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There is no hope for them, right?

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They're living in this world of anger and despair

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because they're like, well, we're screwed.

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Like, what can we do?

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And there are other people like that,

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even on any side of the political spectrum, right?

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I like to believe they're all good people.

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Some of them might be misguided,

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but a lot of them are in despair

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because they don't see the hope.

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With finding home,

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and because I'm not emphasizing Bitcoin all that much,

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it's really a food and travel show.

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And yes, Bitcoin's in the background.

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I want to show people that there are these people

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living incredible lives of hope, of creativity,

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just, you know, building things

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because they love what they're doing.

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And they're having these rich experiences.

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And when people watch that and they're like,

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but how are they doing that?

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My life sucks.

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And that's where the Bitcoin comes in and say,

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oh, wait a second, maybe there is hope.

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I think for Bitcoiners who think they understand,

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as you said, low time preference

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and all the philosophy that we spout all the time.

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Having a kid just makes you realize

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what it all means. It really falls into place. So just going back to the earlier point, without

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maximal adoption of Bitcoin, the revolution has failed and our children will not be living in the

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world that we want to give them. So this is my way of telling stories, of appealing to people's

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emotions, because I think that is what scales adoption more than appealing to people's intellect.

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You can lecture them on Austrian economics and distributed networks and what have you. And,

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And, you know, you'll get a few people, right?

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There are more cerebral kinds.

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You might get them, convince them through the subtle art of argument.

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But appealing to their emotion, appealing to their soul, I think you get a lot more.

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Greetings and salutations, my fellow plebs.

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My name is Walker, and this is The Bitcoin Podcast.

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Bitcoin continues to create new blocks every 10 minutes and the value of one Bitcoin is still one Bitcoin.

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If you are listening to this right now, remember, you are still early.

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Find me on Noster at primal.net slash Walker and this podcast at primal.net slash Titcoin.

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On X, YouTube, and Rumble, just search at Walker America.

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And find this podcast on X and Instagram at Titcoin Podcast.

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Head to the show notes for sponsor links, head to substack.com slash at Walker America to get episodes emailed to you and head to Bitcoin podcast.net for everything else.

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Without further ado, let's get into this Bitcoin talk.

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How many episodes now of Pleb Chain Radio have you guys done?

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121.

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Yeah.

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That was the last one.

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Dude, that is awesome.

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It's incredible.

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And you guys have done such a nice job with that show.

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And just like, I don't know, it's great to see.

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We need more Bitcoin podcasts.

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We need more Nostar podcasts.

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Although I've also been debating recently.

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I'm like, God, you know how this is.

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It's so hard to reach outside the echo chamber, right?

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But just whether that be the Bitcoin echo chamber, the Nostra echo chamber, it's so hard to reach outside of it.

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And part of me is like, you know what always works for people is fucking political podcasts.

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Like for some reason, people flock to those, like, I don't know, flies to shit.

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And part of me is like, you know, maybe I just need to start like a political focused podcast and get a couple of episodes where I'm just, you know, ranting and doing the whole political thing.

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and start just inserting in Bitcoin stuff kind of subtly, you know, in a sly roundabout way,

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because it's just like, man, you want to, I mean, you know, this feeling you want to,

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you want to help people. You want to spread the good word about Bitcoin or about Noster.

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And it's just like, most people just can't be bothered. But then I come back to like,

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maybe, maybe it's not our jobs to save them, but I want to, but I don't know if that just makes me

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naive or what or uh too you know too i don't know i i don't even really know what i'm saying more

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than just it's like man i wish people gave as much of a shit about uh you know monetary and

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communication freedom as they do about the real housewives of yeah insert city and maybe that's a

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losing battle though well i think you're right it is a challenge and you can get lost in that

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frustration right frankly it's hard to break out even within our little niche right with the twitter

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or the x algorithm like you post something it goes into the void for the most part even on

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nostril right it's it's there's no algo it's a chronological feed but you know you've got to keep

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if you're producing something that's meaningful right and you want people to see it you've got

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to go and keep reposting it be your own algo otherwise it's just lost you know and it's it's

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funny too like i uh i i for a while like was not reposting any of my own stuff because i was like

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some somehow had this in my brain from the from the centralized algorithm platforms they're like

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now you know reposting your own stuff is lame or cringe or something like that then i was like okay

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on a noster it's kind of a necessity because it's like you need to if you like you want people to

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see the work that you're doing you do the work presumably because you believe it has value and

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that's why i know you do the work that you do that's why i do the work that i do but it's like

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So, you know, just kind of get over yourself and hit that re-note button over and over and over again until it gets out into the space more.

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But I am glad to see that there's more algorithmic choice happening on Noster now.

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I mean, even stuff like this isn't algorithm-based, but like the follow packs that Callie had developed.

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I also love that it's like, oh, yeah, I'll just, you know, Jack said the one thing missing from Noster that Blue Sky has was follow packs.

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So I guess I'll just do my Cyberpunk thing, code up some follow packs and like just, I don't know, it's incredible.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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The beauty of Nostra is it's so easy to build these things.

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You have an idea and you build it, right?

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It's a fairly simple and composable stack.

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And now with some of these vibe-coded solutions that are out there, everyone's a dev now.

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What's the one, Shakespeare, that's part of this thing?

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Jack's funding, right?

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Shakespeare that's like basically sets you up to be able to vibe code Noster app specifically,

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right? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it started off. Which is awesome. Yeah, that the and other stuff

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initiative. I'm sure you know this Walker, but maybe for folks who are unfamiliar. So Jack set

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up this initiative called and other stuff. And there are five pillar four or five pillars in it.

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One is around privacy, I think.

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Callie is leading that.

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There's another one that Jeff G is leading.

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Rabble's got communities.

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And then the fourth one is AI, which is what Alex Gleason is leading.

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And then they launched this thing called MKStack first, or MKStacks, about a month or two ago,

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where you can vibe code, basically, in natural language, using something that looks like Goose.

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Build Nostraps.

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And then now Shakespeare is sort of the next iteration of that.

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I love it. And honestly, like, you know, people, I still see people on because I'm yes, I'm still a, you know, a cuck who's on X, right? I'm still using it. But I see people on there all the time, just really like attacking Jack a lot.

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and there's probably some fair criticisms in there from prior stuff i think people also

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underestimate how much power the ceo of a publicly traded company actually has uh when the government

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comes knocking your door and it's like i i love to see what he's doing now first of all he's not

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only is he funding awesome open source development but he's back to coding himself now you know i i've

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uh bit chat for one the you know bluetooth mesh network completely offline which again

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to give Callie another shout out.

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He ported it over to Android from iOS,

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started sending e-cache over it within hours,

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and it's just like, wow,

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you've got to love the pace of open source dev.

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And then Jack did another one.

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It's, what is it?

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I think it's just sun, or I don't know.

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I've been using it actually like-

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Or the sun timer, right?

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Sunday, Sunday.

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I've been using it literally actually every day

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because I was just curious and it's kind of fun,

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and I spend a lot of time outside,

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unless I'm in my dark room here.

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So, yeah, it's great to see. I think that's a vibe shift is Jack getting back into coding. It feels that way.

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Yeah. Yeah. I think for sure. And I think more broadly with AI assisted coding, right? A lot of semi-technical people or lapsed engineers, myself included, by the way, in that list. There were so many ideas that folks, you know, semi-technical people have and they've had over the last, whatever, five, 10 years. And it's like, oh, yeah, it would be nice if I could raise some money to hire the devs to build this.

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And now you're in a place where you can vibe code it.

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Now, it won't be a full production thing necessarily, right?

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But you can fast prototype it, get people to test it.

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And potentially, if you have the money like Jack does, you can hire the team to build it out.

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Or it's much easier to raise funding as a solo entrepreneur now because you can have these quick prototypes.

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Yeah, you can get to an MVP with never-before-seen speed.

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and oh yeah and decent quality like yeah it's not going to be perfect it's an mvp

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but it's it's on the right track there and that's just like yeah i feel like that's uh

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this word gets thrown around a lot but it's very democratizing you know it opens up doors to a lot

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more people and i mean as as like jeff booth always likes to talk about the marginal cost

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of production trending towards zero thanks to technology yeah it used to cost you a lot of money

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to get to a minimum viable product for an app.

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Now it's like the cost of your ChatGPT subscription

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or you can use, there's a number of free tools

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depending on how much, what you need.

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Like there's so many open source tools.

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Like all of these costs are trending towards zero essentially.

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And that's when priced in fiat.

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And then if you check what's the marginal cost

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trending towards when priced in Bitcoin,

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it's accelerating towards zero even faster.

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And so it's just, it's cool to see it.

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It's a chaotic time, but it's a hopeful time, Avi.

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oh it certainly is and you know i people i don't think a lot of people realize what an incredible

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confluence is happening at the intersection of ai bitcoin and nostril and i'll throw e-cash in there

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as well i don't know if you've if you've seen this this came out a couple of months ago it's

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something called routster have you heard of no i i have not heard of this okay so there's this guy

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shrumanik young guy and i actually met him when i was in prague last month uh but i uh he developed

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this thing called Rostor. It's built on Nostor.

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So, take

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a step back. If you're a developer who's

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trying to make API calls to AI

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engines, like ChatGPT or whatever

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it is, you have to go to OpenAI.

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And this is a little

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the API subscription is a little

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different from your regular membership

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or whatever, your regular

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subscription. You have to go there. Now

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OpenAI makes you do

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full KYC.

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You have to hold your phone

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up, record a video of yourself, take

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your driver's license to get that API key from them.

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And the others do this too, by the way,

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Anthropic, Claude.

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So Routster, this guy came up with this genius idea.

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I don't know how he did this at the back end,

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but you get an eCache token, right?

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You get an eCache token and you paste that

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in the place where you would put your API key.

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Behind the scenes, everything is taken care of.

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So it's no KYC AI usage.

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You can call any model using an eCache token

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instead of an API key.

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Wow. So he's basically taking the KYC on himself, taking that presumably to at least port into all of these different models.

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And then has made it so that basically all you need to do is stay anonymous, drop an eCash token in there.

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I mean, that's incredible.

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Yeah.

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That's really cool.

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Because he's building this on Noster, you can be a provider, meaning you can be the entity that takes on the KYC.

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So you're essentially arbitraging KYC, right?

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And eventually the way I see this evolving is you'll pick your provider based on web of trust on Nostrad.

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Like, yeah, this guy has all the people I know, are friends with this guy or whatever, are in the web of trust.

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So I'm going to pick this provider, no KYC.

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I can call any AI model.

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Now, obviously, you have to pay for the compute, which is where the e-cash comes in, right?

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So, yeah.

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Well, I think it's fascinating, too, with eCash, because this is something that, to your point about Web of Trust, is going to be kind of vital for eCash.

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For people, like, because, I mean, and Callie himself has said this.

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Like, he said this on, he was on the show maybe almost a year and a half ago now talking about Cashew in its slighter earlier days.

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Like, so much has been built since then.

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But he was saying, look, this is not layer one Bitcoin.

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You can get rugged.

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like yes like it you should know that up front but like when you incorporate the web of trust

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into that then it becomes okay i'm decreasing my rug risk because you know what avi is somebody

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that i trust he's connected with a lot of people that i trust if avi rugs this mint well like

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i'm gonna make a stink about it other people are gonna make a stink about it that's gonna ruin his

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his reputation and your reputation is ultimately worth a lot more than a few sats i mean hopefully

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for somebody like you.

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It is, you know?

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For sure.

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And I think there's something

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really interesting coming

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down the pike here, Walker.

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And so there's this company, Fanfares.

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They're about to launch their version

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to in the next month or two.

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And they're making the case,

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you mentioned reputation, right?

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It's pivoting the attention economy,

224
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which is what we've been plagued by, right?

225
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Advertisers and everything else.

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Flipping the script

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and making it a reputation-based economy.

228
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So any content you consume

229
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comes from a source you consider reputable.

230
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And that source, if they want to maintain their reputation,

231
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,320
whether it's to be a provider for no KYC AI,

232
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whether it's to run a mint on cash or whatever it might be,

233
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it could be book or movie recommendations even,

234
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they have to think long and hard about their reputation

235
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and the risk it could take or the hit it could take

236
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if they recommend something bad.

237
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And so you can actually cut advertisers out of the mix

238
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and move to a purely reputation-based system.

239
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So that's, fanfares is one,

240
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it's all NOSTA based, by the way, that's coming.

241
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And there are others who are thinking

242
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along these lines as well,

243
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sort of move from the attention economy

244
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to the reputation economy.

245
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Well, and I think in, let's call it the post-AI future,

246
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where AI is ubiquitous

247
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and where you could argue that we're already there.

248
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I mean, I think people may debate this,

249
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but the future is here.

250
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It's just not evenly distributed yet, but it's in some small part.

251
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It is at least here.

252
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:52,760
But in that future, reputation starts to matter so very much because when everything is is forgeable, when everything and everything is infinitely replicable, when any you have to doubt any interaction you see online and wonder, did this really happen?

253
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or is this i mean like the even i was just messing around with um with uh gemini and vo3 and like

254
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it's crazy how good it is already and it's it's getting better and even you know mid-journey it

255
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,000
now has the ability to animate stuff like there's so many different tools you can use and it's all

256
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accelerating and at a time when this is happening and it is we are still at the infancy like it is

257
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,780
going to get to the point you're like i can tell that you know it's you can't even tell based on

258
00:16:18,780 --> 00:16:21,820
the fingers anymore. You know, that was like the dead giveaway for a while. I was like, well,

259
00:16:21,820 --> 00:16:27,720
there's 18 fingers on one on that woman's one hand. Like that's obviously AI. Now it's like

260
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,080
the fingers are good, but there's still little things. It's like, you know, we're somewhere in

261
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,600
that weird uncanny valley where you can like, it's pretty realistic, but you can still kind of tell,

262
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:40,380
but it's going to get to the point where even a trained eye will have a lot of difficulty.

263
00:16:40,660 --> 00:16:47,460
And so what matters in that post AI future where you don't know what is real and fake? Well,

264
00:16:47,460 --> 00:16:51,160
you can't tell unless something is cryptographically signed.

265
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If it is not cryptographically signed, you should not trust it.

266
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:57,200
And so then that reputation,

267
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,140
the reputation of you hold being the key bearer of that cryptographic

268
00:17:01,140 --> 00:17:04,740
signature, that matters a lot because that's proof of humanness.

269
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And without doing the weird world coin eyeball scanning,

270
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which is like their whole thing too.

271
00:17:09,940 --> 00:17:13,300
Sam Altman, like, oh, wow, that's funny how that worked out.

272
00:17:13,300 --> 00:17:15,740
Like he's taking away the ability to distinguish who's a human and not.

273
00:17:16,180 --> 00:17:17,400
And then, but he provides a perfect solution.

274
00:17:17,460 --> 00:17:19,240
And just let me scan your retina real quick.

275
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:19,940
It's not a big deal.

276
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:20,800
Right.

277
00:17:21,420 --> 00:17:25,240
And proof of humanness manifests itself in two ways, I think, two very key ways.

278
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,060
One is what you just said, is that cryptographically signed events, right?

279
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:31,000
And you tie your reputation to that.

280
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:32,860
The second is authenticity.

281
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,460
In a world of slop, which, and let's be honest here,

282
00:17:37,460 --> 00:17:42,860
I mean, if you look at some 99% of images and videos on X especially,

283
00:17:42,980 --> 00:17:44,840
but even on Nostra, up your slop.

284
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:49,920
and that human creativity expressed through authenticity,

285
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:51,820
I think will stand out.

286
00:17:52,660 --> 00:17:53,800
That's my bull case anyway.

287
00:17:54,100 --> 00:17:55,960
Or we just go into this dystopia,

288
00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,180
this brave new world where we're being fed slop in our brains,

289
00:18:00,420 --> 00:18:03,660
eating, watching, whatever it is.

290
00:18:03,660 --> 00:18:07,360
But no, as a Bitcoin, I'd rather stick to the bull case.

291
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:10,340
I'm with you there.

292
00:18:10,660 --> 00:18:13,120
Bitcoiners are nothing if not optimistic.

293
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:14,460
We're incredibly realistic.

294
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:19,000
Also, because you have to be in order to see how kind of fucked up the world is.

295
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:19,220
Right.

296
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,580
But and without Bitcoin, you'd probably go from realism to nihilism.

297
00:18:23,580 --> 00:18:28,360
But because Bitcoin exists, we Bitcoiners get to be optimistic about the future and Noster exists.

298
00:18:28,460 --> 00:18:29,580
So I'm even more optimistic.

299
00:18:30,340 --> 00:18:39,160
And people like you exist who are not producing AI slop, but perfect transition are producing really incredible film.

300
00:18:39,580 --> 00:18:42,080
And that's why that is why you're here today.

301
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:47,840
let's talk about that a little bit because I want to make sure we get into that and then we can come

302
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:54,720
back to all manner of things AI related but this is certainly not slop you've got a pilot episode

303
00:18:54,720 --> 00:19:02,120
out of your new show Finding Home let's talk about this because this is a this to me seems to be

304
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:10,500
Bitcoin content that's not about Bitcoin but has a little Bitcoin heartbeat going along it so talk

305
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:16,280
to me about it. What is it, first of all, how did you decide to even start doing this?

306
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:21,780
Yeah. The origin story is interesting, Walker, because you were tangentially involved in this.

307
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:30,020
You might not remember this, but it was at BTC Prague in 2023, where you and Carla were there.

308
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:35,500
And the morning of, I think, the first or second day, I was just sitting and thinking,

309
00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:38,560
you know, wouldn't it be nice to do something truly original?

310
00:19:39,380 --> 00:19:41,700
And it also has to be something that I enjoy doing.

311
00:19:42,340 --> 00:19:45,540
And, you know, I was still in the process of writing my book at that time.

312
00:19:45,860 --> 00:19:46,700
It's a Bitcoin novel.

313
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:51,140
So, yes, I suppose you could call that original as well in the Bitcoin world.

314
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,100
But I said, what would be cool and what I'd really enjoy doing

315
00:19:55,100 --> 00:20:00,720
is making an Anthony Bourdain-inspired food and travel show with Bitcoiners

316
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,940
as a sly roundabout way of orange filling because everyone loves food.

317
00:20:04,940 --> 00:20:06,340
Everyone loves travel.

318
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:08,760
No one did it better than Bourdain.

319
00:20:08,940 --> 00:20:12,500
He was a philosopher, first and foremost, more than a chef or whatever it was, right?

320
00:20:13,340 --> 00:20:14,980
So just take a leaf out of that book.

321
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:16,780
Obviously, there is only one, Bourdain.

322
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:22,220
So really view him more as a North Star or an inspiration and try and pay homage to that.

323
00:20:22,260 --> 00:20:26,800
So this was over two years ago, June of 2023 in Prague.

324
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:34,740
that evening uh if you remember we were at that a dinner a group dinner joe nakamoto his now fiance

325
00:20:34,740 --> 00:20:39,820
sophie you carla and i and a couple of others where they were they had these fire breathers

326
00:20:39,820 --> 00:20:46,420
or fire dancers and whatnot fun dinner and we were sitting in the in the patio after we'd finished

327
00:20:46,420 --> 00:20:50,360
eating and i'd mentioned this to you guys i we'd had a few drinks by then so i forgive you for not

328
00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:55,820
remembering i'm remembering it now and it was more than a few i think to be fair it was a it was a

329
00:20:55,820 --> 00:21:00,760
fun atmosphere it was it was certainly a fun atmosphere and i and i so that i had the idea

330
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:07,060
that morning and i mentioned it to you guys and he said yes absolutely you should do it uh now

331
00:21:07,060 --> 00:21:14,140
these things take time and part of it is you need yes it was an idea yes it was something that i was

332
00:21:14,140 --> 00:21:21,500
i was excited by but they at least for me right i need to get to a point where the mindset shift

333
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:29,420
happens and saying, you could just do stuff. Because here's the problem, right? The mind,

334
00:21:29,420 --> 00:21:38,520
the cerebral cortex can come up with all sorts of reasons why something can fail. And I listened

335
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,340
to that for a long time saying, yeah, you know, it would be amazing, but you got to get it funded.

336
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,700
You know, I'm not, I don't want to do a simple iPhone production. I want to, you know, have,

337
00:21:47,700 --> 00:21:51,760
make a proper production with actual cameras and Netflix quality.

338
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:53,600
Well, where am I going to get the money for it?

339
00:21:53,780 --> 00:21:56,020
I have a fiat job, you know, all of that stuff.

340
00:21:56,700 --> 00:21:58,980
And finally, I reached a point maybe a year afterwards.

341
00:21:58,980 --> 00:22:05,720
I was at the Bitcoin Film Fest in Warsaw in April of last year, 2024.

342
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,000
And I bumped into Parker Worthington, Webworthy.

343
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:15,240
He's the filmmaker for BTC Pay Server, works very closely with Rockstar and others.

344
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,140
And they were premiering their film there, My Trust in You is Broken.

345
00:22:19,660 --> 00:22:20,980
And he directed that.

346
00:22:21,300 --> 00:22:23,060
So we got chatting and I told him about the idea.

347
00:22:23,140 --> 00:22:23,860
He said, this is amazing.

348
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:24,880
I want to help you out.

349
00:22:26,100 --> 00:22:29,760
So it took us a few months to identify the right target.

350
00:22:29,940 --> 00:22:35,680
And then we found this place in Harlem, a Somali restaurant called Safari.

351
00:22:35,860 --> 00:22:36,860
The owner is a Bitcoiner.

352
00:22:37,260 --> 00:22:38,200
They accept Bitcoin.

353
00:22:38,460 --> 00:22:39,540
I said, let's film that.

354
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:41,700
And by then, this is what the idea had become.

355
00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:50,320
originally it was as i said baudin inspired show but with bitcoiners there's a sly roundabout with

356
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:57,700
orange billing but i thought it would be really cool to tell expat stories not just any bitcoiners

357
00:22:57,700 --> 00:23:03,320
with bitcoin are expats or bitcoin are immigrants because there's a parallel story to be told

358
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:10,780
just as the expat or the immigrant is finding a new physical home because they're bitcoiners they're

359
00:23:10,780 --> 00:23:14,560
also in the process of finding a sovereign home in Bitcoin.

360
00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:17,860
So that's what the story devolved to.

361
00:23:17,860 --> 00:23:20,660
So Shakib was from Somalia originally.

362
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,480
He moved here over 20 years ago to New York.

363
00:23:24,740 --> 00:23:25,660
So yeah, filmed there.

364
00:23:26,380 --> 00:23:29,180
It took a while to get all the editing and everything done.

365
00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:33,280
Parker is an incredibly busy man with all of his BTC pay and other commitments.

366
00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:35,920
And then had it ready.

367
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:40,220
Ironically, I wanted to find a home for the show itself.

368
00:23:40,780 --> 00:23:43,960
looking for studios and so on.

369
00:23:43,980 --> 00:23:45,520
And obviously, you know, it's a pilot.

370
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,920
I have no, I'm an engineer for heaven's sake, right?

371
00:23:49,180 --> 00:23:53,540
I have no sort of history making anything like this.

372
00:23:53,980 --> 00:23:58,720
But yeah, eventually got it in front of a lot of people

373
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,660
in private, got their feedback, tweaked it a little bit

374
00:24:01,660 --> 00:24:05,400
and then launched it on IndieHub as of last week.

375
00:24:05,540 --> 00:24:09,200
IndieHub is this lightning enabled pay-per-view platform.

376
00:24:09,660 --> 00:24:10,480
So this is just the beginning.

377
00:24:10,780 --> 00:24:18,080
If the pilot was just me getting comfortable with the format, right, and the storytelling and so on.

378
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:19,900
But yes, there's going to be a lot more.

379
00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:22,660
Filmed a second episode when I was in Prague last month.

380
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,840
That's in post-production now and a few others planned.

381
00:24:28,420 --> 00:24:28,920
I love it.

382
00:24:28,980 --> 00:24:37,980
Actually, I hadn't used IndieHub before until I paid with Lightning to watch the film, which I love any opportunity to pay with Bitcoin.

383
00:24:37,980 --> 00:24:47,940
And, of course, if anyone from the IRS is listening, I'm definitely reporting all of those transactions exactly as I should, naturally.

384
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,620
And your Zapps, too, let's not forget, are Nostra.

385
00:24:52,220 --> 00:24:53,240
All of them, yes.

386
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:54,820
You write them down on a piece of paper.

387
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:55,640
Yeah.

388
00:24:56,100 --> 00:25:00,320
And, I mean, those are actually donations to my personal 501c3, so it's okay.

389
00:25:01,820 --> 00:25:03,980
I get a lot of money from USAID as well.

390
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:05,380
But, no, I digress.

391
00:25:05,380 --> 00:25:07,840
So, I loved the first episode.

392
00:25:07,980 --> 00:25:11,200
And I, again, I love this idea of Bitcoin content.

393
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,900
It's not explicitly about Bitcoin.

394
00:25:14,260 --> 00:25:15,740
It's part of the story.

395
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:21,600
It helps you make your decisions about, like for you, I assume, you know, who are you going to talk to next?

396
00:25:21,660 --> 00:25:22,560
Who are you going to cover next?

397
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,180
That's part of it, right?

398
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,700
It's leading you in the right direction.

399
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:30,600
But it's not just this, you know, it's not a Bitcoin podcast.

400
00:25:30,740 --> 00:25:31,500
It's something different.

401
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:32,480
You're eating good food.

402
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:33,120
You're talking.

403
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:39,660
and I'm curious too I mean can you maybe share a little bit of just your story like what what does

404
00:25:39,660 --> 00:25:44,400
finding home mean for you because I sense that this is also a a deeply personal question

405
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:52,000
yeah it certainly is so you know I was born in India and spent my childhood there and I

406
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:57,120
came here for grad school a long time ago actually a few months after 9-11 interestingly enough

407
00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:02,140
really okay I moved to New York yeah when everyone said why you moved to New York that's crazy

408
00:26:02,140 --> 00:26:05,160
I said, hey, that's what I'm going to do.

409
00:26:05,380 --> 00:26:13,180
And, you know, I never felt fully at home in India, which is kind of odd growing up there.

410
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:13,920
I had friends.

411
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,460
I had, you know, obviously family.

412
00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:25,380
But much as I love the country, much as I love the food and the people, never felt fully at home.

413
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,760
New York City, I would say a few years in, was the closest I felt.

414
00:26:32,140 --> 00:26:38,140
to being home. But even then, I was still, you know, I was a foreigner, especially my first few

415
00:26:38,140 --> 00:26:46,220
years, moved in there. And then, you know, the pandemic hit a few years later, five years ago.

416
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:53,360
And we had to, we had a son was nine at that time, and we had to leave, my wife and I, and

417
00:26:53,360 --> 00:27:06,717
because it was just not safe New York City went nuts during the pandemic as a lot of the big cities did We left Chicago too So I feel you there We were like get us to bumblefuck nowhere and fast

418
00:27:06,817 --> 00:27:10,137
We'll just stay for three weeks, though, till this blows over. And then it was like three years later.

419
00:27:11,137 --> 00:27:11,937
How'd that happen?

420
00:27:12,497 --> 00:27:18,077
That is exactly what it started with an Airbnb in the middle of nowhere in the mountains of upstate New York.

421
00:27:18,197 --> 00:27:22,877
And next thing we knew, we put an offer in for a house and we're here.

422
00:27:22,877 --> 00:27:28,657
But even here, I mean, this more so, culturally, I do not feel at home.

423
00:27:28,797 --> 00:27:29,397
I mean, it's nice.

424
00:27:29,477 --> 00:27:29,897
It's lovely.

425
00:27:30,017 --> 00:27:30,977
The nature is amazing.

426
00:27:31,377 --> 00:27:35,517
And it's, you know, we have pets now.

427
00:27:35,697 --> 00:27:39,057
So incredibly grateful for everything that we have here.

428
00:27:39,617 --> 00:27:41,717
But I just don't fit in.

429
00:27:42,917 --> 00:27:47,237
You know, Bitcoin happened shortly before we moved there.

430
00:27:47,317 --> 00:27:52,657
So as a Bitcoiner, you're around people who have no clue, right, of what's going on.

431
00:27:52,657 --> 00:28:03,877
And there's a lot of good people here in the community, but a lot of despair because they understand the problems and they just don't see the solution.

432
00:28:04,037 --> 00:28:07,337
And I've tried to talk to them about Bitcoin and they don't get it.

433
00:28:07,477 --> 00:28:09,437
It's like, oh, no, it's digital money.

434
00:28:09,497 --> 00:28:10,477
We understand cash.

435
00:28:12,317 --> 00:28:17,477
I'm in a very, let's just say, rural part of upstate New York in the mountains.

436
00:28:17,477 --> 00:28:19,497
And a lot of despair here.

437
00:28:19,497 --> 00:28:27,637
And it, yeah, you know where I do feel home is at Bitcoin gatherings, at Bitcoin conferences.

438
00:28:27,837 --> 00:28:29,777
And it's a fleeting ephemeral thing, right?

439
00:28:29,817 --> 00:28:32,897
You're there and it's just incredibly intense thing.

440
00:28:32,997 --> 00:28:35,517
I mean, you know, we have dinners like the one we were at in Prague.

441
00:28:35,937 --> 00:28:37,197
Every conference is like that.

442
00:28:37,377 --> 00:28:40,197
And it's like, wow, I actually belong.

443
00:28:40,637 --> 00:28:41,557
These are my people.

444
00:28:41,657 --> 00:28:42,357
This is my tribe.

445
00:28:42,517 --> 00:28:44,877
This is, you know, Bitcoin is a country in some sense.

446
00:28:44,877 --> 00:28:47,797
but yes, finding home for me

447
00:28:47,797 --> 00:28:49,517
I don't know if I've ever felt

448
00:28:49,517 --> 00:28:51,997
fully home in a physical

449
00:28:51,997 --> 00:28:52,557
space

450
00:28:52,557 --> 00:28:55,937
fully home, maybe partly home

451
00:28:55,937 --> 00:28:56,777
but not fully

452
00:28:56,777 --> 00:28:59,617
but certainly in the sovereign sense

453
00:28:59,617 --> 00:29:00,877
I am home in Bitcoin

454
00:29:00,877 --> 00:29:03,477
You know

455
00:29:03,477 --> 00:29:05,037
it's so funny what you say about

456
00:29:05,037 --> 00:29:07,297
that fleeting

457
00:29:07,297 --> 00:29:09,017
ephemeral feeling that you try to

458
00:29:09,017 --> 00:29:11,317
hold on to after a Bitcoin conference

459
00:29:11,317 --> 00:29:12,697
being around people

460
00:29:12,697 --> 00:29:16,897
that get it. And it won't always be this way, right? When Bitcoin is ubiquitous,

461
00:29:17,097 --> 00:29:22,517
of course, it won't be such a great filter for people. But right now it is. It's a great,

462
00:29:22,517 --> 00:29:31,957
I have met more people than I can possibly count that I just have admiration for, have respect for,

463
00:29:32,157 --> 00:29:38,137
have love for. I didn't realize I was going to meet so many people at this point in my life.

464
00:29:38,177 --> 00:29:42,577
I'm not that old. I'm in my early 30s. But still, it gets harder to meet people that you actually

465
00:29:42,577 --> 00:29:47,957
click with and you want to spend time with. But through Bitcoin, that has happened for Carla and

466
00:29:47,957 --> 00:29:53,697
I. And I just, I feel so grateful. And I have to think it's almost, it's similar to that experience

467
00:29:53,697 --> 00:29:58,317
when you go to a Bitcoin concert, and you come back to the real, you know, quote, the real world,

468
00:29:58,657 --> 00:30:03,217
whatever, Normie land, right? Normie land. And you're still kind of, you're kind of high off

469
00:30:03,217 --> 00:30:06,137
that experience, you know, but it's like you're coming, it's like you're coming out of a trip,

470
00:30:06,137 --> 00:30:10,437
right? And, and, and the, you know, the high is starting to fade, because you're realizing the

471
00:30:10,437 --> 00:30:16,477
reality doesn't look, it doesn't look the way you want it to you because you've seen how reality

472
00:30:16,477 --> 00:30:21,997
should look. And you wish it could stay that way. But it's, it's just not the case. And you try to

473
00:30:21,997 --> 00:30:25,637
hold on to it, you try to, you know, you try to orange pull your friends, you try to do these

474
00:30:25,637 --> 00:30:33,017
things, but it's, it's just not quite the same. But again, I think we're, that's the beautiful

475
00:30:33,017 --> 00:30:37,817
thing, at least at this time about Bitcoin conferences, about Noster conferences or

476
00:30:37,817 --> 00:30:44,417
on conferences it's really special right now like it's you know it was that quote from the office

477
00:30:44,417 --> 00:30:48,797
uh it's like andy's like i you know i wish there was a way to know that you're in the the good old

478
00:30:48,797 --> 00:30:55,157
days when you're in them it's like we're in them guys like we we are in them right now cherish these

479
00:30:55,157 --> 00:31:02,797
moments because it will not always be this way yeah for sure actually by the way walker you made

480
00:31:02,797 --> 00:31:07,017
a Freudian slip and he said Bitcoin concert and it's funny. Did I really? Oh, excuse me.

481
00:31:07,017 --> 00:31:12,917
You did. No, no, no, no, no. But maybe. I said that because I said the same thing. I made the

482
00:31:12,917 --> 00:31:16,817
same Freudian slip earlier today, two hours ago, and I was talking to my wife. I said Bitcoin

483
00:31:16,817 --> 00:31:22,377
concert and she said, did you just say Bitcoin concert? Well, well, well. Yeah, exactly.

484
00:31:22,797 --> 00:31:27,537
We're going to have to have a talk after this for a planning session. But okay, I digress.

485
00:31:27,537 --> 00:31:31,817
Okay, I want to know more too, because I watched the episode.

486
00:31:32,337 --> 00:31:33,357
I liked it very much.

487
00:31:33,477 --> 00:31:39,497
You're, first of all, from a guy with, dare I say, a great voice, if I'm not being too bold.

488
00:31:39,697 --> 00:31:40,937
You have an incredible voice.

489
00:31:41,197 --> 00:31:43,797
You've got the perfect voice for this kind of show.

490
00:31:44,197 --> 00:31:49,417
For anyone that hasn't checked this out, you can go on Avi's Nostra.

491
00:31:49,497 --> 00:31:50,097
You'll see the links.

492
00:31:50,177 --> 00:31:51,777
I'll drop the links in the show notes afterwards.

493
00:31:52,137 --> 00:31:54,977
You should watch this show, about 33 minutes or so.

494
00:31:55,477 --> 00:31:56,557
Perfect length for an episode.

495
00:31:56,557 --> 00:31:58,537
it was just enjoyable to watch.

496
00:31:59,237 --> 00:32:00,137
I love food.

497
00:32:00,237 --> 00:32:00,797
I love to cook.

498
00:32:00,897 --> 00:32:01,537
I love to eat.

499
00:32:02,077 --> 00:32:04,457
I love to hang out and try new foods.

500
00:32:04,717 --> 00:32:06,257
And that was this show.

501
00:32:06,517 --> 00:32:08,717
Like you captured, yes, Bourdain is Bourdain,

502
00:32:09,817 --> 00:32:11,537
but you're, you know, Avi is Avi.

503
00:32:11,817 --> 00:32:13,197
And you captured something, I think,

504
00:32:13,237 --> 00:32:14,277
that felt really special.

505
00:32:14,797 --> 00:32:16,517
It seems like the response has been

506
00:32:16,517 --> 00:32:18,777
overwhelmingly positive and supportive.

507
00:32:19,037 --> 00:32:19,637
Fair to say?

508
00:32:20,177 --> 00:32:20,817
Yes, absolutely.

509
00:32:21,417 --> 00:32:23,717
I mean, this is new, right?

510
00:32:24,197 --> 00:32:25,637
There are a lot of podcasts

511
00:32:25,637 --> 00:32:28,037
and they're excellent podcasts as well.

512
00:32:29,037 --> 00:32:32,157
And I think this is, I mean, it's not quite a podcast,

513
00:32:32,377 --> 00:32:41,197
but there is a 15-minute conversation over food in the episode.

514
00:32:42,417 --> 00:32:47,277
So I think it is an interesting twist and people have appreciated it.

515
00:32:47,277 --> 00:32:51,637
And also food is so primal for people that it almost,

516
00:32:51,817 --> 00:32:54,977
when you're eating especially, you're sort of out of your conscious mind.

517
00:32:55,637 --> 00:32:57,517
especially if you're eating something you really like.

518
00:32:58,037 --> 00:33:01,157
You're no longer, you know, your brain isn't working.

519
00:33:01,337 --> 00:33:05,857
It's your soul and your whatever it is, your heart that's there.

520
00:33:06,057 --> 00:33:10,897
So you can get that even when you watch people eating really good food, right?

521
00:33:10,917 --> 00:33:12,977
You can briefly step out of that thing.

522
00:33:13,097 --> 00:33:20,017
So my, I guess, slightly insidious idea here is when I get people out of that,

523
00:33:20,017 --> 00:33:24,257
if I can get them into that state where there's not fully in their brains

524
00:33:24,257 --> 00:33:33,217
but more in their heart and their soul, you slide Bitcoin into that slightly ajar door to their subconscious mind.

525
00:33:34,817 --> 00:33:39,277
Yeah, look, one thing I'll say is this episode was just the beginning, right?

526
00:33:39,577 --> 00:33:41,137
It's me getting used to the format.

527
00:33:42,037 --> 00:33:47,657
I think you'll see once the Prague episode is out and then I'm filming a third one in Paraguay in September,

528
00:33:48,297 --> 00:33:50,677
the narrative arc is going to become a lot more cohesive.

529
00:33:50,677 --> 00:33:55,097
I don't think I'm going to do like a 15-20 minute stretch of just non-stop talking.

530
00:33:55,277 --> 00:33:57,657
It's going to be cut in with a lot more.

531
00:33:57,977 --> 00:33:59,637
You know, with New York, we had one day.

532
00:33:59,877 --> 00:34:01,537
So we had about three or four hours of footage.

533
00:34:01,997 --> 00:34:03,117
And boom, we were done.

534
00:34:03,477 --> 00:34:06,937
I think the way to do this is film over three or four days, which is what I did in Prague.

535
00:34:07,237 --> 00:34:12,877
Get about 10 hours of footage in various different locations so that you can keep the action going.

536
00:34:13,217 --> 00:34:15,437
Not in just one place over time.

537
00:34:15,737 --> 00:34:17,157
So, yeah, it's fun, man.

538
00:34:17,157 --> 00:34:22,057
And the food part, certainly as a food lover myself, it's great.

539
00:34:23,557 --> 00:34:32,437
I mean, three or four hours of footage for over 30 minutes of finished cut is actually, that's a wild ratio for this kind of thing.

540
00:34:32,697 --> 00:34:38,557
Like that's super impressive because it's still, I didn't ever feel like it was dragging or anything like that.

541
00:34:38,597 --> 00:34:40,157
So that's really impressive.

542
00:34:40,297 --> 00:34:43,857
You guys did quite a condensed effort on that one.

543
00:34:43,957 --> 00:34:44,717
That's awesome.

544
00:34:45,777 --> 00:34:46,537
Yeah, yeah.

545
00:34:46,537 --> 00:34:55,657
And Parker, all credit to Parker for that, who unfortunately is such a busy and in-demand man that he, for the next two episodes, it's not going to be him.

546
00:34:55,997 --> 00:35:02,257
However, for the Prague episode, I found a really talented young filmmaker.

547
00:35:02,417 --> 00:35:04,697
He's a Bitcoiner, a guy called Kyle Huber.

548
00:35:05,777 --> 00:35:08,717
And he was on his way to Bulgaria.

549
00:35:09,397 --> 00:35:11,537
And he's filming his own Bitcoin documentary there.

550
00:35:11,897 --> 00:35:13,077
But he made a stop in Prague.

551
00:35:13,497 --> 00:35:15,217
And he helped me with the filming.

552
00:35:15,217 --> 00:35:18,717
and it's being edited and directed by,

553
00:35:18,937 --> 00:35:20,317
I'm really excited about this,

554
00:35:20,937 --> 00:35:23,017
by Lahav and Noah.

555
00:35:23,837 --> 00:35:26,897
So Noah Grumman is the lead singer

556
00:35:26,897 --> 00:35:29,537
for the metal band Scardust.

557
00:35:30,657 --> 00:35:31,657
And they're big on it.

558
00:35:31,737 --> 00:35:33,097
You know, they did the Satoshi video

559
00:35:33,097 --> 00:35:34,797
from a couple of months ago,

560
00:35:34,797 --> 00:35:35,597
two or three months ago.

561
00:35:36,157 --> 00:35:37,597
And Lahav is the filmmaker

562
00:35:37,597 --> 00:35:39,617
and their partners, Noah and Lahav.

563
00:35:40,237 --> 00:35:42,997
And amazing director.

564
00:35:42,997 --> 00:35:46,797
So I'm really looking forward to what they come up with.

565
00:35:48,097 --> 00:35:48,697
That's awesome.

566
00:35:48,817 --> 00:35:53,037
I mean, have you thought about, obviously, in this case, it happened just because of scheduling.

567
00:35:53,577 --> 00:36:05,017
But have you thought about making that just a recurring theme that you have different filmmakers, different directors come in, add their spin to each episode while you still obviously have the vein of yourself running through it all?

568
00:36:05,117 --> 00:36:06,777
But is that something you're toying around with?

569
00:36:07,057 --> 00:36:07,537
Okay.

570
00:36:08,117 --> 00:36:09,357
I like that style.

571
00:36:11,097 --> 00:36:12,757
Necessity is the mother of invention, right?

572
00:36:12,997 --> 00:36:23,477
It is because the thing is, look, if this is a well-funded project, if I had an executive producer putting in 100 grand or even 50 grand per episode, then I could hire a team, especially at the 100 grand range.

573
00:36:23,557 --> 00:36:24,777
I could hire a permanent team, right?

574
00:36:25,237 --> 00:36:27,457
Directors, editors, social media, all of that stuff.

575
00:36:27,537 --> 00:36:32,477
Now, first two episodes completely out of my pocket, which is not really sustainable, by the way.

576
00:36:32,957 --> 00:36:33,757
I can imagine.

577
00:36:33,757 --> 00:36:43,197
Right. But what it's going to have to be is – so for Paraguay, the third episode, I'm filming at the Accelerating Bitcoin Conference.

578
00:36:43,397 --> 00:36:49,277
And I found an amazing subject for that as well, another finding home story there in Paraguay.

579
00:36:50,497 --> 00:36:56,297
I found an executive producer who's been very generous, but obviously we're not talking about 100K.

580
00:36:57,697 --> 00:37:00,817
And I'm actually using this platform called Angor.

581
00:37:01,277 --> 00:37:06,657
It's a fully self-custodial fundraising platform that's built on Bitcoin and Noster.

582
00:37:07,097 --> 00:37:08,297
It's kind of really cool, actually.

583
00:37:09,017 --> 00:37:10,097
And I've raised some money on that.

584
00:37:10,097 --> 00:37:14,297
I just saw this, that you posted about this or reposted them on Noster.

585
00:37:14,417 --> 00:37:16,857
I hadn't heard of them before, but I was like, oh, this is really cool.

586
00:37:17,517 --> 00:37:18,537
Yeah, it's really cool.

587
00:37:18,697 --> 00:37:19,797
And again, it's new, right?

588
00:37:19,837 --> 00:37:22,557
So I'm helping them out by trying out something new.

589
00:37:22,557 --> 00:37:26,797
And they're helping me out as well by putting it out there.

590
00:37:26,957 --> 00:37:28,657
So, yes, I have to fundraise.

591
00:37:28,657 --> 00:37:38,837
But all of that to say, because this is, I'm trying to create a high quality product, a Netflix quality product with, frankly, a shoestring budget.

592
00:37:39,297 --> 00:37:42,857
I'm going to have to do it with different teams, right?

593
00:37:42,917 --> 00:37:43,997
Because I cannot have.

594
00:37:44,377 --> 00:37:51,777
So what I end up sacrificing there is potentially visual cohesion because it's different people filming it.

595
00:37:51,777 --> 00:37:58,677
And they're going to have slightly different angles and slightly different way they think about how light hits subjects and things like that.

596
00:37:58,717 --> 00:38:02,317
So I sort of forego that visual cohesion.

597
00:38:02,317 --> 00:38:10,457
But what I will have to do, and I am going to do this, is tie together with the narrative or the storytelling cohesion because I'm going to be there.

598
00:38:11,797 --> 00:38:11,897
Yeah.

599
00:38:11,897 --> 00:38:26,077
Yeah. I mean, and honestly, I think that's a it's a cool way to be able to, you know, perhaps unintentionally so, but necessarily so have a lot of visual diversity with as you're having a lot of different culinary diversity.

600
00:38:26,077 --> 00:38:32,137
Right. You're doing different types of food, all this. You're going to have a slightly different vibe to the film style for each one of them.

601
00:38:32,457 --> 00:38:38,077
Honestly, I think that plays really well. And even if it even if it didn't, it's what you got to do.

602
00:38:38,077 --> 00:38:40,177
So you may as well make the best of it.

603
00:38:41,377 --> 00:38:43,037
I think that's great.

604
00:38:43,237 --> 00:38:46,517
And I saw your, yeah, I think I saw Angor, you posted it.

605
00:38:46,737 --> 00:38:48,017
But people can support you.

606
00:38:48,117 --> 00:38:54,157
They can become an executive producer or an associate producer or an honorable mention on the show as well if they want to send some sats.

607
00:38:54,817 --> 00:38:56,077
And I think that's awesome, too.

608
00:38:56,217 --> 00:38:59,937
I might have to do a little Zapvertising of the podcast on there, maybe.

609
00:39:01,097 --> 00:39:01,337
Love it.

610
00:39:01,957 --> 00:39:02,117
Yeah.

611
00:39:02,917 --> 00:39:03,637
No, Angor's great.

612
00:39:03,817 --> 00:39:05,317
It's all on-chain, by the way, right?

613
00:39:05,317 --> 00:39:07,117
So I think Geyser is great, too.

614
00:39:07,117 --> 00:39:09,057
and that supports lighting and on-chain.

615
00:39:09,517 --> 00:39:11,757
I think the difference is this is fully self-custodial.

616
00:39:11,877 --> 00:39:14,717
So the funds are time-locked using Bitcoin script

617
00:39:14,717 --> 00:39:19,997
and then every fundraiser is its own NOSTA,

618
00:39:20,957 --> 00:39:22,737
gets its own NPUB.

619
00:39:22,977 --> 00:39:25,097
So if you actually search for Finding Home Episode 3,

620
00:39:25,177 --> 00:39:27,697
you'll find its own NPUB on NOSTA.

621
00:39:29,857 --> 00:39:33,377
And some of this funding happens through reputation scores

622
00:39:33,377 --> 00:39:35,597
or at least that's the plan anyway, right?

623
00:39:35,597 --> 00:39:44,397
So if you invest and then you take advantage of the time lock and you rock pull as an investor, it's on Noxia that you've done that.

624
00:39:44,617 --> 00:39:46,237
So your reputation is going to take a hit.

625
00:39:47,157 --> 00:39:47,997
Similarly, yeah.

626
00:39:49,557 --> 00:39:52,757
I mean, that's pretty interesting, honestly.

627
00:39:53,297 --> 00:39:58,957
I love that these new models are emerging at a time when they're very much needed.

628
00:39:59,097 --> 00:40:00,917
Again, necessity is the mother of invention.

629
00:40:00,917 --> 00:40:09,157
It's just a bunch of people getting together and hacking stuff together and making it work because we have these incredible open source tools at our disposal, which now make it possible.

630
00:40:09,857 --> 00:40:17,117
And the fact that there's a, you know, not a social credit, but just a social proof of work aspect to this, let's say.

631
00:40:17,617 --> 00:40:20,157
I think that's really powerful.

632
00:40:21,057 --> 00:40:23,397
And this is organic and emergent, right?

633
00:40:23,397 --> 00:40:24,537
You can call it social.

634
00:40:24,637 --> 00:40:28,277
I mean, social credit is, the phrase is lost.

635
00:40:29,217 --> 00:40:30,017
It's toxic now.

636
00:40:30,017 --> 00:40:41,177
But it's done. But it's a this is an organic and emergent property right in these networks, which is you are fully responsible for your reputation.

637
00:40:41,597 --> 00:40:46,937
You mess it up. You've impacted your score to the extent that you can put a number on it.

638
00:40:46,937 --> 00:40:52,997
But it's all on you. This is not some central party giving you a number saying that's your credit score.

639
00:40:53,597 --> 00:40:55,597
So I'm all for it.

640
00:40:55,597 --> 00:41:03,817
yeah i mean like that's the thing uh it comes back to trust right and you need trust to build

641
00:41:03,817 --> 00:41:08,477
society like that's how society that's how community is built it's the that's the whole

642
00:41:08,477 --> 00:41:14,917
point of it it is the point and it is the way like you need trust to build community and having trust

643
00:41:14,917 --> 00:41:19,777
is the point of community so that you can live in a small village and not need to lock your doors

644
00:41:19,777 --> 00:41:23,937
because you're not worried about your neighbor coming and robbing you because there would be

645
00:41:23,937 --> 00:41:29,297
extreme consequences for doing that. The risk trade-off is just not there. You have trust in

646
00:41:29,297 --> 00:41:36,857
people. And it's like we have these trustless tools. And I think sometimes people get it mixed

647
00:41:36,857 --> 00:41:39,957
up where they think, well, we don't need trust at all anymore. But it's like, oh, you need trust

648
00:41:39,957 --> 00:41:47,237
now more than ever. It's just that there are actually more pure ways to build that trust

649
00:41:47,237 --> 00:41:53,137
that are now available to us because these tools are trustless. It's counterintuitive,

650
00:41:53,137 --> 00:41:58,057
but we don't even know what kind of incredible things

651
00:41:58,057 --> 00:41:59,537
are going to emerge from this yet.

652
00:41:59,597 --> 00:42:00,417
We're seeing them now.

653
00:42:00,537 --> 00:42:02,677
We're seeing these embers come to life.

654
00:42:03,337 --> 00:42:05,337
But I just think it's going to get so much better

655
00:42:05,337 --> 00:42:07,777
because, again, the incentive model is different

656
00:42:07,777 --> 00:42:08,977
and incentives matter.

657
00:42:09,157 --> 00:42:11,317
And we're seeing that right now in real time.

658
00:42:11,937 --> 00:42:12,517
I don't know.

659
00:42:12,577 --> 00:42:13,377
What a time to be alive.

660
00:42:13,617 --> 00:42:14,557
Again, I'm grateful.

661
00:42:15,257 --> 00:42:16,317
Oh, yeah, for sure.

662
00:42:16,937 --> 00:42:19,477
And thank God for Bitcoin and Nostro.

663
00:42:19,477 --> 00:42:27,477
i honestly i would be i would uh i would be extremely nihilistic i think at this point if

664
00:42:27,477 --> 00:42:34,637
i knew what i know now but i didn't but just you take bitcoin and no strata the equation forget the

665
00:42:34,637 --> 00:42:39,557
fact that bitcoin is the way that i found a lot of these uh things out because of you know going

666
00:42:39,557 --> 00:42:45,017
down various rabbit holes but take that away hypothetical if i didn't have bitcoin and no stir

667
00:42:45,017 --> 00:42:48,817
and I had all the knowledge that I do now about how fucked up the world is,

668
00:42:48,977 --> 00:42:52,437
oh man, I would be in a very dark place.

669
00:42:53,197 --> 00:42:54,657
So I'm glad that's not the case.

670
00:42:54,737 --> 00:42:56,157
I'm in a very light place right now.

671
00:42:56,937 --> 00:42:58,157
Oh yeah, and likewise.

672
00:42:58,357 --> 00:43:01,677
And so actually that's another motivation behind finding home,

673
00:43:02,437 --> 00:43:05,877
which is, we talked about the folks in upstate New York,

674
00:43:05,877 --> 00:43:10,957
even the people who can see the problems, who can acknowledge what's wrong,

675
00:43:11,437 --> 00:43:12,817
there is no hope for them, right?

676
00:43:12,817 --> 00:43:15,857
They're living in this world of anger and despair because they're like, well, we're screwed.

677
00:43:16,037 --> 00:43:16,857
Like, what can we do?

678
00:43:17,617 --> 00:43:21,897
And there are other people like that on any side of the political spectrum, right?

679
00:43:22,957 --> 00:43:24,837
I like to believe they're all good people.

680
00:43:24,937 --> 00:43:26,437
Some of them might be misguided.

681
00:43:27,717 --> 00:43:31,637
But a lot of them are in despair because they don't see the hope.

682
00:43:32,017 --> 00:43:38,177
And with Finding Home, and because I'm not emphasizing Bitcoin all that much, it's really a food and travel show.

683
00:43:38,217 --> 00:43:39,457
And yes, Bitcoin's in the background.

684
00:43:39,457 --> 00:43:53,697
I want to show people that there are these people living incredible lives of hope, of creativity, of just building things because they love what they're doing.

685
00:43:54,197 --> 00:43:57,957
And they're having these rich experiences.

686
00:43:58,917 --> 00:44:01,657
And when people watch that and they're like, how are they doing that?

687
00:44:01,837 --> 00:44:02,877
My life sucks.

688
00:44:03,777 --> 00:44:07,477
And that's where the Bitcoin comes in and say, oh, wait a second, maybe there is hope.

689
00:44:07,477 --> 00:44:13,217
Right. So that's if I'm successful doing that, that would that would.

690
00:44:13,597 --> 00:44:16,277
Yeah. The show's a success if that can happen.

691
00:44:17,777 --> 00:44:19,917
So you quit your fiat job, right?

692
00:44:19,977 --> 00:44:25,357
You are now like you're you're you're you're off the rails and into Bitcoin and Nosterland full time.

693
00:44:25,477 --> 00:44:27,297
Yeah. Yes, pretty much.

694
00:44:27,417 --> 00:44:30,837
As of July 4th, I quit my fiat job.

695
00:44:31,157 --> 00:44:31,897
Yes. Thank you.

696
00:44:31,897 --> 00:44:39,597
On the 4th of July, too, independence from the fiat job and from those totalitarian British bastards.

697
00:44:41,257 --> 00:44:44,956
I'm pretty sure they had quite a hand in your home country as well.

698
00:44:46,337 --> 00:44:47,937
Just a little bit, right?

699
00:44:48,277 --> 00:44:48,417
Yeah.

700
00:44:49,437 --> 00:44:50,437
I can imagine.

701
00:44:50,817 --> 00:44:53,877
I couldn't guess at all where your accent comes from, for example.

702
00:44:54,077 --> 00:44:55,217
Who could know?

703
00:44:56,597 --> 00:44:58,597
But no, I love this.

704
00:44:58,597 --> 00:45:02,497
And I'm curious, too, do you want to keep this indie?

705
00:45:03,077 --> 00:45:05,077
Do you want to keep it kind of grassroots funded?

706
00:45:05,077 --> 00:45:11,537
Or let's say Netflix sees this tomorrow, comes to you and says, we want this show.

707
00:45:11,637 --> 00:45:13,977
We're going to throw a ton of money at you.

708
00:45:15,197 --> 00:45:16,717
Well, maybe there's two cases there.

709
00:45:16,797 --> 00:45:18,697
There's the case where they say, don't change a thing.

710
00:45:18,777 --> 00:45:19,317
Keep doing it.

711
00:45:19,357 --> 00:45:19,857
We love it.

712
00:45:20,177 --> 00:45:25,837
And there's the case where they say, yeah, we love it, but we want we need you to to adjust.

713
00:45:26,077 --> 00:45:28,417
Just adjust this a little bit because this doesn't quite align.

714
00:45:28,417 --> 00:45:35,677
Where are you at with that? Have you thought about that at all? Is it still too early stages? I have no idea how this stuff works with getting shows picked up.

715
00:45:36,277 --> 00:45:49,637
I've thought about it. And I think that the truth is, Walker, I want as many people to see this, right? Because my goal is to get people into Bitcoin. And if I make money along the way, great.

716
00:45:49,637 --> 00:45:58,017
so it's okay yes that's right yeah and if netflix or hulu or apple tv or whoever

717
00:45:58,017 --> 00:46:01,917
comes and says yes we want this on a network now the best case scenario is they say

718
00:46:01,917 --> 00:46:07,777
you have full editorial control we just love the show keep doing what you're doing here's whatever

719
00:46:07,777 --> 00:46:14,897
100k whatever 500k per episode knock yourself out knock yourself out i take it much as i'd love to

720
00:46:14,897 --> 00:46:18,997
keep this on a lightning enabled pay-per-view platform like IndieHub.

721
00:46:19,277 --> 00:46:20,877
And by the way, shout out to Zach Mahoney.

722
00:46:21,037 --> 00:46:23,357
He's built an amazing product there.

723
00:46:25,337 --> 00:46:25,977
Super smooth.

724
00:46:26,717 --> 00:46:27,417
Oh, it's great.

725
00:46:27,557 --> 00:46:27,657
Yeah.

726
00:46:27,956 --> 00:46:31,717
And he's been working on it for a while now as well, Zach.

727
00:46:32,537 --> 00:46:34,537
So thank you, Zach, for everything you do.

728
00:46:35,617 --> 00:46:40,357
But if one of those big studios were to come and offer me a large sum of money,

729
00:46:40,417 --> 00:46:41,217
I would take it.

730
00:46:41,697 --> 00:46:44,097
Firstly, because I don't have a fiat job anymore.

731
00:46:44,097 --> 00:46:46,997
I'm kind of living off my savings right now.

732
00:46:47,717 --> 00:46:51,377
And I'd like to not do that if possible.

733
00:46:52,757 --> 00:46:55,017
And the second is I do want to get this in front of people.

734
00:46:55,717 --> 00:46:59,777
So that would just get me the distribution right off the bat.

735
00:47:01,237 --> 00:47:06,257
Now, if they asked me to bring in, for example, if Coinbase came and said,

736
00:47:07,117 --> 00:47:10,597
here's a million bucks, go and make season one.

737
00:47:10,997 --> 00:47:12,517
And they said, keep your editorial integrity.

738
00:47:12,517 --> 00:47:14,057
I don't have to think about that because it's Coinbase.

739
00:47:14,177 --> 00:47:18,456
But if they said you could just do what you're doing, I might do it.

740
00:47:18,717 --> 00:47:25,097
If they say, oh, you've got to include crypto in there, I don't care if it's $10 million or $20 million or a billion dollars.

741
00:47:25,137 --> 00:47:25,757
I wouldn't do it.

742
00:47:25,917 --> 00:47:30,357
And same goes for any of these other major places like Netflix.

743
00:47:31,557 --> 00:47:32,797
The money doesn't matter.

744
00:47:32,997 --> 00:47:38,257
If it stops being Bitcoin only, if I have to compromise my ethics or values, there's no money in the world.

745
00:47:38,377 --> 00:47:39,697
That will help me sleep at night.

746
00:47:41,437 --> 00:47:42,397
Amen to that.

747
00:47:42,517 --> 00:47:48,177
I mean, the lucky thing there is that there really aren't a lot.

748
00:47:48,377 --> 00:47:54,177
Bitcoin is accepted in a lot of places, a lot of what you're concerned with, in this case, restaurants.

749
00:47:55,517 --> 00:48:03,217
The places where crypto is accepted, they are far fewer because it turns out a lot of it, who knew?

750
00:48:03,456 --> 00:48:08,477
Obviously, this is going to shock you, but a lot of it is just vaporware meant to enrich the founders.

751
00:48:08,997 --> 00:48:09,417
No way.

752
00:48:09,817 --> 00:48:10,177
I know.

753
00:48:10,677 --> 00:48:11,837
It's crazy, man.

754
00:48:11,837 --> 00:48:12,777
You wouldn't believe it.

755
00:48:13,437 --> 00:48:16,917
But yeah, so I mean, at least, but I hear you and I respect that 100%.

756
00:48:16,917 --> 00:48:23,757
It's like, if you get to keep your editorial decision-making capability, then great.

757
00:48:24,317 --> 00:48:28,017
But if not, it's like it wouldn't be worth it.

758
00:48:28,057 --> 00:48:29,377
You'll have to stick with the plebs.

759
00:48:29,456 --> 00:48:36,817
But honestly, this show has a vibe where I'm like, man, this seems like, I've watched a lot of food shows because I like food.

760
00:48:37,297 --> 00:48:40,097
Like Carl and I like watching food shows and you try to make stuff that you see.

761
00:48:40,097 --> 00:48:49,917
Like, I remember when when Chef's Table first came out and I was like, oh, like this is Vivaldi slow motion.

762
00:48:50,097 --> 00:48:50,517
Oh, my.

763
00:48:50,657 --> 00:48:51,097
Yes.

764
00:48:51,777 --> 00:49:00,557
Chef's Table is the reason I have Vivaldi in my in my in the intro to every show, you know, because I love because it's different, different, different part of Vivaldi's seasons.

765
00:49:00,956 --> 00:49:02,297
But Vivaldi, nonetheless.

766
00:49:02,297 --> 00:49:14,757
But it's like there's something about food and hearing people's stories and seeing it all happen at the same time that like – to what you're saying earlier, like it tugs at something in our primal brain.

767
00:49:14,977 --> 00:49:16,637
And it just – it's amazing.

768
00:49:17,197 --> 00:49:20,217
And it's also – it's its own form of artistry as well.

769
00:49:20,777 --> 00:49:25,497
Like food is just really delicious, edible art.

770
00:49:26,157 --> 00:49:29,597
And like you see that people's love and passion comes through their food.

771
00:49:29,597 --> 00:49:41,057
Like, whether that be in your family or at a lovely restaurant or at some hole in the wall on the side of the highway where you have the best tacos you've ever had in your life, which is the story for me.

772
00:49:41,277 --> 00:49:43,137
Literally, best tacos I've ever had in my life.

773
00:49:43,837 --> 00:49:46,537
We're in a Midwestern gas station.

774
00:49:47,397 --> 00:49:50,357
Well, there's a little taco shop attached to a gas station, family run.

775
00:49:50,437 --> 00:49:51,977
And I'm like, where has this been hiding?

776
00:49:52,117 --> 00:49:53,037
How does this exist here?

777
00:49:53,137 --> 00:49:53,997
This is insane.

778
00:49:54,997 --> 00:49:56,097
I digress again.

779
00:49:56,097 --> 00:49:59,517
But food and stories, like, I don't know.

780
00:49:59,597 --> 00:50:02,097
It's just like that's kind of just what life's about, right?

781
00:50:03,037 --> 00:50:05,257
That's every night at the dinner table, right?

782
00:50:06,617 --> 00:50:07,017
Oh, yeah.

783
00:50:07,617 --> 00:50:10,717
And, you know, Chef's Table, another one of my favorite shows.

784
00:50:11,237 --> 00:50:13,857
That is you need a very expensive setup for that.

785
00:50:13,857 --> 00:50:24,117
Now, I wanted to make something like Chef's Table, but that like the camera set up and you have to shut the restaurant down to get all of that.

786
00:50:24,117 --> 00:50:32,797
So maybe if the funding is there at a later point in this season or maybe season two, that is the aesthetic I'm going for for the food shots, right?

787
00:50:32,817 --> 00:50:34,677
I do want that chef's table vibe.

788
00:50:35,197 --> 00:50:41,017
Maybe if I can get someone to play Vivaldi for me so that I don't have to pay royalty to whichever musician.

789
00:50:42,297 --> 00:50:51,157
You actually – there are a lot of open source – or not open source but royalty-free cuts of Vivaldi out there because the music itself is like – it's old, right?

790
00:50:51,157 --> 00:50:51,617
It's past.

791
00:50:51,817 --> 00:50:53,897
Like you can't – there's no copyright on the music itself.

792
00:50:54,117 --> 00:51:01,257
On specific performances there may be, but there are tons out there that are complete royalty-free licenses.

793
00:51:01,677 --> 00:51:03,177
So just got to find a good one.

794
00:51:03,357 --> 00:51:04,797
I'll send you a couple after.

795
00:51:05,217 --> 00:51:06,157
Throw some Vivaldi in there.

796
00:51:06,237 --> 00:51:07,657
We all need more Vivaldi in our life.

797
00:51:07,956 --> 00:51:08,877
Yes, absolutely.

798
00:51:09,057 --> 00:51:10,037
Especially the winter suite.

799
00:51:12,517 --> 00:51:14,757
I love me a little summer as well.

800
00:51:14,917 --> 00:51:15,917
Don't get me wrong.

801
00:51:17,117 --> 00:51:19,997
I love the whole thing, let's be honest.

802
00:51:20,677 --> 00:51:20,817
Yeah.

803
00:51:20,817 --> 00:51:29,897
Yeah, but there's something, just going back to that, watching people eat food, it's almost like you're eating it, especially if it's well shot, right?

804
00:51:29,956 --> 00:51:32,897
And the food looks good and plated nicely.

805
00:51:33,577 --> 00:51:35,397
And then hearing their stories.

806
00:51:35,857 --> 00:51:44,956
And, you know, any expat or immigrant story is almost always going to be interesting because it's a story of travel.

807
00:51:44,956 --> 00:51:48,277
It's a story of trying to find something that they couldn't find.

808
00:51:48,277 --> 00:51:51,237
or it's a story of finding something

809
00:51:51,237 --> 00:51:53,417
but trying to recreate a piece of that childhood there

810
00:51:53,417 --> 00:51:57,057
because there's always something fascinating.

811
00:51:57,317 --> 00:51:59,077
And so you pair those two together

812
00:51:59,077 --> 00:52:00,657
and you have some nice music.

813
00:52:01,397 --> 00:52:03,997
You have a nice sort of background vocals

814
00:52:03,997 --> 00:52:05,417
saying something philosophical.

815
00:52:05,917 --> 00:52:09,456
It's almost always guaranteed to be a hit.

816
00:52:10,517 --> 00:52:12,577
Especially you have a perfect voice

817
00:52:12,577 --> 00:52:14,617
for saying philosophically minded things.

818
00:52:14,837 --> 00:52:16,817
It's really an unfair advantage you're playing.

819
00:52:18,277 --> 00:52:28,177
Well, thank you. But yes, so I've heard. Of course, Walker coming from a man who's claimed to have the best voice in Bitcoin. That is high praise.

820
00:52:28,817 --> 00:52:45,097
Many people are saying it. I can neither confirm nor deny. A lot of good voices in Bitcoin. But on the American side, I mean, it may be true. But, you know, folks with non-American accents, you have an unfair advantage, I think, at least for us, our American ears.

821
00:52:45,097 --> 00:52:50,817
we, you know, I think we still have a little bit of generational trauma of being subjugated by the

822
00:52:50,817 --> 00:52:56,857
British. And so I think that's what plays out. We view the British or pseudo-British posh side

823
00:52:56,857 --> 00:53:01,837
accent, not like a good old Cockney accent, but we view the posh accents as like, well, they must be

824
00:53:01,837 --> 00:53:07,057
smart. And, you know, you got to train yourself out of that, I think. Let me ask you this, Walker,

825
00:53:07,057 --> 00:53:12,137
do you, when you listen to your voice played back, do you like it? Or are you like, oh my God,

826
00:53:12,137 --> 00:53:22,517
who the hell is this pipsqueak uh tough question i i used to not like it when i hadn't like i wasn't

827
00:53:22,517 --> 00:53:26,577
really recording my voice very often if i occasionally heard my voice recorded for

828
00:53:26,577 --> 00:53:32,657
whatever reason i'd be like the fuck that's what i sound like uh it was super strange now because

829
00:53:32,657 --> 00:53:37,697
it's like it's almost like exposure therapy like you're when you're editing your own show

830
00:53:37,697 --> 00:53:43,477
you're forced to listen to yourself more than you might want to and so I've kind of just like

831
00:53:43,477 --> 00:53:50,277
gotten over that I almost it's almost a little like maybe a little out of body too like when I

832
00:53:50,277 --> 00:53:55,217
was doing Lawrence Lepard's book that was little that wasn't even a podcast episode that was like

833
00:53:55,217 --> 00:54:08,173
I need to edit this audiobook that 13 hours long in terms of finished read and that was like I just had to take myself out of it i also had to raise my voice a little bit and uh basically i should have

834
00:54:08,173 --> 00:54:13,033
honestly filmed myself uh doing the read because i'm literally i'm trying to i'm trying to brighten

835
00:54:13,033 --> 00:54:17,374
my voice and speak up here a little bit more and the only way to do that is to raise your eyebrows

836
00:54:17,374 --> 00:54:22,613
and to smile because one of the biggest things i get like on youtube is people being like yeah

837
00:54:22,613 --> 00:54:27,273
great great uh great podcast but why are you doing this fake batman voice and i'm like well

838
00:54:27,273 --> 00:54:31,773
i don't know i guess it's just my voice bro like i don't know what to tell you so i was like okay

839
00:54:31,773 --> 00:54:36,334
gotta brighten the voice up don't want this to be a detractor from larry's incredible book

840
00:54:36,334 --> 00:54:41,533
uh so yeah that was uh that one was easier to disassociate i think because i was already

841
00:54:41,533 --> 00:54:47,374
doing a slight affectation to raise the pitch of my voice just a little bit yeah yeah yeah

842
00:54:47,374 --> 00:54:48,814
What about you? Do you like your voice?

843
00:54:49,093 --> 00:54:49,834
I like your voice.

844
00:54:50,413 --> 00:54:51,553
I used to hate it.

845
00:54:51,693 --> 00:54:53,713
I was like, what the hell is this guy?

846
00:54:54,294 --> 00:54:55,653
But then you kind of get used to it.

847
00:54:55,753 --> 00:54:59,733
Yeah, like you said, when you're re-listening to yourself,

848
00:54:59,733 --> 00:55:03,033
especially when I do the written scripts,

849
00:55:03,233 --> 00:55:04,533
I write the script and I read it,

850
00:55:04,693 --> 00:55:07,193
I can be slow and deliberate and you don't have the pauses

851
00:55:07,193 --> 00:55:08,453
and the ums and ahs, right?

852
00:55:08,513 --> 00:55:10,433
Because you're doing it off a script

853
00:55:10,433 --> 00:55:12,733
and then you listen to it and you cut pieces.

854
00:55:13,874 --> 00:55:15,913
Yeah, I think I finally got to a point where

855
00:55:15,913 --> 00:55:17,973
not just tolerated.

856
00:55:18,093 --> 00:55:20,053
I listened to a few things and I'm like, oh yeah, that wasn't

857
00:55:20,053 --> 00:55:20,493
too bad.

858
00:55:22,053 --> 00:55:22,953
Reasonably well done.

859
00:55:24,314 --> 00:55:26,153
I think it's just part of it. It's just like

860
00:55:26,153 --> 00:55:27,773
getting over your own ego.

861
00:55:28,773 --> 00:55:30,133
With so many things in

862
00:55:30,133 --> 00:55:30,854
life too.

863
00:55:30,854 --> 00:55:32,933
Can you kind of have

864
00:55:32,933 --> 00:55:34,874
that ego

865
00:55:34,874 --> 00:55:36,814
death, which is great.

866
00:55:36,973 --> 00:55:38,533
Greatest name for a venture firm ever.

867
00:55:39,253 --> 00:55:40,814
Shout out to Jeff

868
00:55:40,814 --> 00:55:42,233
Booth and Lynn Alden and all of them.

869
00:55:42,814 --> 00:55:44,294
If you have that ego death,

870
00:55:44,294 --> 00:55:47,553
you just don't care.

871
00:55:47,894 --> 00:55:49,814
It's just like, yeah, what's the big deal?

872
00:55:50,334 --> 00:55:52,334
Like if other people like it,

873
00:55:53,153 --> 00:55:55,033
why are you being so hard on yourself?

874
00:55:55,113 --> 00:55:56,993
It doesn't mean you can't improve what you're doing,

875
00:55:57,533 --> 00:55:59,993
but like don't have some weird aversion to it

876
00:55:59,993 --> 00:56:01,493
just because it's you.

877
00:56:01,854 --> 00:56:02,713
Like get over yourself.

878
00:56:02,794 --> 00:56:03,553
You're not that important.

879
00:56:04,053 --> 00:56:05,794
Like you're a little speck of stardust

880
00:56:05,794 --> 00:56:09,413
on a ball orbiting around a giant nuclear reactor.

881
00:56:09,633 --> 00:56:11,394
Like it's all good, man.

882
00:56:12,273 --> 00:56:13,133
Oh yeah, yeah, for sure.

883
00:56:13,133 --> 00:56:15,733
I think it's just, yeah, you're right.

884
00:56:15,794 --> 00:56:16,513
It is ego death.

885
00:56:16,613 --> 00:56:19,613
It's like not caring whether you're cringe or whatever it is.

886
00:56:19,753 --> 00:56:20,213
It's just that.

887
00:56:20,334 --> 00:56:25,513
And honestly, for most people, that just comes with doing things over and over again.

888
00:56:25,593 --> 00:56:26,993
The first time you do it, you're self-conscious.

889
00:56:27,633 --> 00:56:29,613
Same thing with public speaking as well, right?

890
00:56:29,693 --> 00:56:32,013
You just get over it after a point.

891
00:56:33,493 --> 00:56:42,073
I think it's such an important thing for people to realize that like nobody thinks about you as much as you do.

892
00:56:42,993 --> 00:56:43,533
No one.

893
00:56:45,093 --> 00:56:47,294
It's just not possible.

894
00:56:47,593 --> 00:56:50,314
You think about yourself more than anyone else.

895
00:56:51,093 --> 00:56:54,553
Most people, the people you're passing in the street, they do not care.

896
00:56:55,533 --> 00:56:59,913
There's the great word sonder from the Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows,

897
00:56:59,913 --> 00:57:03,573
which is the essential idea that every person you pass in the street

898
00:57:03,573 --> 00:57:06,213
is living a life just as colorful and vivid as your own.

899
00:57:06,314 --> 00:57:08,834
They're the main character in their own movie.

900
00:57:09,374 --> 00:57:11,173
You're just an extra passing in the street.

901
00:57:11,253 --> 00:57:11,773
They don't care.

902
00:57:11,773 --> 00:57:19,013
They don't even notice you just like you don't even notice them unless you have that wave of sonder where you start to pay attention to these things.

903
00:57:19,153 --> 00:57:28,993
But I think it's so easy for people to get trapped in their own heads and think that everybody cares about what they're doing and how they sound, how they look.

904
00:57:29,433 --> 00:57:31,394
They think that they care about it more than they actually do.

905
00:57:31,553 --> 00:57:33,294
People just do not care that much.

906
00:57:33,933 --> 00:57:34,834
And that's okay.

907
00:57:35,834 --> 00:57:37,553
So just you can be free.

908
00:57:37,673 --> 00:57:38,653
You don't have to be scared.

909
00:57:38,653 --> 00:57:45,334
people are way too wrapped up in their own lives um to think about yeah that's i know on the topic

910
00:57:45,334 --> 00:57:50,854
of sonda you know when i first moved to new york i used to love going to central park uh and i used

911
00:57:50,854 --> 00:57:55,253
to sit on the you know this is a 20 year old or 21 year old back then but one of my favorite

912
00:57:55,253 --> 00:58:02,573
activities was in you know late evening as the summer twilight is setting in just sit on the

913
00:58:02,573 --> 00:58:06,673
park benches on central park west and look at the buildings right across the street

914
00:58:06,673 --> 00:58:12,053
and you'd have these, you know, they're not like very large or very high buildings.

915
00:58:12,193 --> 00:58:14,374
They're seven, eight-story building.

916
00:58:14,453 --> 00:58:16,894
Beautiful, beautiful architecture.

917
00:58:17,193 --> 00:58:20,973
And then you'd see all of these windows and the lights would just come on

918
00:58:20,973 --> 00:58:25,354
and there'd be people like one window here, one person would be doing something,

919
00:58:25,433 --> 00:58:27,914
another person would be doing, right below them, someone else doing something else.

920
00:58:28,193 --> 00:58:29,133
Completely different things.

921
00:58:29,193 --> 00:58:31,973
I'd be sitting there saying all of these people doing all these things,

922
00:58:32,093 --> 00:58:35,874
none of them has a clue what the person below them, above them is doing.

923
00:58:35,874 --> 00:58:41,693
They're all leading their lives without any idea about the other person's existence.

924
00:58:42,013 --> 00:58:43,173
And meanwhile, here I am.

925
00:58:43,394 --> 00:58:46,334
I have a full view of all of their existence.

926
00:58:47,334 --> 00:58:51,113
It's an interesting thing to ponder, Sonder.

927
00:58:51,733 --> 00:58:53,073
Oh, yeah, exactly.

928
00:58:54,073 --> 00:58:56,933
It's been a while since I've gone on the Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows.

929
00:58:57,053 --> 00:58:58,733
Are they still updating that site?

930
00:58:59,773 --> 00:59:00,854
I think so.

931
00:59:00,894 --> 00:59:01,414
I hope so.

932
00:59:02,933 --> 00:59:03,133
Maybe?

933
00:59:03,133 --> 00:59:04,073
I haven't checked recently.

934
00:59:04,073 --> 00:59:06,173
No, I'm going to have to check after this.

935
00:59:07,113 --> 00:59:07,473
Okay.

936
00:59:07,573 --> 00:59:14,633
So, I mean, I've got to say, I always love chatting with you because I never know what direction it's going to go in.

937
00:59:15,334 --> 00:59:16,033
And I'm curious, too.

938
00:59:16,933 --> 00:59:17,253
Okay.

939
00:59:17,394 --> 00:59:22,733
Have we, is there anything that's related to the show that you want to make sure that we cover that we haven't yet?

940
00:59:22,773 --> 00:59:27,213
As far as, like, before we get, you know, we've still got some time before we get too deep into the weeds on other things.

941
00:59:27,394 --> 00:59:28,993
Like, I want to make sure that you get that chance.

942
00:59:28,993 --> 00:59:35,334
The one thing I'm still curious about in the show is how are you going to go about picking your next subjects for the show?

943
00:59:35,394 --> 00:59:37,213
Do you have a plan for that? Are they already lined up?

944
00:59:37,693 --> 00:59:43,354
And if maybe there are like some chefs out there that accept Bitcoin at their restaurant, should they get in touch with you?

945
00:59:43,453 --> 00:59:45,033
Like, can you tell me anything about that?

946
00:59:45,513 --> 00:59:48,273
Yeah, absolutely. I'd love to talk to more folks.

947
00:59:48,273 --> 00:59:53,653
I mean, right now, the idea is to tell the dual story, the parallel story of finding home in a new land.

948
00:59:53,773 --> 00:59:58,773
And then, you know, how Bitcoin, the finding home and the sovereignty that comes with Bitcoin.

949
00:59:58,993 --> 01:00:05,914
So I'm looking for folks who are either expats or immigrants, Bitcoiners, right?

950
01:00:07,673 --> 01:00:12,193
Restauranteurs would be amazing because then you get full access to the kitchen.

951
01:00:12,294 --> 01:00:13,854
But even if it's not restauranteurs, right?

952
01:00:14,073 --> 01:00:18,593
The Prague episode was with Grafton, who's from Vexil.

953
01:00:18,953 --> 01:00:24,794
So he's a cypherpunk guy, but we had a lot of food at a lot of amazing restaurants there.

954
01:00:24,794 --> 01:00:31,933
and and and paraguay is going to be something similar as well it's a czech expat who lives there

955
01:00:31,933 --> 01:00:37,473
um who's moved there so it's going to tell his story and then i have so those are the ones that

956
01:00:37,473 --> 01:00:43,794
i've been able to the first two self-funded the third one i've i have an executive producer and

957
01:00:43,794 --> 01:00:49,633
i've raised some on angor the ones after that i think hey anyone listening if you'd love like to

958
01:00:49,633 --> 01:00:56,394
be an executive producer, you know, reach out to me. I'll be setting up Angor funding for those two.

959
01:00:57,433 --> 01:01:04,713
But I have a few, there are some amazing characters in Bitcoin. And I don't want to go to the famous

960
01:01:04,713 --> 01:01:09,713
people, right? That's the one thing I'm trying to avoid, right? The well-known Bitcoiners,

961
01:01:09,753 --> 01:01:14,113
I think their stories are pretty much out there. They're on the podcast. They're completely out

962
01:01:14,113 --> 01:01:15,973
there. There are some remarkable

963
01:01:15,973 --> 01:01:18,093
Bitcoin stories. And I have three

964
01:01:18,093 --> 01:01:20,093
or four candidates for the

965
01:01:20,093 --> 01:01:21,834
next episodes beyond Paraguay

966
01:01:21,834 --> 01:01:23,894
that

967
01:01:23,894 --> 01:01:26,073
I have lined up. I've talked to them.

968
01:01:26,253 --> 01:01:28,093
They want to do it. It's just a

969
01:01:28,093 --> 01:01:29,513
question of working out the funding

970
01:01:29,513 --> 01:01:30,673
for it.

971
01:01:32,453 --> 01:01:33,953
Daniel just asked in

972
01:01:33,953 --> 01:01:35,874
the chat on Zap.Stream,

973
01:01:36,374 --> 01:01:38,233
can we get Ali from Tahini's

974
01:01:38,233 --> 01:01:39,433
on your show? Is

975
01:01:39,433 --> 01:01:41,914
Tahini's an option? I don't know if you know

976
01:01:41,914 --> 01:01:43,133
them. They're awesome.

977
01:01:43,133 --> 01:01:46,433
people. I still haven't eaten there, but I'm

978
01:01:46,433 --> 01:01:48,533
foaming and watering

979
01:01:48,533 --> 01:01:49,513
at the mouth to do so.

980
01:01:50,273 --> 01:01:52,394
Fantastic idea. I would

981
01:01:52,394 --> 01:01:53,233
love to do that.

982
01:01:54,973 --> 01:01:56,374
Now we can make it

983
01:01:56,374 --> 01:01:58,453
happen. We'll make it in Toronto

984
01:01:58,453 --> 01:02:00,173
and that's a short, I can actually

985
01:02:00,173 --> 01:02:02,233
about Toronto or somewhere in Canada,

986
01:02:02,354 --> 01:02:04,453
right? I'm assuming on the Montreal,

987
01:02:04,834 --> 01:02:05,633
Toronto, wherever.

988
01:02:06,213 --> 01:02:08,273
The great thing about Canada

989
01:02:08,273 --> 01:02:10,374
is that 90% of their population lives within

990
01:02:10,374 --> 01:02:11,894
100 miles of the US border.

991
01:02:11,894 --> 01:02:16,193
so like you know you don't have to go too far unless you've got to go you know all the way over

992
01:02:16,193 --> 01:02:21,153
to like vancouver then that's uh that's that's far for you but yeah no i think i think that would

993
01:02:21,153 --> 01:02:26,713
that'd be awesome i mean the the great thing is that you do have a lot of uh a lot of options like

994
01:02:26,713 --> 01:02:30,973
you know another one that comes to mind if we're talking incredible food boy you almost need to go

995
01:02:30,973 --> 01:02:38,854
to a beefsteak uh because a way slice does uh he's a man who knows his food he knows he knows his

996
01:02:38,854 --> 01:02:46,613
meets uh let's say and just a uh an awesome dude as well so but but yeah i mean you that's you you've

997
01:02:46,613 --> 01:02:51,693
got a lot to choose from like and yes like this is still a very small community but it's like

998
01:02:51,693 --> 01:03:00,113
you have options that's that's pretty cool i i have three seasons at least of 12 episodes each

999
01:03:00,113 --> 01:03:05,874
because there are so many remarkable stories uh to tell here over food and on the topic of

1000
01:03:05,874 --> 01:03:10,733
waistline so i i know of him we follow each other on nostor i've never met him and i've heard all

1001
01:03:10,733 --> 01:03:16,334
about the beef steaks and everything else so yeah i think we make a really good episode oh man okay

1002
01:03:16,334 --> 01:03:25,613
i'm uh i would be happy to connect you guys because he's awesome uh truly just a savant when

1003
01:03:25,613 --> 01:03:31,894
it comes to preparing meats and like and it could be cool for you to do uh like a beef steak

1004
01:03:31,894 --> 01:03:34,314
to cover that as an episode

1005
01:03:34,314 --> 01:03:36,433
because it's such a vibe at these things.

1006
01:03:37,193 --> 01:03:38,573
It's a bunch of people

1007
01:03:38,573 --> 01:03:40,973
eating a lot of meat

1008
01:03:40,973 --> 01:03:41,814
with their hands.

1009
01:03:43,133 --> 01:03:44,993
Usually some libations involved.

1010
01:03:45,753 --> 01:03:46,773
A great atmosphere.

1011
01:03:46,973 --> 01:03:48,593
He's very conscientious

1012
01:03:48,593 --> 01:03:49,794
about the vibe curation,

1013
01:03:49,894 --> 01:03:50,414
about the music,

1014
01:03:50,573 --> 01:03:51,473
about the venue,

1015
01:03:51,573 --> 01:03:52,093
about everything.

1016
01:03:52,294 --> 01:03:55,513
And so it's a whole sensory experience

1017
01:03:55,513 --> 01:03:56,673
and it's quite lovely.

1018
01:03:58,113 --> 01:03:59,294
Yeah, I'd love to do that.

1019
01:03:59,473 --> 01:04:00,773
Maybe the next beefsteak.

1020
01:04:01,894 --> 01:04:03,593
We're going to make it happen.

1021
01:04:03,713 --> 01:04:03,814
Okay.

1022
01:04:03,834 --> 01:04:07,933
I'm putting a pin in that over here to help make that connection.

1023
01:04:08,613 --> 01:04:16,573
But so, I mean, let's assume you have continued to have funding for this.

1024
01:04:16,633 --> 01:04:18,794
Obviously, you can't bootstrap this yourself forever.

1025
01:04:19,553 --> 01:04:22,253
Hopefully, people, I encourage people to go on IndieHub.

1026
01:04:22,933 --> 01:04:25,414
Again, I'll drop the link in the show notes for anyone watching live.

1027
01:04:25,414 --> 01:04:27,314
Just go to Avi's Noster.

1028
01:04:27,314 --> 01:04:34,473
grab that and spend some sats to watch this to to support this filmmaking endeavor but you know

1029
01:04:34,473 --> 01:04:40,073
i mean what's the how far do you want to take this what's what's the ultimate goal is it is it to

1030
01:04:40,073 --> 01:04:46,113
is the ultimate goal to orange pill is the ultimate goal to just to just create a you know a beautiful

1031
01:04:46,113 --> 01:04:53,033
piece of uh culinary cinema how do how do you see this in terms of like what's really driving you

1032
01:04:53,033 --> 01:05:15,153
I think it's both. It's to create a beautiful work of art, right, that is culinary cinema, and also highlight stories of these remarkable people, right? And then the second part is, yes, to Orange Pill, right? I mean, and let's be honest here, right? We are all in on Bitcoin and Nordstrom Freedom Tech.

1033
01:05:15,153 --> 01:05:20,573
But this revolution is only going to be successful if there's mass adoption.

1034
01:05:21,073 --> 01:05:25,633
Otherwise, it's us having – we've had a really good time at conferences and all of these dinners and whatnot.

1035
01:05:26,033 --> 01:05:32,414
But I think thinking five, ten years ahead – and here's another thing, Walker.

1036
01:05:32,493 --> 01:05:36,633
And you, I'm sure, are acutely feeling this having become a father last year.

1037
01:05:37,113 --> 01:05:39,894
I've been a father for slightly longer than that.

1038
01:05:40,173 --> 01:05:43,414
But once you have a kid, it's no longer about yourself.

1039
01:05:43,414 --> 01:05:47,113
It's like, what kind of a world do I want my son to live in?

1040
01:05:47,213 --> 01:05:52,193
And I don't want him to live in this fiat-cocked world that I had to grow up in.

1041
01:05:52,553 --> 01:05:54,334
And I have the tools.

1042
01:05:54,653 --> 01:05:55,553
I have the ability.

1043
01:05:55,673 --> 01:06:00,834
So it's on me as a father to at least try to create that reality for him.

1044
01:06:02,794 --> 01:06:04,533
I could not agree more.

1045
01:06:04,653 --> 01:06:11,414
And it's one of my largest realizations becoming a father was, first of all, it's a light switch

1046
01:06:11,414 --> 01:06:14,153
that once it's turned on, it's not going off.

1047
01:06:14,233 --> 01:06:15,814
Like you are forever changed for the better.

1048
01:06:16,233 --> 01:06:17,173
And that's wonderful.

1049
01:06:17,314 --> 01:06:19,933
But like you cannot, I mean, unless you're like a psychopath,

1050
01:06:20,613 --> 01:06:21,834
like a literal clinical psychopath,

1051
01:06:22,013 --> 01:06:23,314
like you're not turning that off.

1052
01:06:23,414 --> 01:06:23,794
You know what I mean?

1053
01:06:24,193 --> 01:06:27,334
And the other was just that I had no idea

1054
01:06:27,334 --> 01:06:29,294
what true low time preference meant.

1055
01:06:30,053 --> 01:06:32,253
Like I actually had no, I thought I did,

1056
01:06:32,334 --> 01:06:36,553
but I only had the, I had the academic conceptualization of it.

1057
01:06:36,553 --> 01:06:39,394
I didn't have, and as much as I could feel,

1058
01:06:39,473 --> 01:06:40,593
yes, I'm trying to think long-term.

1059
01:06:41,414 --> 01:06:48,834
relatively speaking to where I am now, no, I wasn't even close. It's, it's, uh, hilarious,

1060
01:06:48,834 --> 01:06:54,193
honestly, to think of the fact that I even believe that I had a low time preference. It's like, no,

1061
01:06:54,213 --> 01:07:01,553
no, no, that is a switch that flips hard and you realize, oh no, like what does, like, this is what

1062
01:07:01,553 --> 01:07:05,753
generational thinking means. It means this beautiful child in front of me that, that did not

1063
01:07:05,753 --> 01:07:12,153
exist before that now myself and my wife have a responsibility toward. It's like, and I,

1064
01:07:13,153 --> 01:07:19,933
uh, American hodl, hodl, uh, pardon me as, as he identifies, he told me something. One of the last

1065
01:07:19,933 --> 01:07:26,914
times he was on the show, which is like every, uh, like a boy doesn't become a man until he

1066
01:07:26,914 --> 01:07:33,314
becomes a father. And I think that's actually really spot on and true as, as, as mature as

1067
01:07:33,314 --> 01:07:38,033
you think you are, as enlightened as you think you are, as much of a man as you think you are,

1068
01:07:39,033 --> 01:07:45,334
it changes. And there's a different side of you that gets flipped on when you actually become a

1069
01:07:45,334 --> 01:07:53,794
father. And as usual, you know, American hodl hodl being either intentionally or unintentionally

1070
01:07:53,794 --> 01:07:58,354
quite profound, as he is also being flippant. He has quite a gift for that.

1071
01:07:58,354 --> 01:08:06,354
oh yeah i and you can say tell people this who are not parents yet that you don't understand

1072
01:08:06,354 --> 01:08:11,933
when you have a kid that's when you truly grow up you're you're a kid until you have a kid right

1073
01:08:11,933 --> 01:08:21,193
to rephrase uh what huddle said but uh those are just words you need to experience it let me ask

1074
01:08:21,193 --> 01:08:26,653
you this when when your son was born were you you are presumably you were in the delivery room and

1075
01:08:26,653 --> 01:08:31,954
And you saw the baby come out and the baby made eye contact with you for the first time.

1076
01:08:32,533 --> 01:08:33,793
How was that?

1077
01:08:34,793 --> 01:08:35,894
How was that feeling?

1078
01:08:36,854 --> 01:08:43,914
I remember the first time this little hand grabbed Carla's thumb and then grabbed my thumb as we're sitting there.

1079
01:08:43,914 --> 01:08:56,934
And it was just like, my heart is like so full, but at the same time I have all the, like these incredible, like protector instincts are kicking in at a level.

1080
01:08:56,934 --> 01:09:03,593
Like I've never felt before, like that I have with my wife, but there's like so different, cause look at this tiny little baby and how defenseless it is.

1081
01:09:03,593 --> 01:09:05,434
And like, it needs us.

1082
01:09:05,493 --> 01:09:12,273
And like it, I feel like it kicks you into like a different gear as a, as a man.

1083
01:09:12,273 --> 01:09:14,133
I'm not a woman, so I can't speak to women.

1084
01:09:15,133 --> 01:09:19,993
They're the ones who do the, you know, we men don't do too much work in the creation process.

1085
01:09:20,333 --> 01:09:24,273
We've got a short cameo at the beginning.

1086
01:09:24,454 --> 01:09:24,613
Yeah.

1087
01:09:25,014 --> 01:09:27,514
And then, you know, once the baby's born.

1088
01:09:28,133 --> 01:09:34,293
But like, man, it was, I mean, at the risk of something cliche, it was truly life changing.

1089
01:09:34,773 --> 01:09:36,713
And I'm sure it was the same for you.

1090
01:09:36,773 --> 01:09:39,454
You see that and there's no going back.

1091
01:09:40,054 --> 01:09:41,733
You are changed forever.

1092
01:09:42,273 --> 01:09:43,193
Oh, yeah.

1093
01:09:43,253 --> 01:09:46,394
Switch on, flip the switch on, rip it out of the wall, throw it away.

1094
01:09:46,493 --> 01:09:46,914
It's gone.

1095
01:09:47,253 --> 01:09:48,733
It's just the light's on forever now.

1096
01:09:49,333 --> 01:09:49,713
Yeah.

1097
01:09:50,073 --> 01:09:50,733
No, absolutely.

1098
01:09:50,894 --> 01:09:55,593
And I think it's even more powerful for people who are Bitcoiners who become, and I guess

1099
01:09:55,593 --> 01:09:56,833
as in your case, Walker, right?

1100
01:09:57,394 --> 01:09:58,633
Now, I became a father.

1101
01:09:58,894 --> 01:10:02,093
Interestingly enough, my son does have a block height, but it was just shortly.

1102
01:10:02,773 --> 01:10:05,474
It's a five-digit block height, but he does have one.

1103
01:10:05,753 --> 01:10:05,954
Wow.

1104
01:10:06,293 --> 01:10:06,493
Wow.

1105
01:10:08,573 --> 01:10:11,593
But I knew nothing about Bitcoin back then.

1106
01:10:11,593 --> 01:10:14,354
but I think for

1107
01:10:14,354 --> 01:10:15,954
Bitcoiners who think

1108
01:10:15,954 --> 01:10:18,394
they understand, as you said, low time

1109
01:10:18,394 --> 01:10:20,293
preference and all the philosophy

1110
01:10:20,293 --> 01:10:21,633
that we spout all the time

1111
01:10:21,633 --> 01:10:24,293
having a kid just makes you realize

1112
01:10:24,293 --> 01:10:26,033
what it all means, it really

1113
01:10:26,033 --> 01:10:27,814
falls into place

1114
01:10:27,814 --> 01:10:30,354
and so just going back to the earlier point

1115
01:10:30,354 --> 01:10:30,673
right

1116
01:10:30,673 --> 01:10:34,533
without maximal adoption

1117
01:10:34,533 --> 01:10:35,974
of Bitcoin

1118
01:10:35,974 --> 01:10:37,293
the revolution

1119
01:10:37,293 --> 01:10:38,833
has failed

1120
01:10:38,833 --> 01:10:44,113
and our children will not be living in the world that we want to give them.

1121
01:10:44,653 --> 01:10:49,394
So this is my way of telling stories, of appealing to people's emotions,

1122
01:10:49,394 --> 01:10:53,814
because I think that is what scales adoption more than appealing to people's intellect.

1123
01:10:53,954 --> 01:10:57,833
You can lecture them on Austrian economics and distributed networks and what have you.

1124
01:10:57,833 --> 01:10:59,673
And, you know, you'll get a few people, right?

1125
01:11:00,093 --> 01:11:04,954
The more cerebral kinds, you might get them, convince them through the subtle art of argument.

1126
01:11:04,954 --> 01:11:09,474
But appealing to their emotion, appealing to their soul, I think you get a lot more.

1127
01:11:10,814 --> 01:11:11,653
Appealing to their stomach.

1128
01:11:12,474 --> 01:11:13,373
Their stomach too, yeah.

1129
01:11:14,033 --> 01:11:16,033
Yeah, it makes a difference.

1130
01:11:16,213 --> 01:11:17,213
And I agree.

1131
01:11:17,293 --> 01:11:21,193
And I think this is something Carl and I have actually just talked about for a while.

1132
01:11:21,273 --> 01:11:26,974
Because, you know, there's that tendency when you first get into Bitcoin and you start going down the rabbit hole.

1133
01:11:27,814 --> 01:11:29,314
And you're like, oh my God.

1134
01:11:29,314 --> 01:11:34,613
Like, I need to tell all of my friends and family about this right now.

1135
01:11:34,613 --> 01:11:39,434
And I need to make sure they get it because like, holy shit, I can't believe I didn't know this before.

1136
01:11:39,493 --> 01:11:40,293
My eyes are open.

1137
01:11:40,394 --> 01:11:45,014
A different sort of switch is flipped, you know, and you can't shut your eyes after that.

1138
01:11:45,354 --> 01:11:52,954
And then after a lot of orange pilling attempts, many of which are probably failures, you start to get a little frustrated.

1139
01:11:53,033 --> 01:11:55,693
You get a little bit, you know, a little bit disillusioned.

1140
01:11:56,474 --> 01:12:02,814
And you realize like, OK, you know, I'm trying all these different ways of getting to people and you get to some.

1141
01:12:02,814 --> 01:12:08,673
And hopefully you get to the people you care about most because you lead with love and they realize, look, this person loves me.

1142
01:12:08,733 --> 01:12:09,153
I love them.

1143
01:12:09,233 --> 01:12:10,414
They wouldn't try to lead me astray.

1144
01:12:10,514 --> 01:12:14,093
So if they're saying this, you know, it must be true.

1145
01:12:15,093 --> 01:12:20,333
But for a lot of people, it's like especially, you know, friends or, you know, extended family, whatever it may be, it's harder.

1146
01:12:21,293 --> 01:12:31,474
And then at least Carl and I got to a point where it's like, well, maybe the best way that we can orange pill is just by living a life that we love.

1147
01:12:31,474 --> 01:12:35,693
and that other people would want to have as well.

1148
01:12:36,093 --> 01:12:37,954
And that's the best thing that we can do

1149
01:12:37,954 --> 01:12:41,173
is just truly leading by example, as they would say.

1150
01:12:41,173 --> 01:12:44,753
And I feel like that's kind of what you're doing with this show

1151
01:12:44,753 --> 01:12:47,573
is it's leading by example.

1152
01:12:47,733 --> 01:12:50,454
It's showing, look, yeah, we're going to mention Bitcoin.

1153
01:12:50,573 --> 01:12:51,253
We're going to talk about Bitcoin.

1154
01:12:51,373 --> 01:12:52,173
It's a part of this.

1155
01:12:52,293 --> 01:12:55,554
It's not the central thesis, but it's also what made this possible.

1156
01:12:55,873 --> 01:12:57,314
It's part of this story.

1157
01:12:57,993 --> 01:13:00,414
And if you like where this story is going,

1158
01:13:00,414 --> 01:13:02,914
And maybe it's worth checking out for yourself, too.

1159
01:13:03,593 --> 01:13:03,713
Right.

1160
01:13:04,314 --> 01:13:04,713
Absolutely.

1161
01:13:04,814 --> 01:13:07,233
It's about being the lighthouse, not the tugboat.

1162
01:13:07,713 --> 01:13:14,554
And I think this is a journey a lot of early Bitcoiners go through, which is they get so excited because they've gone down the rabbit hole and they want to help everyone.

1163
01:13:15,333 --> 01:13:17,613
And they try to be that tugboat.

1164
01:13:17,613 --> 01:13:23,414
And at some point you realize, you know what, let me just live my life.

1165
01:13:23,514 --> 01:13:24,613
Let me just be the change.

1166
01:13:24,613 --> 01:13:36,474
And it's sometimes when people, I've been in situations where I've seen at conferences and otherwise, I've seen Bitcoiners argue with, they corner some poor nami at a bar.

1167
01:13:37,233 --> 01:13:41,113
And they're yelling at them saying, hey, man, you got to get into Bitcoin.

1168
01:13:41,414 --> 01:13:43,414
And so there was, in fact, one specific event.

1169
01:13:43,454 --> 01:13:46,613
This was in Warsaw at the Film Fest last year.

1170
01:13:47,633 --> 01:13:51,914
And this Bitcoiner called me because he'd corner this poor guy.

1171
01:13:51,914 --> 01:13:55,373
and just called you as he had cornered this person?

1172
01:13:55,493 --> 01:13:57,833
Like he was on the phone with you mid-corner?

1173
01:13:57,934 --> 01:13:58,333
No, no, no, I was there.

1174
01:13:58,554 --> 01:13:59,293
We were in Warsaw.

1175
01:13:59,993 --> 01:14:01,093
So he just called me over.

1176
01:14:01,173 --> 01:14:01,914
He said, come on in.

1177
01:14:01,993 --> 01:14:02,233
Okay.

1178
01:14:02,414 --> 01:14:03,193
Talk to this guy.

1179
01:14:03,233 --> 01:14:04,354
He's not getting it, man.

1180
01:14:04,914 --> 01:14:06,434
And I looked at the poor guy.

1181
01:14:06,653 --> 01:14:09,033
He looked completely flustered.

1182
01:14:09,033 --> 01:14:12,894
And I said, hey, are you happy with where your life is,

1183
01:14:12,954 --> 01:14:13,573
with your investments?

1184
01:14:14,434 --> 01:14:16,193
And he said, yeah, I think I'm happy.

1185
01:14:16,273 --> 01:14:17,493
And I said, then you don't need Bitcoin.

1186
01:14:18,653 --> 01:14:19,314
You don't.

1187
01:14:19,394 --> 01:14:19,833
You're happy.

1188
01:14:19,934 --> 01:14:20,733
You don't need Bitcoin.

1189
01:14:20,733 --> 01:14:23,033
And then he was like, wait, I don't?

1190
01:14:23,314 --> 01:14:34,554
I said, well, if you're the kind of person who feels that there's something off, maybe, and you want to see why something's off with the world, then maybe you should study Bitcoin.

1191
01:14:34,693 --> 01:14:37,653
But if you say you're happy, then, yeah, you don't need it.

1192
01:14:37,974 --> 01:14:38,854
And the guy was like, wait a second.

1193
01:14:39,773 --> 01:14:40,414
Now tell me more.

1194
01:14:40,414 --> 01:14:49,354
And I think so part of it, we get into this as early Bitcoin, as into this thing of I have to let people know I am the savior.

1195
01:14:49,554 --> 01:14:50,854
I'm going to save my friends.

1196
01:14:51,113 --> 01:14:52,554
And don't be the savior.

1197
01:14:52,733 --> 01:14:54,474
Or at least that's not how you're going to be the savior.

1198
01:14:56,133 --> 01:15:01,354
I mean, it turns out a lot of the cliches in Bitcoin are cliches for a reason.

1199
01:15:01,593 --> 01:15:02,493
They're true.

1200
01:15:02,653 --> 01:15:05,733
It's like everyone gets it at the price we deserve, right?

1201
01:15:05,793 --> 01:15:10,054
Like, I don't know about you, but for me, I ignored Bitcoin multiple times.

1202
01:15:10,054 --> 01:15:14,073
I ignored it in 2014 when somebody brought it up to me.

1203
01:15:14,093 --> 01:15:15,373
And I was like, I don't care about that, man.

1204
01:15:15,434 --> 01:15:17,733
Like back to whatever fiat shit I'm doing.

1205
01:15:18,993 --> 01:15:22,133
Ignored it in 2017 when it started running.

1206
01:15:22,273 --> 01:15:23,993
And I was like, well, I can't afford a full Bitcoin.

1207
01:15:24,193 --> 01:15:25,914
So I guess I'll, I don't know.

1208
01:15:25,954 --> 01:15:28,014
I guess I'll just buy a couple of these Litecoin things.

1209
01:15:28,213 --> 01:15:28,854
Big mistake.

1210
01:15:30,253 --> 01:15:33,653
Still don't think Litecoin has come back to the 2017 peak.

1211
01:15:33,713 --> 01:15:34,273
I could be wrong.

1212
01:15:34,333 --> 01:15:35,773
I don't really look at it anymore.

1213
01:15:36,153 --> 01:15:37,054
But I got rid of those.

1214
01:15:37,653 --> 01:15:38,673
Did it go back?

1215
01:15:38,934 --> 01:15:39,914
No, it did not.

1216
01:15:40,054 --> 01:15:40,613
Oh, it did not?

1217
01:15:41,394 --> 01:15:45,873
It went, and I remember this with Litecoin, it crossed 300 back in 2070.

1218
01:15:46,073 --> 01:15:47,613
And I was shitcoining back then as well.

1219
01:15:47,753 --> 01:15:50,773
That was like right when I, I mean, as toppy of the top as you could have gotten.

1220
01:15:50,873 --> 01:15:55,153
That's when I was like, I'll just buy two Litecoins because that's what I can afford right now.

1221
01:15:55,153 --> 01:16:00,273
The funny thing happened at the absolute tippy top of Litecoin.

1222
01:16:00,573 --> 01:16:02,993
The founder, Charlie Lee, he sold everything.

1223
01:16:03,493 --> 01:16:04,793
He knew somehow.

1224
01:16:04,793 --> 01:16:13,613
Well, probably because he created the tippy top by selling a massive, like just dumping liquidity in the market.

1225
01:16:13,854 --> 01:16:25,073
But yeah, so like, so I have empathy for people because then it wasn't until like COVID started up that I actually started looking into this again and actually taking the time and putting my ego aside and realizing, you know what?

1226
01:16:25,733 --> 01:16:29,514
You actually have no idea how money works and how any of this works.

1227
01:16:29,514 --> 01:16:31,673
And why don't you like, you've got the time now.

1228
01:16:31,793 --> 01:16:33,354
It's weird lockdown shit.

1229
01:16:33,354 --> 01:16:34,833
But like, look into this more.

1230
01:16:35,793 --> 01:16:38,954
But it takes multiple touch points for people.

1231
01:16:39,394 --> 01:16:50,954
And I think finding ways when it comes to artistic creation, content creation, whatever you want to call it, you know, podcasting as well, all these things, they can all represent touch points for people.

1232
01:16:51,373 --> 01:16:53,233
And it's going to take a couple touch points.

1233
01:16:53,233 --> 01:16:56,854
It is very rare that somebody hears about Bitcoin for the first time.

1234
01:16:57,434 --> 01:16:58,333
Okay, got it.

1235
01:16:58,454 --> 01:17:00,073
I'm a full-on Bitcoin max.

1236
01:17:00,173 --> 01:17:02,554
Like, it just doesn't really happen.

1237
01:17:02,554 --> 01:17:06,894
these not these days anymore, you know, maybe back in the day when it was just Bitcoin, but like,

1238
01:17:07,573 --> 01:17:12,454
people go down different roads, right? And so I think creating these different avenues by which

1239
01:17:12,454 --> 01:17:18,093
people can be exposed to Bitcoin in a way that's not just Elizabeth Warren screeching or the New

1240
01:17:18,093 --> 01:17:23,153
York Times writing a dog shit article. I think that's so important, because you never know which

1241
01:17:23,153 --> 01:17:27,474
positive touch point is going to be the one that sends somebody on that journey down the rabbit

1242
01:17:27,474 --> 01:17:31,573
hole. There's no way to know it's gonna be different for every person. But creating more

1243
01:17:31,573 --> 01:17:35,613
opportunities for people to do that and again i think through food and through storytelling is

1244
01:17:35,613 --> 01:17:40,514
such a powerful way to do it because it's just you know it's natural and it's not a it's a it's

1245
01:17:40,514 --> 01:17:46,793
a foot in the door versus a door in the face like it's it's a soft sell yeah yeah or a foot in the

1246
01:17:46,793 --> 01:17:52,974
face yeah yeah there we go uh which you know some people might be into uh you know if derek

1247
01:17:52,974 --> 01:17:59,293
is listening to this um but hashtag footster footster oh man you know i now we're really at

1248
01:17:59,293 --> 01:18:00,514
the point where I can probably just like,

1249
01:18:01,253 --> 01:18:03,814
I can probably just like vibe code a standalone footster app.

1250
01:18:03,993 --> 01:18:04,073
Huh?

1251
01:18:04,213 --> 01:18:04,573
Maybe I,

1252
01:18:04,573 --> 01:18:05,153
maybe I should,

1253
01:18:05,273 --> 01:18:06,474
I should really do that for Derek,

1254
01:18:06,554 --> 01:18:06,934
of course,

1255
01:18:07,474 --> 01:18:08,054
just so he has.

1256
01:18:08,753 --> 01:18:09,113
Yeah.

1257
01:18:09,213 --> 01:18:09,514
Yes.

1258
01:18:10,314 --> 01:18:10,673
Naturally.

1259
01:18:11,193 --> 01:18:12,414
But let's talk about,

1260
01:18:12,533 --> 01:18:12,653
well,

1261
01:18:12,693 --> 01:18:12,993
first of all,

1262
01:18:13,014 --> 01:18:13,454
before I,

1263
01:18:13,454 --> 01:18:14,914
I digressed anything else,

1264
01:18:15,014 --> 01:18:17,693
is there anything else with the film you want to make sure that we,

1265
01:18:17,793 --> 01:18:19,314
we cover or we get into?

1266
01:18:19,394 --> 01:18:20,434
I really want to make sure that like,

1267
01:18:20,493 --> 01:18:22,153
I want to encourage people again,

1268
01:18:22,474 --> 01:18:23,193
go check it out.

1269
01:18:23,233 --> 01:18:26,454
If you haven't 33 minutes or 33 and a half minutes of your time,

1270
01:18:26,493 --> 01:18:28,454
I believe very well worth it.

1271
01:18:28,454 --> 01:18:29,273
You'll enjoy it.

1272
01:18:29,293 --> 01:18:34,914
maybe eat some food and have a drink while you're watching it or just hang out.

1273
01:18:34,914 --> 01:18:38,833
But take a break from your normally scheduled 40 hours per week of Bitcoin podcasts and

1274
01:18:38,833 --> 01:18:40,133
incorporate this into the mix.

1275
01:18:41,573 --> 01:18:44,373
What else do you want people to know about this before we digress?

1276
01:18:44,414 --> 01:18:46,153
Because I want to talk to you about Nostra a little bit more too.

1277
01:18:46,373 --> 01:18:46,693
Yeah, yeah.

1278
01:18:46,854 --> 01:18:49,354
No, I think we covered a lot about the show, right?

1279
01:18:49,394 --> 01:18:55,354
As I said, I guess a call to action is if anyone watches it and likes it and wants to

1280
01:18:55,354 --> 01:18:58,733
help me make more episodes, please reach out.

1281
01:18:58,733 --> 01:19:02,113
Happy to have you as an executive producer if you can help out that way.

1282
01:19:02,934 --> 01:19:05,554
Or help me with the Paraguay episode.

1283
01:19:05,793 --> 01:19:07,253
That's more of an immediate need.

1284
01:19:08,593 --> 01:19:15,354
The link, and Walker, if you include the link for the Angor in the show notes, yeah, you can follow that.

1285
01:19:15,873 --> 01:19:20,113
But yeah, I think we beat it to death, Walker, the show.

1286
01:19:20,833 --> 01:19:21,314
Excellent.

1287
01:19:21,554 --> 01:19:26,434
It's now ready to be filleted and cooked for us now that it is dead.

1288
01:19:26,514 --> 01:19:26,993
There you go.

1289
01:19:26,993 --> 01:19:30,993
Okay, so let's talk about Noster a little bit more.

1290
01:19:31,474 --> 01:19:35,713
You've been very active on Noster since the early days.

1291
01:19:35,894 --> 01:19:38,073
You have Pleb Chain Radio with QW.

1292
01:19:39,014 --> 01:19:43,934
I think the longest-running Noster podcast,

1293
01:19:44,054 --> 01:19:45,173
obviously you guys talk about other stuff too,

1294
01:19:45,233 --> 01:19:46,753
but I'd call it a Noster podcast.

1295
01:19:46,993 --> 01:19:49,314
You guys have been promoting it via Fountain

1296
01:19:49,314 --> 01:19:52,173
and via Noster since the early days.

1297
01:19:52,993 --> 01:19:54,093
You've been deep in this way.

1298
01:19:54,593 --> 01:19:56,733
When did it click for you?

1299
01:19:56,733 --> 01:19:59,293
that this was something akin to Bitcoin,

1300
01:19:59,414 --> 01:20:00,914
that this protocol was something special,

1301
01:20:01,014 --> 01:20:01,514
that this is like,

1302
01:20:01,573 --> 01:20:03,253
this is where you want to focus your time.

1303
01:20:04,514 --> 01:20:08,093
Yeah, so Jack Dorsey posted about this

1304
01:20:08,093 --> 01:20:11,293
on December 14th of 2022.

1305
01:20:12,113 --> 01:20:15,773
I signed up on December 15th of 2022

1306
01:20:15,773 --> 01:20:18,493
and it clicked on December 16th,

1307
01:20:18,493 --> 01:20:19,673
I would say, of 2022.

1308
01:20:20,854 --> 01:20:24,073
It was, and I don't know why,

1309
01:20:24,193 --> 01:20:26,394
it was almost a magical moment

1310
01:20:26,394 --> 01:20:29,993
I mean, you were there too, Walker, right, at that time.

1311
01:20:30,273 --> 01:20:31,493
Only a couple days before, yeah.

1312
01:20:32,113 --> 01:20:32,434
Right.

1313
01:20:33,273 --> 01:20:42,613
All of these people showed up, and it felt like we were part of a magical moment in time.

1314
01:20:43,093 --> 01:20:45,193
And I was captured at that point.

1315
01:20:46,653 --> 01:20:50,474
It was a really incredible vibe at that time.

1316
01:20:50,514 --> 01:20:54,273
I remember Jack, right after he got on, he sent out a note.

1317
01:20:54,273 --> 01:21:09,490
I think I still have the screenshot of it somewhere from that I took on Damas in Damas is very early rougher around the edges version Like it it incredible the pace of development and how much more sleek and incredible these

1318
01:21:09,490 --> 01:21:10,190
apps are now.

1319
01:21:10,650 --> 01:21:18,750
But Jack basically posted that this is exactly what pre 5000 user Twitter felt like, but

1320
01:21:18,750 --> 01:21:19,110
better.

1321
01:21:19,330 --> 01:21:19,430
Right.

1322
01:21:20,030 --> 01:21:23,210
And I thought like, what a statement.

1323
01:21:23,210 --> 01:21:29,870
like what a statement for a guy that built arguably the most impactful social network

1324
01:21:29,870 --> 01:21:38,390
of all time to say about this open protocol what a what a wild wild thing to say right

1325
01:21:38,390 --> 01:21:45,270
and what's interesting to me too i don't i don't know i've seen seen some stuff recently about

1326
01:21:45,270 --> 01:21:49,610
adoption metrics and whatnot that a lot of it is kind of you know like plateaued and i'm i'm

1327
01:21:49,610 --> 01:21:55,110
personally not, I don't know about you. I'm not too worried about that. I'm like, to me, it's just,

1328
01:21:55,430 --> 01:22:02,350
it's like, yeah, okay. You know, you all get most are at the level of censorship and algorithmic

1329
01:22:02,350 --> 01:22:07,030
destruction that you deserve. Like, I don't know, but where, where do you think we're at? What do

1330
01:22:07,030 --> 01:22:11,750
you think brings in perhaps a better question? What do you think brings in the next waves of

1331
01:22:11,750 --> 01:22:17,710
people? Is it a pull because of the incredible stuff that's being built, which is inarguable?

1332
01:22:18,470 --> 01:22:20,590
Is it a pull because people want that?

1333
01:22:21,090 --> 01:22:27,330
Or is it a push because they're, you know, are they running towards Nostra or are they running away from these centralized systems?

1334
01:22:28,070 --> 01:22:30,410
I think we'll see a little bit of the running away.

1335
01:22:31,070 --> 01:22:35,410
You know, we saw that when Brazil banned X.

1336
01:22:35,650 --> 01:22:38,410
I can't even remember when this was, but six months, a year ago.

1337
01:22:39,130 --> 01:22:41,010
Every now and then you see TikTok ban.

1338
01:22:41,750 --> 01:22:44,110
Yeah, there was a TikTok ban and some people fled.

1339
01:22:44,110 --> 01:22:53,230
I don't think that's a particularly sticky wave of adopters because they're there because it's almost like a last resort for them.

1340
01:22:53,670 --> 01:22:55,970
And they don't fully get the culture, not all of them anyway.

1341
01:22:56,210 --> 01:23:02,110
Some of them do stay, but for the most part, the running away crowd, you don't always get the sticky adoption.

1342
01:23:02,270 --> 01:23:12,910
I think the one way you will get sticky adoption is people who, you know, it's like the meme of the cat that's looking over the wall and saying, what are they doing over there, right?

1343
01:23:12,910 --> 01:23:17,310
And it's like, wait a second, there's all of this incredible content.

1344
01:23:18,030 --> 01:23:19,270
Let me go and see what's happening.

1345
01:23:19,350 --> 01:23:21,810
So I think that's one way, more on the cultural side, right?

1346
01:23:22,070 --> 01:23:23,210
We're not quite there yet.

1347
01:23:23,330 --> 01:23:24,150
There's some of it.

1348
01:23:24,790 --> 01:23:27,750
By the way, Nostra is the most fun place on the internet.

1349
01:23:28,290 --> 01:23:35,850
Part of the magic of that moment in mid-December of 22 was, at least for me, I had stopped having fun on the internet.

1350
01:23:37,710 --> 01:23:41,870
Yes, maybe Twitter, you could dunk on people, but it was mean.

1351
01:23:41,870 --> 01:23:44,850
Nostra was like this innocent fun

1352
01:23:44,850 --> 01:23:47,070
especially for those first four or five months

1353
01:23:47,070 --> 01:23:48,090
so

1354
01:23:48,090 --> 01:23:50,550
I think that will be another allure

1355
01:23:50,550 --> 01:23:52,390
as people become more aware of it

1356
01:23:52,390 --> 01:23:53,670
which is Nostra is still

1357
01:23:53,670 --> 01:23:55,770
the most fun place on the internet

1358
01:23:55,770 --> 01:23:58,690
so on the

1359
01:23:58,690 --> 01:24:00,310
you know you'll get more content

1360
01:24:00,310 --> 01:24:02,570
because of that and you get

1361
01:24:02,570 --> 01:24:04,350
the flywheel going. People realize it's fun

1362
01:24:04,350 --> 01:24:05,950
they come in, they start making their content

1363
01:24:05,950 --> 01:24:08,130
they get zapped for it, their fans come in

1364
01:24:08,130 --> 01:24:10,090
and so on and so forth and then you'll have

1365
01:24:10,090 --> 01:24:15,110
these reputation scores and webs of trust as they get built out,

1366
01:24:15,190 --> 01:24:16,730
so you get more authentic content.

1367
01:24:16,870 --> 01:24:18,410
Again, the AI slop, right?

1368
01:24:18,830 --> 01:24:22,770
Maybe Nostra becomes the place where the humanness comes,

1369
01:24:23,670 --> 01:24:27,070
like we discussed earlier, through the cryptographic signatures

1370
01:24:27,070 --> 01:24:28,830
and through the authenticity.

1371
01:24:29,870 --> 01:24:30,710
So people come for that.

1372
01:24:30,790 --> 01:24:31,770
So that's on the one side.

1373
01:24:32,150 --> 01:24:35,130
The other side is a slightly more boring reason,

1374
01:24:35,930 --> 01:24:39,710
but Nostra can act as a data coordination layer.

1375
01:24:39,710 --> 01:24:43,870
for a lot of B2B type use cases as well, right?

1376
01:24:44,930 --> 01:24:49,470
Any industry in which it suffers from siloed data,

1377
01:24:50,050 --> 01:24:54,190
lack of interoperability, errors, human intervention,

1378
01:24:55,190 --> 01:24:57,170
yeah, exactly, reconciliation, human intervention,

1379
01:24:57,870 --> 01:25:02,310
NOSTA fixes all of that through just the way data interoperates.

1380
01:25:02,710 --> 01:25:03,490
It's extensible.

1381
01:25:03,670 --> 01:25:05,490
You can build new event kinds.

1382
01:25:05,630 --> 01:25:07,310
You can build clients that support those kinds.

1383
01:25:07,310 --> 01:25:08,170
It's permissionless.

1384
01:25:08,170 --> 01:25:15,390
You don't actually have to get your, if you propose a new NIP for a new event kind, you don't need to include that in the main repo.

1385
01:25:15,530 --> 01:25:21,850
Yes, it's nice, but you could just write a NIP, make a new kind, build a client that supports that and get people to use it.

1386
01:25:22,010 --> 01:25:22,570
It's amazing.

1387
01:25:23,330 --> 01:25:28,750
And with AI-assisted tools and Vibe coding, it's getting easier and easier.

1388
01:25:28,850 --> 01:25:33,810
So I think we'll see some of that, potentially some of that boring business adoption as well.

1389
01:25:33,950 --> 01:25:37,450
That just, people just come to Nostro without even knowing it, right?

1390
01:25:37,450 --> 01:25:42,610
Maybe it becomes the identity substrate of the internet.

1391
01:25:42,850 --> 01:25:48,190
People realize that the usernames and passwords are irrevocably broken.

1392
01:25:48,770 --> 01:25:50,770
So let's just move to keepers for that.

1393
01:25:51,010 --> 01:25:56,250
So I think there's the fun way, which is through the arts and culture and content.

1394
01:25:56,450 --> 01:25:57,690
And then there's the boring way.

1395
01:25:57,810 --> 01:26:00,870
And I think we will see that playing out over the next two, three years.

1396
01:26:01,830 --> 01:26:03,630
Have you been vibe coding yourself?

1397
01:26:04,730 --> 01:26:05,910
I have, yes.

1398
01:26:05,910 --> 01:26:07,910
What are you vibe coding?

1399
01:26:08,790 --> 01:26:12,910
So I worked in health tech for the longest time.

1400
01:26:13,050 --> 01:26:26,270
I used to run an, before I quit my fair job, I ran an AI team at a large health tech company, kind of pretty close to the health insurance world.

1401
01:26:26,830 --> 01:26:35,210
And I just saw from the inside how irrevocably broken that system is, irreparably broken, the incentive structures and whatnot.

1402
01:26:35,210 --> 01:26:40,850
not. And there is a bit, especially in the US, there is a better way, right? We can have direct

1403
01:26:40,850 --> 01:26:47,250
doctor to patient relationships, if you can get insurance out of the picture, right? Because that

1404
01:26:47,250 --> 01:26:51,450
just messes up the incentive structure, that brings in price transparency and all of that.

1405
01:26:51,450 --> 01:26:59,410
So I've been playing around with a few prototypes that connect patients to healthcare providers.

1406
01:26:59,610 --> 01:27:04,430
In fact, I actually launched a company or project, let's just call it, last year with

1407
01:27:04,430 --> 01:27:06,310
Vitor Pamplona and John Gordon.

1408
01:27:06,630 --> 01:27:08,390
It's called Nosfabrica, which is,

1409
01:27:08,570 --> 01:27:10,230
and we all have a healthcare background.

1410
01:27:11,450 --> 01:27:12,650
It's to see

1411
01:27:12,650 --> 01:27:14,690
how NOS to fix a lot of the healthcare

1412
01:27:14,690 --> 01:27:17,110
use cases, data interoperability

1413
01:27:17,110 --> 01:27:18,770
and so on. So yeah, I've been

1414
01:27:18,770 --> 01:27:20,690
Vibe coding some of that. I think

1415
01:27:20,690 --> 01:27:22,710
the risk there is because

1416
01:27:22,710 --> 01:27:24,650
we're talking health data. By the way,

1417
01:27:24,670 --> 01:27:26,550
this is a big risk with Vibe coding in general.

1418
01:27:26,670 --> 01:27:27,970
People are getting excited saying, hey,

1419
01:27:28,070 --> 01:27:30,570
everyone's a dev now, I just have to speak to AI.

1420
01:27:31,190 --> 01:27:32,530
If you're dealing with financial data,

1421
01:27:32,530 --> 01:27:37,730
If you're dealing with protected personal data, please do not send that into production.

1422
01:27:38,750 --> 01:27:42,970
Unless you know exactly what you're doing, do not do that.

1423
01:27:43,370 --> 01:27:44,550
That's highly irresponsible.

1424
01:27:45,710 --> 01:27:49,230
Yeah, maybe have an actual dev audit your code.

1425
01:27:49,690 --> 01:27:49,950
Yes.

1426
01:27:50,370 --> 01:27:54,790
Maybe do it a few times or, yeah, you're going to cause some problems.

1427
01:27:55,350 --> 01:27:55,510
Right.

1428
01:27:56,190 --> 01:28:02,030
I think it's super interesting, though, and it is to your point from the beginning of this conversation.

1429
01:28:02,530 --> 01:28:24,950
It's this opportunity for maybe non-technical people who have had an idea in their head but don't have the budget or don't have the time or both to be able to actually bring this to fruition, to be able to go from idea to product or idea to something actually tangible in the cyberspace fashion relatively quickly.

1430
01:28:26,110 --> 01:28:29,670
And I think we're going to just – again, we're at the early stages of this.

1431
01:28:29,670 --> 01:28:38,530
I think that's what's so exciting to me is that as incredible as these tools are right now, we're still early.

1432
01:28:38,710 --> 01:28:40,110
But we really are still early.

1433
01:28:40,710 --> 01:28:46,610
And I think to your point, you brought up earlier kind of this intersection of Bitcoin, AI, and Noster.

1434
01:28:46,610 --> 01:29:04,470
And I want to tease at that a little bit because something that I've heard a number of people talk about is this idea that one of the big problems when it comes to paying for compute is that if you're paying for compute with credit, credit that can be pulled away.

1435
01:29:04,550 --> 01:29:06,930
And I mean like literal monetary credit.

1436
01:29:07,030 --> 01:29:08,770
I'm not talking like you prepay for some tokens.

1437
01:29:08,870 --> 01:29:10,970
I'm talking you've got a credit card hooked up.

1438
01:29:11,370 --> 01:29:13,270
It's buying like that credit card can be canceled.

1439
01:29:13,270 --> 01:29:16,350
That money can be clawed back up to what, 60 days?

1440
01:29:16,610 --> 01:29:25,730
later, that doesn't make any sense in a system where you are paying for actual compute power.

1441
01:29:25,890 --> 01:29:31,030
You are paying for electricity. You are paying for the hosting. What you are paying for is real

1442
01:29:31,030 --> 01:29:35,710
and physical. The credit money that you are paying with, the fiat cock bucks you're paying with,

1443
01:29:36,570 --> 01:29:40,110
those are ephemeral. Those can be clawed right back at anyone's discretion.

1444
01:29:41,070 --> 01:29:45,030
So it was that kind of what you were getting at earlier was this idea that like, look,

1445
01:29:45,030 --> 01:29:50,470
this is going to be the obvious way that you should pay for compute,

1446
01:29:50,610 --> 01:29:53,350
that AI agents will also interact with each other,

1447
01:29:53,470 --> 01:29:54,850
because again, same problem,

1448
01:29:55,010 --> 01:29:58,150
and they're going to be quicker at figuring out the solution than we humans are.

1449
01:29:58,710 --> 01:30:01,250
I think that's fascinating where that's going to go

1450
01:30:01,250 --> 01:30:04,290
and just how that accelerates also Bitcoin adoption

1451
01:30:04,290 --> 01:30:08,130
in probably a way that most people don't see coming yet.

1452
01:30:09,150 --> 01:30:09,690
Yeah, absolutely.

1453
01:30:09,690 --> 01:30:13,730
And I think as we move into a more and more agentic world,

1454
01:30:13,730 --> 01:30:21,430
There will be a human in the loop, I think, at some level for the next few years, but it's going to become lighter and lighter touch.

1455
01:30:22,310 --> 01:30:25,710
You'll have AI agents essentially talking to each other and transacting with each other.

1456
01:30:26,050 --> 01:30:33,410
And if they're allowed to do their thing, they will pick the best money.

1457
01:30:33,690 --> 01:30:35,790
They will not pick fiat.

1458
01:30:35,970 --> 01:30:37,630
They will pick Bitcoin, which is the best money.

1459
01:30:37,630 --> 01:30:41,510
And then tying this back to Jeff Booth's thesis, right?

1460
01:30:41,510 --> 01:30:48,910
But as technological progress happens, and we're in an incredible period of acceleration,

1461
01:30:49,070 --> 01:30:52,730
I think the likes of which we have not witnessed in recent history,

1462
01:30:53,150 --> 01:30:55,830
with how much productivity AI is going to bring.

1463
01:30:56,050 --> 01:30:56,770
I mean, just think about it.

1464
01:30:56,850 --> 01:31:02,850
One person in one week can do now what 10 people would take two months to do.

1465
01:31:03,170 --> 01:31:04,050
It's remarkable.

1466
01:31:04,790 --> 01:31:08,730
Prices have to come down, but they're not going to come down, right?

1467
01:31:08,730 --> 01:31:13,870
Because they're going to print just at least to keep that magical 2% number.

1468
01:31:14,470 --> 01:31:25,490
So the US dollar is going to become toilet paper because productivity is going to go up 10x, which means prices should at least proportionally come down and they're not going to come down.

1469
01:31:25,770 --> 01:31:27,810
And this is how Bitcoin wins.

1470
01:31:27,810 --> 01:31:30,810
This is it's going to be, you know, we start with Gresham's law.

1471
01:31:31,290 --> 01:31:39,330
Right. I mean, it's not really a law, but it's a heuristic, which is, you know, the people hoard the good money and they want to spend the bad money.

1472
01:31:39,330 --> 01:31:56,770
But at some point, the bad money is going to become so bad that Thier's law, again, not a law, it's a heuristic, will come in where in an unbridled scenario where the government isn't mandating legal tender, the good money is what's going to drive out the bad money.

1473
01:31:56,770 --> 01:32:01,930
And so I think Thierry's law will kick in and AI is going to be the catalyst that does that.

1474
01:32:02,810 --> 01:32:18,310
It's actually super interesting about like the government is, in my opinion, unknowingly subverting their own legal tender laws by not enforcing businesses requirement to accept cash for payments.

1475
01:32:18,310 --> 01:32:24,350
there are i'm sure we've everyone listening has been to at least one business either in the u.s or

1476
01:32:24,350 --> 01:32:30,850
abroad where cat that's like no no cash just just card uh like that because you know people don't

1477
01:32:30,850 --> 01:32:34,550
want to deal with cash usually it's a maybe a security issue there's the other side of that

1478
01:32:34,550 --> 01:32:39,190
where certain businesses are like typically like maybe smaller mom and pop shops are like no uh

1479
01:32:39,190 --> 01:32:44,770
actually only only cash or you get a cash discount because we're going to pay you know six percent

1480
01:32:44,770 --> 01:32:47,270
across the fee spread if you pay with credit.

1481
01:32:47,650 --> 01:32:49,230
And you might claw it back later

1482
01:32:49,230 --> 01:32:51,490
because you claimed your card was stolen or whatever else.

1483
01:32:52,230 --> 01:32:54,030
But it's super interesting to see that happen.

1484
01:32:55,470 --> 01:32:55,830
I don't know.

1485
01:32:55,910 --> 01:32:59,930
Cash may be trash from a store of value perspective,

1486
01:33:00,390 --> 01:33:03,650
but damn, it's good from an anonymous medium of exchange perspective.

1487
01:33:04,170 --> 01:33:05,350
It is still excellent.

1488
01:33:05,350 --> 01:33:11,050
And I think that we know that governments are going to try to get rid of it.

1489
01:33:11,370 --> 01:33:12,290
They're already starting.

1490
01:33:12,290 --> 01:33:16,610
I think Europe is going to accelerate in that regard.

1491
01:33:17,050 --> 01:33:18,770
Like they've already gotten rid of,

1492
01:33:18,790 --> 01:33:20,730
they got rid of the 500 euro bill, what,

1493
01:33:20,930 --> 01:33:23,130
like was that two years ago, three years ago,

1494
01:33:23,190 --> 01:33:23,850
something like that?

1495
01:33:24,370 --> 01:33:27,310
They're like, no, this is used for illicit finance too much.

1496
01:33:28,450 --> 01:33:29,350
So they get rid of that.

1497
01:33:29,430 --> 01:33:30,970
Only we're allowed to do illicit finance.

1498
01:33:31,190 --> 01:33:34,790
Yeah, only Christine Lagarde is allowed to be a convicted felon

1499
01:33:34,790 --> 01:33:36,050
and print money.

1500
01:33:36,410 --> 01:33:38,330
The rest of you, no, no, no, not allowed.

1501
01:33:38,330 --> 01:33:44,630
god what a what a what a joke this system is sometimes you have to like you have to take a

1502
01:33:44,630 --> 01:33:51,890
step back and just be like dear lord like our our world is literally just run by a bunch of criminals

1503
01:33:51,890 --> 01:33:57,350
even when they get in trouble don't actually get in trouble because they're the ones who make the

1504
01:33:57,350 --> 01:34:03,930
rules and they're the ones who print the money like by the way here too right i mean trump is

1505
01:34:03,930 --> 01:34:06,410
clearly front-running the strategic reserve.

1506
01:34:06,930 --> 01:34:08,970
His family is buying up Bitcoin.

1507
01:34:09,330 --> 01:34:10,290
I mean, good for us, right?

1508
01:34:10,370 --> 01:34:12,290
But still, we should call it out.

1509
01:34:13,290 --> 01:34:15,790
This is not ethical behavior.

1510
01:34:16,370 --> 01:34:17,630
His family is front-running it,

1511
01:34:17,650 --> 01:34:18,510
and then he's going to announce

1512
01:34:18,510 --> 01:34:21,010
a strategic reserve buy of a million Bitcoin,

1513
01:34:21,290 --> 01:34:24,530
and suddenly his family become trillionaires as a result.

1514
01:34:24,530 --> 01:34:30,290
I wonder how Trumpcoin will perform during that time.

1515
01:34:30,550 --> 01:34:31,530
Because it's not...

1516
01:34:32,210 --> 01:34:33,370
Melaniacoin, too.

1517
01:34:33,370 --> 01:34:38,030
Maybe there'll be a barren coin by that point who can say it's all so absurd.

1518
01:34:38,370 --> 01:34:39,470
That's the thing.

1519
01:34:39,570 --> 01:34:44,910
And I think it was only natural that politicians, that corporations would try it.

1520
01:34:44,950 --> 01:34:47,930
Well, politicians are kind of glomming on to this, right?

1521
01:34:47,970 --> 01:34:50,710
And as they should, it's in their best interest to do so.

1522
01:34:50,790 --> 01:34:54,050
This is what the game theory was always suggesting would happen.

1523
01:34:55,110 --> 01:34:56,770
Corporations are doing it out of self-preservation.

1524
01:34:56,770 --> 01:35:23,890
And also they're realizing, oh, wow, I can, I can, like my stock will get a lot more attention than it ever has if I announce a little Bitcoin treasury strategy, a little, if I participate in a little paper Bitcoin summer, you know, but, but wow, it's like there is no substitute for just good old fashioned Bitcoin held in cold storage because they, it's, you know, it's hard money they can't fuck with no matter what other shenanigans they try.

1525
01:35:23,890 --> 01:35:42,690
I, and you know, you mentioned paper, Becker, and so on. It's fun. It's a great meme. It's fun to have a laugh about it. But I fear there's a rug or some kind of crash coming, maybe not for the established ones. I think microstrategy is probably going to be okay.

1526
01:35:42,690 --> 01:35:48,710
But some of these copycats, the newer ones, I hope they know what they're doing.

1527
01:35:49,370 --> 01:35:56,730
Because, I mean, if a couple of the small ones go down, they could take the medium-sized ones back with them.

1528
01:35:56,870 --> 01:36:00,290
And before you know it, you have a bit of a snowball happening.

1529
01:36:01,950 --> 01:36:02,390
Contagion.

1530
01:36:02,770 --> 01:36:05,230
So I'm hoping that doesn't play out.

1531
01:36:05,330 --> 01:36:07,470
But, man, it's a bit scary to see.

1532
01:36:09,550 --> 01:36:12,210
Here's the other thing that bothers me a little bit here, Walker.

1533
01:36:12,210 --> 01:36:14,450
with paper Bitcoin and Bitcoin treasuries,

1534
01:36:15,290 --> 01:36:18,890
it's almost as if it's given some Bitcoin maxis,

1535
01:36:19,430 --> 01:36:20,810
and certainly some Bitcoiners,

1536
01:36:21,790 --> 01:36:24,590
the excuse to shitcoin, right?

1537
01:36:24,590 --> 01:36:30,030
To get their shitcoin desires out without repercussion.

1538
01:36:30,150 --> 01:36:31,990
Because, hey, it's just Bitcoin, man.

1539
01:36:31,990 --> 01:36:32,790
What are you talking about?

1540
01:36:33,030 --> 01:36:34,890
I'm not touching Ethereum or Solana.

1541
01:36:35,450 --> 01:36:36,330
This is all Bitcoin.

1542
01:36:37,210 --> 01:36:38,130
And I don't know, man.

1543
01:36:38,290 --> 01:36:40,150
It's a little concerning.

1544
01:36:40,150 --> 01:36:46,790
yeah i mean i i feel that i'm i'm uh it's going to be hilarious to see what happens to these uh

1545
01:36:46,790 --> 01:36:52,710
ethereum treasury companies that have come out like dear lord what a i mean hilarious to do that

1546
01:36:52,710 --> 01:36:59,670
to try to institutionalize more uh more custody of a proof of stake system like i don't think

1547
01:36:59,670 --> 01:37:04,250
like and i'm sure the ethereum foundation is giving some sweetheart deals here to folks like

1548
01:37:04,250 --> 01:37:09,490
uh tom lee from funstrat right who just came out with that like i'm sure there's some backroom

1549
01:37:09,490 --> 01:37:13,890
things happening because it's a centrally controlled company already like but it's i

1550
01:37:13,890 --> 01:37:17,790
don't think they really thought through the game theory of that too much like what what that means

1551
01:37:17,790 --> 01:37:21,790
in a proof of stake network but whatever it's gonna be fun to watch it light on fire and burn down

1552
01:37:21,790 --> 01:37:28,570
but on the bitcoin side i i definitely hear that and like you know this is why like i try to uh i

1553
01:37:28,570 --> 01:37:31,790
first of all let me preface this by saying i think people should do whatever the fuck they want with

1554
01:37:31,790 --> 01:37:37,510
their money uh personally though i would never ever recommend that if somebody is like a friend

1555
01:37:37,510 --> 01:37:38,550
or a family member, a loved one,

1556
01:37:38,590 --> 01:37:39,850
or a random pleb on the street

1557
01:37:39,850 --> 01:37:41,690
is asking or pleb at a Bitcoin conference.

1558
01:37:41,850 --> 01:37:43,710
I don't meet Bitcoin plebs in the street usually.

1559
01:37:44,450 --> 01:37:45,310
They're asking me like,

1560
01:37:45,450 --> 01:37:46,030
oh, which like,

1561
01:37:46,350 --> 01:37:47,470
no, I'm never going to recommend

1562
01:37:47,470 --> 01:37:49,890
a Bitcoin treasury company that they do that

1563
01:37:49,890 --> 01:37:52,010
because they should just hold,

1564
01:37:52,510 --> 01:37:53,490
they should buy and hold

1565
01:37:53,490 --> 01:37:56,050
good old fashioned layer one Bitcoin

1566
01:37:56,050 --> 01:37:57,590
in self-custody.

1567
01:37:58,390 --> 01:37:59,770
Because you like,

1568
01:38:00,670 --> 01:38:03,210
you know, you are introducing counterparty risk.

1569
01:38:03,730 --> 01:38:05,150
Like know that you are gambling

1570
01:38:05,150 --> 01:38:06,950
if you are pursuing,

1571
01:38:06,950 --> 01:38:08,070
And again, do whatever you want.

1572
01:38:08,650 --> 01:38:10,230
I have some micro strategy.

1573
01:38:10,390 --> 01:38:12,070
I have a few shares of some of these other ones.

1574
01:38:12,730 --> 01:38:14,130
But what do I save in?

1575
01:38:14,210 --> 01:38:15,050
I save in Bitcoin.

1576
01:38:16,110 --> 01:38:21,010
And that's what everyone who needs to should do it.

1577
01:38:21,250 --> 01:38:22,930
And everyone will need to eventually.

1578
01:38:23,090 --> 01:38:26,350
It's just a matter of time if they don't realize it yet.

1579
01:38:26,350 --> 01:38:31,110
But yeah, get real Bitcoin, hold it in cold storage, and go create value.

1580
01:38:32,110 --> 01:38:32,590
Right.

1581
01:38:32,950 --> 01:38:35,850
Because if you're in Bitcoin because you claim you're under standard,

1582
01:38:35,850 --> 01:38:38,330
than anything other than what you just said, Walker,

1583
01:38:38,710 --> 01:38:39,550
defeats the purpose.

1584
01:38:39,990 --> 01:38:43,550
You have this pristine digital bearer instrument

1585
01:38:43,550 --> 01:38:44,870
with zero counterparty risk.

1586
01:38:45,210 --> 01:38:47,230
And you're like, you know what would go well?

1587
01:38:47,530 --> 01:38:48,710
Some counterparty risk.

1588
01:38:49,010 --> 01:38:49,250
No.

1589
01:38:50,930 --> 01:38:53,930
A little spice, a little bit of spice on there.

1590
01:38:54,650 --> 01:38:56,290
Well, you know, and it's like, again,

1591
01:38:56,370 --> 01:39:00,170
I think that like these things were bound to happen.

1592
01:39:00,170 --> 01:39:03,810
Like governments realizing that Bitcoin is valuable.

1593
01:39:03,810 --> 01:39:06,270
Like this is a symptom of Bitcoin being successful.

1594
01:39:07,150 --> 01:39:11,830
If Bitcoin was going to, like Bitcoin is winning, this was going to happen.

1595
01:39:12,030 --> 01:39:22,110
If Bitcoin was losing and Bitcoin was fading into obsolescence, we wouldn't be having this conversation because companies and nation states wouldn't be trying to acquire it as fast as they can.

1596
01:39:22,710 --> 01:39:24,350
So this is like what winning looks like.

1597
01:39:24,370 --> 01:39:24,930
And that's great.

1598
01:39:25,590 --> 01:39:30,590
And I think that honestly, like paper Bitcoin summer is good for Bitcoin.

1599
01:39:30,590 --> 01:39:32,030
to ultimately this is like,

1600
01:39:32,550 --> 01:39:34,230
this is all accretive to Bitcoin.

1601
01:39:34,370 --> 01:39:35,770
This is bringing more value into Bitcoin

1602
01:39:35,770 --> 01:39:36,870
that honestly, frankly,

1603
01:39:36,970 --> 01:39:37,850
probably would have flown into,

1604
01:39:37,970 --> 01:39:39,110
uh, flowed into shit coins.

1605
01:39:39,190 --> 01:39:41,190
It's also bringing in new capital

1606
01:39:41,190 --> 01:39:42,870
that has previously not been able

1607
01:39:42,870 --> 01:39:44,930
to have a way to get exposure to Bitcoin

1608
01:39:44,930 --> 01:39:46,430
for whatever reason that may be,

1609
01:39:46,530 --> 01:39:48,150
whatever institutional capital it is,

1610
01:39:48,490 --> 01:39:50,010
whether that be in, uh, you know,

1611
01:39:51,090 --> 01:39:52,370
whether that be in retirement accounts,

1612
01:39:52,490 --> 01:39:53,110
sovereign wealth funds,

1613
01:39:53,170 --> 01:39:54,490
whatever it may be, fixed income.

1614
01:39:54,490 --> 01:39:57,490
Like there are all these different pools of capital

1615
01:39:57,490 --> 01:40:00,170
that are looking for ways to get, uh, exposure.

1616
01:40:00,590 --> 01:40:13,010
And people in a realm, we don't really live in a free market, but in a kind of free market are providing that to them through, you know, paper Bitcoin, which is like, hey, ultimately, it's good for Bitcoin.

1617
01:40:13,010 --> 01:40:16,030
But also a lot of people are going to get wrecked along the way.

1618
01:40:16,130 --> 01:40:21,810
And that's why, like, if you're just a pleb who is what you should follow Adele's advice, you should stay humble and stack sats.

1619
01:40:21,810 --> 01:40:25,150
It is some of the most sage advice you could ever have.

1620
01:40:25,330 --> 01:40:27,970
And it will forever hold true.

1621
01:40:27,970 --> 01:40:31,010
Like, that is the best way to do it.

1622
01:40:31,330 --> 01:40:40,050
Chasing get rich quick, well, chasing anything that's not just Bitcoin has a lot more potential for you to get hurt.

1623
01:40:40,390 --> 01:40:41,510
So do what you want with your money.

1624
01:40:41,610 --> 01:40:41,990
I don't care.

1625
01:40:42,070 --> 01:40:44,530
Neither does Bitcoin, but stay humble and stack sats.

1626
01:40:44,730 --> 01:40:47,550
And thank you, Odell, for creating such a great little heuristic.

1627
01:40:48,950 --> 01:40:49,490
Yes, for sure.

1628
01:40:49,770 --> 01:40:55,290
And I would add, spend it on things you need at merchants that accept Bitcoin.

1629
01:40:56,190 --> 01:41:10,130
I think that's – I know it's not as pithy as Stay Humble's tax ads, but I think spending Bitcoin, the medium of exchange use case is – I think that's what is the killer app for Bitcoin.

1630
01:41:10,330 --> 01:41:11,350
That's what makes it money.

1631
01:41:11,350 --> 01:41:12,610
Yes, store of value is great.

1632
01:41:14,690 --> 01:41:19,990
Supporting local merchants, trying to get them to accept Bitcoin, right?

1633
01:41:19,990 --> 01:41:27,730
Because part of it is you get into this chicken and egg, if you're talking about Bitcoin adoption, is you ask a merchant why aren't you accepting Bitcoin?

1634
01:41:28,230 --> 01:41:29,530
And they say, well, no one's paying in Bitcoin.

1635
01:41:29,730 --> 01:41:33,250
And you ask a person why they're not spending their Bitcoin, and he goes, no one accepts Bitcoin.

1636
01:41:34,630 --> 01:41:39,410
And I think the way out of that is to orange pill merchants and get them to accept Bitcoin.

1637
01:41:39,410 --> 01:41:40,850
So, yeah.

1638
01:41:41,490 --> 01:41:50,090
That was one of the parts I loved about the episode was that he was saying, I think it was like 3% of sales are in Bitcoin.

1639
01:41:50,290 --> 01:41:53,770
And that Bitcoin he just takes and keeps as an asset.

1640
01:41:53,830 --> 01:41:55,390
He doesn't convert that to fiat.

1641
01:41:55,530 --> 01:41:56,510
He just keeps it.

1642
01:41:56,830 --> 01:41:59,930
He literally said, this is how I'm saving for my business.

1643
01:42:00,030 --> 01:42:01,410
I was like, that is amazing.

1644
01:42:02,470 --> 01:42:05,010
I was like, my favorite part was just hearing him talk about it.

1645
01:42:05,010 --> 01:42:06,210
Seeing all the great food was nice and all.

1646
01:42:06,210 --> 01:42:14,530
But as a Bitcoiner, of course, hearing that part was like, wow, he gets it and he's really using it in an intelligent way.

1647
01:42:14,690 --> 01:42:19,810
And that, yeah, it's going to be a nice nest egg for his business as we go forward in the future.

1648
01:42:20,570 --> 01:42:20,650
Yeah.

1649
01:42:20,830 --> 01:42:25,330
I mean, if there's another shot, look, potentially New York City is going to have a communist mayor.

1650
01:42:25,710 --> 01:42:26,430
Hopefully not.

1651
01:42:26,610 --> 01:42:27,490
But there is a chance.

1652
01:42:28,950 --> 01:42:34,430
And if he starts bringing in price controls and so on, I mean, a lot of businesses will be out.

1653
01:42:34,430 --> 01:42:39,070
and maybe Shaqib, the proprietor of Safari in the episode,

1654
01:42:39,870 --> 01:42:40,990
with his little nest egg,

1655
01:42:41,150 --> 01:42:43,170
maybe he's one of the few who might survive.

1656
01:42:44,890 --> 01:42:46,050
Let's hope so.

1657
01:42:46,190 --> 01:42:49,390
And yeah, we'll see about New York's communist future,

1658
01:42:49,510 --> 01:42:51,930
but man, what a time to be alive.

1659
01:42:52,110 --> 01:42:54,570
The only good thing about that is that afterwards,

1660
01:42:54,870 --> 01:42:56,930
after there's an insane amount of capital flight

1661
01:42:56,930 --> 01:42:59,670
and destruction of the city's economics,

1662
01:43:00,370 --> 01:43:03,470
maybe we'll snap back real hard in the other direction.

1663
01:43:03,470 --> 01:43:05,450
The pendulum always swings back.

1664
01:43:05,570 --> 01:43:10,250
It just depends how much pain you have to get on one side of that swing before you're willing to swing it on back.

1665
01:43:11,130 --> 01:43:13,270
And New York City has always gone through these cycles.

1666
01:43:13,790 --> 01:43:20,670
And my hope had been that COVID was the bottom of the cycle, like 2020, 2021.

1667
01:43:21,090 --> 01:43:26,030
The crime was through the roof and, you know, businesses were shutting.

1668
01:43:26,690 --> 01:43:27,470
It's terrible.

1669
01:43:27,750 --> 01:43:29,030
And I thought maybe that's it.

1670
01:43:29,270 --> 01:43:31,590
Maybe this is the bounce back.

1671
01:43:31,590 --> 01:43:39,150
Like this is, you know, the city goes so far down south that people just leave.

1672
01:43:39,330 --> 01:43:40,210
So prices drop.

1673
01:43:40,670 --> 01:43:42,090
And then what happens then?

1674
01:43:42,190 --> 01:43:46,490
The starving artists can actually move back in because it becomes affordable.

1675
01:43:46,910 --> 01:43:48,910
They come in, start making really cool art.

1676
01:43:49,090 --> 01:43:51,450
Then the yuppies look at the art and like, hey, look at this.

1677
01:43:51,450 --> 01:43:52,810
There's culture in this place.

1678
01:43:53,070 --> 01:43:54,510
They come in and then they ruin it.

1679
01:43:55,190 --> 01:43:58,550
There's a hard times create weak man meme in there somewhere.

1680
01:43:59,450 --> 01:44:00,670
That cycle there.

1681
01:44:00,670 --> 01:44:08,750
But apparently, I hope I'm wrong, maybe 2020, 2021 was not the bottom for New York.

1682
01:44:08,870 --> 01:44:15,950
We might get this communist with price controls and convert it into a true hellscape before it bounces back.

1683
01:44:17,150 --> 01:44:18,410
God, I mean, let's hope not.

1684
01:44:18,530 --> 01:44:23,290
It's like, you know, real communism has never been tried.

1685
01:44:23,390 --> 01:44:24,550
We'll get it right this time, guys.

1686
01:44:24,570 --> 01:44:28,250
And I promise it won't end in starvation and mass murder.

1687
01:44:28,530 --> 01:44:29,350
This time it won't.

1688
01:44:29,350 --> 01:44:30,710
We'll get it totally right.

1689
01:44:30,830 --> 01:44:31,710
Don't you worry.

1690
01:44:31,830 --> 01:44:33,130
It's like, man, fuck off.

1691
01:44:33,190 --> 01:44:36,270
Real capitalism's never been tried, you totalitarian twat.

1692
01:44:36,790 --> 01:44:38,650
But I digress.

1693
01:44:39,430 --> 01:44:41,430
Avi, I want to be conscious of your time here.

1694
01:44:41,590 --> 01:44:43,950
The time has flown by with you, as always.

1695
01:44:44,050 --> 01:44:44,930
This was a great rip.

1696
01:44:46,270 --> 01:44:47,970
Where do you want to send folks again?

1697
01:44:48,430 --> 01:44:49,850
I'll link everything in the show notes.

1698
01:44:49,990 --> 01:44:50,210
I'll link.

1699
01:44:51,150 --> 01:44:54,250
But yeah, tell people again for those listening.

1700
01:44:55,170 --> 01:44:55,370
Yeah.

1701
01:44:55,370 --> 01:45:00,190
So if you want to connect with me on Nostra, primal.net slash avi.

1702
01:45:01,370 --> 01:45:09,010
My website is casanostra.ink, C-A-S-A-N-O-S-T-R-A dot I-N-K.

1703
01:45:09,390 --> 01:45:16,110
You'll find all my projects listed there, my book, the sequel that I'm working on, the show, all my podcasts.

1704
01:45:16,610 --> 01:45:18,370
I actually have more than one, by the way, Walker.

1705
01:45:19,370 --> 01:45:25,070
I started an AI podcast as well, two AI podcasts, but we could talk about that some other time.

1706
01:45:25,370 --> 01:45:26,410
But you'll find all of that.

1707
01:45:26,510 --> 01:45:27,650
I'm going to have to have you back on now.

1708
01:45:30,230 --> 01:45:33,850
But you'll find all of that information on Casa Nostra.

1709
01:45:33,930 --> 01:45:36,030
And yeah, you can find me on Primal as well.

1710
01:45:37,110 --> 01:45:37,470
Awesome.

1711
01:45:37,590 --> 01:45:39,430
Well, Avi, it's a pleasure having you on here.

1712
01:45:39,850 --> 01:45:41,870
I wish you all the best with the show.

1713
01:45:41,950 --> 01:45:43,430
I think it's fantastic what you're doing.

1714
01:45:43,610 --> 01:45:45,750
And I'm already looking forward to the next episode.

1715
01:45:45,750 --> 01:45:49,690
The one today, I shouldn't have watched it on an empty stomach because it made me hungry.

1716
01:45:51,390 --> 01:45:52,290
Well, thank you.

1717
01:45:52,370 --> 01:45:53,870
Thank you for the kind words, Walker.

1718
01:45:53,930 --> 01:45:54,890
Always a pleasure.

1719
01:45:55,370 --> 01:45:56,530
chatting with you.

1720
01:45:56,790 --> 01:45:57,770
Maybe our paths will cross

1721
01:45:57,770 --> 01:45:58,690
at the next conference.

1722
01:45:58,850 --> 01:46:00,510
I know we've been missing each other

1723
01:46:00,510 --> 01:46:03,810
at very, well, you've been busy

1724
01:46:03,810 --> 01:46:06,010
for very important reasons

1725
01:46:06,010 --> 01:46:06,730
as a new father.

1726
01:46:07,130 --> 01:46:09,670
But maybe once you're out of that,

1727
01:46:09,790 --> 01:46:10,410
I'm going to start,

1728
01:46:10,510 --> 01:46:11,830
now that I've quit my fiat job,

1729
01:46:12,090 --> 01:46:13,550
I can start traveling again.

1730
01:46:14,170 --> 01:46:15,430
So maybe at the next one.

1731
01:46:16,830 --> 01:46:18,370
I'm going to, I think Paraguay

1732
01:46:18,370 --> 01:46:19,310
is around that time.

1733
01:46:19,850 --> 01:46:20,610
Oh, okay.

1734
01:46:21,610 --> 01:46:21,850
Okay.

1735
01:46:22,010 --> 01:46:22,210
Yeah.

1736
01:46:22,490 --> 01:46:24,350
Well, we'll talk.

1737
01:46:24,350 --> 01:46:27,050
We need to find a way to, uh, we can maybe do this in person.

1738
01:46:27,050 --> 01:46:28,290
That'd be a, that'd be a blast.

1739
01:46:28,490 --> 01:46:28,650
Yeah.

1740
01:46:28,970 --> 01:46:29,290
Oh yeah.

1741
01:46:29,410 --> 01:46:29,870
That'd be good.

1742
01:46:30,090 --> 01:46:30,310
Yeah.

1743
01:46:31,210 --> 01:46:36,110
And thank you to everybody on the live stream as well, uh, who, who joined here on, on Noster.

1744
01:46:36,250 --> 01:46:39,030
And if you're listening to this after the fact and you're wondering what live stream,

1745
01:46:39,230 --> 01:46:41,170
it's probably because you're not on Noster yet.

1746
01:46:41,170 --> 01:46:42,910
So you should go and check it out.

1747
01:46:43,090 --> 01:46:47,810
And, uh, then you too can experience this show live and in color on zap.stream.

1748
01:46:48,630 --> 01:46:49,030
Yeah.

1749
01:46:49,750 --> 01:46:50,130
All right.

1750
01:46:50,550 --> 01:46:51,170
Thanks, man.

1751
01:46:51,470 --> 01:46:52,350
Great talking to you.

1752
01:46:53,070 --> 01:46:53,470
Cheers.

1753
01:46:54,350 --> 01:47:06,790
And that's a wrap on this Bitcoin Talk episode of The Bitcoin Podcast.

1754
01:47:07,410 --> 01:47:11,390
Remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you're watching or listening,

1755
01:47:11,610 --> 01:47:15,690
and share it with your friends, family, and strangers on the internet.

1756
01:47:15,690 --> 01:47:22,390
Find me on Noster at primal.net slash walker and this podcast at primal.net slash titcoin.

1757
01:47:22,390 --> 01:47:30,790
On X, YouTube, and Rumble, just search at Walker America and find this podcast on X and Instagram at Titcoin Podcast.

1758
01:47:31,570 --> 01:47:33,790
Head to the show notes to grab sponsor links.

1759
01:47:33,910 --> 01:47:38,610
Head to substack.com slash at Walker America to get episodes emailed to you.

1760
01:47:38,950 --> 01:47:42,390
And head to Bitcoin Podcast dot net for everything else.

1761
01:47:42,950 --> 01:47:46,510
Bitcoin is scarce, but podcasts are abundant.

1762
01:47:46,510 --> 01:47:52,150
So thank you for spending your scarce time listening to the Bitcoin podcast.

1763
01:47:52,390 --> 01:47:55,170
Until next time, stay free.