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I believed it at the time, right?

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And then more evidence comes out and you're like,

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fuck, we've been fucked over, we've been lied to,

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it was all bullshit.

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And that's a hard thing to go through

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because it's a system that you've spent decades

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believing is an honorable correct system.

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And now you've looked behind the veil

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and it's all fucking bullshit.

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And so, but the best thing,

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best you can do is come out and say,

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look, I was wrong.

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This is what led me to this point.

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This is why I got it wrong and I'm sorry

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and I will do better.

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Greetings and salutations, my fellow plebs.

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My name is Walker and this is The Bitcoin Podcast.

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The Bitcoin block height is 815735

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and the value of one Bitcoin is still one Bitcoin.

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Today's episode is Bitcoin Talk,

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where I talk with my guest about Bitcoin

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and many other things as well.

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Today, that guest is the one and only Peter McCormack.

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He's the host of What Bitcoin Did,

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an incredibly popular Bitcoin podcast.

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And he's also the chairman

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of the Ray Al Bedford Football Club,

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who famously adopted Bitcoin.

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I really enjoyed this conversation with Peter

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and I think you will as well.

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You can find all of Peter's links

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and accounts that he mentions in the show notes

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or by going to bitcoinpodcast.net slash words.

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You can watch The Bitcoin Podcast on Rumble, YouTube or X

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by searching at Walker America.

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And of course, you can listen on Fountain

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or wherever you get your podcasts

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by searching for The Bitcoin Podcast.

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If you listen to The Bitcoin Podcast on Fountain,

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consider giving this show a boost

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or creating a clip of something you found interesting.

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For those that have boosted this show already

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or zap me on Nostr, thank you.

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And in case you missed it,

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The Bitcoin Podcast has its first official sponsor,

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Bitbox and the Bitbox O2 Bitcoin Only Hardware Wallet.

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Head to bitbox.swiss slash walker

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and use the promo code walker for 5% off.

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I'm really excited to have Bitbox on board as a sponsor

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and the Bitbox O2 has really exceeded my expectations.

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It is Bitcoin only.

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It is fully open source,

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meaning you can check the firmware, the app code,

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the schematics and the blueprints

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for the device itself on GitHub.

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You can even build one yourself

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if you're feeling really ambitious

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or you can head to bitbox.swiss slash walker

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and use that promo code walker for 5% off.

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Thank you to Bitbox and the Bitbox O2 Hardware Wallet

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for sponsoring another fucking Bitcoin podcast.

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Without further ado,

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let's get into this Bitcoin talk with Peter McCormack.

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I'm still new to this whole podcasting game.

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Me and Danny have this rule now when we're making shows,

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no one's allowed to talk until we're recording.

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So we have this weird thing where if a guest turns up,

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I just go and wait in the bedroom

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because what happens is...

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Oh my God.

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All your hellos and your intros are your best bits.

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Right.

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You just said something really cool.

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I want that on the podcast and now I can't do it.

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And then you try and redo it and it doesn't work.

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So I just hide until the mics and things on,

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we just go straight in.

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I'm gonna start just like popping up from below the desk,

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like just waiting for the guests to come in and then,

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yeah, hello.

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Hello.

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Are you whispering?

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Are you whispering because your good wife is asleep?

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Do I?

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Well, okay.

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People have been saying, they're like,

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dude, you gotta quit forcing your voice or whatever.

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And I'm like, guys, I swear,

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this is actually how my voice just normally sounds.

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You're just used to hearing me as a character

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in playing Fiat High on cocaine or something like that.

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I swear my voice is normally like this.

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It's also like, it'll warm up

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once I get a few more cups of coffee in my system.

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In fairness, it's very early for you.

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I've been up for six hours.

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God, you lucky people across the pond

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just getting to start that day a whole half a day ahead of us.

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How are we supposed to catch up?

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I know.

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You're sounding great to me.

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Do I sound okay on your end?

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You sound amazing.

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Okay, okay, excellent.

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So just to run through a couple of things

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before we get going,

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because I just wanna make sure

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you're good with everything.

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I'll do everything.

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Well, I mean, look, if I can't, I'll say I can't.

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No, no, no.

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There's one topic I can't get into

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and I'll get into why, but.

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Okay, well, so my goal with this, Peter,

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is really to, not to toot your horn too much,

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but you were the first Bitcoin podcast I listened to.

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You were still my go-to Bitcoin podcast.

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And I think that's the case for quite a lot of people.

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And so you're always on,

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well, I guess now we're on the same side of the mic.

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We're both on a mic, but you know what I mean?

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You're always on one side of the mic.

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And I thought, I myself am curious.

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I've heard a little bit through our personal discussions

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and whatnot, but I wanna know a little bit more

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about your story kind of getting started with all of this.

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And I think we can go through some of that,

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but then also it's like you've built this now

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into this incredible podcasting empire, so to speak.

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And you're doing the docs now,

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and which I think are super important.

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I was just watching again, the one that you did in Argentina

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and it's just, it's fantastic.

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And so I wanna talk about some of that,

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like the actual work that you're doing.

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As you saw, I took some questions on Twitter and on Noster.

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There were a couple that were like,

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I figured somebody was gonna throw some of these out there.

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Things about, yeah.

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Things about, you're like, okay, block five.

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Things that have been asked and answered before.

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So if you would rather-

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No, I'd do it all, man.

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Yeah, you're good with it?

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Okay, cool.

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Yeah, because I just wanted to make sure,

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the last thing I wanted was for this to feel like

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any sort of a, ooh, gotcha, Peter.

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I just wanna hear your story.

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We'll throw in some other stuff.

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I think we'll find some good ways to weave things in.

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And yeah, besides that, I mean,

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we'll just kind of flow with it and see how it goes.

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Man, I'm okay with gotchas.

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Okay, well damn, I should have prepared

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some more gotchas then, shit.

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I might censor myself sometimes.

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My dad's actually in the room over here.

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Okay, okay, well-

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He's come over for a few months.

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He's basically the kit man for my football team.

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Nice.

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We're in my lounge in front of a bit of artwork my son did.

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I don't know if you can-

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Wait, that's fantastic.

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Yeah.

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Dude, that's amazing.

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So if I censor myself,

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I won't talk about the drugs and hookers

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because I don't want my dad to know about that.

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Yeah, Peter, you just talked about the drugs and hookers.

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Shit.

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Yeah, I said no to them.

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It's okay, we'll cut that part from the show

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so that way he won't know when he's hearing it later.

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What would happen, yeah.

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Okay, well, sweet.

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So well, with that then, let's just dive right into this.

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I'm still figuring this thing out.

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So I'm just gonna do my 10 second intro

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and give a intro to you

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and then we'll just pop this thing off and start talking.

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Not that we haven't been talking.

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I like this pre-roll.

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This feels much better.

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Otherwise I'm usually like,

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okay, now let me press record and we'll wait.

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This is the pre-roll.

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This is just the roll.

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Okay, we're going.

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Well, in that case, greetings and salutations,

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my fellow plebs.

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My name is Walker and this is The Bitcoin Podcast.

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Today's episode is Bitcoin Talk

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and I am joined by The Bitcoin Talker

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and The Bitcoin Podcaster, Peter McCormack.

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McCormack, right?

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I always get confused with the McCormick's

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versus the McCormacks.

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I'm saying that right.

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The mix of the Scottish with the Irish.

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Okay, okay, there we go.

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See, my American is showing here.

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Well, Peter, it's great to have you on the show.

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You started in 2017, I believe.

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I just checked you.

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You did episode 732 yesterday,

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which is insane of what Bitcoin did.

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I think about a month ago,

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you said you had over 40 million downloads,

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which is just insanity.

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So thank you for coming on another fucking Bitcoin podcast

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as this one is colloquially called,

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but it's great to have you on the show.

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Welcome.

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Well, man, it's great to talk to you.

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Obviously, we've bumped into each other

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a few times at conferences.

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I can't remember the first one.

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Was it Lugano?

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I think it was Lugano.

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You were sitting outside the hotel

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with entertaining a crew.

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There was wine involved.

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It was a nice time.

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And there's a great conference.

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Yeah, I saw you in Prague a couple of times.

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You and your wife are the absolute professionals at this.

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I'm kind of retiring from that now

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because people like you and also Joe Hall,

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you actually prepare and do a proper job,

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whereas I just turn up and go,

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yeah, so-and-so's coming on and I sound like an idiot.

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But yeah, we've met a few times.

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I think you're great.

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I think you and your wife are great.

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Well, soon to be three.

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Right back at you.

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Soon to be three.

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I can say that because you've been tweeting out her bump.

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Yeah, yeah, it's public knowledge now.

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When we were emceeing Miami,

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she was actually pregnant at that point,

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but it was still very early on.

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It was hush-hush.

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So usually at conferences, we like to imbibe.

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There's alcohol involved.

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And so this one was the first one

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where people are offering us drinks

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or we're around whatever open bar

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and Carla's just looking at it like,

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ah, I can't have myself a drink.

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And people are like, what, are you sick?

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What's wrong?

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Well, taking a sober month, just a sober month.

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Well, it's like a sober nine, 10 months,

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but that was at least a nice little experience.

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The baby has already been to his first Bitcoin conference.

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He just doesn't even know it yet.

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That's it.

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Well, I think you told me secretly in Prague.

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We did.

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Yeah, she was still pregnant in Prague.

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Yeah, I was like, by the way, Carla, she's knocked up.

265
00:10:14,680 --> 00:10:16,200
Yeah, she's not getting fat.

266
00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,240
She's just pregnant.

267
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,240
Please don't say anything about her weight.

268
00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,400
It's totally natural.

269
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,680
But yeah, well, and I appreciate,

270
00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:27,280
you told me in Prague, you were like,

271
00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:28,520
I got something for you.

272
00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,520
I got something that I need to send you to all fathers.

273
00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,840
And honestly, I was like, what is Peter about to send me?

274
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,920
And then I just received this baby manual,

275
00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:40,640
which is pretty amazing.

276
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,280
I thought that was, it's a nice way for my male brain

277
00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,400
to be able to understand this whole being a father thing.

278
00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,400
Dude, when my son was born, which is coming up to 20 years

279
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,520
ago now, which is insane, because we obviously

280
00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:59,800
look a similar age, someone sent me that book, right?

281
00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,040
Because my ex-wife, she had all the books,

282
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,440
like a stack of these books, and they were so fucking boring,

283
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,480
like pictures of women about to give birth, like awful stuff.

284
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:10,680
And I was like, I'm not reading this shit.

285
00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:11,960
And then somebody sent me that book,

286
00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:13,520
and I was like, oh, no, this is for me.

287
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,520
So now anyone I like, not anyone, just anyone I like,

288
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,720
who has got a baby, do I send that to the dude?

289
00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:20,920
I mean, it's perfect.

290
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,280
It's like a little bit different than your typical,

291
00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:24,960
what is it?

292
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:26,680
What's the classic one, the what to expect

293
00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:29,760
when you're expecting, or something like that?

294
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,760
Do you have the Haynes car manuals?

295
00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,080
Is that a thing in America?

296
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,360
I do not.

297
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,640
Yeah, so the book is based on the Haynes car manuals.

298
00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:41,960
OK, OK.

299
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:43,600
I'll get you a link and send it to you.

300
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,440
But if anyone's listening, if you Google

301
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,600
the Haynes car manual and look on the images,

302
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,600
I'll just send you a link in the chat now so you can.

303
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:53,400
Perfect.

304
00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:54,640
I've actually lost where we are.

305
00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:55,440
Here we go.

306
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:56,960
Right, where's the chat?

307
00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:58,040
Here we go.

308
00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:02,040
So if you click on this link, so the Haynes car manuals,

309
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,240
back in the olden days, people used to fix their own cars.

310
00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,440
Oh, wow, what a novel concept.

311
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:08,360
It's weird, isn't it?

312
00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,720
And so we had these manuals.

313
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,600
My dad would use them, right?

314
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,320
And so you have these Haynes car manuals.

315
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:15,480
So the book is based on that.

316
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,920
It's like a car manual for babies.

317
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:19,960
I mean, honestly, it's perfect.

318
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:24,120
It's a sad thing that nowadays, the only way you can really

319
00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:25,960
fix your car nowadays is if you're also

320
00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,640
a computer engineer, because the majority of what's

321
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:29,320
going in your car.

322
00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,520
I just saw Toyota is putting out a truck that's

323
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,200
completely bare bones again.

324
00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,880
It's starting at 10k or something, something reasonable.

325
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:40,880
And there are basically no computers in there.

326
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,080
You can put a couple bells and whistles if you want,

327
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,280
but there aren't a lot of knobs and switches.

328
00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,840
It's just a truck, which is kind of beautiful,

329
00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,280
because I mean, not to be too doomsday,

330
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,760
but we get an EMP anywhere near a major city

331
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,000
and everyone's car, except for one dude who still

332
00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,760
has an early 90s Chevy.

333
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,360
They're not moving ever again.

334
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:03,880
We're stuck.

335
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,600
Yeah, it's a scary thing, though.

336
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,120
I don't know.

337
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,160
Makes you crave, perhaps it's nostalgia,

338
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,680
perhaps it's just a little bit of doomsday prepper,

339
00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:18,680
but you're like, I need a vehicle that runs without all

340
00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:21,040
these modern contraptions.

341
00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,640
I need a car that just runs on petrol.

342
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,880
I need tins of pineapple, and I need my guns.

343
00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,280
Exactly, and preferably a couple of knives, maybe.

344
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,480
I'm a big axe guy myself.

345
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,880
I think that axes are just the perfect tool.

346
00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,520
Use them as an axe, use them as a hammer,

347
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,520
use them as a thrown or held weapon.

348
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,200
They're just fun.

349
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,640
You have spoons and forks and stuff.

350
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:49,040
Yeah, a spatula like you, whatever you need.

351
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,640
Yeah, exactly.

352
00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,560
I mean, you can do some damage with a rolling pin, though.

353
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:55,720
That's for sure.

354
00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,120
You can take down a tyrannical government with a rolling pin.

355
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:00,400
It's been done before.

356
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,640
It's been done before.

357
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:03,840
Oh, man.

358
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,560
Well, I could talk about rolling pins and tyrannical governments

359
00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:10,320
all day, but I want to talk about you a little bit, Peter,

360
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:16,440
because you are, I mean, I have to imagine the most prolific

361
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,240
Bitcoin podcaster out there right now.

362
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,640
There's a lot of Bitcoin podcasts.

363
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,760
This is why mine is called another fucking Bitcoin podcast.

364
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,080
But yours is the one that I started with.

365
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,960
I still listen to it consistently,

366
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:31,920
although sometimes it's honestly hard to keep up.

367
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:33,640
Now that I'm making my own podcast,

368
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,760
I'm like, I don't have as much time to listen to other podcasts.

369
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:38,640
This is a bit of a problem.

370
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:44,280
But I think it's been a huge, huge benefit to the Bitcoin space.

371
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,280
It's how so many people have started, I think, those dives down the rabbit hole,

372
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,880
finding a conversation on what Bitcoin did,

373
00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:52,680
that they're like, OK, this is great.

374
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,520
You had a whole beginner series.

375
00:14:54,520 --> 00:15:00,040
You've now done that whole broken money series with Lynn Alden, which was awesome.

376
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,880
Great, great book and great series there, I think,

377
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:07,520
makes it super approachable for people who maybe don't like reading the written

378
00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,800
words on the page quite as much anymore.

379
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:14,960
But you started in, I was looking, November 2017.

380
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:15,400
Yeah.

381
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:20,240
So at this point, we know, I mean, it's been a number of years now.

382
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:25,360
And I think we're getting close to answering the question of what Bitcoin did.

383
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,600
I would love to kind of know, though, take a step back

384
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,320
and understand what Peter did.

385
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:37,520
How did Peter find himself here today from back then?

386
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,360
How did this all get started?

387
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,400
Well, I mean, look, I've told it a few times.

388
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,200
So somebody may have heard this before.

389
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:44,520
So I'll do the quick version.

390
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:50,160
But so about a decade ago, I was working in advertising.

391
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,040
Had quite a successful company.

392
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:53,040
Just doing well.

393
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:58,800
We had a central London office, 44-star, 3 million turnover UK pounds.

394
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,360
So it's probably about $4 million at the time.

395
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,240
It was going well.

396
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:04,400
I got married.

397
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:05,840
And then I got divorced very quickly.

398
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,080
It was like a very quick turnaround.

399
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:13,320
And I tried to do the whole co-parent whilst commuting to London.

400
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:14,240
It didn't work.

401
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,400
And I was falling out of love with advertising anyway

402
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,080
because it's just bullshit.

403
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,160
And so I just quit.

404
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:22,400
I just quit.

405
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,040
Took a year off.

406
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,960
And about that time, my mum was also sick.

407
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:30,360
My mum had cancer.

408
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,440
So I was traveling back and forth to Ireland.

409
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,560
And I was running a lot.

410
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,480
I was just doing a lot of like, you know, I went vegan with my mum.

411
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,640
I was just doing a lot of things, you know, stuff to just kind of distract

412
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,160
myself from the world.

413
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,160
And then we wanted to treat mum with cannabis oil.

414
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,480
And so I talked to my dad about that.

415
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,760
He's like, well, you can buy anything called the dark web.

416
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,200
But you need this thing called Bitcoin.

417
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:58,840
So we went on Coinbase, bought some Bitcoin, bought some cannabis oil.

418
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:00,920
Didn't work, sadly.

419
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,520
And then I had this bit of Bitcoin left.

420
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,000
I was going to go back on Coinbase and sell it.

421
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,120
I wasn't really that interested in Bitcoin.

422
00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:09,760
I dabbled in it in 2013 for similar reasons.

423
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,600
And then there was this other thing on there, though, called Ethereum.

424
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:14,680
I was like, oh, what the hell is this?

425
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,680
So I just like Googled Ethereum.

426
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,320
I was like, oh, you know, I was really involved about this new blockchain

427
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,240
revolution is going to take over the planet.

428
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,120
It's like the internet 2.0.

429
00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:25,360
So I was like, well, I'm not working.

430
00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:27,720
And I've got loads of time on my hands.

431
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,320
And I've got some money left over from my agency.

432
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:30,800
So I just I bought everything.

433
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:31,520
I bought Bitcoin.

434
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,400
I bought Dash, Monero, every shit coin going.

435
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:36,560
Gnosis was one.

436
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,840
I thought probably there's probably like 100 I bought.

437
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,760
And like everything just went up.

438
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:41,640
It was like 2000.

439
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:42,680
I'm a genius.

440
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,200
Yeah, I am fucking genius here.

441
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,360
And so, yeah, it was brilliant.

442
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:52,440
I was having this amazing year where I turned 32,000 pounds

443
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,360
into about I think about one point to one point three million pounds in about eight.

444
00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:57,480
Jesus.

445
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:58,720
I remember one day I went to bed.

446
00:17:58,720 --> 00:17:59,200
I woke up.

447
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:00,560
I was like another 100 grand richer.

448
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,880
I was like, oh, my God, I'm so clever.

449
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,440
And so because I had all this money, I had a friend who was living on

450
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:07,760
Venice Beach in L.A.

451
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,320
So I kept going across to see him.

452
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,960
I'd go over for like a week or two and just hang out on the beach and just act

453
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,880
like the genius I was.

454
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,160
But also during this period, I met this guy called Rich Roll who runs a podcast.

455
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,360
He's like this vegan ultra athlete.

456
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:25,040
And I knew like the trading didn't have legs.

457
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,480
And I was just like, well, your job's cool.

458
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,920
You basically just get on planes, go and talk to people and get paid for it.

459
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:32,440
And I was like, this is amazing.

460
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,200
How would you do it?

461
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,240
And he was like, well, here's a course.

462
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:37,120
Here's the equipment.

463
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:38,760
And it just get on with it.

464
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,200
He did say to me, he said, so many people have come to me and said this

465
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:43,200
and everyone gives up.

466
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,240
Just don't give up.

467
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:46,080
So I was like, all right, cool.

468
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,280
So I went back to Justin's place in Venice.

469
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,080
I went on Amazon, I bought all the equipment.

470
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:51,280
And then I was like, who's in LA?

471
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,400
And there was a guy, Luke Martin, who's a bit of a trader.

472
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:54,000
So I messaged him.

473
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,440
I was like, yo, dude, I'm going to start a podcast.

474
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:56,520
You want to be the first guest?

475
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:57,280
He said, yeah.

476
00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,280
So I Ubered around his, did that, went back to the UK,

477
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,400
interviewed this guy called Day Trader Nick.

478
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:04,280
That was episode two.

479
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:09,760
And then I saw this picture of this guy on Twitter who had like this long beard.

480
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:15,320
He had an AR-15 or whatever it is and a hat that said, make Bitcoin great again.

481
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:16,560
It was like Jameson Lobnall.

482
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,680
I was like, man, this guy's one cool motherfucker.

483
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:20,400
So I messaged him.

484
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,800
I was like, yeah, hi, man.

485
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,520
I've just started a podcast.

486
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,680
If I come out and see you, can I interview you?

487
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,920
And can you take me to shoot some guns?

488
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:32,520
He was like, yeah.

489
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,360
So weirdly enough, he was actually in Bedford a few weeks ago.

490
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:38,240
That was such a weird thing six years later to have him in my hometown.

491
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,800
But I did those first three.

492
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,680
And at the end of that, 17, then I didn't do any for a few weeks.

493
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,440
And then I did a few more.

494
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,480
And then what happened was I ended up, I think it was like eighth

495
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:55,080
or 10th interview, I interviewed Lynne Albrecht, Russell Briggs' mom in Austin.

496
00:19:55,080 --> 00:20:00,080
And after she left, it was like that one really kind of like, that one really hit me.

497
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,520
I was like, actually, this is kind of important.

498
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,720
This isn't just about me and what I want to do.

499
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,880
It's about actually getting important stuff out there.

500
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,000
And so I just kind of made the decision, right, I'm going to have a go for this.

501
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,640
And I'm going to just try and make this come up in my career.

502
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,200
And here we are six years, yes.

503
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,160
But pretty much six years later, because I started the show in November 17,

504
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,920
six years later, and this is what I've done for six years.

505
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:24,720
Wow.

506
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,280
You changed the events.

507
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:31,480
Yeah, I mean, it all starts with vegans in LA, I guess.

508
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,000
You know, it's like many great tales, right?

509
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,880
Well, the funny thing was when I did that James some interview right after it,

510
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,280
he's like, right, we're going to go and get barbecue.

511
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:40,800
And I was like, oh, fuck.

512
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,200
So I went to this barbecue place.

513
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:43,400
I was like, hmm.

514
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:44,880
What's still vegan at this point?

515
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:45,400
Yeah.

516
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:46,680
So I was like, oh, boy.

517
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,120
What could I have here?

518
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:50,480
I think no, I think I'd gone.

519
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,880
I think I'd stopped the veganism, stayed vegetarian.

520
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,880
And they had like greens and whatever that weird potato stuff is.

521
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,280
They have barbecue places, scraps, scraps.

522
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:01,000
What do they call it?

523
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,400
You mean like like some just like chopped up potato?

524
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,120
Are you talking like a potato salad type thing?

525
00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:08,920
No, no, whatever.

526
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:10,800
And it was like, this isn't going to work.

527
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,480
So I was like, so I just had a barbecue with him, stop being a vegan that day.

528
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,000
So that was Jameson Lopp ended your veganism.

529
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,360
Yeah, he meat, meat, peeled me.

530
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:19,960
Wow.

531
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:20,480
Wow.

532
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,440
I mean, that's actually quite a nice claim to fame.

533
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:27,640
I mean, especially in in this space, I think the number of vegans that I've

534
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:33,920
heard of in Bitcoin, there's a couple there's, you know, yeah, absolutely.

535
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,400
But it's a tough thing to be, especially at Bitcoin conferences.

536
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,840
There's always steak dinners just like I feel like every night dripping

537
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:42,800
everywhere.

538
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,960
Yeah, like everybody's got pocket steaks.

539
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,280
And when they're on stage, it's like they're just taking a little bite of it

540
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:48,920
here and there.

541
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,960
Yeah.

542
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,720
That's that's that's kind of wild, though.

543
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,760
I think the probably the advice that you got of just a lot of people have come to

544
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,840
me with this, you know, everybody wants to to start something.

545
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,800
They see someone that's successful in a space.

546
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,800
It's like, OK, let me let me go try that, too.

547
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:08,960
But a lot of people just drop off with it.

548
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,560
And I think that's the case with a lot of stuff.

549
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,520
It's just it's like that graph of like, you know, you are here and it's all a

550
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,280
flat line. And then, you know, right after you you quit is when you would have hit

551
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,160
the exponential kind of growth.

552
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:28,160
When when was the when did it really like take off in terms and I don't even know

553
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:32,640
what in the context of how many downloads you have today, like 40 million.

554
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,800
I don't even know what takeoff felt to you like back then.

555
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,040
But was there a moment when you're like, no, it's weird.

556
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,480
Like, I mean, I've got a literally got a chart here in front of me.

557
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:42,880
I put all my downloads.

558
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,080
I so track it.

559
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,120
One thing I will say is I always treated it like a business pretty much from the

560
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:50,120
start. I was like, if this is going to work, it's going to be a business.

561
00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:53,600
And so you've got to have a brand, you have to have good quality marketing.

562
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,080
You've got to have a focus on good quality content.

563
00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:00,120
Like I studied interviewing for a good few months to try and understand

564
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:03,320
what what what did good interviews do.

565
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,200
But there's no real moment where you're like, oh, my God, this is taken off.

566
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,800
You know, you just every month you got a few more downloads than the previous one.

567
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,280
Yeah, there's certain things that happen.

568
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,680
You know, the first sponsor you get that phones you up and says,

569
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,000
oh, I'd like to give you some money.

570
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,680
Yeah. And I can't remember exactly when that was.

571
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaking of sponsors, I was just sponsored by Bitbox and the Bitbox

572
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,680
O2 Bitcoin only hardware wallet.

573
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,760
Real talk, I wish I would have found this wallet sooner.

574
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,040
It is extremely easy to use.

575
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,280
It's fast to set up and it's fully open source.

576
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:44,640
Head to Bitbox.Swiss slash Walker and use promo code Walker for five percent off.

577
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,640
But I'm going to imagine I spent at least a year, year and a half

578
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:48,560
without making any money.

579
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,040
And, you know, I still do the interviews in person.

580
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,240
So it was expensive.

581
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,400
I think this is what some people don't realize.

582
00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,080
They don't see the start where I would get on a plane to New York,

583
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,160
find the cheapest hotel I could get.

584
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:04,760
Book three or four interviews.

585
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:09,520
Once the interview is done, go back to my hotel room, edit it, publish it,

586
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,880
get up the next day, get on a plane, whatever the cheapest route

587
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,560
I could find to get to, I don't know, Ohio.

588
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,440
Get there and do one interview.

589
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,400
I mean, these trips I used to do seven, eight flights per trip.

590
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:28,640
And I would be like New York, Ohio, Portland, L.A., San Diego, New York,

591
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,200
home or something, some weird whatever trip to get all the interviews

592
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,200
I want to do and like carry my little case around with me.

593
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,480
And I did that for a good.

594
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,280
I did that all the way up until Covid.

595
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,880
Yeah, when Covid, it was just me in my case, going everywhere on my own

596
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,200
and going to people's offices or houses or whatever.

597
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,280
And it was, you know, so it was a lot of hard work and I was losing money.

598
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,960
I mean, it got to the point where, you know, I was about two.

599
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,520
I was about two months from having no money at all.

600
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,360
I think when my first sponsor came in,

601
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:03,720
I actually had to lie to the mortgage company to keep my house.

602
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,840
I was going to lose my house.

603
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,800
So, yeah, it was a real slog.

604
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:08,960
So there's no real moment.

605
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,560
It's just like downloads grow, go up.

606
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,440
And then, you know, certain things happen, like you get certain interviews,

607
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,600
like getting that Jameson lot one or Charlie Lee early on.

608
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,400
And that felt big.

609
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,440
Or maybe when I got the Nick Szabo interview, I was like, wow,

610
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,160
I've got an Xabo interview or, you know, so there's like moments like that.

611
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,520
And there was a moment after now you've interviewed a president.

612
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,520
Well, I was about to say, yeah, yeah, like Kaylee.

613
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:38,200
So the book Kaylee ones, like the whole thing was weird in itself, just weird.

614
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,240
And my back was busted.

615
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,680
I had sciatica. So I was like, oh, I couldn't sit down at the time.

616
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:49,960
So I had to as Michael Peterson from Bitcoin Beach, like raided his company

617
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,360
said, look, I've got all these different drugs.

618
00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:53,240
Just try them. And I did.

619
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,320
So and that gave me the hour to say, oh, I'm going to do this.

620
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,400
It gave me the hour to sit down and do the interview.

621
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,680
And I remember after that interview, I got the next day, I got up

622
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,360
and I flew to New York to fly home.

623
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:10,800
And it was only when I got on the plane in New York, because, you know,

624
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,880
I was always flying economy, but because my back was so screwed,

625
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,080
I upgrade on that one.

626
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,200
I was like, I'm going to have a business class flight because I need to lay down.

627
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,800
You know, the drugs will get me through the I mean, there's there's

628
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:28,000
actually a photo from when I took the flight from El Salvador to Austin,

629
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:33,080
where I'm laying down on the floor between rows of seats because I cannot sit down.

630
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:35,840
It was such agony.

631
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,760
But anyway, I was like, this flight to London is too long.

632
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:45,400
So I upgraded to the business flight and and I just sat down after.

633
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,040
I was like, well, man, that's wild.

634
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:54,280
That's a sitting president and yeah, just from sitting there one day and going,

635
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,120
you know, I want to do a podcast and messaging somebody and then contacting

636
00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:00,960
Luke to be wherever that was for four and a half years later,

637
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,360
interview the president. It was pretty wild.

638
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:08,520
I mean, that's I actually I just I just rewatched that interview with with Bukele,

639
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,240
because you've done now you've done two with him, right?

640
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:16,760
Yeah, two. And it was one before before the legal tender law and one after.

641
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,160
Right. Yeah.

642
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,760
I mean, it was it was actually I noticed because I was just, you know, of course,

643
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,720
I'm doing doing my my research on on you again.

644
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:29,640
I noticed Bukele was was pretty he seemed pretty comfortable with you

645
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:30,960
in that first interview.

646
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,400
You could tell by the second interview with you.

647
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,680
He was like he was just completely relaxed.

648
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,000
Like he looked like and I suppose he was also then after the legal tender law,

649
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,640
probably maybe a little bit less stress on his plate.

650
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,920
But I mean, how how was that interview?

651
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:47,960
How did you how did you find Bukele?

652
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,800
Because he I mean, people have a lot of opinions about him,

653
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,720
whether they think he's a a genius who is bringing in the, you know,

654
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:00,760
the hyper Bitcoinized era for nation states, or if he's a dictator

655
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:05,960
who is, you know, doing a heavy handed approach by locking up all these gangsters.

656
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,480
I mean, what was your read on him?

657
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,640
How did you how did you find that conversation?

658
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,520
Yeah, I mean, look, none of us have walked his shoes.

659
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,240
No, he's become the president of a third world country,

660
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,360
which has a huge gang problem.

661
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:20,440
At one point, the highest murder rate in the world.

662
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,800
It is a drugs corridor in Central America.

663
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,400
He has big issues to deal with influence from local

664
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,280
bordering countries, influence from America.

665
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:38,280
I mean, never walked those shoes, wouldn't have no idea how to deal with it.

666
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,880
What I would say about him is that he had a presence I've never felt

667
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,960
from anyone else when he came into a room

668
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,560
and the way sometimes you look through, you mean, he he looked through you.

669
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,880
It was it was a it's a hard thing to explain.

670
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,560
But what after I left that first because our first meeting, I just met with him.

671
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,560
I didn't actually do the interview at the first meeting.

672
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,800
And I just left thinking, OK, there's only a certain time

673
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,400
a person who can do this job and someone like that who who can carry

674
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,280
the weight of the world on them, because you have to make tough decisions.

675
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:16,480
It's like, do I know mass mass incarcerate people and, you know,

676
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,920
and all the kind of human rights issues that go with that, all the civil

677
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,920
liberties issues that go with that, but reduce the murder rate down to one

678
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,840
of the lowest, you know, in South America.

679
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,480
Or do I try and do this through legitimate, whatever we call legitimate

680
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,200
judicial systems, knowing that nothing fucking changes?

681
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,280
Yeah. And he's come into a country that has been plagued by dictators,

682
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,000
corrupt presidents who've robbed the country blind.

683
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,480
Now, you know, a corrupt political system.

684
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,640
And I've I've no water issues, man.

685
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,360
I know the country is definitely trajectory wise.

686
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,920
It's doing very well economically.

687
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,560
It's doing well to want to tourism.

688
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,960
He's been a great advert for the country.

689
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,320
I know there are questions around civil liberties with the incarceration

690
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,200
of gang members or anyone with a tattoo.

691
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,440
Alice Gladstein's talked about a lot, but man, it's a rock and a hard place, right?

692
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,600
What do you do? But he did have a presence that was

693
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,840
that was something I've never felt with anyone else.

694
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,880
Yeah, yeah, I think it's I did kind of shit myself when I asked him

695
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:27,880
if he was a dictator.

696
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,040
I remember that question. I was like, dang, OK, you went.

697
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,800
You just went right for it. Yeah, fuck it.

698
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,120
I had to. Why not?

699
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:35,880
I got told I softballed him on the first one.

700
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:37,400
OK. OK.

701
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,600
And then you get called a propagandist for the regime or something like that.

702
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:41,960
But that did happen.

703
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,920
You know, I was getting that first trip when I was making.

704
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,400
No, is it the second one when I was making the film?

705
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,560
I had people like attacking me on Instagram or Twitter.

706
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,920
Yeah. People in El Salvador who were saying I was doing

707
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,000
business with Bukhari. I was a businessman.

708
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:58,880
I was there to do business.

709
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,760
I'm there to rob the indigenous people of El Salvador.

710
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,800
I mean, it's obviously all bullshit, but, you know, I was like,

711
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,800
so this second interview, I've just got to be tough, but within

712
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,120
like within my lane.

713
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,600
Right. With with still all due respect to a sitting president.

714
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,400
Yes, exactly.

715
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,520
That's a that's a that's a tough spot to be in.

716
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,800
You know, I think it's a it's it's very easy.

717
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,360
Often times, you know, you're in a position where you're

718
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,160
easy, oftentimes for us.

719
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,280
And this is certainly not something I I think of Alex Gladstein

720
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,760
because he's actually, you know, doing doing the work.

721
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:38,760
So like when he brings a criticism, I take that very, very seriously.

722
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,840
But for a lot of people who do not do the work that Gladstein does

723
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:48,400
and who just kind of have a knee jerk reaction to someone like Bukele,

724
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:53,040
I think it's very easy to have a negative knee jerk reaction when we have this

725
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:57,040
semblance of legitimate legal action and law and order in the so-called developed

726
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,640
world. And as you said, you know, can you imagine being in his place

727
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,000
where it's like, OK, keep my country on the same path, keep trying

728
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,520
the broken things that don't work or do something that is really, really radical

729
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,280
and, you know, take maybe take the country in a different direction.

730
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,880
And, you know, it's a gamble, too, because maybe that doesn't work.

731
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,280
And it's a gamble he took.

732
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,880
And then bringing Bitcoin on kind of the the multiple middle fingers

733
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,640
he's given to the IMF, I have to just, you know, enjoy those when I see them,

734
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,280
because that's you love to see that.

735
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,520
Of course. Look, I mean, I think what he's done is amazing.

736
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,600
I just cannot opine on certain things, which I'm kind of out of my depth

737
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,280
or that I'm lost on.

738
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,160
It's like it's like most of these issues, most of these complicated issues

739
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,960
in the world that people discuss without nuance on Twitter,

740
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,960
if it's Gaza and Israel, Israel, you know, when people like take a

741
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,960
hard position on one side and I'm sat there thinking, well, I feel sorry

742
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,840
for Israelis who've been massacred and I feel sorry for people in Gaza

743
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,760
who are under a blockade and bombing.

744
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,520
And, you know, these these issues are so complicated.

745
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,720
And I think he's dealing with complicated issues.

746
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,560
And like I said, I'm not having to make those decisions.

747
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,160
I if I was put in the position, I'd crumble.

748
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,240
I wouldn't have the ability.

749
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,360
It takes a strong man to be able to sit in that seat and make those decisions.

750
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,760
So, you know,

751
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,760
I think you have to say, are the people in El Salvador happy?

752
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,320
Yes. OK.

753
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,840
How do you deal with the civil liberty issues then?

754
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,360
How do you deal with the fact that he has essentially broken the Constitution?

755
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,000
He says he has to be kind of has.

756
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:34,840
OK, what is the long term plan?

757
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,440
Is it a third term, fourth term?

758
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,960
You know, what happens when things go bad?

759
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,400
Are you a benevolent dictator?

760
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,360
You know, it's all those kind of issues that bring it with them.

761
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,920
But look, there are more experienced journalists now

762
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,040
who will be ready to take that hot seat with them.

763
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,320
My position was really the Bitcoin one.

764
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,800
You don't think you'll do a number three interview?

765
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,400
No, I think so. I think at the right time.

766
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:56,520
You know, I would like to do it.

767
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,040
I think complete the trilogy.

768
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,400
I think the time to do so, I know when the time to do it is it's after a ball run,

769
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,160
because after a ball run, everything he's stacked, everything he's done,

770
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:08,680
he will be proven right.

771
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,240
You know, if he's stacked, I don't know what he's stacked.

772
00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:13,520
If he's stacked 50 million a Bitcoin for El Salvador,

773
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,360
he might have 250 million or if he's stacked 200 million,

774
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,560
he might have a billion. Who knows? Right.

775
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,080
And that's the time to sit down and go like, well done.

776
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,960
Your conviction was strong and you've been proven right.

777
00:34:24,720 --> 00:34:26,880
Yeah, that's the time to have that conversation.

778
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,360
And if you'll have it, I'd absolutely love to go back and do it.

779
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,200
Yes. I mean, you've you've interviewed

780
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,960
some well, like sailor, for instance, who has recently

781
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,000
he is very obviously being proven right with his strategy.

782
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:46,520
I I love that sailor interview because your son was able to ask him,

783
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,440
you know, just I loved it because, you know, you're listening to it.

784
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:50,760
And he's like, do you have any advice?

785
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,440
You know, just a very honest and and simple question.

786
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:59,560
And sailor just rattles off that list of, you know, his basically 10 rules per life.

787
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,000
And I'm like, you like it just so flawless.

788
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,800
And I'm like, wow, that would you do you have an interview?

789
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,080
I mean, obviously, the Bukele one is kind of like in its own league.

790
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:11,720
Like that's a sitting president.

791
00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:15,440
Is there another interview that where you've just walked away

792
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,240
like one of your recent ones, maybe that you've been like, wow, this was

793
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,200
this was so much more than I could have expected.

794
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,720
Like this was really blew you away from an expectation standpoint.

795
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,200
Yeah, but there's been a few like that.

796
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,760
Yeah. Like Lynn Albrook, the first time I interviewed her,

797
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,000
I just had a profound effect on me.

798
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,680
It's like whatever you class this job in that moment in time,

799
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,880
there's certainly part of it was journalism

800
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,440
because it was asking important questions and getting information out to people.

801
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,440
Of course, the Bukele one was super important.

802
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:49,600
Nick Szabo, just because of the pressure of that interview,

803
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,400
he's done one into kind of kind of one interview ever.

804
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,160
And that was with

805
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,120
Tim, what's his name for our work?

806
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,880
We forget the name Tim. Oh, Tim Ferriss, Tim Ferriss.

807
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,560
But but it wasn't like a one on one interview.

808
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,400
He had Naval with him and the vault did most of the answers.

809
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,400
So it was kind of like the first one on one interview.

810
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,600
Everyone wants to know about him.

811
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,560
And so, you know, I felt a profound sense of responsibility in that one.

812
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,560
And it's a tough one because I'm not a techie.

813
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,960
The one I did recently with Hal Finney's wife, Fran Finney, I mean,

814
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,160
it was a tough interview.

815
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,160
You know, that's a woman who's still deeply in love with her husband.

816
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,760
You know, what are we nearly a decade on from when he passed away?

817
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:38,160
Yeah. And, you know, she's been when that interview comes out,

818
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,360
you wait until you hear what she's been through, because it's horrific.

819
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,520
That's that one's really stuck with me.

820
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,640
I mean, most a lot of Bitcoin interviews, they just tell me about UTXO.

821
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,080
Tell me about 21 million. Right. Tell me about bonds.

822
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,360
It's just like the same. They're not my favorite interviews.

823
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,800
And like and they'll come a time where I will stop doing Bitcoin stuff

824
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,080
because it's I'd rather do personal stories.

825
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,480
That's why I like making the films.

826
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,080
But yeah, it's the personal stories.

827
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,360
Therefore, Fran Finney really stuck with me.

828
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,160
But Kayleigh stuck with me because it's about his whole country,

829
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:13,800
the future of his country.

830
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,120
Is it like in his hands?

831
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,440
Lin Albrook, because Ross got double life sentence for 40 years.

832
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,280
He he was tried on the Kingpin charge, which is just obscene.

833
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,200
And so I mean, I'd have to go back through my back catalogue,

834
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,400
but they're all the ones that really, really stuck out with me.

835
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,280
Another one that just stuck out with me strangely in a different way

836
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,640
was the Ted Cruz one, which I did on stage at the Texas Blockchain Summit,

837
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,640
because I was obviously honored to be interviewing a senator.

838
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,240
And, you know, he he goes in.

839
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:47,000
He's a very different person on stage and off stage.

840
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,200
He goes into full character.

841
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,440
But what really stuck with me is that I think I asked possibly

842
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,720
my best question ever in that interview.

843
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,840
I said to him about polarization in the US, as it's not good.

844
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:05,000
I said, can you can you name me one thing that you think

845
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,520
the progressives do well?

846
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,040
And he fluffed the answer in some ways.

847
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,640
And I said that there wasn't an answer and he couldn't.

848
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,760
And he he refused to give and he refused to give an answer.

849
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,640
I think he couldn't turn around and give that answer.

850
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,280
And so that really stuck with me because I was like,

851
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:25,560
that's the kind of interview I want to do.

852
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,160
I'm going to do tough questions like Sonnenschein.

853
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,480
Did you listen to my interview with Michael Sonnenschein?

854
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:30,360
No, I didn't.

855
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:31,720
Oh, you should go and check that one out.

856
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:33,080
The guy from Grayscale.

857
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,920
Yeah, I pushed him hard in that one, you know, and but I reeled him in.

858
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,920
I, you know, I laid it up.

859
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,640
I set everything out and then I just went after him hard.

860
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,360
And that's those are all those interviews I've listed are important.

861
00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:49,160
Most of the other ones aren't that important.

862
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:50,760
They're useful, right?

863
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,120
You say, oh, you want to learn about Bitcoin?

864
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:53,400
Listen to what Bitcoin did.

865
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,080
Listen to the beginner's guide. They're useful.

866
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,760
But I think all of those ones were important interviews and

867
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,840
I'd much rather be doing important interviews.

868
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,880
Yeah. Now, I think that that's such a good point, especially, you know,

869
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,400
not just for you what you want to do, but I think that people

870
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:15,400
honestly crave those personal stories, those stories that, you know, yes,

871
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,480
there, you know, you have a lot of Bitcoiners who want to hear about nothing but Bitcoin,

872
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:25,480
but those personal stories, I mean, those are still about Bitcoin as well.

873
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,880
It's just telling the story through a lens that actually

874
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:35,080
has a little more meaning in depth than just, you know, technical jargon or macro jargon.

875
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,400
It's talking about the people behind it.

876
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:38,760
And I think people crave that.

877
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,760
Like they want the human side of things.

878
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,640
Yeah. So it's an interesting thing.

879
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:48,200
Some of our podcasts, the first 10, 20 minutes, we might not even be talking about Bitcoin.

880
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,440
Like Freddie knew we talked about 80s films for 10, 15, 20 minutes.

881
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,160
I talked about music with Mark Goodwin for quite a bit.

882
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,280
And it's really interesting because you'll go in the comments and like some nerd will be like,

883
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:01,800
I'm here too. I'm only here for about Bitcoin.

884
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,320
I don't hear about your bullshit life.

885
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:08,040
And I don't want to I don't care about football or they'll put interview starts here and they'll

886
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,560
timestamp like 20 minutes in.

887
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:16,680
But actually, that's just them looking at the interview from a perspective of what they want

888
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:17,400
out of the world.

889
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:22,680
But when I was studying interviews when I first started, one of the things that said is that

890
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,680
you have to be part of it.

891
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,680
Your personality has to be part of it because that's what people come back for.

892
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:33,080
You know, even if they say they hate your show, all the guests that are on my show on other shows,

893
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:33,640
right?

894
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,080
Little does everyone show.

895
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:35,960
Michael Saylor does.

896
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,560
Even if they say they don't like you, they're really coming back because they like the way

897
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:44,040
you're structuring it or your personality or your accent or the way you do things.

898
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,360
And so you have to be part of it's like Rogan Rogan's guests appear everywhere else.

899
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,320
But I like listen to Rogan because of the way he does his interviews.

900
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,840
I don't like listen to Lex Friedman's guests because I don't like listen to the way he does

901
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:55,320
interviews.

902
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,320
And that that just comes down to personal taste.

903
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,880
So you have to build some personality into it.

904
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,040
Yeah, no, I feel the same about Rogan and Lex.

905
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,520
Lex has a really impressive repertoire of interviews.

906
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,720
And he's a very impressive guy.

907
00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:15,720
But I just something I cannot stand listening to his voice, to be honest.

908
00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:16,760
Like it's just.

909
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:22,600
Yeah, look, his guests are very, very good and undoubtedly.

910
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,760
And I do when I do listen to it, I do end up leaving an interview thinking I should love

911
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,120
people in the world more.

912
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,040
But like I listened to his Jared Kushner interview recently.

913
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,360
And, you know, the two things stood out to me.

914
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:40,360
One, it's almost like he doesn't listen to their answers and then respond to them.

915
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,560
He he he just goes from question to question.

916
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:49,800
But also he he let Jared Kushner off on a lot of things where he should have been really,

917
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,200
you know, you can't push every guest right.

918
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,000
If I interview everyone like sunshine, no one's going to come on my show because they're

919
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,520
like, yeah, he's going to fucking go for me.

920
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,040
You can do it occasionally.

921
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,760
But Jared Kushner has got questions to answer.

922
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,280
Yeah, yeah.

923
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:10,280
Things that he has things that he has pushed for in Middle East, especially in the United

924
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:11,640
States, specifically in Jerusalem.

925
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,800
And also there's a certain amount of nepotism to the role he's got in life.

926
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,480
And he's made a lot of money off the back of some of the things he's done.

927
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,680
I mean, the these things topics should be explored.

928
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,120
And I think Lex interviewed him like a friend.

929
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:29,720
Yeah.

930
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:33,560
I mean, maybe that's that's part of that Lex Friedman charm.

931
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,120
Just I'm going to ask you this list of questions.

932
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,120
Maybe most of them are pre approved already.

933
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,560
And we're just going to run through run through the list.

934
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,640
And I know they know like when we did the sunshine interview, which by the way, I was

935
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,400
amazed they asked to come on.

936
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:48,360
They asked for the question.

937
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:49,000
He asked you.

938
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,280
He asked you to come on.

939
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:51,400
Well, his PR team did.

940
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:52,360
So I think they fucked up.

941
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,200
But they asked for questions in advance.

942
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,680
I was like, you're not getting the questions in advance.

943
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,440
That's not how I'll give you some topics.

944
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:01,480
Yeah.

945
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:02,760
But you're not having the questions.

946
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:03,720
No one has the questions.

947
00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:06,520
And if someone turns around to me and says, well, I want to ask.

948
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:07,000
Okay.

949
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:07,800
See you later.

950
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:08,200
Yeah.

951
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:09,240
You know, the questions.

952
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:11,000
It's just not how this works.

953
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,440
This isn't a PR tool for you.

954
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:13,400
This is an interview.

955
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,760
And if I'm pushing you hard, you've got to suck it up and get some good answers.

956
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:17,720
Yeah.

957
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,760
Try to be prepared for anything.

958
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,000
And I mean, you should be ready to answer those kind of questions.

959
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:27,720
And I mean, well, I guess, you know, Peter, perhaps that's a that's a nice transition.

960
00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:33,720
Because speaking of just answering tough questions and not being prepared in advance.

961
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:34,220
Yeah.

962
00:43:34,220 --> 00:43:39,820
But you know, I appreciate you taking this because you're always on one side of the mic.

963
00:43:40,620 --> 00:43:43,660
And now I think people want to hear about you.

964
00:43:44,620 --> 00:43:45,660
And there's also you.

965
00:43:47,500 --> 00:43:47,820
I don't know.

966
00:43:47,820 --> 00:43:49,980
I think they wouldn't be surprised.

967
00:43:51,820 --> 00:43:54,940
Well, you know what, there's a lot of people that just they want to see you.

968
00:43:54,940 --> 00:43:56,060
They want to see you take an L.

969
00:43:57,420 --> 00:44:03,500
You know, you disingenuous, cuck you like, oh, you know, how could you?

970
00:44:03,500 --> 00:44:04,060
Yeah.

971
00:44:04,060 --> 00:44:08,460
Government, Lovin Big Pharma, Lovin, just die.

972
00:44:09,020 --> 00:44:12,300
You know, I love I love that that meme you post.

973
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:18,060
I think it's pinned on your profile now, like how people in the US see me versus how Brits see you.

974
00:44:18,060 --> 00:44:21,740
And, you know, one is basically the the super leftist.

975
00:44:21,740 --> 00:44:22,220
No.

976
00:44:22,220 --> 00:44:23,660
And the other one is Alex Jones.

977
00:44:23,660 --> 00:44:29,100
And I think that that's pretty perfect because, you know, you like early on the pandemic,

978
00:44:29,100 --> 00:44:31,580
you know, people have gone back and they've, you know,

979
00:44:31,580 --> 00:44:34,220
you've you've got millions of screenshot receipts from people.

980
00:44:34,220 --> 00:44:35,980
And I don't think you delete anything either.

981
00:44:35,980 --> 00:44:41,580
You've kind of left up your your record of all all the things you've said, which is which is a good thing.

982
00:44:41,580 --> 00:44:43,180
Archival of stupidity.

983
00:44:43,180 --> 00:44:43,420
Yeah.

984
00:44:43,420 --> 00:44:43,980
But you know what?

985
00:44:43,980 --> 00:44:49,740
That's like I think an archive of stupidity also is a way to show growth, right?

986
00:44:49,740 --> 00:44:53,580
Because our feelings, our opinions change.

987
00:44:54,220 --> 00:45:00,300
Hopefully our principles, the way we approach things stays the same or is enhanced.

988
00:45:00,300 --> 00:45:07,740
But I'd love for you to talk through a little bit to to give something to the the Peter McCormack haters,

989
00:45:07,740 --> 00:45:13,660
McCormack, excuse me, I almost called you Scott, the McCormack haters out there who think,

990
00:45:13,660 --> 00:45:15,900
you know, you were pro lockdown.

991
00:45:15,900 --> 00:45:18,860
You were you were pro vaccine.

992
00:45:18,860 --> 00:45:21,500
You were calling people conspiracy theorists.

993
00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:25,100
And I think that's kind of where the state that it is true.

994
00:45:25,900 --> 00:45:29,020
But I also know because I've I've listened to you a good amount.

995
00:45:29,020 --> 00:45:32,700
You do not you do not feel that way.

996
00:45:32,700 --> 00:45:35,660
Your opinions have changed on the matter.

997
00:45:35,660 --> 00:45:43,500
Can you can you walk me through that that cycle a little bit of let's say status cock to you know,

998
00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:50,060
what whatever rage against the machine that as I see on the shirt there that you are now who I believe.

999
00:45:50,060 --> 00:45:57,180
I was going to say, didn't they have require Vax like Vax cards at one of their shows or something?

1000
00:45:57,180 --> 00:45:59,260
Yeah, they've raised for the machine now.

1001
00:45:59,260 --> 00:46:02,620
I was somebody was saying it the other day to me and I was like, yeah, but look, the thing is,

1002
00:46:03,260 --> 00:46:06,780
when I listen to the songs, they still crush that first.

1003
00:46:06,780 --> 00:46:07,740
It was no crushes.

1004
00:46:07,740 --> 00:46:08,940
I cannot stop listen to that.

1005
00:46:08,940 --> 00:46:10,140
The regime's machine.

1006
00:46:11,100 --> 00:46:12,060
Yeah, they were a bit.

1007
00:46:12,060 --> 00:46:14,940
Oh, look, I mean, look, should we deal with the status cut thing?

1008
00:46:14,940 --> 00:46:18,060
Because I feel with the status cut, it's an elephant in the rub.

1009
00:46:18,060 --> 00:46:19,580
That's so.

1010
00:46:19,580 --> 00:46:23,660
So my my view on government is it's like quite simple.

1011
00:46:23,660 --> 00:46:25,020
I think it's a natural monopoly.

1012
00:46:25,020 --> 00:46:25,520
Right.

1013
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:36,400
So I have historically and traditionally been pro democracy because the places that don't have democracy have tyranny.

1014
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:37,120
Right.

1015
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:43,040
There is only one country close, close to libertarian, which is Somalia.

1016
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,320
And I haven't seen many libertarian Bitcoiners moving there recently.

1017
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:52,880
And so the democracy we have and the freedoms we have, whether it's in the US or the UK,

1018
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,960
they've been fought for over years.

1019
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,360
You know, you kicked us out of your country for more freedom.

1020
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,240
And, you know, they've been fought for.

1021
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:01,760
Democracy has been fought for.

1022
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:06,480
And so I've always been a supporter of that pro democracy.

1023
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:08,800
Does it mean I think government's good?

1024
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,600
No, I don't trust anything that comes out their fucking mouths.

1025
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:13,200
I think they're complete liars.

1026
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,560
Most of them, I think they're career grifters and they're full of shit.

1027
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,240
And I've learned more and more of that over the years.

1028
00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:24,080
But if you wipe out democracy, you may have tyranny, which could be worse.

1029
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:26,720
Some people argue in other places it might be better.

1030
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:27,920
Maybe in Singapore is better.

1031
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,960
But generally speaking, I'm pro democracy.

1032
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,760
It doesn't mean I am pro the current government.

1033
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,680
It doesn't mean I'm pro high taxation.

1034
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,000
But I just have to walk through the steps logically.

1035
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:46,480
Let's just say big red button tomorrow.

1036
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:47,280
Big red button.

1037
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:48,720
Government goes away.

1038
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:52,320
We've got no taxation, no borders.

1039
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:55,760
We've got that libertarian world.

1040
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:56,800
What is going to happen?

1041
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,200
Well, what is going to happen is groups of people are going to have to get together

1042
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:08,240
to organize defense, security, protection, because we know the world is full of very

1043
00:48:08,240 --> 00:48:11,040
dangerous, violent people who will take shit from you if they want to.

1044
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,720
I've been to very scary, I've been to some of the scariest places.

1045
00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:19,520
I've been to the barrios in Caracas, which was once the murder capital of the world.

1046
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:22,400
I've been to places where people don't give a shit.

1047
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,040
They will literally shoot you for fucking five bucks.

1048
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:25,540
Right?

1049
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,840
So you're going to have to have some form of security.

1050
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:30,880
Well, how does that work?

1051
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:31,920
Well, is it a community?

1052
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,160
We get together and we build a security.

1053
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:36,240
Do we put up a fence and build a citadel?

1054
00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:36,960
How does that work?

1055
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,600
And what happens if the place next door attacks us?

1056
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:41,280
Well, we have to build bigger security.

1057
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:42,720
How are we going to govern that security?

1058
00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:44,400
Well, we'll have to elect someone.

1059
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,160
Like you will rebuild government.

1060
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,720
However localized it is to begin with, you will rebuild government and it will.

1061
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:56,320
So I just believe government's a natural monopoly, which is why you have 200 states in the world

1062
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,840
and you don't have any really libertarian places that exist at all.

1063
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:04,320
Because the problem I see, Nic Carta put it to me, he said the problem with libertarianism is that

1064
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:12,880
you, for a libertarian reality to exist, you have to accumulate power to put in place,

1065
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,080
which is antithetical to the ideas of libertarianism.

1066
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,040
And I kind of that kind of resonate.

1067
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:19,840
I thought through that a lot.

1068
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,960
I thought, yeah, but it doesn't mean I'm anti-libertarian.

1069
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,840
I actually, I fundamentally agree with every libertarian,

1070
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,240
more so than I agree with anyone's pro-democracy on their view on how the world should be.

1071
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,080
But that's how it should be.

1072
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:32,880
It's not how it is.

1073
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:40,160
And so I just think it's, they're all well, they're nice theories, good ideas.

1074
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,040
They make me think of, you ever seen Good Will Hunting?

1075
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:48,960
You know the guy in the bar when he's chatting up Mini Driver and there's the guy there with the

1076
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,280
long hair and he throws the apples up at the wind.

1077
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:52,160
It makes me think of that guy.

1078
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:58,160
Like the theoretically great ideas that in practice doesn't work.

1079
00:49:58,160 --> 00:49:59,920
And when he said, well, where does it work?

1080
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:06,480
They go, well, there was an island off the coast of Gambia in 1722, which was, it's like, come on,

1081
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,480
we've got countries here with hundreds of millions of people.

1082
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,200
How is, how, just practically talk me through how this is going to work.

1083
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:13,120
That doesn't mean government's good.

1084
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:14,800
I think government's shit.

1085
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,000
Should we make government smaller?

1086
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:16,320
Yes.

1087
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:17,520
Should we pay less tax?

1088
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:17,680
Yes.

1089
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,040
Should we focus on localism?

1090
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:19,680
Yes.

1091
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:26,880
But let's not burn down the freedoms we fought wars for because, you know, because some guy in

1092
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:31,360
Sweden thinks that it's coercive to have taxation.

1093
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:32,800
You've got to be practical about these things.

1094
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,800
Also, when you have a breakdown, go into any region where there's a breakdown of government,

1095
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:37,680
see what happens first.

1096
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,680
Women get raped and killed, right?

1097
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:45,600
People get stolen from and anarchy exists.

1098
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,800
And so we just have to be realistic about this.

1099
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:52,800
But what I do think, I actually, I thought this for a long time.

1100
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:57,200
I think a strong libertarian political party would be good because the problem we have with the left

1101
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,640
and the right, we have this swing back and forth, but government just gets bigger and bigger.

1102
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:05,840
I think a strong libertarian party could fight the big V small and reduce the size of government.

1103
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:12,800
And so, yes, I'm a status cut because I think government is a natural monopoly.

1104
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,080
I think it would exist anyway.

1105
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:18,000
And I think if you try and burn it down, you'll probably end up replacing it with something worse.

1106
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,440
And so, yes, I'm a status cut.

1107
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:23,360
But I also think it's just not a naive approach.

1108
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,520
It's like a rational approach.

1109
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,000
OK, so that's fair.

1110
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:34,480
One thing I would say, I remember you were talking about your time in Lebanon recently and the fact

1111
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:40,000
that obviously a rule of law and any sort of most government has pretty much broken down there.

1112
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:45,280
And yet you were talking about all of the kind of local, the little mini grids that they were setting

1113
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:49,440
up in Lebanon and in downtown Beirut.

1114
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:55,760
And the fact that people were making it work, they were getting absolutely no help of any kind.

1115
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:56,800
Oh, yeah, you're good.

1116
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:58,320
Yeah, sorry, Karen.

1117
00:51:58,320 --> 00:51:58,800
You're good.

1118
00:51:58,800 --> 00:51:59,360
You're good.

1119
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,000
So people in Lebanon were getting no help of any kind.

1120
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:06,080
Obviously, they have been literally stolen from by the government and through the banks.

1121
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,560
But they were making it work.

1122
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:15,120
And that as an example of, OK, people do have the ability to organize.

1123
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:25,440
Now, I see your point also about, let's say, the naivete of libertarian ideals if we take them

1124
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:29,520
at a completely theoretical value.

1125
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:30,000
Right?

1126
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:34,560
But I also see, at least from my perspective, I don't know what I would call myself.

1127
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:39,120
I dislike labels for my politics because...

1128
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,280
Reluctant status, I call myself.

1129
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,600
OK, well, so reluctant status.

1130
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:47,920
So that's the parentheses outside of the status cock part.

1131
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:54,240
But I think that ultimately government should be, and I think you and I probably, as you said

1132
00:52:54,240 --> 00:52:56,880
earlier, we agree on this, government should be as small as possible.

1133
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:57,360
Yes.

1134
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:03,120
Like the ultimate purpose of the state is to provide for collective defense.

1135
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:03,760
Right?

1136
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:09,600
It's supposed to the purpose of the state and of the law is to provide for collective defense

1137
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,560
against the plunder of your private property.

1138
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:16,800
Like at its core, that is the state, that is the law, that is what it is supposed to be.

1139
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,600
Obviously, it has been perverted from that.

1140
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,480
The law has been perverted, the state has been perverted.

1141
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:31,360
And we can, of course, go deep philosophically into how the broken money has led to that

1142
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:36,800
expansion of the state, which I think it is very much true.

1143
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:41,760
Like the state is left unchecked when the money is left unchecked.

1144
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:51,120
And so I wonder how much we're going to see a shrinkage of governments as they just become

1145
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:52,720
completely insolvent.

1146
00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:55,520
Like the sad thing is that when these states...

1147
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:56,080
I think...

1148
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:56,320
Yeah.

1149
00:53:56,320 --> 00:54:00,720
But the terribly sad thing is that power loves a vacuum, right?

1150
00:54:00,720 --> 00:54:06,480
And we will see, I think a lot of nation states fail in the coming years as they just run out

1151
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,760
of money and you know what, people just...

1152
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:13,680
Like just about every revolution is a monetary revolution.

1153
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:15,760
Like why did the French Revolution happen?

1154
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,440
It wasn't because they just all of a sudden, they magically didn't have food.

1155
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:25,040
No, it's because the French, Asignat, was completely devalued over and over and over again.

1156
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:29,520
And then they bring out the guillotine and then the ones who brought up the guillotine

1157
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:33,040
to start ended up finding themselves in the chopping block at the end anyway.

1158
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:37,760
And so I think that revolutions are usually kicked off because people are pissed off about

1159
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:39,280
their economic conditions.

1160
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:43,680
They're pissed off because their money breaks and they say, I'm not dealing with this anymore.

1161
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:49,920
And so I think there's a natural cleansing that happens of the state.

1162
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,040
But then the thing is what fills that vacuum.

1163
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:53,840
A lot of time...

1164
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:55,600
Lebanon has that cleansing right now.

1165
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,040
And so, and that's really interesting to see.

1166
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:00,480
It was really interesting to see.

1167
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:05,200
You still got soldiers with guns, man in checkpoints and man in borders.

1168
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:09,600
You still got Hezbollah on the Israeli border, protecting that region.

1169
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,000
You still have police and security forces.

1170
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:16,320
But there's no one functionally to deal with interfering.

1171
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:20,400
There's no one functionally able to create the bureaucracy that stops business happen.

1172
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:21,920
And that's the really interesting part.

1173
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:22,880
That's the mini-grizz.

1174
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:23,680
They're doing business.

1175
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:25,440
They're using whatever currency they want.

1176
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,400
And it's super interesting here because I see it where I am.

1177
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,880
I own multiple businesses, whether it's the podcast, the bar, the football club.

1178
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:36,240
There's a building that's just become available in Bedford that I really want to buy.

1179
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:39,600
It's a block of flats with a shopfront underneath.

1180
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:41,920
And the reason I want to buy it is I wanted a shopfront.

1181
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,800
They're trying to turn it into like a Vegas slots thing on Bedford High Street,

1182
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:46,000
which would look shit.

1183
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:47,920
And I want to put a nice cafe in there.

1184
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,040
And so the lease is expensive, but the building's up for sale.

1185
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,760
So I've looked into it and it's a tough buy.

1186
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:54,800
It's a lot of money.

1187
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,320
But it's made even worse by that I've got to pay the stamp duty, which is taxes.

1188
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:02,080
There's all these like bureaucratic things that get in the way of me buying it

1189
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:03,440
that makes it harder to do business.

1190
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:05,040
But same with my bar.

1191
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:07,360
There's so much bureaucracy and so much tax I pay.

1192
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,760
And I've been lucky that I have the excess funds.

1193
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,440
I can do these things, but I think of the excess funds I would have with much lower tax,

1194
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,480
say half tax, say I'm pay 50%, say it's 25%.

1195
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:20,640
I could create double the business I have, employ double the people.

1196
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,920
And I know I'm going to be a better allocator of capital than the government.

1197
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:25,840
It doesn't mean I'm a zero tax person.

1198
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:30,640
What I am is a stay the fuck out of business, stop interfering with my business,

1199
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:34,480
stop telling me all these basic bullshit things I need to do that I don't.

1200
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:38,960
I think I care about look, the things that I regulate the things that if I fuck up,

1201
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:41,920
somebody dies or gets maimed, I'm with you on that.

1202
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:42,720
Regulate that.

1203
00:56:42,720 --> 00:56:43,040
Fine.

1204
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,520
Regulate building, you know, construction.

1205
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:47,760
We've seen what happened in China without building regulations.

1206
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,760
I way way did like a famous art installation based on the off the earthquake.

1207
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:53,520
Look, I get all that bit right.

1208
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:54,880
The state of fuck out business.

1209
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:59,520
Let me just do business, you know, protect our borders, be as small as possible.

1210
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:01,600
Stop interfering and stop stealing from me.

1211
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:02,880
Look, I support all of that.

1212
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:04,640
I'd love to get us to that.

1213
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:08,480
But I would say to people, how are you going to get us there?

1214
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:12,000
So otherwise, like, what's the point in reading all these libertarian books and

1215
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:13,200
listen to these libertarian podcasts?

1216
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:14,880
Like, what are you going to do to change it?

1217
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:19,680
Because I don't believe Bitcoin is going to take us there alone.

1218
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,560
But I do agree with you that these states are going to collapse under the weight of

1219
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:22,960
their debt.

1220
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:26,240
I mean, we've got we've got local councils in the UK going bankrupt.

1221
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:27,840
Birmingham, I think, is going bankrupt.

1222
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:31,200
They they are going to go bankrupt.

1223
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,600
And you might have a currency collapse.

1224
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:38,640
But if we don't change the system the way it works, all that will happen is we will

1225
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:40,080
rebuild the same thing again.

1226
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:42,480
So structurally, we have to rebuild things.

1227
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,800
We have I don't know the answers.

1228
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:51,280
But what I do know is that like a rule of law is important.

1229
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,440
Law and order is important.

1230
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,640
Base rules that we can agree on are important.

1231
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,520
Like, like, don't don't hurt people and don't steal things.

1232
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:01,600
Don't don't hurt people and don't steal their stuff.

1233
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:02,080
Yeah, yeah.

1234
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:03,040
Don't hurt people.

1235
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:04,640
Don't steal their stuff.

1236
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:08,720
But don't build shit that like will kill people.

1237
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,120
And, you know, this base stuff we can do.

1238
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:12,480
Government is too big.

1239
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:13,040
It is weight.

1240
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:14,480
I mean, here in the UK, it's too big.

1241
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:20,560
Like I'm I'm like I said, just a reluctant status that wants it reformed into a better

1242
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:20,800
way.

1243
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:28,320
As a reluctant status to also admittedly wants it smaller because I think that that's

1244
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:29,920
I mean, that's really the thing, right?

1245
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:33,920
It's like the because the government builds a lot of stuff that kills people, too.

1246
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:40,720
I mean, if you even look at the base layer of money itself, it's like, OK, for every,

1247
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:44,960
you know, however many thousand people that are thrown into poverty each year because

1248
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:48,560
the price of living cost of living has gone through the roof because they've inflated

1249
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:49,600
the monetary base.

1250
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:51,680
That literally leads to people dying.

1251
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:57,120
That leads to suicides that lead, you know, like that is that is death at the cause by

1252
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:58,400
the base layer.

1253
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:06,000
But I do think you're going to interrupt you is that the same thing happens everywhere

1254
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:07,840
all around the world.

1255
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:13,840
And so that says to me that this is a this is a problem of the human organism.

1256
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,160
It's the way we make decisions.

1257
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:19,920
It's the greed within us, the way we structurally build things.

1258
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:21,360
Look, Bitcoin can help with that.

1259
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:22,160
Absolutely for sure.

1260
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:24,560
I fundamentally believe that.

1261
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:28,800
But even in the hyper Bitcoinized world, we're still going to require certain things, some

1262
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:30,960
amount of law and order, some amount of structure.

1263
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,400
And I believe that will be centralized.

1264
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:36,560
I don't see a world where it's decentralized.

1265
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:39,520
And I'm OK with that.

1266
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:40,320
And maybe I'm wrong.

1267
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:42,800
Maybe I'm absolutely fucking wrong.

1268
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,840
But I also don't know if we hyper Bitcoinized and get rid of sovereign currencies.

1269
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:51,360
I don't know if Bitcoin just stays as an asset alongside it, like a check and balance

1270
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:52,640
on those things.

1271
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:58,880
I think that honestly, we're not going to see the end of all fiat currencies, certainly

1272
00:59:58,880 --> 00:59:59,920
not in our lifetimes.

1273
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:07,920
My opinion on the matter is that we will likely see in the coming decades, governments start

1274
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:14,640
to say, OK, we have our national currency and it is backed by Bitcoin and we will keep

1275
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:15,920
it at this exchange rate.

1276
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:21,040
You know, like it's you won't be able to do that with something like that's already an

1277
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:25,360
established fiat currency because it's just it's too far in the hole.

1278
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:29,280
Like you're not going to stop the flow at this point.

1279
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:34,720
But I think that with the new there will be new fiat currencies that emerge after we see

1280
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:37,760
collapses and those have a chance.

1281
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:43,120
And I think that if you have a check on the creation of money again at that base layer,

1282
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:45,440
you at least have a chance to keep the state small.

1283
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:50,880
You have a big because then, you know, really, it's like you're you want to pay for something

1284
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:54,720
you got to do with taxes and you're only raising taxes to a certain point before people say,

1285
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:56,720
no, I'm I'm not doing that.

1286
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:59,200
I'm you know, yeah, you're done.

1287
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,200
And I think people are waking up to this, dude.

1288
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:02,240
Oh, yeah.

1289
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:08,480
You know, the funny thing about doing a podcast for six years is your learning in public,

1290
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:14,000
your and if you're transparent, your evolution is there for everyone to see, like everything

1291
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:18,640
you experience, every stupid question you ask, every stupid answer you give is there.

1292
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:21,280
Yeah, people follow follow that.

1293
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:27,200
And for me, you know, when I first discovered Bitcoin, I never even heard of libertarianism.

1294
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:32,400
Like I was a indoctrinated status because that's all I knew.

1295
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:34,320
Like this is how the world worked.

1296
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:36,160
I didn't know any alternative.

1297
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:38,880
And then I discovered Bitcoin and I was like, oh, there's some alternatives.

1298
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:40,080
Well, that doesn't make sense.

1299
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:41,120
Oh, but that's kind of cool.

1300
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:43,120
And then you go through this journey.

1301
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:44,640
I mean, Covid was a great one, right?

1302
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:50,720
So when I think I was pro lockdown, but let's have the caveat, I was pro lockdown for about

1303
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:51,440
two weeks.

1304
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:52,240
OK.

1305
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,760
And in the build up to that, I I'd interviewed a doctor.

1306
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:59,920
One of my friends is a doctor who was working at one of the hospitals in London.

1307
01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:01,360
The interviews out there, anyone can listen to it.

1308
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:09,040
And he talked about the fact that they had some people come in that became a trickle that

1309
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:10,240
became an emergency.

1310
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:14,320
He said they were just very quickly overrun with people who could not breathe and who were

1311
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:14,800
dying.

1312
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:16,880
And he was in tears in this interview.

1313
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:19,600
And so when they announced the lockdown, I was like, yeah, that make total fucking sense.

1314
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,320
Lock everyone down, shut everyone down for a couple of weeks.

1315
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:23,520
Let's fix this shit.

1316
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:24,400
Let's get some.

1317
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,240
Yeah, let's understand what we're dealing with.

1318
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:30,960
And by the way, that had followed what happened in Italy, which was the first country to be

1319
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:31,760
hit really hard.

1320
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:36,240
And then logic comes in and afterwards, you're like, oh, shit, but like you can never stop

1321
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:36,560
this thing.

1322
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:37,440
It's a virus.

1323
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,680
At some point you open up and everyone's going to get it anyway.

1324
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,800
And if you lock people down, you're going to affect their mental health issues.

1325
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:47,440
And so like, you know, I kind of learned my lesson after the fact with that.

1326
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:49,280
And I've apologized.

1327
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:50,640
I said, look, I caught that wrong.

1328
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:53,120
I don't think I started the lockdown.

1329
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,440
I don't think I had any impact on it happened or not.

1330
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,040
But maybe it's a collective thing.

1331
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:00,000
A collective group of people like me who support it is the problem.

1332
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:00,960
Yeah.

1333
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:02,640
And that was an experience I went through.

1334
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:08,720
Same with a little bit different with the vaccinations.

1335
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:10,480
Well, people say they're not even a vaccination.

1336
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:11,920
I didn't get my kids vaccinated.

1337
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:15,520
There's no fucking chance they were having that when I got my first ones because I wanted

1338
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:16,800
to go to Ireland and see my dad.

1339
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:18,080
But I wasn't worried about them.

1340
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:20,800
Like I had all kinds of vaccinations, dude.

1341
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:25,520
You see some of the drugs I've taken in the places I've taken my old life, right?

1342
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:27,200
I was not scared of a vaccine.

1343
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:30,960
And look, I know there's been vaccine injuries and people have died.

1344
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:31,920
And that's fucking awful.

1345
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:33,600
And people were coerced into taking it.

1346
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:34,640
And it was bad.

1347
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:37,680
And, you know, again, I put out some stupid tweets with regards to that.

1348
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:39,280
But it's learning in public.

1349
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:46,320
You know, anything I've ever said publicly, I've honestly felt that's the right opinion

1350
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:46,960
at the time.

1351
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:51,520
I back myself and I always back myself to say, you know, I called that wrong.

1352
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:56,720
And I challenge anyone to go through their life with every major situation that happens

1353
01:03:56,720 --> 01:04:00,240
in the world in their life to call everyone right if they do fair play to you because

1354
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:01,200
it's fucking hard.

1355
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:03,280
Yeah, I mean, it is.

1356
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:10,320
I appreciate that you own what you now see as mistakes because everybody thinks they're

1357
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:11,520
right in the time, right?

1358
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:17,360
I mean, a lot of people who would probably criticize you for your lockdown stance forget

1359
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:21,600
that those lockdowns and the initial trillions of dollars in the US of money printing started

1360
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:22,400
under Trump.

1361
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:28,240
Like, you know, then they, you know, then they're still like you ra ra magga, forgetting

1362
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:32,160
that, you know, he is a part of that same swamp, even though he likes to pretend that

1363
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:33,280
he's not.

1364
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:40,480
And so I do think, you know, I am all for consenting adults doing whatever the fuck

1365
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:43,920
they want with their own body and not being coerced into doing it.

1366
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:47,760
So like, I'm not judging anyone for what they want to do.

1367
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:53,680
The nuances missed on that, because, you know, whilst I was like, yeah, I'm getting

1368
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:54,240
vaccinated.

1369
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:55,040
I've got no fear.

1370
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:56,560
I just don't want to be vaccinated.

1371
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:58,240
I'm getting vaccinated. I've got no fear.

1372
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:00,960
I did it with a Tim four hat on.

1373
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:01,760
I got my vaccine.

1374
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:03,920
Like, I wasn't worried.

1375
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:08,800
And also, there was a period of time I put out this tweet saying it's now a pandemic

1376
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:13,600
of the unvaccinated because at the time I know, but I'd read it.

1377
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:14,240
It's OK.

1378
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:15,040
You're owning it.

1379
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:18,960
You know, I read the research and the research was saying the majority of the people coming

1380
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:22,160
into the hospital that time, sick and dying were unvaccinated.

1381
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:24,000
That's just what the evidence said.

1382
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:30,000
And so, you know, again, in hindsight, probably jumped too in too deep, too quickly.

1383
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:33,600
You know, I've learned that I try not jump in too deep too quickly sometimes now just

1384
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:34,160
because of that.

1385
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:37,920
But these aren't things where I'm like, huh, I'm going to craft this tweet and then

1386
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:39,920
hopefully someone's going to have vaccine they didn't want.

1387
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:40,640
Ha ha ha.

1388
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:42,480
It's I believe it in time, right?

1389
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,480
You know, and then more evidence comes out and you're like, fuck, we've been fucked

1390
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:46,720
over.

1391
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:48,240
We've been lied to is all bullshit.

1392
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:55,040
And that's a hard thing to go through because it's a system that you've spent decades

1393
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:58,320
believing is an honorable correct system.

1394
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:01,840
And now you've you've looked behind the veil is all fucking bullshit.

1395
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:06,160
And the best thing you can do is come out and say, look, I was wrong.

1396
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,680
This is what led me to this point.

1397
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:11,360
This is why I got it wrong.

1398
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:12,240
And I'm sorry.

1399
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:13,600
And I will do better.

1400
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:19,520
I think that that humility is something that is desperately lacking from the discourse

1401
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:20,240
in general.

1402
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:23,440
Like people are so afraid to admit like, hey, I fucked up.

1403
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:24,240
I was wrong.

1404
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:26,960
Yeah, at the time I thought I was right.

1405
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:28,800
Now I know that I'm wrong.

1406
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:32,240
I have more people took that approach.

1407
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:38,080
We would have a much more tolerable public discourse than we do.

1408
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:42,400
But I mean, you see even like in the media, I think there's a people that are like,

1409
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:47,360
I think there's a people I've seen kind of treat you like you're like you're a Jimmy

1410
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:52,320
Fallon type of guy, like literally like a paid Pfizer shill, like sponsored by Peter,

1411
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:55,680
you know, Peter McCuck Mack sponsored by Pfizer, like dude.

1412
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,160
And so that guy, apparently that's a different level.

1413
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:02,800
Apparently I was paid by Pfizer whilst also being a spook for the government.

1414
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:06,000
Wait, wait, you cut out for a moment.

1415
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:07,360
So I need you to repeat that one.

1416
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:13,280
So I've been accused of being a government spook and I've been accused of being a paid

1417
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:14,240
shill from Pfizer.

1418
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:16,240
I always said, look, anyone can go through my bank accounts.

1419
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:17,040
I don't give a fuck.

1420
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:18,080
I've got nothing to hide.

1421
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,480
No, I just thought I thought it was right at the time.

1422
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:21,680
It's just is what it is.

1423
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:23,760
Yeah, it's just these are mistakes.

1424
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:31,200
So to the to the Peter McCormick is a status cock critics.

1425
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:35,040
You just heard him say these are mistakes and he is owning them.

1426
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:38,800
So I will make more of them and there you go.

1427
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:42,560
You know, but you know, I can't imagine that you would be pro lockdown again.

1428
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:45,120
He has a tricky one.

1429
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:46,080
It's a tricky one.

1430
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:48,640
Then let me again, because nuance is super important.

1431
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:54,240
If a bowler, if there was an outbreak of a bowler in my kid's school,

1432
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:55,440
am I going to send my daughter school?

1433
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:55,920
Am I fucked?

1434
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:56,640
She's coming home.

1435
01:07:56,640 --> 01:08:02,480
And if there's an outbreak of a bowler in my village, am I locking down my family?

1436
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:02,720
Fuck.

1437
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:04,400
Yeah, I'm rocking down my family.

1438
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:08,960
And there you have a personal choice about what you're going to do with your family versus a

1439
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:10,080
state level decision.

1440
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:10,880
Yeah.

1441
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:11,760
Well, I'm coming to that.

1442
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:16,080
Listen, look, if there is an outbreak of an Ebola, if you go and look at the outbreaks

1443
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:21,280
they've had of Ebola in the various parts of Africa, they have to have very strict quarantine

1444
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:24,480
and lockdown procedures because this shit moves quick and it moves fast.

1445
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:30,880
So what I'm saying is like, I am anti lockdown, but I can see a scenario where certain things

1446
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:35,520
in certain parts of the world, they make total sense and Ebola outbreak makes sense because

1447
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:41,600
when somebody, when somebody, we've had it when a nurse, I think, came back from Africa

1448
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:46,400
and they realized on the flight she was sick and they took her into hospital, they lock her down.

1449
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:47,280
That is a decision.

1450
01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:50,480
They lock her down because you do not want an outbreak of Ebola in the country, right?

1451
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:52,400
Because what is it?

1452
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:54,480
90% fatality rate or something.

1453
01:08:54,480 --> 01:08:54,880
Yeah.

1454
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:55,920
Bleed through your eyes.

1455
01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:58,640
That's a reality.

1456
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:02,160
And now I'm not doing a Sam Harris here saying if the circumstances are, I'm just saying,

1457
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:02,800
yeah, right.

1458
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:06,720
I can see the circumstances where they might happen and I'm like, yeah, that makes total

1459
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:07,440
fucking sense.

1460
01:09:07,440 --> 01:09:11,920
And yes, in an ideal voluntary world, we all voluntary, but I'm just saying you got to be

1461
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:12,320
realistic.

1462
01:09:12,320 --> 01:09:12,480
No.

1463
01:09:14,480 --> 01:09:17,840
If you have an outbreak of Ebola in London, they're fucking locking that shit down.

1464
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:18,240
Yes.

1465
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:21,920
But the difference between you and what Sam Harris was saying is Sam Harris is using a

1466
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:27,200
hypothetical to justify his prior stance versus you saying, no, my prior stance was wrong.

1467
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:27,760
Yeah.

1468
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:33,360
But in the future, I can see that if something like Ebola was to break loose at a large scale,

1469
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:35,920
then that could perhaps justify that.

1470
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,080
So I think those are two very different things.

1471
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:41,200
Sam Harris is just like, well, imagine if COVID would have been this.

1472
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:42,880
See, I was basically right still.

1473
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:45,840
And it's like, oh, buddy, I think you lost the plot there.

1474
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:46,640
And that's the problem.

1475
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:51,920
A guy like that refusing to admit that he's wrong, being part of that established, the

1476
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:57,520
anointed thought leaders that say, no, well, we did what we had to do.

1477
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:04,400
And I think that's a dangerous path when the anointed can't be wrong.

1478
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:08,880
I think what it is is what's come out is that the people who are making the decisions were

1479
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:14,320
incompetent with the data they had and also actually had false data as well.

1480
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:15,680
Yeah.

1481
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:19,840
And led a lot of us to believe things which weren't particularly true.

1482
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:20,640
So I look at it.

1483
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:24,240
Look, I think it was a tough time for a lot of people.

1484
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:29,200
I don't envy the people in government having to make the decisions they had to make because

1485
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:35,040
I have no doubt, even if, say, the UK government hadn't a lockdown and more people to go to

1486
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,480
hospital, we can't avoid the fact like people died.

1487
01:10:38,480 --> 01:10:39,680
People got sick from this.

1488
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:40,480
Oh, yeah.

1489
01:10:40,480 --> 01:10:44,480
And if more people had died because they had a lockdown, they would have been hammered

1490
01:10:44,480 --> 01:10:45,120
it anyway.

1491
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:47,760
And so governments always tend to take the safest option right.

1492
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:53,040
Even if it's the wrong one, unless they're bombing people in the Middle East.

1493
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:53,840
Right.

1494
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:58,320
That's just always the option for at least Western governments is like, well, what do

1495
01:10:58,320 --> 01:10:58,880
we do here?

1496
01:10:58,880 --> 01:10:59,680
I guess more bombs.

1497
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:02,000
And then they're like, well, give this guy a Nobel Prize.

1498
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:02,640
He deserves it.

1499
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:03,280
Exactly.

1500
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:06,720
I mean, I just I'm glad I'm not the person who actually has to make the decision because

1501
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:08,400
I'm not very good at those.

1502
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:14,720
Well, I hope that neither of us ever have to make that sort of decision.

1503
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:20,560
But yeah, it's a I appreciate your your perspective on this, because again, I think that

1504
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:26,320
it most people have difficulty admitting when they are wrong about even little things.

1505
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:31,040
And when it comes to something big that they've made, as let's say, I think the problem

1506
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:34,720
is that people make their choices too much a part of their identity.

1507
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:40,560
And they say that, you know, now I'm like, I was pro locked out at the beginning and

1508
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:44,960
I was pro mask and now I am a masker for life.

1509
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:49,680
And like there's this weird subsection of Twitter that like I'll occasionally the algo

1510
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:54,160
throw me something and it'll be like these people that are still like testing all the

1511
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:54,800
different masks.

1512
01:11:54,800 --> 01:12:00,640
And like I have my kid in a I don't even know XYZ 425, you know, automatic respirator.

1513
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:02,480
And he says it doesn't even hurt that much.

1514
01:12:02,480 --> 01:12:05,520
It's like some four year old kid with like this giant gas mask on.

1515
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:08,720
And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is this is genuinely broken.

1516
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:11,280
Some people you can be broken them.

1517
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:14,000
Some people also don't know what it's like to have the Internet come after them, right?

1518
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:16,000
It's not a great experience.

1519
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:18,560
So so before even all this shit happened.

1520
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:23,600
So when when Covid first started to happen, I was still traveling with work, right?

1521
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:27,200
And I remember when I hit South America, Bolivia, and you just started to see the

1522
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:29,200
occasional person in airports wearing masks, right?

1523
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:34,800
Got back to the UK and the lockdown was about to get announced and Erdogan in Turkey

1524
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:39,600
suddenly announced that he was trying to get rid of they've got immigration issue in

1525
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:41,600
the country because they have access to Europe.

1526
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:45,680
So he was basically started busing immigrants to the border with Greece.

1527
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:48,400
He wanted people to leave and I was like, shit, I've got to go and film this.

1528
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:50,400
So, you know, we knew lockdown was coming.

1529
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:52,400
It's like if I don't get on the flight today, I might miss it.

1530
01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:56,800
So I did jumped on the plane, went out to a refugee camp, felt like followed

1531
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:57,600
everything that happened.

1532
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:01,200
Then when I came back, I came back to the lockdown, right?

1533
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:05,600
And I went into London because I was like, well, what are all the homeless people going

1534
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:06,000
to do?

1535
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:07,200
Like if they're locking down.

1536
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:10,800
So I went out with a camera and my mic, me and my son, which went outside and

1537
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:11,600
interview people.

1538
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,400
And I put up like a photo and a video up on Twitter.

1539
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:16,000
People go fucking crazy.

1540
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:17,200
I mean, what are you doing?

1541
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:18,400
Why are you not wearing a mask?

1542
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,000
Why are you out in the street?

1543
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:23,200
And I was like, shit, well, maybe I've misjudged this then.

1544
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:25,600
So I got I got kind of hit on both sides.

1545
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:28,800
I got hit for not taking it serious enough and then I got hit for taking it too

1546
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:31,200
seriously. And that's the problem in the world.

1547
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:35,600
It's like what whatever position you take part of the world of the internet is going

1548
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:37,200
to disagree with you and come after you.

1549
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:39,200
And so in the end, you might as well just be honest.

1550
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:40,800
Like this is what I think now.

1551
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:42,800
And if you see think the same in the future, great.

1552
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:46,000
And if you if you don't, then just say, well, I've changed my mind and this is why.

1553
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:50,800
And even if that means you've got people like Dick Whitman coming after you all the

1554
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:53,200
fucking time, I had to block that guy fucking annoying.

1555
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:56,000
But if even if you got those people come after you all the time, you say, well,

1556
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:59,200
look, at least I'm honest. This is who I am.

1557
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:04,400
You know, I think that it's it's also good personal experience.

1558
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:09,600
I've never met Dick, but I like him and he's granted.

1559
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:11,600
I've also never had people come after me.

1560
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:17,200
So, you know, I what I will say is we do need people who are going to always perhaps

1561
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:20,000
be be a little bit antagonistic.

1562
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:24,400
I think that some antagonism is actually very good and healthy because it's a

1563
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:28,000
good and healthy because it makes you check yourself a little bit.

1564
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:31,600
Yeah, hopefully. I mean, the sad reality is that the people who really need to check

1565
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:34,400
themselves rarely do.

1566
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:40,000
Few people who are in power are so introspective as you're being here, which is

1567
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:41,800
just the sad state of the world.

1568
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:44,800
So I will argue for a little bit of antagonism, you know, that being good.

1569
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:52,000
I mean, antagonism is is the same characterization that, you know, the toxic maximalists

1570
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:55,000
get for, you know, saying, listen, your shit coins a scam.

1571
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:57,200
You should you should get out of that.

1572
01:14:57,200 --> 01:15:02,800
And so, you know, there there is a place and also a benefit to antagonism.

1573
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:05,400
Now antagonism just for the sake of antagonism.

1574
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:08,000
Well, that's a different story. That's a different story.

1575
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:12,600
Yeah, look, I don't mind if someone's like comes at me occasionally or even then

1576
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:14,800
jumps into my DMs and go look, I think you got this wrong.

1577
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:18,800
This is bullshit. Like if Dick was like that, but what he is, he's one of many.

1578
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:24,400
There's like the clones. It's just like everything I do say or put out there.

1579
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:28,600
They fucking hate and then make some furious and they just like it's just all attack.

1580
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:32,000
And look, if I feel like I can have a conversation with somebody and get somewhere

1581
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:36,200
with it, even if it's me apologizing, call, but if it's just like I just have to

1582
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:38,200
block it because I'm at my plate is full.

1583
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:38,800
I've got a lot on.

1584
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:40,100
I don't have time to sit there all day.

1585
01:15:40,100 --> 01:15:43,500
They're on Twitter fighting and argue with people and and I can't I don't have

1586
01:15:43,500 --> 01:15:48,100
the time for someone who's only antagonistic because it's like what do you want out of

1587
01:15:48,100 --> 01:15:51,600
this? Well, you know, what do you get out of this and what am I getting out of this?

1588
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:56,400
But if it's if it's a conversation was like look, I disagree with you on this and

1589
01:15:56,400 --> 01:15:57,300
I can go. Yeah, I disagree.

1590
01:15:57,300 --> 01:15:59,300
We can get somewhere if it's productive.

1591
01:15:59,300 --> 01:16:03,200
I'll have that conversation all the time, but I just don't have the time for it, man.

1592
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:07,800
I like I get up at six in the morning and most days I'm working till like 11 o'clock

1593
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:09,500
at night with like some gaps in the middle.

1594
01:16:09,500 --> 01:16:10,500
I'm busy.

1595
01:16:10,500 --> 01:16:11,900
I don't have time for it.

1596
01:16:11,900 --> 01:16:18,000
It will you you you have you have quite a bit on the plane of besides the podcast.

1597
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:22,600
Obviously you have you're now doing multiple of your follow the money series that you're

1598
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:26,600
expanding on you had just a few weeks ago published the one from Argentina.

1599
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:32,100
You're working on one from Lebanon to editing Lebanon hoping that to be our early December

1600
01:16:32,100 --> 01:16:33,100
and then early December.

1601
01:16:33,100 --> 01:16:36,900
I'm in Africa making one and then January I'm going to be in Canada making one.

1602
01:16:36,900 --> 01:16:42,900
Wow, Canada is so interesting. So we've got some interesting locations and now Canada

1603
01:16:42,900 --> 01:16:43,900
has made the list.

1604
01:16:43,900 --> 01:16:46,300
It's a things are weird there right now.

1605
01:16:46,300 --> 01:16:47,900
Yes, I'm a mental at me.

1606
01:16:47,900 --> 01:16:50,100
Someone's I mean like a really aggressive email the other day.

1607
01:16:50,100 --> 01:16:53,500
So everything you're saying about Canada is wrong and you'll sound ignorant.

1608
01:16:53,500 --> 01:16:57,300
I was like, dude, I'm pretty sure I can see exactly what's happening in Canada right now.

1609
01:16:57,300 --> 01:17:03,500
Yeah, like I mean and and you can hear about it from actual Canadians to say, yeah, like

1610
01:17:03,500 --> 01:17:09,100
Canada used to just be kind of like this this quiet upstairs, you know upstairs neighbor

1611
01:17:09,100 --> 01:17:14,400
and now all of a sudden it's just it's it's very strange and and Fidel Castro's son up

1612
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:18,700
there is I know he he's a weird one man.

1613
01:17:18,700 --> 01:17:21,500
Yeah, that's a whole different rabbit hole.

1614
01:17:21,500 --> 01:17:22,700
Yeah, that is a whole rabbit hole.

1615
01:17:22,700 --> 01:17:24,100
We could do an hour and a half on that one.

1616
01:17:24,100 --> 01:17:25,700
But yeah, listen, I'm going to go out there.

1617
01:17:25,700 --> 01:17:27,500
I'm going to I'm going to revisit the trucker story.

1618
01:17:27,500 --> 01:17:32,100
I'm going to go back and nice to people in Ottawa people who protested but people anti-protest.

1619
01:17:32,100 --> 01:17:36,400
I'm just going to say like how do you reflect on this house?

1620
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:39,800
What was the impact on Canada House Canada change since what happens if this happens

1621
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:44,000
in the future because there was certainly an authoritarian bent to the attack on the

1622
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:47,300
right like the right to protest is a fundamental pillar of democracy.

1623
01:17:47,300 --> 01:17:52,700
If you cannot protest you cannot you cannot tell the government that you disagree with

1624
01:17:52,700 --> 01:18:00,380
them and to me that wasn't a really authoritarian attack on democracy and I disliked it a lot.

1625
01:18:00,380 --> 01:18:03,660
So I want to go out there and I want to revisit the story.

1626
01:18:03,660 --> 01:18:05,540
So that's what I'm hoping to do in January.

1627
01:18:05,540 --> 01:18:07,300
So people are going to January so fucking cold.

1628
01:18:07,300 --> 01:18:10,300
I was like because that's when the fucking protest was I want to go there when it was

1629
01:18:10,300 --> 01:18:11,300
cold as it was for them.

1630
01:18:11,300 --> 01:18:14,900
I'll get a big coat but I was one that's where I want to go.

1631
01:18:14,900 --> 01:18:15,900
Nice.

1632
01:18:15,900 --> 01:18:20,340
Well, I look forward to that and I mean you and you've got in addition to all that you

1633
01:18:20,340 --> 01:18:24,700
are also obviously you have real but no I'm not a rail.

1634
01:18:24,700 --> 01:18:26,300
I'm not a it's real.

1635
01:18:26,300 --> 01:18:28,540
Okay, so so everybody takes the rail.

1636
01:18:28,540 --> 01:18:29,980
You know what the question was again.

1637
01:18:29,980 --> 01:18:33,140
You know I still think of it as so I'm going to Madrid.

1638
01:18:33,140 --> 01:18:34,140
Got it.

1639
01:18:34,140 --> 01:18:35,140
Okay.

1640
01:18:35,140 --> 01:18:36,380
So everybody just adopts this the Spanish way.

1641
01:18:36,380 --> 01:18:37,380
Yeah.

1642
01:18:37,380 --> 01:18:38,380
Okay, sure.

1643
01:18:38,380 --> 01:18:39,620
You know I won't ask too many questions about it.

1644
01:18:39,620 --> 01:18:42,420
You know I've actually I've got so we're the only team else.

1645
01:18:42,420 --> 01:18:43,420
My best.

1646
01:18:43,420 --> 01:18:44,420
Yeah.

1647
01:18:44,420 --> 01:18:48,220
Well, we're the only team outside of Spain who are rare or something.

1648
01:18:48,220 --> 01:18:49,220
It's all Spanish teams.

1649
01:18:49,220 --> 01:18:50,580
There's Real Madrid Real Betis.

1650
01:18:50,580 --> 01:18:51,580
Yeah.

1651
01:18:51,580 --> 01:18:52,580
Yeah.

1652
01:18:52,580 --> 01:18:53,580
Okay.

1653
01:18:53,580 --> 01:18:54,580
So well it's it's interesting.

1654
01:18:54,580 --> 01:19:00,300
Now I just saw I think in the past week or in the past two weeks like Bulgaria's oldest

1655
01:19:00,300 --> 01:19:05,780
club and then one in Austria as well have like very publicly is there enough.

1656
01:19:05,780 --> 01:19:08,860
Oh, I didn't know they're amazing.

1657
01:19:08,860 --> 01:19:15,300
I mean this so did did you talk with any of those like the people working with those teams

1658
01:19:15,300 --> 01:19:19,180
and did they reach out to you and say hey we're looking at doing this you know.

1659
01:19:19,180 --> 01:19:20,180
Yeah they all of them did.

1660
01:19:20,180 --> 01:19:24,500
I spoke to them all amazing and obviously I think great idea rising tide.

1661
01:19:24,500 --> 01:19:25,500
It's all boats.

1662
01:19:25,500 --> 01:19:30,460
It was important to me to be the first once I had the idea and I had to be the first but

1663
01:19:30,460 --> 01:19:32,100
like I want I want everyone to do it.

1664
01:19:32,100 --> 01:19:33,100
Of course I do.

1665
01:19:33,100 --> 01:19:38,860
It makes total sense even if it's even if eventually it's anti-competitive for us like

1666
01:19:38,860 --> 01:19:43,180
if a massive team like we're this advantage now because we're probably the only team in

1667
01:19:43,180 --> 01:19:46,300
the UK with a Bitcoin treasury but it's not much we've got like five and a half Bitcoin

1668
01:19:46,300 --> 01:19:47,300
in it right.

1669
01:19:47,300 --> 01:19:48,300
Yeah it's not bad.

1670
01:19:48,300 --> 01:19:52,500
It's not but you know a man you could come in and buy five thousand Bitcoin right.

1671
01:19:52,500 --> 01:20:00,180
So I obviously want to outlast I want to I want to be the first competitively but realistically

1672
01:20:00,180 --> 01:20:04,020
if a big team wants to do I support it because I believe everyone should do it.

1673
01:20:04,020 --> 01:20:05,500
I think it's the right thing to do.

1674
01:20:05,500 --> 01:20:10,740
So yeah I mean all four of those all three of those teams to me is I call it the cheat

1675
01:20:10,740 --> 01:20:11,740
code.

1676
01:20:11,740 --> 01:20:13,940
I mean I constantly say this is a cheat code.

1677
01:20:13,940 --> 01:20:18,340
It gives you access to a bigger audience bigger sponsors new revenue models it protects you

1678
01:20:18,340 --> 01:20:20,980
it protects your income long term.

1679
01:20:20,980 --> 01:20:24,060
And so I think it's a good thing to do.

1680
01:20:24,060 --> 01:20:28,140
I have a slight advantage over them in that I have a podcast which lots of people listen

1681
01:20:28,140 --> 01:20:33,500
to so and we were the first so we have first mover advantage because we're I think unfortunately

1682
01:20:33,500 --> 01:20:35,580
for them we are the Bitcoin team.

1683
01:20:35,580 --> 01:20:39,500
They are also Bitcoin teams and I don't mean that disrespectfully and maybe one of them

1684
01:20:39,500 --> 01:20:43,760
will take the crown because we were the first right.

1685
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:47,980
And then secondly just having the podcast doing all the events you know I can harass

1686
01:20:47,980 --> 01:20:49,940
all the Bitcoiners to follow my team as well.

1687
01:20:49,940 --> 01:20:53,580
I think we've got the conference now cheat code conference it's coming up this spring

1688
01:20:53,580 --> 01:20:54,580
right.

1689
01:20:54,580 --> 01:20:55,580
April.

1690
01:20:55,580 --> 01:20:58,780
I like the approach to that of okay we'll have a conference day and then the next day

1691
01:20:58,780 --> 01:21:01,620
let's not pretend let's just let's go have a good time.

1692
01:21:01,620 --> 01:21:04,300
But you know because that's what it's what ends up happening anyway.

1693
01:21:04,300 --> 01:21:05,300
And a lot of these things.

1694
01:21:05,300 --> 01:21:09,500
Last year Walker last year we had 150 people come in with Jeff Booth James Lavish Lawrence

1695
01:21:09,500 --> 01:21:11,380
LeBard Ben Ark right.

1696
01:21:11,380 --> 01:21:13,540
They all came in on a Friday night.

1697
01:21:13,540 --> 01:21:18,780
Well Friday afternoon we had like six hour live podcast and then we all went down went

1698
01:21:18,780 --> 01:21:21,620
to my bar and got drunk and then we woke up the next day and went to watch the football

1699
01:21:21,620 --> 01:21:22,620
match.

1700
01:21:22,620 --> 01:21:25,940
Everyone had a great time and no one gives a shit about the second day of the conference.

1701
01:21:25,940 --> 01:21:28,860
No one really really cares about watching conference speakers that much.

1702
01:21:28,860 --> 01:21:31,300
It's a it's a big hangout right.

1703
01:21:31,300 --> 01:21:32,300
And so I was like well fuck it.

1704
01:21:32,300 --> 01:21:33,300
Let's do the same again.

1705
01:21:33,300 --> 01:21:36,580
But this time let's try and get five six hundred people into Bedford.

1706
01:21:36,580 --> 01:21:38,740
Let's have the day of talks.

1707
01:21:38,740 --> 01:21:40,220
Let's make it around the cheat code.

1708
01:21:40,220 --> 01:21:43,720
We'll probably do a workshop around what a cheat code is how you use it.

1709
01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:46,260
And then the next day let's all go down to the football football ground.

1710
01:21:46,260 --> 01:21:48,540
Let's have a barbecue drink beer and watch a game of football.

1711
01:21:48,540 --> 01:21:51,220
I mean everyone will have a great time.

1712
01:21:51,220 --> 01:21:53,620
Yeah that's a that's a recipe for success there.

1713
01:21:53,620 --> 01:21:59,220
You know one of the questions that I got on on Noster was you know do you have any like

1714
01:21:59,220 --> 01:22:03,660
what is the advice that you gave to these teams that they were getting wanted to you

1715
01:22:03,660 --> 01:22:06,140
know be also Bitcoin teams.

1716
01:22:06,140 --> 01:22:11,300
Like obviously there's a lot of details but like if there was is there something that

1717
01:22:11,300 --> 01:22:15,220
you've learned where you're like man I wish I would have realized this when we were starting

1718
01:22:15,220 --> 01:22:17,500
out on this journey.

1719
01:22:17,500 --> 01:22:20,140
The main things I've learned are non Bitcoin things.

1720
01:22:20,140 --> 01:22:25,820
Yeah how to handle merchandise how to manage stock how to manage deliveries all things

1721
01:22:25,820 --> 01:22:28,540
like operational things and things I've not done before.

1722
01:22:28,540 --> 01:22:33,660
No I mean look my main advice to them is like if you're if you're doing this because you

1723
01:22:33,660 --> 01:22:40,220
see me doing it and you're like inspired by it that's cool but just be aware I have first

1724
01:22:40,220 --> 01:22:44,820
mover advantage and I'm not saying that to say don't do it I'm just saying you know you

1725
01:22:44,820 --> 01:22:49,220
may not get the same kind of awareness that I did and I also have a large platform where

1726
01:22:49,220 --> 01:22:52,500
every week I can tell people the scores and the results and tweet it out so I've got a

1727
01:22:52,500 --> 01:22:56,300
visit of you might not be able to do exactly what I've done but that's not a reason not

1728
01:22:56,300 --> 01:22:57,580
to do it.

1729
01:22:57,580 --> 01:23:00,980
I said if you're going to do it embrace it and do it properly.

1730
01:23:00,980 --> 01:23:05,220
Okay just embrace it and do it properly and have your meetups before the games allow people

1731
01:23:05,220 --> 01:23:10,740
to pay with Bitcoin but but my main advice is just it's a bit like doing a podcast you

1732
01:23:10,740 --> 01:23:12,100
got to go with it and stick with it.

1733
01:23:12,100 --> 01:23:16,020
That's what it is you got to go with it and stick with it and yet look maybe mine is the

1734
01:23:16,020 --> 01:23:20,220
Bitcoin team but you can be the Austrian Bitcoin team or the Austrian Bitcoin that support

1735
01:23:20,220 --> 01:23:23,340
and love and you'll still get other nutters around the world who just buy your t-shirt

1736
01:23:23,340 --> 01:23:26,580
just because there's a little Bitcoin logo on the side they want it and that's cool for

1737
01:23:26,580 --> 01:23:27,780
you as well.

1738
01:23:27,780 --> 01:23:31,140
Will everyone make a pilgrimage to Austria to watch them like they're going to come to

1739
01:23:31,140 --> 01:23:36,300
Bedford or Israel but I don't know but I wish them all the success and I think it'd be great

1740
01:23:36,300 --> 01:23:39,940
to get the chairman of all those clubs on the stage to get that cheat code and talk

1741
01:23:39,940 --> 01:23:40,940
about it.

1742
01:23:40,940 --> 01:23:43,180
There's a lot of cool stuff we can do with it.

1743
01:23:43,180 --> 01:23:46,860
My advice to them is just like you have to find your own path and it's going to be very

1744
01:23:46,860 --> 01:23:48,940
different from Real Bedford's.

1745
01:23:48,940 --> 01:23:53,500
And I mean the nice thing is that now there are probably even just because things move

1746
01:23:53,500 --> 01:23:59,740
so fast in this space there's so many more tools that are propping up like all the time.

1747
01:23:59,740 --> 01:24:06,180
Who do you guys use for your POS system like at the stadium?

1748
01:24:06,180 --> 01:24:11,860
So we have two we use Zettel as our fiat one and then we use Open Node as our Bitcoin.

1749
01:24:11,860 --> 01:24:15,180
I haven't found someone who's integrated the two very well yet and to be honest there's

1750
01:24:15,180 --> 01:24:19,220
probably things we can do but it works for us at the moment and even changing.

1751
01:24:19,220 --> 01:24:22,540
It's like well if we change what do we change it to but hopefully we're going to get the

1752
01:24:22,540 --> 01:24:23,540
two integrated.

1753
01:24:23,540 --> 01:24:29,420
I want to get a Ticket Tailor who we do online tickets to accept Bitcoin because they don't

1754
01:24:29,420 --> 01:24:30,420
at the moment.

1755
01:24:30,420 --> 01:24:37,180
With our conference we're doing fiat through Ticket Tailor and Bitcoin through Coin Corner.

1756
01:24:37,180 --> 01:24:41,540
Eventually Coin Corner probably not this season but next season might do our Bitcoin payments

1757
01:24:41,540 --> 01:24:42,540
for tickets.

1758
01:24:42,540 --> 01:24:44,340
So like we're trying to get there.

1759
01:24:44,340 --> 01:24:48,460
Some of this stuff though like this is like it takes time there's a trade-off like my

1760
01:24:48,460 --> 01:24:50,580
bar I don't accept Bitcoin in my bar.

1761
01:24:50,580 --> 01:24:53,180
I will do come the conference next year.

1762
01:24:53,180 --> 01:24:57,060
Haven't done it yet because I'll be the only one probably buying beer with Bitcoin in there

1763
01:24:57,060 --> 01:24:58,060
right.

1764
01:24:58,060 --> 01:25:02,180
I've got all the accounting logistics and whatever and I don't have time to waste my

1765
01:25:02,180 --> 01:25:03,460
staff they're busy.

1766
01:25:03,460 --> 01:25:09,060
So these I want the tools to be right not me to fudge tools into it.

1767
01:25:09,060 --> 01:25:14,460
I want a peer system that just says you're paying cash card or Bitcoin and just taps

1768
01:25:14,460 --> 01:25:15,460
does it all.

1769
01:25:15,460 --> 01:25:16,460
So we'll get there.

1770
01:25:16,460 --> 01:25:17,460
We're getting there.

1771
01:25:17,460 --> 01:25:18,460
Yeah.

1772
01:25:18,460 --> 01:25:22,100
Well I mean you know you could of course make your circular economy of one just feeding

1773
01:25:22,100 --> 01:25:23,100
back in.

1774
01:25:23,100 --> 01:25:27,820
Well Peter you know I want to be conscious of your time too because I know it's afternoon

1775
01:25:27,820 --> 01:25:30,260
there for you and I know you're a busy man.

1776
01:25:30,260 --> 01:25:34,460
I have really enjoyed this conversation and I appreciate you taking the time.

1777
01:25:34,460 --> 01:25:39,500
Is there where I mean me listening to your podcast you always ask where do you want to

1778
01:25:39,500 --> 01:25:40,500
send people.

1779
01:25:40,500 --> 01:25:42,540
So I'll ask you where would you like to send people.

1780
01:25:42,540 --> 01:25:45,380
What do you what do you want them to check out from your work.

1781
01:25:45,380 --> 01:25:48,940
Obviously what Bitcoin did your podcast your YouTube channel all of that.

1782
01:25:48,940 --> 01:25:51,460
But is there anywhere else you want people to check out.

1783
01:25:51,460 --> 01:25:52,460
Just the football team.

1784
01:25:52,460 --> 01:25:55,740
I just want people to back the football team because if we win the league again this year

1785
01:25:55,740 --> 01:25:58,500
and next year if we keep going up this thing's going to get big.

1786
01:25:58,500 --> 01:26:00,740
Look we've already seen multiple other football teams now.

1787
01:26:00,740 --> 01:26:02,860
I don't think it's a coincidence.

1788
01:26:02,860 --> 01:26:05,540
And there's like some people they're like oh I don't care about football shut the fuck

1789
01:26:05,540 --> 01:26:06,540
about football.

1790
01:26:06,540 --> 01:26:08,780
It's like did you care about El Salvador before.

1791
01:26:08,780 --> 01:26:11,580
Like you care because they're Bitcoin country don't care.

1792
01:26:11,580 --> 01:26:15,860
It's not that we're a football team we're a Bitcoin project and if this works and continues

1793
01:26:15,860 --> 01:26:19,620
to be successful it's a great flag is a signal for everyone.

1794
01:26:19,620 --> 01:26:21,980
And so back it because it's a Bitcoin project.

1795
01:26:21,980 --> 01:26:25,380
Come and see us come to a game come and have a beer come to the conference come.

1796
01:26:25,380 --> 01:26:27,540
Yeah so check out Rail Bedford Rail Bedford dot com.

1797
01:26:27,540 --> 01:26:30,180
And if you want to come to our conference which will be super it's gonna be so much

1798
01:26:30,180 --> 01:26:33,860
fun next year April in the UK in Bedford.

1799
01:26:33,860 --> 01:26:36,420
Cheat code dot code UK would love to see people there.

1800
01:26:36,420 --> 01:26:39,460
And dude if I know it's gonna be difficult for you but we would love to have you over

1801
01:26:39,460 --> 01:26:44,780
as well and make sure when Kyla wakes you give her a big high five for me and say I

1802
01:26:44,780 --> 01:26:45,940
say hello.

1803
01:26:45,940 --> 01:26:47,260
I certainly will.

1804
01:26:47,260 --> 01:26:48,260
We'll see what we can do.

1805
01:26:48,260 --> 01:26:51,900
You know maybe maybe it'll be time for the little guys first trip across the pond who

1806
01:26:51,900 --> 01:26:52,900
can say.

1807
01:26:52,900 --> 01:26:56,620
And you know for me I don't I don't have a football team that I support so I guess now

1808
01:26:56,620 --> 01:27:00,100
I'm you know I'm officially now I have one you know.

1809
01:27:00,100 --> 01:27:01,100
Yeah.

1810
01:27:01,100 --> 01:27:02,100
It's a that's a nice feeling.

1811
01:27:02,100 --> 01:27:03,900
It's nice to nice to belong there.

1812
01:27:03,900 --> 01:27:06,460
Well Peter thank you so much.

1813
01:27:06,460 --> 01:27:10,700
Really appreciate this and to everybody out there just remember Bitcoin is scarce but

1814
01:27:10,700 --> 01:27:12,340
Bitcoin podcasts are abundant.

1815
01:27:12,340 --> 01:27:14,300
So thank you for listening to this one.

1816
01:27:14,300 --> 01:27:17,180
And of course to Peters as well.

1817
01:27:17,180 --> 01:27:18,520
Peter thank you so much.

1818
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:19,520
Appreciate your time.

1819
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:20,520
And thank you.

1820
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:21,520
I'll talk to you soon.

1821
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:22,520
Appreciate it.

1822
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:32,980
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin talk episode of the Bitcoin podcast.

1823
01:27:32,980 --> 01:27:38,220
If you are a Bitcoin only company interested in sponsoring another fucking Bitcoin podcast

1824
01:27:38,220 --> 01:27:43,820
head to Bitcoin podcast dot net or hit me up on social media on Noster head to primal

1825
01:27:43,820 --> 01:27:50,720
dot net slash Walker and on Twitter search for at Walker America or at TIT coin podcast.

1826
01:27:50,720 --> 01:27:55,860
You can also watch the video version of this show on X or on YouTube by going to YouTube

1827
01:27:55,860 --> 01:28:01,580
dot com slash at Walker America or rumble by searching for at Walker America.

1828
01:28:01,580 --> 01:28:03,660
It coin is scarce.

1829
01:28:03,660 --> 01:28:08,660
There will only ever be 21 million but Bitcoin podcasts are abundant.

1830
01:28:08,660 --> 01:28:14,860
So thank you for spending your scarce time to listen to another fucking Bitcoin podcast.

1831
01:28:14,860 --> 01:28:15,860
Until next time.

1832
01:28:15,860 --> 01:28:27,500
Stay free.