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If we have another bout of high inflation as a result of the straightforward moves remaining closed for the rest of the year, you're going to see 10% inflation before the end of the year.

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And in that event, you see a huge recession.

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In that event, you see everything sell off.

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And then you see the Fed slam rates to zero.

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So the two scenarios going forward for Bitcoin are, he said, we are entering into an era of systematically falling prices, which is something that Fed chair has never said as far as I can recall.

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The strategy has proven they could sell a fat amount of Bitcoin, their biggest sale ever.

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Bitcoin won't care.

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is the bottom in. If the bottom's not in, when is said bottom coming, if ever?

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The reality is, guys, a fixed income product going down in price simply means that the market wants

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a higher yield. That's the flywheel. And now the Ponzi argument is officially dead. Two years from

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now, three years from now, four years from now, when Bitcoin's at $350K, they're going to be awfully silent.

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Joe Consorti, welcome, man.

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We have done, you've been on my, well, rest in peace, my Roxham streams, but you were on

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at least one of those.

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You've been a frequent guest on BitCast as well with the boys, but welcome to the Bitcoin

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podcast.

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Stoked to have you here, man.

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Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Walker.

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Always a blast.

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So happy to be chatting in this.

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slightly different format where we don't have any commercial breaks.

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No commercial breaks whatsoever.

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Even fewer filters than before, which I was never very good at filtering myself anyway.

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Perhaps that's part of the problem.

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But, okay, a bunch of stuff I want to get into with you today.

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You, first of all, for anybody who's not following you, they should be doing so.

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They should be doing it on X and on YouTube.

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We're going to get you on Noster as well.

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We just discussed that off camera.

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So we'll get you over there on the Sovereign Web.

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But you put out fantastic analysis and it's, I think it's really resonating with people.

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You typically do kind of mid-length content.

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You break a lot of stuff down.

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You just had a video yesterday where we were talking about off camera.

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You broke down like five different factors that are influencing Bitcoin and macro.

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And like, it was all like within 10 minutes, super nice, super tight, really approachable.

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Well done on all that.

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I want to expand on some of those things a little bit.

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want to talk about sort of the uh the overall let's say vibe check on the bitcoin uh where

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bitcoin is right now where it's going because i think the big question on everybody's mind

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is is the bottom in if the bottom's not in when is said bottom coming if ever uh is bitcoin dead

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um and then also on sort of the uh the strategy front that was another thing you broke down in

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your video around this bitcoin sale and you pointed out something very interesting about

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a similar sale that they made and what that sort of signified from a cycle perspective last time

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around. So maybe we can just start out like gut check with you on where you are feeling Bitcoin

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is at right now, because I see a lot of bearishness still. I also start, I'm starting to see, I'm,

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I've never, I've never stopped being bullish. So I'm not a good indicator, right? I'm just,

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I'm like, I'm always bullish. So it's not really telling you much. Where are you at? Has your

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sentiments changed? Has your perception of external sentiment changed? Where do you think

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we're at right now? Absolutely. By the way, that was, there's a fly in my room for some reason,

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in my office. I literally saw it. I've got one in here too, so don't worry. I've been trying to get

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this thing for days. Anyway, yeah, so where we are in the Bitcoin cycle, that was hilarious.

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Someone's going to clip that. Basically, there are a couple of things going on here

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that lead me to believe we are in the bottoming range, but maybe not near the bottom. So

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first and foremost like one of the biggest headwinds for bitcoin since february has been

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the war in iran so obviously the war in iran has been raging um the strait of formus has been closed

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as a result of that until mid june when it opened and now there's live fire in the strait again

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we're sinking iran vessels like it's battleship um and as a result of that it threatens the uh

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the strait to close back up so the straight of formus is responsible for transporting

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20% of the world's oil supply. Now, it's quite significant because when you shut the

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straight-up Homoose, you're not just causing a 20% price spike in oil, you're causing a 50% to 80%

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price spike in oil. And you could actually see it. I'll share my screen here. You could see just

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before the war, as tensions were escalating, CLI, which is the WTI crude oil future for the front

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month, started elevating a little bit. The war kicks off. All of a sudden, we go from where we

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were, which was $65 up to $120 thereabout. So it had a 100% price increase as a result of shutting

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off 20% of the supply. And it goes to show just how critical the straight is. Now, obviously,

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it began actually trending down in advance of the straight opening back up. Obviously,

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two reasons for this. Number one, these are futures contracts. So these are a way for

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people who deal in oil in any way, shape or form to hedge themselves. And so it was falling in

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anticipation of the strait opening back up but more importantly um it it began falling as a result

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of other countries um uh dredging up oil more cheaply uh and more efficiently so the united

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states like the the amount of oil fracking that we're doing is extremely high right now

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as a direct result of the strait of hormuz relatively um being being shut now when it

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opened in mid-june um you can see it fell uh basically to pre-war levels where we were prior

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to the war, more or less. And then Trump gets up two days ago like a baller and says on camera,

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for whatever reason, he says, we're going to bomb Iran right now or something like that.

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It was crazy. Like the balls in the sky, right? And so then like lo and behold, unfortunately,

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the price spike from 68 bucks all the way up to 70, over $75, 76 bucks. And we're in the era of

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elevated oil again as the strait now becomes a bit of a war zone. Now, that's not to say now two

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things here. So the reason this was a massive headwind for Bitcoin is because obviously Bitcoin

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and all other assets hate geopolitical uncertainty, even gold, right? The safe haven du jour hates

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uncertainty. At the very least, it hates when, you know, all of a sudden countries begin bombing each

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other. And so number one, it's been a major headwind for Bitcoin as a result of that. But

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number two, and most importantly, and this is why I always encourage people to think in terms of

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second and third order effects rather than what's simply presented in front of them is that when oil

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prices rise obviously oil is an input for basically everything in the global economy not to mention

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right gasoline prices diesel prices but just about everything else too and so when oil spikes you have

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sort of this cascading effect of price increases that ripple throughout the global economy with

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about a four-month lag all throughout the world right and so as a result of that you're only just

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now as of the june print um remember the war started in february uh the straight closed in

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february you're only starting to see elevated inflation now why is that substantial well

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elevated inflation we're above 4.2 for the first time in like four years

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um drives the fed the likelihood of a fed rate hike up and obviously bitcoin doesn't like that

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bitcoin likes easy money when you're in a regime of tightening monetary policy so interest rates

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rising or policy rates rising rather and the balance sheet being reduced, Bitcoin doesn't like

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that. In fact, Bitcoin topped in 2022 right around the time when the Fed began hiking interest rates

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and reducing the balance sheet or at least attempting to. Bitcoin managed to do its massive

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run up from 16K only after the Fed stopped raising rates and it stopped expanding its balance sheet.

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That said, Bitcoin can perform well during tighter monetary regimes. However, now instead of

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continuing to cut, which was the initial plan. That was the initial forecast for this year.

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Now rate hikes are back on the table as a result of elevated inflation. That said,

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there's so many layers to this. And so as a result, Bitcoin sold off.

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The reason I'm actually betting on cuts this year, well, two reasons. I think the strait is

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going to remain open or at the very least, people are still going to find a way to transport their

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vessels through the strait. The reason it opened up in mid-June, and I said that there was a four

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month lag for price inflation. The reason it opened up in mid-June is because the midterms

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are coming up and the Republicans, unfortunately, expending what little goodwill they have with

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their constituents, are at risk of losing. They're at risk of losing the House, losing the Senate,

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all of it. And as a result of that, they need to really pull out all the stops. So one of the

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things that you can try to do is make it so that you have disinflation or falling inflation.

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And so the Strait of Hormuz opening up when it did was no coincidence. And for that same reason,

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I think at the very least, vessels will remain transporting through it.

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The other component is I don't think the Fed is actually going to hike rates.

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And I said this a couple of weeks ago.

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I said this when Kevin Warsh went up there and started talking about how he wanted to bring more accountability back to the Fed.

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And he wanted to, you know, repair the damaged reputation of the Federal Reserve.

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He was saying a whole bunch of stuff about how he was going to do that.

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and rate hike expectations soared.

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I was saying that there's no shot the Fed raises rates

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in any material way because they can't.

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And if they do, it won't actually matter all that much

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because ultimately the inflation that we're feeling now

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is as a result of oil,

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the oil shock that I just described

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and went through the charts on,

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as opposed to like a ton of money printing

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that drew up the inflation.

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So like typically the monetary inflation

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leads to price inflation

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where rates get slammed down to zero,

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the Fed expands its balance sheet by printing money out of thin air, and then money gets lent

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into existence because credit conditions are so loose. So every time consumers go to the bank,

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they're creating new money. This inflation wasn't caused by that. And so therefore,

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it cannot be fixed by raising interest rates and reducing the balance sheet. It was caused by a

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supply shock. So believe it or not, for the viewers watching this live now, and all of you guys know

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this. The Fed doesn't actually control the price of things. It only controls the price of money.

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It sets the rate at which banks can borrow and lend between one another, and in doing so,

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influences the borrowing rates across the economy. When oil spikes in price, and Lynn Alden said this

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as well, the Fed can't do anything about that. They can't control the price of oil. The only

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thing they can do is they have two levers. They have their balance sheet. They have policy rates.

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Neither of those are going to fix an oil spike.

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The only thing that fixes an oil spike is opening the straight.

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That's why you saw it happen.

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And so when a lot of people were seeing price inflation coming at 4.2% in June,

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and then Kevin Warsh get out there and adjust his tie and say,

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we're going to be responsible.

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I said, no, it's not going to happen.

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Because the only thing that's going to happen if you raise interest rates

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is you're going to choke the consumer who's already choking.

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And lo and behold, rate expectations are now coming back down to earth.

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So we now only have less than one rate cut, actually quite insane.

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I thought it was even more than this, but I suppose not.

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Originally, it was three rate cuts for this year, and now it is just one rate cut this year.

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You can see the current target rate for the U.S. Fed funds rate is 3.75%.

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This is the implied rate as of March of next year.

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So over the next seven months, nine months rather, we are only pricing in eight months, excuse me.

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We're only pricing in one rate increase, one 25 basis point rate increase from 3.75% to 4%.

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This used to be like three or four a couple of weeks ago.

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So it's already coming in as a result of these trade of Hormuz opening at the margin,

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oil prices collapsing to where they were.

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I promise all of this is relevant to Bitcoin.

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Now, the reason this is all so significant, right?

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The reason that oil prices collapsing is so significant and why it's still a bit of a risk to Bitcoin.

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is obviously because I mentioned, you know,

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Fed policy rates being set,

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that matters quite a bit for Bitcoin's direction

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and whether or not we are actually close to the bottom.

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If the straight-up for Moose really closes up, right?

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If the sphincter really tightens, as it were,

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that's a very kind way of talking about the Middle East.

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If the sphincter really tightens, as it were,

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then ultimately what's going to happen is

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oil prices may go back to where they were.

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And as a result, that disinflation

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that you would have otherwise experienced

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over the next four or five months with inflation maybe going up to like five five and a half percent

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then coming all the way back down to sub three percent um and then foaming the runway for the

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fed to not do anything at all and obviously assets will love that bitcoin included um

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all of a sudden you have the risk of the fed um needing to cut all right needing to raise rates

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or at the very least the risk of an inflationary recession which we haven't seen since the 70s

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where prices have just risen way too much over the last half decade uh remember we had 9 inflation in 2022 If we have another bout of high inflation as a result of the straightforward moves remaining closed for the rest of the year

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you're gonna see 10% inflation

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before the end of the year.

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And in that event, you see a huge recession.

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In that event, you see everything sell off.

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And then you see the Fed slam rates to zero.

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So the two scenarios going forward for Bitcoin

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are either we just take one more leg down

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for the heck of it into the low 50s

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where there's just a completely insane amount of support,

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such a huge confluence of not just buy orders on the order book, but also a ton of on-chain

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indicators like signaling that's the freaking bargain basement floor. We just take one more

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leg down for the heck of it and chop around until October. Or we have an inflationary recession

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before the year is out. Everything sells off because of that. Bitcoin goes much lower than

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expected. But then on the other side of it, the Fed cuts rates and prints into oblivion to salvage

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the economy and prevent massive deflation. So that's sort of the way I'm viewing the macro

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backdrop going forward. Iran is still the number one concern. But like always keep the back of your

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mind between now and midterms. They need the stock market to go up. They need it to go up and they

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need price inflation to come down. And they're going to do anything they possibly can to do it.

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One other funny thing is like if the straightforward moves doesn't close, I'm betting on stimulus

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checks because even though it's totally counterintuitive, like what else are you going to

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do if price inflation remains where it is. Trump is already talking about like gas stations

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lowering their prices and taking a loss voluntarily, right? So if they're willing to do that,

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if they're willing to subsidize gas stations so that Americans can see lower gas prices so you

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could buy some votes, like nothing's off the table. And so if the straight remains closed,

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I wouldn't rule out stimmy checks. Well, okay. Bunch to unpack there. I love the breakdown.

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Sorry about that. I went for like 15 minutes.

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Like I said, never any apologies for rants, tangents, digressions, or deep dives on this show, Joe.

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So put your saris in a sack.

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Throw them in the river with a bunch of rocks.

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Let them drown.

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I did see that just today I saw that, I forget what they're calling them, like freedom stations or something like that.

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They are rolling out these gas stations that are, and I looked into this just a little bit.

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I haven't gone deep down the rabbit hole, but I looked in.

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Apparently they're privately owned still.

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There's an let me let me find what they're called. It's Freedom Fuel. Freedom Fuel gas stations.

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They're selling at like a 50 percent discount to prevailing market rates, which was interesting to me because I'm pretty sure the typical margin, the typical gross margin for a gas station operator is like maybe 30 cents on the gallon.

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like you know maybe so i don't know how they're basically and trump the administration is claiming

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there are no there's no subsidies being given right now uh i don't know how this could continue

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without some sort of subsidy but okay they're coming there's no subsidy given right now it's

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owned by some private llc i i don't know if people are just doing it for branding and then they're

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trying to mark up the already higher margin items within their store you know they're going to sell

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Snickers bars for 10 bucks a piece or something like that. I'm not sure what the plan is here,

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but it's interesting to see. And I think that that really supports your point.

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Also sort of on the, I want to, I want to take a jump back to the Fed piece there,

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because I think that a lot of people, when Warsh was coming in, the prevailing narrative that I

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never totally bought was that Warsh is actually pretty hawkish, you know, he's pretty, pretty

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hawkish or he's a, he's, what was the, what was the one they heard? Like he's a balance sheet hawk,

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but he's an interest rate dove or, you know, or something or the opposite.

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I forget exactly what it was.

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But I just never quite bought the narrative that Warsh was going to herald this even more hawkish administration at the Fed.

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That just never quite sat right with me.

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And it sounds like you're saying the same sort of thing.

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Like, look, we know he was put in there to do a job.

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Yes, the Fed is, of course, independent.

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It's a public-private institution.

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It would never be influenced by the administration.

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But, of course, I believe that Warsh has breakfast with Besant like every week, which nothing wrong with that.

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You know, I think they're buds.

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But, I mean, it seems like that's just improbable that Warsh is going to herald this very hawkish Fed term here.

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It just doesn't seem like that is going to be palatable.

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And as you said, going into midterms, one of the biggest determining factors as to whether the incumbent party in power, which is already at a little bit of a disadvantage typically going into midterms.

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But what really puts them as a disadvantage is if people think the economy is shit.

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And if people think the economy is shit, they get smoked.

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Like you can look back at this data.

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So, I mean, do you think that, do you think that, Warsh, you talked about one rate hike now being sort of priced in.

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I mean, do you even think we see that?

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Or do you think it ends up being maintain, maintain, maintain, and then, oh, you guys, we got to cut.

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We got to cut.

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We got to cut to save the American economy.

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And we're going to change our – because we've actually started looking at inflation differently.

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We're going to look at trimmed mean PCE or whatever that is.

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Maybe you can explain that one a little bit.

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But what's your read on that?

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Do we actually even see a cut out of Warsh?

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Or excuse me, do we see a hike out of Warsh before he starts inevitably cutting?

257
00:18:12,408 --> 00:18:15,288
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Yeah, I don't think we see any hikes because the only thing hikes will do is hurt the consumer.

289
00:21:41,428 --> 00:21:45,568
And ultimately, at this point in time, the consumer is all that matters.

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The end user is all that matters.

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Every four years, every two years rather, more importantly, every four years.

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but we're coming up on midterms now.

293
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The government pretends to care about you.

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Like what I've begun saying is like,

295
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I've evolved a little bit in my political thinking.

296
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I used to be like, oh, I don't really care.

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And then it's like, oh, both sides hate you.

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And now I've evolved to the reality that like,

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you must play the game or you will get killed.

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One side hates you a little bit less.

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You know, both sides hate you.

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One side hates you a little bit less.

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So vote for the side that hates you a little bit less.

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And so, but ultimately every two years of show,

305
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they pretend to care about you.

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And this is one of those times.

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And so you sort of, I like that you brought up like,

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Warsh and Besant eating breakfast together every week because those guys used to work together

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for Stanley Druckenmiller and for George Soros. And so it's like, you know, George Soros, like on

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the, not on the political front, but on the investment front. But either way, like working

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for Stanley Druckenmiller, working for Soros, breaking the Bank of England, that was just,

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that was just Besant. That wasn't Warsh. But either way, like they know what they're doing

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and they're a good tag team and both of them know it. And so like ultimately Besant's job is to make

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sure that it can fund the U.S. government, but the secondary and perhaps more important job in the

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long run is making sure that you secure U.S. dollar hegemony. And one of the easiest ways to

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ensure that is making sure that the Fed chair that gets elected, the Fed chair that gets nominated

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00:23:00,728 --> 00:23:04,888
rather by the president, is one that will do your bidding, right? We're in a situation now in this

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country where it is like the notion of Fed independence, it's something that everybody

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00:23:11,328 --> 00:23:16,468
already knows is fabricated. It's like it doesn't exist anymore. It really never did, but now the

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00:23:16,468 --> 00:23:21,848
mask has been fully off. And so like, we're not even trying to pretend anymore. Number one,

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that the Fed is an independent institution. But number two, and this is the more important reason

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behind it is because we're at a state in our country now where a debt to GDP ratio is just

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so high. It's the highest it's ever been outside of wartime. The amount of debt that we have to

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roll over at the current interest rate levels is completely obscene. You have the 30 year yield at

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5% still, like you cannot do that for a very long time. And so what you need is basically a new Fed

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treasury accord where the Fed decides to work with the treasury and make it so that policy rates are

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always accommodative of the U.S. Treasury so that yields don't drift too far high and it's much

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00:23:59,288 --> 00:24:04,968
easier to fund the government that way. So why do I say this? And how are they going to accomplish

329
00:24:04,968 --> 00:24:10,108
this? Well, it's quite clear that that is why Trump picked the person he was going to pick. He

330
00:24:10,108 --> 00:24:16,508
said so many times that rates are too high rates are too high too late Powell whatever um whoever

331
00:24:16,508 --> 00:24:20,828
he picked and he picked Warsh was going to cut interest rates and do his bidding it obviously

332
00:24:20,828 --> 00:24:24,248
stands to reason that the person who gets nominated would pretend that they're going to be balanced

333
00:24:24,248 --> 00:24:28,268
you're not going to go in there and then throw a MAGA hat on and do the YMCA dance and say

334
00:24:28,268 --> 00:24:34,728
yeah I'm gonna you know cut rates right now right um you know the thousand year MAGA republic or

335
00:24:34,728 --> 00:24:39,208
whatever right and so it's like obviously you're going to get up there put on your tie and like

336
00:24:39,208 --> 00:24:44,688
Warsh does seem like a pretty balanced dude, but the reality is that like, you know, all of it's an act for the most part.

337
00:24:44,768 --> 00:24:45,968
He is working with Scott Bissend.

338
00:24:46,028 --> 00:24:51,108
It's not even like remotely conspiratorial to suggest it because he's now come out and done two things.

339
00:24:51,208 --> 00:24:57,808
Number one, he is he's sort of foaming the runway to justify rate cuts, even if the inflation data doesn't really necessitate it.

340
00:24:58,028 --> 00:25:02,268
For one, he's talking about using a new measure of inflation called trimmed mean PCE.

341
00:25:02,388 --> 00:25:03,388
And I'm glad that you brought it up.

342
00:25:03,388 --> 00:25:09,848
basically trimmed mean PCE, what it does is it's like a rank order of all of the things,

343
00:25:10,128 --> 00:25:13,968
all of the price increases to the basket of goods that they set over the last month.

344
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And then they strip out all of the edge cases. So all of the stuff that massively inflates and

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00:25:18,628 --> 00:25:22,908
actually impacts your life, they cut it away. So to make it so that they're cutting out the

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00:25:22,908 --> 00:25:27,848
extremes, they can get a more accurate beat on inflation. Even if let's say, for example,

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00:25:27,848 --> 00:25:34,468
gasoline prices go to, you know, 15 bucks a gallon, guess what? In trimmed mean PCE.

348
00:25:35,428 --> 00:25:39,568
And, you know, some might argue, I was on Mark Moss's show yesterday. Some might argue that,

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00:25:39,628 --> 00:25:44,408
you know, whatever did cause gasoline to go to 15 bucks a gallon was transient. It's temporary.

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Chances are a price spike like that will resolve very soon. And so it makes sense to remove the

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00:25:48,748 --> 00:25:53,308
edge case. But regardless, like what if it doesn't? What if gasoline prices remain elevated for a very

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long time and you have persistent you know two percent monthly inflation or something like that on gasoline prices which would translate to a crazy amount of inflation on an annual basis 30 40 percent Trimmed to be in PCE basically what it does is it would remove that entirely

353
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So like the argument is that it makes for a more reliable measure of inflation.

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But the counter, and this is sort of the one that I believe, is it simply makes for a measure of inflation that can say whatever the Fed wants it to say,

355
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to do whatever the Fed wants to do and what the Fed wants to do lines up with what the Treasury needs to do and what the Treasury needs to do is cut rates.

356
00:26:27,496 --> 00:26:32,136
so that's basically all it is so that's the first reason he gave and then the second reason he gave

357
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to sort of foam the runway and lay the groundwork to justify and rationalize rate cuts down the line

358
00:26:36,296 --> 00:26:41,776
is that he said uh ai is going to have a big disinflationary impact uh chances are we are in

359
00:26:41,776 --> 00:26:48,096
he said um like beat for beat this is the exact quote he said we are entering into an era of uh

360
00:26:48,096 --> 00:26:55,436
um systematically falling prices which is something that uh a fed chair has never said as far as i can

361
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recall. But it's also the reason that the Fed has this dual mandate in the first place. The reason

362
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it wants inflation in the first place is because in their mind, in the Keynesian mind, all 70 IQ

363
00:27:07,096 --> 00:27:13,716
points of it, learning disability threshold, by the way, they basically are of the belief that if

364
00:27:13,716 --> 00:27:18,556
prices didn't go up forever at a reasonable pace, then people would stop buying things, which is

365
00:27:18,556 --> 00:27:23,096
like such a stupid thing to think on its surface. Like, let's do a thought exercise, everybody.

366
00:27:23,756 --> 00:27:25,316
Let's say a mother can't breastfeed.

367
00:27:25,476 --> 00:27:29,416
If the price of baby formula is going down, do you think the mother is going to say, oh,

368
00:27:29,436 --> 00:27:33,136
gee, I'll wait until next month to buy the baby formula because if it's going down now,

369
00:27:33,156 --> 00:27:34,276
it's going to keep going down.

370
00:27:34,536 --> 00:27:36,616
So then she just never feeds her baby and the baby dies.

371
00:27:36,616 --> 00:27:37,856
Obviously not.

372
00:27:38,216 --> 00:27:43,016
Beyond a certain point, of course, people will delay their purchasing of some things.

373
00:27:43,656 --> 00:27:46,196
But it's like for mostly everything, no.

374
00:27:46,316 --> 00:27:48,836
If you see prices go down, you're actually going to buy more, right?

375
00:27:49,396 --> 00:27:52,976
Anyway, that's the way that they rationalize inflation.

376
00:27:53,376 --> 00:27:59,756
And that's one of the reasons that, you know, ironically, they're trying to make it seem like inflation is actually lower than it is.

377
00:28:00,436 --> 00:28:06,116
Using trimmed mean PCE and then also justifying rate cuts by saying that AI is going to have a deflationary impact on prices.

378
00:28:06,216 --> 00:28:07,376
I agree with the second point.

379
00:28:07,436 --> 00:28:08,796
I actually do think that that's the case.

380
00:28:09,636 --> 00:28:15,016
Like, you know, just in my own work, like AI has been massively helpful in my day to day.

381
00:28:15,936 --> 00:28:20,396
In my mind, it will have a massive disinflationary and deflationary impact where it will drive

382
00:28:20,396 --> 00:28:22,676
the cost of goods and services and everyday life lower.

383
00:28:22,976 --> 00:28:26,456
But on the other side of that, as I mentioned, Keynesians can't have that.

384
00:28:26,756 --> 00:28:30,436
And so they're going to use it as reason to print a crap ton of money.

385
00:28:30,936 --> 00:28:34,776
So, yeah, that's basically in a nutshell, the sort of the new Fed Treasury accord being

386
00:28:34,776 --> 00:28:35,156
assembled.

387
00:28:35,336 --> 00:28:35,716
Why?

388
00:28:35,776 --> 00:28:37,696
I don't think we're going to see a hike out of Kevin Warsh.

389
00:28:38,516 --> 00:28:42,196
And if anything, we just see rates on hold until a crisis occurs.

390
00:28:42,196 --> 00:28:44,876
And then you see him cut like every other Fed chair does.

391
00:28:45,016 --> 00:28:50,116
Well, the one thing that's always guaranteed is another unexpected crisis, right?

392
00:28:50,236 --> 00:28:55,596
That's the nice thing is that you always know there's going to be another completely unexpected crisis.

393
00:28:55,996 --> 00:29:01,456
And it always requires, you know, some sort of extraordinary measures that seems to be kind of the...

394
00:29:01,456 --> 00:29:03,296
Two weeks to slow the spread, everybody.

395
00:29:03,416 --> 00:29:04,816
Oh, dear Lord.

396
00:29:05,296 --> 00:29:06,656
Yeah, digression.

397
00:29:06,656 --> 00:29:25,016
But I mean, it is just I don't know if it's it's incredible to me that there was never any like admission of, you know what, guys, maybe all of us who were like really freaking out about this and said that, you know, anybody who didn't follow our exact dogma was like the worst person in the world.

398
00:29:25,016 --> 00:29:27,856
maybe we overreacted just like a little bit.

399
00:29:28,136 --> 00:29:29,856
But I don't think that that's possible.

400
00:29:29,856 --> 00:29:32,196
Like, you know, in the modern political climate,

401
00:29:32,256 --> 00:29:37,316
I think it is untenable to admit that you are wrong about something or were wrong.

402
00:29:37,396 --> 00:29:39,556
Because then it's like, well, what if I'm wrong about this other thing?

403
00:29:39,616 --> 00:29:39,976
No, no, no.

404
00:29:39,996 --> 00:29:43,416
Better to shut out those scary thoughts and I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.

405
00:29:43,556 --> 00:29:45,556
Even though it's like communism, right?

406
00:29:45,976 --> 00:29:47,916
It's like you just try it again and again.

407
00:29:48,016 --> 00:29:50,216
There's 100 million plus people dead over the last century.

408
00:29:50,356 --> 00:29:53,516
But you just push those inconvenient facts away.

409
00:29:53,516 --> 00:29:56,236
and you just, we're going to do it this time

410
00:29:56,236 --> 00:29:57,576
because look at how good our new guy,

411
00:29:57,716 --> 00:29:59,136
our new commie is at social media.

412
00:29:59,256 --> 00:30:00,356
So it'll be fine now, guys.

413
00:30:00,376 --> 00:30:00,856
Don't worry.

414
00:30:01,016 --> 00:30:02,056
It's all good.

415
00:30:02,196 --> 00:30:02,656
It's all good.

416
00:30:03,376 --> 00:30:04,796
Yeah, this commie leader,

417
00:30:04,916 --> 00:30:06,796
instead of being Asian or Russian,

418
00:30:06,896 --> 00:30:08,856
he's a Muslim now, everybody, right?

419
00:30:08,956 --> 00:30:12,556
Like, you know, the minute, stupid, silly differences,

420
00:30:12,556 --> 00:30:14,396
like, oh, we threw the word democratic

421
00:30:14,396 --> 00:30:15,476
in front of it this time,

422
00:30:15,556 --> 00:30:17,216
which means, you know, rainbows and sparkles

423
00:30:17,216 --> 00:30:19,676
while we send you to the internment camp, you know?

424
00:30:19,936 --> 00:30:20,876
Yeah, it's like, you know,

425
00:30:20,956 --> 00:30:22,756
that democratic socialism might just lead

426
00:30:22,756 --> 00:30:25,756
to a little more national socialism if they're not careful.

427
00:30:25,756 --> 00:30:27,816
But they probably don't even know what that means.

428
00:30:27,816 --> 00:30:30,936
So it's okay, we can make jokes about it.

429
00:30:30,936 --> 00:30:32,276
They have no idea.

430
00:30:32,276 --> 00:30:34,256
They have no idea that that's,

431
00:30:34,256 --> 00:30:36,056
yeah, they've never heard of national socialism before.

432
00:30:36,056 --> 00:30:38,476
They may use the word Nazi every other day,

433
00:30:38,476 --> 00:30:41,256
but they've never heard of national socialism before.

434
00:30:41,256 --> 00:30:42,616
Books are hard though.

435
00:30:42,616 --> 00:30:44,636
So you have to read them.

436
00:30:44,636 --> 00:30:46,376
Well, actually adult literacy is,

437
00:30:46,376 --> 00:30:49,096
it's only 30% these days.

438
00:30:49,096 --> 00:30:49,936
Is it really?

439
00:30:49,936 --> 00:30:51,816
Not 30%, excuse me, 70%.

440
00:30:51,816 --> 00:30:58,776
30 i have the stat yeah yeah it's still crazy illiteracy is 30 in adults yeah dude that's if

441
00:30:58,776 --> 00:31:03,256
you look out this is we're taking this digression because it's too interesting that first of all

442
00:31:03,256 --> 00:31:08,376
that's like that's just insane right like we we got up to a point where basically everybody was

443
00:31:08,376 --> 00:31:12,776
literate and then now we've just been on a decline and guess what you look at childhood it's worse

444
00:31:12,776 --> 00:31:17,176
oh i know that that's the crazy thing see this is the fundamental problem with democracy like

445
00:31:17,176 --> 00:31:22,216
democracy is kind of like communism in that it sounds really good in theory but then it's like

446
00:31:22,216 --> 00:31:26,936
like well maybe the whole maybe the athenians had like had something had had something right in terms

447
00:31:26,936 --> 00:31:31,096
of how they structured their democracy like you don't just let anyone vote because like some people

448
00:31:31,096 --> 00:31:35,256
are really dumb and shouldn't probably be trusted with these sorts of things but that's the problem

449
00:31:35,256 --> 00:31:42,136
with democracies it's like it doesn't matter if you are a you know 160 iq or if you're a 40 iq

450
00:31:42,136 --> 00:31:46,816
Like your, your vote is still your vote. Like you're, you're all equal in the eyes of the ballot

451
00:31:46,816 --> 00:31:53,136
box. And by the way, those ballot boxes can be stuffed. Uh, but I digress. Um, I want to,

452
00:31:53,196 --> 00:31:58,176
I want to shift gears slightly cause I want to make sure that we get into this. Uh, and this is

453
00:31:58,176 --> 00:32:01,416
another thing that you covered in this video from yesterday and people should go check it out. Uh,

454
00:32:01,416 --> 00:32:05,156
if you want the, the very much TLDR on this show, you should keep listening to this one,

455
00:32:05,196 --> 00:32:09,236
of course, but go check out Joe's channel as well. Joe Consorti on YouTube. Yeah. After this,

456
00:32:09,236 --> 00:32:13,876
to make sure you understood the concepts use it as a quiz for yourself but you were talking about

457
00:32:13,876 --> 00:32:21,076
the strategy sale of a pretty good chunk of bitcoin i've seen a lot of different takes on

458
00:32:21,076 --> 00:32:26,676
this the primary take that i've seen is a lot of like teeth gnashing and saying but you know but he

459
00:32:26,676 --> 00:32:32,596
said never sell your bitcoin and now he's the strategy is selling the bitcoin yeah and it just

460
00:32:32,596 --> 00:32:38,916
like it just feels really like very reductionist and i i i get it but like i don't understand how

461
00:32:38,916 --> 00:32:44,436
that people don't have a concept that like he has a fiduciary duty to his shareholders. Now,

462
00:32:44,496 --> 00:32:47,936
granted, the share price may not have been performing super well lately, but like everything

463
00:32:47,936 --> 00:32:52,996
he does needs to be in service of that, right? It's not in service of your opinion of what you

464
00:32:52,996 --> 00:32:57,096
think he should do. That being said, everybody should, let me clarify this again, because I've

465
00:32:57,096 --> 00:33:02,096
been called an MSTR show a lot recently, because I do own some MSTR. I would never recommend that

466
00:33:02,096 --> 00:33:06,696
anyone else buy anything but Bitcoin. So I will recommend that again. Don't buy anything else but

467
00:33:06,696 --> 00:33:10,096
Bitcoin or do. I don't care what you do with your money, but that's all I'll recommend. Not financial

468
00:33:10,096 --> 00:33:16,476
advice, just monetary advice. Now that we cleared that up, can you unpack what you think is the

469
00:33:16,476 --> 00:33:22,476
biggest misunderstanding around what strategy is doing right now? Yeah, it's a really important

470
00:33:22,476 --> 00:33:27,496
thing to discuss. And look, here's the thing. I don't even own any MSTR. I don't own any STR. See,

471
00:33:27,996 --> 00:33:33,536
I'm in a really high growth phase of life, so I could stomach MSTR. But the thing is, I have a

472
00:33:33,536 --> 00:33:38,196
pretty fat Bitcoin stacking goal that I'm about to hit and I'm not going to buy anything else until

473
00:33:38,196 --> 00:33:43,296
I do. And it's like, you know, and so for me, the reason I don't own any STRC is like, I'm in a

474
00:33:43,296 --> 00:33:48,936
really high growth phase of life. I am not a fixed income person as of right now. I was even talking

475
00:33:48,936 --> 00:33:55,496
to Mark. I just mentioned a moment ago, he's 51, 52. He doesn't even own any STRC. Like even he is

476
00:33:55,496 --> 00:34:00,456
not in the, you know, cashflow phase of his life. And so it's like, but why am I staunchly defending

477
00:34:00,456 --> 00:34:06,956
these instruments well it's like i just am allergic to retarded stuff or in my language um

478
00:34:06,956 --> 00:34:12,436
you know and when people are coming out like really you know prominent bitcoiners who i respect

479
00:34:12,436 --> 00:34:18,056
are coming out and saying things like oh my gosh guys so the arguments vary right some people say

480
00:34:18,056 --> 00:34:23,656
it's either micro strategy or strategy is in a death spiral um which we'll talk about in a moment

481
00:34:23,656 --> 00:34:29,696
why definitionally that is demanded just completely demonstrably false um number two uh they're going

482
00:34:29,696 --> 00:34:33,716
to be a forced seller of Bitcoin, and that's going to create a ton of systemic risk to Bitcoin.

483
00:34:34,156 --> 00:34:38,436
And then number three, they're marketing shit coins at Bitcoiners. So let's attack all three.

484
00:34:39,236 --> 00:34:44,276
Number one, the whole strategies in a death spiral notion. Basically what a death spiral is,

485
00:34:44,316 --> 00:34:48,116
you've had James Lavish on before. If you haven't, you've obviously spoken to him. Most people have

486
00:34:48,116 --> 00:34:53,196
talked to him. Death spiral has been a term in markets for some time. James Lavish is the guy

487
00:34:53,196 --> 00:34:59,136
who sort of introduced it into the Bitcoin macro space lexicon. Basically what it is, is when,

488
00:34:59,136 --> 00:35:01,696
and this is specifically about the United States Treasury,

489
00:35:02,276 --> 00:35:04,376
we have a ton of funding needs.

490
00:35:04,916 --> 00:35:07,016
All of a sudden, when rates are as high as they are,

491
00:35:07,196 --> 00:35:09,496
you have a really big interest expense

492
00:35:09,496 --> 00:35:10,656
on your outstanding debt.

493
00:35:10,916 --> 00:35:12,416
So to finance that, what do you need to do?

494
00:35:12,576 --> 00:35:13,496
You gotta issue more debt.

495
00:35:13,636 --> 00:35:14,236
But then guess what?

496
00:35:14,276 --> 00:35:15,456
With rates staying where they are,

497
00:35:15,536 --> 00:35:16,716
that's an even bigger interest bill.

498
00:35:17,056 --> 00:35:19,856
And so it's an exponentially worsening spiral

499
00:35:19,856 --> 00:35:22,756
where you have to accelerate your debt issuance, right?

500
00:35:22,816 --> 00:35:24,456
And so you're basically eating yourself.

501
00:35:24,456 --> 00:35:26,056
And then the marginal buyer of that debt

502
00:35:26,056 --> 00:35:27,656
becomes the Federal Reserve.

503
00:35:27,656 --> 00:35:30,156
So the debt-debt spiral, that's what it is.

504
00:35:30,936 --> 00:35:32,936
You're basically a snake eating its own tail.

505
00:35:33,296 --> 00:35:35,996
You issue this thing into affinity to find your own obligations, right?

506
00:35:36,776 --> 00:35:41,496
Now, it doesn't make an ounce of sense for the MSTR complex.

507
00:35:42,056 --> 00:35:43,536
Speaking specifically about stretch.

508
00:35:44,236 --> 00:35:48,576
So for one, stretch is a perpetual preferred equity.

509
00:35:48,836 --> 00:35:52,256
Perpetual, keyword, meaning there is no due date.

510
00:35:52,396 --> 00:35:53,516
There is no maturity date.

511
00:35:53,616 --> 00:35:55,396
There is no convert by date, right?

512
00:35:55,636 --> 00:35:57,356
So the debt never comes due.

513
00:35:57,356 --> 00:35:59,616
Number two, it's an equity, so it's not debt, right?

514
00:35:59,896 --> 00:36:03,616
It functions similarly to fixed income in that there is a dividend yield.

515
00:36:04,276 --> 00:36:08,176
Dividend yield, not a rate, but a dividend yield.

516
00:36:08,576 --> 00:36:08,976
And guess what?

517
00:36:08,996 --> 00:36:12,536
Because it's an equity, that dividend yield can be set by the committee.

518
00:36:12,856 --> 00:36:16,016
It can be brought all the way down to zero if they needed to, but they won't need to.

519
00:36:16,116 --> 00:36:17,156
And I'll explain why in a moment.

520
00:36:17,616 --> 00:36:20,856
So because of that, they're not actual obligations that they are entitled to make.

521
00:36:21,136 --> 00:36:25,176
They will continue making them, but God forbid, if anything happened, they could suspend them.

522
00:36:25,176 --> 00:36:32,296
and then most importantly they are perpetual so they run forever right now what has happened over

523
00:36:32,296 --> 00:36:38,276
the last couple of weeks is pretty standard right so strc spent most of its life around 90 bucks

524
00:36:38,276 --> 00:36:42,236
literally most of its life go back and look at the chart if you're one of the death spiral people

525
00:36:42,236 --> 00:36:47,696
most of its life around 90 bucks guess where it is now right around 90 bucks something happened

526
00:36:47,696 --> 00:36:51,036
over the last couple of weeks if you were sleeping if you were in a coma for the last few weeks you

527
00:36:51,036 --> 00:36:55,576
wouldn't know. But to clue you in, basically what happened is as Bitcoin massively crashed,

528
00:36:56,896 --> 00:37:01,876
STRC sold off quite a bit. It sold off from $100 all the way down to $72. Oh my goodness,

529
00:37:01,996 --> 00:37:06,816
it cratered. But for those of you who are not in the know about how fixed income products work,

530
00:37:07,216 --> 00:37:13,456
price and yield are inversely related. When the asset sells off, the yield rises. It is simply

531
00:37:13,456 --> 00:37:18,236
the market telling you they want a higher yield. Now, there are two reasons the market could want

532
00:37:18,236 --> 00:37:22,296
a higher yield. Number one, they think that you are no longer credit worthy and they want to be

533
00:37:22,296 --> 00:37:27,256
compensated for the associated risk with your company. Or number two, the asset that you're

534
00:37:27,256 --> 00:37:33,276
buying using the proceeds from this fixed income instrument is going to have higher forward returns

535
00:37:33,276 --> 00:37:40,096
and they want a higher yield as a result of that. It's number two. The market literally is just

536
00:37:40,096 --> 00:37:44,216
saying, as is the case with any fixed income product, that it wants to be compensated more.

537
00:37:44,296 --> 00:37:47,396
Why does it want to be compensated more? Well, did strategy suddenly get less credit worthy?

538
00:37:47,396 --> 00:37:53,896
no, Bitcoin is down 50% from its high. And so instead of its forward returns being like 25%

539
00:37:53,896 --> 00:37:58,136
a year, 30% a year till the next cycle high, chances are since we're near the bottom,

540
00:37:58,636 --> 00:38:02,436
the forward annualized returns between now and the next cycle high are going to be like 50%.

541
00:38:03,016 --> 00:38:07,536
And so obviously if the fixed income product is going to be used to fund Bitcoin proceeds,

542
00:38:07,536 --> 00:38:10,716
and then Bitcoin will be sold to fund the fixed income product obligations,

543
00:38:11,356 --> 00:38:15,516
you want to be compensated more than 11 and a half percent. So the market sold off to 13%,

544
00:38:15,516 --> 00:38:19,996
Roughly speaking, strategy said, hey, we're going to increase the dividend yield all the way up to 12%.

545
00:38:19,996 --> 00:38:20,696
Boom.

546
00:38:20,936 --> 00:38:23,456
It rises from 72% all the way up to 92%.

547
00:38:23,456 --> 00:38:25,116
The death spiral people go silent.

548
00:38:25,256 --> 00:38:25,816
Like it was crazy.

549
00:38:25,916 --> 00:38:31,496
I went on a crypto show just to be like the MSTR person.

550
00:38:31,656 --> 00:38:31,976
How dare you?

551
00:38:32,396 --> 00:38:32,936
Yeah, right?

552
00:38:33,016 --> 00:38:33,536
Oh, my gosh.

553
00:38:33,716 --> 00:38:34,476
Cross-pollinating.

554
00:38:35,216 --> 00:38:35,976
No, I think that's good.

555
00:38:36,156 --> 00:38:38,656
Because there are a lot of people over there who need to know this stuff.

556
00:38:38,776 --> 00:38:44,596
And the guy that I was like debating with, he just – he ignored all of the stuff that I was saying.

557
00:38:44,596 --> 00:38:46,636
And like literally within four days,

558
00:38:46,636 --> 00:38:48,496
stretch was all the way back up to $90.

559
00:38:48,496 --> 00:38:50,636
And on the show, he made ridiculous claims like,

560
00:38:51,436 --> 00:38:53,436
stretch is never going to go back above 90.

561
00:38:53,596 --> 00:38:55,536
It's never going to come close to 100.

562
00:38:55,536 --> 00:38:56,836
This thing is going to zero.

563
00:38:56,836 --> 00:39:12,344
Strategy is going to sell all of their Bitcoin When strategy sells their Bitcoin the market going to tank Well the reality is guys a fixed income product going down in price simply means that the market wants a higher yield Chances are in the case of a company that literally has an 11 leverage ratio meaning

564
00:39:12,344 --> 00:39:16,244
they have virtually no debt, they have a better leverage ratio than most of the companies

565
00:39:16,244 --> 00:39:19,044
in the S&P 500 right now, for your information, right?

566
00:39:19,064 --> 00:39:21,564
So the risk of a debt spiral, virtually non-existent.

567
00:39:21,664 --> 00:39:26,584
Anyway, all it means is that they want a higher yield.

568
00:39:26,584 --> 00:39:31,944
Not because the company is at risk, but in this case, because of their balance sheet, because the asset has higher forward returns.

569
00:39:32,184 --> 00:39:32,864
So that's number one.

570
00:39:33,064 --> 00:39:35,224
Number two, strategy is going to be a forced seller of Bitcoin.

571
00:39:35,364 --> 00:39:38,804
I explained why they can't be a forced seller of Bitcoin because of the preferreds.

572
00:39:38,844 --> 00:39:39,724
They're not technically debt.

573
00:39:40,064 --> 00:39:41,824
Bitcoin isn't collateralizing those products.

574
00:39:42,284 --> 00:39:44,044
But let's talk about their other debt.

575
00:39:44,084 --> 00:39:44,964
What other debt do they have?

576
00:39:45,064 --> 00:39:53,364
Well, interestingly enough, I do actually happen to have, I think I can pull it up here, MSTR Corp.

577
00:39:53,424 --> 00:39:53,964
Okay, perfect.

578
00:39:54,264 --> 00:39:55,924
We can look at all of their bonds right now.

579
00:39:55,924 --> 00:40:16,604
And we can actually go ahead and see if any of them are at material risk of actually, oh my goodness, how do I pull up the bond screen? This is not good. Hold on. MSTR, I'm a fake fan. MSTR Corp. Okay, perfect. Let's pull up the bond screen. And let's see if they're at risk of a death spiral, guys, where they're forced to sell their Bitcoin. Let's take a look.

580
00:40:16,604 --> 00:40:22,084
Okay, let's look at the interest rate on all of these crazy, crazy outstanding bonds.

581
00:40:22,164 --> 00:40:24,284
They're going to make them forced to sell Bitcoin.

582
00:40:25,224 --> 00:40:28,484
0.625%, 0%.

583
00:40:28,484 --> 00:40:33,604
That one got paid off 0%, 0.625%, 0.875%, 2.25%.

584
00:40:34,284 --> 00:40:39,324
Okay, well, even though they're super low, they literally paid off all of their super high yield debt.

585
00:40:39,924 --> 00:40:41,624
Well, maybe they're due like tomorrow.

586
00:40:42,004 --> 00:40:43,644
So then they'll be forced to sell Bitcoin, guys.

587
00:40:44,544 --> 00:40:45,484
When's the nearest one?

588
00:40:45,484 --> 00:40:49,944
And oh, it's not until September of 2028, 26 months from now.

589
00:40:50,504 --> 00:40:50,884
Interesting.

590
00:40:51,384 --> 00:40:53,024
So basically it boils down to this.

591
00:40:53,524 --> 00:40:56,784
Strategy only has about an 8% leverage ratio,

592
00:40:56,884 --> 00:40:59,204
meaning the convertible debt, the debt outstanding,

593
00:40:59,324 --> 00:41:01,804
which is all convertible, it's all on screen right now,

594
00:41:02,244 --> 00:41:06,184
is about 8% of their total assets on hand,

595
00:41:06,244 --> 00:41:07,004
the value of their Bitcoin.

596
00:41:07,644 --> 00:41:11,984
So in order for strategy to be forced to sell Bitcoin,

597
00:41:11,984 --> 00:41:12,884
you can see right here,

598
00:41:12,884 --> 00:41:19,044
the interest rate on their nearest maturing debt is 0.65%.

599
00:41:19,044 --> 00:41:20,644
It's not due for 26 months.

600
00:41:21,164 --> 00:41:24,524
And there's only about $1 billion outstanding.

601
00:41:25,024 --> 00:41:27,044
They have a $60 billion balance sheet with the Bitcoin.

602
00:41:27,184 --> 00:41:31,764
So basically what would need to happen is Bitcoin would need to fall by like 94%

603
00:41:31,764 --> 00:41:33,484
and then stay there for 26 months.

604
00:41:33,624 --> 00:41:37,684
At the same time, strategy would need to have already burned through this entire cash reserve.

605
00:41:37,684 --> 00:41:45,444
But at the same time, they would have not, basically, they would have not been able to raise a single dollar from capital markets between now and then.

606
00:41:45,604 --> 00:41:49,344
Then and only then would strategy be forced to sell any of their Bitcoin.

607
00:41:50,944 --> 00:41:52,964
Obviously, that's not going to happen, right?

608
00:41:53,064 --> 00:41:57,744
Now you can kind of see how ridiculous this forced selling of Bitcoin thing is concerned.

609
00:41:58,064 --> 00:41:58,804
So that's number two.

610
00:41:59,544 --> 00:42:02,484
And then number three is that they pose systemic risk to Bitcoin.

611
00:42:02,484 --> 00:42:07,204
And again, for those of you watching at home thinking I'm like some bag holder who's trying to rationalize all this stuff.

612
00:42:07,204 --> 00:42:14,284
I don't own any MSTR. I don't own any strategy. I've never told people to buy or STRC. I've never

613
00:42:14,284 --> 00:42:19,444
told anyone to buy those things. But guess what? Right. Like I'm still followed on X by Saylor

614
00:42:19,444 --> 00:42:23,704
and he's liked posts where I say I don't own any of it. And I just got followed by Fong after he

615
00:42:23,704 --> 00:42:27,864
liked a post where I said, I don't own any of it. So the question becomes, why on earth is all this

616
00:42:27,864 --> 00:42:32,744
happening? Why are you so staunchly defending them? Because it is such a stupid notion to say

617
00:42:32,744 --> 00:42:37,124
that a company with an 8% leverage ratio where all of their debt is not actually collateralized by

618
00:42:37,124 --> 00:42:42,124
the Bitcoin and their only existing obligations or obligations they could shut off if they wanted

619
00:42:42,124 --> 00:42:46,584
to. Oh, and by the way, there's still only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the value

620
00:42:46,584 --> 00:42:50,504
of their Bitcoin. To say that they're at risk of selling their Bitcoin or more importantly,

621
00:42:50,624 --> 00:42:53,644
they're at a systemic risk of Bitcoin is ridiculous, right? I'm in the business of

622
00:42:53,644 --> 00:42:58,364
telling my viewers and telling anybody, right, the viewers of this show, like the truth. I want

623
00:42:58,364 --> 00:43:02,824
to equip you with the most accurate information. I don't want to lie to you. And so like anybody

624
00:43:02,824 --> 00:43:07,704
who's been telling you, like, make note, at least mental note of the people who've been saying,

625
00:43:07,864 --> 00:43:12,144
this is a debt spiral. It's like two years from now, three years from now, four years from now,

626
00:43:12,184 --> 00:43:16,424
and Bitcoin's at 350K, they're going to be awfully silent. And then the third thing is

627
00:43:16,424 --> 00:43:22,784
there are systemic risks to Bitcoin. Well, I just pointed out how they won't be forced to sell

628
00:43:22,784 --> 00:43:26,964
Bitcoin. But what if they do sell Bitcoin? What happens when they choose to sell Bitcoin? Well,

629
00:43:26,964 --> 00:43:34,104
they literally unloaded a clip of 3588 btc on monday or over the course of the prior week

630
00:43:34,104 --> 00:43:40,384
whatever but the point is they announced that on monday and the market went up the market didn't

631
00:43:40,384 --> 00:43:46,784
bitcoin didn't go to zero so clearly bitcoin isn't prop propped up by strategy even that 3588

632
00:43:46,784 --> 00:43:51,244
bitcoin sale which they did over the course of a week and a half is still only like a fraction

633
00:43:51,244 --> 00:43:53,524
of 1% of Bitcoin's daily volume.

634
00:43:54,024 --> 00:43:56,264
So you guys, strategy has proven

635
00:43:56,264 --> 00:43:57,924
they could sell a fat amount of Bitcoin,

636
00:43:58,024 --> 00:43:58,944
their biggest sale ever,

637
00:43:59,064 --> 00:44:00,144
and Bitcoin will actually go out.

638
00:44:00,244 --> 00:44:01,304
Like Bitcoin won't care.

639
00:44:01,864 --> 00:44:04,524
And I just explained in no uncertain terms

640
00:44:04,524 --> 00:44:07,164
why STRC is not a Ponzi scheme,

641
00:44:07,224 --> 00:44:07,904
why it's not going to zero

642
00:44:07,904 --> 00:44:10,784
and why strategy is not at risk of a debt spiral.

643
00:44:10,864 --> 00:44:12,424
They won't become a forced liquidator of Bitcoin.

644
00:44:12,804 --> 00:44:13,524
It's ridiculous.

645
00:44:14,284 --> 00:44:15,664
Make a mental note of anybody

646
00:44:15,664 --> 00:44:17,704
who's chimping out over this thing.

647
00:44:18,444 --> 00:44:21,004
Do you think, and great breakdown

648
00:44:21,004 --> 00:44:26,604
first of all do you think the sort of i know what what fong and i think sailor has said as well

649
00:44:26,604 --> 00:44:32,124
talking about inoculating the market against the idea of strategy selling i mean that that thesis

650
00:44:32,124 --> 00:44:39,064
seems to be playing out that's the fact that we didn't see a massive sell-off on the news that

651
00:44:39,064 --> 00:44:45,424
strategy sold a fat stack seems to be indicative of the fact that the market is at least somewhat

652
00:44:45,424 --> 00:44:51,844
inoculated to this like the market seems to have responded positively to it which goes against again

653
00:44:51,844 --> 00:44:57,664
everybody every doom and gloomers predictions that well when strategy sells it's all over man

654
00:44:57,664 --> 00:45:04,084
like and it just it's like that's just that's just not reality right yeah so it's like it's funny

655
00:45:04,084 --> 00:45:08,104
like we use the word inoculate it's probably the only time in bitcoin circles you'll hear us use

656
00:45:08,104 --> 00:45:14,604
the word inoculate positive anyway the the the whole notion of inoculating the market um basically

657
00:45:14,604 --> 00:45:19,484
came around early this year. One of the major things, and it has to do with something that's

658
00:45:19,484 --> 00:45:25,484
much bigger than strategy. One of the major things that has been sort of a hang up as far

659
00:45:25,484 --> 00:45:30,024
as strategy is concerned is they're included in the NASDAQ because the NASDAQ adds big companies

660
00:45:30,024 --> 00:45:35,004
in the US automatically. The biggest 2,000 companies get thrown in there, right? Automatically

661
00:45:35,004 --> 00:45:41,044
based on market cap. That's it. But the S&P 500 is a little bit different. Even though it tracks

662
00:45:41,044 --> 00:45:45,944
the 500 largest companies in the United States based on market cap, it can actually choose

663
00:45:45,944 --> 00:45:51,044
whether or not to exclude companies at just at their win. There's a committee, not a lot of people

664
00:45:51,044 --> 00:45:56,644
know this, called the S&P Global Committee. And they decided to not include strategy in the S&P

665
00:45:56,644 --> 00:46:01,784
500 despite being big enough to do it and profitable enough to do it because of the FASB

666
00:46:01,784 --> 00:46:05,444
accounting rule change last year, making it so that they can mark their Bitcoin unrealized gains

667
00:46:05,444 --> 00:46:09,544
as profit. So then why weren't they included? Well, there were three reasons that the S&P Global

668
00:46:09,544 --> 00:46:14,344
Committee gave for not including them in the S&P 500 and also assigning them a B minus credit

669
00:46:14,344 --> 00:46:19,424
rating, making it so that a lot of the funds that might want to hold something like STRC cannot hold

670
00:46:19,424 --> 00:46:23,144
it. Now, this is extremely significant for Bitcoin. Again, this isn't about strategy.

671
00:46:23,504 --> 00:46:30,124
This is about a one quadrillion dollar global asset market having indirect proxy access to

672
00:46:30,124 --> 00:46:35,704
Bitcoin via this company. The three reasons that S&P Global gave for giving them a B minus credit

673
00:46:35,704 --> 00:46:40,364
rating despite having 60 billion dollars of bitcoin in the balance sheet is threefold i think

674
00:46:40,364 --> 00:46:44,684
i just said the three reasons is threefold i gotta drink some more caffeine anyway reason number one

675
00:46:44,684 --> 00:46:50,084
is that uh the s&p global committee said that they don't have a strong u.s dollar reserve their

676
00:46:50,084 --> 00:46:55,524
reserve is only bitcoin they want to see at least 24 months of dividend obligations in a u.s dollar

677
00:46:55,524 --> 00:47:03,304
reserve number two they said that they have too much of an over-reliance um on uh convertible debt

678
00:47:03,304 --> 00:47:11,384
And number three, this is the biggest point, they have a reluctance to sell Bitcoin and specifically to sell Bitcoin to fund a dividend.

679
00:47:12,384 --> 00:47:20,604
So basically, the moment S&P Global put out that report, Saylor and Fong hit the podcast circuit and started talking about, hey, we're probably going to sell some Bitcoin.

680
00:47:20,844 --> 00:47:21,984
We're probably going to sell some Bitcoin.

681
00:47:22,184 --> 00:47:24,544
We're probably going to sell some Bitcoin for literally three months straight.

682
00:47:24,784 --> 00:47:26,684
And they said, we're going to do this to inoculate the market.

683
00:47:26,744 --> 00:47:27,224
What does that mean?

684
00:47:27,224 --> 00:47:34,704
inoculating the market simply means that we're going to um slowly but well the idea of a vaccine

685
00:47:34,704 --> 00:47:38,524
in principle not in practice unfortunately put a bunch of aluminum and other stuff in it but

686
00:47:38,524 --> 00:47:43,064
in principle the idea of a vaccine is they give you a little bit of the bad stuff so that your

687
00:47:43,064 --> 00:47:46,924
body becomes used to it and it doesn't have an adverse reaction down the line now this is great

688
00:47:46,924 --> 00:47:53,864
for stuff like polio and other stuff um anyway i want to talk about vaccines now but i know we'll

689
00:47:53,864 --> 00:47:54,324
We'll get into it.

690
00:47:54,324 --> 00:47:54,824
We'll get into it.

691
00:47:54,824 --> 00:47:55,284
We'll get into it, yeah.

692
00:47:55,604 --> 00:47:56,124
Maybe another time.

693
00:47:56,644 --> 00:47:58,244
But that's the idea of the vaccine.

694
00:47:58,364 --> 00:48:03,484
And so by inoculating the market, what seller means is sell a little bit of Bitcoin so that

695
00:48:03,484 --> 00:48:09,264
the market can obviously have a crazy reaction and scream and go, but then get used to the

696
00:48:09,264 --> 00:48:11,744
fact that, okay, strategy sells Bitcoin now, right?

697
00:48:11,844 --> 00:48:16,004
You pivot from never sell your Bitcoin to, okay, this entity is going to sell its Bitcoin.

698
00:48:16,264 --> 00:48:19,144
And then all of a sudden you've made it to that one day down the line when you choose

699
00:48:19,144 --> 00:48:22,624
to sell a bunch of it to fund your dividends, the market doesn't have an adverse reaction.

700
00:48:23,504 --> 00:48:26,384
But all of this is to get included in the S&P 500.

701
00:48:26,524 --> 00:48:27,124
So what did they do?

702
00:48:27,184 --> 00:48:29,124
They immediately built a US dollar reserve.

703
00:48:29,244 --> 00:48:31,404
Then they retired all of their convertible debt.

704
00:48:31,524 --> 00:48:33,164
That is non-zero rate.

705
00:48:33,264 --> 00:48:35,384
I just showed the highest rate,

706
00:48:35,484 --> 00:48:37,944
or actually they have one that's 2.25%, whatever,

707
00:48:38,044 --> 00:48:39,264
but it's due in 2032

708
00:48:39,264 --> 00:48:41,584
and there's only $800 million worth of it.

709
00:48:41,944 --> 00:48:44,264
They retired all of their high yield convertible debts.

710
00:48:44,264 --> 00:48:45,484
They address point number two.

711
00:48:46,404 --> 00:48:47,044
Point number three,

712
00:48:47,864 --> 00:48:49,164
they have a reluctance to sell their Bitcoin.

713
00:48:49,304 --> 00:48:50,144
What did they decide to do?

714
00:48:50,144 --> 00:48:55,784
So early June, early mid-June, I think it was early June, they decided to sell 32 BTC.

715
00:48:56,684 --> 00:48:57,984
The market went crazy.

716
00:48:58,124 --> 00:48:59,984
I don't think it sold off because of Saylor.

717
00:49:00,084 --> 00:49:03,664
But regardless, the price tanked like 6% or 7% over the next week.

718
00:49:03,964 --> 00:49:04,984
Oh my gosh, mania.

719
00:49:05,124 --> 00:49:10,324
They sold 32 Bitcoin, which is literally like, you know, three seconds worth of volume for Bitcoin.

720
00:49:10,704 --> 00:49:11,844
The market went crazy.

721
00:49:12,324 --> 00:49:15,784
And then after all of the dust settled, after everybody stopped screaming,

722
00:49:15,784 --> 00:49:18,884
and then as a result of that, MSTR collapsed in price.

723
00:49:19,024 --> 00:49:20,144
STRC collapsed in price.

724
00:49:20,524 --> 00:49:23,224
Everyone, every strategy, doom and gloomer,

725
00:49:23,304 --> 00:49:24,644
went out and adjusted their bow ties

726
00:49:24,644 --> 00:49:25,864
and tipped their fedora and said,

727
00:49:25,904 --> 00:49:26,724
I told you so, everybody.

728
00:49:27,104 --> 00:49:29,564
And then all of a sudden, everything's fine.

729
00:49:29,724 --> 00:49:31,044
A couple of weeks later, right?

730
00:49:31,264 --> 00:49:32,904
STRC recovers because they announced

731
00:49:32,904 --> 00:49:33,944
they're increasing the yield.

732
00:49:34,704 --> 00:49:36,604
MSTR recovers, Bitcoin goes back up.

733
00:49:37,064 --> 00:49:38,364
And then what does strategy announce?

734
00:49:38,524 --> 00:49:40,964
After it has formally inoculated the market

735
00:49:40,964 --> 00:49:42,304
and they've allowed the market

736
00:49:42,304 --> 00:49:43,344
to have their temper tantrum,

737
00:49:43,784 --> 00:49:46,504
they sell 3,500 Bitcoin, almost 3,600,

738
00:49:46,944 --> 00:49:48,204
and the market closes green.

739
00:49:48,884 --> 00:49:50,324
So that's basically what happened here.

740
00:49:50,444 --> 00:49:53,564
All of this is very intentional in order to do two things.

741
00:49:53,624 --> 00:49:55,284
Number one, and this is why it's so important to Bitcoin,

742
00:49:55,664 --> 00:49:59,204
to show to the S&P Global Committee that they've addressed all three of these concerns

743
00:49:59,204 --> 00:50:01,964
and increased the likelihood that they're included in the S&P 500

744
00:50:01,964 --> 00:50:06,204
and that strategy has a higher credit rating so that more people can own SDRC.

745
00:50:06,744 --> 00:50:11,764
But more importantly, right, and obviously that's going to open up strategy

746
00:50:11,764 --> 00:50:14,064
if they do get included and if they do get a better credit rating,

747
00:50:14,484 --> 00:50:17,184
that opens the floodgates as far as capital is concerned.

748
00:50:17,184 --> 00:50:30,024
Imagine every retirement account that allocates to an S&P 500 index fund, which is a lot, passively allocating to strategy every two weeks, therein giving them the funding needed to buy more Bitcoin.

749
00:50:30,124 --> 00:50:32,144
So they are indirectly buying Bitcoin.

750
00:50:33,184 --> 00:50:35,784
So like every American retirement account funding Bitcoin, crazy thing number one.

751
00:50:35,784 --> 00:50:54,384
Crazy thing number two, SCRC being the beneficiary of a higher credit rating from S&P Global would mean that all of a sudden, instead of mostly retail investors holding this thing, all of a sudden, like massive fixed income desks, family offices, institutional funds that have fixed income mandates.

752
00:50:54,704 --> 00:50:58,004
Fixed income is a $300 trillion market, by the way, more than double the size of the equity market.

753
00:50:58,384 --> 00:50:59,884
All of a sudden, they could buy SCRC.

754
00:51:00,424 --> 00:51:06,244
They could buy any other debt instrument or preferred stock instrument that Strategy issues down the line.

755
00:51:06,564 --> 00:51:10,684
And all of a sudden, Bitcoin has its first major break into the global bond market.

756
00:51:11,644 --> 00:51:13,204
That's why Strategy did what it did.

757
00:51:13,544 --> 00:51:16,944
And more importantly, this represents an evolution in their business model.

758
00:51:17,004 --> 00:51:18,324
And this is something that I've been discussing.

759
00:51:18,784 --> 00:51:22,284
I've said for a very long time, I want Strategy to sell their Bitcoin.

760
00:51:22,404 --> 00:51:22,864
Why is that?

761
00:51:22,864 --> 00:51:25,944
Well, because of the business model I just explained a moment ago.

762
00:51:25,944 --> 00:51:28,224
once the Bitcoin ETFs came out,

763
00:51:28,564 --> 00:51:30,684
MSTR sort of became relatively irrelevant

764
00:51:30,684 --> 00:51:31,984
for a lot of equity investors.

765
00:51:32,524 --> 00:51:34,164
They originally were kind of like

766
00:51:34,164 --> 00:51:35,984
a levered closed-end fund for Bitcoin,

767
00:51:36,144 --> 00:51:37,784
but then the spice is kind of gone

768
00:51:37,784 --> 00:51:39,524
once you have like 20 Bitcoin ETFs

769
00:51:39,524 --> 00:51:40,124
that you could buy instead.

770
00:51:40,244 --> 00:51:41,884
So they needed a new funding mechanism.

771
00:51:42,044 --> 00:51:43,924
That funding mechanism became STRC.

772
00:51:44,064 --> 00:51:45,004
There are the preferred equities

773
00:51:45,004 --> 00:51:46,864
to tap into the fixed income market instead.

774
00:51:48,024 --> 00:51:50,044
STRC specifically is now going to be offering

775
00:51:50,044 --> 00:51:51,224
a 12% yield, right?

776
00:51:51,264 --> 00:51:53,444
So your funding source has a 12% yield.

777
00:51:53,544 --> 00:51:55,704
The asset you're buying on a forward-looking basis

778
00:51:55,704 --> 00:51:59,724
has anywhere between a 30 and a 45% compound annual growth rate.

779
00:51:59,984 --> 00:52:04,944
You use this to buy this, and then you sell enough of this to fund this, right?

780
00:52:04,992 --> 00:52:24,712
And then you keep the spread. That is a carry trade. That is financial engineering. That is what every hedge fund globally does. They're pivoting from just buying and holding Bitcoin and doing nothing to becoming an active Bitcoin capital manager that is creating pseudo Bitcoin backed bonds for a $300 trillion market while a ton of the Bitcoin OGs cry and get upset for some reason.

781
00:52:24,712 --> 00:52:29,692
despite this being a massive development as far as Bitcoin is concerned

782
00:52:29,692 --> 00:52:31,052
from a structured finance perspective.

783
00:52:32,052 --> 00:52:34,392
And look, one of the main,

784
00:52:34,432 --> 00:52:37,152
and so that's basically the TLDR of why they did what they did

785
00:52:37,152 --> 00:52:38,652
and why it's so important.

786
00:52:39,552 --> 00:52:42,112
And I understand, like, a lot of people,

787
00:52:42,112 --> 00:52:45,052
the other point of contention I forgot to bring up

788
00:52:45,052 --> 00:52:49,872
is that many people will say, well, MSTR is not a Bitcoin alternative.

789
00:52:50,692 --> 00:52:51,212
I know.

790
00:52:51,652 --> 00:52:54,532
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows.

791
00:52:54,712 --> 00:52:57,952
Anyone whose IQ is higher than the room in the temperature, the temperature of the room

792
00:52:57,952 --> 00:53:01,292
they're sitting in knows it was never marketed as a Bitcoin alternative.

793
00:53:01,612 --> 00:53:02,612
Neither was STRC.

794
00:53:02,972 --> 00:53:04,472
They're not shit coins.

795
00:53:04,692 --> 00:53:08,312
They're targeting an entirely different corner of the market than Bitcoin.

796
00:53:08,772 --> 00:53:10,072
I've never claimed it's Bitcoin.

797
00:53:10,212 --> 00:53:11,532
Walker has never claimed it's Bitcoin.

798
00:53:11,952 --> 00:53:16,252
Anybody who owns MSTR or STRC doesn't think it's Bitcoin, right?

799
00:53:16,252 --> 00:53:21,372
A lot of the people who are STRC detractors and MSTR detractors, beyond the death spiral

800
00:53:21,372 --> 00:53:26,312
garbage, they'll say, well, you know, people don't know what they own. People don't know what they

801
00:53:26,312 --> 00:53:31,872
own. Okay, wonderful. Like, do you think that they think they own Bitcoin? Do you think that

802
00:53:31,872 --> 00:53:36,272
they're morons? I mean, potentially, but it's a pretty low likelihood. And furthermore, do you

803
00:53:36,272 --> 00:53:41,512
think that basically anybody who buys anything in the equity market every two weeks passively

804
00:53:41,512 --> 00:53:46,812
through their employer managed 401k, do you think they know what they own? Do you think it's more

805
00:53:46,812 --> 00:53:51,312
responsible for them to own a random basket of goods and that that's extremely overvalued right

806
00:53:51,312 --> 00:53:56,952
now, by the way, versus a fixed income product that's yielding an extremely conservative amount

807
00:53:56,952 --> 00:54:01,092
relative to the asset that's underpinning it. Like, which is more responsible? You know,

808
00:54:01,492 --> 00:54:06,172
you can take issue with the marketing, whatever, AI generated ads, sure, fine, whatever, you take

809
00:54:06,172 --> 00:54:11,492
issue with that. But all of the other stuff, all of this death spiral, forced liquidator garbage,

810
00:54:11,692 --> 00:54:15,912
like it's just so silly. And a lot of people are going to lose a ton of credibility over the next

811
00:54:15,912 --> 00:54:20,332
couple of years. And we'll be awfully silent when it turns out that as I'm explaining now,

812
00:54:20,332 --> 00:54:27,492
strategy's fine. Bitcoin is fine. It lives to TikTok next block another day. Anyway, I digress.

813
00:54:28,132 --> 00:54:33,272
No, I really do appreciate the breakdown because you're speaking right to my soul there. And I think

814
00:54:33,272 --> 00:54:36,592
to a lot of people who have actually been paying attention to this and have a couple of brain cells

815
00:54:36,592 --> 00:54:42,092
rubbed together who have thought that the criticisms have just been like, yeah, lukewarm

816
00:54:42,092 --> 00:54:47,312
on the IQ scale at best. Because the other thing I think that people, I think there's a couple of

817
00:54:47,312 --> 00:54:52,532
cohorts that have really been coming out hard against Saylor, right? There's like the Tardfi,

818
00:54:52,752 --> 00:54:56,192
you know, excuse me, Tradfi folks who just like don't like what he's doing because it's got

819
00:54:56,192 --> 00:55:02,332
Bitcoin involved. There's the crypto people who don't like that Saylor just did financial

820
00:55:02,332 --> 00:55:06,812
engineering on top of Bitcoin and created stuff that was way more successful than any of their

821
00:55:06,812 --> 00:55:10,812
like fraudulent financial engineering schemes where they printed tokens out of thin air.

822
00:55:11,112 --> 00:55:16,012
So they don't like it. And then there's the Bitcoiner crowd of Bitcoiners who are either

823
00:55:16,012 --> 00:55:22,272
confused because they think that people think that mstr is bitcoin which it's not uh again joe made

824
00:55:22,272 --> 00:55:27,772
that point very clearly here i am making it again it's it's not nobody thinks that it is guys like

825
00:55:27,772 --> 00:55:35,412
and if if you do like i don't know like probably pretty dumb um but i think that a huge part of

826
00:55:35,412 --> 00:55:40,152
some of the bitcoiners getting really like hot under the collar about this has been they feel

827
00:55:40,152 --> 00:55:45,552
like somehow the messaging has changed or he or sailor is not he's not talking the way he used to

828
00:55:45,552 --> 00:55:53,872
And what I say to this is it's like, first of all, you have to realize he's not trying to appeal to you, the Bitcoiners, who are just buying Bitcoin anyway.

829
00:55:54,532 --> 00:55:55,432
He's trying to appeal.

830
00:55:55,492 --> 00:55:57,312
Bitcoin's a little over a trillion dollar asset.

831
00:55:57,392 --> 00:56:03,132
He's trying to appeal to the other $999 trillion worth of capital floating around in the world.

832
00:56:03,312 --> 00:56:09,232
He's not trying to appeal to the trillion dollars worth of capital that's already in here that isn't going to buy MSTR anyway.

833
00:56:09,372 --> 00:56:10,292
That's not his goal.

834
00:56:10,372 --> 00:56:12,532
He's not trying to speak the Bitcoin or language.

835
00:56:12,612 --> 00:56:13,992
He's trying to open up a wider net.

836
00:56:13,992 --> 00:56:19,592
I also think to the people who are like, oh, you know, he's clearly, he's clearly like lost.

837
00:56:19,712 --> 00:56:21,432
He's not thinking like a Bitcoin or anymore.

838
00:56:21,532 --> 00:56:24,472
He's like, well, insert whatever thing, whatever problem they have with his language.

839
00:56:24,472 --> 00:56:24,792
Right.

840
00:56:25,412 --> 00:56:32,832
It's like, Sailor's like a very intelligent guy, like highly, highly fucking intelligent.

841
00:56:33,232 --> 00:56:37,492
If you've talked to him for more than a couple of seconds, that becomes very clear.

842
00:56:37,572 --> 00:56:42,172
If you've listened to his, any of the bajillion podcasts he's been on, you should probably

843
00:56:42,172 --> 00:56:42,592
know that.

844
00:56:42,592 --> 00:56:48,012
When God made sailor, he took all of his social skills down to zero and then ramped the intelligence

845
00:56:48,012 --> 00:56:52,992
up to 99 and stuff. The guy's off the charts, right? Like an outlier from an intelligence

846
00:56:52,992 --> 00:57:00,672
perspective. Now, people seem to think that somehow sailor like changed. And like, I encourage

847
00:57:00,672 --> 00:57:05,192
you go back, listen to his, when he was first getting into Bitcoin, the way he speaks was

848
00:57:05,192 --> 00:57:19,658
speaking about it then Yeah He changed the way he speaks about it now because he also trying to cast a wider net but it also the fact that he created something that is very very very very large now and very I would say significant and important

849
00:57:20,158 --> 00:57:25,478
He knows that he needs to, you know, be mindful of his public relations, let's say.

850
00:57:26,038 --> 00:57:28,638
Go back and listen to the way he used to talk about Bitcoin.

851
00:57:28,638 --> 00:57:34,638
I guarantee you the way he feels about Bitcoin and what he thinks it is going to usher in has not changed.

852
00:57:34,638 --> 00:57:41,378
he's changed his messaging around it because he's smart enough to realize that you need to be careful

853
00:57:41,378 --> 00:57:46,558
of what you say sometimes and you can't be out there being like bitcoin is going to end the you

854
00:57:46,558 --> 00:57:51,618
know end the dollar and usher in a glorious orange revolution when you're the he's faced with the

855
00:57:51,618 --> 00:57:55,718
same intensity but he's not he's not going like bitcoin's gonna grow a million dollars tomorrow

856
00:57:55,718 --> 00:58:01,238
and you know like he's not saying that stuff it's almost measured right yeah exactly it's like a lot

857
00:58:01,238 --> 00:58:07,158
The people who are saying Saylor is not a Bitcoiner, like after you watch this, type in hope.com.

858
00:58:07,578 --> 00:58:08,358
See what comes up.

859
00:58:08,498 --> 00:58:09,758
Do you wonder who owns that domain?

860
00:58:09,858 --> 00:58:10,458
It's Michael Saylor.

861
00:58:10,738 --> 00:58:12,218
It is a Bitcoin website.

862
00:58:12,378 --> 00:58:13,718
He pays for hope.com.

863
00:58:13,778 --> 00:58:20,258
And I guarantee if you look up GoDaddy.com, whatever, I guarantee it's like a million a year at the very least.

864
00:58:20,258 --> 00:58:28,198
So this guy is forking over seven figures a year at least in order to create a website that talks all about Bitcoin.

865
00:58:28,658 --> 00:58:29,938
Hope.com, right?

866
00:58:29,938 --> 00:58:34,498
like it's it's almost it's very like his messaging on bitcoin has changed his intensity and the way

867
00:58:34,498 --> 00:58:39,238
he speaks about it is no different right he's trying to cast a wider net it's almost like i

868
00:58:39,238 --> 00:58:42,598
don't know if walker if you remember the clip of trump and there may be some libertarians watching

869
00:58:42,598 --> 00:58:45,798
so i'm not trying to offend walker i don't know if you're a libertarian but it almost reminds me

870
00:58:45,798 --> 00:58:49,998
of the clip when trump went to the libertarian conference and he was pining for votes and he

871
00:58:49,998 --> 00:58:53,378
was talking about ross elbrich and all this other stuff and then he said something that upset them

872
00:58:53,378 --> 00:58:58,118
and then he like like he snapped for a second he's like oh do you guys just want to vote for me or do

873
00:58:58,118 --> 00:59:02,298
guys want to keep losing? You know, like you guys get, do you guys want to get 1% of the vote over

874
00:59:02,298 --> 00:59:07,578
you? And it's like the same thing here, right? Like sailor is simply trying to cast a wider net.

875
00:59:07,638 --> 00:59:11,698
He's put on the suit. I mean, he always wore a suit for the most part. Sometimes you wear t-shirts,

876
00:59:11,698 --> 00:59:15,518
but it's like, he's put on the suit. He's changing his messaging around because he's trying to cast

877
00:59:15,518 --> 00:59:19,798
a wider net, right? Not everybody is going to listen to the cyber Hornets, cyber Manhattan

878
00:59:19,798 --> 00:59:25,218
stuff. Okay. Like we might love that. We eat that up. You were watching the Bitcoin podcast after

879
00:59:25,218 --> 00:59:30,478
all. Like we eat that up, you know, but most people don't. And so it's like the question becomes,

880
00:59:30,578 --> 00:59:35,798
okay, this guy's a Bitcoiner, like unabashedly a Bitcoiner. There's really no argument there.

881
00:59:36,138 --> 00:59:40,478
So do you want to, like, you can take issue with his marketing or whatever, but like,

882
00:59:40,478 --> 00:59:45,538
do you want to win or do you want to be like principled? And then Bitcoin, you know,

883
00:59:45,558 --> 00:59:50,258
never actually penetrates these markets. It becomes, I don't think anything bad will happen

884
00:59:50,258 --> 00:59:54,758
if strategy doesn't succeed, but it's like, why on earth wouldn't you get behind the guy who's at

885
00:59:54,758 --> 01:00:01,118
least attempting to do this you know anyway yeah no i mean great points all around it's like i think

886
01:00:01,118 --> 01:00:08,278
that sailor has been hugely positive for bitcoin i think anybody who thinks otherwise has some sort

887
01:00:08,278 --> 01:00:12,578
of axe to grind that's fine you're entitled to your opinion but i just it feels pretty objectively

888
01:00:12,578 --> 01:00:18,058
clear i'm curious do you think uh we didn't touch on this but a lot of people also seemed very much

889
01:00:18,058 --> 01:00:22,758
thrown for a loop by the fact that you know sailor was like well we're gonna sell some bitcoin you

890
01:00:22,758 --> 01:00:25,658
know, we might sell some Bitcoin, but we'll buy more than we sell. And people are like, well,

891
01:00:25,678 --> 01:00:31,238
how does that work? And like, do you think, can you, can you, can you, can you explain that a

892
01:00:31,238 --> 01:00:35,358
little bit, how, how that could possibly happen? And do you think strategy, let's say 10 years from

893
01:00:35,358 --> 01:00:41,618
now, 20 years from now is going to have more Bitcoin than they do today? I absolutely will.

894
01:00:41,958 --> 01:00:48,538
I'll explain it for those who might not know. So this is a calculator and I'll go ahead and

895
01:00:48,538 --> 01:00:53,398
explain how they could be a net buyer of Bitcoin forever. So let's assume, let's just even assume

896
01:00:53,398 --> 01:00:58,458
like bear case. Bitcoin only does 20% over the next 20 years. That would really stink, but it

897
01:00:58,458 --> 01:01:02,998
would still be a desirable asset over the S&P 500. So let's do bear case. This is how strategy does

898
01:01:02,998 --> 01:01:09,738
it. Ready? Bitcoin's doing 20%. And in order to fund that purchase, strategy offers an asset,

899
01:01:09,958 --> 01:01:14,878
STRC. Let's just say it stays at 12% right now. It doesn't decrease, which it likely will during

900
01:01:14,878 --> 01:01:15,938
the bull market, right?

901
01:01:15,978 --> 01:01:16,938
It likely will.

902
01:01:17,298 --> 01:01:19,098
But let's say it stays at 12% regardless.

903
01:01:19,498 --> 01:01:22,358
So Bitcoin's rate of growth is extremely low,

904
01:01:22,458 --> 01:01:23,158
historically speaking.

905
01:01:23,418 --> 01:01:25,098
STRC's rate of growth is extremely high,

906
01:01:25,198 --> 01:01:26,838
or its yield is historically high.

907
01:01:27,398 --> 01:01:30,238
So you've got a 20% asset on one side

908
01:01:30,238 --> 01:01:32,958
and a 12% funding mechanism on the other side.

909
01:01:33,258 --> 01:01:34,958
Now, I want people to look at that number there.

910
01:01:34,958 --> 01:01:38,118
You can see that there is no negative sign

911
01:01:38,118 --> 01:01:39,518
to the left of that number.

912
01:01:40,098 --> 01:01:43,458
That is what strategy would make in this scenario.

913
01:01:43,758 --> 01:01:44,518
And then guess what?

914
01:01:44,878 --> 01:01:52,078
You roll those 8% proceeds into Bitcoin purchases, rinse and repeat, that 8% is the Bitcoin you keep, right?

915
01:01:52,158 --> 01:01:54,478
That 8% differential is the Bitcoin you keep.

916
01:01:54,818 --> 01:02:00,238
So that's my demonstration on how a strategy could remain a net buyer of Bitcoin forever.

917
01:02:01,198 --> 01:02:04,358
You could send donations to me.

918
01:02:04,598 --> 01:02:06,958
I know that was a very, very complex explanation.

919
01:02:07,178 --> 01:02:10,838
No, but to be in all seriousness, the way that this would work is sort of how I described.

920
01:02:10,838 --> 01:02:13,098
And it all boils down to like,

921
01:02:13,478 --> 01:02:15,298
if Bitcoin continues doing what it always has done.

922
01:02:15,378 --> 01:02:17,118
And so arguably, like if you remove

923
01:02:17,118 --> 01:02:18,858
all of the corporate risk with strategy,

924
01:02:18,978 --> 01:02:29,964
of which there are unique corporate risks because they a public company and they a company generally Bitcoin is not But if you exclude all of those the risks to STRC and strategy ability to buy Bitcoin

925
01:02:29,964 --> 01:02:34,744
forever are the same risks to Bitcoin, which is that it drastically underperforms or does

926
01:02:34,744 --> 01:02:35,724
nothing, right?

927
01:02:36,384 --> 01:02:42,344
Strategy can only continue buying Bitcoin so long as its CAGR outpaces the yield on STRC

928
01:02:42,344 --> 01:02:43,124
and its other products.

929
01:02:43,244 --> 01:02:46,724
And even if it does underperform, they could always lower the yield, right?

930
01:02:46,764 --> 01:02:48,184
You offer an instrument.

931
01:02:48,184 --> 01:02:52,464
you are funded in an instrument that has a lower yield than the growth rate of the asset you're

932
01:02:52,464 --> 01:02:57,604
buying. And then you sell enough of the asset that you're buying to fund the yield. And then

933
01:02:57,604 --> 01:03:02,904
you keep the spread, right? So that's how they generate free cashflow. They have now moved into,

934
01:03:03,084 --> 01:03:09,084
like, as Fong said, an active capital management company. I've described as a Bitcoin transmutation

935
01:03:09,084 --> 01:03:13,524
machine. You have people who either don't want to hold Bitcoin because they're older, they're

936
01:03:13,524 --> 01:03:19,344
retirees or fixed income, whatever, right? Or you have people who cannot own Bitcoin because they

937
01:03:19,344 --> 01:03:25,444
have mandates to hold fixed income or mandates to not hold commodities or Bitcoin or anything else.

938
01:03:26,304 --> 01:03:31,744
And so that's what SGRC is serving. That's the market that it's catering to. And so effectively,

939
01:03:31,744 --> 01:03:36,544
what they're doing is they're taking Bitcoin's high growth properties, transmuting them into a

940
01:03:36,544 --> 01:03:41,824
very high yielding, but still a fixed income asset that is delivering a fraction of what this thing

941
01:03:41,824 --> 01:03:45,444
is doing. And then they're keeping the difference, right? They're selling enough of this thing to

942
01:03:45,444 --> 01:03:48,984
fund this thing. And then they keep the difference. Then they sell more of this thing to fund this

943
01:03:48,984 --> 01:03:53,844
thing. They sell enough to fund this thing, keep the difference, right? That's the flywheel.

944
01:03:54,224 --> 01:03:59,104
And now the Ponzi argument is officially dead. They have said that they want Bitcoin sales to

945
01:03:59,104 --> 01:04:02,324
be their primary funding mechanism for the dividend. I don't know what CoffeeZilla is

946
01:04:02,324 --> 01:04:05,804
going to make a video about. He interviewed Jeff Walton. I don't think it's ever going to show up

947
01:04:05,804 --> 01:04:10,424
in a broader video. That was painful. That was so painful to watch. Because he killed the Ponzi

948
01:04:10,424 --> 01:04:14,964
argument, right? He killed it, right? He has demonstrated and he has stated outright that he

949
01:04:14,964 --> 01:04:19,764
wants to sell Bitcoin. And that was my explanation of how they plan on doing it while remaining a net

950
01:04:19,764 --> 01:04:26,104
buyer. Do you think MSTR ends up making it, getting that S&P 500 inclusion anytime soon

951
01:04:26,104 --> 01:04:31,024
with these recent moves? No, I think they're going to keep moving the goalpost. So I think

952
01:04:31,024 --> 01:04:36,804
this was really huge. And I think if there was an ounce of integrity with the people at S&P Global,

953
01:04:36,804 --> 01:04:39,044
than they would, right?

954
01:04:39,164 --> 01:04:40,564
But I think they're gonna keep moving the goalposts.

955
01:04:40,624 --> 01:04:42,684
I think at some point there'll be a tipping point

956
01:04:42,684 --> 01:04:44,224
where it's like, they're such a large company.

957
01:04:44,344 --> 01:04:47,784
They're like, you know, $300 billion in size,

958
01:04:48,084 --> 01:04:50,384
half a trillion dollars in size, five, 10 years from now.

959
01:04:50,644 --> 01:04:52,364
And like, they have to, you know?

960
01:04:52,524 --> 01:04:54,244
But I think they're gonna keep moving the goalposts.

961
01:04:54,384 --> 01:04:56,084
And the reason I say that pretty confidently,

962
01:04:56,264 --> 01:04:58,224
despite strategy fulfilling these three objectives,

963
01:04:58,224 --> 01:05:00,424
is because these are the same people

964
01:05:00,424 --> 01:05:04,144
that gave the banks who are yielding subprime mortgages

965
01:05:04,144 --> 01:05:10,444
in 2008, like AAA ratings, right? They were giving all of these garbage fixed income products that

966
01:05:10,444 --> 01:05:15,884
was literally like shit with shit layered on top of it and then smeared in between. And then they

967
01:05:15,884 --> 01:05:20,384
were giving those AAA ratings and like, yeah, there have been reforms, whatever, but it still

968
01:05:20,384 --> 01:05:25,424
winds up being a committee reforms, right? They bailed out the banks after all, and not you.

969
01:05:26,084 --> 01:05:31,224
There continue to be, you know, there's still a committee involved. There's still a committee

970
01:05:31,224 --> 01:05:32,784
that has the final say.

971
01:05:32,924 --> 01:05:35,904
And as long as they hate Bitcoin,

972
01:05:36,104 --> 01:05:38,724
which is kind of the popular thing still,

973
01:05:38,884 --> 01:05:39,404
I don't know how,

974
01:05:39,884 --> 01:05:42,244
they're going to continue rejecting strategy.

975
01:05:42,464 --> 01:05:44,504
But you can only grow so large

976
01:05:44,504 --> 01:05:46,384
and be so successful for so long

977
01:05:46,384 --> 01:05:49,044
before the demand for it

978
01:05:49,044 --> 01:05:50,884
becomes so widespread

979
01:05:50,884 --> 01:05:52,764
that at some stage they will be included.

980
01:05:52,844 --> 01:05:54,344
I just don't know if it'll be this year or not.

981
01:05:55,324 --> 01:05:56,244
Yeah, it's fair.

982
01:05:56,344 --> 01:05:57,764
We don't have a crystal ball

983
01:05:57,764 --> 01:05:59,784
and never underestimate the ability of

984
01:05:59,784 --> 01:06:07,024
fiat regulators and rule makers to continue trying to protect their own moat as much as they can,

985
01:06:07,084 --> 01:06:11,824
right? Joe, we're getting a little close on time. So I do want to ask you kind of to round things

986
01:06:11,824 --> 01:06:16,384
out a little bit. I mean, you mentioned earlier, sort of think that, you know, let's say we're

987
01:06:16,384 --> 01:06:20,144
either near a bottom or bottom is going to form sometime. I think you mentioned like October,

988
01:06:20,304 --> 01:06:26,584
December timeframe. It's an interesting year. You know, we've got sparkling conflicts in the

989
01:06:26,584 --> 01:06:30,064
Middle East because of course they're not wars because we haven't declared war since World War

990
01:06:30,064 --> 01:06:38,244
II. So just sparkling conflicts. We've got midterms coming up. I think a lot of people are

991
01:06:38,244 --> 01:06:43,684
feeling uncertain right now, just broadly. I'm not even talking about Bitcoiners,

992
01:06:43,724 --> 01:06:49,544
not even talking about Bitcoin price, just on a larger level. It seems that, you know,

993
01:06:49,924 --> 01:06:56,204
entropy is doing its thing right now. What's something that sort of grounds you? Because

994
01:06:56,204 --> 01:07:00,924
you're clearly someone who has a continues to maintain a high level of conviction in Bitcoin.

995
01:07:00,924 --> 01:07:04,624
And I think you're a very, you're, you know, you're a very hopeful guy for the future.

996
01:07:04,864 --> 01:07:05,984
What helps ground you?

997
01:07:06,024 --> 01:07:07,504
What what gives you that conviction?

998
01:07:07,744 --> 01:07:11,384
What do you look for as sort of that that, you know, guidepost for yourself?

999
01:07:12,524 --> 01:07:13,224
For sure.

1000
01:07:13,584 --> 01:07:19,324
Well, I mean, I think from a Bitcoin perspective, like I, I have such high conviction in this

1001
01:07:19,324 --> 01:07:23,404
asset because I have done I've done my 1000 hours of podcasts.

1002
01:07:23,404 --> 01:07:42,150
No but well it like you know this asset was sort of uniquely designed in such a way to hedge against the very thing that we can prevent here in the West which is the slow and gradual monetary debasement the slow you know this financial repression of

1003
01:07:42,150 --> 01:07:45,310
keeping interest rates artificially low to inflate away the debt because that's the only thing we can

1004
01:07:45,310 --> 01:07:50,950
do. Bitcoin, its monetary properties are such that it's designed to benefit from that more than

1005
01:07:50,950 --> 01:07:56,130
anything else. And so as long as like the machine keeps humming, which it will because it can't stop,

1006
01:07:56,130 --> 01:07:57,930
then Bitcoin won't stop either.

1007
01:07:58,430 --> 01:07:59,830
So as far as a Bitcoin perspective,

1008
01:07:59,970 --> 01:08:01,090
that's sort of what grounds me,

1009
01:08:01,330 --> 01:08:03,670
is that reality that the problem's never going away

1010
01:08:03,670 --> 01:08:05,310
and nothing has killed the solution yet.

1011
01:08:05,490 --> 01:08:06,890
Nothing can really kill the solution

1012
01:08:06,890 --> 01:08:10,390
other than the problem going away, and it won't.

1013
01:08:10,510 --> 01:08:12,390
So that's sort of the way that I like to explain it.

1014
01:08:12,430 --> 01:08:14,150
And then as far as other stuff,

1015
01:08:14,250 --> 01:08:15,390
like grounding myself generally,

1016
01:08:16,110 --> 01:08:19,090
just like an insurmountable faith in God.

1017
01:08:20,010 --> 01:08:23,210
Like for those of you who might sort of be on the fence,

1018
01:08:23,290 --> 01:08:25,070
like I want to let you know that God loves you

1019
01:08:25,070 --> 01:08:26,790
and he wants to be in a relationship with you.

1020
01:08:27,710 --> 01:08:29,230
And like, he wants to know you.

1021
01:08:29,390 --> 01:08:30,930
Like he created you, he formed you.

1022
01:08:30,990 --> 01:08:32,190
There's a reason you're here.

1023
01:08:33,270 --> 01:08:36,290
And it's, part of it is to watch the Bitcoin podcast

1024
01:08:36,290 --> 01:08:38,050
and part of it is to listen to the show.

1025
01:08:38,990 --> 01:08:42,950
But like you were put here for a reason, right?

1026
01:08:43,030 --> 01:08:44,870
And so like, he loves you.

1027
01:08:44,950 --> 01:08:47,070
He created you for very, very important things.

1028
01:08:47,590 --> 01:08:48,670
And he wants to get to know you.

1029
01:08:48,670 --> 01:08:51,610
So like going to church every single Sunday,

1030
01:08:52,390 --> 01:08:54,690
serving there, reading my Bible,

1031
01:08:54,690 --> 01:09:01,970
praying relentlessly, like that has been the major force in my life that's grounded me despite all

1032
01:09:01,970 --> 01:09:07,690
the chaos. Because I know that like, if this world goes away tomorrow, right? So long as I, you know,

1033
01:09:07,730 --> 01:09:13,730
I'm as faithful as I believe I am, you know, and obviously we're all sinners. Then like, if everything

1034
01:09:13,730 --> 01:09:17,010
went away tomorrow, I could be fine. Like if I was living under a bridge tomorrow, it wouldn't be

1035
01:09:17,010 --> 01:09:21,730
ideal, but I'd be okay because this is not my home, you know? So that's sort of what grounds me,

1036
01:09:21,730 --> 01:09:24,530
It's sort of like the exact opposite of the nihilistic stuff.

1037
01:09:24,610 --> 01:09:26,830
The nihilistic stuff is like, well, nothing matters.

1038
01:09:27,310 --> 01:09:31,570
But then like the Christian stuff is like, nothing matters, right?

1039
01:09:31,790 --> 01:09:35,150
Because it's like, it's the same phrase, but said differently, because it's like, we have

1040
01:09:35,150 --> 01:09:36,130
an eternal home in heaven.

1041
01:09:36,250 --> 01:09:37,650
We were sent here to spread the gospel.

1042
01:09:37,790 --> 01:09:39,710
We were sent here to live like Jesus.

1043
01:09:40,250 --> 01:09:43,630
And so it's like, you know, come what may, I'm going to be all right.

1044
01:09:43,910 --> 01:09:47,430
Because at the end of the day, like all of this stuff, my flesh and bone is going to

1045
01:09:47,430 --> 01:09:48,790
rot off my body within a hundred years.

1046
01:09:48,830 --> 01:09:50,410
And like, I won't be here anymore, you know?

1047
01:09:51,010 --> 01:09:54,610
So you can either take that in a very nihilistic way or in an eternal way.

1048
01:09:55,610 --> 01:09:58,190
So, yeah, that's sort of kind of what grounds me, I suppose.

1049
01:09:58,670 --> 01:10:00,270
I don't know if that's what you were getting at the question.

1050
01:10:00,530 --> 01:10:03,230
It was, actually, on both counts.

1051
01:10:03,490 --> 01:10:04,810
Well met there.

1052
01:10:05,430 --> 01:10:07,590
Now, Joe, I really appreciate your time here.

1053
01:10:07,710 --> 01:10:09,070
This was a blast.

1054
01:10:09,150 --> 01:10:09,830
We're going to have to do it again.

1055
01:10:09,890 --> 01:10:11,850
I know you'll be back on BitCast.

1056
01:10:11,930 --> 01:10:16,170
You're becoming, you know, a regular feature there, and the chat loves you.

1057
01:10:16,170 --> 01:10:16,450
Thumbnail.

1058
01:10:16,750 --> 01:10:17,830
Thumbnail, that includes me.

1059
01:10:18,170 --> 01:10:19,690
We really, I've got to talk.

1060
01:10:19,690 --> 01:10:22,670
Nathan's on vacation or something, thinks he can just take time off.

1061
01:10:22,810 --> 01:10:24,130
Absolutely ridiculous.

1062
01:10:24,830 --> 01:10:26,870
There are no days off in Bitcoin, Nathan.

1063
01:10:27,510 --> 01:10:29,630
But no, tell people where they can find you.

1064
01:10:29,730 --> 01:10:32,550
I'm sure that there are going to be, if they didn't know about you already,

1065
01:10:32,630 --> 01:10:34,350
hopefully some more people want to check out your work.

1066
01:10:34,730 --> 01:10:37,090
You talk about a lot of stuff on your channel as well.

1067
01:10:37,170 --> 01:10:38,450
So where can they go find your channel?

1068
01:10:38,890 --> 01:10:41,970
Where can they like, subscribe, and follow and all that jazz?

1069
01:10:42,650 --> 01:10:43,010
Absolutely.

1070
01:10:43,250 --> 01:10:44,770
Well, Walker, thanks so much for having me.

1071
01:10:44,870 --> 01:10:46,070
I really do appreciate it.

1072
01:10:46,070 --> 01:10:53,050
And for those of you who want more of what we talked about today, minus the vaccine stuff, unfortunately, because I don't want to get demonetized.

1073
01:10:53,210 --> 01:10:53,990
We'll get into that next time.

1074
01:10:55,110 --> 01:10:56,890
Just search Joe Consorti on YouTube.

1075
01:10:57,010 --> 01:11:01,410
If you're watching this on YouTube, just click that collab link that's down right there.

1076
01:11:02,150 --> 01:11:02,850
Click on that.

1077
01:11:02,950 --> 01:11:03,510
Check out some videos.

1078
01:11:03,590 --> 01:11:04,650
And if you like what you see, hit subscribe.

1079
01:11:04,750 --> 01:11:07,750
If you're watching this on Noster, wait until the very end of the show.

1080
01:11:08,030 --> 01:11:10,810
And then just search up Joe Consorti and you can find my videos on YouTube.

1081
01:11:11,890 --> 01:11:15,950
That collab link thing is the most useful thing YouTube has done in a while.

1082
01:11:16,070 --> 01:11:17,250
It's fantastic.

1083
01:11:17,530 --> 01:11:18,050
Absolutely love it.

1084
01:11:18,110 --> 01:11:20,270
Well, Joe, thank you for your time, man.

1085
01:11:20,330 --> 01:11:21,370
Love picking your brain.

1086
01:11:21,530 --> 01:11:22,590
Love the work that you do.

1087
01:11:23,010 --> 01:11:24,230
So keep it up, man.

1088
01:11:24,370 --> 01:11:25,710
We need more of it.

1089
01:11:25,990 --> 01:11:27,750
And guys, make sure to go subscribe to Joe.

1090
01:11:27,950 --> 01:11:29,350
Thank you for those who joined on Noster.

1091
01:11:29,450 --> 01:11:31,270
Thank you for everybody who's watching this after the fact.

1092
01:11:31,350 --> 01:11:32,750
I appreciate each and every one of you.

1093
01:11:33,190 --> 01:11:34,250
Joe, it's been a pleasure, man.

1094
01:11:34,370 --> 01:11:35,170
Hope we do it again soon.

1095
01:11:35,970 --> 01:11:36,530
Likewise, Walker.

1096
01:11:36,530 --> 01:11:48,230
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin Talk episode of The Bitcoin Podcast.

1097
01:11:48,890 --> 01:11:52,850
Remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you're watching or listening,

1098
01:11:53,250 --> 01:11:57,150
and share it with your friends, family, and strangers on the internet.

1099
01:11:57,530 --> 01:12:03,850
Find me on Noster at primal.net slash walker and this podcast at primal.net slash titcoin.

1100
01:12:03,850 --> 01:12:12,250
On X, YouTube, and Rumble, just search at Walker America and find this podcast on X and Instagram at Titcoin Podcast.

1101
01:12:12,990 --> 01:12:15,230
Head to the show notes to grab sponsor links.

1102
01:12:15,350 --> 01:12:20,050
Head to substack.com slash at Walker America to get episodes emailed to you.

1103
01:12:20,350 --> 01:12:23,830
And head to Bitcoin Podcast dot net for everything else.

1104
01:12:24,390 --> 01:12:27,950
Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant.

1105
01:12:27,950 --> 01:12:33,570
So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to the Bitcoin podcast.

1106
01:12:33,850 --> 01:12:36,610
Until next time, stay free.