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The dynamic that is emerging right now is we will, anytime you innovate or do something new,

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we will take your Bitcoin and then we will throw it in our strategic reserve.

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There's no law about hiding dollars under your mattress.

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It's a free speech issue. It's a privacy issue.

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They don't want us to have financial freedom.

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Congress needs to pass some things protecting Bitcoin.

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I hate to say it. It has to become like the economic Gaza.

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They're not going to support politicians who go after Bitcoin.

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It's a self-licking ice cream cone.

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Like it exists to grow.

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It's going to grow and grow and get great, great big, like a big old tumor.

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Don't brag too much about how much Bitcoin you have.

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You're going to have people coming after you.

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Greetings and salutations, my fellow plebs.

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My name is Walker, and this is The Bitcoin Podcast.

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Bitcoin continues to make new blocks every 10 minutes,

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and the value of one Bitcoin is still one Bitcoin.

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If you are listening to this right now,

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remember, you're still early.

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This episode is brought to you by Blockware.

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What if you could lower your tax bill

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and stack Bitcoin at the same time?

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Use the code TITCOIN to get $100 off your first miner when using the Blockware marketplace.

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This is not tax advice, so go speak to the team at Blockware to learn more.

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That's mining.blockwarsolutions.com slash TITCOIN.

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Head to the show notes for links to find the show on centralized social media platforms and on Noster,

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or just go directly to bitcoinpodcast.net. You'll find it all there.

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And kind reminder that you can support this show by becoming a paid subscriber on Fountain.

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or don't. Bitcoin doesn't care, but I sure do appreciate it. Without further ado,

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let's get into this Bitcoin talk.

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Angela, great to have you here. I've been looking forward to this for a while. I think it was,

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I'm trying to think what it was that finally reminded me that I needed to have you on this

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show. I believe it was a poem that either you or AI wrote, I'm not sure, perhaps about government

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shutdowns. I'm trying to remember, but it was, it was some sort of a poem or a limerick of sorts

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that where I was like, you know, I should reach out. The night before the shutdown, maybe something,

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something like that. Yes, that, that, that was it. That was it. I appreciated it. And, and yeah,

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I was like, you know what, it's a, it's, it's about time for me to reach out. So thank you for

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coming on here. It's a, it's really a pleasure and an honor to have you on here. You're welcome.

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Thanks for having me. There are a bunch of things I want to talk with you about because you've been

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quite a, came on my radar like a number of years ago. And you've been quite at the center of a lot

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of things, not that you're trying to put yourself at the center, but more so people, you know,

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people have been paying attention to you because you've been getting things done. You've taken a

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very interesting and pragmatic approach, I think, to libertarianism as it relates to the political

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party's activism. And I think obviously gotten some incredible results, like, you know, playing

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basically the key role in getting Ross freed, which was, I think, everybody who is not a complete

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statist cuck believes is an incredible thing. So thank you for that. I mean, maybe, can we just

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maybe start out? How did you actually get into becoming involved politically with the Libertarian

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Party? Like, what was that? I think you were working in law for a number of years. How did

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you actually get into, like, being politically very active, like deciding that you needed to go

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on that path? So first of all, I want to say getting active in the Libertarian Party and

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rising through their ranks is it's actually not that hard. If you have a very high tolerance for

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being like irritated, it's, you know, you just have to like be able to withstand things that

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are annoying. So yeah, my background is, you know, just civil litigation, paralegal. I do a lot of,

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I was, you know, working with attorneys that do constitutional law, especially when it comes to

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real estate and real property, complex business litigation. I don't know, right? Just like

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dealing with lawsuits. I really like lawsuits. I think it's very fun. And I was generally active

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in local politics in the city of LA. So I worked on, I helped this group called Monday Night Mission

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over a decade ago overturn a proposed ban on food, they called it food sharing and public

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rights of way, which is feeding homeless people, which is totally nuts. And that's a whole other

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rabbit hole, right? But, you know, they had this motion that they were going to pass,

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and it was like pretty much in the bag. Everybody was in support of it. And in about eight days,

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we flipped it PR-wise and held a huge protest and smacked it down. And we brought together,

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there were like left-wing anarchist groups, like Food Not Bombs, who I was also involved in a little

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bit, you know, very right-leaning church groups. And it was really fun to like, you know, win,

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win. And there's a lot of issues with the homeless community in LA, but those are not going to be

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solved by telling people you literally can't. It was, the law was so out of control. It was that you

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weren't going to be allowed to have a picnic in the park with your friends. Obviously there were,

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there was going to be selective enforcement, but the way that it was written is you literally

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cannot share food in public, which is just, you know, it's nuts. I'm like, this is not how we

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solve problems. It's typical government, like insanity. So, you know, after that, I worked on

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a number of other issues. I worked on a medical freedom initiative. California has got one of the

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worst medical freedom situations in the country. I worked to try to overturn a ban on religious

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exemptions for vaccines in schools. We pretty much got the number of signatures to do a referendum,

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but that was my first time encountering feds and subterfuge. And it was like hundreds of boxes of

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signatures were stolen. So it was a really eye-opening experience. Yeah. And so after that,

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I started getting involved in the Libertarian Party. And I think I'd gone to a couple of events

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or meetups in 2014, you know, and then I kind of circled back in 2016 and decided to get

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active.

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And it was like a small, scrappy, you know, group of people.

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But I was very interested, you know, I'm like, well, where do the libertarians go?

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And I was like, well, they go to Panera Bread and argue about stuff, but occasionally get

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things done.

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So that was kind of like my very first entry into it.

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Wow.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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I didn't know that Panera was the go-to meeting place of a military party.

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I mean, for that group it was.

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You know, they had a very lively, lively meeting at Panera Bread.

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Just took over half the restaurant.

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Well, you know, I can imagine the rest of the folks there were probably quite confused and maybe alarmed.

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The non-statism happening there.

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That must have been shocking.

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Lots of like a giant horde of people in taxationist theft shirts.

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They're like, what is this?

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I love it.

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I love it. Well, so, okay. So that's interesting. I mean, uh, there's probably a bunch of different

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rabbit holes to go down there. Um, and we can maybe circle back on some, but I wanted to maybe

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ask a little bit too about the whole situation with Ross, because I think this is something

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that was particularly contentious for a lot of folks within the libertarian party. This idea that

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you were somehow, uh, in the libertarian party was somehow, you know, like cow-toeing to Trump

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and trying to, you know, this was like, what are we doing? Putting our, our support behind a, you

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know we should be you know focused on you know the third way but then like it like it worked like

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ross ross you know thank god like ross is free now he's back with his family it's incredible like

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i'm seeing seeing that image of him walking out of the jail holding that little plant was like

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one of the just i mean that must have just been incredible for you for anyone i think but like

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just amazing like just wow but can you can you talk about that a little bit because

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I think this kind of goes to this deeper philosophy that I've seen from from listening to you speak and seeing, you know, a various post that you've had.

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You you have a very pragmatic approach to how you view the role of the like of a third party.

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Can you talk about that a little bit and maybe talk about it first in the context of Ross and getting Ross free and like actually driving some sort of meaningful action?

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Yeah, I mean, it's like you can call it pragmatic.

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It's like the mechanics of it is more like crawling through broken glass to get something done.

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It is it is really challenging to move the needle in libertarian circles.

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So I have a huge appreciation for, you know, libertarian academia.

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You know, like I'm a diehard Mises Institute supporter.

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You know, I chair nationally the Mises Caucus, which is, you know, not officially affiliated, but we were inspired by Ludwig von Mises and all the work done by the Mises Institute.

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But academia doesn't move the needle politically, and it often becomes a circular firing squad.

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And you'll see this academic saying, these guys aren't real libertarians and this isn't that, you know, and this big fight.

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And there's just so much I want to unpack here.

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You know, formerly in the Libertarian Party, there was this group called the Pragmatist Caucus.

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And I thought, well, that's interesting, like, because they're like, liberty doesn't happen overnight.

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And so when I look at what the Pragmatist Caucus is doing, like, they just wanted to take pragmatic positions, not move the needle forward.

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I felt like nobody was really trying to actually advance.

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Like we just want to come up with the best policy position or the best idea or theory. But I'm like, well, why don't we just do the thing? Right. Nobody wants to do the thing. So, you know, I kind of started tinkering, trying things like let's hold a giant anti-war rally with a bunch of like leftists. Right. Because they're the only other people.

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There's a handful of people who are really mad about the United States participation in the Russia-Ukraine war.

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So that was like a big thing, you know.

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And we had some former, you know, Tulsi Gabbard was a speaker there and Ron Paul.

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So I started just kind of trying things, you know, and it would blow things up.

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I'm like, well, why don't we work with this group on candidate support so our candidates can be less cringe, you know.

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People get mad about that.

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so when rick grinnell approached me about donald trump i was very open to the idea because i was

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like i just want to do something i just want to like make it happen so it's like i don't know

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seven in the morning some hour that i'm not awake and it's my i have a i have a two-year-old and he

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you know his entire like life he's he's a late night baby so seven a.m is early for me when you

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have a child who goes to bed at midnight and, you know, wakes up all night to breastfeed.

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So it's like 7 a.m. in the morning, late 2023. And I get this text message from Rick Grinnell

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saying, oh, hey, Angela, my name's Rick. I got your number from some mutual friends.

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I don't know what mutual friends I have with a former acting director of national intelligence.

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so it a little like kind of kind of unnerving right but he like you know we really want to know what the libertarians think about president trump so i had a cup of coffee and composed myself and then i was

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like responded and rick called me and i did this thing that libertarians don't do which is i was

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very diplomatic um and i said you know like it's a you know we have a lot of thoughts um we really

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like that he didn't start any new wars. We weren't really crazy about the drone strikes on General

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Soleimani. You know, different views on borders within the libertarian movement. But, you know,

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we love that he shook things up and we're sympathetic to him that he experienced lawfare

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and we hope he beats it because it's because it's gross and wrong. And so I think I'm losing my

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headphones sorry okay um i think that went over really well right and so rick was like oh let's

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keep talking i'm not on his campaign team but i'm a friend of his you know so so i met with rick

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he like flew down to meet us from wherever i think he lives on a plane i don't think he lives

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in a house i think it just flies all over the place um and and uh we had dinner with him so

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It was very surreal. He was a former ambassador to Germany under President Trump's first administration.

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He's running the Kennedy Center right now, I think, and was like the special diplomat to Venezuela and problem countries in this most recent administration.

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And so we're having we're having dinner with Rick talking about President Trump, me, my husband and my gig.

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He was like a year old at the time, almost a year old.

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Sorry, my cat is just screaming.

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Can you not do that?

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We're in an interview.

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Don't worry.

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Pets are always dark on this show.

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Okay, good.

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Debbie, she's chonky and always hungry.

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Chonky, chonky, spoiled house cats like a lot of libertarians.

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And so anyway, Rick was like, President Trump's going to call you right now.

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So he just called on Rick's phone and Rick just passed the phone to me.

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And I was just like sitting in this just like very like average restaurant.

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in South Austin while Rick Grinnell holds my toddler. And I talked to Donald Trump on the

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phone and I was like, what is my life? You know, it was crazy. And he was really sweet and

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grandfatherly. And he's like, he'd gone through my Twitter and done like at least five minutes

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of research about me, which I thought was very classy. Yeah. And I appreciated. And we just,

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you know, like he was like, I want to get the vote. How do I get the libertarian vote? That

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Joe Jorgensen, she cost me the 2020 election. The Democrats were stealing, but Joe Jorgensen,

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And, you know, he knew all about he was like, she got five percent.

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I was like, no, sir, she did not get five percent.

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But she did cost you the election, probably.

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I was like, Democrats stole from her, too.

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You know, by the way, 40,000 votes of hers, poof, disappeared in Pennsylvania.

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So, you know, basically, I was like, I can't like endorse you, put you on the ballot, make it happen.

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That's just not like it's just not technically possible.

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but um i can help you win the small l libertarian vote like if you want to compete for our votes i

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can show you how to do that policy you know like commitments there's all kinds of things and he was

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like yes yes i want the vote i want the vote let's keep keep talking to rick let's keep let's keep

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talking let's work on it i mean that was the beginning of it right and so you know we continue

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to talk with Rick and we got invited to go down to Mar-a-Lago like just a couple of weeks later.

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And the whole time I'm thinking like, what am I going to ask? You know, and Rick is like,

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the president is a deal maker. He's not a regular politician. You make the biggest ask you can

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and he'll work on it. Maybe he'll, he'll work it down. You'll negotiate it, but don't be afraid to

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make a big ask. So I started thinking, you know, and I'm sure you could figure out what I came up

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with. Yeah. So, you know, I am thinking like, what do the libertarians want to see? Well,

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in the Fed, you know, this and that, all kinds of things, right? But I'm like, well,

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what can the president do? What can he actually just do on his own? And what is going to make

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all the libertarians just go absolutely crazy? And it's got to be, whatever my ask is, it's got

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to be just wrapped in emotional appeal. That is so important. It's got to be like a really good

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return on investment for him. And it's got to just like, it's got to tug on people's heartstrings.

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And I was like, it's free Russell Brick. That's it. Like, that's the ask, you know? And Rick was

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like, make the ask. So, yeah. So I did. Right. You just did you just like come come out with it

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Like right away, did you kind of like warm up the conversation or did he get right into it?

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No, we waited.

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I got to Mar-a-Lago.

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We're having dinner.

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It's like me, Rick, and just a couple of his staffers, trusted people.

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And President Trump was late because he was testifying in a Southern District of New York trial at that moment.

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So he was like 20 minutes late.

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Yeah, it's so surreal.

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And he comes running in and, you know, everybody stands up to meet him.

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And he has such a presence.

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And the first thing he did was actually he apologized for being late.

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And he's like the master of this like side hug.

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If you've ever seen him hug people, it's crazy.

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And so I get like the masterful Trump side hug.

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And he's like, I'm sorry, I'm late.

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I'm late.

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I came straight from trial, but I got a lot to say.

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It's just like from an attorney, from a trial perspective, having a client who will not get off the stand, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I cannot even imagine.

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So we sit down for dinner and we had already ordered because he had texted ahead telling us to order our food.

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So our food comes out and he looks at my.

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It was like a tenderloin or a steak.

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And he's like, send that back.

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It's not done because I'd ordered my food rare.

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And Rick's like, President Trump, it's OK.

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He's like, oh, sorry, sorry.

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You're probably healthier than I am.

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So I got to eat my food.

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Yeah, he ordered his steak well done.

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He ate it with ketchup and he did have a diet coke.

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So that is true.

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I've heard that before.

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That's 100% true, yeah.

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OK.

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He was also very sweet to his wait staff, which I also thought was a very good sign that they were comfortable around him.

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Nobody was tiptoeing around him.

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I was like, this is like a real person, you know.

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We've all been to dinner with someone who's just like tyrannical and horrible to the waitresses.

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It's so uncomfortable.

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It's usually a good sign about a person.

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Yeah, it was a good sign.

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We talked about drug war.

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He's asking my boyfriend, my husband, have you ever smoked weed?

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It's so crazy, you know.

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He's like, it's okay, you can tell me.

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I'm so sorry, I lost a headphone.

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Can you still hear me okay?

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I can still hear you loud and clear.

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Okay, good. I can still hear you. We'll just let that one go.

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Okay.

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So we were talking about that. We were talking about the border crisis.

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Like, oh, you know, maybe drug dealers, death penalty, maybe not such a good idea.

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He was totally open to everything we were saying, which is just totally wild.

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We're talking about how important economics is, the Treasury, foreign policy.

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You know, and we're just kind of like brainstorming.

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Like, I was like, what if you moved marijuana from like class one to class two?

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You know, that won't be quite so controversial with the Republicans, you know, and it would balance out your fentanyl stuff.

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And he's just really open.

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He's like, oh, this, oh, that, you know, what do you think?

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You know, so finally, it's like, what do I do?

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What's the most important thing to get the vote?

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And he wanted to speak at our convention.

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He's like, can you make that happen?

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Can I speak at your national convention?

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and I'm like well that'll be um political suicide for me internally but yeah so that's I wrapped it

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up in a nice little bow I said I think if you come to our convention and you say um you walk

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out on stage and you say you'll free Ross Olbert I think you can come to the convention if you do

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that. And I think that, first of all, everyone's heads will explode. They will all scream.

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They will all vote for you, all the libertarians and the Bitcoiners will vote for you.

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And they'll give you their money. And he went, huh, who's Russ Olbert? I'll do it. I'll walk

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out on stage and I'll say, free Russ Olbert, mic drop. And I just, like, I mean, I had been,

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you know, stressing over this for a few weeks. I'm like praying about it. I'm thinking like,

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I do this. It has to happen because I can't get his hopes up, his mother's hopes up, you know.

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Right.

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I was like tied up and there's just, he's just like, yeah, I'll do it. It's just,

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it was insanity. It was, I didn't even know what to think.

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Just like that.

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Just like that. Just like that.

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And then, I mean, and he actually did do it, right? Like it wasn't, it wasn't bluster. He

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did follow through. And he followed through not just with commuting the sentence, but with a full

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pardon. Was that part of the initial ask or did that happen like later? Was that a surprise?

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That happened four days before the inauguration. So I worked pretty closely with his team.

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You know, I passed them all the work his attorney had done because his attorneys had been,

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you know, for over a decade getting signatures of this person and that person and all this

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advocacy. I passed it all over. You know, we work on this convention poll with the libertarians.

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You know, what are the top issues you want President Trump to talk about? And I'm telling

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everybody, you damn well better vote for Ross Ulbrich on this poll, you know, calling everybody,

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make sure you vote, make sure you vote, please put Ross on, you know, and they're watching it

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and they're listening to me, you know, and some of they met with President Trump met with Lynn,

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his mother. I got her, you know, meetings with other people like, you know,

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Kash Patel's texting me like, we're going to get him out. We're going to get him out. It's crazy,

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right? It's crazy. All these people are like, don't worry, Angela, we're going to do it. We're

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going to do it. And, you know, the election happens. And I mean, I'm feeding them all kinds

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of data on Chase Oliver. I'm like, here's his that's our our libertarian presidential candidate.

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I'm like, here's video of him, you know, in a rainbow cape at Pride Parade, you know,

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screaming that voting and gender are non-binary and like here's some more stuff and here's the you

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know and they're just like oh this is amazing because they were so happy they were so happy

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with chase oliver as the nominee um when i told them that they were like yes i could hear the

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whole room cheer when i was on the phone with their campaign they were just yeah couldn't have

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gone better um and so then you know the election happens and i don't hear from them nearly as much

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for like six weeks because they're busy.

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And I'm just like, oh my gosh, you know,

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am I going to get the BLM treatment?

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Like how Biden, you know, kicked out BLM after he won.

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I'm like, ah.

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And it's like four days before the inauguration,

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which I was going to and, you know,

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had a nice seat before the rain and everything happened.

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I just get this text from someone at the top saying,

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Russell Brick, clemency or full pardon?

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and it's like oh don't mess this up you know i just kind of had to compose myself you know

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and i'm like oh flip pardon please if that's possible thank you so much

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and i followed it up with a message about roger bear because by that time i had started to work

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on that um and they were just like done promises made promises kept it's just like

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so phenomenally classy just a class act the whole way through

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i mean that's it was incredible to see the full pardon because obviously like for those of us on

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the outside i think a lot of us just assume this would be okay ross is free sentence commuted but

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you know maybe the pardon was going to be a bridge too far but to see that go through i think was and

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and like justly deserved right i mean he i i cannot imagine what he and his his family went

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through. And so that must have been just like such a, such a relief. Like what a burden off

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your shoulders. Like it's not just a commutation. Like this is a, this is a presidential pardon.

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Like that's as, that's as good as you could get, you know? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was,

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you know, so like on inauguration day, my phone is just like blowing up. I was, I was like physically

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ill from stress by that time. Um, like having a Crohn's flare, you know, that I hadn't had in a

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few years. Like it was tense, you know, so I'm like, hold up in D.C. waiting, you know, the next day.

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I'm like, it hasn't happened yet. You know, and they're like, don't worry, it's coming. We're just

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a few hours behind on everything. It's like it was kind of like at a conference or at a convention

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when things run late. That's what the inauguration and everything was like, you know. And so right

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when people there was just a crescendo of insanity about it, I'm like, I can't look at the Internet.

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I can't look. You know, I'm being roasted alive. People are like, I lost my bed. He's not going to

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do it you know they're like it's done and i call lynn ulbrick she's on the phone with the president

355
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you know finding out her her son and it was so fast it wasn't like this j6 or drama where they

356
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start moving around and trying to hide him you know the someone on the president's staff calls

357
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the part the calls the prison and they got to do it i think they have like 24 hours to comply but

358
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it's like they expect it within one hour so he was out wow i mean that's just like like still

359
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hearing this now, it's just so surreal.

360
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And I can only imagine even more surreal for you

361
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and for Ross and his family as well.

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I mean but what an incredible saga And it was just it was great to see that actually it was a very heartening moment you know seeing that actually go through that that actually happened And I think it was a great example of a let say a third let say just a third party a third option a third movement being able to move the needle on something that really matters

363
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Like not just matters for Ross and his family, but actually matters in terms of the message that that sends, right?

364
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the message that sends about the fact that he was in prison for so long a double life sentence 40

365
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years plus 40 years without the possibility of parole that he was just absolutely made an example

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of in this insane way when no victims were even named at his trial like that seeing him walk free

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I think just sent a message that like look this stuff matters and you as an individual or as a you

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know not a red or blue team person can move the needle and this kind of brings me back to like the

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the larger idea of, is this how you view, or I should say, how do you view the role of the

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Libertarian Party, whether that's the big L Libertarians or small Libertarians? How do you

371
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view the role of that in terms of actually enacting change? Is it about winning, you know,

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winning the elections and trying to take a big chunk of the vote? Or is it about

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being a credible threat so that you have negotiating power? Do you know what I mean?

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I do. And it's the latter. I mean, I think that we need to play kingmaker. And anybody who wants

375
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to help, by the way, and I have a whole bunch of pardon I'm still working on, you know, go sign up

376
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at lpmesiscaucus.com if you want to actually move the needle. For 50 plus years, the party has been

377
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trying to win elections. They won some in the 80s. There was a whole thing with feds and Soros money

378
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and, you know, that's a whole nother rabbit hole we can get down. The party's just got, like, wrecked.

379
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But beyond that, I just think foundationally, like, the vision wasn't there that was going to

380
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It wasn't going to sustain the party because they didn't plan this thing.

381
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They didn't lay a foundation to enact realistic change, you know.

382
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And so when I came in, I kind of turned everything upside down.

383
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And, like, we can do it.

384
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I tried it.

385
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It can be done.

386
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It can be repeated.

387
00:29:56,365 --> 00:29:57,365
It can be repeated.

388
00:29:57,685 --> 00:30:02,705
We need to kind of lean out of being spoiler, which is what the party is sort of settled into.

389
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that like, oh, well, we just spoil elections. Ha ha ha. This is kind of this like joker,

390
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nihilistic, burn it all down attitude. But then we, you know, you slap the word liberty on it.

391
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Like, oh, because no one passed our purity test. We need to go from spoiler to fixer.

392
00:30:16,805 --> 00:30:21,645
And that's what we did with the Trump campaign. We just want to improve things. We want to make

393
00:30:21,645 --> 00:30:28,325
it better. For our first try, is it 100%? No. President Trump was not running a pure libertarian

394
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campaign. We're not going to get it 100%. There are going to be things that fall through the cracks,

395
00:30:32,405 --> 00:30:36,805
things that blow up. Sometimes those things are out of his hands. Sometimes whatever, you know,

396
00:30:36,865 --> 00:30:43,145
maybe it's not. But the fact that we made any progress on our very first attempt is incredible.

397
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And so I think we need to do this over and over again. Every two years, every four years,

398
00:30:49,545 --> 00:30:55,845
libertarians need to pop up in the election cycle and say, these are our demands. If you can

399
00:30:55,845 --> 00:31:01,105
follow our demands, if you can pledge, if you can do X, Y, Z, make it happen, we're going to

400
00:31:01,105 --> 00:31:05,605
we're going to drop out of the race and we're going to vote for you. And if you don't, you know,

401
00:31:05,645 --> 00:31:11,425
if you put up like a Mitt Romney character, someone that's, you know, like McCain centrist,

402
00:31:11,605 --> 00:31:16,425
you know, neocon stuff, you know, we're going to wreck you. We're going to wreck you in the polls.

403
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But you have to reward them when they do the right thing. And that's how you advance the needle.

404
00:31:23,685 --> 00:31:30,925
And you lose the power to do this, I think, when you give up your ballot access, because people are

405
00:31:30,925 --> 00:31:35,245
like, well, why don't you just join the Republican Party? No, because then we're just, it's just

406
00:31:35,245 --> 00:31:41,405
diluted out, you know, and then we're just 1% of the Republican Party. When we are 1% in the

407
00:31:41,405 --> 00:31:49,585
general election, 1.5%, that makes or breaks the election. And they know that. And that's where

408
00:31:49,585 --> 00:31:54,505
the power is. Hold on to your ballot access. Hold on to your party, you know, registration.

409
00:31:54,505 --> 00:32:00,925
just be willing to, you know, dispense with your vote differently when the time comes.

410
00:32:02,245 --> 00:32:06,385
I think that that's a it's a great approach and doesn't is another part of this thing.

411
00:32:06,445 --> 00:32:13,465
I've heard you talk about a little bit to kind of getting back to that negotiation of trying to say, OK, yeah, like we'll drop out and endorse you, give you the votes.

412
00:32:13,465 --> 00:32:21,705
But also, like, we need to get something for that. You need to put some of our people into cabinet positions or, you know, is that kind of part of the strategy as well?

413
00:32:21,745 --> 00:32:23,785
Absolutely. The other side of this. Absolutely.

414
00:32:23,785 --> 00:32:30,585
So, you know, I'm trying to talk ideas of negotiating on Roger Ver's situation.

415
00:32:31,105 --> 00:32:36,645
And, you know, a lot of that they don't want me to, you know, make public it because it's still little loose ends are being tied up.

416
00:32:37,385 --> 00:32:39,345
But that was a lot of heavy lifting.

417
00:32:39,685 --> 00:32:41,045
It was a lot of heavy lifting.

418
00:32:41,665 --> 00:32:45,305
And, you know, thank you, voting bloc, for existing.

419
00:32:46,705 --> 00:32:49,365
But where was I going with that?

420
00:32:49,705 --> 00:32:50,365
What did you ask?

421
00:32:50,365 --> 00:33:00,505
Just like getting people from, you know, of the Libertarian Party or Libertarian mindset, at least into positions, whether that be in the cabinet or other, you know, other areas.

422
00:33:01,205 --> 00:33:07,705
Here's midterm asks are like, please let our political prisoners go. Right. Please do this. Please do that.

423
00:33:08,705 --> 00:33:14,425
General election presidential year asks. You know, we need to repeat what Kennedy did.

424
00:33:14,425 --> 00:33:33,265
And I worked pretty closely with Robert F. Kennedy Jr. too towards the end because the Libertarian Party entered into what's called a joint fundraising committee with him. He was running as an independent candidate, which meant the donations he could take from individuals were much smaller than a candidate who's running with a national party.

425
00:33:33,265 --> 00:33:58,105
And giving him that donor ability increased his reach and his political power. So he went to the negotiating table with President Trump in a better position than had he been on his own. And so we sort of like boosted him to help him make what he did possible. And we need to repeat that every four years.

426
00:33:58,105 --> 00:34:10,805
So Kennedy goes in and he's like, maybe I'll drop out, you know, and I think that they really were kindred spirits after that assassination attempt with with everything that's gone on in the Kennedy family's legacy, you know.

427
00:34:11,005 --> 00:34:15,745
But it's like, you know, Kennedy's like, these are the things I'm passionate about.

428
00:34:16,285 --> 00:34:19,245
You know, like I'm very upset over all the COVID stuff.

429
00:34:19,345 --> 00:34:19,985
I'm very angry.

430
00:34:20,085 --> 00:34:21,545
I have a very different position than you.

431
00:34:21,965 --> 00:34:26,665
I'm very upset about how wrecked our health is, especially children.

432
00:34:26,665 --> 00:34:53,185
You know, like, I can't just drop out and have no outcome. And people have spent hundreds of millions of dollars to get me to the top. How do we resolve this? You know, Kennedy went in and he got a cabinet position out of it. And he got spots on the transition team. And, you know, Amarillo Spox was on the transition team, his campaign manager. And she was an absolute badass, you know, and she was able to put more people in. Even with HHS running on a skeleton crew.

433
00:34:53,185 --> 00:35:03,845
the thing that happened was not just getting a few spots the tide turned and you know a lot of

434
00:35:03,845 --> 00:35:07,765
people are very upset still about gaza they're very upset about epstein files they're very upset

435
00:35:07,765 --> 00:35:13,185
and i hear you and i don't want to like diminish your concerns but for the first time in history

436
00:35:13,185 --> 00:35:21,005
in i don't know 100 years the the we moved the not just we didn't move the needle we we reversed

437
00:35:21,005 --> 00:35:28,985
course. It's really challenging, you know, to continue to make progress. But we have to keep

438
00:35:28,985 --> 00:35:34,365
doing that. I mean, so now we've reversed the direction of things. So now let's continue to

439
00:35:34,365 --> 00:35:40,985
push, you know, there's a lot, there's just so many things we can do. I would love to, in 2028,

440
00:35:41,745 --> 00:35:49,585
send another Maha person and a Bitcoiner to the White House to negotiate as the Libertarian

441
00:35:49,585 --> 00:35:55,265
presidential and vice presidential candidate. Could you imagine? Hold on to HHS, expand,

442
00:35:55,825 --> 00:36:02,785
no more fights over the CDC director and that kind of nonsense. Have a Bitcoiner there who is making

443
00:36:02,785 --> 00:36:08,965
transition team picks on financial policy. This is the future of the Libertarian Party

444
00:36:08,965 --> 00:36:16,885
and Bitcoiners in our voting bloc. And I don't care about Libertarian Party activism.

445
00:36:16,885 --> 00:36:30,285
That's not important, right? You pop up every two to four years and do this and repeat and repeat and repeat, and we will completely change the course of history because they know. They know that our votes matter.

446
00:36:30,285 --> 00:36:36,165
I think I mean I love that position you're taking on this because again I think that it's

447
00:36:36,165 --> 00:36:41,905
it's just very practical it's about like not how can we virtue signal with purity tests about you

448
00:36:41,905 --> 00:36:46,065
know look at the the sanctity of our positions and yeah none of them ever get implemented and

449
00:36:46,065 --> 00:36:49,865
yeah nobody ever gets into a position where they can meaningfully affect change but hey at least

450
00:36:49,865 --> 00:36:55,045
we passed our own purity test it's like no what can we actually do how can we genuinely move the

451
00:36:55,045 --> 00:37:01,305
needle by getting people in positions where they have actual political power. And you do that by

452
00:37:01,305 --> 00:37:05,725
like, you know, we do have leverage. We have leverage in the sense of, you know, independent,

453
00:37:05,925 --> 00:37:11,465
you know, libertarian or undecided voters who are principled and don't identify with the Coca-Cola,

454
00:37:11,465 --> 00:37:17,425
Pepsi-Cola duopoly, but are willing to, you know, vote with their feet, right? And also who are,

455
00:37:17,845 --> 00:37:22,685
especially, you hinted at this earlier, but just with the Bitcoiner cohort, it's like,

456
00:37:22,685 --> 00:37:28,305
it's a it's a cohort of individuals who have an increasingly significant amount of economic energy

457
00:37:28,305 --> 00:37:33,925
at their disposal this is only going to increase right and so it's like what do you do with that

458
00:37:33,925 --> 00:37:37,185
what do you do with that there are a lot of bitcoiners i know a lot of bitcoiners have been

459
00:37:37,185 --> 00:37:43,105
in a lot longer than i have who are sitting in you know they're they've become quite quite wealthy

460
00:37:43,105 --> 00:37:46,605
now and it's like i don't just want to sit on this i want to do something i just i don't want

461
00:37:46,605 --> 00:37:50,705
to go retire to my citadel and cut myself off from the world i want to try and make the world

462
00:37:50,705 --> 00:37:54,925
a little bit better. I want to actually move the needle. And like, it turns out that money is a

463
00:37:54,925 --> 00:37:58,765
great way to do that. And, but also you have to have the people in the positions that are going

464
00:37:58,765 --> 00:38:05,325
to affect change. And so I, I, I love the approach. And, you know, one of the things that was brought

465
00:38:05,325 --> 00:38:11,285
up over and over when I asked people for questions about this, this interview was the samurai case.

466
00:38:11,285 --> 00:38:15,025
Cause I think this is one of the things that Bitcoiners are really focused on right now,

467
00:38:15,125 --> 00:38:20,245
rightly so, because it's, it's insane on so many levels, right? Can, can we talk about that a

468
00:38:20,245 --> 00:38:25,745
little bit and just kind of your position on it, if you think this is a reasonable one to

469
00:38:25,745 --> 00:38:31,045
potentially get a pardon on at some point or a commutation, because to me, this whole case is

470
00:38:31,045 --> 00:38:37,325
absurd and sets an insane precedent. Like these unlicensed money transmitter laws are just patently

471
00:38:37,325 --> 00:38:41,485
absurd, right? At the end of the day, you're putting people in jail and giving them egregious

472
00:38:41,485 --> 00:38:45,925
fines for writing open source software when they never even handled anyone's funds, right?

473
00:38:45,925 --> 00:38:46,445
Didn't touch it.

474
00:38:46,445 --> 00:38:58,345
Like, this is insane. That is a dangerous, dangerous precedent. Like, where are you at with this right now? Also, what can people actively do at this point to try and help move the needle in this case?

475
00:38:58,725 --> 00:39:16,405
Yes. Okay. So I have been in contact with the administration about it, as well as Roman Storm of Tornado Cash's case, which is basically the same thing, but with Ethereum. There's several cases like this. There's Roman Sterlingov, Bitcoin Fog. I don't even think.

476
00:39:16,445 --> 00:39:22,145
think he I don't even think he created it they just he used it you know and so they accused him

477
00:39:22,145 --> 00:39:25,865
of creating it though or something right yeah they accused him of creating it but they're they're so

478
00:39:25,865 --> 00:39:30,365
bad at what they do they're like well we found one person who used it therefore you must have been

479
00:39:30,365 --> 00:39:34,925
the author of it it's just totally insane he is in prison right now and I think he's got like six

480
00:39:34,925 --> 00:39:44,205
years left so these are these are free speech issues they are privacy issues um there's no law

481
00:39:44,205 --> 00:39:49,005
about, you know, hiding dollars under your mattress.

482
00:39:50,505 --> 00:39:53,065
It's just crazy.

483
00:39:53,585 --> 00:39:55,985
And we're treating Bitcoin

484
00:39:55,985 --> 00:39:58,905
because it's a new emergent technology.

485
00:39:59,225 --> 00:40:00,125
You know, it's new to them.

486
00:40:00,225 --> 00:40:01,325
It's still fairly new.

487
00:40:01,625 --> 00:40:03,425
And they don't fully understand it.

488
00:40:03,505 --> 00:40:05,545
Like they are wigging out over it.

489
00:40:05,785 --> 00:40:07,585
At least the Biden administration was.

490
00:40:07,845 --> 00:40:08,965
You know, President Trump's administration

491
00:40:08,965 --> 00:40:11,485
has been a lot friendlier to it.

492
00:40:11,485 --> 00:40:25,665
And so what I'm trying to convey is, you know, it's a free speech issue. It's a privacy issue. Also, they didn't hurt anyone. They did not take anyone's. They did not do what they were accused of, right?

493
00:40:25,665 --> 00:40:33,905
Right. And if you let this happen, Bitcoiners are not showing up in the midterms.

494
00:40:33,905 --> 00:40:38,385
You know, the other thing that I think is so disturbing about this.

495
00:40:39,225 --> 00:40:46,185
Is that, you know, we're pushing for a Bitcoin strategic reserve, at least a lot of the Bitcoin movement is.

496
00:40:46,185 --> 00:41:00,145
And if we can't fix these cases, the dynamic that is emerging right now is we will anytime you innovate or do something new, we will take your Bitcoin and then we will throw it in our strategic reserve.

497
00:41:00,645 --> 00:41:05,925
And that's not the dynamic that we want, that we want for this.

498
00:41:05,925 --> 00:41:18,525
But I think the administration is there. They're starting to become aware that, like, the Todd Blanch memo, you know, is not it's not being followed.

499
00:41:18,925 --> 00:41:27,365
There are rogue prosecutors and districts like the Southern District of New York that hate President Trump.

500
00:41:27,665 --> 00:41:48,727
They hate the DOJ new leadership They hate us you know and they happy to tap dance on our graves and defy defy you know like they consider themselves as like woke warriors for real justice real truth you know that that they going to defy everything that President Trump and Todd Blanch and Pam Bondi say

501
00:41:48,727 --> 00:41:52,087
So it's a lot to unpack there.

502
00:41:53,567 --> 00:41:56,827
Yeah, I mean, maybe one one point to start on there is this.

503
00:41:57,847 --> 00:42:01,807
This is maybe zooming out a little bit, but this kind of like defy culture, right?

504
00:42:01,807 --> 00:42:07,547
this uh yes because so much of the political is also cultural i think and so much of what moves

505
00:42:07,547 --> 00:42:14,567
the needle politically is ultimately cultural and you see so many of these you know i guess

506
00:42:14,567 --> 00:42:18,967
self-proclaimed activists you know who are who are defying trump or whatever because clearly he's a

507
00:42:18,967 --> 00:42:24,787
democrat democratically elected uh dictator um or so they would have you believe so crazy you know

508
00:42:24,787 --> 00:42:29,148
he's trying to make himself a king apparently um all of these things which is just like it's all

509
00:42:29,148 --> 00:42:34,327
steeped in hyperbole. It's all just really like call out bad things. I'm generally the opinion,

510
00:42:34,407 --> 00:42:38,487
like call out bad things when a politician does bad things. Don't, you don't need to make up bad

511
00:42:38,487 --> 00:42:42,867
things. They do plenty of bad things already. You can, you can, you can find them acknowledge good

512
00:42:42,867 --> 00:42:47,067
things when they do good things, because then they realize that, Oh, people see when I do good

513
00:42:47,067 --> 00:42:53,168
things and those will be rewarded with, you know, public praise. But I mean, where do you think

514
00:42:53,168 --> 00:42:58,407
we're at with just the, let's say the cultural vibe as it relates to the political in the United

515
00:42:58,407 --> 00:43:04,887
States because we are obviously like the duopoly is very strong. We are clearly, uh, you know,

516
00:43:05,107 --> 00:43:09,447
like, I don't know if we're, we've never been more divided, uh, but you know, whatever we're,

517
00:43:09,447 --> 00:43:15,507
we're, we're divided, right? It's a, it's a, it's a forced duopoly. And, and it just feels like

518
00:43:15,507 --> 00:43:21,207
reason is left at the door when it comes to anything my opponent does is automatically bad.

519
00:43:21,447 --> 00:43:26,127
And this, this goes for both sides, right? Like this is a knee jerk reaction to anything. The

520
00:43:26,127 --> 00:43:30,727
other side does. I need to denounce. I need to be against it. It's all this just reactionary,

521
00:43:30,847 --> 00:43:37,127
like binary understanding of what is good and bad. I mean, how do we actually break out of that

522
00:43:37,127 --> 00:43:42,007
cycle? Like is this is the this third influence, this this libertarian third party influence,

523
00:43:42,067 --> 00:43:46,148
what actually allows us to do that? Or are we just kind of screwed and we just kind of trend

524
00:43:46,148 --> 00:43:51,307
towards like alternating extremes as this pendulum just swings back and forth, knocking over

525
00:43:51,307 --> 00:43:56,527
everything in its path. Yeah. I mean, it's, I don't have a perfect answer for this. You know,

526
00:43:56,827 --> 00:44:01,947
I think, I think a lot of it is cultural. I think people have sort of reached a point of fatigue

527
00:44:01,947 --> 00:44:07,447
with, with it, which is good, you know, but like democratic strongholds, they have not reached

528
00:44:07,447 --> 00:44:12,148
fatigue. You know, they want to regroup and find a different way to approach it. And I think that

529
00:44:12,148 --> 00:44:18,547
they learned like gender ideology burned people out and it was like too much. So they're going to

530
00:44:18,547 --> 00:44:23,688
try class warfare again. So, you know, don't brag too much about how much Bitcoin you have.

531
00:44:23,767 --> 00:44:29,127
You're going to have people coming after you. I lost all mine in a boating accident. Yes.

532
00:44:29,127 --> 00:44:32,087
Yes. Very bad boating accident. It's terrible.

533
00:44:33,927 --> 00:44:39,327
You know, I think the reason that the fighting is worse and worse every election cycle is because

534
00:44:39,327 --> 00:44:44,067
more and more is at stake. You know, the more power is consolidated federally,

535
00:44:44,247 --> 00:44:48,287
the more there really is to lose. Like it does matter who the president is.

536
00:44:48,547 --> 00:44:58,327
It does matter. We've seen that. And so until we get to a point where it matters less, I think that we're going to continue to fight over it.

537
00:44:59,287 --> 00:45:08,287
And, you know, I think Bitcoin is one of the things that can, you know, it can alleviate that situation a little bit as long as we keep it in our hands.

538
00:45:09,227 --> 00:45:17,087
Which I think, you know, I think we mostly can do that. I think the way that it's designed, you know, prevents a lot of shenanigans.

539
00:45:17,087 --> 00:45:42,267
But, yeah, like, we just have to have more things like Bitcoin. Like, I can't, I don't really fully know what those technologies are yet. But the more we have them that move our dependency away from a centralized government, the better that we are going to be. And if we can get just normal people to adopt it, you know, they may start to chill out a little bit and become less invested.

540
00:45:42,267 --> 00:45:59,447
I think I fully agree with that. And it's something I've been thinking about and just speaking about a lot lately, which is just this idea that like people forget that the government does not give you rights or give you freedoms, right? You need to take them yourself. Individuals take their freedoms.

541
00:45:59,447 --> 00:46:05,287
and luckily we have these amazing tools at our disposal now like like strong encryption and and

542
00:46:05,287 --> 00:46:10,547
and bitcoin and all and like nostre that we're broadcasting on right now which like nobody can

543
00:46:10,547 --> 00:46:15,747
can shut this down because it's again a decentralized communication protocol you've got cashew which is

544
00:46:15,747 --> 00:46:20,047
built on top of the it's e-cash built on top the lightning network on top of bitcoin and it allows

545
00:46:20,047 --> 00:46:24,287
for near perfect privacy like with trade-offs right it's not bitcoin at its base layer but

546
00:46:24,287 --> 00:46:28,527
the point being we have all these incredible tools at our disposal but people need to use them

547
00:46:28,527 --> 00:46:38,487
You have to use them and you have to be able to actively take that freedom back because otherwise you're just like, if you expect to have any, you need to do something about it.

548
00:46:38,487 --> 00:46:49,188
And I'm curious, too, I think so much of what truly moves the needle happens in a very localized level, but people discount that.

549
00:46:50,027 --> 00:47:02,727
Where are you at in terms of priorities as far as working at the national, federal level versus trying to move the needle at the local level, the state level?

550
00:47:02,967 --> 00:47:07,727
How do you view that and kind of what do you think is the best path there?

551
00:47:07,727 --> 00:47:15,127
I mean, is it obviously like a dual-pronged approach or, you know, is there one that moves the needle more for the average American citizen?

552
00:47:15,967 --> 00:47:17,607
Yeah, I mean, it's a division of labor.

553
00:47:17,887 --> 00:47:23,727
And so with me, with the relationships I've cultivated, I have to keep working at the federal level.

554
00:47:24,447 --> 00:47:29,367
But, you know, like the Mises Caucus is basically focused on local elections.

555
00:47:30,087 --> 00:47:37,407
You know, we want libertarians to, like, run on a race where you could actually win, you know, and where you can make a difference.

556
00:47:37,407 --> 00:47:41,487
So if you're in a small town and your town council has like five people, run.

557
00:47:42,087 --> 00:47:48,787
You know, you can spend $1,000 and maybe win that race because you knocked every door and sent everybody a mailer and did a couple of appearances.

558
00:47:48,967 --> 00:47:49,747
You should do that.

559
00:47:50,668 --> 00:47:56,127
And, you know, when it comes to issues of like affordability, there are so many taxes at the local level.

560
00:47:56,307 --> 00:48:05,707
Like if you can beat those at the local level, if you can get rid of annoying permits that don't let people have like backyard chickens, you know, like if there's no.

561
00:48:05,707 --> 00:48:11,807
and be practical about it by the way you know if your town has no backyard chickens like go ahead

562
00:48:11,807 --> 00:48:16,827
and pass a law that's allowing people to have up to like 20 if you think that'll win as opposed to

563
00:48:16,827 --> 00:48:23,327
like just completely you know all or nothing like you can do things like that um you can get rid of

564
00:48:23,327 --> 00:48:31,527
red light cameras which cause more accidents by the way and then people lose money on like stupid

565
00:48:31,527 --> 00:48:35,827
tickets that they should never be, you know, like, because you didn't come to the camera's

566
00:48:35,827 --> 00:48:38,688
definition of a complete stop when there's nobody in the intersection.

567
00:48:38,967 --> 00:48:40,227
You know, like, there are so many.

568
00:48:40,227 --> 00:48:41,227
Guilty of that many times.

569
00:48:41,387 --> 00:48:41,747
Exactly.

570
00:48:41,907 --> 00:48:42,247
Exactly.

571
00:48:42,427 --> 00:48:42,648
Yeah.

572
00:48:42,727 --> 00:48:44,287
So is literally every human being.

573
00:48:45,627 --> 00:48:50,407
Those are the sort of things that you can change locally, you know, zoning restrictions.

574
00:48:50,607 --> 00:48:51,207
Oh, my gosh.

575
00:48:51,207 --> 00:48:55,767
You know, there are, and then there are times where, like, it's a nuanced situation, but

576
00:48:55,767 --> 00:48:58,067
you would know best because you live in your community.

577
00:48:58,067 --> 00:49:14,307
Maybe you don't want the entire town to turn into renters, you know, and yeah, we're having some problems like that in the city of Boston, Texas, where it's like everybody on the city council is a renter except for like one person.

578
00:49:14,527 --> 00:49:15,067
Can you imagine?

579
00:49:15,247 --> 00:49:21,787
Like we just narrowly defeated a crazy property tax increase of like 30% because nobody owns a home.

580
00:49:21,947 --> 00:49:23,447
So they're like, oh, it won't matter to us.

581
00:49:23,607 --> 00:49:26,267
You know, it's like, yeah.

582
00:49:26,387 --> 00:49:27,247
So you can do a lot.

583
00:49:27,247 --> 00:49:27,747
Yeah.

584
00:49:28,067 --> 00:49:28,787
Go ahead.

585
00:49:29,267 --> 00:49:30,847
You can do a lot at the local level.

586
00:49:31,387 --> 00:49:42,227
And, you know, I think that you should spend more attention at the local level and just pop up once or twice a year to deal with some federal issue.

587
00:49:42,487 --> 00:49:46,107
You know, like if you want to run a spoiler kingmaker candidate, do that.

588
00:49:46,347 --> 00:49:48,067
But don't make it like your life's work.

589
00:49:48,227 --> 00:49:50,227
You know, like that's like a five-month project.

590
00:49:50,227 --> 00:49:52,707
And then go back to your life.

591
00:49:54,587 --> 00:49:56,467
I mean, I think that that's great advice.

592
00:49:56,467 --> 00:50:03,707
And again, people often, for whatever reason, just discount that local power, right?

593
00:50:03,727 --> 00:50:06,987
Even though it's the thing that really does affect your day-to-day life the most.

594
00:50:07,387 --> 00:50:11,168
Like, yes, what happens in the federal government matters, right?

595
00:50:11,567 --> 00:50:13,827
It matters who we happen to be waging war.

596
00:50:13,907 --> 00:50:19,267
I mean, not officially waging war with because we haven't actually, Congress hasn't declared war in a very, very long time.

597
00:50:19,387 --> 00:50:19,688
Quite a while.

598
00:50:19,707 --> 00:50:20,607
It's a whole different story.

599
00:50:20,827 --> 00:50:21,688
Yeah, quite a while.

600
00:50:22,688 --> 00:50:26,087
But what happens in your local community genuinely matters.

601
00:50:26,087 --> 00:50:30,127
and it matters to you and your neighbors and like the people that you're around the most, right?

602
00:50:30,907 --> 00:50:34,827
And you have the best chance of actually, like you said, you might be able to spend a thousand

603
00:50:34,827 --> 00:50:39,187
dollars and maybe do a little bit of targeted social media, you know, advertising and send

604
00:50:39,187 --> 00:50:43,827
out a couple of pamphlets and go shake some hands and, and get yourself elected. And I feel like

605
00:50:43,827 --> 00:50:50,507
that's what, that's what it sort of takes to begin that bottom up approach of reshaping things,

606
00:50:50,507 --> 00:50:54,227
because people also forget that the federal government was never meant to be this big.

607
00:50:54,227 --> 00:51:18,247
It was never, never, ever meant to be this big. Like our founding fathers be rolling over are certainly rolling over in their graves. Yeah. Seeing what's happening now. Do you have any thoughts on on that on just, I guess, ways to meaningfully shrink the federal government? Because it seems that at the at the federal level, no matter which side is in power, they even the, you know, even the, quote, conservatives.

608
00:51:18,247 --> 00:51:22,607
it's like the government just keeps getting bigger and bigger and more bloated.

609
00:51:22,767 --> 00:51:24,987
And even the, you know, the Doge initiatives didn't, I mean,

610
00:51:25,127 --> 00:51:27,148
I think Elon Musk truly tried there.

611
00:51:27,407 --> 00:51:29,727
I think that was very disillusioning for him,

612
00:51:30,148 --> 00:51:33,688
but he couldn't even move the needle with that even after finding all this waste.

613
00:51:34,007 --> 00:51:36,207
You know, what do you think about this?

614
00:51:36,307 --> 00:51:37,168
Is there a way to do it?

615
00:51:37,347 --> 00:51:38,587
They cut like a few hundred.

616
00:51:39,747 --> 00:51:41,027
They cut a few hundred.

617
00:51:42,207 --> 00:51:42,907
Actually, I don't know.

618
00:51:42,947 --> 00:51:44,947
They've cut twice now, so I don't know what the number is.

619
00:51:45,067 --> 00:51:46,767
It's not, I mean, it's not close to.

620
00:51:46,847 --> 00:51:47,087
It's not nothing.

621
00:51:47,087 --> 00:51:59,367
It's not close to a trillion dollars, but it's yeah. Congress is not going to do anything. So Congress, when people are like, I'm writing for Congress, I'm like, oh, that's very cute. Congress is it's not going to happen there.

622
00:51:59,367 --> 00:52:03,767
there are people in the administration right now specifically in the office of management and

623
00:52:03,767 --> 00:52:09,047
budget who are zeroing out that's where usa was killed and so getting people into cabinet positions

624
00:52:09,047 --> 00:52:18,627
who haven't been it's not that everybody is a swamp monster that's not the case but you have

625
00:52:18,627 --> 00:52:25,787
you owe a million people favors and you're just tied up and you become afraid to do something

626
00:52:25,787 --> 00:52:33,327
even if you don't have like an unholy allegiance to Pfizer. You just, you don't have the courage to

627
00:52:33,327 --> 00:52:39,967
do it. So getting people in, like how we got Kennedy in, getting outsiders into cabinet positions,

628
00:52:39,967 --> 00:52:45,907
I think is the best way to do it. And so that's another reason you should do the Kingmaker strategy

629
00:52:45,907 --> 00:52:50,267
because they can slash. And remember, it's our first time, right? So we're not making all the

630
00:52:50,267 --> 00:52:56,947
cuts that we wanted to, but things are getting cut. Like USAID got zeroed out through cabinet

631
00:52:56,947 --> 00:53:02,987
appointees. But beyond that, I mean, beyond government, it's just going to have to be

632
00:53:02,987 --> 00:53:11,027
emergent technologies. Healthcare is one where it can definitely happen. And, you know, like

633
00:53:11,027 --> 00:53:15,787
there's a lot of controversy over wearables and brain computer interfaces, which is this kind of

634
00:53:15,787 --> 00:53:19,027
scary rabbit hole to go down. You look at some of the stuff China's come out and you're like,

635
00:53:19,027 --> 00:53:37,207
But being able to take your health care into your own hands and to understand what's going on with your body and to have affordable treatments and just completely bypass the system, that I think is going to help us.

636
00:53:37,207 --> 00:53:49,927
It can potentially prevent us from flipping to a totally socialized system because when people can't afford health care and they can't afford a place to live, that's where they just tend to go nuts.

637
00:53:52,067 --> 00:54:06,087
If we can continue to make advances there while also maintaining autonomy over our bodies, I think that that will stave off the giant growth of the federal government and all that stuff.

638
00:54:06,087 --> 00:54:10,887
And then obviously housing, you know, you're seeing a lot of pod houses now on Amazon.

639
00:54:12,007 --> 00:54:13,927
It's like a little discouraging.

640
00:54:15,127 --> 00:54:31,307
If we can find some technology where people can just build from the ground up and it's cheaper, like water, sewage, plumbing, all that, if that stuff also becomes more affordable, then I think that will also alleviate some of the pressure right now.

641
00:54:31,307 --> 00:54:35,507
Because like Gen Z, they can't afford homes.

642
00:54:36,087 --> 00:54:44,467
That sucks. That's not that's not good, you know, and so they're going to be incentivized to grow government because that's that's the solution that they see right now.

643
00:54:44,467 --> 00:55:13,607
I think that that's such an important point when it comes to the younger generation is understandably, they don't have any hope for the future because they look at this and they see the boomer who bought their house for two raspberries in the 70s and now it's worth $3 million telling them to just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and just go hand in your resume at the local store and they'll hire you and then you'll work a nine to five job and you'll be able to buy a multimillion dollar house just like I did.

644
00:55:13,607 --> 00:55:29,648
And it's like, no, that's just like, you know, from a, obviously I come at this through a, through a Bitcoin lens and it's like, well, you can't afford anything because the money's broken because we, there was a post on X recently, a guy, some boomer being like, and not all boomers are bad.

645
00:55:29,707 --> 00:55:30,047
I know a lot.

646
00:55:30,090 --> 00:55:34,090
really amazing super-based boomers. There's some really great ones, but this guy happened to be

647
00:55:34,090 --> 00:55:38,290
one of the bad boomers. And it was like, oh, you want to buy a house? Cool, cool. Well, are you

648
00:55:38,290 --> 00:55:43,510
doing, like, enlisted all these different things, right? And the reality is like, that has nothing

649
00:55:43,510 --> 00:55:51,010
to do with you being able to afford a house. We've debased the currency perpetually. And it's like,

650
00:55:51,030 --> 00:55:53,610
what would really move the needle? Like, you want to buy a house? Build a time machine. Go back to

651
00:55:53,610 --> 00:55:58,190
1971. Punch Richard Nixon in the face as he's trying to take us off the gold standard. Better

652
00:55:58,190 --> 00:56:04,210
yet, go back to 1913, make sure you walk into Jekyll Island, you know, and maybe nobody leaves

653
00:56:04,210 --> 00:56:08,370
Jekyll Island, you know, like, I don't know. And maybe that fixes a lot of the problems that we

654
00:56:08,370 --> 00:56:12,570
have right now. Um, I don't know if it's, can be considered a call for violence if I'm talking

655
00:56:12,570 --> 00:56:18,330
about people that are long dead. So yeah, we'll, we'll see. Well, left us, left us talk about going

656
00:56:18,330 --> 00:56:22,330
back in time and killing baby Hitler. So, you know, it's, there you go. So I think I'm clear

657
00:56:22,330 --> 00:56:22,990
on this one, right?

658
00:56:23,870 --> 00:56:24,870
We could also just...

659
00:56:24,870 --> 00:56:26,150
They're understandably frustrated.

660
00:56:27,130 --> 00:56:28,290
You can see why.

661
00:56:28,570 --> 00:56:29,930
They have no prospect of getting ahead.

662
00:56:30,530 --> 00:56:32,930
This is why Bitcoin is a really powerful tool for them.

663
00:56:33,490 --> 00:56:34,610
But the problem is even there,

664
00:56:34,690 --> 00:56:36,210
then they will look at it and say,

665
00:56:36,250 --> 00:56:37,370
well, Bitcoin's at $100,000.

666
00:56:38,590 --> 00:56:40,070
I've already missed the boat there.

667
00:56:40,570 --> 00:56:42,190
You look for more and more destructive

668
00:56:42,190 --> 00:56:44,930
sort of, let's say, gambling schemes

669
00:56:44,930 --> 00:56:47,250
to essentially try and get yourself ahead.

670
00:56:48,090 --> 00:56:49,670
And none of those really work.

671
00:56:49,810 --> 00:56:52,070
Your best bet would be to just try and create value

672
00:56:52,070 --> 00:56:55,410
and focus on your craft and save in Bitcoin because the government's not going to save you.

673
00:56:55,930 --> 00:56:58,630
The monetary system is not going to get any better.

674
00:56:59,010 --> 00:57:03,870
And it's like, you know, maybe if we end the Fed and massively shrink the government

675
00:57:03,870 --> 00:57:07,070
and stop taking so much from people in taxes, you'd have a chance at getting ahead.

676
00:57:07,570 --> 00:57:11,250
But I just don't see the Fed ending or the government shrinking meaningfully anytime soon.

677
00:57:11,930 --> 00:57:13,510
Same. I don't see the Fed ending.

678
00:57:14,170 --> 00:57:19,530
And I think we can put a lot of people in who are passionate about ending the Fed

679
00:57:19,530 --> 00:57:21,630
and they are going to have their hands tied.

680
00:57:22,070 --> 00:57:24,630
And it's not because they're not true believers.

681
00:57:24,990 --> 00:57:30,090
You know, like I know that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. wants COVID shots completely away, gone.

682
00:57:30,370 --> 00:57:32,470
You know, people are screaming in the Maha movement.

683
00:57:32,590 --> 00:57:34,450
Why aren't all the COVID shots just gone?

684
00:57:34,630 --> 00:57:37,270
You know, it's not it's not always that easy.

685
00:57:37,270 --> 00:57:41,530
You know, you make an order, you're like, such and such is illegal.

686
00:57:41,530 --> 00:57:42,050
It's done.

687
00:57:42,190 --> 00:57:47,870
And you get hit with a bunch of lawsuits and regulatory, you know, and you're just like, this is insane.

688
00:57:47,970 --> 00:57:50,210
You know, that's what ending the Fed is like.

689
00:57:50,670 --> 00:57:51,570
I want it ended.

690
00:57:52,070 --> 00:57:56,650
But I just I think it's been designed in a way that we can never push the red button.

691
00:57:56,970 --> 00:57:58,350
You know, the red button is elusive.

692
00:57:58,530 --> 00:58:00,650
It's the princess is always in the next castle.

693
00:58:01,150 --> 00:58:06,190
So we just have to make it like nearly irrelevant, nearly irrelevant.

694
00:58:07,890 --> 00:58:12,310
If you have like almost no money, I would say go get five dollars in Bitcoin.

695
00:58:12,530 --> 00:58:17,830
Like I know it sounds like so silly, but like add five dollars, get a hundred dollars in Bitcoin.

696
00:58:17,830 --> 00:58:22,130
Just add a little bit because it is going to grow.

697
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:23,510
You know, we've seen it.

698
00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:25,130
It'll continue to do that.

699
00:58:26,250 --> 00:58:29,310
And yeah, I think you'll be in a better position.

700
00:58:29,710 --> 00:58:31,170
Like maybe it sounds silly.

701
00:58:32,570 --> 00:58:34,230
I don't think it sounds silly at all.

702
00:58:34,310 --> 00:58:41,130
And, you know, if you I tell people all the time, just just buy a little bit every day or every week.

703
00:58:41,770 --> 00:58:47,530
Like and, you know, if you buy a dollar a day or five dollars a week or whatever it might be, that may not seem like a lot.

704
00:58:47,530 --> 00:58:51,650
but that does move the needle. And again, if you're young, the one thing you have on your side

705
00:58:51,650 --> 00:58:56,750
is you have time on your side, right? And Bitcoin does incredible things if you are patient. And so

706
00:58:56,750 --> 00:59:04,530
that's where I hope that more young people find Bitcoin. A lot of just from my own analytics that

707
00:59:04,530 --> 00:59:10,590
I have in talking to other people who are educators in the Bitcoin space, a lot of the demographic is

708
00:59:10,590 --> 00:59:16,010
like is, you know, I'm a, I'm a millennial, uh, you know, millennials to Gen X to, to early, uh,

709
00:59:16,010 --> 00:59:21,050
boomers. Like that's, it's heavy on the millennials and Gen X side. The Gen Z side is harder to reach,

710
00:59:21,050 --> 00:59:25,070
right? Because like, you know, I'm considered ancient to them already, you know, and like,

711
00:59:25,070 --> 00:59:29,330
I'm not even like so far removed. So like it's, it's that we need, we need more, uh, we need more

712
00:59:29,330 --> 00:59:35,670
Gen Z Bitcoin podcasters, I guess, to step into that role. I think another really important thing

713
00:59:35,670 --> 00:59:41,690
about adopting Bitcoin, even if it's just like a little bit, is it starts to give you a paradigm

714
00:59:41,690 --> 00:59:48,970
shift. And so you're moving your attention away from like being hopeless to being solution

715
00:59:48,970 --> 00:59:56,510
oriented. And you may start to notice other opportunities. Like it's really, it is really

716
00:59:56,510 --> 01:00:05,010
like abysmal and depressing to think like, oh, I'm 26 years old. I went to college. I got a college

717
01:00:05,010 --> 01:00:11,030
job and I live in an urban area where I can only afford a one-bedroom apartment. It's like a pretty

718
01:00:11,030 --> 01:00:17,350
nice apartment, but it's one bedroom. I don't think I could afford to have a stay-at-home wife and a

719
01:00:17,350 --> 01:00:21,870
child, you know, and it's like you have to just like, you have to start to like shift your

720
01:00:21,870 --> 01:00:28,170
perspective in some way, I think, in order to escape that trap. And it's like the first thing

721
01:00:28,170 --> 01:00:32,090
is to just literally look, just like look for something else a different way.

722
01:00:35,010 --> 01:00:39,050
And I think, again, like just having hope goes a long way in this.

723
01:00:39,330 --> 01:00:44,230
If you have no hope, you're not going to work very hard for anything because it's like, well, what's the point?

724
01:00:44,230 --> 01:00:51,250
If you have even a glimmer of hope, then you will work your ass off because that glimmer starts to get brighter and brighter.

725
01:00:51,390 --> 01:00:53,150
But you need to just have that spark.

726
01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:56,510
And I hope that Bitcoin can be that spark for more and more people.

727
01:00:56,510 --> 01:01:04,510
And it's heartening, too, to see things like Square, just like a couple of days ago, made their Square terminals.

728
01:01:04,650 --> 01:01:08,030
Basically, you can accept Bitcoin now, like any of the four million merchants can accept it.

729
01:01:08,130 --> 01:01:11,990
And like Bitcoin as a medium of exchange is also such an important thing.

730
01:01:12,090 --> 01:01:21,410
Just overall, like the freedom to transact being, in my opinion, fundamental in terms of allowing all of our other freedoms to be taken by us.

731
01:01:21,410 --> 01:01:31,490
Like it's really hard to organize and to protest and to pay your phone bill to, you know, use the internet if you don't have money, if your money can be frozen by the state, right?

732
01:01:31,650 --> 01:01:40,110
And so like normalizing Bitcoin as a medium of exchange and as a store of value, but to young people, it's like, man, you can just start accepting Bitcoin for work that you do.

733
01:01:40,190 --> 01:01:43,790
That's the beautiful thing about like the gig economy gets a lot of grief.

734
01:01:44,390 --> 01:01:47,770
But if you do gigs and they're paid in Bitcoin, that's a different story.

735
01:01:47,770 --> 01:01:51,370
Like that's a way to get yourself out of that gig economy eventually.

736
01:01:51,890 --> 01:01:56,230
Yep. Yep. I get paid in Bitcoin. It's really cool. It's really cool.

737
01:01:57,730 --> 01:02:04,410
It's the best. It feels like it should be illegal. But thank goodness they haven't gone that far yet.

738
01:02:04,410 --> 01:02:21,050
Yeah. Yeah. I will continue to fight against that. Trying to get these guys out of prison is like, they're the tip of the spear. You know, they're the tip of the spear. We got to protect them because they're protecting us and they're making all of this possible for us.

739
01:02:21,410 --> 01:02:30,050
So maybe a good opportunity here to just, okay, so you mentioned a few of the cases, the Bitcoin fog, the tornado cash.

740
01:02:30,270 --> 01:02:31,550
We talked about Samurai a little bit.

741
01:02:31,630 --> 01:02:37,330
Are there any other cases right now that you're looking at or that you'd really like to call attention to for people to kind of make some noise about?

742
01:02:37,710 --> 01:02:39,610
Yeah, Ian Freeman is another one.

743
01:02:40,270 --> 01:02:44,850
His website is freeiannow.org, I think.

744
01:02:46,850 --> 01:02:48,650
Yeah, freeiannow.org.

745
01:02:48,650 --> 01:02:55,370
um so ian freeman ran he ran bitcoin atms in new hampshire and they busted him you know it's the

746
01:02:55,370 --> 01:02:59,810
same they're like you're not properly licensed you're not you know you don't have you haven't

747
01:02:59,810 --> 01:03:06,650
complied with all the regulatory stuff no one was hurt you know the they they went after him

748
01:03:06,650 --> 01:03:10,690
because they said well some people used your bitcoin atms to commit scams and it's like

749
01:03:10,690 --> 01:03:17,090
he had better know your customer policies than most major financial institutions

750
01:03:17,090 --> 01:03:36,790
He actually stopped some elderly people from being scammed. It's just, and of course, none of the people who actually committed scams, they didn't even go after them or attempt to, because that's not really what it's about. It's that they don't want people, they don't want us to have financial freedom, you know.

751
01:03:36,790 --> 01:03:55,810
I think the judge that locked Ian up was also one of the defy judges, you know, who's like issuing ridiculous rulings trying to trying to tie up President Trump. It's just crazy. So, yeah, Ian is innocent. He is in he's in prison right now, unfortunately, federal prison. So I'm trying to get him a pardon.

752
01:03:55,810 --> 01:04:00,310
And it's I feel good about it.

753
01:04:00,370 --> 01:04:10,810
I mean, I feel optimistic because I know that President Trump recognizes how important the Bitcoin community is and how Bitcoiners helped him get elected.

754
01:04:11,490 --> 01:04:20,570
So, you know, I'm hoping, definitely hoping that that will will push the needle a little bit and that Ian can get a pardon before the holidays.

755
01:04:20,770 --> 01:04:22,770
Roman Storm also, you know,

756
01:04:22,850 --> 01:04:24,750
and with Tornado Cash, which was more tied

757
01:04:24,750 --> 01:04:26,750
to Ethereum, but it's the same

758
01:04:26,750 --> 01:04:28,510
situation.

759
01:04:29,110 --> 01:04:30,690
And these guys have just

760
01:04:30,690 --> 01:04:32,610
been, same with

761
01:04:32,610 --> 01:04:34,750
Keone Rodriguez, like they have

762
01:04:34,750 --> 01:04:36,310
just been financially drained.

763
01:04:36,830 --> 01:04:38,390
This is lawfare, you know.

764
01:04:38,810 --> 01:04:53,553
So donating to these guys you know like please do They have tons of legal bills Attorneys are very expensive And you know we really hoping that the Samurai Wallet guys can get a pardon

765
01:04:54,213 --> 01:04:56,893
I think they have to report in for prison in like five weeks.

766
01:04:56,893 --> 01:05:00,493
So working really hard to get pardons before then.

767
01:05:00,493 --> 01:05:05,013
it's it's just insane uh because

768
01:05:05,013 --> 01:05:13,013
not like all of these archaic or not necessarily archaic these these just let's say fiat world laws

769
01:05:13,013 --> 01:05:19,833
yes being applied to these software developers to anyone who looks at this just impartially and

770
01:05:19,833 --> 01:05:25,293
logically it's just absurd right it's it's patently absurd there's there's no like it it

771
01:05:25,293 --> 01:05:30,013
seems insane to make the case like the samurai case is a great example where it's like they weren't

772
01:05:30,013 --> 01:05:34,693
even, I forget the exact how, exactly one time, but FinCEN basically said, no, you don't really

773
01:05:34,693 --> 01:05:38,693
need this license or whatever. And then that's exactly what they were charged for was needed,

774
01:05:38,913 --> 01:05:43,053
that they did it without the license. So it's like, there's not even consistency amongst the

775
01:05:43,053 --> 01:05:48,993
different departments, which is equally insane. But I mean, I would hope President Trump obviously

776
01:05:48,993 --> 01:05:53,753
understands lawfare, right? Yes. He's been a victim of it himself. I mean, does that give you

777
01:05:53,753 --> 01:05:58,573
some hope that he's like, like going to be able to kind of move quickly with some of these things?

778
01:05:58,573 --> 01:06:01,073
He knows what it's like to be on the receiving end, right?

779
01:06:01,673 --> 01:06:02,293
He does.

780
01:06:02,393 --> 01:06:02,953
I mean, it's crazy.

781
01:06:03,093 --> 01:06:05,893
I had dinner with him while this was going on for him.

782
01:06:06,453 --> 01:06:08,533
You know, it makes me optimistic about Ian.

783
01:06:08,673 --> 01:06:10,093
The feds hated Ian.

784
01:06:10,353 --> 01:06:12,073
You know, he was really a thorn in their side.

785
01:06:12,173 --> 01:06:13,993
He was a very outspoken libertarian.

786
01:06:14,893 --> 01:06:24,733
And when talk radio was big, he was a host of Free Talk Live, which used to be like a really big radio show, which I think would probably also make it.

787
01:06:24,733 --> 01:06:26,213
He was a public figure, you know.

788
01:06:26,213 --> 01:06:44,353
They went after him for things like that. They don't want people being loud. They don't like emergent technologies. The Biden administration went after all these guys. They also went after Roger. Thankfully, that case was dismissed and reached a settlement.

789
01:06:44,353 --> 01:07:05,253
You know, he was facing 109 years for tax evasion, allegedly. And the feds basically like raided his attorney's office, kicked in the door and interrogated his attorneys with a gun. Like if that had been allowed to go, then there's no there's no more attorney client privilege, not just in big cases like that.

790
01:07:05,253 --> 01:07:29,533
But the precedent is set that, you know, you're in a family law situation. Oh, you had a dispute with your ex-wife? Well, she can send the cops in to interrogate your attorney, you know, and now your family's gone. Just like crazy, crazy things. Like the free speech issues with samurai wallet and tornado cash. Like any code you write, any new technology, they could say that terrorists could grab it and then you're in prison.

791
01:07:29,533 --> 01:07:36,413
And so I think that President Trump recognizes this, you know, and his kids are also there.

792
01:07:36,513 --> 01:07:39,433
They're definitely dabbling in Bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

793
01:07:40,413 --> 01:07:40,713
Right.

794
01:07:41,413 --> 01:07:44,653
You know, it would make sense for him to protect his own children, too.

795
01:07:44,993 --> 01:07:49,073
So fingers crossed, you know, I spend a lot of time praying about it.

796
01:07:49,093 --> 01:07:50,293
I'm in church more often now.

797
01:07:50,493 --> 01:07:52,013
Dear God, please, please, please, please, please.

798
01:07:53,473 --> 01:07:57,853
And I yeah, I feel I feel optimistic, but it's a lot of work still.

799
01:07:57,853 --> 01:08:03,593
so i mean and and pardons are obviously like really important for these people because these

800
01:08:03,593 --> 01:08:08,033
are people's lives we're talking about this isn't just some academic question right this this is

801
01:08:08,033 --> 01:08:12,773
something like we need some some immediate actions that these guys don't need to rot in prison and

802
01:08:12,773 --> 01:08:16,513
get absolutely just destroyed even more so than they already have been and ripped apart from their

803
01:08:16,513 --> 01:08:21,593
families it's so bad more so than they already have been i mean but like i was just gonna ask

804
01:08:21,593 --> 01:08:25,633
going going forward it's like how do we make sure this doesn't keep happening again because

805
01:08:25,633 --> 01:08:31,893
the pendulum again does swing back eventually it will like it's when we have a party duopoly a

806
01:08:31,893 --> 01:08:35,513
political duopoly it's like that pendulum just goes back and forth and it's a question of how

807
01:08:35,513 --> 01:08:39,933
far and how fast it swings and how many people it hurts how do we make sure that this stuff

808
01:08:39,933 --> 01:08:47,053
doesn't just get reignited again with an even more fervent you know sickening sycophantic desire

809
01:08:47,053 --> 01:08:51,793
when some some commie is in charge you know eventually hopefully that won't happen but like

810
01:08:51,793 --> 01:08:59,493
it might probably will. I don't know. Yeah. Congress, the dirty word. Yeah. They need to

811
01:08:59,493 --> 01:09:04,073
pass some laws. They have they have passed a couple. Congress needs to pass some things

812
01:09:04,073 --> 01:09:09,273
protecting Bitcoin. I hate to say it. I think the other thing we need to do is educate Democrats.

813
01:09:10,233 --> 01:09:14,973
People on the left, like we cannot just like forget them. People on the left who are in Bitcoin

814
01:09:14,973 --> 01:09:19,893
circles, like we can't kick them out. We can't be nasty to them because they need to educate.

815
01:09:19,893 --> 01:09:29,613
Like if all the like left wing Gen Z people started using Bitcoin, they would like it has to become like the economic Gaza.

816
01:09:29,993 --> 01:09:37,353
I think like it's got to become something where lefties like are also really invested because then they're not going to support.

817
01:09:39,133 --> 01:09:42,653
They're not going to support politicians who go after Bitcoin.

818
01:09:42,653 --> 01:09:50,393
so i think that's actually a really a really good point is that beyond the political

819
01:09:50,393 --> 01:09:56,673
it is about moving the needle culturally like making this something that is because that's the

820
01:09:56,673 --> 01:10:01,633
and that's the frustrating thing too i think for a lot of a lot of libertarian or you know right

821
01:10:01,633 --> 01:10:06,853
wing bitcoiners or however they want to identify whatever's not you know left right it's like well

822
01:10:06,853 --> 01:10:12,233
yeah i have these opinions but like bitcoin is for anyone who is willing to learn that's the

823
01:10:12,233 --> 01:10:15,993
whole thing is that Bitcoin doesn't care. It's agnostic. It doesn't care about your politics. It

824
01:10:15,993 --> 01:10:19,893
doesn't care about your gender. It doesn't care about your, your gender identity. It literally

825
01:10:19,893 --> 01:10:25,113
doesn't care. Right. And so anyone is free to use it. That's the beauty of it. But, you know,

826
01:10:25,413 --> 01:10:30,533
I think like the left only ends up hurting themselves. And from the politician's perspective,

827
01:10:30,533 --> 01:10:35,713
like Elizabeth Warren only hurts her constituents, right? When she rails against it. But, but they

828
01:10:35,713 --> 01:10:41,713
don't see that. And to me, it's like one of the most American aligned with Western values,

829
01:10:41,713 --> 01:10:46,573
ideas that has ever existed. And it's that separation of money from state and the freedom

830
01:10:46,573 --> 01:10:50,413
for anyone to freely transact and use money and save the value of their time and energy in something

831
01:10:50,413 --> 01:10:56,553
that the government or the central bank cannot debase. But apparently that's now like a fringe

832
01:10:56,553 --> 01:11:01,913
idea or a right wing idea, but it's not. It's like, and there's a lot of people doing very good

833
01:11:01,913 --> 01:11:07,633
work, I think, reaching across the aisle. Like there's the Progressive Bitcoiner is an organization

834
01:11:07,633 --> 01:11:09,053
that's doing really good work with this.

835
01:11:09,253 --> 01:11:10,593
But it's hard, right?

836
01:11:10,613 --> 01:11:11,393
Because they've just been,

837
01:11:11,473 --> 01:11:13,193
they've been steeped in this,

838
01:11:13,353 --> 01:11:15,953
like just dog shit information, honestly,

839
01:11:16,033 --> 01:11:17,293
from folks like Elizabeth Warren.

840
01:11:17,933 --> 01:11:19,433
And sadly they've lapped it up

841
01:11:19,433 --> 01:11:20,313
and haven't gone deeper.

842
01:11:20,553 --> 01:11:21,673
But I hope that they do.

843
01:11:22,753 --> 01:11:24,093
Yeah, we need, like,

844
01:11:24,693 --> 01:11:27,273
there needs to be Bitcoin outreach at Berkeley.

845
01:11:27,513 --> 01:11:29,433
There needs to be Bitcoin outreach

846
01:11:29,433 --> 01:11:31,313
anywhere where there's like a hotbed

847
01:11:31,313 --> 01:11:32,333
of leftist activism.

848
01:11:32,333 --> 01:11:34,453
There's got to be Bitcoin.

849
01:11:34,453 --> 01:11:37,913
And it's like you have to proselytize.

850
01:11:38,433 --> 01:11:39,813
You have to proselytize.

851
01:11:39,993 --> 01:11:46,253
I'm a Christian, so I feel like I have kind of like this like evangelistic approach.

852
01:11:46,353 --> 01:11:47,853
And I know a lot of Bitcoiners do.

853
01:11:47,953 --> 01:11:50,173
And you want to like tell everybody, which is great.

854
01:11:50,473 --> 01:11:54,073
Make sure you are telling the people who you perceive to be your enemies.

855
01:11:54,073 --> 01:11:57,513
Like those are the people like we got to go after them.

856
01:11:57,973 --> 01:12:00,113
We got to go after them on everything.

857
01:12:00,313 --> 01:12:02,513
Like that's like the whole like Charlie Kirk thing.

858
01:12:02,573 --> 01:12:03,813
We need Charlie Kirk of Bitcoin.

859
01:12:04,453 --> 01:12:05,473
That's what we need.

860
01:12:07,633 --> 01:12:14,133
Yeah, it's a very good point because you want your enemies to use Bitcoin.

861
01:12:14,693 --> 01:12:14,953
Yes.

862
01:12:15,213 --> 01:12:18,193
That's ideal because, again, that's the beauty of it, right?

863
01:12:18,193 --> 01:12:19,073
It's money for enemies.

864
01:12:19,693 --> 01:12:26,993
And the more enemies that you have using Bitcoin, the less chances that they're going to try to use lawfare against you, Bitcoiners, just because they disagree with you politically.

865
01:12:27,453 --> 01:12:27,693
Yeah.

866
01:12:27,853 --> 01:12:28,793
That's what it comes down to, right?

867
01:12:28,793 --> 01:12:43,393
We got to have discussions with people who are opposed to it. And we got to tailor those discussions for all of the people who are listening. You know, like, we want to change their minds. And I think that that is a really good way to protect Bitcoin and our financial.

868
01:12:43,393 --> 01:13:00,973
Like one thing that I worry about is, you know, we get a Bitcoin strategic reserve set up and what happens to Bitcoin is kind of not exactly, but it is similar to what happened with gold that they are like, well, now we're confiscating it.

869
01:13:01,053 --> 01:13:02,933
So if you have Bitcoin, you got to turn it in.

870
01:13:03,013 --> 01:13:05,113
Like I worry about something like that.

871
01:13:05,533 --> 01:13:07,813
6102 type situation with, yeah.

872
01:13:08,273 --> 01:13:09,453
Turn all your Bitcoin in.

873
01:13:09,453 --> 01:13:14,973
yeah at least with that i mean even during the 6102 like a lot of people just said like well

874
01:13:14,973 --> 01:13:19,313
fuck you you know like i'm not giving you know giving you my gold and and and thankfully it's

875
01:13:19,313 --> 01:13:23,973
easier to hide a lot easier to hide bitcoin than to hide gold you know it's more comfortable too

876
01:13:23,973 --> 01:13:28,713
depending on where you're trying to stow it um but but yeah no i i completely agree with you like

877
01:13:28,713 --> 01:13:35,193
even if such an order would not be terribly effective you don't want to see such an order

878
01:13:35,193 --> 01:13:40,673
happen. Like you want politicians to ultimately be pro-Bitcoin. You want them to be falling over

879
01:13:40,673 --> 01:13:45,253
themselves to see who can appeal to Bitcoiners more, right? To try and get their donations,

880
01:13:45,373 --> 01:13:50,833
to try and get their votes. Like that's the ideal state. Like, you know, you don't want it to become

881
01:13:50,833 --> 01:14:10,256
a political football It may just become that you know but ideally we don want it to Yeah I want them to be competing for our votes That really what they should be doing You know you in a good spot where they not just trying to silence you or ignore you or drown you out but they competing to get your attention

882
01:14:12,695 --> 01:14:21,376
I wanted to ask you, too, just the Mises Caucus specifically, because you were the chair of the Libertarian National Party.

883
01:14:21,835 --> 01:14:23,895
You're now the chair of the Mises Caucus.

884
01:14:23,895 --> 01:14:28,315
and like just uh re you know reading over kind of some of the literature that you guys have too

885
01:14:28,315 --> 01:14:31,915
and i think just like the bio of your twitter is basically like you're focused on austrian

886
01:14:31,915 --> 01:14:38,236
economic literacy decentralization privatization and opposition to war and it's like yes yes agreed

887
01:14:38,236 --> 01:14:42,815
those those are those are good things i can can you talk a little bit about i mean just the the

888
01:14:42,815 --> 01:14:49,655
dynamics within the libertarian party for those who may not be familiar like how much of a like

889
01:14:49,655 --> 01:14:54,955
how much power do the individual caucuses have? And, you know, is this something you're already

890
01:14:54,955 --> 01:14:58,935
kind of thinking about and positioning for as we run into the next, you know, like presidential

891
01:14:58,935 --> 01:15:04,915
election? Or how soon does that start, I guess? Oh, we're recruiting right now. So like there's

892
01:15:04,915 --> 01:15:12,116
a major deadline coming up in California on the 17th to be signed up as a party member and

893
01:15:12,116 --> 01:15:17,215
registered libertarian in order to participate in the February convention. We just need as many

894
01:15:17,215 --> 01:15:21,395
people signed up as possible. We've been the dominant caucus for several years, but we've

895
01:15:21,395 --> 01:15:27,575
experienced burnout and attrition. So I'm trying to restack us with Bitcoiners and Maha especially,

896
01:15:28,275 --> 01:15:33,616
because that's what I see as like the future of the United States, our financial health,

897
01:15:33,616 --> 01:15:43,016
and our bodily health. We really want to transform the national party so that the

898
01:15:43,016 --> 01:15:48,635
express intention is to play kingmaker, you know, caveat being our candidates won't drop out if

899
01:15:48,635 --> 01:15:52,876
the major party candidate doesn't give us concessions, you know, or if they're just atrocious.

900
01:15:53,435 --> 01:15:58,955
But we want to be fixers, you know. And, you know, we do, we have a lot of opposition

901
01:15:58,955 --> 01:16:04,116
within the organization, you know, what we call the old guard. Not all of them, but a lot of them

902
01:16:04,116 --> 01:16:08,135
are like, no, my baby, you can't destroy, you know, and I'm like, you've had 50 years.

903
01:16:08,135 --> 01:16:24,236
There is a real problem with the boomer generation. Not all of them. Some of them are very fine people, but they don't want to pass on the torch. You know, how old is Nancy Pelosi? And she's finally like, I guess I'm finally too old.

904
01:16:24,236 --> 01:16:34,376
It's like your job, whether it's a political thing or a different, you know, a private organization, your job is when you rise to the top.

905
01:16:34,675 --> 01:16:44,055
And like this is something I'm very passionate about, you know, and I'm always looking like I'm mentoring actually someone to take over my place, a really great Bitcoiner from Michigan named Amber Harris.

906
01:16:44,055 --> 01:16:53,516
Like your job is to stay in charge for so long and then identify the next upcoming leader, pass the torch and mentor them and set them up for success.

907
01:16:54,236 --> 01:17:00,075
And the boomers did this weird twist where they told all of their children they were very special, very special.

908
01:17:00,215 --> 01:17:01,475
You're the most special kid ever.

909
01:17:01,855 --> 01:17:05,715
And then they were like, psych, you know, we're not helping you get off your feet.

910
01:17:05,835 --> 01:17:06,815
We're not helping you launch.

911
01:17:06,876 --> 01:17:08,035
We're destroying the currency.

912
01:17:08,555 --> 01:17:11,795
Oh, we think you're too stupid and incompetent to be in charge.

913
01:17:12,915 --> 01:17:14,516
And we're going to hold on to it forever.

914
01:17:15,116 --> 01:17:17,575
And that same dynamic exists in the Libertarian Party.

915
01:17:17,695 --> 01:17:18,555
I hate to say it.

916
01:17:18,655 --> 01:17:22,035
You know, when I was running for chair, there's like a 70-year-old man running against me.

917
01:17:22,035 --> 01:17:27,715
Just like with all due respect, why aren't you like offering to advise me?

918
01:17:28,415 --> 01:17:31,695
You want to like, no, dude, bro, step down.

919
01:17:31,695 --> 01:17:36,575
Like let younger generations take charge of their own futures.

920
01:17:37,775 --> 01:17:46,116
So, yeah, so that's one of the dynamics in the party, you know, and then there's just generally people who are more libertine.

921
01:17:46,116 --> 01:17:52,655
so they're very passionate about sex work and drugs but they were really bad on covid

922
01:17:52,655 --> 01:17:57,876
you know they don't care about war they're bad on god they're just silent on it you know

923
01:17:57,876 --> 01:18:03,275
so those are kind of the dynamics you know and and i've uncovered and i'm certainly not done yet

924
01:18:03,275 --> 01:18:08,175
there's a lot of work to be done but there was some soros money that went into people who went

925
01:18:08,175 --> 01:18:13,435
into the organization in the 90s and it's all indirect right it goes to a foundation goes to a

926
01:18:13,435 --> 01:18:18,955
foundation, goes to a guy, and then he runs. And it's like, it doesn't go directly. You know, and

927
01:18:18,955 --> 01:18:24,675
the Mises caucus came in, and we kind of rooted it out, and then we tore it up. And I experienced

928
01:18:24,675 --> 01:18:30,055
lawfare. You know, I got sued twice for working with President Trump. Our Colorado affiliate,

929
01:18:30,236 --> 01:18:35,375
which tried to endorse Kennedy and had this whole liberty pledge with Republicans to basically play

930
01:18:35,375 --> 01:18:41,035
kingmaker, you know, like they got sued and torn up. So it's been challenging.

931
01:18:41,035 --> 01:18:44,675
but I'm not afraid

932
01:18:44,675 --> 01:18:47,155
you know tip of the spear kind of stuff

933
01:18:47,155 --> 01:18:49,516
like someone's got to be the vanguard

934
01:18:49,516 --> 01:18:52,295
so what the Mises Caucus has done

935
01:18:52,295 --> 01:18:55,496
you know is we have cleaned all of that crap out

936
01:18:55,496 --> 01:18:58,095
so that people like you

937
01:18:58,095 --> 01:19:00,455
so that Bitcoiners and people who are like

938
01:19:00,455 --> 01:19:01,695
I don't have time for that drama

939
01:19:01,695 --> 01:19:04,415
so that they can come in and work with us

940
01:19:04,415 --> 01:19:06,175
and not have to deal with the drama

941
01:19:06,175 --> 01:19:08,935
it's like you know we've been the garbage men

942
01:19:08,935 --> 01:19:10,496
of the Libertarian Party

943
01:19:10,496 --> 01:19:18,855
you know it's well hopefully a lot of that garbage got taken out um yeah you know i i wanted to ask

944
01:19:18,855 --> 01:19:22,776
you as well this is something that i i think somebody you've met actually uh average gary

945
01:19:22,776 --> 01:19:27,435
is what he goes by online but he's a bitcoin veteran and just a super great guy but he had

946
01:19:27,435 --> 01:19:32,055
sent me a message before this just saying uh wondering if angela wants to sue on behalf of

947
01:19:32,055 --> 01:19:37,276
all u.s bitcoiners because the samurai case admits bitcoin is money this would make cap gains not

948
01:19:37,276 --> 01:19:41,895
applicable, maybe. And he clarifies, not a lawyer, but could be fun. Thoughts?

949
01:19:41,895 --> 01:19:47,496
I mean, I could find you an attorney. I'm sure I could find you an attorney. Suing the government

950
01:19:47,496 --> 01:19:52,855
is tricky because you have to ask the government permission to sue it. And then it gets to decide

951
01:19:52,855 --> 01:19:57,935
yes or no. But yeah, there's some good securities, Bitcoin attorneys out there.

952
01:19:59,616 --> 01:20:05,035
Might have ourselves a case there. I want to know too, because I want to be conscious of your time

953
01:20:05,035 --> 01:20:10,215
here because we're we've got maybe you still have a couple minutes left yeah yeah I'm okay okay I

954
01:20:10,215 --> 01:20:14,435
just I wanted to ask like because we've talked about a lot of kind of specifics here today but

955
01:20:14,435 --> 01:20:19,116
I wanted to just zoom out a little bit and I'd love to know like what is what is your thoughts

956
01:20:19,116 --> 01:20:24,195
on or what are your thoughts on just the actual purpose of the state like the modern state like

957
01:20:24,195 --> 01:20:29,455
not from an academic standpoint but from a practical standpoint like what what is the

958
01:20:29,455 --> 01:20:37,695
states raison d'etre in the modern world. Yeah. So I think it started as to defend your

959
01:20:37,695 --> 01:20:42,256
liberties, you know, to defend your rights, like your rights already existed. And then we just

960
01:20:42,256 --> 01:20:48,996
stuck this thing up to protect your right. And I think it exists now to grow. Like it's a self

961
01:20:48,996 --> 01:20:56,055
licking ice cream cone. Like it exists to grow. And anything that gets in its way is bad,

962
01:20:56,055 --> 01:21:02,116
is the enemy. So, you know, it's going to grow and grow and get great, great big,

963
01:21:02,455 --> 01:21:09,935
like a big old tumor. Yeah. And that's why I'm trying to cut it down a little bit,

964
01:21:10,035 --> 01:21:15,435
shave a little off the top. Yeah. It's like the purpose of a system is what it does, right? And

965
01:21:15,435 --> 01:21:20,315
the state's purpose seems to be just to continue feeding itself and growing ever more bloated.

966
01:21:20,315 --> 01:21:43,776
Yeah, I think it's profoundly impersonal. And so it's like, you know, it's not personal, right? Like it's nature, but it becomes so incredibly impersonal that it's like shocking, you know, the callousness and cruelty, the degree to which it operates, which you see, you know, in these Bitcoin cases, they don't care if they tear your life apart, ruin you.

967
01:21:43,776 --> 01:21:51,195
It's like you don't exist. You know, you're just a you're just a resource, you know, and they just gobble you up.

968
01:21:52,095 --> 01:21:56,635
It's kind of scary. That's malevolent, I think, too.

969
01:21:58,635 --> 01:22:03,195
Sorry, say that last part again. It's it's malevolent, you know, like it's OK.

970
01:22:03,195 --> 01:22:12,035
Yeah. Well, that's that's the difficult thing is, you know, the old adage of, you know, don't attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence or something like that.

971
01:22:12,035 --> 01:22:19,455
But it's like, boy, sometimes there often does seem to be some malice in there, especially with just the vindictiveness of some of these prosecutions.

972
01:22:19,455 --> 01:22:30,115
Right. That's what I don't understand is like who wakes up one morning and decides like I'm going to misinterpret the law to try and screw over somebody because they wrote open source software.

973
01:22:30,615 --> 01:22:34,215
I just don't I don't get what's wrong with you that you would wake up and want to do that.

974
01:22:34,335 --> 01:22:36,115
I truly cannot comprehend it.

975
01:22:36,115 --> 01:22:41,776
It's like it's very hungry and it perceives you taking away its food.

976
01:22:41,776 --> 01:22:46,895
And so it's going to smack you down really hard, really hard.

977
01:22:47,736 --> 01:22:55,415
It's generally, I mean, I don't think that it's like really malicious and angry all of the time,

978
01:22:55,415 --> 01:23:00,795
but that you experience that as a reaction to anything that it views as a threat to its existence.

979
01:23:01,295 --> 01:23:04,075
And so it's like you just have to be on the lookout.

980
01:23:04,075 --> 01:23:18,758
Like I just have to tiptoe really carefully you know please and thank you please and thank you And I try not to I don know piss off the wrong people I do you know sometimes but I try not to go out of my way to do it

981
01:23:19,918 --> 01:23:22,478
I think that that's a difficult thing.

982
01:23:22,778 --> 01:23:24,678
It's a very difficult line to walk.

983
01:23:25,298 --> 01:23:27,198
And you obviously do it very well.

984
01:23:27,798 --> 01:23:35,978
But for, I think for a lot of people, there's, and this is why I guess like anonymity and pseudonymity online is also a really powerful tool, right?

985
01:23:35,978 --> 01:23:44,778
But there's also something powerful about actually putting your face or your name or both behind something that you're doing to show that, look, you can't just write this off as a bot.

986
01:23:45,018 --> 01:23:47,418
You know, this isn't just a Russian bot farm, right?

987
01:23:47,558 --> 01:23:49,258
No, this is a real person.

988
01:23:49,998 --> 01:24:00,798
But when you do, when you put your face out there, you put your name out there, you are opening yourself up to threat factors, either from the state or from various actors.

989
01:24:01,558 --> 01:24:03,898
There's a lot of people that benefit from the status quo.

990
01:24:03,898 --> 01:24:11,918
and it's a difficult line to walk to figure out how hard can you push without you know being uh

991
01:24:11,918 --> 01:24:17,138
being basically you know being taken out or silenced or having lawfare used against you

992
01:24:17,138 --> 01:24:21,378
like lawfare seems to be the really the easiest way for them to do it and it's the one that they

993
01:24:21,378 --> 01:24:26,058
can justify because they don't have to technically they it's not viewed externally as using violence

994
01:24:26,058 --> 01:24:31,278
but like if you resist arrest like when they FBI kicks in your door they'll they'll kill you right

995
01:24:31,278 --> 01:24:53,738
Like, so it's like crazy. And they use they use individuals to do it, too. You know, it doesn't always just come from the state. Yeah. I mean, I could tell you that being in the being in the Libertarian Party, you know, like the lawsuits and attacks I've gotten. They're not all just from like people. They're from organizations that propped up a particular person. Most of those organizations used to receive USAID.

996
01:24:53,738 --> 01:24:55,838
it's

997
01:24:55,838 --> 01:24:57,098
very

998
01:24:57,098 --> 01:25:01,878
thorough. I'm curious to see where the money will be coming from

999
01:25:01,878 --> 01:25:06,298
next year on all of this stuff. And we're like a small fry.

1000
01:25:06,938 --> 01:25:09,258
You know, there are other organizations who

1001
01:25:09,258 --> 01:25:14,198
you know, the attacks are just insane. And I mean, yeah, they pull out

1002
01:25:14,198 --> 01:25:18,138
the big guns for guys like Samurai Wallet. You know, they just go straight

1003
01:25:18,138 --> 01:25:19,078
at them.

1004
01:25:19,078 --> 01:25:22,238
I saw an interview you did

1005
01:25:22,238 --> 01:25:24,158
maybe a couple of months ago with

1006
01:25:24,158 --> 01:25:25,498
Ian Freeman's wife

1007
01:25:25,498 --> 01:25:27,958
talking about like her

1008
01:25:27,958 --> 01:25:30,198
talking about the experience of what

1009
01:25:30,198 --> 01:25:31,958
happened and when the FBI came in

1010
01:25:31,958 --> 01:25:34,238
basically the FBI stalks you for

1011
01:25:34,238 --> 01:25:36,058
a while and then claims that they

1012
01:25:36,058 --> 01:25:38,298
like oh we didn't even know that you were his wife

1013
01:25:38,298 --> 01:25:40,278
or that you were there and it's like of course you did

1014
01:25:40,278 --> 01:25:42,218
you liars like it's just

1015
01:25:42,218 --> 01:25:44,198
it's insane

1016
01:25:44,198 --> 01:25:46,038
that you can just be made a target

1017
01:25:46,038 --> 01:25:47,658
and then made an example of

1018
01:25:47,658 --> 01:25:52,418
and really unless there's, you know, folks advocating on your behalf, like unless you

1019
01:25:52,418 --> 01:25:57,518
have some sort of an audience, like so much of this, like just gets, can just be swept under the

1020
01:25:57,518 --> 01:26:01,798
rug and you can just be kind of disappeared and put away. Like thank, I mean, I'm glad we have

1021
01:26:01,798 --> 01:26:05,978
social media now because that gets harder even for people who are, you know, very, you know,

1022
01:26:06,038 --> 01:26:10,238
quote, small fries, but it's still like, you know, if they can, if they can do this, you know,

1023
01:26:10,238 --> 01:26:16,098
to president Trump, like, of course they can do it to you. Right. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Like poor

1024
01:26:16,098 --> 01:26:22,878
Roman Sterlingov, who was not even, he wasn't a U.S. citizen. He was, he has a, he has a Russian

1025
01:26:22,878 --> 01:26:32,758
name. I think he's Swedish. I think. I could be butchering that. Like he, they caught him. He was

1026
01:26:32,758 --> 01:26:37,718
coming through the United States to go to, on vacation in South America. And he was just changing

1027
01:26:37,718 --> 01:26:42,418
airports. They pulled him out and nabbed him. And he doesn't have a strong support base in the

1028
01:26:42,418 --> 01:26:48,718
United States, you know, so like he's just like locked up and I reach out to him regularly just

1029
01:26:48,718 --> 01:26:52,518
to be like, hey, you know, like I'm I'm trying to get you out. I'm still fighting for you. It's

1030
01:26:52,518 --> 01:26:58,398
taking some time, you know, but like if you don't have that that support base, you know, like you

1031
01:26:58,398 --> 01:27:05,718
just get swallowed and forgotten. It's so it's so incredibly impersonal the way that it operates.

1032
01:27:05,718 --> 01:27:23,978
For people who are listening right now and who are hopefully angered by this lawfare being used against software developers specifically, what is the best way for people to take meaningful action to move the needle, to get involved?

1033
01:27:23,978 --> 01:27:34,798
Yeah. If you go to freeiannow.org, sign his petition, that would be great. I'm going to be launching one for all of them soon at cryptoprisoners.com.

1034
01:27:36,118 --> 01:27:37,058
I'll add that in the show notes.

1035
01:27:37,858 --> 01:27:53,798
Okay, great. That just went live and we'll have the petition up within about 24 hours. And I mean, you need to make your voice known in the midterms. You need to, whether it's social media. I mean, I highly recommend you join the Mises Caucus and help us.

1036
01:27:53,798 --> 01:27:58,058
with our kingmaker strategy. I think there are going to be candidates who are running on this

1037
01:27:58,058 --> 01:28:05,038
particular issue and they need to be loud and they need to make their voice heard. You know,

1038
01:28:05,198 --> 01:28:12,178
I try to always be the carrot, right? I'm the carrot. I'm sweet. I want to have a really good

1039
01:28:12,178 --> 01:28:18,418
relationship with the administration. Someone needs to be the stick. And so I need a bunch of

1040
01:28:18,418 --> 01:28:25,158
sticks. And that's the dynamic that we have to operate in, right? I can't do it, but you can

1041
01:28:25,158 --> 01:28:33,758
be the stick. I love it. So if you're out there and you are feeling more like a stick than a

1042
01:28:33,758 --> 01:28:41,378
carrot, reach out and get involved. And I'll share both the freeiannow.org and the Crypto

1043
01:28:41,378 --> 01:28:45,438
Prisoners website just in the show notes for people so they can check those out. But really,

1044
01:28:45,438 --> 01:28:50,138
I do encourage people to, to use the voice that you have. It's also like, it's never been,

1045
01:28:50,138 --> 01:28:54,798
um, I sort of jokingly, but also not at all jokingly very often tell people like,

1046
01:28:54,838 --> 01:28:58,538
you should just start a podcast. Like you should just do that. You should just start creating media.

1047
01:28:59,138 --> 01:29:02,718
And, and it's joking because there's this joke about, you know, we need more Bitcoin podcasts.

1048
01:29:02,798 --> 01:29:06,238
We don't need more Bitcoin podcasts. There's too many. Right. The point being like,

1049
01:29:06,318 --> 01:29:11,938
there has never been a time before in history where independent voices could make themselves

1050
01:29:11,938 --> 01:29:18,278
heard so easily as you can today. And like, so like, look at the, in the last election, like

1051
01:29:18,278 --> 01:29:22,738
talk about, you know, media moving the needle, like podcasts, president Trump going on long

1052
01:29:22,738 --> 01:29:27,318
form podcasts and a bunch of them move the needle for him meaningfully, especially with younger

1053
01:29:27,318 --> 01:29:33,558
voters. Like this makes a difference. So like, you know, get involved, speak up, make your voice

1054
01:29:33,558 --> 01:29:39,378
heard, start a podcast, start a, you know, start, start evangelizing for whatever it is you care

1055
01:29:39,378 --> 01:29:43,438
about because you can actually move the needle now. And when you have that, you become harder

1056
01:29:43,438 --> 01:29:47,818
to silence too, because then you, you know, you have, you have a platform. So, you know, make use

1057
01:29:47,818 --> 01:29:51,638
of it, make use of the tools that are at our disposal and get yourself on, on Noster as well.

1058
01:29:51,818 --> 01:29:57,098
We need to get you back using it more. It's, I do. I need to use it more. I need to use it more.

1059
01:29:57,738 --> 01:30:04,578
Yes. So I am on it. I just need to use it. I'm going to blast out your, your account here.

1060
01:30:04,578 --> 01:30:12,578
please do i was struggling to put in a proper profile picture i was at the i was at the lake

1061
01:30:12,578 --> 01:30:18,038
satoshi is a michigan bitcoin festival and they the guys there and set me up with it it was it was

1062
01:30:18,038 --> 01:30:24,718
um it was like kind of hilarious they were awesome making it happen i i love it well you know that's

1063
01:30:24,718 --> 01:30:29,778
the beautiful thing bitcoiners and folks on noster are always happy to uh to help others get started

1064
01:30:29,778 --> 01:30:34,878
right? That's kind of the beauty of it. Angela, thank you so much for your time. This was really

1065
01:30:34,878 --> 01:30:39,538
a pleasure talking to you. You're welcome back truly anytime. Is there anywhere else you want

1066
01:30:39,538 --> 01:30:44,078
to send people or direct them? Did we cover enough? Anything you want to leave people with

1067
01:30:44,078 --> 01:30:48,198
if nowhere else to send them? I think, you know, I think we got it. I just,

1068
01:30:48,938 --> 01:30:54,138
you can make a difference. Don't feel like you can't. 1% of the population

1069
01:30:54,138 --> 01:30:56,758
can change the course of history.

1070
01:30:58,858 --> 01:31:02,018
I say amen to that, and that's a perfect note to end on.

1071
01:31:02,638 --> 01:31:03,978
Thank you so much for your time.

1072
01:31:04,098 --> 01:31:06,438
Thanks to everybody who joined live on NOSTER 2.

1073
01:31:06,558 --> 01:31:08,818
Again, if you're listening to this after the fact,

1074
01:31:08,898 --> 01:31:11,698
this is your sign to go and get on NOSTER

1075
01:31:11,698 --> 01:31:15,118
so that when they inevitably ban you from centralized social media,

1076
01:31:15,558 --> 01:31:17,558
you have somewhere to still speak and be heard.

1077
01:31:17,558 --> 01:31:19,498
But Angela, really, thank you so much for your time.

1078
01:31:19,598 --> 01:31:20,098
It was a pleasure.

1079
01:31:20,918 --> 01:31:21,178
Thanks.

1080
01:31:24,138 --> 01:31:33,458
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin Talk episode of The Bitcoin Podcast.

1081
01:31:34,098 --> 01:31:38,058
Remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you're watching or listening,

1082
01:31:38,478 --> 01:31:42,358
and share it with your friends, family, and strangers on the internet.

1083
01:31:42,358 --> 01:31:49,078
Find me on Noster at primal.net slash walker and this podcast at primal.net slash titcoin.

1084
01:31:49,658 --> 01:31:52,938
On X, YouTube, and Rumble, just search at Walker America.

1085
01:31:52,938 --> 01:31:57,778
and find this podcast on X and Instagram at titcoinpodcast.

1086
01:31:57,918 --> 01:32:00,458
Head to the show notes to grab sponsor links.

1087
01:32:00,458 --> 01:32:05,258
Head to substack.com slash at Walker America to get episodes emailed to you

1088
01:32:05,258 --> 01:32:09,078
and head to bitcoinpodcast.net for everything else.

1089
01:32:09,618 --> 01:32:13,178
Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant.

1090
01:32:13,458 --> 01:32:18,798
So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to the Bitcoin podcast.

1091
01:32:19,398 --> 01:32:21,818
Until next time, stay free.

1092
01:32:22,938 --> 01:32:28,878
Lastly, the deleted video editing

1093
01:32:29,438 --> 01:32:29,998
gave us information.