1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,620
Just imagine if you were the first person to discover the properties of gold and like, and no one else could like, like, well, it's just like this malleable metal.

2
00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:07,740
That's like, why would you want to use that?

3
00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:08,880
It's kind of like useless.

4
00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:10,480
It's a very fortunate time.

5
00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:18,820
Everyone who is like not partaking or at least like looking into it or at least learning about it, you're doing yourself a huge disservice because it's like the best.

6
00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:20,180
This is the most unique time.

7
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,620
Think of like at cosmological scales, like what's the earth, like 4.7 billion years or something.

8
00:00:24,620 --> 00:00:31,140
And like we're at this one moment in time where we create this technology that is perfect scarcity, mathematical scarcity based off the laws of physics.

9
00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:32,720
And you're here at this point in time.

10
00:00:32,820 --> 00:00:34,580
It's like and you think it's a scam.

11
00:00:34,860 --> 00:00:38,240
Can you talk about the biggest fumble of your like entire existence?

12
00:00:38,540 --> 00:00:42,180
I can't think of anything more important to be doing other than building on Bitcoin.

13
00:00:42,540 --> 00:00:44,320
Nothing else seems as important.

14
00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,520
I have like this like really anti like authoritarian thing.

15
00:00:47,580 --> 00:00:52,800
I think it was driven by that like trauma experience as a kid, just like always being told it off my computer when I was like, that's all I want to do.

16
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:58,660
So when Apple's telling me that I can't do something, I'm like, I want to burn you to the ground now.

17
00:00:59,340 --> 00:01:01,720
My number one focus is to build around you.

18
00:01:01,860 --> 00:01:05,620
I always say a conversation at a bar is the most decentralized thing you can do.

19
00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:06,940
It's completely peer-to-peer.

20
00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,520
It doesn't require any centralized architecture.

21
00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:10,660
Infrastructure, no cloud involved.

22
00:01:10,820 --> 00:01:11,900
You're just having a beer with someone.

23
00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:19,040
So I think what peer-to-peer technology is simply restoring that human thing we've been doing for hundreds of thousands of years.

24
00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,940
So I think it's worthwhile.

25
00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:30,320
Greetings and salutations, my fellow plebs.

26
00:01:30,420 --> 00:01:32,880
My name is Walker, and this is The Bitcoin Podcast.

27
00:01:33,420 --> 00:01:36,620
Bitcoin continues to create new blocks every 10 minutes.

28
00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,600
The value of one Bitcoin is still one Bitcoin.

29
00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:44,320
And if you're listening to this right now, remember, you are still early.

30
00:01:44,900 --> 00:01:49,180
If you're not already, go ahead and subscribe to this show wherever you're watching or listening,

31
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,680
and share it with your friends, family, and strangers on the internet.

32
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:57,680
If you want to follow me in the show on Noster and X, just head to the show notes to grab the links.

33
00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:02,640
If you're enjoying The Bitcoin Podcast and want to support it by becoming a paid subscriber,

34
00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,380
you can download the Fountain app, search for The Bitcoin Podcast,

35
00:02:06,900 --> 00:02:11,160
and subscribe by paying with Bitcoin via lightning or fiat via card.

36
00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:15,860
You'll get access to ad-free episodes and early releases of select content,

37
00:02:16,060 --> 00:02:17,900
plus you'll help support this show.

38
00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,360
Head to the show notes for product discount links.

39
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,040
go to walkeramerica.substack.com to get episodes emailed to you and head to

40
00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:31,600
bitcoinpodcast.net for everything else. Without further ado, let's get into this Bitcoin talk.

41
00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:45,500
Uncle Jim 21 on Noster, he built a tool called Pull That Up Jamie.

42
00:02:46,220 --> 00:02:46,580
Oh, really?

43
00:02:46,900 --> 00:02:48,900
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's pretty sweet.

44
00:02:48,900 --> 00:02:54,880
um is so like he walked me through it and i met him in dc we just got to chat and it was like one

45
00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,300
of those things where you know you're chatting with someone's like oh you know like what do you

46
00:02:57,300 --> 00:03:02,420
you know do around the old bitcoin space and he's like oh you know like or this and that and like i

47
00:03:02,420 --> 00:03:06,460
built this like thing called pull up jamie i'm like no way like i kept seeing marty bent using

48
00:03:06,460 --> 00:03:12,280
this all the time but it's basically like a uh a place for you to it'll automatically archive your

49
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:17,960
podcast episodes and then allow you like it'll automatically like creates like lo-fi clips for

50
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:24,000
you um it does all the stuff that i can publish to to noster uh straight from it um you know does

51
00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:28,020
other like summaries and stuff so it's like it's it's pretty sweet uh but the the name like it's

52
00:03:28,020 --> 00:03:33,260
pull that up jamie.ai and it's like that's that's just that that's a great that's a great site name

53
00:03:33,260 --> 00:03:38,260
when i hear that i just assume it's like an ai agent that's like replicates jamie like during

54
00:03:38,260 --> 00:03:43,300
the podcast and you can just ask it to like pull stuff up i think that'd be cooler honestly jim if

55
00:03:43,300 --> 00:03:49,120
you're listening to this uh that would be pretty sweet like that that's honestly like yeah i need

56
00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,660
to be able to basically like have a an assistant that's listening that i can just kind of vibe

57
00:03:53,660 --> 00:03:58,080
chat with to be like like pull that up jamie and they could pull that up during it can just do like

58
00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:03,060
web searches like instantly it'd probably be way faster than jamie so honestly like i could probably

59
00:04:03,060 --> 00:04:09,260
do that like with with chat gpt or like with grok at this point but the problem is that like i feel

60
00:04:09,260 --> 00:04:12,820
like a lot of those times those conversations will time out um it would also just keep like

61
00:04:12,820 --> 00:04:17,200
trying to talk to you like if you know you need to like have it like set up so it had that trigger

62
00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:22,080
word of like pull that up jamie yeah and then you then you'd probably be good to go but but yeah

63
00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,600
um i'm also i want to give it another shout out i'm gonna give a shout out to ben justman because

64
00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:32,940
he sent me uh we're we're doing a uh i'd call it a value for vino collaboration where basically it's

65
00:04:32,940 --> 00:04:38,280
like the coolest thing ever like i'm just gonna drink his wine on this show peony lane wine which

66
00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:43,860
is delightful and he's gonna send me wine to drink and so like that's like honestly like

67
00:04:43,860 --> 00:04:49,280
kind of awesome and like i think we need more of that one of my favorite one of my favorite things

68
00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:54,980
is like having a like wine subscription every month so if i could just like pay in sats to get

69
00:04:54,980 --> 00:05:00,080
wine delivered to my door every month that'd be dude that'd be ideal i'm pretty sure ben has

70
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:05,900
they don't they don't ship to they don't ship to canada i asked him before that's your that's

71
00:05:05,900 --> 00:05:10,540
your first problem we do have cravado i think i think they're on nostor as well if that's how you

72
00:05:10,540 --> 00:05:18,960
say their name so um i should ask him actually dude i i love uh i love that the kind of small

73
00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:26,300
business marketplace aspect of nostor has it feels like it's been like kind of taking off i mean like

74
00:05:26,300 --> 00:05:30,940
it's still at a small scale but like there's there's a lot of folks now that are using nostor

75
00:05:30,940 --> 00:05:35,060
as the way that they are like marketing their small business or even like taking orders and i

76
00:05:35,060 --> 00:05:39,700
think that's a super like super great use case for this especially if you can like literally take

77
00:05:39,700 --> 00:05:45,300
orders through a zap like that's that's pretty sweet it's probably one of the most important

78
00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:50,820
things for the long-term success of like the zap economy i've always called it and like zap

79
00:05:50,820 --> 00:05:54,200
commerce because if you don't have people like actually using it for stuff day to day

80
00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,540
then it's then it's still just like a toy and it's and it's fine as a toy it's like oh you know

81
00:05:58,540 --> 00:06:03,500
you know you get drunk and you start tipping people on nostril like i do occasionally um but

82
00:06:03,500 --> 00:06:08,520
It's not like that's not going to make like Zaps and Noster succeed in the long run.

83
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,600
So, yeah, we definitely need those marketplaces to get going.

84
00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,740
And I was just talking to, I think it was like Talvadev, his name is, in Portland.

85
00:06:17,300 --> 00:06:19,900
And he's working on a lot of the Shopster stuff, I think.

86
00:06:20,100 --> 00:06:21,340
A lot of the marketplace stuff.

87
00:06:22,140 --> 00:06:25,360
And, yeah, he really like, I'm like, I didn't realize there's so much stuff going on.

88
00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:26,260
So I'm really excited for that.

89
00:06:26,300 --> 00:06:29,180
They were doing like milk distribution of some kind.

90
00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,700
Because like sometimes it's hard to get like raw milk or it's like legal.

91
00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:36,400
ones you're part of the world like in canada it's like illegal like in canada we don't we're not

92
00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:41,060
even allowed to have like medium rare burgers at restaurants like you can't tell i don't know if

93
00:06:41,060 --> 00:06:46,660
that's a joke or if it's not a joke i'm not even joking seriously yeah if you if you google you'll

94
00:06:46,660 --> 00:06:51,280
see canada you can't ask for a medium rare burger in a restaurant canada but you can get like

95
00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:55,100
friggin fentanyl off the street it's just most ridiculous you can't get raw milk either it's

96
00:06:55,100 --> 00:07:01,900
illegal okay that that like is there like a secret code word you can use if like you want a medium

97
00:07:01,900 --> 00:07:06,500
rare burgers that you tell them like you know it's just not in the culture so like if people

98
00:07:06,500 --> 00:07:09,680
if you were to ask that order at a restaurant they'd be like what do you mean like it's just

99
00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,980
not like something that you do it's just you just go get a burger and it's just like well done or

100
00:07:13,980 --> 00:07:19,800
something it's just like a piece of leather leather yeah you know i will say like you know i

101
00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:25,800
who doesn't like to make fun of canada but i've made a lot of incredibly based uh bitcoin and

102
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,980
no stir friends that are canadians such as yourself like but like the countless numbers

103
00:07:29,980 --> 00:07:34,720
like i feel so privileged because i never knew that many canadians like i could probably count

104
00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:39,460
the canadians i knew on like both hands growing up and then it's like now like i have a ton of

105
00:07:39,460 --> 00:07:43,040
canadian friends and they're all super based obviously there's a selection bias there because

106
00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,020
they're bitcoin and noster people but like i think there's a lot of hope for canada still

107
00:07:47,020 --> 00:07:51,600
you know yeah i mean i think we had a lot of the or i don't know it just seems to be like a lot of

108
00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,280
like bitcoiner engineers are here um we i think we had the first bitcoin atm in vancouver like in

109
00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:02,200
the world you know obviously we have like um nvk's company we have you know a lot of a lot of people

110
00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:07,860
like coin cards here in um in vancouver so yeah i don't know there's a lot of cool canadians and uh

111
00:08:07,860 --> 00:08:11,880
yeah we're actually having a yeah yeah we're actually having a conference tomorrow at the

112
00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:16,980
convention center in vancouver tomorrow oh maybe yeah tomorrow or saturday so that's gonna be fun

113
00:08:16,980 --> 00:08:22,740
it's like one of the first like ones in vancouver which can be exciting oh that's sweet i like i've

114
00:08:22,740 --> 00:08:29,080
only been to canada a couple of times i've enjoyed it each time uh very much but then like i you know

115
00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,460
it's like i'm just getting like a little a little taste of it i'm not seeing all the insanity that

116
00:08:33,460 --> 00:08:37,840
happens you know behind the scenes like oh it's like so nice to visit then like i come back and

117
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:43,180
i read some ridiculous news story or i find out that you can't have a gosh darn medium rare burger

118
00:08:43,180 --> 00:08:48,220
and it's like what the hell is this what's this place coming to yeah freedom is just like much

119
00:08:48,220 --> 00:08:51,460
more suppressed here and it's kind of just been normalized we don't really think about it like we

120
00:08:51,460 --> 00:08:55,860
don't have guns we don't have like the freedoms that you guys have and but people just like go on

121
00:08:55,860 --> 00:09:01,960
with their lives oh yeah it's like you need uh you need to basically like get a yearly documentation

122
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,400
like recheck you have to like read redo the test like every year or something it's like very annoying

123
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:11,380
to have a gun yeah that's like i mean in in illinois we have to uh like i'm originally from

124
00:09:11,380 --> 00:09:17,080
wisconsin and there i mean you know like it's it's easier than in illinois to get a gun but it's

125
00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:21,460
like people uh people who don't own guns in america like to actually you can just like walk

126
00:09:21,460 --> 00:09:25,440
into a store and you walk out with a gun it's like no no in most places this is not the case you

127
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:31,340
you walk into a store and you uh have a federal background check run on you and you probably can't

128
00:09:31,340 --> 00:09:37,940
leave with the gun like that same day um but like in uh in illinois you have to have a foid card

129
00:09:37,940 --> 00:09:43,200
firearm owner identification card and that like expires after a certain point like and it takes

130
00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,520
a while to get because it's the government so like they just take a long time to issue anything

131
00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,300
You got to, of course, pay for it.

132
00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,840
And it's, it's, I remember I was going to, I was going to buy a gun in Wisconsin once

133
00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,060
and I wanted to get just like a, another handgun.

134
00:09:57,680 --> 00:09:59,640
And I, I like had a great handgun picked out.

135
00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:00,540
I had exactly what I wanted.

136
00:10:00,860 --> 00:10:04,520
And then I go to the, you know, the cashier and I'm like, okay, you know, here's my ID.

137
00:10:04,700 --> 00:10:05,760
You know, yeah.

138
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:06,380
Oh, Illinois.

139
00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:07,440
Let you know, do you have your foot card?

140
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:07,640
Yep.

141
00:10:07,700 --> 00:10:07,920
Okay.

142
00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:08,260
Here it is.

143
00:10:08,300 --> 00:10:09,600
And this is the gun I want right here.

144
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:11,360
And the guy's like, oh no, I can't sell you.

145
00:10:11,460 --> 00:10:13,700
I can't sell you a handgun because you're an Illinois resident.

146
00:10:13,700 --> 00:10:18,700
i'm like oh but like but you can sell like what do you mean i can buy a handgun in illinois

147
00:10:18,700 --> 00:10:23,860
like but like he's like no i i can't sell you a handgun in wisconsin like what what can i buy he's

148
00:10:23,860 --> 00:10:29,440
like well you can buy any long gun i'm like so i can buy this semi-automatic 12-gauge shotgun

149
00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:35,480
this semi-automatic 12-gauge maxis shotgun which is what i ended up buying um he's like yeah that's

150
00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:40,940
fine but it's like so i like it just these laws are so stupid because it's like okay i can't buy

151
00:10:40,940 --> 00:10:45,320
a small pistol but i can literally buy a semi-automatic 12-gauge shotgun which will

152
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:51,260
leave multiple giant holes in you like that but it's like okay good great job government you you

153
00:10:51,260 --> 00:10:56,300
did it you know you kept you kept us safe by making the law-abiding people making their lives

154
00:10:56,300 --> 00:11:00,040
absolutely hell because it's not like criminals have any problems getting illegal guns you know

155
00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:05,600
it's just i digress but it's just that kind of stupidity just is so infuriating to me i think

156
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,560
the future is going to be like especially for us canadians is like once 3d printing gets just so

157
00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:12,900
good and you can just like press a button and have a weapon and like don't have to tell anyone

158
00:11:12,900 --> 00:11:18,840
about it then it's like i don't know i just i just kind of see that happening especially if

159
00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:23,520
governments keep on you know getting going down this like crazy path that they're going especially

160
00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:28,280
with all the uk madness and um i don't know it's a scary place out there so especially with like

161
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:33,280
you know bitcoiners who like are have been in bitcoin since like 2010 and you know you've been

162
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,540
like holding you know massing bitcoin and like preparing for the future and people i don't know

163
00:11:37,540 --> 00:11:42,780
I'm at this point now where it's like, I used to be like a huge prophet prophetizer of Bitcoin.

164
00:11:42,940 --> 00:11:44,200
I used to like go tell everyone about it.

165
00:11:44,260 --> 00:11:47,940
Now it's kind of like, maybe I should shut up and just like cute myself.

166
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,360
And because you see all those like kidnappings and stuff happening.

167
00:11:50,500 --> 00:11:50,920
And I don't know.

168
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:52,300
So many in France.

169
00:11:52,780 --> 00:11:55,320
So many kidnappings in France, weirdly.

170
00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:56,860
Like that seems to be the new place.

171
00:11:56,860 --> 00:12:01,140
Like if you want to, if you want to, if you want to kidnap somebody and take their cryptocurrency.

172
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,860
I would just target people who like in places where there's no like weapons are outlawed.

173
00:12:05,940 --> 00:12:07,380
It's like you have less chance of getting shot.

174
00:12:07,540 --> 00:12:13,180
yeah it's like you you if you want to do that to somebody in america like you like it's a you're

175
00:12:13,180 --> 00:12:18,000
rolling the dice that person has a guy like yeah like i you know it has like more than one gun like

176
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,580
there are you coming to my house you're going to be met with a lot and they're like they're like

177
00:12:21,580 --> 00:12:26,760
finally someone came into my house this is gonna be waiting for this i have literally been preparing

178
00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:32,180
for this like you have no idea what you just walked into um and now you know i get to well

179
00:12:32,180 --> 00:12:38,040
yeah it doesn't go well um don't want to get banned from youtube for saying uh saying stuff

180
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:43,700
about violence though so oh shit sorry no i'm just kidding i don't give a shit eventually it's gonna

181
00:12:43,700 --> 00:12:46,920
it's gonna happen um and that's why i'm so glad noster exists because we're live streaming this

182
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:52,600
on noster to right now 88 people which is nice um so shout out to everybody who is listening to

183
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:58,420
this live on noster on zap.stream i want to get into a bunch of stuff with you will uh because

184
00:12:58,420 --> 00:13:03,480
like there's a lot of stuff i want to talk about what you're building at uh at damas like what's

185
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,560
what's new over there i want to talk about honestly like maybe this is where we kind of

186
00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:12,680
keep rolling into like what's happening in the uk and how uh sort of the fiat clown world is

187
00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:19,220
doing a very good job of like making the case for why you would want to noster um and like not just

188
00:13:19,220 --> 00:13:25,100
in the uk obviously but they're just one of the most absurd examples right now uh and i mean maybe

189
00:13:25,100 --> 00:13:28,840
we maybe we start with uh start with that i also want to talk about like generally growing

190
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:35,040
noster um and and what people like at the individual level can do versus like as the

191
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,480
user level versus like what you think at the dev level needs to be done you know like is this a

192
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:44,320
is this a solution with a technical like or a technical solution or is this something that's

193
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:49,860
more of just like hey adoption takes time uh but maybe let's let's start okay first of all for

194
00:13:49,860 --> 00:13:55,080
anyone who doesn't know you jb55 will castron you created damas this is your third time on the show

195
00:13:55,080 --> 00:14:00,860
right i think i think so yeah yeah welcome back third time's the charm thank you um stoked to have

196
00:14:00,860 --> 00:14:08,160
you back i've enjoyed every one of our conversations both on on the air here and uh in person uh let

197
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,640
let's just because you brought it up let's talk about the uk a little bit so like

198
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:18,980
the the what is it's the online safety act is the uh the one and okay maybe we take a step back

199
00:14:18,980 --> 00:14:25,700
all of these like online safety things they all sound really like nice in theory where it's like

200
00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:31,480
well we just want to keep children safe like don't you want to keep children safe like don't like

201
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,160
because if you don't like like who's gonna be like no i want children to be in danger like you know

202
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:40,320
they they put out these these red herrings these false flag operations that make it sound like well

203
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,620
this is just about you know keeping children safe and yet there are some other unintended

204
00:14:44,620 --> 00:14:50,740
consequences but maybe they're actually totally intended but like how do you look at these these

205
00:14:50,740 --> 00:14:54,700
things as they're as they're playing out like i feel like this is going to keep accelerating

206
00:14:54,700 --> 00:15:00,260
uh in places where people don't push back and clearly in the uk there is not enough like actual

207
00:15:00,260 --> 00:15:05,280
pushback to this like it seems kind of insane that people aren't like i mean they're up in arms but

208
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:11,460
like not enough to make any difference apparently yeah it's and wasn't it like 80 of people just

209
00:15:11,460 --> 00:15:16,840
like we're like approved of the of the whole thing yeah um so i don't even know how if that's

210
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,920
true or if that's just like propaganda or the one thing i don't understand is why is this all

211
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,140
happening it all tends to happen at the same time i'm like i'm not like a super conspiratorial

212
00:15:25,140 --> 00:15:29,400
person but you know sometimes you just like look at how things have played out especially like

213
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,340
during the pandemic it's almost like they're like testing to see how the population would react to

214
00:15:33,340 --> 00:15:38,520
certain things and then you know and now they're like okay let's just try let's just push again

215
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,800
and see what happens and it's just that's what it feels like to me it feels like they're just

216
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:47,420
experimenting to see how people react as like a psyop um i don't know maybe it's not as coordinated

217
00:15:47,420 --> 00:15:51,520
as that maybe they're legitimately people are in just in the government and they're like worried

218
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,920
about online safety but i don't know it just it seems weird that it happens all at the same time

219
00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:01,540
and it's always like backed by corporate sponsors and um so obviously you know maybe the thing i

220
00:16:01,540 --> 00:16:05,120
think about is like follow the money like who is profiting from this like you know obviously having

221
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:10,640
control of a lot of systems like you know give certain people's advantages i don't know i think

222
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,260
i haven't done like the deep analysis of like why it's happening i just i'm just like a passive

223
00:16:14,260 --> 00:16:19,560
observer and i'm like okay that's interesting um and for me i just see it as like a positive thing

224
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,680
for me like in terms of things i'm building because i'm like showcasing this is why i'm

225
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,960
working on this stuff because we have to prepare for a future when this is going to actually going

226
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:32,760
to happen and it's like i didn't think it'd be happening this quickly um so i thought i would

227
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,420
have a lot more time to like build out and like get everything ready but if they want to fast track

228
00:16:36,420 --> 00:16:40,220
it then fine and then they'll start you know working even harder but it's uh it's kind of crazy

229
00:16:40,220 --> 00:16:46,700
if you're getting a lot of zaps on no stir for your fire memes or feet pics you should probably

230
00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:53,280
get the majority of those sats into your own self-custody by going to bitbox.swiss slash

231
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:58,880
walker and using the promo code walker for five percent off the fully open source easy to use

232
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:04,240
Bitcoin-only Bitbox02 hardware wallet. And while you're at it, get your Bitcoin off the exchange

233
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:09,980
and into your own custody as well. Bitcoin is ripping and soon your stack will be worth a heck

234
00:17:09,980 --> 00:17:15,260
of a lot more in fiat value than it is today. So now is the perfect time to make sure you have

235
00:17:15,260 --> 00:17:20,800
your security locked down with Bitbox. And I really cannot emphasize enough that the Bitbox02

236
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:25,720
is easy as hell to use. Whether you are brand new to Bitcoin and it's your very first time

237
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:30,780
setting up a hardware wallet so you're understandably a little bit nervous, or you are a well-seasoned

238
00:17:30,780 --> 00:17:36,260
psychopath. Again, it's Bitcoin only and fully open source. You can head to their GitHub and

239
00:17:36,260 --> 00:17:43,680
verify for yourself. No need to trust me or Bitbox. When you go to bitbox.swiss slash walker and use

240
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:49,960
the promo code walker, not only do you get 5% off, but you also help support this podcast. So thank

241
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:57,880
you it is insane and it's like you know i think uh like even orwell couldn't have conceived of how

242
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:02,580
dystopian things would get in the uk so quickly like that that's really like the sad thing it's

243
00:18:02,580 --> 00:18:07,620
just like and it's the absurdity of it too right it's just that like none of this stuff

244
00:18:07,620 --> 00:18:12,440
it's like nobody thought through it that much or i guess there's two sides to it either

245
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:17,320
nobody thought through it that much and genuinely are too stupid to realize all of the downstream

246
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:22,560
implications of these terrible policies that ultimately restrict individual liberties under

247
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,460
the guise of, you know, protecting children, which, yeah, we all want to keep the kids safe,

248
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:31,740
right? But like, yeah, there are, there are trade-offs in things. Or like, they literally

249
00:18:31,740 --> 00:18:36,180
know exactly what they're doing. They know that this is a, they're, you know, doing this in a

250
00:18:36,180 --> 00:18:41,120
deceitful way. And they know that it's really just a tool of, you know, totalitarianism to try and

251
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:46,040
restrict people's freedom of communication, freedom of expression. Like people are, I mean,

252
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,800
like the fact that you can just legitimately get arrested for a social media post in the uk

253
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:56,760
is just nuts like that just right on it they'll come to your door and like knock on your door and

254
00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,920
arrest you and i'm like i've seen videos like that for since like 10 years ago like they've

255
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:06,480
been doing that for a while it's kind of crazy you can't silently pray within like a certain

256
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:11,880
distance of uh of an abortion clinic which like and i think they literally i'm forgetting the

257
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,440
woman's name there was like a 70 year old like you know grandma who was literally just arrested for

258
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:21,400
this and like that's just it doesn't matter how you feel about the issue of abortion like that

259
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:26,640
that is that you know that does not matter it's not the point here the point is you should be able

260
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:32,240
to silently pray like where like that's not like you're not hurting anyone that's that's you know

261
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:37,040
part of like free expression but then it's like the uk just like doesn't really have that like

262
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,060
they they actually they actually don't they don't have uh something that's as you know

263
00:19:41,060 --> 00:19:46,100
uh that's you know like the constitution of the bill of rights it's not that uh to that extent

264
00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:50,200
and like they're they're paying the price for it and i do think the fact that like you're not an

265
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:57,160
when you're not an armed population the government feels a lot more free to come in and subjugate you

266
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,620
and to do ridiculous things like because there's no like what are you what are you going to do they're

267
00:20:01,620 --> 00:20:07,260
making knives illegal in the uk like there was a whole push to like only sell blunted knives did

268
00:20:07,260 --> 00:20:12,620
you see this it was like it was nuts because like because shockingly people are stabbing each other

269
00:20:12,620 --> 00:20:16,760
with knives because it turns out that even when you don't have guns people still find ways to kill

270
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:21,820
each other who would have thought but like i don't know it's just like it just i think you're right

271
00:20:21,820 --> 00:20:26,120
it just feels like they push more and more and more like what can we get away with what can we

272
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:30,300
get away with now but they're really making the case for why you would want a censorship resistant

273
00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:36,200
open protocol for communication so like at least there's that yeah and we have like this like idea

274
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,900
in software i guess not even software it's just like in general like engineering or maybe even

275
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:45,560
more general it's like murphy's law right if anything if you set up the the structure in ways

276
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,780
that it can fail it will fail just because inherently people who are not that smart get

277
00:20:50,780 --> 00:20:54,960
into these positions because those positions attract people who just like are not there for

278
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:59,700
like an intellectual reason they're there for like power or money or greed so and those types

279
00:20:59,700 --> 00:21:04,760
of people just don't tend to be like second order effect thinkers like i feel like some of the

280
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,960
smartest people i know when they especially there's a lot of bitcoiners too when i talked a

281
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:12,340
lot of bitcoiners and you'll be like oh if i make this change to this now to the let's say to the

282
00:21:12,340 --> 00:21:16,620
protocol what are the second order effects that are going to happen if i make this change and like

283
00:21:16,620 --> 00:21:20,400
the reason why it's so interesting i find to talk to bitcoiners because they think like two or four

284
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:25,100
or five or six ten steps down the road and they like no we can't change the block size because of

285
00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:29,100
xyz and all these implications and but the shit corners they're like they don't they don't think

286
00:21:29,100 --> 00:21:32,800
two orders down the line so they're just like let's just make the blocks bigger and everything

287
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:38,080
great um so i know i just see it the same way where they're they're it could be like you know

288
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:42,480
they're doing it for malicious reasons but it's it's probably more likely just they're not thinking

289
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:50,580
about the second order effects and um so yeah i don't know it's who knows i i think uh have you

290
00:21:50,580 --> 00:21:55,480
ever read the book the psychopath test by john ronson no it's a great book it's a pretty like

291
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,320
short book too if you want it's a enjoyable read i think i read it like a decade ago but it's uh

292
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:05,720
it's still very relevant basically it's like like one percent of the general population people so

293
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:10,420
not people in prison like people in prison this percentage is higher but like one percent of the

294
00:22:10,420 --> 00:22:15,620
general population are psychopaths like actual like clinical psychopaths it may be even a little

295
00:22:15,620 --> 00:22:20,740
bit like higher than that so one in a hundred people that you meet are is going to be a psychopath

296
00:22:20,740 --> 00:22:27,280
statistically like incapable of feeling empathy like literally can't can't do it can't put

297
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:34,380
themselves in your shoes and is just a narcissistic egomaniac who is also going to be really good at

298
00:22:34,380 --> 00:22:38,300
being charismatic and getting, you know, and probably pretty eloquent and good at getting

299
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:43,900
what they want. And those people tend to gravitate towards positions of power because it's all about

300
00:22:43,900 --> 00:22:50,500
self-aggrandizement, right? And so, I mean, I would, I don't know what the percentage of psychopaths in

301
00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:55,460
politics is like in high offices of politics, but I'm guessing it's higher than 1%. Like,

302
00:22:55,460 --> 00:22:58,580
I feel like it'd be a safe thing to bet that it's higher than gen pop.

303
00:22:58,840 --> 00:22:59,400
And so,

304
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:00,280
but then it's like,

305
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:00,980
you're right.

306
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,700
I think a lot of these people are just incredibly incompetent.

307
00:23:03,740 --> 00:23:07,960
So you've got this mix of like actually highly intelligent psychopaths and then

308
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,320
super just mid curve,

309
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:11,200
smooth brains.

310
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:12,780
And that's basically like,

311
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:24,839
and that government you know and they okay Then that not entirely fair And there are some bright spots of people who actually give a shit and are there because you know they want to change things and make them better for the next generation

312
00:23:25,199 --> 00:23:27,819
But those people are in the tiny, tiny minority, sadly.

313
00:23:28,339 --> 00:23:31,919
I'm grateful they exist, but they're outnumbered, you know?

314
00:23:32,619 --> 00:23:32,759
Yeah.

315
00:23:33,399 --> 00:23:38,619
Well, this is why I've always like somehow as Bitcoiners and as like people who are just

316
00:23:38,619 --> 00:23:40,819
like passive people, they're not, they don't crave power.

317
00:23:40,899 --> 00:23:42,259
They just want to like live peacefully.

318
00:23:42,259 --> 00:23:49,399
somehow i mean satoshi this is like satoshi genius he was able to like create the structure

319
00:23:49,399 --> 00:23:55,119
which fights against all of that power against all of that coercion and all of that like

320
00:23:55,119 --> 00:24:00,239
force and they just they did it in the most passive way possible just like writing code

321
00:24:00,239 --> 00:24:05,959
and just like putting it out there and and now like we're winning like it's kind of crazy and

322
00:24:05,959 --> 00:24:10,159
we're not even we don't have to do any violence like can you think of a more poetic and beautiful

323
00:24:10,159 --> 00:24:15,619
um thing to like that's actually unfolding it's just it's amazing like you just have to sit there

324
00:24:15,619 --> 00:24:21,339
and do nothing well like basically incentives drive human action into like proper you know

325
00:24:21,339 --> 00:24:27,299
into like healthy directions it's kind of crazy if you think about it it it really is like it's

326
00:24:27,299 --> 00:24:31,599
it's almost like wow like no way this would work right but then it's like it's working right right

327
00:24:31,599 --> 00:24:36,299
in front of our eyes like bitcoin is winning and that's not to say that they're like we don't need

328
00:24:36,299 --> 00:24:43,899
to remain ever vigilant and build out all of the kind of tangential solutions that are required to

329
00:24:43,899 --> 00:24:48,599
make sure that we can you know progress along that sovereignty spectrum as far as possible

330
00:24:48,599 --> 00:24:56,459
but like at at the at the core level like bitcoin is winning and that's that's an amazing and we did

331
00:24:56,459 --> 00:25:01,139
it without needing to drone strike you know a bunch of brown kids which is just amazing like

332
00:25:01,139 --> 00:25:07,959
it turns like wow what a feature this is crazy no drone strikes required they said it couldn't be

333
00:25:07,959 --> 00:25:12,119
done they said you had to drone strike the brown u.s military is like what what what do you mean

334
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:18,299
like hold on guys it's completely changing the game this is bullshit this is scary yeah no there's

335
00:25:18,299 --> 00:25:22,399
no way we should just drone strike a few brown kids just uh you know just to be safe just for

336
00:25:22,399 --> 00:25:30,339
good measure on bitcoin's behalf yeah yeah man it's it's nuts i'm curious too like uh how are you

337
00:25:30,339 --> 00:25:37,319
like okay how do you balance as you were building on Noster how do you balance kind of the like you

338
00:25:37,319 --> 00:25:43,939
know like fuck the state freedom tech side of this with with like hey I want to build a nice app with

339
00:25:43,939 --> 00:25:49,059
a with a pleasant user interface that allow that you know is encourages people to come and interact

340
00:25:49,059 --> 00:25:53,259
in a pro-social way or or like are those two actually like two sides of the same coin and like

341
00:25:53,259 --> 00:25:59,699
you know by getting more people on the network you achieve those other more like freedom-minded

342
00:25:59,699 --> 00:26:05,159
goals do you think about that at all yeah i don't think about it enough i think i definitely like

343
00:26:05,159 --> 00:26:10,999
99 think of like ways to fuck the state and to fuck people who are assholes like so that's why

344
00:26:10,999 --> 00:26:15,699
i sometimes i like it's kind of my flaw and like i probably should focus more time on like

345
00:26:15,699 --> 00:26:20,959
um but that's why my team is really good like i have uh you know we've got designer roberto's a

346
00:26:20,959 --> 00:26:26,499
great designer um yeah i got daniel we're helping me with ios we have a whole like note deck team

347
00:26:26,499 --> 00:26:32,399
um we got Vanessa uh Terry like so many people are helping me now and like and they they care

348
00:26:32,399 --> 00:26:36,759
about those things especially Eric Eric is really good he's on the iOS team he basically just makes

349
00:26:36,759 --> 00:26:41,639
it pretty and make it user-friendly so I'm I'm just like I don't know if I didn't have those guys

350
00:26:41,639 --> 00:26:47,879
I feel like I would just uh be building like a lightning node into the into the into the which

351
00:26:47,879 --> 00:26:52,619
I'm doing on note tag which I have a lightning node in there now um but yeah so talk about that

352
00:26:52,619 --> 00:26:58,179
a little bit like give us an update on like where you're at with uh with with note deck what's uh

353
00:26:58,179 --> 00:27:04,319
what's happened recently with damas like what have you guys been focusing on yeah i mean i saw

354
00:27:04,319 --> 00:27:08,059
everyone having too much fun with all the other stuff so i'm like well i want i want to have fun

355
00:27:08,059 --> 00:27:11,959
too um and i because i always i always believe that though i always believe that the other stuff

356
00:27:11,959 --> 00:27:16,379
is what's going to really convince the a large if anything like i don't think we're just going to

357
00:27:16,379 --> 00:27:20,419
convince them on a new social media experience because everyone's already oversaturated with

358
00:27:20,419 --> 00:27:24,439
social media and and everyone's already on twitter and other places so the only thing that we're

359
00:27:24,439 --> 00:27:28,999
actually that's going to work is that we attract like hey you can use all these other software that

360
00:27:28,999 --> 00:27:32,459
all work together and like that's a pretty that would be something you could use outside of just

361
00:27:32,459 --> 00:27:38,059
the social media you can use case um so you know i built domus ios and it was great for like a

362
00:27:38,059 --> 00:27:42,199
twitter-like clone but you know it's not like i'm going to start loading more and more features into

363
00:27:42,199 --> 00:27:46,539
that because it's i'm just trying to keep that simple try to keep easy to use um so just being

364
00:27:46,539 --> 00:27:51,599
able to have a platform where we can build new ideas quickly without being also being uh censored

365
00:27:51,599 --> 00:27:56,979
by the app store censored by apple yeah apple and governments and stuff i needed a new platform to

366
00:27:56,979 --> 00:28:03,219
be able to build my ideas in a in a free way so um yeah so that's what note tech is it's a new

367
00:28:03,219 --> 00:28:07,299
multi multi-platform client i've been working on for like three years now not like full-time three

368
00:28:07,299 --> 00:28:12,999
years but probably more heavily in the past year um and one of the biggest focuses i've been working

369
00:28:12,999 --> 00:28:15,999
on the past four months is getting the Android version working.

370
00:28:16,679 --> 00:28:18,839
So I don't want to spoil it.

371
00:28:18,899 --> 00:28:21,119
And I'm technically under contract, so I can't say when.

372
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,299
But I would say if you want to learn more,

373
00:28:23,419 --> 00:28:26,119
go to Bitcoin Asia at the end of the month.

374
00:28:26,959 --> 00:28:29,899
And you might hear an interesting announcement from me about that.

375
00:28:30,039 --> 00:28:33,019
But other than that, yeah, once we have that launch,

376
00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:33,799
it's going to be amazing.

377
00:28:33,899 --> 00:28:36,879
Then we can launch all of our ideas off that platform.

378
00:28:37,059 --> 00:28:40,319
And it's going to be completely censorship resistant.

379
00:28:40,419 --> 00:28:42,499
I don't have to worry about fucking Apple telling me I can't do shit,

380
00:28:42,499 --> 00:28:46,779
which is like literally as a big corner it's the most infuriating thing i think it might this is

381
00:28:46,779 --> 00:28:50,039
like a childhood trauma thing i think i had when my parents would just always try to tell me to get

382
00:28:50,039 --> 00:28:54,119
off my computer for just spending too much time on your computer and i and i have like this like

383
00:28:54,119 --> 00:28:58,619
really anti like authoritarian thing i think it was driven by that like trauma experience as a kid

384
00:28:58,619 --> 00:29:02,799
just like always being told to get off my computer when i was like that's all i want to do um so yeah

385
00:29:02,799 --> 00:29:06,879
so when apple's telling me did not that i can't do something i'm like i want to burn you to the

386
00:29:06,879 --> 00:29:12,479
ground now like my my number one focus is to like build around you so can you can you give a for

387
00:29:12,479 --> 00:29:14,839
for folks that, and if they want a deeper dive,

388
00:29:14,839 --> 00:29:18,359
like I think we discussed the various things that Apple has done to make your

389
00:29:18,359 --> 00:29:20,939
life a pain in the ass in the past two times you've been on,

390
00:29:20,979 --> 00:29:22,039
but can you give kind of like the,

391
00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:26,699
the brief history of the headaches of dealing with, with Apple's absurdity?

392
00:29:28,699 --> 00:29:31,019
Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's just like,

393
00:29:31,099 --> 00:29:35,799
it's kind of like arguing with your girlfriend and it's like,

394
00:29:35,819 --> 00:29:39,019
you know, it's not a logical argument and it's just like an emotional thing.

395
00:29:39,039 --> 00:29:39,659
And you're like,

396
00:29:39,659 --> 00:29:42,119
you realize you can't make like logical arguments to like,

397
00:29:42,399 --> 00:29:44,359
and this is like what it's like talking to a reviewer at Apple.

398
00:29:44,859 --> 00:29:45,419
It's like,

399
00:29:45,599 --> 00:29:46,019
I'm like,

400
00:29:46,099 --> 00:29:46,439
they're like,

401
00:29:46,479 --> 00:29:47,479
you violated this guideline.

402
00:29:47,479 --> 00:29:48,159
And I'm like,

403
00:29:48,419 --> 00:29:48,859
uh,

404
00:29:48,899 --> 00:29:49,139
no,

405
00:29:49,199 --> 00:29:51,639
I didn't because this guideline says that,

406
00:29:51,639 --> 00:29:52,299
um,

407
00:29:52,719 --> 00:29:52,999
this,

408
00:29:53,319 --> 00:29:56,619
I can't do it if it's being used to buy digital stuff.

409
00:29:56,679 --> 00:29:56,859
I'm like,

410
00:29:56,879 --> 00:29:57,019
well,

411
00:29:57,139 --> 00:29:58,539
as app is not buying digital things,

412
00:29:58,539 --> 00:29:58,959
it's just,

413
00:29:59,079 --> 00:29:59,359
you're,

414
00:29:59,719 --> 00:30:00,759
you're giving someone a tip.

415
00:30:01,099 --> 00:30:01,619
And they're like,

416
00:30:01,659 --> 00:30:01,779
no,

417
00:30:01,779 --> 00:30:02,339
you're still violating.

418
00:30:02,439 --> 00:30:02,639
I'm like,

419
00:30:02,679 --> 00:30:02,779
no,

420
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:03,179
I'm not.

421
00:30:04,319 --> 00:30:05,079
It's just like,

422
00:30:05,099 --> 00:30:06,839
you can't even argue with them in a reasonable way.

423
00:30:07,599 --> 00:30:07,919
Um,

424
00:30:07,959 --> 00:30:08,359
I don't know.

425
00:30:08,439 --> 00:30:09,439
So that was the first thing.

426
00:30:09,439 --> 00:30:10,979
So they told us they would remove us from the app store.

427
00:30:11,079 --> 00:30:12,799
That was in like a couple of years ago.

428
00:30:14,179 --> 00:30:15,899
And so, yeah, we had to remove the zap button.

429
00:30:16,199 --> 00:30:18,899
We added a backdoor so you could still turn it on because that's how much I hate Apple.

430
00:30:18,999 --> 00:30:21,419
I don't care if they found out I got banned.

431
00:30:21,479 --> 00:30:22,639
I still wanted people to try the zaps.

432
00:30:23,539 --> 00:30:29,819
And then there's a whole, you know, the Epic Games lawsuit, which, you know, we got some ground back.

433
00:30:29,899 --> 00:30:34,639
You're able to at least link to outside payment methods, which we still haven't done in Damas, which we should probably do.

434
00:30:34,719 --> 00:30:39,039
Like right now, if you sign up for Lightning within Damas iOS, we don't link out.

435
00:30:39,039 --> 00:30:44,259
but now we can so we should probably add that um so i'm like okay well maybe now that they've been

436
00:30:44,259 --> 00:30:49,239
sued and they've been like caught in contempt of court and all this horrible shit uh maybe i can

437
00:30:49,239 --> 00:30:53,139
just like try turning it on again and i so we did and it like it got re-enabled for like two months

438
00:30:53,139 --> 00:30:57,699
i'm like oh cool maybe that maybe for some reason i can have it again but no like another iteration

439
00:30:57,699 --> 00:31:00,819
of the review they're like no you have to remove it again so it's just like this constant back and

440
00:31:00,819 --> 00:31:06,319
forth of just um and it's really hard to like plan to build new features around zaps because it's

441
00:31:06,319 --> 00:31:10,839
like you built all this code up and now we have to like turn it off and like turn it on again it's

442
00:31:10,839 --> 00:31:16,959
just very disruptive and i don't know we're a small team like i don't have full time to just

443
00:31:16,959 --> 00:31:21,739
like argue with a fucking reviewer and it's just like i don't know there's something there's

444
00:31:21,739 --> 00:31:26,959
something about it that's just feels so wrong it's like you're not my fucking you're not my

445
00:31:26,959 --> 00:31:30,639
parent or something you know it's like why are you telling me this when it's completely

446
00:31:30,639 --> 00:31:34,399
inconsequential you're a trillion dollar company and you're giving me a hard time about something

447
00:31:34,399 --> 00:31:38,899
that's not going to have any impact on your bottom line like at all so i don't know semantics where

448
00:31:38,899 --> 00:31:44,179
you're wrong like you're you're you're very easily provably wrong in your like classification of these

449
00:31:44,179 --> 00:31:48,679
like they're it's not buying any a digital good like it it literally just doesn't violate the

450
00:31:48,679 --> 00:31:52,839
policy like the policy aside like we can talk about how stupid that is but it doesn't violate

451
00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:58,899
it like that was what was always just like blowing my mind is like this is just so painfully stupid

452
00:31:58,899 --> 00:32:05,259
it made me realize that the guidelines aren't really real they're really just like they're there

453
00:32:05,259 --> 00:32:10,799
and and it doesn't matter if you follow them or not they will strong arm you into removing your

454
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:13,839
app and doing whatever they want it's just because because like they don't it's not like it's a

455
00:32:13,839 --> 00:32:19,779
contract you know it's just it's just a guideline and they they can change at any moment and so i

456
00:32:19,779 --> 00:32:25,359
don't know well i mean it's it's honestly it's it's very similar uh like to go on the other side

457
00:32:25,359 --> 00:32:30,399
of this it's very similar to like how youtube handles things when it comes to content moderation

458
00:32:30,399 --> 00:32:35,539
like you saw people like you know bdc sessions getting de-platformed thankfully you know after

459
00:32:35,539 --> 00:32:39,919
a massive public uproar he was put back on but like the fact that he was even flagged in the first

460
00:32:39,919 --> 00:32:44,759
place before you know violating community guidelines which are just kind of like like

461
00:32:44,759 --> 00:32:50,539
what did i violate some stuff you just did bad stuff and you're out you know and like

462
00:32:50,539 --> 00:32:55,659
uh, simply Bitcoin, same thing happened to them. Like, sure. It'll like probably happened to me at

463
00:32:55,659 --> 00:32:59,759
some point, except I'll probably actually violate the community guidelines. Um, but you know,

464
00:32:59,759 --> 00:33:02,679
that's okay. We have, we have no stores of backup, but it's the same thing where it's like,

465
00:33:02,679 --> 00:33:08,959
you have these, these, I mean, essentially like these tech monopolies that know that they can get

466
00:33:08,959 --> 00:33:13,859
away with doing whatever they want because you don't have any other option. Like you, you don't

467
00:33:13,859 --> 00:33:18,999
want on one side, like, you know, okay. Like you want to distribute through Apple, like, great.

468
00:33:18,999 --> 00:33:22,499
You don't play by our rules, which will change, but you don't want to distribute.

469
00:33:22,619 --> 00:33:26,399
Okay, like just say goodbye to like the vast, you know, over half the market.

470
00:33:26,499 --> 00:33:27,399
Like just say goodbye to it.

471
00:33:27,599 --> 00:33:29,739
Like you don't have access to it now.

472
00:33:30,079 --> 00:33:30,759
And same thing with YouTube.

473
00:33:30,819 --> 00:33:34,659
It's like, oh, you want to be top of the funnel for people learning about Bitcoin and Noster?

474
00:33:35,259 --> 00:33:40,079
Like, okay, you know, play by our rules because otherwise we'll, you know, we'll ban you, you bad little boy.

475
00:33:41,099 --> 00:33:42,559
But I don't know.

476
00:33:43,839 --> 00:33:44,639
It's frustrating.

477
00:33:44,739 --> 00:33:46,519
So I'm sorry for making you relive it.

478
00:33:46,519 --> 00:33:54,099
But so Zaps, because I mean, I have like the, I remember you sent me like the workaround

479
00:33:54,099 --> 00:33:56,219
like very early on after they banned it.

480
00:33:56,239 --> 00:33:56,839
And I was like, oh, sweet.

481
00:33:56,899 --> 00:33:57,079
Okay.

482
00:33:57,419 --> 00:33:59,059
Not going to say anything about this, but okay.

483
00:33:59,059 --> 00:33:59,879
It's working again.

484
00:34:00,379 --> 00:34:04,579
I mean, do you think that they're going to actually make any sort of long-term policy

485
00:34:04,579 --> 00:34:04,939
change?

486
00:34:04,939 --> 00:34:07,139
Or do you think this is just a headache you're going to keep having to deal with?

487
00:34:07,699 --> 00:34:09,799
So right now we can't update Domus.

488
00:34:10,299 --> 00:34:15,559
So they haven't told us they're going to remove the app like last time, but they said

489
00:34:15,559 --> 00:34:17,759
that basically until we remove the zap button,

490
00:34:17,819 --> 00:34:19,919
again, we can't push updates,

491
00:34:20,039 --> 00:34:21,519
which is really frustrating for our users.

492
00:34:22,419 --> 00:34:23,559
So I'm at the point now where it's like,

493
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:25,419
there's a lot of people telling me

494
00:34:25,419 --> 00:34:27,219
that the workaround is to just do what Primal did,

495
00:34:27,359 --> 00:34:29,539
which is something I'm going to have to consider,

496
00:34:29,779 --> 00:34:32,799
which is basically, I mean, a lot of people,

497
00:34:32,879 --> 00:34:33,459
this is a theory.

498
00:34:33,599 --> 00:34:36,039
They think that once we add an in-app purchase

499
00:34:36,039 --> 00:34:37,699
where you can buy sats,

500
00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:39,619
then basically all those other guidelines,

501
00:34:39,619 --> 00:34:40,739
they don't really apply anymore

502
00:34:40,739 --> 00:34:42,979
because I think the way that Apple looks at it

503
00:34:42,979 --> 00:34:44,619
is that it's like an in-app purchase.

504
00:34:44,619 --> 00:34:46,799
It's like it's an in-game currency they're purchasing.

505
00:34:46,919 --> 00:34:49,459
And all those apps you send over the app are like an in-game currency.

506
00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:50,579
I think that's how they think about it.

507
00:34:50,599 --> 00:34:51,219
They don't really think about it.

508
00:34:51,219 --> 00:34:53,039
So you pay for them once when you buy them.

509
00:34:53,099 --> 00:34:54,519
You pay your haircut to Apple.

510
00:34:54,659 --> 00:34:56,419
And then it's like, OK, we don't care now.

511
00:34:56,939 --> 00:34:58,259
I think that's how it works.

512
00:34:58,339 --> 00:35:00,019
So we're probably going to do that.

513
00:35:00,019 --> 00:35:06,319
The only tricky thing is, is that, you know, we've always prided ourselves on being able to, like, use the app anywhere in the world.

514
00:35:06,439 --> 00:35:10,759
So I just I'm not I'm never going to do something if it, like, restricts our wallet to, like, a specific locale.

515
00:35:11,139 --> 00:35:12,019
But I think we can do it.

516
00:35:12,039 --> 00:35:13,559
Like, I'm literally I have a lightning node.

517
00:35:13,559 --> 00:35:15,979
I could just set up an app purchase to like get sats out of my node.

518
00:35:15,979 --> 00:35:18,019
And it's like a super dubious legally.

519
00:35:18,019 --> 00:35:19,799
And because I become like an exchange and stuff,

520
00:35:19,799 --> 00:35:20,739
but I might just do it anyway.

521
00:35:20,739 --> 00:35:21,299
Cause just to,

522
00:35:21,459 --> 00:35:21,819
just to,

523
00:35:21,819 --> 00:35:22,159
you know,

524
00:35:22,559 --> 00:35:23,259
cause I feel like,

525
00:35:23,379 --> 00:35:24,439
you know,

526
00:35:24,439 --> 00:35:25,119
you just ask,

527
00:35:25,219 --> 00:35:25,299
you,

528
00:35:25,499 --> 00:35:26,719
you'd ask for forgiveness later.

529
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:27,239
Like I always,

530
00:35:27,319 --> 00:35:28,419
that was always been my thing in life.

531
00:35:28,439 --> 00:35:30,199
Just do something that's like technically not,

532
00:35:30,339 --> 00:35:31,039
you know,

533
00:35:31,059 --> 00:35:32,459
and as long as no one bothers you about it,

534
00:35:32,459 --> 00:35:32,659
then,

535
00:35:33,019 --> 00:35:33,859
and if they do bother about it,

536
00:35:33,859 --> 00:35:34,719
then maybe it was okay.

537
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:35,719
I'll turn it off or like,

538
00:35:35,759 --> 00:35:36,039
okay,

539
00:35:36,039 --> 00:35:36,879
maybe I'll get my lawyer,

540
00:35:37,139 --> 00:35:38,659
but just do stuff.

541
00:35:38,659 --> 00:35:40,799
Like people are so afraid of just like doing shit.

542
00:35:40,799 --> 00:35:43,899
Like people are so busy with their own lives and worried about their own

543
00:35:43,899 --> 00:35:44,219
life.

544
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:44,619
It's like,

545
00:35:44,859 --> 00:35:46,699
they don't give a shit if you're doing this weird thing over here,

546
00:35:46,819 --> 00:35:47,959
maybe at a certain point,

547
00:35:47,979 --> 00:35:48,659
they'll start bugging you.

548
00:35:48,699 --> 00:35:49,799
But I don't know.

549
00:35:49,859 --> 00:35:51,059
I always say if I get thrown in jail,

550
00:35:51,059 --> 00:35:52,299
like that's just better PR for,

551
00:35:52,379 --> 00:35:53,139
for Nasser anyway.

552
00:35:53,339 --> 00:35:53,699
So yeah,

553
00:35:53,699 --> 00:35:55,959
like I hope you don't have to like,

554
00:35:55,999 --> 00:35:56,159
you know,

555
00:35:56,179 --> 00:35:59,019
like ideally that'd be nice for you not to end up in jail,

556
00:35:59,019 --> 00:35:59,639
but it would,

557
00:35:59,699 --> 00:36:00,559
you know,

558
00:36:00,559 --> 00:36:01,679
certainly add to your street cred.

559
00:36:02,419 --> 00:36:02,739
Well,

560
00:36:02,739 --> 00:36:03,079
I'm just like,

561
00:36:03,099 --> 00:36:03,799
I'm going to Hong Kong.

562
00:36:03,859 --> 00:36:04,379
My whole team's like,

563
00:36:04,399 --> 00:36:04,519
no,

564
00:36:04,559 --> 00:36:04,959
you can't go,

565
00:36:05,259 --> 00:36:05,939
can't go to Hong Kong.

566
00:36:06,039 --> 00:36:07,159
You're going to be like captured.

567
00:36:07,279 --> 00:36:07,619
I'm like,

568
00:36:07,619 --> 00:36:08,439
I don't know.

569
00:36:08,639 --> 00:36:10,579
Well, I mean, kind of, again, it'd be good for our app.

570
00:36:10,739 --> 00:36:15,319
Like, are you guys still, uh, you guys still banned in, uh, banned in China on the app store?

571
00:36:15,399 --> 00:36:16,059
Mainland China.

572
00:36:16,259 --> 00:36:16,619
Mainland.

573
00:36:16,759 --> 00:36:16,939
Yeah.

574
00:36:17,319 --> 00:36:21,279
And I think it's one of our, still our most downloaded regions, like to this day for that

575
00:36:21,279 --> 00:36:23,059
first day, which is crazy.

576
00:36:23,059 --> 00:36:26,919
Like we had more downloads in China that one day than we've like our total downloads, like

577
00:36:26,919 --> 00:36:28,079
for its entire history.

578
00:36:28,079 --> 00:36:30,339
So it's, it makes sense that China was like freaked out.

579
00:36:30,339 --> 00:36:30,579
Right.

580
00:36:30,899 --> 00:36:33,839
I think that's my, that's my theory is that it sent off some internal flag within their

581
00:36:33,839 --> 00:36:34,099
system.

582
00:36:34,099 --> 00:36:36,039
That's like, why is this getting so many downloads?

583
00:36:36,039 --> 00:36:41,619
um dang yeah yeah and then like a month later they banned all of our the bootstrap relays in

584
00:36:41,619 --> 00:36:47,159
the app so like they had a guy in like in the ccp the uh cyber division like looking into nostor and

585
00:36:47,159 --> 00:36:52,159
blocking stuff so that's crazy those those are crazy times it's it's it's wild like it wasn't

586
00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:57,099
that long like it feels like a long time ago but it wasn't that long ago you know i remember all

587
00:36:57,099 --> 00:37:00,579
this going down and just being like damn that's feels like ancient history now oh my god it was

588
00:37:00,579 --> 00:37:07,599
like two or three years ago i know it's it's crazy how uh time moves differently in the in the in the

589
00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:12,039
the noster noster world i'm still saying noster by the way i'm just i'm not you know you're not

590
00:37:12,039 --> 00:37:18,419
going to break me that habit like it's i'll die on this hill yeah noster noster whatever yeah

591
00:37:18,419 --> 00:37:26,819
whatever works either way well so like okay um so what do you think as far as like i mean i've seen

592
00:37:26,819 --> 00:37:32,159
like people talk about the growth on those are kind of like stagnating a little bit like not

593
00:37:32,159 --> 00:37:37,639
seeing as many inflows i think we've also historically seen larger inflows around mass

594
00:37:37,639 --> 00:37:43,499
censorship events like that's been a you know it's people running away from something versus

595
00:37:43,499 --> 00:37:49,119
like running towards something it's like they're looking for any option um do you think that

596
00:37:49,119 --> 00:37:54,159
continues to be the case that we like those are we like those are just always going to be the

597
00:37:54,159 --> 00:38:01,039
biggest drivers or do you think like the hey we have a ton of really cool you know micro apps and

598
00:38:01,039 --> 00:38:04,539
social media clients and all other things and tools for creators like that's going to have people just

599
00:38:04,539 --> 00:38:08,799
running towards it because like oh look it's a better option or is there i mean is there some

600
00:38:08,799 --> 00:38:13,219
blend of that where like yeah it's a little bit of both and it's just a really kind of slow and

601
00:38:13,219 --> 00:38:17,199
steady grind because we've never had a open protocol for communication like this before

602
00:38:17,199 --> 00:38:23,679
i think it's gonna be a combination of a slow process but also like spikiness like spikes of

603
00:38:23,679 --> 00:38:25,619
certain things getting built on it.

604
00:38:25,699 --> 00:38:27,919
So one example was BitChat that Jack's working on.

605
00:38:28,459 --> 00:38:31,379
And he's going to add like NIP17 DMs,

606
00:38:31,539 --> 00:38:34,219
a way of like sending DMs via BitChat.

607
00:38:35,059 --> 00:38:37,179
Or like, so if your friend's not nearby,

608
00:38:37,359 --> 00:38:39,699
you can still use Noster as like a way to like,

609
00:38:39,979 --> 00:38:41,819
to get the message out, even if they're not nearby.

610
00:38:42,379 --> 00:38:44,479
So things like that, like if you get these apps

611
00:38:44,479 --> 00:38:46,179
that just go viral every now and then,

612
00:38:46,679 --> 00:38:47,939
it's not like a traditional startup

613
00:38:47,939 --> 00:38:49,859
where it's like it goes viral and then maybe it dies

614
00:38:49,859 --> 00:38:51,319
and then everyone forgets about it.

615
00:38:51,459 --> 00:38:52,999
It's like, if it goes viral,

616
00:38:52,999 --> 00:38:57,959
it's like everyone the whole network kind of grows and gets kind of a a burst of energy so it's a

617
00:38:57,959 --> 00:39:01,719
little bit different than just a typical startup so maybe it's that's that's what's gonna happen

618
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:07,159
um but maybe yeah it could just be like this forever who knows like for me it's like i'm i'm

619
00:39:07,159 --> 00:39:13,399
happy like i i i'm happy i spend most of my time on nostr um i i mean i don't know it's

620
00:39:13,399 --> 00:39:17,559
i don't yeah it's hard like i think the biggest issue that we're having at

621
00:39:17,559 --> 00:39:22,619
domus right now is i mean the number one feedback we get is that people can't find

622
00:39:22,619 --> 00:39:26,859
their crowd right that there's like oh it's just a bunch of bitcoiners um so building like community

623
00:39:26,859 --> 00:39:31,759
tools is like has been like kind of the big focus last past year among like a lot of developers on

624
00:39:31,759 --> 00:39:39,319
even jack's team the other stuff with chorus um you know there's flotilla by huddle bod um we got

625
00:39:39,319 --> 00:39:46,619
chad chatter whatever chad chad wow sorry uh yeah um i've but there's so yes more solutions like

626
00:39:46,619 --> 00:39:52,179
that could could help but it's one of those things that it's uh who knows how history is

627
00:39:52,179 --> 00:39:57,199
my biggest frustration is like i tend to not get too upset over things that i don't have any control

628
00:39:57,199 --> 00:40:02,239
over i mean i do have some control over like making my app more popular and more and usable

629
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:06,319
and get more people in but it kind of feels like it's out of my hands i feel like it's just gonna

630
00:40:06,319 --> 00:40:09,179
be some world event that's gonna bring a lot of people in i just and i'm just trying to make sure

631
00:40:09,179 --> 00:40:13,179
like i have the best app experience possible um just so people stick every time they come over

632
00:40:13,179 --> 00:40:15,539
but that's all I can really do. And that's all I really focus on.

633
00:40:16,059 --> 00:40:19,399
I know you guys recently, you, you implemented the, uh, the follow packs,

634
00:40:19,399 --> 00:40:23,439
which I think is like a, a, a, a big, uh, you know, a big thing.

635
00:40:23,439 --> 00:40:26,539
And I'm not sure, I don't know how it worked in the backend, but did you,

636
00:40:27,039 --> 00:40:31,119
do you pull that from what Cali, uh, built or did you guys just build your own

637
00:40:31,119 --> 00:40:32,939
version of that? Or how did that, how did that work?

638
00:40:33,259 --> 00:40:35,599
No, this is the beautiful thing about Noster, right? So,

639
00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:37,779
and this is what I'm talking about these apps that can go viral.

640
00:40:37,779 --> 00:40:39,679
Like in some sense it went viral on Noster,

641
00:40:39,779 --> 00:40:43,159
whatever that level of activity means on Noster. But, um,

642
00:40:43,179 --> 00:40:46,219
Everyone immediately recognized that that's a good idea that we need.

643
00:40:47,179 --> 00:40:49,059
It helps onboarding and all these things.

644
00:40:49,419 --> 00:40:51,599
So that website was just generating that data.

645
00:40:52,139 --> 00:40:54,159
So my app could just see that data on the network,

646
00:40:54,299 --> 00:40:55,999
and then I can just implement a UI for that data.

647
00:40:56,199 --> 00:40:57,959
So this is the power of Nostra,

648
00:40:58,039 --> 00:41:00,639
where viral apps can generate new forms of data.

649
00:41:00,779 --> 00:41:02,539
Other apps can consume that form of data.

650
00:41:02,539 --> 00:41:06,959
And that is the thing that makes Nostra so different from other web apps.

651
00:41:07,019 --> 00:41:09,039
Because web apps, it's not like you build a web app,

652
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:10,059
and you generate data,

653
00:41:10,119 --> 00:41:11,619
and then other web apps start using your data.

654
00:41:11,759 --> 00:41:12,579
It's like, not really.

655
00:41:12,579 --> 00:41:17,459
like they're pretty isolated the websites whereas nostr is like no like we actually have apps that

656
00:41:17,459 --> 00:41:22,079
can interoperate um and this is where that is the true power of nostr and like that's why i think

657
00:41:22,079 --> 00:41:25,319
why we're we're building all this other stuff and this is what's going to get hopefully get people

658
00:41:25,319 --> 00:41:29,419
excited but maybe it's too technical maybe it's too nerdy i know a lot of the devs like that idea

659
00:41:29,419 --> 00:41:34,179
it's just we need to to see it play out a bit a bit more well i mean i think i think it's for

660
00:41:34,179 --> 00:41:40,319
folks that aren't familiar it's uh it's following dot space is what uh what cali built out and i

661
00:41:40,319 --> 00:41:45,199
I created a podcaster pack on there naturally, you know, just stay in, just trying to stay in my lane.

662
00:41:45,939 --> 00:41:52,899
But like, I think that that, I think you're exactly right that that interoperability piece and that ability to, to leverage what other people build.

663
00:41:52,959 --> 00:41:54,519
I mean, that's the beauty of open source, right?

664
00:41:54,919 --> 00:41:58,699
Is that you, you have the ability to come like, yes, somebody else built something.

665
00:41:58,779 --> 00:41:59,299
Oh, great.

666
00:41:59,319 --> 00:42:00,979
You can just, you can use what they built.

667
00:42:00,979 --> 00:42:06,299
But even over and above that on Noster, it's like, oh, it's not just, you can like use the code that they built.

668
00:42:06,299 --> 00:42:10,899
Like you can use the data that they're generating and just, and just pull that in and surface

669
00:42:10,899 --> 00:42:14,279
it in your app and make your, make your app better and create.

670
00:42:14,399 --> 00:42:17,139
Now it's like, you know, I've seen multiple Noster clients that have implemented follow

671
00:42:17,139 --> 00:42:17,459
packs.

672
00:42:17,479 --> 00:42:19,319
And so it's like, wow, that's great.

673
00:42:19,319 --> 00:42:21,499
Like, like more, you know, more of that.

674
00:42:21,519 --> 00:42:23,199
And I think that's like, that's such a strength.

675
00:42:23,379 --> 00:42:28,719
You don't have that in the siloed, uh, you know, world that we operate in today.

676
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,499
Like you, like that's a, it's a feature of, of Noster.

677
00:42:32,179 --> 00:42:33,379
And, and there's a reason, right?

678
00:42:33,379 --> 00:42:35,159
Like the web was not designed.

679
00:42:35,159 --> 00:42:39,439
like the things they were protocolizing was simply ways to like talk to a server like that's

680
00:42:39,439 --> 00:42:43,359
what their focus was like i have some documents on a server and i'm just going to pull it down

681
00:42:43,359 --> 00:42:48,359
from that specific server the genius about nostr is that it made the data model and it made the

682
00:42:48,359 --> 00:42:53,819
database model into the protocol um so like there's another example of that is like bitcoin i guess

683
00:42:53,819 --> 00:42:58,259
is another example of this where it's like the data model is a part of the protocol like transactions

684
00:42:58,259 --> 00:43:03,799
the ledger the database um and that's what gives it this insane like power and like and the fact

685
00:43:03,799 --> 00:43:05,299
that can replicate across the entire planet.

686
00:43:05,939 --> 00:43:08,199
So Nostra is just doing that for application data.

687
00:43:08,639 --> 00:43:10,539
So instead of like monetary ledger data,

688
00:43:10,619 --> 00:43:11,919
it's doing it for like any type of data

689
00:43:11,919 --> 00:43:13,439
your application might want to generate.

690
00:43:14,359 --> 00:43:15,259
It's not perfect.

691
00:43:15,379 --> 00:43:16,839
Like we don't have like perfect,

692
00:43:16,919 --> 00:43:18,979
like peer to peer global replicatability

693
00:43:18,979 --> 00:43:20,459
of like you have in Bitcoin,

694
00:43:20,579 --> 00:43:21,179
but we don't really,

695
00:43:21,259 --> 00:43:22,759
I think that would actually be an anti feature

696
00:43:22,759 --> 00:43:26,079
because I don't want your dick pics spam

697
00:43:26,079 --> 00:43:27,679
like getting onto my fucking,

698
00:43:28,159 --> 00:43:30,199
my client for if I don't want to see that, right?

699
00:43:30,199 --> 00:43:31,659
So having this isolated,

700
00:43:31,659 --> 00:43:36,959
still connected but isolated in different patches like that's a really cool way to design a protocol

701
00:43:36,959 --> 00:43:41,179
i think it's so funny because you know so many of the shit coin scammers it's like you know what if

702
00:43:41,179 --> 00:43:46,819
we put social media on the blockchain and it's like you don't like that like like you just don't

703
00:43:46,819 --> 00:43:51,759
need to that's just a stupid thing you're just you're just trying to raise like vc money to then

704
00:43:51,759 --> 00:43:57,019
go dump your token uh as soon as you know you've you've got retail uh hooked and just got them but

705
00:43:57,019 --> 00:43:58,039
It's like, you don't want that.

706
00:43:58,139 --> 00:44:01,199
You don't need a global state for that

707
00:44:01,199 --> 00:44:05,059
that is replicated across every single node in the network.

708
00:44:05,199 --> 00:44:06,859
It's just not necessary.

709
00:44:07,479 --> 00:44:09,999
But shitcoin scammer is going to shitcoin scam.

710
00:44:10,739 --> 00:44:14,319
Yeah, I feel like the whole blockchain, not Bitcoin thing

711
00:44:14,319 --> 00:44:16,119
just dropped collective IQ points

712
00:44:16,119 --> 00:44:19,439
of a large portion of the population for a good decade.

713
00:44:20,199 --> 00:44:23,119
And hopefully we're recovering from that.

714
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:23,559
Still in recovery.

715
00:44:24,039 --> 00:44:25,339
I don't know if that's still a thing.

716
00:44:25,399 --> 00:44:26,999
If people still have conferences on blockchains,

717
00:44:27,019 --> 00:44:31,979
but it's just like oh they do it's not a good database it's not a good database like just use

718
00:44:31,979 --> 00:44:36,339
just you you just should just have a centralized database for like pretty much all of this stuff

719
00:44:36,339 --> 00:44:41,359
like bitcoin is the only viable use case of blockchain that and maybe some like i'm you know

720
00:44:41,359 --> 00:44:46,759
i'm not a goddamn fortune teller i'm a podcaster like i don't know anything but like that it's the

721
00:44:46,759 --> 00:44:52,419
only like true legitimate use that we've seen for blockchain at this time i think that's that's very

722
00:44:52,419 --> 00:44:57,959
fair to say and like are there some other things that might be interesting yeah but like is that

723
00:44:57,959 --> 00:45:03,059
actually the best way to do it you know like for for money for like a decentralized censorship

724
00:45:03,059 --> 00:45:08,879
resistant absolutely scarce money that can operate with rough consensus yeah blockchain makes sense

725
00:45:08,879 --> 00:45:12,339
for pretty much everything else it's like now you just should probably just have a centralized

726
00:45:12,339 --> 00:45:17,379
database or you should have distributed relays or you know whatever like in the noster sense like

727
00:45:17,379 --> 00:45:22,239
i don't know if you i'm probably missing some very important uh use cases of blockchain now you know

728
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:28,379
of it but i don't know i'm assuming you're on the same page there yeah i mean like i'm glad we're

729
00:45:28,379 --> 00:45:32,919
like this reminds me the conversations i had like 2017 and like it's bringing me back and like

730
00:45:32,919 --> 00:45:39,999
and i think it it's it's important to restate it like exactly you know like why it blockchain only

731
00:45:39,999 --> 00:45:46,099
makes sense in the context of bitcoin because you need very specific set of things that work

732
00:45:46,099 --> 00:45:50,599
together like you know they have the proof of work you have like the ledger aspect you have like the

733
00:45:50,599 --> 00:45:55,239
fact that it's money and it's like you have this one particular use case and all the all like all

734
00:45:55,239 --> 00:46:00,699
of the things that support that data structure are toward that one goal of making a simple ledger

735
00:46:00,699 --> 00:46:06,599
that is money and you can't just take those pieces and like make a general purpose database that's

736
00:46:06,599 --> 00:46:10,799
like that's good um and this was like always something i tried to say like back in the day

737
00:46:10,799 --> 00:46:14,359
in like 10 years i think it was 10 years ago now oh my god like what it was all the blockchain not

738
00:46:14,359 --> 00:46:18,199
bitcoin stands like it doesn't this just logically does not make sense because it just the pieces

739
00:46:18,199 --> 00:46:23,879
don't it's kind of like um what's that one that's that one term where it's like they a bunch of like

740
00:46:23,879 --> 00:46:28,839
tribal people they were like they saw airplanes land on their island and then they like they tried

741
00:46:28,839 --> 00:46:42,038
to like build their own airplanes out of like wooden sticks oh uh what the uh not uh not cargo cult um uh what the yeah it gonna oh it

742
00:46:42,038 --> 00:46:45,718
gonna bug me i know that's like uh i'm gonna anyway so people know what we're talking about

743
00:46:45,718 --> 00:46:48,479
but like i always i always look back at that because that's what the blockchain people are

744
00:46:48,479 --> 00:46:52,178
doing is that they just like they're taking an existing technology that has a very specific

745
00:46:52,178 --> 00:46:57,278
purpose and just like trying to build a fucking thing that's just gonna fall apart it just doesn't

746
00:46:57,278 --> 00:47:02,798
make sense in any other context so um yeah i mean and then so but then when you look at nostr it's

747
00:47:02,798 --> 00:47:06,818
like it's like hyper optimized database it's i think we have probably the fastest database on

748
00:47:06,818 --> 00:47:11,638
the planet i always say that i'm like non-hyperbolically um the guy the guy who made stir

749
00:47:11,638 --> 00:47:17,138
fry is like an absolute like genius at database architecture and when after reading that code basic

750
00:47:17,138 --> 00:47:21,118
it literally inspired me to build the database from scratch because i just thought it was the

751
00:47:21,118 --> 00:47:24,538
coolest piece of software i've ever saw in my life and just like i've never seen something so

752
00:47:24,538 --> 00:47:29,038
hyper-optimized before and i think the reason he could he could actually do that is because

753
00:47:29,038 --> 00:47:34,558
nostr scope and it's like and its structure is so simple that when you have and whereas like

754
00:47:34,558 --> 00:47:37,738
a traditional database like sql no we're getting into databases it's really exciting for people

755
00:47:37,738 --> 00:47:42,678
but i like it let's go traditional database like sql you have like very complex query language

756
00:47:42,678 --> 00:47:46,518
right you have like support all these different indexes and like ways to aggregate stuff and ways

757
00:47:46,518 --> 00:47:52,439
to like filter data and so it's very powerful but that power basically restricts the amount of like

758
00:47:52,439 --> 00:47:56,459
optimizations you can do on the database like in general like generalized optimizations

759
00:47:56,459 --> 00:48:00,718
so that's why a lot of people in in sql you have to like create these special indexes to make it

760
00:48:00,718 --> 00:48:04,778
high performance if you don't have the indexes it'll fail um but like since nostril is a very

761
00:48:04,778 --> 00:48:09,439
specific form it's a very specific structure he was able to build like this like super optimal

762
00:48:09,439 --> 00:48:13,419
database that just like basically returns things in oh one time it's like instantly

763
00:48:13,419 --> 00:48:19,798
effectively instantly um so i would i always say nostril if you it has the fast that's why it works

764
00:48:19,798 --> 00:48:23,198
Like if it, if, if that software didn't exist, like Nostra wouldn't work.

765
00:48:23,939 --> 00:48:24,919
And that, so that's good.

766
00:48:24,979 --> 00:48:26,898
That gives me a lot of hope that it can actually scale up to,

767
00:48:27,078 --> 00:48:29,018
because we don't even really need that level of performance.

768
00:48:29,018 --> 00:48:33,499
Like in the, in the future, hopefully eventually more people are running their own nodes and like,

769
00:48:33,518 --> 00:48:34,578
you know, it's much more distributed.

770
00:48:34,919 --> 00:48:38,919
Like it's surprising we can handle so much load on a single server already.

771
00:48:38,919 --> 00:48:40,618
So anyway, I don't know what that rant was.

772
00:48:40,638 --> 00:48:41,578
It was a database rant, but.

773
00:48:41,758 --> 00:48:46,878
No, I mean, I think like to, to the large part, it's like, it's, it's amazing how well this all works.

774
00:48:47,298 --> 00:48:47,658
Right.

775
00:48:47,738 --> 00:48:47,919
Yeah.

776
00:48:47,919 --> 00:48:54,718
like and and sure you know it's not uh it has some rough edges right it's not uh yeah you know

777
00:48:54,718 --> 00:48:59,598
it's not completely perfect like because you've also got a bunch of like people building independently

778
00:48:59,598 --> 00:49:03,798
and then having all of this stuff kind of come together and work together and they're interfacing

779
00:49:03,798 --> 00:49:07,419
with you know uh with with other apps and like so of course they're gonna be some rough edges of

780
00:49:07,419 --> 00:49:11,198
course it's gonna be a little bit messy but like overall like like the fact that i'm able to have

781
00:49:11,198 --> 00:49:18,398
a really positive streaming experience uh on zap.stream and broadcast that and any and any

782
00:49:18,398 --> 00:49:24,598
client that wants to can go ahead and pick up that stream and surface it in their own application

783
00:49:24,598 --> 00:49:28,558
like or you can you know just uh you know have a link to zap.stream you can do that but like

784
00:49:28,558 --> 00:49:34,118
you know you can just do that you can have it and it and it like it just and it just works like you

785
00:49:34,118 --> 00:49:39,678
don't have to go to youtube to watch a youtube stream you know like and granted with uh you know

786
00:49:39,678 --> 00:49:42,638
how streaming works, obviously you can stream to multiple places,

787
00:49:42,638 --> 00:49:46,578
but the point here is this is I'm streaming it to one place and that is

788
00:49:46,578 --> 00:49:48,618
getting picked up by all these different clients.

789
00:49:48,618 --> 00:49:51,638
Like that's just cool. Like that's a, that's a good experience.

790
00:49:51,878 --> 00:49:53,718
And I think that like, yes,

791
00:49:53,718 --> 00:49:56,578
back to our earlier conversation about like, okay,

792
00:49:56,578 --> 00:49:59,898
we're going to keep having these waves of people running away from totalitarian

793
00:49:59,898 --> 00:50:03,419
regimes and censorship, you know, censorship attacks and everything.

794
00:50:03,919 --> 00:50:04,798
But also like,

795
00:50:05,138 --> 00:50:08,738
I hope that more people start to come around to the fact that there are actually

796
00:50:08,738 --> 00:50:16,018
just better experiences to be had on Noster thanks to how this interoperable network of

797
00:50:16,018 --> 00:50:21,738
clients and relays works. Like that is really a powerful thing. And, you know, that's going to,

798
00:50:21,798 --> 00:50:27,558
you know, again, I think it's, it's harder to get people to run towards something than it is to get

799
00:50:27,558 --> 00:50:30,378
them to run away from something. Like when there's like a clear and present danger, you're like,

800
00:50:30,398 --> 00:50:33,778
okay, I need to get away from that. Whatever I hit, you know, whatever I run into, that's fine.

801
00:50:34,238 --> 00:50:37,838
But like, if things are kind of okay, if you haven't been, you know, if you haven't been

802
00:50:37,838 --> 00:50:41,939
censored, like, you know, okay, you know, I'm not really too worried. And it's just, it's going to

803
00:50:41,939 --> 00:50:45,658
take you time. I mean, it's like with Bitcoin, like people who live in countries where their

804
00:50:45,658 --> 00:50:51,078
currencies have hyperinflated, grok Bitcoin a lot quicker. People who live in, you know,

805
00:50:51,178 --> 00:50:55,419
in the United States, like they take some a little bit longer. Granted, we have a ton of Bitcoin

806
00:50:55,419 --> 00:51:00,338
ownership in the US, but it's still like, I think the number of Cornell just put out a study and

807
00:51:00,338 --> 00:51:05,878
like the number one reason for people in the US not want, not owning Bitcoin is they're just not

808
00:51:05,878 --> 00:51:11,078
interested and it's like the highest of any like of of any of the countries they surveyed the u.s

809
00:51:11,078 --> 00:51:14,858
is the highest it's like people just you know it's like why aren't you why don't you use no stir

810
00:51:14,858 --> 00:51:19,298
like for most people they're just not interested but like there are more and more compelling use

811
00:51:19,298 --> 00:51:22,858
cases for why you could be interested like especially as a content creator and that's

812
00:51:22,858 --> 00:51:26,798
like the drum i will keep beating it's like if you're a content creator you should be using

813
00:51:26,798 --> 00:51:34,419
no stir like if nothing like i don't view it as a backup i view it as like this is a primary part

814
00:51:34,419 --> 00:51:37,598
like everything else is kind of a backup like this i think is what has the staying power

815
00:51:37,598 --> 00:51:41,878
but like if you need to think of it as a backup at first to get you on here and get you start using

816
00:51:41,878 --> 00:51:48,419
it do that and at least check it out you said something that reminded me of uh you know we're

817
00:51:48,419 --> 00:51:52,398
talking about how you know we at least at the very start we're talking about how like yeah we're

818
00:51:52,398 --> 00:51:58,838
winning but like not not really because i was looking at i feel like recently in the news people

819
00:51:58,838 --> 00:52:03,318
have been talking a lot more about like stable coins and especially in like the southern america

820
00:52:03,318 --> 00:52:06,898
and stuff like that's all they talk about it's like stable stable coins and yeah i think even

821
00:52:06,898 --> 00:52:10,658
recently i saw trump was saying something like they're not going to buy bitcoin anymore i think

822
00:52:10,658 --> 00:52:15,258
i saw that this morning i don't know if that was true i mean without giving it without giving it

823
00:52:15,258 --> 00:52:21,858
too much air uh scott besant basically was on on the news and said like oh you know said positive

824
00:52:21,858 --> 00:52:26,818
things like bitcoin is a store of value for the 21st century and uh and you know we're not going

825
00:52:26,818 --> 00:52:30,818
to sell any of our bitcoin that we've confiscated and if we confiscate more we're also going to hold

826
00:52:30,818 --> 00:52:36,198
on to that um but we're like not going to buy any or we're not we're not going to buy any of that

827
00:52:36,198 --> 00:52:40,838
was his was his expression i think he was probably talking off the cuff and i may have tweeted and

828
00:52:40,838 --> 00:52:46,298
noted some you know incendiary things in all caps to because i would like to troll a little bit but

829
00:52:46,298 --> 00:52:50,818
like you know at the end of the day it's like i think people need to remember that like bitcoin

830
00:52:50,818 --> 00:52:54,939
doesn't need the u.s government but the u.s government does need does need this sure um and

831
00:52:54,939 --> 00:53:00,019
they'll realize that sooner or later i don't really care if they start buying it um i would

832
00:53:00,019 --> 00:53:03,798
hope if all countries are eventually going to print their fiat and buy it i would hope the u.s

833
00:53:03,798 --> 00:53:09,718
would be the first but like you know we'll see what our glorious leaders have to say about that

834
00:53:09,718 --> 00:53:14,258
at the end of the day like i'm okay with sats still being cheap as cheap as possible for people

835
00:53:14,258 --> 00:53:20,138
the average person for as long as possible but i digress uh yeah it's just interesting because like

836
00:53:20,138 --> 00:53:25,558
you know even with the great success of you know the price movement i guess price movement is a

837
00:53:25,558 --> 00:53:29,658
success that's one way of valuing or seeing the six i mean i look at bitcoin as a technology and

838
00:53:29,658 --> 00:53:30,718
I'm like, I think it's already a success.

839
00:53:30,798 --> 00:53:31,479
I don't care what the price is.

840
00:53:32,278 --> 00:53:34,479
But obviously, you know, price is also a really good indicator

841
00:53:34,479 --> 00:53:37,499
of like measuring how much other people believe it's also a success.

842
00:53:38,618 --> 00:53:41,439
So, but I'm still like, I hear these stories about people

843
00:53:41,439 --> 00:53:43,718
like how they're like mainly focused on,

844
00:53:44,278 --> 00:53:46,898
like I've always been, my number one focus always been like,

845
00:53:47,058 --> 00:53:48,479
how you get people to use Bitcoin.

846
00:53:48,598 --> 00:53:52,038
Like I think that was one of the big reasons why I made the Zaps protocol

847
00:53:52,038 --> 00:53:56,098
and I just wanted people to experience what it is to feel like true freedom.

848
00:53:56,098 --> 00:54:01,338
them um but i do i sometimes i do look at all these other um incumbents that are just trying

849
00:54:01,338 --> 00:54:05,898
to like take over the payments like the digital payments aspect and i always wanted bitcoin to be

850
00:54:05,898 --> 00:54:10,198
that thing but i don't know it seems like stable coins are for some reason taking off and i don't

851
00:54:10,198 --> 00:54:13,959
know why that is is it just like government is just like there's more startups working on that

852
00:54:13,959 --> 00:54:18,578
i don't know there's like a lot more money there like it's just it seems very i don't know i feel

853
00:54:18,578 --> 00:54:21,398
like i'm sometimes i'm just so out of touch with like what everyone else is doing i'm just like

854
00:54:21,398 --> 00:54:26,398
working on bitcoin technology and like building stuff in like nostril and zavs but and i look at

855
00:54:26,398 --> 00:54:30,378
the rest of the world i'm like wait everyone's not interested in bitcoin for payments they're using

856
00:54:30,378 --> 00:54:35,499
tether i'm like i don't know it's it's kind of frustrating sometimes yeah i mean i think like

857
00:54:35,499 --> 00:54:42,578
from the stable coin perspective it's like uh the the u.s dollar has a greater network effect than

858
00:54:42,578 --> 00:54:48,218
bitcoin does at this point right like that's that's undeniable like people like all around

859
00:54:48,218 --> 00:54:54,198
the world want us dollars more so than people want bitcoin and like like we can argue that like

860
00:54:54,198 --> 00:54:58,439
that's that's foolish and they shouldn't want dollars dollars are just a shit coin but like

861
00:54:58,439 --> 00:55:02,878
it's just the reality like it and it's gonna eventually you know it slowly changes but like

862
00:55:02,878 --> 00:55:07,618
so i think that viewing it through that lens it's like it's natural that people especially in

863
00:55:07,618 --> 00:55:12,678
developing you know countries where they have even worse fiats than we do here in the u.s or

864
00:55:12,678 --> 00:55:15,658
than the moose knuckle currency you have up in Canada.

865
00:55:16,338 --> 00:55:19,178
Like, of course, they are going to want dollars.

866
00:55:19,378 --> 00:55:21,519
And if there's a way for them to have digital dollars

867
00:55:21,519 --> 00:55:23,459
that they can send around on their phone,

868
00:55:24,038 --> 00:55:26,538
then yeah, they're going to want that.

869
00:55:26,598 --> 00:55:29,479
And like a lot of them also want Bitcoin,

870
00:55:29,598 --> 00:55:31,898
but like dollars still have a greater network effect.

871
00:55:31,979 --> 00:55:33,718
So I think it's just like-

872
00:55:33,718 --> 00:55:35,078
It's a technology to get more dollar,

873
00:55:35,499 --> 00:55:36,738
to get more fiat, basically.

874
00:55:36,738 --> 00:55:40,138
Yeah, and obviously there's a ton of money

875
00:55:40,138 --> 00:55:42,919
to be made on the stablecoin issuance side.

876
00:55:43,078 --> 00:55:45,558
You know, like Tether's like the most profitable company

877
00:55:45,558 --> 00:55:47,298
like in the history of the world,

878
00:55:47,538 --> 00:55:49,439
like on a per headcount basis.

879
00:55:49,678 --> 00:55:50,598
Like it's nuts.

880
00:55:51,658 --> 00:55:53,398
And like, okay, that's something that's like,

881
00:55:53,519 --> 00:55:55,459
it is obviously useful to people around the world

882
00:55:55,459 --> 00:55:57,878
because people are using it like around the world.

883
00:55:58,098 --> 00:56:00,138
You know, like whether or not that's,

884
00:56:00,258 --> 00:56:03,238
obviously that's also a tool of US dollar dominance.

885
00:56:03,238 --> 00:56:05,499
I think that the US government's realizing that now.

886
00:56:06,499 --> 00:56:09,658
You know, whether or not that's a good or a bad thing,

887
00:56:09,658 --> 00:56:16,178
you know let's let's let's see but like we can't deny that at least like like you know tether is

888
00:56:16,178 --> 00:56:21,578
providing something that people want and people need and is useful to them and like i think that

889
00:56:21,578 --> 00:56:26,578
people are going to come around to bitcoin just like people are going to come around to to noster

890
00:56:26,578 --> 00:56:33,298
but like it takes time like these entrenched systems are just that they are entrenched like

891
00:56:33,298 --> 00:56:38,558
they have the stronger network effects at this time it's if i if i was trying to steal man like

892
00:56:38,558 --> 00:56:43,558
positive things about that and from in that from that perspective i can maybe make the point like

893
00:56:43,558 --> 00:56:46,818
maybe it familiarizes people more with the technology and more with like interacting with

894
00:56:46,818 --> 00:56:51,158
keys um and maybe that's the stage we're at is like we just got to get more people like used to

895
00:56:51,158 --> 00:56:55,459
using this technology versus just like right now they're just used to their credit card and like

896
00:56:55,459 --> 00:57:00,578
their banks you know pin numbers and stuff so it's just going to take a large mental shift and maybe

897
00:57:00,578 --> 00:57:04,638
that's the same with noser it's like you know having old holding your key is still very hard

898
00:57:04,638 --> 00:57:09,158
for people like i still get emails like tons of emails every day of just people like can't log in

899
00:57:09,158 --> 00:57:13,838
domus like i can't post anything i'm like um and then they're all logging with their mpub i think

900
00:57:13,838 --> 00:57:17,678
actually might be a bug i'm like maybe there's a bug because like i think when it restores from

901
00:57:17,678 --> 00:57:22,678
backup it like uses the mpub instead of nsec okay that's probably my fault but still why these people

902
00:57:22,678 --> 00:57:27,519
keep complaining like just get smarter oh wait that's actually a bug well this is an interesting

903
00:57:27,519 --> 00:57:33,058
thing where like where uh technology and user experience can help to drive behavior like i love

904
00:57:33,058 --> 00:57:40,358
what uh uh what samson and his team at aqua wallet are doing for this reason i'm to clarify i'm in no

905
00:57:40,358 --> 00:57:44,178
way sponsored by them or anything i just like i i just like what they're building i like the wallet

906
00:57:44,178 --> 00:57:49,338
it's one of one of the you know many lightning wallets i use um and they like selena started

907
00:57:49,338 --> 00:57:54,919
that wallet did you at blockstream yeah so that was my me and selene's idea it was aqua wallet

908
00:57:54,919 --> 00:57:59,858
no way well look at that wow this okay so i was here i was sitting back you've taken this

909
00:57:59,858 --> 00:58:03,618
compliment you're like i'm like oh well you know we did we've worked hard i didn't do a lot of

910
00:58:03,618 --> 00:58:08,519
programming but it was more of just like i always wanted a single sig wallet i was hired by blockchain

911
00:58:08,519 --> 00:58:13,758
to like work on a bitcoin back end to the green wallet and like i always thought the multi-sig

912
00:58:13,758 --> 00:58:16,578
wallet was kind of complicated so i'm like what if we just have like a single sig wallet that just

913
00:58:16,578 --> 00:58:21,738
talks to the bitcoin core node um and then somehow that evolved into like aqua and so yeah i know

914
00:58:21,738 --> 00:58:27,058
dude that's awesome now we people know that no that's this is a cool bit of lore but like

915
00:58:27,058 --> 00:58:33,538
it's nice because i i also uh like if people are going to use stable coins like tether personally

916
00:58:33,538 --> 00:58:39,019
i think it's best if they do that on like the liquid network versus like ethereum or tron i

917
00:58:39,019 --> 00:58:44,318
just you know like you know because i'm a toxic bitcoin maximalist uh but but like really like

918
00:58:44,318 --> 00:58:48,398
and but that experience is really nice within aqua where you basically you have that capability

919
00:58:48,398 --> 00:58:53,838
to swap back and forth between bitcoin and tether and you know layer one bitcoin and they just

920
00:58:53,838 --> 00:58:57,818
generally call it layer two bitcoin i know they're doing some kind of fancy stuff on the back like

921
00:58:57,818 --> 00:59:01,038
the lightning payment takes like a little bit longer because it's like an atomic swap or something

922
00:59:01,038 --> 00:59:05,798
that's going on right um but like like that's a nice experience like you can use that as your you

923
00:59:05,798 --> 00:59:11,378
know you know usdt stable coin wallet but then you have a very easy way to be able to swap into

924
00:59:11,378 --> 00:59:18,138
bitcoin and like even like i've literally heard uh heard paulo uh you know the ceo of tether

925
00:59:18,138 --> 00:59:22,678
be like yeah tether's a shit coin everything that's not bitcoin is a shit coin like tether's

926
00:59:22,678 --> 00:59:26,898
a US dollar stable coin. Of course it's a shit coin. Like, you know, like they, like they're

927
00:59:26,898 --> 00:59:31,218
pretty hard, like from the people I know over there, at least they're pretty hardcore Bitcoiners.

928
00:59:31,898 --> 00:59:36,019
Um, so yeah, I don't know. It's like, it's one of those things where I think it's a useful tool.

929
00:59:36,378 --> 00:59:41,898
Um, I use stable coins like occasionally, um, not a ton, but like I do occasionally. And when I do

930
00:59:41,898 --> 00:59:46,738
it, I do it on liquid, but, but yeah, I don't know. I'm glad these things, I'm glad these things

931
00:59:46,738 --> 00:59:53,038
exist uh there are obviously some very worrisome like down the road like i don't know we're going

932
00:59:53,038 --> 00:59:56,338
to see basically every major bank i think is going to have their own like little stable coin

933
00:59:56,338 --> 01:00:03,658
like you know old jp morgan is just going to be champing at the bit to get their own little jpm

934
01:00:03,658 --> 01:00:08,658
coin out there yeah it seems much more likely that you would see a lot of stable coin integration

935
01:00:08,658 --> 01:00:13,078
integration into banks versus like have a bitcoin like transaction like a lightning transaction i

936
01:00:13,078 --> 01:00:17,098
don't know yeah maybe that's it's kind of sad but it's just the maybe maybe bitcoin and lighting

937
01:00:17,098 --> 01:00:20,838
will always just be that freedom technology that's just like the wild west on the side

938
01:00:20,838 --> 01:00:24,979
and people who like really care about the stuff will have access to it maybe nostril would be the

939
01:00:24,979 --> 01:00:31,618
same i don't know um yeah some people just don't like to you know have that responsibility they want

940
01:00:31,618 --> 01:00:35,738
like someone else to handle that for them and i mean that's just a universal thing that will never

941
01:00:35,738 --> 01:00:41,378
change and maybe that's just why you know there'll always be people in power who can have control

942
01:00:41,378 --> 01:00:45,519
because there's always going to be people who just want to be you know they don't want to have

943
01:00:45,519 --> 01:00:48,999
any responsibility maybe that's i don't know maybe that's just uh always going to be the case

944
01:00:48,999 --> 01:00:59,278
yeah i mean like human nature remains relatively consistent you know in a lot of ways and like

945
01:00:59,278 --> 01:01:06,439
also breakdowns of people within society like remain pretty consistent um despite the changes

946
01:01:06,439 --> 01:01:09,818
that technology brings it's like you know people are still people at the end of the day

947
01:01:09,818 --> 01:01:16,058
i don't know i mean i'm on the uh in terms of like okay does do bitcoin and and lightning and

948
01:01:16,058 --> 01:01:20,638
nostril stays like these fringe things i mean i you probably saw this but like back in i think it

949
01:01:20,638 --> 01:01:26,398
was it was february was at uh plan b el salvador uh they announced that they're going to have

950
01:01:26,398 --> 01:01:31,858
tether on uh on lightning so like that you know that's another thing where it's like okay you know

951
01:01:31,858 --> 01:01:36,638
that's kind of that that argument for like i mean not only like yeah bitcoin's money but like the

952
01:01:36,638 --> 01:01:41,618
layers on top of Bitcoin can also be used as rails for, you know, these fiat payments. And like,

953
01:01:41,638 --> 01:01:46,138
again, you can like debate whether or not people should like, yeah, fiat's a shit coin, but it's

954
01:01:46,138 --> 01:01:49,618
like, but people still want to use it. Like, you know what I mean? So like, like at this point,

955
01:01:49,658 --> 01:01:53,638
the market still wants to use it. So like, you know, we can, we can debate whether that's good

956
01:01:53,638 --> 01:01:58,058
or bad, but it's like, it's just the reality of it. And you know, if people are doing it like on,

957
01:01:58,118 --> 01:02:03,019
on lightning or on liquid things that are like Bitcoin adjacent, I think that's better.

958
01:02:03,019 --> 01:02:07,398
ultimately um i'd rather see that than again like on ethereum or tron or wherever else

959
01:02:07,398 --> 01:02:12,798
but yeah i mean we'll see it's a it's it's an interesting time it's an interesting time

960
01:02:12,798 --> 01:02:18,499
yeah maybe uh i know as i always like to look at it from a computer nerd perspective maybe maybe

961
01:02:18,499 --> 01:02:22,398
the correct analogy as a computer nerd would be like it's always just gonna be the linux you know

962
01:02:22,398 --> 01:02:26,678
operating operating system and yeah there's gonna be variations there's gonna be the mac the mac os

963
01:02:26,678 --> 01:02:31,959
it's you know built on you know similar ideas but and it's gonna be a little bit more locked down

964
01:02:31,959 --> 01:02:36,318
of them were restricted but at the end of the day the thing that's going to be the under everything

965
01:02:36,318 --> 01:02:40,979
is bitcoin and that's going to be the interoperability layer even if it's not always exposed to the

966
01:02:40,979 --> 01:02:46,198
user um and that's still okay i think i think that as long as that freedom there you can always drop

967
01:02:46,198 --> 01:02:50,378
down to a level where you can be free um that is that is so important because if we didn't have

968
01:02:50,378 --> 01:02:55,298
that then that would be a scary future um yeah so always we have the option to drop down to that

969
01:02:55,298 --> 01:03:01,258
level is pretty important i i couldn't agree more like you need that optionality like you need that

970
01:03:01,258 --> 01:03:06,678
that opt out. And like, even if you still want to exist in the kind of more fiat world, like

971
01:03:06,678 --> 01:03:10,818
the fact that you have a way to get out of there when you need to is really important.

972
01:03:11,618 --> 01:03:16,658
I'm curious to like, just so obviously, you know, you spend your time working on,

973
01:03:16,658 --> 01:03:21,558
on Damas on note deck on the these like, and this, this kind of ecosystem that you're building there.

974
01:03:21,798 --> 01:03:25,118
Are there other things you touched on a couple of them earlier, but there are other things that

975
01:03:25,118 --> 01:03:30,258
you see happening on Noster, either on like the social media side or elsewhere, that you're just

976
01:03:30,258 --> 01:03:34,939
really like excited about or that or that you see as like oh i'd like to you know incorporate

977
01:03:34,939 --> 01:03:39,818
you know x y and z in into what we're doing here at damas like that's a really neat uh neat tool

978
01:03:39,818 --> 01:03:46,198
or neat uh you know feature set whatever it might be yeah i mean um i never thought it would be cool

979
01:03:46,198 --> 01:03:50,798
but like the whole bit chat thing um i'm not just trying to toot jack's horn or anything but

980
01:03:50,798 --> 01:03:55,878
i actually got to use it at at the portland and we at the time we had the largest bit chat group

981
01:03:55,878 --> 01:04:00,758
and I actually had a lot of fun I saw a lot of cool use cases where you know I was in the I was

982
01:04:00,758 --> 01:04:04,618
in the audience and like American HODL was up there and everyone in the audience was like on

983
01:04:04,618 --> 01:04:07,439
bitch hat and they're like chirping him and stuff and like having a little peanut gallery

984
01:04:07,439 --> 01:04:11,939
it's awesome I just thought it was hilarious and I was like I sent that photo that's like

985
01:04:11,939 --> 01:04:17,158
and he was like oh that's funny but like things like festivals and so this idea so that gave me

986
01:04:17,158 --> 01:04:22,539
the idea of what happens if we're in the world in this in this world where you walk if you're just

987
01:04:22,539 --> 01:04:26,519
walking down the street and let's say you're having an interest of like i'm buying bitcoin

988
01:04:26,519 --> 01:04:31,238
and then someone has another interest that they're selling bitcoin and then two bit chat nodes they

989
01:04:31,238 --> 01:04:34,959
just detect each other and they detect that those are there's a trade that's could could be possible

990
01:04:34,959 --> 01:04:39,999
it just pops up on your phone that says this guy wants to sell bitcoin and you and so like there's

991
01:04:39,999 --> 01:04:43,919
i think there's a lot of cool like peer-to-peer market like buying and selling things that could

992
01:04:43,919 --> 01:04:48,378
happen over like these peer-to-peer protocols um so that's why i've been having a lot of fun like

993
01:04:48,378 --> 01:04:49,878
adding more peer-to-peer stuff within

994
01:04:49,878 --> 01:04:52,318
NodeDeck and within the Domus Android

995
01:04:52,318 --> 01:04:52,738
stack.

996
01:04:54,158 --> 01:04:56,218
Being able to communicate over BitChad

997
01:04:56,218 --> 01:04:58,278
is something I'm looking at right now as a

998
01:04:58,278 --> 01:05:00,158
potential peer-to-peer transport layer for

999
01:05:00,158 --> 01:05:00,539
Nostr.

1000
01:05:02,439 --> 01:05:03,398
We already have

1001
01:05:03,398 --> 01:05:05,818
if you're on a Wi-Fi network with

1002
01:05:05,818 --> 01:05:08,178
other Domus nodes, you can actually just

1003
01:05:08,178 --> 01:05:10,398
send nodes and it'll get them peer-to-peer.

1004
01:05:10,658 --> 01:05:12,178
There's a lot of fun things around there I think

1005
01:05:12,178 --> 01:05:12,718
are really interesting.

1006
01:05:14,479 --> 01:05:16,078
Outside of that, the community

1007
01:05:16,078 --> 01:05:18,198
aspects, the community apps, those are

1008
01:05:18,198 --> 01:05:23,019
going to be huge i want i want to get reddit i want reddit on on top of nostr because i think

1009
01:05:23,019 --> 01:05:27,778
reddit's a shithole of censorship and that's the next next thing to be cleaned up i think

1010
01:05:27,778 --> 01:05:31,358
um so things like that i really hopefully can start building those soon

1011
01:05:31,358 --> 01:05:36,959
nice that's super cool like the idea of like having kind of that localized uh

1012
01:05:36,959 --> 01:05:41,858
localized ability to do like a peer-to-peer bitcoin transaction from like a buying and

1013
01:05:41,858 --> 01:05:45,318
selling perspective obviously like you can you know you can do a bitcoin transaction anytime

1014
01:05:45,318 --> 01:05:50,778
you want but like i have somebody like that i want to anonymously buy bitcoin from using i mean

1015
01:05:50,778 --> 01:05:56,138
i don't know i guess probably probably using uh probably using tether i guess unless you uh unless

1016
01:05:56,138 --> 01:06:00,278
you want to meet that person physically like you're you know i so like that's a that's an

1017
01:06:00,278 --> 01:06:04,178
interesting question there but i think that's that's it's really neat and i think the that

1018
01:06:04,178 --> 01:06:10,158
the more of these like tools that we start actually like using like the largest bit chat i've had also

1019
01:06:10,158 --> 01:06:14,858
is two people it's just been me and carla in the house um our son's not using bit chat yet he's a

1020
01:06:14,858 --> 01:06:20,618
little young gotta get him on that yeah i know i know he's he's really been slack on his freedom

1021
01:06:20,618 --> 01:06:25,838
tech but like this stuff is really it's really cool to see it's really cool to see the like

1022
01:06:25,838 --> 01:06:31,658
what's possible because like these technologies that we have in this these like phones like this

1023
01:06:31,658 --> 01:06:35,618
is like these are supercomputers like calling them phones it just still feels like funny like

1024
01:06:35,618 --> 01:06:40,898
that's the thing people do on them the least and yet we still call them phones but there's so much

1025
01:06:40,898 --> 01:06:46,019
that can be done and it's kind of shame like it's literally has a very powerful radio and it's

1026
01:06:46,019 --> 01:06:49,439
actually really locked down you can't you can only use it for like talking to cell towers for the most

1027
01:06:49,439 --> 01:06:54,258
part but if we had the ability to just like go peer-to-peer on our phones to other nodes like

1028
01:06:54,258 --> 01:06:57,298
to other phones like that would be hugely empowering and maybe that's why they don't

1029
01:06:57,298 --> 01:07:00,278
want us to have that technology or maybe it's like interferes with the bands too much or something i

1030
01:07:00,278 --> 01:07:05,118
don't know but uh there's uh i always say like a conversation at a bar is this the most decentralized

1031
01:07:05,118 --> 01:07:08,858
thing you can do it's like completely peer-to-peer doesn't require any centralized architecture

1032
01:07:08,858 --> 01:07:13,878
infrastructure no cloud involved you're just having a beer with someone so i think what we're

1033
01:07:13,878 --> 01:07:18,618
doing well peer-to-peer technology is simply restoring that human thing we've been doing for

1034
01:07:18,618 --> 01:07:26,178
hundreds of thousands of years so um i think it's worthwhile having a beer or a nice glass of peony

1035
01:07:26,178 --> 01:07:32,298
lane wine uh who who did send me this wine to drink on the show and shout out to ben justman

1036
01:07:32,298 --> 01:07:34,919
for being a huge Noster bull.

1037
01:07:36,158 --> 01:07:37,778
And also the wine is really great

1038
01:07:37,778 --> 01:07:38,939
and it's all organic guys.

1039
01:07:39,338 --> 01:07:41,758
And he's literally paying me in the wine

1040
01:07:41,758 --> 01:07:43,019
that I'm drinking to say this.

1041
01:07:43,378 --> 01:07:45,118
So I just want to be clear there.

1042
01:07:45,718 --> 01:07:48,459
And he has really interesting wine threads on Noster.

1043
01:07:48,578 --> 01:07:49,878
I've learned a lot about wine.

1044
01:07:50,118 --> 01:07:50,979
And I've zapped,

1045
01:07:51,059 --> 01:07:52,439
those are kind of like the highest zap things.

1046
01:07:52,539 --> 01:07:53,898
I'm just like, it's really interesting content.

1047
01:07:54,039 --> 01:07:54,838
So you should definitely follow him.

1048
01:07:55,499 --> 01:07:56,818
It's fascinating stuff.

1049
01:07:56,858 --> 01:07:58,298
And like, I love the story too,

1050
01:07:58,358 --> 01:07:59,778
where it's like, you know, he's moved,

1051
01:07:59,778 --> 01:08:05,298
you know basically like moved back in the land that uh you know his dad was kind of you know

1052
01:08:05,298 --> 01:08:10,338
basically uh you know working on and developing and like you know just just decided like i'm just

1053
01:08:10,338 --> 01:08:16,658
gonna make wine i think he said over half of his sales are in bitcoin too which is like like that's

1054
01:08:16,658 --> 01:08:20,979
that's awesome like that's that's it's really huge like and it just goes to show you that like

1055
01:08:20,979 --> 01:08:25,618
there are a lot of bitcoiners who want to spend bitcoin i mean you see and you see this on

1056
01:08:25,618 --> 01:08:29,679
Noster every day. What is a zap? A zap is spending Bitcoin, right? Like that, that's, that, that's

1057
01:08:29,679 --> 01:08:35,539
what you were doing. And like, you know, if you just want to, you know, hold, hold your Bitcoin,

1058
01:08:35,698 --> 01:08:40,798
hodl your Bitcoin, hodl your Bitcoin, however you'd like to say it and, and not ever spend any

1059
01:08:40,798 --> 01:08:44,139
of it. Like, that's fine too. I don't care what you do with your money, but like shout out to the

1060
01:08:44,139 --> 01:08:47,838
people who are out there spending Bitcoin. I try to do it every chance I get. I mean, I do it on,

1061
01:08:47,838 --> 01:08:52,738
on Noster every day. Uh, but I try to do it for goods and services as well when I can, because

1062
01:08:52,738 --> 01:08:59,658
it's like i i think that bitcoin needs to be a medium of exchange and be used as medium of exchange

1063
01:08:59,658 --> 01:09:05,479
to like reach that full potential of what it can do but like you know the great thing is like

1064
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:10,639
bitcoin doesn't care if you do or do not use it in that way um and as long as some people do

1065
01:09:10,639 --> 01:09:15,258
it'll it'll be all right uh you send you send some fat zaps out there

1066
01:09:15,258 --> 01:09:21,418
well so you're doing you're doing your part you know uh i try i don't know i feel like the zapping

1067
01:09:21,418 --> 01:09:25,798
has definitely died down a lot and that's fine obviously like the price has increased and people

1068
01:09:25,798 --> 01:09:32,838
you know are busy doing other things um but you know it is a very i i think it's a rare experience

1069
01:09:32,838 --> 01:09:36,179
a lot of people don't get to experience very often but i went to the when i was at the portland

1070
01:09:36,179 --> 01:09:40,498
conference and i like i haven't i haven't used lightning in a physical place in a long time

1071
01:09:40,498 --> 01:09:45,818
i was like wait i just like i use the new domus zapping feature or like the the paying invoice

1072
01:09:45,818 --> 01:09:50,078
feature so i was getting zaps from people sending me zaps on the network and i was like buy i bought

1073
01:09:50,078 --> 01:10:01,657
Bitcoin pin And I like that such a cool feeling that you can just like get paid in freedom units and then just like use it to buy something like in real life and i just my main goal in life is

1074
01:10:01,657 --> 01:10:06,538
just to get more people to experience that because there's nothing more like fuck yeah freedom than

1075
01:10:06,538 --> 01:10:15,538
that right it is it is pretty cool and like again i wonder how much bitcoin ngu technology

1076
01:10:15,538 --> 01:10:19,137
will actually end up driving people to Noster.

1077
01:10:19,297 --> 01:10:23,777
Like, I feel like we, like, when you first created Zaps,

1078
01:10:23,857 --> 01:10:25,717
I feel like there was, like, so much buzz about them,

1079
01:10:25,898 --> 01:10:28,177
and, like, people were just, like, super stoked.

1080
01:10:28,577 --> 01:10:30,597
But, like, the price was, like, pretty, I mean, that was, like,

1081
01:10:30,597 --> 01:10:31,777
the price was pretty low with that.

1082
01:10:31,837 --> 01:10:33,477
We were, like, depths of the bear market at that point.

1083
01:10:33,558 --> 01:10:34,958
People were just sending just fats.

1084
01:10:34,958 --> 01:10:36,577
It was, like, 15,000, I think, or something.

1085
01:10:36,577 --> 01:10:39,097
Yeah, it was literally, like, I think you released, like,

1086
01:10:39,197 --> 01:10:41,697
at the, like, the bottom of the bottom of the bear.

1087
01:10:41,697 --> 01:10:50,377
but like ralph sent like a 20 million sat zap like that's nuts he was going crazy i remember when

1088
01:10:50,377 --> 01:10:54,717
when jack was out there like just like he picked like a list of people that i felt privileged

1089
01:10:54,717 --> 01:10:59,317
enough to be on who were like active no stir either users or developers or whatever and just

1090
01:10:59,317 --> 01:11:04,217
like sent like a million sats to each person i was like that's like really cool and also like wow

1091
01:11:04,217 --> 01:11:10,058
like testing you know fat channels as well like that's that's a it's a neat thing to do i do it

1092
01:11:10,058 --> 01:11:13,977
occasionally just to test my liquidity i just i'll drop like 100k just make sure my node's still

1093
01:11:13,977 --> 01:11:18,757
operating are you dropping it to one of your nims though you're just zap washing yourself

1094
01:11:18,757 --> 01:11:24,498
i think the last one was like to isabella art that person i don't know i just did a cool post

1095
01:11:24,498 --> 01:11:28,597
i'm like i don't know it's nice to just drop some fat sats every now and then like just like

1096
01:11:28,597 --> 01:11:31,817
i feel like i don't know it's like going to the strip clubs like throw throw some cash and

1097
01:11:31,817 --> 01:11:38,917
everyone's having a good time i i've kept my zap my default zap at six nine six uh like just

1098
01:11:38,917 --> 01:11:44,197
forever um and if like if it's a really really banger post or somebody really brought a lot of

1099
01:11:44,197 --> 01:11:50,898
value i'll do a you know 69 69 and like i looked at uh i looked at my you know zap sent first

1100
01:11:50,898 --> 01:11:56,257
received uh on i forget where i checked this out but it was like you know i've sent like you know

1101
01:11:56,257 --> 01:12:01,018
millions more sats than i've received like i'm not making money on no stir but that's not my like

1102
01:12:01,018 --> 01:12:05,837
that's not my goal i'm not like hoarding these sats that i'm receiving on no stir and like trying

1103
01:12:05,837 --> 01:12:11,477
to skimp out how many I send. It's like, no, I want people like nothing feels better than getting

1104
01:12:11,477 --> 01:12:16,597
a really big zap because you know that somebody like actually valued what you put out there and

1105
01:12:16,597 --> 01:12:20,197
you know they valued it because they just sent you the hardest money that will ever exist.

1106
01:12:20,677 --> 01:12:25,058
And like, now I remember what I was getting to. I feel like as Bitcoin price goes up,

1107
01:12:25,398 --> 01:12:28,637
like, and people start hearing like, hey, there's this like social media protocol where people will

1108
01:12:28,637 --> 01:12:32,977
like send you Bitcoin when you, you know, I don't know, post foot pics or we got to bring

1109
01:12:32,977 --> 01:12:38,097
footster back to when you post foot pics or you you know like uh you know have a have a really like

1110
01:12:38,097 --> 01:12:43,038
hot take or you know whatever you post a beautiful piece of art or a picture of your you know family

1111
01:12:43,038 --> 01:12:51,237
out of you know out in the woods like that's like that's a pretty incredible thing and i feel like

1112
01:12:51,237 --> 01:12:56,117
like still the you know majority of the world is sleeping on bitcoin and the people that are

1113
01:12:56,117 --> 01:13:01,197
even aware of bitcoin many of them are sleeping on no stir and so i feel like it's it's only a

1114
01:13:01,197 --> 01:13:06,458
matter of time but i think we need to start uh we need to start re-stressing like hey you can make

1115
01:13:06,458 --> 01:13:11,377
money by shit posting and we need we need to get back to that narrative a little bit or by

1116
01:13:11,377 --> 01:13:17,938
foot posting either way derrick ross will be so happy yeah like i don't know i think it's maybe

1117
01:13:17,938 --> 01:13:22,257
there's just the fact that it's not a tangible asset in the sense that you know if you have a

1118
01:13:22,257 --> 01:13:27,077
kilo of gold in your hand you're like damn this is pretty baller um and like what that's what

1119
01:13:27,077 --> 01:13:29,938
Isn't like a Bitcoin, like roughly like that, about a kilo of gold.

1120
01:13:30,817 --> 01:13:34,637
So I always say like zapping is like sending chunks of gold or gold dust over the internet.

1121
01:13:34,917 --> 01:13:38,558
And if people just saw gold coming out of their computer, they'd be like, holy shit,

1122
01:13:38,617 --> 01:13:38,998
this is cool.

1123
01:13:39,097 --> 01:13:41,197
But maybe it's not as like impactful if it's just bits.

1124
01:13:41,498 --> 01:13:42,157
I don't know.

1125
01:13:43,518 --> 01:13:44,458
But yeah.

1126
01:13:44,938 --> 01:13:45,257
Yeah.

1127
01:13:45,317 --> 01:13:47,877
No, Bitcoin is more than a, than a kilo of gold.

1128
01:13:47,877 --> 01:13:56,737
I just, I just had to check a kilo of gold is like 107,000, 107,000 US petrodollar cuck

1129
01:13:56,737 --> 01:14:02,097
bucks um so bitcoin is uh one bitcoin is more than a kilogram of gold which is pretty wild

1130
01:14:02,097 --> 01:14:07,577
the fact you can teleport gold over the internet like not even gold but better gold like gold

1131
01:14:07,577 --> 01:14:13,558
that's like the technology that's like 100 times better than gold um it is nuts it is literally

1132
01:14:13,558 --> 01:14:17,697
magic internet money like that's why wouldn't you want to play with that technology just like

1133
01:14:17,697 --> 01:14:24,817
the coolest thing ever teleporting like real value um it's it's pretty it's pretty incredible

1134
01:14:24,817 --> 01:14:29,137
um and i feel like i i've been saying this a lot lately but just been thinking about this and just

1135
01:14:29,137 --> 01:14:36,737
i feel so fortunate to like to be alive at this place in space and time like how how lucky are we

1136
01:14:36,737 --> 01:14:41,438
that we get to be around for literally the the dawn of the bitcoin age like it's going to get

1137
01:14:41,438 --> 01:14:46,837
messy in the short term but like long term i am super bullish on on humanity because of what

1138
01:14:46,837 --> 01:14:51,237
bitcoin allows and like that's just a i don't know that's a really cool thing well i always say

1139
01:14:51,237 --> 01:14:55,038
like just imagine if you were the first person to discover the properties of gold and like and no

1140
01:14:55,038 --> 01:14:58,977
one else could like like well it's just like this malleable metal that's like why would you want to

1141
01:14:58,977 --> 01:15:04,998
use that it's kind of like useless and then um it's a very fortunate time everyone who is like

1142
01:15:04,998 --> 01:15:11,217
not partaking or at least like looking into it or at least learning about it you're doing yourself

1143
01:15:11,217 --> 01:15:16,277
a huge disservice because it's like the the best this is the most unique time like think of like

1144
01:15:16,277 --> 01:15:21,217
at cosmological scales like the what's the earth like 4.7 billion years or something and like we're

1145
01:15:21,217 --> 01:15:25,637
at this one moment in time where we create this technology that is perfect scarcity mathematical

1146
01:15:25,637 --> 01:15:29,817
scarcity based off the laws of physics and you're here at this point in time it's like

1147
01:15:29,817 --> 01:15:36,498
and you think it's a scam like can you talk about the biggest fumble of your like entire

1148
01:15:36,498 --> 01:15:42,277
existence i can't think of anything more important to be doing other than building on bitcoins

1149
01:15:42,277 --> 01:15:48,417
nothing else seems as important i like maybe i would have appreciated a bit more if i'm like

1150
01:15:48,417 --> 01:15:53,597
if i you know was born in a time where there's immortality but even like that would be the only

1151
01:15:53,597 --> 01:15:57,377
thing that'd be better than this is like the best time i can think of because every time every every

1152
01:15:57,377 --> 01:16:03,498
point before this point is like like people are having a bad time it's not really a bad time right

1153
01:16:03,498 --> 01:16:08,277
now so no and honestly i go back and forth and the whole immortality thinks like oh boy that

1154
01:16:08,277 --> 01:16:13,777
there it's it always sounds good but you know if i i know anything from science fiction or from

1155
01:16:13,777 --> 01:16:19,097
fantasy it's like there is a dark side to living forever you know especially if everybody else

1156
01:16:19,097 --> 01:16:26,217
around you dies um but i digress no it's it is wild to me that still so many people are absolutely

1157
01:16:26,217 --> 01:16:30,657
asleep at the wheel and i get it from the perspective of like you're dealing with like

1158
01:16:30,657 --> 01:16:33,498
you're trying to provide for your family you're trying to keep your head above water because

1159
01:16:33,498 --> 01:16:38,398
like the system is just you know bleeding you dry and like that that's kind of the sad thing is that

1160
01:16:38,398 --> 01:16:42,417
so many people are so wrapped up in the current system because they are stuck on that hamster

1161
01:16:42,417 --> 01:16:49,018
wheel that they can't dedicate the time to looking at the one thing that would actually save them from

1162
01:16:49,018 --> 01:16:54,877
that like there's a really dark yeah kind of like a really depressing irony there is like well you

1163
01:16:54,877 --> 01:16:59,117
kind of get stuck like because it's like how do you get out of that because you're basically just

1164
01:16:59,117 --> 01:17:03,117
doing you're just just paying you're spending your whole paycheck just to like so you can like pay

1165
01:17:03,117 --> 01:17:08,277
rent um so you're trying to like scrounge a little bit of money and be super disciplined just to put

1166
01:17:08,277 --> 01:17:14,538
little bit away um so i feel like my if i was in that state i would just like what my number one

1167
01:17:14,538 --> 01:17:17,697
goal would be was like try to start a bitcoin business and just try to get as much people

1168
01:17:17,697 --> 01:17:22,417
sending me bitcoin as possible because it's going to be hard to just try to make fiat and then

1169
01:17:22,417 --> 01:17:26,717
buy bitcoin i don't know i feel like the better way to get lots of lots of bitcoin if you had none

1170
01:17:26,717 --> 01:17:31,998
is just try to start a bitcoin business um but i don't know i can't think of any other any other

1171
01:17:31,998 --> 01:17:37,377
better ways really well and it's it's cool too because we're at this point where the because

1172
01:17:37,377 --> 01:17:41,938
we're still very much in the innovator phase like i don't even think we're at the early adopter

1173
01:17:41,938 --> 01:17:45,438
phase yet like if you look like actually from like a technology that you know the s curve

1174
01:17:45,438 --> 01:17:49,518
perspective like i don't think we've actually reached that uh that early adopter phase yet

1175
01:17:49,518 --> 01:17:54,898
uh but because of that we've got a bunch of super hardcore people who like again not everybody wants

1176
01:17:54,898 --> 01:17:58,577
to spend their bitcoin some people don't you know ever want to spend a single sat but like

1177
01:17:58,577 --> 01:18:03,777
for those of us that do like we will support businesses that accept bitcoin and especially

1178
01:18:03,777 --> 01:18:09,257
if you embody that ethos and like that's the great thing about Nostra right now is like you can just

1179
01:18:09,257 --> 01:18:15,137
you can just start a business on Nostra providing a valuable product or service and people will be

1180
01:18:15,137 --> 01:18:20,498
very happy to pay you in Bitcoin for doing that and maybe just send you random zaps along the way

1181
01:18:20,498 --> 01:18:25,598
for for your thoughts about building this you know this Bitcoin business like Ben Ben Justman is a

1182
01:18:25,598 --> 01:18:32,237
great example of that with with Peony Lane wine Ben I'm giving you as many shout outs as possible

1183
01:18:32,237 --> 01:18:36,757
for this because i'm enjoying the heck out of this wine but like like that's an awesome thing

1184
01:18:36,757 --> 01:18:43,697
that you can do that like you can just go start providing value for people charge bitcoin and like

1185
01:18:43,697 --> 01:18:47,757
if what you're providing is valuable and people want it like they will pay you in bitcoin for it

1186
01:18:47,757 --> 01:18:54,498
and the market isn't just like and the market isn't just like your local currency or the currency of

1187
01:18:54,498 --> 01:19:00,477
you know the country and it's the entire planet um so that's a that's a much wider market than uh

1188
01:19:00,477 --> 01:19:01,757
you know,

1189
01:19:01,797 --> 01:19:04,558
cause I remember I was going to a lot of these HRF events and that was,

1190
01:19:04,697 --> 01:19:04,857
they're,

1191
01:19:04,917 --> 01:19:08,617
they're saying people who are in Africa and that was kind of their biggest

1192
01:19:08,617 --> 01:19:12,577
struggle is just trying to get to like sell their products to the wider market.

1193
01:19:12,577 --> 01:19:13,037
And it's like,

1194
01:19:13,037 --> 01:19:13,938
it's really hard to get,

1195
01:19:14,037 --> 01:19:14,577
get it out there,

1196
01:19:14,577 --> 01:19:15,518
but on Bitcoin,

1197
01:19:15,677 --> 01:19:16,598
they can just put it on,

1198
01:19:16,657 --> 01:19:20,518
let's say Noster and start selling their product to anyone in the world without

1199
01:19:20,518 --> 01:19:24,077
having to try to go through all these like resellers like Amazon.

1200
01:19:24,458 --> 01:19:24,537
And,

1201
01:19:24,537 --> 01:19:26,498
and apparently it's just a lot harder to go through.

1202
01:19:26,577 --> 01:19:26,977
I don't know.

1203
01:19:27,077 --> 01:19:27,577
But yeah,

1204
01:19:28,157 --> 01:19:28,977
there's a lot of opportunities.

1205
01:19:28,977 --> 01:19:34,577
And I think that we're going to get better and better marketplaces and storefronts on Noster, like something I've been thinking about a lot as well.

1206
01:19:35,317 --> 01:19:36,637
We're starting to see more of that.

1207
01:19:36,998 --> 01:19:41,777
So, yeah, it's going to get easier and easier to start a business on Noster and to start selling stuff.

1208
01:19:41,938 --> 01:19:43,157
So it's exciting times.

1209
01:19:44,098 --> 01:19:55,898
I think that's like another thing where it's like if you're a Noster only business, which I think some of these folks are like, you know, if you want to get them, you have to go to Noster to find them.

1210
01:19:55,898 --> 01:20:03,277
like the that sort of no stir only uh product for and also like no stir only services uh and that

1211
01:20:03,277 --> 01:20:08,237
including like content creation like i love what american hodl is doing right now with his you know

1212
01:20:08,237 --> 01:20:13,117
no stir only vlogs like because he's a guy who has a every everybody listens when he talks right

1213
01:20:13,117 --> 01:20:18,518
and uh he's because he's very enjoyable to listen to and he always drops very profound things in his

1214
01:20:18,518 --> 01:20:25,877
very special way but like he could be you know going on x and you know doing you know live stream

1215
01:20:25,877 --> 01:20:30,177
on there and vlogs on there and posting these things to YouTube or wherever, you know, wherever

1216
01:20:30,177 --> 01:20:36,958
else. But he's not. He's making a conscious choice to say, I'm just going to do this for

1217
01:20:36,958 --> 01:20:40,977
Noster only. And I think that's, that's like really cool. It's why I do these live streams

1218
01:20:40,977 --> 01:20:44,237
just on Noster. And like, yeah, I publish them everywhere else after the fact. I'm not

1219
01:20:44,237 --> 01:20:53,558
quite as cool as American HODL. But like, I think that kind of like creators or especially creators

1220
01:20:53,558 --> 01:20:59,297
creating experiences that can only be had on Noster, I think is a really great way to,

1221
01:20:59,398 --> 01:21:03,177
to bring more and more people over. Cause it's like, if you like, that's a, that's a powerful

1222
01:21:03,177 --> 01:21:09,277
thing. People, uh, audiences follow people, right. And if you can only get a certain type of content

1223
01:21:09,277 --> 01:21:12,877
on this decentralized censorship resistant platform, it also happens to have a really

1224
01:21:12,877 --> 01:21:18,677
nice user experience for you and multiple choices and options. Like that's a great thing. So I hope

1225
01:21:18,677 --> 01:21:23,537
I encourage creators like to, to do more of that. If you can think of a way, uh, and you certainly

1226
01:21:23,537 --> 01:21:28,137
can. And I always see that as a sign of someone with great integrity and someone who's like

1227
01:21:28,137 --> 01:21:32,777
willing to sacrifice maybe a little bit of a bit of their, you know, because it's an opportunity

1228
01:21:32,777 --> 01:21:36,898
costing. They could be spending time like getting onto the bigger platforms or promoting their

1229
01:21:36,898 --> 01:21:42,237
content, but they believe in something that's like important. It's bigger than just making money.

1230
01:21:42,898 --> 01:21:46,797
And, um, and, but these, these are the things, these are, these are the types of people that

1231
01:21:46,797 --> 01:21:50,938
are going to make Nostra successful because the only thing that's going to draw people to Nostra

1232
01:21:50,938 --> 01:21:55,037
is like unique content if it's just getting cross-posted to other platforms i'm like well

1233
01:21:55,037 --> 01:21:58,898
they don't need to leave their platform so if they see like wait there's just so much stuff i'm like

1234
01:21:58,898 --> 01:22:02,077
oh i'm like well i have to go over here because this is where everyone's posting the interesting

1235
01:22:02,077 --> 01:22:06,637
things i want to see so that's why i've always been really in the past like i guess two or three

1236
01:22:06,637 --> 01:22:11,377
years now ever since i quit twitter is just um just try to yeah post everything i'm working on

1237
01:22:11,377 --> 01:22:17,018
every day probably too much because i'm just like i work in the open but um you know maybe it's

1238
01:22:17,018 --> 01:22:19,737
probably doing disservice in ostrich because some people are like oh god he's posting some crazy

1239
01:22:19,737 --> 01:22:24,337
shit again and they end up going away to back to the x but no but i think it's like people who

1240
01:22:24,337 --> 01:22:30,137
post better content is uh hopefully will it be the people who are attracting uh uh everyone else so

1241
01:22:30,137 --> 01:22:35,857
i'm not good at influencing i'm just good at uh i don't know posting crazy shit yeah but like but

1242
01:22:35,857 --> 01:22:41,137
influencing takes different forms right i think it's become such like a dirty word too uh but like

1243
01:22:41,137 --> 01:22:45,498
you know like what is it what does it actually mean it means that like whatever you say and do

1244
01:22:45,498 --> 01:22:50,237
people pay attention to like you like you obviously like you are more than uh you know i'm not going

1245
01:22:50,237 --> 01:22:54,018
to call you like you're just an influencer you're obviously a developer is actually building cool

1246
01:22:54,018 --> 01:22:59,197
shit um but like you do also influence people like very obviously like you've influenced people

1247
01:22:59,197 --> 01:23:03,217
enough where you have a whole team around you building this open source you know tech stack

1248
01:23:03,217 --> 01:23:08,938
like that that i don't know what that is if not uh if not having influence and like i think i'm

1249
01:23:08,938 --> 01:23:14,898
like i think it's fucking cool you influence me wild bill so there's that well i always say that

1250
01:23:14,898 --> 01:23:20,337
I agree that it has become like a derogatory term almost, but you're exactly, you're absolutely

1251
01:23:20,337 --> 01:23:20,598
right.

1252
01:23:20,677 --> 01:23:24,598
It's like, it's impossible not to, anytime you put something into the internet, even

1253
01:23:24,598 --> 01:23:27,598
if you don't think you're influencing people, it's like, you're literally influencing people.

1254
01:23:27,598 --> 01:23:31,398
Like every, every time that note goes into every brain, it's an influencing that brain

1255
01:23:31,398 --> 01:23:31,857
in some way.

1256
01:23:31,898 --> 01:23:34,877
It's like either making them happy, making them sad, making them angry.

1257
01:23:35,518 --> 01:23:38,657
It's like impossible not to influence people, even if, yeah.

1258
01:23:38,757 --> 01:23:39,297
So I don't know.

1259
01:23:39,377 --> 01:23:40,117
Everyone's an influencer.

1260
01:23:40,117 --> 01:23:49,737
it it makes you uh makes you kind of be a little bit more i guess mindful of what you're putting

1261
01:23:49,737 --> 01:23:53,777
out there too like knowing that whatever you do is going to have some sort of impact on people

1262
01:23:53,777 --> 01:23:58,297
um i myself am guilty of not being super mindful about that sometimes because i'm just like hey i'm

1263
01:23:58,297 --> 01:24:05,977
just gonna troll yeah got him uh but you know i do find that i am perhaps i'm at the same time

1264
01:24:05,977 --> 01:24:10,977
more mindful of what I put out, but also more free on Noster. And I think this has been a common

1265
01:24:10,977 --> 01:24:16,018
experience for a lot of people is that they feel that like you can just kind of be like, you don't

1266
01:24:16,018 --> 01:24:22,697
have to be anything but yourself. Like there's, because honestly, like authenticity is rewarded

1267
01:24:22,697 --> 01:24:26,677
on Noster and fakeness is rejected. Like you see, that's why a lot of people can feel that.

1268
01:24:26,938 --> 01:24:30,417
Yeah. Like bigger account, you know, quote, bigger accounts, like kind of, you know,

1269
01:24:30,417 --> 01:24:35,058
maybe came and went from Noster, but like, you know, you've got folks that are, have came and

1270
01:24:35,058 --> 01:24:40,458
stayed uh like you know like lynn alden for example who posts stuff exclusively uh to noser

1271
01:24:40,458 --> 01:24:45,817
like very unfiltered thoughts on there i mean jack as another great example a huge i mean you know

1272
01:24:45,817 --> 01:24:52,677
a very well-known person who has spent a lot of time on noser posting thoughts that are exclusively

1273
01:24:52,677 --> 01:24:58,817
found there like that you know and people have come over specifically to be able to partake in

1274
01:24:58,817 --> 01:25:04,857
those you know unrestricted uh thoughts that people like jack and and lynn but also that people

1275
01:25:04,857 --> 01:25:09,297
with way smaller you know followings have put out there so like i think that's good like we

1276
01:25:09,297 --> 01:25:14,177
content creators are ultimately or not just content creators like again that's that word

1277
01:25:14,177 --> 01:25:18,938
feels like all these words feel dirty now like we're all just people right but like yeah people

1278
01:25:18,938 --> 01:25:24,277
have followings now in cyberspace and if you have a large following in cyberspace and you bring that

1279
01:25:24,277 --> 01:25:30,377
following over to Noster that will help grow Noster like full stop like so I I hope we continue

1280
01:25:30,377 --> 01:25:34,717
to see more of that I think it's honestly going to take another round of vicious censorship and

1281
01:25:34,717 --> 01:25:41,337
crackdowns did you see any spikes like recently in the UK or I think so I mean I definitely

1282
01:25:41,337 --> 01:25:45,837
notice a lot more people on the network um and I assume that's because especially like I did that

1283
01:25:45,837 --> 01:25:50,137
tweet about like scanning the anus or whatever for some reason that like went viral on us

1284
01:25:50,137 --> 01:25:55,317
like the post was like oh yeah they're gonna start scanning your faith in the

1285
01:25:55,317 --> 01:26:00,598
so apparently people that really resonated with people because it's true it's kind of like that's

1286
01:26:00,598 --> 01:26:04,277
what it feels like they're just like it's so invasive and the things they're doing feels so

1287
01:26:04,277 --> 01:26:11,977
unnatural as like like they're just being gross right um but uh yeah it's it's uh it's true that

1288
01:26:11,977 --> 01:26:16,598
like what you're saying about um the whole reputation and like you can't being fake it's

1289
01:26:16,598 --> 01:26:22,337
it's like reputation is everything it's you know your identity is a tied your key there's no

1290
01:26:22,337 --> 01:26:27,817
algorithms that can like pump um so like one of the first things that's a few influencers and

1291
01:26:27,817 --> 01:26:31,617
like not influencers but like basically content oh god i can't even use the words but content

1292
01:26:31,617 --> 01:26:35,677
creators that they came to me and they're like how do i go viral on your platform like what do

1293
01:26:35,677 --> 01:26:40,058
i have to do how do i like game the algorithm so that i get and like that was their mentality

1294
01:26:40,058 --> 01:26:46,737
because like that's how they operated on instagram or whatever and um and but like that's how they

1295
01:26:46,737 --> 01:26:50,098
get influenced but they don't get it through authenticity they don't get it through like

1296
01:26:50,098 --> 01:26:54,477
like well i mean interesting content sure but they rely a lot on those algorithms kind of pump their

1297
01:26:54,477 --> 01:26:59,857
content but on nostr it's like you kind of really have to rely on like your reputation your reputation

1298
01:26:59,857 --> 01:27:04,857
is everything the minute you trash your reputation which is tied to a key like a publicly verifiable

1299
01:27:04,857 --> 01:27:09,317
key it's like then you kind of like you lose and that's the most important thing so i don't know i

1300
01:27:09,317 --> 01:27:13,018
feel like a lot of people people are a lot more authentic on austere and that's honestly just made

1301
01:27:13,018 --> 01:27:17,558
the network feel more like a community of people who are just like real people and not just like

1302
01:27:17,558 --> 01:27:22,797
this fake games that people are playing just to go viral and just to get in fights and stuff

1303
01:27:22,797 --> 01:27:28,877
i don't know so it feels much more like a human network yeah it's like you're if you're fake it's

1304
01:27:28,877 --> 01:27:33,637
like you're like literally cryptographically siding away your your soul like it's like you

1305
01:27:33,637 --> 01:27:37,877
just you just sold your soul and put your cryptographic signature on it so like ever

1306
01:27:37,877 --> 01:27:44,737
everybody now you know can see that yeah it's it's it's not i mean i think that the growth is

1307
01:27:44,737 --> 01:27:51,058
honestly going to be fairly slow and steady still with these kind of pumps as we saw but i'm also

1308
01:27:51,058 --> 01:27:56,817
hopeful that like the great thing about the fiat world is like man governments just love to do

1309
01:27:56,817 --> 01:28:02,438
stupid totalitarian shit so like i think that's only going to accelerate ultimately and so maybe

1310
01:28:02,438 --> 01:28:08,477
we get a lot faster growth than than we think and in the meantime like all of these incredible

1311
01:28:08,477 --> 01:28:11,817
tools like the tools that you were building like the tools that so many open source devs are

1312
01:28:11,817 --> 01:28:17,617
building these tools are getting better and better and better every day and finding new ways to you

1313
01:28:17,617 --> 01:28:24,717
know uh be interoperable together and like that like like noster is ready for for you know larger

1314
01:28:24,717 --> 01:28:28,757
adoption now like for a while like it kind of you know like wasn't like i mean you've been there

1315
01:28:28,757 --> 01:28:33,037
since the beginning you know like things were things were quick and dirty you know but like

1316
01:28:33,037 --> 01:28:38,817
the experience is just night and day different now and so if somebody's listening to this and

1317
01:28:38,817 --> 01:28:43,217
they've made it this far and they checked out Noster like a year ago or like two years ago

1318
01:28:43,217 --> 01:28:48,197
and said oh this isn't I don't like that like just try it again you know and if you don't like the

1319
01:28:48,197 --> 01:28:53,077
client that you tried try a different one you know try try Domus try other ones like that's

1320
01:28:53,077 --> 01:28:56,837
the great thing there's optionality like you can choose so many options there's so many options

1321
01:28:56,837 --> 01:29:00,637
there's jumble social which everyone really likes right now um i haven't used that one yet

1322
01:29:00,637 --> 01:29:06,797
oh it's like it's kind of the new hotness yeah jumbled on social i'm behind the times jeez they

1323
01:29:06,797 --> 01:29:11,757
have like a really cool like two um panel display where you can like scroll on one and click it

1324
01:29:11,757 --> 01:29:15,498
opens up on the other side like i want to steal so many things and they have like a relay viewer

1325
01:29:15,498 --> 01:29:18,537
and stuff i'm like i really like that idea i don't know it's just like really people are building

1326
01:29:18,537 --> 01:29:24,377
good stuff i i love it um is there anything else that you're working on that you want to talk about

1327
01:29:24,377 --> 01:29:25,477
I've kept you here for a while.

1328
01:29:25,558 --> 01:29:30,337
So just, but I want to make sure like there's anything else you want to tease, anything else you want to preview.

1329
01:29:30,498 --> 01:29:34,317
Obviously people should go, uh, should go check out, uh, Domus and use it.

1330
01:29:34,377 --> 01:29:35,137
It's a great client.

1331
01:29:35,197 --> 01:29:36,737
It's a client that I use every single day.

1332
01:29:37,217 --> 01:29:39,197
Um, I am not paid to say that either.

1333
01:29:39,477 --> 01:29:45,117
Uh, just like I'm not paid to drink Peony Rain wine, but I sure am given it, uh, by Ben.

1334
01:29:45,117 --> 01:29:46,417
You would like some more bottles in the future.

1335
01:29:46,417 --> 01:29:50,697
And I hope I did good, Ben, because boy, this, this wine is excellent.

1336
01:29:50,697 --> 01:29:55,577
but where what else do you want people to know or where do you want to send people uh yeah

1337
01:29:55,577 --> 01:30:01,498
shill anything and everything yeah so i highly recommend trying out our new client it works on

1338
01:30:01,498 --> 01:30:06,598
the desktop you can go to damas.io slash notedeck to download it although that build is old i should

1339
01:30:06,598 --> 01:30:11,757
probably push a new build uh at the end of the month i will be announcing a new client that runs

1340
01:30:11,757 --> 01:30:16,717
on mobiles and you can probably guess which mobile client that is so come check it out bitcoin asia

1341
01:30:16,717 --> 01:30:18,977
and yeah

1342
01:30:18,977 --> 01:30:19,337
it's

1343
01:30:19,337 --> 01:30:21,117
and you know

1344
01:30:21,117 --> 01:30:22,058
our future prospects

1345
01:30:22,058 --> 01:30:23,058
for Notetech

1346
01:30:23,058 --> 01:30:24,157
are a little

1347
01:30:24,157 --> 01:30:26,018
there's a lot

1348
01:30:26,018 --> 01:30:26,458
like I think

1349
01:30:26,458 --> 01:30:27,417
I've talked about it before

1350
01:30:27,417 --> 01:30:28,697
but it's not just

1351
01:30:28,697 --> 01:30:29,217
another client

1352
01:30:29,217 --> 01:30:29,677
it's going to be

1353
01:30:29,677 --> 01:30:30,417
a new type of

1354
01:30:30,417 --> 01:30:31,558
platform for building

1355
01:30:31,558 --> 01:30:32,257
Nostra apps

1356
01:30:32,257 --> 01:30:34,617
so yeah

1357
01:30:34,617 --> 01:30:35,237
definitely check it out

1358
01:30:35,237 --> 01:30:36,377
you'll get a sense of it

1359
01:30:36,377 --> 01:30:37,317
when you download it

1360
01:30:37,317 --> 01:30:37,938
because we have like

1361
01:30:37,938 --> 01:30:39,117
an AI agent inside of it

1362
01:30:39,117 --> 01:30:39,458
it's kind of like

1363
01:30:39,458 --> 01:30:40,217
Grok for Nostra

1364
01:30:40,217 --> 01:30:40,717
we have

1365
01:30:40,717 --> 01:30:42,197
I'm building this like

1366
01:30:42,197 --> 01:30:43,637
tool that you can like

1367
01:30:43,637 --> 01:30:44,317
you know

1368
01:30:44,317 --> 01:30:45,177
if anyone's ever used

1369
01:30:45,177 --> 01:30:45,577
Obsidian

1370
01:30:45,577 --> 01:30:46,598
it's like Obsidian

1371
01:30:46,598 --> 01:30:48,598
on Noster. We have like, I have a built-in

1372
01:30:48,598 --> 01:30:50,717
lightning node manager in it now.

1373
01:30:50,797 --> 01:30:51,837
So it's basically like an

1374
01:30:51,837 --> 01:30:53,998
app browser for Noster

1375
01:30:53,998 --> 01:30:56,297
that's like going to support

1376
01:30:56,297 --> 01:30:58,498
dynamic loading of apps. Anyway, so it's like,

1377
01:30:58,577 --> 01:31:00,237
it's really cool. New technology. Check it out.

1378
01:31:00,938 --> 01:31:02,177
Yeah, and you can follow me on Noster,

1379
01:31:02,357 --> 01:31:04,477
JB55 at JB55.com.

1380
01:31:04,598 --> 01:31:06,417
It's my Noster address. So, yeah.

1381
01:31:06,917 --> 01:31:08,558
Oh, man. Thanks so much for coming on again.

1382
01:31:08,637 --> 01:31:10,477
This was long overdue.

1383
01:31:10,558 --> 01:31:12,617
It's always great chatting with you. I will not

1384
01:31:12,617 --> 01:31:14,498
be at Bitcoin

1385
01:31:14,498 --> 01:31:16,498
Asia, unfortunately. I'll have to check out the

1386
01:31:16,498 --> 01:31:21,197
stream. Um, but hopefully we get a chance to reconvene in the flesh again soon. Have a,

1387
01:31:21,297 --> 01:31:28,598
have a drink together in person. Absolutely. Maybe, hopefully. I was going to say,

1388
01:31:29,197 --> 01:31:36,817
thanks so much. And thank you to everybody who joined in on the live stream. I appreciate you

1389
01:31:36,817 --> 01:31:42,277
guys. If you want to watch this show live, the only place you can do that is on Noster. So go

1390
01:31:42,277 --> 01:31:47,477
and check out Noster and uh come and watch this show live in the future yeah and thank you to

1391
01:31:47,477 --> 01:31:52,098
everybody who joined and thank you to everybody who zapped too 5,282 sats that's that's pretty

1392
01:31:52,098 --> 01:31:57,037
cool wow that's generational wealth that's nice i'm gonna go zap it all away now uh you know pay

1393
01:31:57,037 --> 01:32:05,157
it forward but rp and y on on me maybe maybe all right man cheers all right cheers bye

1394
01:32:12,277 --> 01:32:18,058
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin Talk episode of The Bitcoin Podcast.

1395
01:32:18,697 --> 01:32:22,637
Remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you're watching or listening

1396
01:32:22,637 --> 01:32:26,958
and share it with your friends, family, and strangers on the internet.

1397
01:32:26,958 --> 01:32:33,637
Find me on Noster at primal.net slash walker and this podcast at primal.net slash titcoin.

1398
01:32:34,237 --> 01:32:37,518
On X, YouTube, and Rumble, just search at Walker America.

1399
01:32:38,098 --> 01:32:42,257
And find this podcast on X and Instagram at titcoinpodcast.

1400
01:32:42,277 --> 01:32:53,657
Head to the show notes to grab sponsor links, head to substack.com slash at Walker America to get episodes emailed to you and head to Bitcoin podcast dot net for everything else.

1401
01:32:54,197 --> 01:32:57,757
Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant.

1402
01:32:58,257 --> 01:33:03,377
So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to the Bitcoin podcast.

1403
01:33:03,877 --> 01:33:06,417
Until next time, stay free.

1404
01:33:12,277 --> 01:33:12,577
Thank you.