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there's like a satoshi quote of it might not be the solution but it will buy some time in the in

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the war for freedom and and really if you look back to like the early cypherpunks and just

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cryptography in general like the powers that cryptography offer the individual and if you

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haven't read crypto sovereignty by eric case and i definitely recommend it but the power that

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cryptography offers the individual and cryptography enables not just bitcoin right bitcoin is just the

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best money that we found to use with cryptography but cryptography underpins everything we do in

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our digital modern age and enabling the average person to use cryptography to protect themselves

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from people that would wish them harm or ill will to their way of life is a powerful concept.

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And with open source technology and the jet fuel that is Bitcoin, sending all of the idealistic

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Bitcoiners into the top tier of elite society, cryptography is only going to accelerate from

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here. And open source technology is one of the means that we're going to accelerate it.

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Greetings and salutations, my fellow plebs.

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My name is Walker and this is the Bitcoin Podcast.

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Bitcoin continues to create new blocks every 10 minutes

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and the value of one Bitcoin is still one Bitcoin.

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If you are listening to this right now, remember, you are still early.

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Find me on Noster at primal.net slash Walker and this podcast at primal.net slash Titcoin.

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On X, YouTube, and Rumble, just search at Walker America.

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And find this podcast on X and Instagram at Titcoin Podcast.

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Head to the show notes for sponsor links.

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Head to substack.com slash at Walker America to get episodes emailed to you.

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And head to bitcoinpodcast.net for everything else.

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without further ado let's get into this bitcoin talk

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okay gary welcome i'm sorry for that snafu on the live streaming i'm offended i'm just gonna

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leave now i'm sorry my you know blame it on my producer uh his name's walter and he's just a

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real shitbag can't can't get anything right honestly it's it's embarrassing i might have

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to fire this guy. Oh, you'll save a lot of money by firing him. Yeah, I hope so. I hope so. He's

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just honestly just kind of like not pulling his weight and really bad attitude on this guy. So

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yeah, we're going to have to get rid of him. But dude, welcome. We saw each other in DC, which was

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a very interesting experience for me. I don't know how you're doing the day. Did you do the

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day on the hill stuff too? You did go talk to folks, right? I did do the day on the hill.

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how how was that for you because that for me that was uh eye-opening to put it nicely

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yeah i mean it's going to depend right because we all went to go talk to different people

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um i met the most promising thing so i'm in virginia and so tim kane who is hillary's

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running mate in 2016 is my senator and so i went and met with him and i was like this is gonna be

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weird yeah um but generally i don't know there was like a representative from arizona i just like

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tagged along with somebody else and like her staffer was like i have no idea anything you

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guys are talking about so like please explain it to me and we did like a live lightning transaction

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her mind was blown and i think i nailed it because i talked about uh like security and consumer

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protection because you're not sharing your secret information when you're giving when you're paying

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bitcoin but with a credit card you have to like give the secret number on the back of your credit

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card and the lady was like i just had debit card fraud and i had to like close all my accounts and

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get new cards issued and everything so it like nailed that one um and then my representative

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actually came out of his meeting to like come meet with the group of us that was there and then

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i ended up giving him this like uh national security book that like some of the guys from

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bpi and like it's got like matt pines and um some other things but it covers like policy ideas and

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stuff like that and so i was like hey i've got these books to give you and uh ended up giving

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that to one of their staffers. So if nothing else, they at least like, you know, wanted books and

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they were engaging via email afterwards. But the Tim Kaine thing, like I got all the normal FUD of

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whatever, but, you know, still met with like a senior staffer. I don't know if that means

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anything. It's just like an older dude. It wasn't like some young intern. So maybe that meant

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something about it, but. It sounds like yours was, was perhaps slightly more successful than,

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uh,

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than ours was.

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We're in Illinois.

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And like,

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why is that?

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Well,

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so,

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uh,

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we actually,

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we got a chance to meet with our,

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our senators.

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They were doing like,

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it wasn't like an individual meeting.

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It was like a,

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some sort of like a call,

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you know,

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a coffee and,

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and like meet and greet with,

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or a bunch of people like bring their grievances and such.

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Oh geez.

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And then the,

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and the senators,

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you know,

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pontificate and it's Dick Durbin and Tammy Duckworth.

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And yeah.

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Um,

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and Dick Durbin is like,

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I think like 83 or something like that. Like he's really old. And I just, I went in there and I asked

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him, I was trying to be like very, went in there in good faith, you know, but they're like, who,

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you know, go around the room, you know, who are you here? Who do you, who are you here with? Who

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do you represent? Oh, you know, we're at the Bitcoin policy Institute. And, uh, you know,

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we're, we're here to advocate on behalf of, you know, Bitcoin and, and, you know, not crypto and

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try to really drive that home. And like every meeting we had, like the, this is some, this is

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a different thing because they they lump everything together because they're like well bitcoin so you

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must be a fan of trump coin then aren't and you're like well no actually we think that's a garbage

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scam um it has nothing to do with bitcoin at all like that's that's your starting point right like

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that's where you're starting from um and uh and then there was so i gave the introduction okay it

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was all fine dick turban like asked like right off the bat like oh and so do you support the genius

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act and like and i'm like uh i honestly don't care about it at all again has nothing to do with

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bitcoin um and you know so then he's like uh then it gets like the q a part and just to set the

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stage for this the other people that were in the room were like they're like a bunch of nurses

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there or like a kid whose father had uh had uh had taken his own life um the year before and was

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like advocating on behalf of mental like and some like really like heavy and and important stuff and

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like really tragic stuff yeah and then we're there like well we're going to talk about bitcoin you

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And so maybe the optics weren't great on that, but it is what it is.

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A lot of the other problems that people were talking about didn't say this, but I'm thinking,

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I'm like, boy, a lot of this just traces back to the money being broken, doesn't it?

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But he asked, okay, does anybody have any questions for us?

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Nobody's asking questions, so I stand up and ask a question.

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Senator, you signed a letter with Elizabeth Warren to Fidelity telling them that you strongly recommend

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they do not allow their clients to have exposure to Bitcoin when Bitcoin was at $20,000 in the

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depths of the bear market in 2022. So I'm just wondering with Bitcoin now 5x that has your

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position changed on that at all? You said that it wasn't a reliable store value, et cetera, et cetera.

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I'd love to hear how you've updated your position. And basically he just goes off on a rant about,

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he's like, well, I brought crypto fraud, ATM crypto fraud legislation to the floor. And then

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this Sam Bankman Freed guy, and it's like, respectfully, sir, I'm sorry, that's great.

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None of us like fraud, but that has nothing to do with Bitcoin.

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And again, it went like this.

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And then at one point, he's like, well, you need to clean up your act, son.

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Your industry needs to, and I'm like, I need to clean up.

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Sam Bankman Freed is now my fault.

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People running scams at crypto ATMs are now my fault.

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What is happening?

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A couple of the other people we were with were like, sir, we all agree that's a problem.

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Like none of us want fraud, but that happens with or without, you know, Bitcoin.

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You know, like this happens all the time, these sorts of scams, like, and that's terrible.

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We should do something about that.

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But respectfully, it has nothing to do with it.

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And he was just like not having it got superheated.

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And then eventually it was just like, I'm not talking about Bitcoin anymore.

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And then it was like, well, that is that.

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So that was that was that interaction.

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We did have like a couple of positive ones with like, uh, senior staffers, uh, where they were like, listen, one of them literally told us, they're like, listen, the, the Congresswoman is like 85 and she's retiring like after this.

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So like, she's never going to vote in a, in a pro Bitcoin way, but she's retiring.

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So like, just so you know, and I'm like, well, I appreciate the, you know, the honesty there.

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Some of them were kind of open to learning.

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um some of them i was like you are just like you are fresh out of college and you have no idea what's

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going on and you're interfacing like you're basically writing policy that your 80 some

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year old representative then takes to the floor like what is this system that we have this explains

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why shit is so broken like my god this is insane so yeah that that was my experience was like

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got out of those first couple meetings got to that the bar meetup midday and i was like i'm

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pounding a couple of Miller lights because I cannot go into these afternoon ones completely

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sober. But then I was told it's okay because it's DC and everybody day drinks all the time.

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So that checks out. Yeah. I don't go there often, but when I do, uh, it's not during the day.

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You prefer to day drink. I don't prefer to drink at all. Actually. I'm more of a,

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a cannabis enjoyer. Okay. Okay. There's, there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Um, I'm sure

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that many in DC are also cannabis enjoyers. Oh yeah. Enjoyers of all things. Right. But yeah,

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it was interesting bpi did an awesome job uh even though from what i hear on the interwebs now that

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they're all spooks which uh is uh yeah me too like i used to be a spook like that's what i did

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in the navy was i was a spook i was a chinese linguist can you talk about that a little bit

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without without uh yeah you know spook uh without doxing yourself too much like can you can you get

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into that a little because when i found that out i was like what is happening here so i mean

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starry-eyed out of high school like i enlisted at 17 because uh the psyops of like socom u.s navy

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seals on the playstation 2 like worked really well call of duty really well and so i'm like sweet i'm

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gonna sign up to serve um ended up joining the navy instead of like any of the other you know

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more like combat focused ones because my girlfriend at the time was uh against it but i did 11 years

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four months and three days in the navy um two years of that was language school where they

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taught me Chinese Mandarin. And then four years I spent out in Hawaii, um, listening to static

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and translating Chinese for strategic intelligence purposes. Uh, did a little tour in Afghanistan

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while I was there. And then I spent the final five years, um, in SOCOM doing like black box radio

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stuff for all the cool guys. So it's like, put the black box in my backpack, try to keep up with

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all these like special operations guys and then make sure that you know they have the intelligence

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picture in the tactical environment right so it's like indications and warnings was one of the

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buzzwords of like hey there's a guy over here and he's talking about blowing us up and then that was

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like what we trained to and also just general uh counter-terrorism activities of like where's this

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guy at based on all of his devices etc have you ever seen zero dark 30 i have not actually so

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there's a scene in there where like a guy's in a band and it's like a little blip on the map like

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i was the guy in the band basically right i was not like a cool guy by any means but i was the guy

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that would be like yep he's uh over here based on my intelligence yeah did you uh did you enjoy that

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uh at all like yeah so man that's an it's a loaded question i know no no yeah it goes like at the

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same time uh i'm living with one of my best friends um and getting like liberty pilled like

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truly you know because like i signed up like freedom and democracy american way all that stuff

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right and then i'm starting to learn about like libertarianism and like the actual ideals of

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individualism and sovereignty and everything like that and at the same time i'm like the action arm

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of you know the war machine and so that was like a really weird time um but i i enjoyed the people

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like it's because it was like on the special operations side of the things there was a

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screening process to get into that program and so it wasn't like your run-of-the-mill like

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military folks right there was still like you had to be um you had to be good to get into it and then

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that kind of bled into like it was a lot of people that were like down to just get shit done

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like put their heads down do the work uh motivated now where we uh misguided as all people and the

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dood were for like what we were doing with this like counterterrorism stuff like yes definitely

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um but i enjoyed the people that i worked with and one of my one of the roles that we trained

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to and stuff was like to make everybody aware so that we could all be safe right now there's

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obviously like the offensive side of that which was um ideally i never had like i've never been

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shot at never blown up like the closest was like mortars landing in afghanistan on the same base

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that I was on, which is pretty jarring.

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You feel a concussive blast of it,

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depending on how close it is.

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But I was very fortunate.

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I'm lucky that I never saw actual combat

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where I'm taking rounds and sending rounds back

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and everything like that.

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But all around, I would have stayed in

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if the Navy was actually good

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at maintaining talent and retention.

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I tried to go into the cyber field, right?

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And I even took this test and passed the test.

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And the Navy was like,

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no, we need you to be a Chinese linguist

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or send you back to the fleet.

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and like the regular Navy and you're going to do all this other not fun stuff.

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And I was like, yeah, no, fuck that.

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I'll just get a job out and about and left.

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And so landed at Microsoft.

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Was that a common thing amongst your peers as well,

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where it's like they wanted to be able to move into a different area

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and then ended up going into the private sector

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just because like things were mismanaged?

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Was that a fairly common occurrence?

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Yeah, it happened.

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I mean, I got out.

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So like 11 years, you know, 20 years is like the pension point

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where you get a retirement paycheck for the rest of your life, period.

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So a lot of guys, once they hit that point, they were like,

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well, I might as well just do the final nine years

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and collect a pension or whatever and take easy jobs if you wanted.

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Staying within the community I was in was also very ideal.

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I was kind of verbally slotted to go into an R&D

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at a higher headquarters to do really cool R&D tech work.

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Now I find myself doing cool R&D tech work open source.

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I'm still scratching that itch.

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So, I mean, all things considered, you know, it was a cool job and I enjoyed my time.

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I don't regret it by any means because you only know what you know up until a certain point.

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But I'm very glad that I got out when I did, which was the end of 2019, right before the world went to shit.

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And I'm glad that I got this like new perspective of the world on like what it actually means to have freedom and liberty.

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And like democracy is this like bullshit idea.

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right like by the end of it i was like yeah i'm done completely done with this right the navy was

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not like giving me what i wanted um it was arguably a good deal in my opinion because like

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hey i want to go do this other thing that you guys also need people for but because of the big

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bureaucracy and like numbers and it's all you're just a number right you're a cog in the machine

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they're like well we don't have enough cogs right here and you need to stay right there

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and we're not going to take you and move your cog over to this other place because um it's actually

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doing okay. So I said, all right, fuck it, I'm out. Whether you're mining Bitcoin, buying Bitcoin,

226
00:15:47,420 --> 00:15:52,960
or earning Bitcoin, you need to make sure you keep those coins safe by going to bitbox.swiss

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Plus, I cannot emphasize enough that the Bitbox O2 is easy as hell to use, whether you're brand

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233
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psychopath. It is Bitcoin only and again, fully open source, head to their GitHub and verify that

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for yourself. No need to trust me or Bitbox. And when you go to bitbox.swiss slash walker and use

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00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:49,460
So thank you. I mean, first of all, thank you for your service. And I've said this to you in

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person as well. Like I mean that when I say it, because I think a lot of people, let me put it

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this way. The veterans that I've talked to and the veterans I've talked to through Bitcoin,

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like to a man. And of course I haven't met every veteran that has ever existed. Obviously this is

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anecdotal experience but but to a man they've been great human beings who joined up because

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they really believed that they were making a positive impact and would you know would help

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keep folks safe here at home like hearts could not have been in more of a right place yep uh

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and then when it comes to the bitcoin veterans that i've had the pleasure of getting to know

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it's like they had this experience of similar to you kind of like going down the rabbit hole of

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of liberty and freedom and libertarianism or maybe even of bitcoin depending on what time they were

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in the service as they were in the service and then having this kind of like oh shit moment of

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like maybe maybe everything that i was told and and believed wasn't wasn't what i thought it was

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maybe i was kind of maybe i was misled a little bit and like i don't blame the individuals for

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that because this is the most powerful propaganda machine in the history of the world right like it

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We're talking about the military industrial complex, right?

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This is it.

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This is the pinnacle of that.

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And so it's like, but now you guys are all the most hardcore.

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You still have your hearts in the right place.

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And now you have seen how the sausage is made and are outside of that machine doing incredible work still.

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And I just think that's like, I'm just so bullish on Bitcoin veterans.

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Well, thank you.

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I mean, the Bitcoin veterans, I mean, the tagline that I like to phrase it as is like, we're educating the warrior class on Bitcoin, right?

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Because a lot of the dudes that I served with and that I know and all the Bitcoin veterans for the most part, once you figure out Bitcoin, once you figure out there's this tool, right?

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And we know how to use tools, right?

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It's we know how to get things done, organize, like execute all these different tasks.

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And it's also one of the things you learn in the military because you have to break down to like the lowest common denominator.

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You learn how to like convey messaging, right?

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So one of the things I had to do a lot was convey like technical details in a very like understandable way.

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But that's common across the board, especially those guys that served for a long time.

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And so you get people that are motivated, that know how to actually like execute and have like discipline.

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And a lot of guys fall lax to the discipline part, but they know how to do it when they need it.

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And so, I mean, it's crazy how big this Bitcoin veterans group has grown since it started.

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It started as like a Twitter group chat and like Twitter spaces and stuff like that.

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They're still running like a Twitter daily spaces or whatever, but we have a bunch of signal group chats.

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of nothing but veterans across the United States.

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And some of them are foreign.

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There's a dude from Australia in there.

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But they're all just actively engaged in meetups or whatever.

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They're doing things with Bitcoin.

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And even if it is just hodling and being the best plumber that they can be,

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they're still doing the thing.

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And once you realize you have a tool to spread these actual ideals

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of individualism and liberty, and you don't have to hurt anyone,

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that is immensely...

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Because one of the things you get signed up for is like, oh, we're going to go defend the homeland, right?

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Like we got to make sure that we take it over there so they don't come back over here.

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It's like, no, no, no.

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We don't need that anymore.

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In fact, we can just subvert this whole apparatus by opting out into Bitcoin, taking whatever productive capacity we bring to society and putting it into this money that you can't fuck with and can't be co-opted by the state and used to nefarious means.

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The analogy is like back in World War II or I think it was pre-World War II, it's like you had to do war bonds to go fund it.

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So like if the people were psyoped into funding the war, then they were psyoped into funding the war and that's fine. But if they weren't, you couldn't just print money ad nauseum. And then the guys that can get over the hurdle of one understanding Bitcoin, because it's not everybody's going to get it. But then two coming to grips that like all the, all the forever wars that we fought in, like Afghanistan and Iraq and Syria and all this shit that we ended up doing was all blood money.

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like just absolutely and that's like a hard cognitive dissonance to like deal with and you

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see i mean one of the the facts uh you know veteran suicide it's like 22 a day or whatever

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it's like the average number or something like that that's because guys they get out they don't

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know how to identify as anything they don't know what they're supposed to be doing with their lives

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and then potentially especially the forever war veterans um they get out and they realize that

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like they did a lot of horrible shit and they don't know how to cope with that and there's no

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way for them to like channel this piss and vigor inside of them for a better cause i mean it's not

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everybody right but like you see the demographic of veterans in the united states that are rough

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family lives multiple divorces like i know unfortunately i know way too many dudes that i

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served with that were on like second or third marriages by the time they retired um and it's

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because the military would just chew you up and spit you out you have this like adamant loyalty

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to your brothers in arms right which is is good like you want that in a military unit

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but it comes at a cost and that cost doesn't need to be paid necessarily.

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And we can still accomplish the same goals of like protecting people.

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And what I,

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my personal like philosophy is like,

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okay,

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well I'm going to take this and bring it local.

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Like the local community,

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the local Bitcoin media.

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If I started it like three years ago,

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it's got a consistent group of dudes.

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And now I'm just going to be like the local Bitcoiner and I will be public.

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You know,

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I'll wear this hat out and about like some people want to,

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you know,

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worry about Opsack and everything.

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And it's a legitimate threat,

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but small businesses in the area,

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my kids soccer teams I volunteered at high schools all these different things There other ways of like plugging community and then like you just drop bitcoin casually you don press it and it like they know you the bitcoin guy so like when i show up to like a small business

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meetup like oh hey gary it's like blah blah like sometimes they're like hey it's doing doing pretty

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well and you get sometimes texts from people like hey man uh that bitcoin thing i bought a little

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bit and so thank you very much um but i'm just waiting for them all to catch on and i think

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veterans specifically because they're so good at like the organization and and the execution and

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being like, it's almost like an unassailable position being a veteran in the U.S.

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Like not a lot of people want to go hard against veterans, right?

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Like the general population has this positive perspective of veterans.

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And I think that's for good reason, because like you said earlier, we all signed up for

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a, to, to defend our country, right?

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To, to do, to be in service of our fellow man.

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You know, some people join because they have no other choice.

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Like they're going to go to jail or they got finances or whatever, but like a lot of people,

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it's a voluntary force.

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So they're signed up to like do good.

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That's why you see a lot of people get out and like go into like local politics or like go in and continue to serve their community in whatever capacity they can.

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And I think that Bitcoin veterans, one of the biggest things we do is like do that at the local level, which we're doing that, right?

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Like it's not just me.

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It's not just like the core cadre members.

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It's like we've got people down in Florida, all across the United States that are like plugged into the local meetup and doing the thing.

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but can you talk a little bit about like some of the because in addition to kind of like the

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hyper local stuff you guys also have done some uh very much i mean uh not in your your your uh

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your actual you know individual hometown but like in uh disaster relief situations like i think can

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you talk about that a little bit because for folks that don't know i think that was just like that

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was incredible to watch that happen as the government was like just kind of fumble fucking

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around just not doing anything like yeah which was maddening so we had several guys within bitcoin

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veterans some of the core countries so shane hazel if you're familiar with him um and then

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another guy goes by operation libertas um the guy that wrote writes our daily intelligence bulletin

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so there's like a daily intel bulletin that the bitcoin veterans put out um he was there and we

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had just a number of other people's hunter was this guy hunter was there but they showed up to

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respond to the disaster within days i think um and the crazy thing is so operational libertas i

348
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ended up he was like hey i got this meshtastic thing and at the nashville conference i like

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brought a bunch of the nodes and was like shilling it we did like ham radio stuff and he's like hey

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man i want like 60 of those just for like my local community um you know he's he's plugged in he

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understands like the advantageous like position you have when you have like off-grid comms um so

352
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We happen to have 60 of these mesh-tastic radios.

353
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And so as he's in East Tennessee, so as he's responding to this, they're like, oh.

354
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We should say what this is also.

355
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What's that?

356
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What the actual disaster was.

357
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Oh, I'm sorry.

358
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Yeah.

359
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Western North Carolina.

360
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Yeah.

361
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Hurricane Helene.

362
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It's been over a year at this point.

363
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But several of the guys went in there in their own trucks, loaded up as many fuel cans, generators, blankets, all kinds of stuff, and just went down to figure out how they could plug in.

364
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What we ended up doing was linking up with this other group called Christian Rangers, which is run by some former soft guys.

365
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And they were doing a similar thing.

366
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So we ended up just kind of plugging in and like augmenting their force.

367
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But what they were doing is they were going up and down the mountains through the hollers of Western North Carolina to find people to like check in on people.

368
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And the crazy thing is like they weren't the only group.

369
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So we plugged into just one group in one area.

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and when you look at the guys that were doing this they were trained by the u.s government to

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go do this kind of shit overseas right like you go to an austere location and work with minimal

372
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resources to accomplish a task it just so happens this task was like providing aid and support to

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the local populace of western north carolina so we're handing out like mesh tassik radios and

374
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then we had a mesh tassik radio on a national guard helicopter because we got up to the national

375
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guard like hey you know i'm you know so and so and i used to serve like well let me show you this

376
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thing can you throw this on your bird and so the national guard helicopter had a mesh tassik on it

377
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so as it's flying over anybody down on the holler could ping off of it and then it would broadcast

378
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out to the rest of the network and so people were able to actually have communications before the

379
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cell phone network and they didn't need like ham radio or anything like that um and it was i mean

380
00:26:32,832 --> 00:26:38,492
it was critical i i don't know of like a definitive thing but i'm fairly certain like that saved lives

381
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in that area because people were able to like get the word out um but it wasn't just that it was

382
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you know other veterans other just like good old boys from the holler were like paving like

383
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clearing roads and taking atvs to go and basically developing a physical network of people right where

384
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it's like hey i'm gonna go over here and check in with these guys and then come back and report back

385
00:26:58,272 --> 00:27:03,312
that's like a very very military thing right it's if you don't have any communications you just send

386
00:27:03,312 --> 00:27:07,332
a runner just literally used to be just like a guy that would just run right that's like the whole

387
00:27:07,332 --> 00:27:11,752
like marathon thing came from like the guy that ran the marathon to like alert about some army

388
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But it's a very well-defined thing.

389
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So when you have veterans running this sort of operation on home turf, that's the other thing.

390
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Nobody ideally is going to be shooting at any of veterans.

391
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It would be a bad idea anyway because we're all armed and proficient.

392
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But they're there and people want you there, which was very, very different than Afghanistan and Iraq.

393
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Not everybody wanted us there.

394
00:27:33,692 --> 00:27:36,192
So putting the use of skills was super cool.

395
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And I didn't personally go down myself.

396
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I was definitely on some back-end chats coordinating with everybody.

397
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But incredible. I mean, I got the photo updates and stuff. And like the other kind of contrast to like government support is like you had FEMA workers taking up hotels. It's like our dudes were sleeping in the back of their truck or sleeping in like a half built condo that some guy owned that he was like, yeah, just like go crash in here.

398
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So in sleeping bags, sleeping on the floor, and then making these runs, like relaying messages back like, hey, they need wheat or hay for like the animals, they need fuel, and just gathering intel, right, which is what we're trained to do, and making that intel useful, making that intel like actionable.

399
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So it was incredible.

400
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I mean, we didn't have a lot of people.

401
00:28:21,632 --> 00:28:24,212
It was really the people of the area that helped themselves a lot.

402
00:28:24,212 --> 00:28:30,892
but there's one guy that we linked up who was like a former ranger and he ended up running this 50,000

403
00:28:30,892 --> 00:28:36,652
square foot warehouse um and we ended up funding him through bitcoin right so we we raised over a

404
00:28:36,652 --> 00:28:43,032
bitcoin um fundraising for the relief efforts and we probably spent spent a fraction of it maybe like

405
00:28:43,032 --> 00:28:48,212
30k worth right because we had to do it all dollar denominated but um and then when the price bump is

406
00:28:48,212 --> 00:28:53,332
like hey we still had resources left over to continue this bitcoin veterans thing um so that

407
00:28:53,332 --> 00:28:56,692
That was humbling to be part of and just incredible to watch.

408
00:28:58,132 --> 00:29:07,772
Because you run exercises stateside when you're in, where you're going to cities or remote training centers and running these exercises.

409
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But this was like a no-shit real-world operation where we could put all these skills we had developed to use for the betterment of a community, for the betterment of this Western North Carolina.

410
00:29:18,172 --> 00:29:23,372
it and then specifically bitcoin was able to like supercharge this by by funding the resources like

411
00:29:23,372 --> 00:29:27,772
all these generators and clothes and blankets and everything that we bought um was all enabled

412
00:29:27,772 --> 00:29:31,612
because we had bitcoin and then we got the guy set up with like a hardware wallet he's running

413
00:29:31,612 --> 00:29:37,212
like a 50 000 square foot logistics hub out of this disaster zone um and he just kind of took

414
00:29:37,212 --> 00:29:42,012
it and run it was kind of like we went in set them up taught them about how to like operate without

415
00:29:42,012 --> 00:29:46,172
the assistance from the government because there was none and then you know you kind of pull back

416
00:29:46,172 --> 00:29:47,712
and then check in every once in a while.

417
00:29:48,012 --> 00:29:49,812
And there's more to come on that.

418
00:29:49,952 --> 00:29:52,172
We actually made contact with a reporter down there

419
00:29:52,172 --> 00:29:53,792
that we've been in touch with.

420
00:29:54,032 --> 00:29:55,332
So stay tuned to Bitcoin Veterans.

421
00:29:55,572 --> 00:29:57,852
We have more to come from that story

422
00:29:57,852 --> 00:29:59,152
because it's not done, right?

423
00:29:59,212 --> 00:29:59,752
Like it doesn't,

424
00:30:00,132 --> 00:30:01,792
you don't just like show up for a couple of weeks

425
00:30:01,792 --> 00:30:03,852
and like, hey, we're helping.

426
00:30:03,952 --> 00:30:04,852
And then like leave.

427
00:30:05,112 --> 00:30:08,032
You have to check back in.

428
00:30:08,032 --> 00:30:09,372
You have to like make sure

429
00:30:09,372 --> 00:30:12,472
that the self-sustainment is established.

430
00:30:12,692 --> 00:30:13,752
And I think they're at that point,

431
00:30:13,752 --> 00:30:18,332
But there's like way more to that story to be told aside from just like the small Bitcoin veterans part.

432
00:30:18,712 --> 00:30:19,152
Yeah.

433
00:30:19,192 --> 00:30:23,652
I mean, if you guys just like showed up for a little while and then like made yourselves known and then left, you'd just be the government.

434
00:30:23,792 --> 00:30:23,972
Right.

435
00:30:24,372 --> 00:30:24,732
Exactly.

436
00:30:25,012 --> 00:30:25,412
Yeah.

437
00:30:25,552 --> 00:30:34,772
But you'd have to show up really late as well and overspend on it an ungodly amount and then funnel a good portion of that spending into, you know, NGOs.

438
00:30:35,352 --> 00:30:35,672
Right.

439
00:30:35,732 --> 00:30:38,732
You know, and various, various nonprofit organizations that are.

440
00:30:38,732 --> 00:30:39,852
There's some of those that showed up.

441
00:30:40,412 --> 00:30:41,232
Administrative support.

442
00:30:41,232 --> 00:30:43,112
And it's like, that's the crazy thing.

443
00:30:43,112 --> 00:30:56,912
It's like, I feel like anytime something like this happens, it's like, you see, you see that the average person or the above average person or the average Gary, uh, like people step up and help their fellow man.

444
00:30:57,012 --> 00:30:58,052
They help their fellow citizen.

445
00:30:58,792 --> 00:31:06,412
And the government's like, is always too slow to respond, always provides ineffective and inefficient support.

446
00:31:06,672 --> 00:31:10,112
And then really doesn't actually do anything on a lasting level.

447
00:31:10,112 --> 00:31:14,752
level like there isn't you know it's it's like well we we did we did our job and we filed our

448
00:31:14,752 --> 00:31:20,032
report and now uh now that's all done and it's like because there's ultimately like no like

449
00:31:20,032 --> 00:31:23,212
there's no accountability yeah no real accountability

450
00:31:23,212 --> 00:31:29,232
which is just like insane because they're actually the ones that should be accountable

451
00:31:29,232 --> 00:31:35,192
like the the average citizen or the you know the the veteran isn't actually accountable to anyone

452
00:31:35,192 --> 00:31:39,432
there's there's no one forcing you to do that there you're just doing it because you want to do it

453
00:31:39,432 --> 00:31:43,332
the government is accountable to actually all of its citizens and like,

454
00:31:43,332 --> 00:31:46,532
because it's our taxpayer dollars and the money printed out of thin air that

455
00:31:46,532 --> 00:31:48,272
funds all of that. And it's just like,

456
00:31:48,332 --> 00:31:51,072
it just blows your mind that it makes you realize, you know, for the people,

457
00:31:51,152 --> 00:31:53,012
it's like, Oh, you know, well, who's going to, you know,

458
00:31:53,012 --> 00:31:55,752
who's going to build the roads without the government? It's like, well,

459
00:31:56,032 --> 00:31:58,592
the government's not building like the roads, you know,

460
00:31:58,712 --> 00:31:59,852
and other people built the roads,

461
00:31:59,852 --> 00:32:02,792
like they took their own equipment and went and leveled where there used to be

462
00:32:02,792 --> 00:32:05,812
a road, leveled it out. So that way, even a Tesla could just drive through it.

463
00:32:05,832 --> 00:32:09,152
You don't need a four by four. Um, it was pretty crazy. I mean,

464
00:32:09,152 --> 00:32:15,152
And on the Bitcoin Veterans thing, another thing I'll say is in November, we're running a Bitcoin Veterans Summit at the park in Nashville.

465
00:32:15,732 --> 00:32:19,632
So Bitcoin Park in Nashville, November 10th and 11th, we're going to do a two-day event.

466
00:32:20,072 --> 00:32:25,432
The first day is going to be like speakers and panels, your standard small-scale sort of like conference sort of thing.

467
00:32:25,732 --> 00:32:28,512
But the cool thing is if you've never been to the park, there's two buildings.

468
00:32:28,512 --> 00:32:30,952
So we'll have the speakers and the panels and stuff in one building.

469
00:32:31,252 --> 00:32:33,872
And then the other building is going to be solely dedicated to just hands-on workshops.

470
00:32:34,372 --> 00:32:38,832
So like if you've never handled a gun before, you can come to the conference and like we'll have one for you.

471
00:32:39,152 --> 00:32:41,352
And in fact, it's useful because day two is a range day.

472
00:32:41,512 --> 00:32:42,772
It's a range day and other stuff.

473
00:32:43,232 --> 00:32:44,992
It's immediately prior to Nostraville.

474
00:32:45,952 --> 00:32:47,332
But yeah, we're going to do another range day.

475
00:32:47,332 --> 00:32:50,472
We did a range day back in Nashville last year for the conference.

476
00:32:50,852 --> 00:32:51,552
Huge success.

477
00:32:52,012 --> 00:32:54,832
And so come learn, like shoot guns, come discuss,

478
00:32:55,032 --> 00:32:58,112
hear more about Bitcoin Veterans in this like two-day thing at Bitcoin Park.

479
00:32:59,032 --> 00:33:03,292
I think it's bitcoinveterans.org slash summit 2025 is like the website.

480
00:33:03,492 --> 00:33:05,192
And we're actually looking for speakers.

481
00:33:05,332 --> 00:33:06,872
So if you're like a veteran listening to this,

482
00:33:06,912 --> 00:33:08,012
and you're like, oh, that sounds super cool.

483
00:33:08,012 --> 00:33:12,352
if you have something to showcase that's related somehow to bitcoin or any of the topics that

484
00:33:12,352 --> 00:33:16,832
veterans cover which is like basically everything like we have like a tesla owners veterans chat

485
00:33:16,832 --> 00:33:22,212
or like a pilot's chat right and you don't have to be a bitcoin veteran to be in these chats

486
00:33:22,212 --> 00:33:26,152
we won't put you in like the regional chats those are veterans only but if you want to learn about

487
00:33:26,152 --> 00:33:30,852
like mining if you want to learn about privacy or self-custody if you want to learn about business

488
00:33:30,852 --> 00:33:35,572
and entrepreneurship or just like discuss these topics and you're a bitcoiner it'll be led and

489
00:33:35,572 --> 00:33:41,212
moderated by Bitcoin veterans, but it's not exclusive to us. So it's just wild to see.

490
00:33:41,472 --> 00:33:46,492
My phone is constantly, I have to constantly just read all messages in some of these chats,

491
00:33:46,552 --> 00:33:50,712
because if you ignore it for too long, it just builds up. Half the guys can't keep up with half

492
00:33:50,712 --> 00:33:55,992
the chats. But if there's a topic that you're into, the mining chat is very, very active.

493
00:33:56,652 --> 00:34:00,192
And I think that parallels very well with, again, the veteran skill set of beans,

494
00:34:00,332 --> 00:34:04,172
bullets, and Band-Aids is kind of like what you learn. That's the same thing that goes into mining

495
00:34:04,172 --> 00:34:09,132
operations right you got like machines electrical equipment there's a lot of like blue collar skills

496
00:34:09,132 --> 00:34:14,072
that veterans have that makes it very directly applicable to the mining industry which is

497
00:34:14,072 --> 00:34:19,192
fantastic you want to talk about mining a little bit maybe because one of the one of the things we

498
00:34:19,192 --> 00:34:24,072
did have on our on our docket was uh was was getting to that a little bit um you want yeah

499
00:34:24,072 --> 00:34:28,772
where's a good place to start with that uh you let's we can say like i work on mining full-time

500
00:34:28,772 --> 00:34:29,752
Yeah. Go ahead.

501
00:34:29,992 --> 00:34:35,552
I'm a software engineer and I work on a big mining operation, we'll say.

502
00:34:36,052 --> 00:34:38,192
And I specifically work on the pool side of things.

503
00:34:38,592 --> 00:34:43,292
So I've been pretty involved, not pretty involved, lightly involved with Stratum B2 project.

504
00:34:43,652 --> 00:34:47,592
But I am actively building a Stratum B2 pool right now.

505
00:34:48,052 --> 00:34:50,112
And that has been awesome.

506
00:34:50,792 --> 00:34:52,772
But just the mining itself, you don't realize...

507
00:34:53,332 --> 00:34:56,532
I started just over a year ago and I had no idea what I was getting into

508
00:34:56,532 --> 00:34:58,972
because it's a whole nother rabbit hole of Bitcoin.

509
00:34:59,572 --> 00:35:00,952
Like there's all these rabbit holes in Bitcoin.

510
00:35:01,072 --> 00:35:02,092
And I was like, oh, I went down all,

511
00:35:02,252 --> 00:35:04,512
I got sick of the macro stuff and everything like that.

512
00:35:04,532 --> 00:35:05,132
I'm like, okay, cool.

513
00:35:05,152 --> 00:35:05,492
I got it.

514
00:35:05,512 --> 00:35:06,952
It's going up forever, Laura, check.

515
00:35:07,572 --> 00:35:10,532
But once I was, I got this opportunity to go work in mining,

516
00:35:10,812 --> 00:35:12,112
doing software engineering.

517
00:35:12,112 --> 00:35:13,552
I was like, oh, okay, yeah, sure.

518
00:35:13,892 --> 00:35:16,412
And now I'm like in talks about like power generation

519
00:35:16,412 --> 00:35:20,472
and like load balancing and like trying to learn

520
00:35:20,472 --> 00:35:22,952
the nitty gritty of like, what are these data pieces that,

521
00:35:23,092 --> 00:35:24,132
like what is the pool doing?

522
00:35:24,232 --> 00:35:25,312
What does a mining pool do?

523
00:35:26,532 --> 00:35:53,932
And that was all something that I had no idea. And when you look at the size and the scale of it, there was some statistic, like Tyler Stevens, who's a guy that does mining heat reuse, he wrote a whole book on it. And he made the assertion there, like, if you took all the energy that goes into comfort heating, right, so like heating for homes or water or whatever, like comfort heating, if you took, I think it was like 1% of that, and converted that energy to Bitcoin mining, we would bet three zeta hash.

524
00:35:53,932 --> 00:35:57,452
That is like three times the current network hash rate.

525
00:35:58,312 --> 00:36:03,952
And so when you kind of couple that with this idea that you can heat your house with a Bitcoin miner, you can heat water.

526
00:36:04,472 --> 00:36:07,012
If you've never checked it out, there's this guy called, he goes by Schnitzel.

527
00:36:07,532 --> 00:36:09,792
He has like a hot tub that he heats.

528
00:36:10,092 --> 00:36:10,872
And it's a hot tub.

529
00:36:11,032 --> 00:36:12,952
Like it's legitimately the temperature a hot tub should be.

530
00:36:13,152 --> 00:36:14,852
But it's like two S19s heating the thing.

531
00:36:15,452 --> 00:36:18,492
And so that sort of stuff was just mind blowing.

532
00:36:18,612 --> 00:36:23,632
Like it was, you kind of know about this mining stuff, but you never really know the full depth of it.

533
00:36:23,632 --> 00:36:25,512
But there's all like, you have to work.

534
00:36:25,592 --> 00:36:30,032
The easiest thing most people Bitcoiners understand, I think, is like the 51% attack, right?

535
00:36:30,072 --> 00:36:31,492
So it's like 51% of the hash rate.

536
00:36:31,572 --> 00:36:34,132
If it's malicious, they can kind of like have an opportunity to reorg the block.

537
00:36:34,652 --> 00:36:36,612
But there's like block withholding attacks.

538
00:36:36,792 --> 00:36:38,872
And there's like hash rate hijacking.

539
00:36:39,632 --> 00:36:42,872
There's all these different aspects on the technical side of Bitcoin, where if you're

540
00:36:42,872 --> 00:36:47,612
sending your hash rate, like clear text over the internet, somebody can just intercept that

541
00:36:47,612 --> 00:36:51,232
and redirect it or like inject themselves into the middle of that, right?

542
00:36:51,232 --> 00:36:55,652
so there's a whole bunch of like considerations uh and that's one of the reasons why i started

543
00:36:55,652 --> 00:37:00,752
digging into the research on like strategy b2 is because it's a net better protocol there's

544
00:37:00,752 --> 00:37:06,072
just saying strategy b1 it doesn't even have like a specification at all um but strategy b2 defines

545
00:37:06,072 --> 00:37:11,872
a very well specced out protocol for like how you do this mining thing but then it brings like a

546
00:37:11,872 --> 00:37:15,632
bunch of other things like end-to-end encryption right so you no no longer have like this snooping

547
00:37:15,632 --> 00:37:21,112
person that can steal your hash rate um it has like authentication right so you give it the

548
00:37:21,112 --> 00:37:26,152
server's pub key and that way your devices if it's not the same pub key it knows it's not talking to

549
00:37:26,152 --> 00:37:31,952
the right server right so even those two things alone with strategy b2 is objectively a better

550
00:37:31,952 --> 00:37:36,432
protocol than anything else you're going to do with strategy one um and then you get into the

551
00:37:36,432 --> 00:37:40,892
whole like block template creation if you haven't been following like the whole ocean thing so they

552
00:37:40,892 --> 00:37:45,792
created this thing called datum um super smart guy jason hughes wrote the whole thing in like c

553
00:37:45,792 --> 00:37:50,372
programming language and it's like super hyper-oppermise and like can run off of one bar of

554
00:37:50,372 --> 00:37:57,772
cellular 2g internet um and it was solving a lot of the same problems that shred and b2 addresses

555
00:37:57,772 --> 00:38:03,592
but it was like he just did it in like six months because he had no it's still shred and b1 and he

556
00:38:03,592 --> 00:38:08,732
had like no like barriers where shred and b2 it's actually three protocols so there's like the

557
00:38:08,732 --> 00:38:12,872
protocol itself and then you have the mining protocol which is like the machines to the pool

558
00:38:12,872 --> 00:38:16,612
and then you have something called the the template distribution protocol which is like

559
00:38:16,612 --> 00:38:20,792
how to talk to the node. And those are pretty well defined. But then the thing they've added on is

560
00:38:20,792 --> 00:38:25,252
this thing called job declaration, which is like, if I want to create my own template to mine on,

561
00:38:25,472 --> 00:38:29,392
I need to negotiate with the pool. So that way payouts are correct. And like, there's like a

562
00:38:29,392 --> 00:38:33,412
negotiation that happens. So it's actually these three different protocols that are all crammed

563
00:38:33,412 --> 00:38:39,212
into one, which is like this huge space of understanding and engineering that you kind

564
00:38:39,212 --> 00:38:44,552
of have like wrap your head around. And then, you know, there's mining all the, the fact that

565
00:38:44,552 --> 00:38:49,712
mining pursues the cheapest energy available pushes it to the edges and then it also pushes

566
00:38:49,712 --> 00:38:56,352
it to very like energy dense locations so nuclear right or nuclear whatever however you want to

567
00:38:56,352 --> 00:39:03,172
pronounce that um that that's big in mining right coupling it with ai you have this spiky ai load

568
00:39:03,172 --> 00:39:07,272
or you need like massive amount of energy for like training a new model what do you do with that

569
00:39:07,272 --> 00:39:11,212
energy when you're not training the next newest model well you could be buying mining bitcoin

570
00:39:11,212 --> 00:39:16,432
with it or just in general data centers with like spiky load right there's a a balance to the grid

571
00:39:16,432 --> 00:39:20,952
where you have to like keep it at this like exact frequency otherwise things blow up and people

572
00:39:20,952 --> 00:39:26,952
potentially die and so the engineering that goes into these like critical electrical systems

573
00:39:26,952 --> 00:39:31,792
and the coupling that with bitcoin mining has been fascinating to say at least because

574
00:39:31,792 --> 00:39:37,652
it's like this battery that just prints money for you it's somewhere you can send the energy

575
00:39:37,652 --> 00:39:39,312
and use it for a different purpose

576
00:39:39,312 --> 00:39:40,832
and then just like scale it down

577
00:39:40,832 --> 00:39:41,892
when you need the energy back.

578
00:39:42,592 --> 00:39:43,652
I feel like people,

579
00:39:44,132 --> 00:39:45,512
just like the average person,

580
00:39:45,552 --> 00:39:46,312
like the average person,

581
00:39:46,552 --> 00:39:49,052
one, doesn't understand Bitcoin, right?

582
00:39:49,552 --> 00:39:51,172
The average person also like

583
00:39:51,172 --> 00:39:54,512
really doesn't understand energy

584
00:39:54,512 --> 00:39:55,992
and like how, like, you know,

585
00:39:56,012 --> 00:39:57,692
and they think, well, if I, you know,

586
00:39:57,712 --> 00:40:00,032
if I plug something into the wall,

587
00:40:00,312 --> 00:40:01,412
well, that's just electricity,

588
00:40:01,512 --> 00:40:02,532
nice clean electricity.

589
00:40:02,712 --> 00:40:03,592
Like they don't even know like where,

590
00:40:03,592 --> 00:40:06,432
like they haven't even thought about it further

591
00:40:06,432 --> 00:40:11,992
than like at the wall where i plug stuff in or you know like people plug like well i'm i'm you

592
00:40:11,992 --> 00:40:16,832
know i'm charging my my tesla so i'm you know i'm i'm saving the planet here and it's like where

593
00:40:16,832 --> 00:40:21,432
is the energy coming from where where is it coming you think it just appears there and then like the

594
00:40:21,432 --> 00:40:25,752
load balancing side that was something i actually like did not understand until bitcoin and started

595
00:40:25,752 --> 00:40:29,732
going down that and that's just like fascinating because it's like look it's it's not just like

596
00:40:29,732 --> 00:40:34,372
uh you can't just either have a have a like if you have a ton of energy like that's great you've

597
00:40:34,372 --> 00:40:39,092
got all this excess like solar and wind you know at certain times of the day because it's intermittent

598
00:40:39,092 --> 00:40:44,672
but then like what do you do with that if you don't use like you have to use it or you have to

599
00:40:44,672 --> 00:40:49,292
just run it into the ground and waste it which is like what like you're like i mean famously like

600
00:40:49,292 --> 00:40:54,072
the uk is spending something like over a billion dollars a year on curtailment right now because

601
00:40:54,072 --> 00:40:59,132
they overproduce at certain times and it's just insane and people just don't get and then you have

602
00:40:59,132 --> 00:41:03,472
this like this solution that's sitting right there that's like well you should just like print

603
00:41:03,472 --> 00:41:08,652
bitcoin with it like not out of thin air like out of energy and we're still like that we're just

604
00:41:08,652 --> 00:41:12,952
we're so very early on so many parts of this because people haven't even begun to realize

605
00:41:12,952 --> 00:41:19,192
there is this like solution that fixes so many of these problems and it happens to also like it's

606
00:41:19,192 --> 00:41:23,392
also the hardest money that's ever been discovered like it's just like one one two punch like it's

607
00:41:23,392 --> 00:41:29,552
perfect the uh the cool so if you're not familiar with sort of like energy infrastructure stuff

608
00:41:29,552 --> 00:41:35,192
there's a book called one second after highly recommend it it basically sets a premise like

609
00:41:35,192 --> 00:41:38,412
you find out eventually it's been out for a while so there's no spoiler alerts but

610
00:41:38,412 --> 00:41:42,572
emp detonates in the atmosphere above the eastern seaboard and wipes out all modern electronics

611
00:41:42,572 --> 00:41:47,372
and then it's a fictional story set in the in the foothills of ashville north carolina

612
00:41:47,372 --> 00:41:53,972
where there's no electricity right all modern cars are gone all like modern everything so like the

613
00:41:53,972 --> 00:41:57,932
dude the main character like there's some like old carbureted chevy that they have so like they

614
00:41:57,932 --> 00:42:02,592
happened to have a car but you know uh his daughter's like type one diabetic well they can't

615
00:42:02,592 --> 00:42:08,272
keep insulin cold right so like the medication runs out within a couple weeks logistics hub run

616
00:42:08,272 --> 00:42:12,352
out within a couple days like grocery stores don't have more than like a few days worth of food at a

617
00:42:12,352 --> 00:42:17,392
time and if trucks are not bringing your food to you then you have nothing unless you're growing it

618
00:42:17,392 --> 00:42:22,872
yourself so it's a really good fictional story it's written back in 2001 i think like the guy

619
00:42:22,872 --> 00:42:27,752
wrote it to try to highlight the fragility of our electrical infrastructure and infrastructure

620
00:42:27,752 --> 00:42:29,032
in general in the United States.

621
00:42:29,312 --> 00:42:30,692
Well, then 9-11 happened, right?

622
00:42:30,772 --> 00:42:33,112
And everybody was like, oh, terrorism, right?

623
00:42:33,152 --> 00:42:35,272
So it didn't gain the traction that he wanted

624
00:42:35,272 --> 00:42:37,972
because there was this other new shiny thing

625
00:42:37,972 --> 00:42:39,072
to go print money and do.

626
00:42:39,832 --> 00:42:43,172
And now I think it's not surprising to anybody

627
00:42:43,172 --> 00:42:44,632
that the infrastructure in the United States

628
00:42:44,632 --> 00:42:46,092
is really old and decrepit.

629
00:42:46,592 --> 00:42:50,392
But ideally, Bitcoin mining helps kind of revitalize that

630
00:42:50,392 --> 00:42:53,612
and pay for the rebuilding of the infrastructure.

631
00:42:55,332 --> 00:42:57,372
I think that's one of the most promising things

632
00:42:57,372 --> 00:43:00,132
when you look at like what Bitcoin mining enables.

633
00:43:00,372 --> 00:43:03,352
And it's, you know, not just the like rebuilding

634
00:43:03,352 --> 00:43:05,192
of existing infrastructure to modernize it

635
00:43:05,192 --> 00:43:07,892
or to build out the grid in more remote areas,

636
00:43:08,332 --> 00:43:11,092
but it's also like in areas like not just in the US,

637
00:43:11,172 --> 00:43:12,392
but around the world where it's like,

638
00:43:12,392 --> 00:43:15,792
they don't like, there is no infrastructure to rebuild

639
00:43:15,792 --> 00:43:17,112
because they've never had it.

640
00:43:17,852 --> 00:43:20,412
It's actually something where you can now

641
00:43:20,412 --> 00:43:23,712
make that economical to do instead of relying on,

642
00:43:23,712 --> 00:43:26,932
you know, various NGOs again and different grants

643
00:43:26,932 --> 00:43:29,952
and things like that that are, you know, you're dependent on somebody else and there's a lot of

644
00:43:29,952 --> 00:43:35,012
money being, you know, slipped into people's pockets behind the scenes. It's like you can,

645
00:43:35,132 --> 00:43:39,152
you can just mine Bitcoin and actually fund the build out of that infrastructure in a really

646
00:43:39,152 --> 00:43:44,012
sustainable way. And I think that that's just super powerful. One of the things that I'd like

647
00:43:44,012 --> 00:43:49,332
to kind of circle back on a little bit with the stratum V2, as it relates to kind of relates to

648
00:43:49,332 --> 00:43:53,812
the template creation and whatnot is just your thoughts on kind of mining pool centralization

649
00:43:53,812 --> 00:43:59,992
broadly, like how you view this. This is obviously the miners that I talked to. And from what I've

650
00:43:59,992 --> 00:44:04,432
looked at, it's like, it's kind of like, should be a top concern for folks.

651
00:44:05,072 --> 00:44:08,792
Yeah. So it's interesting enough, like Stratton B2 has nothing to do with mining

652
00:44:08,792 --> 00:44:14,292
decentralization, datum as well, right? Like the block template creation is not really

653
00:44:14,292 --> 00:44:19,012
where you're going to get the centralization, like stick it, stake into the heart of it.

654
00:44:19,012 --> 00:44:20,852
it's the accounting, right?

655
00:44:20,932 --> 00:44:24,632
So you have the various different payout mechanisms

656
00:44:24,632 --> 00:44:28,292
for basically the pool will price your hash rate

657
00:44:28,292 --> 00:44:31,412
based on whatever accounting mechanism they want, right?

658
00:44:31,432 --> 00:44:32,652
And it's all in the terms of services

659
00:44:32,652 --> 00:44:35,092
if you're mining to like one of these big publicly traded pools

660
00:44:35,092 --> 00:44:35,912
and stuff like that.

661
00:44:36,592 --> 00:44:37,552
Even Ocean, right?

662
00:44:37,552 --> 00:44:39,632
You can go read their Tides documentation

663
00:44:39,632 --> 00:44:41,772
and understand exactly how they're going to pay you out.

664
00:44:42,352 --> 00:44:45,512
But my assertion, my belief is it's not really that.

665
00:44:45,512 --> 00:45:00,484
It is this thing called FPPS which is full pay per share meaning we gonna give you a set amount for every mining share you submit to me And if you not familiar with what mining share is it like your ASIC your mining device found an almost block

666
00:45:00,704 --> 00:45:04,704
Like it's a block that is good enough, but it's not good enough for the Bitcoin network.

667
00:45:04,863 --> 00:45:09,624
But it's enough to demonstrate to me as a mining pool that you are doing this work, right?

668
00:45:09,644 --> 00:45:11,804
You're doing all these hashes constantly over and over.

669
00:45:12,624 --> 00:45:16,544
And so it gets into this thing called a poison distribution and this like statistical thing

670
00:45:16,544 --> 00:45:21,244
where it's like, if you can provide me X number of shares within a given window of time, I

671
00:45:21,244 --> 00:45:23,764
know that you have Y amount of hash rate.

672
00:45:24,044 --> 00:45:27,544
And so I can kind of pay you out for that as long as you're mining to my pool.

673
00:45:28,284 --> 00:45:32,444
So what you see is like these big mining operations, they have month to month electricity costs,

674
00:45:32,644 --> 00:45:32,784
right?

675
00:45:32,784 --> 00:45:34,104
They have to pay bills every month.

676
00:45:34,104 --> 00:45:39,164
And so if your operation is not big enough to win a block, then you're not going to get

677
00:45:39,164 --> 00:45:41,144
paid and you go bankrupt, right?

678
00:45:41,144 --> 00:46:02,383
And so this FPPS thing where it's like, hey, we're going to pay you no matter what, just send us your hash rate. What it means is, one, you're not pricing your hash rate. The pool is pricing your hash rate for you. And then two, they're kind of like subsidizing you, right? They're saying, hey, we're going to pay you no matter what. And then there's definitely margins factored in there because the pool wants to make money. So we'll put some margin in there and take a cut off the top.

679
00:46:03,044 --> 00:46:08,804
And what that's led to is like this giant centralization because you need massive bags of Bitcoin to kind of float the luck variance.

680
00:46:09,304 --> 00:46:12,184
And the luck variance is, hey, I have X amount of hash rate.

681
00:46:12,343 --> 00:46:15,324
I'm expected to win Y amount of blocks per day.

682
00:46:15,984 --> 00:46:19,843
And it's either going to be like reality is it's going to be either less or more of that.

683
00:46:19,883 --> 00:46:26,824
And so if it's less of that and you're just getting explicitly paid out in those blocks and you don't have enough hash rate to win a lot of blocks, you go bankrupt.

684
00:46:27,363 --> 00:46:29,044
If it's more than that, like that's great.

685
00:46:29,104 --> 00:46:29,444
You win.

686
00:46:29,444 --> 00:46:56,204
But what these FVPS schemas do is they pay consistently to the miners. So the mining operations love it because they know exactly how much hash rate they can give and exactly how much hash rate, you know, how much, how many Bitcoin they're going to get back out of that hash rate or dollars really, right? Because a lot of the mining operations might not necessarily be Bitcoiners per se. They're just like, hey, I've got cheap energy. I'm just going to plug in a bunch of ASICs. And so they're just mining and they don't care about like the centralization factors.

687
00:46:57,004 --> 00:47:02,244
This actually leads into another topic I wanted to discuss, which is this thing called eHash, which sounds a lot.

688
00:47:02,304 --> 00:47:03,644
You asked me earlier, like, are you sure?

689
00:47:03,764 --> 00:47:04,704
Did you mean eCash?

690
00:47:04,764 --> 00:47:06,524
And I was like, yes, but no.

691
00:47:06,944 --> 00:47:07,843
Yeah, so what is this?

692
00:47:08,304 --> 00:47:11,343
Yeah, so eHash is something I've been working on with this guy.

693
00:47:11,704 --> 00:47:13,924
He goes by VNPRC on Noster.

694
00:47:15,304 --> 00:47:17,484
And he's done a lot of the heavy dev work on it.

695
00:47:17,484 --> 00:47:25,724
But the concept is these shares that you're mining up to the pool, you issue a cash you token or eCash token for each one of those shares.

696
00:47:26,204 --> 00:47:32,664
And so what that means is as you're mining to me as like the hash pool, I'm issuing you blinded tokens, right?

697
00:47:32,904 --> 00:47:35,724
I'm issuing these eCash pieces and you're accumulating those.

698
00:47:35,724 --> 00:47:37,664
They have no value, right?

699
00:47:37,764 --> 00:47:39,684
They're speculative in nature at this point.

700
00:47:40,324 --> 00:47:45,984
But because it's eCash and there's like a break, a linkage between me knowing you as like a miner.

701
00:47:46,024 --> 00:47:49,604
I know that like I'm issuing these to you and I know how many I'm issuing to you.

702
00:47:49,744 --> 00:47:55,164
But when you go give them to somebody else and they bring them back to me, I don't know that it came from you originally, right?

703
00:47:55,164 --> 00:47:58,004
And that's like a basic principle of eCash in general.

704
00:47:58,444 --> 00:48:02,464
But when you apply this to mining, now you don't have accounts for a mining pool.

705
00:48:02,904 --> 00:48:05,024
You can simply say, hey, this share is valid.

706
00:48:05,124 --> 00:48:06,804
Let me give you an eCash token for it.

707
00:48:07,264 --> 00:48:09,404
And you don't need an account with me necessarily.

708
00:48:09,644 --> 00:48:10,883
I don't care who you are, right?

709
00:48:10,904 --> 00:48:16,704
I just know that you're giving me valid proof of work that shows that you're hashing to my pool, to my Coinbase or whatever it is.

710
00:48:17,264 --> 00:48:19,004
And so you can go on a secondary market.

711
00:48:19,004 --> 00:48:25,144
You don't have to come to me necessarily, but you can go sell these e-hash tokens for whatever rate that you want.

712
00:48:25,784 --> 00:48:29,984
And up until there's a block one or a reward paid out, it's a speculation.

713
00:48:30,544 --> 00:48:34,024
You have no idea what you can guess based on hash rate and everything like that.

714
00:48:34,304 --> 00:48:40,184
So you get your local OG to come float your bags if you have a mining operation that is unlucky or something like that.

715
00:48:40,504 --> 00:48:45,843
And they can just buy these from you up until the point of a payout and keep the operation going.

716
00:48:45,843 --> 00:48:52,304
um the other cool thing about it is because it's e-cash it's integrated with nostr and so like

717
00:48:52,304 --> 00:48:58,624
anybody anywhere can can buy these uh and now you get to decide what your hash rate is you can hold

718
00:48:58,624 --> 00:49:03,383
on to them right and then when the mining pool gets paid out now there's a definitive point in

719
00:49:03,383 --> 00:49:09,284
time where i have all of these e-hash shares outstanding and then i earned this many sets

720
00:49:09,284 --> 00:49:14,404
for my mining payout and you just do a very basic function or however you want to account for it

721
00:49:14,404 --> 00:49:18,504
But now you can know the definitive value of one e-hash that you've issued.

722
00:49:18,924 --> 00:49:22,044
So speculation up until a reward is found, right?

723
00:49:22,104 --> 00:49:24,883
And maybe that's a payout via Ocean over Bolt 12 Lightning.

724
00:49:25,204 --> 00:49:26,544
Or maybe it's an on-chain payment.

725
00:49:26,824 --> 00:49:29,524
But either way, that payment comes into the e-cash mint.

726
00:49:30,224 --> 00:49:33,404
And now if it's Lightning, you have inbound liquidity coming in over Lightning

727
00:49:33,404 --> 00:49:37,464
that you can go redeem your e-hash for actual sats on Lightning outbound.

728
00:49:37,644 --> 00:49:39,444
And it's like a balanced channel, right?

729
00:49:39,504 --> 00:49:41,064
Because Lightning, you have to balance these channels.

730
00:49:41,064 --> 00:49:47,484
so that's the whole premise of this thing called e-hash and it's just e-cash tokens for mining

731
00:49:47,484 --> 00:49:52,644
shares and it just sets up a new market dynamic that i think lowers the threshold of economic

732
00:49:52,644 --> 00:49:58,004
viability for a mining operation you don't have to go find some huge bag of bitcoin to make sure

733
00:49:58,004 --> 00:50:01,944
that your monthly electricity bill is cost if you're mining with e-cash you can kind of have

734
00:50:01,944 --> 00:50:07,383
a marketplace of these e-cash shares that can be traded about or you can hold on to it and then like

735
00:50:07,383 --> 00:50:11,124
when a payout happens, you go to the Mint and say, hey, give me real sats. And then the payout

736
00:50:11,124 --> 00:50:16,084
happens. And you're already, like the trust assumption, you're already trusting a mining

737
00:50:16,084 --> 00:50:19,824
pool anyway, right? You're trusting that Ocean's going to pay you out. You're trusting that

738
00:50:19,824 --> 00:50:24,704
Foundry or Antpool or whatever these brains pool. You're trusting that they're going to pay you out

739
00:50:24,704 --> 00:50:30,704
up until a point. So there's no like net new trust assumption, but you get this added benefits of

740
00:50:30,704 --> 00:50:35,964
e-cash privacy and this added benefit of like, I don't need to know your account, right? I can just

741
00:50:35,964 --> 00:50:40,044
issue these e-cash shares. And as long as you bring them back to me or whoever brings them back

742
00:50:40,044 --> 00:50:46,524
to me, it's a valid signature that I can check with cryptographic irrefutability. We're good.

743
00:50:46,784 --> 00:50:51,284
I don't care who you are. Now you still have the metadata of like, I'll see your IP address and I'll

744
00:50:51,284 --> 00:50:55,084
see the amount of hash rate you have and all this other stuff, but that's already the current

745
00:50:55,084 --> 00:50:59,383
paradigm. So if we can introduce this, and this is the same sort of argument from the e-cash

746
00:50:59,383 --> 00:51:03,604
side of things where it's, hey, we're going to still have custodians. They're not going away.

747
00:51:03,604 --> 00:51:28,804
In fact, they're increasing. So why would we not want every custodian to be an eCash Mint? So that way, even if you're going to rug me, any of the exchanges I use can rug me at any minute for whatever sats that I leave on there. And it's my fault. Same thing with a caching Mint. Any sats that I leave in a caching Mint, it can rug at any point. The difference being my exchange of choice, River, could rug just me.

748
00:51:28,804 --> 00:51:30,883
They could be like, yeah, Gary, you're a bad guy now.

749
00:51:31,064 --> 00:51:34,044
I'm removing all of your account and everything like that.

750
00:51:34,224 --> 00:51:36,024
With an eCash mint, it's like all or nothing.

751
00:51:36,444 --> 00:51:39,684
I either rug everyone or I rug no one because there's this private...

752
00:51:39,684 --> 00:51:41,804
I can't determine which ones I...

753
00:51:43,264 --> 00:51:47,544
The eCash you have, when you bring it back to me, I don't know where it originated from.

754
00:51:47,664 --> 00:51:51,284
I don't know that it was a bad eCash or anything like that.

755
00:51:51,584 --> 00:51:53,104
So it's just like a net benefit improvement.

756
00:51:53,264 --> 00:51:56,204
And now we're applying it to mining specifically for the shares.

757
00:51:56,204 --> 00:52:01,724
i think that's that's super fascinating and like i think the e-cash stuff like shout out to to cali

758
00:52:01,724 --> 00:52:08,244
for uh for cashew because like there's just been so much incredible development on that like just

759
00:52:08,244 --> 00:52:12,883
in like the he was on the show like maybe like a little over a year ago almost a year and a half

760
00:52:12,883 --> 00:52:17,244
ago and just like since then it's been wild and now you're bringing this other paradigm and it's

761
00:52:17,244 --> 00:52:22,844
one of those things where like it again yes uh you acknowledge it up front as cali always does

762
00:52:22,844 --> 00:52:28,284
like look yes you can be like rugged by this but they have to rug everybody it's the best shit coin

763
00:52:28,284 --> 00:52:34,724
yeah yeah like it's it yes there is a trade-off it's not layer one bitcoin correct like now that

764
00:52:34,724 --> 00:52:40,484
we've got that out of the way it serves a really important purpose which is having near perfect

765
00:52:40,484 --> 00:52:47,844
privacy which we obviously like oh my god all all this it's like there's always a new data breach

766
00:52:47,844 --> 00:52:52,024
right like this what was this app uh did you see this about a tea or something the app where women

767
00:52:52,024 --> 00:52:57,584
could like oh yeah and leaked all their driver's licenses and information it turns out shockingly

768
00:52:57,584 --> 00:53:02,124
that the company that was running this did not in fact delete the selfies and the driver's license

769
00:53:02,124 --> 00:53:07,124
photos that they took who could have guessed like the company actually lied about that and now all

770
00:53:07,124 --> 00:53:11,464
of that's out there now they just i just saw before we got on here like private you know private

771
00:53:11,464 --> 00:53:16,383
messages also leaked throughout this and it's like but this happens at every like this isn't just like

772
00:53:16,383 --> 00:53:21,264
with stupid you know rating men apps like this happens with everything this happens with exchanges

773
00:53:21,264 --> 00:53:40,644
This happens with bank account. This happens at every level of our interaction with the financial system where there is KYC, AML shit in place. And it's just like, wherever we can remove that, we should. And that seems to be what this is doing here at a really important level, which is at the mining level, right?

774
00:53:40,644 --> 00:54:06,164
Yeah. Yep. It's giving you an opportunity to have private accountless mining rewards. And that's not something that exists right now. I mean, it exists because like, so VMPRC did all the code heavy lifting. He did a BTC++ back in May, I think. He did a presentation on like the accounting piece of it, like FPPS, PPLNS, all these like acronyms of how mining payouts happen.

775
00:54:06,164 --> 00:54:12,804
that was right before my live demonstration of a proof of concept where i like mined e-hash and

776
00:54:12,804 --> 00:54:17,363
then talked about the technical specifics and then at the end of it i went and like copied the

777
00:54:17,363 --> 00:54:22,704
cashew token out of the mining logs and went to a web wallet that i just slightly modified to say

778
00:54:22,704 --> 00:54:29,584
like hey you have this new currency called hash and i redeemed an e-hash token in like a web wallet

779
00:54:29,584 --> 00:54:33,264
it's like one of the most i can't it's like nutstash or something like that but one of the

780
00:54:33,264 --> 00:54:38,764
commonly used web wallets and it worked like and there's a video on youtube you can go watch of it

781
00:54:38,764 --> 00:54:45,304
and so um we're at the point bmpc is is luckily funded to a degree to like continue work on this

782
00:54:45,304 --> 00:54:51,604
kind of stuff but the mining technical mining ecosystem um i think is going to see a huge

783
00:54:51,604 --> 00:54:57,324
renaissance with the advent of like the bid axe was huge right to like break open this open source

784
00:54:57,324 --> 00:55:03,564
hardware aspect it like get unique and novel form factors for bitcoin mining because the shoebox

785
00:55:03,564 --> 00:55:08,804
size of like these bitcoin miners don't fit all applications we need smaller scale more modular

786
00:55:08,804 --> 00:55:12,863
and everything like that you get that you get stradden b2 which is like a robust very modular

787
00:55:12,863 --> 00:55:19,044
uh way of like doing mining um and then you couple it with like these novel accounting things called

788
00:55:19,044 --> 00:55:24,324
e-hash and like things are going to rip baby it's going to be awesome i think that's so good i still

789
00:55:24,324 --> 00:55:31,383
you were nice enough to sell me a bid axe for sats when we were together, which was great. Just

790
00:55:31,383 --> 00:55:39,304
a nice little P2P transaction. And I still actually have to set mine up. It's sitting

791
00:55:39,304 --> 00:55:44,844
right over. After this, this is going to be a tonight project for me, I think. Now that I've

792
00:55:44,844 --> 00:55:50,224
seen you, I've got to be held accountable. But I love all of these things that are really,

793
00:55:50,224 --> 00:55:55,004
you know and we were talking about democracy earlier but for lack of a better word democratizing

794
00:55:55,004 --> 00:56:01,363
there we go that bad boy bit x gamma 602 it's the same chip that's in an s21 right so you get the

795
00:56:01,363 --> 00:56:06,764
same like efficiency but it's one chip now they're making boards that look like you ever do like a

796
00:56:06,764 --> 00:56:14,404
gaming card in your pc yeah so we are going to have like a pcie card that like just goes into

797
00:56:14,404 --> 00:56:19,004
your computer and it's like a hundred or so watts with a bunch of these chips like 12 of these chips

798
00:56:19,004 --> 00:56:24,344
on it that you can just plug into your computer and mine from your computer, which by the way,

799
00:56:24,383 --> 00:56:29,084
might be running a Bitcoin node, right? So like, or can do whatever you want to do with it. You can

800
00:56:29,084 --> 00:56:34,304
have it running your thermostat or any of these things. The 256 foundation, if you never talked

801
00:56:34,304 --> 00:56:38,664
to those guys, that's, they'd be a good one to chat with. They're the ones pushing. I think

802
00:56:38,664 --> 00:56:43,544
their mission statement is to like dismantle the proprietary Bitcoin mining empire, which is a

803
00:56:43,544 --> 00:56:48,084
pretty admirable and thing that I can get down with. Yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a

804
00:56:48,084 --> 00:56:52,264
great mission statement right there yeah and i mean so that's the thing like obviously we're seeing

805
00:56:52,264 --> 00:56:59,504
there is a trend toward centralization uh like with these like if you look at the pool distribution

806
00:56:59,504 --> 00:57:05,144
right it's like it's a little bit it's a little bit scary but at the same time we do have there's

807
00:57:05,144 --> 00:57:12,404
all this uh this kind of grassroots bottom up counter movement that is like enabling plebs

808
00:57:12,404 --> 00:57:16,904
to be able to mine at whatever scale whether it's you know you know just plugging in one bit

809
00:57:16,904 --> 00:57:19,084
and like, you know, doing your small part

810
00:57:19,084 --> 00:57:20,844
or anything in between there,

811
00:57:20,924 --> 00:57:22,784
like that gives me a lot of hope

812
00:57:22,784 --> 00:57:24,904
because like this is still like early days

813
00:57:24,904 --> 00:57:27,784
of some of these much more like one economical

814
00:57:27,784 --> 00:57:29,664
because not everybody has the cash to shell out,

815
00:57:29,764 --> 00:57:31,944
you know, for a brand new, you know,

816
00:57:32,004 --> 00:57:33,264
top of the line mining rig.

817
00:57:33,504 --> 00:57:33,784
Right.

818
00:57:34,344 --> 00:57:36,264
And on the other hand, it's just like,

819
00:57:36,344 --> 00:57:37,464
it's like, it's a fun thing

820
00:57:37,464 --> 00:57:38,544
where people actually have the ability

821
00:57:38,544 --> 00:57:41,264
to participate in the Bitcoin network

822
00:57:41,264 --> 00:57:42,844
in a way that they maybe previously

823
00:57:42,844 --> 00:57:43,924
didn't have exposure to.

824
00:57:44,024 --> 00:57:45,544
And I feel like the more people that do that,

825
00:57:45,544 --> 00:57:50,244
that just gets more people psyched about like the actual like getting down into the nitty gritty

826
00:57:50,244 --> 00:57:55,664
ethos of like why the fuck we're here doing this in the first place right like like because again

827
00:57:55,664 --> 00:58:00,824
like you we are trying to get away from centralization some centralization is always

828
00:58:00,824 --> 00:58:05,883
gonna like many systems will trend toward that like that's somewhat natural from like a you know

829
00:58:05,883 --> 00:58:11,464
an efficient economic perspective like i get why these pools suck in a lot of capital like

830
00:58:11,464 --> 00:58:18,024
it makes sense it's efficient yeah yeah yeah and like and it makes it a lot easier for you when

831
00:58:18,024 --> 00:58:21,904
you're just direct you know okay point my hash right at the pool good to go but like on the

832
00:58:21,904 --> 00:58:26,944
other hand it's like we should do everything we can to uh to have that bottom-up movement that is

833
00:58:26,944 --> 00:58:32,244
trying to separate or to uh no to add in as many new sources of hash power as possible no matter

834
00:58:32,244 --> 00:58:37,984
how small right like every you know every bid axe matters it's crazy because i've met you know now

835
00:58:37,984 --> 00:58:42,863
being in mining, I had to go to some of these mining specific events. And I met a guy that has

836
00:58:42,863 --> 00:58:49,324
multiple old army generators. They're not generators, but I can't remember the name for it,

837
00:58:49,324 --> 00:58:55,184
but they're bigger, right? It's lots of power that you fuel this thing with and bought it for

838
00:58:55,184 --> 00:59:00,284
pennies on the dollar sort of thing off of Facebook marketplace and then took it to his

839
00:59:00,284 --> 00:59:04,984
flare gas site and plugged it in and it is hashing with it, right? And it's not a small amount of

840
00:59:04,984 --> 00:59:12,344
hash right it's it's several actual you know full-fledged s19s or better and it's cheap power

841
00:59:12,344 --> 00:59:17,284
so he's doing pretty well because he's printing bitcoin with his bitcoin miners and he can mine

842
00:59:17,284 --> 00:59:23,304
to anywhere in the world right you just need a very very minimal robust connection starlink works

843
00:59:23,304 --> 00:59:28,344
great now but if you don't you could do like they were doing uh long-range wi-fi out in west texas

844
00:59:28,344 --> 00:59:32,984
and some of these sites where it's just like point to point like you point a wi-fi antenna and you

845
00:59:32,984 --> 00:59:38,504
You can get very, very like the higher frequencies with radio.

846
00:59:38,684 --> 00:59:42,344
You can like point them and direct them and they go really, really far and you get really high data rates.

847
00:59:42,784 --> 00:59:43,984
You don't need super robust.

848
00:59:43,984 --> 00:59:50,344
You can do like long range Wi-Fi over miles to connect your Bitcoin miner up to whatever pool you want to.

849
00:59:51,024 --> 00:59:52,744
And like you're mining stats in the middle of nowhere.

850
00:59:52,944 --> 00:59:54,104
I mean, that's what they're doing in Africa, right?

851
00:59:54,164 --> 00:59:57,244
Like these African villages, they're like, oh, there's a hydro dam.

852
00:59:57,324 --> 00:59:57,624
Yeah, sure.

853
00:59:57,664 --> 01:00:02,464
We'll just come bring Bitcoin miners and we'll pay to like establish electrical infrastructure so you can have lights.

854
01:00:02,464 --> 01:00:05,984
so your kids can learn how to read and like refrigeration so you can have like fresh food

855
01:00:05,984 --> 01:00:09,704
and stuff like that that these people have never had before in their lives and the people doing it

856
01:00:09,704 --> 01:00:14,744
was like yeah i'm i'm making money off of this but like i'm making money by doing a good thing

857
01:00:14,744 --> 01:00:19,383
right bringing electricity to a village in the middle of africa is a noble thing to do i believe

858
01:00:19,383 --> 01:00:26,144
i i agree and like i uh gladstein's coverage of a lot of that has been awesome i think that's like

859
01:00:26,144 --> 01:00:31,284
what's helped bring it into kind of somewhat more of the the mainstream eye even though again like

860
01:00:31,284 --> 01:00:35,444
vast majority of people still just have no idea what's what's going on with anything related to

861
01:00:35,444 --> 01:00:40,084
bitcoin like we are still very early but at the same time like these are the kind of stories that

862
01:00:40,084 --> 01:00:44,484
end up getting like that end up getting picked up right like it's one of those things like you just

863
01:00:44,484 --> 01:00:49,124
can't like you know trying to like argue against like veterans or like it's like you're trying to

864
01:00:49,124 --> 01:00:54,724
argue against like electrifying a rural african village so that kids can you know be able to

865
01:00:54,724 --> 01:00:59,383
actually have light to see by and like like it just like what are you gonna argue how are you

866
01:00:59,383 --> 01:01:02,924
going to argue against that or like oh yeah i'm taking this flared gas and i hooked up a generator

867
01:01:02,924 --> 01:01:07,684
to it so it's no longer just burning you know into the atmosphere and now i'm turning this into

868
01:01:07,684 --> 01:01:12,264
bitcoin like what what's your what's your argument like your argument against that there isn't a

869
01:01:12,264 --> 01:01:16,863
rational argument against that there is only like an irrational argument that maybe makes sense in

870
01:01:16,863 --> 01:01:20,984
the brains of somebody like elizabeth warren but not in anybody that is actually being you know

871
01:01:20,984 --> 01:01:25,024
being honest with themselves or everybody else and like i love that kind of stuff it's like the

872
01:01:25,024 --> 01:01:30,104
landfill gas mining as well like another type of flared mining where it's like yes this is awesome

873
01:01:30,104 --> 01:01:35,584
because what are you going to say against this like it's just it's good it is a good thing and

874
01:01:35,584 --> 01:01:41,504
we should have as much of it as possible like great thank you bitcoin miners for your ingenuity

875
01:01:41,504 --> 01:01:46,984
like we should be praising this kind of stuff and i think that i mean obviously there's been a vibe

876
01:01:46,984 --> 01:01:52,744
shift in terms of the the overall recognition of bitcoin but back to what where we started with

877
01:01:52,744 --> 01:01:58,504
this in terms of talking to some of the staffers in DC, especially Democratic staffers, which is

878
01:01:58,504 --> 01:02:05,624
all I talked to being from Illinois. Yep. There's still so many misperceptions out there. And people

879
01:02:05,624 --> 01:02:10,144
have this tendency, like, because Trump speaks positively about Bitcoin, that must mean that

880
01:02:10,144 --> 01:02:15,284
being positive about Bitcoin is a Trump thing. It's like, people, you are only hurting yourselves

881
01:02:15,284 --> 01:02:20,664
and your constituents when you associate Bitcoin with Trump. It's, it's like, it's not his,

882
01:02:20,664 --> 01:02:27,424
it's everyone's it's anyone's you're just literally only hurting yourself and i think i hope more

883
01:02:27,424 --> 01:02:30,904
people are coming around to that on the other hand it's like a lot of these people are just really

884
01:02:30,904 --> 01:02:36,023
really really old and they just won't be in office much longer and that's how things are going to

885
01:02:36,023 --> 01:02:40,424
change and we've had a whole new influx of bitcoiners too that because trump is like bitcoin

886
01:02:40,424 --> 01:02:45,804
like you know i live in a pretty red area rural agricultural area and so like some people when

887
01:02:45,804 --> 01:02:47,544
And Trump was like, Bitcoin, yay.

888
01:02:48,324 --> 01:02:51,344
They came back and were like, hey, Gary, you still doing that Bitcoin thing?

889
01:02:51,404 --> 01:02:53,104
And I'm like, yeah, what do you want to know?

890
01:02:53,404 --> 01:02:54,664
They're like, oh, what Trump's talking about.

891
01:02:54,704 --> 01:02:55,584
I was like, okay, I don't care.

892
01:02:55,804 --> 01:02:58,124
It works for me the same as it works for him.

893
01:02:58,464 --> 01:03:01,004
So if you want to learn, I will teach you.

894
01:03:01,324 --> 01:03:06,864
You just have to take the time out of your day to come and let me rant at you, I guess.

895
01:03:07,144 --> 01:03:07,964
That's the hard part.

896
01:03:08,504 --> 01:03:10,244
You've got to find the entry point for everyone.

897
01:03:11,124 --> 01:03:11,264
Yeah.

898
01:03:11,624 --> 01:03:12,984
I had the same experience.

899
01:03:12,984 --> 01:03:17,384
A couple of my really good buddies, I love these dudes.

900
01:03:17,584 --> 01:03:20,644
They're good friends of mine and smart dudes too.

901
01:03:20,784 --> 01:03:26,644
Very smart and successful dudes, but just couldn't get them to really give too much of a shit about Bitcoin.

902
01:03:27,584 --> 01:03:30,564
And then it was like Trump came out and they were like, all right, I'll get some.

903
01:03:31,023 --> 01:03:32,984
And I was like, okay.

904
01:03:34,144 --> 01:03:37,924
My first meetup attendee is one of my local friends here.

905
01:03:38,644 --> 01:03:41,044
He showed up, like the only person to show up.

906
01:03:41,044 --> 01:03:45,064
I had slides on a projector on a wall of like a side room in a restaurant.

907
01:03:45,684 --> 01:03:48,164
And I gave my like 101 presentation.

908
01:03:48,884 --> 01:03:54,984
He still is a no-coiner to my knowledge, even though I've been like, hey, whenever you want to set up your wall, he said, oh, yeah, I'll figure it out eventually.

909
01:03:55,144 --> 01:03:58,344
And it's just like, it's just not – but he gets everything.

910
01:03:58,444 --> 01:04:01,704
Like I met him through like sort of like libertarian circles in the area.

911
01:04:01,704 --> 01:04:06,624
So he gets like, and the Fed, he gets the problem with all of modernity.

912
01:04:06,884 --> 01:04:07,023
Right.

913
01:04:07,523 --> 01:04:13,344
And, but has yet to like, take it upon himself to like actually do the thing.

914
01:04:13,344 --> 01:04:16,724
And it just, I mean, at this point, I'm just like, all right, that's whatever, dude.

915
01:04:16,964 --> 01:04:18,144
Does he still come to meetups?

916
01:04:18,624 --> 01:04:19,364
No, no, no.

917
01:04:19,404 --> 01:04:20,884
He came to that one and that was it.

918
01:04:20,964 --> 01:04:22,284
Like, yeah, it doesn't go to meetups.

919
01:04:22,523 --> 01:04:24,764
Just kind of was like, oh, thanks for having me.

920
01:04:24,804 --> 01:04:25,344
Like, that's cool.

921
01:04:25,424 --> 01:04:29,204
But yeah, still a no-coiner as far as I know.

922
01:04:29,744 --> 01:04:30,504
People are funny.

923
01:04:30,504 --> 01:04:54,544
I think sometimes it's like a lot of people, just especially in the USA, like if you're doing okay, like if you're not, if the fiat system hasn't totally beat you down yet, or at least you're not aware of how much it's beaten down your potential, you're just like, well, you know, maybe this sounds interesting, but like, I don't really need it or whatever this, you know, this magic internet money.

924
01:04:54,584 --> 01:04:55,884
I don't really need it yet.

925
01:04:55,984 --> 01:04:56,384
Yeah.

926
01:04:56,384 --> 01:05:14,184
Whereas depending on what part of the world you're from, like if you're from a place where the currency has been devalued by half overnight multiple times in your own lifetime, like, oh, yeah, you get why you might want something that has an absolutely capped total supply.

927
01:05:14,184 --> 01:05:17,204
or if, for instance, you've had your bank account shut down,

928
01:05:17,584 --> 01:05:20,364
you very quickly understand why censorship-resistant money

929
01:05:20,364 --> 01:05:22,924
is a really good thing and you would want that.

930
01:05:23,004 --> 01:05:25,504
You don't have to explain why those things are good

931
01:05:25,504 --> 01:05:29,244
to people who have experienced the negative side of that equation.

932
01:05:29,724 --> 01:05:34,184
For people that haven't, it's a tougher sell.

933
01:05:34,184 --> 01:05:36,004
Even if you talk about inflation, it's like,

934
01:05:36,404 --> 01:05:39,144
yeah, look, this cabal of central bankers

935
01:05:39,144 --> 01:05:41,624
is literally stealing your life's work from you.

936
01:05:41,624 --> 01:05:44,484
but it's like, yeah, but it's not that much, you know,

937
01:05:44,544 --> 01:05:46,844
my stock portfolio is up. So I've got no problem.

938
01:05:47,064 --> 01:05:49,164
Well, my house is, my house is worth, you know,

939
01:05:49,244 --> 01:05:51,484
worth more than it more than it was. Cause I, you know,

940
01:05:51,484 --> 01:05:56,204
I bought it pre COVID and now it's doubled in value. Like that's another,

941
01:05:56,304 --> 01:05:58,584
this is a digression, but like, it's wild to like, look,

942
01:05:58,744 --> 01:06:01,504
look at the real estate markets, like pretty much across the board,

943
01:06:01,504 --> 01:06:03,004
but certain areas, obviously more so than others.

944
01:06:03,004 --> 01:06:06,964
Like you look at the pre COVID prices for real estate and it's just like,

945
01:06:06,964 --> 01:06:14,504
oh my god like it was just like it was literally like half in many cases of what it what it is now

946
01:06:14,504 --> 01:06:19,704
like they prices literally doubled in across so we bought into equity we bought in 2021

947
01:06:19,704 --> 01:06:25,824
this is like pre-bitcoin right i mean it's like we got rates through the floor we got like a good

948
01:06:25,824 --> 01:06:30,624
price because we locked it in they built the house um but like the price of the house like

949
01:06:30,624 --> 01:06:33,584
the reason I get all these equity scam calls all the time is like,

950
01:06:34,064 --> 01:06:38,624
oh, well, they know that the house value went up.

951
01:06:38,664 --> 01:06:39,584
And I'm like, no, it hasn't.

952
01:06:39,644 --> 01:06:41,044
Like there's a nick on the wall now.

953
01:06:41,124 --> 01:06:42,244
It's like a brand new nice house.

954
01:06:42,324 --> 01:06:45,064
Like it's definitely gone down to value because we've used the shit out of it.

955
01:06:45,464 --> 01:06:47,404
And people just don't understand it.

956
01:06:48,404 --> 01:06:49,364
It is wild.

957
01:06:49,504 --> 01:06:51,564
It's like, and houses are like,

958
01:06:51,924 --> 01:06:55,344
houses are great for living in and for raising a family in.

959
01:06:55,344 --> 01:06:58,844
And, you know, for, you know, for using.

960
01:06:58,844 --> 01:07:03,484
they're just really, really bad stores of value compared to Bitcoin.

961
01:07:03,484 --> 01:07:05,924
Because Bitcoin doesn't get that nick in the wall.

962
01:07:05,924 --> 01:07:10,304
Bitcoin doesn't have the water heater blow out or whatever might happen like that.

963
01:07:10,304 --> 01:07:21,535
Bitcoin just perfectly exists in its state forever Whereas your house is just like it just gets beaten up and it it a liability right It costing you more money Like it

964
01:07:21,655 --> 01:07:24,095
unless you are putting in a ton of money to it,

965
01:07:24,095 --> 01:07:26,535
to remodel it or to do upgrades to it,

966
01:07:26,555 --> 01:07:27,376
to add a new addition,

967
01:07:27,475 --> 01:07:27,715
whatever,

968
01:07:27,715 --> 01:07:29,615
like it's not getting more valuable.

969
01:07:29,715 --> 01:07:30,535
Like it's,

970
01:07:30,615 --> 01:07:30,795
you know,

971
01:07:30,795 --> 01:07:31,095
and,

972
01:07:31,235 --> 01:07:31,856
but people just,

973
01:07:31,955 --> 01:07:34,135
we have not been ingrained that way.

974
01:07:34,155 --> 01:07:35,175
And that's why a house that's,

975
01:07:35,175 --> 01:07:35,455
you know,

976
01:07:35,995 --> 01:07:36,335
30,

977
01:07:36,475 --> 01:07:37,376
40 years old,

978
01:07:37,376 --> 01:07:37,755
that is,

979
01:07:37,815 --> 01:07:37,995
you know,

980
01:07:37,995 --> 01:07:41,035
not had anything done to it and has just kind of degraded into

981
01:07:41,035 --> 01:07:46,416
deteriorated little by little it's worth you know 10 15 times as much as it was when it was built

982
01:07:46,416 --> 01:07:52,515
and it's just like but we're like people just aren't ready for that yet and i think like people

983
01:07:52,515 --> 01:07:57,635
it's going to be actually really messy when people really start realizing like four years from now

984
01:07:57,635 --> 01:08:05,475
like oh wait like this whole bitcoin thing like it really is repricing my house like hold on bitcoin

985
01:08:05,475 --> 01:08:09,095
was worth how much now in my house is worth this like the math is going to break people's brains

986
01:08:09,095 --> 01:08:11,075
It should already if you've looked at the math.

987
01:08:11,575 --> 01:08:14,115
But again, we're still so fucking early.

988
01:08:14,856 --> 01:08:18,595
Well, it's like the median home prices now.

989
01:08:19,615 --> 01:08:20,235
What was it?

990
01:08:20,335 --> 01:08:24,996
It was, oh, one Bitcoin is like 0.28 of a median home.

991
01:08:25,135 --> 01:08:25,795
It's one of the things.

992
01:08:26,075 --> 01:08:31,115
So the Bitcoin veterans, DIB, the Daily Intelligence Bulletin, one of the prices he puts in there is like ounces of gold.

993
01:08:31,536 --> 01:08:32,575
Obviously the fiat price.

994
01:08:32,655 --> 01:08:36,916
But then like how much of a median home can you buy with one Bitcoin?

995
01:08:36,916 --> 01:08:42,036
and that's cool to watch out because that number is like going up because eventually a median home

996
01:08:42,036 --> 01:08:46,635
in the u.s is it's going to be one bitcoin like you with one bitcoin you will be able to buy a

997
01:08:46,635 --> 01:08:55,675
house which is ridiculous to think of um especially where like i'm always flabbergasted when i sit

998
01:08:55,675 --> 01:08:59,735
back and reflect on just like the historical and like the the convergence of all the things like

999
01:08:59,735 --> 01:09:03,556
understanding sort of like economics australian economics and everything like that right having a

1000
01:09:03,556 --> 01:09:07,916
job in like engineering um having read like rich dad poor dad understanding that like real estate

1001
01:09:07,916 --> 01:09:12,615
is not an asset sort of thing was like that framing gave it to me being very tuned into budgeting and

1002
01:09:12,615 --> 01:09:16,675
then like i hit this bitcoin thing and it's like this perfect convergence of like all of these

1003
01:09:16,675 --> 01:09:22,075
things in my past that i went hard and fast down the rabbit hole this was like end of 21 early 22

1004
01:09:22,075 --> 01:09:26,036
and like all throughout the bear i'm just like a rabid bitcoiner like telling and they're like

1005
01:09:26,036 --> 01:09:28,855
it's going down what are you talking about i was like no but you don't understand

1006
01:09:28,855 --> 01:09:34,335
oh you know part of me wishes like as we're as you know we're pumping around it i know

1007
01:09:34,335 --> 01:09:38,416
bitcoin's boring right now because it's only at like you know 118 000 or something and only

1008
01:09:38,416 --> 01:09:45,036
the memories of goldfish apparently but like part of me like yeah it's a number go up is fun but boy

1009
01:09:45,036 --> 01:09:50,835
number go down is really fun too because it means you can actually stack cheap sats while everyone

1010
01:09:50,835 --> 01:09:56,275
else is freaking out like so i just paid i wouldn't mind 58k gang again is all i'm saying

1011
01:09:56,275 --> 01:09:58,536
throwing it out there. It'd be painful. But like,

1012
01:09:59,135 --> 01:10:02,476
there might be a problem for my marriage because I would like liquidate everything.

1013
01:10:02,916 --> 01:10:07,935
And my wife's not cool with that yet. So, you know, it might be a problem, but I would take it

1014
01:10:07,935 --> 01:10:11,815
on the number go down though. The number goes down that like the dollar number go down. That's

1015
01:10:11,815 --> 01:10:17,855
not important, right? It's nice. But I just paid my rancher today for another head and a half of

1016
01:10:17,855 --> 01:10:23,135
cattle. The head into the half of cattle was cheaper than the full head of cattle last time

1017
01:10:23,135 --> 01:10:28,335
in Bitcoin terms because I paid Bitcoin. So like the first time I bought a head of cattle,

1018
01:10:28,496 --> 01:10:34,376
it was like 16 million sats, right? The second time I bought it was 8 million sats. The third

1019
01:10:34,376 --> 01:10:40,476
time was 7 million sats. And this time I just paid 5.8 million sats for a head and a half

1020
01:10:40,476 --> 01:10:46,416
of cattle. So it's like when I talk about that, like that's one of the, I'm still on Facebook

1021
01:10:46,416 --> 01:10:51,195
due to local small business stuff and like the gym that we're members of, very strong like

1022
01:10:51,195 --> 01:10:54,036
Facebook presence and I only post Bitcoin propaganda.

1023
01:10:54,295 --> 01:10:56,155
But one of my favorite thing to post on there is like,

1024
01:10:56,255 --> 01:10:57,655
everything's getting cheaper for me.

1025
01:10:57,755 --> 01:10:58,496
It's so wonderful.

1026
01:10:59,135 --> 01:11:02,956
And I have a friend who's like a giant think boy engineer at one of the big

1027
01:11:02,956 --> 01:11:05,395
tech companies that just like loves to do the,

1028
01:11:05,476 --> 01:11:06,435
all the highbrow FUD.

1029
01:11:07,115 --> 01:11:08,956
And I'm just waiting when we flip NVIDIA,

1030
01:11:09,095 --> 01:11:09,635
that's where he works.

1031
01:11:09,635 --> 01:11:10,516
When we flip NVIDIA,

1032
01:11:10,755 --> 01:11:15,036
that's when I will have a leg to stand on with him as far as he's concerned.

1033
01:11:15,355 --> 01:11:16,456
So it's so close to,

1034
01:11:16,536 --> 01:11:17,195
yeah,

1035
01:11:17,376 --> 01:11:17,976
like we're,

1036
01:11:18,235 --> 01:11:18,496
we're,

1037
01:11:18,496 --> 01:11:18,916
we're very,

1038
01:11:18,996 --> 01:11:19,235
we're just,

1039
01:11:19,315 --> 01:11:19,456
you know,

1040
01:11:19,456 --> 01:11:21,275
it's just the grim reaper knocking on that door.

1041
01:11:21,416 --> 01:11:22,016
Like it's,

1042
01:11:22,075 --> 01:11:22,255
it's,

1043
01:11:22,255 --> 01:11:23,195
it's one after another.

1044
01:11:23,996 --> 01:11:24,355
Yeah.

1045
01:11:25,115 --> 01:11:26,456
When the number go down for me,

1046
01:11:26,476 --> 01:11:27,876
like I got three kids,

1047
01:11:27,935 --> 01:11:28,135
right?

1048
01:11:28,155 --> 01:11:28,456
So,

1049
01:11:29,195 --> 01:11:29,516
you know,

1050
01:11:29,715 --> 01:11:31,215
the wedding costs of,

1051
01:11:31,416 --> 01:11:35,155
of my kids in the future goes down over time in Bitcoin terms,

1052
01:11:35,355 --> 01:11:35,855
right?

1053
01:11:35,876 --> 01:11:36,516
The tuition,

1054
01:11:36,855 --> 01:11:39,335
like you put away some money for tuition and it's like,

1055
01:11:39,335 --> 01:11:39,556
Oh,

1056
01:11:39,635 --> 01:11:39,855
look at,

1057
01:11:39,916 --> 01:11:41,876
we didn't actually have to spend all the Bitcoin we bought for the

1058
01:11:41,876 --> 01:11:43,056
tuition because we pumped.

1059
01:11:43,815 --> 01:11:44,215
Congratulations.

1060
01:11:46,516 --> 01:11:48,395
Like it's a complete reframing.

1061
01:11:48,395 --> 01:11:53,275
And I think that that's like, we've been so conditioned to think that everything must get more expensive.

1062
01:11:53,755 --> 01:11:56,916
Like that it just, not that it must even, that's just what happens.

1063
01:11:57,255 --> 01:12:00,595
Like this is just a normal part of things.

1064
01:12:00,695 --> 01:12:01,916
Everything just gets more expensive.

1065
01:12:02,635 --> 01:12:09,315
I know for me and for a lot of people, I think Jeff Booth's The Price of Tomorrow was like a huge, just like eye-opening thing.

1066
01:12:09,416 --> 01:12:12,376
Like I was already partially down the Bitcoin rabbit hole.

1067
01:12:12,376 --> 01:12:15,996
But then I read that and like I've read it again since then.

1068
01:12:15,996 --> 01:12:23,175
And it was just like one of those like moments where I thought, oh my God, the scale of the

1069
01:12:23,175 --> 01:12:27,735
theft is so much worse than I realized because everything should be getting like necessarily

1070
01:12:27,735 --> 01:12:30,496
should be getting cheaper because technology makes it cheaper.

1071
01:12:30,675 --> 01:12:31,155
Like duh.

1072
01:12:31,496 --> 01:12:35,416
But you know, until you hear those simple words expressed in that way, like it's obvious

1073
01:12:35,416 --> 01:12:39,615
in hindsight, but until you hear it, you don't really, you don't really grok it.

1074
01:12:39,695 --> 01:12:42,516
Like, I think that's why, that's why his book was so profound for so many people.

1075
01:12:42,516 --> 01:12:44,395
It's because you just needed to hear that.

1076
01:12:44,395 --> 01:12:49,115
And then once you hear it, you're like, oh, my God, like they are really stealing from us.

1077
01:12:49,115 --> 01:12:51,075
Just hand over fist year after year.

1078
01:12:51,155 --> 01:12:51,795
And it's disgusting.

1079
01:12:52,516 --> 01:12:58,295
The other Jeff that I like to follow only on Noster, Dr. Jeff Booth or Ross.

1080
01:12:58,615 --> 01:12:58,895
Ross.

1081
01:12:58,996 --> 01:12:59,095
Yeah.

1082
01:12:59,215 --> 01:12:59,376
Yeah.

1083
01:12:59,496 --> 01:12:59,935
Jeff Ross.

1084
01:13:00,275 --> 01:13:01,815
He just posted something earlier today.

1085
01:13:01,835 --> 01:13:05,675
I saw he was like bullish on blue collar skills, bearish on white collar skills.

1086
01:13:06,235 --> 01:13:09,135
That to me, because like have you tried vibe coding yet?

1087
01:13:10,275 --> 01:13:11,195
No, not really.

1088
01:13:11,255 --> 01:13:12,956
I mean, beyond just like a little tinkering.

1089
01:13:12,956 --> 01:13:16,335
Like, no, no, I have not to a significant level.

1090
01:13:16,715 --> 01:13:17,155
It's incredible.

1091
01:13:17,275 --> 01:13:18,815
And I've demoed this at BitDev.

1092
01:13:18,895 --> 01:13:21,456
So one of the other things I do is I help run DC BitDevs.

1093
01:13:21,675 --> 01:13:24,996
So if you're ever in the DC area, we do it like usually the third Thursday of the month.

1094
01:13:25,635 --> 01:13:27,976
We'll end up most likely at PubKey eventually.

1095
01:13:28,195 --> 01:13:29,376
So PubKey DC is coming.

1096
01:13:30,016 --> 01:13:32,675
And that's probably where BitDevs will rehome itself eventually.

1097
01:13:32,876 --> 01:13:35,456
We got booted out of the strategy headquarters.

1098
01:13:37,235 --> 01:13:40,876
But presenting there, I was like, hey, what do you want to build?

1099
01:13:41,115 --> 01:13:41,235
Right?

1100
01:13:41,235 --> 01:13:42,195
Like anybody in the crowd.

1101
01:13:42,416 --> 01:13:42,876
What do you want to build?

1102
01:13:42,956 --> 01:13:44,916
And then I just put it into the prompt.

1103
01:13:45,395 --> 01:13:46,416
I was like, hey, I put on.

1104
01:13:46,635 --> 01:13:50,655
So what you can do is you can open up the prompt and then turn on like speech to text.

1105
01:13:51,115 --> 01:13:52,775
And then you just talk to it.

1106
01:13:53,595 --> 01:13:54,575
And that's it.

1107
01:13:54,695 --> 01:13:56,095
And then you just tell it what you want.

1108
01:13:56,795 --> 01:13:58,715
And it just, I mean, it shits something out.

1109
01:13:58,775 --> 01:14:00,775
It's not going to be production quality, right?

1110
01:14:00,775 --> 01:14:03,795
It's not going to, you're not going to like run a business on something that you vibe code necessarily.

1111
01:14:04,516 --> 01:14:09,155
But as an engineer, I know how to talk to this thing as an engineer.

1112
01:14:09,155 --> 01:14:11,956
and I treat it like an intern that doesn't talk back,

1113
01:14:12,056 --> 01:14:14,335
doesn't get tired and does exactly what I tell it to do.

1114
01:14:14,895 --> 01:14:16,855
So it's like, I've learned now, it's like, okay,

1115
01:14:16,895 --> 01:14:19,036
as long as I can tell it exactly what I want,

1116
01:14:19,095 --> 01:14:20,516
I've gotten better at sort of like framing

1117
01:14:20,516 --> 01:14:21,675
the context of everything.

1118
01:14:22,315 --> 01:14:23,675
I mean, this thing is incredible.

1119
01:14:24,016 --> 01:14:26,235
It's like, yes, all the white collar jobs are going away.

1120
01:14:27,095 --> 01:14:28,895
All the jobs, let me rephrase that.

1121
01:14:29,155 --> 01:14:33,095
All the jobs that require just like pushing paper around

1122
01:14:33,095 --> 01:14:34,976
and like Excel spreadsheets and all this other,

1123
01:14:35,095 --> 01:14:36,735
like it's going to go away.

1124
01:14:36,735 --> 01:14:41,135
Like you're not going to need a team of 10 accountants to run the books.

1125
01:14:41,335 --> 01:14:46,456
You're going to have like a couple of dudes maybe that are using AI to like run the books for you.

1126
01:14:46,556 --> 01:14:48,295
And it will be better than the team of 10.

1127
01:14:49,155 --> 01:14:54,536
Well, I think too, a lot of the low level programming jobs are going away.

1128
01:14:54,976 --> 01:14:58,876
Like I think India's economy is going to get destroyed.

1129
01:14:59,575 --> 01:15:02,476
And like people are like, it's been good for them for a while.

1130
01:15:02,476 --> 01:15:09,556
like it all of those like fiverr type low level you know like grunt work programming jobs those

1131
01:15:09,556 --> 01:15:14,916
are going away like they're and they will not come back because you don't need like it's not

1132
01:15:14,916 --> 01:15:19,175
like you need to have your you know a really competent engineer and then like a team of like

1133
01:15:19,175 --> 01:15:22,655
grunts who are doing all the really boring setup stuff but it still needs to be done because like

1134
01:15:22,655 --> 01:15:27,315
it's you know a necessary part of you know the process now it's just like no you can just have

1135
01:15:27,315 --> 01:15:32,036
that one engineer just literally have have ai handle it like they can just literally vibe code

1136
01:15:32,036 --> 01:15:35,615
what they need this seven like we're still in the early innings of this we're like it's going to get

1137
01:15:35,615 --> 01:15:41,355
exponentially better i currently have increasing rate like three vibe coding sessions up right now

1138
01:15:41,355 --> 01:15:46,135
on my computer like what do you use what's your what's your preferred if you're gonna do software

1139
01:15:46,135 --> 01:15:50,615
i found that claude i mean i think any of them probably will get you there if you're not technical

1140
01:15:50,615 --> 01:15:56,435
but the claude models from my experience and like understanding is like they've kind of

1141
01:15:56,435 --> 01:16:01,976
honed in on like software and like being really good for like engineers and stuff like that

1142
01:16:01,976 --> 01:16:04,496
and then like the Goose

1143
01:16:04,496 --> 01:16:07,155
which is blocks open source like AI thing

1144
01:16:07,155 --> 01:16:08,735
that's really powerful

1145
01:16:08,735 --> 01:16:10,335
I had one of my friends who's like

1146
01:16:10,335 --> 01:16:11,535
yeah I've been thinking about writing a book stuff

1147
01:16:11,535 --> 01:16:12,916
I'm like go download this Goose thing

1148
01:16:12,916 --> 01:16:15,175
plug it in sign up for Grok or whatever

1149
01:16:15,175 --> 01:16:17,595
like it interfaces with all these different AIs

1150
01:16:17,595 --> 01:16:19,275
and I was like just talk to it

1151
01:16:19,275 --> 01:16:20,395
like tell it your book idea

1152
01:16:20,395 --> 01:16:21,775
tell it exactly what it is

1153
01:16:21,775 --> 01:16:24,335
and it can build out everything you need for it

1154
01:16:24,335 --> 01:16:25,235
right you can be like hey

1155
01:16:25,235 --> 01:16:27,155
I want to create a rough draft outline

1156
01:16:27,155 --> 01:16:28,395
about blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

1157
01:16:28,395 --> 01:16:29,795
and it will do that

1158
01:16:29,795 --> 01:16:30,956
and then if it's wrong you just say

1159
01:16:30,956 --> 01:16:35,275
hey not i didn't mean i meant this i meant not that and it takes some back and forth but

1160
01:16:35,275 --> 01:16:41,795
i can't type faster than this thing just shits out code like it will just if you give it a very

1161
01:16:41,795 --> 01:16:45,416
and it's interesting right um in the software world there's this thing called agile that's

1162
01:16:45,416 --> 01:16:49,615
come around in like more recent times where it's like iteration and iteration everything like that

1163
01:16:49,615 --> 01:16:53,295
and then it used to be in the past it was this thing called waterfall where you define all the

1164
01:16:53,295 --> 01:16:58,476
requirements up front and now i'm like waterfall is the way to go because if i give all the very

1165
01:16:58,476 --> 01:17:04,175
specific requirements if i need a database i need a web server i need a user interface and i tell it

1166
01:17:04,175 --> 01:17:08,155
exactly what kind of database i tell it what i need on the web server what kind of data like

1167
01:17:08,155 --> 01:17:14,075
you can outline everything up front and then you tell it to go and it's really good it's really good

1168
01:17:14,075 --> 01:17:18,135
and then you just tweak it right like and that's where you need the engineering skills still is

1169
01:17:18,135 --> 01:17:24,135
like when you see something that's not ideal or like what you didn't intend you got to be you know

1170
01:17:24,135 --> 01:17:28,895
you treat it like an intern you go no do it again it was wrong and it goes you're absolutely right

1171
01:17:28,895 --> 01:17:35,155
like that's claude's phrase is like you're absolutely right so it feels good too i've

1172
01:17:35,155 --> 01:17:40,155
i've really uh uh the primary way i guess i've just more vibe brainstormed uh with ai because

1173
01:17:40,155 --> 01:17:44,035
like if i'm if i'm driving or whatever i'll just put it into like full like voice conversation mode

1174
01:17:44,035 --> 01:17:49,895
like either grok or uh or chat gbt and just like go back and forth and like okay i want to like

1175
01:17:49,895 --> 01:17:54,315
I want to flesh, like flesh this particular idea out, like, or, you know, even like, like,

1176
01:17:54,395 --> 01:17:59,195
you know, just to create like different, like engaging questions for interviews or something

1177
01:17:59,195 --> 01:18:02,535
like, like trying to like think about ways that I haven't, uh, haven't approached certain

1178
01:18:02,535 --> 01:18:05,516
questions within Bitcoin yet, but approach it from the lens of this particular person

1179
01:18:05,516 --> 01:18:07,195
who I'm going to be talking to as this type of background.

1180
01:18:07,416 --> 01:18:10,815
And like, it's honestly so nice to like, from a hands-free perspective, to be able to just

1181
01:18:10,815 --> 01:18:12,876
like, to do that, to have that conversation.

1182
01:18:13,175 --> 01:18:17,335
And like, again, that's, that interface is just getting even better too.

1183
01:18:17,335 --> 01:18:24,556
uh and it like that's the thing the pace of change is just astonishing and like and it's it's pretty

1184
01:18:24,556 --> 01:18:32,115
cool to see that like this just enables the like uh okay it doesn't turn a uh a retarded person

1185
01:18:32,115 --> 01:18:39,496
into like a genius right but it allows a smart competent person to be augmented to an insane

1186
01:18:39,496 --> 01:18:44,295
degree beyond what you would usually be able to accomplish and like i like i mean i think at this

1187
01:18:44,295 --> 01:18:49,355
when it's like pretty much everybody who is you know of above average intelligence is using these

1188
01:18:49,355 --> 01:18:54,315
tools but i feel like that gap is just going to continue widening between like the actual achievers

1189
01:18:54,315 --> 01:19:00,056
and the laggards because this is just an accelerate like this is a this is a cat this is an accelerant

1190
01:19:00,056 --> 01:19:05,016
right like yeah it is making the flames go higher i'm cooking some things i don't want to talk about

1191
01:19:05,016 --> 01:19:11,056
it too soon but like i've got i've got something cooking um that i'm pretty excited about um it

1192
01:19:11,056 --> 01:19:16,815
involves Nostra and eCash. I'll just say that. Okay. Okay. So, and I think it is, I think it is,

1193
01:19:16,895 --> 01:19:23,575
it is a novel use case. So we'll, we'll see, we'll see what the masses think. And it, on top of that,

1194
01:19:23,595 --> 01:19:29,115
I think it also might be like a viable business model. So like, well, again, maybe offline,

1195
01:19:29,115 --> 01:19:34,416
I'll tease it to you. But I, so I started playing around with Grok recently. I wasn't playing around

1196
01:19:34,416 --> 01:19:39,815
with it. And then I had to like, I guess hosted the Bitcoin veteran space on, on Shitter for like

1197
01:19:39,815 --> 01:19:43,456
a week and so like i had the handle and everything and so i was like all right let me try this grok

1198
01:19:43,456 --> 01:19:48,715
thing and it was surprisingly good i started talking with like um you know i if you look at

1199
01:19:48,715 --> 01:19:55,056
my primal reads or like articles on nostr that doesn't have to be in primal um but i i have some

1200
01:19:55,056 --> 01:20:00,215
like conversations with grok where i was like hey you know like let's talk about how all of these

1201
01:20:00,215 --> 01:20:08,315
cellular band baseband radio chips are completely locked permissioned and not open source at all

1202
01:20:08,315 --> 01:20:13,435
And so like, what, what does that, what does that mean for like the usability of our phones?

1203
01:20:13,456 --> 01:20:17,956
Cause there's no reason why this device can't talk to your device directly.

1204
01:20:17,956 --> 01:20:22,655
And it was beautiful to see Jack Dorsey finally, like when he bit chatted that, like the, the

1205
01:20:22,655 --> 01:20:27,235
ability, like unlocking in people's mind that like, I don't need to talk to some server

1206
01:20:27,235 --> 01:20:27,775
over there.

1207
01:20:28,215 --> 01:20:32,435
I can talk to like the person down the hall because our radios and our phone are hyper

1208
01:20:32,435 --> 01:20:35,615
robust, like incredibly robust.

1209
01:20:35,615 --> 01:20:39,435
and there's no reason why they shouldn't just all talk to each other the same thing with like your

1210
01:20:39,435 --> 01:20:44,956
your wi-fi router in your home but there's this like misaligned incentive of all the telecom

1211
01:20:44,956 --> 01:20:50,435
communications people to like not include that they want you to go through their service because

1212
01:20:50,435 --> 01:20:54,235
i mean it comes down to money they want to be able to bill you right like you're using the service

1213
01:20:54,235 --> 01:20:58,695
you're doing whatever but that also comes with like the surveillance and the permission nature

1214
01:20:58,695 --> 01:21:04,976
of it all where the technology that we're at like our phones are capable of so much more except

1215
01:21:04,976 --> 01:21:10,075
they are locked down at the hardware chip level like at the chip level your cell phone radio

1216
01:21:10,075 --> 01:21:15,416
will not operate without like some proprietary like it's a completely proprietary it's like

1217
01:21:15,416 --> 01:21:20,595
broadcom and qualcomm are these like companies that have it completely locked down if we could

1218
01:21:20,595 --> 01:21:25,476
liberate that and i think bit chat is like one illustration of like hey look at this cool thing

1219
01:21:25,476 --> 01:21:31,175
you do with your phone where you don't need the internet um like take that even more steps further

1220
01:21:31,175 --> 01:21:37,815
like unlock these chips for for use um but yeah we'll see what happens the fcc kind of it's weird

1221
01:21:37,815 --> 01:21:44,675
like the way that radio frequency bands work in the united states is you actually lease space so

1222
01:21:44,675 --> 01:21:51,516
like a visible spectrum of light right and then like radio frequency and then the fcc has a

1223
01:21:51,516 --> 01:21:55,315
controlling mechanism where it's like okay you sell from provider get this one little sliver here

1224
01:21:55,315 --> 01:21:59,235
where you can run this service and like all these other things and they like chop it all up and it's

1225
01:21:59,235 --> 01:22:04,916
all for deconfliction but we're at a point with technology where our phones like there's radio

1226
01:22:04,916 --> 01:22:11,056
waves all around us all the time right like our phones can decipher that and kind of this thing

1227
01:22:11,056 --> 01:22:14,175
called beam forming where you can take like multiple antennas and like have a directional

1228
01:22:14,175 --> 01:22:20,376
very like projected beam formed antenna setup um to cut through noise interference and all kinds of

1229
01:22:20,376 --> 01:22:25,496
other stuff like that all exists and is it's practical to apply uh it's just we don't have

1230
01:22:25,496 --> 01:22:29,675
the incentives to do it yet at these massive companies that make these chips and it's hard

1231
01:22:29,675 --> 01:22:34,255
because it's a physical thing right you have to manufacture the radio chips in a specific way the

1232
01:22:34,255 --> 01:22:39,535
same way these bit axes like the chip in here is still proprietary to bitmain that makes it

1233
01:22:39,535 --> 01:22:44,275
we just have really smart guys that reverse engineered the entire thing uh scott 9000 by

1234
01:22:44,275 --> 01:22:49,335
way shout out legend um like literally like hooking things up to the pins of the chip to figure out

1235
01:22:49,335 --> 01:22:54,935
how it works to like reverse engineer this thing um and and now we have a bit x and we're getting

1236
01:22:54,935 --> 01:23:01,595
more so it's it's you know uh i'm always so grateful for open source devs just hacking

1237
01:23:01,595 --> 01:23:06,715
just just hacking away it's a beautiful thing but to uh to your point about uh dorsey's bit chat

1238
01:23:06,715 --> 01:23:11,935
it's uh carl and i we're you know we're uh we have our own little bit chat um where we

1239
01:23:11,935 --> 01:23:17,016
bit chat each other uh but uh you know because we're not uh we're not around a lot of other

1240
01:23:17,016 --> 01:23:22,115
people who are using this so we have we have a household bit chat but it it's incredible to see

1241
01:23:22,115 --> 01:23:29,255
And to your point as well about like the Wi-Fi side, like, yeah, like Bluetooth is like one way to do this, but obviously like there are, you can do this over Wi-Fi as well.

1242
01:23:29,255 --> 01:23:33,675
Like there's no reason that you need to be going through, like going through these providers.

1243
01:23:33,675 --> 01:23:38,695
Like you can have peer-to-peer communications with what already exists with the tech that's already right here.

1244
01:23:38,956 --> 01:23:41,996
And I think that's just something that's been like kind of hidden almost from people.

1245
01:23:41,996 --> 01:23:58,175
Obviously, the whole reason that a lot of these trusted intermediaries are there, or maybe not the reason they're there, but because they are there, they are also tapped on by the government all the time.

1246
01:23:58,575 --> 01:24:02,835
And that is a channel through which you can be surveilled.

1247
01:24:03,395 --> 01:24:07,275
But when you actually go peer-to-peer and it's encrypted, you can't be.

1248
01:24:07,275 --> 01:24:22,575
And that I think is really terrifying to the powers that be not just in the U.S., but like across the world. Like it's a really powerful thing to be able to send messages that, you know, can't be intercepted or if they are intercepted, can't be can't be decrypted.

1249
01:24:22,575 --> 01:24:28,456
like that is a that is a beautiful piece of freedom tech and people should have that like

1250
01:24:28,456 --> 01:24:33,615
that should be the norm like the norm the norm should be privacy but we've been kind of uh

1251
01:24:33,615 --> 01:24:37,575
psyoped into thinking that like you know well why why do you need privacy if you have nothing to

1252
01:24:37,575 --> 01:24:43,535
hide which is just the most like such a damaging people that say that ask them if they shit with

1253
01:24:43,535 --> 01:24:49,735
the door open yeah oh yeah it's like do you take a dump with the door open exactly go ahead i'll

1254
01:24:49,735 --> 01:24:50,675
I'll watch you poop right now.

1255
01:24:50,835 --> 01:24:51,175
Go ahead.

1256
01:24:52,315 --> 01:24:53,135
What are you scared of?

1257
01:24:53,135 --> 01:24:55,495
I usually charge, but we can talk about that offline.

1258
01:24:58,135 --> 01:24:59,075
It's amazing, though.

1259
01:24:59,195 --> 01:25:02,855
And just, again, where does it go from here?

1260
01:25:02,855 --> 01:25:07,535
With a lot of these things, either with direct peer-to-peer communications,

1261
01:25:08,596 --> 01:25:13,435
with stuff like with eCash, these very privacy-preserving technologies,

1262
01:25:13,675 --> 01:25:18,655
these different layers, we're kind of at the infancy of a lot of these

1263
01:25:18,655 --> 01:25:23,075
where it's like they're starting to get out like the message is starting to spread but it's like

1264
01:25:23,075 --> 01:25:27,596
it needs to keep spreading a little bit faster because at a certain point you know once you know

1265
01:25:27,596 --> 01:25:34,115
the powers that be finally catch on these are the things that they hate right they hate anything

1266
01:25:34,115 --> 01:25:39,175
that they cannot control so of course they will try to you know co-op these things shut them down

1267
01:25:39,175 --> 01:25:45,376
but like that's the beautiful thing about open source software is it's like go ahead like you

1268
01:25:45,376 --> 01:25:49,596
can try but like it's it's just not going to work like the genie is already out of the bottle

1269
01:25:49,596 --> 01:25:54,695
and that's like that gives me a lot of hope about the future because it's like even though there are

1270
01:25:54,695 --> 01:26:00,695
these problems it's like hey uh we get a little bit of a a little bit of a head start in them and

1271
01:26:00,695 --> 01:26:05,155
that may be all we need yeah i mean i think there's like a satoshi quote of you know like

1272
01:26:05,155 --> 01:26:10,895
it might not be the solution but it will buy some time in the in the war for freedom and and really

1273
01:26:10,895 --> 01:26:16,195
if you look back to like the early cypherpunks and just cryptography in general, like the powers

1274
01:26:16,195 --> 01:26:21,376
that cryptography offer the individual. And if you haven't read Crypto Sovereignty by Eric

1275
01:26:21,376 --> 01:26:25,995
Kaysen, I definitely recommend it. But the power that cryptography offers the individual.

1276
01:26:26,416 --> 01:26:30,476
And cryptography enables not just Bitcoin, right? Bitcoin is just the best money that we found to

1277
01:26:30,476 --> 01:26:35,195
use with cryptography. But cryptography underpins everything we do in our digital modern age.

1278
01:26:35,195 --> 01:26:47,456
and enabling the average person to use cryptography to protect themselves from people that would wish them harm or, you know, ill will to their way of life is a powerful concept.

1279
01:26:47,456 --> 01:26:56,655
And with open source technology and the jet fuel that is Bitcoin, sending all of the idealistic Bitcoiners into the top tier of elite society,

1280
01:26:58,096 --> 01:27:00,815
cryptography is only going to accelerate from here.

1281
01:27:01,135 --> 01:27:04,755
And open source technology is one of the means that we're going to accelerate it.

1282
01:27:05,995 --> 01:27:06,495
Amen to that.

1283
01:27:06,596 --> 01:27:08,596
And that's a perfect note to wrap on.

1284
01:27:09,495 --> 01:27:11,556
Gary, thank you so much for joining me, man.

1285
01:27:11,995 --> 01:27:16,235
Anywhere you want to, anywhere else you want to send people or remind people of a link

1286
01:27:16,235 --> 01:27:18,935
your notes and whatnot, people should go check out Bitcoin Veterans.

1287
01:27:19,655 --> 01:27:20,956
Where else do you want people to go to?

1288
01:27:21,435 --> 01:27:21,615
Yeah.

1289
01:27:21,775 --> 01:27:27,175
So dcbitdev.com, if you're interested in a Socratic seminar talking about Bitcoin and

1290
01:27:27,175 --> 01:27:27,695
technology.

1291
01:27:28,635 --> 01:27:33,495
Virginiafreedom.tech is my website where I sell BitAxes and I sell MeshTastic devices.

1292
01:27:33,495 --> 01:27:38,895
that's like my side hustle so it's low volume but like i'm happy to ship you and proliferate

1293
01:27:38,895 --> 01:27:44,395
freedom tech uh shenandoah bitcoin.club is like the local meetup so if you're passing uh through

1294
01:27:44,395 --> 01:27:49,775
highway 81 we're like one of the last exits in northern actual true northern virginia northern

1295
01:27:49,775 --> 01:27:55,295
shenandoah valley um stop off say hi uh but then specifically bitcoinbetterans.org and if you're

1296
01:27:55,295 --> 01:28:00,255
interested in that summit in november bitcoinbetterans.org slash summit 2025 um you can

1297
01:28:00,255 --> 01:28:06,115
find us on Noster. Bitcoin veterans is on, on, uh, X. I am not on X unless it's like,

1298
01:28:06,175 --> 01:28:09,635
there's some technical post on Bitcoin veterans. Then, you know, it's like, Oh, Gary, Gary picked

1299
01:28:09,635 --> 01:28:14,695
up, you know, his, the phone with X on it and decided to shit post. Um, but that's it. Thank

1300
01:28:14,695 --> 01:28:18,295
you. Thank you for having me, Walker. I'm honored to have met you. And, uh, thank you for having

1301
01:28:18,295 --> 01:28:21,135
this conversation. I look forward to, to doing great things with you in the future.

1302
01:28:21,835 --> 01:28:25,195
The honor is mine, sir. Looking forward to seeing you again in the flesh, hopefully soon.

1303
01:28:25,535 --> 01:28:29,096
Appreciate your time, man. And, uh, yeah, keep, uh, keep building freedom tech.

1304
01:28:30,255 --> 01:28:33,855
peace. I'm going to go ahead and cut this now.

1305
01:28:40,976 --> 01:28:47,976
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin talk episode of the Bitcoin podcast. Remember to subscribe to

1306
01:28:47,976 --> 01:28:52,335
this podcast, wherever you're watching or listening and share it with your friends,

1307
01:28:52,335 --> 01:28:58,416
family, and strangers on the internet. Find me on Noster at primal.net slash Walker and this

1308
01:28:58,416 --> 01:29:06,155
podcast at primal.net slash titcoin on x youtube and rumble just search at walker america and find

1309
01:29:06,155 --> 01:29:12,895
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1310
01:29:12,895 --> 01:29:18,775
to substack.com slash at walker america to get episodes emailed to you and head to bitcoin

1311
01:29:18,775 --> 01:29:27,335
podcast.net for everything else bitcoin is scarce but podcasts are abundant so thank you for spending

1312
01:29:27,335 --> 01:29:34,096
your scarce time listening to The Bitcoin Podcast. Until next time, stay free.