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Inflation's bad. There could be a wipeout of some savings, for sure, at any point.

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And fiat could die at any point.

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It does feel like now is a time that Bitcoin was made for.

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It's a funny time to be in Bitcoin. Like, I'm still so fucking bullish.

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You set the record straight.

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You actually had bears on your property, in your vineyard, decimating your grapes. Is that correct?

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100% of my customers are Bitcoiners.

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That is entirely an emergent phenomenon.

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I set out to start a winery and bet on myself when I was 25.

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Your marketing strategy is, let's say, a little bit unconventional from what you might expect.

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Whenever I say something that pisses someone off, they're always like, well, I thought about buying your wine and now I won't.

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I'm like, OK, cool. So you weren't a customer and now you're still not a customer.

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I'm like so leveraged on Bitcoin without actual leverage.

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One, I took out debt to start the winery and I could have paid off all that debt, but instead I bought Bitcoin.

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So net worth is around zero.

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Bitcoin has changed my life in every single way except for like a financial success, I guess.

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I'm bullish, Ben. I'm bullish.

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Maybe it's the Peony Lane wine talking.

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Ben Justman, you've been making waves lately.

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I think your problem, Ben, is that you're such a good mimetic warrior and troll that people aren't sure when you're being serious.

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like that which is like that's you know the level of kayfabe there is just really impressive but the

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problem is that when you say something like you know bears literal bears ate all of my grapes

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people are like oh okay ben you know funny like yeah we get it bitcoin bears and you're like no

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they they ate all my grapes so can you can you set the record straight you actually had bears

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on your property in your vineyard decimating your grapes is that correct yeah and i mean i feel like

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i've been pretty open with it but at the same time yeah my uh i guess demeanor everything kind

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of turns into a joke to the point where i get i do i have gotten a lot of messages saying are you

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serious i thought you were joking this whole time and um even one of them last night i replied like

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i'm dying that people are joking or that people think i'm joking and um as soon as i sent that

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i realized that he probably meant that i was like really sad that i think people are joking but i'm

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kind of dying laughing that it's gotten to this point that people don't know. I cope with hard

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times by making light of the situation and moving on. I've got a pretty positive mindset and like to

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be on to the next thing. So I think that's where it comes from. But this year has been the worst

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bear year in memory across most of the, I assume most of the Mountain West, specifically my town,

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specifically Colorado. And it's a few reasons for that. It was a really dry winter. And therefore,

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some of the food that is meant to grow in the high country didn't do as well,

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because there wasn't much snow, there wasn't much water. But I think the bigger factor is

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there was a really hard freeze in the spring at an inopportune time for berry and other food

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development and that pushed the bears down into the valley out of the mountains where they normally

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have enough food. So I'll see me, like, I won't see, I've seen a few bears in my life before this

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year and I'll hear about a bear in town maybe every other year, but one bear. And this year

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I know a farm that has shot nine and I know another farm that has shot six, like, um, a few

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buddies that have shot multiple like it's it's pretty absurd how many bears there are they're

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everywhere and to make matters worse that hard frost so i'm in uh one of the higher elevation

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fruit growing areas in at least north america and the highest elevation wine region in north america

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and therefore the the spring frost is always a fear for thank you is always the fear for

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for fruit so perries cherries peaches apples plums nectarines we grow like all those kinds

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of fruits here and i have a few rows of those myself and normally one fruit will be blossoming

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and get like a small 31, 29 degree frost in the spring.

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And therefore that tree won't produce any fruit.

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So like those apricots won't produce any fruit.

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Sometimes it'll happen to multiple different trees.

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And it's very like minute timing.

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There's like five days for each thing

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that it's vulnerable for.

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So it doesn't usually get everything.

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Sometimes it's worse than others.

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But this year was a pretty absurd year

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in that front as well,

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where fruit was developed.

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Like there was, it wasn't flowers,

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which is normally what's vulnerable.

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This was, there were apricots the size of,

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a little bit smaller than a walnut, I guess,

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that froze and shriveled because it got down to 13 degrees.

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And it was an early because it was such a mild winter everything moved up and they ripening a few weeks from it had been early the last few years So it was two weeks ahead of a two week early

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So it was very early.

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And then we got this insane frost that destroyed stuff that normally wouldn't even get bothered by a light frost that we usually worry about.

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So horrible barrier.

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there's no other food for them to eat except for my grapes which develop later and were unhurt by

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that frost so a few people had fruit survive um a few people had grapes come out earlier than mine

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and get get damaged mine were looking like a great year and i was like oh man i'm so thankful

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if if the frost had happened a week later i would have lost my whole crop months ago and not had to

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work all summer. Great. Uh, so anyways, I, I started, I knew the bears were a problem

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and I started noticing, uh, bear diarrhea, I guess. A lot of times bear poop is pretty

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solid, but when they just eat grapes, it's very much just grapes. Um, and started noticing areas

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where it had just been just like every bunch just totally eaten.

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And I started camping out in my vineyard in my truck with a couple guns around me,

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going on walks at night to try and find them.

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And I had a few, I had one opportunity my first night walking out.

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I kind of was not mentally prepared to really shoot a bear.

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I was still in the, let me see if I can scare it away and maybe it won't come back mindset.

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which major flaw. And I got, you know, 50 yards from it. I could have got closer if I was really

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ready to shoot it. But all I had was an airsoft gun to scare it away and a 12 gauge with non-lethal

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shot in it. So I wasn't really about to go up to it. So I scared it away. And that if I had had

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a rifle, that would have been like the one time that I had a great shot. I had plenty of other

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times where I got much closer to a bear. However, another time, like I was, I changed my strategy a

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ton. Um, and we go into this as much as you want, but I was sleeping in my truck with my dog next to

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me and thinking my dog would wake me up. My dog's not really the greatest guard dog. And I've known

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that. Um, but I thought he would wake me up if a bear started coming. And so I wake up in the

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middle of the night to pee, don't hear anything. And I get out of my truck, uh, start peeing and

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see a large black spot in the moonlight moving about 20 or 30 yards from me. And so, you know,

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my first instinct is like, Oh shit, is that a bear? Yes, it's definitely a bear fumble, grab my light,

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shined it on it. And, um, before I, you know, before it much before I could get a shot,

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like right as I got the light on, um, it runs away, thankfully. Cause I'm sitting there like,

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okay, if this thing charges, I'm dead, I'm not ready. And it just kind of, it was multiple

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layers of like changing my strategy. And every time I saw it, like either my, I've got my parents

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dog who's a better guard dog out with me. And it just, it was like, Oh cool bear. Oh, it's running

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away from me. And I'm trying to look through this scope, get my headlamps like on it. So I can look

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through the scope and look through the headlamp and have it on there in the dark and, or the dog

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scared it away or whatever. And, um, I just never got a chance to, to shoot it. That said, in addition

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to the bears, normally we have some bird issues or some skunk and raccoon issues, but it's never

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that bad, I would say. And I can manage the population, which I could have done more so

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beforehand, before it became a problem, and set out traps and shoot them if I see them. But

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there was just nothing else for them to eat. So they were all flocking to me. My neighbor has shot

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30 raccoons this this fall and it is still like losing all his so it this is just the vermin year

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of like a plague year for vermin and people a lot of people have been asking me like well what could

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you have done in hindsight you know any of that and you know i i could have netted and i have

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friends that have netted and the bears will just rip that the bears will just rip that open but

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Even the skunks and raccoons will rip that open and then they get trapped in there and they just eat everything along the way.

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It would have helped with birds.

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But like I said, then I'd have to repair the nets and everything.

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And if I'd shot one bear, there was still two more that I'd been seeing.

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So it was kind of this like I feel like I did my best.

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I was out there every night, even like I scared the bear away from where I was.

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but like 100, 200 yards from me, dogs don't notice, you know, and I have to sleep.

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I have to get work done.

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So I'm not up all night.

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And it was just not really anything I could necessarily do to fully stop it Could have gotten the damage down a little bit but I don know

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I'd probably be picking now or in a week or two,

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and every night is more loss, more loss, more loss.

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And eventually I just kind of made the call, like, look, it's over.

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The grapes aren't even ripe enough to pick.

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I have a friend who picked his grapes early because of this, and I'm growing a variety that ripens late.

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So what can I do?

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Damn, dude.

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I mean, first of all, that just fucking sucks.

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And people should go for, in case we didn't say it, your vineyard is Peony Lane wine.

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I'm drinking right now in solidarity with you, just trying to do my part here.

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the uh the 2023 estate pinot noir my personal favorite uh it's it's great you can pay in

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bitcoin too guys you can use bitcoin as money well i think okay there's a bunch of questions

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that i that i kind of have out of this i mean maybe the first thing that i think is is not so

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much a question but maybe something to clarify for people is when we were talking about this

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off camera this idea that like a lot of people have this idea that their food just sort of arrives

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at the table their their wine just gets made like anything to do with agriculture just like

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kind of figured out and like, and maybe on larger scale industrial farms, that is, there's much more,

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you know, much more certainty there. There's also much bigger budgets, right? And oftentimes,

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you know, much bigger subsidies and that sort of thing. But can you talk a little bit about just

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like the, perhaps the reality of being sort of a small independent winemaker that people maybe

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don't grasp? Because like, even like, I've got a, I've got a small, small garden, right? A decent

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size garden like orchard that i planted this year the orchard's not going to start producing for a

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couple years but the garden was producing right away obviously that alone i mean all i'm dealing

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with around here is like deer and they're they're brutal like i had to take down my you know temporary

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fence that i put up because the deer kept busting through it and sink you know 30 different uh four

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by four eight foot cedar you know posts into the ground and put up a heavy duty fence just to keep

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the deer out because otherwise like i don't think people realize how much not only are you fighting

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the elements not only you fighting just you know the weather in general particular you know climate

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related uh things not climate change but you know what i'm saying but you're also fighting like

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literal animals who just see a huge ready-made food source for them like what what do people

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like in terms of the reactions that you get i guess what do you think people just most like

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goes over their heads for the most part in terms of like your day-to-day struggle just to like

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not lose your crop on any given year there's suggestions of like put a fence around it put

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an electric fence around it um i just find that bears when they want to get somewhere they get

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there and two bears when they're hungry when they want to get somewhere because they're starving

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like a lot of these bears will die all like all the bears that have been shot they probably would

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die in hibernation it's it's a really there's a reason they're pretty insane this year and they're

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so i i just kind of get a lot of a lot of solutions that are like uh armchair quarterbacking

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and it's like okay yeah you come shoot the bear you come deal with my problem please like

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and i get it it's social media and i surely do that for other careers um but i've i've made wine

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since 2019 so this would have been my eighth vintage i

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lost an entire vintage due to a hard frost the next year was a recovery year so there was no

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grapes um the i guess the year before the frost was bad fires in california which pushed birds

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off their migratory pattern and i lost half my crop due to birds and this year entire crop down

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Um, so, and then every other year it's like, you know, I'd love to ripen for another week,

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but it's going to freeze.

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So I do what I got.

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Um, so that 2023 Pinot that you're drinking was kind of the year that I'd been waiting

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for, for a long time.

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That was a year where we had ripening as long as I wanted.

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I had a strong crop, no birds, no bears, um, raccoons were manageable and was able to really

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produce the wine that I've been wanting to produce for all these years. And so I can go buy grapes

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from someone else. And I do that. Everything that's not my Pinot Noir is grapes that I've

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bought from another farm. And there's great farmers about an hour from me that grow at larger scale,

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have more crews, have more manpower to deal with anything like this. And I can always do that. And

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I've done that to an extreme degree. Like, I mean, not to an extreme degree, but I guess

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the point I'll make is I've overproduced throughout the years, not specifically for

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this reason, but with the idea of if I'm making red wine, it takes two years to produce and then

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a third year to sell at least. And so if I want to scale up, I can't scale up my production

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faster than two years. But if I want to scale down, I just don't make wine.

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And yeah, sure. I spent the money too early, but that's a great problem to have if I decide that.

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And so I started Peony Lane not knowing how big I wanted to get. And my plan was just, hey, keep scaling until you realize you're definitely too big. And I realized that last year, I guess. And my plan this year was just to make wine from my grapes because I'm already farming it. It's the one that I'm most passionate about. It's my brand, basically. And not make any other wine because I have plenty in the cellar from overproduction.

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And so part of the way that I've been able to be a little bit, have fun with it is that this is, I was already planning on underproducing this year, still making my favorite wine, my best wine, in my opinion.

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And this just kind of ripped the bandaid off in a way that was not out of my control.

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I did the best I could.

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Now I'm not making wine.

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Now I basically have a year off from that.

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I can focus on sales. I can focus on doing something else if I want. And it's a bit of a

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relief for me. That's a little, we're getting away from the farming question, I guess, but

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save space for rants and rambles. Yeah. All good. It's so I have, I have a lot of friends that are

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farmers. I live in a town that's full of organic farmers. People move here to be sovereign and

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live off their own food, connect with the lands, buy food from farmers and farmers markets.

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and I have a friend who took over a family that's been established for a long time,

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had a bunch of greenhouses. They are getting old, retiring. They just wanted to take care of their

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huge flock of sheep. And so he took over their farm, improved it in a lot of ways because

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they've just been doing it their way forever. New blood comes in, sees that, improves upon it.

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And he was like, look, I wanted to farm. I got into this not needing to make money. I didn't

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want to make money. He's like 26. And he just wanted to live a good life. And in talking to

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him, he's like, yeah, I bought another business that does freeze dried because that's the value

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added product. When you have fresh food that goes bad, it's such one, you can't get paid the amount

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that you really need to get paid in order to make that business very profitable, especially in an

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where a lot of people are doing it.

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And two, it's just, it's an insane amount of work.

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And he's like, man, I didn't, I got into this,

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like not planning on making money, but wow, that's a lot of work.

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I'm going to start doing something slightly different.

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So now he's kind of the buyer of last resort for all the farms, which is great because it

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supplies them when their, let's say, tomato crop or zucchini crop goes insane.

229
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When zucchinis go insane and guess what?

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Everyone else has zucchinis.

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There's a bunch that they can't sell, but he can freeze dry package and sell whenever.

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So he's creating a business that does then help all the other farmers.

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But you think like, oh, farming is just a lot of work.

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It's a lot of work, not much pay.

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There's the incentives in much of the infrastructure

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set up to not pay small farmers.

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The produce you get at the store is worse.

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So if a small farmer sells to the store,

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they have to make their produce worse

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because they have to pick it early.

241
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Yeah, I don't know.

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There's a lot of ways I could go on that.

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It's kind of never ending.

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Farming's brutal.

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And I'm kind of psyched.

246
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I'm very happy.

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I do my small bit, as in just a few acres, and it's one crop.

248
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But I'm friends with so many farmers that I'm so connected with it that I'm incredibly passionate about it.

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Both from knowing, compared to a lot of people, how much of a LARP I am as far as a farmer.

250
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Because they just go so much harder than me.

251
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And it's, I don't know, it makes you really value supporting them more than just a, like,

252
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oh yeah, I'm going to support the farmers or I want nicer food. It's like, I want you guys to

253
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exist because I value how much work you have because I see it firsthand. I was just a slight

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digression, but I was just thinking as you were talking about your buddy being like the freeze

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dry and being the buyer of last resort, I'm like, so he's basically a Bitcoin miner. He's just

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sucking up all that excess supply and he's load balancing the produce essentially, which is

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just beautiful but no i think for anybody who's even like even if you've had yourself a little

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you know deck or backyard garden like even just that little step you start to realize like oh

259
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one this is a ton of work for my even my little plot like two so many things can go wrong

260
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three like now imagine trying to do that and at scale and make it productive and but more so than

261
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make it productive like make it profitable you know and and you see why this is like this is uh

262
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there's fewer and fewer small farms. There's also obviously a lot of other pressures there

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from some of the, you know, kind of the big industrial farms and just, you know, it's a

264
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lot of them are too big to fail. But when you're a mom and pop farm that's been in the family for

265
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generations, it's a heck of a lot easier to fail, especially with all the new pressures.

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But I think it is a good reminder for people to like, if you have a chance to buy local

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or, you know, buy not local, but like from a small farmer, winemaker like yourself,

268
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you should you should do that when you have the chance like a lot of people I think want to like

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they want to act like oh yeah you know all these these big corporations screwing things up and big

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government screwing things up but then it's like but then you just keep feeding that system you

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keep feeding that beast you don't actually change your actions at all to to do something that might

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move the needle even a little bit I think a lot of times it's because it's slightly less convenient

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or it's slightly more expensive or whatever it might be but it's like you know at a certain point

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you kind of got to put your put your money where your mouth is and decide like okay do i actually

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want to try and support and further the thing that i purport to care about so much or do i want to

276
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just kind of keep keep larping along but i don't know man it's a it's listening to that just your

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story and the amount of years where you've had kind of shit hit the fan in one way or another

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Like, yeah, again, like wildfires in another state made birds migrate at a different, like, you know, it's just like, there's, there's just no way you're, you're anticipating that.

279
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Right.

280
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But I mean, so for, you mentioned the sellers are pretty, uh, still like fairly full from past overflow years.

281
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So, I mean, if this was going to happen, was this like, in some ways, like, okay, this, this happened on a, on a good year from your long-term planning perspective?

282
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Yeah.

283
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I mean, sure.

284
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I know it's not good.

285
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It's not good.

286
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But like, yeah, but yeah, just, you know what I mean?

287
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Yeah.

288
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I mean, it's, it's never a good year, um, to lose it, but as, yeah, as far as things

289
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go, the, the fact that I can kind of rip the bandaid off and reset.

290
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So any other year, my September and October is just completely booked.

291
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I have, I have no ability to really have a life or, uh, be free in a way, or I always

292
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have a lot of responsibility going on because in the vineyard, everything flips for the entire

293
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year. So when I get new grapes, whether mine or from another farm, then I ferment them for two

294
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weeks and I'm very actively watching that ferment, punching down at least twice a day,

295
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morning and night. I mean, there's plenty of days where I work a massive day prepping,

296
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like processing the grapes in some way And then I go to bed after a long day and I like wake up at 11 a like I forgot to punch down and I have to like get out of bed and run down

297
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And so it's just kind of a huge weight on your mind and a lot of work. Everything that was in

298
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barrel has to go into bottles so that the new wine can go into the barrels. Whereas the rest of the

299
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year, I touch the wine every six weeks or so to top off the barrels. So the rest of the year is

300
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relatively chill when it comes to winemaking, then it all happens at once, both with new grapes

301
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and the produced wine. And so what's great about it happening this year is, yes, I was already

302
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planning on scaling down production for a year. And this makes it so that I can just take that

303
00:26:45,908 --> 00:26:51,348
load off for a year, as opposed to still having to do production, just being bummed that I don't

304
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have my grapes. So it is as far as like the most cathartic timing, it's absolutely the right time

305
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to have that. And not adding wine to my cellar is fine right now as the overproduction is real.

306
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I mean, I'm not glad to hear that they were the bears came in and destroyed your grapes. I am glad

307
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to hear that if something really shitty was going to happen. Well, there are shittier times where it

308
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could have compounded the shittiness.

309
00:27:21,268 --> 00:27:22,728
I wanted to ask you, though, too,

310
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just speaking of shit and shit posting,

311
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maybe you can give some numbers on this,

312
00:27:27,968 --> 00:27:30,368
but I know a lot of your sales

313
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come through kind of the Bitcoin,

314
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like let's say the Bitcoin funnel broadly,

315
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whether those are paid in Bitcoin,

316
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maybe you can kind of give as much of a breakdown

317
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as you're comfortable with that.

318
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But also like your, you know,

319
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your marketing strategy is,

320
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let's say a little bit unconventional

321
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from what you might expect.

322
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And I think you've been able to grow this really devoted customer base because you're just kind of, you know, you're just yourself online, you're shitposting your way to sales.

323
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Like this is, you know, maybe this is something, I don't know if this is replicable across all types of businesses, but I think you do see more of it these days, even from bigger brands trying to get their, you know, their cracked intern in there to, you know, say some real wild stuff and have them go viral on X.

324
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But like, how is your experience with that been?

325
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Can you give us a little bit of a breakdown of what your sort of sales makeup is in terms of Bitcoiners, non-Bitcoiners paying in Bitcoin, but or paying in fiat?

326
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And just, you know, would you would you do anything differently?

327
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Or do you think this has been a pretty good bang for your buck, let's say, or bang for your sat scenario in terms of how you've spread the word about your wine?

328
00:28:36,648 --> 00:28:39,708
So 100 percent of my customers are Bitcoiners.

329
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And 100% of them found me through Twitter, weirdly LinkedIn, or Noster.

330
00:28:49,868 --> 00:28:53,408
And that is entirely an emergent phenomenon.

331
00:28:53,768 --> 00:28:56,228
I did not set out to do this.

332
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I set out to start a winery and bet on myself when I was 25 and was not on Twitter, didn't know anything about Bitcoin.

333
00:29:02,568 --> 00:29:07,868
and sold at farmer's markets,

334
00:29:08,048 --> 00:29:10,408
hoping to open a tasting room in my hometown.

335
00:29:11,368 --> 00:29:13,688
And the farmer's markets were great for getting started.

336
00:29:14,008 --> 00:29:17,268
And every year I would get to better farmer's markets

337
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and I would decrease the amount

338
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because it's a brutal 12-hour day.

339
00:29:21,148 --> 00:29:22,968
And you're saying the same thing over and over,

340
00:29:23,108 --> 00:29:23,848
sales, driving.

341
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And I started out doing five a week.

342
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So five 12-hour days driving around the state

343
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and then went to four, three, two.

344
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and in that time you're sitting at the farmer's market booth a lot of times there's no one there

345
00:29:37,428 --> 00:29:44,768
I found like staring at people hoping for them to come up didn't work so I was just getting up

346
00:29:44,768 --> 00:29:50,428
would just get on my phone and hope my booth would bring people in and my buddy who got me into

347
00:29:50,428 --> 00:29:55,268
Bitcoin knew everything about the Broncos and knew everything about Bitcoin faster than I did

348
00:29:55,268 --> 00:29:56,788
and he did so on Twitter.

349
00:29:57,188 --> 00:29:58,588
So I got on Twitter, started posting

350
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and Bitcoiner started asking me

351
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if they could buy my wine

352
00:30:03,368 --> 00:30:05,068
because I started posting about what I was doing.

353
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And of course, wanting more Bitcoin, I said yes.

354
00:30:10,188 --> 00:30:14,148
And that just slowly, more and more people found out.

355
00:30:14,228 --> 00:30:16,688
I just kept being myself, in the beginning,

356
00:30:16,768 --> 00:30:18,148
not really expecting anything to work.

357
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And then it was working, whatever I was doing,

358
00:30:22,088 --> 00:30:23,708
which wasn't trying to work.

359
00:30:23,708 --> 00:30:27,668
and so I've kind of just stuck to that

360
00:30:27,668 --> 00:30:30,128
just be myself and it works

361
00:30:30,128 --> 00:30:32,648
and it got to the point where I was selling enough wine that way

362
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that I didn't have to do the 12-hour farmer's markets anymore

363
00:30:35,188 --> 00:30:39,848
so in that I was like

364
00:30:39,848 --> 00:30:42,148
well I don't like dealing with

365
00:30:42,148 --> 00:30:45,688
I don't want to work in the service industry

366
00:30:45,688 --> 00:30:48,688
I worked in a couple restaurants because I didn't have enough wine to sell

367
00:30:48,688 --> 00:30:50,568
so I would sell wine at farmer's markets in the summer

368
00:30:50,568 --> 00:30:53,348
move to a ski town, work in a restaurant

369
00:30:53,708 --> 00:30:56,208
repeat the repeat the cycle for a couple years.

370
00:30:56,208 --> 00:30:59,608
And having done that, I was like, I don't want to open a tasting room.

371
00:30:59,608 --> 00:31:00,808
I don't want to deal with that.

372
00:31:00,808 --> 00:31:02,908
Slash, I also don't have the money to deal with that.

373
00:31:05,308 --> 00:31:20,864
And yeah went full time into shit posting on Twitter I guess for my business And part of it is like what what do I wish I could do better Well I wish I had two of me and we could do all the other business stuff

374
00:31:20,864 --> 00:31:21,484
that worked better,

375
00:31:21,604 --> 00:31:23,164
but there's only so much time in the day

376
00:31:23,164 --> 00:31:27,624
and I haven't taken advantage of every sales opportunity

377
00:31:27,624 --> 00:31:29,744
or every marketing possibility

378
00:31:29,744 --> 00:31:31,864
and that's definitely held me back,

379
00:31:31,964 --> 00:31:32,784
but at the same time,

380
00:31:32,784 --> 00:31:36,284
I kind of just want to do what I do

381
00:31:36,284 --> 00:31:37,984
and if I don't scale super big,

382
00:31:38,044 --> 00:31:39,384
that's totally fine with me.

383
00:31:39,384 --> 00:31:45,864
So what I'm doing is something that I don't have.

384
00:31:45,984 --> 00:31:46,904
Like, I'm not big.

385
00:31:47,004 --> 00:31:52,304
I have one guy doing this, and I don't really want to get big.

386
00:31:52,404 --> 00:31:53,724
I've seen enough of the wine world.

387
00:31:54,084 --> 00:32:00,504
I've seen enough of the service industry world that it's not something I just want to be part of.

388
00:32:00,504 --> 00:32:08,184
Like, the wine world just gives me the ick in a lot of ways, in the same way a lot of crypto does.

389
00:32:08,184 --> 00:32:12,064
and it's not something that I want to build my business to then start touching.

390
00:32:12,284 --> 00:32:18,264
So I'm fine with like my small niche, good fans, people who like my wine,

391
00:32:18,384 --> 00:32:20,024
people who have the same values as me.

392
00:32:20,024 --> 00:32:23,504
And I don't really care to expand beyond that,

393
00:32:23,704 --> 00:32:26,824
which gives me the flexibility to be myself.

394
00:32:28,104 --> 00:32:31,124
And I think just this little sidebar,

395
00:32:31,304 --> 00:32:35,964
when it comes to like trying to make memes or be funny online,

396
00:32:35,964 --> 00:32:44,484
you have to be okay with pissing some people off and i mean i i think there's enough people that

397
00:32:44,484 --> 00:32:50,144
that like me that it works but like i definitely piss some people off and that's you just have to

398
00:32:50,144 --> 00:32:56,384
be okay with that and to be okay with that i also have to be okay with scaling my brand and scaling

399
00:32:56,384 --> 00:33:01,324
whatever you know scaling scaling pene lane my sales people who know about it in a way that's

400
00:33:01,324 --> 00:33:07,284
like not trying to appease everyone. And since I'm okay with, Hey, this company is, I just make

401
00:33:07,284 --> 00:33:13,844
wine for Bitcoiners and that's enough for me. Um, it's worked. And I, it's, it's funny whenever,

402
00:33:13,844 --> 00:33:19,164
whenever I say something that pisses someone off, they're always like, well, I thought about buying

403
00:33:19,164 --> 00:33:22,404
your wine and then now I won't like, okay, cool. So you weren't a customer and now you're still not

404
00:33:22,404 --> 00:33:29,584
a customer. Um, cool. So if I am afraid of pissing people like you off, I will never create any

405
00:33:29,584 --> 00:33:33,744
loyalty from people who do like me do agree with me because I'll be too afraid to say anything

406
00:33:33,744 --> 00:33:41,324
that might piss someone off and it's just a shooter shoot you know so um there's a lot of

407
00:33:41,324 --> 00:33:48,324
things that like whatever uh I don't know it's a it's a funny world doing what I do on Twitter

408
00:33:48,324 --> 00:33:54,544
because you just you kind of just got to be okay with being an idiot sometimes and uh not afraid to

409
00:33:54,544 --> 00:33:56,924
I bet you're wrong or that's what I do at least.

410
00:33:58,604 --> 00:34:01,264
So yeah, 100% Bitcoiners are my customers.

411
00:34:01,624 --> 00:34:04,164
It really ranges as far as how many people spend Bitcoin.

412
00:34:04,304 --> 00:34:08,924
But I'll say it's harder to buy my wine with Bitcoin than it is with dollars.

413
00:34:10,004 --> 00:34:18,924
Liquor licensing puts me in a specific silo as far as my online sales provider, I guess,

414
00:34:18,924 --> 00:34:19,584
on my website.

415
00:34:20,224 --> 00:34:23,744
The company you have to go through to buy my wine does not like Bitcoin.

416
00:34:23,744 --> 00:34:41,024
But they do allow me to have liquor licenses in all the states that I'm allowed to. And since I'm a one-man show, getting all those liquor licenses, filing all those taxes state by state, one would not be cost effective and two would just not be possible with the amount of time I have.

417
00:34:41,024 --> 00:34:46,244
so I'm stuck with them I've looked into other party other compliance partners and it's just

418
00:34:46,244 --> 00:34:50,304
not possible they don't like bitcoin so I have a separate checkout for bitcoin and I just input

419
00:34:50,304 --> 00:34:57,804
everything as a cash sale into my normal checkout to be fine with the liquor licensing gods and so

420
00:34:57,804 --> 00:35:03,884
you have to go to another site or another page on my site and there's less options because it's

421
00:35:03,884 --> 00:35:09,704
less functionality and buy with bitcoin or a lot of people dm me and I do the same thing going

422
00:35:09,704 --> 00:35:17,004
through my normal site. And it's more work both for me and for them. And sometimes up to 50% of

423
00:35:17,004 --> 00:35:24,064
my sales are in Bitcoin in a given month. It's usually like at least 25 to 30%. And I find that

424
00:35:24,064 --> 00:35:30,244
that's because they're buying from me. They're not buying from some company that I don't know

425
00:35:30,244 --> 00:35:35,444
the face of, or I'm not specifically supporting the founder, or I like their product, but like

426
00:35:35,444 --> 00:35:41,824
their mission is not number one, whatever it is, a lot of those, like, I'll just, I'll buy with

427
00:35:41,824 --> 00:35:47,744
dollars. It's easier. And that's, that's fine with me. Like I, if it's someone that I want to

428
00:35:47,744 --> 00:35:53,364
support specifically, who's doing something awesome, I'm especially face to face with them,

429
00:35:53,424 --> 00:35:57,184
like a hundred percent, I'll pay with Bitcoin. Cause I know what that means. It feels so good

430
00:35:57,184 --> 00:36:03,304
to get paid in Bitcoin. Um, but if you're just running a company and you also have a pay with

431
00:36:03,304 --> 00:36:10,224
Bitcoin button. Some people will, but a lot of people won't just because their card information

432
00:36:10,224 --> 00:36:14,744
is already saved. They don't want the taxable event. They don't have a wallet on their phone,

433
00:36:14,824 --> 00:36:21,644
whatever it is. So it's all, I don't know, it's all trade-offs. I'm happy to be lower scaled and

434
00:36:21,644 --> 00:36:34,760
have a strong audience of people who like my wine or want to support what I stand for And it works for me I don have any delusions that this scales massively and I don want it to

435
00:36:36,380 --> 00:36:42,860
I mean, I think it's a nice place to be at to know what your kind of customer niche is. And it's wild

436
00:36:42,860 --> 00:36:49,580
that you've got anywhere from 25 to 30 or even 50% of sales coming in in Bitcoin. I'm curious too,

437
00:36:49,580 --> 00:37:16,800
I mean, do you think you have a bit of a different perspective on Bitcoin than somebody who is like, because you're, you know, you're not just holding it. And yes, guys, for anyone who's about to get their pitchforks out, just holding Bitcoin and saving in Bitcoin is still a form of using Bitcoin. I'm not, not ragging on you. I like to use Bitcoin as money as a medium of exchange whenever I can, because for the same reasons you said, it's like, I'm not going to really do it. The only like bigger brand that I use that is Steak and Shake.

438
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,080
because I want to support them doing that.

439
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:21,540
And I think it's sweet and I spend it

440
00:37:21,540 --> 00:37:23,880
and I just buy the same amount of sats back right after.

441
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:24,480
Not a big deal.

442
00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:27,840
But I love doing it for like independent businesses

443
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:28,880
like your own, right?

444
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,220
But do you think that your perspective on it,

445
00:37:31,620 --> 00:37:33,300
given that you earn the Bitcoin,

446
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:34,780
like you're not just holding it,

447
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:35,620
you're not just spending it,

448
00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:37,240
you are also actively earning it

449
00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:39,420
as a huge part of your revenue base.

450
00:37:40,220 --> 00:37:42,880
I guess, how has that kind of changed your perspective on it,

451
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,060
even from when you sort of were first getting into

452
00:37:45,060 --> 00:37:46,220
where you're at now?

453
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:55,180
well um it's been a long journey in a lot of ways so i can't totally pinpoint exactly how that has

454
00:37:55,180 --> 00:38:04,640
changed my my perspective on it but i think i think i'm just a i find there are there's a sub

455
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,420
there's people of all different ranges of philosophies on this and i there's definitely

456
00:38:08,420 --> 00:38:13,800
a subsect of people who are i think the the opposite of the ones you were just couching

457
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:20,140
your statement for the ones who are like you should only spend you should be 100 spending

458
00:38:20,140 --> 00:38:25,860
bitcoin if you don't spend bitcoin it's you know we're not going to win um and while there's truth

459
00:38:25,860 --> 00:38:32,520
to that i just don't think it's as much of a imminent i'm not worried about it imminently

460
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:41,900
and i say that because i've seen all ranges of people spend bitcoin for me and also like i see

461
00:38:41,900 --> 00:38:48,140
it's it's all voting with your money right whether you vote with your money with your

462
00:38:48,140 --> 00:38:53,800
savings whether you vote with your money how you spend and where you spend and bitcoiners spending

463
00:38:53,800 --> 00:39:02,560
dollars to me is very effective way to to vote with your money it's voting for a company that

464
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:08,560
is promoting bitcoin or using bitcoin or producing something that i want to be able to buy with

465
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:14,060
Bitcoin if shit hits the fan one day. And the ultimate vote with your money is paying me and

466
00:39:14,060 --> 00:39:19,440
Bitcoin. I don't ask for anyone's ultimate vote. I very much appreciate it when it comes. But like,

467
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:24,720
I just care that you vote for me. You know, I need to survive. And I've seen people like,

468
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:31,620
you know, they, I've seen people go drive four hours out of their way to come to a farmer's

469
00:39:31,620 --> 00:39:36,160
market and buy my wine with Bitcoin. I've seen people who buy things with Bitcoin all the time.

470
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:43,640
I've seen people who don't have never so many people on their first purchase ever with Bitcoin, which is super.

471
00:39:43,780 --> 00:39:47,240
That's probably the most gratifying thing is like, I'm your first, you know, wow.

472
00:39:48,500 --> 00:39:49,180
That's cool.

473
00:39:49,940 --> 00:39:56,200
But I see the passion in so many people and everyone's got different life philosophies.

474
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:02,060
I've been burned the hard way on like the you should only have Bitcoin, the get on zero movement.

475
00:40:02,460 --> 00:40:05,940
And it turns out get on zero is for people with a lot more Bitcoin than I do.

476
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:07,820
and who earn in fiat.

477
00:40:08,900 --> 00:40:10,720
And it's just like,

478
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,140
there's an adoption curve

479
00:40:15,140 --> 00:40:17,000
for all the three different forms of money.

480
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,560
It's not an adoption curve for Bitcoin.

481
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,360
It's an adoption curve for unit of account,

482
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:23,400
medium of exchange, and store of value.

483
00:40:23,900 --> 00:40:25,160
And the store of value one

484
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:26,980
is a lot farther along than the other two.

485
00:40:27,180 --> 00:40:28,880
The medium of exchange is awesome.

486
00:40:28,980 --> 00:40:30,560
I love using it as a medium of exchange,

487
00:40:30,700 --> 00:40:32,760
but the fact is, is like,

488
00:40:34,620 --> 00:40:35,880
you're an early adopter

489
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,540
if you're using it as a medium exchange.

490
00:40:37,740 --> 00:40:38,780
And that's great.

491
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,120
And like, I have a spreadsheet for my finances

492
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:42,880
and I have a separate spreadsheet for Bitcoin

493
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:44,600
using it as a unit of account.

494
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:46,540
That's not very useful,

495
00:40:46,540 --> 00:40:48,080
except looking at it in the longterm.

496
00:40:48,620 --> 00:40:51,400
So it's like, I don't know.

497
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,360
I think I'm probably just pretty patient

498
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:54,400
when it comes to that.

499
00:40:54,740 --> 00:40:58,680
And I just block out all the noise of doubt,

500
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,240
like people who are against it

501
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:01,760
or people who just want to shit coin

502
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:03,660
and don't understand Bitcoin.

503
00:41:03,660 --> 00:41:05,600
And like, I don't know.

504
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:14,400
people come around i'm tired of i've been a face of bitcoin not on twitter like and not in like a

505
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:22,160
a massive way but i've been public facing bitcoiner in the real world for years i had a sign on my

506
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:28,560
wine stand that said bitcoin preferred and i've had so many people ask me about it or

507
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:33,640
it comes up in every different kind of way you could possibly think of boomers saying like

508
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,060
careful, it's down 50%.

509
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:36,560
It's down 80%.

510
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,460
I've had people come up, be like, so why Bitcoin?

511
00:41:39,460 --> 00:41:39,960
And I go.

512
00:41:39,997 --> 00:41:41,777
because I prefer its monetary policy.

513
00:41:42,017 --> 00:41:43,317
And they're just like blank face.

514
00:41:43,477 --> 00:41:45,257
I've had people be psyched on it

515
00:41:45,257 --> 00:41:46,297
and then they come out like,

516
00:41:46,377 --> 00:41:47,197
can I buy with ETH?

517
00:41:48,117 --> 00:41:50,097
I've met great friends because of that.

518
00:41:50,497 --> 00:41:52,997
And the great friends are amazing.

519
00:41:53,097 --> 00:41:54,477
It made every day of that worth it.

520
00:41:54,597 --> 00:41:58,157
But I'm to the point where it's like,

521
00:41:58,217 --> 00:42:00,217
hey man, you got to do what's good for you.

522
00:42:00,837 --> 00:42:02,937
I appreciate if you like Bitcoin

523
00:42:02,937 --> 00:42:04,257
or if you like my wine

524
00:42:04,257 --> 00:42:06,517
or want to spend it on me,

525
00:42:06,597 --> 00:42:07,757
dollars, Bitcoin, whatever.

526
00:42:07,757 --> 00:42:12,537
But like everyone's just so in their own world and there's no convincing people.

527
00:42:12,937 --> 00:42:14,477
There's there's helping people learn.

528
00:42:14,777 --> 00:42:22,117
But I think I've just gotten maybe I've lost patience, but I'm also so much more patient in the sense that like I just don't push for it anymore.

529
00:42:22,737 --> 00:42:23,537
You are what you are.

530
00:42:23,617 --> 00:42:24,497
You love what you love.

531
00:42:24,697 --> 00:42:31,297
And I think you're going to come to Bitcoin one day, but I don't think trying to convince you is going to help.

532
00:42:31,717 --> 00:42:33,577
That's a really good perspective to have.

533
00:42:33,577 --> 00:42:36,917
I liked what you said about even you're still voting with your money.

534
00:42:36,917 --> 00:42:42,077
even if you're voting with your fiat, but spending that at a Bitcoin or, you know, whatever

535
00:42:42,077 --> 00:42:47,417
might, or a Nost or, you know, whatever it might be, as long as you are in some way putting

536
00:42:47,417 --> 00:42:52,277
your capital towards things that you actually care about, that's what voting with your money

537
00:42:52,277 --> 00:42:52,797
is, right?

538
00:42:52,837 --> 00:42:58,837
And that, again, that may not always be the easiest or the most convenient or the most,

539
00:42:59,017 --> 00:43:03,057
you know, or the cheapest, but like, that's kind of what it's, what it's all about, right?

540
00:43:03,077 --> 00:43:05,997
And there, there was another thing I wanted, I did want to get into with you a little bit

541
00:43:05,997 --> 00:43:12,017
more because you brought it up this idea that you know for people who uh and i respect it who are

542
00:43:12,017 --> 00:43:18,137
like fully on like i like i'm on zero fiat you know like zero fiat like you know can you go into

543
00:43:18,137 --> 00:43:21,417
a little bit more of what you meant with that because i've had that that similar realization

544
00:43:21,417 --> 00:43:27,337
as well where it's like oh no that's easy to say if you've got like a lot of bitcoin you know and

545
00:43:27,337 --> 00:43:33,217
we're selling off a decent you know what would be to you or i a decent amount of bitcoin is like

546
00:43:33,217 --> 00:43:40,017
you know nothing uh or if you have you know an extremely uh an additionally very high income

547
00:43:40,017 --> 00:43:44,957
that's coming in fiat but can you talk about that a little bit i mean do you think that that advice is

548
00:43:44,957 --> 00:43:50,237
is generally not that applicable at least at this stage for most people

549
00:43:50,237 --> 00:43:57,017
yeah i mean i think it kind of comes from the like oh inflation's gonna like eat away

550
00:43:57,017 --> 00:44:03,097
everything right away and that's hyperbolic inflation's bad there could be a wipe out of

551
00:44:03,097 --> 00:44:09,557
some savings um for sure at any point and fiat could die at any point but i think the the longer

552
00:44:09,557 --> 00:44:13,877
you're on bitcoin the more you realize it's a waiting game and yeah you want to be all in you

553
00:44:13,877 --> 00:44:19,817
want to have as much bitcoin as possible but in that waiting game it's also a crazy psychological

554
00:44:19,817 --> 00:44:29,277
battle at all times and cutting out any reason that you might feel inclined to start selling

555
00:44:29,277 --> 00:44:39,557
your Bitcoin at a wrong time or trading it or like not living life because you don't want to

556
00:44:39,557 --> 00:44:43,297
sell your Bitcoin. I think that that you're missing the point. And I say that from experience,

557
00:44:43,297 --> 00:44:49,857
I've absolutely done all those things. And, um, I mean, I haven't, I haven't had any fiat and

558
00:44:49,857 --> 00:44:58,837
well, realistically, since before I started the winery. So, uh, I've been on negative negative

559
00:44:58,837 --> 00:45:03,737
really for a long time, but, uh, it would be really nice to have a little positive fiat and

560
00:45:03,737 --> 00:45:07,997
still Bitcoin and be able to kind of separate those two, as opposed to like, where you're like,

561
00:45:07,997 --> 00:45:13,797
hey, I'm living my life. I have this savings that I spend. And I also have these savings that I

562
00:45:13,797 --> 00:45:23,137
actually save. And it's really nice to separate those two. As someone who I'm like, so leveraged

563
00:45:23,137 --> 00:45:31,117
on Bitcoin without actual leverage, where one, I took out debt to start the winery, and I could

564
00:45:31,117 --> 00:45:35,157
have paid off all that debt, but instead I bought Bitcoin. And so now I have about an equivalent

565
00:45:35,157 --> 00:45:40,557
amount of Bitcoin as I do debt. So net worth is around zero. And that's kind of just the trade

566
00:45:40,557 --> 00:45:45,577
off I've made in terms of like, hey, would you rather have no debt and no Bitcoin or debt and

567
00:45:45,577 --> 00:45:52,817
Bitcoin? Same net worth, right? And additionally, like, sure, I'm saving a Bitcoin. So it's gone up

568
00:45:52,817 --> 00:45:58,897
and down. So before, you know, last year, I was not at zero. It was great. But you hit a bear

569
00:45:58,897 --> 00:46:03,757
market and you're like, okay, cool. So in my position, I'm like, okay, cool. So my savings

570
00:46:03,757 --> 00:46:09,877
In your position, double bear market, to clarify, because you had the literal bears and the, you know, the figurative bears.

571
00:46:10,137 --> 00:46:11,077
So please continue.

572
00:46:11,377 --> 00:46:11,897
No question.

573
00:46:13,257 --> 00:46:14,897
Yeah, I mean, that just adds to it.

574
00:46:14,937 --> 00:46:17,417
That's like beyond the pale of what I was getting to here.

575
00:46:17,417 --> 00:46:26,357
But like it's so I my my savings go down 50 percent and all my customers savings go down 50 percent.

576
00:46:26,357 --> 00:46:38,797
And regardless of whether they have a safety net or have some other investments, they associate me with Bitcoin and they associate, therefore, like if they're thinking about Bitcoin, it's down, they need to buy, they don't need to spend it.

577
00:46:39,437 --> 00:47:06,833
And it puts people in a bit of a you know less spendy or more thrifty or like I won need to think long term here And so it was a combination of like cool all my money went down My customers aren buying in the same way that they were during the bull market And I took I knew like you know four cycle is alive or not However until it proven wrong you need to prepare for it

578
00:47:06,833 --> 00:47:11,853
And so I knew last year I was going to sell some Bitcoin in order to survive the bear market.

579
00:47:12,153 --> 00:47:19,873
And I sold some Bitcoin to buy machinery to scale the winery and then was waiting for Bitcoin to go up more before I sold to survive the bear market.

580
00:47:20,013 --> 00:47:20,533
Never did.

581
00:47:21,113 --> 00:47:23,013
And so I was going to, never did.

582
00:47:23,193 --> 00:47:27,753
And it would have been really nice to have a little bit more of a buffer instead of all in Bitcoin.

583
00:47:28,453 --> 00:47:31,973
And it's easier to make that decision when it's continuous.

584
00:47:31,973 --> 00:47:35,633
I just always kind of have this amount of savings and then the rest goes into Bitcoin.

585
00:47:35,633 --> 00:47:38,593
I live a profitable life.

586
00:47:39,293 --> 00:47:54,033
And I don't know, I'm very much in the now learning the hard way many times that it's nice to be emotionally disconnected from at least your savings, if not your money generally.

587
00:47:54,593 --> 00:47:58,253
And that structure works differently for everybody.

588
00:48:01,133 --> 00:48:04,653
Yeah, I mean, I think it's good advice.

589
00:48:04,653 --> 00:48:09,053
I think where people end up making mistakes or doing things that they ultimately regret later

590
00:48:09,053 --> 00:48:12,353
is when they are a little bit too emotionally wrapped up.

591
00:48:12,433 --> 00:48:14,633
Like there's that, I forget what exactly the meme is,

592
00:48:15,173 --> 00:48:18,373
but it's like your stock doesn't care if you sell it.

593
00:48:18,553 --> 00:48:20,973
You know, like it's not, like its feelings aren't going to be hurt.

594
00:48:21,073 --> 00:48:21,413
You know what I mean?

595
00:48:21,433 --> 00:48:26,293
Like you have to ultimately like do, not speaking about stocks here, but that's the meme,

596
00:48:26,993 --> 00:48:29,313
do whatever is going to be best for you.

597
00:48:29,313 --> 00:48:34,533
And also I think everybody's, it's very easy to get sort of one size fits all prescriptive

598
00:48:34,533 --> 00:48:40,273
in Bitcoin. I myself am certainly guilty of that. But it's really important to remember that like

599
00:48:40,273 --> 00:48:45,213
everyone's circumstances are different. You may have some similar circumstances, but

600
00:48:45,213 --> 00:48:50,213
for sure they're not identical to anyone else's. And you have to ultimately like weigh your own

601
00:48:50,213 --> 00:48:54,833
risks. Like you have to, you have to do the work for yourself and decide what is going to work best

602
00:48:54,833 --> 00:49:00,013
for you. Like somebody who doesn't have your same risk tolerance, like, cause obviously you've got a,

603
00:49:00,013 --> 00:49:04,233
you've got a high risk tolerance as demonstrated on multiple, multiple fronts, obviously.

604
00:49:04,533 --> 00:49:11,613
And a high tolerance for pain too, clearly, because, you know, you got into farming and, you know, entrepreneurship.

605
00:49:12,073 --> 00:49:17,613
So you have to, but also like somebody else might've said like, oh, no, let me, you know, I'm going to pay off this debt, right?

606
00:49:17,633 --> 00:49:19,593
I'm going to get rid of this and then I'll be done with that.

607
00:49:19,613 --> 00:49:20,493
And then I'll start stacking Bitcoin.

608
00:49:20,493 --> 00:49:23,933
You were like, no, I'm going to, I'm going to take the Bitcoin and I'm going to keep the debt.

609
00:49:24,193 --> 00:49:26,473
Like that's, that's not the right move for everyone.

610
00:49:26,533 --> 00:49:29,493
Cause a lot of people just wouldn't be able to handle even the psychological side of it.

611
00:49:29,493 --> 00:49:38,193
So this is a long and short way of saying like, you know, any advice that you hear out there, take it with a grain of salt and figure out how it's going to apply to you.

612
00:49:38,533 --> 00:49:47,333
Because trying to just apply what somebody else does exactly to your own, your own situation generally isn't going to work out the way that they say it will or you think it will.

613
00:49:47,373 --> 00:49:51,013
And if they tell you otherwise, they're probably trying to sell you a course or something like that.

614
00:49:51,053 --> 00:49:53,813
You know, that's, that's generally a good rule there.

615
00:49:54,653 --> 00:49:55,373
I don't know.

616
00:49:55,373 --> 00:50:12,593
And meeting some, over the years, I've met some like Bitcoin financial planners, financial planners who understand Bitcoin and all that. And it's great seeing them be right, I guess, because I think, I mean, I had the mindset of like, ah, I'll just have all my money in Bitcoin and I'll be fine.

617
00:50:12,593 --> 00:50:27,593
And I don't have kids. I'm not married yet. Like it's, you know, my life circumstances is different from what it will be in the future. And so I can't afford to take more risk and seeing, I don't know.

618
00:50:27,593 --> 00:50:33,773
Um, I've, I've had a lot of the like thoughts that I'm, I guess saying were wrong over the

619
00:50:33,773 --> 00:50:38,653
years and I've lived by them and been burned by them and, uh, been so emotionally attached

620
00:50:38,653 --> 00:50:44,813
to Bitcoin that, um, I guess a third 50% drawdown after being all in is, has woken me up to

621
00:50:44,813 --> 00:50:49,433
like, all right, gotta, gotta zoom out, disconnect from this a little bit.

622
00:50:49,573 --> 00:50:51,573
Um, and that's of course when it will pump.

623
00:50:51,573 --> 00:50:57,573
So, um, I'll, I'll learn the hard way another time, but, um, yeah, it's, I don't know.

624
00:50:57,593 --> 00:51:03,813
it's hard i feel like i've lived the the bitcoin ethos as far as like what you're supposed to do

625
00:51:03,813 --> 00:51:10,553
pretty hardcore and uh it hasn't necessarily like paid off it definitely hasn't paid off in the way

626
00:51:10,553 --> 00:51:15,453
that i expected it to um the just sold for four years dude you'll be up it's like i'm kind of

627
00:51:15,453 --> 00:51:21,353
around my cost basis now uh five years later which i guess five years is always worse than four years

628
00:51:21,353 --> 00:51:29,493
um yeah you just i don't know twitter's not a great place for financial advice and that seems

629
00:51:29,493 --> 00:51:35,673
to be a lot of what everyone gives on twitter and why a lot of people are on twitter and

630
00:51:35,673 --> 00:51:45,293
uh you gotta disconnect with it so yeah i don't know yeah i yeah shout out to the the bitcoin

631
00:51:45,293 --> 00:51:49,793
financial planners out there you know i mean i remember you know just even uh like morgan richard

632
00:51:49,793 --> 00:51:50,953
It's one that comes to mind.

633
00:51:52,033 --> 00:51:52,953
And she's awesome.

634
00:51:52,953 --> 00:51:54,913
And that's like what what she does.

635
00:51:54,913 --> 00:51:56,753
And it's interesting because she's

636
00:51:57,433 --> 00:52:12,389
I think the Bitcoin financial planners have sort of been proven right against the fiat financial planners because they been right about Bitcoin They also been sort of proven right against the bitcoiners because they been right about the need to like hey it it a good thing to maintain a little bit of a cash cushion cushion for things like it

637
00:52:12,389 --> 00:52:18,189
a good thing to not be a forced seller or to not be able to buy when you really really want to buy

638
00:52:18,189 --> 00:52:24,889
again so that's a again a life circumstance like you said like not being married and not having

639
00:52:24,889 --> 00:52:29,589
kids like this you can have a different risk tolerance like that's that's how it should be

640
00:52:29,589 --> 00:52:36,189
right? And then, you know, things change a little bit and your risk tolerance sort of shifts,

641
00:52:36,349 --> 00:52:41,869
priority shifts a little bit. But it's, you know, it's wild, right? Just to your point about like,

642
00:52:41,949 --> 00:52:48,509
you know, holding it for four or five years and, you know, like we were promised Valhalla and then,

643
00:52:48,569 --> 00:52:52,849
you know, here we are dying on the battlefield trying to reach for our axe, bleeding out,

644
00:52:52,969 --> 00:52:57,129
you know, just want to grab that axe so that we can, of course, make it to Valhalla and sup with

645
00:52:57,129 --> 00:53:03,029
the gods but it's been a pretty brutal like if you got into i got into bitcoin in 2020 you know

646
00:53:03,029 --> 00:53:08,549
i'm i'm not a not an og bitcoiner by any means i mean someday this is you and i are both going

647
00:53:08,549 --> 00:53:14,629
to be considered ogs in the next 10 20 years but not right now right but these the since i have

648
00:53:14,629 --> 00:53:20,669
been in like it's been i mean i bought all the way up to the 2021 69k top and then we found

649
00:53:20,669 --> 00:53:27,889
ourselves back at you know after that brutal you know down to 16k bear and chugging along there

650
00:53:27,889 --> 00:53:33,109
oscillating around 19k forever and then in the 20 then you know chug chug chugs up does it bitcoin

651
00:53:33,109 --> 00:53:38,829
does its thing but then like to find ourselves back at 69k again and then to you know tag 58k

652
00:53:38,829 --> 00:53:45,229
again 58k gang just absolutely vindicated it's been a pretty i mean maybe every time in bitcoin

653
00:53:45,229 --> 00:53:49,849
feels like this when you're in it and it's only in retrospect we're like well that wasn't that bad

654
00:53:49,849 --> 00:53:55,509
and look, I'm a genius now. But I don't know, it feels to me as though it's been a pretty rough,

655
00:53:55,629 --> 00:54:00,589
even relative to the rest of Bitcoin's history, pretty rough time to like get into Bitcoin if you

656
00:54:00,589 --> 00:54:05,589
got in any time in the last, you know, the last few years, unless you like got like you just

657
00:54:05,589 --> 00:54:10,129
started stacking like right at the 2022 bottom, and just like went all in right there. Like that

658
00:54:10,129 --> 00:54:14,609
would have been a great, great initial entry point. Wasn't me, it went in as hard as I could,

659
00:54:14,609 --> 00:54:21,569
you know, never stacking hard enough. But yeah, it's, it's, it's curious. I think that a lot of

660
00:54:21,569 --> 00:54:27,029
the, and you know, maybe that's also why we've seen so much just recently, sort of division

661
00:54:27,029 --> 00:54:34,429
within the Bitcoin ecosystem. I think a lot of it comes down to people just being like pissed off

662
00:54:34,429 --> 00:54:38,529
because price isn't doing what they think. Like, I don't know what your thoughts are on it, but I'm,

663
00:54:38,529 --> 00:54:44,009
I love the opinion that it's like a good bull market rip basically just makes everybody happy

664
00:54:44,009 --> 00:54:45,609
and all the infighting goes away.

665
00:54:45,689 --> 00:54:47,149
And we start remembering that, you know,

666
00:54:47,149 --> 00:54:49,809
we're fighting against the central bankers

667
00:54:49,809 --> 00:54:52,489
and, you know, the cantillionaires of the world,

668
00:54:52,729 --> 00:54:54,329
not necessarily each other.

669
00:54:54,429 --> 00:54:55,809
But it's like when we're chop solidating,

670
00:54:55,869 --> 00:54:56,509
when we're bearish,

671
00:54:57,029 --> 00:54:58,529
people just want to go at each other's throats.

672
00:54:58,669 --> 00:55:00,769
They want somebody within their group

673
00:55:00,769 --> 00:55:01,869
to make the scapegoat.

674
00:55:01,969 --> 00:55:04,669
At least that's my impression of it.

675
00:55:04,689 --> 00:55:05,689
I don't know where you're at on that.

676
00:55:06,909 --> 00:55:08,589
Yeah, I mean, you've talked to Michael Sullivan.

677
00:55:08,849 --> 00:55:11,769
I think that you're probably more familiar

678
00:55:11,769 --> 00:55:13,249
with his work than I am necessarily.

679
00:55:13,249 --> 00:55:20,249
But his sentiment analysis, just seeing it from afar is like very clarifying.

680
00:55:21,149 --> 00:55:25,809
And it's helped me disassociate, I guess, because my world of Bitcoin has been Twitter.

681
00:55:26,469 --> 00:55:31,549
And I've taken a lot of financial advice or wanted to and didn't, whatever it is.

682
00:55:31,589 --> 00:55:32,209
That's all you see.

683
00:55:33,009 --> 00:55:38,649
And it's just like I'm aware of it now, I guess.

684
00:55:38,649 --> 00:55:42,509
So noticing it more of the, oh, cool, we're up 4% today.

685
00:55:42,509 --> 00:55:44,029
and it feels like we're going to keep going up.

686
00:55:44,089 --> 00:55:45,589
So now we're all friends and we're not going to argue.

687
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:47,349
And then sure enough, we're down.

688
00:55:47,909 --> 00:55:51,669
And I put it out there too, negative energy

689
00:55:51,669 --> 00:55:53,989
or call people out or whatever it is

690
00:55:53,989 --> 00:55:56,309
and turns into a whole thing.

691
00:55:56,889 --> 00:55:59,669
And yeah, when something goes wrong,

692
00:55:59,729 --> 00:56:00,869
you look for people to blame.

693
00:56:01,509 --> 00:56:05,729
And since I guess no one else is taking us seriously right now,

694
00:56:05,849 --> 00:56:07,369
there's no one else to blame but ourselves

695
00:56:07,369 --> 00:56:09,089
and also the personal responsibility.

696
00:56:09,269 --> 00:56:10,269
I think a lot of Bitcoiners get,

697
00:56:10,269 --> 00:56:32,469
But yeah, I mean, what a wild time price wise. I never experienced any of the wild time like consensus change wise prior. It was kind of a. While the price wasn't performing, it got in. It was proven right. There was big debasement during COVID and then you were proven wrong because it went down.

698
00:56:32,469 --> 00:56:38,189
uh but then etf started happening government started adopted it went up up a bunch and then

699
00:56:38,189 --> 00:56:45,629
now it's now it's infighting and it's i don't know there's plenty of reasons why i've anyone

700
00:56:45,629 --> 00:56:50,229
who predicts price anymore i'm just like look i get it there's some stuff you can point at and

701
00:56:50,229 --> 00:56:54,449
you can you have to make educated bets but i'm like okay cool you're predicting a price bro nice

702
00:56:54,449 --> 00:57:03,049
that sounds fun i'm sure that'll work out um yeah i i don't know i'm i'm it's constant infighting

703
00:57:03,049 --> 00:57:11,249
it was what a breath of fresh air after uh bip 110 passed and i could feel the weight lift off

704
00:57:11,249 --> 00:57:22,806
and i was definitely like it gonna it gonna freaking pump right after that isn it that that such a time That I don know man It a funny time to be in Bitcoin

705
00:57:22,946 --> 00:57:24,786
Like, I'm still so fucking bullish.

706
00:57:26,106 --> 00:57:30,826
And I just am definitely a little bit beaten down right now for multiple reasons.

707
00:57:31,486 --> 00:57:34,546
And I don't know.

708
00:57:34,726 --> 00:57:35,846
Life's good, though, at the same time.

709
00:57:35,846 --> 00:57:38,406
Like, I'm really excited for the time off.

710
00:57:38,406 --> 00:57:42,326
a little bit more time to mess around with AI,

711
00:57:42,606 --> 00:57:45,026
do other things and have a bit more of a life.

712
00:57:48,166 --> 00:57:50,786
Very much thinking we're past the bottom

713
00:57:50,786 --> 00:57:56,426
and just am very happy that despite all the ups and downs,

714
00:57:56,526 --> 00:57:58,106
like I feel like I have a lot more clarity

715
00:57:58,106 --> 00:57:59,526
when it comes to Bitcoin.

716
00:57:59,746 --> 00:58:02,146
I've disassociated myself a lot more emotionally

717
00:58:02,146 --> 00:58:04,106
and I think that's healthy for the long run.

718
00:58:05,986 --> 00:58:07,926
Yeah, getting ready to be winter, gonna ski.

719
00:58:07,926 --> 00:58:11,826
yeah life i mean life's good yeah shitty things have happened life's good

720
00:58:11,826 --> 00:58:18,346
man uh yeah and another shout out to michael solvon because i know he's he's watching the

721
00:58:18,346 --> 00:58:23,586
live right now if you guys haven't followed him he's also got a uh a great book which i

722
00:58:23,586 --> 00:58:27,486
happen to have narrated when my voice was not as fucked as it currently is right now

723
00:58:27,486 --> 00:58:33,366
uh which is a little more batman-y than usual but blood of the bourgeoisie um if you can't spell it

724
00:58:33,366 --> 00:58:36,586
you're not allowed to read it so that's what i always know you should you can listen to it that's

725
00:58:36,586 --> 00:58:43,706
i haven't read it yeah you know you can listen to my dog so yeah it's okay it's okay i do either i

726
00:58:43,706 --> 00:58:48,186
just i just made up new words yeah i just made up new words for his book as you you know just

727
00:58:48,186 --> 00:58:54,266
just hit publish on it no but uh no the sentiment analysis he did is awesome he did some work with

728
00:58:54,266 --> 00:58:59,946
checkmate as well checkmates is the only james check this is the only like newsletter that i

729
00:58:59,946 --> 00:59:06,266
actually pay for like because i think it actually is like valuable and i'm like you know this is this

730
00:59:06,266 --> 00:59:11,266
this is something I'm good with, with parting with, uh, parting with some money for. Um, so

731
00:59:11,266 --> 00:59:16,226
shout out to both of those guys because they, they did a great piece and I did record an episode

732
00:59:16,226 --> 00:59:22,466
with them right after that called peak apathy. And I think that phrase right there just so

733
00:59:22,466 --> 00:59:29,526
perfectly defines kind of where we've been at with Bitcoin. Like just seeming like nobody's

734
00:59:29,526 --> 00:59:34,486
there. Everyone's focused on whatever the other shiny object in the room is, whether it's AI,

735
00:59:34,486 --> 00:59:40,966
whether it's i don't know transvestite underwater basket weaving like i don't know you know whatever

736
00:59:40,966 --> 00:59:46,326
whatever people are focusing on these days um and and to me though like i look at that

737
00:59:47,126 --> 00:59:54,326
and that analysis then also just the general vibe and especially kind of the vibe since uh

738
00:59:56,006 --> 00:59:59,606
like it's the hits have kept coming like not only did you have a contentious you know

739
00:59:59,606 --> 01:00:05,706
bunch of hard forkers forking off and starting their their own chain and you know calling everybody

740
01:00:05,706 --> 01:00:11,926
a bunch of uh bunch of slanderous or libelous i always get those two mixed up names while they

741
01:00:11,926 --> 01:00:17,226
were slandering and libeling i guess uh but not only did you have that you had the cold card thing

742
01:00:17,226 --> 01:00:20,506
then you've had all these security breaches and all this other shit and so it's like even for the

743
01:00:20,506 --> 01:00:26,726
people who were here and did care about bitcoin you just kept getting just like just pounded like

744
01:00:26,726 --> 01:00:33,046
just absolutely wrecked but bitcoin kind of keeps chugging along and i just i'm with you where it's

745
01:00:33,046 --> 01:00:37,746
like i'm still so fucking i've remained i'm bullish i'm probably more bullish than ever

746
01:00:37,746 --> 01:00:44,346
because we've chop solidated to borrow a checkmate term for so long because this has been so many

747
01:00:44,346 --> 01:00:49,786
people have felt disappointed by the this you know the past couple years of performance depending on

748
01:00:49,786 --> 01:00:54,126
i think that's a function of again when you were stacking the hardest also and then also just

749
01:00:54,126 --> 01:00:58,926
because like you've got all this money sloshing around all this money that's been funneled into

750
01:00:58,926 --> 01:01:04,686
AI, all these AI doomers who are trying to basically, you know, uh, trying to dig their

751
01:01:04,686 --> 01:01:08,586
regulatory moats as deeply as they can because they know that they can actually justify those

752
01:01:08,586 --> 01:01:13,586
giant valuations. And I just can't help but thinking that boy, at a certain point,

753
01:01:13,746 --> 01:01:18,166
a very large amount of money starts realizing that most shit is just fake.

754
01:01:18,166 --> 01:01:26,966
uh and they want something that's real and the anyone that's not a boomer isn't really buying

755
01:01:26,966 --> 01:01:33,286
gold meaningfully you know maybe maybe like maybe like a little bit okay but like like let's be

756
01:01:33,286 --> 01:01:39,106
honest it's mostly the boomers buying gold i don't know and like the special needs people buying

757
01:01:39,106 --> 01:01:46,046
silver um but you know more power to them but the point here is that like it just seems like there is

758
01:01:46,046 --> 01:01:53,466
a large flood of capital that is waiting to come into Bitcoin, or not perhaps waiting is the wrong

759
01:01:53,466 --> 01:01:58,126
word, that will come into Bitcoin once people realize that most of the other options on the

760
01:01:58,126 --> 01:02:04,506
table just don't really have any degree of certainty behind them and seem pretty fake.

761
01:02:05,186 --> 01:02:11,126
Like, whether it's, you know, government bonds or an overpriced, you know, frontier model IPO,

762
01:02:11,126 --> 01:02:14,646
where they're, you know, like, I don't know.

763
01:02:14,646 --> 01:02:18,066
I'm happy to be very heavily in Bitcoin right now,

764
01:02:18,066 --> 01:02:19,806
and will continue to be.

765
01:02:19,806 --> 01:02:21,866
And like, I think that that's the other thing is that

766
01:02:21,866 --> 01:02:26,526
so much of the, I think crypto is mostly dying

767
01:02:26,526 --> 01:02:29,946
because prediction markets and just, you know,

768
01:02:29,982 --> 01:02:36,022
that legalized actual gambling online has become so easy that it's like, well, you don't need a

769
01:02:36,022 --> 01:02:39,562
token. You can just do the actual gambling, which is the reason you came here in the first place,

770
01:02:39,602 --> 01:02:43,922
right? You can use your insider information for real gambling, not for like tokenized

771
01:02:43,922 --> 01:02:48,842
blockchain gambling that you end up getting wrecked in more. This is a very long and roundabout

772
01:02:48,842 --> 01:02:54,502
way of saying that I think that if you're stacking sats right now, if you're in Bitcoin right now,

773
01:02:54,502 --> 01:03:00,542
and if you are still bullish like you and i are boy there's just kind of like

774
01:03:00,542 --> 01:03:06,282
never been a better time i think there's never been a better time because bitcoin's mature enough

775
01:03:06,282 --> 01:03:11,602
where it's not like oh is it gonna die like now the nobody's stopping this thing nothing is stopping

776
01:03:11,602 --> 01:03:16,922
this bitcoin train and at the same time you've got an incredibly mispriced asset that's only worth

777
01:03:16,922 --> 01:03:21,702
a trillion and a half dollars when you've got you know single companies that are still worth

778
01:03:21,702 --> 01:03:27,922
multiples of that gold worth many multiples of that like we're so fucking early but sadly

779
01:03:27,922 --> 01:03:32,962
i think that it's still going to be a long time it's not going to be until bitcoin's hitting half

780
01:03:32,962 --> 01:03:38,222
a million dollars a coin that you start to really see people waking up i think and i think that's

781
01:03:38,222 --> 01:03:42,602
going to happen a lot quicker than people realize i don't have a price prediction timeline or

782
01:03:42,602 --> 01:03:48,022
anything like that uh to your earlier point but it's like i don't think most people end up waking

783
01:03:48,022 --> 01:03:54,002
up until the pain gets so much on one side of things or the pull gets so strong in the Bitcoin

784
01:03:54,002 --> 01:03:59,002
side of things that they're like, oh, I guess I do need to pay attention to it. But that's just

785
01:03:59,002 --> 01:04:02,922
more opportunity for those of us who are paying attention now. That's the way I look at it. It's

786
01:04:02,922 --> 01:04:09,102
like everybody else ignoring it, everybody else's apathy, that is your opportunity. So I don't know.

787
01:04:09,802 --> 01:04:15,842
Set your DCA, smash buy when you can, earn Bitcoin if you can. That's, I think, just a beautiful way

788
01:04:15,842 --> 01:04:21,382
to do it of course report any earned bitcoin to the relevant government authority that's that's

789
01:04:21,382 --> 01:04:25,522
key um you should always do that and i would never advocate that you just transact without

790
01:04:25,522 --> 01:04:31,822
informing the relevant government authority but yeah i don't know i'm bullish ben i'm bullish

791
01:04:31,822 --> 01:04:38,322
i'm i mean maybe it's maybe it's the pene lane wine talking well that'll do it i'll make you

792
01:04:38,322 --> 01:04:45,582
i'll make bears bull uh walker i'm kind of laughing because i feel like i said all the

793
01:04:45,582 --> 01:04:50,462
things that you said like at the top and over the last five years every single day or whenever i was

794
01:04:50,462 --> 01:04:54,982
asked you know it's a great time to buy um obviously was wrong about certain those but

795
01:04:54,982 --> 01:05:00,762
only you were only wrong sometimes to be fair yes well and if you zoom out far enough i was right

796
01:05:00,762 --> 01:05:10,622
yeah but i mean absolutely it just if i mean like whoa cool uh dumbass winemaker speaks macro but

797
01:05:10,622 --> 01:05:20,782
it it just feels like the the treasury market and the economy trump whatever like all these forces

798
01:05:20,782 --> 01:05:25,602
are stuck between a rock and a hard place and maybe they break through it seems like the iran

799
01:05:25,602 --> 01:05:30,882
war is is very much like a crackdown on the euro dollar more than anything and cool you want some

800
01:05:30,882 --> 01:05:35,162
clarity in the euro dollar good luck who knows what's going to happen there who knows what's

801
01:05:35,162 --> 01:05:41,982
going to happen with private equity and all the calls for i mean worse just raised yesterday but

802
01:05:41,982 --> 01:05:49,322
like all the calls for the yields to go down for the fed to to cut it's like it seems clear to me

803
01:05:49,322 --> 01:05:54,682
that they're they're they know that yields are going to go up and it's just a matter of main

804
01:05:54,682 --> 01:06:00,042
like maintaining consistency and not having it get loose and crush a ton of people because you

805
01:06:00,042 --> 01:06:05,202
can manage the volatility to a degree and if you can do that people can survive the bond market

806
01:06:05,202 --> 01:06:14,902
won't break but the yields go up the united states can't afford it uh and there's no bringing that

807
01:06:14,902 --> 01:06:19,022
down with with gas prices going up causing inflation which makes them think they have to

808
01:06:19,022 --> 01:06:24,102
raise yields and i don't know i mean there's tons of fiat logic that is just going to happen but

809
01:06:24,102 --> 01:06:30,122
it does feel like now is a time that bitcoin was made for and i guess i've been saying that

810
01:06:30,122 --> 01:06:35,362
the entire time because it is if you zoom out it is this time is what bitcoin was made for but

811
01:06:35,362 --> 01:06:43,462
um very much right now and it's just like okay cool so you really want bitcoin right now but

812
01:06:43,462 --> 01:06:48,422
the price is just going to do what the price is going to do and there's no saying what that can

813
01:06:48,422 --> 01:06:55,982
really be so i agree with you like i i'm you know all in on bitcoin and won't be changing that

814
01:06:55,982 --> 01:07:01,602
anytime soon and expect it to go up and and hopefully it will and hopefully this will be

815
01:07:01,602 --> 01:07:07,562
just kind of that period of time between the crazy rise of the early adopters and then the death of

816
01:07:07,562 --> 01:07:12,222
fiat where we start going up again and that's kind of been my base case i don't know if you've seen

817
01:07:12,222 --> 01:07:17,482
the stock to fomo chart where it's just like you have the the rainbow chart the diminishing returns

818
01:07:17,482 --> 01:07:48,238
And then flip that on its head there an inflection point and it starts going up more And to me that just kind of three eras of Bitcoin The first one is it small and it growing and it more about Bitcoin and early adopters And there not a ton to move the price It going to go up a ton percentage wise And then you get to the middle where you haven really got the big money investors You still got some people who bought real low selling and you don really have enough capital coming in compared to the generation of capital previously that is now selling

819
01:07:48,538 --> 01:07:52,478
You're going to get this middle ground of adoption where people just don't really understand it.

820
01:07:52,538 --> 01:07:54,898
And there's not a ton of enough money coming in.

821
01:07:54,958 --> 01:07:59,038
And Bitcoin's big enough that if one rich guy figures it out, it doesn't move the price.

822
01:07:59,398 --> 01:08:05,078
But I mean, eventually, if Bitcoin's going to win, that period of time is going to end.

823
01:08:05,078 --> 01:08:10,778
and this end section is less about Bitcoin and more about fiat because, I mean, there's two sides

824
01:08:10,778 --> 01:08:20,458
of this graph. The y-axis is Bitcoin price and fiat. So I kind of expected this middle time

825
01:08:20,458 --> 01:08:24,818
that I'm talking about to be shorter, but zooming out, it's like, oh, of course, it's going to take

826
01:08:24,818 --> 01:08:30,098
a few cycles of not crazy returns. And maybe we get another one with not crazy returns. But

827
01:08:30,098 --> 01:08:35,798
um i feel like we're in this middle ground and if you zoom out like it's like dude why didn't you

828
01:08:35,798 --> 01:08:45,158
just zoom out um it was a great time to to uh to dca and consolidate or this consolidation is a

829
01:08:45,158 --> 01:08:50,378
great time to buy um because eventually you're gonna run out of time if bitcoin wins

830
01:08:50,378 --> 01:08:57,238
the funny thing is that it's like even when we talk about like oh maybe the returns won't be that

831
01:08:57,238 --> 01:09:03,698
great it's like yeah but those returns like even like the bad bitcoin returns still beat like

832
01:09:03,698 --> 01:09:09,258
basically everything else like unless you get in on one of the like yeah sure if you were buying a

833
01:09:09,258 --> 01:09:15,478
bunch of nvidia at the right time yeah you beat the pants off bitcoin right okay sure real quick

834
01:09:15,478 --> 01:09:20,738
counterpoint real quick because we always compare bitcoin to these these funds like we always

835
01:09:20,738 --> 01:09:26,318
compare it to the s&p 500 gold is kind of its own thing and that's i think that's a great comparison

836
01:09:26,318 --> 01:09:28,518
but we were always like,

837
01:09:28,598 --> 01:09:30,878
oh, but you could pick a stock and beat it.

838
01:09:30,958 --> 01:09:32,558
And it's like, okay, well, you picked Bitcoin.

839
01:09:33,458 --> 01:09:35,158
I had bought index funds

840
01:09:35,158 --> 01:09:38,398
because I knew I was like,

841
01:09:38,438 --> 01:09:40,078
I could probably figure out how to pick stocks,

842
01:09:40,198 --> 01:09:41,538
but it seems like a full-time job.

843
01:09:41,598 --> 01:09:42,518
I want to focus on my life.

844
01:09:42,558 --> 01:09:43,318
So I buy index funds.

845
01:09:43,858 --> 01:09:45,478
Found Bitcoin and that was the first thing

846
01:09:45,478 --> 01:09:46,778
that I was like, oh, this is something

847
01:09:46,778 --> 01:09:49,278
that I could go all in on and I get it.

848
01:09:49,858 --> 01:09:52,018
I could have spent that time finding NVIDIA.

849
01:09:52,018 --> 01:09:56,178
I could have spent that time finding Micron.

850
01:09:56,318 --> 01:10:00,298
Like there's plenty of opportunity out there and it's not just Bitcoin.

851
01:10:00,298 --> 01:10:05,958
Like you could spend the time that you spent on Bitcoin finding that other thing and it going up like crazy.

852
01:10:08,578 --> 01:10:13,398
I find that Bitcoin is enough of that thing that I'm cool with just that.

853
01:10:13,998 --> 01:10:18,578
But there's you could also sell and then go find that other thing.

854
01:10:18,658 --> 01:10:23,158
Like you could take more risk and you could find other things and going all in on Bitcoin, I think.

855
01:10:23,158 --> 01:10:34,418
is less than a what's an order of magnitude less risky than going all in on a stock that you really

856
01:10:34,418 --> 01:10:38,198
think is like the same opportunity as bitcoin because you really understand it you really

857
01:10:38,198 --> 01:10:46,078
understand the fundamentals and the people and like but once you find that thing you might as

858
01:10:46,078 --> 01:10:52,398
well go all in on it and ride that and not get distracted by other things unless you really have

859
01:10:52,398 --> 01:10:56,158
that bandwidth, but you're not going to be able to really focus on your craft in that time. So

860
01:10:56,158 --> 01:11:00,578
if you have a craft that you want to focus on and you find that thing that's going to go up like

861
01:11:00,578 --> 01:11:05,198
crazy, or you're really convicted on, find that thing, stick to it and just keep, keep living.

862
01:11:05,198 --> 01:11:12,958
But I think it's, I'm reacting more strongly than I think is, is worthwhile, but I just,

863
01:11:13,158 --> 01:11:19,998
in, in all these tenants of, um, oh, well, Bitcoin outperforms everything. It's just not true. And,

864
01:11:19,998 --> 01:11:24,538
in the yeah in the recent history and that's just one of those things that's been carried across

865
01:11:24,538 --> 01:11:30,178
from the previous generations of bitcoiners the previous cycles of bitcoiners and it's

866
01:11:30,178 --> 01:11:35,858
not been true for us and maybe it will be true in the future but i think if you're being

867
01:11:35,858 --> 01:11:44,358
correct about it we found bitcoin we went all in on one thing if you found nvidia if you found

868
01:11:44,358 --> 01:11:50,618
Micron, plenty of other things and went all in on those, you'd be in a similar position. And so

869
01:11:50,618 --> 01:11:56,538
I don't think it's apples and oranges to compare that. I think it's more apples and oranges to

870
01:11:56,538 --> 01:12:03,578
compare Bitcoin and S&P 500 because you have to do the work to find Bitcoin and be confident going

871
01:12:03,578 --> 01:12:08,798
all in. And we've already done that. So it's like, okay, cool. Yeah, now I know. But it's the same

872
01:12:08,798 --> 01:12:13,218
amount of work to find whatever thing you're going to go all in on. And ultimately, I think the

873
01:12:13,218 --> 01:12:19,258
other education you get with Bitcoin is going to help you be better in a lot of other ways and have

874
01:12:19,258 --> 01:12:23,678
something that you don't necessarily want to trade in and out of because it can actually have a

875
01:12:24,678 --> 01:12:31,118
user base of 8 billion people. So I agree with you that Bitcoin, I think, is the best asset,

876
01:12:31,118 --> 01:12:36,098
and that's why I'm here. But if you're looking for returns, I think it's not necessarily that

877
01:12:36,098 --> 01:12:40,698
much work in hindsight, comparative to understanding Bitcoin as it would have been to find something

878
01:12:40,698 --> 01:12:44,538
I'm 100% in agreement on that.

879
01:12:44,538 --> 01:12:49,078
My point was more so it's like, you know, like what level of returns are you going to

880
01:12:49,078 --> 01:13:04,415
be satisfied with Because my point is kind of like you can always find something that will have like like you can find an outlier case where you were able to outperform bitcoin and you can find several outlier cases where you know but again nvidia and micron are two great examples over a

881
01:13:04,415 --> 01:13:09,455
specific time frame right but then it's like and the larger point here that i was i was kind of

882
01:13:09,455 --> 01:13:16,895
getting to is this idea of like okay well what uh what level of like return will you be satisfied

883
01:13:16,895 --> 01:13:24,615
with because i'm just like back of the you know back of the napkin uh we did the what like an 8x

884
01:13:24,615 --> 01:13:33,515
from the bear market bottom to 120 so it was like you know 16 to 126 or 125k whatever like roughly

885
01:13:33,515 --> 01:13:41,175
in a little less than an 8x right and so you take that and let's say you apply that to what this

886
01:13:41,175 --> 01:13:46,955
current bear market bottom, which is 58K. Well, you're like round about 450K there. So it's like,

887
01:13:47,055 --> 01:13:51,235
you know, are you going to be, if we perform the exact same as this last quote disappointing

888
01:13:51,235 --> 01:13:57,335
cycle, are you okay with 450K? Like, I'm good with that. That's sure. You know, like, that's

889
01:13:57,335 --> 01:14:01,035
good. Like it's, it's all set perspective. Even if it only does half that, it's like, okay, I guess,

890
01:14:01,115 --> 01:14:08,275
you know, we're only, we only pumped to, you know, to, to 225, 250K this round. Like it was pretty

891
01:14:08,275 --> 01:14:14,135
disappointing like you know like it's interesting how perspective gets shifted around these things

892
01:14:14,135 --> 01:14:20,295
and meanwhile it's like yeah you could put in the the many hours to find that next uh find the next

893
01:14:20,295 --> 01:14:26,475
nvidia right or to you know find the next whatever it might be but i think you made a really great

894
01:14:26,475 --> 01:14:32,975
point which is this idea that when you study bitcoin you do get a better and for better or

895
01:14:32,975 --> 01:14:36,715
worse sometimes it's like man i fuck i wish i didn't know half the shit that i know you know

896
01:14:36,715 --> 01:14:40,855
I wish I could take some of that and erase it out of my brain, but it's in there now.

897
01:14:40,915 --> 01:14:41,695
It's not going away.

898
01:14:42,115 --> 01:14:46,455
But you do get this more kind of holistic view versus just being a stock picker.

899
01:14:46,555 --> 01:14:49,435
It's like, no, you're not a, you know, a stock picker.

900
01:14:49,515 --> 01:14:53,895
You're a money understander or you're trying to be, you know, so I think that has its own

901
01:14:53,895 --> 01:14:58,275
benefits and, you know, its own pains because then you realize just how fucked up everything

902
01:14:58,275 --> 01:14:59,635
is, but that's a different story.

903
01:14:59,775 --> 01:15:03,015
But yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm with you on this.

904
01:15:03,075 --> 01:15:04,815
It's a, it is a good point that, okay.

905
01:15:04,815 --> 01:15:08,915
yeah you could you could have put the if you put all the hours you put into bitcoin into researching

906
01:15:08,915 --> 01:15:13,895
stocks like yeah fucked it i'm sure you could pick some you know and probably also miss on some

907
01:15:13,895 --> 01:15:20,435
probably miss on a lot like and there is some for me at least i do have some some sense of kind of

908
01:15:20,435 --> 01:15:27,995
zen in the fact that i know how much time i put into bitcoin and all my thoughts assumptions ideas

909
01:15:27,995 --> 01:15:34,595
could be wrong could be i don't think they are but they could be but i'm a lot more confident

910
01:15:34,595 --> 01:15:42,835
in that than i would be in any set of assumptions around a company that is run by people you know

911
01:15:42,835 --> 01:15:46,615
what i mean that that's the fundamental differentiator for me it's like there's actually

912
01:15:46,615 --> 01:15:53,355
far less kind of variables that are outside the scope of my uh not out of my control but outside

913
01:15:53,355 --> 01:15:57,915
the scope of my knowledge. So it's like, yeah, I'm just, you know, I'm not a, I'm not a trader.

914
01:15:58,055 --> 01:16:04,655
I'm not a fancy chart guy. So I'm just going to keep buying Bitcoin every hour of every day and,

915
01:16:04,695 --> 01:16:09,555
and see what happens. In the meantime, try to create some value and start another podcast and

916
01:16:09,555 --> 01:16:14,375
then another podcast and then another podcast. And you know, that's just, uh, that's just the

917
01:16:14,375 --> 01:16:19,535
way it's going to go. But I'm glad you're back on the podcast circuit now, by the way, it's glad we

918
01:16:19,535 --> 01:16:22,635
had you on here. This was, this was good. You're my first in a couple of weeks. Cause I've been

919
01:16:22,635 --> 01:16:31,635
in a in dad newborn dad life uh again so i was i was glad to have you on man yeah of course man um

920
01:16:32,155 --> 01:16:39,735
let me just say one thing before i end on like oh well you could have bought other stocks and

921
01:16:39,735 --> 01:16:44,655
done better uh i don't want that to be my final word necessarily yeah me neither me neither i kind

922
01:16:44,655 --> 01:16:54,015
to say that from the perspective of Bitcoin has changed my life in every single way except for

923
01:16:54,015 --> 01:17:00,175
financial freedom or the amount like a financial success I guess I think it will in the future

924
01:17:00,175 --> 01:17:06,735
but I mean I have I have freedom I made my health better I found an awesome girlfriend

925
01:17:06,735 --> 01:17:12,395
built my house built a business like have freedom to do whatever I want on the internet

926
01:17:12,395 --> 01:17:19,895
um all while some maturing some starting a business it it creates that confidence in yourself

927
01:17:19,895 --> 01:17:24,995
but like it's all I built I changed my life completely from when I found Bitcoin and it's

928
01:17:24,995 --> 01:17:31,535
it's brought a ton of success and happiness into my life it's just I think ironic and maybe you know

929
01:17:31,535 --> 01:17:36,455
at the bottom of a bear and Michael Sullivan could read my tweets and put me in a box as far as my

930
01:17:36,455 --> 01:17:40,235
sentiment goes, because I definitely am one of the average Bitcoiners in that sense.

931
01:17:41,315 --> 01:17:47,675
It hasn't done, ironically, Bitcoin has not done the one thing that I got into it for,

932
01:17:47,775 --> 01:17:51,835
or I was promised from other people, which, you know, empty doesn't mean anything,

933
01:17:52,175 --> 01:17:59,095
but that was promised it would do. And I don't know, I find it ironic and I'm incredibly thankful

934
01:17:59,095 --> 01:18:12,691
and still optimistic in the future of that sense But ultimately if I went through this chapter of my life and just learned all the things I learned and didn get the financial success from Bitcoin it would absolutely be a successful period of life

935
01:18:14,731 --> 01:18:15,531
That's a.

936
01:18:16,571 --> 01:18:18,891
Man, that one that one hits that one hits pretty hard.

937
01:18:20,131 --> 01:18:23,991
You might have tweeted something similar to that once.

938
01:18:24,091 --> 01:18:32,451
This is like it's done like so much, but just not the thing that I actually kind of like got into it for, you know, like that's.

939
01:18:32,471 --> 01:18:39,271
I think a lot of Bitcoiners who are more recent Bitcoiners like us feel that same way.

940
01:18:40,151 --> 01:18:44,231
Like, and you know, like it's, it's given you this freedom and it's given you so many

941
01:18:44,231 --> 01:18:47,651
different things and like different friends that you never would have met and like, you

942
01:18:47,651 --> 01:18:49,671
know, what will become lifelong friendships.

943
01:18:49,671 --> 01:18:54,811
And like, you know, now I know my winemaker, you know, like, like who could have dreamt

944
01:18:54,811 --> 01:18:55,271
it, you know?

945
01:18:55,271 --> 01:18:57,411
but then it's like

946
01:18:57,411 --> 01:18:59,611
you know it hasn't

947
01:18:59,611 --> 01:19:01,591
hasn't made you go

948
01:19:01,591 --> 01:19:03,391
you know fuck off and buy an island

949
01:19:03,391 --> 01:19:05,351
wealthy you know what I mean like

950
01:19:05,351 --> 01:19:07,411
yet yet

951
01:19:07,411 --> 01:19:09,751
but I think that that's a good

952
01:19:09,751 --> 01:19:11,351
thing for people to chew on it's like

953
01:19:11,351 --> 01:19:13,731
at the end of the

954
01:19:13,731 --> 01:19:15,631
day it's like I think that

955
01:19:15,631 --> 01:19:17,071
it will provide

956
01:19:17,071 --> 01:19:18,711
that other side

957
01:19:18,711 --> 01:19:21,551
that you know that you were promised

958
01:19:21,551 --> 01:19:23,591
Ben that you know the Valhalla that we've

959
01:19:23,591 --> 01:19:24,271
all been promised

960
01:19:24,271 --> 01:19:29,811
but it's like you know right now is the is the time for building it's the time in the trenches

961
01:19:29,811 --> 01:19:35,671
and the nice thing is like i think especially as a winemaker like boy you've got a different

962
01:19:35,671 --> 01:19:41,651
perspective on low time preference as well like you literally have to have to wait for years

963
01:19:41,651 --> 01:19:46,491
like it's a you know you're used to waiting cycles for things um so what's a couple more

964
01:19:46,491 --> 01:19:52,031
what's a couple more and speaking of waiting for things if people don't want to wait for things

965
01:19:52,031 --> 01:19:54,671
And they're like, I'm so thirsty after this conversation.

966
01:19:54,911 --> 01:20:00,811
I want to get myself some Peony Lane wine from Ben Justman because fuck bears.

967
01:20:02,191 --> 01:20:04,071
Where can they go to find it?

968
01:20:05,511 --> 01:20:07,591
Well, I should buy fuckbears.com.

969
01:20:07,911 --> 01:20:11,991
But you can order my wine basically all over the U.S.

970
01:20:12,011 --> 01:20:13,451
There's a couple of states that have issues.

971
01:20:13,451 --> 01:20:17,531
But for the most part, everyone can order at peonylanewine.com.

972
01:20:17,711 --> 01:20:21,591
P-E-O-N-Y lane.com.

973
01:20:21,591 --> 01:20:30,191
And you could find me on Twitter, Nostar, basically any social media as at Ben Justman or at Peony Lane.

974
01:20:30,531 --> 01:20:32,551
And if you have any questions about it, happy to answer.

975
01:20:32,691 --> 01:20:35,631
Happy to get you the right wine for your tastes.

976
01:20:36,251 --> 01:20:40,351
And yeah, it's a wild ride, but I'm happy to be on it.

977
01:20:42,011 --> 01:20:43,231
Well, happy to be on it with you, brother.

978
01:20:43,611 --> 01:20:45,511
And again, thank you for doing what you do.

979
01:20:45,891 --> 01:20:50,791
And do you have any of the estate Pinot Noir available right now?

980
01:20:50,791 --> 01:20:52,611
I know that one, it goes like hotcakes.

981
01:20:53,091 --> 01:20:53,151
Yeah.

982
01:20:53,271 --> 01:20:58,971
So that one, I finally got a huge crop up and I also got a really great crop up.

983
01:20:59,071 --> 01:21:03,031
So not only is it my best and favorite wine and what I'm building my brand on, but I also

984
01:21:03,031 --> 01:21:04,051
have a lot of it right now.

985
01:21:04,231 --> 01:21:10,151
So, um, I have some 2024 and some 2025 actually.

986
01:21:10,311 --> 01:21:10,551
Yeah.

987
01:21:10,611 --> 01:21:12,691
And then, uh, I won't have any 2026.

988
01:21:13,091 --> 01:21:18,611
So I have, like I said, some stock, but, um, also have FOMO and buy it now.

989
01:21:18,971 --> 01:21:20,411
Buy it right now.

990
01:21:20,411 --> 01:21:21,651
Bitcoin is scarce.

991
01:21:21,971 --> 01:21:24,751
Bitcoin wine is also scarce.

992
01:21:25,491 --> 01:21:26,531
Well, dude, appreciate you.

993
01:21:26,591 --> 01:21:29,651
Everybody should go peonylanewine.com.

994
01:21:29,731 --> 01:21:31,331
Go follow Ben and Peony Lane.

995
01:21:31,511 --> 01:21:33,431
You do a great mimetic game as well.

996
01:21:33,571 --> 01:21:36,051
So you're not just following any brand account.

997
01:21:36,291 --> 01:21:37,731
It's a pretty darn good one.

998
01:21:38,291 --> 01:21:39,371
Always good memes.

999
01:21:39,571 --> 01:21:40,311
Always good times.

1000
01:21:40,491 --> 01:21:41,671
Always good wine.

1001
01:21:42,451 --> 01:21:43,031
Peony Lane.

1002
01:21:43,651 --> 01:21:48,131
But seriously, brother, stoked that we got a chance to catch up a little bit.

1003
01:21:48,131 --> 01:21:49,551
I'm sorry about the fucking bears.

1004
01:21:49,551 --> 01:21:54,551
next year I'll camp out with you we can we'll shoot some bears together it'll make for great

1005
01:21:54,551 --> 01:22:00,071
content that'll probably get blood thrown on us by PETA or something I don't know but I'm here for

1006
01:22:00,071 --> 01:22:05,491
it uh and appreciate you and appreciate you you walking the walk and not just talking the talk

1007
01:22:05,491 --> 01:22:10,231
as well uh we need more of that so people go do whatever you want with your money but

1008
01:22:10,231 --> 01:22:15,691
personally I recommend spending some bitcoin and replacing it immediately it's okay to get

1009
01:22:15,691 --> 01:22:16,571
some Peenie Lane wine.

1010
01:22:17,131 --> 01:22:17,571
Do it.

1011
01:22:17,691 --> 01:22:18,311
Do it now.

1012
01:22:18,491 --> 01:22:19,651
While supplies last.

1013
01:22:20,271 --> 01:22:21,031
Appreciate you, Ben.

1014
01:22:21,091 --> 01:22:21,751
And thank you to everybody

1015
01:22:21,751 --> 01:22:22,211
who tuned in.

1016
01:22:22,291 --> 01:22:23,751
Sorry about the Noster being fucked.

1017
01:22:24,271 --> 01:22:25,351
But thanks for everybody

1018
01:22:25,351 --> 01:22:26,231
who joined in on X.

1019
01:22:26,731 --> 01:22:27,631
Well, this will drop

1020
01:22:27,631 --> 01:22:28,391
everywhere else later.

1021
01:22:28,831 --> 01:22:29,851
So cheers, man.

1022
01:22:30,751 --> 01:22:31,311
Thanks, Mark.

1023
01:22:35,891 --> 01:22:37,311
And that's a wrap

1024
01:22:37,311 --> 01:22:39,011
on this Bitcoin Talk episode

1025
01:22:39,011 --> 01:22:40,631
of The Bitcoin Podcast.

1026
01:22:41,291 --> 01:22:42,551
Remember to subscribe

1027
01:22:42,551 --> 01:22:43,651
to this podcast

1028
01:22:43,651 --> 01:22:44,551
wherever you're watching

1029
01:22:44,551 --> 01:22:45,251
or listening.

1030
01:22:45,691 --> 01:22:49,551
And share it with your friends, family, and strangers on the internet.

1031
01:22:49,551 --> 01:22:56,251
Find me on Noster at primal.net slash walker and this podcast at primal.net slash titcoin.

1032
01:22:56,771 --> 01:23:00,111
On X, YouTube, and Rumble, just search at Walker America.

1033
01:23:00,711 --> 01:23:04,971
And find this podcast on X and Instagram at titcoinpodcast.

1034
01:23:05,151 --> 01:23:07,651
Head to the show notes to grab sponsor links.

1035
01:23:07,751 --> 01:23:12,451
Head to substack.com slash at walkeramerica to get episodes emailed to you.

1036
01:23:12,451 --> 01:23:16,251
and head to BitcoinPodcast.net for everything else.

1037
01:23:16,791 --> 01:23:19,931
Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are

1038
01:23:19,967 --> 01:23:25,647
So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to The Bitcoin Podcast.

1039
01:23:26,547 --> 01:23:28,987
Until next time, stay free.