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I realized I kind of like accidentally stumbled into methods that some of these like hedge funds

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are doing really quietly. I'm just like putting them out there right now for Bitcoin. It seems

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like they recognize that the seller strategy is clearly a better strategy than what they've been

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embarking on. They chose to spend their time in that manner by directly leeching the wealth out

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of the exact people who they claim to have as customers. I'm a fundamentally different person

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for having discovered Bitcoin. I'm way more optimistic. I'm constructive, motivated, just

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like so many different things.

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It's just impossible to convey all the things that you know about Bitcoin to other people.

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These newer people that are just coming into the Bitcoin market are disproportionately afraid.

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I have so much anger towards the way the system currently works and want that to change.

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I just want to hang the political class and all these things.

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Like I have a part of myself that feels that way too.

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I want to burn this thing down.

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What rises from the ashes will be so much better and more glorious and more fair and

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more true and more honest.

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Michael Sullivan, author of Blood of the Bourgeoisie, that I still, every time I try to type out bourgeoisie,

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I don't know, I tend to be pretty good at the spelling, but for some reason that word just messes with me.

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How many, are you now the world-leading expert at spelling bourgeoisie on the first attempt?

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My fingers just naturally do it. I can't do it right anymore, the amount of times I've had to type this thing out.

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my favorite thing how people pronounce it too i never like to shame them for it because there's

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technically a bunch of different ways but yeah i at the conference i was just like walking up to

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people be like yeah i'm that guy that wrote that weird named book and people were like oh yeah i

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know what you're talking about what's the weirdest way you've heard bourgeoisie pronounced uh the

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best one is borghesey okay that's kind of like it's like hey y'all read that book blood of the

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borghesey like that's that's what i'm that's what's coming to mind right there uh but yeah

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no shame pronouncing things however you want you can feel free to use the the dirty words of marks

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and pronounce them however you feel like he's just making things up anyway too man but stoked to have

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you on here uh we got a few things to talk about today uh number one you are the author of a

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incredible book a piece of bitcoin thriller that is kind of what i've you and i talked about i've

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narrated the audiobook and thank you for that honor it was a fun audiobook to narrate and it's

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it's very much a sly roundabout way of, I think, orange pilling people and getting them to learn

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about Bitcoin through the medium of fiction, which is really powerful. And I think something we need

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more of want to talk about that people should go check out blood of the bourgeoisie. If you can

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spell it by Michael Sullivan, if you just type Michael Sullivan, blood of the should should

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populate if you can't spell bourgeoisie or if you struggle like I do. But then you've also been doing

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this really interesting sentiment analysis stuff that's kind of it's I mean, you've gotten a decent

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amount of like I would say acclaim or feedback on this now like it's it's kind of making it out

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into the larger space want to talk about that too and maybe that's a good place to start um and just

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for people to to know you're you're a man of many interests you're uh you're obviously an author of

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a multi I've written multiple books now you're also a uh you're you're a developer computer

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programmer engineer I don't know what you know moniker you prefer for that uh and then you you

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You know, you do a lot of grappling, a lot of BJJ and whatnot, too.

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You do a lot of things.

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You're a dad as well.

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Anything else I'm missing there in the world of Michael Sullivan?

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Oh, probably chess synthetist.

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I like music a lot, too.

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I basically just have, like, super high-functioning ADHD

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where I like to do a million different things all at the same time,

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and it kind of fills me up with energy jumping around to different things.

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It's something I notice is a common thread amongst many of us Bitcoiners.

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But, okay, let's start out.

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We'll talk about Blood of the Bourgeoisie a little bit again.

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People should go check out that book.

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Check out the audio book, too, if you want to hear it in my seemingly dulcet tones.

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But let's start on the sentiment analysis piece, because I think this is really interesting.

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We were talking just off camera that this, in my mind, the way I think about this is like you are quantifying the vibes.

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You're putting numbers.

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You're giving significance to the general vibes of, and you're looking at this individually, right?

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But maybe let's take a step back.

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what is this sentiment analysis that you are doing right now and how did you actually like what

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prompted you to start doing this yeah this has been a weird evolution for me i like been a writer

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for a long time been an engineer been really obsessed with language i like in writing stories

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and things uh you can really use like language as a tool to convey a lot about characters you can

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insert words that kind of like indicate how a person's thoughts and beliefs are changing over

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time. And the longer I've been in the Bitcoin space, the more I've recognized this thing happens

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out there too. Like the average mood of Bitcoiners is very different at peaks compared to at bottoms.

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And the amount of time people are arguing about things or at each other's throats during price

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dips is pretty high. I think people mostly like intuitively recognize this and have experienced it,

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but I kind of want to like see if I could quantify it anyway. And originally it was just like this

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curiosity for me. I like to write novels because I like to pursue a thread and think about something

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really deeply. And I wanted to analyze my own data on posts that I've done in the past and just

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see if there was like any interesting stuff there. Like, did I say anything stupid at different times?

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Was I overly optimistic or annoyed at different bottoms and things? And the answer is yes. I've

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said a lot of dumb shit over the years. That was a emphatic yes. But what was really interesting

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is that I actually was able to really tightly correlate like moods that I'd had over time

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and stuff with like Bitcoin price enthusiastic uptrends. I was like, wow, there's, this is

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really interesting. I wanted to keep pursuing it. So I started doing it for other accounts too.

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Like Michael Saylor was the next one, just doing large ones and found surprising dynamics where he

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like would really get optimistic before there was news out there on microstrategy or something like

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that, where he wouldn't convey anything. He'd have to be really close to chess with the words that he

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chose. But like sometimes the mood leaks into your language in interesting ways. And I really wanted

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to see if I could like with like engineering tools and data analysis tools and AI evaluate

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these. And the answer was yes. So I've been really deep into that and coming at it through

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a more individualized lens, which is maybe one of the more unique things about it, as

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you mentioned, a lot of the sentiment stuff that's out there right now is really trash

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because it'll be like, let's just aggregate everything I've said on Reddit or Twitter

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today and look at what the mood is. And that's garbage because there's all these bot accounts

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or people that'll say things that are inflammatory intentionally to get traction or interest.

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So I took it through the total opposite lens where I'm like, let's look at individuals that I think

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are like legit Bitcoiners. So I know personally, I know they're real. I know they're like relatively

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high signal. They've been around longer. They've been around shorter, various things. And look at

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them on a more individualized basis. And then like look at different cohorts of them. That's just

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super high level. But it's been like this crazy thing where I've kind of started pulling on this

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thread and it's just compounded, compounded, compounded and turned into this wildly fascinating

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project that I've been just completely obsessed with. Amazing. A couple of questions. When you

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talk about these other sentiment analysis tools, are you talking about like fear and greed index,

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things like that? Are there other ones that you look at where you say, because the fear and greed

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is like, like that's the one at least I know. And probably most people know as like, yep, you know,

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that's the sentiment index, right? Are there other ones or is that kind of the primary one that you

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look at with regard to Bitcoin? There's so much of this. One thing I've, that's the main one I was

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referring to. But one thing I realized as I got deeper into this is that like hedge funds behind

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the scenes have these tools all the time and are scraping all these things that have their own

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sentiment analyses and numbers that they're using in this kind of stuff. And I realized I kind of

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like accidentally stumbled into methods that some of these like hedge funds are doing really quietly.

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And I'm just like putting them out there right now for Bitcoiners currently. But there's a lot

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of different ways to measure sentiment. Like sentiment is a super loaded word. And the fact

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that like we all like will reference like current Bitcoin sentiment, but there is so much more

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granularity to that than I originally even thought when I started investigating this.

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And the one phrase I've kept using to describe it is kind of like the analogy of like, this is water,

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like you're swimming in this thing all the time, you're kind of blind to it, like everything and

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every opinion that you have kind of exists within this broader like sentiment that exists out there

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every time you engage with a bitcoin every time you listen to a podcast every time you read

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something on twitter it's through the lens of like what broader people are feeling at the time

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and people do brilliant jobs uh like like james check is just fantastic like i've learned so much

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from him with the on-chain analysis and the like tracking of actual utxos and like i was so inspired

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by that but because of my background and being so interested in language i wanted to see if i could

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do similar things, but look at the actual words and narratives people were using over time and

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see how beliefs evolved. So that was kind of like one of the high level ways I started doing that.

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And it actually ended up being pretty fruitful. I find this super, super interesting. I want to

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know, as you said, you started analyzing yourself and you were looking for other kind of key people

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that you were, I guess, following already people that are high signal in the Bitcoin arena.

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But so this is not necessarily aggregation of a bunch of people.

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This is more individualized.

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Or do you also then aggregate the individualized analyses as well?

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Yeah, so this is where it got really interesting.

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I originally just started doing it on a few people, like ones that I theorized might be high signal or whatever.

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But then I would actually look at, like, how much was their language optimism increasing over a duration of time?

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Because basically what you do is you throw every single thing they've ever said on Twitter into an AI model.

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Oh, boy.

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thinking about my own now and i'm like oh boy i'm always conscious to share stuff because it's like

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i feel a little bit creepy going through people's things i've been pretty like it's public though

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you know like we all said it at some point right uh and and then from that baseline see like if the

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optimism levels are higher or lower than their average thing they put out there um and i originally

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did this just for myself but then i like had some people that have been like relatively high signal

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in the past one who i've talked to that i've previously even did a video on was a guy named

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stack hodler he's a swiss guy a lot of people follow stack brilliant i originally pursued that

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because he he's a very good writer which is why i was very interested so there's like tons of text

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to go through and you can really get a sense for his mood over time um and found out that he was

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crazy high signal like he was disproportionately optimistic when price was way down and kind of

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pessimistic when things were up and it was just a really useful thing we were like okay this person

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is clearly like not just going to bull post at the top which again like i just want to keep framing

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this with like, I do this. I have done this. I am not like some like visionary, like a guy who

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understands what's going to happen in the market perfectly. I wanted to pursue this to like,

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kind of resolve my own delusions and kind of get a better, more holistic view of like what the

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general vibes were out there. So people like him were really useful. I also had done like the

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inverse of like people that are just new to Bitcoin. Like how are they responding comparatively

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to these people that have been here longer and look at the times when those have deviated over

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time. But you asked me about like the different chunks. I started with these individuals, but then

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I started realizing that I kind of found interesting different cohorts and I've started to like

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ball them up together and look at them against other cohorts. So one of the best examples and

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most interesting things is I've taken like OGs or people that have been around much longer

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and then compare them to these shorter term people. It's kind of a similar thing to what

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happens with long-term holders versus short-term holders, kind of that similar idea where you could

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watch if there's deviations between the two cohorts. And like even as of right now, one of

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the interesting things is that your average, like older Bitcoiner is significantly more optimistic

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in the language that they're using than these newer people that are just coming into the Bitcoin

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market, which is super interesting. These people are like disproportionately afraid. The newer ones

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and the OGs seem to be like weathering this. And like, we've been here before, we've kind of

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recognized this. And I thought that was really interesting. And again, it's kind of helped me,

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I feel have a more balanced viewpoint of where things are at like I'm not I'm not a trader I'm

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not day trading on this right it's like wanting to see what was here and form a more accurate

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worldview your bitcoin view because of that okay there's so much stuff I want to dig into here

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a slight digression but just you mentioned check uh James check and he's um agree he's like that's

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my quant you know what I mean like he he's he's fantastic people should check out let's come on

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the show a bunch got a you know great newsletter go check out James check check on chain if you

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haven't already uh and because he's also very like he's got his check the analyst and check the

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hodler and i'm curious in terms of the these different cohorts you're looking at these

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different data sets that you're looking at these different sentiments have you tried kind of

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overlaying some of that onto some of the analysis that he does from the on-chain perspective just to

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see because you mentioned the kind of short-term holder long-term holder like you met you know some

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of these the the og whales versus the people who are currently you know uh in the red because they

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just bought six months ago. Have you overlaid any of that at all at this point?

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I'm getting there, but I tried to emulate what he did in a different manner. Actually,

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this is when I haven't even put anything out with this really yet, but it was one of the most,

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another just thread I wanted to pull on and see if anything was there. So I took every single

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user I have in my system and I looked through every single tweet they'd done for instances of

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talking about Bitcoin price ever over time. And then I graphed every single one of those on a

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chart so you can see like the levels that people talked about bitcoin over time and how it relates

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to the bitcoin price so you can see like when we were chopping uh like the that summer of 2024 i

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believe like people were really like you could really see them talking about these lower bounds

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and when we were at all-time highs people started talking about like 200k and 500k all these crazy

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levels and then now people are talking about like lower things again before this and now they're

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like you just like actually see the same kind of interface that check looks at the same similar

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visualization like the specific price levels that people talked about um and some of them are these

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price levels that he's also found with like short-term holder cost bases and these kind of

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things because those just naturally show up more in people's tweets when they're thinking about

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these numbers so that was cool and i also did a similar style where i looked at different cohorts

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and saw what price levels they were talking about over different time periods and that was kind of

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interesting too this is all really fascinating do you view this also i mean can it be used almost

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predictively like if you if you had this set up to tracks in these more high signal cohorts

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that you know based on historical data tend to provide a pretty good signal one way or another

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and i'm sure you have like counters i imagine peter shifts a great counter signal we can maybe

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get into that a little bit later but is there a way for this views predictively where you can say

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like okay i've you know i just got notifications that like the sentiment levels based on these key

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cohorts are hitting this you know this this level which means like boy it's like looking pretty

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bullish or it's looking pretty bearish. Like, have you got into that set at all? Or are you still

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just kind of doing a lot of scraping right now, kind of a lot of the historical analyses to set

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that baseline? Like I mentioned earlier, I've had a bunch of people from hedge funds and that kind

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of world reach out to me and be like, this is literally how they're trying to do those things.

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And it was kind of a different, interesting take on it, especially in the Bitcoin space is very

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different than some of the individualized stocks they were looking at in their domain. But this is

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exactly how they're trying to do some of those things. And I kind of looking back, realized there

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definitely have been like inflection points where people like the OGs, for example, were much more

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optimistic than the newer people. And those have actually proven out to be pretty historically.

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It's like, you never know how these, well, these things, if these models keep working in the future,

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but they've been relatively predictive of like times when things looked pretty good,

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or it was a very opportunistic time to buy Bitcoin, these kinds of things.

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So looking back in the past, there definitely does seem like there's some signal there to some degree.

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like like i said though this is relatively early for me i'm only a couple few months into doing this

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and i i really wanted to use it as a way to better understand things myself so i haven't been trying

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to do any of that kind of stuff but i am working with some other people now that have started to

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reach out and want to explore using these things um adrian morris from true north has been doing a

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lot of work in sentiment that's crazy interesting to me and him and i've been talking a lot about

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this recently um where he wrote this brilliant essay about like how sentiment has been such a

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unique thing in the Bitcoin space.

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Like one of the dynamics of Bitcoin,

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like every market is very heavily impacted by sentiment.

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But Bitcoin, because it doesn't have these like metrics

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that people in the traditional finance world

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have traditionally traded on,

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like PD ratios or like cash flows and these things,

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it's a lot more sentiment-based.

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So I think like Bitcoiners in general

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are a little more familiar

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with how much sentiment impacts things.

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And then a derivative of that

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would be like the MNAVs of treasury companies.

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But there's like an additional layer of sentiment on top of the Bitcoin sentiment about each of these individual treasury companies.

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And I've even made attempts at measuring that where you can look at like the rate these treasury companies were mentioned over time and what moods and these sorts of things.

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And there's definitely some interesting stuff there, too.

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But yeah, lots there.

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protect your bitcoin sleep better stack harder this is also fascinating i mean you know i don't

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mean to throw a million things like i've done this have you done this i realize this is also

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like a side project you know hobby like you have uh you're you're a dad and you have a job and you

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finally hopefully just got a little bit more free time because you're not writing the book anymore

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and we could talk about that too but it is amazing and i assume you using are you using a number of AI tools to help with this analysis to put this together Oh absolutely I mentioned the AI models specifically to run the tweets through but I an engineer of 13 years

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I've just loved to make and build things my whole life.

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And this is the kind of thing I would have always wanted to build in the past, but would

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have been something where it's like, I would need multiple years and like a dedicated team

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to do these sorts of things.

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And because of my experience, I was really quickly able to like architect this whole

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thing, throw it together and do some of the UI layers and like the visualization stuff and like

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some of the other just like challenges of this really, really quickly compared to what I previously

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could. And it's such a dynamic thing too, where I'll get an idea and then I'll want to visualize

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the idea quickly. And so it takes a lot of like changing of things or building new stuff. But

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because of how much I'm able to leverage these tools, it's allowed me to iterate really, really

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quickly, get to a new idea, test it out, see if there's anything worth pursuing more there, and

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then keep following that thread as it kind of shows itself to me that it might be interesting.

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So those have been profound. At the conference, I was talking, my panel was basically about AI

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because I've been like a crazy power user of these tools, even when writing the book I was too, but

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they've really changed the way that I think about building things completely. And it's been

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really, really powerful in this. And I'm quite the optimist when it comes to AI in general.

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I do want to get into that as well. I want to poke at a couple more things in the sentiment side

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first in terms of like you mentioned stackholder was is a very high signal what what are some other

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i guess very high signal uh accounts that you're looking at where you you know that you've decided

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i assume you've run analyses on sailor um i don't know maybe lynn alden uh people like that uh can

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you give some of those in terms of the ones that you're really looking at where you're saying these

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provide me with really good signal and then what's the what's the peter schiff cohort as well let's

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Let's talk about that a little bit.

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So, yeah, you mentioned a couple names in there.

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Lynn's crazy high signal and proved out to be in some of the data, too.

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No surprises there, I don't think, for anybody.

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Maybe one that's less talked about was Andy Edstrom.

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He ended up being incredibly high signal, and he's very optimistic in his post right now.

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That was one thing I just kind of discovered as of this weekend, honestly.

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Sailor is, some of these are interesting because there's, like, different lessons that can be gleaned from different people.

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like people like say are speaking in a totally different manner to people like you or i where he

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knows his tweets are like analyzed out there and he's not he's being very careful with the things

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he's saying sometimes i think that's part of the reason he uses some of the ai generation for the

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stuff that he does too um so that one is i think there's interesting stuff there in a different way

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where it might like show different moods happening under the surface that he's not saying like that

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was kind of interesting when it comes to him but not he's not like this crazy high signal person in

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the sense where he's like really much more optimistic at bottoms more pessimistic at tops

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another one is joe carlos sorry i have huge respect for joe he just finished his book too

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him and i've talked to him i have a huge amount of i have a huge amount of respect and learnings

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from him frankly because he's like when i first came to bitcoin i think what most people do you're

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like a little bit overly optimistic about where things are going and you're more euphoric joe is

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very calm and middle of the road and i always just really respect that it's been and it's powerful

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to help have a more realistic worldview.

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So he ended up being one of those people

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that was really high signal as well.

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And kind of related to this,

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I know I haven't even answered your Peter Schiff question yet,

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but like maybe one of the most interesting findings

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was something I called like sentiment volatility,

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where I've noticed this across every single Bitcoin user

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I've ever looked at now,

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where when you first kind of come to Bitcoin

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and start posting on here,

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your like average volatility

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of like your ups and downs and your mood

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across every different mood is wild.

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And then over time, those people tend to be more muted. And that's part of the reason why some of the OGs and stuff, I think, are a really good signal here because they've kind of been around the Bitcoin ecosystem longer and they are a little bit less taken by whatever new narrative is wrapped up the average plot out there.

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so um i i've seen that in my own data too like looking at what i was doing early on compared to

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now i'm a little bit more like realistic about things um and yeah that was super interesting i

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think probably follows what people naturally think too like intuitively that made sense for me

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and then peter schiff like that was i don't want to like call any people out necessarily as like

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anti anti-signals but peter schiff is a very obvious one uh and because of that i wanted to

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analyze his stuff too um couple hilarious findings with him he is absolutely posting in a more annoyed

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kind of way and using more angry language language when bitcoin runs up and i have data on him for a

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very long time doing this because he's been doing this repeatedly for like since a long time but

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since 2020 like crazy and that was just comical the other thing with him is that uh he when i when

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I started looking at the rate at which he was talking about different things, like people view

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Peter as like a gold account, like he's the gold guy. He actually has tweeted the word Bitcoin more

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than the word gold more times since 2020. So he is arguably more of a Bitcoin account at this point

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in time by his overall language and usage than he is a gold account. Since 2020, it flipped like he

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was always talking about gold pre-COVID. And then afterwards, he's been talking about Bitcoin more

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often the gold which i just found absolutely hysterical um and then the last thing with him

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is that like if you were to buy bitcoin whenever he tweets about bitcoin you perform insanely well

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i think you did some cool stuff on that too if i remember correctly mine was mine was probably far

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less involved than yours was but i did just like a baseline analysis of this and yeah it was basically

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like if you bought a dollar of bitcoin or a dollar of gold every time peter tweeted the word bitcoin

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like your your bitcoin return i'm forgetting the exact date but like it was like an order of

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magnitude greater returns um like it was a massive amount if you know and even that was even with that

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was when gold had like been running up too and bitcoin was down and it was still like an order

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of magnitude greater returns denominated in fiat of course federal reserve notes but i i think that

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that's that's fascinating but what can i ask you then what is the what is the shift counter signal

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anti-signal saying right now then pretty good yeah honestly most markers are honestly pretty

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good right now at least in the sentiment stuff i haven't been like very predictive about it i've

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been right very cautious like this is this is sort of new to me and i don't really want to be

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prescribing much stuff but seriously like across the board things are looking pretty darn good

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the uh most recent one that was kind of a good counter signal perhaps then i've been trying to

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mostly look at bitcoiners because uh like they're talking more about bitcoin and they have a really

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strong signal if they're hyper focused on Bitcoin generally. But out of curiosity, I wanted to

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ingest some crypto trader folks and see what they were at right now. And I had like one of the most

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ridiculous things yet that stuck out to me around them where I ran, I just have a, it's a smaller

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cohort of these people, but their average use of like disappointed language, which is like one of

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the, there's a handful I use, this has been one of the better ones, is like absolutely going

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parabolic right now. Like the average crypto trader out there has never been more disappointed

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than they are right now in a wild degree, like one of the highest outliers that I've ever seen

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for this, at least in the sentiment stuff. I did a small post about it yesterday, but that's kind

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of a good counter signal as well. And again, like I mentioned, these like the OGs, this other cohort

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that I found that's very high signal generally are much more optimistic than the average person

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right now. Those are all trending aggressively more optimistic currently. Yeah, I can keep going

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on other ones but i think i can't answer that question that's it's super interesting on the

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on the quote crypto side of things too and that just mirrors that that just mirrors anecdotal

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like non you know non-quantitative just qualitative observation from my side for basically this whole

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kind of bear market there's this general vibe i think that the crypto you know the crypto uh

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00:28:52,238 --> 00:28:57,558
thing is kind of like it's people are realizing it's like oh shit the ship is really sinking this

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00:28:57,558 --> 00:29:02,758
time yeah we can print other ships out of thin air but they just sink immediately too like the

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00:29:02,758 --> 00:29:07,958
you know the jig is up a little bit um and i think you've also seen that mirrored in the actions of

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the large crypto exchanges you've seen gemini coinbase robin hood like we can call robin hood

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00:29:14,138 --> 00:29:18,098
basically they have the same gamification like i mean they basically invented a lot of that

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00:29:18,098 --> 00:29:24,938
gamification the same vibes there but they all at like about the same time rolled out prediction

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00:29:24,938 --> 00:29:29,598
markets to their users and then you know gemini and coinbase are like rolling out stock trading

387
00:29:29,598 --> 00:29:33,718
as well so they're all becoming uh i think i think it was alex leishman of rivers like they're all

388
00:29:33,718 --> 00:29:39,538
just becoming one app like it's all just the same app right and most of it is just most of it i mean

389
00:29:39,538 --> 00:29:45,478
like 80 to 90 percent of the vol volume not volatility but the volume on prediction markets

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00:29:45,478 --> 00:29:48,518
is just sports betting which is like fine do whatever you want with your money but like let's

391
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just be honest about what it is and so i think it's really interesting that you've seen this

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00:29:51,578 --> 00:29:59,298
sort of quiet pivot by the big crypto casinos to say it's basically an implicitly saying look

393
00:29:59,298 --> 00:30:03,438
we're done with like the you know the tokenized gambling we're just gonna do real gambling now

394
00:30:03,438 --> 00:30:07,738
like just okay call it call it what it is but they're kind of like lessening up on the crypto

395
00:30:07,738 --> 00:30:12,378
side of things focusing more coinbase has had to focus on stable coins obviously for a while

396
00:30:12,378 --> 00:30:16,398
yield generation but then also just the prediction markets where it's like

397
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i think it's kind of the realization that okay people just came into the crypto side of things

398
00:30:22,098 --> 00:30:26,398
for the gambling let's just cut out the middleman and give them the gambling like we don't need to

399
00:30:26,398 --> 00:30:30,558
slap some defi sticker on it and pretend that we're doing something innovative let's just give

400
00:30:30,558 --> 00:30:36,598
them gambling and like we'll make more money but i find that that vibe has been i mean if you have

401
00:30:36,598 --> 00:30:40,958
been holding ethereum instead of bitcoin this whole time or holding any crypto besides bitcoin

402
00:30:40,958 --> 00:30:46,678
like you're not doing very well at all and if you were trying to trade every shit coin under the sun

403
00:30:46,678 --> 00:30:52,078
like you probably got wrecked but i don't know maybe those people just pivot to prediction markets

404
00:30:52,078 --> 00:30:58,118
too uh maybe they come around to bitcoin michael i don't know but like you boy it is it is tough

405
00:30:58,118 --> 00:31:02,478
with some of those people uh i don't know you're kind of reminding me i i've totally forgot to

406
00:31:02,478 --> 00:31:07,818
mention this but one of the interesting groups that i looked at was crypto exchange ceos i so

407
00:31:07,818 --> 00:31:15,178
So I literally bundled all of them together, basically, the ones that you just rattled off there and looked at the language they'd use compared to other Bitcoiners.

408
00:31:15,238 --> 00:31:19,778
Because at the time, one of the really prevalent narratives was STRC continues to be.

409
00:31:20,258 --> 00:31:22,898
And I wanted to see if like these guys were talking about that at all.

410
00:31:23,418 --> 00:31:28,818
And almost every group of Bitcoiners I've looked at across the board has talked about STRC to some level or not.

411
00:31:29,138 --> 00:31:33,598
What was so interesting is like these guys are not talking about MSTR or STRC a single time.

412
00:31:33,698 --> 00:31:36,218
Like I didn't have a single instance of them ever talking about this thing.

413
00:31:36,218 --> 00:32:03,718
And I just thought that was interesting because it's like a really big narrative out there, regardless of what you think of it. It's like a very defining thing out there in the ecosystem. And these people, I think like, I'm going to like put words in their mouth a little bit here. Like there's no data behind this to prove it. But like, to me, it seems like they recognize that the sailor strategy is clearly a better strategy than what they've been embarking on. And it's kind of like that same saltiness thing that gets out there. Like, well, you don't talk about the thing that's like outperforming you or doing well.

414
00:32:03,718 --> 00:32:11,198
Like to your point, like their actions of getting into gambling and just BS is, it speaks volumes to where they're at right now.

415
00:32:11,318 --> 00:32:17,538
And they're clearly, I think, a little bit, have a little bit of animosity towards Scylla right now.

416
00:32:18,898 --> 00:32:22,098
I think that that's a very interesting point there.

417
00:32:22,118 --> 00:32:24,798
And it makes sense too, right?

418
00:32:24,858 --> 00:32:32,998
Because they've spent all of this time trying to, you know, basically put lipstick on a crypto pig, right?

419
00:32:32,998 --> 00:32:39,478
And it turns out like everybody, everybody can still kind of tell like, yep, okay, that's a pig, like a disease ridden pig.

420
00:32:39,558 --> 00:32:40,838
Nobody was going to eat that pig.

421
00:32:40,918 --> 00:32:44,318
You've like, you've tokenized that pig's, I don't know, something.

422
00:32:44,678 --> 00:32:46,858
I'm going to stop with that now before it gets gross.

423
00:32:47,138 --> 00:32:47,778
I was enjoying it, man.

424
00:32:47,938 --> 00:32:56,738
Yeah, but the point being, it's like, Saylor has kind of come in here and, you know, I know a lot of Bitcoiners too, do not love what Saylor is doing.

425
00:32:57,858 --> 00:33:02,258
I don't, I think, personally, I think he's a huge net positive for Bitcoin with all the stuff he's doing.

426
00:33:02,258 --> 00:33:06,718
I think anybody like it'd be very difficult to make the case that he's in any way a net negative.

427
00:33:07,098 --> 00:33:11,578
You can argue that you don't like what he's doing, but he's free to do it.

428
00:33:11,778 --> 00:33:13,178
And I think it's ultimately positive.

429
00:33:13,358 --> 00:33:16,038
That's my personal opinion, you know, non-financial advice or whatever.

430
00:33:16,918 --> 00:33:25,578
But these guys, they've tried to just create this, you know, incredibly complex Rube Goldberg machine of, you know, trying to extract value from people.

431
00:33:25,578 --> 00:33:31,798
and and it's honestly i think it's like it's just like shocking to them perhaps that look we could

432
00:33:31,798 --> 00:33:37,538
have been creating value for people like sailor is doing or like alex leishman's for you know

433
00:33:37,538 --> 00:33:41,478
take out the stocks out of things leishman and river uh not a sponsor of this show just

434
00:33:41,478 --> 00:33:46,758
very happy user their whole these is like they're giving you 3.3 percent paid in bitcoin

435
00:33:46,758 --> 00:33:51,298
on any cash that's sitting in there they're they could keep that like your bank does but they're

436
00:33:51,298 --> 00:33:56,478
given it to you they're creating like bitcoin products in that financial ecosystem that are

437
00:33:56,478 --> 00:34:02,318
actually valuable to you as a customer whereas every single crypto exchange has just been finding

438
00:34:02,318 --> 00:34:07,958
new ways to list new shit coins to basically fleece investors at the you know at the expensive

439
00:34:07,958 --> 00:34:12,598
invest at retail they're pumping their own bags or pumping their friends bags and it's just like

440
00:34:12,598 --> 00:34:17,778
it's so extractive and now it's pivoting to the straight gambling it makes sense like that that

441
00:34:17,778 --> 00:34:21,378
that tracks but it's like you could have just been trying to do things that are actually

442
00:34:22,098 --> 00:34:26,898
beneficial to your end customer like instead of wrecking your end customer that's something i've

443
00:34:26,898 --> 00:34:31,618
talked with alex leishman about he's like look like our philosophy is like we want our customers

444
00:34:31,618 --> 00:34:38,578
to be happy and get value it's crazy i know and like we want them to not become dissatisfied

445
00:34:39,138 --> 00:34:42,578
because they've been wrecked so many times like we don't want them to get wrecked we want them to

446
00:34:42,578 --> 00:34:48,278
keep being our customers and so it's like but boy i i think it'd be pretty difficult for any of those

447
00:34:48,278 --> 00:34:53,938
big you know crypto casinos to do a full bitcoin only pivot at this point like just especially like

448
00:34:53,938 --> 00:34:58,158
coin like there's no way coinbase is doing that there's no chance they can't they're publicly

449
00:34:58,158 --> 00:35:02,038
traded there's no like i'm sure investors wouldn't like that you know they're going to lose a bunch

450
00:35:02,038 --> 00:35:06,638
on fees there's just no way so their hands are tied a little bit i'm not excusing them by any

451
00:35:06,638 --> 00:35:10,198
means i'm just saying like there's no way they're ever going to pivot there like they just maybe

452
00:35:10,198 --> 00:35:14,878
should have kept it to Bitcoin in the first place. To me, like one of the most beautiful aspects of

453
00:35:14,878 --> 00:35:19,558
Bitcoin is the alignment of incentives where we can play these games together and create value and

454
00:35:19,558 --> 00:35:25,558
all get lifted up. Like that is absolutely what places like River are doing. And that's the

455
00:35:25,558 --> 00:35:29,898
opposite of what places like Coinbase are doing. They're directly extracting value in aggregate

456
00:35:29,898 --> 00:35:34,418
from their users. Like this is a short term strategy. And what's crazy to me is like if you

457
00:35:34,418 --> 00:35:38,898
understand Bitcoin, you kind of like understand that inevitably, like those kind of strategies

458
00:35:38,898 --> 00:35:42,078
probably aren't going to work over a long enough time horizon, but they still chose to do them.

459
00:35:42,658 --> 00:35:47,858
It's such a trip that that happened, that they chose to spend their time in that matter by

460
00:35:47,858 --> 00:35:53,938
directly leeching the wealth out of the exact people who they claim to have as customers.

461
00:35:55,218 --> 00:35:59,858
It really is just honestly like shocking. It just seems incredible. It's like a very fiat

462
00:35:59,858 --> 00:36:03,398
mindset, right? It's very short term. It's very high time preference. It's very extractive.

463
00:36:03,398 --> 00:36:10,618
it's it's yeah it's very it's very fiat i would say um i gotta ask you too and then we can uh

464
00:36:10,618 --> 00:36:13,558
maybe we'll circle back into this prediction stuff but i do want to get into some other

465
00:36:13,558 --> 00:36:18,198
topics with you but i have to ask have you run the analysis on me by any chance yeah i did yeah

466
00:36:18,198 --> 00:36:24,318
oh boy i do i want to know the i want to know if i'm a good signal or not uh so you and i actually

467
00:36:24,318 --> 00:36:31,458
have a similar dynamic in the sense where i'll take that i i uh my data is not always great

468
00:36:31,458 --> 00:36:33,078
because when I launched my book,

469
00:36:33,218 --> 00:36:35,638
I had so many people reaching out to me being like,

470
00:36:35,718 --> 00:36:36,498
dude, this is amazing.

471
00:36:36,598 --> 00:36:37,038
I loved it.

472
00:36:37,078 --> 00:36:39,238
So I'm like, my tweets completely flipped

473
00:36:39,238 --> 00:36:40,238
when the book launched,

474
00:36:40,238 --> 00:36:42,938
where I had so many replies to people being like,

475
00:36:42,998 --> 00:36:44,338
I'm so grateful for this thing.

476
00:36:44,398 --> 00:36:45,758
Like, thank you so much for all the positivity.

477
00:36:46,838 --> 00:36:50,058
So like my level of like usefulness on that data

478
00:36:50,058 --> 00:36:51,238
is not particularly high.

479
00:36:51,438 --> 00:36:52,218
It skewed a little bit.

480
00:36:52,378 --> 00:36:52,638
Okay.

481
00:36:52,918 --> 00:36:55,498
Whereas like before that, I was a great anti-signal.

482
00:36:55,678 --> 00:36:56,538
Like a lot of the times,

483
00:36:56,618 --> 00:36:58,838
like I definitely post it at tops and whatnot.

484
00:36:58,838 --> 00:37:01,178
I definitely did say some smart things,

485
00:37:01,178 --> 00:37:03,438
But like on average, it probably was not the best signal.

486
00:37:04,118 --> 00:37:10,098
You recently, with everything that happened with Carla, it was like you had like this crazy high levels of like gratitude and positivity.

487
00:37:10,538 --> 00:37:15,678
And it is interesting seeing that because like there's this data is not always perfect.

488
00:37:15,818 --> 00:37:19,478
You can't just be like, all right, well, this optimism thing is going to perfectly track the Bitcoin price.

489
00:37:19,558 --> 00:37:20,338
Like we're all humans.

490
00:37:21,118 --> 00:37:30,658
There's a really human element to this and which makes it very unique and kind of interesting, too, and creative because it's like there's no it's like this perfect like data driven thing.

491
00:37:30,658 --> 00:37:34,358
there's like a human element behind it which you need to be cautious about who you choose and

492
00:37:34,358 --> 00:37:38,218
listen to and whatnot but i just thought that was interesting i go look to yourself i was like oh wow

493
00:37:38,218 --> 00:37:44,798
like the kind of things you've been talking about have really changed since that it is super

494
00:37:44,798 --> 00:37:48,718
interesting it makes me think too that this is really could be you know not just as a tool for

495
00:37:48,718 --> 00:37:53,418
bitcoin sentiment analysis but just sentiment analysis in general like to almost check yourself

496
00:37:53,418 --> 00:37:58,918
a little bit i'd like to see like you know your your own you know mood swings over time and how

497
00:37:58,918 --> 00:38:03,438
much gratitude you are practicing like I think this has super interesting implications kind of

498
00:38:03,438 --> 00:38:09,158
more broadly just as like a a tool for self-reflection is that kind of has that happened for you at all

499
00:38:09,158 --> 00:38:14,978
through this process of exploration seriously yeah the it was kind of interesting looking at that

500
00:38:14,978 --> 00:38:18,758
like and then seeing times where I definitely knew I was kind of depressed in this time period and

501
00:38:18,758 --> 00:38:22,358
then seeing I had like lower levels and it literally came out in the language and the way I was relating

502
00:38:22,358 --> 00:38:27,758
to people like we kind of know we do that but to actually visualize the data and the things you said

503
00:38:27,758 --> 00:38:31,178
and then I have it set up where I can like go back and look at my tweets at that time period

504
00:38:31,178 --> 00:38:36,198
like damn man like yeah maybe you should practice a little more like kindness and stuff is down like

505
00:38:36,198 --> 00:38:40,318
I remember vividly getting into arguments with people that were totally unnecessary when Bitcoin

506
00:38:40,318 --> 00:38:44,638
price was down because I was kind of aggravated and I was spending time on Twitter about it or

507
00:38:44,638 --> 00:38:49,718
during like big conflicts which is an interesting dynamic too because like around some of these

508
00:38:49,718 --> 00:38:53,458
events people disproportionately are angry that kind of thing and that shows up in the data too

509
00:38:53,458 --> 00:38:58,078
there's all sorts of interesting things there but i like honestly you could just run these tools over

510
00:38:58,078 --> 00:39:04,838
the things you say out there and kind of get um feedback on like the like if how kind you're being

511
00:39:04,838 --> 00:39:09,238
to other people which is an interesting thing like a maybe more depressing one is like the people that

512
00:39:09,238 --> 00:39:14,638
have had like people die or like negative things happen to them that also shows up in here which

513
00:39:14,638 --> 00:39:18,578
is always a little bit heartbreaking too it's a it's a weird thing because it's like this marriage

514
00:39:18,578 --> 00:39:22,738
between like this really analytical data side of things and like this really human and emotional

515
00:39:22,738 --> 00:39:28,038
side of things, which is why it makes me so curious, but it's also just a strange thing.

516
00:39:29,758 --> 00:39:33,518
Maybe one other question, because the questions just keep popping up, because this is fascinating.

517
00:39:34,238 --> 00:39:38,838
Have you thought about running this on, like, what have you applied this sentiment analysis

518
00:39:38,838 --> 00:39:44,258
that you're doing to, for instance, like Fed press conferences? Like, you know, analyze and

519
00:39:44,258 --> 00:39:49,038
use, like, you throw that together and are able to use it in some sort of a predictive way.

520
00:39:49,038 --> 00:39:54,998
And like that becomes, I think, an even more interesting product to a lot of people.

521
00:39:55,578 --> 00:39:56,738
But have you thought about doing that?

522
00:39:56,758 --> 00:40:02,398
Like have you looked at some different types of data sets just to sort of check the assumptions even about this,

523
00:40:02,618 --> 00:40:04,558
the assumptions you're making within the Bitcoin data sets?

524
00:40:05,038 --> 00:40:12,158
Have you thought about looking at any other sort of macro, let's say, elements to analyze for sentiment or geopolitically even?

525
00:40:12,158 --> 00:40:14,438
Hell, I mean, like you could throw this at anything, right?

526
00:40:14,438 --> 00:40:19,178
I know people have done that for like Trump and Jay Powell like to actually look at things and see

527
00:40:19,178 --> 00:40:22,318
if there's stuff there some of the hedge fund dudes like they've mentioned that kind of thing

528
00:40:22,318 --> 00:40:26,518
is happening behind the scenes it's just usually not public which is interesting like again I didn't

529
00:40:26,518 --> 00:40:30,858
really know this existed that well because it's not out there but apparently it is out there it's

530
00:40:30,858 --> 00:40:33,678
just these things are happening behind the scenes and they're not sharing it with you because it's

531
00:40:33,678 --> 00:40:37,998
a way that people find alpha they like really all like a lot of this is done through the lens of like

532
00:40:37,998 --> 00:40:43,898
political people or um like famous folks like a like a sailor I guarantee you like he's aware that

533
00:40:43,898 --> 00:40:47,178
this thing's happening with the things that he says because he's head of such a big publicly

534
00:40:47,178 --> 00:40:53,058
traded company that has a lot of volume on it and these sorts of things um you can you can definitely

535
00:40:53,058 --> 00:40:57,118
do some interesting things with this like you can even like look at different world events and see

536
00:40:57,118 --> 00:41:01,758
how different cohorts of people reacted to that like narratives that popped up around it um

537
00:41:01,758 --> 00:41:06,098
narratives that change over time so like for example sailor was the first to say like digital

538
00:41:06,098 --> 00:41:10,838
credit pretty much and then you can watch that narrative spread across bitcoiners proliferate

539
00:41:10,838 --> 00:41:14,258
through the entire system and see which channels it's going through, which is really fascinating

540
00:41:14,258 --> 00:41:14,558
too.

541
00:41:15,438 --> 00:41:20,398
To answer your original question all more directly, though, there's some reasons I gravitated

542
00:41:20,398 --> 00:41:22,618
and kind of had this idea around the Bitcoin space.

543
00:41:23,058 --> 00:41:24,398
Well, because I'm a Bitcoiner, obviously.

544
00:41:24,518 --> 00:41:25,178
That was the main thing.

545
00:41:25,238 --> 00:41:28,158
It was just like the water I swim in, I wanted to understand better.

546
00:41:28,698 --> 00:41:32,398
But the Bitcoiners talk about Bitcoin to a crazy degree.

547
00:41:32,578 --> 00:41:33,798
It makes up a huge part of our lives.

548
00:41:33,878 --> 00:41:46,036
And like the entire reason I used Twitter in the first place was to talk to Bitcoiners to make friends in the Bitcoin system which makes our moods a little bit better representations of where things are happening compared to somebody who just like buying some Walmart stock or whatever

549
00:41:46,676 --> 00:41:51,476
Like there's a lot of people that invest in little companies that aren't as directly impacted by the Bitcoin price.

550
00:41:51,596 --> 00:41:55,176
It's very like instrumental to those of us in here, which makes it much higher signal.

551
00:41:55,636 --> 00:41:57,576
There's also some things with different data sources.

552
00:41:58,336 --> 00:42:04,336
I did look at ingesting podcast data, and that's possible because you can get transcripts relatively easily from videos

553
00:42:04,336 --> 00:42:05,396
and see how stuff is trended.

554
00:42:05,516 --> 00:42:09,736
But what's interesting about Twitter data specifically

555
00:42:09,736 --> 00:42:11,456
is that it's much more frequent

556
00:42:11,456 --> 00:42:13,136
and over a longer time horizon.

557
00:42:13,316 --> 00:42:16,516
So like a podcast, like Sailor, again,

558
00:42:16,576 --> 00:42:17,776
because he's a pretty good example of this

559
00:42:17,776 --> 00:42:18,516
because he does tons of them.

560
00:42:18,596 --> 00:42:19,736
We'll go on a podcast one day

561
00:42:19,736 --> 00:42:21,296
and then it'd be a two weeks pass

562
00:42:21,296 --> 00:42:22,276
and he goes on another one.

563
00:42:22,616 --> 00:42:23,836
And then maybe they were filmed at the same day.

564
00:42:23,896 --> 00:42:24,316
I don't know.

565
00:42:24,396 --> 00:42:25,456
Maybe they were filmed farther apart.

566
00:42:25,556 --> 00:42:27,376
There's just a lot more like messiness in here

567
00:42:27,376 --> 00:42:29,036
where if you look at tweets over time,

568
00:42:29,096 --> 00:42:30,236
people are tweeting almost every day.

569
00:42:30,396 --> 00:42:32,596
So you get like better accurate representations

570
00:42:32,596 --> 00:42:36,836
of how people like their underlying mood is changing over time so those kind of things are

571
00:42:36,836 --> 00:42:42,956
arguably better done on twitter data sets podcasts however are oftentimes where like narratives will

572
00:42:42,956 --> 00:42:48,156
start or somebody will say a really interesting idea for the first time i again i'm very interested

573
00:42:48,156 --> 00:42:53,576
in language i like the study of etymology and like how languages change and evolve over time

574
00:42:53,576 --> 00:42:58,256
and these things are just fascinating to me i am curious if you've noticed as like a very somebody

575
00:42:58,256 --> 00:43:04,096
like very much in the bitcoin podcast realm of like i will see somebody mention something on a

576
00:43:04,096 --> 00:43:08,936
bigger bitcoin podcast and then that phrase will proliferate to all sorts of other podcasts like

577
00:43:08,936 --> 00:43:12,616
it happens with sailor all the time but i've even seen happen with what bitcoin did before where

578
00:43:12,616 --> 00:43:17,016
like some new guest is on there they say dollar milkshake theory and then suddenly every bitcoiner

579
00:43:17,016 --> 00:43:21,316
says dollar milkshake theory and every bit of analysis they do subsequently i always just

580
00:43:21,316 --> 00:43:25,616
noticed that and like found it interesting and now i'm literally like analyzing how that happens

581
00:43:25,616 --> 00:43:30,556
in Twitter data, but that happens a lot in podcasts too. It definitely does. I think that's a good way

582
00:43:30,556 --> 00:43:39,056
of describing in terms of podcasts being more of like a narrative setting function versus a tool for

583
00:43:39,056 --> 00:43:44,156
actual, you know, vibe checking for sentiment analysis, right? Just because, again, like you

584
00:43:44,156 --> 00:43:46,736
said, like you don't know when it was recorded. You don't know like that. There's gonna be so many

585
00:43:46,736 --> 00:43:51,576
confounding variables in there that would throw that off. But I've definitely noticed that as well.

586
00:43:51,576 --> 00:43:57,396
And I think that one of the reasons that that happens to Dollar Milkshake, obviously, is something that's, you know, it's a good example.

587
00:43:57,476 --> 00:43:59,196
It's one that's been around, you know, for a long time.

588
00:43:59,236 --> 00:44:01,436
But maybe people hadn't heard about that before until that.

589
00:44:01,496 --> 00:44:02,456
And then they start looking into it.

590
00:44:02,456 --> 00:44:09,156
And it's like, but there's also, I think, especially with Saylor, I think especially during his kind of early run of podcasts.

591
00:44:09,336 --> 00:44:11,536
I mean, he's done so, so I don't know how many.

592
00:44:11,756 --> 00:44:17,716
Between Saylor and Lynn Alden, just the pure breadth of podcast appearances is incredible.

593
00:44:17,716 --> 00:44:25,436
but you you would see him actively kind of coming up with things in real time like because it was

594
00:44:25,436 --> 00:44:29,236
part of his journey i think was going on and talking about these things you'd see him actually

595
00:44:29,236 --> 00:44:35,036
like you know creating new analogies thinking up on the spot with new ways of saying things new ways

596
00:44:35,036 --> 00:44:41,416
of phrasing them and i think that was i think you get less of that now because now he's he's got it

597
00:44:41,416 --> 00:44:46,616
let's say, quote, figured out more. And from to your point earlier as well, like,

598
00:44:47,136 --> 00:44:51,756
Saylor is a great PR guy, he knows that he needs to be very, very, very careful about what he says,

599
00:44:52,156 --> 00:44:57,516
you know, anywhere publicly. And so it's a little bit not not not not scripted or anything like

600
00:44:57,516 --> 00:45:04,376
that. But he he's got a tighter vernacular, let's say, versus when he was in more of his just like,

601
00:45:04,796 --> 00:45:09,356
you know, going galaxy brain phase with all of this. And there's just all these crazy analogies

602
00:45:09,356 --> 00:45:13,996
coming out they were like you know really really good and really helpful for a ton of people um

603
00:45:13,996 --> 00:45:17,516
but it's it's fascinating i was just thinking about this and really like what because you

604
00:45:17,516 --> 00:45:21,696
mentioned the the spreading of different ideas like digital credit for example sailors kind of

605
00:45:21,696 --> 00:45:26,216
you know these patients zero for that and then it spreads it's really like what you're able to

606
00:45:26,216 --> 00:45:30,316
analyze through this which i think is fascinating is essentially mimetic propagation yeah you're

607
00:45:30,316 --> 00:45:38,156
able you're able to see how memes spread in a very real and kind of analytical way and i think that's

608
00:45:38,156 --> 00:45:44,156
fast you could probably do some really neat data viz work on on the mimetic propagation specifically

609
00:45:44,156 --> 00:45:48,716
but i i find all this fascinating i could keep asking you questions about this all day that's

610
00:45:48,716 --> 00:45:53,196
the one more thing yeah go for it yeah i've already started to do some of the things you're

611
00:45:53,196 --> 00:45:58,716
describing here one but uh two the uh something i again i'm like obsessed with language i think

612
00:45:58,716 --> 00:46:04,476
language is crazy and i think people underestimate how powerful it is as a tool i know you have to

613
00:46:04,476 --> 00:46:09,836
to have this experience doing podcasts where like the language is more than just like a thing you

614
00:46:09,836 --> 00:46:15,936
communicate with. Like they're having being forced to form thoughts out of your brain and make mouth

615
00:46:15,936 --> 00:46:20,436
sounds with those thoughts is like a profound thing that forces you to actually crystallize

616
00:46:20,436 --> 00:46:24,176
your own ideas too. Like you were describing with Saylor. One of the reasons I fell in love with

617
00:46:24,176 --> 00:46:28,236
writing is because of this dynamic where I had all these ideas, but they're kind of messy in your

618
00:46:28,236 --> 00:46:32,316
head and then writing them down and refining, refining, refining is really powerful. Like

619
00:46:32,316 --> 00:46:35,196
there's something crazy with language interrelated to humans.

620
00:46:35,516 --> 00:46:37,096
LLMs being another example of this,

621
00:46:37,156 --> 00:46:39,576
where like the way we found AI to work

622
00:46:39,576 --> 00:46:41,936
is by like leveraging the power of human language

623
00:46:41,936 --> 00:46:44,416
and like aggregating and pushing it out in interesting ways.

624
00:46:44,536 --> 00:46:47,136
Like, I don't know what the takeaway here is.

625
00:46:47,216 --> 00:46:48,516
I just think it's crazy interesting

626
00:46:48,516 --> 00:46:50,976
and that like language is still an underexplored thing,

627
00:46:50,976 --> 00:46:53,176
which was one of the drivers for my interest here.

628
00:46:54,096 --> 00:46:55,196
No, absolutely.

629
00:46:55,476 --> 00:46:57,736
And obviously you must love language

630
00:46:57,736 --> 00:47:00,056
because you wrote, you've written two books.

631
00:47:00,136 --> 00:47:01,996
Now let's talk about Blood of the Bourgeoisie a little bit.

632
00:47:02,316 --> 00:47:07,116
Again, if you have not read it yet, if you like to read, go order it.

633
00:47:07,336 --> 00:47:09,556
You can find it on Amazon if you like to listen to the audiobook.

634
00:47:09,736 --> 00:47:11,156
I've got my copies around here.

635
00:47:11,876 --> 00:47:13,736
My studio is very messy right now.

636
00:47:13,996 --> 00:47:17,496
It is somewhere right around here underneath a bunch of sound panels that I have not yet installed.

637
00:47:18,356 --> 00:47:20,176
So go order it.

638
00:47:20,576 --> 00:47:22,256
Go listen to the audiobook if you want that.

639
00:47:22,256 --> 00:47:31,116
You can hear me do multiple different female voices as well, which was a very, very fun experience for me, honestly.

640
00:47:31,116 --> 00:47:37,016
I was like a little bit daunting at first, but you created some really great characters in this.

641
00:47:37,236 --> 00:47:39,736
Can we maybe back up a little bit?

642
00:47:39,876 --> 00:47:44,176
And why did you decide to write Blood of the Bourgeoisie in the first place?

643
00:47:44,236 --> 00:47:52,636
What was the catalyst for you saying, I'm going to write, you know, a Bitcoin thriller, but it's not just going to be about Bitcoin, but it is going to be about Bitcoin.

644
00:47:53,036 --> 00:47:56,256
How did you decide, like, what was the, I need to do this moment?

645
00:47:57,156 --> 00:47:58,296
So I've been writing for a while.

646
00:47:58,296 --> 00:48:02,996
I originally just started writing and did journaling for quite a long time and had some

647
00:48:02,996 --> 00:48:04,356
ideas I wanted to explore deeper.

648
00:48:04,656 --> 00:48:06,996
And I had some takeaways that I wanted to share with people.

649
00:48:07,116 --> 00:48:12,096
My first book was about like the importance of embracing your genetic differences, like

650
00:48:12,096 --> 00:48:15,336
neurological diversity and these kind of things and what that might look like in a world where

651
00:48:15,336 --> 00:48:19,416
people were wanting to eliminate diversity among people, like in neurological issues

652
00:48:19,416 --> 00:48:22,616
and get rid of like autism, ADHD, Tourette's syndrome, et cetera.

653
00:48:23,276 --> 00:48:24,116
That was a whole thing.

654
00:48:24,116 --> 00:48:28,696
a lot of learning processes, but I learned about Bitcoin on the journey of writing that book. And

655
00:48:28,696 --> 00:48:33,236
as soon as that one wrapped up, I was like, I've developed this skill of writing and a love of

656
00:48:33,236 --> 00:48:37,776
writing. And I felt like I just owed something to Bitcoin. I think a lot of people feel this,

657
00:48:37,876 --> 00:48:43,496
like I'm a fundamentally different person for having discovered Bitcoin. I'm way more optimistic,

658
00:48:43,756 --> 00:48:49,576
I'm constructive, motivated, just like so many different things. And I felt overwhelmingly

659
00:48:49,576 --> 00:48:56,416
like called to do something for Bitcoin, right? Like a lot of people do that. I think that's a

660
00:48:56,416 --> 00:49:01,036
normal thing. Like, Hey, you're doing a Bitcoin podcast. Like I imagine you have similar sentiments

661
00:49:01,036 --> 00:49:06,156
around that. Right. So I just started writing and I wasn't sure where it would take me. Again,

662
00:49:06,176 --> 00:49:09,196
I like to pull on threads. Part of the reason I fell in love with novel writing is not because

663
00:49:09,196 --> 00:49:13,516
I like had a perfect vision for a story. It's like, I know something in my heart,

664
00:49:13,556 --> 00:49:17,896
like wants to do this and we're going to see where it goes. So that's all I really started

665
00:49:17,896 --> 00:49:23,876
with is I wanted something around Bitcoin. And the longer I spent just like throwing tons and

666
00:49:23,876 --> 00:49:27,216
tons of time and proof of work at it, like the thing kind of naturally evolves, which I think

667
00:49:27,216 --> 00:49:30,396
is one of the more beautiful things about artistic creativity is you get to just like kind of see

668
00:49:30,396 --> 00:49:35,156
where an idea takes you. And it turned into something really cool that was very different

669
00:49:35,156 --> 00:49:38,016
than what I was originally envisioning, but it kind of turned into this thing that I

670
00:49:38,016 --> 00:49:43,156
wished I could give to people. Like I have tried orange peeling many people, which I'm sure that

671
00:49:43,156 --> 00:49:48,336
you have too. And it doesn't typically go that well. I've given like my bookshelf over here,

672
00:49:48,396 --> 00:49:52,616
like the Bitcoin standard or like Lynn's book. Like I've directly given those books to people.

673
00:49:53,316 --> 00:49:56,996
They not gave a single shit about the book and ignored it completely. I was like, man,

674
00:49:56,996 --> 00:50:01,656
this sucks because these things changed my life and were really positive. So I wanted something

675
00:50:01,656 --> 00:50:04,816
that like I could package up in a way where I could give this somebody with literally no interest

676
00:50:04,816 --> 00:50:08,616
in Bitcoin that I might read a thriller and see if they could have some like sly roundabout

677
00:50:08,616 --> 00:50:12,196
exposure to Bitcoin in the process. So that's kind of what it turned into where it's written

678
00:50:12,196 --> 00:50:17,896
in a thriller format very captivating which was tactical in a sense where like different chapters

679
00:50:17,896 --> 00:50:23,036
and switching character povs and like really making sure like it's always it's very quick

680
00:50:23,036 --> 00:50:29,216
read and fun read um like having that but having bitcoin laced into it particularly in a way where

681
00:50:29,216 --> 00:50:33,836
like it's not throwing technical concepts at you from like page one you don't even like you see the

682
00:50:33,836 --> 00:50:39,136
word bitcoin until like maybe three chapter or four chapters in and then it slowly incrementally

683
00:50:39,136 --> 00:50:44,056
levels up to the point where like the way things resolve in the story and the stuff is fundamentally

684
00:50:44,056 --> 00:50:48,656
related to how Bitcoin works and what Bitcoin is. So it's kind of high level overview of it at least.

685
00:50:49,456 --> 00:50:58,176
I love the book. And it is very dynamic. The chapters, there's 69 chapters total. I believe,

686
00:50:58,296 --> 00:51:02,276
nice. I remember when I first saw that, I was like, was this on purpose? You're like, you know,

687
00:51:02,276 --> 00:51:08,776
maybe, you know. But they're quick, right? They're snappy. They're keeping you on the edge of your

688
00:51:08,776 --> 00:51:15,456
seat. It's a it's a very I mean, it's a it's an intense book. Also, like it is, as the title

689
00:51:15,456 --> 00:51:23,076
implies, like there there is blood. And it deals with some really, I think, some of the concepts

690
00:51:23,076 --> 00:51:27,096
that it deals with outside of just strictly Bitcoin, right? Because it's Yeah, it's a I mean,

691
00:51:27,096 --> 00:51:32,636
it's a Bitcoin thriller, but it's not just a Bitcoin thriller, like a lot of what you you know,

692
00:51:32,656 --> 00:51:36,376
and without, you know, giving away any spoilers, and I think this is fair to say a lot of what you

693
00:51:36,376 --> 00:51:42,336
get into in the book is really about sort of the class struggle, but then also about, let's say,

694
00:51:42,336 --> 00:51:49,456
the American hegemon more broadly. What, you know, our military actions or lack thereof in

695
00:51:49,456 --> 00:51:54,536
different places, the marriage of various, you know, political and corporate interests,

696
00:51:54,656 --> 00:51:58,936
like it digs into a lot of different things. And it also digs into, I think, very largely,

697
00:51:59,536 --> 00:52:06,216
the theme of anger and resentment towards the current state of things, but approached from

698
00:52:06,216 --> 00:52:14,196
different perspectives with very different uh methods of let's say alleviating that frustration

699
00:52:14,196 --> 00:52:21,576
uh you know was how much of it did you want to be a an a common you know let me ask this differently

700
00:52:21,576 --> 00:52:27,956
was your goal in the writing to provide a commentary on some of these things or just

701
00:52:27,956 --> 00:52:33,676
to write a good story because i feel like so much now whether it be the written word whether it be

702
00:52:33,676 --> 00:52:40,556
uh visual media whatever it is so much uh let's say ideology is injected into so many things

703
00:52:40,556 --> 00:52:45,116
often at the expense of the story itself i don't think that you did that i think you just wrote a

704
00:52:45,116 --> 00:52:48,796
great story and these things work together naturally but i'd love to understand kind of

705
00:52:48,796 --> 00:52:52,636
your process because i'm sure you were thinking about that i'm sure you were trying to grapple with

706
00:52:52,636 --> 00:52:57,836
those things as you were creating this story you were spot on there that story was first and

707
00:52:57,836 --> 00:53:01,916
foremost literally at every time like every time there was a major decision point in the story

708
00:53:01,916 --> 00:53:06,616
or went into writing the story, it was like, okay, everything that always matters is story first.

709
00:53:06,696 --> 00:53:11,336
It has to have a great story that matters more than anything else. Great story and captivating

710
00:53:11,336 --> 00:53:17,136
top of mind every single minute of writing that thing. Some of those things kind of came out

711
00:53:17,136 --> 00:53:21,436
subconsciously through me. Like these are things that I'm struggling with and thinking through,

712
00:53:21,496 --> 00:53:25,456
and they came out naturally in the book. The theme of violence is high in there as well.

713
00:53:26,176 --> 00:53:30,136
Martial arts, I train in like firearms and other stuff like that. I'm very interested in like these

714
00:53:30,136 --> 00:53:35,216
concepts of like what it means to like defend oneself and like when you should use violence

715
00:53:35,216 --> 00:53:39,276
and that kind of thing and that was definitely a theme but in the sense of like bitcoin it's like

716
00:53:39,276 --> 00:53:46,396
i feel so much like i have two people inside me right like i have represented by a couple

717
00:53:46,396 --> 00:53:51,076
different characters in the book the like i have so much anger towards the way the system currently

718
00:53:51,076 --> 00:53:56,796
works and want that to change like the eric case in style like i just want to hang the political

719
00:53:56,796 --> 00:54:00,756
class and all these things like i have a part of myself that feels that way too but i also have a

720
00:54:00,756 --> 00:54:04,756
part of myself that's like much more pragmatic about the way the world works and how bitcoin

721
00:54:04,756 --> 00:54:10,636
can have a more positive view and a like a more slight roundabout view perhaps and i see that in

722
00:54:10,636 --> 00:54:15,156
a lot of bitcoiners too so it was like i really wanted to explore that and i didn't go into it

723
00:54:15,156 --> 00:54:19,556
thinking like it's gonna the story is gonna interleave in this specific way which the story

724
00:54:19,556 --> 00:54:24,856
eventually kind of comes together right um i didn't have a super concrete plan for that right

725
00:54:24,856 --> 00:54:28,696
away. I just knew I wanted to explore these concepts and kind of see where it took me.

726
00:54:29,216 --> 00:54:34,916
Like, which writing is a weird trip. It's kind of like a self-reflective process. You kind of

727
00:54:34,916 --> 00:54:39,636
like learn about yourself along the way. You sort of like don't know where it's going to take you.

728
00:54:39,636 --> 00:54:44,736
Like I, writing it, like I wrote the last chapters of that when like Bitcoin price was at like under

729
00:54:44,736 --> 00:54:50,856
20K. And I, the very first iteration of it, like it was terrible, but like the, I kind of like found

730
00:54:50,856 --> 00:54:54,836
parts of it in different times. And I was sort of different people back then too. Like you kind

731
00:54:54,836 --> 00:54:59,076
different person every day and like you go over the book and edit it through a lens of like the

732
00:54:59,076 --> 00:55:04,276
different parts of you um and through enough work and just like sitting down and doing lots and lots

733
00:55:04,276 --> 00:55:09,076
of stuff it comes like lots of parts of yourself come out through the story and i definitely think

734
00:55:09,076 --> 00:55:13,396
i had a lot of that formed those things it's maybe not as clear of an answer as you were hoping for

735
00:55:13,396 --> 00:55:19,156
but like that's no no no like writing is very much like it's a scatterbrained thing at least the way

736
00:55:19,156 --> 00:55:22,836
that i do it and there's a lot of different ideas that end up getting melded together just because

737
00:55:22,836 --> 00:55:25,996
because that's who I am. And that just like, well, that's what I wanted to see in a story.

738
00:55:27,036 --> 00:55:31,776
No, I loved it. I think that was very clear as I was reading. And then obviously, you know,

739
00:55:31,816 --> 00:55:36,176
talking to you about it extensively in the process of recording the audiobook, just to make sure that

740
00:55:36,176 --> 00:55:40,736
I was, you know, I was going to understand the characters and the motivations well enough and

741
00:55:40,736 --> 00:55:45,036
everything. It was very clear, though, even just the first time reading it that I was seeing again

742
00:55:45,036 --> 00:55:49,276
without trying to give too much away. You know, a couple of the characters in there very much were

743
00:55:49,276 --> 00:55:55,536
representing sort of two sides of your own experience to different or perhaps the same

744
00:55:55,536 --> 00:56:01,856
ultimate urge but two very different ways of expressing that urge of trying to bring about

745
00:56:01,856 --> 00:56:08,236
the future the reality that you want into very very different sides of the spectrum in terms of

746
00:56:08,236 --> 00:56:12,296
how that's approached and I think that that again to your point that is something that as Bitcoiners

747
00:56:12,296 --> 00:56:18,936
I know I personally like I saw my own kind of you know mental struggle in that that thing that we

748
00:56:18,936 --> 00:56:24,056
all go through where it's like you want to and i'm speaking in hypothetical terms here for anything

749
00:56:24,056 --> 00:56:30,896
uh for any of the the censors out there uh who who may want to flag this please don't remove this uh

750
00:56:30,896 --> 00:56:34,556
this is too good a conversation to to rip off but that's why we're doing it on no stir and thank you

751
00:56:34,556 --> 00:56:38,656
to everybody who has zapped this already uh in the live stream on no stir appreciate you all very much

752
00:56:38,656 --> 00:56:46,056
but that struggle of i want to fucking burn this thing down and what rises from the ashes we will

753
00:56:46,056 --> 00:56:51,736
will be so much better and more glorious and more more fair and more true and more honest

754
00:56:51,736 --> 00:56:58,936
and then also like boy if we burn this motherfucker down a lot of people get hurt along the way and i

755
00:56:58,936 --> 00:57:03,696
also don't want that to happen that's not that there must be a different path there must be a

756
00:57:03,696 --> 00:57:08,476
middle path there must be the path of absolute complete peace you need to you know just

757
00:57:08,476 --> 00:57:14,736
metaphorically burn this thing down and and you know utilize the incredible open source technology

758
00:57:14,736 --> 00:57:18,616
the freedom tech that we have, whether it be Bitcoin or whether it be, you know, NOST or

759
00:57:18,616 --> 00:57:22,096
whether it be different forms of encrypted communication, we need to use those tools.

760
00:57:22,096 --> 00:57:26,016
And that will help us usher in this future, but in a very peaceful way.

761
00:57:26,376 --> 00:57:33,876
But it's like those two ideas so often necessarily come into conflict with each other and with

762
00:57:33,876 --> 00:57:35,316
reality, right?

763
00:57:35,556 --> 00:57:40,176
There's the world as we would like it to go on.

764
00:57:40,236 --> 00:57:42,616
And then there's, you know, there's what actually happens, right?

765
00:57:42,616 --> 00:58:00,576
And so I think that that was just such a, that was a really impactful part of the book was seeing both you as the author, seeing you come through and then realize, yep, I'm seeing a mirror into myself as well. I'm seeing my own experience. I've had these same sorts of conversations with myself or with Carla, with other Bitcoiners.

766
00:58:00,576 --> 00:58:04,036
It is a very, very relatable experience.

767
00:58:04,276 --> 00:58:11,856
And the way that you presented it was through the mindsets of multiple characters, which I thought was a pretty brilliant way to do it.

768
00:58:11,876 --> 00:58:14,496
You didn't try to wrap it all up into one person having a struggle.

769
00:58:14,596 --> 00:58:19,356
No, it was actually the struggle of the characters with themselves, but also with each other.

770
00:58:19,716 --> 00:58:24,796
And I thought that was like, from a literary perspective, I thought that was very, very effective.

771
00:58:25,896 --> 00:58:27,636
Thank you very much, first and foremost.

772
00:58:27,636 --> 00:58:34,476
That was definitely a big challenge of it too, to not be too prescriptive and tell people how to think and just like help the characters guide you, right?

773
00:58:34,736 --> 00:58:40,236
One of the things that was tricky in writing this was like, I did want to write this for the average person who had no interest in Bitcoin.

774
00:58:40,416 --> 00:58:44,136
But like you spend like, I literally spent thousands of hours writing this thing.

775
00:58:44,276 --> 00:58:46,416
Like it was a ton of my life that I threw into this.

776
00:58:46,476 --> 00:58:51,316
I couldn't not have like these deep existential Bitcoin conflicts that like were in my own head come through.

777
00:58:51,736 --> 00:58:55,776
So like there's like a layer that's like right there for anybody.

778
00:58:55,776 --> 00:58:59,176
that's just like it's just a good thriller that you'll read it like maybe you don't like the

779
00:58:59,176 --> 00:59:03,036
bitcoin thing but it's like still going to be good regardless but if you're a bitcoiner there's like

780
00:59:03,036 --> 00:59:07,916
a really really deep level that's running through the whole thing about this constant struggle about

781
00:59:07,916 --> 00:59:13,676
like how revolutionary should we be about this thing and how do we think about that

782
00:59:13,676 --> 00:59:18,516
and some of the trickier parts to sell in the book too are kind of like really like i don't

783
00:59:18,516 --> 00:59:23,456
want to like give too many things away about this but like the best parts of it are things that i

784
00:59:23,456 --> 00:59:29,116
don't want to spoil about it that Bitcoiners are going to adore probably. That's, I mean,

785
00:59:29,136 --> 00:59:33,576
a really difficult line to tread, right? Because you, I know that your goal was to make something

786
00:59:33,576 --> 00:59:41,136
that again, would be approachable to people more so than a nonfiction Bitcoin book. But at the same

787
00:59:41,136 --> 00:59:44,836
time, like, so you don't want to put too much Bitcoin stuff in there to quote, scare them away.

788
00:59:44,836 --> 00:59:50,236
But at the same time, you also want to apply to or appeal to a core audience of Bitcoiners who,

789
00:59:50,236 --> 00:59:54,296
you know are going to read the book and are going to really love and relish those parts that are

790
00:59:54,296 --> 00:59:59,896
about Bitcoin. Was that a pretty difficult balancing act, I imagine? That must have,

791
00:59:59,956 --> 01:00:06,496
I imagine, been a near impossible task. Usually so. It's been relatively successful with that in

792
01:00:06,496 --> 01:00:12,516
mind. I've gotten people that were a Bitcoiner, loved it, then immediately gave it to their mom

793
01:00:12,516 --> 01:00:18,856
or their family member, that sort of thing. One of my favorite ones, their mom read it in

794
01:00:18,856 --> 01:00:23,796
like 32 hours or something like that just like completely and it was asking him all these follow

795
01:00:23,796 --> 01:00:27,276
up questions about like how self-custody works in these things because that's kind of central to how

796
01:00:27,276 --> 01:00:31,776
things play out so like i know this works i literally just had a friend from jujitsu world

797
01:00:31,776 --> 01:00:35,456
reach out to me yesterday being like dude i just finished your book like that was amazing and insane

798
01:00:35,456 --> 01:00:39,356
like he's not like really into the whole bitcoin thing yet but he's like kind of curious now because

799
01:00:39,356 --> 01:00:43,996
of it that's been really interesting too so those i know this has been relatively successful in some

800
01:00:43,996 --> 01:00:50,216
small way but um the yeah like you can't not be a bitcoiner and like want to make something great

801
01:00:50,216 --> 01:00:55,476
for bitcoiners like it was it was just like an impossible thing to not do to some degree it was

802
01:00:55,476 --> 01:00:58,576
just in the same way it was impossible for me to not bring out some of the things that i've been

803
01:00:58,576 --> 01:01:02,196
actively thinking about so much relating to bitcoin in the book it just kind of comes out

804
01:01:02,196 --> 01:01:08,076
through you when you're in the mode of artistic creation can i can i read a couple of uh of

805
01:01:08,076 --> 01:01:12,436
quotes from the book that are not that are not in plot related but i just think are really good

806
01:01:12,436 --> 01:01:16,676
lines if you're okay with it like there are no spoilers here but but just there there's one these

807
01:01:16,676 --> 01:01:23,156
are ones that i jotted down as i was going through and recording the audiobook uh and i just like

808
01:01:23,156 --> 01:01:28,756
they were ones that really jumped out at me uh so i'll read a couple for folks and hopefully it peaks

809
01:01:28,756 --> 01:01:33,236
uh someone's interest out there because these were ones that when i was reading i was like damn that's

810
01:01:33,236 --> 01:01:39,396
like that's a that's a banger of a line so uh starting out um from harold's vantage point the

811
01:01:39,396 --> 01:01:41,596
The financial system probably seemed fine.

812
01:01:42,096 --> 01:01:44,556
Why question a machine designed to serve you?

813
01:01:45,156 --> 01:01:49,416
Most rich CEOs never bothered to understand Bitcoin because it didn't affect them.

814
01:01:49,716 --> 01:01:54,756
I think that's just a really like a simple statement, but it's actually what we see playing out here right now.

815
01:01:55,296 --> 01:02:00,276
The next one here, the wealth of generations was embedded in her brain.

816
01:02:00,276 --> 01:02:06,816
I thought that that's a very poetic way of talking about self-custody right there.

817
01:02:06,816 --> 01:02:13,376
Investors lined up to hand them free money during capital raises.

818
01:02:13,376 --> 01:02:16,636
Politicians on the other hand couldn't fathom why the people they governed would turn to

819
01:02:16,636 --> 01:02:18,636
Bitcoin.

820
01:02:18,636 --> 01:02:22,316
When you control the money printer you can't imagine a world without it.

821
01:02:22,316 --> 01:02:37,574
Alan was just like chef kiss Let see The duty of a true patriot is to protect his country from its government That one I was like fuck yeah Damn right The American spirit wasn born a bureaucracy It was

822
01:02:37,574 --> 01:02:43,934
forged in rebellion. Again, just beautiful. Liberty is wasted if it's not used to make hard choices.

823
01:02:44,794 --> 01:02:49,594
Again, those are a few in a row where I was just like, man, those are very profound statements and

824
01:02:49,594 --> 01:02:53,274
ones that kind of like, you get the goosebump moment when you're reading and you're like,

825
01:02:53,274 --> 01:03:01,034
god damn right that yes yes i got a couple more here uh no spoilers again i promise uh let's see

826
01:03:01,034 --> 01:03:09,534
uh this one was is just frustrating but also just very true the average person doesn't care if the

827
01:03:09,534 --> 01:03:15,094
financial system is designed to make them poor even when presented with a way to escape from

828
01:03:15,094 --> 01:03:21,494
the system they'll come up with every excuse not to learn about it that one was just like the way

829
01:03:21,494 --> 01:03:25,914
you put that because because that's the frustrating thing i think for so many bitcoiners right is we

830
01:03:25,914 --> 01:03:30,474
feel like we're shouting it from the mountaintop we're trying we want people to know maybe we're

831
01:03:30,474 --> 01:03:33,894
not always the best at delivering that message right but there's a lot of us delivering in

832
01:03:33,894 --> 01:03:41,594
different ways and that message does get out there and yet this escape hatch exists this lifeboat

833
01:03:41,594 --> 01:03:47,814
exists but people really that that way you phrase that they'll come up with every excuse not to use

834
01:03:47,814 --> 01:03:55,354
it was just like, uh, yes, but, but, but why is it because people just, the part of it is just like

835
01:03:55,354 --> 01:04:00,214
almost, uh, being obsessed with one's own suffering or not wanting to perhaps not wanting

836
01:04:00,214 --> 01:04:05,634
to accept that there could be a way out just because this is, you know, this is the water

837
01:04:05,634 --> 01:04:10,374
you've been swimming in. You just, you just don't know any better. I don't know, but I'd love to hear

838
01:04:10,374 --> 01:04:14,454
your thoughts on that. Cause that one, I was just like, yup, that is the experience of basically

839
01:04:14,454 --> 01:04:19,094
every bitcoiner trying to talk to people about why bitcoin is important and they should you know

840
01:04:19,094 --> 01:04:26,254
adopt it but uh that one hurts a little bit because it's like i in writing the book like

841
01:04:26,254 --> 01:04:30,154
the goal is to convey this concept to people right but like at the same time i know it's not going to

842
01:04:30,154 --> 01:04:36,314
be successful in every way because like we all failed to do so so many times yeah there there's

843
01:04:36,314 --> 01:04:42,074
a lot there in like the one thank you so much those were amazing hearing you read them once more

844
01:04:42,074 --> 01:04:46,594
a couple of them i cannot take credit for though it was other characters quoting famous american

845
01:04:46,594 --> 01:04:52,554
yeah but still important like important parts that were like oh yeah that's i'm glad you included

846
01:04:52,554 --> 01:05:00,294
that you know yeah but the it's a hard thing like the amount of concern that's out there around

847
01:05:00,294 --> 01:05:06,114
bitcoin from people like the what do i say bitcoin like there's so much embedded in those

848
01:05:06,114 --> 01:05:11,794
in the word bitcoin for me like it's hard to not see the world when you understand bitcoin to this

849
01:05:11,794 --> 01:05:16,074
degree it's like the i'm blanking on the word for it right now but like there's a kind of like bias

850
01:05:16,074 --> 01:05:22,694
that one has once you've been doing something a long time oh man it doesn't matter the um

851
01:05:22,694 --> 01:05:27,654
it's just impossible to convey all the things that you know about bitcoin to other people so

852
01:05:27,654 --> 01:05:31,314
like having different perspectives like one of the reasons i did that in the story was just to

853
01:05:31,314 --> 01:05:35,974
like try different angles but i think like a framing that i've been thinking about a lot more

854
01:05:35,974 --> 01:05:42,094
recently is that sometimes it's just about taking shots on goal like i got exposed to bitcoin a few

855
01:05:42,094 --> 01:05:46,614
different times from different people and totally ignored it as many people do i think when they

856
01:05:46,614 --> 01:05:52,954
come to bitcoin initially yep yep we pretty much all do this and that can be heartbreaking if you

857
01:05:52,954 --> 01:05:56,294
have somebody you love that you're trying to convey these concepts to i've given my book to

858
01:05:56,294 --> 01:05:59,334
people who probably still haven't read it because they're like family members or close people that

859
01:05:59,334 --> 01:06:03,314
i just like wanted to make sure i put this in front of them and it hurts when it's not going

860
01:06:03,314 --> 01:06:07,874
to work to actually orange pull them. But I think a more constructive way to think about it is be

861
01:06:07,874 --> 01:06:11,174
like, all right, well, it took me a bunch of exposures. It's going to probably take other

862
01:06:11,174 --> 01:06:16,194
people a bunch of exposures too. Like just because I threw something out there, put a book in front

863
01:06:16,194 --> 01:06:19,894
of them or mentioned Bitcoin to them, like, and they just totally shrugged it off. Just because

864
01:06:19,894 --> 01:06:23,614
it failed in that single instance and in that moment doesn't mean it was a failure because you

865
01:06:23,614 --> 01:06:28,574
could be that second touch point and they needed five or they needed six touch points. And there

866
01:06:28,574 --> 01:06:33,574
was still something worth doing in providing those touch points, even if it wasn't the thing

867
01:06:33,574 --> 01:06:37,154
that ultimately orange-pilled them in that moment, it still is part of their journey,

868
01:06:37,254 --> 01:06:42,174
potentially. And I think to get more comfortable with that, you're not going to go in front of

869
01:06:42,174 --> 01:06:45,734
somebody and immediately orange-pilled them. Despite my desire to, I'm not just going to be

870
01:06:45,734 --> 01:06:48,754
able to give my book to people and immediately they're going to be a Bitcoin maxi overnight.

871
01:06:49,594 --> 01:06:53,534
Maybe have a little bit of success with a couple, but overall, it probably ain't going to happen.

872
01:06:54,234 --> 01:06:57,474
But I think it's a more constructive mindset to have to be like, all right, well, at least I'm

873
01:06:57,474 --> 01:07:01,894
making positive movement towards this thing and helping in some really, really, really small way

874
01:07:01,894 --> 01:07:07,934
to spread this really great message. I like that framing a lot. And that's absolutely the way I've

875
01:07:07,934 --> 01:07:12,294
kind of come around to thinking of it too, because I myself, as you were describing that,

876
01:07:12,334 --> 01:07:17,954
I'm thinking about my own journey. I've ignored Bitcoin still to this day. The time I spent

877
01:07:17,954 --> 01:07:24,754
ignoring Bitcoin, as in I heard about Bitcoin and then from first hearing about it, hearing about it

878
01:07:24,754 --> 01:07:28,514
multiple times since then, and then finally getting some sats.

879
01:07:28,974 --> 01:07:31,254
That time is greater than the time I've been holding Bitcoin.

880
01:07:32,034 --> 01:07:34,214
I heard about Bitcoin in 2014.

881
01:07:35,114 --> 01:07:38,214
Buddy was acquiring some things off the Silk Road.

882
01:07:39,434 --> 01:07:41,954
Asked me, Walker, have you heard about this Bitcoin?

883
01:07:41,974 --> 01:07:42,774
You're an engineer.

884
01:07:42,974 --> 01:07:44,494
Have you heard about this Bitcoin thing?

885
01:07:44,674 --> 01:07:45,134
You know, whatever.

886
01:07:45,234 --> 01:07:47,134
I'm like, no, I haven't, nerd.

887
01:07:47,454 --> 01:07:49,514
Like back to whatever fiat shit I was doing.

888
01:07:50,514 --> 01:07:50,994
Dismissed it.

889
01:07:50,994 --> 01:07:56,774
dismissed it again in 2017 and got a couple of Litecoin because I didn't realize you could buy

890
01:07:56,774 --> 01:08:00,694
fractions of a Bitcoin. So I always have empathy for people who are operating from that perspective,

891
01:08:00,854 --> 01:08:04,374
you know, less excuses to think that way now with all the education that's out there, but still,

892
01:08:04,374 --> 01:08:10,874
I have empathy. But it wasn't until 2020, right? So it took me multiple, multiple instances of

893
01:08:10,874 --> 01:08:17,194
exposure, of hearing about this thing, of ignoring it, essentially, dismissing it, whatever, before I

894
01:08:17,194 --> 01:08:23,594
finally went down the rabbit hole just just a little bit just peeked into it and then got some

895
01:08:23,594 --> 01:08:28,354
sats and that's the that's the start of it all right it's like you you know getting off zero

896
01:08:28,354 --> 01:08:33,874
that's the hardest part once you do that a lot of the rest of it follows because you just naturally

897
01:08:33,874 --> 01:08:37,114
get more curious about this you come for the number go up then you find out about the freedom

898
01:08:37,114 --> 01:08:42,854
go upside of it and it's like holy shit okay this is this is something i didn't even realize existed

899
01:08:42,854 --> 01:08:48,014
a whole new world just opened up to me that I wasn't privy to before. But I think that that

900
01:08:48,014 --> 01:08:52,174
mentality that you described from an, quote, orange pilling perspective, it's like the term

901
01:08:52,174 --> 01:08:58,014
orange, but like it is a good term. And it's has a lot of mimetic power. That being said, it's,

902
01:08:58,054 --> 01:09:04,074
it's almost a little bit like you can't give anyone you can give some the orange pill,

903
01:09:04,174 --> 01:09:09,194
you can't make them take it, right? That step, it has to be somebody willingly taking it. Like,

904
01:09:09,194 --> 01:09:13,294
you know i know there's the like the max guy they joke too and they love max like the you know the

905
01:09:13,294 --> 01:09:17,654
orange pill now or the orange depository later like and which is hilarious but really you do have

906
01:09:17,654 --> 01:09:22,574
to you have to make the decision to study bitcoin yourself you have to make the decision to take the

907
01:09:22,574 --> 01:09:27,574
orange pill yourself nobody can take it for you you can't force anyone to take it but you can just

908
01:09:27,574 --> 01:09:32,254
hey here's this bitcoin thing again presented in a different way and you never know which one of

909
01:09:32,254 --> 01:09:37,454
those interactions that somebody has is going to be the one that finally flips that switch and gets

910
01:09:37,454 --> 01:09:40,974
them to get off zero and to start learning about this thing. And so that's why I think these

911
01:09:40,974 --> 01:09:45,194
different angles, I don't want to say angles of attack, angles of enlightenment, let's say

912
01:09:45,194 --> 01:09:51,994
enlightenment vectors for Bitcoin are so important. And I'm curious too, if, I mean, one, do you think

913
01:09:51,994 --> 01:09:58,274
you'll write more Bitcoin fiction? And then two, do you, do you think there just needs to be more

914
01:09:58,274 --> 01:10:05,854
Bitcoin fiction or Bitcoin tangential fiction broadly? One, yes, I really like writing. I'd

915
01:10:05,854 --> 01:10:10,034
like to do another one yeah it's a very long process though especially the way that same

916
01:10:10,034 --> 01:10:16,394
universe you think or would you okay yeah yeah i've got rough plans for it too but it's yeah

917
01:10:16,394 --> 01:10:22,454
it's been it's a it's a very like arduous thing man like i i really love people um and like writing

918
01:10:22,454 --> 01:10:26,374
just like sitting alone over the chair in the corner of my office over there for like literal

919
01:10:26,374 --> 01:10:32,254
thousands of hours is quite the undertaking it's ai tools have changed the way that writing works

920
01:10:32,254 --> 01:10:37,154
quite a lot. I mentioned I leveraged them even writing the book, but even with that, like,

921
01:10:37,814 --> 01:10:42,454
it's more about like how much love and a piece of your like soul you put into the words. Like,

922
01:10:42,474 --> 01:10:47,134
if there's a way you can leverage that, like, anybody can produce like AI swap these days,

923
01:10:47,134 --> 01:10:51,254
but to like really, the thing that makes people connect with stories is like deep levels of care

924
01:10:51,254 --> 01:10:55,074
for them. So it's a very long-term process. Anyway, I would like to write another one that's

925
01:10:55,074 --> 01:10:58,974
definitely going to happen at some point in time. It just might not be very quick. I have a little

926
01:10:58,974 --> 01:11:02,154
shelf over there behind me, actually. I don't know if you can see, but there's a bunch of Bitcoin

927
01:11:02,154 --> 01:11:05,794
fiction books on there like different levels of india others have written different things in that

928
01:11:05,794 --> 01:11:14,014
realm so it's out there but man like there is it's like it's crazy still like i see people

929
01:11:14,014 --> 01:11:19,074
having things like the there's like a comedy coming out that's like something like satoshi

930
01:11:19,074 --> 01:11:23,614
related or whatever it's going to be terrible probably because it's mainstream like there's

931
01:11:23,614 --> 01:11:28,954
so much of this out there and it's so like if you just bring up the word bitcoin to people in any

932
01:11:28,954 --> 01:11:33,954
kind of fictional realm. Like most of these people are not interested. I've also noticed

933
01:11:33,954 --> 01:11:37,714
like something I did not realize when I was writing and I maybe was overly optimistic about

934
01:11:37,714 --> 01:11:42,114
was like the average fiction reader has a very different perspective of the world than the

935
01:11:42,114 --> 01:11:45,574
average Bitcoin person. I figured this out the hard way when writing my first book too,

936
01:11:45,634 --> 01:11:51,154
where I got a little bit canceled because of some of my like optimism around neurological diversity.

937
01:11:51,694 --> 01:11:57,854
But a lot of people use fiction as an escape tool. They're not wanting to challenge beliefs.

938
01:11:57,854 --> 01:12:02,394
They're not wanting to be told that like technology actually is like this abundant creating thing for humanity.

939
01:12:02,754 --> 01:12:06,774
So there's some very challenging things to put in front of fiction readers and have them just devour.

940
01:12:07,054 --> 01:12:13,534
Like if they if you can like persuade them and say the book was really good or whatever, like it's one way to get them.

941
01:12:13,674 --> 01:12:24,874
But in general, the market for fiction is so overpowered by like romance fantasy stuff that people are just hoping to use to escape into magical worlds and these kind of things where it's a different tool.

942
01:12:24,874 --> 01:12:26,934
and it's great for conveying things.

943
01:12:27,254 --> 01:12:29,754
And like me being more engineering brained,

944
01:12:29,854 --> 01:12:31,454
like I've had a bad habit in the past

945
01:12:31,454 --> 01:12:33,334
of trying to convey really technical concepts

946
01:12:33,334 --> 01:12:34,814
like Bitcoin in logical ways to people.

947
01:12:35,034 --> 01:12:36,774
So doing it from a more emotional angle

948
01:12:36,774 --> 01:12:38,174
is oftentimes more successful.

949
01:12:38,314 --> 01:12:39,934
And I think books are a really good way to do that.

950
01:12:40,034 --> 01:12:42,414
But the cohort that is reading books

951
01:12:42,414 --> 01:12:46,394
are very much less likely to be optimistic around technology

952
01:12:46,394 --> 01:12:48,994
or interested in like things like Bitcoin, unfortunately.

953
01:12:49,814 --> 01:12:52,674
So it's still a really good tool,

954
01:12:52,814 --> 01:12:54,714
but it's kind of tricky to get them to read it over there

955
01:12:54,714 --> 01:13:01,794
like dragon smut books i yeah i've seen like a couple of memes about this that i had to like

956
01:13:01,794 --> 01:13:09,594
actually check if like the book existed like there is just so much yeah weird yeah weird fantasy smut

957
01:13:09,594 --> 01:13:14,334
out there i mean maybe that's maybe that's you know your next book just just turn it out just

958
01:13:14,334 --> 01:13:19,594
real sloppy real smutty you know a little a little who's writing bitcoin smut that's the

959
01:13:19,594 --> 01:13:26,374
real question uh mags has got plans apparently okay oh boy here we go um oh that's that is

960
01:13:26,374 --> 01:13:32,814
interesting though but it's also interesting because i'm somebody who i uh i've loved fantasy

961
01:13:32,814 --> 01:13:38,094
and science fiction generally for uh for a long time i took kind of a break from it actually from

962
01:13:38,094 --> 01:13:43,414
reading it when i got into bitcoin when i started going down the rabbit hole just because i felt

963
01:13:43,414 --> 01:13:48,174
like anything i wasn't anything that i would be reading that was fiction would somehow be like a

964
01:13:48,174 --> 01:13:51,834
waste i literally thought like this will somehow be a waste of my time because like i should be

965
01:13:51,834 --> 01:13:54,934
reading more austrian economics i should be reading more i should be reading more you know

966
01:13:54,934 --> 01:14:00,154
philosophical texts i should you know i'll read anything but fiction and you kind of get burned

967
01:14:00,154 --> 01:14:04,634
out on some of that after like a little while without like a little bit of fiction and it was

968
01:14:04,634 --> 01:14:11,674
it was devon erickson's book theft of fire it sort of reignited that love for well in this case you

969
01:14:11,674 --> 01:14:17,354
know hard sci-fi but just fiction more broadly and Lynn Alden's given some

970
01:14:17,354 --> 01:14:21,754
really great recommendations on other more fantasy side things and sci-fi but

971
01:14:21,754 --> 01:14:25,354
like you know the Mistborn, Brandon Sanderson, awesome if you haven't read

972
01:14:25,354 --> 01:14:29,394
Mistborn, it's a killer trilogy go check it out and also the Stormlight Archive

973
01:14:29,394 --> 01:14:33,694
and just recently I'm doing the audio listening the audiobook right now for

974
01:14:33,694 --> 01:14:37,914
just finished Hyperion and now I'm on the fall of Hyperion which I don't know

975
01:14:37,914 --> 01:14:42,734
if you've done it dan simmons it's it's a really good uh good audiobooks um also just a fascinating

976
01:14:42,734 --> 01:14:49,774
story written in 89 and the way he talks about ai and the the multi-planetary future and all these

977
01:14:49,774 --> 01:14:55,654
things are like super it's super wild when you read that like or like snow crash is another great

978
01:14:55,654 --> 01:15:00,434
one i hadn't done snow crash before that's a solid audiobook as well uh that's like in front of those

979
01:15:00,434 --> 01:15:02,974
that don't know like that's where the metaverse comes from i'm also pretty sure that's where

980
01:15:02,974 --> 01:15:06,794
bellagy's network state theory basically comes from because he's basically describing a more

981
01:15:06,794 --> 01:15:14,154
utopic version of snow crash. But anyway, my point being in all of this, there's like science

982
01:15:14,154 --> 01:15:22,434
fiction generally makes me really optimistic. And fiction more broadly, I think good fiction

983
01:15:22,434 --> 01:15:27,694
should actually like it's a great teacher. It's a great teacher. It's a great vehicle for self

984
01:15:27,694 --> 01:15:32,554
reflection as well. And it's interesting to me that the experience that you see with a lot of,

985
01:15:32,554 --> 01:15:37,814
let's say the average fiction reader, is that they're not looking at things in this optimistic

986
01:15:37,814 --> 01:15:42,554
way, that they're not looking, you know, that it's all, you know, doom and gloom, essentially.

987
01:15:42,774 --> 01:15:49,534
And I'm just kind of, you know, maybe that's just also, I don't know if it's what they're reading,

988
01:15:49,794 --> 01:15:54,534
or if it's they're searching for things because of their own state, they're searching for things

989
01:15:54,534 --> 01:15:58,414
that will reinforce that state. Does that make sense? Like, what comes first? You know what I

990
01:15:58,414 --> 01:16:04,334
mean? Yeah. A couple of things there. One of the most interesting dynamics of fiction, in my

991
01:16:04,334 --> 01:16:08,774
opinion, is like the ability to ride around in another person's head. Like that doesn't really

992
01:16:08,774 --> 01:16:14,474
exist in any other format. Like I am a huge podcast consumer, but even if I'm listening to

993
01:16:14,474 --> 01:16:19,214
podcasts, it's like not in my own head. If you're a literally reading fiction, if you are, as you

994
01:16:19,214 --> 01:16:23,594
read the character's thoughts, they're like going through your mind and something about that makes

995
01:16:23,594 --> 01:16:27,734
you think like that person. And fiction does that in a really creative way because you're like

996
01:16:27,734 --> 01:16:32,754
literally in their thoughts so like it lets you like really play with ideas in a way that's almost

997
01:16:32,754 --> 01:16:35,834
impossible to play with other domains which is one of the reasons it attracted me to that in the

998
01:16:35,834 --> 01:16:40,594
first place second thing there was i'm a huge brandon sanderson fan as well miss born is one

999
01:16:40,594 --> 01:16:44,474
of my all-time favorite books that all of his stuff's good but miss born was like the magic

1000
01:16:44,474 --> 01:16:48,574
system and that was like one of the best ever magic systems super cool it's literally the coolest

1001
01:16:48,574 --> 01:16:52,294
magic system ever created in fiction if you haven't read that yet really cool especially if you have

1002
01:16:52,294 --> 01:16:55,694
more of like a problem solving brain and you're not a big fiction person that might be one of the

1003
01:16:55,694 --> 01:17:00,454
best ones because the way he does magic is hyper logical and you get to see how he thinks through

1004
01:17:00,454 --> 01:17:06,174
stuff it's just brilliant uh i've not read hyperion that's on my list now for sure what was the third

1005
01:17:06,174 --> 01:17:11,894
question uh the uh third question uh just i i guess generally like what what what comes first

1006
01:17:11,894 --> 01:17:18,474
in terms of the the do people seek out things that just reinforce their own mental state and mood

1007
01:17:18,474 --> 01:17:23,154
for the most part when it comes from a fiction reader or fiction listener perspective or do you

1008
01:17:23,154 --> 01:17:28,474
think a lot of it is just driven by the type of content that is content the contemporary content

1009
01:17:28,474 --> 01:17:33,834
that is out there like you know because again I read science fiction like and it like makes me

1010
01:17:33,834 --> 01:17:37,794
hopeful and interested about the future and gets me thinking about all the even if they're talking

1011
01:17:37,794 --> 01:17:43,294
about dark things that are happening in a potential future it's like just the the act of talking about

1012
01:17:43,294 --> 01:17:48,634
it it opens you up to so many possibilities do you know what I mean yeah for sure the I think it's

1013
01:17:48,634 --> 01:17:54,054
like a multivariate thing where like there's a there's there's a really bad industrial complex

1014
01:17:54,054 --> 01:18:00,294
around fiction in general um couple things there like i'm going to take it as slightly derailment

1015
01:18:00,294 --> 01:18:04,814
but like i used to ask friends questions about the world like what percentage of people do you

1016
01:18:04,814 --> 01:18:09,354
think are this thing or this thing like see what they said because a lot of the narratives that

1017
01:18:09,354 --> 01:18:13,734
come out of hollywood are disproportionately making you think the entire world thinks and

1018
01:18:13,734 --> 01:18:19,754
believes that thing because the vast majority of our fiction is produced in Hollywood. And Hollywood

1019
01:18:19,754 --> 01:18:23,674
is not representative of me. It's not representative of the average person in the world. If you live

1020
01:18:23,674 --> 01:18:29,354
anywhere else, it's not Hollywood. And I think like that is a really toxic thing where this really

1021
01:18:29,354 --> 01:18:33,994
small group of relatively extremist people are like exporting their belief system on the rest

1022
01:18:33,994 --> 01:18:38,594
of the world. I really resent that that's the way it works right now. And I wish there'd be a little

1023
01:18:38,594 --> 01:18:44,094
bit better free market of ideas and creating the stories like like right now oftentimes the best

1024
01:18:44,094 --> 01:18:48,774
story does not rise to the top and then become the thing that gets made into a movie instead

1025
01:18:48,774 --> 01:18:52,434
places like netflix will do a bunch of market research and figure out what things they're going

1026
01:18:52,434 --> 01:18:57,294
to like get money for and they'll make another christmas movie my wife loves them they're good

1027
01:18:57,294 --> 01:19:01,914
like i they're they may be one to heart a little bit but they're not the kind of story that i crave

1028
01:19:01,914 --> 01:19:06,294
like i i like really like these like deep ones and then you think in different ways and like i feel

1029
01:19:06,294 --> 01:19:10,374
like I've changed a little bit as a person having read them. Like that's what I want more of.

1030
01:19:10,734 --> 01:19:14,414
And it's out there. Like there's amazing books that have been written, but a lot of the way the

1031
01:19:14,414 --> 01:19:20,114
market is currently structured around fiction is very fiat. It's, it's really a toxic thing.

1032
01:19:20,634 --> 01:19:25,374
Like I don't, I don't totally write off the people that read smut either. Like I, I think like

1033
01:19:25,374 --> 01:19:30,634
there are really great stories out there as much as I like poke fun at them and criticize them.

1034
01:19:30,634 --> 01:19:35,114
And like these other like more escapist styles of fiction writing, like even Brandon Sanderson,

1035
01:19:35,114 --> 01:19:36,674
who I mentioned that I really love,

1036
01:19:36,814 --> 01:19:38,454
like a lot of people like to read that

1037
01:19:38,454 --> 01:19:39,874
to go into a fictional world

1038
01:19:39,874 --> 01:19:41,474
and like not have to deal with the problems

1039
01:19:41,474 --> 01:19:42,074
of the day-to-day.

1040
01:19:42,394 --> 01:19:44,354
I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that.

1041
01:19:45,034 --> 01:19:46,934
It's just kind of a different preferences with reading.

1042
01:19:47,994 --> 01:19:49,434
I feel like it's kind of a,

1043
01:19:49,934 --> 01:19:50,734
if that's all you do,

1044
01:19:50,774 --> 01:19:52,174
it might be a little bit of a fiat thing,

1045
01:19:52,274 --> 01:19:54,374
but I know people directly that exclusively read

1046
01:19:54,374 --> 01:19:55,234
these like fantasy books

1047
01:19:55,234 --> 01:19:56,814
as a way to escape problems in their own life.

1048
01:19:57,214 --> 01:19:58,534
I think that's a really big problem.

1049
01:19:58,974 --> 01:20:00,754
So I think it's kind of like both of those things

1050
01:20:00,754 --> 01:20:01,834
acting at one time.

1051
01:20:02,074 --> 01:20:03,094
I'm the same person.

1052
01:20:03,754 --> 01:20:04,974
The market caters to it

1053
01:20:04,974 --> 01:20:05,674
because people want it.

1054
01:20:05,774 --> 01:20:08,934
It's downstream of how badly the average person's maybe doing.

1055
01:20:09,954 --> 01:20:12,474
But there's still amazing books out there at the same time.

1056
01:20:12,514 --> 01:20:14,414
It's like one of these whole, like, the future's here.

1057
01:20:14,514 --> 01:20:18,194
It's just not evenly distributed dynamic where, like, both of these things exist.

1058
01:20:18,294 --> 01:20:23,874
There's amazing books out there that people just, like, don't read as much as they maybe should or like.

1059
01:20:24,114 --> 01:20:26,854
They're kind of unknown relative to how amazing they are.

1060
01:20:26,954 --> 01:20:30,234
Like, that's kind of sad, but it's just the world we live in.

1061
01:20:31,314 --> 01:20:32,674
Yeah, no, it's a fair point.

1062
01:20:32,674 --> 01:20:36,774
another uh let's we can just throw out some recommendations there because another great uh

1063
01:20:36,774 --> 01:20:41,174
first of all blood of the bourgeoisie uh go go check it out um but but even just recommended you

1064
01:20:41,174 --> 01:20:45,314
have you checked out have you done the dungeon crawler carl series you are one of many people

1065
01:20:45,314 --> 01:20:50,854
that's recommended that to me so that's high on the list too lynn recommended it to me uh and i

1066
01:20:50,854 --> 01:20:56,954
was like what dungeon crawler carl like okay what is this but it's it's fantastic um the uh and like

1067
01:20:56,954 --> 01:21:02,994
as somebody who's narrated some audiobooks now, the narrator for it is like the greatest audiobook

1068
01:21:02,994 --> 01:21:10,314
narrator I've ever heard. Like he's incredible on so many different levels, like to a level

1069
01:21:10,314 --> 01:21:18,274
lesser men cannot even fathom. Really great though. And that's a big series. What else are

1070
01:21:18,274 --> 01:21:23,874
you reading anything right now in the fiction space? Do you have any current books open? Any

1071
01:21:23,874 --> 01:21:28,414
books on the shelf waiting to be read? What are you reading right now? I'm really eclectic in my

1072
01:21:28,414 --> 01:21:34,994
reading preferences. And I'm in a weird place right now because I read like crazy. So I read a bunch

1073
01:21:34,994 --> 01:21:39,114
of different genres too in writing Bordeaux de Bourgeoisie. I wanted to have like, I literally

1074
01:21:39,114 --> 01:21:42,654
was reading romance elements because there's like human relationships in that book. And it was my

1075
01:21:42,654 --> 01:21:47,214
worst thing on like early passes is I had like weak relationship building. So I wanted to read

1076
01:21:47,214 --> 01:21:50,334
a bunch of stories in that realm just so I understood that how to write that better.

1077
01:21:50,334 --> 01:21:56,554
all over the place. Some of my favorites and ones that I've read recently are like Boy Crouch. I

1078
01:21:56,554 --> 01:22:00,394
have a shelf over here with a bunch of his books on me. He's a sci-fi author that I, sci-fi and

1079
01:22:00,394 --> 01:22:06,534
thriller author that I really love. Yeah, I actually do have Fourth Wing open right now too,

1080
01:22:06,614 --> 01:22:10,094
which is one of those dragon smut books that my wife was like, you have to read this one.

1081
01:22:10,694 --> 01:22:15,434
Wow. And it's pretty good. She was right so far. I haven't gotten any of the smut parts yet,

1082
01:22:15,434 --> 01:22:18,734
so I can't speak to that. But the actual story in that writing is really, really good.

1083
01:22:18,734 --> 01:22:25,854
um i also have i'm i think i mentioned the very beginning i'm very all over the place like i i'll

1084
01:22:25,854 --> 01:22:29,914
like i'm reading like seven books at a time and i'll like hop around different genres and things

1085
01:22:29,914 --> 01:22:33,534
which is kind of weird and i don't don't know that i would recommend that to anybody unless

1086
01:22:33,534 --> 01:22:37,454
your brain works that way but i got lots of random things open right now across genres and that sort

1087
01:22:37,454 --> 01:22:44,594
of stuff nice i'm gonna uh i'm gonna have to check out blake crouch so he did dark matter is that the

1088
01:22:44,594 --> 01:22:50,414
they made into a show yeah show's okay book's fantastic i saw the first season of the show

1089
01:22:50,414 --> 01:22:56,914
that's why i was asking i i uh i'm interested to check out the book then that's high concept sci-fi

1090
01:22:56,914 --> 01:23:00,514
that moves like a thriller pace like if you couldn't tell one of the moves was yeah i really

1091
01:23:00,514 --> 01:23:06,534
like that like thriller dynamics um for attention reasons like we have in a crazy short attention

1092
01:23:06,534 --> 01:23:12,754
span world right now i think like shorter attention span fiction is uh underexplored and there's a lot

1093
01:23:12,754 --> 01:23:13,754
of it out there.

1094
01:23:13,754 --> 01:23:17,614
But like I think those sorts of things in writing are really powerful and I want more

1095
01:23:17,614 --> 01:23:19,934
of them in like more philosophical.

1096
01:23:19,992 --> 01:23:25,412
genres, I suppose, is a way to put it. I want really deep, deep topics for books to explore,

1097
01:23:25,492 --> 01:23:28,252
but packaged in a way that just makes me cruise through it. And that's kind of hard to find,

1098
01:23:28,312 --> 01:23:32,452
actually. Yeah, no, that's fair. I wouldn't be conscious of your time here because we're

1099
01:23:32,452 --> 01:23:38,792
butting up against it. People should go and get Blood of the Bourgeoisie. You'll learn how to spell

1100
01:23:38,792 --> 01:23:43,612
it in the process of searching for it by Michael Sullivan. Check, get the physical book, get the

1101
01:23:43,612 --> 01:23:49,252
audio book, check it out. I really think, I can guarantee Bitcoiners will like it. Like if you're

1102
01:23:49,252 --> 01:23:53,132
listening to this and you're a Bitcoiner and maybe you haven't picked up a fiction book in a while,

1103
01:23:53,432 --> 01:23:58,952
like go check it out. Give it a try. Like it's a smooth read. You will. It is a page turner as well.

1104
01:23:59,392 --> 01:24:03,372
The character development is great. There's there's a lot of good Bitcoin info in there,

1105
01:24:03,372 --> 01:24:08,792
too, like the way you present it. So I really encourage people to go check that out. Give it

1106
01:24:08,792 --> 01:24:13,192
a shot, especially if you've just been like me. You were stuck in a Austrian economics, you know,

1107
01:24:13,232 --> 01:24:30,888
rabbit hole for for too long and you emerged you know not remembering what fiction was like go give this a try You have my ringing endorsement You had ringing endorsement and you had it before I narrated the audio book as well but now now you got my double endorsement on that Um where else anywhere else you want to send people to uh direct people to anything

1108
01:24:30,888 --> 01:24:35,428
else you're, you're working on that you want to bring attention to, um, let me know. Yeah. Let me

1109
01:24:35,428 --> 01:24:40,808
just say before that, that like Walker's narration of this thing was just like top tier. Like I,

1110
01:24:40,808 --> 01:24:45,148
he absolutely killed it and it's fantastic. There's a reason I reached out to him too. Like

1111
01:24:45,148 --> 01:24:49,448
his alignment with some of the bitcoin ethos that's in the book like just could not have been

1112
01:24:49,448 --> 01:24:54,768
better i again don't want to spoil stuff like there's very much like american central theme

1113
01:24:54,768 --> 01:24:59,528
that's part of the book too that like he was my first and basically only choice for narration so

1114
01:24:59,528 --> 01:25:05,368
if you like walker you're gonna like the book and especially the audiobook uh as for where to send

1115
01:25:05,368 --> 01:25:10,268
people um the best place is usually on x i'm sully michael then like my name michael sullivan but

1116
01:25:10,268 --> 01:25:15,028
inverted i also have a couple links on there to like the book and all the sentiment analysis stuff

1117
01:25:15,028 --> 01:25:27,984
I been doing recently which I just exploring Feel free to shoot me DMs if you have any other things you want to see around that I on Substack too but yeah any of those normal places you can find me and then the books available where books normally are it relatively easy to find as well as you can spell the weird word

1118
01:25:27,984 --> 01:25:34,324
yeah yeah it's it and it is tough to spell michael i appreciate this much anything you want to

1119
01:25:34,324 --> 01:25:38,564
anything else you want to leave folks with anything else before we close out stay bullish y'all

1120
01:25:38,564 --> 01:25:44,604
there we go the sentiment supports it um and we've just added another podcast-based sentiment data

1121
01:25:44,604 --> 01:25:49,804
point to this while also steering the memetic propagation narrative. So you're going to hear

1122
01:25:49,804 --> 01:25:55,464
memetic propagation out there now on the interwebs after this podcast episode, I think. But man,

1123
01:25:55,544 --> 01:25:59,924
appreciate you. Appreciate your time. Go check out Blood of the Bourgeoisie, everyone. Thank you to

1124
01:25:59,924 --> 01:26:04,744
everybody who joined on Noster, this show, live streams on Noster. So if you're not on Noster,

1125
01:26:04,984 --> 01:26:09,064
you won't see the live stream. So go on Noster. And thank you for the zaps, everyone. Michael,

1126
01:26:09,464 --> 01:26:13,164
great chatting with you, man. Good catching up. Hope we can do it. Hope we can do it in person

1127
01:26:13,164 --> 01:26:14,444
at some point soon.

1128
01:26:15,044 --> 01:26:15,604
I love that.

1129
01:26:17,080 --> 01:26:27,120
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin Talk episode of The Bitcoin Podcast.

1130
01:26:27,780 --> 01:26:31,720
Remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you're watching or listening

1131
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:36,040
and share it with your friends, family, and strangers on the internet.

1132
01:26:36,040 --> 01:26:42,740
Find me on Noster at primal.net slash walker and this podcast at primal.net slash titcoin.

1133
01:26:43,320 --> 01:26:46,600
On X, YouTube, and Rumble, just search at Walker America.

1134
01:26:47,080 --> 01:26:51,440
And find this podcast on X and Instagram at titcoinpodcast.

1135
01:26:51,440 --> 01:26:54,120
Head to the show notes to grab sponsor links.

1136
01:26:54,300 --> 01:26:58,940
Head to substack.com slash at Walker America to get episodes emailed to you.

1137
01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:02,720
And head to bitcoinpodcast.net for everything else.

1138
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:06,840
Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant.

1139
01:27:07,340 --> 01:27:12,460
So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to the Bitcoin podcast.

1140
01:27:13,080 --> 01:27:15,500
Until next time, stay free.

1141
01:27:17,080 --> 01:27:17,760
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1142
01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:21,200
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1143
01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:21,520
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