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Just think about that next time you you call it it's it's going to zero or that it's going to die like

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We're all just sitting back here laughing at you sir. We are we're laughing at you

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We think you're an idiot because we don't think that you understand like how this actually works and like that this this is a

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this is a takeover and

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We're sucking all the monetary energy out of the global economy and we're stuffing it into Bitcoin and we're gonna recap all the equity

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So congratulations. You played yourself. We're here. We're taking over

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Greetings and salutations my fellow plebs. My name is Walker and this is the Bitcoin podcast

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The Bitcoin block height is 807 210 and the value of one Bitcoin is still one Bitcoin

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Today's episode is Bitcoin talk where I talk with my guest about Bitcoin and many other things as well

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Today that guest is Preston Pish a man whom I admire a great deal

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Preston graduated from West Point is a captain in the US Army

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It was a combat helicopter pilot flying Apache attack helicopters on multiple tours of duty

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Preston is also one of the founders of the investors podcast network

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He hosts the show Bitcoin fundamentals a collection of podcast episodes on the we study billionaires flagship

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podcast of the investors podcast network with more than 150 million downloads

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You can find Preston on no store by going to primal net slash Preston

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I really enjoyed this conversation and I think you will too if you want to watch the video version of the show

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Head to YouTube comm slash at Walker America

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If you're a Bitcoin only company looking to sponsor another fucking Bitcoin podcast hit me up on no store at primal net slash Walker on

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Twitter at Walker America or by going to Bitcoin podcast net

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Without further ado, let's get into this Bitcoin talk with Preston Pish

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Greetings and salutations my fellow plebs. My name is Walker and this is the Bitcoin podcast

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today's episode is Bitcoin talk and I am joined by an all-around

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Incredible and impressive human being today Preston Pish

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Preston's resume is quite long and extensive. So just a couple of highlights. He graduated from West Point

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He's a captain of the US Army was a combat helicopter pilot flying Apache attack helicopters on multiple tours of duty

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He's also one of the founders of the investors podcast network. He hosts the show Bitcoin fundamentals

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It's a collection of podcast episodes on the we study billionaires flagship podcast on that network

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They have more than 100 million or 150 million downloads at this point

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So that is quite impressive Preston. Thank you so much for taking your scarce time to talk with me today

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It's great to have you wonderful to be here a big fan of you and your wife

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Yeah, great to be here. I'm a bigger fan of my wife than I am of me, but I appreciate the sentiment nonetheless

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Well, well, thanks so much. I'd love to start out by just again

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I highlighted a couple of things that you have done in your life, but I'd love to hear from you

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Who is Preston Pish and how the heck did he get here today?

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What does that journey look like

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You know, I just to kind of tell a little bit of my story of like why I went into the military

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because that heavily influenced who I who I am and kind of

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My morals and things like that

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When I was a kid I was

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10th grade I went up and I had a cousin who was a oral surgeon at West Point

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He was the head dental oral surgeon at West Point Fullberg Colonel, which is for people that don't know the ranks

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that's one rank below general and

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He lived at West Point and was just, you know

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the head dentist there and

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My family was like, hey, we're gonna go up and visit Jack

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And so, you know, I'm a young kid just

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highly in you know influenced by whatever you see

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Have no idea what it is. I want to do I was good at that point in my life

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I was I was good at math really couldn't stand writing and language and all that kind of stuff

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And so I went up there we visited him and his family and

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You know, I got taken around to see the academy and just really liked the discipline

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and I really liked that it was an engineering and math school and

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It was up for a challenge, you know, like that was really kind of

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Where I was at at that point in my life was just like, hey, this looks like a real challenge

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It looks really difficult

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It was really difficult to get into so I wasn't so sure whether, you know, it was even a possibility of whether I could do it

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But long story short, uh, it it had a huge impact on me at this point in my life where I was just starting my 10th grade year

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And uh, really motivated me to to want to go do that

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And if I didn't get in the west point, I was looking at some of the other service academies like the Air Force Academy and just

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Really kind of liked that, uh

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The rigor I liked the uh

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The morals and like everybody's room is unlocked and you can trust all the other people

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There was like an honor code associated with it and it was just it really kind of uh

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Harmonized with with who I was as a perp or like least what I thought I was as a person at that point in my life

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and um

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Yeah, so like that's a little bit more on on

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What I was attracted to at that age and I knew I wanted to do engineering and this was like one of the top five

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engineering schools in the country

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And so it was just kind of it was a kind of a fit for me and um, I knew it was going to be hard

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But I was a little bit attracted to that. I wanted something that was really challenging at that point

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And I really wanted to fly

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um, I

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Uh, I think when we were up there, they had like a helicopter display. We were up there for a football game

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Uh the weekend of a football game and they had like all these different displays

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And I was just looking at like oh my god. This would be amazing

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I could go here and then I could be a pilot afterwards and like that would just be awesome

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and that's what I did and um

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So that that had a big influence on who I who I became and kind of like my moral construct

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um

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Because you you learn like when you go through the surface academy that

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um

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Your ability to tell the truth

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Your ability to work together as a team and with other people is really kind of the essence of like

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Being successful in the military. It's it's really kind of comes down to uh, you got to trust your buddy to your left and your right

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and if you can't act morally responsibly and

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always with truth at the forefront of of your actions

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Then that you can't work together in harmony as a team if those aren't at the at the root

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And so uh, that's really bred into the culture at service academies is you

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You if you lie me it's so serious that if you would lie is with something I'll give you an example

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if uh

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if you had a a coke in your

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Pepsi or a coke on your on your dresser and it somebody came in and drank it

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And like you could prove somehow that that person drank the coke and you asked the person afterwards like did you drink that

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Coke or Pepsi and they said no like and they just blatantly lied about it

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You could literally be thrown out of the school for that

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That's how that's how serious it is zero tolerance

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Like literally zero tolerance and it doesn't even matter how small

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The act is there's just no tolerance for it whatsoever let alone like cheating on a test or anything like that

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But then I I saw I saw many of people that were thrown out of the school for for honor

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And uh, so it's it's very serious. It's something that uh, you know this

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I can't even tell you how many classes, you know how this is like drilled into your head

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Um throughout your four years is that you just there's no tolerance for liars cheaters and people that take advantage of others

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and so like that is

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um

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I didn't have an appreciation for how important and how powerful this was when I was going through the school

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It was more like like you're you were fearful of it

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Like the consequences were so like huge of like oh my god. I went through three years of this and I got thrown up for

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Honestly

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When when I was going through it. I was more fearful of it than understanding why it was so important

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But you know two decades later

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uh

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It's

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It's very obvious to me why this is so vital to

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uh

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The school and like what it represents and why it's important to people to to live a successful life afterwards

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and if I was going to try to explain it in a way that is uh

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Either it just maybe a different way to to describe it

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When you lie or when you do things that are unethical and I would describe unethical is when you're stealing somebody else's energy

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And you're not you're you're doing it in a way that's manipulative that the other person doesn't know you're stealing their energy

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When you do that what you're doing is you're actually introducing volatility into not only their life, but also your life

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Because I think what you do is you're setting you're setting this

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Uh reciprocal laws of motion into the the universe's ether

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And it's going to find a way to come back and manifest itself into your life

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And the thing that makes it really hard for people to wrap their head around why a lot of people don't believe that

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Is because I think it manifests itself back into your life at the point that's most optimal for the universe

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Which means it could be five years later. It could be 10 seconds later or it could be 30 years later

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And I think the longer the lag is that that it does come back to you. I think there's some sort of like interest on it

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Meaning if it comes back to you 30 years later, it's coming back with a whole lot more magnitude than what you

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Inserted into it 30 years previously

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And so people would hear this and be like, oh, that's a lot like karma and it is yeah, and um

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You know, this isn't something that like I learned at the school. This is something that I've kind of uh, I guess it's my framework for how I view the world

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and um

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I just think that

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When like if I went to you and I I told you I was going to help you out with something but my intention and this is what

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What is taught when you're talking about?

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Uh, honor violations at these schools as they say what was the intention of the person?

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Was the intention of the person to go in there and drink the coke?

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Because they didn't want to pay for one

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Okay, because that's just a pure

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uh parasitic activity

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Very small in value, but that's stealing somebody else's energy that's in the form of this coke that they're that they're drinking and by the way

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I don't think I I don't drink coke or Pepsi. I drink water

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Oh, I'm glad that you clarified that

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For the help for the health people out there

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But let's say my intention was I was trying to have fun

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with you by

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By screwing with your head by drinking a little bit of the coke because you were trying to figure out who it was right?

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And my intention was actually to have fun because we're friends

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Okay

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There are two acts

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Okay

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That one might try to argue or the same thing

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But I would argue they're very very different

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And they're very different because of the intention of the person of like why were they doing it?

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Were they actually trying to claw energy away or were they actually trying to have fun and uh

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Uh and later on they're gonna say oh, yeah, that was me. I was screwing with you. I was just trying to have fun and and by the way

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And here and here's a coke by the way. Yeah, and here's here's your coke back, right?

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Like if that was truly the intention there's the it's it's interesting because I think

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when we when we pull on this thread of morals and we pull on the thread of reciprocity and uh

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Karma

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I think that

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Inside of all of that is this idea of intentions that are wrapped inside of it

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So if your intention is to actually steal like look at all these look at all these shitcoins, okay?

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Look at the people that are that are behind these shitcoins

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Look at the intentions of the people behind these shitcoins

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And their intentions they really think they're clever and they really think that

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That they can smooth millions of dollars of buying power and that the universe isn't going to find a way

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To totally destroy them in their future

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Right and and sometimes it plays out fast and sometimes it's gonna play out much longer. And so I look at guys like, uh

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Ben, what's the uh, bit boy bit boy?

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Yeah

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Like when I see a guy like this and I can see he's just straight parasitic

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My actions on twitter is I want to I want to block this guy

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so insanely

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Facts so that there's no way that I can that I can pull him into my gravitational pull of

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Of my circle or my inner circle because he is the definition of of parasitic activity, right?

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Now what I find interesting is other parasites

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People that harmonize with those types of activities are attracted to him

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They get they get pulled in almost like it's a gravitational energy force

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That's that's sucking them to a guy like that so that they can enjoy this

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Uh, this energy sucked together

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And and what it is is it's a life of pain

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Right this this introduction of volatility and and parasites that get attracted to each other

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It's a life of pain. It's a life of a person choosing

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Choosing to experience the pain instead of experience

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Growth through other people's hardships or or uh

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um

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Great performance like you can learn through others or you can learn through pain and it's like well

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This is the the way you want to you want to go so

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Some of those things are what shaped me very early on. I know that was a really long response, but I liked it

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But these are the these are really core ideas to who I am and what I believe in

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And why I make the decisions in the manner that I make them

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It really I would tell you this is at my core of like who I am and how I think about people and how I think about

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Their decision-making and whether I decide to associate with them or not

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I can be very picky with people that I associate with

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I consider myself even luckier after hearing that to have the pleasure of associating with you

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I want to I want to stick on that that topic for a second because

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Something that I always ask myself is for these people that are these parasitic scammers that we from the outside can very

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Obviously see what they're doing. We can see their intent

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Do you think some of these guys and I say guys because well

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They're they are mostly guys

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If we're in the in the shitcoin space, do you think that they tend or start to believe their own bullshit at a certain point?

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Do you think they start to think you know what I really am helping people?

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Uh, like that they start out knowing that what they're doing is an obvious grift and then at some point

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They get so wrapped up in the story that they've told themselves that they may actually start to delusionally believe like no no

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Bencoin is going to change the world and it's going to be the future of finance and it's helping people

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What's your take on that?

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So for this type of person

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The way that their brain functions is it's all about them first

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And then they reverse engineer the logic

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Okay, so they would look at bencoin and they'd be like this dude is going to rug pull so many people

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And he's going to make so much money

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Right and therefore if I can participate in this alongside of him

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I'm going to make so much money

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And and then it's like okay. So like how can I do do some type of logic that make and you see the excitement that I'm showing you

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Yep, this excites them

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This excites them because you got to remember at their core

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It's all about them and it's all about how creative they can be

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In order to suck energy away without somebody else knowing that they're sucking the energy away

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That's for them a productive action

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Because of what they believe at their core, which is it's all about me first and this is going to feed me like it's never fed me before

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Right and that's that's what they're really thinking and if they can tell a cute or creative story around that

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And and dup other people in the process

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they're walking away from that experience of duping somebody with an enormous amount of of

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self

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Like it really makes them feel good

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Because they were able to suck that energy away without the other

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counterparty

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Knowing that they were that they like they're like I fooled the living hell out of these idiots

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And like they feel really good about it

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And that's scary, but that's but that's who they are at their core

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And that's why they're attracted to a guy like that is because they he completely

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Resonates with the way they think about themselves and about the world

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Which is the whole world is my oyster to suck energy from and not to to give anything in return

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It's such a

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I think that it's so you explained it very well

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And it's so difficult for people who are not parasitic in that way

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People who are genuinely trying to build something to create value to give value to others

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Because they know that value comes back when you when you create it and put it out in the world

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It's so difficult to wrap your mind around that that narcissistic

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Egotistical parasitic mindset where you just say like how can you like how can you live with yourself?

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How can you sleep at night?

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But then we also must remember that like literally 1 of the general population are clinical psychopaths and you know a few percent are sociopaths

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So it's like maybe

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Three to five out of every 100 people is either a psychopath or a sociopath

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So I think that's often giving some of these scammers too much credit like some of them are there are just also

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You know people who are very shitty. They may not be psychopaths. They're just

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Egotistical narcissists and you know they were wired up that way

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So like when we look at how people get wired up so much of it's just influenced by the first 15 years 20 years of their life

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From your parents

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And you know if you have if you have parasitic parents

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It's going to dry. It's going to polarize you one way or the other

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It's going to polarize you to be exactly like them

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Or the pain is so painful that it actually drives the person in the exact opposite direction

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So when you look at a person who's not parasitic either their parents were were

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Great parents and really taught the person how to how to

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How you need to be in harmony with everybody

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And it needs to be a win-win and it needs to be a value creation to the other person

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Or they were so dang parasitic that they they they wired you up to be the polar opposite of who they are

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And uh, and I think this is why human nature when we talk about human nature it it

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Perpetuates this cycle

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over and over and over again

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Uh, and and you could argue that a parent who is too giving that doesn't let their child discover anything

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It can actually perpetuate a parasitic child sometimes because they're their total pushovers and they've just

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received energy their whole lives

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Without ever learning like what's behind the why of like why the parent is so giving

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And it can perpetuate the opposite right and it's this it's this uh, it's this harmony of

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uh

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Like a yin-yang right like you look at at that like when it becomes too overpowering one direction

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You actually create the opposite of what what maybe you're intending to create

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Yeah, it's I definitely knew of some people like that in college that uh did not quite understand how they had it so good

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But just assume that it must always be like that. Uh, they did not do so well in college. Um with that mentality though, unfortunately

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And so after

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After they leave their parents who were just giving abundance of energy to them at no cost whatsoever

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What they're really searching for after they leave the parents and they'll continue to suck off the parents

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But like they're looking for a partner. They're looking for other people in their lives

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That can provide this free source of energy. I mean, this is the definition of a parasite

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Right, they're looking for something that can supply this free source of energy

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And yeah, it's wild. So the lesson for for people that are getting ready to be parents like yourself

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Is is there's a balance and most importantly there's an education process that has to take place with the child at the root

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Of like the why am I giving this to you?

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And why I'm going to stop giving it to and why you need to to create value for others

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um

285
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Yeah, it's it's it's difficult for people to wrap their head around like this this recurring loop of

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Of how things can play out in a person's life

287
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It's interesting. I've talked to a few bitcoiners about a similar

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In a similar vein where the idea of okay if we let's imagine a hyper bitcoinist future

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Where uh, those of us who have been working hard to accumulate bitcoin over, you know, the past, you know, a few years and also maybe the next 20 30 years

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When we go to give something to our children

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Uh, how do you make sure that you still instill in those kids if if we are truly in this hypothetical situation?

292
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Which is not so hypothetical. Hopefully uh living in this post-hyper bitcoinized world

293
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uh

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bitcoiners are going to have a massive amount of material wealth, uh, and

295
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How do you make sure that if you are raising kids

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You raise them to still have the tenacity and the grit and the drive to push forward and to realize listen

297
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Yeah, you have it you have it good, but life cannot be handed to you and you still need to work at this

298
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And I think I had the chance to meet uh meet your kids briefly and they seem like wonderful human beings

299
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So if you have any thoughts on that in the in the post-hyper bitcoinized world, how do bitcoiners who are stacking now ensure that their kids

300
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Uh

301
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Have the same drive and tenacity that they did

302
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So this is one of my favorite talks

303
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Uh, because I think so many people get this really wrong like really

304
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So going back to the example we were talking about where a parent is just showering their child with energy

305
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Right and how it can actually perpetuate and create this monster

306
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That expects energy to just continue to shine down on them

307
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um

308
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Take that

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multiply it by a hundred thousand

310
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And that's what you get when you hand wealth to children

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without any type of

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Thought as to whether they can actually handle

313
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such an energy uh

314
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Exposure

315
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,960
Right, this would be like taking a plant like some outdoor plant

316
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and like hooking up like

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like this

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massive

319
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Energy like light system to like this tiny little plant and then just showering it with energy for like 48 hours straight

320
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Like you're gonna wither it

321
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to an ash

322
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And like that's what people are doing when they have an abundance of money

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And they jam it down the throat of the child who has no clue like how it was ever achieved

324
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how how it was ever created and um

325
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:50,080
They're they're they're destroying their family line is what they're doing through something like like it

326
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It has the potential to be the most toxic pill you could jam down the throat of your child

327
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and um

328
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Now there are there are children that let's say they're 30 years old and they have

329
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,840
enormous drive and understanding of like how to

330
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:18,000
How to control the flow of all that energy because I just see it as like pent up energy

331
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It's almost like a marvel movie, right?

332
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Like where they can like control like these these timelines or these energy exchange and like

333
00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:31,120
uh, the what's the one with the guardians of the galaxy where like

334
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,400
Very few people can like actually hold one of these stones

335
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,400
They just explode if they grab one of these stones. It is exactly like that

336
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When you talk about handing wealth over to children like you're handing this thing that's going to make them explode

337
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:51,280
So, uh, I if you would all in that light and I think it's a case by case basis

338
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I think age is super important when you look at like

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Whether that so like if a person's setting up a will I think that will should definitely have

340
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Clauses in there that extend out the age before they would get this drip of money

341
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,560
uh

342
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If not just giving it all away

343
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:16,000
I think that that's a that may be one of the most viable and your kids might hate you

344
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But you know what at least you're like

345
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Somewhat protecting them from being showered with like ultraviolet gamma radiation or whatever

346
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,480
That's like, you know, did literally destroy them

347
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Right and well and hopefully if you're giving it away not being forcefully giving it away via some 50 percent inheritance tax to the government

348
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But a voluntary

349
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,840
Giveaway in a product that actually goes to a productive use not just funding a bloated state

350
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:49,360
Uh, no, I think that that's that's great advice and you know, I think that's something that actually uh from my own experience

351
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:52,320
That I've seen immigrant parents do extremely well

352
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Is and sometimes, you know, they come off as very harsh

353
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Uh, uh when compared to a let's say quote typical american parent who maybe

354
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Is more of the participation

355
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,840
Uh award type of parent versus

356
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:14,160
At least, you know, carlos parents for example, uh, her dad escaped communism. He was a defector

357
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He did not have it easy

358
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,480
Uh and worked his ass off for that and never let

359
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:26,000
His you know daughters forget that and they both turned into very incredible women

360
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:32,080
I've seen that in a lot of cases. Of course that that can also be taken too far in certain cases, you know, too much

361
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:37,680
Guilty of you know, well, you didn't walk 20 miles uphill both ways to school with you know

362
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,720
The you know, but but there's you know everything in balance, right as you said yin and yang

363
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,440
Uh, and and I think that's key. So

364
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaking of balance, uh, how I just I would love to know a little bit more, uh, about how you managed to balance

365
00:28:53,520 --> 00:29:01,840
Uh, you came out of the military and uh, and you went and you got your masters right in uh, uh in finance

366
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,120
and

367
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,960
What did that journey look like for you of balancing coming out of the military?

368
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,120
and after having really and truly served

369
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:15,440
and then

370
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,840
Deciding okay, I'm gonna go back to school. I'm going to then start what is

371
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,880
Like one of the I think what the most probably successful investor

372
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:30,960
Uh investing podcast, uh, that's out there. I mean you guys have built something really incredible

373
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:37,200
How did that journey start out for you? When did you kind of decide? Okay? I want to I want to do this

374
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,360
I want to I want to go in this direction

375
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,040
And and how did you manage to balance all of that with also?

376
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,600
Uh, you know having a wonderful wife

377
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,160
raising some amazing kids because

378
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,280
It's something that I think is uh balance is difficult

379
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:57,440
But balance is one of the if you can find that balance. It's one of the things that gives your life so much fulfillment

380
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:05,760
So where I think a lot of people go wrong is once they decide. Oh, I'm gonna do a podcast or I'm gonna do

381
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,360
Whatever you name it business idea

382
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:11,600
They

383
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,600
They don't harness time

384
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:15,600
appropriately

385
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,600
They want it now

386
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,320
They want to see results in two years

387
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,440
they uh

388
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:29,040
Or in the little jump ship like oh, I'm not doing that anymore. I'm going all in right here

389
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,400
I got to go all in like just like that phrase right? Yep

390
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,480
Uh, that's what leads to a really

391
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,840
In balance in a person's life

392
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:45,520
Like for me like I started doing the podcast. I actually started it off as a forum

393
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:53,600
Uh, like an online forum and education site and the business actually started off in books like publishing books

394
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,160
and um

395
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:01,360
and it was just this slow little grind that I was doing on the side that uh

396
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,440
You know, I dedicated an hour to two hours

397
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,160
At night like late at night usually like after 9 p.m

398
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:14,800
I would work an hour to two hours and I just was like slowly like just chipping away

399
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,840
like ever so slightly and it was um

400
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,240
It was my lack of desire to see results immediately

401
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:33,760
that I would say allowed me to balance it all and allowed me to stay sane and to enjoy my family and like

402
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,320
It was it was always this thing like well if if if it grows up into this thing

403
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,360
That would be amazing. But if it doesn't that's okay, too

404
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:48,960
And I was just very realistic about it all and there was really no grand strategy and no like grand plan

405
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,520
and I think that's why it was able to

406
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,080
um

407
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,560
You know some people they they tell themselves stories

408
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,120
so often

409
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,560
That they convinced themselves of these

410
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:04,400
uh

411
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,240
Like oh this is going to we're going to be at a million dollars in two years

412
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:15,600
We're going to be at five million dollars in revenue a year after that and they tell themselves a story over and over and over again

413
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,000
And then especially when it's not met

414
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,720
Like it's a meltdown and it's it's this disaster and then it's like well

415
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,920
We still have to figure out a way to do it and then they start getting uh

416
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,120
Like overly creative in a very bad way

417
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:37,120
And like we just never had any of that like it was always just like to be honest with you the first

418
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,040
three to

419
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:45,040
Five years was just like we weren't making any money. We were just doing it because we were having fun

420
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,840
We were doing it for the love of the topic

421
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:54,240
Right, we were doing it for like oh, well, this is pretty neat. We get to talk to some really neat people

422
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,320
we're not getting paid anything but like

423
00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:02,560
Like and we were so early in the podcasting like there wasn't even advertising like back there like if I would

424
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:08,720
That's when advertising like hey, you want to add do ads on our show like what what's a podcast like you talk about

425
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,280
um

426
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,800
So like we were doing it because we loved it and um

427
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,080
And I think that that was really important if you're doing something because you just want to make a bunch of money

428
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:27,440
Like good luck to you like I don't know what to tell you like it's probably not going to work out so well for you because

429
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,320
when people are

430
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,480
Actually creating value for others

431
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:38,160
They're doing it because they're solving a problem that they just cannot deal with anymore like personally

432
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,480
They're just maybe they work at some widget factory and like they're like god

433
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:49,440
I could make this so much easier if I could just invent this tool that does this step like five times faster

434
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,920
And so then they invent the tool and then the tool does great and they like there

435
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,160
They're intimately familiar with a problem that needs to be solved

436
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:03,360
And then they're very passionate about solving that problem and it like if that's not you and you're just like oh

437
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:08,480
I I got this idea to make five million dollars and like that's the reason you're gonna

438
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:15,680
Nine times out of ten maybe 99 times out of 100 like you are gonna fail so flat on your face. It's not even funny

439
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:21,280
It's it's like the the kind of the the chat gpt business model of okay

440
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:27,600
Chat gpt give give me a real good idea that's gonna make me five million dollars in revenues

441
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,600
Like it's it's it's wanting the result without

442
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,440
Putting in the work. It's the expectation of having it handed to you

443
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,720
Because you're somehow worthy of it even though you have done nothing to prove that worth

444
00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:45,280
And again, it's really just like that chat gpt mentality of like okay

445
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:51,920
I don't want to figure out the the process just give me what the solution is and then I'll just do that and it'll just work

446
00:34:53,120 --> 00:35:00,320
Well, I think a lot of people are motivated by just going big like that's the that's a catch then 10 exit or

447
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:07,120
Let's go big like it's it's like this cliche thing that people are so and it gets back to the whole fiat cleanly

448
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:12,160
People are so frustrated because when they look around they literally know nothing

449
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:17,680
They don't think that they're renting like the most obscure things these days like things that like

450
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:24,400
Cost a couple hundred bucks and they're renting it like it's wild to me like how like

451
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:26,320
How

452
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:31,680
Truly everybody's a rent seeker everybody's a debt slave like through and through

453
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:33,920
and um

454
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,040
So I think it's it's that combined with well

455
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,520
I just got to go big and like just reverse the tide here

456
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,840
Like I can't deal with this reality that I own nothing and I'm a slave

457
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,560
to society

458
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,720
And all these people that control the the fractional reserve banking system

459
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:54,160
um

460
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:59,040
That they that they then want to go big and then it's like let me type in the chat gpt. It's going to give me an idea

461
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,520
I'm going to execute i'm going to crush it right and it's just this is not how the world works

462
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:08,480
It's it's almost this gambler's mentality of you're down so bad

463
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,040
Uh, not always necessarily through fault of your own but through fault of the system

464
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:20,240
Uh, perhaps it's also fault of your own, but in general that gambler's mentality of I just need that one that one win

465
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,360
I'll make it all back and then some and then and then i'm out

466
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:29,840
You know then I'll then I'll quit but but you're never out um this in in in the house of or in the casino of fiat

467
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,840
The house always wins and the deck is very much stacked against you

468
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:39,600
But that's frustrating to people and so I think that that's where you have that, you know, they're searching for something

469
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:45,040
Uh, that they can just grab on to that they can make theirs that they don't have to do the work for

470
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,520
because also the I think

471
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:52,800
Perhaps the the way that our culture has started shifting a little bit and maybe it's partially social media

472
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:59,680
Maybe it's just natural, but there's the glorification of uh, I don't I think that glorifying success

473
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,720
Is a good thing if you're telling the story of how that's of the hard work that went into it

474
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:11,120
I think glorifying just a lifestyle that is supposed to be associated with success

475
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,560
Leads people to doing absurdly stupid things like renting a Ferrari

476
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:22,000
For an hour to take a photo with it with your rented Rolex that you know, you also have for the next hour

477
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,800
Just to be able to post on social media to show that you have somehow attained this level of success

478
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,760
And you're going to teach somebody else how to do it too, buddy. Don't worry and it's

479
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,800
We need to get back. I think to

480
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,360
glorifying hard work and

481
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:39,920
glorifying the idea that sacrifice

482
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,640
Is okay and a good thing

483
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,720
That success shouldn't just be easy that it should be hard one

484
00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:53,920
And I think will be a lot better off and and if people, you know, there's nothing so satisfying as a hard day's work

485
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:59,600
Um when you can be done with the day and say wow, I'm really proud of what I accomplished today

486
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,320
Otherwise, it's just hollow

487
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:09,200
Yep, I so I interviewed this billionaire, uh, Jesse Itzler. This guy's hilarious. He uh, wrote this book

488
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:15,600
Living with a seal he hired this navy seal to live with him just to like kick his butt and like

489
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,800
Uh, like just give make him hard like he's all about like doing hard things. So, um,

490
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:27,840
I was I was talking to Jesse and I said well people just really need to be passionate about what they're

491
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:33,040
You know doing to be successful if they're trying to create a visit because what I'm not sure what I don't want to

492
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:38,240
Send across here is like it's too hard. Don't even try. I'm not saying that

493
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,560
but what I'm saying is

494
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:46,080
If if it's something that you are are passionate about and I'm going to tell you the Jesse story

495
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:47,840
and

496
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,240
You you're passionate about the journey

497
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,600
Then that's something that you should you should really go after so so the story with Jesse

498
00:38:55,600 --> 00:39:00,960
So I said to Jesse I said well, you got to be really passionate about the thing that you're that you're building

499
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,520
Jesse goes f that

500
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,600
He says you need to be passionate about the journey

501
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:14,240
And I I took a step back and I thought like oh that's interesting. He's like he's like because

502
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:20,000
A person who's building something from nothing. So like his story. So he built marquee jet

503
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,400
Which was like one of these jet-share

504
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:27,200
businesses that he's sold for hundreds of millions of dollars and

505
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:33,840
And then his wife is Sarah Blakely who created Spanx and uh sold that oh wow, okay?

506
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:38,320
Yeah, so the two of them are just total powerhouses and

507
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,200
Um, but he said because if you're not passionate about the journey

508
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:48,560
What's going to happen is you're going to you're going to be working at 4 a.m

509
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:54,000
You're going to be like plowing through stuff that you never thought was possible

510
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,280
Like you could never work this hard about on something

511
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:02,000
And if you're not passionate about that journey and building this thing

512
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:07,840
Like you're never going to make it because they're like to really truly build something huge

513
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:10,560
Like it is a tow grind

514
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,120
It's a lot of long hours

515
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:20,000
And it's working on something that if you're if you're not passionate about that experience in like growing that

516
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,480
Like you're never going to make it

517
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,560
And and there's people out there that are maybe building the same exact thing that are

518
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,240
passionate about that journey and they're just going to they're going to destroy you

519
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:31,840
Yeah

520
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,120
So like I for me it was it was a real uh

521
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:41,600
It was a it was an eye-opening experience and then when I looked at like my like my little podcast business, right?

522
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:46,320
Relative to the suckle that little uh, yeah, it's all relative, right?

523
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,840
Like i'm looking at it with jesse with jesse bill and i'm looking at like my business

524
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:55,360
I'm saying i'm saying you know what preston i you are very passionate about this

525
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,760
And like it was this moment for me like you know what like I love doing

526
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:05,760
I love this topic. I love you know if I have to wake up real early for an interview

527
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:10,480
Which sometimes happens if it's uh, you know if it's a big main person and they're in europe or wherever

528
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:15,680
Like there's many times I did interviews at 4am. I literally wake up at 4am to do an interview

529
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,320
and um

530
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,600
And I never once was like oh god

531
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:28,000
I got to get up and do this like I was always excited about and it was something that I was very passionate about and so

532
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:34,320
If if you're somebody who's trying to build something and you don't think that's you for this particular thing

533
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,880
Well, then I would tell you to find something else

534
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,720
That's that that's great advice. Uh, just so you know, I was very excited to get up this morning and talk to you

535
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:44,720
Uh, so

536
00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:50,720
For what it's worth. Well, uh, let's let's switch gears a little bit just so you know

537
00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:55,440
It's a little bit just speak about something. Uh, we're both. I think pretty passionate about

538
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,000
Which is noster

539
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:05,520
It's something that's very easy to get passionate about because like bitcoin. It's something that is open to absolutely anyone

540
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,440
There are no restrictions on your ability to use it and to participate

541
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,440
in this network

542
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:16,240
And you I I remember uh, you were very early on noster

543
00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:22,000
Uh, you and I both were relative again relatively speaking not relative to the devs that were building it

544
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,760
not relative to fiat javu created this thing but relative to the

545
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,200
mass influx of people and that mass is also still relative

546
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:32,880
but

547
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,880
What drew you to

548
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:40,000
Noster in the first place. I think you were on in december. Uh, like we got on around the same time

549
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,600
it was a few people messing around and

550
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:49,520
It was this thing that was really exciting and cool. It was also around the time where there was some turbulence in uh

551
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,600
In the platform formerly known as twitter or x now

552
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,400
and I'd love to know a little bit more because

553
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,200
this is something that uh

554
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,280
It's a network that has the potential to

555
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,600
really

556
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,880
Pull in so many aspects of our social media lives

557
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:12,240
But also to go so far beyond that we're using it right now in the context of social media

558
00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:15,760
That has its own huge number of benefits, but there are

559
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:22,880
potentially infinite possibilities for what can be built on top of this open source communication protocol

560
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:28,560
So I'd love to know a little bit and we we took some questions off noster as well, which we can get to a bit later

561
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,800
But what drew you to noster? What are you excited about there now?

562
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,960
And where do you see that fitting into just both your personal future?

563
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:42,720
But perhaps your your business's future as well as you you know see how this network grows and develops

564
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:48,560
So decentralized social media has been something that's been on my radar for quite a few years

565
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:53,600
I would say back to 2017 is whenever people first started talking about it

566
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:56,240
And they were talking about it more from the lens of like

567
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:02,800
if one of these social media companies created their own crypto token that's uh, you know

568
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:07,200
We we could get into the the conversation of like how decentralized that would be

569
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:14,800
um, but the idea was if they created a crypto token that they could force advertisers to use that token

570
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,760
Like if i'm an advertiser and I want to advertise on facebook or I want to advertise on twitter

571
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,520
I would have to convert my fiat into their token in order to

572
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:29,440
Have these units that then I could buy ads with and what that would do is it would generate a

573
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:36,320
A a real market cap for the utility of such a thing because they have billions of people on my platforms

574
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,560
And so this was this was on my radar because of that

575
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,280
back six years ago

576
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,920
I I was very concerned

577
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,360
At that time like if I was doing a risk assessment on bitcoin

578
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:57,040
I was very concerned that a facebook or a twitter or like one of these one of these platforms with billions of users

579
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,040
could could

580
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:00,880
uh

581
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:07,520
Create a token like this and scale it so that the market cap would be potentially competitive with bitcoin

582
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:14,480
And it would it would be a risk to bitcoin's adoption was my concern back then. I don't have this concern at all these days

583
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,360
But like back in 2017. I had that concern

584
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:20,320
Then you saw when was it uh

585
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,480
Was it 2020 that facebook announced that they were going to do liberal?

586
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:30,880
Well, maybe maybe even earlier than that actually. Yeah, maybe 2019. Maybe 2019 or something like that. Yeah, I think it was

587
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,440
2019 they announced this

588
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:39,600
And David Marcus was the guy like doing this. Yeah, and so uh, this was very concerning

589
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,200
Like that they were going to do this and I remember

590
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:50,240
Jack was talking about decentralized social media where there's no company needed and that could run off of

591
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:54,720
tokens and things like that uh without a company basically

592
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:56,560
uh

593
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,200
managing all the back end of this stuff since

594
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:01,920
probably maybe even before 2017

595
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:08,400
and so like all of this has always been on my radar of of uh, what's happening and

596
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:14,160
Jack has been on record for many years saying that to do it is very difficult technically

597
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:20,000
I didn't understand the nuances of like why that was really difficult technically to do

598
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,600
But I knew that that was Jack's opinion and I I've

599
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:28,320
Followed Jack very closely as to like what he's saying about various things

600
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:30,240
so

601
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:35,120
When I saw Jack start talking about this, I think at the end of uh, 2022

602
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:36,880
Nostra

603
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:41,840
um, and that he had made a donation to the out jack and uh

604
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:48,400
Uh, these others and saying hey, this actually has a real potential to actually be decentralized social media

605
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,480
I immediately dug in and was like all right. So like how does it work?

606
00:46:53,200 --> 00:47:02,080
Uh, how is it actually decentralized? How is it not mastered on like that that you have these skatekeepers controlling content moderation and things like that?

607
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:04,640
and once I and I

608
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:09,360
Immediately tried to start running my own relay so that I could technically sort of understand

609
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:14,480
Yeah, I know I didn't I didn't have the best success, but I had it up and running there for a little bit with lots of help

610
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:20,800
um, and I'm running my own turnkey a relay now with uncle and uh, but anyway, so

611
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:27,520
When I saw that jack was behind this and I saw that it actually looks like this is going to work

612
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:34,240
I mean, I just went all in I was like, okay, this is huge. This is going to change the way all social media works

613
00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:40,000
It's just a matter of timeline of like when the adoption curve really starts. They hit. We're nowhere near that by the way

614
00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:42,000
um

615
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,520
but um

616
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:50,000
I think that uh, this is really important and it's very exciting very exciting for me to know that

617
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:52,160
bitcoin

618
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:56,000
Is at the root of the currency system inside of this

619
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:01,200
this network this communication protocol and

620
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:09,600
Uh, you know if if I could go back and tell the 2017 2018 press thing that this is how this has shaken out

621
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,080
God, I would be

622
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:16,960
enamored right I'd be so excited that this is the way things have progressed because

623
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:22,400
I if you would have asked me back then I don't think that that's what I would have thought would have happened

624
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,480
I I actually thought that uh

625
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,040
A lot of these large social media

626
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:32,560
Yeah, I would have guessed that like the facebook's of the world would have gone in there spent a lot of money on lobbying

627
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:40,400
Convinced, you know that that they would be allowed to do this with huge cup or huge donations to political candidates because I mean

628
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,840
Naturally wash and cash. Yeah, and yeah

629
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:46,800
And so the way that it played out

630
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:48,960
It's really exciting

631
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:56,240
And one one other thing about jag when when I would watch him be called to converse along with all the other social media

632
00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:58,240
uh empire controllers

633
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:00,080
and

634
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:05,040
Basically called to the carpet to answer I could just see the look on his face

635
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:07,440
was

636
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,600
Dear god like decentralized social media can't come fast enough

637
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:20,080
And it's going to it's going to remove all of this insanity that these idiots think that they can control speech

638
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:26,800
And it's going to it's going to slap them so hard across the face that they're not going to know what's happened

639
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:33,120
And that's exactly what nostre is like it is it's brewing. It's free speech. You can't turn it off

640
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,000
And it is beyond exciting

641
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:41,600
I think I'm just as excited about nostres. I am about bitcoin because it ensures free speech

642
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,080
which is

643
00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:46,720
At par with free and open money

644
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:55,040
Absolutely, and I think that what you touched on there is so important which is having bitcoin as it doesn't have to be bitcoin

645
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,960
It could be something else that is used as you know for zaps

646
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:04,560
But it is bitcoin because a lot of the people that are building on nostre are

647
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,000
Bitcoin bitcoiners and maybe bitcoin devs

648
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:12,560
And so they started that from from the very beginning and I think that

649
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:18,480
Because of that you have this what could have gone a very different direction had other people

650
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,000
uh, let's say had the had the uh, had the crypto world

651
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:23,360
seen

652
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:28,320
Nostre earlier and thought oh, I can I can make some make a quick buck off of that

653
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:33,520
Maybe things would have gone differently, but thankfully it seems that uh, most of them have ignored

654
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,640
Nostre for now. By the way, I do still say uh, Nostre

655
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:41,520
Uh, not Nostre and I'm just I'll die on that hill. That's just a quick aside

656
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:42,960
but

657
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:48,240
It goes back to what you were saying earlier, which is about uh, kind of having integrity at the core of something

658
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:53,280
Having truth at the core of something because the fact that bitcoin is the

659
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:59,360
I mean bitcoin is the the native currency of the internet, right? And it's right now. It is the the uh,

660
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:06,080
The money that is used on Nostre that enables you to not only have that completely free and open expression

661
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:10,640
But to assign value to the manifestation of that expression

662
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:16,960
through a free and open monetary protocol, which again has truth at its core

663
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:22,240
So you have these these two things working in parallel that are so powerful

664
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:24,080
separately

665
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:29,680
But then together I don't think we can even entirely conceive of where this is

666
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,760
potentially going next because again right now it's it's just

667
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:38,240
Social media, right? We've got a lot of twitter clones and uh, you know,

668
00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:40,960
You know, sub stack type clones and things like that

669
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,320
Which is great because you've got to start somewhere and you start with what you know

670
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:49,200
And what's familiar and what people are looking for an alternative to in the current system

671
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:54,800
But where does it go next and what kind of potential does that have? I know uh, Pablo Pablo F7z is

672
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,480
Building all sorts of just wild things at all times

673
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,560
um, you know from just different writing tools and bookmarking tools and then you start to

674
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:09,760
Uh, gg wrote a great piece of purple text orange highlights. I don't know if you've had a chance to read it. It's I hadn't seen that yet

675
00:52:10,240 --> 00:52:12,240
It's it's fantastic. Uh

676
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:16,560
But going over like what does that value enabled?

677
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:18,000
uh

678
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,000
web really look like and

679
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:26,800
No, sir because of its simplicity and beauty and bitcoin because of its openness and simplicity

680
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:35,760
It's taking us in a direction that makes me really hopeful about the world at a time where it's very easy to get sucked into the

681
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:38,960
the twitter slash x

682
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:41,520
paradigm of just being

683
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:47,520
Rage baited by the algorithm at all times it gives you a feeling of having more actual control

684
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:49,600
You know bitcoin is giving you control of your money

685
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,920
No, sir is giving you control over your experience with the social internet

686
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,200
And I think that that's a really beautiful thing and you see the positivity

687
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:04,080
That is just exploding out of no, sir. Although it may still be small, you know, maybe what a little over 500 000

688
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:07,120
Active users at any given time. That's that's tiny

689
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:09,280
that is tiny

690
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:10,240
but

691
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:15,200
It has I think and will have an outsized impact as it continues to just grow upward

692
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,680
We're we're it's still early as we'd say

693
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,200
two two points that I that I want to say because

694
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,640
The I said that I think it's just as important as bitcoin

695
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:27,520
I think bitcoiners might kind of roll their eyes like come on man

696
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:31,280
Like it can't be as important as money itself. But but here's why

697
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:37,200
If I was going to send you an energy packet like let's just say I had a ball of energy and I'm going to send it

698
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:39,280
okay

699
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:44,160
How can I send that to you if there's not a way for us to communicate the address?

700
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:47,920
Right like I have to have

701
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:52,640
a a line of communication to you to coordinate

702
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,240
the address of where it needs to be received

703
00:53:56,720 --> 00:53:58,720
You don't necessarily have to know where it's coming from

704
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:03,040
but you do have to know the address where the energy packets going to be delivered and

705
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,440
if you have

706
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,440
If you can't control

707
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,320
If somebody can control those lines

708
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:16,960
Right then it can always be corrupted the the address can be corrupted

709
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,520
So you can have the most pure money on the planet

710
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:24,960
Okay, the the best form of money that's ever been invented, which is bitcoin

711
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:31,360
But how can I ensure that it actually arrives at the address that that needs to be delivered without

712
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:35,520
Unsensible speech a communication a coordination layer

713
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,080
Nostra is that

714
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:46,000
Nostra is this this coordination layer so that you can always ensure that the address is is properly received

715
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,800
And I can't say that about any other

716
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:55,200
You know everyone's like oh well you got signal you got off now like those there are

717
00:54:55,440 --> 00:55:02,160
Companies yep that manage these applications sure. It's an encrypted line

718
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:06,480
Is as far as you know, can you audit their code? I sure as heck can't

719
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:12,240
But I think Nostra is providing something here that

720
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,200
like

721
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:21,040
Like the how profound this is is being lost on a lot of people and

722
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:24,640
And like bitcoin

723
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:30,800
It's only a matter of time until the network effect takes over and this is going to be

724
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:35,520
massive huge the other thing that I that I wanted to just clarify

725
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:42,080
When I was talking about my concern back in like the 2017 time frame of a facebook or

726
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:46,480
Or a twitter or whoever standing out. I wasn't concerned about twitter because of jacobit

727
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,440
Any of these large social media platforms creating their own coin

728
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:54,160
Even back then

729
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,680
I was of the opinion that there's no way it's going to win in the long run

730
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,200
Because they will always be corruptible

731
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:07,120
When when those units are being controlled by any entity

732
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,120
It can always be corruptible by politicians or whoever

733
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:16,720
But what I was concerned with was the timeline being extended out to the right

734
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:21,040
Because of how many people would be duped into using such a thing

735
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:29,440
You know, it could extend the timeline to to bitcoin adoption by an extra decade because of some, you know, large behemoth

736
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:34,560
Inserting a coin that you know, it's a profitable company. So they don't need to debase the coins

737
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:38,240
But they're still corruptible by politicians. So just to want to like

738
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:47,200
Say that so people understand that that's not a risk even moving forward or any other altcoin to ever be concerned with because they can always be corrupted

739
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:51,840
And I think that that is a really important point is that anytime you have a

740
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:58,960
A point of centralization anytime there is a throat to choke, you know a a head to chop off

741
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,400
That will always inherently be vulnerable

742
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,480
It may exist and do well for a while

743
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,480
But it is always going to trend towards more centralization

744
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:16,240
And it is always as you said corruptible and there's just there's just no way around that

745
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:23,440
Except for you know, taking that centralization and breaking it all out and decentralizing it and and otherwise it just

746
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:28,800
The end result is always the same and and and we see this and just speaking of corruptibility

747
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,080
We know that in our in our current system

748
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:37,680
Uh, things are in our current monetary system. Things are just they are incredibly corrupt our political

749
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:43,680
Structure is corrupt. Our our money is broken and that has broken so many other things in our system. We see

750
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:45,680
geriatric

751
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:50,080
politicians, uh, I mean, I'm sure you I think you shared it actually the recent mcconnell

752
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:54,480
video where you see somebody who is one of our elected representatives

753
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:57,520
Who has a tremendous amount of power who?

754
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,320
I mean who should probably

755
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:05,840
He should probably be hospitalized and and under I mean, I'm sure he's under 24 hour watch because he's a very powerful guy

756
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:08,000
You know he's being watched by his handlers

757
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:11,920
by vinnie or whoever it was in that video who had to come and kind of jog him awake a little bit

758
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:13,920
but

759
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,280
I think that it's it's frustrated people are there's a frustration building

760
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:23,760
In people and and you and you sense this and a lot of people while they may have complied during

761
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:25,760
Even those people were very

762
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,000
Complying during the covet lock-duns and things like that

763
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:33,920
That built up frustration and resentment and now you see as we come out the other side of this

764
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:39,920
And they start talking about going back to these sorts of things and you see these geriatric politicians who are

765
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:42,080
Very obviously

766
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:47,440
Should not be in that position anymore and and it's it's it's clear to everybody and there's frustration building

767
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,000
but so much of that frustration

768
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,080
is directed at

769
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:57,040
Whichever, you know if you're a red person on the red team you directed at the blue team because they're in charge

770
00:58:57,040 --> 00:58:59,040
And if you're in the blue team you directed at the red team

771
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,640
So many people still and it will probably take a long time

772
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,080
Miss the fact that it's so much deeper than that and it's the fact that

773
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:12,000
Because our money is broken. It has broken the incentive structures within the systems that govern us

774
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:14,000
Yeah, and so

775
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:19,600
I'm curious to get your take on where you see for instance in this next election cycle

776
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:21,920
We have

777
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:29,520
Three now because I believe Francisco Suarez did not make the cut. So he's he's out. Uh, but we have three pro bitcoin

778
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,080
politicians that are

779
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:39,200
Vocally talking about bitcoin wanting to protect it some with greater degrees of knowledge than others. That's very evident

780
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:41,840
but this is a

781
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:43,840
Big shift in the overton window

782
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:50,880
About what is the acceptable public discourse during an election year and do you I'm curious if you see

783
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,680
Over this next, uh, you know year and a half

784
00:59:54,480 --> 01:00:01,200
Do you see the conversation starting the the mainstream conversation starting to get at more of the root causes

785
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:03,760
of issues because

786
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:07,760
Bitcoin which is a a truth machine has been brought into the equation

787
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:13,520
And now when you start talking about bitcoin, you have to necessarily talk about what's broken in the current system

788
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:18,240
Does that the conversation that we bit coiners have all the time?

789
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,600
Uh, does that conversation about broken money

790
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:27,600
Start to feed into the mainstream more and do we start to see that that people really start to realize?

791
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:31,600
You know what? It's not just coca-cola or Pepsi-cola. This is a false dichotomy

792
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:37,680
Created to distract me from the fact that the people pulling the strings are the ones that have the control over the money

793
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:39,680
yeah

794
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:49,840
I think that what's driving that more that bitcoin is just the inflation rate and the difficulty for most households to uh pay for what they

795
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,240
they felt like was

796
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:58,160
Not that it was easy, but it was much easier for them to just live their day today life and sustain their their level of

797
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:05,280
Uh, what's the word i'm looking for a standard of living they're saying yeah, thank you. Yeah, that's exactly

798
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:10,800
Um, they're they're they're not able to sustain that anymore, especially if they move like if their house wasn't paid for

799
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:15,520
And they got to move like sure they got the bump but like they can't afford the the same type of house now

800
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:18,880
Right, so they're seeing their their standard of living step down

801
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:25,440
And I think that that's driving more like what's causing this like do they actually have things under control?

802
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:28,080
Maybe they're just handing out money to like all these college students

803
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:34,960
They don't have to pay their their bills anymore and like like I think that's where the general population is at with all of this

804
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:41,600
And I think bitcoin for that for that day-to-day person they're they hear bitcoin and they're like

805
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:44,800
Honestly, this is how I think most people see this like

806
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:52,320
Oh, isn't that that thing where like all those crypto bros where people are wearing like the goofy glasses and the weirdly shaved

807
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,520
Beards like that's that's all those people right?

808
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:59,200
I think that's where the general population is right now actually now

809
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:00,800
agree

810
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:02,160
That doesn't matter

811
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:05,120
Yeah, because the the true the true

812
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:11,920
um bitcoin moment is going to be all of the bond tranches converting

813
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:15,440
Uh that buying power into bitcoin

814
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:20,240
And it doesn't even have to be a large amount like even 1 percent of like all that buying power

815
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:26,720
Pen up and and fixed income coming into bitcoin is going to actually cause the price to to take off and then people are going to be like

816
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:32,480
Okay, so you're telling me people are paying a couple hundred thousand dollars for an imaginary coin like what am I missing?

817
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:38,160
Like how is that possible and then that's going to drive the general population to like

818
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:43,280
Uh really start to dig in and maybe understand why they're not there right now. They are not there

819
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:48,480
And uh, and you know what they don't have any buying power anyway, like if you want to have a hundred people

820
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:52,880
They don't have money anyway like they're dead up to their eyeballs. So it's not like they're going to draw a bitcoin

821
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:55,680
It's not that they're just not

822
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:56,320
um

823
01:02:56,320 --> 01:03:02,400
The thing that's going to drive bitcoin is is the movement of all this pent up stored energy which is in fixed income

824
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:04,800
Moving into bitcoin. That's what's going to cause it

825
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:07,440
and and do you I

826
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:10,320
I I am hesitant to ask about uh

827
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:16,320
potential timelines for something like this because obviously it's it's you know extremely difficult to

828
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:20,320
Uh to estimate but based on what you are seeing

829
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:28,320
Uh in in marcus now you obviously have exposure to through you know your podcast, but also, uh, you know, you have your own fund as well

830
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:30,000
Uh

831
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:34,160
You have exposure to the the broad macro landscape

832
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,200
What do you kind of uh

833
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,520
Let's say what should the

834
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:41,920
The average person uh

835
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:45,920
The average bitcoin or let's say or bitcoin curious person

836
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:52,560
What should they be looking for what should they be thinking about what what are some things to pay attention to for them for somebody?

837
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:54,160
Who's perhaps not

838
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,640
Doesn't necessarily have the time to go really deep into things

839
01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:02,320
Uh, but wants to be a little bit more aware of what's going on in that broader macro world

840
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:09,120
What should they be looking for what are what are kind of what are the writings on the wall that they should be uh scouting for?

841
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:11,120
So, um

842
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:14,160
How do I explain this for?

843
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:22,480
Uh, yeah, and you and you don't have to simplify too much, but just maybe it's a better question to ask. What are you looking for?

844
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:31,680
Uh, okay, so for me, I'm just looking at cycles. So you go through, you know, there's these big long-term cycles

845
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:33,680
Then you have the shorter term cycles

846
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:41,520
Um, we are we are currently going through a short term cycle and where I think we're at in that short term cycle is

847
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:43,600
I think you're starting to see

848
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:47,840
Um, the the credit market is screaming that a recession is coming

849
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:55,840
Uh, you can see this in the credit market because the the interest rate that you get on short money short duration money like three month

850
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:57,520
note

851
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:00,880
Is giving you a higher return than a 30 year bond

852
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:02,800
which

853
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:08,800
For a person who they might think I miss said but I didn't miss a like three month money will give you a higher yield

854
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,000
Then then somebody who's locking up money for 30 years

855
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,520
And that's that inversion that you're looking for that's basically saying, okay

856
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:19,920
Something something funky's going on. So here I just pulled

857
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:23,360
Ships, uh

858
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,000
Screwed okay

859
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:29,360
All right, so, uh, wait till this loads

860
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:38,240
So when we're when we're talking about that inversion where like this really short duration money has given you a higher yield than really long duration money

861
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:46,000
This this historically is a moment when that peaks out when that becomes that inversion is deeply negative

862
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:48,560
When it starts to reverse itself

863
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:57,360
Is is when you can you're basically saying that's the top inequities and when it starts peeking out again in the future

864
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:58,800
Which we're not there

865
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,120
Uh, that's when you're going to see the bottom in stocks

866
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:08,880
Okay, so, uh, look at this chart. Uh, can you see my mouse? Oh, yeah, I think you guys can see it

867
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:16,640
So going back here. This is 2006. Okay. And so for people that are familiar with like the s and p 500

868
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:22,960
The s and p 500 is here on this bottom chart. Okay, and then this is your yield curve inversion. So here's zero

869
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:27,360
Okay, zero percent and this is this is a bunch of different

870
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:32,960
Uh comparisons. So like it's the 10 year minus the two year. It's the 30 year minus the three month

871
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:38,880
It's the 10 year minus the five year and I put these on here because what they're doing is they're showing

872
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:45,760
If we would go back in time to 2006 the beginning of 2007 you were at the deepest part of this inversion

873
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:51,360
Okay, and when you look at where the stock market was at during this deep inversion on this bottom chart

874
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,080
You can see it was peeking out the stock market was hitting its high

875
01:06:54,080 --> 01:07:02,320
Then what you have is is once you you start getting impairment in this fractional reserve system. And so what that means is

876
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:08,480
The units in the global economy like people are accustomed to seeing a dollar in their pocket

877
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:15,200
And that being money, right? But most of that money is actually ios and debt

878
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:20,400
Okay, and people were trading around that debt like let's say I had a thousand dollars worth of debt

879
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:25,120
And I give it to you that somebody owes me right like somebody owes me a thousand bucks

880
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,920
I can give you that certificate or that piece of paper

881
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:31,120
Walker and now somebody owes you a thousand dollars

882
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:37,920
Okay, and so those those ios trade like money or they they they spend like money

883
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:41,040
Like let's say I wanted to buy something from you. That's

884
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:48,320
That was a thousand dollars like some laptop or something and I give you this this note that says that

885
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:54,880
Billy Bob owes you a thousand dollars now and you gladly accept it because you know Billy Bob is good for it

886
01:07:54,880 --> 01:08:01,120
He's also going to pay you some coupons between now and the maturity of that note and then you give me the laptop

887
01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:03,520
But the problem is

888
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:08,560
Now you're dependent on Billy Bob actually having that money and this is probably one of the best names

889
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:12,000
I've ever come up with for uh, you know an example. I love it

890
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:15,360
So all of a sudden Billy Bob don't have the money

891
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:20,960
Right and and and all of a sudden you actually were using that thousand dollar

892
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:26,480
coupon that Billy Bob owed you to go out and say I'm good for this other thing

893
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:31,360
I'm going to create another iou with Carla for five hundred dollars

894
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:36,720
Right because I have this thousand dollars that I'm going to that I'm going to collect from Billy Bob

895
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:38,800
So Carla I'm good for it

896
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:42,400
Right, this would be your pitch to her to give you something for five hundred bucks

897
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:45,680
Right and so what you can see is there's this

898
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:48,640
There's this system of iou's

899
01:08:49,440 --> 01:08:53,360
That naturally stand up through a fractional reserve system

900
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:59,920
Now when Billy Bob doesn't have the thousand bucks, he comes to you and he says hey, we need to renegotiate these terms

901
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:04,000
He doesn't typically default on the full thousand. He'll come to you and say

902
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:11,120
Hey, brother, I don't have it. I just don't have it. Uh, uh, let's do five hundred bucks, right? And you're like

903
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:14,720
Okay, I can deal with five hundred because I owe Carla five

904
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:19,680
So so what you're doing is you're going to Carla's like I don't have this guy owed me some money

905
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:24,240
Uh, I can give you two fifty and you're trying to get her to sell

906
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:27,920
Right, even though you're getting the five hundred you're trying to get her to sell for the smaller

907
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:30,560
And so this is called impairment

908
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:34,720
Okay, and when when the uh

909
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:39,600
When you have these made up iou's and they start to contract

910
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:45,200
What happens is is this proliferates itself throughout the entire global economy

911
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:51,520
Of the units being destroyed and disappearing. So what happens when that when that's taking place

912
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,440
There's less units. So the prices of everything else that you're measuring

913
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:59,040
Them in which are these units has to go down

914
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:05,760
Okay, if you read books or you go to like business school or whatever they'll be like, oh, yeah

915
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:12,720
So every so you know every eight years you get this contagion situation where everybody just becomes greedy like out of nowhere

916
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:17,360
Everybody becomes who knows where it comes from. It's fear. Yeah, it's fear

917
01:10:17,440 --> 01:10:21,600
Like fear will drive people to sell things for lower prices

918
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:28,320
And everybody just becomes fearful when the prices go down like this is truly what they teach. It's it's calm

919
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:30,800
Right. It's not fear

920
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:34,560
It is inherent in a fractional reserve system

921
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:42,560
That as the iou's blow up they spill over into the next person and then everybody renegotiates and everything gets priced lower

922
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:44,640
So I would tell you

923
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:48,480
Right now and this chart that i'm showing you right now is a chart. I look at a lot

924
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:54,560
Um, when I look at how deeply negative this yield curve is going right now

925
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:58,320
I would tell you that it looks like it's finding a bottom

926
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:05,680
Um, you can see it in the 10 year minus the five year where it kind of made a new high and it's starting to try to like

927
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:08,560
Want to reverse itself? It doesn't mean it can't go lower

928
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:11,360
And I'm definitely not saying this is a bottom

929
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:16,640
But I'm saying it's looking like we're hitting a bottom like it's it's looking like it's starting to form right

930
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:20,640
And once it starts to unravel itself it actually picks up pace

931
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:26,960
It gets harder to control this without there being an enormous amount of debasement

932
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:31,920
Of the of the baseline money that the iou's are constructed on top of

933
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:33,760
Okay

934
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:35,760
They have to step in so um

935
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:40,880
Now what's what's really fascinating about this is if we take this little measuring tool

936
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:46,080
We kind of line it up right here and we look at how long did it take for this to bottom itself out?

937
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:54,000
Okay, you can see that from from where we were kind of hitting a bottom here in the credit inversion

938
01:11:54,000 --> 01:12:01,200
This was like 652 days on a real quick drawing here. Let's just call two years, right?

939
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:08,480
Where you hit a bottom in equities two years from this point of being in the bottom of this

940
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:15,200
So let's just say we are hitting the bottom right now on this yield curve inversion. I don't know but it's looking like we kind of

941
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:18,320
We're in 25

942
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:22,560
2025 before you'd be in the depths of a equity

943
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:24,560
Uh, Bob

944
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:26,880
And this is very important

945
01:12:27,440 --> 01:12:31,600
That's dependent that the central planners take a similar

946
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:38,720
Speed at which they handle this situation as they did in the 2007 to 2009 timeframe

947
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:41,200
Which may or may not be the case

948
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:45,200
Right, so they they may be looking at it right now

949
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:53,200
And they may be trying to do all sorts of you know backstop facilities and this and that that weren't done in the 2008 2009 crisis

950
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:56,960
That could extend things out longer than what we've seen historically

951
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:00,960
That's what makes all this really hard when you're saying from like a forecasting standpoint

952
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:06,320
Meanwhile, you have bitcoin. Okay, so like all of that's the macro

953
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:11,680
Jeff's what the people love to talk about but then like what's the so what for me who's just holding big one?

954
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:14,080
right the so what is

955
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:20,480
If they continue to allow the the uh, the impairment of credit units

956
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:26,320
You're gonna see bitcoin continue to kind of struggle and and uh,

957
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:29,600
You know because without an influx of buyers

958
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:34,240
Without an influx of people converting fixed income into bitcoin

959
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:38,800
It's going to continue to just kind of like shrug it along right? I think it's going to be fine

960
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:44,400
I think it's going to continue to go up in the coming year and the halving will definitely have an impact too because now

961
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:46,720
Your inflation rate is half

962
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:51,440
So like all of these things have an impact and I think that as long as you have

963
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:53,920
Hodlers of last resort

964
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:57,760
The trace may or term which I think is very underestimated

965
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:00,480
um

966
01:14:00,480 --> 01:14:05,440
Psychopaths like you and me that will hold if the price goes to 10,000 where it's like well, that's what it does

967
01:14:05,440 --> 01:14:11,920
Yeah, I'm just going to keep buying more like not too many assets on the planet that that

968
01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:16,560
That's your user base or those are your owners think and act like that

969
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:21,440
Okay, but in bitcoin that's truly that the people who hold the lion's share of coins

970
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:25,280
That's how they think because for a lot of them their basis is five dollars

971
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:30,960
Right, so if your basis and this is something that if somebody from wall streets listen to this

972
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:33,680
This is what I want you to take home

973
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:37,680
If your basis is five bucks or your basis is 30 cents

974
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:42,640
Do you think that person cares whether it goes from 26,000 to 10,000?

975
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:46,000
Nope

976
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:50,800
Guess what those are the people that hold a lion's share of the bitcoin in the world

977
01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:55,200
Okay, just think about that next time you you you call it

978
01:14:55,360 --> 01:15:01,520
It's it's going to zero or that it's going to die like we're all just sitting back here laughing at you sir

979
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:08,080
We are we're laughing at you. We think you're an idiot because we we don't think that you understand like how this actually works and like

980
01:15:08,480 --> 01:15:11,440
that this this is a this is a takeover and

981
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:18,400
We're sucking all the monetary energy out of the global economy and we're stuffing it into bitcoin and we're going to recap all the equity

982
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:23,520
So congratulations. You played yourself. We're here. We're taking over and we're doing it with a smile

983
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:25,680
And we're trying to be kind we're trying to educate people

984
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:27,840
uh

985
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:32,640
A little bit of my southern accent was coming out there. Oh, okay. I loved it. I love this

986
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:39,520
I wish I wish I had a five dollar cost basis. Um, I that that would be lovely, but I will also psychopathically hold

987
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:46,000
Uh, well no matter what because it's it's my savings technology. That's that's how I look at it

988
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:50,160
I also enjoy spending it. Um, no stores a great way for me to spend it

989
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:53,920
But it is how I save and honestly before

990
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:59,760
Bitcoin I was not always the most uh, uh, disciplined saver

991
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:02,720
But through bitcoin I have found this way where it's like nope

992
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:07,440
That's that is where I just put my money and I know that it's not money that I need tomorrow

993
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:12,480
It's money that I am saving for um myself for carla for our future children

994
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:19,440
One of them is on the way and and it's it's so uh, it became so much easier to save

995
01:16:19,440 --> 01:16:24,480
When I changed that perspective to I I'm not looking at this for oh, yeah

996
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:29,680
Do I follow the price of bitcoin? Of course I do because I'm curious how many uh sats

997
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:35,200
I'm gonna get for my us dollar for my lovely, you know fiat how much how many sats am I gonna get for that?

998
01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:38,720
But I'm not looking at it to say I'm not I'm not a trader

999
01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:42,640
You know, I'm just somebody who is trying to work hard to save my money

1000
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:47,360
In the hardest form of money that exists and to look at it with a long-term horizon

1001
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:52,960
And when you approach it from that perspective, I think it gives you a great deal of peace honestly because

1002
01:16:53,040 --> 01:16:53,920
It really is

1003
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:59,040
You you don't sweat the small stuff and for anybody listening. I am not a bitcoin og

1004
01:16:59,440 --> 01:17:04,480
I think I bought my uh first few sats at december 2019

1005
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:07,040
uh, and then but didn't really uh

1006
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:14,480
Think that much of it and then went down the rabbit hole deeply in 2020 when I started seeing the government just handing out

1007
01:17:14,480 --> 01:17:19,440
Stimulus checks at the same time as they were locking people, you know locking people down

1008
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:22,160
And I said, okay something is really messed up

1009
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:29,920
And that I think for a lot of people that was when uh, no this uh, this class of bitcoiners of which I am one

1010
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:34,800
Kind of came in and said oh wow, okay. This is this is something I really need to pay attention to

1011
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:37,040
I need to learn what is actually going on with our money

1012
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:39,600
and I think a lot of people uh to uh

1013
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:43,600
To switch gears slightly but stay in a bit of the the fiat lens here

1014
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:46,960
A lot of people and I saw this on noster and some of the questions

1015
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:53,040
A lot of people have trouble understanding the lag that happens with fiat monetary policy

1016
01:17:53,360 --> 01:18:00,240
Because it's not like they make a change and the effects are immediately felt their response to uh the uh,

1017
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:02,400
COVID uh

1018
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:03,760
emergency

1019
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:06,880
Was to create ungodly amounts of money

1020
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:11,360
Extremely quickly to rapidly expand the base money

1021
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:20,640
Those effects weren't necessarily felt right away people didn't you know prices uh didn't start reflecting that massive debasement

1022
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:23,280
For some time after that

1023
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:28,400
And now you know, we've actually had a a contraction in that m2 money. The Fed has been tightening

1024
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:33,760
They've been raising interest rates at a historically fast pace which a lot of people

1025
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:36,880
Thought that maybe that wasn't ever going to be possible for the Fed again

1026
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:41,840
Maybe they were going to be stuck at QE infinity rates are near zero forever

1027
01:18:42,480 --> 01:18:45,200
So do you have any perspective on a kind of

1028
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:51,280
Again, there's always going to be a lag with monetary policy. We're going to feel the real effects of the Fed's decisions in the future

1029
01:18:52,480 --> 01:18:55,200
Uh, what do you think is

1030
01:18:56,880 --> 01:19:00,480
Is really what do you think is the Fed's uh

1031
01:19:00,480 --> 01:19:04,960
Next move not in terms of do they raise rates or keep them steady at the next meeting?

1032
01:19:05,360 --> 01:19:07,360
But more so at a larger scale

1033
01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:11,120
Do you think they end up in just adjusting the inflation target?

1034
01:19:11,600 --> 01:19:17,520
To so it's no longer a target of 2 but as we recently saw Paul Krugman, you know promoting

1035
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:24,080
Maybe three another arbitrary number 3 is a good idea. Maybe maybe that's a fax machine. I didn't have my fax machine

1036
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:27,840
Set up. I didn't see that. You missed it. You missed it. Yeah

1037
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:34,400
So let me let me pause on answering the Fed question and just say one other thing that I think complements this

1038
01:19:34,720 --> 01:19:36,720
so, um

1039
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:42,240
When people when we start talking about macro we talk about all these things that are influencing bitcoin

1040
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:49,120
There's also bitcoin itself, which is is in its own kind of cycle and like I would argue right now

1041
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:54,720
There's so much seller suffocation that's taken place that you're just compressing bitcoin

1042
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:59,200
Like a spring and like maybe there's this thing with finance and maybe wall street's gonna pop

1043
01:19:59,840 --> 01:20:06,160
Binance like a zit and it's gonna compress it even more for a very short period of time and then like I think the spring is gonna release itself

1044
01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:13,200
There's this idea in physics where you talk about constructive interference and destructive interference

1045
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:19,520
And what this is is when you have two waves, right? Let's say they're of equal amplitude

1046
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:25,920
And you put them uh, well, I mean your bows headsets do this noise canceling technology is a destructive interference wave

1047
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:29,280
Yeah, that's that's canceling out a consistent sound

1048
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:34,400
You could take that same thing and you could you could shift it 180 degrees

1049
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:38,160
And all of a sudden like you're getting these blowouts and magnitude

1050
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:43,440
And so when I think of bitcoin and I think of macro and I think of them side by side

1051
01:20:43,440 --> 01:20:46,320
I think of these waves where some of these waves are actually

1052
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:50,320
You know, when you think of them side by side, I think of these waves where sometimes

1053
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:54,720
You have destructive interference and sometimes you have constructive interference

1054
01:20:55,280 --> 01:20:59,600
And what that's doing is is you're sometimes seeing these really outsized performance

1055
01:20:59,920 --> 01:21:01,920
Sometimes it feels like it's going nowhere

1056
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:06,320
And what it is is it's it's two waves different frequencies

1057
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:12,080
Different magnitudes that are causing people to to want to assign

1058
01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:14,640
Well, this is what happened and this is why it happened

1059
01:21:14,640 --> 01:21:21,440
Right when in fact you you're not having an appreciation for how complex and how

1060
01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:27,200
Difficult it is to forecast something like that when you're dealing with and I'm just talking about two waves

1061
01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:29,200
There's other factors beyond that

1062
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:36,880
That that kind of really weigh into all so I would I would preface all of this conversation with that simple understanding and then

1063
01:21:37,440 --> 01:21:39,440
To answer your question about the fed

1064
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:42,160
I think that um

1065
01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:49,440
The real challenge that they have if like if I'm sitting in the fed chair, I'm just kind of assessing like how I would do this job

1066
01:21:50,480 --> 01:21:51,840
Um

1067
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:55,120
A it all comes down to just trying to keep as much

1068
01:21:56,000 --> 01:22:00,160
Social unrest and bay is possible. Like that's where my head's at

1069
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:06,800
Uh, I'm looking at it from a coordination standpoint big time like way more than I think

1070
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:13,920
Uh, any type of elected official would realize is that these central banks over in Europe here in the u.s.

1071
01:22:14,480 --> 01:22:15,920
Japan like

1072
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:19,280
They are they are totally coordinating with each other

1073
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:24,960
deeply coordinating with each other you can't go to any type of real meeting without them all being together

1074
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:29,600
And the challenge that they have is Europe is a train wreck

1075
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:34,560
In Europe as a train wreck because they're dependent on outsourced energy

1076
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:39,440
Right, and that's what this is a whole of the whole ukraine rusher thing. It's all about that

1077
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:44,560
It's all about Europe having no control over their energy input

1078
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:47,600
Which means they have no control over the price of anything

1079
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:56,720
And if they can't control the price of anything they can't control this iou network that is priced off of the the inflation rate

1080
01:22:57,280 --> 01:22:58,560
so like

1081
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:01,920
Like a bond right like if you tell me the inflation rate it's 2 percent

1082
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:05,920
I'm going to tell you well the bond should probably be like yielding like 4 percent depending on the duration

1083
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:08,400
like there needs to be some type of

1084
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:17,600
Advantage for somebody to own that that thing if inflation is 2 percent well over in the uk the inflation rate is like 12 percent

1085
01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:19,680
Or like 11 and a half percent

1086
01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:27,120
So that tells me that that their fixed income market should be at least like 13 percent or 14 percent. It's nowhere near that

1087
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:34,640
Right, so going back to the question if i'm j pow and i'm trying to like make decisions and I have

1088
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:40,240
this friend that I have to that that I have to harmonize with

1089
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:45,040
Because it all falls apart. They like if they're not in harmony with each other in their decision making

1090
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:47,600
and it's like this dude

1091
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:54,480
Is getting murdered over there right now with respect to their the runaway inflation

1092
01:23:54,480 --> 01:23:59,520
Which is completely outside of their control because it's the energy input

1093
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:05,040
Right and like they're having to make decisions around that so like

1094
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:10,160
Although we're supposedly at two and a half percent depending depending on how they like

1095
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:14,320
Define the magnitude of this bucket that they're managing for cpi

1096
01:24:15,440 --> 01:24:19,120
If it was truly 2 percent, I think that they would be uh, you know

1097
01:24:19,120 --> 01:24:24,480
You know letting up and not continuing to to press the the the break on

1098
01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:27,200
Uh by raising rates higher

1099
01:24:27,440 --> 01:24:33,200
I think the issue for them is actually europe and that they have to try to get inflation global

1100
01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:36,000
Or let me let me rephrase that g7

1101
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:41,280
Uh inflation under control collectively as a group. That's what they have to do

1102
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:48,240
And so I think a lot of their decision making is based around that and I think that they're going to continue to raise rates until they actually

1103
01:24:48,240 --> 01:24:50,240
start to see like

1104
01:24:50,240 --> 01:24:51,760
uh

1105
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:56,400
Demand just leave the market completely like you still have a ton of people

1106
01:24:56,880 --> 01:24:58,880
A ton of demand is starting to roll over

1107
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:04,960
But they're gonna keep the they're gonna keep pressing harder on the break until it truly truly rolls over to include europe

1108
01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:12,960
I think it's it's such an interesting thing to me that when I think the more you study bitcoin and you realize it's

1109
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:20,000
Simplicity and the fact that about every four years, uh, which is it's actually measured in the blocks, you know 210 000 blocks

1110
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:27,120
The new issuance of bitcoin per block is cut in half. It's an exponentially decreasing new supply

1111
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:32,000
And you think about that and you're like, wow, that's that's really simple and easy to understand

1112
01:25:32,640 --> 01:25:36,800
And I know exactly what's going to happen at this date and this date and this date in the future

1113
01:25:37,760 --> 01:25:40,160
Wow, I can plan for my life. That's wonderful. That's right

1114
01:25:40,160 --> 01:25:44,000
And then and then you take a look back at the system that we're in

1115
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:49,680
And you realize that you know these these cycles that as you were you know joking earlier

1116
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:56,640
People just get fearful and something happens in the you know, the animal spirits of the market take over and something happens

1117
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:03,680
It's just so absurd because you have when if you listen to the the fed folks or any central bankers talk

1118
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:09,120
They actively talk about wanting to okay, you know, we want to suppress demand or we want to stimulate demand

1119
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:13,600
Or you know, like we need to inject liquidity in the market. We need to remove liquidity from the market

1120
01:26:14,480 --> 01:26:16,480
It's this incredible hubris

1121
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:20,240
That that they somehow think that they can play god

1122
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:24,720
In a world of eight plus billion people

1123
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:30,080
That they can play god and be able to somehow perfectly engineer

1124
01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:36,320
This this system to work just fine and we just have to push here and pull here and it'll all work great

1125
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:42,880
And sure it creates an endless cycle of booms and busts and throughout those booms and busts us and all of our friends

1126
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:43,760
We're fine

1127
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:44,560
But yeah, sure

1128
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:49,920
Maybe the average person is getting hurt and losing their job and it's really rough for them and you know

1129
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:52,720
You risk social unrest across the world

1130
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:58,240
But hey for the most part it's you know, it's mostly peaceful and people are mostly okay

1131
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:02,400
But thank goodness they don't realize that we're just jerking them along by a chain

1132
01:27:02,400 --> 01:27:08,160
You know giving them a treat occasionally and then you know, it's a it's a little carrot and then a stick just forever and ever

1133
01:27:08,240 --> 01:27:10,240
Like some sort of monetary purgatory

1134
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:13,600
And then you contrast that with bitcoin you say god

1135
01:27:13,600 --> 01:27:17,120
I'm so grateful that I have this thing that is so simple

1136
01:27:17,680 --> 01:27:20,400
Yeah, that I don't have to worry about what a bunch of

1137
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:27,360
Old people in a closed-door session are going to decide this month about the entire world's money

1138
01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:32,080
Like I can just I can just go on my note and I yep still

1139
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:34,400
Still producing blocks

1140
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:36,160
About every 10 minutes

1141
01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:39,680
in their mind, I think a lot of them look back at

1142
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:44,000
Uh, you had this inflation episode in the in the 70s, right?

1143
01:27:44,480 --> 01:27:49,200
interest rates in 81 blue the 10 year treasury I think was around 16 percent

1144
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:51,600
And so they look at that

1145
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:56,960
And you look at their age and you look at for up until the 2008 crisis

1146
01:27:56,960 --> 01:28:01,200
I would argue in g7 countries and that's very important to emphasize

1147
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:03,040
the

1148
01:28:03,040 --> 01:28:08,000
uh social unrest was way down you saw prosperous you saw

1149
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:12,080
harmony amongst uh social and and economic

1150
01:28:13,440 --> 01:28:18,640
Classes for the most part up until 2008 and so from their from their mindset

1151
01:28:18,880 --> 01:28:25,120
We did an expert job pool on these strengths, you know, the world was just humming along and and you know what if you're not in the g7

1152
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:28,240
And you're one of these other countries walls who cares about them anyway

1153
01:28:28,480 --> 01:28:30,320
It's kind of their mindset

1154
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:35,840
And and that's how they that's the lens of like we're pretty phenomenal people here, right?

1155
01:28:36,480 --> 01:28:38,640
What why couldn't we fix this?

1156
01:28:39,200 --> 01:28:41,200
right kind of their mindset

1157
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:43,040
and uh

1158
01:28:43,040 --> 01:28:45,040
and I think uh

1159
01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:48,720
Since 2008 it's just been pure hubris driving

1160
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:53,840
Them thinking they can actually solve this and it's and it's a little bit of uh

1161
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:58,880
You know, I didn't even feel like I had found a solution until 2015 with bitcoin

1162
01:28:58,880 --> 01:29:04,960
So I think for them they're looking at and say well like how the world could we ever even even solve this thing?

1163
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:12,480
Without us continuing to pull these levers and and and save continue to save the world. I mean literally the ben Bernanke

1164
01:29:13,440 --> 01:29:18,080
Uh cover was the guy who basically saved the world uh cover

1165
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:24,960
So like these people believe this they believe that they are the only hope to keep social order

1166
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:28,480
at bay in the world and they definitely don't think that some

1167
01:29:29,280 --> 01:29:30,960
you know, uh

1168
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:38,960
Guy who created this protocol and then left after a couple years of creating it is is the thing that's the salvation here

1169
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:40,720
it's like

1170
01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:43,280
What do you mean? You're gonna take your hands completely off the machine

1171
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:47,840
I have to touch the machine a hundred times a day just to keep everything sane, right?

1172
01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:55,040
Yeah, it's such a great point and uh, that it actually brings me to another question that was asked on noster

1173
01:29:55,360 --> 01:29:57,360
Which is generally do you think that?

1174
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:03,520
As we move forward into the next uh, not just few years, but let's say a few decades. Let's you know zoom it out a little bit

1175
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:07,760
Do you think that bitcoin becomes a compliment?

1176
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:14,000
To the u.s. Dollar. I'm also curious at a in a more uh today's uh today's standpoint

1177
01:30:14,320 --> 01:30:18,240
What do you think about rfk jr's proposal to quote?

1178
01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:25,360
back the u.s. Dollar with gold silver platinum and bitcoin to quote him

1179
01:30:26,160 --> 01:30:29,440
Do you see it bitcoin as a compliment to the

1180
01:30:30,160 --> 01:30:35,600
To the status of the dollar and the value of the dollar. Do you think it is possible to back it to again?

1181
01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:41,040
I use back in quotes the dollar with bitcoin and precious metals again or is

1182
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:43,920
Is the fiat dollar too far gone?

1183
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:46,480
and

1184
01:30:46,480 --> 01:30:48,320
Where do you think that's going?

1185
01:30:48,320 --> 01:30:50,960
It's a big question. Yeah three points to this. Okay

1186
01:30:51,680 --> 01:30:52,720
a

1187
01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:56,880
Very impressed that rfk is is saying this

1188
01:30:57,680 --> 01:31:04,080
Because what it what it's actually demonstrating is that he has a profound understanding of the problem

1189
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:07,040
And a potential way to solve the problem

1190
01:31:07,680 --> 01:31:08,800
Okay

1191
01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:09,840
um

1192
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:16,480
Like very deep understanding now whether it's him or somebody else that's like, you know message this then I have no idea

1193
01:31:16,480 --> 01:31:24,160
But I can tell you on the face of it to me it demonstrates profound understanding of the issues that are happening and a and a path for

1194
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:27,760
The second point that I have is

1195
01:31:27,760 --> 01:31:33,360
This is for me a very academic solution

1196
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:39,440
And I say that because a lot of the times academic solutions like you can you can write it all out

1197
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:42,000
You can put it on a piece of paper and it's the right solution

1198
01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:43,840
You're going to get the hundred percent on your test

1199
01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:45,840
But in real life

1200
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:49,360
Billy Bob's going to throttle you and like you're just not going to win because

1201
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:53,840
Billy Bob is using the sound logic of like street smarts

1202
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:57,280
And he knows he can look at it like they ain't no work

1203
01:31:58,160 --> 01:31:59,280
So

1204
01:31:59,280 --> 01:32:04,560
I love that Billy Bob is now that he's like a recurring character for us. Yeah, it's fantastic. Yes Ricky Bob

1205
01:32:05,120 --> 01:32:07,120
uh even better

1206
01:32:09,440 --> 01:32:13,680
He races on the weekends, um, but anyway, so uh

1207
01:32:14,960 --> 01:32:18,080
I I think it's an academic solution now why I say that

1208
01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:21,120
Is I think in practicality

1209
01:32:21,120 --> 01:32:25,680
As soon as let's say let's say he becomes president

1210
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:28,240
Let's say he really goes after this policy

1211
01:32:28,480 --> 01:32:34,560
Let's say he can convince congress to go along with this policy because just because he can appoint the the person who leads the treasury

1212
01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:36,960
Doesn't mean that he actually has total control to run this

1213
01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:40,480
But so let's say he gets congress to implement something like this

1214
01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:47,440
Uh, because there's a whole lot of you know loose ends there that have to be tied up for this to even happen

1215
01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:49,680
Let's just say all that does happen

1216
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:55,120
And they roll out the first ball on tronch which has this backing this 1% backing

1217
01:32:56,000 --> 01:33:01,520
I think it sends such a profound message to the world that the dollars effed

1218
01:33:02,400 --> 01:33:08,320
that uh, it it causes this blow out and I think it it uh

1219
01:33:09,280 --> 01:33:11,280
It becomes unattainable

1220
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:14,000
because of the fact that you're doing it

1221
01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:16,160
interesting

1222
01:33:16,160 --> 01:33:18,160
and um, so

1223
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:22,880
So yeah, those are my thoughts around it, but I would I would say this bravo

1224
01:33:23,520 --> 01:33:30,720
Like I'm very impressed. You have you have demonstrated a deep intellectual knowledge and understanding of like what the problem is

1225
01:33:31,280 --> 01:33:39,280
how to potentially solve it and uh, you know, hopefully they fill their bags with bitcoin before they actually do this bond thing

1226
01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:44,160
right like if I was advising him I'd be like, yes, I love this

1227
01:33:44,160 --> 01:33:48,880
I love this. Uh, keep telling everybody that this is what we're gonna do and we are gonna do this

1228
01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:56,960
Right, but we're gonna do this after we print like ungodly amounts of dollars and exchange and go direct to miners

1229
01:33:57,360 --> 01:34:01,840
Right, like you're not stepping on the exchanges. No, you're going direct to every miner on the planet

1230
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:05,680
You're soaking up as much bitcoin that you can stack onto the treasury as possible

1231
01:34:06,240 --> 01:34:12,240
Right and then like when the price is is when there's no bitcoin left and the price is blowing out

1232
01:34:12,240 --> 01:34:16,000
I'm like whatever then you then you go and do that and you and then uh,

1233
01:34:16,480 --> 01:34:21,200
Then it really comes down to how do you change all of the inherent spending?

1234
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:25,600
Uh of the country which I think is going to be an enormous

1235
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:33,120
Like maybe not even possible challenge to orchestrate without there being intense pain for the general population

1236
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:36,000
Well, I mean that's the thing is that when it comes down to it

1237
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:43,520
We are we are deeply indebted as as a country in terms of the debt that our government has accrued on on our behalf

1238
01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:50,160
Lucky us, but also from a person. I know credit card debts over a over a trillion dollars at just a personal level

1239
01:34:50,160 --> 01:34:57,680
So you've got all these layers of debt, right? And you've got interest on the debt payments, which are just I mean

1240
01:34:58,800 --> 01:35:00,800
Going up up in a way

1241
01:35:01,040 --> 01:35:02,240
um

1242
01:35:02,240 --> 01:35:05,840
We also see on the other side of the world

1243
01:35:06,480 --> 01:35:09,600
the bricks basket of countries who are

1244
01:35:10,480 --> 01:35:15,600
Now moving towards, uh, you know, we're in a we're in a multipolar world now and there are

1245
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:18,880
The bricks which represents billions of people

1246
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:23,360
Yes, I'm curious of your thoughts on I've seen a lot of

1247
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:26,560
We don't have to go too deep in this but I've seen a lot of

1248
01:35:26,560 --> 01:35:32,000
Conflict the opinion some people saying this is the you know, they're so sure this is the debt of the the death of the dollar

1249
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:37,520
Excuse me not the debt of the dollar the death of the dollar other people who are so sure that this is a nothing burger

1250
01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:39,120
Some that are claiming well

1251
01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:44,480
It's actually going to skyrocket the price of gold because these these the bricks currency is going to be backed by a

1252
01:35:44,480 --> 01:35:49,280
basket of all their currencies and then also by gold which assumes that they'll open up their

1253
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:54,320
Uh, you know, let let each other audited each other's gold reserves, which I find highly unlikely

1254
01:35:54,320 --> 01:35:58,960
Uh, you know, but that's a different story. But I'd love your take on

1255
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:01,600
where you see bricks fitting into the

1256
01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:03,440
uh

1257
01:36:03,440 --> 01:36:09,840
The the future of world reserve currency status. Do you think this is a legitimate threat to the dollar?

1258
01:36:10,240 --> 01:36:14,640
Do you think this is something that is going to end up being hyped up a lot as a threat to the dollar?

1259
01:36:14,640 --> 01:36:18,000
But ultimately not change the paradigm too much or is it somewhere in between?

1260
01:36:18,000 --> 01:36:23,760
So I would refer to bricks as all those countries that are net producers

1261
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:31,920
Okay, and I would refer to g7 as all those countries that are net consumers

1262
01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:37,760
Okay, so let's start there because if you're a company and you're a net producer

1263
01:36:38,480 --> 01:36:39,440
Apple

1264
01:36:39,440 --> 01:36:40,560
Google

1265
01:36:40,560 --> 01:36:42,560
Companies that retain profits

1266
01:36:42,560 --> 01:36:47,760
Okay, if you're an individual and you have more debt next year than you had this year, you're a net consumer

1267
01:36:48,160 --> 01:36:53,200
If you're a person who has more savings next year than you have this year, you're a net producer

1268
01:36:53,360 --> 01:36:58,320
Same thing goes for companies. There's a ton of companies out there that don't make money

1269
01:36:58,960 --> 01:37:08,880
They just go to another VC round or they debase their shares by issuing more shares and that's how they offset their net consumption or their parasitic

1270
01:37:09,360 --> 01:37:10,560
activities

1271
01:37:10,560 --> 01:37:12,560
activities

1272
01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:17,760
Because if a company isn't making money year over year that company's a parasite and it needs to die

1273
01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:22,560
It needs to be replaced by a company that actually is profitable

1274
01:37:23,200 --> 01:37:28,000
Because that's how that's how society can progress and move forward. So why am I saying all this?

1275
01:37:28,800 --> 01:37:35,600
When we're talking about bricks because what I'm trying to do is is create a first principles idea

1276
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:41,040
around what bricks is versus what the g7 is which is the two

1277
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:43,920
parties that are at conflict here

1278
01:37:45,120 --> 01:37:47,120
When you're the net producer

1279
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:52,160
You can start calling the shop. It's a whole lot more than the net consumer

1280
01:37:52,240 --> 01:37:57,600
The net consumer has a duration or a lifespan at which they may be able to continue to

1281
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:02,720
Try to get themselves out of it mess if you're a company you'll you'll sell a bunch of stock

1282
01:38:02,720 --> 01:38:07,040
You'll debase all the existing shareholders. You'll raise a hundred million dollars

1283
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:12,400
And then hopefully you can go invest that in some type of revenue stream that gets you into profitability

1284
01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:16,240
When you're a country and you're a net producer

1285
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:22,480
Right, it's kind of the same principles as if you're at a company level or an individual level

1286
01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:25,280
Okay, so these bricks nations are saying

1287
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:27,840
we're tired

1288
01:38:27,840 --> 01:38:29,840
of receiving

1289
01:38:29,840 --> 01:38:33,200
made-up monopoly money from all these g7 countries

1290
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:35,760
for real work

1291
01:38:35,840 --> 01:38:40,080
In real molecules that we are sending to their domains

1292
01:38:41,600 --> 01:38:44,640
Right, we're done. We're gonna shut off the pipeline

1293
01:38:45,200 --> 01:38:50,560
We're going to you know, not allow you to to to come over here and claw away another

1294
01:38:51,120 --> 01:38:53,120
bread basket country

1295
01:38:53,600 --> 01:38:57,520
That's where they're at. Okay, and so and I'm not trying to say one's good or bad

1296
01:38:57,520 --> 01:39:07,120
What I'm trying to define for people is the incentives that are at bay on a very large macro setup, right?

1297
01:39:08,320 --> 01:39:10,640
So what if you're a bricks nation?

1298
01:39:11,200 --> 01:39:14,000
What do you want to receive for payment?

1299
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:20,560
For these goods that you're producing in excess of what your population is consuming

1300
01:39:21,920 --> 01:39:23,920
Well, I know what I want to receive

1301
01:39:23,920 --> 01:39:31,200
And it's just a matter of time until they kind of figure that unit out in the meantime

1302
01:39:31,920 --> 01:39:35,280
A lot of them a lot of these leaders inside of bricks

1303
01:39:36,000 --> 01:39:43,040
They're very scared of that of bitcoin. They're they're very scared of that system because it holds them to absolute

1304
01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:47,280
Accountability

1305
01:39:47,280 --> 01:39:52,160
Is the word? Okay, so if if if one of them says oh, we're only

1306
01:39:52,160 --> 01:39:57,920
We're accepting bitcoin and bitcoin only like I'm sorry that that country is what they're really saying

1307
01:39:58,000 --> 01:40:00,640
This is a south of right what that country is really saying

1308
01:40:01,440 --> 01:40:05,600
Is we are not going to rug pool our population?

1309
01:40:06,080 --> 01:40:11,040
And we're not going to rug pool our counter parties of other countries that we exchange with

1310
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:16,320
By controlling this made up paper unit, even though we're net producers

1311
01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:19,280
Basically, we're not going to do a stock issuance

1312
01:40:19,280 --> 01:40:24,000
Even though it'd be like apple going out and saying and you know

1313
01:40:25,040 --> 01:40:28,080
And it'd be like apple net producer don't need the cash

1314
01:40:28,960 --> 01:40:34,240
Just we don't have any like revenue streams that we need the cash for that that we're going after that

1315
01:40:34,240 --> 01:40:39,680
That would be a reason for a company to do that is like they see a huge opportunity in the market that they want to capture

1316
01:40:39,680 --> 01:40:44,720
And they don't have the cash on hand so they debase the shares to try to capture that and they think that they can make it up

1317
01:40:44,720 --> 01:40:49,760
That would be that would be a pure intention for going back to intentions

1318
01:40:50,320 --> 01:40:52,320
for a company to debase their shares

1319
01:40:53,040 --> 01:40:55,040
To create more value

1320
01:40:55,120 --> 01:41:02,560
But an impure intention is let's rug pool all the existing shareholders. Let's take that and like let's do it for whatever, you know

1321
01:41:03,360 --> 01:41:08,880
So when when we look at a country like bricks like just take russia or brazil or any of them, right?

1322
01:41:08,880 --> 01:41:16,560
The reason they they love rug pool technology so much by debasing currency

1323
01:41:17,280 --> 01:41:23,360
Is because they can tax citizens without impacting their ability to be reelected or

1324
01:41:24,240 --> 01:41:32,720
The way that they're viewed optically from their citizens. And so they love that they love using the the rug pool technology as much as possible

1325
01:41:32,720 --> 01:41:41,440
So getting them to sign up to bitcoin this early on right is in the moment where they're starting to get the upper hand to really start taking

1326
01:41:41,440 --> 01:41:43,440
And I think it is a major threat to the dollar

1327
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:50,560
Like the timelines the part that everybody will argue over like people that say that like well, that's all happened in the next three years

1328
01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:55,120
You're an idiot like correct. It is not happening in the next three years, but maybe over the next 10 or 20

1329
01:41:55,760 --> 01:41:57,760
watch out

1330
01:41:57,760 --> 01:42:03,920
And so I think we're at this pivotal moment where that's shifting that's changing and a lot of them are going to be hesitant to sign up to

1331
01:42:04,560 --> 01:42:08,560
Technology that prevents them from rug pulling their their constituents

1332
01:42:09,280 --> 01:42:12,000
And so that brings us to the point where like

1333
01:42:12,960 --> 01:42:17,120
Okay, so they they don't trust each other or else they would just sign you use bitcoin

1334
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:21,680
They they want to have this they want to have this luxury to still

1335
01:42:22,560 --> 01:42:25,840
Control things and that's where it's going to take them a little bit of time to come around the bitcoin

1336
01:42:25,840 --> 01:42:27,840
But they're gonna be it's gonna be forced upon

1337
01:42:28,960 --> 01:42:30,960
Within the time

1338
01:42:31,120 --> 01:42:37,040
It's really an interesting to think about a thing to think about the el salvador model of a country that's actually

1339
01:42:37,520 --> 01:42:41,600
And I think we see this and from the times that I've been there actually talking to people

1340
01:42:42,480 --> 01:42:45,680
People are genuinely really happy with the changes, you know, nothing is perfect

1341
01:42:46,240 --> 01:42:51,760
But you see in my mind in el salvador a country that is actively trying to do right

1342
01:42:51,760 --> 01:42:56,320
By its populace that is trying to correct some of the wrongs that have been done

1343
01:42:56,560 --> 01:43:00,160
That is trying to clean house to a certain extent and that may ruffle a lot of feathers

1344
01:43:00,720 --> 01:43:06,640
But you know what it's easy to have the luxury of judgment sitting here in the in the you know, so-called developed world

1345
01:43:07,120 --> 01:43:12,880
Uh judging a country that's trying to pick itself back up by its bootstraps after a lot of the so-called developed world

1346
01:43:13,360 --> 01:43:18,560
Was kicking it down for many many years. So this is the challenge for el salvador. Okay

1347
01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:25,440
Implementing a bitcoin strategy for a country is way easier if you're a net producer

1348
01:43:26,320 --> 01:43:28,320
Way easier. It's possible

1349
01:43:28,720 --> 01:43:31,840
When you're a net consumer, it's way more difficult

1350
01:43:32,560 --> 01:43:38,080
Because you're constantly trying to offset that net consumption through the basement

1351
01:43:39,040 --> 01:43:43,840
And um, and it's very tricky. So in el salvador for at least my understanding

1352
01:43:43,840 --> 01:43:51,440
I did a very cursory research on it. My understanding is that it's a net consuming country in at net across like all their goods and services

1353
01:43:52,000 --> 01:43:55,440
but by uh becoming a bitcoin country

1354
01:43:56,080 --> 01:43:58,080
What they've done is they've attracted

1355
01:43:58,640 --> 01:43:59,760
uh

1356
01:43:59,760 --> 01:44:05,200
Business around this particular sector into their country which may turn them into a net producer

1357
01:44:05,200 --> 01:44:15,440
Which then will get this flywheel going for them that they can continue to uh to grow and expand and and potentially be a powerhouse

1358
01:44:16,160 --> 01:44:19,840
Uh, you know 20 30 years from now because of such a decision

1359
01:44:19,840 --> 01:44:23,520
But I will say this if a country is a net producer, it's a whole lot

1360
01:44:24,160 --> 01:44:28,320
Easier for them to to turn to bitcoin and start incorporating it

1361
01:44:29,440 --> 01:44:33,520
That's I think that's very well said and I do want to be conscious of your time here

1362
01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:40,080
Preston do you have a couple more minutes still? Yeah, yeah, let's do it. Okay. I uh fantastic. Uh, so just uh

1363
01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:44,320
I wanted to switch gears a little bit and and just talk about

1364
01:44:45,200 --> 01:44:54,400
Shockingly bitcoin specifically and I'd love uh to talk a little bit about your thoughts on drive chains the kind of the the big

1365
01:44:54,960 --> 01:45:01,280
Uh big hot top. I know I know and I know you and I know you just did uh an extensive interview

1366
01:45:01,280 --> 01:45:06,800
Uh with adam back on this very topic. I know that you've uh

1367
01:45:07,840 --> 01:45:12,480
You are a uh, I think if I'm correct in in this characterization

1368
01:45:13,280 --> 01:45:20,080
You are in the camp of let's not do something that's going to potentially quote break bitcoin

1369
01:45:20,800 --> 01:45:23,440
uh, let's let's focus on

1370
01:45:24,240 --> 01:45:26,640
Having sound money remain sound money

1371
01:45:26,640 --> 01:45:32,320
Because if we can do that then bitcoin is inevitable. Uh, if we start messing with this thing

1372
01:45:32,880 --> 01:45:37,520
That inevitability may have a slightly lower success chance

1373
01:45:37,840 --> 01:45:42,160
So I'd love your thoughts on the current debate. I think a lot of nuance is

1374
01:45:42,800 --> 01:45:48,560
Lost in this debate when it's just people, uh, you know in a few characters going back and forth with each other on twitter

1375
01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:54,640
Within you know bitcoin is its own tribe and within that tribe there are many factions and people

1376
01:45:54,640 --> 01:46:00,080
People like to debate about stuff and it's good that we do that and it's good that we do that out in the open as well

1377
01:46:00,160 --> 01:46:02,160
That's a strength not a weakness

1378
01:46:02,320 --> 01:46:06,320
But where if you're if you can say where where do you stand on this and how

1379
01:46:07,040 --> 01:46:09,600
How do you approach this question because I think

1380
01:46:10,320 --> 01:46:16,240
You know, it comes back to uh a first principles understanding of something of how are you going to break this down?

1381
01:46:16,240 --> 01:46:19,120
It's not just a knee-jerk reaction to quote drive chains

1382
01:46:19,120 --> 01:46:24,080
It's how do you think about changes to bitcoin in a broader sense?

1383
01:46:24,240 --> 01:46:28,080
And how do you make the decision as to whether or not something is going to be?

1384
01:46:28,800 --> 01:46:30,800
You know, is it going to be approved by your node?

1385
01:46:31,440 --> 01:46:33,440
I've made a lot of decisions in my day

1386
01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:40,640
A lot of decisions as a leader, um as a military leader in in, uh

1387
01:46:42,400 --> 01:46:45,440
Situations where they were literally life and death decisions

1388
01:46:46,160 --> 01:46:47,120
um

1389
01:46:47,120 --> 01:46:55,440
And I can tell you when a person is forcing me to make a decision or cramming a decision down my throat

1390
01:46:56,720 --> 01:46:59,760
And it's not something that is time imminent

1391
01:47:00,800 --> 01:47:03,200
That is a person I immediately don't trust

1392
01:47:04,720 --> 01:47:07,600
Okay, because you have to ask yourself why

1393
01:47:08,560 --> 01:47:14,000
Why is this person forcing me to make a a decision that's not time sensitive?

1394
01:47:14,720 --> 01:47:16,720
right now

1395
01:47:16,720 --> 01:47:24,160
And when I when I look at drive chains and I look at paul's actions, and I'll call him out right here, right paul

1396
01:47:25,200 --> 01:47:26,320
um

1397
01:47:26,320 --> 01:47:34,400
All I see is a person who's jamming a decision down everybody's throat and saying like we're doing this now with or without you

1398
01:47:34,640 --> 01:47:36,560
We're going to

1399
01:47:36,560 --> 01:47:38,560
Do it in a in a sneaky way

1400
01:47:38,560 --> 01:47:45,200
Where only minors are going to run the code and everybody else is going to be forced to do like everything about that guy

1401
01:47:45,200 --> 01:47:50,080
To me based on my past experience of making a lot of decisions is

1402
01:47:50,800 --> 01:47:52,800
I can't trust this guy

1403
01:47:53,200 --> 01:47:54,320
Okay

1404
01:47:54,320 --> 01:47:55,600
now

1405
01:47:55,600 --> 01:47:57,600
I want to preface this

1406
01:47:57,600 --> 01:48:04,800
I don't have the technical chops to go through the proposal to understand whether it's

1407
01:48:05,680 --> 01:48:07,680
introducing vulnerabilities

1408
01:48:08,800 --> 01:48:11,760
To to bitcoin through just the code alone

1409
01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:15,440
I have concerns about it warping incentives

1410
01:48:16,320 --> 01:48:18,320
And with respect to the minors

1411
01:48:18,720 --> 01:48:21,680
Um, are they deep concerns? Not really

1412
01:48:22,480 --> 01:48:28,480
But they warned me to say why now why does the decision have to be made right now?

1413
01:48:28,640 --> 01:48:31,600
Why can't we sit down and like literally hash this out for

1414
01:48:32,400 --> 01:48:37,520
Literally it has to set up. That's good for another, uh, you know 300 blocks or whatever

1415
01:48:38,240 --> 01:48:39,600
um

1416
01:48:39,600 --> 01:48:43,440
300 30000 blocks. Um, there we go. Yeah, so, uh

1417
01:48:44,560 --> 01:48:51,120
You know like those are some of like the really like broad like a meat like off the top of my head things that I think about

1418
01:48:51,440 --> 01:48:53,440
and that um very reserved

1419
01:48:54,800 --> 01:48:59,520
The other really big frustration I personally have with bitcoin

1420
01:49:00,160 --> 01:49:02,400
Is I think a lot of participants

1421
01:49:03,040 --> 01:49:05,600
That are in bitcoin today think like a

1422
01:49:06,240 --> 01:49:08,800
consumer that makes a hundred thousand dollars a year

1423
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:13,760
And uh, like they're they're coming with a roger veer lens

1424
01:49:14,320 --> 01:49:20,480
Because that's how I view roger is this guy who who does not understand like really like

1425
01:49:21,760 --> 01:49:24,560
The people pulling the strings in the global economy

1426
01:49:25,840 --> 01:49:31,680
Uh, they're moving billions upon billions of buying power at the snap of a finger

1427
01:49:32,480 --> 01:49:36,320
And these are the people that are like that are the puppeteers of of the world

1428
01:49:36,320 --> 01:49:39,120
Okay, and when I think about

1429
01:49:40,560 --> 01:49:43,360
How clown world has manifested itself?

1430
01:49:44,240 --> 01:49:48,800
Okay, the reason it has manifested itself is because these puppeteers

1431
01:49:49,360 --> 01:49:52,400
That are controlling these enormous flows of energy

1432
01:49:53,440 --> 01:49:59,520
Um are incentivized to to double down on clown world because there's no backing

1433
01:49:59,520 --> 01:50:06,080
It goes back to our discussion around the bricks where you know, you have these these really large stream pullers

1434
01:50:06,560 --> 01:50:12,000
That are saying oh, well, let's just crap on these keys and let's add another five trillion units into this system

1435
01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:17,760
And then like let's squirt those suckers over to russia and like and then let's literally pull them all back

1436
01:50:17,840 --> 01:50:20,720
So they have zero what idiots right?

1437
01:50:21,600 --> 01:50:25,040
These are the stream pullers of society whether you like that or not

1438
01:50:25,040 --> 01:50:30,800
You can't take away from the fact that they are the ones pulling the strings and they are the ones controlling the flow of these

1439
01:50:30,960 --> 01:50:32,960
these energy units or

1440
01:50:33,280 --> 01:50:35,680
You know, whatever you want to call the existing fiat

1441
01:50:36,480 --> 01:50:39,840
Okay, so when I think about what solves that

1442
01:50:40,720 --> 01:50:43,120
what actually solves that is

1443
01:50:43,760 --> 01:50:50,640
Bitcoin store value first and foremost and if you fail at that like the whole the whole experiment is toast

1444
01:50:50,640 --> 01:50:57,360
Like you have to peg these people to the wall that are key stroking in a trillion units

1445
01:50:58,160 --> 01:51:05,040
In the only way I think you can do that is is with bitcoin making sure that layer one is absolutely immutable

1446
01:51:05,600 --> 01:51:11,440
The incentives are totally aligned between miners and users and and all the all the parties that make up that

1447
01:51:12,080 --> 01:51:17,200
That deeply connected incentive structure that that is perfectly balanced

1448
01:51:18,160 --> 01:51:20,160
and any threat to that

1449
01:51:20,160 --> 01:51:24,720
I'm going to I'm not only going to like aggressively

1450
01:51:28,720 --> 01:51:31,760
Antagonize the person who's trying to change that

1451
01:51:32,320 --> 01:51:38,800
But I'm going to force people to take a step back and say no no no no the decision does not need to be made today

1452
01:51:39,120 --> 01:51:44,320
Stop the madness. Let's sit down. Let's talk about if ever this needs to be done

1453
01:51:44,960 --> 01:51:46,960
because I look at so

1454
01:51:46,960 --> 01:51:52,080
I use bitcoin as a savings technology. I am a net producer

1455
01:51:53,200 --> 01:52:00,880
I can save the the excess of what I what I receive on a month-to-month basis and I choose to store that in bitcoin

1456
01:52:01,360 --> 01:52:04,560
Okay, like every other net producer on the planet

1457
01:52:05,200 --> 01:52:08,480
If you're not a net producer the bitcoin is going to flow out of your hands. This is going to go somewhere

1458
01:52:08,960 --> 01:52:12,560
It's the it's the nature of bitcoin to find a net producer

1459
01:52:12,560 --> 01:52:17,680
um, so so when I look at drive chains and

1460
01:52:18,800 --> 01:52:20,800
I see the rush

1461
01:52:20,880 --> 01:52:23,520
and I see the the use case

1462
01:52:24,320 --> 01:52:28,800
for me, you know how many times I've had to swap into a minaret or

1463
01:52:29,440 --> 01:52:35,520
Go to lbtc, which is which is a solution that already exists that gives you an amenity on bitcoin

1464
01:52:35,520 --> 01:52:43,520
Which Adam back literally built it already exists. You're using a federation. It's just not a minor. It's exchanges. So like what's the difference?

1465
01:52:44,560 --> 01:52:46,560
You know how many times I've needed to use that?

1466
01:52:47,280 --> 01:52:48,720
zero

1467
01:52:48,720 --> 01:52:53,680
because I actually follow the law and I and I do things the way that

1468
01:52:54,480 --> 01:52:57,280
You know the I don't want to go to jail

1469
01:52:58,400 --> 01:53:02,800
and um, so like you know many times I had to swap into eith zero

1470
01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:08,320
You know how many times I had to go do any of this other stuff that these other shitcoins offer?

1471
01:53:09,280 --> 01:53:10,800
zero

1472
01:53:10,800 --> 01:53:14,240
So when these people are saying that this is the only way it'll scale

1473
01:53:15,520 --> 01:53:20,800
It's the only way it'll scale for uh, crypto ben. What's the guy's name again?

1474
01:53:21,440 --> 01:53:25,120
Bit boy. It's the only way it'll scale for bit cool bit boys

1475
01:53:26,320 --> 01:53:28,320
Which are parasites

1476
01:53:28,880 --> 01:53:31,280
Which are people that are rug pooling others

1477
01:53:31,280 --> 01:53:40,640
I don't need it and neither does anybody else who's who's managing a five billion dollar bond tranche and the energy that's soaked into that thing

1478
01:53:41,120 --> 01:53:45,680
They don't need drug chains. Let me tell you for a second. They don't need it

1479
01:53:46,720 --> 01:53:47,840
Okay

1480
01:53:47,840 --> 01:53:51,440
so, uh, you know, I would I would encourage people to take off

1481
01:53:52,000 --> 01:53:58,240
Take off their uh, their 12 year old like kitty hat and put on the the the big boy hat

1482
01:53:58,240 --> 01:54:05,040
And look at how the flow of energy actually happens around the world and design a system that accommodates that so that we can

1483
01:54:05,200 --> 01:54:07,200
peg the living hell out of

1484
01:54:07,600 --> 01:54:13,440
Uh clown world and hold these people accountable so they can't keystroke two trillion units into the system

1485
01:54:14,720 --> 01:54:18,160
I think that's extremely well said and the

1486
01:54:19,680 --> 01:54:24,640
Again, this is this is something I talked with jeff about a little bit was the idea that

1487
01:54:24,640 --> 01:54:29,520
Just because you can build something just because something is a cool idea

1488
01:54:29,760 --> 01:54:33,920
That you have the ability to develop that will allow you to leave your mark on something

1489
01:54:34,320 --> 01:54:37,200
Just because you can do that does not mean you should

1490
01:54:37,920 --> 01:54:40,240
and and it's great that you can do that but

1491
01:54:41,120 --> 01:54:45,360
That doesn't mean it's a good idea and forest urgency is always a red flag for me

1492
01:54:45,920 --> 01:54:49,920
Oh, I mean, that's that's how you do that's the easiest way to tell if an email is trying to fish you

1493
01:54:50,080 --> 01:54:54,080
Do they tell you you need to do something right now or you're gonna lose access to your account?

1494
01:54:54,080 --> 01:54:58,800
Well, then they're trying to scam you that's right. I to illustrate this point

1495
01:54:58,960 --> 01:55:04,560
So, uh, I was interviewing this guy, uh, tren griffin. I think is the guy's name. This was years ago

1496
01:55:05,200 --> 01:55:10,160
Uh, he's an executive at microsoft and big time value investor guy

1497
01:55:11,120 --> 01:55:16,160
Has a pretty neat blog. I think it's called 25 IQ all about this. So, um

1498
01:55:17,360 --> 01:55:22,080
I was talking to him and I said so so trend like my biggest gripe with microsoft

1499
01:55:22,080 --> 01:55:24,640
Well, not my biggest gripe today, but back then this was

1500
01:55:27,680 --> 01:55:28,720
I said

1501
01:55:28,720 --> 01:55:36,640
Why the hell do you guys keep changing the layout of like word or powerpoint and they've gotten way better with this in the last

1502
01:55:37,040 --> 01:55:38,880
five to seven years

1503
01:55:38,880 --> 01:55:41,520
but up like if you go back like seven years ago

1504
01:55:42,240 --> 01:55:45,680
And you were using these the suite of microsoft tools

1505
01:55:46,160 --> 01:55:51,200
They were constantly changing this ribbon at the top and like reorganizing everything

1506
01:55:51,200 --> 01:55:53,200
And I said to him I said

1507
01:55:53,760 --> 01:55:55,760
The only thing you guys have to do

1508
01:55:56,480 --> 01:55:58,480
is stop changing it

1509
01:55:58,880 --> 01:56:04,000
Like because when you change where the things are in the layout digitally on the screen

1510
01:56:04,480 --> 01:56:06,880
It makes me say why am I paying for this?

1511
01:56:06,960 --> 01:56:12,720
Let me go find something cheaper and something that's not changing the layout where I have to go look for the edit button

1512
01:56:12,720 --> 01:56:14,720
Or the crop button or whatever

1513
01:56:14,800 --> 01:56:18,720
Right. I said, why the hell do you guys do that? You're competitive mode is everybody knows how to do it

1514
01:56:18,720 --> 01:56:21,440
They're already educating. They're just gonna keep paying the subscription fee

1515
01:56:22,080 --> 01:56:24,080
And and he goes, you know Preston

1516
01:56:24,720 --> 01:56:25,920
Like that's a really good point

1517
01:56:26,080 --> 01:56:27,440
But he goes

1518
01:56:27,440 --> 01:56:31,760
But designers are designers and they're just gonna design things and like

1519
01:56:32,160 --> 01:56:36,320
It's a little bit out of our control because they just designed new layouts

1520
01:56:36,880 --> 01:56:42,240
And I was like that is the dumbest answer that I've ever heard and it wasn't transdisc

1521
01:56:42,720 --> 01:56:44,720
his decision, but it's like

1522
01:56:45,120 --> 01:56:47,120
That is idiotic

1523
01:56:47,120 --> 01:56:52,720
Because people aren't actually thinking about the competitive mode of once you've got them trained and once they know where to go

1524
01:56:52,880 --> 01:56:58,080
Like just stop tinkering with it and then you join the proceeds because everybody's happy

1525
01:56:58,560 --> 01:57:00,640
Right and when I think about bitcoin engineer

1526
01:57:01,520 --> 01:57:04,800
And I think about all these people doing g-wiz things

1527
01:57:05,920 --> 01:57:12,000
Um, I think about kind of like that parallel of like just stop tinkering with it

1528
01:57:12,560 --> 01:57:14,560
like identify the problem

1529
01:57:14,560 --> 01:57:20,880
And identify whether you're solving that problem in the most efficient and value-accurative way possible

1530
01:57:21,760 --> 01:57:30,480
And if if the answer is I've done that then take your dang hands off the the machine and let it perform the solution

1531
01:57:30,960 --> 01:57:34,560
Right and and that's where I'm at with a lot of engineers on bitcoin

1532
01:57:35,040 --> 01:57:38,480
No, and I think in to to play devil's advocate it

1533
01:57:38,480 --> 01:57:44,880
There is of course going to be there's incredible work that bitcoin core devs do to maintain

1534
01:57:45,680 --> 01:57:49,600
To maintain bitcoin to actually make sure that you know that there are

1535
01:57:50,160 --> 01:57:54,720
Not going to be any critical bugs that are going to manifest themselves. There is a complete

1536
01:57:55,280 --> 01:58:00,480
I think separation between that and just to clarify for anyone listening. That's not what we're talking about here

1537
01:58:00,480 --> 01:58:06,000
What we're talking about here is we need to take and build things on top of the

1538
01:58:06,000 --> 01:58:10,160
Bitcoin and to enhance bitcoin and to to redesign

1539
01:58:10,720 --> 01:58:13,760
It's not about the core maintainers who are doing incredible work

1540
01:58:14,320 --> 01:58:19,040
To maintain bitcoin as it is today. It's about the people who are looking to leave there

1541
01:58:19,040 --> 01:58:22,960
You know to the designers who wanted to design to the developers who want to develop

1542
01:58:23,920 --> 01:58:25,920
It's

1543
01:58:25,920 --> 01:58:27,920
Amen

1544
01:58:27,920 --> 01:58:29,920
You know

1545
01:58:29,920 --> 01:58:35,920
I'm glad you clarified that exactly how exactly how I feel like the amount of of

1546
01:58:37,120 --> 01:58:39,120
appreciation and

1547
01:58:39,280 --> 01:58:41,280
just

1548
01:58:41,360 --> 01:58:47,680
Humility that I have for all these developers that have built bitcoin to where it's at like I can't even express it

1549
01:58:48,240 --> 01:58:50,240
and I am I'm

1550
01:58:50,240 --> 01:58:52,240
deeply indebted to them

1551
01:58:52,400 --> 01:58:55,280
And what they've done to for humanity here

1552
01:58:55,280 --> 01:59:03,680
Um, and I think that sometimes uh, you know, I'm working around the house and putting in shrubbery and like you get to a point

1553
01:59:04,560 --> 01:59:06,560
Where sometimes you put too much

1554
01:59:07,680 --> 01:59:09,680
Shit into something

1555
01:59:09,680 --> 01:59:12,880
And it makes it look so much worse because you're overdoing it

1556
01:59:13,440 --> 01:59:16,560
And I guess what what I'm saying is I want to guard against that

1557
01:59:17,120 --> 01:59:24,480
I want I want to just because you can do this new cool swoopy thing doesn't mean you should and and and if you're really held

1558
01:59:24,480 --> 01:59:29,600
That on well then just go out in the layer too and work on it and do it right or go build it on litecoin, you know

1559
01:59:30,960 --> 01:59:34,560
Yeah, go. Yeah have fun over there, but I

1560
01:59:35,600 --> 01:59:41,360
I understand the tendency of people who are incredible developers to want to develop things and leave their mark on it

1561
01:59:41,760 --> 01:59:49,040
I think that it's it's also, uh often characterized that uh, somebody like you or myself who are saying look

1562
01:59:49,040 --> 01:59:57,520
Uh, let's let's remember what the the core value proposition of bitcoin is as the most uh, the most truthful and strongest

1563
01:59:58,080 --> 02:00:00,080
sound money network

1564
02:00:00,160 --> 02:00:06,480
In that has ever been created. Let's remember what that is. Perhaps that's often characterized by the people who are hardcore developers as

1565
02:00:07,040 --> 02:00:10,880
Uh, well, you just think you should you know, you should completely osfi bitcoin and never touch it again

1566
02:00:11,280 --> 02:00:15,440
And that you think that nothing needs to be done because you don't understand development

1567
02:00:16,400 --> 02:00:18,160
And it's like no

1568
02:00:18,160 --> 02:00:20,160
Not saying that um

1569
02:00:20,400 --> 02:00:25,520
These people of course have a much deeper understanding of how to write codes that then you and I do

1570
02:00:25,920 --> 02:00:29,040
I I run a software company my developers

1571
02:00:29,520 --> 02:00:33,760
Know much more about how to write code than I do because that's not why I'm here

1572
02:00:34,240 --> 02:00:39,680
Uh, I you know, we each have different roles we perform and we need to be able to

1573
02:00:40,160 --> 02:00:43,360
Have these conversations where we can be honest and say look

1574
02:00:43,920 --> 02:00:45,920
You're approaching it from this perspective

1575
02:00:45,920 --> 02:00:49,920
I'm thinking something needs to be built. I'm approaching it from a different one and saying that

1576
02:00:50,320 --> 02:00:53,920
I believe that the simplest solution is going to be the strongest and most elegant

1577
02:00:54,320 --> 02:00:57,520
And we are have we somehow have the good fortune

1578
02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:06,960
To exist in this moment in space and time where we are around for the advent of this new monetary technology

1579
02:01:07,600 --> 02:01:14,640
Which is revolution it is it is and it is an uh, it is a technological upgrade for money

1580
02:01:14,640 --> 02:01:18,960
And it is an ethical upgrade for the world and it's incredible that we're here to experience it

1581
02:01:19,280 --> 02:01:24,800
And what a shame what a shame it would be if we screwed that up because we over engineered

1582
02:01:25,440 --> 02:01:28,240
and tried to solve a problem that didn't exist

1583
02:01:28,960 --> 02:01:30,080
and

1584
02:01:30,080 --> 02:01:36,240
We already, you know, we have something very very good. Let's be very very cautious about how we try and change it

1585
02:01:36,720 --> 02:01:39,040
Because if there's a chance that we might screw it up

1586
02:01:39,760 --> 02:01:42,160
I don't know if the if the risks outweigh the benefits

1587
02:01:42,160 --> 02:01:45,120
I I know where I stand on that but yeah, that's

1588
02:01:45,840 --> 02:01:48,480
I appreciate your your perspective on that because I think

1589
02:01:49,760 --> 02:01:53,280
The forced urgency is a really important thing for people to realize

1590
02:01:54,080 --> 02:01:56,480
If somebody tells you you need to make a decision right now

1591
02:01:56,560 --> 02:01:59,680
But there's not actually a time-based imperative for you to make that decision

1592
02:02:00,000 --> 02:02:02,000
You should be extremely

1593
02:02:02,000 --> 02:02:06,880
Extremely skeptical of that because then that means there's another motive at play and you don't know what that motive is

1594
02:02:06,880 --> 02:02:12,720
For instance, maybe he only has so far of a runway from his VC fund. That's that's paying for all this

1595
02:02:13,360 --> 02:02:14,320
Yeah

1596
02:02:14,320 --> 02:02:16,320
Right like let's

1597
02:02:16,560 --> 02:02:20,400
Let's pull the thread on why it's so pertinent that it happens right now

1598
02:02:20,480 --> 02:02:26,320
Maybe he needs to show something to his investors that something was that happened that gave him all the money to be doing this

1599
02:02:26,320 --> 02:02:29,360
And paying for his marketing campaign, which has clearly happened

1600
02:02:30,000 --> 02:02:31,440
Yeah, like

1601
02:02:31,440 --> 02:02:33,440
The whole thing stinks like rotten fish

1602
02:02:33,440 --> 02:02:39,760
Ah, but ah anyway, yeah, yeah, well, I think those are my thoughts on drive chains. I

1603
02:02:42,480 --> 02:02:43,680
I

1604
02:02:43,680 --> 02:02:50,000
Appreciate that because it's it's something that people are very curious about and a lot of people don't necessarily

1605
02:02:51,840 --> 02:02:54,400
Want to dive into the twitter debate, but they're curious about

1606
02:02:55,040 --> 02:03:00,800
What not what to think about or what they should think but how they should approach the question for themselves

1607
02:03:00,880 --> 02:03:02,880
And I think you laid that out very well

1608
02:03:02,880 --> 02:03:04,480
Uh

1609
02:03:04,480 --> 02:03:12,240
Another thing I because I again being conscious of your scarce time on this wonderful earth that we inhabit

1610
02:03:12,720 --> 02:03:18,480
Uh, I I want to kind of move towards wrapping things up a little bit and but before we do that

1611
02:03:19,040 --> 02:03:25,680
Uh, I'd just like to know uh at a to get out of the bitcoin and macro topic a little bit

1612
02:03:26,800 --> 02:03:29,840
You have done a lot in your life

1613
02:03:29,840 --> 02:03:33,760
Uh, and you have a lot of life left to live

1614
02:03:34,640 --> 02:03:41,680
What is something that you have not done yet that you want to do that you plan to do that you're excited to do?

1615
02:03:42,240 --> 02:03:46,000
Uh, what what what is what is what is Preston looking forward toward?

1616
02:03:46,720 --> 02:03:49,040
That that's not in his life right now

1617
02:03:51,040 --> 02:03:52,080
Um

1618
02:03:52,080 --> 02:03:55,920
I I guess I would say just kind of seeing like where my kids go

1619
02:03:55,920 --> 02:04:04,880
So next in their life as they you know become adults and just uh their contributions to society and like all of that like

1620
02:04:06,080 --> 02:04:15,120
Uh, I think that's very exciting and very important and I want to be playing an active role in that and being there for them and

1621
02:04:16,560 --> 02:04:18,560
Yeah, I mean

1622
02:04:18,560 --> 02:04:24,960
Going back to the comment that I said earlier with uh, Jesse Itzler about being passionate about the journey

1623
02:04:25,280 --> 02:04:35,280
When I look at bitcoin and I look at like all these incredible people that I've met through through the years and just this grind of like battling

1624
02:04:35,760 --> 02:04:37,760
the consensus

1625
02:04:38,000 --> 02:04:41,520
And battling this just really corrupted system

1626
02:04:41,520 --> 02:04:47,920
Like let's just say we could snap our fingers and we would be at full bitcoin adoption and like everybody's doing

1627
02:04:48,320 --> 02:04:52,960
Bitcoin and like settling all transactions and like it's just all over and it's like well

1628
02:04:52,960 --> 02:04:56,240
Why would anybody even talk about the water that we're swimming in?

1629
02:04:56,640 --> 02:04:58,640
Right, we're just we're just in water

1630
02:04:58,880 --> 02:05:02,000
If we're going to the fish analogy, right? Um

1631
02:05:02,960 --> 02:05:07,280
So I I think there's a little bit of uh

1632
02:05:07,280 --> 02:05:12,640
Like as we look at the coming five to 15 20 years ahead

1633
02:05:13,360 --> 02:05:18,400
Like I'm very passionate about this journey. I'm very passionate about

1634
02:05:19,600 --> 02:05:25,200
Uh, it taking place in a way that is most beneficial to the largest amount of people possible

1635
02:05:25,920 --> 02:05:28,240
Which means like hey if it happens a little slower

1636
02:05:28,800 --> 02:05:33,280
Because it's more beneficial for people to ease into that transition. Well, then that's what I want if it's

1637
02:05:33,280 --> 02:05:36,880
If it's happens faster because that's more beneficial, well, then that's what I want

1638
02:05:37,440 --> 02:05:39,920
But I want to I want to enjoy the journey

1639
02:05:40,400 --> 02:05:46,080
And I want to enjoy the journey of all the relationships that I'm able to have with real people

1640
02:05:47,200 --> 02:05:49,200
that are value creators

1641
02:05:50,320 --> 02:05:53,280
That are here to help others and not just themselves

1642
02:05:54,480 --> 02:05:56,960
And a mutually beneficial harmonious kind of way

1643
02:05:57,760 --> 02:05:59,760
And I'm very excited for what that looks like

1644
02:05:59,760 --> 02:06:06,160
Moving forward. I think that I think it's very exciting and it and it's going to be very fulfilling like one of the things

1645
02:06:07,280 --> 02:06:12,000
I've I've met tons of people that have become very rich through the years

1646
02:06:12,880 --> 02:06:18,720
And um, you know the the thing that they almost always say is you've got to have something

1647
02:06:20,080 --> 02:06:26,320
Because a lot of them they make $500 million and they're they're very rich. They can do anything

1648
02:06:26,320 --> 02:06:30,320
That they want they can go anywhere they want whenever they want they can do it, right?

1649
02:06:30,960 --> 02:06:32,960
But what they find out really fast

1650
02:06:33,760 --> 02:06:37,280
Is that if you if you don't have like this bigger purpose?

1651
02:06:38,320 --> 02:06:40,320
That's driving you to do something

1652
02:06:41,360 --> 02:06:44,160
You become very dissatisfied with your life

1653
02:06:44,720 --> 02:06:50,480
Like very like it it gets very stale very gray

1654
02:06:51,680 --> 02:06:53,680
Right and

1655
02:06:53,680 --> 02:07:01,680
I guess for me, I'm just we have so much to look forward to on this journey and it's and if you didn't like if you're watching a movie

1656
02:07:02,320 --> 02:07:06,240
Give you another example if you're watching a movie and like there's not this

1657
02:07:07,200 --> 02:07:12,240
Stare step progression to the end where the where the person wins big

1658
02:07:13,280 --> 02:07:14,400
Right?

1659
02:07:14,400 --> 02:07:18,400
And in the middle of the movie it looks like there's no way they're gonna win. They're gonna lose

1660
02:07:18,400 --> 02:07:24,720
Like I kind of think we're maybe in the middle of that story and that journey that he was journey

1661
02:07:25,520 --> 02:07:27,520
Of like if we didn't have

1662
02:07:28,320 --> 02:07:30,320
these Sam Bank and free to the world

1663
02:07:31,840 --> 02:07:35,760
And the Gary Ginsler's and I'm taking the meetings and all the politics like

1664
02:07:36,480 --> 02:07:39,360
this journey would not be nearly as

1665
02:07:40,080 --> 02:07:45,280
Rewarding and beneficial and so I'm just I'm thankful for all of these people

1666
02:07:45,280 --> 02:07:48,720
Beneficial and so I'm just I'm thankful for all of it

1667
02:07:49,280 --> 02:07:53,040
I'm thankful. I'm very thankful for the journey that that lies ahead

1668
02:07:53,920 --> 02:07:58,160
And it's something that is going to be so rewarding for all of us

1669
02:07:58,960 --> 02:08:02,800
Uh to participate and have even the smallest impact

1670
02:08:03,760 --> 02:08:08,480
On a net basis of all the other contributors to educate the world on what I think is going to

1671
02:08:08,480 --> 02:08:14,400
You change the landscape for humanity. It's just so exciting. It's awesome. So I'm looking forward to all of that

1672
02:08:15,680 --> 02:08:18,160
It's I think that's beautiful. You know, honestly, I I'm

1673
02:08:18,880 --> 02:08:20,080
uh

1674
02:08:20,080 --> 02:08:24,480
I'm not in a rush for hyperbit quantization. I think similar to you because

1675
02:08:25,520 --> 02:08:27,520
The journey is what's

1676
02:08:27,600 --> 02:08:32,720
important, right? Like I I'm I'm glad to have been born in a pre hyperbit quantized time

1677
02:08:33,440 --> 02:08:36,480
uh, where although uh, this uh

1678
02:08:36,480 --> 02:08:38,000
Uh

1679
02:08:38,000 --> 02:08:45,040
This battle that we see bitcoin against pitted against fiat may be frustrating at times and as you said, there's a lot of uh, a lot of

1680
02:08:45,680 --> 02:08:47,680
nair duel characters

1681
02:08:48,080 --> 02:08:49,040
but

1682
02:08:49,040 --> 02:08:55,280
It you know, the yield is the friends we made along the way, right and it's beautiful to see never before

1683
02:08:56,080 --> 02:08:57,600
have I

1684
02:08:57,600 --> 02:09:00,240
seen such a high concentration of

1685
02:09:01,200 --> 02:09:02,880
highly ethical

1686
02:09:02,880 --> 02:09:07,200
highly intelligent and highly hopeful people. Yeah, like

1687
02:09:08,240 --> 02:09:11,520
It's not that I haven't met people that are all of those things throughout my life

1688
02:09:11,840 --> 02:09:14,160
I've been privileged to have a lot of great people in my life

1689
02:09:14,720 --> 02:09:19,760
But never before have I seen those characteristics in such high concentration

1690
02:09:20,240 --> 02:09:22,640
Yes, and and and expanding

1691
02:09:23,440 --> 02:09:25,680
It's not like it's this small group that stays small

1692
02:09:26,080 --> 02:09:31,120
It's constantly bringing in new people and bringing new hope and bringing new ideas

1693
02:09:31,120 --> 02:09:35,520
And I think that that's just this beautiful thing and I'm right with you. I feel so

1694
02:09:36,480 --> 02:09:40,560
fortunate just to exist at this moment in space and time and

1695
02:09:41,840 --> 02:09:44,960
It's a what a time to be alive, you know, yeah true

1696
02:09:46,240 --> 02:09:51,600
Well on that really happy note, I'd like to uh, I this has been fantastic by the way

1697
02:09:51,680 --> 02:09:58,400
I've really enjoyed this conversation before we close out. I'd love to know, uh, just are you reading anything right now that you'd really

1698
02:09:58,400 --> 02:10:00,880
recommend uh to

1699
02:10:02,160 --> 02:10:04,400
So I just finished I just

1700
02:10:05,760 --> 02:10:10,000
Yeah, this is Lin's book. I finished that one. We we interviewed her so we finished that one nice

1701
02:10:10,640 --> 02:10:14,480
Uh, the pdf form obviously, but uh, I just finished this book

1702
02:10:15,120 --> 02:10:20,800
and uh chip wars and this was really good and the reason why I would uh,

1703
02:10:20,960 --> 02:10:23,200
There's people if they pick it up and they are reading it

1704
02:10:23,200 --> 02:10:30,480
The reason I like this book is what it's what it's really describing in an indirect way is how, uh

1705
02:10:32,320 --> 02:10:35,600
How complex our supply chains are becoming for

1706
02:10:36,320 --> 02:10:39,600
fundamental building blocks that the world

1707
02:10:40,400 --> 02:10:48,160
Can't do without anymore, which is microprocessors and it's just one example. I would tell somebody this is just one example of many

1708
02:10:48,160 --> 02:10:56,080
Uh pieces and parts and components that that we treat as if they are fundamental building blocks, but they're actually

1709
02:10:57,440 --> 02:10:59,440
The most intellectually dense

1710
02:11:00,240 --> 02:11:02,240
uh

1711
02:11:02,880 --> 02:11:04,880
Organization of material

1712
02:11:06,640 --> 02:11:08,640
That uh

1713
02:11:08,640 --> 02:11:16,080
The like you can't even wrap your header how complex these parts and pieces are so like etching these these chips

1714
02:11:16,080 --> 02:11:19,040
I mean these are hundred million dollar machines

1715
02:11:19,760 --> 02:11:26,640
and only one person making these machines and then you think about all the parts and pieces that go into the machines that etch the chips

1716
02:11:27,360 --> 02:11:28,400
like

1717
02:11:28,400 --> 02:11:34,480
It is it is becoming so and and to go back again until it may be a macro kind of theme

1718
02:11:35,120 --> 02:11:38,240
Um, when you look at what's brought us to this point

1719
02:11:38,240 --> 02:11:45,920
It's the years upon years of creating these, uh digital units that have incentivized

1720
02:11:46,640 --> 02:11:48,640
technology explosion

1721
02:11:48,880 --> 02:11:50,880
and not allowing, uh

1722
02:11:50,880 --> 02:11:55,360
There to be a more like more players in the market. It's forced

1723
02:11:55,840 --> 02:12:02,960
It's forced the consolidation into the hands of one producer of the lithography machine that etches these these chips

1724
02:12:02,960 --> 02:12:10,320
And so I would I would highly encourage people to read this to just gain insight into how

1725
02:12:10,720 --> 02:12:17,840
Insanely complex our society has has become through the the tail end of this fiat system

1726
02:12:18,720 --> 02:12:22,240
And how dependent it is on supply chains to never break down

1727
02:12:22,400 --> 02:12:25,440
We need sheer perfection for prices to never go higher

1728
02:12:26,240 --> 02:12:29,360
And I think we've I think we've reached ludicrous speed

1729
02:12:29,360 --> 02:12:33,600
And I think that we're starting to like come back from ludicrous speed

1730
02:12:34,080 --> 02:12:39,760
And it's it just kind of furthers this larger thesis of like they're not going to be able to control the price inputs

1731
02:12:40,160 --> 02:12:43,520
And if they can't control the price inputs, that means they can't control the treasury market

1732
02:12:43,600 --> 02:12:46,000
Which means they have to find another place to store their value

1733
02:12:46,720 --> 02:12:49,200
Uh, so yeah, that would be the book I recommend right now for people

1734
02:12:49,760 --> 02:12:54,000
Fantastic and uh, where should people find you? Um, uh,

1735
02:12:54,000 --> 02:13:01,120
I'll link I'll link I'll link your noster first in the in the show notes

1736
02:13:01,520 --> 02:13:08,400
Uh, but you're at Preston Pish on Twitter. Uh, I'll put a direct link to your noster as well as your n pub

1737
02:13:08,880 --> 02:13:14,720
Uh, anywhere else you you'd like people to go. Uh, that's perfect. Yeah, this is the two spots that you can interact with

1738
02:13:15,040 --> 02:13:20,240
I'm trying not to respond on twitter anymore and only respond on noster

1739
02:13:20,240 --> 02:13:28,080
I obviously am on twitter and kind of reading the feed with with what not to just kind of keep myself informed with what's happening in the world

1740
02:13:28,160 --> 02:13:35,120
but um, if people want to interact with me ask me questions on on noster because that's where I'm going to uh

1741
02:13:36,000 --> 02:13:41,680
I'm trying to force my responses only on there and kind of ignoring any kind kind of questions. I get on twitter

1742
02:13:42,240 --> 02:13:45,360
Um, but yeah, and then we have the podcast we study billionaires as the feed

1743
02:13:45,440 --> 02:13:48,800
It's pretty much on whatever and then my bitcoin ship comes out on wednesdays

1744
02:13:48,800 --> 02:13:54,960
Yeah, well, uh, thank you so much. And I think that that's a great, uh, it's the mentality I'm trying to have as well with with nosters

1745
02:13:55,520 --> 02:14:02,160
That's where I'm interacting. Um, I guess I'm I'm consuming more on twitter. I'm producing more on noster

1746
02:14:02,560 --> 02:14:06,400
Yes, I think is the way I'm kind of looking at it. Um, I think that's a good way to do it

1747
02:14:06,880 --> 02:14:09,920
Yeah, I'm not going to respond to you if you ask me a question on twitter

1748
02:14:10,000 --> 02:14:14,560
I'm I will respond to you if you ask me a question on monsters. Yeah, what I'm trying to do. Yeah

1749
02:14:15,040 --> 02:14:16,000
Yeah, I

1750
02:14:16,000 --> 02:14:23,200
Gradually then suddenly right now, but surely well, well, press and thank you so much, uh for sharing your scarce time with me

1751
02:14:23,280 --> 02:14:25,840
And thank you to anybody who is watching this

1752
02:14:26,320 --> 02:14:29,360
Bitcoin is scarce, but bitcoin podcasts are abundant

1753
02:14:29,440 --> 02:14:33,600
So thank you for spending your scarce time to listen to another fucking bitcoin podcast

1754
02:14:33,840 --> 02:14:37,520
Preston, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thanks walker. I loved it

1755
02:14:37,520 --> 02:14:45,360
And that's a wrap on this bitcoin talk episode of the bitcoin podcast

1756
02:14:45,920 --> 02:14:50,000
A big thank you to Preston for sharing his scarce time with me for this episode

1757
02:14:50,560 --> 02:14:54,000
You can find him on noster at primal.net slash Preston

1758
02:14:54,400 --> 02:14:58,000
You can find me on noster by going to primal.net slash walker

1759
02:14:58,560 --> 02:15:03,520
If you're interested in sponsoring the bitcoin podcast head to bitcoin podcast net

1760
02:15:03,520 --> 02:15:10,480
If you want to follow the bitcoin podcast on twitter go to at titcoin podcast and at walker america

1761
02:15:11,040 --> 02:15:17,280
You can also find the video version of this podcast and all the others at youtube.com slash at walker america

1762
02:15:17,680 --> 02:15:19,680
And at walker america on rumble

1763
02:15:20,720 --> 02:15:24,240
Bitcoin is scarce there will only ever be 21 million

1764
02:15:24,640 --> 02:15:26,640
But bitcoin podcasts are abundant

1765
02:15:27,200 --> 02:15:32,720
So thank you for spending your scarce time to listen to another fucking bitcoin podcast

1766
02:15:32,720 --> 02:15:35,680
Until next time stay free

1767
02:16:02,720 --> 02:16:04,800
You