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The thing that makes me the most hopeful is all of the people that are waking up to what's going on in the world,

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and it's not just in Bitcoin, but it's everywhere now.

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There was a Palestinian Israeli protest the other day,

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and the Israeli side and the Palestinian side were both chanting,

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fuck Joe Biden. That's beautiful, man. That's America. They both hated the president for totally different reasons.

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I mean, come on. If that doesn't make you hopeful that the American spirit is still alive,

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you know, we're an unruly people. We're supposed to be unruly and free and dirty and unwashed and crass.

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That is the American ethic and ethos, live free, baby, or die. Okay?

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And whatever else comes up. Today, I have two guests returning to the show at the same time for episode 69 of the Bitcoin podcast,

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Preston Pish, an American hodl, or hodl. I love these dudes. They're great guys, and I know you're going to love this episode.

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It is a banger, as the kids say. If you're interested, go back and check out the original conversations I had with both these guys.

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You can find them linked in the show notes. The three of us covered a bunch of topics today because, frankly, there's a lot of shit going on right now.

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We talk about all the shit that's going on right now, and we also talk about why there are a lot of reasons to be hopeful.

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Before we dive in, just a heads up that you can find the links in the show notes for discounts on the Bitcoin only

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Bitbox 02 hardware wallet from Bitbox Swiss and on 5G SIM cards from Cloaked Wireless to protect you from SIM swap attacks.

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The promo code for both is Walker. If you'd rather watch this show, then listen, head to the show notes for links to watch on YouTube,

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Rumble, and now on Noster. But if you're like me and you prefer to just listen to the audio, I highly recommend you check out fountain.fm.

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Not only can you send Bitcoin to your favorite podcasters to give value for value, but you can earn Bitcoin just for listening to the show.

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And if you're already listening to the Bitcoin podcast on fountain, consider giving the show a boost or creating a clip of something you found interesting.

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I really appreciate it. Finally, if you are a Bitcoin only company interested in sponsoring another fucking Bitcoin podcast,

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hit me up on social media or through the website, BitcoinPodcast.net.

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Without further ado, let's get into this Bitcoin talk with Preston Pish and American hodl. HODL.

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Hello, welcome. This is a podcast. We're all here. Three of us. I've never done a three way podcast like this before.

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It's my first time. So I appreciate you guys both being here coming back on to another fucking Bitcoin podcast to join me for this auspicious moment.

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It's episode 69. So, uh, wow, could it be better?

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There's a really good Lonely Island song called Three Way.

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It's Walker's first time we promised to be gentle.

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Yeah. Well, thank you guys for that. I mean, you're so considerate, honestly.

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Well, well, I mean, you know, this, uh, this episode came about because somebody had put together a really nice mashup on Noister of,

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oh, you're, uh, one of your rants from the episode we recorded together and Preston, a recent show that you've done.

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I don't remember exactly which show it was, but it was a pretty sweet mashup and got me fired up.

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And I was like, what if they both came on at once? Like we're just, I mean, what would happen?

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What would be the results of that? So here we are today. Thank you both.

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Um, I'm stoked for this because there's a lot of, there's a lot of things going on right now.

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I was just actually like, I was making a list before this because I was like, let me,

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let me just figure out like all the things that have happened like in the last couple weeks alone.

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And I was going down and it was like, okay, yeah, Bitcoin having that. Yeah, that was nice.

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Um, Preston, I saw you were in El Salvador for that, which looked just lovely.

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Um, we had the FISA expansion of warrantless surveillance.

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Hooray. We had the samurai wallet creators indicted and arrested for all their whirlpooling.

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Hong Kong ETFs. Hooray. America sending billions more to fund foreign wars.

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Roger Vera arrested and charged with extort, I mean exit tax evasion, not extortion tax.

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Excuse me. Let's see Bitcoin 58K gang proved right yet again.

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Honestly, like these guys, they're seeing the future or something.

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Uh, the yen is trading like a shit coin.

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Coinbase finally integrates lightning.

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Yay, proof that bullying works.

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Uh, so keep bullying out there, which is also just amazing cause it's like,

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I've been told that lightning doesn't work and yet somehow coinbase integrated it.

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So it's like, how did that happen?

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Uh, sailor announced micro strategy orange.

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And, uh, I think there's a lot of interesting reactions to that that I've seen from people who,

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uh, don't understand that you can do whatever you want on Bitcoin.

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Uh, Yellen admits she's worried about the deficit.

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Powell gives a kind of a dovish press conference and my favorite quote from it was, he says,

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uh, like we, I don't see the stag or the flation with regard to stagflation,

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which is like about as funny of a joke as a corrupt central banker can make.

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Uh, let's see.

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Oh, it just a couple hours ago wasabi announced that they are blocking going to block us citizens

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and residents from visiting their websites and using their wallet and related products.

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And did I miss anything like, and that's just like the last couple of weeks.

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Uh, I think, I think I about rounded it up.

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But is there anything else to add to that list of shenanigans?

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No, not that I can think of.

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I would summarize based on everything you just said, I would summarize with the U S is getting very scared of payments.

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And it seems like, um, store of value with the approval of the ETFs and, and the legal precedence that was set there was almost

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like this moment where it's like, all right, we're not going to win the store of value, uh, battle.

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So now let's just point all of our energy towards payments.

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We cannot allow layer two payments to like take hold, like store of value is taken hold.

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And so like, I think that's the battleground at this point.

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I would say you could also summarize it as the regulatory clarity that everybody was looking for.

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It's here.

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It's here and it sucks.

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This is this is clear.

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Unfortunately, you know, it is interesting.

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Like, I mean, do you guys think that it's genuinely like a, uh, often in Bitcoin, we are Bitcoiners myself guilty as charged.

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We refer to like the they, the them, you know, the, the men behind the curtain, the central bankers, the bankers in general, the,

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you know, psychopaths or sociopaths in government, the ones pulling the strings.

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And, and sometimes it's easy to think that these things are very much, uh, different actions are concerted efforts like coordinated efforts,

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uh, conspiracy, if you will, in the literal definition of conspiracy.

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Oftentimes things just happen as far, uh, in terms of a coincidence.

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Do you think this is one of those times or does this feel like a genuinely concerted effort to throw like, there's just a lot of stuff seems to be happening all at once,

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like too much for coincidence.

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I think it's very coordinated.

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I think that, uh, the coordination is happening with Wall Street, large, large cap banks, the J.P. Morgan's, the, I mean, all the big ones.

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Um, and I think that, uh, at least against the, the payment side, um, because they're looking at it and they definitely understand,

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they understand maybe the government, you know, actors that are, that are implementing the things that they're paying them behind the scenes to, to, to do,

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um, might not deeply understand what's taking place.

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But I think that the, that the big bankers definitely understand how important not losing the payments front is for them to try to,

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uh, continue to have a stranglehold on, on the printing press and, uh, just what they've, they've benefited for, uh, for the last, you know, 100 years.

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So, um, I think that they are the ones that, uh, were behind, uh, Warren and the FinCen proposal that happened before Christmas and like all of those antics.

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If you think that that's like happening because these politicians are there, there's, there are actors with very deep pockets behind these politicians that are pushing them

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in these directions and trying to get them to, uh, orchestrate everything that you're seeing playing out.

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The problem that they're going to run into is with enough time, the technology is going to just continue to chip away at these, with these

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moats that they've had for all these, you know, since time immemorial.

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Um, and it's a losing battle.

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All they can do is just kind of slow it down though.

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And I think that what we're seeing with some of the, some of the stuff with FinCen and, and basically them trying to divide the payments into, uh, KYC, custodyed solutions versus non custodial solutions that don't require KYC is kind of the, the divide that you're seeing taking place right now.

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Um, is, uh, in the long run is not going to work.

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Like it's just not, it's not going to be competitive.

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Um, because it's, it's just good that technology is going to continue to chip away at it.

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Now it might take another decade more than what it would have, you know, and I don't know what the timeline is.

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I'm just throwing that out as a random number.

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What would have maybe been a three year thing is maybe a 10 year thing or whatever.

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It's just going to take that, that glide slope out further because they're battling it.

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But, um, maybe there's a case that, that maybe it accelerates it.

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I don't know.

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I'm curious with hodl things on it.

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Yeah.

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I think it feels coordinated as well.

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I mean, I think the, the ETFs really shook a lot of trees in, uh, in, in DC and on in New York.

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And basically people were like, holy shit, look at the popularity.

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Look at the demand for this.

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And, you know, I'd love to get press and thoughts on like, uh, the macro picture because, you know, like the

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stagflation point is interesting because it seems like there's a rush to close the exits, right?

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Before they do something.

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And I'm not really adept enough to know what that something is, but obviously Bitcoin is the

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biggest possible exit.

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And so, you know, they're right now, nothing has happened that actually like shuts Bitcoin off.

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Um, but, you know, especially like the on ramps and off ramps, but there's fear.

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They're, they're chumming the waters and they're creating a lot of fear surrounding Bitcoin.

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And if you're a casual person, uh, who, you know, has a retail brokerage account, you were possibly

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thinking about buying the ETFs or whatever and you're reading these headlines.

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It's like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

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And, you know, you would, I think a lot of people who are just casually, uh, browsing the newspaper,

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whatever would just go, yeah, I don't know if this is worth it.

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Something's going on here.

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I'm going to stay away for right now.

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And it seems like that's the intended effect, you know, which I think is totally by design for them to

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accumulate for those that are in the know of what's taking place here.

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That just gives them an opportunity to accumulate more.

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Um, but yeah, I mean, I agree with, with HODL.

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I think the, the macro backdrop is getting just fascinating.

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Uh, what's happening in Japan, uh, with the, with the yen devaluation, when you look at their credit

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markets, like, so when you look at the, the entire bond yield curve of, of Japanese bonds,

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um, I mean, it's selling off through levels that we haven't seen in decades.

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Um, and, uh, they're, they're just not able to get the inflation under control and nobody is.

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Um, and I think that when we look at Japan, it's kind of the canary in the coal mine because those

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were always the lowest rates.

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And, um, when, when you currency adjusted the, the yields for their bonds over there.

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So like they might be yielding something really low in Japan and you'd get a higher yield here in the U.S.

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But whenever you adjusted them for the, for the currency differences, they were actually kind of at par

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despite the yield differences that you were seeing.

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So when we're looking at that yield over in Japan and it's selling off, it's really kind of between

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that, the U.S., the UK, um, those are the, those are the markets that are really kind of driving the,

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the credit sell off and they just don't have it under control.

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And, um, if we start punching through, uh, lower lows in these credit markets after seeing the most

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disgusting bond sell off in over a century, um, let me tell you, that's going to be quite devastating

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from an impairment standpoint on all of this fiat that's in the system.

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And it's like, if you're a fixed income person and you're seeing even deeper selling off and something

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that's a century sized sell off bear market, um, that has the potential to really turn into cascading,

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uh, contagion really fast.

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And it's like, where, where does all that buying power go? So like, as people are pulling more and more

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resources and funds out of, out of this fixed income market, where does it go?

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It has to go into something that has some type of scarcity to it.

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So that's Bitcoin, that's gold, that's, uh, you know, commodities are really hard to do because of the

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supply and demand that's constantly fluctuating, but those prices are going to go higher.

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Any type of business equity wise that makes money that has some type of moat, it's going to get bid even more.

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Even if the PE is at 40 or 50, it's going to even get bid more because it represents some type of scarcity

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because they don't have to issue more shares.

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So like that's where all this buying power is going to go out of the fixed income.

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And when I'm looking at the thresholds that we're at, like we are pressing up on where we were at.

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I'd have to look at a chart, um, just to kind of give you an idea.

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So the, the sell off really kind of hit its peak, uh, in the October 2023 timeframe and, and where we're at right now,

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we're starting to get back to some of those, those lows right now.

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And if they punch through there's like those lows, like watch out and price wise, watch out, like it's, it's going to get really spicy.

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Um, yeah.

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And I think that I think we can totally see that by the end of the year.

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Yeah. And Preston, what does the, you know, financial repression scheme look like if that is the backdrop,

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let's say like six, eight months from now?

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Well, I think, uh, you know, Luke Roman's been beating the drum that the dollar is going to have to get devalued like immensely,

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uh, going into the end of the year.

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And when we look at the elections that are coming up, um, I tend to agree with them that like that's going to probably be the lever that they pull.

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They're going to devalue the dollar tremendously.

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And, uh, you know, that's usually a pretty good thing for Bitcoin when they're devaluing the dollar pretty hard.

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So, um, I would expect that well before we start getting into November.

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Um, so maybe, maybe a little bit of chaos between now and the beginning of the summer,

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but then I think once we get into the summer, you're going to see the dollar just get devalued like immensely.

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It almost seems to me like the feds game plan right now as much as they have a game plan ever is to kind of try and confuse markets a little bit.

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Like they're really trying to, it seems like not to not, you know, they don't want to quarry, you know, pre-choreograph their moves.

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They, they want people, you know, that's why Jerome Powell's wording.

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Like if you actually listen to the language and read those transcripts, it's, it's all just like it's nonsense.

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Like it's, it's just kind of like, well, we could do, we could go left, but we could also go right.

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And at the same time, we could stay right where we are.

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And you know, it's interesting, Walker.

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It's something that's on this the other day that like, um, Jerome Powell goes off script more than either of his previous two predecessors.

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So Yellen and Bernanke were both very on script and Powell goes off script in an attempt to jaw bone and financially manipulate the market.

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Right.

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And so the reason he's going off script is so that he can get those reactions.

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And that's why he's speaking out of both sides of his mouth, because he wants to see what the psychological reaction is going to be on the market.

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He wants to affect it in that manner.

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So Walker, what I would tell you is it's, it's actually a very astute observation that you have with respect to them.

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Just like creating almost like a, uh, it's almost like they're trying to cipher what the real message is so that people have no idea

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what they're going to actually do.

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But, but when it comes to push, shove, whatever, uh, you know, acronym or whatever, uh, catchphrase you want to use.

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Um, I think that when we look at the, that the election coming up and we just kind of look at the backdrop, we look at how sick the fixed income market is.

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They have to, they have to do something and they're going to have to, I think the only lever that they have left to pull is the currency.

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So I think they're saying all this stuff.

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I think it's just meaningless.

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I think it's just ciphering whatever the real message is so that people are not trying to act on it and trade it.

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And, um, it's so broke.

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Well, like we know it's, you know, and, and of course, uh, the Federal Reserve is a public private institution, which is naturally separate from our elected representatives and never at all influenced by them, nor do they do any influencing of their own.

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Of course.

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But Walker, you literally had Biden go out.

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This was like two, three weeks ago and he made the comment about how they were going to cut within, like, I've never, ever seen a president come out and even hint at such a thing.

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And this was literally an oppressed conference.

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So I mean, I actually, I did not see that.

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That's why.

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Yeah.

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This was like, this was like, I would say two or three weeks ago.

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Yeah.

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Zero.

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Oh man.

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This was, you know, sharing the clip all over Twitter and yeah.

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I must, I must have been on Noster that day.

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Um, but no, that's, that's honestly pretty incredible, but just like, to Powell, I mean, it's clear that again, he's trying to just obfuscate intentions as much as possible.

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Yep.

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But at the same time, even when you hear the, the people in the, you know, the press corps that are asking him questions, they're kind of like, well, you know, aren't you, aren't you maybe going to need to, to change some things here?

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And it's also funny because they, uh, there's a phrase that they, that they use all the time that Paul uses all the time.

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He says, we'll look at the totality of the data.

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And I find that phrase to be so hilarious because of course that's impossible.

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You can't look at the totality of the data in a market like no one person, no group of people, unless you have honestly like a CBDC and

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everything is completely on that CBDC rails and you have supercomputers to be able to run all this data.

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Maybe an AGI could look at the totality of the data, but it is impossible for humans in any context to look at the quote totality of the data.

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It's, it's hubris.

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They started saying that, I would say five or six years ago, uh, just off the top of my head, they started using this totality term and, and back.

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If I remember right when they started using this term, it was in this context of like everybody was looking at the metrics that they always use and they're like, they have to raise rates at this point.

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And they didn't want to raise them yet at whatever, right?

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And so they came out and they started saying this totality term because it gave them the wiggle room to just kind of make it up as they go and just use whatever metric they want to like actually pluck to say, this is the reason why we didn't raise them.

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We didn't raise or we did raise and it just gave them more flexibility to do whatever the heck they wanted.

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I mean, that's, that's kind of interesting historical context.

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And that it's clearly it's that, uh, that attempt by, uh, let's say fiat economists and economists and fiat financial planners to have their physics envy is showing.

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You know, they're trying to say, well, you know, if only you had access to all the data we have and that is giga brains as we do to be able to look at the totality of it.

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Then you'd see that what we're doing is of course completely rational.

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Yeah.

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But the absurd thing is, is that it's like, you have to have a really short memory, like really short to have any faith in the Fed at all.

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Like even as the, as I'm talking about the normal person just going about their day to day, maybe they pay attention to the Fed a little bit.

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You don't need to know much to probably have seen a clip of every higher up person in the finance world and in the central banking world across the world from, you know, from Lagarde to Bailey to Jerome Powell to Yellen saying it's transitory,

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inflation is transitory.

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And then, you know, it's a, it's a, in Lagarde's words, it's a hump that will go down.

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And, and then of course, you know, later on the say, well, by transitory, we really meant that it's going to be stickier than expected.

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And it's like, well, that's the complete opposite.

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Yeah.

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And then, and then of course, by stickier than expected and transitory, what we really meant was that, well, prices are never going to go down.

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We're never going to have disinflation.

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We're just going to have a slower increase in year over year change.

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But it's still going to, but we're going to get it back to our arbitrary 2% that we've set up as the perfect amount of theft per year that you won't entirely notice.

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But I feel like, and you see a lot of these, these videos shared by like, I think Wall Street Silver shares a lot of them, like pulled from TikTok.

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And a lot of people just starting to really ask the right questions because they're so frustrated.

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And they're like, why, why can't I afford to just live?

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Like I'm working, I work a decent job.

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You know, maybe, maybe you're a nurse, maybe you're whatever you might be like, you work a good job and still you're, you're struggling to make ends meet.

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And people saying, well, this, this isn't how it's supposed to be.

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Like I followed the plan.

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I did what I was told and it's just getting more and more expensive.

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And, you know, it seems like, and this is something I remember Jeff Booth actually said in the chat, like one of the first chats I had on here was right before your chat actually.

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He said, like the only way to resolve all of these very obvious problems in the system is to reset it by going to war and, and divide.

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Like the only way that you're really going to get that reset is if you have, you know, kind of a, well, not a force majeure, but a human induced force majeure where you say, well, these are extraordinary circumstances and they call for extraordinary measures.

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I mean, do you think we're getting, we're getting near that point because what happens next?

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Like what happens after this next election?

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Yeah, I think that historically it was always the perfect excuse to just blame it on while we had to defend ourselves or if we didn't do these things, well, then we were going to have security issues within our boundaries of our nation.

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So they, they would then go to war and then they can blame all the excess spending on the fact that they went to war, which then gave them an excuse as to why the currency exploded.

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I think this time around is very different from a historical context.

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And I think it's very different because there's countries that that are that are wrapped up into this giant fiat scheme that the developed nations of the world, the G sevens of the world have, have played extraordinarily well and have benefited extraordinarily well for decades.

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And I think that there's a lot of victims of this, this policy, this fiat policy that these, you know, really big nation states have benefited from.

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And I think a lot of them are figuring this out. And then I think a lot of them are going to opt out.

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And I think that's going to be the moment that Bitcoin is really going to shine.

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And I think that Bitcoin is this, this gauge that allows the rest of the world to actually see the debauchery that's happening with these with these fiat currencies.

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And so are we going to see some of these countries go to war?

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Maybe. Are we going to see all of them go to war?

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Of course not.

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And so there's going to be beneficiaries of this reset.

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And, you know, we've been having the weft elites say that we're the great reset, the great reset has been the theme for for a decade at this point.

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And you know what, we are going to get a reset, but it's not going to be the reset that they think it's going to be.

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And maybe it is for them, but not for the whole world.

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Right. This reset is going to go down so differently than they're expecting and that they're trying to get a reset.

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Then they're expecting and that they're trying to plan like, you know, it was called literally called the pandemic and we don't have to go into what everybody's opinion is on that.

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But I can tell you looking at the charts and looking at all the interesting things that were happening in 2020, it was no surprise to me that we were seeing some of the things happening in the background that that are the perfect excuse as to why we need to debase the

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money and do all these types of things and now you can just add the war and all this stuff that we're seeing, whether it's in the Ukraine, Russia, over in Israel with Palestine, Iran, you name the country.

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The thing that I keep bringing up in interviews that I find really fascinating Walker is every country that is an enemy of the United States, a quote unquote enemy of the United States.

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They're all net producers.

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When you look at their local economies, every one of those economies that are the enemies of the United States are all net producers.

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They are sending raw materials and services in excess out of their countries, more going out than what they're consuming.

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When you look at all of our allies at the U.S., they're all net consuming nation states that have the power of the printing press.

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And so when people are trying to understand why this scenario is playing out and why we're at each other's throats, you don't have to look too far to kind of like get to the root of what the problem is.

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And it's the unit of account, the number that's being used to exchange value and energy with each other.

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So it's going to play out.

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There's going to be kinetic activities that do happen between certain nations.

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I would argue that's already taking place, but it's more in a sensing standpoint right now between between many countries.

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You have some full blown combat activities over and over in the Ukraine happening.

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And it's just a matter of how much that's going to flare up before the leaders of these countries figure out that there is an off ramp to this debauchery and insanity.

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And you know what?

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It takes inspirational leadership.

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It takes leaders that can step up and say, hey, here's a solution to this massive problem that we can't escape if we just take courageous decisions and actually understand what the heck we're talking about.

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But for many of these countries, they're just going to, you know, the leadership is very weak and very stupid and not thinking about things from a first principle standpoint as to what the root of the problem is.

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And unfortunately, they're going to probably get a lot of people killed in the process.

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I pray that's not the scenario.

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As somebody who's been in combat, let me tell you, there's nothing pleasant about it.

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There's nothing pleasant about it.

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And you know, it's a time for strong leaders to step up, very ethical leaders to step up, and very informed and intelligent leaders to step up and find the off ramp to save not only the people who are killed,

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find the off ramp to save not only themselves, but all the people that they represent inside of their nation.

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It's beautifully well said, Preston.

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And you know, just speaking of leaders who do appear to be breaking the mold that we've been used to of ineffectual, soft, just generally weak leadership across the world.

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You were recently in El Salvador.

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You and that was your first time there, correct?

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Correct.

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Yes.

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Okay.

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I mean, personally, I had the pleasure of going there a couple of times in 2022 and just loved it, heard great things from everyone I talked to.

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And of course, I didn't talk to every single person in the country.

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There are always going to be people who are unhappy with what's going on.

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But the people I talked to were really happy with the leadership that they had.

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I also just saw, maybe you saw this clip of Bukele bringing basically his whole cabinet into a meeting and saying,

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I'm going to investigate every single one of you for corruption because I know my hands are clean, but my legacy will be tainted if the people I surround myself with are dirty.

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And I thought that was a pretty cool move.

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But I'm curious if we see, I mean, we've seen Malay in Argentina.

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We've seen Bukele in El Salvador, two countries where there has been a massive amount of, let's say, obvious corruption, because I think there's corruption everywhere.

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The degree to which it is really obvious varies.

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Like we have plenty of corruption in America.

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We're very good at hiding a lot of it behind a nice veneer.

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But I'm curious if you see, well, kind of your experience in El Salvador one, take on Bukele and how that positions even a small nation like El Salvador to move up in the global rankings.

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And then do you start to see that model expand and be picked up by more countries?

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Because they say, well, look at the results that they speak for themselves.

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One of the things that I'm most impressed with, with Bukele, and I am by no shape of the

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imagination and expert on Bukele, but the one thing that I will say I'm very impressed with is how he stood up to the IMF and World Bank and is trying his best to break out of that model.

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Because if you're a small, even if you're a midsize country, trying to break free from that scheme.

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And let me tell you, it is a scheme of schemes that the IMF and the World Bank have pooled on all of these countries to get them in debt.

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As much as they possibly can so that they can extract out any and all valuable natural resources out of those local countries and then just continue to roll the debt to make it to the point where they can never, ever repay it.

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That's the game.

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And so Bukele not only recognized this, but then had the courage to go toe to toe with against this massive system.

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And I think that that is one of the most important things that I've seen him do.

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Then anybody that is familiar with El Salvador, they would say that his stance on corruption is also magnanimous.

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I'm not an expert on on what he's done from a getting rid of corruption standpoint, but from what I've heard, it's pretty incredible.

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And so I would argue those are two very important things that courageous, inspirational leadership has been set.

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And again, I don't know him.

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I don't know him. I don't know him personally, but those two things I think are very courageous.

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I would agree with that.

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And first of all, I'd like to welcome back.

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Welcome back, Hodel or Hodel.

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00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,600
Honesty, I think we might need to debate later if it's Hodel or Hodel.

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00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:51,200
It's not.

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It's it's not.

343
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:53,200
Yeah.

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Oh, so listen, I like you.

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I like you.

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I like you so much.

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But you sound like a fucking retard when you say it the other way.

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I'm just saying.

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Do you say no, sir?

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00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:03,400
Do you say no, sir?

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No, sir.

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No, sir.

353
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No, sir.

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Now I found the problem.

355
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OK.

356
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:08,800
No, it's OK.

357
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,800
Is it GIF or GIF?

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Yes.

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If you say GIF, I swear to God, I will punch the screen.

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I certainly won't be saying that.

361
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I can't have you doing that.

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I will save this debate for later.

363
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:28,800
But but welcome back with I'm glad the technical difficulties have mostly resolved.

364
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I'm back on mobile.

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I found a find where there's a will.

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There's a way walker.

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I'm back.

368
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That's beautiful.

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Just problem solving.

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But I just wanted to so to bring you up to speed here.

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I was just asking we're talking about just the need for a strong leadership in the

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times to come and how countries like El Salvador under Bokele have clearly like

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if we're just looking at the results, they have done what people previously would

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have thought impossible, both from the standpoint of getting out from under the

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boot of the international US led organizations like the IMF, which are modern day

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monetary colonialists and extractors and it's disgusting.

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And then also from the perspective of just genuinely establishing rule of law in a

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country where there was different sets of laws, depending on, you know, who you were

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connected to.

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And I think that that's actually such an important part or an important point is

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law itself and this idea that like the only legitimate purpose of the law, like

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like the law at its core is supposed to protect private property, to protect

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individual private property.

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That's that's why the law exists.

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The purpose of government is to enforce the law.

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Thus, the purpose of government is to organize for the collective defense of

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private property.

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Now, it's to make sure that you are safe.

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Your property is safe from plunders, basically, but we've seen a perverted law,

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a law that is then put the people who are in charge of enforcing the law in a

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position of being plunders themselves.

392
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,800
And that's a really sick and twisted perversion.

393
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:16,600
And it seems to me that what what Bokele is done and it seems what Malay is

394
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:24,400
trying to do through slightly different means is to set up the rule of law again.

395
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:29,400
Now, I know there's a lot of pushback on someone like Bokele as well, because

396
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:34,800
the way in which he went about this was, you know, rounding up people with with

397
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,400
their gang signs tattooed on their faces or their necks and probably, you know,

398
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,600
caught a few people in that net that maybe shouldn't have been.

399
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:47,400
And I hope that those people will be obviously dealt with in all the fairness

400
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:48,400
of the law.

401
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:54,000
But I think that you see a massive difference, a stark contrast between what

402
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:59,600
he's doing in El Salvador with genuinely trying to bring back the defense of

403
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:04,400
people's private property from what was the gangs there to what is happening in

404
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,200
America, what's happening in Canada, what's happening in Europe, where you start

405
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:13,800
to see that crimes are not punished like you can.

406
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,800
We so many videos of looting or just people robbing stores.

407
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,400
There's, you know, in major cities and there's just like there's no repercussions

408
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:23,600
for these sorts of things.

409
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,000
And I think that what America did really well was have an established rule of law

410
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,000
that was supposed to be fair and we had checks and balances.

411
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:37,000
And it seems like there's a lot of a lot of perversion of the law happening.

412
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,600
And it's one of those times where the people closest to the money printer know

413
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,200
that time's kind of running out and it's just like a cash grab at this point to

414
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:51,200
say, how much can I get my hands on to secure my own legacy and for my family

415
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:56,000
before before the party stops, before the music turns off, you know, and everybody

416
00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,000
tries to sit down in their chair and you got to find one that has the most bags of

417
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,000
cash under it. I don't know.

418
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,800
I just love to hear from you guys like

419
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:11,600
is I want America to be salvageable and I think that it is.

420
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,400
But I don't know what kind of change is required in order to get us off the path

421
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,400
that we're on now. And is that change?

422
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,000
You know, does Bitcoin fix this?

423
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:21,400
Is it an incentives problem?

424
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,000
Is that change?

425
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,000
Does it have to start, you know, at a local level?

426
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,400
Is it possible to make those changes from the top down?

427
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,200
Are we just fucked? Discuss.

428
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,800
I think the two things, one of the things that we were talking about earlier was,

429
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,600
you know, is this coordinated against Bitcoin or is it not?

430
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:41,800
Are they trying to shut off the exits?

431
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,800
Are they trying to, you know, destroy peer to peer currency?

432
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:51,000
Like all of that stuff, I think, is directly correlated to the crisis that's

433
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:56,000
happening at the southern border, the lax policies on crime in liberal cities

434
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,200
and in sanctuary cities and in blue states.

435
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:03,000
It's the most obvious thing in the world to me that like you, if you want to put

436
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:08,000
in a totalitarian, you know, dictatorship or authoritarian regime or oligopoly,

437
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,400
you need to have the people request it.

438
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,400
And what's the easiest way to get the people to request it is to terrorize them

439
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:15,600
into requesting it.

440
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,400
Right. I mean, we've seen this playbook plays out over and over and over again.

441
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,600
And so it's an attempt to consolidate power.

442
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:29,200
They want to terrorize us into sort of obedience and, you know, pacification

443
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:30,400
and requesting safety.

444
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,800
Please save us from the problem that you created.

445
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,600
You know, I mean, to me, like all of those things are anti-American.

446
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,800
A lot of the leadership we have in America is anti-American.

447
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:46,000
A lot of the things that people think and believe in popular sentiments are anti-American.

448
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,200
All of that is true, but we're not fucked.

449
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,600
And here's why we're not fucked is because we still have the world's best technologists,

450
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,200
best and brightest minds.

451
00:38:55,400 --> 00:39:00,200
We are still building the future, even if the people who, you know, are running the

452
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,600
country right now are intent on destroying that future.

453
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:04,800
We're building it anyway.

454
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,600
Okay. And we don't give a fuck.

455
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,800
And so we're building these parallel systems.

456
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,800
We're trying to enshrine America for another hundred years.

457
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,600
We need to clean up the corruption.

458
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,000
I mean, the corruption is rampant.

459
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:16,800
Like nobody wants that.

460
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,600
Like there's a there's a ETF now that's tracking Nancy Pelosi's trades.

461
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,600
It's outperforming the S&P 500.

462
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,400
So you don't even have to track Nancy's trades yourself.

463
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:26,600
You can buy this ETF.

464
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,400
I think it's called NANC.

465
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,400
It tracks Nancy and Paul Pelosi's trades and it outperforms the Broadmarket Index funds.

466
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:34,800
Are you fucking kidding me?

467
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,600
This is the kleptocracy that we're living in and everybody can see it.

468
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:38,800
It's so obvious to everybody.

469
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,200
Everybody knows it.

470
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:45,000
And yet we all just sit there and we're in like some sort of malaise where it's just like this

471
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,600
nihilism is washing over us. We're all like, I don't know, man.

472
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:48,640
Everything's fucked, man.

473
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,600
Blah, blah, blah, man, whatever, dude.

474
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,600
And I don't feel that way.

475
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,400
I feel optimistic because we own the future.

476
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,800
Owning Bitcoin means we own the fucking future.

477
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,000
OK, and we have a seat at the table and we're going to get to say how things operate.

478
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,000
And the way I want things to operate is the way the fucking US Constitution says

479
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,800
they should fucking operate the end.

480
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:13,800
So what?

481
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:18,000
On my side, I agree with everything that Hoddle just said.

482
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,400
This is the only thing that I would I guess this is a pushback.

483
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:29,400
When I think about moving forward, I think of like the United States and like all the

484
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:35,400
people inside there, all the companies inside of it, they're almost like neurons in a brain

485
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:40,600
and the way that they organize themselves and the way that they the incentives that

486
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,560
they've been wired to perform in the economy.

487
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:55,080
When I think about what these neurons have been wired to do over the past 80 years,

488
00:40:55,280 --> 00:41:00,600
they have been incentivized to play this game in a way that you get as close to the

489
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,200
money printer as possible, you get levered up as much as you possibly can.

490
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:09,600
You you leverage these political appointees that that you then put in the place.

491
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:14,200
You vote if you're in defense, you vote money into your district by building

492
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,200
F 35s and all these types of things.

493
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,600
This is the game that everybody's accustomed to.

494
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:21,800
This is the game that they know.

495
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:28,600
It's it's akin to a person using heroin nonstop for a decade straight and then

496
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,600
saying we're going to get them off the heroin and then they're going to just do this.

497
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,000
They're going to play this free and open market thing where the fittest survive

498
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:42,000
and the ones that are the weakest just kind of die and there's no political favors

499
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:43,000
or any of this kind of stuff.

500
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:44,800
Right.

501
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:51,480
For me and when I'm looking at whoever the strongest heroin addict was in this old

502
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:56,120
legacy system from a country standpoint, that that country is going to probably

503
00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:01,360
struggle the most in the transition just because of how their how their quote unquote

504
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:06,080
brain has been wired, how the economy has been wired to function in the incentives

505
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,480
inside of that country have been and have been wired to function.

506
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:15,360
So another thing that I would say is if you are a country that has been in a

507
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:20,760
country that has been dealing with double digit inflation, you become a master

508
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:25,640
of controlling your expenses and trying your darnest to be able to create value.

509
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:31,280
And so once that inflation subsides, it's it's almost like you were out there

510
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,440
running around the track and you had like all these extra weights on you.

511
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,880
And then all of a sudden the weights start coming off and you can you can really

512
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:40,520
rip around the track.

513
00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:44,400
But for people that have had the luxury of not dealing with, you know, I mean,

514
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:49,120
what was the inflation here in the US for the most part relative to this is very

515
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,360
relative to all these other countries in the world.

516
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,520
Well, we were basically in the lap of luxury.

517
00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:58,880
We didn't we weren't running around the track with like the these weight suits on us.

518
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,240
And so I think that when you combine these things and you kind of think of it

519
00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:06,440
in these terms, who should be the countries that struggle the most with the

520
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,440
transition, just looking at it very objectively.

521
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,520
And as an American and as a person that had served in the military in this country,

522
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:17,480
let me tell you, nobody wants to see the United States recover from all this

523
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:18,480
more than me.

524
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,520
But I can also look at things very objectively and look at them in terms of

525
00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:23,960
like how nature operates.

526
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,560
And I'm saying the US should probably be

527
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,240
it should probably be pretty dang hard on them.

528
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:32,160
It should be really hard on Europe.

529
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,840
Like some of these really advanced economies that are completely wired to

530
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,960
operate in this old legacy system and the incentives of it are going to probably

531
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,560
struggle immensely with the transition.

532
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:47,000
One other thing that I would tell you is the countries that have a lot of

533
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:53,440
physical infrastructure for this legacy system, that transition to this new system

534
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:58,880
where efficiency is going to be king, the countries that are that are building

535
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:03,200
that infrastructure for the very first time from the ground up and can do it in a

536
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:08,200
very thoughtful and efficient kind of way and not reengineer stuff that was

537
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,880
already there and repurpose it.

538
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,760
I think are going to actually have a huge advantage from a trend standpoint

539
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:19,680
going into the coming 10 to 25 years from now.

540
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,800
So anyway, but yeah, go ahead, Paul.

541
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:28,960
No, I totally agree that America is not going to be nimble in this transition.

542
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:33,920
And we are going to be as slow and lumbering and it is going to be as

543
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,680
painful as Preston described.

544
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,200
I believe all of those things are true.

545
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:42,280
But I also believe in this sort of American ethos that like America will

546
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,400
try all the wrong things before it finally does the right thing.

547
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,640
And that's just the chaos of our air quotes, democracy.

548
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:54,080
And like I think we're going through some sort of a big cyclical change

549
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,960
in American life that is very similar to the cyclical change we went through

550
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:59,760
at the turn of the industrial revolution.

551
00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:02,600
And now we have a digital revolution that's happening.

552
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,800
And the American institutions that accept that that digital revolution is

553
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:07,880
happening are going to do well.

554
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,880
So if you look at like the East Coast versus the West Coast, this is something

555
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,480
like Balaji Srinivasan talked about.

556
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,240
The East Coast is just trying to consolidate their power, hang on to their little

557
00:45:17,240 --> 00:45:21,440
fiefdom, their lashing out at anybody who doesn't agree with them or who,

558
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:23,680
you know, points out where they're hypocritical.

559
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,840
And then the West Coast is just like, all right, I don't even want to

560
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:27,920
participate in that game.

561
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,240
I don't even play that game.

562
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,240
We are going to build in cyberspace.

563
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:36,200
And when we are very, we're not fully aligned with the with the tech elites

564
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:37,040
on the West Coast.

565
00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:38,360
In fact, many of them are shit coiners.

566
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,200
So we're like actually diametrically opposed to some of them.

567
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,680
But spiritually, we are much more on their side than we are on the

568
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,240
entrenched East Coast side.

569
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:52,880
And so to me, as somebody who is looking forward optimistically, I side with

570
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,640
the new pioneers who are going to the new frontier and the new frontier is

571
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:57,640
cyberspace.

572
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,600
And basically it's like, OK, take the El Salvador example, right?

573
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,840
El Salvador is going to be one of these nimble players in the digital economy.

574
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:09,080
And they have a chance to be like a South American Estonia or even better,

575
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,120
like a South American Monaco or something like that.

576
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,400
And I believe that's going to happen for them.

577
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,200
But El Salvador is not America.

578
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:16,760
Let's not conflate the two things.

579
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:17,760
It can never be America.

580
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:19,120
It's not protected by the oceans.

581
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:20,600
It doesn't have the Mississippi.

582
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,040
It doesn't have the nuclear arsenal.

583
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:23,000
It's not us.

584
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:24,640
We're we're a totally different thing.

585
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,480
And yeah, we're like slow and lumbering and moving America is like moving

586
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,800
an aircraft carrier. All those things are true.

587
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:35,040
But we still have some of the best, most freedom minded people in the world here.

588
00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:39,480
And a lot of these people who hate America and who are trying to run our

589
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,640
society into the ground, frankly, they're 85 years old.

590
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:43,360
What do they got?

591
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:44,880
They can do this for six more years.

592
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,920
Maybe maybe with the best drugs on earth.

593
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,760
You know, I mean, come on, their time is going to run out.

594
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,440
All I look around and all my peers, all the young, smart people,

595
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,520
they're all building towards the libertarian, you know, Bitcoin future.

596
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,200
Some of them are building towards like the A.I.

597
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:00,040
Communist future.

598
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,680
But hopefully that we'll have to see those two things are going to play out.

599
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,760
I think that's the battle of the 21st century.

600
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,080
At the heart of it, Walker, just because speaking of drugs,

601
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,400
whatever drugs Joe Biden is on, I think we could all use some because whatever

602
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,440
that shit is is like the next level.

603
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,000
Yeah, no, sorry, Preston, go ahead.

604
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:24,320
For us to accelerate everything that Hodel just said, I completely agree with him.

605
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:31,400
But to to accelerate and to to manifest this, the speed of the US or you name it

606
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,680
country to really kind of benefit from from this transition into this new world,

607
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:41,680
this reset, it's going to take a leader that is deeply intellectual,

608
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:45,600
that understands what's taking place from a very broad standpoint.

609
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,880
They have to have reach and they have to have influence over other people within

610
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,880
within the country and other leaders within the country.

611
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,920
They have to be ethical in order to to help bridge this.

612
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:02,440
And they have to be able to share this this knowledge and this information in a

613
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,920
in a way that gets it down to as many people as possible.

614
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:11,520
This is the only way that you're going to be able to bridge this is through sound,

615
00:48:11,720 --> 00:48:14,480
ethical, intelligent leadership.

616
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:19,120
It's why I keep bringing it up as a theme is because that's the only way you can

617
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,720
accelerate it in you name it country.

618
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:26,960
Do you think, though, that that starts, I mean, and I agree with that in term from

619
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:31,640
an acceleration standpoint, but again, we've also acknowledged that America is slow

620
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:36,560
and lumbering, especially it seems at the top of our political hierarchy.

621
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:43,640
So is it I think there's a good argument to be made for localism, for a,

622
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:49,200
you know, for lack of a better word, a decentralized approach to change,

623
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,840
which I think you're already seeing happen, right?

624
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,440
You're seeing that start to play out.

625
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:59,680
You see the differences from one town to another in terms of maybe how they dealt

626
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:00,600
with covid policy.

627
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,480
You see the difference from one state to another in terms of how they deal with

628
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:04,480
border policy.

629
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,640
You see the difference from one state to another in how they deal with taxes.

630
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,520
So and like that's that's good.

631
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:14,200
We should have differences between states in America because that was the whole

632
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,880
fucking point of America was to have different states that were each able to

633
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,280
operate in such a way that you know what, if you don't like it in X state,

634
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,720
you can move to Y state and you don't have to deal with X states bullshit anymore.

635
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,720
But I mean, do you see this kind of

636
00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:35,160
because I agree, like it would be lovely to have an actual inspiring

637
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:40,880
and forceful and strong president that's not just trying to baffle everyone with

638
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:45,400
bullshit or absolutely dementia ridden

639
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:50,400
to speak of a couple that I can think of that are going to be at the top of both tickets.

640
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,480
I mean, do you think that we see that anytime soon?

641
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,960
Do you think that RFK is that person?

642
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,320
Do you think he has a legitimate chance on an independent ticket?

643
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:02,120
Do you think that this is something we still need to wait a couple more cycles for?

644
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:03,880
It's not it's not RFK pains.

645
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,000
Pains usually the teacher in this scenario.

646
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,880
Yes, yeah. Yeah, it's not going to be RFK.

647
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:13,240
I mean, RFK is he just he's just not going to be the guy.

648
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:15,200
You know, unfortunately, I mean, I like him.

649
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:16,320
He's a very principled guy.

650
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:21,520
He reminds me of like Bernie Sanders with a functioning brain, you know,

651
00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:26,040
right, Bernie seems to be, you know, missing it.

652
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,200
He's a few crayons short of a full box.

653
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,440
So yeah, it's not going to be what I think if you're asking me who I actually think

654
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,960
it's going to be, I think it's going to be a young, smart,

655
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:43,440
Mexican, Republican, like the Mexican JFK, who hopefully we orange pill.

656
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,720
And he's very pro Bitcoin and pro freedom.

657
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,840
That's the guy I think is coming to like write the ship.

658
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:53,160
You know, because if you look at like the demographics that are shifting in America,

659
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,160
we're going to get a Mexican president sooner or later.

660
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,840
And Mexicans are actually very conservative.

661
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,120
They're much more conservative than people think they are.

662
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:01,920
They just don't have economic power yet.

663
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,240
But like they're basically all Catholics who have nine children.

664
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:05,800
That's a conservative, my guy.

665
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:06,400
Right.

666
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,800
So like there's going to be this, this sweeping sort of

667
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:14,200
Reagan movement with like a young, good looking, intelligent Mexican president

668
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,960
at some point, and I'm fucking all for it.

669
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:19,960
I like that.

670
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:24,200
That's going to be I'm going to take this clip and replay it when we get our

671
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:29,360
first young, good looking, you know, based Mexican president.

672
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:30,640
I look forward to it.

673
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:31,400
I'm impressed.

674
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:31,880
I'm curious.

675
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:33,120
I'm curious your take too, though.

676
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,440
Like, do you do you see this happening anytime soon?

677
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,920
Or is this again, like you said, Payne's the best teacher and I agree.

678
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,160
Like you get smart by force, not by choice most of the time.

679
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,840
And most of us are pretty fucking dumb.

680
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:51,960
What's your take on the fact that we still have most people in this country

681
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:57,120
pointing at the other party tells me that there's a lot more pain on the horizon.

682
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:01,000
Because once they stop pointing at the other party and they realize that both

683
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,600
parties are equally as corrupted and that the solution is you got to suck the

684
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,280
monetary energy out of the out of the printing press.

685
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:11,360
Once it gets to that, then I think we're going to be ripe for somebody to step in

686
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:16,520
and kind of lead that charge with that being the primary talking point is that

687
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:21,080
both sides and you started getting this with some of the fringe candidates already,

688
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,120
which tells me it's kind of coming, but you're not seeing it with the ones that

689
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,720
are dominating either party.

690
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,600
So yeah, I think you're not going to get at this election.

691
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:34,560
Maybe the next election you will.

692
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:39,000
I think, you know, I was thinking about this just recently, actually,

693
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:45,240
which is I think that the world is so has gotten so complicated and things are so

694
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:47,920
specialized and esoteric.

695
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,560
The average person you talk to doesn't know what an LLM is.

696
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:51,960
They've never heard of it, right?

697
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,040
It's a big deal that's sweeping through tech.

698
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:55,200
They have no idea what that is.

699
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:56,880
They don't know anything about Bitcoin.

700
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,360
They don't know the difference between Bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

701
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:03,800
They just know that there's this sort of political theology that they can grab

702
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,680
ahold of and that can be like their dominant worldview because they're missing

703
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:07,880
an actual theology, right?

704
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:12,160
And that political theology is I'm a Democrat and Donald Trump is the most evil

705
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:16,120
Hitlerist character that's ever walked the face of this great nation, blah, blah,

706
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:20,400
or Donald Trump is the savior of this great nation and how dare, you know,

707
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,680
the evil Democrats, blah, blah, blah, all that shit, right?

708
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:28,160
And it's just it's a very easy, simple heuristic that people can use in order

709
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:32,280
to subdivide the world and sort of go about their day.

710
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:36,440
And so, you know, I unfortunately, I don't think we're ever going to get to a place

711
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:40,920
of like enlightenment where the average person goes, oh, you know what?

712
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,880
My neighbor, he might have different beliefs, but he's a good person.

713
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:49,360
That's kind of that's like from a bygone era that doesn't exist anymore, unfortunately.

714
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:53,240
Well, the average person is average, unfortunately.

715
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,040
And, you know, like, well,

716
00:53:56,240 --> 00:53:57,680
and there's like that.

717
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:01,120
Well, the average person is average and depending if we're talking about, you know,

718
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:05,800
a median here or mode, you know, but like 50 percent of people are below that average.

719
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,160
If we're just let's just slice it down the middle, right?

720
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,440
Like, let's let's take that middle human in the US.

721
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:17,440
Like, there, like, I love my fellow Americans, but in every country, like,

722
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:21,960
it's a sad reality, but the majority of people are pretty dumb.

723
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:23,160
And that's OK, too.

724
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,280
Like, you can be dumb and still be a really good person because everything is

725
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:32,560
relative being like, yes, and I am a fucking idiot relative to some of the absolute

726
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,840
geniuses that I've met because everything is relative, right?

727
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:42,080
And a lot of the people that think they're absolute geniuses, the upper right hand

728
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,520
side of the bell curve, it's not quite at the, you know, if we're looking at the

729
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:50,200
bell curve meme, like you you get towards that upper right hand side.

730
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:51,840
Like, those are the dangerous people, right?

731
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,640
Those are the people that that are just smart enough to know that they're smarter

732
00:54:55,840 --> 00:55:00,720
than average, but still not smart enough to actually be able to generate their own

733
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:04,040
or like original and organic thoughts.

734
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:07,360
They're still just repeating things that they've heard, right?

735
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,960
And to your point, Hodel, excuse me.

736
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:11,040
Thank you.

737
00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:13,240
Yeah, you're welcome.

738
00:55:13,240 --> 00:55:16,560
You're going to break me of this habit just right here in this chat.

739
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,000
But anyway, to your point, like,

740
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:20,960
yes,

741
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:27,360
most people are not paying attention to the vast majority of earth shattering

742
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:31,320
things that are happening at any given time, whether that be from a technological

743
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:35,680
perspective, whether that be from a geopolitical perspective, from a monetary

744
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,720
perspective, as it intersects with technology, they're just trying to get

745
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:42,360
through their day like they're just trying to get through their day.

746
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,840
They're just trying to get home to get done with work, get home to their kids,

747
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:51,400
lead a nice life and not be bled to death by inflation that is sucking them dry

748
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,680
and making everything harder for them as they still work their ass off.

749
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:57,240
And like that is the majority of people.

750
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:01,760
And one thing that does give me hope is that even though

751
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:05,480
the majority of people still don't see Bitcoin,

752
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:08,960
they're starting to at least and this I think when you dropped off,

753
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:11,760
Preston and I were talking about this a little bit, but the majority of people

754
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:15,320
are more people are starting to at least ask the right questions because they're

755
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:19,080
starting the pain is getting to be so much that they can't just ignore it anymore.

756
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:20,520
They can't just sweep it under the rug.

757
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:21,080
Right.

758
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:23,680
They don't have a way to rationalize it away anymore.

759
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:28,040
They have to say, wait a minute, I know something is really wrong.

760
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:30,200
I know something is really broken.

761
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:34,040
I can't quite put my finger on it, but I know it's there.

762
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:35,560
And so I'm going to, you know what?

763
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:38,440
Again, to your point, Preston, you get smart because of pain, right?

764
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:40,120
You get smart by force.

765
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:42,640
And so a lot of people are getting smarter right now.

766
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:43,920
They're starting to ask more questions.

767
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,800
They're starting to do more research.

768
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:48,640
And they're starting to realize that, wait a minute,

769
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:53,680
maybe all of these red, blue, left, right, talking points that I've been fed,

770
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:57,320
where every problem is blamed on the other side and every success is blamed or is

771
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,760
given to our side, maybe a lot of that was kind of bullshit.

772
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:02,280
Maybe there's something else at play.

773
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:03,480
And that gives me hope.

774
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:07,520
Like the more people start doubting and asking questions, the more hopeful I

775
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:13,080
become that we actually have a chance because like I may, I may trash talk,

776
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:19,040
quote, America a lot, but I want to be very clear that when I pick

777
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:24,360
Fonat or satirize or talk shit about America, I'm talking shit about our

778
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,040
political and financial class.

779
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:28,960
I'm not talking shit about American people.

780
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:32,960
I'm not talking about American ideas because I love American ideas and American

781
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:37,280
people. America is a young country that has done so, so much.

782
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,560
In such a short amount of time and through its efforts has lifted most of the

783
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:45,360
world out of poverty and now has organizations which

784
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:50,360
institute monetary colonialism like the IMF, but that's not the American people

785
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:51,040
instituting that.

786
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:52,760
That's not the American idea instituting that.

787
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:53,760
That's un-American.

788
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:55,480
That's anti-American.

789
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:56,760
So I still have hope for America.

790
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:57,600
I still love America.

791
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,480
I want America to succeed.

792
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:07,360
And I just hope we get smarter by force and by pain sooner rather than later.

793
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:09,440
But totally, I don't know.

794
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:13,080
You know, what's interesting is thinking about pain and how pain is a forcing

795
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,040
function. I was thinking about this the other day that basically like,

796
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:20,200
you know, the four year cycle or hodling through downturns or these brutal

797
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:23,440
Bitcoin bear markets that were all forced to experience, you know, negative 90%,

798
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:24,640
negative 80%.

799
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:29,800
I think those are a forcing function that inspire us to be better individuals

800
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,240
because you simply have to be better in order to make it through those

801
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,480
cruciples because those cruciples are searingly painful.

802
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:37,960
I mean, it's brutally hard.

803
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:42,840
And if we had gotten into Bitcoin, you know, whenever 2017 or before,

804
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:47,240
whenever we all entered and, you know, basically we just bought Bitcoin and

805
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:51,800
went straight to $2 million, I don't think we'd be very good people, you know?

806
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:55,800
And I don't, I just don't think we would have earned it, right?

807
00:58:55,800 --> 00:59:00,400
And at least in this sense, we're forced to contend with like the reality

808
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,120
of the markets as they are.

809
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,400
There is no soft landing for Bitcoiners, right?

810
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,560
There is no circuit breaker for Bitcoiners.

811
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:08,760
We are alley cats.

812
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:09,760
We live outside.

813
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:15,200
We fight in the back of the Dunkin Donuts fucking alleyway over old spoiled milk

814
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:16,200
with other cats.

815
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:16,800
Okay.

816
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,280
We kill birds for our food, our sustenance.

817
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:21,240
That is, that is what we do.

818
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:23,480
And we, we live in the dirt.

819
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:25,040
We live in the fucking dirt, man.

820
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:29,400
We get into the details of things and we deal with base level reality every day

821
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:30,440
as investors.

822
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:34,520
Whereas I don't see that in the traditional markets quite as much in the

823
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:35,280
traditional markets.

824
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:39,080
It's like, um, just buying a market index funds and everything goes up because

825
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:40,320
of money printing the end.

826
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:45,440
If you want to keep your Bitcoin safe for the long haul so that you too can

827
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:49,440
have a seat at the table after the great monetary reset, then head to

828
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:56,120
bitbox.swiss slash Walker and use promo code Walker for 5% off the fully open

829
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:00,000
source Bitcoin only, bitbox 02 hardware wallet.

830
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:04,480
Then get your Bitcoin off the exchange and into your own self custody.

831
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:09,160
The bitbox 02 is easy as hell to use whether you are brand new to Bitcoin or

832
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,160
you are a well seasoned psychopath.

833
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,840
Again, it is Bitcoin only and it is fully open source.

834
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,880
You can go to their GitHub and verify for yourself.

835
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:19,320
Please do not trust me.

836
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:24,720
Plus when you go to bitbox.swiss slash Walker and use promo code Walker, not

837
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:29,560
only do you get 5% off, but you also help support this fucking podcast.

838
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:30,480
So thank you.

839
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,440
No, I first of all, now I'm, I'm picturing you as an alley cat.

840
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,600
So just a great visual Preston.

841
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,400
I'm going to need you to make a little meme based video of that later.

842
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:44,440
But I think that's such a good boy.

843
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:49,760
So for reference, like I, Carl and I got in, in 2020.

844
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:54,680
So like, just like when they started sending out checks and that for me, that

845
01:00:54,680 --> 01:01:00,080
was the, the moment that I realized, Oh, something's really wrong here with,

846
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:01,880
how things are working.

847
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:03,040
Like first of all, they're locking us down.

848
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:03,920
Now they're sending us checks.

849
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:07,040
Like something, that's when I just started going deep down the Bitcoin and

850
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:14,840
monetary rabbit hole for, and I think there's, there's a lot of class of 2020 folks

851
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:23,880
out there, like a lot who like myself, most of the time has been pretty painful.

852
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:27,240
Like there was, there was a, you know, a little, there was a pretty, you know,

853
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:28,680
great run up and everything.

854
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:29,520
And that's great.

855
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:31,240
Like, Oh, I'm a, I'm a genius.

856
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:34,520
And then like all that doubt creeps in when it starts going back down.

857
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:35,760
And then it, and then it went back up again.

858
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,720
We're like, Oh, genius again, like suck it friends.

859
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:40,680
And then goes back down again.

860
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:45,840
And then we languish in the lows of the bear market for what felt like an eternity.

861
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,440
And now it starts pumping back up again.

862
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:53,280
And, and it's all the way down to whatever it is, 58K gang right now.

863
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:55,240
I don't know, maybe it's 59 either way.

864
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:57,360
It's always 58, 58K gangs, right?

865
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:02,600
But it's like, you're absolutely right that every time that, every time Bitcoin

866
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:08,840
just takes a dive, you kind of like, at least I still get this little sense of like,

867
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:10,720
Oh, shit, here we go again.

868
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,080
But then there's like this weird calm that comes over.

869
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:16,240
And I'm like, well, you know what, I didn't do enough of last time when I had

870
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:17,840
this feeling was buy more Bitcoin.

871
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:22,240
And this time I'm not going to make that same mistake.

872
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,120
And I'm going to go out and I'm going to touch some grass and I'm going to hang

873
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:26,280
out with my wife and my son.

874
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:30,560
And I'm going to realize that my time horizon is more than just a couple of

875
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:36,320
days or weeks or months, you know, my plans are measured in centuries and,

876
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:38,840
or at least decades.

877
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:45,600
But like, I think that that is a, like it's a really nice forcing factor for

878
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,600
becoming a, as you said, a better person.

879
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:51,920
Like that's, that's a pretty cool tool.

880
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:57,880
It's a nice second order effect of Bitcoin and holding Bitcoin is like that

881
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:02,200
forcing you to think more long term, to truly not sweat the small stuff.

882
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:08,120
And to realize like, if you just are patient, you will be rewarded, but

883
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:10,560
patience is a virtue for a reason, right?

884
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:12,360
It's, it's not easy.

885
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:15,440
But we're getting more and more patient people.

886
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:16,360
So that's a good thing.

887
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:21,600
Make it through a downturn of a year, or like a bear market that lasts a year.

888
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,840
If it wasn't truly savings, right?

889
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:28,320
So like, if you were, if you were buying something and let's just say that you

890
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:33,840
had this windfall that came in and you could stay above water for three months,

891
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:35,520
like you can't own Bitcoin.

892
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:41,760
It's just too volatile for you because the, you can't hold on to it for a year

893
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:45,240
and let it get back to where it was.

894
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:50,400
If it wasn't truly savings that you could plow away forever, because that's

895
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:54,240
like the definition of somebody who's truly a net producer is they can keep

896
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:56,760
doing it month and month over again.

897
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,000
And they never have to tap into it because they're making more money the

898
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:00,720
following month.

899
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:05,240
And so Bitcoin just finds its hands into the fittest.

900
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:06,720
That's, that's what it is.

901
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:08,440
There are investors.

902
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:09,680
It has no other choice.

903
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:14,440
There are investors out there who have stories about, you know, a 90% drawdown

904
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:15,200
on their net worth.

905
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:17,880
And often it happens to them once.

906
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:19,440
It's happened to me four times.

907
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:20,160
Okay.

908
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:22,360
That's a lot of times, man.

909
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:23,680
That's a lot of times.

910
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:24,200
Okay.

911
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:27,400
It's probably going to happen five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 more times

912
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:29,800
before I reach the finish line, you know.

913
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:32,800
What is the finish line?

914
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:35,840
That was, that was a sound.

915
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:38,240
I think this ends with us all getting our own planet, you know?

916
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:44,000
It's a lot like Dune or Mormonism or the combination of the two.

917
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:51,080
So, so it's, we all have our own wives and there's like multiple or multiple

918
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:52,040
wives per planet.

919
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:54,800
I'm just not sure, I'm not sure the Mormonism factors in there, but like,

920
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:55,120
I'm not sure.

921
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:56,240
You're going to have that out with you and Carla.

922
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:59,520
I don't know how you guys are going to split it up, you know, it's not on me.

923
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:00,200
Yeah.

924
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,040
I, one's, one's more than enough for me, I think.

925
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:07,920
I don't know if I'm more power to those guys that can, that can handle multiple.

926
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:08,960
Uh, yeah.

927
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:10,480
I'll stick with my one.

928
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:12,360
There was no second best wife for me.

929
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:17,760
To give us, to give a serious answer, I think the finish line is, um, us having

930
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:24,000
a seat is sort of at the table of power and being able to, you know, renegotiate

931
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:28,640
terms and, and rule, and rule sets and be able to have a hand in rulemaking.

932
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:35,040
And the rulemaking is essentially like, we're bringing a fair distributed rule

933
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:37,800
set for everybody that can't be changed in the middle of the game.

934
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,240
And that's the thing we're bringing to the table.

935
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:44,000
And we want that, you know, as far and wide as, as we possibly can.

936
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:48,760
And to restore, not really to progress, but to restore a lot of the things

937
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:52,720
about American society that we've lost a lot of principles we've lost along the

938
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:58,000
way while maintaining sort of our progression in terms of God like

939
01:05:58,000 --> 01:05:59,160
technologies, right?

940
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:04,840
So like re, recent or America in terms of principles and incentives and then,

941
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:09,680
you know, continue to progress on AI and robotics and, you know, et cetera,

942
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:11,920
et cetera, et cetera, like the list goes on.

943
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:13,080
Chris, the list goes on.

944
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:20,840
I think that's a, again, America is a very special place.

945
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:22,760
And obviously we're all three Americans.

946
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:23,920
We have some bias, right?

947
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:31,960
And America has done some horrible things, of course, as has like literally every

948
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:37,120
group of people in every government to just about somebody across the long

949
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:38,400
span of human history.

950
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:39,800
America is just pretty young.

951
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:45,800
And so I, but American ideals are really powerful.

952
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:50,040
And I, I hope that again, like you can't kill an idea, right?

953
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:51,000
They're bulletproof.

954
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:56,480
And no matter how much shit our currently corrupt, elected or

955
01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:01,360
unelected bureaucrats throw at us, they can't kill that idea.

956
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:04,040
And I think that they're, that's what gives me hope for America still is that

957
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:06,760
there's still enough people out there who say, no, no, no, no.

958
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,080
I know what this is supposed to be like.

959
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:12,920
I know, because I've read a book that the people that founded our country were

960
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:14,680
like 18 to 25.

961
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:21,480
They were young, like truly young men who said, I'm, I'm going to put my life

962
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:23,000
on the line for this country.

963
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:27,000
I'm Preston, you've literally put your life on the line for this country.

964
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:32,600
And people like, people like you, Preston, people like our founding fathers,

965
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:35,840
they give me a lot of hope because it's like, I mean, then again,

966
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:39,440
it's like, you look at an 18 to 25 year old now and you're like, oh,

967
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:44,560
we are so fucked, you know, like there, but, but I still have hope.

968
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:45,240
I still have hope.

969
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:49,960
And I think, you know, one thing I would like to explore a little bit because

970
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:55,080
there's been a lot of talk lately about, like, and there always will be probably

971
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:59,600
until, until we die in the, you know, red death of the sun.

972
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:05,440
But there's been a lot of talk lately about, is Bitcoin money?

973
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,440
Is Bitcoin something else?

974
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:09,760
Is Bitcoin just a network?

975
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:14,720
I've noticed this debate kind of resurfacing again with some extra force.

976
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:18,480
And maybe I'm too simplistic, but I always think like, okay, well, lower case

977
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:26,560
B Bitcoin is money and uppercase B Bitcoin is the monetary network and, you know,

978
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:30,240
distributed consensus mechanism that allows for this money to be transmitted

979
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:31,680
and for this rule set to be maintained.

980
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:32,680
Is Bitcoin money?

981
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:39,120
And also as a follow up to that, because this has been another hot topic of late,

982
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:43,680
especially with sailors, new micro strategy orange.

983
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:49,200
Should people be able to do whatever the fuck they want on Bitcoin?

984
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:56,560
And is that in any way risking Bitcoin's future as money?

985
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:58,560
If it is money, is it money?

986
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:04,640
As well, I believe, and maybe you believe as well.

987
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:08,800
Yeah, I'll take, I'll go first.

988
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:13,760
I mean, Bitcoin is an open permissionless global monetary network.

989
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:21,200
Trying to gatekeep an open permissionless global monetary network is really stupid.

990
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:21,680
Okay.

991
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:29,440
Listen, people are going to try every possible thing that can possibly be tried on Bitcoin.

992
01:09:29,440 --> 01:09:30,400
They're going to try it.

993
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:36,480
And the things that the market will bear will continue to be a part of Bitcoin.

994
01:09:36,480 --> 01:09:40,560
The things that are within consensus and that the market will bear will continue to be a part

995
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:42,000
of Bitcoin going forward.

996
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:48,560
Does that mean that if Bitcoin has a, you know, non monetary use case where it's being used for

997
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:54,800
XYZ data storage application, whether it's identity or land title registry or blah, blah,

998
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:59,760
blah tokenized this tokenized that, does that mean that it negates the non monetary use case of

999
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:00,240
Bitcoin?

1000
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:07,040
No, especially not if, you know, the, the vast amount of transactions are being spent on

1001
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:08,800
monetary use cases.

1002
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:15,280
At the same time, though, you know, these non monetary use cases are securing the Bitcoin

1003
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:16,080
network.

1004
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:21,760
So if you're holding Bitcoin, you are getting, because other people are choosing to spend it on

1005
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:30,560
NFT and, you know, digital identity and whatever else it is, you're receiving a marginal,

1006
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:36,400
but tangible benefit in the terms of extra security for your monetary holdings, right?

1007
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:41,040
And so that is a synergistic system that seems to work.

1008
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:47,520
And for what time period or how temporary these non monetary use cases are, I don't know.

1009
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:51,840
And I don't know if any of them will proliferate or will sustain into the future.

1010
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:57,760
I don't think many of the ones we see today, like my take is like probably not.

1011
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:01,760
I don't even think this MSTR decentralized identity thing is going to be around, you know,

1012
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:04,480
but like, so what?

1013
01:11:04,480 --> 01:11:06,000
Let them try, you know what I mean?

1014
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:07,040
Let them try and do it.

1015
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:10,640
And we're going to have a free market competition for block space.

1016
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:15,040
And then we're also going to, you should also expect people to maximally use whatever

1017
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:17,840
block space is available because Bitcoin is the commons.

1018
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:19,120
That's the other problem too.

1019
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:21,280
So like, I don't know, there's a lot to chew on.

1020
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:22,240
There's a lot of nuance.

1021
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:27,840
And it's very, I hate these simplistic, are you anti this or you pro that?

1022
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:34,640
You know, bro, agree being silent about cat pictures on the blockchain is because you can

1023
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:35,280
bliss it.

1024
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:37,840
I just want you to know that it's like, shut the fuck, I don't care.

1025
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:38,480
I just don't care.

1026
01:11:38,480 --> 01:11:42,160
Well, silence is violence, you know, as we've learned.

1027
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:44,080
Your silence is deafening Walker.

1028
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:44,720
It's deafening.

1029
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:46,240
It is.

1030
01:11:47,440 --> 01:11:49,280
That's Tommy behavior whenever you talk like that.

1031
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:50,720
It is.

1032
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:55,360
And Preston, I'm curious of your take on this.

1033
01:11:56,240 --> 01:11:57,760
So Bitcoin is definitely money.

1034
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:04,320
Bitcoin is, if we were going to go deeper than that, I mean, it's just, you're storing the

1035
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:10,160
energy that you have spent, and like, let's say I added some type of efficiency to

1036
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:15,520
HODL as he's performing some job and I own that product or service and he's willing to pay me

1037
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:19,760
for it because it's just cheaper for him to pay me for that product or service than him try to

1038
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:24,960
do it himself because I have some type of specialization or competitive edge on providing that

1039
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:26,080
product or service.

1040
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:27,280
He's willing to pay me for it.

1041
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:33,440
He pays me for it and I'm storing and I'm freezing that energy capture that benefited him.

1042
01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:37,520
And obviously benefited me because he paid me for it and I'm just freezing that in time.

1043
01:12:38,480 --> 01:12:43,040
And I can tap into that anytime I want without any line loss of that energy disappearing.

1044
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:43,920
That's what Bitcoin is.

1045
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:51,200
So if you want a lot of Bitcoin, find a way to add a whole lot of value to as many people

1046
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:56,160
as possible in the world by making a product or service that provides efficiency to them

1047
01:12:56,480 --> 01:13:00,320
that they are willing to pay for so that they don't have to do it themselves because it's

1048
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:01,600
harder for them to do it themselves.

1049
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:03,840
Figure out how to do that and you'll have a ton of Bitcoin.

1050
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:08,960
It'll just naturally flow into your hands and if you preserve it in Bitcoin,

1051
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:12,320
you're not going to have it erode like it does in this fiat system.

1052
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:18,000
And based on how much growth rate I suspect and many other people suspect is still going

1053
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:21,840
to occur in this network relative to the fiat network that exists today.

1054
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:27,440
I think it's going to outperform and tremendously outperform a lot of equity that is also

1055
01:13:27,440 --> 01:13:33,840
a creative and value for people but not necessarily because of the way it's been priced in fiat

1056
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:34,880
terms against Bitcoin.

1057
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:37,760
Okay, so that's why I think it's money.

1058
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:42,720
With respect to all the decentralized identification stuff that's happening with micro

1059
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:52,720
strategy or using the additional block space for data itself, I have, you know,

1060
01:13:52,720 --> 01:14:02,000
there are rules that if you follow these rules, you can participate in the network any way that

1061
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:02,480
you want.

1062
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:08,640
If we think that those rules are unfair or disrupting or destroying the incentive structure

1063
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:14,240
of somebody storing a billion dollars worth of buying power that costs them a couple bucks to

1064
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:20,000
put there, if we think that that incentive is being disrupted and broken or being compromised,

1065
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:25,120
well then we as a community and humans that are participating on this network should do

1066
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:29,920
something about the rule set and try to garner support to change that rule set.

1067
01:14:30,480 --> 01:14:36,160
And if we don't get enough people to change that rule set and we're saying this is the left

1068
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:40,080
and right limits and there's people saying, okay, well, I can play inside of those left

1069
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:40,880
and right limits.

1070
01:14:41,440 --> 01:14:45,200
Well, they should be allowed to play inside of those left and right limits any way that

1071
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:45,680
they want.

1072
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:50,320
And you know what, if we actually believe the incentives are still intact, which I believe

1073
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:55,600
they are, because you can store a billion dollars for like next to nothing and I don't

1074
01:14:55,600 --> 01:15:00,800
have to worry about the government like confiscating those that billion billions in buying power.

1075
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:05,360
That's why the incentive structure is not being compromised today.

1076
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:08,720
Despite these swoopty things you can do with the data.

1077
01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:13,440
Well, then I'm just going to take a step back and say, well, let's let this play out.

1078
01:15:13,440 --> 01:15:18,560
Let's see if the market's willing to pay for some of these things on the block space.

1079
01:15:19,200 --> 01:15:23,440
Now, micro strategies orange specifically.

1080
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:28,400
I believe they're still going to have, if they're performing some type of KYC activity

1081
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:32,560
in order to provide an orange checkmark that's being written into the block space,

1082
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:38,240
that KYC activity is going to have to be signed by a master micro strategy account

1083
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:43,680
in order for that, you know, orange check to be integrated with the Microsoft system or any

1084
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:48,000
other type of enterprise software for verification validation to take place.

1085
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:51,600
So is that decentralized in and of itself?

1086
01:15:52,480 --> 01:15:54,640
That activity is not for the KYC.

1087
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:59,600
The fact that they're storing the hash of the data for the verification on the blockchain

1088
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:04,240
is a decentralized use of storing that hash.

1089
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:05,440
Yes.

1090
01:16:05,440 --> 01:16:09,440
So when I'm looking at it, I'm saying, okay, like there's, there's something there.

1091
01:16:09,440 --> 01:16:13,440
They don't have to store that data or they don't have to worry about that data being

1092
01:16:13,440 --> 01:16:15,920
compromised once they write it into the truth chain.

1093
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:24,960
But as far as the actual KYC part of it, there's still a, there's still a centralizing

1094
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:30,640
force there where you have to trust micro strategy in order to perform that KYC and then

1095
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:33,680
sign it with a master account for it to be valid.

1096
01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:37,280
So, I mean, am I super excited about it?

1097
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:37,920
Yeah.

1098
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:40,720
Do I think that it could catch on?

1099
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:41,280
Maybe.

1100
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:42,400
I don't know.

1101
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:48,560
Do I think that the way that Microsoft currently does identification, verification and all

1102
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:54,000
of the data and backend and having centralized servers that is it better than that?

1103
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:55,040
Probably.

1104
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:57,360
Is it 10x better than that?

1105
01:16:57,360 --> 01:16:58,160
I don't know.

1106
01:16:58,160 --> 01:17:01,440
And that's usually a really good way to do that.

1107
01:17:01,440 --> 01:17:07,120
And that's usually a really good way to kind of look at whether this is a going back to

1108
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:08,240
what is money.

1109
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:12,720
If you're going to create a product or service that is going to make a lot of money and send

1110
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:17,760
a lot of Bitcoin into your coffers because you're creating value for society, you typically

1111
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:23,600
want it to be about a 10x value prop for anybody that's using legacy software or a legacy system

1112
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:24,800
over what they've got right now.

1113
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:26,480
I don't know if that's a 10x value capture.

1114
01:17:26,480 --> 01:17:26,960
Maybe it is.

1115
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:29,200
Let's see what happens.

1116
01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:31,520
Let's let the market test it out.

1117
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:35,440
Here's the thing that you would think all Bitcoiners would be for.

1118
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:38,720
This thing called a free and open market.

1119
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:41,680
Let's see what happens.

1120
01:17:42,160 --> 01:17:42,400
Right?

1121
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:48,720
In regards to the change in rule set that Preston was talking about, I do think that,

1122
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:54,160
yeah, of course, people can come together and they can lobby others to change the rule set.

1123
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:57,280
But we should have a culture where that is rare.

1124
01:17:57,280 --> 01:17:58,880
It's actually pretty rare to make changes.

1125
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:03,920
And then we also should have a culture where we're building towards some endpoint where

1126
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:09,200
no more changes occur because the change process is political in nature.

1127
01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:14,240
And it's, you know, Bitcoin is not meant to be a political system.

1128
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:18,800
And so we need to rid ourselves of that at some point in time.

1129
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:23,600
And again, on the rare point, that means that if we are going to have these changes occur

1130
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:30,480
rarely, that you might have to sit with things in Bitcoin that are uncomfortable or even lead.

1131
01:18:30,480 --> 01:18:36,240
You'd believe that Bitcoin is broken for much longer than you might want.

1132
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:40,080
And you're just going to have to stop being a little bitch and fucking deal with that.

1133
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:40,400
Okay.

1134
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:43,360
Freedom means other people get to do things you don't like.

1135
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:44,560
That's what freedom is.

1136
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:47,280
If you're European, it might be the first time you've ever heard the concept.

1137
01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:47,760
Welcome.

1138
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:49,760
Hilarious.

1139
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:50,800
Two things on that.

1140
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:58,640
One, there's a great quote by Mises that's basically like, the free market means that,

1141
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:02,640
and freedom in general, means that you have the right to be foolish.

1142
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:04,160
That's what it means.

1143
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:05,680
You have the right to make mistakes.

1144
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:09,200
And it's very, very true.

1145
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:16,080
The other point is that I think people can be very, very, very, very, very, very, very,

1146
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:17,680
very, very foolish.

1147
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:22,600
I'm not saying that I'm making a mistake, I'm just saying that I'm trying to, I'm trying

1148
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:26,100
to make the right decision.

1149
01:19:26,100 --> 01:19:29,140
I'm trying to make the right decision.

1150
01:19:29,140 --> 01:19:31,440
I'm trying to make the right decision.

1151
01:19:31,440 --> 01:19:39,760
But I think people get thrown off by the idea of ossification thinking that it's like a decision

1152
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:43,760
that is made versus a process that happens.

1153
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:44,280
Yes.

1154
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:52,080
a lot with SMTP. And so I think it's like, and it's also important to separate, I think

1155
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:56,960
in this debate, so much nuance gets lost because people are like, well, you know, you don't

1156
01:19:56,960 --> 01:20:01,560
want Bitcoin to change. Well, don't you understand that software needs maintenance? And it's

1157
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:08,440
like, of course it does. And we can also separate change, like massive changes that you're talking

1158
01:20:08,440 --> 01:20:15,880
about hodl, hodl, which can take a, or Canon should take a great deal of time and deliberation

1159
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:22,200
with the regular upkeep and maintenance of software that is very much required to maintain

1160
01:20:22,200 --> 01:20:29,680
a functioning code base. Like, but so much of it just kind of devolves into like, either

1161
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:35,600
you're a non-technical Luddite or you are a tinkering engineer who just wants to put

1162
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:39,440
your mark on something. And I think most of the truth is probably in the middle. And I

1163
01:20:39,440 --> 01:20:46,720
think that the people that are working on around and for Bitcoin generally have pretty

1164
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:50,840
good intentions, like unless we're just fully infiltrated by spooks. But even if that's

1165
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:55,120
the case, the beautiful thing about Bitcoin is that ultimately, if people are operating

1166
01:20:55,120 --> 01:21:00,080
in their self interests, the game theory is such that they will not want to make any changes

1167
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:06,080
that break Bitcoin. Because if you have any sort of material amount of wealth saved in

1168
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:11,560
Bitcoin, that would be very much not in your best interests. And that's kind of a beautiful

1169
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:15,960
thing. It's like, you're okay, like you're shooting, you know, you're cutting off your

1170
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:23,560
nose despite your face, basically. And so it's, I have a lot of, I have a lot of trust

1171
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:30,120
in this trustless system, may I say, but yeah, freedom means the freedom to make mistakes

1172
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:34,280
and be foolish and be a fucking idiot and do stuff that hurts you so that you get smarter.

1173
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:38,880
And that's how America was able to leapfrog everyone else in the entire fucking world

1174
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:45,720
in a couple hundred years, being just a colony of fucking insurrectionists, like because

1175
01:21:45,720 --> 01:21:50,320
we just fucked around and found out and then fucked around again, found out more and iterated

1176
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:57,120
and iterated and got better. Like that's, that's what freedom means. Anyway, get off

1177
01:21:57,120 --> 01:22:00,200
my little soapbox now.

1178
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:08,960
I'm one other thing I kind of wanted to, to generally talk about like was okay, with

1179
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:14,720
regard to the kind of samurai and also now that you saw that Phoenix wallet pulled out

1180
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:19,920
of the US was sobbing pulling out of the US, like, yes, you can use a VPN for certain of

1181
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:27,360
these functions like sure, but the larger trend of that, I'm curious if you think we have

1182
01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:32,840
some lawmakers who are vocally pro Bitcoin. And I think that that's, that's a great thing.

1183
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:39,880
It is certainly a tiny minority of them. Do you think we start to see a trend where again,

1184
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:46,680
lawmakers, elected officials get smart by force, not by choice and realize, you know,

1185
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:51,200
the whole look, you're going to push innovation offshore, which we very much see happening,

1186
01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:56,640
like it's not just a trope, it's a reality. I mean, America literally pushed a lot of

1187
01:22:56,640 --> 01:23:01,160
innovation and manufacturing offshore in a very purposeful way so we could export our

1188
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:05,280
inflation to other parts of the world. And again, being that consumer versus a net producer

1189
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:11,760
as we were previously, do you think we start to see a change here? Or do you think in some

1190
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:19,600
respects, the dye has been, you know, the dice have been cast and that you're too far

1191
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:24,040
gone. I think we're certainly too far gone to start onboarding manufacturing back to

1192
01:23:24,040 --> 01:23:31,320
the US, but that is a different sort of capital intensity and workforce skill level that is

1193
01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:39,320
required for a lot of that versus software, which is borderless. It would be a shame if

1194
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:45,120
the US closed itself off from so much of this because people are terrified of a, what is

1195
01:23:45,120 --> 01:23:50,280
supposed to be a country that operates under the rule of law, which seems to be operating

1196
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:56,520
under the rule of just rules. Now, not even laws, just rulemaking versus lawmaking. Like

1197
01:23:56,520 --> 01:24:02,200
that's what's scary to me. It's like people being scared that they may fall under a certain

1198
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:07,840
rule that is not even necessarily like codified law or been really clarified in a meaningful

1199
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:12,060
way by any courts, but they're just like, I'm not taking that risk. I don't want to

1200
01:24:12,060 --> 01:24:15,600
go to jail and I don't blame people. I would, I don't want to go, I've got a family. I don't

1201
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:22,760
want to go to jail. Like, where do you think we're at with that? And again, when it comes

1202
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:29,800
to bucking that trend, does it just come down to, okay, either high level changes at leadership

1203
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:36,400
or parallel systems being built out by people who say, well, maybe I do go to jail, but

1204
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:46,520
you know, I'm okay with that. It's a loaded question I know.

1205
01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:52,960
I'm thinking through it. I'll go, I'll go on this. So at the end of the day, it goes

1206
01:24:52,960 --> 01:24:57,280
back to a comment that I, that I made earlier in the show, which is, I think that you're,

1207
01:24:57,280 --> 01:25:01,480
you're large, when you look at how much financialization and how much banking happens here in the United

1208
01:25:01,480 --> 01:25:06,960
States relative to other parts of the world. This is a massive industry inside the United

1209
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:13,840
States is banking and just finance in general. If you don't think that they're behind the

1210
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:19,600
FinCEN proposal and the execution of all of this to force, if you're going to play ball

1211
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:23,720
in the United States, it's going to be through some type of custody service from a payment

1212
01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:30,680
standpoint. And if it's not custodied by some entity on your behalf inside the United States,

1213
01:25:30,680 --> 01:25:35,160
you're not welcome here. And we're going to use everything we've got with the DOJ through

1214
01:25:35,160 --> 01:25:41,440
the FinCEN, all the stuff that's gone through with FinCEN to enforce and to scare the living

1215
01:25:41,440 --> 01:25:47,320
hell out of anybody that's trying to do to give an individual the ability to custody from

1216
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:52,280
a payment standpoint. Okay, that's the message. And I don't think that they're going to back

1217
01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:58,160
down from that regardless of who's in party or who the, who the, who the party is. And

1218
01:25:58,160 --> 01:26:07,120
the reason why is because behind these politicians are the banks who are scared to death of this.

1219
01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:13,200
Okay. And if you think that they're just going to not pay off the next person who's, who's

1220
01:26:13,200 --> 01:26:17,880
in charge, whether that's Republican or Democrat, it's because you're super naive and you don't

1221
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:22,840
understand how the game is being played. So you just really have to look at the incentives

1222
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:27,880
to understand why the actions that we're seeing. Now, all the countries that don't have deep

1223
01:26:27,880 --> 01:26:32,960
banking and financial services as a core industry, I think what you're going to find is they

1224
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:39,200
are going to open, they're going to be welcoming these, these developers and people with open

1225
01:26:39,200 --> 01:26:46,960
arms to come on into our domains and our jurisdictions and build, come here and build.

1226
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:51,240
Now I hope I'm really wrong about that. I hope that some of this gets reversed and,

1227
01:26:51,240 --> 01:26:58,440
you know, with maybe a new administration, maybe we see a tide and a change of the guard

1228
01:26:58,440 --> 01:27:04,200
with respect to some of this and a lot of the FinCEN proposal gets unwound. I'm very

1229
01:27:04,200 --> 01:27:08,180
suspect of that. And it's not me trying to be a pessimist. It's me just looking at the

1230
01:27:08,180 --> 01:27:12,040
incentive structure and looking at the size of the financial industry. And I'm saying

1231
01:27:12,040 --> 01:27:18,280
they cannot, they're going to be dead in a doornail if they just let this take root.

1232
01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:23,800
So I think those are, I think that's the, that's the game theory kind of playing out

1233
01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:29,360
right before our eyes. That doesn't mean I like it. In fact, I actually hate it. I think

1234
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:34,280
it's very bad for America and any other developed nation state that's, that's leaning into these

1235
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:39,800
policies. But I think with enough time, it's, you know, it's a losing battle. That is a

1236
01:27:39,800 --> 01:27:49,080
losing hand, but it's a, it's a, it's a short term stop the bleeding hand that's being played.

1237
01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:56,200
So with the exception of one of the samurai devs, I believe that all of the samurai guys

1238
01:27:56,200 --> 01:28:02,360
and all of the whirlpool people were outside the US, right? And so the US hegemony is so

1239
01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:06,720
large, the dollar hegemony is so large that it doesn't matter where in the world you

1240
01:28:06,720 --> 01:28:12,880
are. The extremely long dick of Uncle Sam can fuck you from anywhere, right? So you have

1241
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:17,880
to be very careful, even if you're not an American, when you're interacting with Americans

1242
01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:22,040
and when you're interacting with US dollars, if you're doing those two things, you are

1243
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:26,840
going to be subject to US regulating authorities, right? Like number one. And then number two,

1244
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:33,320
I think Preston is dead on the money about, you know, them, the bank, it's Wall Street

1245
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:40,160
and it's DC and they're both against Bitcoin as medium of exchange. And DC is especially

1246
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:43,400
against Bitcoin as a unit of account, obviously, right? Because that's the dollar's role. So

1247
01:28:43,400 --> 01:28:47,120
is medium of exchange. That's the dollar's role, how they both see it. And they don't

1248
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:52,080
want to let Bitcoin escape from the walled garden they think they're creating. They're

1249
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:56,520
trying to get OIs Bitcoin. They're trying to co-opt to Bitcoin. It's, it should be obvious

1250
01:28:56,520 --> 01:29:00,880
to everybody who's paying attention and store value is meaningless. It's for a long time,

1251
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:05,600
we've been saying that like Wall Street and Bitcoin, we are ambivalent. We have a totally

1252
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:09,880
ambivalent relationship. And the reason why is because we are only aligned on number go

1253
01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:16,400
up. They are not aligned on freedom tech in the slightest. And as Bitcoiners, obviously

1254
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:21,440
that's anathema to some of our worldview, right? But at the same time, listen, I mean,

1255
01:29:21,440 --> 01:29:25,080
you're a meat puppet that lives on government land and like they can throw you in a cage

1256
01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:28,840
if you're doing things that are deemed to be illegal. So you got to be smart and you

1257
01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:34,240
got to, you got to be legal in your operations and you got to like go through the long journey

1258
01:29:34,240 --> 01:29:39,880
of seeing, seeing Bitcoin through. And if it does reach a period of co-option, attempted

1259
01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:44,920
co-option, shadow prohibition, whatever we might be facing down the bar, whatever we're

1260
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:49,560
looking down the barrel of right now, you need to be in it playing the long game. You

1261
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:55,040
need to be in it for the long term because this is a generational project. And it's not

1262
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:58,960
like we're, it's not like it's going to be easy, bro, separate money and state. It's

1263
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:02,800
going to be fucking hard. It's going to take a long time. It's going to take a lot of human

1264
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:07,600
effort. Like if you showed up thinking, oh, next month we're separating money and state,

1265
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:12,240
like I'm sorry, but that's, that's not going to happen. This is a really big deal. And

1266
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:17,000
the weird thing is at the same time that all this is going on and this is the backdrop,

1267
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:22,000
right, we're going to be getting rich in terms of number go up, but we're going to be like

1268
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:26,880
getting rich and losing freedom, getting rich and losing freedoms. And it's going to feel

1269
01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:34,320
weird and dysphoric, but my, my optimistic perspective of it is that it's not permanent,

1270
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:40,720
that it's a temporary state of affairs and that as Bitcoiners become richer, that they

1271
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:44,360
will be able to have a seat at the table of power and be able to help rewrite some of

1272
01:30:44,360 --> 01:30:48,360
these rule sets to say what is and is not fair. I mean, look at like the people that are in

1273
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:53,920
power now, a lot of them were, you know, Woodstock hippies or they were part of the

1274
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:57,760
weather underground or the Black Panther movement or whatever. And now they all have a seat

1275
01:30:57,760 --> 01:31:00,880
at the table. Now they're all telling us, you know, how we have to live and they're

1276
01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:05,400
wokifying our society. So they won. They did a long march through the institution similar

1277
01:31:05,400 --> 01:31:09,600
to the Maoist insurrection in China and they won. Good for them, but you know, they're

1278
01:31:09,600 --> 01:31:14,160
also extremely old and it's not going to last very long, right? Nothing is, nothing is permanent

1279
01:31:14,160 --> 01:31:20,400
in American life. And yeah, we have a, it's a long journey ahead of us. So hunker down

1280
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:21,320
for the winter.

1281
01:31:21,320 --> 01:31:27,520
You mentioned just the store of value doesn't really matter. And I think you meant that

1282
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:33,080
in the context, I believe of just like, it doesn't matter to the, it doesn't matter to

1283
01:31:33,080 --> 01:31:35,920
the people who are pulling the strings. It doesn't matter to Wall Street, doesn't matter

1284
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:42,560
to DC. Like they don't care too much. Is that what you meant? Or more like general sense.

1285
01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:48,840
Their store of value is Apple stock and houses in the Hamptons and foreign real estate and

1286
01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:53,600
Cayman shell corporations. That's their, those are their stores of value, right? And

1287
01:31:53,600 --> 01:31:58,160
Bitcoin and also Bitcoin. Bitcoin will be one of their stores of value as well. You know,

1288
01:31:58,160 --> 01:32:01,120
I mean, it's, it's an infinite container for wealth. It's extremely good at storing

1289
01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:05,400
value. They're going to want Bitcoin too. So I, I, what I'm, what I'm saying is that

1290
01:32:05,400 --> 01:32:11,640
store of value doesn't allow them to, you know, weaponize political ideology against

1291
01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:16,200
rivals the same way medium exchange does. Look at what happened with Russia and the

1292
01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:20,800
Swift system when they're action against Ukraine took place, right? The minute they

1293
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:25,320
invaded Ukraine, we cut them off a swift, swift, we weaponize our treasury system against

1294
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:31,400
them. The dollar is, the dollar is a weapon. And once you see it, you can't unsee it.

1295
01:32:31,400 --> 01:32:34,720
It's America's largest weapon. You know, the nuclear arsenal is second.

1296
01:32:34,720 --> 01:32:39,760
Yeah. That's kind of a, it's very true. And it's also very dark, right? And it's, it's

1297
01:32:39,760 --> 01:32:45,880
also the weapon that is easiest to, to use without people saying you're, you're attacking

1298
01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:52,120
us, right? Because hey, we're not shedding any blood, right? We're not, we're not beheading

1299
01:32:52,120 --> 01:33:00,600
anyone. We're just cutting you off. But it's like, it all comes back to, do you really

1300
01:33:00,600 --> 01:33:06,840
have any freedoms if you don't have the freedom to transact freely? Because anything else

1301
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:12,080
you want to do like, okay, freedom of speech. Great. Well, where do you want to speak? Like

1302
01:33:12,080 --> 01:33:15,080
do you want to, do you want to go somewhere? You want, you want to, you want to, you want

1303
01:33:15,080 --> 01:33:20,160
to go to fly somewhere and speak at a protest? Well, I'm sorry, your, that card's been declined.

1304
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:24,960
Also you're on the no fly list. Do you want to say it online? Well, sorry, your ISP is

1305
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:28,200
now blocking you and we're not going to accept your payments and your bank accounts have

1306
01:33:28,200 --> 01:33:33,200
been frozen. You can't even afford those payments anyway. Like you want to, a freedom of religion.

1307
01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:36,920
You want to build a church? I'm sorry, you have your accounts have been frozen again.

1308
01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:40,960
Like so much of it. And it sounds, I think people sometimes come after Bitcoiners a bit

1309
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:44,880
because they say, thank you, you're being overly reductionist. You're being too simplistic.

1310
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:49,120
You're saying that Bitcoin fixes this, Bitcoin fixes this, but like, look at all these problems

1311
01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:54,120
we have. How can Bitcoin possibly fix this? And I think that what they miss is that when

1312
01:33:54,120 --> 01:34:00,160
the base layer of what you're working with is so irrevocably broken, nothing, nothing

1313
01:34:00,160 --> 01:34:03,720
else matters. Anything else you try to do is a bandaid. It's not, you're not curing the

1314
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:09,400
disease. You're, you're slapping a bandaid on a oozing ulcer that is just going to keep

1315
01:34:09,400 --> 01:34:12,720
growing and growing and growing. It's not going to, it might make you feel a little

1316
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:18,080
bit better for a second. It might look good. It might be like, ah, yes, I'm doing something,

1317
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:22,440
but you're not. You're just, you're just pretending that the deeper disease doesn't exist or you're

1318
01:34:22,440 --> 01:34:29,720
completely ignorant of it in the first place. But on that somewhat dark, ulcerated note,

1319
01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:34,800
I'd like to end, uh, and be conscious of both of your scarce time, which I again, appreciate

1320
01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:39,680
you sharing with me, but I want to end on kind of a positive note. And so maybe just,

1321
01:34:39,680 --> 01:34:47,440
uh, what makes you hopeful? Um, or if, if that one you'd rather not answer, uh, what

1322
01:34:47,440 --> 01:34:53,040
piece of uplifting advice would you give to somebody who is looking at the world right

1323
01:34:53,040 --> 01:34:59,920
now and saying, man, everything seems just screwed. And like there doesn't seem to be

1324
01:34:59,920 --> 01:35:06,360
a way out of this. And how do I possibly have hope in a time when it's so easy to be nihilistic?

1325
01:35:06,360 --> 01:35:11,840
I guess I can go first. So, uh, you know, people ask me all the time, Oh my God, why

1326
01:35:11,840 --> 01:35:16,720
are you not, you know, super worried about this or whatever? You know, when I went to

1327
01:35:16,720 --> 01:35:21,400
combat, it sucked. This is pretty much the worst experience a person could ever go through.

1328
01:35:21,400 --> 01:35:29,680
And it was, uh, horrific. It was, uh, the location was terrible. What I experienced was terrible,

1329
01:35:29,680 --> 01:35:36,360
but what that experience gave me was context. Um, you know, if you're going to paint a picture,

1330
01:35:36,360 --> 01:35:41,400
you need the poles of the colors in order to create the contrast in order to paint the

1331
01:35:41,400 --> 01:35:47,440
picture. For me in my life, when I look at that experience that I went through, um, it's

1332
01:35:47,440 --> 01:35:54,560
provided this backdrop in this context for happiness and abundance and, uh, how bad things

1333
01:35:54,560 --> 01:36:00,280
could be and how amazing they can be. Um, what's your, what people are going through

1334
01:36:00,280 --> 01:36:05,280
right now, they might be struggling really bad. Um, and what I would say is you're just,

1335
01:36:05,280 --> 01:36:10,800
it's, it's the context to your life's picture that you're painting yourself. And you have

1336
01:36:10,800 --> 01:36:16,880
this massive opportunity to harness this thing. Uh, since I found Bitcoin a decade ago, like

1337
01:36:16,880 --> 01:36:22,360
nearly a decade ago, my life just keeps getting better every single day. It really does. And

1338
01:36:22,360 --> 01:36:27,800
I'm not saying that to like, uh, sound like a jerk. I'm saying it because other people

1339
01:36:27,800 --> 01:36:33,120
can have this same opportunity. Um, as long as they are producing some type of excess

1340
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:37,640
in their life and they can preserve it and freeze it into this thing that's going to

1341
01:36:37,640 --> 01:36:41,360
help be their salvation is there, is there moving forward in their life that they're

1342
01:36:41,360 --> 01:36:46,640
not going to continue to be robbed from, uh, with the work and the energy that they've

1343
01:36:46,640 --> 01:36:50,680
already performed in that they can cash that in whenever they want to, whenever they want

1344
01:36:50,680 --> 01:36:56,560
to cash it in the future. So the future is very bright from a macro standpoint, you're

1345
01:36:56,560 --> 01:36:59,440
looking at what these countries are going to go. There's going to be hardship. There's

1346
01:36:59,440 --> 01:37:05,220
going to be pain. There's going to be, uh, a lot of variance and volatility in what's

1347
01:37:05,220 --> 01:37:12,840
taking place with this reset. And you know what, that's life. That's any life. Um, that's

1348
01:37:12,840 --> 01:37:18,520
nature that you're going to be going through such volatility. So I guess my recommendation

1349
01:37:18,520 --> 01:37:25,840
for people is embrace the chaos. Enjoy the chaos. When you have a bad day, it's just

1350
01:37:25,840 --> 01:37:31,680
providing that backdrop and that contrast for you to appreciate tomorrow when it's better.

1351
01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:37,280
Um, and, uh, I, I'm just, I feel so blessed to be a part of this movement, to be around

1352
01:37:37,280 --> 01:37:43,520
people like both of you two. And, uh, and I just, you know, it's, it's in the eye of

1353
01:37:43,520 --> 01:37:47,640
the beholder as to where you're going to focus your energy, what you're going to work on

1354
01:37:47,640 --> 01:37:53,720
and how you're going to provide value for other people that's going to bring you true

1355
01:37:53,720 --> 01:37:59,120
pleasure in your life. We, we, we're talking about like the finish line, the finish line

1356
01:37:59,120 --> 01:38:05,560
is how can you add more value and, and, uh, abundance and happiness to other people's

1357
01:38:05,560 --> 01:38:10,920
lives? Because in that process, what you're going to find is you're making yourself extremely

1358
01:38:10,920 --> 01:38:17,480
happy and fulfilled yourself. So like the, what an opportunity to be sitting here at

1359
01:38:17,480 --> 01:38:26,480
these crossroads, uh, in, in this great reset to figure out a way to re-engineer and rewire

1360
01:38:26,480 --> 01:38:32,440
the world for efficiency and abundance for others. Like what an opportunity.

1361
01:38:32,440 --> 01:38:39,520
Hey man, I think, um, the biggest piece of advice I would give to anybody, especially

1362
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:48,640
somebody who's young is tell the truth just broadly. Because I think a lot of us are used

1363
01:38:48,640 --> 01:38:58,880
to using lies to get through, uh, to make compromises, to deal with things that are very

1364
01:38:58,880 --> 01:39:05,040
hard to cope with. And I think those lies build up a lot of dead wood around us and

1365
01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:12,040
cause us to be unable to move freely. And they cause us to be unable to live the life that

1366
01:39:12,040 --> 01:39:16,240
we're supposed to live. And I don't know if you've seen this with a family member, but

1367
01:39:16,240 --> 01:39:20,880
you know, I've been there with people who've lived their life in this manner at the end

1368
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:25,280
of their life when they're on hospice care. And it's like there's a boulder sitting on

1369
01:39:25,280 --> 01:39:29,640
their chest, they can't get out from under. And the reality of what they could have been

1370
01:39:29,640 --> 01:39:35,480
is crushing them in that moment. And if you've ever seen that and experienced that, uh, you

1371
01:39:35,480 --> 01:39:41,400
will do anything not to become that. And speaking the truth out loud is scary. It's why people

1372
01:39:41,400 --> 01:39:47,320
don't do it. Um, because when you start saying things that are true, a lot of the lies that

1373
01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:51,320
you've built up around yourself are going to come tumbling down and you're not going

1374
01:39:51,320 --> 01:39:55,880
to be able to live in the dissonance any longer and you're going to be exposed and vulnerable.

1375
01:39:55,880 --> 01:40:01,560
Right. But also life becomes very beautiful. Suddenly the right people, they gravitate

1376
01:40:01,560 --> 01:40:07,440
towards you. You find yourself in better environments, the right environments. You find yourself on

1377
01:40:07,440 --> 01:40:12,680
the path that you're supposed to be. If things are very clear to you, you're looking out

1378
01:40:12,680 --> 01:40:18,320
in the distance and your life's trajectory is obvious. It's probably because you're on

1379
01:40:18,320 --> 01:40:22,880
somebody else's path. If you're on your own path, it'll be sort of murky. You'll be feeling

1380
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:29,320
your way through. So start saying what you think is true. Don't just type it anonymously

1381
01:40:29,320 --> 01:40:33,320
on Twitter, say it out loud with your full chest, stand behind it, say it to the people

1382
01:40:33,320 --> 01:40:38,680
in your real life, and it will take you where you need to go. I promise you. And then in

1383
01:40:38,680 --> 01:40:45,000
terms of like what makes me hopeful, it's the thing that makes me the most hopeful is

1384
01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:50,560
all of the people that are waking up to what's going on in the world. And it's not just in

1385
01:40:50,560 --> 01:40:59,640
Bitcoin, but it's everywhere now. There was a Palestinian, Israeli protests the other

1386
01:40:59,640 --> 01:41:02,600
day. I don't know where in the world it was, but it was a bunch of young people. So it's

1387
01:41:02,600 --> 01:41:08,280
probably on some college campus. It might have been at UCLA. And the Israeli side and

1388
01:41:08,280 --> 01:41:14,720
the Palestinian side were both chanting, fuck Joe Biden. That's beautiful, man. That's

1389
01:41:14,720 --> 01:41:24,120
America. They both hated the president for totally different reasons. I mean, come on.

1390
01:41:24,120 --> 01:41:30,080
If that doesn't make you hopeful that the American spirit is still alive. We're an unruly

1391
01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:37,760
people. We're supposed to be unruly and free and dirty and unwashed and crass. That is the

1392
01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:46,080
American ethic and ethos live free, baby or die. Okay.

1393
01:41:46,080 --> 01:41:51,880
I love it. What a beautiful note to wrap up on. One thing I will just point out is that

1394
01:41:51,880 --> 01:41:57,600
Preston did say I have the beholder, but I guess a hodl, you'd say I have the be hodler

1395
01:41:57,600 --> 01:42:02,280
and that sounds totally normal and natural to you, which is fine.

1396
01:42:02,280 --> 01:42:09,280
Yeah. It sounds a little gay. It sounds like a gay thing. You said it. You said it, not

1397
01:42:09,280 --> 01:42:17,080
me. Well, guys, I want to thank you both a lot. You're two people in this space who

1398
01:42:17,080 --> 01:42:24,760
I've had the pleasure of meeting in person a number of times now. And it's really, it's

1399
01:42:24,760 --> 01:42:28,760
always enlightening talking to you both. And I appreciate the way you approach things.

1400
01:42:28,760 --> 01:42:35,600
And I appreciate your positivity and also your, your ruthless, Jesus can't speak now,

1401
01:42:35,600 --> 01:42:41,920
ruthless logic that comes across because I think that that's really important. And I

1402
01:42:41,920 --> 01:42:48,800
think it's important for also for people to hear these sorts of hopeful messages. Again,

1403
01:42:48,800 --> 01:42:54,960
there's a lot of shit like shit. Excuse me. There's a lot of shit going down. Whoa.

1404
01:42:54,960 --> 01:43:03,440
Keep it going. No, don't take a sip. That was the radio voice. There's a lot of shit

1405
01:43:03,440 --> 01:43:08,640
going down. No, but there is a lot of shit going down, but there's so many reasons to

1406
01:43:08,640 --> 01:43:15,560
be hopeful. There's like not a small one of them being the people that you have a chance

1407
01:43:15,560 --> 01:43:21,160
to meet through this incredible space. Yeah. So I want to thank you both. Thank you for

1408
01:43:21,160 --> 01:43:29,120
your time. I'll link your no-ster and Twitter, I guess, in the show notes. And I look forward

1409
01:43:29,120 --> 01:43:33,800
to seeing you both in the flesh soon. And thank you both again for your time.

1410
01:43:33,800 --> 01:43:40,400
Bro, before we go, I'm just going to say I was in the UK with Preston and Jeff Booth.

1411
01:43:40,400 --> 01:43:45,600
And I left the bar at 3.30 AM. And these savages were still going hard, bro. I left

1412
01:43:45,600 --> 01:43:52,360
before them. Jeff Booth was partying like an animal. It was amazing. I mean, honestly,

1413
01:43:52,360 --> 01:43:57,000
the Canadians will surprise you. You never know what they're going to pull out of. They're

1414
01:43:57,000 --> 01:44:01,720
an unruly bunch too. They're just more polite about their unruliness, I think. There's no

1415
01:44:01,720 --> 01:44:09,440
way I could let Jeff Booth stay out later than you have to. Come on. I love it. I love

1416
01:44:09,440 --> 01:44:14,320
it. So good. Well, I look forward to closing down the bar and having Preston, you and Jeff

1417
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:21,320
outlast me next time we see each other. Yes. Very important highlight their haughtiness.

1418
01:44:21,320 --> 01:44:34,520
Yeah. And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin Talk episode of The Bitcoin Podcast. If you are

1419
01:44:34,520 --> 01:44:41,320
a Bitcoin-only company interested in sponsoring another fucking Bitcoin podcast, head to bitcoinpodcast.net

1420
01:44:41,320 --> 01:44:47,560
slash sponsor. If you're enjoying The Bitcoin Podcast, consider giving a five-star review

1421
01:44:47,560 --> 01:44:52,800
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1422
01:44:52,800 --> 01:44:57,720
care. You can find me on Noster by going to primal.net slash Walker. And if you want to

1423
01:44:57,720 --> 01:45:04,080
follow The Bitcoin Podcast on Twitter, go to at Titcoin Podcast and at Walker America.

1424
01:45:04,080 --> 01:45:09,480
You can also find the video version of this podcast at youtube.com slash at Walker America

1425
01:45:09,480 --> 01:45:16,040
and at Walker America on Rumble. Bitcoin is scarce. There will only ever be 21 million,

1426
01:45:16,040 --> 01:45:21,640
but Bitcoin podcasts are abundant. So thank you for spending your scarce time to listen

1427
01:45:21,640 --> 01:45:39,400
to another fucking Bitcoin podcast. Until next time, stay free.