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Some people are like, oh, you just spent like $10 million on a banana, idiot.

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And I'm just like, dude, every dollar you have is at the opportunity cost of buying Bitcoin.

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Did you see what just happened?

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How many trillions were poured into gold not too long ago?

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You know what would happen when that happens to Bitcoin?

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I get gas with Bitcoin and stuff too.

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Like I sell Bitcoin on the spot and get gas.

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This is not the freaking XRP jungle.

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Like where the hell can you use XRP?

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Everybody knows social media doesn't make them feel good anymore.

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There's like such a storm brewing.

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I think Primal and Noster is the ultimate on board to Bitcoin for me.

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I've never felt Bitcoin more alive and I've always wanted that.

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It's magic every time. Every time I zap someone, it's magic.

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Every time I spend it, it doesn't lose its magic to me.

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You guys have a new release coming out here soon.

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Can you hint at anything?

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I'm not asking you to spill the beans, but like...

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I got a little bit of beans.

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We actually have a deadline.

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Usually we don't do that to ourselves because it's stressful.

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The one thing I could spill is...

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I can't really hint at any of it things, but it's going to be huge.

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Is this nature's response to this whole centralization of power and control?

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I think so.

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And that's what fires me up to, you know, go to work and think about this and shitpost

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and educate every day and zap like a crazy person.

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Paul, dude, glad we got a chance to do this.

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we were just talking off camera that, I mean, we, so we met each other. When was, when was

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Nostarica? Was that 2023? February of 2023, March of 2023. So we're coming, actually we're coming

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right up on the three-year anniversary that that's wild. So Primal's three-year anniversary

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is when we're trying to ship 3.0, March 13th, Friday, March 13th, 13th. I love a good Friday,

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the 13th. Um, I, I think it's got good juju. I don't believe in the bad juju of it, you know,

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yeah i'm forgetting what's the actual the origin of that is like i'm forgetting a bunch of uh

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a bunch of people died i think was the was the thing right was it like a bunch of priests got

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i'm trying to remember it's the increase really i've never i never looked into why

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a bunch of priests died that sounds pretty bad yeah you know i remember it wasn't nice um let's

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we'll look it up just because now it's gonna bug me yeah but it went down just like two miles over

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there let's see uh oh i guess it was just howl is unlucky for a while i was the arrest of the

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night's templar on friday october 13 1307 by king philip the fourth of france it's often cited as a

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key albeit possibly coincidental event that solidified the date's negative reputation okay

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what a powerful meme we got it 1307 i know in a minute 2026 you were uh

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okay so three years ago we were at nosta rica that was an incredible vibe uh we carl and i

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weren't even going to go at first and then suzy like uh suzy bdds convinced us to basically and

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got jack to to note at us being like hey come and it was like well shit how do you i'd even say no

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to that next thing i know i've got bit by some sort of strange bug that i'm not even sure of

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ankle swells up to be the size of my face oh no paramedic is uh is like treating me with a z-pack

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and i'm like this is still a great time even though my leg is like just swelling up like a

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storm you guys he had like an ear infection i think too during nostrica yeah yeah yeah he did

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he did man it's it's uh it's wild it feels like just yesterday but it's been three years and now

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it's like okay looking back uh do you think that you would be if you were to like let's say go back

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in time to that nostrica you could have a view into like what you're doing today where noster is

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at today is it is it where you expected is it as it exceeded expectations has it lagged where where

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is where's your head at with that i don't think you would have like i would have believed you if

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you said that i'd be working full-time on a nostril client named primal just because i just happened

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to show up in my backyard to this cool thing that a bunch of bitcoiners were going to show up at

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saying that it was important and it happened to be just like right where i was living it's just

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kind of poetic how it all came to be um but yeah i mean there was so much hype in the beginning

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and do you remember i mean i am a complete normie not anymore really with vibe coding

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in terms of the bitcoin community i am a normie in terms of like tech and everything

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so i still remember me and my buddy matt like putting together our end pubs on like iris.to

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and like trying to figure it out he felt like such a hacky cool guy right like oh my god i got it

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working oh can you see this note no you can't all right why i have no idea but that was all so fun

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and everybody had so much fun with all the energy that was getting poured into Nostra

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and we needed that jackening to happen.

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Now, in terms of user adoption today, it's like,

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kind of not where I thought it would be exactly,

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but also it's just things take time and hype waves happen

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and we're still here, which is important.

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And we have such a stronger foundation now

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and there's another wave coming, I believe.

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Well, that's the interesting thing too.

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It's like, I think a lot of us thought, especially being there at, at, uh, Nostarica was like,

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it felt like Nostarica was about to really, really just blow up like crazy.

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It's maybe a good thing that it didn't just because of like the infrastructure was,

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was not there yet.

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Yeah.

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There were some great clients already.

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There was a ton of cool stuff being done, but like bootstrapping an open source, you

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know, bootstrapping on top of an open source protocol, like that's obviously going to have

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different growing pains than scaling up, you know, a centralized social media platform.

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And so it's like, now I feel like there are so many incredible clients. There's so much stuff

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that's being done over and above just what the, um, what, what just like the, the social media

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use case has been too, like Noster being used as a backbone for so much else. And so I feel like

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it's just, it's, uh, we're at a much better place, more stable place now. So we're ready. We can take

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the millions and millions of people. Now you guys are free to come now. Yeah. Yeah. Hop on over.

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we're ready for you yeah but yeah there's like such a storm brewing uh we actually just had um

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a little low-key nostril dab conference i was the only normie there and but in uh nosara

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in november and it was really cool getting to hang out with all these different members of

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the community we had like pablo rabble um and then the white noise guys all came down and it was just

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it's good to be in the flesh again because so much more happens when everybody's together

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and but just thinking about this perfect storm of stuff coming like

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the whole white noise team i feel like people are needing this decentralized style signal type app

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um like and then divine coming back on nostr that's absolutely enormous and

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olaz is coming back pablo so it's all happening still it's just what's going to be the thing that

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you know pours it over to mass adoption or like even just more adoption or you know steady adoption

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yeah it's the whole the whole vine thing did you use vine back in the day like yeah i do i i did

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too i i loved it like i what i loved about it was the fact that it was so simple and people don't

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remember like if you especially for like people who may be younger they may not know that like

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instagram wasn't always like a you know basically video first platform it's basically what is

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everything basically copied the, the, or, you know, uh, tried to be TikTok on steroids.

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But at first it was like, Instagram was just photos. Vine came out, Vine blew up and Instagram

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adding video was essentially a response by Instagram to Vine's popularity to try and be

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like, Hey, look, we have, we have videos too. But like Vine, I love, I love the fact that you just,

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you were forced to use that very narrow form of content creation where it's like hold and record

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they splice together. You get what, seven seconds. Like it forced you to be really creative and just

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just think outside the box, be authentic. Like I loved it. And so like when I saw rabble

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was bringing that back, I'm like, this is really, really cool. I I've downloaded it.

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I have not played around on it yet. I've been, uh, too, too busy podcasting nonstop, but

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I need to, I need to, because I think it's like, it's awesome. It's just like, that's

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the kind of stuff that people get really, really excited about because I think it's

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like a mix of nostalgia, like a nostalgic, a nostalgic app, but built on top of new rails

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and with greater capabilities.

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That's a pretty cool combination.

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Yeah, and they're not going to know they're using Nostra.

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That's the whole theme now, right?

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BitChat, nobody knows they're using Nostra.

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Divine, they're not going to know they're using Nostra.

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So far, all we've had, seriously, as marketing firepower

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was Jack tweeted about Nostra,

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and we're building another app.

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You guys, I'm telling you, you need another app.

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So we've been marketing Nostra.

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I think we're about to exit that phase with Primal,

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not with this next release but with what's coming in the future um but it's exciting just build a

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useful app use nostrils the back end and next thing you know we have like a thriving economy

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on there and we already do which is so fun too like all this stuff was it's been theorized i

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remember when i first got into crypto and bitcoin and web thinking about web 3 stuff and like oh

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there's going to be these decentralized marketplaces uber's going to be decentralized there's going to

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be blockchains for this for that now we're like wait i don't think you need all these other chains

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and hype tokens and billionaire vc funds pumping bags of this strange social media last people like

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i don't know so i feel like net noster is the answer to so many of those old like the web 3

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um narratives it's such it's such a good point because for a while it was like this assumption

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that with all the ETH stuff and all the different, you know, what was it, Farcaster on ETH or all

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these, all these different like web three based initiatives, they all just basically, they were

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just a front for being able to somehow have a token on top of it. Right. But it's like, I think

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that's, and that probably maybe made Noster have less hype initially. Cause there wasn't a way to

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just like, you know, somehow scam people or get rich quick on it or whatever else. It was like,

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no, no, no. Like it's just a protocol for communication. We happen to be using another

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protocol for you know money on top of it bitcoin but like you could put anything you want on there

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you could use something else it's just no no one else has a desire to do that because you know it's

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uh well ultimately they were just trying to scam people in the first place no airdrop bro when

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airdrop yeah no airdrop oh my god what what's what's even the point then i don't know i think

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the incentives because of that the lack of any sort of tokenization or you know anything related

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that on those for the incentives are just better like the developers that are building here too

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are more i would say value aligned with like just generally uh that open source ethos and

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trying to just build valuable useful tools not trying to build a tool as a pretense for extracting

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value from people but instead to try and give value and honestly like on those starts like

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the vibes are just better like i remember when blue sky was coming out too and it was like oh

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man like blue sky like you know jack obviously had funded some of that too but boy talk about

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bad vibes man i i went on blue sky for a while and then i was like i this i don't think this is

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a place for me i don't feel very welcome here it doesn't feel like a safe space i mean yeah for me

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neither but to each their own right i mean they'll say the same thing about nostril probably

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it's true it's true well i want to ask you too paul because you you've done a pretty killer job

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on the content creation side,

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not just like on Noster specifically,

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but on centralized platforms.

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We were talking about Instagram before this,

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putting out good aesthetic content,

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but also driving people toward Noster.

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And I think Primal broadly has done a good job of that.

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Is that, I mean, how has the strategy

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been working overall so far?

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Because it seems like the strategy

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from like the outside looking in,

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in terms of what Primal's been doing,

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is like, okay, get people over to Noster period,

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a rising tide lifts all boats if they want to use primal great obviously you guys would want them to

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use that but i know from talking to milion you know he's basically told me multiple times like

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look the biggest thing is they just start using noster they can use any client they want on there

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we hope they use primal but like that's the beauty of noster how have you seen the response

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on centralized platforms like instagram like do you are you getting a lot of interest do you still

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have a lot of people who are just like think it's some i mean do they even know it's a bitcoin or

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thing? Have they heard of it? Is it getting into onto people's radar or are we still like

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crazy early just even from an awareness standpoint? Yeah. Unfortunately we're still like crazy early.

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Um, yeah, I've planted a bunch of seeds on Instagram and thanks for all the compliments.

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Um, but I haven't done a great job of like really converting. And then my closer friends who are in

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kind of the creative space and the health space, they all get it. It's just what's going to actually

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make them spend any time and stay that's the question i haven't quite figured out and i don't

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have a great answer for them right now in the current state of primal and even it's just a

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social media use case of nostr it's because like yeah there's it's forward thinking um it's sovereign

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which everybody's uh you know concerned with the sovereignty and the not being programmed by zuck

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and all that you know censorship stuff they'll get that but like regular creators need to be on

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those other platforms because that's for their audiences and that's how people are getting their

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word out right like so they got to be over there and even just like mom and dad and um you know

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just like people that aren't creating consumers their friends are on there so they want to be

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there too so like it's definitely a tricky thing trying to just get pure normies over there so we

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need to create like maybe another reason not just for social media for people to come over and that

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could be the bitcoin wallet stuff like it's an easy to use bitcoin wallet um and that's going to

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change soon too um and for a future release i'm really excited about that too it's just going to

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be a useful app for anybody like i could say my mom my mom and my dad will be able to get used from

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it whereas now it's just like we have a social network without too many broad-ranging perspectives

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or you know communities on there yet so i in terms of uh like the let's say one of the big

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criticisms of Noster just generally is like, it's just this echo chamber. It's just a bunch of,

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you know, Bitcoiners talking about Bitcoin or talking about Noster, which is like fair,

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but also I have seen and tried to follow is like, whenever I see somebody that's like,

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I saw some guy recently that was like, um, just playing violin every day and posting videos of

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himself playing violin. I was like, I'll, I'll zap that. I'll give this guy a follow. That's

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awesome. Like, are there other, uh, what, what accounts do you have that you follow that are

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kind of outside of, let's say, just the like, I'm here for Bitcoin, or I'm here because I'm

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just super obsessed with open source and Noster. Like, what do you, what have you seen kind of on

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the general creative side that you thought was like, uh, just, just a cool account that you'd

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recommend people check out? Um, that's what you can know. My brain is so melted right now. Yeah.

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um yeah so many of my friends are just into the whole bitcoin thing it's like

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it's mostly an echo chamber but

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like i don't even have a good answer for you i know okay we'll come back to we'll come back to

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yeah maybe maybe put a different way like but you brought up the point about okay it's really hard

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to get people to come over and stay when their audience like they're sometimes very big audience

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is on Instagram or TikTok or X, whatever.

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Do you think, is that just like,

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is that just something that is going

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to just continue to take time?

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Or is that something where it's like,

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hey, we're missing this from the experience on Nostra.

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We need this other type of social app on Nostra.

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We need something else on Nostra.

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Or is it just like, look,

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there's a bunch of audience capture

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on these other platforms.

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You can't, and because they're centralized,

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you can't take that audience with you in any easy way. And so it's just like, listen, it's just a

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function of like, hey, we just need more time or like, or do you think it's no, we there's stuff we

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need to build still that these creators would really want and that they would come here specifically

224
00:16:24,780 --> 00:16:30,580
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Yeah. Well, it's kind of all of the above.

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So we did just see another app. Just go Buku Varo.

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Went number one in the app store. It's called like Up something.

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do you remember did you see that it was uh upscrolled it was called upscrolled it went

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number one in social for like a day or two i don't know what happened to it now but that's just the

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proof that it's possible so but they weren't also uh marketing any protocol it was like come to the

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app so where we've felt before is like marketing nostre so hard like okay well then where do i go

258
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nostre.com you instantly get confused and scared see ya so um but yeah that upscrolled went number

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one and it was for a specific reason and it was for a community which happened to be it was something

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to do with palestine israel i don't know what's going on with that but just like a certain group

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of people were attracted to it and boom super viral overnight um so it's all that that's possible

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even with people not being able to bring their audiences and whatnot like it's possible for

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primal to unlock something it might not even be something we plant it might just be people get

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turned on to it for a second and then just goes but we want to provide all like you know the

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infrastructure that people are used to.

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One other thing and I just vibe coded this the other day and I showed the team cause I a dev now you guys It my dream to be a dev I guess I always wanted to have vertical scroll and primal for when you get on a video with us on the trending feed or on somebody media page where you can just consume all their content like this because that how we consume information

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We're talking about divine.

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That physically chained how we consume information, the vertical scroll, whether you like it or not.

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And a lot of creators are optimizing for that.

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Like I do a lot on Instagram.

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So I put a vertical scroll into Primal with like super clean Instagram UX with a fricking

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zap button that when you go up and down, it like vibrates your finger and it goes like

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more, more, more, more, more.

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And then you go down, it goes down and then you could zero it out.

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But oh my God, I've never felt Bitcoin more alive.

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And I've always wanted that.

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Because there's been a couple of TikTok exoduses during Primal.

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I'm like, oh, I'm like, we kind of wish we had vertical scroll, but that's not really

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what we're building.

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We're never going to want to build to compete with like Instagram and TikTok with their algorithms or anything.

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We are going to add algorithms and stuff, but that's probably, we don't want to like go try to play that battle.

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That's not something we want to do.

283
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Well, because that's the thing.

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It's like, you're not going to be able to, and this isn't like a, it's not a dig on Primal or on any Nostra client.

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And it's just the reality, like, look, trying to compete with the TikToks and the Instagrams, like at their own game, is going to be next to impossible, right?

286
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Like, you have to change the game a little bit.

287
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And like, the Bitcoin side of things, to me, like, it is shocking to me that that hasn't been more of a selling point for more creators.

288
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We're so crazy.

289
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Like, we literally tip people with Bitcoin.

290
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Are you kidding me?

291
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What I think is going on is we're literally building the foundation for a much better creator economy.

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but i could be crazy or it might just be like this small segment of us that come over and we

293
00:22:37,618 --> 00:22:42,078
still can thrive we don't need billions of users to extract from to be profitable no we just need

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some loyal customers to be profitable and you know make money and make a good product for

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for our users without extracting from i wonder too like obviously things like patreon got incredibly

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popular in terms of just having a direct way to support you know creators journalists whatever

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might be support anyone you want you know as a patron basically noster seems to be a really even

298
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easier way to do that and on a let's say a much more distributed basis obviously i'm surprised

299
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that we haven't seen that sort of use case take off a little bit more like especially just depending

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on where you are in the world what capital controls are there uh what access you have to even something

301
00:23:25,858 --> 00:23:30,898
like patreon or to the banking system generally it's like that's the beauty of bitcoin is that

302
00:23:30,898 --> 00:23:35,898
and on no stir you basically have a social wallet where you can connect with any anyone you want

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00:23:35,898 --> 00:23:41,278
creator or memer or just random you know your uncle bob and you can zap them without needing

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to worry about what country they're in or what currency they use or anything else because you're

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all just using the same same currency you're using bitcoin the same money and so i'm curious if we're

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going to see that side just from like a pure maybe people aren't even using it for the social side

307
00:23:54,278 --> 00:23:58,218
as much maybe they're just using it like look this is where you can go if you want to support

308
00:23:58,218 --> 00:24:03,738
my work just go zap me on no stir like maybe that ends up being like a really easy way for people to

309
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get around some of the the problems with the legacy system but again it's like you're right

310
00:24:08,058 --> 00:24:13,598
we're crazy like we're all crazy here we're crazy are just we're crazy early you know yeah crazy

311
00:24:13,598 --> 00:24:18,918
spending your bitcoin are you kidding me nobody spends bitcoin tipping bitcoin no bitcoin's slow

312
00:24:18,918 --> 00:24:23,998
oh freaking it's magic every time every time i zap someone it's magic every time i spend it

313
00:24:23,998 --> 00:24:33,858
it doesn't lose its magic to me um but yeah crazy early also like it is just this i i really i'm not

314
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backing down and i don't think this will ever like primal and oster is the ultimate onboard

315
00:24:40,018 --> 00:24:45,338
to bitcoin for me still i don't think that hasn't changed since i've like started zapping and since

316
00:24:45,338 --> 00:24:50,798
I started working with Primal. It is this fundamentally new experience, first experience,

317
00:24:50,998 --> 00:24:56,678
first touch for people with Bitcoin. And all the people I've just onboarded and showed them,

318
00:24:56,758 --> 00:25:00,218
they're like, what? And yeah, maybe it's a little gimmicky. It's not like people are going to really

319
00:25:00,218 --> 00:25:07,118
earn a living yet doing that, but the fact that it's possible. And I was on Twitter this morning

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and they're talking about X money. Elon was reposting and posting some screenshots about

321
00:25:11,118 --> 00:25:17,198
x money did you see a little bit of that yeah i just saw that pop up and i'm like well here it is

322
00:25:17,198 --> 00:25:25,418
we chat of the west elon like he's gonna he owns all the infrastructure i mean sure he's trying to

323
00:25:25,418 --> 00:25:30,818
make it and then encrypt it underneath whatever but just the fact that he he'll be able to turn

324
00:25:30,818 --> 00:25:36,138
on and off accounts and you'll have to put your real id to it like just doesn't even sound like

325
00:25:36,138 --> 00:25:39,438
I mean, better it's Elon than someone else maybe,

326
00:25:39,598 --> 00:25:42,858
but he's just a man and they're just people.

327
00:25:43,238 --> 00:25:45,598
And it's so cool you can do this without permission.

328
00:25:45,758 --> 00:25:47,098
And this might be one of Nostra's

329
00:25:47,098 --> 00:25:49,038
and Bitcoin's biggest marketing moments as well.

330
00:25:49,498 --> 00:25:50,738
Like, hey, here, come do this.

331
00:25:50,978 --> 00:25:52,438
Attach any wallet you want.

332
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Be anywhere in the world.

333
00:25:54,878 --> 00:25:56,098
Everyone has access to it.

334
00:25:57,298 --> 00:25:57,698
I don't know.

335
00:25:58,438 --> 00:25:59,758
It's beautiful.

336
00:26:01,558 --> 00:26:02,558
It really is.

337
00:26:02,558 --> 00:26:05,058
And yeah, in terms of the X money thing,

338
00:26:05,058 --> 00:26:13,238
again so much of this that part of like not just okay that like elon okay is a better like at least

339
00:26:13,238 --> 00:26:17,798
a i think a better steward of these things than most other people would be at this point like i

340
00:26:17,798 --> 00:26:22,818
think he does truly care about free speech i think he cares about freedom of expression i i think that

341
00:26:22,818 --> 00:26:28,438
he's also though like he's a he's a person and you know you never know what sort of pressures may be

342
00:26:28,438 --> 00:26:33,318
exerted on him and that is the cool thing about noster is that like there's so much optionality

343
00:26:33,318 --> 00:26:35,198
there is no single throat to choke, right?

344
00:26:35,198 --> 00:26:36,618
There's a bunch of different throats

345
00:26:36,618 --> 00:26:38,218
and you're not going to be able to choke them all, hopefully.

346
00:26:38,818 --> 00:26:42,418
But the tying of the real world, you know,

347
00:26:42,458 --> 00:26:44,578
physical identity to our digital identities,

348
00:26:44,658 --> 00:26:46,298
whether that be for the convenience of payments

349
00:26:46,298 --> 00:26:48,698
through X money, or whether that be through governments

350
00:26:48,698 --> 00:26:52,418
like in Australia or the UK or wherever that are saying,

351
00:26:52,498 --> 00:26:54,938
oh, we need to ID you so you can use social media

352
00:26:54,938 --> 00:26:57,478
to protect the children, you know, just protect the children.

353
00:26:57,998 --> 00:27:03,078
Like this all just gets toward a social credit system, basically.

354
00:27:03,318 --> 00:27:09,518
where anything you do online or offline is ultimately tied back to that digital identity,

355
00:27:09,518 --> 00:27:14,178
which they're tracking, tracing, connecting with your bank accounts, and then able to shut off if

356
00:27:14,178 --> 00:27:18,578
you step out of line. And it's like, people just seem to be sort of sleepwalking to that. But I

357
00:27:18,578 --> 00:27:24,538
guess it's the old thing of like, people will trade freedom for convenience, the majority of

358
00:27:24,538 --> 00:27:32,678
the time, you know what I mean? Yeah, convenience is often the enemy. Yeah, I know, I like, what are

359
00:27:32,678 --> 00:27:37,198
we building here is that really what we're building against i mean i think so there's still

360
00:27:37,198 --> 00:27:46,298
other things to be solved out like it's like solved um but is this nature's response to this

361
00:27:46,298 --> 00:27:52,358
whole centralization of power and control i think so and that's what fires me up to you know go to

362
00:27:52,358 --> 00:27:58,998
work and think about this and shitpost and educate every day and zap like a crazy person

363
00:27:58,998 --> 00:28:07,278
it's this amazing beautiful alternative that we have can i ask you too on the uh on the promise

364
00:28:07,278 --> 00:28:11,438
that you said you guys have a new release coming out here soon what can you hint at anything

365
00:28:11,438 --> 00:28:15,498
without you know divulging i'm not asking you to spill the beans but like i got a little bit of

366
00:28:15,498 --> 00:28:19,418
beans you got if you got something you can talk about like i'd love to know kind of what's coming

367
00:28:19,418 --> 00:28:24,058
in the pipe for this you said it was uh march march 13th right friday march 13th or 16th so

368
00:28:24,058 --> 00:28:27,058
we actually have a deadline we usually don't do that to ourselves because it's stressful

369
00:28:27,058 --> 00:28:34,458
but the one thing i could spill is we're doing maxi madness on primal so on buster so which is

370
00:28:34,458 --> 00:28:39,438
fun so that means polls and there's some fun stuff with the polls i haven't played with it yet and i'm

371
00:28:39,438 --> 00:28:43,718
really kinesthetic learner i gotta like go play and see it and everything but um yeah so there's

372
00:28:43,718 --> 00:28:48,298
gonna be polls and you're gonna be able to attach like zaps to it too so it'll be extra interesting

373
00:28:48,298 --> 00:28:54,318
oh that's super so uh as in like the voting will not just be like the x style voting where it's

374
00:28:54,318 --> 00:28:59,238
like you're just voting it's like how many sats like i could send one sat to the this answer or i

375
00:28:59,238 --> 00:29:03,638
can send you know a thousand sats is that that's an element to it so you'll be able to it's like

376
00:29:03,638 --> 00:29:08,198
it's kind of clear thing like this is awesome you just permissionlessly do this let's go dude

377
00:29:08,198 --> 00:29:13,558
that's sick i'm super stoked for that because that's been one thing i've i've been missing from

378
00:29:13,558 --> 00:29:17,358
noster is the ability to put out polls like you can do a lot of just like okay yeah just ask people

379
00:29:17,358 --> 00:29:20,458
for feedback in the comments but like there's something nice about having a poll being able

380
00:29:20,458 --> 00:29:25,918
to get the answer and then i mean if you're also getting sats in response to that poll like that's

381
00:29:25,918 --> 00:29:29,558
a whole new thing like you know you make a really controversial poll that people want to vote on

382
00:29:29,558 --> 00:29:34,638
with their sats like you're bringing in a lot of satoshis yeah maybe i don't know i know so i mean

383
00:29:34,638 --> 00:29:38,878
it's it's live on other clients but i think when primal does it'll really you know kind of

384
00:29:39,458 --> 00:29:46,358
make it a real thing on nostril so it's gonna be a fun experiment can't really hint to any other

385
00:29:46,358 --> 00:29:52,478
does that's okay it's okay but it's gonna be huge i'm i'm stoked for it well let me let me ask you

386
00:29:52,478 --> 00:29:57,098
this uh you mentioned you know one of the things you'd like to see is kind of the vertical uh you

387
00:29:57,098 --> 00:30:01,738
know vertical scroll for videos and whatnot and that's the you know you vibe coded something out

388
00:30:01,738 --> 00:30:06,038
already maybe this will actually get merged in there but in terms of like i think you said something

389
00:30:06,038 --> 00:30:10,638
about okay we're not that's not the direction that like we're trying to go with primal what is kind of

390
00:30:10,638 --> 00:30:14,798
the the vision where you guys see yourselves because i know there's like a lot of stuff being

391
00:30:14,798 --> 00:30:19,398
built out to like the primal kind of creator studio and all these other things what's kind

392
00:30:19,398 --> 00:30:23,998
of the long-term goal in terms of how you guys are positioning yours excuse me positioning yourself

393
00:30:23,998 --> 00:30:32,038
in the nose traverse excuse me okay without giving anything away um yeah we built studio it's all this

394
00:30:32,038 --> 00:30:37,678
kind of infrastructure for when we get a bunch of creators over here and the long-term vision

395
00:30:37,678 --> 00:30:42,838
will not change we want to we want nostril to be the backbone of the global town square

396
00:30:42,838 --> 00:30:48,498
and we want to do that and build a social experience in a way that is actually saving

397
00:30:48,498 --> 00:30:52,158
you time and we're going to monetize your time saved instead of monetizing your time spent

398
00:30:52,158 --> 00:30:59,798
so how we're going to pull that off can't tell you yet but i but but we do have a plan and it

399
00:30:59,798 --> 00:31:09,418
yeah i'll leave it at that okay okay yeah it's gonna be fine okay so i'm i'm always now i'm

400
00:31:09,418 --> 00:31:15,078
even more intrigued. I wasn't treated already. Are there, uh, are there features in other Noster

401
00:31:15,078 --> 00:31:19,118
clients that you guys look at and you're like, oh damn, that's really cool. Like we should roll that

402
00:31:19,118 --> 00:31:22,918
in. Like, do you guys, because this is like a, you know, people are building out in the open.

403
00:31:23,078 --> 00:31:26,698
You can see what other folks are building. Most of the time it's open source. How much does that

404
00:31:26,698 --> 00:31:31,278
factor into what you guys are doing? Or do you kind of have your roadmap? You stick to that.

405
00:31:31,278 --> 00:31:34,978
And it's like, you're not, uh, not as concerned with what other people are building. Okay. They've

406
00:31:34,978 --> 00:31:38,218
got something cool. Yeah. Great. Let them have that. People can use it over there if they want

407
00:31:38,218 --> 00:31:42,858
to how much does that impact the way you guys think about like what direction you're taking

408
00:31:42,858 --> 00:31:48,958
this do you know what i'm saying yeah so the way i see it right now except the vertical scroll thing

409
00:31:48,958 --> 00:31:54,898
unless somebody comes out with the killer feature which i don't know i don't know if we'll ever be

410
00:31:54,898 --> 00:32:00,138
able to kind of catch up fully to all the legacy platforms i think we're about complete and we

411
00:32:00,138 --> 00:32:04,338
don't really fomo other ones too much like you know sometimes people will come out with the voice

412
00:32:04,338 --> 00:32:10,278
voice no should we go add that guys i don't know stay focused so that's not something we're really

413
00:32:10,278 --> 00:32:17,058
too worried about we at one point wanted to you know be you were thinking about videos and bigger

414
00:32:17,058 --> 00:32:21,218
videos and files and as you probably know it's not the best experience um long form video and

415
00:32:21,218 --> 00:32:28,918
stuff on nostr that's a direction we're going away from right now um so then maybe one day we'll want

416
00:32:28,918 --> 00:32:36,078
add more log for videos and have better ux around that um yeah but we've got the reads we got the

417
00:32:36,078 --> 00:32:39,798
anybody can write an article by the way a lot of people think that it's only studio you just go to

418
00:32:39,798 --> 00:32:46,418
primal.net on the web and you can rip yourself an article i don't see more reads on there um yeah

419
00:32:46,418 --> 00:32:54,778
nice let me ask you switching gears a little bit uh you are a new dad now uh six months into it i'm

420
00:32:54,778 --> 00:33:00,698
not too far ahead i'm only a couple years into it how is dad life treating you man dad life

421
00:33:00,698 --> 00:33:08,738
it's the best man i crave uh baby smiles so six months is awesome too because like she's she's

422
00:33:08,738 --> 00:33:14,678
she's here she's kind of landed but she's not running all over the place right now so i hear

423
00:33:14,678 --> 00:33:19,538
this is like the golden window is that is that true yeah it's like the time where you if you set

424
00:33:19,538 --> 00:33:23,278
them down somewhere they just kind of like stay there and then you get to the point where very

425
00:33:23,278 --> 00:33:27,398
quickly it's like you you can't just set them down somewhere because they are they're gone like

426
00:33:27,398 --> 00:33:32,498
they're they're well crawling around then running around and like then they just don't stop moving

427
00:33:32,498 --> 00:33:36,578
and like that's awesome too because you can do a lot of different things but you just have to pay

428
00:33:36,578 --> 00:33:40,878
a lot more attention too because it's just like they are they get mobile very fast and then they

429
00:33:40,878 --> 00:33:48,038
do not stop so yeah enjoy the like everybody always says like you know oh like you know the

430
00:33:48,038 --> 00:33:52,958
next part the next part like it gets better and better like and it does but it's also like i don't

431
00:33:52,958 --> 00:33:57,478
know each part is so it's so amazing it's like you got to savor that experience when you're in it

432
00:33:57,478 --> 00:34:01,978
because man it it's true what they say like you blink and it's like they're a year old and you

433
00:34:01,978 --> 00:34:05,978
blink and they're two years old i'm sure i'm gonna blink and he's gonna be you know 18 yeah it's

434
00:34:05,978 --> 00:34:12,978
ridiculous like it's freaking boomers are all right they were right all the cliches were right

435
00:34:12,978 --> 00:34:19,178
they were yeah they were all telling the truth yeah it's annoying like for real is six months

436
00:34:19,178 --> 00:34:24,218
already are you kidding me but i think my favorite part of all that is just how much it brings a

437
00:34:24,218 --> 00:34:29,118
family together this is first grandchild grandkid for both sides of our parents we both have both of

438
00:34:29,118 --> 00:34:33,658
our parents still so it's a major blessing for both of them then flying down to costa rica i was

439
00:34:33,658 --> 00:34:38,198
just like mom i gotta go to austin can you come to costa rica two hours later i booked a flight

440
00:34:38,198 --> 00:34:44,558
i come you know they're just craving uh the baby smiles as well and it's awesome to see that

441
00:34:44,558 --> 00:34:48,918
and just watching my sisters with them, with Maya.

442
00:34:49,838 --> 00:34:52,998
The family side of it is like, it is amazing.

443
00:34:53,218 --> 00:34:55,778
And same for us, it's the first grandkid of the family.

444
00:34:55,998 --> 00:34:56,718
So it's huge.

445
00:34:56,838 --> 00:34:59,338
I was just curious, how long have you guys been in Costa Rica?

446
00:35:00,158 --> 00:35:01,258
We've been down here since,

447
00:35:01,318 --> 00:35:03,038
I've been down here since December of 2021.

448
00:35:03,638 --> 00:35:04,078
Okay.

449
00:35:04,298 --> 00:35:07,298
And then I think it was about June of 2022,

450
00:35:08,078 --> 00:35:12,538
I magically moved to what was becoming the Bitcoin jungle.

451
00:35:12,538 --> 00:35:21,898
um and it's like okay so now i get to live out my thesis of uh living off of bitcoin

452
00:35:21,898 --> 00:35:27,838
and seeing this place evolve in the last three four years has been insane

453
00:35:27,838 --> 00:35:35,238
did you know it were you a bitcoiner already when you moved into a bitcoin jungle or like

454
00:35:35,238 --> 00:35:41,058
was that part of it or did you become a bitcoiner as as part of that move so i i was you know class

455
00:35:41,058 --> 00:35:49,238
of 2017, but I didn't meet anybody until November of 2021, I believe was the first conference in El

456
00:35:49,238 --> 00:35:54,718
Salvador. And I got to meet a couple of guys from Cash App, including Miles in El Salvador.

457
00:35:55,578 --> 00:36:01,698
And then I was like, why have I never met a Bitcoiner in my life? What have I been,

458
00:36:01,998 --> 00:36:07,178
because I've been on Twitter, on the Reddit, you know, just consuming 40 hours per week back then

459
00:36:07,178 --> 00:36:12,978
too like you know just consuming and consuming and i was too broke to even go to the conference

460
00:36:12,978 --> 00:36:21,018
i was just kind of like driving from california to central america um and i got to meet these guys

461
00:36:21,018 --> 00:36:25,598
and also met john vallas and it like kind of filled this intellectual hole this i don't know

462
00:36:25,598 --> 00:36:31,418
maybe spiritual hole in a way um that yeah getting to meet these people in real life

463
00:36:31,418 --> 00:36:38,618
was amazing so I kind of started there and then I had to purge everything by the time I got to

464
00:36:38,618 --> 00:36:44,998
Costa Rica because I was like jobless and basically camping I had a car and I had some shit coins and

465
00:36:44,998 --> 00:36:51,598
I purged them completely and it's like okay now all I have is Bitcoin and now it's more convenient

466
00:36:51,598 --> 00:36:57,918
for me to spend Bitcoin and then I ended up here in Bitcoin jungle where you know I got some work

467
00:36:57,918 --> 00:37:02,898
to do and stuff anyways but yeah now i get to like fully live out the thesis of living on a

468
00:37:02,898 --> 00:37:09,798
bitcoin standard and i luckily i get paid in bitcoin and it's um i mean it's not always easy

469
00:37:09,798 --> 00:37:16,458
but um it's cool it's what we all want it's what we're all going to and actually getting to play

470
00:37:16,458 --> 00:37:22,898
with it and play with our bitcoins here every day feels right it's one of the other reasons i love

471
00:37:22,898 --> 00:37:27,258
like your videos about spending bitcoin because you hear all the time from people

472
00:37:27,258 --> 00:37:33,478
like not from bitcoiners but from people who like to flood bitcoin like nobody uses bitcoin

473
00:37:33,478 --> 00:37:37,758
as money bitcoin's too you know slow like they ignore the presence of the lightning network they

474
00:37:37,758 --> 00:37:42,738
like to just you know dig up these old tropes about bitcoin but i love your videos because

475
00:37:42,738 --> 00:37:46,538
it's just like hey you know at the farmer's market just send send this lady some sats got

476
00:37:46,538 --> 00:37:51,658
some you know fresh fruit got some whole milk whatever it is like those videos i think are so

477
00:37:51,658 --> 00:37:57,058
important for people to see like look all it takes is somebody willing to accept it and somebody

478
00:37:57,058 --> 00:38:01,258
willing to spend it and it happens like that and like these and you could just do that around

479
00:38:01,258 --> 00:38:06,678
yeah like it's but it's like it's magic and like i'm like shout out to you for making these videos

480
00:38:06,678 --> 00:38:11,658
because again people need to see that kind of stuff because it you know and it helps like you've

481
00:38:11,658 --> 00:38:15,398
got you know you've got cool hair you're always shirtless like it makes people stop that scroll

482
00:38:15,398 --> 00:38:20,078
i think i hope you know like it makes them pay attention but like though have you gotten because

483
00:38:20,078 --> 00:38:26,418
you post those on like centralized social media too obviously bitcoin obviously people most people

484
00:38:26,418 --> 00:38:30,898
have at least heard of it now like pretty much almost everyone's heard about bitcoin do you still

485
00:38:30,898 --> 00:38:35,598
get a lot of the like bitcoin is a scam type things even on those videos or like you're faking

486
00:38:35,598 --> 00:38:40,658
it bitcoin doesn't work or like what kind of responses do you get to that stuff oh a lot like

487
00:38:40,658 --> 00:38:44,978
oh that wasn't bitcoin bitcoin's too slow oh how's the fees and then some people are like oh you just

488
00:38:44,978 --> 00:38:50,298
spent like 10 million dollars on a banana idiot and i'm just like dude every dollar you have is

489
00:38:50,298 --> 00:38:54,658
at the opportunity cost of buying bitcoin so anytime you spend money that could have been

490
00:38:54,658 --> 00:38:59,198
10 million dollars of bitcoin or whatever you know i'm like okay that guy's bullish there's a huge

491
00:38:59,198 --> 00:39:04,278
there's i think the bitcoiners are the smallest minority on instagram i think a lot of bitcoiners

492
00:39:04,278 --> 00:39:09,858
forget that twitter is tiny social network compared to like instagram and tiktok even

493
00:39:09,858 --> 00:39:16,358
there's way more xrp people on there i think um so we got to make our presence known even on these

494
00:39:16,358 --> 00:39:22,958
other platforms uh feel pretty strongly about that and it's cool to see it actually working

495
00:39:22,958 --> 00:39:29,338
in some of these videos like taking off um yeah it's really bullish i was just walking around this

496
00:39:29,338 --> 00:39:33,998
festival last weekend and a bunch of people stopped me and were like love your bitcoin videos i was

497
00:39:33,998 --> 00:39:42,678
like really people are seeing this stuff it's hilarious all right um yeah so i more i i'm like

498
00:39:42,678 --> 00:39:47,758
man i've filmed this same video 25 times already but no more that's like just my little role to

499
00:39:47,758 --> 00:39:52,578
play in all this and we each have our role like you're doing this podcast that's why i didn't

500
00:39:52,578 --> 00:39:58,998
realize in 2021 before i met any bitcoiners was that like me being on the sidelines you know that

501
00:39:58,998 --> 00:40:02,678
ain't it everybody's little story matters we all gotta post we're all gonna be part of this thing

502
00:40:02,678 --> 00:40:04,458
and feed it with our time and energy.

503
00:40:06,198 --> 00:40:07,318
And it all matters.

504
00:40:07,438 --> 00:40:08,678
And it's all compounding.

505
00:40:10,458 --> 00:40:12,158
I mean, amen to that.

506
00:40:12,378 --> 00:40:13,958
And just to go back to what you said about,

507
00:40:14,158 --> 00:40:17,318
let's say the lack of Bitcoiners on Instagram.

508
00:40:18,038 --> 00:40:20,298
I hadn't used Instagram in a while.

509
00:40:20,418 --> 00:40:21,778
Like I would occasionally post stuff

510
00:40:21,778 --> 00:40:22,798
on like my personal account,

511
00:40:22,858 --> 00:40:24,318
which I keep private on there,

512
00:40:24,318 --> 00:40:26,378
just like stay in touch with old friends and whatnot.

513
00:40:26,918 --> 00:40:28,078
But I started one for the podcast

514
00:40:28,078 --> 00:40:29,578
and started looking around,

515
00:40:29,658 --> 00:40:30,198
like just searching,

516
00:40:30,298 --> 00:40:31,918
like if you just search for Bitcoin

517
00:40:31,918 --> 00:40:37,258
and see what videos pop up and it's like oh my god most of these are just like xrp shills or other

518
00:40:37,258 --> 00:40:42,178
crypto shills it's not about shit coins and like they have they you know they hashtag bitcoin so

519
00:40:42,178 --> 00:40:47,518
it pops up in there but it's like there's very few bitcoiners who are actively posting

520
00:40:47,518 --> 00:40:54,038
on instagram and the ones that are like most of the accounts i mean mine is like pretty small on

521
00:40:54,038 --> 00:41:00,098
there it's like 17 1700 you know followers on there for the podcast account like these these

522
00:41:00,098 --> 00:41:06,178
crypto accounts on there though it's every like it's and it's like gnarly because a lot of them

523
00:41:06,178 --> 00:41:11,978
especially the xrp shills they tend to shit on bitcoin and then shill xrp like that seems to be

524
00:41:11,978 --> 00:41:15,658
kind of their mo which is a bummer because it's like if you're just randomly consuming content

525
00:41:15,658 --> 00:41:20,358
on instagram maybe you don't know much about bitcoin and you go and like someone stumble

526
00:41:20,358 --> 00:41:24,018
across some of these videos like you're getting the worst possible information you're getting the

527
00:41:24,018 --> 00:41:29,778
worst possible the worst intro like it's awful yeah i went to go make a response video i'll

528
00:41:29,778 --> 00:41:45,596
probably rip it tomorrow or whatever Like you know fighting the shitcoin narratives is not fully a waste of time It kind of is but like me and you kind of are the OGs

529
00:41:45,716 --> 00:41:47,116
It's our turn to fight them for a bit.

530
00:41:47,156 --> 00:41:48,996
And then we could just go retire on Nostra.

531
00:41:49,696 --> 00:41:50,096
You know,

532
00:41:50,456 --> 00:41:52,816
I don't know.

533
00:41:53,816 --> 00:41:54,176
I,

534
00:41:54,336 --> 00:41:54,656
a lot of,

535
00:41:54,776 --> 00:41:58,516
a lot of people that were just pure Bitcoin maxis and stuff on that I would

536
00:41:58,516 --> 00:41:58,796
follow.

537
00:41:58,896 --> 00:42:02,096
But when I was kind of learning and on my journey and when I used to hold XRP

538
00:42:02,096 --> 00:42:02,636
and everything,

539
00:42:02,636 --> 00:42:07,516
um they really did steer me in the right direction i feel like now it's time for us to fire back

540
00:42:07,516 --> 00:42:14,276
yeah and i still can't believe it exists this is not the freaking xrp jungle like where the

541
00:42:14,276 --> 00:42:19,536
hell can you use xrp it's literally just the monkey tiny brain just thinking oh it's 10 cents

542
00:42:19,536 --> 00:42:23,796
now it can go to 40 cents or a dollar and i'm gonna be rich it's like did you see what just

543
00:42:23,796 --> 00:42:26,996
happened how many trillions were poured into gold not too long ago you know what happened

544
00:42:26,996 --> 00:42:34,456
that happens to bitcoin bull you know you could just have a deflationary or not deflationary but

545
00:42:34,456 --> 00:42:38,356
you know you can just save in something that doesn't inflate away like guaranteed to zero

546
00:42:38,356 --> 00:42:44,516
dude it's it's rough because and i agree with you it's it's one of those things where when it

547
00:42:44,516 --> 00:42:49,696
comes to the shitcoiner narratives it's a little bit tiresome to like constantly feel like you're

548
00:42:49,696 --> 00:42:53,496
you need to battle them but i agree it's like we're you know we're we're not oh geez i didn't

549
00:42:53,496 --> 00:42:59,496
get into bitcoin until 2020 i i've ignored bitcoin for more years like i first heard about bitcoin in

550
00:42:59,496 --> 00:43:04,776
like 2014 ignored it um was just like whatever nerd to my friend who was trying to talk about it like

551
00:43:04,776 --> 00:43:11,096
should look at you now attention to him didn't ignored it again in 2017 and bought like a light

552
00:43:11,096 --> 00:43:14,796
coin instead because i was like i don't have much money right now i can't afford a full bitcoin

553
00:43:14,796 --> 00:43:18,856
dude that's i mean jack might be right what's your stance on that the bits or sets

554
00:43:18,856 --> 00:43:25,696
the whole i like sats i like sats but i see the argument for bits i just think it's like

555
00:43:25,696 --> 00:43:32,156
boy i don't know i go back and forth in this i said i maybe i have a bias towards sats like just

556
00:43:32,156 --> 00:43:37,076
because it's what i'm used to uh and i have to like train my brain to see like whenever i see

557
00:43:37,076 --> 00:43:41,656
a wallet that has them denominated as bits like takes me a second i'm like how many bitcoin are

558
00:43:41,656 --> 00:43:47,256
in there and it's okay no so like it is it is a retraining thing no but when i'm teaching someone

559
00:43:47,256 --> 00:43:57,416
like i always go these are bits of bitcoin it makes more sense it does it does it does but i'm

560
00:43:57,416 --> 00:44:02,996
kind of a sat match as well yeah it's just it's sticky you know it's sticky but yeah i'm glad that

561
00:44:02,996 --> 00:44:07,036
there are at least different options for it maybe people uh you know whatever appeals to them more

562
00:44:07,036 --> 00:44:12,136
they'll identify with that but yeah it's it's it's tough with the shit corners because they just

563
00:44:12,136 --> 00:44:17,316
continue i feel like the shit coins are very obviously still a dying breed like they're going

564
00:44:17,316 --> 00:44:22,736
to keep coming out and keep coming out but like we know that over a long enough time horizon they're

565
00:44:22,736 --> 00:44:29,036
all trending to zero versus bitcoin the problem is that i think and i probably wouldn't be as vocally

566
00:44:29,036 --> 00:44:34,856
as anti-shit coin in a vocal way as i am if it was just gonna be a waste of time if it weren't

567
00:44:34,856 --> 00:44:40,116
for the fact that so many people get burned by shit coins get into shit coins get burned by it

568
00:44:40,116 --> 00:44:42,056
and then assume Bitcoin is the same thing,

569
00:44:42,296 --> 00:44:45,356
and then ignore Bitcoin for another five years,

570
00:44:45,676 --> 00:44:46,436
like I did.

571
00:44:46,936 --> 00:44:48,236
And I don't want to see that happen.

572
00:44:48,296 --> 00:44:50,176
I don't want to see people get burned by shitcoins.

573
00:44:50,276 --> 00:44:51,356
Sometimes maybe that's the only way

574
00:44:51,356 --> 00:44:53,636
they're going to start learning about Bitcoin

575
00:44:53,636 --> 00:44:54,716
is by getting burned.

576
00:44:55,116 --> 00:44:56,476
But I think for the majority of people,

577
00:44:57,116 --> 00:44:59,856
they think that crypto and Bitcoin is all the same.

578
00:45:00,396 --> 00:45:01,536
Bitcoin gets lumped in that bucket.

579
00:45:01,796 --> 00:45:04,716
And so they assume Bitcoin must be a scam too,

580
00:45:04,796 --> 00:45:07,036
because all their exposure to crypto

581
00:45:07,036 --> 00:45:10,096
has been getting scammed, getting rugged, whatever.

582
00:45:10,116 --> 00:45:14,076
And I think that does hurt Bitcoin adoption for the people that need it most.

583
00:45:14,816 --> 00:45:15,256
Yeah.

584
00:45:16,076 --> 00:45:24,076
And that's why it's cool to kind of live it here because it's just like, okay, look, three years ago, my eggs were this price and now they're this price.

585
00:45:25,516 --> 00:45:26,856
They're this much cheaper now.

586
00:45:26,956 --> 00:45:29,276
I remember spending Bitcoin at 17K around here.

587
00:45:30,036 --> 00:45:35,416
So even though we had a fat dip, it's just like, well, you win some, you lose.

588
00:45:35,416 --> 00:45:42,856
how many businesses in the area uh in in bitcoin jungle are accepting bitcoin i mean over 100

589
00:45:42,856 --> 00:45:48,256
easy with all the farmers markets and like it's not hard to live on a bitcoin standard here

590
00:45:48,256 --> 00:45:54,416
and then the tool that bull bitcoin made here where you could sell bitcoin with very limited

591
00:45:54,416 --> 00:45:59,516
low kyc just a phone number and email and it goes into their venmo style account here

592
00:45:59,516 --> 00:46:05,016
sell it to a phone number so i get gas with bitcoin and stuff too like i sell bitcoin on

593
00:46:05,016 --> 00:46:14,936
the spot and get gas um pretty rad so you just do that down here um and yeah it's not i don't i know

594
00:46:14,936 --> 00:46:20,636
of like one shop that used to accept it and doesn't anymore people just take your money and now since

595
00:46:20,636 --> 00:46:26,096
they have that easy off ramp you know they can have a very low risk like they can get it and sell

596
00:46:26,096 --> 00:46:31,696
it right away for less of a fee than a credit card so that's part of the sauce that makes this happen

597
00:46:31,696 --> 00:46:35,676
And it's really cool too to see it all happen at a grassroots level.

598
00:46:36,196 --> 00:46:39,656
Like Lee, I'm at the Bitcoin Jungle office right now, by the way.

599
00:46:39,856 --> 00:46:40,216
Nice.

600
00:46:40,276 --> 00:46:42,636
We've got a gym and a sauna and an ice bath down here.

601
00:46:42,696 --> 00:46:43,456
I'm on the third floor.

602
00:46:43,976 --> 00:46:45,136
There's a co-work downstairs.

603
00:46:45,736 --> 00:46:47,316
The kids hang out usually in the afternoons.

604
00:46:48,396 --> 00:46:49,296
It's all coming together.

605
00:46:49,816 --> 00:46:56,276
But Lee used to walk around with a bucket of cash to cash people out after farmer's markets if they wanted to.

606
00:46:56,676 --> 00:46:57,936
But that was back in the early days.

607
00:46:58,376 --> 00:46:59,056
So it's evolving.

608
00:46:59,796 --> 00:47:00,556
I don't know, bucket.

609
00:47:00,556 --> 00:47:07,996
maybe a little who knows fanny pack yeah no it's it's cool because i think these circular economies

610
00:47:07,996 --> 00:47:12,516
whether they be like i think no store is probably the biggest you know circular economy in the in

611
00:47:12,516 --> 00:47:17,276
the digital space right now which is awesome but the physical ones i think that is such an

612
00:47:17,276 --> 00:47:24,096
important thing and does really show people like something doesn't have to be massive and

613
00:47:24,096 --> 00:47:29,796
nationwide or whatever for it to make a huge impact like it is often enough to just have that

614
00:47:29,796 --> 00:47:34,556
like local community, have that community be tight. And like everybody there benefits from

615
00:47:34,556 --> 00:47:40,336
spending and receiving Bitcoin. And like, that is a beautiful thing, I think. And I hope we get

616
00:47:40,336 --> 00:47:45,616
towards more of that in terms of getting back to smaller communities, tight knit communities,

617
00:47:45,716 --> 00:47:49,196
communities where everybody knows everybody, there's high trust within the community,

618
00:47:49,196 --> 00:47:54,896
but you can still use this amazing trustless money on top of that. Right. Like we want trustless

619
00:47:54,896 --> 00:47:59,076
money, but we want trust in people. Like ideally, you know, we don't want, we don't want to not be

620
00:47:59,076 --> 00:48:03,636
able to trust our fellow human that we're living next to but i feel like we just people have gotten

621
00:48:03,636 --> 00:48:09,836
so used to spreading out uh or being in really really really big cities where it's like you're

622
00:48:09,836 --> 00:48:15,636
just a you know uh just a face like nobody really knows you it's a pretty cool thing to see what

623
00:48:15,636 --> 00:48:19,976
bitcoin has enabled for some of these communities whether it be like in you've i'm sure you've

624
00:48:19,976 --> 00:48:24,736
probably surfed in uh in elzante before like that's that's just a that's an awesome vibe there

625
00:48:24,736 --> 00:48:29,796
and like this i i want to see more of these circular communities popping up and go visit

626
00:48:29,796 --> 00:48:33,736
more of them and like i think they're only going to continue increasing because the ones that are

627
00:48:33,736 --> 00:48:38,116
out there like you know it's like it's successful like it is actually working you know what i mean

628
00:48:38,116 --> 00:48:44,056
yeah exactly and this is like this is the end stage of bitcoin and you can kind of choose to

629
00:48:44,056 --> 00:48:48,016
live that now and now it's even easier to kind of choose that within with your friends and family

630
00:48:48,016 --> 00:48:55,256
um even in the states with square and yeah you could just purchase stuff on nostr now with sats

631
00:48:55,256 --> 00:49:01,376
and just have it get delivered you know it's like use the thing use the toys that were the devs are

632
00:49:01,376 --> 00:49:09,036
giving us for open source communities and developers uh yeah it's cool are there uh

633
00:49:09,736 --> 00:49:13,916
outside of like okay we talked a bit about what you guys are building a primal and everything

634
00:49:13,916 --> 00:49:20,016
in terms of other that idea of you're using nostras this backbone for something else that's

635
00:49:20,016 --> 00:49:25,076
maybe not social media we saw like bit chat obviously has built in nostra features but even

636
00:49:25,076 --> 00:49:29,396
just like other marketplace or other things are there other sides of nostra that you're kind of

637
00:49:29,396 --> 00:49:34,116
excited about that are outside of the social media realm of things that are outside of like

638
00:49:34,116 --> 00:49:37,416
something that's you know you guys aren't trying to build at primal but like hey somebody else is

639
00:49:37,416 --> 00:49:40,836
building this it's kind of outside of social media that's really cool like is there something

640
00:49:40,836 --> 00:49:41,876
that's on your radar for that?

641
00:49:42,916 --> 00:49:44,796
Mostly just the messaging stuff.

642
00:49:45,756 --> 00:49:50,736
If they can match the UX of normal, you know, apps,

643
00:49:50,896 --> 00:49:55,336
this whole CEOs being heroes of free speech

644
00:49:55,336 --> 00:49:56,356
is so cringe to me.

645
00:49:56,856 --> 00:49:59,356
Like the whole Elon, even like the Rumble guy,

646
00:49:59,476 --> 00:50:02,416
like haven't fixed the root cause.

647
00:50:02,696 --> 00:50:04,656
And that is we need to be able to do all this

648
00:50:04,656 --> 00:50:06,476
permissionlessly and sovereignly.

649
00:50:06,476 --> 00:50:08,116
Like maybe the market has spoken.

650
00:50:08,276 --> 00:50:09,116
It's been, you know,

651
00:50:09,116 --> 00:50:11,156
they haven't chose the sovereign way yet.

652
00:50:11,736 --> 00:50:13,356
Maybe they'll be forced to one day.

653
00:50:13,436 --> 00:50:14,296
I don't know how it's all going to work.

654
00:50:14,356 --> 00:50:15,296
Maybe it's going to be hybrids.

655
00:50:15,456 --> 00:50:18,196
Maybe it's going to be like just this right to exit.

656
00:50:18,316 --> 00:50:22,256
With Divine, they're going to have a way to hold their keys,

657
00:50:22,396 --> 00:50:25,176
but then they can give them to you after or something like that.

658
00:50:25,256 --> 00:50:26,696
So just regular email password.

659
00:50:28,896 --> 00:50:31,176
But yeah, the whole sovereign messaging thing

660
00:50:31,176 --> 00:50:32,616
and the end-to-end encrypted messages,

661
00:50:32,816 --> 00:50:35,876
NOSTA relays in between, no central server,

662
00:50:36,396 --> 00:50:38,236
be able to spin up anything without a phone number.

663
00:50:38,236 --> 00:50:45,076
that sounds like some awesome tech that's really needed and maybe we just throw it in primal one

664
00:50:45,076 --> 00:50:52,576
day you know with everything uh built on these open protocols so that fires me up too i i'm super

665
00:50:52,576 --> 00:50:58,796
stoked about like uh white noise that uh that jeff g and and that team is building because these are

666
00:50:58,796 --> 00:51:04,196
they're tools that i think a lot of people i think this is where a lot of noster is right now is it's

667
00:51:04,196 --> 00:51:09,256
like us trying to share the message which i think was what a lot of us myself included were sharing

668
00:51:09,256 --> 00:51:14,076
initially around nostr when we were first getting kind of really excited about it was like look

669
00:51:14,076 --> 00:51:18,896
you want to be able to use something that is uncensorable where you can hold your own keys

670
00:51:18,896 --> 00:51:24,036
where you can be you know more sovereign in terms of you know owning your owning your actual data

671
00:51:24,036 --> 00:51:28,016
owning your you know account but it's not even an account it's just you own this cryptographic

672
00:51:28,016 --> 00:51:33,076
key pair and look you know if you get censored like on a centralized platform you're screwed

673
00:51:33,076 --> 00:51:37,176
but here I know so that can't happen but like the reality is a lot of people just don't care about

674
00:51:37,176 --> 00:51:43,096
that yet but they will something like they may not care about encrypted messaging that's transmitted

675
00:51:43,096 --> 00:51:47,096
anonymously over nose to realize like with white noise may not care about the marmot protocol that

676
00:51:47,096 --> 00:51:52,916
they built out as well but like you will someday like yeah I mean rather use it first before you

677
00:51:52,916 --> 00:51:57,196
really like before you really really fucking need it like you'd rather have it figured out before

678
00:51:57,196 --> 00:52:03,076
then i would yeah but i would think as well i i mean i get a little cosmic about it too man maybe

679
00:52:03,076 --> 00:52:08,196
it's too much jungle but just dude every time we post something into somebody else's little box

680
00:52:08,196 --> 00:52:13,316
like every time we post something to the zucks world we're just empowering him empowering that

681
00:52:13,316 --> 00:52:19,076
whole entire ecosystem that's obviously extracted but it's like you need to be on meta ads right now

682
00:52:19,076 --> 00:52:25,896
if you're a business too like so it's so tough but it's so cool that what all this represents

683
00:52:25,896 --> 00:52:28,256
and it's been theorized for forever, I feel like.

684
00:52:29,156 --> 00:52:30,536
And I think this is our best shot

685
00:52:30,536 --> 00:52:31,736
at actually making it all happen.

686
00:52:33,356 --> 00:52:37,536
Do you think the next like big wave of NOSTA adoption,

687
00:52:38,056 --> 00:52:39,696
assuming, I'm assuming there will be one,

688
00:52:39,716 --> 00:52:40,996
I'm assuming there's gonna be many waves

689
00:52:40,996 --> 00:52:43,196
for a very long time, but like the next big wave,

690
00:52:43,616 --> 00:52:45,576
do you think that ends up coming from people

691
00:52:45,576 --> 00:52:48,836
running away from censorship,

692
00:52:49,376 --> 00:52:50,456
centralized social media, whatever,

693
00:52:50,616 --> 00:52:52,456
like trying to escape something?

694
00:52:52,556 --> 00:52:53,696
Or do you think it's from people

695
00:52:53,696 --> 00:53:00,376
that are going to be running toward just a better experience or a really cool you know something

696
00:53:00,376 --> 00:53:05,876
like divine right that's like this nostalgic old but new experience but do you think it's going to

697
00:53:05,876 --> 00:53:11,556
come from that running away or the running toward because it seems like so far we've mainly seen we

698
00:53:11,556 --> 00:53:16,876
saw like the jack wave we saw that you know snowed in he brought a big wave as well some of the uh

699
00:53:16,876 --> 00:53:22,616
the you know crackdowns on platforms in other countries brought some various waves of things

700
00:53:22,616 --> 00:53:26,696
some censorship on reddit or other things like that okay there's been these waves but it seems

701
00:53:26,696 --> 00:53:32,556
like besides the the jack and snowden which were people running towards something that they were

702
00:53:32,556 --> 00:53:38,476
talking about positively so i guess that could kind of go both ways like it seems like we haven't

703
00:53:38,476 --> 00:53:43,896
had people really diving into noster specifically because they're running toward the great user

704
00:53:43,896 --> 00:53:49,196
experience or the great optionality it's like it's mostly been people that are like either directly

705
00:53:49,196 --> 00:53:54,276
fleeing from something or are really worried about needing to flee from something in the future.

706
00:53:54,576 --> 00:53:58,776
And so that's like, that's why they're here now. But like, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

707
00:53:58,776 --> 00:54:02,156
Cause I go back and forth on this, like on what's going to end up bringing more people, you know?

708
00:54:02,596 --> 00:54:07,256
I mean, maybe we'll get more creators on there and then they're going to get it and they're

709
00:54:07,256 --> 00:54:10,836
going to make videos and great propaganda besides like, we only have Max's, you know,

710
00:54:10,836 --> 00:54:15,196
great Nostia documentary. We need more of those out there. There's so many good documentaries,

711
00:54:15,356 --> 00:54:18,196
like the social dilemma, right? Do you remember watching that?

712
00:54:19,196 --> 00:54:25,476
you have that but you put like an actual solution to this like hey this is humanity's messy but we

713
00:54:25,476 --> 00:54:30,116
have this way to do this without giving these platforms complete control over everything about

714
00:54:30,116 --> 00:54:35,716
our lives to just harvest our data and everything um so it could just take a nice wave of propaganda

715
00:54:35,716 --> 00:54:43,376
but it also could just take something breaking you know you could just x could break x could

716
00:54:43,376 --> 00:54:49,156
get banned in a lot of different places medic same thing so it could take that it could take

717
00:54:49,156 --> 00:54:55,456
just a viral wave i mean that's what i'm trying to i'm just you know making a stew just stirring

718
00:54:55,456 --> 00:55:00,096
the pot just throwing stuff out there seeing what sticks and might just accidentally start a movement

719
00:55:00,096 --> 00:55:04,056
i mean i used to work for saladino we got freaking kennedy in the white house now talking

720
00:55:04,056 --> 00:55:08,516
shit about seed oils and putting raw milk in everybody's face like dude this is all possible

721
00:55:08,516 --> 00:55:10,916
and it's going to be a fun ride.

722
00:55:11,116 --> 00:55:12,396
I don't know how long it's going to take,

723
00:55:12,556 --> 00:55:14,356
but it seems like a lot of fun.

724
00:55:14,436 --> 00:55:16,256
We're seeing Rumble gain a lot of popularity

725
00:55:16,256 --> 00:55:18,376
just by marketing free speech.

726
00:55:18,416 --> 00:55:20,036
And yeah, they have some of their own cool infrastructure.

727
00:55:20,176 --> 00:55:21,336
Not much is different about it though.

728
00:55:21,356 --> 00:55:22,516
It's just the people went over there

729
00:55:22,516 --> 00:55:24,236
and then some creators went over there

730
00:55:24,236 --> 00:55:26,536
and they figured out a way to incentivize creators

731
00:55:26,536 --> 00:55:27,136
in the beginning.

732
00:55:27,476 --> 00:55:30,016
I was listening to his story with Rick Rubin

733
00:55:30,016 --> 00:55:30,696
not too long ago.

734
00:55:30,856 --> 00:55:33,156
And yeah, there's this kind of this magic.

735
00:55:33,696 --> 00:55:34,976
It all takes a little bit of luck.

736
00:55:35,056 --> 00:55:38,256
It takes survival for these social networks

737
00:55:38,256 --> 00:55:44,136
to scale. So I don't want to pretend like I know the magic pill. I mean, our thing on the 13th and

738
00:55:44,136 --> 00:55:50,156
16th will cause some noise. I'm excited for that. But again, it's probably the gravity of the

739
00:55:50,156 --> 00:55:55,796
network that's going to lift everybody up. It's going to just be useful. I think that's fair.

740
00:55:56,216 --> 00:56:01,396
And I do, I agree on the creator side. Like it really does make it, you get a couple of larger

741
00:56:01,396 --> 00:56:05,996
creators that are, you know, whether they're, you know, normie creators or whatever, or political,

742
00:56:05,996 --> 00:56:10,116
uh you know political influencers whatever that might be but people that have really large

743
00:56:10,116 --> 00:56:16,856
audiences and i think maybe one of the reasons that you haven't seen stuff like that right now

744
00:56:16,856 --> 00:56:23,076
is because because like x elon did take over x people the the sort of d platform that was

745
00:56:23,076 --> 00:56:28,756
happening on youtube to kind of slow down a bit you know people started getting some channels back

746
00:56:28,756 --> 00:56:34,236
yeah regime change could change a lot but but exactly it's like but a couple more years depends

747
00:56:34,236 --> 00:56:36,276
on who's like in the White House here in the US

748
00:56:36,276 --> 00:56:38,316
or in whatever, you know,

749
00:56:38,536 --> 00:56:39,916
parliamentary houses around the world,

750
00:56:39,976 --> 00:56:41,956
like things can change really fast.

751
00:56:42,116 --> 00:56:43,596
So I think maybe we got lucky

752
00:56:43,596 --> 00:56:45,596
that this is like a little bit of a lull right now

753
00:56:45,596 --> 00:56:46,376
where everyone's like, yeah,

754
00:56:46,456 --> 00:56:48,376
free speech is back on all the centralized platforms.

755
00:56:48,516 --> 00:56:49,176
We don't have to worry.

756
00:56:49,556 --> 00:56:50,456
And then it's like-

757
00:56:50,456 --> 00:56:53,776
I thought Bitcoin was going to a million in 2017.

758
00:56:53,776 --> 00:56:55,696
And I thought again, in all the bull markets,

759
00:56:55,696 --> 00:56:58,376
like, you know, I don't understand.

760
00:56:58,856 --> 00:57:00,056
Same, I don't understand with Nostra.

761
00:57:00,136 --> 00:57:01,696
But then at the same time, looking back hindsight,

762
00:57:01,916 --> 00:57:03,476
like, oh my God, lightning was nowhere.

763
00:57:03,476 --> 00:57:06,996
we didn't have e-cash we didn't have all these different ways of possibly scaling bitcoin spark

764
00:57:06,996 --> 00:57:11,736
arc um like we need all this for bitcoin to scale and to get to millions of dollars and reach

765
00:57:11,736 --> 00:57:15,936
billions of people and then for nostril like oh my god we had all these broken clients and when

766
00:57:15,936 --> 00:57:20,956
the jacking happened and then primal was just looking like this a couple years ago like no

767
00:57:20,956 --> 00:57:25,616
it wasn't ready why would people go to that it's just like this knockoff thing so no build something

768
00:57:25,616 --> 00:57:34,556
new and give it our best shot it is interesting one of the biggest like criticisms of Nostra I

769
00:57:34,556 --> 00:57:40,996
still see if I post about it on x is people saying oh well I tried it but the the ux was so bad or

770
00:57:40,996 --> 00:57:45,536
like or it doesn't work or whatever and you ask them like okay well when did you try it what did

771
00:57:45,536 --> 00:57:52,396
you try and it's usually like well I tried it in like 2023 um and and then they had a bad experience

772
00:57:52,396 --> 00:57:54,316
and they just didn't try it again.

773
00:57:54,596 --> 00:57:58,576
Like, that initial touch point does make a huge difference.

774
00:57:58,736 --> 00:58:00,216
It's sticky in people's heads.

775
00:58:00,616 --> 00:58:02,336
If we had the jackening right now,

776
00:58:02,936 --> 00:58:07,216
but also if we didn't, we wouldn't be here probably.

777
00:58:07,456 --> 00:58:07,836
So, right?

778
00:58:07,876 --> 00:58:08,636
Right, right.

779
00:58:09,196 --> 00:58:13,576
We need a jackening, jackening to the re-jackening.

780
00:58:14,216 --> 00:58:15,156
Yeah, I guess.

781
00:58:15,896 --> 00:58:16,896
I wonder what we're going to do.

782
00:58:16,896 --> 00:58:20,216
If you're listening to this right now, we need the re-jackening.

783
00:58:20,616 --> 00:58:21,876
Yeah, I mean, he does his part.

784
00:58:21,876 --> 00:58:24,716
He still has Primal in his bio on Twitter, which is amazing.

785
00:58:25,276 --> 00:58:27,616
But there's some things we've got to change.

786
00:58:27,656 --> 00:58:34,396
You know something that he's always been kind of manifesting is just starter packs.

787
00:58:34,476 --> 00:58:36,816
And Callie with the following dot space, you know about that.

788
00:58:37,136 --> 00:58:40,796
That's something we still haven't built into Primal that no client's done perfectly, in my opinion.

789
00:58:40,956 --> 00:58:42,596
And we need to do that.

790
00:58:42,676 --> 00:58:43,856
Just like friends bringing friends.

791
00:58:44,036 --> 00:58:46,516
Make tools that make it easy for friends to come on.

792
00:58:46,516 --> 00:58:48,796
And I built something.

793
00:58:49,136 --> 00:58:50,936
Dude, I still can't believe Vibe Coding.

794
00:58:50,936 --> 00:58:55,036
I listened to an episode with Derek and Alex, who are wizards.

795
00:58:55,576 --> 00:58:56,336
It's so fun.

796
00:58:57,036 --> 00:58:59,616
And even guys like us can do it.

797
00:59:00,756 --> 00:59:07,856
I built this whole tool where you can just rip your content from Instagram and bring it to Primal super easily.

798
00:59:08,696 --> 00:59:17,996
Even people who created a key pair a while ago can just log in with Primal now, put in their Instagram name, and then sign it again with their Primal.

799
00:59:17,996 --> 00:59:21,296
and it all just appears in the same date that they brought it over.

800
00:59:21,576 --> 00:59:24,916
Same with Substack, Twitter, and Instagram.

801
00:59:25,916 --> 00:59:26,736
Dude, that's...

802
00:59:26,736 --> 00:59:27,136
And TikTok.

803
00:59:27,856 --> 00:59:30,796
Does the Substack come over as a long form then?

804
00:59:31,016 --> 00:59:32,876
So your Substacks won't look good,

805
00:59:32,936 --> 00:59:35,056
but the normal Substacks where people are just writing,

806
00:59:35,216 --> 00:59:36,276
like yours is, yeah.

807
00:59:36,656 --> 00:59:38,356
But yeah, it'll go in as reads.

808
00:59:39,336 --> 00:59:40,236
Wow, wow.

809
00:59:40,236 --> 00:59:40,416
Yeah.

810
00:59:41,296 --> 00:59:42,596
Dude, that's slick.

811
00:59:43,036 --> 00:59:43,856
It's pretty slick.

812
00:59:44,376 --> 00:59:46,996
And then I also figured out a way to do it for someone

813
00:59:46,996 --> 00:59:51,616
because this is all like I'm a hacker dude like trying to hack a social network I had no idea how

814
00:59:51,616 --> 00:59:56,736
to do this but one of the things was like why would somebody want to start from absolute zero

815
00:59:56,736 --> 01:00:02,576
and repost all their content like on there from scratch like who knows where to even go dig that

816
01:00:02,576 --> 01:00:07,836
up in your photos and everything so that's what's cool about this tool too is I found out a way to

817
01:00:07,836 --> 01:00:14,496
make to like gift an account so I upload say someone has a twitter an instagram and a sub stack

818
01:00:14,496 --> 01:00:16,416
I could do all three of those in one gift.

819
01:00:16,616 --> 01:00:20,716
They just get a link and it just tells them to copy the key.

820
01:00:20,836 --> 01:00:24,776
And then it prompts them to open primal and that'll make them download primal.

821
01:00:24,856 --> 01:00:27,256
And they just enter their key in there, all their content appears.

822
01:00:28,016 --> 01:00:33,956
And I built in there a way for them to auto follow a couple of friends that is in there too.

823
01:00:34,036 --> 01:00:36,596
So like, I don't know, that's a scheme I have coming.

824
01:00:37,056 --> 01:00:39,256
And the site's live right now.

825
01:00:39,276 --> 01:00:40,516
It's called ownyourpost.com.

826
01:00:40,576 --> 01:00:41,736
You should play with it and let me know what's broken.

827
01:00:43,176 --> 01:00:43,976
Ownyourpost.com?

828
01:00:43,976 --> 01:00:52,816
yeah yeah ownyourposts.com that's okay yeah it's pretty rad did you use uh shakespeare uh or did

829
01:00:52,816 --> 01:00:58,656
you know that was all cloud code okay okay i want to build some nostre apps too i want to build like

830
01:00:58,656 --> 01:01:02,616
i mean i think somebody did it scrabble i used to play words with friends every day with my mom

831
01:01:02,616 --> 01:01:08,656
in college and i think you know little things like that like games going viral then just you

832
01:01:08,656 --> 01:01:13,916
have to generate a key pair without users even knowing you know nostre can scale like that

833
01:01:13,916 --> 01:01:15,956
there's just infinite ways of all this to happen.

834
01:01:16,036 --> 01:01:16,996
And like Alex said,

835
01:01:17,016 --> 01:01:17,756
and like I've said before,

836
01:01:17,756 --> 01:01:21,316
it's just this Cambrian explosion of apps that's just happening because you

837
01:01:21,316 --> 01:01:22,476
can do it all without permission.

838
01:01:22,896 --> 01:01:24,416
So it's this nice,

839
01:01:24,516 --> 01:01:25,976
perfect storm that that's brewing.

840
01:01:26,096 --> 01:01:27,676
Like it's all happening.

841
01:01:28,376 --> 01:01:31,776
What are your thoughts on like the micro app versus the,

842
01:01:31,776 --> 01:01:33,296
the super app on those two?

843
01:01:33,336 --> 01:01:35,556
Cause obviously Primal does a lot,

844
01:01:35,656 --> 01:01:36,636
but you guys aren't trying,

845
01:01:36,736 --> 01:01:37,056
you know,

846
01:01:37,076 --> 01:01:39,396
you've already said you're not trying to do everything.

847
01:01:39,556 --> 01:01:40,876
Like you're still trying to stay focused.

848
01:01:40,876 --> 01:01:46,216
i know jack had talked for a while and still does about that idea of like what he sees is like okay

849
01:01:46,216 --> 01:01:51,516
we have just you know tons and tons of different micro apps really specific stuff but you're don't

850
01:01:51,516 --> 01:01:54,836
need a different account for each one you just still have the same key pair that you're using

851
01:01:54,836 --> 01:02:00,836
for all these how do you see that like do you use yourself a bunch of different uh apps on

852
01:02:00,836 --> 01:02:07,156
are you pretty much just using primal like how do you see that playing out so did you see what we

853
01:02:07,156 --> 01:02:11,176
just built with the login with primal yeah I've used it it's super slick and

854
01:02:11,176 --> 01:02:16,996
that's sick so like it's really nice it can get extremely smooth I don't know if

855
01:02:16,996 --> 01:02:22,036
we did post about how smooth it can get but it's Atlantis and Olaz are

856
01:02:22,036 --> 01:02:35,154
implementing it and you literally just click once the reader extra primal log in and you back in and it like this is it and people have been memeing about this forever i don want to create another username and password here we go log in

857
01:02:35,154 --> 01:02:40,474
with primal one one key all your apps and then that'd be cool to have a hardware device for it

858
01:02:40,474 --> 01:02:45,314
too just imagine entering your nsec and having all the apps just appear and you're already logged

859
01:02:45,314 --> 01:02:50,994
into everything that'd be amazing too i think you're right that it is things like that that

860
01:02:50,994 --> 01:02:56,154
reduce the friction because like, yeah, okay. You mentioned, you know, the initial experience of,

861
01:02:56,254 --> 01:03:00,454
and I had the exact same thought, like you felt like such a cool, like, you know, uh, as a non

862
01:03:00,454 --> 01:03:03,834
hacker, you feel like a real hacker, you know, setting up your public key and your private key.

863
01:03:03,834 --> 01:03:07,154
And, you know, it's, you know, if you I've already used Bitcoin, you're kind of, okay,

864
01:03:07,274 --> 01:03:11,794
at least a little familiar with this, but for people who haven't used Bitcoin at all and haven't,

865
01:03:11,794 --> 01:03:15,894
you know, are, are real normies, you're not a real normie, Paul, that's, you gave, I'm not falling

866
01:03:15,894 --> 01:03:21,674
for this uh but for real normies that like what do you mean i don't like where can i put my email

867
01:03:21,674 --> 01:03:25,634
or where do i need to sign sign up like what do you mean i just generate a public private key oh

868
01:03:25,634 --> 01:03:30,574
if i lose this private key it's just gone i have to start over like i think that is a huge friction

869
01:03:30,574 --> 01:03:35,094
point for people i think it freaks people out to be honest yeah rabble's talked a lot about that

870
01:03:35,094 --> 01:03:39,694
they want like customer support where it's like please reset my password for me you know it's like

871
01:03:39,694 --> 01:03:44,634
no that's like you get one but like so i think that that is still a huge friction point so anything

872
01:03:44,634 --> 01:03:49,234
we can do to make that easier, which I think you guys have already taken a really good step toward.

873
01:03:49,374 --> 01:03:55,494
I think that's huge for just smoothing the onboarding experience. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

874
01:03:55,574 --> 01:04:00,594
man, I've had some friends lose accounts and I'm just like, well, it's all Godspeed, man. Like this

875
01:04:00,594 --> 01:04:05,734
is going to happen when it's bound to happen. Same with Bitcoin. Like I think it's going to

876
01:04:05,734 --> 01:04:10,594
happen. I mean, Bitcoin I'm more positive about, I mean, like that has to happen. Um,

877
01:04:10,594 --> 01:04:16,234
and then non-star or something like it is going to happen as well and it's a good thing that we

878
01:04:16,234 --> 01:04:19,914
haven't reached mass adoption yet because people just lose their accounts like there's reasons for

879
01:04:19,914 --> 01:04:26,114
this right um we did add save to iCloud for your key pair as well for iOS which I've been asking

880
01:04:26,114 --> 01:04:30,614
for and begging for Domus has had that this whole time that makes me sleep a little better at night

881
01:04:30,614 --> 01:04:35,174
of course there's a couple trade-offs but Apple's pretty good actually about that stuff so

882
01:04:35,174 --> 01:04:39,774
yeah things like that um we're not going to go first with having some sort of email password

883
01:04:39,774 --> 01:04:48,194
type um type situation um but we're gonna watch that with interest um we're gonna see what divine

884
01:04:48,194 --> 01:04:57,874
does um yeah be interesting have you been using divine a little bit uh because it was like like

885
01:04:57,874 --> 01:05:02,754
all of us it was so shit when rabble announced it i was like holy shit watching it go viral

886
01:05:02,754 --> 01:05:10,954
because that got like i think 36 million or more impressions it's like oh my god um and the rabble

887
01:05:10,954 --> 01:05:14,434
nailed something there the whole like proof of human thing that he's building in there that's

888
01:05:14,434 --> 01:05:20,934
that's something that's that's a killer feature right um but i've used and then the last time i

889
01:05:20,934 --> 01:05:25,434
checked in the video were the videos were working it was getting smoother i could actually the the

890
01:05:25,434 --> 01:05:31,274
editor was working so yeah it's coming and you'll be able to see those in primal i'll give away that

891
01:05:31,274 --> 01:05:36,754
too oh yes okay we got another yeah so but that's that's cool too because like if they if all these

892
01:05:36,754 --> 01:05:43,074
old creators get back on vine be able to see like logan paul and like all the maybe what are some of

893
01:05:43,074 --> 01:05:47,294
those other names i forget that used to use vine get back on there and you can just see it in primal

894
01:05:47,294 --> 01:05:55,414
and i can't i zap you but you know we'll get to that yeah step by step i do love that proof of

895
01:05:55,414 --> 01:06:01,274
human, this thing, or like, look, we, we specifically want to not have AI generated

896
01:06:01,274 --> 01:06:02,034
content here.

897
01:06:02,214 --> 01:06:03,574
And I think that's really cool.

898
01:06:03,634 --> 01:06:08,934
I think that's, that's going to be a, a bigger selling point than people realize as we go

899
01:06:08,934 --> 01:06:09,194
forward.

900
01:06:09,194 --> 01:06:12,454
Cause you, you know this, cause you're still like, like I am.

901
01:06:12,514 --> 01:06:12,814
Yeah.

902
01:06:12,814 --> 01:06:14,254
Like I use Noster every single day.

903
01:06:14,294 --> 01:06:16,074
I also use centralized platforms, right?

904
01:06:16,134 --> 01:06:16,634
I do.

905
01:06:16,694 --> 01:06:19,074
I often show Noster on those platforms as well.

906
01:06:19,074 --> 01:06:19,194
Yeah.

907
01:06:19,194 --> 01:06:20,354
We were very grateful for you.

908
01:06:20,534 --> 01:06:20,854
Great job.

909
01:06:21,134 --> 01:06:22,434
I do what I can, right?

910
01:06:22,774 --> 01:06:22,914
Yeah.

911
01:06:22,914 --> 01:06:24,114
It's my, I'm not a dev.

912
01:06:24,234 --> 01:06:28,394
So like, you know, if you can't code, you know, podcast and maybe now with AI, if you,

913
01:06:28,554 --> 01:06:31,794
if you know how to, if you know how to code, you might need to learn to podcast pretty soon.

914
01:06:32,354 --> 01:06:33,214
That's a different story.

915
01:06:33,214 --> 01:06:36,274
But what I was going to say is like, there is so much slop.

916
01:06:36,474 --> 01:06:39,954
Like there's, you go on X and like, I, I just, I mute stuff.

917
01:06:40,014 --> 01:06:42,914
If I see like, look, you're obviously it's either bot generated.

918
01:06:43,174 --> 01:06:47,854
Like you're either just a full on bot or you're just using some AI to write all of your posts.

919
01:06:47,854 --> 01:06:50,254
And I can tell, like, I don't want to waste my time with that.

920
01:06:50,254 --> 01:06:54,814
I want, I want a filter for humanness. So I know that if somebody is posting this,

921
01:06:55,294 --> 01:06:59,254
they actually took the time to like, think about it and write it. They didn't just outsource their

922
01:06:59,254 --> 01:07:03,574
thinking to feed me some slop. Like, I want to know what you're thinking, not what the, you know,

923
01:07:03,594 --> 01:07:09,074
an AI reasoned for you and put into a long form text. Like, no, no, I want the humanness. And I

924
01:07:09,074 --> 01:07:15,694
think that we're going to see that desire accelerate and accelerate and accelerate and having things

925
01:07:15,694 --> 01:07:21,114
like divine or just even building that uh you know i think i would hope that more of these uh

926
01:07:21,114 --> 01:07:25,694
even the centralized platforms would build out filters like that like hey i want to filter out

927
01:07:25,694 --> 01:07:32,934
content that is most likely generated by a bot or generated by ai like i at least want the option

928
01:07:32,934 --> 01:07:38,194
because i just i don't want to see all that slop i'd rather know that something is real and human

929
01:07:38,194 --> 01:07:43,374
and was generated by a human being isn't it obvious maybe we're in the minority i don't know

930
01:07:43,374 --> 01:07:49,434
no i don't think so actually and yeah people i see all these posts and stuff but like

931
01:07:49,434 --> 01:07:54,194
they don't why am i logging on to this app right now like what am i searching for and

932
01:07:54,194 --> 01:08:03,314
it's all kind of ripe in my opinion for improvement um kind of forgot i was gonna say but

933
01:08:03,314 --> 01:08:07,854
oh yeah how much of a signal is it that jeff booth just freaking hooked up some some bot to

934
01:08:07,854 --> 01:08:13,054
his twitter and is like hey i'm just here you guys take the slop and it gets reposted like

935
01:08:13,054 --> 01:08:20,134
crazy every day and then he's just like for real on Noster that's amazing when I saw him doing that

936
01:08:20,134 --> 01:08:25,294
I was like this is a Jeff this is brilliant I saw him in person shortly after he started that

937
01:08:25,294 --> 01:08:30,914
experiment and talked to him about it and I think it's like it's brilliant it's he's he's he's

938
01:08:30,914 --> 01:08:36,534
basically just very subtly or not so subtly if you kind of saw his posts on Noster like you know

939
01:08:36,534 --> 01:08:40,514
exactly what he's doing but for everybody else he's just sort of giving this subtle signal that

940
01:08:40,514 --> 01:08:43,394
Like, look, you're only going to get AI Jeff.

941
01:08:43,474 --> 01:08:45,374
And yes, it's trained on everything Jeff says.

942
01:08:45,434 --> 01:08:46,954
It says things that Jeff would say.

943
01:08:47,334 --> 01:08:48,214
You don't know any better.

944
01:08:48,474 --> 01:08:50,734
You might think it's actually Jeff, but it's not.

945
01:08:50,814 --> 01:08:54,154
He's only putting his real human time into Noster.

946
01:08:54,654 --> 01:08:58,014
And I think that is like such a, I don't know, it's brilliant.

947
01:08:58,014 --> 01:09:01,454
When I saw that, I was like, damn, Jeff, like that is, that's smooth.

948
01:09:01,654 --> 01:09:02,374
It's really cool.

949
01:09:02,814 --> 01:09:03,494
Super smooth.

950
01:09:03,594 --> 01:09:07,014
I think shortly after that, Odell hooked up a Stay Humble Stack Sat spot.

951
01:09:07,834 --> 01:09:09,714
He was just hitching to get back on it.

952
01:09:09,714 --> 01:09:10,694
Oh, of course she was.

953
01:09:10,694 --> 01:09:10,914
Yeah.

954
01:09:11,094 --> 01:09:11,734
Let's be honest.

955
01:09:11,834 --> 01:09:12,194
For it.

956
01:09:12,354 --> 01:09:12,554
Yeah.

957
01:09:13,354 --> 01:09:14,134
We know that.

958
01:09:14,134 --> 01:09:17,274
What's the real reason of facing this right now?

959
01:09:17,634 --> 01:09:17,914
Yeah.

960
01:09:18,554 --> 01:09:19,274
Oh, man.

961
01:09:19,474 --> 01:09:23,634
But yeah, this whole verify that you're human thing, that's just another question.

962
01:09:23,714 --> 01:09:25,114
Like, how are we going to do that on Noster?

963
01:09:26,854 --> 01:09:36,574
And then, but yeah, like juxtaposing your experience on Noster when you hop on another platform, you can feel them doing anything they can to keep your attention there.

964
01:09:36,574 --> 01:09:42,734
And a lot of times the slop, because it's so weird and this extra normal stimuli will keep you there.

965
01:09:43,194 --> 01:09:44,154
And they like that.

966
01:09:44,254 --> 01:09:46,274
So then it's shown to more people, right?

967
01:09:47,414 --> 01:09:49,254
And that doesn't happen as much on Nostro.

968
01:09:49,314 --> 01:09:50,134
Yeah, there's slop on there.

969
01:09:50,194 --> 01:09:54,114
Yeah, there's some people hacking the primal trending algorithm and whatever.

970
01:09:54,394 --> 01:09:58,194
But it's going to be interesting going forwards.

971
01:09:58,574 --> 01:10:00,274
And like, how are we going to prove you're human?

972
01:10:00,414 --> 01:10:02,394
Oh, maybe just come to a conference down in Costa Rica.

973
01:10:02,514 --> 01:10:03,234
I'll scan your mpub.

974
01:10:03,334 --> 01:10:05,074
Make sure that you can zap from that one.

975
01:10:05,074 --> 01:10:06,054
Check your zap receipt.

976
01:10:06,194 --> 01:10:06,374
Boom.

977
01:10:06,574 --> 01:10:07,914
There's a human that controls that empire.

978
01:10:08,334 --> 01:10:11,314
That's not a freaking world coin orb scanning your eyeballs.

979
01:10:13,394 --> 01:10:19,334
So I think there's another way to do this that isn't so dystopian.

980
01:10:20,054 --> 01:10:21,734
And is it going to all be on Noster?

981
01:10:22,674 --> 01:10:24,274
Is Noster just a piece of it?

982
01:10:24,514 --> 01:10:26,194
Is there going to be Web 5 resurrection?

983
01:10:26,594 --> 01:10:27,214
I don't know.

984
01:10:28,714 --> 01:10:29,854
It's past my pay grade.

985
01:10:29,854 --> 01:10:36,854
Well, no, and I think it's a, I'm very curious at some of the kind of like social graph,

986
01:10:36,854 --> 01:10:41,734
or there's a couple other names that have been used for it, but basically utilizing people's,

987
01:10:41,734 --> 01:10:45,234
you know, it starts to sound like a social credit score, but it's not, it's like, it's

988
01:10:45,234 --> 01:10:47,734
a community, almost a community score, right?

989
01:10:47,734 --> 01:10:48,734
Like, okay.

990
01:10:48,734 --> 01:10:49,734
Yeah.

991
01:10:49,734 --> 01:10:52,054
X, Y, and Z people have met this person in real life.

992
01:10:52,054 --> 01:10:53,054
This is a real person.

993
01:10:53,054 --> 01:10:54,054
We verified it.

994
01:10:54,054 --> 01:10:58,034
Like you said, you know, we like somebody has verified, yes, this person with their end

995
01:10:58,034 --> 01:10:59,834
pub showed it to me in person.

996
01:10:59,834 --> 01:11:00,274
I know it.

997
01:11:00,314 --> 01:11:01,414
Like, I know that this is them.

998
01:11:01,474 --> 01:11:03,594
It's real because that's another thing.

999
01:11:03,614 --> 01:11:08,614
Like just even from a, not even from a slop perspective, but like from a security perspective,

1000
01:11:08,614 --> 01:11:11,714
like the scams man are going to get so much worse.

1001
01:11:12,354 --> 01:11:16,414
And this is why, like the only way you're going to get around that is like, Hey, this

1002
01:11:16,414 --> 01:11:20,054
was signed by Paul's, by Paul's private key.

1003
01:11:20,054 --> 01:11:24,354
Like, I know this is from Paul because he signed it with his private key because so-and-so

1004
01:11:24,354 --> 01:11:27,534
confirmed that yes, Paul is still in control of that private key.

1005
01:11:27,534 --> 01:11:32,794
Like this stuff sounds like, oh, that's, you know, you won't like, I think we're not far away from really needing that.

1006
01:11:33,074 --> 01:11:33,474
Yeah.

1007
01:11:33,474 --> 01:11:37,594
Almost every interaction that we have online, because it's going to be so hard to tell.

1008
01:11:37,994 --> 01:11:38,394
Right.

1009
01:11:38,454 --> 01:11:47,174
If someone's actually themselves, uh, whether they're in control of, you know, that, that private key, if, if it was compromised amount, right, that's going to be a hard problem.

1010
01:11:47,314 --> 01:11:57,114
But I think that like Noster plus Bitcoin as a way to also add an economic incentive to that is at least, you know, probably not the whole solution.

1011
01:11:57,114 --> 01:12:01,514
but I think part of it at least, I hope. Yeah. I mean, Gigi always says like the proof of work

1012
01:12:01,514 --> 01:12:06,534
plus the web of trust will fix like 95% of the internet. So I hope and think that's true.

1013
01:12:07,954 --> 01:12:13,374
Yeah. Yeah. Let's, I mean, let's see. I'm, I'm super bullish though, broadly on Noster. And

1014
01:12:13,374 --> 01:12:19,214
honestly, the, the fact that since we started this conversation off talking about Nosterica

1015
01:12:19,214 --> 01:12:26,354
three years ago now, again, wild that it's been three years. It, the improvements that I've seen

1016
01:12:26,354 --> 01:12:28,674
across many different apps.

1017
01:12:28,774 --> 01:12:30,534
I mean, I was using Domus then.

1018
01:12:30,614 --> 01:12:31,734
I'm still using Domus now.

1019
01:12:31,854 --> 01:12:34,534
I use Domus and Primal are both my daily drivers.

1020
01:12:34,634 --> 01:12:36,174
I use them both multiple times a day.

1021
01:12:36,674 --> 01:12:38,994
I use Zap.Stream as well.

1022
01:12:39,674 --> 01:12:41,114
I occasionally use some other ones.

1023
01:12:41,154 --> 01:12:42,634
I was using Highlighter, Pablo,

1024
01:12:43,274 --> 01:12:45,714
until you stopped working on it

1025
01:12:45,714 --> 01:12:47,014
because you started working on Olaz.

1026
01:12:47,054 --> 01:12:48,714
I'll forgive you, but...

1027
01:12:48,714 --> 01:12:51,794
Pablo's working on like 55 things at once.

1028
01:12:51,934 --> 01:12:52,454
Dude, I know.

1029
01:12:52,574 --> 01:12:53,374
He's wild.

1030
01:12:53,554 --> 01:12:54,034
He's wild.

1031
01:12:54,414 --> 01:12:56,054
You know any agencies he's got going now?

1032
01:12:56,054 --> 01:13:01,054
is just it's crazy man like the people that have been paying attention oh man they're like 100

1033
01:13:01,054 --> 01:13:06,414
people at once though uh it is it is nuts and he was already like 10 people at once so like he's

1034
01:13:06,414 --> 01:13:10,414
easy yeah yeah he's got a little bit of a advantage but no like what i would say is this

1035
01:13:10,414 --> 01:13:15,414
if somebody's listening to this and they are not yet on no stir if you're just a subscriber to the

1036
01:13:15,414 --> 01:13:20,194
podcast first of all thank you uh paul and i've been live streaming this on no stir it works people

1037
01:13:20,194 --> 01:13:25,734
been in the chat sending me sats thank you guys to everybody who sent sats by the way uh so far

1038
01:13:25,734 --> 01:13:30,134
Let's see what, uh, how many sats I've got to, I don't know where it, don't know where

1039
01:13:30,134 --> 01:13:31,254
it went, but thank you.

1040
01:13:31,314 --> 01:13:33,114
Multiple people sending sats here in this chat.

1041
01:13:33,194 --> 01:13:34,694
That is like, that is amazing.

1042
01:13:35,354 --> 01:13:39,314
Noster is, you should give 13,024 sats so far.

1043
01:13:39,394 --> 01:13:39,934
Thank you guys.

1044
01:13:40,034 --> 01:13:42,174
Thank you to everybody who is watching live on Noster.

1045
01:13:42,714 --> 01:13:43,754
That is awesome.

1046
01:13:44,334 --> 01:13:45,774
It's the experience.

1047
01:13:45,854 --> 01:13:49,374
If you tried Noster, I'm speaking again, people who are not using it every day right now.

1048
01:13:49,654 --> 01:13:52,974
You tried Noster a couple of years ago and you thought this doesn't work very well.

1049
01:13:53,334 --> 01:13:54,134
You were probably right.

1050
01:13:54,134 --> 01:13:56,434
Um, but it's so much better.

1051
01:13:56,434 --> 01:13:58,334
It's gotten, you won't even recognize it.

1052
01:13:58,334 --> 01:14:00,454
It's gotten so much better and you have optionality.

1053
01:14:00,454 --> 01:14:05,594
So I would just really encourage people try Noster again, try it for the first time.

1054
01:14:05,594 --> 01:14:10,254
And if you're a content creator, if you're already posting on like five different social

1055
01:14:10,254 --> 01:14:14,794
medias and a, you know, a blog and all these other things, why not at least post on Noster

1056
01:14:14,794 --> 01:14:15,134
as well?

1057
01:14:15,174 --> 01:14:16,574
You can probably automate it too.

1058
01:14:16,594 --> 01:14:19,234
If you wanted to just scrape your YouTube videos or whatever else.

1059
01:14:19,374 --> 01:14:19,734
Yeah.

1060
01:14:19,774 --> 01:14:20,134
Let me know.

1061
01:14:20,154 --> 01:14:21,014
Just hit me up for that.

1062
01:14:21,054 --> 01:14:21,534
I got you.

1063
01:14:21,534 --> 01:14:24,374
I've built that.

1064
01:14:25,074 --> 01:14:25,654
Paul's got it.

1065
01:14:26,854 --> 01:14:28,094
What's your

1066
01:14:28,094 --> 01:14:30,674
kind of pitch these days

1067
01:14:30,674 --> 01:14:32,154
to, let's say,

1068
01:14:32,654 --> 01:14:34,514
people who are not yet on Noster?

1069
01:14:34,734 --> 01:14:36,674
The pitch is obviously different depending on who you're

1070
01:14:36,674 --> 01:14:38,094
talking to, but let's say

1071
01:14:38,094 --> 01:14:40,454
the pitch to content creators

1072
01:14:40,454 --> 01:14:42,494
like your friends who are maybe not

1073
01:14:42,494 --> 01:14:44,634
as orange-billed or not as purple-billed yet,

1074
01:14:44,974 --> 01:14:46,474
how do you talk to them

1075
01:14:46,474 --> 01:14:47,034
about Noster?

1076
01:14:50,034 --> 01:14:50,634
Um...

1077
01:14:51,534 --> 01:14:58,934
i tell them it's just like it it's just the standard it changes per creator like yeah i was

1078
01:14:58,934 --> 01:15:02,474
super gung-ho about this free speech thing but that's like not as much of a narrative anymore

1079
01:15:02,474 --> 01:15:07,494
then the own your content but then what does that really mean so it depends if i'm in the flesh i'm

1080
01:15:07,494 --> 01:15:12,494
like watch this i can just send bitcoin like that you can get bitcoin so that's still what i say

1081
01:15:12,494 --> 01:15:18,654
um but yeah i i'd show them the different apps as well if i'm in the if they're getting mind

1082
01:15:18,654 --> 01:15:26,714
blown by that you could see their content in multiple apps so that's part of it but i don't

1083
01:15:26,714 --> 01:15:32,774
know i've kind of eased off the gas pedal right now before because like we had what it was primal

1084
01:15:32,774 --> 01:15:36,694
2.0 for a while now now they're like the next stage i'm gonna go freaking hard and see what

1085
01:15:36,694 --> 01:15:40,394
works again and now that i have this tool to like bring their content with them like why not

1086
01:15:40,394 --> 01:15:46,374
i'll link that in the uh i'll link it in the show notes ownyourposts.com

1087
01:15:46,374 --> 01:15:51,754
that honestly it is incredible that again people like you and i were not i mean i did like some

1088
01:15:51,754 --> 01:15:57,274
c plus plus in in high school and whatnot uh little things but like you know forgotten most

1089
01:15:57,274 --> 01:16:03,314
of that i pretty much just remember if then else maybe a for loop or two but like i i can't code

1090
01:16:03,314 --> 01:16:08,434
but now like i can do some pretty cool stuff or at least get something to like a minimum viable

1091
01:16:08,434 --> 01:16:13,734
product that i never would have been able to before and that is like a hugely powerful force

1092
01:16:13,734 --> 01:16:17,774
I think like we're in and we're still so early in this vibe coding journey you know what I mean

1093
01:16:17,774 --> 01:16:23,894
like it's only going to get easier smoother more streamlined like what that's why I love what uh

1094
01:16:23,894 --> 01:16:27,174
Derek and Alex are doing and shout out to you for bringing up that episode too

1095
01:16:27,174 --> 01:16:32,194
it's like Shakespeare is super powerful and you can build yourself a noester client actually funny

1096
01:16:32,194 --> 01:16:38,014
story I got a I got a strike on YouTube because I linked the footster client the page for the

1097
01:16:38,014 --> 01:16:42,514
footster client yeah I didn't realize like that it was gonna just apparently YouTube scans those

1098
01:16:42,514 --> 01:16:46,394
links and it said like there was nudity in this link i'm like oh shit like i don't know what

1099
01:16:46,394 --> 01:16:51,414
so i like delete i'm like okay well that's my first youtube strike but you know what worth it

1100
01:16:51,414 --> 01:16:56,314
for yeah for the meme for the footster eric for this derrick made me vibe code footster you know

1101
01:16:56,314 --> 01:17:00,294
what else kind of resonates to creators and just people too and friends it's like everybody knows

1102
01:17:00,294 --> 01:17:06,094
social media doesn't make them feel good anymore especially like instagram and even twitter like

1103
01:17:06,094 --> 01:17:11,174
most of my friends are mostly on instagram not even twitter they know it doesn't make them feel

1104
01:17:11,174 --> 01:17:17,914
good they know they're addicted and tiktok um so that's something else i say like hey we're

1105
01:17:17,914 --> 01:17:23,854
building this thing that gives users more choice algorithms are opt-in and i want without saying

1106
01:17:23,854 --> 01:17:29,554
it directly that we're trying to build like a healthier social media so that's kind of what

1107
01:17:29,554 --> 01:17:34,534
else i would say to a creator i think that and a little fomo that they're early too but yeah well

1108
01:17:34,534 --> 01:17:40,034
right right but no that it's a really important part like you know if you spend enough time just

1109
01:17:40,034 --> 01:17:46,754
doom scrolling on x like you feel bad man like you don't feel good it's not yeah especially if

1110
01:17:46,754 --> 01:17:50,234
you're just going by whatever the algo is feeding you if you're not like searching out specific

1111
01:17:50,234 --> 01:17:55,074
content from people that you follow like you will it gets you in a weird headspace but you don't get

1112
01:17:55,074 --> 01:18:00,954
that on no stir like you don't come away feeling the same it's and you're right social media

1113
01:18:00,954 --> 01:18:05,754
generally makes people feel bad depending on how they're consuming it i mean it's a tool like

1114
01:18:05,754 --> 01:18:10,674
anything else right but it's a tool that's been gamed to really keep your focus keep your attention

1115
01:18:10,674 --> 01:18:15,794
Noster doesn't have that same gamification of it and like you don't come away feeling like shit

1116
01:18:15,794 --> 01:18:19,914
every time you log on to it you know but still somehow you come chasing those dopamine hits on

1117
01:18:19,914 --> 01:18:23,574
centralized social media again and again it's wild you know you feel like crap afterwards you know

1118
01:18:23,574 --> 01:18:29,154
it's wild it's yeah it's just the name of the game I tried to take a week off last week and I honestly

1119
01:18:29,154 --> 01:18:35,534
failed it's kind of pathetic like i accidentally look of centralized social media no i was like

1120
01:18:35,534 --> 01:18:40,454
just kind of working everything because we're gonna do i'm ready for a little sprint now but um

1121
01:18:40,454 --> 01:18:47,594
yeah i tried to take a week off but then i looked at twitter and then i was like fuck if i don't

1122
01:18:47,594 --> 01:18:52,634
like make myself way smarter with ai and like figure out how to use these tools i'm gone i'm

1123
01:18:52,634 --> 01:19:00,354
done you know but yeah it's just it's crazy these ai is awesome because it saves us time but i feel

1124
01:19:00,354 --> 01:19:05,374
like we're in this weird zone right now where it's we're spending more time on the screen

1125
01:19:05,374 --> 01:19:12,734
trying to figure it all out i think that's going to fix itself eventually but um yeah strange time

1126
01:19:12,734 --> 01:19:17,814
it is man and and you know it's uh it's one of those things too where

1127
01:19:17,814 --> 01:19:23,454
especially like you and i we're both you know have young kids or you know or a young kid in both our

1128
01:19:23,454 --> 01:19:29,314
cases uh together young kids like you know amazing amazing wives amazing kids like you want to spend

1129
01:19:29,314 --> 01:19:34,594
as much time with them as possible like that's the whole that's the whole meaning of all this right

1130
01:19:34,594 --> 01:19:40,994
is spend as much time with those people you love and so having i think noster has honestly helped

1131
01:19:40,994 --> 01:19:49,094
me build much healthier habits because it wasn't until Noster that I realized just how destructive

1132
01:19:49,094 --> 01:19:54,754
yes like that the centralized social media could be like I couldn't see it entirely until I had

1133
01:19:54,754 --> 01:19:59,374
the contrast of how you feel and how you experience Noster and I'm glad that that came around like

1134
01:19:59,374 --> 01:20:05,974
before uh we had our our son just because like I don't know it's it's very easy now for me to be

1135
01:20:05,974 --> 01:20:11,614
like you know arguing with so and so like on on x like that literally means nothing that's not

1136
01:20:11,614 --> 01:20:15,394
going to help anyone it's not going to make my day better why am i doing that instead of spending

1137
01:20:15,394 --> 01:20:20,454
time with my awesome wife and awesome son like that's just that's just dumb like so i think it

1138
01:20:20,454 --> 01:20:25,234
helps to nostr does a good job of helping to put things in perspective by showing you what social

1139
01:20:25,234 --> 01:20:29,874
media can be like and that it doesn't have to be so addictive doesn't have to make you feel like

1140
01:20:29,874 --> 01:20:34,974
it doesn't have to keep you glued in there you can use it put it away like and not have those same

1141
01:20:34,974 --> 01:20:38,774
like, you know, dopamine withdrawals that a lot of people get. And so I think that's like

1142
01:20:38,774 --> 01:20:43,734
setting people up for just those healthier habits is a very underrated perk of Noster,

1143
01:20:43,854 --> 01:20:48,574
at least for me. And it sounds like for you. Yeah, that's exactly, I mean, you just feel it,

1144
01:20:48,714 --> 01:20:56,194
you feel it so hard. Like I unfollowed everybody from Instagram now and it's way better, but in a

1145
01:20:56,194 --> 01:21:02,394
way it's worse because you hop on the app and then you can't turn off algorithm at all, at least not

1146
01:21:02,394 --> 01:21:07,874
on iOS. I haven't figured it out. Um, for like the explore page, when you go to search somebody

1147
01:21:07,874 --> 01:21:14,334
and it's just like, does everything that they can to keep you there. And you can fill that on

1148
01:21:14,334 --> 01:21:18,474
Nostra. Like I hop in and I put a pinned feed. So my first thing I see is stay focused.

1149
01:21:20,134 --> 01:21:23,474
That's something that you could do in primals advanced searches, like create your own feeds.

1150
01:21:23,634 --> 01:21:27,654
It could be a feed of just your friends on there. Um, but little things like that,

1151
01:21:27,694 --> 01:21:31,114
having the ability to customize what you're seeing and being in control of what you see is what

1152
01:21:31,114 --> 01:21:35,174
is a critical piece to this healthier social media that we're all trying to build.

1153
01:21:36,434 --> 01:21:39,574
And it's so funny, all the developers of Nostra right now,

1154
01:21:39,614 --> 01:21:42,954
they're also based and they'll hate social media so much that they had to go build it.

1155
01:21:43,314 --> 01:21:44,334
It's kind of ironic.

1156
01:21:44,874 --> 01:21:45,534
It is.

1157
01:21:45,834 --> 01:21:48,254
Yeah. And you can feel that DNA in all the clients.

1158
01:21:48,454 --> 01:21:50,914
I mean, the revolution will have good UX,

1159
01:21:51,094 --> 01:21:55,054
but the revolution I don't think will be just trying to hack your attention at all costs.

1160
01:21:55,054 --> 01:22:01,614
well i want to thank you for giving me a bunch of your attention and your time here

1161
01:22:01,614 --> 01:22:07,154
today away from your beautiful family maybe but just as we as we wrap up here uh you know so that

1162
01:22:07,154 --> 01:22:13,494
i can uh clip this into uh into something to you know purple pill more normies uh what are there

1163
01:22:13,494 --> 01:22:19,254
some maybe we could start with this okay how what is like the fastest way how quickly can people get

1164
01:22:19,254 --> 01:22:23,694
started with primal and what are maybe some tips and tricks with you know not even with your new

1165
01:22:23,694 --> 01:22:28,174
features, but with primal 2.0 that people can use to like get the most out of the experience.

1166
01:22:28,174 --> 01:22:32,554
You mentioned the, uh, the, the different pinned feeds and things like that. What else maybe might

1167
01:22:32,554 --> 01:22:36,174
people be interested in, or maybe people that are already using it, that may not just be aware of

1168
01:22:36,174 --> 01:22:39,774
everything that's going on. Like, what are some things you would want people to say? Like, okay,

1169
01:22:40,074 --> 01:22:44,634
get, get set up on Noster, try this. This is going to make your experience better. Like from day one.

1170
01:22:45,134 --> 01:22:51,434
All right. So day one, you're new to primal, new to Noster, make an awesome introductory post say,

1171
01:22:51,434 --> 01:22:56,234
hey, I'm so-and-so, I do this, I like this, here's how I found Noster, here's a

1172
01:22:56,234 --> 01:23:03,074
photo of myself, hashtag introductions. There you go. Then you email or DM me,

1173
01:23:03,074 --> 01:23:07,394
Paul in the Jungle, on any platform and say that this is me. And then I repost it

1174
01:23:07,394 --> 01:23:12,734
and boom, you get Bitcoin. It's magic. You get to feel Noster. And maybe people

1175
01:23:12,734 --> 01:23:19,934
will find it before they even, before I even repost it or anything. You don't want to just hop on

1176
01:23:19,992 --> 01:23:24,192
there and then not post. Like get on there, introduce yourself and then start interacting

1177
01:23:24,192 --> 01:23:27,592
with the community. And you'll be able to feel it right away what's different.

1178
01:23:29,092 --> 01:23:33,472
And then what else in the app? I just want people to know that they can, well, first of all,

1179
01:23:33,512 --> 01:23:38,452
anybody can write an article by going to promo.net on web and then clicking into the read section,

1180
01:23:38,552 --> 01:23:42,372
my articles, and then they can write. I want people to use the read section more often.

1181
01:23:43,132 --> 01:23:47,632
And then I also want people to know that they can edit their feeds. So you'll touch like the

1182
01:23:47,632 --> 01:23:52,492
latest tab on the top and you can turn on like trending 24 hours, four hours, whatnot.

1183
01:23:52,812 --> 01:23:58,592
You could change around the order of all that. So you, um, yeah, just in more control.

1184
01:24:00,292 --> 01:24:05,832
That is, I think a really, a really nice feature. And one of the things that initially on Nostar

1185
01:24:05,832 --> 01:24:10,452
people complained about was like, ah, there was no, like in case you missed it or like it,

1186
01:24:10,472 --> 01:24:13,812
cause it, you know, when it was just straight chronological was the only feed anyone had.

1187
01:24:14,032 --> 01:24:17,332
I think it was tough. Like if you didn't happen to be online within like a certain window of

1188
01:24:17,332 --> 01:24:20,392
some of these posts nobody had retweeted it recently like you'd miss some cool stuff like

1189
01:24:20,392 --> 01:24:26,472
this to me was a huge uh a huge like leg up there this was a really big improvement i think and i'm

1190
01:24:26,472 --> 01:24:31,072
glad to see like more clients have also introduced something similar to that because it just it makes

1191
01:24:31,072 --> 01:24:37,432
the experience better yeah like we need algorithms on doster they just need to be open sourcing

1192
01:24:37,432 --> 01:24:43,452
people need to know why what they're doing amen to that well paul i've kept you here uh right up

1193
01:24:43,452 --> 01:24:48,152
until the time it was great to chat man this was this was a blast hopefully we can do it in person

1194
01:24:48,152 --> 01:24:53,332
you make it back down to costa rica it's very i'm jealous of you being shirtless outside right now

1195
01:24:53,332 --> 01:24:59,592
it's i'm wearing like a thick like wrangler uh sweater thing here and it's fucking cold outside

1196
01:24:59,592 --> 01:25:05,192
and brutal and northern the northern states here but uh where can people find you where can they

1197
01:25:05,192 --> 01:25:18,772
go check out primal anywhere else you want to send people yeah just paw in the jungle on primal on Instagram Feel free to message me I get back to everybody Hit me up up with any questions and get on nostril i zap some sats the next time you in costa rica i

1198
01:25:18,772 --> 01:25:24,252
give you a coconut sick i'm gonna take you up on that man yeah thank you to everybody who tuned in

1199
01:25:24,252 --> 01:25:29,592
on the live stream i appreciate you all i appreciate the zaps uh i'm gonna i'm gonna have

1200
01:25:29,592 --> 01:25:34,852
to pay half of these forward to uh to paul i think for for being such a great guest here today

1201
01:25:34,852 --> 01:25:41,292
but thank you appreciate everybody who joins in on no stir this podcast always goes on no stir live

1202
01:25:41,292 --> 01:25:45,392
first and then you know if you're not on no stir you just get it get it later with everyone else

1203
01:25:45,392 --> 01:25:49,912
but you can be on no stir and you can get this live as it happens in real time and you can send

1204
01:25:49,912 --> 01:25:55,212
me sats which i know you're wanting to do so paul cheers man appreciate this was a blast

1205
01:25:55,212 --> 01:25:59,572
best to you and your family and uh yeah hope we get to chat again soon see you soon

1206
01:26:04,852 --> 01:26:11,632
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin Talk episode of The Bitcoin Podcast.

1207
01:26:12,292 --> 01:26:16,252
Remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you're watching or listening,

1208
01:26:16,652 --> 01:26:20,552
and share it with your friends, family, and strangers on the internet.

1209
01:26:20,552 --> 01:26:27,252
Find me on Noster at primal.net slash walker and this podcast at primal.net slash titcoin.

1210
01:26:27,852 --> 01:26:31,112
On X, YouTube, and Rumble, just search at Walker America.

1211
01:26:31,112 --> 01:26:35,972
and find this podcast on X and Instagram at titcoinpodcast.

1212
01:26:35,972 --> 01:26:38,652
Head to the show notes to grab sponsor links.

1213
01:26:38,812 --> 01:26:43,452
Head to substack.com slash atwalkeramerica to get episodes emailed to you

1214
01:26:43,452 --> 01:26:47,252
and head to bitcoinpodcast.net for everything else.

1215
01:26:47,792 --> 01:26:51,352
Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant.

1216
01:26:51,872 --> 01:26:56,972
So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to the Bitcoin podcast.

1217
01:26:57,592 --> 01:27:00,012
Until next time, stay free.

1218
01:27:01,112 --> 01:27:12,612
kon Pang