody multisig.

540
00:52:21,387 --> 00:52:22,668
But it's covered, right?

541
00:52:22,668 --> 00:52:31,027
If one of those kind of freak accidents, house fire in the same time as a whatever, it does cover all that.

542
00:52:31,507 --> 00:52:38,947
But it covers wrench attacks, which is unfortunately quite a growing concern for every wrench attack.

543
00:52:38,947 --> 00:52:39,827
Especially in France.

544
00:52:40,247 --> 00:52:41,827
A lot of wrench attacks in France.

545
00:52:41,827 --> 00:52:42,227
Right now, yeah.

546
00:52:42,327 --> 00:52:49,347
I mean, that's definitely the current hot spot for sure for the last 90 days for sure.

547
00:52:50,188 --> 00:52:51,347
But they're all over.

548
00:52:51,347 --> 00:52:55,967
And for everyone that you read on the list, right?

549
00:52:55,967 --> 00:53:00,067
Like Jameson's list is a really comprehensive one.

550
00:53:00,067 --> 00:53:02,787
So, you know, a lot of people are very familiar with that.

551
00:53:03,067 --> 00:53:07,327
Jameson public like tweets whenever a new one comes through, which I think is a great

552
00:53:07,327 --> 00:53:09,407
service to everybody.

553
00:53:10,107 --> 00:53:35,295
But for everyone that makes the list there is a significant more that don right Often that are successful like because the idea is like let say somebody held you up kidnapped you whether you an individual or a company executive and successfully stole some Bitcoin

554
00:53:35,295 --> 00:53:40,315
A lot of people like they very actively don't want that to become public information.

555
00:53:40,455 --> 00:53:41,975
I don't mean because of like embarrassment.

556
00:53:42,295 --> 00:53:45,795
I mean, because then it's just telling more people that you still have Bitcoin.

557
00:53:46,235 --> 00:53:46,715
Right.

558
00:53:46,735 --> 00:53:47,795
And you're a soft target.

559
00:53:48,115 --> 00:53:48,775
And you're yeah.

560
00:53:48,815 --> 00:53:50,175
And you're a successful target.

561
00:53:50,175 --> 00:53:50,535
Right.

562
00:53:51,195 --> 00:54:00,075
So for privacy reasons, a lot of people, if if it's possible to keep out of the media, they absolutely do keep out of the media.

563
00:54:00,075 --> 00:54:05,135
So there is unfortunately we just started selling K&R.

564
00:54:05,295 --> 00:54:08,155
which is Kidnap and Ransom as well.

565
00:54:08,395 --> 00:54:10,955
So we haven't actually even started advertising that yet.

566
00:54:11,015 --> 00:54:12,315
I can tell you a little bit about it.

567
00:54:12,315 --> 00:54:19,315
But what that means, Kidnap and Ransom and our wrench attack policy cover different things,

568
00:54:19,655 --> 00:54:22,475
which I'll get into.

569
00:54:22,655 --> 00:54:30,435
But if you have reason to be concerned that you are at a higher risk of being wrench attacked,

570
00:54:30,695 --> 00:54:33,635
you really should have both policies, and I'll explain why.

571
00:54:33,635 --> 00:54:44,495
But because we're doing kidnap and ransom now, K&R for short, we get some access to information in terms of frequency and stuff.

572
00:54:44,575 --> 00:54:47,515
And all I would say is that, yeah, wrench attacks are real.

573
00:54:47,775 --> 00:54:49,835
It's a real threat for real.

574
00:54:50,795 --> 00:54:52,795
And also with more than a wrench.

575
00:54:53,815 --> 00:54:56,935
But usually they don't actually have a wrench.

576
00:54:57,015 --> 00:54:58,475
They've got perhaps something worse.

577
00:54:58,795 --> 00:54:59,595
Right, right.

578
00:54:59,595 --> 00:55:04,895
And I mean, the ones that are the current trend is that they do violence quickly.

579
00:55:05,555 --> 00:55:05,695
Right.

580
00:55:05,735 --> 00:55:16,955
So it used to be in the U.S. and Europe, you know, kidnaps and ransom events did happen, but they tended to be a little bit of like gentleman's warfare.

581
00:55:17,955 --> 00:55:23,535
They weren't actually like hurting the people and or even treating them that badly.

582
00:55:23,535 --> 00:55:24,055
Right.

583
00:55:24,055 --> 00:55:32,235
But a lot of these is they're going more towards tactics that were more common in like South America during drug cartel stuff.

584
00:55:32,235 --> 00:55:38,875
And like they're going straight to cutting off fingers or pulling out fingernails and like going straight to torture.

585
00:55:40,455 --> 00:55:48,315
At least like something really quickly to demonstrate to the family or the company that like, no, we're serious.

586
00:55:48,315 --> 00:55:49,835
Like we will do this.

587
00:55:49,835 --> 00:55:55,035
And so, yeah, it's a real thing, unfortunately.

588
00:55:55,295 --> 00:56:18,895
So the difference between kidnap and ransom and our wrench attack policy, and we may in the future actually combine these into one comprehensive policy, but we're still working on that because we want to keep costs really manageable, especially if you're not, if you're like really pleb or your OPSEC is excellent and like nobody even knows that you have it.

589
00:56:18,895 --> 00:56:24,215
then like maybe just, you know, using our standard plan is maybe better for you.

590
00:56:25,195 --> 00:56:32,015
What generally, though, the difference between the two is that our policy covers the stolen Bitcoin itself.

591
00:56:32,595 --> 00:56:40,535
Right. So if the gun is to somebody said your head, my head, recovery partner said any heads, guns, your children's heads.

592
00:56:40,535 --> 00:56:45,775
Right. So and the and the result is that your Bitcoin is stolen.

593
00:56:45,775 --> 00:56:50,275
They force all of us to sign transactions and steal the Bitcoin.

594
00:56:50,455 --> 00:56:51,615
That's covered by our policy.

595
00:56:52,375 --> 00:57:00,035
What our policy does not cover, but a kidnap and ransom policy does cover, is a ransom payment.

596
00:57:00,935 --> 00:57:13,135
So, you know, guns are to the same combination of heads, whatever it may be, and they demand that your family collect $5 million in cash, right?

597
00:57:13,135 --> 00:57:17,735
that $5 million can be covered by a kidnap and ransom policy.

598
00:57:17,875 --> 00:57:22,915
So actually your Bitcoin, maybe you became a target because they knew you had Bitcoin.

599
00:57:23,355 --> 00:57:28,755
But if ultimately the money sent is collected from elsewhere, that's a kidnap and ransom.

600
00:57:28,895 --> 00:57:35,255
The other things that KNR covers, and especially for companies, this is very, very important.

601
00:57:36,415 --> 00:57:39,555
It's the actual professional hostage negotiators.

602
00:57:39,555 --> 00:57:51,215
So if you had a kidnapping situation in your family, you know, or we can go farther away from home, but whatever.

603
00:57:51,375 --> 00:57:57,775
So if somebody had a kidnapping ransom situation and they didn't have K&R, more or less you'd call 911, right?

604
00:57:57,855 --> 00:57:59,355
Like that's what you do.

605
00:57:59,475 --> 00:58:07,475
And then you're working with first your local, maybe they will call in the FBI, and you're kind of going through that process.

606
00:58:07,475 --> 00:58:22,555
But if you wanted like real professional hostage negotiators, like former CIA, like this is what they do, then you want to engage one of these top notch firms that do just that.

607
00:58:22,955 --> 00:58:28,455
And so then you'd be like Googling them, being like chat GPT or like who is the very best?

608
00:58:28,795 --> 00:58:29,955
How much does it cost?

609
00:58:30,035 --> 00:58:33,915
Can you do a cost analysis between the top ones?

610
00:58:33,915 --> 00:58:37,795
And then you see their cost and you're like, oh, my God, like that's more than the ransom.

611
00:58:38,355 --> 00:58:40,655
Like, like, how am I going to pay for that?

612
00:58:40,895 --> 00:58:43,875
But they're not going to start work until you've paid a retainer.

613
00:58:44,155 --> 00:58:46,115
And so then you're like, are they even good?

614
00:58:46,215 --> 00:58:48,275
So now I'm sending them six figures.

615
00:58:49,535 --> 00:58:53,215
And like, let's hope that they're actually who Google tells me they are.

616
00:58:53,315 --> 00:58:55,075
Like, it's not great.

617
00:58:55,075 --> 00:58:55,395
Right.

618
00:58:55,535 --> 00:59:00,555
So but when you have a K&R policy, the insurers and our K&R policy is also Lloyd's.

619
00:59:00,555 --> 00:59:09,495
So the insurers already have the top hostage negotiating firms on retainer.

620
00:59:09,495 --> 00:59:19,415
So as soon as a kidnap occurs, along with 911, you would call us more or less and we would kick off that.

621
00:59:19,555 --> 00:59:25,275
And immediately the hostage negotiators would be on the job working alongside law enforcement.

622
00:59:25,515 --> 00:59:26,655
They would be coordinating.

623
00:59:26,655 --> 00:59:32,935
They're taking more or less everything off the family or the company's responsibility, and they're taking on that responsibility.

624
00:59:33,775 --> 00:59:39,575
And so, yes, the policy also covers the cost of that, which can be very significant.

625
00:59:40,315 --> 00:59:43,655
But it's also just the speed and the access and the professionalism.

626
00:59:44,655 --> 00:59:54,555
And then there's additional benefits like, you know, there's some mental health and like those kind of benefits that a K&R policy provides that like after the event.

627
00:59:54,555 --> 01:00:01,275
Um, you know, there's things like that, but really, really it's the, the cost of the hostage

628
01:00:01,275 --> 01:00:07,915
negotiators, their services, um, being immediate, like immediate, immediate, and then the cost of

629
01:00:07,915 --> 01:00:12,515
a ransom as well. So let me ask you, cause obviously like, uh, kidnapping and ransomware

630
01:00:12,515 --> 01:00:17,255
or, uh, she's not ransomware, ransom insurance. That that's not necessarily like a new thing.

631
01:00:17,255 --> 01:00:21,755
Like that's something that's been, you know, around in terms of the, like the wrench attack

632
01:00:21,755 --> 01:00:29,875
policy, is that somewhat of a new paradigm just given that it hasn't necessarily been like in the

633
01:00:29,875 --> 01:00:34,635
fiat banking system, it's a little bit different if you want to, you know, if you're trying to $5

634
01:00:34,635 --> 01:00:38,535
wrench attack somebody like, you know, okay, give me the money and you're safe or whatever. But like,

635
01:00:38,535 --> 01:00:42,695
if you've got a, you know, distributed multi-sig and, you know, somebody gets a hold of, you know,

636
01:00:42,695 --> 01:00:47,195
two of three or whatever, like, is that an, did you guys basically have to craft a new type of

637
01:00:47,195 --> 01:00:56,615
approach for this policy. Yes, we did. So yeah, this exact kind of coverage was new from us. And

638
01:00:56,615 --> 01:01:03,595
so we absolutely did. We wrote the policy. And that's part of the duration that it took us to

639
01:01:03,595 --> 01:01:10,195
get to market was we really, really had to work with actuaries to kind of hone in on this risk

640
01:01:10,195 --> 01:01:16,055
and show them how well we mitigate it, right? You know, like it will be really hard for somebody

641
01:01:16,055 --> 01:01:22,515
to successfully pull off a wrench attack on an anchor watch customer and get away with it at the

642
01:01:22,515 --> 01:01:28,815
same time. You know, so we have all sorts of, I won't go into the details for customer safety,

643
01:01:28,815 --> 01:01:38,015
but we definitely have lots of roadblocks built in to stretch out the process. So even if guns

644
01:01:38,015 --> 01:01:44,295
are to heads, that like we can slow it down, right? We can give law enforcement the opportunity

645
01:01:44,295 --> 01:01:50,675
to get in. So what we hope is that over time, as our reputation builds, that just being an

646
01:01:50,675 --> 01:01:57,175
AnchorWatch customer, we will never disclose who our customers are, right? Like we protect their

647
01:01:57,175 --> 01:02:02,655
OPSEC, but already some customers choose to just share it. They're like, yeah, I use AnchorWatch.

648
01:02:02,995 --> 01:02:09,595
Like, don't try it. Like I'm a terrible target. Like they slow it down. Yeah. Like it would be

649
01:02:09,595 --> 01:02:15,335
really hard for you to get something. And then even if they do, even if like, you know, all the

650
01:02:15,335 --> 01:02:23,715
guns are everywhere and like the Bitcoin gets sent, the way insurance works is the stole, once we pay

651
01:02:23,715 --> 01:02:31,375
the customer. So let's say that happened. Your Bitcoin was stolen. You survive. We, you file an

652
01:02:31,375 --> 01:02:37,455
insurance claim. We make you whole minus the deductible. So you walk away. You've been taken

653
01:02:37,455 --> 01:02:42,735
care of. You can take your benefit payment, go to the exchange, rebuy Bitcoin with that payment.

654
01:02:43,775 --> 01:02:51,935
That stolen Bitcoin is our property. And that's not unique for us. That's just the way insurance

655
01:02:51,935 --> 01:02:57,955
works. If your Picasso was stolen and we paid you out $5 million for your stolen Picasso,

656
01:02:58,555 --> 01:03:03,555
the painting itself is the property of the insurance company. And so that's why then the

657
01:03:03,555 --> 01:03:10,855
insurance company has incentive to hire PIs to go on the underground art market and try to find

658
01:03:10,855 --> 01:03:17,475
that Picasso. And even if it takes 10 years, when they recover it, it's theirs and they can recoup

659
01:03:17,475 --> 01:03:22,735
some of their losses. Right. And so the Bitcoin, the stolen Bitcoin is the same. Once it's been

660
01:03:22,735 --> 01:03:28,735
stolen and we took care of our customer, they're done. That stolen Bitcoin belongs to us and we are

661
01:03:28,735 --> 01:03:34,935
motivated, now we're in a forced huddle, right? So even if we don't recover it quickly, it's,

662
01:03:35,475 --> 01:03:41,715
look, we are only more and more motivated to recover it over time, because it's going up in

663
01:03:41,715 --> 01:03:48,975
value. And so eventually, I mean, we see this again and again, eventually the thieves mess up,

664
01:03:49,475 --> 01:03:54,695
right? They'll make a mistake. And it might be years later, like the Bitfinex hack, right?

665
01:03:54,695 --> 01:04:02,375
it might be years later, but by the time we recover it, it's worth way more. And so again,

666
01:04:02,455 --> 01:04:06,575
it goes to why AnchorWatch customers are a terrible target, because we're going to hunt

667
01:04:06,575 --> 01:04:15,175
you down forever. Like, I am going to hunt you down forever. If the AnchorWatch got acquired,

668
01:04:15,175 --> 01:04:20,915
the new company is going to hunt you down forever, because it's your assets on your

669
01:04:20,915 --> 01:04:25,835
balance sheet and we're just being like, I'd like to get that back, you know, and you're going to

670
01:04:25,835 --> 01:04:32,175
take every, every way you can. So, um, so that's, that's super interesting too, just because,

671
01:04:32,175 --> 01:04:39,795
I mean, with an asset like Bitcoin, uh, you know, it is appreciating rapidly as it, you know,

672
01:04:40,015 --> 01:04:45,435
demonetizes everything else. You will get really incentivized to, you know, if you wait a couple

673
01:04:45,435 --> 01:04:49,895
of, you know, epochs for, for, to catch these thieves, it's like, dang, like, okay, we actually

674
01:04:49,895 --> 01:04:52,355
They ended up like making some money on this deal.

675
01:04:52,515 --> 01:04:53,535
Like when all is said and done,

676
01:04:53,575 --> 01:04:54,275
like that's kind of like,

677
01:04:54,675 --> 01:04:56,555
it's a bit of a paradigm shift though, right?

678
01:04:56,615 --> 01:04:57,815
Like that's, I mean, sure.

679
01:04:57,855 --> 01:05:00,115
A Picasso is also going to appreciate and value

680
01:05:00,115 --> 01:05:01,695
because fiat's devaluing,

681
01:05:01,775 --> 01:05:03,855
but like Bitcoin is just the fastest,

682
01:05:04,155 --> 01:05:05,135
you know, fastest horse.

683
01:05:05,395 --> 01:05:08,395
Yeah. I mean, I think the Picasso is a good analogy

684
01:05:08,395 --> 01:05:09,615
because I mean, same deal.

685
01:05:09,615 --> 01:05:11,515
Like people invest in art

686
01:05:11,515 --> 01:05:13,775
because it does continue to appreciate.

687
01:05:14,015 --> 01:05:15,535
That's why wealthy people do it.

688
01:05:16,195 --> 01:05:17,555
And yeah, the premise is there.

689
01:05:17,795 --> 01:05:19,755
And for sure, this is the fastest horse.

690
01:05:19,895 --> 01:05:45,375
And it just increases our motivation to hunt the thieves down. So if you are a thief, choosing your target, you're going to choose true, pure, old school self custody, uninsured. Like those are your perfect target, because they're going to be most vulnerable. The gun to the head is going to work the head, the gun to your baby's head, it's going to work. Like it will work.

691
01:05:45,375 --> 01:05:51,995
Um, but somebody that has a more complicated, you know, even within self custody, but like

692
01:05:51,995 --> 01:05:55,135
get your multi-sig away from yourself, right?

693
01:05:55,555 --> 01:05:59,215
Like get the other wallets that, that even if you agree, right?

694
01:05:59,235 --> 01:06:02,295
Like, bro, like do not shoot my child.

695
01:06:02,295 --> 01:06:04,595
Like I w I will do whatever you want.

696
01:06:05,035 --> 01:06:05,515
Okay.

697
01:06:05,515 --> 01:06:07,995
We need to fly to New Jersey, right?

698
01:06:08,035 --> 01:06:11,095
Like it makes it harder, right?

699
01:06:11,195 --> 01:06:12,215
Do that stuff.

700
01:06:12,495 --> 01:06:12,935
Yeah.

701
01:06:12,935 --> 01:06:17,475
If you're not going to don't, if you don't want to use anchor watch, no problem, but make it harder.

702
01:06:18,355 --> 01:06:19,075
Well, that's the thing.

703
01:06:19,195 --> 01:06:26,775
Like you should, you should never be able to, uh, like actually completely sign a Bitcoin transaction from whatever your location is.

704
01:06:26,775 --> 01:06:27,115
Totally.

705
01:06:27,435 --> 01:06:28,595
Like with, okay.

706
01:06:28,755 --> 01:06:29,195
It's too easy.

707
01:06:29,595 --> 01:06:30,415
Your lightning wallet.

708
01:06:30,595 --> 01:06:30,715
Sure.

709
01:06:30,775 --> 01:06:42,755
With, you know, a few hundred bucks that you have on it, but like for whatever you are actually saving for the long haul, like it, uh, it would take a very long time for me to sign any Bitcoin transactions.

710
01:06:42,935 --> 01:06:46,475
Not that I even have any Bitcoin guys at a terrible boating accident a while ago.

711
01:06:46,995 --> 01:06:53,975
But if I did, it would be literally impossible for I would have to without revealing as much.

712
01:06:53,995 --> 01:06:54,715
Yeah, don't go into details.

713
01:06:54,855 --> 01:06:55,895
But yeah, you've made it hard.

714
01:06:55,915 --> 01:06:58,475
There are many keys and they are very difficult to get to.

715
01:06:58,655 --> 01:07:00,775
And I can't do anything from right here.

716
01:07:00,835 --> 01:07:01,855
It doesn't matter what you do to me.

717
01:07:02,015 --> 01:07:02,815
And so like, you know.

718
01:07:03,035 --> 01:07:04,595
But people are stupid too.

719
01:07:04,775 --> 01:07:09,295
So if I tell them like, well, I have a geographically distributed multi-sig with, you know, this many.

720
01:07:09,415 --> 01:07:10,895
They're like, like, I don't care.

721
01:07:10,895 --> 01:07:14,175
I heard you have the bitcoins because you got a podcast with it's called tick

722
01:07:14,175 --> 01:07:17,975
coins. So give me the, give me your bitty coins. And it's like, but I mean,

723
01:07:18,075 --> 01:07:21,915
I guess you can't really fix for human stupidity when it comes to.

724
01:07:22,175 --> 01:07:28,775
The thing is, is people need to think about the breadth of possible

725
01:07:28,775 --> 01:07:31,875
thieves too. Right. So people will say like, well,

726
01:07:31,875 --> 01:07:35,515
I have a passphrase and I have, I have a decoy wallet and I'm like, cool.

727
01:07:35,615 --> 01:07:40,815
A decoy wallet with 500 bucks on it would be enough if you're being held

728
01:07:40,815 --> 01:07:48,195
by held up by a meth head, you'd be like, here, here, you can have it. You can have it. Like,

729
01:07:48,635 --> 01:07:52,355
and they're like, sweet, 500 bucks. And you're like, and they might like pistol whip you,

730
01:07:52,455 --> 01:07:56,835
but they'll still leave with the 500 bucks probably. And so then you're like, well,

731
01:07:56,835 --> 01:08:03,355
what is the right amount on a decoy wallet? Is it 500 bucks? Or like, well, probably not if it's

732
01:08:03,355 --> 01:08:10,075
going to be somebody smart, smarter. Is it 5,000 bucks? And then you start getting up to the point

733
01:08:10,075 --> 01:08:15,235
that like now you just have a serious sum and on a single sig in your house again and so it's like

734
01:08:15,235 --> 01:08:21,635
if you decide the safe number is 25 000 bucks like now you just have 25 000 bucks sitting on

735
01:08:21,635 --> 01:08:27,335
a single sig like does that feel good right and then if it's a sophisticated thief fairly

736
01:08:27,335 --> 01:08:33,215
sophisticated then they understand multi-sig and they understand having to go around um

737
01:08:33,215 --> 01:08:40,035
and if it's a highly sophisticated thief like then that right so it's like you really have to

738
01:08:40,035 --> 01:08:59,955
And so ultimately, we determined that the only true solution, true solution to a wrench attack is insurance. Because even when you get to the point that you're like, look, because we've definitely had customers say that they have opted to use either multi-institutional custody or a sole custodian.

739
01:08:59,955 --> 01:09:02,855
and they're like, look, I know there's counterparty risk.

740
01:09:03,374 --> 01:09:07,374
I just don't want the kidnapping risk in my home.

741
01:09:07,755 --> 01:09:08,635
I don't want it there.

742
01:09:08,874 --> 01:09:11,175
And the problem with that is that it doesn't matter.

743
01:09:11,595 --> 01:09:14,135
Because if they came knowing that you have Bitcoin

744
01:09:14,135 --> 01:09:17,095
and you're like, I have zero keys, I can do nothing.

745
01:09:17,475 --> 01:09:19,355
They're like, you can make a phone call though.

746
01:09:20,695 --> 01:09:23,255
You can call your custodian and be like,

747
01:09:23,775 --> 01:09:26,055
boys, there's a gun to my head right now.

748
01:09:26,755 --> 01:09:28,895
I need you to send my Bitcoin right now

749
01:09:28,895 --> 01:09:29,855
or they're going to shoot me.

750
01:09:29,955 --> 01:09:32,395
And they're going to be like, oh, we have procedures.

751
01:09:32,595 --> 01:09:33,655
And you're like, no, for real.

752
01:09:34,075 --> 01:09:35,055
You have my permission.

753
01:09:35,555 --> 01:09:36,755
They are going to shoot me.

754
01:09:37,155 --> 01:09:37,695
Send the Bitcoin.

755
01:09:38,295 --> 01:09:38,515
Right?

756
01:09:38,895 --> 01:09:39,874
They're going to send the Bitcoin.

757
01:09:40,675 --> 01:09:40,855
Right?

758
01:09:40,975 --> 01:09:43,135
So, like, the insurance needs to be there.

759
01:09:43,135 --> 01:09:44,515
Whether whomever.

760
01:09:44,874 --> 01:09:53,055
Like, if we're talking wrench attacks, like, this is a case where old school insurance serves a very important purpose.

761
01:09:54,055 --> 01:09:56,515
Good old fiat insurance.

762
01:09:56,815 --> 01:09:58,495
But now it's not fiat insurance.

763
01:09:58,635 --> 01:09:59,374
It's Bitcoin insurance.

764
01:09:59,374 --> 01:10:01,015
So wait, can we talk about that though?

765
01:10:01,355 --> 01:10:01,595
Please.

766
01:10:02,155 --> 01:10:02,374
Okay.

767
01:10:02,555 --> 01:10:06,615
So this is denominated in the insurance policies are denominated in fiat.

768
01:10:07,015 --> 01:10:09,595
They are paid out in fiat as well.

769
01:10:09,755 --> 01:10:10,035
That's right.

770
01:10:10,175 --> 01:10:10,475
Presumably.

771
01:10:10,675 --> 01:10:12,755
And I know you said they were new every year.

772
01:10:12,935 --> 01:10:15,255
Like you need to, you get a new policy every year.

773
01:10:15,315 --> 01:10:15,475
Yep.

774
01:10:16,155 --> 01:10:19,715
So presumably the drift, I mean, unless Bitcoin, like, you know,

775
01:10:20,255 --> 01:10:23,735
Omega candles a few times, like, which who knows.

776
01:10:24,055 --> 01:10:26,315
But like, hopefully the drift isn't too much,

777
01:10:26,315 --> 01:10:27,575
but can you talk about that?

778
01:10:27,575 --> 01:10:33,895
how that works right now, if there is significant drift from the fiat value of the policy versus the

779
01:10:33,895 --> 01:10:39,315
fiat value of the Bitcoin, and then maybe we can get into how might that actually be able to change

780
01:10:39,315 --> 01:10:44,355
in the future with Bitcoin denominated. So one thing to clarify about our current policy,

781
01:10:44,495 --> 01:10:51,315
so they're definitely denominated in dollars. So let's just pretend Bitcoin is 100,000 now instead

782
01:10:51,315 --> 01:10:59,035
of 106.1. But so if you buy, if you have around 10 Bitcoin, you buy a million dollar policy

783
01:10:59,035 --> 01:11:05,495
for full coverage. But I first I want to just clarify, with Anchor Watch, you buy as much

784
01:11:05,495 --> 01:11:13,415
insurance as you want. So again, probably 90% of our customers are buying, maybe 85% are buying

785
01:11:13,415 --> 01:11:18,735
very close to one to one insurance. So that's part of the reason they came to us is they wanted

786
01:11:18,735 --> 01:11:23,975
insured and maybe they're segregating their stacks. They have a non-KYC stack, not with

787
01:11:23,975 --> 01:11:29,435
Anchor Watch, but then they're like super extra safe. I cannot die and have this be lost and I

788
01:11:29,435 --> 01:11:35,875
want it protected from all the risks. That's their Anchor Watch stack. So, but they don't have to.

789
01:11:35,995 --> 01:11:40,415
So if you had say 5 million and you're like, look, I love the inheritance protocol,

790
01:11:40,415 --> 01:11:52,095
the security model, the vault model, I love. I want enough insurance that I know that there would be

791
01:11:52,095 --> 01:11:58,075
a million, like no matter what happens, no matter all the different scenarios. So if the wrench

792
01:11:58,075 --> 01:12:05,355
attack happens, like my family, like we will not have less than a million. Okay. So then that's

793
01:12:05,355 --> 01:12:10,695
totally fine. So they can use us for 5 million and the custody fee, which is two bips per month,

794
01:12:11,255 --> 01:12:20,015
two basis points or 0.02%. That is on the vault value, super competitive pricing on that. And then

795
01:12:20,015 --> 01:12:23,975
you buy as much insurance as you want. So if you want a million dollars, you buy a million dollars.

796
01:12:23,975 --> 01:12:29,815
If you want the full 5 million, you buy a full 5 million. And so that way, like, especially if

797
01:12:29,815 --> 01:12:32,195
it's totally a personal decision.

798
01:12:32,675 --> 01:12:34,015
If you're very cost conscious,

799
01:12:34,475 --> 01:12:35,975
then you can underinsure

800
01:12:35,975 --> 01:12:37,195
and we don't require,

801
01:12:37,295 --> 01:12:38,695
a lot of insurance requires you

802
01:12:38,695 --> 01:12:40,735
to insure 80% of the value.

803
01:12:41,035 --> 01:12:42,735
We decided not to do that

804
01:12:42,735 --> 01:12:43,935
because we weren't trying to like

805
01:12:43,935 --> 01:12:45,495
force Bitcoiners into it.

806
01:12:45,555 --> 01:12:47,195
We just, we want it there as an option.

807
01:12:47,455 --> 01:12:49,175
So you could do, you know,

808
01:12:49,215 --> 01:12:50,995
if you bought a 1 million policy

809
01:12:50,995 --> 01:12:52,455
on 5 million of insurance,

810
01:12:52,455 --> 01:12:54,055
that's only 20% insured,

811
01:12:54,195 --> 01:12:55,035
but we allow that.

812
01:12:55,995 --> 01:12:57,135
And, you know,

813
01:12:57,135 --> 01:12:58,255
or you could buy 3 million

814
01:12:58,255 --> 01:12:59,395
or the full 5 million.

815
01:12:59,395 --> 01:13:08,415
So then the way the price action works is it really is you have bought a limit of value on your insurance policy.

816
01:13:08,575 --> 01:13:11,715
So I always do use the Picasso as the best example.

817
01:13:11,895 --> 01:13:13,055
So let's say you buy a Picasso.

818
01:13:13,635 --> 01:13:14,535
It's a million dollars.

819
01:13:14,735 --> 01:13:15,815
That's what it was appraised at.

820
01:13:15,875 --> 01:13:16,855
That's what you paid for it.

821
01:13:17,274 --> 01:13:19,355
And you buy a million dollar insurance policy.

822
01:13:19,455 --> 01:13:24,555
But this year the art market is super hot and it's a one-year policy.

823
01:13:24,555 --> 01:13:29,875
but like you know maybe you throw a lot of dinner parties and like people know that you have this

824
01:13:29,875 --> 01:13:35,755
Picasso in the house and like the art market and Picasso's had a really great year and halfway

825
01:13:35,755 --> 01:13:40,415
through the year it's it's a two and a half million dollar painting but you only paid for a million

826
01:13:40,415 --> 01:13:45,575
dollar insurance policy you just call your insurance dude that's it like you're just like hey

827
01:13:45,575 --> 01:13:51,875
um art market been on fire this year I want to increase my limit on the Picasso to two and a

828
01:13:51,875 --> 01:13:57,695
half million. And they're like, boop, boop, boop. Okay, they send you an invoice for the prorated

829
01:13:57,695 --> 01:14:03,335
increase limit for the balance of the year. And you just pay it. And now you have a two and a half

830
01:14:03,335 --> 01:14:08,395
million dollar policy. And so then when you get to the end of the year, then let's say now the

831
01:14:08,395 --> 01:14:12,815
prices have stabilized, then it would just be like, are we sticking there two and a half million? And

832
01:14:12,815 --> 01:14:18,155
you'd be like, yep, that's good for this coming year. And so the one year insurance policy, if we

833
01:14:18,155 --> 01:14:25,095
went shorter, what happens is like, we have to have you sign the vault, right? So it's like,

834
01:14:25,115 --> 01:14:31,555
we could do one month policies, which allows you to really easily, like each time we reprice the

835
01:14:31,555 --> 01:14:37,315
insurance to the value of your Bitcoin, but it does mean you'd have to sign a transaction every

836
01:14:37,315 --> 01:14:44,535
month because we, you know, so there's downsides doing that. So we thought annually it was a good,

837
01:14:44,535 --> 01:14:50,455
just in terms of friction and that you have to go retrieve your keys.

838
01:14:51,095 --> 01:14:52,855
That was a good amount of time.

839
01:14:53,555 --> 01:14:59,695
And again, if you really feel uncomfortable becoming underinsured during a bull run year,

840
01:15:00,135 --> 01:15:03,955
you know, it's just a quick phone call, like a few minutes and you can just increase it.

841
01:15:04,555 --> 01:15:08,335
Is there risk on the other side of that for you guys in like a bear market year?

842
01:15:08,335 --> 01:15:11,295
Bitcoin takes a 70% haircut.

843
01:15:11,295 --> 01:15:16,435
But like does – how does that work out for you guys as the ones offering these policies?

844
01:15:16,435 --> 01:15:25,795
Well, it does mean that we expect to have less revenue and barriers, right?

845
01:15:27,115 --> 01:15:29,795
So we have set up – I mean how we hire.

846
01:15:31,035 --> 01:15:36,215
We don't overhire during bull runs so we don't have to lay people off.

847
01:15:36,335 --> 01:15:39,795
So we just built a business that's able to withstand that.

848
01:15:39,795 --> 01:15:46,795
that and we plan our financials really conservatively to allow for that kind of

849
01:15:46,795 --> 01:15:52,295
fluctuation. But I mean, you know, we're Bitcoiners, so, you know, you zoom out and

850
01:15:52,295 --> 01:15:59,035
things are going up anyway. So like we're very pleased, I think, on the overall trajectory of

851
01:15:59,035 --> 01:16:04,215
the business. And despite those volatile years, we'll be able to weather that just fine.

852
01:16:05,255 --> 01:16:09,155
And then can you talk about like, OK, so that's the current state of things. Is there a future

853
01:16:09,155 --> 01:16:11,955
where Bitcoin-denominated policies may be a reality?

854
01:16:12,075 --> 01:16:13,975
And how far off is that future?

855
01:16:14,435 --> 01:16:15,575
And is that better?

856
01:16:16,255 --> 01:16:19,895
Because I would think a gut reaction, but maybe not.

857
01:16:19,935 --> 01:16:22,075
Yeah, I think it depends on who you are.

858
01:16:22,255 --> 01:16:23,835
So yes, that will come.

859
01:16:24,355 --> 01:16:27,595
There's a few things that are holding back,

860
01:16:28,215 --> 01:16:30,975
at least Anchor Watch, from having started that way.

861
01:16:31,774 --> 01:16:35,495
So first off, insurance like fiat, the regulations.

862
01:16:35,495 --> 01:16:57,875
Bitcoin is not allowed as an admitted asset, meaning the insurance company who, in our case, Lloyd's, but an insurance company that holds the capital in reserve, right, has the fiat there to convince regulators that if our customers have a loss, we will be able to afford to pay them out and uphold our financial obligations.

863
01:16:57,875 --> 01:17:14,835
So regulators end up determining what fractional amount, because insurance is fractional, so what ratio of reserve to value insured they have to have based on the riskiness of the collection of policies.

864
01:17:15,835 --> 01:17:21,295
That pile of reserve, there's different ways to value it.

865
01:17:21,375 --> 01:17:24,155
So if it's cash, it's one-to-one, right?

866
01:17:24,155 --> 01:17:27,435
If it's dollars, you get a dollar of credit for every.

867
01:17:27,774 --> 01:17:32,535
If it's equities, you get less credit.

868
01:17:33,055 --> 01:17:34,215
I don't remember the exact number.

869
01:17:34,335 --> 01:17:36,335
Maybe it's 70% or something like that.

870
01:17:36,415 --> 01:17:39,495
So they're allowed to invest the float.

871
01:17:39,875 --> 01:17:41,095
That's what that's called.

872
01:17:41,815 --> 01:17:47,735
But the more that it's not cash, the more that impairs them and the more that they have to put in there.

873
01:17:48,255 --> 01:17:48,435
Right.

874
01:17:49,375 --> 01:17:51,415
And so regulators play a role in that.

875
01:17:51,415 --> 01:17:55,655
Bitcoin is currently a non-admitted asset, which means they get zero credit.

876
01:17:56,335 --> 01:18:01,595
So if they put a million dollars of Bitcoin in their reserve, the regulators view that as zero.

877
01:18:02,175 --> 01:18:10,195
And so for every dollar of Bitcoin that they put in there, they also have to put a dollar of fiat just to get credit for doing it.

878
01:18:10,195 --> 01:18:17,615
And so, so far, the insurance companies have not been interested to do that because it impairs their profitability by 50 percent.

879
01:18:18,455 --> 01:18:21,274
So insurance is a capital market.

880
01:18:21,415 --> 01:18:26,175
they put their money where they're gonna, where they think they'll make money. It's they're just

881
01:18:26,175 --> 01:18:32,535
bankers. And so if they're like, okay, we could do this Bitcoin thing, but it's going to cost us

882
01:18:32,535 --> 01:18:39,495
twice as much to do it. I'm just not going to do it. I'm going to give the dollars to this other

883
01:18:39,495 --> 01:18:47,495
interesting insurance startup doing wildfire focused coverage, where at least like it's a,

884
01:18:47,495 --> 01:18:53,235
I know what I have to reserve. So that's one of the things that's holding back the industry. And

885
01:18:53,235 --> 01:18:57,235
so we're advocating. Yeah. Yeah. Just a quick question on that. So is that, I mean, that sounds

886
01:18:57,235 --> 01:19:03,235
like the exact same situation as with SAB 121. It's very, very similar. But it's just, but it's

887
01:19:03,235 --> 01:19:08,155
not controlled. Like the insurance industry is completely separate from the banking industry in

888
01:19:08,155 --> 01:19:13,815
that regard. Okay. Yes. But it's basically, it's the exact same premise. Exactly. Yes. So we're

889
01:19:13,815 --> 01:19:19,995
advocating, you know, we're doing what we can to try to change that. The difference is that

890
01:19:19,995 --> 01:19:26,315
insurance is regulated at the state level. So you would have to convince all the states,

891
01:19:26,315 --> 01:19:30,795
but then the states look to the National Association of Insurance Commissioners for

892
01:19:30,795 --> 01:19:38,935
guidance. And then, so it's like, currently, the NAIC is not even considering changing the status

893
01:19:38,935 --> 01:20:05,902
of Bitcoin And so it like how do we get them to consider at least And you know maybe that through the state So if enough states are going to the to the NAIC and saying like hey hey why can we do this Or why isn this part of your guidance But it a long road right So at the moment a lot of people a lot of companies were advocating for Saab 121 right

894
01:20:05,902 --> 01:20:12,722
there's not that many advocating for a change in insurance right so we're doing our part we're

895
01:20:12,722 --> 01:20:18,902
so then is it better um it's better for some things i mean it's better that you don't have

896
01:20:18,902 --> 01:20:24,222
to do that math every year so now what it means is that you have to pay your premiums in bitcoin

897
01:20:24,222 --> 01:20:32,422
so that may have implications for some people um that you would have to think um

898
01:20:32,422 --> 01:20:41,422
I mean, it's better in that, you know, if you're forget the world on a Bitcoin standard, that's I'm not even going to like address that.

899
01:20:41,582 --> 01:20:44,062
That's not going to be the next five years that I'm focused on. Right.

900
01:20:44,482 --> 01:20:50,382
But like, let's say you operate on a Bitcoin standard, or at least that's how you approach value.

901
01:20:50,782 --> 01:21:00,362
You know, then a Bitcoin denominated policy is going to be great because, you know, you paid in the amount of sats you paid in and you know that if you have a loss, what you're going to get back out.

902
01:21:00,362 --> 01:21:04,522
And if you're super bullish, that's exciting.

903
01:21:06,462 --> 01:21:16,322
Who it can be worse for is, you know, people who don't want to sell their Bitcoin to pay their insurance premium.

904
01:21:16,602 --> 01:21:18,542
They still have a job, right?

905
01:21:18,542 --> 01:21:31,542
And so there comes a point that I think people could say, look, as the value goes up and I'm becoming like crazy wealthy, do I want to insure all of it or am I going to insure a portion of it?

906
01:21:31,542 --> 01:21:50,822
Because until the world is on a Bitcoin standard, even a whale, well, actually anybody, but especially a company, if you're thinking about a company trying to like their books are still in dollars and they need a predictable expense on insurance.

907
01:21:50,822 --> 01:22:04,342
Right. And so let's say, you know, when you bought the insurance policy to cover the business treasury, let's say the cost of that policy was, you know, it's a company.

908
01:22:04,442 --> 01:22:09,082
Let's say it's a good chunk of Bitcoin. You know, the cost of the policy was $80,000.

909
01:22:09,882 --> 01:22:15,782
OK, they're like, cool. Annual insurance expense on our Bitcoin, $80,000.

910
01:22:15,782 --> 01:22:23,542
the next year you know if they want the same amount of insurance like you know maybe the

911
01:22:23,542 --> 01:22:28,602
rates change slightly but the next year they're like eighty three thousand dollars predictable

912
01:22:28,602 --> 01:22:35,022
good and that's what it costs them when you start paying and in sats then you're like

913
01:22:35,022 --> 01:22:40,742
well let's even talk about as a pleb right so let's say you paid your for your insurance policy

914
01:22:40,742 --> 01:22:46,862
and in sats, but the dollar equivalent was 5,000.

915
01:22:47,302 --> 01:22:49,322
And you're like, okay, that's fine.

916
01:22:50,322 --> 01:22:57,262
Halfway through the year, Bitcoin in a bull year did a 10x, right?

917
01:22:57,742 --> 01:23:02,302
You already paid the sats, but now you're looking at it and you're like,

918
01:23:02,682 --> 01:23:06,822
I paid 50 grand of insurance this year.

919
01:23:07,162 --> 01:23:08,802
Was that my intention?

920
01:23:08,802 --> 01:23:10,302
And maybe it was, right?

921
01:23:10,302 --> 01:23:11,702
Like maybe you're like, yeah, I get that.

922
01:23:11,942 --> 01:23:13,042
I understand math.

923
01:23:13,042 --> 01:23:14,422
Like I get that.

924
01:23:14,802 --> 01:23:25,042
But maybe you're like, actually, no, I didn't want to lock up 50 grand worth of Satoshis for my family's insurance budget this year.

925
01:23:25,042 --> 01:23:25,862
Like maybe.

926
01:23:26,202 --> 01:23:26,502
Right.

927
01:23:26,622 --> 01:23:28,962
So it's a personal decision.

928
01:23:29,202 --> 01:23:29,382
Yeah.

929
01:23:29,382 --> 01:23:36,262
I think even when we start offering it and there's ways to offer it without it being an admitted asset.

930
01:23:36,442 --> 01:23:37,522
So we can do it offshore.

931
01:23:37,842 --> 01:23:39,102
We could do it in Bermuda.

932
01:23:39,102 --> 01:24:00,702
We have a Bermuda entity. And the difference, though, is that it will not be underwritten by Lloyds of London. So because they are an admitted carrier and they're going to fall. They're the ones who will. So any legacy insurer, fiat insurer is going to care about about this admitted asset.

933
01:24:00,702 --> 01:24:09,402
If we did it out of Bermuda, what we would do is we would raise the Bitcoin and then we would actually just be backing it ourselves.

934
01:24:10,082 --> 01:24:14,882
Right. So instead of Lloyd's being on the hook financially, Anchor Watch would be on the hook financially.

935
01:24:15,262 --> 01:24:19,682
How can we do that? Even though we're a small company, we did it by raising the Bitcoin.

936
01:24:20,322 --> 01:24:24,962
So I would go out to the industry and this will happen, by the way, like this is the plan.

937
01:24:24,962 --> 01:24:32,542
I'm it's no secret. And the Bitcoin treasury companies are like ready, like getting the Bitcoin because it's interesting.

938
01:24:32,702 --> 01:24:35,882
Yeah. So it gets really interesting and exciting for me.

939
01:24:35,962 --> 01:24:40,642
Like this is one of the reasons we built this company is to build towards this vision.

940
01:24:41,282 --> 01:24:50,642
So what would happen is I would say, OK, treasury companies, OK, micro strategy, OK, others who have a lot of Bitcoin.

941
01:24:50,642 --> 01:24:56,662
I now need a lot of Bitcoin and it's going to underwrite insurance risk.

942
01:24:56,962 --> 01:24:59,122
It's not going to be rehypothecated.

943
01:24:59,342 --> 01:25:00,942
It's just going to sit there in reserve.

944
01:25:01,322 --> 01:25:02,782
It's insuring custody.

945
01:25:03,422 --> 01:25:05,002
The custody is very secure.

946
01:25:05,342 --> 01:25:05,802
It's safe.

947
01:25:06,482 --> 01:25:07,502
It's not risk free.

948
01:25:07,942 --> 01:25:08,142
Right.

949
01:25:08,222 --> 01:25:10,082
These various perils still happen.

950
01:25:11,102 --> 01:25:14,622
And but it is safe risk.

951
01:25:14,622 --> 01:25:15,102
Right.

952
01:25:15,142 --> 01:25:20,562
It's predictable risk, unlike rehypothecation risk, which is the main way that people

953
01:25:20,562 --> 01:25:26,862
lend out Bitcoin right now. So if you're lending out one Bitcoin and getting back more than one

954
01:25:26,862 --> 01:25:33,362
Bitcoin, generally the way that's happening is it's being traded, right, out the back. And then

955
01:25:33,362 --> 01:25:39,162
they're making more money trading other assets or doing option strategy or whatever they're doing,

956
01:25:40,062 --> 01:25:44,262
hoping that it doesn't blow up. And then they're giving you back a percent. They're like, okay,

957
01:25:44,262 --> 01:25:50,802
hey, thanks for letting us borrow that Bitcoin. Here's 1.025 Bitcoin. And so you made two and a

958
01:25:50,802 --> 01:25:57,542
half percent. Hope they didn't lose it in the interim, right? For two and a half percent yield.

959
01:25:57,542 --> 01:26:03,522
So with insurance risk, we'd be able to say like, hey, what if we could give you better returns,

960
01:26:03,522 --> 01:26:08,022
but lower risk? Because we're not trading out the back. You know exactly where it's going.

961
01:26:08,022 --> 01:26:32,422
Here's our loss history. Here's how it's being held. And we'll give you X percent yield for lending us the Bitcoin to sit in that reserve pool. And that'll be super exciting because all of a sudden there's a new yield opportunity. And so then when Alan Farrington is like, where did the yield come from? We're like, we'll tell you exactly where the yield came from. It came from insurance premiums, right?

962
01:26:32,422 --> 01:26:49,782
Like, it's no mystery. It's not shady. It's not rehypothecated. It's not confusing. We charge insurance premiums, and we take a portion of those premiums, and we pay investors to give us reserves.

963
01:26:50,702 --> 01:26:59,242
And so it'll be really fun when we do flip the switch, because it means that Anchor Watch now all of a sudden is the arbiter of yield, right?

964
01:26:59,762 --> 01:27:06,822
There's this misconception that whoever has the most Bitcoin gets to be the reinsurer of the world, right?

965
01:27:06,862 --> 01:27:09,122
The Berkshire of Bitcoin.

966
01:27:09,442 --> 01:27:14,942
And I'm like, no, I actually can take the Bitcoin from who I want to work with, right?

967
01:27:15,062 --> 01:27:18,882
Like I'm the one who developed the insurance product.

968
01:27:18,882 --> 01:27:23,802
I'm the one that's selling the insurance product. I'm the one that's raising the insurance link

969
01:27:23,802 --> 01:27:31,182
security. I can choose who gets to put that Bitcoin in the reserve pool. So of course,

970
01:27:31,182 --> 01:27:36,162
the terms are going to matter, right? So who's giving me, who's charging me the least,

971
01:27:36,582 --> 01:27:43,022
who's willing to take the lowest yield, maybe the most favorable duration. So the terms are

972
01:27:43,022 --> 01:27:48,862
going to matter. But also, who do I like working with? Who is high trust? Like who is a high

973
01:27:48,862 --> 01:27:55,222
integrity company or individual. And, you know, like we're also going to diversify the risk in

974
01:27:55,222 --> 01:28:02,042
that, right? So it won't just be one entity. We'll take it from multiple entities so that

975
01:28:02,042 --> 01:28:09,742
even the reserve pool is diversified. But it's very doable. The other reason that,

976
01:28:10,082 --> 01:28:15,162
so we didn't do that initially for a couple of reasons. One, because it was very clear

977
01:28:15,162 --> 01:28:21,302
in talking to the market that the Lloyds of London name is super important. Like having an A plus

978
01:28:21,302 --> 01:28:27,162
rated carrier actually underwriting this risk is very, very important. And since we're a small

979
01:28:27,162 --> 01:28:33,322
startup, you know, Rob and myself have a good reputation and are well known in our little,

980
01:28:33,422 --> 01:28:38,722
our little circle. But once you start getting out to commercial and all these new treasury companies

981
01:28:38,722 --> 01:28:45,982
and stuff, they don't know who we are, right? And the idea of like, putting all your trust in a

982
01:28:45,982 --> 01:28:53,242
startup that, I mean, even if you do know who we are, like, you still like, you still want the A

983
01:28:53,242 --> 01:29:00,422
plus rating of like a very well known insurer. So we thought it was much better to start building

984
01:29:00,422 --> 01:29:06,722
this market on an A rated carrier with a lot of trust, where you can feel absolutely confident

985
01:29:06,722 --> 01:29:11,082
that you will be paid out if you have a loss.

986
01:29:11,682 --> 01:29:17,342
And over time, our reputation and comfort level will be building with that.

987
01:29:17,462 --> 01:29:22,442
So by the time we flip and now we utilize our Bermuda carrier

988
01:29:22,442 --> 01:29:28,482
and we ourselves are kind of the guarantee that we have built enough trust

989
01:29:28,482 --> 01:29:31,862
that customers are like, yeah, I get it.

990
01:29:32,022 --> 01:29:33,962
That's fine. I feel confident.

991
01:29:34,262 --> 01:29:36,202
And we'll probably run them both, right?

992
01:29:36,202 --> 01:29:40,822
Because there's still this predictability of expenses.

993
01:29:41,242 --> 01:29:48,402
And I suspect a lot of commercial businesses will prefer the fiat denomination.

994
01:29:48,942 --> 01:29:53,182
People who think more on a Bitcoin standard will prefer the Bitcoin denomination.

995
01:29:53,382 --> 01:29:54,062
And we'll do both.

996
01:29:54,442 --> 01:30:01,382
The last reason that we're holding off is because in order to pay the yield, there needs to be sufficient volume.

997
01:30:02,042 --> 01:30:02,122
Right.

998
01:30:02,122 --> 01:30:10,982
So if there's not enough premium being generated by selling insurance, then I don't have any – they're not going to make any money, right?

999
01:30:11,002 --> 01:30:11,102
Right.

1000
01:30:11,462 --> 01:30:14,602
And so we're taking a couple of years to build the market.

1001
01:30:14,802 --> 01:30:16,362
We're developing insurance products.

1002
01:30:16,622 --> 01:30:26,442
We're selling them and we're building that volume so that we'll judge the right time to make that switch or to start offering that.

1003
01:30:26,662 --> 01:30:27,102
And it will come.

1004
01:30:27,642 --> 01:30:29,842
Not too far off, but that's the threat.

1005
01:30:29,842 --> 01:30:38,062
Yeah, it's super interesting on the Bitcoin treasury company side, just in terms of like, obviously, they're going to want something to do with all of that Bitcoin they're accumulating.

1006
01:30:38,162 --> 01:30:38,902
Yeah, yeah.

1007
01:30:39,102 --> 01:30:45,942
And, you know, I'm also I'm going to have to clip out that part about Alan Farrington because, you know, I think I think he's going to love it.

1008
01:30:45,942 --> 01:30:49,582
And I'm sure he'll have some very Alan asked questions about that said yield.

1009
01:30:50,302 --> 01:30:52,982
But I love it.

1010
01:30:53,282 --> 01:30:56,942
One other thing we didn't get a chance to talk about yet, and I want to be conscious of your time here.

1011
01:30:56,942 --> 01:31:06,062
But if you have a couple more minutes, we didn't get a chance to touch on the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the being ordered to consider or to consider crypto, not just Bitcoin.

1012
01:31:06,062 --> 01:31:10,322
Let's let's be clear, but all of crypto as an asset when buying mortgages.

1013
01:31:10,522 --> 01:31:14,042
Yeah. Thoughts on that. I mean, kind of a massive shift.

1014
01:31:14,662 --> 01:31:19,282
Yeah. I mean, I think it's great for Bitcoiners like the details of it.

1015
01:31:20,002 --> 01:31:22,542
Like I think there's we can make some improvements.

1016
01:31:22,542 --> 01:31:27,122
But yeah, the concept is that they put out guidance, a letter.

1017
01:31:27,302 --> 01:31:28,122
So it's only guidance.

1018
01:31:28,322 --> 01:31:43,262
It's not a strict rule, but saying that you can consider crypto as part of a prospective mortgage customer as part of their assets to determine how much of a mortgage you're going to give.

1019
01:31:43,262 --> 01:31:56,262
Now, that's huge, right? Because a lot of people who, especially if their wealth is entirely in Bitcoin, maybe they've stopped a fiat job, or their wealth is way bigger than their fiat job.

1020
01:31:56,262 --> 01:32:05,202
Like maybe they're, you know, they're making what they make, and they're still working, but their W-2 income only gives them access to a mortgage this size.

1021
01:32:05,202 --> 01:32:11,702
They might have all this Bitcoin and like they couldn't it wasn't doing anything for them.

1022
01:32:11,782 --> 01:32:13,482
So they were actually held out of mortgages.

1023
01:32:13,602 --> 01:32:19,782
And so a lot of wealthy Bitcoiners, the only way they can buy homes is to sell Bitcoin and sell it and pay in cash.

1024
01:32:20,942 --> 01:32:22,402
And so this is a huge change.

1025
01:32:22,402 --> 01:32:23,482
It's super beneficial.

1026
01:32:23,742 --> 01:32:28,442
I was super excited about it on a personal level and for Anchor Watch as well.

1027
01:32:28,442 --> 01:32:39,122
So the part on the details that I think still has opportunity is that it says that it needs to be held at a centralized exchange.

1028
01:32:39,962 --> 01:32:41,802
That was the wording and the guidance.

1029
01:32:41,802 --> 01:32:50,162
So you can consider crypto as an asset as long as it's held at a regulated exchange, regulated centralized exchange.

1030
01:32:50,722 --> 01:32:58,122
And my opinion on that is more or less that politely I say they have a developing understanding.

1031
01:32:58,442 --> 01:33:10,182
of the options to hold Bitcoin and do so in a way that gives the bank the assurances they need.

1032
01:33:10,582 --> 01:33:14,802
So, I mean, one reason I say it that way, that I think it's a developing understanding,

1033
01:33:15,142 --> 01:33:21,462
is it's a strange thing to say exchange versus even a custodian, right?

1034
01:33:21,642 --> 01:33:26,882
Like you could at least say like if it needs to be at a centralized exchange or custodian,

1035
01:33:26,882 --> 01:33:32,322
because there are definitely reputable custodians who are not also exchanges, right?

1036
01:33:33,862 --> 01:33:36,782
And at least there you see where they're getting at.

1037
01:33:37,402 --> 01:33:40,602
What they're saying is the same thing that insurers said to us,

1038
01:33:40,602 --> 01:33:47,902
which is, hey, we're willing to do this if we feel confident that you, an institution,

1039
01:33:48,282 --> 01:33:50,902
are also participating in this custody.

1040
01:33:51,122 --> 01:33:53,002
And as long as that, then we'll do the insurance.

1041
01:33:53,142 --> 01:33:56,202
If it's the customer only, we're just not comfortable yet.

1042
01:33:56,202 --> 01:34:01,822
maybe in the future, but not yet. And so I view this letter as kind of being the same thing where

1043
01:34:01,822 --> 01:34:06,702
they're saying, look, we'll, we'll view it as collateral, but we just, not if the customer is

1044
01:34:06,702 --> 01:34:11,482
holding themselves, we don't understand that well enough. Like it needs to be like at a company that

1045
01:34:11,482 --> 01:34:17,982
we can go audit and like things like that. So exchange or custodian would make more sense,

1046
01:34:17,982 --> 01:34:28,282
at least for their purposes. We are already working to insure private loans already. So

1047
01:34:28,282 --> 01:34:34,442
we have customers who had made an arrangement, say, with their local bank, and the bank agreed

1048
01:34:34,442 --> 01:34:41,162
to give them a Bitcoin back loan as long as it was insured. And so we were able to go on a one

1049
01:34:41,162 --> 01:34:49,582
by one basis and work with that client and their bank and ultimately show them how the custody works.

1050
01:34:50,442 --> 01:34:59,742
You know, in some case, the bank is holding keys themselves. Right. Yep. Yeah. And, you know,

1051
01:34:59,742 --> 01:35:05,582
we've been able to demonstrate that with the bank and put insurance on it. And that was one of the

1052
01:35:05,582 --> 01:35:10,962
early theses of BankerWatch too, is like, okay, in the future, we think this is going to happen.

1053
01:35:11,462 --> 01:35:16,022
So it's fun when it's a good feeling to have skated to where the puck is headed, right?

1054
01:35:16,382 --> 01:35:16,962
Nice to be right.

1055
01:35:17,382 --> 01:35:20,762
It is. It's very satisfying. And I think the Bitcoin yields,

1056
01:35:21,222 --> 01:35:25,662
insurance yield is our other main thesis. And both of them are coming together nicely.

1057
01:35:27,042 --> 01:35:34,462
But, you know, so we always said that, look, a bank will let you mortgage a house,

1058
01:35:34,462 --> 01:35:39,742
but they will not let you take ownership of that house until there's insurance on it.

1059
01:35:39,802 --> 01:35:40,562
Not even for a day.

1060
01:35:40,642 --> 01:35:42,502
It's a thing that you have to do at closing, right?

1061
01:35:42,522 --> 01:35:43,962
To show that it has insurance.

1062
01:35:44,402 --> 01:35:51,102
And so we just figured that when banks finally do get into providing loans, they will want

1063
01:35:51,102 --> 01:35:54,262
insurance on it and we're going to make it available.

1064
01:35:54,262 --> 01:35:59,682
And so on these private loans that we've done, that was very much that came to pass where

1065
01:35:59,682 --> 01:36:01,202
the banks are like, all right, we'll do it.

1066
01:36:01,242 --> 01:36:02,882
But like, I don't get it.

1067
01:36:02,882 --> 01:36:18,542
And so I need to know that it's insured. Cool. So in terms of the Freddie Fannie guidance, we are kind of dual pathing how we approach it.

1068
01:36:18,542 --> 01:36:27,122
So on one side, we're just saying, look, the spirit of the letter, with the spirit of the letter, we already provide what the bank needs.

1069
01:36:27,262 --> 01:36:33,602
And we have existing loans that prove that banks are willing to do it, which is saying, look, we have proof of assets.

1070
01:36:33,862 --> 01:36:36,302
You can pull it as often as you want.

1071
01:36:36,642 --> 01:36:40,022
The customer, while insured, can't move it unilaterally.

1072
01:36:40,022 --> 01:36:46,522
So they can't rug the bank and just remove the assets because Anchor Watch has to sign.

1073
01:36:46,522 --> 01:36:54,182
And like at the beginning of the show, I described the proof of assets that you can request at any time.

1074
01:36:54,642 --> 01:36:58,342
If the customer wants or the bank wants, we can do that ourselves.

1075
01:36:58,882 --> 01:37:01,622
Certify it, like sign it and seal it.

1076
01:37:02,062 --> 01:37:03,462
Send it certified mail.

1077
01:37:03,742 --> 01:37:04,642
We could do that monthly.

1078
01:37:04,922 --> 01:37:07,482
You know, whatever the bank needs.

1079
01:37:07,782 --> 01:37:13,822
We say like, look, the spirit of the letter, we already fully are giving you what you need.

1080
01:37:13,822 --> 01:37:39,862
And so I think then that's up to a given bank officer, right? Because again, it's guidance only. So it's up to a specific loan officer if they're comfortable with that. And we're just doing our best to provide everything that's possible to make them feel comfortable. At the same time, we're also just going to meet the letter of the non-law as well. And so we'll just become an exchange.

1081
01:37:39,862 --> 01:37:47,382
oh okay so both two two prong approach uh i like it yeah it's huge though it's huge it's really good

1082
01:37:47,382 --> 01:37:52,102
for bitcoiners really good it's it's great to see because it's like bitcoiners like a lot of them

1083
01:37:52,102 --> 01:37:55,702
especially if they you know they've been around for a while like i haven't been around that long

1084
01:37:55,702 --> 01:37:59,302
but like folks that have been around even longer it's like they may have accumulated a lot of

1085
01:37:59,302 --> 01:38:04,122
bitcoin that has a very high fiat value but it's like somewhat trapped and they either sell off

1086
01:38:04,122 --> 01:38:08,982
some and pay a bunch of capital gains tax which is like okay you're getting like kicked twice you

1087
01:38:08,982 --> 01:38:13,102
know, but now it's like, there's a, there's another solution to that. And you can actually

1088
01:38:13,102 --> 01:38:18,662
like, as it should be like, this is money. This is the best asset that's out there in the world.

1089
01:38:19,062 --> 01:38:24,222
It's finally starting to be recognized as such. Like, I'm, I'm not sure if I were a loan officer,

1090
01:38:24,222 --> 01:38:28,622
which I'm not, if I'd be like, yeah, no, we'll definitely take that, that Solana you have.

1091
01:38:28,942 --> 01:38:32,422
And we'll, we'll like give you a loan against that. Like that might be a little bit shakier,

1092
01:38:32,422 --> 01:38:37,622
but, but Bitcoin, that's a, that's a different animal. Yeah. Well, especially a mortgage is a

1093
01:38:37,622 --> 01:38:43,542
long-term loan. And so, I mean, if a lot of the Bitcoin back loans that you can get are really

1094
01:38:43,542 --> 01:38:49,942
short term, right? So it's like, it really is in a way, it's almost like a trading strategy,

1095
01:38:50,142 --> 01:38:55,842
kind of, right? So it's like based, if it's only a one-year loan, like you're like, all right,

1096
01:38:56,362 --> 01:39:03,822
the rates are really high on those. Maybe it's 10%, but if I do it now, I will more than have

1097
01:39:03,822 --> 01:39:05,702
saved that 10%.

1098
01:39:06,382 --> 01:39:07,342
So like

1099
01:39:07,342 --> 01:39:09,682
the current Bitcoin back

1100
01:39:09,682 --> 01:39:11,762
loan environment is a short

1101
01:39:11,762 --> 01:39:13,922
term one. And so in that case

1102
01:39:13,922 --> 01:39:15,762
like maybe a bank wouldn't

1103
01:39:15,762 --> 01:39:17,682
look at it that differently from

1104
01:39:17,682 --> 01:39:20,002
an altcoin because it's short duration.

1105
01:39:20,582 --> 01:39:21,742
But when you

1106
01:39:21,742 --> 01:39:23,182
are talking about a mortgage,

1107
01:39:24,102 --> 01:39:25,662
you know, it's long duration and there's

1108
01:39:25,662 --> 01:39:27,722
obviously like Bitcoin has

1109
01:39:27,722 --> 01:39:29,822
proven how it behaves in the long run.

1110
01:39:29,922 --> 01:39:31,242
It's volatile in a given year

1111
01:39:31,242 --> 01:39:33,122
but it's not volatile

1112
01:39:33,122 --> 01:39:40,122
when you zoom all the way out. And that should give banks a lot of peace of mind. And, you know,

1113
01:39:40,122 --> 01:39:46,062
there's companies doing really interesting blended things already, right? Like battery finance does,

1114
01:39:46,362 --> 01:39:52,222
you know, commercial loans blended with Bitcoin and has very straightforward, but clever ways of

1115
01:39:52,222 --> 01:39:57,862
sharing in that upside with the borrower. So, I mean, there's a lot of things happening in the

1116
01:39:57,862 --> 01:40:06,902
space to kind of bring together the fiat world, but start integrating Bitcoin into it in a way that

1117
01:40:06,902 --> 01:40:14,402
I just think is good for Bitcoiners because we live in a blended world already, right? Like there's

1118
01:40:14,402 --> 01:40:21,662
a few people who are living that Bitcoin life purely, but for the most of us, we're living in

1119
01:40:21,662 --> 01:40:27,523
both worlds at the same time. And so I think step one, or step wherever we are right now,

1120
01:40:27,942 --> 01:40:35,922
is like better integration of these. And then like over time, then, you know, the global

1121
01:40:35,922 --> 01:40:44,042
recognition of Bitcoin continues to grow and become stronger. And, you know, today, it might

1122
01:40:44,042 --> 01:40:50,762
be like the blend, whether it's battery finance, or, you know, an individual talking to their bank,

1123
01:40:50,762 --> 01:40:52,722
and what the bank is willing to recognize,

1124
01:40:52,902 --> 01:40:55,622
you know, it might be fiat and Bitcoin.

1125
01:40:55,922 --> 01:40:58,322
And they're like, okay, we're willing to let you

1126
01:40:58,322 --> 01:41:01,342
integrate this much Bitcoin into our consideration.

1127
01:41:01,702 --> 01:41:04,962
Over time, you know, these might switch, right?

1128
01:41:05,282 --> 01:41:07,502
And then, you know, maybe eventually

1129
01:41:07,502 --> 01:41:08,822
we get to a Bitcoin standard.

1130
01:41:08,982 --> 01:41:10,642
But, you know, for now we're here.

1131
01:41:11,222 --> 01:41:13,962
And I think it's a great start.

1132
01:41:14,122 --> 01:41:15,862
I think it's good for all of us.

1133
01:41:17,362 --> 01:41:18,882
I say amen to that.

1134
01:41:18,882 --> 01:41:22,742
Well, Becca, it's been a treat.

1135
01:41:23,242 --> 01:41:24,542
We covered a lot of ground.

1136
01:41:24,642 --> 01:41:28,802
Was there anything we did not get a chance to cover or did we do a pretty good job?

1137
01:41:28,922 --> 01:41:31,682
I mean, I think we did great.

1138
01:41:32,262 --> 01:41:34,582
I think so too, but I just wanted to get your opinion.

1139
01:41:35,102 --> 01:41:35,502
No, no, no.

1140
01:41:35,502 --> 01:41:36,023
Happy to.

1141
01:41:36,162 --> 01:41:39,122
I mean, happy to share if people want to get in touch.

1142
01:41:39,842 --> 01:41:40,302
Please do.

1143
01:41:40,682 --> 01:41:41,922
Send people wherever you want.

1144
01:41:42,282 --> 01:41:42,482
Yep.

1145
01:41:42,482 --> 01:41:48,862
So, I mean, we have anchorwatch.com and we have the anchorwatch handle on X on Twitter.

1146
01:41:48,882 --> 01:41:51,582
anybody can email me directly

1147
01:41:51,582 --> 01:41:53,142
Becca at Anchor Watch

1148
01:41:53,142 --> 01:41:55,662
or if you're just looking to open a policy

1149
01:41:55,662 --> 01:41:56,802
or get some more information

1150
01:41:56,802 --> 01:42:00,023
you can email me and I'll pass you to the right team

1151
01:42:00,023 --> 01:42:03,202
or email agent at anchorwatch.com

1152
01:42:03,202 --> 01:42:05,842
and that'll be the fastest way

1153
01:42:05,842 --> 01:42:07,642
the process super straightforward

1154
01:42:07,642 --> 01:42:09,523
generally we'd get on a call

1155
01:42:09,523 --> 01:42:12,402
and we'll walk through the custody model

1156
01:42:12,402 --> 01:42:14,023
answer any questions that you have

1157
01:42:14,023 --> 01:42:15,222
whether it's the custody

1158
01:42:15,222 --> 01:42:17,242
or the insurance policy

1159
01:42:17,242 --> 01:42:18,162
whatever it covers

1160
01:42:18,162 --> 01:42:24,902
exclusions, things like that. And generally within a 30 minute call, we can get through all that as

1161
01:42:24,902 --> 01:42:30,942
well as get you an accurate quote. So we have a few questions. You have some choices between like,

1162
01:42:31,002 --> 01:42:36,023
do you want that HODL discount, right? Are you intending to spend this Bitcoin this year? If not,

1163
01:42:36,562 --> 01:42:41,802
sign up for the HODL discount, save a bunch of money. You know, so we'll ask you a few questions.

1164
01:42:41,802 --> 01:42:43,082
It takes about five minutes.

1165
01:42:43,082 --> 01:42:49,942
And based on how you want to organize your security, we can give you an accurate rate

1166
01:42:49,942 --> 01:42:50,862
quote there on the call.

1167
01:42:51,262 --> 01:42:55,782
And then if you're happy with it, you want to move forward, you would just fill out an

1168
01:42:55,782 --> 01:42:56,822
insurance application.

1169
01:42:57,042 --> 01:42:58,442
It's 15 minutes.

1170
01:42:58,482 --> 01:43:00,242
It's just a standard insurance application.

1171
01:43:00,662 --> 01:43:01,402
Do that online.

1172
01:43:01,942 --> 01:43:06,182
And we will send you a welcome kit with factory sealed signing devices.

1173
01:43:06,842 --> 01:43:09,342
And the final step would be an onboarding call.

1174
01:43:09,342 --> 01:43:13,982
We walk you through setting up your private keys and getting your devices set up.

1175
01:43:14,142 --> 01:43:15,602
We give you a tour of the platform.

1176
01:43:16,182 --> 01:43:22,402
We do a test transaction once the vault is created, make sure that we can send and receive and everybody feels comfortable.

1177
01:43:22,722 --> 01:43:25,102
And at that point, we'll bind the insurance policy.

1178
01:43:25,762 --> 01:43:28,102
And then you have an empty but insured vault.

1179
01:43:28,422 --> 01:43:31,782
And at any point, you can then send your Bitcoin into the insured vault.

1180
01:43:31,962 --> 01:43:34,523
And so that's kind of the onboarding process for us.

1181
01:43:34,523 --> 01:43:42,962
And then the only other step is you need to get like a, you know, secured with ADT, but like you need your anchor watch thing to slap on the outside of people's houses.

1182
01:43:42,962 --> 01:43:45,862
Listen, if people want to decal, I will make decals.

1183
01:43:45,982 --> 01:43:47,122
I love making swag.

1184
01:43:47,442 --> 01:43:51,402
My first 10 years working were as an apparel merchant.

1185
01:43:51,602 --> 01:43:53,102
I was like a buyer, fashion buyer.

1186
01:43:53,942 --> 01:43:55,822
So our swag is top notch.

1187
01:43:55,842 --> 01:43:58,262
If people want to decal, I will make them a decal.

1188
01:43:58,422 --> 01:44:00,202
I can attest to the top notch swag.

1189
01:44:00,202 --> 01:44:07,202
The the y'all were giving out anchor watch wrenches at the Bitcoin conference in Vegas, which was amazing.

1190
01:44:08,202 --> 01:44:12,962
You know, it's funny. Security at the airport did not like Carla having that when she brought it back through.

1191
01:44:13,182 --> 01:44:15,523
But we made it we were able to keep it, which was good.

1192
01:44:15,622 --> 01:44:24,622
I'm glad. I'm glad. What I found out is, look, I've been carrying these around for like a year and a half and giving them out.

1193
01:44:24,622 --> 01:44:30,602
I've never had a problem, but at Vegas specifically, which is terrible timing because we gave out 700 of these things.

1194
01:44:32,762 --> 01:44:38,762
Multiple people at the Vegas airport did get stopped at security and they're like, is this a wrench?

1195
01:44:39,042 --> 01:44:40,762
And they literally like measure it.

1196
01:44:41,062 --> 01:44:47,023
And apparently you're not supposed to have tools that are longer than six inches.

1197
01:44:47,023 --> 01:44:49,662
And this obviously is 6.15 inches.

1198
01:44:50,062 --> 01:44:51,062
Wait, is it really?

1199
01:44:51,523 --> 01:44:52,882
I think it's six and a half.

1200
01:44:52,882 --> 01:44:55,102
But we'll go with 6.15.

1201
01:44:56,302 --> 01:45:02,442
And so technically, this is not supposed to go through TSA, which is very frustrating because we have a lot of them.

1202
01:45:02,962 --> 01:45:04,122
But we'll keep giving them out.

1203
01:45:04,342 --> 01:45:05,062
They're very popular.

1204
01:45:05,322 --> 01:45:07,382
Yeah, we had a good TSA agent that day, I guess.

1205
01:45:08,102 --> 01:45:08,242
Yeah.

1206
01:45:08,642 --> 01:45:10,222
Well, Rebecca, thanks so much.

1207
01:45:10,402 --> 01:45:11,642
Appreciate you sharing your time.

1208
01:45:11,962 --> 01:45:12,942
Love what you guys are building.

1209
01:45:13,462 --> 01:45:16,922
And looking forward to seeing what's coming down the pipe for you guys, too.

1210
01:45:17,042 --> 01:45:17,362
Awesome.

1211
01:45:17,782 --> 01:45:18,182
Thank you.

1212
01:45:18,282 --> 01:45:19,023
Thanks for having me on.

1213
01:45:19,062 --> 01:45:19,642
I had a great time.

1214
01:45:19,982 --> 01:45:20,302
Anytime.

1215
01:45:20,902 --> 01:45:21,182
All right.

1216
01:45:21,182 --> 01:45:21,942
All right.

1217
01:45:22,002 --> 01:45:22,322
I'm just kidding.

1218
01:45:22,882 --> 01:45:33,942
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin Talk episode from The Bitcoin Podcast.

1219
01:45:34,542 --> 01:45:38,523
Remember to subscribe to this podcast whether you're watching or listening

1220
01:45:38,523 --> 01:45:42,902
and share it with your friends, family, and strangers on the internet.

1221
01:45:42,902 --> 01:45:46,222
Find me on Noster at primal.net slash walker

1222
01:45:46,222 --> 01:45:49,542
and this podcast at primal.net slash titcoin.

1223
01:45:49,542 --> 01:45:53,362
On X, YouTube, and Rumble, just search AdWalker America.

1224
01:45:53,942 --> 01:45:57,922
And find this podcast on X and Instagram at Bitcoin Podcast.

1225
01:45:58,682 --> 01:46:00,922
And in the show notes to grab sponsor links,

1226
01:46:01,023 --> 01:46:05,722
head to substack.com slash AdWalker America to get episodes emailed to you.

1227
01:46:06,122 --> 01:46:09,523
And head to BitcoinPodcast.net for everything else.

1228
01:46:10,082 --> 01:46:13,642
Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant.

1229
01:46:13,642 --> 01:46:18,982
So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to The Bitcoin Podcast.

1230
01:46:19,542 --> 01:46:22,282
Until next time, stay free.