At this point, and this is what I've been saying too,
you can't expect life altering change from a system
that depends on this kind of grotesque parasitism to survive.
So I think comment letters, again, they're nice,
but really what we need is just complete reform
of the entire financial system.
And like I've said before, that starts with Bitcoin,
that starts with the money.
If you fix the money,
all these contingent problems downstream of it,
like the shares, naked shares, and FTDs,
and all this bullshit starts to get resolved,
because now you have a real money backing it,
and you can track everything on a public ledger.
There's a massive retail investor base,
and all these people are ready to be orange-pilled, I think.
They're already disillusioned with the financial system.
They're already in consternation or frustration
with the way that the stock has been manipulated
and the way that their own investments
are manipulated and that their savings are dwindling
and inflation is killing them.
And a lot of these people I've been arguing with on Twitter
because they get like 90% of the problem,
they just haven't made that full leap into Bitcoin yet.
They think that Bitcoin plus crypto is the answer,
or no crypto is the answer,
and they should just stack silver eagles.
And I'm like, guys, you're so close.
Like, you know, we're almost there.
And I think him getting there would unite
the MicroShadgy Bitcoin audience and the GameStop audience,
and finally orange-pill millions more people
and provide a strong customer base
for him to sell products to, right, for Bitcoin.
And so I think that he'll make the move here
in a couple months, probably a quarter,
within a quarter or two, but it's not gonna be immediate.
I think that especially after he does that,
the share price will start to skyrocket
and then that's when his optionality will come
in where he can do a pull Michael Saylor and say,
hey, are we gonna start just issuing convertibles
and buying Bitcoin or are we just gonna change
20% of our free cash flow and just buy,
smash by Bitcoin with 20% of the money we make,
or maybe 50%, like why don't we just stack it?
We already have five billion of it,
why don't we just stack even more?
Like all those are possibilities
and the share price could go, you know,
it bonkers if that happens for sure.
Greetings and salutations, my fellow plebs.
My name is Walker and this is The Bitcoin Podcast.
The Bitcoin time chain is 885-616
and the value of one Bitcoin is still one Bitcoin.
Today it is my pleasure to welcome back on the show,
Peruvian Bull.
We got into a bunch of stuff today,
but broadly we discussed GameStop, Bitcoin,
Gold and the Federal Reserve.
We went deep into a bunch of different rabbit holes,
including the GameStop saga, Fiat market manipulation,
why GameStop should buy Bitcoin,
the cartel of bankers known as the Federal Reserve
and what they'll do next.
What the Gold market tells us about
where Bitcoin is heading, Gold price suppression
and whether that can happen to Bitcoin,
how GameStop could change their business models,
be a full-fledged Bitcoin company,
general corruption in financial markets,
why the GameStop apes and Bitcoin maxis are aligned
and a whole lot more.
Before we dive into me, a quick favor
and subscribe to The Bitcoin Podcast,
wherever you're listening and make sure to subscribe
on YouTube or Rumble as well,
just search at Walker America.
And if you find this show valuable,
consider giving it a zap on Noster or a boost on Fountain.
You can find me on Noster at primal.net slash Walker
and this podcast at primal.net slash TIT coin.
Without further ado,
let's get into this Bitcoin talk with Peruvian Bull.
["Piruvian Bull"]
Where do we start?
First of all, welcome back.
Good to see you again, man.
Yeah, no, thanks for having me.
I had a good time coming on back in December with Julian,
but I know we had planned to do a podcast just you and me
because there's so much to talk about.
And especially this week, in the last few weeks
with GameStop and Bitcoin has been absolutely insane.
So I'm excited to talk about it.
No, same here.
And there's a lot I think we can get into.
I also saw like right before we hopped in here,
they're saying that the Epstein files
are coming out today as well.
So I'm like, you know, when it rains and pours,
like Bitcoin, you know, Bitcoin's dipping,
shit's going wild, Epstein files are maybe
going to be released, hopefully like all the names
and not just part of the names, because that would be
honestly like kind of sketchy or somehow if they were like,
yep, here's a subset of the names.
And it's like, well, why are you holding any of them back?
That's kind of weird.
But I don't know, we'll see.
This is totally off the Bitcoin GameStop topic,
but what's your read on that?
Do you think they're going to go like full list?
Here you go, here's everything.
Or is it like, well, some of this is too sensitive
to disclose actually?
I'm a little on the pessimistic side.
I mean, just given, first of all, they
had that photo op with all the conservative ink
influencers, DC, Draeno, and those guys
where they're taking pictures with the binders, which
a lot of people are pointing out on Twitter, that's pretty
inappropriate because these are crimes against kids,
like to take pictures with them.
Like it's your high school yearbook or whatever.
And being gifted this thing, it's like, why are they doing this
rather than just dumping the files in PDF format online
and just saying, OK, everyone, go for it?
So I'm a little more pessimistic that they're
going to cut some names out that are still alive and powerful
enough to influence them.
I'm honestly of the same opinion.
And yeah, it's kind of gross because we're
talking about horrific things that were done to miners.
This is not something you should be using for engagement bait.
Just put this out there publicly, like WikiLeaks style,
dump it all out there, and let people go through it.
Because you know that the army of autists out there
is going to find more than any investigative reporters
or conservative influencers will.
But yeah, we'll see.
I mean, at least it's a start, but I
hope they go all the way with it because otherwise it's just
kind of like, OK, so you're part of the problem too then.
All right.
I don't know.
We'll see.
But OK, on to happier things.
So GameStop.
So I have done, I was not part of this initial GameStop saga.
I jumped on board later on when it had already
done a big run up.
And I was like, I want to get a couple shares just
to be part of this movement.
But you've been kind of on top of this for a very long time.
I know you and Ian Carroll both have been very vocal about this.
Can we take a couple steps back to when
this first came on your radar and just like,
what made you kind of focus on this
is like, this is something that's actually way more important.
This isn't just a meme stock.
This has larger repercussions.
Sure.
So I first was turned on to Wall Street Pets in 2019,
actually.
And I started monitoring the board and seeing
like one of the stocks they were in.
And I kind of liked the informal, fun,
like kind of retail investor shit-posting approach
to finance.
So just made it much more dynamic and interesting.
And in the fall of 2020, I started
seeing the chatter about GameStop,
and especially in December of that year,
because we saw some price action.
It broke out above like $10, which
was a huge line of resistance.
And in the summer of that year, in August,
Ryan Cohen had taken control of, had bought 12% of the shares,
outstanding shares of GameStop, later building up to above 13%.
And he had taken a position on the board.
And so he was basically writing, initially,
he was writing letters to the board,
asking them to make serious changes to GameStop,
saying that the company wasn't at risk of bankruptcy
if they didn't make strategic moves soon.
And then he finally just said, I'm going to take action.
And he poured hundreds of millions of dollars
into GameStop shares and bought a huge stake.
And then he upped his stake over and over again,
and then started taking control of other board positions,
getting more voting rights, and eventually pushing out board
members who were essentially not really
doing their fiduciary duty, not doing their job.
And so that was the initial catalyst for the games,
one of the initial catalyst for the GameStop run,
because his purchase restricted the amount of shares to borrow.
And then his moves on the board and ideas
to rejuvenate this dying quote, unquote, brick and mortar
were indicative of a broader plan to reinvigorate
the entire company and to turn it around, basically
to create this David versus Goliath story
and reimagine what GameStop should be.
And if you're a hedge fund in 2019, 2020,
it did make sense to short GameStop.
GameStop was losing revenue for the last 12 quarters.
They were net income negative.
They were EBITDA negative.
Their average store was losing several hundred thousand dollars
a quarter.
It wasn't a good picture.
And to add on to that, they had $400 million bond
in March of 2021 that was coming due.
So all these short hedge funds began to pile into short positions
and convince other hedge funds to pile into short positions.
And that created this domino effect of the share price
falling, revenues falling, pessimism building, short seller
reports keep coming out shitting on the company.
And it was just this downward spiral of the stock continually
falling.
And then with Ryan Cohen coming in and buying
a huge portion of the shares, that
was the first indicator that something was a foot that
could turn this thing around.
And when we saw the initial spike in January of 2021, which,
again, the GameStop apes, we don't
believe that that was the actual squeeze.
We believe that that was stopped because they turned off
the buy button.
But that initial move gave them enough momentum
to start really working on the fundamentals
of business and start to reimagining things.
And so they were able to kick that $400 million bond due
in March of 2021 down to late June into July.
And so by delaying it by a couple months,
they were able to raise capital that summer
and then pay off the bond completely.
And in the last few years, what they've done
is they've been able to basically,
you could call it operationalize the company.
They've reduced SG&A expense.
They've reduced the amount of stores,
the total store footprint.
They've increased overall per square foot revenue.
And so even though the company is a bit smaller than it was
in 2021, they've mostly gotten rid of the bloat.
And they fired like, I think, 900 different administrator
and manager positions.
So they basically slimmed the company down
by a significant amount to make it profitable.
And in the last few quarters, it has been profitable
on a free cash flow basis.
But the problem that they face now is obviously,
what's next?
Like this summer, they raised $4.6 billion of cash.
They have no more liabilities on their balance sheet
other than what's called a lease hold improvement, which
is basically like a promise to upgrade some of their stores.
So it's not really a bond.
So they're basically debt-free, have a ton of cash.
But we've been in this cycle where the shorts are still
trapped.
And this is per House Financial Services Committee report.
The shorts never fully covered in January of 2021.
They were able to escape the news by freezing the buy button
and essentially kicking the can down the road
with these what we call swaps and total return swap
derivative positions that allowed them to push
FTDs into the future.
And so the problem with the way the modern stock market works
is just like fiat banking.
Everything is on a fractional share basis
or like a promissory basis.
So when you go and buy a share from a broker,
like let's say you go buy Apple shares,
the broker will give you, they might show up in your account
like immediately, right?
But in reality, those shares aren't there.
They have to be delivered by the DTCC.
Now, the market maker has a T plus 3 delivery window,
so they can wait three days to give you the real share.
But the thing is they can use what
are called good in kind or good faith redemptions
to push that forward.
So essentially what that means is like, OK, imagine
that Citadel sells you 100 Apple shares.
And then the DTCC goes to Citadel and you
bought these through Vanguard and DTCC tells Citadel, OK,
we need the 100 shares.
And they're like, well, we don't have the 100 shares,
but we do have an option in Apple.
And that promises us 100 shares.
So that's as good as shares, so you should just
use that to settle our obligations.
So then they say, OK, we'll give you T plus 35.
So we'll give you another 35 days to deliver the real shares.
But because you have this kind of good in kind or almost
like equivalent security, we'll just call it good
and we'll not tell the retail investor that they actually
don't have a real share.
And this game continues on every single stock,
in every single market, basically all across the world,
but especially in the US.
And the naked short positions that they built
amount to trillions and trillions of dollars.
But obviously, these are isolated because this
is a risky move, right?
You're selling shares you do not have.
It's a risky move.
And so the main targets of these,
I guess you'd call them, operations,
are poorly performing companies, right?
If it's a meme stock or if it's a dying retail company
or some sort of like e-commerce company that's gone off,
gone off the cliff and lost revenue,
all these things can contribute to the company essentially
getting on the short seller short list, so to say.
And that causes them to start shorting it aggressively.
And from the research that they found,
like Dr. Suzanne Trimbath, who is a PhD economist,
and she worked at the DTCT, she put out in her book
that retail investors are seven times more
likely to receive a fail to deliver
or basically what's called a phantom share, so a fake share
than an institutional investor.
And small cap and micro caps docs have something like 20X
on a volume weighted basis, the amount of naked shorts
as a large cap.
So basically these hedge funds and these market makers
are saying, okay, we're not really gonna take the risk
with Apple or with Microsoft,
because these are the big boys, they have money,
they could fight against us, right?
And there's other institutions buying
and those guys can see that we're not giving them real shares.
But retail, we don't really care what happens to retail,
we can just give them phantom shares
and they'll never actually call their shares
into their actual broker.
They're just gonna leave them on loan on margin accounts
and that allows them to just put this fake share
in your account and you think it's actually there.
And this problem, by the way,
is not only isolated to GameStop,
it's across the entire market.
There were people writing about this in the early 2000s
on some of the messaging boards
and we've also seen this happen in the treasury market, right?
There's multiple treasury issuances
where they've shorted more than 100% of the bonds
and this is just rehab authentication, right?
They take the bond, they sell it to the market,
then they wanna short a bond, so they borrow another bond
and then they pledge that bond as collateral to somebody else.
That person promises to sell it to somebody else
and it just kind of is like a daisy chain
where everyone thinks that they're holding this collateral
but when you go like open the doors
and look at the DTC's ledger, there's only one bond there
and there's seven people who think that they borrowed it.
And so it's the same issue
and that endemic naked shorting
that was revealed with GameStop because we saw,
we saw the short interest above 140% per FINRA data that weekend
and even before that, in the lead up, we saw that 220
and Ian Carroll even shared a screenshot with me
that was at 330%.
So no one really knows the true short interest of GameStop
but all these meme stocks were shorted into the ground
and it seems that these hedge funds were essentially
coordinating to destroy companies
and there's even some tin foil
which could be believable that there are certain venture
capital funds that were putting management in key positions
to drive the company down.
So there was this very famous post called
bust out schemes, Amazon and Bain Capital
and it was basically analyzing how Bain Capital
and Amazon were working together to destroy retailers
like Toys R Us or Bed Bath and Beyond or Blockbuster
by installing, they would appoint an Amazon VP
of business development and the guy would just load
the company with debt and do nothing about revenue
and then the company would go into bankruptcy
and then these VC funds and the hedge funds could come in
at the bankruptcy court and buy everything cheap.
So it's really like a nasty, nasty system.
Fuck man, this rabbit hole goes so deep
and it's kind of mind blowing that it shouldn't be surprising
but it somehow still is that none of this,
all of the things that you think that you're trading
in the fiat world, they're all just fake.
They are literally just, their numbers on a screen,
there's no way to actually really meaningfully verify them
at least not in real time.
Like you said, you have the option to call it
into your broker and be like, no,
I actually wanna make sure I have these shares, right?
But beyond that, like nobody does that for the most part.
And so most of these shares are just floating out there
being fractionalized over and over again
and none of it's ever like really clearing.
And meanwhile, the guys with like,
Ken Griffiths have said it out with just ungodly amounts
of money are able to just kind of move things
whichever way they want, right?
Like there's really, and again, it's like, well,
we're not gonna go against the,
we're not gonna screw over the big dogs,
we're not gonna screw over our buddies,
we're gonna screw over retail.
And what are they gonna do?
Like, you know, come on,
like you're gonna try and like get a class action
together on us, like that's cute,
you know, we'll, you know, destroy you in court for years
and then, you know, maybe pay a little fine or something.
Like it's honestly just like, it's a,
it's pretty dark when you think about it.
And like seems like there's gotta be some criminal stuff
going on there.
Like that level of collusion can't possibly be legal.
Oh, it's definitely not.
And the thing is the SEC for, you know,
from what we found out very quickly in 2021 was that
the SEC was complicit with all of this.
They will slap fines on the brokers for, you know,
naked short selling, they'll slap fines on the brokers
for a lily using client funds or client shares for,
you know, borrowing or lending,
but they'll just, they'll never arrest anybody.
And so what will happen is, you know, like let's say,
there's one example of Goldman Sachs for 16 years
was using their own customers' shares to lend
and trade their own proprietary accounts.
So Goldman is supposed to be segregated, right?
Like here's their wealth management,
where a rich person wants to put $20 million in the S&P,
and then they have their own trading desk
where they're just trading the firm's capital.
And they were just dipping their hands
into the wealth clients' shares,
borrowing them, using them, trading them,
and then trying to make a profit
and put them back before anybody noticed.
And the fine for that, they had made, you know,
hundreds of millions of dollars,
and they were fined like $12 million for it.
So it's just like a few.
Which is literally nothing.
Like that's a cost of doing business, essentially.
Like that's just not, like they don't even like blink at that.
It's like, okay, here you go, like done.
I mean, that's my, and we see this kind of thing,
like all over the place with the big banks
and investment firms too.
Like there's something we wanted to get into
a little bit later is just like the gold market.
And like there's massive, I mean, it was like Deutsche Bank
and I think HSBC and JP Morgan,
like all got in trouble multiple times
for massive years long, like scandals,
for manipulating, for using things improperly.
Like it's just like this corruption runs so deep.
And it kind of just makes you realize
that if you are a little fish, you know,
you're you or I, even if you have, you know,
as much information as you can have as a pleb,
you're just, you're playing a fixed game.
Like the house is going to win.
They are the house.
Like you're just, like the game is not designed
for you to even have a chance at winning.
Yeah.
And that's, see, that's the irony of what GameStop
like revealed, right?
And their name is also very serendipitous, right?
GameStop, the game is stopping.
And that was, again, I worked in,
I worked in a private equity fintech at the time
and it was so funny cause, you know, everyone,
and a lot of people on the, on my floor,
we're all talking about the GameStop fiasco
and all this stuff.
And I was like sharing with them these charts
and this analysis from, you know, intelligent people
on Reddit or economists or PhDs.
I'm like, look guys, I know you,
I know you shit on these people cause they're
quote unquote dumb retail or whatever,
but what they're saying makes sense.
Like these hedge funds are trading in pictoseconds,
like tens of that a millionth of a second.
And your retail order travels like a hundred times slower.
So what happens is if you,
because of payment for order flow in the United States,
if you submit an order to an exchange,
basically people can snipe your order,
they see it coming, they go buy shares somewhere else
and then they sell them back to you at a tenth of a cent
higher or a hundredth of a cent higher.
And that may not sound like much,
but given that there are trillions,
literally of trades that happen every week,
it adds up to billions and billions and billions
of dollars of revenue for these companies.
And they're literally putting their servers in the exchange
closer physically to the main exchange,
clearing box to fight and they pay money for a shorter court,
because the shorter court means they can front run
their competition that's 10 feet further away
in the server room.
Like that's, this is how insane this competition gets.
And it's really sad because it's all just grift, right?
It's all just different ways to try to scam normal people
out of a couple cents here, a couple cents there,
every single day, hundreds of thousands of times a second.
And it's not productive in any real way
to the real economy.
Yeah, I mean, that's really the sad thing, right?
Is that there is no value created there at all.
Like it is a purely extractive business endeavor.
It is not doing anything of value for the world at large,
like you are not producing anything.
You are literally just trying to figure out
how you can shave seconds off
to be able to shave pennies off and do that
in innumerable number of times to make your profit.
I mean, so do you think where we're at now in this saga?
Because like the mask is somewhat off
because more people are aware of this.
I mean, but like does anything actually
meaningfully change?
Where does GameStop sit in this now?
What do you think the next move is there?
It continues to blow my mind
if there are Bitcoiners out there
who are not yet on Noster seriously, what are you doing?
Just like you shouldn't need to ask permission
to use your money.
You shouldn't need to ask permission to speak freely
or have control of your own account.
But that is exactly what you are doing
if you are still trusting centralized
social media platforms.
You may have seen several high profile Bitcoiners
and friends of mine like Lawrence LaParde
and Lynn Alden more recently,
get their X accounts hacked and then struggle
to work with X support to get those accounts back.
Where did they go to give people updates?
They went to Noster.
On Noster, you can't be censored.
You can't be banned and you can't be de-boosted
for saying words that Mark Zuckerberg
or Elon Musk don't like.
And honestly, the vibes are just better on Noster.
Plus, Noster has Bitcoin payments built in.
So when you post a meme, a spicy hot take
or just a photo of your steak,
people will zap you Bitcoin to show you they like it
and find your content valuable.
And if you are a content creator,
you can start monetizing your work immediately on Noster,
unlike on X, YouTube or literally
any other centralized platform
where you have to hit engagement thresholds
and then KYC yourself.
You can find me on Noster
by going to primal.net slash Walker.
And you can find this podcast on Noster
at primal.net slash TIT coin.
Primal also has a built in Bitcoin wallet.
So you can literally get zapped by people for your posts.
Then go use those sats to buy a coffee
or do whatever you want.
All from the same app.
Search for Primal in the app store.
Go to primal.net or choose any of the hundreds
of other Noster apps that are out there
because you can freely switch between any of them
anytime you want.
So come join the largest Bitcoin circular economy
in the world and start zapping sats on Noster.
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Trusting a centralized exchange to keep your Bitcoin safe.
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So thank you.
Yeah, that's a good question.
So we were really hopeful in 2021
because the retail investor movement was so strong.
We wrote letters to the SEC.
We even got Gary Gansler to do multiple podcasts,
live streams, Twitter spaces with us,
and we were basically telling him about the problems.
And he was playing the devil's advocate
and also playing ignorant, I think, to a certain extent.
And so we were very hopeful that things would change,
but as time ground on,
they would do small things that would maybe
help alleviate the problem marginally,
but it never addressed the real problem.
And the real problem is naked shorting
and fail to deliver.
If you can fail to deliver a stock,
that essentially means you can just print money
because you can sell shares that you don't have.
And then what you do is like I said,
you do this obligation rollover.
So you just go to the, you know, the clearing mechanism,
the DTC and you just tell them,
hey, like, oh, I'm sorry, I don't have the shares today.
I have an option for the shares.
I have a derivative for the shares.
I have a borrow agreement for the shares in 30 days.
Can you just give me 30 days more time?
And then they give you 30 days more time.
And then in 30 days, you just do it again.
You say, oh, actually I have a different option.
So let's just use that.
And so we saw that crisis, right?
That kind of rolling FTD crisis play out.
And that's actually the reason for the spikes is
every time there was a spike in the share price,
it was a spike with the FTDs.
The amount of failed delivers was building up so much
that the central clearing system started to force buys.
So it started to force people out
to net everything to zero.
And that's what caused some of the,
I guess you call violence in the moves.
But the issue was, again, we never got actual regulatory
clarity on banning short selling or banning FTDs
or the market maker exemption
or any of these things that we want.
And at this point, and this is what I've been saying too,
you can't expect like life altering change from a system
that depends on this kind of grotesque parasitism
to survive.
So I think comment letters, again, they're nice,
but really what we need is just complete reform
of the entire financial system.
And like I've said before, that starts with Bitcoin,
that starts with the money.
If you fix the money, all these contingent problems
downstream of it, like the shares, naked shares,
and FTDs and all this bullshit starts to get resolved
because now you have a real money backing it
and you can track everything on a public ledger.
I mean, that's where things get interesting.
So let's talk a little bit about this kind of intersection
right now of GameStop and Bitcoin.
Because Ryan Cohen posted, I forget when this was,
couple weeks ago maybe, a posted a photo with Sailor.
And everybody's like, oh shit, like, okay,
he's sitting on what you said, 4.6 billion in cash.
That's a lot of cash that is melting there.
What do you think the realistic chances are
of Cohen saying, you know what, okay,
like I'm gonna follow the Sailor MicroStrategy playbook,
let's ape into Bitcoin, let's make ourselves
a Bitcoin Treasury company.
I think the chances are actually increasing every day.
So this summer, again, so GameStop was able to raise
4.6 billion dollars this summer, or it was 4.5,
they already had like 100 million cash on hand,
but they were able to raise a huge amount this summer.
And again, they were debt free,
they were just kind of sitting on the cash.
And what I did with several other Bitcoin slash GME people
is we wrote letters to the board recommending
that they buy Bitcoin as part of a,
basically like a modified Sailor strategy.
And they didn't listen, nothing came of it.
We tried to even create a shareholder proposal
that didn't go through.
And so we were just kind of waiting on our hands
and we were like feeling like we're yelling into the void
because Ryan Cohen wasn't listening,
even though we've tagged him, we've created posts,
we've made Twitter threads, it just wasn't enough.
But him, first of all, he's been posting
about Austrian economics for the last few years.
So he's posted memes from Thomas' soul
and he's posted quotes from Mice's.
And so we know that he's like in this same frequency,
he's in this room, but he just is not fully getting it.
And the issue was, I think, game stopped early on.
So right after the initial like sneeze,
or you call it like mini squeeze,
they had raised some capital
and they were no longer overly indebted.
And so they were able to put some money
towards a Web3 marketplace.
And so they built out NFT marketplace,
gaming basically on Immutable,
which was led by Robbie Ferguson.
And they were planning on creating this Web3 Utopia
of using Solana and loop ring as like the settlement layer
for their NFT collection.
And all the games could be bought and sold
on their third party marketplace.
And you could create custom skins.
And everyone was so excited about this.
And unfortunately, of course, like Ben Wehrman
was one of the first people who's a Bitcoiner
to sound the alarm bell.
He's like, guys, this is bullshit.
Like just, they should just be doing Bitcoin.
What are they doing?
And no one listened to him.
And Ryan Cohen spent like $30 million developing this thing.
And then when the NFT boom, you know, turned into a bust,
their revenues collapsed
and it became a complete sink of money.
And they made, they lost a ton of cash.
And so they had to close it down after, you know,
a year and a half in the bear market.
But that was a clear fumble that the company did
in a strategic move that, or strategic blunder
that kind of scared them away from cryptocurrencies.
But we thought we're like,
I hope he understands the difference
between crypto and Bitcoin.
Like I hope he gets that these aren't the same thing.
And I think that that's what's stopped him for so long.
But his, so he met with Saylor
and stock price went up like, you know, 8% popped.
And then the next week there is a CNBC article saying that,
according to sources inside the board
that they're considering buying Bitcoin,
then the stock pumped like 20% in after hours.
And then this week, Ryan Cohen has followed Bitcoin magazine
and Bitcoin, I think it's just Bitcoin, the Twitter handle.
So he's following three companies, three things now,
GameStop and two Bitcoin accounts.
So I think that the, with the momentum that's building,
I think he's starting to finally get it.
I mean, it is sad that it's like, you know,
they almost had to shitcoin and get wrecked
by that before they could emerge as fully toxic Bitcoin only
maximalists.
You wish it weren't the case,
but there are many such cases of this out there.
And I mean, I think it's interesting
because it's like the question is ultimately,
what else do you do with that amount of cash?
What else do you do with $4.6 billion?
Like this was Saylor's problem too, right?
You had a bunch of cash.
It's like, well, we can't just keep sitting on it.
Like we are getting debased.
We're losing purchasing power if we sit on it.
So what can we buy?
Like we can't buy, you know, other securities.
Like we can't have too much of that.
So, okay, oh, here's this Bitcoin thing.
I'm finally gonna pay attention to my buddy, Eric Weiss,
who's been, you know, talking my ear off about it for years
and we'll go all in.
It just seems like for GameStop,
this is the next natural evolution.
And from like a memetic standpoint, like, wow,
this is like two of the, you know,
probably the most powerful, you know, meme stock of all time.
Like basically invented the,
it graded the term meme stock essentially.
And then Bitcoin, which is just the ultimate meme.
And I don't mean that in a meme coin way.
I mean that in like as a meme,
as a way of propagating information.
Like it just kind of seems like a match made in heaven.
I don't know.
Maybe that's also because I am a Bitcoiner,
but like Cohen seems like he's like,
he's pretty close, you know?
He's aligned ideologically at least with like,
you know, sound money.
He's clearly knows that the fiat system,
as it relates to the stock market,
is hopelessly just corrupt.
So it's like, what do you do?
You buy the incorruptible money.
At least that seems like a no brainer to me.
Yeah, I totally agree.
And the funny thing is like, you know, we've seen,
Cohen has tried different ways to escape this like,
you know, naked short like overhang.
That's been basically a cloud over the company, right?
He first they did, you know,
we got the buy button turned off,
then they finally raised up money to pay off the debt.
Then they did a split end in 2022.
They basically issued a dividend
that was in the form of shares.
And all that happened with that is that
they found brokers basically creating fandom shares again.
So like, you know, there were brokers in Germany
where they were supposed to give out 300, you know,
they were given 300,000 shares from the DTCC
to give out as dividends.
And yet from our own research within the Reddit community,
they found that it was like 490,000,
just from the people that they pulled
and they like verified their holdings,
490,000 shares were distributed as a dividend.
And so it was like, where are these shares coming from?
And clearly the broker just creates them,
creates phantom units, and then again,
creates this kicking the can down the road
problem of obligation, obligation settling.
And so they just never actually give you the shares.
And so every time that they've tried to do something,
it doesn't work.
And I've been telling them like, guys,
you will not win the game of the fiat system
within the fiat system.
You can't beat them.
You know, if you do a dividend,
they'll find a way to fuck with it.
If you do a share split,
they'll find a way to fuck with it.
If you do, you know, share recall,
they'll find a way to fuck with it.
You know, Michael Burry was buying
a taxi GameStop back in 2019.
And he noticed that the stock was extremely shorted
and that the, especially the options activity
and the derivatives activity around the stock
was really weird.
And so he tried to call on his shares from his broker,
basically tells broker, okay,
you have the shares in your account at the DTC.
I want to call them in to what's called
the direct register system,
which was created in the late 90s.
And that moves the shares from street name,
which is the name of the broker, to your name.
So it gives you full legal ownership
and full like physical holding of the shares.
You can think of it like self custody.
And he waited for weeks and weeks and calling them.
He's like, guys, I have 1.3 million shares.
This needs to like, you need to tell me where they are.
No, no one, no one, no one, no one.
And finally he got like a third of them in
and then he just gave up and he sold the rest of his position
because he realized he's like, the shares aren't there.
This is too rotten of a system.
And so unfortunately he sold before the squeeze began.
So he didn't really get to participate in that.
But that was endemic.
That was an example of the endemic nature
of this shorting problem.
So I think Ryan Cohen finally realizing like the true path
for this memetic warfare is for a game stop
to be buying Bitcoin and join MicroShoutogy
in this kind of like financial vampire attack
against the very fiat system it exists in.
Yeah, I mean, it would certainly,
I actually did not know that about Michael Burry.
That's kind of fascinating.
So basically he tried his utmost to get his shares
and the shares, they just weren't there.
Like they had a third of them and the rest were just kind of
like, we're having some trouble getting a hold of these.
Like, what do you even say?
That's just so absurd.
Yeah, it's insane.
And that's, I think that's why he sold his investment
because he was just so fed up with the settlement system
because it was ridiculous, right?
And if they'll do that to Michael Burry and a fund manager,
like you don't think they're gonna do that to you
or for your dad in his VaniGOT account?
Like they don't give a shit about you.
They don't want to give you the real shares
because then that starts to expose what they're actually doing.
And this kind of like infinite money printer
that they've almost as bad as the Fed,
but obviously not as bad,
but there's money printer that they've created
within the financial system, within the stock market.
And so, yeah, no, I think like them buying
an incorruptible immutable asset is,
and then even potentially doing a Bitcoin dividend
for their shares is one of the things they could do
to basically squeeze the stock.
And then the brilliance of it,
like I talked about on Marty's show is
you could see them buy Bitcoin, the share price triples,
a bunch of shorts are forced to cover,
then they can, if they wanted to,
they can do an ATM offering into that.
And then they can do it again
and just continually buy more Bitcoin.
The stock shoots up 100%,
sell some shares, buy more Bitcoin,
and then just continue this game,
kind of like what MicroStrategy did,
and have a dual effect of attacking the fiat system
at the same time that they're stacking Bitcoin.
Which would be kind of just like Chef's kiss.
I threw up here on the screen here
from bitcointreasuries.net,
which is a great website for those
who have not been on there.
It's quite fascinating to look at.
I think this is amazing.
So I just ran the number very quick
using whatever we're at right now,
83,000 cockpucks per Bitcoin.
And at $4.6 billion,
if they dumped that into Bitcoin,
that gives them a little over 55,000 Bitcoin.
So this puts them at the, if GameStop did this,
this puts them at the number two spot
for corporate holders of Bitcoin.
Like MicroStrategy is obviously almost there,
just like about to touch half a million coins.
But the next one down, Mara,
like GameStop would literally be 10,000 ahead of them.
Then they'd be light years ahead of Riot.
I think it's amazing that Tesla
is still actually pretty high up there.
All these other Bitcoin miners,
I mean, they'd literally have over 5x the number of Bitcoin
that Coinbase has, which is like a whole another wild thing,
that it's crazy Coinbase has so little Bitcoin,
but we'll save that for a different day.
But like that's kind of wild if you think about it.
That's a massively meaningful amount of coins
that they'd be able to accumulate like that,
and with cash that is already sitting there.
And I mean, I don't know,
that's a pretty incredible strategic move to be able to make
to make yourself the number two corporate holder
of Bitcoin in the world.
Yeah, and think about this,
it would unite the two of the largest retail investor bases
in the world, or probably the two biggest,
because you have the MicroStrategy Bros,
who I've seen on Twitter, they've shit on GameStop,
and I understand if you're not in the space
and you still think that 2020 thesis is valid,
yes, you think GameStop is a dying company.
Now it's not dying, it's no longer on life support,
but it's like, okay, they're only making like 30 million
a quarter, they have no longer have debt,
but there's no more growth thesis, right?
There's no more, it's like, what can they do
with that much money, right?
And people said they can buy a company,
I'm like, well, if you can show me a company
that has a better return than Bitcoin, then sure,
but I don't see one.
And so it just makes sense that that much capital
should be funneled towards a hard asset
that will keep pace or even outperform inflation.
As we're seeing inflation chart just pick up
in the last few months, so just,
it's the perfect hedge, the perfect combination.
Yeah, it's gonna be really interesting
to see what happens to, I mean, first of all, now,
I mean, if GameStop was able to move quickly on this,
now is a pretty nice time for them to be able to do it.
They're getting like a 20% discount basically
on the kind of range that Bitcoin's been
for the past little while,
but it's gonna be really interesting to see
what happens this year just as far as,
the group of shamans that control our money,
the Federal Reserve, like what they decide to do,
what Trump pressures them to do,
because you know that Trump loves green candles,
like Trump is, he loves Doves, hates Hawks,
he wants to see the market do well,
he knows people are happier
when their investments are doing well.
We're still in a fairly, relatively speaking,
tight set of monetary conditions.
Like we saw M2 is starting to go up again,
it was actually decreasing,
like that's, it's another incredible thing to me
is that Bitcoin had this incredible run up over these,
this last little period here,
like over the last year, year plus,
while we were in, had one of the tightest rate hikes
in history, while M2 liquidity
was actually being pulled out of the system,
that's kind of incredible,
because what happens when they turn that faucet back on,
when they warm that printer back up,
things are gonna get really, really interesting.
And I feel like even though their inflation numbers
are coming in hotter than they expect,
shockingly, who knew, even with their completely cooked
CPI metrics, they just can't,
they can't pull enough out to make the inflation
not look bad.
But at a certain point,
I just have the feeling that they're gonna say,
you know what, okay, we've done as much as we can
on inflation, we don't want to reach this
like stagflationary period where we basically,
rate hiked the economy and kept conditions too tight
for so long that we can't have any growth,
but we've also got this high inflation,
like stagflation would be a bad outcome for them.
But I'm curious, where do you see that going?
Do you have any read on what the Fed's moves are
in kind of the coming year,
especially with the new Trump administration?
Of course, they're separate, wink, wink,
but how do you see that playing out?
I think they're gonna try to hold rates high
for as long as possible to fight
the sustainable inflation threat,
but they're gonna have to eventually capitulate
to the Treasury market, right?
Because that's the real elephant in the room.
That's the real third mandate of the Fed,
is Treasury market stability.
And so if there's a crisis,
if there's a problem with the banking system,
if there's a problem with the Treasury market,
they'll throw all caution out the window
in order to save it, even if it's destructive
to the real economy.
And what we've seen the last few years
is an explosion of gross interest expense
above a trillion dollars a year.
We've seen the debt accelerate substantially,
and now we're at what, 37 trillion?
We're expected to hit 40 trillion.
Just in this next year,
we're adding a trillion dollars every 100 days.
That's soon gonna be 90 days,
and then 60 days, and then 30 days.
And so if that debt path continues to accelerate,
the issue that the Fed faces is where do you stuff
all those bonds?
Who's gonna buy the bonds, Lebowski?
And the answer to that question
has historically been banks with Basel III regulation
adjustments, so they made Treasuries HQLA,
and so that all these banks have to load up
on majority Treasuries as part of their position.
And then they said, okay, well,
the banks are all loaded up a lot,
so let's load up the money market funds.
And so in 2014, the SEC made very little requirement
changes to money market funds,
made a bunch of money market funds,
what are called government MMFs,
and so they can only invest in Treasury bills
and Treasury notes, and then they made even more changes,
obviously, to their own liquidity pools,
like the Reverse repo and the TGA,
where in 2020 we saw a Reverse repo start to rise,
and then by 2022 it hit the all-time high
of like 2.4 trillion, and the TGA,
which is a Treasury general account,
which is their spending account, hit like 1.9 trillion.
So they stuff like trillions of dollars in these war chests
that they can use to drain out later,
but it's not on their balance sheet,
so it, or at least not as listed as the same assets
as like just their securities holding,
so they can claim that they're not easing,
even though these two war chests of trillions of dollars
of money are able to be drained.
So they did all these things, right?
They did all these gimmicks, all these moves
to try to get everyone to swallow more Treasuries,
but they're getting to the point where,
the demand, especially on the long end, is falling off,
and so they're having to issue more and more bills
shorter and shorter term, and they're also seeing
a fall off in foreign central banks
and foreign government buying,
and now the only buying is coming from some
private wealth funds overseas,
and then some domestic investors,
but really the only thing that's keeping things afloat
is the fact that they've been shifting issuance so much
to the short end.
If they were keeping the issuance
that they were on the long end,
we'd see the 30 year at like 7% or something.
It'd be insane, and so what they've run into is,
they're kind of at the end of the road,
and that's why I think that they're cutting,
even if they're cutting slowly,
that's why they're cutting,
even with rising inflation numbers, right?
We started this cutting cycle in September,
and I was on a spaces with a lot of other people
after the FOMC meeting, they're all arguing,
where all the finance dividend bros,
and they're all like, well, you know,
the Fed's gonna cut, gonna cut, they're doing this,
and then I just was asking them,
I was like, guys, why?
Can anyone explain to me why they're cutting right now?
Like, there's no recession indicators,
at least on the surface, right?
Inflation in September was moderating,
the unemployment is low,
it's like, why are they cutting?
Like, it doesn't, there's no reason,
and nobody could answer, and then I was like,
I'll answer it, it's because you can't keep rates
at this high with this level of debt to GDP.
And so, whether they want to or not,
they're just gonna be forced to lower and lower,
and again, they've never done a cutting cycle
without doing QE.
So, the likelihood is that by the end of this year,
maybe into next year, at the latest,
they're gonna start to have to do QE again,
and like you said, that just means
that the booster rockets on Bitcoin
are gonna go into overdrive,
and we're gonna see this thing rocket
to the hundreds of thousands,
because we've had this entire bull market
without real easing from any central banks,
just some minor rate cuts and a little bit more liquidity
to keep things alive until they really have to,
you know, let the printers run.
Well, that's the thing, it's like,
there's only a couple of ways out of this,
like one is to start printing again,
because as you said, the interest expense on the debt,
like the debt is becoming unserviceable basically,
like our interest expense is beyond our military budget,
which is massive, and somehow the interest on our debt
is larger than that, like, and I'll just pull up the,
for anyone watching or for folks to see,
like this is the chart of the growth
in our interest expense, interest payments
on the national debt, like, where do you think this goes?
Like, you know, this is where, you know,
Lin Alden would come in with a nothing stops this train meme,
but it's like, so you either have to basically
inflate away that debt burden to make that debt worth less,
as you had said, or you need like a global total war reset,
like, those are kind of your two options,
like, I would prefer the inflationary option,
you know, everything's gonna get more expensive,
however, I think that's preferable to all out war, personally,
maybe, you know, I'm old fashioned in that regard,
but it's like, they're backed into a corner,
and I think they kind of know it,
even, you know, Powell in the, like,
multiple times last year made the commentary
about the fiscal situation, saying,
look, this is unsustainable, like,
that we literally cannot sustain this,
I'm not supposed to get involved in the fiscal side,
but I just want you guys to know it's unsustainable,
like, please pay attention, but it, I mean, then again,
you know, you go back to Lin, it's like,
it's why it's the best meme for this,
it's like, nothing stops this train,
like, it's print or go to war,
and there's not really another option for them,
like, that I think anybody would reasonably suggest
they may have a path to do,
and so it's like, what's the path of least resistance?
Print.
That's where we're going, you know?
Exactly, yeah, I mean, the other option would be, right,
like, it's either revaluation or default, right?
Right.
And the problem with default,
and I've pointed this out to a lot of people,
is like, they don't understand basic accounting,
so the basic accounting principle is A equal to L plus E,
assets equal to liabilities plus equity,
and that holds true across the entire financial system,
and so that means that every single liability,
you know, is someone else's asset in some way,
at least in the financial economy,
and so, like a bank-loaning money to another bank
means it's a liability on, you know,
the borrowers balance sheet,
and it's an asset on the lenders balance sheet, right?
Because now they have a, like,
a future promise of cash flow.
So if you delete, right, let's say,
$10 trillion of federal debt,
you just say, oh, click delete,
like, we're not paying those bonds, bye-bye.
You're deleting 10 trillion of liabilities,
you're also deleting 10 trillion of assets
from someone else's balance sheet,
like baby boomers or some banks or hedge funds
or money market funds or whoever.
So if you do that, you're effectively just
axing the entire financial system anyways,
because it's all fractional reserved
if you get rid of $10 trillion of assets,
like we saw in 2008, you nuke the entire financial system,
and with the fragility that we have now,
like, you couldn't even nuke a couple,
more than a couple trillion before you start to reach
danger zone levels.
And so what they will have to do is, I agree,
is print their way out, and that's what they've done
with basically every single cycle
since the beginning of history of central banks, right?
Hindenburg Research did a research piece on
all the countries that have been above 120%
debt to GDP since 1850.
They found 55 countries.
Of the 55, 54 of their currencies,
so 54 times, they saw either hyperinflation,
stagflation, like basically burning, you know,
slow burning the currency to the ground,
devaluation, default, or war,
and like a total demonization of the currencies,
the currency completely just dies.
And the one exception to that was Japan.
And Japan is obviously currently in their own
slow-motion currency crisis with inflation rising again,
and the yen blowing out 30% in just two years.
And so they're now finally starting to face
the reckoning of their own problems,
but there is truly no way out, you know,
Larry LaParde says, it's just math, like, he's right.
You can't get out of this conundrum,
this is why every fiat currency dies in the end,
because the math just doesn't work for it.
I got a book, nice.
I'm so speaking of Larry's book,
give a plug for him because he is still banned
from his account on X right now, which is insane.
Like, I cannot believe that they are making it so difficult
for him to get back on there.
But if you haven't gotten Larry's book yet,
The Big Print, go and pick up a copy, it is excellent.
And I'm reading it for the audiobook, I'm narrating it.
So, but get his physical book too to support Larry.
And then the audiobook will be out with haste.
But it's like, one of the great things
that he lays out really well in that book is that,
you know, each of these bubbles gets bigger.
And when we don't actually resolve
the underlying issues in the system,
we kick the can down the road,
and there's some short-term pain,
but nothing near as bad as it should be.
And each time that bubble gets bigger
and bigger, the magnitude of the print
needs to increase necessarily.
And so you get to a point where it's like,
like the COVID print made the 08 print look like nothing.
What does, like the next print is gonna make
the COVID print look like nothing.
I don't think most, like the vast majority of people
have wrapped their heads around the fact
that that is coming, like, you know, to say,
but the big print is coming.
And like, are you prepared for that?
Like, are you prepared for that to happen?
And it seems like the gold market seems
to be giving us some signs.
The gold is kind of the canary in the coal mine.
It is analog sound money.
Can you talk about that a little bit?
Cause I know you are far more up on that than I am.
And like, what's going on with like,
a lot of the physical gold redemption as well?
Like, what's shaking out there?
Yeah, sure.
So I wrote, again, I've been writing about macro now
for a couple of years.
And last fall I wrote a piece called,
printer is coming, where I was basically going back
into, you know, last couple of gold cycles
and also Bitcoin and showing that gold historically
front runs moves in global liquidity.
And Bitcoin is much more like coincident with it.
So Bitcoin, if there's like a 10% increase
in global liquidity in a month,
Bitcoin will react very quickly to it.
And obviously Bitcoin's like a leveraged
or a basically like a higher beta form of gold.
So it's more volatile.
So gold goes up 10%, Bitcoin can go up 40%.
You know, and so we see like, you know,
changes in global liquidity very quickly be baked
into the Bitcoin price generally, right?
There was always exceptions.
But what was interesting about gold is that even though
obviously it moves much less on a percentage basis,
it would front run these things.
Because I think this is due to obviously a lot of factors,
but you know, pension funds, hedge funds,
all these guys think they're boomers
and they think in boomer terms.
And so their solution to an increase in global liquidity
that's coming down the pipeline is to buy gold.
And so we saw this in the 2018 run up.
We saw, you know, gold start to peak up, you know,
into the 17, 18, 1900s and then hit 2070
announced in August of 2020.
And then it started retracing.
And everyone asked, why is it retracing?
And I was like, well, I think this is telling us
that there's going to be a taper in a year and a half.
And lo and behold, 12 to 18 months later, March 2022,
they announced the taper.
And then this year, you know, 2024,
a gold market in March starts to go on a run.
And in February and March starts to rise.
And then we saw it obviously, you know,
hitting 2600, 2700 last fall.
And now it's at 2950.
And so what it's signaling is that there's now,
I think a global, you know, indicator that there's
going to be a huge liquidity wave coming in the next,
you know, six to nine months or so.
Because we're about halfway through this.
You know, cycle one, gold started to really move.
And so what that tells me is that not only is global
liquidity coming, but obviously this rush for physicals
is starting to accelerate as well, because all these players
are starting to move into buying more and more physical gold.
They don't trust the LBMA or the BOE to custody their gold.
And so I'll go there next.
In the last, so last month, the COMEX
saw a record 1.9 million ounces of gold that
were settled for delivery.
And for reference, that's about four to five times
the average monthly delivery.
And it was like seven times the prior month delivery quota.
And that freaked the COMEX out, because this has happened
before in 2020 during COVID.
There was a huge amount of physical delivery.
And that forced the COMEX to front run the market,
basically by building up their what are called net eligible
and net allocated ounces.
And so they built up this huge war chest of gold and silver
to basically make sure that they wouldn't be drained
completely.
And we saw after 2020 that number slowly decreased,
decreased, decreased.
They didn't have as much of a war chest.
It was being drained, but there was no huge change in demand,
so they didn't care.
But now what's happened is a group of people
are now basically creating this run on the COMEX.
That's causing COMEX to get worried,
and they are starting to increase their delivery.
So they got 1.9 million ounces drained in January.
They bought 11 million ounces physical
to refill their coffers into front and run anything more.
The problem is that's just like the bank run virus,
how financial contagion works.
If you create a run on one exchange,
and that exchange solves the solution by draining somebody
else, that just moves the problem to the next person.
And so now what's happening is London and the LBMA
is facing a massive run on their gold markets.
And a large part of this from COMEX,
a large part of this also from other entities, central banks,
private investors.
But in the last few weeks, we've seen hundreds of millions
of ounces being drained from the US.
From the LBMA.
And the conditions there have gotten so tight
that the what are called the bullion banks, which are JP
Morgan, Citibank, HSBC, those guys
have started to turn to the Bank of England
to borrow gold to settle their obligations,
because they're panicking.
They don't have the entire gold market is fractally reserved
just like the fiat system.
So they'll sell a bullion bank will take one ounce of physical
gold and sell 100 ounces of paper contract against it.
Because statistically, only 1% or sometimes even less
than that of paper futures are ever called in
for physical delivery.
Everyone just rolls forward in cash,
because no institution wants to take the physical delivery.
And that's because of the fundamental problem
that gold faces, which is the settlement issue.
It's great money in every way, but settlement.
Nobody wants to carry around bars of gold to settle payments.
Nobody wants to flake a bar of gold to pay for their coffees.
So you have to centralize it.
That's its weakness.
And so because of that, the paper markets in London
were leveraged to an insane amount.
And now that the run is beginning,
all these bullion banks are being drained.
The LBMA reported that there's about a billion ounces
of physical gold in London, and 800 million are already
claimed.
So they're already basically getting pulled out.
So they only have 20% of it left.
And that's why they're going to the Bank of England.
And so then we see, again, this daisy chain, like I said,
this financial contagion move.
And so first it was the LBMA that was under pressure
in late January.
And now it's moving to the Bank of England,
because all these bullion banks are like, holy shit,
we need to go get gold.
And the Bank of England has a ton of gold.
So they have a borrow program.
We're going to go borrow gold from the Bank of England.
And now the Bank of England has four to eight week delivery
timelines.
So yeah, it just keeps kicking the can, right?
And I think I've told people before that if you want to own
gold, you only own physical.
Don't own any paper shit, just like with Bitcoin.
Self-custody it.
And don't play any of their paper games,
because you never know if they actually have the gold.
Well, right.
It's like the money in your bank account isn't actually yours.
And it's not actually there.
It's like your paper gold.
It's not actually yours if you don't have possession of it.
And it may or may not be there, but probably not.
And it's like, I mean, so do you think this,
I know Peter Schiff's obviously very happy right now.
He's like, he's really like gold is gold is up,
Bitcoin is down.
He is just like basking in this right now,
like absolutely loving it.
And I'm happy for him.
Honestly, he needs a win after just being so,
I mean, and he's still wrong about Bitcoin.
But at least he gets like a few weeks or a month maybe
where he can gloat and be like, see, I told you guys,
you know, you should have held gold this whole time.
And, you know, but hey, let's, we'll let him have this.
But I mean, if gold is signaling that there is a big print
coming, that there is a, you know, a lot of liquidity
it's about to be injected into the system
based on like your prior experience looking at this,
how, like when do you think this starts getting injected?
Like is this something that's gonna happen
kind of gradually like they're gonna, you know,
try to not just pump the markets too fast or, you know,
obviously nobody can predict any sort of black swan
that might cause them to really need to ramp up,
pumping the money into the system.
But like, how do you see that shaking out?
Do you think gold just kind of continues to chug upwards?
And then, you know, right, like right now,
Bitcoin's down like 20% from where it was kind of range
bound around 100K.
Terrible, where we've crashed down to 83 or $84,000.
The world is over.
But like, do you think Bitcoin starts basically,
people start picking up on what's happening in the gold market?
The weak hands, the short-term holders have been,
you know, they've just sold it a loss.
They, you know, the tourists basically bought their Bitcoin,
sold it a loss, washing them out of the system.
What happens next for the Bitcoin and the gold markets?
Do you think?
Sure. So like I said, you know, given my timeline
of the last three gold cycles,
we've seen gold front run liquidity
by 12 to 18 months on average.
And it varies, it's not perfect,
but 12 to 18 months is the rough heuristic.
So again, if we're starting at March 2024
as our starting timeline of when the gold market
started to really take off,
we're looking at end of this year
into, you know, maybe at the latest next year, right?
So I would, and I would also be on the side
that would say the liquidity will most likely be coming
in a bigger form, you know, it will be a large injection
of liquidity at a single time,
rather than it being petered out a little bit
just because of the nature of how QE works
and how these cycles work is they can't, you know,
they can't keep saying that they're tapering
and holding high rates while doing QE.
And so I think that what's gonna happen is
there's either gonna be a black swan
or they won't even say there's a black swan,
they'll just be like, hey, we have a lot of treasury debt,
no one's buying it, we're not gonna let the federal government
default, so we're restarting QE, that's it.
Like that's the rationale, sorry, inflation's at 7%
or, you know, realized inflation is at 7%, sorry,
that's the headline CPI's at four, we don't care, sorry,
we have to do this to save the country, quote unquote, right?
So-
Well, a question there actually, sorry to interrupt,
but like in the past, the Fed has tried to pull maneuvers
where they're like, no, this isn't QE,
like, you know, don't call it QE, it's not QE,
like we're just doing some fancy things
and we're gonna give them fancy PhD economic names
and whatnot, do you see that as another alternate
where they're like, no, no, no, we're not doing QE,
we're still, we're just being slightly more accommodative
than we were previously, that's all,
it's just an increase in accommodation,
it's not quantitative easing.
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, they could do that, right?
And they've already done that to a large extent,
like I've covered earlier, so they did changes
to the money market funds, they did the Basel III,
like HQLA making treasuries, like the tier one capital asset,
requiring banks to hold treasuries
as a majority of their liquid assets.
And then, you know, we've seen, like I said, Reverse repo,
TGA, those are something called the foreign repo pool,
which is also a liquidity buffer they can use,
they also had the BTFP, which they can restart at any time,
and all those things are, you could kind of call them
like quasi off balance sheet activities that they can do
that aren't QE, but it's just like wink, wink, nod, nod,
like they're adding liquidity,
it's like if global liquidity is rising
and you guys aren't doing QE,
it's like you're basically still doing the same thing,
you know, it's like saying I'm not doing drugs
while injecting heroin, it's like,
oh, this is, you know, medical grade morphine,
it's like, yeah, it's still an opiate, dude,
like it has the same effect, it's like,
it doesn't matter what their, you know,
what their words are, what their lexicon is,
it doesn't, their nomenclature, it doesn't matter,
it's just, okay, who gives a shit of what you call it,
if inflation is rising and liquidity is rising
and Bitcoin and gold are up 30% each month,
it's like, yeah, you guys are fucking doing something,
you know?
Do you think the paper gold market is manipulated,
or I mean, I guess the question is more so,
to what extent do you think the paper gold market
is manipulated?
It's heavily manipulated, and that's been known for years.
If you look at, you know, back in the days
before I was a Bitcoiner, I was super into the gold space.
So I actually worked right out of college
at a, like a retirement fund as an analyst,
and I was covering the gold sector specifically,
and so I was like obsessed with reading all I could
about gold markets, and very quickly I found, you know,
hedge fund managers posting research papers,
showing mathematically how the gold price would be,
would pop on the open and then be depressed
right before a close, like by $20, $30,
like clockwork every single day,
and they were like saying, like, this requires
billions of dollars a capital to move the market that much,
and to continually buy it open, after open,
and then slam it down before a close
so that the price basically looks lower than it really is.
And they're like, the only people we can think of
that would do, that would have the power to do that
are the bullion banks, JPMorgan, Goldman Sachs, HSBC,
and the central banks, like those are the only players
that could be moving the market this much.
And not even to mention that, like we said,
that you don't even have to come up
with some evil conspiracy theory of like,
some conniving central bankers trying to suppress gold,
just structurally, this is the problem of the market.
This is like, any trader, any gold trader will tell you,
oh yeah, this is all settled in cash.
So we know that there's 100 paper futures
for every one ounce of physical gold,
or we know that like, bullion banks, for example,
when they work with a gold producer,
what they'll do is so the gold producer says,
we have a stream of gold, of income,
that we can basically sell to you as cash income,
and then the producer will save cash
and be able to pay their operations,
so they will send the gold to the bullion bank.
Now the issue is the bullion banks,
let's say you're JP Morgan, Mining Services Division,
Mining Banking, you now have an inflow of gold,
of physical gold, and as bankers love to hedge,
so they say, oh well, I have an influx
of 100 million ounces a year of physical gold,
I have to hedge that, so the bullion banks go out
and they short the paper markets,
the equivalent amount or more to make sure
that they're hedged, and what that means structurally,
ironically, is that the more gold,
that gold production increases,
the more shorts build up on the paper markets,
and so that suppresses the price,
and so those things are just structural things that,
again, if you look at it piecemeal, you're like,
oh, that makes sense, yeah, the gold producer says,
they want cash, and the best person to get cash from
is the big bank, because they'll buy a huge amount of gold,
and then if you're the bank trader for gold,
you're like, oh yeah, that makes sense,
I don't want to hedge your position and short it,
but the net effect of all this, again,
is just lower gold prices in paper terms
and suppression of the real price discovery,
and I think, I mean, will the gold market
finally break in London?
I think it'll get very close, but again,
I think these are fiat games, I think they're always gonna
declare a bank moratorium,
declare a freezing of gold withdrawals,
declare some sort of state of emergency,
like they always do, and basically kick the can
down the road, I think the only scenario
which we see everything being forced is something like,
you know, a near revolution, right?
People on the streets with guns saying,
give us back our gold, and then the bankers are finally like,
okay, let's give it to them.
But we better give these guys their gold,
I was just gonna share this quickly,
just because we were mentioning this case earlier,
but, and this is from the DOJ archives,
JP Morgan Chase and Co.
agrees to pay $920 million in connection with schemes
to defraud precious metals and US treasuries markets.
This is where they were spoofing basically,
spoofing trades, and it's like,
this kind of thing is just like,
a lot of the banks are caught for doing this.
A lot of them probably are not, or make, you know,
some of this doesn't get prosecuted by the DOJ,
and I just think it's so, like, again, it's so ridiculous,
it goes back to like the GameStop thing as well,
where it's like, these fiat markets are just completely
corrupt, they are, they're gamed,
so that the house is always gonna win,
and the house is, you know, is the big banks.
And like, you are playing on their game board,
you are playing with their loaded dice,
and like, you kind of know it too,
if you've done a little bit of reading,
like, you know this game is rigged,
and that's where, you know, not to sound cheesy,
but it's like, man, Bitcoin gives me a lot of hope,
because it's like, okay, at least this is something
I know that, you know, doesn't play their fiat game.
I am curious if you think that Bitcoin can be subject
to some of the same sorts of market manipulation
that gold can, or if the fact that, you know,
you can actually, you know,
basically instantly self-custy Bitcoin,
like you can call the bluff if that changes the paradigm,
because that's, you know, the settlement of Bitcoin
is infinitely better than the settlement mechanism for gold,
which is, you know, get a giant armored truck,
and a freighter, and armed guards,
and like, you can't even compare the two,
it's like, tap a couple of buttons,
or like, ship really, really heavy rocks across the world.
Yeah, exactly, and that's what's so difficult about,
again, the gold problem is just the settlement,
it's just, it's, that's, there's an article today
from the Wall Street Journal saying that, you know,
they're filling the cargo containers,
or cargo compartments of commercial airline jets
from London to New York with gold,
because they don't have enough space,
and then they're putting the brinks, you know,
armed guards on the planes, basically saying like,
okay, this is our gold, we're gonna protect it,
and it's so anachronistic to think that in the 21st century,
we're shipping gold over in a plane, or in a boat,
like, you know, with physical guys there,
and of course that's more risky
than just settling on, you know, on the blockchain,
you know, it's, it's, anything could happen,
the plane could crash, there could be a storm,
you know, we could see engine failure,
we've seen so many engine failures,
so many like, you know, crashes recently,
and if it crashed over to the ocean or something,
then the gold could sink to the bottom of the ocean,
and it's almost irretrievable, very difficult to retrieve,
so yeah, I think Bitcoin obviously has that advantage,
that's the, that's the Achilles heel that it solves,
and to answer your question on manipulation,
I think, look, I think anything you put
into the fiat system can be manipulated
to a certain extent, obviously, like,
if you put something, and Dylan LaClaire's
talked about this, like, you, you have futures markets,
inevitably you'll see price dislocations
between the futures market and the spot market,
just because of speculation, just because of hedging,
just because of, you know, net trader shorts
that build up too much on one exchange,
and then people try to arbitrage onto the spot market,
or, you know, some expectation of some future event
that could suppress the price,
or it could collapse the price of Bitcoin, right?
So, all those things could temporarily, you know,
adjust the price, but I think, again,
the genius with Bitcoin is that it's the only asset
in the world that you can safely self-custody
easily and remotely, right?
The problem with all these shares, and all these ETFs,
and all these futures is that you need a broker,
and why do you need a broker?
Because the broker has an account at the DTCC,
and the, or the OCC, like the Options Clearance Corporation,
and those are the central entities with a massive sequel ledger
that just say, okay, you know,
Vanguard has this many shares of Apple, okay,
Fidelity has this many shares, Goldman's wealth,
Private Wealth has this many, you know,
Jane Street has this many, Citadel has this many,
and so they have a giant,
since they have the giant sequel ledger,
and they have approval authority on who enters the ledger,
they can control the players of the game.
And so, even if you think you're playing a fair game
with, you know, Bitcoin, paper futures, you're really not,
because you're using these authorized participants
as your intermediaries to do a trade,
and it's all being cleared by a central entity
that obviously does not have your best interest in mind,
they just care about making money,
and they don't really care about catching fraud,
they don't care about eliminating any waste,
or eliminating any, you know, like, you know,
crime that is happening under their nose.
And so, what you find, obviously, with Bitcoin
is you could see temporary dislocations
in the futures markets,
you could see manipulation,
at least in terms of temporary price movement,
but I think the genius of it is, first of all,
the ability to self-custody,
but also the philosophy of the Bitcoiners, right?
The rampant, like, you know, take no prisoners,
like, give me my fucking Bitcoin or else,
that, I think, will slowly spread to the institutions,
the institutions will realize, like, why are we doing this?
Like, why are we custodying a bunch of, you know,
Bitcoin ETF shares with, you know, BlackRock?
Why?
Like, let's just take control of the physical, that's easy.
Like, we'll hire someone to help us figure it out,
and we'll just create a multi-seg wallet,
and we'll split it into 10 wallets,
and do it safely, and then once you create that protocol,
right, that can spread between every single company,
or every single country, or every single institution,
and so that will allow, you know, rampant self-custody.
And so, and again, even if that doesn't happen, right,
90% of the supply is already mined, over 90%.
Institutions only own, you know, the BlackRock ETF,
and plus the other ETFs own just like, four to 5%.
We see Sailor with, like, right, almost about 5%.
So, like, they're already late to the game.
That's the thing that other people don't realize,
like, they're already, it's already been built,
this thing is already here, it's already kind of impermeable,
it's already a bulletproof tank.
Like, you guys own 10% of it, okay, cool, bro.
Like, so what?
I can still own my Bitcoin, or I can still self-custody it,
and even if you guys fuck with the futures price,
by 10 or 20%, I won't care, because I have my physical,
like my physical Bitcoin, right?
My real Bitcoin in my wallet, so, yeah.
I think that this truly changes the game in the long term,
but I think it just takes time for people to realize
how to self-custody, and then obviously,
it takes time for them to do it.
Yeah, I saw, I think it was River put out a report recently,
that just in the last couple of days,
they were talking about, like, the amount of Bitcoin
that is held by, like, individuals in self-custody,
and it was some, like, it was quite a large amount,
I think, like, 56%, something like that,
which is pretty great, considering just the amount
that is held by exchanges, which is still a very large amount,
but, and there's a lot of people that probably should
call in some of those bluffs, and take that into self-custody,
at least with the more meaningful amount of that,
but it is a pretty incredible thing.
It's like, that we can all call the bluff,
like, we don't need to be Michael Burry,
you know, on the phone for months,
trying to, you know, get our shares given to us.
It's like, no, no, no, just go on your computer,
go on your phone, send it to your self-custody,
and, like, if they don't, if they're,
for some reason, blocking you, that raises red flags.
You get on social media.
Anybody else having this issue?
Oh yeah, I am too.
Oh, it looks like Coinbase or whoever else
doesn't have our Bitcoin.
That's the other beautiful thing,
is that, like, we're, people are too aware now
of the shenanigans that can happen
for them to be able to keep getting away with it,
like, because you can call their bluff very easily,
and if you find that they were bluffing,
they don't actually have your coins, okay.
You've got, oh, actually a means to go and drum up
a lot of social support for your cause,
and to have a lot of people trying to call their bluffs.
So it's a nice thing to have, I would say.
It gives me a lot of hope there.
So I wanna be conscious, we've been running,
I wanna be conscious of your time here.
I know you've had a long one.
You're running the GME Podcast Circuit with Bitcoin.
I love it, but I wanna bring it back
to GameStop maybe a little bit,
and just to close out with, and just kind of,
one of the, I put up that tweet
that really has done some shocking numbers.
I put it up as kind of a joke,
but also, honestly, as I typed it out,
I was like, not a terrible plan,
but this is the cool thing that I think,
I was thinking about GameStop,
and I was like, man, they have these physical locations,
right, that's a powerful thing
to actually still have brick and mortar in this day and age.
It could be seen as a liability,
but that's also, that still has a lot of power.
There's not a lot of brick and mortar left.
They're the only open store
and a lot of strip malls that are completely ripped out
besides that.
And I'm curious if you think,
do you think there's any possibility?
Like let's say Ryan Cohen starts going down
this Bitcoin rabbit hole.
He stacks the $4.6 billion, converts him
into the hardest money that's ever existed, Bitcoin,
and then just throws up some Bitcoin ATMs.
He starts selling Bitcoin hardware wallets in ASICs
and fucking merch, who cares?
Like out of these stores.
Do you think, in addition to games,
like I'm a gamer, I still love games,
nothing wrong with that at all.
But like, to me, this kind of seems like
it could be an incredible turning point.
And it's like, do you, I mean,
that may be a little bit more of a pipe dream,
but what do you see, like first of all,
do you think this is something that GameStop
that Cohen moves on quickly?
Or do you think this is something like,
are we still talking like, you know, a year or two out?
Or is he a guy who's like, clearly he's willing
to make big moves in a short period of time
as he's done in the past.
Does he just pull the trigger and go for this thing?
I think, I mean, I think I'll take the middle ground of that.
He's not gonna either rush it or is he gonna delay it
unnecessarily once he understands
like the value proposition.
So with the crypto, you know,
Blunder, where we did the Web3 marketplace
and poured tens of millions of dollars into it
and then just kind of, you know, pooped itself,
that he had talked about it and had tweeted
and had followed Robbie Ferguson or like,
quote, we tweeted him a few times
and the immutable X and all these people.
And it took him from there, it took him about like six months
to finally get everything in line to pull the trigger
to start building the marketplace.
And so I don't think it's gonna be years.
I also don't think it's gonna happen within the next month,
even though things do look like they're accelerating.
And I hope, I hope he finally gets the board's approval
and can start buying Bitcoin here
before we go back up to 100,000.
But I think if he's gonna be buying Bitcoin,
it's a strategic move, obviously,
with the amount of cash he has on hand,
he's gonna have to do obviously
like a broader Bitcoin game-stop strategy.
And so what you said is exactly right.
Like put up Bitcoin ATMs,
he can sell, they already sell trading cards
that are like collectibles basically,
and you could sell those for Bitcoin easily.
You could create micro transactions
in like an online store using Lightning Network
where if you're playing a game and you're like,
oh, I really want this new skin, only the legends.
Like here's, I need to pay 2,000 sats.
Okay, boom, I want the new skin, 2,000 sats.
You could inerate everything.
Not super easily, but it wouldn't be that hard, right?
He just needs to go out and hire
a couple dozen Lightning developers
and a couple other front end back end game developers
and they could probably do this.
And they definitely, like we said,
they have 4.6 billion in cash.
They have the money for this easily.
So just 50 million of that would probably be enough
to do the whole thing.
But there's a lot of ways he could go about it.
So like we said, he could be selling skins,
he could sell games for Bitcoin,
he could create the Bitcoin reward system
where the more you spend at the store,
you get rewards back in Bitcoin
that you can redeem in the store for games or whatever.
And the benefit, like we said,
is that he has these physical locations,
which are rallying points for his customers,
but he also has a huge online presence, right?
There's a massive retail investor base
and all these people are ready to be orange-pilled, I think.
They're already disillusioned with the financial system.
They're already in consternation or frustration
with the way that the stock has been manipulated
and the way that their own investments are manipulated
and that their savings are dwindling
and inflation is killing them.
And a lot of these people have been arguing with on Twitter
because they get like 90% of the problem,
but they just haven't made that full leap into Bitcoin yet.
They think that Bitcoin plus crypto is the answer
or no crypto is the answer
and they should just stack silver eagles.
And I'm like, guys, you're so close.
Like, we're almost there.
And I think him getting there would unite the,
micro strategy, Bitcoin audience
and the game top audience and finally orange pill,
millions more people and provide a strong customer base
for him to sell products to, right?
For Bitcoin.
And so I think that he'll make the move here
in a couple of months, probably a quarter,
within a quarter or two, but it's not gonna be immediate.
And I think that especially after he does that,
the share price will start to skyrocket
and then that's when his optionality will come
in where he can do a pull Michael Saylor and say,
hey, are we gonna start just issuing convertibles
and buying Bitcoin or are we just gonna change
20% of our free cash flow and just by,
smash by Bitcoin with 20% of the money we make
or maybe 50%, like why don't we just stack it?
We already have 5 billion of it.
Why don't we just stack even more?
Like all those are possibilities
and the share price could go, you know,
bonkers if that happens for sure.
I think that's the thing.
It's like you're already seeing a pretty,
I mean, in my mind, rapid uptick in the number of companies,
like Eric Semler has basically called them, you know,
like zombie companies that are ripe for Bitcoin,
for Bitcoin allocations.
Like, and I don't think GameStop quite falls into that.
Maybe it's something a little bit different,
but a lot of these other companies that are,
you know, nobody's really heard them before
unless you like are really deep in this stuff.
They are kind of just sitting there.
They haven't really moved a lot in a while.
Maybe their share price has been kind of steadily
losing value and it's like, okay, you realize
because now you've seen this again and again,
you start to put Bitcoin in the balance sheet
and investors are paying attention again
and your share does pretty well.
Now, I think there's also gonna be like
even more companies that come in,
maybe with their intention is not to be like
a long-term Bitcoin holder as a company.
Their intention is to juice their stock price
a little bit in the short term
and then kind of see what happens.
Of course you're gonna have that,
but I think for each of those,
you probably also have ones like Semler Scientific
seems to be one that are getting in this
and like stacking aggressively.
And now Semler is like one of the, you know,
largest corporate Bitcoin holders.
Like that's pretty cool.
And I think we're gonna see that trend accelerate.
I think GameStop adopting Bitcoin would certainly like
set that, like be really like the spark
that set that off for a whole nother wave of companies.
And I love your point about if GameStop does this,
that's a huge potential orange-pilling moment
for the massive horde of retail investors out there
who have been disillusioned by the system,
who have seen how it can screw them to be like, wow, okay,
maybe I need to take another look at this Bitcoin thing,
which I either dismissed entirely
or lumped in with crypto or whatever else.
That could be a really powerful thing.
And like in my mind, like the reason I have a podcast
to talk about this magic internet money
is because I want as many people as possible
to know about it.
Like it's not because the, you know,
one extra retail person buying Bitcoin
is going to pump my bags.
It is because I think that this is something
that everybody who doesn't wanna be completely bent over
by the system should hold.
And the more people that get exposure to that,
the more people through whatever channels,
whether it's because President Trump is talking about it more
and launching shitcoins on the side,
or because GameStop buys it.
Like I think that's a net positive thing.
Like the more people that get exposure to it,
I view that as just an overwhelmingly good thing.
So I hope they move forward with it.
And can you imagine the memes?
These two communities of memers, toxic Bitcoin,
psychopathic maximalists and GameStop apes teaming up,
the memes would be off the charts, I think.
Oh yeah, I can imagine.
Dude, like I told you in 2021,
the meme game was incredible.
And still on the GameStop subreddits and Twitter,
the memes are awesome.
And I can just see them doing, you know,
Lord of the Rings, like, you know,
GameStop investors fighting, the stocks at 25.
And then you see the micro strategy.
It's just like Bitcoin retards.
And they're like, yeah, you know,
you could totally, totally see that happening.
And something else I'll mention as a closing thing is
one thing that I've noticed with the GameStop,
you know, like sneeze these,
sort of these like ramps that just rip the stock
into the stratosphere is first of all, like we said,
it seems to be institutions that are forced
to close out their shorts.
It's an FTD basically like close out,
forcing by what's called the Central Continuous Net Settlement,
CNS.
And so that always happens when there's a catalyst.
So the first catalyst was Ryan Cohen buying shares
and getting into the board and starting
to reinvigorate the company.
The next catalyst was them paying off the debt
and the share price, you know, going haywire.
And then the next catalyst was Ron Kitty
coming back last summer.
So again, if they do this, just the rumor
that one board member said maybe they're kind of thinking
about Bitcoin in a potential future scenario,
that shot the stock up 20%.
So if they actually go ahead and smash by,
I don't see any reason why the stock wouldn't rally 80%,
now 100%.
And then again, they can sell into that strength
if they want to or they can issue debt
or they can do, you know, they can sell options,
they can do whatever they want and monetize that volatility
and then just use it to buy more Bitcoin
and then more and more shorts have to cover
and they're essentially using this negative feedback
that had worked against them now
that they can use on their positive
to propel their share price higher
and increase their Bitcoin stack at the same time.
So that's like the genius, I think, of this move
and that's why you also have to plan it carefully, right?
Because, you know, these are big institutions,
they have a lot of lawyers, they have a lot of money,
they have a lot of power.
They will not like having to force their short positions
and then seeing you buy just, you know,
apricely buy Bitcoin with every share you sell.
They're not gonna be happy about that.
So, yeah.
But it would be beautiful.
It would be quite beautiful to see.
Ben, well, I appreciate you coming on here
and ripping about this
because I think it's super fascinating.
I hope that they do it.
I hope that more people pay attention to Bitcoin
that otherwise would not have because of it.
And yeah, honestly, I would love to see
a lot of these big institutional short sellers
just get absolutely wrecked.
Like that's a win right there.
So this is a win-win-win.
Like there's, it's a good thing.
Absolutely, absolutely.
And, you know, I'm hopeful that your tweet
which made into the stratosphere just continues to climb
because this information just needs to get out there.
People need to think about this seriously.
Like it's a meme until it isn't, right?
Like with everything.
Right.
That's well said.
It's like, yeah, this sounds a little bit ridiculous,
but like, does it?
You know, it starts sounding a little bit less ridiculous
when you're like, huh, actually, you know, not a bad plan.
So Ryan Cohen, if you end up listening to this
and you need a couple of advisors on this new,
you know, B-stop rollout, just, you know, let us know.
We'll be happy to come on board and help out a little bit.
At least for, you know, we'll bring the tendies and the memes.
Yeah. And the Bitcoin.
Exactly. Exactly.
Well dude, thanks so much.
Anywhere you want to send folks,
I'll link your notes through your Twitter,
anywhere else you want to point them.
Sure. So I have, yeah, I have a not sure account.
I have Twitter, which is Peruvian underscore bull.
I also have a sub-stack where I write about macro.
I write about finance.
You can find that at dollarngame.substack.com.
You can just Google that.
Or you can go to the link in my bio to find it.
And I also have a YouTube channel,
which is just Peruvian underscore bull.
All right, man.
Well, hey, great catching up with you.
Appreciate your time.
If we may have to have another emergency recording,
if we get some wild news in the next couple of weeks, months,
I'll plan to keep some spots open for you,
just so we can get back on if things start getting wild.
Yes. Let's do that totally.
I'm looking forward to it.
All right, man.
Well, hey, good to see you.
And yeah, I hope we get a chance to talk again soon.
Absolutely. Thanks for having me on.
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