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We are in a have-yacht and have-not economy right now.

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And it's getting worse.

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And it's all based upon this fiat system that's not tied to anything anymore.

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We are going to have some, I think, really difficult secular inflation going on

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where you are going to be exposed in certain areas like child care, health care, car insurance,

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all of these different things that are going to make your life very difficult going forward.

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What Bitcoin can give you, that hope, is that you can finally find something that you can store your value in and rest and be at peace.

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We've been a deficit nation for decades now, and it's coming home to roost.

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This is going to be a difficult time.

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You've got to find things that this government and the rest of the governments here cannot fucking print, and they cannot print Bitcoin.

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Let's just start from this principle.

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If Bitcoin has returned 55% CAGR, you know, annual growth rate for the last five years, what the fuck more do you need than that?

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You've got to find things right now. It's critical. I mean, this is a critical moment in your world over the next three to five years.

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You've got to find things that you can store value in.

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Bitcoin is electronic digital cash moving at the speed of fucking light and it settles forever.

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The world just hasn't figured out. That's another reason why we're early. The world doesn't understand anything I'm talking about right now. TradFi, they're clueless. You talk to these central banks, they would just stare at you. There's nothing going on behind their eyeballs when you talk about Bitcoin. So we are early. Bitcoin is the wild, wild west.

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You get into this market and you start trading and using margin and stuff, you're going to have a comeuppance.

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You'll have a come to Jesus moment at some point because Bitcoin is unlike other assets.

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We have never had a truly finite, provably finite asset.

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I can prove to you there are 21 million coins.

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That's written in the protocol.

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That is part of the Bitcoin protocol.

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I cannot tell you how important it is for people to start thinking about self-custody and getting their own Bitcoin,

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getting it off exchanges, holding it yourself, becoming a sovereign individual, memorizing 12 words.

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And when the world goes to shit, you can just, you know, go across any border, take all your wealth with you.

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I don't care what they do at the border, strip searches, stick stuff up your ass.

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It doesn't matter. You're going to come across on the other side.

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You're going to have all your wealth intact. You will be a sovereign individual.

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But to do that, you've got to have self-custody.

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And the more people that do self-custody, the less chance we have of this capture, regulatory guardrails, paper Bitcoin, seizure.

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Everything you can imagine can be fixed if people will just self-custody as quickly as they can.

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Bitcoin is still one Bitcoin. And if you're listening to this right now, remember, you are

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still early. If you're not already, go ahead and subscribe to this show wherever you're watching or

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listening and share it with your friends, family and strangers on the internet. If you want to

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follow me in the show on Noster and X, just head to the show notes to grab the links. If you're

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enjoying the Bitcoin podcast and want to support it by becoming a paid subscriber, you can download

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the Fountain app, search for The Bitcoin Podcast, and subscribe by paying with Bitcoin via Lightning

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or fiat via card. You'll get access to ad-free episodes and early releases of select content,

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plus you'll help support this show. Head to the show notes for product discount links,

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go to walkeramerica.substack.com to get episodes emailed to you, and head to

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bitcoinpodcast.net for everything else. Without further ado, let's get into this Bitcoin talk.

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George, welcome back on the show.

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We always have a great time when we're together in person or together on this show.

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This is your second time back here.

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It's great to see you again, man.

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Great to see the studio.

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You were just talking about the painting behind you, and you'd just done that in Prague.

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You want to talk about that a little bit?

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Because it's a beauty.

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I saw your post of it, and I was like, wow, that's amazing work.

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Yeah, thank you.

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I appreciate that.

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Yeah, it's good to see you again, too.

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And like I said, I'm ready to let this fucker rip.

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Let's go.

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You know, I just got back from Prague, and Prague was kind of a changing event for me.

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I'm not the same person after I went to Prague.

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You know, it was a no-shit-coiner conference.

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Nobody else was allowed in there.

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You know, nobody.

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There were no politicians, no jackasses there, you know, making fools or promises or whatever the hell they do.

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And so it was just Bitcoiners.

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And, you know, it was nice.

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I could just walk around and talk to Bitcoiners and have a beer with them.

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And, you know, I like to listen to people, hear their stories.

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And it was just really cool.

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And then I hired a model, a Swedish model from the conference there.

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And she and I went around Prague and did some different photo shoots and stuff.

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And I got quite a bit of material.

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I'm trying to come up with some paintings.

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And this one here behind me is one of the latest ones of her inside of a tower.

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There was a really neat tower that was near my hotel.

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It's a great city. If you haven't been to Prague, I just can't say enough about it.

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And, you know, the best thing is their beer just rocks.

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I think they actually put you in jail if you pour a bad beer or something.

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Their beer is outstanding. And it is it's such a cool city.

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I mean, there's so much history there. It's a very based vibe in the city.

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The conference to Carl and I went to the first BDC Prague that they did, which was fantastic.

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That was actually Carla was was very early in her pregnancy at the time.

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I mean, we weren't telling anyone even at that point.

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But we had just such an outstanding time.

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They do a wonderful job with the conference itself.

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The city is great.

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And it is extreme.

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I mean, it is a Bitcoin-only conference for sure.

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And you can really feel that.

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Well, you know, Bitcoiners, we're going to have to get used to this.

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I mean, we're going to have to start hanging out with each other, just Bitcoiners.

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And the reason is because, first off, I don't think – I think we're going to turn around one of these days and we'll see that Bitcoin's up there at a million dollars a coin.

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And it's still going to be basically just a few of us psychopaths out there because I don't think adoption is going to take off, at least as real Bitcoiners, meaning holding Bitcoin in cold storage, understanding what Bitcoin is, the power of Bitcoin, sovereignty.

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These people just aren't going to get it that are holding ETFs or even in the BT.

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We'll call them from now on, we'll just say treasury companies, but meaning Bitcoin treasury companies.

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These people aren't going to be with us.

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And, you know, if you look at River and you look at the numbers that they project for adoption, you know, they just came out with a new report.

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I was reviewing it today. I'm constantly studying.

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And it's I think that they're pretty accurate there as far as the actual number of users.

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Some of these numbers that are floated out there include crypto and other shit coins.

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But just real Bitcoiners like you see at a conference there.

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I mean, I don't think there's probably more than just a few million of them right now across the planet.

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And I don't know if that's going to change much.

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You know, it went past $100,000 a coin, and what happened?

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Really nothing.

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Retail didn't show up in FOMO.

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The only thing I will say that has been a narrative that could push back against what I'm saying is the initial launch of the ETFs.

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Yes, primarily that was 80% retail and high net worth individuals that came into that system.

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Obviously, there is pent-up demand for Bitcoin.

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But they're seeking rails that are not the usual rails that Bitcoiners use.

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You go over to someplace like Prague or another conference with no politicians, no jackass shitcoiners or former shitcoiners on stage or no gold bugs, you know, or got gold stuck up their ass somewhere.

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Those people, those people are the people that you can talk to in a Bitcoin conference.

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And I don't like to I know I'm going to yak a lot today.

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But when I'm at a conference, I like to listen.

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I like to just talk to people and hear their story, hear what they got to tell me.

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And you can learn a lot.

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Amen to that.

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You know, that's what's the old cliche.

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It's why we have two ears and one mouth, right?

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I love that.

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That's my saying.

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Exactly.

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That's what God gave it for.

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You know, it's shut up and listen.

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Exactly.

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Which is not always easy for us Bitcoiners, especially us Bitcoin podcasters.

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Although, you know, I think that as a Bitcoin podcaster, you hope you should be getting better at practicing listening more than you speak.

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That's the goal, at least.

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You know, don't drown out your guests too much, but sometimes you just can't help it.

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But, you know, I think I think you're right.

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And honestly, I in terms of whatever we want to call real Bitcoiners, because you could.

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OK, you know, fairly subjective in terms of how you flavor that.

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Right. Is it just someone who holds Bitcoin in self-custody and cold storage?

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Do they have to have a certain ethos about them?

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Or is it just they use Bitcoin as savings?

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They have it in cold storage.

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That's that's enough.

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I think the numbers like it is very small, very small.

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And I also am inclined to agree with you.

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The whole world is not going to self-custody.

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It's just not going to happen.

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I think the majority of people, Bitcoin will be the water in which they swim.

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They're going to be fish.

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They're going to be swimming in water.

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And they're not going to notice that they're using Bitcoin, right?

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It's just how it's going to be the money or at least the reserve money.

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And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

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But I also would say that if you are, if you're like, this is why I start out every show saying, you know, if you're, if you're listening to this right now, you're still early.

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You're still early because we, we are so insanely at just the very first inning, not even the first inning.

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We're still warming up, right?

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We're still just, just, we just got out of the dugout to continue the baseball analogy.

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You know, we're, we're, we're just lacing up our cleats here.

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I'm barely getting started.

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There's a chart.

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I'm sure you know it.

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It's the very famous one that Jesse Myers put out, Croceus, BTC.

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Yes.

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The awesome chart's been reused by Michael Saylor by tons of people because it's just, it's so visually perfect, right? And it just shows total global asset value. And it shows Bitcoin at $2 trillion, but there's $1,000 trillion worth of global assets. We're at 0.2%. How could we not be early, right? That's just plain and simple in your face.

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but something you and I were talking about before this is like, yeah, we're still early,

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but Bitcoin can move really violently, really quickly.

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The suddenly part is very sudden, and it behooves you to start stacking as soon as you can.

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I'm sure we, I think just about everyone, and correct me if I'm wrong for you,

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but at least for me, I had to hear about Bitcoin a couple of times over multiple years. To my shame,

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it took me six years from first hearing about Bitcoin to actually buying Bitcoin, over six

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years. I mean, that's going to be embarrassed when I tell my grandkids that, when they're like,

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what are you, fucking stupid, grandpa? Why did it take you so long? Wasn't it obvious?

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And that's the thing. It's not obvious for a lot of people. Maybe you got it right away when you

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first heard about it and go, I'd love to actually know that. I'm not sure if I know that part of

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your story. Like, when did you when did it snap for you? Now, I'm a village idiot. I mean, there's

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no way I had Bitcoin. I had shoved in my face a couple of times. I just I thought it was the

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stupidest thing ever. You know, it takes a while and it takes there. You've got a couple of, you

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know, there's some barriers and one of those age. You look at me right now, if you're watching this,

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you know that I'm older and that that's a real handicap to try and get into Bitcoin.

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You mentioned about self-custody. Yeah, it's going to be difficult to greet grandpa and grandpa or to get your uncle that's at the Thanksgiving table to understand Bitcoin and be able to hold storage, put it in custody.

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It's tough. It's really difficult for a lot of people, and it is scary to do it.

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But the idea that we're early, yeah, absolutely, even though – you know, this is a good time.

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Let's talk about something else you mentioned there.

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Let's talk about getting into Bitcoin. For instance, I was very fortunate because when I did understand Bitcoin, it was right about the time that Michael Saylor did.

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When I understood Bitcoin, I got it. I got the bug really bad.

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And I tried to DCA, tried to get into Bitcoin.

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And then the next thing you know, I'd wake up the next day and I'd start reading more about Bitcoin and I'd want more Bitcoin.

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So then I'd buy a bunch more and then I'd buy a bunch more.

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And then like a week, you know, I was running out of money. And then I then I started liquidating things. I liquidated all my gold holdings, put it into Bitcoin. I liquidated my 401. I put everything. I just kept buying almost like smash. That is what I'm like a drunken sailor. Not not say why I am a drunken sailor. You know, my history. I was a Navy pilot, fighter pilot. And so, yeah, I'm a drunken sailor like smash buying Bitcoin.

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And I will tell you something. I've always felt that that is the key, that if you could become convicted enough that you actually just put all your money in Bitcoin, you would outperform anyone else.

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And you do. And it's proven. There was one study years ago that came out that verified how I felt about it.

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But another one just came out by Theo Maginay, and he put out some really good research.

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It took like a million different portfolios and ran them through both DCA and smash buyers, drunken sailors like myself.

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The drunken sailor return for that period of time was a 10-year period.

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It was around 1,300 percent.

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For DCA average, it was around 3 to 400 percent.

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So I've known this for some time, but yet I've often told people to use DCA to get in, dollar cost averaging to get into Bitcoin.

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Now, why would I do that? It's not because I mean, not because I don't want you to get all the different returns.

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And it almost seemed again, it's not like I'm lying to people.

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But here's the problem is that, you know, just like sailor, probably.

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I'm sure that there were many a night where he laid in his mansion there and kind of stared at the ceiling like I did at three o'clock in the morning, wondering what the fuck have I done?

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I've lost 80 percent of my wealth.

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You know, I'm down in the toilet. My wife's sleeping very, very gently next to me. And I'm

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thinking, God, I hope she never understands the level of anxiety I have here. And this was somebody

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who was pretty convicted. And I got more and more convicted. I just kept studying, reading.

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And since then, I've had other opportunities where I've had some money. And what do I do? I just,

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I just buy. I don't even think about trying to time. I just buy. And so the other thing I mentioned,

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And this is really important, too. We often use that expression. And so, OK, so let me get back before I leave the subject. Why don't I tell people DCA? OK, because I'm afraid that they're going to take these little nibbles and they're going to be able to weather the volatility.

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But if they smash by like a drunken sailor and they're sitting there or laying in bed at three o'clock in the morning, they're going to lose conviction.

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And at the worst opportune moment, they will sell. And when they do, they probably will never come back.

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And if they've, you know, if I had been telling people, hey, just go out there like a drunken sailor, go have a beer, get on the computer and buy everything you can.

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Well, guess what? You know, they would have a pretty bad memory of me as the years went past.

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And what we do here does echo into eternity.

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So the things that you're doing now are really important.

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You've got to be careful what you say.

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So I thought DCA is a better policy to tell people because they can weather the volatility, get through it, not sell it.

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Now, the other thing I was going to say, here's another thing.

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So obviously, by putting myself in with a smash buy by somebody who's doing DCA, I also made sure that I was in the market.

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And you've got to do that.

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Every year, you've got about between five to 20 days every year that you cannot miss if you want to get your returns maximized in Bitcoin.

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You've got to be there. You've got to be in the market.

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And so I cannot tell you how important it is to stack like a smart psychopath, hodl onto that Bitcoin.

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No trading, no margin. And this is not the time to be fucking around with Bitcoin.

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You do not want to be trading Bitcoin right now.

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You know, we got these people that are all they've got their panties in a wad over these 20 percent dips or some other shit.

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And you're wondering, you know, it's a good thing you're not smash buying because you couldn't handle it if it really went down 40, 50 percent.

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What do people that do that are really convicted when they're DCing into Bitcoin and you see a 40, 50 percent drop?

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You buy like a son of a bitch.

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So anyway, those are just some thoughts that I've got on, you know, getting in the market, volatility, how you buy Bitcoin, depending upon your level of conviction, and then not timing the market. Just get in the damn market and be patient.

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I think that conviction piece you mentioned is so important because you're absolutely right.

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For most people, and this is why I too recommend for anyone who asks me, I say you should DCA.

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And that is what I do as well for the most part.

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I also do smash buys when I have more cash, but I don't have just piles of cash sitting around.

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I don't either.

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It's all gone.

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Exactly.

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Usually my bank account has very little fiat.

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It would probably have hardly any fiat in it at all if my wife wasn't a little bit more responsible than I am sometimes with our fiat expenses because she's like, listen, we still got to pay some bills in fiat here, Walker.

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I'm like, okay, well, smash buy.

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But that is the important piece is once you have the conviction, once you know that you can weather that drawdown and look at that drawdown as an opportunity to stack more instead of the end of the world, I better sell because you will sell at the bottom.

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that's that's the that's the weird psychological trick about markets it's like you will sell right

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as it's hitting the bottom and it's going to bounce up right in your face and and then you like you

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said you will end up feeling burned feeling like you you got scammed somehow by bitcoin and these

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bitcoiners because you you bought the top you sold the bottom you're but the thing is if you're just

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if you have the conviction you hold on to it and you buy that bottom you you know sell all your

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chairs and maybe a kidney, but I keep mine just because I feel like I need them. Maybe that

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changes if we take a big nosedive here, who knows. But if you have that conviction, you're going to

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be okay. You're not going to get burned because if you have a low time preference and you look out

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over the neck, okay, it's okay. Yeah, it's down now. I'm going to buy some more. I'm going to

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lower my cost basis. And I know that I'm holding this for a very long time. So okay, not a big deal.

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If you don't have that conviction, if you haven't gone down the rabbit hole deep enough, you are

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going to get hurt. And again, you're going to buy the top and you're going to sell the bottom.

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And you might do that again in the next cycle. So that's why DCA is just, look, you can set it and

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forget it. And it, it is going to still output DC into Bitcoin. We'll still outperform every other

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investment strategy that's out there for non Bitcoin assets. You know what I mean? So yeah,

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you're, you're going to be fine, but man, it's, it's, it's hard to recommend folks. Like I can,

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if I tell them, listen, you should do everything you can to smash buy as much Bitcoin as you can

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right now, because I honestly believe that that is the best move. If it dips and they don't have

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the conviction that I do because they just bought Bitcoin because they listened to me

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or they listened to some other, you know, influencer or their favorite politician started

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getting into Bitcoins, they're into it now. And then it dips. There's a good chance they're going

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to sell and think, well, it's going to keep dipping and I'll buy back lower. But again,

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the moment you sell is the moment that trend reverses. And then you feel like an idiot and

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you feel burned. Hello friends. You may notice that there are no sponsors for this episode and

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that is because this is a pure value for value episode. So if you find this episode valuable,

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consider giving value back. You can do that by becoming a paid subscriber on Fountain. You can

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00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:18,500
send me a zap on Noster, a boost on Fountain, or if you don't feel like doing any of those,

259
00:20:18,580 --> 00:20:23,700
one thing you can do that is totally free is just to share this show with your friends, family,

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00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:26,500
and strangers on the internet so that it reaches more people.

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If you are listening on a podcasting app like Apple Podcast,

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you can also give this a five-star rating so more people find the show.

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You can subscribe on YouTube, Rumble, or wherever else you're watching.

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00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,060
But again, I always recommend that Bitcoiners check out Fountain.

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You can also go check out the big print audiobook which I narrated.

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You also, of course, do not have to do any of those things.

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Bitcoin does not care, but I sure do appreciate all of your support.

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So thank you.

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a terrible title, by the way. It's almost difficult to pronounce it, but you can find it on Amazon.

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And it is an incredible story. Although it's fictionalized, it's really a story about a

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particular trader and the ability to time, move, how they viewed markets in those days. And it was

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kind of the wild, wild west of markets. Well, guess what? Bitcoin is the wild, wild west.

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If you get into this market and you start trading and using margin and stuff, you're going to have

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a comeuppance. You'll have a come to Jesus moment at some point because Bitcoin is unlike other

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assets. We have never had a truly finite, provably finite asset. I can prove to you there are 21

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million coins. That's written in the protocol. That is part of the Bitcoin protocol. The protocol

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itself defines things like how many coins, difficulty adjustment, things of that nature.

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I can prove it.

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I can show it to you.

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And nobody's dealt with that.

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You know, we have a discussion going on often around paper Bitcoin.

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And, you know, I will tell you right now, kids, if you're listening to me, paper Bitcoin is not an issue for Bitcoin right now.

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If you think that the ETFs are not holding physical Bitcoin, that they don't settle within 90 minutes at the market close every weekday, you're just not thinking this through and you've not read enough.

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Nobody, no company.

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I don't give a shit if it's Fidelity, Coinbase.

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No company is going to or BlackRock, none of them are going to take a chance to commit not just criminal activity, but serious enough that people are going to go to prison as felonies.

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Nobody's going to do that. It's not necessary. They're making all the money they could want right now.

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I mean, they made so many so much money in fees. BlackRock, it's incredible.

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There's no need for that. And then if you think about the Bitcoin treasury companies now, now amplify that three times because now you've got the SEC.

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You've got other people up their ass. You've got auditors. You've got accountants. Nobody's going to lie, cheat, steal here. Now, why do you think FTX was offshore? Why do you think some of these other entities were operating offshore? Well, so if you're thinking about paper Bitcoin, what you need to do is to look at the derivative markets.

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OK, you can see or make a case for Bitcoin, paper Bitcoin and derivatives.

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I personally don't think, you know, from the research that I've done, I don't think it's more than 1%, maybe 2% of the market on a daily basis like in float.

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But, you know, getting back, the reason I'm talking about all this is because Bitcoin's different.

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Bitcoin can be settled.

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Bitcoin can be immediately, provably removed from circulation.

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And it is all the time.

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I cannot tell you how important it is for people to start thinking about self-custody and getting their own Bitcoin, getting it off exchanges, holding it yourself, becoming a sovereign individual, memorizing 12 words.

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And when the world goes to shit, you can just, you know, go across any border, take all your wealth with you.

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I don't care what they do at the border, strip searches, sticks up your ass.

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It doesn't matter.

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You're going to come across on the other side.

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Maybe they'll give you a pair of pajamas.

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You're going to have all your wealth intact.

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You will be a sovereign individual. But to do that, you've got to have self-custody. And the more people that do self-custody, the less chance we have of this capture, regulatory guardrails, paper Bitcoin, seizure. Everything you can imagine can be fixed if people will just self-custody as quickly as they can.

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I think that that continues to be the best advice as you know Odell would say stay humble and stack

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sats and then get it get a large enough UTXO and transfer that to cold storage and live your life

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and with the knowledge that you cannot be diluted or debased or confiscated like that's a beautiful

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powerful thing and I think that this kind of brings me uh just because you mentioned as well

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to treasury companies I love to get your take on them I of the opinion these were inevitable Of course companies countries nation states corporations individuals everyone wants Bitcoin because Bitcoin is winning This is a natural progression in the long line of Bitcoin winning at this monetary game

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So of course, they're going to want it. You don't have to like it. You don't have to buy it.

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But you should know that this is, I think, overall, it's a good thing. Now, caution here is,

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I still recommend that everybody just buy spot Bitcoin and take it into self-custody because

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you, there's a very good chance that you're going to get burned with some of these treasury

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companies. It's not to say that there are bad people. I mean, there's, there's bad actors

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everywhere, but I know a lot of the people around some of these treasury companies,

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there's really great people. They are hardcore Bitcoiners. And I think what they're doing is good,

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but you, and for anyone out there, it's like, you're going to be better off just stacking

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Bitcoin and creating value and living your life. But I'm curious if you have, you know, any exposure

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to these. I know you've had micro strategy. I think we talked about that in the last show.

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Have you dabbled in any of these other ones? You know, is there anything you think folks are

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missing with these? Any either words of encouragement, words of caution? How do you think about them?

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Man, that's a, yeah, I like the way you phrase it. I like the, yeah, I like this.

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This is a good one.

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I got to think about how I'm going to phrase this.

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First off, disclosure.

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I should disclose, you know, I do own Strategy.

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And I do own MetaPlanet.

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I had some similar, but I ended up switching out from similar, doing some other investing.

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So doesn't that tell you something right there?

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What am I talking about?

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I'm not talking about holding Bitcoin.

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I'm talking about playing.

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I'm just having fun.

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I'm trading around.

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I'm looking at these things.

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Why?

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Because I like to study.

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I want to understand these companies.

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I want to figure out what they're about.

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And I have gone out of a deep rabbit hole and got hundreds of hours following these damn things.

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And boy, this is such a deep subject.

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How do you approach this?

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First off, I love what you said at the beginning.

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You remember what you said?

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They're inevitable.

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I agree 100%.

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Bitcoin is going to financialize and securitize all these different markets.

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We are like a monster.

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Bitcoin is a monster.

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It's a monster virus.

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It's spreading everywhere.

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You can't stop it.

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It's going to be in every company you can imagine. Right now, there's about 60 Bitcoin treasury companies that actually have any significant portion of Bitcoin, like maybe above about 10 Bitcoin.

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If you combine all of the different companies that are funded into it, both Bitcoin treasury companies and other funds, it's significantly higher, probably about 130, 140 companies.

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And it's incredible.

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They're up to about 1.4 million coins between all of them.

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And the ETFs and other funds similar to that, the investment funds, they're up about the same amount right now.

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That's an incredible inflow into products that are attempting to, again, securitize or be wrapped around Bitcoin.

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So you're right.

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It's inevitable.

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But, you know, I'm definitely worried about these Bitcoin treasury companies.

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We'll just call them treasury companies or BTCs or whatever the hell, because there is a threat there, a real threat.

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And they are trying to generate different metrics to somehow give investors a conventional framework to value their price, whether it's pulling forward value some way, a metric.

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I think that of all the ones that they're using, the one that – and I'm talking about everything from the time to cover going forward, the torque, the different convertible.

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Of all the things that we're discussing, the most important thing is MNAV.

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That is the concept of how much Bitcoin do they have on their balance sheet?

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What is the actual price of that company, the market cap?

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What kind of premium is associated with that company?

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You know, we saw some crazy valuations that were going up 10, 12.

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MetaPlanet was one of them.

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And why do I say that's the most important?

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Because of all the different things that they're attempting to do, nothing is more important to me as an investor who understands Bitcoin than getting more Bitcoin per share.

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I expect them to use everything, every tool in the box that they can use to get it.

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But that's the metric. You show me, prove to me on paper, and it's easy.

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Prove to me on paper that you're doing what I said, fully diluted shares.

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I want to know all the outstanding shares out there.

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You show me that over a period of time, you are getting more Bitcoin per share, and I'm thrilled.

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I'll just sit there and go, oh, that's great. I love it.

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But how are they doing that? They're doing it through that MNAB.

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As long as that MNAB is above one, life's good.

381
00:30:08,224 --> 00:30:12,984
Well, you know, I think you probably saw a downturn, didn't you, last time, Walker?

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Well, yeah.

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You mean in Bitcoin?

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Yeah.

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Oh, I mean, I started in 2020, like during COVID, probably around the same time as you,

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and then bought all the way up to that top and thought I was a genius and then felt the

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pit in my stomach grow as my stomach dropped out of my ass when we went down to 16K.

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But it was rough, but you keep stacking, right?

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So you can make an argument that we can talk about cycles later.

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But to think right now, for instance, that statement that Saylor, you know,

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Saylor's been the greatest spokesman of all for Bitcoin.

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I got no complaints with him, but he says stupid things sometimes.

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You know, his comment, you know, there will not be a crypto winner now.

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That's a dumb comment.

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He doesn't know that.

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Nobody knows what's coming down the road.

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There could be a crypto winner.

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It could go down 50, 60 percent within the next six months.

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That's possible.

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Anything's possible.

401
00:31:06,764 --> 00:31:15,144
Well, what I'm trying to say is if we have a severe, if we have a real downturn and that MNAV begins to compress, people will begin to flee that market.

402
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There is a recursive, reflexive loop associated with that trade.

403
00:31:20,084 --> 00:31:33,504
And that trade means that as that MNAV gets down to one or hits one, and then if it compresses below, meaning just what you saw in Sailor's Company, what strategy happened, they ended up with an MNAV down below.

404
00:31:33,504 --> 00:31:35,624
It was like maybe 0.75, 0.8.

405
00:31:35,664 --> 00:31:36,704
I can't remember what it was.

406
00:31:36,764 --> 00:31:55,764
So what would a normal company with fiduciary responsibility do in that case? They'd sell their Bitcoin. They would do that. That's why I say it could be recursive. It makes sense. It's not buying back your shares. If you understand how NNAV works on the way up, you should get it when it goes down below zero.

407
00:31:56,284 --> 00:32:01,644
Now, obviously, strategy does get this because they've already put out the information to people.

408
00:32:01,724 --> 00:32:02,724
They've said we're not selling.

409
00:32:02,884 --> 00:32:05,264
Even with an MNAP compressing below one, we're not selling.

410
00:32:05,664 --> 00:32:09,804
We are going to raise capital through our other various financial products.

411
00:32:10,464 --> 00:32:12,044
So what's the threat then?

412
00:32:12,404 --> 00:32:14,624
Well, the threat for strategy is not much.

413
00:32:14,904 --> 00:32:15,664
I don't give a shit.

414
00:32:15,864 --> 00:32:16,244
Go ahead.

415
00:32:16,324 --> 00:32:16,884
Let it compress.

416
00:32:17,004 --> 00:32:18,244
I'll get some more.

417
00:32:18,244 --> 00:32:19,024
I don't care.

418
00:32:19,824 --> 00:32:24,964
But what about for these other companies that don't have the access to the financial capital that he does?

419
00:32:25,704 --> 00:32:28,524
You know, they've got 636,000 coins right now.

420
00:32:29,344 --> 00:32:35,204
They've built up long relationships now of several years with companies to raise capital.

421
00:32:35,504 --> 00:32:37,024
And those are real relationships.

422
00:32:37,204 --> 00:32:38,424
He's talked about that on air.

423
00:32:38,804 --> 00:32:41,184
I have built relationships with these people.

424
00:32:41,404 --> 00:32:43,024
They're called QIBs.

425
00:32:43,124 --> 00:32:44,124
You know, they're buying either.

426
00:32:44,264 --> 00:32:47,384
He's actually negotiating some of these debt instruments with people.

427
00:32:47,504 --> 00:32:48,264
What do you want in these?

428
00:32:48,524 --> 00:32:49,524
What do you want me to take out?

429
00:32:50,164 --> 00:32:51,104
What do I need?

430
00:32:51,144 --> 00:32:51,764
I need this.

431
00:32:51,904 --> 00:32:53,764
I need and they're bargaining, negotiating.

432
00:32:53,884 --> 00:32:54,904
He's got capital.

433
00:32:54,964 --> 00:33:06,684
You know, Bitcoin would have to crash down to like $20,000 and stay down there for years for him to ever get in any kind of situation where he was raising capital sufficient where he had to sell something off.

434
00:33:07,164 --> 00:33:09,684
So their debt leverage, you know, that's nothing.

435
00:33:09,844 --> 00:33:11,724
Look at MetaPlanet, kind of the similar thing.

436
00:33:11,804 --> 00:33:18,824
They're using that market, that Japanese market, which is unique with NISA accounts, savings accounts that are tied to the stock market.

437
00:33:18,824 --> 00:33:24,824
The fact that if you go over to Japan and you buy Bitcoin and sell it, their capital gains is like 55 percent on Bitcoin.

438
00:33:25,904 --> 00:33:26,984
So it makes sense.

439
00:33:27,184 --> 00:33:37,504
I mean, but what about these small treasury companies that are out there and they're just all FOMOing in and they're just raising capital left and right and markets that are not thinking this through?

440
00:33:38,004 --> 00:33:48,004
I'm just telling you, if you're out there and you're thinking I'm going to get better returns than I can on Bitcoin, then you should know how those returns are being generated.

441
00:33:48,004 --> 00:33:53,664
You should understand what MNAV is. You should understand capital markets, access.

442
00:33:54,784 --> 00:33:57,824
And I'll take a break in a minute. I'll take a break now.

443
00:33:57,924 --> 00:34:03,964
But at the same time, I do want to talk a little bit about the marketing of these companies and how they're going about that, too.

444
00:34:04,224 --> 00:34:04,944
But go ahead.

445
00:34:05,264 --> 00:34:08,784
Let's do it. No, no, no. Roll right into it because I think you're spotting the money so far.

446
00:34:08,944 --> 00:34:11,284
So keep it – you know it's a safe space for rants and tangents.

447
00:34:11,624 --> 00:34:11,964
I know that.

448
00:34:11,964 --> 00:34:13,164
You know that. Come on.

449
00:34:13,624 --> 00:34:16,904
And I definitely have got some fucking rants to get out. I'll tell you right now.

450
00:34:16,904 --> 00:34:28,424
But this isn't really a rant as much as I think people don't understand that what makes these treasury companies not just unique but successful in my mind revolve around just a certain few principles.

451
00:34:28,984 --> 00:34:33,104
One, and this is very obvious to most Bitcoiners, it has to be 100% Bitcoin.

452
00:34:33,624 --> 00:34:37,124
You cannot be doing these treasury companies and mixing anything on your balance sheet.

453
00:34:37,204 --> 00:34:40,144
You have to be fully committed to Bitcoin.

454
00:34:40,664 --> 00:34:45,304
So that's my first – when I look at these companies like when I was doing an investing analysis, that's the first thing.

455
00:34:45,304 --> 00:34:46,844
Are you 100% Bitcoin?

456
00:34:46,904 --> 00:34:52,684
And I look to see what the CEOs are saying about their conviction and where they feel Bitcoin is going.

457
00:34:53,064 --> 00:34:57,824
I look at like that idiot in GameStop that came in out on Vegas.

458
00:34:58,004 --> 00:35:01,424
I didn't go to Vegas because there were shit coiners and other stuff going on there.

459
00:35:01,484 --> 00:35:07,344
But you know what? That clown that came out on the stage there, Cohen, you know, it was not only was his speech a flop.

460
00:35:07,344 --> 00:35:11,884
I mean, he could have just done a face plan on the stage because later he doubles down on it.

461
00:35:11,884 --> 00:35:19,484
And, you know, his purchase was so small out of that treasury asset that they raised that he showed me this is what I'm trying to say.

462
00:35:19,684 --> 00:35:21,784
He showed me he didn't have the conviction.

463
00:35:22,584 --> 00:35:23,924
He wasn't all in.

464
00:35:24,044 --> 00:35:24,804
And you've got to be.

465
00:35:24,904 --> 00:35:27,884
And then three, you've got to be totally transparent.

466
00:35:28,724 --> 00:35:30,664
You know, there's been pushback.

467
00:35:30,744 --> 00:35:32,684
I've mentioned this in a podcast recently.

468
00:35:32,824 --> 00:35:38,344
There's been a lot of pushback against some of these influencers, podcasters being involved in these treasury companies.

469
00:35:38,344 --> 00:35:44,724
But if you think about it and what I'm discussing, it makes a lot of sense because you have to get your message out.

470
00:35:45,144 --> 00:35:47,244
You've got to have your word out on the market.

471
00:35:47,364 --> 00:35:52,184
People need to understand on a daily, weekly basis what you're doing.

472
00:35:52,784 --> 00:35:56,504
You know, sailors putting out information every week about what their plan odds.

473
00:35:56,924 --> 00:35:59,984
Their earnings calls are works of art.

474
00:36:00,784 --> 00:36:05,704
And so, you know, there's a lot of things behind a successful treasury company.

475
00:36:05,704 --> 00:36:11,764
But let's just end it on the note because this is a deep subject that I do have concerns.

476
00:36:12,164 --> 00:36:14,124
I mean I am concerned about this going forward.

477
00:36:15,164 --> 00:36:18,964
Yeah, I think that you brought up a ton of great points there.

478
00:36:19,024 --> 00:36:22,284
So I'm trying to figure out where best to kind of jump off of there.

479
00:36:22,744 --> 00:36:26,964
But I think, again, the important thing is that there's different levels of these companies, right?

480
00:36:27,024 --> 00:36:30,724
Like strategy is in its own class, right?

481
00:36:31,684 --> 00:36:32,984
Far and away, nobody's touching them.

482
00:36:32,984 --> 00:36:36,764
the other instruments that they're providing with these four different products,

483
00:36:37,164 --> 00:36:40,324
you know, strike, stride, strife, and what?

484
00:36:40,744 --> 00:36:41,824
Stretch. Don't forget stretch.

485
00:36:41,824 --> 00:36:42,584
And stretch, yes. Thank you.

486
00:36:42,824 --> 00:36:44,164
Because that's important.

487
00:36:44,544 --> 00:36:45,004
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

488
00:36:45,184 --> 00:36:48,704
I just, you know, so many S words, you know, I get confused sometimes.

489
00:36:49,304 --> 00:36:54,804
But, like, they are providing a wealth of products that the others simply are not

490
00:36:54,804 --> 00:36:57,764
and cannot really, because they're not operating at the same size, right?

491
00:36:57,764 --> 00:37:02,224
And one thing I do want to maybe talk about is what you think about S&P inclusion for sailor

492
00:37:02,224 --> 00:37:03,204
or for strategy.

493
00:37:03,424 --> 00:37:04,584
We can get into that in a sec here.

494
00:37:05,324 --> 00:37:06,704
But again, I mean, I think you're right.

495
00:37:06,724 --> 00:37:08,524
Is it fair to say that I want to clarify this?

496
00:37:08,764 --> 00:37:11,764
Is your concern like that you think

497
00:37:11,764 --> 00:37:13,884
this is going to potentially have a negative blowback

498
00:37:13,884 --> 00:37:16,344
on Bitcoin or more so you'd think a lot of just plebs

499
00:37:16,344 --> 00:37:18,764
are going to get hurt by trying to outpace

500
00:37:18,764 --> 00:37:21,024
the rate of Bitcoin's growth itself,

501
00:37:21,084 --> 00:37:22,004
which is pretty amazing.

502
00:37:22,504 --> 00:37:24,084
They're going to ape into some of these treasury companies.

503
00:37:24,204 --> 00:37:26,004
They're going to try to teleport to become an OG

504
00:37:26,004 --> 00:37:27,384
like American HODL talks about,

505
00:37:27,424 --> 00:37:28,264
and they're just going to get hurt.

506
00:37:28,324 --> 00:37:29,104
Is that the concern?

507
00:37:29,864 --> 00:37:30,444
I love that.

508
00:37:30,444 --> 00:37:32,844
I love that teleport to OG status.

509
00:37:33,224 --> 00:37:34,104
I just think, yeah.

510
00:37:34,464 --> 00:37:34,964
You know what?

511
00:37:35,004 --> 00:37:36,044
That doesn't work that way.

512
00:37:36,224 --> 00:37:37,584
I mean, and here's the thing, OK?

513
00:37:38,604 --> 00:37:40,284
Let's just start from this principle.

514
00:37:40,884 --> 00:37:52,104
If Bitcoin has returned 55% CAGR, you know, annual growth rate for the last five years, what the fuck more do you need than that?

515
00:37:52,464 --> 00:37:58,544
So if you're not like me and you're just you've already got your Bitcoin, you got all the Bitcoin you want, you got your Bitcoin.

516
00:37:58,544 --> 00:38:03,244
Now you're just wanting to play around with these. OK, great. But if you think that.

517
00:38:04,344 --> 00:38:23,244
So my concerns are both those things you mentioned, OK, not only getting hurt, but I honestly think that they are a threat, meaning that many of these companies that are not convicted are going to do just what I said, that if the market if the market has a downturn, they are going to be pressured into selling.

518
00:38:24,064 --> 00:38:28,644
And there is a case to be made for why that makes sense.

519
00:38:28,864 --> 00:38:29,964
It does on paper.

520
00:38:30,044 --> 00:38:30,984
It just makes sense.

521
00:38:31,624 --> 00:38:32,904
So just beware.

522
00:38:33,084 --> 00:38:37,204
And I'm not saying I'm not a fan of the treasury companies because you remember what you said?

523
00:38:37,284 --> 00:38:38,104
It's so true.

524
00:38:38,284 --> 00:38:39,284
You got it, Rope Walker.

525
00:38:39,444 --> 00:38:40,144
It's inevitable.

526
00:38:40,544 --> 00:38:46,404
And George, you know, Jethro sitting here, you know, yelling at the people, don't buy those Bitcoin treasury.

527
00:38:46,544 --> 00:38:47,524
It doesn't mean jack shit.

528
00:38:47,524 --> 00:38:54,744
People are going to buy that because they want that securitization, that financialization using Bitcoin.

529
00:38:54,864 --> 00:38:57,664
And it's inevitable. It's going to be everywhere. It's a virus.

530
00:38:58,444 --> 00:39:15,424
Yeah. And I think the one point I would push back on is just that I don't view it as too much of a threat to Bitcoin or threat to Bitcoin's fiat value for these smaller companies, specifically because their size is so small.

531
00:39:15,424 --> 00:39:19,164
You know, like, yes, could it have some short-term, you know, a little bit of turmoil?

532
00:39:19,544 --> 00:39:19,864
Maybe.

533
00:39:20,404 --> 00:39:25,604
But it's not going to, it's never going to, you know, form this contagion that trickles all the way up to Saylor.

534
00:39:25,904 --> 00:39:27,744
And he has orders of magnitude more coins.

535
00:39:28,264 --> 00:39:35,264
You know, you look at these bear whales, or not bear whales, but, you know, OG whales that have been selling, you know, 80,000 coins, 20,000 coins.

536
00:39:36,084 --> 00:39:43,204
That's more than basically all the treasury, like, you take MicroStrategy out, that's more than all the treasury companies combined, like, right now.

537
00:39:43,204 --> 00:39:48,804
could that get into a different position probably you know maybe i'm not sure you know i'm i can't

538
00:39:48,804 --> 00:39:53,604
predict the future but i'm less concerned about that i'm more concerned about plebs getting

539
00:39:53,604 --> 00:39:59,144
wrecked and like full disclosure as well i've owned some micro strategy for a while um like i've

540
00:39:59,144 --> 00:40:04,784
owned uh bought some meta planet when their m nav was almost as high as it went felt like a you know

541
00:40:04,784 --> 00:40:09,044
jumped in the train got there for a couple days but this is i own a couple others i have a little

542
00:40:09,044 --> 00:40:13,944
bit of a little bit of a similar. I have a, I have a little bit of a, of Nakamoto. I have a little

543
00:40:13,944 --> 00:40:18,364
bit of a couple others. Honestly, they're all getting wrecked compared to Bitcoin. They're all

544
00:40:18,364 --> 00:40:25,024
getting absolutely destroyed. And I, I mean, I knew that was a likely course of action. I, sometimes

545
00:40:25,024 --> 00:40:30,764
I told checkmate this the other day, I was like, I quote trade with a very, very, very small amount

546
00:40:30,764 --> 00:40:35,844
of, you know, fiat cuck bucks, because it's, it's important for me to stay humble that way by

547
00:40:35,844 --> 00:40:40,404
reminding myself that I'm just a terrible trader. And the only good trades I have are when I buy

548
00:40:40,404 --> 00:40:45,124
something when it's cheap and I just hold it. You know, I never I never do a good job when I'm

549
00:40:45,124 --> 00:40:49,324
trying to chase trends. So it's like for me, it's bringing myself back down to earth. And so that's

550
00:40:49,324 --> 00:40:54,484
why I always say just get just get Bitcoin. Just get Bitcoin. Let me interrupt you for a minute and

551
00:40:54,484 --> 00:40:58,984
tell you something. You know, you talk about being stupid or chasing trends or making wrong trades.

552
00:40:58,984 --> 00:41:04,364
I left. I calculated one time and it was really painful. But, you know, I bought MicroStrategy

553
00:41:04,364 --> 00:41:09,084
years and years ago when it was like $12, $20 a share.

554
00:41:09,264 --> 00:41:13,604
I don't know what it is today, but it's probably like that was before it split.

555
00:41:13,764 --> 00:41:16,424
So we're talking it's probably around $4,000 a share now.

556
00:41:16,504 --> 00:41:17,224
I don't know what it is.

557
00:41:17,224 --> 00:41:23,704
So I left about $5 to $8 million on the table by selling that stock.

558
00:41:23,924 --> 00:41:27,384
It had gone up five or six times, and I thought, man, boy, I'm a genius.

559
00:41:27,584 --> 00:41:29,104
I am one of the smartest people I know.

560
00:41:29,524 --> 00:41:31,264
Great return, and so I sold it all.

561
00:41:31,264 --> 00:41:37,304
And, of course, several years later, well, it wasn't even that long, but a couple of years later, I went and thought, you know, that was pretty stupid.

562
00:41:37,444 --> 00:41:42,344
And so I got back into it. And, you know, everybody does this. It's the psychology of markets.

563
00:41:42,504 --> 00:41:46,164
You know, Walker, it just it is the nature of learning. It's the beast.

564
00:41:46,424 --> 00:41:54,704
And the longer you're in these markets, I mean, hopefully you can get smart and realize that you're often your worst enemy is you.

565
00:41:56,184 --> 00:42:00,564
Amen to that. And again, that's why, like, you know, for me, it's Bitcoin is saving for me.

566
00:42:00,564 --> 00:42:03,104
It's actually money that we can save in.

567
00:42:03,164 --> 00:42:05,204
You can't save in fiat because fiat's debased.

568
00:42:05,284 --> 00:42:07,744
You can't hold it for a long period of time because you lose purchasing power.

569
00:42:08,444 --> 00:42:12,464
Gold is pretty good for saving because it maintains its purchasing power over time.

570
00:42:12,624 --> 00:42:13,204
It does that.

571
00:42:13,284 --> 00:42:16,284
It doesn't really in terms of the real goods that you can buy with gold.

572
00:42:16,744 --> 00:42:20,224
It's not really increasing, but you're maintaining purchasing power.

573
00:42:20,444 --> 00:42:21,564
At least you're not losing it.

574
00:42:22,524 --> 00:42:25,104
Bitcoin, you can actually grow your purchasing power over time.

575
00:42:25,184 --> 00:42:27,084
You can save because it is sound money.

576
00:42:27,444 --> 00:42:30,524
We're not used to that because we don't have that in the fiat world.

577
00:42:30,564 --> 00:42:37,564
Bitcoin is unique in that regard, as you touched on earlier. And so for me, I was a terrible saver

578
00:42:37,564 --> 00:42:44,284
before Bitcoin. I was a terrible investor too. Still a bad trader. That hasn't changed.

579
00:42:45,064 --> 00:42:52,044
But Bitcoin finally gave me a vehicle in which I could actually save. And I'm a good saver,

580
00:42:52,124 --> 00:42:57,324
it turns out, when I save in Bitcoin. Everyone's a bad saver when you're saving in fiat. And so

581
00:42:57,324 --> 00:43:01,004
that's what, you know, for, for the vast majority of people, like if you want to play,

582
00:43:01,404 --> 00:43:04,164
do whatever the fuck you want with your money. I don't care. It's your money. I'm not here to tell

583
00:43:04,164 --> 00:43:09,264
you what to do with it. But for me, it's like, I try to stay as humble as I can. I try to create

584
00:43:09,264 --> 00:43:14,364
value. I try to stack as many sats as I can. And I try to spend as much time with my family as I can.

585
00:43:14,724 --> 00:43:19,424
And that's, what's really important to me, you know, and the less time I spend trading the better.

586
00:43:19,424 --> 00:43:24,624
Because again, I am terrible at it. So, and I know this about myself, but I have to remind myself

587
00:43:24,624 --> 00:43:27,924
every now and again by burning a few fiat cuck bucks.

588
00:43:28,924 --> 00:43:31,344
You know, Bitcoin does, it is that,

589
00:43:32,084 --> 00:43:33,244
I'm glad you brought that up.

590
00:43:33,304 --> 00:43:34,824
Let's pivot the conversation then

591
00:43:34,824 --> 00:43:36,504
and talk about some other things

592
00:43:36,504 --> 00:43:40,424
that are even more maybe cyclical,

593
00:43:40,544 --> 00:43:42,564
but also very important right now.

594
00:43:42,984 --> 00:43:44,824
You know, I have been reviewing

595
00:43:44,824 --> 00:43:48,124
and reading Neil Howe's Fourth Turning Again.

596
00:43:48,584 --> 00:43:50,764
And for those people that aren't familiar with it,

597
00:43:50,784 --> 00:43:51,684
if you're listening and stuff,

598
00:43:51,704 --> 00:43:53,784
it's really a theory about cycles.

599
00:43:53,784 --> 00:44:00,424
and the fact that we go through these cycles of 80 to 100 years called seculums that kind of mirror

600
00:44:00,424 --> 00:44:08,364
the idea of a longest-lived human life in history. And if you follow the theory, you realize that in

601
00:44:08,364 --> 00:44:14,524
2008, and they predicted this about nine years prior, but they said around 2008, and that's when

602
00:44:14,524 --> 00:44:20,804
it happened, we would be in what would start the fourth turning, the idea of crisis that we're in

603
00:44:20,804 --> 00:44:28,104
now. And this idea that you just mentioned, the idea of trying to store value of all the things

604
00:44:28,104 --> 00:44:32,204
that I think is going to be very, very critical for people going forward over the next few years,

605
00:44:32,204 --> 00:44:37,544
we're going to have a really, we're going to have a really difficult time as a nation and in the

606
00:44:37,544 --> 00:44:42,804
world and for just ordinary people like us over the next three to five years. It is going to be

607
00:44:42,804 --> 00:44:51,044
just a shit show. You know, I just saw yesterday, I was looking at a chart from the St. Louis Fed.

608
00:44:52,664 --> 00:44:57,944
It showed that from the launch of ChatGPT, which was the spring of 22,

609
00:44:59,024 --> 00:45:04,724
so just the very first iteration, and in three years, just three short years,

610
00:45:04,724 --> 00:45:13,124
the average American's kilowatt hour cost has gone up 35 percent in their home, 35 percent across the country.

611
00:45:13,964 --> 00:45:14,104
Wow.

612
00:45:14,584 --> 00:45:16,284
And I'll tell you another thing.

613
00:45:16,364 --> 00:45:19,744
If you look back, it's just a straight line like this until 22.

614
00:45:20,164 --> 00:45:23,264
Then it bumps and it's like a hockey stick and it's still going up.

615
00:45:24,164 --> 00:45:33,324
We are going to have some, I think, really difficult secular inflation going on where certain you are going to be exposed in certain areas like child care,

616
00:45:33,324 --> 00:45:41,364
health care, car insurance, all of these different things that are going to make your life very

617
00:45:41,364 --> 00:45:47,124
difficult going forward. And what Bitcoin can give you, that hope, is that you can finally find

618
00:45:47,124 --> 00:45:54,364
something that you can store your value in and rest and be at peace. If you look at, you know,

619
00:45:54,884 --> 00:45:59,104
Bretton Woods only lasted for about a dozen years. People don't realize that in 71,

620
00:45:59,104 --> 00:46:04,764
when Nixon closed the gold window, we broke the peg. You know, prior to that, we were pegging the

621
00:46:04,764 --> 00:46:10,044
dollar attempting to to gold. And then other nations would peg their currencies to the dollar.

622
00:46:10,524 --> 00:46:16,824
Well, we broke that. And if you look at a lot of charts, you can see 1971, for instance,

623
00:46:16,824 --> 00:46:23,284
wealth inequality is the moment where our worlds change. You know, we are in a have yacht and have

624
00:46:23,284 --> 00:46:30,924
not economy right now. And it's getting worse. And it's all based upon this fiat system that's

625
00:46:30,924 --> 00:46:38,904
not tied to anything anymore. You know, the problem is, what did we do? After he closed the

626
00:46:38,904 --> 00:46:44,884
gold window, we attempted to make, we attempted to peg the world to our cash, our currency.

627
00:46:45,344 --> 00:46:52,804
And that currency is backed basically by U.S. treasuries. So we have seen a world where we've

628
00:46:52,804 --> 00:47:02,644
We've wanted to export dollars, force other nations to purchase our treasuries and at the same time artificially boost the value of our currency, our cash.

629
00:47:03,444 --> 00:47:07,104
And we've been a deficit nation for decades now.

630
00:47:07,244 --> 00:47:08,724
And it's coming home to roost.

631
00:47:08,824 --> 00:47:09,824
That's what I'm trying to say.

632
00:47:10,284 --> 00:47:12,964
I'm just telling people, you know, this is going to be a difficult time.

633
00:47:13,384 --> 00:47:18,804
You've got to find things that this government and the rest of the governments here cannot fucking print.

634
00:47:19,004 --> 00:47:20,644
And they cannot print Bitcoin.

635
00:47:20,644 --> 00:47:21,604
Now, I can prove that.

636
00:47:21,784 --> 00:47:22,764
They cannot print gold.

637
00:47:22,804 --> 00:47:35,644
I am a former gold bug, and I also understand gold, and I have no problems understanding why other investors think gold is a great escape valve because I do too.

638
00:47:36,384 --> 00:47:37,684
It cannot be printed.

639
00:47:38,144 --> 00:47:41,064
Now, it can be papered, but it can't be printed.

640
00:47:41,824 --> 00:47:44,604
The thing is that you've got to find things right now.

641
00:47:44,684 --> 00:47:45,164
It's critical.

642
00:47:45,324 --> 00:47:49,864
I mean this is a critical moment in your world over the next three to five years.

643
00:47:49,924 --> 00:47:51,964
You've got to find things that you can store value in.

644
00:47:51,964 --> 00:47:58,244
So I'm glad you brought that up. I think it's Bitcoin personally. And, you know, I tolerate the gold bugs, too.

645
00:47:59,564 --> 00:48:03,264
Yeah. No, I mean, you know, the gold bugs, their heart is in the right place, right?

646
00:48:03,804 --> 00:48:13,264
They are also fans of sound money. Nobody is a fan of debasement except those that are the very closest to the printer who hold the have yachts, as you said.

647
00:48:13,324 --> 00:48:15,924
That's that's that's nice. I do. I am not a have yacht.

648
00:48:16,344 --> 00:48:21,464
Be nice to have a yacht someday. That's it seems like a ways away, though. We'll see. We'll see what Bitcoin does.

649
00:48:21,964 --> 00:48:28,704
I would also somewhat hate parting with Bitcoin for a yacht because, boy, I've heard the upkeep on them is just astronomical.

650
00:48:29,024 --> 00:48:29,924
But I digress.

651
00:48:30,264 --> 00:48:31,444
I flew with a captain.

652
00:48:31,524 --> 00:48:32,284
I'm just going to interrupt you.

653
00:48:32,364 --> 00:48:37,404
I flew with a captain one time and I was talking about, I don't know what it was, getting a plane or something like that.

654
00:48:37,404 --> 00:48:42,544
And he looked over and he said, son, if it flies, floats or fucks, it's better to just rent it.

655
00:48:42,904 --> 00:48:44,244
And I thought, you know what?

656
00:48:44,264 --> 00:48:45,264
That's probably true, buddy.

657
00:48:45,824 --> 00:48:46,284
So, yeah.

658
00:48:46,404 --> 00:48:51,384
And the other way to describe a yacht is you just put a hole in the ocean and pour as much money into it as you can.

659
00:48:51,384 --> 00:49:17,484
So I probably am not going to do the yacht either. But the bottom line is that those people, you're right, that are closest to the money printer, they are really benefiting. I mentioned recently, you know, Nancy Pelosi came into Congress with $3 million in 1985. She's now worth $413 million. And her average, the max average salary, I think is $174,000 a year.

660
00:49:17,484 --> 00:49:25,944
Her husband, same way. He's just boom. And it doesn't matter what party. Republican, same way. You can look at Mitch Connell. I can tell you his story. It's the exact same story.

661
00:49:26,804 --> 00:49:34,324
Got that. That's one of those things that bugs me so deeply because it's insider trading at the highest level.

662
00:49:34,324 --> 00:49:43,924
I mean, it's the same with the Fed presidents who people have kind of forgotten about this thing. This was 2023, though. You had Fed Fed presidents, Rosengren and Kaplan.

663
00:49:44,264 --> 00:49:47,164
Kaplan. And there was one more whose name escapes me.

664
00:49:47,164 --> 00:49:49,084
Bostick was also in the Atlantic.

665
00:49:49,424 --> 00:49:50,764
Atlanta Fed was accused.

666
00:49:51,064 --> 00:49:51,224
Yeah.

667
00:49:51,304 --> 00:49:53,304
And he refused to resign.

668
00:49:53,924 --> 00:49:54,104
Yeah.

669
00:49:54,224 --> 00:49:54,384
Yeah.

670
00:49:54,404 --> 00:49:55,704
But the other two, they stepped on this.

671
00:49:55,824 --> 00:50:00,324
Oh, well, you know, maybe we did some, but we weren't trying to do anything.

672
00:50:00,324 --> 00:50:03,804
And it's like that is literally that's an even higher level of insider trading.

673
00:50:03,924 --> 00:50:06,484
You are the you are the cabal that controls the money.

674
00:50:06,604 --> 00:50:08,184
You are part of the Federal Reserve.

675
00:50:08,464 --> 00:50:15,344
And you are you literally have the most material nonpublic information that you could possibly that anyone could possibly have.

676
00:50:15,344 --> 00:50:17,924
because you know how fast the printer is going to be running.

677
00:50:18,304 --> 00:50:20,784
You know what the price of money is going to be.

678
00:50:21,084 --> 00:50:25,804
So for you to insider trade on that information, it's like, man, it is shocking.

679
00:50:26,284 --> 00:50:29,904
If people paid attention more, we would have brought back the guillotine a long time ago, I think.

680
00:50:30,264 --> 00:50:31,604
But most people don't pay attention.

681
00:50:32,364 --> 00:50:34,404
They don't know what's actually happening out there.

682
00:50:34,404 --> 00:50:45,988
But the fact that you know you throw sweet Martha Stewart in jail for insider trading but these fucking crooks at the Fed and in Congress just insider trade nonstop And there never any repercussions

683
00:50:46,488 --> 00:50:49,488
There's there's there's never any even acknowledgement of it.

684
00:50:49,688 --> 00:50:49,868
Zero.

685
00:50:50,048 --> 00:50:55,568
It's disgusting like that until we fix that until there is any sort of accountability there.

686
00:50:55,708 --> 00:50:59,228
I think I mean, well, the Fed is a joke anyway and should be abolished.

687
00:50:59,228 --> 00:51:02,328
But our Congress as well has zero legitimacy.

688
00:51:02,328 --> 00:51:15,428
Yeah, you know, the thing is, being a student of history, you know, having read a lot about history, this is not just nothing new, but I don't think that this is going to change.

689
00:51:15,568 --> 00:51:19,388
I mean, those who are closest, for instance, I'll tell you a great story.

690
00:51:19,868 --> 00:51:22,708
Spain is probably one of the world's first reserve currencies.

691
00:51:22,708 --> 00:51:34,028
Back in the 15th, 16th century, they were bringing back gold in huge galleons from the New World, mainly in Central and South America.

692
00:51:34,348 --> 00:51:36,628
And what they did was brutal to extract it.

693
00:51:36,708 --> 00:51:38,148
But the bottom line is, guess what happened?

694
00:51:38,548 --> 00:51:46,568
They would bring a galleon of gold, a full galleon ship into port, and the economy would immediately inflate.

695
00:51:47,468 --> 00:51:52,068
Because, again, they were increasing the hard physical money.

696
00:51:52,828 --> 00:52:06,068
And the thing is that those who were closest to that galleon when it arrived, and I'm talking the government officials, the religious officials within the Catholic Church at that time, they received the most benefit from that gold.

697
00:52:06,068 --> 00:52:15,408
And what happened is it – what they did is they bought as much as they could before prices inflated because they had the hard money.

698
00:52:15,408 --> 00:52:20,048
And as that gold worked its way through the system, prices went up and up and up.

699
00:52:20,128 --> 00:52:28,008
And then it was the shopkeeper that was sitting there with his legs being cut off because he couldn't keep up with that level of inflation.

700
00:52:28,008 --> 00:52:31,828
And he didn't have access to that money until it was distributed.

701
00:52:32,388 --> 00:52:34,288
And then they did the same thing the U.S. did.

702
00:52:34,528 --> 00:52:42,488
They were a world currency, and they began to export all of their wealth outside of their nation's borders.

703
00:52:42,488 --> 00:52:46,168
They exported their manufacturing because they could buy things.

704
00:52:46,568 --> 00:52:50,108
And, you know, eventually it resulted in endless wars for them.

705
00:52:50,168 --> 00:52:51,968
And finally, they collapsed.

706
00:52:53,488 --> 00:52:57,248
It's interesting, too, because we have history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.

707
00:52:57,348 --> 00:53:00,408
Right. And I think you're correct that so many of these things are destined to repeat.

708
00:53:00,528 --> 00:53:03,648
History occurs in these cycles that all kind of rhyme.

709
00:53:03,988 --> 00:53:07,688
And you even you saw, you know, that's that's I love that story about Spain.

710
00:53:07,688 --> 00:53:15,268
And it's like, it's one of my favorites because it shows that look, even, you know, if you have a liquidity injection, even in a hard asset, something happens.

711
00:53:15,328 --> 00:53:19,488
And as you said, the important thing there, which people sometimes gloss over, they just look, oh, the inflation.

712
00:53:19,768 --> 00:53:22,748
People assume that inflation just kind of like happens all like that.

713
00:53:22,748 --> 00:53:23,168
It doesn't.

714
00:53:23,248 --> 00:53:25,588
It's, you know, it trickles down.

715
00:53:25,748 --> 00:53:26,988
It's not trickled on economics.

716
00:53:27,168 --> 00:53:28,268
It's, you know, trickled on inflation.

717
00:53:28,468 --> 00:53:29,908
It's trickled on money, right?

718
00:53:30,288 --> 00:53:33,248
And we saw that exact same thing during COVID.

719
00:53:33,248 --> 00:53:40,468
When they printed, they injected trillions of dollars into the economy under Trump so damn quickly.

720
00:53:40,648 --> 00:53:48,008
I mean, you look at the M2 money supply graph, and that thing is just straight up, straight up like you've never seen.

721
00:53:48,628 --> 00:53:49,568
And what happened?

722
00:53:50,068 --> 00:53:51,908
Initially, there's no inflation.

723
00:53:52,028 --> 00:53:54,468
There's no, quote, inflation, or so they say.

724
00:53:54,768 --> 00:53:57,308
But asset prices start going ballistic.

725
00:53:57,568 --> 00:54:02,088
And people don't think about that as inflation, but it is a result of the monetary inflation.

726
00:54:02,088 --> 00:54:07,188
It's asset prices are the first thing that gets bid up when there's a huge liquidity injection, right?

727
00:54:07,308 --> 00:54:08,188
The hard assets.

728
00:54:08,828 --> 00:54:11,368
Or also the various equities and things.

729
00:54:11,488 --> 00:54:14,088
But you saw real estate go ballistic.

730
00:54:14,388 --> 00:54:16,448
You saw the stock market go ballistic.

731
00:54:16,788 --> 00:54:17,828
And you're like, this doesn't make any sense.

732
00:54:17,888 --> 00:54:18,968
Everything's all shut down.

733
00:54:19,188 --> 00:54:20,688
How the heck is this happening?

734
00:54:21,088 --> 00:54:26,688
But hey, there's no, quote, inflation because my ground beef is still about the same price as it was.

735
00:54:26,748 --> 00:54:30,468
I mean, maybe it's 2% higher because that's the healthy amount of inflation for you

736
00:54:30,468 --> 00:54:32,148
thanks to your friendly central banker.

737
00:54:32,788 --> 00:54:34,248
And then inflation is transitory.

738
00:54:34,628 --> 00:54:38,888
Once the inflation starts actually trickling down to the consumer goods and services

739
00:54:38,888 --> 00:54:41,308
that people actually rely on to live their lives,

740
00:54:41,908 --> 00:54:43,248
trickles down from the assets into those,

741
00:54:43,308 --> 00:54:44,048
and then people start saying,

742
00:54:44,128 --> 00:54:46,548
okay, well, that is getting a bit more expensive.

743
00:54:46,668 --> 00:54:48,868
That's 10%, 15% more expensive than last year,

744
00:54:48,928 --> 00:54:49,688
but it's okay.

745
00:54:49,748 --> 00:54:50,748
It's transitory, guys.

746
00:54:50,788 --> 00:54:52,408
It's just a hump and it will go down.

747
00:54:52,648 --> 00:54:53,268
It will come.

748
00:54:53,328 --> 00:54:54,568
It will come, as Lagarde said.

749
00:54:54,988 --> 00:54:55,968
It's all transitory.

750
00:54:56,308 --> 00:54:58,148
Then, well, maybe it's stickier than we thought.

751
00:54:58,308 --> 00:54:59,888
Okay, it's actually, wow,

752
00:54:59,888 --> 00:55:03,828
now everything's about 50% more expensive than it was when we started this money printing.

753
00:55:04,388 --> 00:55:10,608
And so it goes and so it goes. But people ignore the asset price inflation when you have these big

754
00:55:10,608 --> 00:55:15,828
liquidity injections. When the money printer goes burr, asset prices are the first thing

755
00:55:15,828 --> 00:55:21,368
to pick up that new liquidity. And those that hold the most assets are the biggest beneficiaries of

756
00:55:21,368 --> 00:55:25,628
it. And those are the folks that are closest to the creation of new money. This is the Cantillon

757
00:55:25,628 --> 00:55:27,328
or Cantillon, however you'd like to pronounce it,

758
00:55:27,388 --> 00:55:29,888
in fact, Richard Cantillon, Irish-French economist,

759
00:55:30,428 --> 00:55:31,128
that's what he proposed.

760
00:55:31,208 --> 00:55:33,548
Those closest to the proximity of creation of new money

761
00:55:33,548 --> 00:55:35,688
derive the greatest benefit from it.

762
00:55:36,088 --> 00:55:38,848
And everyone else, you know, they get the shit end of the stick.

763
00:55:40,028 --> 00:55:41,868
There are so many ways to take this conversation.

764
00:55:42,248 --> 00:55:45,068
I mean, if you look at the history,

765
00:55:45,208 --> 00:55:46,968
as we were talking about with Bretton Woods

766
00:55:46,968 --> 00:55:48,808
and what happened to the U.S.,

767
00:55:48,808 --> 00:55:50,748
and you look at the U.S. treasury market

768
00:55:50,748 --> 00:55:52,748
across the world right now,

769
00:55:52,748 --> 00:55:53,668
and then you look at gold.

770
00:55:53,668 --> 00:56:07,448
For instance, you know, central banks have been stockpiling gold at a tremendous amount, and especially since 22, after the invasion of Ukraine by Russia, then our seizure of the Russian FX reserve has been nonstop.

771
00:56:07,528 --> 00:56:09,888
You can look at it just going straight up.

772
00:56:10,548 --> 00:56:20,128
And in fact, for the very first time in decades, U.S. – excuse me, world central banks are now purchasing more gold than they are U.S. treasuries.

773
00:56:20,788 --> 00:56:24,648
And, you know, in 2010, that's when China pivoted from U.S. treasuries.

774
00:56:24,868 --> 00:56:26,788
They knew that we were not going to stop printing.

775
00:56:26,868 --> 00:56:27,428
It was Bernanke.

776
00:56:27,788 --> 00:56:29,968
And they said, oh, we see what's coming here.

777
00:56:29,988 --> 00:56:34,248
And they went from like about one point two five trillion dollars in U.S. treasuries.

778
00:56:34,248 --> 00:56:39,028
They're down somewhere north of 700 million or a billion, I think, right now.

779
00:56:39,748 --> 00:56:41,108
So that's one way to take this.

780
00:56:41,168 --> 00:56:49,268
But the other thing I'll tell Bitcoiners, too, is a lot of Bitcoiners think that we're going to be able to solve this issue through, I don't know, a strategic Bitcoin reserve.

781
00:56:49,268 --> 00:56:51,928
or somehow backing the dollar by Bitcoin.

782
00:56:52,248 --> 00:56:57,328
I will tell you right now, if we backed, if we went all in on Bitcoin,

783
00:56:57,488 --> 00:57:01,768
if the U.S. stole strategy and got a huge stockpile of Bitcoin

784
00:57:01,768 --> 00:57:05,588
and we backed up the dollar by Bitcoin, our Bitcoin would be gone within a decade.

785
00:57:06,048 --> 00:57:09,928
If you don't change the dynamics of what I was discussing before,

786
00:57:10,488 --> 00:57:15,708
if you cannot understand that we need a neutral reserve asset for the world,

787
00:57:16,128 --> 00:57:17,228
then nothing will change.

788
00:57:17,228 --> 00:57:21,568
If we stayed in the same system we're in right now, I don't give a shit what you back our dollar with.

789
00:57:21,648 --> 00:57:23,748
It's going to exit our country.

790
00:57:23,988 --> 00:57:29,008
Right now, if you look at the history of gold and you say, OK, well, why did we de-peg?

791
00:57:29,188 --> 00:57:34,568
Well, because we had over 20,000 tons of gold at the end of World War II.

792
00:57:34,888 --> 00:57:37,968
And by the time Nixon gave up, we were down to about 8,000, maybe.

793
00:57:38,368 --> 00:57:39,748
Still hasn't been audited, kids.

794
00:57:40,288 --> 00:57:41,948
We still haven't had an audit of the Bitcoin.

795
00:57:42,528 --> 00:57:46,688
We haven't still bought one single fucking sat, by the way, of Bitcoin.

796
00:57:47,088 --> 00:57:49,228
We've taken a lot of Bitcoin we've seized.

797
00:57:49,488 --> 00:57:54,148
So that's another reason you should be thinking to yourself, gee, I wonder if I should get some Bitcoin in cold storage.

798
00:57:54,928 --> 00:57:56,128
Anyway, I digress.

799
00:57:56,128 --> 00:58:05,208
What I'm trying to say is we need something almost like what was proposed in Bretton Woods originally in 1944.

800
00:58:05,628 --> 00:58:14,828
And that is the idea of a special drawing rights, you know, a basket, some bank or something that is a neutral basket or some neutral reserve asset.

801
00:58:14,828 --> 00:58:20,508
And it could be. I will tell you right now, there is a chance that it's going to be gold someday in the future.

802
00:58:21,088 --> 00:58:25,888
I mean, the nation states recognize gold. It has been used for that in the past.

803
00:58:26,168 --> 00:58:31,268
It's being stockpiled now. And, you know, there is a chance that will be the case.

804
00:58:31,468 --> 00:58:36,068
Well, guess what? That means you're going to have to everybody is going to have to de-peg from the dollar.

805
00:58:36,288 --> 00:58:38,508
That means you're going to have floating currencies right now.

806
00:58:38,588 --> 00:58:42,908
China says they want to do that, but there is no way China can do that.

807
00:58:42,908 --> 00:58:58,748
The chance that China could somehow manage to convince the world that their currency, which has both an off and onshore component to it, could become a world reserve currency, a neutral currency, it's ridiculous.

808
00:58:59,508 --> 00:59:07,628
So there are so many barriers that we have to overcome here in order to go forward from this system right now, which is broken.

809
00:59:07,868 --> 00:59:09,048
This is a broken system.

810
00:59:09,888 --> 00:59:11,508
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

811
00:59:11,508 --> 00:59:16,028
I just brought up this chart that Marty and TFDC shared.

812
00:59:16,128 --> 00:59:17,848
I mean, it's wild when you look at this.

813
00:59:18,008 --> 00:59:23,088
So for those that are not watching the video, it's just China's gold holdings in kilograms.

814
00:59:23,288 --> 00:59:32,248
And I mean, it is pretty stable and then goes ballistic, especially this last couple of years.

815
00:59:32,408 --> 00:59:32,728
It's nuts.

816
00:59:33,348 --> 00:59:35,808
One of the things I'll say about this chart, just leave it up for a minute here.

817
00:59:35,848 --> 00:59:36,028
Sure, sure.

818
00:59:36,108 --> 00:59:36,328
Okay.

819
00:59:36,888 --> 00:59:41,568
Something you need to understand if you are watching this and you see the chart or later you have a chance to look at it.

820
00:59:41,868 --> 00:59:45,428
Yeah, it shows a hockey stick, just like I was discussing with the energy prices.

821
00:59:45,428 --> 00:59:49,288
But what you need to keep in mind here is these are called the warrants.

822
00:59:49,568 --> 00:59:58,788
And so basically what China said is, OK, Shanghai Gold Exchange, I want you to audit and verify and tell the world that we have this much gold.

823
00:59:59,008 --> 01:00:02,708
And it's almost like China is broadcasting.

824
01:00:03,068 --> 01:00:03,748
That's what it is.

825
01:00:03,788 --> 01:00:05,028
They're broadcasting the world.

826
01:00:05,028 --> 01:00:15,868
Hey, look how much gold we got. You know, don't mess with us. We've got gold. But but let's just you know, let's take this conversation to the next level here. Let's just stay with gold then. OK, sure.

827
01:00:15,868 --> 01:00:24,788
How those countries would then settle trade imbalances is through gold.

828
01:00:25,468 --> 01:00:41,008
So first off, if the U.S. ever wanted to go to a gold or Bitcoin standard, the very first thing we'd have to do is the dollar would have to be weakened so dramatically that in order to be pegged properly across international markets.

829
01:00:41,348 --> 01:00:44,908
So that would be a really difficult time for the U.S.

830
01:00:45,288 --> 01:00:50,368
I don't know how in the hell, what would happen to U.S. consumers in a case like that?

831
01:00:50,868 --> 01:00:52,868
You know, we've got ourselves in a real bind here.

832
01:00:52,948 --> 01:00:55,448
I mean, there's no easy solution to this problem.

833
01:00:55,988 --> 01:01:01,808
One thing, you know, that the – and this is like 4D chess, which I'm not very good at.

834
01:01:01,868 --> 01:01:03,588
I can't even play regular chess.

835
01:01:03,668 --> 01:01:07,008
But let's just say that I was good and I was thinking like a 4D chess player.

836
01:01:07,668 --> 01:01:17,688
One of the things I would think about is something that Saylor actually mentioned already once too before, which I actually have thought about this in the past, which, hey, guess what?

837
01:01:18,348 --> 01:01:21,008
These central banks, these nations, they're betting on gold.

838
01:01:21,268 --> 01:01:22,628
They've used it in the past.

839
01:01:22,828 --> 01:01:25,328
Central banks wanted to gold after World War I ended.

840
01:01:25,408 --> 01:01:27,068
They all wanted to go back to the gold standard.

841
01:01:27,528 --> 01:01:28,268
They attempted.

842
01:01:28,428 --> 01:01:32,068
There was a strong push to try and work that out at the end of World War II.

843
01:01:32,068 --> 01:01:39,068
But the problem is you almost need to escape the system.

844
01:01:39,248 --> 01:01:50,548
If the U.S. actually did do what I said and just bought all the Bitcoin they could and basically gave the bird to the rest of the world, that this is the new settlement layer.

845
01:01:50,728 --> 01:01:55,948
Because let's say portable, divisible, durable, fungible, verifiable, scarce, seizure, that's money.

846
01:01:56,368 --> 01:01:57,328
Bitcoin's money.

847
01:01:57,708 --> 01:02:01,688
And we can talk later about these jackasses that don't think it's money.

848
01:02:02,148 --> 01:02:04,528
Bitcoin's not a data transmission device.

849
01:02:04,648 --> 01:02:05,428
It's money.

850
01:02:05,868 --> 01:02:11,088
It says in the first line of the white paper, peer-to-peer cash, electronic cash.

851
01:02:11,128 --> 01:02:11,568
It's money.

852
01:02:11,568 --> 01:02:14,708
So anyway, God, I'm starting to rant.

853
01:02:15,168 --> 01:02:18,328
So anyway, just getting back to that subject, what I'm talking about, what am I saying?

854
01:02:18,668 --> 01:02:30,968
I'm just saying that it makes sense to have a protocol or a base neutral reserve asset like Bitcoin because the problem with gold is nobody trusts it.

855
01:02:31,328 --> 01:02:32,488
Nobody knows how much gold.

856
01:02:32,688 --> 01:02:35,468
Now, China just said, you've got that chart still up there on that thing.

857
01:02:35,728 --> 01:02:36,928
They said, this is the gold we've got.

858
01:02:36,988 --> 01:02:37,948
Nobody really knows that.

859
01:02:38,348 --> 01:02:41,248
And not only that, tomorrow, you still don't know that.

860
01:02:41,248 --> 01:02:49,588
Because as soon as somebody walks out of a vault or whatever aspect we're using here, again, people don't know what you really hold.

861
01:02:50,028 --> 01:02:51,388
So what was the solution?

862
01:02:51,388 --> 01:03:03,828
You know, before they used to have these damn vaults like under London and in New York, and they would move gold physically from one side of the vault to the other to designate that somebody new had acquired gold.

863
01:03:04,008 --> 01:03:07,648
Hey, France, you've got more gold now. Let's move it over to your side.

864
01:03:07,688 --> 01:03:09,288
And they use these stupid looking carts.

865
01:03:10,048 --> 01:03:16,708
Well, Bitcoin is electronic digital cash moving at the speed of fucking light.

866
01:03:16,888 --> 01:03:18,848
And it settles forever.

867
01:03:19,308 --> 01:03:24,708
Bitcoin is the transmission level that they should be using for these trade settlements.

868
01:03:25,148 --> 01:03:26,688
And the world just hasn't figured out.

869
01:03:26,768 --> 01:03:28,588
That's another reason why we're early.

870
01:03:28,988 --> 01:03:31,428
The world doesn't understand anything I'm talking about right now.

871
01:03:31,528 --> 01:03:32,728
TradFi, they're clueless.

872
01:03:33,148 --> 01:03:35,608
You talk to these central banks, they would just stare at you.

873
01:03:35,988 --> 01:03:39,308
There's nothing going on behind their eyeballs when you talk about Bitcoin.

874
01:03:39,768 --> 01:03:40,708
So we are early.

875
01:03:41,268 --> 01:03:43,828
Now, I don't think the U.S. is going to do that.

876
01:03:43,828 --> 01:03:49,168
I really don't because I haven't seen any indication that they are going to get off their ass and start buying sats.

877
01:03:49,308 --> 01:03:52,128
But it's just something to put in the back of your mind.

878
01:03:53,148 --> 01:03:55,408
I agree with you because that's the thing.

879
01:03:55,448 --> 01:04:07,688
If you work out this game theory and Matthew Pines has kind of talked about this extensively and a lot of the folks at BPI who I think have done a really excellent job working through some of the game theory scenarios of this.

880
01:04:08,728 --> 01:04:11,748
It's like who owns the most gold?

881
01:04:11,748 --> 01:04:20,368
Well, it's, you know, China and Russia and, you know, our kind of, quote, adversaries own a ton of gold.

882
01:04:20,468 --> 01:04:21,888
I mean, many, many tons of gold.

883
01:04:21,968 --> 01:04:22,328
But you know what I mean?

884
01:04:22,368 --> 01:04:24,108
They own a lot of gold.

885
01:04:24,628 --> 01:04:25,508
Or so they say.

886
01:04:25,728 --> 01:04:30,728
Because, again, no one's dropping their pants and letting, you know, somebody else check, right?

887
01:04:30,908 --> 01:04:34,688
They could be tungsten, you know, bars wrapped in some gold leaf for all we know.

888
01:04:34,788 --> 01:04:35,108
Who knows?

889
01:04:35,188 --> 01:04:39,808
But let's say they own the gold that they actually, or they actually own the gold that they say they do.

890
01:04:39,808 --> 01:04:45,828
and let's say you know the u.s owns the gold that we say we do you know wink wink and still

891
01:04:45,828 --> 01:04:50,108
no fort knox audit as you said okay we'll see maybe it'll come you know maybe who knows

892
01:04:50,108 --> 01:04:55,988
the u.s both the government from all the bitcoin it's confiscated even though it hasn't started

893
01:04:55,988 --> 01:05:02,608
buying any yet but the confiscated bitcoin that it has the corporations in the u.s and individuals

894
01:05:02,608 --> 01:05:09,408
in the u.s own i forget what the exact number is it's something like you know like 40 or 50 percent

895
01:05:09,408 --> 01:05:17,388
Like it's a huge, huge percentage of the overall Bitcoin ownership is in some way tied to the United States of America.

896
01:05:18,028 --> 01:05:30,988
So if you were going to want to designate a new neutral reserve asset that was going to most advantage you and most disadvantage your adversaries, it wouldn't be gold for the United States.

897
01:05:30,988 --> 01:05:36,108
it would be Bitcoin. But whether or not they actually do that, because as you said,

898
01:05:36,748 --> 01:05:43,648
that would require a massive debasement event to be able, if they actually went full bore and said,

899
01:05:43,728 --> 01:05:49,848
we're going to start printing money to buy Bitcoin, basically. Even though that may sound

900
01:05:49,848 --> 01:05:55,928
cool in a lot of ways, that may signal that we're about to enter a very strange and tumultuous

901
01:05:55,928 --> 01:05:58,848
period. I think we already are in it. You mentioned the fourth turning earlier,

902
01:05:58,848 --> 01:06:03,968
and I've been mulling around this this thesis that I should probably actually just put pen to paper

903
01:06:03,968 --> 01:06:08,748
and write but it's you know it started with the fourth you know the idea of the fourth turning

904
01:06:08,748 --> 01:06:14,768
and then I was I was I learned about chondratyative waves and that's kind of a different cyclical

905
01:06:14,768 --> 01:06:18,748
theory but it's economic growth and stagnation that's driven by technological evolutions it was

906
01:06:18,748 --> 01:06:24,528
a Russian guy who came up with this theory and then you know the the Soviets uh the Soviets

907
01:06:24,528 --> 01:06:30,368
or killed him basically because it didn't speak very nicely of socialism,

908
01:06:30,588 --> 01:06:33,708
communism, and it spoke very well of capitalism.

909
01:06:34,408 --> 01:06:36,548
And then you've got these other theories.

910
01:06:36,688 --> 01:06:38,908
You've got things like anticyclosis,

911
01:06:39,348 --> 01:06:43,848
which is this 2,000-year-old theory from a Greek philosopher, Polybius,

912
01:06:43,848 --> 01:06:54,068
where you basically go through monarchy to tyranny to aristocracy to oligarchy

913
01:06:54,068 --> 01:06:57,268
to democracy to aglocracy, which is mob rule.

914
01:06:57,428 --> 01:06:58,868
And then you start over again.

915
01:06:58,868 --> 01:07:01,988
And that goes right back to a strong man.

916
01:07:02,508 --> 01:07:04,048
And it just keeps repeating.

917
01:07:04,388 --> 01:07:06,348
You've got Ray Dalio's long-term debt cycles.

918
01:07:07,308 --> 01:07:08,288
All of these things.

919
01:07:08,328 --> 01:07:10,128
You've got global reserve currency cycles.

920
01:07:10,668 --> 01:07:13,068
All of these different things, and the fourth turning as well,

921
01:07:13,408 --> 01:07:14,988
they're all kind of coming to a head.

922
01:07:15,128 --> 01:07:18,668
All of these cycles are converging right about now

923
01:07:18,668 --> 01:07:20,228
and in these next few years.

924
01:07:20,228 --> 01:07:28,228
On top of that, you have AI, which is a techno-industrial revolution, the likes of which we have never seen before.

925
01:07:28,668 --> 01:07:29,688
And you have Bitcoin.

926
01:07:30,288 --> 01:07:32,968
All of these things happening at once.

927
01:07:33,748 --> 01:07:37,588
What does that mean for the next few years, the next decade or two?

928
01:07:38,208 --> 01:07:40,148
Probably means things are going to get really crazy.

929
01:07:40,788 --> 01:07:42,788
It means things are going to get insanely wild.

930
01:07:42,968 --> 01:07:45,708
And you need to have some sort of a lifeboat.

931
01:07:45,808 --> 01:07:49,268
You need to have a shield to make it through that storm unscathed.

932
01:07:49,268 --> 01:08:11,928
And in my view, that's Bitcoin. And I think in your view as well. But people need to be prepared that, yeah, I'm very optimistic and bullish in the future and very hopeful. But in the short term, things may get very strange. They may get very violent. And there's going to be an incredible amount of unrest. We're already seeing it, right? And it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better, in my opinion.

933
01:08:11,928 --> 01:08:33,068
It's going to be a shit show next three to five years. It'll be a shit show. And, you know, the thing is that we are in it. We are in a race right now. This is an arms race. We are in a superpower arms race between us and China. And it's all on AI. And it revolves around three things. Power, chips, infrastructure.

934
01:08:33,068 --> 01:08:57,948
And guess what? You know, we're both ahead and behind. China is building out nuclear power plants at about eight times cheaper than we can produce them. They've got hydroelectric that is just off the chart and they are invested heavily in it. It's the chips that they're struggling with. And you know what? Taiwan, TSMC, that chip factory is like 80 nautical miles across the Taiwan Strait.

935
01:08:57,948 --> 01:09:03,748
I mentioned the other day in my F-18, light that thing in burners, and I could be there in like probably nine minutes.

936
01:09:04,468 --> 01:09:07,408
And that is an issue.

937
01:09:07,828 --> 01:09:09,268
And then the other thing is the infrastructure.

938
01:09:09,548 --> 01:09:12,668
Now, you know, this administration, I mean, everybody fucks up.

939
01:09:13,068 --> 01:09:16,828
You know, I mean, I can't stand either one of these parties.

940
01:09:17,068 --> 01:09:18,088
I don't like politicians.

941
01:09:18,748 --> 01:09:22,008
But I will say that this administration, they pivoted.

942
01:09:22,088 --> 01:09:25,808
They went from we're going to save $2 trillion to fuck it.

943
01:09:25,908 --> 01:09:27,248
We're not going to save anything.

944
01:09:27,248 --> 01:09:32,648
And they're not. They're going to spend the exact same amount Biden did in his last year in office.

945
01:09:32,748 --> 01:09:36,048
They're going to have two trillion dollars in deficit this year. So they're not doing jack shit.

946
01:09:36,528 --> 01:09:44,088
But the thing is that they are pivoting and they have made a conscious decision to grow their way out of this and how they're doing that.

947
01:09:44,148 --> 01:09:50,689
And they're betting big is on a eye. And you can see it. They're telling you they're they're telegraphing what they want.

948
01:09:50,689 --> 01:09:57,628
Why do you think they're pushing why Besant and Trump are all over the top of the Fed right now and why they want those rates lower?

949
01:09:57,808 --> 01:09:59,728
It's not just our interest expense.

950
01:09:59,908 --> 01:10:03,408
They also want to build out the infrastructure to go forward.

951
01:10:03,548 --> 01:10:07,728
We need so much in this country right now if we are going to become the AI superpower.

952
01:10:08,488 --> 01:10:10,288
And it's a sharp race.

953
01:10:10,468 --> 01:10:12,928
I mean, it'll be over, I'll bet, within three to five years.

954
01:10:13,228 --> 01:10:15,768
And, you know, I want the U.S. to be out on top.

955
01:10:15,848 --> 01:10:17,388
I want us to be number one on this.

956
01:10:18,088 --> 01:10:21,168
And I think that, you know, yeah, I just said it's going to be a shit show.

957
01:10:21,248 --> 01:10:21,728
But you know what?

958
01:10:21,748 --> 01:10:27,928
The good news is if you get through this period of time, every one of you out there, you ought to just look around.

959
01:10:28,008 --> 01:10:32,408
You might be living in the most abundant world that you can possibly imagine.

960
01:10:33,068 --> 01:10:35,388
And it could be like paradise.

961
01:10:35,388 --> 01:10:40,388
And we might actually finally solve the constant battle.

962
01:10:40,388 --> 01:10:50,248
You know, reading history, I was reading about the Assyrian Empire last night around 700, 600 B.C., and I won't bore people here, I promise.

963
01:10:50,488 --> 01:10:54,628
As one does, a little light reading at night with a little whiskey, yeah?

964
01:10:55,348 --> 01:10:57,928
Hey, you know, as an aside, tell Carla this, too.

965
01:10:58,368 --> 01:11:06,288
You know, a lot of times people think I'm just talking, you know, like an old warrior or something to guys and stuff like that.

966
01:11:06,288 --> 01:11:06,689
But I'm not.

967
01:11:06,748 --> 01:11:07,588
I'm talking to women, too.

968
01:11:07,668 --> 01:11:08,748
Women can be warriors.

969
01:11:08,748 --> 01:11:33,448
You know, you look at the Scythians. They were like warrior women. In fact, you know, they were tremendous. I almost said horsemen, horsewomen. And they could shoot, throw a javelin. They could handle a sword, short combat. And here's the thing that most people don't know. And this was written about by Hippocrates and Herodotus and then other historians.

970
01:11:33,448 --> 01:11:39,388
So I believe it's true. And that is that they had to remain virgins.

971
01:11:39,488 --> 01:11:43,088
They could not marry until they had killed an enemy in combat.

972
01:11:44,048 --> 01:11:50,808
And so can you imagine this woman riding along on a horse out there on the steps and she's, you know, she's got somebody next to her and she wants to marry him.

973
01:11:50,868 --> 01:11:55,208
In fact, she just wants to mount him. And basically she can't until she kills somebody.

974
01:11:55,388 --> 01:11:57,968
She's going to be a really pissed off person to meet on the battlefield.

975
01:11:58,228 --> 01:12:00,088
But getting back to the Assyrians.

976
01:12:00,088 --> 01:12:04,148
That's amazing. Now I need to look deeper into that because that's fascinating.

977
01:12:04,908 --> 01:12:11,208
These Assyrians, you know, if you read history, it's a constant, constant. It never stops. And they had written language then, too.

978
01:12:11,708 --> 01:12:24,528
It's an endless series of battles, fighting, killing, raping, pillage, plunder, destroy cities, everything you can imagine, burning things to the ground, every person slavery or executed.

979
01:12:24,528 --> 01:12:31,968
it. Ramsey, too, in Egypt brought home 100,000 slaves from one campaign. It's been constant

980
01:12:31,968 --> 01:12:37,428
struggle and fighting. I've always hoped that Bitcoin somehow would get us out of this

981
01:12:37,428 --> 01:12:45,008
constant loop of fighting. And maybe, you know, if AI really does come to fruition,

982
01:12:45,008 --> 01:12:50,228
and it is what I said it could be, you know, the money it will be using will be digital.

983
01:12:50,228 --> 01:12:53,628
It sure as hell isn't going to go down to Fifth Third Bank and open up an account.

984
01:12:53,628 --> 01:13:10,528
It's going to be digital money. And I want it to be Bitcoin. Now, you know, it may be stable coins. It could be, you know, some other it won't be a shit coin. It will be something along those lines. But, you know, this could be a great world going forward. You just have to get through this tier this period right now.

985
01:13:10,528 --> 01:13:15,928
I agree with that completely. And it's, you know, this is a, this is an opportunity to,

986
01:13:15,988 --> 01:13:22,488
and no matter, no matter what, what age you are, it's like, we are so lucky to be alive at this

987
01:13:22,488 --> 01:13:27,148
time when Bitcoin exists and be this early in it. You know, I, I, you know, I have a son,

988
01:13:27,148 --> 01:13:32,548
he's under two years old. I mean, in 20 years, you know, when he's into the workforce, I don't

989
01:13:32,548 --> 01:13:35,668
know if he's going to, I don't know if he's going to go to college or what, I have no idea if that'll

990
01:13:35,668 --> 01:13:40,348
even really, that'll even look the same 20 years from now, you know, probably, probably not. Um,

991
01:13:40,708 --> 01:13:47,208
but it's going to be wild for him to look back and say, Oh my God, like my parents were around,

992
01:13:47,308 --> 01:13:51,588
you know, in the early days of Bitcoin, like this is, if you are here right now, if you are

993
01:13:51,588 --> 01:13:55,768
stumbled across this podcast, or if you are a regular listener, thank you very much. If you're

994
01:13:55,768 --> 01:13:59,308
here on Noster right now, you're really early. So cheers to everybody who's out there listening on

995
01:13:59,308 --> 01:14:04,968
Noster and who is zapping this, who is zapping me Bitcoin on, on zap.stream or primal or fountain

996
01:14:04,968 --> 01:14:06,408
or Amethyst or any of these clients,

997
01:14:06,468 --> 01:14:06,968
like that's amazing.

998
01:14:07,008 --> 01:14:09,648
You're sending me a little tiny chunk of 21 million.

999
01:14:09,828 --> 01:14:10,648
Thank you for that.

1000
01:14:11,168 --> 01:14:12,568
But if you're here, you're early.

1001
01:14:12,828 --> 01:14:13,648
You're so early.

1002
01:14:14,208 --> 01:14:16,388
We get to be here at the start of all of this.

1003
01:14:16,788 --> 01:14:18,588
And it is going to be, I think,

1004
01:14:19,008 --> 01:14:20,308
in the long arc of time,

1005
01:14:20,788 --> 01:14:21,968
it's going to be incredible.

1006
01:14:22,348 --> 01:14:24,548
It's going to be ushering, as you mentioned,

1007
01:14:24,668 --> 01:14:26,588
an age of true abundance.

1008
01:14:27,268 --> 01:14:28,808
You know, Jeff Booth talks about this all the time

1009
01:14:28,808 --> 01:14:32,148
better than I or really anyone else ever can.

1010
01:14:32,689 --> 01:14:34,408
You know, technology is deflationary.

1011
01:14:34,968 --> 01:14:36,268
Everything should be getting cheaper.

1012
01:14:36,348 --> 01:14:37,568
Everything should be getting more abundant.

1013
01:14:37,748 --> 01:14:41,728
One other thing he says, you know, abundance in money creates scarcity in everything else.

1014
01:14:41,888 --> 01:14:43,748
Scarcity in money creates abundance in everything else.

1015
01:14:43,808 --> 01:14:46,768
We have a chance to live in a really incredible future.

1016
01:14:47,228 --> 01:14:48,728
Some of us are living in it right now.

1017
01:14:48,848 --> 01:14:55,928
And that's the incredible things that you can make the decision to start saving the value of your time and your energy in Bitcoin right at this moment.

1018
01:14:56,148 --> 01:14:59,828
And you can start to already enjoy the benefits of that abundant future.

1019
01:15:00,148 --> 01:15:00,928
You know, you don't have to wait.

1020
01:15:01,028 --> 01:15:02,168
Like the future is already here.

1021
01:15:02,168 --> 01:15:03,668
It's just not evenly distributed yet.

1022
01:15:03,668 --> 01:15:30,748
Yeah, I love that. I do. I love that. And yeah, and Jeff, you know, Jeff Booth's a smart guy. He's a lot smarter than I am. But I do agree with you 100%. And one of the things I want to say is, you know, we're talking about Bitcoin and both of us, I think, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but for me, Bitcoin is probably the single most important thing that I want to succeed.

1023
01:15:31,508 --> 01:15:33,668
I cannot imagine it failing.

1024
01:15:34,308 --> 01:15:36,248
For one thing, I have all my wealth in Bitcoin.

1025
01:15:36,988 --> 01:15:43,068
Two, I'm counting on that as you are for a legacy to not just my children but my grandchildren.

1026
01:15:44,068 --> 01:15:45,548
It cannot fail.

1027
01:15:46,588 --> 01:15:53,189
You know, when Bitcoin started in the first week of January 2009, you ran that protocol.

1028
01:15:53,189 --> 01:16:08,692
So Bitcoin is a protocol and a network The protocol discusses things like the hard cap the difficulty adjustment The network is basically us And when I say us I mean running a node So the network

1029
01:16:08,812 --> 01:16:14,892
think of the network as a node. When he first started that and Hal Finney, even himself,

1030
01:16:15,052 --> 01:16:22,692
when he ran Bitcoin, the protocol, and by the way, when Satoshi put it out, it was version 0.1

1031
01:16:22,692 --> 01:16:26,912
of that software implementation to run the protocol.

1032
01:16:27,772 --> 01:16:32,572
So Hal ran that on a computer, just a PC like this.

1033
01:16:33,072 --> 01:16:38,672
It was a Windows run, and it was a spare PC that he had.

1034
01:16:38,892 --> 01:16:39,772
So he's running Bitcoin.

1035
01:16:39,772 --> 01:16:41,092
And here's another thing.

1036
01:16:42,112 --> 01:16:48,632
You mined, and you had a wallet and a node all on the computer.

1037
01:16:49,272 --> 01:16:50,212
You did it all.

1038
01:16:51,232 --> 01:16:52,432
Now, why am I saying this?

1039
01:16:52,432 --> 01:16:59,072
because Satoshi's never envisioned where we would go today.

1040
01:16:59,612 --> 01:17:06,692
He did not understand that there would only be 23,000 reachable nodes today

1041
01:17:06,692 --> 01:17:10,432
with maybe two to three million hardcore Bitcoiners

1042
01:17:10,432 --> 01:17:13,212
that are really just maxis like myself and you.

1043
01:17:14,312 --> 01:17:21,172
I think if he could speak, I think that he would be appalled to know that

1044
01:17:21,172 --> 01:17:26,912
because the reason you run a node is to strengthen the network,

1045
01:17:27,632 --> 01:17:32,212
to build the health of the network, and to be a sovereign individual.

1046
01:17:32,492 --> 01:17:33,952
Those three things are key.

1047
01:17:34,892 --> 01:17:37,592
So I am telling you right now, if you're listening to me

1048
01:17:37,592 --> 01:17:39,612
and you've made any money in this last cycle,

1049
01:17:40,152 --> 01:17:42,472
and you know I've made money in this last cycle,

1050
01:17:42,572 --> 01:17:43,712
and if you haven't, you're an idiot.

1051
01:17:44,212 --> 01:17:48,432
So if you've made money in this last cycle, get off your ass like I did.

1052
01:17:49,112 --> 01:17:50,292
You get a node.

1053
01:17:50,672 --> 01:17:53,972
If you're like me, an older boomer or something, get one that I did.

1054
01:17:54,092 --> 01:17:57,672
You just plug it in the damn wall and it starts syncing up with the network.

1055
01:17:58,212 --> 01:17:59,072
Run a node.

1056
01:17:59,632 --> 01:18:01,212
And I will tell you something else.

1057
01:18:02,352 --> 01:18:11,812
That software implementation that I mentioned, how to run the protocol, Bitcoin Core, and don't get confused.

1058
01:18:11,812 --> 01:18:13,612
I'm not talking about the Bitcoin protocol.

1059
01:18:13,612 --> 01:18:18,572
I'm talking about the developers that maintain the software to run the node.

1060
01:18:18,792 --> 01:18:20,652
That is the default software.

1061
01:18:21,512 --> 01:18:23,772
But there are other ones available to run.

1062
01:18:24,052 --> 01:18:24,952
I run Nots.

1063
01:18:25,252 --> 01:18:32,912
I run Nots because I believe that Bitcoin Core is not aligned with my values as a Bitcoiner.

1064
01:18:33,512 --> 01:18:40,652
And I want to be a sovereign individual, and I will not participate in some of the things that Bitcoin Core is pushing.

1065
01:18:40,832 --> 01:18:41,572
I just won't.

1066
01:18:41,572 --> 01:18:44,692
and so you have a responsibility.

1067
01:18:44,992 --> 01:18:46,372
If you want this thing to survive,

1068
01:18:46,752 --> 01:18:48,652
you've got to run a node first and foremost.

1069
01:18:49,572 --> 01:18:51,412
Get a hardware wallet

1070
01:18:51,412 --> 01:18:54,332
where you can actually connect the node to the wallet.

1071
01:18:54,532 --> 01:18:55,612
If you don't know how to do that,

1072
01:18:55,692 --> 01:18:56,832
go to BT Sessions,

1073
01:18:57,012 --> 01:19:00,792
type in how to connect Sparrow to the network,

1074
01:19:01,052 --> 01:19:01,692
use your node.

1075
01:19:02,032 --> 01:19:03,832
If you can't do that, go to Matthew Cratters.

1076
01:19:04,032 --> 01:19:05,052
Actually, go to both of them

1077
01:19:05,052 --> 01:19:07,472
and if you're confused about what I'm discussing

1078
01:19:07,472 --> 01:19:09,152
regarding core versus knots,

1079
01:19:09,732 --> 01:19:10,672
then get off your ass,

1080
01:19:11,172 --> 01:19:12,312
Start doing the same thing.

1081
01:19:12,372 --> 01:19:23,912
Go to both of those sites, especially Matthew Cratter, and start understanding what Nats is about and why it's so important that you remain a sovereign individual and you support this network that we all want to be here for the next hundred years.

1082
01:19:24,692 --> 01:19:27,772
And if you do that, then we've got a fighting chance.

1083
01:19:27,792 --> 01:19:28,852
And if you don't, we're fucked.

1084
01:19:29,232 --> 01:19:30,932
I'll tell you right now, we are fucked.

1085
01:19:31,272 --> 01:19:32,492
Make sure you understand that.

1086
01:19:32,492 --> 01:19:39,972
You've got, you know, 95 percent of all the Bitcoin propagated on the blocks came out of six, six.

1087
01:19:40,412 --> 01:19:43,672
Oh, that's six is hard. I'm not you know, I got to take off my shoes.

1088
01:19:43,792 --> 01:19:47,932
The reason they called me Jethro in the Navy was from that old TV show, Jethro Bodine.

1089
01:19:48,032 --> 01:19:51,992
So, you know, I got to take off my shoes. I'm going to count past five or six.

1090
01:19:52,072 --> 01:19:55,492
How many is this? Whatever. Six, six mining pools.

1091
01:19:55,652 --> 01:19:59,472
There's six nodes, six that are putting out all this data.

1092
01:19:59,952 --> 01:20:00,812
That's not right.

1093
01:20:01,132 --> 01:20:02,072
We got something.

1094
01:20:02,232 --> 01:20:03,552
Something's really fucked up here.

1095
01:20:04,112 --> 01:20:07,372
This mining centralization is a problem going forward.

1096
01:20:07,872 --> 01:20:12,292
You know, you've got so much hash rate concentrated within these mining pools.

1097
01:20:12,612 --> 01:20:21,172
You can go on to the mempool space, follow it along, and you can see blocks sometimes six to eight long, all mined by foundry.

1098
01:20:21,332 --> 01:20:22,372
Foundry, foundry, foundry.

1099
01:20:22,612 --> 01:20:23,872
That's not healthy.

1100
01:20:24,552 --> 01:20:31,012
So run a node, and the reason I say that is because in the future, you're going to have to make some pretty important decisions as a Bitcoiner.

1101
01:20:31,352 --> 01:20:33,212
And guess who gets to vote on those decisions?

1102
01:20:33,672 --> 01:20:34,492
It's the nodes.

1103
01:20:35,572 --> 01:20:36,752
OK, that's enough rant.

1104
01:20:36,752 --> 01:20:37,592
No, no, no.

1105
01:20:37,672 --> 01:20:49,312
I think it's an important topic, and I think it's important that people understand like what – there is a difference between like economic – how am I going to say this?

1106
01:20:49,312 --> 01:20:57,032
lynn alden um and uh and moneyball did a great piece on like how bitcoin consensus actually

1107
01:20:57,032 --> 01:21:02,272
works and like what actually happens in hard fork soft fork scenarios i i had them i had them both

1108
01:21:02,272 --> 01:21:05,532
on the show to talk about it because they're so much more knowledgeable about it than i am

1109
01:21:05,532 --> 01:21:10,992
and that is really important thing to understand is like that you know no one entity whether it's

1110
01:21:10,992 --> 01:21:15,872
the miners whether it's the nodes whether it's the whales that hold a ton of bitcoin whether it's the

1111
01:21:15,872 --> 01:21:18,572
the podcasters and the influencers or in,

1112
01:21:18,752 --> 01:21:20,152
or any bad actors that are out there,

1113
01:21:20,672 --> 01:21:22,712
everybody has a different level of influence somewhere.

1114
01:21:23,012 --> 01:21:23,372
Right.

1115
01:21:23,452 --> 01:21:26,112
And it's important to understand the interplay of all of that.

1116
01:21:26,192 --> 01:21:28,612
If you haven't read this piece that they put out,

1117
01:21:28,652 --> 01:21:28,812
I can,

1118
01:21:28,892 --> 01:21:29,912
I can link it in the show notes.

1119
01:21:29,992 --> 01:21:30,112
It's,

1120
01:21:30,172 --> 01:21:30,912
it's a really good one.

1121
01:21:31,252 --> 01:21:33,372
You can listen to the episode that we did together too,

1122
01:21:33,392 --> 01:21:34,152
where they kind of go in,

1123
01:21:34,192 --> 01:21:35,832
in depth in a lot of these things.

1124
01:21:36,352 --> 01:21:39,692
But the mining pool centralization piece is a,

1125
01:21:39,692 --> 01:21:41,672
I think the really concerning one.

1126
01:21:41,792 --> 01:21:45,192
I was really happy to see also just on mining hardware centralization.

1127
01:21:45,192 --> 01:21:49,712
basically all of it coming from China in any meaningful volume.

1128
01:21:50,152 --> 01:21:53,052
And now Jack Dorsey with their new proto rig.

1129
01:21:53,512 --> 01:21:55,092
I think that's fantastic.

1130
01:21:55,452 --> 01:22:00,192
I also think that the movement towards more people solo mining at home is wonderful.

1131
01:22:00,352 --> 01:22:01,932
I think the bid axes are fantastic.

1132
01:22:02,612 --> 01:22:07,752
I think that this is all of these things that, you know, yeah, maybe it's a, you view it as a lottery ticket, right?

1133
01:22:07,772 --> 01:22:09,652
But you're still mining Bitcoin, right?

1134
01:22:09,772 --> 01:22:10,892
I got one back there.

1135
01:22:11,072 --> 01:22:11,292
Yeah.

1136
01:22:11,412 --> 01:22:11,812
Right now.

1137
01:22:11,812 --> 01:22:12,372
It's still something.

1138
01:22:12,852 --> 01:22:13,132
Yeah, yeah.

1139
01:22:13,132 --> 01:22:13,472
See it?

1140
01:22:13,592 --> 01:22:14,412
It's in the picture.

1141
01:22:14,412 --> 01:22:15,732
It's there, right there.

1142
01:22:15,812 --> 01:22:17,892
It's actually mining Bitcoin while we're talking.

1143
01:22:18,512 --> 01:22:19,372
So I get it.

1144
01:22:19,392 --> 01:22:19,712
It's amazing.

1145
01:22:19,732 --> 01:22:20,652
I get it 100%.

1146
01:22:20,652 --> 01:22:21,792
And I will agree with you.

1147
01:22:21,832 --> 01:22:31,332
But the thing that people need to understand is that when you see that little bit X back there or if I have a mining rig somewhere that I'm working, that thing is a hash.

1148
01:22:31,412 --> 01:22:32,152
It's hashing.

1149
01:22:32,392 --> 01:22:33,812
It sends out hash rate.

1150
01:22:33,812 --> 01:22:51,252
The problem is that with the current software that mining pools are using, all the miners themselves, even the large organizations, maybe a guy that's got a thousand miners, all they're doing is they're sending their hash rate to these pools.

1151
01:22:52,032 --> 01:22:52,912
That's it.

1152
01:22:53,212 --> 01:22:54,592
They're not building the templates.

1153
01:22:54,872 --> 01:22:59,432
They're not exercising any power here because the power is in the template.

1154
01:22:59,432 --> 01:23:03,552
The template is where you get to decide what am I going to include here in a transaction?

1155
01:23:03,812 --> 01:23:33,052
And so it's not just a node. All of these small miners, you should have your own node. I'm talking if you've got 10 miners, 100 miners, whatever, get your own node. I personally would run Datum and use that to send my hash rate either to Ocean or build my own template, somebody that is morally and ethically aligned with what I feel Bitcoin is and where it can go in the future.

1156
01:23:33,052 --> 01:23:42,812
And remember, I've already said Bitcoin for me is money. It's not anything else. It's not JPEGs or any other jackass shit. It's money. And that's what it is.

1157
01:23:42,812 --> 01:23:52,332
yeah i what i love about bitcoin most i think is that uh bitcoin benefits from all of us acting in

1158
01:23:52,332 --> 01:23:59,432
our own best interest right it benefits from all of us being selfish and making subjective value

1159
01:23:59,432 --> 01:24:03,092
judgments about what is most important to us and our stack because we are going to do whatever it

1160
01:24:03,092 --> 01:24:07,112
takes to preserve that and i think something that gets lost in a lot of these conversations is

1161
01:24:07,112 --> 01:24:11,272
especially when people are pointing back and forth and saying this person wants to ruin bitcoin no

1162
01:24:11,272 --> 01:24:14,012
that person wants to ruin Bitcoin. Well, this person doesn't understand Bitcoin. Well, no,

1163
01:24:14,052 --> 01:24:18,212
that person doesn't understand Bitcoin. I think what's lost in that is that at the end of the day,

1164
01:24:18,212 --> 01:24:23,192
most of these people who are arguing back and forth deeply care about Bitcoin. Are there perhaps

1165
01:24:23,192 --> 01:24:28,232
some bad actors in there who are CIA plants or something who wanted to stabilize this? Perhaps.

1166
01:24:28,332 --> 01:24:32,392
I don't know why the CIA would really want to at this point with the strategic interest that America

1167
01:24:32,392 --> 01:24:37,312
has in Bitcoin, but okay, let's say that there are. But by and large, when Bitcoiners are arguing

1168
01:24:37,312 --> 01:24:44,212
about stuff, it's important for us to remember that we all want Bitcoin to win, right? And I

1169
01:24:44,212 --> 01:24:48,132
think that it's healthy that we have these debates and that we have these debates out in the public

1170
01:24:48,132 --> 01:24:53,932
because it's not happening behind closed doors. It's happening right out there in the public

1171
01:24:53,932 --> 01:24:59,652
square. And what the amazing thing about the internet is that even a pleb can have their

1172
01:24:59,652 --> 01:25:05,352
voice heard in this debate because you can write one banger tweet or one banger post on Noster

1173
01:25:05,352 --> 01:25:07,572
and that can reach a lot of people.

1174
01:25:08,212 --> 01:25:16,352
So there is no more one or let's say centralized broadcasting of ideas.

1175
01:25:16,852 --> 01:25:20,172
This is a free market for ideas that we all get to compete in.

1176
01:25:20,752 --> 01:25:23,712
And at the end of the day, yeah, I couldn't agree more.

1177
01:25:23,712 --> 01:25:24,252
Run a node.

1178
01:25:25,752 --> 01:25:28,452
People are going to hate me for this and say that I'm a terrible person.

1179
01:25:28,932 --> 01:25:30,312
I still run Bitcoin Core.

1180
01:25:30,452 --> 01:25:33,472
I've run an older version of it for a while.

1181
01:25:33,472 --> 01:25:37,112
probably not going to update it for a while either i think a lot of people won't because

1182
01:25:37,112 --> 01:25:42,432
well i don't i don't care to um have no plans to update it to version 30 that's okay it's my node

1183
01:25:42,432 --> 01:25:47,812
i can do whatever i want with it everyone can do whatever they want with their node right and you

1184
01:25:47,812 --> 01:25:52,512
know at the end of the day it's like i know i want what's best for bitcoin you won't want what's best

1185
01:25:52,512 --> 01:25:55,952
for bitcoin every bitcoiner that i meet at a conference and get a chance to have a beer with

1186
01:25:55,952 --> 01:26:01,992
wants what's best for bitcoin the fact that we maybe have some you know uh some alignment issues

1187
01:26:01,992 --> 01:26:03,632
on what that actually means in practice,

1188
01:26:03,632 --> 01:26:05,112
I think is a great thing

1189
01:26:05,112 --> 01:26:07,992
because ultimately I think it helps us reach a better point

1190
01:26:07,992 --> 01:26:09,292
and it makes Bitcoin stronger.

1191
01:26:09,412 --> 01:26:10,552
That's our immune system.

1192
01:26:10,992 --> 01:26:14,192
You know, Bitcoin's immune system is all of us.

1193
01:26:14,452 --> 01:26:16,012
Like we humans are the immune system.

1194
01:26:16,112 --> 01:26:16,972
Bitcoin doesn't care.

1195
01:26:17,372 --> 01:26:17,932
It's just code.

1196
01:26:18,032 --> 01:26:18,912
It can't have wants.

1197
01:26:18,972 --> 01:26:19,772
It can't have desires.

1198
01:26:20,332 --> 01:26:20,772
We do.

1199
01:26:21,292 --> 01:26:22,452
So what we project,

1200
01:26:22,592 --> 01:26:24,232
like Jeff Booth has said this before too,

1201
01:26:24,272 --> 01:26:24,872
to quote him again,

1202
01:26:25,232 --> 01:26:26,152
we are the network.

1203
01:26:26,812 --> 01:26:28,612
All of us, we are the network.

1204
01:26:28,612 --> 01:26:30,632
That is what makes the Bitcoin network

1205
01:26:30,632 --> 01:26:33,392
is all of us making individual value judgments.

1206
01:26:34,052 --> 01:26:35,232
And I think that's a beautiful thing.

1207
01:26:35,692 --> 01:26:38,752
And so, yeah, I say, yeah, run Nots, run Core,

1208
01:26:38,952 --> 01:26:39,552
run whatever you want.

1209
01:26:39,592 --> 01:26:40,792
There are other implementations too.

1210
01:26:41,392 --> 01:26:42,912
Run whatever you want

1211
01:26:42,912 --> 01:26:44,552
because nobody can tell you what to do.

1212
01:26:45,012 --> 01:26:46,052
That's the beauty of Bitcoin.

1213
01:26:48,212 --> 01:26:49,912
Yes, nobody can tell you what to do.

1214
01:26:50,012 --> 01:26:50,632
And you're right.

1215
01:26:50,632 --> 01:26:52,412
Most Bitcoiners that you meet,

1216
01:26:52,712 --> 01:26:54,572
they're aligned with our goals.

1217
01:26:54,832 --> 01:26:56,952
But I will tell you that there are definitely

1218
01:26:56,952 --> 01:26:58,872
other forces out there

1219
01:26:58,872 --> 01:27:00,452
that are not aligned with our goals.

1220
01:27:00,632 --> 01:27:03,312
And I'm not talking about Bitcoiners.

1221
01:27:03,432 --> 01:27:12,652
I'm talking about, you know, if you look around the world right now, find one central bank anywhere on this planet that would want Bitcoin to succeed.

1222
01:27:14,072 --> 01:27:15,472
I can't think of one.

1223
01:27:16,472 --> 01:27:19,072
Maybe the Czech central bank.

1224
01:27:19,252 --> 01:27:21,592
They had a couple guys who seemed pretty bullish.

1225
01:27:21,772 --> 01:27:24,932
But these are just the base folks in Czech Republic.

1226
01:27:25,172 --> 01:27:28,552
He'll only say that to you when he's in the closet with you and nobody else can hear you.

1227
01:27:28,552 --> 01:27:32,312
So – and think about some of the governments and the vested interests.

1228
01:27:32,472 --> 01:27:35,772
Think about all the politicians that are next to the Cantillion nipple.

1229
01:27:36,712 --> 01:27:36,852
OK?

1230
01:27:36,972 --> 01:27:38,812
Those people don't want us to succeed.

1231
01:27:39,212 --> 01:27:47,892
There are going to be a lot of people that are not going to be pushing for Bitcoin to be successful because they are going to be losers.

1232
01:27:48,912 --> 01:27:57,432
And if you follow again what I was discussing about the idea of constant warfare, that warfare can apply to Bitcoin too.

1233
01:27:57,432 --> 01:28:03,352
We are in a struggle regardless of the adoption that you believe we're seeing.

1234
01:28:04,192 --> 01:28:06,972
We still are in a struggle for the future of Bitcoin.

1235
01:28:07,432 --> 01:28:11,252
You mentioned about Core 30, the new update that's coming out in October.

1236
01:28:11,492 --> 01:28:14,232
I caution anybody that's listening to this, I would not run that.

1237
01:28:15,232 --> 01:28:16,692
And like you said, it's a node.

1238
01:28:16,812 --> 01:28:18,412
You run whatever the fuck you want on it.

1239
01:28:18,472 --> 01:28:19,512
That's the power of a node.

1240
01:28:19,872 --> 01:28:27,252
But I would not run 30 and either run like you're doing that smart or in my case, like I said, I run not.

1241
01:28:27,432 --> 01:28:37,232
But just be aware of the fact that whenever we're in a circle together, we're roasting marshmallows and we're fellow Bitcoiners and we're all just talking to each other.

1242
01:28:37,492 --> 01:28:43,352
There's a world outside of that little campfire circle, and there are many people that do not want Bitcoin to succeed.

1243
01:28:44,772 --> 01:28:47,732
I 1,000 percent agree with that.

1244
01:28:47,732 --> 01:28:50,752
And an important like technical clarification for people is one of the

1245
01:28:50,752 --> 01:28:55,192
beautiful things about Bitcoin's node software is that there are no,

1246
01:28:55,372 --> 01:28:56,932
you can't be pushed an update.

1247
01:28:57,112 --> 01:28:58,612
So you can't know,

1248
01:28:58,652 --> 01:29:01,252
but nobody can just auto push an update to you that you say,

1249
01:29:01,292 --> 01:29:01,532
what the,

1250
01:29:01,612 --> 01:29:01,732
you know,

1251
01:29:01,752 --> 01:29:02,092
what the hell?

1252
01:29:02,112 --> 01:29:02,692
It's not like your,

1253
01:29:02,832 --> 01:29:03,212
you know,

1254
01:29:03,212 --> 01:29:03,652
your iPhone.

1255
01:29:03,752 --> 01:29:03,852
I mean,

1256
01:29:03,872 --> 01:29:05,332
granted you can turn that off on your iPhone too,

1257
01:29:05,392 --> 01:29:08,952
but like they can't just unilaterally push something and say this,

1258
01:29:09,052 --> 01:29:09,632
you're updated.

1259
01:29:09,732 --> 01:29:10,252
Now there you go.

1260
01:29:10,272 --> 01:29:10,932
You have our new rules.

1261
01:29:10,992 --> 01:29:11,092
No,

1262
01:29:11,112 --> 01:29:11,192
no,

1263
01:29:11,192 --> 01:29:11,312
no.

1264
01:29:11,792 --> 01:29:12,372
You can just,

1265
01:29:12,892 --> 01:29:13,912
you can just be lazy.

1266
01:29:13,912 --> 01:29:14,652
Like this is a great,

1267
01:29:14,732 --> 01:29:16,652
one of those great examples where it's like being lazy.

1268
01:29:16,652 --> 01:29:22,352
you can wait and see what happens you can benefit from hindsight and then decide what you want to do

1269
01:29:22,352 --> 01:29:26,692
rather than trying to guess what's going to happen and making a decision that maybe ends up not being

1270
01:29:26,692 --> 01:29:30,232
the right one so that's the great thing you can just sit on your hands continue running your old

1271
01:29:30,232 --> 01:29:34,592
software because all of these software versions must be backwards compatible that's like the you

1272
01:29:34,592 --> 01:29:41,592
know kind of the whole thing right um otherwise like and be lazy the lazy bitcoiner i like this

1273
01:29:41,592 --> 01:29:49,312
it's sometimes being lazy is being smart uh you know what uh but but yeah it's uh yeah what i'm

1274
01:29:49,312 --> 01:29:56,072
oh god well one thing i'll say is that uh eventually you know as these nodes uh continue

1275
01:29:56,072 --> 01:30:02,072
to be built and and there is a huge huge upswing in knots i mean it went from two percent to eight

1276
01:30:02,072 --> 01:30:10,392
for 18 percent in actually 18.5 it just jumped overnight in three months so you know we talk

1277
01:30:10,392 --> 01:30:17,112
cocky stick. It was like this. Now it's boom. And it's not stopping. But eventually these the people

1278
01:30:17,112 --> 01:30:21,012
that are putting out nodes and producing them will have to come with some default program.

1279
01:30:21,772 --> 01:30:27,592
And you at some point right now, most default is core, some version, like you said, and it will

1280
01:30:27,592 --> 01:30:32,672
probably upgrade to maybe core 30 at some point, too. So that's just something to be cautious about.

1281
01:30:32,772 --> 01:30:38,812
I do want to say one thing about you mentioned it yourself. I really like this or you hinted at it,

1282
01:30:38,812 --> 01:30:42,132
The idea that you have to be in consensus with the protocol.

1283
01:30:42,132 --> 01:30:46,892
So when I say I run Notts, it's not like I'm a – there's no soft fork here.

1284
01:30:46,992 --> 01:30:48,312
There's no nonsense like that.

1285
01:30:49,232 --> 01:30:58,352
Notts is basically core software with filtering on it to keep op return from being opened up.

1286
01:30:58,852 --> 01:30:59,492
And I have – whoops.

1287
01:30:59,612 --> 01:31:02,012
I have some reasons why I don't want op return opened up.

1288
01:31:02,152 --> 01:31:03,552
I mean I'm really concerned about it.

1289
01:31:03,652 --> 01:31:05,132
I mean I run a node in my home.

1290
01:31:05,592 --> 01:31:07,792
I don't want any weird shit on my – you know.

1291
01:31:07,792 --> 01:31:20,232
Do you know what a node really is? It's a server. It's like an open relay. It's like Dropbox. It's almost like, have you ever run a server before?

1292
01:31:20,232 --> 01:31:25,272
a server, it means that what, here's what it means. It means that you just took this little

1293
01:31:25,272 --> 01:31:33,152
white box or black box and you turned it into an open portal to anyone in the world who wants to

1294
01:31:33,152 --> 01:31:42,192
upload something into your node and the RAM or disk. And I have real concerns. I don't want anybody

1295
01:31:42,192 --> 01:31:48,472
uploading any weird shit into my computer. I don't want to see anything on my node or anywhere else

1296
01:31:48,472 --> 01:31:56,352
on hardware in my home in that op return section that's beyond what not suppresses and and that's

1297
01:31:56,352 --> 01:32:00,872
about 83 bytes right now and i don't want to see anything beyond that that's just me personally

1298
01:32:00,872 --> 01:32:06,032
yeah and i i think that i think that that's great and everybody should again run whatever

1299
01:32:06,032 --> 01:32:12,072
version that they want yeah and know that there are you know trade-offs to that and ultimately

1300
01:32:12,072 --> 01:32:17,352
it's like you know it's uh it's your node it's so it's your rules what you decide you want to run

1301
01:32:17,352 --> 01:32:22,052
on that what version what implementation and that's that's totally fine and that is separate

1302
01:32:22,052 --> 01:32:28,112
that uh that personal mempool policy is separate from the entire bitcoin consensus layer it's all

1303
01:32:28,112 --> 01:32:31,372
still in consensus that's that's a that's a different story and i think people sometimes

1304
01:32:31,372 --> 01:32:36,412
maybe get that mixed up but but yeah i fully support everybody running whatever the hell

1305
01:32:36,412 --> 01:32:42,412
they want uh and i don't believe that uh you know you you shouldn't do anything you don't want to do

1306
01:32:42,412 --> 01:32:47,332
when it comes to bitcoin that's kind of the whole fucking point bitcoin's fuck you money so feel free

1307
01:32:47,332 --> 01:32:53,212
to say fuck you to anyone you want um and say and say it loud and say it proud uh and at the same

1308
01:32:53,212 --> 01:32:58,412
time i i i want to go back i completely agree with you that it would be naive to assume that there are

1309
01:32:58,412 --> 01:33:06,252
not many different hostile actors trying to destabilize bitcoin and a great way to destabilize

1310
01:33:06,252 --> 01:33:12,492
bitcoin is to cast as much doubt you know fear uncertainty and doubt as you can on all of the

1311
01:33:12,492 --> 01:33:18,612
open source developers who work on Bitcoin. I think that is the best if like step one of my

1312
01:33:18,612 --> 01:33:24,612
playbook, if I was a hostile actor who wanted to destabilize Bitcoin would be take away any sort of

1313
01:33:24,612 --> 01:33:30,252
faith that the Bitcoin community has in all of the open source developers who are building on that

1314
01:33:30,252 --> 01:33:34,212
community because then, and then threaten them with jail time, threaten them with all sorts of

1315
01:33:34,212 --> 01:33:37,572
things, use the government playbook of saying, well, you know, you don't want to be supporting

1316
01:33:37,572 --> 01:33:41,212
this kind of terrible activity, do you? And you know, you might need to, we might have to take

1317
01:33:41,212 --> 01:33:46,412
you in for that. Like people have been jailed for writing open source code before. We've literally

1318
01:33:46,412 --> 01:33:50,752
seen this in the tornado cache. We've seen it in the samurai wall. Like this is, this is nothing

1319
01:33:50,752 --> 01:33:57,732
new. And so if I wanted to destabilize Bitcoin, what I would first do is sow dissension in the

1320
01:33:57,732 --> 01:34:03,612
ranks and try to create a situation where people are really scared to build on Bitcoin, are really

1321
01:34:03,612 --> 01:34:08,612
scared. And, you know, or, or alternately, if I was somebody who really wanted to see Bitcoin

1322
01:34:08,612 --> 01:34:14,892
ossify as fast as possible that's what i would do as well and but again run whatever you want guys

1323
01:34:14,892 --> 01:34:19,852
that's the beauty of bitcoin nobody can tell you what to do it's your your node you can run whatever

1324
01:34:19,852 --> 01:34:24,212
you want you can build your own implementation if you are so inclined you can vibe code one although

1325
01:34:24,212 --> 01:34:28,452
i probably wouldn't recommend that if you're not a very technical person uh that may not turn out

1326
01:34:28,452 --> 01:34:36,612
so well for you i agree yeah well george i've kept you here for for a while here as usual the time

1327
01:34:36,612 --> 01:34:42,092
has flown by. I want to see if it was there, man, we, we went on a, so many different tangents and

1328
01:34:42,092 --> 01:34:46,972
rabbit holes and I loved it. I loved it as usual. I hope we can do this in person over a beer again

1329
01:34:46,972 --> 01:34:51,452
soon, but is there, uh, is there anything else you, you want to, you want to talk about at all?

1330
01:34:51,452 --> 01:34:54,632
Is there anything you're working on that you want to, you want to share with people? I mean,

1331
01:34:54,652 --> 01:34:59,132
you showed us some of those beautiful paintings behind you. Um, maybe you could also just, well,

1332
01:34:59,192 --> 01:35:03,212
you can answer that first question later, but where can people actually, if they want to support

1333
01:35:03,212 --> 01:35:07,772
your work by buying your work, maybe spending some sats on it. How can they do that?

1334
01:35:08,612 --> 01:35:11,212
You know, that's funny you should ask that because I don't normally sell my,

1335
01:35:11,392 --> 01:35:16,552
I haven't sold my paintings. I don't do commissions usually, very rarely, once in a while for a friend.

1336
01:35:17,512 --> 01:35:21,432
I just did one for Bob Burnett recently and from Prague.

1337
01:35:21,532 --> 01:35:21,672
Awesome guy.

1338
01:35:22,192 --> 01:35:27,232
Yeah, it was an incredible painting and his wife was the model. And she is the model for that

1339
01:35:27,232 --> 01:35:34,312
original painting years ago I did, God Bestows Bitcoin to Eve. Larry Lepard's got both those

1340
01:35:34,312 --> 01:35:39,372
paintings. He bought both Adam and Eve. They're side by side. You mentioned at the beginning,

1341
01:35:39,692 --> 01:35:43,992
yeah, you mentioned at the beginning that we are kind of documenting a historical period,

1342
01:35:44,492 --> 01:35:48,352
and that's what those paintings and pieces were about. You know, in fact, you're in those,

1343
01:35:48,352 --> 01:35:57,712
you and Carla are in both of those paintings as a month, like a kind of a magazine article or maybe

1344
01:35:57,712 --> 01:36:02,932
something quotes from you that are in there as a montage. And it looks really cool. And that's at

1345
01:36:02,932 --> 01:36:08,892
the Bitcoin Museum. But what I was going to say is, yeah, lately, I actually have sold a few

1346
01:36:08,892 --> 01:36:13,892
paintings to Bitcoiners. And I'll only do that since I'm represented around the country in

1347
01:36:13,892 --> 01:36:17,932
galleries. I only do that if they pay in Bitcoin, because none of the galleries will pay me in

1348
01:36:17,932 --> 01:36:22,732
Bitcoin. So if people are interested, they can always DM me or something. And if you just type

1349
01:36:22,732 --> 01:36:26,912
my name into the internet, George Bodine, you'll find me. I'm the first thing that comes up in

1350
01:36:26,912 --> 01:36:29,872
Google and stuff. So I mean...

1351
01:36:29,872 --> 01:36:35,852
Real quick, there are no standard art galleries that will let you do transactions. I mean,

1352
01:36:36,192 --> 01:36:37,512
that just kind of surprises me.

1353
01:36:37,872 --> 01:36:42,792
I know. And you know, here's the thing too. I've tried to talk to gallery owners about

1354
01:36:42,792 --> 01:36:47,552
Bitcoin and I've been involved in the space for years. How many galleries do you think

1355
01:36:47,552 --> 01:36:52,932
have successfully used my advice to put any Bitcoin on their treasury operations or just

1356
01:36:52,932 --> 01:36:53,872
to buy some themselves.

1357
01:36:53,972 --> 01:36:54,312
How many?

1358
01:36:55,312 --> 01:36:56,092
How about zero?

1359
01:36:56,492 --> 01:36:57,492
No, how about zero?

1360
01:36:58,192 --> 01:37:01,932
So out of the, you know, six galleries around the country, not a one of them has bought

1361
01:37:01,932 --> 01:37:02,052
in.

1362
01:37:02,152 --> 01:37:06,872
I mean, I've been pitching it since it was down at $16,000 or something, and none of

1363
01:37:06,872 --> 01:37:07,312
them have bought in.

1364
01:37:07,572 --> 01:37:09,512
I talked to my physicians about it.

1365
01:37:09,712 --> 01:37:10,572
Nobody's ever bought in.

1366
01:37:10,652 --> 01:37:15,332
Last time I went to a general physical or something, I told the guy, I said, hey, you

1367
01:37:15,332 --> 01:37:15,932
remember last year?

1368
01:37:15,952 --> 01:37:16,752
I look on the calendar.

1369
01:37:17,152 --> 01:37:18,372
I said, I saw you one year ago.

1370
01:37:18,412 --> 01:37:19,612
You know what Bitcoin price was?

1371
01:37:19,752 --> 01:37:20,952
And I don't know what it was.

1372
01:37:21,292 --> 01:37:23,232
And he said, oh, he said, yeah, that's right.

1373
01:37:23,252 --> 01:37:23,912
You did talk to me.

1374
01:37:23,952 --> 01:37:24,712
But what is it now?

1375
01:37:24,932 --> 01:37:26,752
And I told him it's like $120,000.

1376
01:37:27,332 --> 01:37:28,772
He just kind of looked at me.

1377
01:37:29,212 --> 01:37:30,672
But nonetheless, they haven't bought.

1378
01:37:31,032 --> 01:37:32,512
So where was I going on this?

1379
01:37:32,552 --> 01:37:34,332
I was just going to get ready to say goodbye to everybody.

1380
01:37:34,332 --> 01:37:36,572
And I appreciate you having me on here.

1381
01:37:36,752 --> 01:37:46,332
And I want everybody to know that, again, although I think this is going to be kind of a tough time right now for people getting through this,

1382
01:37:46,332 --> 01:37:50,792
particular period. I know it is. I mean, it just sucks. My kids, they're all working their ass off.

1383
01:37:51,352 --> 01:37:56,692
You know, daycare sucks. I mean, in child care, the cost is incredible. Health insurance is

1384
01:37:56,692 --> 01:38:02,112
incredible. They're all struggling with house payments, car payments. It's crazy. And so it's

1385
01:38:02,112 --> 01:38:09,592
a difficult period. But I honestly do believe that if you can find a way to get Bitcoin as much as you

1386
01:38:09,592 --> 01:38:15,012
can comfortably stack like a smart psychopath and hold on to the damn thing, I think that on the

1387
01:38:15,012 --> 01:38:18,952
outside on the other side when we come through this crisis period if it is a fourth turning

1388
01:38:18,952 --> 01:38:25,212
i think it's going to be a great world we'll have a reset it could be a incredible reset i mean and

1389
01:38:25,212 --> 01:38:29,392
maybe bitcoin will be a base neutral it'll be a neutral reserve asset somewhere on the planet

1390
01:38:29,392 --> 01:38:36,872
maybe the u.s you never know so to to fuck you money cheers to that and and josh i want to thank

1391
01:38:36,872 --> 01:38:40,832
you because you are just like one of my favorite people i feel so grateful it's actually thanks to

1392
01:38:40,832 --> 01:38:47,092
both Larry Lippard and to Greg Foss that we met for the first time at that dinner Larry was putting

1393
01:38:47,092 --> 01:38:53,552
together. It feels like ages ago now, but only a few years ago, I guess. But we were talking about

1394
01:38:53,552 --> 01:38:58,392
this before. Time moves differently in this space. Bitcoin ages you, kids. I mean, look at me. I'm

1395
01:38:58,392 --> 01:39:04,852
like 32 years old. Used to have dark hair. I mean, look at what Bitcoin did to me. But it's been worth

1396
01:39:04,852 --> 01:39:09,212
it. You still look better than most 32-year-olds out there, George. So you're doing all right.

1397
01:39:09,212 --> 01:39:11,072
I'm still, I'm working out every day.

1398
01:39:11,232 --> 01:39:15,152
I mean, I'm out there ready to kick ass, take names right up after action reports.

1399
01:39:15,552 --> 01:39:16,932
I absolutely love it.

1400
01:39:16,972 --> 01:39:20,632
And just for anyone who wants to follow you, you are on Noster as well.

1401
01:39:20,712 --> 01:39:23,092
You've been off it for a little bit, but you are on there.

1402
01:39:23,192 --> 01:39:26,872
Yeah, I'm going to have to reestablish that because I can't, you know, a typical boomer.

1403
01:39:26,972 --> 01:39:28,092
I mean, I've played around with it.

1404
01:39:28,092 --> 01:39:30,212
I think I lost my key immediately.

1405
01:39:31,592 --> 01:39:32,932
Spin up a new one.

1406
01:39:33,432 --> 01:39:34,172
I will.

1407
01:39:34,632 --> 01:39:38,772
Send me, you know, let me know when you do, and I'll go ahead and follow it, and I'll blast it out there.

1408
01:39:39,212 --> 01:39:42,732
And your handle on X is Jethro111?

1409
01:39:43,312 --> 01:39:43,552
Yeah.

1410
01:39:43,852 --> 01:39:51,132
And if you don't see a blue checkmark on my name there, that's some scamming prick, some sycophant that's trying to scam you.

1411
01:39:51,192 --> 01:39:54,572
And I never contact people with a DM or Instagram or anything like that.

1412
01:39:54,592 --> 01:39:55,292
I don't want any money.

1413
01:39:55,492 --> 01:39:56,792
I don't want anything from anybody.

1414
01:39:56,992 --> 01:39:59,872
I just want everybody to be happy and stack Bitcoin.

1415
01:40:01,012 --> 01:40:03,032
Can't think of a better note to end on than that, George.

1416
01:40:03,212 --> 01:40:04,792
Thank you so much for sharing your time.

1417
01:40:04,792 --> 01:40:06,172
Great catching up with you.

1418
01:40:06,352 --> 01:40:08,592
And I hope we can do it in the flesh again soon.

1419
01:40:08,592 --> 01:40:10,632
We got to make it back to Prague next year.

1420
01:40:11,332 --> 01:40:11,872
That sounds good.

1421
01:40:12,072 --> 01:40:12,672
I'll see you there.

1422
01:40:38,592 --> 01:40:43,752
This podcast at primal.net slash titcoin on X YouTube and rumble.

1423
01:40:43,872 --> 01:40:49,132
Just search at Walker America and find this podcast on X and Instagram at

1424
01:40:49,132 --> 01:40:50,352
titcoin podcast.

1425
01:40:50,532 --> 01:40:53,052
Head to the show notes to grab sponsor links,

1426
01:40:53,052 --> 01:40:58,412
head to substack.com slash at Walker America to get episodes emailed to you and

1427
01:40:58,412 --> 01:41:01,672
head to Bitcoin podcast.net for everything else.

1428
01:41:02,212 --> 01:41:05,772
Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant.

1429
01:41:05,772 --> 01:41:11,112
So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to The Bitcoin Podcast.

1430
01:41:11,912 --> 01:41:14,412
Until next time, stay free.