This is why Bitcoin exists. This is why we fight and while we are in Bitcoin, it's not just number go up.
Right? This is because Bitcoin, because if this happens to your country
and fiat payments cancel in your country, well, you're fucked unless you have Bitcoin, right?
And so that's why you need to have this Bitcoin as a tool, as a bridge to bring humanity together.
Because the fiat system is keeping and creating these divisions.
You know, divisions, borders, arbitrary rules that exclude some people over others
for some arbitrary reason. And Bitcoin actually connects us all. Bitcoin connects us all. There's no
there's no excuse anymore to not help someone who's suffering on the other part of the world,
because Bitcoin connects you. And the only the only this connection is actually in your
mind and in your heart and in your intent. So that's what's beautiful. Bitcoin actually gives us the choice to do good.
Greetings and salutations, my fellow plebs. My name is Walker and this is the Bitcoin podcast.
The Bitcoin time chain is 852361 and the value of one Bitcoin is still one Bitcoin.
Today's episode is Bitcoin talk where I talk with my guest about Bitcoin and whatever else comes up.
Today, that guest is MetaMic. Mic is the co founder and CEO of Geyser, which in case you didn't know,
allows you to crowdfund your ideas from anywhere in the world and received donations and product
sales directly into your Bitcoin wallet. Mic and I go deep into the problem with crowdfunding
platforms like GoFundMe and Kickstarter, talk about building on Bitcoin and lightning,
NoSter and its future potential. And we also talk about an incredible project on Geyser right now
that's raising money to aid innocent civilians in Gaza. The project has raised over 270 million
sat so far. That's over $150,000 if you want to measure it in fiat. And if you want to donate,
you can go to the link in the show notes to check it out on Geyser. It's projects like these where
only Bitcoin can reach the people in need. They completely destroy the tired old FUD narratives
pushed by privileged Western elites. This was a really inspiring discussion. Thank you to Mic
for coming on and I know anyone listening, you're going to love this fair warning that
Mics audio quality was a little rough for the first 10 minutes, but we got it fixed and the rest
of the episode sounds great after that. If you'd rather watch this show than listen,
head to the show notes for links to watch on YouTube, Rumble and now on NoSter via highlighter.
But if you're like me and you prefer to just listen to your podcasts, I highly recommend you
check out fountain.fm. Not only can you send Bitcoin to your favorite podcasters to give value
for value, but you can earn Bitcoin just for listening to this and other podcasts. Finally,
if you like this show and want to support it, you can head to the show notes for links from
my sponsors and partners. You can also go to my newly created geyser.fund slash project slash
TIT coin page to donate to the show via geyser. Or you can always just zap me on NoSter, you can
boost this on fountain, whatever you want. It truly appreciate everyone who has supported
this show so far, either by giving sats or just by sharing the show with your network. Without
further ado, let's get into this Bitcoin talk with MetaMic. Well, Mick, welcome. Thanks so much for
coming on another fucking Bitcoin podcast. It's great to have you here.
Such a pleasure to be here. Thanks so much for the invite Walker.
Yeah. And you know, I, I reached out, I've actually wanted to have you on the show for a while,
but I reached out specifically because of your recent piece in Bitcoin magazine and some of the
recent, like pretty incredible fundraising that's happened through geyser for Gaza and through
the like really insane amount of Bitcoin that's been raised through this. And I want to get into
that. I'd like to get into that in some detail, but maybe first just, I just like to start off
for, for people that don't know you with a simple question and take it however you want. But that's
just who are you and how did you get here today to be doing what you're doing?
I have a question. So I'm just a simple humble bit coiner really. I've been down the orange
grill and journey like most bit coiners. I've been blessed with humility. And I think that's
really maybe one of the key characters that helped me appreciate Bitcoin because in several points
in my life, I thought I knew stuff. I thought I got a degree and that made me knowledgeable of
something and an expert in something, then realizing that actually it was all wrong and Bitcoin
kind of did that for me as well. So I studied anthropology and economics. And so I was always
really kind of appreciative of the fact that well, these are very different perspectives and
and they could both be true or correct. But essentially, knowing how to navigate uncertainty
has always been something that I am comfortable with and navigating mainly uncertainty. And so,
yeah, I discovered Bitcoin in 2016, 2016, 2017 and really got to really know it better in 2018,
2019 when I read the Bitcoin standard. But overall, that point, I was just working in the tech space
as a UX designer. So I was just a designer working for technology companies, financial
companies, big banks, building tools that people can use. Basically, I've always been a fan of
user-centric design and building technology that lifts people up, that brings people forward,
that moves humanity forward. I'm a big believer that technology is how we bring humanity forward
and reach, lift everyone up at the same time. Technology is a democratizing tool that lifts
adults. So with that, I saw Bitcoin from a similar lens. And I was then kind of keen to
explore the space, ended up working for a year in a front of a front of mine, sort of a small
company, which ended up pivoting to being an Ethereum company. So I was like, where am I?
What am I doing? This is really not what I signed up for. I'm not really like, this is not going
to go anywhere. At the same time, I was running my Bitcoin node and I was reading on the stuff about
Ethereum proof of stake changes and what that meant for decentralization. I was like, what the
fuck am I doing with my life? But if there was one positive thing of that entire experience,
which there were many, but I also didn't feel at home, but there was one positive thing. I was
realizing how much development and how much creative people there were around the Ethereum space.
Also, thanks to these kind of crowdfunding platforms that existed on Ethereum, including
like Merer and Gitcoin. And I realized there's no such thing in Bitcoin. There's no decent
platform that also uses lightning for creatives to monetize and make it easy for them to monetize.
Of course, all the hall had their own token and the hall were shilling in and it was just disgusting.
But what I did appreciate was this fact of just having a platform that enabled creators to
fundraise their ideas and make their ideas happen. What Bitcoins were doing, they were like
Neanderthals just sharing QR codes on Twitter. I was like, what the fuck is going on here?
So I was like, I was upon me to try to do something about it. So I ended up producing some mockups
of a platform that I was thinking about and a crowdfunding platform and then reached out to
Frenomind Stelios, who ended up being co-founder and CTO of Geyser. And so together we were able to
initially bootstrap this venture for a year and then eventually get some investor funding.
And we were really keen to get them to ensure that we were only Bitcoin investors that would be
joining this venture. So yeah, it's been a crazy journey, man. It's been a crazy journey. I'm
absolutely every day I wake up, I'm like, I cannot believe where I am, what an honor. But it's yeah,
it's been great so far and hopefully that summarizes it. No, it does very well and I always
appreciate the background. Can imagine you felt perhaps like a little bit of a fish out of water
surrounded by a lot of Aetherians at the time. And I think, well, I'd like to get into kind of
the nuts and bolts of Geyser a little bit, but some people may ask, well, why does a platform
like Geyser use Bitcoin at all? Why not use Ethereum or Solana because it isn't Solana so fast?
And so I mean, why did you decide to really build on and around Bitcoin and only Bitcoin,
not to have other altcoins or shitcoins in the mix? What made Bitcoin fit for this purpose?
Yeah, really good question. Because the mission is to empower and emancipate the creator economy
and the online creators. So the question is why then Bitcoin? Well, because we're at least our
vision and our vision of the internet is a vision where Bitcoin is the money of the internet,
where everything else will go to zero and where in time it will take time. And I think there's
actually a role for other things in the sort of short to medium terms, like maybe stablecoins,
but for the long run, we're in for the long run. We see Bitcoin as being the best
monitor instrument for online peer-to-peer exchange, as simple as that. And not only that,
but also lightning. So Bitcoin is actually the truth, is essentially this ledger of truth.
Lightning is actually that peer-to-peer kind of transactional layer of money on the internet.
And so when you start seeing that 80% of all your transactions use light on a Bitcoin platform,
use lightning, you're like, okay, well, Bitcoin is great for sending high amount of money, but
for the creator economy, for people fundraising for initiative, lightning will be just essentially
orders of manages a better means of payment where you don't have to worry about fees as much, where
the payments are instant, where you don't have to wait 10 minutes to receive it,
where you can send us for one Satoshi micro transaction. And there's no fear of sending
money to the wrong address, which is also a big concern. So yeah, all this, and this really
kind of exactly pointed out relates to me running my node and understanding what that felt like and
what that was about, and realizing that any platform built for the next generation, for the
newer era will need to integrate lightning deeply. And so that's how we built Geyser. Geyser is
lightning native. It's natively built on lightning. You plug your lightning address, you plug your
node, and then every transaction goes over to lightning. And we then have on chain payments
as well. But then again, even the on chain payments are routed over to lightning. Sorry.
You're good, man. Got excited there. We also do have an announcement. I'm not going to say too
much yet, because it's not, it's not something that's live yet. But we do also, we do also plan
to integrate fiat payments in some form, but in a way that again is lightning native. So imagine
a world where the creator gets paid in Bitcoin, but the founder can pay you know, pay you know,
with fiat. I'll leave it at that for now. But that's kind of what the world we see, right? So
enable payments and however way you want, you know, we'll fiat on chain, Bitcoin, maybe stable coins,
but then everything ends up on lightning because lightning, because then every lightning wallet
will have their own optionality of how to receive the payment. Right. If you're in the United States,
strike will enable, you know, instance swap to fiat. If you're in Nigeria, you can receive,
you can enable instance swap to the Nigerian Ida and so forth. And in the Philippines,
Polish can enable instance swap over to their Philippine currency. So Bitcoin and lightning
ends up being just like this network, this abstract payment layer that can unplug into every
region with its own on ramps. So Bitcoin, you know, gather operating at an other layer can fulfill
transactions seamlessly. And yeah, and then also at the same time, in terms of the descending,
in terms of the receiving, sorry, for the receiving for the sending, again, we want to enable payments
to come through in many different ways as well. I love it. So one thing I think is kind of interesting
is that you hear a lot from various people who shall not be named that lightning doesn't work,
lightning doesn't scale, lightning is just kind of this funny toy that Bitcoiners like to use
as an excuse to make up for all of Bitcoin layer ones inadequacies when it comes to
speed and and small payments. But you have just indicated you guys are a company that is
a lightning native, you are built on lightning. So I mean, can you speak to a little bit about
that? Because obviously lightning is is working for you guys. So question one would be, where
do you think this disconnect comes from with people saying, I like, you know, lightning doesn't
work, lightning doesn't work, you know, buy my shitcoin versus your actual experience building
a lightning native company? Yeah, yeah, really good question. So I think probably some of the
bigger influence for me has come from reading Nick Bhatia's The Layered Money, which I'm sure
you're familiar with. And and that and I think definitely a few other people and thinkers, but
Nick Bhatia really lays it out very clearly by explaining that every monetary system is built
on top of on these layers and every layer fulfills a particular set of functions within a set of
of trade offs. And the function of Bitcoin is to provide this unchangeable truth,
unchangeable universal truth that we can all agree upon. And that's really things like 21 million,
right? At things like, you know, this decentralization, everyone can run their
node and so forth. With Bitcoin Cash, people were like, you know what, we're going to sacrifice
some of the scalability problems for for just like increasing the block size. But you know,
that just leads to, you know, making it much more expensive for people to run their nodes.
And so not anymore, even if Bitcoin scales, like it's you're still going to have to change rules,
like the foundational rules again, which again doesn't I mean, to me, man doesn't make sense of
sacrificing that key property of Bitcoin as hard money, you're sacrificing that by
applying these really, really hard changes that could lead to capture down the road.
So for me, lightning is not perfect, because we still have, you know, some set of trade offs that
we decided to offset. So a lot of them relate to say, for example, yeah, just the like the
challenges with lightning now, a lot of the providers are custodial, and that's not great. But
at all, these are all trade offs that are happening on other layers. So people can still opt out of
lightning and decide to go over to Bitcoin on chain. And so that truth is not sacrificed, that sort
of unchangeable property of money is not being sacrificed. So yeah, so that for me,
remained really, really important. And just like I think also the other answer to that is just
using Bitcoin lightning is just once you start using it, you can go back the UX of it is truly
phenomenal. It's just so much more I used to say like, using Bitcoin is painful because the UX of
it but also like you're often by using Bitcoin, you actually are discarding a lot of Bitcoin,
but spending stats is joyful because sending 21 sets, it's not only a credible UX, but also you're
sending smaller amounts. And just in the end, you're not paying attention to how many zaps you're
giving your sort of things equal out in the end, you know? So that's sort of how I felt about it.
I love that and completely agree with the zaps that are flowing in and out. It's like, I'm not
counting that when I'm using Nostra. It's just, yeah, zaps go in, zaps go out, and you're just
giving value to things you find valuable and it's pretty frictionless too. And as you said, sure,
there are trade-offs. Of course there are. And that's kind of the whole scaling debate, right?
Is what trade-offs are you willing to make at the base layer, if any, versus what trade-offs
do you take on the layer twos and the layer threes? And it seems, you know, a lot of the
the shitcoins out there have optimized for maximum scalability and transaction throughput at layer one
at the cost of security and decentralization, which, okay, that's fine if you want to do that.
But unless you have the solid foundation, then I would argue that the rest of it doesn't really
matter. Unless you have the sound money at the core, the rest of it is just, I mean, it's just shit.
Yeah. I'm afraid so as well. Like I used to say as well, something I used to say is like,
it's better to have custodial Bitcoin than to have non-costodial shitcoins because you're
custodianing something that is worthless down the road. So, yeah, I think so too.
I like that. I like that a lot. I think that's a good way of describing it. So I appreciate the
background and kind of the also the discussion on lightning there and just kind of how that relates
to you guys. And I want to kind of go into a little bit here. Just the problem with traditional
crowdfunding platforms like GoFundMe or Kickstarter to name a couple that are pretty well known.
And then once we kind of talk about those problems, okay, how does Geyser slash Bitcoin
fix this? Because I think a lot of people, especially in the so-called western or developed
world may say, why do you need a Bitcoin crowdfunding platform? Like just use GoFundMe or
Kickstarter and have the money transferred to your bank. So can you talk a little bit about what is
the problem that Geyser was trying to solve as it relates to GoFundMe Kickstarter? Any other
crowdfunding platform you can think of? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, when I first started looking
into it, I didn't really quite understand how big the problem was. But as soon as I started
getting my hands dirty, it was obvious that something like this needed to exist. So
first of all, Kickstarter and GoFundMe are only available in like 30 countries. Actually,
I think GoFundMe is available in 21 countries or something like that. That's very, very low. And
that's because they depend on payment providers like Stripe and PayPal that have all sorts of
conditions and don't actually operate in all these different countries. They're rolling out slowly.
So actually, I think Stripe now works in 50 countries. But still, for some reason, GoFundMe
doesn't operate in all these other countries. Some of it is maybe a risk assessment.
And for Kickstarter, maybe a bit of it is the problems associated with shipping as well.
But really, it's kind of ridiculous to me. And we're seeing, to respond to that right away,
well, guys are seeing 40% of all funding going to countries that don't have fundraising available
in the traditional platforms. So that's not to say that there is no demand for it. There's a ton
of demand. But it's not a seamless thing. There are platforms, for example, that are
like region specific, there are some platforms based in some countries in Africa, like Kenya and
Tanzania, there's one platform I discovered recently that's only available in Brazil.
But then to connect all of them, there's really none one that works like that, like borderlessly.
And part of the reason as well is because, again, because Stripe only works in some of these countries,
you'd have to go in and have one, like go to every single bank in every single country,
and create a partnership with them of some sort. And even just like the partnership,
like that is an insane amount of work and effort. Like imagine having to hire like five different
people to go out and like the different count, different continents and just try to create
these banking partnerships. That is insane. With Bitcoin is almost too easy. We don't have to ask
for permission. We just fucking build it. It's just incredible. And then that's to say that
that said, we still do because we're still based in the United States, we still have to follow
sanctioned countries, so sanction regulations. So we do not operate in say like Cuba, Russia, Iran,
and so forth. And we still have to follow the law. And we still do as much compliance
as possible to make sure that Bitcoins are not coming from like sanctioned addresses or
sanctioned countries or sanctioned individuals. So it's an important kind of thing to add.
When you operate as a company, you have to make these important decisions.
But yeah, but apart from, if you follow the rules, there's nothing that says you cannot operate
in Nigeria or in Africa. It's just inconceivable that in a world where you can send emails to
people across the world instantly for free, you cannot do that with money. And Geyser makes it
so obvious. So that's the borderless side. And then there's obviously the censorship. The censorship
is also very big deal as we saw in Canada with the trucker convoy. I think if I remember correctly,
apart from like the protests, I think $10 million were frozen from the Canadian government
by reaching out to go, they reached out to go fund me, froze $10 million. And I think the funds
were given back to eventually to the funders. But the fact that that could happen, that they
could just take the money just seemed bizarre to me. So how we approach that is that Geyser
doesn't custody any funds. Geyser is not a money transmitter. We do not control the funds at any
point in time. The funds go to the creators peer to peer from the contributor to the creator.
We are really just an interface. We don't touch the money in any way, control it.
So that makes censorship impossible from the monetary perspective of things, right? We cannot
freeze funds. As per controlling the projects, Geyser projects are on AUSTER. As in, if you look at
the projects, every project has an AUSTER MPUB. So again, even from that perspective, you could
take your Geyser project and second take it over somewhere else. If you have a project on Geyser
and you want to take those sats and put them somewhere safe for the long haul, or if you have
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Again, go to Bitcoin consulting dot us and book a consultation today. That's Bitcoin consulting
dot us. I think it's such a the trucker protests were such a great eye opening moment for a lot of
people that not only is the money in your bank not yours, but the money that is being held
custody by any sort of centralized service provider, for example, GoFundMe is not yours.
And at the request of a government that can be frozen taken away from you,
at least it was given back to the people who donated it. But it's like Bitcoin was the only thing
that ended up being able to reach those truckers. And I think that that's such a powerful thing.
And you see that sort of story, you know, kind of repeat itself over and over, and especially
in more authoritarian regimes. And I'm curious if you see what other projects on Geyser that you see
that are kind of in this same vein where you because you mentioned 40% of the projects on Geyser
are from countries where they can't even use something like GoFundMe. So obviously, there's
a huge need for it there. But what are some of the interesting or really kind of, I guess, inspiring
projects that you've seen on Geyser? And maybe we can just talk a little bit about some of those.
Yeah. Yeah, good question. Actually, just a clarification before I answer the question directly.
If I spoke to Ben, who helped to manage the trucker fundraise using Bitcoin,
and I believe they were using Tallycoin at the time, which was essentially enabled Bitcoin on
chain donations. I think in some cases, they were essentially taking the Bitcoins they were receiving
and putting them into, I think, then sending them out on Coinbase addresses. And if I remember
correctly, they were able to go to Coinbase, so the government also went even that far into
censoring Bitcoin donations using Coinbase accounts and so froze Coinbase accounts.
And I think if I remember correctly, I can remember if it was one third of funds that did go through
and then on two or one third of funds that actually were censored, one of the two. I don't
remember exactly that. So let's say 50-50, one made us 50% were censored using Bitcoin.
From that perspective, lighting is still advantageous because there is more privacy.
But also, I guess it's just not still an undiscovered, undiscovered kind of world for
regulators. That said, still not enough, right? Still, the government could still go to
all those Doshi and ask for certain accounts to be taken down at some point. But that's where
I think there's the ability to, as for maybe, eCash, end up being useful. And most of the
important though, non-costodial lighting solutions end up being really good. And non-costodial
lighting applications like Phoenix, like Zeus, they can scale Bitcoin to like 100 million users.
Right? Like that, we're still good for another five to 10 years in terms of Bitcoin moving up,
in terms of adoption. I just wanted to point out the clarification just to stress that
we haven't figured it all out, guys. We need builders, we need smart people to fucking figure
the shit out. We have to keep advancing Bitcoin in terms of this layered approach. We have to
improving a trade-off, we have to improve privacy. So if you're smart and you're listening to this,
we need you to build on Bitcoin, stop everything you're doing, and help Bitcoin
adoption, help Bitcoin and humanity. But what did I want to say? So to your question though,
what are some exciting projects that I like to see on Geyser? Well, I think, as you probably
saw from the last article, I think the Gaza project has just been absolutely incredible.
This one man was just a simple guy, a taxi driver who just has been actually using Geyser even from
before the recent crisis. So he was actually already before improving his proof of work.
He was a bit coiner and he was giving money to people, kids in hospitals, and he was showing
the proof of work and buying toys and buying kind of fun things. And then with October 7th,
happening, he then started essentially actually providing essential goods, water, food, shelter
to innocent civilians in need. So I mean, just like it reminds me of just, I think you guys
that even a really interesting, I think one of your skits about the relationship between Bitcoin
and CBDCs, looking at Lord of the Rings as a metaphor. I feel like this is another Lord of
the Rings kind of environment, kind of analogy, because he's a bit like a hobbit. He's just like
simple, simple man, the simple, honest, very, very faithful and optimistic that guy. And he's just
using this incredible tool of Bitcoin to do good to people around him. And yeah, he's a bit like
a Frodo of the situation. And Bitcoiners are, I don't know, like the sort of people around the
world just helping to save lives. So yeah, I think just the extent to which this project has blown
up has been a key, you know, makes it one of the most important projects that Geysers ever hosted
because of the humanitarian impact it's had, because of like the symbolic impact as well,
like GoFundMeKicks are all closed down access to crowdfunding to people in Gaza.
But because they're not a sanctioned country, there's no reason why we cannot
do that. The only thing we're doing is that we're just being a little bit more careful in the people
that use our platform. We do ask for KYC for people in that region because of the high risk that it
poses for us. But, you know, having done all the due diligence with Yusef and seeing that he is
who he says he is, and he doesn't appear on any sanctions list, and there's no reason at all to
suspect that he is a criminal in any shape or form. Then this makes it even more powerful of a
statement because it shows what Bitcoin can do and what Bitcoin companies and Bitcoin ethos can do.
It's really incredible. And I had donated to this project like the first time I saw it,
Fumble, right, had posted about it on Twitter early on and tagged me. And I was like, well, that's,
you know, that's great. He was showing some initial proof of work already. Like, look, here,
you know, here's the photos, here's the videos of what this is going to. This is literally going
to food and water and tents and things like that for women and children who need this. And I just
looked again at the project today on Geyser. It's at almost 270 million sats. It's like a
dollar value of over $150,000 contributed in total, which is just an incredible thing. I saw
that he's buying a truck to transport water on now, like at scale. That is really insane because
this is a place where people are absolutely suffering and living in conditions that we cannot
imagine. And this is not to make any sort of, I'm not even going to go there making a political
statement about what's happening there. But I think that I would hope that there's no sides
when it comes to innocent women and children not being able to get fresh water, food, shelter,
and basic necessities. Like, I would hope that that doesn't get politicized. Sadly, it does.
But from my perspective, this project is absolutely incredible. It's giving help to people who
really need it. And it's being done in a way where, again, it's very transparent. I mean,
if you want, you can obviously donate anonymously, but you can also see, maybe everybody who
donates to this will someday be put on another watch list. I'm sure many of us are on them already
for the dastardly deeds that we've done with Bitcoin, like sending it around peer to peer,
heaven forbid. But this is a really incredible story. And so, maybe I mean, I'd like to dig
into this a little bit deeper, because again, almost 270 million sats, that's, is that one of the
biggest funding projects that are biggest funded projects that you've had on Geyser? Have there
been any over that at that point? Or is this like one of the top? I think you can probably see it
on the landing page on geyser.fund. I think it's top three, I think, but in terms of dollar,
the nominated value. So, you know, there were projects that were, you know, we received $100,000
like 10 months ago, and Bitcoin price was was half of what it is now, right? So, but if you think
about the dollar value, I think so. I think it's the most funded project on Geyser. And it speaks
to honestly, like, the power of the Bitcoin community, and the amount of sharing that has
happened. And I think kind of to your point about let's not get political here, absolutely. This
is a humanitarian catastrophe. These are people that are suffering. Innocent civilians, there's
mostly kids and families that are being involved here. We have to like acknowledge what it is and
support and make sure that this type of inhumanity doesn't happen, that people don't have to get
stuck inside a war conflict. And I think Fumble could probably come here if you want to get more
into the weeds of like the reason I'm not an expert on the subject. But I did have the opportunity
to speak to Yusef and Fumble and really dig into his perspective. And it's just what's most amazing
is just how little political even he is. Like he's just a humble guy who suffered a lot and still
has hope for the future. To me, that was just the most insane thing. Just after speaking with him
for an hour about how he's helped 20,000 innocent families, how he's helped, you know, I think
thousands of orphaned children just like get access to basic supplies. And he has like an entire,
you know, group of children that are orphaned that live basically with him and his family.
The situation is really, really dire and I urge everyone to look into it and learn more about it.
But what's most spectacular is when I say when I ask them like, you still have hope that, you know,
life will go back to normal. And for them, for him, normal has never been great either. But
he says, of course, of course, I have hope. And it's just incredible. Like every day I've been
waking up recently and just thinking, okay, I'm really privileged, you know, to not be in a
situation like that, because it could be happening to all of us. You're just born in the wrong place
at the wrong time. And and massacres happen around you. That's not good. That's not good. And to me,
it helped me appreciate Bitcoin as something more, you know, Bitcoin as a humanitarian technology,
really, as a technology for for Katamai in some way, like, you know, it was bad, you know, he,
you know, you are, you know, where there is fast evil festering and inhumanity and and
and and darkness, Bitcoin is the light. I don't want to get like, it's not religious or anything,
but it really is like, it really is light, it really is healing, is healing people in a way
the fiat does not allow. You cannot send fiat payments to people in Gaza, because in Gaza,
people, a lot of people's bank accounts have actually been completely frozen because they,
the Gaza bank accounts rely on the on the Israeli Shekel, which is controlled by Israeli bank,
Israeli banks. And and most this is from what I hear, I don't know if it's true entirely,
it doesn't sound digging, it does seem to be correct, but in there may be some nuance.
But what it seems to be is that most bank accounts, like online bank accounts have been
closed. So the little people had is just unavailable. So people are really just relying
on physical bank notes on on on basically Bitcoin and crypto wallets, of which most people use
Bitcoin and stable coins, probably even more stable coins than they use Bitcoin to be to be
transparent here. And enlightening wallets as well. And I would probably dare to say like,
this is the most this is the biggest, like, cryptocurrency crowdfunding campaign in Gaza,
that has that has that has happened. And all of this thanks to Yusuf and his hard work and his
honesty and his transparency and fumble that has has helped them and make it happen. One other
thing I wanted to mention was the fuck I forgot. Sorry. That's that's okay. Hey, it'll come back
to you. But I wanted to touch on a couple points there. Because first of all, I think this is
incredible because Yusuf is showing his proof of work throughout the entire thing. And it's all
being posted very publicly by by fumble. It's all out there in the open for anyone to see this
isn't this isn't some we, you know, weird, you know, NGO that is taking taking donations. And
you're like, wait, how much of this is actually going to the people I'm supposedly donating to?
Like, I don't know, 5%, 10% maybe is any of it actually making it to those people? Or is it just
lining the people's pockets of those who are, you know, close to the the money fountain? Because I
think that's a huge problem in traditional NGOs. You know, you've then you've got organizations
like HRF, which operates a lot in Bitcoin, which is I think a hugely transparent and great way
for NGOs to operate. I mean, in my mind, it's like, you know, the thing if you're not mining
Bitcoin, you're wasting energy. Well, it's like, if you're not using Bitcoin for humanitarian aid,
you're probably committing fraud. I, you know, perhaps a bit of a over the top statement, but
it's like, why wouldn't you use this tool that allows for such transparency and is able to reach
people that fiat cannot. And then as it relates to the, you know, bank accounts being shut down.
Again, this is just like, I can't imagine, I'm sure that the reasons are, or the stated reasons
are, well, we don't know what whose bank accounts are controlled by Hamas. You know, we don't know
whose bank accounts are going to be used to, to murder more innocent Israelis. And it's like,
you know, fine, we can, there's always going to be justifications for cutting people off from
the financial system. You had that with the, with the trucker protests. You have that across the
world all the time with any sort of, you know, anti anti government or anti state anti regime
protesters. What's the first thing that happens? They get cut off from the monetary network. They
get, they get chopped right off and there's no going back. And so that's why these sorts of stories
give me so much hope because it's a case where even if people get cut off, get blacklisted,
get shut down from using traditional fiat monetary networks, Bitcoin exists and it's not going away.
And even if, you know, they end up having forbid somehow, you know, shutting down Geyser, if the
if the powers that be come for Geyser, I hope that they don't. And I think it's smart that you guys
are, that you unfortunately have to operate within the existing paradigm because it's the
reality of the situation, right? You're not trying to get thrown in jail. You're not trying to get
shut down. But even if you guys did somehow get shut down, well, people can still use Bitcoin,
you know, and even if somehow the lightning network all magically goes offline, well, people can
still use Bitcoin on chain. Like you can still come back to that base layer. And I think that's
so important that people have an exit. They have, I mean, more than an exit, they have a life raft
because in a world where we are cracking down, not we, but the state is cracking down more and more
on any sort of descent, you know, and where to just try and live your life and exist and feed
your family can somehow be made difficult by the state. We need Bitcoin so much. And it's just
really inspiring to see people like Youssef truly doing the work, showing the proof of work and
making actual change. And, and shout out to everybody who's donated. I'll make sure to link
the Geyser page in the show notes here. So if you're listening to this and you're
want to learn more about the story, I'll link your article as well that you did for Bitcoin
Mags. It's really excellent. And I encourage people to go check it out, look at the proof of
work and then see what you decide to do. But luckily Geyser makes it very easy to send some
sats, larger small amounts over there to people who really need it. So it's awesome what you guys
are doing. And it's awesome that Youssef is really putting in an incredible amount of work to help
people that are in dire need of it. Yeah, really well said, man. And yeah,
double clicking on some points you made there. One thing is, yeah, as you mentioned, the entire
humanitarian apparatus is incredibly inefficient. And this is an example of grassroots humanitarianism,
right? It's peer to peer donations in the most truly, in the most spectacular way.
Youssef is just a guy living there. And it's literally donating all the money he has. And to give you
another maybe piece from X-verse from the from the article that I really captured me was,
when I got on a call with Youssef, he had just received around $50,000 that month. And I was like,
dude, you receive $50,000 this month, like, you must have so much that you can do now. And it's like,
that was that was the last month, this month I've received very, very little and I'm, you know,
running out. Like, that's that that's at the level we're talking about here, that that's a level of
need and destruction that is happening right now. He's, yeah, that's crazy. You just receive $50,000
and you're because you're worried about tomorrow. And you're thinking about the last week, the time
flows differently for him and that situation. But yeah, so to say that, there is no there's no
like, other third party. And so he's been doing such a good job for the community in that region that
the United Nations Agency responsible for the Palestinian people, UNR has actually appointed him
essentially to support the UNR effort in in in the region where he's at. So like, that's the
extent to which he was not only, you know, doing, you know, receiving donations effectively from
the Bitcoin community, who's actually doing even superior work to people to the to the
humanitarian effort on the ground, right, and leveraging resources he bought something like
2000 chickens from Egypt that were important, because it's like, you cannot basically trade
as an individual, you cannot as an individual buy something from another country. But if you have a
business license, you can buy a bulk. And that's what that's what enabled him to do these bigger
operations in terms of working as a business. So yeah, now we're talking about a truck he's has
and you know, all those photos of him providing water and supplies to innocent civilians. I mean,
I think if we're if we get to the point that the government comes after this type of campaign,
we are really at the end game. I mean, if something like this would become something watched for,
if I got thrown in jail for something like this, I think that's like the moment the moment where
Bitcoiners need to absolutely switch direction and just assume the government is,
we should already assume that the government is nefarious. But I think we should assume
a much darker agenda. Because there's no reason at all suspect anything wrong with
you, Seth, and the work he's doing. He's, you know, saving lives. He's providing the transparency.
There is no reason to suspect any yellow tent. So yeah, God bless him and God bless Bitcoiners
for enabling the lives being saved. And if if that were really to happen, then I'm still freaking
glad for having self having enabled this to happen. Because as long as it saved lives and
and brought hope to people, there's nothing more worthwhile than that to my mind. If it brought
hope to people, that's exactly what they fear. They don't want to give us any hope. They want to
shut down the hope we have and let us live in darkness and we're not going to give it to them.
We're going to have hope. We're going to hold on to hope. We're going to have to keep fighting.
And this is another thing about I think Bitcoiners should should learn about as well as it's true.
We have this this this solid foundations, this base layer that is there. But ultimately, the world
we live in is made by humans and human action and humans taking decisions and stepping up to power.
And so, you know, I had a chance to, you know, several people told me, oh, you should take this
project down and lawyers and stuff like that. But because of like optics and things like what are
you talking about? Like, this is it. This is why Bitcoin exists. This is why, you know, this is why
we fight. And while we are in Bitcoin, it's not just number go up. Right? This is because Bitcoin,
because if this happens to your country, and fear payments cancel in your country,
well, you're fucked unless you have Bitcoin, right? And so that's why you need to have this Bitcoin
as a tool as a bridge to bring humanity together. Because the fiat system is keeping and creating
these divisions, you know, divisions, borders, you know, arbitrary rules that exclude some people
over others for some arbitrary reason. And Bitcoin actually connects us all. Bitcoin connects us all.
And we're just, you know, there's no, there's no, there's no excuse anymore to not help someone
who's suffering on the other part of the world, because Bitcoin connects you. And the only, the
only, the only, the only disconnection is actually in your mind and in your heart. And
and in your intent. So that's what's beautiful. Bitcoin actually gives us the choice to do good.
And amen, amen. That's really well said. And I think that this is, again, something I want to
drill into again, is that, you know, you talk about, okay, this may seem like it's happening on the
other, you know, it is happening on the other side of the world, depending on where you live, right?
But as Gladstein would say, check your financial privilege. Because you, you know,
for those of us who have been, you know, grew, were born and grew up in a, you know,
in the so-called developed world in the Western world, we are incredibly privileged.
Most of us have not had to deal with large scale financial censorship. We haven't had to deal with
hyperinflation. Yeah, we've dealt with some pretty bad inflation, but in the U.S., we export
the dollars that we get rid of the worst of our inflation, right? And I think it's important for
people to remember that this can happen anywhere. As long as, if a fiat system exists, it is only
a matter of time before you are somehow cut off from it, for not, for, you know, supporting the
wrong candidate, for having the wrong background, for spending your money on the wrong thing,
for saying the wrong thing online. It is only a matter of time and it is, would take an incredible
amount of hubris to believe that just because you've been okay to this point, you're going to be okay.
And so you don't need to worry about this. And, you know, what's the big deal? You know, why, why
do you need Bitcoin? It's like, to me, these are the examples of why Bitcoin is so powerful.
Yes, it's, it's the store of value as, as the, the base layer of it all we've established that it,
that is key to actually being able to have a good money that you can use. But right next to that is,
you need a money that can reach outside of the fiat system. Because if it's within the fiat
system, it's subject to capture. And as we've seen again, in Gaza, all over the world, all over,
all over Africa, all over South America, even in fucking Canada, like Canada, America's boring
neighbor that lives in their attic, like even Canada engages in financial repression and financial
and monetary censorship, like, wake the fuck up people, this can happen to you. And so I think
it's, it's really important to tell these stories and to show people that look, this is the reality
day to day on the ground for a huge part of humanity. They don't have the luxury of having
a low time preference because literally they're just trying to get through the day alive. And
hopefully with some food in their belly and maybe some, some sort of a roof over their head,
probably not a roof, probably a tarp or a tent, but at least something. And so, yeah, thank you for,
for shedding light on this. And I think I might need to have, have fumble on here to, to dig into
it in greater detail because I think these are, these are stories that people need to hear because
if you have, if you have a mostly functioning brain, these kind of stories should wake you up
a little bit, I think, I hope. Definitely. And for me, that's been the case, like I've always known,
and to not get too, too, too into it, but I've always had this feeling that there was a, you know,
all sorts of like violence happening in that area. But now we're beyond that. Now we're talking about
genocide happening in the region from, from what I've seen. And I think to go deeper, fumble probably
would be a really good person to speak to because he has a deep, deep insight into the area. He's,
he's been there. He has that historical context. He, he's done a lot of the reading of the literature
and could definitely add a ton of value, a lot to list to that.
Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to reach out because I think again, it's,
that's the whole point of having any sort of a platform is to be able to use it for some sort of
good, no matter what size that platform may be. But I really, I really appreciate you digging into
that a little bit. And again, I'll link the donation page on, in the show notes, I'll link the article
as well. It was a really, really great one. And I could honestly, could dig into this all day. And,
and, and perhaps that, that is exactly what I'll do with fumble. But I do want to get into a couple
other topics with you if we can, if we can switch gears a little bit. And this is still kind of on
the, well, it's very much on the freedom censorship resistant side of things. But to talk about
Noster a little bit, because I forget exactly when you guys rolled out the feature for Noster
integration. But, you know, you have it up there now, like today, for instance, right before this,
I decided that, you know what, I'm just going to create a funding page for, for this podcast.
And because, you know what, why, why not? If people find it valuable, that's another avenue
for them to give value. And I just did my, my sign in with, with Noster, as I had done for a
previous, when I was running the Stop the Presses campaign, which I need to, I need to re up again.
But it's so easy. Now, you know, I just used my Albi extension I used, used it to sign in with
Noster and boom, I'm connected. So can you guys talk a little bit about why you decided to
start adding that Noster integration, what other kind of features are possible because of that.
And then just from a larger standpoint, zooming out a little bit, how do you see Noster working
alongside Bitcoin, both working within Geyser, kind of adding to your toolkit, adding to the
toolkits of people who are out there wanting to raise money? Right. Well, yeah, good question. So,
I mean, Noster is, is a fantastic, really, you know, re architecting the web really,
though that's how I see it. I see it as essentially re architecting the web. And
I think there's a lot to talk about there. I mean, it's, it's, so I guess to start from the
stretch, we started integrating Noster login, I think actually a year ago. And then in November
of last year, we released this functionality where actually every Geyser project is on Noster
in a custodial way. So we still store the NSEC because, well, we already were costed in the
project, right? But now we provide the app that's kind of connected to a private key. So every,
every kind of action happening in Geyser still either signed or will be signed
over Noster so that what it enables is essentially interoperability with other crowdfunding clients
that may arise in the future. But I do think further, you know, the vision and the future
of Noster is actually people owning their own private keys and owning their own data. So either us
going deeper and that integration allowing users to kind of connect their own public,
yeah, sorry, their own, their own profiles and create projects that are non custodial and so
forth. I guess where we are now though is just we're focusing on just other things because
Noster still is is really quite small. So doesn't so yeah, although it's it excites us deeply,
it excites us really deeply. We also have to be realistic right now in terms of what what type
of the rules can enable for Geyser, which is again, a company that has to has to float. So
for now, we're gonna probably just keep concentrating on just Bitcoin and Lightning and
the power of the power of that. And, and then I think as we grow, definitely Noster is something
that we see becoming incredibly, incredibly useful in the in sort of the middle term in a few years.
What what excites me particularly is just is like what it means in terms of the,
like the financial system. So like we with all this data available publicly over relays,
you have a situation where right now every every every social data is is captured by by platforms
like Twitter, Facebook, and so forth. But now that data would be open, it might be really
interesting to see the development of like financial tools, financial services, like on top of that
data. So things like peer to peer lending, or equity, you know, and crowdfunding is really just
the main layer for a zaps are actually zaps are just essentially that the groundwork zaps are
the groundwork zaps are tips, right. And on top of tips, I would argue you have actually
donations for that have an intent. It's not just like, Oh, I made this cute, you know, nice tweet.
Is that me? But it's like, I want to make this happen. Let's do it. Right. That's that's crowd
funding. That's Geyser. On top of that, you have sales like you sell and buy products,
which Geyser also offers, which could also be over over Nostar, which would be exciting. On top
of that, then you have more more complex financial system like lending, okay, you I'm giving you
money, I'll give you the money back, you know, I imagine all over Nostar. And then on top of that,
you have equity, right, just like, Oh, fund this, and you're going to get, you know, 100x returns
for for something. So all of this, all of these layers have their own sets of complexities and
regulatory complexity as well. But that's what excites me. That's what excites me about Nostar,
because we can create a permissionless economy, right, like truly. And because we have identity,
we can ascribe certain actions to a degree of risk and trust, right, and reputation.
So because Nostar gives us that, we don't need, I mean, the way that I see it is,
you don't need the state anymore, because not everyone's not just an anonymous guy,
because you have a history and a proof of work, and years of work to build up personas,
that proof of work is collateral, collateral you can use. Yeah, you can take it $100,000 and just
fuck everyone and just take the money and run away with it. But wouldn't that be more practical?
If, you know, if you spent, you know, if you spent 10, 10 years working out a persona on Twitter,
or on Nostar, sorry, and your walker, like, and you take a $10,000 loan, like you might as well
do something good with it, right? So I think to my mind, that's to me sounds like something super,
super exciting. And because, again, it doesn't rely on the third party that necessarily gets in the
way and becomes that trusted third party that can issue loans, or you still will have parties that
identify the risk, you know, and do all that sort of background work. But essentially,
it's a peer to peer economy where people make their own decisions. People are adults, they're
not children, they can take loans if they feel like it, and if they feel like it, you would give
loans. Like with, with, with USF, wouldn't you want to give them $100,000 loan, you know, you would
rather give them a donation because it's right. But because the trust is accumulated, if this,
the conflict disappears, and he wants to build a hospital, like that's one guy who will actually
fucking build a hospital, you know. So because of that, I think we, the reliance of the state,
when it comes to matters of traditional banks, when it comes to things like lending,
and then equity and investments just becomes a lot more nil. So I'm just excited to just see,
like, and not even just beyond guys, or just I want people to build this stuff, you know,
I want people to just start experimenting. And there are experiments already happening,
like Nostra Rocket, that are trying to, trying to fulfill that vision. And it'll take a lot of
trial and error. But I think that's the, that's the direction we need to go. We just build,
continue building on this parallel system. It doesn't require any, you know, government,
you know, type approval or certification or whatever. Because again, these are systems in
place that are incredibly exclusionary to quote, re-use, who talks about financial apartheid.
We live in a world of financial apartheid. People in other countries around the world
cannot use, cannot use a, or cannot use very easily, even just banking, playing banking,
but also just like imagine trying to, you know, do an equity crowdfund to open a,
you know, an ice cream shop in Lagos. Like, who's, you know, there's no tool for that, right? But
there's such a role to play for Bitcoin as technology to really lift all boats here. And
we just have to build and then tagging Bitcoin with Nostra, we can really go beyond just one-on-one
donations, but like really take the social graph and use that for, for, for creating an
emerging economy really. I think the sky's the limit. I love that. And I think one of the things that,
for something like Nostra, it's still very much obviously in its infancy, right? It's improved
an insane, I started using it early December 2022 after I saw Will Kasar and post about it on, on
Twitter and have, have been hooked ever since. And right now a lot of the, the current use cases
are around social media because that's like, you know, build what you know, build the things that,
the people want, build the things that are pro-social and that are going to bring in new people to
start using this, this protocol. But I completely agree that it's gonna, it's already starting to
blossom so much out from that into so many other use cases. And we're gonna see, we're gonna see
so many more in the coming years here. And I also think that one of the things right now, you know,
when it comes to Nostra adoption, you've seen large adoption waves when big names come over and
start using it and tell their followers on other networks, hey, go check this out, you can find me
over here. And I may be saying some things over there that I'm just not going to say anything
anywhere else. This happened with, with Jack, it happened with, with Snowden, it happened with someone
like, like Lynn Alden, people who have really large followings and who a lot of people care
about what they have to say. And there's certain things they're only going to do and say on Nostra.
And that's really powerful. And I think we're going to see a lot of, a lot of different, like
content creators as well, start to move over to Nostra as they realize this is a place where I can
actually, I can actually own my persona. I can't just have my light switch flipped off by YouTube
or by X or by, or by Facebook, Instagram, whatever. And I think that that's really powerful. And so
one of the other questions I wanted to ask you here is in terms of, in terms of Geyser, as it
relates to content creators, I think that this is another just very huge and obvious way for,
for Geyser to grow as well. And I know you guys have already been kind of adding some functionality
that kind of replaces a lot of the stuff that Patreon does, for example, things that allow
content creators to get paid. Can you talk a little bit about what's the pitch, the Geyser pitch
to content creators who say they want different ways to monetize their content, different ways
to monetize their brand, different ways to grow their audience and give perks to their audience.
What's the, why should they care about and check out Geyser? Yeah. Yeah, good question. So if you're
a creator, you need a simple way to get donations and then sell, sell perks. And Geyser just helps
you do that really, really easily. You also want a place where you can showcase, you know, as a
creator, you have your own persona, you have your own, your own, your own master profile,
your own Twitter profile. Geyser just gives you that project, that project that allows you to,
you know, essentially showcase the vision of what's the idea here. And that project then can be,
you know, again, selling, selling perks, can be receiving donations. You can even have a goal,
right, where you want to, you know, showcase that you're trying to reach this goal to achieve a
certain target and buy a new microphone or whatever. Well, Geyser makes it really easy to be
transparent about that. And in terms of showcasing what your goal is and where you want to go.
And then yeah, in time, we will be adding more creator tooling around, you know,
things like subscriptions and maybe having a place where not all the content gets a subscriber or
member. That's definitely something we're going to be, you know, doing more of. But to be frank,
I think when I think about like the value add, I think more and more it'll become clear that I
think a lot of the products end up becoming a key functionality, functionality for Geyser.
So because again, with an Oscar, you can get that pretty easily. But and then, you know,
more and more functionality exists around selling goods as well and not for two. But
but I think that's where I think that the key, a key kind of big edge for Geyser is at the moment,
is really just selling products, you know, limited editions, they could be sponsorships,
they could be physical products, they could be merch, they could be experiences. And so as a creator,
either using Geyser as a bit like your marketplace can be a really good way just to monetize
additionally, on top of like the value for value donations. And from what we've seen in terms of
like projects that are using Geyser and like, you know, like podcast scene 2.0, is that like 75%
of all value generated for podcasters actually coming from just like donations on Geyser and
selling rewards on Geyser. So definitely recommend podcasters just looking at Geyser as a because
again, you can receive donations on lightning, but also on chain, right. And so on chain donations
are much higher value than 21 sets, zaps on podcasting 2.0. But also really importantly,
it's really just cracking the user experience because in a lot of these podcasting 2.0 apps,
which you know, I love like fountain and with like a lot of the times you have you're relying on an
in an in app wallet. And and that's great. But most people just really don't like having to have
a wallet for every single app. And so guys, when it's impossible people to get funded from other
apps, right, so you couldn't be sending a transaction from your treasure wallet, right.
That's what you want. You want people to tap into the treasure wallet and send you the
nation through that. So again, I think just setting up a project on Geyser is a no brainer.
We are simply, you know, you know, very humbly the best at like making it possible making easy
for people to fund your fund you banking super easy for people to fund you. And and then
increasingly not increasing as well just helping you sell rewards. And that's going to be a key
area that we're going to be focusing on in the future. That's awesome. And I would also suggest
that that people send money from their their bitbox o2 Bitcoin only hardware wallet as as bitbox is
a longtime sponsor of this show. Had to of course put that plug in there. And you can go to the
show notes if you want to want to get some percents off that fully open source hardware wallet. With
that said, I want to be conscious of your time here and just I've got a completely unrelated
question for you to wrap things up. But anything anything else you that we didn't cover today that
you that you wanted to talk about at all, anything that we missed, I know we covered a lot and I
really appreciate your time. Like to say to just to wrap it up is is is you know we need you guys
like there's this this rule that Stelios my co founder told me recently, what is the 99 one rule
thing, which is 90% of people are lurkers on social media and so forth and 9% are kind of like a
little bit active. And they're you could say the zappers, like the contrary the contributors on
Geyser, and 1% are the creators. And that this is a natural law of of of the world of society,
you know, the 90 90% are you know, have their jobs and have their own stuff. But what I urge you
guys to do is just is is is yeah is is to remember that that for the 9% of you, your contributions
really matter and really really have a difference. And for the 1% of you, the your contributions,
your creations, your podcasts, your your your your community meetups, all of that also matters.
You're really are changing the world. And the 90% of you, well, get going, you know, start
creating stuff, start contributing to project, there are so many ways for you to be involved in
Bitcoin. Beyond lurking, just get out there, launch your projects, you know, start your podcast.
You know, this is the type of stuff that really will will change you that will make you feel
alive because here we're building stuff for the future for the next generations. And we're going
to need builders. So and eventually, you're going to be building a Bitcoin so might as well start
early. So that's what I like to think. I think everyone's a creator. And it's just a matter
of timing, you know, when do you want to get started? Well, I'd say get started right away
as the world is burning. No better time to start rebuilding the world.
Amen to that. And that's a that's a perfect note to end on. And the other question I was going to
ask you is just unrelated. But I'm always curious, what are people reading? Are you reading anything
right now? And then, and if not right now, is there a book that you always recommend that people
read can take either one of those both? However you'd like? Yeah, good question. I'm trying to
finish out last shrugged. Like 80% of the way, it's, it's been taking me a long time. It's a big
one. But it's definitely worth it. I really recommend people to read that one. I'm sure I
remember what else I would probably recommend. Yeah, I think that's all I've got for now, man. I
haven't been reading much lately. That's okay. You mentioned layered money earlier. Yeah. Now,
that that'll do it. And then the last thing I would ask you is, where do you want to send
people? They can go to geyser.fund. I'll link, I'll link usefs geyser project and I'll link your
article as well in the show notes. Anywhere else people should go to learn more to get involved?
Yeah, I think that's a really good start. You can also go to our about page about that geyser.fund
and drop your email on there. If you case you want to get monthly updates on on what's been cooking
in geyser. And as I said before, go and geyser.fund slash launch to launch your project.
And I've got to say, it truly, it truly is easy. I mean, I did it today in a number of minutes
before the show. And so, make I just want to thank you for your time. You know, Bitcoin is scarce,
but Bitcoin podcasts are abundant. So thank you for sharing your scarce time on another
fucking Bitcoin podcast. I really appreciate it. And this was this was a really enjoyable conversation.
No, a pleasure. And pleasure's mine. Can we to listen to the new ones coming up as well?
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin talk episode of the Bitcoin podcast. If you are a Bitcoin only
company interested in sponsoring another fucking Bitcoin podcast, head to Bitcoin podcast net
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Bitcoin is scarce. There will only ever be 21 million, but Bitcoin podcasts are abundant.
So thank you for spending your scarce time to listen to another fucking Bitcoin podcast.
Until next time, stay free.