1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,760
Freedom is very different than a potentially controlled system.

2
00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:05,240
It cannot exist together.

3
00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,360
One system gets worse, it has to be a complete surveillance state.

4
00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:09,720
One system gets better.

5
00:00:10,060 --> 00:00:14,800
Your time is going to tell you which system is going to win, but they cannot coexist.

6
00:00:15,420 --> 00:00:17,220
The natural state of the free market is deflation.

7
00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,920
If Bitcoin stayed decentralized and secure, it is the first free market that's ever existed.

8
00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:23,460
It's not Bitcoin that's changing.

9
00:00:23,780 --> 00:00:26,680
It's us moving from a zero-sum game to an infinite game,

10
00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,900
but we wouldn't have the map of what the infinite game looks like

11
00:00:29,900 --> 00:00:31,420
because we've never lived in that map.

12
00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:33,360
Nothing has changed in Big One.

13
00:00:34,340 --> 00:00:34,620
Nothing.

14
00:00:34,900 --> 00:00:35,780
This is money.

15
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:37,240
It's going to be money.

16
00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,760
And the more you use it as money, the faster it becomes money.

17
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,260
But even if you don't use it as money, it's becoming the money.

18
00:00:43,780 --> 00:00:46,760
Why was this something that you felt it important to focus on now?

19
00:00:46,760 --> 00:01:16,740
Thank you.

20
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:22,140
can. New U.S. tax rules let miners write off 100% of their mining hardware in a single year.

21
00:01:22,380 --> 00:01:28,680
So earn Bitcoin daily while saving big come tax season. Get started at mining.blockwarsolutions.com

22
00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:34,800
slash titcoin. Use the code titcoin to get $100 off your first miner when using the Blockware

23
00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:39,400
marketplace. This is not tax advice, so go speak to the team at Blockware to learn more.

24
00:01:39,780 --> 00:01:45,460
That's mining.blockwarsolutions.com slash titcoin. Head to the show notes for links to find the show

25
00:01:45,460 --> 00:01:50,660
on centralized social media platforms and on Noster, or just go directly to BitcoinPodcast.net.

26
00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,000
You'll find it all there. And kind reminder that you can support this show by becoming a paid

27
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,760
subscriber on Fountain. Or don't, Bitcoin doesn't care, but I sure do appreciate it.

28
00:01:59,940 --> 00:02:03,000
Without further ado, let's get into this Bitcoin talk.

29
00:02:10,100 --> 00:02:14,260
You, uh, you know, I've been very excited. You've been on this show a number of times,

30
00:02:14,260 --> 00:02:17,140
And I've got to say, I'm very grateful for you always sharing your time.

31
00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:23,080
I think between like, between you and, and Lynn, you know, you two have both been on

32
00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,320
so many different podcasts.

33
00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,900
And I think for every podcast, both of you two go on and I, I call you both out specifically

34
00:02:29,900 --> 00:02:33,980
because I noticed that no matter what podcast you guys go on, that podcast does numbers.

35
00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,720
And I think it's because both of you and you happen to both be, you know, work together

36
00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:38,620
as well at EgoDeath.

37
00:02:38,740 --> 00:02:42,360
You both break things down in a beautifully simple way, two different approaches, but

38
00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:47,300
incredibly, incredibly coherent and clear in the way that you break things down. And it clearly

39
00:02:47,300 --> 00:02:51,800
resonates with people. So anytime I can have you on, it's an opportunity kind of almost like a,

40
00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:57,820
a touch point with reality for me. And I think for people who listen as well. And so excited to

41
00:02:57,820 --> 00:03:01,600
chat with you. There's a lot of interesting things happening. You've just come back from

42
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,940
El Salvador. We're going to talk about that a little bit, but maybe as a place to start,

43
00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:11,180
we were just mentioning this before we went live, but the idea that right now there seems to be a

44
00:03:11,180 --> 00:03:16,980
lot of chaos. And if we won't specifically mention the fiat price of Bitcoin, the infinitely

45
00:03:16,980 --> 00:03:22,840
printable fiat kuckbuck price of Bitcoin, but it is languishing lower than people would like it to

46
00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:27,920
be, apparently. And there seems to be a lot of sentiment out there that is just very, very

47
00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:34,740
negative. People are very worried. And I would just love your overall take on this. Is this

48
00:03:34,740 --> 00:03:39,920
something that is, you know, are we, does it, does it matter if we're in a bear market right now?

49
00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:46,060
are we in a bear? Did the cycles ever exist? Are the cycles broken? What do you attribute this just

50
00:03:46,060 --> 00:03:50,940
general, I don't know, malaise or discontent that people are feeling right now? Like,

51
00:03:51,020 --> 00:03:54,260
is it all just the price action or is there something deeper there?

52
00:03:55,440 --> 00:04:01,480
Yeah, it's obviously the price action in US dollars. So people say it doesn't affect them,

53
00:04:01,620 --> 00:04:06,220
but every time they measure it in that currency, then of course it's affecting them.

54
00:04:06,220 --> 00:04:13,420
Um, so, so we know that there's a tightening of liquidity conditioning

55
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,700
current conditions in the world.

56
00:04:15,700 --> 00:04:20,560
And there's that tightening of liquidity conditions is creating, um,

57
00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:22,220
credit problems.

58
00:04:23,020 --> 00:04:24,100
Glow, uh, globally.

59
00:04:24,780 --> 00:04:26,080
Those credit problems.

60
00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:34,160
So if you saw the, um, the, uh, auto loans and, um, and delayed in payments

61
00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:40,880
or late auto loans were off the charts more than 2006, 2007, 2008.

62
00:04:44,700 --> 00:04:52,380
The LPs in funds like real estate and private equity funds like real estate are prohibited

63
00:04:52,380 --> 00:04:59,060
to get out of those because those haven't been marked to market. So there's a whole bunch of

64
00:04:59,060 --> 00:05:04,040
tightening liquidity positions that people thought that their money was worth X. It isn't.

65
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:09,620
It's like, I love what Larry says, Larry Leppard, it's already gone to money heaven.

66
00:05:11,300 --> 00:05:20,000
And, and, and, and the belief in the belief is it still, so it hasn't been marked to market.

67
00:05:20,300 --> 00:05:26,080
And there's a whole bunch of these that any, that the tightening liquidity conditions will create

68
00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:30,400
more of these that'll get exposed and that exposure will start to

69
00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:36,000
move into other industries because those people who thought they had money

70
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:41,500
are paying other people who thought they had money and that'll uh that'll tighten so we've been

71
00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:47,880
um the fed has been removing liquidity for for a while and every time they do

72
00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:55,840
you hit these events that come from nowhere that have always been there that then will cascade

73
00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:58,660
which would create a whole bunch of need for liquidity.

74
00:05:58,860 --> 00:06:01,760
It's not just the Fed, but it's a global liquidity that's needed.

75
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,840
And when we say liquidity, that's just print money out of nothing.

76
00:06:09,820 --> 00:06:15,620
And the irony is everybody's measuring what Bitcoin is worth through that.

77
00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:24,080
If the money never was printed, then Bitcoin would fall a lot more.

78
00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,560
and it would be the only thing of value in the world

79
00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,140
because everything else would fall to almost zero.

80
00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,540
But I think the cause for concern

81
00:06:36,540 --> 00:06:37,700
or what people are doing,

82
00:06:37,940 --> 00:06:39,480
nothing has changed in Bitcoin.

83
00:06:40,340 --> 00:06:40,900
Nothing.

84
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:42,960
Every 10 minutes, there's a new block.

85
00:06:45,180 --> 00:06:47,100
The builders are building.

86
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,800
All of the layers are being built.

87
00:06:50,020 --> 00:06:52,160
It's being used as a circular economy.

88
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:59,600
money in many different communities around the world and it's it's growing extraordinarily fast

89
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:05,960
because retail hasn't bought or micro sailor michael sailor can't buy because it's because

90
00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:13,200
his engine just went into reverse doesn't mean bitcoin isn't successful and isn't imposing uh

91
00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:20,020
imposing success it does mean that if you take and leverage you could get liquidated and you're um

92
00:07:20,020 --> 00:07:22,820
And lots of people have been taking leverage in this.

93
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,760
Well, yeah, and it's such a great point.

94
00:07:26,740 --> 00:07:31,000
Price action, like remove price action from the equation, which is difficult for a lot

95
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,480
of folks like and I'm not saying it's easy for me, right?

96
00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,320
Like, obviously, it's nice to see Bitcoin going up.

97
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:37,920
I like seeing Bitcoin go down as folks.

98
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,600
It means my my dollars buy me more sats than they did the day before when my DCA is hit.

99
00:07:42,660 --> 00:07:42,840
Right.

100
00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:54,400
But at this same time, if you can remove yourself from that, it's been an incredibly bullish, let's say, on Bitcoin as a medium of exchange period for these past couple of weeks.

101
00:07:54,520 --> 00:08:03,260
Just speaking of the announcements that Square and Cash App had, opening up Bitcoin acceptance to over 4 million merchants, which is incredible.

102
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:11,620
Cash App talking about using Bitcoin as the actual rails, even for settling USD and things like this.

103
00:08:11,620 --> 00:08:25,480
To me, these sorts of medium of exchange announcements and things that further the ability of everyday people to use Bitcoin, either purposefully or without even knowing it by using the Bitcoin network, to me, those are incredibly bullish developments.

104
00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:34,480
Those are things that I look at and say, that's great. That is just great for a freedom go up standpoint, right? For actually getting more Bitcoin out there and circulating it through these economies.

105
00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:39,740
are there other things that you're looking at because obviously you're closely involved with

106
00:08:39,740 --> 00:08:43,760
with fetty through the work that you do at ego death and advising them some of these other

107
00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,960
projects like i guess maybe first what was your what was your take on the square announcements

108
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:52,180
were you equally as excited about that and then are there other things that you're seeing from

109
00:08:52,180 --> 00:08:57,720
the medium of exchange standpoint that are making you go wow this is an incredible time yeah there's

110
00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,880
nothing to worry about on this this is imposing a new discipline in the world i'm not like i just

111
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:09,160
the other nonsense i just don't pay any attention to it i traveled for two weeks uh in southeast

112
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:17,640
asia with miles suitor who's leading the efforts on the cash app and he's just such a genuine

113
00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:24,680
incredible guy who also understands where this is going obviously he would if jack does and

114
00:09:24,680 --> 00:09:29,880
and and but he he's a bitcoiner he knows it needs to be used as a bitcoin media

115
00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,500
It's a medium of exchange and they've done as far as a public company,

116
00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:40,320
there is no public company that has done more for, to, to accelerate this,

117
00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:44,920
including investing in open source and, and some of the stuff then, uh,

118
00:09:44,940 --> 00:09:48,120
then cash up as miles has done.

119
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:54,240
So fortunate to call him a friend, um, and seeing some of this, uh, uh,

120
00:09:54,580 --> 00:09:57,600
seeing some of these that were coming out and knew that they were coming out.

121
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:03,680
some of the other stuff behind the scenes that uh that are happening um this is

122
00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:11,900
so people the headlines would talk about venezuela and what's happening from we're going to target the

123
00:10:11,900 --> 00:10:18,440
drug dealers right but really what do you think that is it's it's a u.s exerting its control over

124
00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:29,460
we need energy resources raw materials and the likes um and uh and we can't move him out by

125
00:10:29,460 --> 00:10:37,140
talking about democracy so so what's happening there too and and uh on the ground on the bottom

126
00:10:37,140 --> 00:10:46,100
up and it is a dictatorship and uh but that's not really the thing right so the real thing is is it's

127
00:10:46,100 --> 00:10:54,680
there's lots of dictators that the U.S. doesn't go into, perhaps even funds.

128
00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:02,900
In this case, I think the security umbrella of what North and South America look like

129
00:11:02,900 --> 00:11:05,940
is really at play here.

130
00:11:06,940 --> 00:11:13,540
And you can imagine Venezuela has vast resources in energy.

131
00:11:13,540 --> 00:11:22,820
utilized energy wasted energy per se that would likely pay for the entire energy infrastructure

132
00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:30,800
and more by going into so some of these things the wheels are in motion to that these things are

133
00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:36,760
already going to happen can't tell you the time of when they these things happen but but there's

134
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:43,440
there's more and more bitcoiners in the world there's more and more understanding of what

135
00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:49,080
bitcoin is in mining and energy and everything else and it's securing energy resources to

136
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:57,420
to increase the wealth of their nation and that will happen i can't tell you when but that's going

137
00:11:57,420 --> 00:12:05,580
to happen and uh and and so so you can see this playing out in all sorts of different ways um

138
00:12:05,580 --> 00:12:13,420
and uh and around the world and and then at the same time people are talking about bitcoin prices

139
00:12:13,420 --> 00:12:23,740
in US dollars. Well, I mean, that's the thing. It's, I think nothing has changed, right? And this

140
00:12:23,740 --> 00:12:28,480
is often there's this attitude that you see if you spend perhaps too much time on social media,

141
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:33,080
centralized social media, especially where the algorithm is feeding you exactly what it knows is

142
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:38,820
going to get you riled up, that you may have this perception that somehow something has negatively

143
00:12:38,820 --> 00:12:43,160
happened that made Bitcoin somehow change or weaker or something like this. And it's like,

144
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,620
it's never been stronger. There's never been more acknowledgement of what Bitcoin is,

145
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:53,580
the potential that it has, and the future that it is going to usher in. And yet at the same time,

146
00:12:53,580 --> 00:12:58,320
when you have a fiat price, and we speak usually about US dollars, but we could be speaking in

147
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:04,120
Canadian moose shekels or in Turkish lira or in Argentinian pesos or any number of other

148
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,380
currencies, right? It doesn't, as you've said, they're all just pieces of paper.

149
00:13:07,380 --> 00:13:18,960
that that discrepancy between the vibe that you uh feel online and the uh combined with the paper

150
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:25,080
value of the bitcoin if measured in these pieces of paper versus what's really true and real about

151
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:31,740
this network and this monetary uh this monetary network like that just to me it always presents

152
00:13:31,740 --> 00:13:32,980
an opportunity, right?

153
00:13:32,980 --> 00:13:38,740
It seems like it's a time where, wow, the world is still mostly asleep to what's happening.

154
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:40,440
More and more are waking up.

155
00:13:40,940 --> 00:13:45,300
But if you as a, you know, a humble pleb are trying to do things to set yourself and your

156
00:13:45,300 --> 00:13:59,895
family up for the future the best time to do that is not when everybody jumping on board It when everybody seems to be kind of terrified or there a you know there an information asymmetry there Yeah I would even go further like way further than that And from a

157
00:14:01,075 --> 00:14:06,315
I think three things together, what I say, the natural state of the free market is deflation.

158
00:14:06,915 --> 00:14:11,535
If Bitcoin stayed decentralized and secure, it is the first free market that's ever existed.

159
00:14:11,535 --> 00:14:20,595
it. Number three, only your time matters. So where are you spending your time? Are you spending your

160
00:14:20,595 --> 00:14:28,435
time contributing to the nonsense or getting co-opted or listening to all of what has to be

161
00:14:28,435 --> 00:14:35,615
a control system? That might be. Is your energy making it stronger? And if you're doing it, if

162
00:14:35,615 --> 00:14:42,955
you just let anything in it the answer is yes and if you're pricing bitcoin from the control system

163
00:14:42,955 --> 00:14:50,695
you haven't left the matrix yet what's worse you're talking about a whole bunch of you'd

164
00:14:50,695 --> 00:14:55,035
probably talking about a whole bunch of other people still in the matrix like you're better

165
00:14:55,035 --> 00:15:02,575
right and and and i'm not there is no better or worse it would just have to look like this

166
00:15:02,575 --> 00:15:11,015
as we shifted our mental energy into a new system and the new system because of our mental energy

167
00:15:11,015 --> 00:15:16,415
and what we're building in it would become would become stronger and it would bend reality in a

168
00:15:16,415 --> 00:15:22,215
different way than we've ever lived in we would be part of that equation but now the thing that

169
00:15:22,215 --> 00:15:29,235
i said is more important if you're part of the equation in the free market and 99.9 percent of

170
00:15:29,235 --> 00:15:35,175
people aren't wouldn't that provide an incredible opportunity to create value

171
00:15:35,175 --> 00:15:44,735
wouldn't and and why would you be mad about the value you're able to create for others

172
00:15:44,735 --> 00:15:52,195
because the world looks like it does right you should be celebrating it you should be celebrating

173
00:15:52,195 --> 00:15:56,675
it all day long you should have empathy for people that live in the other world why are you

174
00:15:56,675 --> 00:16:02,775
mad at the thing that's giving you grab of it ability to create crazy value because you can

175
00:16:02,775 --> 00:16:10,955
only do that because the world looks like it does today because so many people are trapped in fiat

176
00:16:10,955 --> 00:16:16,475
because so many people are the the the ability to contribute comes from that

177
00:16:16,475 --> 00:16:23,175
and that's like that's your opportunity is essentially what you're saying it's the best

178
00:16:23,175 --> 00:16:29,795
opportunity that you ever there's no ever in history been a better opportunity because we've

179
00:16:29,795 --> 00:16:37,615
never lived in the free market you live in the first one why would you let that system take your

180
00:16:37,615 --> 00:16:44,895
best energy why would you fight it why would you just spend the time building doing the things that

181
00:16:44,895 --> 00:16:50,955
and walker this is what you do this is why we became friends right this is why but but but a lot

182
00:16:50,955 --> 00:16:57,555
of a lot of my incredible friends this is why i feel like so fulfilled because i'm doing this

183
00:16:57,555 --> 00:17:02,255
thing with people that are doing this thing and the first time it's ever existed that we actually

184
00:17:02,255 --> 00:17:09,975
get to bend reality um and the more and we all me too were once in that other system

185
00:17:09,975 --> 00:17:15,995
and we moved our time more and more and every time we moved our time it's gotten a little better

186
00:17:15,995 --> 00:17:22,135
So this is not something I, this is not something I'm mad about.

187
00:17:22,395 --> 00:17:24,895
I'm just so glad I get to do it.

188
00:17:24,995 --> 00:17:28,655
I get to do this and the opportunity wouldn't exist unless the other system

189
00:17:28,655 --> 00:17:30,455
looked like it and everyone else was confused.

190
00:17:31,795 --> 00:17:35,455
Or, or, sorry, or, or, or I'm confused.

191
00:17:37,095 --> 00:17:38,555
But I don't think I'm confused.

192
00:17:38,895 --> 00:17:39,195
Right.

193
00:17:39,635 --> 00:17:44,535
I think that one thing that, and I appreciate that sentiment very much and I

194
00:17:44,535 --> 00:17:49,535
I completely agree with it. And one thing that I think that is an easy trap to fall into is people

195
00:17:49,535 --> 00:17:53,755
think that this switch, because you talk about this switch often, right, about moving your time

196
00:17:53,755 --> 00:17:59,295
to this other system, to this system that is, you know, enabling value creation without, you know,

197
00:17:59,355 --> 00:18:04,135
outside of any currency debasement, outside of the centralized control, the ability to actually

198
00:18:04,135 --> 00:18:08,515
live in and prosper because of a truly free market that we've never been able to experience

199
00:18:08,515 --> 00:18:13,595
for any meaningful amount of time. I think that a lot of people, when they hear that the first time,

200
00:18:13,595 --> 00:18:18,655
they think, well, like, well, I can't just switch over to this new thing. I can't just

201
00:18:18,655 --> 00:18:22,735
flip a switch and be in this new system. Like I have the, I have these obligations and I have all

202
00:18:22,735 --> 00:18:28,135
these things. And I think, is it fair to say that like for most people, the best approach is going

203
00:18:28,135 --> 00:18:31,995
to be something that's incremental. Like it doesn't have to be as, you know, an all or nothing,

204
00:18:32,035 --> 00:18:37,275
an immediate switch. It's about those gradual steps to start doing what you can. And you probably

205
00:18:37,275 --> 00:18:42,915
will do it in increasingly large steps, but to at least make some shift just, just to take that

206
00:18:42,915 --> 00:18:48,855
first step. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So, so in your podcast, you would be talking to more

207
00:18:48,855 --> 00:18:53,555
Bitcoiners and more people on Noster who have already taken further steps and they can already

208
00:18:53,555 --> 00:18:58,835
see that, see this. And, and so they might be still holding on to a little bit, but less than

209
00:18:58,835 --> 00:19:04,355
their friends who haven't even taken step one. Right. And when they look at their friends

210
00:19:04,355 --> 00:19:10,915
compared to their life, I suspect that most people that are listening to your broadcasts

211
00:19:10,915 --> 00:19:13,395
will have already seen a transformation of their life.

212
00:19:14,455 --> 00:19:17,215
And they'll look at their friends that saying,

213
00:19:17,375 --> 00:19:19,875
I can't because I have this, I have this.

214
00:19:20,135 --> 00:19:23,195
And it's just a different relative position to where they are.

215
00:19:23,915 --> 00:19:28,015
And then some people will be further along that transition.

216
00:19:28,615 --> 00:19:31,115
And they'll look at people who are still stuck in the fiat,

217
00:19:31,235 --> 00:19:33,695
telling them kind of straddling both systems,

218
00:19:33,695 --> 00:19:36,695
that'll look at them and say that it's the same thing.

219
00:19:37,055 --> 00:19:38,655
Again, it's all in ourselves.

220
00:19:38,655 --> 00:19:41,975
It's all in our own perspective of what that looks like.

221
00:19:42,735 --> 00:19:48,775
I agree with you generally that I think you could do it in a number of different ways.

222
00:19:48,875 --> 00:19:50,155
I've always been an entrepreneur.

223
00:19:50,495 --> 00:19:55,295
So once I understand something, I want to jump all in, make every mistake I need to make.

224
00:19:55,415 --> 00:19:57,775
Because I learn faster and I just go.

225
00:19:58,095 --> 00:20:00,335
And I don't care about the consequences.

226
00:20:00,595 --> 00:20:02,795
I do a lot of work to say, am I right?

227
00:20:03,315 --> 00:20:04,495
Is this the right thing?

228
00:20:04,495 --> 00:20:10,195
but if that then is aligned then I just make the jump

229
00:20:10,195 --> 00:20:14,015
and I realize that the jump also makes me

230
00:20:14,015 --> 00:20:17,595
that I have agency too

231
00:20:17,595 --> 00:20:20,035
because the right and wrong comes from us

232
00:20:20,035 --> 00:20:25,055
and so I'm right in the new system if the new system

233
00:20:25,055 --> 00:20:29,195
wins and I'm one of the nodes in it

234
00:20:29,195 --> 00:20:30,515
that helps it win

235
00:20:30,515 --> 00:20:38,615
so but for some other people wanting to how do it because i get asked the question you just asked

236
00:20:38,615 --> 00:20:45,695
all the time you could do this you could say okay here is how many hours i spend in the existing

237
00:20:45,695 --> 00:20:53,955
system and what they should do and what i would do if i were is also count the hours that it's

238
00:20:53,955 --> 00:21:00,315
it's usurping your energy by your fear in it what ai is going to do from it what delon must how many

239
00:21:00,315 --> 00:21:06,215
how many times you're listening to the media out of sight out inside that system and how much of

240
00:21:06,215 --> 00:21:11,235
your real time just add up your hours in a day take out eight hours for sleeping and say how much

241
00:21:11,235 --> 00:21:18,235
time uh how much time am i really still cop co-opted into it then i'll have a job or whatever

242
00:21:18,235 --> 00:21:25,655
i have in my business and then take some of that time intentionally draw a box around that time

243
00:21:25,655 --> 00:21:29,115
and say, I'm contributing all of this to the new.

244
00:21:30,175 --> 00:21:33,775
And in that, I'm going to do what I'm best at

245
00:21:33,775 --> 00:21:35,975
and I'm going to provide value to somebody else.

246
00:21:36,955 --> 00:21:43,375
You're doing in podcasts and Audible for other writers and stuff.

247
00:21:44,335 --> 00:21:48,355
Each person will have their unique genius strength and everything else.

248
00:21:48,795 --> 00:21:50,735
And if I don't want to start something myself

249
00:21:50,735 --> 00:21:53,215
to great value for somebody else in this new system,

250
00:21:53,215 --> 00:21:59,595
then who is aligned who else has started something that i'm completely aligned with and i need to now

251
00:21:59,595 --> 00:22:06,195
meet them and tell them why i'm i'm the best for their their business but in the two or three or

252
00:22:06,195 --> 00:22:12,415
four hours that i've chosen the bucket i don't even need to get paid for i'm just doing it as

253
00:22:12,415 --> 00:22:18,275
for learning and then what will happen is that bucket will expand that bucket will expand because

254
00:22:18,275 --> 00:22:23,715
you'll be showing up by providing value to somebody else and you'll learn exactly what

255
00:22:23,715 --> 00:22:29,135
it is to provide value to someone else and you'll then more easily be able to make that jump.

256
00:22:30,515 --> 00:22:35,095
I think that's actually excellent, actionable advice for people to start out. Like you can

257
00:22:35,095 --> 00:22:40,755
just do things, you can just start doing something. And once you, and I think this is the experience

258
00:22:40,755 --> 00:22:48,155
for everyone who has started being involved in Bitcoin, in Nostra, in any of these new open

259
00:22:48,155 --> 00:22:52,995
systems, these parallel systems, as soon as you start, you want to spend more time there.

260
00:22:53,475 --> 00:22:57,555
You naturally, there's, I mean, perhaps you can find an edge case where that's not the case for

261
00:22:57,555 --> 00:23:01,335
somebody, but I would argue if you are doing it in a meaningful way, in a purposeful way and doing

262
00:23:01,335 --> 00:23:06,655
it for the right reasons, the more time you spend, the more time you want to spend. Like that is the

263
00:23:06,655 --> 00:23:11,355
natural progression. And it doesn't mean every business idea is going to work. The free market

264
00:23:11,355 --> 00:23:12,135
It is brutal.

265
00:23:12,495 --> 00:23:16,135
Like, it's brutal to create value for somebody else.

266
00:23:16,855 --> 00:23:20,375
You have to create value for somebody else.

267
00:23:20,375 --> 00:23:23,435
And other people are trying to create value, too.

268
00:23:23,995 --> 00:23:28,815
So you have to do better to provide value to somebody else.

269
00:23:28,895 --> 00:23:32,375
But just remember, if you're making just even a little bit of sats

270
00:23:32,375 --> 00:23:37,655
that are a 45% IRR against the existing system,

271
00:23:38,175 --> 00:23:40,035
that's valuable time.

272
00:23:40,035 --> 00:23:45,555
those sats are going to be worth a lot of money in time if you can just compound those sats you

273
00:23:45,555 --> 00:23:50,415
don't have to make if you're making eight thousand dollars a month in one system you don't have to

274
00:23:50,415 --> 00:23:55,555
and you're carving out some some hours in this you don't have to make eight thousand a month in

275
00:23:55,555 --> 00:24:00,095
bitcoin and then because that's what people are doing right they're measuring the other system

276
00:24:00,095 --> 00:24:03,995
that's being debased and they're not they're scared to it because they have to replace the

277
00:24:03,995 --> 00:24:12,675
whole thing yeah and there is something uh something very freeing about uh getting paid

278
00:24:12,675 --> 00:24:17,395
by somebody else for value you've created in bitcoin without the fiat rails being involved

279
00:24:17,395 --> 00:24:24,775
at all it's awesome it's it because it's just it's just freeing right like you you know that

280
00:24:24,775 --> 00:24:28,835
there's you're not waiting to see uh some fake numbers appear in your bank that they don't

281
00:24:28,835 --> 00:24:32,555
actually have like you're not waiting for somebody to change their centralized spreadsheet it's like

282
00:24:32,555 --> 00:24:38,375
nope that's that's there in my wallet and i can verify that on my node and that's a really

283
00:24:38,375 --> 00:24:46,875
beautiful feeling you want a uh a funny story to just so uh so my kids are on nostril too they're

284
00:24:46,875 --> 00:24:53,615
not well known on nostril they're not on it all the time but uh but they they do you uh

285
00:24:53,615 --> 00:25:01,655
um my my son we moved here he wanted a boat he really wants to put he loves fishing and

286
00:25:01,655 --> 00:25:02,795
everything else wants a book.

287
00:25:03,515 --> 00:25:06,375
And we're at dinner just on the, on the balcony.

288
00:25:08,135 --> 00:25:09,435
And I, oh wow.

289
00:25:09,435 --> 00:25:11,835
Somebody sent me value for value.

290
00:25:11,835 --> 00:25:16,115
And because it still feels like when somebody says you changed my life and

291
00:25:16,115 --> 00:25:20,195
you, and they sent me, I think in that case, they sent me 50,000 sats.

292
00:25:20,735 --> 00:25:23,015
And it's like, it means something.

293
00:25:23,095 --> 00:25:24,755
And so I just don't tell.

294
00:25:26,035 --> 00:25:30,775
It's my wife that when I get, oh, I got another one, but this one has a note.

295
00:25:30,775 --> 00:25:33,035
You're the best dad in the world for buying a boat.

296
00:25:36,735 --> 00:25:37,795
Oh, that's good.

297
00:25:38,635 --> 00:25:39,335
That's good.

298
00:25:39,795 --> 00:25:40,415
Pretty smart.

299
00:25:40,995 --> 00:25:42,435
That is very smart.

300
00:25:42,755 --> 00:25:42,935
Yeah.

301
00:25:43,895 --> 00:25:47,415
Well, can I ask a slight tangent here?

302
00:25:48,635 --> 00:25:53,175
Can we talk about at all the fact that you have changed locations?

303
00:25:53,415 --> 00:25:54,995
We don't have to say the new location that you're at.

304
00:25:56,595 --> 00:25:58,215
You've been public with.

305
00:25:58,915 --> 00:25:59,095
Okay.

306
00:25:59,555 --> 00:26:01,155
You left Canada.

307
00:26:01,575 --> 00:26:02,615
Maybe I can just say that broadly.

308
00:26:02,955 --> 00:26:03,155
Yes.

309
00:26:03,515 --> 00:26:06,215
Can we talk about the why a little bit?

310
00:26:06,395 --> 00:26:13,735
Because I think that I've met so many incredibly based Canadians that I probably never would have the chance to meet if it were not for Bitcoin.

311
00:26:14,115 --> 00:26:17,855
Now I know more Canadians that I can shake a bottle of maple syrup at.

312
00:26:18,595 --> 00:26:21,395
But why did you decide to leave Canada?

313
00:26:22,175 --> 00:26:28,775
So you can see that Canada is going to experience a lot more pain before it gets better.

314
00:26:29,095 --> 00:26:36,375
you can see um you can see when it's it's not that it's not that carney was elected

315
00:26:36,375 --> 00:26:42,615
it was carney was elected with supposedly open my open-minded people that understood the problem

316
00:26:43,175 --> 00:26:47,735
so you can you cannot you realize that most people don't understand the problem and they're just

317
00:26:47,735 --> 00:26:53,335
trying to do whatever short-termism to get more money from a system that spends their money

318
00:26:53,335 --> 00:27:01,655
and manipulates it and that leads to inevitable collapse or or or a very different

319
00:27:03,655 --> 00:27:11,735
world than when i grew up in canada and and from there um so i i've always been pretty good at

320
00:27:11,735 --> 00:27:18,135
seeing the future um and and a part of that is understanding what what system you're in what

321
00:27:18,135 --> 00:27:18,795
What does it look like?

322
00:27:18,855 --> 00:27:23,035
What are the next things that have to happen, not might happen?

323
00:27:23,195 --> 00:27:25,155
What are the next things that have to happen out of that?

324
00:27:26,235 --> 00:27:30,415
And so capital controls will come.

325
00:27:30,895 --> 00:27:32,015
Taxes are going to go way up.

326
00:27:32,095 --> 00:27:33,395
They're already 54%.

327
00:27:33,395 --> 00:27:34,255
They're going to go way up.

328
00:27:34,255 --> 00:27:39,495
The medical system might as well be insolvent because you can't get in for anything.

329
00:27:40,655 --> 00:27:53,029
It brutal And so I watched these things change and accelerating change getting worse and and just like in the u and in many other countries you have

330
00:27:53,029 --> 00:28:00,070
two sides fighting against each uh each other making that system stronger

331
00:28:00,070 --> 00:28:09,669
um without any resolve to what are the underlying root cause um and and even pierre

332
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:13,709
who I was helping understand this

333
00:28:13,709 --> 00:28:17,469
I think he made a tragic error

334
00:28:17,469 --> 00:28:20,549
and if he knew it was Bitcoin

335
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:23,949
he should have gone hard to the hoop

336
00:28:23,949 --> 00:28:26,269
and said that to the world

337
00:28:26,269 --> 00:28:27,469
just like Pichelli did

338
00:28:27,469 --> 00:28:31,209
instead of trying to straddle this

339
00:28:31,209 --> 00:28:36,029
and so when Carney got elected

340
00:28:36,029 --> 00:28:37,549
and Carney, it's the same Carney

341
00:28:37,549 --> 00:28:40,570
that created the nightmare that is the UK today.

342
00:28:42,049 --> 00:28:45,830
And his own money is protected all around the world

343
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:49,909
in trusts and caimans and everything else.

344
00:28:50,249 --> 00:28:52,090
Yet he comes to Canada and gets elected

345
00:28:52,090 --> 00:28:55,570
as almost a majority in Canada.

346
00:28:56,229 --> 00:29:01,009
He just realized, huh, this is a sign.

347
00:29:01,169 --> 00:29:03,350
And if I don't listen to this sign,

348
00:29:03,469 --> 00:29:05,689
then it's time, then it's shame on me.

349
00:29:05,689 --> 00:29:14,369
no that's not easy to do it is like you you know you've been to my lake house you know the type of

350
00:29:14,369 --> 00:29:24,350
deep relationships everything else that that that looks like so to pick up and move that's not a

351
00:29:24,350 --> 00:29:30,570
that's not an easy thing to do either i just when i'm weighing the pros cons what's going to happen

352
00:29:30,570 --> 00:29:37,809
number of systems. I've been saying on podcasts for a long time that, that not for fear of what's

353
00:29:37,809 --> 00:29:43,949
happening, but for flexibility and the new system that's being built, you have to design flexibility.

354
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:50,449
Because what the, the curve balls that are going to come, there's going to be lots of curve balls.

355
00:29:50,830 --> 00:29:56,129
And so I didn't want to just knowing that myself, knowing where things are going, I just didn't want

356
00:29:56,129 --> 00:30:02,570
to be trapped and uh trapped i mean i think that's that's understandable and yeah i cannot

357
00:30:02,570 --> 00:30:08,689
imagine the difficulty of making that move but knowing that move needs to be made right i mean

358
00:30:08,689 --> 00:30:13,409
like it's like you you knew you needed to do it that doesn't make it any easier to do from just a

359
00:30:13,409 --> 00:30:18,109
personal uh or interpersonal or emotional standpoint like it doesn't doesn't ease that

360
00:30:18,109 --> 00:30:22,090
it's just like well you know yeah you you have to you know the decision you have to make but

361
00:30:22,090 --> 00:30:27,049
it's it's not a fun one to need to make you'd rather not have to make it you'd rather it not

362
00:30:27,049 --> 00:30:31,869
be the case that you're worried about capital controls and an increasingly you know increasingly

363
00:30:31,869 --> 00:30:39,590
hostile government yeah hostile one that's censoring information that yeah you don't but

364
00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:46,009
but all the signs are there um ignoring those signs is worse putting your head in the sand saying

365
00:30:46,009 --> 00:30:52,649
my lawyer said yeah i was just with him last week he came down to el salvador and he said

366
00:30:52,649 --> 00:30:59,189
all the shepherds are leaving canada to leave only the sheep to get preyed upon

367
00:30:59,189 --> 00:31:09,009
to get eaten by the wolves god so well it's i mean maybe that's a it's a good way to transition to

368
00:31:09,009 --> 00:31:12,809
uh talking about el salvador a little bit because you were just there this is a

369
00:31:12,809 --> 00:31:18,429
a country that appears to be going the opposite way of many in the so-called developed world.

370
00:31:19,090 --> 00:31:24,889
There's a lot of controversy, obviously, much of it, I think, perhaps manufactured around Bukele,

371
00:31:24,949 --> 00:31:29,409
and we can talk about that a little bit. But can you talk a bit about why you were in El Salvador

372
00:31:29,409 --> 00:31:35,849
this time, the Bitcoin Historico, the event that you helped to put on and all this? Can you talk

373
00:31:35,849 --> 00:31:40,330
a little bit about why, as somebody, you have a lot of demands in your time, your attention is

374
00:31:40,330 --> 00:31:45,209
begged to be pulled in many directions. Why was this something that you felt it important to focus

375
00:31:45,209 --> 00:31:52,689
on now? Yeah. So when the IMF went into El Salvador and a whole bunch of people attacked

376
00:31:52,689 --> 00:32:00,549
Pichelli, and maybe rightly so, or just kind of what's happening here, because we all know,

377
00:32:00,789 --> 00:32:08,049
which is in Bitcoin, that these systems are incompatible. I got a call saying that the

378
00:32:08,049 --> 00:32:14,689
president wanted to meet me here's uh yeah here's what the alarm bells that went off in my head

379
00:32:14,689 --> 00:32:24,129
here's exactly the story i told myself great because at least in my mind i'm unbuyable i know

380
00:32:24,129 --> 00:32:29,590
where this is going and i'm going to spend my time in this so so i don't care who you are like i

381
00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:33,889
literally that doesn't matter you could be the richest person in the world i don't get fast i'm

382
00:32:33,889 --> 00:32:40,289
not fascinated by that at all. I'm more, I care who people are rather than what they have.

383
00:32:41,330 --> 00:32:50,049
So what I went on in my mind is great. He wants me to come there, take a photo up so he can say

384
00:32:50,049 --> 00:32:57,070
I'm still a Bitcoiner and try to get back on side with Bitcoiners. That's truly what I thought.

385
00:32:57,070 --> 00:33:04,249
but i but i thought i'm gonna go anyways because i want to look into his eyes and and understand

386
00:33:04,249 --> 00:33:12,369
my questions um not through third parties not through all the nonsense i want to understand

387
00:33:12,369 --> 00:33:16,609
my own questions so i went and the meeting was supposed to be half an hour and ended up being

388
00:33:16,609 --> 00:33:21,749
two and a half hours well and we we talked about the same things you and i have talked about walker

389
00:33:21,749 --> 00:33:30,869
we talked about how deep this is, how the system would always look broken, how hard that would be to get out of that trap.

390
00:33:33,129 --> 00:33:42,109
That Bitcoin wasn't yet big enough for a country for him to actually remain in power and to deliver services like water, sewer, roads,

391
00:33:42,109 --> 00:33:51,909
and ensure that the population was moving towards the Bitcoin standard.

392
00:33:52,629 --> 00:33:54,229
He said, so I have to do both.

393
00:33:54,969 --> 00:33:55,909
I need the money.

394
00:33:57,769 --> 00:34:03,249
But I also know that money comes with a catch

395
00:34:03,249 --> 00:34:09,810
and that the money looks to me like I'm this little pawn of a system.

396
00:34:10,149 --> 00:34:11,349
I'm a rat.

397
00:34:12,109 --> 00:34:18,970
and I'm going to take the cheese. And, and these are precise words. I'm going to take the cheese.

398
00:34:19,490 --> 00:34:27,229
Um, and then they're going to catch me in the trap. But then he said this, but if my citizens

399
00:34:27,229 --> 00:34:35,349
run notes, go into self custody and pay in Bitcoin, then I can get the cheese,

400
00:34:35,349 --> 00:34:43,269
get out of the trap and actually free my citizens. And I went, wow. And so this was in the meeting,

401
00:34:43,349 --> 00:34:51,109
so about five months ago, six months ago. And I went, wow, I've never, actually, I've never met

402
00:34:51,109 --> 00:34:56,849
any leader who could articulate this like that, which both he and I knew.

403
00:34:56,849 --> 00:35:01,970
So, so I agreed to help him put on this conference.

404
00:35:02,849 --> 00:35:07,189
Stacy and I kind of leaned in and put on this conference and try to put on a

405
00:35:07,189 --> 00:35:08,029
conference like this.

406
00:35:08,029 --> 00:35:11,929
And I think we had four months to do it and get competed with other events at

407
00:35:11,929 --> 00:35:15,409
the same time, but we didn't, we wanted to put it on at the same time as

408
00:35:15,409 --> 00:35:19,909
adopting Bitcoin because we're just before, so this people can go to both.

409
00:35:19,909 --> 00:35:30,029
and and um but i realized okay what is my risk reward what is my people are going to say okay

410
00:35:30,029 --> 00:35:37,329
you're just a shill for the state and i don't care actually what people say so i just know the the um

411
00:35:37,329 --> 00:35:47,329
but the um aligning myself to that giving me a stage where i could tell the citizens

412
00:35:47,329 --> 00:35:51,229
that they need to be in self-custody and paying Bitcoin and that,

413
00:35:51,709 --> 00:35:54,329
then even if he changed his mind later on,

414
00:35:55,709 --> 00:35:57,549
my work helped.

415
00:35:58,589 --> 00:35:59,709
We would free people.

416
00:36:00,970 --> 00:36:06,010
But more so, I think he's actually committed to this.

417
00:36:06,010 --> 00:36:10,369
I actually believe that he's protecting that.

418
00:36:11,049 --> 00:36:13,010
He's going to allow that to be protected.

419
00:36:13,889 --> 00:36:15,749
He'll stand up for that.

420
00:36:15,749 --> 00:36:23,749
and and that means the agency isn't his it's not up to him it's up to the citizens to do that

421
00:36:23,749 --> 00:36:31,169
and they have and they have agency now to be able to to be able to do that um and what you see as a

422
00:36:31,169 --> 00:36:36,790
result and what you see as a result kind of and you you can you can feel this when you go to el

423
00:36:36,790 --> 00:36:43,689
salvador the change from three years ago when i went the first time to right now it is so remarkable

424
00:36:43,689 --> 00:36:45,810
Have you been there yet, Walker?

425
00:36:45,970 --> 00:36:49,349
Twice in 2022 and once this past January.

426
00:36:49,729 --> 00:36:53,209
So I also saw the multi-year difference and it was incredible.

427
00:36:53,629 --> 00:36:59,349
So even this time compared to last time six months ago, like that center square in San Salvador,

428
00:36:59,569 --> 00:37:06,189
which the first time I needed armed guards to, and I wasn't able to get out of the car,

429
00:37:06,189 --> 00:37:12,269
to to now have families like 12 o'clock at the night at night families

430
00:37:12,269 --> 00:37:24,729
sorry wait one second you're good you're good the um and and full like crazy full people laughing

431
00:37:24,729 --> 00:37:32,629
the the street vendors it was so wild the the bitcoin historical they they had all the speeches

432
00:37:32,629 --> 00:37:39,510
translated to spanish and this that square was full the entire day uh entire day and into into

433
00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:46,229
the night with people celebrating it was wild it was it was it was it was so hopeful you actually

434
00:37:46,229 --> 00:37:53,069
it's so palpable it's great it's still things to do in el salvador right there's still roads is

435
00:37:53,069 --> 00:38:01,569
busy and everything else but to see people them talk about what he's done for it like you said

436
00:38:01,569 --> 00:38:09,470
like you said you when you've been there it is wild and then to hear people elsewhere talk about

437
00:38:09,470 --> 00:38:16,810
El Salvador as a dictator when he cannot be a dictator for if if all the power goes to his people

438
00:38:16,810 --> 00:38:24,929
to to watch them try to try to talk about what it looks like this when they have never been

439
00:38:24,929 --> 00:38:27,310
and in their own country it's going the other way

440
00:38:27,310 --> 00:38:35,010
it's wild right so i would i would encourage people to if you believe something go see for

441
00:38:35,010 --> 00:38:41,169
yourself go see it and talk for yourself talk to people yourself and see why he has kind of a 92 93

442
00:38:41,169 --> 00:38:51,729
approval rating people wouldn't say that if they were in fear yeah this was this was my experience

443
00:38:51,729 --> 00:38:59,169
as well. And the thing that you mentioned about the palpability of the, like just the energy,

444
00:38:59,249 --> 00:39:04,589
the hope there, that was my first, even in 2022, when Carl and I went there, we went there first

445
00:39:04,589 --> 00:39:10,169
time just, just purely to have like a small, small vacation there. Like we, you know, went there and

446
00:39:10,169 --> 00:39:14,029
meanwhile, all of, you know, friends, friends and family are El Salvador. Are you sure that's safe?

447
00:39:14,089 --> 00:39:19,709
And at this point we were like, well, yeah, like there's a, there's somebody new in charge now,

448
00:39:19,709 --> 00:39:21,329
But that's all anyone knew about El Salvador.

449
00:39:21,749 --> 00:39:23,389
All they knew was that it was just this.

450
00:39:23,749 --> 00:39:29,649
This is funny coming from people who live in Chicago where, you know, like El Salvador is, trust me, a much safer place than Chicago.

451
00:39:30,709 --> 00:39:31,109
Yeah.

452
00:39:32,369 --> 00:39:33,269
Enough said there.

453
00:39:34,109 --> 00:39:37,689
When in 22 did you go?

454
00:39:38,249 --> 00:39:40,849
August of August of 2022.

455
00:39:40,849 --> 00:39:42,269
And then we came back again.

456
00:39:42,349 --> 00:39:43,329
We didn't know we were going to.

457
00:39:43,389 --> 00:39:44,189
We were excited to come back.

458
00:39:44,229 --> 00:39:44,909
Didn't know when it would be.

459
00:39:45,069 --> 00:39:46,409
We got asked to come to Adopting Bitcoin.

460
00:39:46,409 --> 00:39:49,909
and so we were back there a couple months later.

461
00:39:50,269 --> 00:39:51,649
So that was fantastic.

462
00:39:52,089 --> 00:39:53,970
So I went the first time in March

463
00:39:53,970 --> 00:39:57,389
and so there was a conference

464
00:39:57,389 --> 00:39:59,829
that they asked me to keynote there

465
00:39:59,829 --> 00:40:02,329
and I went because Bitcoin country,

466
00:40:02,509 --> 00:40:03,429
first Bitcoin country,

467
00:40:03,549 --> 00:40:04,709
I wanted to see it for myself.

468
00:40:05,569 --> 00:40:07,429
And the day before we went,

469
00:40:07,609 --> 00:40:08,990
my whole family was going,

470
00:40:09,249 --> 00:40:11,349
we were in Mexico flying there.

471
00:40:11,470 --> 00:40:13,829
The day before was all the gang warfare

472
00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:20,189
and we're 80 something 60 or 80 i might have the number wrong but in that neighborhood people

473
00:40:20,189 --> 00:40:27,970
killed all across the country tourists all different uh people and and we still went we

474
00:40:27,970 --> 00:40:33,329
still got on the plane but there was you can imagine what my family was thinking when we went

475
00:40:33,329 --> 00:40:37,790
and bitcoin beach but even at that time bitcoin beach and all the people who flew in from around

476
00:40:37,790 --> 00:40:44,369
the world there was still that hope there was still a that that glimmer of is this real is that

477
00:40:44,369 --> 00:40:49,389
but that's not but i think that's not what surprised me what surprised me and i'm almost

478
00:40:49,389 --> 00:40:55,209
positive that this happened right so if you had an elected leader that went into bitcoin

479
00:40:55,209 --> 00:41:00,249
and knew bitcoin he was a bitcoiner before he was elected leader right he actually there's a post

480
00:41:00,249 --> 00:41:06,349
that he said what even before he was running that i'm going to bitcoin right a long time ago

481
00:41:06,349 --> 00:41:16,889
And so if you'd elect a leader that did that, that put a shot across the bow of the IMF, World Bank, every single other thing, what would you expect to happen?

482
00:41:17,810 --> 00:41:26,929
Would you expect to, because here's another thing that I spent three hours with John Perkins, Diary of Economic Hitman.

483
00:41:27,269 --> 00:41:29,049
Incredible book for anyone who hasn't read it.

484
00:41:29,589 --> 00:41:46,864
And what he said is we went in with bag of money in one hand for the people gun in the other And we will back channel whatever it takes to get you out so choose what you want do you want to get rich or do you want to be deposed said specifically what

485
00:41:46,864 --> 00:41:51,904
so what would you expect knowing that the world's always looked like this that it's always been a

486
00:41:51,904 --> 00:42:00,184
control system that that if if somebody went to bitcoin you would expect the gun to come out

487
00:42:00,184 --> 00:42:07,184
because it had to and what would the gun look like wouldn't it be a back channel talk to

488
00:42:07,184 --> 00:42:15,244
gangs that you helped create the opium trade or the the training what to be able to do something

489
00:42:15,244 --> 00:42:20,244
to weaken a president with a high approval rating that's exactly what it would look like why do i

490
00:42:20,244 --> 00:42:26,764
think that happened why do i almost know that that happened because because it was like a singular

491
00:42:26,764 --> 00:42:37,504
media response that when he locked everybody up every coordinated media it was wild i like i

492
00:42:37,504 --> 00:42:43,864
couldn't believe coming from el salvador and and what the citizens were saying versus what the

493
00:42:43,864 --> 00:42:52,404
media was saying i went wow right because what i think what happened is is is the system was caught

494
00:42:52,404 --> 00:42:58,064
flat-footed when he locked everyone up and they responded to try to weaken them through through

495
00:42:58,064 --> 00:43:02,824
the media through a whole bunch of people that had never stepped foot in dale silver who didn't

496
00:43:02,824 --> 00:43:08,224
care about they didn't care about it existence when it had the crazy high most dangerous place

497
00:43:08,224 --> 00:43:14,084
in the world who then talk about him as a dictator and a bitcoiner can't be a dictator for long

498
00:43:14,084 --> 00:43:20,384
because they're giving their power to somebody else um i just find these i find these things

499
00:43:20,384 --> 00:43:26,444
even how I think through these things in a system that has to look like this.

500
00:43:26,824 --> 00:43:30,624
I find these things just fascinating how many people get trapped

501
00:43:30,624 --> 00:43:34,744
kind of through the lens of the world that they've always looked at.

502
00:43:35,424 --> 00:43:37,084
They don't know they're trapped in it.

503
00:43:39,024 --> 00:43:42,604
I think that it's a really important point that you brought up about

504
00:43:42,604 --> 00:43:47,624
a bitcoiner couldn't stay a dictator for long, right?

505
00:43:47,624 --> 00:43:59,184
You're essentially, by being pro-Bitcoin, by encouraging your citizens to use Bitcoin, not just as a store of value or hold a Bitcoin ETF, but, or, you know, buy my Bitcoin treasury company.

506
00:43:59,264 --> 00:44:03,964
No, no, by encouraging them to run a node, to use it as a medium of exchange, to engage in commerce with Bitcoin.

507
00:44:05,104 --> 00:44:13,964
You are sowing the seeds of your own demise because what is, like, if you want total control, you necessarily must have total control of the money.

508
00:44:13,964 --> 00:44:21,524
you you're giving your power away to them you're you're giving your agency away to them the only

509
00:44:21,524 --> 00:44:28,384
way you could be you could still be elected is if they chose um so it's impossible to be a dictator

510
00:44:28,384 --> 00:44:35,144
on bitcoin impossible maybe for a very short period of time or possible if you were fooling

511
00:44:35,144 --> 00:44:41,904
them and and it was all in let's imagine it's chivo wallet and that was that was all self

512
00:44:41,904 --> 00:44:48,164
custody of it and you rug them later on, right? You could do it then. Or if you told them to go

513
00:44:48,164 --> 00:44:53,244
into a stable coin that then you rug them later on. But if you told them to get into self custody,

514
00:44:53,244 --> 00:44:58,424
run a node, so they have agency and spend in Bitcoin, you couldn't be a dictator.

515
00:45:00,304 --> 00:45:03,384
One of the remarkable things to me and something that I think that people,

516
00:45:04,204 --> 00:45:09,604
as they think about power structures in countries, generally, whatever country this is,

517
00:45:09,604 --> 00:45:21,724
One thing that is not discussed enough is the educational systems in these countries and what the product of those educational systems is, what kind of adults they produce, what kind of adults they mold out of kids.

518
00:45:21,724 --> 00:45:30,824
And one of the things that was, I mean, remarkable to me, the first time we were in El Salvador, we got to know, you know, Roman Martinez, Jimbera.

519
00:45:31,344 --> 00:45:37,624
And he took us on a little excursion and took us to a school up in the mountains.

520
00:45:38,364 --> 00:45:42,544
And we sent kids sets and they learned how to set up a wall.

521
00:45:42,724 --> 00:45:43,804
And they do this everywhere.

522
00:45:43,944 --> 00:45:51,004
And there's now, this was like a totally grassroots initiative, but there's obviously these like different government initiatives now with this too, with this education.

523
00:45:51,724 --> 00:46:11,184
And it's really wild to think about the fact that in El Salvador, okay, say what you will about any other parts of it, you cannot deny that there are more young kids being educated about how to actually use Bitcoin, how to use freedom money, than anywhere else in the world.

524
00:46:11,844 --> 00:46:13,644
There are more young kids who know how to do it than adults.

525
00:46:13,644 --> 00:46:20,544
One of the earliest people out of Kubo Plus was a person named Mario.

526
00:46:20,544 --> 00:46:26,844
he now runs the ai uh ai initiative for the government he's one of those uh the senior

527
00:46:26,844 --> 00:46:34,344
directors of the whole initiative he's brilliant he understands bitcoin perfectly the the this is

528
00:46:34,344 --> 00:46:41,684
integrate now if you had a nation full of people who had never had free economic freedom or freedom

529
00:46:41,684 --> 00:46:47,764
and they were always living under fear and then you implemented this new thing it might take a

530
00:46:47,764 --> 00:46:53,484
while for people to trust, right? And to develop the capability and the capacity to be able to do

531
00:46:53,484 --> 00:46:57,604
the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. So there is some truth to

532
00:46:57,604 --> 00:47:07,184
Bukele is kind of a bold, courageous leader on this. And the capability is building from

533
00:47:07,184 --> 00:47:13,164
the inside of the team. And sometimes there's step forward, step back and everything else.

534
00:47:13,164 --> 00:47:20,644
But when you see that, when you're talking about Walker, that hope and what people are feeling, that's what they're feeling.

535
00:47:21,384 --> 00:47:34,644
And then when they see someone else start with the same thing and nothing and just go to this program and then take their own initiative and go to this, then it paves the way for a whole bunch of other people to see themselves in that freedom.

536
00:47:34,644 --> 00:47:38,024
and that I think is

537
00:47:38,024 --> 00:47:40,244
is kind of what's remarkable like this isn't

538
00:47:40,244 --> 00:47:42,244
or perhaps

539
00:47:42,244 --> 00:47:43,184
maybe I should say this

540
00:47:43,184 --> 00:47:46,424
what I think is really incredible about what's happening in El Salvador

541
00:47:46,424 --> 00:47:47,824
is that this was actually

542
00:47:47,824 --> 00:47:50,164
this was a grassroots bottom up

543
00:47:50,164 --> 00:47:51,984
movement from the start

544
00:47:51,984 --> 00:47:54,044
yes there is now

545
00:47:54,044 --> 00:47:55,824
the government is getting on board with it

546
00:47:55,824 --> 00:47:58,024
but if a government wants to control

547
00:47:58,024 --> 00:47:58,644
its people

548
00:47:58,644 --> 00:48:01,844
this is set off I mean I think Gladstein is one of the

549
00:48:01,844 --> 00:48:02,444
maybe the

550
00:48:02,444 --> 00:48:08,684
I don't know if he's the first or one who popularized it, but you know, like dictators don't like Bitcoin.

551
00:48:09,024 --> 00:48:10,644
Bitcoin is not good for dictators, right?

552
00:48:10,684 --> 00:48:13,084
It's just, this is a fact.

553
00:48:13,084 --> 00:48:22,624
So if you want to be in total control, the worst thing that you could do is educate your people about a money that allows them to completely subvert the state's control on money.

554
00:48:23,124 --> 00:48:23,184
Yeah.

555
00:48:23,284 --> 00:48:26,244
The worst thing you could do is teach them how to be totally in.

556
00:48:28,424 --> 00:48:29,484
They have agency.

557
00:48:29,924 --> 00:48:30,304
The worst thing.

558
00:48:30,304 --> 00:48:36,224
And so imagine he carries this on.

559
00:48:36,864 --> 00:48:40,044
He won't just be the most important leader in El Salvador.

560
00:48:40,324 --> 00:48:43,764
He won't just be the most important leader in Central America and South America.

561
00:48:44,264 --> 00:48:50,804
He might, by other people doing the same thing in their countries,

562
00:48:50,984 --> 00:48:56,584
he might be one of the most important leaders ever by allowing that to expand.

563
00:48:56,584 --> 00:49:02,324
and his citizens, first his citizens and other people who take notice around the world

564
00:49:02,324 --> 00:49:08,324
of what he's inspired there, are the beneficiaries.

565
00:49:11,024 --> 00:49:13,304
It's very interesting.

566
00:49:13,424 --> 00:49:16,304
I mean, I think this is one of those cases where actions speak louder than words.

567
00:49:17,124 --> 00:49:24,044
And in the U.S., for example, there has been a lot of talk about various,

568
00:49:24,044 --> 00:49:30,204
like being extremely pro-Bitcoin and pro-crypto and all these things.

569
00:49:30,204 --> 00:49:32,204
Yeah, crypto and link coins and lancets.

570
00:49:32,204 --> 00:49:39,644
Right. And if that's the case, and this is truly the current administration, the US really supports

571
00:49:39,644 --> 00:49:45,484
the freedom of software developers to write open source software and such, one would think that

572
00:49:45,484 --> 00:49:49,204
the samurai devs would be pardoned post-haste.

573
00:49:50,164 --> 00:49:52,204
One would think that, you know,

574
00:49:53,364 --> 00:49:54,944
Roman Storm and all these other,

575
00:49:55,084 --> 00:49:57,264
you know, the Bitcoin fog and Tornado Cash

576
00:49:57,264 --> 00:49:57,844
and all these other,

577
00:49:57,964 --> 00:50:00,264
because even if you were developing an Ethereum mixer,

578
00:50:00,384 --> 00:50:01,524
that to me, I don't care.

579
00:50:01,744 --> 00:50:02,864
I may be a Bitcoin maximalist,

580
00:50:02,904 --> 00:50:03,584
but I'm also a,

581
00:50:03,864 --> 00:50:05,204
if you're writing open source software

582
00:50:05,204 --> 00:50:06,384
and not controlling people's funds,

583
00:50:06,504 --> 00:50:08,364
the government has no business throwing you in jail.

584
00:50:08,704 --> 00:50:09,964
Like that seems pretty obvious to me,

585
00:50:10,004 --> 00:50:11,344
but we're not seeing that.

586
00:50:11,404 --> 00:50:12,084
I hope that we do.

587
00:50:12,464 --> 00:50:13,504
I really hope that we do.

588
00:50:13,664 --> 00:50:15,164
I know there's a lot of people pushing on that.

589
00:50:15,164 --> 00:50:23,324
I just had Angela McArdle on the show and she was talking about that, the efforts to really push the administration to say, hey, look, this isn't right.

590
00:50:23,544 --> 00:50:24,624
This is anti-American.

591
00:50:25,964 --> 00:50:28,504
I don't know.

592
00:50:28,504 --> 00:50:36,984
I'm hopeful that Bitcoin and the ethos of Bitcoin pervades more and more countries around the world.

593
00:50:37,104 --> 00:50:44,324
But right now, if I look at Europe, I mean, Switzerland, obviously, I was just there for, you know, Lugano Plan B.

594
00:50:44,324 --> 00:50:48,304
Switzerland's kind of a different breed, right? Like, you know, it's, it's, it's a,

595
00:50:48,964 --> 00:50:54,164
a whole different type of animal there. The rest of Europe, boy, it looks like they're going down

596
00:50:54,164 --> 00:50:58,364
some dark paths. The UK is undeniably, they're not Europe anymore, you know, technically not in

597
00:50:58,364 --> 00:51:03,644
the EU, but they're going down a very dark path. I see a lot of this all over the world. I mean,

598
00:51:03,644 --> 00:51:08,024
we're seeing some of this prosecution of open source developers in the U S thankfully, we're

599
00:51:08,024 --> 00:51:11,724
not seeing people locked up for memes yet in the United States. Hopefully we don't get there, but

600
00:51:11,724 --> 00:51:16,484
But I mean, do you think we, is there a rebalancing of the world happening?

601
00:51:17,064 --> 00:51:19,504
Because a lot of people look at El Salvador and say, that's just a little country.

602
00:51:19,624 --> 00:51:22,704
That does, you know, yeah, that's a nice little experiment, but it's just a little country.

603
00:51:22,804 --> 00:51:24,244
That's not, that doesn't move the needle.

604
00:51:25,284 --> 00:51:32,644
So my honest opinion is this is going to take longer and be more chaotic than most people

605
00:51:32,644 --> 00:51:33,344
realize.

606
00:51:33,664 --> 00:51:34,344
And why?

607
00:51:34,764 --> 00:51:38,284
Because those people are still giving their energy to that system.

608
00:51:39,284 --> 00:51:40,504
And they think they're not.

609
00:51:40,504 --> 00:51:50,544
they think because they hold bitcoin they're not um the um and inside so so why i constantly how

610
00:51:50,544 --> 00:51:55,484
many times have i said the same thing the natural state of the free market is deflation because it's

611
00:51:55,484 --> 00:52:03,784
actually the only thing you need to know um to realize if you're living in it or not prices should

612
00:52:03,784 --> 00:52:09,824
fall and and when you went and you should get more value forever right if you're living in a

613
00:52:09,824 --> 00:52:16,684
more free market and the more people that freedom is very different than potentially controlled

614
00:52:16,684 --> 00:52:21,944
system it's like they're they're binary there cannot be they cannot exist together one system

615
00:52:21,944 --> 00:52:28,924
gets worse it has to be a complete surveillance state one system gets better your time is going

616
00:52:28,924 --> 00:52:35,864
to tell you which system is going to win but they cannot coexist it's impossible that they coexist

617
00:52:35,864 --> 00:52:42,964
And so exponential technology should free you faster and faster and faster.

618
00:52:43,724 --> 00:52:48,804
And you will use the AI that removes labor because it gives you more value.

619
00:52:50,024 --> 00:52:56,704
If you're doing that from the system of manipulated money, then you are the control system.

620
00:52:58,924 --> 00:53:00,324
You're inside it.

621
00:53:00,324 --> 00:53:10,084
well walker i say this over and over again because it's so critical that people choose

622
00:53:10,084 --> 00:53:18,024
it's so critical that people choose and and move uh and move their time the vast majority won't

623
00:53:18,024 --> 00:53:23,784
but it doesn't need to be the vast majority it just needs to be enough to move this other system

624
00:53:23,784 --> 00:53:30,044
when maybe we'll talk a little bit about feddy and and why that's a key piece of this system in

625
00:53:30,044 --> 00:53:38,524
my mind why that had to exist before this centralized system co-opted people.

626
00:53:39,704 --> 00:53:44,544
But the vast majority of people I watch are still measuring in the fiat system and they

627
00:53:44,544 --> 00:53:45,084
don't know it.

628
00:53:45,244 --> 00:53:48,664
And remember, that's just the Bitcoiners I'm talking about.

629
00:53:49,244 --> 00:53:55,384
Most others, the 99% of the others are still completely in the other system.

630
00:53:55,384 --> 00:54:02,284
I let's this is actually a very good bridge to Fetty because something that I've been thinking

631
00:54:02,284 --> 00:54:06,864
about and trying to talk about as much as possible recently is just this idea that

632
00:54:06,864 --> 00:54:12,344
we're we live in this incredible time where we actually have the tools to be able to take our

633
00:54:12,344 --> 00:54:15,544
freedoms right government doesn't give us any freedoms we have to take them government can

634
00:54:15,544 --> 00:54:20,264
protect can enshrine laws which protect the freedoms that we have legally but they can't

635
00:54:20,264 --> 00:54:25,264
give us those freedoms right we have to take them we that's that and luckily we can take them in

636
00:54:25,264 --> 00:54:31,424
nonviolent ways through the beauty and the incredible advancement of cryptography, through

637
00:54:31,424 --> 00:54:37,744
Bitcoin, through open protocols, open source protocols, through near perfect privacy preserving

638
00:54:37,744 --> 00:54:45,264
protocols. That's a tongue twister on different layers like FETI, FEDIMINT and eCash, you know,

639
00:54:45,264 --> 00:54:52,344
with Cashew. But not only does the majority of the world not, they're not even close to grokking

640
00:54:52,344 --> 00:54:57,124
Bitcoin yet, the vast majority, like 99%. Even if you say, I don't care what number you say

641
00:54:57,124 --> 00:55:01,784
actually owns Bitcoin, you can say 99% plus the world does not even come close to really

642
00:55:01,784 --> 00:55:06,144
grokking the gravity of this. Add any single person in Bitcoin that says number go up,

643
00:55:06,904 --> 00:55:14,444
them too. Yeah. And furthermore, okay, take that. So let's just, let's very generously say 1% of the

644
00:55:14,444 --> 00:55:18,644
world groks Bitcoin, which is not, it's, it's far less than that. Far, far less. Like it's a fraction

645
00:55:18,644 --> 00:55:25,884
1%. But an even tinier fraction of those people who are quote Bitcoiners use or even are aware of

646
00:55:25,884 --> 00:55:32,824
any of these other tools that are possible. Like, let's break that why it would look exactly like it

647
00:55:32,859 --> 00:55:40,319
looks like so let's so that way what why what you would expect to see is exactly this right

648
00:55:40,319 --> 00:55:47,439
is um not bad people not bad it's a bit of a system um and if we've always lived in a control

649
00:55:47,439 --> 00:55:53,979
system then we would have a really hard time understanding that we live in a control system

650
00:55:53,979 --> 00:55:59,639
we would defend our control system to call it democracy capitalism this we would defend it at

651
00:55:59,639 --> 00:56:05,819
all cost because it couldn't be us it was something else so we would all these words

652
00:56:05,819 --> 00:56:11,539
that mean something but they don't mean the natural state of the free market

653
00:56:11,539 --> 00:56:16,619
they mean control system we would defend them with everything we have because we've always

654
00:56:16,619 --> 00:56:23,059
lived in them and all of our history has always has always supported it and then we would yell

655
00:56:23,059 --> 00:56:31,359
let the bankers who created it the warbergs the the uh and and and and we'd fight them from within

656
00:56:31,359 --> 00:56:37,759
that control system and we'd make the whole thing stronger the conspiracy theories those people

657
00:56:37,759 --> 00:56:43,479
those people when we didn't realize it was actually us right so if we've never lived in the natural

658
00:56:43,479 --> 00:56:52,339
state of free free market we know that for sure right then then just about all of our thoughts

659
00:56:52,339 --> 00:57:00,839
would be inside this other thing and it gives rise to our thoughts or gives rise to dividing us.

660
00:57:01,179 --> 00:57:08,259
This other thing would know how to mind control us by using analysis to how does marketing work,

661
00:57:08,259 --> 00:57:18,559
right? By shaping your mind, how does technology work? We've uncovered the secrets of mind control

662
00:57:18,559 --> 00:57:23,559
through technology and now AI would be sitting on top of this to be able to drive that faster

663
00:57:23,559 --> 00:57:29,599
most of your decisions would live inside there right so it would probably happen faster

664
00:57:29,599 --> 00:57:35,679
it would have to happen faster and we would be convinced it was somebody else

665
00:57:35,679 --> 00:57:43,679
inside that system when it was actually us so that's the bar I put on bitcoin right because

666
00:57:43,679 --> 00:57:52,219
the bar i put on bitcoin staying decentralized and secure against us it has to right so now how does

667
00:57:52,219 --> 00:57:57,199
how does that happen and so all the fights that you knew had to come

668
00:57:57,199 --> 00:58:06,179
because the the government that the that puts them in jail for for creating freedoms comes from you

669
00:58:06,179 --> 00:58:12,099
right that couldn't happen if the government wasn't this size that you vote for and everything

670
00:58:12,099 --> 00:58:17,299
else and allow that to happen. It comes from stealing your power and your energy. And that

671
00:58:17,299 --> 00:58:26,219
is allowed to happen. And that government has to make, um, make, um, martyrs or not martyrs,

672
00:58:26,219 --> 00:58:34,399
make examples out of people that don't toe the line. So other people are scared to do it. And

673
00:58:34,399 --> 00:58:43,219
you can slow this down. Not might have to, has to, because the control system collapses without this.

674
00:58:43,739 --> 00:58:49,039
Add into most of the things that, a lot of the things that the U.S. is trying to do

675
00:58:49,039 --> 00:58:57,159
is trying to stop China by becoming more authoritarian than China. That will never work.

676
00:58:57,159 --> 00:59:04,039
All of these things that are trying to, the only way that the U.S. could possibly win is by opening

677
00:59:04,039 --> 00:59:12,179
absolute freedom because that's the thing that accelerates everything that no one else can win

678
00:59:12,179 --> 00:59:17,979
and by the way if the u.s doesn't want to win that el salvador will win it other countries will copy

679
00:59:17,979 --> 00:59:24,219
el salvador and u.s will go down and down and down in that but they cannot win this fight with a

680
00:59:24,219 --> 00:59:30,799
bigger control system than china but just about everyone that's raised in that control system

681
00:59:30,799 --> 00:59:38,239
that believes in they're they're smarter better everything else and they're watching what's

682
00:59:38,239 --> 00:59:43,939
happening in china through through this is now trying okay we'd have to play the same playbook

683
00:59:43,939 --> 00:59:50,599
we need to we need to monitor our citizens communications everything else we have to um do

684
00:59:50,599 --> 00:59:59,239
and and so this creeping authoritarian patriot act king banking acts what you can spend money on

685
00:59:59,239 --> 01:00:06,019
It's just a natural thing that has to happen from all of those people making decisions inside that system.

686
01:00:06,479 --> 01:00:08,959
It is not the natural state of the free market.

687
01:00:10,659 --> 01:00:12,319
It is exactly the opposite.

688
01:00:13,219 --> 01:00:14,879
And people are getting caught in it.

689
01:00:16,039 --> 01:00:20,019
So why I say that is nothing here is a surprise.

690
01:00:20,639 --> 01:00:22,399
You know how long I've been talking about this.

691
01:00:23,599 --> 01:00:25,399
There's not one surprise.

692
01:00:25,399 --> 01:00:28,799
Everything I wrote about still happening at that speed.

693
01:00:29,239 --> 01:00:32,899
everything in this system consolidating at that speed, right?

694
01:00:33,419 --> 01:00:36,099
And so why we invested in FETI

695
01:00:36,099 --> 01:00:40,299
is because you realized you had to invent,

696
01:00:40,439 --> 01:00:44,499
you had to build something that was untouchable

697
01:00:44,499 --> 01:00:48,259
on the second layer that created privacy,

698
01:00:48,759 --> 01:00:50,339
that nothing could stop,

699
01:00:51,479 --> 01:00:54,959
that essentially replicated the nodes at another layer

700
01:00:54,959 --> 01:00:58,519
because the nodes, in other words, the nodes,

701
01:00:58,519 --> 01:01:04,259
if there was one or two nodes bitcoin would have been shot down a long long time ago if the nodes

702
01:01:04,259 --> 01:01:09,259
get centralized get shot down but if there's hundreds of thousands or tens of thousands of

703
01:01:09,259 --> 01:01:14,559
nodes distributed around the world every time you try to stop one another one pops up more and more

704
01:01:14,559 --> 01:01:20,899
and so the attack creates the strength because more and more people see it see it and that's

705
01:01:20,899 --> 01:01:26,119
what bitcoin is but if you were used to seeing if all of these people in these worlds are used to

706
01:01:26,119 --> 01:01:32,999
technologies and not protocols then it would also be easier to to convince them bitcoin's old tech

707
01:01:32,999 --> 01:01:42,039
it's it's uh it's uh we need new tech that that gives you smart contracts or we need new tech

708
01:01:42,039 --> 01:01:49,399
that gives you privacy because bitcoin's open and all of these coins would be like honey pots for

709
01:01:49,399 --> 01:01:56,099
people to to get caught into we need stable coins which is a guaranteed lost coin right to be able

710
01:01:56,099 --> 01:02:01,219
it for you to transact so you can transact with her they would all just be to you'd expect

711
01:02:01,219 --> 01:02:07,419
everything we're just saying you'd have to expect it if this thing was gonna it was imposing

712
01:02:07,419 --> 01:02:14,019
an entirely different way of living in the future you'd have to expect it but what else would you

713
01:02:14,019 --> 01:02:19,639
expect you'd expect if it was a protocol that these would develop in layers and you'd expect

714
01:02:19,639 --> 01:02:29,259
some really great thinkers that were saying all of this is coming what do we need to do to ensure

715
01:02:29,259 --> 01:02:34,959
that this is this is resilient to make sure that this is lining up in bitcoin to make sure even

716
01:02:34,959 --> 01:02:39,859
though they can't see it right now even though they're really on all these tokens just trying

717
01:02:39,859 --> 01:02:59,938
to get rich in a system that dying selling a different piece of a solution the protocol is going to give you all the solutions in layers And what does it need to look like to be able to do that And those people would be deep building the tech the solution architecture

718
01:03:00,098 --> 01:03:09,858
To be able to do that, they'd be doing it, some in anonymity, some in that by the time this was really needed, it would have merged.

719
01:03:11,618 --> 01:03:12,938
That's what FETI is now.

720
01:03:13,618 --> 01:03:16,798
And so you could set up right now.

721
01:03:16,798 --> 01:03:20,458
and one of the hardest things with Fetty and people don't really understand it yet,

722
01:03:20,498 --> 01:03:21,938
just like they don't understand Bitcoin.

723
01:03:22,158 --> 01:03:29,338
So it's hard to, to put, maybe I'll say this and then I'll let you ask some questions that we could take deeper.

724
01:03:30,438 --> 01:03:39,058
One of the long pulls in the tent of Fetty was, um, the trust to, with a small group of guardians

725
01:03:39,058 --> 01:03:43,918
that then would create, then those guardians couldn't see any of the transactions.

726
01:03:43,918 --> 01:03:48,038
FEDI can't see any of the transactions or the communications that happen on top of those,

727
01:03:48,418 --> 01:03:52,598
those guardians could be considered money transmitters.

728
01:03:53,958 --> 01:04:02,298
So now if you, me, three others are guardians and a whole bunch of people are free on top of us

729
01:04:02,298 --> 01:04:09,658
and there's only one federation or two federations, then you can guarantee with

730
01:04:09,658 --> 01:04:15,458
the surveillance state, we would be caught, right? Guaranteed. So now who goes first? What does that

731
01:04:15,458 --> 01:04:28,098
look like? Had a different, a different tangent. Um, the, um, inside, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, inside of

732
01:04:28,098 --> 01:04:34,098
that, how do you find people who want to run that run these things in this trustless environment

733
01:04:34,098 --> 01:04:38,618
and, um, that could come under attack and everything else, but somebody has to go.

734
01:04:38,618 --> 01:04:45,778
Okay. So Bitcoin had, sorry, FEDMENT had this kind of long pole in the tent that was really hard

735
01:04:45,778 --> 01:04:51,518
to be able to scale, even though some of the federations and the federations that worked

736
01:04:51,518 --> 01:05:00,378
were really run by four or five different people who didn't know each other and FEDE didn't know

737
01:05:00,378 --> 01:05:06,618
any of them. So it was impossible to shut down. So they were impossible to shut down and they were

738
01:05:06,618 --> 01:05:15,378
tried so in in early going in in fedi um dns servers got shut down by two of the two people

739
01:05:15,378 --> 01:05:22,018
that were mentioned fedi in their website that's like finding a needle in a haystack by the way

740
01:05:22,018 --> 01:05:26,557
right but it uh so the only people who could do that are three letter word agencies

741
01:05:26,557 --> 01:05:33,658
that couldn't find that and and what fedi looked at is wow like that's that we're proud of that

742
01:05:33,658 --> 01:05:38,138
because it gave them time because the the system kept running with the other three guardians

743
01:05:38,138 --> 01:05:43,658
and it gave them time to be able to move dns and now iro which you don't even need dns

744
01:05:43,658 --> 01:05:50,498
and so the so it's created a way to harden hard and harden this protocol on top of bitcoin

745
01:05:50,498 --> 01:05:59,158
the other risk the risk exists in cashew as well if there was one federation or if there was one

746
01:05:59,158 --> 01:06:09,138
one cash you met and somebody rehypothicated the funds would you know what if the guardians

747
01:06:09,138 --> 01:06:16,898
colluded and and your bitcoin that went in one for one was now one for two right and that you

748
01:06:16,898 --> 01:06:23,438
started and they started rehypothicating and that becomes a real risk in in trust so how do you avoid

749
01:06:23,438 --> 01:06:30,057
that risk and how do you scale this something ingenious that they did is they found a way to add

750
01:06:30,057 --> 01:06:35,978
15 og guardians those 15 og guardians

751
01:06:35,978 --> 01:06:46,838
they devised a way to crowdsource guardians to proof work and no none of those guardians were

752
01:06:46,838 --> 01:06:57,398
were put forward with um by by say one one person named two or three guardians

753
01:06:57,398 --> 01:07:05,498
they asked for people who knew people approved work who would step up to be og guardians

754
01:07:05,498 --> 01:07:11,958
and each of those people are are not known that they were they were driven in fetti fetti has no

755
01:07:11,958 --> 01:07:18,898
idea who they are. They're acting as nodes. Now you can set up a federation and you can set up a

756
01:07:18,898 --> 01:07:25,398
federation in literally five minutes now, your own federation. You can go in under with not your real

757
01:07:25,398 --> 01:07:32,918
name. It'll auto select three or four guardians and you can set the rules for something that

758
01:07:32,918 --> 01:07:39,598
protects your family and their communications or anybody you want with money that can't be

759
01:07:39,598 --> 01:07:44,878
co-opted with money and communications that can't be co-opted because it's outside that system and

760
01:07:44,878 --> 01:07:50,238
so what it would what happened and what you would expect to happen is they solve that and what's

761
01:07:50,238 --> 01:07:54,878
happened is using something i think for one year there were three federations

762
01:07:56,478 --> 01:08:01,038
um the first day they turned this on there were between 10 and 20.

763
01:08:03,998 --> 01:08:07,598
because now you now you have it in your hands you could do this right now

764
01:08:07,598 --> 01:08:14,078
you could set up a and so so i've been asked a couple times there's a cost for the federation

765
01:08:14,078 --> 01:08:19,758
per month the cost is really you can you can charge people by the way provide providing this

766
01:08:19,758 --> 01:08:25,198
service essentially let's say you're in let's say you're in nigeria you can provide private

767
01:08:25,198 --> 01:08:30,878
banking to all your friends and you can charge them a buck a month completely private banking

768
01:08:30,878 --> 01:08:38,478
you might pay 20 what 20 dollars a month but the the money that you pay um right now is really to

769
01:08:38,478 --> 01:08:46,238
support the lightning gateways so it's on and off ramps and and and the cost of running these

770
01:08:46,798 --> 01:08:54,958
these uh these guardians and and such so but it's a you've now enabled now you have a protocol

771
01:08:54,958 --> 01:09:01,198
that's enabled an entire ecosystem that can be built on top of it but every single one of these

772
01:09:01,198 --> 01:09:10,958
federations adds to essentially the number of nodes that it can complete complete privacy

773
01:09:10,958 --> 01:09:14,878
that he can't see any of the transactions neither can the good audience only you and the person

774
01:09:14,878 --> 01:09:22,798
you're transacting with that makes us very resilient but it had to exist now before what

775
01:09:22,798 --> 01:09:25,818
what we're going to see and where you're going to see with,

776
01:09:25,818 --> 01:09:28,298
with increasing frequency around the world.

777
01:09:29,898 --> 01:09:30,758
Well, this is,

778
01:09:30,858 --> 01:09:33,238
there are so many things I want to pull on here.

779
01:09:33,538 --> 01:09:35,838
And for anyone who does want like a,

780
01:09:35,838 --> 01:09:39,538
a deeper dive into maybe more nuts and bolts of Fetty and Fetty men,

781
01:09:39,618 --> 01:09:39,898
I did,

782
01:09:39,998 --> 01:09:42,538
I did an episode with you prior and one with OB as well,

783
01:09:42,538 --> 01:09:44,438
where we got kind of more into some of the,

784
01:09:44,498 --> 01:09:45,938
like the technicalities,

785
01:09:45,998 --> 01:09:46,598
how some of this,

786
01:09:46,738 --> 01:09:47,458
this actually works.

787
01:09:47,498 --> 01:09:48,598
I should have OB back on again,

788
01:09:48,598 --> 01:09:50,198
actually to dig into that some more,

789
01:09:50,198 --> 01:09:53,078
but maybe for the purposes of this conversation,

790
01:09:53,078 --> 01:09:54,398
I think for anyone listening right now

791
01:09:54,398 --> 01:09:58,677
that may have heard of Fetty Mint or like just casually,

792
01:09:58,677 --> 01:10:01,698
they may not have understood that not only is this

793
01:10:01,698 --> 01:10:05,738
about private community-based banking, right?

794
01:10:05,738 --> 01:10:09,038
But it's also a just private messenger.

795
01:10:09,038 --> 01:10:21,436
Like this is making a complete a complete black box is the wrong word for it but actually or is that an okay word the only so signal right now it would have been a primary it still

796
01:10:21,436 --> 01:10:28,856
probably my primary um but but we know it could be compromised right because of centralized servers

797
01:10:28,856 --> 01:10:35,476
this can't be so this is becoming my primary communication um and if you think about where

798
01:10:35,476 --> 01:10:42,536
we're going with artificial intelligence, how people will start to, I'll show up on podcasts

799
01:10:42,536 --> 01:10:52,476
as me with different words that convince you that it's me, right? And it'd be really hard

800
01:10:52,476 --> 01:10:57,156
to distinguish what's coming with all of this. And that could happen to any of your friends and

801
01:10:57,156 --> 01:11:01,396
everything else as you're caught into this matrix. So what do you need as an antidote to that?

802
01:11:01,396 --> 01:11:07,296
you need people that you trust they're connected to you and that you can have this conversation

803
01:11:07,296 --> 01:11:12,136
one-on-one with them without anybody in the middle you need your money like that you need

804
01:11:12,136 --> 01:11:17,356
your communications like that you need your sovereignty and so i would i would venture to say

805
01:11:17,356 --> 01:11:25,496
please go and create a federation please go and protect yourself your family for your friends

806
01:11:25,496 --> 01:11:31,976
once you're there, you can add people to it super easily. And your network of people there,

807
01:11:32,476 --> 01:11:39,336
you know it's them. I think that that's really powerful. I mean, not only from the, again,

808
01:11:39,336 --> 01:11:43,516
as you mentioned, like the perspective of AI and, you know, okay, how do I know the person I'm really

809
01:11:43,516 --> 01:11:51,316
talking to is really Jeff. But from that government overreach perspective, we know that we are at a

810
01:11:51,316 --> 01:11:57,816
point right now where existing power structures are kind of crumbling a little bit at the

811
01:11:57,816 --> 01:11:58,276
foundations.

812
01:11:58,476 --> 01:12:01,476
But that also means that they're going to be grasping and trying to take in more power,

813
01:12:01,556 --> 01:12:05,416
trying to shore up their foundations, trying to use all of these tools which are available

814
01:12:05,416 --> 01:12:10,016
to us as individuals, but which are also available to government and which many large

815
01:12:10,016 --> 01:12:15,116
corporations are pouring billions and billions of dollars into and working hand in hand with

816
01:12:15,116 --> 01:12:19,996
the government to make sure they get as big of a moat as they can and can get these big

817
01:12:19,996 --> 01:12:25,616
juicy NSA contracts and all these things. At a time when that is accelerating, because

818
01:12:25,616 --> 01:12:30,956
governments around the world, I think they feel their power starting to slide away, or they see,

819
01:12:31,936 --> 01:12:35,856
maybe not all of them, but some of them realize they see the writing on the wall, right?

820
01:12:35,976 --> 01:12:42,136
They may know that we're in sort of a period of chaos before a period of rebirth. And so they're

821
01:12:42,136 --> 01:12:47,236
going to be clawing tooth and nail to try and hold on to whatever power they can. If you don't,

822
01:12:47,236 --> 01:12:53,256
as an individual use these tools like bitcoin obviously but also like fediment like noster

823
01:12:53,256 --> 01:13:00,016
if you don't have these ways to be able to actually still communicate and transact freely

824
01:13:00,016 --> 01:13:06,756
and privately you are just going to necessarily be caught in their dragnet right and they're like

825
01:13:06,756 --> 01:13:10,516
there will be no escape and if you don't start using these things now like you don't want to

826
01:13:10,516 --> 01:13:15,296
start familiarizing yourself with these tools when you're like oh shit i really need to do this it

827
01:13:15,296 --> 01:13:20,216
needs to be like it needs to be now that's what i'm trying to push people towards like please do

828
01:13:20,216 --> 01:13:28,136
this before you're like oh shit i really need to do this right now yeah i totally agree they now

829
01:13:28,136 --> 01:13:33,716
what would you think a world like that would look like to a free market opportunity that created

830
01:13:33,716 --> 01:13:38,696
value against the world that was increasingly looking like that and you can see why there's

831
01:13:38,696 --> 01:13:47,436
so much opportunity as well in in seeing because what i find every day to today is when i remember

832
01:13:47,436 --> 01:13:52,956
when we started we said it had to look like this right if that in the end if you said he kept saying

833
01:13:52,956 --> 01:13:58,736
the natural state of the free market is deflation it means you're choosing when you're not prices

834
01:13:58,736 --> 01:14:04,776
aren't falling it's you're choosing to store your things in assets because the money's broken

835
01:14:04,776 --> 01:14:10,796
right the very idea of an asset like sailor talking about this as an asset

836
01:14:10,796 --> 01:14:15,156
the very idea of an asset a house when you talk about a house

837
01:14:15,156 --> 01:14:22,016
very idea of an asset is because money is broken and you can't use money as money

838
01:14:22,016 --> 01:14:31,216
so you need to put it in something else that will protect it this is money it's going to be money

839
01:14:31,216 --> 01:14:35,596
And the more you use it as money, the faster it becomes money.

840
01:14:35,856 --> 01:14:38,576
But even if you don't use it as money, it's becoming your money.

841
01:14:41,236 --> 01:14:48,336
And so all of these things, it's just driving a free market force into this thing.

842
01:14:48,476 --> 01:14:51,296
And the people that are using that free market force and creating value there

843
01:14:51,296 --> 01:14:55,136
are going to be exponentially better than the people that aren't.

844
01:14:55,756 --> 01:14:59,356
But it's an open door that anybody can move to the honest system.

845
01:15:01,216 --> 01:15:18,976
Let me ask you, Jeff, because I want to be conscious of your time too, and I think we may be running up on it, but maybe I could ask you, I think broadly, and I appreciate the fact that you repeat these things, and maybe you get some grief for it, but I think it's good because repetition is what actually makes it sink into people's heads, right?

846
01:15:18,976 --> 01:15:29,776
That the natural state of a free market is deflation, and for so many people, the first time that they heard that, I mean, I think for most people, the first time they heard it, unless they heard somebody quoting you, was reading your book, The Present Tomorrow.

847
01:15:29,776 --> 01:15:35,296
So hearing that, it changes something within you and you start to think, oh my God, like,

848
01:15:36,136 --> 01:15:38,516
yes, obviously, of course, this must be true.

849
01:15:38,676 --> 01:15:41,516
But you don't think of it until you laid it out for people.

850
01:15:41,516 --> 01:15:48,656
I think the next part that people get to is they say, okay, given that is true and I can

851
01:15:48,656 --> 01:15:51,256
make the decision to opt in myself at any time, right?

852
01:15:51,276 --> 01:15:56,716
I can start living in that deflationary world right now by saving in a money that can't

853
01:15:56,716 --> 01:15:58,036
be debased, by saving in Bitcoin.

854
01:15:58,036 --> 01:16:15,176
But zooming out even further or perhaps zooming forward even further, what does that look like during this, I think, inevitable period of late stage chaos?

855
01:16:15,396 --> 01:16:18,996
We're seeing what it looks like right now, but I think things are going to get more chaotic.

856
01:16:18,996 --> 01:16:38,296
And then when it comes to this eventual rebirth into 8 billion or 9 billion or 10 billion people, however many people are at that point on the planet in service of those other 10 billion people, is that something that can go on forever with the right monetary incentive system?

857
01:16:38,516 --> 01:16:38,916
Forever.

858
01:16:39,616 --> 01:16:39,936
Okay.

859
01:16:40,756 --> 01:16:45,636
So you want – and we're going way out.

860
01:16:45,736 --> 01:16:48,596
I saw one of the questions about a Star Trek world, right?

861
01:16:48,596 --> 01:17:13,696
Yeah, this is what sparked it. Yeah. Yeah. But that's actually what it looks like. It looks like that because it has to look like that. I would say by 2140, that's where it will be living. Because what is money in itself? All that money is, is an abstract concept for our trade between humans. And what is our trade to humans to provide value to each other? And we choose.

862
01:17:13,696 --> 01:17:17,476
So all money is in the middle of that trade.

863
01:17:17,476 --> 01:17:20,996
It allows us to value with each other.

864
01:17:21,456 --> 01:17:26,556
So if you defined money instead as this thing we control

865
01:17:26,556 --> 01:17:30,756
so people can't trade with each other

866
01:17:30,756 --> 01:17:39,295
or trade with each other with this friction that has to go through our central authority to be able to trade with each other then you just created a control system

867
01:17:41,135 --> 01:17:43,575
Abstract concept for our trade.

868
01:17:45,975 --> 01:17:47,775
We've always been used to creating this

869
01:17:47,775 --> 01:17:50,135
and unfettered flow of trade.

870
01:17:51,475 --> 01:17:54,155
Our free market of ideas creates more value.

871
01:17:55,215 --> 01:17:59,235
That's why free markets couch the word free.

872
01:17:59,395 --> 01:18:00,215
They've never been free.

873
01:18:00,915 --> 01:18:06,635
but some more free than closed markets have always outcompeted closed markets.

874
01:18:07,075 --> 01:18:07,355
Always.

875
01:18:07,835 --> 01:18:11,955
Now, for any small window of time, like what's happening to China right now,

876
01:18:12,195 --> 01:18:15,715
you could drive in trillions and trillions of dollars of capital

877
01:18:15,715 --> 01:18:20,555
and in a small window outperform a free market by just driving.

878
01:18:20,815 --> 01:18:22,295
But long-term, you cannot.

879
01:18:23,175 --> 01:18:25,555
Because what you're doing is saying,

880
01:18:25,635 --> 01:18:27,595
no one else matters except for my ideas.

881
01:18:28,035 --> 01:18:29,755
And you miss most of the ideas.

882
01:18:29,755 --> 01:18:38,355
so the ideas come from us if physical reality comes from um from our mind and is turned into

883
01:18:38,355 --> 01:18:46,835
physical reality from our mind which exists almost infinite opportunity and and so in that world

884
01:18:46,835 --> 01:18:55,115
it's always infinite opportunity against us a cascade of problems in any single time period

885
01:18:55,115 --> 01:19:01,215
how are those problems addressed by the infinite capability in our mind

886
01:19:01,215 --> 01:19:10,155
because in the free market because we have swarm and attacking and in the margin of the problem

887
01:19:10,155 --> 01:19:14,895
to be able to solve problems for others becomes the opportunity that entrepreneur goes after

888
01:19:14,895 --> 01:19:21,715
and as soon as they've created margin from it every entrepreneur attacks them to steal their margin

889
01:19:21,715 --> 01:19:29,155
so so what would the world look like in that in that world we'll always still have problems

890
01:19:29,155 --> 01:19:32,755
or as an entrepreneur i would look at as opportunities

891
01:19:32,755 --> 01:19:39,675
um and those opportunities be solved faster and faster and every single person on the planet

892
01:19:39,675 --> 01:19:44,075
wins as a result of all other people competing faster to solve their problems

893
01:19:44,075 --> 01:19:54,175
can you imagine 2140 on bitcoin going back from that time that looks like that

894
01:19:54,175 --> 01:20:00,675
to this time can you imagine what it would take for people to think oh we're going to trade this

895
01:20:00,675 --> 01:20:07,055
for that bullshit right they just the knowledge that you would gain people forget that they're

896
01:20:07,055 --> 01:20:14,815
both part of the system and the solution to it. They forget that their minds change and they become

897
01:20:14,815 --> 01:20:21,835
somebody else along the way. And they think it just happens to other people or that everybody's

898
01:20:21,835 --> 01:20:27,335
going to stay stuck forever. It can't look like that. If you believe in human progress, if you

899
01:20:27,335 --> 01:20:32,595
believe that more people want to unlock, just like I unlocked to the system, just like you unlocked

900
01:20:32,595 --> 01:20:40,175
to this like we all did this didn't exist bunch of cypherpunks go to try to create this all the

901
01:20:40,175 --> 01:20:48,575
failures all everything else then then satoshi creates it by taking those failures and creating

902
01:20:48,575 --> 01:20:55,375
it we're standing on the shoulders of giants that created all of it and then we're the giants

903
01:20:55,375 --> 01:21:01,735
that are creating it for everyone else and then now they're giants trying to replace us and it's

904
01:21:01,735 --> 01:21:07,535
all in service to all of us. It has to look like this. The only reason this could fail is if you

905
01:21:07,535 --> 01:21:18,875
didn't believe in us. It's a fair point that once you reach that state, if we are able to actually

906
01:21:18,875 --> 01:21:23,255
achieve a state where we are operating in a truly free market because the market for money is not

907
01:21:23,255 --> 01:21:28,895
being centrally controlled, why would anyone opt to go back in?

908
01:21:28,955 --> 01:21:34,855
Because, I mean, even the people who would perhaps, let's call them, you know, the bad

909
01:21:34,855 --> 01:21:39,815
people or the evil people, even those people would benefit more from a freer system, right?

910
01:21:40,075 --> 01:21:41,275
They just can't see it.

911
01:21:41,395 --> 01:21:46,795
And most people, by the way, most people playing in the zero-sum game can't see that you can't

912
01:21:46,795 --> 01:21:52,595
build walls high enough for what's coming from a system that's a zero-sum game.

913
01:21:53,255 --> 01:22:00,575
there's nothing you can do that system burns to the ground and and so on on on this transfer

914
01:22:00,575 --> 01:22:06,115
through it it's us that's changing it's not bitcoin that's changing right it's a it's us

915
01:22:06,115 --> 01:22:11,235
moving from a zero sum game to an infinite game but we wouldn't have the we wouldn't have the map

916
01:22:11,235 --> 01:22:14,595
of what the infinite game looks like because we've never lived in that map

917
01:22:14,595 --> 01:22:18,055
we're creating the map we're both the map and the territory

918
01:22:18,055 --> 01:22:27,955
man i almost jeff i could always keep asking you questions uh ad nauseum but i feel like but what a

919
01:22:27,955 --> 01:22:33,295
what an incredible note to to wrap up on so that i don't take too much of your time we've gone over

920
01:22:33,295 --> 01:22:37,535
a little bit already i would just encourage people the last thing i would say is just to say

921
01:22:37,535 --> 01:22:41,975
check out fetty like you can you can download this you can start using it you can create your

922
01:22:41,975 --> 01:22:46,595
own federation if you're listening to this after the fact for those who are listening live on noster

923
01:22:46,595 --> 01:22:48,275
thank you for being here and for,

924
01:22:48,375 --> 01:22:50,415
for spending some of your scarce time with Jeff and I,

925
01:22:50,755 --> 01:22:52,015
for those who are listening after the fact,

926
01:22:52,075 --> 01:22:52,895
not live on Noster,

927
01:22:53,375 --> 01:22:54,255
come check out Noster.

928
01:22:54,795 --> 01:22:56,375
Use these tools,

929
01:22:56,595 --> 01:22:58,275
spend more of your time over here.

930
01:22:58,515 --> 01:22:59,435
It's more fun.

931
01:22:59,515 --> 01:23:00,315
The vibe is better.

932
01:23:00,895 --> 01:23:01,715
And yeah,

933
01:23:01,715 --> 01:23:02,075
you will,

934
01:23:02,175 --> 01:23:05,275
you will like who you are when you're posting on Noster more than you will

935
01:23:05,275 --> 01:23:06,015
when you're being fed,

936
01:23:06,395 --> 01:23:08,475
fed algorithmic BS on,

937
01:23:08,475 --> 01:23:09,035
on X.

938
01:23:09,935 --> 01:23:10,755
And yeah,

939
01:23:10,755 --> 01:23:11,515
that's what I would leave people.

940
01:23:11,615 --> 01:23:13,775
Is there anything anywhere else you want to send people,

941
01:23:13,875 --> 01:23:16,315
anything else you want to leave folks with before we close out?

942
01:23:16,595 --> 01:23:24,775
No, I think we're good. We'll just do it again soon or on a patio somewhere or the cabin.

943
01:23:25,495 --> 01:23:36,675
I look forward to that. Yeah, we got to do one of these in person eventually. That would be really a treat. But Jeff, really thank you for your time. And thank you for all the work that you do as well.

944
01:23:36,675 --> 01:23:42,415
I think you have opened many minds in just a short span of time.

945
01:23:42,575 --> 01:23:48,075
And I think everybody's just excited for, you know, the Price of Everything book to eventually come out.

946
01:23:48,255 --> 01:23:53,035
You know, you're probably a little short on free time right now, but I don't know.

947
01:23:53,115 --> 01:23:56,135
I think folks have been hankering for it.

948
01:23:56,895 --> 01:24:01,355
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin Talk episode of The Bitcoin Podcast.

949
01:24:01,675 --> 01:24:05,975
Remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you're watching or listening.

950
01:24:05,975 --> 01:24:10,295
and share it with your friends, family, and strangers on the internet.

951
01:24:10,655 --> 01:24:16,975
Find me on Noster at primal.net slash walker and this podcast at primal.net slash titcoin.

952
01:24:17,395 --> 01:24:20,835
On X, YouTube, and Rumble, just search at Walker America

953
01:24:20,835 --> 01:24:25,675
and find this podcast on X and Instagram at titcoinpodcast.

954
01:24:26,115 --> 01:24:28,375
Head to the show notes to grab sponsor links.

955
01:24:28,375 --> 01:24:33,175
Head to substack.com slash at Walker America to get episodes emailed to you

956
01:24:33,175 --> 01:24:36,975
and head to bitcoinpodcast.net for everything else.

957
01:24:37,535 --> 01:24:41,075
Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant.

958
01:24:41,575 --> 01:24:46,435
So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to The Bitcoin Podcast.

959
01:24:47,315 --> 01:24:49,735
Until next time, stay free.